prestigious tric awards. >> well, hello there. it's 6:00. i'm michelle dewberry and this is dewbs& co time flies, doesn't it? is dewbs& co time flies, doesn't it.7 when you are having fun.7 rishi sunak there. i bet he's not been having much fun over the last six months. can you believe that's how long he has beenin believe that's how long he has been in power? i wonder if he ever regrets his decision to be our prime minister. i want to know from you tonight how is he getting on his five pledges? do you remember what even are? you remember what they even are? how doing ? and one of the how is he doing? and one of the mps today in trouble because get this, controversially , this, everyone controversially, he says mps should have their salary doubled. you heard it doubled. he says he'll halve the number that we've got. but what he's basically saying is we need top drawer people. he reckons the only people that are top drawer these days are the people who big bucks. who are earning the big bucks. is right or is that an is he right or is that an elitist attitude? and did you hear the nonsense the bank hear the nonsense about the bank of england saying that basically anyone any gender get anyone of any gender can get pregnant? mean, give me a

pregnant? i mean, give me a break. anyway, reason break. anyway, the reason they're doing because they're all doing it is because companies are absolutely obsessed. i tell you guys with stonewall and their equality indexin stonewall and their equality index in the workplace, why or what is going on and do you drive a car? you will be aware then, of course, of the clean air charges up and down the country. protests in london today about that. is it time to scrap them ? some saying it is scrap them? some saying it is a tax on the poor. speaking of the poon tax on the poor. speaking of the poor, by the way, johnny mercer, he's in trouble because he reckons that a lot of the people that are using food banks are doing it because they're doing it to and that is it to budget. and that is a personal decision and not because of poverty. con controversial, but is it true we've got it all coming your way. but before we get into it, let's grab the news with polly middlehurst . middlehurst. >> michelle, thank you. well, good evening to you. within the last hour, we've learned the chair of the privilege committee, tory mp sir bernard jenkin, could be facing a police

investigation into a lockdown party at conservative party headquarters in the last few minutes, sir bernard has responded, putting out a statement saying it's not appropriate to comment on a continuing police investigation. well, the met will be reopening their look at the jingle and mingle lockdown party at conservative party hq, which we understand took place on the 8th of december 2020. the tory mp, sir bernard jenkin, is said to have been there to covid regulations potentially being broken during that party, that a developing story will bring more to you as we get it. well the prime minister has been refusing to comment today on when he will fulfil his promise to stop small boat crossings across the engush boat crossings across the english channel. but he's denied the plan is on hold amid the legal obstacles stopping the government's plan to process migrants in rwanda being questioned today by senior mps. rishi sunak denied there is no plan b if the supreme court does

not overturn the ruling, which currently blocks the removal of migrants to rwanda . he says migrants to rwanda. he says ministers will challenge the appeal court ruling confidently and vigorously . well, it is away and vigorously. well, it is away from politics today. junior doctors have voted within the last hour and a half to extend their strike action until at least january 2024. member of the hospital consultants and specialists association in england decided to extend their strike action by another six months , with 96.5% votes in months, with 96.5% votes in favour of that. the ballot result comes as junior doctors prepare to walk out for five days in july. they're going to be taking industrial action between the 13th and 18th of this month . the prime minister this month. the prime minister says, though, the strikes are making nhs waiting lists longer, already had half a million peoples care be impacted by industrial action and i don't think that's right. >> i think everyone can see the economic context that we're in and the necessity for the

government to make responsible decisions . decisions. >> teachers unions are calling on the government to release recommendation actions on pay made by an independent body, an eu members in england are staging fresh strikes tomorrow and then again on friday in their ongoing dispute over pay all for education. unions rejected the government's latest offer of £1,000, lump sum and a 4.5% pay rise . now thames water 4.5% pay rise. now thames water has been fined £33 million 4.5% pay rise. now thames water has been fined £3.3 million for polluting two rivers back in 27. teen the company pleaded guilty, admitting to discharging millions of litres of undiluted sewage into the gatwick stream in sussex and the river mole in surrey . over the course of 6.5 surrey. over the course of 6.5 hours. the incident killed more than 1400 fish. the judge said she believed thames water had also demonstrated a deliberate attempt to mislead the environment agency over the

incident . the average rate for a incident. the average rate for a five year fixed rate mortgage deal has now moved above 6. the number of mortgage deals on the market has also dropped, driving up costs for home buyers and home owners . and it comes as the home owners. and it comes as the uk's four major banks have been summoned to a meeting with the financial watchdog over allegations of profiteering with savings rates lagging behind the cost of mortgages by around 4, shadow chief secretary to the treasury pat mcfadden, says families are struggling to meet their costs . now the family of families are struggling to meet their costs. now the family of a mother and two children who died in a fire that ripped through a flat in nottingham say they're relieved the killer has been brought to justice. jamie barrow has been found guilty of murdering his neighbour fatumata haidara and her two young daughters last year the court heard he poured petrol through their letterbox before setting it alight and watching the fire take hold . prosecutors said take hold. prosecutors said barrow had agreed science over

rubbish being left in an alleyway . technology news now alleyway. technology news now and meta, the company that owns facebook, is launching a new app to rival twitter. it's called threads and is described as a text based conversation app that will also be linked to instagram . it appears to closely resemble its main competitor, twitter , its main competitor, twitter, andifs its main competitor, twitter, and it's the latest chapter in the rivalry between facebook boss mark zuckerberg and elon musk, who bought twitter at the end of last year. twitter recently announced unverified users. in other words, those who don't pay a subscription will be limited to viewing 600 posts a day . now his limited to viewing 600 posts a day. now his majesty the king and his queen wished the nhs a happy 75th birthday today. their majesties visiting the royal infirmary at edinburgh to celebrate the anniversary . they celebrate the anniversary. they met patients and staff and unveiled a specially commissioned plaque to mark the occasion . her majesty the queen occasion. her majesty the queen joked that the nhs shared the

same birthday as her. as they both celebrate their birthdays in july . you're up to date on tv in july. you're up to date on tv onune in july. you're up to date on tv online dab+ radio and the tune in app. you're with gb news, the people's . people's. channel >> thanks for that, polly . i >> thanks for that, polly. i found that story that you just did fascinating about the social media network. another one i feel like brenda in bristol, do you remember her? why do we need yet another social media platform? happened just platform? what happened to just getting out and about and talking people in the real talking to people in the real world? what want to world? that's what i want to know. i'm just getting know. maybe i'm just getting old anyway. in the anyway. talk to people in the real we will do real world. we will do right through till 7:00 tonight because alongside me, the pr consultant deane and the consultant alex deane and the journalist and author ella whelan keep me company. good evening both. good evening to evening to both. good evening to you. the drill, you. and you know the drill, don't you? it's not just about us three. here it very much us three. here it is very much about guys at home. is

