gb news. >> good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey show. there's no slacking on this channel. we're to going be going through the whole of the summer. even parliament is in even though parliament is in recess bring you the latest recess to bring you the latest political stories. of course, today we're to have a lot today we're going to have a lot of set of today we're going to have a lot of elections set of today we're going to have a lot of elections . set of today we're going to have a lot of elections . a set of today we're going to have a lot of elections . a little set of today we're going to have a lot of elections . a little bit set of by elections. a little bit surprising, actually, compared to where we thought we were last week. going to be speaking week. i'm going to be speaking to rees—mogg after to sirjacob rees—mogg after that by—election defeat in the seat door, does fear seat next door, does he fear losing his seat to the lib dems at the general election? james schneider is to also be schneider is going to also be joining me. that's jeremy corbyn's former communications

director, despite that director, because despite that record in selby for labour, record win in selby for labour, infighting has once again broken out after they failed to win uxbridge. there's also this huge debate now about the ulez . i'm debate now about the ulez. i'm going to be speaking to the lib dems, christine jardine they dems, christine jardine to they had win in somerton had this huge win in somerton and frome, but what is that going to translate into more seats at the next election or is it just a protest vote to the lib dems? and i'm to going be speaking to the planning minister, after minister, lee rowley, after those defeats those bruising, bruising defeats for what the for the tories, what has the government say for government got to say for itself? intrigued to itself? will be intrigued to hear let's to hear from him. now let's go to the front and run you the front pages and run you through very quickly. front through them very quickly. front of telegraph got of the telegraph has got a interview with michael gove. net zero can't become a crusade , he zero can't become a crusade, he says in the sunday times. they focus more on the labour story. can't a rethink ulez after call with starmer, they say the observer again goes with labour, sunak and starmer are warned don't dump your green pledges. the mail on sunday's got an

interesting story about a documentary that's been made about boris johnson. vile film claimed boris lied about nearly dying from covid and the sunday express goes with that story that my fellow presenter nigel farge has been talking about all week. pm says he will shut woke banks as the sun on sunday goes to something completely different. patsy loves split about patsy kensit and then we have on the sunday mirror tory toff serves fun flower on pic of cameron. this is the suggestion that a tory has been snorting cocaine off a portrait or a picture of david cameron, would you believe? now let me bring in nicholas owen now former bbc news presenter to go through the papers with me . it's very papers with me. it's very interesting, isn't it, in terms of ulez and indeed the by—election, very much dominating the news agenda. nicholas you'd expect that, but actually if they hadn't won in uxbndge actually if they hadn't won in uxbridge or retained uxbridge, the tories, actually the sunday papers would be quite boring. they were added a new dilemma. absolutely. and we're talking

absolutely. and so we're talking about a ulez u—turn. the about perhaps a ulez u—turn. the sunday front page talking sunday times front page talking about rethink ulez about khan to rethink ulez sunday telegraph. we've had another u—turn from michael gove, wasn't he? the environment secretary that was pushing all these policies? very these policies? nick he was very much under theresa may much so under theresa may remember a previous prime minister, but how many? >> i can't quite remember. yeah. two, three to or 3. yes. yes two, three to 2 or 3. yes. yes indeed. he was very much the apostle , if you like, the man apostle, if you like, the man who said by 2050 we have to be net zero. that was what he said. and he kept on saying it. now suddenly talking about not suddenly he's talking about not turning this whole thing into a religious does that turning this whole thing into a religicto does that turning this whole thing into a religicto abandoning 1at turning this whole thing into a religicto abandoning such mean to say abandoning such targets? interesting me. you targets? interesting to me. you know that michael there was know that michael gove there was this i'm sure i read i didn't dream this somewhere that he if in the event of a labour victory at the next election not to be taken for granted of course. but if sir keir starmer does become our prime minister, he , he and our prime minister, he, he and michael gove might saucy a bit more eye to eye, and gove might become some sort of labour

adviser or something like that. pensh adviser or something like that. perish the thought. imagine >> can you imagine? >> can you imagine? >> but it is interesting that that michael gove is willing to come out now and say, oh, hang on, let's just stop and think about this. and in the background of course, is ulez the great argument in london? i mean, this this this is really that's what turned the uxbridge by—election, of course, on its head and could do in other parts of the country as well. >> mean did you think that >> i mean did you think that that kind of revolt that was a kind of revolt against khan? does it say much about for them to about the tories for them to just seat 400? just retain that seat by 400? rishi sunak has gone down there and said this means that we can't make any predictions for the general election. but it was still a pretty dire picture for the conservatives. >> a very close run >> it was a very close run thing, it? really? very, thing, wasn't it? really? very, very thing. the word very close run thing. the word now is that sunak going to now is that sunak is going to spend spend, the summer spend the spend, the summer energising party, sticking energising the party, sticking to his five main principles and all this sort of thing and whipping line and whipping people into line and well, people into line, you know, make sure the tories know, just make sure the tories are of speaking one are sort of speaking with one voice comes to the voice when it comes to the

actual election campaign. the election be about 12 election could be just about 12 months at most. one would months away at most. one would have it's going to be >> i think it's going to be autumn 2024. there a report autumn 2024. there was a report in week to suggest it might in the week to suggest it might be spring 2024, but that could be spring 2024, but that could be foolhardy because aren't the conservatives waiting to make a bit more economic capital? they want come right bit more economic capital? they want they come right bit more economic capital? they want they want come right bit more economic capital? they want they want people ght bit more economic capital? they want they want people tot bit more economic capital? they want they want people to feel down. they want people to feel that more money in that they've got more money in their that's their pockets and that's probably happen probably more likely to happen next will next spring. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. i mean, it seems to me to be desperate timetable involved here timetable that's involved here and in the background. something didn't get too much of didn't seem to get too much of a mention. the extraordinarily large number of conservative mps who've already said they're not going to stand for various reasons. they're to reasons. no, they're going to be beaten want to do beaten or just don't want to do it anymore there's awful it anymore. so there's an awful lot things going wrong for lot of things going wrong for the tories, but really going wrong for them. i or 2 small things that are not going quite so wrong. a piece in the sunday times, peter kellner, a very respected figure, lost, lost tories key to 40 seats and he's making this point that the pm can woo these voters back.

>> they haven't switched to labour like they did in 1997 when you had tories already speaking about tony blair and this new revolution. they haven't decided on anything. they don't even know if they're decided that they're going to turn out whenever the next general election. >> that's one the >> well, that's one of the things, particularly selby things, particularly the selby by—election, absence by—election, it was the absence of voter. that was the of tory voter. that was the interesting the interesting thing. and the people just away people who just stayed away completely take the completely. so if you take the stowaways you take those who stowaways and you take those who really don't say they they don't know you those two know yet. you put those two figures there's a figures together. there's a glimmer of hope for the conservatives >> kelner reckons that there are 40 seats the undecideds 40 seats where the undecideds are majority of are probably the majority of you. and therefore, when we look at any of this polling, if we're not including the knows, not including the don't knows, then distorting the picture then it's distorting the picture of far labour ahead . of how far labour are ahead. starmer doesn't to have starmer doesn't seem to have captured hearts minds. captured hearts and minds. nicholas doesn't . nicholas no, he doesn't. >> and does have this problem >> and he does have this problem now, the now, particularly that the london situation . sadiq khan, now, particularly that the lon mayoruation . sadiq khan, now, particularly that the lon mayor of:ion . sadiq khan, now, particularly that the lon mayor of london,qu khan, now, particularly that the lon mayor of london, said han, now, particularly that the lon mayor of london, said to 1, now, particularly that the lon mayor of london, said to be the mayor of london, said to be reconsidering, said to be reconsidering, said to be reconsider ordering the extension of ulez so weak. >> i mean i think sadiq khan is

a man not without ego. is he going to start caving in to starmer? what's your instinct on that? it will it that? well i think it will it will come down to whether starmer can really wield the authority within the labour party to insist that there be at least that they could delay it, couldn't they ? couldn't they? >> that they could go go for a further consultation if. well yes, but if you delay it long enough, delay it long enough and say yes, we're really giving this consideration, perhaps the old long grass might just come in handy for starmer. >> let's just have a very quick look at summer strategies look at the summer strategies that sides are to going that both sides are to going deploy. hand, the deploy. so on one hand, the telegraph is reporting that there's be true blue there's going to be true blue boot to save tories soul . boot camps to save tories soul. they're the sun they're also saying in the sun gloves are sunak on attack gloves are off sunak on attack in battle number do you in battle for number 10. do you think people pay much to think people pay much notice to what either party are doing in the summer? >> well, goes to what i >> well, it goes back to what i said at the beginning about the shortage of time. really. i mean, these months to mean, these months are going to fly very, quickly. fly by very, very quickly. i think there's no doubt that if in rishi sunaks position, he's

got to get this thing sorted out, he's got to really show toughness. now. i mean, i think there's this view of rishi sunak that he somehow now a good man in many ways, you know, and hard working, working all working, hard working and all the things. but is he the other things. but is he really tough and ruthless enough to really and sort of rip the to really go and sort of rip the heart out of what labour ruthlessly towards boris johnson? >> so yes, in him maybe that's can he unleash it. yeah. let's i'm to going i want to ask you about the bbc row involving my colleague and our colleague sometime, nigel farage and the banking situation. simon jack, the correspondent that reported this story, the business editor , he'd been kind of disbanded from cootes, banned by cootes because he didn't have sufficient funds . he did the sufficient funds. he did the subject access request found out it was actually because of his political views. simon jack, still refusing to apologise. i mean, i find that quite astonishing because as a journalist, you get wrong, journalist, if you get it wrong, you have say mea culpa. absolutely. >> i mean, the deer old the broken biscuit company we have i have i used that word before.

