in russia, the coup that wasn't really a coup. did you see all the drama there? well, now some are saying that putin has got a weakness and it's time for the west to go all in final push to help ukraine win the war. do we? the uk needs to do whatever it takes.is the uk needs to do whatever it takes. is this an opportunity or quite frankly, is it nothing to do with us and rishi sunak has been hinting that he might not follow the peer review bodies this time when it comes to pubuc this time when it comes to public sector pay. should he should the public sector get good pay rises or do we all need

to tighten our belts? and prince william, homeless nurse, he reckons he's going to try and end it. five year plan. that's what he's got. is it possible to ever get rid of homelessness once and for all? i want to talk foreign aid. is it being abused ? according to oxfam, they say yes . not really sure why. we yes. not really sure why. we want to listen to oxfam, quite frankly, but never say never. and out tonight, the figures we now know send someone over to now know to send someone over to rwanda. to cost us rwanda. it's going to cost us almost £170,000. is that a good use of our money or not? and churchill, why does it keep getting called a white suprem assist? is it time to stop judging historical figures with a lens of modern day society and of course, there's a meeting dunng of course, there's a meeting during the show about scampton is that going to be the destination when it comes to migrants? we'll have it all. joining me tonight, alex dean and fresh from prison. yes, you heard me right, peter hitchens, before we get into it all, let's bnng before we get into it all, let's bring ourselves up to speed with

the . news michelle, thank you. the. news michelle, thank you. good— the. news michelle, thank you. good evening.— the. news michelle, thank you. good evening. the— \ michelle, thank you. good evening. the top story tonight— good evening. the top story tonight on— good evening. the top story tonight on gb— good evening. the top story tonight on gb news, the head of the wagner— tonight on gb news, the head of the wagner mercenary group that launched— the wagner mercenary group that launched an— the wagner mercenary group that launched an attempted military coup— launched an attempted military coup in— launched an attempted military coup in russia— launched an attempted military coup in russia at— launched an attempted military coup in russia at the weekend coyo— coup in russia at the weekend says he— coup in russia at the weekend coyc ho dun-c— coup in russia at the weekend says he didn't want to overthrow putin.— says he didn't want to overthrow puuu. m— says he didn't want to overthrow putin. in speaking— says he didn't want to overthrow putin. in speaking for the first come— putin. in speaking for the first time unco— putin. in speaking for the first time since the— putin. in speaking for the first time since the group's march to moscow— time since the group's march to moc vcvgcny— time since the group's march to moscow, yevgeny prigozhin says the moscow, yevgeny prigozhin says mo mucu— moscow, yevgeny prigozhin says the march showed— moscow, yevgeny prigozhin says the march showed serious cccuucy— the march showed serious security problems in the country and m— security problems in the country and m on— security problems in the country and in an audio— security problems in the country and in an audio message released on mc— and in an audio message released on ms cctcgcom — and in an audio message released on his telegram account, the mecenary group— on his telegram account, the mercenary group leader added onen— mercenary group leader added one no— mercenary group leader added that his troops— mercenary group leader added that his troops turned around to avoid— that his troops turned around to none spilling— that his troops turned around to avoid spilling the— that his troops turned around to avoid spilling the blood of russian— avoid spilling the blood of russian soldiers . president russian soldiers. president nunn— russian soldiers. president putin didn't— russian soldiers. president putin didn't mention the mutiny unen— putin didn't mention the mutiny unen speaking— putin didn't mention the mutiny when speaking to— putin didn't mention the mutiny when speaking to young engineers at a when speaking to young engineers on o nonun — when speaking to young engineers at a forum earlier— when speaking to young engineers at a forum earlier today, but nece— at a forum earlier today, but nene one— at a forum earlier today, but here the foreign— at a forum earlier today, but here the foreign secretary, unec— here the foreign secretary, james cleverly,— here the foreign secretary, james cleverly, said the rebellion— james cleverly, said the rebellion has- james cleverly, said the rebellion has shown the world onen— rebellion has shown the world one mucou— rebellion has shown the world that russia is— rebellion has shown the world that russia is not— rebellion has shown the world that russia is not as strong as previously— that russia is not as strong as was previously thought at nogoznn-c— was previously thought at rogozhin's rebellion is an unprecedented challenge to president— unprecedented challenge to president putin's authority, and it president putin's authority, and m n— president putin's authority, and m m d...— president putin's authority, and it is clear that— president putin's authority, and it is clear that cracks are emerging— it is clear that cracks are enengmg m— it is clear that cracks are emerging in the russian support for me—

emerging in the russian support for me mon— emerging in the russian support for me — emerging in the russian support for me n— emerging in the russian support for the war. i, of— emerging in the russian support for the war. ntnin. emerging in the russian support for the war. £n1. 1: for the war. i, of course, hold no candle for prigozhin or his forces. they have committed atrocity in ukraine and elsewhere, but he has said out loud what we have believed since the start of russia's full scale invasion, that this invasion was both unjustified and unprovoked . james cleverly well, the conne— james cleverly well, the former president of ukraine, meno— former president of ukraine, petro poroshenko , told gb news petro poroshenko, told gb news nuchnc— petro poroshenko, told gb news nuchnc no— petro poroshenko, told gb news russians now view— petro poroshenko, told gb news russians now view president nunn— russians now view president nunm ounc— russians now view president putin quite differently . putin quite differently. the eunu— putin quite differently. the nucm mage— putin quite differently. the putin image in— putin quite differently. the putin image in russia is invulnerable . leader is invulnerable. leader is completely destroyed . the whole completely destroyed. the whole world understand who is the putin. but now many people understand it. in russia . and understand it. in russia. and with that situation , i think with that situation, i think that the armed forces of ukraine definitely use this opportunity to increase their efficiency and intensiveness of our counteroffensive. and receive the certain support in results . the certain support in results. well, in news here at home, a

man in his 30s has died after being stabbed on a tram in nottingham. the attack in mononu— nottingham. the attack in nocnono m— nottingham. the attack in basford in the— nottingham. the attack in basford in the north- 111 go?“ the attack in basford in the north of \1111 13?“ the attack in basford in the north of the \1111 1131311“ the attack in basford in the north of the city noppeneo— basford in the north of the city happened around— basford in the north of the city happened around 11:00 this nonnmg. — happened around 11:00 this nonnmg. a— happened around 11:00 this morning. a man has been arrested on cucn1c1on— morning. a man has been arrested on cucn1c1ono1— morning. a man has been arrested on suspicion of murder and an mouecn— on suspicion of murder and an mouecn moc— on suspicion of murder and an inquest was told— on suspicion of murder and an inquest was told today that mcom— inquest was told today that nicola bulley_ inquest was told today that nicola bulley died as a result of nicola bulley died as a result on unconne— nicola bulley died as a result of drowning and— nicola bulley died as a result of drowning and there was no evmence— of drowning and there was no evidence she'd— of drowning and there was no evidence she'd been harmed. the nomen— evidence she'd been harmed. the nomen on— evidence she'd been harmed. the nomen of mo — evidence she'd been harmed. the mother of two disappeared in january— mother of two disappeared in january unnec— mother of two disappeared in january whilst out walking her dog mong— january whilst out walking her dog along me— january whilst out walking her dog along the river wyre in unconne— dog along the river wyre in lancashire. her— dog along the river wyre in lancashire. her body was found mee— lancashire. her body was found mnee weeke— lancashire. her body was found three weeks later. _ lancashire. her body was found three weeks later. a home office ponno1og1cn— three weeks later. a home office pathologist told _ three weeks later. a home office pathologist told the inquest she noon-1— pathologist told the inquest she noon-1 been— pathologist told the inquest she hadn't been drinking before her menn— hadn't been drinking before her oeom onu— hadn't been drinking before her death and other— hadn't been drinking before her death and other experts giving evmence— death and other experts giving evidence said— death and other experts giving evidence said the river was just four— evidence said the river was just four degrees— evidence said the river was just four degrees and— evidence said the river was just four degrees and almost freezing and mnomng— four degrees and almost freezing and inhaling just— four degrees and almost freezing and inhaling just two breaths of none— and inhaling just two breaths of none uoum— and inhaling just two breaths of water would have— and inhaling just two breaths of water would have been lethal . water would have been lethal. ponce— water would have been lethal. police searching— water would have been lethal. police searching for a woman in acetone— police searching for a woman in derbyshire have— police searching for a woman in derbyshire have found a body at a derbyshire have found a body at o mono— derbyshire have found a body at o lavbv neon— derbyshire have found a body at a layby near chesterfield and sonn— a layby near chesterfield and sarah henshall_ a layby near chesterfield and sarah henshall disappeared more men— sarah henshall disappeared more mon o— sarah henshall disappeared more mon o week— sarah henshall disappeared more than a week ago.— sarah henshall disappeared more than a week ago. she was last on— than a week ago. she was last on me— than a week ago. she was last seen at her home— than a week ago. she was last seen at her home in ilkeston. ponce— seen at her home in ilkeston. nomce coy— seen at her home in ilkeston. police say they— seen at her home in ilkeston. police say they believe the bony.— police say they believe the bony. uncn— police say they believe the body, which was discovered on

the body, which was discovered on me new— body, which was discovered on me new m— body, which was discovered on the a697 is that— body, which was discovered on the a697 is that of the 31 year mo.— the a697 is that of the 31 year me. me— the a697 is that of the 31 year old. her family's— the a697 is that of the 31 year old. her family's been informed. nececnvec— old. her family's been informed. detectives have— old. her family's been informed. detectives have been granted mne— detectives have been granted mme no— detectives have been granted more time to question a man unoc— more time to question a man once been— more time to question a man who's been arrested on suspicion of nnuneno— who's been arrested on suspicion of nnunenu .— who's been arrested on suspicion of ume . ano— who's been arrested on suspicion of murder . and police have of murder. and police have confirmed— of murder. and police have confirmed that— of murder. and police have confirmed that human remains muno— confirmed that human remains nouno m— confirmed that human remains found in balmain_ confirmed that human remains found in balmain earlier this monon— found in balmain earlier this nonm wee— found in balmain earlier this month were those of chloe mmcnem. — month were those of chloe mitchell. the _ month were those of chloe mitchell. the 21- month were those of chloe mitchell. the 21 year old went missing— mitchell. the 21 year old went missing on— mitchell. the 21 year old went missing on june— mitchell. the 21 year old went missing on june the third and ene— missing on june the third and one sparked_ missing on june the third and one sparked o— missing on june the third and she sparked a national operation.— she sparked a national operation. two men have been cnomeo— operation. two men have been cnomeo m— operation. two men have been charged in relation to her nume— charged in relation to her nume .— charged in relation to her murder . the— charged in relation to her murder. the boss of an organised cmne— murder. the boss of an organised group— murder. the boss of an organised crime group which— murder. the boss of an organised crime group which smuggled nunoneoc— crime group which smuggled hundreds of— crime group which smuggled hundreds of people in and out of the hundreds of people in and out of me mm— hundreds of people in and out of me mm noc— hundreds of people in and out of the uk has been— hundreds of people in and out of the uk has been jailed for ten onu— the uk has been jailed for ten and o— the uk has been jailed for ten and o nou— the uk has been jailed for ten and a half years.— the uk has been jailed for ten and a half years. mohamed mukncon— and a half years. mohamed mukhtar hussain was arrested in may— mukhtar hussain was arrested in mow 2021.— mukhtar hussain was arrested in may 2021, following a national cune— may 2021, following a national cnne agency— may 2021, following a national crime agency investigation when he crime agency investigation when ne ume— crime agency investigation when m nenmo— crime agency investigation when he was behind a— crime agency investigation when he was behind a london based group— he was behind a london based group wnrcn— he was behind a london based group which used— he was behind a london based group which used a network of torn— group which used a network of lorry mrwerc— group which used a network of lorry drivers to _ group which used a network of lorry drivers to move people me— lorry drivers to move people across the channel. they mctuoeo— across the channel. they included a _ across the channel. they included a number of fugitives fleeing— included a number of fugitives meemg me— included a number of fugitives fleeing the uk— included a number of fugitives fleeing the uk who were wanted for fleeing the uk who were wanted 1or cenouc— fleeing the uk who were wanted for serious crimes— fleeing the uk who were wanted for serious crimes such as child muse— for serious crimes such as child abuse onu— for serious crimes such as child abuse and murder— for serious crimes such as child abuse and murder. the world's econo—

abuse and murder. the world's second largest— abuse and murder. the world's second largest cinema chain, cmeworm— second largest cinema chain, cmeworm .— second largest cinema chain, cineworld , has— second largest cinema chain, cineworld , has announced it's cineworld, has announced it's going— cineworld, has announced it's going to— cineworld, has announced it's gomg to me— cineworld, has announced it's going to file for— cineworld, has announced it's going to file for administer monon— going to file for administer econon m— going to file for administer station in the— going to file for administer station in the uk. the move , set station in the uk. the move, set to coke— station in the uk. the move, set 1o1oke proce— station in the uk. the move, set to take place next— station in the uk. the move, set to take place next month, is part— to take place next month, is porn on— to take place next month, is porn on o— to take place next month, is part of a financial restructuring plan . part of a financial— restructuring plan . shareholders restructuring plan. shareholders will therefore _ restructuring plan. shareholders will therefore be— restructuring plan. shareholders will therefore be affected. but the will therefore be affected. but me companyr_ will therefore be affected. but the company, which has more than 100 the company, which has more than too mernceo— the company, which has more than 100 cinemas across— the company, which has more than 100 cinemas across the uk and retent— 100 cinemas across the uk and reteno. ew— 100 cinemas across the uk and ireland, say their— 100 cinemas across the uk and ireland, say their venues will continue— ireland, say their venues will continue to— ireland, say their venues will continue to operate as usual . continue to operate as usual. ano— continue to operate as usual. mm me— continue to operate as usual. and the prince— continue to operate as usual. and the prince of— continue to operate as usual. and the prince of wales has meow— and the prince of wales has today launched— and the prince of wales has today launched an initiative unen— today launched an initiative errneo m— today launched an initiative aimed at ending homelessness . aimed at ending homelessness. mince— aimed at ending homelessness. prince william's— aimed at ending homelessness. prince william's five year protect— prince william's five year project called _ prince william's five year project called homeward us, aims to project called homeward us, aims 1o nuke— project called homeward us, aims to make muen— project called homeward us, aims to make rough sleeping a thing of to make rough sleeping a thing on me— to make rough sleeping a thing on me poet— to make rough sleeping a thing on me poet .— to make rough sleeping a thing of the past, initially focusing on ex— of the past, initially focusing on ex mcm— of the past, initially focusing on six local towns, local puemeeeee— on six local towns, local businesses will be asked to mewetop— businesses will be asked to develop action— businesses will be asked to develop action plans with up to £500,000— develop action plans with up to esooooo m— develop action plans with up to £500,000 in funding available . £500,000 in funding available. i'm £500,000 in funding available. mr prereco— £500,000 in funding available. mr person to— £500,000 in funding available. i'm pleased to stand— £500,000 in funding available. i'm pleased to stand here- £500,000 in funding available. i'm pleased to stand here today at the start of our path to ending homelessness over the next five years. we have a unique opportunity motty to develop innovative new solutions and scale their tangible impact . this will inspire belief

throughout the uk and beyond that homelessness can be ended for good. prince of wales speaking earlier on today. you're up to date on tv online pope — you're up to date on tv online pope neuro— you're up to date on tv online dab+ radio and— you're up to date on tv online dab+ radio and the tune in app. mie— dab+ radio and the tune in app. mre re— dab+ radio and the tune in app. mre m on— dab+ radio and the tune in app. this is gb news,— dab+ radio and the tune in app. this is gb news, britain's news . cnonnet— .channel thanks . channel thanks for . channel- thanks for that, . channel— thanks for that, polly . cnonner— thanks for that, polly michelle dewberry— thanks for that, polly michelle pewperrw mm— thanks for that, polly michelle dewberry with you right through till dewberry with you right through mm moo — dewberry with you right through till 7:00 tonight. _ dewberry with you right through till 7:00 tonight. 3 1:11:1; till 7:00 tonight. alongside me released fresh from prison . and released fresh from prison. and no, i am not making that up. everybody the columnist for the mail on sunday, peter hitchens, alongside me, as is the political consultant, not fresh from prison, dean . as far from prison, alex dean. as far as you know. well, yeah , i mean, as you know. well, yeah, i mean, you know, you've literally just come out days ago, haven't you, on fact. yes, on on friday, in fact. yes, on friday. we might get into a little bit of that as the programme progresses. it's quite an and i for an interesting story and i for one looking to looking one i'm looking to see looking forward seeing and hearing forward to seeing and hearing about can touch about it. you can get in touch with us the usual ways

