gb news. good evening. >> the bbc makes a very rare pubuc >> the bbc makes a very rare public apology and it makes it to me. i'll tell you in a moment how pleased i am. and as we start to discuss green taxes and the impact they're having on low income families , the snp decides income families, the snp decides to go in completely the opposite direction and to ban gas boilers completely . what will that do to completely. what will that do to those on low incomes who want to sell a house? and michael gove is planning for more housing in our city centres. i think that might be a rather good idea. but first let's get the news with polly middlehurst . polly middlehurst. >> nigel thank you. good evening. well, our top story tonight is that the bbc has issued an apology to nigel farage over its reporting about the closure of his coutts bank

account . the bbc's business account. the bbc's business editor simon jacques says the broadcaster's information came from a trusted and senior source , but it turned out to be incomplete and inaccurate. he says mr farage lodged a formal complaint about the bbc after it reported that he lacked the funds needed to hold open an account with coutts. he's since welcomed the apology and says he's grateful . conservative mp he's grateful. conservative mp and gb news presenter jacob and gb news presenterjacob rees—mogg reacted in the last hour and said there are questions to answer. >> why is it that the bbc is always a few days late? the bbc really ought to have given this apology when it first emerged that they'd been sold a pup by a, quote, source unquote, at natwest and they should have corrected it immediately . but corrected it immediately. but this is characteristic of the torpor with which the bbc operates . if dame alison has operates. if dame alison has broken this , she must go and broken this, she must go and therefore she must answer the question was she the source for the bbc? >> well, turning our attentions

now to greece, where the tour operator , tui, has cancelled all operator, tui, has cancelled all outbound flights to rhodes up to and including friday. as wildfires continue to spread rapidly right across the island. nearly 1500 tourists have been flown home in the biggest evacuation of its kind. as the fires burn there for a sixth day running .jet2 and tui both running. jet2 and tui both announcing four repatriation flights today. easyjet and tui have another planned for tomorrow . well, the foreign tomorrow. well, the foreign office says between seven and 10,000 britons are currently on the island . michael gove has the island. michael gove has announced plans to create more homes in the uk's main cities by he says , relaxing planning rules he says, relaxing planning rules and cutting red tape . the and cutting red tape. the housing secretary says he wants to make it easier to convert empty shops into new flats. for example , and extend existing example, and extend existing homes . the plans will include homes. the plans will include creating an urban quarter in cambridge . the plans, which were cambridge. the plans, which were immediately dismissed by the local conservative mp anthony

browne as nonsense . and lastly, browne as nonsense. and lastly, britain's first million pound footballer , trevor francis, has footballer, trevor francis, has died at the age of 69 after a heart attack. he joined nottingham forest football club in 1979, helping them to win back to back european cups. he also scored the winning goal against malmo. he played 52 times for his country before taking to management where he guided sheffield wednesday and birmingham to major finals. you're up to date on tv online dab+ radio and the tune in app. this is gb news, britain's news . channel >> good evening. i told the world about three weeks ago that coots had closed my business or my personal accounts and had not

given any reason what so ever. i also said that i'd struggled to open bank accounts literally anywhere else . but this began to anywhere else. but this began to really matter. on the 4th of july when the bbc ran this headune july when the bbc ran this headline and now it came from their business editor , simon their business editor, simon jack nigel farage bank account shut for falling below the wealth limit, which led, of course , to much hilarity among course, to much hilarity among political commentators in the media. and of course , me saying media. and of course, me saying the whole thing was political was clearly some sort of crackpot conspiracy . but once crackpot conspiracy. but once i got my subject access requests back from pm coots and goodness me, i didn't really expect 36 pages of bile vitriol and actually quite a lot of it, frankly, just outright libellous as the only way that i could disprove the bbc story was to pubush disprove the bbc story was to publish it in full. and there are many things in that report i did not want to put into the pubuc did not want to put into the public domain. so vile, were they? but i had to do it.

public domain. so vile, were they? but i had to do it . and they? but i had to do it. and this all emerged last thursday when, of course, i got a letter of apology from dame alison rose, who is the ceo of the entire natwest group . i felt entire natwest group. i felt that the bbc, frankly, were being a little bit slow in correcting the story and changing the headline. and i thought the hurt the story had caused me was such that actually i really, really, really wanted an apology. well bbc apologies are very, very rare . they only are very, very rare. they only happen once every few years . but happen once every few years. but today i got that apology and it began with simon jack, the bbc's business editor, and he says the information on which we based our reporting on nigel farage and his bank accounts came from and his bank accounts came from a and senior source. a trusted and senior source. hmm. interesting however, the information turned out to be incomplete and inaccurate . incomplete and inaccurate. therefore, i would like to apologise to mr farage on top of that, i got a letter this

afternoon in which i was pleased to get, and it came from deborah turness , the ceo of bbc news and turness, the ceo of bbc news and current affairs . and i'm going current affairs. and i'm going to put the letter up on your screen now and let's go through what is significant , screen now and let's go through what is significant, made very, very clear that repeated that the information turned out to be inaccurate and at the bottom of that paragraph, she says, i would therefore like to apologise to you on behalf of bbc news. thank you. thank you. thank you. simon jack, thank you, deborah . tennis, i know you, deborah. tennis, i know some will say it took too long, but thank you . a fulsome apology but thank you. a fulsome apology from the bbc is not something that happens very often. i'm delighted to get it. but when we go into the detail of this letter, it's really , really letter, it's really, really interesting because because again, she repeats that a senior and trusted source had put this information out. but what was really interesting and what i learnt from this letter was that she says, we went back to the

