where weather . weather. >> good afternoon is 3:00 pm is patrick christys is gb news. and today lucy letby became the worst child serial killer in british history , found guilty of british history, found guilty of the murders of seven babies and the murders of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others. but it opens up a whole host of questions and we'll go through them one by one throughout the course of this show. this how show. how did this happen? how was for on so was it allowed to go for on so long the warnings? >> another big question, of course , is this one really is course, is this one really is that the face of evil? >> does evil exist? it's hard to imagine any worse crimes. >> and then it poses this question as well. is it time to bnng question as well. is it time to bring back the death penalty for crimes heinous this? crimes as heinous as this? will any sentence ever be enough for justice? >> and this is a concerning one. could there be more victims? an ongoing investigation into another hospital where lucy letby worked before she was unleashed to prowl the wards at

the countess of chester hosphal >> i'll be answering all of those questions throughout the course of this show. patrick this is . gb news absolutely this is. gb news absolutely devastating series of events there will be keeping you up to date as all of those questions attempt to be answered here on this show. your views gb views are gbnews.com, but right now it's your headlines with tatiana . patrick. >> thank you very much and good afternoon. this is the latest from the newsroom. that breaking news former nurse lucy letby has been found guilty of the murder of seven babies. she's the uk's most prolific killer of babies in modern times. most prolific killer of babies in modern times . letby has also in modern times. letby has also been found guilty of the attempted murder of six others between june 2015 and june 2016 at the countess of chester hosphaps at the countess of chester hospital's neonatal ward. the 33 year old will be sentenced on monday. an independent inquiry

will be held into the case of lucy letby and will examine the circumstances surrounding the deaths and incidents the department of health has said the parents of baby l and twin brother baby m, who let b attempted to kill shortly after their birth, spoke anonymously ahead of the verdicts . ahead of the verdicts. >> when i went down, i saw doctors around the trolley and there just pumping his heart like like a rag doll, really. he was just like a doll. and they were just going like that , like were just going like that, like that to chest . that to the chest. >> she was very cool, calm , >> she was very cool, calm, calculated and criminal minded lady. but we didn't notice anything at the time. >> it's hard to put into words just how it could on just how it could have gone on so long, why it went on so long. these are the answers we need just an evil person. there's no way she should have been able to get away with it for so long. >> well, the crown prosecutor , >> well, the crown prosecutor, pascal jones, says that her attacks were a complete betrayal of the trust placed in her. little did those working alongside her know that there

was a murderer in their midst. >> she did her utmost to conceal her crimes by varying the ways in which you repeatedly harmed babies in her care , she sought babies in her care, she sought to deceive her colleagues and pass off the harm she caused. as nothing more than a worsening of each baby's existing vulnerable ability . ability. >> elsewhere, police in northern ireland have arrested a man in connection with the psni data breach . a 50 year old man has breach. a 50 year old man has been detained in county londonderry under the terrorism act and is being questioned . act and is being questioned. another man was arrested yesterday on suspicion of collecting information likely to be useful to terrorists. last week, the details of 10,000 police officers and staff were published online by mistake, followed by second breach relating to stolen documents and a laptop . well, that comes as a laptop. well, that comes as a pianist and officers , a laptop pianist and officers, a laptop and notebook were lost from a moving vehicle. the service says

the laptop was deactivated and has been recovered, but sections of the notebook remain missing. the contents of that book are unclear . gb the contents of that book are unclear. gb news can reveal more than 25,000 migrants have crossed the english channel since rishi sunak became prime minister the figure was reached just after midday today after the border force vessel ranger arrived at dover harbour with 57 people on board that means 1 in 4 crossings since 2018 have happened, whilst mr sunak has beenin happened, whilst mr sunak has been in number 10. stopping the boats is one of the government's five priorities. train drivers will strike on the 1st of september and overtime will be banned the day after in a long running over pay. the running dispute over pay. the strike will force train companies across england to cancel all services , while the cancel all services, while the ban on overtime will seriously disrupt the network, it will be the 12th one day strike by aslef members. since the dispute started over a year ago, the metropolitan police says nearly

300 crimes relating to london's ultra low emission zone have been recorded. a group opposed to the ulez expansion has been targeting the enforcement cameras, cutting the wires or removing them completely . close removing them completely. close to 3000 cameras are being installed across the capital ahead of the scheme's rollout at the end of the month . cornwall the end of the month. cornwall council and devon and cornwall police will allow pubs and clubs across the country to open at 10 am. for the world cup final this sunday. the decision comes after michael gove wrote to councils across britain requesting earlier opening times for fans to watch the match. foreign secretary james cleverly and culture, media and sport secretary lucy frazer will be representing the country at the match against spain . this is gb match against spain. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by simply saying play gb news. now it's back to . patrick

back to. patrick >> good afternoon. take a look at this face. that's the face of lucy letby, the worst child serial killer in modern british history. she has just been found guilty of seven murders and six attempted murders as she attempted murders as she attempted to murder some victims several times and even found different ways to inflict indiscreet or inhuman levels of pain . with some of her victims pain. with some of her victims breaking into screams that experienced paediatricians had never heard before . so she kept never heard before. so she kept little trophies, reports , little trophies, reports, medical notes that she could remember the names of her victims. she seemed excited. the court heard when babies were dead or dying, offering to court heard when babies were dead or dying , offering to bathe dead or dying, offering to bathe and take photographs of them . and take photographs of them. but her trail of destruction doesn't just extend to those she kills. some of her other victims will permanent , kills. some of her other victims will permanent, round the will need permanent, round the clock families of the clock care. the families of the victims have their lives victims have had their lives devastated. she even targeted triplets, twins for goodness sake. this story might even

still get worse . another still get worse. another hospital trust in liverpool is investigating . let this time investigating. let this time that years ago i mean, the mind boggles . let's have another look boggles. let's have another look at that mugshot , shall we? and i at that mugshot, shall we? and i just want to ask , does evil just want to ask, does evil exist ? are we looking there at exist? are we looking there at evil? it was claimed that she exhibited munchausen syndrome , exhibited munchausen syndrome, that she had a hero complex, that she had a hero complex, that she's a narcissist . that she had a hero complex, that she's a narcissist. but then you hear she actually then you hear that she actually wanted to kill babies so that she could grieve with married she could grieve with a married doctor that she likes. i also want a series of other want to ask a series of other questions . how was this questions as well. how was this allowed happen and happen for allowed to happen and happen for so long? doctors were warning about her for ages. one raised concerns and was sent an email that said it's unlikely that anything is going on. we'll see what happens. we'll see what happens. well, babies die . happens. well, babies die. that's what happens, isn't it ? that's what happens, isn't it? the countess of chester hospital has to account for this. how did they allow the worst child serial killer in modern british history to prowl their wards?

managers repeat idly, refused to believe that letby was to blame and even tried to have a reinstate kid on the ward. apparently, much months after doctors insisted that she'd be removed from frontline duties . removed from frontline duties. how do we know this isn't still happening now? just with somebody ? another question somebody else? another question is about standard of baby is about the standard of baby care in general. this is by no means the first baby death scandal . one doctor messaged scandal. one doctor messaged letby and said that she was one of the few nurses that he trusts with mean , with his own children. i mean, good grief. what that good grief. what does that tell you ? and then there's you? and then there's the question isn't question of the sentence. isn't there? surely this is a full life term, but his life even enough she didn't have the courage to come and face the final verdict . this is the worst final verdict. this is the worst crime imaginable. would the death penalty be the only fitting punishment . email me, fitting punishment. email me, gb views. gb news. com loads of different elements of this to unpack how why did this unpack how and why did this happen for so long? what is the

general state maternity care general state of maternity care by the way? britain? is by by the way? in britain? it is by no means the only baby death scandal, this is scandal, although this is of course conducted course the worst one conducted by killer. we're also by a serial killer. we're also going to be at whether going to be looking at whether or not this is evil. going to be looking at whether or not this is evil . some people or not this is evil. some people say it's mental health. we'll have a look at what the sentence could arguably should be could be and arguably should be on top of all of that. but after a trial lasting more than ten months, the jury in the lucy letby case have now delivered their verdict. they found the former nurse guilty of murdering and attempting murder babies and attempting to murder babies while she was working the while she was working at the neonatal unit of the countess of chester on northwest of chester hospital on northwest of england. reporter sophie reaper has report . has this report. >> how loosely is this the most horrific crime possible ? horrific crime possible? >> the murder of a baby back in 2018? lucy letby was arrested on suspicion of just that . suspicion of just that. >> did you have any concerns that there was a rise in the mortality rate ? mortality rate? >> yes. okay. so tell me about

that. >> what concerns did you have that we don't just notice as a team in general, the nurses thought that this was a rise compared to previous years. >> new parents here at the countess of chester hospital put their trust in the staff on its neonatal unit. that was only to find out later that one of the nurses was a killer. as the number of incidents on the unit began to rise , so did the began to rise, so did the suspicions of lucy letby, his colleagues . this ultimately colleagues. this ultimately prompted an investigation by cheshire constabulary to try and provide some answers for the heartbroken families involved . heartbroken families involved. >> and i think it's hard to imagine what the families are going through . i think she used going through. i think she used a cover of trust that she'd gained the trust of parents, the trust of her colleagues and her friends to commit these crimes in such an unimaginable way.

>> in october of last year, lucy letby trial began as the former nurse faced charges of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder a further ten. a jury at manchester crown court sat week after week, month after month, heanng after week, month after month, hearing details about each of the babies involved from child a all the way through to child. q lucy letby watched on from the dock as the court was shown images from her home and hospital rotas which identify her as the only person working at the time of every single incident . the evidence also incident. the evidence also included a series of handwritten notes found amongst the former nurse's belongings on one of which she'd written things like i killed them on purpose because i'm not good enough and i am evil . i i'm not good enough and i am evil. i did this.

i'm not good enough and i am evil. i did this . then, almost evil. i did this. then, almost eight months after the trial began , the defendant took to the began, the defendant took to the stand for the very first time. she maintained , and her she maintained, and her innocence throughout , telling innocence throughout, telling the court she'd been devastated by the accusations . she said, i by the accusations. she said, i only ever did my best to care for them . but ultimately, her for them. but ultimately, her defence wasn't enough for the jury , defence wasn't enough for the jury , and the nurse once trusted jury, and the nurse once trusted to care for defenceless babies, was found guilty of murder. sophie reaper. gb news. >> i can cross live now to sophie reaper sophie. thank you very, very much. and it's important, i think, to say that lucy letby did not actually come up to hear the final set of verdicts today, did she? has she ever expressed any kind of remorse . remorse. >> she hasn't. patrick throughout this whole trial , she

throughout this whole trial, she has maintained her innocence , has maintained her innocence, steadfastly saying she was not guilty on all of the 22 counts on this indictment. when we heard the first verdict on the 8th of august, those two counts of attempted murder that she was found guilty of, we heard tears , we heard sobbing, but no remorse . then on the on the next remorse. then on the on the next set of verdicts, we had a stony face. no response whatsoever. and from then on, we haven't seen her at all. she hasn't been present in the dock. when asked about this by the judge, benjamin myers , the defence said benjamin myers, the defence said that it was her decision that she was refusing to appear in the dock and we imagine that will now be the case for the sentencing, which is happening on monday morning of next week. we won't see lucy letby. she won't be there facing the judge as he delivers his sentencing . as he delivers his sentencing. she won't be there facing the families of whom she murdered some of their children . she

some of their children. she won't be there at all facing the crimes that she is committed. and this is one of, if not the longest murder trial in british history . history. >> and there are some questions about the jury in this because it's gone on for so long. obviously, there were some not guilty verdicts as well. i was just hoping that you might be able to to me what what able to explain to me what what the story of the jury is really going throughout all of this . going throughout all of this. >> absolutely. so of course, the traditional jury at the crown court is comprised of 12 people. that was the same for this case. however, a few weeks ago, we lost one of the jurors that was as according to justice goss, he said they had a good person , said they had a good person, personal reason that meant that we went down to 11 jurors, seven women and four men. it was then that task to continue deliberations and to come to initially to come to unanimous verdicts , if that was possible.

verdicts, if that was possible. ultimately we heard there were 22 charges on this indictment . 22 charges on this indictment. just to break it down a little bit. so 22 charges we have now have 16 verdicts, two of which were not guilty, 14 of which were not guilty, 14 of which were guilty . though of those 14 were guilty. though of those 14 guilty verdicts, we have seven murders and seven attempted murders. of course, one of the murders, one of the attempted murders, one of the attempted murders was two counts regarding the same child . but in terms of the same child. but in terms of unanimous versus majority , they unanimous versus majority, they were able to come back with three unanimous verdicts so that was relating to counts six child f in terms of count 15, child l and count 23, which was child 0, those three verdicts were union animus, which means all 11 of the jurors agreed that she was guilty on those counts when they said, when we got to a certain point, the judge then delivered what we call a majority directed . and what that means is that

ten jurors can agree while one can disagree. and what that means is it's supposed to make it easier for them to come to a joint decision. and that's how we were able to come to the rest of those majority verdicts that we now know . we now know. >> so thank you very, very much. is sophie reaper. there are north—west of england. reporter who we will be hearing rather a lot from throughout the course of this show. thank you. of this show. sophie, thank you. now to now i'm going to go to consultant psychologist consultant forensic psychologist , dr. kerry and think , dr. kerry nixon. and i think when we get cases like this, the psychology of it is a vital importance. dr. kerry, thank you very , very much. i am asking the very, very much. i am asking the question , does evil exist ? when question, does evil exist? when you see the picture of lucy letby, it is that evil. and the reason i'm asking is because reason why i'm asking is because of the mental health of of the mental health side of this several cases, this. in several of the cases, it suggested that letby it was suggested that letby attacked babies because attacked the babies because she wanted paediatrician wanted a married paediatrician to attention . there's to pay her attention. there's talk of narcissism , there's talk talk of narcissism, there's talk of munchausen. what's going on here? is she evil . here? is she evil. >> i always say when discussing

evil that i don't like to think of that evil exists in people , of that evil exists in people, but we have evil acts. >> and i have seen many, many people in my time that have committed evil acts. and this is one of those cases. there are so many unanswered questions in this case. and hopefully over the next few weeks, months and years , we can answer those years, we can answer those questions . there'll be lots of questions. there'll be lots of psychologists examining her to see if we can answer those questions. is it personality disorder? does she have munchausen by proxy ? are there munchausen by proxy? are there any mental health issues? i think one thing we can say now is that her crimes are absolutely abhorrent . and i'm absolutely abhorrent. and i'm sat here in shock as everybody is. it's just the most disturbing case and something that i saw the dci comment in this case was that everybody involved , even the professionals involved, even the professionals and the jury , will come out of

and the jury, will come out of this different people to what they went into it. and i think that was such a distressing comment to consider here, because it's going to be so traumatic for so many people. and of course, that this which i can't even begin to imagine now. >> absolutely . could you explain >> absolutely. could you explain to me in our viewers, please, what munchausen by proxy is ? what munchausen by proxy is? >> it's a condition where people will sometimes it's their children, sometimes it's, you know , somebody in your care, know, somebody in your care, like in this case, will make the child ill and will take the child ill and will take the child to hospital to try and get care. and they're seeking attention, attention or sometimes control a sense of power , a neediness. so some of power, a neediness. so some of the things that's been discussed is, you know , attention from the is, you know, attention from the doctor she had in seeming doctor that she had in seeming to be excited when it was all happening. and those are the factors that we see in