with us all the usual ways tonight. you know it works, tonight. you know how it works, don't now? email gb don't you? by now? email gb views at gb news dot com or you can gb news. lots can tweet me at gb news. lots coming your way, whether it's prince william and housing, homelessness , can you ever homelessness, can you ever eradicate it? tell me. eradicate it? you tell me. i want to talk to you about the cost of sending people to rwanda that has broken about half that has just broken about half an or so ago. apparently an hour or so ago. apparently nearly £170,000 to send people to rwanda . is that a good deal to rwanda. is that a good deal or not? andy in manchester has just been totting up the cost when it comes to a holiday in rwanda. you're that we're rwanda. you're saying that we're negotiating with the wrong people . all northerners. people. all love northerners. we're and we know how we're very tight and we know how to quid, don't we? to spend a few quid, don't we? i want to talk churchill as well. and more. but should we and lots more. but should we start the goings on in russia start by the goings on in russia over weekend? you might over the weekend? you might have seen say, a very seen it. i have to say, a very chaotic, very high drama and more than a tad confusing. it was a coup one minute that wasn't really a coup. the next minute the whole thing kind of did seem to peter out in about 24 hours time. lots of conversation today, peter, about

what this all means. i don't really think anyone knows the answer to that. you might . i answer to that. you might. i certainly do. and what the response to you from the uk should be, if anything, to the goings on? well, i don't know wnoc— goings on? well, i don't know wnoc m— goings on? well, i don't know what it means.— goings on? well, i don't know what it means. i— 91:1 1135 7 well, i don't know what it means. i think 131131 1135 1:17 well, i don't know what it means. i think people wno— what it means. i think people wno ctorn — what it means. i think people who claim that— what it means. i think people who claim that they do should be examined— who claim that they do should be exonmem very— who claim that they do should be examined very carefully there. it's examined very carefully there. m-e very— examined very carefully there. me very nom— examined very carefully there. it's very hard to— examined very carefully there. it's very hard to penetrate the power— it's very hard to penetrate the power crrctee— it's very hard to penetrate the power circles of— it's very hard to penetrate the power circles of the rulers of me— power circles of the rulers of me nueemn — power circles of the rulers of the russian federation and i woum— the russian federation and i would hesitate— the russian federation and i would hesitate to try to do so. an ownut— would hesitate to try to do so. an ownut roc— would hesitate to try to do so. an awful lot of— would hesitate to try to do so. an awful lot of speculation, nucn— an awful lot of speculation, nucn on— an awful lot of speculation, nucn on m— an awful lot of speculation, much of it wishful thinking, and meo— much of it wishful thinking, and meo enven— much of it wishful thinking, and meo orwen tw— much of it wishful thinking, and also driven by this— much of it wishful thinking, and also driven by this strange penet— also driven by this strange pemet m— also driven by this strange belief in the— also driven by this strange belief in the unique evil of mourni— belief in the unique evil of vladimir putin. _ belief in the unique evil of vladimir putin. now, he is opwouew— vladimir putin. now, he is opwouew o— vladimir putin. now, he is obviously a sinister tyrant and moe— obviously a sinister tyrant and moe teen— obviously a sinister tyrant and has been strangling russian menocrocw— has been strangling russian democracy and— has been strangling russian democracy and freedom for many were— democracy and freedom for many weore .— democracy and freedom for many weore . ae— democracy and freedom for many weore . me 1— democracy and freedom for many weore . me 1 move— democracy and freedom for many years . as i have myself written years. as i have myself written mour— years. as i have myself written about emce— years. as i have myself written about since back— years. as i have myself written about since back at the beginning— about since back at the beginning of- about since back at the beginning of the century. but ne-e— beginning of the century. but ne-e recencw— beginning of the century. but he's recently become a sort of souron— he's recently become a sort of souron figure.— he's recently become a sort of sauron figure, as— he's recently become a sort of sauron figure, as if this was pari— sauron figure, as if this was pure nour— sauron figure, as if this was pun tour on— sauron figure, as if this was part four of the— sauron figure, as if this was part four of the lord of the mnge— part four of the lord of the mnge or— part four of the lord of the rings, or maybe- part four of the lord of the rings, or maybe a hitler figure. ano— rings, or maybe a hitler figure. mm peopte— rings, or maybe a hitler figure. and people have— rings, or maybe a hitler figure. and people have begun to, i mmm— and people have begun to, i mmm .— and people have begun to, i mmm . eer— and people have begun to, i think , set aside— and people have begun to, i think , set aside reason and,

think, set aside reason and, andr— think, set aside reason and, one. one— think, set aside reason and, one. one tec— think, set aside reason and, and, and let emotion take over in and, and let emotion take over m merr— and, and let emotion take over in their assessments of what's going— in their assessments of what's gomg on— in their assessments of what's gomg on mere. — in their assessments of what's going on there. we deal in the worm— going on there. we deal in the worm mm— going on there. we deal in the world with all— going on there. we deal in the world with all kinds of horrible peopte— world with all kinds of horrible peop1e tron — world with all kinds of horrible people from erdogan of turkey to mes— people from erdogan of turkey to mns onu— people from erdogan of turkey to mm and m— people from erdogan of turkey to mbs and in saudi— people from erdogan of turkey to mbs and in saudi arabia and of me— mbs and in saudi arabia and of course, the military rulers of egypt— course, the military rulers of tgwpt wno— course, the military rulers of tgwpt wno re— course, the military rulers of egypt who are guilty of massacring_ egypt who are guilty of massacring their own people on the massacring their own people on me etreete— massacring their own people on the streets of— massacring their own people on the streets of cairo. this is me— the streets of cairo. this is we re— the streets of cairo. this is me te nee— the streets of cairo. this is this is he's in— the streets of cairo. this is this is he's in the same class , this is he's in the same class, in this is he's in the same class, tn ny— this is he's in the same class, tn nw-oe— this is he's in the same class, tn nw-oe men.- this is he's in the same class, in my as them. but it's in my view, as them. but it's poeettte— in my view, as them. but it's poeemte to— in my view, as them. but it's possible to think— in my view, as them. but it's possible to think that maybe he is nonetheless,— possible to think that maybe he is nonetheless, to— possible to think that maybe he is nonetheless, to some extent, a is nonetheless, to some extent, o rottonot— is nonetheless, to some extent, a rational actor.— is nonetheless, to some extent, a rational actor. would we be we— a rational actor. would we be oe to— a rational actor. would we be wise as to pursue— a rational actor. would we be wise as to pursue what seems to be wise as to pursue what seems to me me— wise as to pursue what seems to be the wishful— wise as to pursue what seems to be the wishful thinking of a lot of be the wishful thinking of a lot ot tntee— be the wishful thinking of a lot of this? putin's— be the wishful thinking of a lot of this? putin's terribly weakened— of this? putin's terribly weakened towards us, towards nong— weakened towards us, towards nong mot— weakened towards us, towards nong tnot ne— weakened towards us, towards hoping that he would go and be reptocet— hoping that he would go and be reptocet tw— hoping that he would go and be replaced by somebody else. well, maybe— replaced by somebody else. well, maybe .— replaced by somebody else. well, maybe . except— replaced by somebody else. well, maybe . except he's— replaced by somebody else. well, maybe . except he's not going to maybe. except he's not going to be maybe. except he's not going to te reptocet— maybe. except he's not going to te reptocet tw— maybe. except he's not going to be replaced by goldilocks as whoever, whoever replaces him is protottw— whoever, whoever replaces him is probably going— whoever, whoever replaces him is probably going to_ whoever, whoever replaces him is probably going to be more like yevgeny— probably going to be more like yevgeny prigozhin, the man who cnottenget— yevgeny prigozhin, the man who challenged him _ yevgeny prigozhin, the man who challenged him like putin ntneett.— challenged him like putin himself. and— challenged him like putin himself. and would that be a good— himself. and would that be a good tntnge— himself. and would that be a good thing? we've seen here in the good thing? we've seen here in me eneeng— good thing? we've seen here in the sneering swearing face of trtgozntn— the sneering swearing face of prigozhin roughly what extreme tueeton— prigozhin roughly what extreme russian nationalists look like. i russian nationalists look like.

1 ton-t— russian nationalists look like. 1 mm tmt— russian nationalists look like. i don't find it— russian nationalists look like. i don't find it very attractive nweett. — i don't find it very attractive myself. well,— i don't find it very attractive myself. well, hard- i don't find it very attractive myself. “51:1: 1: 3 myself. well, hard to disagree with much of that, especially peter's last point. if mercenaries recruited from prisons is the answer, you probably asking the wrong question, but if i think about what peter said before, that i think putin may have shown an element of being willing to climb down and be reasonable or at least to be calculating in a way people weren't expecting in the kind of caricature peter was talking about when he didn't go hellfire upon the wagner or wagner, depending on what we're calling it, convoy. but instead negotiated. there was clearly an element of realpolitik in his temporary approach. but on the other hand , if i were in this other hand, if i were in this quy's other hand, if i were in this guy's position, offered his assurances about his safety from putin, i wouldn't trust that promise for a moment. in my view , not the paper it , it's not worth the paper it was written to on say he's safety is going to be assured he's to fight. he's going to have to fight. there is no hole so dark and so obscure he can hide in obscure that he can hide in it away from vladimir putin. well, i saw lord dannatt as well,- i saw lord dannatt as well, a tormen— i saw lord dannatt as well, a

torner-ot— i saw lord dannatt as well, a former-of the- i saw lord dannatt as well, a former of the british army former head of the british army totew— former head of the british army totow. 1— former head of the british army today. 1 we— former head of the british army today. i was listening to some of today. i was listening to some ot—ont- today. i was listening to somei ot—ontlwoe of his commentary and he was eowtng— of his commentary and he was eowtng.-tnow.— of his commentary and he was saying, know, none of this saying, you know, none of this mne— saying, you know, none of this mnt ot— saying, you know, none of this kind of makes— saying, you know, none of this kind of makes sense, but he tmn-t— kind of makes sense, but he didn't necessarily believe this mne— didn't necessarily believe this mnt—tnowl kind of notion of, you know, ne-e— kind of notion of, you know, he's-belarus- kind of notion of, you know, he's-belarus to- kind of notion of, you know, he's belarus to live he's gone to belarus to live happily— he's gone to belarus to live noppttw-wttn- he's gone to belarus to live| happily -withlbit he's gone to belarus to live. happily -withlbit of happily ever after with a bit of onew — happily ever after with a bit of onew -tor— happily ever after with a bit of onew -tor me- happily ever after with a bit of money. for the birds he money. that's for the birds he poemg— money. that's for the birds he was posing. whether not this was posing. whether or not this pernope— was posing. whether or not this pernope-te— was posing. whether or not this pernope-te o— was posing. whether or not this perhaps be a repositioning perhaps could be a repositioning for—kviv- perhaps could be a repositioning for—kviv tron- for them to attack kyiv from netorue.— for them to attack kyiv from belarus. look— for them to attack kyiv from belarus. look he— for them to attack kyiv from belarus. look he didn't take his troope—ntnl troops haven't gone with him ute— troops haven't gone with him mce—or— troops haven't gone with him like—or less- troops haven't gone with him like—or less so. troops haven't gone with him. like—or less so far. like more more or less so far. so like more more or less so far. so my— like more more or less so far. so my imagination— like more more or less so far. so my imagination is- like more more or less so far. so my imagination is whatever he thinks is going to happen. this is up to is this is run up to accidentally falling out of a window, out of the fourth storey of a building. soon ouchi one of the of a building. soon ouchi one of me tnmge— of a building. soon ouchi one of the things that— of a building. soon ouchi one of the things that i've— of a building. soon ouchi one of the things that i've-found. the things that i've also found mtereetmg— the things that i've also found interesting has— the things that i've also found interesting has the interesting has been the conversation, _ interesting has been the conversation, peter, what, conversation, peter, about what, if conversation, peter, about what, m onthmg— conversation, peter, about what, m onwtntng. me— conversation, peter, about what, if anything, the uk should do. so if anything, the uk should do. so-eoe— if anything, the uk should do. so-eoneltne- if anything, the uk should do.- so-somelthe commentary so again, some of the commentary totow— so again, some of the commentary totowleowtng— so again, some of the commentary totowleowtng mot— so again, some of the commentary today saying that this today is saying that this is a weteee m— today is saying that this is a weakness in putin and now the weet— weakness in putin and now the meet noe— weakness in putin and now the meet me to— weakness in putin and now the west has to kind— weakness in putin and now the west has to kind of capitalise ont— west has to kind of capitalise end to— west has to kind of capitalise and do everything whatever it take— and do everything whatever it totee to— and do everything whatever it totee to gtwe— and do everything whatever it takes to give ukraine final takes to give ukraine that final puen— takes to give ukraine that final puen to— takes to give ukraine that final puen to tw— takes to give ukraine that final puen to by ont— takes to give ukraine that final push to try and end the war. wett— push to try and end the war. wett. mte— push to try and end the war. well, this .just_ push to try and end the war. well, this just the general well, this is just the general tetueton— well, this is just the general delusion grandeur which delusion of grandeur which we newe— delusion of grandeur which we move-top— delusion of grandeur which we move-top-ot- delusion of grandeur which we have -top -of our. have at the top levels of our eoctetw— have at the top levels of our eoctetw-m— have at the top levels of our society, in politics and society, both in politics and neon. — society, both in politics and neon. me— society, both in politics and media. the fantasy that this is an important and powerful country, which it isn't, or that

russia attention to russia pays much attention to what or indeed the what we think or indeed the united states pays much attention to what think. attention to what we think. we're player in this. we're a minor player in this. what our concern is in what what what our concern is in what is fundamentally a clash between a us policy a faction in us foreign policy making and the russian state. i really don't know what britain's interests are in ukraine. it's a mystery to me. i have no idea why we're involved in the commentaries we offer on this war, a bit like italian war, a bit like the italian government offering commentaries on 1982. what on the falklands in 1982. what is that we have in this? the is it that we have in this? the that keeps us so engaged? i don't understand this great crop of experts on russia and warfare in the ukraine who suddenly sprung up all over our military industrial complex. what what do they think? what kind of country do they think this is? we can't even afford to keep our own borders under control. so the idea we can be idea that we can somehow be a major power, 1500, 2000 miles away in south eastern europe is so i'm amazed caused so fantastic. i'm amazed caused by this this fantasy that we are still somehow a big three at yalta . everybody is listening to

yalta. everybody is listening to us. everybody cares what we think, what we say about vladimir putin is going to decide his fate. it isn't, is it 7 decide his fate. it isn't, is it ? well, it's ludicrous. your borders point is,- ? well, it's ludicrous. your borders point is, is- 7' �*15111131 . .1: £ your borders point is, is obviously wett— borders point is, is obviously wett note. — borders point is, is obviously well made. but— borders point is, is obviously well made. but as far as our tnpoct— well made. but as far as our tnpoct on— well made. but as far as our impact on what's— well made. but as far as our impact on what's happening in the impact on what's happening in me contttct— impact on what's happening in the conflict is— impact on what's happening in the conflict is concerned, i tntnt— the conflict is concerned, i tth tt-e— the conflict is concerned, i think it's rather- the conflict is concerned, i think it's rather more judged by outcomes rather— think it's rather more judged by outcomes rather than by on pnnctpte— outcomes rather than by on prmctpte-on— outcomes rather than by on principle on outcomes outcomes rather than by on- principle .on .outcomes. principle and on the outcomes. were— principle and on the outcomes. were ot— principle and on the outcomes. we're one of the— principle and on the outcomes. we're one of the biggest donors of we're one of the biggest donors otlnotertot— we're one of the biggest donors of.material.the- of kit material to the ukrainians,- of kit material to the ukrainians, one of the biggest. if ukrainians, one of the biggest. m-tetwe— ukrainians, one of the biggest. m-tetwe me— ukrainians, one of the biggest. if-leave the united- ukrainians, one of the biggest. if-leave the united states,�* if you leave the united states, i'll listen to you after i've finished saying what i want to say. we're one of the biggest tonore— say. we're one of the biggest tonore to— say. we're one of the biggest donors to ukraine _ we're one of the biggest donors to ukraine of material . donors to ukraine of material. nut— donors to ukraine of material. nut-wonder— donors to ukraine of material. but-wonder what- donors to ukraine of material. but wonder what our but if you wonder what our tnpoct— but if you wonder what our tnpoct te— but if you wonder what our tnpoct te or— but if you wonder what our impact is or our— but if you wonder what our impact is or our the perception of impact is or our the perception ot ue— impact is or our the perception ot ue te— impact is or our the perception ot ue te me— impact is or our the perception of us is the other— impact is or our the perception of us is the other thing to pomt— of us is the other thing to potnt out— of us is the other thing to point out might be that the tueetone— point out might be that the russians talk— point out might be that the russians talk about british mttuence— russians talk about british influence all— russians talk about british influence all the time . um, they influence all the time. um, they see influence all the time. um, they me— influence all the time. um, they tne nont— influence all the time. um, they see the hand of— influence all the time. um, they see the hand of britain behind ewerwtntng. — see the hand of britain behind everything. we're— see the hand of britain behind everything. we're like snowball. in everything. we're like snowball. m-toroge— everything. we're like snowball. m-toroge me— everything. we're like snowball. in farage the russians are in 1984, farage the russians are concerned-hand— in 1984, farage the russians are concerned. hand behind concerned. our hand is behind ewerthmg— concerned. our hand is behind everything-when- concerned. our hand is behind everything, when we're not everything, even when we're not tnere. — everything, even when we're not tnere. -ottw— everything, even when we're not there. -okay,-this. there. well, okay, that's this is from the days when is a hangover from the days when we important. you'll find we were important. you'll find the iran where the same thing in iran where everything that goes wrong in iran generally iran is generally generally blamed the perfidious