source to check that they were happy for us to publish the information. they said that they were . now the bbc have were. now the bbc have apologised. they are now out of it , which points the finger back it, which points the finger back to coutts and natwest banking group. extraordinary howard davies is the chair chairperson as he calls himself. what he would, wouldn't he? he's the chairperson of the whole group. hasn't said a word. peter flavell is the ceo of coutts bank, hasn't said a word , and bank, hasn't said a word, and dame alison rose sent me that letter on thursday that a letter of apology, well, let's call it, shall we, a half apology , an shall we, a half apology, an i want to get i want to get to the absolute truth of what happened here. how can it be right? and it doesn't matter whether it's me or anybody else, how can it be right that my banking status and the amount of money i may or

may not have in my personal and business accounts are being discussed out with the business editor of the bbc. i then disseminated to a wider world. how can that be ethical? how can that be legal? how can that be moral ? i want to find out the moral? i want to find out the truth and i'm blooming well going to find out the truth since i was last with you, i've now put in a subject access request to natwest as well to see what they hold about me and whether the name dame alison rose crops up there . and i've rose crops up there. and i've also been to the information commissioner's office at the end of last week and they've got real powers of investigation . we real powers of investigation. we will get to the source. the trouble is all of this will take a bit of time in the short term. i think a bank, a bank which we own, 39% of a bank that has got between 15 and 20 million customers, i think this is an issue that matters so much . i issue that matters so much. i really believe that the treasury select committee should be

reconvened because what is happening to me with coutts bank and the natwest group and actually is happening to thousands , possibly tens of thousands, possibly tens of thousands, possibly tens of thousands of businesses, all over this country. and i have now effectively become their voice and i'm going to stand up and fight not just for me but for all of them to i also want to say thank you . i have never, to say thank you. i have never, ever put my head over the parapet on a political or current affairs issue and had this level of support and it comes from across the board because this is a non—partisan issue. goodness me . even people issue. goodness me. even people in the guardian writing things about me saying, well, we might not agree with him, but actually on this he is right. and the huge numbers of people that have emailed me texted me , been in emailed me texted me, been in touch with me. the tales of woe that i'm getting from men and women who've had their small business accounts closed down by the is a massive the banks. this is a massive national scandal and it gets

even worse because they intend to start looking at your social media. believe me, this isn't just about me . once i'm out of just about me. once i'm out of the way. they want to come for you, too. thank you to rishi sunak for his support on this issue. thank you. thank you very much indeed to andrew griffith , much indeed to andrew griffith, the city minister who is calling the city minister who is calling the heads of 19 banks into downing street this week to say you should not close people's accounts just because of their political views. this isn't over by a long way. i think what we've really exposed here is the political takeover of corporate institutions and the way in which innocent, ordinary people are suffering. this campaign will go on, i promise you, for a very, very long time . now very, very long time. now joining me is david elstein , joining me is david elstein, former chief executive of channel five and former producer at the bbc. david, good evening. thank you very much indeed for joining me . there are some some joining me. there are some some critics would say the bbc should have acted last thursday and i

have acted last thursday and i have to say, you know, when i wrote the letter to tim davie on saturday, i was beginning to get a bit frustrated. and but they have you know, they have actually fully apologised . and actually fully apologised. and this is not something, is it? the bbc does very often. >> well, i still don't think they've done it today. i know you were very gracious in accepting the apology when you were on the pm programme this afternoon , but reading debbie's afternoon, but reading debbie's letter and debbie turner's is a really a serious person and a strong executive . and it's strong executive. and it's interesting that your complaint to tim davie was answered by her as chief executive of bbc news , as chief executive of bbc news, but in the letter she uses the word inaccurate four times as she doesn't use the word wrong . she doesn't use the word wrong. she doesn't use the word untrue . she doesn't use the word false . she doesn't use the word false . she doesn't use the word false . she doesn't use the word misleading . she simply says misleading. she simply says inaccurate and incomplete. well

i think that level of well, non apology doesn't suffice. now, it is quite , as you say, hard to is quite, as you say, hard to get an apology out of the bbc. yeah and cliff richard eventually got a grudging one, but only after the bbc had spent £2 million refusing to give him an apology for its invasion of his privacy . you haven't had to his privacy. you haven't had to wait as long as he did, and you haven't had to sue them. but it's disappointing that someone even as genuine and serious as debbie turness, can not bring herself to say we were wrong . herself to say we were wrong. >> interesting . no, but she does >> interesting. no, but she does at least give me more information about the source by confirming they went back to the source. now, there are some, david, who would speculate that given that simon jack had had dinner the night before with dame alison rose, you know, a

conversation early that morning could have been, you know , we could have been, you know, we had a couple of glasses of wine, didn't we? dame alison, are you sure you want me to pursue this? she says yes. and nigel farage gets call at 9:00 the gets a phone call at 9:00 the next morning may be what next morning that may be what happened. not be what happened. it may not be what happened. it may not be what happened. a of cynics, happened. but a lot of cynics, david, saying that by david, are saying that by issuing apology , even the issuing the apology, even if the wording precise as you wording is not as precise as you think it perhaps should be, that by issuing this , what they've by issuing this, what they've effectively done is to throw dame alison under the bus . dame alison under the bus. >> i think that's probably true , basically. simon jack is being very coy about who his senior and reliable source might be, and reliable source might be, andifs and reliable source might be, and it's , i think, inconceivable and it's, i think, inconceivable that sitting next to her at dinner at a bbc event, that sitting next to her at dinner at a bbc event , the dinner at a bbc event, the farage issue was never mentioned. i mean , it was very mentioned. i mean, it was very much in the news and clearly

