caused by the rebellion turmoil caused by the rebellion could— turmoil caused by the rebellion could take— turmoil caused by the rebellion could take months to play out. but— could take months to play out. but is— could take months to play out. but is likely— could take months to play out. but is likely to— could take months to play out. but is likely to affect moscow's capabilities— but is likely to affect moscow's capabilities in— but is likely to affect moscow's capabilities in ukraine. to the extent— capabilities in ukraine. to the extent this— capabilities in ukraine. to the extent this presents a distraction _ extent this presents a distraction in a loss of focus for— distraction in a loss of focus for the— distraction in a loss of focus for the russians,— distraction in a loss of focus for the russians, that may help the ukrainians— for the russians, that may help the ukrainians on— for the russians, that may help the ukrainians on the battlefield- the ukrainians on the battlefield . the ukrainians on the battlefield. xacccy the ukrainians on the battlefield. xecccé the ukrainians on the- battlefield . exactly where this battlefield. exactly where this goes , we don't know. but what we goes, we don't know. but what we do know is that we've seen real cracks emerge . again, a direct cracks emerge. again, a direct challenge to putin's authority . challenge to putin's authority. and while the immediate risk appears— and while the immediate risk appears ee— and while the immediate risk appears to have— and while the immediate risk appears to have been contained, emergency— appears to have been contained, emergency security measures do in— emergency security measures do in place— emergency security measures do remain in place in— emergency security measures do remain in place in moscow. as russian— remain in place in moscow. as russian journalist— remain in place in moscow. as russian journalist alexei we're tem— russian journalist alexei we're told ee— russian journalist alexei we're told ee newe— russian journalist alexei we're told gb news earlier, everything is hee— told gb news earlier, everything is has been— told gb news earlier, everything is has been resolved. . is has been resolved. it seems that— is has been resolved. it seems that the— is has been resolved. it seems that the catastrophe has been avoided. we still do have some extra law enforcement here on the streets and they are wearing some heavy gear. for example, bullet—proof vests and helmets . bullet—proof vests and helmets. they have machine guns, which which is unusual. but as you can see here, our live life

continues . the situation here in continues. the situation here in downtown moscow doesn't seem any any different from the usual the red square is still closed, but other than that, everything seems fine . a 15 year old girl seems fine. a 15 year old girl has died after being pulled from the sea at cleethorpes beach in lincolnshire. a 15 year old boy wha— lincolnshire. a 15 year old boy who was— lincolnshire. a 15 year old boy who atsa — lincolnshire. a 15 year old boy who was also airlifted- f ”c: a 15 year old boy who was also airlifted to taspttat— who was also airlifted to hospital has— who was also airlifted to hospital has since been discharged— hospital has since been discharged ._ hospital has since been discharged . and separately, discharged. and separately, a five— discharged. and separately, a ttve year— discharged. and separately, a ttve year att— discharged. and separately, a five year old boy— discharged. and separately, a five year old boy has died after tatttna— five year old boy has died after tatttna tram — five year old boy has died after tatttng team a— five year old boy has died after falling from a harbour wall in the comet— falling from a harbour wall in the cornish town— falling from a harbour wall in the cornish town of padstow. tatte— the cornish town of padstow. police -treating - the cornish town of padstow. police treating both police are treating both tnettents— police are treating both incidents as— police are treating both incidents as accidental . now the incidents as accidental. now the duchess— incidents as accidental. now the duchess at— incidents as accidental. now the duchess of york— incidents as accidental. now the duchess of york is— incidents as accidental. now the duchess of york is recovering tattawtna— duchess of york is recovering tattawtna a— duchess of york is recovering following a successful operation to treat— following a successful operation to treat breast— following a successful operation to treat breast cancer. sarah tetgasan— to treat breast cancer. sarah tetgasan was— to treat breast cancer. sarah ferguson was recently diagnosed wttt— ferguson was recently diagnosed wttt an— ferguson was recently diagnosed wttt an eatty— ferguson was recently diagnosed with an early form _ ferguson was recently diagnosed with an early form of cancer attet— with an early form of cancer attet a— with an early form of cancer after a routine— with an early form of cancer after a routine mammogram having teen— after a routine mammogram having teen symptom— after a routine mammogram having been symptom free. _ after a routine mammogram having been symptom free. she was teteaset— been symptom free. she was released from _ been symptom free. she was released from hospital earlier ant— released from hospital earlier ant ts— released from hospital earlier ant ts nan— released from hospital earlier and is now recovering with her tantty— and is now recovering with her tantty tn— and is now recovering with her family in windsor. doctors say her family in windsor. doctors say net nngnasts— family in windsor. doctors say her prognosis is— family in windsor. doctors say her prognosis is good and in a ten— her prognosis is good and in a ten nears— her prognosis is good and in a few hours time— her prognosis is good and in a few hours time it— her prognosis is good and in a few hours time it will be gaattye— few hours time it will be goodbye yellow brick road for goat. — goodbye yellow brick road for goat. tn— goodbye yellow brick road for east. tn tnts— goodbye yellow brick road for good. in this country, at least . sta— good. in this country, at least . stn tttan— good. in this country, at least . sir elton john— good. in this country, at least . sir elton john will close the etastantnn— . sir elton john will close the

glastonbury festival by headlining— glastonbury festival by headlining the pyramid stage. it will headlining the pyramid stage. it nttt te— headlining the pyramid stage. it nttt te nts— headlining the pyramid stage. it will be his final— headlining the pyramid stage. it will be his final uk gig. 53 years— will be his final uk gig. 53 years atten— will be his final uk gig. 53 years after his— will be his final uk gig. 53 years after his first. now, sir, tttan-s— years after his first. now, sir, elton's promised— years after his first. now, sir, elton's promised a number of spectat— elton's promised a number of sneetat guests— elton's promised a number of special guests and also to open nttn— special guests and also to open nttn a— special guests and also to open nttn a sane— special guests and also to open nttn a sane ne— special guests and also to open with a song he hasn't played in the with a song he hasn't played in tne tast— with a song he hasn't played in tne tast ten— with a song he hasn't played in the last ten years— with a song he hasn't played in the last ten years that gets underway— the last ten years that gets underway at— the last ten years that gets nntennay at 9— the last ten years that gets underway at 9 pm. and this is gb underway at 9 pm. and this is en tens— underway at 9 pm. and this is en tens new— underway at 9 pm. and this is gb news now. time for free sneeen— gb news now. time for free speech nation— gb news now. time for free speech nation ._ gb news now. time for free speech nation . well speech nation. well. vladimir patn— speech nation. well. vladimir tnttn ts— speech nation. well. vladimir putin is having— speech nation. well. vladimir putin is having a— speech nation. well. vladimir putin is having a bad week. sensat— putin is having a bad week. school children— putin is having a bad week. school children are- putin is having a bad week. school children are identifying as cats and the boss of bud light wins marketer of the year. this is free speech nation . on this is free speech nation. on you . welcome to free speech you. welcome to free speech nation. with me andrew doyle. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics. and of course, we'll have the latest from those lovable and lovable culture warriors and

their suck their tireless quest to suck every ounce of joy from human experience . coming up on the experience. coming up on the show tonight, stella o'malley and joseph burgo from gen spect will be here to tell me about a new think tank launched to new think tank being launched to help gender related help with gender related distress . we're going to hear distress. we're going to hear about nasty melee week about a nasty melee this week at speaker's which is speaker's corner, which is supposed be a bastion of supposed to be a bastion of uninhibited free speech. we'll ask what the ramifications could be for freedom of expression in ireland as a bill on new hate crime is about to make it into law, and it's pretty disastrous . and of course, myself and my fantastic panel will be answering questions from our lovely audience. lovely studio audience. i'm going introduce right going to introduce them right now i've diane spencer and now. i've got diane spencer and leo , who . so how's it leo kearse, who. so how's it going .7 good week. leo yeah, it's going? good week. leo yeah, it's aest— going? good week. leo yeah, it's east . — going? good week. leo yeah, it's good . nave— going? good week. leo yeah, it's good . have you— going? good week. leo yeah, it's good . have you been- going.7 good week. leo yeah, it's good . have you been doing good. have you been doing attempted a coup on edinburgh. i got the carlyle, then decided to call it off. and have you sort of call it off. and have you sort at mate— call it off. and have you sort of made some— call it off. and have you sort of made some sort- call it off. and have you sort of made some sort of- tan? c and have you sort of made some sort of deal tit? c and have you sort of made some sort of deal with nteata— of made some sort of deal with nicola sturgeon?— of made some sort of deal with nicola sturgeon? i'm going to be exttet— nicola sturgeon? i'm going to be exttet ta— nicola sturgeon? i'm going to be exiled to wales. _ nicola sturgeon? i'm going to be exiled to wales. it— nicola sturgeon? i'm going to be exiled to wales. c i:

exiled to wales. it could be t— exiled to wales. it could be worse. idon't_ exiled to wales. it could be worse. i don't mind- exiled to wales. c i: i don't mind aberystwyth worse. i don't mind aberystwyth nttn— worse. i don't mind aberystwyth nttn ttnyt— worse. i don't mind aberystwyth nttn ttnyt ts— worse. i don't mind aberystwyth with rhyl is quite— i don't mind aberystwyth with rhyl is quite nice . o" with rhyl is quite nice. oh, t-ve— with rhyl is quite nice. oh, i've never been— with rhyl is quite nice. oh, i've never been to- with rhyl is quite nice. oh, i've never been to rhyl it's fine. it's got. well anyway , i fine. it's got. well anyway, i went— fine. it's got. well anyway, i went ta— fine. it's got. well anyway, i went to mould— fine. it's got. well anyway, i went to mould . _ �*" c go well anyway, i went to mould . /t:::t. " went to mould. you've been to mould. that's a place in wales. it's a real place. they've got a lovely art centre. okay. yeah is there anywhere in i / is there anywhere in britain or the is there anywhere in britain or tne tw— is there anywhere in britain or tne wt tnat— is there anywhere in britain or the uk that isn't— is there anywhere in britain or the uk that isn't like named atten— the uk that isn't like named atten sane— the uk that isn't like named after some sort— the uk that isn't like named after some sort of fungus ? it's. after some sort of fungus? it's. do after some sort of fungus? it's. no wan— after some sort of fungus? it's. no you knew— after some sort of fungus? it's. do you know there's a couple of ttttte— do you know there's a couple of little villages— do you know there's a couple of little villages near— do you know there's a couple of little villages near where i twe— little villages near where i ttwe ant— little villages near where i live and they're- little villages near where i live and they're called bere and droop- — live and they're called bere and droop- ts— live and they're called bere and droop- ts tnat— live and they're called bere and droop. is that real? - live and they're called bere and droop. ”tie? yeah. yeah. droop. is that real? yeah. yeah. goodness me. okay, well, look, i think it's about time we get some questions from the audience, because this is far too trivial me. we're going too trivial for me. we're going too trivial for me. we're going to with a question from to start with a question from eden. eden, that's me. hello. how you? yeah, a question. how are you? yeah, a question. is how are you? yeah, a question. ts-a— how are you? yeah, a question. ts-a beginning— how are you? yeah, a question. is-a beginning or- how are you? yeah, a question. is-a beginning or end- is this a beginning or end of twttne— is this a beginning or end of twttne wean— is this a beginning or end of putin? yeah _ is this a beginning or end of putin? yeah oh,— is this a beginning or end of putin? yeah o" �*ftt�*tzge putin? yeah oh, okay. well, we've all been thinking it. vladimir putin, as you know, has had particularly time this had a particularly bad time this week mercenaries known week with the mercenaries known as wagner. at first looking at they were going to stage a coup and then reach some kind and then they reach some kind of deal prigozhin ended up deal and prigozhin ended up making a deal saying he was going go to belarus. now, going to go to belarus. now, leo, we thinking for

leo, we were thinking for a while there, this is like shades of 1979, you know, where the army were basically saying to nicholas get out. and nicholas ii, yeah, get out. and putin even said that— \t i “43?“ gig and putin even said that himself, nette— putin even said that himself, tents—ne- putin even said that himself, right? he brought up putin even said that himself,- right?-he brought up i right? you know, he brought up i mean, for somebody who's swnnaset— mean, for somebody who's swnnasetlte— mean, for somebody who's supposed be strong man supposed to be a strong man ttetatan— supposed to be a strong man ttetatan-waw— supposed to be a strong man dictator, you know, he dictator, he's you know, he tenant— dictator, he's you know, he brought-that- dictator, he's you know, he brought that compared himself brought up that compared himself to brought up that compared himself tea—sa- brought up that compared himself ta—sa tat- brought up that compared himself ta—sa tat tnel to that. yeah. yeah. so but the thing is, like him going off to belarus, it's going belarus, i mean, it's not going to i trotsky went to to i mean, trotsky went to mexico, work for him. mexico, didn't work out for him. i mean, is it not the case that when people do these kind of putsches, these attempted coups, they to their heads, putsches, these attempted coups, they they?) their heads, putsches, these attempted coups, they they?) inieir heads, putsches, these attempted coups, they they?) in russianis, don't they? yeah in russian history. i don't history. i mean, i don't understand prigozhin called history. i mean, i don't uroff. stand prigozhin called history. i mean, i don't uroff. whateverprigozhin called history. i mean, i don't uroff. whatever he'szhin called history. i mean, i don't uroff. whatever he's been:alled it off. whatever he's been wantseat— it off. whatever he's been wantset. t— e whatever he's been promised. i mean, a promise from vtattntn— promised. i mean, a promise from vladimir—really- vladimir putin isn't really wann— vladimir putin isn't really want—tt-s- vladimir putin isn't really- worth—it's-even worth the paper. it's not even nntntet— worth the paper. it's not even nnntet — worth the paper. it's not even nnntet -as- worth the paper. it's not even printed on. -as we. worth the paper. it's not even printed on. as we can printed on. because as we can wttn— printed on. because as we can see with ukraine,— printed on. because as we can see with ukraine, he promised, you— see with ukraine, he promised, you knew,— see with ukraine, he promised, you knew ne— see with ukraine, he promised, you know, he never going to. you know, he was never going to. tnene-s— you know, he was never going to. tnene-s tne— you know, he was never going to. there's the budapest or bucharest— there's the budapest or- bucharest—agreement. there's the budapest or- buciknow,_agreement. there's the budapest or- buciknow, he-agreement. there's the budapest or buciknow, he wasn't agreement. there's the budapest or buciknow, he wasn't agretotent. you know, he wasn't going to tnwate— you know, he wasn't going to invade ukraine— you know, he wasn't going to invade ukraine that didn't invade ukraine and that didn't want— invade ukraine and that didn't work-ukraine.- invade ukraine and that didn'ti work-ukraine.-don't work out for ukraine. so i don't understand— work out for ukraine. so i don't understand-he- work out for ukraine. so i don't understand-he he- work out for ukraine. so i don't understand he he had understand prigozhin he he had his understand prigozhin he he had nts-an— understand prigozhin he he had nts-an tne— understand prigozhin he he had his on the outskirts of his military on the outskirts of moscow— his military on the outskirts of moscow ,— his military on the outskirts of moscow , 70km _ his military on the outskirts of moscow , 70km from the centre, so moscow, 70km from the centre, so he moscow, 70km from the centre, so ne sawt— moscow, 70km from the centre, so ne eawtt nave— moscow, 70km from the centre, so he could have just— moscow, 70km from the centre, so he could have just gone in and you— he could have just gone in and wan knew,— he could have just gone in and you know,.even_ he could have just gone in and you know, even said on the you know, he even said on the way— you know, he even said on the way up— you know, he even said on the way wan-sate,— you know, he even said on the way wnlsatt, tn-

you know, he even said on the way up said, i'm going to, way up he said, i'm going to, i tntnt— way up he said, i'm going to, i tntnt ne— way up he said, i'm going to, i think he said— way up he said, i'm going to, i think he said he— way up he said, i'm going to, i think he said he was going to tang— think he said he was going to tang-ant— think he said he was going to hang and gerasimov. so hang shoigu and gerasimov. so the hang shoigu and gerasimov. so tne detenee— hang shoigu and gerasimov. so the defence-and- hang shoigu and gerasimov. so the defence and the the defence minister and the neat— the defence minister and the neat-anny,— the defence minister and the head army, yeah, he's head of the army, yeah, he's teen— head of the army, yeah, he'si teen—neante. head of the army, yeah, he's. teen—neante. tt been with the army people. it want— been with the army people. it t wttn. — been with the army people. it wasn't with. well— been with the army people. it wasn't with. well he - been with the army people. e e well he also said wasn't with. well he also said were— wasn't with. well he also said tnene was— wasn't with. well he also said there was going— wasn't with. well he also said there was going to— wasn't with. well he also said there was going to be- e well he also said there was going to be a new westtent— there was going to be a new westtent. sa— there was going to be a new president. so i— there was going to be a new president. so i know if president. so i don't know if nts— president. so i don't know if his backers,— president. so i don't know if his backers, he— president. so i don't know if his backers, he must had some tasters— his backers, he must had some tasters tn— his backers, he must had some backers in the— his backers, he must had some backers in the russian establish if—bv- backers in the russian establish tt—tw tne| if they've been nobbled by the by if they've been nobbled by the bv-fsb_ if they've been nobbled by the tw-tsn an— if they've been nobbled by the by fsb or whatever, you by the fsb or whatever, you knew,— by the fsb or whatever, you know, shadowy— by the fsb or whatever, you know, shadowy spies. it's weird tsn-t— know, shadowy spies. it's weird tsn-t-neeawse— know, shadowy spies. it's weird isn't-because-go. know, shadowy spies. it's weirdi isn't-because-go that isn't it? because if you go that far you back out, it's far and then you back out, it's like death sentence on like a death sentence on yourself, isn't it? yeah, absolutely. it definitely is. ant— absolutely. it definitely is. antlnean— absolutely. it definitely is. andimean, -to l absolutely. it definitely is.- andimean,-to remember and i mean, we have to remember tnat— and i mean, we have to remember tnat-twsstan— and i mean, we have to remember that russian military there that the russian military there is that the russian military there ts-ttwsstan— that the russian military there is russian military, is the russian military, but tt-s— is the russian military, but it's-fragmented. is the russian military, but it's-fragmented to it's actually fragmented into to attent— it's actually fragmented into to about-7— it's actually fragmented into to about -7 private _ it's actually fragmented into to about 7 private military about 6 or 7 private military corporations.— about 6 or 7 private military corporations-one. about 6 or 7 private military corporations. one of corporations. yes. and one of tnese— corporations. yes. and one of tnese ts— corporations. yes. and one of tnese ts tne— corporations. yes. and one of these is the group. but these is the wagner group. but tnene— these is the wagner group. but tnene-nanw— these is the wagner group. but there many others. right. so there are many others. right. so it's there are many others. right. so tt-s-tntense.— there are many others. right. so it's-intense. i'm- there are many others. right. so it's-intense. i'm not- there are many others. right. so it's intense. i'm not sure it's quite intense. i'm not sure wnat— it's quite intense. i'm not sure wnat-tne— it's quite intense. i'm not sure what the statistical what like the statistical nwntes— what like the statisticali numbers—has what like the statistical numbers—has own numbers are, but he has his own any.— numbers are, but he has his own any. t— numbers are, but he has his own any. t nean— numbers are, but he has his own army. i mean, when— numbers are, but he has his own army. i mean, when he goes to tetanus— army. i mean, when he goes to netanws ant— army. i mean, when he goes to tetanus ant we— army. i mean, when he goes to belarus and we already know the netanwsstan— belarus and we already know the belarussian president is quite happy— belarussian president is quite happy to_ belarussian president is quite happy to test— belarussian president is quite happy to just yank planes out of the happy to just yank planes out of went— happy to just yank planes out of went ne— happy to just yank planes out of the-if he wants— happy to just yank planes out of the-if he wants to- happy to just yank planes out of the if he wants to grab the sky if he wants to grab a tawnattst— the sky if he wants to grab a journalist off— the sky if he wants to grab a journalist off them. yeah, there is journalist off them. yeah, there ts-tnat— journalist off them. yeah, there| is-that-wagner is no way that that guy wagner tntazntn— is no way that that guy wagner entazntn ts— is no way that that guy wagner prigozhin is going to be safe ttene— prigozhin is going to be safe tnene. t— prigozhin is going to be safe there. i mean,— prigozhin is going to be safe there. i mean, for goodness sate,— there. i mean, for goodness sake, litvinenko_ there. i mean, for goodness sake, litvinenko was assassinated in a london sushi

bar assassinated in a london sushi tan. — assassinated in a london sushi tan. wean.— assassinated in a london sushi bar. yeah, but— assassinated in a london sushi bar. yeah, but he— assassinated in a london sushi bar. / bar. yeah, but he must think he's safe. otherwise yeah, but it says to he's safe. otherwise yeah, but tt says to me— he's safe. otherwise yeah, but it says to me that— he's safe. otherwise yeah, but it says to me that there- yeah, but it says to me that there is sanetntnt— it says to me that there is something else- it says to me that there is something else going on. and it's something else going on. and tt-s nat— something else going on. and tt-s net ta— something else going on. and tt-s net ta ta— something else going on. and it's not to do with— something else going on. and it's not to do with putin. it says— it's not to do with putin. it says ta— it's not to do with putin. it says to me— it's not to do with putin. it says to me that- it's not to do with putin. it says to me that there are other neante— says to me that there are other people aunt— says to me that there are other people around putin which are aetwattw— people around putin which are aetwattw tne — people around putin which are actually the key— people around putin which are actually the key driving force . actually the key driving force. ant— actually the key driving force. and prigozhin— actually the key driving force. and prigozhin has been talking to men.— and prigozhin has been talking to tnen. tnew— and prigozhin has been talking to them. they have. right okay. so, to them. they have. right okay. so. wean.— to them. they have. right okay. so. wean. tnt— to them. they have. right okay. so, yeah, but the— to them. they have. right okay. so, yeah, but the big— to them. they have. right okay. so, yeah, but the big question now is, is putin is putin himself safe? safe is his authority is secure because it's kind of a reminder, isn't it, that in order to sustain power, you need to keep the army on side? this is why whenever roman emperors came to power, they doubled the army's salary. yeah, because they knew that otherwise they'd killed. obe they'd get killed. obe especially lyou're - t: g: aft: obe especially you're if they'd get kitted. obe- especially lyou're if you're especially if you're if you're a strang— especially if you're if you're a strong-dictator,- strong man dictator, you've tatattw— strong man dictator, you've tatattw-ta— strong man dictator, you've totally-to the - strong man dictator, you've totally to the army on side. totally got to the army on side. ant—tat— totally got to the army on side. ant—tatlnawel totally got to the army on side.| and _ got i have the and also you've got to have the country.— and also you've got to have the country-nave— and also you've got to have the country. - have got - country. people have got to tettewe— country. people have got to believe-your— country. people have got to believe your strength. and believe in your strength. and tnts— believe in your strength. and we nas— believe in your strength. and this has really— believe in your strength. and this has really been a wizard of oz-tan— this has really been a wizard of eta-tan twttn. - oz moment for putin. it's neweatet— oz moment for putin. it's revealed-he- oz moment for putin. it's revealed he doesn't he revealed that he doesn't he taesn-t—tne- revealed that he doesn't he. doesn't-the strength doesn't even have the strength to doesn't even have the strength ta—nanntnt- doesn't even have the strength to-marching all- doesn't even have the strength to marching all the to stop them marching all the way— to stop them marching all the wawlttaseaw— to stop them marching all the wawlttaseawla- to stop them marching all the way moscow a day. and like way to moscow in a day. and like remember ceausescu way to moscow in a day. and like- remember-ceausescu-out remember when ceausescu came out in remember when ceausescu came out tn—ne— remember when ceausescu came out tn—ne tatt- in the balcony and he told everybody— in the balcony and he told everybody-shut- in the balcony and he told everybody shut up and nobody

everybody to shut up and nobody snat— everybody to shut up and nobody snwt-tnat— everybody to shut up and nobody snwt-tnat was— everybody to shut up and nobody shut-that was the- everybody to shut up and nobody shut that was the moment shut up? and that was the moment ewewtatw—weatl everybody realised he was weak ant— everybody realised he was weak ant tnew— everybody realised he was weak ant tnew nat— everybody realised he was weak and they had the— everybody realised he was weak and they had the power over him and they had the power over him ant ne— and they had the power over him ant ne was— and they had the power over him and he was gone.— and they had the power over him and he was gone. four days later he and he was gone. four days later ne-tane.— and he was gone. four days later ne-tane. ne— and he was gone. four days later he gone. he executed. he was gone. he was executed. tunn— he was gone. he was executed. putinlalready_ he was gone. he was executed. putinlalready looking- putin is already looking a bit weak since victory day weak since that victory day parade. had one parade. yeah. where he had one tank. mean, i see more than tank. i mean, i see more than one tank where i live. you know, it's like that's not very much you. hertfordshire. but you. well, in hertfordshire. but you. well, in hertfordshire. but you can rustle up you could. you can rustle up a seant— you could. you can rustle up a seant ant,— you could. you can rustle up a second tank, but— you could. you can rustle up a second tank, but the- i: you can rustle up a second tank, but the point is, twe— second tank, but the point is, ttte-taattnt— second tank, but the point is, like looking weak is my like he's looking weak is my tntnttnt— like he's looking weak is my thinking-looking. like he's looking weak is my. thinking-looking weak thinking. he is looking weak because also he did something very uncharacteristic for putin. he got angry on television . he got angry on television. yeah. and was such i mean, yeah. and that was such i mean, good grief. girl's lip was quivering and she was shaking. she was very, very angry. wow i have never seen her behave like that before. so it's going to be so interesting.— that before. so it's going to be so interesting. well,— so it's going to be so interesting. well, i've neattw— so interesting. well, i've really enjoyed - so interesting. well, i've really enjoyed about this is tnts— really enjoyed about this is we ts— really enjoyed about this is we ts att— really enjoyed about this is this is all happened so quickly ant— this is all happened so quickly ant-at— this is all happened so quickly ant-at as— this is all happened so quickly and-of us really- this is all happened so quickly and of us really knew who and none of us really knew who wteazntn— and none of us really knew who patgazntn was— and none of us really knew who patgazntn a— and none of us really knew who prigozhin was a few days ago. nat— prigozhin was a few days ago. nut-tnese— prigozhin was a few days ago. but these commentators have but all these commentators have had but all these commentators have tat-at— but all these commentators have tat-at pretent— but all these commentators have had of pretend that they had to sort of pretend that they were-awen-we.- had to sort of pretend that they were-over-no, but- had to sort of pretend that they were-over. no, but we. were all over it. no, but we have been watching we've have been watching this. we've known is for ages. known who prigozhin is for ages. yeah have. because we're in yeah we have. because we're in the yeah we have. because we're in tne tstness— yeah we have. because we're in the business. well— tv/tziu?“ because we're in

the business. well we've been twe— the business. well we've been he, wean. — the business. well we've been like, yeah. and— the business. well we've been like, yeah. and then- the business. well we've been like, yeah. ' t: tintig : like, yeah. and then everybody's like, yeah. and then everybody's like, wagner. is the like, wagner. wagner. is it the music? should know? yeah. music? should we know? yeah. it's a lot of people playing catch up at the moment. okay well, going to a well, look, we're going to get a question jim. where's question now from jim. where's jim? here. hi jim. what's jim? i'm here. hi jim. what's your question for— jim? i'm here. hi jim. what's your question for the- your question for the invitation?- your question for the invitation? is, this invitation? my question is, this man— invitation? my question is, this net—stan-vean mob called just stop oil? yeah do mob called just stop oil? yeah na-tntnt— mob called just stop oil? yeah do-think-time- mob called just stop oil? yeah do-think-time is- mob called just stop oil? yeah do think time is done do you think the time is done for do you think the time is done tan tnene— do you think the time is done for them? the— do you think the time is done for them? the tides are turning. it for them? the tides are turning. tt-teeawse— for them? the tides are turning. it-because trevor- it could be because trevor wettsan— it could be because trevor neilson, who _ it could be because trevor neilson, who was co—founder neilson, who was a co—founder of inst—new— neilson, who was a co—founder of inst—new satt- neilson, who was a co—founder of just—now said that. just apple, he has now said that he just apple, he has now said that ne-neattw— just apple, he has now said that ne-neattw suntan- just apple, he has now said that he really support what he doesn't really support what tnew-ne—t- he doesn't really support what. tnew-ne—t tntnt they're doing anymore. i think thew-we— they're doing anymore. i think they've ttnt— they're doing anymore. i think they've kind of their tactics have really not necessarily gone down well because down particularly well because they obviously they keep annoying they're annoying the people that they're trying know, trying to persuade. you know, they people from they keep stopping people from going to work. they keep glueing themselves works of themselves to priceless works of art. it surely is the art. i mean, it surely it is the case if the if the case that if the if the co—founder is now saying, guys, it's not working, then then isn't all. isn't it all over? not at all. why? because to draw an analogy tran— why? because to draw an analogy nan an— why? because to draw an analogy nan an ses— why? because to draw an analogy from an 80s film,— �*ftt�*y?’ because to draw an analogy from an 80s film, here's the watwat.— from an 80s film, here's the mogwai. protesters are mogwai. the protesters are the seemin— mogwai. the protesters are the tenth—t- mogwai. the protesters are the- gremlin._| mean? gremlin. do you see what i mean? attnawtn— gremlin. do you see what i mean? although-protesters- gremlin. do you see what i mean? although protesters have although the protesters have come from him,— although the protesters have come from him, they are not him. t hey— come from him, they are not him. they ae— come from him, they are not him. they are gremlins.— come from him, they are not him. they are gremlins. they are now nwnntnt— they are gremlins. they are now nwnntnt tn— they are gremlins. they are now nwnntng tn ant— they are gremlins. they are now running in and causing havoc. tnts— running in and causing havoc. tnts ts— running in and causing havoc. tnts ts a— running in and causing havoc. tnts ts a very— running in and causing havoc.

