away . away. well, away.- well, good away.— well, good morning and welcome to the— well, good morning and welcome to the camilla— well, good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey show boris.— to the camilla tominey show boris. — to the camilla tominey show core, boris. it's— to the camilla tominey show core, boris. c " core, boris. it's been one of those weekends, hasn't it .7 we're those weekends, hasn't it.7 we're going to go through all of the detail of what has happened to the former prime minister in the last 48 hours. congratulations by you're a man city by the way, if you're a man city fan, i hope you're not feeling too woolly this morning. it's boiling think boiling hot outside. so i think the is to stay the best advice is to stay indoors the show indoors and watch the show because got the best because we have got the best line—up you can line—up of guests you can imagine on the boris saga. sir jacob rees—mogg, as he is now known , key ally, is known, a key boris ally, is going to be talking us through

his resignation and it his resignation and what it means future the means for the future of the conservative party. also conservative party. i'm also going by barry going to be joined by barry gardiner, labour gardiner, the left wing labour mp brent north, who will mp for brent north, who will give us his take. we've give us, us his take. we've already got keir starmer calling for a general election now , so for a general election now, so let's what labour are let's find out what labour are making saga. making of this sorry saga. tobias ellwood, the tory mp for bournemouth east. now you'll know tobias isn't exactly a bofis know tobias isn't exactly a boris fan, so we'll be intrigued to know after he had the whip removed by johnson what he makes of latest psychodrama in the of the latest psychodrama in the tory . and naturally, we're tory party. and naturally, we're going joined by nigel going to be joined by nigel farage, fellow gb news farage, my fellow gb news presenter, president of reform uk, to find out what happens next on the right. and i'm going to be joined by yuri sunak, ukrainian minister of defence, spokesperson for president zelenskyy, about what's going on in particularly, and in kherson particularly, and it's been a bumper weekend generally for blonde politicians. donald trump's former chief of staff, mick mulvaney , is going to be joining mulvaney, is going to be joining me to discuss him me from the us to discuss him being and what means being indicted and what it means for his presidential hopes. let's take through the let's just take you through the front of all. now

front pages, first of all. now as you can imagine, boris, very much dominates. so the sunday telegraph off the headline there is johnson orchestra attack on pm over swindle in the sunday times, goes with slightly more negative take allies abandoned johnson as tory mutiny falls flat at the observer . johnson as tory mutiny falls flat at the observer. furious tories turn against johnson after bias outburst the mail on sunday. so that's when four newspapers in it's all about bofis newspapers in it's all about boris it's war duel for soul of the tories. now the sun on sunday does go with something a little different. marcus loves split about marcus rashford's relationship, having hit the buffers sunday express back to bofis buffers sunday express back to boris electoral slaughter. it reports the sunday mirror. as i mentioned just now , starmer's mentioned just now, starmer's message general election now what a weekend to be discussing the newspapers. and of course we've got the best guest to discuss them because i'm joined now by legendary journalist

michael buerk, presenter of the moral maze all round journalistic supremo . michael, journalistic supremo. michael, i'm sorry that this is going to be heavily boris dominated , but be heavily boris dominated, but it's just the way it needs to be this weekend. and we're headlining our first look at the papers with a tale of two boris's just as the politician polarises the public, so too , he polarises the public, so too, he polarises the public, so too, he polarises the public, so too, he polarises the press . polarises the press. absolutely. if you're polarises the press. - absolutely. if you're looking at the papers— absolutely. if you're looking at the papers ,— absolutely. if you're looking at the papers , te— absolutely. if you're looking at the papers , as you know, rather the papers, as you know, rather tempted— the papers, as you know, rather tempted to— the papers, as you know, rather tempted to ety— the papers, as you know, rather tempted to say that he he does thtte— tempted to say that he he does divide opinion— tempted to say that he he does divide opinion neatly between these— divide opinion neatly between these-the- divide opinion neatly between those-like him - divide opinion neatly between those like him and those who don't like him and these— those who don't like him and these-heter- those who don't like him and those-never met- those who don't like him and those never met him . but those who've never met him. but that— those who've never met him. but that-he— those who've never met him. but that-he thet— those who've never met him. but that-be that would- those who've never met him. but that be that would be that would be that would be a bit that would be that would be a ht..— that would be that would be a htt. hut— that would be that would be a bit-. butlyou're- that would be that would be a bit-. butlyou're if- bit glib. but if you're if yet-te— bit glib. but if you're if you're exactly slightly harsh the— you're exactly slightly harsh andlyou— you're exactly slightly harsh andlyou hete— you're exactly slightly harsh andlyou were to- you're exactly slightly harsh and you were to pick the and if you were to pick up the met— and if you were to pick up the htttlsthtty— and if you were to pick up thei mail-sunday-know, mail on sunday say, you know, i mean, extraordinary stuff. you thew,— mean, extraordinary stuff. you know-tiger— mean, extraordinary stuff. you know, tiger brought down not know, the tiger brought down not just know, the tiger brought down not test-thee— know, the tiger brought down not teetlhtee ,— know, the tiger brought down not thetlhtee , hut— know, the tiger brought down not just-mice , but by— know, the tiger brought down not just mice , but by minuscule just by mice, but by minuscule hete— just by mice, but by minuscule mice, mice, tiny— just by mice, but by minuscule mice, mice, tiny mice, just like thttehet— mice, mice, tiny mice, just like thttehet ethe— mice, mice, tiny mice, just like thatcher says the— mice, mice, tiny mice, just like thatcher says the mail on sunday teeter. — thatcher says the mail on sunday teeter. se— thatcher says the mail on sunday leader. so there— thatcher says the mail on sunday leader. so there are— thatcher says the mail on sunday leader. f leader. so there are certainly not on the fence . certainly not not on the fence. certainly not on the — not on the fence. certainly not on the tene— not on the fence. certainly not on the fence. very,— not on the fence. certainly not on the fence. very, very- tit" ”cit: certainly not on the fence. very, very pro pro hette — on the fence. very, very pro pro hette they-te— on the fence. very, very pro pro boris. they've got— on the fence. very, very pro pro boris. they've got sirjacob tees-hege— boris. they've got sirjacob rees—mogg, who we speaking to yet thew,— rees—mogg, who we speaking to soon, you know, talking about hth— soon, you know, talking about hhh tethe— soon, you know, talking about hhh hehg the— soon, you know, talking about him being the master of the

unexpected— him being the master of the unexpected in— him being the master of the unexpected in a— him being the master of the unexpected in a pole position to tettth— unexpected in a pole position to tettth . — unexpected in a pole position to tettth . h— unexpected in a pole position to tettth . he he— unexpected in a pole position to return . is he in— unexpected in a pole position to return . is he in a— unexpected in a pole position to return . " tzzt" return. is he in a pole position to return? michael i wouldn't have thought— to return? michael i wouldn't have thought so.— to return? michael i wouldn't have thought so. the- ”cw 7 m i i wouldn't have thought so. the tory mps, l, have thought so. the tory mps, i, i have thought so. the tory mps, t t thew— have thought so. the tory mps, i, i know aren't,— have thought so. the tory mps, i, i know aren't, aren't at all teet— i, i know aren't, aren't at all ten eh— i, i know aren't, aren't at all keen on that.— i, i know aren't, aren't at all keen on that. but- i, i know aren't, aren't at all keen on that. but you know, who knows?— keen on that. but you know, who knows? he— keen on that. but you know, who knows? it's all— keen on that. but you know, who knows? it's all rather unexpected- knows? it's all rather unexpected at the moment. but the sheet— unexpected at the moment. but the sunday times,— unexpected at the moment. but the sunday times, on the other hand,— the sunday times, on the other htht, eat— the sunday times, on the other htht, say he— the sunday times, on the other hand, say it's all— the sunday times, on the other hand, say it's all over the nth— hand, say it's all over the little rebellion— hand, say it's all over the little rebellion is not going to happen— little rebellion is not going to happen .— little rebellion is not going to happen . hee— little rebellion is not going to happen . he's not going to have a happen. he's not going to have a comeback— happen. he's not going to have a eemehteh the— happen. he's not going to have a comeback and all— happen. he's not going to have a comeback and all that kind of etttt. — comeback and all that kind of etttt. att— comeback and all that kind of stuff. and there's— comeback and all that kind of stuff. and there's a coruscating theee— stuff. and there's a coruscating hteee thett— stuff. and there's a coruscating piece about him— stuff. and there's a coruscating piece about him by anthony setteh— piece about him by anthony setteh whe— piece about him by anthony seldon, who wrote the book, co—authored_ seldon, who wrote the book, co—authored the _ seldon, who wrote the book, co—authored the book. that's ttght— co—authored the book. that's hght. tehheeh— co—authored the book. that's right. johnson at— co—authored the book. that's right. johnson at number 10. you thew— right. johnson at number 10. you knew ,— right. johnson at number 10. you know , describing— right. johnson at number 10. you know , describing him as surly, know, describing him as surly, untrustworthy _ know, describing him as surly, untrustworthy narcissist who hete— untrustworthy narcissist who mete t— untrustworthy narcissist who made a complete shambles of his the— made a complete shambles of his the there — made a complete shambles of his the there so— made a complete shambles of his time there. so you— made a complete shambles of his time there. so you get these two extttetthttt— time there. so you get these two extraordinary pictures . and i extraordinary pictures. and i thhh— extraordinary pictures. and i thhh tt-e— extraordinary pictures. and i thhh tt-e ._ extraordinary pictures. and i think it's i think it's part of where— think it's i think it's part of where we— think it's i think it's part of where we are— think it's i think it's part of where we are as— think it's i think it's part of where we are as a society now , where we are as a society now, that— where we are as a society now, that there— where we are as a society now, that there isn't— where we are as a society now, that there isn't an— where we are as a society now, that there isn't an in—between hhetet att— that there isn't an in—between anymore. and those people who thhh— anymore. and those people who thhh he-e— anymore. and those people who think he's great— anymore. and those people who think he's great are not going to change— think he's great are not going to change their— think he's great are not going to change their minds in the way that— to change their minds in the way that t— to change their minds in the way that t thhh— to change their minds in the way that i think previous generations might have been, though— generations might have been, though ete— generations might have been, though are they— generations might have been, though are they fewer in number? i though are they fewer in number? t meth— though are they fewer in number?

i mean, we already— though are they fewer in number? i mean, we already know- though are they fewer in number? i mean, we already know and we've for a long time that we've known for a long time that there of boris there are a number of boris haters. his problem there are a number of boris haters. is his problem there are a number of boris haters. is that1is problem there are a number of boris haters. is that theretblem there are a number of boris haters. is that there aren't perhaps is that there aren't quite as many boris supporters as and the likes of sir jacob as he and the likes of sir jacob are out. i as he and the likes of sir jacob are out . i think that's are making out. i think that's the hate— are making out. i think that's the that's the _ are making out. i think that's the that's the - issue - are making out. i think that's the that's the -issue .- at; g i think that's the that's the issue . and the that's the big issue. and t-h — the that's the big issue. and th -the— the that's the big issue. and t-h-the hotte- the that's the big issue. and i'm the polls reflect i'm not sure the polls reflect the— i'm not sure the polls reflect the tettthtt— i'm not sure the polls reflect this terribly well. _ i'm not sure the polls reflect this terribly well. but but how many— this terribly well. but but how many heehte— this terribly well. but but how many people have changed their hhte— many people have changed their hhte thett— many people have changed their minds about boris? because. heettee— minds about boris? because. he teet— minds about boris? because. he took ,— minds about boris? because. because look , he did come across because look, he did come across as th tttttettte— because look, he did come across as an attractive rogue, didn't he 7— as an attractive rogue, didn't he ethe— as an attractive rogue, didn't he ? you know,— as an attractive rogue, didn't he ? you know, and all those dull he? you know, and all those dull hettttetthe— he? you know, and all those dull politicians with— he? you know, and all those dull politicians with their grey ethe— politicians with their grey ettte thet— politicians with their grey suits and, you— politicians with their grey suits and, you know, you knew you— suits and, you know, you knew you teetet— suits and, you know, you knew you teetet et— suits and, you know, you knew you looked at question time or eehethhg— you looked at question time or something and— you looked at question time or something and you knew as soon as yet— something and you knew as soon as yet the— something and you knew as soon as you saw the line—up, you eettt— as you saw the line—up, you could almost— as you saw the line—up, you could almost write , you know could almost write, you know what— could almost write, you know whet-hete— could almost write, you know what-were all- could almost write, you know what were all going say what they were all going to say . vet— what they were all going to say . vet thew,— what they were all going to say . you know, there— what they were all going to say . you know, there something . you know, there was something thteteht— . you know, there was something different-boris,— . you know, there was something different boris, something different about boris, something exetthe— different about boris, something exciting, dangerous . exciting, something dangerous. hee.— exciting, something dangerous. hee-thew,— exciting, something dangerous. hee-thew, t- exciting, something dangerous. yes.-know, i think- exciting, something dangerous. yes. know, i think the yes. but, you know, i think the big hteetteh— yes. but, you know, i think the big queetteh h— yes. but, you know, i think the big question is how far how many heehte— big question is how far how many heehte etu— big question is how far how many heehte etttt ge— big question is how far how many people still go along with that? i people still go along with that? t meth— people still go along with that? i mean, even people that really thet— i mean, even people that really tht hhh — i mean, even people that really tht hhh vett— i mean, even people that really find him very likeable and tttttethe— find him very likeable and attractive as— find him very likeable and attractive as a— find him very likeable and attractive as a political hteeheet— attractive as a political prospect feel- attractive as a political prospect feel let down by what's happened— prospect feel let down by what's happened over— prospect feel let down by what's happened over the _ prospect feel let down by what's happened over the last three teete— happened over the last three teete- — happened over the last three teete- t— happened over the last three years. i think— happened over the last three years. "

the strikes against there's always the strike against him by these— always the strike against him by these tethe— always the strike against him by those people. you— always the strike against him by those people. you know, it's one of those people. you know, it's one et-hettt— those people. you know, it's one of-moral maze— those people. you know, it's one of moral maze things. to of those moral maze things. to what— of those moral maze things. to whet-tees— of those moral maze things. to. what-does-who's what extent does somebody who's thtttetwettht— what extent does somebody who's untrustworthy and _ what extent does somebody who's untrustworthy and faithless and gehettttt— untrustworthy and faithless and generally shambolic in their httttte— generally shambolic in their hhtete the,— generally shambolic in their private life, you _ generally shambolic in their private life, you know, how much ehettt— private life, you know, how much ehettt thet— private life, you know, how much should that reflect— private life, you know, how much should that reflect or affect teet— should that reflect or affect your judgement of them in their tethe— your judgement of them in their hthtte the— your judgement of them in their public life and— your judgement of them in their public life and it'd be interesting— public life and it'd be interesting to know what the tethe— interesting to know what the hthtte hete— interesting to know what the public make of— interesting to know what the public make of make of make of all public make of make of make of at that— public make of make of make of at that . — public make of make of make of all that . well— public make of make of make of all that . well let's— public make of make of make of all that . �*ft�*tzgl public make of make of make of all that . all that. well let's see what keir starmer makes of it all. i mean, naturally , he's using this mean, naturally, he's using this as opportunity twist the as an opportunity to twist the knife he's done knife sunday mirror. he's done an op ed sunak must get backbone and let nation vote yes . and let nation vote yes. starmer calls it a farce, which you— starmer calls it a farce, which you thew— starmer calls it a farce, which you knew ,— starmer calls it a farce, which you knew , et— starmer calls it a farce, which you know , of course he would, you know, of course he would, wettth-t— you know, of course he would, wettth-t he— you know, of course he would, wouldn't he ?_ you know, of course he would, wouldn't he ? would, wouldn't he? wouldn't he? would, wouldn't he? but wouldn't he? would, wouldn't he? hut-the— wouldn't he? would, wouldn't he? but-also calls— wouldn't he? would, wouldn't he? but-also calls for— wouldn't he? would, wouldn't he? but-also calls for an- but he also calls for an immediate— but he also calls for an immediate election and. \ immediate election and. not going— immediate election and. not going to— immediate election and. not going to happene— immediate election and. not going to happen, though, michael. i mean, does michael. i mean, why does he keep this? well, keep on doing this? well, i mean,-nothing- keep on doing this? well, i mean,-nothing else| keep on doing this? well, i. mean,-nothing else to mean, it's got nothing else to eat.— mean, it's got nothing else to eat-he— mean, it's got nothing else to eat-he whet- mean, it's got nothing else to. say.-it's what-do, say. what you it's what you do, hh-t— say. what you it's what you do, hh-t he— say. what you it's what you do, hh-t he he — say. what you it's what you do, hh-t he he tet— say. what you it's what you do, isn't it? do you think it strengthens— isn't it? do you think it strengthens position isn't it? do you think it strengthens-position have strengthens his position to have hete— strengthens his position to have heth-ett— strengthens his position to have boris-outlthe- boris johnson out of the conservative— boris johnson out of the conservative altogether boris johnson out of the- conservative-altogether at conservative party altogether at the-hhttettt- conservative party altogether at the - difficult. say i the moment? difficult to say whet— the moment? difficult to say what strengthens his position or whet— what strengthens his position or that wttt— what strengthens his position or that wttt et— what strengthens his position or what will or would strengthen his what will or would strengthen hh heettteh— what will or would strengthen his position is— what will or would strengthen his position is a— what will or would strengthen his position is a kind of

continuing— his position is a kind of continuing civil war, which a lot continuing civil war, which a tet et— continuing civil war, which a tet et the— continuing civil war, which a lot of the papers— continuing civil war, which a lot of the papers are talking thett— lot of the papers are talking about, particularly the mail on sthtet. — about, particularly the mail on sthtet. att— about, particularly the mail on sthtey. hht ee— about, particularly the mail on sunday. and so on. this is thete-tt— sunday. and so on. this is thete-tt he— sunday. and so on. this is there'll be a— sunday. and so on. this is there'll be a continuing civil wtthh— there'll be a continuing civil war within the _ there'll be a continuing civil war within the tory party, and thet— war within the tory party, and that wttt— war within the tory party, and that will strengthen his heettteh— that will strengthen his position in— that will strengthen his position in many respects. ti; position in many respects. he cat-hect— position in many respects. he can-back a&e- position in many respects. he can-back a&e starmerj can just sit back a&e starmer and just let the tories tear themselves apart. doesn't themselves apart. it doesn't really at really need to say anything at all. might better all. yeah, he might be better advised nothing . let them advised to say nothing. let them do . obviously all the do the work. obviously all the papers are trying to knock this story broke on story forward now. it broke on friday night. that's quite difficult the sundays. difficult for the sundays. they've of they've done analysis of what happened meeting between happened in this meeting between johnson sunak last week and johnson and sunak last week and how all fell apart. there but how it all fell apart. there but obviously looking obviously they're also looking at next. yes, we've at what happens next. yes, we've got observer giving very got the observer giving very different options. there be different options. will there be more public speaking from boris is making great money out of going these different going and doing these different speeches. crack at a speeches. a crack at a by—election. would he run now or will he hold his council and become a general election candidate? before the candidate? a return before the general after general election or after writing a newspaper column, buying telegraph ? if the buying the telegraph? if the observer what's what's your observer asks what's what's your instinct as to what might instinct as to what he might do, there's he there's also a suggestion he might the editor of

might go back as the editor of the spectator, which i doubt is music to nelson's ears music to fraser nelson's ears because well. because he's doing very well. yeah , i don't know. i mean, yeah, i don't know. i mean, i personally don't think he he's liable to go for any of the immediate by elections. you know that that feels i haven't got any special insight into any of that but that, that feels kind of wrong. the telegraph i mean he's obviously going to do the pubuc he's obviously going to do the public speaking. picks up public speaking. he picks up enormous amounts of for money shambling the shambling on and doing the same act but it doing act actually, but doing it doing it well. it's not an it rather well. it's not an either do anyway. either or. he'll do that anyway. he the money. he is he needs the money. he is a great writer. he is a great writer and he's a very entertaining speaker , entertaining public speaker, even if he's kind of a bit of a shtick and a one trick pony. but he gets enormous amounts of money i would have money for that. i would have thought there thought something. there was even going back to the even talk of going back to the spectator. deja spectator. that would be deja vu, wouldn't it? early 2000 political ambition in this political ambition thing in this idea of being the next churchill and cincinnati style and having the cincinnati style comeback. it's about power. htthhttett— comeback. it's about power. ultimately isn't— comeback. it's about power. ultimately isn't-yes,- ii it's about power. ultimately isn't “in; ' t: ultimately isn't it? yes, and it's ultimately isn't it? yes, and he ehett— ultimately isn't it? yes, and it's about what his his critics would say about narcissism. he has to be the centre of vendors.

and, if that is his and, you know, if that is his overriding preoccupy passion, which is critics say that he wants to be talked about. look at today's papers. i know it's the eehte— at today's papers. i know it's the centre of— : i know it's the centre of everything . begum the centre of everything. begum tteh— the centre of everything. begum even when— the centre of everything. begum even when big— the centre of everything. begum even when big things happen and eeehehhet— even when big things happen and sometimes when— even when big things happen and sometimes when marginal things hthheh— sometimes when marginal things hthheh he-e— sometimes when marginal things happen, he's still— sometimes when marginal things happen, he's still on the front pages— happen, he's still on the front pages .— happen, he's still on the front pages . tet,— happen, he's still on the front pages . now, another story on the pages. now, another story on the tent— pages. now, another story on the tteht—tetegtehh- pages. now, another story on the front—telegraph .- pages. now, another story on the front telegraph . and front page of the telegraph. and to front page of the telegraph. and te—te— front page of the telegraph. and te—te the— front page of the telegraph. and te—te the-te- front page of the telegraph. and to_do like-do bbci to be fair, we do like to do bbc etettee— to be fair, we do like to do bbc etettee. ._ to be fair, we do like to do bbc etettee. t-te— to be fair, we do like to do bbc stories. i-to ask- to be fair, we do like to do bbc stories. i-to ask you. stories. i wanted to ask you thett— stories. i wanted to ask you about-michael- stories. i wanted to ask you about michael is this idea about it. michael is this idea of about it. michael is this idea et hm— about it. michael is this idea et thh hatte— about it. michael is this idea of tim davie and— about it. michael is this idea of tim davie and others taking tetteh— of tim davie and others taking action against— of tim davie and others taking action against liberal bias wtthh— action against liberal bias wtthh the— action against liberal bias within the bbc now as a long etththg— within the bbc now as a long etehthg hhc— within the bbc now as a long standing bbc veteran? michael, whet-e— standing bbc veteran? michael, whet-e teet— standing bbc veteran? michael, what's your reaction to that etette — what's your reaction to that etetye wett— what's your reaction to that etetye wett .— what's your reaction to that story? well , you- what's your reaction to that story? �*ft�*tzgl what's your reaction to that story? what's your reaction to that- story? well , you know, i've been story? well, you know, i've been 53 years, you know, working for the bbc and infantry half a century. and the bbc and infantry half a century . and in my experience, century. and in my experience, eettthtt— century. and in my experience, eettthtt h— century. and in my experience, certainly in news— century. and in my experience, certainly in news and- it; q and in my experience, certainly in news and current tttette— certainly in news and current affairs, there— certainly in news and current affairs, there are— certainly in news and current affairs, there are strenuous , affairs, there are strenuous, eeehehhet— affairs, there are strenuous, sometimes painful efforts to be or sometimes painful efforts to be et ethett— sometimes painful efforts to be et etheet te— sometimes painful efforts to be et etheet te he— sometimes painful efforts to be or appear to be in— sometimes painful efforts to be or appear to be in impartial. hut— or appear to be in impartial. hut the— or appear to be in impartial. but the truth— or appear to be in impartial. but the truth is— or appear to be in impartial. but the truth is that the world thew— but the truth is that the world et— but the truth is that the world et thy— but the truth is that the world view of any organisation is the tettt— view of any organisation is the tettt et— view of any organisation is the sum total of the— view of any organisation is the sum total of the world views of the individuals— sum total of the world views of the individuals who work for it the— the individuals who work for it end the—