either she she was the source or she must have authorised the source because it's, for me, inconceivable that. simon jack , inconceivable that. simon jack, who is a reputable and intelligent journalist, would take a briefing from somebody else inside the natwest group or acutes without saying to them, i'm going to check this out with dame alison rose. so if she's not in the chain, i would be really , really surprised. and i really, really surprised. and i think the pressure that jacob rees—mogg was applying continues to be relevant . and as you say, to be relevant. and as you say, the bbc has passed the buck back to natwest and they're going to have to come up with the answer i >> absolutely. david elstein, thank you very much indeed for joining me this evening on gb news. well, that was interesting. i want to promise you i will get to the absolute truth. i'm to going get to the

absolute truth now, a story that should worry all of us. this is this battle i'm now engaged upon is an absolutely fundamental one. it is freedom of the individual versus the authoritarian state. and who better to join me in a moment than toby young from the free speech union .

radio. i said from the very start, if they can do it to me, they can absolutely do it to you. >> i'm joined by toby young, general, secretary of the free speech union, and somebody who was debunked by paypal. not all that long ago, but you managed to win that battle. toby my case, they'd been monitoring on a monthly basis my social media. i don't align with the banks values. funny, i've had some emails over the weekend from

people resigning from the bank saying to the bank, you don't augn saying to the bank, you don't align with my values, which i've enjoyed . and i know for a fact enjoyed. and i know for a fact that staff that work for all of these banks now have their social media monitored . i've got social media monitored. i've got a couple of cases of people being brought before disciplinary committees for what they've said online. but now we understand that the four major banksin understand that the four major banks in britain written into the small print, into banks in britain written into the small print , into the the small print, into the detail, is that they have the ability to monitor our social media. and with al and the march of technology erg, we're not very far away from every one of natwest customers and every other banks being monitored on social media. how seriously do you take this ? you take this? >> i take it pretty seriously . i >> i take it pretty seriously. i think it's a big story. the four major high street banks , hsbc, major high street banks, hsbc, lloyds, barclays and of course, natwest, which owns coutts, all say not in their terms and conditions, but in the small print of their privacy policies says that they reserve the right

to monitor other people's social media accounts . they don't say media accounts. they don't say why and they don't. explicit admit it's to with a view to debunking them . if they express debunking them. if they express any unorthodox or heterodox political views. but that's the strong implication. and we know that banks have been doing that not least in your case. and in my case. so i do take it very seriously. one of the things the free speech union does is we advise our members not only to make sure their privacy settings are set to quite a high standard , so not everyone can access their social media accounts, but also to install apps that automatically delete their social media posts after a week, a fortnight or so. so a fence archaeologists can't go back over a number of years to try and find things to be offended by. >> and is that i mean, i certainly whatsapp has got that . do all the social media apps have that right? >> yeah, i think you can find apps which which you can install

which will delete old posts and you can set the timeline. >> that's good advice. otherwise we've got to say to people, don't say what you think. and that would the last thing that would be the last thing that would be the last thing that want and toby, that we want to do. and toby, i begin to think that d banking making people non making you a non person in the wrong hand is this is potentially the ultimate tool of repression . tool of repression. >> it really is. i mean, it's as i think we discussed when i was last on your show, it's the emergence of the of a chinese style social credit system in britain. and what that means is, i mean, in communist china, if you say something that offends the ruling party, you can lose access to your bank accounts. and in an increasingly cashless society, that's a very powerful tool of censorship. it's a brutal and effective tool . if brutal and effective tool. if you can't buy groceries, if you can't pay your rent, if you can't pay your rent, if you can't get another bank account, if your bank by natwest , then if your bank by natwest, then you really are stymied . so it you really are stymied. so it has an enormously chilling effect on free speech. so it's really deeply worrying. and when

the free speech union were debunked by paypal back in september of last year, we immediately approached the government. andrew griffith , who government. andrew griffith, who you rightly praised earlier, he's doing a good job. he's doing a job. yeah, we told doing a good job. yeah, we told him happened to us. him what had happened to us. he said, best thing can do said, the best thing you can do is submit evidence to the is to submit evidence to the treasury demonstrating how widespread we widespread this is. we had plenty of cases, we were plenty of cases, people we were looking had happened. looking after. it had happened. it us. it hadn't just happened to us. so submitted reams of so we submitted reams of evidence the treasury and it evidence to the treasury and it was partly of that that was partly because of that that now government is changing, now the government is changing, changing the payment regulations now the government is changing, ch make] the payment regulations now the government is changing, ch make ithe payment regulations now the government is changing, ch make it hardernent regulations now the government is changing, ch make it harder font regulations now the government is changing, ch make it harder for bankslations now the government is changing, ch make it harder for banks toions to make it harder for banks to bank people . it won't make it bank people. it won't make it impossible. i mean, what it said is you have to disclose why you're banking people you're you're banking people and you're not discriminate not supposed to discriminate against their against people for their perfectly lawful political beliefs. the banks, beliefs. but the banks, of course, won't honestly course, won't always honestly disclose they've debunked disclose why they've debunked people. found out in your people. as you found out in your own case. this is why. >> yeah. own case. this is why. >> although what i have learned, if with you two if i sat here with you two months and we talked about months ago and we talked about subject access requests, i wouldn't have had the foggiest idea what they were and i now idea of what they were and i now

