the protests cropping up across the country, does the government understand the very palpable anger out there? and suella braverman says the risk of terrorism is rising , with terrorism is rising, with islamist terror still the primary domestic terrorist threat ? would you support threat? would you support further counter—terrorism laws? we'll have that debate . and we'll have that debate. and finally, the 45 year old woman jailed for aborting her baby at around 34 weeks has been released from prison after winning a court of appeal bid to reduce her sentence . are we reduce her sentence. are we forgetting here the life of the unborn child at and we have the bbc director general tim davie, under the spotlight over the way the broadcaster dealt with allegations against presenter huw edwards. its annual report shows 500,000 more people have opted out of paying the licence fee this year. is it game over for the beeb? as ever, please do get in touch. let me know what you think about all of that. this is dewbs& co with me, emily carver. but first, let's get the latest news headlines with polly

. emily thank you. >> our top story this hour concerns the bbc. the director general has been telling a parliamentary committee today that staff at his corporation are confident in the broadcaster's whistleblowing processes . the house of lords processes. the house of lords communications and digital committee asked tim davie why the organisation didn't take allegations against its most highly paid news presenter more seriously and much sooner. the bbc boss confirmed that the organisation has been in touch with the complainant, who alleged huw edwards paid a young person for explicit images . but person for explicit images. but since the allegations were published in the sun. tim davie says the investigation could take a while to reach its conclusion . conclusion. >> it's difficult to give you a precise time on that. the reason is because you have to go through that diligently , assess through that diligently, assess the information. there's also duty of care concerns within that. so on that one, specifically, because i'm not in

control of all the variables that could take weeks or it could take a couple of months, depending on or even longer, depending on or even longer, depending on or even longer, depending on what we get and managing the individuals involved flawlessly . and i and involved flawlessly. and i and my main priority is, to be fair , make sure we get all the information into that process and act judiciously. information into that process and act judiciously . gb news and act judiciously. gb news understands 450 people have crossed the english channel today in nine small boats . today in nine small boats. >> the news comes as the first group of asylum seekers will be moved to a migrant barge which is currently docked in portland, in dorset and will be full of migrants next week. the bibby stockholm , as it's known, will stockholm, as it's known, will be used to house single male asylum seekers as part of the government's plan to reduce the cost of housing migrants in hotels. local residents have been calling for the barge to be moved elsewhere and say that local protesters at the scene aren't even from the local area.

the secretary for energy security and net zero grant shapps says the key priority is to control the uk's . to control the uk's. >> it's incredibly important that government has control over who comes to the country . last who comes to the country. last night we passed a milestone by finally defeating labour, both in the house of commons and the house of lords, who have voted dozens and dozens of times against passed a bill designed to stop the small boats. we are trying to make sure that we can control our borders and that is the difference between a conservative government who want to control our borders and a labour government who simply have answer for the home have no answer for the home secretary has said today that the risk of a terror attack in the risk of a terror attack in the uk is on the rise. >> speaking in westminster, suella braverman has identified islamist terrorism as the primary uk domestic threat. ms braverman also confirmed northern ireland related terrorism remains a significant threat, with some dissident groups continuing to plan

attacks . the home secretary also attacks. the home secretary also warned of russia, iran and china , referring to russia as the most pressing national security concern. >> terrorist attacks are becoming increasing , becoming increasing, unpredictable, making them harder to detect and investigate . late today , unlike in previous . late today, unlike in previous years , terrorist movements are years, terrorist movements are increasingly fragmented and disparate , and there are disparate, and there are emerging threats from the extreme right and from abroad. despite the prevalence of lower sophistication attacks in the uk, the threat today is more diverse and dynamic and complex i >> -- >> as the former manchester united footballer ryan giggs says, he's relieved at being cleared of domestic violence allegations after charges against him were dropped. the 49 year old was due to stand trial for a second time. accused of controlling or coercive behaviour towards his ex—girlfriend. but lawyers withdrew the prosecution. ryan

giggs denies the offences and his previous trial ended last august , with the jury his previous trial ended last august, with the jury failing to reach a verdict at donald trump says he expects to be arrested by an inquiry into the capitol riot and challenging the 2020 election results . the former us election results. the former us president says he's been informed he's the target of the special counsel investing allegation. donald trump also claims he's been sent a letter saying he has four days to report to the grand jury and argued that it almost always means an arrest and indictment. the special counsel hasn't commented on that yet , but commented on that yet, but staying in the united states, the defence secretary has confirmed a us soldier crossed the border into north korea without authorisation and us officials say he's now being held by north korea . defence held by north korea. defence secretary lloyd austin says his department is now closely monitoring the situation and they're working to notify the soldiers next of kin. he added

he is concerned about the welfare of the soldier. the individual was taking part in a tour of the joint security area and he crossed the military demarcation line separating the two koreas as the eu is sending firefighting planes to greece as the country attempts to tackle wildfires due to an extreme summer heatwave being felt across southern europe . british across southern europe. british houday across southern europe. british holiday destinations such as spain, italy and greece and parts of the balkans are being hit with very high temperatures . the greek prime minister is cutting short his trip to brussels to oversee government activity as the wildfire fires rage. smoke from the fires were so widespread they can be seen from space. the first british passports bearing the title of king charles iii, will start being issued this week. the post—brexit blue travel documents will say his britannic majesty. it's the first time since 1952 that they've been

