hello. good evening. at 6 pm, i'm emily carver, and this is dewbs & co. you've got me this dewbs& co. you've got me this evening. jeeves is away. we've but we've got a cracking show to kick off your weekend. so the boldest set of changes to the health service in years. that's what the prime minister has promised today £24 billion to help plug staffing shortages. future proof the nhs a once in a generation moon move. the government says . but will this government says. but will this be enough to save a health service that seems to be in a permanent state of crisis .7 i permanent state of crisis? i want to know tonight what would you do to save the nhs? and is it even saveable? then boris johnson has chosen to write his weekly column for the daily mail on the rwanda policy. i'm glad he's not talking about a weight loss jab, to be honest, but he says it is our best hope, this policy to stop evil people traffickers. suella braverman

traffickers. we suella braverman lost in the court of appeal, didn't she? but she insists it's not over yet. but with only the supreme court left to go and yet another 100 or so migrants arriving on our shores this morning alone is it simply game over for the rwanda plan? should they give up and try a different tack? me know what you tack? let me know what you think. i don't about think. and i don't know about you, been deeply you, but i've been deeply disturbed by what is currently going on in france after a teenager shot dead by a teenager was shot dead by a police officer during a traffic stop. protests, looting , riots, stop. protests, looting, riots, violence. ak 47. is this france's george floyd moment? and do you like me? fear we could see similar unrest in this country and could your bank account be closed because of your political views? nigel farage has claimed that the establishment is trying to force him out of the uk by closing his bank accounts. other lenders have been accused of doing similar things to other customers who have controversial views . should it be illegal to views. should it be illegal to financially cancel someone based on their politics? sinister.

sinister stuff, in my view. and we often talk about racism and discrimination , don't we? but discrimination, don't we? but are white men actually on the receiving end ? the new head of receiving end? the new head of the raf has had to apologise guys for illegally discriminating against white men in their recruitment process. so that seems a pretty strong indicator that they are all in the name of diversity. apparently all of that to come tonight on dewbs& co with me, emily carver. but first, let's get latest news headlines . get the latest news headlines. good evening. it is 6:02. i'm karen— good evening. it is 6:02. i'm karen armstrong— good evening. it is 6:02. i'm karen armstrong in the newsroom. the government— karen armstrong in the newsroom. the government is— karen armstrong in the newsroom. the government is aiming to employ— the government is aiming to employ 300,000— the government is aiming to employ 300,000 new staff in england— employ 300,000 new staff in england as— employ 300,000 new staff in england as nan— employ 300,000 new staff in england as part of its nhs workforce— england as part of its nhs workforce plan— england as part of its nhs workforce plan . more doctors, workforce plan. more doctors, nurses and other— workforce plan. more doctors, nurses and other health care wonenn— nurses and other health care workers will— nurses and other health care workers will be _ nurses and other health care workers will be trained in addition— workers will be trained in addition to— workers will be trained in addition to creating more university— addition to creating more university places for medical and— university places for medical and nursing— university places for medical and nursing students . and there and nursing students. and there nin— and nursing students. and there will ano— and nursing students. and there nlll also be— and nursing students. and there will also be a— and nursing students. and there will also be a greater emphasis put will also be a greater emphasis pal an— will also be a greater emphasis put on apprenticeships. the 15 year— put on apprenticeships. the 15 year plan— put on apprenticeships. the 15 year plan an— put on apprenticeships. the 15 year plan aims to— put on apprenticeships. the 15 year plan aims to reduce nuance— year plan aims to reduce nellanae an— year plan aims to reduce reliance on international recruitment— reliance on international recruitment and agency staff.

ane— recruitment and agency staff. lne anna— recruitment and agency staff. the prime minister, rishi sunak, says— the prime minister, rishi sunak, says ll— the prime minister, rishi sunak, says ll focuses— the prime minister, rishi sunak, says it focuses on— the prime minister, rishi sunak, says it focuses on three key ol— says it focuses on three key areas of reform _ says it focuses on three key areas of reform . " \. areas of reform. this is the nhs own plan and the government is proud to back it. funding the expansion of education and training for the first five years in full with over £24 billion of additional investment . you can trust this government with the nhs , the plan rests on with the nhs, the plan rests on three principles skills trade and retain and reform. however, the shadow health— "lice " however, the shadow health secretary, wes slneellng— the shadow health secretary, wes slneellng ,— the shadow health secretary, wes sneellng , says— the shadow health secretary, wes streeting , says you— the shadow health secretary, wes streeting , says you can only streeting, says you can only nasa— streeting, says you can only trust labour— streeting, says you can only trust labour with the nhs after 13 trust labour with the nhs after as years— trust labour with the nhs after as years of— trust labour with the nhs after 13 years of catastrophic mismanagement of the nhs, which has mismanagement of the nhs, which nas nel— mismanagement of the nhs, which nas been one— mismanagement of the nhs, which has bred the worst— mismanagement of the nhs, which has bred the worst crisis in its nlslon— has bred the worst crisis in its nlslon . — has bred the worst crisis in its nlslon . l-nn— has bred the worst crisis in its history. i'm not— has bred the worst crisis in its history . : history. i'm not surprised the conservatives are looking to labour and taking our workforce plan and running with it. i'm sure the country will do that at the next general election too . the next general election too. labour's got a strong record on the nhs, the shortest waiting times, the highest patient satisfaction in history , and now satisfaction in history, and now we've got to build on this

workforce plan to go even further. lord dannatt goldsmith says— further. lord dannatt goldsmith says ne-s— further. lord dannatt goldsmith says he's happy— further. lord dannatt goldsmith says he's happy to_ lord dannatt goldsmith says he's happy to apologise for snanng— says he's happy to apologise for snanng nls— says he's happy to apologise for sharing his views— says he's happy to apologise for sharing his views on the commons lnveslleallon— sharing his views on the commons investigation into— sharing his views on the commons investigation into boris lonnson-s— investigation into boris johnson's partygate probe. the lon— johnson's partygate probe. the tory peer— johnson's partygate probe. the tory peer nas— johnson's partygate probe. the tory peer has hit— johnson's partygate probe. the tory peer has hit back after alsnl— tory peer has hit back after rishi sunak— tory peer has hit back after rishi sunak said he'd refused to apologlse— rishi sunak said he'd refused to apologlse. onse— rishi sunak said he'd refused to apologise. wise, saying his comments about the privileges connlllee— comments about the privileges committee were _ comments about the privileges committee were incompatible with his committee were incompatible with nls noslllon— committee were incompatible with nls noslllon as— committee were incompatible with his position as a— committee were incompatible with his position as a minister. well lone— his position as a minister. well lord goldsmith— his position as a minister. well lord goldsmith has now admitted he lord goldsmith has now admitted ne snoall— lord goldsmith has now admitted ne snoall noo— lord goldsmith has now admitted he should not have— lord goldsmith has now admitted he should not have commented panllely— he should not have commented panllely .— he should not have commented panllely . ln— he should not have commented panllely . ln nls— he should not have commented publicly . in his resignation publicly. in his resignation lellen— publicly. in his resignation lellen ne— publicly. in his resignation letter, he accused the government- letter, he accused the government of climate change analny— government of climate change apalny ,— government of climate change apalny , saving— government of climate change apathy , saving it_ government of climate change apathy , saying it made his role apathy, saying it made his role as mlnlslen— apathy, saying it made his role as minister for— apathy, saying it made his role as minister for international anvlnonnenl— as minister for international environment untenable . a cabinet environment untenable. a cabinet officer— environment untenable. a cabinet onleen .— environment untenable. a cabinet officer . sources— environment untenable. a cabinet officer . sources told environment untenable. a cabinet officer. sources told gb news aney— officer. sources told gb news lney nave— officer. sources told gb news lney nave no— officer. sources told gb news they have no idea why sue gray is they have no idea why sue gray ls nelng— they have no idea why sue gray is being cleared— they have no idea why sue gray is being cleared to— they have no idea why sue gray is being cleared to start. as sla— is being cleared to start. as sln ken— is being cleared to start. as sir keir starmer's, chief of slan— sir keir starmer's, chief of staff .— sir keir starmer's, chief of staff . ll-s— sir keir starmer's, chief of staff . it's understood a written staff. it's understood a written nlnlslenal— staff. it's understood a written ministerial statement will be panllsnel— ministerial statement will be panllsnel as— ministerial statement will be published as soon as monday, saylng— published as soon as monday, saylng ane— published as soon as monday, saying the partygate investigator broke civil service ales — investigator broke civil service ales ane— investigator broke civil service rules. the document was tabled noans— rules. the document was tabled noans before— rules. the document was tabled hours before the— rules. the document was tabled hours before the advisory connlllee— hours before the advisory committee on _ hours before the advisory committee on business appointments said she was cleaned— appointments said she was cleaned lo— appointments said she was cleared to take— appointments said she was cleared to take up her new role

alan— cleared to take up her new role nlln lanoan— cleared to take up her new role with labour in— cleared to take up her new role with labour in september over onllsn— with labour in september over british travellers _ with labour in september over british travellers to france are being— british travellers to france are being warned— british travellers to france are being warned to— british travellers to france are being warned to expect disruption,— being warned to expect disruption, including curfews , disruption, including curfews, as a nesall— disruption, including curfews, as a result of— disruption, including curfews, as a result of the— disruption, including curfews, as a result of the ongoing civil anaest— as a result of the ongoing civil annesw all— as a result of the ongoing civil unrest. all large— as a result of the ongoing civil unrest. all large scale events lo— unrest. all large scale events lo ne— unrest. all large scale events are to be cancelled and armoured wenleles— are to be cancelled and armoured wenleles ae— are to be cancelled and armoured vehicles are being— are to be cancelled and armoured vehicles are being deployed to sapnness— vehicles are being deployed to sapness ane— vehicles are being deployed to suppress the riots— vehicles are being deployed to suppress the riots which authorities _ suppress the riots which authorities expect to continue for a— authorities expect to continue for a foam— authorities expect to continue for a fourth night. protesters are demanding— for a fourth night. protesters are demanding justice for a 17 wean— are demanding justice for a 17 wean ole— are demanding justice for a 17 year old known— are demanding justice for a 17 year old known only as nahal m, wno— year old known only as nahal m, wno was— year old known only as nahal m, wno snoo— year old known only as nahal m, who was shot dead— year old known only as nahal m, who was shot dead by police in wanlene— who was shot dead by police in wanlene on— who was shot dead by police in nanterre on tuesday. an officer nas— nanterre on tuesday. an officer nas been— nanterre on tuesday. an officer has been charged— nanterre on tuesday. an officer has been charged with voluntary nonlelle. — has been charged with voluntary homicide. bus— has been charged with voluntary homicide. bus and— has been charged with voluntary homicide. bus and tram services are homicide. bus and tram services nelng— homicide. bus and tram services are being suspended. nations wlle— are being suspended. nations wlle non— are being suspended. nations wide from 9:00— are being suspended. nations wide from 9:00 pm local time . a wide from 9:00 pm local time. a soan— wide from 9:00 pm local time. a soan nas— wide from 9:00 pm local time. a soan nas been— wide from 9:00 pm local time. a court has been told— wide from 9:00 pm local time. a court has been told the oscar winning— court has been told the oscar winning aston— court has been told the oscar winning actor kevin spacey is a seaal— winning actor kevin spacey is a seal wally— winning actor kevin spacey is a sexual bully who— winning actor kevin spacey is a sexual bully who delights in making— sexual bully who delights in making others— sexual bully who delights in making others feel uncomfortable. on day one of making others feel— uncomfortable. on day one of his anal— uncomfortable. on day one of his anal al— uncomfortable. on day one of his trial at southwark_ uncomfortable. on day one of his trial at southwark crown court, noseeale— trial at southwark crown court, prosecute actors— trial at southwark crown court, prosecute actors described the hollywood— prosecute actors described the hollywood star— prosecute actors described the hollywood star as a man who sexaallw— hollywood star as a man who sexually assaults— hollywood star as a man who sexually assaults other men. the aston— sexually assaults other men. the aelon eases— sexually assaults other men. the aelon laees az— sexually assaults other men. the actor faces 12 charges of sex offense— actor faces 12 charges of sex offence against— actor faces 12 charges of sex offence against four men, which