you're describing it. i when i worked at the bbc, i loved them dearly. i but i did call them the broken biscuit company because way the way because the way the way the way it run or rather, rather it is run or rather, rather inefficiently run. this is another classic example we had with the whole terrible huw edwards saga. most of the so much of the blame there is the bbc's reaction to things, how it gets on with things. this is a classic, another classic to me. as soon as it was evident. let's be honest. simon jack is a jolly good journalist, jolly good at his job, and he sits next to a banker gives him line on banker who gives him a line on the farage story. well, of the nigel farage story. well, of course, he's going to go with that. a jolly good source. that. it's a jolly good source. but source turns out to but if that source turns out to be , the are simply be wrong, the facts are simply the round . as nigel the other way round. as nigel himself has now discovered in great detail. for goodness great detail. then, for goodness sake, just put hands up and sake, just put your hands up and say, can't the bbc handle say, why can't the bbc handle any of these crises well? and say, why can't the bbc handle any (simon? crises well? and say, why can't the bbc handle any (simon? come well? and say, why can't the bbc handle any (simon? come on, l? and say, why can't the bbc handle any (simon? come on, lad. 1d say, why can't the bbc handle any (simon? come on, lad. just why, simon? come on, lad. just just got that wrong? just say sorry. got that wrong? yes turns that my source yes it turns out that my source was, you know, trying to cover something up, which is what it looks like, doesn't it? and that

in is you puts you in itself is you know, puts you at heart of a jolly good at the heart of a jolly good story. shows you have jolly good instincts. sometimes those instincts. sometimes those instincts be instincts are proved to be wrong. there say it, wrong. go out there and say it, admit and get on it. admit it, and get on with it. but the it moves so slow, but the bbc it moves so slow, the broken biscuits, biscuits. >> it's . it's the broken biscuits, biscuits. >> it's. it'sjust the broken biscuits, biscuits. >> it's . it's just not the broken biscuits, biscuits. >> it's. it'sjust not i don't >> it's. it's just not i don't know the comms reaction to a lot of the stories we haven't had a newspaper review in the last 6 to 8 weeks, probably beyond that hasn't featured one bbc crisis or another . it's just hasn't featured one bbc crisis or another. it's just a extraordinary very , very quick extraordinary very, very quick word on what i'm calling the great fat britons of the day story. sunday times, green man slows down to help unfit pedestrians keep up. come on now . well, yes, we get enough time to cross the road. apparently people are now too obese to get across the road. >> well, it is two things. let's be this. it's not be clear about this. it's not only get 6.5 seconds, i think, and they want to it 7.1 and they want to make it 7.1 seconds or 20% increase in the green man so that you can get across. but i'm afraid not across. but i'm afraid it's not just because apparently we have a population which and a population which is obese and getting unfit can't cross

getting unfit and can't cross the it's also for elderly the road. it's also for elderly folk. they're more and more of us around we find it a us around and we find it a struggle, necessarily the struggle, not necessarily the fattest. exactly. fattest. no, exactly. exactly. >> say that >> i'm allowed to say that anymore. probably not. >> no, i don't think are. >> no, i don't think you are. but what gets my goat? but you know what gets my goat? it's fact that everybody it's the fact that everybody young whatever are young, old, whatever they are now, everybody under the now, almost everybody under the age about 50, always walk up age of about 50, always walk up to traffic lights, always to the traffic lights, always press the button. whether there's around not. there's traffic around or not. and i think this sort of we and that i think this sort of we can't be trusted to sort of mind our own way crossing the road on steroids, perhaps. >> yes. yes. nicholas owen as even an >> yes. yes. nicholas owen as ever, an absolute ever, it's been an absolute pleasure. afraid our time is pleasure. i'm afraid our time is up together. thank you very up together. but thank you very much coming in on this much for coming in on this sunday. >> t�*- w- >> passed so fast. >> passed so fast. >> it always does. it always >> passed so fast. >> it it ways does. it always >> passed so fast. >> it it always>es. it always >> passed so fast. >> it it always does. always >> passed so fast. >> it it always does. now,'s >> passed so fast. >> it it always does. now, the does. it always does. now, the people's is in the perfect people's panel is in the perfect location week we've location this week because we've gone selby ainsty after gone to selby and ainsty after that for the tories. that big loss for the tories. catherine forster there. catherine forster is there. catherine forster is there. catherine delighted to see you in selby . what questions of your in selby. what questions of your panellists got our guests panellists got for our guests today ? today? >> yes, good morning, camilla from selby in yorkshire , god's from selby in yorkshire, god's own county. >> well, i am from yorkshire, i

would say that, but of course this is the site of that massive labour win on friday when they overturned a 20,000 majority electing the youngest mp, aged just 25. let's talk now to you, helen, who is the manager of the hub. helen, thank you very much indeed for having us today. how's business at the moment? >> really good. sorry. yeah, good loyal customers that keep us going. keep the doors open. >> that's good to hear. and i know you make all your own cakes so i'd be sampling those later. let's talk now to our panel. well, thank you very much, gentlemen, for talking to us today. gentlemen, for talking to us today . and carl, if i can come today. and carl, if i can come today. and carl, if i can come to you first. you're an accountant. you live about 20 minutes out of the centre of selby constituency . selby in this constituency. you've always been a conservative voter, but you didn't vote conservative on thursday. tell us why. >> no, i didn't really. i'm just disenchanted with them. you know, everything they announce is just just waffle. they never seem to get anything you

seem to get anything done. you know , they're supposed to be know, they're supposed to be getting immigration. it getting tough on immigration. it never so it was never happens. and so it was a bit protest vote, really. bit of a protest vote, really. i voted for reform. >> and would you do that in the general election? that's coming up. >> well, they've got 12 months to finger out, but to pull the finger out, but really would not really but probably i would not vote for not vote what vote for not vote for what labour to in. so i would labour to get in. so i would vote for the conservatives probably if it was a general election. >> people do vote differently, don't elections. and don't they? in by elections. and let's now to you, david. let's talk now to you, david. you a conservative you were a conservative councillor on selby district council for eight years. you're a local business owner there. you didn't vote conservative ehhen you didn't vote conservative either, did you? >> no, i agree . really what karl >> no, i agree. really what karl said, you know, i just couldn't bnng said, you know, i just couldn't bring myself to vote for him. i think they've let themselves down badly, particularly in the last 12 months. if there's going to be a national election, probably in a year's time, they need impress more in the need to impress me more in the next 12 months. you know , if next 12 months. you know, if not, i think they'll lose. but i can't bring myself to vote. labour >> oh, but you were impressed with a candidate, weren't you?

he was very present. >> i was very, very impressed. yeah i attended 1 or 2 functions in the last sort of month and he turned up to most. i felt the labour campaign was very strong. yeah so i was impressed with that, but i still wouldn't vote for him. >> yeah, it's estimated that about 20,000 conservative voters basically sat at home, isn't it? and. and you two were or part of the people that didn't vote conservative and karl, we were talking a bit about taxes and business. you're an accountant. you've got a question for the politicians on today . politicians on today. >> i have, yeah. i'd like to know when they're going to start looking to bring taxes down and encourage people to work. many business owners can't get staff because incentive for because there's no incentive for people work anymore and they people to work anymore and they just keep taxes up all just keep putting taxes up all the you know, stealth the time. you know, stealth taxes to taxes and backhanded taxes to keep people keep it quiet from people because they don't want that publicity. it's gone publicity. but it's just gone too now they need to too far now and they need to start sorting that out. >> dave, we were talking >> and dave, we were talking a

bit transport and you've bit about transport and you've got a question for the politicians coming today. got a question for the poliicians coming today. got a question for the poll have coming today. got a question for the poll have indeed. today. got a question for the poll have indeed. yeah)day. got a question for the poll have indeed. yeah wei. got a question for the poll have indeed. yeah we were >> i have indeed. yeah we were promised the earth with hs2, particularly for the north. you know, bringing the north south, levelling up. now we're here that the south will get their section, but it could be shelved in the north and to me, you know, it was more important for the north and the south, in my opinion . yes. opinion. yes. >> i mean, borisjohnson got >> i mean, boris johnson got that 80 seat majority, didn't he? largely on promising to level up the country. do you feel that there's much evidence of levelling up ? of levelling up? >> no, not what i've seen. and as i say, as you've said, i was eight years on selby district council. well, we did get a little bit, but we didn't get what i thought we would get. and i think, you know, a promise is what i thought we would get. and i promiseu know, a promise is what i thought we would get. and i promise and ow, a promise is what i thought we would get. and i promise and it's a promise is what i thought we would get. and i promise and it's not'omise is what i thought we would get. and i promise and it's not happened, a promise and it's not happened, unfortunately. and i think that's one of the downfalls of the conservative party. they had a great opportunity of connecting to the north and getting those valuable votes again. but that won't happen .

again. but that won't happen. i'm sorry. >> yeah. so what happened to levelling up for the north? camilla specifically , we camilla specifically, we transport that yorkshire link of hs2 transport that yorkshire link of hsz that transport that yorkshire link of hs2 that promised high speed rail from hull to liverpool . hs2 that promised high speed rail from hull to liverpool. i'm interested to hear what the politicians have to say. >> catherine, david and carl, thank you very much indeed. i'll try and put those questions to the minister i have on later and inindeed the minister i have on later and in indeed rees—mogg is in indeed jacob rees—mogg is coming in just a minute. coming up in just a minute. don't forget, if you want to apply to the people's panel, it's slash it's gbnews.com forward slash panel. it's gbnews.com forward slash panel . now, that sir panel. now, i hope that sir jacob rees—mogg , former cabinet jacob rees—mogg, former cabinet minister mp for minister and the tory mp for nonh minister and the tory mp for north somerset, and my north east somerset, and my fellow gb news presenter joins me jake webb. good morning. me now. jake webb. good morning. lovely to see you on the sabbath. now let's talk about this 30% swing in your neighbouring seats, somerton and frome . you must be worried frome. you must be worried you're going to lose your seat. jacob what's your majority? these after boundary these days? after the boundary review about 16,000. you're on the borderline here. yes. that >> that's right . the borderline here. yes. that >> that's right. i think there's a very interesting, important

piece in the sunday times by peter kellner, which looks at turnouts in the by elections. we've just had and turnouts in by elections 92 to 97. if you look at the lib dem vote in somerton and frome, it's actually lower than they achieved in any election from 1997 to 2010. in 2010, they peaked at 28,000 and they got 21,000in this election. the turnout at 92 and 97 averaged 70 ish% here it was about 45, yes. and it does seem as if tories just stayed at home. now, can we persuade tories to go out to vote in the next general election? and here i think uxbndge election? and here i think uxbridge is really interesting and important because if we get rid of things like ulez which have popped up across the country and we show we're on the side of the british voter, we stop burdening them with extra charges , extra regulations, charges, extra regulations, extra interference in their life, then i think there's a real chance. jacob this is top

