coming up tonight oliver live. coming up tonight on the show, we'll be joined by philosopher dr. pierce ben, to consider whether in the wake of the hugh elle edwards revelations, it's too easy for prominent people to abuse their position . we'll also be talking position. we'll also be talking to a former member of the hunganan to a former member of the hungarian parliament about the importance of free speech on social media to and contemplate the dangers of censorship in countries with autocratic leaders. and finally , in a real leaders. and finally, in a real change of direction, brown bread ice cream is making a comeback work from dover castle to stonehenge , 13 english heritage stonehenge, 13 english heritage sites will be serving the 18th century. treat this summer. all of that, plus plenty of chat with my eloquent panellist , with my eloquent panellist, ingnd with my eloquent panellist, ingrid tarrant. but first, an update on the latest news from ray addison . that ray addison. that >> thanks, neal. our top story tonight councils in england and wales have joined doctors in calling for a ban on disposable

vapes. calling for a ban on disposable vapes . the local government vapes. the local government association wants a uk wide ban to be imposed next year over damage caused to the environment and the danger to young people. it says the 1.3 million vapes discarded every week are a litter, blight and a fire hazard . earlier this month, the british medical association voted to review the potential dangers of vaping, described it as a growing epidemic. dangers of vaping, described it as a growing epidemic . well, as a growing epidemic. well, junior doctors have been striking for a third day in england . the bma has warned the england. the bma has warned the government that their members will not back down over demands for a 35% pay rise. that's despite the prime minister adopting the recommendations of independent pay review bodies and making a final pay offer of 6. the five day strike, the longest in nhs history, runs until tuesday morning . the until tuesday morning. the government is considering scrapping inheritance tax in a bid to win the next general election. the times is reporting

that the move could be a manifesto attempt to secure votes in so—called blue wall seats. it would come at a cost of £7 billion, most couples can pass on up to a £1 million to their children without paying any inheritance tax. currently parts of the uk have been experiencing strong winds and thunderstorms with yellow met office warnings in place across the south of england and wales and scotland. the goodwood festival of speed had to cancel today's events for the first time in its 30 year history and london's kaleidoscope festival at alexander palace had to be called off as well. weather journalist nathan rau told gb news high winds can be more dangerous at this time of year. >> across the south of england . >> across the south of england. that's london, the south—east, the east of england , leicester, the east of england, leicester, leicestershire , essex, all that leicestershire, essex, all that sort of area. that's for gusts of up to 55mph, which doesn't seem that high. remember seem that high. but remember that trees are in full leaf that the trees are in full leaf at the moment. so strong gusts can more damage they

can cause more damage than they would for example, in would do. say, for example, in november, all leaves november, when all the leaves are down. >> well, it comes as the cerberus heat wave continues to sweep europe. a forest sweep across europe. a forest fire has broken out on the spanish island of la palma in the canaries. authorities have had to evacuate more than 500 people with an area of around 200 hectares destroyed by the blaze . one of the last two ships blaze. one of the last two ships exporting grain from ukraine under an agreement with russia has now arrived in istanbul. the black sea grain deal, which expires on monday, has enabled ukraine to export grain and food safely over the past year. despite the war. ukraine is a major supplier of key crops like sunflower oil and barley. moscow is threatening to pull out of the deal and is calling for western sanctions to ease . western sanctions to ease. israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu has been admitted to hospital due to dehydration, according to his office. it comes after local media reported

that the 73 year old had experienced chest pain. his doctors say nothing is out of order, but recommended he keeps undergoing routine checks . undergoing routine checks. protesters have assemble outside the hospital and continue to demonstrate against the prime minister's judicial overhaul . minister's judicial overhaul. marquette vondrousova has made wimbledon history by becoming the first unseeded woman to win the first unseeded woman to win the title in the open era. she beat tunisia's ons jabeur in straight sets 6464. the princess of wales presented the venus rose water dish to the czech player who was on the road to recovery after injury stalled. her early career. recovery after injury stalled. her early career . we're on tv her early career. we're on tv onune her early career. we're on tv online on dab+ radio and on. tune in to this is gb news. time now to go back to .

now to go back to. neil we're a long way through the looking glass now . looking glass now. >> well, inside the alternative reality , where up is down and reality, where up is down and wrong is right where anything goes for a self—selecting in—crowd. and if you're not in that in—crowd, then your sense of right and wrong makes you a reactionary fascist conspiracy theorist fit only for ridicule and cancellation . i know. i'm and cancellation. i know. i'm saying some of the same things over and over, but it's only because those things are true and worth remembering and keeping and i won't stop repeating them because if we stop telling the truth and the game's the end, the game's over, in the end, the truth is all we have, but also all we need. and it's important to know we're being and to know we're being actively and blatantly to by the blatantly lied to by the authorities. if you don't know as much already know now that the authorities lie about anything and everything and always have because it's in the nature of the personalities involved, good liars are hard to spot. but by now we're being lied to by bad liars, which at least makes it easier to see them coming. just as a for instance, rishi sunak is

utterly, utterly unconvincing about everything, even when it comes to playing the part of a regular human being. if he was telling truth, he telling the truth, which he isn't, he still couldn't sell a life raft a drowning man life raft to a drowning man spouting lies now is, as the spouting the lies now is, as the cliche has it, like shooting fish in a barrel. cliche has it, like shooting fish in a barrel . fundamentally, fish in a barrel. fundamentally, we're now being lied to about the right way to think about the right way to see the world or the right value judgements to make. we're being lied to about what basic morality looks like. i see we've been walked through the looking glass towards the point where we're to believe all the values we held before we were wrong. i say don't believe a word of it. the metal fittings that hold the oars in place on a rowing boat are called rowlocks. what we're being told now sounds a lot like rowlocks, but it's a word i say. at 6 pm, we word i can't say. at 6 pm, we were invited to see bbc newsreader huw edwards as a convention figure. in recent days , it's been apparent that in days, it's been apparent that in many ways he's unconventional. but response from the but the response from the in—crowd in the aftermath of that unexpected revelation , the