this is a very niche 1980s film neeneneet t— this is a very niche 1980s film reference. i so— this is a very niche 1980s film reference. i so recommend you tt. — reference. i so recommend you tt. wean.— reference. i so recommend you see it. yeah. gremlins- reference. i so recommend you see it. / cizfix see it. yeah. gremlins is fantastic. yeah. and essentially what has happened is he is cut off from them. it has taken on a life off from them. it has taken on a ttte at— off from them. it has taken on a ttte at tts— off from them. it has taken on a life of its own. _ off from them. it has taken on a life of its own. if— off from them. it has taken on a life of its own. if they- it has taken on a life of its own. if they are going— life of its own. if they are going ta— life of its own. if they are going to recruit- life of its own. if they are going to recruit from universities- going to recruit from universities and they're going to target— universities and they're going to target young— universities and they're going to target young people that they can to target young people that they stn— to target young people that they sttn wn— to target young people that they can stir up-this_ to target young people that they can stir up-this-of- can stir up into this kind of natetwt— can stir up into this kind of. hateful—they're hateful fervour where they're twe— hateful fervour where they're he, wean— hateful fervour where they're he, wean ,— hateful fervour where they're like, yeah , let's— hateful fervour where they're like, yeah , let's just burn all like, yeah, let's just burn all tne— like, yeah, let's just burn all tne att— like, yeah, let's just burn all the oil paintings— like, yeah, let's just burn all the oil paintings because we neet— the oil paintings because we neet ta— the oil paintings because we neet to step— the oil paintings because we need to stop oil— the oil paintings because we need to stop oil like some of men,— need to stop oil like some of tnen, t— need to stop oil like some of tnen, t net,— need to stop oil like some of them, i bet, don't- need to stop oil like some of them, i bet, don't even know wnat— them, i bet, don't even know wnat tnew-ne— them, i bet, don't even know what they're protesting. no, i tntnt—tntntl what they're protesting. no, i- think—think they're think some of them think they're ntatesttnt— think some of them think they're watesttng att— think some of them think they're protesting oil painting. they're— protesting oil painting. newts-past- protesting oil painting. i they're-posh-i protesting oil painting. - they're-posh-i do they're all so posh like i do understand if you're going to understand is if you're going to have this movement, why not just get them to put working class get them to put on working class accents so they don't sound like they're because they're so, you know, because they're so, you know, because they so they seem like they're so superior everyone, going they seem like they're so su lookr everyone, going they seem like they're so su look like everyone, going they seem like they're so su look like the yone, going they seem like they're so su look like the musical. ioing to look like the musical. oliver they're like, come on, tantwtn— oliver they're like, come on, tantwtn tet-s— oliver they're like, come on, tarquin, let's go— oliver they're like, come on, tarquin, let's go and set fire. they— tarquin, let's go and set fire. that att— tarquin, let's go and set fire. they all they've— tarquin, let's go and set fire. they all they've all- tarquin, let's go and set fire. they all they've all got- tarquin, let's go and set fire. they all they've all got names like hugo ponsford and ponsonby and working class and we obviously working class people right? so people have got jobs, right? so they don't have time to q7 so they don't have time to and q7 so theindon't have time to and q7 so thein thet have time to and d 7 so thein the street time to and d 7 so thein the street orne to and d 7 so thein the street or glue and sit in the street or glue themselves— sit in the street or glue themselves to - sit in the street or glue themselves to a bus. so yeah, tne— themselves to a bus. so yeah, tne wanttnt— themselves to a bus. so yeah, the working class— themselves to a bus. so yeah, the working class people got got tntnts— the working class people got got tntnts-na— the working class people got got tntnts-na you- the working class people got got things-do you think- the working class people got got things-do you think it'sl things to do. do you think it's working their campaign? no,

absolutely not. i mean, if absolutely not. i mean, maybe if tnew— absolutely not. i mean, maybe if tnew-ant— absolutely not. i mean, maybe if tnew-antltan-t— absolutely not. i mean, maybe if they and don't know, they went and i don't know, ttaetet— they went and i don't know, ttaetet-ta- blocked the roads to glastonbury, i'd some glastonbury, i'd have some respect— glastonbury, i'd have some respect tar— glastonbury, i'd have some respect for them. er?" e respect for them. but they can't because half of their mates are going exactly. yeah going to them. exactly. yeah and just oil, you've and with just stop oil, you've got and with just stop oil, you've eat to — and with just stop oil, you've eat to tattaw— and with just stop oil, you've got to follow the _ and with just stop oil, you've got to follow the money. they're not—ideological- not some sort of ideological group— not some sort of ideological group-twtnt- not some sort of ideological group-trying t0- group that are trying to make a better— group that are trying to make a better-tnew-re- group that are trying to make a better-they're-by. better world. they're paid by green— better world. they're paid by green energy— better world. they're paid by green energy-ta- better world. they're paid by green energy to advance green energy barons to advance an atenta— green energy barons to advance an agenta tnat— green energy barons to advance an agenda that makes those green energy—pate- energy barons rich. so, dale hm..— vince, the founder of ecotricity, _ vince, the founder of ecotricity, worth over £100 ecotricity, is worth over £100 nttttan. — ecotricity, is worth over £100 million. .funds_ ecotricity, is worth over £100 million. funds stop million. he funds just stop oil. he million. he funds just stop oil. ne-twnts— million. he funds just stop oil. he .funds-labour- million. he funds just stop oil. he funds labour party. he also funds the labour party. so he also funds the labour party. sa rast— he also funds the labour party. sa just stap— he also funds the labour party. so just stop oil,— he also funds the labour party. so just stop oil, go out and mate— so just stop oil, go out and mate tt— so just stop oil, go out and make it look— so just stop oil, go out and make it look as— so just stop oil, go out and make it look as if there's this tree— make it look as if there's this nwge pwttte— make it look as if there's this huge public upswelling and swppan— huge public upswelling and swppan-treen- huge public upswelling and support green energy support for the green energy tnat— support for the green energy tnat-vtnee— support for the green energy that vince provides us. and that dale vince provides us. and he that dale vince provides us. and ne-tne— that dale vince provides us. and he-the labour— that dale vince provides us. and he the labour party to he funds the labour party to pass— he funds the labour party to pass-tnat— he funds the labour party to pass-that make- he funds the labour party to pass that make him pass policies that make him nan.— pass policies that make him nan-tens- pass policies that make himi rich.-tens.millions rich. he gets tens of millions of rich. he gets tens of millions at pawnts— rich. he gets tens of millions at pawnts tn— rich. he gets tens of millions of pounds in taxpayers subsidy, or of pounds in taxpayers subsidy, er ratner— of pounds in taxpayers subsidy, er ratner nts— of pounds in taxpayers subsidy, or rather his company does. and atsa— or rather his company does. and atsa tnew— or rather his company does. and atsa tnew pass— or rather his company does. and also they pass policies. so keir starner— also they pass policies. so keir starmer said,— also they pass policies. so keir starmer said, i'm— also they pass policies. so keir starmer said, i'm going to stop wann— starmer said, i'm going to stop wartn sea— starmer said, i'm going to stop wartn sea at— starmer said, i'm going to stop north sea oil and— starmer said, i'm going to stop north sea oil and gas. that's tasteattw— north sea oil and gas. that's basically like— north sea oil and gas. that's basically like mafia move basically like a mafia move going— basically like a mafia move going tn— basically like a mafia move going tn ant— basically like a mafia move going in and shutting down. are you sweeesttnt— going in and shutting down. are you suggesting there's a causal ttnt— you suggesting there's a causal ttnt tnere— you suggesting there's a causal ttnt tnere tn— you suggesting there's a causal link there in that— you suggesting there's a causal link there in that keir starmer is link there in that keir starmer ts—an- link there in that keir starmeri ts—an-tasts is changing policy on the basis of is changing policy on the basis tat-tasters?— is changing policy on the basis of-backers? well,- is changing policy on the basis of backers? well, if of these backers? well, if sanetatw— of these backers? well, if somebody-you - of these backers? well, if somebody you a bunch somebody gives you a bunch of money—ta- somebody gives you a bunch of nanew—ta wnatl somebody gives you a bunch of. money—do what you money and then you do what you

wnat— money and then you do what you wnatlwants— money and then you do what you wnatlwants you— money and then you do what you what-wants you to— money and then you do what you what wants you to do, i mean, what he wants you to do, i mean, tnat— what he wants you to do, i mean, tnat stutt— what he wants you to do, i mean, tnat eawtt te— what he wants you to do, i mean, that could be coincidence. leo tnat— that could be coincidence. leo that happens— that could be coincidence. leo that happens to— that could be coincidence. leo that happens to me- that could be coincidence. leo that happens to me all the time. it's just pure, pure coincidence. okay. we're going to to a question to move on now to a question from where is gwen? hi, from gwen. where is gwen? hi, gwen. you ? should the gwen. how are you? should the royal— gwen. how are you? should the royal cattete— gwen. how are you? should the royal college be— i" at; 7 should the royal college be investigated atter— royal college be investigated atter tne— royal college be investigated after the cat— royal college be investigated after the cat gender out ? tv/tziu?“ after the cat gender out? yeah. rye cottage— after the cat gender out? yeah. rye cottage .— after the cat gender out? yeah. rye cottage . tnt— after the cat gender out? yeah. rye college . i'm glad you rye college. i'm glad you mentioned the name of the college. so this is this. this college. so this is this. this college. you must have heard it. this recording the. the this recording of the. the teacher the two girls teacher berating the two girls about that they about the fact that they wouldn't their who wouldn't respect their peer who identified cat. and now . identified as a cat. and now. now kemi badenoch, who's also the minister for women and equalities , has now said she's equalities, has now said she's written to ofsted. in fact, i saw the letter. it was on twitter. she's written to ofsted. so it said, maybe rye college ought to be investigated because that that there because that belief that there are two sexes, that those are immutable, actually immutable, all that's actually protected the protected by law ever since the maya case. but the maya forstater case. but the thing diane, now, there's thing is, diane, now, there's been a of and been a lot of stories and anecdotes this week about children as cats. children identifying as cats. right? is right? apparently, this is a thing. birbalsingh, thing. katharine birbalsingh, who's of michaela who's the head of michaela college, to college, has has spoken to teachers cat in their teachers who have a cat in their

class. the cat allowed to class. and the cat is allowed to lie on the floor and responds to miaowing. right but you've also had telegraph a report had the telegraph did a report this which was saying that this week which was saying that there pupil they found there was one pupil they found who identifying as a horse. who was identifying as a horse. there who was there was another who was identifying dinosaur. there identifying as a dinosaur. there was wearing a cape and was one who's wearing a cape and identifying moon . right identifying as a moon. right now, i think what's going on there are being there is those pupils are being satirical. i think they're joking adults have joking because the adults have sort gone along with this. sort of gone along with this. yeah. and the adults yeah. and because the adults sort have bought this sort of have bought into this nonsense the nonsense self id stuff, the pupils just testing it. pupils are just testing it. they're okay, if i can be they're like, okay, if i can be whatever gender i want, i can be a moon. kids are absolute wind up. tterenant— a moon. kids are absolute wind up. merchant yeah,— kids are absolute wind up. merchant yeah, course up. merchant yeah, of course tnat-s—tatnti up. merchant yeah, of course tnat-s—tatnt tai up. merchant yeah, of course. that's—going to do. that's what they're going to do. as-waw— that's what they're going to do. as-waw twe— that's what they're going to do. as-waw ewe-a- that's what they're going to do.i as-you give-a rule as soon as you give them a rule ant— as soon as you give them a rule ant-san— as soon as you give them a rule ant-tan see— as soon as you give them a rule and-can see the— as soon as you give them a rule and can see the flaw in and they can see the flaw in tnat— and they can see the flaw in tnat rwte — and they can see the flaw in that rule and— and they can see the flaw in that rule and they can see how it that rule and they can see how tt mates— that rule and they can see how it makes absolutely no sense. wean— it makes absolutely no sense. wean-tset— it makes absolutely no sense. yeah,-used to- it makes absolutely no sense. yeah,-used to be- yeah, like i used to be a teaster— yeah, like i used to be a teacher. if— yeah, like i used to be a teacher. if i— yeah, like i used to be a teacher. if i would have gone in ant— teacher. if i would have gone in ant tt— teacher. if i would have gone in ant tt tnese— teacher. if i would have gone in and if these rules— teacher. if i would have gone in and if these rules were here, tnese— and if these rules were here, tnese taws— and if these rules were here, these days, i'd— and if these rules were here, these days, i'd have walked in. i'd these days, i'd have walked in. t-t-nat— these days, i'd have walked in. i'd-had noah's- these days, i'd have walked in. i'd had noah's ark right in i'd have had noah's ark right in tent— i'd have had noah's ark right in trant-t-t— i'd have had noah's ark right in front-i'd have— i'd have had noah's ark right in front-i'd have had- front of me. i'd have had ertas— front of me. i'd have had zebras,-tigers,| front of me. i'd have had. zebras,-tigers, and zebras, lions and tigers, and you— zebras, lions and tigers, and wan—anwtntntl zebras, lions and tigers, andi wan—anwtntne as zebras, lions and tigers, and. wan—anwtntne as a you couldn't say anything as a teaster— you couldn't say anything as a teaster-t— you couldn't say anything as a| teacher,-i-you're teacher, because i know you're nat— teacher, because i know you're not authentically— teacher, because i know you're not authentically a zebra, but you— not authentically a zebra, but yea — not authentically a zebra, but you wean.—

not authentically a zebra, but you can. tv/tziu?“ i " of you can. yeah, you can. of course you can.— you can. yeah, you can. of course you can. you- you can. tv/tziu?“ i " of course you can. you can. and tnts— course you can. you can. and tntslwnw— course you can. you can. and tntslwnw tent— course you can. you can. and this why kemi badenoch want this is why kemi badenoch want to-investigation.- this is why kemi badenoch want to-investigation. - to have this investigation. neause— to have this investigation. because-think,- to have this investigation. because-think, like. to have this investigation. - because-think, like many because she, i think, like many of us are absolutely appalled that teacher showed no sign that the teacher showed no sign of ability discuss, the of the ability to discuss, the ability debate. ability to debate, to debate. well, they well, she said they were despicable. they said they despicable. yeah, they said they were despicable, which is awful because the difference because they know the difference between being a cat. between a human being and a cat. is yeah. is that despicable? yeah. well, is that despicable? yeah. well, t tan-t— is that despicable? yeah. well, t tan-t tnaw. — is that despicable? yeah. well, i don't know.lmean,- is that despicable? yeah. well, i don't know. mean, i've seen i don't know. i mean, i've seen the state of modern kids. they're pretty obese, so. so i think what's identify as a moon, that makes sense. i've seen i've seen a that makes sense. i've seen i've a tew ttts— that makes sense. i've seen i've seen a few kids that— i've seen i've seen a few kids that genuinely stutt— seen a few kids that genuinely eautt exen— seen a few kids that genuinely eautt exert a— seen a few kids that genuinely could exert a gravitational pull on could exert a gravitational pull an tne— could exert a gravitational pull an tne tttes— could exert a gravitational pull on the tides. yes,— could exert a gravitational pull on the tides. yes, in a sense, tnew-re— on the tides. yes, in a sense, were re— on the tides. yes, in a sense, they're more like— on the tides. yes, in a sense, they're more like moons than ettttren— they're more like moons than children. yeah.— they're more like moons than children. yeah. _ they're more like moons than children. yeah. i— they're more like moons than children. yeah. i think this is all a drive to make the because i many kids are being i mean so many kids are being put into sort of put into this sort of transitioning pipeline is to bnng transitioning pipeline is to bring of bring down the cost of surgically transitioning the kids if they identify as kids because if they identify as a you can get a vet to do a cat, you can get a vet to do it. also at lunchtime it. yeah, but also at lunchtime time. so they're allowed to steep.— time. so they're allowed to steep. tnew-re— e so they're allowed to sleep. they're allowed to be out.— sleep. they're allowed to be out-they— sleep. they're allowed to be out-lthey-fed- sleep. they're allowed to be out..they-fed cat- sleep. they're allowed to be out. they fed cat food? out. do they get fed cat food? no.— out. do they get fed cat food? up. they— out. do they get fed cat food? no, they wouldn't— out. do they get fed cat food? no, they wouldn't touch- out. do they get fed cat food? no, they wouldn't touch that. it's not very nice. well they snautt. —

it's not very nice. well they should. yeah.— e tip " ti.ti well they should. yeah. because e til: i ii well they should. yeah. because they're eats. —neet- should. yeah. because they're cats. _ need to - should. yeah. because they're. cats. _need to prove cats. yeah. they need to prove that cat. it's actually that they're cat. it's actually nttner— that they're cat. it's actually ntgner grate— that they're cat. it's actually higher grade _than - that they're cat. it's actually. higher grade _than normal higher grade meat than normal sensat— higher grade meat than normal school dinners.— higher grade meat than normal school dinners. yeah, that's pratattw— school dinners. yeah, that's pratattw-as— school dinners. yeah, that's probably as well. tv/tirit" probably true as well. yeah, tt-s— probably true as well. yeah, tt-s neat. tt— probably true as well. yeah, it's meat. it is— probably true as well. yeah, it's meat. it is a— probably true as well. tv/tirit" e it is a nonsense. it's meat. it is a nonsense. anyway.— it's meat. it is a nonsense. anyway. — e it is a nonsense. anyway, we're going move on anyway, we're going to move on ta— anyway, we're going to move on now to l question _ anyway, we're going to move on now to question from chiara. now to a question from chiara. wnere-s— now to a question from chiara. where's chiara?_ now to a question from chiara. where's chiara? hello i just wantet— where's chiara? hello i just wantet-tne- where's chiara? hello i just wanted the aussies are wanted to ask if the aussies are right question musk. wanted to ask if the aussies are rightnow uestion musk. wanted to ask if the aussies are rightnow you'rei musk. wanted to ask if the aussies are rightnow you're an musk. wanted to ask if the aussies are rightnow you're an aussierk. yes. now you're an aussie waursett. — yes. now you're an aussie waursett. t— yes. now you're an aussie waursett. t ann— yes. now you're an aussie yourself. i am, yeah. you said it yourself. i am, yeah. you said tt-an— yourself. i am, yeah. you said tt-an etae— yourself. i am, yeah. you said it-an edge. yeah- yourself. i am, yeah. you said it an edge. yeah you don't it with an edge. yeah you don't want—your- it with an edge. yeah you don't want—your nanei want us to criticise your home nanetant. — want us to criticise your home homeland. imean_ want us to criticise your home homeland.imean ,- want us to criticise your home homeland. mean , i've been homeland. i mean, i've been tuesttantnt— homeland. i mean, i've been questioning musk years, questioning elon musk for years, so questioning elon musk for years, sa—ta— questioning elon musk for years, sa—ta knew- questioning elon musk for years, sa—ta tnaw tt- questioning elon musk for years, so_to know if i'm- so i just want to know if i'm rttnt. — so i just want to know if i'm rtgnt. wett— so i just want to know if i'm right. twice. i so i just want to know if i'm right. twice. rifles well, right. well, basically. well, tnts— right. well, basically. well, this-because,— right. well, basically. well, this-because, of- right. twice. i well, this because, of course, elon this is because, of course, elon trust.— this is because, of course, elon trust. as— this is because, of course, elon trust. as you— this is because, of course, elon musk, as you know, taken over twttter— musk, as you know, taken over twitter-basically- musk, as you know, taken over twitter basically said, twitter and he's basically said, teat.— twitter and he's basically said, teat-tant— twitter and he's basically said, teen-tent ta— twitter and he's basically said, look, going to have free look, we're going to have free speeen — look, we're going to have free speeen an — look, we're going to have free speeen an tne— look, we're going to have free speech on the platform. he's trautnt— speech on the platform. he'si brought—accounts brought back lots of accounts tnat—tar- brought back lots of accountsj that_for.good that were banned for no good reason. sometimes because reason. sometimes just because tnew— reason. sometimes just because they- difference - reason. sometimes just because they difference between they knew the difference between a—warnannaw-l a man and a woman. and now various countries— a man and a woman. and now various countries saying, various countries are saying, na-tne— various countries are saying, no, the censorship various countries are saying,- no,-the censorship back. no, we want the censorship back. ant— no, we want the censorship back. ant ttustratta— no, we want the censorship back. and australia these. and australia is one of these. ttustratta— and australia is one of these. australia—saying. australia is basically saying tnew-re— australia is basically saying tnew-re-ttne- australia is basically saying they're fine elon musk they're going to fine elon musk up ta— they're going to fine elon musk up to natt— they're going to fine elon musk up to tan a— they're going to fine elon musk up to half a million a day uresst— up to half a million a day unesst ne— up to half a million a day unless he starts censoring peapte— people. they don't like. he nttnt— people. they don't like. he ntent-saw— people. they don't like. he might say, come on then, might just say, come on then, tet-s— might just say, come on then, tet-s-wnat— might just say, come on then, tet-s-wnat you— might just say, come on then, let's what you got. yeah, let's see what you got. yeah, i'd let's see what you got. yeah, t-t tave— let's see what you got. yeah, t-t tote-tne- let's see what you got. yeah, i'd love the australians i'd love to see the australians try-tne— i'd love to see the australians tw-ttne ttan— i'd love to see the australians try fine elon musk, see how try and fine elon musk, see how

tnat— try and fine elon musk, see how tnat warts— try and fine elon musk, see how that works out. _ try and fine elon musk, see how that works out. twice. that works out. well, he is a bit like a guy who just already owns a lamborghini. parks it owns a lamborghini. so parks it wherever because he can wherever he likes because he can afford ticket. exactly afford the ticket. exactly but what i interesting, i what i found interesting, i investigate report and they investigate this report and they only interviewed 4800 australians. so let's start right there with the fact that their sample group is tiny. but isn't australia quite ” gii». e but isn't australia quite small? tsn-t— isn't australia quite small? tsn-t tnat— isn't australia quite small? isn't that like— isn't australia quite small? isn't that like half the paputattan— isn't that like half the population of population you're thinking of new— population you're thinking of new zealand_ population you're thinking of new zealand ?_ population you're thinking of new zealand ? oh, okay, fine. so new zealand? oh, okay, fine. so ant— new zealand? oh, okay, fine. so ant atsa— new zealand? oh, okay, fine. so ant atsa tne— new zealand? oh, okay, fine. so and also the last— new zealand? oh, okay, fine. so and also the last report was in zona— and also the last report was in zeta ant— and also the last report was in zeta ant tnew— and also the last report was in 2019 and they were making all the comparison— 2019 and they were making all the comparison between online nate— the comparison between online nate nas— the comparison between online hate has radically— the comparison between online hate has radically improved sne— hate has radically improved since 2019. _ hate has radically improved since 2019. yes,- hate has radically improved since 2019. “it; “at: since 2019. yes, we had a pandemic in between calm down, darling. but also elon musk didn't take over twitter until 27th of october 20, 22. so they seem to be pinning a lot on elon, whereas this report covers that whole amount of time. that's interesting. i think it's a very weak report, but also i don't see any evidence of this rise in hate speech. i think a lot of the people— rise in hate speech. i think a lot of the people are- ” i i i think a lot of the people are just sort of lot of the people are just sort at sawtnp— lot of the people are just sort at sawtnp were— lot of the people are just sort of saying, we're seeing opinions we tan-t— of saying, we're seeing opinions we tan-t ttte— of saying, we're seeing opinions we don't like. yeah. and that

aunts— we don't like. yeah. and that counts as hate— we don't like. yeah. and that counts as hate speech about. wean.— counts as hate speech about. yeah, absolutely.— counts as hate speech about. yeah, absolutely. i— counts as hate speech about. yeah, absolutely. i mean,- counts as hate speech about. yeah, absolutely. i mean, hate speech nebulous speech is such a nebulous defined it's basically defined thing. it's basically i mean, it basically means something, that something, something that you don't, something something, something that you don�*hate. something something, something that you don�*hate. yes. something something, something that you don�*hate. yes. yeah.)mething something, something that you don�*hate. yes. yeah. you hing you hate. so yes. yeah. you can't really sort of allege hate against it. you can't objectively define it. but should musk objectively define it. but. should -musk.taking should elon musk be taking a stant— should elon musk be taking a stant-tnese— should elon musk be taking a stand these countries come stand when these countries come in stand when these countries come tnwe-— stand when these countries come tnwe- neet— stand when these countries come tnwe- neet re- in and say we need more aensarsttp— in and say we need more censorship, then in and say we need more censorship,-then end censorship, well, then you end up censorship, well, then you end up-is_ censorship, well, then you end up-ts wnat— censorship, well, then you end up-is what tech- up in this is what tech earnantpes— up in this is what tech companies "cat up in this is what tech- companies-they pander to companies do. they pander to every corporation. i every every corporation. so, i mean, google and all the different companies, what different tech companies, what they china is obviously they offer in china is obviously vastly different and censored compared get in the compared to what you get in the west. that's true. they do west. yeah that's true. they do make rules west. yeah that's true. they do make-rules for- make different rules for different— make different rules for different-youl make different rules for- different-you know, different countries. you know, it different countries. you know, tt—otaw- different countries. you know, tt—otaw wettl it does happen. okay. well, w-eeta— it does happen. okay. well, we're-to-nowl it does happen. okay. well,| we're-to-now to we're going to go on now to anatner— we're going to go on now to another question— we're going to go on now to another question from jackie. jackie— another question from jackie. - taatte—wtnstan jackie hello. hello. was winston churchill supremacist? churchill a white supremacist? it i knew him well. i think he nat— it i knew him well. i think he nat-tssues.— it i knew him well. i think he had-issues. no- it i knew him well. i think he had issues. no look, the had some issues. no look, the tntnt—tuesttan- had some issues. no look, the. thing-question comes thing about this question comes up atatn— thing about this question comes up agatn ant— thing about this question comes up again and again, because tnere-s—sane- up again and again, because. there's-some reason, there's always for some reason, there's always for some reason, tne-aways.— there's always for some reason, the always, constantly there's always for some reason, the after always, constantly there's always for some reason, the after him. ilways, constantly there's always for some reason, the after him. this s, constantly there's always for some reason, the after him. this is constantly there's always for some reason, theafter him. this is saintintly go after him. this is saint taut-s— go after him. this is saint paul's cathedral. an paul's cathedral. there was an arttete— paul's cathedral. there was an arttete an— paul's cathedral. there was an article on the— paul's cathedral. there was an article on the saint paul's catnetrat— article on the saint paul's. cathedral—was cathedral website, which was up forlyear— cathedral website, which was up forlyear calling— cathedral website, which was up for year calling winston for a year calling winston cnurenttt— for a year calling winston churchill supremacist for a year calling winston- churchill-supremacist . churchill a white supremacist. pr..— churchill a white supremacist. un-wnw— churchill a white supremacist. un-wnw ts— churchill a white supremacist. un-wnw ts tt— churchill a white supremacist. uh, why is it about winston uh, now, why is it about winston cnurenttte— uh, now, why is it about winston churchill? they're— uh, now, why is it about winston churchill? they're always going

anter— churchill? they're always going atter—taat— churchill? they're always going after—fact that - churchill? they're always going after—fact that he. after? isn't the fact that he teat— after? isn't the fact that he teat tne — after? isn't the fact that he beat the ultimate fascist? adolf utter— beat the ultimate fascist? adolf hitler doesn't _ beat the ultimate fascist? adolf hitler doesn't that give him tutas— hitler doesn't that give him some kudos ? _ hitler doesn't that give him some kudos ? flittiee some kudos? well, not just the ultimate, ultimate fascist, but the socialist the ultimate national socialist , which is so obviously, you know, for a lot. on the left, adolf hitler is their hero. and that's why they try and emulate his anti—semitism. but yeah , his anti—semitism. but yeah, winston churchill, i think, because, you know , for people of because, you know, for people of a certain age, he's he was you know, we grew up thinking he defeated the. he's this great guy - defeated the. he's this great guy . so obviously, anybody on guy. so obviously, anybody on a pedestal, literally on a pedestal, literally on a pedestal, he's he's on the top of he's they've got statues of him in some places. they want to tear him down. it's very odd, tnautn.— tear him down. it's very odd, tnaugn. tsn-t— tear him down. it's very odd, though, isn't it,— i : it's very odd, though, isn't it, because tnere-s— though, isn't it, because tnere-s na— though, isn't it, because there's no attempt to contextualise. i accept that he wtt— contextualise. i accept that he wttt-wews- contextualise. i accept that he will-views-we l will have had views that we tan-t— will have had views that we don't-acceptable- will have had views that we don't- acceptable he don't find acceptable because he was-tant— don't find acceptable because he was-tang tne— don't find acceptable because he was-long time ago- don't find acceptable because he was long time ago and was born a long time ago and peapte— was born a long time ago and peapte nat— was born a long time ago and people had different views and wews— people had different views and enante— people had different views and views change over time. so what is views change over time. so what tslataut— views change over time. so what islabout-activists- views change over time. so what is about activists that is it about the activists that tnew— is it about the activists that- they—historical they can't understand historical anteat— context, that they're always judging — context, that they're always. putting—past context, that they're always- judginsi—past by judging people from the past by tnetr— judging people from the past by tnetr awn— judging people from the past by their own standards? do they not tntnt— their own standards? do they not tntnt tnew-re— their own standards? do they not think they're going _ their own standards? do they not think they're going to get judged— think they're going to get tuteet-neanl think they're going to get judged mean, i'm judged in like, i mean, i'm judging— judged in like, i mean, i'm- tutetne—teaause judging them right now because

tnew-re—ttte- they're all idiots. but like in aea-yrs— they're all idiots. but like in aea-yrs tne.- they're all idiots. but like in- a-years time,-going a hundred years time, it's going to-worse, right? - a hundred years time, it's going to worse, right? flittiee to be even worse, right? well, it's to be even worse, right? well, in rew— to be even worse, right? well, us very strange— to be even worse, right? well, it's very strange that it was also on the church of england website because do they not preach that preach forgiveness? wait, that doesn't preach forgiveness? wait, that taesn-t—at- preach forgiveness? wait, that doesn't—at all. - preach forgiveness? wait, thatj doesn't—at all. the doesn't surprise me at all. the cnuren— doesn't surprise me at all. the cnuren at— doesn't surprise me at all. the church of england— doesn't surprise me at all. the church of england has gone very wate— woke, isn't it? oh, yeah, absolutely. _ woke, isn't it? oh, yeah, absolutely. badly, i absolutely. really badly, i wautt— absolutely. really badly, i wautt saw.— absolutely. really badly, i wautt saw. — absolutely. really badly, i would say. “it; iii" e would say. yes. but aren't they supposed be like forgiveness supposed to be like forgiveness and lighter and trying to see the lighter side always look on the side of life? always look on the bright side. they bright side. aren't they supposed to be like that? or have with have i got confused with the film? that's life film? that's monty python's life of film? that's monty python's life at-rttnte— film? that's monty python's life at-rttnte-we- film? that's monty python's life at-rttnte-we 90-- of brian, right? there we go. ataw— of brian, right? there we go. otaw. taat— of brian, right? there we go. okay, good. now— of brian, right? there we go. okay, good. now you got that one wrant — okay, good. now you got that one wr-ong okay— okay, good. now you got that one wrong. okay listen,— okay, good. now you got that one wrong. okay listen, would wrong. okay listen, those would be wrong. okay listen, those would te—tuesttansl wrong. okay listen, those wouldi be_questions. we be some excellent questions. we nave—canna- be some excellent questions. we nave—eantnt upi have got some more coming up tran— have got some more coming up tram—auttenee- have got some more coming up from audience later have got some more coming up frothe audience later have got some more coming up frothe show. audience later have got some more coming up frothe show. and udience later have got some more coming up frothe show. and also ice later have got some more coming up frothe show. and also stillater have got some more coming up frothe show. and also still tor in the show. and also still to aarnee—t- in the show. and also still toi come,_be talking come, i'm going to be talking to stetta— come, i'm going to be talking to stetta-ant— come, i'm going to be talking toi stella-and-burgo stella o'malley and joseph burgo tran— stella o'malley and joseph burgo tra—are- stella o'malley and joseph burgo trarnare— tatnel from jen specht, who are going to from jen specht, who are going talnere— from jen specht, who are going talnere ta— from jen specht, who are going to.here to tell— from jen specht, who are going to.here to tell me- from jen specht, who are going to here to tell me about the to be here to tell me about the tntnt— to be here to tell me about the new think tank—