spinning from you. >> if i may say, because john curtis , the pollster, has curtis, the pollster, has pointed out that actually if you look at the by—election results as a whole, it represents a 21 point drop in the conservative party's support since the 2019 election. so there's no way that you can say that this is a good result for the tories. it bodes very, very badly for the general. >> i'm not saying it's good, i'm saying it indicates a chance of hope. and i point out that between 1987 to 1992, the tories lost by elections on huge swings . and then in 1992 we won every single seat that we lost at a by—election back. so by elections don't necessarily predict what's going to happen in a general election. they do give an opportunity for governments to think about what they're doing and to see what works and what doesn't, what works and what doesn't, what works is getting rid of unpopular, expensive green policies. and that's a real opportunity for us. we've got an energy bill before parliament at the moment, which will pile

endless costs on british consumers and businesses. we don't want to do that. >> but then you've said about how i think you said after the by—election result came through on friday morning, it's really important that tory mps like me row in behind the prime minister , but you don't back a load of his policies and you don't back net zero. well, you've argued about the retention of eu law bill being destroyed and you've also talked against corporation tax hikes. you've talked against his tax hikes. so you were a strident critic of rishi sunak and now you're sucking up to him. why is that desperation? >> no , no, no, no. i'm >> no, no, no, no. i'm supporting him as prime minister but backbench mps have to talk about policy and the way policy ought to be going. that's part of our role. it's part of our role of holding the government to account. but i'm supporting him as an individual, as the leader of the party, as the prime minister, to carry on being prime minister. i think that's very important. i think there is no prospect for the tory party in changing leader,

but these byelections have shown us something very clearly and thatis us something very clearly and that is we can win if we do things that are sensible and popular. and the prime minister is being absolutely excellent on the affair around nigel the whole affair around nigel farage the banks, very farage and the banks, very clear, very straightforward, and we are not going to have a culture where in the name of diversity and inclusion , you diversity and inclusion, you have your bank account closed. >> we'll have a conversation about the banking situation in just a moment. but on just a moment. but just on these policies tories should policies that the tories should therefore he dump therefore dump, should he dump therefore dump, should he dump the net zero pledge, should he dump the ban on petrol and diesel cars? >> well, i would certainly get rid the pledge to get rid of rid of the pledge to get rid of petrol cars in 2030 that that was done a few years ago in different circumstances is i would get rid of the plans in the energy bill to put extra charges on people and have extra certificates for people selling their houses, owning property and so on. i would get rid of things that apply direct costs, having a long term ambition for

net zero is different and working towards it. but we need to think about what other countries are doing, what is proportionate and what is affordable, and on tax. >> jacob i've got one of my people's panellists today, carl, saying when will the government bnng saying when will the government bring taxes down? i mean, it's a fair question that many, many people watching and listening to this want to know. and yet still we prevarication from the we have prevarication from the chancellor prime chancellor and the prime minister . minister on this. >> well, no, chancellor or prime minister will ever say what taxes will be changed before a budget. you know that perfectly well. that's prevarication. well. that's not prevarication. that's just the prudence of government . we've got to get government. we've got to get spending down. and you were also talking to your people's panel, the wisdom of the viewers of gb news about hs2 . why don't we get news about hs2. why don't we get rid of hs2 , get away from the rid of hs2, get away from the sunk cost fallacy. stop it now. save that money. i would personally be strongly in favour of getting rid of inheritance tax and doing that before an election . hang on. because it's election. hang on. because it's a tax that's you're meant to be

supporting sunak and now you're trying to drive a steamroller through two of his main policies i >> -- >> the government supports continuing . no, i'm not. continuing. no, i'm not. >> no . yeah, but this isn't >> no. yeah, but this isn't driving a steamroller through his policies. it's making points about policies that don't epitomise rishi sunak, do they? that he is not somebody who has ever stood up , that he is not somebody who has ever stood up, as far as i'm aware, and said hs2 is the best thing since sliced bread, nor has he said that inheritance tax death duties is one of the most important taxes that he really, really what i'm is really likes. what i'm doing is talking about policies and the perfectly way for perfectly normal way for backbenchers do . backbenchers to do. >> i suppose you find this from the audience's perspective, right? the way they see it is this and lots of people say this to me, you don't seem to agree because you're on the right of the party with a lot of your own government's policies. you're more with more aligned almost with what nigel are nigel farage is and others are saying. don't you and people saying. why don't you and people on the right just form a breakaway party actually breakaway party that actually pursues policies? breakaway party that actually pursues it's policies? breakaway party that actually pursues it's really policies? breakaway party that actually pursues it's really hard:ies? breakaway party that actually pursues it's really hard for? you know, it's really hard for you. for you

you. i feel sorry for you because you're having to come on here justify that here and justify policies that you don't agree with. you simply don't agree with. and you're proving at you're not proving popular at the tory the ballot box because tory voters agree with them voters don't agree with them either . ehhen >> well, it worked in oxbridge because we were doing things that were popular and the sort of that i'm talking about of things that i'm talking about , tory is my party. , the tory party is my party. there's no way i would leave the tory and it's always been tory party and it's always been a coalition. there have always been elements of the party that have wanted to go faster or slower. and that's the nature of our politics. with the two party system, some countries have coalitions and see the elections in today that are outside in spain today that are outside an individual party structure. we have coalitions within the conservative party and the labour party that lead to a government where nobody gets everything they like. that's always the way of politics. but that enough of it is what you like, that you can support it as an entity and that's certainly my position. and as i say, i support the prime minister strongly, personally. of course, there policies i there are some policies that i would encourage him to change. but lesson of oxbridge is

but the lesson of oxbridge is that there are things we can change that will be electorally successful, and that's what's so fundamentally and successful, and that's what's so fundainentally and successful, and that's what's so fundain areas! and successful, and that's what's so fundain areas where and successful, and that's what's so fundain areas where i and successful, and that's what's so fundain areas where i don'tnd there in areas where i don't think the prime minister would be strongly opposed to what i'm saying, that if you look at his speeches over the years, his policy interests , he's never policy interests, he's never been a rabid net zero i it has. he >> no, no, that's right. but but i'm afraid the government has the aura of being rabidly, rabidly net zero. let's move on to the banking thing, because i know that you did briefly touch on this when you wrote your sunday express column, which is in papen sunday express column, which is in paper. should the bbc in today's paper. should the bbc apologise to nigel farage? it seems remarkable, doesn't it, that simon jacques, the business editor there, doesn't seem to want take responsibility for want to take responsibility for a badly sourced and incorrect story . well we don't know story. well we don't know whether it was badly sourced , do we? >> we now know that it was incorrect, but we it may have beenit incorrect, but we it may have been it may have been impeccably sourced that it seems . and i sourced that it seems. and i hope she will come out and deny

this, that the source comes from the chief executive of natwest. now, if you're the bbc and you get a story of that kind from the top of natwest, do you think it's perfectly it's true? and that's perfectly reasonable broadcast it reasonable to have broadcast it then. reasonable to have broadcast it then . now it turns out it was then. now it turns out it was untrue . and this leaves two untrue. and this leaves two questions. one, yes , of course questions. one, yes, of course the should apologise when it the bbc should apologise when it gets the story wrong, but more importantly, chief executive importantly, the chief executive of natwest, if she has broken the absolute code that bankers are discreet about their clients, if she's broken, that she must not remain a senior banken she must not remain a senior banker. she must resign. she must resign . must resign. >> but how will we ever find out ? >> 7- >> oh, she imam >> oh, she must. >> oh, she must. >> does simon jacques need to oust his source? >> no. of course not. you would never ask a fellow journalist to do that. and nor would i as a as a politician. she will know whether she's done it or not, and she must deny it. if she hasn't. because otherwise it leaves an intolerable suspicion over her. and it's really important . over her. and it's really important. public figures know that a lot of what they say will

be leaked and will be briefed. but we ought to be able to speak to our doctor and our bank manager confidence. manager in confidence. absolutely as ought everybody else. >> indeed. sir. jacob rees—mogg, lovely this lovely to speak to you this morning. very much for morning. thank you very much for joining . well, there's joining me. well, there's lots more today's show. in more to come on today's show. in just minute, going to be just a minute, i'm going to be speaking jeremy corbyn's speaking to jeremy corbyn's former spin doctor, james schneider. took schneider. after labour took selby thursday , selby and ainsty on thursday, you think that party you think that labour party would the moon, but would be over the moon, but actually red infighting actually red on red infighting has again broken out after has once again broken out after they win uxbridge . they failed to win uxbridge. we'll reaction to all of we'll get his reaction to all of that just after weather , the that just after the weather, the temperatures rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb proud sponsors of weather on. gb news good morning. >> my name is rachel ayers and welcome to your latest news, weather forecast brought to you by the met office . so the first by the met office. so the first half of the weekend was pretty gloomy with quite a bit of rain around, but what does today have in store ? well, across many in store? well, across many parts of northern ireland,

northern england and northern wales, especially a pretty wet day to come with some heavy outbreaks of that could outbreaks of rain that could cause some localised disruption in places . cause some localised disruption in places. now, cause some localised disruption in places . now, either side of in places. now, either side of this, a brighter day with some sunny spells and maybe the odd shower, but for some central areas, the odd heavier shower in there well. but temperatures there as well. but temperatures faring slightly better than yesterday with highs into the low 20s across southern parts of england and wales. now, as we go through this evening, that band of rain is going to slowly sink its way southwards. so some clearer in the far south clearer spells in the far south to start the evening. but quickly clouding over with outbreaks rain . behind this, outbreaks of rain. behind this, though, skies starting to clear. so a cool night to come here. they further south once again, those temperatures remaining in the low teens overnight . so to the low teens overnight. so to start the new week , another start the new week, another cloudy start for many parts of england and wales with further outbreaks of rain may be the odd, heavier shower just ahead of this towards the south. and east. so this could cause a

little bit of localised disruption in places. little bit of localised disruption in places . otherwise disruption in places. otherwise a drier, brighter day to come. but feeling fresher and cooler as well with those temperatures remaining in the high teens. maybe just getting into the low 20s . 20s. >> the temperatures rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on .