the individuals who work for it the the heehte— the individuals who work for it and the people who work for the hhc— and the people who work for the hhc ete— and the people who work for the bbc are overwhelmed . hinckley bbc are overwhelmed. hinckley young— bbc are overwhelmed. hinckley young thettehet— bbc are overwhelmed. hinckley young thettehet ,— bbc are overwhelmed. hinckley young metropol , an urban middle young metropol, an urban middle ettee— young metropol, an urban middle ettee atte— young metropol, an urban middle class arts graduates. yeah, and thet— class arts graduates. yeah, and thett wette— class arts graduates. yeah, and their world view— class arts graduates. yeah, and their world view ,_ class arts graduates. yeah, and their world view , their their world view, their collective _ their world view, their collective world view of what is eehte — collective world view of what is eehte etetht— collective world view of what is eehte etetht ,— collective world view of what is centre ground , what is extreme centre ground, what is extreme on centre ground, what is extreme eh etthet— centre ground, what is extreme on either left— centre ground, what is extreme on either left or— centre ground, what is extreme on either left or right, or even eeettt— on either left or right, or even eeettt thhee— on either left or right, or even social things is— on either left or right, or even social things is a— on either left or right, or even social things is a little adrift or social things is a little adrift et perhaps— social things is a little adrift or perhaps even— social things is a little adrift or perhaps even more than a ttttte— or perhaps even more than a little adrift— or perhaps even more than a little adrift from _ or perhaps even more than a little adrift from that of the eethttt— little adrift from that of the eethttt te— little adrift from that of the eethth as t— little adrift from that of the country as a whole. the big queetteh— country as a whole. the big queetteh h— country as a whole. the big question is what— country as a whole. the big question is what you do about question is what do you do about thet— question is what do you do about that e— question is what do you do about that e att— question is what do you do about that ? and here— question is what do you do about that ? and here i'm— question is what do you do about that? and here i'm i'm very ambivalent.— that? and here i'm i'm very ambivalent. you— that? and here i'm i'm very ambivalent. you know, i hate the thet— ambivalent. you know, i hate the ttet et— ambivalent. you know, i hate the ttet et giving— ambivalent. you know, i hate the ttet et giving t— ambivalent. you know, i hate the idea of giving a job— ambivalent. you know, i hate the idea of giving a job to somebody on idea of giving a job to somebody eh thy— idea of giving a job to somebody eh thy teete— idea of giving a job to somebody on any basis other— idea of giving a job to somebody on any basis other than they're the teet— on any basis other than they're the best person— on any basis other than they're the best person for that job etthet— the best person for that job either because _ the best person for that job either because of colour or eettt— either because of colour or sexual orientation or class or theh — sexual orientation or class or theh att— sexual orientation or class or their. and this— sexual orientation or class or their. and this is— sexual orientation or class or their. and this is even trickier for their. and this is even trickier tet thet— their. and this is even trickier for their views,— their. and this is even trickier for their views, their political tt-e— for their views, their political tt-e t— for their views, their political views. it's a really tricky thht. — views. it's a really tricky thhg. h— views. it's a really tricky thing. if there's- views. it's a really tricky thing. �*" g�*tzrtz; 33 views. it's a really tricky thing. �*" 33 thing. if there's a danger of groupthink setting in and there's not enough journalistic scrutiny applied. no, i mean , scrutiny applied. no, i mean, you can look at coronavirus and

the bbc coming in for a lot of stick for being very much project fear and not looking at other angles. yeah, yeah, yeah . other angles. yeah, yeah, yeah. the— other angles. yeah, yeah, yeah. the coronavirus— other angles. yeah, yeah, yeah. the coronavirus thing- other angles. yeah, yeah, yeah. the coronavirus thing ,- 3 yeah, yeah, yeah. the coronavirus thing , i felt the coronavirus thing, i felt a ttttte— the coronavirus thing, i felt a ttttte the— the coronavirus thing, i felt a little the same— the coronavirus thing, i felt a little the same way sometimes, but little the same way sometimes, hut the— little the same way sometimes, but the motivation i felt was heheet— but the motivation i felt was heheet .— but the motivation i felt was was honest . but— but the motivation i felt was was honest . but but there are was honest. but but there are difficulties— was honest. but but there are difficulties when— was honest. but but there are difficulties when you have a lot of difficulties when you have a lot et heehte— difficulties when you have a lot et heehte tteh — difficulties when you have a lot of people from the same background.— of people from the same background. yes. you know, they may— background. yes. you know, they that he— background. yes. you know, they may he tteh — background. yes. you know, they may be from ethnic minorities or they— may be from ethnic minorities or they met— may be from ethnic minorities or they may hete— may be from ethnic minorities or they may have different sexual ettehtttteh— they may have different sexual orientation and— they may have different sexual orientation and so on, but tetttttt— orientation and so on, but tetttttt h— orientation and so on, but actually in class terms, there hh-t— actually in class terms, there hh-t thet— actually in class terms, there isn't that much— actually in class terms, there isn't that much that much vettett— isn't that much that much vehety the— isn't that much that much variety and diversity. and eettthtt— variety and diversity. and eettehty h— variety and diversity. and certainly in this kind of worldview— certainly in this kind of worldview idea . but what do you worldview idea. but what do you do worldview idea. but what do you he thett— worldview idea. but what do you he thett he— worldview idea. but what do you do about it? that's— worldview idea. but what do you do about it? that's the thing. whet— do about it? that's the thing. that tet— do about it? that's the thing. what you have— do about it? that's the thing. what you have to stop, of course, is people appointing heehte— course, is people appointing heehte h— course, is people appointing people in their— course, is people appointing people in their own image, which is people in their own image, which h t— people in their own image, which h t hetttet— people in their own image, which is a natural tendency in any etethhttteh— is a natural tendency in any organisation and maybe even gb hete— organisation and maybe even gb news, mathe— organisation and maybe even gb news, maybe even— organisation and maybe even gb news, maybe even although we'd like news, maybe even although we'd the te— news, maybe even although we'd the te hete— news, maybe even although we'd like to have some— news, maybe even although we'd like to have some diversity of ehhteh— like to have some diversity of ehhteh eh— like to have some diversity of opinion on this— like to have some diversity of opinion on this ,_ like to have some diversity of opinion on this , much as opinion on this, much as eeette— opinion on this, much as eeette savst- opinion on this, much as everyone says, oh, it's right tethhe— everyone says, oh, it's right tethhe-ttt— everyone says, oh, it's right leaning all leaning we leaning, it's all leaning as we tteh — leaning, it's all leaning as we tteh ht— leaning, it's all leaning as we see from my show— leaning, it's all leaning as we see from my show over the next 90 hhttee. — see from my show over the next 90 minutes. -very- see from my show over the next 90 minutes. trig t: ti.

90 minutes. just a very quick onthe mean, the actual scoop 90 minutes. just a very quick onthe day n, the actual scoop 90 minutes. just a very quick onthe day this the actual scoop 90 minutes. just a very quick onthe day this that actual scoop 90 minutes. just a very quick onthe day this that theial scoop 90 minutes. just a very quick onthe day this that the times)p of the day this that the times has on has got the insight team on covid very, very quickly. whip us through it. michael well, the insight us through it. michael well, the hetght teth— us through it. michael well, the insight team on— us through it. michael well, the insight team on in— us through it. michael well, the insight team on in the- g e iii well, the insight team on in the sunday thee— insight team on in the sunday the hete— insight team on in the sunday times have actually done it h— times have actually done it covers 3 or 4— times have actually done it covers 3 or 4 pages. they've tettettt— covers 3 or 4 pages. they've actually done— covers 3 or 4 pages. they've actually done a— covers 3 or 4 pages. they've actually done a lot of stuff on the— actually done a lot of stuff on the coronavirus— actually done a lot of stuff on the coronavirus ._ actually done a lot of stuff on the coronavirus . and i think the the coronavirus. and i think the key the coronavirus. and i think the hey hetht— the coronavirus. and i think the hey heht et— the coronavirus. and i think the hey heht et eh— the coronavirus. and i think the key point of all this is it's hehthe— key point of all this is it's hehtha the— key point of all this is it's pointing the finger ever more ettehety— pointing the finger ever more ettehaty et— pointing the finger ever more strongly at this— pointing the finger ever more strongly at this lab in wuhan as a strongly at this lab in wuhan as t tet— strongly at this lab in wuhan as t tth teth. — strongly at this lab in wuhan as a lab leak. and— strongly at this lab in wuhan as a lab leak. and the key point thett— a lab leak. and the key point thett ht— a lab leak. and the key point thett tt h— a lab leak. and the key point about it is how— a lab leak. and the key point about it is how the research they— about it is how the research they were— about it is how the research they were doing _ about it is how the research they were doing in this lab, it all they were doing in this lab, it at wett— they were doing in this lab, it at went very— they were doing in this lab, it all went very quiet when the chheee— all went very quiet when the chinese military— all went very quiet when the chinese military three got hwewet— chinese military three got involved into _ chinese military three got involved into the research , into involved into the research, into coronaviruses, presumably on a htetethtt— coronaviruses, presumably on a biological warfare— coronaviruses, presumably on a biological warfare sort of hash.— biological warfare sort of hash. ._ biological warfare sort of basis. i mean,- biological warfare sort of basis. i mean, it's a really big,— basis. i mean, it's a really the, ethy— basis. i mean, it's a really big, really important story. and whet— big, really important story. and whet t— big, really important story. and whet t the— big, really important story. and what i find so— big, really important story. and what i find so disappointing is thet— what i find so disappointing is that the— what i find so disappointing is that the papers— what i find so disappointing is that the papers are just full of hete— that the papers are just full of heth, hete— that the papers are just full of boris, boris, boris.— that the papers are just full of boris, boris, boris. and within hete— boris, boris, boris. and within heth, tt-e— boris, boris, boris. and within boris, it's holly— boris, boris, boris. and within boris, it's holly or philip schofield_ boris, it's holly or philip schofield or— boris, it's holly or philip schofield or something, when in tetwtt— schofield or something, when in tetwtt teet— schofield or something, when in actual fact, something really thhetttht— actual fact, something really thhehtht h— actual fact, something really important is in— actual fact, something really important is in there that we hetety— important is in there that we hetety ether—

important is in there that we barely other weekend. : barely other weekend. that would be barely other weekend. that would he the— barely other weekend. that would be the splash of most of the papers i would suggest. michael. michael buerk, thank so much michael buerk, thank you so much for morning . forjoining me this morning. lovely to see you. now i'm delighted that our very delighted to say that our very own harwood sunny own tom harwood is in sunny southampton with the people's panel to tom, lots has happened . absolutely intrigued beyond belief to know what our guests make of boris's resignation and what they'd like me to ask sir jacob. nigel barrie gardner take it away, tom. yes what a week it's it away, tom. yes what a week he heeh— it away, tom. yes what a week he heeh tt-tt— it away, tom. yes what a week it's been. it'll be— e “his what a week it's been. it'll be fascinating to it's been. it'll be fascinating te heat— it's been. it'll be fascinating to hear what— it's been. it'll be fascinating to hear what our— it's been. it'll be fascinating to hear what our panel have to say— to hear what our panel have to say here. — to hear what our panel have to say here. were— to hear what our panel have to say here. we're at— to hear what our panel have to say here. we're at swanwick warhe— say here. we're at swanwick htttht ,— say here. we're at swanwick marina , which— say here. we're at swanwick marina , which is a beautiful marina, which is a beautiful warhe— marina, which is a beautiful htttht het— marina, which is a beautiful marina just near southampton, but marina just near southampton, hwt we-te— marina just near southampton, hwt et— marina just near southampton, but we're at the— marina just near southampton, but we're at the boathouse cafe the— but we're at the boathouse cafe and the— but we're at the boathouse cafe and the general— but we're at the boathouse cafe and the general manager is wttehee— and the general manager is narcisse and— and the general manager is narcisse and narcisse . how is narcisse and narcisse. how is hweheee— narcisse and narcisse. how is hweheee tethe— narcisse and narcisse. how is business going for you right hew— business going for you right ht — business going for you right now? hi tom. _ business going for you right now? hi tom. \t it; g now? hi tom. nice meeting you. so, so far it's been great, especially now with the addition of lobster hatch we of the lobster hatch that we got a couple ago. now all a couple of weeks ago. now all our able to enjoy our customers are able to enjoy some fresh lobster every all weekend it's just weekend long. so it's just amazing. well, thank you so much for having in your for having us here in your

beautiful cafe. and all the best wtth— beautiful cafe. and all the best wtth wtth— beautiful cafe. and all the best with with business— beautiful cafe. and all the best with with business as- beautiful cafe. and all the best with with business as it- tia'tz; and all the best with with business as it goes se— with with business as it goes se tet-e— with with business as it goes on. so let's turn— with with business as it goes on. so let's turn to meet our tenet— on. so let's turn to meet our hthet hew— on. so let's turn to meet our panel now. and— on. so let's turn to meet our panel now. and i— on. so let's turn to meet our panel now. and i suppose boris wttt— panel now. and i suppose boris wttt he— panel now. and i suppose boris will be dominating the conversation- will be dominating the conversation and the big tweetteh— conversation and the big question we'll- conversation and the big question we'll all have is boris tettty— question we'll all have is boris tettty tet— question we'll all have is boris tettty tet the— question we'll all have is boris really for the naughty step? wett— really for the naughty step? well, delighted to introduce the hthet. — well, delighted to introduce the hehet. wew— well, delighted to introduce the panel. now we've— well, delighted to introduce the panel. now we've got emma and hewttt— panel. now we've got emma and hewttt .— panel. now we've got emma and hewttt . ahe— panel. now we've got emma and howard . and let's— panel. now we've got emma and howard . and let's start with you howard. and let's start with you , hewerh— howard. and let's start with you , howard, because— howard. and let's start with you , howard, because we've got some big,— , howard, because we've got some bigt big— , howard, because we've got some the, big three— , howard, because we've got some the, big eh— , howard, because we've got some big, big names on the on on the shew— big, big names on the on on the ehew tetty— big, big names on the on on the show today, including nigel farage— show today, including nigel ttteae the— show today, including nigel farage and jacob rees—mogg . do farage and jacob rees—mogg. do you farage and jacob rees—mogg. do yew hete— farage and jacob rees—mogg. do yet have thy— farage and jacob rees—mogg. do you have any questions for those two:— you have any questions for those two, specifically— you have any questions for those two, specifically ?_ you have any questions for those two, specifically ? me? t: l two, specifically? me? i'd like to ash— two, specifically? me? i'd like to ask nigel, and i've emailed him a few times and asked him why he doesn't get back into the leadership of the reform party because that would give it a lot of a foundation and exposure to the british public, because i feel that what britain needs as they voted in 2019 are more conservative values , which the conservative values, which the tories don't seem to be delivering. they seem to be slightly obe right of left, very

left wing in in their outlook. and i would like to see nigel go get back and put his his name behind the reform party as , as behind the reform party as, as he did with brexit and ukip and hopefully also maybe put a toss that question at jacob rees—mogg and even boris, you know, and we could see something come back that would bring the red wall back from going totally over the tipping over to the left. interesting could they all join teteeeh— interesting could they all join teteeeh he,— interesting could they all join forces? big, big— xtiii;~ite 3 could they all join forces? big, big questions there,— forces? big, big questions there, emma.— forces? big, big questions there, emma. we were talking eetttet— there, emma. we were talking ettttet the— there, emma. we were talking earlier and you— there, emma. we were talking earlier and you had a question tethere— earlier and you had a question heththe tet— earlier and you had a question heththe tet the— earlier and you had a question perhaps for the labour party ethe— perhaps for the labour party ette et— perhaps for the labour party side of things— perhaps for the labour party side of things for barry ettthet— side of things for barry gardiner . _ side of things for barry gardiner. “tit: side of things for barry gardiner . “tit: gardiner. yes, i sort of thinking in terms of angela rayner's vitriolic response to bofis rayner's vitriolic response to boris johnson's resignation in terms of, you know , certain terms of, you know, certain people shouldn't be allowed near politics. now, does that not hht— politics. now, does that not hht et— politics. now, does that not hht et hut— politics. now, does that not hht et hut t— politics. now, does that not kind of put a toxic- e tit? now, does that not kind of put a toxic message e tixi now, does that not kind of put a toxic message out thet— kind of put a toxic message out that hettthe— kind of put a toxic message out that politics isn't— kind of put a toxic message out that politics isn't for ewetyhety- that politics isn't for everybody ?- that politics isn't for everybody ? dodi you know,

everybody? dodi you know, tehehtht— everybody? dodi you know, tehehtha eh— everybody? dodi you know, depending on your your class htehgtewht— depending on your your class heehatewht ,— depending on your your class background , uh,— depending on your your class background , uh, it's a really, background, uh, it's a really, teetty— background, uh, it's a really, really interesting points there. ant— really interesting points there. ant t— really interesting points there. ant t suppose— really interesting points there. and i suppose just— really interesting points there. and i suppose just finally- really interesting points there. and i suppose just finally for the two of you, is there too much focus on boris johnson this weekend ? should there be other weekend? should there be other issues being discussed as well? or is this really a very, very important political question ? important political question? uh, i think there is a little ht— uh, i think there is a little htt tee— uh, i think there is a little bit too much— uh, i think there is a little bit too much emphasis on boris , bit too much emphasis on boris, but bit too much emphasis on boris, hwt he— bit too much emphasis on boris, hwt he hee— bit too much emphasis on boris, but he has made— bit too much emphasis on boris, but he has made a— bit too much emphasis on boris, but he has made a very bold move and hee— but he has made a very bold move and he's obviously— but he has made a very bold move and he's obviously drawing tttehtteh— and he's obviously drawing attention to— and he's obviously drawing attention to himself and maybe expeetht— attention to himself and maybe expeethe te— attention to himself and maybe expecting to have— attention to himself and maybe expecting to have some sort of hewhee— expecting to have some sort of hewhee hteh— expecting to have some sort of hewhee hteh .— expecting to have some sort of bounce back . i— expecting to have some sort of bounce back . i don't know if the bounce back. i don't know if the tettee— bounce back. i don't know if the tettee wette— bounce back. i don't know if the tories would tolerate it, which is tories would tolerate it, which he why— tories would tolerate it, which he why my— tories would tolerate it, which is why my question , you know, is why my question, you know, ehewtth-t— is why my question, you know, ehewtth-t he— is why my question, you know, shouldn't he look— is why my question, you know, shouldn't he look elsewhere ? shouldn't he look elsewhere? att— shouldn't he look elsewhere? ant te— shouldn't he look elsewhere? ant to theme.— shouldn't he look elsewhere? and to emma, final— shouldn't he look elsewhere? and to emma, final word- shouldn't he look elsewhere? and to emma, final word to you . and to emma, final word to you. i mean, likewise there maybe there has been a little bit of an emphasis on boris, but i think boris has incumbent so much of the stories over time that , you know, it's all that, you know, it's all interlinked within within him. so, you know , the covid inquiry so, you know, the covid inquiry , th— so, you know, the covid inquiry , at these— so, you know, the covid inquiry

, all these inquiries that have eehe— , all these inquiries that have gone hetete— , all these inquiries that have gone before these branch stories thet— gone before these branch stories that hete— gone before these branch stories that have come— gone before these branch stories that have come out. so i think thet— that have come out. so i think that he— that have come out. so i think that he he— that have come out. so i think that he is the— that have come out. so i think that he is the nucleus of that . that he is the nucleus of that. ana.— that he is the nucleus of that. the, yew— that he is the nucleus of that. hht, yew thew,— that he is the nucleus of that. and, you know, i— that he is the nucleus of that. and, you know, i think, you hhew— and, you know, i think, you hhew, tt-e— and, you know, i think, you know, it's all— and, you know, i think, you know, it's all kind of come as a crescendo with— know, it's all kind of come as a crescendo with this. _ know, it's all kind of come as a crescendo with this. so we're hhe— crescendo with this. so we're hht et— crescendo with this. so we're kind of analysing not just that, but kind of analysing not just that, hwt hete— kind of analysing not just that, hwt tete et— kind of analysing not just that, but lots of other— kind of analysing not just that, but lots of other extrapolate teeeehe— but lots of other extrapolate lessons along— but lots of other extrapolate lessons along the way. �*ft�*tixl lessons along the way. well, theta.— lessons along the way. well, theta-e- lessons along the way. well, emma, so much. emma, thank you so much. and indeed, so some big indeed, howard, too. so some big questions there. camilla number one, might nigel and indeed jacob join forces in some new political force ? and number two, political force? and number two, to the labour party was angela rayner to vitriol in her response. big questions and really good questions. tom, thank you very much- itititllat d tom, thank you very much to you to the— thank you very much to you to end tethe— thank you very much to you to and emma and— thank you very much to you to and emma and howard there. i ehett— and emma and howard there. i ehttt he— and emma and howard there. i shall be putting— and emma and howard there. i shall be putting them to my tweete— shall be putting them to my tweets-het— shall be putting them to my tweets-test t— shall be putting them to my guests just a moment. don't guests in just a moment. don't forget— guests in just a moment. don't tweet—tel forget, if you want to apply its gb forget, if you want to apply its eh -.eeh — forget, if you want to apply its gb -.com forward - forget, if you want to apply its gb .com forward slash gb news .com forward slash tenet.— gb news .com forward slash tenet-teth— gb news .com forward slash panel. let's bring in sir panel. now let's bring in sir jacob— panel. now let's bring in sir jacob rees—mogg , a key boris jacob rees—mogg, a key boris tehheeh— jacob rees—mogg, a key boris rehheeh thy— jacob rees—mogg, a key boris johnson ally knighted in the teetahttteh— johnson ally knighted in the resignation honours. the mp for wetth— resignation honours. the mp for wetth etet— resignation honours. the mp for north east somerset and of t eh— north east somerset and of course a gb news presenter. ttehteye— course a gb news presenter. ttehttye te— course a gb news presenter. mondays to thursdays , eight till mondays to thursdays, eight till 9 hm,— mondays to thursdays, eight till 9 hm, sh— mondays to thursdays, eight till 9 hm, shtteeh— mondays to thursdays, eight till 9 pm, sirjacob, first mondays to thursdays, eight till 9 pm, sir jacob, first time mondays to thursdays, eight till 9 pm, sirjacob, first time of 9 p.m, sir jacob, first time of he— 9 pm, sir jacob, first time of me addressing— 9 pm, sir jacob, first time of me addressing you with that hehewtet— me addressing you with that honoured term—

me addressing you with that honoured term .— me addressing you with that honoured term . now you've honoured term. now you've wtttteh— honoured term. now you've wtttteh h— honoured term. now you've written in the— honoured term. now you've written in the mail on sunday tweeter— written in the mail on sunday tweeter et— written in the mail on sunday master of the _ written in the mail on sunday master of the unexpired acted in hete— master of the unexpired acted in hete heettteh— master of the unexpired acted in hete heettteh te— master of the unexpired acted in pole position to return as teeter— pole position to return as teetet et— pole position to return as leader of the _ pole position to return as leader of the conservatives as sir leader of the conservatives as he teeeh— leader of the conservatives as sirjacob. honestly leader of the conservatives as sir jacob. honestly is this what you— sir jacob. honestly is this what yet they— sir jacob. honestly is this what you truly believe— sir jacob. honestly is this what you truly believe ? well if you you truly believe? well if you teeh— you truly believe? well if you teeh et— you truly believe? well if you teeh et the — you truly believe? well if you look at the discussions you're hewhe— look at the discussions you're hewhe eht— look at the discussions you're having and what— look at the discussions you're having and what you were asking yeet— having and what you were asking yewt hehetthte— having and what you were asking your panellists about, how come heth— your panellists about, how come boris dominates— your panellists about, how come boris dominates the news, boris tehthetee— boris dominates the news, boris dominates the— boris dominates the news, boris dominates the news because he is eth— dominates the news because he is etttt the— dominates the news because he is still the biggest— dominates the news because he is still the biggest figure in httthh— still the biggest figure in british politics, the most charismatic,— british politics, the most charismatic, the most well known , eht— charismatic, the most well known , eht eehehety— charismatic, the most well known , and somebody who has an ehtttty— , and somebody who has an ehtttty te— , and somebody who has an ability to make— , and somebody who has an ability to make the news on a day— ability to make the news on a hey the— ability to make the news on a hey the tetey. — ability to make the news on a day like today. _ ability to make the news on a day like today. : day like today. but does that make him a candidate to become the next tory leader? i mean, what there's just— itixe (it: :i7 i mean, what there's just something eheet— what there's just something eheet sett— what there's just something about sort of— what there's just something about sort of supporters , about sort of supporters, yeeteeh— about sort of supporters, yourself included, where ewetyhety— yourself included, where everybody else is blamed for heth— everybody else is blamed for boris johnson's— everybody else is blamed for boris johnson's demise , apart boris johnson's demise, apart teeth— boris johnson's demise, apart tteh hete— boris johnson's demise, apart from boris johnson , who probably from boris johnson, who probably teeewee— from boris johnson, who probably teeewee there— from boris johnson, who probably deserves more of— from boris johnson, who probably deserves more of the blame than eyee— deserves more of the blame than ye teeeh— deserves more of the blame than anyone. jacob one— deserves more of the blame than anyone. jacob one always teeewee— anyone. jacob one always deserves blame for one's own tthtehee. — deserves blame for one's own tthtehee. ht— deserves blame for one's own mistakes. it would - deserves blame for one's own mistakes. e : : mistakes. it would be absurd of me to pretend that boris hasn't made mistakes. those a man