issued under that title on tv onune issued under that title on tv online dab radio and the tune—in app online dab radio and the tune—in app . this is . app. this is. gb news. >> thank you, polly. yes. welcome to dewbs& co with me, emily carver. now joining me until seven is my wonderful panel until seven is my wonderful panel. i have ben habib, who is the ceo of the first property group a member of reform group and a member of reform party. and i have alan miller, the co—founder of together campaign group . so you're campaign group. so you're already getting in touch thick and fast about this abortion ruling about essentially this woman who had an abortion at about 32 to 34 weeks, a very late term abortion has been released from prison with a suspended sentence . we'll be suspended sentence. we'll be getting to that later on in the show. but please do keep your views coming in. but firstly, i want to and you can get in touch gbviews@gbnews.com or at gb news

on twitter . but firstly, the on twitter. but firstly, the home office has made a decision to temporarily relax visa rules to temporarily relax visa rules to enable more overseas builders and the like to come to britain to work. that means bricklayers, roofers, carpenter , plasterers roofers, carpenter, plasterers are all welcome after construction workers were deemed to be in short supply in the uk. this comes, of course, just weeks after net migration was recorded at record levels. so there's quite a lot to get stuck into here. i've had a look at the list of shortage occupations and it seems to be it seems to be a recruitment website. alan we've got shortages in absolutely everything by the looks of it from scientists to artists to ballet dancers to choreographers to welding. and now , now construction workers do now, now construction workers do you think when people voted for brexit, they thought that the government would continue to using migration to well solve our economic woes, be it labour shortages or anything else?

>> yeah. well i think that first and foremost, the vote for brexit was one of the most important democrat votes. and those that have tried to challenge it are being anti—democratic . i challenge it are being anti—democratic. i also challenge it are being anti—democratic . i also think anti—democratic. i also think that this is indicative of the problem we've got with this government and all opposition actually, that they don't have any ambition about what is really needed in terms of economic development, wealth creation and prosperity. we could a whole new could have a whole new generation of builders , generation of builders, engineers, investment in science, investment in development . we need millions of development. we need millions of new houses. we've got a terrible situation where young people can't afford them, and yet it seems incapable about working with the private sector and laying the foundation for those things. and instead it wants to re—engage with the importing of cheap labour. it's completely not the right approach , and i not the right approach, and i really think that it sort of reflects a bit of the bureaucratic and broken britain approach. >> i think so too. it's not what people voted for, is it? at all?

and the government seems to be ignonng and the government seems to be ignoring it again. it wasn't too long ago that philip hammond went on the airwaves to say that in order to bring down inflation, we need more migrants inflation, we need more migrants in order to make, well jobs, make recruitment more competitive. so therefore, wages are more competitive and therefore wages go down. so you have less inflation. so this is a policy choice, a very obvious clear policy choice to have more and more migration to fill these gaps and to potentially reduce wages. i didn't know , ben, and wages. i didn't know, ben, and i'm sure you did know this because you're very in the know, but i didn't know that the shortage occupation list, which is what these construction workers been added to, workers have now been added to, enables to hire enables employers to hire foreign staff on salaries at 80. the going rate. so presumably a lot of businesses will choose to hire from abroad first before even looking at british candidates . candidates. >> now, of course, because you've got a cheaper source of cheap, cheap labour, haven't you? and this is the problem with people like philip hammond.

they see economic prosperity through one lens alone. and that is where the gdp is going up or going down. and of course, if you're ever expanding the population, you get the false succour that that gdp is growing. but really what you're doing is creating a ponzi scheme, which eventually comes back to whack you around the head when you cease to grow through that immigration process, immigration only works to grow gdp for as long as you go on growing the population. the minute you stop, you face all the problems that alan identified side, which is a workforce that is incapable of deliver for the british nation. what the british people need an and we've had this, by the way, for decades. this is not a new debate . government has dealt debate. government has dealt with this ever since tony blair came to power. his approach to deaung came to power. his approach to dealing with the shortage of workers in the united kingdom was to open the floodgates to it, to immigration. absolutely

and as you rightly said, it's so nice to be on a panel, if i may say so, alan, with the fellow brexiteer, because normally the person sitting opposite me is sort anti the remainer , you sort of anti the remainer, you know, don't pay the remainer. and we didn't vote for that. and but we didn't vote for that. you know what? we voted for was domestic prosperity at the heart of brexit. that's what it's all about. and domestic prosperity comes from educating the workforce . acas having a vision workforce. acas having a vision for the british economy that turns using british workers turns on using british workers first, not giving advantages to employers to take on foreign workers . and i've got nothing workers. and i've got nothing against it's not a xenophobe comment, it's just that if you're a british citizen, it should mean something. it should entitle you and it should enable you to get jobs ahead of people who aren't british. >> yeah, i think most people would would agree with that. and that a huge part of the that was a huge part of the brexit vote. at the same brexit vote. alan at the same time as looking to time as we are looking to recruit more and more people from abroad, not just bricklayers, but all of these different occupations, options we according to statistics we have, according to statistics from the ons , 5.2 million people

from the ons, 5.2 million people full on out of work benefits. now of course that encompasses people who are seriously unwell , but clearly 5.2 million people in some cities in this country, you can have nearly 20% of people not working ing the sums don't add up, do they? it's just lazy from the government. >> i think we've got a number of problems here on the hand, problems here on the one hand, there has there's a situation where we don't pay enough wages so we don't pay enough wages because we don't make enough profits, because we don't make enough wealth, because don't enough wealth, because we don't allow companies fail. allow zombie companies to fail. we zombie companies. we prop up zombie companies. actually, the relative wage growth in the last three decades has been nominal and not good in the equivalent, even if you look at europe as partners, particularly germany and elsewhere, having elsewhere, we should be having a much more dynamic investor r&d. we should allow companies to fail, but then have retraining programmes. this is about approach that's interesting and ambition. >> say let companies >> when people say let companies fail, you know, people are ended