that unexpected revelation, the reply from the self—proclaimed great and good from those that think they know best, and that certainly like to tell the rest of us what to think has been what were to use, revealing, frankly it's none of your chattering class white van driving state educated business. they've said in not so many words. that in short, has been the message from above of the sun newspaper broke the story. people all over the place paid attention, reacting out of surprise, and many started to make noises that they were unimpressed, to say the least. and then the alastair campbell's, john simpson's and the rest weighed in to inform us that the activities of one of their own, one of the in—crowd, were none of our concern. and what's worth noticing more than anything else is how quickly and overwhelmingly we've been encouraged to disregard as utterly irrelevant the revelations themselves and to condemn instead those who've asked questions about what exactly was going on when it came to someone who nightly trots out the state of the

nafion trots out the state of the nation as the establishment wants us to see it. what authority figure after another has come forward in recent days with words to the effect that if there's a problem, then it rests not with in the in—crowd, not with them in the in—crowd, but with here in the but with us out here in the general population. it comes from the same in—crowd that says when we do it, whatever we do , when we do it, whatever we do, it's because we're superior and sophisticate . and in ways you sophisticate. and in ways you regular tax paying, law abiding types begin to appreciate types cannot begin to appreciate the overweening condescension of the overweening condescension of the self—appointed in—crowd has always been there . the always been there. the difference now is that they're rubbing our noses in it as part of the effort to bully us into thinking everything we think is just plain wrong . over and over just plain wrong. over and over again. during the years just past those regarding themselves as betters in every way as our betters in every way blatantly disregarded the rules and regulations they had imposed upon rest of us. the message upon the rest of us. the message was in covid, as in the was that in covid, as in the rest of life, it was one set of rules for us and none at all for them. and you better not question or else when we do question it or else when we do it, it's because we're intellectuals who went to the

right and universities right schools and universities as in private jets as when we fly in private jets and take multi—car cavalcades to the climate conference, it's because nothing's going to change for while everything change for us. while everything changes . when you heat changes for you. when you heat your home with a gas boiler and drive a diesel van for your work, it's because you're downright stupid and reckless. we'll heat our homes how we like and drive what we want while you walk work and live colder, walk to work and live colder, hungner walk to work and live colder, hungrier lives. as i read politics, philosophy and economics at oxford, they say so when i didn't wear a mask and partied with my chums, it was altogether different than when you to you proles felt the need to gather at your dying dad's bedside or hold hands at his funeral . always message funeral. or always the message is along the lines of pay your tv licence and along with tv licence and get along with you know what's good for you if you know what's good for you if you know what's good for you raise a question or two you or raise a question or two about any of the in—crowd and feel the wrath. what i'm asking is where are we now when it comes to what most people would consider ordinary values , family consider ordinary values, family values? where are we when it comes to knowing the ways of

life, to stand by and to defend? and do we any longer have agreed standards of acceptable behaviour ? the setting aside the behaviour? the setting aside the drama of the past week, it's hard not to notice a bigger, more sinister trend . the all more sinister trend. the all encompassing we're being encompassing notion we're being ianed encompassing notion we're being invited to accept is that nothing about traditional values and matters now. it's and morals matters now. it's especially the case that nothing thatis especially the case that nothing that is nothing to do with the human, nothing to do with the family, nothing to do with the child sacrosanct anymore . or child is sacrosanct anymore. or that message of you'll that echoing message of you'll own nothing and you'll be happy turns out that among turns out to mean that among everything we're supposed everything else, we're supposed to any certainty to hand over is any certainty about right and wrong? apparently we're to be happy with the idea that right is whatever powerful is whatever the powerful say it is , as well being happy without , as well as being happy without our freedoms, our cash, our right to ownership, to right to home ownership, to drive cars , or to be happy drive our cars, or to be happy without our opinions , far less without our opinions, far less the right to express them . what the right to express them. what to with, whatever we're to be happy with, whatever we're given to think, given, including what to think, having opinions about what our children told at school is children are told at school is apparently the mark of a disruptive, intolerant, dissenting, radical questioning.

the notion of men in drag reading fairy tales to toddlers makes us right next door to criminal . makes us right next door to criminal. knowing that as parents, we should have the final say in what our children are taught about sex and relationships, is relationships, and by whom is apparently a mindset that comes from consuming all that misinformation on internet misinformation on the internet all the time. the message from on high seems to be why are you bothering about the education, the conditioning of your child , the conditioning of your child, and outmoded about and outmoded ideas about protecting the innocence of childhood ? more and more, childhood? more and more, i worry about the well—being of children, about what they're being told is right, about what they're being encouraged to accept normal, everyday life accept as normal, everyday life . and out there in the darkened background of what we're being ianed background of what we're being invited is the knowledge, invited to see is the knowledge, the absolute fact, indeed the unknown uncounted numbers of unknown and uncounted numbers of babies and children are being trafficked world. you trafficked around the world. you might say children have always been and sold and you'd been bought and sold and you'd been bought and sold and you'd be now , when there's be right. but now, when there's more information than ever before the before about the scale of the horror, anyone demanding the raising the treated raising of the alarm is treated with suspicion, if not outright

contempt . but the team behind contempt. but the team behind a movie on general release in the united called the sound movie on general release in the urfreedom, called the sound movie on general release in the urfreedom, aboutad the sound movie on general release in the ur freedom, about the he sound movie on general release in the urfreedom, about the effortsnd movie on general release in the ur freedom, about the efforts of of freedom, about the efforts of one man to disrupt child trafficking and to rescue as many children as possible is under attack by the in—crowd . under attack by the in—crowd. and rather than concentrate their fire on monstrous their fire on the monstrous trade in children bigger than the arms trade, soon to be bigger than the drugs trade, mainstream and pundits mainstream critics and pundits are more inclined to ridicule the people attending the movie as white haired q—anon crazies. instead of dealing head on with the nightmare described by the movie , the preferred response movie, the preferred response has been to suggest that anyone taking the allegations as seriously as no more than a crank at the sound of freedom has taken more than $40 million at the box office already this month. rolling stone month. but in rolling stone magazine piece by the author seemed less interested in the content of the film and more inclined to ridicule audience members calling out amen. in response uplifting moments, i response to uplifting moments, i was supposed to take from that the idea that practising christians are more appropriate

