and today, a big day for a—level students. results are in. i have to say that the education secretary says that in ten years time, nobody will even care what your results were. is she right.7 i'm asking , how results were. is she right.7 i'm asking, how important are qualifications when it comes to life generally of course, if you're going to be a brain surgeon, i get it. but more generally, in life, useful, necessary or not. and did you know in this country, over 10 million people spend their time caring for loved ones? there's now people saying that these

folks should effectively receive a salary for doing so. do you agree with that? and rishi sunak has been accused of rolling out the carpet. why because the red carpet. why because apparently he's inviting the crown prince of saudi arabia to visit the uk . what do you make visit the uk. what do you make to this? we be welcoming to this? should we be welcoming the of a country with the leader of a country with less pretty diabolical less visa, a pretty diabolical human rights record? or is all fair when it comes to trade and international relations? we've got it all to come and more. but before we get into it, let's bnng before we get into it, let's bring ourselves up to speed, shall with latest shall we, with the latest headunes shall we, with the latest headlines with middlehurst headlines with polly middlehurst i >> lama >> michelle, thank you . good >> michelle, thank you. good evening. well, tributes are being paid to the legendary broadcaster sir michael parkinson, who died after a short illness at the age of 88. sir michael became one of the country's most famous faces through his long running tv talk show , interviewing some of the show, interviewing some of the world's biggest stars, including muhammad ali and billy connolly . the comedian stephen fry described him as an authentic

genius and said it had been impossible , thrilling to be one impossible, thrilling to be one of his guests on the parkinson's show. so david attenborough has also said sir michael went beyond region or class. he was just himself . he died at home just himself. he died at home surrounded by his family. just himself. he died at home surrounded by his family . gb surrounded by his family. gb news has delivered the don't kill cash petition to downing street. the chancellor, jeremy hunt , taking delivery of almost hunt, taking delivery of almost 300,000 signatures from our presenters . on behalf of viewers presenters. on behalf of viewers and listeners who've joined the campaign, the letter calls on the government to protect the status of cash as legal tender and a widely accepted form of payment until at least 2050. around 73,000 fewer ayes or a star's have been awarded this year to students compared to last year as part of a plan to return grades to pre pandemic levels. results in 2020 and 2021 were based on teacher assessments and the number of students accepted for a place at

universities. also down by 2.6% from last year. the chief of ucas says the rising cost of living is among the factors impacting education with more students seeking part time employment . and as you've been employment. and as you've been hearing, the saudi crown prince has reportedly been asked to visit the uk , rishi sunak and visit the uk, rishi sunak and mohammed bin salman spoke earlier today, we understand, to discuss trade, investment, defence and security cooperation. the saudi crown prince has been accused of ordering the assassination of the washington post writer jamal khashoggi at the saudi consulate in istanbul in 2018. a charge he's denied the deputy labour leader, angela rayner , says it's leader, angela rayner, says it's important that britain holds the saudis to account . saudis to account. >> it's important as part of that visit that the prime minister speaks about the human rights and the issues. we have really deep concerns about that. but you also have to have dialogue. so it's important that, you know, whilst he's over here, that there dialogue

here, that there is dialogue there we do challenge, there and that we do challenge, you know, part of our role in international is to challenge other nations as well and countries and say, look, you know, this is not what we accept and this is not how you do things. and to try and influence in that way. >> gb news can reveal that 80 migrants are currently being housed at a former raf base in essex. that's more than a month after the first group of migrants arrived there. the wethersfield, based near braintree in essex, is eventually meant to house up to 1700 people. the home office is saying there will be a gradual increase in numbers admitted, but sources close to plans suggest the pace will be significantly slower than was first envisioned. the site has had reports of disease amongst the first group of migrants and there are problems with utilities working properly . gb utilities working properly. gb news can reveal 550 people cross the english channel in ten small boats this morning and over the last 24 hours. it brings the

number of migrants who've now made that journey this year to more than 17,500 uk border force say they're on red alert during what they're describing as an extremely busy time for asylum seekers to cross the english channel. and a significant surge in crossings is expected this weekend as weather conditions improve in the united states. a woman from texas has been charged with threatening to kill a federal judge in one of the cases against the former president donald trump. district judge tanya khan was the alleged victim of the threat and racist comment . according to court comment. according to court records . the woman is said to records. the woman is said to have contacted the federal courthouse in washington , dc by courthouse in washington, dc by telephone. judge chuck khan is overseeing one of the court cases involving trump's alleged attempt to overturn the 2020 us election . now, thousands of election. now, thousands of people have had to be evacuated from their homes on the spanish island of tenerife as wildfires

continue to spread . the fire is continue to spread. the fire is now 99mi2 wide, destroying dry woodland in a mountainous national park and volcano on spain's highest peak and that is hampering access to the area . hampering access to the area. some 250 firefighters have been sent to the scene, backed up by firefighting planes and helicopters , which have also helicopters, which have also been deployed . and thousands of been deployed. and thousands of canadians have been evacuated from parts of the northwest territories, including the provincial capital, yellowknife , because of wildfires there, too . canada is enduring its too. canada is enduring its worst wildfire season, with more than 1000 active fires burning across the country. 230 of those in the remote northwest territories . that's the news territories. that's the news here with gb news across the uk on your tv, in your car, on your digital radio. and now on your smart speaker by saying play gb news this is britain's news.