by the idea that you would allow a company to fail or that it deserves to fail if it's if it's not good enough. but that's how we get innovation, isn't it? one business model fails another p0ps up business model fails another pops up that's better or the same people come up with a different business model that's better indeed . better indeed. >> and so you have much >> and then so you have much more innovation. but then also we've problem, which is we've got a problem, which is that look at the benefits that if you look at the benefits and you look at pay and you look at people's situation, some people make calculations and they're better doing that they're better off doing that than working in certain situations . now, work should be situations. now, work should be about all sorts of things, but it should absolutely be able to pay you it should absolutely be able to pay you and in a modern industrial economy like ours, we should be in a position where all of our workers are earning great money. companies are doing really in the 70s in really well in the 70s in america on ford workshop , america on the ford workshop, people were getting great money. people had 1 or 2 cars in america, blue collar as well as middle class. they were getting swimming pools. the whole aspiration towards doing well is

now suffocated by limits . and now suffocated by limits. and also we've got this culture as well, which is become endemic and we need to transform it. but to do that, we've got to engage and inspire the public. we've got to have some good leadership. that's about leadership. and that's about wealth . it's a dirty wealth creation. it's a dirty word now. people limits and word now. people want limits and restrictions zero. and restrictions with net zero. and i feeds the debate i think it feeds into the debate that been having this week that we've been having this week over degree kyrees the worth of university degrees, whether there are mickey mouse degrees. >> the prime minister certainly thinks there that need to be thinks there are that need to be cut on, but lots of cut back on, but lots of children, teenagers going off to university who may well have been better off doing some of these manual trades which pay which pay very, very well do if you if you work hard, you can make a lot of money. >> but you know, alan makes a really good point. the labour market is broken. the gap between what you can get on benefits and the sort of median wage in the united kingdom is so close and i'm not talking about the lower paid paid workers. i'm talking about the media. an wage

is so close to what you can get on universal credit that frankly, you might as well sit at watch netflix and at home and watch netflix and that that for me by the way, is a much bigger problem than the massive debt that the country is carrying . because if you can't carrying. because if you can't get people into work , you can't get people into work, you can't grow the economy . if you can't grow the economy. if you can't grow the economy. if you can't grow the economy. if you can't grow the economy, you can never pay grow the economy, you can never pay off your debt. so when rishi sunak talks about growing the economy reducing debt, but economy and reducing debt, but controlling inflation, he's actually at sixes and sevens with himself because his approach to controlling inflation is killing the economy. he's doing more of what got this country into the problems. it's currently. they seem to have been. >> jeremy hunt and the prime minister seem to have very much. well fallen for the idea that you need to have almost a recession in order to bring down inflation, you do need to have less growth. but i'm going to segue very smoothly into illegal migration because, of course, big story of today is that controversial barge that is set

to accommodate 506 single men who are seeking asylum have travelled over here by the channel on a dinghy. travelled over here by the channel on a dinghy . and this channel on a dinghy. and this boat, this barge has arrived in dorset. so this has triggered protests. well, the people have arrived in dorset. i believe this has triggered mass protests from locals. they're very fearful of the impact the new arrivals will have the town's arrivals will have on the town's community. we know that the government needs somewhere to put these people. alan but we're also seeing just how much anger there is out there and i do wonder if the government understands just how palpable it is, how people are actually furious about being forced to accommodate people who they didn't ask to arrive . didn't ask to arrive. >> well, you see, this is you have to unpick this as well, because there's a number of problems. at the same time, i don't think the government, although it's got some intention to try and address things. i don't think it is actually engaged with the public and understands fully . i

understands the public fully. i don't think the opposition does ehheni don't think the opposition does either. i we've got we've either. i think we've got we've got number of technocrats that got a number of technocrats that say things but don't actually do action, we've got a problem action, and we've got a problem that's broken with the home office processing, with office with processing, with control borders and with control of our borders and with intention can have a very intention. you can have a very big about migration big discussion about migration and dynamic countries like and often dynamic countries like america, for instance , have america, for instance, have migration and they continue to create wealth. they the issue is all sorts of job barbs are thrown when people make this discussion, they say, you're racist or whatever, and you don't get down to the nitty gritty. i know portland quite well. i spent a lot of time in that area in dorset. i've got friends, i know people who have got companies and practise there. it's small community and we remember our coastal we should remember our coastal communities and our fishing communities. left communities. they have been left behind ways in terms of behind in many ways in terms of britain, and they're very concerned about the some concerned about the idea. some people males, people of particularly males, we're not talking about all families area the families coming to an area the bigger is how are we bigger question is how are we going to get control of things? that's the question. and then have democratic discussion that's the question. and then have the mocratic discussion that's the question. and then have the mocr.of: discussion that's the question. and then have the mocr.of numbers)n that's the question. and then have the mocr.of numbers we'd about the kind of numbers we'd want. of society.