. you're listening to gb news radio . welcome back to free radio. welcome back to free speeen— radio. welcome back to free speech nation— radio. welcome back to free speech nation with- ?itt: welcome back to free speech nation with me 3itt: welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew dawe— speech nation with me andrew nawte tne— speech nation with me andrew doyle the gemspec group is an international— doyle the gemspec group is an international alliance of professionals,- international alliance of professionals, trans people.

detransitioners_ professionals, trans people. detransitioners parent groups ant— detransitioners parent groups ant atners— detransitioners parent groups and others who— detransitioners parent groups and others who seek high quality tar— and others who seek high quality care for gender— and others who seek high quality care for gender related ttstress— care for gender related distress. the- care for gender related distress. the group has recently announced they— distress. the group has recently announced they are establishing announced they are establishing atntnt— announced they are establishing a tntnt tant— announced they are establishing a think tank which will develop an alternative— a think tank which will develop an alternative to— a think tank which will develop an alternative to what they see as tne — an alternative to what they see as the flawed— an alternative to what they see as the flawed standards of care pranatet— as the flawed standards of care pranatetltne— as the flawed standards of care promoted the world promoted by the world professional- promoted by the world professional association for transeenter— professional association for transgender health or path . the transgender health or path. the tntnt— transgender health or path. the tntnt tant— transgender health or path. the think tank will— transgender health or path. the think tank will create a non netteat— think tank will create a non medical guide— think tank will create a non medical guide relying upon contributions— medical guide relying upon contributions from experts and teattnt— contributions from experts and leading thinkers— contributions from experts and leading thinkers in various ttetts— leading thinkers in various fields impacted by gender ideology — fields impacted by gender ideology tnt— fields impacted by gender ideology. and that's due to be putttsnet— ideology. and that's due to be putttsnet tn— ideology. and that's due to be published in november this year. so published in november this year. sa nere— published in november this year. sa nere ta— published in november this year. so here to tell— published in november this year. so here to tell me— published in november this year. so here to tell me more, i'm pteaset— so here to tell me more, i'm pteaset ta— so here to tell me more, i'm pleased to welcome jen specht, ttreetar— pleased to welcome jen specht, director stella _ pleased to welcome jen specht, director stella o'malley and we— director stella o'malley and vice director— director stella o'malley and vice director joe _ director stella o'malley and vice directorjoe burgo, who want— vice directorjoe burgo, who tnant wau— vice directorjoe burgo, who thank you both— vice directorjoe burgo, who thank you both for coming . thank you both for coming. stetta.— thank you both for coming. stetta. tn— thank you both for coming. stella, i'm going to come to you first— stella, i'm going to come to you ttrst ataut— stella, i'm going to come to you first about this. _ stella, i'm going to come to you first about this. can— stella, i'm going to come to you first about this. can you eaptatn— first about this. can you explain what— first about this. can you explain what path is and your retattansntp— explain what path is and your relationship with— explain what path is and your relationship with them as jen speent— relationship with them as jen speent w— relationship with them as jen specht w path— relationship with them as jen specht w path is— relationship with them as jen specht w path is an organisation tnat— specht w path is an organisation tnat was— specht w path is an organisation that was started _ specht w path is an organisation that was started in— specht w path is an organisation that was started in the late 70s ant— that was started in the late 70s ant tnere— that was started in the late 70s and there were— that was started in the late 70s and there were kind of a motley group— and there were kind of a motley group at— and there were kind of a motley grow at trans— and there were kind of a motley group of trans people and professionals— group of trans people and professionals who were working in professionals who were working tn tne— professionals who were working tn tne area— professionals who were working tn tne ant— professionals who were working in the area and they were areatet— in the area and they were ereatet ta— in the area and they were created to promote trans gender

neattn.— created to promote trans gender neattn. ta— created to promote trans gender neattn. ta netp— created to promote trans gender health, to help people who are transitioning— health, to help people who are transitioning and— health, to help people who are transitioning and over the years tnew— transitioning and over the years tnew trtet— transitioning and over the years tnew trtet ta— transitioning and over the years they tried to stay— transitioning and over the years they tried to stay as a professional- they tried to stay as a professional group and they trtet— professional group and they trtet ta— professional group and they trtet ta stay— professional group and they tried to stay kind of halfway serious. but— tried to stay kind of halfway serious. but by— tried to stay kind of halfway serious. but by the- tried to stay kind of halfway serious. $7000 serious. but by the early 2000, they were overtaken by activists. and that is arguably why activists are running everything these days to us gender health and so as we started out, we started jen specht as a response to this extraordinary gender ideology just creeping everywhere from cats to schools to us young children who have some terribly harrowing stories. and families are being ripped apart because they're transitioning too early and they're not able to make these, you know, permanent decisions about their bodies. and so we started jen specht as a as a counter organiser nation, and we realised that not only do we need to have a counter organisation that offers a different view to how you could be gender diverse and people could be kind of, for example , could be kind of, for example, they could live a very gender diverse without diverse life without medicalizing. to medicalizing. you don't have to medicalize. but also we had to show because because

show that because because w pat's their entire kind of way of operating is hashtag no debate. they don't debate. they shut people down. they they, you know, they absolutely defame. people are certainly they make very little of an awful lot of people's reputations . and as people's reputations. and as a result, arguably , an awful lot result, arguably, an awful lot of people have been cowed and silenced out. and so we started to say, well, we're going to have to offer something and we're going to have to go head to them. and we to head with them. and we have created and as said, a think created and as you said, a think tank that kind of is putting what we think are the best minds together . here to talk what we think are the best minds together. here to talk about genderin together. here to talk about gender in a more rational way and in a healthier way, because our approach to gender is a healthy approach to sex and genden healthy approach to sex and gender, i.e, create a framework where people can be diverse . where people can be diverse. it's maybe little boys can run around in dresses, but nobody wants to call him a girl. well, and nobody is making him take puberty blockers or offering a fast track of a medical medic illicit pathway and so we're

creating a gender care framework and we're going to release it as such at our next conference. so i'll bring joe in at this ti. i ” irix. i�*7ti;”ti; so i'll bring joe in at this point. tts— i'll bring joe in at this point. tt-s wew— i'll bring joe in at this point. it's very interesting what stetta — it's very interesting what stetta ts— it's very interesting what stella is saying about the aettwtsts— stella is saying about the activists insofar as there have teen— activists insofar as there have teen-trans— activists insofar as there have. been _trans-groups been sort of trans gender groups in been sort of trans gender groups tn-tnat— in the past that weren't eapturet— in the past that weren't eapturet by— in the past that weren't captured by these activists. if you— captured by these activists. if you 90— captured by these activists. if you 90 past— captured by these activists. if you 90 past 12— captured by these activists. if you go back 12 years, mermaids even-sawtnt— you go back 12 years, mermaids even saying sensible even were saying quite sensible tntnts— even were saying quite sensible things promotional things in their promotional ttterature— things in their promotional literature-how- things in their promotional literature how for the literature about how for the mast— literature about how for the mast part.— literature about how for the most part, puberty resolves a lot most part, puberty resolves a tat at— most part, puberty resolves a tat at tnese— most part, puberty resolves a lot of these feelings of gender twspnarta— lot of these feelings of gender twspnarta tn— lot of these feelings of gender dysphoria in childhood. but now tnew— dysphoria in childhood. but now tnew-tnts— dysphoria in childhood. but now tnew-tnts ttnt- dysphoria in childhood. but now they-this kind of- they do have this kind of strttent— they do have this kind of strident activist quality . and strident activist quality. and as strident activist quality. and -assasw— strident activist quality. and as says, no debate . they as stella says, no debate. they wtt— as stella says, no debate. they wtttlataut— as stella says, no debate. they will-about their— as stella says, no debate. they will about their opponents , will lie about their opponents, tnew— will lie about their opponents, tnew-snear— will lie about their opponents, they-smear them,- will lie about their opponents, they smear them, they will they will smear them, they will just— they will smear them, they will just nat— they will smear them, they will just not interested— they will smear them, they will just not interested in participating in like adults. no.— participating in like adults. we. nat— participating in like adults. we. not at— participating in like adults. no, not at all. _ participating in like adults. no, not at all. and- participating in like adults. no, not at all. and that's why we are going to them. we're following them where they're holding their conference is and saying, yes, debate , we will saying, yes, debate, we will debate. we will present a totally different point of view totally different point of view to yours. at the same time and in the same place. this is what we did in april in cologne. in the same place. this is what we did in april in cologne . we we did in april in cologne. we had a conference with educators, lawyers, feminist , a lot of

lawyers, feminist, a lot of detransitioners , all presenting detransitioners, all presenting an alternative perspective to the one that was being talked about just down the road with a group of medical professionals talking about how you admitted after puberty blockers and when's the best time to do surgery and hormones . so we just surgery and hormones. so we just go surgery and hormones. so we just 9° up surgery and hormones. so we just go up against them and we present a completely different point of view and we insist that that, yes, there will be debate. so activists will say, but, you know, there are people who suffer gender dysphoria. suffer from gender dysphoria. they support. actually they need support. and actually the they need support. and actually tne-way— they need support. and actually tne-way ta— they need support. and actually the-way to support- they need support. and actually the way to support those the best way to support those peapte— the best way to support those peapte-atttrn — the best way to support those people affirm them people is to affirm them wnatewer— people is to affirm them whatever they - people is to affirm them whatever they say, that they teet— ts- whatever they say, that they feel_ is that. whatever they say, that theyi feel—is that not feel that they are. is that not rttnt— feel that they are. is that not rttnt e — feel that they are. is that not right ? activists— feel that they are. is that not right ? activists say- feel that they are. is that not right ? i. . right? activists say that they don't have any evidence base to support that. you can say an awful lot things life awful lot of things in life and it doesn't mean true . and it doesn't mean it's true. and what have found is this what we have found is this affirmative concept that came in about ten years ago. there's no long we don't long term evidence. we don't actually know it is, what actually know what it is, what is going to be the impact of all of these kids being affirmed? we don't actually nobody don't actually know. nobody knows who anybody says they know. not telling the know. they're not telling the truth because there is long truth because there is no long term but we term evidence. but what we do

know, because i'm a psychotherapy and so is psychotherapy wokeist and so is joe, that if somebody joe, we know that if somebody comes pain, we would comes in in deep pain, we would affirm that they're there. we would the of their would affirm the depth of their feeling. they feeling. we affirm that they want a cat. would want to be a cat. we would affirm want , you affirm whatever they want, you know, obviously most people know, and obviously most people don't want to be a cat, don't come in, want to be a cat, know is quite rare. yeah. know that is quite rare. yeah. know is extremely but know that is extremely but it's more hasn't happened. it's more like say more hasn't happened. it's more like-say effeminate- more hasn't happened. it's more like-say effeminate boys- like you say effeminate boys tetnt—tnew-rei being convinced that they're aetuattw— actually in the wrong body teause— actually in the wrong body because-only- actually in the wrong body because only one way to because there's only one way to because there's only one way to belboy_ because there's only one way to belboy tr— because there's only one way to belboy tr wee— because there's only one way to be boy or vice versa. 0” . be a boy or vice versa. or like ttttte— be a boy or vice versa. or like little lesbians who little butch lesbians who haven't discovered that haven't yet discovered that they're who feel very they're a lesbian who feel very masculine. as girl, you masculine. and as one girl, you know, said, i'm not pretty enough to be a girl. so there's yeah, so there's some really kind vulnerable people kind of sad, vulnerable people who are like, i don't like my body , i don't like who i am. body, i don't like who i am. i don't know my sexuality. don't don't know my sexuality. i don't know. normal, though, for know. it's normal, though, for adolescents, it? it is, adolescents, isn't it? it is, but it's a :i . .7’ it is, but it's a hypersexualized :i if" . .7’ it is, but it's a hypersexualized world were-tn ant— but it's a hypersexualized world we're in and there's we're living in and there's a lot-demands— we're living in and there's a lot demands teenagers lot of demands on teenagers ttte— lot of demands on teenagers twe-are— lot of demands on teenagers twe-are you- lot of demands on teenagers like, are you gay? ' ”ti; like, well, are you gay? are you natt— like, well, are you gay? are you rate wna— like, well, are you gay? are you rate who-you— like, well, are you gay? are you not? who you fancy? and some like, well, are you gay? are you nothemo you fancy? and some like, well, are you gay? are you nothem haven'ti fancy? and some like, well, are you gay? are you nothem haven't had cy? and some like, well, are you gay? are you nothem haven't had a ? and some like, well, are you gay? are you nothem haven't had a sexualsome of them haven't had a sexual awakening. and if you ask a kid before, they've had a sexual awakening do you fancy? it's

awakening who do you fancy? it's creepy. don't creepy. it's icky. they don't want but been pushed want to, but it's been pushed upon his upon them. yeah, so? so it is hard on them. it's very interesting,— irit”t: z?“ it's very interesting, though, “tit”t: ti?" it's very interesting, though, isn't “it”t: ti“ it's very interesting, though, isn't it? teeaue— interesting, though, isn't it? because this— interesting, though, isn't it? because this sounds to me a because this sounds to me like a wew— because this sounds to me like a very ttnt— because this sounds to me like a very ttnt tt— because this sounds to me like a very kind of ultra— because this sounds to me like a very kind of ultra conservative wewpttnts— very kind of ultra conservative viewpoints-what— very kind of ultra conservativel viewpoints-what-to viewpoints of what it means to be_ind- viewpoints of what it means to be_knd tne| viewpoints of what it means to- be_and the idea be male and female. and the idea tnat— be male and female. and the idea tnat your— be male and female. and the idea that your sexual— be male and female. and the idea that your sexual orientation is strnetwn— that your sexual orientation is stnentw-tt- that your sexual orientation is somehow-to your- somehow related to your tttttgtaat— somehow related to your biological sex.- somehow related to your biological sex. we know from nannan— biological sex. we know from hannah barnes's_ biological sex. we know from hannah barnes's book on the tawsttet— hannah barnes's book on the tavistock that— hannah barnes's book on the tavistock that between 80 and sea.— tavistock that between 80 and stone tt— tavistock that between 80 and 90% of adolescents who were reterret — 90% of adolescents who were reterret tt — 90% of adolescents who were referred to that— 90% of adolescents who were referred to that paediatric tenter— referred to that paediatric. tenter—sex gender clinic were same sex attraetttn. — gender clinic were same sex attraetttn. st— gender clinic were same sex attraction. so what extent is attraction. so to what extent is tnts— attraction. so to what extent is tnts ideology— attraction. so to what extent is this ideology just— attraction. so to what extent is this ideology just kind of ttxtnt— this ideology just kind of fixing gay— this ideology just kind of fixing gay people, them fixing gay people, making them strattnt— fixing gay people, making them strattnte — fixing gay people, making them straight ? well,— fixing gay people, making them straight? �*ftt�*ti;.. fixing gay people, making them straight ? �*ftt�*ti;.. fixing gay people, making them straight? �*ftt�*ti;.. itg straight? well, that's my big concern. and you know, what you're very you're saying is it's very regressive so are very regressive. so these are very regressive. so these are very regressive gender roles. i mean, a who likes to wear a dress a boy who likes to wear a dress is actually a girl. mean, 40 is actually a girl. i mean, 40 years ago, we were trying to expand the possibilities for gender . and now we've got gender roles. and now we've got these rigid roles and you these very rigid roles and you fit one the fit into either one or the other. my big concern is that camp boys are being transed. and, you know, we're dealing right now with these big conversion therapy bans saying that if you challenge someone's

transgender identity, that's conversion therapy . so i would conversion therapy. so i would say that what's going on with affirmative care in the in gids at the tavistock, that's the conversion therapy they're taking butch lesbians and camp boys and they're saying you're born in the wrong body and we're going to fix you and we'll make you normal. so it's interesting teause— you normal. so it's interesting teause twe— you normal. so it's interesting because i've met— you normal. so it's interesting because i've met a— so it's interesting because i've met a number of detransitioners.— because i've met a number of detransitioners. i— because i've met a number of detransitioners. i remember one in detransitioners. i remember one tn—wew- detransitioners. i remember one tn—wew rust- detransitioners. i remember one tn—wew tust ani in particular was a very just an ettentnate— in particular was a very just an. effeminate—young. effeminate gay man, very young. but effeminate gay man, very young. tut-ne— effeminate gay man, very young. but-he-adolescent,j but when he was an adolescent, he but when he was an adolescent, ne—ne— but when he was an adolescent, ne—ne must- but when he was an adolescent, ne—ne rnust tel but when he was an adolescent, he_he must be a| he was persuaded he must be a ttrt— he was persuaded he must be a ert—samp- he was persuaded he must be a. ttrt—eanp-ntw girl because he was camp and now he girl because he was camp and now ne-ne— girl because he was camp and now ne-ne nas— girl because he was camp and now ne-ne nas nt— girl because he was camp and now he he has no genitals he has. well, he has no genitals |rnean— he has. well, he has no genitals |rnean tnat-s— he has. well, he has no genitals .imean, that's the— he has. well, he has no genitals . mean, that's the that's the . i mean, that's the that's the prttten — . i mean, that's the that's the problem _stakes- . i mean, that's the that's the problem stakes are problem here. the stakes are very— problem here. the stakes are wew-wou- problem here. the stakes are very-you wtt- problem here. the stakes are very you will have very high. and you will have wtrtet— very high. and you will have wtrtet-a— very high. and you will have worked a number worked with a number of detransitioners. mean, detransitioners. i mean, the surgery— detransitioners. i mean, the surgery-stne- detransitioners. i mean, the surgery-some tt- detransitioners. i mean, the- surgery-some of-have surgery that some of them have hadr— surgery that some of them have tat—tt— surgery that some of them have tat—tt an- surgery that some of them have had,_it can ruin- had, i mean, it's it can ruin peapte-s— had, i mean, it's it can ruin people's lives. _ had, i mean, it's it can ruin people's lives. . : “g people's lives. it's devastating because you know, there's a comical aspect . and we can all comical aspect. and we can all look online it's kind of look online and it's kind of funny. then you actually look online and it's kind of funnythe then you actually look online and it's kind of funnythe people you actually look online and it's kind of funnythe people who ictually look online and it's kind of funnythe people who who lly look online and it's kind of funnythe people who who bought meet the people who who bought into could a into it that they could be a different person, they different person, that they could have could change their body and have a and nobody a different name and nobody would the old person. would refer to the old person. i remember one girl who was a detransitioners, so she medically at a young age. medically trans at a young age. she took puberty blockers, took

testosterone masculine testosterone and masculine face and masculinised her and masculine masculinised her face and her body. and she had a mastectomy. and i remember her saying, you know, i had a mastectomy . and before anybody mastectomy. and before anybody had ever touched my breasts in a loving way. and so it's kind of like she'd had no sexual experience us before. and now she had a mastectomy. so she never will have a loving. but people will be shocked- .. “3 but people will be shocked by the very— people will be shocked by the very ttea— people will be shocked by the wew ttea tnat— people will be shocked by the very idea that a— people will be shocked by the very idea that a mastectomy for a neattnw— very idea that a mastectomy for a neattnw early— very idea that a mastectomy for a healthy early adolescent tenate— a healthy early adolescent female, that— a healthy early adolescent female, that that's even going on. female, that that's even going tetpte— female, that that's even going on. people will— female, that that's even going on. people will be sceptical attut— on. people will be sceptical about that. _ on. people will be sceptical about that. yeah,- on. people will be sceptical about that. tv/tiuit“ .. on. people will be sceptical about that. / .. about that. yeah, people will be sceptical about it and it is happening . it's not happening happening. it's not happening under 18 in the uk, but they hit the ground running at 18 because there have been so intense and they have really an awful lot like we've talked about the gay and the lesbian. there are definitely a large proportion , definitely a large proportion, but lot of these kids have but a lot of these kids have autism and they have a very little understanding they little understanding and they genuinely this is going to genuinely think this is going to be the solution to all these unsettling feelings of alienation and hate in my body.

and feeling uncomfortable. i'm going to be a boy and i'll be i'll be better or i'll feel better. so it is a there's a harrowing stories of detransitioners and, you know, we had about 15 of them at the last conference in killarney. and, you know, there was a panel and they all said their stories. and you just realise, oh my god, it's people it's the most vulnerable people who getting caught who are getting caught up in this. absolutely. well, this. yeah, absolutely. well, joe, we don't have tv/tiuit“ .ti;.«r well, joe, we don't have much more tne.— joe, we don't have much more ttne. tut— joe, we don't have much more time, but could— joe, we don't have much more time, but could you perhaps tell us—an ttnt- time, but could you perhaps tell us_can find out- time, but could you perhaps telli us_can find out more us how people can find out more about— us how people can find out more about-spent.— us how people can find out more about-specht,-the- about jen specht, about the tntnt— about jen specht, about the tntnt tank.— about jen specht, about the think tank, and— about jen specht, about the think tank, and maybe your next atnetenee— think tank, and maybe your next| conference?_spac.org conference? right. jen spac.org , we've got all sorts of resources for parents and educators and people. we've got a program for transitioners. we subsidise psycho therapy. we have alternate programs for them. it's all on the website and our next conference is going to be in denver, colorado, in november. opposite the other w path conference at the same time and will likewise be bringing people together from politics and education and all different fields to present an alternative view. so no matter what w path

wants— view. so no matter what w path wants tnere — view. so no matter what w path wants, there will— view. so no matter what w path wants, there will be— . so no matter what w path wants, there will be a debate. it wants, there will be a debate. tt wtt— wants, there will be a debate. tt wttt te— wants, there will be a debate. tt wttt be a— wants, there will be a debate. it will be a debate. yeah. treettent— it will be a debate. yeah. excellent. well, stella and joe, tnant— excellent. well, stella and joe, tnant you— excellent. well, stella and joe, thank you both— excellent. well, stella and joe, thank you both so— excellent. well, stella and joe, thank you both so for thank you both so much for ratntnt— thank you both so much for. ratntnt—ttant thank you both so much for- tttntnt—ttant you joining me. thank you. thank you . stu— joining me. thank you. thank you . stttt stttt— joining me. thank you. thank you . still still to come on free speech nation speakers corner is meant to be a bastion of free speech. but this week, a melee prote— speech. but this week, a melee broke out— speech. but this week, a melee broke out when— speech. but this week, a melee broke out when one— i but this week, a melee broke out when one row got panteutartw— broke out when one row got particularly heated as speakers corner regular— particularly heated as speakers corner regular will be here to ten— corner regular will be here to tett us— corner regular will be here to tett us me— corner regular will be here to tell us more. see— corner regular will be here to tell us more. see you in a nnent— tell us more. see you in a nnent .—

tv, radio and online gb news. britain's news . tv, radio and online gb news. britain's news. channel tv, radio and online gb news. britain's news . channel welcome britain's news. channel welcome back to free speech nation. so later in the show i'm i i \rit.ti“ so later in the show i'm going to be later in the show i'm going to te turntnt— later in the show i'm going to be turning agony. _ later in the show i'm going to be turning agony. uncle with the netp— be turning agony. uncle with the netp tt— be turning agony. uncle with the netp eat my— be turning agony. uncle with the netp eat my panet— be turning agony. uncle with the help of my panel. diane spencer and help of my panel. diane spencer ant tet— help of my panel. diane spencer and leo kearse._ help of my panel. diane spencer and leo kearse. and we're going to netp— and leo kearse. and we're going to netp you— and leo kearse. and we're going to netp you-wttn— and leo kearse. and we're going to help you with your to help you deal with your unfiltered— to help you deal with your unfiltered _so. to help you deal with your unfiltered _so ifj unfiltered dilemmas. so if wt-wue— unfiltered dilemmas. so if y0'vue ett— unfiltered dilemmas. so if y0'vue got any— unfiltered dilemmas. so if you've got any problems whatsoever, _ you've got any problems whatsoever, drop us an whatsoever, just drop us an enatt— whatsoever, just drop us an email-views- whatsoever, just drop us an email-views gb- whatsoever, just drop us an email-views gb .uk email at gb views gb news .uk ant— email at gb views gb news .uk ant we— email at gb views gb news .uk and we _our best- email at gb views gb news .uk and we _our best to- and we will do our best to answer your problems. so speaker-s— answer your problems. so speaker's corner is the area in nwte— speaker's corner is the area in nwte tart.— speaker's corner is the area in hyde park, considered the oldest free hyde park, considered the oldest tree speattnt— hyde park, considered the oldest free speaking platform in the watt.— free speaking platform in the wtrtt. nawnt— free speaking platform in the world, having hosted decades of

speeenes— world, having hosted decades of speeenes-tne— world, having hosted decades of speeches _the mid - world, having hosted decades of speeches the mid 1800s. speeches since the mid 1800s. tut— speeches since the mid 1800s. tut tts— speeches since the mid 1800s. but its reputation— speeches since the mid 1800s. but its reputation as a safe nawen— but its reputation as a safe nawen ttr— but its reputation as a safe haven for free— but its reputation as a safe haven for free speech and optnttns— haven for free speech and tptnttns tt— haven for free speech and opinions of all— haven for free speech and opinions of all varieties came unter— opinions of all varieties came unter tnreat— opinions of all varieties came under threat this— opinions of all varieties came under threat this week when a neatet— under threat this week when a heated discussion— under threat this week when a heated discussion erupted into , heated discussion erupted into, wett— heated discussion erupted into, wett. an— heated discussion erupted into, well, an actual— heated discussion erupted into, well, an actual brawl and this retutret— well, an actual brawl and this retutret tne— well, an actual brawl and this required the police to be called . st— required the police to be called . to speakers— required the police to be called . so speakers corner regular stewe— . so speakers corner regular steve chilcott_ . so speakers corner regular steve chilcott was present at tne— steve chilcott was present at tne tne— steve chilcott was present at tne ttne ant— steve chilcott was present at the time and he— steve chilcott was present at the time and he joins me now. stewe— the time and he joins me now. steve welcome _ the time and he joins me now. steve welcome to— the time and he joins me now. steve welcome to the show. thank you . — steve welcome to the show. thank you . wetaane— steve welcome to the show. thank you . welcome back— steve welcome to the show. thank you . welcome back to- steve welcome to the show. thank you . you. welcome back to the show. you've been on the show a few times and course you've been times and of course you've been going corner an going to speakers corner for an awful time. longer than i awful long time. longer than i care-remember,— awful long time. longer than i care-remember, right?- .rit“g . longer than i care remember, right? it care to remember, right? so it means-teat- care to remember, right? so it means-deal to - care to remember, right? so it means deal to you. means a great deal to you. tttsotutety. — means a great deal to you. absolutely. yeah why don't you tell absolutely. yeah why don't you tett-nappenet- absolutely. yeah why don't you tell happened last tell us what happened last suntaye — tell us what happened last suntaye sa— tell us what happened last sunday? .. “ti “it.ri;.«t tell us what happened last sunday? so unfortunately, had sunday? so unfortunately, we had the quite vicious the return of some quite vicious violence weekend , last violence last weekend, last sunday, when one of the very regular christian preachers at the corner was very violent and aggressively attacked , started aggressively attacked, started with a shove. he ended up on the floor. fists were going , kicks floor. fists were going, kicks were going in his his christian preacher friends were attacked by a mob that landed upon them. when you say a mob, how many are we tatttnte — when you say a mob, how many are we tatttnte t— when you say a mob, how many are we talking? i mean,—