targets for attack than people buying and selling babies in this strange new world where apparently to disregard the well—being of the child is all just more of the ethos of owning nothing and being happy . which nothing and being happy. which is to say that in the threatened future, parents will have no say over children either. in over their children either. in the i'd idealised world the imagined i'd idealised world of the future children and therefore adults they might therefore the adults they might become will be concern not become will be the concern not of parents and family, of the parents and the family, but state. the pervasive but of the state. the pervasive message that anything goes as long it's not illegal is as long as it's not illegal is as corrosive as cancer . as corrosive as cancer. as government grows more powerful , government grows more powerful, more distant from the people, so that government feels more entitled yet more entitled to write, yet more legislation detriment of legislation to the detriment of those people, what might they legalise next? or at least invite us to regard as perfectly acceptable ? why, for example, is acceptable? why, for example, is there always a push to further lower the of consent? but i lower the age of consent? but i see now that the senate in the wind discernible anyone wind discernible to anyone paying wind discernible to anyone paying attention is that next nudge nudge now is nudge. the nudge right now is towards accepting paedophilia paedophilia is going mainstream

paedophilia is going mainstream paedophilia by any other name. those that were once called are now described as minor attracted persons . always the tactic is persons. always the tactic is the same . it's about a foot in the same. it's about a foot in the same. it's about a foot in the door, then a leg, then the whole body. have you noticed the steady procession of so—called authority figures were authority figures people were supposed trust and to supposed to trust and to believe, refusing to condemn behaviour that five years ago would have been regarded as beyond the while beyond the pale, while simultaneous refusing see simultaneous, refusing to see what is . here's the what a woman is. here's the thing. despite what you may have felt yourself being led to believe right is still right. wrong is still wrong. the well—being children , all well—being of children, all children always be central children must always be central to civilisation and don't to our civilisation and don't for one second take your eyes off anyone trying to distract you from the truth . you from the truth. joining me tonight for the whole of the show is broadcaster ingnd of the show is broadcaster ingrid tarrant. ingrid what do you think about where we're being led? yeah i have to.

>> you are amazing . >> you are amazing. >> you are amazing. >> oh, ingrid, please. >> oh, ingrid, please. >> honestly, that monologue , >> honestly, that monologue, it's so powerful . it really is . it's so powerful. it really is. that might have been the wrong thing to do, but you are right about right and wrong. there is no distinction anymore . and it no distinction anymore. and it starts in the classroom . starts in the classroom. teachers as you'll own nothing and be happy. that's what they want . they don't want people to want. they don't want people to think for themselves . no think for themselves. no critical thinking, no understood landing. i mean, the fact that are now given the kind of quite, quite nice name map or minor attracted people, why are they doing that ? not to shame them so doing that? not to shame them so they don't feel quite so bad about what they really are. >> why is it why is it wrong all of a sudden to hold the values that most people in this part of the world have held and navigated by for generation after generation ? what has what after generation? what has what has made the decision that those

values are no longer worth retaining? >> you know , you probably think >> you know, you probably think i'm a conspiracy theorist, but i think that over time it is all kind of like the big plan and the great reset, you know, and things like that. because over time and i've seen it, if you look back before until now, we've been desensitised. first of all, the other thing we've been so overly protected and mollycoddled, you can't fall oven mollycoddled, you can't fall over. you can't graze yourself. nobody understands hurt, pain, challenge . and so we've become challenge. and so we've become or not we but the next generation will emerge as just nothing's . they won't really nothing's. they won't really think for themselves . they won't think for themselves. they won't take risks because they've been so protected. they're not allowed to. health and safety was a great driver of that, wasn't it? you won't get the wonderful explorers like going out there on a limb and risking life and limb because they just they don't. so to me, this is all part of that, that you won't think you won't have to worry about anything. you won't have

to face challenges. it's taken care of. it's removed . you're care of. it's removed. you're removed from all responsibility city and that is the blameless society that we've that has emerged in the last 20 years as well. everybody is blameless . well. everybody is blameless. >> so what i notice more and more, though, is where there's an allegation made or demonstrable fact where people say, can we talk about this? can we debate this? >> well, sometimes they just deny it. >> but the question, the spotlight of ridicule and cancelling goes on. >> the people who want to have the debate, the issue at hand is set aside. never mind that it's uncomfortable to talk about who are you and why do you want to talk about that. >> because it's the uncomfortable truth. they don't want to talk about it. they don't want you . you are don't want you. you are cancelled. it's gaslight outing in a way. you know that you're right. and thank goodness actually for a lot of the aspects of social media that you

realise you're not alone and you're thinking . but generally you're thinking. but generally the powers that be, the authorities , they're gaslighting authorities, they're gaslighting cancelling us. >> and for me, as i said, there, there's something very corrosive indeed about the notion that as long as it's legal, it's fine because any government can legislate anything it wants. in this day and age. and we have to remember that there's a profound difference between legal and lawful and between what's legal and what's right. >> also the other thing is, >> and also the other thing is, neil, there's no criminalising of a lot of these things. >> so it may not be kind of legal, but you realise that it's wrong, but they don't criminalise it. so therefore it becomes acceptable . becomes acceptable. >> so where, where do you think we are now as a society? are we, are we fully adrift or is there still a way back to the shore? >> no, i think we are. i think we're hanging on by a thread. i think we're even though everyone still knows what's right and what's wrong , we all know. what's wrong, we all know. >> well, do we all know? >> well, do we all know?