want. and the kind of society. >> we don't anyone one, >> but we don't want anyone one, we don't want anyone, do we, alan, entering the country illegally? mean, that illegally? no one, i mean, that just stop. grant just has to stop. we had grant shapps news a second ago shapps on the news a second ago saying this fantastic bill, which is going to give us control of our borders. well he's not telling the truth, is he? a bill he? because it's not a bill about borders . we about controlling borders. we don't a bill to control our don't need a bill to control our borders. need political will borders. we need political will to control our borders. what this bill does, what this act does, because it's now an act ostensibly is allow the secretary of state, obliges the secretary of state, obliges the secretary of state to detain and deport people who enter the country illegally. that is not border control. that is dealing with the problem once it's landed on our shores . landed on our shores. >> yes, but ben, there is no appetite among our political establishment anyway to turn back the boats . no, no. but he's back the boats. no, no. but he's got to stop us. are they? no. >> well, the french are awful, but that's why we should challenge the french. let's have it he mustn't it out. you know, he mustn't talk border control and talk about border control and then a deportation then advocate a deportation policy. and i'm going to just tell you , going put it on

tell you, i'm going to put it on the. yeah. the illegal migration bill not work. bill will not work. >> it won't work first. it will not work. i like to be a little bit more optimistic. i think it's definitely a step in the right direction. but it's quite extraordinary that we have today seen 450 migrants cross the channel. that's according to our homeland security editor here at gb news 450. this barge would only house 500. so we really are as soon as we filled up one barge, we'll have, you know, the same again arrive the next day, particularly over these summer months. this really needs to we really need to get a grip on this. i do worry that we're going to see well, protests increase the number of protests increase the number of protests increase unrest increase that civil unrest increase that civil unrest increase because aren't increase because people aren't happy they feel taken happy with this. they feel taken advantage . but anyway, we'll advantage of. but anyway, we'll get to your views in just one moment. but coming up, risk of terrorism is rising, says the home secretary. as the government launched its government has launched its updated counter—terrorism strategy. in strategy. do you feel safe in the ? should we have more the uk? should we have more counter—terrorism laws . earlier

counter—terrorism laws. earlier on gb news radio show? >> well, i'm joined now by the conservative mp marco longhi. marco, thank you very much for entering the fray

me company this evening is ben habib, ceo of the first property group and member of the reform party, and alan miller, the co—founder of the together campaign group. now, you've been getting in touch with me about the government's decision to make it easier for foreign workers, particularly construction workers who have been added to the shortage occupation list, which is about as long as my arm, something is going very, very wrong indeed. when it comes to the management of our economy, perhaps it's too managed. maybe that's the issue, graham says. the gap in unskilled labour needs to be plugged bone, idle on plugged by the bone, idle on benefits, . forcing benefits, strong stuff. forcing those solves the those into work solves the labour problem cuts our labour problem and cuts our welfare i think part of welfare bill. i think part of the problem sometimes the problem is sometimes that people work pays people don't feel that work pays enough off, i'm sure ben enough off, which i'm sure ben would say we need to cut taxes to make it even more desirable. >> do have to work. we do. we

>> we do have to work. we do. we do indeed. >> and alex says the only reason we need to import more bricklayers is build houses bricklayers is to build houses because haven't a population because we haven't a population explosion caused by mass immigration. nuts. well, immigration. it's nuts. well, there it is bit of a there is that. it is a bit of a cycle, isn't it? you need people to build the houses and then you need more for the people need more houses for the people who've arrived and they say this is temporary temporary visas. who've arrived and they say this is iemporary temporary visas. who've arrived and they say this is i do oorary temporary visas. who've arrived and they say this is i do wonderzmporary visas. who've arrived and they say this is i do wonder whether visas. who've arrived and they say this is i do wonder whether they;. but i do wonder whether they will temporary. dave says will be temporary. dave says make mistakes. tories are make no mistakes. the tories are exactly same on the exactly the same on the importation of cheap labour as the the only the labour party. the only difference the reason, namely difference is the reason, namely that tories are hock to that the tories are in hock to big business who prefer the status it's cheaper and status quo as it's cheaper and easier alternative of easier then the alternative of training british people up. yes, i the labour party and the i think the labour party and the conservative party have different ideologies reasons for wanting to have mass migration , wanting to have mass migration, but they seem to both want it, or at least it's just the lazy option, the easy option to try and solve economic problems. but as ben said, gdp on paper looks good, but actually per capita, not so looks not so good. right? moving on, terrorism, the

government has launched its updated counter—terrorism strategy . the risk from strategy. the risk from terrorism is rising . according terrorism is rising. according to the home secretary, suella braverman . she's been warning of braverman. she's been warning of threats from russia , islamic threats from russia, islamic state, al—qaeda when we hear that the threat is rising, alan, when it comes to terrorism, there are often calls to well , there are often calls to well, raise the alert level, of course, but then also to come down harder, perhaps surveillance acas policies to crack down. what's your view? >> i think that intelligence is best done quietly , robustly , best done quietly, robustly, often. many of the things we don't seem to be able to do in the previous conversation in a really rigorous fashion. and instead my concerns with this and the report as well as done today one is that today are many fold. one is that there's discussion about how there's a discussion about how generally online and you mentioned surveillance, surveillance curtailment is surveillance and curtailment is being promoted. it seems to me there's a discussion about pathways into end to end encryption , a discussion about encryption, a discussion about cryptocurrencies . we've seen cryptocurrencies. we've seen