allegedly— offence against four men, which allegedly loon— offence against four men, which allegedly took place between zool— allegedly took place between zoo and— allegedly took place between 2001 and 2013.— allegedly took place between 2001 and 2013. he denies all analges— 2001 and 2013. he denies all charges against— 2001 and 2013. he denies all charges against him . police have charges against him. police have laanened— charges against him. police have laanened a— charges against him. police have launched a double— charges against him. police have launched a double murder investigation— launched a double murder investigation after two people lllled— investigation after two people were killed in— investigation after two people were killed in north london. a teenager— were killed in north london. a teenager believed to be 15 and a 23 teenager believed to be 15 and a 2s year— teenager believed to be 15 and a 2s year old— teenager believed to be 15 and a 23 year old man— teenager believed to be 15 and a 23 year old man were found with slan— 23 year old man were found with saal onds— 23 year old man were found with stab wounds in— 23 year old man were found with stab wounds in islington last agno— stab wounds in islington last nlgnl. a— stab wounds in islington last nlgnl. a onlnd— stab wounds in islington last night. a third victim was also foand— night. a third victim was also loand wlln— night. a third victim was also found with stab— night. a third victim was also found with stab injuries. his eondlllon— found with stab injuries. his condition is— found with stab injuries. his condition is not— found with stab injuries. his condition is not thought to be ale— condition is not thought to be life threatening.— condition is not thought to be life threatening. no arrests, lnoagn— life threatening. no arrests, lnoagn nave— life threatening. no arrests, though, have been made. police nellewe— though, have been made. police nellewe a— though, have been made. police believe a large— though, have been made. police believe a large number of people onene— believe a large number of people were there when— believe a large number of people were there when the attack took place— were there when the attack took place and — were there when the attack took place and they're— were there when the attack took place and they're urging witnesses— place and they're urging witnesses forward place and they're urging. witnesses-forward . place and they're urging- witnesses-forward . the witnesses to come forward. the energy— witnesses to come forward. the energy negalalon— witnesses to come forward. the energy regulator says it's great people— energy regulator says it's great news. people will— energy regulator says it's great news. people will see their nllls— news. people will see their nllls drop— news. people will see their allls drop ny— news. people will see their bills drop by £460 a year from tomorrow . ofgem_ bills drop by £460 a year from tomorrow . ofgem says it's taken tomorrow. ofgem says it's taken a range— tomorrow. ofgem says it's taken a range of— tomorrow. ofgem says it's taken a range on sleds— tomorrow. ofgem says it's taken a range of steps to— tomorrow. ofgem says it's taken a range of steps to stabilise ane— a range of steps to stabilise one naked— a range of steps to stabilise the market and— a range of steps to stabilise the market and to protect customers . however, bills will customers. however, bills will a lol— customers. however, bills will remain a lot higher than they awo— remain a lot higher than they were two years— remain a lot higher than they were two years ago. £800 more enenswe— were two years ago. £800 more expensive. that's— were two years ago. £800 more expensive. that's almost double wnal— expensive. that's almost double wnal ane— expensive. that's almost double what the regulator— expensive. that's almost double what the regulator is urging. people— what the regulator is urging. people wno— what the regulator is urging. people who are— what the regulator is urging. people who are struggling to male— people who are struggling to make payments— people who are struggling to make payments to reach out to anew—

make payments to reach out to new sangllens— make payments to reach out to their suppliers as— make payments to reach out to their suppliers as soon as gosslnle— their suppliers as soon as gosslnle .— their suppliers as soon as possible . and— their suppliers as soon as possible . and millions more possible. and millions more nndsn— possible. and millions more british people— possible. and millions more british people will be able to dye— british people will be able to dye and— british people will be able to live and work— british people will be able to live and work in— british people will be able to live and work in australia when the live and work in australia when one age— live and work in australia when one age and— live and work in australia when the age limit for— live and work in australia when the age limit for working nollday— the age limit for working holiday visas— the age limit for working holiday visas is raised tomorrow . ane— holiday visas is raised tomorrow . the extension— holiday visas is raised tomorrow . the extension from 30 to 35 lo— . the extension from 30 to 35 means 16 million— . the extension from 30 to 35 means 16 million adults are now ellgllle— means 16 million adults are now ellglnle. ane— means 16 million adults are now eligible. the visa— means 16 million adults are now eligible. the visa duration will also— eligible. the visa duration will also be— eligible. the visa duration will also be extended— eligible. the visa duration will also be extended from 2 to 3 years— also be extended from 2 to 3 years without— also be extended from 2 to 3 years without the _ also be extended from 2 to 3 years without the need for consecutive _ years without the need for consecutive stays or farm work . consecutive stays or farm work. ane— consecutive stays or farm work. one free— consecutive stays or farm work. the free trade— consecutive stays or farm work. the free trade arrangement enables— the free trade arrangement enables similar— the free trade arrangement enables similar agreements for aaswallans— enables similar agreements for australians to— enables similar agreements for australians to work and travel in australians to work and travel ln one— australians to work and travel ln one dw— australians to work and travel ln one an .— australians to work and travel ln one an . av,— australians to work and travel in the uk . tv, online, dab and in the uk. tv, online, dab and laneln— in the uk. tv, online, dab and tunein radio.— in the uk. tv, online, dab and tunein radio. this— in the uk. tv, online, dab and tunein radio. this is gb news news.— tunein radio. this is gb news news. and— tunein radio. this is gb news news. and now— tunein radio. this is gb news news. and now it's back to . emily welcome to dewbs& co with me, emily i'm standing in emily carver. i'm standing in for evening. for michelle this evening. one night until night only, joining me until seven panel. daniel moylan, seven my panel. daniel moylan, a conservative peer in the house

of lords. and we also have david kirton, of the kirton, the leader of the heritage party. as always, we've got jam packed show this got a jam packed show this evening, please get evening, so please do get in touch us all of the touch with us about all of the topics be discussing this topics we'll be discussing this evening. vaiews@gbnews.com is our email address and on twitter we're at gb news. but you probably already know that. but if you are new, those are our details. so let's straight details. so let's get straight into tonight's show. the government has published its plan for a massive nhs shake up. they're calling it the most ambitious transformation of the nhs in its history. rishi sunak explained his 15 year plan. it's backed by £24 billion of investment . so let's take a investment. so let's take a listen. the plan rests on three principles train , retain and principles train, retain and reform. first, principles train, retain and reform . first, training will reform. first, training will doable— reform. first, training will doanle one— first, training will double the number of medical walnlng— double the number of medical training places— double the number of medical training places by 2031. focus on areas where— training places by 2031. focus on areas where there are too few doelons— on areas where there are too few doelons loday— on areas where there are too few doctors today will— on areas where there are too few doctors today will train over 24,000— doctors today will train over 24,000 none— doctors today will train over 24,000 more nurses and midwives ayean— 24,000 more nurses and midwives ayean and— 24,000 more nurses and midwives a year and increase— 24,000 more nurses and midwives a year and increase the number

of a year and increase the number on on— a year and increase the number on on lnalnlng— a year and increase the number of gp training places by 50% so nene— of gp training places by 50% so nene an— of gp training places by 50% so nene one— of gp training places by 50% so here are the main— of gp training places by 50% so here are the main points- of gp training places by 50% so here are the main points of the plan. we've got doubling medical school places to 15,000 a year increase the nhs workforce by 300,000 by 2036, 37. a consultation on cutting medical degrees to four years from five. doubung degrees to four years from five. doubling nurse and midwife training places to 24,000 per year and 1 in 5 clinical staff to be trained through apprenticeships, as well as plans . they are backed by £24 plans. they are backed by £24 billion over the next five years. part of the plan this is a little bit of a controversial part of the plan is to slash the medical degrees from five years to four. that's in a drive to put tens of thousands of extra doctors on hospital wards. david, come you first. david, i'll come to you first. what you make of that what do you make of that particular thing making cutting training from five years to four years? do you worry that that could mean we have inexpensive perienced doctors, doctors without enough qualifications?

yeah i mean, it sounds good the whole plan, but this is a little bit of a thorn in the side of the plan because you can't do it on the cheap. you know, you need to on the cheap. you know, you need do waln— on the cheap. you know, you need to train doctors— on the cheap. you know, you need to train doctors properly. - cl" f you know, you need to train doctors properly. they need— to train doctors properly. they need a— to train doctors properly. they need a new— to train doctors properly. they need a hell of— to train doctors properly. they need a hell of a— to train doctors properly. they need a hell of a lot of lnalnlng— need a hell of a lot of training. they- need a hell of a lot of training. they need three years aeadenle— training. they need three years academic training. i mean, it ased— academic training. i mean, it asedlne— academic training. i mean, it used-be three— academic training. i mean, it used be three years clinical used to be three years clinical lnalnlng. — used to be three years clinical training. -then_ used to be three years clinical training. then before they training. and then before they come, _ doctors.| training. and then before they. come, _doctors. so come, become junior doctors. so to, come, become junior doctors. so go,-gggg_ come, become junior doctors. so go,-gggg.gown- come, become junior doctors. so to,-that.down to- to, to bring that all down to loan— to, to bring that all down to loan-l— to, to bring that all down to four-i think- to, to bring that all down to four i think really is four years, i think really is along— four years, i think really is cutting corners.— four years, i think really is cutting corners. so i would get rid cutting corners. so i would get nld on— cutting corners. so i would get nld of anal— cutting corners. so i would get rid of that bit— cutting corners. so i would get rid of that bit of— cutting corners. so i would get rid of that bit of the plan. and you— rid of that bit of the plan. and yoa know,— rid of that bit of the plan. and yoa know, we— rid of that bit of the plan. and you know, the thing with this is lney— you know, the thing with this is lney say— you know, the thing with this is lney say lney— you know, the thing with this is they say they got— you know, the thing with this is they say they got £24 billion for they say they got £24 billion don lnls. — they say they got £24 billion for this. iassume_ they say they got £24 billion for this. assume that's over for this. i assume that's over we— for this. i assume that's over we wnole— for this. i assume that's over we wnole ls— for this. i assume that's over the whole 15 year— for this. i assume that's over the whole 15 year transformation plan,— the whole 15 year transformation plan wnlen— the whole 15 year transformation plan, which really— the whole 15 year transformation plan, which really is nowhere near near enough to train an exwa— near near enough to train an extra 60,000— near near enough to train an extra 60,000 doctors that they want— extra 60,000 doctors that they wanl ln— extra 60,000 doctors that they want in 170,000 _ extra 60,000 doctors that they want in 170,000 nurses over the one — want in 170,000 nurses over the one so— want in 170,000 nurses over the one so n— want in 170,000 nurses over the time. so if this— want in 170,000 nurses over the time. so if this is— want in 170,000 nurses over the time. so if this is going to be sonelnlng— time. so if this is going to be sonelnlng ln— time. so if this is going to be something in to— time. so if this is going to be something in to order do this on the something in to order do this on we snean— something in to order do this on we enean lnen— something in to order do this on the cheap, then that's really searnens— the cheap, then that's really searnens ane— the cheap, then that's really scuppers the whole plan in a way. — scuppers the whole plan in a way. dandel— scuppers the whole plan in a way. daniel, is— scuppers the whole plan in a way. daniel, is this- scuppers the whole plan in a way. "jr?" lg e scuppers the whole plan in a way. lia“ lg e a“ way. daniel, is this doing it on the cheap or is this just pragmatism? i don't know. first

of all, i think it's very good to of all, i think it's very good do nave— of all, i think it's very good do nave a— of all, i think it's very good to have a plan— of all, i think it's very good to have a plan because it's nds-e— to have a plan because it's well— to have a plan because it's nice. well, it's— to have a plan because it's nice. well, it's more than just l— nice. well, it's more than just l nnean— nice. well, it's more than just nice. i mean, we— nice. well, it's more than just nice. i mean, we recruit huge nnnenns— nice. i mean, we recruit huge nnnenns ol— nice. i mean, we recruit huge numbers of people from overseas to numbers of people from overseas do one— numbers of people from overseas lo and— numbers of people from overseas to come and work— numbers of people from overseas to come and work in— numbers of people from overseas to come and work in the nhs when we soald— to come and work in the nhs when we soald ne— to come and work in the nhs when we could be training— to come and work in the nhs when we could be training people here in we could be training people here ln lnls— we could be training people here ln lnls soanlny— we could be training people here in this country to— we could be training people here in this country to do many of nose— in this country to do many of nose rods.— in this country to do many of those jobs. but— in this country to do many of those jobs. but you can't train people— those jobs. but you can't train people overnight— those jobs. but you can't train people overnight . you've got to people overnight. you've got to nave— people overnight. you've got to nave a— people overnight. you've got to nave a plan. — people overnight. you've got to have a plan. you've got to have we— have a plan. you've got to have we lnalnlng— have a plan. you've got to have the training places— have a plan. you've got to have the training places for them. voa-we— the training places for them. voa-we-anle- the training places for them. you've - able to - the training places for them.- you've-able to recruit you've got to be able to recruit lnen — you've got to be able to recruit lnen -so— you've got to be able to recruit lnen-so on— you've got to be able to recruit them-so on. if— you've got to be able to recruit them-so on. if i- you've got to be able to recruit them so on. if i had any them and so on. if i had any enllldsn— them and so on. if i had any criticism of— them and so on. if i had any criticism of the— them and so on. if i had any criticism of the plan, it would be lnal— criticism of the plan, it would be lnal dds— criticism of the plan, it would be that it's a— criticism of the plan, it would be that it's a bit— criticism of the plan, it would be that it's a bit too slow in nalldlng— be that it's a bit too slow in nalldlng an— be that it's a bit too slow in building up the— be that it's a bit too slow in building up the training places lnal— building up the training places wad—lo— building up the training places lnal—lo ne- building up the training places that to be offering, that we're going to be offering, lannlng— that we're going to be offering, turning-david's— that we're going to be offering, turning david's point , it's turning to david's point, it's anae— turning to david's point, it's true-mustn't- turning to david's point, it's true-mustn't you. turning to david's point, it's- true-mustn't you won't true that you mustn't you won't be able— true that you mustn't you won't be able lo— true that you mustn't you won't be able do do— true that you mustn't you won't be able to do this— true that you mustn't you won't be able to do this on the cheap. people— be able to do this on the cheap. people-gong— be able to do this on the cheap. people-gong lo— be able to do this on the cheap. people going to have pay people are going to have to pay lnnoagn— people are going to have to pay more through taxes in more through their taxes in onden— more through their taxes in ondenlnawe— more through their taxes in order. have this. - more through their taxes in order have this. that's order to have this. that's alsolalely— order to have this. that's absolutely true. there might be some-because- absolutely true. there might bei some-because-could some savings because you could be negladng— some savings because you could be replacing quite— some savings because you could be replacing quite a lot of agency— be replacing quite a lot of agency slan— be replacing quite a lot of agency staff that you have at ane— agency staff that you have at we nnonnenl— agency staff that you have at we nnonnenl .— agency staff that you have at the moment. i— agency staff that you have at the moment. i think the heavy part— the moment. i think the heavy pan of— the moment. i think the heavy pan of ne— the moment. i think the heavy pan on we plan— the moment. i think the heavy part of the plan, those agency slan— part of the plan, those agency staff _expensive - part of the plan, those agency staff _expensive to l staff are quite expensive to employ— staff are quite expensive to employ on— staff are quite expensive to employ or they're not employed, but employ or they're not employed, on lo— employ or they're not employed, on do ase— employ or they're not employed, on do n— employ or they're not employed, but to use if you— employ or they're not employed, but to use if you can replace a lot of— but to use if you can replace a lot of ne— but to use if you can replace a lot of the agency— but to use if you can replace a lot of the agency staff with pennanenl— lot of the agency staff with permanent employed people, you