channel 4. >> thanks for that, hollywood. i'm michelle dewberry. i'm keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight. the historian broadcaster david historian and broadcaster david starkey me as is the starkey alongside me as is the author and academic frank ferretti. good evening, gentlemen . you're kind of semi gentlemen. you're kind of semi colour coordinating tonight. was that planned? absolutely >> i called him up and i said, what are you wearing this morning? you being. morning? did you being. >> totally vain? not i. >> being totally vain? not i. >> being totally vain? not i. >> well, i didn't get the memo . >> well, i didn't get the memo. they didn't call me every. >> it didn't look, i'm much >> but it didn't look, i'm much more distinguished, much subtler. >> i'm saying nothing. >> i'm saying nothing. >> frank clearly is just off the p99- >> frank clearly is just off the peg. well all right off the peg. p99- >> apparently. that's right. but a good will, a good peg, an expensive peg. there you go. right you know the drill, don't you? on dewbs & co get in touch you? on dewbs& co get in touch with us. let me know your thoughts on everything tonight. whatever is on your mind. gb views. should be news .com. views. that should be news .com. or you tweet me at gb news. or you can tweet me at gb news. now, of course, let's just kick off show. kick off any off the show. we kick off any other where can we perhaps other

than reflecting the british than reflecting on the british broadcasting you've just broadcasting legend you've just been in the headlines been hearing in the headlines there, parkinson there, sir michael parkinson parky of course, he's died very sadly after a brief illness. i mean, pretty much everyone we all know who he is, loved him. yorkshireman through and through some fantastic moments. you've been seeing some of them already . let's just reflect on another , isn't it? >> it's not, no . how are you. >> it's not, no. how are you. >> thank you . oh >> thank you. oh >> thank you. oh >> oh. a man with a puppet life was so much simpler in those days, wasn't he? many people feeling very sad today. 80. a great innings. a man that achieved a huge amount in his life . frank, what do you feel ? life. frank, what do you feel? >> i know. i agree. the thing that kind of came to my mind was

that kind of came to my mind was that in those days, come monday morning , everybody would talk morning, everybody would talk about this one show. everybody would talk about him. and in those days it was still possible for the entire nation to have a common conversation about an individual like him, whereas today it's so fragmented and so polarised. but the thing that i remember about him were his wonderful interviews with george best, who was one of my heroes, and the idea that you have this kind of big mouth footballer being interviewed by by a much more sort of gentleman like individual was such a nice contrast. and they worked so well together . i contrast. and they worked so well together. i mean, contrast. and they worked so well together . i mean, it was well together. i mean, it was genuine affection. there which transmitted itself to everybody watching it. it's something that to me was the most precious memory of his reign on television . yeah, true. television. yeah, true. >> david i didn't know parkinson , but i knew well, russell harty, who was for a long period of time, is great rival. >> and we mustn't take these

people too seriously. they weren't taken terribly. they just television like us and they weren't taken terribly seriously at the time. and the notion indeed , in those days that you indeed, in those days that you would have actually given them a knighthood was preposterous . i knighthood was preposterous. i remember the wonderful moment in does clive james, you will remember clive james. he wrote this marvellous satire on the 1960s when i was very much functioning in the early 70s and it was called the adventures of felicity fog , and it was called the adventures of felicity fog, and i'm afraid you can substitute other vowels in that in the land of the media. and he had this it had this marvellous moment in which russell harty and michael parkinson were reduced to interviewing each other's mothers . and, you know, we must mothers. and, you know, we must not take it too seriously . it's not take it too seriously. it's only tv. but i think frank's made one important point. the sense that because there were so few channels, this supplied a point of unity and conversation

. but look again, the scene we just saw there, can you imagine that you wouldn't get away with it in this day. exactly. and michael was relatively, dare i say straight . well, he was very say straight. well, he was very straight indeed. russell was immense , silly, outrageously immense, silly, outrageously camp, though. of course not. frankly homosexual. and the what was going on then wasn't simply this one conversation. it was a constant pushing of boundaries. what we see now is a constant closing down when even the edinburgh fringe has turned puritanical, they were the anti puritans . well, they were the puritans. well, they were the breakers of barriers . breakers of barriers. >> life was a lot simpler. it wasn't simply we. >> we were making it more complicated . but the thing complicated. but the thing people are trying to do now is to make it simple to think about what they were doing. >> which we really missing is that spontaneous interaction. yes it was genuine live tv, yes it was genuine in live tv, you were kind of making it up as you were kind of making it up as you along sensed you went along and you sensed that a

that there was something, a dynamic which you could dynamic there which you could not in advance. not predict in advance. >> got to in >> well, i've got to say, in case you considering it, don't jump case you considering it, don't jump on me, gents with a hand puppet, i'd find it very odd. i've to it would be i've got to say, it would be terrible to your hair and terrible things to your hair and make has been in such make no. sean has been in such saying. watch parky saying. our family watch parky every week. he was a one every single week. he was a one off treasure. and that is the point that frank was just making there. around, there. people did gather around, wasn't was a national wasn't it? and it was a national conversation individual conversation with an individual at heart of it, but a life at the heart of it, but a life well lived 88 years, as i said , well lived 88 years, as i said, he was a keen cricket lover as well, is a very, very good innings to him. right i have to say, if you're a keen viewer of gb news, you will be familiar perhaps with our don't kill cash campaign, something we feel very passionate about here on this channel. you know, in society , channel. you know, in society, we're all different people with different choices . if you want different choices. if you want to play by your debit card, if you want to pay online, good, brilliant. but if you also choose to pay by cash, we feel very passionately that you should be able to do so. so with

the help of all of you guys at home, almost 300,000 of you, to be precise , what we trying on? be precise, what we trying on? we're trying very hard and we're not going to stop trying to make the government sit up and listen . we handed a petition into downing today. there we downing street today. there we all are gathered around number 11, the door , and we're going to 11, the door, and we're going to keep fighting for this . frank, keep fighting for this. frank, what do you feel about this nofion what do you feel about this notion that cash is disappearing 7 notion that cash is disappearing ? businesses proudly declare we are a cashless zone . are a cashless zone. >> well, you know, money and credit cards are not kind of equivalents either physical or moral equivalence , because when moral equivalence, because when i use money, when i use cash, i'm pretty much an anonymous individual . i'm pretty much an anonymous individual. i can make decisions about where i buy stuff, what i buy. nobody knows how i spend my money. whereas once you rely on credit cards , then you really credit cards, then you really are in the hands of these big companies who can both keep an eye on you. but even more importantly , we have this importantly, we have this phenomenal degree of