realise it's a powerful tool on the on the free speech union's website we've just created some faqs about what to do if your bank, including to how submit an sa request and a template sa letter that people can copy and paste and send to their banks if their d banked. well, that's very, very important. i mean , very, very important. i mean, trouble is though, isn't it? we've all signed up to this privacy policy so we've given them automatically the right to monitor our social media accounts , which they can do very accounts, which they can do very easily using key words. yeah. how do we turn this back ? how do we turn this back? >> i think well, one of the reasons coots justified d banking you was because you supposedly posed a reputational risk to coots. oh yeah . risk to coots. oh yeah. >> oh, they bank mafia gangsters and goodness knows who else. but i but they did say if i had lots of money that would still be okay. that's the morality of coots isn't it. >> it's ludicrous. and the person deciding that it would actually be better for coots

reputation to d bank you rather than allow you to retain an account must be a half wit because nothing has done more damage to coots reputation than the decision to d bank. you know no we've got that's the way i think to fight back against this make it clear that the price these banks pay and payment processors like paypal for d banking people just because they disapprove of their political views, just because they're not woken we've to make sure woken up, we've got to make sure the they pay for that in the price they pay for that in terms of reputational harm is far greater than any harm that might them they might befall them because they offer processing offer payment processing services these people. services to these people. >> i think that process >> yeah, i think that process may wonder may have begun. i wonder a couple of people have emailed in to me, bud light famously a bud light. you this is the light. you know, this is the sort great working class beer sort of great working class beer of america . and they had of america. and they had a transgender dylan mulvaney was the name was advertising bud light and bud light drinker said, hey, this has all gone way too far and sales have fallen dramatically. it's no longer the biggest selling beer in the us

and maybe there's a bit of a tide turning against some of this corporate nonsense . could this corporate nonsense. could this corporate nonsense. could this be the light moment for british banking? >> it could be the bud light moment. you know, that was that's been an incredibly effective boycott campaign in the united states . it's had the united states. it's had a devastating effect on the share price of anheuser—busch , the price of anheuser—busch, the parent i think when parent company. i think when paypal tried bank the free paypal tried to bank the free speech union and i went to war with paypal, including coming on your show, and they did your show, and then they did a reverse ferret and then they tried to change their acceptable use and created an use policy. and that created an enormous so they then use policy. and that created an eno afous so they then use policy. and that created an eno a reverse so they then use policy. and that created an eno a reverse ferret so they then use policy. and that created an eno a reverse ferret on» they then use policy. and that created an eno a reverse ferret on that( then use policy. and that created an eno a reverse ferret on that at1en did a reverse ferret on that at the that process, that the end of that process, that two week process, they'd had $10 billion their share billion wiped off their share price. i'm sure that the attempt to bank from coots hasn't to bank you from coots hasn't done much for natwest's share price. that's the way to price. i think that's the way to fight back. hit where it fight back. hit them where it hurts. can make sure that hurts. if we can make sure that they money a result of they lose money as a result of acting this censorious way, acting in this censorious way, then they'll start. then they'll sit up and they'll stop. >> i think they will keep fighting the good fight. and believe me , folks at home, this

believe me, folks at home, this is not the end of the matter. the apology from dame allison, the apology from the bbc. i have not given up with this project. in fact, i've barely started with project because this with this project because this runs right through corporate britain . there is a huge degree britain. there is a huge degree of political prejudice. the new liberal left are the most illiberal people in the world. it is cancel culture and if they can control your money, well, goodness knows where this ends. and i'm going to have over the course of the few weeks, course of the next few weeks, a lot of stories of people who've been debunked for a whole raft of reasons, including you of reasons, including how you spend your money. yes. they're even debunking people because of how they spend made their money. the whole thing is completely and hopelessly out of control. now very interesting by—election results that took place last thursday, including uxbridge , thursday, including uxbridge, where the tories hung on the world, was surprised. i'm not. i live right on the edge of kent and greater london. i've never seen such local public anger about ulez that is why the

tories held that seat and was now talk may be there'll be a slight reversal of some of these green taxes which hit the poor the hardest. but in scotland they've decided to go the other way more of that in just

radio. the anger about the ulez extension . extension. >> it's real. well, one man that knows more about it than most is ross clark , a freelance ross clark, a freelance journalist, author of not zero, and ross mbappe . i think if more and ross mbappe. i think if more newspapers these days than almost anybody on this subject , almost anybody on this subject, i've never local anger as i've never seen local anger as great around here. so calm , says great around here. so calm, says mayor khan. says that only 1 in 10 in motor vehicles will be affected by the £12.50 daily ulez charge . but i think that's ulez charge. but i think that's because he's looked at cars across the whole of london, are not out of london, is that right?

>> well, it may well be. of course, it will be higher in certain parts of london, poorer parts of london. but the point is that 10, that one tenth is that 1 in 10, that one tenth of cars there, the cars that are owned by the poorest people, the motorists struggling, motorists who are struggling, the your who the you know, your nurse who needs a car to go on night shift and use public transport. and can't use public transport. that could be £25, couldn't it? well well, exactly. if you're going one day and then home the next day, it'll be £25. you know, works out nearly £3,000 know, it works out nearly £3,000 a year. that's an incredible tax. you've got sort of ed tax. and you've got sort of ed miliband saying the other day said, oh, labour's green policy is about showing that, you know, cutting the cost of living and being green are two things. two sides of the same coin. well perhaps he'd like to explain how it helps with the cost of living , suddenly hitting , you know, suddenly hitting people with a £12, 50 daily charge just for driving to work. i think those figures are wrong because there aren't many old bangers in in islington or in hampstead or in clapham or in fulham, you know , the older cars