blamed on the on the perfidious british. but it's historical. we aren't it's not just that we can't control our own borders. we've lost control of our own economy. borrowing money economy. we're borrowing money to on debts. we to pay interest on our debts. we the equipment we're supplying to ukraine is equipment which is in very short supply our armed very short supply for our armed forces should they ever be needed to defend this country. we can't , as far as i can see, we can't, as far as i can see, secure the safety of the population on our own streets. i just think it's a fantastic diversion. politicians it diversion. politicians love it because they are such failures at domestic matters. schools that don't teach children to read, who don't ever read, police who don't ever appear on the streets as i say, borders that are out of control. but yes, we can really pose standing beside union jack saying how powerful we in saying how powerful we are in ukraine. it's pathetic. the most fundamental country fundamental thing this country needs recognise how needs to do is to recognise how unimportant, how poor and how badly governed it is. and to put that right, rather than trampling around the world pretending to be a great power. it seems to it's just it's it seems to me it's just it's just it's just pathetic. i know that's what you think,- f i know that's what you think, but it is wnot— that's what you think, but it is wnot-t— that's what you think, but it is wnot-t know.- what i think i know,

justifiably. - what i think i know, justifiably. you've what i think i know,- justifiably.-you've made it justifiably. and you've made it cetr— justifiably. and you've made it cetr tut— justifiably. and you've made it cetr tut 1t— justifiably. and you've made it clear, but it seems to me that me— clear, but it seems to me that tne troutte— clear, but it seems to me that the trouble with— the trouble with that perspective - the trouble with that perspective could perspective is that one could agree—teet- perspective is that one could agree—deal of. perspective is that one could agree—deal of iti perspective is that one could. agree—deal of it and agree with a good deal of it and etttt— agree with a good deal of it and etttt not— agree with a good deal of it and still not resort— agree with a good deal of it and still not resort to _ agree with a good deal of it and still not resort to the cynicism of still not resort to the cynicism ot eowmg— still not resort to the cynicism ot eowmg mot— still not resort to the cynicism of saying that our— still not resort to the cynicism of saying that our support for wnot-e— of saying that our support for what's happening in ukraine a what's happening in ukraine is a ploy— what's happening in ukraine is a ptow or— what's happening in ukraine is a ploy or-mnt— what's happening in ukraine is a ploy or-mnt ot— what's happening in ukraine is a ploy or kind of deliberate ploy or some kind of deliberate ttetroctton— ploy or some kind of deliberate distraction—ii distraction. and that's where i tth— distraction. and that's where i tth-toee— distraction. and that's where i think-losellot- distraction. and that's where i think-losellot of- think you'll lose a lot of peopte— think you'll lose a lot of people-migbt- think you'll lose a lot of people might have some people who might have some ewnpotnw— people who might have some sympatby-tbe- people who might have some sympathy the diagnosis that sympathy with the diagnosis that woure— sympathy with the diagnosis that wou-re—touttel you're making about our faults in you're making about our faults tn toneettc— you're making about our faults in domestic-you- you're making about our faults in domestic you don't in domestic politics. you don't meet— in domestic politics. you don't meet-to— in domestic politics. you don't need -to .extreme. in domestic politics. you don't need to extreme or in domestic politics. you don't. need -to .extreme or to need to go to that extreme or to mot— need to go to that extreme or to mot-m— need to go to that extreme or to mot-m omer— need to go to that extreme or to that-in order to— need to go to that extreme or to that in order to make that point in order to make accurate diagnoses about a eoctetw— accurate diagnoses about a society-which,- accurate diagnoses about a society which, know society of which, you know a great— society of which, you know a greet-1— society of which, you know a greet-1 entre- society of which, you know a great-i share i- society of which, you know a great-i share i sharel society of which, you know a- great-i share i share your great deal. i share i share your view, and i got into a lot of trouble because what you're saying is absolutely right, because show week, because on this show last week, i was saying that i felt that one of the reasons that the uk went and was one of went head first and was one of the first of the us, one the first outside of the us, one of the first european countries to i was saying that to go all in, i was saying that a of me thinks it was boris a part of me thinks it was boris johnson. he knew he was making a hash domestically, so hash of things domestically, so he pinned himself to he kind of pinned himself to this a way of, you know, this as a way of, you know, kudos and all the rest of it. and of my viewers were and a lot of my viewers were furious with me. this kind furious with me. but this kind of this kind of cynicism of thing, this kind of cynicism that or excuse

that you both espouse or excuse me, there's nothing cynical about the cynicism about pointing out the cynicism of you, not of others. peter, for you, not in of others. peter, for you, not tn .teoet— of others. peter, for you, not tn .teoet to — of others. peter, for you, not in .least to suggest- peter, for you, not in least to suggest you're in the least to suggest you're not— in the least to suggest you're not content — in the least to suggest you're not cynicab 1— in the least to suggest you're not cynical, i think is for the tree. — not cynical, i think is for the tree. tn— not cynical, i think is for the tree. mr m— not cynical, i think is for the birds. i'm a sentimental as all get out. i like small furry ontnote— get out. i like small furry ontnote-t— 13111 i like small furry animals, i absolutely animals, but i absolutely tettewe— animals, but i absolutely believe that— animals, but i absolutely believe that there is cynicism onong— believe that there is cynicism among politicians who do to among politicians who do like to poee— among politicians who do like to poee on— among politicians who do like to poee on toretgn— among politicians who do like to pose on foreign when pose on foreign fields when mew-re— pose on foreign fields when they're failing— pose on foreign fields when they're failing home. they're failing at home. i remember blair constantly having his remember blair constantly having nte-toten— remember blair constantly having his-taken beside- remember blair constantly having his taken beside troops his picture taken beside troops whenever every— his picture taken beside troops whenever every opportunity he coutt— whenever every opportunity he coum wnen— whenever every opportunity he could when he— whenever every opportunity he could when he was all his euppoeet— could when he was all his supposed domestic reforms, tough on ont— supposed domestic reforms, tough on crime and education, etucotton— on crime and education, education, education, flop , education, education, flop, flop— education, education, flop, top. top. — education, education, flop, flop, flop. and— education, education, flop, flop, flop. and of course, the tnntgrotton— flop, flop. and of course, the immigration policy which he was pureumg— immigration policy which he was pureumg. vou— immigration policy which he was pursuing. you don't need to sell me on tonn— pursuing. you don't need to sell me on dpp unpopular. but if he coutt— me on dpp unpopular. but if he coum poee— me on dpp unpopular. but if he could pose with— me on dpp unpopular. but if he could pose with some troops, men— could pose with some troops, men m— could pose with some troops, men m ee— could pose with some troops, then it was fine. _ could pose with some troops, then it was fine. but let's all trrne— then it was fine. but let's all prime ministers— then it was fine. but let's all prime ministers do it. look on the prime ministers do it. look on me mutte— prime ministers do it. look on the faults tony blair. i, the faults of tony blair. i, i agree with you. but let's turn to this century, at least this decade, you don't have really it's very sweet that think it's very sweet that you think you're but the you're not cynical, but the nofion you're not cynical, but the notion that someone look at notion that someone can look at russia's invasion of russia's unprovoked invasion of ukraine britain's ukraine and say britain's britain's the people britain's support for the people of is to do with of ukraine is only to do with cynicism domestic cynicism and domestic politics. that of itself is

that in and of itself is cynicism the point of a cynicism to the point of a corrosive perspective, that nihilism that you're espousing now is really , you know, you're now is really, you know, you're going to drag the rest of us in with you if you're not careful and you're entitled to be as depressed like, but depressed as you like, but you're not. shouldn't try you're not. you shouldn't try and everyone else's and corrode everyone else's faith basic decency of faith in the basic decency of our parliament. i'm neither nmmettc— our parliament. i'm neither nihilistic nor— our parliament. i'm neither nihilistic nor am— i'm neither nihilistic nor am depressed. nihilistic nor am i depressed. i tettewe— nihilistic nor am i depressed. i believe strongly— nihilistic nor am i depressed. i believe strongly that the people wno— believe strongly that the people wno — believe strongly that the people who are concerned— believe strongly that the people who are concerned about this country— who are concerned about this country ent— who are concerned about this country and who— who are concerned about this country and who are patriotic entren— country and who are patriotic british-should- country and who are patriotic british should be british people should be concerned.— british people should be concerned. fundamentally concerned. most fundamentally etout—eetety- concerned. most fundamentally about—safety and. about the security, safety and wem—temg— about the security, safety and wett—temg ot— about the security, safety and well—being of the people of this country— well—being of the people of this country .— well—being of the people of this country . ant— well—being of the people of this country . ant m— well—being of the people of this country . and if they can't sort country. and if they can't sort met— country. and if they can't sort tnet out.— country. and if they can't sort that out, then— country. and if they can't sort that out, then everything else met— that out, then everything else met-te— that out, then everything else tnet-te .— that out, then everything else tnet-te . tn— that out, then everything else that is , i'm afraid, a that they do is, i'm afraid, a distraction.— that they do is, i'm afraid, a distraction. i— that they do is, i'm afraid, a distraction. i with that . distraction. i agree with that. vou— distraction. i agree with that. mum-— distraction. i agree with that. vounone- ot— distraction. i agree with that. you-none of that- distraction. i agree with that. you - none of that needsl distraction. i agree with that. . you-none of that needs we you know, none of that needs we have we have this again, we have this again with david cameron and his ridiculous attack on on libya, caused more harm, libya, which caused more harm, probably than any other foreign policy this country has ever pursued. it's one of the reasons why— pursued. it's one of the reasons my my— pursued. it's one of the reasons my my me— pursued. it's one of the reasons why why the european- : it's one of the reasons why why the european migration crtete— why why the european migration crtete te— why why the european migration crtete te no— why why the european migration crisis is now is— why why the european migration crisis is now is now out of control— crisis is now is now out of control, because - crisis is now is now out of control, because destroyed a control, because we destroyed a true— control, because we destroyed a trutet ent— control, because we destroyed a brutal and horrible but stable government— brutal and horrible but stable government in—

brutal and horrible but stable government in libya and replaced it government in libya and replaced tt wttn— government in libya and replaced tt wttn e— government in libya and replaced it with a cauldron— government in libya and replaced it with a cauldron of chaos. you wren— it with a cauldron of chaos. you wten met— it with a cauldron of chaos. you wish that that— it with a cauldron of chaos. you wish that that was— it with a cauldron of chaos. you wish that that was david cameron's. he's he's he's he's a torgotten— cameron's. he's he's he's he's a torgotten rnen— cameron's. he's he's he's he's a forgotten man. but— cameron's. he's he's he's he's a forgotten man. but he did an enormous amount of damage to the etettttty. — enormous amount of damage to the etettttty. vou— enormous amount of damage to the stability. you would— enormous amount of damage to the stability. /111. : stability. you would rather colonel gaddafi still in colonel gaddafi was still in power? iwould colonel gaddafi was still in power? i would actually. yes. neyont— power? i would actually. yes. neyont teyonm— ”7’ i would actually. yes. beyond beyond. absolutely beyond mutt.— beyond beyond. absolutely beyond toutt—retner- doubt. i'd rather i'd rather tttye— doubt. i'd rather i'd rather tmye-en- doubt. i'd rather i'd rather libya-an actual. doubt. i'd rather i'd rather- libya-an actual stable, libya was was an actual stable, governed— libya was was an actual stable, governed-rather- libya was was an actual stable, governed rather than the governed country rather than the cneoe— governed country rather than the cneoe wntcn— governed country rather than the chaos which it— governed country rather than the chaos which it is— governed country rather than the chaos which it is now, which is me— chaos which it is now, which is tne-wntcn— chaos which it is now, which is the -which this- chaos which it is now, which is the which this country the legacy which this country nee— the legacy which this country nee-gwe- the legacy which this country nee-gtwe to- the legacy which this country has - give to l and i has helped to give to it and wntcn— has helped to give to it and which causes— has helped to give to it and which causes endless trouble. has helped to give to it and whicaszauses endless trouble. has helped to give to it and whicasza say, endless trouble. has helped to give to it and whicasza say, again,;s trouble. has helped to give to it and whicasza say, again, oneyuble. has helped to give to it and whicasza say, again, one of le. has helped to give to it and whicasza say, again, one of the and as i say, again, one of the men— and as i say, again, one of the main reasons for— and as i say, again, one of the main reasons for the huge mttuw— main reasons for the huge mttux. you— main reasons for the huge influx, you might feel rather uncontrolled _ influx, you might feel rather uncontrolled migration. one of the uncontrolled migration. one of me tmyene— uncontrolled migration. one of the libyans, huge— uncontrolled migration. one of the libyans, huge influx. let me let the libyans, huge influx. let me tet-ttnten— the libyans, huge influx. let me let-finish the _ the libyans, huge influx. let me let-finish the huge- the libyans, huge influx. let me let finish the huge influx of let me finish the huge influx of uncontrolled _ let me finish the huge influx of uncontrolled migration across the mediterranean , which has the mediterranean, which has trenetornet— the mediterranean, which has transformed politics transformed the politics of turope — transformed the politics of turope oer— transformed the politics of europe over the past ten years. pont— europe over the past ten years. pon-t-tntnt— europe over the past ten years. don't think cameron, don't you think david cameron, ton-t— don't you think david cameron, mont-you— don't you think david cameron, ton-t-you-teeti don't you think you might feel tttterent— don't you think you might feel different-one- don't you think you might feel different-one of- don't you think you might feel different one of the different if you're one of the tttyene— different if you're one of the tmyene-net— different if you're one of the libyans-had or- different if you're one of the- libyans-had or-family libyans who had or whose family had libyans who had or whose family net teen— libyans who had or whose family had been persecuted by gadhafi systematically?— had been persecuted by gadhafi systematically?-it- had been persecuted by gadhafi systematically? it if systematically? but is it if nrttem— systematically? but is it if britain-course,i britain thinks, of course, you woum— britain thinks, of course, you would-course- britain thinks, of course, you would-course i- britain thinks, of course, you would course i would. would look, of course i would. put— would look, of course i would. nut-te— would look, of course i would. nut-re tneee- but the thing is, these interventions not interventions are not are not tone— interventions are not are not tone tor— interventions are not are not tone tor-me- interventions are not are not done for the ostensible done for the for the ostensible purpoee— done for the for the ostensible purpoee tney-re — done for the for the ostensible purpose they're given. we mterwenet— purpose they're given. we intervened in— purpose they're given. we intervened in well, we supported the intervened in well, we supported tne euppoeet— intervened in well, we supported the supposed arab—

intervened in well, we supported the supposed arab spring and the aret— the supposed arab spring and the met spng— the supposed arab spring and the met spng tet— the supposed arab spring and the arab spring led in— the supposed arab spring and the arab spring led in egypt to a ceteetropne— arab spring led in egypt to a catastrophe which ended as i say,— catastrophe which ended as i eey. wttn— catastrophe which ended as i eey. wttn tne — catastrophe which ended as i say, with the gunning down of muettn — say, with the gunning down of muslim brotherhood members on the muslim brotherhood members on me etreete— muslim brotherhood members on me etreete ot— muslim brotherhood members on the streets of cairo,— muslim brotherhood members on the streets of cairo, an etroctty— the streets of cairo, an atrocity we _ the streets of cairo, an atrocity we completely forget tecuee— atrocity we completely forget because we want to be on side wttn— because we want to be on side wttn me— because we want to be on side with the regime— because we want to be on side with the regime there. we have no meettettc— with the regime there. we have no idealistic engagement in tneee— no idealistic engagement in these countries.— no idealistic engagement in these countries. it's not what we to— these countries. it's not what we to 1t— these countries. it's not what we to m tor. — these countries. it's not what we do it for. well— these countries. it's not what we do it for. well what do you mete— we do it for. well what do you nete to— we do it for. well what do you nete to me— we do it for. well what do you make to this at— we do it for. well what do you make to this at home? f make to this at home? because i tttnt— make to this at home? because i ttmt met— make to this at home? because i think that i know some of you guys and i think that there will be divided opinion where do you stand on it? and that final conversation we're just having there me nicely to one of there leads me nicely to one of there leads me nicely to one of the conversations shall be the conversations i shall be having bit later in having a little bit later on in this migration, this program about migration, about the costs. now, about some of the costs. now, when comes to migration when it comes to migration policy in this country, £170,000 is the impact assessment and thatis is the impact assessment and that is the cost to send people to rwanda . do you agree with to rwanda. do you agree with that not? and your thoughts to rwanda. do you agree with théthat not? and your thoughts to rwanda. do you agree with théthat last and your thoughts to rwanda. do you agree with théthat last conversationrughts to rwanda. do you agree with théthat last conversation ?ghts to rwanda. do you agree with théthat last conversation ? an; on that last conversation? an also coming up, public sector pay, also coming up, public sector pay, should they get a rise if they work in the public sector? if so, by how

to gb news radio. hello there.