>> i think that a lot of these children growing up now actually don't we do, because we're of that generation. that's how we were brought up. but i think we're financially bankrupt for sure, and we're morally bankrupt as well. >> think when it comes >> i do. i think when it comes to the fundamentals of right and wrong, i think i think people know without told. know it without being told. >> everyone, you know, >> i think everyone, you know, babies they're babies cry when they're mistreated smile . mistreated and babies smile. well, when they're when they're given well, when they're when they're giv> neal, if i think on the whole that's that's true. but supposing you're brought up in a family where all you've seen is cruelty, maybe that your father, stepfather, whatever , beating up stepfather, whatever, beating up your mother to a pulp and so on, they wouldn't know that that's they wouldn't know that that's they wouldn't know that that's they would it would frighten them , but they might think that them, but they might think that that's quite normal , that that that's quite normal, that that happensin that's quite normal, that that happens in normal society. so again, being desensitised to get to hold that thought. >> ingrid coming up next, though, we'll be joined by the academic and philosopher dr. pierce bain, to discuss whether in the light of all of this,

it's too easy for people in positions of power to abuse their positions. you're watching neil live on gb news, the neil oliver live on gb news, the people's

radio. well come back to neil oliver live >> a few years ago, the world of the west was, it seems to me, a very different place than today. so much has changed in every part of life. i have all sorts of questions, but my quandary boils down to where are we now as a society and where are we going? and joining us to help us find is philosopher find some answers is philosopher and ethicist dr. ben. good evening, doctor. >> good evening . hello. >> good evening. hello. >> good evening. hello. >> this is a this is a topic that fascinates me because dunng that fascinates me because during the pandemic we were nudged. during the pandemic we were nudged . we know that it was nudged. we know that it was admitted that we were being nudged by behavioural scientists to behave a certain way. are we being nudged to have a different view of right and wrong, or am i just being paranoid? what do you mean? >> during covid pandemic or

>> during the covid pandemic or just behaviour is just we're are our behaviour is being intentionally nudged by the we were seeing in the adverts we were seeing in the adverts we were seeing in the propaganda we were hearing. >> wonder if we are being >> and i wonder if we are being nudged to accept a different morality . morality. >> suppose the question >> well, i suppose the question there what is nudging and there is what is nudging and what's actually wrong with it. i mean morality at its best is a rational process . it's not rational process. it's not something you take on authority , although, well, ultimately , although, well, not ultimately something take authority. something you take on authority. though authority though there may be authority you follow. so if you're you should follow. so if you're being in the right being nudged in the right direction you say, well, direction, you could say, well, you what the law you know, that's what the law does. what that's what does. that's what that's what pubuc does. that's what that's what public opinion does. that's what your neighbours your your neighbours do. your neighbours in in all your neighbours do. your neigrof urs in in all your neighbours do. your neigrof directions in in all your neighbours do. your neigrof directions thatin in all your neighbours do. your neigrof directions that may all your neighbours do. your neigrof directions that may be sorts of directions that may be for good or ill, in ways that lead behave in certain lead you to behave in certain ways necessarily ways without necessarily thinking them through. so if by nudge mean influence, are we nudge you mean influence, are we being form certain being influenced to form certain moral that's not moral views? that's not necessarily problem . i mean, necessarily a problem. i mean, maybe we need to influenced . maybe we need to be influenced. i ago you were i mean, a moment ago you were talking about how morality is broken down and maybe schools should stricter whatever broken down and maybe schools sris. ld stricter whatever broken down and maybe schools sris.that'stricter whatever broken down and maybe schools sris. that's that's whatever broken down and maybe schools sris. that's that's a whatever broken down and maybe schools sris. that's that's a senseever broken down and maybe schools sris. that's that's a sense of r it is. that's that's a sense of that's kind of nudging. in that's a kind of nudging. in fact, it's severe than

fact, it's more severe than that. it's threats of punishment. the question punishment. i mean, the question is, rationality is is, are we is our rationality is our to think about moral our ability to think about moral questions undermined , questions being undermined, signed and that's a really signed by. and that's a really interesting question you're on to. >> what would you say is the answer to that question? >> well, depends. >> well, it depends. >> well, it depends. >> depends on the context. it >> it depends on the context. it depends we're talking depends on what we're talking about. i when it comes about. i think when it comes to, say, public and you say, public health and you mentioned think we were mentioned covid, i think we were i very complicated i mean, it's a very complicated issue should have done issue what we should have done and nobody really knew because so is unknown in the early so much is unknown in the early stages. we might been stages. but we might have been nudged be rather unreflective nudged to be rather unreflective about balance the various about how to balance the various goods at stake. so public health versus individual freedom and maybe were being nudged or sort of bullied, if you like, into a pubuc of bullied, if you like, into a public health direction without sufficient thought. don't sufficient thought. but i don't think problem is exactly think the problem is exactly nudging or what i might prefer to influence. the problem to call influence. the problem might the direction, the might be in the direction, the direction being nudged in direction you're being nudged in and you're being allowed and whether you're being allowed the capacity to answer back and to reflect, aren't you in partly a presupposing, to reflect, aren't you in partly apresupposing, benevolence to reflect, aren't you in partly a presupposing, benevolence or a presupposing, a benevolence or a presupposing, a benevolence or a authority that's doing a benign authority that's doing the nudging? >> if you're if it's

>> you know, if you're if it's all very well, if you're being nudged a benevolent nudged by by a benevolent entity. what you're being entity. but what if you're being nudged total nudged by an authoritarian total libertarian entity is libertarian entity that is working of vested interests? >> well, yours. >> well, not yours. >> well, not yours. >> the problem. find >> that's the problem. you find in of societies. in all sorts of societies. you're bound find you you're bound to find it. you find it there are good find it in. there are good schools and bad schools. there are schools that nudge you in bad there are states bad directions. there are states and that nudging and societies that nudging in bad directions. mean, the bad directions. i mean, the most extreme be, you extreme example would be, you know, soviet know, the soviet the soviet union other countries union and the other countries where nudged to, to where people were nudged to, to think a certain way and think in a certain way and weren't weren't given the means to think in other ways. mean, to think in other ways. i mean, the about things to think in other ways. i mean, the i about things to think in other ways. i mean, the i mean, about things to think in other ways. i mean, the i mean, let's about things to think in other ways. i mean, the i mean, let's callrt things to think in other ways. i mean, the i mean, let's call itthings like i mean, let's call it indoctrination, like, indoctrination, if you like, it's the area. i mean, it's in the same area. i mean, indoctrination operates by depriving of information depriving people of information and by bombarding them with the preferred information while undermining ability to undermining people's ability to think things through, things autonomously. for some, to bring it back then to the specific of what's been happening this week with the bbc. >> . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and the emerging simmering scandal and the scandal there. yes. and the nofion scandal there. yes. and the notion nothing illegal took notion that nothing illegal took place, you know, isn't it important to pay attention to