fulham, you know, the older cars and the older vans are on the edges. >> i would reckon out where i am . it's probably three out of ten, not one out of ten. but i mean, we'll see. but but you're right, it impacts on the poorest. now, there's a .court case being fought, the five conservative councils on the outer of london a outer edge of london fighting a legal action. the impact of this by—election there are a handful of labour seats on the edge of greater london, but there are 3 or 4 conservative seats that labour would like to win on the edge of greater london. do you think there's a chance that starmer might challenge khan over this policy? >> well, he already has asked him to think again. khan sort of standing firm, but the penny is beginning to drop now. and labour and also in the conservatives that you are not going to sell green policy wise to the public if they're going to the public if they're going to whack them with massive bills . and, you know, we all these political parties, they rely on these polls which say ask people, do you think we should

fight climate change, get net zero? and people say in general terms, yes. but when the costs become obvious, people change their mind. and when you ask them specifically, are you prepared to pay more tax for this, are you prepared to give up your foreign holidays and things, you get a very, very different answer. >> yeah, vote blue, go green. that was the great david cameron slogan boris years. of slogan in boris years. all of this accelerated it and it's affecting housebuilding with nitrates, etcetera . it does nitrates, etcetera. it does appear to be there is something of a change going on. but as ever , the snp government, or ever, the snp government, or should i say the snp green coalition in government in scotland have decided whilst we're having a rethink , look, we're having a rethink, look, they're going the other way. tell us the plans. >> yeah, well this is a statement by patrick harvie who's actually the greens co—leader of the greens , and co—leader of the greens, and he's the net zero buildings minister. i think his title, but he's proposed, he said from, you

know , 20, 25 suggesting you know, 20, 25 suggesting you won't be allowed to sell your house in scotland unless it gets up to a c rating on an energy performance certificate. but you also wants to tweak the ratings in the energy performance certificate to make it virtually impossible to get to a grade c unless you have some kind of green heating system. so you've got a gas boiler , an oil boiler got a gas boiler, an oil boiler you wouldn't be able to get to grade c, you wouldn't be able to sell your house. now that's 85% of scottish homes. >> so you'd be batus would suddenly become available so you wouldn't be allowed to sell your house. >> yeah, well, just think of it. you say you an old you know, say you own an old house and you're a bit hard up and you think, well, you know, house and you're a bit hard up an(betterhink, well, you know, house and you're a bit hard up an(better downsize. you know, house and you're a bit hard up an(better downsize. |iou know, house and you're a bit hard up an(better downsize. i better)w, house and you're a bit hard up an(better downsize. i better .v, i'd better downsize. i better. you know, i want to buy a more energy efficient home. but you say even be allowed say you wouldn't even be allowed to you wouldn't to do that because you wouldn't be sell your existing be able to sell your existing house you'd spent at least house until you'd spent at least £10,000. they would make a green. >> they would make it against the law to sell a property. >> yeah, but it didn't have a

heat pump. >> exactly. it's a complete it can't be true. but we shouldn't be smug. >> can't be true. >> can't be true. >> we should not be smug about this. of the border this. south of the border because climate change because the climate change committee advises committee, which advises the government westminster, committee, which advises the government westminster , they government in westminster, they want same thing to happen want the same thing to happen from britain from 2028. you know , if you don't get grade c in your energy performance certificate , you'll be banned certificate, you'll be banned from selling your house. >> trouble is, ross, people are looking at what's happening on the rhodes. they're the island of rhodes. they're looking they're looking at these fires. they're looking at these fires. they're looking you know, the looking at. and, you know, the hottest temperatures in the mediterranean since 1977. mediterranean area since 1977. and certainly on the bbc and sky, you know, hot weather is equated directly with climate change, isn't it? >> well , change, isn't it? >> well, global temperatures are rising and there are more hot extremes . teams rising and there are more hot extremes. teams around the world. there are fewer cold extremes around the world on forest fires. actually globally , the amount of acreage of land that's being burnt in wildfires is declining. it's declined aboutisit is declining. it's declined about is it 25% this century. that's from nasa satellite data

. so, i mean, you know, that's partly because of , you know, partly because of, you know, we've got better at fighting. it's partly to fighting fires. but partly changes in land use and so on. but we just demonstrate that, you know , demonstrate that, you know, there's more to forest fires than just climate change and people going around saying the earth is on fire. well, actually there's less of the earth on fire now than there was 20 years ago. >> but temperatures are rising , >> but temperatures are rising, temperatures, global temperatures, global temperatures are rising. >> more extremes that causes >> more hot extremes that causes problems. obviously, heat kills people , but cold kills even people, but cold kills even more. you believe there is a more. do you believe there is a link between increased co2 and temperatures yes, temperatures rising? yes, i think i think it's almost definitely the thing we can't absolutely prove it. so the argument then is not that you're not a denier, as it were. >> the argument is what we're doing in the name of tackling it. >> yeah, i accept that. global temperatures rising, you temperatures are rising, but you know, and there are risks from climate to climate change, but you have to balance those risks against the risk from ruining your economy, impoverishing people. because if you if you're going to