things like the online safety bill. we know that the more legal measures because there's a lack of political will to do things. so instead they pass ever more regulation like around protest there's enough laws protest when there's enough laws to people do it. now, to prevent people to do it. now, you will and you need the will and the commitment and suella braverman herself says that whilst what we're seeing, there's a decrease in threats from things like al—qaeda and isis , thankfully, al—qaeda and isis, thankfully, and the public very and we saw the public be very brave, we saw some brave, actually when we saw some of those attacks. and they should be absolutely recognised. i am very concerned, bit like i am very concerned, a bit like the war terror we the war on terror that we reorganise society. and we also keep telling those who would do things to us, we air our fears and concerns are at the comments today. she's also got people from hospitality in the night time industries. there's ever more security measures . they're more security measures. they're being around terror thing. >> one of your primary concerns is the impact on civil liberties, on our freedoms , on liberties, on our freedoms, on our day to day lives. that can be impacted by that crackdown on terror , that war on terror, terror, that war on terror, whatever you want to call it. ben, do you think there's a link

between this conversation and what talking about just what we were talking about just now porous borders ? now about our porous borders? absolutely. do you worry that that illegal migration, the fact that illegal migration, the fact that we don't process people crossing the channel, they're equipped gli, undocumented people . we don't know whether people. we don't know whether people. we don't know whether people may have bad intentions when they arrive in this country. and we've seen it play out on our streets. >> absolute. ali, if you've got 500 people coming into the country each day or more about whom you know, nothing coming from far flung parts of the earth who have value systems and religions and beliefs that are not compatible with ours, there's bound to be a threat from terrorism increasing . and i from terrorism increasing. and i think it was nigel on on his show revealed photographs of french beaches with young men making bad 3—3, one, three signs and then similar kind of looking men making badri 303 signs in london. badri 303 being the

taliban's sort of elite fighting force . and people can look it force. and people can look it up, you know, and if that if badn up, you know, and if that if badri 303 are making their way into the united kingdom because we've got a porous channel, well, we have a lot to answer for. and grant shapps and people who about border control who talk about border control need to start getting a grip. >> where does freedom of >> but where does freedom of expression, freedom of association station come into this ? i think the vast, vast this? i think the vast, vast majority of people in this country do not want the likes of anjum chaudhry , for example, who anjum chaudhry, for example, who i believe has is in trouble yet again today . they we don't want again today. they we don't want people that being to people like that being able to spout their hatred for the spout forth their hatred for the west and islamist ideals. but what in your view, if you're pro civil liberties, should they be allowed to? yeah, absolutely. >> everything should be allowed to be discussed. we've got. >> so think you could preach >> so you think you could preach on the of for london an on the streets of for london an islamic of the united islamic takeover of the united kingdom? >> there's already laws in place. you're advocating place. if you're advocating dating violence, it's free

speech, legal, free speech, which is about ideas and engaging with them. the freest societies have to be free, you have to have that as a first principle. one thing that we could do much more of that it seems , is not palatable is to be seems, is not palatable is to be encouraging and championing what our british values, enlightenment values in education, in our institutions. instead, we've got all sorts of things like edi and esg. we've got a disdain for the history of britain for the principles of the enlightenment, for values like freedom of speech and expression. we're told that that's offensive and people should be that is such a good point that you make there that that perhaps if the west was more confident in its values and said, you know what, we think our society is pretty brilliant i >> -- >> and anyone who's lucky enough to be born here or move here is well , lucky, then we'd stand to be born here or move here is well, lucky, then we'd stand in a much more strong position and perhaps people wouldn't buy into this ridiculous ideology such as

islamism and perhaps people wouldn't become far right. terrorists i mean, we actually we're not even neutral on the subject of our values, our heritage and our culture, where we are absolutely negative on it. >> you know, we talk about white privilege and the church teaches white privilege. we brandish winston churchill, the national hero, as a white supremacist, the saint paul's cathedral did that the other day. you know , if that the other day. you know, if the church of england is meant to represent traditional english values, it's not doing a very good job because it's going about trashing the very foundations of what it means to be, well, english. in the case of the church of england, there is that discussion to be had over whether you can have mass immigration of people from very different culture was without standing up for the culture that they are entering . they are entering. >> you can't have both at the same time. i just say on the adam chaudhry, because i did mention dam chaudhry, yes, mention arade dam chaudhry, yes, he arrested on he has been arrested on suspicion a terror offence.

suspicion of a terror offence. he is, of course, notorious he is, of course, the notorious hate been hate preacher. he's been arrested as part of a police investigation into suspected terrorism offences. i'm not sure how much more we know about that, but he of course has been in trouble many, many, many times as a lot of people would like to see him behind bars for life, or at least did. oh life, or at least they did. oh oh, i'm so sorry. we will come back that and we'll come back back to that and we'll come back to home as well, to your views at home as well, because you've been in because you've been getting in touch about islamist terror touch about the islamist terror risk well. i must also risk as well. i must say also that terrorism is on that far right terrorism is on the as well. but coming up, the rise as well. but coming up, a woman who was jailed for carrying abortion carrying out a late abortion will from prison. is will be released from prison. is that right ? that right? >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers. proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hi there. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office. with the gb news forecast. it's been a damp day once again across many central areas. the rain, though, does ease overnight with clear but there clear spells emerging, but there will be further showers arriving

on wednesday. we've had a feature move through during tuesday and that's pulling away into the north sea at the moment and taking its rain with it, although it will take a while for eastern parts of the uk to be clear of rain and showers elsewhere. lots of cloud remaining, but the clearest skies will be across scotland and northern ireland, albeit with a few showers into the northwest and temperatures where we get the clear skies dipping into low double figures mid into the low double figures mid to figures. a milder to high single figures. a milder night to come, in the night to come, though, in the south, or 16 celsius as we south, 15 or 16 celsius as we wake up on wednesday. and still a cloud around for a lot of cloud around for eastern central england, eastern and central england, east some showers. but east wales and some showers. but more widely the afternoon , more widely into the afternoon, we're going to see a mix of sunny spells and showers. the heaviest downpours be heaviest downpours will be across eastern england, central and the driest and eastern scotland. the driest weather towards in weather will be towards wales in the south—west 20 to possibly 23 celsius in the south, 1819 for scotland and northern ireland. fast forward to thursday and it's a bright start for many. a cool start to the day, but quite