the difference between legal and right? >> it depends what question you're asking. if the question is, you know, should huw edwards, as it turned out to be, be punished for what he did , be punished for what he did, should he be shunned? should he lose his job? i think it is relevant to ask whether he did was illegal. and because was illegal. and just because you he didn't do you say that he didn't do anything illegal, it doesn't mean nothing immoral. and mean he did nothing immoral. and of there's a distinction of course, there's a distinction between law and morality and in liberal democracies as liberal democracies such as we are to maybe some are supposed to have, maybe some do have in liberal democracies that that distinction that that that distinction is enshrined and should be. >> ingrid, do you feel that in the that context, were the in that context, we were being influenced to disregard any notion of morality and just to contemplate legal and illegal? >> well, i think it's so complex. first and foremost, i think the bbc would just protecting their product. so that anything that went with it came under that they were the legality , the morality and all legality, the morality and all that sort of thing almost came

secondary to them. that's my sort of belief in it. but the thing is , you say that, you thing is, you say that, you know, this goes on. we're talking about hugh, in this particular case. it's an interesting thing because obviously he's bisexual . and but obviously he's bisexual. and but being you know, ngtq , x, y, z, being you know, ngtq, x, y, z, whatever it is, honestly, i've lost track of all the letters is accepted in society and so, again, it's a very difficult sort position that one's put in where you're accepting that on the one hand, but you can't accept that on another hand and therefore, is it does it all boil down to the fact that he's a household name, a national figure, and therefore it makes it more wrong? and i don't know what's the answer? >> well, i mean, i think whatever you think about homosexuality, and homosexuality, bisexuality and so on, there is a distinction between moral questions and the question of what the law should be and i think quite rightly, in the 1960s, the law was changed. it was thought, you know, the

wolfenden and the wolfenden report and the subsequent change legislation subsequent change of legislation decided areas of decided that there were areas of private morality . that's the private morality. that's the wrong but of wrong phrase, but areas of private that should not be the law's business. and that's surely i mean, adultery, surely right. i mean, adultery, for is for example, you might think is immoral, a matter immoral, but it's not a matter for police. for the police. >> about it should not be. >> what about it should not be. what about the nudge that's going paedophilia? going on around paedophilia? >> say, you know, this >> i would say, you know, this this notion of a minor attracted person, why person, you know, why would why would authority in the would authority be in the business , you know, business of renaming, you know, a though distance it a group as though to distance it and make a and make a dichotomy between how they were regarded in past and how they are in the past and how they are supposed to be regarded well who in the past and how they are su doingd to be regarded well who in the past and how they are su doing this?e regarded well who is doing this? >> so i mean. well, i don't know who up with the acronym. who came up with the acronym. >> i don't know who came up with minor attracted persons. >> but nonetheless, >> but but nonetheless, playing along with it though. >> thing. so now it's >> that's the thing. so now it's become new speak. become the new speak. >> i mean, the odd thing is that paedophilia, if that mean paedophilia, if by that you mean actual with actual sexual activity with minors is and should be against the and public is the law and public opinion is strongly against and there strongly against it and there have been panics about strongly against it and there ha'ie been panics about strongly against it and there ha'i mean been panics about strongly against it and there ha'i mean 22,0001 panics about strongly against it and there ha'i mean 22,000 when:s about strongly against it and there ha'i mean 22,000 when this»out it. i mean 22,000 when this happenedin it. i mean 22,000 when this happened in wake of various happened in the wake of various

horrific so we i mean, horrific murders. so we i mean, clearly that's a case where consent can't be given and it's quite right it illegal. quite right to make it illegal. >> as someone who watched and pays attention notions like pays attention to notions like ethics , do you ethics and morality, do you think there is a shift going on in our society? >> you could say there's always a shift the weather . is there a shift in the weather. is there a shift in the weather. is there a there a drift towards a is there a drift towards something more louche and towards something less? >> it really depends where you're looking. >> there's a great danger of anecdotal with all anecdotal reasoning with all these looking at these questions, looking at what you look and not you want to look at and not looking the rest. i mean, looking at the rest. i mean, i think earlier on you're discussing in discussing about morality in schools find the schools actually, i find the young today, the ones i young people today, the ones i teach more moralistic, you teach more moralistic, if you like, areas than they like, in certain areas than they were i mean, were when i was young. i mean, people much more conscious people are much more conscious of racism, for example, much more conscious of this sort of thing. moral thing. these are moral questions. whatever thing. these are moral que�*think. whatever thing. these are moral que�*think about whatever thing. these are moral que�*think about what whatever thing. these are moral que�*think about what racism er you think about what racism actually and we actually is and so on. and we can lots of debates about can have lots of debates about that. those are moral questions. and when it comes to and i think when it comes to sexual i sexual morality, i mean, i think, you know, it's perfectly true over the 50 true that over the last 50 years, there's been a shift in pubuc

years, there's been a shift in public attitudes towards, say, things sex people. things like sex people. you're not i nobody not married to. i mean, nobody would eyelid at that. and would bat an eyelid at that. and homosexuality. and i think on the whole, that shift been homosexuality. and i think on the wibut, that shift been homosexuality. and i think on the wibut there shift been homosexuality. and i think on the wibut there isn't been homosexuality. and i think on the wibut there isn't shiften good. but there isn't a shift towards infidelity. people do actually baulk when they think towards infidelity. people do actu people ilk when they think towards infidelity. people do actu people ilk vbeing hey think towards infidelity. people do actu people ilk vbeing betrayed towards infidelity. people do ac'when ple ilk vbeing betrayed towards infidelity. people do ac'when oreilk vbeing betrayed towards infidelity. people do ac'when or wheneing betrayed towards infidelity. people do ac'when or when minors trayed towards infidelity. people do ac'when or when minors are ed or when or when minors are being exploited, for example, or people being people with less power are being exploited. there's actually a much awareness of much greater moral awareness of those and you know, to those things. and you know, to that extent, it's good thing. that extent, it's a good thing. it go into overdrive. it it can go into overdrive. obviously, does. obviously, it often does. >> do you share that interpretation? >> you know that what bannau is saying about youngsters being more in certain ways ? >> 7- >> yes. you ? >> yes. you know, 7 >> yes. you know, funnily enough, i do. and i see the younger generation being very much more monogamous and they're they've really got wonderful relationships. they've got real friendships in that relationship . no, it's true. >> and they can't afford their own homes either. >> no, they can't either. but no, i think they're kind of but in a funny way, i find that that came with the loss of feminism. well, all the rise of feminism in that sort of thing, where it