munchausen. it's when the attention is on the individual. so often parents will make a child ill , so they get the child ill, so they get the attention from that illness. >> okay. and can you explain narcissism to me, please, as well as narcissism is a person , well as narcissism is a person, a narcissistic personality disorder is a personality disorder is a personality disorder where somebody is very egocentric . egocentric. >> it's all about them. they like drama. they like to be the centre of attention. they've often though , underneath often though, underneath narcissism got a very low self esteem. so they big themselves up. they're always right. they want to be the best and they want to be the best and they want to be the best and they want to have the attention. so narcissistic acts is when somebody tries to get attention on them and they are the centre of it and that they see no wrong in their actions. it's everybody else's fault. it's never their fault. >> and just one final one with you, carrie . even if people do you, carrie. even if people do have things like munchausen by proxy or they are a narcissist, are they still able to recognise

that what they are doing has consequences and that what they are doing causes pain to others and that it's wrong ? and that it's wrong? >> absolutely . personality >> absolutely. personality disorder and munchausen by proxy does not mean that you do not know what you are doing. you know what you are doing. you know the actions that you are doing and you know the consequences . consequences. >> look, it's fascinating. dr. carey , thank you very, very carey, thank you very, very much. dr. carey nixon, who is a consultant , forensic consultant, forensic psychologist and i think this is the debate that is going to be raging for a very long period of time when it comes to lucy letby, cases like letby, when we get cases like this, hopefully this, although hopefully we don't this, although hopefully we dont as as don't get any more as bad as this, question of evil this, but that question of evil or a mental abnormality and what that means for their actions and whether or not they can fully be held accountable to their actions . but there we go. after actions. but there we go. after the break, we will continue our coverage afternoon of the coverage this afternoon of the lucy verdict . i will be lucy letby verdict. i will be asking certain points as well about whether or not a life about whether or not a full life term is long enough when cases

like this reared our head, the death debate comes death penalty debate comes calling, doesn't it? patrick christys gb news, britain's news

thursdays from six till 930 . thursdays from six till 930. >> welcome back very shortly. >> welcome back very shortly. >> and we'll be joined by the former home secretary priti patel get her reaction to the patel to get her reaction to the lucy breaking news this lucy letby breaking news this afternoon. just very quickly in the inbox, gbviews@gbnews.com. a lot of you commenting on what is an absolutely harrowing,

shocking , devastating case. of shocking, devastating case. of course mark essien says course it is. mark essien says how does she get the choice as to whether or she goes and to whether or not she goes and sits in the dock for sentencing? to whether or not she goes and sits maxine,)ck for sentencing? to whether or not she goes and sits maxine, you or sentencing? to whether or not she goes and sits maxine, you are entencing? to whether or not she goes and sits maxine, you are not ncing? to whether or not she goes and sits maxine, you are not theig? to whether or not she goes and sits maxine, you are not the only to whether or not she goes and sits miasking ou are not the only to whether or not she goes and sits miasking thisre not the only to whether or not she goes and sits miasking thisre not the.only to whether or not she goes and sits miasking thisre not the. it ly person asking this question. it is absolutely astonishing me is absolutely astonishing for me that these people are not dragged to the dock, especially if already found if they've already been found guilty as the letby guilty, as indeed the lucy letby case. was at two separate case. she was at two separate sentencings sorry verdicts, i should say . i sentencings sorry verdicts, i should say. i find sentencings sorry verdicts, i should say . i find that should say. i find that absolutely staggering. yet bring about the death penalty, says mary, an evil does exist, says sheila gb views gbnews.com. but i'm joined now by criminal professor james treadwell , who's professor james treadwell, who's going to be popping up on your screens in just a matter of moments. he is, james, moments. there he is, james, luke, you very, very luke, thank you very, very much. obviously very bleak circumstances talking to circumstances to be talking to you. and analyse this you. and how do you analyse this case? the worst child serial killer in british history, modern british history . modern british history. >> it's an absolutely terrible case. it's a horrible case. and it's been a very, very long case. but i think one of the

ways that we have to analyse it and have to think about it is something that's already starting happen, that starting to happen, is that there will be of there will be points of comparison are made with comparison that are made with with killers. and so far with other killers. and so far i've seen two particular points of comparison made. one is myra hindley and the other is rose west. now the thing that i find really interesting and also quite historically forgetful about that is that the mention of a female nurse serial killer in the case of beverley alec and convicted . in 1993 seems to have convicted. in 1993 seems to have supped convicted. in 1993 seems to have slipped people's memory and that in and of itself i think is telling because the other thing that's important about this is what i think we should do is what i think we should do is what we should look for a motive and try and understand what drives someone to do such things . i'm very much in favour of that form of analysis. i think the reason and the rationale for doing that, at least in part, is to think about, well, how can we best these things from best prevent these things from ever happening again in the

future? how can make sure future? how can we make sure that never a situation future? how can we make sure th.which never a situation future? how can we make sure th.which seven ver a situation future? how can we make sure th.which seven parents:uation future? how can we make sure th.which seven parents haven future? how can we make sure th.which seven parents have to in which seven parents have to go through similar circumstances to those today? you know, and i think in looking at that , that think in looking at that, that health care setting , there is health care setting, there is something important there in that we tend to forget it. but the most prolific serial killer in english history, harold shipman , was in a health care shipman, was in a health care setting. beverley allitt, who i've mentioned. there are others who have been convicted, people like colin norris and ben gay and if we begin to understand that , we can and if we begin to understand that, we can begin to think about how and one of the things about how and one of the things about this case that we absolutely must not forget, i think, is the unsung heroics of those doctors who recognise something very wrong was going on and wouldn't back down. and they're one of the best. the reasons that today i think , you reasons that today i think, you know, we have a guilty verdict. then we had children protected . then we had children protected. then we had children protected. the thing is, is there an

opportunity to do that earlier in this exchange? >> james? it's shocking . james, >> james? it's shocking. james, let me cut in here because it's absolutely shocking. you make a series points. series of really good points. yes, absolutely. credit to yes, absolutely. all credit to the doctors raised alarm the doctors who raised the alarm . but i'm going to you some . but i'm going to read you some things which absolutely things now, which is absolutely devastating it comes to the devastating when it comes to the response hospitals response to this. the hospitals top manager demanded that certain doctors wrote an apology to lucy letby, them stop to lucy letby, told them to stop making allegations against two consultants were ordered to attend mediation with lucy letby. though they letby. even though they suspected she was killing babies . when she was finally moved off the ward, she was assigned to the ward, she was assigned to the risk and patient safety office, where she had access to sensitive documents from the neonatal unit. deaths were not reported appropriately as well. i'm just reading of this i'm just reading all of this now. deaths not reported now. deaths were not reported appropriately , which meant appropriately, which meant that the could not the high fatality rate could not be sooner as well as be picked up sooner as well as the seven murder convictions she was duty for another six baby was on duty for another six baby deaths hospital and the deaths at the hospital and the police widened their police have widened their investigation. if you are a serial killer , the nhs could be

serial killer, the nhs could be considered in some cases to be a playground for you . playground for you. >> i think what you've got , what >> i think what you've got, what we've got to understand is that while on one hand we can look at motive that some of the most important things in understanding offending behaviour about access and behaviour are about access and opportunity . and in people will opportunity. and in people will particularly nasty people. and that doesn't just involve those who will harm and kill children . it involves similarly things like sexual offenders. they will look for opportunities and they look for opportunities and they look for opportunities and they look for those opportunities to access those that they want, and thatis access those that they want, and that is absolutely why the response was was shockingly bad and you've pointed it out very , and you've pointed it out very, very well. you know, from from some of those in that setting, those should be more than alert to the fact not least because, as i've said, you know , there as i've said, you know, there are there are numerous instances previously of health care , previously of health care, serial killers, operating

history . beverly alex, history. beverly alex, conviction was in 1993. it's not that far, far back in history that far, far back in history that we should have forgotten it. and you know, there should be an alertness to that. and yet in trustingly, that often seems to get simply forgotten and moved aside. >> now it does as well. and by the way, you add that to the i was going to say non criminal, i should rephrase it as non murderous babies scandals that we've had at places like telford , deaths, back and , 200 deaths, they're back and furness, for goodness sake. i mean , it really is the state of mean, it really is the state of maternity care. before you introduce a serial killer into it in this country is absolutely shocking. james, thank you very , very much. we are going to have . that's have to leave it there. that's criminology professor james treadwell i he makes treadwell. i think he makes a fascinating series of points there, doesn't which fascinating series of points th about doesn't which fascinating series of points th about if doesn't which fascinating series of points th about if you yesn't which fascinating series of points th about if you are 't which fascinating series of points th about if you are that which fascinating series of points th about if you are that way|ich is about if you are that way inclined for whatever reason, you are going to seek out a profession that allows you to fulfil your sick and twisted fantasies. and he makes a series of great issues there about beverley and at the so—called

angel of death. given the 13 life sentences for four counts of murder, five counts of attempted six counts of attempted murder, six counts of gbh, . in gbh, she was apprehended. in 1991. okay. what has happened since then? have we taken our eye off the ball since then? i'm going to be doing a lot of talking throughout the course of this on amount this show. on the amount of warnings that were given. doctors coming out and saying, we think she's killing babies. and the response to that was utterly , utterly shocking. and utterly, utterly shocking. and it does lead us to us, doesn't it? how many more victims could there be still to come between now and 4:00 in just a moment, i will be joined by former home secretary patel. but secretary priti patel. but first, she headlines with tatiana . patrick tatiana. patrick >> thank you and good afternoon. this is the latest from the gb newsroom. nurse lucy newsroom. former nurse lucy letby has been found guilty of the murder of seven babies. letby has also been found guilty of the attempted murder of six others between june 2015 and

june 2016 at the countess of chester hospital's neonatal ward. the department of health says an independent inquiry will be held . a teenager has been be held. a teenager has been convicted of 22 counts of rape . convicted of 22 counts of rape. 19 year old cavani queen met most of his six victims on social media. he would manipulate the victims to meet him in person before attacking them. the offences took place over a three year period from 2019, when he was 15 years old and police in northern ireland have arrested a man under the terrorism act in connection with the psni data breach last week, the psni data breach last week, the details of 10,000 police officers and staff were published online by mistake . you published online by mistake. you can get more on all of those stories by visiting our website . gb news.com . direct bullion . gb news.com. direct bullion

sponsors, the finance report on gb news for gold and silver investment . gb news for gold and silver investment. here's a quick snapshot of today's markets . the snapshot of today's markets. the pound will buy you $1.2736 and ,1.1717. the price of gold is £1,486.19 per ounce. and the ftse 100 is at 7220 points. direct bullion sponsors the financial report on gb news for gold and silver investors . gold and silver investors. >> looks like things are heating up . boxed boilers proud sponsors up. boxed boilers proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. hello again. >> it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast. storm betty arrives through the rest of friday and the start of the weekend, bringing for some heavy bringing gales for some heavy rain and a few rain for many and a few thunderstorms thrown in as well. now betty was named by met eireann, the met service eireann, the irish met service because that's the because that's where the strongest are

strongest of the winds are expected during evening . expected during friday evening. nevertheless, it's a wet and windy for much of the uk windy spell for much of the uk as irish sea coast seeing as well. irish sea coast seeing gales the risk of 70 mile gales and the risk of 70 mile per hour wind gusts the far per hour wind gusts for the far southwest of england, especially around exposed beaches, heavy rain sweeping through thunderstorms potentially for eastern england could cause some impacts. and that wet weather with us as we start off saturday, only is it noisy saturday, not only is it noisy night, night and night, it's a warm night and comfortable for sleeping 17 or 18 celsius as we approach dawn on saturday and saturday begins with that storm bringing strong winds to western and northern coasts as well as further heavy rain for scotland and northern ireland. risk localised ireland. risk of localised flooding. it does brighten up through the afternoon for england spells england and wales. sunny spells a yes, actually a few showers, yes, but actually plenty of fine weather and feeling warm. we've got this southwesterly and 26 southwesterly airflow and 26 celsius is possible in east anglia, but not feeling so pleasant and pleasant for scotland and northern ireland. we see northern ireland. we will see further at times. further wet weather at times. much out of the way much of that's out of the way for sunday. all in all, a brighter day with less of a brisk wind. it's also going to

be increasingly warm in the south during the start of next week . temperatures reaching the week. temperatures reaching the high 20s in places, staying changeable further north . by changeable further north. by looks like things are heating up i >> -- >> boxed boilers proud sponsors of weather on gb news as. welcome back getting back to our top story. >> it is the fact that lucy letby has now been found guilty of the worst child serial of being the worst child serial killer in modern british history. seven murders, six attempted murders as well. of the 22 counts that she faced . the 22 counts that she faced. and it opens up, of course, that discussion about the death penalty doesn't say we await her sentencing. one would imagine that it's to to be a that it's going to have to be a full life mean, it's full life term. i mean, it's hard to imagine that there'll be anything won't anything other than that, won't it? saying in it? but lots of people saying in cases is the death cases like this is the death penalty. the only answer, would it give them relief? at the moment , she it give them relief? at the

moment, she will it give them relief? at the moment , she will live moment, she will have to live with of her with this for the rest of her life, what the life, won't she? what do the actual of the victims actual families of the victims want it's important want as well? it's important always to make sure take always to make sure we take those consideration those people into consideration . don't anything . maybe they don't want anything more done to her other than a full whole life tariff as well. i believe i am now able to go to former home secretary priti patel at present. thank you very, very much . firstly, very, very much. firstly, apologies that we've been slightly overtaken by the news events today, but obviously this is an absolutely devastating situation in terms of the lucy letby verdict. do you think that we should be in any way, shape or form even discussing things like bringing about the death penalty when we get cases like this ? well look, i think, first this? well look, i think, first of all, there's a lot of context. >> obviously , that'll be one >> obviously, that'll be one sentence in is declared around the case itself. that will need to be aired. you've also , to be aired. you've also, patrick, just touched on what the families wishes are as well. this is a deeply, deeply horrible , appalling, abhorrent

horrible, appalling, abhorrent and traumatic case for those families that have lost their babies . babies. >> it is a horrible case. the one thing i would add, though, is that the government has in recent years changed our laws for india , rules that are for india, rules that are effectively , you know, deemed to effectively, you know, deemed to have been involved in murdering children and harming children. >> and it's important that we see those laws put into practise by courts when it comes to by the courts when it comes to sentencing. we can't prejudge sentencing. so we can't prejudge anything right now . my anything right now. my sympathies are much with with sympathies are so much with with those families. i mean , there those families. i mean, there are no words really for what they have endured, the trauma and the heartbreak and i really think we now need to let this follow the full judicial process as we do. >> i think it opens up as well, though, some serious questions about what's going on in our nhs. the fact that concerns can be raised about someone like this, problems can be identified and that nothing is done about it. and this is led to run and run and run. and i think the internal procedures of complaints within the nhs,

that's got to be looked . at that's got to be looked. at >> well, look, patrick, i completely agree with you and you know , i'm a member of you know, i'm a member of parliament mid essex and you parliament in mid essex and you know, all mps represent their constituents when it comes to the nhs. >> but sadly , and i say this >> but sadly, and i say this with a very heavy heart and a lot of the complaints that come to us are literally that complaints about either access or services, their own personal experience is and it's heartbreaking. >> it is absolutely heartbreaking because they want to know the truth. what happened ? why did things go wrong so there has to be now and i have no doubt my colleague, the secretary of state for health, will be following this with a great deal of interest. >> there'll be all sorts of questions nhs trust. >> nhs trust itself , the >> nhs trust itself, the governance, what procedures did they follow and effective , you they follow and effective, you know, what lessons will be learnt. lessons will have to be learnt. lessons will have to be learnt out of this. and personally i think there has to be there must greater calls be there must be greater calls for transparency within in large organisations and institutions