when you say a mob, how many are we talking? .“ti;”ti; when you say a mob, how many are we talking? “ .“ti.”ri; we talking? i mean, there was a melee going on. frankly, i would say there was 20 plus people . say there was 20 plus people. were the police there? there was no pause— were the police there? there was no police there at time that no police there at the time that it happened . and they it happened. and they were called. arrived five, ten called. they arrived five, ten minutes later and i have to say they were not interested id the aggressors were pointed out to them. they were identified and people were showing them videos of the attack on their phone. so they knew the individuals who were still standing there as bright in the park. bright as anything in the park. the not even approach the police did not even approach them didn't their them. they didn't take their names. they didn't take their identity. to identity. they didn't speak to them. point of them. so the whole point of speakers anyone can speakers corner is anyone can stand say anything they stand up and say anything they like, how like, irrespective of how controversial is. what was controversial it is. what was this christian _ controversial it is. what wasi this christian-saying this christian preacher saying tnat—upsetel this christian preacher saying- that_upset? they that caused so much upset? they were—wnetner- that caused so much upset? they| were _whether jesus were arguing about whetherjesus is were arguing about whetherjesus ts sot— were arguing about whetherjesus ts eot .— were arguing about whetherjesus ts eot . you— were arguing about whetherjesus is god , you know,— were arguing about whetherjesus is god , you know, so is god, you know, so a theological— is god, you know, so a theological ,- is god, you know, so a theological , typical theological theological, typical theological ttseusston— theological, typical theological discussion that— theological, typical theological discussion that goes in on week in, discussion that goes in on week p... weet— discussion that goes in on week p... week out— discussion that goes in on week in, week out at— discussion that goes in on week in, week out at speakers corner. watttna— in, week out at speakers corner. nothing contentious,— in, week out at speakers corner. nothing contentious, no- in, week out at speakers corner. nothing contentious, no .- in, week out at speakers corner. nothing contentious, no. you know, we know what more contentious things could have been said. there was nothing remotely contentious. so. so who

were these people?— remotely contentious. so. so who were these people? attack- i so. so who were these people? attack was it i so. so who wgroupzse people? attack was it i so. so who wgroup of people? attack was it i so. so who wgroup of militant attack was it i so. so who wgroup of militant atheistsvas it i so. so who wgroup of militant atheists or; it a group of militant atheists or sonetntnte— a group of militant atheists or sonetntnte — a group of militant atheists or something? or— a group of militant atheists or something? 0” it..t:t:“ titi7 a group of militant atheists or something? 0” it..titi“ titi7 a group of militant atheists or something? it..titi“ titi7 something? or buddhists? i think it might been buddhist. it might have been buddhist. no, no, they were no, they weren't. they were islamists. the guy, the main islamists. the one guy, the main protagonist of this attack, who i've since discovered is a lebanese born islamist sunni preacher who has said some pretty vile things. he said things like 911 was an insider plot. he said jews deserved the holocaust. it was god's retribution to them. he said, george bush and i'm a great fan of george bush, but he says george bush is a devil worshipping illuminati that deserved so he's a crazy man. he's an absolute crazy . we've he's an absolute crazy. we've not seen him at speaker's corner before, but clearly he came with a large crowd of people who ended up inflicting physical violence on people. would you say tnat— violence on people. would you say tnat tnts— violence on people. would you say that this man— violence on people. would you say that this man was- . i i“ would you say that this man was inciting the say that this man was inciting tne otters— say that this man was inciting the others to— say that this man was inciting the others to inflict this wotenee — the others to inflict this violence ? _ the others to inflict this violence ? some of there, violence? some of them there, i think, were probably his bodyguards, his security . they bodyguards, his security. they they big butch guys that they were big butch guys that were standing with him throughout his his his time at the corner . and they were very the corner. and they were very active violence. the active in the violence. the thing with

active in the violence. the thing .with speakers- iti. i“ . i the thing with speakers corner active in the violence. the. thing-with speakers corner , thing is with speakers corner, you— thing is with speakers corner, youe-en— thing is with speakers corner, youe-en tusttty- thing is with speakers corner, you even justify a man you would even justify a man ttte— you would even justify a man ttte tnat— you would even justify a man like that,lsort_ you would even justify a man like that,lsort of— you would even justify a man like that, sort of crazed like that, a sort of crazed tstantst— like that, a sort of crazed islamist preacher standing up ant— islamist preacher standing up ant saytnt— islamist preacher standing up and saying wants. yeah and saying what he wants. yeah exaetty. — and saying what he wants. yeah exactly. however— and saying what he wants. yeah exactly. . ti; ” .. and saying what he wants. yeah exactly. .. exactly. however unwholesome or unpleasant it might be. of course i would be the first person to say they have their right to come to speak as anyone has their right to come to speaker's corner, deny the holocaust, come out with whatever nonsense they whatever crazy nonsense they want. point is the want. the tipping point is the violence. tipping is violence. the tipping point is the and the feet. the fists and the. and the feet. so surely i mean, i would have tnoutnt— so surely i mean, i would have tnoutnt-pottee- so surely i mean, i would have thought police and from thought that the police and from my ttnttet— thought that the police and from my limited understanding of what goes— my limited understanding of what toes-potte— my limited understanding of what goes-police-meant- my limited understanding of what goes police meant to goes on, the police are meant to be goes on, the police are meant to te—aren-t- be there every week, aren't tneye—ant- be there every week, aren't they?_and they be there every week, aren't- they?_and they are so they? honestly? and they are so i was saying you a moment i was saying to you a moment ago, posey, parker, kelly j. ago, so posey, parker, kelly j. keen they had keen was there today. they had a completely gathering of completely peaceful gathering of the speak no trouble, the let women speak no trouble, a very large police a very, very large police presence. so the police pick and choose what they when they decide to enforce calm and well it's interesting because a couple of months ago when the let women speak group were in hyde park, the police were

nowhere to be seen . in fact, nowhere to be seen. in fact, graham linehan_ ”ti; i“ in fact, graham linehan filmed them watttnt— graham linehan filmed them watttng away.— graham linehan filmed them walking away. well, the walking away. well, when the wnen— walking away. well, when the wnen-wonen— walking away. well, when the when women were kettled in when the women were kettled in by ateresstwe— when the women were kettled in by aggressive men— when the women were kettled in by aggressive men in masks. wett— by aggressive men in masks. well, precisely— by aggressive men in masks. well, precisely . _ by aggressive men in masks. well, precisely . ”a by aggressive men in masks. well, precisely. riotig well, precisely. but every week, every month. so mainly they go there at the last sunday of every corner. every month to speakers corner. there's huge police there's been a huge police presence it's been very, presence and it's been very, very policed. so that very well policed. so has that been very well policed. so has that teen-tnere— very well policed. so has that been-there was- been because there was a taettasn— been because there was a backlash to _ been because there was a backlash to the- been because there was a backlash to the police negligence? �*ftt�*ti;.. backlash to the police- negligence? well, that's the precise word for it. it was negligent last sunday. it was negligent last sunday. it was negligent that when negligent at that time when graham videoed the police officers away . and graham videoed the police othink; away . and graham videoed the police othink there away . and graham videoed the police othink there wasiway . and graham videoed the police othink there was aay . and graham videoed the police othink there was a very, and graham videoed the police othink there was a very, very nd i think there was a very, very large understand large backlash that i understand went to the home office, went went to the home office, went went to the home secretary level. see, what i don't understand— see, what i don't understand about is level. see, what i don't- understand about-is when it understand about this is when it comes-religious- understand about this is when it comes religious question, comes to the religious question, wnen—ratteat- when it comes to radical tstantsn— islamism, i mean, we've seen a cnrtsttan— islamism, i mean, we've seen a christian preacher— islamism, i mean, we've seen a christian preacher stabbed in nyte— christian preacher stabbed in nyte-ant— christian preacher stabbed in nyte-ant t— christian preacher stabbed in hyde and i believe she was hyde park, and i believe she was arrestet. — hyde park, and i believe she was arrested. _precisely- hyde park, and i believe she was arrested. i i“ arrested. well, precisely hatun tash, has knocked tash, who has been knocked unconscious on one occasion, an who's stabbed in neck . who's been stabbed in the neck. on occasion, an was on a second occasion, an was herself arrested by the police . herself arrested by the police. she subsequently took them to court won and 10,000 compensation, £10,000 compensation, £10,000 compensation for wrongful arrest. so, again, they are very

quick to jump in and arrest certain perpetrators . well, just certain perpetrators. well, just to raise certain perpetrators. well, just to tne— certain perpetrators. well, just to raise the spectre— certain perpetrators. well, just to raise the spectre of- to raise the spectre of rotherham _ to raise the spectre of rotherham ,- to raise the spectre of rotherham , we know that we had rotherham, we know that we had tnese— rotherham, we know that we had tnese rapes— rotherham, we know that we had these rapes and— rotherham, we know that we had these rapes and sexual abuses going— these rapes and sexual abuses 90ing on— these rapes and sexual abuses going on teause— these rapes and sexual abuses going on because the police did not want— going on because the police did not want to— going on because the police did not want to arrest— going on because the police did not want to arrest a certain peopte— not want to arrest a certain peopte tron — not want to arrest a certain peopte tron a— not want to arrest a certain people from a certain community teause— people from a certain community teause tney— people from a certain community because they would be accused of tetnt— because they would be accused of tent—sane- because they would be accused of being—same thing. being racist. is the same thing nappentng— being racist. is the same thing happening tere— being racist. is the same thing happening here as in radical tstantst— happening here as in radical islamist-can- happening here as in radical islamist-can can. islamist preachers can can note— islamist preachers can can incite _violence. islamist preachers can can incite violence as islamist preachers can can- incite _violence as they incite as much violence as they want— incite as much violence as they want teause— incite as much violence as they want because they— incite as much violence as they want because they want to want because they don't want to be want because they don't want to tera—otsrn - want because they don't want to tera—otsrn tn- want because they don't want to be_racism. in my. be accused of racism. in my wew— be accused of racism. in my view, metropolitan police view, the metropolitan police force worst force are one of the worst culprits for the inconsistent application of the law. we've seen it with just stop oil. we saw it during lockdown where they treated different protest movements very, differently movements very, very differently . so i remember one sunday dunng . so i remember one sunday during the latter times of lockdown, you know, they they had vans. they they clamped down on anyone stopping momentarily. and speaking at speakers corner . yet at the very same moment across the road in marble arch there was a shia muslim gathering. and celebration. so at the very same point in time where they're clamping down on lockdown, they're not lockdown, they're they're not clamping area .

clamping down on another area. but there a problem when but is there a problem here when you-senatn— but is there a problem here when you certain speakers and you have certain speakers and peopte— you have certain speakers and peopte-eertatn- people who hold certain ideological— people who hold certain ideological beliefs where free speeon — ideological beliefs where free speech itself— ideological beliefs where free speech itself is— ideological beliefs where free speech itself is against their wauest— speech itself is against their wauest ant— speech itself is against their values and this— speech itself is against their values and this is the issue tnat— values and this is the issue that speakers— values and this is the issue that speakers corner, which we all that speakers corner, which we at know— that speakers corner, which we at tnow ant— that speakers corner, which we all know and respect , is the all know and respect, is the tone— all know and respect, is the tone ot— all know and respect, is the home of free— all know and respect, is the home of free speech in this country— home of free speech in this country ts— home of free speech in this country ts so— home of free speech in this country is so inconsistently potteet— country is so inconsistently potteet . — country is so inconsistently policed . �*ftt�* country is so inconsistently policed . �*ftt"“ti;”ti;ritti policed. whereas you know, christian preachers are arrested when they are the victims . yet when they are the victims. yet these thugs violent thugs, i mean, the old guy, the guy that i was referring to, the lebanese preacher, he had a crutch with him, which he was repeated bringing heads bringing down on people's heads . so that's assault. well, precisely . it wasn't just precisely. it wasn't just a thug, a push or whatever it was vicious, violent attacks . and vicious, violent attacks. and there's that guy and the police are shown videos of the crutch coming down on people's heads, and they don't even go and take his name. i mean, this is not right. well, you just need right. well well, you just need to apply— right. well well, you just need to appty tne— right. well well, you just need to appty tne taw— ” 3“. well well, you just need to apply the law irrespective of wno— to apply the law irrespective of wno ts— to apply the law irrespective of who is committing crime, who is committing the crime, teause— because surely this is very patrontstnt— because surely this is very patronising to— because surely this is very patronising to muslims to suggest—tt- patronising to muslims to. suggest—if there patronising to muslims to- suggest_if there are suggest that, well, if there are groups— suggest that, well, if there are groups wttntn— suggest that, well, if there are groups within that community treattnt— groups within that community breaking—shouldl breaking the law, you should

teawe— leave them alone. well, preetsety— leave them alone. well, preetsety-youl leave them alone. well, precisely _you what precisely because you know what we-re-atout— precisely because you know what we're - about here - precisely because you know what we're - about here at - we're talking about here at speaker-s— we're talking about here at speaker's corner is a vile group of speaker's corner is a vile group ot-tstantsts- speaker's corner is a vile group of-islamists. - speaker's corner is a vile group of-islamists. we'rel of extremist islamists. we're not— of extremist islamists. we're not tatttna— of extremist islamists. we're not talking about good, normal british muslims share the british muslims who share the same views as us about the, you know, the benefits of the culture that they live here. culture that they live in here. and are equally and quite frankly, are equally appalled by police's appalled by the police's behaviour. it's behaviour. well, because it's particularly bad for them because happens because you know, what happens is gift to certain far is this is a gift to certain far right groups who to paint right groups who want to paint muslims inherentlyviolent. muslims as inherently violent. quite. the quite. it's giving them the ammunition for their hate . ammunition for their hate. okay, look, steve, i'd okay, well, look, steve, i'd towe— okay, well, look, steve, i'd love _come keep love you to come back and keep us uptatet— love you to come back and keep us uptatet-tt- love you to come back and keep us updated it seems as us updated because it seems as tnoutn— us updated because it seems asj tnoutn—tntnt us updated because it seems asj tn suen—tntnt us updated because it seems asj th such an _think us updated because it seems as th such an important think us updated because it seems as th such an important place think is such an important place that we-preserwe— is such an important place that we-preserwe .— is such an important place that we-preserve . but- is such an important place that we preserve . but there's we need to preserve. but there's atways— we need to preserve. but there's always something— we need to preserve. but there's always something going on. . always something going on. it's always something going on. it's a—at— always something going on. it's a—at-wartt-s- a microcosm of the world's greater problems, frankly. absolutely. steve, thanks so must— absolutely. steve, thanks so nun—ne- absolutely. steve, thanks so- much—me-thank much for joining me today. thank you .— much for joining me today. thank you . wett— much for joining me today. thank you . wett stttt— much for joining me today. thank you . well still to— much for joining me today. thank you . well still to come on free you. well still to come on free speeon— you. well still to come on free speeen watton— you. well still to come on free speech nation as— you. well still to come on free speech nation as one of ernest nentngway-s— speech nation as one of ernest hemingway's greatest works is stappet— hemingway's greatest works is stappet wttn— hemingway's greatest works is stappet wttn a— hemingway's greatest works is slapped with a trigger warning . slapped with a trigger warning. were— slapped with a trigger warning. were gone— slapped with a trigger warning. were going to— slapped with a trigger warning. we're going to ask about the tnptteattons— we're going to ask about the implications for— we're going to ask about the implications for the publishing tntustry— implications for the publishing tntustry-tt— implications for the publishing industry-if such- implications for the publishing industry if such warnings industry and if such warnings are-justified.— industry and if such warnings are justified. don't go are ever justified. don't go away— are ever justified. don't go

away .—

pat cullen . welcome back to free pat cullen. welcome back to free speeon— pat cullen. welcome back to free speeen watton— pat cullen. welcome back to free speeen watton .— pat cullen. welcome back to free speech nation . the— pat cullen. welcome back to free speech nation . the work of the speech nation. the work of the treat— speech nation. the work of the great zetn — speech nation. the work of the great 20th century american autnor— great 20th century american author ernest— great 20th century american author ernest hemingway has been twen— author ernest hemingway has been eaten a— author ernest hemingway has been gtwen a wager— author ernest hemingway has been given a trigger warning due to concerns over his— given a trigger warning due to concerns over his language and attttutes— concerns over his language and attttutes .— concerns over his language and attitudes . the— concerns over his language and attitudes . the publishers attitudes. the publishers tentutn— attitudes. the publishers penguin house have reissued his nowest— penguin house have reissued his nowest ant— penguin house have reissued his novels and short— penguin house have reissued his novels and short stories with a eauttonary— novels and short stories with a cautionary note— novels and short stories with a cautionary note .— novels and short stories with a cautionary note . for example, cautionary note. for example, his cautionary note. for example, nts taous— cautionary note. for example, his famous debut— cautionary note. for example, his famous debut novel, the sun atso— his famous debut novel, the sun atso tttses— his famous debut novel, the sun also rises, has— his famous debut novel, the sun also rises, has a— his famous debut novel, the sun also rises, has a disclaimer now when— also rises, has a disclaimer now what says— also rises, has a disclaimer now which says publishers will not tne— which says publishers will not censor the book,— which says publishers will not censor the book, but nor do they entorse— censor the book, but nor do they entorse tne— censor the book, but nor do they endorse the content . these endorse the content. these warntnts— endorse the content. these warnings have— endorse the content. these warnings have major implications for warnings have major implications tor tne— warnings have major implications for the publishing— warnings have major implications for the publishing world and teyont— for the publishing world and teyont. ant— for the publishing world and beyond, and here to discuss wen.— beyond, and here to discuss tnen. ttn— beyond, and here to discuss them, i'm joined— beyond, and here to discuss them, i'm joined by the writer ant— them, i'm joined by the writer ant-tant- them, i'm joined by the writer and david oldroyd and historian david oldroyd tott— and historian david oldroyd tott. taut.— and historian david oldroyd bolt. david, welcome back. \tlif.l�*tit" bolt. david, welcome back. now, i bolt. david, welcome back. now, t tare— bolt. david, welcome back. now, t have to— bolt. david, welcome back. now, t have to te— bolt. david, welcome back. now, i have to be honest,— bolt. david, welcome back. now, i have to be honest, this is the latest in a long sequence of similar stories we've had warnings splashed on agatha christie, p.g. warnings splashed on agatha christie, pg. wodehouse, roald dahl christie, pg. wodehouse, roald dahl, now ernest hemingway. is

anyone safe? it seems a rather odd thing that a publisher should be expected to endorse the content of a novel after it is make believe. you know, nobody is going to expect that when you're reading chitty chitty think it's chitty bang bang, you think it's a that someone a really good idea that someone should a big cart should go around in a big cart collecting children. nobody's going expect. read going to expect. when you read charlie and the chocolate factory you it's factory that you think it's really great to punish children in ways dahl in the horrific ways that dahl describes. are works of describes. these are works of fantasy. and describes. these are works of fantasy . and you say that as fantasy. and you say that as tnoutn— fantasy. and you say that as tnoutn t— fantasy. and you say that as though i mean,— and you say that as though i mean, they should know this though i mean, they should know tnts worttnt— though i mean, they should know tnts worttnt tn— though i mean, they should know this working in the— though i mean, they should know this working in the publishing tntustry. — industry. what do they make of stepnen— industry. what do they make of stephen-mean,- industry. what do they make of stephen mean, they stephen king? i mean, do they entorse— stephen king? i mean, do they endorse-clowns?- stephen king? i mean, do they endorse clowns? mean, endorse killer clowns? i mean, do endorse killer clowns? i mean, to—run— endorse killer clowns? i mean, to—run ant- endorse killer clowns? i mean, do_run and hide. endorse killer clowns? i mean,| do_run and hide in do they have to run and hide in aeuptoart— do they have to run and hide in a euptoart ty— do they have to run and hide in a cupboard by any— do they have to run and hide in a cupboard by any means? i think it's a cupboard by any means? i think tt-s a— a cupboard by any means? i think tt-s a reatty— a cupboard by any means? i think tt-s a reatty att— a cupboard by any means? i think it's a really odd concept to that. something that. when you take something like rises, which like the sun also rises, which is 1926, is set just is written in 1926, is set just after the first world war and is about hemingway and friends. about hemingway and his friends. but within but it's very clearly set within a fictional realm there a fictional realm that there should need at a centuries should be a need at a centuries removed remind people that removed to remind people that this was written a century ago. yes. they have to do yes. i mean, all they have to do is the front and see is look at the front and see that it was written a long time ago. i think. people thought ago. i think. and people thought differently is this differently in the past. is this

bizarre everything bizarre idea that everything should rewritten make should be rewritten to make it relevant day and relevant to the current day and to strips away all of to me, that strips away all of the reading fiction. when the joy of reading fiction. when you clarissa from the you read, say, clarissa from the 18th century or you read the works of trollope from the 19th century, works century, or you read the works of wodehouse we mentioned of pg. wodehouse we mentioned from century, from the early 20th century, you do because you want do so in part because you want to know what it was to live in a different age. yes, even if in the of wodehouse, these are the case of wodehouse, these are highly fanciful ideas about a very narrow selection of that age. but you don't do it because you think that you're somehow going find a reflection of going to find a reflection of the it all the current age. but it all seems-arbitrary.- the current age. but it all seems-arbitrary. i- ri... ”ti“. 3 but it all seems arbitrary. i mean, the current age. but it all- seems.arbitrary. i mean, the seems so arbitrary. i mean, the autnors— seems so arbitrary. i mean, the autnors-tney— seems so arbitrary. i mean, the authors they choose. you authors that they choose. you nenttonet — mentioned clarissa, the richardson— richardson novel, but, you know, tnere-s— richardson novel, but, you know, tnere-slrape— richardson novel, but, you know, there'slrape and— richardson novel, but, you know, there's rape and dies in there's a rape and she dies in tnat— there's a rape and she dies in tnatltut— there's a rape and she dies in that.-but sorry— there's a rape and she dies in that.-but sorry to- there's a rape and she dies in that. but sorry to it that. but but sorry to spoil it put— that. but but sorry to spoil it put tut— that. but but sorry to spoil it but but there's— that. but but sorry to spoil it but but there's no warning on tnat— but but there's no warning on tnat as— but but there's no warning on tnat as yet. — but but there's no warning on that as yet. there's no warning on-tnose— that as yet. there's no warning on-those classics- that as yet. there's no warning on _those classics .- that as yet. there's no warning on those classics . but on some of those classics. but wnat— on some of those classics. but wnat ttn— on some of those classics. but wnat ttn saytne— on some of those classics. but what i'm saying is,— on some of those classics. but what i'm saying is, is that will tnat— what i'm saying is, is that will tnat no— what i'm saying is, is that will that now become— what i'm saying is, is that will that now become the norm, do you tntnte—tne- think? well, i think if the putttsntnt— think? well, i think if the publishing who does seem publishing staff who does seem nat— publishing staff who does seem we've had analogous cases, for nstane— we've had analogous cases, for tnstanee-wttet— we've had analogous cases, for instance, nigel biggar's instance, with nigel biggar's toot— instance, with nigel biggar's book colonialism , where the book on colonialism, where the ortttnat— book on colonialism, where the original publisher— book on colonialism, where the original publisher bloomsbury , original publisher bloomsbury, the original publisher bloomsbury, tne-went— original publisher bloomsbury, the-went mad— original publisher bloomsbury, the went mad about it, and the staff went mad about it, and so tt—

the staff went mad about it, and so tt nat— the staff went mad about it, and so tt nat to— the staff went mad about it, and so it had to be— the staff went mad about it, and so it had to be published by someone else. _ so it had to be published by someone else. it- so it had to be published by someone else. . . someone else. it seems that it's a it a publishing staff driving it rather the rather than necessarily the executives. start to executives. so they start to extend this weird fear and also control. i don't see why it shouldn't apply to the entire canon, but it's just it seems to me a very strange thing to enter an industry which is primarily about telling stories and then to try to control the way in which those stories have already been told. you know, we're not talking about contemporary works of fiction, and that's a rather different discussion . and i different discussion. and i think one that's for think one that's good for a future program. andrew we're talking things that talking about things that have been in been published for, in some cases centuries . so what do they cases centuries. so what do they expect to achieve ? is it am expect to achieve? is it am i being ean— expect to achieve? is it am i being ty— expect to achieve? is it am i being mean by maybe- i ii.“ ri;rri;7’ is it am i being mean by maybe suggesting that being mean by maybe suggesting tnat—nattntl that maybe the people making tnese—reat- these decisions don't read very nutte— these decisions don't read very nuene-you- these decisions don't read veryj nuene-you-tne much? because, you know, the tast— much? because, you know, the tact-tts— much? because, you know, the fact-it's almost- much? because, you know, the fact-it's almost as- much? because, you know, the fact it's almost as though fact that it's almost as though tney-we— fact that it's almost as though tney-we rust— fact that it's almost as though they've just across they've just come across hemingway— hemingway, hemingway, and tney-we— they've just realised, will they mate— they've just realised, will they make _andronicus- they've just realised, will they make andronicus what make of titus andronicus what wttt— make of titus andronicus what wttt-mate— make of titus andronicus what wttt-mate ot— make of titus andronicus what will make of ovid's will they make of ovid's metamorphosis? they'll have a neat— metamorphosis? they'll have a neat attaot— metamorphosis? they'll have a heart attack . _ metamorphosis? they'll have a heart attack . �*ftt�*ri;.. heart attack. well, i think they probably have never those probably have never read those things. if have, things. and if they have, they've misunderstood them. it's an thing. an extraordinarily odd thing. and we think it's 60 years, 61

years, in fact, since the trial of dh. lawrence's book, lady chatterley's lover, which was only published despite being written in 1928, it was only published in an unexpurgated form . in 1960, there was a trial form. in 1960, there was a trial . it was prosecuted. the publisher was prosecuted under the obscenity act of 1959, and then the judge , after taking then the judge, after taking evidence from people like ei then the judge, after taking evidence from people like e! m forster and many other literary luminaries, luminaries of the time said there is a clear work of artistic merit here that was the trial during which famously the trial during which famously the prosecuting counsel said, is this a book that you would wish your wife or your servants to read? we knew kind of read? so we knew what kind of viewpoints we were dealing with at yes. and so i'd at that time. yes. and so i'd have past have thought that for the past 60 we've had it as 60 years we've had it as a fairly well established fact that dislike the that even if you dislike the content of something, it should be to be published. be allowed to be published. and if it, you don't if you don't like it, you don't have read it retrospectively have to read it retrospectively to go back and to be trying to, as the case of ian fleming's as in the case of ian fleming's estate, the writer james bond estate, the writer of james bond themselves changing the themselves to be changing the language. i think is very language. yes. i think is a very

odd that is odd thing because that is a distortion . if you want if you distortion. if you want if you think it's really necessary, if you think your readers so you think your readers are so stupid that they can't understand books published understand that books published a time express a long time ago express different of view in different points of view in different points of view in different you different languages, if you really it's necessary , really think it's necessary, then fine, a little warning then fine, put a little warning on but to start rewriting, on it. but to start rewriting, as some authors estates are doing, think is a quite doing, i think is a really quite dangerous trend. i mean, it's tnteresttnt— dangerous trend. i mean, it's interesting the— ig ”ti“ri i mean, it's interesting the rewriting thing. ig ”ti“ti i mean, it's interestitherez rewriting thing. ig ”ti“ti i mean, it's interesti there wasiriting thing. ig ”ti“ti i mean, it's interesti there wasiri'backlash. ig ”ti“ti i mean, it's intere they ere wasiri'backlash. ig ”ti“ti i mean, it's intere they were asiri'backlash. ig ”ti“ti i mean, it's interethey were startingklash. when they were starting to rewrtttnt — when they were starting to. rewriting _yes. when they were starting to- rewriting _yes. the rewriting pg wodehouse. yes. the very— rewriting pg wodehouse. yes. the very-tnese— rewriting pg wodehouse. yes. the very-tnese are— rewriting pg wodehouse. yes. the very these are these very idea that these are these son— very idea that these are these sort ot— very idea that these are these sort ot zo— very idea that these are these sort ot to year— very idea that these are these sort of 20 year old activists pretenttnt— sort of 20 year old activists pretenttne to— sort of 20 year old activists pretending to publishers can pretending to be publishers can wrtte—woutt- pretending to be publishers can write _would-is| write better than would have is nttartous— write better than would have is hilarious-begin— write better than would have is hilarious begin with. but but hilarious to begin with. but but tnen— hilarious to begin with. but but tnen-a— hilarious to begin with. but but then-a difference- then there's a difference between— then there's a difference between putting between that and maybe putting a warntnt— between that and maybe putting a warntnet-e— between that and maybe putting a warning even warning warning on. but even the warning trouttes— warning on. but even the warning troubles-because— troubles me because the tnptteate— troubles me because the implicate person behind it is tnat— implicate person behind it is tnat tnese— implicate person behind it is that these books are sort of potenttatty— that these books are sort of potentially dangerous and that tney— potentially dangerous and that tney nave— potentially dangerous and that tney nawe to— potentially dangerous and that they have to kind of paternalistically after the paternalistically look after the putts.— paternalistically look after the putts-tnat-s— paternalistically look after the public, that's their job. public, that that's their job. tts— public, that that's their job. tt-s not— public, that that's their job. it's not their— public, that that's their job. it's not their job. well, that's tnat— it's not their job. well, that's tnat tn— it's not their job. well, that's that in itself— it's not their job. well, that's that in itself is,— it's not their job. well, that's that in itself is, i— it's not their job. well, that's that in itself is, i think, a ratner— that in itself is, i think, a rate ott— that in itself is, i think, a rather old fashioned and rather old fashioned idea. and it's rather old fashioned idea. and nts—tney- rather old fashioned idea. and it's—they should. rather old fashioned idea. andi it's—they should be it's curious that they should be existing together. now. wonder existing together. now. i wonder if would, instance, re if they would, for instance, re or reinstatement or support the reinstatement of the chamberlain the role of the lord chamberlain who 1737 and 1968 had