called peter wentworth, who in the late 16th century was locked up in the tower for saying in the house of commons, none is without fault. no, not our gracious queen. in the same could be of boris. none is could be said of boris. none is without not without fault. no, not our gracious boris. that that is true of us. but aren't true of all of us. but aren't you true of all of us. but aren't yet wetttet— true of all of us. but aren't you worried about- ixi but aren't you worried about what this ii but aren't you worried about what this is tethe— you worried about what this is tehe te— you worried about what this is now doing to the— you worried about what this is now doing to the conservative party— now doing to the conservative party-90t— now doing to the conservative petty-get the- now doing to the conservative party got the whole of party? you've got the whole of tteet— party? you've got the whole of tteet street— party? you've got the whole of fleet street now— party? you've got the whole of fleet street now obsessing over hete— fleet street now obsessing over heth etteeet— fleet street now obsessing over boris alleged plots . for boris alleged plots. for heeteet— boris alleged plots. for instance. was- boris alleged plots. for instance. was nadine dorries and tteet— instance. was nadine dorries and tteet htehe— instance. was nadine dorries and nigel adams resignations, part of nigel adams resignations, part et ee— nigel adams resignations, part of some coordinated effort to whettthet— of some coordinated effort to undermine rishi_ of some coordinated effort to undermine rishi sunak ? \ttite undermine rishi sunak? not that i'm undermine rishi sunak? not that m et— undermine rishi sunak? not that i'm aware of that— undermine rishi sunak? not that i'm aware of that i've seen gossip that i was thinking of following them. well, look, nobody suggested to me that i should force a by—election and i wouldn't have any desire to do that. so if there were a plot, it's one i'm completely unaware of. as i understand it, both of them were expecting to get peerages and therefore there would have been by elections for them to go to the house of lords . and nadine has wanted to leave

parliament and really since bofis parliament and really since boris stepped down as prime minister . so boris stepped down as prime minister. so the boris stepped down as prime minister . so the fact that she's minister. so the fact that she's going shouldn't really surprise anybody. but going shouldn't really surprise anybody . but at the same time anybody. but at the same time there— anybody. but at the same time thete eeette— anybody. but at the same time there seems to— anybody. but at the same time there seems to be— tit’xt : but at the same time there seems to be suggestions in there seems to be suggestions in the hehete— there seems to be suggestions in the hehete thh— there seems to be suggestions in the papers this morning that more are set to— the papers this morning that more are set to go and if there is more are set to go and if there he hhe— more are set to go and if there is some kind of— more are set to go and if there is some kind of rebellion, it's ttzztet— is some kind of rebellion, it's thztet eet— is some kind of rebellion, it's fizzled out pretty— is some kind of rebellion, it's fizzled out pretty quickly. i mean , you're an advocate for mean, you're an advocate for heth— mean, you're an advocate for heth tehteet— mean, you're an advocate for boris johnson to— mean, you're an advocate for boris johnson to be the next conservative _ boris johnson to be the next conservative party leader, but his conservative party leader, but the-hete— conservative party leader, but his-base, even- conservative party leader, but his base, even within his support base, even within the conservative— his support base, even within the conservative party, is ehttthhe,— the conservative party, is shrinking, isn't it? the conservative party, is shrinking, isn't it ? jacob shrinking, isn't it? jacob i'm ettett— shrinking, isn't it? jacob i'm ettett .— shrinking, isn't it? jacob i'm afraid i think— shrinking, isn't it? jacob i'm afraid i think this— shrinking, isn't it? jacob i'm afraid i think this plot for lots of people to resign is invented . i think two people invented. i think two people decided they wanted to leave parliament, both whom had parliament, both of whom had indicated that desire. all ready. they've just slightly changed the timetable and both of whom were expecting to retire to peerages rather than to the chiltern. hundreds i'm unaware of any plot of this kind. it's speculated often not based on sufficient evidence, but then from the resignation statement , from the resignation statement, we can tell it's bristling with criticism of rishi sunak boris johnson is talking about the conservatives not being

conservative enough. it's not just a resignation— i tiiitag " it's not just a resignation statement, it's just a resignation statement, tt-e e— just a resignation statement, it's a twisting— just a resignation statement, it's a twisting of— just a resignation statement, it's a twisting of the knife in the— it's a twisting of the knife in the the-e— it's a twisting of the knife in the pm's back— it's a twisting of the knife in the pm's back and it's also heth-e— the pm's back and it's also heth-e ew— the pm's back and it's also boris's own party political hteeteeet,— boris's own party political broadcast, isn't- boris's own party political broadcast, isn't it ? how boris's own party political broadcast, isn't it? how is that hethtwt— broadcast, isn't it? how is that hethtwt te— broadcast, isn't it? how is that hethtwt te tety— broadcast, isn't it? how is that helpful to tory unity? less than 18 helpful to tory unity? less than he thetthe— helpful to tory unity? less than 18 months out— helpful to tory unity? less than 18 months out from a general eteettet— 18 months out from a general election when— 18 months out from a general election when you're more than 20 teeth— election when you're more than 20 points behind— election when you're more than 20 points behind in the polls ? 20 points behind in the polls? wett— 20 points behind in the polls? wett .— 20 points behind in the polls? wett t thhh— 20 points behind in the polls? well i think it's— 20 points behind in the polls? well i think it's quite useful for well i think it's quite useful tet the— well i think it's quite useful tet the petty— well i think it's quite useful for the party to— well i think it's quite useful for the party to concentrate on whet— for the party to concentrate on whet tt— for the party to concentrate on whet t h— for the party to concentrate on what it is currently doing. thee— what it is currently doing. the ete— what it is currently doing. there are some— what it is currently doing. there are some bills- what it is currently doing. there are some bills before parliament that will actually be bad for the country at large, let alone for conservative supporters. so there's the hydrogen levy that's going to put up people's energy bills . put up people's energy bills. this is a really silly thing to be doing at a point of high energy prices . this is something energy prices. this is something a conservative government should not doing. there's the not be doing. there's the renters bill will renters reform bill that will make renting more difficult and more . this is not a more expensive. this is not a bill that should before bill that should be before parliament. so boris is saying you things that you should do some things that are conservative is are actually conservative is about , as lynton crosby advised about, as lynton crosby advised david cameron a few years ago, clear the barnacles off the boat so that you can get in a good

position for a general election. that's what the government should be concentrating on and should be concentrating on and should get rid these bills should get rid of these bills that are actually bills that could introduced by the could be introduced by the labour one the labour party. but one of the ettthhthe— labour party. but one of the criticisms of _ labour party. but one of the criticisms of boris- i but one of the criticisms of boris johnson was thet— criticisms of boris johnson was that-conservative. that he wasn't conservative eheeeh— that he wasn't conservative eheweh .— that he wasn't conservative eheweh . t— that he wasn't conservative enough . i mean, he was the prime enough. i mean, he was the prime tthhtet— enough. i mean, he was the prime tthhtet thet— enough. i mean, he was the prime minister that allowed rishi swteh—weetl minister that allowed rishi- sunak_vast amount sunak to spend this vast amount on sunak to spend this vast amount eh twtteweh— sunak to spend this vast amount eh twtteweh .— sunak to spend this vast amount eh furlough . he— sunak to spend this vast amount on furlough . he allowed rishi on furlough. he allowed rishi seheh— on furlough. he allowed rishi seheh te— on furlough. he allowed rishi sunak to so—called get take tehet— sunak to so—called get take taken hostage— sunak to so—called get take taken hostage by the treasury . taken hostage by the treasury. thh— taken hostage by the treasury. the we— taken hostage by the treasury. thh et— taken hostage by the treasury. this was on his— taken hostage by the treasury. this was on his watch. he hetteete— this was on his watch. he instructs you— this was on his watch. he instructs you to - this was on his watch. he instructs you to try and keep hhht— instructs you to try and keep hhht heheh— instructs you to try and keep rishi sunak feet— instructs you to try and keep rishi sunak feet to the flames . rishi sunak feet to the flames. teete— rishi sunak feet to the flames. heete tet— rishi sunak feet to the flames. you're not able— rishi sunak feet to the flames. you're not able to— rishi sunak feet to the flames. you're not able to do that. so ewetythhe— you're not able to do that. so everything that's— you're not able to do that. so everything that's happened over the teet— everything that's happened over the last three _ everything that's happened over the last three years has hehhetet— the last three years has happened under camilla. just a moment — happened under camilla. just a moment he— happened under camilla. just a moment. he did— happened under camilla. just a moment. he did not— happened under camilla. just a moment. he did not he did not instruct me to hold rishi's feet to the fire that is not something boris ever asked me to do. that's what ghittoni raised. and he was in the meeting about heteeehe— and he was in the meeting about increasing taxation— and he was in the meeting about increasing taxation and heteeehe— increasing taxation and increasing corporation tax, whhh— increasing corporation tax, whhh .— increasing corporation tax, which i thought was a mistake. but which i thought was a mistake. het t— which i thought was a mistake. het t we— which i thought was a mistake. but i was never— which i thought was a mistake. but i was never-to- which i thought was a mistake. but i was never-to do- which i thought was a mistake. j but i was never-to do this but i was never asked to do this by . but borisjohnson but i was never asked to do this by . but boris johnson was by boris. but boris johnson was the htee— by boris. but boris johnson was the prime minister— but boris johnson was the prime minister that presided over unprecedented erosion

over this unprecedented erosion of over this unprecedented erosion et ett— over this unprecedented erosion et ettlewt— over this unprecedented erosion of all-our civil— over this unprecedented erosion of all our civil liberties of all of our civil liberties tethe— of all of our civil liberties during cowo— of all of our civil liberties during covid this high during covid over this high sheet,— during covid over this high ehett, high— during covid over this high spend, high tax— during covid over this high spend, high tax breed of conservatives— spend, high tax breed of conservatives that everyone teete— conservatives that everyone teetetet— conservatives that everyone teetetet. — conservatives that everyone loans for. yes.— conservatives that everyone loans for. “cit? t: conservatives that everyone loans for. “4.35 ' t: titi; conservatives that everyone loans for. “cit? ' t: titi; loans for. yes. and twice he's pro—immigration and yet we were told we would have control of our borders. i mean, matt eeetwh— our borders. i mean, matt goodwin says,— our borders. i mean, matt goodwin says, in- i : i mean, matt goodwin says, in fact , mr goodwin says, in fact, mr tehteeh— goodwin says, in fact, mr tehteet h— goodwin says, in fact, mr johnson is now- goodwin says, in fact, mr johnson is now deeply unpopular the— johnson is now deeply unpopular across the country,— johnson is now deeply unpopular across the country, including ethete— across the country, including ettete e— across the country, including etteta e wety— across the country, including among a very large number of htextt— among a very large number of brexit voters— among a very large number of brexit voters .— among a very large number of brexit voters . can— among a very large number of brexit voters . can we not accept brexit voters. can we not accept thet— brexit voters. can we not accept thet whee— brexit voters. can we not accept that we've lost— brexit voters. can we not accept that we've lost jacob rees—mogg 7 that we've lost jacob rees—mogg hwe-te— that we've lost jacob rees—mogg ewe-te going— that we've lost jacob rees—mogg ewe-te tethe te— that we've lost jacob rees—mogg ewe-te tethe te tty— that we've lost jacob rees—mogg ? we're going to try and get him heth.— ? we're going to try and get him heeh. teet— ? we're going to try and get him heeh. thet te— ? we're going to try and get him back. just to take— ? we're going to try and get him back. just to take you through some-pollingt- back. just to take you through some polling, because i some of the polling, because i thhh— some of the polling, because i think-interesting- some of the polling, because i think interesting don't think it's interesting and don't get think it's interesting and don't tet—etweye- think it's interesting and don't tet—etweye e think it's interesting and don't get of_always a think it's interesting and don't get of boris-always a think it's interesting and don't get of boris johnson. ways a think it's interesting and don't get of boris johnson. i've; a fan of boris johnson. i've wttttet— fan of boris johnson. i've written-things- fan of boris johnson. i've written .things him. fan of boris johnson. i've writteihe'slthings him. fan of boris johnson. i've writteihe's done gs him. fan of boris johnson. i've writteihe's done well, him. fan of boris johnson. i've writteihe's done well, i'veiim. when he's done well, i've wtttteh— when he's done well, i've written-things. when he's done well, i've. written-things about when he's done well, i've writtwhen things about when he's done well, i've writtwhen he's things about when he's done well, i've writtwhen he's donetgs about when he's done well, i've writtwhen he's done badly)ut any him when he's done badly as any teettetht— him when he's done badly as any journalist should.— him when he's done badly as any journalist should. but think journalist should. but i think the-et— journalist should. but i think the-eh thh- journalist should. but i think the-on this is- journalist should. but i think the on this is really the polling on this is really hteteethe. — the polling on this is really interesting. for— the polling on this is really interesting. for instance, heeeew— interesting. for instance, yougov have polled people to say , hee— yougov have polled people to say , hee heth— yougov have polled people to say , has boris johnson— yougov have polled people to say , has boris johnson got public street?— , has boris johnson got public ewhhette 6— , has boris johnson got public sweet 6 h— , has boris johnson got public sweet 6 h to— , has boris johnson got public support? 6 in 10 britons, 62% say— support? 6 in 10 britons, 62% eey heth— support? 6 in 10 britons, 62% say boris johnson— support? 6 in 10 britons, 62% say boris johnson is right to resign— say boris johnson is right to teetet ee— say boris johnson is right to teetet ee eh— say boris johnson is right to resign as an mp— say boris johnson is right to resign as an mp . 2019. resign as an mp. 2019. conservative- resign as an mp. 2019. conservative voters are more tweet.— conservative voters are more ttwtet. hete— conservative voters are more divided. 46% said it was the tatt— divided. 46% said it was the tteht eett— divided. 46% said it was the right call. 33%_ divided. 46% said it was the right call. 33% said it was wtete— right call. 33% said it was wtete tet— right call. 33% said it was wrong for him _ right call. 33% said it was wrong for him to resign. then yee—

wrong for him to resign. then ye eet— wrong for him to resign. then ye get 7— wrong for him to resign. then ye get 7 h— wrong for him to resign. then you've got 7 in 10— wrong for him to resign. then you've got 7 in 10 believing thet— you've got 7 in 10 believing thet he— you've got 7 in 10 believing that he committed further hteeehee— that he committed further breaches of— that he committed further breaches of covid rules than these— breaches of covid rules than these he— breaches of covid rules than these he hee— breaches of covid rules than those he has already been investigated— those he has already been investigated and fined for. so thet-e— investigated and fined for. so that's almost— investigated and fined for. so that's almost two thirds of the tethe.— that's almost two thirds of the tethe. h— that's almost two thirds of the public. in fact,— that's almost two thirds of the public. in fact, more than two three— public. in fact, more than two thttte et— public. in fact, more than two thirds of the— public. in fact, more than two thirds of the public thinking thet— thirds of the public thinking. that—investigated that he should be investigated tether— that he should be investigated further-covid— that he should be investigated further covid and 6 in 10 further for covid and 6 in 10 20h,— further for covid and 6 in 10 2019, conservative voters also hettewe— 2019, conservative voters also hettewe thh. — 2019, conservative voters also believe this. we've got two three— believe this. we've got two thttte et— believe this. we've got two thirds of the _ believe this. we've got two thirds of the public, 65% thhhhe— thirds of the public, 65% thinking that— thirds of the public, 65% thinking that johnson knowingly tthtet— thinking that johnson knowingly misled parliament. so my eweettet— misled parliament. so my eweettet te— misled parliament. so my question is, and i'd be interested— question is, and i'd be interested to- question is, and i'd be interested to hear your views, hteeee— interested to hear your views, hteeee te— interested to hear your views, these he get— interested to hear your views, please do get in— interested to hear your views, please do get in touch at gb vtewe— please do get in touch at gb vtewe et— please do get in touch at gb vtewe et eh— please do get in touch at gb views at gb news .com . but are views at gb news .com. but are we et— views at gb news .com. but are we et the— views at gb news .com. but are we et the ett— views at gb news .com. but are we at the end of— views at gb news .com. but are we at the end of the sort of heth— we at the end of the sort of boris johnson— we at the end of the sort of boris johnson rainbow here? you hhew— boris johnson rainbow here? you hhew ;— boris johnson rainbow here? you hhew , het— boris johnson rainbow here? you know , we've had a— boris johnson rainbow here? you know , we've had a look. there know, we've had a look. there tet-t— know, we've had a look. there hh-t e— know, we've had a look. there hh-t e het— know, we've had a look. there hh-t e tet et— know, we've had a look. there isn't a pot of gold,— know, we've had a look. there isn't a pot of gold, so has this guy's— isn't a pot of gold, so has this guys ttee— isn't a pot of gold, so has this guys the h— isn't a pot of gold, so has this guy's time in parliament and hettthe— guy's time in parliament and hettthe ettthty— guy's time in parliament and politics simply come to an end heeewee— politics simply come to an end because actually— politics simply come to an end because actually at the end of the they,— because actually at the end of the they he-e— because actually at the end of the day, he's squandered his eppettettty— the day, he's squandered his opportunity he— the day, he's squandered his opportunity. he had that unprecedented 80 seat majority. he unprecedented 80 seat majority. he teete— unprecedented 80 seat majority. he eeett hete— unprecedented 80 seat majority. he could have done everything wtth— he could have done everything wtth ht.— he could have done everything wtth tt. att— he could have done everything with it. and actually he lost it. with it. and actually he lost t. he— with it. and actually he lost t. he teet— with it. and actually he lost it. he lost his— with it. and actually he lost it. he lost his grip. he trusted the— it. he lost his grip. he trusted the wtete— it. he lost his grip. he trusted the wrong people. i think we've got

the wrong people. i think we've get teeeh— the wrong people. i think we've got jacob rees—mogg back. i thet-e— got jacob rees—mogg back. i mean, that's the— got jacob rees—mogg back. i mean, that's the question we're eehhe— mean, that's the question we're eehhe hete— mean, that's the question we're asking here. -he- mean, that's the question we're asking here. he deserve asking here. does he deserve a hehthet— asking here. does he deserve a political future?— asking here. does he deserve a political future? jacob, lovely asking here. does he deserve a politiceyou ture? jacob, lovely asking here. does he deserve a politiceyou again.acob, lovely asking here. does he deserve a politiceyou again. sorrylovely asking here. does he deserve a politiceyou again. sorry weely asking here. does he deserve a politiceyou again. sorry we lost to see you again. sorry we lost the— to see you again. sorry we lost the-te— to see you again. sorry we lost the-te yee.— to see you again. sorry we lost the-te yet. we— to see you again. sorry we lost the to you. we were just the line to you. we were just tethhe— the line to you. we were just tethhe-hethtel the line to you. we were just talking polling and talking about the polling and i'm talking about the polling and t-tt—eeteehy- talking about the polling and. i'm _actually become i'm saying he's actually become tees—hh— i'm saying he's actually become heee—hh ew- i'm saying he's actually become less—his own brexit less popular with his own brexit eeteewettwe— less popular with his own brexit conservative supporters because he-e— conservative supporters because the eewettetet— conservative supporters because he's squandered his opportunities. jacob i think the teeth— opportunities. jacob i think the heht heth— opportunities. jacob i think the point boris made— opportunities. jacob i think the point boris made in his letter, his point boris made in his letter, the eeeey— point boris made in his letter, the eeeey wee— point boris made in his letter, his essay was that when he left ethe— his essay was that when he left ethee, the — his essay was that when he left office, the tories— his essay was that when he left office, the tories were a 4 or hh— office, the tories were a 4 or the hehht— office, the tories were a 4 or 5% behind in— office, the tories were a 4 or 5% behind in the— office, the tories were a 4 or 5% behind in the opinion polls ett— 5% behind in the opinion polls end he— 5% behind in the opinion polls end the new— 5% behind in the opinion polls and it's now much bigger than thet. — and it's now much bigger than thet. hte— and it's now much bigger than thet. and he— and it's now much bigger than that. and he was— and it's now much bigger than that. ' t: that. and he was able to show that. and he was able to show that he was an election winner in 2019. i mean , if he were in 2019. i mean, if he were leader, different things would be happening. and there are arguments about the retained eu law bill, the failure to deliver on that, which had boris been prime minister, we would have carried and therefore carried through and therefore brexit supporters would have seen more of the fruits of brexit and we've seen many already including the 191 already, including the 191 billion that we've saved by not being part of the covid recovery plan european union. so plan of the european union. so we seeing them . but there we are seeing them. but there would been more boris would have been more had boris

been does he been in charge. when does he eee-e— been in charge. when does he come-as-conservative come back as the conservative lure..— come back as the conservative leader,-predict- come back as the conservative leader,-predict in- come back as the conservative leader, predict in this leader, as you predict in this 0p.f0r_ leader, as you predict in this ehltet the— leader, as you predict in this op.for the mail- leader, as you predict in this op for the mail on sunday, op ed for the mail on sunday, hetete— op ed for the mail on sunday, before—election. op ed for the mail on sunday, before—election or before the general election or ettee?— before the general election or ettee-h— before the general election or after?-in-seat?- before the general election or after?-in-seat? i before the general election ori after?-in-seat? no, before the general election or- after?-in-seat? no, no, after? and in what seat? no, no, i, i after? and in what seat? no, no, t. t wette— after? and in what seat? no, no, t. t weett he— after? and in what seat? no, no, i, i would be clear,— after? and in what seat? no, no, i, i would be clear, as i have been before , that rishi sunak been before, that rishi sunak must remain the leader of the party until the general election . i think the conservative party to leader again would be to change leader again would be folly. i am looking at some indeterminate future indeterminate date in the future when rishi's has grey when rishi's hair has gone grey and he decides to retire and bods and he decides to retire and boris comes back on his charger to save the nation. well, you say to save the nation. well, you eey thet,— to save the nation. well, you eey thet, het— to save the nation. well, you say that, but boris- " well, you say that, but boris johnson's htehte— say that, but boris johnson's htette het— say that, but boris johnson's blonde hair will— say that, but boris johnson's blonde hair will go grey much sooner-sunaks- blonde hair will go grey much sooner-sunaks .- blonde hair will go grey much sooner-sunaks. l blonde hair will go grey much. sooner-sunaks . you sooner than rishi sunaks. you never know . look— sooner than rishi sunaks. you never know . look at- sooner than rishi sunaks. you never know . look at stanley, who never know. look at stanley, who remains looking amazingly young at 80, so you never know who will look younger when now . do will look younger when now. do you have any cc ;ti; i do you have any embarrassment at all you have any embarrassment at eh ehewt— you have any embarrassment at all about featuring in these teetetetteh— all about featuring in these resignation honours when they're teeetthet — resignation honours when they're teeetthet-wety- resignation honours when they're described very cronyist described as being very cronyist thet— described as being very cronyist thet tte— described as being very cronyist thet tt-e hhe— described as being very cronyist that it's kind of,— described as being very cronyist that it's kind of, you know, teweete— that it's kind of, you know, favours for— that it's kind of, you know, favours for mates ? are you favours for mates? are you teeewhe— favours for mates? are you teeewhe et— favours for mates? are you deserving of your knighthood ? deserving of your knighthood? teeeh— deserving of your knighthood? teeeh t— deserving of your knighthood? teeeh t thhh— deserving of your knighthood? jacob i think with political honours, it's— jacob i think with political honours, it's not a question of

teeewe— honours, it's not a question of teeewe h— honours, it's not a question of deserve in the— honours, it's not a question of deserve in the way that somebody whe— deserve in the way that somebody whe hee— deserve in the way that somebody whe hee eet— deserve in the way that somebody whe hee tet et— deserve in the way that somebody who has got an honour for doing eettethhe— who has got an honour for doing eettethhe h— who has got an honour for doing something in their— who has got an honour for doing something in their community for 50 something in their community for so yeete— something in their community for so yeete et— something in their community for 50 years or somebody who has won a 50 years or somebody who has won e thetet— 50 years or somebody who has won a medal political— 50 years or somebody who has won a medal political honours are eheet— a medal political honours are about rewarding— a medal political honours are about rewarding those people who hete— about rewarding those people who hewe hethet— about rewarding those people who hewe hethet h— about rewarding those people who have helped a prime minister can see have helped a prime minister can eet— have helped a prime minister can eet e— have helped a prime minister can eet e verve— have helped a prime minister can see out a very, very— have helped a prime minister can see out a very, very difficult job— see out a very, very difficult teh ett— see out a very, very difficult job and there— see out a very, very difficult job and there are people who hete— job and there are people who have provided— job and there are people who have provided support and eeeheet— have provided support and counsel and— have provided support and counsel and have been around and hete— counsel and have been around and hewe hete— counsel and have been around and hewe tehe e— counsel and have been around and have done a whole— counsel and have been around and have done a whole variety of these — have done a whole variety of these .— have done a whole variety of things. i think— have done a whole variety of things. i think it's- have done a whole variety of things. i think it's very important , things. i think it's very important, important that boris not only honoured people like me, but he also honoured people who aren't household names, but people who were there serving the office of prime minister and serving the prime minister. i think is one of the rewards think this is one of the rewards that arises in public life. but when your back is a good part of our system, but when you're backing somebody , is it in the backing somebody, is it in the backing somebody, is it in the back of your mind that you might get ? no, it didn't get an honour? no, it didn't te— get an honour? no, it didn't occur to me. oh- get an honour? no, it didn't occur to me. oh really ? i think occur to me. oh really? i think ihadnt occur to me. oh really? i think i hadn't occurred to me that i would when i backed boris in 20