about you guys at home. what is on mind tonight ? you can on your mind tonight? you can get in touch usual ways. get in touch all the usual ways. vaiews@gbnews.com the email. get in touch all the usual ways. gbyou s@gbnews.com the email. get in touch all the usual ways. gbyou can bnews.com the email. get in touch all the usual ways. gbyou can tweet.com the email. get in touch all the usual ways. gbyou can tweet me1 the email. get in touch all the usual ways. gbyou can tweet me at the email. get in touch all the usual ways. gbyou can tweet me at gbe email. get in touch all the usual ways. gbyou can tweet me at gb news. l. or you can tweet me at gb news. got it all going on tonight rishi sunak. i want to talk to you about the suggestion that's been made controversial . get been made controversial. get this johnny mercer, he's saying that people are using food banks not because they're so they can't afford loaf bread. can't afford a loaf of bread. everyone, he reckons it's because people are budgeting that way. basically, that is why they're heading that way. he's got in a bit of trouble for that, i can tell you. but what is he simply speaking the truth? your thoughts on all of that. but everybody flies, but get this, everybody flies, doesn't time when you're doesn't it? time when you're having rishi knack. having fun? rishi sunak knack. he been for pm six he has been our for pm six months. do you remember his five pledges that he made to us? i could have tested you, but you know it's my top story, so know what? it's my top story, so i'm going get straight in and i'm going to get straight in and i'm going to get straight in and i'm going to assume that you all know them. but shall we recap and how he is doing? and look at how he is doing? inflation is one inflation of course, that is one of key tasks. he said he of his key tasks. he said he wanted to half it. well, of

course, it remains at 8.7. so he's not really doing well on that, is he? we've just avoided a recession. a technical recession in june. we've got national debt under % above gdp , national debt under% above gdp, a record high, of course, since 1961. on and on we go . so he's 1961. on and on we go. so he's not doing too well in terms of the two and three, the economy growth and the debt falling . and growth and the debt falling. and when it comes to cutting nhs waiting lists, well, i've got to say, i don't really think he's doing that great on that either . and stopping the small boats do not make me laugh , everybody. do not make me laugh, everybody. well nearly 11,000 crossings so far this year, one of the busiest in june of since well, actually i think since records began. actually i think since records began . in goodness gracious me, began. in goodness gracious me, alex, i've got to say, when i look at those five points, there and i reflect reflect briefly on how he's doing, i've got to say , for me, it is a very poor show. i'd say one out of ten,

i'd say work in progress. >> and of course, he's going to be inviting the electorate to judge him at the time of the next election. not now, but i it's very hard to look at where things stand say that things stand and say that everything rosy, isn't it? everything is rosy, isn't it? you will recall when these five pledges were announced that they were some people were treated by some people in the the government the media as if the government had targets that were had chosen targets that were deliberately to so deliberately easy to meet, so that the they that by the time they came about, government about, the government would be able to five of them able to say to all five of them be done. as we are seeing, it's not going. everything in the prime minister's would prime minister's way, i would say though, right to say this though, you're right to say this though, you're right to say have avoided say that we have avoided recession narrowly we of recession narrowly. we most of our neighbours recession our neighbours are in recession , including the , including many of the significant euro nations . significant euro nations. inflation is higher than the government would want, but higher still in a number of our competitor markets . the debt one competitor markets. the debt one is within government's control and has been very sticky. but debtis and has been very sticky. but debt is higher still in some of our competitor markets. but all of that said. so i think you can see some progress on those targets. the one that really matters. it's like a four plus one, one that really matters

one, the one that really matters certainly for the prime minister's vote is the boats. one the small boats is one stopping the small boats is basically for this basically the main test for this government. i would say that government. and i would say that if and they if they aced that and they failed on the other four, the government into government would still go into the election a positive the election in a positive position if the ace the position and if the ace the other four and failed on that one, go into the next one, they'd go into the next election poor election in a really poor position. actually, position. really. so actually, there's i think really there's one that i think really matters an outside manner. matters in an outside manner. >> if inflation was >> so you think if inflation was still running people still running rampant, people still running rampant, people still nhs still couldn't get into the nhs hospitals? but everyone worry not because the boats have stopped. people go , okay. >> i think that if they could show some progress on the other four now. but miles four as they are now. but miles from but had nailed the from complete but had nailed the boats government would boats one the government would be strong position. be in a strong position. >> you believe that home. >> do you believe that home. ella, thoughts? ella, your thoughts? >> know. think i think >> i don't know. i think i think the conservatives are trying to console themselves the idea console themselves with the idea that boats thing is that the small boats thing is going them at the on the going to save them at the on the doorstep or come election time. i don't think it's that simple . i don't think it's that simple. i don't think it's that simple. i think it's a big issue. i i do think it's a big issue. i think people about think people care about controlling borders . but to say, controlling borders. but to say, you know, think the

you know, i think the interesting thing is that of all these pledges have almost all of them bar the growth economy, one which is kind of tokenise stick, he had to have something like that in there. they're all quite negative of halving inflation cut bit of debt cut, a bit of the waiting times. stop the small boats. it's always it's all slightly less all making things slightly less terrible and there's not a lot of positive, ambitious dynamism in there. that's why people took the mick out of him at the start. it reminds me of, was it ed miliband's tablet gravestone thing? it's, you know, this kind of put it on a stone of he hasn't put it on a stone yet. well, there's a kind of dread to it all. and i think that this is the problem with rishi and i mean, rishi sunak is that and i mean, obviously the conservative government, particular government, but in particular him, he's sold himself him, is that he's sold himself as you know, post boris post, liz truss , as a kind of calm, liz truss, as a kind of calm, collected technocrat, someone who could sensible and get the job done and keep things on an even keel . that's not what we even keel. that's not what we need at the moment. i'm not saying we need saying that we need another johnson , know, kind of mad johnson, you know, kind of mad chaos, you need some kind of

chaos, but you need some kind of ambitious , large scale plan for ambitious, large scale plan for change. none of these five pledges came close to that. and the fact that hasn't even the fact that he hasn't even managed come anywhere near managed to come anywhere near any them, i think just proves any of them, i think just proves the point that we all knew from the point that we all knew from the this guy not the start that this guy is not someone to change someone who's going to change the change the world. someone who's going to change the not change the world. someone who's going to change the not even 1ange the world. someone who's going to change the not even going the world. someone who's going to change the not even going toe world. someone who's going to change the not even going toe w0|know, he's not even going to you know, he probably have to change his pledges, but they all do that. >> no chance of >> well, there's no chance of the changed. the the pledges get changed. the government's them government's repeated them ad infinitum. the pledges with infinitum. the pledges are with the until the the prime minister until the next i suppose the next election. i suppose the point is, any point to make is, like any undertaking that somebody is making , there isn't an immediate making, there isn't an immediate delivery task. you've got to judge it at the end, not in the middle. >> is that fair, do you think? are you willing to wait until the end? because i don't know about you at home. right. i was reminiscing when my reminiscing about this when my mum weekend. i told you mum at the weekend. i told you this yesterday. we saying this yesterday. we were saying at weekend we cannot at the weekend we cannot remember this country remember life in this country being you cannot being as bad as this. you cannot get to see a doctor. you get in to see a doctor. you cannot get into your hospital. you cannot get a reaction when you ring the in an you ring the police in an emergency often than not,