i'm michel dup with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, 7:oo tonight. alongside me, meter— 7:oo tonight. alongside me, peter hitchens— 7:oo tonight. alongside me, peter hitchens and- 1�* 00 13 alongside me, peter hitchens and alex 1�* 00 131 alongside me, peter hitchens and alex dean. 1�* 00 31 alongside me, peter hitchens and alex dean. if you-e— peter hitchens and alex dean. if you-e tuet— peter hitchens and alex dean. if you-e tuet tomet— peter hitchens and alex dean. if you've just joined us, you've tuet— you've just joined us, you've tuet nteeet— you've just joined us, you've tuet nteeet e— you've just joined us, you've just missed a fascinating debate mere.— just missed a fascinating debate tnere. wnen— just missed a fascinating debate tnere. men m— just missed a fascinating debate there. when it comes to russia, wnet-e— there. when it comes to russia, wnet-e m— there. when it comes to russia, what's, if anything, the uk enoutt— what's, if anything, the uk enoum te— what's, if anything, the uk should be doing and whether or not politicians— should be doing and whether or not politicians can— should be doing and whether or not politicians can be a little bit not politicians can be a little mt cyntcet— not politicians can be a little bit cynical when— not politicians can be a little bit cynical when it comes to gettmg— bit cynical when it comes to getting themselves involved in tnmge— getting themselves involved in tnmge-pnoto— getting themselves involved in things photo opportunities things like photo opportunities wttn— things like photo opportunities wttn toretgn— things like photo opportunities with foreign conflicts as oppoeet— with foreign conflicts as oppoeet to— with foreign conflicts as opposed to doing what they need to te— opposed to doing what they need to te tomg— opposed to doing what they need to be doing here— opposed to doing what they need to be doing here in— opposed to doing what they need to be doing here in the uk. your tnougnte— to be doing here in the uk. your tnougnte on— to be doing here in the uk. your thoughts on all— to be doing here in the uk. your thoughts on all of— to be doing here in the uk. your thoughts on all of all thoughts on all of that and all the thoughts on all of that and all tne ueuet— thoughts on all of that and all the usual ways— thoughts on all of that and all the usual ways vaiews@gbnews.uk is the usual ways vaiews@gbnews.uk te—enett— the usual ways vaiews@gbnews.uk te—enett ne- the usual ways vaiews@gbnews.uk is_email me lots- the usual ways vaiews@gbnews.uk is_email me lots of. is how you can email me lots of tnougnte— is how you can email me lots of tnougnte-m— is how you can email me lots of thoughts-in and- is how you can email me lots of thoughts-in and i'll- is how you can email me lots of thoughts in and i'll have thoughts coming in and i'll have eoneltnoee— thoughts coming in and i'll have eoneltnoeele— thoughts coming in and i'll have some .thosela few- thoughts coming in and i'll have some those a few minutes, some of those in a few minutes, tut— some of those in a few minutes, tut mt— some of those in a few minutes, but i'll finish— some of those in a few minutes, but i'll finish the— some of those in a few minutes, but i'll finish the conversation pernepe— but i'll finish the conversation pernepe met— but i'll finish the conversation perhaps that we _ but i'll finish the conversation perhaps that we just started mere— perhaps that we just started tnere—ott perhaps that we just started- there_off onto there because we did go off onto there because we did go off onto tne tengent— there because we did go off onto tne tengent ot— there because we did go off onto the tangent of migration and how we teet— the tangent of migration and how we teet wttn— the tangent of migration and how we deal with that— the tangent of migration and how we deal with that in this country— we deal with that in this country now— we deal with that in this country now. it came up just tetore— country now. it came up just tetore mte— country now. it came up just before this programme actually, the before this programme actually, tne ee— before this programme actually, the news broke— before this programme actually, the news broke about the economic impact assessment that mey— economic impact assessment that tney tetm— economic impact assessment that tney tett. we— economic impact assessment that they talk. we talk— economic impact assessment that they talk. we talk a— economic impact assessment that they talk. we talk a lot, don't wee— they talk. we talk a lot, don't wee m— they talk. we talk a lot, don't wee m terme— they talk. we talk a lot, don't we? in terms of— they talk. we talk a lot, don't we? in terms of the illegal mtgretton— we? in terms of the illegal migration bill— we? in terms of the illegal migration bill and we know where

that migration bill and we know where tnet te— migration bill and we know where tnet te ent— migration bill and we know where that is and all— migration bill and we know where that is and all the— migration bill and we know where that is and all the rest of it, put— that is and all the rest of it, put wnet— that is and all the rest of it, put wnet te— that is and all the rest of it, but what is the— that is and all the rest of it, but what is the answer to people croeemg— but what is the answer to people croeetng tne— but what is the answer to people crossing the channel is the ntttton— crossing the channel is the million dollar— crossing the channel is the million dollar question. nobody mowe— million dollar question. nobody tnowe nut— million dollar question. nobody knows. but tonight can put knows. but tonight we can put eoee-w— knows. but tonight we can put eoee-w tett- knows. but tonight we can put some we talk about rwanda some costs. we talk about rwanda and some costs. we talk about rwanda ent tne— some costs. we talk about rwanda ent tne-mow— some costs. we talk about rwanda and the - now the _ some costs. we talk about rwanda and the now the breakdown and the cost. now the breakdown has and the cost. now the breakdown nee—reteeeet.- and the cost. now the breakdown has-released,.l- has come out, released, as i end.— has come out, released, as i eemltew— has come out, released, as i said,lfew about— has come out, released, as i said, few about an hour or so said, a few about an hour or so ego.— said, a few about an hour or so ego. monopo— said, a few about an hour or so ago, £169,000 as— said, a few about an hour or so ago, £169,000 as it— said, a few about an hour or so ago, £169,000 as it is divided othon— ago, £169,000 as it is divided optnton .— ago, £169,000 as it is divided optnton . eoe— ago, £169,000 as it is divided opinion , some people are like opinion, some people are like eeymg— opinion, some people are like eeytng wetue— opinion, some people are like saying value for— opinion, some people are like saying value for money, perfect etretegy— saying value for money, perfect etretegy .— saying value for money, perfect etretegy . get— saying value for money, perfect etretegy . get on— saying value for money, perfect strategy , get on with it. other strategy, get on with it. other peopte— strategy, get on with it. other people 5aying— strategy, get on with it. other people saying it's an absolute weete— people saying it's an absolute weete ot— people saying it's an absolute waste of money.— people saying it's an absolute waste of money. i'm playing that treettown— waste of money. i'm playing that treemown ot— waste of money. i'm playing that breakdown of costs— waste of money. i'm playing that breakdown of costs on the screen in breakdown of costs on the screen youe— breakdown of costs on the screen in case you're interested as to now— in case you're interested as to now met— in case you're interested as to how that figure— in case you're interested as to how that figure was created. mex.— how that figure was created. mex. your— how that figure was created. alex, your thoughts ? 11131 3 alex, your thoughts? my thought is alex, your thoughts? my thought te met— alex, your thoughts? my thought is that one should always take these projections and financial calculations with a certain pinch of salt . and i note apart pinch of salt. and i note apart from anything else, that when the climate act went through our house of commons, against which a five conservative a mere five conservative members of voted against the of parliament voted against the initial statement showed initial impact statement showed an enormous cost to the legislation. normally when you have a cost impact statement, it shows you're to shows that you're going to save a good money. it showed a good deal of money. it showed it going cost britain it was going to cost britain billions to go through the

climate process and therefore government thought government went away, thought again found incredible again and found incredible amounts of savings that hadn't been before. and we're able been seen before. and we're able to suddenly the to demonstrate suddenly that the impact reversed. impact of the bill was reversed. so sometimes you can make these numbers what you want them numbers say what you want them to even it was to say, but even if it was around this number, i would still we're right still think we're in the right position a country for two position as a country for two reasons. first is this is reasons. the first is this is stated on number of rwandan stated on the number of rwandan flights we get going flights we might get going presently as you're able to send more rwanda . there's more people to rwanda. there's an economy of scale, obviously, that you benefit from that means you benefit from sending and getting sending more people and getting the costs down somewhat. but the second much more important second and much more important reason worth reason that it's still worth doing the benefit of doing is the benefit of deterring people from coming in doing is the benefit of detyfirst] people from coming in doing is the benefit of detyfirst place..e from coming in doing is the benefit of detyfirst place. and1m coming in doing is the benefit of detyfirst place. and it's oming in doing is the benefit of detyfirst place. and it's thatig in the first place. and it's that whilst admittedly intangible, which this a hard which makes this a hard calculation undertake and calculation to undertake and i'm not who drew not blaming the people who drew up figures, but seems up these figures, but it seems to given tangible to me, given the tangible figures know about how figures we do know about how much costing put much it's costing us to put people up in hotels and so forth in this country every single day. it seems to me that this kind deterrent is kind of deterrent policy is worth if the cost is worth it, even if the cost is and it remarkable, it's and it seems remarkable, it's this but even if cost

this high. but even if the cost is as as they say, yeah, is as high as they say, yeah, and will just get that cost and i will just get that cost back on the screen in case back up on the screen in case you're just tuning in and you're thinking what on earth is michelle now? i'm michelle talking about now? i'm talking £169,000 talking about the £169,000 ttgure. — talking about the £169,000 ttgure. ene— talking about the £169,000 figure. one of— talking about the £169,000 figure. one of things figure. one of the things that i tmt— figure. one of the things that i met gutte— figure. one of the things that i find quite interesting and nteetng— find quite interesting and missing correct find quite interesting and. missing-correct me find quite interesting and- missing-correct me if missing from that correct me if tn — missing from that correct me if tn mong— missing from that correct me if tn wog ny— missing from that correct me if i'm wrong, my eyes might be tetttng— i'm wrong, my eyes might be tettmg-te— i'm wrong, my eyes might be failing-is where's- i'm wrong, my eyes might be failing is where's all the failing me, is where's all the teget— failing me, is where's all the teget-me— failing me, is where's all the teget-me mey- failing me, is where's all the legal are they assuming legal costs? are they assuming met—met— legal costs? are they assuming that—first all- legal costs? are they assuming that—first all the. that this is per first all the teget— that this is per first all the legal wranglings and now it's etgnem— legal wranglings and now it's etgnem-ent- legal wranglings and now it's signed, and delivered and signed, sealed and delivered and met— signed, sealed and delivered and tnet-tettwery— signed, sealed and delivered and that-delivery cost— signed, sealed and delivered and that delivery cost that that is a delivery cost that nuet—peoptei that is a delivery cost that- must_people who've must be solely for people who've etreety— must be solely for people who've already determined not to already been determined not to newe— already been determined not to havellegitimate_ already been determined not to have legitimate asylum have a legitimate asylum or retugee—eee. have a legitimate asylum or. refugee _see, peter, refugee claim. you see, peter, i tntnt— refugee claim. you see, peter, i tth wnen— refugee claim. you see, peter, i tth men m— refugee claim. you see, peter, i think when it comes this think when it comes to this issue, we can— think when it comes to this issue, we can-all. think when it comes to this issue, we can all this issue, we can debate all this treettown— issue, we can debate all this breakdown, know, till the breakdown, you know, till the cowe-none. — breakdown, you know, till the cows-home. for- breakdown, you know, till the cows home. for me. i do not cows come home. for me. i do not unteretent— cows come home. for me. i do not unteretent wnet— cows come home. for me. i do not understand what this— cows come home. for me. i do not understand what this government is understand what this government te wetttng— understand what this government te wetttng tor. — understand what this government te wetttng tor. 1— understand what this government is waiting for. i know why is waiting for. i don't know why mey— is waiting for. i don't know why tney-tuet— is waiting for. i don't know why tney-tuet put— is waiting for. i don't know why tney-tuet put e- is waiting for. i don't know why they-just put a _to i they don't just put a flight to twente— they don't just put a flight to twente ent— they don't just put a flight to rwanda and with the rwanda and deal with the consequences— rwanda and deal with the consequences afterwards. so that woutt— consequences afterwards. so that would—deterrent. - would be a great deterrent. but nobody—wett- would be a great deterrent. but nobody _well. they. nobody is doing it well. they are nobody is doing it well. they ere-ty— nobody is doing it well. they ere-toy tne— nobody is doing it well. they are-by the law- nobody is doing it well. they are by the law and the law are bound by the law and the law is are bound by the law and the law te very— are bound by the law and the law is very constraining— are bound by the law and the law is very constraining on this. nut— is very constraining on this. out tut— is very constraining on this. out tut wnet— is very constraining on this. but but what would - is very constraining on this. but but what would be- is very constraining on this. but but what would be the consequences breaking it? consequences of breaking it? well, you governments well, that you can't governments cent— well, that you can't governments cen-t treet— well, that you can't governments can't break laws. _ well, that you can't governments can't break laws. “11:31 ”11,1 can't break laws. they rely the whole is law that makes whole it is the law that makes them once them the government. once

governments breaking governments start breaking laws, you everything into you break down everything into anarchy. it anarchy. you simply cannot do it if you're to if you're if you're going to if you're going to claim to be civilised. but the real problem to is but the real problem to me is that obviously the issue of the migration channel migration across the channel is a but there is a huge a major one, but there is a huge amount immigration coming amount of immigration coming into the into this country. and the allegedly party, allegedly conservative party, which to which is the only way to describe it, has never during its time in office either as coalition or by itself made any serious efforts to bring it down. though it makes constant promises to do so. it's now become wiser in that in that it no longer makes specific promises and it goes through this splashing and churning of the waters to it look as if the waters to make it look as if it's doing something. but i would be surprised if any of this leads to anything. seriously way, seriously and there is a way, particularly with the particularly of dealing with the channel business, which is to recognise what we basically recognise that what we basically have now is a land border with france to and pay the french huge to money stop huge amounts of to money stop the that the migrants coming. that would be major contribution. be a major contribution. but it remains it appears remains the case that it appears to the government wants to me that the government wants there to be quite a high level of migration into this country,

just the labour just as the previous labour government is government did, and that that is not to because as not going to change because as far as can see, their economic far as i can see, their economic policy upon will be policy depends upon this will be the thorn in the back in the side tories at the next side of the tories at the next at the back side, on the front, quite frankly of the tories at this next thorns everywhere. yeah. because yeah. foreign yeah. because eoeooo— yeah. foreign yeah. because eoeooo ee— yeah. foreign yeah. because 606,000 was the net migration . 606,000 was the net migration. 45, 606,000 was the net migration. .5, geopo— 606,000 was the net migration. 45, 46,000 people _ 606,000 was the net migration. 45, 46,000 people crossing the cnennet— 45, 46,000 people crossing the cnennet teet— 45, 46,000 people crossing the channel last year— 45, 46,000 people crossing the channel last year .— 45, 46,000 people crossing the channel last year. it is not sustainable— channel last year. it is not sustainable . _ channel last year. it is not sustainable . i- channel last year. it is not sustainable . 51131211: channel last year. it is not sustainable . 511311311; sustainable. i agree with you about two things. the first thing i think is that people shouldn't come to this country by by the means we're talking about across the channel. it's across an incredibly dangerous body of water by necessity, it's demonstrating they're not coming by routes by which they've been ianed by routes by which they've been invited or have lawful means to come and in my view, if you come from a safe country, you shouldn't be deemed to have a reasonable or refugee reasonable asylum or refugee claim place. claim in the first place. conceding as i do that, peter is right currently right that currently in international not international law that is not how world is perceived. i how the world is perceived. i think that we should withdraw from that obliges from any agreement that obliges us that it is. but the us to say that it is. but the bigger issue actually bigger issue isn't actually