1819, that i would become a knight. no, not at all. i didn't even think i'd get into his government necessarily. i backed him because i thought he was the right person . i'm delighted to right person. i'm delighted to get the honour, but actually becoming a privy councillor was an is a real thing because you do something as a privy councillor. this is a very nice honour to have, but becoming a privy councillor was the greatest honour. indeed, being a member of parliament for north east somerset is honour even east somerset is an honour even above because above that. i know because you're it by your fellow you're given it by your fellow countrymen. should happen countrymen. what should happen text—eheett- countrymen. what should happen next—should happen. countrymen. what should happeni next—should happen to next then? what should happen to the hhwteeee— next then? what should happen to the privileges report? there's teth— the privileges report? there's talk _johnson'sl talk among boris johnson's ettee— talk among boris johnson's critics that— talk among boris johnson's critics that he— talk among boris johnson's critics that he should have his hethettettety— critics that he should have his parliamentary revoked parliamentary park pass revoked . wett— parliamentary park pass revoked . wett. .— parliamentary park pass revoked . well, i think— parliamentary park pass revoked . well, i think they— parliamentary park pass revoked . well, i think they should remember the john junor example, the house of commons privileges committee got very upset with john junor in the 1950s for saying parliament was fiddling mps were fiddling their petrol coupons , and john junor was coupons, and john junor was summoned to the bar of the house and the house of commons looked

ridiculous. so the privileges committee has to bear in mind the of looking ridiculous the risk of looking ridiculous if imposes some petty if it imposes some petty punishment because boris has left their auspices . and also we left their auspices. and also we now left their auspices. and also we heee— left their auspices. and also we heet et— left their auspices. and also we now hear of some— left their auspices. and also we now hear of some mps- i i and also we now hear of some mps on the httwteeet— now hear of some mps on the privileged committee wanting some protection _ privileged committee wanting some protection against attacks thet— some protection against attacks thet they-te— some protection against attacks that they're not— some protection against attacks that they're not impartial . that they're not impartial. wett— that they're not impartial. wett .— that they're not impartial. well, i mean,— that they're not impartial. well, i mean, it is an interesting- well, i mean, it is an interesting claim, this, isn't it, interesting claim, this, isn't tt, thet— interesting claim, this, isn't tt, thet he-e— interesting claim, this, isn't it, that he's the— interesting claim, this, isn't it, that he's the victim of a remainer backed- it, that he's the victim of a remainer backed conspiracy when you remainer backed conspiracy when yew eehettet— remainer backed conspiracy when you consider the— remainer backed conspiracy when you consider the likes of hettett— you consider the likes of bernard jenkin and charles wethet— bernard jenkin and charles walker both— bernard jenkin and charles walker both being on the tttwtteeee— walker both being on the privileges committee and being htextteet— privileges committee and being brexiteer tories,— privileges committee and being brexiteer tories, what's he tethhe — brexiteer tories, what's he talking about?— brexiteer tories, what's he talking about? i mean, are you eeyhe— talking about? i mean, are you eeyhg thet— talking about? i mean, are you saying that bernard jenkin is part— saying that bernard jenkin is hettlthte— saying that bernard jenkin is hettlthte eett— saying that bernard jenkin is part-this coup ?- saying that bernard jenkin is part this coup ? what part of this coup? what et i thtth— part of this coup? what et i thtth he— part of this coup? what et i thtth he he— part of this coup? what et i think he is saying- part of this coup? what et i think he is saying and i agree with, is that harriet harman expressed her view before she took over the chairmanship and you know perfectly well how house of commons select committees work the draft report is provided by the chairman, the chairman the meetings, the chairman leads the meetings, the chairman leads the meetings, the chairman the advisers, chairman appoints the advisers, the advisers . and the legal advisers. and therefore, chairman is therefore, if the chairman is already party pre, a little leaven leavens all the bread and

therefore the impartiality of therefore the impartiality of the committee comes from the chairman and from the fact that she should have followed chris bryant and recused herself from that role as regards protecting them from criticism. nobody in this country is protected from free speech and criticism. it is a fundamental part of our constitution that we are allowed to criticise politicians and any politician who thinks otherwise is in cloud cuckoo land. so jacob rees—mogg, thank you so much for joining jacob rees—mogg, thank you so much forjoining us this morning much for joining us this morning . dame camilla, as it will soon be.thank . dame camilla, as it will soon be. thank you so much . be. thank you so much. dame camilla. think pigs were thety— dame camilla. think pigs were tthety hy— dame camilla. think pigs were more likely fly now.— t ct? think pigs were more likely fly now. lots more etetyete— more likely fly now. lots more etetyete et— more likely fly now. lots more analysis of boris— more likely fly now. lots more analysis of boris johnson's teetetettet— analysis of boris johnson's resignation to— analysis of boris johnson's resignation to come. as you'd theate— resignation to come. as you'd ttheghe we-te— resignation to come. as you'd imagine, we're going to get the wewe— imagine, we're going to get the et— imagine, we're going to get the

et hetty— imagine, we're going to get the views of barry gardiner, the tett— views of barry gardiner, the tett whe— views of barry gardiner, the left wing labour mp. i'm left wing labour mp. and i'm going— going to be speaking to tobias htweeh—hti going to be speaking to tobias. ellwood,_mp who ellwood, the conservative mp who was ellwood, the conservative mp who ewehehtet— ellwood, the conservative mp who ewehettet hy— ellwood, the conservative mp who was suspended by boris from the hy— was suspended by boris from the tety petty.— was suspended by boris from the tety hetty. tteet— was suspended by boris from the tory party. nigel farage is also going— tory party. nigel farage is also 90ing te— tory party. nigel farage is also tethe te he— tory party. nigel farage is also going to be joining me to tell us going to be joining me to tell we whet— going to be joining me to tell we whet he— going to be joining me to tell us what he thinks it means for eeteewettett — us what he thinks it means for conservatism in— us what he thinks it means for conservatism in british tethe.— conservatism in british politics. will- conservatism in british politics. will he team up with hete— politics. will he team up with boris johnson— politics. will he team up with boris johnson ?_ politics. will he team up with boris johnson ? i'll asking politics. will he team up with boritthat.|son ? i'll asking politics. will he team up with boritthat. and? i'll asking politics. will he team up with boritthat. and i'ml asking politics. will he team up with boritthat. and i'm going;king politics. will he team up with boritthat. and i'm going to lg politics. will he team up with boritthat. and i'm going to be him that. and i'm going to be tehet—hwtth-e- him that. and i'm going to be. joined _trump's former him that. and i'm going to be joineiof trump's former him that. and i'm going to be joineiof staff trump's former him that. and i'm going to be joineiof staff who trump's former him that. and i'm going to be joineiof staff who gives's former him that. and i'm going to be joineiof staff who gives us ormer him that. and i'm going to be joineiof staff who gives us his er chief of staff who gives us his the— chief of staff who gives us his tehe et— chief of staff who gives us his take on-indicted- chief of staff who gives us his take on indicted moment. i'm take on the indicted moment. i'm etee— take on the indicted moment. i'm etee-te— take on the indicted moment. i'm etee-te he— take on the indicted moment. i'm also-to be speaking- take on the indicted moment. i'm also to be speaking to also going to be speaking to geetteee— also going to be speaking to goodness-we're- also going to be speaking to goodness we're packing it in goodness me, we're packing it in this goodness me, we're packing it in thtthe— goodness me, we're packing it in thithe ukrainian— goodness me, we're packing it in thithe ukrainian ministry of of the ukrainian ministry of hetetee— of the ukrainian ministry of defence-that- of the ukrainian ministry of defence. that and more to defence. all that and more to ettee— defence. all that and more to come after the— defence. all that and more to come after the news with rory stttth— come after the news with rory stttth .— come after the news with rory stttth . — come after the news with rory smith . thank— come after the news with rory smith . thank you- come after the news with rory smith. wig come after the news with rory smith . i come after the news with rory- smith . thank you very much, dame smith. thank you very much, dame camilla. well, as you've been hearing, one of boris johnson's close allies has suggested the former prime minister may be back in westminster next year. sir jacob rees—mogg says mr sirjacob rees—mogg says mr johnson could easily get back into parliament at the next election . mrjohnson announced election. mrjohnson announced he is stepping down as an mp following an investigation into whether he lied to his

colleagues over partygate . sir colleagues over partygate. sir jacob says there could be disagree points if some mps tried to block his return. but he admits some things could have been done better. one always teeewee— been done better. one always deserves blame _ been done better. one always deserves blame for— i one always deserves blame for one's own thtetehee.— deserves blame for one's own tttetehee. tt— deserves blame for one's own mistakes. it would be absurd of me te— mistakes. it would be absurd of me te pretent— mistakes. it would be absurd of me to pretend that boris hasn't teete— me to pretend that boris hasn't made mistakes.— me to pretend that boris hasn't made mistakes. there was a man eettet— made mistakes. there was a man eettet heter— made mistakes. there was a man called peter wentworth who in the hete— called peter wentworth who in the late 16th _ called peter wentworth who in the late 16th century was locked up he— the late 16th century was locked up he the— the late 16th century was locked he he the tewet— the late 16th century was locked up in the tower for— the late 16th century was locked up in the tower for saying in the— up in the tower for saying in the heeee— up in the tower for saying in the house of— up in the tower for saying in the house of commons, none is wttheet— the house of commons, none is wtthewt teth— the house of commons, none is without fault .— the house of commons, none is without fault . no,— the house of commons, none is without fault . no, not our without fault. no, not our ateeteee— without fault. no, not our gracious queen. the same could be gracious queen. the same could he eett— gracious queen. the same could he eett et— gracious queen. the same could be said of boris.— gracious queen. the same could be said of boris. none is wtthewt— be said of boris. none is without-not. be said of boris. none isi without-not our without fault. no, not our ateeteee— without fault. no, not our theme-.- without fault. no, not our gracious-. that- without fault. no, not our gracious . that that is gracious boris. that that is the— gracious boris. that that is tteeleh— gracious boris. that that is tteeleh et— gracious boris. that that is true-all of us. - gracious boris. that that is true all of us. but in other true of all of us. but in other thte— true of all of us. but in other news this morning, ukraine says its news this morning, ukraine says tte eeettte— news this morning, ukraine says its counter offensive against tweete— its counter offensive against heeete te— its counter offensive against russia is under— its counter offensive against russia is under way. 37�*iti;xi t:ti;x russia is under way. president vladimir zelenskyy says he's optimistic about regaining lost territory. it's after ukraine said its forces had advanced at up to 2000m along the frontline near the eastern city of bakhmut . russia is disputing those claims . homeowners are being hit claims. homeowners are being hit with what labour is describing

as a tory mortgage penalty of £7,000 a year. the party says interest rates are triple what they were two years ago and the average homeowner is paying an extra £150 a week as a result of the mini—budget. the government says it's working on halving inflation to help struggling households . as manchester city households. as manchester city fans continue celebrating this morning. that's after lifting the champions league trophy for the champions league trophy for the very first time. they're now only the second english team to complete a historic treble after beating inter milan, 1—0 celebrate will continue in manchester tomorrow when the team will hold an open top bus parade to mark that victory. the team's manager, pep guardiola , team's manager, pep guardiola, says he's not thinking about any future games and just enjoying the moment instead time to celebrate. i'm looking forward to manchester— celebrate. i'm looking forward to manchester on— i i'm looking forward to manchester on monday ettetteeh— to manchester on monday afternoon to— to manchester on monday afternoon to put in our coach ett— afternoon to put in our coach end the— afternoon to put in our coach ett hee the— afternoon to put in our coach and bus the three trophies

hyeetee— and bus the three trophies hyaenas will— and bus the three trophies hyaenas will be and is an honour for hyaenas will be and is an honour tet the— hyaenas will be and is an honour for me, an honour— hyaenas will be and is an honour for me, an honour for me to be eteheette— for me, an honour for me to be etetaette sh— for me, an honour for me to be alongside sir alex— for me, an honour for me to be alongside sir alex ferguson in thet— alongside sir alex ferguson in thet h— alongside sir alex ferguson in thet h thet— alongside sir alex ferguson in that in that situation . and i that in that situation. and i hete— that in that situation. and i hewe te— that in that situation. and i hewe te eey,— that in that situation. and i hewe te eey, t— that in that situation. and i have to say, i got a message heth— have to say, i got a message ttett hhe— have to say, i got a message from him this— have to say, i got a message from him this morning in my htehe— from him this morning in my hhete thet— from him this morning in my phone that touched me a lot. so it phone that touched me a lot. so t he— phone that touched me a lot. so t he et— phone that touched me a lot. so it is an honour— phone that touched me a lot. so it is an honour for— phone that touched me a lot. so it is an honour for me to be wtth— it is an honour for me to be wtth htth — it is an honour for me to be wtth htth h— it is an honour for me to be with him in this— it is an honour for me to be with him in this in this place . with him in this in this place. tv with him in this in this place. tv onthe— with him in this in this place. tv 0nline dab+_ with him in this in this place. tv online dab+ radio,- with him in this in this place. tv online dab+ radio, and on tunein. this is gb news nato. back to . camilla welcome back to back to. camilla welcome back to the cetthte— back to. camilla welcome back to the camilla tominey— i ce" welcome back to the camilla tominey show still to the camilla tominey show still te eheeh— the camilla tominey show still te eheeh te— the camilla tominey show still to speak to nigel— the camilla tominey show still to speak to nigel farage, still to speak to nigel farage, still te eheeh— to speak to nigel farage, still te eheeh te— to speak to nigel farage, still to speak to boris— to speak to nigel farage, still to speak to boris basher, tobias htweet. — to speak to boris basher, tobias htweet. het— to speak to boris basher, tobias ellwood. but first,— to speak to boris basher, tobias ellwood. but first, i've got hetty— ellwood. but first, i've got barry gardiner— ellwood. but first, i've got barry gardiner ,- ellwood. but first, i've got barry gardiner , the labour mp barry gardiner, the labour mp for barry gardiner, the labour mp tet htett— barry gardiner, the labour mp for brent north— barry gardiner, the labour mp for brent north in the studio. hetty— for brent north in the studio. hetty ee— for brent north in the studio. barry are objecting to me teeetthhe— barry are objecting to me. describing—wing. describing you as left wing. teete— describing you as left wing. you're centrist— describing you as left wing. you're centrist .— describing you as left wing. you're centrist . you're saying you're centrist. you're saying to you're centrist. you're saying te the— you're centrist. you're saying to me, absolutely. a to me, absolutely. you're a htetttte— to me, absolutely. you're a htetttte-ee- blairite as well as a corbynista, - blairite as well as a corbynista, which heady corbynista, which is a heady combination— corbynista, which is a heady combination well, corbynista, which is a heady- combination-well,lserved combination. anne well, i served ettee— combination. anne well, i served ettee-tteet— combination. anne well, i served under- under both. - combination. anne well, i served under under both. fair under served under both. fair eteweh. —teh- under served under both. fair enough._tell usi enough. look, barry, tell us teheet-e— enough. look, barry, tell us labour's reaction to the boris .hette— labour's reaction to the boris news. boris bombshell having news. the boris bombshell having ttehhet— news. the boris bombshell having ttehhetlhttey— news. the boris bombshell having dropped friday night. look,

dropped on friday night. look, i thhh— dropped on friday night. look, i ththh the— dropped on friday night. look, i think the best— dropped on friday night. look, i think the best way to deal with hete— think the best way to deal with hette te— think the best way to deal with hette te te— think the best way to deal with boris is to ignore— think the best way to deal with boris is to ignore him . ?gx boris is to ignore him. right. i went— boris is to ignore him. right. i went te— boris is to ignore him. right. i went to get— boris is to ignore him. right. i want to get on with the business of being in the opposition and then being in the government because it's governing this country that is so sorely needed. and at the moment we have a government that that has lost any legislative agenda. i mean, the house is actually breaking up at 3:00 in the afternoon sometimes because they have no legislative programme to put forward. now, that is really why would a legislative programme. i why would a legislative programme . i think the argument programme. i think the argument is programme. i think the argument te thet— programme. i think the argument te thet tte— programme. i think the argument is that it's being— programme. i think the argument is that it's being torn— g i think the argument is that it's being torn apart in the— is that it's being torn apart in the hewee— is that it's being torn apart in the heeee et— is that it's being torn apart in the house of lords. well they hhe— the house of lords. well they htthe tt— the house of lords. well they can bring it back— the house of lords. well they can bring it back as they have hete— can bring it back as they have heee-thet— can bring it back as they have done .then they've- can bring it back as they have done then they've ignored done and then they've ignored thet— done and then they've ignored their lordships_ done and then they've ignored their lordships very often, very eetethte— their lordships very often, very sensible amendments that the tettehthe— sensible amendments that the lordships have— sensible amendments that the lordships have made and unfortunately— lordships have made and unfortunately you know , you look unfortunately you know, you look at unfortunately you know, you look et eette— unfortunately you know, you look at some legislation, take for exempte— at some legislation, take for exetthte the— at some legislation, take for example the animal welfare act, they— example the animal welfare act, they teeth— example the animal welfare act, they could easily— example the animal welfare act, they could easily have brought thet— they could easily have brought thet h— they could easily have brought thet h the— they could easily have brought that in the legislative hteatetttte- that in the legislative programme is so reduced at the

thetteht— programme is so reduced at the thetteht ett— programme is so reduced at the moment and yet— programme is so reduced at the moment and yet they've, they've eett — moment and yet they've, they've eett we-te— moment and yet they've, they've said no, we're not— moment and yet they've, they've said no, we're not going to do it. said no, we're not going to do tt. hh— said no, we're not going to do h at thett— said no, we're not going to do it. all right, but— said no, we're not going to do it. all right, but you've said tet-e— it. all right, but you've said tet-e tetete— it. all right, but you've said let's ignore him.— it. all right, but you've said let's ignore him. mps and your ewe-eett— let's ignore him. mps and your own-aren't willing- let's ignore him. mps and your own aren't willing to do own party aren't willing to do thet.— own party aren't willing to do thet-ethe- own party aren't willing to do that.-chris bryant. that. we've got chris bryant tehhe— that. we've got chris bryant taking-airwaves- that. we've got chris bryant taking airwaves talking taking to the airwaves talking ehewt— taking to the airwaves talking ehewt-tt-e— taking to the airwaves talking about-it's unfair- taking to the airwaves talking about it's unfair that the about how it's unfair that the thetteteh— members of the privileges cetttttttee — members of the privileges- committee-regarded as committee are being regarded as ttehethet— committee are being regarded as ttthethet h— committee are being regarded as impartial in some— committee are being regarded as impartial in some of these statements— impartial in some of these statements that been made statements that have been made by statements that have been made hy—heehete.- statements that have been made by _ backers. we've i by boris and his backers. we've got—parliamentary. got talk of his parliamentary heee— got talk of his parliamentary heee being— got talk of his parliamentary pass being revoked . i mean, pass being revoked. i mean, thet-e— pass being revoked. i mean, thet-e tet— pass being revoked. i mean, that's not ignoring him, is it? thet-e— that's not ignoring him, is it? thet-e hteyhe— that's not ignoring him, is it? that's playing and pandering that's playing up and pandering to that's playing up and pandering te the— that's playing up and pandering te the te— that's playing up and pandering te the te the— that's playing up and pandering to the to the press— that's playing up and pandering to the to the press narrative thet— to the to the press narrative that-somehow- to the to the press narrative that somehow the victim of to the to the press narrative tiwitch somehow the victim of to the to the press narrative tiwitch hunt. zhow the victim of to the to the press narrative tiwitch hunt. “43?" he victim of to the to the press narrative tiwitch hunt. / itcc'ictim of to the to the press narrative tiwitch hunt. “43?" of to the to the press narrative tiwitch hunt. “43?" )f a witch hunt. yeah, but look, isn't the way? so is isn't that always the way? so is should be revoked. barry, look , should be revoked. barry, look, what should be revoked. barry, look, whet hete— should be revoked. barry, look, what boris wants— should be revoked. barry, look, what boris wants .to_ should be revoked. barry, look, what boris wants .to be- : : barry, look, what boris wants to be the what boris wants is to be the eette— what boris wants is to be the centre-attention- what boris wants is to be the centre-attention .- what boris wants is to be the centre attention . but should centre of attention. but should his centre of attention. but should the heee— centre of attention. but should his pass-think- centre of attention. but should his pass-think as- centre of attention. but should his pass think as i said his pass be? i think as i said to his pass be? i think as i said te-thhh— his pass be? i think as i said te-thhh we— his pass be? i think as i said to think we should be to you, i think we should be thetthe— to you, i think we should bei ignoring—moment. to you, i think we should be- ignoring_moment. he's ignoring him at the moment. he's not ignoring him at the moment. he's tet—et— ignoring him at the moment. he's tet—et-hhl not be revoked. yes or no? his hte— not be revoked. yes or no? his hh heee— not be revoked. yes or no? his the test ee— not be revoked. yes or no? his the pets ee et— not be revoked. yes or no? his his pass as an mp,— not be revoked. yes or no? his his pass as an mp, of course he's resigned parliamentary access. parliamentary access access. his parliamentary access as former mp , as a former mp, he as former mp, as a former mp, he will have access to the house of commons should he remain having access i'm asking my access is what i'm asking my view is that's fine. i don't care whether they have access. as far as i'm concerned. but but but no

as far as i'm concerned. but but tet-he teheet— as far as i'm concerned. but but but-no longer an— as far as i'm concerned. but but but-no longer an mp.- as far as i'm concerned. but but but-no longer an mp. he's. but he's no longer an mp. he's teetetet— but he's no longer an mp. he's teetgtet wtth— but he's no longer an mp. he's resigned with immediate effect. so resigned with immediate effect. se whet-e— resigned with immediate effect. se whet-e the— resigned with immediate effect. so what's the point of the htwteeee— so what's the point of the privileges committee report now 7 privileges committee report now e-eheett— privileges committee report now e-eheett-thte- privileges committee report now ? should this report ? why should we see this report 7 tte— ? why should we see this report e the. tte— ? why should we see this report 7 it's. it's dead.— ? why should we see this report ? it's. it's dead. report's ? it's. it's dead. the report's teet— ? it's. it's dead. the report's teet .— ? it's. it's dead. the report's dead . what's— ? it's. it's dead. the report's dead . what's the- ? it's. it's dead. the report's dead . what's the point of it? dead. what's the point of it? thett— dead. what's the point of it? hhett ttett — dead. what's the point of it? hhett heth le— dead. what's the point of it? apart from a piece of apart from as a piece of hehthet— apart from as a piece of political-and. apart from as a piece of- political-and weaponry political posturing and weaponry eeehet— political posturing and weaponry egehet hete— political posturing and weaponry against boris johnson, why is there— against boris johnson, why is thete e— against boris johnson, why is there a point?— against boris johnson, why is there a point? why does the tethe— there a point? why does the teeth teet. — there a point? why does the public need. look, no, no, no. let's be very clear. the privileges committee was there to see whether there had been an abuse of parliament, whether somebody had lied to the house of commons. and that's what the privileges committee. i haven't read the report . neither have read the report. neither have you. i assume borisjohnson read you. i assume boris johnson read the report and he believed that it was so of him that he needed to resign. now as i say , i to resign. now as i say, i prefer to criticise people on the basis of what they've done, not on their personal attributes and in that case, it's important to see what he has. he is judged by the privileges committee to have done . do you do you not

have done. do you do you not hete— have done. do you do you not hewe ety— have done. do you do you not have any truck— have done. do you do you not have any truck with- : do you do you not have any truck with the notion thet— have any truck with the notion thet ehthe — have any truck with the notion that unlike any— have any truck with the notion that unlike any other politician in that unlike any other politician tt eett— that unlike any other politician in recent memory— that unlike any other politician in recent memory , boris johnson, in recent memory, boris johnson, hetttewtetty— in recent memory, boris johnson, particularly appears to have teet— particularly appears to have heet the— particularly appears to have been the target— particularly appears to have been the target of a lot of coordinated _ been the target of a lot of coordinated attacks, not just by teheet— coordinated attacks, not just by tehewt the— coordinated attacks, not just by labour, the snp_ coordinated attacks, not just by labour, the snp ,_ coordinated attacks, not just by labour, the snp , liberal labour, the snp, liberal democrats,— labour, the snp, liberal democrats, but also tories in his democrats, but also tories in the ew— democrats, but also tories in the petty.— democrats, but also tories in his own party. he's talked about tethe— his own party. he's talked about hetee the— his own party. he's talked about being the victim— his own party. he's talked about being the victim of a witch hwet. — being the victim of a witch hwet. eee— being the victim of a witch hwet. cee yee— being the victim of a witch hunt. can you not recognise with thetthete— hunt. can you not recognise with multiple parliamentary inquiries ewtteety— multiple parliamentary inquiries ewtteety e— multiple parliamentary inquiries suddenly a couple of weeks ago the tethe— suddenly a couple of weeks ago the police being— suddenly a couple of weeks ago the police being brought back in that the police being brought back in thet he— the police being brought back in thet he hee— the police being brought back in that he has faced— the police being brought back in that he has faced a greater eteeet— that he has faced a greater eteeet et— that he has faced a greater amount of scrutiny than anyone etee— amount of scrutiny than anyone etee te— amount of scrutiny than anyone else in parliament— amount of scrutiny than anyone else in parliament and he's teeet— else in parliament and he's teeet e— else in parliament and he's teeet e eteet— else in parliament and he's faced a great deal of scrutiny, wety— faced a great deal of scrutiny, wety teeth— faced a great deal of scrutiny, wety teweh very— faced a great deal of scrutiny, very much, very often that eetettey— very much, very often that eetwttey hee— very much, very often that scrutiny has been because of his , t— scrutiny has been because of his , t wette— scrutiny has been because of his own , i would say,— scrutiny has been because of his own , i would say, somewhat own, i would say, somewhat teehteee— own, i would say, somewhat reckless behaviour here. ' t: reckless behaviour here. and recklessness _ reckless behaviour here. and recklessness and _ reckless behaviour here. and recklessness and intention are complete different things under the law. well, indeed , you'll be the law. well, indeed, you'll be thet— the law. well, indeed, you'll be aware that that— the law. well, indeed, you'll be aware that that was— well, indeed, you'll be aware that that was one of the tethere— aware that that was one of the tethete thet— aware that that was one of the ladders that some— aware that that was one of the ladders that some members of the htwteeee— ladders that some members of the privileges committee offered to hete— privileges committee offered to hette te— privileges committee offered to hette te thet— privileges committee offered to boris in that committee . ti; boris in that committee. he suggested— boris in that committee. he suggested that—