you you know, if you're going to impoverish people , you're going impoverish people, you're going to people way to kill more people that way than through excessive temperatures. >> final thought on scotland , >> final thought on scotland, the scottish national party, you know, dramatic rise in their vote . that happened sort of vote. that happened sort of between five, ten and 15 years ago , particularly under alex ago, particularly under alex salmond. then that carried salmond. and then that carried on years nicola on for years with nicola sturgeon and with salmond. it was three letter word he was a three letter word that he repeated again and again and again. oil oil. it's our oil. repeated again and again and again. oil oil. it's our oil . we again. oil oil. it's our oil. we can be independent. and with oil pnces can be independent. and with oil prices at 111 bucks a barrel, which was the number they used, scotland can cope. scotland can pay scotland can cope. scotland can pay for everything. now, there was a huge dispute over which parts north sea are parts of the north sea are actually in. gas fields were in engush actually in. gas fields were in english waters, and he thought the scottish . but by the the lot was scottish. but by the by that was the whole economic bafis by that was the whole economic basis of the snp message. what is it now ? is it now? >> you tell me. i don't think . >> you tell me. i don't think. but yes, they turn their backs on oil . alex was an oil on oil. alex was an oil economist. you know, he knew what he was talking about in

terms of oil price. but as soon as we had that referendum in 2014, in about, you know, a month later, oil prices crashed, that took, you know, the that itself took, you know, the scottish the case for scottish independence . it ruined it. but independence. it ruined it. but now you know the snp tried to impose any kind of new oil exploration exploitation in in the north sea well that completely destroys that. but it's okay it's okay because ed miliband has told us there's a green energy revolution coming. >> jobs , wealth , isn't there >> jobs, wealth, isn't there just i think they got a big problem. >> this is another problem with trying to heat all homes in scotland with electricity. it's a great hold—ups in the grid. you know, the sort of new wind farms in the north of scotland. they can't sort of connect to the grid because, you know, the capacity is not there. so if everybody did, as patrick harvie wanted to do, and turned to an electric heating system tomorrow, the national grid

wouldn't be able to cope. >> interesting. ross clark, as even >> interesting. ross clark, as ever, fascinating . and folks who ever, fascinating. and folks who regularly watch this show will know we present all side of this argument. we do so on a regular basis. but i have to say, this particular proposal north of the border today seems absolutely insane. border today seems absolutely insane . now, amidst it all, insane. now, amidst it all, there's always some good news out there, isn't there? and you remember what we were told that when we left the european union , the whole thing would be a complete and utter catastrophe . complete and utter catastrophe. and am deeply frustrate and whilst i am deeply frustrate , noted that we have not taken many more the potential many more of the potential benefits from brexit, as we should have done, actually, people adapt, people adjust. so it's good to see that uk manufacturing exports to the eu have actually risen as despite brexit and everything's despite brexit. but they've risen despite brexit, they've gone up by a couple of % over the course by a couple of% over the course of the last year. and however good or bad governments are, people are still out there doing their best. it's just that when

governments help them, they manage do those jobs even manage to do those jobs even better . now housing manage to do those jobs even better. now housing is becoming one of the absolutely key political issues . the government political issues. the government say they're going to build 300,000 new homes every year , 300,000 new homes every year, but that's meeting some big practical green and political opposition iron out around the country. michael gove thinks he might just have an answer. country. michael gove thinks he might just have an answer . and might just have an answer. and for once, i think michael gove might just be right in all of that.in might just be right in all of that. in just a moment.

housing really matters. well, of course it does. it always matters. but at a time of an absolute shortly rocketing population, it matters even more. now, i'm not going to go into the numbers of net

migration to britain, but we all know we all know we need to build a new dwelling every 3 or 4 minutes in this country just to cope with the number of people coming in to britain. the government have set a very, very clear target, which is we'll be building 300,000 new houses every year by the mid 2020s, the mid 2020s pretty much coinciding with the date of the next general election. and yet they've not been getting anywhere near that target it and the problem they have is they want to build more homes out around the country and members of parliament say this is the wrong place to build . arguments wrong place to build. arguments get made about greenbelt, arguments get made about urban sprawl , all local arguments get made about urban sprawl, all local planning and local democracy become a real obstacle and a real barrier. and then you've got the environmental aspects of this. i was talking to somebody the other day, a small developer down in hampshire, and he's part of what's considered to be the

basin for the test river. and it is a beautiful and very important chalk stream. but he's having to spend fortunes on making sure that nothing he does will leach nitrates out of the soils , that it's going to put soils, that it's going to put the cost of each apartment up by £25,000 every everywhere. the government turns it finds it more and more difficult to meet these housing targets. and yet i remember a few years ago i was in rotherham, i was campaigning in rotherham, i was campaigning in rotherham, i was campaigning in rotherham in the wake of that terrible scandal that had happened up there. and i remember thinking, well, just a few miles down the road is meadowhall, the first really big out—of—town shopping mall in the united kingdom . and here was the united kingdom. and here was the high street in rotherham , and high street in rotherham, and shops were empty , shops were shops were empty, shops were boarded up. shops had become charity shops for obvious rate and tax reasons. charity shops for obvious rate and tax reasons . and i looked at and tax reasons. and i looked at these, i looked at the flats above them and it seemed that no

one was living there either. and ibegan one was living there either. and i began to think over the course of the last few years, well, maybe see if there is this fundamental change in the way we shop. maybe city centres could fundamental change in the way we shop. m somewhere ntres could fundamental change in the way we shop. m somewhere ntrelive. |ld fundamental change in the way we shop. m somewhere ntrelive. well, fundamental change in the way we sh0jman;omewhere ntrelive. well, fundamental change in the way we sh0jman who'shere ntrelive. well, fundamental change in the way we sh0jman who's been trelive. well, fundamental change in the way we sh0jman who's been on.ive. well, fundamental change in the way we sh0jman who's been on this well, one man who's been on this case for some time is mark homer, co—founder and director of progressive property. it is difficult to build on fields, isn't it? >> it certainly is difficult because you need a planning application and i'm quite excited today because it sounds like we may be getting some new permitted development rights to enable us to take disused, underused commercial buildings. so maybe retail that could be office, that could be potentially warehouse uses and convert those into a residential use . now, this is not new. use. now, this is not new. george osborne 2013 introduced these rights originally , and i these rights originally, and i think i was the first person in peterborough to put an application in to take an office building and convert it into 23 apartments. but it got more and