phenomenal amount of degree of control over your everyday life. and don't know if you've ever and i don't know if you've ever had when you try had the experience when you try to credit card and it goes to use a credit card and it goes rejected somebody in the rejected because somebody in the credit card company made a mistake , imagine if you're skint mistake, imagine if you're skint , are you skin? imagine if you if your entire life is dependent on this credit card . what a lot on this credit card. what a lot of problems that creates . but of problems that creates. but we're still imagine what it does to elderly people . imagine what to elderly people. imagine what it does to people who are maybe a little bit illiterate when it comes to using digital technology and i've seen just a couple of days ago an old lady literally crying because she couldn't get the right kind of numbers in using her credit at the co—op. and those kinds of experiences are going to become more and more prominent. experiences are going to become more and more prominent . and we more and more prominent. and we know already from the experience of sweden, where they try this horrible experiment that it does cause a lot of grief for a lot of people in our society. so a great campaign i fully supported and i do think we need to allow

people to have more freedom making choices about how they spend their money. >> do you agree, david? >> do you agree, david? >> yes. i mean, of course, in principle i with every principle i agree with every single word frank said in single word that frank said in practise i try and avoid carrying cash as much as possible. it's a nuisance . i possible. it's a nuisance. i hate change. the simplicity of using the card is overwhelming and of course it's also true the other way round . and again, we other way round. and again, we need to look at the practical. it's the practical implications of this. remember one of the reasons that shops are so keen to do this, they eliminate risk. they eliminate the risk of carrying cash, the risk of robbery . they eliminate the robbery. they eliminate the trouble of taking it to a bank because, of course, there's no longer a neighbourhood bank. there's no longer an easy way of getting rid of the cash. so it's part, i'm afraid , of what i part, i'm afraid, of what i think is an irreversible movement to towards effectively a faceless, remote , a faceless, remote, electronically enabled society .

electronically enabled society. and i think, i'm sorry, we're going to have to get used to it. >> well, i don't agree with that because i think there's too many things, isn't aren't the. >> sorry, sorry . again, i've >> sorry, sorry. again, i've conceded the point. everything frank said was right. no, i'm saying not all. all the pressures overwhelming . i'm pressures overwhelming. i'm sorry. a little petition to downing street with an obscure station, which we are , you know, station, which we are, you know, making weepy noises on the steps of number 11 isn't going to change. but i agree with your fundamental point, which is what you're saying is essentially this is changing. >> so we just have to accept with it. i don't share that view . i think that what happened was dunng . i think that what happened was during covid, people use covid as an excuse to try and ease in these cashless environments. they started making all ridiculous excuses such as or it was touching things. it was touching that at touching cash. it wasn't that at all. now what i think is all. and now what i think is actually happening that we're actually happening is that we're moving more and more towards digital particularly digital currencies, particularly centrally controlled digital currencies . and i reject that.

currencies. and i reject that. and actually i don't share that nofion and actually i don't share that notion of saying all it's inevitable. so let's just sit there. you know, it doesn't matter to me whether, yes, we're not you know, we're not whatever you really like . you really like. >> do you have time to go into a supermarket and find out where your favourite processed peas are? because i don't i don't eat processed peas, by the way. but the sheer convenience. sorry of onune the sheer convenience. sorry of online is why it's your choice, but you're being a little bit cynical . cynical. >> a different choice if someone's making a choice to pay by cash and this is what we're pushing against. if you pushing back against. if you want convenience not want the convenience of not having look for your having to look for your processed good for having to look for your proc

terms of accounting. now we are going to have to face this , but going to have to face this, but this real sorry, the real world, the old world that you want to preserve , i'm afraid it's going preserve, i'm afraid it's going to be a bit like a series of historic monuments. >> why? why do you assume that we have to live in a world where there's only one regime for this kind of transactions? and what do you assume? no, no, i'm perfect. >> i've just said you've got to recognise that one will be more expensive than other. not. expensive than the other. not. >> necessarily. why should >> not necessarily. why should we a lot of people who we exclude a lot of people who find it almost impossible to use digital technology? why do we why do we charge them more ? why do we charge them more? >> i'm afraid to have a coin operate in metre because it's more expensive to run at the moment. >> credit cards are more expensive . so for most shops, expensive. so for most shops, when you use a credit card, they pay, when you use a credit card, they pay, they when you use a credit card, they pay, they pay when you use a credit card, they pay, they pay a premium on the credit card. but the way they don't, it still cheaper for them because they don't have the machinery of dealing cash. machinery of dealing with cash. >> there's flaw in argument. >> i'm sorry, frank. they are not shifting. >> not shifting to a

>> they're not shifting to a cashless society for our convenience. they're shifting to it from there. >> absolutely. we have got to stand up for convenience. yes >> and as long as you're prepared to pay more for your primitive. i'm sorry. i'm the historian your primitive historian for your primitive historicist instincts. but the flaw in your argument, because of what you're saying is that the retailer is going to pass on the retailer is going to pass on the cost of sales to the consumer. >> so therefore, you transacting in cash should pay more. it doesn't. doesn't to me doesn't. doesn't stand up to me because if the cost of sale is less, you sacking all your less, i.e. you sacking all your checkout like what i was checkout people like what i was and you're replacing those people technology. people with technology. so therefore to therefore you've got to a reduction in your cost of sales. you're not passing on, you're not passing that on, you're giving people you're not giving people a reduction their prices reduction in their prices because of a sudden because all of a sudden you've got these savings of laying got these cost savings of laying half workforce off. so half your workforce off. so if you don't it on that way, you don't pass it on that way, then i think should then i think you should absolutely reject absolutely fundamentally reject the between the relationship between the interest charge and interest that bank charge and the that banks pay . the interest that banks pay. >> oh, don't get me. >> oh, don't get me. >> even get me started on >> don't even get me started on that one. there you go. we're off to a flying start. what do

you make to this whole cash conversation if want to conversation? if you do want to keep cash, would you be to keep your cash, would you be to prepared maybe you prepared pay more? maybe you would don't you get in would. i don't know. you get in touch and tell me up next after the break, qualification education. important is all education. how important is all of this stuff when it comes to life generally in this country? it's a—level results day today