emergency more often than not, people's absolutely emergency more often than not, people's people absolutely emergency more often than not, people's people are absolutely emergency more often than not, people's people are panickedy squeezed. people are panicked about retaining about their houses, retaining their mortgages that they've got, getting hold of a new got, or getting hold of a new one. health through the one. mental health through the roof. the country is in an absolute mess from absolute mess and from a non—technical standpoint , don't. non—technical standpoint, don't. i remember ever this i can't remember ever being this bad . bad. >> e'- e i don't want to >> yeah, well, i don't want to sound like labour politician sound like a labour politician here, know, it's true here, but you know, it's true that are basically the end that we are basically at the end of this. i mean, even conservative themselves, there's so many spilling out of so many rumours spilling out of westminster many tory westminster about how many tory mps saying are, we're mps are saying we are, we're going to this election. going to lose this election. you know, need a bit of know, we need we need a bit of time in opposition to sharpen ourselves up. it's a given. you know, the weekend know, stories across the weekend papers about people looking at this wall, looking at this red wall, mps looking at their stuff like that. their cvs and stuff like that. we at end of a long, we are at the end of a long, long period of time of conservative party being in power it has been an utter power and it has been an utter failure after failure. and, you know , michelle has just given know, michelle has just given a long list of all the problems we're facing in this country. i'm not i don't know who will come along and fix them, but it certainly isn't going to be rishi sunak. >> that narrative you've

>> so that narrative that you've just concede there is just set out, i concede there is a lot of that chatter around westminster. that's true. but there a lot that there was equally a lot of that chatter westminster chatter around westminster in 1991 failed back 1991 following the failed back to john major's to basics campaign, john major's government regarded as government was regarded as finished. everything was going to a halt. kinnock to come to a halt. neil kinnock was become our prime was going to become our prime minister come 1992. the people who had said all that with great confidence looked rather silly and conservative party had and the conservative party had pulled of the bag. pulled things out of the bag. now i'm not saying will now i'm not saying that will happen. saying that the happen. i'm saying that the people say definitely people who say it's definitely not going to happen are really speaking from position that is speaking from a position that is very me. and when you very unclear to me. and when you rely on the fact that there's plenty of discontent in and around westminster and individual one thing individual mps may say one thing or that's of or another, that's no proof of anything. in the end, the electorate will decide things based what see when they based on what they see when they come vote. not now, but when come to vote. not now, but when the poll is well. >> one of the narratives that gets often around gets discussed often is around foodbanks foodbanks foodbanks and how many foodbanks there be popping there seem to be popping up absolutely these absolutely everywhere these days, don't they? johnny mercer veterans in trouble. veterans guy. he is in trouble. veterans minister i should say, to him his correct and to give him his correct and proper title. basically

proper title. he's basically talking people that use talking about people that use foodbanks. he's saying that actually not because actually often it's not because people literally cannot afford a potato or a bag of crisps or a loaf of bread. he reckons it's more down to a kind of budgeting thing, personal choice. what do you make to that? ella well, you know, it's true that some people use foodbanks as a kind of a top up. >> you don't have to be literally scrapping the literally scrapping on the ground crusts bread . ground for crusts of bread. there are people who supplement their to supplement their who need to supplement their who need to supplement their what they're bringing home to eat on the basis of that. so perhaps he has something of, i don't know the particular case of the raf. there's this rumour that, well, there's news that people are accessing services there. wanted to read there. but i just wanted to read out something that he's quoted in guardian saying and in the guardian as saying and it's, think encapsulate the it's, i think encapsulate the whole politicians, whole way in which politicians, particularly conservative particularly in the conservative party, are approaching the issue of low standards living of low standards of living thing, he said. i don't want to see anyone using foodbanks. of course i don't. but we're in an extremely difficult time around the cost of living. he's talking about crisis , like

about an economic crisis, like it's the weather, like it's something that he has no control of, that his party has no control it's not their control of. it's not their fault. it's nothing to do with us. all just to us. and we've all just got to kind tighten up, tighten our kind of tighten up, tighten our belts weather storm. and belts and weather the storm. and that's pointless. obviously not true. also pretty insulting true. it's also pretty insulting that, you know, politicians seem to just be pointing over their shoulder saying, not my shoulder saying, it's not my fault. something to fault. it's something to something over there. something going on over there. so think he's talking rubbish. so i think he's talking rubbish. >> anyone can >> i don't think anyone can pretend politicians pretend that politicians generally quite often get the tone wrong on things food tone wrong on things like food banks. true. in banks. that's true. but in specifically johnny mercer's case think people case on this, i think people should we should be should be fair. we should be fair. was talking fair. he was talking specifically about serving military personnel and whether they were using food banks and his people are his position. people are entitled to disagree it, entitled to disagree with it, but position was that all but his position was that all serving military personnel are paid well enough if they paid well enough that if they are banks, that is are using food banks, that is a matter poor matter of choice and poor budgeting rather than necessity. that was the position that he was giving them. i think i do. but that was the position that he setting and we ought he was setting out and we ought to wasn't talking about

to be. he wasn't talking about society and i don't society generally. and i don't we it if we shouldn't just say it as if he's just being faire or he's just being laissez faire or blase about people using food banks. >> he's specific about military, but have made but other tory mps have made more statements, haven't more broader statements, haven't they, about food bank usage, where has a more broad where it has been a more broad brush approach. >> i think quite >> and they're i think quite often people a remarkable often people have a remarkable tin wouldn't choose to tin ear and i wouldn't choose to say sorts things that say the sorts of things that some of parliament say. some members of parliament say. and may banks and people may use food banks for sorts of reasons. but for all sorts of reasons. but when to mercer when it comes to the mercer example, what we were discussing, we shouldn't just discussing, we shouldn't just discuss he was talking discuss it as if he was talking about population he about population at large. he was people was talking about those people employed state to defend was talking about those people em|country. state to defend was talking about those people em|country. and state to defend was talking about those people em|country. and he ate to defend was talking about those people em|country. and he was) defend was talking about those people em|country. and he was making our country. and he was making i don't know why he's rowing back from it because actually it seems completely defensible seems a completely defensible position, intended, position, no pun intended, defensible view, defensible position, in my view, which serving which is that all of our serving military are paid well military personnel are paid well enough not to have to use food banks. well, the reason and if that's you certainly that's not true, you certainly want it to be right. >> the is rowing back on >> the reason is rowing back on that will be partially rowing back is because you dare back on that is because you dare to what would say is to speak. what i would say is bafic to speak. what i would say is basic common sense this basic common sense in this country because it's you might basic common sense in this couh'm because it's you might basic common sense in this couh'm heartlesst's you might basic common sense in this couh'm heartless or you might basic common sense in this couh'm heartless or cruelnight say i'm heartless or cruel or whatever. know there