probably— permanent employed people, you nonanly ln— permanent employed people, you nonanly n a— permanent employed people, you probably in a better place nlnandally— probably in a better place financially ._ probably in a better place financially . so- probably in a better place financially . so there will be financially. so there will be some savings— financially. so there will be some savings ,_ financially. so there will be some savings , i'd hope in that some savings, i'd hope in that dlneellon— some savings, i'd hope in that dlneellon .— some savings, i'd hope in that direction . yes. _ some savings, i'd hope in that direction . yes. the- some savings, i'd hope in that direction . yes. 37” direction. yes. the prime minister has said that that could well, there could be billions in savings by not using agency staff well, but all billions is nothing in this. but of course we've had to use agency— but of course we've had to use ageney slan— but of course we've had to use agency staff because of all the sadne— agency staff because of all the strike action. _ agency staff because of all the strike action. ea sizi; strike action. billions here, billions there, you know, i mean, know. you could mean, you know. yeah you could save could be a save billions. that could be a lot. could be a little depending on the context. but could on the context. but you could certainly money doing certainly save money from doing that. that's very that. so i think that's very encouraging well . there is encouraging as well. i there is a point david has a point. i think the truth is at the moment , the medical places for studying medicine to be a doctor are very hard to get. and so they tend to be some of the brightest people are the ones who actually get into those slots. of course, if you open it up larger cadre of up to a much larger cadre of people , well then you'll be people, well then you'll be going further down the scale. if you shorten the training, then then not be getting then you might not be getting what absolutely need. but what you absolutely need. but then question really is, then the question really is, with modern ai and all of that,

do you need all of your doctors to be as qualified ? now you say to be as qualified? now you say that probably shock you, but if you think what the average gp is doing , when really what much of doing, when really what much of the time they're identifying symptoms , which they're now symptoms, which they're now assisted in by by technology and by computers and by references, and then they're referred people with those systems to specialists in hospitals consult agents and people who actually have expertise in what they think might be the cause of that . you know, it isn't necessary for every gp to be absolutely the best knees that everything now the government, the government says that this is sorry, david, the government says that this is the biggest reform since the nhs was started. ibelieve reform since the nhs was started. i believe . but is this started. i believe. but is this aelaally— started. i believe. but is this aelaally a— started. i believe. but is this actually a reform— : i believe. but is this actually a reform aim? this is last— actually a reform aim? this is as snow— actually a reform aim? this is just simply throwing more money into just simply throwing more money no a— just simply throwing more money into a recruitment,— just simply throwing more money into a recruitment, which is a fanlasde— into a recruitment, which is a fantastic thing— into a recruitment, which is a fantastic thing ._ into a recruitment, which is a fantastic thing . we need more fantastic thing. we need more doelons— fantastic thing. we need more doelons we— fantastic thing. we need more doctors, we need— fantastic thing. we need more doctors, we need more nurses . is doctors, we need more nurses. is dal— doctors, we need more nurses. is bad ls— doctors, we need more nurses. is bad ls lnls— doctors, we need more nurses. is but is this almost— doctors, we need more nurses. is but is this almost a— doctors, we need more nurses. is but is this almost a sticking nlaslen— but is this almost a sticking glaslen non— but is this almost a sticking glaslen on a—

but is this almost a sticking plaster for a system that is falllng— plaster for a system that is failing beyond— plaster for a system that is failing beyond just staff snonages— failing beyond just staff snonages 7— failing beyond just staff shortages ? yeah, right. g shortages? yeah, right. it's anowlng— shortages? yeah, right. it's throwing money— shortages? yeah, right. it's throwing money at- shortages? yeah, right. it's throwing money at a problem which is very clearly there that we are relying on migrants to come in who are qualified , who come in who are qualified, who are goods apparently. sorry just to just on that point, apparently nearly a quarter of our workforce in the nhs is currently recruited from overseas. they want in 15 years ane— overseas. they want in 15 years dne lon— overseas. they want in 15 years dne don anal— overseas. they want in 15 years time for that to— overseas. they want in 15 years time for that to be— overseas. they want in 15 years time for that to be at- they want in 15 years time for that to be at around len— time for that to be at around len. wean. — time for that to be at around ten. yeah. and— time for that to be at around ten. yeah. and that- time for that to be at around ten. yeah. a: time for that to be at around ten. yeah. 'l: g: ten. yeah. and that is a good aim. i think they've been reading our manifesto actually, because that is one of the points that labour says they've been reading this. yeah, indeed . but i mean absolutely. and that how this was presented that was how this was presented and that was headline a and that was the headline in a lot today. and lot of the reports today. and that's abominable thing. we that's an abominable thing. we should training enough should be training enough british people to the british people to do all the jobs that need to be in jobs that need to be done in this country, that includes this country, and that includes doctors, , gp's doctors, nurses, midwives, gp's and other special doctors. we shouldn't be taking paying doctors and nurses and midwives from other countries who have trained them and they've invested in their young people where we haven't and that's been

going on for 25, 30 years. so this is a problem that needs to be rectified . and i don't think be rectified. and i don't think it's the biggest reform in the nhs history since 1948. but it is a good ambition to do this. it's an ambition that i would have. but in terms of reform form, he hasn't really said much about that at all. i mean, it is grossly inefficient . you have grossly inefficient. you have these pies from the labour days where you have contracts. for example, if you want to change a light bulb, you have to call a certain contract doctor and they'll charge you £80 to change a light bulb. but isn't that last— a light bulb. but isn't that last we— a light bulb. but isn't that just the public— a a; but isn't that just the public sector or is it in just the public sector or is it n ganlealan— just the public sector or is it in particular, particularly bad in particular, particularly bad ln lne— in particular, particularly bad ln we was?— in particular, particularly bad ln lne wwse — in particular, particularly bad in the nhs? ia f in the nhs? daniel because last time i looked the nhs employs 1.6 million people, making it one of the biggest employers in europe, if not the biggest employer . why is it impossible employer. why is it impossible with an organisation like that to run it efficiently ? under to run it efficiently? under these plans there'll- a f“ under these plans there'll be 2 nllllon— these plans there'll be 2 million employed at the end of

the million employed at the end of we do— million employed at the end of we do yean— million employed at the end of the 15 year period,— million employed at the end of the 15 year period, so 1.6 will be a— the 15 year period, so 1.6 will be a pleasant— the 15 year period, so 1.6 will be a pleasant memory. that's weny— be a pleasant memory. that's very interesting actually. how much power nhs staff will have over the government. if you see it that way in terms of strike action, in terms of bargaining power, 2 million people being employed by one publicly owned organisation. quite incredible . organisation. quite incredible. and the other thing i wanted to say was— and the other thing i wanted to say lnls— and the other thing i wanted to say was this 25— and the other thing i wanted to say was this 2.5 billion is going— say was this 2.5 billion is goinglldo— say was this 2.5 billion is going-90 into- say was this 2.5 billion is going go into wages. it's going to go into wages. it's going— going to go into wages. it's golng-lnlo— going to go into wages. it's going-into staff,- going to go into wages. it's going into staff, go into going to go into staff, go into slan— going to go into staff, go into staff pockets.— going to go into staff, go into staff pockets. none of it is going— staff pockets. none of it is golng lnlo— staff pockets. none of it is going into producing better nealln— going into producing better health outcomes, which is, after all, health outcomes, which is, after all n— health outcomes, which is, after all n yoa— health outcomes, which is, after all, n yoa lean— health outcomes, which is, after all, if you bear it— health outcomes, which is, after all, if you bear it in mind, is war— all, if you bear it in mind, is wnal ane— all, if you bear it in mind, is what the nhs— all, if you bear it in mind, is what the nhs is— all, if you bear it in mind, is what the nhs is about. a better nealln— what the nhs is about. a better health outcome— what the nhs is about. a better health outcome ,_ what the nhs is about. a better health outcome , for example, is health outcome, for example, is a longen— health outcome, for example, is a longer cancer— health outcome, for example, is a longer cancer survival rate. lnads— a longer cancer survival rate. lnads a— a longer cancer survival rate. that's a better— a longer cancer survival rate. that's a better health outcome . that's a better health outcome. wow— that's a better health outcome. now we— that's a better health outcome. now we pangose— that's a better health outcome. now the purpose of the nhs is not now the purpose of the nhs is no snow— now the purpose of the nhs is nol slngly lo— now the purpose of the nhs is not simply to employ people, it's not simply to employ people, as lo— not simply to employ people, it's to produce— not simply to employ people, it's to produce better health outcomes and— it's to produce better health outcomes and the 2.5 billion lsn-l— outcomes and the 2.5 billion lsn-l golng— outcomes and the 2.5 billion isn't going into— outcomes and the 2.5 billion isn't going into the equipment. gr..— isn't going into the equipment. lne leennology,— isn't going into the equipment. the technology, the stuff like anal— the technology, the stuff like lnal lnal— the technology, the stuff like that that could— the technology, the stuff like that that could be producing lnose— that that could be producing those better— that that could be producing those better health outcomes anal— those better health outcomes lnal n— those better health outcomes lnal n dds— those better health outcomes that if it's going— those better health outcomes that if it's going to happen at arr.— that if it's going to happen at all wlll— that if it's going to happen at all, will have— that if it's going to happen at all, will have to— that if it's going to happen at all, will have to come from somewhere else. - all, will have to come from somewhere else. as we know, somewhere else. and as we know, the somewhere else. and as we know, we goeennls—

somewhere else. and as we know, the government's credit card is maxed— the government's credit card is maxed-moment- the government's credit card is maxed moment now. the government's credit card is- maxed-moment now. and maxed out at the moment now. and for maxed out at the moment now. and on we— maxed out at the moment now. and for the foreseeable— maxed out at the moment now. and for the foreseeable future. well.— for the foreseeable future. well. l— for the foreseeable future. well, i mean,— for the foreseeable future. well, i mean, i— for the foreseeable future. well, i mean, i would- for the foreseeable future. well, i mean, i would agree with you there, because this government so grossly government has been so grossly financially irresponsible over 13 years that they make tony blair look good. and instead of actually , i'm not sure i'd go actually, i'm not sure i'd go that far on spending money on something that is good. and they've on net they've wasted money on net zero. wasted money on zero. they've wasted money on furlough lockdowns furlough and lockdowns which were , and now were unnecessary, and now they're money on the they're wasting money on the ukraine war, which shouldn't ukraine war, which we shouldn't be they're wasting be involved in. they're wasting money hs2 on diverting city money on hs2 on diverting city offices, on migrant hotels , offices, on migrant hotels, halls, on the range , on the halls, on the range, on the point you could spend on the point you could spend on the point of tory failure. daniel neil's just written- point of tory failure. daniel neil's just written in.- daniel neil's just written in. he says , nenennen— neil's just written in. he says , remember the— neil's just written in. he says , remember the tories cut nedleal— , remember the tories cut medical school— , remember the tories cut medical school places and eed— medical school places and removed nurses- medical school places and removed nurses bursary . as removed nurses bursary. as caen— removed nurses bursary. as caen and— removed nurses bursary. as cameron and osborne decided it sneanen— cameron and osborne decided it eneanenrasl— cameron and osborne decided it was cheaper just to recruit from anoad. — was cheaper just to recruit from anoad. lnads— was cheaper just to recruit from abroad. that's a— was cheaper just to recruit from abroad. that's a fair point , abroad. that's a fair point, lsn-l— abroad. that's a fair point, en de— abroad. that's a fair point, lsn-l no do— abroad. that's a fair point, isn't it? do we— abroad. that's a fair point, isn't it? do we reap what we sow 7 isn't it? do we reap what we sow a wave— isn't it? do we reap what we sow a wave nave— isn't it? do we reap what we sow ? have have these— isn't it? do we reap what we sow ? have have these problems been , ? have have these problems been gar,— ? have have these problems been , well, political— ? have have these problems been , well, political decisions? well.— , well, political decisions? well. l— , well, political decisions? well. l wand— , well, political decisions? well, i want there- , well, political decisions? well, i want there are- , well, political decisions? well, i want there are political decisions. have been made. but i just decisions. have been made. but i last wand— decisions. have been made. but i last wanl lo— decisions. have been made. but i as wanl lo gal—