such as the nhs. we have a similar, not quite similar case, but we have a statutory public health inquiry that has been announced into our own mental health trusts, where sadly families have lost loved ones . families have lost loved ones. and we hope now that that will bnng and we hope now that that will bring some justice for them . but bring some justice for them. but why? the question has to be why are we going through these lengthy ices to get lengthy process ices to get answers to their questions? sometimes years and years or even a decade after they've lost their loved ones? that is simply not acceptable . not acceptable. >> what's known about that ? >> what's known about that? because we've got the victims families here and some of them, by the way, are dealing with 24 hour care for some of lucy's victims who did survive . they victims who did survive. they can't be asked to sit through years of an inquiry and also the general public need to know, you need to know if you're going to go hospital or anyone go into the hospital or anyone else. have a baby or be else. and have a baby or be looked , that there aren't looked after, that there aren't people like her rampaging through the corridors , but through the corridors, but pretty. if it's all right with you, just ask a couple of

you, i will just ask a couple of points were points now about what we were originally supposed to have you on, raf on, which is about raf wethersfield and the ongoing situation that we've got there with the migrant crisis and the asylum centre that is there. it's been a very, very, very controversial centre. this okay, we've had people coming in, some people being removed and as far as i can tell, it looks as though if you are claiming to be the victim of human trafficking or or modern or people smuggling or modern slavery, can't even slavery, then we can't even house you in bases this. house you in bases like this. what's going on? >> so i think that's a you know, you've just asked the question because we're trying to get answers ourselves, you know, as the member of parliament, one of the member of parliament, one of the members of parliament for the members of parliament for the district , that is, you know, the district, that is, you know, cases wethersfield and his cases for wethersfield and his house wethersfield. cases for wethersfield and his house thisthersfield. cases for wethersfield and his house this site;field. cases for wethersfield and his house this site ,ield. cases for wethersfield and his house this site , we. cases for wethersfield and his house this site , we are not >> and this site, we are not getting straightforward answers from home office . and of from the home office. and of course, this simply course, this is simply not acceptable . actually, i acceptable. actually, i personally think wrong personally think it's just wrong , quite government , quite frankly. government departments and ministers must be account for the be held to account for the decisions that they make . but decisions that they make. but actually, what is going wrong ? actually, what is going wrong? and i think, patrick, there are

so questions where we still so many questions where we still need answers because, you know, it is a fact. my local authority, braintree district council and we spoke about this previously , they taking previously, they are taking the home office to court on this particular because of the particular site because of the type of planning conditions and the which gone the way in which they've gone about this site. they about developing this site. they claim emergency use of claim it's an emergency use of this site and then earlier on this site and then earlier on this week, thanks to a national newspaper report, we discovered that this site is going to be used for five when used for five years when actually we were in court and the home office had told us publicly that this was an emergency site . and emergency use of this site. and now that case has fallen apart. secondly we're not getting honest answers about some of the issues around health screening capacity, around screaming, screening . i think last time i screening. i think last time i was on your program , we heard was on your program, we heard that there'd been a health outbreak . there are issues outbreak. there are issues around what the local authority has been told or hasn't been told around environmental concerns and consideration of the site. i've also heard locally from my state holders.

so that's these are statutory bodies even from the fire service that they have not had full reports from the home office . so these are you know, office. so these are you know, the list is never ending. now, in terms of questions. but fundamentally , it's local people fundamentally, it's local people , local community and local councils that are having to bear the brunt of all of this. and if we're not getting transparent and honest reports and accounts from the home office and it just ties everyone's hands. from the home office and it just ties everyone's hands . and at ties everyone's hands. and at the same time, i have to say , it the same time, i have to say, it does not lend itself to give in a great deal of confidence that the national policy approach that has been taken nationally by the government and i think these both serious issues. these are both serious issues. all of this is serious. this these are both serious issues. all of this is serious . this is all of this is serious. this is not a straightforward, you know, stopping the is simple stopping the boats is not simple and . it is and straightforward. it is complicated, as you have reported many, many times , cases reported many, many times, cases end up in the courts. people claim modern day slavery. i'm more with those more than familiar with those types and cases . but types of claims and cases. but at same time, we have to get at the same time, we have to get the basics right and we saw last week well, there were

week as well, there were problems in alternative accommodation with the bibby stockholm. it's better to do the due diligence, the forensics and get right so that get the basics right so that actually even our local communities and our councils have some confidence and transparency as to is going on. >> just one more quick one with you, right. you, if that's all right. thank you, if that's all right. thank you today . what you for your time today. what would you do in the face of some red warning days that are about to happen right in the next couple of weeks? next few weeks? we're supposed to be getting this people this huge influx of people through last through about this time last yeah through about this time last year. that's when we saw overflowing at the manston centre, what would you do now ? centre, what would you do now? right now if you were home secretary , to make sure that we secretary, to make sure that we can deal with what is definitely going to be another, another massive surge in the coming days and weeks . and weeks. >> so look, i think this is literally going back to working with the french. the government has paid enormous sums of money, something like £480 million to the french. and that therefore

means that they are a partner. they can't simply and you know, in my previous time in office, we had conditioned a lot of the money, put performance metrics in, and we made sure that we were working with the french and in touch with the french. when we saw red coming, that is we saw red days coming, that is absolutely important because it shouldn't be one way. you know, my understanding is, is that colleagues in government are working with the french, but this is the moment now , i this is the moment right now, i think. patrick, your programme and gb news, i've seen plenty of footage actually from mark white where we're seeing a concentration of migrants move into war on the northern shores into war on the northern shores in hope that they're going to be taking these boats. and when the weather gets better , this is weather gets better, this is where the french need to do more . interceptions. my . on interceptions. my understanding is, i mean, some of this money was going to be used detention facilities. used for detention facilities. why arresting and why are they not arresting and detaining people rather than letting them congregate? these are types of practical are the types of practical discussions that should be taking place. they may be taking

place. i don't want to you know, be disrespectful people be disrespectful to people in the home office because know be disrespectful to people in the ihard office because know be disrespectful to people in the ihard this:e because know be disrespectful to people in the ihard this is. 3ecause know be disrespectful to people in the ihard this is. iacause know be disrespectful to people in the ihard this is. i know know how hard this is. i know officials in particular, both in the uk and on the french side, because there are uk officials , because there are uk officials, we have joint intelligence cells working together. quite frankly , they need to be really robust with our french colleagues. i think embassy colleagues in think our embassy colleagues in france paris as france need to be in paris as well, be very robust with their government counterparts in paris and say, you know , i'm sorry, and say, you know, i'm sorry, but this is the bare minimum that we you now to that we need. we need you now to be patrolling. we need you now to stop these from even to stop these boats from even manifesting themselves on the coastline . we need you to be coastline. we need you to be arresting and detaining arresting people and detaining them, because if they just moved them, because if they just moved them they'll they'll them on, they'll only they'll come back few time. come back in a few days time. and the type of activity and that's the type of activity that or at least that we need to stop or at least disperse the french put disperse until the french put the right resources in place to actually stop them from crossing in the first place. >> very , very much. >> thank you very, very much. always you on always appreciate having you on the is patel, the the show. is priti patel, the former giving her former home secretary giving her views what initially, of views on what initially, of course, that devastating lucy

letby verdict and then onto what's been going on in the channel and what we can expect to come in the channel well. to come in the channel as well. interesting there. so former home obviously not home secretary obviously not coming out in favour of bringing about penalty for about the death penalty for cases of cases like this. i know a lot of you getting of you aren't getting a lot of emails at the moment emails on this at the moment when to lucy letby, when it comes to lucy letby, who if have joined has if you have just joined us, has now been found guilty of seven murders and six attempted murders, and with become murders, and with it become britain's worst ever child serial killer, in a few moments time, we'll be talking to a former detective just on former police detective just on the police investigation into all of this. that's coming all of this. that's all coming your

& co weeknights from . six & co weeknights from. six former nurse lucy letby has been found guilty of the murder of seven babies. >> she is now the uk's most prolific killer of babies in modern times. she was also found guilty of the attempted murder of six others. now all of this is between june 2015 and june 2016 at the countess of chester hospitals neonatal ward. the 33 year old will be sent announced on monday . year old will be sent announced on monday. i'm joined now by mike neville is the former detective chief inspector. mike, i don't think in all of this there's been enough of a focus on the actual police investigation because whilst this is harrowing , devastating, this is harrowing, devastating, disgusting, all of that, have the police actually done quite a good job here? >> i think they have. i think they've done a fantastic job, very complex. i mean, bringing the different cases, i mean ,

the different cases, i mean, they're dealing with very young babies who are maybe premature, all sorts of medical conditions and a lot of these children, unfortunately , die of natural unfortunately, die of natural causes. so to try and gain the evidence, to show that that that child been made , murdered or child has been made, murdered or seriously harmed, would have been a really complex issue going through many notes. some of that i don't know if all these had these babies been buned these had these babies been buried cremated . so there's buried or cremated. so there's no bodies there. so i think the cheshire police should be congratulated to bring in lucy letby to justice. >> it's worth noting that they were actually investigating baby deaths in general under operation hummingbird , i believe operation hummingbird, i believe it was called. and then as a result of this spike in as they started to identify certain things and then letby emerged an incredibly difficult case. how difficult is it for police officers to not let their emotions get the better of them? that moment of arrest, you're knocking on the door woman knocking on the door of a woman who could be one who you think could be one of the vile human beings that the most vile human beings that this this world has

this country or this world has ever produced. how do you keep you cool? >> think you you just do >> i think you just you just do you professionally ? you've you act professionally? you've been trained that . you been trained to do that. you know, the officers or the detectives involved in those sort of complex operations. i've got a vast amount of experience of dealing with the most wicked and people and what you and cruel people and what you want see the end result you want to see the end result you want to see the end result you want to see the end result you want to is to not get upset want to have is to not get upset with some to why would you with some to get why would you get with them? want get violent with them? you want to that person to make sure that that person is brought . the key brought to station. the key thing is to get as much information out of them as possible. they possible. the more that they talk, that unites with talk, that more unites with them, the more they tell you that just gives you more leads, more lines of inquiry. but it's just a case of being professional . you want many of professional. you want many of these will have these officers will have children of their own and they'll just they would have wanted her convicted at court. >> yeah. no absolutely. and that interrogation is what's worth noting. lucy letby has never shown any remorse. the times that she appears to have got emotional is arguably more about herself than anything else, really. she didn't even bother

coming to the dock for the final verdict , coming to the dock for the final verdict, which i know has angered a lot of people . but in angered a lot of people. but in that interrogation process for the police, where you are really trying to get her to admit to things or trap a bit, i suppose, back her into a corner . how back her into a corner. how intricate is that? >> well, you've got to build up a rapport and there's certain officers who can speak to people can just got that, that method . can just got that, that method. and when you're the when can just got that, that method. and wiati you're the when can just got that, that method. and wiati y0|premises3 when can just got that, that method. and wiat1y0|premises you en can just got that, that method. and wiat1y0|premises you know you're at the premises you know searching, you say if searching, you might say if you're the person in charge, you might out that of might figure out that one of the officers has got a bit of a rapport with that person. but there's also specialist training. how you sit, remove barriers from the you know, you put a table in between you, you're creating barriers. so there's all sorts of other ways that get somebody to that you can get somebody to speak. but the information that they give is to just sit there and say, no comment . it's and say, no comment. it's really, really difficult. but you've got somebody who's speaking all that, all the extra evidence quickly, because evidence very quickly, because we've few seconds . we've only got a few seconds. >> to death >> i've got to ask. death penalty in situations like this or would do i would be or not, i would do i would be the personally . you

the hangman personally. you would be the hangman personally, yeah stuff. thank yeah. strong stuff. look, thank you mike. it's really you very much, mike. it's really fascinating the fascinating to have you on the show neville the show. is mike neville those the former chief former detective chief inspector? i wonder many inspector? i wonder how many police feel that way? actually you know, they are the ones who have people. have to deal with these people. they're the ones who look these people yeah, people in the eye. but yeah, she's become the most she's become the uk's most prolific serial killer prolific child serial killer in modern letby. modern times. it is lucy letby. i'll be returning that i'll be returning with that story in just a moment. we're going about the going to be asking about the sentencing. be sentencing. i'm going to be analysing . i'm analysing the psychology. i'm going the going to be looking at the police and asking police investigation and asking how was this monster how the heck was this monster allowed to rampage the corridors of hospitals? patrick christys gb news britain's news channel a brighter outlook with boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello again. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast . storm betty arrives through the of friday and the start . storm betty arrives through th

eireann, the irish met service because where the because that's where the strongest are strongest of the winds are expected during evening . expected during friday evening. nevertheless, it's a wet and windy spell for much of uk windy spell for much of the uk as irish coast seeing as well. irish coast seeing gales and the of 70 mile gales and the risk of 70 mile per hour wind gusts for the far southwest of england , especially southwest of england, especially around beaches, heavy around exposed beaches, heavy rain sweeping through thunderstorm s, rain sweeping through thunderstorms, potentially for eastern england could cause some impacts and that wet weather with us as we start off saturday. not only is it noisy night, a warm night and night, it's a warm night and comfortable for sleeping 70 or 18 celsius as we approach dawn on saturday and saturday begins with that storm bringing strong winds to western and northern coasts as well as further heavy rain for scotland and northern ireland. risk of localised flooding. it does brighten up through afternoon for through the afternoon for england spells england and wales. sunny spells a showers, actually a few showers, yes, but actually plenty of fine weather and feeling warm . we've got this feeling warm. we've got this southwesterly airflow and 26 celsius at next celsius is possible at next anglia but not feeling so pleasant scotland and pleasant for scotland and northern ireland. we will see further weather at times, further wet weather at times, much of that's out of the way for sunday. all in all, a

brighter with less of brighter day with less of a brisk wind . it's also going to brisk wind. it's also going to be increasingly warm in the south during the start of next week. temperatures reaching the high 20s in places, staying changeable further north by a brighter outlook with boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on .