whatever. and i know that there are segment society that are a segment of society that are a segment of society that are struggling right now. i know that got that i get it. we've got a welfare as well. it really welfare state as well. it really helps at the helps support people at the various lowest, very lowest income levels or income income levels or no income levels if you levels at all. but but if you say that's only got say to someone that's only got £50 disposable income £50, £50 disposable income or £50, disposable income or whatever, right, this. right, you've got to get this. you've that, you've you've got to get that, you've got get this. but if you got to get this. but if you want, spending want, instead of spending your youn want, instead of spending your your, on food, you want, instead of spending your yomget on food, you want, instead of spending your yomget all on food, you want, instead of spending your yomget all your on food, you want, instead of spending your yomget all your food food, you want, instead of spending your yomget all your food free i, you want, instead of spending your yomget all your food free from can get all your food free from over there and you can spend your whatever. then of your ten or on whatever. then of course, you're going to go get your free from there. your food free from over there. why wouldn't you? >> and wouldn't >> you know, and i wouldn't blame think, you know, blame people. i think, you know, it's miserable it's a particularly miserable kind of existence where you don't spare cash don't have any spare cash to i don't have any spare cash to i don't know, your kid a new don't know, buy your kid a new toy get yourself a new jumper toy or get yourself a new jumper or of these things. think or any of these things. i think probably stands probably that's what stands out to this. to me in all of this. i mean, i don't know, can banks don't know, can food banks really be set up in places where all the service and women all the service men and women are? know what blowing are? i don't know what blowing it mean, there it on going out. i mean, there must kind of issue going it on going out. i mean, there mlhere. kind of issue going on here. >> but i remember a story about the raf and what people were saying. was little while saying. this was a little while ago. saying they ago. they were saying they were quoting barracks and

quoting a specific barracks and they that there was they were saying that there was this that had been set this food bank that had been set up personnel to up by the military personnel to support community, up by the military personnel to support now community, up by the military personnel to support now beingnmunity, up by the military personnel to support now being usedity, up by the military personnel to support now being used by the which was now being used by the military personnel themselves. there's about there's a big outrage about it. but actually, sat there, but then actually, i sat there, thought, really make but then actually, i sat there, thougof, really make but then actually, i sat there, thougof sense really make but then actually, i sat there, thougof sense this really make but then actually, i sat there, thougof sense this because �*nake but then actually, i sat there, thougof sense this because ifake a lot of sense this because if you're base, you've got you're on this base, you've got your housing costs largely taken care of. you i imagine care of. you know, i imagine you've got subsidised food and all it. so yes, all the rest of it. so yes, maybe are a few people maybe there are a few people have got themselves or have got themselves into debt or trouble whatever that need trouble or whatever that need to use facility or choose to use that facility or choose to use that facility or choose to use whatever. use that facility or whatever. but it's not but to your point, it's not symptomatic a whole symptomatic then of a whole issue, it's just going issue, but it's i was just going to this is this the to say that this is this is the level which having level at which we're having a conversation about people's standard of living, you standard of living, that, you know, they're standard of living, that, you know, food they're standard of living, that, you know, food banks. they're standard of living, that, you knothat food banks. they're standard of living, that, you knothat fojust anks. they're standard of living, that, you knothat fojust it'ss. they're standard of living, that, you knothat fojust it's suchzy're standard of living, that, you knothat fojust it's such small >> that is just it's such small fry. it's so depressing. we should be having a discussion about which we're about the economy in which we're aiming saying people aiming higher and saying people should aiming higher and saying people showell, maurice, one of my >> well, maurice, one of my viewers, and viewers, he's written in and said, can you said, michel, please, can you ask panel a simple ask your panel a simple question? i'm going to ask question? so i'm going to ask you question, i'm going question? so i'm going to ask you to question, i'm going question? so i'm going to ask you to the stion, i'm going question? so i'm going to ask you to the break. i'm going question? so i'm going to ask you to the break. ready| going question? so i'm going to ask you to the break. ready for»ing to go to the break. ready for maurice's question? you can answer question well at answer this question as well at home want. maurice is home if you want. maurice is asking you define poverty

asking how do you define poverty ? yes, that is the question . ? yes, that is the question. ponder it and i'll see you

>> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> hello there. this is dewbs& co. >> hello there. this is dewbs& c0. with >> hello there. this is dewbs& co. with me, michelle dewberry till 7:00 tonight alongside me , till 7:00 tonight alongside me, consultant alex dean and the journalist and author ella whelan morris got involved. he was asking both of you what is the definition of your definition of poverty? how would you define it? >> there are two ways of defining poverty. the first is absolute people not absolute poverty. people not having not having having enough to eat, not having enough warm, enough to keep themselves warm, not a place to stay. not having a place to stay. that's a definition that is objective , and it's one with objective, and it's one with which i agree. the second definition of poverty is so called relative poverty, which is people who are below the 60% of the median income in society at any given time. the left prefers the latter because , prefers the latter because, first of all, it means that there always big part there will always be a big part of always in of society, which is always in poverty, matter how well we poverty, no matter how well we do it propels

do as a society. and it propels a narrative of inequality. indeed, fuels, a indeed, it rocket fuels, a narrative of inequality , because narrative of inequality, because if we do well as a society and high earners do extremely well and pay more taxes as a result, we have more money as a country, then that group of people below 60% income may 60% of the median income may grow. the former, grow. so i prefer the former, which group of people very which is a group of people very small society and done small in society and we've done incredibly who are incredibly well on it, who are incredibly well on it, who are in poverty , who we in absolute poverty, who we should help should definitely seek to help the prefer this narrative the left prefer this narrative of those below 60% of median income, will be income, which will always be with never fixed, and with us, can never be fixed, and no well we do no matter how well we do as a society, will always prop up their arguments. >> that you, maurice, >> well, that told you, maurice, ella , how would you answer that? ella, how would you answer that? >> know maybe. >> i don't know. maybe. i think that's cynical , alex, that's a bit cynical, alex, about the left , but i think it's about the left, but i think it's pretty simply it's that people poverty is defined by people who can't manage a basic standard of living and i think that our understanding of what a basic standard of living has to change. i've just actually, change. i've just been actually, i eavesdropping on a i was just eavesdropping on a different the program, different part of the program, talking about cashless society in wouldn't that in which you wouldn't say that it would be poverty it would. you would be poverty

stricken have stricken if you didn't have a smartphone these it was smartphone these days. it was a luxury item. but as society changes to a situation in which to do anything basic from park to do anything basic from park to buy your shopping with apple pay and things like that , having pay and things like that, having a phone is an essential, pay and things like that, having a phone is an essential , then a phone is an essential, then i think you have to shift the terms of the frame . terms of the frame. >> no, i think ella has a point about that because people who don't use online services very often don't receive discounts that people who do use those services get. so ironically, the people who are worst off don't get offered the discounts that would benefit them as a proportion of income the most. there a real there. there is a real point there. yeah >> en- en— e— yeah >> do you make to that? 9 do you make to that? is >> what do you make to that? is a smartphone essential? and do you those two you agree with those two definitions poverty ? maurice definitions of poverty? maurice i do suspect i mean , you tell me i do suspect i mean, you tell me if i'm wrong, but i think there'll be a lot of people there'll be a lot of people there at home. for example, saying, know, lot of saying, oh, you know, a lot of people, they'll go to a food bank, so i know y and z, bank, so i know x, y and z, they'll to a food bank, but they'll go to a food bank, but they'll go to a food bank, but they'll simultanea x, y and they'll simultanea have x, y and z a, and c, and z and go to a, b and c, and perhaps is a mindset that's