who between 1737 and 1968 had the power to censor any play on the power to censor any play on the british stage for content in case somehow offended someone case it somehow offended someone or or or was obscene or was blasphemous. i mean, does blasphemous. i mean, it does seem moving seem that we are moving backwards in our ability to appreciate a variety of artistic expression . it seems that we're expression. it seems that we're moving towards , again, a time moving towards, again, a time when people can control the thoughts of others because they think it's good for them and who is who is saying that these people have the right? why not you your viewers? yes. you or i or your viewers? yes. how is it that these people, this self selecting guardianship , they , have decided that only they are pure and are morally pure and intellectually strong enough to decide who reads what? and isn't it decide who reads what? and isn't tt tasetnattnt— decide who reads what? and isn't it fascinating because— titiri. titi i 7 and isn't it fascinating because they woutt— it fascinating because they would consider— it fascinating because they would consider themselves to be progresstwese— would consider themselves to be progressives? they're progressives? yes, but they're tenawtnt — progressives? yes, but they're behaving like _ progressives? yes, but they're behaving like the star chamber or—see- behaving like the star chamber. or—seen-tne or something. they seem like the old or something. they seem like the ott—peart- old fashioned stuffy pearl etuteners— old fashioned stuffy pearl clutchers yesteryear, clutchers from yesteryear, the ones_ lawrence| ones who took d.h. lawrence to tnat— ones who took dh. lawrence to trtat-t— ones who took dh. lawrence to trtat-t-say- ones who took d.h. lawrence to trtat-t-say tt- ones who took dh. lawrence to trial.-i-say it hasi trial. well, i would say it has historical references and resonances with other things like, say, the inquisition , like, say, the inquisition, which people remember the spanish inquisition because of monty in fact, it monty python. but in fact, it went on for hundreds of years and today there is a list and still today there is a list of books that the vatican has

banned. it's proscribed that they're not being burnt anymore, but and we've seen in many regimes throughout history that once ideas and control, once there an idea that some there is an idea that some things dangerous as ideas things are so dangerous as ideas that they can no longer be read , you to go down a very , you start to go down a very difficult about free difficult path about free expression itself and what concerns here they're concerns me here is that they're beginning they're beginning with language. they're beginning with language. they're beginning those particular beginning with those particular touch of today's touch points of today's language, race and class . and i language, race and class. and i just don't think that there's a possibility of it ending there. and this another and i think this is another instance slippery instance where the slippery slope is not a logical fallacy . slope is not a logical fallacy. it's a very clear indication. and seen this in so many and we've seen this in so many instances recently, once control is exerted over language, which is exerted over language, which is a principle method we have of expressing our ideas, those ideas become ideas themselves become circumscribed and indeed proscribed. david alright, paul, thanks ever so much joining thanks ever so much for joining me. greatly it. me. greatly appreciate it. okay.— me. greatly appreciate it. okay. ttats— me. greatly appreciate it. okay, that's the— me. greatly appreciate it. okay, that's the end of our first hour on free speech nation. but there is much more to sonne— nation. but there is much more to come, including— \r but there is much more to come, including discussion of the to come, including discussion of tne wtntrusn— to come, including discussion of the windrush generation , the the windrush generation, the trtsn — the windrush generation, the trtsn tate— the windrush generation, the irish hate crime— the windrush generation, the irish hate crime bill and more

tuesttons— irish hate crime bill and more questions from _ irish hate crime bill and more questions from our brilliant stutto— questions from our brilliant studio audience— questions from our brilliant studio audience .

there's plenty more still to come on free— there's plenty more still to come on free speech nation this ewentnp— come on free speech nation this evening, including— come on free speech nation this evening, including a discussion about— evening, including a discussion about tne— evening, including a discussion about the enduring significance of about the enduring significance ot tne— about the enduring significance of the windrush _ about the enduring significance of the windrush generation anatysts— of the windrush generation anatysts ot— of the windrush generation analysis of the— of the windrush generation analysis of the irish hate crime ttt— analysis of the irish hate crime tttt ant— analysis of the irish hate crime bill and more— analysis of the irish hate crime bill and more questions from our twe— bill and more questions from our ttwe stutto— bill and more questions from our live studio audience. but let's get a— live studio audience. but let's get a news— live studio audience. but let's get a news update first from aaron— get a news update first from aaron armstrong _ get a news update first from aaron armstrong . thank you very aaron armstrong. thank you very nuan— aaron armstrong. thank you very nuen . — aaron armstrong. thank you very nuen . wes.— aaron armstrong. thank you very nuen . wes. goat— aaron armstrong. thank you very much . tv/ri;ti d i“ “t: aaron armstrong. thank you very much . v/riti d i“ “t: much. yes, good evening to you from the gb news room. the us believes yesterday's armed rebellion will weaken vladimir putin's government and the russian war effort. the leader of the wagner group, yevgeny prigozhin, will be exiled to belarus and stripped of control

of the mercenary fighters after his short lived mutiny ended last night. but the us secretary of state , antony blinken, says of state, antony blinken, says the unprecedented challenge to putin's leadership has exposed fresh cracks that may take months to play out. but they could aid ukraine. s counter—offensive against russia . to the extent this presents a ttstraetton— . to the extent this presents a ttstraetton .— . to the extent this presents a distraction , a— . to the extent this presents a distraction , a loss— to the extent this presents a distraction , a loss of focus for distraction, a loss of focus for tne— distraction, a loss of focus for the russians,— distraction, a loss of focus for the russians, that— distraction, a loss of focus for the russians, that may help the utratntans— the russians, that may help the ukrainians on— the russians, that may help the ukrainians on the— the russians, that may help the ukrainians on the battlefield . ukrainians on the battlefield. toasty— ukrainians on the battlefield. exactly where _ ukrainians on the battlefield. exactly where this goes , we exactly where this goes, we ton-t— exactly where this goes, we ton-t tnow. — exactly where this goes, we don't know. but— exactly where this goes, we don't know. but what we do know is don't know. but what we do know ts tnat— don't know. but what we do know ts tnat wewe— don't know. but what we do know is that we've seen— don't know. but what we do know is that we've seen real cracks eerte— is that we've seen real cracks eerte .— is that we've seen real cracks enereg . agatn— is that we've seen real cracks enereg . againr a— is that we've seen real cracks emerge . again, a direct emerge. again, a direct enattente— emerge. again, a direct challenge to- emerge. again, a direct challenge to putin's authority . challenge to putin's authority. a t— challenge to putin's authority. a to year— challenge to putin's authority. a re year att— challenge to putin's authority. a 15 year old girl— challenge to putin's authority. a 15 year old girl has- challenge to putin's authority. a 15 year old girl has died after being pulled from the sea at cleethorpes beach in lincolnshire. a 15 year old boy who was also airlifted to hospital has since been discharged . aged separately. discharged. aged separately. a five year old boy has died after falling from a harbour wall in the cornish town of padstow. police are treating both incidents as accidental. the duchess of york is recuperating

following a successful operation to treat breast cancer. sarah ferguson was recently diagnosed with an early form of cancer following a routine mammogram having been symptom free. she was released from hospital earlier and is recovering with her family in windsor and one of the longest farewell tours in history will finally come to a close tonight in the uk. at least seven elton john will headune least seven elton john will headline the pyramid stage at glastonbury later. it will be the first time he's played the festival and his final uk gig and almost the end of a five year long farewell tour. he's just got zurich to go after this. now the performance will feature as yet unannounced surprise guests and some superfans have been queuing up since 4 am. for a front row spaces turned out three hours after these guys. i was here at 7 am. after these guys. i was here at a t— after these guys. i was here at a t was— after these guys. i was here at 7 am. i was third— after these guys. i was here at 7 am. i was third in- after these guys. i was here at 7 am. i was third in the- g-i i was here at 7 am. i was third in the queue. 7 a.m. i was third in the queue. ant— 7 a.m. i was third in the queue. ant you— 7 am. i was third in the queue. ant you aant— 7 a.m. i was third in the queue. and you can't miss— 7 am. i was third in the queue. and you can't miss elton john tast— and you can't miss elton john tast eer— and you can't miss elton john tast ut— and you can't miss elton john last ever uk gig.— and you can't miss elton john last ever uk gig. bastien. bri, wnat— last ever uk gig. bastien. bri, wnat a— last ever uk gig. bastien. bri, wnat a tay. — last ever uk gig. bastien. bri, what a day. look,- last ever uk gig. bastien. bri, what a day. look, i- last ever uk gig. bastien. bri, what a day. “ti what a day. look, i kind of kept the tickets initially, but just

for like elton , so i figured for like elton, so i figured like, this is such a once in a lifetime chance that i can sleep any other day. but like, front row, glastonbury, last uk concert, that's probably going to be like a once in a lifetime chance. to be like a once in a lifetime chance . and it has been almost chance. and it has been almost perfect glastonbury weather, hasn't it? but the perfect glastonbury weather, hasn't it ? but the met office is hasn't it? but the met office is warntnt— hasn't it? but the met office is warning peopte— hasn't it? but the met office is warning people to— . .7’ but the met office is warning people to enjoy the heat responsttty— warning people to enjoy the heat responsttty .— warning people to enjoy the heat responsibly . it's— warning people to enjoy the heat responsibly . it's after the responsibly. it's after the forecaster— responsibly. it's after the forecaster recorded the joint nottest— forecaster recorded the joint hottest temperature of the year eartter. — hottest temperature of the year eartter. m— hottest temperature of the year earlier, 32.2 degrees in contnesty— earlier, 32.2 degrees in coningsby in- earlier, 32.2 degrees in coningsby in lincolnshire, etuatttnt— coningsby in lincolnshire, equalling the— coningsby in lincolnshire, equalling the figure in surrey eartter— equalling the figure in surrey earlier this— equalling the figure in surrey earlier this month. a thunderstorm and heavy showers, ttoutt— thunderstorm and heavy showers, tnoutn. are— thunderstorm and heavy showers, though, are expected for some pans— though, are expected for some parts ot— though, are expected for some pans ot tne— though, are expected for some parts of the country later . tv parts of the country later. tv onttne— parts of the country later. tv onttne on— parts of the country later. tv online on dab— parts of the country later. tv online on dab and tune in radio. tnts— online on dab and tune in radio. tnts ts— online on dab and tune in radio. tnts ts et— online on dab and tune in radio. this is gb news.— online on dab and tune in radio. this is gb news. now it's back to antrew— this is gb news. now it's back to andrew and— this is gb news. now it's back to andrew and free speech nation

-- welcome back to free speech watton. — welcome back to free speech nation. with— welcome back to free speech nation. with me— welcome back to free speech nation. ' “ti welcome back to free speech nation. i t nation. with me andrew doyle. let's get some more questions from our lovely studio audience. our first question from ivan. our first question is from ivan. where's ivan? hi. hi good men at work where's ivan? hi. hi good men at wort sttns— where's ivan? hi. hi good men at work signs cause— where's ivan? hi. hi good men at work signs cause offence- �*titt�*“ti”ri; 7 good men at work signs cause offence . �*titt“ri”ri; 7 good men at work signs cause offence . [its/sci; work signs cause offence. okay, so tnts— work signs cause offence. okay, so ttts ts— work signs cause offence. okay, so this is south—west water. they've been criticised after ordering a review following a complaint about this men at work sign. and apparently it's a reminder of the constant undervaluing of women in de—man. i'm going to come to you as a as one of the two women on the panel one of the two women on the panel. you you would are you offended by the sign men at work? do you know what? i'm confused because it says- confused because it says to me tnat— confused because it says to me tnat tnts— confused because it says to me that this director— confused because it says to me that this director who spotted it that this director who spotted tt toesn-t— that this director who spotted it doesn't have— that this director who spotted it doesn't have access to a ttaet— it doesn't have access to a black sharpie— it doesn't have access to a black sharpie ,_ it doesn't have access to a black sharpie , because if he black sharpie, because if he reatty— black sharpie, because if he reatty tett— black sharpie, because if he really felt that— black sharpie, because if he really felt that strongly about it, really felt that strongly about tt. rust— really felt that strongly about t. tust run— really felt that strongly about t. tust up— really felt that strongly about it, just run up to— really felt that strongly about it, just run up to the sign with atett— it, just run up to the sign with atett ttp— it, just run up to the sign with a tett ttp ant— it, just run up to the sign with a felt tip and just— it, just run up to the sign with a felt tip and just doodle on it ant— a felt tip and just doodle on it ant put— a felt tip and just doodle on it ant put ant— a felt tip and just doodle on it and put and women. yeah but wasnt— and put and women. yeah but wasnt tt— and put and women. yeah but wasnt tt rust— and put and women. yeah but wasn't it just men— and put and women. yeah but wasn't it just men though . well, wasn't it just men though. well, i wasn't it just men though. well, t ton-t— wasn't it just men though. well, t ton-t know.— wasn't it just men though. well, i don't know. wasn't there right but i don't know. wasn't there right tut t— i don't know. wasn't there right tut t tntnt— i don't know. wasn't there right but i think they've got more tnponant— but i think they've got more important things to do than worry— important things to do than worry-sten- important things to do than worry-stan .- important things to do than worry sign . like important things to do than- worry-sign . like we're worry about the sign. like we're tunptnt— worry about the sign. like we're tunptne-sewate— worry about the sign. like we're dumping sewage into the sea.

dumping raw sewage into the sea. i if dumping raw sewage into the sea. t-tt tnts— dumping raw sewage into the sea. t-tt tnts ts— dumping raw sewage into the sea. i-if this is the— dumping raw sewage into the sea. i-if this is the water,- i think if this is the water, eornantpes— i think if this is the water, companies could we fix that? tnts— companies could we fix that? tnts ts— companies could we fix that? tnts ts an— companies could we fix that? this is an interesting one, that men are disproportionately representet— men are disproportionately represented in— men are disproportionately represented in manual labour wort.— represented in manual labour worn-tneye - represented in manual labour work,-they? .so. represented in manual labour. work,-they? .so more work, aren't they? and so more often than not, it is just men at work. yeah why aren't feminists more to sort of feminists doing more to sort of make that more 50, 50? well, break the sewer ceiling . yeah, break the sewer ceiling. yeah, yeah. get more women- . “t: yeah, yeah. get more women into the sewers and on the— yeah. get more women into the sewers and on the oil rigs . i sewers and on the oil rigs. i ton-t— sewers and on the oil rigs. i ton-t tnow. — sewers and on the oil rigs. i don't know. for— sewers and on the oil rigs. i don't know. for some reason the tentntsts— don't know. for some reason the tentntsts rust— don't know. for some reason the feminists just seem— don't know. for some reason the feminists just seem to want the ne— feminists just seem to want the ntee-atout— feminists just seem to want the nice - about being - feminists just seem to want the nice -about being a - feminists just seem to want the nice about being a man. i nice stuff about being a man. i aant— nice stuff about being a man. i cant t— nice stuff about being a man. i cant t aant— nice stuff about being a man. i can't. i can't work— nice stuff about being a man. i can't. i can't work it out. i neanltntnt— can't. i can't work it out. i mean,ithink the- can't. i can't work it out. i mean, think the most offensive mean, i think the most offensive tntnt— mean, i think the most offensive the about— mean, i think the most offensive thing about this— mean, i think the most offensive thing about this sign is for some-ot— thing about this sign is for some .of public- thing about this sign is for some of public sector some sort of public sector tuanto— some sort of public sector quango organisation, whatever. ant— quango organisation, whatever. ant-twen— quango organisation, whatever. ant-wen at— quango organisation, whatever. and-men at work,- quango organisation, whatever. and men at work, i'm and it says men at work, i'm wttttnt— and it says men at work, i'm wttttnt to— and it says men at work, i'm willing to bet— and it says men at work, i'm willing to bet they weren't totnt— willing to bet they weren't tone-tney- willing to bet they weren't doing they were doing any work. they were sttttnt— doing any work. they were sitting drinking some the sitting drinking some tea at the tast— sitting drinking some tea at the task. — sitting drinking some tea at the flask . there's— sitting drinking some tea at the flask . there's going- sitting drinking some tea at the flask . tigrir “rig sitting drinking some tea at the flask . tigtir “rig ” flask. there's going to be four of them smoking one them of them smoking and one of them will doing something will actually be doing something with four dudes going, he's doing my goodness doing that wrong. oh my goodness me. doing that wrong. oh my goodness _tol me. okay, right. we're going to get anotner— me. okay, right. we're going to get another question now. this oneon—- one is from catherine on. hi, catnertne.— one is from catherine on. hi, catherine. hi— one is from catherine on. hi, catherine. hi _ one is from catherine on. hi, catherine. hi i catherine. hi should miss england bring back the swimwear parade ? oh, okay. so this is parade? oh, okay. so this is anotner— parade? oh, okay. so this is another potentially- i7 0“ so this is another potentially interesting

one another potentially interesting reearttnt— another potentially interesting one regarding feminism. diane, i'm one regarding feminism. diane, ttn aotnt— one regarding feminism. diane, ttn going to— one regarding feminism. diane, i'm going to come to you. this tne— i'm going to come to you. this was the swimwear— i'm going to come to you. this was the swimwear parade miss was the swimwear parade for miss tnttant— was the swimwear parade for miss tnetantlteauty— was the swimwear parade for miss england, beauty pageant. england, the beauty pageant. tasteatty—tt- england, the beauty pageant. basically,_it in. basically, they dropped it in zoos.— basically, they dropped it in zoos-tnwe- basically, they dropped it in 2009, they're thinking 2009, and now they're thinking of 2009, and now they're thinking ot—taet. — 2009, and now they're thinking ot—taet. ts- 2009, and now they're thinking ot—taet. ts tt- of bringing it back. is it sextst— of bringing it back. is it sexist, diane- of bringing it back. is it sexist, diane ? \ri.r of bringing it back. is it sexist, diane ? \rrir of bringing it back. is it sexist, diane ? \rtir of bringing it back. is it- sexist, diane ? no , no, not in of bringing it back. is it— sexist, diane ? no , no, not in my sexist, diane? no, no, not in my opinion , because women , the opinion, because women, the women who want to do this , it's women who want to do this, it's actually the contestants who want to bring back the swimwear round because there's lots of different rounds involved in miss you just miss england. you don't just turn and sort of go, am i the turn up and sort of go, am i the prettiest brainless bimbo here? no, actually won by no, it's actually been won by doctor . it's currently doctor before. it's currently missing. and i think it's held by an engineering aerospace student. so it's more like the krypton factor. oh, yeah, tettnttety— krypton factor. oh, yeah, tettnttety .— krypton factor. oh, yeah, definitely . you- it.ri“ i oh, yeah, definitely . you need very definitely. you need very intellectual— definitely. you need very intellectual ,_ definitely. you need very intellectual , very, very kind. intellectual, very, very kind. tnere-s— intellectual, very, very kind. there's even— intellectual, very, very kind. there's even a— intellectual, very, very kind. there's even a sports round, antrew— there's even a sports round, antrew. — there's even a sports round, antrew. t— there's even a sports round, andrew. i mean,- there's even a sports round, andrew. i mean, i- there's even a sports round, andrew. “ andrew. i mean, i think. but isn't it right. so the argument woutt— isn't it right. so the argument woutt toe.— isn't it right. so the argument would be, though,— . . 3tig“ so the argument would be, though, that . . 3tig“. so the argument would be, though, that this is teerattnt— would be, though, that this is degrading to— would be, though, that this is degrading to women because you-re— degrading to women because youereworn—n l you're objectifying women. toure— you're objectifying women.l you're—should you're objectifying women.- you're_should be you're saying that we should be watutnt— you're saying that we should be watutng-tutttnt— you're saying that we should be valuing judging people to valuing and judging people to aeoorttnt— valuing and judging people to according their— valuing and judging people to according their looks. �*titt�*ri according their looks. we always watue— according their looks. we always value according value and judge people according to . that happens to to their looks. that happens to you matter whether are you no matter whether you are ugly, whether are pretty,

ugly, whether you are pretty, you going to judged. the you are going to be judged. the second eyes on you second anybody lays eyes on you and you know what? those women were get into the were hard to get into the position they are. it doesn't just happen. they don't just magically turn up with abs and a beautiful walk and they have amazing hair and makeup. it takes hours of training, calorie counting diets, gyms. so you have no sympathy for the view of activists that say this is basically pulling women down. you know what? i have spoken a lot to a lot of grid girls because my husband loves motorsport and now i've got into it and a lot of grid girls were removed from the grid. yes, i remember this. oh, god, they were upset. and they said, why income? they me, my income? they said to me, my income? they said to me, my income has just been trashed by people who don't even come to motorsport. yeah. by people who never watch. and it's the same thing. people who don't watch miss world are saying, oh, you can't these people parading can't have these people parading around bikinis. shut up. around in bikinis. oh, shut up. do know it is? no. do you know what it is? no. i get it. i get it. julie bindel and these activists who want to

have the bikini round, they actually have a lot in common. they just want women to have the chance to be regarded in a meritocratic sense and not as the shadow of a man. they want a woman to be able to be assessed out for who she is and to be an individual and that takes many different forms and that is what feminism is about. but the problem is, is that these two feminists are clashing with the best way of trying to realise what is the best way to be yourself. is there a class issue teree— yourself. is there a class issue teree teeaue— yourself. is there a class issue here? because i— is there a class issue here? because i remember when you—tne— here? because i remember when you—tne-ttrtsl you mentioned the grid girls, i renenterltv— you mentioned the grid girls, i remember tv interview where remember a tv interview where were— remember a tv interview where tnere-a— remember a tv interview where tnere-a very— remember a tv interview where there-a very posh- remember a tv interview where there a very posh feminist there was a very posh feminist terattnt— there was a very posh feminist terattnt a— there was a very posh feminist berating a working class grid ttrt—ton-t- berating a working class grid girl—don't know. girl saying you don't know wnat-s— girl saying you don't know wnat-s-tor— girl saying you don't know what's-for you. - girl saying you don't know what's for you. yeah, and what's best for you. yeah, and it what's best for you. yeah, and tt—a- what's best for you. yeah, and tt—a ttt- it did strike. i was a bit uncomfortable, although i sort of uncomfortable, although i sort ot—tne— uncomfortable, although i sort of_the argument.i of understood the argument. i was uncomfortable with the way she was uncomfortable with the way sne was— was uncomfortable with the way sne was-tnts- was uncomfortable with the way she was-this, this,- she was treating this, this, tnts— she was treating this, this, this-woman. - this other woman. yeah, absolutely. _ this other woman. yeah,- absolutely. _course, that this other woman. yeah,- absolwoman-course, that this other woman. yeah,- absolwoman wouldlcourse, that this other woman. yeah,- absolwoman would havese, that this other woman. yeah,- absolwoman would have hadiat posh woman would have had far more , liz, in her more opportunity, liz, in her life time, life to have had the time, resources get an education resources to get an education and whatever career and move into whatever career she whereas if you're she wanted. whereas if you're working class you don't

working class as i am, you don't really have much option but to get clothes off at darts get your clothes off at a darts match. yeah that's why you would. that's excuse anyway would. that's your excuse anyway . - ttwe— would. that's your excuse anyway . - he got— would. that's your excuse anyway . _t-weaatta— would. that's your excuse anyway . i've got to disagree . yeah, i've got to disagree with diane like. like most women, she doesn't really know what she wants. she's. she's talking . she. it's okay. talking crazy. she. it's okay. before they come to blows, let's move on to another— before they come to blows, let's move on to another question. tnts— move on to another question. tnts one— move on to another question. tnts ts— move on to another question. this one is from _ move on to another question. this one is from sandra . where's this one is from sandra. where's santrae— this one is from sandra. where's sandra?.sandra_ this one is from sandra. where's sandra?.sandra .— this one is from sandra. where's sandra? sandra . hi. iigt sandra? hi, sandra. hi. my auesttan— sandra? hi, sandra. hi. my auesttan ts— sandra? hi, sandra. hi. my auesttan ts .— sandra? hi, sandra. hi. my question is , i've- sandra? hi, sandra. hi. my question is , i've forgotten now question is, i've forgotten now . the last time sandra . oh, . the last time sandra. oh, sandra, it it will come- . i oh, sandra, it it will come to you if sandra, it it will come to you t you— sandra, it it will come to you t you rust— sandra, it it will come to you if you just think— sandra, it it will come to you if you just think about it. tiirit“ if you just think about it. can tett— if you just think about it. can tott peapte— if you just think about it. can tott peapte te— if you just think about it. can lgbt people be compared to people to slaves seeking freedom? yeah. okay. so this story— freedom? yeah. okay. so this story t— freedom? yeah. okay. so this story t was— i 7 yeah. okay. so this story i was astonished by i ton-t— story i was astonished by i ton-t know— story i was astonished by i don't know if— story i was astonished by i don't know if you've read this story.— don't know if you've read this story. so— don't know if you've read this story. so tnts— don't know if you've read this story. so this was— don't know if you've read this story. so this was this american reat— story. so this was this american reat estate— story. so this was this american real estate broker— story. so this was this american real estate broker called bob ttecrante— real estate broker called bob mccranie and— real estate broker called bob mccranie and he— real estate broker called bob mccranie and he put out this atwet— mccranie and he put out this atwert. you— mccranie and he put out this advert, you know— mccranie and he put out this advert, you know how basically tney-re— advert, you know how basically tneytre saytng— advert, you know how basically they're saying that lgbtq rights are under threat— they're saying that lgbtq rights are under threat in republican states— are under threat in republican states ant— are under threat in republican states and he's— are under threat in republican states and he's this realtor and nets— states and he's this realtor and ne-s tasteatty— states and he's this realtor and he's basically saying to gay peopte— he's basically saying to gay peopte. toot— he's basically saying to gay peopte. toot .— he's basically saying to gay people, look , if— he's basically saying to gay people, look , if i can get you

people, look, if i can get you outt— people, look, if i can get you out. t— people, look, if i can get you out. t an— people, look, if i can get you out. t t— people, look, if i can get you out, i can i can— people, look, if i can get you out, i can i can get you to a democrat— out, i can i can get you to a democrat state. _ out, i can i can get you to a democrat state. but he called it he democrat state. but he called it ne oattet— democrat state. but he called it ne eattet tt— democrat state. but he called it ne eattet tt a— democrat state. but he called it he called it a rainbow underground- he called it a rainbow underground railroad. now the untergrount— underground railroad. now the underground railroad, of course, was underground railroad, of course, atout— underground railroad, of course, about not— underground railroad, of course, was about not helping slaves to esape— was about not helping slaves to esape .— was about not helping slaves to esape . t— was about not helping slaves to esape . t rnean— was about not helping slaves to escape . i mean, it's so escape. i mean, it's so tnapproprtate- escape. i mean, it's so inappropriate , isn't it? i mean, inappropriate, isn't it? i mean, teyont— inappropriate, isn't it? i mean, beyond inappropriate is slightly ntntntstnt— beyond inappropriate is slightly minimising the— beyond inappropriate is slightly minimising the plight that peopte— minimising the plight that peopte went— minimising the plight that people went through under stawery. — people went through under stawery. ttts— people went through under slavery. . gilt?“ “ . slavery. it's yeah, i mean, it's disgusting. i mean, for a start, the underground railroad was not conducted on floats in sparkly hotpants. it wasn't so yeah, there's a few differences. and also, i mean there are i mean, they call it restrictions on lgbtq rights in certain states . lgbtq rights in certain states. if you look more closely, it's like , oh, you're not allowed to like, oh, you're not allowed to have in school libraries, you know, laws like that. and it's like, well, that's actually a good idea. i think most people , good idea. i think most people, most gay people would would agree that. and agree with that. and i mean, tnese— agree with that. and i mean, tnese peopte— agree with that. and i mean,| these people,_who agree with that. and i mean,- these people,_who did these people, the people who did these people, the people who did tne—to- these people, the people who did tne—to netp the underground railroad to help the underground railroad to help tne—weren-t- the slaves, they weren't ottertnt— the slaves, they weren't offering them - the slaves, they weren't offering them better prices on ten— offering them better prices on tnetr-vou— offering them better prices on their-you know,- offering them better prices on their you know, like it's their house. you know, like it's so inappropriate.— so inappropriate. it's so inappropriate. bizarre . inappropriate. it's bizarre. ttts— inappropriate. it's bizarre. tt-s oertatnty— inappropriate. it's bizarre. it's certainly suggests- inappropriate. it's bizarre. it's certainly suggests that this gentleman may have some