welcome back to the camilla tominey show in just a moment, i'm going to be speaking to james schneider, jeremy corbyn's former doctor. should sadiq james schneider, jeremy corbyn's forme scrap doctor. should sadiq james schneider, jeremy corbyn's formescrap ulez)r. should sadiq james schneider, jeremy corbyn's formescrap ulez and 1ould sadiq james schneider, jeremy corbyn's formescrap ulez and cand sadiq james schneider, jeremy corbyn's formescrap ulez and can keirdiq khan scrap ulez and can keir starmer take back control of his warring party? i'll be putting all that and more to him just after the news with tatiana sanchez. >> camila, thank you very much and good morning. this is the latest from the newsroom . the latest from the newsroom. the levelling up secretary is warning against treating the environment as a religious crusade, as he calls for a relaxation of some net zero measures in an interview with the telegraph, michael gove said that inflexible rules lead to an inevitable backlash . the

inevitable backlash. the proposed expansion of the ultra low emission zone was widely blamed for labour failing to win the seat of uxbridge and south ruislip chris skidmore, who chaired the tories net zero review, argues that climate policies consistently polled third among issues voters care about and ignoring those concerns would be bad politics. john ashmore is the editor of capex , which is published by the capex, which is published by the conservative think tank the centre for policy studies. he says the race to net zero has already gone too far, having arbitrary deadlines that are going to cost a lot for ordinary voters, especially at a time like now when so many people are struggling is a pretty bad idea. >> and i think that's something that people probably can get behind. i agree with him when he talks about it being kind of quasi religious thing . i mean, quasi religious thing. i mean, especially if you look the especially if you look at the more extreme ends of the environmental movement, it really a kind of, you really is like a kind of, you know, an end of the world doom cult. you look at people from just stop oil and stuff and

their behaviour is literally like a religious one. >> thousands of people are fleeing homes and hotels on the greek island of rhodes after wildfires have swept the area in. emergency crews are still battling to bring the fires under control . it's all it's all under control. it's all it's all affected parts of athens as well. greece's climate crisis minister is urging people to remain on guard as temperatures continue to soar with dangerously dry and windy conditions expected today . gb conditions expected today. gb news spoke to a british tourist who was evacuated overnight . who was evacuated overnight. >> we noticed sort of the middle of the last week , lots of smoke of the last week, lots of smoke coming over the mountains towards the sea where we were staying . the smoke sort of got staying. the smoke sort of got thicker and thicker through the week . week. >> and finally , more shops could >> and finally, more shops could be converted into homes and extensions made easier as the government launches a review of building rules in proposals to be formally announced tomorrow . be formally announced tomorrow.

new freedoms to enlarge existing homes will also be outlined . the homes will also be outlined. the government says the idea is to make it easier to build upwards and outwards, with new extensions and loft conversions. new measures will see shops, takeaways and betting shops turned into living spaces , with turned into living spaces, with michael gove arguing that britain must make better use of the buildings we already have tv online, dab+ radio and on tune in. you're with gb news. now it's back to . it's back to. camilla >> welcome back. we're to going have lots more reaction to thursday's by—election triple headen thursday's by—election triple header. jane schneider , jeremy header. jane schneider, jeremy corbyn's former communications director , is going to be joining director, is going to be joining me in just a jiffy. chris stephen jardine, the lib dem mp for edinburgh will with for edinburgh west, will be with me be speaking to lee me and i'll be speaking to lee rowley. planning minister, where does from does the government go from here? thursday's here? after thursday's bloodbath? we're to bloodbath? and we're going to have expert analysis from

have top expert analysis from the pollster , lord the conservative pollster, lord robert journalist robert hayward, and journalist john rentoul. now i'm joined by the former strategic and communications director for the labour party under jeremy corbyn, james schneider. he's also co—founder of the momentum group , which set up to group, which has was set up to support jeremy corbyn's corbyn's leadership bid of the labour party . james, lovely to see you party. james, lovely to see you in studio . thank you for in the studio. thank you for joining i wondered whether joining me. i wondered whether you blair interviewing you saw tony blair interviewing keir starmer in the week. i'm just pointing to this interview in the telegraph with michael gove, who described it as like a superstar and someone from a shabby tribute band . it's like shabby tribute band. it's like seeing mick jagger and someone from the counterfeit stones, as it were . do you agree with that it were. do you agree with that analysis . analysis. >> i mean, it is a bit versus tragedy then as farce. unfortunately i mean , starmer unfortunately i mean, starmer and his team are pursuing a strategy quite similar to blair in the 90s, but in extremely different conditions. so in the in the 90s, when the economy is growing and it looks like it's

set to grow, wages are rising. if you say we're going to stick to tory spending plans for the first couple of years, you've still got more money coming in because tax receipts are going up.the because tax receipts are going up. the economy is growing. we're in a condition where we're now in a condition where wages are at the level they were in 2005. we basically had two lost decades, not even one lost decade. so it it doesn't fit. so it feels it does feel like a tribute, a tribute act, but not a particularly good one because the audience has changed. >> then corbyn succeeded in winning support for because he actually, to be fair , under actually, to be fair, under starmer, labour have done better in these by elections than corbyn ever did. right >> these are two well in one of the by elections, absolutely fantastically . and but it does fantastically. and but it does show part of the problem in labour's strategy because these are some of the worst by—election results for government ever and rather than being on the front foot and labour saying right now this means we're on track for

government and we're going to do a, b, c and d, they're having infighting and you know, punching and punching themselves in the face. >> i still think that corbyn would done any better. would have done any better. i mean, blair congratula starmer, because what he had because he said what he had ended was this existential crisis the labour party and crisis for the labour party and the way that the party was left after the annihilation of corbyn in 2019. >> no, i mean obviously i completely disagree . what completely disagree. what happened under corbyn's leadership is that the labour party changed its position from being a basically trying to be the nicest side of the establishment to trying to represent the majority of the people in the country. and we changed policy and we changed political debate and political direction majority direction of the majority of people the for that. people in the country for that. no, the first election no, in the in the first election we thought 13 million we thought we've got 13 million votes. in the second votes. and in the second lecture, we had a terrible policy on brexit and we did badly. and we did the badly. and also so we did the average of how labour had done in the last ten elections and the tories did extremely well. and the key issue there was brexit and we had a policy

brexit and we had a bad policy on brexit. brexit and we had a bad policy on whyt. brexit and we had a bad policy on why did corbyn sort of flush >> why did corbyn sort of flush his brexit principles down the toilet he was toilet then? because he was a staunch brexiteer the very beginning. >> so we were under there. there wasn't a lot of support in the labour for having what labour party for having what i would view to be a sensible brexit policy. there are two possible policies you could have as labour, right? you say as labour, right? one is you say we're democrats. the eu isn't the most wonderful thing that's ever existed . so leaving ever existed. so we're leaving and going find the most and we're going to find the most progressive leave. progressive labour way to leave. that's one. the that's one coherent one. the other one is you say this is a disaster matter and so we're going to make it the most brexit in name only thing we can do, or if possible, overturn it. and the problem is we have both of those coming next to each other. and first one, which i think and the first one, which i think is better, both politically , lee is better, both politically, lee and also in outcome policy terms, i think it's more it's more correct that one would never had the strength in the party on corbyn himself. >> i mean there's been a little bit of what i've described as a corbyn absence. the chair of the labour party in uxbridge

resigned and on friday sort of said that jeremy corbyn had done more for the party than starmer had. we've now got talk of corbyn, perhaps running for london mayor an independent. london mayor as an independent. is credible? reports. is that credible? those reports. so i would really love to see really, really love to see a mayor for london. but will corbyn do it ? corbyn do it? >> james i don't imagine so. >> james i don't imagine so. >> why not? well, he's not ruling it out. he's gone on the airwaves and people keep asking him and he's not ruling it out. well, he's not ruling out. >> he's not ruling out anything, but he doesn't need to be bounced into making a decision by or whoever is by robert peston or whoever is interviewing by robert peston or whoever is intewell,ing by robert peston or whoever is intewell,in mean, by robert peston or whoever is intewell,inmean, he can just say >> well, i mean, he can just say yes whether he's doing it yes or no whether he's doing it or whether he isn't. i mean, that would provide some clarity, right? >> yes. but i mean, it doesn't really it doesn't really matter. he's his own he's allowed to make his own choices his own time. think. >> should he have the labour whip restored, do you think? >> i think it's very unlikely, given happened. given what's happened. but i mean, yes, absolutely. i mean, he have had removed he shouldn't have had it removed in the first place. yes i mean, i don't support in any way,

shape form. keir starmer's shape or form. keir starmer's war on left, on the trade war on the left, on the trade unions, the membership of the unions, on the membership of the party. unions, on the membership of the par has waged war on trade >> has he waged war on the trade unions? i yeah. unions? i mean, yeah. >> yesterday the, the gmb >> so yesterday the, the gmb who've always supported him walked out of the national policy forum that they're having at the moment, partly because according to the briefings, his office was being rude to them while they were rowing back on some key policies to do with workers rights. so he has you know, he has done that. he said that people couldn't go and his his people couldn't go and stand on picket lines after winning the election the the leadership election on the bafis the leadership election on the basis shoulder to basis of standing shoulder to shoulder trade unions. shoulder with the trade unions. >> saying? you >> so what are you saying? you think he's betraying the left? he's voters he's betraying his own voters by not showing solidarity with the strikers? >> well, yeah, he won. >> well, yeah, he won. >> jamie driscoll situation. yeah. >> i mean, you see all of that allowed to stand because he was allowed to stand because he was a . yeah, because he a corbynista. yeah, because he was was already. was already and he was already. he already he starmer he was already mad. he starmer won the labour leadership election on a programme which said, look , we'll shave off said, look, we'll shave off about 20% of the corbyn

programme and i'll wear a suit and i'll be less able to be attacked by the media because i'm more of an establishment figure and i'm going do this. figure and i'm going to do this. well then he has bit by bit well and then he has bit by bit , you know, gone in the other direction, turned, you know, changed all of those policies. so is the programme on so that is the programme on which he the election on the which he won the election on the leadership election. it's also would good programme to go would be a good programme to go to the public on. i mean , if you to the public on. i mean, if you look at the polling of most of those policies, they poll , you those policies, they poll, you know, the majority of tory know, often the majority of tory voters is those things. and voters is like those things. and then the super majority of, of other voters. but that's not his strategy. his strategy is let the tories implode and take oven the tories implode and take over. so he wants the minimum amount of friction possible, which is .why there amount of friction possible, which is .whythere isn't really which is .why there isn't really very much of a narrative. if you look at blair at this time in opposition, you know, he's set out the five pledges that are to going dominate the election. there's a clear narrative about what doing. reason what he's doing. the reason after these historic terrible by elections for the tory party, labour aren't coming out and