>> you're listening to news radio . radio. >> hello, michelle dewberry keeping you company until 7:00 tonight. the historian and broadcaster david starkey. alongside me is the author and academic frank freddie . lots of academic frank freddie. lots of people getting in touch, saying, i've always agreed with everything that david says. that's a tall order there, he says. but when it comes to cash and the views there , my view and the views there, my view says that you're absolutely wrong. david divide opinion. i have to say, when it comes to whether or not cash is king and if you do worship at the altar of the pennies, should you have to pay more to transact when it

comes to your goods? i comes to buying your goods? i say not. but what say absolutely not. but what says you anyway? let's talk qualifications, shall we? it's a—level results day to day now. loads of teenagers up and down the land will be getting all of their bits of paper, some of them good, some them them feeling good, some of them feeling less good. and of course, year has got the course, this year has got the added complication the added complication because the way grades are way the way that grades are given is basically gone back given out is basically gone back to how used to be, apparently to how it used to be, apparently before covid anyway, the education secretary, she's been saying that, you know what, if you didn't get your grades that you didn't get your grades that you worry about it, you want, don't worry about it, because decade's because in about a decade's time, be asking you time, no one will be asking you about your grades anyway. but never time. i'm never mind a decade's time. i'm asking important are asking how important are qualifications? just want asking how important are quget cations? just want asking how important are quget onions? just want asking how important are quget on in s? just want asking how important are quget on in life just want asking how important are quget on in life generally want to get on in life generally keeping me company. as i mentioned, i've got david and frank, i've also got a new frank, but i've also got a new face. look, i've squeezed them in here because i'm very tight. >> look at the width. yeah, it's very. >> yeah, it's a tight squeeze. what can i say? it's a tight squeeze. this is a man, matt ford's very successful self—made man , i have to say. he earns

man, i have to say. he earns a chain of martial arts companies. self—made millionaire. so he is. but i want to start with you. you are an academic, frank. so i suspect that you're going to think that qualification education are very important to today's society . today's society. >> well, this should be very important, but the trouble is, is that you universities in particular, have become overblown . we need to cut them overblown. we need to cut them down to size because there's far too many of them, far too many people feel that they have to go to university even though they're bored out of their skull. think that if skull. and i think that if something like 40% of the people in universities now were to do something else, everybody would benefit the unions would be a better place. they would have a greater life because they're wasting their time sitting, doing they don't doing something they don't really like. and i think the key thing for us to understand is that we need to have a new balance between academic learning credentials you learning and the credentials you get the recognition you get get and the recognition you get for and same time, for that. and at the same time, understanding that what people do in the rest of the industry

and the rest of the world is as important for society. we need to have really good plumbers, really good electricians, really good entrepreneurs , and many of good entrepreneurs, and many of these people do not need to have a piece of paper that tells the world that they're good at what they're doing. that's something that through they're doing. that's something that experience. through they're doing. that's something that experience. butthrough they're doing. that's something that experience. but getting their experience. but getting that right is so that balance right is so important that have both important so that we have both great skills at our disposal. we're also good education. >> david yes, i mean , so many we >> david yes, i mean, so many we should really can we just concentrate for the moment on the actual question, does the a—level that you get today or yesterday or whatever it is, matter for most people, it actually does . actually does. >> it will determine whether they can do what they want and i think it's also something else which is very important. but if you actually look, let's look at two groups. let's look at immigrant groups. one of the reasons that indians and chinese of origin are doing in some west africans are doing a

astonishingly well in this country . and indeed, jews country. and indeed, jews historically is because they take education spectacularly seriously and they're increasingly taking over whole professions of pharmacy , of professions of pharmacy, of medicine, of all sorts of things . and a very good thing to , on . and a very good thing to, on the other hand , there are other the other hand, there are other groups, white working class boys and their families that don't take education seriously , and take education seriously, and they're progressively immigrating. they're progressively immigrating . so in other words, immigrating. so in other words, let me just put this to the education secretary. she is actually deliberately attacking the notion of serious social mobility . if you were rich, if mobility. if you were rich, if you were comfortable, if you've been to public school, if your family is prosperous and has wide connections, an internship , somebody that daddy knows , , somebody that daddy knows, somebody that mummy goes writing with can get you on. if you like me . if you come from a council me. if you come from a council estate and you're the first

generation not simply to have gone to university , but in my gone to university, but in my case to secondary school doing well in that exam opened the gate to me that what otherwise have been closed. i wouldn't be here. but for the results that i got at a—level . got at a—level. >> well, let me bring you. >> well, let me bring you. >> many people might think what a pity didn't fail, but that's an entirely no no. >> they love you. matt, let me bnng >> they love you. matt, let me bring you in because you didn't you don't have pathway of you don't have this pathway of academia are a very, academia and you are a very, very successful martial arts guru. schools all over the place, self—made , place, self—made, multi—millionaire business worth about £120 million. so why don't you look at what draw me? >> i'm not going to change. >> i'm not going to change. >> ignore him . ignore him. yeah. >> ignore him. ignore him. yeah. >> ignore him. ignore him. yeah. >> tell me . so. so you didn't >> tell me. so. so you didn't you didn't follow that route . you didn't follow that route. you didn't feel that that was important to you? >> i tried my best, michel, but it was school system, which is not for me. i think what you're saying there's some truth to it. you mentioned pharmacy and stuff like you want to be a