was all equal, which i kind of like, i felt a little bit sad. i love it. neil kinnock when he opens doors and i, i kind of like rue the loss of that, but at the same time, it has brought about something very, very good because they see themselves and they themselves equals. they treat themselves as equals. so that difference so there isn't that difference in know, the male is in status. you know, the male is superior to the female and so on. so that's that is a good thing. but do you think religion or the loss of religious studies in school has made a difference ? because i do. i think there's a whole whitewash now because we have to be multicultural and all inclusive. what do you say, doctor ? doctor? >> well, i think we should be multicultural to the extent that we do live in a multi—faith society. there are actually a society. there are actually a society predominantly, society of predominantly, predominantly . but and predominantly secular. but and schools what schools should teach what is what actually believe. what people actually believe. people other people should understand other people's not people's beliefs. that is not relativism. not teaching relativism. that is not teaching that right wrong, that there is no right or wrong, although religion is although every religion is equally mean, that's equally true. i mean, that's clearly nonsense. liberal clearly nonsense. and no liberal like me wants to defend that. but it's right that people should taught tolerance ,

should be taught tolerance, which up with what which means putting up with what you don't agree with towards other other other ways other cultures, other other ways of life . on the general question of life. on the general question of life. on the general question of or morality, of religion or morality, it's i mean, the question do mean, if the question is do people better, if they people behave better, if they believe religion , that's believe in religion, that's that's an empirical i don't think there's any evidence. actually, do. fact, some actually, they do. in fact, some of less religious countries of the less religious countries like or scandinavia, like japan or scandinavia, czechoslovakia, republic, czechoslovakia, czech republic, these non—religious. these are very non—religious. there's no evidence of any increased fact, increased crime. in fact, there's to have there's less going to have to jump there's less going to have to jump for a break. jump in there for a break. >> but thank you very much for a very evenhanded and very thank you open evenhanded you very open and evenhanded debate. much. you debate. thank you very much. you very much. >> fascinating. thank thank you. into break now coming up into that break now coming up after former after we'll be joined by former hunganan after we'll be joined by former hungarian mp zoltan kesz to talk about the importance of free speech on social media to and consider the dangers of censorship . censorship. >> you're watching neil oliver live on gb news. we are the people's channel. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news.

on. gb news. >> hello there, i'm jonathan vautrey here with your latest gb news weather forecast provided by the met office . unseasonably by the met office. unseasonably windy saturday for many of us through today. all due to this low pressure system we saw gusts close to 50mph. even in some inland areas of southern england . and those winds will be staying with us throughout this evening and overnight. we've also seen a good number of thunderstorms throughout day also seen a good number of thiwell. ;torms throughout day also seen a good number of thiwell. ;torms wilnghout day also seen a good number of thiwell. ;torms will continue day also seen a good number of thiwell. ;torms will continue toiay as well. those will continue to rumble into the evening rumble on into the evening before eventually easing their way touch. but showery way off a touch. but showery outbreaks continuing outbreaks of rain continuing across locations overnight. across many locations overnight. the place will the breeze that's in place will mean that our temperatures won't be dropping too far all. most be dropping too far at all. most of holding up around 1213 c. of us holding up around 1213 c. no not particularly chilly start to sunday morning. the winds, though, will begin to ease their way southwestern way down across southwestern areas into england. but areas of wales into england. but it is still going to be quite breezy through sunday for eastern coastal areas up into central more central scotland. some more persistent western persistent rain for western areas of scotland and again, some in some thunderstorms possible in the in between the east, northeast in between some the showers. elsewhere some of the showers. elsewhere across england wales, seeing

across england and wales, seeing highs 2022 degrees highs around 2022 degrees celsius. still rather cool in that breeze that is around the low pressure centre is going to push its off towards push its way off towards scandinavia move into the scandinavia as we move into the start the working week. start of the new working week. so be still some so there will be still some outbursts of rain. first thing on monday parts of scotland, on monday for parts of scotland, but will gradually but they will gradually ease their most of us their way down and most of us will another day of will then enter another day of sunshine and showers. the winds noticeably lighter across southern uk, just southern areas of the uk, just the still lingering on a the breeze still lingering on a touch far touch more across the far north—east. showers as north—east. further showers as we the rest of north—east. further showers as we week the rest of north—east. further showers as we week as the rest of north—east. further showers as we week as well the rest of north—east. further showers as we week as well . the rest of the week as well. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on .

radio show. well come back. >> thanks for staying with neil oliver live i'm joined now by former hungarian mp zoltan kertesz to talk about the importance of free speech on social media and about the dangers of censorship in

countries with autocratic and totalitarian leaders . good totalitarian leaders. good evening, zoltan. thanks for joining us. >> good evening. hi zoltan . >> good evening. hi zoltan. >> good evening. hi zoltan. >> first of all, what online censorship are you aware of in your homeland ? you know, to give your homeland? you know, to give us a sense of what, if anything, is different? >> well, basically , it's not >> well, basically, it's not necessarily censorship, censorship that we have. it's a whole different media landscape that we're talking about regarding hungary, especially when you look at who owns the media, for example , i come from media, for example, i come from a small town and in this town there is no chance to watch or enjoy anything that's not owned by the government or the government. oligarchs so that's that's a kind of censorship in a way . also, we see way. also, we see self—censorship of journalists who work for papers owned by the government because obviously they don't want to lose their jobs as far as social media censorship , jobs as far as social media censorship, i jobs as far as social media censorship , i haven't seen any