quickly we'll see the cloud build and we'll see showers developing once again. this time, the heaviest downpours will be across central areas . a will be across central areas. a good chance of avoiding showers in some places and staying dry bannau fewer showers on friday before wetter weather arrives for the weekend . for the weekend. >> that warm feeling inside ed from boxt boilers is proud sponsors of weather on . gb news sponsors of weather on. gb news earlier on gb news. radio >> and

radio. >> welcome back to dewbs& co with me, emily carver. with me this hour is alan miller and ben habib. thank you very much indeed. habib. thank you very much indeed . so we're going to move indeed. so we're going to move on straight to our next discussion point. a woman jailed for illegally obtaining abortion tablets to end her pregnancy

dunng tablets to end her pregnancy during lockdown will released during lockdown will be released from prison after the court of appeal reduced her sentence. she was originally handed a 28 month sentence. if you remember, back in june , but this would be in june, but this would be reduced to a 14 month suspended sentence. now i think this is deeply controversial . all ben , deeply controversial. all ben, 32 to 34 weeks was when she illegally obtained the pills to have this late term abortion . have this late term abortion. what is your view on the decision from the court of appeal? >> well, at least it is a court of appeal. it's not a probationary body that's made the decision over the judicial process. but i am i can't see leaving aside the debate on the correct , you know, whether correct, you know, whether abortion should be allowed at all and what the maximum pregnancy you know, how many weeks pregnant you can be before you you know, you cease to be able to abort a child, leaving aside that emotional emotive

debate that i can't see the grounds on which the appeal judge reached this decision. it's not like there are any mental health issues cited and it seems curious to me that one of the judges said this is more about the need to be compassionate than to punish. and you know, prima facia if 24 weeks is the limit, which it is, and a child is illegally aborted after 24 weeks, that that is technically murder isn't it? >> that is a crime. >> yeah. that is a crime. and so i'm struggling to come to terms just from a legal perspective. i'm i'm struggling to come to terms with how they could reach this decision. well, it seems to me now one of the judges said that this woman, this 45 year old, had an exceptionally strong mitigation in this case. >> it says that the case calls for compassion, not punishment . for compassion, not punishment. and no useful purpose is served by detaining miss foster in

custody. that's what dame victoria sharp said . so this is victoria sharp said. so this is very much about feel feelings, isn't it, alan? we should feel compassion for this woman, who, in my view , has murdered an in my view, has murdered an unborn child at such a late stage that it is. i'm sorry, but it really be a crime. >> so i think the thing about these things, when they're really on the edges of things, they really encapsulate the most intense feelings. and as they should . and i think that you should. and i think that you know, this law that has been utilised is from 1861 of victorian law. the crime against the persons act, which was mitigate somewhat in the 67 abortion act, but not this particular clause. and many people who are campaigning for from the point of view of the rights of women to control her own body. if that's your perspective , never went full perspective, never went the full way to argue that because they didn't want to have the difficult with people difficult arguments with people who you should who may think that you should never and there was never do it. and there was a kind fudge in the middle. and kind of fudge in the middle. and this highlighted thing this has highlighted the thing i

think things you could say think a few things you could say about this. one thing you can say that crime and say is that crime and punishment, punishment for society what society in terms of what it means. this woman, means. well i think this woman, carla , has been punished carla foster, has been punished adequately. significant both from view her from the point of view of her own experience. i have no understanding about why someone chooses at weeks to do chooses at 33 weeks to do something like this . she's a something like this. but she's a mother she hasn't seen mother of three. she hasn't seen the children. the three children. >> all that. and is >> i accept all that. and it is deeply tragic i agree with deeply tragic and i agree with the judge that what purpose does it serve to have her it serve society to have her continually locked up? >> i think judge also >> but i think the judge also made first judge made a very made the first judge made a very important comment, is when important comment, which is when people in the medical establishment otherwise are criticising they should establishment otherwise are critiinvolved they should establishment otherwise are critiinvolved to they should establishment otherwise are critiinvolved to change ould establishment otherwise are critiinvolved to change oulclaw get involved to change the law if like it. and if they don't like it. and i think therein lies the point that we need to have a big discussion in society about this. in our this. for some people in our campaigning abolish this as a campaigning to abolish this as a law, others will feel very strongly against and we need strongly against it and we need to discuss it, not name to robustly discuss it, not name call, to one another call, but listen to one another and then should be and argue and then it should be incumbent us make incumbent on us to make a decision with majority and decision with the majority and see where that lands. >> it very difficult one, >> is it very difficult one, ben? actually , i don't

ben? well, actually, i don't think that difficult. think it's that difficult. i think it's that difficult. i think she committed a crime and had that baby been born and she decided to kill it at 34 weeks, it would have been murder. i'm not sure a woman that i see not sure as a woman that i see that much of a difference . that much of a difference. >> no, i mean, 34 weeks is virtually term, isn't it? yes. >> many, many babies have been born at that stage and earlier . born at that stage and earlier. >> and i think if there's a viable child child, it is passes the common sense test, isn't it, that this is a murder and i can't see the compassion on at grounds on which you would release the mother on a suspended sentence . i just suspended sentence. i just i can't. interesting >> because people have been not being there are people not getting arrested for burglaries, for attacks, for all sorts of things. people they do rape and murder. and we're seeing the kind of lack of that doesn't justify this. i'm not doing a whataboutery. but i'm also saying saying this, there's lots of you'd make that of you'd have to make that argument right across the board.