like that. if you want to be a doctor, an accountant, a lawyer, a professional, a professional professional, you're to have you're going to have to have a—levels, that a—levels, gcses and go on that path. if you're going to want to make money and be an entrepreneur employ people entrepreneur to employ people and opportunities, do and offer opportunities, you do not those not need all those qualifications want qualifications unless you want to big company. well, to go into a big company. well, not necessarily, most not necessarily, because most business business, business schools, business, university, if you go to a business degree, you're getting taught by a business lecturer who's educating about who's educating you about business. owned business. he's never owned a business. he's never owned a business before it'd be like to business before. it'd be like to go into a sermon instructor who can't it's deeply bizarre can't swim. it's deeply bizarre . me, i teach . so with me, i teach entrepreneurs make entrepreneurs now how to make money. scale money and invest money. is scale money and invest in and what's good, in property. and what's good, what's debt, how to really what's bad debt, how to really grow and expand and the exam site and i have a lot of 1500 centres and we don't look at qualifications. we look at ambition. >> when you look for someone, right, someone needs to grow one of my schools or take care of marketing or whatever. honestly, do you not attention to that do you not pay attention to that person's qualified questions? >> i want at it a >> no, i want to look at it a determination how politely i have their have respect for their their ambition, their are, ambition, what their goals are, where want to be in life.

where they want to be in life. then them where they then i'll teach them where they need be through the of need to be through the school of hard knocks and learn learning the it just needs the right way. it just all needs updating. mean, kids are being updating. i mean, kids are being taught dinosaurs so taught to draw dinosaurs and so on. has to be an element on. there has to be an element of structure, otherwise kids aren't up and so on. >> but does literacy matter? does the fact that they can read, and count? does the fact that they can rea�*well, and count? does the fact that they can rea�*well, i and count? does the fact that they can rea�*well, i can't:ount? does the fact that they can rea�*well, i can't write. no, no. >> well, i can't write. no, no. i'm sorry. >> no, come on. we're having a serious conversation. does literacy matter? does the fact that clearly that they can speak clearly write and do a write a clear sentence and do a bit of a everything? >> they definitely need to be able to obviously, as far able to read? obviously, as far as handwriting, write. as handwriting, you can't write. well, write to myself, well, i can write to myself, michelle, no one else will understand. >> you're dyslexic. >> you're dyslexic. >> don't have that word >> yeah, we don't have that word for back i just wasn't for it. back then, i just wasn't very at school and very good at school and they said i was right handed. i turned out to be left handed. it's too late. they can do anything about it so i can scribble myself. it's scribble to myself. but it's nice, aren't you really an exception? >> you see, i think this the >> you see, i think this is the problem up with problem that we can come up with constant exceptions. sorry. and i'm not being patronising. no, i mean, those exactly mean, i'm one of those exactly like think like frank. i think our

universities overblown. universities are overblown. i think the way academics, think the way we've academics, these subjects is these subjects at school is purpose, stress and so on and so on. but you you are one in on. but you are. you are one in many thousands. on. but you are. you are one in many thousands . frank and i are many thousands. frank and i are one in 1 or 2 hundreds. in other words, the path that we are talking about is the one which is quite generally available. you're a narrow gate and to pretend otherwise i think is wrong and is misleading. you require much more active force and character to do what you did than what certainly we did to begin with . the fact that we've begin with. the fact that we've got on and become relatively famous. yes. well, i can tell you, i could say i've got a little boy, and if my son has a fraction because i want my i don't care about qualifications. >> i don't i think it's about character. it's about get up and go. it's about confidence. it's about, you know, wheeling and deaung about, you know, wheeling and dealing and hustling. and that's what i want. my son to develop and to and if he gets some and to gain. and if he gets some qualifications along the way. >> is alan sugar really your

ideal? >> for my ideal? what person do you really want that? >> do you really want your child to grow up like that ? to grow up like that? >> i mean, aren't you aren't, you know your son? aren't you. aren't you. aren't you often i mean the classic image. i don't know where you would call an image the. image of the. >> i was going to say, get out of the way. are you. but it's a black belt, so i'd better not sure if you asked me a question and then you don't let me answer you just said to me, is alan sugar ideal man? well, sugar my ideal man? well, i don't want on a date and don't want to go on a date and marry the guy. no don't. but marry the guy. no i don't. but when look at this person, alan when i look at this person, alan suganl when i look at this person, alan sugar, i have deep admiration for he's for him. i think what he's achieved, phoney and fraud. >> who destroyed british computing? >> no, this is true. >> no, this is true. >> he's missed. sorry. being genuinely serious is mishandling of is one the reasons of amstrad is one of the reasons that do not have a home—grown that we do not have a home—grown computing. that's the point. >> well the point is that random tangent. it's a really important point. >> the point is that we need people who can get up in the morning are strong willed, morning who are strong willed, who reliable, and it who can be reliable, and it

doesn't whether they have who can be reliable, and it d> get a message all day. but i run a kids organiser. you naturally that happens. that doesn't it's so doesn't mean anything. it's so in people who are going in fact the people who are going to employ people with to employ all these people with a—levels going a—levels are going to be entrepreneurs myself who a—levels are going to be entrejup�*neurs myself who a—levels are going to be entrejup these myself who a—levels are going to be entrejup these businesses,nho a—levels are going to be entrejup these businesses, taking open up these businesses, taking these risks. my these risks. most of my multi—millionaire billionaire friends with friends are people with no qualification. so that's the fact. is proven fact. fact. that is a proven fact. they do well at school. they didn't do well at school. there point at there was some pain point at their which made them their childhood which made them go and do really well. so go off and do really well. so it's that create it's entrepreneur that create the these the opportunities for these people you do people of a—levels. you can do anything long as you anything you want long as you believe it, believe it, dream and achieve it, and they should use motivate to and achieve it, and they should useback motivate to and achieve it, and they should useback there late to and achieve it, and they should useback there and to and achieve it, and they should useback there and look to and achieve it, and they should useback there and look for to go back there and look for alternative ways. well, there you if you alternative ways. well, there yoqu you if your kids,