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away. >> it's 4 pm. is patrick christys gb news news and lucy letby has been found guilty of seven murders and six attempted murders, which makes her the worst child serial killer in modern british history. however there are a lot of unanswered questions . how did this happen? questions. how did this happen? the devastating number of warnings that were issued to lucy letby the hospital lucy letby and the hospital either reinstated her on a ward or then put her in charge of safety in other areas as well? absolutely. mind blowing stuff. and we'll also be talking about this as well. does evil exist? is this the face of evil people are trying to pass this off and say, she's a narcissist or say, oh, she's a narcissist or she's syndrome she's got munchausen syndrome and that in some way excuse her. a lot of people are saying actually the only fitting punishment would be this bring back the death penalty for lucy letby and others like her. is that justice you've just heard from a police officer there, a former top cop who said that he would be the hangman himself .

would be the hangman himself. and one final question as well. are there more victims? and this is unfortunately is something that unfortunately is something that unfortunately is going heck is going to take a heck of a long answer the ongoing long time to answer the ongoing investigations another investigations into another hospital where lucy letby worked previously . patrick christys . gb previously. patrick christys. gb news. yeah look, get those emails coming in on on any of those questions. i will have time in this hour to read out some of your views. gb views gb news but right now it's your headunes news but right now it's your headlines . patrick. headlines with tatiana. patrick. >> thank you and good afternoon. this is the latest from the gb newsroom. former nurse lucy letby has been found guilty of the murder of seven babies. she's the uk's most prolific killer of babies in modern times. that bee has also been found guilty of the attempted murder of six others between . murder of six others between. june 2015 and june 2016 at the countess of chester hospital's neonatal ward, the 33 year old

will be sentenced on monday . the will be sentenced on monday. the department of health says an independent inquiry will be held into the case and will examine the circumstances surrounding the circumstances surrounding the death and incidents . the the death and incidents. the parents of baby l and twin brother baby m, who let b attempted to kill shortly after their birth, spoke anonymously ahead of the verdicts. when i went down, i saw doctors around the trolley and they're just pumping his heart like like a rag doll , really. rag doll, really. >> he was just like a doll. and they were just going like that , they were just going like that, like that to the chest . like that to the chest. >> she was very cool, calm , >> she was very cool, calm, calculated and criminal minded lady. but we didn't notice anything at the time. >> it's hard to put into words just how could gone just how it could have gone on so long, why it went on so long. these are the answers we need just an evil person. there's no way she should have been able to get away with it for so long. >> crown prosecutor pascal jones says that her attacks were a complete betrayal of the trust placed in her. >> little did those working

alongside her know that there was a murderer in their midst. >> she did her utmost to conceal her crimes by varying the ways in which you're repeatedly harmed babies in her care . harmed babies in her care. >> she sought to deceive her colleagues and pass off the harm she caused as nothing more than a worsening of each baby's existing vulnerability . existing vulnerability. >> a businessman has been found guilty of orchestrating a bomb plot against lawyers in a row over £1.4 million. jonathan nuttall was convicted of conspiring with his driver and an ex—marine to plant two devices in london's legal district . the four month trial district. the four month trial heard that nuttall had been pursued by the national crime agency over the seizure of assets. agency over the seizure of assets . an old bailey jury assets. an old bailey jury deliberated for 25 hours to convict the three men . police in convict the three men. police in northern ireland have arrested a man in connection with the psni

data breach. a 50 year old man has been detained in county londonderry under the terrorism act and is being questioned . act and is being questioned. another man was arrested yesterday on suspicion of collecting information likely to be useful to terrorists . last be useful to terrorists. last week, the details of 10,000 police officers and staff were published online by mistake, followed by a second breach relating to stolen documents and a laptop . well, it comes as a a laptop. well, it comes as a psni officer's laptop and notebook were lost from a moving vehicle. the service says the laptop was deactivated and has been recovered, but sections of the notebook remain missing. the contents of the book are unclear . a teenager has been convicted of 22 counts of rape against six victims. cavan queen would meet his victims on social media before manipulating them and going on to cause the attacks . going on to cause the attacks. the sexual assaults took place over a three year period from 2019 when he was 15 years old. queen has been remanded in custody and will be sentenced on

13th october. gb b news can reveal more than 25,000 migrants have crossed the channel since rishi sunak became prime minister. the figure was reached just after midday today after the border force vessel ranger arrived at dover harbour with 57 people on board. that means 1 in 4 crossings since 2018 have happened, whilst mr sunak has beenin happened, whilst mr sunak has been in number ten, stopping the boats is one of the government's five priorities. train drivers will strike on the 1st of september and overtime will be banned the day after in a long running dispute over pay. the strike force train strike will force train companies across england to cancel all services while the ban on overtime will seriously disrupt the network. it will be the 12th one day strike by aslef members since the dispute started a year ago . the started a year ago. the metropolitan police says nearly 300 crimes relating to london's ultra low emission zone have been recorded . a group opposed been recorded. a group opposed to the ulez expansion has been targeting the enforced cameras,

cutting wires or removing them completely . close to 3000 completely. close to 3000 cameras are being installed across the capital ahead of the scheme's rollout at the end of the month . and cornwall council the month. and cornwall council and devon and cornwall police will allow pubs and clubs across the country to open at 10 am. for the world cup final this sunday. the decision comes after michael gove wrote to councils across britain requesting earlier opening times for fans to watch that match. foreign secretary james cleverly and culture media and sport secretary lucy frazer will be representing the country at the match against spain . this is gb match against spain. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car , on digital radio and on car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's over to . patrick >> welcome back. now the government has ordered an independent inquiry into the lucy letby case after the nurse was found guilty of murdering

seven babies and attempting to murder six others. i don't know about you, but this is just rearranging the decking on the titanic, isn't it? why do we always to have an always have to have an incredibly lengthy enquiries into things that have happened years that bring, frankly, years ago that bring, frankly, very little justice to anyone? what happens the interim what happens in the interim penod what happens in the interim period ? it worth remembering what happens in the interim peri(these worth remembering what happens in the interim peri(these crimes h remembering what happens in the interim peri(these crimes committed ring what happens in the interim peri(these crimes committed by; that these crimes committed by lucy happened . in june lucy letby happened. in june 2015 to june 2016. we are now in 2023. how can people be sure that others like her haven't been walking the corridors of the nhs for years ? how can the nhs for years? how can people be sure that nothing like this is ever going to happen again? i mean, it wasn't so long ago, back in 1991, was it? it's not talking, you know, back in the or anything that the the 50s or anything that the other previous worst child serial killer actually took place. she was guilty, of course , 13 counts in total , although , 13 counts in total, although fewer murders as to lucy letby, she is now lucy letby, the most prolific killer of babies in modern times . she's also been

modern times. she's also been found guilty of the attempted murder of six others between june 2015 and june 2016 at the countess of chester hospital's neonatal ward. and when you realise lengths that the realise the lengths that the hospital went to make that hospital went to make sure that lucy okay and lucy letby felt okay and everything was all right with lucy letby actually it turns your stomach. doctors that raise the alarm years before she was actually arrested were made to apologise to her. they were made to attend mediation meetings with her. she was reinstated onto a ward and also as well, she was even moved when finally she was even moved when finally she was even moved when finally she was actually moved off the ward into a position overlooking safety on the wards. the 33 year old letby will be sentenced on monday and no sentence can ever be long or punishing enough , can be long or punishing enough, can it? i believe that we're going to go to sophie reaper now. sophie, thank you very, very much . now, you have been right much. now, you have been right across this from the start. lucy letby didn't actually attend today to hear these final

verdicts, did she? some people are saying the only time that we've seen any emotion out of her really was maybe when she was feeling a bit sorry for herself. what's been going . on herself. what's been going. on >> well, she hasn't actually appeared in the dock for the past few days . a few days ago, past few days. a few days ago, justice goss , the judge justice goss, the judge presiding over this trial, asked the defence where the defendant was, why she wasn't in the dock. the next day, benjamin myers, kc of the defence , came back and of the defence, came back and informed the judge that, in fact, lucy letby had made the decision that she wouldn't be returning to the dock, that she was in fact refusing to appear in the dock. and we now expect that to be the case on on the day of sentencing , which we day of sentencing, which we believe is monday at 10 am. she won't appear in the dock for that sentencing . now, this is an that sentencing. now, this is an issue that has been prevalent over the past year or so. of course, i remember back in april of this year, we spoke after

thomas cashman's sentencing and there was a lot of outrage that he refused to come up to the dock to face the family of nine year old olivia pratt—korbel , year old olivia pratt—korbel, who he was found guilty of murdering . he refused to face murdering. he refused to face her family upon his sentencing. of course, there was the other case jordan mcsweeney refused to come up to the dock after he was found guilty of the murder of zara. lena, this is something thatis zara. lena, this is something that is causing a lot of controversy. a lot of people asking why defendants aren't forced to come up to the dock. now, this is something that justice goss explained yesterday. he doesn't have the power to force any defendant to come up to the dock. they do have their own free will. but the question is, should that be changed? because, of course, for those families who have endured ten months of this trial . and 22 ten months of this trial. and 22 days of jury deliberation , over days of jury deliberation, over 100 hours of deliberations , they 100 hours of deliberations, they will most likely now not get to

look. lucy letby in the eyes as she receives that sentencing. and a lot of people just think that that is totally unfair, that that is totally unfair, that she's able to avoid that 100. >> i mean , should we sentenced >> i mean, should we sentenced on monday? i mean , you can on monday? i mean, you can almost guarantee that she won't emerge for that, will she? so we'll this discussion again we'll have this discussion again then. she plead not guilty, then. she did plead not guilty, obviously. what was what was the defence then? what was she trying to claim . trying to claim. >> well, the defence obviously has been huge. this this trial has been huge. this this trial has taken ten months. so you can imagine the amount of evidence and cross—examination and witnesses that we've been heanng witnesses that we've been hearing throughout this entire process. but one thing that we did continuously hear was throughout lucy letby cross—examination, she was repeatedly asked per counts if it was as a result of a lack of staff on the unit or of incompetence . and often that was incompetence. and often that was her excuse that she said there just weren't enough staff on the unit. but but that really

doesn't excuse the actions that she's. of course, it doesn't excuse the actions she's been found guilty of, but it does raise the question about this inquiry. i know you were saying that the government have now said that there will be an inquiry for exactly what was going on in the countess of chester hospital's neonatal unit between june of 2015 and june of 2016. exactly how was lucy let be able to carry out these acts time and time again? and i'm sure that's something that the inquiry is determined to find out. health secretary steve barclay has said this inquiry will seek to ensure the parents and families impacted get the answers that they need . now answers that they need. now we've heard a state, a joint statement today from the families and they do say they feel justice has been served in terms of lucy letby. but of course there are some families who haven't had the answer. they they feel they need or they feel that lucy letby was, in fact,

guilty and that she deserves us. yeah, absolutely . yeah, absolutely. >> sophie, thank you very, very much. sophie reaper there, who's joining us, of course, out side court there identifying a couple of key things. it is actually so much to this. the fact that lucy let me try to hide behind medical negligence , which medical negligence, which depressingly , depressingly, you depressingly, depressingly, you can do to an extent in the nhs at the moment. she also tries to hide behind, and this is something that she picked up on, by the way, apparently during an interview with police when she was arrested, tried to hide behind the idea that actually if you dealing with premature, you are dealing with premature, very premature babies, that unfortunately it doesn't take a huge amount for them to maybe pass away trying to wriggle out of that one. one thing that i am surprised that she didn't make more of is the perceived mental health line on this. we did hear from numerous psychologies over the course of this trial saying that she's demonstrating narcissistic tendencies , that

narcissistic tendencies, that she's demonstrating munchausen by proxy. but i suspect that the reason behind that was from a criminal psychologist, a forensic psychologist that we heard from earlier on in the show , saying that neither of show, saying that neither of those two conditions, even if they exist, even personality disorder , if that exists, none disorder, if that exists, none of those conditions mean that you do not understand that what you do not understand that what you are doing is evil and wrong and are consequences and that there are consequences for that, you not there for that, le. you are not there for that, le. you are not there for criminally insane and can be excuse used in a sense mentally. from that, i'm joined now by criminal lawyer nick freeman . criminal lawyer nick freeman. nick, thank you . this is, nick, thank you. this is, i believe, the longest murder trial in british history. certainly one of and there's been a lot of ebbs and flows to it, hasn't there, from your perspective, do you think justice has been served here? >> well, it has in part. it's a ten month trial. the verdicts have been returned in batches, 3—3 separate batches . of course, 3—3 separate batches. of course, it's important to remember that

the jury were unable to reach a verdict in relation to six cases and the crown have asked for 28 days to decide what to do in relation to those cases. so yes, in relation to the convictions . in relation to the convictions. and i suppose justice has been done, those families will be satisfied to some extent, of course, from a criminal perspective, but they'll also be very concerned about the way the hospital acted, the way they ignored serious warnings at a very early stage. so there are a whole host of issues that need to be addressed. i don't think anyone is going to come out of this feeling satisfied. i think that's probably the wrong expression. some sort of justice has been done. but as you've already alluded to with your contributors , this should never contributors, this should never have to continue have been allowed to continue for length time and for the length of time and that's the really, truly horrifying thing. you know, managers were told at an early stage of the serious problems and they ignored them and sought to protect lucy as opposed to investigate and give it some give those allegations some

credence. so that's a problem. and we don't know what the crown are going to do in relation to the six verdicts which have not been yet. been returned yet. >> just as little aside, nick, >> just as a little aside, nick, i think it is very, very concerning that the volume of murders and attempted murders, that she had actually been found guilty were of a spike guilty of were part of a spike in general in deaths, baby deaths that hospital and it comes off the back of things at furness general hospital where there was a big maternity scandal there in telford, there were 200 baby deaths. i believe that we've had quite a few in shropshire well with painting shropshire as well with painting and death stating and absolutely death stating picture of maternity care in this country. but nick, to return to something that you said the other ones where said about the other ones where they couldn't reach a verdict , they couldn't reach a verdict, what could happen there then ? what could happen there then? what could happen there ? what could happen there? >> there could be a retrial. the crown have got to decide whether or not there sufficient or not there is sufficient evidence conviction evidence to secure a conviction . i don't there's . i don't think there's any issue of the interests issue in terms of the interests of because in of justice because in allegations of this degree of seriousness, if the evidence is

there, if the crown feel that there, if the crown feel that there is sufficient evidence, ie more than a 50% chance of conviction , i'm quite confident conviction, i'm quite confident that they will seek a retrial in relation to those six outstanding verdicts that haven't yet been returned . for haven't yet been returned. for the sake of the parents, the children who have lost their lives , that that has to be so. lives, that that has to be so. >> if the crown conclude looking at the evidence that the just is insufficient evidence and they don't feel will secure don't feel they will secure convictions or could secure convictions or could secure convictions , then they will not convictions, then they will not not proceed any not elect to proceed any further, can i ask you, nick, in your capacity as a criminal lawyer , you obviously i would lawyer, you obviously i would imagine at times if i had to take clients that you wished maybe you hadn't . maybe you hadn't. >> i suppose when you look at what we know now about lucy letby and some of the evidence that caught up you that caught up with us, you know, times she on know, the times that she was on shift, shift pattern and shift, the shift pattern and that obviously correlating with baby deaths. there was notes that obviously correlating with baby d

massive amount of evidence against her and i'd i would have looked at the psychological issues, the psychiatric issues that she clearly has . they would that she clearly has. they would never have afforded a defence. and i think the reality is the moment she pleads guilty , having moment she pleads guilty, having regard to the gravity of the offences and the number of offences and the number of offences she's going to be sentenced on monday. i think a full life sentence is almost inevitable and i think there's very little a lawyer would be able to do in terms of succeeding in a defence. but of course, you know, i suspect the lawyers will have advised her, given them, given her their their view, how she should plead and what would the incentive be to her to plead , bearing in mind to her to plead, bearing in mind we know certain characters that she possesses . she's quite she possesses. she's quite adamant. she's not attending the verdicts. she's not to going attend for sentencing . so attend for sentencing. so there's no real incentive for

her to attend. and that being so, what has she got to lose by by simply instructing her lawyers to fight it and try and argue, as she did, that it was it was the poor care at the hospital that was responsible because at the moment she pleads guilty. she's probably going to be sentenced to life. and that will live tariff. so will be a whole live tariff. so the incentive will the lack of incentive will probably disincentivise her from pleading guilty . pleading guilty. >> the incentive for maybe for a normal person would be that you wouldn't have to drag out all of the graphic and gruesome details for all of the victims families. obviously and for her own parents. apparently, her mum and dad were attending pretty much every single day . and they were every single day. and they were also saying that her mum was crying when the guilty verdict was read out, saying, how can this a mum at one this be happening? a mum at one point, according to police, tried take responsibility point, according to police, tri

there. to nick freeman, their criminal lawyer, it is interesting to go, well, if she was going to get a full life anyway for pleading guilty, well, pled not guilty well, maybe she pled not guilty because it wouldn't made well, maybe she pled not guilty bectdifference.ldn't made well, maybe she pled not guilty bectdifference. but: made well, maybe she pled not guilty bectdifference. but there made well, maybe she pled not guilty bectdifference. but there is ade well, maybe she pled not guilty bectdifference. but there is aie any difference. but there is a difference there. if you've got an of remorse you've difference there. if you've got an ounce emorse you've difference there. if you've got an ounce of orse you've difference there. if you've got an ounce of heart, you've difference there. if you've got an ounce of heart, reallye difference there. if you've got an ounce of heart, really , got an ounce of heart, really, then you wouldn't have put everyone through all of that and dragged out for ten months, dragged it out for ten months, especially considering that some of the parents of some of the babies that died were made aware years afterwards that their child was part of this. so they've got a knock on the door one day, all of that horror and despair raked up again. then you find that might have despair raked up again. then you find something might have despair raked up again. then you find something underhandave despair raked up again. then you find something underhand going been something underhand going on. it on. then you've got to string it out another months. out for another ten months. i mean, , but somebody mean, i'm sorry, but somebody who is showing any who frankly is showing any remorse whatsoever would not do that , would they? but still to that, would they? but still to come, we are continuing, of course, coverage come, we are continuing, of courafternoon coverage come, we are continuing, of courafternoon of coverage come, we are continuing, of courafternoon of lucy overage come, we are continuing, of courafternoon of lucy letby. e this afternoon of lucy letby. the verdict, she becomes the worst child serial killer in modern british history. lost to impact. lots to unpick. and that death penalty debate is going to be here on the be hard right here on the show very christys