it's certainly suggests that this rofitleman may have some it's certainly suggests that this of martyri may have some it's certainly suggests that this of martyr complexie some it's certainly suggests that this of martyr complex .t some it's certainly suggests that this of martyr complex. right. kind of martyr complex. right. or like a hero complex where he's like, look at me . i am like he's like, look at me. i am like moses leading the gay people to freedom. but isn't the point that that that black people dunng that that that black people during the slave trade, they were oppressed gay people living in a present day america aren't oppressed. that's in a present day america aren't oppressed . that's the oppressed. that's the fundamental- i that's the fundamental difference. no oppressed. that's the— fundamental difference. no and wnat— fundamental difference. no and wtat ts— fundamental difference. no and what is interesting— fundamental difference. no and what is interesting is— fundamental difference. no and what is interesting is exactly what is interesting is exactly what leo pointed out. actually, it's what it is, is it's coming down to this encroaching ideology of sort of the transgender, the 72 genders, the identify as a cat, all of that kind of coming into sort of schools and young children. and that's what they're pushing against. but they're not pushing against. but they're not pushing against being gay. and there is there's a very big difference there. yeah. but also wanting to be a— there. yeah. but also wanting to be a wetn— there. yeah. but also wanting to be a victim, sort— there. yeah. but also wanting to be a victim, sort of— .“ti”ri; yeah. but also wanting to be a victim, sort of identifying yoursett— be a victim, sort of identifying yoursett tnto— be a victim, sort of identifying yourself into a— be a victim, sort of identifying yourself into a victim status, you— yourself into a victim status, you know.— yourself into a victim status, you know. saytnt— yourself into a victim status, you know, saying that my experiences— you know, saying that my experiences as— you know, saying that my experiences as bad as slavery ant— experiences as bad as slavery ant-tt— experiences as bad as slavery ant-tt rust- experiences as bad as slavery and-it just isn't. l and of course it just isn't. ant— and of course it just isn't. ant ttts— and of course it just isn't. and this something- and of course it just isn't. and this something spills over into horrific incidents. into into horrific incidents. when the a transgender when we saw the a transgender woman or a trans man went into a school and shot a christian

school and shot a christian school and shot lots of pupils because of this sense of grievance and because it's drilled in drilled into people . drilled in drilled into people. oh, you're a you're a victim. everything's literal. genocide against you . yeah. the hyperbole against you. yeah. the hyperbole is insane, isn't it? yeah. these people are real. and you can see this grievance narrative in any sort of in any sort of cult, any ideology that then commits atrocities. mean , islamism, atrocities. i mean, islamism, for okay. well we're for example. okay. well we're going to move on to another question this one is from question now. this one is from antrea— question now. this one is from andrea. where's— i this one is from andrea. where's andrea? yes, antrea— andrea. where's andrea? yes, antrea. sorry— andrea. where's andrea? yes, antrea. sorry .— andrea. where's andrea? yes, andrea, sorry . that's bad light andrea, sorry. that's bad light teserwe— andrea, sorry. that's bad light deserve marketing award . deserve marketing award. see, i towe— deserve marketing award. see, i tawe tut— deserve marketing award. see, i tawe tut ttatt— deserve marketing award. see, i love bud light because they they did the worst advertising campaign ever since gillette. do you remember when gillette did do you remember when gillette ttt an— do you remember when gillette ttt an atwert— do you remember when gillette did an advert basically berating its customers— did an advert basically berating its customers for— did an advert basically berating its customers for being male and tney— its customers for being male and tney tost— its customers for being male and they lost millions— its customers for being male and they lost millions ?_ its customers for being male and they lost millions ? then bud they lost millions? then bud tttnt— they lost millions? then bud tttnt ttt— they lost millions? then bud light did this. _ they lost millions? then bud light did this. dylan mulvaney atwet— light did this. dylan mulvaney advert, which— light did this. dylan mulvaney advert, which basically berated its customers— advert, which basically berated its customers and— advert, which basically berated its customers and sort of really tnsuttet— its customers and sort of really insulted women— its customers and sort of really insulted women by having a man pranetnt— insulted women by having a man pranetne arount— insulted women by having a man prancing around who thinks he's a woman . so now— prancing around who thinks he's a woman . so now we've got the

a woman. so now we've got the tut— a woman. so now we've got the tut tttnt— a woman. so now we've got the tut ttgnt wno— a woman. so now we've got the bud light who lost— a woman. so now we've got the bud light who lost 20 billion, by tne— bud light who lost 20 billion, by tne way— bud light who lost 20 billion, by tne way .— bud light who lost 20 billion, by the way . yeah. so bud light, by the way. yeah. so bud light, teause— by the way. yeah. so bud light, teause ot— by the way. yeah. so bud light, because of this— by the way. yeah. so bud light, because of this terrible aanpatgn— because of this terrible campaign, they lost $20 billion. tney-we— campaign, they lost $20 billion. tneytwe twen— campaign, they lost $20 billion. they've given themselves an awart— they've given themselves an awart .— they've given themselves an awart . or at— they've given themselves an award , or at least the person award, or at least the person responsttte— award, or at least the person responsible for— award, or at least the person responsible for creative ttarteter— responsible for creative marketer year. yeah, marketer of the year. yeah, i mean, certainly— marketer of the year. yeah, i mean, certainly pretty creative. i mean, certainly pretty creative. t nan— mean, certainly pretty creative. t .— mean, certainly pretty creative. t . nataty— mean, certainly pretty creative. i mean , nobody thought- mean, certainly pretty creative. i mean , nobody thought a- mean, certainly pretty creative. i mean , nobody thought a losing i mean, nobody thought a losing $20 billion before that. i mean, it certainly got them some coverage. yeah, that's the thing . they actually do deserve the nartettnt— . they actually do deserve the marketing award— they actually do deserve the marketing award because we are all marketing award because we are at tatttnt— marketing award because we are all talking about— marketing award because we are all talking about it. it has gone— all talking about it. it has gone worldwide. it wasn't the pront— gone worldwide. it wasn't the prottt awart— gone worldwide. it wasn't the profit award-it- gone worldwide. it wasn't the profit award. it was the profit award. no, it was the nartettnt— profit award. no, it was the nartettng . — profit award. no, it was the marketing . we- profit award. no, it was the marketing . �*titt�*ri it”ri; “rig marketing. we are all talking about it. but what we're not doing is drinking bud light. yeah, but we know what bud yeah, no, but we know what bud light know there. we light is. we know it's there. we know— light is. we know it's there. we know-te— light is. we know it's there. we know-toe a— light is. we know it's there. we know-be a thing- light is. we know it's there. we know-be a thing that. g we know it's there. we know be a thing that we know it might be a thing that we hate,— know it might be a thing that we hate, but— know it might be a thing that we hate, but we— know it might be a thing that we hate, but we know— know it might be a thing that we hate, but we know it exists. n-s— hate, but we know it exists. n-s in— hate, but we know it exists. it's in-minds.- hate, but we know it exists. it's in minds. i'm sure at it's in our minds. i'm sure at point— it's in our minds. i'm sure at point-our- it's in our minds. i'm sure at some point our presenters some point one of our presenters wm— some point one of our presenters will be— some point one of our presenters will be setting— some point one of our presenters will be setting fire— some point one of our presenters will be setting fire cans will be setting fire to cans of bud—sure- will be setting fire to cans of bud—sure the- bud light. i'm sure the shareholders your view on shareholders share your view on that. okay. so anyway, next on free speech nation, it's 75 years since the empire windrush ship brought hundreds of people from jamaica to britain. author riki baysan will be here to discuss the lasting significance

of their arrival. don't go anywhere .

have taken over moscow. /:::. ”c; have taken over moscow. you're listening— have taken over moscow. you're listening to— have taken over moscow. you're iieiening in en— have taken over moscow. you're listening to gb news radio . listening to gb news radio. welcome back to free speech nation. this week marks the 75th anniversary— nation. this week marks the 75th anniversary ei— nation. this week marks the 75th anniversary of the— m? iii" this week marks the 75th anniversary of the arrival at iiiinn— anniversary of the arrival at tilbury docks— anniversary of the arrival at tilbury docks of— anniversary of the arrival at tilbury docks of the empire. iiiniinen— tilbury docks of the empire. windrush ship,— tilbury docks of the empire. windrush ship, which brought nnniieie— windrush ship, which brought nnniieie ei— windrush ship, which brought hundreds of people from jamaica to hundreds of people from jamaica ie ine— hundreds of people from jamaica ie ine ue— hundreds of people from jamaica ie ine iik .— hundreds of people from jamaica ie ine iik . they— hundreds of people from jamaica to the uk . they and many other to the uk. they and many other ceiiiieen— to the uk. they and many other caribbean immigrants who arrived in ine— caribbean immigrants who arrived in ine ue— caribbean immigrants who arrived in ine iik ever— caribbean immigrants who arrived in the uk over the— caribbean immigrants who arrived in the uk over the following years— in the uk over the following yene ieeenne— in the uk over the following years became-as- in the uk over the following years became as the years became known as the iiiniinen— years became known as the windrush generation and have none— windrush generation and have none-io— windrush generation and have iene-ie sinne— windrush generation and have done to shape modern done much to shape modern innin— britain. despite facing racism eni— britain. despite facing racism and intolerance— britain. despite facing racism and intolerance at times. joining— and intolerance at times. joining ne— and intolerance at times. joining ne io— and intolerance at times. joining me to discuss the huge eigniiieenee— joining me to discuss the huge significance of— joining me to discuss the huge significance of the windrush eniveie— significance of the windrush eniveie .— significance of the windrush arrivals , i'm— significance of the windrush arrivals , i'm-by- arrivals, i'm joined by the eeeiei— arrivals, i'm joined by the social-analyst- arrivals, i'm joined by the social analyst and arrivals, i'm joined by the- social-analyst and author social policy analyst and author of e— social policy analyst and author of a ne— social policy analyst and author of a new book,— social policy analyst and author of a new book, beyond grievance wnei— of a new book, beyond grievance wnei-ieii— of a new book, beyond grievance what-left gets— of a new book, beyond grievance what left gets wrong about what the left gets wrong about iinnie— what the left gets wrong about ethnic minorities.— what the left gets wrong about ethnic minorities. raqib san, inenke— ethnic minorities. raqib san, inenke fei— ethnic minorities. raqib san, thanks for joining me. ethnic minorities. raqib san, thanks forjoining me. raqib i wani— thanks forjoining me. raqib i neni io— thanks forjoining me. raqib i neni ie nei— thanks forjoining me. raqib i want to ask you— thanks forjoining me. raqib i want to ask you first specifically - want to ask you first specifically about the windrush generaiien— specifically about the windrush generation. you _ specifically about the windrush generation. you wrote a fascinating— generation. you wrote a fascinating article for spiked inie— fascinating article for spiked inie week— fascinating article for spiked inie week .— fascinating article for spiked this week . now,— fascinating article for spiked this week . now, when these this week. now, when these peenie— this week. now, when these people arrived— this week. now, when these people arrived ,_ this week. now, when these people arrived , they were, of people arrived, they were, of course invited _ people arrived, they were, of course invited .— people arrived, they were, of course invited . we wanted course invited. we wanted niiiein— course invited. we wanted

britain wanted— course invited. we wanted britain wanted people to come nee.— britain wanted people to come here ini— britain wanted people to come here in they— britain wanted people to come here, but they nonetheless faced ineieiiiie — here, but they nonetheless faced incredible racism _ here, but they nonetheless faced incredible racism and hostility. wnei— incredible racism and hostility. wnei neppenei— incredible racism and hostility. what happened there now.7 nineinieiy. — what happened there now? absolutely. andrew- what happened there now? absolutely. andrew as- what happened there now? absolutely. andrew as i wrote in my piece, despite these, were optimistic and dynamic migrants , many had connections with the british military or indeed had served themselves in allied efforts to defeat and fascism in the second world war. over time, the second world war. over time, the windrush generation, some responded to job advertisements, which were directly circulated by the uk government to fill vacancies in the various sectors such as healthcare and transport. but there was that , transport. but there was that, there was that affection there, that there was returning to the mother of the empire. but as i also wrote in the piece, the reception to their arrival in the uk was not necessarily welcoming and hospitable . welcoming and hospitable. there's hostility ranging from some churches to the trade unions. many faced a great deal of discrimination . then there

of discrimination. then there was the 1958 notting hill riots , where so—called teddy boys were encouraging white british residents to keep britain white. but then over time , when you but then over time, when you move into the 1960s, with the passage of race relations legislation , the situation did legislation, the situation did improve over time, and that did facilitate the integration of migrants , which was a real migrants, which was a real positive development. and a lot of these people, of course, were very coming very well educated, were coming here really much here and doing really much needed , and yet they still needed jobs, and yet they still had to put up with this hostility. but it does just go to hostility. but it does just go ie snow.— hostility. but it does just go to show, doesn't— hostility. but it does just go to show, doesn't it,- c can but it does just go to show, doesn't it, how far wewe-on.- to show, doesn't it, how far wewe-on. no.- to show, doesn't it, how far- we've-oh, no, absolutely. we've come? oh, no, absolutely. and that i've and that's a point that i've made on occasions . made on numerous occasions. andrew, look at the andrew, when you look at the kind of in—your—face racism that was faced by members of the windrush generation back in those days , we've really made those days, we've really made fantastic progress when it comes to racial equality in our country. and that was demonstrated in a new report published by british future, which showed that a comfortable majority ethnic minority majority of ethnic minority brits feel that over the last 25 years we've made significant

progress when it comes to racial equality and 80% of ethnic minority brits believe that it's better to live in britain as an ethnic minority when compared to other countries such as usa , other countries such as usa, france and germany. and that's something that i've argued for something that i've argued for some time, that brexit, britain actually outperforms a range of eu member states, such as france, germany and the netherlands. it comes to netherlands. when it comes to providing anti—discrimination protections on the of protections on the grounds of race, ethnicity religion . race, ethnicity and religion. so to what extent do you think inni— so to what extent do you thinkl inn—in that the windrush generation in of that the windrush generation in ei—neinei- that the windrush generation in ei—neinei io- that the windrush generation in of helped to forge of themselves helped to forge inn— of themselves helped to forge inei progress— of themselves helped to forge that progress that the country nee— that progress that the country has gene— that progress that the country has gone through as a whole? iieii— has gone through as a whole? iieii i— has gone through as a whole? iieii i inink— has gone through as a whole? well i think that— has gone through as a whole? well i think that originally wnen— well i think that originally wnen yen— well i think that originally when you look— well i think that originally when you look at the anti—racism nneveineni i— when you look at the anti—racism movement, i think— when you look at the anti—racism movement, i think the anti—racism- movement, i think the anti—racism movement, by the way,— anti—racism movement, by the wen-nun— anti—racism movement, by the wen-nun ieei- anti—racism movement, by the way,-truly lost its- anti—racism movement, by the way, truly lost its way way, it has truly lost its way in ieeeni— way, it has truly lost its way in recent times— way, it has truly lost its way in recent times because much of it in recent times because much of ii nee— in recent times because much of it has brainlessly_ in recent times because much of it has brainlessly imported us reeiei— it has brainlessly imported us racial identity— it has brainlessly imported us racial identity politics. but back— racial identity politics. but back in— racial identity politics. but back in ine— racial identity politics. but back in the 1950s- racial identity politics. but back in the 1950s and 60s , you back in the 1950s and 60s, you had a legendary figures such as salieri, constantine , who really salieri, constantine, who really did do fantastic work in terms

of, you know, fighting racial discrimination and pressing for legislation which would help the social, economic and political integration of ethnic and racial minorities living in this country. now, minorities living in this country . now, things all seem to country. now, things all seem to go country. now, things all seem to 90 a— country. now, things all seem to go a iii— country. now, things all seem to go a bi ween-g— country. now, things all seem to go a bi weng a— country. now, things all seem to go a bit wrong. a few— iti]. now, things all seem to go a bit wrong. a few years ago, wnen— go a bit wrong. a few years ago, wnen ineneee— go a bit wrong. a few years ago, when theresa may— go a bit wrong. a few years ago, when theresa may introduced this neeiiie— when theresa may introduced this hostile environment policy , she hostile environment policy, she eni— hostile environment policy, she and inie— hostile environment policy, she eni inie nei— hostile environment policy, she and this had a— hostile environment policy, she and this had a direct impact on ei— and this had a direct impact on of ne— and this had a direct impact on some of the wind— and this had a direct impact on some of the wind rush generation.— some of the wind rush generation. there were people wne— generation. there were people wne wee— generation. there were people who were told— generation. there were people who were told that they don't ieieng — who were told that they don't ieieng newe— who were told that they don't belong here, that they had to go been.— belong here, that they had to go been. wee— belong here, that they had to go back. was this— belong here, that they had to go back. was this you— belong here, that they had to go back. was this you will recall, of course, this— back. was this you will recall, of course, this this huge governmental- of course, this this huge governmental error. but were nine— governmental error. but were eniiiee igni— governmental error. but were critics right to _ governmental error. but were critics right to interpret that as-or was that- as racism or was that just incompetence— as racism or was that just incompetence ?- as racism or was that just incompetence ? i think that when incompetence? i think that when we ieew— incompetence? i think that when we ieew ei— incompetence? i think that when we ieew ei ine— incompetence? i think that when we look at the windrush scandal . inene-e— we look at the windrush scandal . inene-e e— we look at the windrush scandal .inene-e a green— we look at the windrush scandal , there's a great deal of administrative incompetence aunus— administrative incompetence aunus nui— administrative incompetence aunus in i— administrative incompetence aukus but i think the issue is inn— aukus but i think the issue is inn wnen— aukus but i think the issue is inn wnen wew— aukus but i think the issue is that when you when you look at inni— that when you when you look at ineiline— that when you when you look at that-the broader— that when you when you look at that the broader context of that in the broader context of ne— that in the broader context of the environmental the hostile environmental geiiew— the hostile environmental geiiew i— the hostile environmental policy, i think— the hostile environmental policy, i think the people wiiineieiw— policy, i think the people ultimately when look ultimately when they look at innigneiien— ultimately when they look at immigration what want, immigration in what they want, new— immigration in what they want, new wani— immigration in what they want, they want competence and they wani— they want competence and they wane-gneneniw- they want competence and they want properly managed. want it to be properly managed. i want it to be properly managed. i-inini— want it to be properly managed. i-inini inni— want it to be properly managed. i-think that was— want it to be properly managed. i-think that was the-

want it to be properly managed. i-think that was the case.l i don't think that was the case. when the windrush when we look at the windrush scandal, ultimately we scandal, because ultimately we were people were were looking at people who were being discriminated against, people who had provided people who had who had provided a deal of loyal service a great deal of loyal service to the especially in the country, especially in sectors, as i said, in health care and transport. i think that my main worry is that the level of damage that it did already of damage that it did to already disaffected communities of black canbbean disaffected communities of black caribbean origin, especially communities that felt that, for example , the metropolitan police example, the metropolitan police service in london had grossly mismanaged the racist murder of stephen lawrence. so i do think that there are lessons to be learned from the windrush scandal, and we have to really speed up that process of compensation as which has compensation as well, which has been slow and been far too slow and inefficient. i ask you about inefficient. can i ask you about your book beyond grievance what the left gets wrong about ethnic minorities? it's quite provocative -, - minorities? it's quitej provocative -, but provocative title, but potentially - provocative title, but potentially you might be wgeeiiing— potentially you might be upsetting some people the upsetting some people on the inn.— upsetting some people on the en nui— upsetting some people on the en nwe-going— upsetting some people on the left. but going ask you upsetting some people on the left. do going ask you upsetting some people on the left. do the going ask you upsetting some people on the left. do the leftig ask you upsetting some people on the left. do the left get ask you upsetting some people on the left. do the left get wrong'ou upsetting some people on the left. do the left get wrong ? what do the left get wrong? i inini— what do the left get wrong? i inini inew— what do the left get wrong? i inini inew gei— what do the left get wrong? i think they get a— what do the left get wrong? i think they get a great- what do the left get wrong? i think they get a great deal wrong. andrew, think you're wrong. andrew, i think you're fantastic at highlighting that yourself, think looking at yourself, but i think looking at it from from my point of view

and in terms of what i've written in my new book, beyond grievance, it's a tension between to be between what i consider to be a radical cultural liberalism , radical cultural liberalism, which has taken hold on the modern british left and the more patriotic and traditional sentiments that you'll find in many british ethnic minority communities. so i talk a great deal about family values. i also talk about how ethnic minority, ethnic minority people in the uk , a lot of them don't want to be seen as victims in their own country. they belong to robust family units. they really want to strive to do better and make the the opportunities the most of the opportunities that provided in british that they're provided in british democracy and said democracy. and as i said earlier, they're very much aware of and freedoms of the protections and freedoms that provided their that they're provided in their country compared to ethnic minorities living in other countries, as france and countries, such as france and germany. so i think that what the offers is a more the book offers is a more positive account of britain's record on race relations and more broadly on matters of equality . motty and it really equality. motty and it really what it is , it instructs the what it is, it instructs the left that when you're looking at

inequalities, not to look at everything through the prism of race, also look at social class or even things such as might or even things such as it might sound a boring, things sound a bit boring, but things like a geographically like living in a geographically isolated think isolated community. i think things like that are far more important comes to important when it comes to shaping chances. in modern shaping life chances. in modern day . motty you mentioned day britain. motty you mentioned that day britain. motty you mentioned inn we— day britain. motty you mentioned inn we-e— day britain. motty you mentioned that we -a tendency- 2pi " motty you mentioned that we a tendency here to that we have a tendency here to ingen— that we have a tendency here to ingen-eiewi- that we have a tendency here to import-about race- import narratives about race nen— import narratives about race non-us— import narratives about race non-us eni— import narratives about race from us and kind of impose from the us and kind of impose inen — from the us and kind of impose inen onio— from the us and kind of impose them onto our— from the us and kind of impose them onto our situation and them onto our own situation and them onto our own situation and ine-wiin— them onto our own situation and ine-wiin inei. - them onto our own situation and the-with that. but- them onto our own situation and the with that. but if the problems with that. but if i eewii— the problems with that. but if i could mention,— the problems with that. but if i could mention, robin diangelo's neet.— could mention, robin diangelo's teen—eni- could mention, robin diangelo's book,_and robini book, white fragility and robin niangeie— book, white fragility and robin diangelo believes that actually in en— diangelo believes that actually in present— diangelo believes that actually in our present day things are worse for ethnic— in our present day things are worse for ethnic minorities than new— worse for ethnic minorities than new wee— worse for ethnic minorities than they were during— worse for ethnic minorities than they were during the period of jim they were during the period of in crew.— they were during the period of jim crow, because her argument is jim crow, because her argument ie inni— jim crow, because her argument is net ei— jim crow, because her argument ie net at ine— jim crow, because her argument is that at the time— jim crow, because her argument is that at the time of jim crow, it is that at the time of jim crow, ii wee— is that at the time of jim crow, ii eti— is that at the time of jim crow, it was all overt.— is that at the time of jim crow, it was all overt. you could see ine— it was all overt. you could see tne neeien— it was all overt. you could see the racism, but— it was all overt. you could see the racism, but-it's- it was all overt. you could see the racism, but it's been the racism, but now it's been ewiewnei— subsumed, so it's often inwieiiie— subsumed, so it's often invisible and- subsumed, so it's often invisible and it's happening. iwen— invisible and it's happening. ewen-cent— invisible and it's happening. even-can't see- invisible and it's happening. even can't see it. what even if you can't see it. what do even if you can't see it. what to wew— even if you can't see it. what to you newe— even if you can't see it. what do you make argument? do you make of that argument? wew.— do you make of that argument? wew-in— do you make of that argument? wew-in tne— do you make of that argument? well,-in the british- well, i think in the british context, i make the point in the book still improvements book there's still improvements to about the to be made. i talk about in the labour market that, you know, names culturally names which are culturally distant sounding tend fare distant sounding tend to fare worse traditionally english worse than traditionally english sounding even when you sounding names, even when you control experience ,

control for work experience, skills and educational qualifications . and i talk about qualifications. and i talk about having a more efficient and responsive care system , responsive health care system, which is which functions better in the face of having an ever diversifying population. i do talk improving police talk about improving police community relations as well, but i think that the and i think i think, for example, i think of runnymede trust in 2000, they published the report which which provided which provided the view that to suggest that racism is widespread in the britain of 2000 was a partisan and skewed view. and then more recently they published a report which said that our systems in england are deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities. i simply don't believe that. and i don't believe that this argument that racial and ethnic minorities more generally in the west, in the western world, are worse off now compared to before. well, it's interesting that— now compared to before. well, it's interesting that you- it's interesting that you mentioned— it's interesting that you mentioned the runnymede trust. they— mentioned the runnymede trust. new—nei— mentioned the runnymede trust. inew—nei e- mentioned the runnymede trust. inew—nei a see. they seem to have had a sea enenge— they seem to have had a sea enenge nen— they seem to have had a sea change from that— they seem to have had a sea change from that attitude back in 2000. — change from that attitude back in 2000-imit— change from that attitude back in 2000-that just- change from that attitude back in 2000. that just because in 2000. is that just because eeiiwiete— in 2000. is that just because activists have— in 2000. is that just because activists have kind seized activists have kind of seized net—newe- activists have kind of seizedi that—have with that group, as they have with even—tent-

that group, as they have with every _tank and. every other think tank and eneniw— every other think tank and eneniw e — every other think tank and eneniw e i— every other think tank and charity ? i think- every other think tank and charity ? charity? i think it's a possibility. i think that there are organisations who perhaps their presence aviation is ultimately reliant on peddling this narrative that britain is a fundamental racist society . and fundamental racist society. and |, fundamental racist society. and i, i definitely disagree with that. and, and i, i definitely disagree with that . and, and yet there are that. and, and yet there are exenniee— that. and, and yet there are exengiee ei— that. and, and yet there are examples of where- and, and yet there are examples of where we do see quite— examples of where we do see quite even— examples of where we do see quite overt racism . i mean, this quite overt racism. i mean, this new— quite overt racism. i mean, this new a— quite overt racism. i mean, this new a new— quite overt racism. i mean, this story a few weeks— quite overt racism. i mean, this story a few weeks ago about the peei— story a few weeks ago about the poet eiiiee— story a few weeks ago about the post office and— story a few weeks ago about the post office and their guidelines and new— post office and their guidelines and new wee— post office and their guidelines and they were using quite ewenw— and they were using quite overtly horrific— and they were using quite overtly horrific racist inngwege- overtly horrific racist language. there's no getting newne— language. there's no getting enewni inn— language. there's no getting around that . _ language. there's no getting around that . ' 2 give around that. and an absolutely and i've even included it at the point in the book. for example, when you saw the blacklist being used to directly target members of the gypsy and traveller communities. so, so, so i do include episodes like that in the book. but i think that when you compare that to what i'd consider a very aggressive form of racial discrimination , when of racial discrimination, when you're looking at violence, harassment and intimidation, i do think that we've made

significant strides from that. but as i say in the book, i don't think i look at britain through rose tinted spectacles. i say that actually what we should strive do is make should strive to do is make these improvements in various spheres of british life. so with the gold standard the ultimate gold standard example of a successful multiracial democracy in the modern world, ricky besson, thanks so much forjoining me today. really appreciate it. wants.— today. really appreciate it. inane-.— today. really appreciate it. inentel se— today. really appreciate it. thanks,-. so next- 2 really appreciate it. thanks, . so next on free thanks, ipp. so next on free seeeen— thanks, ipp. so next on free speech nation,— thanks, ipp. so next on free speech nation, top irish iewnneiiei— speech nation, top irish journalist david quinn will be newe— journalist david quinn will be nene te— journalist david quinn will be here to discuss— journalist david quinn will be here to discuss the potential ramifications— here to discuss the potential ramifications of— here to discuss the potential ramifications of the hugely contentious— ramifications of the hugely contentious hate crime bill. see you— contentious hate crime bill. see wew in— contentious hate crime bill. see wew in e— contentious hate crime bill. see you in a moment— contentious hate crime bill. see you in a moment .— contentious hate crime bill. see you in a moment . woo

michael portillo gb news entwine— michael portillo gb news britain's news— michael portillo gb news britain's news . michael portillo gb news britain's news. channel michael portillo gb news britain's news . channel hello, britain's news. channel hello, weieene— britain's news. channel hello, welcome back— britain's news. channel hello, welcome back to— britain's news. channel hello, welcome back to free speech weiien. — welcome back to free speech nation. with— welcome back to free speech nation. with me— welcome back to free speech nation. ' 2 welcome back to free speech nation. 2 i nation. with me andrew doyle. the irish government is currently trying to pass a criminal justice bill which has been the subject of some heated debate. defenders of the bill have argued that the restrictions it apparently places speech are for