your about term. your argument about the term. i think thing is, in the end, think the thing is, in the end, some about some people decide it's about the right of a woman to choose over own body. and it is over her own body. and it is very late and there is a discussion and there that discussion and there is that really because at really critical one because at any point we use technology or we do something to make a decision, it has an impact it on what you call potential what you would call potential life and i think that this extreme example all is tricky one, because there always when you use extreme and then make a legalistic this is really a moral argument and it's a political one. and i think the decision one makes is do you fall on the side of saying, i believe that it should be as soon as possible and late as necessary? some people think it should all, of should never happen at all, of course. and it should be course. right. and it should be in ability of a woman to in the ability of a woman to decide happens own decide what happens to her own body. decide what happens to her own body . or do you say that the body. or do you say that the state or to doctors often they've some more they've been men some more recently women able own they've been men some more recenanymore,1 able own they've been men some more recen anymore, though?a own body anymore, though? >> it because she is she's >> is it because she is she's got a bible. she's providing a home to a viable child. but it's interesting because this is very much dawn's much divided you at home. dawn's written in. says, i am

written in. she says, i am pro—life, but i am pleased she is released. judge was wrong to sentence her imprisonment. sentence her to imprisonment. clearly something clearly there was something wrong empathy and wrong requiring empathy and understanding . but does that understanding. but does that change? is that how the law should be applied in these circumstances? this woman had been pregnant three times before law, i believe . so she knows she law, i believe. so she knows she knew that she was pregnant. she knew that she was pregnant. she knew how goes . says i'm knew how it goes. says i'm assuming because we saw that evidence was that she'd been looking for a long time looking this up for a long time online, seeing what the law is, seeing how to get these abortion pills late term. she didn't pills late term. so she didn't know what she was doing. but again, some a lot has been made of the fact that this happened dunng of the fact that this happened during when perhaps during lockdown when perhaps things as easy they things weren't as easy as they should been and she didn't should have been and she didn't have support it's have enough support there. it's a complicated please do a complicated one. please do keep views coming in. but keep your views coming in. but coming the bbc coming up, as the bbc director—general is grilled in parliament today , some half a parliament today, some half a million people are opting out of paying million people are opting out of paying the bbc licence fee. well half more anyway. is half a million more anyway. is this of the road for the this the end of the road for the corporation .

thank you for emailing in about this abortion case. ben has said. he says this woman committed murder, plain and simple. she knew she had past her time for termination and the baby could not fight her decision. i agree there may well have been mental issues at play here, but we as a nation here, but do we as a nation condone this behaviour? but derek different view. derek takes a different view. derek, say she never derek, you say she should never have sent prison. have been sent to prison. a shorter suspended sentence was always one. another always the correct one. another example insanity, no example of lockdown insanity, no doubt we will be living with this forever . the judge clearly this forever. the judge clearly had his or her own religious and moral bias, too. and there is the divide there playing out in my inbox. that's how the debate goes on this one. it's very, very difficult, very controversial. but you know where i stand by now . but where i stand by now. but anyway, moving on, the bbc director—general tim davie, has been grilled today by the

parliamentary committee over the broadcaster's leadership. it comes as the bbc's annual report published last week revealed that the number of people opting to buy licence fallen to buy a licence fee had fallen by a million, which is by half a million, which is really quite significant . but really quite significant. but could be game over for the could this be game over for the bbc? alan bbc having a bit of a tough , tough ride at the moment. tough, tough ride at the moment. lots going on, of course, lots of questions to be answered about how they dealt with the allegations against huw edwards one of their top presenters. we've also got 500,000 fewer people opting to pay the licence . do you think there's just going to be a natural drift away from the bbc and therefore less money and therefore it just has to, you know, adapt it and cut some of its programming even more so? well, i think slow death . death. >> i'm not sure. i mean, i think that a few things. i think that there was a time and i've been a big of some of the parts of big fan of some of the parts of the bbc and we've trained the bbc and that we've trained brilliant technicians and they've world they've gone around the world after working years here. after working many years here. the department, the the art department, some of the history stuff. i think the

problem now is that the bbc in many areas has become so ideological that many areas has become so id can gical that many areas has become so id can be al that many areas has become so id can be a that many areas has become so id can be a broadcaster that many areas has become so id can be a broadcaster for1at many areas has become so id can be a broadcaster for the it can be a broadcaster for the nation, for everyone is riven with we've seen it with problems. we've seen it dunng with problems. we've seen it during long covid and the lockdowns . we've seen a very lockdowns. we've seen a very partisan approach. we've seen it more recently, even with things like protests against ulez, where were calling where the bbc were calling people far right and just throwing smears out. and i think that we've seen it around the discussion around the climate, which an objective, calm, which is not an objective, calm, reasonable it's reasonable one, but it's one that's de—man and that's very parties de—man and positioned . particularly in positioned. so particularly in that context, the recent coverage of the weather in europe has been it's been outrageous and it's got the behavioural insights team working with others like sky and the to , bbc to catastrophize the the to, bbc to catastrophize the weather and to induce fear to reinforce net zero. and so i think the thing is that many young people are now consuming media in very different ways, as we know. we know that the pay subscription model works and i think there's a very compelling argument say, let's put argument now to say, let's put it to the people. and many would not want to do it. and frankly ,