very shortly. patrick christys gb news,

gb news. britain's news. channel returning to that breaking news this afternoon , the government this afternoon, the government has ordered an independent inquiry into the lucy letby case after the nurse was found guilty of murdering babies of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder six others. >> earlier, i spoke to the former home secretary, dane priti patel , about this very priti patel, about this very incident . incident. >> it's a deeply, deeply

horrible, appalling , abhorrent horrible, appalling, abhorrent and traumatic case for those families that have lost their babies. >> it is a horrible case, the one thing i would add, though, is that the government has in recent years changed our laws for individuals that are effectively , you know, deemed to effectively, you know, deemed to have been involved in murdering children and harming children. and it's important that we see those laws put into practise by the courts when it comes to sentencing. so we can't prejudge anything right now . my anything right now. my sympathies are much with with sympathies are so much with with those families. i mean , there those families. i mean, there are no words really for what they have endured, the trauma and the heartbreak and i really think we now need to let this follow the full judicial process. i'm a member of parliament in mid essex and, you know, all mps represent their constituents when it comes to the nhs. but sadly , and i say the nhs. but sadly, and i say this with a very heavy heart , a this with a very heavy heart, a lot of you know, the complaints that come to us are literally that come to us are literally that complaints about either access or services, their own personal experience is. and it's

heartbreaking . it is absolutely heartbreaking. it is absolutely heartbreaking. it is absolutely heartbreaking because they want to know the truth, what happened ? why did things go wrong so there has to be now. and i have no doubt my colleague, the secretary of state for health, will be following this with a great interest. there great deal of interest. there will be all sorts of questions regarding the nhs trust, nhs trust itself, the governance, what procedures did they follow and effectively, you know, what lessons will be learned. lessons will have to be learnt out of this. and personally i think there has to be. there be there has to be. there must be greater calls for transparency within large organisations and institutions such as the nhs . we institutions such as the nhs. we have a similar , not quite have a similar, not quite similar case, but we have a statutory public health inquiry that has been announced into our own mental health trusts, where sadly families have lost loved ones. sadly families have lost loved ones . and we hope now that that ones. and we hope now that that will bring some justice for them. but why? the question has to be why are we going through these lengthy processes to get answers to their question , answers to their question, sometimes years and years or

even a decade after they've lost their loved ones? that is simply not acceptable . not acceptable. >> that's perfectly healthy. you can catch a full extended version of that interview online right now at gbnews.com. a culture of cover up. i think hiding things. culture of cover up. i think hiding things . it sounds very hiding things. it sounds very commonplace in the nhs in general. this is an extreme example . i mean, arguably the example. i mean, arguably the most extreme example , seven baby most extreme example, seven baby murders , six attempted murders, murders, six attempted murders, several other counts, of course, where the jury couldn't reach a verdict . we'll have to wait and verdict. we'll have to wait and see get even see if this could get even worse. there an ongoing worse. there is an ongoing investigation at liverpool women's hospital where lucy letby a little bit of time letby spent a little bit of time working as well. this could still get worse, but i know for a lot of people who use the nhs , they often do feel that whilst it does a lot of great work and whilst it can literally save lives, of course that there is also that culture of cover up and not hiding and protecting each other. but what about

management there at the countess of chester hospital ? have they of chester hospital? have they got any accountable for all of this? i'm just going to read you a couple of things now as to what happened in the run up to eventual lucy letby being arrested and then now found guilty . the hospital's top guilty. the hospital's top manager demanded that some doctors wrote an apology to lucy letby and told them to stop making allegations against her. this was despite numerous doctors making those allegations. two consultants were ordered to attend a mediation with lucy letby. despite thinking that she was killing babies when she was finally moved, she was assigned to the risk and patient safety office, so she wasn't taken out office, so she wasn't taken out of medical care entirely. how does that happen? dr. nigel scorn, who was the medical director at the countess of chester hospital where lucy letby worked, has spoken about today's verdict. i think it's important to just hear what he had to say . had to say. >> i speak for the whole trust when i say how deeply saddened

and appalled we are at lucy letby crimes . letby crimes. >> we are extremely sorry that these crimes were committed at our hospital and our thoughts continue to be with all the families and loved ones of the babies who came to harm or who died . died. >> we cannot begin to understand what they have been through . what they have been through. this case has had a profound impact on our patients and our local community and also our staff who come to work every day determined to provide safe and high quality care for all of our patients . patients. >> our staff are devastated by what has happened, and we are committed to ensuring that lessons continue to be learned . lessons continue to be learned. we are grateful for the cooperation of our staff , cooperation of our staff, especially those that have maintained the utmost professionalism and was giving evidence in this trial. some times on multiple occasions .

times on multiple occasions. >> we will continue to support them and our other staff to ensure that they receive the care and the support that they need. >> we would like to extend our thanks to cheshire police for their extensive investigation and the work that they did to bnng and the work that they did to bring this case to trial . we'd bring this case to trial. we'd also like to thank them for the comprehensive support that they have provided to all the families involved . since lucy families involved. since lucy letby worked at our hospital, we have made significant changes to our services and i want to provide reassurance to every patient that may access our services that they can have confidence in the care that they will receive . finally, and most will receive. finally, and most importantly , our thoughts are importantly, our thoughts are with all the families and loved ones at this very difficult time .thank ones at this very difficult time . thank you. >> what do you make of that? what significant changes you

cannot get around the fact that somebody arguably the worst child serial killer in british history was allowed to prowl the corridors of that hospital despite numerous warnings and numerous warnings from top doctors there, people who were working alongside her. you cannot get around that. and the other thing that you cannot get around message , a around is a text message, a whatsapp message which emerged in court between lucy letby and a doctor, and that doctor said, you are one of the few nurses in the trust that i would trust with my own kids. what on earth does that say about the standard of care at that particular trust? that is more still to come between now and 5:00. we are continuing that coverage, obviously, of lucy letby , the obviously, of lucy letby, the verdict she world's verdict that she is the world's child killer in british child serial killer in british modern british history. and i will joined by conservative will be joined by conservative mp michael fabricant. we're having a look at whether or not justice can ever really be done. should letby be dragged up should lucy letby be dragged up from to face the from the cells to face the sentencing on monday? but right now, as your headlines with

tatiana sanchez . patrick thank you. >> it's 432. this is the latest from the newsroom. former nurse lucy letby has been found guilty of the murder of seven babies. she was also convicted of the attempted murder of six others between 2015 and june. and june 2016 at the countess of chester hospital neonatal ward, the government has ordered an independent inquiry. government has ordered an independent inquiry . a teenager independent inquiry. a teenager has been convicted of 22 counts of rape against six young women. 19 year old cavani queen met most of the victims on social media. the offences took place over a three year period from 2019, when he was 15 years old. and police in northern ireland have revealed they're investigating the loss of an officer's laptop, a notebook which fell from moving vehicle which fell from a moving vehicle yesterday. a man has also been arrested under the terrorism act in connection with last week's

data breach. after the details of 10,000 police officers and staff were published online by mistake . you can get more on all mistake. you can get more on all of those stories by visiting our website, gb news. >> direct bullying sponsors the finance report on gb news for gold and silver investment . gold and silver investment. >> here's a quick snapshot of today's markets . the pound will today's markets. the pound will buy you $1.2725 and ,1.1705. the price of gold is £1,487.61 per ounce. and the ftse 100 . at 7262 points. >> direct bullion sponsors the financial report on gb news for gold and silver investment . gold and silver investment. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar proud sponsors of weather

on . gb news. hello again. on. gb news. hello again. >> it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast . storm betty arrives forecast. storm betty arrives through rest of friday and through the rest of friday and the the weekend, the start of the weekend, bringing gales heavy bringing gales for some heavy rain for many and a few thunderstorms thrown in as well. now, was named by met now, betty was named by met eireann, the irish service eireann, the irish met service because that's where the strongest are strongest of the winds are expected during evening . expected during friday evening. nevertheless, it's a wet and windy spell for much the windy spell for much of the uk as . irish sea coast seeing as well. irish sea coast seeing gales and the risk of 70 mile per hour wind for the far per hour wind gusts for the far southwest of england, especially around beaches. heavy around exposed beaches. heavy rain sweeping through thunderstorms potentially for eastern england could cause some impacts and that wet weather with we start off with us as we start off saturday. only it noisy saturday. not only is it noisy night, it's a warm night and comfortable for sleeping 17 or 18 celsius as we approach dawn on saturday and saturday begins with that storm bringing strong winds to western and northern coasts as well as further heavy rain for scotland and northern

ireland. risk of localised flooding . it does brighten up flooding. it does brighten up through afternoon for through the afternoon for england and wales. spells through the afternoon for e|fewnd and wales. spells through the afternoon for e|few showersiiales. spells through the afternoon for e|few showers yes,.. spells through the afternoon for e|few showers yes, but spells through the afternoon for e|few showers yes, but actuallyls a few showers yes, but actually plenty of fine weather and feeling warm . we've got the feeling warm. we've got the southwesterly airflow and 26 celsius in east celsius is possible in east anglia but not feeling so pleasant for scotland and northern see northern ireland will see further wet weather times . further wet weather at times. much of that's out of the way for sunday. all in all, a brighter with less of a brighter day with less of a brisk wind. it's also going to be increasingly warm in the south during the start of next week. temperatures reaching the high 20s in places, staying changeable further north by a brighter outlook with boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . proud sponsors of weather on. gb news welcome back. >> so the government has ordered an independent inquiry into the lucy letby case after the nurse was found guilty of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder six others everybody

murder six others as everybody by now know, she is now the most prolific child serial killer of modern times. the murders took place between june 2015 and june 2016 at the countess of chester hosphaps 2016 at the countess of chester hospital's neonatal ward. there is an ongoing investigation into two at least two other baby deaths at a liverpool hospital . deaths at a liverpool hospital. the 33 year old will be sentenced on monday . she will, sentenced on monday. she will, in all likelihood not emerge to look the judge in the eye for this sentencing . she will this sentencing. she will probably remain in the cells. she didn't get out of the cells to hear her verdict being read out earlier today. and that i think , is something that really think, is something that really sticks in the craw of a lot of people. i'm joined now by conservative mp lichfield, conservative mp for lichfield, michael . michael, michael fabricant. michael, thank very you thank you very, very much. you know, one that know, one thing that really stands this stands out for me in all of this is just the that was is just the way that this was actually handled by the nhs . how actually handled by the nhs. how you to have top doctors coming to you not lightly at all and essentially saying , i actually essentially saying, i actually am accusing this woman of

murdering babies and for them to do nothing about it . murdering babies and for them to do nothing about it. in murdering babies and for them to do nothing about it . in fact, do nothing about it. in fact, they did do something about it. they those doctors they made those doctors apologise they made apologise to her and they made those doctors mediation those doctors attend mediation meetings with her. and actually, those doctors attend mediation nthink gs with her. and actually, those doctors attend mediation nthink there's her. and actually, those doctors attend mediation nthink there's i think d actually, those doctors attend mediation nthink there's i think there's lly, i think there's i think there's more people who face more people who need to face a courtroom in this . courtroom in this. >> well, it does seem to me, doesn't that , you know, doesn't it, that, you know, we've said we've heard in the past how perhaps doctors try and protect other doctors by ensuring that they're not prosecuted or not having legal actions against them. >> but in this instance, it would seem to be the administrators of the hospital who were at fault, who wanted to do everything , quote, by the do everything, quote, by the book, unquote . book, unquote. >> but in doing so, endangered lives. >> and maybe it was going to be just too much work for them. >> maybe they feared that lucy letby would make a legal complaint against the hospital or something like that. >> if these accusations were treated seriously . but it just treated seriously. but it just does demonstrate it, doesn't it, that they should have listened to the doctors at the hospital who actually did know what they

were talking about? >> well, suspect that they >> well, i suspect that they were also worried about the idea that there would be a baby death scandal at the hospital . we've scandal at the hospital. we've had shropshire. we've had staffordshire, we've had barrow in furness up in cumbria. i mean, there's probably others as well just aware of. well that i'm just not aware of. and to right and don't have to hand right now. appears now. this appears to be happening right happening left, right and centre. of centre. the standard of maternity care in this country is absolutely woeful and i've maternity care in this country is a no lutely woeful and i've maternity care in this country is a no doubt woeful and i've maternity care in this country is a no doubt that ul and i've maternity care in this country is a no doubt that they d i've maternity care in this country is a no doubt that they didn't got no doubt that they didn't want to be added list . want to be added to that list. well, the way that is well, the best way to do that is to essentially not investigate something and hope all goes to essentially not investigate sometinlg and hope all goes to essentially not investigate sometin the nd hope all goes to essentially not investigate sometin the meantime all goes to essentially not investigate sometin the meantime ,ll goes to essentially not investigate sometin the meantime , people away. in the meantime, people die, don't they , michael? and die, don't they, michael? and this is this big problem this is this is a big problem now. i think people answers now. i think people need answers as well . as well. >> look, you know, saying that this is a systemic thing that is happening throughout the whole country is dangerous. >> clearly, this woman is deranged. >> she is a mass murderer. >> she is a mass murderer. >> and you know, you could have the best health care system in the best health care system in the world and you still get a rogue nurse or a rogue practitioner who has clearly got mental problems .

mental problems. >> you know , you can never >> you know, you can never safeguard against that. and i think it's dangerous to actually say that, you know, maternity services in the uk are not up to scratch. >> well, then no, women are going to fear women are going to fear going to hospital . fear going to hospital. >> you know, if we don't be a little bit circumspect in what i understand, the woman will say letby is unique. >> you sneak in her nastiness. >> you sneak in her nastiness. >> but she's absolutely she's absolutely unique . absolutely unique. >> well, i wish it was a bit more unique. i mean, there has been another case of it. but yes, for sake of this yes, for the sake of this argument, in what yes, for the sake of this argun done in what yes, for the sake of this argun done i in what yes, for the sake of this argundone i suppose what yes, for the sake of this argundone i suppose .nhat yes, for the sake of this argundone i suppose . but she's done here. i suppose. but the fact is that her defence relied upon widespread medical negligence and mistakes made by other people, and they were trying to paint a picture of that being commonplace amongst the nhs . i absolutely hear your the nhs. i absolutely hear your point. i don't want to put people off going to using the nhs and getting urgent care and all thankfully all of this stuff. thankfully situations like this are mercifully relatively rare. i

just don't want to see them happening at all. but michael , happening at all. but michael, should she made? she should she be made? should she be made to attend the sentencing, do you think? should she be dragged up from the dock and made to sit there and made to look a in eyes? to look a judge in the eyes? he hopefully hands down a life hopefully hands down a full life tariff or she. >> i would say so . yes, i would >> i would say so. yes, i would say so. yes >> i mean, i think that, you know , sometimes we're just to know, sometimes we're just to kind to people who perpetrate evil. >> you know, i sometimes wonder if adolf hitler had actually survived the second world war. would he have pleaded in defence at nuremberg , where the trials at nuremberg, where the trials were? of all those war criminals would he have pleaded, you know what, i'm mad , so you can't what, i'm mad, so you can't really sentence me. there's something wrong with me. >> and you know what? i'm so mad. >> i don't want to even go to the trial . the trial. >> i just think you make an interesting point about whether or not we are too soft on people who have been found guilty of

the most heinous crimes and the most hideous crimes. the most heinous crimes and the most hideous crimes . and it most hideous crimes. and it can't really get any worse . then can't really get any worse. then there's one last one with you, michael. where are you on the death penalty ? death penalty? >> well, generally speaking , i'm >> well, generally speaking, i'm actually against the death penalty. what i have said publicly is that if there were an armed robbery or some other event of that type where people take weapons and knowingly and, you know, considering it in advance, fire on police officers, then i would be inclined to say, well, providing the burden of proof is very tough, because, of course, once you've given the death penalty, you've given the death penalty, you can't then say, oh, we made a mistake and we're going to release you from that. once you know it's been done, generally speaking , know it's been done, generally speaking, i'm against it, know it's been done, generally speaking , i'm against it, but know it's been done, generally speaking, i'm against it, but i do said in the instance of do as said in the instance of armed robberies would consider actually bringing it back. >> wow. michael thank you. michael fabricant, that, of course , the conservative mp for course, the conservative mp for litchfield field. the actual opinion poll figures when it comes to the death penalty

discussion are actually quite revealing. we're very split as a nafion revealing. we're very split as a nation when it comes to things like terror offences. i we'll have a look, of course , that the have a look, of course, that the ones the about when it ones in the break about when it comes to child killers as well. but i suspect similar to but i suspect they're similar to how people feel about terror offences that people do think a majority of brits think that we should death should bring about the death penalty comes to in penalty when it comes to in general for other crimes. so regulation murder as it were, less so, but it would be interesting to see if that was put referendum for crimes put to a referendum for crimes exactly has exactly like what lucy letby has been convicted of, whether or not people would be favour of not people would be in favour of the death penalty. but the point that there, which that michael raised there, which is do is something i'm going to do when , is the when i come back, is about the psychology. she's psychology. he said. well she's clearly she's got mental clearly she's clearly got mental problems . there clearly she's clearly got mental problems. there is obviously a very strong case to say that anybody anything like anybody who does anything like this has mental this very clearly has mental problems. yes, course they this very clearly has mental proinons. yes, course they this very clearly has mental proino normal course they this very clearly has mental proino normal person se they this very clearly has mental proino normal person goeszy this very clearly has mental proino normal person goes and do. no normal person goes and murders seven babies, do they? but the mental problems that she has allegedly having, such has been allegedly having, such as munch and by proxy narcissism