decisions. have been made. but i just want to put it— decisions. have been made. but i just want to put it back- n:lint have been made. but i just want to put it back to oand.— just want to put it back to oawd. loa— just want to put it back to david. you know, i mean, the new— david. you know, i mean, the new lnlng— david. you know, i mean, the new lnlng ln— david. you know, i mean, the next thing in two— david. you know, i mean, the next thing in two minutes time, yoa-ll— next thing in two minutes time, yoa-ll tann— next thing in two minutes time, you'll turn around— next thing in two minutes time, you'll turn around and david wlll— you'll turn around and david wlll ne— you'll turn around and david will be explaining about the lones— will be explaining about the tones glwng— will be explaining about the tories giving us— will be explaining about the tories giving us austerity. lnads— tories giving us austerity. that's-other- tories giving us austerity. that's other complaint. you tories giving us austerity. tha austerity. r complaint. you tories giving us austerity. tha austerity. �*iflili mplaint. you tories giving us austerity. tha austerity. �*iflili mplaii “an: ou get austerity. we never had austerity high austerity expenditure, high expenditure. other moment expenditure. the other moment nolllleal— expenditure. the other moment political decisions— : ii the other moment political decisions made in political decisions are made in the political decisions are made in lne—ln— political decisions are made in lne—ln wnlen- political decisions are made in| the—in which they the circumstance in which they anse— the circumstance in which they and— the circumstance in which they and dds— the circumstance in which they arise and it's true— the circumstance in which they arise and it's true that we did sal— arise and it's true that we did eal naen— arise and it's true that we did sat back on— arise and it's true that we did cut back on money spent in nanne— cut back on money spent in public service— cut back on money spent in public service without any noticeable— public service without any noticeable falling off in outcomes, which is what really nanens. — outcomes, which is what really nanens. rast— outcomes, which is what really matters. just very— outcomes, which is what really matters. n: ntltn outcomes, which is what really matters. n: tel/man matters. just very quickly, david obe , it's all well and david obe, it's all well and good planning for the future and all these new nurses and doctors, you're going to hire and train in this country. but what about right now?- what about right now? we have a war,— what about right now? we have a well were— what about right now? we have a well, we're finding— what about right now? we have a well, we're finding it difficult to well, we're finding it difficult lo nelaln— well, we're finding it difficult to retain staff— well, we're finding it difficult to retain staff if— well, we're finding it difficult to retain staff if people are nowng— to retain staff if people are moving elsewhere or retiring eanly— moving elsewhere or retiring eanly neaase— moving elsewhere or retiring early because of— moving elsewhere or retiring early because of pay and conditions— early because of pay and conditions ._ early because of pay and conditions . batus is what they conditions. batus is what they say. — conditions. batus is what they say. do — conditions. batus is what they say. do we — conditions. batus is what they say. no we need— conditions. batus is what they say. do we need to bite the ballet— say. do we need to bite the ballet and— say. do we need to bite the bullet and up— say. do we need to bite the bullet and up their pay? i think pay bullet and up their pay? i think gay needs— bullet and up their pay? i think gay needs lo— bullet and up their pay? i think pay needs to keep— bullet and up their pay? i think pay needs to keep pace with lnllallon— pay needs to keep pace with inflation, you _ pay needs to keep pace with inflation, you know, but what gol— inflation, you know, but what gol ls— inflation, you know, but what we've got is two— inflation, you know, but what we've got is two extremes at the moment— we've got is two extremes at the moment we— we've got is two extremes at the moment the bma_ we've got is two extremes at the moment the bma are asking for so. —

moment the bma are asking for so. we— moment the bma are asking for 35. the government's- moment the bma are asking for 35. t n: 35. the government's offering a 5. they need to reach a happy medium because inflation is 10. so in order for people to have the same purchasing power, they need a 10% pay rise. i think that would be a solution to the problem . and daniel, just one problem. and daniel, just one rag— problem. and daniel, just one lasl gaesllon— problem. and daniel, just one last question. is— problem. and daniel, just one last question. is the- and daniel, just one last question. is the nhs worth sawng— last question. is the nhs worth sawng e — last question. is the nhs worth sawng e war.— last question. is the nhs worth saving ? well, we— last question. is the nhs worth saving? �*iflinitt : last question. is the nhs worth saving ? �*iflinitt : last question. is the nhs worth saving ? saving? well, we need a public health system and the nhs is the one we've got weather today . you one we've got weather today. you would actually decide to nationalise and have a single organisation providing your health public, providing your publicly funded health. no other country has done that. i know with the left they're convinced this is the best model in the world, but nobody else has copied it and whether you get the best outcomes from that, whether you get the right amount of patient choice, almost zero, whether you get the right amount of waiting , proper of patient waiting, proper treatment of patients. so they're actually treated like adults. people who can make appointments, which you can turn up for. and actually you have the appointment at the time that

it agreed. i mean, or you it was agreed. i mean, or you come happens now in most come or what happens now in most hospitals you in a four hospitals as you come in a four hour you know, you queue hour slot, you know, you queue up in four hour slot and up in your four hour slot and accident emergency . is that, accident and emergency. is that, you know, is this the best system we could devise if we were starting today? almost certainly no. we'd look certainly we'd say no. we'd look for best practise elsewhere in the western world and we wouldn't come up with this. well but yes, i don't think there's any appetite . there's no any appetite. there's no anneale— any appetite. there's no aggellle lon— any appetite. there's no appetite for root- a�*yn there's no appetite for root and branch neonnnl— appetite for root and branch neonnnl lnls— appetite for root and branch reform. this is— appetite for root and branch reform. this is what we've got. i'd reform. this is what we've got. l-d angae— reform. this is what we've got. l-d angae lnal— reform. this is what we've got. i'd argue that we— reform. this is what we've got. i'd argue that we should probably— i'd argue that we should totally ne— i'd argue that we should probably be thinking a little bit probably be thinking a little on nggen— probably be thinking a little on nggen al— probably be thinking a little bit bigger at the moment. it's all son— bit bigger at the moment. it's all son on— bit bigger at the moment. it's all sort of sticking plasters, dal— all sort of sticking plasters, bad we— all sort of sticking plasters, bad we nasa— all sort of sticking plasters, but we must welcome more doctors and-nnn— but we must welcome more doctors and-think, because- and nurses, i think, because lney— and nurses, i think, because lney keep— and nurses, i think, because lney keep as— and nurses, i think, because they keep us alive. anyway, eonlng— they keep us alive. anyway, eonlng ag— they keep us alive. anyway, eonlng ap ,— they keep us alive. anyway, coming up, suella braverman said she coming up, suella braverman said sne woald— coming up, suella braverman said she would-whatever— coming up, suella braverman said she would whatever it takes she would do whatever it takes to she would do whatever it takes lo-noals — she would do whatever it takes lo-noals dal- she would do whatever it takes to - boats, but not - she would do whatever it takes to boats, but not with to stop the boats, but not with the to stop the boats, but not with we nos — to stop the boats, but not with the courts. the— to stop the boats, but not with the courts. the setback in the nos— the courts. the setback in the nos ls— the courts. the setback in the nos ls dw— the courts. the setback in the courts, is it? game over for her rwanda— courts, is it? game over for her rwanda scheme?— courts, is it? game over for her rwanda scheme? is— courts, is it? game over for her rwanda scheme? is it game over for

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listening to gb news radio. welcome— listening to gb news radio. welcome back. _ listening to gb news radio. welcome back. this- listening to gb news radio. welcome back. this is- listening to gb news radio. welcome back. this is dewbs& co. with me, emily carver. i'm standing in for michel tonight, but keeping me company until seven is daniel moylan , seven is daniel moylan, conservative peer in the house of lords . thank you, daniel. and of lords. thank you, daniel. and david the leader of the david kurten, the leader of the heritage . so you've been heritage party. so you've been getting in touch about the nhs, this big nhs workforce plan. do you give it a thumbs up, thumbs down? what do you think is the nhs saveable it seems to always be in some kind of state of crisis. obviously made worse by the pandemic phase being in touch, she says. on the topic of nhs recruitment , australia wants nhs recruitment, australia wants brits , they want our doctors brits, they want our doctors etcetera . what will happen now etcetera. what will happen now is we taxpayers will pay and train up doctors and nurses for them to go and work in oz. they must be bonded or something to work for the nhs for at least five years. a lot of people think that. they think if you've been trained in this country through our university system, taxpayer partially taxpayer payer is partially funded. education an funded. your education an you should to commit to the nhs should have to commit to the nhs

for a couple of years for at least a couple of years or so. think most people would or so. i think most people would agree that. is that agree with that. but is that against liberties to against their civil liberties to be travel? and if be able to travel? and if australia and other countries are offering something are offering them something better, better better, offering them better pay, better, offering them better pay, hours to work every pay, fewer hours to work every day? well perhaps it's their right to go. so wait on, haven't they paid fees for this education? well, they have, but lney— education? well, they have, but lney nonnowed— it 7 well, they have, but they borrowed subsidies as well, nawen-l— they borrowed subsidies as well, nawen-l lneye — they borrowed subsidies as well, haven't they? : gli haven't they? borrowed huge amounts of money to pay this amounts of money to pay for this education? it's like they've education? it's not like they've been it free. well, been given it free. well, i mean, just have remember , in mean, just have to remember, in my you got free. in my day, my day, you got free. in my day, you might be able to say, yeah, you've got an education free and you've got an education free and you owe the country something back. the argument for back. i can see the argument for that. if you've actually that. but if you've actually loaded up a huge amount of debt, paid own in order to paid your own fees in order to get your education, i think it'd be an impertinence . i don't be an impertinence. i don't think i don't— be an impertinence. i don't think i don't think- be an impertinence. i don't think i don't think the- a“ t i don't think i don't think the £9,000 a yean— think i don't think the £9,000 a yean aelaally— think i don't think the £9,000 a year actually covers the entire cost— year actually covers the entire cost on— year actually covers the entire cost of training— year actually covers the entire cost of training to— year actually covers the entire cost of training to be a medical doelon. — cost of training to be a medical doctor. lwould_ cost of training to be a medical doctor. : n:li " glityn �*" doctor. it would definitely, if you did an arts degree or an engush you did an arts degree or an english degree or something like that, where you have about two hours lessons a week, maybe

hours of lessons a week, maybe not five maybe, maybe not five years, maybe, maybe six months. your months. but i do take your point. we can't really, you know, strap people down and force them to work in the nhs. david well, i what you can david well, i think what you can dolsay— david well, i think what you can dolsay lnal— david well, i think what you can dolsay lnal we— david well, i think what you can dolsay that we-pay- david well, i think what you can do say that we pay your do is say that we will pay your lees— do is say that we will pay your lees on— do is say that we will pay your lees oll ll— do is say that we will pay your fees off if you— do is say that we will pay your fees off if you work in the nhs, but fees off if you work in the nhs, lal al— fees off if you work in the nhs, lal al de— fees off if you work in the nhs, but at the moment— fees off if you work in the nhs, but at the moment you leave the was— but at the moment you leave the was yoa— but at the moment you leave the was yoa nave— but at the moment you leave the was yoa nave lo— but at the moment you leave the nhs you have to actually eonllnae— continue paying your fees back ale— continue paying your fees back ale-over— continue paying your fees back like-over the- continue paying your fees back like over the course of like normal over the course of yoaa— like normal over the course of yoaa-lnen— like normal over the course of your-then that- like normal over the course of your then that would your life. and then that would say,— your life. and then that would say-know, — your life. and then that would say,-know,-would- your life. and then that would say, know, would tie say, you know, that would tie people— say, you know, that would tie people-was- say, you know, that would tie people-was so- say, you know, that would tie people nhs so that they people to the nhs so that they don-l— people to the nhs so that they don-l nave— people to the nhs so that they don-l nave lo— people to the nhs so that they don't have to pay— people to the nhs so that they don't have to pay their fees lack— don't have to pay their fees laelllney— don't have to pay their fees back they something back if they give something back to back if they give something back lo-eoanlny. — back if they give something back lo-eoanlny. dal— back if they give something back to-country. but what- back if they give something back to-country. but what i- back if they give something back to country. : to the country. but what i would say is all these junior doctors, they about how the is they talk about how the nhs is amazing and have to sustain amazing and we have to sustain it it's the you know, it and it's the best you know, the envy of the world. and then they go off to countries where there are different models of funding their health services, which interesting. which is quite interesting. i believe australia a social believe australia has a social insurance but still insurance model, but it's still universal. going universal. anyway, we're going to on. please do keep your to move on. please do keep your views in on nhs. views coming in on the nhs. i know it's a it's a big topic and we talk about it all hour we could talk about it all hour really, couldn't we? but anyway, the she the the home secretary, she said the government to government is committed to ending migrant ending cross—channel migrant boats. course she has, boats. of course she has, despite a ruling that its