saying we're about this now and we're going to get into government, but instead are talking about, oh, our mayor lost election campaign. lost our own election campaign. oh, you know, we oh, we're trying, you know, we haven't fought the left enough. all because all of this infighting because there a clear because there isn't a clear because there isn't a clear because there isn't a clear because there isn't a clear narrative on ulez. >> they're right, aren't they? i mean, shouldn't khan just scrap ulez because it's not popular with people in and. with people in london and. angela do you agree with angela rayner do you agree with angela rayner do you agree with angela rayner do you agree with angela rayner when said angela rayner when she said londoners this ? londoners can't afford this? >> no, i don't. i think this is again you fall into the defensive narrative , which is defensive narrative, which is what labour are meant to be representative of the working people and it's working people who are saying we can't afford this. >> i'm driving a white van, i'm a nurse shift work. a nurse doing shift work. i can't pay £12.50 to go in and out outer london. out of outer london. >> i agree that there could >> so i agree that there could be and should be some changes to the policy. i think the money that's raised from it should go straight into the scrappage scheme. so it's presented as a positive people and you could positive to people and you could do in particular categories positive to people and you could d(you're)articular categories positive to people and you could d(you're self—employedyries positive to people and you could d(you're self—employed and if you're self—employed and you need for then you

need to drive for work, then you get position to get a get privileged position to get a new car or financing for new car or get financing for a new car or get financing for a new there are ways in which new car. there are ways in which you improve the policy and you could improve the policy and i don't the comms around i don't think the comms around it the framing has been it and the framing has been particularly but but to particularly good. but but to win one by—election massively to come close in another one which you haven't held ever before, and to make the main takeaway. oh no, we need to self—flagellate is not very clever politics. you're not a big of starmer at all, are big fan of starmer at all, are you? >> who would you rather led the labour party? >> probably shouldn't >> i probably shouldn't say almost ought almost anyone should. i ought most anyone? yeah. almost anyone. yeah >> would you prefer to >> well, who would you prefer to see angela rayner in? >> prefer to see angela >> i prefer to see angela raynen >> i prefer to see angela rayner. i would prefer to see ed miliband . i'd prefer to see lucy miliband. i'd prefer to see lucy powell. i'd prefer to see jonathan ashcroft. i mean, there are a lot of. >> do you think starmer is actually going to cost labour the in the next election? i mean in terms of they're looking like they've got a good chance of winning plus points winning it being 20 plus points ahead. do think a ahead. but do you think as a personality and a politician, personality and as a politician, he's dud? he's a dud? >> think he's going to >> i don't think he's going to cost them election because

cost them the election because living this country living standards in this country have falling now for almost have been falling now for almost two the conditions that two decades. the conditions that people are really, really people are in are really, really bad. and i think it's very unlikely that government unlikely that a government that's power for 14 or that's been in power for 14 or 15 years at that point gets re—elected. do think that re—elected. but do i think that starmer is a net positive onto that labour i don't that labour vote? no, i don't think so. >> okay. james schneider, thank you indeed for joining you very much indeed for joining me morning. let's bring me this morning. let's bring michael the michael portillo into the conversation mean, conversation. i mean, it's a indictment of starmer and starmer's here by james starmer's politics here by james schneider, to be schneider, perhaps to be expected because he's jeremy corbyn's former spin doctor and very much on the left of the party. what's your analysis of starmer by—election starmer after the by—election results, particularly with uxbndge results, particularly with uxbridge in mind? michael well, funnily i agree with a funnily enough, i agree with a lot of james's analysis. >> i thought he was spot on, spot on in some ways. i mean, it is extraordinary is rather extraordinary to find a party doesn't want a labour party that doesn't want to about what would like to talk about what it would like to talk about what it would like to do in government. and it is certainly true that the conditions would conditions in which labour would take they win the next take over if they win the next election are not all election are not at all promising and extremely different the 1997

different from the 1997 conditions. i was taken aback. not so much to tony blair as to harold wilson when he resigned, he was asked what was his greatest achievement and he said at the time, rather puzzlingly, keeping the labour party together his greatest together had been his greatest achievement. the labour together had been his greatest achie'together the labour together had been his greatest achie'together is the labour together had been his greatest achie'together is an the labour together had been his greatest achie'together is an enormous)ur party together is an enormous problem the way. keeping the problem by the way. keeping the tory party together is also enormous these parties enormous problem. these parties have a very range have to cover a very broad range of interests and policies, but but i was also struck that james himself , if i but i was also struck that james himself, if i may say so, got into a bit of a mess over ulez because is obviously even james is a bit panicked by ulez and the idea that we're going to set up some vast bureaucracy in front of which you have to prove whether you're self—employed and you this van and that's to you need this van and that's to going more meritorious than going be more meritorious than the fact that you just have to buy food for your children at a supermarket, which is a driveway . i mean, this is a bureaucratic nightmare and absolutely the sort of socialist solution that you expect a problem like this. >> but of course, tories in

london hoping that khan london will be hoping that khan digs and carries on digs in his heels and carries on with because give with it because it might give them hope. absolutely. at the them a hope. absolutely. at the moment, for the tories, moment, london, for the tories, isn't particularly hopeful. >> no, julia says the tories only oh is the only hope. oh no. this is the second hope. jeremy corbyn second hope. if jeremy corbyn also so there are two also runs. so there are two effectively labour candidates endorsed , but james seems to be endorsed, but james seems to be ruling that out on of his ruling that out on behalf of his former boss. ruling that out on behalf of his forrwell,)ss. ruling that out on behalf of his forrwell, i,;. ruling that out on behalf of his forrwell, i, i'd like him to go >> well, i, i'd like him to go back to his former and back to his former boss and plead with to stand. now plead with him to stand. now let's have a discussion about who got on the show today who you've got on the show today from 11 michael. >> , i'm dipping back in >> well, i'm dipping back in time a bit as well because i've got peter shilton, the goalkeeper, on talk goalkeeper, coming on to talk about addiction to gambling. about his addiction to gambling. we're ethical we're to going have an ethical debate about what restrictions there should be gambling . there should be on gambling. bobby coming on, not, i bobby davro is coming on, not, i think, to do an impersonation of john major, but i might persuade him. brilliant >> him to do impressions >> get him to do any impressions he bobby davro, but he can love bobby davro, but he's going the edinburgh he's to going the edinburgh fringe . fringe. >> p- p— p believe it? for fringe. >> believe it? for the >> can you believe it? for the first time in life , if we're first time in his life, if we're going to be looking a very going to be looking at a very tough play about grenfell, the

words the survivors and words of the survivors and i went to see an exhibition by a ukrainian folk artist whose museum in ukraine was destroyed immediately by the russians because they're trying to annihilate ukrainian culture. but her works are on display in london. i've been to see the exhibition. >> amazing. it sounds like a jam packed show. we'll be looking forward to that at 11. lovely to see you, michael. and to see you as well, james, you very as well, james, thank you very much. i'm hoping i'm very much. now, i'm hoping i'm very much. now, i'm hoping i'm very much going to much hoping that we're going to be to christine jardine be speaking to christine jardine now, lib dem mp for edinburgh west great west after their well, great victory, to be fair to you, christine somerton christine, in somerton and frome, must be delighted . frome, you must be delighted. >> yes, we are delighted. and it's actually the first time since the mid 90 is that an opposition party has won for our by elections in the course of one parliament. and that was the liberal democrats under paddy ashdown. it was the start of a very successful period and we think this will be too, because as we saw in tiverton and honiton in rural areas, life

long conservatives are now voting liberal democrat because they don't like what the conservatives are doing , but conservatives are doing, but they want something done , they want something done, something done about the lack of gps and about public services. >> but do they like what you're doing? christine i ask that because you have got this great result there. but it's as a result there. but it's as a result of tactical voting. so ed davey, your party leader, has admitted that today in the observer . it's also as admitted that today in the observer. it's also as a admitted that today in the observer . it's also as a result observer. it's also as a result of low turnout. so people aren't actively voting for lib dem policies , are they? in fact, policies, are they? in fact, i don't think many people watching or listening to this can name any dem policies you know what? >> we've won four by elections four times recently . people in four times recently. people in conservative seats have gone to the polls and elected a liberal democrat. now you can try and pick holes in that whichever way you want and say it's tactical voting or people are not unhappy with the conservatives the fact is that given the choice of electing another other conservative mp , they have opted

conservative mp, they have opted instead to have a liberal democrat mp because they know that liberal democrat mp will work hard is based in the community and that they will get the sort of representation which certainly in somerton and frome they've been missing out on and that sarah will now provide . so that sarah will now provide. so the fact is the people are choosing liberal democrats . choosing liberal democrats. >> but christine, tell me something. what are your top three policies? because i'm genuinely unclear as to what the liberal democrats are pushing for these days . for these days. >> well, you know what? i'm not going to unveil our manifesto , going to unveil our manifesto, so at this point. but we will have i'm not asking you to unveil a manifesto. >> i just i just want to know. three top lib dems want to finish the answer. >> if you let me finish the answer. okay. you know, people see people see that in parliament. what are doing is parliament. what we are doing is we pushing better public we are pushing for better public services , for more investment in services, for more investment in pubuc services, for more investment in public services . we were the public services. we were the very come up very first people to come up with a windfall tax and in this

country , we suggested it before country, we suggested it before the labour party because we could see the energy companies were making vast profits while people were struggling to heat their homes. we did that. we uncovered the problem with sewage in this country being being spilled into rivers . and being spilled into rivers. and we have policies for that. we have policies, policies for supporting mortgage payers. at the moment we ask for a mortgage support scheme. we were the ones who called for the supermarkets to be brought to the table to talk about their pricing . so, i talk about their pricing. so, i mean, what do you want me to do? i can tell you everything that we more on the opaque we stand for more on the opaque holes in it. but when we go to the polls, when we talk to voters, they like what we say. they like what we do . we've won. they like what we do. we've won. we were the big winners in the local council elections in a lot of rural constituencies in england. so, you know , you may england. so, you know, you may not know what the policies are. i completely accept that. but but but the people saying but you're saying you don't want to