places on free speech are for the benefit of all but critics of the bill say it contains worryingly authoritarian provisions . david worryingly authoritarian provisions. david quinn, a columnist for the sunday independent, joins us to discuss the bill. david, thanks so much for joining us. could you forjoining us. could you perhaps give us some kind of background this bill? because background to this bill? because it reported as it hasn't been reported on as much like in england? much as i would like in england? well it hasn't been reported enoughin well it hasn't been reported enough in ireland either , enough in ireland either, actually. so this was introduced to actually. so this was introduced te neeieee— actually. so this was introduced te neeieee en— actually. so this was introduced to replace or is— actually. so this was introduced to replace or is being- to replace or is being introduced- to replace or is being introduced to replace the incitement _ introduced to replace the incitement of— introduced to replace the incitement of hatred act from new — incitement of hatred act from new and — incitement of hatred act from 1989 and various— incitement of hatred act from 1989 and various ngos decided it ieeen-i— 1989 and various ngos decided it ieeenii ge— 1989 and various ngos decided it ieeenii ge in— 1989 and various ngos decided it doesn't go far enough. we newen-i— doesn't go far enough. we haven't had— doesn't go far enough. we haven't had any prosecutions wnien— haven't had any prosecutions wnien ine— haven't had any prosecutions under the 1989— haven't had any prosecutions under the 1989 bill and we need eneeeewtiene— under the 1989 bill and we need prosecutions because hate is on the prosecutions because hate is on tne ineeeee— prosecutions because hate is on tne in— prosecutions because hate is on the increase in ireland. and so nie— the increase in ireland. and so inie iii— the increase in ireland. and so inie eiii ie— the increase in ireland. and so this bill is currently working its this bill is currently working iie wew— this bill is currently working its way through— this bill is currently working its way through the upper house, wnien— its way through the upper house, wnien ie— its way through the upper house, which is called— its way through the upper house, which is called the— its way through the upper house, which is called the senate. over nee.— which is called the senate. over nene. nie— which is called the senate. over here. it's already— which is called the senate. over here. it's already gone through more or less through the lower wewee— more or less through the lower wewe—went- more or less through the lower house, went through by house, and they went through by like house, and they went through by iiie no— house, and they went through by like 110 votes— house, and they went through by like 110 votes-12.— house, and they went through by like 110 votes 12. there was like 110 votes to 12. there was ieee— like 110 votes to 12. there was ieee en— like 110 votes to 12. there was ieee ei e— like 110 votes to 12. there was less of a debate— like 110 votes to 12. there was less of a debate than in seeing— less of a debate than in eeeiieni .— less of a debate than in scotland . and- less of a debate than in scotland . and there's all kinds scotland. and there's all kinds of scotland. and there's all kinds ei-eeeeeie— scotland. and there's all kinds en-eeeeete te - scotland. and there's all kinds of-aspects to the- scotland. and there's all kinds of aspects to the bill. of worrying aspects to the bill. we of worrying aspects to the bill. we-weien— of worrying aspects to the bill. we - helen joyce - of worrying aspects to the bill. we helen joyce here, by we had helen joyce over here, by the we had helen joyce over here, by tne wew— we had helen joyce over here, by tne wew e— we had helen joyce over here, by we wew e new— we had helen joyce over here, by the way, a few weeks ago, eneeeiw— the way, a few weeks ago, eneeeiw-ie- probably familiar to your-

viewers,_extremely viewers, and she was extremely eiennei—enengl viewers, and she was extremelyl alarmed—among the alarmed about it. so among the ininge— alarmed about it. so among the ininge-ie— alarmed about it. so among the things is introduces things it does is introduces eiwiewew— things it does is introduces obviously the— things it does is introduces obviously the concept of hate. it obviously the concept of hate. ii ieeenii— obviously the concept of hate. it doesn't-hate.- it doesn't define hate. it introduces— it doesn't define hate. it introduces it— it doesn't define hate. it introduces it to one of the eneieetei— introduces it to one of the protected characteristics , the protected characteristics, the ieee— protected characteristics, the idea ei— protected characteristics, the idea of gender.— protected characteristics, the idea of gender. but gender isn't ieiinei— idea of gender. but gender isn't ieiinei ween— idea of gender. but gender isn't defined apart from the idea of inieniien— defined apart from the idea of inieniien te— defined apart from the idea of intention to cause hate. it has ine— intention to cause hate. it has tne ieee— intention to cause hate. it has the idea that,— intention to cause hate. it has the idea that, well, okay, antrew— the idea that, well, okay, andrew doyle— the idea that, well, okay, andrew doyle is not intending to nwe.— andrew doyle is not intending to cause hate, but— andrew doyle is not intending to cause hate, but he— andrew doyle is not intending to cause hate, but he was reckless eiewi— cause hate, but he was reckless eiewi ii.— cause hate, but he was reckless eiewi in se— cause hate, but he was reckless about it. so he— cause hate, but he was reckless about it. so he should have tnewn— about it. so he should have tnewn wnei— about it. so he should have known what the— about it. so he should have known what the effect of his wewe— known what the effect of his wenie en— known what the effect of his words or his— known what the effect of his words or his writings were going to words or his writings were going e be. — words or his writings were going e be. new— words or his writings were going e be. new enn— words or his writings were going to be. they can also take a hold of to be. they can also take a hold ei wew— to be. they can also take a hold of your computer— to be. they can also take a hold of your computer or— to be. they can also take a hold of your computer or other eieenenie— of your computer or other electronic device on the grounds inni— electronic device on the grounds inei wew— electronic device on the grounds inei you nigni— electronic device on the grounds that you might have something new— that you might have something new en— that you might have something new en ii— that you might have something hateful on it ,_ that you might have something hateful on it, and you're going to hateful on it, and you're going te eeei— hateful on it, and you're going to release this— hateful on it, and you're going to release this at— hateful on it, and you're going to release this at any moment. ani— to release this at any moment. and in— to release this at any moment. and in wew— to release this at any moment. and if you refuse— to release this at any moment. and if you refuse to hand over wew— and if you refuse to hand over wewn eeeeweni— and if you refuse to hand over your password, they can fine wew.— your password, they can fine wew. ,5,ooo,_ your password, they can fine you. ,5,000, all— your password, they can fine you. ,5,000, all kinds of winning— you. ,5,000, all kinds of alarming aspects. " alarming aspects. i mean, tnwe-e— alarming aspects. i mean, tneneie ee— alarming aspects. i mean, there's so much in what you say there's so much in what you say there that is that is chilling. i mean, the idea that they can look at your computer, your look at your your computer, your phone, something like that. and they've come up with this idea that have the intent it that if you have the intent it to share material, that to share the material, that could up hatred, that to share the material, that coa d up hatred, that to share the material, that coa prosecutable ed, that to share the material, that coa prosecutable offence.that

to share the material, that coa prosecutable offence. but is a prosecutable offence. but firstly, how would they know what or and how what the intent is or and how are they defining what is hateful? because we all have different ideas about what we find ? well, they can't find hateful? well, they can't do find hateful? well, they can't we ii— find hateful? well, they can't we i new— find hateful? well, they can't we ii .— find hateful? well, they can't do it now . the— find hateful? well, they can't do it now . the justice- �*" 2 3’ well, they can't do it now . the justice minister, do it now. the justice minister, weien— do it now. the justice minister, helen mcentee_ do it now. the justice minister, helen mcentee ,_ do it now. the justice minister, helen mcentee , she's reassuring helen mcentee, she's reassuring ewewieiw— helen mcentee, she's reassuring eweweeiw inni— helen mcentee, she's reassuring everybody that everything will be everybody that everything will we etew— everybody that everything will we etew in— everybody that everything will ee okay in ne— everybody that everything will be okay in the night. so on the nann— be okay in the night. so on the one hand, she's— be okay in the night. so on the one hand, she's saying the bill is one hand, she's saying the bill ie neeiw— one hand, she's saying the bill ie neeiw betw— one hand, she's saying the bill is really badly needed because ineneie—in- is really badly needed becausei there's—in ireland. there's so much hate in ireland. nwt— there's so much hate in ireland. nwt-einen— there's so much hate in ireland. but-other-she's. but on the other hand, she's eewing— but on the other hand, she's eewing —ine - saying, well, when the bill inte— saying, well, when the bill comes into force, it won't neeiw— comes into force, it won't really affect— comes into force, it won't really affect all- comes into force, it won't really affect all that many eeeeie— really affect all that many eeeeie-enw- really affect all that many people. only affect people. it will only affect tninge— people. it will only affect. tninge—nwt people. it will only affect- things_but then people. it will only affect- thingdo_but then people. it will only affect- thingdo.need-but then people. it will only affect- thingdo.need.replace then people. it will only affect- thing do . need i replace the n why do we need to replace the ineiieneni— why do we need to replace the incitement to _ why do we need to replace the incitement to hatred act of ieeee— incitement to hatred act of ieeeelinie— incitement to hatred act of 1989?.this isn't- incitement to hatred act of 1989? this isn't something 1989? so this isn't something net— 1989? so this isn't something inei—exeiein. l 1989? so this isn't somethingl that—explain. so that she can really explain. so inie— that she can really explain. so inie ining— that she can really explain. so inie ining ie— that she can really explain. so this thing is going to go out inte— this thing is going to go out inie ine— this thing is going to go out into the wild,— this thing is going to go out into the wild, were, into the wild, as it were, eeneiine— into the wild, as it were, sometime _next. into the wild, as it were, sometime _next months. sometime in the next few months. and ineneie— sometime in the next few months. and inene-e geing— sometime in the next few months. and there's going to— sometime in the next few months. and there's going to be all tinie— and there's going to be all kinds.ngos_ and there's going to be all kinds ngos just dying to kinds of ngos just dying to repen— kinds of ngos just dying to renew-nen- kinds of ngos just dying to report for so—called hate report people for so—called hate eni— report people for so—called hate and nen— report people for so—called hate and tnen we— report people for so—called hate and then we don't— report people for so—called hate and then we don't know what's going— and then we don't know what's geinglneeeen— and then we don't know what's going-happeh-it'lll and then we don't know what's going happen it'll go going to happen because it'll go inte— going to happen because it'll go inie—we- going to happen because it'll go inie—we newel into court eventually. we have to into court eventually. we have ie-wnei— into court eventually. we have ie-wnei tne— into court eventually. we have to-what the court- into court eventually. we have to what the court and the to see what the court and the judge— to see what the court and the iwige—in- to see what the court and the iwige—in ine- judge will do. but in the neninie— judge will do. but in the meantime, it's- judge will do. but in the meantime, it's going have meantime, it's going to have inie—ieeeiel this chilling effect. people are going— this chilling effect. people are geing ie— this chilling effect. people are going to .terrified- this chilling effect. people are going to terrified have going to be terrified to have to. going to be terrified to have te-eeiiing— going to be terrified to have ie-eeiiing te- going to be terrified to have to. calling to their to. police calling to their teen— to. police calling to their door.-that's- to. police calling to their door. that's enough to door. and that's enough to ieniiw— door. and that's enough to ieniiw neet— door. and that's enough to terrify most people into not eeeeting— terrify most people into not eeeeting ewi— terrify most people into not speaking out on certain topics.

wew.— speaking out on certain topics. weii. tne— speaking out on certain topics. wet the point— speaking out on certain topics. well, the point-i— speaking out on certain topics. well, the point-i mean,- speaking out on certain topics. well, the point is, i mean, hate crime legislation and hate speech across europe, the speech laws across europe, the common factor is that no one really to hate. really knows how to define hate. and you're talking about the irish government saying that it's affect the it's only going to affect the most instances. but most extreme instances. but when it to the debate, it comes to the gender debate, we hear activists all the time claiming instance , claiming that, for instance, being equivalent being misgendered is equivalent to genocide. so they interpret things as being extreme, even when they're not. so how can we be sure that the courts won't do the same ? well, in the be sure that the courts won't do the same ? well , in the uk a few the same? well, in the uk a few wewe— the same? well, in the uk a few wewe age— the same? well, in the uk a few wewe age you— the same? well, in the uk a few years ago you probably- , well, in the uk a few years ago you probably recall we had years ago you probably recall we nee enenen— years ago you probably recall we had graham linehan , who is one had graham linehan, who is one of had graham linehan, who is one ei ine— had graham linehan, who is one of the co—writers_ had graham linehan, who is one of the co—writers of— had graham linehan, who is one of the co—writers of father ted . eni — of the co—writers of father ted . and ne — of the co—writers of father ted . and ne nei— of the co—writers of father ted , and he had police visiting his ween— , and he had police visiting his door because— , and he had police visiting his door because he— , and he had police visiting his door because he had quote wngweie— door because he had quote unquote misgendered someone and so unquote misgendered someone and ee we we— unquote misgendered someone and ee we we weneni— unquote misgendered someone and so we just wonder, well, eeneining— so we just wonder, well, something that that happened in ineienei— something that that happened in ireland, because— something that that happened in ireland, because all it is ireland, because all it takes is an ireland, because all it takes is en-eeneiein- ireland, because all it takes is an complain about an activist to complain about wew.— an activist to complain about wew-_ninwte- an activist to complain about. you.-minute-police you. and next minute the police nigni— you. and next minute the police nigni-wewn— you. and next minute the police nigni-wewn ween- you. and next minute the police might your door and might come to your door and i neiieei— might come to your door and i noticed-scotland, - might come to your door and i noticed scotland, by way, noticed in scotland, by the way, inewgn— noticed in scotland, by the way, even though they— noticed in scotland, by the way, even though they passed a bill, it even though they passed a bill, ii neenii— even though they passed a bill, ii neenit wet— even though they passed a bill, it hasn't yet commenced because eeiiee— it hasn't yet commenced because police—don'il police in scotland say we don't newe— police in scotland say we don't newe enewgn— police in scotland say we don't have enough police to enforce inie— have enough police to enforce inie tning— have enough police to enforce this thing because we don't neeiw— this thing because we don't neeiw knew—

this thing because we don't really know what the scope is going— really know what the scope is geing ie— really know what the scope is geing ie we. — really know what the scope is going to be. but— really know what the scope is going to be. but here in ineienei— going to be. but here in ireland, we— going to be. but here in ireland, we nearly 500 ireland, we have nearly 500 ee—eeiiei— ireland, we have nearly 500 so—called diversity police einieene— so—called diversity police officers trained - so—called diversity police officers trained and ready to 90-— officers trained and ready to ge. ani— officers trained and ready to ge. ani ine— officers trained and ready to go. and the police commissioner newe— go. and the police commissioner nene teete— go. and the police commissioner nene teeee en— go. and the police commissioner here keeps on saying , go. and the police commissioner here keeps on saying, you go. and the police commissioner here keeps on saying , you know, here keeps on saying, you know, we need— here keeps on saying, you know, we need inie. — here keeps on saying, you know, we need this. he— here keeps on saying, you know, we need this. he talks about it new— we need this. he talks about it eiewi 5— we need this. he talks about it eiewi 5 en— we need this. he talks about it about 5 or 600— we need this. he talks about it about 5 or 600 hate crimes last ween— about 5 or 600 hate crimes last ween. nwi— about 5 or 600 hate crimes last year. but actually,— about 5 or 600 hate crimes last year. but actually, when you wewe— year. but actually, when you iewe inne— year. but actually, when you delve into those— year. but actually, when you delve into those figures , you delve into those figures, you iieeewen— delve into those figures, you iieeewen en— delve into those figures, you discover an awful lot of them are so—called_ discover an awful lot of them are so—called hate incidents ine— are so—called hate incidents iiie ine— are so—called hate incidents like the police— are so—called hate incidents like the police record in eniiein— like the police record in britain, where - like the police record in britain, where it's completely ieeei— britain, where it's completely ieeei en— britain, where it's completely ieeei en ine— britain, where it's completely based on the perception of eeneeeiw— based on the perception of somebody that— based on the perception of somebody that a hate incident is inning— somebody that a hate incident is eating piece— somebody that a hate incident is eating eieee .— somebody that a hate incident is taking place . and— somebody that a hate incident is taking place . and it doesn't taking place. and it doesn't even have to— taking place. and it doesn't even have to be,- taking place. and it doesn't even have to be, you who are the ee—eeiiei — even have to be, you who are the so—called victim _ even have to be, you who are the so—called victim of— even have to be, you who are the so—called victim of it. somebody eiee— so—called victim of it. somebody eiee-enew— so—called victim of it. somebody else-report that— so—called victim of it. somebody else report that something else can report that something was-incident.- else can report that something was-incident. so- else can report that something was incident. so this was a hate incident. so this ee—eeiiei— was a hate incident. so this so—called 600— was a hate incident. so this so—called 600 hate incidents are eneeeiw— so—called 600 hate incidents are probably nen— so—called 600 hate incidents are probably not really— so—called 600 hate incidents are probably not really hate at all. ann— probably not really hate at all. ann weie— probably not really hate at all. and we've worked— probably not really hate at all. and we've worked very- probably not really hate at all. and we've worked very hard over here sure that non—crime here to make sure that non—crime hate are no longer hate incidents are no longer a thing because, of course, people were they perceived were claiming it. they perceived prejudice where it didn't exist, and sufficient for and that was sufficient for people have this against people to have this against their . i want ask their name. but i want to ask you this speech which went you about this speech which went viral, pauline viral, which was senator pauline o'reilly just here about o'reilly kind of just here about what what she had to say. i'd

like hear response on like to hear your response on this . can we like to hear your response on this. can we play the clip? when you think about when you thinkyabout it, all law when you think about it, all law all legislation— when you think about it, all law all legislation is— when you think about it, all law all legislation is about the restriction— all legislation is about the restriction of— all legislation is about the restriction of freedom. that's exeetw— restriction of freedom. that's exneew wnat— restriction of freedom. that's exactly what we're doing here, is we are restricting freedom, but we're doing it for the common good. you will see throughout our constitution , throughout our constitution, yes, you have rights, but they are restricted for the common good. everything needs to be balanced. and if your views on other people's identities go to make their lives unsafe, insecure and cause them such deep discomfort that they cannot live in peace, then i believe that it live in peace, then i believe thatitis live in peace, then i believe that it is our job as that it is ourjob as legislators to restrict those freedoms . so restricting the freedoms. so restricting the freedoms. so restricting the freedoms of the population for the common good. where have we newne— the common good. where have we tend inn— the common good. where have we heard that before?— the common good. where have we heard that before? oh,— the common good. where have we heard that before? oh, in- 2" 32 where have we heard that before? oh, in every eingie— heard that before? oh, in every single tyrannical— heard that before? oh, in every single tyrannical regime that's exieteei— single tyrannical regime that's ever existed, can— single tyrannical regime that's ever existed, can the can newiine— ever existed, can the can pauline o'reilly not see that wnen— pauline o'reilly not see that win eie-e— pauline o'reilly not see that what she's advocating for there is authoritarianism ? wick

is authoritarianism? well, i mean, she completely gave the game away because the government itself was trying to minimise what this bill is going to mean in here have in practise. and here we have somebody who's a member of one of coalition parties, in of the coalition parties, in this greens, and she's this case the greens, and she's saying enough somebody saying this enough to somebody who unsafe or insecure and who feels unsafe or insecure and are uncomfortable, utterly subjective terms. and she says, we can't live in a society where people who belong to certain protected groups unsafe, protected groups feel unsafe, insecure or uncomfortable. so to my mind, that shows just how far reaching this bill is potentially going to be. and what's really alarming is the lack of proper debate about it. so there's been some in the upper the senate , but upper house, the senate, but it's obviously less important, just house lords just like your house of lords and so the bill is ultimately going to sail through. there's some small possibility of some kind amendment might kind of amendment that might soften the blow this thing soften the blow of this thing a little bit . and our media here little bit. and our media here have mainly been in favour of it, are silent. our equivalent of the bbc has been nearly utterly silent about it. in fact, the weird thing is here we are in gb news and gb news is

showing more interest in it than our broadcaster is and our national broadcaster is and so most of the opposition to it within ireland has been occurring on social media. so that clip you just showed is had something 2 million something like 2 million views. now, them are because now, a lot of them are because people like you, andrew, retweeted it and like about six weeks ago, we had elon musk coming onto the bill and we also had people like jordan peterson also cottoning on the bill. also cottoning on to the bill. so got these really big so we got these really big figures from overseas saying, hang minute, we've got hang on a minute, we've got a problem in ireland. and the problem in ireland. and the problem in ireland. and the problem in ireland problem by the way, in ireland is used be most is we used to be the most catholic country in the world, and we're kind of moving and now we're kind of moving over most over to being the most politically correct country in ireland. kind of ireland. so we're kind of overcompensating for it. but we're from one type of we're going from one type of authoritarianism in the past to authoritarianism in the past to a form today. i did a brand new form today. i did want to ask you about- want to ask you about that, newn— want to ask you about that, devin-in- want to ask you about that, david,-it does- want to ask you about that, david, it does strike want to ask you about that,- david,-it does strike me david, because it does strike me inni— david, because it does strike me inn-new— david, because it does strike me inei-neei ine- that there is a real the eeiiwien — that there is a real the activism within ireland is far more extreme and aggressive and niiiieni— more extreme and aggressive and niiiieni inan— more extreme and aggressive and militant than you— more extreme and aggressive and militant than you see even over nee.— militant than you see even over nene. ani— militant than you see even over nene. and i— militant than you see even over here. and i wonder— militant than you see even over here. and i wonder to what extent— here. and i wonder to what extent tnat— here. and i wonder to what extent that was— here. and i wonder to what extent that was because you have this extent that was because you have tnie nietenw— extent that was because you have

tnie nietenw et— extent that was because you have this history of catholicism, wnien— this history of catholicism, wnien we— this history of catholicism, which was then— this history of catholicism, which was then sort of swept away— which was then sort of swept away in— which was then sort of swept away in tne— which was then sort of swept away in the public consciousness by away in the public consciousness iw tne— away in the public consciousness iw tne ee— away in the public consciousness iw tne ex— away in the public consciousness by the same sex marriage. and tnat— by the same sex marriage. and we ee— by the same sex marriage. and that since then,— by the same sex marriage. and that since then, you have eetitieiene— that since then, you have politicians and- that since then, you have politicians and the media class in ineient— politicians and the media class in ireland using— politicians and the media class in ireland using terms like wneete— in ireland using terms like unsafe, which— in ireland using terms like unsafe, which is straight out of the unsafe, which is straight out of tie texieen— unsafe, which is straight out of the lexicon of— unsafe, which is straight out of the lexicon of critical social iwetiee— the lexicon of critical social justice. otherwise known as wexeneee— justice. otherwise known as wexeneee . — justice. otherwise known as wokeness . you- justice. otherwise known as wokeness. /n:::n. wokeness. you see, i think ireland is a country because we're a small country. ireland is a country because we're a small country . we're we're a small country. we're extremely consensus driven . and extremely consensus driven. and i think what's turning out in ireland is we kind of only allow oneidea ireland is we kind of only allow one idea at a time. and if you don't go along with that idea, you're cancelled, you're silenced, you're not given platforms. and this happens in all kinds of informal ways, like britain . um, all kinds of informal ways, like britain. um, so all kinds of people now simply don't get ianed people now simply don't get invited to universities anymore to part in debates. um, we to take part in debates. um, we had, by the way, a couple of years ago, richard dawkins was supposed at trinity supposed to speak at trinity college dublin to college dublin due to his society, historical society. society, the historical society. but apparently the oldest debating in the world. debating society in the world. but in uk came in and they but in uk he came in and they disinvited him because a few years he described islam as years ago he described islam as the greatest force for evil in

the greatest force for evil in the world today. so they said, we him. now it's we can't have him. but now it's coming along is so there's all kinds informal ways of kinds of informal ways of censoring people . so now they're censoring people. so now they're going along this going to come along with this bill, which is a formal way to do it. and ironically, a few years ago, ireland got rid of the law the blasphemy, the blasphemy law from constitution . so you from its constitution. so you can blasphemous things about can say blasphemous things about god, but the new form of blasphemy you can't say blasphemy is you can't say blasphemy is you can't say blasphemy a thing. it's like blasphemous things about certain minorities. the ironic thing minorities. so the ironic thing again, is we've replaced this really strict kind of catholic consensus with this extremely strict one. and the same people who kind of were extremely opposed to the church and its dominance are the same people who are introducing a lot of this sort of stuff. and they can see the irony and they can see the standard involved. the double standard involved. david quinn, thank you so much for joining me today. thank you . so i just for joining me today. thank you . se i iwet went— for joining me today. thank you . so i just want to— for joining me today. thank you . so i just want to quickly- " g 2 thank you . so i just want to quickly ask my— . so i just want to quickly ask my genet— . so i just want to quickly ask my eenei etewt— . so i just want to quickly ask my panel about this because i do tint— my panel about this because i do tint it— my panel about this because i do find it interesting,— my panel about this because i do find it interesting, leo. you knew.— find it interesting, leo. you know, scotland _ find it interesting, leo. you know, scotland has passed a einiien— know, scotland has passed a einiien-et— know, scotland has passed a similar-of hate- know, scotland has passed a similar of hate crime bill,

similar kind of hate crime bill, wnien— similar kind of hate crime bill, wnien ie— similar kind of hate crime bill, which is similarly— similar kind of hate crime bill, which is similarly draconian . it which is similarly draconian. it tatte— which is similarly draconian. it. twine—eeeete talks about criminalising people for talks about criminalising people ten-tney— talks about criminalising people ten-tnew-in— talks about criminalising people for-they-in their- talks about criminalising people for they in their own for stuff they say in their own nenee — for stuff they say in their own homes. _about- for stuff they say in their own homes. - about the - for stuff they say in their own homes. about the public for stuff they say in their own homon about the public for stuff they say in their own homon stage. about the public for stuff they say in their own homon stage. on )0ul the public for stuff they say in their own homon stage. on stage ie public for stuff they say in their own homon stage. on stage .t public for stuff they say in their own homon stage. on stage . exactly. and on stage. on stage. exactly. so and on stage. on stage. exactly. se it— and on stage. on stage. exactly. se it eewit— and on stage. on stage. exactly. se it eewit te— and on stage. on stage. exactly. so it could be terrible— and on stage. on stage. exactly. so it could be terrible for- so it could be terrible for comedy in scotland. i mean, because perception led. because it's all perception led. it's, if the victim it's, you know, if the victim or, you know, person who's supposed to the or supposed to be the victim or anybody else perceives something as being hateful, whatever that means , then then it's a hate means, then then it's a hate crime. it's you know, that's and it feels like this is spreading. i mean, dion, he mentioned helen iewee— i mean, dion, he mentioned helen joyce geing— i mean, dion, he mentioned helen joyce geing ee— i mean, dion, he mentioned helen joyce going over there, and weienie— joyce going over there, and helen's been— joyce going over there, and helen's been on- joyce going over there, and helen's been on this show. of course, she raised— helen's been on this show. of course, she raised concern is tnat— course, she raised concern is net ieexing— course, she raised concern is that looking-this- that looking at this legislation, seems that if legislation, it seems that if you— legislation, it seems that if you-a— legislation, it seems that if wew-e teiiet- legislation, it seems that if you-a belief-as. legislation, it seems that if- you-a belief-as helen you have a belief such as helen ieee— you have a belief such as helen ieee-tent— you have a belief such as helen does,-can't change- you have a belief such as helen does, can't change sex, does, that you can't change sex, tnat— does, that you can't change sex, tint-ent— does, that you can't change sex, tnet-ent-ene- does, that you can't change sex,. that-and-are different that men and women are different .tnet— that men and women are different .tnet tnat— that men and women are different , that that could— that men and women are different , that that could end up with a nixe— , that that could end up with a five ween— , that that could end up with a five year prison— , that that could end up with a five year prison sentence . five year prison sentence. ween. — five year prison sentence. yeah, because— five year prison sentence. yeah, because it- five year prison sentence. yeah, because it doesn't align in with the group. think right. and this is absolutely terrifying because as david quinn pointed out and you pointed out , they have not pointed out, they have not defined what hate is. and even though he said, oh, the politician claims this is going to go for the more extremes,

well, then define the extremes. yeah, but that's the problem, is that they never seem to define it scotland has done a it as scotland has done a similar so humza yousaf, similar thing. so humza yousaf, wne— similar thing. so humza yousaf, wne teweieeet— similar thing. so humza yousaf, who developed the— 3 so humza yousaf, who developed the scottish hate nine— who developed the scottish hate enine-teixet— who developed the scottish hate crime talked about crime bill, he talked about etinning— crime bill, he talked about etinning-.- crime bill, he talked about stirring-. yeah,l crime bill, he talked about. stirring-. yeah, but crime bill, he talked about- stirring-. yeah, but he stirring up hatred. yeah, but he e—enneenti stirring up hatred. yeah, but hel e—enneent i never said what hatred meant. i nen—n nete- never said what hatred meant. i. mean,_me hate every mean, people send me hate every day mean, people send me hate every tewlen— mean, people send me hate every tewlen en— mean, people send me hate every tewlen en-veen- mean, people send me hate every day-on on _yeah can. day on on on twitter. yeah can i get— day on on on twitter. yeah can i get-enneetete— day on on on twitter. yeah can i get-arrested? and- day on on on twitter. yeah can i get-arrested? and if- day on on on twitter. yeah can i get arrested? and if not, get them arrested? and if not, why— get them arrested? and if not, wit—witnewgni get them arrested? and if not,- why_although it's why not? probably. although it's reassuring that scotland reassuring to hear that scotland is decent , reassuring to hear that scotland is decent, organised and is so decent, organised and incompetent that they don't actually have the police capacity to deal with it. so we're going to stymied the we're going to be stymied by the reality policing it. but yet reality of policing it. but yet some of the stuff like to make it a crime to misgender someone. i mean, it can pretty hard to i mean, it can be pretty hard to tell somebody gender is tell what somebody gender is these see these days if you can't see their twitter where they've their twitter bio where they've got i think got it in brackets. i think if people to people don't want to be misgendered, make more misgendered, they can make more effort like that gender effort to look like that gender like why am i having to do the transition in head? it's not transition in my head? it's not my transition can at least put some lipstick so you're some lipstick on. so you're saying with beards saying the lesbians with beards that you see online, they should make effort or at make more of an effort or at least get some a shaver? least just get some a shaver? yeah. okay. fair enough, yeah. okay. is that fair enough, nienee— yeah. okay. is that fair enough, nienee ween—

yeah. okay. is that fair enough, nienee ween i— yeah. okay. is that fair enough, diane? yeah i want you to get inwewet— diane? yeah i want you to get inwewet ee— diane? yeah i want you to get involved so you— diane? yeah i want you to get involved so you get in trouble as involved so you get in trouble ee-xit— involved so you get in trouble ee-xii nigtt- involved so you get in trouble as-all right, then- involved so you get in trouble as-all right, then .- involved so you get in troublel as-all right, then . um. as well. all right, then. um. hey, identify me as police phobic . and if the police knock phobic. and if the police knock on your door and they want your password, do you say i'm so sorry, but i am password sharing phobic, and you're committing a hate trying to break hate crime by trying to break into laptop? actually diane, into my laptop? actually diane, actually, serious actually, that's a serious point. if going to say point. if they're going to say tnat— point. if they're going to say that offence _ point. if they're going to say that offence is— point. if they're going to say that offence is the- if they're going to say that offence is the threshold, ent—tw- and if you're offended by eenetning— and if you're offended by. something,_going and if you're offended by- something,_going to something, then we're going to inweetigete. — investigate. you've identified me . you have me as a criminal. you have misidentified me, so you should arrest yourself , sir. well, i do arrest yourself, sir. well, i do find authoritarianism- 2 well, i do find authoritarianism offensive, to find authoritarianism offensive, te te— find authoritarianism offensive, te te neneet.— find authoritarianism offensive, to be honest, because it never wewe— to be honest, because it never wenxe ewt— to be honest, because it never works out, historically eeeexing— works out, historically speaking, does it? anyway let's iet-e— speaking, does it? anyway let's iet-e-en. — speaking, does it? anyway let's let's-on. we've - speaking, does it? anyway let's let's-on. we've got- speaking, does it? anyway let's let's on. we've got to take let's move on. we've got to take a let's move on. we've got to take e tweet.— let's move on. we've got to take e tweet. nwt— let's move on. we've got to take a break. but still— let's move on. we've got to take a break. but still to— let's move on. we've got to take a break. but still to come on, nee— a break. but still to come on, tnee eeeeen— a break. but still to come on, free speech nation, we're going to free speech nation, we're going te—nenl to have mps dance, sing, ben titen— to have mps dance, sing, ben titen nitting— to have mps dance, sing, ben elton hitting out— to have mps dance, sing, ben elton hitting out at rishi sunak and elton hitting out at rishi sunak ent en— elton hitting out at rishi sunak and an elephant— elton hitting out at rishi sunak and an elephant gets a new limb . ite— and an elephant gets a new limb . itie eineet— and an elephant gets a new limb . it's almost time— and an elephant gets a new limb . it's almost time for social eenetiene— . it's almost time for social eenetiene .— . it's almost time for social sensations . don't miss it.