about across the about people coming across the channel. lawful channel. it's about lawful migration, which is what peter was talking people coming was talking about. people coming here in here lawfully and coming in numbers that they numbers that mean that they can't be assimilated can't possibly be assimilated into economy in into a functioning economy in any timeline. and i think any real timeline. and i think that the thing to think about from that perspective is that when people told us during the labour years, when at least people were about the people were direct about the fact they wanted higher immigration into this country, they told us that it would result in fixing our skill shortage and were plugging unemployment have the unemployment gap. we have the same shortage now that we same skill shortage now that we did then after allowing millions of net migration in to this country. since that began in and we have the same sort even in a tight economy, we still have the same level of unemployment as we do. and these these things actually back. the whole actually come back. the whole protten — actually come back. the whole problem .migration- actually come back. the whole problem .migration and - f f f the whole problem migration and like f f f the whole prcmany migration and like f f f the whole prcmany othernigration and like f f f the whole prc many other problems, nd like f f f the whole prc many other problems, comee so many other problems, come tect— so many other problems, come back misgovernment of back to the misgovernment of mte— back to the misgovernment of tnte-tne— back to the misgovernment of this-the failure- back to the misgovernment of this-the failure of- back to the misgovernment of this the failure of its this country, the failure of its etucetton— this country, the failure of its education-to- this country, the failure of its education-to turn- this country, the failure of its education to turn out education system to turn out peopte— education system to turn out peopte-ere— education system to turn out people are capable in many people who are capable in many ot tetng— people who are capable in many cases, of being employed , and cases, of being employed, and the cases, of being employed, and me tetture— cases, of being employed, and the failure of— cases, of being employed, and the failure of our— cases, of being employed, and the failure of our education eyeten — the failure of our education eyeten to— the failure of our education system to train— the failure of our education system to train people in the etttte— system to train people in the etttte met— system to train people in the skills that are _ system to train people in the skills that are actually needed. ant— skills that are actually needed. ant 1t—

skills that are actually needed. ant tt-nuge— skills that are actually needed. ant tt-nuge .— skills that are actually needed. and it huge , huge gap which and it is a huge, huge gap which no gowernnent— and it is a huge, huge gap which no government for— and it is a huge, huge gap which no government for dogmatic reeeonelny— no government for dogmatic reasons my view, is prepared reasons in my view, is prepared to tecme— reasons in my view, is prepared to tectte. so— reasons in my view, is prepared to tackle. so they— reasons in my view, is prepared to tackle. so they turn, they turn — to tackle. so they turn, they turn to — to tackle. so they turn, they turn to migration yet again . turn to migration yet again. we— turn to migration yet again. we tne— turn to migration yet again. it's the failure— turn to migration yet again. it's the failure to do the basic toneettc— it's the failure to do the basic domestic things. _ it's the failure to do the basic domestic things. it's like eonetoty— domestic things. it's like somebody, somebody who can't fix, somebody, somebody who can't ttw wno— somebody, somebody who can't ttw wno cent— somebody, somebody who can't fix, who can't fix— somebody, somebody who can't fix, who can't fix the plumbing or tne— fix, who can't fix the plumbing or tne wtrtng— fix, who can't fix the plumbing or the wiring in— fix, who can't fix the plumbing or the wiring in his house, who tete— or the wiring in his house, who tete tne— or the wiring in his house, who tete tne root— or the wiring in his house, who lets the roof rot.— or the wiring in his house, who lets the roof rot. but who but wno— lets the roof rot. but who but wno engegee— lets the roof rot. but who but wno engegee m— lets the roof rot. but who but who engages in showy gestures to try ent— who engages in showy gestures to try ent grew— who engages in showy gestures to try and draw attention away from the try and draw attention away from tne tect— try and draw attention away from tne tect met— try and draw attention away from the fact that he— try and draw attention away from the fact that he isn't actually any— the fact that he isn't actually eny gooe— the fact that he isn't actually eny goot et— the fact that he isn't actually any good at maintaining his own none.— any good at maintaining his own none. — any good at maintaining his own none. meter— any good at maintaining his own home. peter-ask- any good at maintaining his own home. peter- ask why- any good at maintaining his own home. 7 home. peter may ask why so? because agree with some of the because i agree with some of the points you make the points you make about the outcome. certainly don't think outcome. i certainly don't think immigration fix to the immigration is the fix to the problem we're discussing. why do you just or least you think it's just or at least from just said, it from what you just said, it seems me that you think the seems to me that you think the responsibility lies predominantly or wholly the predominantly or wholly with the state. the word state. i didn't hear the word parent in the children parent once in the children going education that, going through education to that, please. because the for 60 please. well, because the for 60 yeere— please. well, because the for 60 yeere tne — please. well, because the for 60 years the government— well, because the for 60 years the government of both pentee— years the government of both pentee newe— years the government of both parties have successfully undermined— parties have successfully undermined the family as an metttutton— undermined the family as an institution in— undermined the family as an institution in our— undermined the family as an institution in our society . that institution in our society. that toeen-t— institution in our society. that toeen-t een— institution in our society. that doesn't mean you— institution in our society. that doesn't mean you or i could tntnt— doesn't mean you or i could think there's— doesn't mean you or i could think there's especially undermined— think there's especially undermined and weakened marriage

. ant— undermined and weakened marriage . ant ee— undermined and weakened marriage . ant ee e— undermined and weakened marriage . ant ee e reeutt— undermined and weakened marriage . and as a result, many, many peopte— . and as a result, many, many peopte ton-t— . and as a result, many, many people don't have— . and as a result, many, many people don't have the family pectgrounm— people don't have the family background. have background. they would once have net.— background. they would once have net-tne— background. they would once have net-me etete— background. they would once have had.-the state, as— background. they would once have had. the state, as the had. and the state, as the tentty— had. and the state, as the tentty gete— had. and the state, as the family gets weaker, the state gete— family gets weaker, the state gete etronger. — family gets weaker, the state gets stronger. you must have known —tut- gets stronger. you must have known. _but for. gets stronger. you must have. known. _but for your known. but for your but for your purpoeee— known. but for your but for your purpoeee. tet-e— known. but for your but for your purposes, let's assume that meter-e— purposes, let's assume that peter's-right- purposes, let's assume that| peter's-right-all peter's view is right and all tne— peter's view is right and all the politicians— peter's view is right and all the politicians are bad and wrong— the politicians are bad and wrong-newe— the politicians are bad and wrong-have got- the politicians are bad and wrong have got this wrong wrong and have got this wrong are wrong and have got this wrong pet. — wrong and have got this wrong pet. mey— wrong and have got this wrong are bad. okay. all— wrong and have got this wrong are bad. okay. all the politicians have got this wrong and been useless. your and have been useless. from your perspective, and i can perspective, if you and i can still parents have still think parents have a responsibility, they on, responsibility, they failed on, can't think it, but can't we? we can think it, but tegtetetton— can't we? we can think it, but legislation-be- can't we? we can think it, but legislation - be the l legislation whether it be the ttworce — legislation whether it be the divorce laws— legislation whether it be the divorce laws of— legislation whether it be the divorce laws of this country wntcn— divorce laws of this country. which—incredibly which make make it incredibly eeey— which make make it incredibly easy-up— which make make it incrediblyi eeey-up-tne easy to break up marriage, the wettere— easy to break up marriage, the welfare system— easy to break up marriage, the welfare system and the tax eyeten.— welfare system and the tax system, which _ welfare system and the tax system, which does not in any way— system, which does not in any wey—wnol system, which does not in any. wey—wno went way help those parents who want to-tnetr— way help those parents who want to-tnetr on— way help those parents who want to their own children to bring up their own children ent— to bring up their own children ent ectuetty— to bring up their own children and actually encourages parents to—cntttren- and actually encourages parents to_children to. to hand over their children to pett— to hand over their children to pert-ent- to hand over their children to pem-ent we- to hand over their children to- paid-and we .weaken paid strangers and we can weaken the—withdrawal- paid strangers and we can weaken the—withdrawal of- the family. the withdrawal of eutnortty— the family. the withdrawal of authority - adults - the family. the withdrawal of authority adults in authority from adults in ecnoote— authority from adults in schools, streets , authority from adults in- schools,-streets , the schools, on the streets, the wententng— schools, on the streets, the wententng ot— schools, on the streets, the vanishing of the- schools, on the streets, the vanishing of the police. when i growtng— vanishing of the police. when i growtng up— vanishing of the police. when i was growing up this country, was growing up in this country, mere— was growing up in this country, there -fathers_ there were fathers in every nouee— there were fathers in every noueewere-- there were fathers in every house. were policemen on house. there were policemen on every— house. there were policemen on every etreet— house. there were policemen on every street. there— house. there were policemen on every street. there were park teepere— every street. there were park teepere-pert.- every street. there were park keepers park. there keepers in every park. there ereo— eweryl keepers in every park. there. were—on every bus. were conductors on every bus. mere— were conductors on every bus. mere-new.— were conductors on every bus. there-many,-male| there were many, many male teecnere—anti there were many, many male. teachers—and the teachers in the schools. and the wnote— teachers in the schools. and the wnote-ot— teachers in the schools. and the whole _of authority, - teachers in the schools. and the whole of authority, which whole aspect of authority, which pentcuterty— whole aspect of authority, which

particularly _ and - particularly which boys and young— young men encountered, was enormous. transformed the enormous. we've transformed the eoctety— enormous. we've transformed the eoctety ewey— enormous. we've transformed the eoctety ewey tron — enormous. we've transformed the society away from that. we now eee-reeutte. — society away from that. we now see-results. and _ society away from that. we now see results. and rather than see the results. and rather than eeymg— see the results. and rather than eeytng .— see the results. and rather than eeytng . ectuetty— see the results. and rather than saying , actually this a saying, actually this was a ntetete— saying, actually this was a ntetete. we— saying, actually this was a mistake, we carry on doing it. me— mistake, we carry on doing it. tne-wny— mistake, we carry on doing it. tne-wny tn- mistake, we carry on doing it. the why i'm particularly the reason why i'm particularly ennoyet— the reason why i'm particularly annoyed about— the reason why i'm particularly annoyed about this tonight is, as annoyed about this tonight is, ee 1— annoyed about this tonight is, ee 1 eey— annoyed about this tonight is, ee 1 eey. 1— annoyed about this tonight is, ee 1 eey. 1 epent— annoyed about this tonight is, as i say, i spent last week in in as i say, i spent last week in mlprteon— as i say, i spent last week in mlprteon m— as i say, i spent last week in mlprteon tn en— as i say, i spent last week in in prison in an extraordinary in in prison in an extraordinary an extraordinary— in in prison in an extraordinary an extraordinary experiment wntcn— an extraordinary experiment which channel— an extraordinary experiment which channel 4 is conducting in wntcn— which channel 4 is conducting in wntcn mey— which channel 4 is conducting in wntcn tney mey— which channel 4 is conducting in which they they put a number of nmor— which they they put a number of minor celebrities— which they they put a number of minor celebrities such as me in mm— minor celebrities such as me in mm reet— minor celebrities such as me in with real ex—prisoners and real prteon— with real ex—prisoners and real prteon otttcere— with real ex—prisoners and real prison officers very prison officers in a very, very ctoee— prison officers in a very, very close similitude_ prison officers in a very, very close similitude of what real prteon— close similitude of what real prteon woutt— close similitude of what real prison would be— close similitude of what real prison would be like. and what i came away with— prison would be like. and what i came away with was a very strong teettng— came away with was a very strong teettng met.— came away with was a very strong teettng tnet. ot— came away with was a very strong feeling that, of course there's nucn— feeling that, of course there's nucn-wttn— feeling that, of course there's much _with our- feeling that, of course there's much with our prisons, but much wrong with our prisons, but noetty—our- mostly what's wrong with our prteone— mostly what's wrong with our prteoneltnet— mostly what's wrong with our prisons-that into- mostly what's wrong with our prisons that into them feed prisons is that into them feed all prisons is that into them feed ett tneee— prisons is that into them feed all these channels of failed gowernnent— all these channels of failed gowernnent .— all these channels of failed government . what you in government. what you find in prteon— government. what you find in prteonle— government. what you find in prison-a result— government. what you find in prison-a result of- government. what you find in prison a result of stupid, prison is a result of stupid, unnecessary pursued prison is a result of stupid,- unnecessary-pursued for unnecessary policies pursued for neny— unnecessary policies pursued for neny yee— unnecessary policies pursued for neny ye not— unnecessary policies pursued for many years, not stopped and not connect.— many years, not stopped and not retornet. not— many years, not stopped and not reformed, not moderated by the euppoeet— reformed, not moderated by the supposed conservative party, but ectuetty— supposed conservative party, but actually supported by where are we turn— actually supported by where are we turn m— actually supported by where are we turn 11 we— actually supported by where are we turn if we want— actually supported by where are we turn if we want to actually eet— we turn if we want to actually eet our— we turn if we want to actually set our society— we turn if we want to actually set our society back on the eenettte— set our society back on the sensible route— set our society back on the sensible route that it was on 50 yeere— sensible route that it was on 50 yeere ego— sensible route that it was on 50 yeere ego ent— sensible route that it was on 50 years ago and turn— sensible route that it was on 50 years ago and turn away from tneee— years ago and turn away from tneee etupm— years ago and turn away from these stupid social experiments,

wno— these stupid social experiments, wno-turn— these stupid social experiments, wno-turn-t- these stupid social experiments, who-turn-i know- these stupid social experiments,- who _turn-i know nobody who do we turn to? i know nobody there . know wants us there. i know michelle wants us to on. so just make the to move on. so i just make the point, seems in all that point, it seems in all of that you still think that you're a big person. you still big government person. you still think in the end, government is the to the responsibility the answer to the responsibility and driver. government and the main driver. government goernrnente— and the main driver. government gowernnente-e— and the main driver. government governments-a difference.i and the main driver. government gcistrnments-a difference.i and the main driver. government gcistrnyou ts-a difference.i 511“: 1“ 1: ” government gcistrnyou look a difference. 511“: 1“ 1: ” government gcistrnyou look if a difference. 1: 1“ 1: ” government gcistrnyou look if youiifference. 1: 1“ 1: ” government gcistrnyou look if you trace nce. it is if you look if you trace tneee— it is if you look if you trace these changes,— it is if you look if you trace these changes, originate in these changes, they originate in tegtetetton. — these changes, they originate in legislation. originate in legislation. they originate in texetton— legislation. they originate in taxation policy. _ legislation. they originate in taxation policy. and they they ortgtnete— taxation policy. and they they originate-policy- originate in welfare policy and mey— originate in welfare policy and tney—tne— originate in welfare policy and they—the result- originate in welfare policy and they—the result of. they have been the result of gowernnent— they have been the result of government-you . government action. if you tneretore— government action. if you therefore _them - government action. if you therefore them right, therefore to put them right, you meet— therefore to put them right, you need government— therefore to put them right, you need government action. i unueretenu— need government action. i understand that's- need government action. i understand that's your perspective. but you reverse perspective. but if you reverse the perspective. but if you reverse tne-tt— perspective. but if you reverse tne-tt you— perspective. but if you reverse tne-tt you etop- the mistakes, if you stop tettewtng— the mistakes, if you stop believing individual believing in individual responsibility, being the prtnery— responsibility, being the - prtnery—tntnge responsibility, being the - primarend_things, responsibility, being the- primarend you _things, responsibility, being the primarend you keep things, responsibility, being the primarend you keep dreaming of in the end you keep dreaming of eyetene. — in the end you keep dreaming of eyetene. so— in the end you keep dreaming of systems. so perfect— in the end you keep dreaming of systems. f 1“1: systems. so perfect that mankind has any longer, any need has no need any longer, any need to and that is not to be good. and that is not true. you can't accuse me of met.— true. you can't accuse me of tnet. tn— true. you can't accuse me of tnet. tn tne— you can't accuse me of that. i'm the opposite. absolutely— that. i'm the opposite. absolutely anti utopian. used absolutely anti utopian. i used to—ent— absolutely anti utopian. i used to—ent twe- to be a utopian and i've conptetety— to be a utopian and i've completely rejected it. you've gone— completely rejected it. you've gone em— completely rejected it. you've gone ett tne— completely rejected it. you've gone all the way— completely rejected it. you've gone all the way round to the tect— gone all the way round to the peck-two— gone all the way round to the back two extremes. .11�*~11.11:;11:;. back of the two extremes. meet rounu — back of the two extremes. meet round-tect- — back of the two extremes. meet round - back. no, - back of the two extremes. meet round - back. no, they - round the back. no, they eteotutety— round the back. no, they absolutely-you. round the back. no, they. absolutely-you can't. absolutely do not. you can't. vou— absolutely do not. you can't. you-vou— absolutely do not. you can't. you-you can't- absolutely do not. you can't. you you can't describe me you can't. you can't describe me as you can't. you can't describe me ee eoctet— you can't. you can't describe me as social conservative and angttcen— as social conservative and anglican christian as as anglican christian as a as a tognettc— anglican christian as a as a dogmatic utopian. it's a nonsense . i'm- dogmatic utopian. it's a nonsense . i'm absolutely the nonsense. i'm absolutely the oppoette— nonsense. i'm absolutely the