reveal you're saying you don't want to reveal your main policies. >> like you've given me a kind of like you've you've kind of given me some soundbites about where the general direction of travel is. windfall tax. you alerted people to pollution in rivers, etcetera . but, you know, rivers, etcetera. but, you know, where do you stand on grammar schools? are you going to make a pledge tuition fees pledge to scrap tuition fees again? would like again? where would you like our taxes what should happen taxes to be? what should happen to inflation? do you want different governance of bank different governance of the bank of ? what are you going of england? what are you going to about crime? what does the to do about crime? what does the liberal do liberal democrats going to do about of subjects ? about any of these subjects? >> that will be in our >> all of that will be in our manifesto the next general manifesto at the next general election. if you listen to election. but if you listen to what we say in parliament, it's very we stand on very clear where we stand on every issue that the country is facing at the moment that we believe strongly that something facing at the moment that we belitoz strongly that something facing at the moment that we beli to be rongly that something facing at the moment that we beli to be done' that something facing at the moment that we beli to be done aboutsomething facing at the moment that we beli to be done about the athing facing at the moment that we beli to be done about the costg facing at the moment that we beli to be done about the cost of has to be done about the cost of living. that's something has to be done about the economy, that something has to be done about the state of nhs. we need to the state of our nhs. we need to be able for people to get gp's when them to get when they need them to get ambulances when they need them. yes, the pressure to be

yes, for the pressure to be taken teaching now taken off teaching staff. now we have talking about our have been talking about our policies five years now. policies for five years now. we've been asking government we've been asking the government to make changes. we wanted to make serious changes with the windfall tax use that money to invest in our services. so when it comes to a general election , it comes to a general election, we will reveal our policies for the next five years in our manifesto . but like the other manifesto. but like the other parties, we're not going to we're not going to do it right now. if there is a by—election, then we will another by—election in mid bedfordshire . we are in mid bedfordshire. we are confident that the people there will with in the same will agree with us in the same way that the people in so way that the people have in so much sabina nessa in north much in sabina nessa in north shropshire and back in chesham and amersham. >> christine, we're running out of time, so i just need a yes no answer to the following question. will you do a pact with labour at the next general election? or okay. election? yes or no? no okay. thank you for that, christine jardine, to speak you jardine, lovely to speak to you this sunday thank you this sunday morning. thank you very just a minute, very much. in just a minute, we'll the government's we'll get the government's reaction bruising reaction to those two bruising by—election defeats. when i speak planning minister lee

speak to planning minister lee rowley, don't anywhere . rowley, don't go anywhere. >> that warm feeling inside made from boxt boilers is proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> good morning. my name is rachel ayers and welcome to your latest news weather forecast brought to you by the met office. so the first half of the weekend was pretty gloomy with quite a bit of rain around, but what does today have in store ? what does today have in store? well, many parts of well, across many parts of northern ireland, northern england and northern wales especially, a pretty wet day to come with some heavy outbreaks of rain that could cause some localised disruption in places . localised disruption in places. now, either side of this, a brighter day with some sunny spells and maybe the odd shower, but for some central areas, the odd heavier shower in as odd heavier shower in there as well. temperatures faring well. but temperatures faring slightly better than yesterday with highs into the low 20s across southern parts of england and wales. now, as we go through this evening, that band of rain is going to slowly sink its way southwards. so clearer southwards. so some clearer spells in the far south to start

the evening, but quickly clouding over with outbreaks of rain behind this, though, skies starting to clear. so a cool night to come here, though, further south. once again, those temperatures remaining in the low teens overnight. so to start the new week, another cloudy start for many parts of england and wales with further outbreaks of rain. maybe the odd heavier shower just of rain. maybe the odd heavier showerjust ahead of this shower just ahead of this towards the south and east. so this could cause a little bit of localised disruption in places. otherwise a drier, brighter day to come . but feeling fresher and to come. but feeling fresher and cooler as well with those temperatures remaining in the high teens. maybe just getting into the low 20s that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers, proud sponsors of weather on .

conversation. join me monday to thursday at 8 pm. on gb news. welcome back to the camilla tominey show. >> lovely to see you this morning. now, lee rowley , the morning. now, lee rowley, the minister for local government and building safety, joins me now. also tory mp for now. he's also the tory mp for nonh now. he's also the tory mp for north east derbyshire . minister, north east derbyshire. minister, lovely to speak to you this morning thank sparing morning. thank you for sparing the let's have a look at the time. let's have a look at this interest interview with michael gove in the sunday telegraph . if going to ask telegraph. if i'm going to ask you the government's you about the government's announcement you about the government's a|moment, ent you about the government's a|moment, but michael gove says a moment, but michael gove says net zero can't become a crusade . should the government now back off from net zero and its target? should it tear up its

green pledges as some tories are suggesting in the aftermath of the uxbridge by—election, particularly ? particularly? >> no, i think we've got a clear policy of trying to get to net zero by 2050. i think everybody , wherever they live, whatever their thoughts are on this, wants us to tread more lightly on the earth to have greater respect for the environment. but what think, michael is trying what i think, michael is trying to say is that there's a group of activists out there and quite frankly, of people in of activists out there and quite franlabour of people in of activists out there and quite franlabour party)f people in of activists out there and quite franlabour party andeople in of activists out there and quite franlabour party and thee in of activists out there and quite franlabour party and the liberal the labour party and the liberal democrats who just say things, one are fundamentally democrats who just say things, one true. are fundamentally democrats who just say things, onetrue. it's are fundamentally democrats who just say things, one true. it's just fundamentally democrats who just say things, one true. it's just stopamentally democrats who just say things, one true. it's just stop oil ntally democrats who just say things, onetrue. it's just stop oil and.y not true. it's just stop oil and the they do really silly the like. they do really silly things. and they're things. and three, they're taking the track taking no account of the track record, we've got, which taking no account of the track reypretty we've got, which taking no account of the track reypretty good.ve've got, which taking no account of the track reypretty good. and got, which taking no account of the track reypretty good. and allt, which taking no account of the track reypretty good. and all the 1ich is pretty good. and all the plans which we've got to go forward. so this is about trying to do in a way which takes to do this in a way which takes people rather than some people with us rather than some of the things like just stop oil, which is just crazy. >> also wanted to ask you, >> i'd also wanted to ask you, minister, on the back of the announcement that gove is set to make tomorrow, he's talking about in a way of about a loosening in a way of planning to people to

planning laws to allow people to have more extensions, more loft conversion better conversion means to make better use . isn't the use of their homes. isn't the biggest on housing the biggest concern on housing the fact that the government set this build 300,000 this target to build 300,000 homes and just isn't meeting it? successive governments have failed this issue. how failed on this issue. how many housesis failed on this issue. how many houses is the current government building a year ? building a year? >> well, i think the last figures were 240, 242,000. i think, which is the highest in 30 years. so we are demonstrating that we're making a lot of progress on this. but the importance behind house building is so it gives building is so that it gives people ability to own their people the ability to own their own homes, to get on the housing ladden own homes, to get on the housing ladder, sure that people ladder, to make sure that people can build capital, can get , can, can build capital, can get, can, can, start a family. and can, can start a family. and that's hugely important. so we've made some progress, but there's to do, which is why there's more to do, which is why my is going to announce my course is going to announce tomorrow changes , tomorrow some further changes, which build more which hopefully will build more homes , but also vitally build homes, but also vitally build them in the right places. >> think people are right >> do you think people are right to be concerned that this might kind carte blanche to kind of give carte blanche to people to build monstrosities on their homes if the planning laws

are relaxed? are to going be relaxed? obviously, be obviously, you might be concerned people are going concerned that people are going to inappropriate large to build inappropriate large extensions going to convert extensions are going to convert lofts that shouldn't be converted rest of it i >> -- >> there's always a balance on this , and i can understand why this, and i can understand why people concerned . but we people are concerned. but we brought in some changes about a decade ago or so, i think, and that allowed people build that allowed people to build upwards places and upwards in certain places and certain . and i think certain properties. and i think it's worked relatively well. we built some changes , built brought in some changes, again, to conversions of again, to allow conversions of offices and shops to houses. and again , that's worked pretty again, that's worked pretty well, brought on nearly near enough 100,000 houses in the last years. i think the last seven years. so i think the record is relatively positive and what we now need to do is to try and allow and more to try and allow more and more to happen there, to give people more if we give more choice. and if we give people more choice, it allows people more choice, it allows people the people to get more on the housing i say, and housing ladder. as i say, and then to build lives. and then to build their lives. and that's what we want that's exactly what we want to do as conservative government do as a conservative government >> this backlash >> you've seen this backlash against ulez in london. the against the ulez in london. the thought the tories have thought is that the tories have retained uxbridge the of retained uxbridge on the back of people not happy with that

people not being happy with that policy khan . there's policy by sadiq khan. there's now talk this purging of some now talk of this purging of some of your green pledges you've deau of your green pledges you've dealt with net zero. what about this ban on diesel and petrol cars come 2030? it's not popular with the electorate. it might be popular with the green lobby. but one of those but isn't this one of those policies that you need to policies that you also need to get of in a bid to try and get rid of in a bid to try and win the next general election? >> i don't think so. i think what we need to do, you know, bofis what we need to do, you know, boris johnson announced this whatever it was 2 or 3 years ago, and he said by 2030, we'll set ambitious target to try set an ambitious target to try and i think we've and do this. i think we've made some positive progress to some really positive progress to it. i think rolling off the four courts 25% of new courts last year, 25% of new cars were electric. so cars were were electric. so that's and that's a huge increase from a few years before now. and again, it's about doing this in a that works. so this in a way that works. so we've got a target. let's all go and try and do as much as we can to get there. more broadly, to get there. but more broadly, what the ulez message showed in uxbndge what the ulez message showed in uxbridge friday is if you uxbridge on friday is if you don't take people with you, if you do things without due consideration, sadiq khan has

consideration, as sadiq khan has done you don't think through done, if you don't think through your , the labour party your policies, the labour party clearly then people will clearly aren't, then people will say, think so. the say, i don't think so. so the job of government is to take people and try and people with us and to try and hit ambitious targets, but hit these ambitious targets, but also do it in way which works i >> -- >> have you got an electric car? >> have you got an electric car? >> i haven't. i've got >> no, i haven't. i've got a diesel. i bought it in 2008 and i'm going keep it going until i'm going to keep it going until it stops working because that's meant to be doing our bit. that's a great example of where the discussion on these kinds of things needs to be more nuanced, where people are wanting to change their cars. hopefully lots of people will move to electric. that's happening because cleaner for the because it's cleaner for the environment way works, environment in the way it works, but where you have car but also where you have a car already, got lot of a already, you've got a lot of a lot energy that created lot of energy that was created to create car. you should to create that car. you should try and use it long as possible. >> let's have a look at other kind of unpopular government policies actually been policies that have actually been pinpointed karl, pinpointed by david and karl, who on my people's panel who are on my people's panel this week up in selby. they were tory but they've gone tory voters, but they've gone across because they're across to labour because they're fed asking, when fed up. karl was asking, when are you going bring taxes