not want to do it. and frankly, you've be able to perform you've got to be able to perform in they're doing it in a world. they're doing it partly internationally, partly already internationally, but benefit of but they have the benefit of being by the british being subsidised by the british public. being subsidised by the british pubuc.so being subsidised by the british public. so i'd say , yeah, many public. so i'd say, yeah, many people i put it to the people. i think the vote now would go not to continue it . to continue it. >> do you think just the idea of a state publicly funded broadcaster it's quite odd, isn't it? antiquated? >> it is a bit. it's quite odd in a modern democracy that you have a state funded broadcaster . yeah. and i think that's the heart of the issue here. when the bbc was first established, there was a real need for it. you know, technology was nascent. it needed support, you needed government , government needed government, government hand up to get it anyone to broadcast . but my i've got broadcast. but my i've got a very simple approach. you know, we can debate about the biases of the bbc. it's an ability to control its members of staff and so on. but my approach is very simple. would we miss the bbc if it to exist tomorrow? and it ceased to exist tomorrow? and i don't think we would. we

wouldn't blink. we'd just go on and sky. if that's and we'd watch sky. or if that's your disposition, an or gb news or any one of the other many channels available for news and entertainment and so i can't make a case. as for establishing a state broadcaster funded by the people on an obligatory bafis the people on an obligatory basis , and i would abolish this basis, and i would abolish this fee instantly. it's 2.5 billion a year, roughly. >> it wasn't it was what it was last week or the week before. things happened so quickly. we saw the list of the highest paid presenters, gary lineker, of course, topping the list with over 1,000,000 million, 100,000, something like that a year. i mean , surely for gary, it's mean, surely for gary, it's a privilege to work from the bbc. you should turn down such a such a massive offer, such a massive salary . it is crazy that we are salary. it is crazy that we are paying salary. it is crazy that we are paying this much for talent and, you know, for the entirety of the thing. it really is very bureaucratic as well. they have for a show like this, let's say they would have a lot more

staff. >> yeah , indeed. and also one of >> yeah, indeed. and also one of the big problems is that i mean, so, you know, gary could get much more if he went into the commercial world and i'd say make it commercial all in the past, the bbc also past, the bbc has also underwritten important underwritten is an important point diligence, point about diligence, though journalists and journalists standards and investigative journalists standards and investighade journalists standards and investighad the money and the they've had the money and the time to historically in time to invest. historically in the 70s and 80s and some of the 90s in factual , in rigorous 90s in factual, in rigorous journalistic standards of investigating really tricky issues over a long period of time, which has got to now in the rush to have celebs, city elements and in the rush to go away from that and have immediacy and have reality tv, they have become a victim of their own situation. i can't see their own situation. i can't see the purpose for it. >> i think that's absolutely right. and richard says, i don't want to pay the likes of mr lineker's salaries. no way. or the director general. strong staff there from richard. keep watching news alan says if watching gb news alan says if the bbc wishes to save money, it should stop spending millions to

cover live sport . and lesley cover live sport. and lesley says, i think it's the fact that the presenters are receiving obscene amounts of money for a few of work. well, there few hours of work. well, there we go . strong views from you, as we go. strong views from you, as always at home. this has been a fantastic show . thank you to my fantastic show. thank you to my wonderful panel. ben habib and alan covered alan miller. we've covered everything illegal everything from illegal migration migration to migration to legal migration to counter—terrorism and to the bbc, of course, and that abortion case. thank you very much indeed for your time. michelle dewberry will be back soon, but for now it is nigel farage. >> the temperature's rising on boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hi there. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office. with the gb news forecast. it's been a damp day once again across many central areas. the rain, though, does ease overnight with clear spells emerging, but there will be further showers arriving on wednesday. we've had a feature move through during tuesday that's pulling away into the north sea at the moment and

taking its rain with it, although it will take a while for eastern parts of the uk to be clear of rain and showers elsewhere . lots of cloud elsewhere. lots of cloud remaining, but the clearest skies will be across scotland and northern ireland, albeit with a few showers into the northwest at and temperatures where we get the clear skies dipping into double dipping into the low double figures. mid high single figures. mid to high single figures. mid to high single figures. milder night come, figures. a milder night to come, though, the south, 15 16 though, in the south, 15 or 16 celsius we wake up on celsius as we wake up on wednesday. still a lot of wednesday. and still a lot of cloud for eastern and cloud around for eastern and central east wales and central england, east wales and some showers. but more widely into afternoon , we're going into the afternoon, we're going to see a mix of sunny spells and showers. heaviest downpours showers. the heaviest downpours will be across eastern england, central scotland and central and eastern scotland and the weather will be the driest weather will be towards in the south—west, towards wales in the south—west, 20 to possibly 23 celsius in the south 1819 for scotland and northern ireland. fast forward to thursday and it's a bright start for many. a cool start to the day. but quite quickly we'll see the cloud build and we'll see the cloud build and we'll see showers developing once again. this time, the heaviest downpours will be across central areas . a good of avoiding

areas. a good chance of avoiding showers in some places and staying dry and fewer showers on friday before wetter weather arrives for the weekend . arrives for the weekend. >> the temperatures rising . boxt >> the temperatures rising. boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on .

gb news. well. good evening . good evening. >> tonight i'll be showing you the coots files. yes, i told you last night i'd received them back. they are full of malice and full of prejudice. and i'll be asking the question. could you be next? but before all of that, let's get the news with polly middlehurst nigel thank