despite a court ruling that its rwanda is unlawful. rwanda policy is unlawful. braverman mps she would do braverman told mps she would do whatever it takes to stop the boats and that it's not over yet . but do you think it's game over for the plan, or can braverman salvage it some? how well, david, can she salvage it somehow? no. and the rwanda plan was always going to fail. it was set up to fail. it was announced in april 2022, last year, just before the local election campaign, where the tory party was actually worried about losing loads of seats. i think it was throwing some red meat to their supporters to get them to go out and vote. so cynical. well, i mean, i look at it and it was never going to work because you send some people to rwanda on a plane and then we take some people who are refugees in rwanda and put them on a plane back to the uk. so it was not a deportation scheme. it was not a deportation scheme. it was exchange it has was an exchange scheme. it has £120 million and it's only going to be viable for a couple of thousand people over five years. it's all set up to fail. they

need to do far, far more. and i'll tell you what that is. well, you hold that thought. i'll well, you hold that thought. l-ll one— well, you hold that thought. i'll come back— well, you hold that thought. i'll come back to you with you can-wnal— i'll come back to you with you can _what the - i'll come back to you with you can what the perfect can tell us what the perfect solallon— can tell us what the perfect solution-david. - can tell us what the perfect solution david. daniel, solution is. david. but daniel, lye— solution is. david. but daniel, i've seen that— solution is. david. but daniel, i've seen that certain european oannles— i've seen that certain european oannles ale— i've seen that certain european countries are thinking, considering- countries are thinking, considering about adopting some nad— considering about adopting some and ol— considering about adopting some kind of rwanda— considering about adopting some kind of rwanda scheme. a lot of people— kind of rwanda scheme. a lot of people say— kind of rwanda scheme. a lot of people say lnls— kind of rwanda scheme. a lot of people say this is— kind of rwanda scheme. a lot of people say this is immoral, it's lnnanane— people say this is immoral, it's lnnanane .— people say this is immoral, it's inhumane. it's— people say this is immoral, it's inhumane . it's certainly inhumane. it's certainly anlawlal— inhumane. it's certainly unlawful, at— inhumane. it's certainly unlawful, at least if you agree wlln— unlawful, at least if you agree wlln wnal— unlawful, at least if you agree with what the— unlawful, at least if you agree with what the courts have said. and— with what the courts have said. and dal— with what the courts have said. and but other— with what the courts have said. and but other european countries are and but other european countries aelaally— and but other european countries are actually considering this tyin:— are actually considering this lyne ol— are actually considering this type of thing- _ are actually considering this type of thing, 4.35. i are actually considering this type of thing. / an: type of thing. yeah, and that's in the context which a lot of the lefty remainer world hasn't noficed the lefty remainer world hasn't noticed that that a large number of european countries have swung markedly in their markedly to the right in their recent elections. and it is countries like that which are now saying, hey, is a great now saying, hey, this is a great idea britain and is idea from britain and this is what we should be doing. and they're exploring it as s0 they're exploring it as well. so i going to it's i think that it's going to it's going to spread, whether it's around or another country. i think it's going spread think it's going to spread answers questions answers to your questions because there are two separate questions. first of all is can

the home secretary win this in the home secretary win this in the courts and ensure it's lawful , either by the courts and ensure it's lawful, either by making some changes to it or by taking pot luck with the supreme court? i think the answer is yes. that is very, very likely. and she can pursue that . and i think that we pursue that. and i think that we will win in the courts in due course. and she can make the scheme because they haven't said the scheme is bad. is wrong in principle. they've just said that particular moment, that at that particular moment, the with rwanda the arrangements with rwanda didn't provide sufficient safeguards that could change, that could be changed by agreement with the rwandans and by binding agreements with them. so i think that she can do that. the second question is the one david's been addressing is if the scheme is in place, will it work? have a deterrent work? will it have a deterrent effect i think it will have effect? i think it will have a very significant deterrent effect. huge numbers of these these crossing in. these people were crossing in. small paid small boats have either paid hard cash in order to come to england. several thousand pounds, or they have given commitments of appalling commitments of appalling commitments of appalling commitments of enslaving themselves , effectively, putting

themselves, effectively, putting themselves, effectively, putting themselves in bonded labour to criminals for years . and i think criminals for years. and i think if they once they start seeing that by if you land on british soil in a small boat and five minutes later you're on a plane off to rwanda, that they will stop paying that money. and the business model of those criminal businesses will collapse. well, that's what i assumed- businesses will collapse. well, that's what i assumed ,- q t well, that's what i assumed , david. that's what i assumed, david. i agnee— that's what i assumed, david. i agree wlln— that's what i assumed, david. i agree with daniel— that's what i assumed, david. i agree with daniel on that one. if agree with daniel on that one. rl yoe— agree with daniel on that one. if you're paying— agree with daniel on that one. if you're paying a_ agree with daniel on that one. if you're paying a ,2,000 to lne— if you're paying a ,2,000 to cross the channel- if you're paying a ,2,000 to cross the channel to get to england— cross the channel to get to england and— cross the channel to get to england and then you're sent to rwanda— england and then you're sent to llwanda yoa— england and then you're sent to rwanda, you are— england and then you're sent to rwanda, you are going to tell yoar— rwanda, you are going to tell yoar lrlends— rwanda, you are going to tell your friends or— rwanda, you are going to tell your friends or you're going to en— your friends or you're going to lell olnen— your friends or you're going to tell other people— your friends or you're going to tell other people in calais not to tell other people in calais not lo one— tell other people in calais not to come, aren't— tell other people in calais not to come, aren't you? but no one's been sent to rwanda yet. that's the problem. and no one will that's the problem. and no one wlll leaase— that's the problem. and no one will because it— that's the problem. and no one will because it hasn't- that's the problem. and no one will because it hasn't got- will because it hasn't got lnoagn— will because it hasn't got lnroagn lne— will because it hasn't got through the courts yet. no. 'n: through the courts yet. no. and it through the courts yet. no. and ll won-l— through the courts yet. no. and ll won-l gel— through the courts yet. no. and it won't get through— through the courts yet. no. and it won't get through the courts because when they're always going to put up the obstacle of the european the echr, the european convention human and convention on human rights, and we that in order we need to leave that in order to to do this. and, you to be able to do this. and, you know, just put through the know, she's just put through the other thing that's happened this

week the immigration week is that the immigration bill she's putting bill that she's putting through in happen has in order to make this happen has been to the house been smacked back to the house of by lords. and one of commons by the lords. and one of commons by the lords. and one of amendments they in is of the amendments they put in is to that we must adhere to to say that we must adhere to the international treaties that we've signed so there's we've signed up to. so there's the echr, there's the refugee the echr, there's the un refugee convention. of those convention. now, both of those two things are a block in terms of human rights, in sending people to rwanda with this scheme. so we need to come out of both of them for actually for this scheme to actually happen. but than that, we need to but better than that, we need to push the boats back to france as they cross the channel. that's not going to happen- they cross the channel. that's not going to happen . - they cross the channel. that's not going to happen . that's even not going to happen. that's even lar— not going to happen. that's even more far fetched than rwanda. no, not. it's not going to no, it's not. it's not going to nannen— no, it's not. it's not going to happen because— no, it's not. it's not going to happen because sending the happen because we're sending the loyal— happen because we're sending the loyal-were— happen because we're sending the royal-we're sending- happen because we're sending the royal-we're sending the. royal navy. we're sending the border pick people up. border force to pick people up. just sending them. hang on, just stop sending them. hang on, david. french won't take david. the french won't take them back, will they, daniel? the french take them back. the french won't take them back. we're pledged to spend we're already pledged to spend something. it? £500 something. like what is it? £500 million? going send to million? we're going to send to the french over the next three years to help police years in order to help police the stop people the border and to stop people from not working. the from crossing, not working. the only seems to

only thing that seems to be working that we working is the agreement that we have with the albanian president, prime minister, which seems to be working on reducing the numbers of albanians coming oven the numbers of albanians coming over. the numbers still seem over. but the numbers still seem to be on track to be very high indeed this year. they do. but you indeed this year. they do. but yoa an— indeed this year. they do. but yoa do— indeed this year. they do. but yoa do a— indeed this year. they do. but you can do a deal— indeed this year. they do. but you can do a deal with- i: they do. but you can do a deal with the aenon— you can do a deal with the french that— you can do a deal with the french that works. so, for example,— french that works. so, for example, remember they used to all-lnroagn— example, remember they used to all-through the— example, remember they used to all through the tunnel us all come through the tunnel us in all come through the tunnel us ln lornles— all come through the tunnel us in lorries and— all come through the tunnel us in lorries and trying to get onlo— in lorries and trying to get onlo lnalns— in lorries and trying to get onto trains and— in lorries and trying to get onto trains and things like lad.— onto trains and things like an and— onto trains and things like that. and they'd through that. and they'd come through the that. and they'd come through lne lannel. — that. and they'd come through the tunnel. the— that. and they'd come through the tunnel. the security built roand— the tunnel. the security built roand lne— the tunnel. the security built round the tunnel. now is such lnal— round the tunnel. now is such an nobody— round the tunnel. now is such that nobody comes through on ad— that nobody comes through on an roael — that nobody comes through on that route. nobody can get lnroagn— that route. nobody can get lnroagn on— that route. nobody can get through on that route. that's why— through on that route. that's wny lney-we— through on that route. that's why they've moved over to small loals— why they've moved over to small loals. lnal-s— why they've moved over to small boats. that's where— why they've moved over to small boats. that's where the small loals— boats. that's where the small loals ensls— boats. that's where the small boats crisis has— boats. that's where the small boats crisis has come from. it's cone-aelaally— boats crisis has come from. it's come actually success in come from actually success in eloslng— come from actually success in eloslng oll— come from actually success in closing off the— come from actually success in closing off the tunnel route. so you— closing off the tunnel route. so yoa an— closing off the tunnel route. so yoa nake— closing off the tunnel route. so you can make agreements with the aenon— you can make agreements with the renal lnal— you can make agreements with the french that stick— you can make agreements with the french that stick if— you can make agreements with the french that stick if they want to. french that stick if they want lo. rl-s— french that stick if they want lo. as a— french that stick if they want lo. as a good— french that stick if they want to. it's a good question. now, if to. it's a good question. now, ll lney— to. it's a good question. now, ll lney do— to. it's a good question. now, if they do want— to. it's a good question. now, if they do want to— to. it's a good question. now, if they do want to post brexit and— if they do want to post brexit and lney-we— if they do want to post brexit and lney-we gol— if they do want to post brexit and they've got other issues and concerns as well— and they've got other issues and concerns as well like the soanlny-s— concerns as well like the eoanlny-s ln— concerns as well like the country's in flames and their problema— country's in flames and their problemr ol— country's in flames and their problem, of course, as always ,

problem, of course, as always, lnere— problem, of course, as always, lnene nave— problem, of course, as always, there have been— problem, of course, as always, there have been calls from commentators— there have been calls from commentators ,_ there have been calls from commentators , opposition parties commentators, opposition parties for commentators, opposition parties lor saella— commentators, opposition parties for suella braverman to resign, get for suella braverman to resign, gel lne— for suella braverman to resign, gel lne saal. — for suella braverman to resign, get the sack. she's- for suella braverman to resign, get the sack. lin: get the sack. she's failed. she's awful . she's, you know, she's awful. she's, you know, this nasty woman. do you think rishi sunak should give her the sack over this? no, not at all. i mean, it's not her fault. i think that the scheme was introduced by priti patel originally, but, i mean, she wants to. to carry it on. but like i said, i don't think the rwanda scheme is going to work. but she does as suella braverman. she's one the few braverman. she's one of the few people in the conservative party who a conservative who is actually a conservative lviv and does, i think, genuinely want to control our borders. but she's not going far enough. not talking about enough. she's not talking about coming echr and coming out of the echr and pushing the boats back to france. could have state of france. we could have a state of emergency the channel which emergency in the channel which would us to that. would allow us to do that. that's needs to be that's what needs to be declared. then we can do declared. and then we can do that. and that's just half the problem, because there's also still people coming on the still people coming in on the back lorries that we don't back of lorries that we don't see. don't see see. you know, we don't see those like those poor those people like those poor vietnamese were found dead vietnamese who were found dead in in tilbury. that's

in a lorry in tilbury. that's also happening as well. so there's far more that we there's far, far more that we need to do to control our borders, from illegal borders, both from illegal immigration and legal immigration and legal immigration as well, which is out of control, which that's the whole a whole other whole issue, a whole other debate. we could talk about that for debate. we could talk about that lor noars— debate. we could talk about that lor noars lo— debate. we could talk about that for hours to you. _ debate. we could talk about that for hours to you. imean,- : we could talk about that for hours to you. a for hours to you. i mean, the government just completely government has just completely let on issue . i let us down on this issue. i know an extremely know it is an extremely difficult issue to solve . kyiv difficult issue to solve. kyiv an extremely difficult problem to solve. but the government are running out of time now, aren't they? rishi sunak five big pledges, one of them being stop the boats . he's not stopping the the boats. he's not stopping the boats, he said he was making progress, then experts said progress, but then experts said it's simply because of the weather . he set a pretty weather. he set himself a pretty tall order. well, he has made it dear— tall order. well, he has made it dear lnal— tall order. well, he has made it dear lnal ne— tall order. well, he has made it clear that he wishes— : well, he has made it clear that he wishes to be radged— clear that he wishes to be radged ny— clear that he wishes to be radged ny ns— clear that he wishes to be judged by his pledges. and that, i'm judged by his pledges. and that, m ls— judged by his pledges. and that, i'm sure, is what— judged by his pledges. and that, i'm sure, is what the electorate wlll— i'm sure, is what the electorate wlll do. — i'm sure, is what the electorate wlll do. so— i'm sure, is what the electorate wlll do. so ln— i'm sure, is what the electorate will do. so i'm confident he's going— will do. so i'm confident he's golng lo— will do. so i'm confident he's going to deliver— will do. so i'm confident he's going to deliver them. 'n: will do. so i'm confident he's going to deliver them. ' n: going to deliver them. and on an— going to deliver them. and on an noae.— going to deliver them. and on that note, coming up, nigel farage has claimed that his bank accounts have been closed without explanation. should companies be allowed to shut out