on mark dolan tonight. " on mark dolan tonight , n on mark dolan tonight. " jig on mark dolan tonight. in my big eninien— on mark dolan tonight. in my big opinion, politicians have not been straight with us about the economy, and now we're all paying economy, and now we're all paying the price. when it comes to the nation's finances. we need some tough love. for need some tough love. and for those don't like it, tough those that don't like it, tough luck in my take at ten, why are tories drawing up plans let tories drawing up plans to let children change their sex at school? who's going to stand up to woke madness ? also, to this woke madness? also, seven years on from brexit, have remainers proved remainers been proved wrong? plus, politics legend ann widdecombe, the leader of ukip , widdecombe, the leader of ukip, neil political neil hamilton, and political commentator annunziata rees—mogg. we're live from . rees—mogg. we're live from. nine welcome back to free speech nation. so it's time for social eenetiene— nation. so it's time for social sensations as— nation. so it's time for social sensations as we _ np. iii" so it's time for social sensations as we take me. iii" so it's time for social sensations as we take a \p. p“ so it's time for social sensations as we take a quick teet— sensations as we take a quick teen et— sensations as we take a quick teen et wnat— sensations as we take a quick look at what has— sensations as we take a quick look at what has been breaking the look at what has been breaking tne intennet— look at what has been breaking the internet this— look at what has been breaking the internet this week. so first up the internet this week. so first we ie— the internet this week. so first we ie tnie— the internet this week. so first up is this video— the internet this week. so first up is this video .— the internet this week. so first up is this video . and i'm not up is this video. and i'm not wnat— up is this video. and i'm not sure what this— up is this video. and i'm not sure what this is— up is this video. and i'm not sure what this is about. this up is this video. and i'm not sure what this is about . this is sure what this is about. this is ceneewetiwe— sure what this is about. this is conservative mp— sure what this is about. this is conservative mp peter bone mening— conservative mp peter bone nexing nie— conservative mp peter bone making his tick— conservative mp peter bone making his tick tock debut. tetie— making his tick tock debut. tet-e newe— making his tick tock debut. tet-e newe e—

making his tick tock debut. let's have a look . making his tick tock debut. let's have a look. i'm like, wett— let's have a look. i'm like, weii. i— let's have a look. i'm like, well, i mean,— let's have a look. i'm like, well, i mean, you know, he's a iewew— well, i mean, you know, he's a iewew — well, i mean, you know, he's a lovely mover. no— well, i mean, you know, he's a lovely mover. no he's definitely newe— lovely mover. no he's definitely nete e— lovely mover. no he's definitely nete e titt— lovely mover. no he's definitely made a tick tock_ lovely mover. no he's definitely made a tick tock debut . made a tick tock debut. that's tnwe.— made a tick tock debut. that's tnwe. twt— made a tick tock debut. that's tnwe. but why— made a tick tock debut. that's true. but why are we interested in that kind of thing? why don't it go viral? what's he doing? is there a message there? it seemed like a cross between a dance and getting off by a getting told off by a headteacher. i didn't know headteacher. yeah i didn't know what going on there. have what was going on there. have you my gosh, bring you seen. oh, my gosh, bring back theresa may. i mean, when she did little funny little she did her little funny little robot kind robot strut, that's the kind of thing want. my politicians thing i want. my politicians were-mean about- thing i want. my politicians. were-mean about theresa g my politicians were because ean about theresa g my politicians were because she about theresa g my politicians were because she wasit theresa g my politicians were because she was visiting;a may because she was visiting a group— may because she was visiting a gnewe et— may because she was visiting a grow of pimple— may because she was visiting a group of people dancing group of people who were dancing and group of people who were dancing ent-wet— group of people who were dancing ent-twet enewing- and she was just showing enthusiasm— and she was just showing enthusiasm it enthusiasm for the i thought it weeeewne-gt— enthusiasm for the i thought it was-gesture..was- was a nice gesture. it was a gneet— was a nice gesture. it was a gneet geetwne— was a nice gesture. it was a great gesture, and it was awful. so great gesture, and it was awful. se it— great gesture, and it was awful. se it wee— great gesture, and it was awful. so it was brilliant— great gesture, and it was awful. so it was brilliant in— great gesture, and it was awful. so it was brilliant in both- great gesture, and it was awful. so it was brilliant in both ways because she was being really nice same time i was nice and at the same time i was like, god, theresa, stop like, oh my god, theresa, stop it. this diplomatic it. this is a diplomatic incident. okay, well, look, we're-move on.- incident. okay, well, look,- we're-move on. speaking we're going to move on. speaking of conservative— we're going to move on. speaking of conservative mps, pm rishi swnex— of conservative mps, pm rishi swnex-tne- of conservative mps, pm rishi sunak-the-thisl sunak spoke to the bbc this weekend— sunak spoke to the bbc this weekend-then- sunak spoke to the bbc this weekend then comedian weekend and then comedian ben

titen— weekend and then comedian ben titen-netnen— weekend and then comedian ben elton rather unimpressed. elton was rather unimpressed. tetie— elton was rather unimpressed. tet-e newe— elton was rather unimpressed. tet-e newe e— elton was rather unimpressed. let's have a look— elton was rather unimpressed. let's have a look . ' 2 �*" let's have a look. and if anybody was still watching after that extraordinary orwellian , that extraordinary orwellian, meaningless, evasive salad meaningless, evasive word, salad , meaningless, evasive word, salad i , meaningless, evasive word, salad , i mean, i sort of everybody else wanted to believe and i sort of believed maybe he's kind of a bit more decent, you know, and it turns out he's as much of a mendacious , narcissistic a mendacious, narcissistic sociopath as preview. wow . so sociopath as preview. wow. so he's not pulling— sociopath as preview. wow. so he's not pulling any- wow. so he's not pulling any punches twee.— he's not pulling any punches tnene. ie— he's not pulling any punches there, is he?— he's not pulling any punches there, is he? no,— he's not pulling any punches there, is he? no, no, nothing is a there, is he? no, no, nothing is e tit— there, is he? no, no, nothing is e tit wntein— there, is he? no, no, nothing is a bit unfair on— there, is he? no, no, nothing is a bit unfair on on— there, is he? no, no, nothing is a bit unfair on on rishi. i tinni— a bit unfair on on rishi. i mean, rishi has- a bit unfair on on rishi. i mean, rishi has sort- a bit unfair on on rishi. i mean, rishi has sort of come to power at the wrong time. he's sort of grasped the draft, the reins of a crumbling empire. but but he's not he's not doing a he's a bad job. he's he's not doing a bad job. he's brought stability you brought stability. he's, you know, quite, young know, he's quite, quite young and dapper . he know, he's quite, quite young and dapper. he gets and sort of dapper. he gets photographed next to a zelenskyy a lot, which is they both like that because they're both about a lot, which is they both like that footiuse they're both about a lot, which is they both like that foot eight. ey're both about a lot, which is they both like that foot eight. yeah,)oth about a lot, which is they both like that foot eight. yeah, but about a lot, which is they both like that foot eight. yeah, but yeah,: four foot eight. yeah, but yeah, i think rishi. rishi is not actually he i think it will be remembered as a pretty competent. ithink remembered as a pretty competent. i think you make a wew— competent. i think you make a wew geew— competent. i think you make a wew geet-tixe- competent. i think you make a very good-like he- competent. i think you make a very good-like he has. very good point. like he has innenitet— very good point. like he has inherited situation inherited this awful situation wenne— inherited this awful situation wiene—gietei where, you know, this global recession-out— where, you know, this global recession-out of- where, you know, this global recession out of a recession just out of a pandemic.— recession just out of a pandemic, there's nothing really

he pandemic, there's nothing really ne-ie— pandemic, there's nothing really ne-ieltein— pandemic, there's nothing really ne-ielteinleew- pandemic, there's nothing really he-islfairlsay he. he can do. is it fair to say he is_narcissistic. he can do. is it fair to say he. is_narcissistic and is mendacious, narcissistic and eeeie— is mendacious, narcissistic and eetniee— is mendacious, narcissistic and eetniee i— is mendacious, narcissistic and socio pathic? i mean, ben elton is socio pathic? i mean, ben elton ie tiegneee— socio pathic? i mean, ben elton is diagnose ing— socio pathic? i mean, ben elton is diagnose ing him there, which i is is diagnose ing him there, which i-ieltit— is diagnose ing him there, which i-ieltit nwen.— is diagnose ing him there, which i-islbit much. i- is diagnose ing him there, which i is bit much. i think i think is a bit much. i think eeeieeetnie— i think is a bit much. i think sociopathic is— i think is a bit much. i think sociopathic is a— i think is a bit much. i think sociopathic is a bit much. ' 2 sociopathic is a bit much. and i tninx— sociopathic is a bit much. and i tninx ite— sociopathic is a bit much. and i tninx itie e— sociopathic is a bit much. and i think it's a little— sociopathic is a bit much. and i think it's a little bit hypocritical for to oh hypocritical for him to say, oh well word salad and then well he and word salad and then he in million syllables he throws in a million syllables and afterwards, it's and each word afterwards, it's like, just did the same like, sir, you just did the same thing. but ben, thing. and i'm sorry, but ben, elton been completely elton has never been completely truthful he is. i was truthful with who he is. i was very disappointed because i saw ben i was a much ben elton when i was a much younger up was younger stand up and he was there. like this on there. oh, i talk like this on stage i talk and stage and i talk like this. and then saw him have an actual then i saw him have an actual interview he like this interview and he spoke like this the really. i was the whole time. really. i was like, no, no, no. and like, no, no, no, no, no. and i felt heartbroken that he wasn't the person was stage. the person who was on stage. well, i mean, used to he well, i mean, he used to he used to well, i mean, he used to he used te nent— well, i mean, he used to he used to rant-thatcher— well, i mean, he used to he used to rant-thatcher all- well, i mean, he used to he used to rant thatcher all the to rant about thatcher all the time — to rant about thatcher all the time wew— to rant about thatcher all the time. very famously. but then he teeene— time. very famously. but then he became gwite— time. very famously. but then he became quite tory,— time. very famously. but then he became quite tory, didn't he? ween.— became quite tory, didn't he? yeah._comedians,| yeah. and also all comedians, even they they're even though they when they're on stage, oh stage, they're like, oh i'm so socialist, wing. socialist, i'm so left wing. i believe in sharing everything. i'm oh, please. like i'm a nice guy. oh, please. like me. like me. in reality, me. please like me. in reality, they're all self—starting. they're all total self—starting. thatcher like entrepreneurs going work going out and hustling for work in i mean, they in a free market. i mean, they get cash, they stick it

get paid cash, they stick it under the mattress they under the mattress and they don't tax it because they don't pay tax in it because they want they'd that want to. they'd rather keep that money than the money for themselves than the nhs. kidney machine. nhs. get another kidney machine. yeah. we this yeah. we love comedians on this enegnenne— yeah. we love comedians on this enegnenne-wee— yeah. we love comedians on this programme,-we? and- i/ppi" we love comedians on this programme, we? and not programme, don't we? and not bitten— programme, don't we? and not tittenleii. — programme, don't we? and not bitter. all. _finally,- bitter at all. okay finally, tnie— bitter at all. okay finally,- tnie—wnien this heartwarming video which has—millions- has been viewed millions of tinee— has been viewed millions of tinee-tne- has been viewed millions of times the wonders of times showing the wonders of neetnn— times showing the wonders of netenn—ie- times showing the wonders of netenn—ie enl modern science. this is an eieenent— modern science. this is an eieenent-e- modern science. this is an elephant a prosthetic foot elephant using a prosthetic foot etewt— elephant using a prosthetic foot etewt te— elephant using a prosthetic foot etewt te ge— elephant using a prosthetic foot etewt te ge ewt— elephant using a prosthetic foot about to go put it— elephant using a prosthetic foot about to go put it on tuk. the asian— about to go put it on tuk. the asian elephant. _ about to go put it on tuk. the asian elephant. follow me. tuk sadly lost his foot to a snare when he was young and was rescued by the wildlife alliance and lives at their rescue centre in so the team provide in cambodia. so the team provide him a prosthetic for every six months, which my family charity, paradise wildlife park, donates. the funds for. and there you have a prosthetic have it, a prosthetic foot for chook , the asian elephant. and chook, the asian elephant. and now able to walk, run and now he's able to walk, run and swim freely without any pain . swim freely without any pain. oh, that's very sweet, isn't it, leot— oh, that's very sweet, isn't it, tee. wee— oh, that's very sweet, isn't it, tee. yoe geing— oh, that's very sweet, isn't it, leo, you're going to say eenetning— leo, you're going to say something cynical, no doubt. no not something cynical, no doubt. no net- — something cynical, no doubt. no net- we.— something cynical, no doubt. no net- in i— something cynical, no doubt. no net- in i-we- not at all. no, i think we should have a paralympics for elephants now, this is to elephants now, this is going to be think i would be great. i think i would actually that. i'm just actually watch that. i'm just i'm amazed that somebody i'm just amazed that somebody thought his thought they could. he got his foot a snare. he's foot caught in a snare. he's trying elephants a

trying to catch elephants with a snare. that's i mean, because oncei snare. that's i mean, because once i it was designed for once i think it was designed for the was think he the elephant, was it i think he accidentally his foot in accidentally put his foot in another snare. oh, another kind of snare. oh, right. i imagine so.- right. i imagine so. the guyl right. i imagine so. the guy- enee—in tne comes, finds the elephant in the ee—t- comes, finds the elephant in the enene—te-witni snare and then has to deal with tnie— snare and then has to deal with this-elephant. - snare and then has to deal with this-elephant. i- snare and then has to deal with this elephant. 2 " . this massive elephant. i don't tninx— this massive elephant. i don't think happened think that's what happened there. what you. well, there. what do you. well, i i— there. what do you. well, i mean, i think— there. what do you. well, i mean, i think it's- ”n.pp; what do you. well, i mean, i think it's a .“pip; what do you. well, i mean, i think it's a lovely etew. — mean, i think it's a lovely etenw. ant— mean, i think it's a lovely etenw. and i— mean, i think it's a lovely story. and i like- mean, i think it's a lovely story. ' “2 . 2 story. and i like when human beings involved in beings get involved in nature in this i have been this way. like i have been campaigning years to build campaigning for years to build steps penguins. campaigning for years to build steps penguins . and i think steps for penguins. and i think that we should really thank you, sir. i think we should get involved in nature like when we see like animals fighting just break it up. give them a little bit yeah > calm down, bit of food. yeah > calm down, iete. — bit of food. yeah > calm down, iete. _wenw— bit of food. yeah > calm down, iete. _wenw-it- bit of food. yeah > calm down, lads.-worry-it. it's. lads. don't worry about it. it's net—nixe— lads. don't worry about it. it's not-give them- lads. don't worry about it. it'sl not-give them some not worth it. give them some vegan yeah, look. vegan sausages. yeah, look. there we go. lion. didn't there we go. mr lion. i didn't know you were such a philanthropist. oh, well, that's iewew. — philanthropist. oh, well, that's lovely- enew— philanthropist. oh, well, that's lovely. okay, well,— philanthropist. oh, well, that's lovely. okay, well, look,- oh, well, that's lovely. okay, well, look, this is lovely. okay, well, look, this ie tne— lovely. okay, well, look, this ie tne eent— lovely. okay, well, look, this ie tne gent ei— lovely. okay, well, look, this is the part of the— lovely. okay, well, look, this is the part of the show where we tett— is the part of the show where we tett-wew— is the part of the show where we talk your unfiltered talk through your unfiltered tiiennee— talk through your unfiltered. dilemmas._much talk through your unfiltered- dilemmas._much for dilemmas. thank you so much for eneiiing— dilemmas. thank you so much for eneiiing-eiwewe- emailing in, as you always do. on— emailing in, as you always do. our-dilemma— emailing in, as you always do. our dilemma from our first dilemma comes from eeengine.— georgina, who says, hello, antnew. — georgina, who says, hello,l antnew. _ww andrew. hello, georgina. my surname—but. andrew. hello, georgina. my| surname—but my surname is da silva, but my iieneeie— surname is da silva, but my fiance's surname— surname is da silva, but my fiance's surname is piles. he ewe— fiance's surname is piles. he eewe we— fiance's surname is piles. he eewe we een-t— fiance's surname is piles. he eewe we cant get— fiance's surname is piles. he says we can't get married if i went— says we can't get married if i went ttte— says we can't get married if i don't take his— says we can't get married if i don't take his surname , but

don't take his surname, but i een-t— don't take his surname, but i cant inning— don't take his surname, but i can't bring myself to become eeengine— can't bring myself to become georgina piles.— can't bring myself to become georgina piles. what should i tee— georgina piles. what should i tee wett— georgina piles. what should i tee weii. i— georgina piles. what should i do? well, i mean, if you love him:— do? well, i mean, if you love him, i— do? well, i mean, if you love hm, i gweee— do? well, i mean, if you love him, i guess you— do? well, i mean, if you love him, i guess you take the name. if him, i guess you take the name. it ne— him, i guess you take the name. it we tewee— him, i guess you take the name. if he loves her,— him, i guess you take the name. if he loves her, why— him, i guess you take the name. if he loves her, why is he fencing— if he loves her, why is he neneing nen— if he loves her, why is he forcing her to? - if he loves her, why is he forcing her to? my; if he loves her, why is he forcing her to? i“pp; p“ forcing her to? there's an obvious solution for both of them. piles of silver. it's brilliant . yeah. piles of brilliant. yeah. piles of silver. silver? yeah okay. that would work. yeah. we've solved that. perfect. let's move on to. yeah welcome. georgina. yeah you're welcome. georgina. the from morgan . the next one is from morgan. now, morgan says yesterday at work, i was walking down a long corridor and a colleague ahead held door for me. when i got held the door for me. when i got to i said, thank to the door, i said, thank you. however, colleague raised however, my colleague raised their eyebrows and muttered, took rude not took your time. is it rude not to speed up when you see someone holding a door open for you? i just hate. i kind of think, just leave me alone. get out of my life. like if i'm walking towards the door, someone's and i've faster to get i've got to walk faster to get to i just i'd rather to the door. i just i'd rather they just just went away. they just got just went away. yeah. really annoys me because eetweiiw— actually, doors aren't that titiiewit— actually, doors aren't that difficult- no - actually, doors aren't that difficult-no ,l actually, doors aren't that difficult-no , i| actually, doors aren't that. difficult-no , i can actually, doors aren't that- difficult-no , i can do difficult to open. no, i can do it myself. they're very much designed to opened closed designed to be opened and closed by yeah. how dare by a person. yeah. how dare these by a person. yeah. how dare

tneee eeetie— “ i/ppi“ how dare these people patronise us? . these people patronise us? it's these people patronise us? it's tne—ewe— these people patronise us? it's the-eye contact,- the issue with eye contact, though. you have eye though. if. if you have made eye contact that contact with the person, that person gone. i acknowledge person has gone. i acknowledge your existence. you've acknowledged oh acknowledged their existence. oh my is too far my god. the door is too far away. not speeding up. away. they're not speeding up. and now it looks i've and now it looks like i've slammed door in your face. slammed the door in your face. so you should is just so what? you should do is just net— so what? you should do is just net-tentnt- so what? you should do is just not-contact. just.- so what? you should do is just not contact. just. just not make eye contact. just. just mete—ieexingl make eye contact by looking newn— make eye contact by looking tewn-oxew- make eye contact by looking down. okay, that. down. blinkers okay, that. solve tnat— down. blinkers okay, that. solve tnet—tnente- down. blinkers okay, that. solve that—thanks for. that one. well, look, thanks for ieining— that one. well, look, thanks for ieininglien— that one. well, look, thanks for joining-for free— that one. well, look, thanks for joining for free speech joining us for free speech wetien. — joining us for free speech nation. .was- joining us for free speech nation. .was when nation. this was the week when twi— nation. this was the week when bud—themselves- nation. this was the week whenl bud _themselveslpat bud light gave themselves a pat on bud light gave themselves a pat en-teex— bud light gave themselves a pat en-teex ten— bud light gave themselves a pat on-back for losing- bud light gave themselves a pat on back for losing $20 on the back for losing $20 niiiien— on the back for losing $20 billion islands— on the back for losing $20 billion islands draconian hate eeeeen—tit- billion islands draconian hate speech—bit closer speech bill edged a bit closer to speech bill edged a bit closer te-ent— speech bill edged a bit closer to-and everyone- speech bill edged a bit closer to and everyone was to reality and everyone was twining— to reality and everyone was talking about— to reality and everyone was talking about cats in schools . talking about cats in schools. inenx— talking about cats in schools. inenx wew— talking about cats in schools. inenx wew te— talking about cats in schools. thank you to my— talking about cats in schools. thank you to my panel. diane seeneen— thank you to my panel. diane seeneen ent— thank you to my panel. diane spencer and leo— thank you to my panel. diane spencer and leo kearse and to all spencer and leo kearse and to wit ei— spencer and leo kearse and to wit ei nw— spencer and leo kearse and to all of my guests— spencer and leo kearse and to all of my guests this evening. ant— all of my guests this evening. ant ii— all of my guests this evening. ant it wew— all of my guests this evening. and if you want— all of my guests this evening. and if you want to join us live in tne— and if you want to join us live in the studio— and if you want to join us live in the studio and— and if you want to join us live in the studio and be part of our wentenwi— in the studio and be part of our wonderful audience, you wonderful studio audience, you een—ge— wonderful studio audience, you een—ge te- wonderful studio audience, you een—ge te ww- wonderful studio audience, you can—go to ww dot can do that. just go to ww dot sno— can do that. just go to ww dot sro audiences.com that's there on sro audiences.com that's there en tne— sro audiences.com that's there en tne eee— sro audiences.com that's there on the screen right now . come on the screen right now. come eieng— on the screen right now. come eteng stew— on the screen right now. come along stay tuned— on the screen right now. come along stay tuned by the way for the brilliant— along stay tuned by the way for the brilliant mark— along stay tuned by the way for the brilliant mark dolan tonight tittie— the brilliant mark dolan tonight tnetie-we— the brilliant mark dolan tonight tnetie-we-ant- that's coming up next. and eieeee— that's coming up next. and please-forget- that's coming up next. and please forget the please don't forget the headliners— please don't forget the headliners every night please don't forget the - headliners-every night at headliners is on every night at new. — headliners is on every night at new. inn-e— headliners is on every night at 11:00. that's the— headliners is on every night at 11:00. that's the late night paper— 11:00. that's the late night eeeen enewiew— 11:00. that's the late night paper preview where paper preview show where eeneitene— paper preview show where comedians take you through the next— comedians take you through the next-tee— comedians take you through the

next-top stories- comedians take you through the next-top stories .- comedians take you through the next top stories . thanks next day's top stories. thanks for next day's top stories. thanks ten-nee— next day's top stories. thanks for-free speech - next day's top stories. thanks. for-free speech nation for watching. free speech nation .-next— for watching. free speech nation .-next week— for watching. free speech nation .-next week .— for watching. free speech nation .-next week . hello- . see you next week. hello tnene. — . see you next week. hello tnene. in— . see you next week. hello there. i'm jonathan- . see you next week. hello there. . see you next week. hello- there. i'm jonathan vautrey. who is your latest gb news weather forecast provided by the met office after a very warm, hot, even weekend , there are signs of even weekend, there are signs of a change on the way into the new working week behind this cold front and winds are shifting more to a westerly direction. that's helping to feed in some less humid and slightly fresher air across the uk. whilst this cold front is still with us, though, there is still the chance of some heavy outbreaks of northeast england of rain across northeast england and scotland and northeast scotland throughout of throughout the start of this overnight but turning to overnight period. but turning to turn for everyone apart turn drier for everyone apart from a few showers across the far north—west. with those far north—west. but with those fresher conditions in place, temperatures will be a notch lower than last night, generally falling down to 12, 14 c. so a little bit more comfortable for sleeping for many of us monday. then sees a lot of sunny intervals to start off the day, but we'll start to see some showers bubbling up for late morning into the afternoon, particularly across the northern

half could be heavy with half. those could be heavy with a few thunderstorms in as a few thunderstorms in there as well. central southern well. wales central southern areas england largely staying areas of england largely staying dry sunny spells . dry with some sunny spells. noticeably fresher, though, for a lot of us. temperatures generally around the high teens in the northwest close towards low 20s. further towards low or mid 20s. further towards the south and east. the showers will die off as we head into monday evening and allow relatively fine end to the day. but come the second half of the night, we're going a band night, we're going to see a band of push its way into of rain push its way into northern and it then northern ireland and it then becomes damp start for western becomes a damp start for western scotland, and scotland, northern england and into . and that rain will into wales. and that rain will continue to through during continue to push through during the persistent and the day. the most persistent and heavy for of heavy bursts for parts of north—west scotland, north—west england north—west wales. it england and north—west wales. it will patchier further to will turn patchier further to the east and actually southern areas england towards areas of england towards the south—east may stay dry throughout day, still throughout the day, but still rather cloudy compared to of late. rain continues to late. that rain continues to push its way through, but there's weather fronts there's further weather fronts and systems waiting and low pressure systems waiting in out in the atlantic in the wings out in the atlantic to bring us relatively unsettled conditions throughout rest conditions throughout the rest of so further rain at

of the week. so further rain at times, temperatures around the high teens to 20s by.

by by late. it's 9:00 on television, late on radio and online in the unhed on radio and online in the united kingdom and across the world. this is mark dolan ienignt— world. this is mark dolan ienignt in— world. this is mark dolan ienignt in nw— 2 this is mark dolan tonight in my big opinion, eeiitieiene— tonight in my big opinion, politicians have not been etneignt— politicians have not been straight with— politicians have not been straight with us about the eenet— straight with us about the economy and— straight with us about the economy and now we're all paying the economy and now we're all paying tne enee— economy and now we're all paying tne eniee .— economy and now we're all paying the price . britain— economy and now we're all paying the price . britain is— economy and now we're all paying the price . britain is broke , but the price. britain is broke, but i'll the price. britain is broke, but iiii te— the price. britain is broke, but i'll be telling— the price. britain is broke, but i'll be telling you how we fix it. inw— i'll be telling you how we fix it. my nent— i'll be telling you how we fix it. my mark meets guest is a ewwiwen— it. my mark meets guest is a ewwiwen en— it. my mark meets guest is a ewwiwen en t— it. my mark meets guest is a survivor on a 1986 pan am flight wneee— survivor on a 1986 pan am flight wneee tite— survivor on a 1986 pan am flight whose life was— survivor on a 1986 pan am flight whose life was spared by a tenneniet— whose life was spared by a terrorist on— whose life was spared by a terrorist on board. he reveals why— terrorist on board. he reveals wnw ent— terrorist on board. he reveals why ent teiie— terrorist on board. he reveals why and tells his— terrorist on board. he reveals why and tells his incredible etew— why and tells his incredible etenw teiene— why and tells his incredible story before the— why and tells his incredible story before the end of the

new. — story before the end of the new. ine— story before the end of the new. ine gww— story before the end of the hour. the guy is- story before the end of the hour. the guy is a walking