boris in that committee. he suggested that ,_ boris in that committee. he suggested that , look, perhaps suggested that, look, perhaps you didn't do this intentionally. yes. perhaps you were a bit reckless, they said, and i think if boris had had seen used that opportunity to climb back down, then it might have been a different outcome on the committee. he didn't. he expressly refused to climb down. and again, that may well be in in the nature of the man. i want to rattle through a— in the nature of the man. i want to rattle through a few- i ”ti: iii i want to rattle through a few more eweetteee— to rattle through a few more questions because we've got thettet— questions because we've got limited time,— questions because we've got limited time, resignation heeewte—hei honours, should they be abolished _ honours, should they be abolished .7 _ honours, should they be abolished ? \ttit honours, should they be abolished ? \tit honours, should they be- abolished ? n0,ithink there's abolished? no, i think there's a place for them, but they should be reflective of a chumocracy but shouldn't be abused . but they shouldn't be abused. okay. these now , if okay. these elections now, if het— okay. these elections now, if keir starmer— okay. these elections now, if keir starmer doesn't win them , keir starmer doesn't win them, he-e— keir starmer doesn't win them, the going— keir starmer doesn't win them, the going te— keir starmer doesn't win them, the going te he— keir starmer doesn't win them, he's going to be in a difficult heetttee— he's going to be in a difficult thetthee-hee— he's going to be in a difficult position,-he?-why| he's going to be in a difficult- position,-he?-why not? position, isn't he? no. why not? wett— position, isn't he? no. why not? well because labour should be storming ahead these polls, storming ahead in these polls, shouldn't they ? you will know shouldn't they? you will know that the seat in uxbridge, boris's own seat. labour should think we should win. okay. the other two seats. it's a 20 and a 24,000 majority. right? so i really don't think that with the best will in the world. okay,

how about anarchists with the liberal in those seats how about anarchists with the lilkeep in those seats how about anarchists with the lilkeep the in those seats how about anarchists with the lilkeep the tories in those seats how about anarchists with the lilkeep the tories out? ;e seats how about anarchists with the lilkeep the tories out? is seats how about anarchists with the lilkeep the tories out? is that; to keep the tories out? is that something-you'd- to keep the tories out? is that. something-you'd consider? something that you'd consider? i'm something that you'd consider? the -te— something that you'd consider? the _r. the— something that you'd consider? i'm _in the business- something that you'd consider? i'm _in the business of. i'm i'm not in the business of doing i believe even in doing pacts. i believe even in a general election situation , if general election situation, if you're the largest party, then you're the largest party, then you should govern as, as the largest single party. you put forward your proposals to the electorate. you put them forward in a legislative programme in the house of commons and you get those who agree with you to vote it through. but but deals are a way of politicians going to the electorate and saying, oh, well, i'm couldn't i'm sorry, of course i couldn't do promised you last time do what i promised you last time because those other pacts. because of those other pacts. no for barry, at least . i no packs for barry, at least. i tee-t— no packs for barry, at least. i don't-whether- no packs for barry, at least. i don't whether that's the don't know whether that's the teheet—tet-el don't know whether that's the . labour—let's move labour leader's view. let's move on_chancellor- labour leader's view. let's move on chancellor rachel on to shadow chancellor rachel heeee—ete- on to shadow chancellor rachel reeves water down reeves decision to water down the-tteehehty- reeves decision to water down the prosperity plan. is the green prosperity plan. is the— the green prosperity plan. is thte-heetty- the green prosperity plan. is this finally you've this because finally you've teeheet— this because finally you've realised that— this because finally you've realised that your plans are economically— realised that your plans are economically illiterate ? economically illiterate? i think i economically illiterate? i think t hete— economically illiterate? i think t hewe hete— economically illiterate? i think i have more faith in in the green prosperity plan than rachel appears to. well, because miliband has more faith in it. let me shadow chancellor. let me explain— let me shadow chancellor. let me explainwby- — let me shadow chancellor. let me explain why. because— let me shadow chancellor. let me explain why. i explain why. because i think rachel was absolutely right in saying that. if you want to grow

the economy in a sustainable way, then the way to do that is through this green prosperity plan. it's spending half the teteeee— plan. it's spending half the defence budget— it's spending half the defence budget every year, £28 hhhee. — defence budget every year, £28 hhhee. tet— defence budget every year, £28 billion. let me— defence budget every year, £28 billion. e�*t: i billion. let me advance the argument. okay if you want to grow the economy and you say this is the best way of growing the economy to engage and invest in the green, green future , then in the green, green future, then actually it makes no sense to say, but we're only going to do that once the economy's grown. it's your plan for growing the economy now , she's absolutely economy now, she's absolutely right to say that we have to keep the fiscal rules. but of course, the first fiscal is course, the first fiscal rule is that you want to get debt down as a proportion of gdp, making proposals that contradict her own fiscal discipline. that's my point. not if you want to point. she's not if you want to get debt down as a proportion of gdp, what you do is you grow the economy. and gdp, what you do is you grow the economy . and if the plan for economy. and if the plan for a yeet— economy. and if the plan for a yeet te— economy. and if the plan for a yeet te the— economy. and if the plan for a year to the spending- i and if the plan for a year to the spending sorry , you year to the spending sorry, you hettew— year to the spending sorry, you hettew eet— year to the spending sorry, you borrow not for— year to the spending sorry, you borrow not for consumption, but for investment— borrow not for consumption, but for investment and— borrow not for consumption, but

for investment and that investment— for investment and that investment grows the economy and it investment grows the economy and t ehee— investment grows the economy and t ehee yew— investment grows the economy and t ehee yew ee— investment grows the economy and it gives you more money for your day— it gives you more money for your tey te— it gives you more money for your hey te hey— it gives you more money for your day to day spending on consumption- day to day spending on consumption . citiiti; consumption. is there an argument to say that labour isn't the party of business, it's the of just stop it's just the party of just stop oil? you take all this money from mean , not all from del vince. i mean, not all labour with just labour voters agree with just stop oils tactics. you've come up about banning stop oils tactics. you've come up sea about banning stop oils tactics. you've come up sea oil about banning stop oils tactics. you've come up sea oil and about banning stop oils tactics. you've come up sea oil and gas?: banning stop oils tactics. you've come up sea oil and gas? no,ining stop oils tactics. you've come up sea oil and gas? no, norg stop oils tactics. you've come up sea oil and gas? no, no , north sea oil and gas? no, no, no. camilla, that's not true . no. camilla, that's not true. the — no. camilla, that's not true. the eetty. — no. camilla, that's not true. the eeey. hee— camilla, that's not true. i'm sorry. you know better than thet.— i'm sorry. you know better than thet. het— i'm sorry. you know better than thet. het tte— i'm sorry. you know better than that. and it's not— i'm sorry. you know better than that. and it's not true. that whet— that. and it's not true. that was what keir— that. and it's not true. that was what keir starmer suggested last week. absolutely not. but he wanted to stop drilling for oil north sea. oil and gas in the north sea. i'm know very well. i'm sorry. you know very well. whet— i'm sorry. you know very well. whet te— i'm sorry. you know very well. whet h tt— i'm sorry. you know very well. what is it then? you- i'm sorry. you know very well. c citii7 you you i'm sorry. you know very well. c citi;i7 you you know what is it then? you you know very— what is it then? you you know wety wett— what is it then? you you know wety wett thet— what is it then? you you know very well that actually- c citi;i7 you you know very well that actually there wht— very well that actually there wttt he — very well that actually there will be drilling— very well that actually there will be drilling for oil in the teeth— will be drilling for oil in the teeth see— will be drilling for oil in the north sea .the- will be drilling for oil in the north sea the way through north sea right the way through te. — north sea right the way through te. why— north sea right the way through te. why hete— north sea right the way through to. why have the— north sea right the way through to. c.i north sea right the way through to. c. i to. why have the unions objected to. why have the unions objected to this? they think to this? if they don't think it's to thousands of it's going to cost thousands of jobs? sorry, changed the jobs? sorry, you've changed the eeeettee— jobs? sorry, you've changed the eweettee. tet— jobs? sorry, you've changed the question. let me— 7 sorry, you've changed the question. let me answer the thet— question. let me answer the thet-thee— question. let me answer the first-then i'll- question. let me answer the first then i'll answer the first and then i'll answer the eeeeeh — first and then i'll answer the second. what— first and then i'll answer the second. what has happened is they-we— second. what has happened is they-we eett— second. what has happened is they've said there should be no exetetettee— they've said there should be no exploration for— they've said there should be no exploration for new. okay. okay. so exploration for new. okay. okay. he he— exploration for new. okay. okay. he he ew— exploration for new. okay. okay. so it's new fields— exploration for new. okay. okay. so it's new fields and the unions have— so it's new fields and the unions have said that that's going— unions have said that that's going te— unions have said that that's going te teet— unions have said that that's going to cost £45,000. so you

accept— going to cost £45,000. so you eeeett thet?— going to cost £45,000. so you accept that? i'm _ going to cost £45,000. so you accept that? i'm correct- going to cost £45,000. ii cititc7 i'm correct on the accept that? i'm correct on the thet— accept that? i'm correct on the tttet ttehet— accept that? i'm correct on the first point where— accept that? i'm correct on the first point where you- ii cititc7 i'm correct on the first point where you where you wteeety— first point where you where you wrongly et— first point where you where you wrongly et yee— first point where you where you wrongly or you wrongly said that there— wrongly or you wrongly said that thete wee— wrongly or you wrongly said that thete ee— wrongly or you wrongly said that there was no stopping of. ti; there was no stopping of. he eett— there was no stopping of. he eett hee— there was no stopping of. he eett hee te— there was no stopping of. ti; ititt: i �*ccciti; okay there was no stopping of. ti; t: i okay , there was no stopping of. ti; t: ittiti i ”ti: okay , new said ban in future. okay, new tthhee— said ban in future. okay, new tthhee h— said ban in future. okay, new drilling if we're— said ban in future. okay, new drilling if we're going- t: i okay, new drilling if we're going to be eeteeeth— drilling if we're going to be semantic about— drilling if we're going to be semantic about it, it's the , eet— semantic about it, it's the unions , not me, that have said unions, not me, that have said he— unions, not me, that have said he going— unions, not me, that have said he going te— unions, not me, that have said it's going to cost— unions, not me, that have said it's going to cost 45,000 jobs. nowh— it's going to cost 45,000 jobs. new t— it's going to cost 45,000 jobs. new t theweht— it's going to cost 45,000 jobs. now, i thought the labour party was now, i thought the labour party eeeet te— now, i thought the labour party was meant to be— now, i thought the labour party was meant to be the party of the weteth— was meant to be the party of the weteth te— was meant to be the party of the weteth he the— was meant to be the party of the worker to the point— was meant to be the party of the worker to the point here is this if worker to the point here is this h yee— worker to the point here is this h yew ee— worker to the point here is this if you are transitioning your eey— if you are transitioning your eey te— if you are transitioning your eeeey te e— if you are transitioning your economy to a new green , cleaner economy to a new green, cleaner hue,— economy to a new green, cleaner hue, whet— economy to a new green, cleaner hue, whet yew— economy to a new green, cleaner future, what you have to do is you— future, what you have to do is yet hete— future, what you have to do is yet hewe te— future, what you have to do is you have to transition and eete— you have to transition and eete the— you have to transition and create the jobs— you have to transition and create the jobs of the future hetete— create the jobs of the future hetete yew — create the jobs of the future before you lose— create the jobs of the future before you lose the jobs of the tteet. — before you lose the jobs of the heet. het— before you lose the jobs of the past. and that's— before you lose the jobs of the past. ' t: ti;,te

investing more in what are going to be stranded assets . it's to be stranded assets. it's actually if you look at what's happening in the financial sector, the world markets are saying we want to make sure that our investments are aligned with what we know, the future is going to be. and that future is a clean , green future. okay. you a clean, green future. okay. you had the world, the high level experts panel at the un saying we're not going far enough and fast enough in investing in a clean future . yeah, i'm going to clean future. yeah, i'm going to hete— clean future. yeah, i'm going to hewe te— clean future. yeah, i'm going to hewe te wret— clean future. yeah, i'm going to have to wrap because- clean future. yeah, i'm going to have to wrap because it- i i ”ti: yeah, i'm going to have to wrap because it goes so ewhhty— have to wrap because it goes so ewtehty whee— have to wrap because it goes so ewtehty whee we— have to wrap because it goes so quickly when we chat in our tyeteehy— quickly when we chat in our typically adversarial way . typically adversarial way. but i'm typically adversarial way. but the ee— typically adversarial way. but i'm so delighted— typically adversarial way. but i'm so delighted to- typically adversarial way. but i'm so delighted to speak to you this morning. barry gardiner, thank on thank you for coming in on behalf of the labour now behalf of the labour party. now let's the side of let's move to the blue side of the debate . but tobias ellwood, the debate. but tobias ellwood, the debate. but tobias ellwood, the mp for bournemouth the tory mp for bournemouth east, me a fierce east, joins me now. a fierce critic of boris johnson. he had the whip removed by the former prime july. prime minister in july. now tobias , you must be popping the tobias, you must be popping the champagne corks open. you're delighted at boris johnson's demise, no doubt . not at all. demise, no doubt. not at all. not at demise, no doubt. not at all. wet et ett— demise, no doubt. not at all. not at all. this— demise, no doubt. not at all. not at all. this is— demise, no doubt. not at all.

not at all. this is a- t:ti;i t:titc. not at all. not at all. this is a grave eet— not at all. this is a grave moment for— not at all. this is a grave moment for our- not at all. this is a grave moment for our party, and it's very— moment for our party, and it's very; very— moment for our party, and it's very; wety eet— moment for our party, and it's very, very sad indeed that this is very, very sad indeed that this he hehheetee. — very, very sad indeed that this is happening. um— very, very sad indeed that this is happening. um, you know, typekit johnson is typically departed in his own style, kicking and screaming was so much drama inflicting damage as he goes . he claims he emulates he goes. he claims he emulates thetteht— he goes. he claims he emulates chwtehht ;— he goes. he claims he emulates churchill , but— he goes. he claims he emulates churchill , but never— 3 he claims he emulates churchill, but never did churchill— churchill, but never did churchill as— churchill, but never did churchill as prime minister act so churchill as prime minister act ee eettteeety,— churchill as prime minister act so selflessly, blatantly abandoning— so selflessly, blatantly abandoning colleagues on the hettthet— abandoning colleagues on the political battlefield. you know, whee— political battlefield. you know, whee the— political battlefield. you know, whee the going— political battlefield. you know, when the going gets tough, chwtehht— when the going gets tough, churchill would stay the course eet— churchill would stay the course eet tteete— churchill would stay the course and inspire the— churchill would stay the course and inspire the johnson quits not and inspire the johnson quits eet eety— and inspire the johnson quits not only kicking— and inspire the johnson quits not only kicking the milk hetttee— not only kicking the milk bottles on— not only kicking the milk bottles on his— not only kicking the milk bottles on his way out , but bottles on his way out, but tettytee— bottles on his way out, but rallying other— bottles on his way out, but rallying other mps to follow in eteet— rallying other mps to follow in ettet te— rallying other mps to follow in order to inflict— rallying other mps to follow in order to inflict maximum damage to order to inflict maximum damage te the— order to inflict maximum damage te the very— order to inflict maximum damage te the wee petty— order to inflict maximum damage to the very party that he claims to the very party that he claims te eteeet.— to the very party that he claims te ewhhett. se— to the very party that he claims to support. so johnson certainly is to support. so johnson certainly he he— to support. so johnson certainly is no churchill— to support. so johnson certainly is no churchill and— to support. so johnson certainly is no churchill and his actions are is no churchill and his actions ehte— is no churchill and his actions ehte te— is no churchill and his actions are akin to mutiny. is no churchill and his actions are akin to mutiny . there are are akin to mutiny. there are hte— are akin to mutiny. there are mps, councillors— are akin to mutiny. there are mps, councillors ,- are akin to mutiny. there are mps, councillors , candidates, mps, councillors, candidates, eethtete— mps, councillors, candidates, eettwete wh— mps, councillors, candidates, activists up and— mps, councillors, candidates, activists up and down the eeettty— activists up and down the eewetty, eeey— activists up and down the country, many who had such etetettee— country, many who had such adulation for— country, many who had such adulation for him, who'll be so tteehhetetet— adulation for him, who'll be so tteehhetetet hy— adulation for him, who'll be so disappointed by this selfish and teetteethe— disappointed by this selfish and destructive conduct that we are eeetee — destructive conduct that we are eeetee ee— destructive conduct that we are now seeing as we— destructive conduct that we are

now seeing as we are left to hteh— now seeing as we are left to hhh eh— now seeing as we are left to hhh we the— now seeing as we are left to pick up the pieces. and you and i pick up the pieces. and you and t hete— pick up the pieces. and you and t hee hee— pick up the pieces. and you and i have had this— pick up the pieces. and you and i have had this discussion of whet— i have had this discussion of what conservatives is about eteet— what conservatives is about small government, what conservatives is about small government , lower taxes, small government, lower taxes, ewhhetttee— small government, lower taxes, ewhhetttea the— small government, lower taxes, supporting the enterprise , free supporting the enterprise, free eetethttee — supporting the enterprise, free eetethttee .— supporting the enterprise, free enterprise . but— supporting the enterprise, free enterprise . but it's also enterprise. but it's also eeeewteatea— enterprise. but it's also encouraging a sense of duty and teeteeeththty— encouraging a sense of duty and responsibility to— encouraging a sense of duty and responsibility to the individual and responsibility to the individual eet hwtttee— responsibility to the individual and putting britain's nations teteteete— and putting britain's nations interests first. _ and putting britain's nations interests first. johnson has teet— interests first. johnson has teet eteet— interests first. johnson has lost sight of— interests first. johnson has lost sight of that. and if i can teet— lost sight of that. and if i can thet eey— lost sight of that. and if i can thet eey ;— lost sight of that. and if i can thet eey , yew— lost sight of that. and if i can just say , you know, this would just say, you know, this would be just say, you know, this would he ee— just say, you know, this would be an opportunity— just say, you know, this would be an opportunity motty for the htee— be an opportunity motty for the prime minister.— be an opportunity motty for the prime minister. this is where eetwte— prime minister. this is where astute leaders— prime minister. this is where astute leaders turn crisis is hete— astute leaders turn crisis is into opportunities to deal with the— into opportunities to deal with this factional— into opportunities to deal with this factional fighting , this this factional fighting, this ill discipline.— this factional fighting, this ill discipline. johnson's thetthete— ill discipline. johnson's mutinous disloyal behaviour ehewtt— mutinous disloyal behaviour should actually— mutinous disloyal behaviour should actually see him lose the thett— should actually see him lose the tteht te— should actually see him lose the tteht te eteet— should actually see him lose the right to stand as— should actually see him lose the right to stand as a— should actually see him lose the right to stand as a conservative mp right to stand as a conservative ht eet— right to stand as a conservative ht eet eey— right to stand as a conservative mp and any other— right to stand as a conservative mp and any other mp, triggering a mp and any other mp, triggering e hy-eteettee— mp and any other mp, triggering a by—election also— mp and any other mp, triggering a by—election also should be tewtet— a by—election also should be tewtet te— a by—election also should be invited to leave— a by—election also should be invited to leave the party and to invited to leave the party and te 90— invited to leave the party and te ge tether— invited to leave the party and to go further to— invited to leave the party and to go further to say the prime htetetet— to go further to say the prime minister should— to go further to say the prime minister should now have a tethet— minister should now have a radical reshuffle shuffle teetee— radical reshuffle shuffle inviting more- radical reshuffle shuffle inviting more competent , inviting more competent, thetthet— inviting more competent, disciplined conservatives into the cehteet— disciplined conservatives into the cabinet who— disciplined conservatives into the cabinet who are committed to his the cabinet who are committed to the eteete— the cabinet who are committed to his agenda because— the cabinet who are committed to his agenda because the nation wht— his agenda because the nation wttt thee— his agenda because the nation will then finally— his agenda because the nation will then finally see who would you will then finally see who would yet the— will then finally see who would yet the the — will then finally see who would you like him to— will then finally see who would you like him to get rid of? teetetehhe— you like him to get rid of? leadership has— you like him to get rid of? leadership has returned- you like him to get rid of? leadership has returned to the party. that's what we now need

to party. that's what we now need te — party. that's what we now need te whe— party. that's what we now need to see. who should— party. that's what we now need to see. who should he- that's what we now need to see. gti party. that's what we now need to see. who should he get rid of? suella braverman. of? tobias suella braverman. i'm not going debate i'm not going into that debate thett— i'm not going into that debate tteet—whetl i'm not going into that debate ttehtite—whetl i'm not going into that debate right to actually what i'm not going into that debate right to actually happen.tat i'm not going into that debate right to actually happen. but needs to actually happen. but yee— you've just sparked a debate heeeeee— you've just sparked a debate because-called- you've just sparked a debate because called for because you've called for a teehwttte — because you've called for a teehwttte .— because you've called for a reshuffle . that's for the prime reshuffle. that's for the prime htetetet— reshuffle. that's for the prime htetetet te— reshuffle. that's for the prime minister to judge— reshuffle. that's for the prime minister to judge and choose the— minister to judge and choose thte eet— minister to judge and choose this moment to— minister to judge and choose this moment to draw an end to the hete— this moment to draw an end to the boris johnson— this moment to draw an end to the boris johnson era. the eet— the boris johnson era. the moment when— the boris johnson era. the moment when the prime minister eeeeett— moment when the prime minister eeeeett hte— moment when the prime minister asserts his authority to flush eet— asserts his authority to flush out doubters— asserts his authority to flush out doubters .— asserts his authority to flush out doubters . look, detractors out doubters. look, detractors in out doubters. look, detractors he the— out doubters. look, detractors he the eye— out doubters. look, detractors he the eye te— out doubters. look, detractors in the eye to say,— out doubters. look, detractors in the eye to say, are you with us in the eye to say, are you with we et eeeteet— in the eye to say, are you with us or against us?— in the eye to say, are you with us or against us? do you want to we— us or against us? do you want to wte the— us or against us? do you want to wte the text— us or against us? do you want to win the next general election? or win the next general election? he he— win the next general election? he he yew— win the next general election? he he yew wett— win the next general election? or do you want us— win the next general election? or do you want us to see an eeeeettteee— or do you want us to see an opposition? this— or do you want us to see an opposition? this is the moment thet— opposition? this is the moment thet we— opposition? this is the moment thet we eee— opposition? this is the moment that we can regroup, refresh and eeeeehhete— that we can regroup, refresh and consolidate with— that we can regroup, refresh and consolidate with mission teeweeeh— consolidate with mission focussed to _ consolidate with mission focussed to win the next general eteettee — focussed to win the next general eteettee .— focussed to win the next general eteettee . tte— focussed to win the next general election . i'm confused by boris election. i'm confused by boris teheeee— election. i'm confused by boris teheeee thet— election. i'm confused by boris johnson that wants to drag our party— johnson that wants to drag our petty hete— johnson that wants to drag our petty tete the— johnson that wants to drag our party into the mire . party into the mire. okay, i'm teeteeet— party into the mire. okay, i'm confused though, because you've talked about wanting smaller government, lower taxes and this spirit of entrepreneurial ism and yet actually you're supporting a prime minister and a chancellor that want higher taxes , a bigger government, and taxes, a bigger government, and a fostering an environment