>> if you if your kids, grandkids or whatever fails, you can clip that up. you can play it later. it's getting it to them later. it's getting hot here. what's is the hot in here. what's is the weather doing outside that warm feeling from boxt boilers weather doing outside that warm feelingsponsors'om boxt boilers weather doing outside that warm feelingsponsors of] boxt boilers weather doing outside that warm feelingsponsors of weather oilers weather doing outside that warm feelingsponsors of weather on. rs weather doing outside that warm feelingsponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hi there. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast. you will nofice the gb news forecast. you will notice the increased humid 80 dunng notice the increased humid 80 during the nights next few nights, windy and cloudy conditions starting to appear as well. and an increased risk of showers and thunderstorms as the weekend approaches. high pressure moving away, lower pressure moving away, lower pressure approaching isobars tightening. the wind picks up overnight . that window is overnight. that window is bringing higher humidities across the uk , an increase in across the uk, an increase in the cloud as well . some showers the cloud as well. some showers affecting eastern parts of britain, but heavier downpours arriving by the of the night arriving by the end of the night across northern ireland, wales into southern into central and southern england. night england. and it's a muggy night for sleeping 1718 celsius the for sleeping 1718 celsius in the south, 13 to 15 celsius in the north. those winds of concern , north. those winds of concern, especially across parts of northwest wales as we go through

friday, 50 mile per hour wind gust, perhaps more in some of the gusty spots could impact travel, tourism. and so on and heavy showers, even some thunderstorms across parts of central and southern england dunng central and southern england during friday morning. frequent lightning, heavy rainfall as well. they diminish into the afternoon . it's a warm and humid afternoon. it's a warm and humid day, but a lot of cloud and that breeze will limit temperatures then friday night. so that's then on friday night. so that's when action takes when a lot of action takes place. rain sweeping place. heavy rain sweeping through very lively through risk of some very lively thunderstorms the east of thunderstorms in the east of england the persistent rain england and the persistent rain on saturday continues into the north scotland , northern north of scotland, northern ireland and some, well, heavy rain at times throughout the weekend across northern parts of the further south, it's the uk. further south, it's sunny spells and showers and still warm . that still staying quite warm. that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers >> proud sponsors of weather on . gb news, they go down speed in touch say michelle, what a fantastic sight at the start of your programme. >> seeing the gb news squad on downing street, he says, what a

sight that would be if we were in office. can you imagine? he said he would like nigel to be the prime minister. michelle how about the secretary about you? as the home secretary 7 about you? as the home secretary ? i'll you to have sweet ? i'll leave you to have sweet dreams about that one. i'm not sure going to happen any sure it's going to happen any time soon. ian says there's far too many people doing value too many people doing low value work degrees which will get them into massive debt with probably no career at the end of no useful career at the end of the course. he says apprenticeships would be far better for so many young people . i agree with you, but i do think there is a bit of a snob free intellectual snobbery. sometimes it comes sometimes when it comes to putting into the putting your kids into the apprenticeship route, alan says. frank is totally correct about our education system . i have our education system. i have very successful friends who have never stepped foot into a university . universities are university. universities are indoctrinated in camps, says carol. if you want to achieve anything in life, you can just do it on your own steam. well, there you go. i want to talk to you. up next about unpaid carers. are you one of them? do you use one of them? do you

think these people should be paid essentially a wage? your thoughts

listening to news radio. >> hello, i'm michelle dewberry seven, the historian and broadcaster david starkey alongside me, as is the author and academic frank for radio now , did you know that there is about well over actually 10 million people apparently in this country that are essentially unpaid carers . they essentially unpaid carers. they are busy looking after their loved ones? well, there's been conversations now because a lot of these people are really taking financial hit as taking a financial hit as conversations or conversations about whether or not, these should not, frank, these people should essentially a proper essentially be paid a proper wage. yes, there's something the carer's allowance allowance, about seven year old quid a week. beyond that, you know, week. but beyond that, you know, you're saving taxpayer a lot you're saving the taxpayer a lot of should it be of money. should it be essentially salaried job to essentially a salaried job to care for your loved one? well i'm going be very unpopular, i'm going to be very unpopular, but really think even the but i really think that even the very of the term unpaid very use of the term unpaid carer , i think is highly dubious

carer, i think is highly dubious because as when you care for somebody , it's really about a somebody, it's really about a relationship . relationship. >> it's not about a transaction. you know, when i looked after my mother when she was very, very ill and working at the same time, the issue for me wasn't how much money i would get for that, but it was about my love for her and i would express that. and also the fact that we live in a world where whether we like or we have elderly like it or not, we have elderly relatives and elderly parents, people need look after them. people need to look after them. and is part of it and this is part of life. it might be grim that you're not going to be to work or it going to be able to work or it might be grim that, for example, you that you're you feel that you're economically disadvantaged by that. if we turn what is that. but if we turn what is a fundamental human relationship into a cash transaction, then what we're doing is we're further eroding the bonds, that kind of tie us together. >> how do you support this? that's all well and good. if you've got savings or whatever, but if you don't have savings, how do you literally keep your head above water? >> well, you raise a very important question. >> think the way around