censorship, i haven't seen any example , luckily, and i don't example, luckily, and i don't want to see any example of social media censorship ever grounds for a government seeking to take and apply control over what people are seeing and saying . i couldn't get all the saying. i couldn't get all the question . but basically the question. but basically the government is controlling what people are saying . basically people are saying. basically what we see in in in hungary is not necessarily government censorship itself, it's government control of real media. that is not social media, social media is the only only means how we people in opposition can communicate with other people . this is how we other people. this is how we can, for example, organise ourselves. this is how we can organise protests, this is how

we can let the people know what we can let the people know what we think of the world. otherwise, for example, i had personal experiences when i was a member of parliament that traditional media totally ignored me. they basically only claimed that i was non existent. they did not report about me. i can count on on on one hand how many times i appeared on on, on local news for example. and, and this is a kind of censorship of traditional media by the government or i would say control by the government , control by the government, social media. luckily we still we still use that to our advantage in a way. >> what was it that you were seeking to say , say that was seeking to say, say that was being silenced in that way by youn being silenced in that way by your, your, your apparent invisibility . or. invisibility. or. >> well, a lot of things, actually. >> i mean, i experienced firsthand what it means when a full smear campaign is going on

against me. let me just give you against me. let me just give you a short story. if we have time for that, like a one minute story, how i lost the election back in 2018. there was a smear campaign against me in which they claimed that i received millions of hungarian money from another politician. they had news about it everywhere. basically, they showed a picture of me having dinner with this other person. the problem is that out of the two people in the picture , neither was me . so the picture, neither was me. so i went on the campaign trail the following days , and i came following days, and i came across a very interesting experience. there were people who were like calling out my name and saying, hey, you received those millions of hunganan received those millions of hungarian forints and i said, look , this is the picture . which look, this is the picture. which one is me? and, you know what the answer was. but you were on tv and i say, do you believe your eyes or the television? and they said, the tv. and that's

when i knew that i was going to lose the election because i had no means except for social media to counter this kind of smear campaign . campaign. >> i've got a guest here in the studio with me, zoltan . ingrid studio with me, zoltan. ingrid is fascinate ing the extent to which we're so vulnerable , isn't which we're so vulnerable, isn't it, to what we are shown? yeah >> oh, god. >> oh, god. >> even, you know, making those decisions about am i even looking something that's real looking at something that's real and true? because the weight of its on television its being on the television seems us otherwise. seems to persuade us otherwise. >> is probably >> yeah, well, that is probably the most widely relied on medium. >> not many people read newspapers anymore. they do it online. fine. but i would love to ask zoltan a question , if to ask zoltan a question, if i may. is he still there ? may. is he still there? >> go on. »- >> go on. >> zoltan . i would be very >> zoltan. i would be very interested to know how you you regard the british press. do you think we're free? do you think everything is fair and open and what do you think? how do you how do you see it from hungary's

point of view ? point of view? >> well, i'm not an expert of the british press. let's put it this way. but still, when i read the british press and i read whatever, uh, you know, the news is in britain, i would i would choose to be in britain rather than in hungary for that reason. i mean , you are you are welcome i mean, you are you are welcome to enjoy the hospitality of viktor orban's so—called press freedom . but but, but i'd rather freedom. but but, but i'd rather say britain is much , much better say britain is much, much better than than hungary. they say this is interesting. >> it's a perception because i don't think our press is that free. i think we are. we are being forced almost to read what they want to us believe. so it's very interesting here. i think we're not different to hungary , we're not different to hungary, actually. do you see, zoltan , a actually. do you see, zoltan, a direction of travel? >> you know, you obviously familiar with you've been watching, paying attention to british media. have you seen any kind of change? do you see any , kind of change? do you see any, you know, flashing red warning

lights ? lights? >> well, still not. and i would say that when we talk about, for example, social media, because obviously this this is what i wrote about this week in a piece in euractiv . i believe that when in euractiv. i believe that when it comes to social media, it's still something that we have to preserve as the means to communicate with people . as a as communicate with people. as a as a former politician in hungary, what i could see and this is a positive note about social media and especially facebook, because that's the most widely used social media in hungary. that was our only means. social media in hungary. that was our only means . again, was our only means. again, stressing, emphasising it to communicate with people. otherwise as they would not have known what i was doing during my three years in parliament without social media, nothing . without social media, nothing. >> maybe there's hope for us yet here in these islands. thank you, zoltan kesh. we'll stay in touch. you, zoltan kesh. we'll stay in touch . coming up next, time for touch. coming up next, time for something totally different . the something totally different. the best thing since sliced bread , best thing since sliced bread, engush best thing since sliced bread, english heritage have recreated

georgian brown bread ice cream this summer. and after the break, we'll be finding out more. although fear not necessarily tasting it .

welcome back to neil oliver live. now there's a palate cleanser coming, i tell you, a change of direction pass on the pistachio . say no to the pistachio. say no to the strawberry a george john. that's in reference to the period of time favourite ice cream flavour has been recreated by english heritage. the new flavour or the return of an old flavour is inspired by the georgian obsession with ice cream . ice obsession with ice cream. ice cream, which included bizarre treats such as cucumber . i have treats such as cucumber. i have to say that sounds quite good . to say that sounds quite good. cucumber ice cream sounds like very good brown bread ice cream will be available throughout the summer at 13 sites, including dover castle in kent and stonehenge in wiltshire. joining me now to discuss this unique

treat as the curator of collections and interiors at kenwood house, louise couling. hello, louise . what a brilliant hello, louise. what a brilliant name for someone talking about ice cream. >> hi there . >> hi there. >> hi there. >> yes, very apt. >> yes, very apt. >> why? why the interest in this? is this is this part of a general trend ? why why are we general trend? why why are we resuscitating old old treats and old flavours . old flavours. >> well , this is part of english >> well, this is part of english heritage's senses campaign. we launched this summer. we're encouraging visitors to our historic sites to enjoy them with all five senses. we hope that this will help people deepenin that this will help people deepen in their enjoyment and appreciation of the past. and so this year, we're giving people the chance to taste history with some georgian brown bread, ice cream. >> how was it possible? how were people when you when you talk