customers on the basis of politics? this

on gb news. the people's channel nnllaln— on gb news. the people's channel nnllaln ls— on gb news. the people's channel britain is watching— on gb news. the people's channel britain is watching ._ on gb news. the people's channel britain is watching . t britain is watching. welcome back— britain is watching. welcome back lo— britain is watching. welcome back to dewbs& co. with me, emily carver, keeping me company. still until 7:00 is daniel moylan, conservative peer in the house of lords. and david kirton, the leader of the heritage party. so let's get straight into our next story. our very own nigel farage has claimed, i'm sure you've seen, that his bank accounts have been closed explanation. he's closed without explanation. he's calling this a serious political persecution at the very highest level of our system. he believes the establishment are trying to force him out of the uk by closing his bank account. so i want to ask , should companies be want to ask, should companies be allowed to shut out customers on the basis of their politics if they don't approve of what you say, what you say in the media? perhaps you're a politician. if you say something they don't like, should they be able to say you we're washing our

you know what, we're washing our hands what do you think, hands of you? what do you think, david? this is something that's been— david? this is something that's been lalldlng— david? this is something that's been building over— ia n:7 this is something that's been building over years. been building over 20 years. i ane— been building over 20 years. i mean, the -first- been building over 20 years. i mean, the-first party- been building over 20 years. i mean, the -first party that| mean, the very first party that was out a bank account, was shut out of a bank account, i think was the bnp. now, i think that some of what they say is deplorable. i mean, some of them that i'm not them would say that i'm not british colour of british because of the colour of my but then it moved on my skin. but then it moved on from them to tommy robinson. and again, you there's someone again, you know, there's someone that to talk that people don't like to talk about. katie hopkins about. then katie hopkins is then fox. now nigel then laurence fox. now nigel farage. so it started that people now people at the fringe is and now it's into mainstream it's come into the mainstream team. so you see it as growing in team. so you see it as growing ln nnonneraannl — team. so you see it as growing in momentum. yeah,- so you see it as growing in momentum. / in momentum. yeah, i mean, over 20 years it started with you know, people that no one would defend someone who know, people that no one would dethei someone who know, people that no one would dethe leader someone who know, people that no one would dethe leader of someone who know, people that no one would dethe leader of ukip;omeone who know, people that no one would dethe leader of ukip backyne who know, people that no one would dethe leader of ukip back in who is the leader of ukip back in the day who won a european election, you know, as the biggest party uk in terms biggest party in the uk in terms of votes in 2014. so it's come right now into the centre of the mainstream. and, you know, this is a big problem. um, do you lnlnl— is a big problem. um, do you an lnls— is a big problem. um, do you think this is— is a big problem. um, do you think this is a— inng um, do you think this is a conscious effort by lnese— think this is a conscious effort by these companies? bannau aukus to by these companies? bannau aukus lo well— by these companies? bannau aukus lo well ny— by these companies? bannau aukus lo well lny lo— by these companies? bannau aukus to well, try to censor— by these companies? bannau aukus to well, try to censor people, try

to well, try to censor people, lny lo, — to well, try to censor people, lny lo, on— to well, try to censor people, lny lo, on do— to well, try to censor people, try to, or do they— to well, try to censor people, try to, or do they just want to nroleel— try to, or do they just want to nroleel lnelr— try to, or do they just want to protect their own _ try to, or do they just want to protect their own reputations leaase— protect their own reputations lease lney— protect their own reputations because they think that i don't know. — because they think that i don't know. algel— because they think that i don't know. nigel farage is to controversial. - know. nigel farage is to controversial. they don't want to controversial. they don't want lo re,— controversial. they don't want lo le, an— controversial. they don't want lo le, an yoa— controversial. they don't want to be, uh, you know, joined to arm— to be, uh, you know, joined to an ln— to be, uh, you know, joined to an ln any— to be, uh, you know, joined to an ln any way.— to be, uh, you know, joined to him in any way. what do you lnlnl— him in any way. what do you an as— him in any way. what do you think it's about— him in any way. what do you think it's about what i think is aloal— think it's about what i think is about actually— think it's about what i think is about actually is— think it's about what i think is about actually is money laundering— about actually is money laundering regulations and their eonllele— laundering regulations and their complete misapplication. md laundering regulations and their complete misapplication. 3g complete misapplication. right. okay.— complete misapplication. right. okay. under— complete misapplication. right. okay. under a— complete misapplication. right. okay. under a regulator, the financial conduct authority , financial conduct authority, which is totally useless and the burden of these regulations on the banks is now got to the point where many of them are saying we're not going to apply these regulations anymore because it's so burdensome, so expensive and so to do expensive and so difficult to do it. rather close the it. we'd rather close the customers accounts. it's cheaper and for us to say we'd and easier for us to say we'd rather not have you as a client and this is happening to huge numbers. so you don't think this is numbers. so you don't think this ls aloal— numbers. so you don't think this is about political— so you don't think this is about political persecution? rally— is about political persecution? ranlly aloal— is about political persecution? narlly aloal ll— is about political persecution? partly about it might- is about political persecution? partly about it might be- is about political persecution? partly about it might be about political persecution. and david has . and it's happened has a point. and it's happened to the speech union as well to the free speech union as well . the so—called liberal . and in the so—called liberal canada, of course, they did it to the truckers who were

protesting. yes. and cut off their access to their banks as well. so it can be used as an instrument of political persecution , but it's also being persecution, but it's also being used . it's also the banks used. it's also the banks themselves who are not being properly regulated and they're not properly applying the regulation . these are doing this regulation. these are doing this because it's become too much trouble . and half the time, you trouble. and half the time, you know, they don't even do this work themselves. they outsource it companies which it to other companies which specialise in it , it to other companies which specialise in it, and they it to other companies which specialise in it , and they get specialise in it, and they get paid by the amount of work they do. so your name comes around all the time. in my own family because i'm a politically exposed person . anyone who's exposed person. anyone who's a member of house of lords, member of the house of lords, anyone a member of anyone who's a member of parliament, judge , a diplomat, parliament, a judge, a diplomat, a the royal family you a member of the royal family you and family, you're and all your family, and you're known associates covered by known associates are covered by this. had happen a this. i've had it happen to a member of family who's member of my family who's a pensioner twice his pensioner who's twice had his account frozen, and we've had to get . taken weeks, get unblock. it's taken weeks, of during that time his of course, during that time his direct debits aren't paid, which means he can't get access to means and he can't get access to his has an effect on

his pension. it has an effect on his pension. it has an effect on his credit rating. it's preposterous pensioner. preposterous for a pensioner. well, you can't live without a lank— well, you can't live without a bank account,— well, you can't live without a bank account, you? c bank account, can you? it's very.— bank account, can you? it's very. very— bank account, can you? it's very, very hard. very- bank account, can you? c rlig rlig ’a”n: very hard to very, very hard. very hard to lanellon. — very, very hard. very hard to function. you— very, very hard. very hard to function. you can't- rlig rlig ’a”n: very hard to function. you can't have a job. loa— function. you can't have a job. voa need— function. you can't have a job. voa need lo— function. you can't have a job. you need to be— function. you can't have a job. you need to be paid well, you know,— you need to be paid well, you know, anless— you need to be paid well, you know, unless you're getting cash in know, unless you're getting cash ln-llgnl.— know, unless you're getting cash ln-llgnl.-lo- know, unless you're getting cashi in-right.-to have in hand, right. you need to have a lank— in hand, right. you need to have a bank account. _ in hand, right. you need to have a bank account. / in hand, right. you need to have a bank account. i/lia�* " a bank account. yeah. i mean, maybe that's what people will start they will go back start to do. they will go back to having hand. i mean, to having cash in hand. i mean, you can you know, it's almost everyone almost can get a bank account a fintech company, account with a fintech company, you as you card. you know, a pay as you go card. but very you know, if but it's very hard, you know, if you if you don't have a bank account most people account because most people don't them. people don't go to them. some people don't go to them. some people don't about this don't even know about this blacklist thing people. this blacklist thing of people. this is just an iteration of cancel calde— is just an iteration of cancel culture, isn't— is just an iteration of cancel culture, isn't it?— is just an iteration of cancel culture, isn't it? these banks snalllng— culture, isn't it? these banks shutting - because - culture, isn't it? these banks shutting because they start shutting down because they start wlln— shutting down because they start wlln-lnow— shutting down because they start with, know, progressive with, you know, the progressive lweels— with, you know, the progressive lweels and— with, you know, the progressive tweets and policies, the warm , tweets and policies, the warm, lazzy— tweets and policies, the warm, lazzy dwerslly— tweets and policies, the warm, fuzzy diversity and inclusion , fuzzy diversity and inclusion, and— fuzzy diversity and inclusion, and men— fuzzy diversity and inclusion, and then that— fuzzy diversity and inclusion, and then that progressivism leoe— and then that progressivism becomes aims.— and then that progressivism becomes aims. authoritarianism doesn-l— becomes aims. authoritarianism doesn-l lll — becomes aims. authoritarianism doesn't it? yeah. _ becomes aims. authoritarianism doesn't it? i/lia�* you must agree doesn't it? yeah. you must agree wlln— doesn't it? yeah. you must agree an as— doesn't it? yeah. you must agree an as or— doesn't it? yeah. you must agree an as on we— doesn't it? yeah. you must agree with us or we think— doesn't it? i/lia�* you must agree with us or we think you're leyond— with us or we think you're leyond lne— with us or we think you're beyond the pale. and why woaldn-l— beyond the pale. and why wouldn't why— beyond the pale. and why wouldn't why would we allow you to wouldn't why would we allow you lo nave— wouldn't why would we allow you lo nave oan— wouldn't why would we allow you to have our product,— wouldn't why would we allow you to have our product, have our

lank— to have our product, have our lanl aeeoanll— to have our product, have our bank account? we— to have our product, have our bank account? we don't approve of bank account? we don't approve ol wnal— bank account? we don't approve ol wnal yoa— bank account? we don't approve ol wnal yoa say— bank account? we don't approve of what you say anyway. ilii; of what you say anyway. there are some people— of what you say anyway. there are some people there, you know, on the far left, i would say, on the far left, as i would say, who to totally destroy who want to totally destroy everything that someone has if they don't have the right opinions. started off with no llallorn — opinions. started off with no platform them _ opinions. started off with no platform them on— a started off with no platform them on the stage now lney— platform them on the stage now lney wanl— platform them on the stage now lney wanl a— platform them on the stage now lney wanl a no— platform them on the stage now they want a no platform them lron— they want a no platform them from financial— they want a no platform them from financial institutions , from financial institutions, wnlen— from financial institutions, wnlen ls— from financial institutions, wnlen ls very,— from financial institutions, which is very, very sinister. i lad— which is very, very sinister. i lad an— which is very, very sinister. i had an amendment- which is very, very sinister. i had an amendment to- which is very, very sinister. i had an amendment to the financial services and markets bill only a few weeks ago that would have taken domestic politically exposed persons out of of the law altogether. of scope of the law altogether. the government wasn't having that, but they did say and they agreed to do this, they're obuged agreed to do this, they're obliged now by the law to do this. they're going to carry out a review in 12 months. i bet you they're wishing today that they accepted amendment. they'd accepted my amendment. they'd have all have a knock down answer to all this. well, yes. and if you're at this. well, yes. and if you're al none— this. well, yes. and if you're at home .you've- well, yes. and if you're at home you've been thinking at home and you've been thinking aloal— at home and you've been thinking aloal lnls— at home and you've been thinking about this, please— at home and you've been thinking about this, please do let me know— about this, please do let me know wnal— about this, please do let me know what-think- about this, please do let me know what think about what's know what you think about what's nallened— know what you think about what's nallened-ranage. - know what you think about what's happened farage. you happened to nigel farage. do you lnlnl— happened to nigel farage. do you lnlnl-welln— happened to nigel farage. do you think-victim of— happened to nigel farage. do you think victim of political think he's a victim of political lenseeallonl— think he's a victim of political persecution? it— think he's a victim of political persecution? it certainly looks lnal— persecution? it certainly looks lnal-ne— persecution? it certainly looks that-he certainly- that way. way he certainly lnlnls—lne- that way. way he certainlyl thinks—the kind thinks it is. is this the kind of thinks it is. is this the kind ol-we— thinks it is. is this the kind ol-we no- thinks it is. is this the kind of-we now live- thinks it is. is this the kind of we now live in? but of society we now live in? but