>> and i think the way around that sure that the that is to make sure that the allowances that people get , if, allowances that people get, if, for example, they're not able to work because they have to look after a disabled relative is sufficient to make their ends meet. but it shouldn't be a wage , it shouldn't be a salary. it should be something a welfare resource that allows people under those circumstances to survive and to carry on with life. but i think it is just really, really quite important that caring is seen as something we do as part of our human existence, an extension of love and not exactly transaction. >> i mean , let me >> david yes, i mean, let me begin by being brutal, and then i'll come back to kind of i'll come back to the kind of points frank has been points that frank has been making, the brutal truth that making, the brutal truth is that we have an exchequer which is collapsing under the burdens we're putting on we cannot we're putting on it. we cannot possibly take on more responsibilities . the state responsibilities. the state cannot assume any more responsibility. and one of the reasons that this is where i shift gear, one of the reasons that the british state has to take on so much responsible

party is that in comparison with many other countries , ireland, many other countries, ireland, it's france most of the mediterranean world, the southeast asia and whatever are family structures are very weak. we tend to see looking after the elderly as a bore and a chore . elderly as a bore and a chore. we're very keen to inherit their houses. we pack them off into care homes as quickly as possible and complain if we have to pay for it or complain if the amount that you get from the house is diminished. but our weak family structures have also advantages. one of the reasons that capital ism and whatever develop in the anglo—saxon world is precisely our fierce individual ism. but the downside , i'm afraid, is weak family structures. and the point is , structures. and the point is, frank, you are the sociologist . frank, you are the sociologist. i am not one of the reasons that welfare payments are so huge in our in anglo—saxon society in

britain is precisely because our family is so weak and people refuse to assume the responsibility that you're talking about . responsibility that you're talking about. is that responsibility that you're talking about . is that not talking about. is that not right? >> but and exactly. and i would argue that if you commercialise caring, even more, then that will weaken the family far more thoroughly than is the case. then can we then just turn the debate around? >> michel, what we should surely be talking about is not, as it were, pay ing carers. we should be talking about how do we actually reinforce the broader family unit, how do we you see, this seems to me to be the absolutely central point. we've done everything in terms of tax, in terms of how you tax married couples to separate the family unit to stop people seeing it. well there you go. >> that is a fantastic debate. i think certainly one that needs slightly more time than i've got left on the end of the programme. but we can do that another day. how do we reinforce the family unit, the family structure, do think structure, do you think we

incentivise in this country incentivise them in this country or not? i'll you people or not? i'll tell you people that perhaps should be incentivised the crown prince of saudi arabia, apparently rishi sunak inviting him to this country. some saying that he's going to roll out the red carpet should we be doing for a country that has quite dubious regime ? that has quite dubious regime? you tell me

hello there, michelle dewberry till seven alongside the historian and broadcaster david starkey and the author and academic frank farideh, which has been talking about whether or in the home should or not carers in the home should essentially be paid a wage dividing opinion on this one, i can tell you larry feels very strongly that basically he says it's a terrible idea, essentially open to too much abuse. diane says anyone that thinks it shouldn't be paid should try doing it for one week and see whether or not they change their view. rachel is an unpaid care, as she says. it's not just about money. perhaps if

places give better concessions to carers , she says that that to carers, she says that that might help make life a little bit easier for people to now rishi in trouble again rishi sunak in trouble again today when in, not quite today when he's in, not quite frankly, apparently this frankly, anyway. apparently this time because it looks time it's because it looks likely that he is going to be what some are saying, rolling out the carpet the out the red carpet to the saudis. saudi crown prince . of saudis. saudi crown prince. of course, the reason that this is potentially controversial is because the human rights record, etcetera, in saudi arabia, frank, is less than less than desirable, to put it mildly . and desirable, to put it mildly. and some people are saying that we shouldn't be entertained in the crown prince at all. where are you on it? >> i think we should think >> i think we should i think that realpolitik moral ism that realpolitik and moral ism do mix well . britain's got a do not mix well. britain's got a strategic interest in maintaining good relations with saudi arabia. that doesn't mean to say we have to welcome them or pretend that saudi arabia is anything but what it really is. and where there is no real human rights, which probably despotic state, have to remember, state, but you have to remember,

there are many, many countries in this world that we have to live with that have a human rights record that just as bad as saudi arabia. we can't as saudi arabia. and we can't really of declare that we really sort of declare that we are more holy living in a distinct island that doesn't deal with the real world. and what i'm really worried about is whenever diplo policy gets subjected to a moralistic agenda , because if you do that, then we lose sight of our national interest. and i think the national interest from a moral point of view must prevail over any other sentiment . because if any other sentiment. because if we want to get ahead in the world and compete and look after our security, particularly in the case of saudi arabia, have access to crucially important energy resources , we have no energy resources, we have no choice but to allow this person to come here doesn't mean that we have to welcome that individual or pretend that everything is rosy and put out the red carpet. it simply means that we have to be pragmatic and live in the real world. >> do you agree, david? >> do you agree, david? >> yes and no. the trouble is we

are wildly inconsistent, aren't we? and of course it won't be simply that the prince will be in downing street. i imagine the prince will be in buckingham palace. do you remember prince charles waxing eloquent on those hideous old waxwork looks of the chinese leadership and refusing to shake their hands and indeed absented himself from public events because he thought they were so wicked. he will be, i'm afraid, all over the crown prince because there were very close relationships between the royal families and between not only the royal family of saudi arabia, but all the gulf states. none of which have got any better human rights records than saudi arabia. do you see what i mean? what the problem is? there's wild inconsistency. and we lurch from one position to another and we do it without really thinking and without strategic thought . what i think strategic thought. what i think is disgraceful, frankly. i mean, you was putting forward the kind of views that a hardened 19th