, a hero complex from what i can understand so far, to talking forensic psychologists, they say that that in no way means that you are not able to understand the seriousness of what you do and the consequences of your actions. and they are not the kind mental problems in kind of mental problems that in my view, should for my view, should be used for mitigation . i am patrick mitigation. i am patrick christys we are christys on gb news. we are britain's news and britain's news channel and i will in just a tick.

sunday mornings from 930 on. gb news. >> welcome back. patrick christys on gb news. two police guests coming your way on the lucy letby case. now this is the breaking story of the afternoon. the got this the government has got this impending inquiry going on into the deaths caused by lucy letby. i am joined now by former deputy assistant commissioner at the met police , stephen roberts . met police, stephen roberts. thank you very much, stephen. what do you make of this investigation? because actually what do you make of this inwas gation? because actually what do you make of this inwas partyn? because actually what do you make of this inwas part of because actually what do you make of this inwas part of a ecause actually what do you make of this inwas part of a wider; actually it was part of a wider investigation called operation hummingbird into baby deaths in general. that has now culminated in britain's worst ever child serial killer. >> if we can draw anything out of the whole incident, i suppose we can say that it was a very successful investigation. the investigating team was able to put forward sufficient evidence about these truly appalling acts to convince a jury who was looking at the person accused that, in fact , she wasn't an

that, in fact, she wasn't an innocent victim of some sort of conspiracy or some strange allegations. she was, in fact, the murderer. they've provided all the evidence that was necessary to convince a jury of independent people that that was the case. >> so you're a former police officer when you're a police officer when you're a police officer , you're looking at all officer, you're looking at all the harrowing details this . the harrowing details of this. so she tried to so you know that she tried to inflict as much pain as possible inflict as much pain as possible in certain circumstances to the extent where experienced paediatricians have said that they had never heard screaming like it, you do know that she's tried to do it in a variety of different ways, so it looks as though to cover her though she's tried to cover her tracks. dare say that you tracks. i dare say that you might have if you believe that evil exists, you have felt evil exists, you might have felt as though you looking at evil exists, you might have felt as howgh you looking at evil exists, you might have felt as howgh you keeplooking at evil exists, you might have felt as howgh you keep yourng at evil exists, you might have felt as howgh you keep your cool as it. how do you keep your cool as a ? a police officer? >> that's part of the professionalism of being a police officer. >> if you can't keep your cool, you shouldn't be there in the first place. although i have to

say i would responsible for people's occupational health in the latter part of my career , the latter part of my career, and i worried far more about the people who weren't affected by deaung people who weren't affected by dealing with this sort of case or cases that were equally appalling, but always we would expect them to deal with the person and the case profession and professionally and then have time and the care that they needed to recover from it afterwards. but undoubtedly this inflicts harm on the investigating officers . investigating officers. >> oh, absolutely . and i think >> oh, absolutely. and i think i'm really glad that you've made that point . we obviously know that point. we obviously know about know about about the victims. we know about the families. know the victims families. we know about some of other doctors the victims families. we know about soninvolved other doctors the victims families. we know about soninvolved andr doctors that were involved and desperately trying to point this out . but harm desperately trying to point this out. but harm the desperately trying to point this out . but harm the people out. but the harm on the people who've got to investigate this out. but the harm on the people who'yare ot to investigate this out. but the harm on the people who'yare not) investigate this out. but the harm on the people who'yare not just estigate this out. but the harm on the people who'yare not just caseste this out. but the harm on the people who'yare not just cases like is stuff are not just cases like this. mean, do really see this. i mean, you do really see the very of us, the very, very worst of us, don't you? look, stephen, thank you much. stephen roberts, you very much. stephen roberts, he's deputy assistant he's the former deputy assistant commissioner met police. he's the former deputy assistant com gotsioner met police.

he's the former deputy assistant com got another met police. he's the former deputy assistant com got another formerzt police. he's the former deputy assistant com got another former police :e. i've got another former police officer now, williams, who officer now, peter williams, who joins me. peter, great to have you on the show . when you get you on the show. when you get cases like this, okay, do you think that they are criminals or are they mentally ill ? are they mentally ill? >> well , the job of the >> well, the job of the investigation team is to stephen stills have hinted at is really to secure the evidence. >> you're not there really to you're not really there to look at the sort of motivations as such into the alleged offender. >> um , in this case, of course, >> um, in this case, of course, the it's been deemed that in the case of nurse leprae, she was certainly fit for interview and she certainly being fit for trial . trial. >> and far trial. >> and as far as the investigation team goes in their interest, that's as far as they're really interested in. but what will it will be an issue on monday at the sentencing when her defence team, of course, stand up to offer the mitigation and it'll

be interesting to hear what they've got to say . but what they've got to say. but what i would say in relation to this particular investigation , when particular investigation, when we look back at it and reflect on its complexity , i'm sure on its complexity, i'm sure we'll find it's on a comparison with the complexity of, for example, the ripper inquiry. but investigation back in the late 70s, 90s , such as being the 70s, 90s, such as being the complexity , the difference in complexity, the difference in his case, of course , effectively his case, of course, effectively the offenders being known since day one. it's just a case of securing the evidence , not the securing the evidence, not the case in the in as we know with the in the case of the yorkshire ripper. but it underlines , ripper. but it underlines, patrick, the complexity these days of police investigations like this and we've seen this over the past couple of months, particularly here on merseyside, with the conviction of thomas cashman in the killing of nine year old olivia and of course recently the sad case of ellie edwards in every police successful investigate in these

days, in every one, there is now an elements of forensic evidence necessary that wasn't the case in my day in steven roberts's day , particularly in an day, particularly in an adversarial criminal justice system, when there was an overreliance from investigate letters on confession evidence , letters on confession evidence, those days have now gone . and he those days have now gone. and he spoke about the professionalism . and he's quite right with that. but we really should be thanking the professionalism of this investigation team from chelsea constabulary. >> we absolutely should. it was a massive operation and one of the unique complexities with this is how difficult it is to prove malicious intent when you are dealing with somebody who is deaung are dealing with somebody who is dealing with very, very, very vulnerable young premature babies who unfortunately , babies who unfortunately, unfortunately, in it often doesn't take too much for them to die, and therefore proving that somebody is doing that

deliberately they're also deliberately whilst they're also covering their tracks as well, using variety different using a variety of different methods in order to do it, it really is difficult. i've got to ask you, because we've only got about left in the about a minute or so left in the last having about a minute or so left in the lélook having about a minute or so left in the lélook at having about a minute or so left in the lélook at some having about a minute or so left in the lélook at some of having about a minute or so left in the lélook at some of the having about a minute or so left in the lélook at some of the opinion] a look at some of the opinion polling around the death penalty, and i'm always intrigued to ask police officers this deal this question because you deal with violent, hard and horrific people who many joe bloggs like me, might say, what's the point of keeping them alive? so 55% of people would support bringing back the death penalty for the murder of a child . where are you murder of a child. where are you on ? on that? >> well , the death penalty was >> well, the death penalty was abolished in the united kingdom in 1964, and of course, during our membership of the european union, it was off the table for the debate as it was , if you the debate as it was, if you remember, of the eu. there was no death penalty ever going to be implementing again. no death penalty ever going to be implementing again . i am be implementing again. i am opposed to it per se. don't agree with michael fabricant either for this particular

reason. all criminal justice system is based on the principle of deterrence, not retribution, and on those grounds i am totally opposed to it. what i would remind listeners and viewers is this whilst the death penalty is retained in places like other western like the united states and a number of states have either suspended or they have abolished, they have . they have abolished, they have. >> yeah, absolutely. look peter, thank you very, very much. much appreciated. is peter williams there? former police officer? a lot more still to come in the next hour. will be discussing next hour. i will be discussing this verdict ongoing . we'll drop this verdict ongoing. we'll drop a couple of other news stories in you as well. in there for you as well. patrick gb news, patrick christys. gb news, britain's news channel, the temperatures rising , boxt solar temperatures rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello again. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast. storm betty arrives through the rest of friday and the start of the weekend,

bringing gales for some heavy rain many and a few rain for many and a few thunderstorms thrown in as well . now betty was named by met eireann, irish met eireann, the irish met service because that's where the strongest of the winds are expected friday evening. expected during friday evening. nevertheless, a wet and nevertheless, it's a wet and windy spell for of the uk windy spell for much of the uk as well. sea seeing as well. irish sea coast seeing gales and the risk of 70 mile per hour wind gusts for the far southwest england , especially southwest of england, especially around beaches, heavy around exposed beaches, heavy rain sweeping through thunderstorms potentially for eastern england could cause some impacts and that wet weather with as we start off with us as we start off saturday. not is noisy saturday. not only is it noisy night, it's a warm night and comfortable for sleeping 17 or 18 celsius as we approach dawn on saturday and saturday begins with that storm bringing strong winds to western and northern coasts as well as further heavy rain for scotland and northern ireland. risk of localised flooding. it does brighten up through the afternoon for england sunny spells england and wales. sunny spells a actually a few showers, yes, but actually plenty of fine weather and feeling warm . we've got the feeling warm. we've got the southwesterly airflow and 26 celsius next

celsius is possible at next anglia but not feeling so pleasant scotland and pleasant for scotland and northern ireland. we see northern ireland. we will see further at times. further wet weather at times. much that's out of the way much of that's out of the way for all in all, for sunday. all in all, a brighter day with less of a brisk wind. it's also going to be increasingly warm in the south during the start of next week. temperatures reaching the high 20s in places, staying changeable further north . by the

gb news way. >> it's 5 pm. it's patrick christie's is gb news. it is a monumental day in british history. why? well, because we now worst child serial now have the worst child serial killer of modern times. lucy letby guilty of seven murders, six attempted murders . and six attempted murders. and frankly, as well, there could be others on the way. we're going to be discussing about loads of different this, how different elements to this, how did a culture did this happen? a culture of cover up, a culture blame cover up, a culture of blame game going on in the nhs. how many people had to raise warnings before lucy letby was brought to justice? i think that's an absolute scandal. does evil exist ? she's tried to show evil exist? she's tried to show no remorse for this so far. the only times that she's ever cried appeared to have been for herself . she's refusing to come herself. she's refusing to come and herself at the dock and present herself at the dock or get sentenced on or she will get sentenced on monday should she be dragged kicking and screaming, the kicking and screaming, by the way, the way, and should actually the sentence this we're sentence be this death? we're going to be having death going to be having a death penalty hour when it penalty debate this hour when it comes killers 55% of

comes to child killers 55% of brits think that they should be executed. where are you on that? but yes, i think this could even get worse. there's an ongoing investigation into her time at another hospital and bear in mind that the only reason this all came light was because all came to light was because police were investigating a general spike in baby deaths . it general spike in baby deaths. it is absolutely harrowing. patrick christys . gb news this hour, i'm christys. gb news this hour, i'm going to be analysing the psychology of people who commit crimes like this. whether or not there can be any excuse for mental health. i'll be to talking two police officers and i a debate on i will be having a debate on whether or not should whether or not we should bring up for child up the death penalty for child killers. gb views are gb news.com, but right it's news.com, but right now it's your headlines. >> patrick thank you and good afternoon . this is the latest afternoon. this is the latest from the gb newsroom . former from the gb newsroom. former nurse lucy letby has been found guilty of the murder of seven babies. she's the uk's most

prolific killer of babies in modern times . letby has also modern times. letby has also been found guilty of the attempted murder of six others between june 2015 and june 2016 at the countess of chester hosphaps at the countess of chester hospital's neonatal ward. the 33 year old will be sentenced on monday . the department of health monday. the department of health says an independent inquiry will be held into the case and will examine the circumstances surrounding the deaths and the incidents . crown prosecutor incidents. crown prosecutor pascal jones says that her attacks were a complete betrayal of the trust placed in her. little did those working alongside her know that there was a murderer in their midst. >> she did her utmost to conceal her crimes by varying the ways in which she repeatedly harmed babies in her care . babies in her care. >> she sought to deceive her colleagues and pass off the harm she caused as nothing more than a worsening of each baby's existing vulnerability .

existing vulnerability. >> dr. nigel scorn, medical director at the countess of chester hospital, ensured his commitment to lessons being learned. >> this case has had a profound impact on our patients and our local community and also our staff who come to work every day determined to provide safe and high quality care for all of our patients . patients. >> our staff are devastated by what has happened , and we are what has happened, and we are committed to ensuring that lessons continue to be learnt. >> former home secretary priti patel says justice must be served in line with strict government laws when it comes to such horrific crimes . this is a such horrific crimes. this is a deeply, deeply horrible , deeply, deeply horrible, appalling, abhorrent and traumatic case for those families that have lost their babies . it is families that have lost their babies. it is a horrible case. the one thing i would add, though, is that the government has in recent years changed our laws for individual schools that are effectively , you know,

are effectively, you know, deemed to have been involved in murdering children and harming children. and it's important that we see those laws put into practise by courts when it practise by the courts when it comes to sentencing. so we can't pre—judge anything right now . my pre—judge anything right now. my sympathies are so much with with those families. mean, there those families. i mean, there are no words really . elsewhere are no words really. elsewhere a businessman has been found guilty of orchestrating a bomb plot against lawyers in a row over £1.4 million. jonathan nuttall was convicted of conspiring with his driver and an ex—marine to plant two devices in london's legal district. the four month trial heard that nuttall had been pursued by the national crime agency over the seizure of assets. agency over the seizure of assets . an old bailey jury assets. an old bailey jury deliberated for 25 hours to convict the three men. police the northern ireland have arrested a man in connection with the psni data breach . a 50 with the psni data breach. a 50 year old man has been detained in county londonderry under the terrorism act and is being questioned . another man was questioned. another man was arrested yesterday on suspicion of collecting information likely

to be useful to terrorists . last to be useful to terrorists. last week, the details of 10,000 police officers and staff were published online by mistake, followed by a second breach relating to stolen documents and a laptop . well, it comes as a laptop. well, it comes as police in northern ireland have revealed they're investigating the loss of an officer's laptop and notebook which fell from a moving vehicle yesterday . the moving vehicle yesterday. the service says the laptop was deactivated and has been recovered , but sections of the recovered, but sections of the notebook remain missing. the contents of the book are unclear . gb news can reveal more than 25,000 migrants have crossed the channel since rishi sunak became prime minister the figure was reached just after midday today after the border force vessel ranger arrived at dover harbour with 57 people on board. that means 1 in 4 crossings since 2018 have happened, whilst mr sunak has been in number ten, stopping the boats as one of the government's five priority train drivers will strike on the 1st of september and overtime will

be banned. the day after in a long dispute over pay. long running dispute over pay. the force train the strike will force train companies across england to cancel all services while the ban overtime will seriously ban on overtime will seriously disrupt the network. it will be the 12th one day strike by aslef members since the dispute started a year ago . and finally, started a year ago. and finally, cornwall council and devon and cornwall council and devon and cornwall police will allow pubs and clubs across the country to open at 10:00 in the morning for the world cup final this sunday. the decision comes after michael gove wrote to councils across britain requesting earlier opening times for fans to go and watch the match. foreign secretary james cleverly and culture, media and sport secretary lucy frazer will be representing the country at that match against spain . this is gb match against spain. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's back to .