perhaps that is a mindset that's coming my inbox. do coming through on my inbox. do you agree with that? is it harsh or that? or fair? your thoughts on that? let's we, poverty let's speak, shall we, poverty and cash, because i'll tell you, people really people that are not really struggling it of struggling right now. it is, of course, our sajid javid he's course, our mps sajid javid he's been speaking out about much been speaking out about how much they reminder, they get paid. as a reminder, it's about £86,000 and now sajid javid is basically said that figure needs to double, but he's got a plan. what he would do is he would halve the number of mps that you've got. so he would argue that that would be cost neutral . the point of what neutral. the whole point of what he's say is basically he's trying to say is basically if you get someone earning currently, say, £30,000 year, currently, say, £30,000 a year, that's going to get this monumental salary jump to £86,000, they're going feel £86,000, they're going to feel like lottery. like they've won the lottery. but arguing that those but he's arguing that those people not come with people might not come with the skills parliament needs. he skills that parliament needs. he reckons that if you go sniffing around the high earners and you attract them with a higher salary, parliament will be in a better place. do you agree? no >> no. alex pr, i mean, this seems like the most crazy statement to make at a time when

the conservatives are in need of all the public support they can get, you know, the public get, you know, annoy the public by saying that politicians should get more money, which is very good to very rarely ever a good line to take and freak out your own mps by suggesting that potentially half of them are going to be slashed under this new idea. but on the issue itself, i don't think that politicians need very much more money. i also think this is a completely technocratic approach to solving the issue of politics and the issue of politics is not a dearth of high earners with, i don't know, business skills or something like that. as important is, it's important as that is, it's a lack of politics with a capital p, it's a ideas, which p, it's a lack of ideas, which it seems to me someone on 30, he's , you know, basically saying he's, you know, basically saying anyone between 30,000 and 80,000 isn't going to have the skill set to be able to do well in to do what parliament needs. he says , well, i mean , you know, says, well, i mean, you know, i'm not i don't earn a huge amount. i'd say i'd probably do amount. i'd say i'd probably do a bit better of a job than a lot of the people in there. and that's not just me blowing smoke

up backside. i think up my own backside. i think there lots people with there are lots of people with ideas sense of how ideas with a sense of how to kind change politics kind of change politics rather than change makeup of than just change the makeup of politicians. it politicians. and i think it tells you something about the way this current way in which this current government is approaching the cnses government is approaching the crises have is that crises that we have is that everything is to do with tweaking issues tweaking technocratic issues rather than wholesale change. >> you've certainly got a point about the inwardness of many politicians let's be politicians views, but let's be clear. is a politician clear. this is a politician who's about to an ex who's about to become an ex politician. he feels free to say this because he's not going to run at next election. run again at the next election. and suddenly, having and that's why suddenly, having been quite careful and measured in for years, been quite careful and measured in former for years, been quite careful and measured in former chancellor for years, been quite careful and measured in former chancellor pow,ears, been quite careful and measured in former chancellor pow, pow, our former chancellor pow, pow, pow. i think should cut half pow. i think we should cut half of think they should of the mps. i think they should be he's just, be paid double. like he's just, you at last. i can you know, free at last. i can say what i like. and this is the kind thing that motivates kind of thing that motivates him. very him. but i look very unfashionable. got unfashionable. i think he's got a look at our a point. if you look at our international we international competitors, we significantly underpay our members of parliament. it's not a ella's a popular position. ella's right. doesn't win you any plaudits , but plaudits with anyone, but i regard as i also think regard it as true. i also think there's quite there's something quite interesting cuts interesting here that cuts across lines. our across party lines. our political class in westminster looks increasingly like real

horse racing enthusiasts. the very wealthy and the really quite poor , the very wealthy, quite poor, the very wealthy, because they don't need the money that you get from being an mp the relatively badly off mp and the relatively badly off because for them it's a pay rise and you missing everyone and you missing almost everyone in and we're in the middle and we're hollowing out politics when we do headmaster would do that. when a headmaster would take cut to go and be take a big pay cut to go and be an mp, that's when you realise actually we've got this a bit wrong. >> p- p" p“ >> two things jump out to me in what he was saying. firstly, his assumption if someone's assumption that if someone's earning grand then earning 30 grand and then someone's earning, i don't know, a hundred grand already that somehow 100 grand person somehow this 100 grand person is more talented and all the rest of it than the 30 grand person, because i worked because i have worked in business and i've come across a variety people, variety of different people, management and the management level and all the rest of it, and they are absolute numpties. and at absolute numpties. and i look at them how on god's them and i think, how on god's green you to that green earth have you got to that position earning salary position of earning this salary and much about and you don't have much about you? would on you? so i would push back on that notion. but also i think and your in pr, i think that there's very people that there's very few people that have about them have got something about them that comfortably go into

that would comfortably go into politics in this day and age, because most people they've had a little bit of a past. you know, they've kind of been here and that's the kind and done there. that's the kind of would in of people that i would want in politics. you've there, politics. you've been there, you've done this, you've done this. betide you the this. but woe betide you if the media hold of any of that, media gets hold of any of that, they out of office. >> and office. » and >> and you've been on let's say you've the media for you've been in the media for some time. there's no doubt some clip something clip of you saying something that across badly out that will come across badly out of after you've of context a decade after you've said that's said it. i'm sure that that's the case. what's the flip the case. but what's the flip side? what we get black side? what we get is black automata who've nothing but automata who've done nothing but toe preferably toe a party line, preferably whilst party on whilst working for that party on their up to becoming mp . their way up to becoming an mp. and the and basically you get the politicians deserve . and politicians you deserve. and that's of system that's the kind of system we're increasingly encouraging. that's the kind of system we're increasingl'gettingraging. that's the kind of system we're increasingl'getting the1g. that's the kind of system we're increasingl'getting the people we >> are we getting the people we deserve? do reckon it's best deserve? do you reckon it's best of bunch? of the bunch? >> certainly until there >> well, certainly until there is i don't know, there's how is a i don't know, there's how many new subsets of the conservatives are there at the moment, own . yeah. moment, having their own. yeah. >> there's day of the day >> there's one day of the day aren't >> there's one day of the day areiyeah. but until there is >> yeah. but until there is a new don't know what new party of i don't know what kind with i know what kind with, i don't know what sort ideas i'm, you know, sort of ideas i'm, you know, i could probably guess at what i would put forward, but not

would put forward, but i'm not in of doing that. in the business of doing that. someone puts some kind someone puts forward some kind of i think the of new ideas. then i think the people follow or, you people will follow or, you know, it's kind of an amalgam it's a it's a kind of an amalgam situation need some situation in which you need some people sense of an people with some sense of an ideology. think part the ideology. i think part of the problem is okay, david's on problem this is okay, david's on his out. having bit his way out. he's having a bit of it. but this is the of fun with it. but this is the kind of technocratic approach that of our politicians that so many of our politicians and europe and in and actually in europe and in other which other countries are, too, which is to settle all is the way to settle all political problems , is to do political problems, is to do this kind of tweaking of the system of the way things work, rather than actually looking at what it is about politics that we want to change what it is about people's lives. we want to change. >> i think there's some truth in that. but there's another point to be made in which that to be made in it, which is that and crosses party lines. and it crosses party lines. there unspoken in there was an unspoken truth in westminster it agreed, westminster that it was agreed, basically agreed between the parties was bad to raise parties that it was bad to raise mps salaries because it looked bad for them all round. so what they would do as a result is that they would have a generous approach and then approach to expenses and then over having done over time those mps, having done what they thought was the right