are you going to bring taxes down? all? well we'd down? first of all? well we'd love to bring taxes down as soon as we're able to, hopefully. >> and the chancellor has been clear, prime minister, clear, as is the prime minister, that want to do, that. we're that we want to do, that. we're a tax party. it's not it's a low tax party. it's not it's not where we are comfortable when taxes are higher than we want them to be. but we've also got series challenges. got a series of challenges. we've just the best we've just spent the best part of £1 trillion on covid and of half £1 trillion on covid and on trying to tackle inflation and energy have a the and energy that will have a the reality is that that will have an impact. i what the an impact. but i think what the government is to do is government is trying to do is balance all of those things off. we have also get debt we have to also get debt reducing. are really reducing. these are really important our important things for our children our grandchildren. children and our grandchildren. but reduce but yet we'd love to reduce taxes, but also want the taxes, but people also want the government be responsible. government to be responsible. and be clear, need to they and to be clear, we need to they also want the government to be clear these are also want the government to be clear are these are also want the government to be clear are hard these are also want the government to be clear are hard times these are also want the government to be clear are hard times and.e are also want the government to be clear are hard times and hard there are hard times and hard choices, and trying to choices, and we're trying to make but as soon as we're make those. but as soon as we're able to do that right autumn, able to do that right in autumn, when chancellor gives his when the chancellor gives his autumn statement, should they be brought can't can't >> well, i can't i can't speak for the chancellor. >> we'll have to wait till the autumn. love to taxes

autumn. we'd love to bring taxes down. the reasons down. it's one of the reasons why i went into politics, but we have it in a way which have to do it in a way which works. if we cut taxes and the debt goes up, that causes other problems. have to have problems. so we have to we have to try and balance all of these things out. >> one more question, minister. it raised jacob rees—mogg it was raised by jacob rees—mogg earlier and also earlier in the show and also david, panellist. wants david, our panellist. he wants hs2 be scrapped. what do you reckon? >> well, i don't think that's going i mean, has going to happen. i mean, hs2 has the tunnels are basically built, the tunnels are basically built, the land has basically cut. the land has basically been cut. >> going to come to >> it's not going to come to london. that's a gross error, isn't it? not to come isn't it? it's not going to come to another seven to london for another seven years as well. >> all of these big infrastructure projects take time. we'd speed them time. we'd like to speed them up. announced some by the up. we've announced some by the way, announced ways up. we've announced some by the wawhich announced ways up. we've announced some by the wawhich we're ounced ways up. we've announced some by the wawhich we're tryingi ways up. we've announced some by the wawhich we're trying to ways up. we've announced some by the wawhich we're trying to speedays in which we're trying to speed up infrastructure projects. up big infrastructure projects. but now its way. we but hs2 is now on its way. we need to deliver that big infrastructure. huge infrastructure. it puts a huge amount additional capacity amount of additional capacity onto and this is onto our railways. and this is about to get about trying to get that capacity place. it's not capacity in place. no, it's not popular get that popular in places. get that infrastructure in place which makes country fit for the makes our country fit for the next 50 years. >> lee rowley, thank you very much indeed forjoining me this

much indeed for joining me this morning. well, catherine, you can't say that i don't ask the people's questions to people's panellist questions to the the show. the people we have on the show. what dave and indeed carl what have dave and indeed carl made interviews this made of my interviews this morning? catherine in selby. yes >> thank you, camilla. and welcome back to the hub in selby. yes you did ask the questions. let's see what they made of the answers . carl, we made of the answers. carl, we heard no tax cuts expected, at least this autumn. we do. of course, have a national debt now of i think, £2.6 trillion. do you accept that maybe it's not the time for tax cuts? absolutely >> but i think what we were saying this morning, david, himself, people were advisors. i mean, james was asked questions there about the scrapping of the transport scheme in london, the cost of it. and he said, oh, the money should be taken continually and then we'll set up a new scrappage scheme. what about the costs of that? they don't seem have any any sort don't seem to have any any sort of knowledge about how business works keeping down. works and keeping costs down. just schemes and just setting up more schemes and

more. just they just don't more. it's just they just don't seem to be in the real world, not in the real world. >> and david, we were hearing a lot about housing, the plans to liberalise, the planning laws make to convert some make it easier to convert some spaces above shops , etcetera. spaces above shops, etcetera. and you had a lot to do with planning on the local council. what do you make of the plans? >> yeah, i can see the benefit to maybe small extensions and loft conversions, but my worry would be that if they were to going convert too many shops into accommodation, i approve putting accommodation above shops, but i don't want to see the downfall of the high street and that will only create people using outward town shops. >> the high street is having a very difficult time at the moment, isn't it? really struggling up and the struggling up and down the country and carl, back to you . country and carl, back to you. listening to jacob rees—mogg talking about banking , talking about banking, specifically what's happened with nigel farage, obviously as an account and you have a lot to do with banks. what's your view on that? >> well, i used to do when there

were branches open of course, a lot of the managers have gone because they've closed the branches. think it's true the branches. i think it's true the banks to lend money to banks are there to lend money to people, who can people, not not decide who can have account and who can't have an account and who can't have an account and who can't have an account and who can't have an account. mean, i know have an account. i mean, i know someone recently been trying someone recently had been trying for with one of for six months with with one of the to and get the sun the banks to try and get the sun added to the account. and it's just bureaucracy and red tape added to the account. and it's just just�*aucracy and red tape added to the account. and it's just just justacy and red tape added to the account. and it's just just just ay and red tape added to the account. and it's just just just a shambles. ape added to the account. and it's just just just a shambles. and and just just a shambles. and it's they've all it's because they've closed all the no personal contact the there's no personal contact anymore. they just treat anymore. and they just treat people really. but people with contempt really. but i i influencing who i think i think influencing who people have accounts people who can have accounts who can't. do with can't. it's nothing to do with the as i say, what will the banks as i say, what will happen will they'll start happen next will they'll start doing that in shops when you go in, have a particular in, if you have a particular view, won't serve view, they won't serve you. >> yeah, used to have a >> yeah, people used to have a local relationship with their bank didn't they? bank manager, didn't they? and that big that has gone and big consequences for now. consequences for people now. yes. to you david, on yes. and back to you david, on transport, obviously we had jacob rees—mogg freelancing on government policy , basically government policy, basically saying let's scrap the whole of hs2, not just the link to leeds. what do you reckon to that?

yeah, i think now the start of it, i don't think they should scrap it entirely, but they made a huge mistake in my opinion. >> they should have started in the north where it was most needed and the benefit then would have. they would have kept voters . it would have got more voters. it would have got more confidence. the south, as you aware yourself , has got a very aware yourself, has got a very good transport link . the north good transport link. the north hasn't hs2 would have made hasn't and hs2 would have made a big difference . so i don't agree big difference. so i don't agree with him about scrapping it because there's too much money being spent on it already. but i do think they need to commit more to the north and level up or they're to going lose voters. >> 16 million people live in the north of england and millions of those feeling very short changed, aren't they? it'd be goodif changed, aren't they? it'd be good if we had some buses to start with. >> never mind hs2. you know, the transport systems are terrible and can't use them. and often you can't use them. you have to use a car. >> yeah. very reliant on cars and obviously the cost of fuel and obviously the cost of fuel and everything goes with and everything that goes with that. finally , we the

that. and finally, we the conservative labour are fighting very publicly now about green policy , but lots of factions policy, but lots of factions within the conservative party all with their different ideas of what rishi sunak should be doing . and have they got any doing. and have they got any chance if they don't come together? david no , they need to together? david no, they need to work as a team and they're not the disjointed at the moment and that's really what's letting them down. >> i'm not saying any of the other parties are any better at the moment, but they need clear policies and stick with it. it's like a business, you like running a business, you know, you need you need to run it as a business. >> better wise words from our people's panel here in selby. they need to pull it together and be united and clear policies. back to you. camilla great job in selby. >> catherine, thank you very much indeed. and don't forget, if you want to apply to the people's panel, it's gbnews.com forward now forward slash panel. now don't go we've got go anywhere because we've got some expert analysis on the way from two top political analysts. we'll back before you

i'm gb news radio. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. i've been very much looking forward to this part of the show because we're going to have some top analysis of what went on thursday day of what went on on thursday day and means for the and what it all means for the next general election. so i'm joined lord robert hayward. joined by lord robert hayward. tory expert tory peer, pollster and expert on all things conservative. and i'm independent's chief i'm also the independent's chief political columnist. and i'm saying an expert on all things laboun saying an expert on all things labour. so we've got and labour. so we've got blue and red represented on this sofa

very nicely. let us just first of all make some analysis of how important these by elections are when it comes the next when it comes to the next general election. robert, i mean, they signify much? mean, do they signify much? a week's a long time in politics. the next election could be 16 months away for the next general election, the answer is no . election, the answer is no. >> but for the next few months, they set the mood because we've now in recess . the commons they set the mood because we've now in recess. the commons are the peers. don't go into recess till next week, but we're in recess and therefore the mood until the party conferences has been set by these by elections is. >> john, how good has it been for labour? obviously they've had this stellar success in selby and yet all of the newspapers are reflecting on this row between starmer and khan over the ulez. we've heard from james schneider earlier in the show that there's disaffection amongst the gmb union over starmer being frankly, too right wing. they think, on strikes and protests . think, on strikes and protests. where are labour? how would you characterise them now? >> well, i mean, i think selby was the significant result. i