more difficult over the years. more councils got involved there was more sort of consultees . was more sort of consultees. there were deciding about sort of road safety and contamination and there were various other things around sizing which caused an issue. so i'm hoping that this is a new renaissance and you know, yeah, and if city centres , if that culture of centres, if that culture of going out for the day to the shopsis going out for the day to the shops is dying because we prefer to go to bluewater or we prefer to go to bluewater or we prefer to buy online and it kind of makes sense to live in city centres now doesn't it. >> and i'm kind of thinking, mark, if we do that, a new kind of will grow up because of shop will grow up because you'll get convenience stores, pharmacies, thing . pharmacies, that kind of thing. i michael gove has argued i mean, michael gove has argued here for a gentle, a gentle surrey densification of our inner cities. i think compared to our neighbours is what actually even london. we're very low level aren't we. >> we certainly are. we took the old marks and spencer's in the

centre of peterborough about 4 or 5 years ago. the to the ground floor put a supermarket in there, no problem. but the two floors above completely vacant. so no use for it. we added three floors, put 100 flats above and now it's back into use . yes, it works for into use. yes, it works for a sort of supermarket opposite . we sort of supermarket opposite. we took a pound land, whole building was all sort of in use previously. now there's a college in there. the rents have halved on the high street where we are. so all of these uses suddenly start to work. you know, we've got an estate agency in one, whereas they could never have afforded the rent before . have afforded the rent before. and you know, on the other side, you know, we're looking at sort of service sector. it's interesting, isn't it, because as i earlier , you know, as i said earlier, you know, whenever you want to build in any rural or semi—rural constituency, there are violent objections. >> the arguments get made. you put another couple of hundred houses here. there's not an extra gp, there's no more extra space in the schools. and very

often that's true . i mean, very often that's true. i mean, very often that's true. i mean, very often it really is true when it comes to developing in the inner cities. do we do we get the same level of objection? >> i don't think we do. certainly when we put an application in and often we are putting full application in because the type of buildings we're converting are not sort of deemed permitted. you know, you can't use the permitted development rights. you don't see the same level of objections at all. in fact, often i'll get 3 or 4 objections to a scheme like that. whereas if we're doing a new build development, you're on a i don't know, maybe a greenfield site and certainly within residential areas where you've not got other commercial residents around, we way, way more objections. so it it's definitely the way to go . they definitely the way to go. they just need to resource the councils and make sure these permitted development applications actually are strictly dealt with in that way. and they don't find the reasons

to refuse. >> well, on other reasons to refuse , as so many builders , as refuse, as so many builders, as so many builders are saying, that a current green targets the classifications for houses are making it harder and harder and harder. those problems will apply harder. those problems will apply in the inner city, too, won't they? >> they absolutely will. you'll need meet calculator need to meet the sap calculator options. there are epcs , you options. there are epcs, you know, gas boilers are banned on new build now anyway, so you're into electric and we've been having to do that for a number of years, which puts the price of years, which puts the price of the property up. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> along with the insulation, along with the, you know, all the sort of noise defences that we which in theory all we have, which in theory are all good ideas. are, are good ideas. they are, they are good ideas. they are, they are good but , but, good ideas. they are, they are good but, but, but of good ideas, but, but, but of course if if it's done to course if it, if it's done to the, the extent that it makes the, the extent that it makes the development unaffordable and therefore the developer can't sell it , well they won't therefore the developer can't sell it, well they won't build it in the first place or they won't convert it in the first place. so there's a balance here. local people don't get new units if they do, they're

units or if they do, they're very, expensive. so you very, very expensive. so you know, the balance sit? >> do you think there's any chance of the government reaching 300,000 new builds a year by the time of the next general election? well, to 2010? >> since 2010, the government say that there have been 2.2 million homes delivered. okay. so that's about 170,000 per annum. yeah i need 300,000. and we've got what, a year, 18 months before the next election and they've got to introduce all of these new permitted development rights. we haven't got all the devil is in the detail and we haven't we haven't seen it all. and they say they're going to resource these planning departments and introduce this stuff. introduce all this stuff. this always takes time, know, and always takes time, you know, and once the detail comes out, i guess there's got to be a new general permitted development order will need be order for that will need to be introduced. and then developers have this thing have got to feel like this thing is, and they can is, is, is real and they can actually they've got some certainty buying certainty and can start buying you know, sites. so there's no way, you know, it's too late.