century foreign secretary would have done. there was a thing called the national interest. you know, we have no friends. we only have interests. when did we ever do that? we lurch around on human rights. we strike postures over energy . we do all of these over energy. we do all of these things and then suddenly we discover we actually need somebody. it's the chaos of our policy . it's our refusal to policy. it's our refusal to think straight. >> what you're describing is geopolitical illiteracy , which, geopolitical illiteracy, which, yeah, sometimes we think we're social workers to the rest of the world. but that's a problem because i think the british people need to understand that we live in a very difficult world and we need to look after our interests in a clearly single minded kind of way and therefore not play this silly game. >> you speak as a hungarian by extraction. >> well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. i'm being really serious. sorry. i'm being serious. >> i'm being frank. i'm sorry. i'm not mocking. i am being desperate. our desperate. too serious. our problem , of course, we have problem is, of course, we have been sold myth . we have been

been sold a myth. we have been sold. myth human rights sold. the myth that human rights are now a universal assumption that everybody signs up to the un . everybody believes in the un. everybody believes in the universal charter of human rights. i'm afraid we should have learned from the response in the ukraine. the west is not supported by anybody outside the west. our former dependencies like south africa and india , non like south africa and india, non dependencies like brazil all either observed sweet little neutrality or lean to russia. >> we need to face you on that, frank and i think the key thing is to understand that we need to look, take our nations seriously, take a national interest seriously. >> and that's got to be the standing, the starting point from which we make all these decisions about the rest of the world. >> so human rights , national >> so human rights, national interest should come first. absolutely yeah. >> do you agree with that? when we're having this conversation, i've got this image. i know it's i've got this image. i know it's i know it's separate, but it's linked. i've got this image of this big inflatable donald trump in nappy . i

this big inflatable donald trump in nappy. i remember this big inflatable donald trump in nappy . i remember when in a nappy. i remember when there was conversations about donald potentially having donald trump potentially having that state visit and people because were so opposed to because they were so opposed to some mayor of london, some of his the mayor of london, remember, was a mayor of remember, there was a mayor of london inflating the thing. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> i don't know if he inflated it, but i think obviously he certainly gave permission for it to flown over this country. to be flown over this country. so are very different so there are very different lines that people have in terms of acceptable and what is of what's acceptable and what is not. that is for sure. but where do you stand it, do you think do you stand on it, do you think that we be welcoming that we should be welcoming these crack on with that we should be welcoming thins crack on with that we should be welcoming thin terms crack on with that we should be welcoming thin terms of, crack on with that we should be welcoming thin terms of, i crack on with that we should be welcoming thin terms of, i don'tick on with that we should be welcoming thin terms of, i don't know, with it in terms of, i don't know, just the goodness of the country going forward international going forward in international relationships of relationships or in terms of lines. would your line lines. where would your line be? lots of people enjoying the conversation tonight , carol, conversation tonight, carol, saying what is all this conversation about the saudis? they've been here for years, buying football and all buying up football clubs and all the of it. why now do we the rest of it. why now do we only care? shall only just care? i shall leave you that . look, time you to ponder that. look, time flies when you're having a good, fun conversation good, fun conversation and a good, robust starkey. robust debate. david starkey. i've robust debate. david starkey. pve your robust debate. david starkey. i've your company, i've enjoyed your company, frank. yours two. more frank. for 80 yours two. more importantly , you guys home as importantly, you guys at home as well. you very much for

well. thank you very much for getting involved in the conversation. do not forget the don't campaign don't kill cash campaign continues. if haven't signed continues. if you haven't signed it, so. nigel farage it, please do so. nigel farage is up next. don't you go anywhere i'll you anywhere and i'll see you tomorrow . tomorrow. >> the temperatures rising . boxt >> the temperatures rising. boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hi there. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast, we'll nofice the gb news forecast, we'll notice the increased humidity dunng notice the increased humidity during the nights next few nights. windy and cloudy conditions starting to appear as well. and an increased risk of showers and thunderstorms as the weekend approaches. high pressure moving away, lower pressure moving away, lower pressure approaching isobars tightening. the wind picks up overnight. that window is bringing higher humidities across the uk , an increase in across the uk, an increase in the cloud as well. some showers affecting eastern parts of britain, but heavier downpours arriving the end of the night arriving by the end of the night across northern ireland, wales into central and southern england. it's a muggy england. and it's a muggy night for sleeping celsius in the

for sleeping 1718 celsius in the south, 13 to 15 celsius in the north. those winds of concern , north. those winds of concern, especially across parts of northwest wales as we go through friday, 50 mile per hour wind gust, perhaps more in some of the gusty spots could impact travel, tourism and so on and heavy showers, even some thunderstorms across parts of central and southern england dunng central and southern england during friday morning. frequent lightning , heavy rainfall lightning, heavy rainfall as well. they diminish into the afternoon. a warm and humid afternoon. it's a warm and humid day, but a lot of cloud and that breeze will limit temperatures then friday night. so that's then on friday night. so that's when action takes when a lot of action takes place. rain sweeping place. heavy rain sweeping through of some very lively through risk of some very lively thunderstorm of thunderstorm in the east of england. and the persistent rain on continues into the on saturday continues into the north of scotland. northern ireland and some, well, heavy rain at times throughout the weekend across northern parts of the further south, it's the uk. further south, it's sunny spells and showers and still quite warm . the still staying quite warm. the temperatures are rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on .

or or. or or. or . where or or. or or. or. where >> good evening. the don't kill cash campaign today took the petition on your behalf to number 11 downing street. and we are expecting a statement at 1030 this evening from the treasury and instruction to the fca and to the banks to tell the banks to keep taking and giving out cash. we may be getting somewhere. we'll discuss corps and what on earth is going on in the corporate culture in britain. and she was known as the green goddess on breakfast television back in the 80s. but there's much, much more to diana moran on that, and she joins me tonight on talking but tonight on talking pints. but before all of that, let's get the news with polly middlehurst