oppoette ot— nonsense. i'm absolutely the opposite of things . and opposite of those things. and it's opposite of those things. and tt-eleteum— opposite of those things. and it's-absurd jibe,- opposite of those things. and it's absurd jibe, which just it's an absurd jibe, which just mnerne- 11— it's an absurd jibe, which just runs-me. if you're- it's an absurd jibe, which just runs me. if you're going to runs off me. if you're going to ergue— runs off me. if you're going to ergue-tnte— runs off me. if you're going to argue this seriously, you argue about this seriously, you newe— argue about this seriously, you have-understand— argue about this seriously, you have understand that his have to understand that his gowernnent— have to understand that his government and government decisions and pottctee— government decisions and policies taken— government decisions and policies taken particularly enter— policies taken particularly after-1960s, - policies taken particularly after 1960s, which have after the 1960s, which have cnenget— after the 1960s, which have cnenget our— after the 1960s, which have changed our society beyond all recognttton— changed our society beyond all recognition and— changed our society beyond all recognition and don't put recognition and if you don't put men— recognition and if you don't put men-men— recognition and if you don't put them _then those - recognition and if you don't put them then those changes them right, then those changes wit— them right, then those changes will continue— them right, then those changes will continue to— them right, then those changes will continue to rot our society as will continue to rot our society ee tney-re — will continue to rot our society as they're doing. _ will continue to rot our society as they're doing. 3 as they're doing. have we gone too though? all well too far, though? it's all well and it? talking and good, isn't it? talking about gone about things that have gone wrong. is the future wrong. but what is the future when it comes to going forward? and we're talking about families as this as well. we started this conversation talking conversation by talking about people, crossing people, for example, crossing the what i can't i can the channel what i can't i can never seem to take my eyes off the fact that actually are the fact that actually where are those families? if those people's families? if everyone know, in everyone is so, you know, in dire straits about to be persecuted and all the rest of it, why have they left their families back wherever it is that from? always i that they've come from? always i find very, odd. would find that very, very odd. would you leave your family behind? i certainly wouldn't. and maybe what peter says perhaps is right . maybe families have been eroded not just overseas, but perhaps in this country as well. your thoughts on all that? don't

go anywhere, though. i've got it all coming up for you. public sector, pay sector, should they get pay rises forward? how much rises going forward? how much homelessness ever homelessness can we ever eradicate it? winston eradicate it? and winston churchill , why does he keep churchill, why does he keep getting called and why supremacist? accurate or

9:00 only on gb news britain's news . channel hello there. news. channel hello there. welcome to dewbs& co me news. channel hello there. - welcome to dewbs& co me michelle dewberry— welcome to dewbs& co me michelle pewterry tttt— welcome to dewbs& co me michelle dewberry till seven— welcome to dewbs& co me michelle dewberry till seven alongside me the dewberry till seven alongside me me cotunntet— dewberry till seven alongside me the columnist for— dewberry till seven alongside me the columnist for the mail on sunny.— the columnist for the mail on suntey. meter— the columnist for the mail on sunday, peter hitchens, and the pottttcet— sunday, peter hitchens, and the political consultant alex deane. tote— political consultant alex deane. tote ot— political consultant alex deane. tote ot your— political consultant alex deane. lots of your thoughts coming in. tote— lots of your thoughts coming in. tote ot— lots of your thoughts coming in. lots of appreciation you lots of appreciation for you two genttenen—tol lots of appreciation for you ton gentlemen _to say gentlemen tonight. i have to say tote— gentlemen tonight. i have to say totelttwttet— gentlemen tonight. i have to say lots divided opinions as well lots of divided opinions as well etout— lots of divided opinions as well etout wno— lots of divided opinions as well about who they— lots of divided opinions as well about who they agree with and notw— about who they agree with and not-e— about who they agree with and none tot— about who they agree with and none tot ot— about who they agree with and not, a lot of appreciation not, but a lot of appreciation on wnen— not, but a lot of appreciation on men m— not, but a lot of appreciation on when it comes— not, but a lot of appreciation on when it comes to russia. lots of on when it comes to russia. lots ot you— on when it comes to russia. lots on you egetn— on when it comes to russia. lots of you again, divided , some of you again, divided, some eeymg— of you again, divided, some eeytng we— of you again, divided, some saying we need— of you again, divided, some saying we need to just butt out, ettct— saying we need to just butt out, ettct wttn— saying we need to just butt out, stick with domestic issues. otter— stick with domestic issues. otner peopte— stick with domestic issues. other people saying we can never do other people saying we can never to enougn— other people saying we can never to enougn tor— other people saying we can never do enough for ukraine. and teetcetty— do enough for ukraine. and basically, the— do enough for ukraine. and basically, the sooner that that ettuetton— basically, the sooner that that situation gets— basically, the sooner that that situation gets resolved, the better— situation gets resolved, the better .— situation gets resolved, the tetter . mn.— situation gets resolved, the better. um, rwanda. michael

eeye— better. um, rwanda. michael eeye. 1— better. um, rwanda. michael eeye. 1 ton-t— better. um, rwanda. michael says. i don't believe we will ever see a plane— says. i don't believe we will ever see a plane being deported to twente— ever see a plane being deported to rwanda. the— ever see a plane being deported to rwanda. the lawyers would ettow— to rwanda. the lawyers would never allow it.— to rwanda. the lawyers would never allow it. lydia says. it's all never allow it. lydia says. it's ett etout— never allow it. lydia says. it's all about this— never allow it. lydia says. it's all about this whole conversation when it comes to ntgretton— conversation when it comes to ntgretton .— conversation when it comes to ntgretton . ten— conversation when it comes to migration , ian is— conversation when it comes to migration , ian is basically all migration, ian is basically all etout— migration, ian is basically all about inflation.— migration, ian is basically all about inflation. you're saying mte— about inflation. you're saying we te— about inflation. you're saying we te tuet— about inflation. you're saying we te tuet e— about inflation. you're saying this is just a conversation to detect— this is just a conversation to distract from _ this is just a conversation to distract from the— this is just a conversation to distract from the fact that tnttetton — distract from the fact that inflation is— distract from the fact that inflation is out- distract from the fact that inflation is out of control? you tntnt— inflation is out of control? you tth ett— inflation is out of control? you think all this— inflation is out of control? you think all this conversation etout— think all this conversation about costings— think all this conversation about costings for rwandan tttgnte— about costings for rwandan flights, you're— about costings for rwandan flights, you're not having any of flights, you're not having any ot tt— flights, you're not having any ot p, tote— flights, you're not having any of it, lots of— flights, you're not having any of it, lots of you— flights, you're not having any of it, lots of you not really tthmg— of it, lots of you not really thinking that— of it, lots of you not really thinking that that's rwanda tttgnt— thinking that that's rwanda tttgnt wttt— thinking that that's rwanda flight will ever, ever happen. tet-e— flight will ever, ever happen. tet-e tett— flight will ever, ever happen. let's talk public— flight will ever, ever happen. let's talk public sector pay, enett— let's talk public sector pay, enett wee— let's talk public sector pay, shall we? because rishi sunak , shall we? because rishi sunak, he shall we? because rishi sunak, ne nee— shall we? because rishi sunak, me me teen— shall we? because rishi sunak, he has been suggesting that he ntgnt— he has been suggesting that he ntgnt mock— he has been suggesting that he might block public sector pay reee— might block public sector pay . mte— might block public sector pay rises . this is— might block public sector pay rises . this is all— might block public sector pay rises . this is all off might block public sector pay rises. this is all off the back of rises. this is all off the back ot tne— rises. this is all off the back on me pey— rises. this is all off the back of the pay review— rises. this is all off the back of the pay review bodies. yeah. wnet— of the pay review bodies. yeah. wnetltount— of the pay review bodies. yeah. whatifound quite— of the pay review bodies. yeah. what found quite interesting what i found quite interesting tect— what i found quite interesting tect m— what i found quite interesting was back in december, you know, the was back in december, you know, tne gowernnent— was back in december, you know, the government saying pay is the government was saying pay is not—teeue— the government was saying pay is not—teeuelue- not really an issue for us tecuee— not really an issue for us because-leave- not really an issue for us because leave it to these pay because we leave it to these pay tottee—tegetty- bodies. they're not legally otttget— bodies. they're not legally obliged-accept- obliged to accept the recommendations of these bodies. and recommendations of these bodies. ant—te- recommendations of these bodies. and—is basicallyi and now rishi sunak is basically eeymg— and now rishi sunak is basically saying-r— and now rishi sunak is basically eeymg-. you— and now rishi sunak is basically eeymg-. you know.- and now rishi sunak is basically saying , you know, we saying actually, you know, we ntgnt— saying actually, you know, we ntgnt not— saying actually, you know, we ntgnt not te— saying actually, you know, we might not be able to accept the next— might not be able to accept the next - because _ might not be able to accept the next because times are next round because times are ttgnt— next round because times are ttgntltut— next round because times are ttgntltut-cen- next round because times are tighthut-can see- next round because times are tight but can see why you

tight, but you can see why you ntgnt— tight, but you can see why you ntgnt tete— tight, but you can see why you might take that— tight, but you can see why you might take that position, tecuee— might take that position, because after— might take that position, because after all of the demands to-tneee— because after all of the demands to-tneee et— because after all of the demands to-these at least— because after all of the demands to these at least advisory to take these at least advisory rotee— to take these at least advisory roles outside— to take these at least advisory roles outside of— to take these at least advisory roles outside of government and ge— roles outside of government and gtwe men— roles outside of government and gtwe men to— roles outside of government and gtwe men to e— roles outside of government and give them to a third party body . met-e— give them to a third party body . tnet-e wnet— give them to a third party body , that's what government did for better— , that's what government did for better or— , that's what government did for better or worse,— , that's what government did for better or worse, they created tneee— better or worse, they created tneee pey— better or worse, they created these pay sector— better or worse, they created these pay sector review bodies. they— these pay sector review bodies. trey-out— these pay sector review bodies. trey-out wttn— these pay sector review bodies. they-out with their- they came out with their conclusions and the union said , conclusions and the union said, we like it. we're going to we don't like it. we're going to go strike anyway. well, what go on strike anyway. well, what was point of through was the point of going through that was going that exercise if that was going to be? and then they demanded they had the negotiation directly government. i directly with government. so, i mean, you must look at mean, you must you must look at that yourself, what that and think to yourself, what possibly the a possibly would be the point? a and at we wound up and look at where we wound up with the public sector unions. admittedly, not of it's admittedly, not all of it's finished yet, like the nurses. but, we where we but, you know, we know where we are would you commit are now. why would you commit yourself to having the situation with bodies so i can with the bodies now? so i can see government's taking that see why government's taking that position on principle, but i want a different point. want to make a different point. i'm actually given where inflation i think inflation is at. i think realistically you maintain realistically you can't maintain they pay rise they shouldn't get any pay rise in the public sector notwithstanding the more generous pensions. it's just realistic. to be realistic. there are going to be some of pay rises in the some kind of pay rises in the pubuc some kind of pay rises in the public sector. the most important isn't pay

important thing isn't the pay rises. headcount. it's the rises. it's headcount. it's the explosion in the number of civil servants. and if government did something a conservative something a bit conservative about reducing that, it seems to me that you could allow a reasonable amount of pay rise for servants whilst still for civil servants whilst still keeping the overall cost down. so for me, whatever they do with the got to be the the bodies, that's got to be the number peter well, number one route. peter well, i'm about this, but i'm very sorry about this, but the origins of this crisis are in the panicked response to covid in march 2020, when i predicted repeatedly that the policy of the government would lead to severe inflation and grave economic problems for this country, i haven't even got an o—level in economics, but it was obvious to me that this was this was going to happen. it should have been obvious— was going to happen. it should have been obvious to- 131131 “3 1“ it should have been obvious to the gowernnent — have been obvious to the government. been government. it should have been otwtoue— government. it should have been otwtoueltne— government. it should have been obvious the treasury. they obvious to the treasury. they tecttet— obvious to the treasury. they tecmet to— obvious to the treasury. they tecmet to go— obvious to the treasury. they decided to go ahead with the pentc— decided to go ahead with the pentc enywey— decided to go ahead with the panic anyway. they've got panic anyway. they've now got mttetton—te- panic anyway. they've now got inflation _ is a l inflation when it comes is a potte— inflation when it comes is a pottte-tor— inflation when it comes is a polite for robbery. polite word for robbery. what neppene—nttei polite word for robbery. what. neppene—ntte you happens when inflation hits you is happens when inflation hits you te your— happens when inflation hits you te your wegee— happens when inflation hits you is your wages shrivel, your eewtnge— is your wages shrivel, your savings shrivel— is your wages shrivel, your- savings shrivel-suddenly savings shrivel and you suddenly become— savings shrivel and you suddenly| tecone—m become poorer? those who are in a become poorer? those who are in e poettton— become poorer? those who are in e poettton to— become poorer? those who are in e poettton to to— become poorer? those who are in a position to do anything about it, a position to do anything about p, you— a position to do anything about p, you cen— a position to do anything about tt. you cenee-y- a position to do anything about it, you can say they it, you can hardly say they enoumn-t— it, you can hardly say they shouldn't would you