thing to do, they were roundly criticised. we had the expenses scandal and a whole of scandal and a whole shedload of them went out. now it's wrong to abuse expenses of course, and it was right that the system, especially with the more egregious rooted out egregious examples, rooted out those so . but the those who had done so. but the quid quo should been quid pro quo should have been that honestly that. we should have honestly said society, okay, we've said as a society, okay, we've stopped this abuse of stopped all this abuse of expenses. right thing to do expenses. the right thing to do is salaries but of is put mps salaries up. but of course it was worst course it was the very worst time to have that conversation because we've just been through the expenses scandal. >> you happen to have >> you didn't happen to have those as well, in those conversations as well, in my some chops my opinion. take some chops because you know that because the media, you know that if whenever you if you come out, whenever you say it's never going say it's never it's never going to land. well, is whenever to land. well, is it whenever you come out say, right, an you come out and say, right, an mp x, y, z, should mp deserves x, y, z, or should we an z, always we get an x, y, z, you'll always receive i think receive pushback. and i think this of the challenges this is one of the challenges that need to better at, that mps need to be better at, which pushing against which is pushing back against some media narratives. some of the media narratives. i would would to would i would like to see politicians bolder when politicians be more bolder when they go on these international conferences you get conferences and you get journalists saying, oh, can i just so—and—so just ask you about so—and—so party? well, no, actually, no, you talk you can't. i mean, let's talk about whatever, but about ukraine or whatever, but they pander to

they don't. they pander to the media. know shouldn't media. and i know i shouldn't say sit in the say that because i sit in the media, but i do feel that, yeah, maybe you've got a point there. >> mean, moment >> but i mean, at the moment when politicians both the when politicians from both the conservative labour conservative and the labour party to striking party are talking to striking workers saying, you workers and saying, no, you cannot a rise, then cannot have a pay rise, then it's illegitimate for to it's illegitimate for them to ask one themselves. an ask for one themselves. in an economy booming , i'd economy that was booming, i'd have problem adding a zero have no problem adding a zero onto their paycheque. whatever have no problem adding a zero onto that paycheque. whatever have no problem adding a zero onto that paychiaree. whatever have no problem adding a zero onto that paychiare gettingever have no problem adding a zero onto that paychiare getting on' you lot at home are getting on to the into the gist of this, aren't you? >> when i say not just >> when i say it's not just about is about you. about us, it is about you. you're very you're taking this very literally. i like it. ian literally. and i like it. ian says, question says, i've got another question for they go into for your panel as they go into the break. i like what you're doing there. please, you doing there. ian please, can you ask their view on ask your panel their view on what qualifications do you think should required to be an mp? should be required to be an mp? interesting question there. these guys will answer that after break. you can tell me after the break. you can tell me your on as well. your thoughts on that as well. but want ask, are but i also want to ask, why are so companies obsessed with so many companies obsessed with pandenng so many companies obsessed with pandering stonewall ? you tell pandering to stonewall? you tell me

real world. join me at 7:00 on gb news. choose britain's news .

channel >> hello there, i am michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, we've got alex dean, the pr consultant and the journalist and author ella whelan . it's not just about us. whelan. it's not just about us. it is about you . you're getting it is about you. you're getting into the swing of it, and i like it. ian he's in cyprus at the moment and he's asking ask the panel what feel should be panel what they feel should be qualifications to be an mp. alex there should no formal there should be no formal qualifications for being a member parliament other than member of parliament other than being electorate i >> -- >> if -- >>if| >> if i think about the, you know , the electorate tells you know, the electorate tells you something they elect something when they elect people. if i think the extremes in northern ireland of people who community, but who come from the community, but had in sectarian had a background in sectarian violence it the world violence, it told the world something about what was happening in their community something about what was happeand] in their community something about what was happeand the their community something about what was happeand the notion)mmunity something about what was happeand the notion thatjnity something about what was happeand the notion that the! there and the notion that the state concoct state should concoct a qualification that means you can't the birds. can't get in is for the birds. for but go further. in the for me, but i go further. in the mid 20th century across all of three of the historically dominant parties , some 18% of dominant parties, some 18% of people's backgrounds was manual laboun people's backgrounds was manual labour. today, in parliament it is zero. do we think we've got a better parliament today as a result? i do not. equally 1980s

background of people who are mps. background of people who are mp5. 3% background of people who are mps. 3% used to work for their party before they got elected. today it's ten times that 30. we think it's better because people used to be spads and i used to be spads and aides. i don't. the idea that people don't. so the idea that people should a formal should have a formal qualification going into qualification for going into parliament is completely wrong. >> pm wwii wm- >> for the bad suella i agree. >> for the bad suella i agree. >> think that that anything >> i think that that anything that kind of hemmed in what people previous need to have proved removes all the spontaneity and the flexibility motty in politics. but also alex has a point, which is that there is a lot of talk about whether or not we need quotas or quotas for women , even quotas for sort for women, even quotas for sort of working class people. there is a lot people in labour is a lot of people in labour often like to say we need more working class in working class people in politics, very politics, which is a very instrumental approach. know instrumental approach. you know , point i made , like i say, the point i made before , the politics has to come before, the politics has to come first the people will first and the people will follow. there has to be some big ideas. any of ideas. so any kind of instrumental technocratic approach of issues instrumental technocratic apalways of issues instrumental technocratic apalways going of issues instrumental technocratic apalways going to of issues instrumental technocratic apalways going to fail. of issues is always going to fail. >> there go. you didn't >> there you go. and you didn't tell answer to what tell me your answer as to what you needed you thought they needed qualified location was. get in

touch and let me know i'm interested your view also as interested in your view also as well mps. i find it well as not just mps. i find it quite interesting who gets appointed to what ministerial roles you find someone getting. i don't know. minister for transport. look at them. transport. you look at them. he's anything to do he's never done anything to do with in all of with transport in all of his life i think, that's life and i think, well, that's a particular niche set. so particular niche skill set. so surely might a little surely you might have a little bit background it or bit of a background in it or maybe and also what about maybe not. and also what about qualifications of people like special find special advisers? i always find that little weird. these that a little bit weird. these special they seem to special advisers, they seem to be about 12. i don't really know where from. and if you be about 12. i don't really know wheme, from. and if you be about 12. i don't really know whe me, that from. and if you be about 12. i don't really know wheme, that seems�*m. and if you be about 12. i don't really know whe me, that seems to and if you be about 12. i don't really know whe me, that seems to be d if you be about 12. i don't really know whe me, that seems to be a if you be about 12. i don't really know wheme, that seems to be a veryu ask me, that seems to be a very closed as well. that one closed shop as well. that is one perhaps for day. alex is perhaps for another day. alex is doing of breath. doing an intake of breath. he's about it. but about to crack into it. but i can you what i've got can tell you what i've got a topic i need to get off my chest before the end of the show, so i need stonewall i've need to move on. stonewall i've been story about the been seeing the story about the bank they're bank of england. they're basically any any basically saying that any any gender any person can become gender or any person can become pregnant. this it turns out, was a view that it included in its 2022 submission to be included in the list of 100 top employers as published by stonewall . i