where, frankly, most people wouldn't want to start a business in 2023. yeah and you're glossing over the major issues that have actually confronted us in the last decade. we came in inheriting heht— decade. we came in inheriting massive debt after— :i: we came in inheriting massive debt after the crisis in zoos. — massive debt after the crisis in zoos. we— massive debt after the crisis in zoos. we thee— massive debt after the crisis in 2008. we then had brexit, which was 2008. we then had brexit, which hetteet— 2008. we then had brexit, which was distract and— 2008. we then had brexit, which was distract and disturbed our eey— was distract and disturbed our eey te— was distract and disturbed our eey te e— was distract and disturbed our economy in a major way. we then had,— economy in a major way. we then heh et— economy in a major way. we then heh et eee— economy in a major way. we then had, of course, the— economy in a major way. we then had, of course, the war in hhtetee— had, of course, the war in ukraine and— had, of course, the war in ukraine and of- had, of course, the war in ukraine and of course covid. theee— ukraine and of course covid. theee ee— ukraine and of course covid. these are things— ukraine and of course covid. these are things that any teweteteeet— these are things that any government would have to deal wtth— government would have to deal wtth eth— government would have to deal with and have— government would have to deal with and have caused concerns ehewt— with and have caused concerns ehewt ew— with and have caused concerns about our economic fiscal etehthty— about our economic fiscal stability. yes— about our economic fiscal stability. yes we want smaller eeteteeet-t — stability. yes we want smaller government. yes,— stability. yes we want smaller government. yes, we want lower twee— government. yes, we want lower texee .— government. yes, we want lower texee . hee.— government. yes, we want lower texee . hee. hwt— government. yes, we want lower taxes . yes. but people even taxes. yes. but people even tewet— taxes. yes. but people even tethet, ee— taxes. yes. but people even tetget, ee we— taxes. yes. but people even forget, as we try- taxes. yes. but people even forget, as we try to emulate heteetet— forget, as we try to emulate margaret thatcher, she raised twee— margaret thatcher, she raised texee whee— margaret thatcher, she raised taxes when she— margaret thatcher, she raised taxes when she had to as well. is taxes when she had to as well. he tt— taxes when she had to as well. he tt eet— taxes when she had to as well. is it not problematic— taxes when she had to as well. is it not problematic for- taxes when she had to as well. is it not problematic for the- is it not problematic for the tory party at this stage to see quite devastating polling again on this weekend in the mail on sunday talking about keir starmer superior popularity and approval rating to that of rishi sunak ? i'm not going to be sunak? i'm not going to be hetteeteh— sunak? i'm not going to be distracted by— sunak? i'm not going to be distracted by that. - 7 i'm not going to be distracted by that. the reason why— distracted by that. the reason why ew— distracted by that. the reason why petty— distracted by that. the reason why petty te— distracted by that. the reason why our party is in such a mess at why our party is in such a mess et the— why our party is in such a mess at the moment— why our party is in such a mess at the moment is— why our party is in such a mess at the moment is because of the

ill at the moment is because of the ttt htehphee— at the moment is because of the ill discipline we've— at the moment is because of the ill discipline we've had in the teet— ill discipline we've had in the teet eewpte— ill discipline we've had in the last couple .years,- ill discipline we've had in the last couple years, not just last couple of years, not just hete— last couple of years, not just boris johnson,— last couple of years, not just boris johnson, truss boris johnson, but liz truss as wet.— boris johnson, but liz truss as wettlheetty— boris johnson, but liz truss as well. finally started to get well. we finally started to get our well. we finally started to get eet— well. we finally started to get eet te— well. we finally started to get our act in order.— well. we finally started to get our act in order. we finally etetteh— our act in order. we finally etetteh te— our act in order. we finally started to rekindle a sense of eteteetett— started to rekindle a sense of statecraft in— started to rekindle a sense of statecraft in number 10 and now hete— statecraft in number 10 and now boris, because— statecraft in number 10 and now boris, because he— statecraft in number 10 and now boris, because he doesn't get his boris, because he doesn't get the wey— boris, because he doesn't get his way, throws— boris, because he doesn't get his way, throws his teddies in the— his way, throws his teddies in the eeteee— his way, throws his teddies in the corner and— his way, throws his teddies in the corner and as— his way, throws his teddies in the corner and as i say, not rhet— the corner and as i say, not rwet wehe— the corner and as i say, not just walks out— the corner and as i say, not just walks out the front door, hwt— just walks out the front door, but encourages— just walks out the front door, but encourages his other mps to ttehet— but encourages his other mps to thee hy— but encourages his other mps to trigger by elections as well . i trigger by elections as well. i eteee— trigger by elections as well. i etteee thete — trigger by elections as well. i stress there was— trigger by elections as well. i stress there was much love for hete— stress there was much love for hette teheeee— stress there was much love for boris johnson and— stress there was much love for boris johnson and what he did in 20th,— boris johnson and what he did in 20th th— boris johnson and what he did in 20th, hwt he— boris johnson and what he did in 2019, but he is— boris johnson and what he did in 2019, but he is not— boris johnson and what he did in 2019, but he is not bigger than the petty.— 2019, but he is not bigger than the petty. ow— 2019, but he is not bigger than the party. our historically most eweeeeetwt— the party. our historically most successful party— the party. our historically most successful party in the world, eth— successful party in the world, eeh we— successful party in the world, and we should— successful party in the world, and we should now recognise what heee— and we should now recognise what hette teheeee— and we should now recognise what boris johnson is— and we should now recognise what boris johnson is trying to do eth— boris johnson is trying to do eeh eewppet— boris johnson is trying to do and scupper our— boris johnson is trying to do and scupper our chances at the text— and scupper our chances at the text eeteeet— and scupper our chances at the next general election. finally, tethe— next general election. finally, tethe. whet— next general election. finally, tobias, what should happen to the privileges committee report and what should happen to boris johnson's parliamentary pass ? johnson's parliamentary pass? well it's not for me to judge what happens to the passed the report is very, very important for us to understand . the for us to understand. the conduct of mps is- c.xi c. 3: the conduct of mps is important for the wetth — conduct of mps is important for the world. you— conduct of mps is important for the world. you know, britain , the world. you know, britain, the— the world. you know, britain, the hetete— the world. you know, britain, the voters, to _

the world. you know, britain, the voters, to see— the world. you know, britain, the voters, to see how conduct, hew— the voters, to see how conduct, hew we — the voters, to see how conduct, hew we teeteee— the voters, to see how conduct, how we manage our conduct eettwttee. — how we manage our conduct eettwttee. se— how we manage our conduct activities. so many questions eeheh— activities. so many questions were asked about boris johnson's hehewew— were asked about boris johnson's hehewew tet— were asked about boris johnson's behaviour for a— were asked about boris johnson's behaviour for a report was wttttee— behaviour for a report was written and— behaviour for a report was written and commissioned by a eetetetttee— written and commissioned by a committee that— written and commissioned by a committee that the prime htetetet— committee that the prime minister signed up to . it's minister signed up to. it's ttepetteet— minister signed up to. it's important that— minister signed up to. it's important that we see that . we important that we see that. we the — important that we see that. we see the outcomes— important that we see that. we see the outcomes of that and theee— see the outcomes of that and theee ee— see the outcomes of that and those are said— see the outcomes of that and those are said properly. tobias tttweeh— those are said properly. tobias tttweeh .— those are said properly. tobias ellwood , thank you very much ellwood, thank you very much indeed for joining ellwood, thank you very much indeed forjoining me this indeed for joining me this morning. now, i'm delighted to be joined by my fellow gb news presenter. he presents a weekday show. i don't know if you've noficed show. i don't know if you've noticed it from 7 to 8 pm. his name is nigel farage, president of party. all around of the reform party. all around political the former political guru. as the former leader ukip and indeed an leader of ukip and indeed an mep. now nigel, good morning. bristling with questions for you. first of all, do you think this is the last we're going to see if boris johnson in the political arena? well, i think the eetet— political arena? well, i think the anger that— political arena? well, i think the anger that-saw- the anger that you saw there hete— the anger that you saw there heth-wh— the anger that you saw there from will become the from tobias l will become the teheeteetet— from tobias l will become the mainstream view— from tobias l will become the mainstream view of the conservative _ mainstream view of the conservative party. tititi c conservative party. i don't thteh— conservative party. i don't thteh he-e— conservative party. i don't think he's got future in the think he's got any future in the conservative whatsoever . conservative party whatsoever. and this he'd be allowed to and this idea he'd be allowed to fight a safer seat than uxbridge. hang he's uxbridge. well hang on. he's

effectively uxbridge to effectively gifted uxbridge to the labour party and who knows, the labour party and who knows, the other seats could go lib dem. out very shortly dem. we'll find out very shortly . so i think he will be seen to be doing damage to the party. the his allies calling for a civil war or no, boris johnson's road with the conservative party is coming towards an end. that's a really interesting teheet— that's a really interesting caveat with— that's a really interesting caveat with the conservative tetty. — caveat with the conservative tetty. hwt— caveat with the conservative hetty. hwt he-e— caveat with the conservative party. but he's got some road pehthetty— party. but he's got some road politically elsewhere where if he wette— politically elsewhere where if he weete te, — politically elsewhere where if he wants to, i— politically elsewhere where if he wants to, i mean, that all hepeehe— he wants to, i mean, that all hepeehe ee— he wants to, i mean, that all depends on him. i he wants to, i mean, that all depends on him. i mean, the way i see it, it's fascinating. tobias ellwood they're saying we inherited a lot of debt. well, do you know how much they inherited ? 700 billion of inherited? 700 billion of national it's now 2.5 national debt? it's now 2.5 trillion. and as you quite, quite rightly questioned him , quite rightly questioned him, this is now this conservative government is now corporatist and globalist shows no interest in bringing in the benefits of brexit. whatever they say about immigration, they have no intention to reduce these vast numbers of net migration that are coming into the country every year. this is now a full on social democrat party. okay ,

on social democrat party. okay, so are you saying there's- titi i t i okay, so are you saying there's an epeeteh— so are you saying there's an epeeteh ee— so are you saying there's an epeeteh ee the— so are you saying there's an opening on the right for boris teheeeee— opening on the right for boris johnson?-have- opening on the right for boris johnson? have pivot on a johnson? he'd have to pivot on a ewtehe— johnson? he'd have to pivot on a number-different— johnson? he'd have to pivot on a number different issues, number of different issues, hthht. — number of different issues, right. pro—immigration. number of different issues, right. pto—immigration. number of different issues, right. pto playiigration. number of different issues, right. pto play wellion. number of different issues, right. pto play well ,n. number of different issues, right. pto play well , not that's going to play well, not going— that's going to play well, not goinglplay_ that's going to play well, not going-play well— that's going to play well, not going play well with the going to play well with the eett— going to play well with the tthhtlthe— going to play well with the right the conservative right of the conservative party as right of the conservative party eeleteehe— right of the conservative party eeleteehe .— right of the conservative party as stands . electorate. yeah. as it stands. electorate. yeah. i as it stands. electorate. yeah. t eteee.— as it stands. electorate. yeah. t teeh— as it stands. electorate. yeah. i mean, look, you've- as it stands. electorate. yeah. i mean, look, you've got- as it stands. electorate. yeah. i mean, look, you've got you've got group of mps who are got a group of mps who are dedicated to brexit and getting the benefits of brexit. they want to bring numbers down. they want to bring numbers down. they want to bring numbers down. they want to help small businesses with deregulation . they actually want to help small businesses with de in|ulation . they actually want to help small businesses with de in smaller. they actually want to help small businesses with de in smaller government ly want to help small businesses with de in smaller government .i believe in smaller government. but they're only about three dozen them. fact, we're dozen of them. in fact, we're back we were at the back to where we were at the time maastricht time of the maastricht rebellion. we're back where we were 30 years ago. this is now. you hunt and people like you know, hunt and people like that day that are the modern day incarnation of the howls and herds yesteryear . so to your herds of yesteryear. so to your question , there is now a very question, there is now a very big opening in british politics, just as there was with osborne and cameron, with miliband leading the labour party and clegg and i used to say ten years ago, you can't put a cigarette paper between them. and it was and it was that gap that very effectively that ukip very effectively filled. i think the gap between

westminster and the country is now bigger than it was ten years ago. i think the sense of broken britain, the sense the health service doesn't work anymore , service doesn't work anymore, that people's kids and grandkids can't even get onto the housing ladder.i can't even get onto the housing ladder. i think these things are very, very real. and so there's an enormous opportunity there. now, you're talking about partnership ships. you're talking about— partnership ships. you're talking about going- you're talking about going into petteetehtp— talking about going into partnership boris. talking about going into partnership boris . well, i partnership with boris. well, i hteehtee—t- partnership with boris. well, i disagree—i okay,l disagree with that. i okay, i heewee— disagree with that. i okay, i disagree johnson disagree with boris johnson fundamentally of his fundamentally on many of his metro liberal views . but if metro liberal views. but if anybody can turn on a sixpence and say they now believe in something completely different, it's boris johnson. the important thing to remember is this on the biggest issue of our age, the biggest constitutional question we will face in our lifetimes, most likely nato brexit that boris actually was on the same side as myself and others. there are now , and i've others. there are now, and i've heard it this morning, major conservative donors and supporters who say they will never support the party again. right now . maybe in ten years

right now. maybe in ten years they will, but they will never support the party again. so there is an opportunity if boris johnson wanted to and to use it. and the good side of boris, of course, is as well. just look at today's newspapers . he's very today's newspapers. he's very good at dominating news. he does have personality. he does make people smile. if he wants to people smile. and if he wants to defend his brexit legacy, yeah, well, i want to defend my brexit legacy, too . so would there be a legacy, too. so would there be a possibility of a new coming together on the centre? right? it would be boris johnson. there'll be other mps that would join in with this as well. have you discussed this with boris johnson? directly , johnson? not with him directly, hwt— johnson? not with him directly, hwt .— johnson? not with him directly, hwtt hete— johnson? not with him directly, no. but i have discussed it with people very close to and people very close to him and around this around it. so you've given this eette-teehtt- around it. so you've given this some-thought. i- around it. so you've given this some _thought. i i've. some serious thought. i i've heee— some serious thought. i i've heee wety— some serious thought. i i've been very critical of the way thet— been very critical of the way thet he — been very critical of the way that he handled— been very critical of the way that he handled government, very ettthet— that he handled government, very ettthet thet— that he handled government, very critical that that— that he handled government, very critical that that the advantages - critical that that the advantages of brexit, you know , advantages of brexit, you know, in some areas we— advantages of brexit, you know, in some areas we won foreign pehey— in some areas we won foreign pehey . — in some areas we won foreign pehey . we— in some areas we won foreign policy . we vaccine- in some areas we won foreign policy. e�*tftf policy. we vaccine rollouts. i've been very critical. but but what i think we now face is, is as soon as sunak dropped the piece of legislation that would

have got rid of thousands of eu laws , we knew that we're now laws, we knew that we're now effectively, without saying it, following alignment with what the eu is doing. let that gives labour who are clearly i mean unless something seismic happens going to win that that allows labour to sign us back up to a single market before you know it will be associate members of the european union again. and i, i get a feeling that the brexit battle is going to have to be rethought in some way. i mean, starmer's ruled out— rethought in some way. i mean, starmer's ruled out what- d i i mean, starmer's ruled out what you're ewhgeettee— starmer's ruled out what you're ewhgeettee-he- starmer's ruled out what you're suggesting he doesn't suggesting because he doesn't thteh— suggesting because he doesn't thteh-eppettte- suggesting because he doesn't think appetite for think there's an appetite for te—eetetteh— think there's an appetite for re—entering although re—entering the eu. although i epptehete— appreciate your point about eheeteeet— appreciate your point about alignment shadowing . sorry, alignment and shadowing. sorry, tet-e— alignment and shadowing. sorry, tet-e-heeh— alignment and shadowing. sorry, tet-e-heeh te— alignment and shadowing. sorry, let's-back to this- let's just go back to this ptepeetttee— let's just go back to this. proposition—and proposition of the nige and heee— proposition of the nige and heee petty.— proposition of the nige and heee petty. t— proposition of the nige and boris party. i mean, your tteetheet— boris party. i mean, your president of— boris party. i mean, your president of reform . yeah. can president of reform. yeah. can we hete— president of reform. yeah. can we hewe e— president of reform. yeah. can we have a definitive answer now? are we have a definitive answer now? hee-te— we have a definitive answer now? ate-te he— we have a definitive answer now? ate-te he hetet- we have a definitive answer now? are to be doing more are you going to be doing more tteethee— are you going to be doing more frontline politics? i c frontline politics? i haven't hehheh— frontline politics? i haven't hehheh .— frontline politics? i haven't hehheh . t— frontline politics? i haven't decided . i genuinely haven't decided. i genuinely haven't decided. when we're facing this. whet—e- decided. when we're facing this. whet—e wety- decided. when we're facing this. whet—e wety ;- what you're saying is a very, wety— what you're saying is a very, wety heeeetewe— what you're saying is a very, very dangerous future of your ptehewe— very dangerous future of your precious brexit— very dangerous future of your precious brexit project being reversed. richard tice has got teehtt— reversed. richard tice has got teettet te— reversed. richard tice has got teettet te e— reversed. richard tice has got reform to a respectable , decent reform to a respectable, decent peetttee— reform to a respectable, decent peetttee te— reform to a respectable, decent position in the— reform to a respectable, decent

position in the polls and thank heeheeee— position in the polls and thank peeheeee yew— position in the polls and thank goodness you need your help. he has goodness you need your help. he hee te— goodness you need your help. he hee te het— goodness you need your help. he hee te eet tt— goodness you need your help. he has to get it higher. 't: has to get it higher. and i wewth— has to get it higher. and i wewth eth— has to get it higher. and i would and i— has to get it higher. and i would and i would need other people's he's not got people's help. he's not got enough to win any seats. nigel, as you know. no. and if i do, you— as you know. no. and if i do, you know what join tomorrow you know what if i join tomorrow and right, giving and said, right, i'm giving everything go everything up. i'm going to go campaigning time. i know campaigning full time. i know exactly where we'd we'd be exactly where we'd be. we'd be between 5 million votes. between 4 and 5 million votes. you get more votes you know, we'd get more votes than got. it's still than ukip got. but it's still not enough. so how would you weh— not enough. so how would you weh-hete— not enough. so how would you work-boris if— not enough. so how would you work-boris if that?- not enough. so how would you work-boris if that? i- tig so how would you work boris if that? i know work with boris if that? i know wehe-the— work with boris if that? i know we're-the land- work with boris if that? i know we're-the land of. we're talking in the land of hypethetteet— we're talking in the land of hypothetical, completely hypothetical, a completely eepetete— hypothetical, a completely separate _you - hypothetical, a completely separate you want hypothetical, a completely- separate _you want to separate party. no you want to pwtt— separate party. no you want to pwtt hte — separate party. no you want to pwtt hte hete— separate party. no you want to pull him into reform, you know. do pull him into reform, you know. he yew— pull him into reform, you know. he yew hhew.— pull him into reform, you know. do you know, setting— pull him into reform, you know. do you know, setting up- pull him into reform, you know. do you know, setting up new political very political parties is a very difficult thing to do. reform has a base . it has a structure. has a base. it has a structure. and who knows ? i mean, maybe if and who knows? i mean, maybe if the brexit battle is going to be is going to be reformed, we'll go back to the old name of the brexit say ? i brexit party. who's to say? i said, i've said it for six months. so you're talking about you months. so you're talking about yewtew-e— months. so you're talking about you - revive - brexit - you might revive the brexit tetty. — you might revive the brexit tetty. .t— you might revive the brexit tetty. .tt te— you might revive the brexit party. it is actually party. well it is actually teehtt— party. well it is actually teettet te— party. well it is actually reform is the— party. well it is actually reform is the brexit party. tte— reform is the brexit party. tt-e teet— reform is the brexit party. we test e— reform is the brexit party. it's just a change- reform is the brexit party. it's just a change of- reform is the brexit party. it's just a change of name. if the brexit battle has to be rethought, that's what we'll do. obviously so you've still got an

eppettte— obviously so you've still got an eppettte tet— obviously so you've still got an eppettte tet ett— obviously so you've still got an appetite for all this— so you've still got an appetite for all this because i hhew— appetite for all this because i heew yewte— appetite for all this because i know you're pushing for proportional— know you're pushing for. proportional-ation proportional represent ation pteheety— proportional represent ation ptehethet— proportional represent ation precistthat you— proportional represent ation precistthat you push a boulder up made that you push a boulder up a-yu_ made that you push a boulder up a-yu-get- made that you push a boulder up e-yew-eet tewehl made that you push a boulder up e-yew-eet teweh tei a hill and you don't get much in tetwe —te— a hill and you don't get much in return. _in the- a hill and you don't get much in return. _in the past,| return. yeah. see, in the past, in the past it didn't matter, you know, even though i was immensely cheesed off in 2015 to get 4 million votes and one seat, but it was all pushing towards that referendum . towards that great referendum. now what need, if we're going now what we need, if we're going to british politics as it to bust british politics as it is , if we're going to recognise is, if we're going to recognise the fact actually the the fact that actually the differences and differences between labour and conservative pretty minimal, differences between labour and conseimarginal pretty minimal, differences between labour and conseimarginal inretty minimal, differences between labour and conseimarginal in everyninimal, differences between labour and conseimarginal in every way, al, differences between labour and conseimarginal in every way, if, pretty marginal in every way, if we want a new kind of politics, you know, the hope was that brexit would give us a new kind of it's the old of politics. it's still the old politics. still the politics. it's still the oxbridge that's what oxbridge politics. that's what we have both. but then you're we have in both. but then you're tethteh— we have in both. but then you're tethteh ehewt— we have in both. but then you're talking about pairing— we have in both. but then you're talking about pairing up- i but then you're talking about pairing up with an oxbridge— talking about pairing up with an oxbridge candidate. old oxbridge candidate. yes an old ttehee.— oxbridge candidate. yes an old. ttehee—whe etonian. but would you work with him etonian. but would you work with the e— etonian. but would you work with the 7 he— etonian. but would you work with the 7 he there— etonian. but would you work with him ? is there enough space in him? is there enough space in pehthet— him? is there enough space in one political party? nigel him? is there enough space in one pofor:al party? nigel him? is there enough space in one pofor nigelty? nigel him? is there enough space in one pofor nigel farage el him? is there enough space in one pofor nigel farage and farage for nigel farage and hete— farage for nigel farage and boris johnson? _ farage for nigel farage and borisjohnson? �*vit�*ticc farage for nigel farage and boris johnson? �*vit�*ticc tilt borisjohnson? well, i'm very easy , obviously, we'll easy going, obviously, so we'll have i mean, we are talking hypotheticals, but it but the whole brexit project is under threat . we are a country in

threat. we are a country in decline. this needs to be turned around. if we had pr , i'd give around. if we had pr, i'd give you very different answers . we you very different answers. we don't to break the first past the post system , to break the the post system, to break the mould, to quote a phrase from roy jenkins from 40 years ago. and didn't quite do it. and they didn't quite do it. we're going to need a number of serious household names. it cannot be just seemed to be me. and what about the criticism thet— and what about the criticism thet yew— and what about the criticism thet yew eee— and what about the criticism that you can do— and what about the criticism that you can do this? i mean, we etteehy— that you can do this? i mean, we etteehy heew— that you can do this? i mean, we already know from _ that you can do this? i mean, we already know from the pr voting or already know from the pr voting et te— already know from the pr voting et te tt— already know from the pr voting et te tt tehee— already know from the pr voting or is it voting, rather, in the weeh— or is it voting, rather, in the weeh thet— or is it voting, rather, in the week that actually if reform heee— week that actually if reform heee eteet— week that actually if reform does stand candidates against the conservatives, then you both heee— the conservatives, then you both heee-tehew— the conservatives, then you both lose-labour wins— the conservatives, then you both lose-labour wins ?- the conservatives, then you both lose labour wins ? well, lose and labour wins? well, tehew— lose and labour wins? well, labour-anyway,- lose and labour wins? well, labour anyway, right? labour labour win anyway, right? labour win labour win anyway, right? labour wte eeywey. — labour win anyway, right? labour wte eeywey. heh— labour win anyway, right? labour win anyway. and i— labour win anyway, right? labour win anyway. ' i win anyway. and i mean, what conservative party? how are they even vaguely conservative apart from corporates ? on from the big corporates? on whose they actually on? whose side are they actually on? so are you going to be holding teeettehee— meetings? i mean, after you teete— meetings? i mean, after you eete-ewhe,— meetings? i mean, after you. leave-studio,-you leave the studio, what are you thtehtehe— leave the studio, what are you thinking?-going- leave the studio, what are you thinking? going to phone thinking? are you going to phone hettee— thinking? are you going to phone boris?-90in9_ thinking? are you going to phone hettee-heteh te- thinking? are you going to phone boris? going to phone boris? are you going to phone —eey- boris? are you going to phone —eey goihgl some donors? are you going to get some donors? are you going to eet-heth— some donors? are you going to. get-band-together? get a little band back together? i get a little band back together? t—hehe- get a little band back together? i_boris johnson. i you know, look, boris johnson did expect report did not expect that report on friday. i doubt given this did not expect that report on fimoment's bt given this did not expect that report on fimoment's thought. iven this did not expect that report on fimoment's thought. iven whilst a moment's thought. but whilst everybody talks about the civil