patrick >> well, the government has now ordered this independent inquiry into the lucy letby case, but sick of independent inquiries, to be honest with you , i'd much to be honest with you, i'd much rather these situations never happenedin rather these situations never happened in first but happened in the first place. but the guilty of the nurse was found guilty of murdering babies, murdering seven babies, attempting to murder six others. she is now the uk's most prolific killer of babies in modern times. journalists have been found guilty, of course, that murder that the attempted murder between june 2015 and 2016, the countess of chester hospital's neonatal ward . there's an neonatal ward. there's an ongoing investigation into time that she spent at a maternity ward in liverpool as well. the 33 year old will be sentenced on monday. she is unlikely to attend that sentencing, mainly because she didn't attend the verdict . she because she didn't attend the verdict. she is because she didn't attend the verdict . she is not expressed verdict. she is not expressed any remorse . in fact, even any remorse. in fact, even though even though her legal team were saying to her, well, look, you're going to get a full life term probably if you plead guilty anyway, you could argue that there will be a case for not dragging this out, putting the victim's families through

all putting own all of this, putting her own family through of this , our family through all of this, our mental health issues play mental health issues to play here. there is talk of having some narcissism or some kind of no narcissism or munchausen by proxy or even a hero complex that is slightly countered by some of the claims that were heard court about that were heard in court about her fancying. of doctors her fancying. one of the doctors and wanting to spend time with him to him whilst they tried to resuscitate and resuscitate babies and then grieve afterwards. it grieve together afterwards. it is a very, complex case and is a very, very complex case and one that strikes right to the very heart. i think of the way the actually handles the nhs actually handles complaints to begin with and whether or not we can be safe . whether or not we can be safe. we'll be discussing all of this. but first our reporter sophie reaperis but first our reporter sophie reaper is live at manchester crown court and has been for us all day. we now have the worst child serial killer in modern british history and someone who has shown little to no remorse, someone who we are expecting not to be attending in person. the sentencing , which will take sentencing, which will take place on monday. but it has been an incredibly complex case, sophie, and one that has been

very hard to prove . very hard to prove. >> yeah, it has indeed. patrick of course, you mentioned that it began all the way back in october of last year. we're now ten months on from that point. the jury and the lengths that they've taken in their deliberations as well, i think is a great example of just how complex it was. justice goss sent them out back on the 10th of july. since then, they've had 22 days of deliberation , a total 22 days of deliberation, a total of 110 hours and 26 minutes of deliberations , just trying to deliberations, just trying to come to some verdicts on those 22 counts on the indictment . and 22 counts on the indictment. and as each of the verdicts was coming in one by one and we were getting close to her reaching the title, i suppose , of most the title, i suppose, of most prolific serial killer children in modern history. the tension was building in the courtroom, as we all knew . the was building in the courtroom, as we all knew. the number was set at five. rosemary west and as it came in and then as that

sixth one, there were gasps in the room as people really eyes that that indeed was the case, that that indeed was the case, thatis that that indeed was the case, that is now what lucy letby will be known as as the most prolific serial killer of children in modern uk history. but as you say for that, those final days , say for that, those final days, we haven't seen anything of lucy letby. she's refused to come up to the dock . justice goss asked to the dock. justice goss asked what that was all about, and benjamin myers of the defence said that that was just the decision she has made , that she decision she has made, that she will no longer be appearing in the dock. and we now imagine that will remain the for case the sentencing, that she will refuse to appear in front of justice goss as he lays out the sentence for her crimes . sentence for her crimes. >> now, indeed . look, sophie, >> now, indeed. look, sophie, thank you very, very much. sophie reaper there. he's been live with us throughout at manchester crown court . dr. manchester crown court. dr. naomi murphy will join me in a second. now dr. naomi is a forensic psychology at lots of

different aspects to this. well, you might have seen a little shot there of the moment of lucy levy's arrest. hopefully we might be able to play that again for you in a sec, because i'm talking. the talking. but and so when the police attended her house, they said that she had a messy, disorganised but childlike home. so things like loads of stuffed animals on her bed and a child's duvet cover, she a lot of her friends were saying or a lot of her colleagues were saying was quite child like in a lot of ways. as i bring dr. naomi ways. but as i bring dr. naomi in dr. naomi murphy, in now, dr. naomi murphy, a forensic psychologist , there is forensic psychologist, there is also talk of things like not like munchausen by proxy , like like munchausen by proxy, like having a hero come complex and whether or not any of that can be used as mitigation for, frankly, the most appalling and heinous crimes that anyone can actually imagine , whether that actually imagine, whether that will go on have an impact on will go on to have an impact on her naomi , your her sentence. dr. naomi, your views from what we know so far as to whether or not lucy letby is evil or insane .

is evil or insane. >> i think the bottom line is having worked with, you know, many people over a 20 year penod many people over a 20 year period who've killed is psychologically healthy people do not kill, you know , people do not kill, you know, people who murder have generally experienced profound abuse and neglect themselves during childhood. and there's a difficulty in how they cope with their emotions . so the crimes their emotions. so the crimes are heinous , but this is a very are heinous, but this is a very disordered response to somebody own probably difficult experiences . not that that experiences. not that that justifies them, but i think it does offer an explanation . does offer an explanation. >> what is munchausen by proxy? this is something that raised its head in court. i'm quite keen to find out a bit more about it . about it. >> well , the we now tend to talk >> well, the we now tend to talk more about factitious disorder , more about factitious disorder, which is about feigning symptoms of illness . and by proxy, you do of illness. and by proxy, you do that. of illness. and by proxy, you do that . you would do that by that. you would do that by feigning symptoms of illness in a in a child. and i don't think that this applies in this case

because the intention does appear to have been to actually kill the children . kill the children. >> that's interesting . okay. >> that's interesting. okay. right. so you think that it wasn't about bringing attention onto herself ? if it was about onto herself? if it was about fundamentally , from what you fundamentally, from what you understand of this case, about it, actually straightforwardly killing children, because another element to this was this supposed hero complex, apparently , lucy letby had a bit apparently, lucy letby had a bit of a thing for a married doctor on the ward and would allow babies to crash or actively try to kill them in order to try to resuscitate them with this guy that she fancied . and then they that she fancied. and then they could grieve together via messenger afterwards . so you messenger afterwards. so you don't think that maybe there was just some singular desire to bnng just some singular desire to bring attention onto herself then ? then? >>i then? >> i think i think there are a number of reasons why healthcare professionals may act out in this kind of way. i think the two that stand out to be most likely are. i do think there probably was a wish seen probably was a wish to be seen

as comforting , as the most comforting, supportive nurse the unit, as the most comforting, suppo wouldjrse the unit, as the most comforting, suppo would give the unit, as the most comforting, suppo would give here unit, as the most comforting, suppo would give her some , as the most comforting, suppo would give her some kind which would give her some kind of status. i think of special status. i think there's also the possibility that she was envious of the family units and wish to destroy or damage the parents. and my reason for thinking that is there's this preoccupation with there's this preoccupation with the families . she was searching the families. she was searching for them on facebook . she was for them on facebook. she was taking photographs of cars that she sent to them. these are all signs that the relationship with the themselves was the parents themselves was actually a key part the actually a key part of the incentive to kill the babies . incentive to kill the babies. >> apparently, whilst the babies were fading out of life or how just died, she was going into the rooms with the parents and saying, do you want me to bathe the baby for you? do you want me to take pictures at all? basically being a bit too busy. and they described her well and they described her as well as being quite, quite gleeful, almost excitable , i think is the almost excitable, i think is the right word. what's that about ? right word. what's that about? >> well, i think one of the things that's quite striking is how close together of the how close together some of the murders were and the attempts to

murder. because quite when murder. because quite often when people murder, there's sense murder. because quite often when peremorserder,there's sense murder. because quite often when pe remorse and there's sense murder. because quite often when pe remorse and a|ere's sense murder. because quite often when pe remorse and a crushinganse murder. because quite often when pe remorse and a crushing sense of remorse and a crushing sense of remorse and a crushing sense of guilt and shame afterwards. and then a gradual build up to that again . but actually, what that again. but actually, what was really striking about lucy letby is the fact that she murdered one child and then she would have another go at murdering another child very soon after. so that would suggest some kind of thrill at taking life , some kind of thrill taking life, some kind of thrill of taking life. >> i mean, there's even a thing where she went or killed a child , a baby just before she went on a holiday and then went away to ibiza. i think it was then came back and killed immediately afterwards. and actually sent a bit of a jokey whatsapp saying , bit of a jokey whatsapp saying, i'm back. i'm back with a bang . i'm back. i'm back with a bang. what do you make of what the police said about her proper ? police said about her proper? they said it was a bit a bit messy and disorganised. right. but then also that there was a childlike element to it. lots of cuddly bed , a cuddly toys on the bed, a child's duvet while she was in the dock when she was bothering to attend, she was wrapped a

to attend, she was wrapped in a comfort blanket, had some kind to attend, she was wrapped in a co cuddlylanket, had some kind to attend, she was wrapped in a co cuddly stress, had some kind to attend, she was wrapped in a co cuddly stress toy.i some kind to attend, she was wrapped in a co cuddly stress toy. isome kind to attend, she was wrapped in a co cuddly stress toy. is this kind of cuddly stress toy. is this all pointing towards, do you think , big childhood think, big childhood psychological issues here? to me , i you know, over 20 years of working with people who kill and commit the most serious violent offences , i haven't met somebody offences, i haven't met somebody who have that kind of who doesn't have that kind of profound history of trauma and think be cruel or to kill one think to be cruel or to kill one has to have experience quite profound cruelty on self. >> now it's hard to comment on the bedroom because that could just be something being just be something that's being made blown up into a bigger thing. it's people who've thing. but it's people who've had experiences during had abusive experiences during childhood. some of those people do end up a bit emotionally stunted at the age with which which they were abused themselves and neglected . and themselves and neglected. and just to add that obviously the vast majority of people who are abused or neglected in childhood do not go on to commit acts of murder . murder. >> now as yet, no remorse, no pubuc >> now as yet, no remorse, no public remorse . okay. no public remorse. okay. no admittance as yet of these

crimes. do people who are, let's say , extreme narcissist, which say, extreme narcissist, which is something that's again, been levelled at her? you might want to explain a bit what that that means as well by the way. but do these people admit to themselves what they've done ? what they've done? >> i think the people who commit these kinds of crimes end up being quite disconnected from their emotional self and being very compartmental ized and finding it easier to just switch off and detach from it wouldn't be possible to kill a child without being able to do that to be honest. so there is something about her experiences where she's had to find a way, i would suggest, to cope with her own distress, and she's done that by shutting down and switching off. and that's then made it possible to do these heinous acts . to do these heinous acts. >> do you think she'll be enjoying this attention ? enjoying this attention? >> part of it may well be enjoying the attention. i think it's interesting that she's she's actually had quite a lot of media attention anyway during the course of quite a short

career, actually, as a nurse. she'd been featured in the standard, being interviewed about her job being fronted to fundraising campaigns and think if you if there is a motivation there to be the most comforting and supportive nurse, i think that that narcissism may well be a part of that. and by narcissism on being a sense of a grandiose need for attention which develops when people feel very defective , not good about very defective, not good about themselves. so they end up then seeking out, trying to have this special status . and in lucy special status. and in lucy levy's case, it seems like this seeking out a special status as you know, massive cost to other people just very finely with you. >> dr. naomi, does any of that in any way you think make her less culpable for the ultimate actions which are . seven murders actions which are. seven murders and six attempted murders . and six attempted murders. >> i think the reality is with anyone who's who's killed, there

is always there's a jigsaw that you can put together and you could understand why they've been so disturbed that they've acted out that the way they have . that doesn't mean she's not responsible for her actions or doesn't to take doesn't need to take responsibility for them . responsibility for them. >> okay. well, dr. naomi, thank you very much. that was a lot out at that. thank you. dr. naomi there. a forensic naomi murphy there. a forensic psychologist. yeah it's interesting as well. i was doing psychologist. yeah it's inbitesting as well. i was doing psychologist. yeah it's inbit ofing as well. i was doing psychologist. yeah it's inbit of reading ell. i was doing psychologist. yeah it's inbit of reading up i was doing psychologist. yeah it's inbit of reading up on vas doing a bit of reading up on narcissism as well before this. and a lot of people say, oh, how she earth is she going to she on earth is she going to cope and things? cope in in prison and things? and it's interesting that apparently in a lot of cases of extreme and they extreme narcissism and they absolutely cannot bring harm to themselves, but they find it very easy to harm others . very easy to harm others. patrick christys on gb news. we are britain's news channel. plenty more to including plenty more to come, including we're going having we're going to be having a debate. bring back the we're going to be having a debatepenalty? bring back the we're going to be having a debatepenalty? 55%)ring back the we're going to be having a debatepenalty? 55% of1g back the we're going to be having a debatepenalty? 55% of brits:k the we're going to be having a debatepenalty? 55% of brits do he death penalty? 55% of brits do think this is the latest yougov poll . do you think this is the latest yougov poll. do you think that child killer receive the death killer should receive the death penalty? are you on that? penalty? where are you on that? i've got lot emails on i've got a lot of emails on it. i'll i come i'll go to those when i come back. gb views. gb news. i've