as published by stonewall. i find this whole obsession with stonewall really odd . i feel stonewall really odd. i feel like it permeates so many aspects of society, whether it's education in schools, whether it's policies within the workplace and beyond. what is this obsession with stonewall about ? well, i mean, stonewall about? well, i mean, stonewall was historically and previously, you know , a serious organisation you know, a serious organisation that was set up for a particular political and civil rights purpose. >> that's right. and it's now become essentially a money making racket , become essentially a money making racket, you become essentially a money making racket , you know, the way making racket, you know, the way in which stonewall runs its kind of rankings , which corporations of rankings, which corporations and businesses and institutions and businesses and institutions and all kinds of organisations can sign up to is that they look through your i don't know, hr documents and they say this is too full of mum and dad and boy and girl and all these very, very evil terms go away and fix it and come back to us and we'll , we'll, you know, fund us and we'll you a of we'll give you a lot of training. we'll bring all your employees we'll lecture training. we'll bring all your empl(about we'll lecture training. we'll bring all your empl(about how we'll lecture training. we'll bring all your empl(about how youe'll lecture training. we'll bring all your empl(about how you need :ture training. we'll bring all your

empl(about how you need :tu be them about how you need to be gender everything. gender neutral, everything. and then us what then come back, show us what you've we'll give you've done and we'll give you a big gold and big gold star. and that basically is how stonewall functions moment. and functions at the moment. and there are other charities and organisations that similar organisations that do similar things sexism or things around race or sexism or things around race or sexism or things that. so it is not things like that. so it is not just utterly pointless , it's just utterly pointless, it's also promoting idea that a also promoting the idea that a particularly pernicious political view that you should call women and mothers birthing people , that you should conflate people, that you should conflate the idea that red rag to a bull, that that you should, you know , that that you should, you know, even toy around with the idea that sex isn't real or that it doesn't matter to society that thatis doesn't matter to society that that is simply being taken by the bank of england. and, you know, supposedly serious organisation seen as just akin to being nice, being fluffy, being pink washed. i think that's a real problem. it seems like, you know, they there can't be any serious adults left at the bank of england if they think that doing this kind of stuff makes any sense to your average person with a bank account . account. >> ella's prognosis of >> i think ella's prognosis of the grift involved , of the money

the grift involved, of the money making scheme, that's that's spot on. the pink wash thing is interesting because of course, to the point you were making which is accurate about there once been a real mission once having been a real mission at the heart of stonewall, you know, for lesbian people, for gays bisexuals. it was an gays and bisexuals. it was an organisation a break organisation that helped a break through with which through to equality with which the of the overwhelming majority of people this i think people in this country, i think , subscribe now. if they didn't in the past, they do now. but it's mission creep from an organisation that still needs to have something to be outraged about and still has to have something edge to something cutting edge to complain means you complain about. that means you then find more then go out and find the more outre of, case, outre examples of, in this case, gender ideology, which means you wind people of any wind up declaring people of any declared can can be declared gender can can be pregnant, which obviously not true . i mean, pregnant, which obviously not true. i mean, i'm a man i define as a man. can't become as a man. i can't become pregnant. there are. pregnant. well, there we are. and the other thing , and you know, the other thing, you'll get cancelled. well i. the first thing that gets cancelled isn't cancelled actually isn't me. it's it's the notion that it's women. it's the notion that there a thing as a woman there is such a thing as a woman and be able to and that we should be able to say an adult human female say that an adult human female is what a woman is. that's what gets first. just

gets cancelled first. i'm just i gets cancelled first. i'm just i get thereafter, get cancelled second thereafter, the really i'm just in the the women really i'm just in the way i talk about these way when i talk about these things, workplace things, this this workplace equality index, by the way, it's got nine different categories. >> variety of >> it goes through a variety of different things . one of them is different things. one of them is you've got show like you've got to show like monitoring, diversity, monitoring. respondents monitoring. so respondents are asked how sexual orientation, gender and trans identity data is analysed to understand the company's recruitment and pay grade and staff satisfaction . grade and staff satisfaction. well, i don't mean to be funny if went job interview if i went for a job interview and halfway through the person interviewing to me in a interviewing me said to me in a roundabout way, who do you sleep with? or women? i would find with? men or women? i would find that right weird, offensive and categorically wrong. but yet these companies are expected to correct it . collect that correct it. collect that information to be forward thinking policies and benefits. for example, an organisation has got to show how its trans inclusive policies stretch to things like private health insurance. and on it goes leadership ship. how do senior managers show understanding of

and support for lgbt plus inclusion an and how all managers make lgbt q plus inclusion part of their day to day jobs? i am not gay, right, but if i was and my manager our how are you going to include me at work? because of who i sleep with at home? >> yeah. well, there are cases of people essentially pushed to become outed because of these kind of things being asked to refer to their pronouns and things but i think things like that. but i think the important, the of the more important, the sort of broader that, you broader point it is that, you know, if it was the case that we had series of cases of had a series of cases of discrimination portion of an organisation saying you cannot, for example, in relation to the bank of england, a lot of it's about health care and policy. you access your you cannot have access to your or to our health care insurance because of the people you sleep with or because of the way you know, what name you call yourself . then there be an yourself. then there would be an issue that's not what's happening. what's happening is that they are pre—emptively saying, just gender saying, well, let's just gender neutral, everything so that neutral, wash everything so that no is offended, but no one is offended, but actually, as alex says, it is

offending people, it's offending women , it's deeply offending women, it's deeply offending people. you dare have the >> but if you dare have the audacity to call it out, woe betide you in some cases which is absolutely, categorically wrong . what is driving the wrong. what is driving the stonewall obsess nation in your mind? noble cause once upon a time. now, yes, but i'm talking about stonewall as it is today . about stonewall as it is today. your thoughts on that .