war, potential civil war war, the potential civil war within party , i within the conservative party, i repeat message. he's run out within the conservative party, i re|road message. he's run out within the conservative party, i re|road withiessage. he's run out within the conservative party, i re|road with the age. he's run out within the conservative party, i re|road with the conservative out of road with the conservative party. if he wants a future in british then he's british politics, then he's going to have to take on something much than he's something much bigger than he's ever before. one something much bigger than he's ever before . one more ever done before. one more hweettee— ever done before. one more hweettee ee— ever done before. one more question on another- one more question on another blonde trump the indictment.— question on another blonde trump the indictment. your reaction? twhewheeey— the indictment. your reaction? extraordinary. i— the indictment. your reaction? extraordinary. i spoke- the indictment. your reaction? extraordinary. i spoke yesterday to a former state attorney general, two term, 40 years a lawyer. he said never in his life had he seen a prosecution who, before they get to court, are releasing photographs of proof and evidence of why the suspect himars his presidential ambitions to serve another term. i mean , it's not the greatest i mean, it's not the greatest tet— i mean, it's not the greatest news for him,— i mean, it's not the greatest news for him, is— i mean, it's not the greatest news for him, is it? \tit c news for him, is it? no, it's eet.— news for him, is it? no, it's not hwt— news for him, is it? no, it's not hwt tt— news for him, is it? no, it's not. but it was expected . maybe not. but it was expected. maybe it emboldens the— not. but it was expected. maybe it emboldens the fan— c c i: maybe it emboldens the fan base. i hee-t— it emboldens the fan base. i hee-t heew. — it emboldens the fan base. i don't know. the.— it emboldens the fan base. i don't know. the. oh it certainly etehetheee— don't know. the. oh it certainly emboldens the— don't know. the. oh it certainly emboldens the fan base. i emboldens the fan base. i mean, oh, emboldens the fan base. i mean, eh teeh— emboldens the fan base. i mean, eh hot. the— emboldens the fan base. i mean, oh, look, the maga go mega. yeah.i oh, look, the maga go mega. yeah. i mean, you know, be in no doubt about that. i mean, there is almost nothing that can happen that doesn't get trump to win the nomination. the bigger question is how much damage does

this do to voters in the middle ? how do they see this? do they see as an all out political see this as an all out political assault coming directly the assault coming directly from the white house with the politicisation of the judiciary? or do they think , well, there's or do they think, well, there's no smoke without fire that question we can't answer at this stage, none this affects stage, but none of this affects trump, opinion , winning trump, in my opinion, winning the nomination going to be the nomination is going to be discussing with mick discussing all that with mick mulvaney little in the mulvaney a little later in the show, should good. show, so that should be good. his staff, his former chief of staff, tteet— his former chief of staff,| nigel,-coming nigel, thanks for coming in on a swehey. — nigel, thanks for coming in on a swehey. -weh— nigel, thanks for coming in on a sunday. -work you- nigel, thanks for coming in on a sunday. work you hard here, sunday. they work you hard here, hee-t— sunday. they work you hard here, heth—teeh- sunday. they work you hard here, hee-t—heeh eel don't they? and you're back on air don't they? and you're back on he teteettew— don't they? and you're back on air tomorrow-back- air tomorrow at 7:00, back on air tomorrow at 7:00, back on ett—epehetl air tomorrow at 7:00, back oni eh—epehet. air tomorrow with a special. eh.— air tomorrow with a special. ohlcee-t— air tomorrow with a special. ohlcee-t eey— air tomorrow with a special. oh,ican't say what- air tomorrow with a special. oh,ican't say what it- air tomorrow with a special. oh,ican't say what it is- air tomorrow with a special. titii c all oh, i can't say what it is. all right. very intriguing.- titii c all right. very intriguing. thank you— right. very intriguing. thank yew eeey— right. very intriguing. thank yew very-tteet - right. very intriguing. thank you very nigel. lots more you very much, nigel. lots more eth— you very much, nigel. lots more etttt te— you very much, nigel. lots more etttt te eetee— you very much, nigel. lots more still to come. it's— you very much, nigel. lots more still to come. it's been a huge weeh—whe- still to come. it's been a huge week—with ukrainel week in ukraine with ukraine teweehteh— week in ukraine with ukraine launching-long- week in ukraine with ukraine launching long awaited launching its long awaited counteroffensive and the destruction _ counteroffensive and the destruction of- counteroffensive and the destruction of the kakhovka dam . hehhewhe— destruction of the kakhovka dam . kakhovka easy— destruction of the kakhovka dam . kakhovka easy for me to say , . kakhovka easy for me to say, heth. — . kakhovka easy for me to say, heth. heh— . kakhovka easy for me to say, heth. heh te— . kakhovka easy for me to say, heth. heh te e— . kakhovka easy for me to say, dam. and in a minute i'm going to dam. and in a minute i'm going te he— dam. and in a minute i'm going te he epeehteh— dam. and in a minute i'm going to be speaking yuri sack, to be speaking to yuri sack, a hhtetetee— to be speaking to yuri sack, a ukrainian ministry of defence ethhet— ukrainian ministry of defence official. anywhere

gb news britain as news. channel welcome back to the camilla tominey show. i'm just reeling hete— tominey show. i'm just reeling ttee thy— tominey show. i'm just reeling from my interview— tominey show. i'm just reeling from my interview with- itig i'm just reeling from my interview with nigel hetete,— from my interview with nigel hetete, whete — from my interview with nigel farage, where he's suggesting he wewthe-t—tete- farage, where he's suggesting he wouldn't—into bat- wouldn't mind going into bat wtth— wouldn't mind going into bat wtth hete— wouldn't mind going into bat with boris-tom - wouldn't mind going into bat with boris tom harwood with boris johnson, tom harwood is with boris johnson, tom harwood he he— with boris johnson, tom harwood is in southampton— with boris johnson, tom harwood is in southampton with the teepte-e— is in southampton with the people's panel— is in southampton with the people's panel dying to know tom whet— people's panel dying to know tom whet tetee— people's panel dying to know tom whet htehe eth— people's panel dying to know tom what emma and howard make of the tetewtewe— what emma and howard make of the tetetwtewe .— what emma and howard make of the interviews . would— what emma and howard make of the interviews . would they back a interviews. would they back a hete— interviews. would they back a hette hetete— interviews. would they back a boris farage party? c cgti; boris farage party? it's a huge, huge— boris farage party? it's a huge, huge question , isn't it? camilla huge question, isn't it? camilla we're here again in the boat house cafe just outside southampton. let's turn to howard first, because it seemed like nigel was almost talking to

your tune about perhaps joining forces with boris johnson. i thought he was listening to me . thought he was listening to me. i thought he was listening to me. t thteh— thought he was listening to me. tthteh thet-e— thought he was listening to me. i think that's a— thought he was listening to me. i think that's a great idea . but i think that's a great idea. but even more than— i think that's a great idea. but even more than that, i think tteet— even more than that, i think htpet heeptte— even more than that, i think nigel, despite what he said ehewt— nigel, despite what he said about richard— nigel, despite what he said about richard tice doing a good job, about richard tice doing a good teh he-e— about richard tice doing a good rep, he-e hehh— about richard tice doing a good rep, he-e heteh e— about richard tice doing a good job, he's doing a great job. but i job, he's doing a great job. but tthteh— job, he's doing a great job. but tthteh te— job, he's doing a great job. but tthteh te pwt— job, he's doing a great job. but i think to put nigel back where he ehewth— i think to put nigel back where he ehewth he,— i think to put nigel back where he should be, i— i think to put nigel back where he should be, i think in the hetete— he should be, i think in the hetete petty— he should be, i think in the reform party or— he should be, i think in the reform party or previous brexit, wh— reform party or previous brexit, hhtt pethee— reform party or previous brexit, ukip parties would give it the heeet— ukip parties would give it the heeet thet-e— ukip parties would give it the boost that's needed that could hte— boost that's needed that could ehe thee — boost that's needed that could the them e— boost that's needed that could give them a better result than thh— give them a better result than hhtt et— give them a better result than ukip or brexit— give them a better result than ukip or brexit ever got in hehheh— ukip or brexit ever got in british politics. c ' ukip or brexit ever got in british politics. c british politics. acas it was interesting what nigel said about talking to people not talking to boris johnson himself, but talking to people close to boris johnson. do you think that those two men could work well together ? well, work well together? well, nigel's been quite- work well together? well, nigel's been quite a- g 7 well, nigel's been quite a strong ethe— nigel's been quite a strong ette et— nigel's been quite a strong critic of boris,— nigel's been quite a strong critic of boris, so hopefully hete— critic of boris, so hopefully boris could— critic of boris, so hopefully boris could get— critic of boris, so hopefully boris could get over that and whet— boris could get over that and htget eewth— boris could get over that and nigel could get— boris could get over that and nigel could get over his etttthete. — nigel could get over his criticism. and- nigel could get over his criticism. and i think as pehthe— criticism. and i think as politics opens, the two of them eewth — politics opens, the two of them eewth hteh— politics opens, the two of them could bring british politics teeh— could bring british politics heeh te— could bring british politics back to where _ could bring british politics back to where i personally think it back to where i personally think tt ewhht— back to where i personally think tt ewhht te— back to where i personally think tt ewhht te he— back to where i personally think it ought to be in— back to where i personally think it ought to be in more conservative- it ought to be in more conservative values with lower

tehetee— conservative values with lower texettee ee — conservative values with lower taxation on migration, kerb ing and taxation on migration, kerb ing eeh eee— taxation on migration, kerb ing eeh teee— taxation on migration, kerb ing and even less of— taxation on migration, kerb ing and even less of a— taxation on migration, kerb ing and even less of a rabid green theetehy— and even less of a rabid green theetegy. — and even less of a rabid green ideology . although- and even less of a rabid green ideology. g g ideology. although interesting given boris johnson's sort of closeness, i suppose, to that green ideas , he wanted one of green ideas, he wanted one of his big legacies to be cop 26 and all the rest of it. emma let's turn to you because barry gardiner was fairly interesting with what he had to say, talking about how the labour party wouldn't want do any pacts wouldn't want to do any pacts with other do you with other parties. do you believe him ? i think that labour believe him? i think that labour , like all other parties , will , like all other parties, will will do a pact if it is in their best interests. i, i think they all best interests. i, i think they eh wewth. — best interests. i, i think they eh wewth. .— best interests. i, i think they all would. i think— i, i think they all would. i think that you know , if all would. i think that you know , t tt— all would. i think that you know , t tt ee— all would. i think that you know , t tt te— all would. i think that you know , if it came to it,— all would. i think that you know , if it came to it, i— all would. i think that you know , if it came to it, i mean we hee-t— , if it came to it, i mean we hee-t heew— , if it came to it, i mean we don't know what's- , if it came to it, i mean we don't know what's in the future, hew— don't know what's in the future, hew the — don't know what's in the future, hew the text— don't know what's in the future, how the next election is going to how the next election is going te weh— how the next election is going te weh ewt. — how the next election is going to work out. but— how the next election is going to work out. but if it's to thett— to work out. but if it's to their advantage to into their advantage to go into a pet— pact with someone who's ideologically— pact with someone who's ideologically aligned , then to ideologically aligned, then to increase their— ideologically aligned, then to increase their their dominance increase their their dominance te te— increase their their dominance he he e— increase their their dominance in in a legislature , i don't

in in a legislature, i don't thteh— in in a legislature, i don't thteh they— in in a legislature, i don't think they would turn down that eppettwetty— think they would turn down that eppettwetty. — think they would turn down that opportunity . g opportunity. interesting. perhaps all politicians are the same. and to both of you, howard and emma tobias ellwood was scathing in his response to bods scathing in his response to boris johnson and indeed boris johnson's allies . he said that johnson's allies. he said that bods johnson's allies. he said that boris johnson is no church . il boris johnson is no church. il what is happening is akin to mutiny against rishi sunak do you agree with her? i don't think so. i think— you agree with her? i don't think so. i think boris- titg”titi; iti;”7 i don't think so. i think boris is ttytee— think so. i think boris is ttytep te— think so. i think boris is ttytep te he— think so. i think boris is trying to do something that he thtehe— trying to do something that he thtehe te— trying to do something that he thinks is correct— trying to do something that he thinks is correct for the eewetty. — thinks is correct for the eewetty. .— thinks is correct for the country. i was- thinks is correct for the country. i was surprised that thet— country. i was surprised that thet tehee— country. i was surprised that that tobias was— country. i was surprised that that tobias was so vitriolic. i , .— that tobias was so vitriolic. i mean , i even commented at the mean, i even commented at the htee— mean, i even commented at the thee he-e— mean, i even commented at the thee the e— mean, i even commented at the thee the e ph— mean, i even commented at the time he's a bit like— mean, i even commented at the time he's a bit like angela heyeet— time he's a bit like angela rayner there— time he's a bit like angela rayner there and we need to see more cohesiveness— rayner there and we need to see more cohesiveness within the party— more cohesiveness within the petty eth— more cohesiveness within the petty eeh eet— more cohesiveness within the petty eeh eet ee— more cohesiveness within the party and not so much infighting . heh— party and not so much infighting . heh pm...— party and not so much infighting . and emma, would— party and not so much infighting . and emma, would you- party and not so much infighting . and emma, would you agree with that? yeah, i mean , talking that? yeah, i mean, talking ehewt— that? yeah, i mean, talking ehewt the— that? yeah, i mean, talking about the church,- cititc7 yeah, i mean, talking about the church, churchill the— about the church, churchill versus the johnsonian times , i versus the johnsonian times, i they-te— versus the johnsonian times, i mean, they're both completely hhtteteet— mean, they're both completely different eras. _ mean, they're both completely different eras. itig gtit different eras. they've both got different eras. they've both got different values attached to them. i think back in church, them. i think back in church, the second world war, there's a lot more there's a lot

lot more loyalty, there's a lot more , you know, respect for the more, you know, respect for the politicians in power. whereas these days that's, you know, there's hardly any loyalty. there's no respect. and, you know , i suppose in boris's eyes, know, i suppose in boris's eyes, he's given all he can with his various inquiries. just question after question after question. it's still not improved his own situation. he's tried to for the rights and wrongs. i know that, you know, there are critics of him and there are, you know , but him and there are, you know, but he i'm not saying he's done right. i'm not saying he's done wrong. i kind of, you know, in the middle. but i just think these different times now. these are different times now. people different people just sort of different values and, know, he's he's values and, you know, he's he's done all he to . can be to be done all he to. can be to be transparent and to. but it's just. yeah, yeah. well own interest, i guess. well, thank you— interest, i guess. well, thank yew heth— interest, i guess. well, thank you both emma— interest, i guess. well, thank you both emma and- xti”ti;xic g well, thank you both emma and howard for thet.— you both emma and howard for thet. hte— you both emma and howard for that. it's been— you both emma and howard for that. it's been an— you both emma and howard for that. it's been an absolutely teeeheetheh— that. it's been an absolutely fascinating set— that. it's been an absolutely fascinating set of interviews. heh— fascinating set of interviews. heh whth— fascinating set of interviews. and with that,— fascinating set of interviews. and with that, i'll hand back to yew.— and with that, i'll hand back to yet teehtte— and with that, i'll hand back to you. camilla. thank you very tewet— you. camilla. thank you very much indeed— you. camilla. thank you very much indeed for— you. camilla. thank you very much indeed for that. i

much indeed for that. tom in sewtheetptee— much indeed for that. tom in southampton . don't forget, if southampton. don't forget, if you want to to you want to apply to the people's panel, it's gb news .com slash panel . now, .com forward slash panel. now, michael defence michael portillo, former defence secretary and gb news presenter from 11, joins me . a penny for from 11, joins me. a penny for your very valuable thoughts michael. well michael buerk earlier said that you either hate or love boris there hate it or love boris and there was the middle. i am was no one in the middle. i am in the middle. ah, i i i am in the middle. ah, i thought he was a chaotic— in the middle. ah, i thought he was a chaotic minister was a chaotic prime minister and i was a chaotic prime minister and h—hel was a chaotic prime minister and hlhthwee—hel was a chaotic prime minister and i.driven from _he i was a chaotic prime minister and i driven from power. he was a chaotic prime minister and i driven from power. i he was a chaotic prime minister and i driven from power. i thought was driven from power. i thought the-ehewt— was driven from power. i thought the-ehewt the— was driven from power. i thought the about the parties was the stuff about the parties was wett— the stuff about the parties was weh—eeet- the stuff about the parties was. well—cost him. well overdone. again cost him. i well overdone. again cost him. h eteee.— well overdone. again cost him. h h— well overdone. again cost him. i mean, i think— well overdone. again cost him. i mean, i think he— well overdone. again cost him. i mean, i think he was- well overdone. again cost him. i mean, i think he was caught in a series of unfortunate situations anyway. he paid with his political life in the sense that he ceased to be prime minister. and i think the house of commons have left it of commons could have left it there think try and harry there. i think to try and harry him out of the house of commons to pursue this inquiry into whether misled the house of whether he misled the house of commons. i agree with boris on this. has been this. i think this has been a wrong do. man wrong thing to do. if the man had wrong , he wrong thing to do. if the man had wrong, he had paid the had done wrong, he had paid the severest price. and you know, when you are a minister you are given a bit of paper by a civil servant and you do go into the house of and you read

servant and you do go into the houbitof and you read servant and you do go into the hou bit of and you read servant and you do go into the houbit of paper. and you read servant and you do go into the houbit of paper. yes.nd you read servant and you do go into the houbit of paper. yes. and )u read servant and you do go into the houbit of paper. yes. and if read the bit of paper. yes. and if they've know, we can they've said, you know, we can assure there would be assure you that there would be no parties or whatever that is what out. i cannot what you read out. now, i cannot say exactly what say whether that's exactly what happened, but i think it's marginal. the house happened, but i think it's mecommons the house happened, but i think it's mecommons has the house happened, but i think it's mecommons has looked e house happened, but i think it's mecommons has looked veryuse of commons has looked very vindictive going the vindictive by going after the man's as as job as man's seat as well as his job as our first minister. you'll have heard-colleague- our first minister. you'll have heard-colleague nigel- ” it. i you'll have heard colleague nigel farage heard our colleague nigel farage talk heard our colleague nigel farage teth-ht— heard our colleague nigel farage teth-ht hehhe— heard our colleague nigel farage talk-it being the- heard our colleague nigel farage talk it being the end of talk about it being the end of heee— talk about it being the end of hethe he— talk about it being the end of boris in conservative politics, hwt— boris in conservative politics, hwt eet— boris in conservative politics, but not politics— boris in conservative politics, but not politics per se. do you eetee— but not politics per se. do you ehee whth— but not politics per se. do you agree with that— but not politics per se. do you agree with that ? _ but not politics per se. do you agree with that ? : agree with that? boris has done himself immense damage in the last 48 hours because conservative mps don't want all these by elections . is it going these by elections. is it going to everybody's life much to make everybody's life much worse? it certainly raises worse? and it certainly raises the of disloyalty not the charge of disloyalty and not playing the game. i think he might yet be a conservative member of parliament because that depends or it should depend . least should depend on . at least it should depend on the choosing the local association choosing him. but it is the end of him. yes, but it is the end of bodsin him. yes, but it is the end of boris in a meaningful way in conservative politics. i also somewhat sympathise with what nigel farage was saying. i think this quite important this is quite an important stage in story and i think in the brexit story and i think a bit of brexit is undone with all of this. yes > who have you

got all of this. yes > who have you get eetetee— all of this. yes > who have you get eetehep wp— all of this. yes > who have you get eetehep wp ee— all of this. yes > who have you got coming up on the- “c25 > who have you got coming up on the show at 11 hete— got coming up on the show at 11 hethe hee— got coming up on the show at 11 boris free zone— got coming up on the show at 11 boris free zone ? _ got coming up on the show at 11 boris free zone ? oi titig : boris free zone? oh, anybody who doesn't about doesn't want to talk about boris, listen to my boris, come and listen to my show. going to be talking show. we're going to be talking about the ethics of the government's policy government's immigration policy . talking .we're going to be talking about play , about a wonderful play, accidental of an accidental death of an anarchist, which is really a focus on the metropolitan police. we're going to be talking about the saudi takeover of golf and we're going to have live reports from ukraine. brilliant stuff. look forward to it. brilliant stuff. look forward to ht. hheeh— brilliant stuff. look forward to ht. hheeh yew— brilliant stuff. look forward to it. thank you very much, michael . hew,— it. thank you very much, michael . hew, tethheh— it. thank you very much, michael . now, talking of— it. thank you very much, michael . now, talking of ukraine, i'm hethhhteh— . now, talking of ukraine, i'm hethohteh te— . now, talking of ukraine, i'm delighted to be— . now, talking of ukraine, i'm delighted to be joined now by you,— delighted to be joined now by yew heeet— delighted to be joined now by you, isaak, who— delighted to be joined now by you, isaak, who is an adviser eth— you, isaak, who is an adviser and spokesperson for the hhtehehee— and spokesperson for the ukrainian ministry of defence. hwt— ukrainian ministry of defence. hwt hepetwtty— ukrainian ministry of defence. yuri, hopefully we've got a good eteet— yuri, hopefully we've got a good eteet thee— yuri, hopefully we've got a good eteet thee te— yuri, hopefully we've got a good clear line to you. _ yuri, hopefully we've got a good clear line to you. thanks so tewet— clear line to you. thanks so teweh tet— clear line to you. thanks so much for joining— clear line to you. thanks so much for joining today. clear line to you. thanks so much forjoining today. look, much for joining me today. look, wehe-tet— much for joining me today. look, we're-lot about- much for joining me today. look, we're-lot about the . we're reading a lot about the hhtehehee— we're reading a lot about the ukrainian offensive, ukrainian counter offensive, petthewtetty— ukrainian counter offensive, particularly some of the tetthtety— particularly some of the territory that _ particularly some of the territory that you've advanced in territory that you've advanced he hehhtewt. — territory that you've advanced in bakhmut. how's it going ? in bakhmut. how's it going? um, teeh— in bakhmut. how's it going? um, good thetthee.— in bakhmut. how's it going? um, good morning, camilla,- in bakhmut. how's it going? um, good morning, camilla, and many thanks for inviting me . it's thanks for inviting me. it's going according to plan of our tehthtety— going according to plan of our

military command . um, one thing military command. um, one thing thet— military command. um, one thing thet h— military command. um, one thing thet h wewth— military command. um, one thing that i would like— military command. um, one thing that i would like to— military command. um, one thing that i would like to stress from the eteet— that i would like to stress from the etett he— that i would like to stress from the start is that— that i would like to stress from the start is that one of the were— the start is that one of the worst things— the start is that one of the worst things you can do when yewte— worst things you can do when yewhe thetthee— worst things you can do when you're fighting a— worst things you can do when you're fighting a war like this is you're fighting a war like this he te— you're fighting a war like this is to underestimate your enemy. so is to underestimate your enemy. se we— is to underestimate your enemy. so we understand. _ is to underestimate your enemy. so we understand. we know from our intelligence— so we understand. we know from our intelligence that this is an eeetey— our intelligence that this is an eeeey whheh— our intelligence that this is an enemy which is— our intelligence that this is an enemy which is capable of eetetehtthee— enemy which is capable of committing atrocity , is capable committing atrocity, is capable of committing atrocity, is capable et eetetehttheh— committing atrocity, is capable of committing terrorist acts, as we hete— of committing terrorist acts, as we have seen with— of committing terrorist acts, as we have seen with the blowing up of we have seen with the blowing up et the— we have seen with the blowing up of the kakhovka— we have seen with the blowing up of the kakhovka dam . this is an of the kakhovka dam. this is an eeetey— of the kakhovka dam. this is an eeeey whheh— of the kakhovka dam. this is an enemy which in— of the kakhovka dam. this is an enemy which in many respects has more weapons that— enemy which in many respects has more weapons that ukrainian eeey.— more weapons that ukrainian ettey. ht— more weapons that ukrainian ettey. ht he— more weapons that ukrainian ettey. ht he ht— more weapons that ukrainian army. it is it outnumbers us and it army. it is it outnumbers us and ht he— army. it is it outnumbers us and ht he ee— army. it is it outnumbers us and ht he ee eeetey— army. it is it outnumbers us and it is an enemy that— army. it is it outnumbers us and it is an enemy that for the last we..— it is an enemy that for the last w... ht— it is an enemy that for the last w... ht eet— it is an enemy that for the last three, if not more— it is an enemy that for the last three, if not more months has heee— three, if not more months has been building— three, if not more months has been building very strongly tetththeh— been building very strongly fortified defence lines. i mean, et— fortified defence lines. i mean, some of these— fortified defence lines. i mean, some of these defence lines, they— some of these defence lines, they ee— some of these defence lines, they ;— some of these defence lines, they , yew— some of these defence lines, they are , you know, reminiscent they are, you know, reminiscent of they are, you know, reminiscent et wetth— they are, you know, reminiscent et wetth wet— they are, you know, reminiscent of world war two _ they are, you know, reminiscent of world war two defence lines now. nevertheless— of world war two defence lines now. nevertheless we as a hhtehehee— now. nevertheless we as a ukrainian army— now. nevertheless we as a ukrainian army , we are focussed ukrainian army, we are focussed on ukrainian army, we are focussed ee eeewpyheh— ukrainian army, we are focussed ee eeewpyhep ew— ukrainian army, we are focussed on occupying our land and just threw— on occupying our land and just thtetetty tee — on occupying our land and just literally ten minutes before i

came on your show, we had news thet— came on your show, we had news thet eeethet— came on your show, we had news that another village— came on your show, we had news that another village was the eeewpheh — that another village was the eeewpheh hy— that another village was the occupied by the _ that another village was the occupied by the ukrainian army in occupied by the ukrainian army he the— occupied by the ukrainian army he the eeet— occupied by the ukrainian army in the east of— occupied by the ukrainian army in the east of ukraine and the hhtehehee— in the east of ukraine and the ukrainian flag— in the east of ukraine and the ukrainian flag was raised . so we ukrainian flag was raised. so we hee-t— ukrainian flag was raised. so we hee-t hete— ukrainian flag was raised. so we hee-t hewe te— ukrainian flag was raised. so we don't have to already run whetety— don't have to already run whetety hepe— don't have to already run whetety tepe ;— don't have to already run victory laps , but we have to be victory laps, but we have to be hwhetty— victory laps, but we have to be quietly optimistic— victory laps, but we have to be quietly optimistic and we have to quietly optimistic and we have te tewet— quietly optimistic and we have te ttwet he— quietly optimistic and we have to trust in the— quietly optimistic and we have to trust in the ukrainian armed tehee— to trust in the ukrainian armed teteee eth— to trust in the ukrainian armed teteee eeh he— to trust in the ukrainian armed forces and in our— to trust in the ukrainian armed forces and in our partners. and i forces and in our partners. and h wewth— forces and in our partners. and h wewth the— forces and in our partners. and i would like to— forces and in our partners. and i would like to use— forces and in our partners. and i would like to use this eppettwehty— i would like to use this opportunity to thank the united kingdom— opportunity to thank the united hheohete tet— opportunity to thank the united kingdom for standing with hhtehee— kingdom for standing with ukraine from _ kingdom for standing with ukraine from day one of this invasion. and— ukraine from day one of this invasion. and the fact that yewte— invasion. and the fact that you're one-first- you're one of the first countries— you're one of the first countries who yesterday announced be announced that you will be eeehheh— announced that you will be sending ukraine £16 million peeheee— sending ukraine £16 million peeheoe twehe— sending ukraine £16 million package funds for dealing with the tettewt— package funds for dealing with the fallout of— package funds for dealing with the fallout of the— package funds for dealing with the fallout of the terrorist act in the fallout of the terrorist act he hehewhe — the fallout of the terrorist act in kahovka dam.— the fallout of the terrorist act in kahovka dam. so thank you . in kahovka dam. so thank you. the— in kahovka dam. so thank you. the hehheh— in kahovka dam. so thank you. the british people and the hehheh— the british people and the british government for this ewppett— british government for this ewppett. — british government for this support . you've- british government for this support . /titc i g : support. you've congratulated the british government on their support of ukraine, but are the western world in general and indeed eu countries doing enough to help you try and reclaim more of your own territory . we see of your own territory. we see that our western—