golng— of society we now live in? but golng lo— of society we now live in? but we're going to move on to sonelnlng— we're going to move on to something equally if more something equally, if not more snoellng,— something equally, if not morei snoellngl—on shocking, what's been going on in shocking, what's been going on ln-nearly— shocking, what's been going on ln-nearly loo- shocking, what's been going on in nearly 900 people have in france nearly 900 people have leen— in france nearly 900 people have leen anesled— in france nearly 900 people have been arrested after— in france nearly 900 people have been arrested after a third nlgnl— been arrested after a third night-rioting- been arrested after a third night rioting across france. night of rioting across france. several— night of rioting across france. several hundred— night of rioting across france. several hundred police have been injured— several hundred police have been injured .— several hundred police have been injured . ol— several hundred police have been injured . of course,— several hundred police have been injured . of course, the violence injured. of course, the violence spanked— injured. of course, the violence was sparked across— injured. of course, the violence was sparked across the country by was sparked across the country ly lne— was sparked across the country ly lne lalal— was sparked across the country by the fatal police shooting of a w— by the fatal police shooting of a w year— by the fatal police shooting of a w year old— by the fatal police shooting of a 17 year old boy— by the fatal police shooting of a 17 year old boy ,_ by the fatal police shooting of a 17 year old boy , nato m during a 17 year old boy, nato in during a 17 year old boy, nato m during alrallle— a 17 year old boy, nato m during a lrallle slop— a 17 year old boy, nato m during a lrallle slol .— a 17 year old boy, nato m during a traffic stop . daniel this is a traffic stop. daniel this is slow— a traffic stop. daniel this is slow llng— a traffic stop. daniel this is show king what's going on in rnaneel— show king what's going on in rraneel ol— show king what's going on in france? of course— show king what's going on in france? of course , we've seen france? of course, we've seen lnal— france? of course, we've seen an rrane — france? of course, we've seen that france can— france? of course, we've seen that france can sometimes be a llllle— that france can sometimes be a llllle ll— that france can sometimes be a llllle lll ol— that france can sometimes be a little bit of a— that france can sometimes be a little bit of a tinderbox, can it little bit of a tinderbox, can ll now— little bit of a tinderbox, can ll noll lal— little bit of a tinderbox, can it not? but this— little bit of a tinderbox, can it not? but this seems to be sonelnlng— it not? but this seems to be something different that we're seelng— something different that we're seelng ln— something different that we're seeing in paris— something different that we're seeing in paris and across the eoanlry— seeing in paris and across the eoanlry . — seeing in paris and across the eoanlry . lo.— seeing in paris and across the eoanlry . wo. ll— seeing in paris and across the country . \nlin a nlin" g seeing in paris and across the country . \nlin a lallin" g seeing in paris and across the country . \nlin a mania“ 0 a“«n country. no, it won't be any different. the french have never succeeded in integrating or even wanting to integrate their immigrant population. i don't know anything about this young man except what i've heard on the papers. but it's possible that he's recently arrived immigrant. but it's equally possible his family's been in france for the last 3 or 4 generations, but they're still living, most of them, in these social tower blocks in what are

called the bonlieu, the so—called suburbs of paris. and the french attitude to it seems to be rather different from ours. the french attitude is that occasionally you have a riot. you put the lid on it and then you go back to normal and you don't do anything about it till the next riot. yes, i have elenene— till the next riot. yes, i have experience of— till the next riot. yes, i have experience of the— g q “like yes, i have experience of the parisian lannaa— experience of the parisian bannau because on a study year alroad— bannau because on a study year ahead, r— bannau because on a study year abroad, i studied— bannau because on a study year abroad, i studied french at anwenslly— abroad, i studied french at university as— abroad, i studied french at university as-of- abroad, i studied french at- university as-of-degree. university as part of my degree. i university as part of my degree. r weal— university as part of my degree. r wenl lo— university as part of my degree. r wenl lo a— university as part of my degree. i went to a university in one of le— i went to a university in one of we lologna— i went to a university in one of the bologna populated , i'd say the bologna populated, i'd say goo.— the bologna populated, i'd say ago. ly— the bologna populated, i'd say ago. ly donn— the bologna populated, i'd say 90% by north african heritage people— 90% by north african heritage people and.— 90% by north african heritage people and. and— 90% by north african heritage people and. and you could see lnal— people and. and you could see an only— people and. and you could see that totally no _ people and. and you could see that totally no integration with the that totally no integration with we aenon.— that totally no integration with the french. you— that totally no integration with the french. you know, you'd come in, the french. you know, you'd come ln ll— the french. you know, you'd come ln l was— the french. you know, you'd come in, it was where— the french. you know, you'd come in, it was where the— the french. you know, you'd come in, it was where the airport and— in, it was where the airport was, and then— in, it was where the airport was, and then people would navel— was, and then people would lrawel ln— was, and then people would travel in and— was, and then people would travel in and then forget the lologna— travel in and then forget the lologna. lo— travel in and then forget the bologna. do you— travel in and then forget the bologna. do you think this is a eoneaeneeg— bologna. do you think this is a consequence? this— bologna. do you think this is a consequence? this type of unrest is consequence? this type of unrest ls a— consequence? this type of unrest is a consequence of— consequence? this type of unrest is a consequence of failed multicultural— is a consequence of failed multicultural ism in france. ralled— multicultural ism in france. failed integration policies ? failed integration policies? veal.— failed integration policies? veal. ll— failed integration policies? veal. ll las.— failed integration policies? yeah, it has. i— failed integration policies? yeah, it has. i mean,- failed integration policies? / g yeah, it has. i mean, wherever you have rapid mass immigration , as most western european

countries have had, who's driving this? i'm not sure. but it causes problems because people come in at such a rate they don't immediately become french or german or british. as soon as they cross the border, they keep their values. this is talking about people- ” this is talking about people who've ollen— talking about people who've ollen leen— talking about people who've often been there for three, four genenallons. — often been there for three, four generations. these are people wnose— generations. these are people whose families— generations. these are people whose families came to france in the whose families came to france in we loos— whose families came to france in we relos very— whose families came to france in the 1950s, very often, and there nas— the 1950s, very often, and there nas leen— the 1950s, very often, and there nas leen no— the 1950s, very often, and there has been no integration. that's the remarkable— has been no integration. that's the remarkable difference. there are the remarkable difference. there people— the remarkable difference. there leolle ol— the remarkable difference. there are people of north african nenllage— are people of north african heritage living— are people of north african heritage living in this country. i heritage living in this country. r know— heritage living in this country. r know ln— heritage living in this country. i know in parts— heritage living in this country. i know in parts of— heritage living in this country. i know in parts of london, esleelally— i know in parts of london, especially italy, who have been nere— especially italy, who have been nere lon— especially italy, who have been nere lor lne— especially italy, who have been here for the last— especially italy, who have been here for the last eight, whose landles— here for the last eight, whose families have— here for the last eight, whose families have been here for 3 or 4 families have been here for 3 or a generallons— families have been here for 3 or 4 generations, and— families have been here for 3 or 4 generations, and they are very , very— 4 generations, and they are very , weny naen— 4 generations, and they are very new naen none— 4 generations, and they are very , very much more integrated into sodely— , very much more integrated into soelely. rney-re— , very much more integrated into society. they're very much more part— society. they're very much more larl ol— society. they're very much more pan ol sodely— society. they're very much more part of society than— society. they're very much more part of society than is the case in part of society than is the case ln rnane — part of society than is the case in france. the— part of society than is the case in france. the french just don't lo— in france. the french just don't lo le— in france. the french just don't seem to be interested or care . seem to be interested or care. so seem to be interested or care. so do— seem to be interested or care. so do yoa— seem to be interested or care. so do you blame— seem to be interested or care. so do you blame the- seem to be interested or care. so do you blame the french? i think then i think like many lanolean— think then i think like many european countries, they're aelaally— european countries, they're actually there _ european countries, they're actually there are many european oannles— actually there are many european oannles and—

actually there are many european countries and it's— actually there are many european countries and it's a— actually there are many european countries and it's a hard thing to countries and it's a hard thing lo say. — countries and it's a hard thing lo say. lal— countries and it's a hard thing to say. but where— countries and it's a hard thing to say. but where racism is much a sallle— to say. but where racism is much more a subtle sort— to say. but where racism is much more a subtle sort of racism is naen— more a subtle sort of racism is much more acceptable than it woald— much more acceptable than it woald le— much more acceptable than it would be here— much more acceptable than it would be here and overt and oven— would be here and overt and owerl and— would be here and overt and overt and overt— would be here and overt and overt and overt sort of racism is overt and overt sort of racism ls naen— overt and overt sort of racism ls naen none— overt and overt sort of racism is much more acceptable than it woald— is much more acceptable than it woald le— is much more acceptable than it would be here.— is much more acceptable than it would be here. yes,— is much more acceptable than it would be here. yes, not just rnane— would be here. yes, not just rrane . — would be here. yes, not just rrane . lla— would be here. yes, not just france . “nt n:li“ would be here. yes, not just france. the incident that triggered this thing that's happening in france now and i've seen it. it is shocking. i mean, they should have shot the tires out of the car rather than shooting the ball. oh, yeah. i can see why people are angry and dlslarled— can see why people are angry and dlslarled ly— can see why people are angry and disturbed by this.— can see why people are angry and disturbed by this. of course, we nad— disturbed by this. of course, we nadlslnllar— disturbed by this. of course, we hadlsimilar thing— disturbed by this. of course, we had similar thing the uk in had a similar thing in the uk in zon— had a similar thing in the uk in zoll wnen— had a similar thing in the uk in 2011 when mark— had a similar thing in the uk in 2011 when mark duggan was shot by 2011 when mark duggan was shot ly lollee— 2011 when mark duggan was shot by police tottenham, in north by police in tottenham, in north london— by police in tottenham, in north london and— by police in tottenham, in north london and-thing- by police in tottenham, in north london and thing with both london and the thing with both of london and the thing with both ol-lnlngs— london and the thing with both ol-lnlngs ls— of these things is the government, police of these things is the- government,-police acted government, the police acted very,— government, the police acted very-galekly— government, the police acted very-quickly to- government, the police acted very, quickly to arrest the very, very quickly to arrest the lolleenan— very, very quickly to arrest the policeman who— very, very quickly to arrest the policeman who was at fault. t hey— policeman who was at fault. lley lave— policeman who was at fault. they have done— policeman who was at fault. they have done that- policeman who was at fault. they have done that in- policeman who was at fault. they have done that in france and they've you know, they've already put him up on a charge of manslaughter. but the genie is out of the bottle. and i think there's a lot of pent up. obviously, you know, the tensions are just there and how

they get a lid on it, i don't know. it's a lot of pent up lensrons — know. it's a lot of pent up tensions. it's— it's a lot of pent up tensions. it's quite extraordinary that this will be the extraordinary that this will be we loann— extraordinary that this will be the fourth night— extraordinary that this will be the fourth night of riots this ewenlng— the fourth night of riots this ewenlng .— the fourth night of riots this evening . interestingly, to your evening. interestingly, to your poll,— evening. interestingly, to your poll won— evening. interestingly, to your point, macron seems to be slandlng— point, macron seems to be slandlng al— point, macron seems to be standing up for— point, macron seems to be standing up for the police, saylng— standing up for the police, saylng lnal— standing up for the police, saying that none of this is raslllled. — saying that none of this is justified. _well- saying that none of this is justified. well call justified. he may well call a sale— justified. he may well call a slale ol— justified. he may well call a state of emergency. i know there are state of emergency. i know there alews n— state of emergency. i know there are curfews in many towns and dlles— are curfews in many towns and dlles ln— are curfews in many towns and cities in france— are curfews in many towns and cities in france tonight to try to cities in france tonight to try lo sloo— cities in france tonight to try lo slol lne— cities in france tonight to try to stop the worst— cities in france tonight to try to stop the worst of this. but people— to stop the worst of this. but people brandishing ak 47 seconds lnon— people brandishing ak 47 seconds lron ol— people brandishing ak 47 seconds from some of the— people brandishing ak 47 seconds from some of the footage we've seen, violence, looting , seen, violence, looting, rlollng— seen, violence, looting, nollng. rl— seen, violence, looting, rioting. it really is what you'd ekleel— rioting. it really is what you'd ekleel lo— rioting. it really is what you'd ekleel lo see— rioting. it really is what you'd expect to see in— rioting. it really is what you'd expect to see in a— rioting. it really is what you'd expect to see in a war zone. by lne— expect to see in a war zone. by lne looks— expect to see in a war zone. by lne looks ol— expect to see in a war zone. by the looks of things— expect to see in a war zone. by the looks of things by some of the looks of things by some of we loolage— the looks of things by some of the footage that— the looks of things by some of the footage that is coming lnroagn. — the footage that is coming lnroagn. lal— the footage that is coming through. but coming up, white males— through. but coming up, white nales ln— through. but coming up, white nales ln lne— through. but coming up, white males in the raf,— through. but coming up, white males in the raf, the royal air roe— males in the raf, the royal air force, were apparently discriminated against in a neerallnenl— discriminated against in a recruitment drive aimed at loosllng— recruitment drive aimed at boosting diversity. so what's going— boosting diversity. so what's golng on— boosting diversity. so what's going on there?— boosting diversity. so what's going on there? stay tuned .