hello there. i am michelle dewberry keeping you company till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, pr consultant alex dean and the journalist and author ella wheeler. now five london councils are challenging sadiq khan's plan to expand ulez through greater london. now, you might be sitting there. you're not in london. you think, well, what's ulez and why care what's ulez and why do i care about that? i've got to say,

these things are popping all these things are popping up all over uk . i these things are popping up all over uk. i think you can over the uk. i think you can have a look at it now on your screen. they're absolutely everywhere. they might be called something different everywhere. they might be called someth town. different everywhere. they might be called someth town. so different everywhere. they might be called someth town. so i different everywhere. they might be called someth town. so i d know.t in your town. so i don't know. people call them or zs or people call them lez or zs or whatever it is, but the point of the matter is it's about charging people with older vehicles to get into town in ella. do you support this ? ella. do you support this? >> no. i think that ulez and ltns, that's low traffic neighbourhoods and all kinds of crackdowns on cars are a abomination. they result in basically a poor tax . and it basically a poor tax. and it means that people who aren't able to either afford well, people who aren't able to afford newer cars electric cars are newer cars or electric cars are run off the road. and i, you know, and stand in full solidarity with the boroughs of bexley, bromley, harrow and hillingdon , who are going to hillingdon, who are going to court to point out the obvious , court to point out the obvious, which is that i don't know if sadiq khan has ever been to bexley, but there is very little pubuc bexley, but there is very little public transport there. i mean, i don't want to malign bexley, but very little . i'm talking

but very little. i'm talking waiting hours for a bus kind of situation and by the way, the people that a lot of the people who live in those boroughs don't have a spare 30 grand for an electric car and they don't they certainly have any certainly don't have any charging points on every street . so what you are doing by introduce using a ulez, there is literally putting people under house arrest or or condemning them to carry the big shop on their back like a donkey from their back like a donkey from the supermarket to home. this is outrageous. >> i can see the case for an ultra low emission zone within a very tightly drawn small area of ultra central touristy london. what i cannot i mean, some people would disagree with that as well. congestion charges but even than that for for even smaller than that for for the the ulez piece. what i cannot see in hillingdon cannot see i was in hillingdon last week because of the by—election coming up and by—election that's coming up and in hillingdon it's a big borough and know you can get the and you know you can get the elizabeth line to bits of it, but you know, most people are dependent on their cars. you've got don't earn very got people who don't earn very much go the much money, people who go to the airport to shift work out of airport to do shift work out of it. cannot it

it. they simply cannot do it without cars . and that's without their cars. and that's why i think that steve tuckwell, the tory candidate there, is well placed and unbelievably the labour candidate has followed sadiq khan down the route of supporting ulez. well, i actually think in that part of the world it's for the birds. some people might it some people might like it somewhere certainly the somewhere, but certainly the speed expansion is what's speed of expansion is what's intolerable. it's the speed of taking who just taking it to people who just can't without their in can't live without their cars in the but it's the current set up. but it's also mean, thing about it, also i mean, the thing about it, my a tree surgeon and my husband's a tree surgeon and he goes and he works a lot in hackney he goes cuts hackney and he goes and cuts down private clients down people's private clients and loads them have ltn and loads of them have ltn posters in their window. >> they want to have no, no car zones. and he always says to them, well, do you expect me to carry this trunk on my back down the to where you the road to where it's, you know, is know, there is there is a complete obliviousness to who makes , the kind of makes cities run, the kind of people who provide services , people who provide services, whether it's plumbers, care workers, delivery drivers, postmen , all the people who rely postmen, all the people who rely when their groceries can't be delivered. exactly. yeah. when there car shop can't get

there are car shop can't get down because there's ltn or a down because there's an ltn or a ulez. these will ulez. maybe these people will come opposition . come out in opposition. >> and what fascinates me, by the is often they're the way, is often they're not trying outright these trying to ban outright these cars. they're saying is cars. so what they're saying is if pollute , then if you can pay to pollute, then that's fine. >> yeah, well, if you're that bothered about pollution, then you'd ban car, wouldn't you? you'd ban the car, wouldn't you? >> vintage are, >> and vintage cars, which are, you extremely to you know, extremely expensive to run, are fine. >> they a pass indeed. >> they get a free pass indeed. >> they get a free pass indeed. >> well make of that what you will, just been will, alan says you've just been talking and the talking about stonewall and the banks the it. banks and all the rest of it. why don't banks on looking why don't banks focus on looking after customers rather after their customers rather than with than fiddling around with stuff like hear, that , like this? hear, hear. to that, mark, says michel. many of us feel like we're losing the rights of freedom of speech. we are frightened to say what we really think . on so many issues really think. on so many issues . i hear you. but that's what we hear for gb news to give you guys a voice divided on the food bank topic . guys a voice divided on the food bank topic. i've got to say, frank says , michel, great show. frank says, michel, great show. love your two panellists. they're not interrupting or shouting over. ken says , can i shouting over. ken says, can i compliment ella and alex, the way they've conducted themselves

tonight at absolutely fantastic . well, there you go. always nice to get viewer feedback. thank you as well at home. ella, alex, come back again soon. always welcome here on dewbs & co always welcome here on dewbs& co .uk anywhere. patrick in for nigel next. i will be back at 7:00 tomorrow. i've got a lot to get off my chest already. i'll have a sleepless night thinking about it. you'll see what i mean. night . mean. at seven tomorrow night. >> hello there. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast . tuesday , in many . after a soggy tuesday, in many parts, does turn drier parts, it does turn drier eventually overnight. and it looks like wednesday will be a fine day for many. still some showers about, but actually a better chance of some drier and brighter interludes . we've seen brighter interludes. we've seen the wet weather arrive in the south through the day. that's slow to clear overnight . and slow to clear overnight. and with the rain across central and southeastern parts of england , southeastern parts of england, we've got a blustery wind that blows through the channel. and increasingly, that wind is going to affect the low countries by the start of wednesday, some

very strong winds for the likes of the netherlands and germany. very strong winds for the likes of tiacross1erlands and germany. very strong winds for the likes of tiacross theands and germany. very strong winds for the likes of tiacross the uk; and germany. very strong winds for the likes of tiacross the uk it|nd germany. very strong winds for the likes of tiacross the uk it does armany. very strong winds for the likes of tiacross the uk it does settle r. but across the uk it does settle down later on with clear spells, but also still a few showers about first thing across parts of wales , north—west england, of wales, north—west england, eastern scotland as well. however, for many, it's a better day with the longer bright and dry spells. some glimmers of sunlight coming through and in some spots, actually, it's going to be mostly dry, but there'll still be a scattering of showers out there and it's still going to be relatively cool compared with much of june. but temperatures are about bang on average . we're looking at 20 to average. we're looking at 20 to 23 celsius in the south, 18 to 21. further north. then the showers ease away across central and southern parts of the uk overnight. but they'll keep going across northern and western scotland , parts of western scotland, parts of northern as well. northern ireland as well. thicker towards thicker cloud towards the north—west and clear spells towards the southeast . but towards the southeast. but wherever you are, it's a slightly milder night with most places temperatures stay places seeing temperatures stay at 11 to 14 celsius. then good

prospects for sunshine across the midlands , eastern and the midlands, eastern and southern england, eastern scotland , first thing thursday. scotland, first thing thursday. elsewhere, the cloud builds and certainly across western scotland, northern ireland, nonh scotland, northern ireland, north western parts of england and wales will see some showers developing before some wetter weather into northern weather arrives into northern ireland, along with a strengthening later strengthening breeze later thursday continues thursday that continues to affect much of scotland and northern ireland on friday. whilst heat builds further .

south tonight on farage with me patrick christys. we have got a huge update on nigel's bank accounts from the man himself . accounts from the man himself. >> we will be hearing an exclusive from nigel very shortly, but first, we have

thousands of afghan refugees