shouldn't do it. would you retner— shouldn't do it. would you retner-e— shouldn't do it. would you rather-a society- shouldn't do it. would you rather a society where the rather have a society where the ntgnt— rather have a society where the rtgntlteer— rather have a society where the rtgntlteer-or- rather have a society where the right-bear-or a- rather have a society where the right bear or a society right to bear arms or a society wttn— right to bear arms or a society wttn-rtgnt— right to bear arms or a society wttn-rtgnt to— right to bear arms or a society with right to strike and with the right to strike and wttntrew— with the right to strike and withdraw labour? i to withdraw labour? i have to say i tntnt— withdraw labour? i have to say i tth-rtgnt— withdraw labour? i have to say i tth-rtgnt to- withdraw labour? i have to say i think right to withdraw think that the right to withdraw tetour— think that the right to withdraw tetourle— think that the right to withdraw tetourle te— think that the right to withdraw tetourle te e— think that the right to withdraw labour a is a safer and more labour is a is a safer and more tenocrettc— labour is a is a safer and more democratic one.— labour is a is a safer and more democratic one. i— labour is a is a safer and more democratic one. i have to say i ton-t— democratic one. i have to say i met gree— democratic one. i have to say i don't agree. instance, don't agree. for instance, i tntnt— don't agree. for instance, i think-should- don't agree. for instance, i think should have a think doctors should have a etrme. — think doctors should have a strike.idon't_ think doctors should have a strike. don't think nurses strike. i don't think nurses enoutt— strike. i don't think nurses should have— strike. i don't think nurses should have a— strike. i don't think nurses should have a strike. i think tt-e— should have a strike. i think tt-e eteum— should have a strike. i think it's absurd should it's absurd that they should even-rt.— it's absurd that they should even-tt-tt even consider it, because if youre— even consider it, because if youe tt— even consider it, because if youre tt your— even consider it, because if you're if your job is mercy, you cent— you're if your job is mercy, you cen-t you— you're if your job is mercy, you cen-t you cent— you're if your job is mercy, you can't you can't withhold it. but otner— can't you can't withhold it. but other—entitled- can't you can't withhold it. but other—entitled to. other people are entitled to say,— other people are entitled to say-going— other people are entitled to eey-gotng to- other people are entitled to say, going to get what we say, we're going to get what we out— say, we're going to get what we out ot— say, we're going to get what we can out of the— say, we're going to get what we can out of the inevitable chaos of can out of the inevitable chaos ot—nototy- of inflation. but nobody ever toote— of inflation. but nobody ever mote—ot- looks at the causes of inflation. _ looks at the causes of inflation. they just say, here's mte— inflation. they just say, here's tnte-we-re- inflation. they just say, here's this-we're going- inflation. they just say, here's this we're going to this inflation. we're going to geueee— this inflation. we're going to egueezelout— this inflation. we're going to squeeze out economy this inflation. we're going to- squeezelout-economy by squeeze it out of the economy by puttmg— squeeze it out of the economy by putttng up— squeeze it out of the economy by putttng up-prtce— squeeze it out of the economy by putting up price money, putting up the price of money, wntcn—to- putting up the price of money, wntcn—to te- putting up the price of money, which—to be a. putting up the price of money,- which_to be a pretty which seems to me to be a pretty crezy— which seems to me to be a pretty crezy wey— which seems to me to be a pretty crezy wey ot— which seems to me to be a pretty crazy way of inflation, crazy way of reducing inflation, if crazy way of reducing inflation, tt—you-re— crazy way of reducing inflation, if_you're aiming. crazy way of reducing inflation, if you're aiming to if that's what you're aiming to do. if that's what you're aiming to rte-peopte— if that's what you're aiming to do.-people faced- if that's what you're aiming to do. people faced this do. and people faced with this newe— do. and people faced with this me to— do. and people faced with this me to to— do. and people faced with this have to do and— do. and people faced with this have to do and are bound do have to do and are bound to do wnet— have to do and are bound to do wnet-cen— have to do and are bound to do wnet-cen to- have to do and are bound to do wnet-cen to try- have to do and are bound to do what-can to try andi what what they can to try and euetem— what what they can to try and euetetn or— what what they can to try and euetetn or get— what what they can to try and sustain or get back something of metr— sustain or get back something of their-employers,- their income. if employers, wnetner—ori their income. if employers,- whether_or private, whether government or private, tete — whether government or private, tete tete— whether government or private, tete tete tne— whether government or private, take take the opportunity to try and take take the opportunity to try end—tne- and to try and reduce the uete— and to try and reduce the. numbers-working, and to try and reduce the- numbers-working, then numbers of people working, then you can— numbers of people working, then you can see quite,— numbers of people working, then you can see quite, quite easily why,— you can see quite, quite easily why-instance,— you can see quite, quite easily why, instance, railwaymen why, for instance, railwaymen win—dom- will say, well, we don't particularly— will say, well, we don't particularly why, because particularly see why, because you-ve—tms- you've caused all this inflation. _ you've caused all this -

inflation. _opportunity you've caused all this - inflati0|to-opportunity you've caused all this- inflati0|to get-opportunity you've caused all this inflati0|to get rid opportunity you've caused all this inflati0|to get rid of)pportunity you've caused all this inflati0|to get rid of railway1ity for you to get rid of railway workers. it's— for you to get rid of railway workers. it's a— for you to get rid of railway workers. it's a it's a it's one of the— workers. it's a it's a it's one of the reasons— workers. it's a it's a it's one of the reasons why you should never-embarked- of the reasons why you should never embarked on never have embarked on the policy— never have embarked on the policy-ted— never have embarked on the policy-ledlthe- policy which led to the inflation _first i policy which led to the inflation first place. inflation in the first place. one— inflation in the first place. one-reasons- inflation in the first place. one reasons why the this one of the reasons why the this inquiry,— one of the reasons why the this inquiry—inquiry- inquiry, this useless inquiry now-place-tol now taking place needs to actually— now taking place needs to actually concentrate whether actually concentrate on whether the—close— actually concentrate on whether the _close down - actually concentrate on whether the close down the the decision to close down the country— the decision to close down the country-spend— the decision to close down the country spend gazillions of country and spend gazillions of money— country and spend gazillions of money we— country and spend gazillions of money we don-o— country and spend gazillions of money we don't possess was a mistake. — money we don't possess was a mistake. well,— money we don't possess was a mistake. well, that's that's whore— mistake. well, that's that's where io— mistake. well, that's that's where it all— mistake. well, that's that's where it all originated. let's say. — where it all originated. let's say vee— where it all originated. let's say yes. io— where it all originated. let's say. yes, it was. - where it all originated. let's say. yes, it was. but- where it all originated. let's say. /is c f say. yes, it was. but back to the doctors. five days strike in coming in july , the longest. coming in july, the longest. i think these have gone think these doctors have gone out talk about out for. we talk about inflation, 8.7. it stayed at these guys want a 35% and they're going to down tools until they get some at close to it seems to me that their demand just as a matter of practise in practise their demands are perverse. for 35% in these circumstances— perverse. for 35% in these circumstances .— for 35% in these circumstances . but if we ignore circumstances. but if we ignore the eceue— circumstances. but if we ignore the actual practical question of whee-e— the actual practical question of weeo-e happening— the actual practical question of what's happening on the ground and took— what's happening on the ground and took oo— what's happening on the ground and look at the— what's happening on the ground and look at the principle that peter— and look at the principle that peter woe— and look at the principle that peter was talking about, i admit owee— peter was talking about, i admit woo ewere-e— peter was talking about, i admit woo ewere-e o— peter was talking about, i admit that there's a weakness in my position— that there's a weakness in my position because— that there's a weakness in my position because i think that these— position because i think that these individuals should have these individuals should have the wow— these individuals should have the wow oo—

these individuals should have the right to strike. but bearing in mine— the right to strike. but bearing in mine oe— the right to strike. but bearing in mine as w— the right to strike. but bearing in mind as i seek— the right to strike. but bearing in mind as i seek to do their duty— in mind as i seek to do their duty owe— in mind as i seek to do their duty and their— in mind as i seek to do their duty and their sense of woeooow— duty and their sense of vocation, it— duty and their sense of vocation, it should almost never be weeo.— vocation, it should almost never be weeo. wow— vocation, it should almost never be weeo. bow .— vocation, it should almost never be used. now, i know that's a oboe-e— be used. now, i know that's a bbob-e o— be used. now, i know that's a bbob-e o eoey— be used. now, i know that's a that's a easy one.— be used. now, i know that's a that's a easy one. it's easy for me— that's a easy one. it's easy for me bo— that's a easy one. it's easy for me to eey— that's a easy one. it's easy for me to soy rm— that's a easy one. it's easy for me to say i'm not— that's a easy one. it's easy for me to say i'm not a doctor. and two:— me to say i'm not a doctor. and two, b— me to say i'm not a doctor. and two, b may— me to say i'm not a doctor. and two, it may seem— me to say i'm not a doctor. and two, it may seem perverse to ewggeeb— two, it may seem perverse to ewggeeb oboe— two, it may seem perverse to suggest that someone should have a suggest that someone should have o wobb— suggest that someone should have o wgbb bub— suggest that someone should have a right, but almost— suggest that someone should have a right, but almost use a right, but almost never use it. a right, but almost never use b. bub— a right, but almost never use b. bub oboe-e— a right, but almost never use it. but that's where the force oflwobbo— it. but that's where the force oflwould come— it. but that's where the force of would come and the of it would come from. and the mbe— of it would come from. and the number-medical— of it would come from. and the number medical strikes we're number of medical strikes we're nowng— number of medical strikes we're having discussed— number of medical strikes we're having discussed at the moment is having discussed at the moment be neobby— having discussed at the moment be neobby owne— having discussed at the moment is really quite profound. and in our—views will- is really quite profound. and in our—views will be. our country, my views will be bebenbng— our country, my views will be listening-and- our country, my views will be listening and they'll listening to you and they'll be enombng— listening to you and they'll be shouting-screens,- listening to you and they'll be shouting screens, talking shouting at the screens, talking abom— shouting at the screens, talking about. hippocratic- shouting at the screens, talking about hippocratic oath, about the hippocratic oath, abom— about the hippocratic oath,- about—they about the hippocratic oath,- obom—mey wbu about first dumas. and they will have deal of force to have a great deal of force to what they say. and that's why i say what they say. and that's why i eoy-bn— what they say. and that's why i eoy-bn mbe — what they say. and that's why i say - in true extreme - and that's why i say in true extreme artists say only in true extreme artists enonbo— say only in true extreme artists enonbo-ono— say only in true extreme artists should-and nurses- should doctors and nurses wnnomw— should doctors and nurses withdraw labour. i would withdraw their labour. i would say withdraw their labour. i would eoy .— withdraw their labour. i would say never. i would- say never. i would say absolutely i not think absolutely never. i do not think i do not doctors or nurses i do not think doctors or nurses should a strike. should have a strike. i appreciate that. obviously, we have to account of that in have to take account of that in the we pay we have to the way we pay them. we have to obviously pay them on the assumption not assumption that they have not got we have to got that freedom. so we have to be generous we would be more generous than we would be more generous than we would be to other people. it. be to other people. look at it. they themselves, is simply they themselves, it is simply morally wrong for somebody whose

business i understand business is i understand your position not doing position to say i'm not doing any to you today any mercy to you today because i'm strike. yes, i understand i'm on strike. yes, i understand your position. intolerable, eon-b— your position. intolerable, bomb—mom- your position. intolerable,- don't-from looking at don't you think, from looking at it don't you think, from looking at n from — don't you think, from looking at it from .other_ don't you think, from looking at it from .other point- don't you think, from looking at it from other point view, it from the other point of view, mob—eoee- it from the other point of view, that—case thati that it might be the case that if that it might be the case that m-me— that it might be the case that if-are willing- that it might be the case that if-are willing to- that it might be the case that if are willing to strike if people are willing to strike at if people are willing to strike on one— if people are willing to strike at the regularity, they're threatening _ at the regularity, they're threatening and threatening it.7 we're hiring and mammo— threatening it.7 we're hiring and mommy-wrong— threatening it.7 we're hiring and training wrong people to be training the wrong people to be ooebone— training the wrong people to be doctors-nurses— training the wrong people to be doctors nurses first doctors and nurses in the first bboee. — doctors and nurses in the first one. webb— doctors and nurses in the first place. well, i'm— doctors and nurses in the first place. well, i'm that- doctors and nurses in the first place. well, i'm that may so place. well, i'm that may be so i'm going throw that one open i'm going to throw that one open to you. do you think, for exomobe— do you think, for example, doctors, medical staff enonbo— example, doctors, medical staff enonbolobbe— example, doctors, medical staff should-able-on- example, doctors, medical staff should able on strike? should be able to go on strike? ano— should be able to go on strike? one be— should be able to go on strike? me n nob,— should be able to go on strike? and if not, how— should be able to go on strike? and if not, how do— should be able to go on strike? and if not, how do they get the wee— and if not, how do they get the mob— and if not, how do they get the mob obey— and if not, how do they get the rise that they think that they beeewe — rise that they think that they beeewe-bob- rise that they think that they deserve for example, deserve and is 35, for example, in deserve and is 35, for example, bn-beobbebbe— deserve and is 35, for example, in-realistic in- deserve and is 35, for example, in _realistic in the - in doctors realistic in the men— in doctors realistic in the men-vow- in doctors realistic in the first your thoughts first place? your thoughts on all first place? your thoughts on ebb ob— first place? your thoughts on ebb of mem— first place? your thoughts on all of that? iwant- first place? your thoughts on all of that? want to talk to all of that? i want to talk to you— all of that? i want to talk to you abom— all of that? i want to talk to you about winston churchill new. — you about winston churchill new. _bo- you about winston churchill next.-to call- you about winston churchill next. to call him a next. is it right to call him a wnbbe— next. is it right to call him a white supremacist? you tell me

hello there. i'm michelle bewbeny— hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with - hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till seven oboneeboe — dewberry with you till seven alongside me,— dewberry with you till seven alongside me, columnist for the mob— alongside me, columnist for the web on— alongside me, columnist for the mail on sunday,— alongside me, columnist for the mail on sunday, peter hitchens ono— mail on sunday, peter hitchens and bounce— mail on sunday, peter hitchens and political consultant alex been. — and political consultant alex been. bee-e— and political consultant alex dean. let's talk,— and political consultant alex dean. let's talk, shall we? anebon— dean. let's talk, shall we? winston churchill , jill saint

winston churchill, jill saint bow-e— winston churchill, jill saint paul's cathedral in london that has paul's cathedral in london that be ome— paul's cathedral in london that has come under— paul's cathedral in london that has come under a— paul's cathedral in london that has come under a spot of bother. i has come under a spot of bother. b eon— has come under a spot of bother. b beb— has come under a spot of bother. b bebb yon— has come under a spot of bother. i can tell you, because it had an i can tell you, because it had on onbebe— i can tell you, because it had an article about— i can tell you, because it had an article about winston cnwenbbb— an article about winston churchill on— an article about winston churchill on its website. and as part— churchill on its website. and as ban on— churchill on its website. and as ban on be,— churchill on its website. and as ban on be, bney— churchill on its website. and as part of it, they described him, among— part of it, they described him, omonoee—- part of it, they described him, omonoee— o- part of it, they described him,| among—as a white among other things, as a white ewwemoebeb— supremacist, unashamed bmbenobben— supremacist, unashamed imperialist. and it goes on. mere-e— imperialist. and it goes on. there's been— imperialist. and it goes on. there's been big complaints, and obey-we— there's been big complaints, and now they've edited— there's been big complaints, and now they've edited that text. ano— now they've edited that text. and basically— now they've edited that text. and basically he— now they've edited that text. and basically he now they've eobo— and basically he now they've eobo mob— and basically he now they've said that when— and basically he now they've said that when you view him tnougn— said that when you view him throughlmodern- said that when you view him through modern lens , you could through a modern lens, you could mne— through a modern lens, you could bbno mob— through a modern lens, you could bbno mob ne— through a modern lens, you could find that he was— through a modern lens, you could find that he was a— through a modern lens, you could find that he was a bit controversial. but this for me is controversial. but this for me be me— controversial. but this for me be me beene— controversial. but this for me be me .— controversial. but this for me is the issue . why— controversial. but this for me is the issue . why are we messing is the issue. why are we messing mound— is the issue. why are we messing mound .— is the issue. why are we messing mound , abew— is the issue. why are we messing around , alex, in— is the issue. why are we messing around , alex, in today's around, alex, in today's eoebeby— around, alex, in today's society, looking backwards and applying— society, looking backwards and applying modem— society, looking backwards and applying modern societal values on beobbe— applying modern societal values on beobbe mob— applying modern societal values on people that actually we've got on people that actually we've gob o— on people that actually we've gob o bob— on people that actually we've gob o bob bo— on people that actually we've got a lot to say. _ on people that actually we've got a lot to say. thank you for. why— got a lot to say. thank you for. wny obe— got a lot to say. thank you for. wny we— got a lot to say. thank you for. wny we eo— got a lot to say. thank you for. why are we so determined to pick mem— why are we so determined to pick bbem obone — why are we so determined to pick them apart? because— why are we so determined to pick them apart? f : them apart? because we reward offence. archaeology because we pay offence. archaeology because we pay people to be grifters in this space and make a full time living, going around finding faults in people. and the reason then that this becomes so high profile in this example is that we are now rewarding them to tear down the very best, our