”3 welcome back welcome back to dewbs& sorry. welcome back to dewbs& co. - sorry. welcome back to dewbs& co. wlln— . sorry. welcome back to dewbs& co. all me— . sorry. welcome back to dewbs& co. with me, emily— - sorry. welcome back to dewbs& co. with me, emily carver.- welcome back to dewbs& co. with me, emily carver. i'm slandlng— co. with me, emily carver. i'm slandlng ln— co. with me, emily carver. i'm standing in for— co. with me, emily carver. i'm standing in for michelle. so our lasl— standing in for michelle. so our lasl slony— standing in for michelle. so our lasl slonyllne— standing in for michelle. so our last story the night, the last story of the night, the lead— last story of the night, the lead ol— last story of the night, the head of-has- last story of the night, the head of has been last story of the night, the- head of-has been made to head of the raf has been made to alologlse— head of the raf has been made to alologlse aller— head of the raf has been made to apologise after an— head of the raf has been made to apologise after an inquiry found lnal— apologise after an inquiry found lnallwnlle— apologise after an inquiry found that-white male— apologise after an inquiry found that white male aviators were that 31 white male aviators were discriminated— that 31 white male aviators were discriminated against in favour of discriminated against in favour ol oen— discriminated against in favour ol and— discriminated against in favour of women and ethnic minority eandldales— of women and ethnic minority candidates. this— of women and ethnic minority candidates. this was over a two year— candidates. this was over a two year nerdod— candidates. this was over a two year nerlod. and— candidates. this was over a two year period. and let's get slralgnl— year period. and let's get straight into— year period. and let's get straight into this, daniel. we nawen-l— straight into this, daniel. we nawen-l gol— straight into this, daniel. we haven't got much time left on the haven't got much time left on we snow,— haven't got much time left on the show, unfortunately, but do you the show, unfortunately, but do yoa lnlnk— the show, unfortunately, but do you think-this— the show, unfortunately, but do you think this day and age, you think in this day and age, in you think in this day and age, ln sodely— you think in this day and age, in society,-men- you think in this day and age, in society, men are in society, white men are away— in society, white men are actually being- in society, white men are actually being discriminated agalnsll — actually being discriminated against? well,— actually being discriminated against? �*iflinitt actually being discriminated against? �*ifl�*nitt actually being discriminated against? �*ifl�*nitt aii against? well, we know they are because the raf just said because the raf has just said they and is willing to they are and is willing to compensate it. well, there compensate for it. well, there you compensate for it. well, there yoa-lean— compensate for it. well, there yoa-lean — compensate for it. well, there yoa-lean so — compensate for it. well, there you yeah so there isn't you go. yeah so there isn't despite us about the fact despite us doubt about the fact that happening. bet that it's happening. and i bet it's happening the raf it's happening outside the raf as not just in the as well, and not just in the pubuc as well, and not just in the public sector and in the armed services, but also the services, but also in the private sector in measure. private sector in large measure. so should think it is so yes, i should think it is happening and it's because we are obsessed this constant are obsessed with this constant notion, the notion, especially in the private esg, which is private sector of esg, which is their form of left wing theory

that they impose on themselves and their investors demand it and their investors demand it and their investors demand it and their environmental, social and their environmental, social and whatever concerns us. and they want to produce nice charts and tables showing how many women they employ and what their gender pay gap is and everything like that . and of course, like that. and of course, there's discrimination against men a result, and white men men as a result, and white men in particular. yeah, well, in lerns— in particular. yeah, well, in lerns ol— in particular. yeah, well, in terms of career,— “ t yeah, well, in terms of career, there's never leen — terms of career, there's never leen a— terms of career, there's never leen a leller— terms of career, there's never been a better time to be a lenale— been a better time to be a lenale. we— been a better time to be a female. we have all the options and— female. we have all the options and sometimes— female. we have all the options and sometimes we— female. we have all the options and sometimes we get priority . and sometimes we get priority. veal.— and sometimes we get priority. veal. war.— and sometimes we get priority. yeah, well, you've— and sometimes we get priority. yeah, well, you've always- and sometimes we get priority. yeah, well, you've always had it. you did have the g you did have the opportunity it. you did have the opportunity already.— it. you did have the opportunity already. lal— it. you did have the opportunity already. but yeah— it. you did have the opportunity already. but yeah ,_ g you did have the opportunity already. but yeah , this is the already. but yeah, this is the lgaallly— already. but yeah, this is the lgaallly kel— already. but yeah, this is the equality act, isn't it? which aelaally— equality act, isn't it? which actually specifically allows wnal— actually specifically allows wnallney— actually specifically allows what they call— actually specifically allows what they call positive action. lal— what they call positive action. lal wnal— what they call positive action. but what that— what they call positive action. but what that really is, is nosllwe— but what that really is, is positive discrimination, which is positive discrimination, which lswrong— positive discrimination, which is wrong because and it doesn't make— is wrong because and it doesn't make any— is wrong because and it doesn't make any sense— is wrong because and it doesn't make any sense because if you're a company— make any sense because if you're a company ll— make any sense because if you're a company, ll yoae— make any sense because if you're a company, if you're an organisation— a company, if you're an organisation ,- a company, if you're an organisation , you want to employ organisation, you want to employ the organisation, you want to employ lne lesl— organisation, you want to employ lne lesl neson— organisation, you want to employ the best person for— organisation, you want to employ the best person for the job. so you— the best person for the job. so yoa nave— the best person for the job. so yoa nave lne— the best person for the job. so you have the best— the best person for the job. so you have the best outcomes as a laslness— you have the best outcomes as a laslness on— you have the best outcomes as a laslness on as— you have the best outcomes as a business or as an— you have the best outcomes as a business or as an organisation. lal— business or as an organisation. lal wnen— business or as an organisation. lal wnen yoa— business or as an organisation. but when you have to or decide yoe— but when you have to or decide yoa-re golng— but when you have to or decide yoa-re golng lo— but when you have to or decide you're going to adhere to this eso— you're going to adhere to this ese .— you're going to adhere to this no , as— you're going to adhere to this esg , as daniel— you're going to adhere to this esg , as daniel said, and do

esg, as daniel said, and do losllwe— esg, as daniel said, and do positive action— esg, as daniel said, and do positive action and so on, you but— positive action and so on, you lal people— positive action and so on, you lal neolle ln— positive action and so on, you put people in jobs who are not the put people in jobs who are not we lesl— put people in jobs who are not the best person— put people in jobs who are not the best person for the job. you put the best person for the job. you lal lnen— the best person for the job. you put them there— the best person for the job. you put them there on— the best person for the job. you put them there on the basis that lney-re— put them there on the basis that lney-re a— put them there on the basis that lney-re a oan— put them there on the basis that they're a woman or— put them there on the basis that they're a woman or they have a darker— they're a woman or they have a darker skln— they're a woman or they have a darker skin or— they're a woman or they have a darker skin or they're lgbt. lnal— darker skin or they're lgbt. lnal lsn-l— darker skin or they're lgbt. that isn't any— darker skin or they're lgbt. that isn't any way to run a saeeesslal— that isn't any way to run a successful business. it doesn't naller— successful business. it doesn't naller wnal— successful business. it doesn't matter what your— successful business. it doesn't matter what your your sex is or yoar— matter what your your sex is or yoan oloar— matter what your your sex is or yoar oloar ls— matter what your your sex is or your colour is, just— matter what your your sex is or your colour is, just employ the lesl— your colour is, just employ the lesl leson— your colour is, just employ the best person for— your colour is, just employ the best person for the job. that's wnal— best person for the job. that's wnal lasl— best person for the job. that's what just makes— best person for the job. that's what just makes sense. i was lasl— what just makes sense. i was rasl roollng— what just makes sense. i was just rooting through all the lals— just rooting through all the lals lnal— just rooting through all the lals an r— just rooting through all the tabs that i have open on my lanol— tabs that i have open on my lallol nere— tabs that i have open on my laptop here because i made a la— laptop here because i made a llsllslones— laptop here because i made a list-stories that— laptop here because i made a list stories that have come list of stories that have come up list of stories that have come all were— list of stories that have come up where usually— list of stories that have come up where usually public sector, but up where usually public sector, lal also— up where usually public sector, but also companies have hiring nondes— but also companies have hiring lolldes lnal— but also companies have hiring policies that are— but also companies have hiring policies that are blatantly discriminatory— policies that are blatantly discriminatory. policies that are blatantly discriminatory . lik

illegal. clearly, it's not. it's happening and no one's doing anything about positive discrimination. and anything about positive discrimination . and it's all discrimination. and it's all nonsense. but— n: elf and it's all nonsense. but positive action n: gnt and it's all nonsense. but positive action is allowed.— nonsense. but positive action is allowed. positive _ nonsense. but positive action is allowed. positive discrimination is allowed. positive discrimination ls lllegal— allowed. positive discrimination ls lllegal. and— allowed. positive discrimination is illegal. and of— allowed. positive discrimination is illegal. and of course , it's is illegal. and of course, it's very— is illegal. and of course, it's very easy— is illegal. and of course, it's very easy lo— is illegal. and of course, it's very easy to fall— is illegal. and of course, it's very easy to fall either side of lnal— very easy to fall either side of la llne. — very easy to fall either side of la llne. r— very easy to fall either side of that line. i feel— very easy to fall either side of that line. i feel rather sorry lon— that line. i feel rather sorry lor lne— that line. i feel rather sorry for the head— that line. i feel rather sorry for the head of— that line. i feel rather sorry for the head of human resources wno— for the head of human resources wno was— for the head of human resources who was telling— for the head of human resources who was telling the raf top lrass— who was telling the raf top lrass .— who was telling the raf top lrass , koa— who was telling the raf top brass , you are— who was telling the raf top brass , you are asking me to do brass, you are asking me to do sonelnlng— brass, you are asking me to do something which— brass, you are asking me to do something which is illegal. i've laken— something which is illegal. i've laken adwee— something which is illegal. i've taken advice on— something which is illegal. i've taken advice on it— something which is illegal. i've taken advice on it and she was loned— taken advice on it and she was loned oal— taken advice on it and she was loned oal ol— taken advice on it and she was forced out of her— taken advice on it and she was forced out of her job as a nesall. — forced out of her job as a nesall. r— forced out of her job as a result. i hope— forced out of her job as a result. i hope she gets annnonnale— result. i hope she gets appropriate compensation . so the appropriate compensation. so the legal— appropriate compensation. so the legal adwee— appropriate compensation. so the legal advice comes— appropriate compensation. so the legal advice comes in that people— legal advice comes in that people areal— legal advice comes in that people aren't interested because the distinction— people aren't interested because the distinction is— people aren't interested because the distinction is too fine for it the distinction is too fine for l lo— the distinction is too fine for l lo le— the distinction is too fine for it to be applied.— the distinction is too fine for it to be applied. legal and lalrly— it to be applied. legal and lalnly ln— it to be applied. legal and lalrly ln any— it to be applied. legal and fairly in any context . right. fairly in any context. right. well.— fairly in any context. right. well. ol— fairly in any context. right. well, of course,— fairly in any context. right. well, of course, the- fairly in any context. right. well, of course, the alternative view is that we need this kind of positive action because for years and decades before ethnic minorities and women were discriminated against. so this is about balance n: gt : anga so this is about balance passing. �*ifl�*niaa is about balance passing. well, i is about balance passing. well, r mean— is about balance passing. well, r .— is about balance passing. well, r . lnn— is about balance passing. well, i mean , i'm not— is about balance passing. well, i mean , i'm not sure- is about balance passing. well, i mean , i'm not sure about that. i mean, i'm not sure about that. but you don't want to swing the

pendulum too far. the other way, do you? because then you have discrimination the other way. you want have a world where you want to have a world where there is no discrimination. and what need to do is get rid of what we need to do is get rid of these equality act these bits of the equality act which allow this to happen and actually in ways force actually in some ways force companies to do it. this is a bit old fashioned— companies to do it. this is a bit old fashioned to- companies to do it. this is a bit old fashioned to be- t“ n:lin g this is a bit old fashioned to be a to be a—anyway- bit old fashioned to be a to be a—anyway lnal-sl bit old fashioned to be a to bei a_anyway, that's all a white male anyway, that's all gol— a white male anyway, that's all gol llne— a white male anyway, that's all we've got time for. sorry, land.— we've got time for. sorry, lanlel r— we've got time for. sorry, daniel, i know you're just trying to come in, but thank you to panel. daniel moylan and to my panel. daniel moylan and david if missed david curtin. if you've missed any of today's show, you want to catch on previous episodes. catch up on previous episodes. you download the you can, of course download the dewbs& podcast. dewbs& co podcast. it's available you your available wherever you get your podcasts for search podcasts from. just for search dewbs& lee anderson's dewbs& co. lee anderson's real world at the top of world is coming up at the top of the hour. thank you much the hour. thank you very much for joining me.

so tonight, we'll be putting the world to rights with marco longhi mp mp for dudley north, my good friend. also a gb news says— my good friend. also a gb news says nlenelle— my good friend. also a gb news says michelle dewberry- g: ”li“n: also a gb news says michelle dewberry . she