mean was that was a blair mean that was that was a blair era result. was it was era result. that was it was better than some of the by—election swings that tony blair achieved before the 97 election that is election and that is extraordinary me, given given extraordinary to me, given given the lack of excitement and charisma around keir starmer. it just shows how how badly the conservatives have made a mess of things. but if there was more excitement around keir starmer, would it be a better result? >> i mean, people often talk about 92, is it 97? well about is it 92, is it 97? well it's much more 97 than 92 i think. >> but the whole point about uxbridge, they're not they're not passionate about stamina . not passionate about stamina. >> wrote a column about this, probably hasn't gone. and so did i. nobody wants starmer i. nobody wants keir starmer to be prime minister. that's not true. on, john. nobody. true. come on, john. nobody. it's like blair era it's not like the blair era where people are lining the streets to meet this bloke. they don't find particularly inspiring. >> no, and the uxbridge >> starmer no, and the uxbridge byelection was a warning of what could happen over the next 16 months. if people think that a vote for labour is going to cost them. yeah it's as simple as

that. them. yeah it's as simple as that . if people think that that. if people think that a labour government is to going is going to raise taxes, then that labour lead is, is a bit soft. >> robert i was going to say selby is a very good result for laboun selby is a very good result for labour, no question. but it's more because the conservative vote went down dramatically. the labour vote didn't go up by even 3000 votes. the turnout was low by midsummer by—election standards. so yes, it is a great result for the for the labour party, as is somerton and frome for the lib dems. but it is not something that says, as it's absolutely clear, because as you're saying, there's not a great love for the labour party or for keir starmer at the moment . and that's the one hope moment. and that's the one hope that the conservatives have got, is that they can transform the perception of the tories from being a government at war with itself. over the last two years, over partygate and the like, and move to on a good, competent administration. well let's talk

about what each side needs to do, because the suggestion in the papers today, robert, first of all, with the tories , is that of all, with the tories, is that they need to kind lurch more rightwards. >> they need to have a bonfire of all of their green policies that they to bring tax that they need to bring tax down. they need to tougher on down. they need to be tougher on immigration. everyone's welcoming rishi sunaks tough stance when it comes to farage banking situation . when is that banking situation. when is that the right direction of travel? will that gain them votes? >> the first thing they have >> no. the first thing they have to is be able to put behind to do is be able to put behind in public's mind the events in the public's mind the events of the last two years effectively show that they are a good administration . the good administration. the government had good inflation figures. they were good retail figures. they were good retail figures hidden by the by—election results. this week as well. they have to continue on that. at the same time as deaung on that. at the same time as dealing with the migration bill, which has now passed parliament, etcetera . so the first message etcetera. so the first message is to not go in for a mass of policies , it's just to be a good policies, it's just to be a good administration , which

administration, which unfortunately the government hasn't been for the last few months or years. >> and john, on starmer, there's this talk that he just needs to kind of, you know, hold the ming vase in his hand and not let it break and not say very much, not put out a policy platform. just leave the tories to implode. the danger of that is he seems very much over substance. much sound bite over substance. >> but that's fine. is it >> well, but that's fine. is it . is it fine and what what is even better is what's happening in in nottingham this weekend which is there's you know people criticising him and attacking him and having a go at him for not being for not wanting to spend enough and not wanting to give unions what they give the trade unions what they want. that we want. the more of that that we hean want. the more of that that we hear, better from, from keir hear, the better from, from keir starmer's he has starmer's point of view, he has got to persuade the british public, the floating voter, that he is not to just spend he is not going to just spend money and raise taxes. >> about james >> what about the james schneider factor, i can call schneider factor, if i can call it you know, this it that? you know, this disaffect from in the left disaffect from some in the left of party? absolutely not of the party? absolutely not a problem, james. and yeah, great. >> more the more of that we have, the more of that. keir

starmer has the better. >> but then you're saying that keir starmer positions himself as a righty and a left wing party. of course, to keep everyone happy. >> know , it's the tony blair >> you know, it's the tony blair left that i get that. >> but doesn't that only work if you do have the charisma of tony blair michael gove blair had michael gove this morning calling him shabby morning calling him a shabby tribute act . tribute act. >> well that'll do . i mean, i >> well that'll do. i mean, i don't think i don't think people really want another another tony blair. actually, i think they'd be perfectly satisfied with someone who's who's competent and boring on competence and bonng. boring. >> that's kind of a description that you could apply to the prime minister as well. yes. rishi sunak steady . steady as he rishi sunak steady. steady as he goes. rishi sunak steady. steady as he goes . you know, i'm competent. goes. you know, i'm competent. i'm working hard behind the scenes . is i'm working hard behind the scenes. is that i'm working hard behind the scenes . is that what tory voters scenes. is that what tory voters actually want? because at the moment he's not encouraging them to come out for him. they're staying at home. >> they are. and having said that, there was a very positive response to his renegotiation of the framework he's got the windsor framework he's got the windsor framework he's got the migrant nation legislation

through the positive response . through the positive response. yes, it was. if you look at it. yeah. no, not that they didn't understand the windsor framework per se, but if you look at the sort of people who responded in the opinion polls as to the fact that he was tackling what hadn't been tackled , which was all the been tackled, which was all the left over the tails of brexit in one direction or another , that one direction or another, that seemed as if he had kind of actually it was a message i've worked on it. i've got the detail, i've delivered a sensible agreement with the eu on this particular field . the on this particular field. the trouble is there's a lot of other things to do and also particularly the economy, stroke, cost of living , which in stroke, cost of living, which in all opinion polls comes out as the prime concern for voters of whatever political persuasion, the economy , stupid, and not the economy, stupid, and not this kind of battle of personalities then because we've got to politicians at the helm who seem to be lacking in that kind of boris johnson stroke personality. >> i think rishi sunak i think you're being a bit unfair. i think he's got a bit more

personality than keir starmer, but , i mean, the but actually, i mean, the question is, can the economy be turned around in time? and i think there's got to be a very big question mark over that. and how short are the voters memories? because, i mean, there's that that that there's no doubt that that that liz did so much liz truss episode did so much damage to the conservative brand. i mean, i hadn't hadn't really realised because i thought i thought it only lasted seven weeks. rishi sunak came in and sorted everything out and put everything right. and yet the damage done to the conservative party's reputation runs deep. so you are saying runs so deep. so you are saying that like 97, so are you that it is like 97, so are you predicting an absolute bloodbath? >> i mean, we know that. well, no, but because labour starts from so much further back, actually, i mean, it's what actually, if i mean, it's what keir starmer said to tony blair at the blair fest. >> yeah. last week was that if he gets a if he gets a tony blair swing at the next election, gives election, that gives him a majority of it's not quite majority of one. it's not quite right scotland has right because scotland has shifted, it means a small shifted, but it means a small labour majority. shifted, but it means a small labwe've ajority. shifted, but it means a small labwe've got ty. shifted, but it means a small labwe've got less than a minute >> we've got less than a minute left, a very quick report card as it's the holidays,

as it's the summer holidays, what you give rishi sunak? >> robert so he needs to keep on trying at what the route he's following. >> john what would port card would starmer would you give to keir starmer i'd a b plus. i'd give him a b plus. >> i mean, i think he's done an astonishing job. i mean, everybody's underestimated him , right? >> enough. very enlightened >> fair enough. very enlightened conversation, gents. thank you very much on this sunday morning for joining me. robert hayward forjoining me. robert hayward and rentoul . that's and john rentoul. well, that's it for today . as i said, it for me for today. as i said, we're going to be here with you through whole summer. through the whole of summer. unlike competitors. unlike our competitors. so please tuned up next is please do stay tuned up next is michael i'll be back michael portillo. i'll be back next week at 930. but first, more weather . more weather. >> the temperature's rising . >> the temperature's rising. boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello and welcome to your latest weather update from the met office. we hold on to unsettled weather conditions across the uk over the next few days. all of us seeing some rain at times and temperatures pretty disappointing for the of disappointing for the time of year to. it's down to a deep

year to. it's all down to a deep area of pressure centred area of low pressure centred across at the moment. across the uk at the moment. this moving band rain this slow moving band of rain affecting the central of this slow moving band of rain aferk|g the central of this slow moving band of rain aferk ande central of this slow moving band of rain affe uk and that 1tral of this slow moving band of rain affe uk and that will of this slow moving band of rain affe uk and that will continue to the uk and that will continue to bnng the uk and that will continue to bring bursts of rain to bring heavy bursts of rain to parts england, parts of northern england, the north we head into north of wales, as we head into the afternoon on sunday. in fact, we have a warning force fact, we have a warning in force right the sunday right through the day on sunday here, up to 70mm rain across some of the hills of northern england to the south and southeast. it's brighter a southeast. it's brighter with a few brighter, few showers and brighter, fresher with fresher weather. again with a few showers across north of few showers across the north of scotland. temperature wise, well, mid teens well, peaking in the mid teens towards perhaps towards the north, perhaps 20 degrees towards the west of scotland high of 23 scotland with a high of 23 towards south—east of towards the south—east of england. we the england. as we go into the evening and overnight, that band of its journey of rain continues its journey south again. there'll be some heavy bursts rain in places, heavy bursts of rain in places, a in force until a warning in force until midnight towards far midnight tonight towards the far south—east, a south—east, clearer skies with a few and clearer with few showers and clearer with a few showers and clearer with a few showers and clearer with a few showers towards north of few showers towards the north of scotland to quite fresh in scotland to the quite fresh in the temperatures here the north. temperatures here at 9 well towards 9 to 11 celsius, well towards the and southeast. it's the south and southeast. it's pretty warm. temperatures here holding teens. as pretty warm. temperatures here holmonday, teens. as pretty warm. temperatures here holmonday, it's teens. as pretty warm. temperatures here holmonday, it's the teens. as pretty warm. temperatures here holmonday, it's the south1s. as pretty warm. temperatures here holmonday, it's the south of as for monday, it's the south of the uk. we'll see the wettest weather. still some heavy bursts

of in places. could see of rain in places. could see a bit of brightness towards the of rain in places. could see a bit south—east;s towards the of rain in places. could see a bit south—east triggering the of rain in places. could see a bit south—east triggering are of rain in places. could see a bit south—east triggering a few far south—east triggering a few heavy showers here. all in heavy showers here. but all in all, fresher weather all, brighter, fresher weather starting to push in from the north, tucking most places north, tucking into most places as through the day. as we go through the day. temperatures again, struggling as we go through the day. tempertimes again, struggling as we go through the day. tempertime of gain, struggling as we go through the day. tempertime of year, struggling as we go through the day. tempertime of year, strlbetter| for the time of year, no better than 20 degrees towards the south uk . south of the uk. >> the temperatures rising , boxt >> the temperatures rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on gb news .

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