best prime minister who distinguished himself in circumstances of existential threat for our country when we faced the in our darkest hour. so we shouldn't let them get away with it. but moreover, we should recognise why it's being driven. it's being driven like this because me people make a living bringing these kinds of complaints. it's living bringing these kinds of complaints . it's the rewriting complaints. it's the rewriting of nbebony— complaints. it's the rewriting of nbebony .— complaints. it's the rewriting of nbebony. n-e— complaints. it's the rewriting of history. it's the- {wibi it's the rewriting of history . it's the rewriting of history. it's the rewriting of history. it's the rewriting of nbebony— of history. it's the rewriting of nbebony bo— of history. it's the rewriting of history to suit people in bower— of history to suit people in power bn— of history to suit people in power bn one— of history to suit people in power in the present . of course, power in the present. of course, it's inconvenient— power in the present. of course, it's inconvenient to _ power in the present. of course, it's inconvenient to them . one it's inconvenient to them. one of it's inconvenient to them. one ob-bowenng— it's inconvenient to them. one of towering figures of of the towering figures of bnbben— of the towering figures of british history— of the towering figures of british history is a political conservative— british history is a political conservative and therefore , if conservative and therefore, if obey— conservative and therefore, if bney eon— conservative and therefore, if bney mne— conservative and therefore, if they can find any way to drill nobee— they can find any way to drill nobee bn— they can find any way to drill nobee bn nbe— they can find any way to drill holes in his plinth and bring nbm— holes in his plinth and bring nbm down— holes in his plinth and bring him down, then— holes in his plinth and bring him down, then then obviously obey— him down, then then obviously bney wbbb— him down, then then obviously bney wbbb oo— him down, then then obviously they will do so.— him down, then then obviously they will do so. anybody with any— they will do so. anybody with any sense knows— they will do so. anybody with any sense knows that churchill woe-o— any sense knows that churchill woe-o-ne— any sense knows that churchill woe-o-ne we- was not a saint. he was a benbbbe— was not a saint. he was a terrible chancellor of the booneonen — terrible chancellor of the exchequer. he— terrible chancellor of the exchequer. he was he behaved embboby— exchequer. he was he behaved embboby during— exchequer. he was he behaved stupidly during the abdication onebe— stupidly during the abdication ne— stupidly during the abdication crisis. he often— stupidly during the abdication crisis. he often made major bobbbbeob— crisis. he often made major political mistakes. but he did bnbng— political mistakes. but he did bnbne bob— political mistakes. but he did one thing for which the world mneb— one thing for which the world mneb remem— one thing for which the world must remain grateful to him forever, which— must remain grateful to him forever, which is— must remain grateful to him forever, which is he refused to neeobbobe— forever, which is he refused to negotiate with— forever, which is he refused to negotiate with the third reich, and negotiate with the third reich, ono ne— negotiate with the third reich, one be bebo— negotiate with the third reich, and he kept this— negotiate with the third reich, and he kept this country in the oeobneb— and he kept this country in the war against them— and he kept this country in the war against them when he could

nowe— war against them when he could nowe oebnobby— war against them when he could have actually made peace. and for have actually made peace. and bob-ne— have actually made peace. and for-he deserves— have actually made peace. and for he deserves plaudits. for that he deserves plaudits. so for that he deserves plaudits. so down— for that he deserves plaudits. so down no— for that he deserves plaudits. so down to the— for that he deserves plaudits. so down to the end of time. but mob— so down to the end of time. but mob ooeen-b— so down to the end of time. but that doesn't mean— so down to the end of time. but that doesn't mean we have to wobenbb— that doesn't mean we have to wonenbb mm.— that doesn't mean we have to wonenbb mm. b— that doesn't mean we have to worship him. i have no doubt at an,— worship him. i have no doubt at all, non— worship him. i have no doubt at all, for instance,— worship him. i have no doubt at all, for instance, that his his bewe— all, for instance, that his his views on on race— all, for instance, that his his views on on race were ones which many— views on on race were ones which many beobbe— views on on race were ones which many beobbe wowe— views on on race were ones which many people would have found oeeebbobbe— many people would have found oeeebbobbe ob— many people would have found acceptable at the— many people would have found acceptable at the time. of course, he was— acceptable at the time. of course, he was an imperialist. he course, he was an imperialist. be e— course, he was an imperialist. ne ne— course, he was an imperialist. ne ne wee— course, he was an imperialist. he was he was the head of the gowemmenb— he was he was the head of the government country which government of a country which nee—beb— government of a country which. had—but-things had an empire. but those things newe—beb— had an empire. but those things newe—bub me- have now gone. but the fundamental- have now gone. but the fundamental thing is that as bone— fundamental thing is that as bone ee— fundamental thing is that as long ee ee— fundamental thing is that as long as as long— fundamental thing is that as long as as long as he was neebeebee— long as as long as he was respected for— long as as long as he was respected for what he did, he was a major political figure who eonben-b— was a major political figure who eonbon-b be— was a major political figure who couldn't be challenged and who eewe— couldn't be challenged and who gave some lustre.— couldn't be challenged and who gave some lustre. and some enenebn— gave some lustre. and some enenebn bo— gave some lustre. and some enenebn bo e— gave some lustre. and some strength to a cause , which is strength to a cause, which is bebne— strength to a cause, which is now being pretty— strength to a cause, which is now being pretty much marginalised in this society. bneb— marginalised in this society. me be— marginalised in this society. me be no— marginalised in this society. that is, to the— marginalised in this society. that is, to the conservative ane— that is, to the conservative cause. and that's he is cause. and that's why he is ebbeebee. — cause. and that's why he is attacked. one— cause. and that's why he is attacked. one of- cause. and that's why he is attacked. oibi cause. and that's why he is attacked. , bib" attacked. one of my viewers on twitter you think twitter is saying, you think a lot this is all down to an lot of this is all down to an anti white racist narrative you're suggesting. why is it that people think that it's only white people that can be racist? what about racism that come towards these white figures? i'll leave you to ponder that

one. lots of you getting in touch again about youtube. very much enjoying the conversation that they've had tonight. again on you're in touch about the russian situation . jake says russian situation. jake says they don't always agree with peter, but he's correct on this russian in ukraine issue. we shouldn't keep funnelling billions taxpayers billions of pounds of taxpayers money to fund overseas wars, especially, he says the state that britain is in. again, some other people saying that you should go all the way when it comes to ukraine and reaching a conclusion. but i would always ask you, what does that mean? would as far as saying, i would you go as far as saying, i don't know, british forces don't know, get british forces on ground in ukraine to help on the ground in ukraine to help out? would be your line? out? would that be your line? and not, where would your and if not, where would your line tell me that line be? you can tell me that one again. not a lot of people agreeing this whole agreeing with this whole £169,000 cost for rwanda, perhaps because you're all saying to me, and i don't think i've found anyone that disagrees, none of you think it would actually ever happen. none of you think that it would ever get ground. you think get off the ground. you think this government lacks that kind of backbone? gordon says, please

, leave mr , michelle, can you leave mr churchill alone ? he's been dead churchill alone? he's been dead for years . well, it's not me. for years. well, it's not me. i'm just merely discussing what's going on at saint paul's cathedral. course, place cathedral. of course, the place where his state funeral where he had his state funeral all those years ago . and why are all those years ago. and why are people still so insist on criticising people that are actually , quite frankly, many of actually, quite frankly, many of you should be saying you you should be saying thank you to anyway , speaking of thank to anyway, speaking of thank yous, thank you two yous, i shall thank you two gentlemen company and gentlemen for your company and for debate as for the debate tonight. as i said, massively appreciate , said, massively appreciate, hated at home. but hated by everyone at home. but for now, that is all we've got time for. do not go anywhere. if you've missed this program tonight, you want to catch up, you can get it on the app. you can getit you can get it on the app. you can get it on youtube. now, of course, don't go anywhere because nigel is up next. because nigel farage is up next. and just talking about and we're just talking about this a second ago. if you want to go out and you're thinking, i want to watch news, don't want to watch gb news, i don't want to watch gb news, i don't want it, but i need to want to miss it, but i need to go out worry not because of course, we are on your radio. so wherever watch and listen, wherever you watch and listen, we much appreciate we very much appreciate your support . but britain's news support. but the britain's news channel, ever so much.

channel, thank you ever so much. have a good night. i will have a good night. and i will see tomorrow evening . alex see you tomorrow evening. alex deakin here with your- i 9 alex deakin here with your latest weebneb— deakin here with your latest weather update— deakin here with your latest weather update from the met ombee— weather update from the met ombee bob— weather update from the met office for gb— weather update from the met office for gb news. after a bbbenb— office for gb news. after a bnenb enen— office for gb news. after a bright start for— office for gb news. after a bright start for some, it will mm— bright start for some, it will mm bebny— bright start for some, it will turn fairly cloudy for most tomorrow. outbreaks at tomorrow. outbreaks of rain at bbmee— tomorrow. outbreaks of rain at bbmee eeboee— tomorrow. outbreaks of rain at times across the _ tomorrow. outbreaks of rain at times across the north. much of the times across the north. much of me eonbn— times across the north. much of the south will— times across the north. much of the south will stay— times across the north. much of the south will stay dry. thanks to the south will stay dry. thanks bo mbe— the south will stay dry. thanks bo bnbe eee— the south will stay dry. thanks to this area of— the south will stay dry. thanks to this area of pressure. to this area of high pressure. beb— to this area of high pressure. bub-bow— to this area of high pressure. but-low pressure- to this area of high pressure. but-low pressure is but this low pressure system is bobbbbne— but this low pressure system is bobbbbne-bne— but this low pressure system is toppling-the t0p- but this low pressure system is toppling the top and toppling in over the top and mm— toppling in over the top and wbbb bringe— toppling in over the top and will bring, as— toppling in over the top and will bring, as i— toppling in over the top and will bring, as i say, most much toppling in over the top and wi the 'ing, as i say, most much toppling in over the top and wi the norths i say, most much toppling in over the top and wi the north ai say, most much toppling in over the top and wi the north a dampnost much toppling in over the top and wi the north a damp day much of the north a damp day tomorrow. we've seen some heavy eonwee— tomorrow. we've seen some heavy eonwee ebonno— tomorrow. we've seen some heavy showers around during this enemoon— showers around during this ebbemoon .— showers around during this afternoon , but— showers around during this afternoon , but they're fading afternoon, but they're fading ewey—ewenbnel afternoon, but they're fading ewey—ewenbne .| afternoon, but they're fading- away_evening . most away through this evening. most bbeeee— away through this evening. most bbeeee-bny— away through this evening. most bbeeee-eny ene- away through this evening. most places dry and clear places becoming dry and clear ene— places becoming dry and clear ene wbbb— places becoming dry and clear ene wbbb eeey— places becoming dry and clear and will stay that— places becoming dry and clear and will stay that way for most of and will stay that way for most on me— and will stay that way for most on me mem— and will stay that way for most of the night. but— and will stay that way for most of the night. but here comes onen— of the night. but here comes that weather— of the night. but here comes that weather system increasing the that weather system increasing one—ween- that weather system increasing| the _west-then the cloud in the west and then bringing— the cloud in the west and then bringing ebn— the cloud in the west and then bringing rain to— the cloud in the west and then bringing rain to northern bebenb— bringing rain to northern ireland, southwest, scotland by newn— dawn, temperatures will stay bebween— dawn, temperatures will stay bebween n— dawn, temperatures will stay between 11.15 _ dawn, temperatures will stay between 11 15 degrees for between 11 and 15 degrees for moeb— between 11 and 15 degrees for moeb .— between 11 and 15 degrees for moeb . so— between 11 and 15 degrees for moeb . so e— between 11 and 15 degrees for most . so a warm— between 11 and 15 degrees for most. so a warm ish night, not as most. so a warm ish night, not ee numbe— most. so a warm ish night, not ee nnmbe ee— most. so a warm ish night, not as humid as it— most. so a warm ish night, not as humid as it was— most. so a warm ish night, not as humid as it was at the weekende— as humid as it was at the weekends, but— as humid as it was at the weekends, but a little warmer onen— weekends, but a little warmer mm b— weekends, but a little warmer mm b wee— weekends, but a little warmer than it was last— weekends, but a little warmer than it was last night. a damp enen— than it was last night. a damp eben onen— than it was last night. a damp start then for— than it was last night. a damp start then for northern ireland. bne—e- start then for northern ireland.| bne—e bbbbbe the rain may ease here a little bebeb— the rain may ease here a little bebeblbne— the rain may ease here a little bebeblbne eey— the rain may ease here a little later-the day, but- the rain may ease here a little later the day, but for much later in the day, but for much of later in the day, but for much on eonbnem — later in the day, but for much of southern and— later in the day, but for much of southern and western econome— of southern and western scotland, it's— of southern and western scotland, it's a damp day. we'll eee-bbmee— scotland, it's a damp day. we'll see-times-intol

see rain at times crossing into nonmem— see rain at times crossing into northern england— see rain at times crossing into northern england north and northern england and north and been— northern england and north and been wnee— northern england and north and been webee .— northern england and north and west wales , too.— northern england and north and west wales , too. and eventually west wales, too. and eventually eome-bebeny— west wales, too. and eventually some-patchy rain- west wales, too. and eventually some patchy rain may some of that patchy rain may mobbe— some of that patchy rain may mobbe bnbo— some of that patchy rain may trickle into the— some of that patchy rain may trickle into the midlands. but muon— trickle into the midlands. but moon on— trickle into the midlands. but much of southern england east anglia— much of southern england east anebbe wbbb— much of southern england east anglia will just— much of southern england east anglia will just stay dry. but wbbn— with increasing amounts of none,— with increasing amounts of oboeb—wbbb- with increasing amounts of cloud,_will pick| with increasing amounts of. cloud,_will pick up cloud, the breeze will pick up as arrives. nothing, as the rain arrives. nothing, eebeebebby— as the rain arrives. nothing, especially—somel especially heavy, but some neewbeb— especially heavy, but some heavier-likely. especially heavy, but some heavier likely on especially heavy, but some- heavier-likely on the heavier bursts are likely on the mbe.— heavier bursts are likely on the mbe—m- heavier bursts are likely on the mbe—bn-nbeni hills. temperatures in the high beene— hills. temperatures in the high beene-bne— hills. temperatures in the high teens-the-for- hills. temperatures in the high teens-the _for thei teens across the north for the eonbn— teens across the north for the eonbn-bow— teens across the north for the south .low 20s. - teens across the north for the south low 20s. but again, south and low 20s. but again, bb-bb— south and low 20s. but again, mm mm— south and low 20s. but again, it'll turn quite— south and low 20s. but again, it'll turn quite humid as we go monon— it'll turn quite humid as we go bnbonen one— it'll turn quite humid as we go bnnowen one-a— it'll turn quite humid as we go through the -a lot- it'll turn quite humid as we go through the a lot of cloud, through the day. a lot of cloud, a through the day. a lot of cloud, e-mbeb— through the day. a lot of cloud, e-mbeb-bnbo- through the day. a lot of cloud, a-mist-into these a lot of mist moving into these weeemb— a lot of mist moving into these western areas— a lot of mist moving into these western areas too,— a lot of mist moving into these western areas too, making for a mwby— western areas too, making for a mwby, numbe— western areas too, making for a murky, humid night tuesday night into wednesday— murky, humid night tuesday night into wednesday .— murky, humid night tuesday night into wednesday . the rain should into wednesday. the rain should eb— into wednesday. the rain should eb beeeb— into wednesday. the rain should ease, at least for— into wednesday. the rain should ease, at least for a— into wednesday. the rain should ease, at least for a time, eeboee-ob- ease, at least for a time, across of scotland , across parts of scotland, ebeybne — across parts of scotland, staying fairly _ across parts of scotland, staying fairly damp over the nbbbe— staying fairly damp over the me on— staying fairly damp over the hills of northern england and bonn— hills of northern england and bomb-beb— hills of northern england and north-but many- hills of northern england and north but many places north wales. but many places wbbb— north wales. but many places wbbb enen— north wales. but many places will start wednesday dry. but men— will start wednesday dry. but then another— will start wednesday dry. but then another area of rain comes in then another area of rain comes bn bnbbbebby— then another area of rain comes bn bnbbbebby bo— then another area of rain comes in initially to northern bebenb— in initially to northern ireland, but- in initially to northern ireland, but then spreading into bene— ireland, but then spreading into bene ob— ireland, but then spreading into parts of scotland. _ ireland, but then spreading into parts of scotland. northern bnebene— parts of scotland. northern england-wales.- parts of scotland. northern england wales. this england and wales. and this cowbe— england and wales. and this. could—bursts could have some heavy bursts mbxeo— could have some heavy bursts mixed-again— could have some heavy bursts mixed again possibility of a mixed in. again possibility of a mmbbe— mixed in. again possibility of a mmbbe ob— mixed in. again possibility of a rumble of thunder to the nonnweeb.— rumble of thunder to the northwest. it— rumble of thunder to the northwest. it should turn drier ene— northwest. it should turn drier ene mnneb— northwest. it should turn drier and further south— northwest. it should turn drier and further south and east most bbeeee—eny- places again, looking dry and mne— places again, looking dry and fine-wednesday,- places again, looking dry and fine wednesday, it will fine on wednesday, but it will be—eboney- fine on wednesday, but it will be—ebonby andl be predominantly cloudy and beebby—onee- be predominantly cloudy andi really—once more

be predominantly cloudy and. really—once more , really quite humid once more, goodbye— really quite humid once more, gooebye .—