” titti (it: we see that our western partners stand whth— that our western partners stand whth we— that our western partners stand whth we eth— that our western partners stand with us and their— that our western partners stand with us and their support is wtwewehe— with us and their support is wtwewehe .— with us and their support is unwavering . now, of course, in unwavering. now, of course, in eeey— unwavering. now, of course, in many cases we wish that in petthewtet— many cases we wish that in particular military support wewth— particular military support wewth he— particular military support would be provided to us faster heee— would be provided to us faster because we've— would be provided to us faster because we've said it many times thet— because we've said it many times thet the— because we've said it many times that the russian _ because we've said it many times that the russian terrorists are wehe— that the russian terrorists are who htee— that the russian terrorists are weheo thee ee— that the russian terrorists are using time as weapon. we must not using time as weapon. we must eet ehew— using time as weapon. we must not allow them _ using time as weapon. we must not allow them to _ using time as weapon. we must not allow them to weaponize thtee. — not allow them to weaponize the. se— not allow them to weaponize time. so some— not allow them to weaponize time. so some of— not allow them to weaponize time. so some of the decisions by time. so some of the decisions hy ew— time. so some of the decisions hy weetete— time. so some of the decisions by our western partners that hewe— by our western partners that hewe heee— by our western partners that have been made— by our western partners that have been made already, like, for have been made already, like, tet exempte— have been made already, like, for example, the— have been made already, like, for example, the formation of the coalition— for example, the formation of the coalition that could have heppeeeh— the coalition that could have happened faster. _ the coalition that could have happened faster. things like tehetee— happened faster. things like ttehehee et— happened faster. things like training of ukrainian pilots and t—he— training of ukrainian pilots and the thet— training of ukrainian pilots and f—16 that should— training of ukrainian pilots and f—16 that should have been well wehetwey— f—16 that should have been well wehetwey hy— f—16 that should have been well wehetwey hy eew— f—16 that should have been well underway by now. and it took us a underway by now. and it took us e teee— underway by now. and it took us e heee htee— underway by now. and it took us e teeo thee te— underway by now. and it took us a long time to, first— underway by now. and it took us a long time to, first of all, convince our— a long time to, first of all, convince our partners . and convince our partners. and eeeeh— convince our partners. and eeeeh et— convince our partners. and second of all,— convince our partners. and second of all, you know, we weheteteeh— second of all, you know, we understand that,— second of all, you know, we understand that, thankfully. but tteet— understand that, thankfully. but eeet et— understand that, thankfully. but eeet et the— understand that, thankfully. but most of the european countries at most of the european countries et the— most of the european countries at the moment— most of the european countries at the moment live in peace thteee— at the moment live in peace theee eth— at the moment live in peace theee eeh ht— at the moment live in peace times and it means process is thet— times and it means process is thet ee— times and it means process is that are required— times and it means process is that are required to streamline the tehthtety— that are required to streamline the military assistance , are the military assistance, are teetee— the military assistance, are geared towards— the military assistance, are geared towards peace time. so we are geared towards peace time. so we tethheh— geared towards peace time. so we tethheh te— geared towards peace time. so we are talking to our— geared towards peace time. so we are talking to our partners as wet— are talking to our partners as wet eet— are talking to our partners as wet eet hwet— are talking to our partners as well, not just about their teeheeee— well, not just about their readiness to— well, not just about their readiness to provide us with the

weepe— readiness to provide us with the weepee thet— readiness to provide us with the weapons that we— readiness to provide us with the weapons that we request, but etee— weapons that we request, but etee ehewt— weapons that we request, but also about streamlining the processes-their- processes inside their ewethee— processes inside their countries, making sure that there— countries, making sure that thete he— countries, making sure that thete helteh— countries, making sure that there is red tape, there is there is no red tape, there is no unjustified— there is no red tape, there is no unjustified delays because for no unjustified delays because tet we— no unjustified delays because tet eteey— no unjustified delays because for us, every day— no unjustified delays because for us, every day counts. for eteey— for us, every day counts. for ewety hey— for us, every day counts. for us, every day means lives, means heettwethee— us, every day means lives, means destruction means— us, every day means lives, means destruction means risk to our peepte— destruction means risk to our peepte . — destruction means risk to our peepte . hwt— destruction means risk to our people . i/c. ” destruction means risk to our people. / people. yuri, you've mentioned a couple of times the devastation caused to the kakhovka dam. can you tell us what is the situation with the flooding? do you have any greater idea of those dead and injured? what's the situation on the ground in that kherson region ? camilla so that kherson region? camilla so by now we that kherson region? camilla so hy we hewe— that kherson region? camilla so by now we have been— i ”tig titi7 camilla so by now we have been able to evacuate from _ by now we have been able to evacuate from the right hand ethe— evacuate from the right hand ehhe et— evacuate from the right hand ehhe et the— evacuate from the right hand side of the dnieper river, which is side of the dnieper river, which he wehet— side of the dnieper river, which is under ukraine's— side of the dnieper river, which is under ukraine's control. wehe— is under ukraine's control. wehe heee— is under ukraine's control. we've been able to evacuate more thee— we've been able to evacuate more thee shoo— we've been able to evacuate more thee ehee peepte. — we've been able to evacuate more than 3000 people. now, there are eth— than 3000 people. now, there are ethtt eh— than 3000 people. now, there are still 32 villages— than 3000 people. now, there are still 32 villages which are eeteptetety— still 32 villages which are completely under water. the wetee— completely under water. the wetet he— completely under water. the water is dropping down. the wetee— water is dropping down. the water levels— water is dropping down. the water levels are— water is dropping down. the water levels are coming down a the— water levels are coming down a thttte tht— water levels are coming down a thttte hht .— water levels are coming down a little bit . during— water levels are coming down a little bit . during the last 24 little bit. during the last 24 hee— little bit. during the last 24 hours, they've— little bit. during the last 24 hours, they've decreased by zeete. — hours, they've decreased by zeete. hwt— hours, they've decreased by 26cm. but the _ hours, they've decreased by 26cm. but the evacuation works ethtt— 26cm. but the evacuation works still continue _ 26cm. but the evacuation works still continue .— 26cm. but the evacuation works still continue . but— 26cm. but the evacuation works still continue . but what i would

still continue. but what i would the— still continue. but what i would thhe te— still continue. but what i would like to stress— still continue. but what i would like to stress using this eppettwehty— like to stress using this opportunity is that, you know , opportunity is that, you know, the evacuation— opportunity is that, you know, the evacuation processes on the hhtehehee— the evacuation processes on the ukrainian controlled side are going— ukrainian controlled side are going te— ukrainian controlled side are going te ptee— ukrainian controlled side are going to plan. and we are making ptehteee— going to plan. and we are making pteoteee whee— going to plan. and we are making pteoteee whee ht— going to plan. and we are making progress when it comes to the teh— progress when it comes to the tett ethe— progress when it comes to the tett ehhe et— progress when it comes to the left side of the— progress when it comes to the left side of the dnieper river, whheh— left side of the dnieper river, whheh he— left side of the dnieper river, which is which— left side of the dnieper river, which is which is— left side of the dnieper river, which is which is controlled by the terrorists— which is which is controlled by the terrorists .— which is which is controlled by the terrorists . we— which is which is controlled by the terrorists . we know that the terrorists. we know that there— the terrorists. we know that thete ee— the terrorists. we know that there are no— the terrorists. we know that there are no evacuation processes taking place. people are processes taking place. people teh— processes taking place. people tett ;— processes taking place. people tett , yew— processes taking place. people are left , you know, to survive are left, you know, to survive as are left, you know, to survive ee they— are left, you know, to survive ee they eee— are left, you know, to survive as they can and— are left, you know, to survive as they can and look , yesterday, as they can and look, yesterday, to as they can and look, yesterday, te he— as they can and look, yesterday, te he teteet— as they can and look, yesterday, to be honest, even— as they can and look, yesterday, to be honest, even in odesa, whheh— to be honest, even in odesa, whheh he— to be honest, even in odesa, whheh he e— to be honest, even in odesa, which is a couple— to be honest, even in odesa, which is a couple of hundred hhteteettee— which is a couple of hundred kilometres away— which is a couple of hundred kilometres away from her son, uh , the— kilometres away from her son, uh , the tehee— kilometres away from her son, uh , the hehhee et— kilometres away from her son, uh , the bodies of dead— kilometres away from her son, uh , the bodies of dead russian eethhete— , the bodies of dead russian soldiers were— , the bodies of dead russian soldiers were washed on the heeehee— soldiers were washed on the heeehee et— soldiers were washed on the beaches of the— soldiers were washed on the beaches of the sea . so we can beaches of the sea. so we can thet— beaches of the sea. so we can see that these— beaches of the sea. so we can see that these are— beaches of the sea. so we can see that these are terrorists whe— see that these are terrorists whe hewe— see that these are terrorists whe hewe ee — see that these are terrorists who have no regard not just for the htee— who have no regard not just for the thee et— who have no regard not just for the lives of civilians, they hewe — the lives of civilians, they hewe ee — the lives of civilians, they have no regard- the lives of civilians, they have no regard for even the life of have no regard for even the life et thett— have no regard for even the life et theht ew— have no regard for even the life of their own soldiers, which is eeteethheh— of their own soldiers, which is something-knew- of their own soldiers, which is something knew a very of their own soldiers, which is sometime. knew a very of their own soldiers, which is sometime. i/c. ” iew a very of their own soldiers, which is sometime. i/c. ” i a very of their own soldiers, which is sometime. i/c. ” i y of their own soldiers, which is sometime. i/c. ” i long time. yuri sack, thank you very much indeed forjoining me this morning now, it's been this morning. now, it's been another big week in the usa. donald trump has become the first us president to be indicted on federal charges. in just , his former chief just a minute, his former chief of mick mulvaney , is

of staff, mick mulvaney, is going give us his take on going to give us his take on what's happened. go

people's channel. i people's channel. britain's news . channel welcome back. now let's go from one blonde- i now let's go from one blonde to eeethet— let's go from one blonde to another because _ let's go from one blonde to another because i'm joined now by another because i'm joined now hy the— another because i'm joined now hy the teteet— another because i'm joined now by the former chief of staff to heeeth— by the former chief of staff to donald trump,— by the former chief of staff to donald trump, former us representative— donald trump, former us representative from south eetetee— representative from south carolina. he's— representative from south carolina. he's got up very early for carolina. he's got up very early tet — carolina. he's got up very early tet we— carolina. he's got up very early for us. we thank— carolina. he's got up very early for us. we thank him for that. heh— for us. we thank him for that. heh epeehet— for us. we thank him for that. and special special envoy and special former special envoy to and special former special envoy te hetthete— and special former special envoy to northern ireland, mick hwweeey— to northern ireland, mick hwtweeey .— to northern ireland, mick mulvaney . mr- to northern ireland, mick mulvaney . mr mulvaney, thank you mulvaney. mr mulvaney, thank you very-tet— mulvaney. mr mulvaney, thank you very-tet tehetee— mulvaney. mr mulvaney, thank you

very-forjoining me- mulvaney. mr mulvaney, thank you very forjoining me indeed. very much forjoining me indeed. nowh— very much forjoining me indeed. hew—hehheh- now, what's your initial teeethee— now, what's your initial reaction donald trump's reaction to donald trump's hehhetteeet— reaction to donald trump's indictment on— reaction to donald trump's indictment on federal charges? the— indictment on federal charges? this unprecedented, isn't it? this is unprecedented, isn't it? teeh— this is unprecedented, isn't it? weeh .— this is unprecedented, isn't it? weeh . twe— this is unprecedented, isn't it? yeah , two reactions.— this is unprecedented, isn't it? yeah , two reactions. one,- this is unprecedented, isn't it? yeah, two reactions. one, on the legal front , i used to practise legal front, i used to practise law and another on the political. i was in office and also obviously served with president legal case president trump. the legal case here strong. here looks very, very strong. i doubt very seriously the government would bring this case against donald trump they did against donald trump if they did not think they had incontrovertible evidence against every single one against him on every single one of these charges. politico be a different story entirely. there doesn't seem to be any damage here. keep in mind, of the here. keep in mind, one of the critical elements is what did donald and whom donald trump have and to whom did and the did he show it? and the indictment seems to indicate he only showed it to 1 or people. only showed it to 1 or 2 people. certainly no foreign leaders, no foreign governments. he didn't certainly no foreign leaders, no foreton governments. he didn't certainly no foreign leaders, no foreton goveito nents. he didn't certainly no foreign leaders, no foreton goveito anybody. didn't certainly no foreign leaders, no foreton goveito anybody. soin't try to sell it to anybody. so what you've got a situation here is technical violation of the what you've got a situation here is withnical violation of the what you've got a situation here is with none violation of the what you've got a situation here is with none orlation of the what you've got a situation here is with none or veryi of the what you've got a situation here is with none or very little ie law with none or very little damage to the country. it's sort of hard to imagine that they would indict a former president if the national interest wasn't damaged. but that seems to be what's happening precisely here. okay. well, he won't probably

teeeeeheth— okay. well, he won't probably reconsider his— okay. well, he won't probably reconsider his pledge to be the text— reconsider his pledge to be the text us— reconsider his pledge to be the next us president, but should he ttehe— next us president, but should he eehe ht,— next us president, but should he make it, doesn't— next us president, but should he make it, doesn't make it. ehewth— make it, doesn't make it. shewth heh— make it, doesn't make it. should he? i— make it, doesn't make it. should he? i don't- make it, doesn't make it. should he? i don't think he should run anyway, because i think he's going to lose. i think he's going to lose. i think donald trump probably wins the republican nomination, by the republican nomination, by the any the way. i don't think any of this of these this changes because of these indictments i think the indictments. i think he wins the republican nomination and then indictments. i think he wins the repulthe n nomination and then indictments. i think he wins the repulthe generalation and then indictments. i think he wins the repulthe general electioni then indictments. i think he wins the repulthe general election to 1611 loses the general election to joe biden or to whoever the democrats offer. it democrats happen to offer. it looks be president looks like it will be president biden, lost in 2020 biden, but he lost in 2020 because he lost a great deal of his support in the middle of the country from 2016. he's not done anything to get those folks back between 2024 and now between 2020 and now. so i don't want him to run because i think he's going to lose. but he doesn't. he stopped asking me what what he stopped asking me what i what i long ago. donald i think a long time ago. donald trump continue to trump is going to continue to run. our run. keep in mind, under our system, prison system, he can't run from prison . he can win prison. and . he can win from prison. and apparently serve from apparently can even serve from prison . so know you can fully prison. so know you can fully expect trump to continue expect donald trump to continue running in 2024, running for office in 2024, 2024, regardless of this indictment , 2024, regardless of this indictment, how likely is a

prison sentence, do you think , prison sentence, do you think, based on the indictment, fairly significant . but there's, significant. but there's, i think, 37 or 38 charges and so many of them are connected to the obstruction of the justice. it's not the underlying crime. if donald trump had done what joe biden here, what mike joe biden did here, what mike pence did here, when they found their classified documents, they gave them back. there's no gave them back. and there's no charges against pence. there's not be charges not going to be any charges against difference against biden. the difference here did to try here is what trump did to try and cover up what he did in the first place. as is so often the case, it's not the underlying crime. the interference. crime. it's the interference. it's gets it's the cover up that gets folks trouble. have folks in trouble. and they have him evidence , him with significant evidence, it looks like, as to obstruction . so i think chances of a of . so i think the chances of a of a a guilty verdict are fairly a of a guilty verdict are fairly high. and the chances of real jail are pretty and jail time are pretty high. and when say real jail how when you say real jail time, how long that be? well, at his long might that be? well, at his age, it doesn't really make much difference. right i think the maximum, if you add up all the math, the maximum be over math, the maximum could be over 500 the minimum

500 years. the minimum would be 100 he's in his he's 100 years. but he's in his he's in his late now. but i have in his late 70s now. but i have no idea. you have to wait and see. go through the trial and see. go through the trial and see jury reacts to the see how the jury reacts to the evidence that they see. but anything at his anything at this point, at his age, a considerable age, would be a considerable pedod age, would be a considerable period of time . yeah, i was period of time. yeah, i was epeehhee— period of time. yeah, i was epeehheo te— period of time. yeah, i was speaking to nigel- : c yeah, i was speaking to nigel farage, who's eteee— speaking to nigel farage, who's eteee te— speaking to nigel farage, who's close to donald— speaking to nigel farage, who's close to donald trump, a little eethee—eeh- close to donald trump, a little earlier—and he. close to donald trump, a little. earlier—and he was earlier on the show, and he was tethheh—eehehi talking about how this is going to talking about how this is going te—etehethee- talking about how this is going to_embolden thei to only serve to embolden the hteh— to only serve to embolden the hhew-hew- to only serve to embolden the maga-you talk- to only serve to embolden the maga you talk about maga fan base. you talk about heeeth— maga fan base. you talk about heeeth htwtep— maga fan base. you talk about donald trump not— maga fan base. you talk about donald trump not being able to teteet— donald trump not being able to heteet hhhee— donald trump not being able to defeat biden, but— donald trump not being able to defeat biden, but but who do you thheh— defeat biden, but but who do you thheh ewt— defeat biden, but but who do you thheh ewt et— defeat biden, but but who do you think out of the— defeat biden, but but who do you think out of the other republican- think out of the other republican candidates? could are you republican candidates? could are yew e— republican candidates? could are yew e htee— republican candidates? could are you a ron desantis_ republican candidates? could are you a ron desantis fan? are you tewewheh— you a ron desantis fan? are you tewewheh hhe— you a ron desantis fan? are you favouring mike pence? is there eeethet— favouring mike pence? is there another republican candidate thet— another republican candidate that- actually- another republican candidate that actually topple biden that could actually topple biden ? that could actually topple biden 7 weeh.— that could actually topple biden 7 weeh. h— that could actually topple biden 7 yeah, i think— that could actually topple biden 7 yeah, i think the— that could actually topple biden ? / it: ? yeah, i think the interesting thing is that pretty much any of the leading republican candidates right now would likely to crush joe biden in a general election. keep in mind, if biden versus desantis or if it's biden versus desantis or biden versus haley , biden biden versus nikki haley, biden versus mike pence, that becomes a binary choice between two people. joe biden is people. and joe biden is extraordinarily unpopular right now. approval numbers are now. is approval numbers are very, low . but if it's

very, very low. but if it's biden versus donald trump, it becomes referendum on donald becomes a referendum on donald trump. the same dynamic trump. this is the same dynamic that existed in 2020. and i think lose in 2024 think trump would lose in 2024 for the same reason he lost in 2020. it wouldn't be a choice between him and joe biden. it would referendum on him. do would be a referendum on him. do you like him or not? right you like him or not? and right now, the country now, a majority of the country does to the does not. quick answer to the tettewheh— does not. quick answer to the following question— does not. quick answer to the following question-if. following question, mick, if you hee-t— following question, mick, if you heth—te— following question, mick, if you hee-t—te hteh- don't mind, just to bring it teeh— don't mind, just to bring it back-domestic- don't mind, just to bring it- back-domestic-lots back to domestic matters, lots of back to domestic matters, lots et—teehe- back to domestic matters, lots. of_made comparisons of people have made comparisons hetweee— of people have made comparisonsi between—donald between boris johnson and donald heep— between boris johnson and donald htwtep, eet— between boris johnson and donald hwtep, eet heeet— between boris johnson and donald trump, not least-his- trump, not least after his teeteeethee— trump, not least after his. resignation _what resignation statement. what do you resignation statement. what do yew-ht— resignation statement. what do yew-ht ette - resignation statement. what do yew-ht ette h- resignation statement. what do you-it all7 i think. resignation statement. what doi you-it all7 i think the you make of it all? i think the trump thing is much more serious . keep trump thing is much more serious .keepin trump thing is much more serious . keep in mind, allegations . keep in mind, the allegations here took classified here is that he took classified information, showed information, that he showed it to should not to people that he should not have done. i get the seriousness of during and of the issues during covid and so see a dramatic so forth, but i see a dramatic difference the difference here in terms of the gravity underlying event. gravity of the underlying event. i honestly hard to i find it honestly hard to imagine that someone has to quit parliament over whether or not they had a party in their office. this is a very different matter with donald trump, although mislead although he did mislead parliament as far as the privilege committee is privilege is committee is concerned, that's quite a serious here. i get it. serious offence here. i get it. and i understand like i said,

i'm not trying to say that one is important and the other is not. saying terms the not. i'm saying in terms of the gravity even if it's a gravity of even if it's a misleading what is misleading parliament, what is it misleading as to it misleading parliament as to this trump supposedly this is donald trump supposedly had dealing with our had documents dealing with our military and our military abilities and our nuclear programs could have nuclear programs and could have given to folks who should not given it to folks who should not have my mind, those have seen it. in my mind, those two night day . two things are night and day. mike thank you very mike mulvaney, thank you very tewet— mike mulvaney, thank you very teweh heheeh— mike mulvaney, thank you very much indeed getting so much indeed for getting up so eetty— much indeed for getting up so eettyleppeet— much indeed for getting up so eettyleppeet ee— much indeed for getting up so early appear on show. much indeed for getting up so earl reallyppear on show. much indeed for getting up so earl really much on show. much indeed for getting up so earl really much appreciated. much indeed for getting up so earlreally much appreciated . it's really much appreciated. wett— it's really much appreciated. wett h— it's really much appreciated. wett h eeeh— it's really much appreciated. well, i need a— it's really much appreciated. well, i need a lie down in a heheeeh— well, i need a lie down in a darkened room— well, i need a lie down in a darkened room .— well, i need a lie down in a darkened room . we'll be back darkened room. we'll be back eeet— darkened room. we'll be back eeet weeh— darkened room. we'll be back eeet weeh et— darkened room. we'll be back next week at 9:30 am. as ever. hwt— next week at 9:30 am. as ever. hwt wp— next week at 9:30 am. as ever. hwt wp eeet,— next week at 9:30 am. as ever. but up next, it's— next week at 9:30 am. as ever. but up next, it's a— next week at 9:30 am. as ever. but up next, it's a boris free hwt— but up next, it's a boris free zone, but you're— but up next, it's a boris free zone, but you're still enjoy it . hte— zone, but you're still enjoy it . it's michael— zone, but you're still enjoy it . it's michael portillo going . it's michael portillo is going to . it's michael portillo is going te—yew— . it's michael portillo is going te—yew ett- . it's michael portillo is going te—yew ettlthei to be bringing you all of the eethe— to be bringing you all of the native _from _ to be bringing you all of the native from cultural native news from the cultural ethe— native news from the cultural ehhelthheee. — native news from the cultural side things. enjoy the side of things. do enjoy the eweehhee— side of things. do enjoy the sunshine later— side of things. do enjoy the sunshine later on today . a&e .