about a couple of hundred years ago and more , how were people ago and more, how were people making ice cream? what was the what was the process ? you know, what was the process? you know, when you when you think about the necessity to refrigerate? >> absolutely. so the main ingredient that you need when you don't have refrigeration on is ice . and they technique they is ice. and they technique they used was to harvest ice . um, it used was to harvest ice. um, it was even brought in from overseas and then would be stored in ice houses. overseas and then would be stored in ice houses . a lot of stored in ice houses. a lot of wealthy people built ice houses on their estates, including at some of our sites at audley end and at kenwood in london. and then that ice would be put into a bucket and the ice cream mixture would be put into a sorbet , which mixture would be put into a sorbet, which is a sort of pewter vessel. and that would be nestled inside inside the bucket with the ice in. and then the key ingredient was salt. salt

was added to the ice and that creates an what's called an endothermic reaction. it basically lowers the temperature, which meant that even though the ice was beginning to melt, it would freeze the ice cream mixture or theicy freeze the ice cream mixture or the icy cream mixture inside the sorbet , solid the icy cream mixture inside the sorbet, solid and the icy cream mixture inside the sorbet , solid and actually it sorbet, solid and actually it was so effective that it's quicker than a contemporary ice cream maker . cream maker. >> why were people coming up with flavours like, well, for example, a brown bread? i mean, it doesn't seem to me like the natural first choice you would make if you were going to come up with a pudding. >> well, as as you can imagine, this was a relatively new addition to the english palate. >> and there was an influx of confectioners coming over from , confectioners coming over from, um, continental europe, from france , from italy and setting france, from italy and setting up shops in places like london, york , big centres , growing urban

york, big centres, growing urban centres . and they were sort of centres. and they were sort of competing with each other as to who could come up with the most interesting, outlandish flavours. so you see the traditional flavours, chocolate , pistachio things. we would recognise today, but then also brown bread, cucumber, artichoke cake and even parmesan ice cream i >> -- >> um, -_ >> um, what do you think, ingrid ? >> 7- >> oh, ? >> oh, parmesan 7 >> oh, parmesan parmesan ice cream, no , i don't even like it cream, no, i don't even like it on pasta , so i don't think i'd on pasta, so i don't think i'd like that on an ice cream. >> it's amazing. >> it's amazing. >> it's a it's a fascinating idea . louise, what else were you idea. louise, what else were you doing when it comes to in interesting the senses, you know, you're talking about taste, you know, what were the other ways which you were other ways in which you were exploring the five senses in relation to our history? >> so we are when you visit some of our historic sites, you'll find signs in different places encouraging you to walk on our lawns in some of our historic gardens , to smell the flowers

gardens, to smell the flowers growing in in some of our walled gardens and things like that, to appreciate the views across our parkland or in our historic spaces. >> so it's a wonderful idea. and i must admit, i mean, the very idea that our georgians were interested in things like pistachio flavoured ice cream, certainly gives you different certainly gives you a different perspective there's perspective on them. there's certainly certainly certainly they were certainly game . absolutely game for a laugh. absolutely >> they're surprisingly be recognisable sort of contemporary bunch of people in in some ways . in some ways. >> louise that's lovely . thank >> louise that's lovely. thank you so much for bringing that novelty to us this evening. best of luck . my pleasure. that's all of luck. my pleasure. that's all we have time for this evening. thank you to all who are watching. thank you to ingrid. up watching. thank you to ingrid. up is the wonderful father up next is the wonderful father , galvin robinson . , galvin robinson. >> that warm feeling inside from the boxt boilers. proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> hello there. i'm jonathan vautrey here with your latest gb

news weather forecast provided by the met office. unseasonably windy saturday for many of us through today , all due to this through today, all due to this low pressure system. we saw gusts close to 50mph. even in some inland areas of southern england. and those winds will be staying with us throughout this evening and overnight. we've also seen a good number of thunderstorms throughout the day as well. continue to as well. those will continue to rumble into the evening rumble on into the evening before eventually easing their way touch. showery way off a touch. but showery outbreaks rain continuing outbreaks of rain continuing across overnight. outbreaks of rain continuing acro breeze overnight. outbreaks of rain continuing acro breeze that's overnight. outbreaks of rain continuing acro breeze that's in overnight. outbreaks of rain continuing acro breeze that's in place rnight. outbreaks of rain continuing acro breeze that's in place willit. the breeze that's in place will mean that our temperatures won't be too far at most be dropping too far at all. most of up around 12, of us holding up around 12, 13 c. no, not particularly chilly start to sunday morning . chilly start to sunday morning. the winds, though, will begin to ease their way across ease their way down across southwestern areas of wales into england, still going england, but it is still going to quite breezy through to be quite breezy through sunday eastern areas sunday for eastern coastal areas up central scotland . some up into central scotland. some more rain for western more persistent rain for western areas again, areas of scotland and again, some possible in some thunderstorms possible in the east northeast in between some elsewhere some of the showers elsewhere across england and wales seeing highs around 20, 22 c, but still rather cool in that breeze that

is around the low pressure centre is going to push its way off towards scandinavia as we move start the new move into the start of the new working so there will working week. so there will be still outbursts rain still some outbursts of rain first on for parts first thing on monday for parts of scotland, but they will gradually ease their way down and will then enter and most of us will then enter another of sunshine another day of sunshine and showers . the winds noticeably showers. the winds noticeably lighter of lighter across southern areas of the just the breeze still the uk. just the breeze still lingering on a touch across lingering on a touch more across the further lingering on a touch more across the as further lingering on a touch more across the as headzurther lingering on a touch more across the as head throughout showers as we head throughout the the as well . the rest of the week as well. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers proud sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> hello and welcome. this is gb news. >> hello and welcome. this is calvin's

calvin's common sense crusade. with me, the reverend calvin robinson on your tv online and on your wireless . today, we will on your wireless. today, we will discuss why the church of england is considering defrocking archbishops, bishops and priests found guilty of abuse or serious misconduct. we will meet james