there's no way this is going to happen before the next general election. >> no, but overall, you're excited by the change of language? >> i'm again, i'm really excited and i want to be excited and i really want this to happen. >> well, mark homer, we'll see where we go. thank you for joining us again here on gb news. now, i must admit i have been looking forward to the weekend, although the weekend rather disappeared, dealing with emails, press phone calls and you name it. but i did have the radio on the whole time because i've been an avid listener to test match special for all of my life since i was really rather small . and it seemed to me that small. and it seemed to me that the ashes, the cricket was really beginning to capture the public's imagination. and we've got a new style of english cricket, a swashbuckling captain. and this game we dominate and this is fantastic . dominate and this is fantastic. the series is going to be levelled at 2—2 with just the oval to go next week . and guess oval to go next week. and guess what? guess what? and it seems

to happen to the west of the pennines up there in lancashire, quite a lot. it rained and destroyed it and i reckon one man would have been as man who would have been as disappointed as i is disappointed as i was is a fellow sitting on my left, great cricket fan jacob rees—mogg. jacob, are . jacob, are. >> i know, i know. >> i know, i know. >> but to be fair , from an >> but to be fair, from an engush >> but to be fair, from an english point of view, there have been occasions when we've hopedit have been occasions when we've hoped it would rain for a couple of days to get us out of a hole. >> but not this time. >> but not this time. >> not this time. >> not this time. >> know, i know. it was so >> i know, i know. it was so bitterly disappointing and i kept on checking radio, kept on checking on the radio, on the television to see if they were coming back out all of sunday. and absolutely nothing. were coming back out all of sund.very,|d absolutely nothing. were coming back out all of sund.very, very solutely nothing. were coming back out all of sund.very, very disappointing. g. were coming back out all of survery, y, very disappointing. g. were coming back out all of survery, y, verdisappointing. 3. g. >> very, very disappointing. >> very, very disappointing. >> done so well. oh, >> but they've done so well. oh, it's entertainment value it's i mean, entertainment value has been fantastic. people are interested in cricket. again, people are talking it and people are talking about it and that's really exciting. like 2005 when suddenly everyone was talking ashes and what talking about the ashes and what i felt this was going to be even bigger. >> but it hasn't quite worked out that way. now, jacob, you have been speaking up on my banking issue. >> have. well, i think the

>> i have. well, i think the position the chief executive position of the chief executive of natwest really difficult of natwest is really difficult because apology, it because the bbc apology, it seems to me, points the finger at breaking at her without breaking journalistic principles. a senior and credible source, they've thrown her under the bus.she they've thrown her under the bus. she must deny it or resign . privacy in banking and privacy from your doctor. i don't believe in privacy laws and certainly not for public figures. i don't think we should be protected by them. but you are entitled to privacy by people with whom have people with whom you have a specific commercial relationship . banker and doctor . and your banker and doctor must be two of them. and if she has broken that code, she is not fit to bank . fit to run a bank. >> we could find out within a few minutes treasury few minutes by the treasury select committee out of select committee coming out of recess. and within the recess. this and within the first few minutes we know the answer to that question. >> a further >> you could put a further subject access request on subject data access request on her personally, because it's her personally, because if it's on she has to on her telephone, she has to reveal she's reveal it. and if she's listening she deletes listening now, if she deletes anything her telephone over anything from her telephone over the weeks, that would the last few weeks, that would be an offence. i'm on the case. >> i'm case. but >> i'm i'm on the case. but before jacob's show, well, it's

a bit late but let's see a bit late now, but let's see what weather's got to say . what the weather's got to say. >> temperature's rising . >> the temperature's rising. boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on gb news evening . weather on gb news evening. >> i'm alex deakin and this is your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. as most of us will see, some sunny spells tomorrow, but there'll still be a few showers around and a little bit on the and still a little bit on the chilly side. low pressure is edging away the is coming edging away the breeze is coming down from the north. these weather fronts have been providing some heavy showers, but the south but clearing away from the south coast evening . another one coast this evening. another one will showery rain will bring some showery rain into northern scotland overnight. a few scattered showers elsewhere , perhaps in showers elsewhere, perhaps in southwest england. southwest wales, but most will be dry and clear and temperatures will drop away down into single figures, certainly in many rural spots, towns and cities generally about 9 to 12 celsius. so for tuesday , as i said, a mix of sun and showers generally a brighter day across east anglia and the southeast. not too many showers here in the morning. mostly

across western scotland initially, but we'll see few initially, but we'll see a few more showers the day more showers through the day over southern scotland more showers through the day overespeciallyouthern scotland more showers through the day overespecially northeast:otland and especially northeast england, where we could see some heavy wales and heavy ones, parts of wales and southwest england should see lengthy, dry, bright periods . lengthy, dry, bright periods. and temperatures in the south—west may be up to 21, perhaps 22. in london. elsewhere, again, we're mostly in high teens, but the in the high teens, but the breezes will lighter , but breezes will be lighter, but quite chilly start to quite a chilly start to wednesday many fine, wednesday for many a fine, bright start. some showers again over england . but out over northern england. but out west, the cloud is gathering and west, the cloud is gathering and we see outbreaks of rain we will see outbreaks of rain pushing we go through pushing in here as we go through the afternoon . sunny spells the afternoon. sunny spells and a scattered showers a few scattered showers elsewhere. and again, temperatures high, teens, temperatures mostly high, teens, low 20s at best. >> the temperatures rising, boxt solar our proud sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> hello, good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation. tonight, the votes are in and the people have spoken. vox populi vox day against the odds, the good people of uxbndge odds, the good people of uxbridge have firmly rejected sadiq khan's costly ulez expansion by voting for conservative candidate now mp steve tuckwell . there is great steve tuckwell. there is great hope for the conservative party if we listen to the people. and here's a taste of what they have to say . to say. >> i just don't like it because this is middle sex. it's not london. >> and speaking of uxbridge, wicked lies have been spread about the former prime minister by a man suffering from the most egregious case of boris spongiform encephalopathy . spongiform encephalopathy. marcus ball, the failed entrepreneur turned filmmaker who claims , shockingly, that who claims, shockingly, that bofis who claims, shockingly, that boris lied about the extent of his suffering from covid 19 new symptoms of bse have emerged,

which include the pot