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britain's news. channel >> welcome back. this is gb news. with me, patrick christie's. lots to talk about today when it comes to lucy letby. of course, guilty now of murdering seven babies, attempting to murder six others. that 33 year old monster will face sentencing on monday. we are joined now by andrew griffith, the economics

secretary to the treasury and a conservative mp who i will discuss something other than lucy letby with very shortly. but obviously, in light of the news agenda of the day , one of news agenda of the day, one of the biggest concerns for me, for my viewers and listeners, is that this was allowed to go on for so long. whether or not for so long. and whether or not it indicates an issue within the nhs of not handling complaints well enough and a concern about what that means for current patients . yeah, look , i mean, as patients. yeah, look, i mean, as a parent myself , this is a a parent myself, this is a horrendous case and i suspect, like all of your viewers , my like all of your viewers, my thoughts go out to all of the parents there , wider families , parents there, wider families, absolutely terrible instance. >> the health sector has announced, quite rightly , an announced, quite rightly, an inquiry. that's what needs to get to the bottom of this , he get to the bottom of this, he said. and i think that's right, that he's very open to the families , the parents themselves families, the parents themselves being involved in shaping the scope of that inquiry and

clearly we need to learn whatever lessons there can be. this isn't the first instance. it's very , very important that it's very, very important that we all learn those lessons. i don't know what they are now, but that would be the purpose of an inquiry . and my thoughts go an inquiry. and my thoughts go out to the parents. >> yeah, and look for what it's worth, i'm just asking this to the vast majority of my guests because this is something that rears when situations a rears its head when situations a bit like this arise. cases a bit like this arise . where? where like this arise. where? where are you on the death penalty ? are you on the death penalty? >> well, we saw look , i mean, we >> well, we saw look, i mean, we saw a couple of weeks ago, didn't we, that equally horrific example where what turns out to be an innocent person's being held in jail because of a miscarriage of justice for 20 years. so no system , whether years. so no system, whether it's the nhs or the criminal justice system, is infallible. i wasn't clearly there, but i suspect that's why parliament in the past has voted to not have the past has voted to not have the death penalty . and if i may

the death penalty. and if i may humbly, i think that's a little bit of a i understand people's emotions . i bit of a i understand people's emotions. i think that's a distraction right now from the utter horror that so many people will be feeling. but what actually needs to happen, which is we need to learn really quickly what lessons can be learned, what could have been done differently , and to make done differently, and to make sure that this never happens again. yeah, the there's a lot of explaining to do at the council. >> chester hospital trust , >> chester hospital trust, that's for sure. i'll veer away from lucy letby now. thank you very much for talking to us about that. want to talk a bit about that. i want to talk a bit more about matter how more about the matter and how much our don't more about the matter and how muccash our don't more about the matter and how muccash campaign. our don't more about the matter and how muccash campaign. our dobeen kill cash campaign. we've been handing in a petition yesterday i was on downing street with nigel farage, liam halligan bev turner michelle dewberry. we assembled a motley crew and we descended downing street descended on on downing street and we handed a petition with 300,000 signatures it. since 300,000 signatures on it. since then, there's been some action actually, i'm reading actually, because i'm reading here the public and here about give the public and businesses cash access within within a three mile radius of

wherever you are. so we have got some action out of this campaign. why is that important? why is the campaign so important ? >> well, 7 >> well, patrick, you've got a lot of action and all of those , lot of action and all of those, whether my parliamentary colleagues or campaigners in the press and media who rightly are concerned about protecting our access to cash should feel very encouraged by the action that we've taken both yesterday i announced new policies that will put some real flesh on the bones of what parliament back in july mandated , which is everybody mandated, which is everybody should have reasonable access to cash. should have reasonable access to cash . that means both the cash. that means both the ability to withdraw your cash and atm machine at a location that's convenient to you. most places in the uk that'll be a mile in rural areas for understandable reasons. that will be a radius of three miles. as important because i know folk want to use their cash when they're paying for an ice cream or sending a birthday card to a

grandparent. a grandchild or something . we'll make sure that something. we'll make sure that businesses can have the ability to deposit their takings because that's often what is a deterrent to businesses accepting cash. so cash for us as consumers, we can go along. this is free. this is not about some machine that's going to charge you £2 for taking out a that doesn't count free access to withdraw your cash. but also convenient ability for businesses to pay to pay ability for businesses to pay to pay in their cash takings. we all know it's changing, right? we all we all you know, we use our tap and go cards as well. the latest figures is over 90% of us are using that . but there of us are using that. but there are some really, really important reasons. i think your campaign has highlighted some of them. why cash is important, right? those digital payment methods are not for everybody. some people budget, but by having the physicality of cash and, you know, taking out a fixed amount and using that as a way of budgeting . and there's

way of budgeting. and there's also important protections against, you know, abuse or or an infallible state from having that backstop of being able to have cash. i understand that the government understands that, and thatis government understands that, and that is why we have acted . that is why we have acted. >> do you think that banks should be prevented from closing high street stores? it's one thing from having a cash machine there, but actual physical banks , you know, we've seen things like wilko going into administration. you can understand why they're shutting their stores and they can't afford your afford to have them. but your average on the average man and woman on the street think, banks street might think, well, banks have got loads of money. do they have got loads of money. do they have to really the back have got loads of money. do they ha noto really the back have got loads of money. do they ha not having the back have got loads of money. do they ha not having an the back have got loads of money. do they ha not having an actual back have got loads of money. do they ha not having an actual physical; of not having an actual physical bank my high street ? bank on my high street? >> it's important. look at how streets generally are important and the government understand that there are lots of aspects to that , including how we make to that, including how we make our high streets pay. perhaps a lower proportion of taxes and we rebalance the property taxes. that was something that the chancellor did back in the

spnng chancellor did back in the spring statement it's a big, big feature of how we protect our high streets making sure that people have access to the facilities they need. yesterday i visited in brixham , a banking i visited in brixham, a banking hub , a new type of branch, if hub, a new type of branch, if you like , where all the banks you like, where all the banks themselves, they couldn't individually run a viable branch, much as though we might wish they could. we can also understand from our own changing habhs understand from our own changing habits that that may not be the best answer going forward. so there what the government has helped to try and do is bang heads together little bit , heads together a little bit, work industry and say, work with the industry and say, well, if we can't have individual branches, let's have a shared bank hub. and i want to see many more of those across the uk . so, you know, a little the uk. so, you know, a little bit we to remind the banks bit we want to remind the banks of responsibilities of what their responsibilities are. it is a privilege to have a banking licence and there are some societal obligations that go alongside that. but but where that isn't viable rather than put our heads in the sand, we've also got to come up with viable opfions.

also got to come up with viable options . and these banking hubs options. and these banking hubs are one those options. are one of those options. patrick look, andrew, thank you very much time . very much for your time. >> appreciate >> really appreciate it today. andrew economic andrew griffith, our economic secretary treasury and secretary to the treasury and a conservative mp , loads more to conservative mp, loads more to come. between now and 6:00, we will have more on that lucy letby discuss letby verdict. we'll discuss whether we should bring the whether we should bring back the death killers. death penalty for child killers. i'm delving i'm also going to be delving into it all into the psychology of it all and whether or not people should be to attend their be made to attend their sentencing, especially in light of crimes this . and we will of crimes like this. and we will be having a look at the series , be having a look at the series, questions that have be questions that have to be answered how this was answered about how this was allowed so long, allowed to happen for so long, why it was not covered up. but certainly not really looked into with any degree of conviction from people within our nhs. and i think it's reasonable to ask is there anything else like this going on now? but now is your headunes going on now? but now is your headlines tatiana . patrick headlines with tatiana. patrick thank you. >> the latest from the newsroom . former nurse lucy letby has been found guilty of the murder of seven babies. she was also

convicted of the attempted murder of six others between june 2015 and june 2016. the countess of chester hospital's neonatal ward . the government neonatal ward. the government has ordered an independent inquiry . a teenager has been inquiry. a teenager has been convicted of 22 counts of rape against six young women, 19 year old cavan queen met most of his victims on social media. the offences took place over a three year period from 2019, when he was 15 years old and police in northern ireland have revealed they're investigating the loss of an officer's laptop and notebook which fell from a moving yesterday . a man moving vehicle yesterday. a man has also been arrested under the terrorism act in connection with last week's data after last week's data breach after the details of 10,000 police officers and staff were published online by mistake . you published online by mistake. you can get more on all of these stories by visiting our website at gb news.com . direct bullying

at gb news.com. direct bullying sponsors the finance report on gb news for gold and silver investment . at and here's investment. at and here's a quick snapshot of today's markets. the pound will buy you . $1.274o markets. the pound will buy you . $1.2740 and markets. the pound will buy you . $1.274o and ,1.1719. the markets. the pound will buy you . $1.2740 and ,1.1719. the price of gold is £1,484.46 per ounce. and the ftse 100 closed at 7262 points. direct bullion sponsors. >> the financial report on gb investments that matter a brighter outlook with boxt solar >> proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello again. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast . storm betty arrives through the friday and the start the rest of friday and the start of bringing gales of the weekend, bringing gales for rain for many and for some heavy rain for many and a few thunderstorms thrown in as

well. now betty was named by met eireann, irish service eireann, the irish met service because that's where the strongest winds are strongest of the winds are expected friday evening . expected during friday evening. nevertheless, it's a wet and windy for much of the uk windy spell for much of the uk as irish coast seeing as well. irish coast seeing gales and the risk of 70 mile per hour wind gusts for the far southwest england , especially southwest of england, especially around beaches. heavy around exposed beaches. heavy rain sweeping through thunderstorms potentially for eastern england could cause some impacts and that wet weather with us as we start off saturday. not only is it noisy night, a warm night and night, it's a warm night and comfortable for sleeping 70 or 18 celsius as we approach dawn on saturday and saturday begins with that storm bringing strong winds to western and northern coasts as well as further heavy rain for scotland and northern ireland. risk of localised flooding. it brighten up flooding. it does brighten up through the afternoon for england sunny spells england and wales. sunny spells a yes, actually a few showers, yes, but actually plenty of fine weather and feeling warm . we've got this feeling warm. we've got this southwesterly airflow and 26 celsius at next celsius is possible at next anglia but not feeling so pleasant scotland and pleasant for scotland and northern see

northern ireland. we will see further weather times, further wet weather at times, much of that's out of the way for sunday. all in all, a brighter with less of brighter day with less of a brisk wind . it's also going to brisk wind. it's also going to be increasingly warm in the south during the start of next week. temperatures reaching the high 20s in places, staying changeable further north . by a changeable further north. by a brighter outlook, with boxt solar >> proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> can justice ever really be served for somebody who has murdered seven babies and attempted to murder six others? that, by the way , may well get that, by the way, may well get even worse ? there's talk of a even worse? there's talk of a retrial in a few other counts because the jewellery couldn't reach a verdict. there is an ongoing investigation into another hospital where lucy letby was allowed to work letby was was allowed to work before , but she is, of course, before, but she is, of course, now most prolific of now the most prolific killer of babies times. a babies in modern times. but a lot investigation goes into

lot of investigation goes into this. something that i this. and it is something that i think noting, even think is worth noting, that even despite the baby death scandal that in staffordshire, that we've had in staffordshire, despite scandal despite the baby death scandal that we've had in shropshire, despite scandal despite the baby death scandal that cumbria that we've had in cumbria as well , it was that we've had in cumbria as well, it was only that we've had in cumbria as well , it was only fact that well, it was only the fact that police were looking at a spike in baby deaths in that area in cheshire, that they actually found lucy letby were able to identify by lucy letby. joining me now is the former met police officer and author graham watson. graham thank you very much. it is very, very good work by the police in order to get a case and get a conviction , case and get a conviction, especially when dealing with somebody who doesn't admit that guilt is unfortunately dealing with a very vulnerable demographic of people, i.e. ill babies. somebody who's so good at covering their tracks . at covering their tracks. >> yeah, you've highlighted the key facts there. >> i mean, the police found this because of a spike in child this they start the causes they start looking at the causes . is it indeed and as police . is it indeed and as a police officer with medical evidence,

. is it indeed and as a police officeryou're nedical evidence, . is it indeed and as a police officeryou're not cal evidence, . is it indeed and as a police officeryou're not actuallyence, which you're not actually trained in, have rely trained in, so you have to rely on expert opinion, get them to assess it. you're basically looking for the facts, the evidential facts. >> that's support a criminal charge. but to get those facts, you've got go through so much you've got to go through so much medical and record speak medical detail and record speak to the professionals that are involved in the in the care . and involved in the in the care. and then also really difficult and my thoughts go out to all the families involved in this. >> have been >> that must have been absolutely dreadful to lose a baby and baby in those circumstances. and then have on door then have a knock on the door from officer say from a police officer say actually there are suspicious circumstances , but you've then circumstances, but you've then got the families got to deal with the families and ask them really and ask them some really difficult questions about their babies , the care, what happened babies, the care, what happened at the hospitals. >> you're taking people back through literally the emotional rollercoaster and dreadful to answer them. investigate team answer them. so investigate team answer them. so investigate team a really tough task . they're a really tough task. they're going to do some more now, look back into history, her back into her history, her background, at more background, look at more hospital cases and the work by the family liaison teams as well. >> the officers in that respect has been first class and outstanding . outstanding. >> mean, the idea of having to

>> i mean, the idea of having to go around like you said there and on the door, i imagine and knock on the door, i imagine just the police just on that, though, the police is investigation made even more difficult by virtue of the fact that deaths took place, in that these deaths took place, in some years before. some cases years before. obviously, the deceased will have been buried or cremated as well. so it's not like you're deaung well. so it's not like you're dealing with a new body with a lot of forensic evidence there. is it now, as i say, really difficult cases to investigate in respect from respect to the families. >> the victims are going to police terms. >> witnesses suspect , etcetera. >> witnesses suspect, etcetera. nothing from the suspects at all. it seems throughout the interviews, etcetera. so really challenging cases just is served in some respects today. but we wait to see what the sentence is on monday . on monday. >> some information that on monday. >> soout information that on monday. >> soout of information that on monday. >> soout of that nformation that on monday. >> soout of that homeation that on monday. >> soout of that home searchiat on monday. >> soout of that home search of on monday. >> sletbyyf that home search of on monday. >> sletby wasat home search of on monday. >> sletby wasat home sea theyf lucy letby was fascinating. the actual handwritten notes, the diary entries that she's got some of the time she's just talking about how hard she's working. and then she's got this thing that it's me that did this. i did it. i'm evil. talking about how she would

never have a family of her own appearing to essentially write a confession. there as well. that search was of vital importance , search was of vital importance, wasn't it? and when you are searching somebody home like that, when you when you discover something that must be in your heart, must skip a beat. something that must be in your heart, must skip a beat . yeah, heart, must skip a beat. yeah, it does. >> from all cases . >> from all cases. >> from all cases. >> be, you know, serious cases like this one. so to what you like this one. so to what you like routine searches. but when you find key factual evidence and it is a painstaking search, you have to do you have to look through all sorts of things like diaries ledgers, literally, diaries, ledgers, literally, you're talking about pieces of paper be hidden paper that could be hidden somewhere someone's home address. >> you're looking for something that gives you an opening, a piece of evidence that might be crucial in the but again , crucial in the case. but again, the fact that notes are written aren't actual aren't crucial or aren't actual aren't crucial or aren't they significant piece. >> you've got to put it all together, piece it together with the opportunity, the time , maybe the opportunity, the time, maybe even the motive, which again , even the motive, which again, that's the one question it seems

investigation team still, investigation team is still, still to get to. they've still trying to get to. they've got the what the when, got the who, the what the when, the where and the how. >> but it's the why question. that's what most families want to is this happened? that's what most families want to why is this happened? that's what most families want to why is tisheiappened? that's what most families want to why is tishe and aned? that's what most families want to why is tishe and heri? that's what most families want to why is tishe and her earlier >> why did she and her earlier interview why is this individual carried out these horrendous acts. i'm fortunately we probably will never know, will we, unless she ever comes out and says, hey, i've got to ask you, graham, you deal a lot with criminals and the criminal mind and people who end up getting sent to prison . sent to prison. >> how do you think she'll get on presumably on in prison where presumably she the of her she will spend the rest of her life ? life? >> no idea with that. it's again, depends on the individual , how they how they deal with it. you mentioned criminal minds . some some hardened criminals actually see prison as as almost like a retreat for them. there well, used to well versed to they swapped prison locations like you and swap holiday destinations when you talk to those that are regularly in prisons , they talk about going prisons, they talk about going to like their favourite to almost like their favourite place, their favourite prison to

go a completely go to. she's a completely different individual. hasn't different individual. she hasn't experienced that. her background hasn't her that sort of hasn't lent to her that sort of offending . offending history. >> so it depends she >> so it really depends how she actually approaches herself actually approaches this herself and viewed. and how she is viewed. >> i think going >> i don't think she's going to be very well, we be viewed very well, shall we say , within the prison system. say, within the prison system. it be a challenge for the it will be a challenge for the prison to monitor her prison officers to monitor her and keep an on her and the other inmates she's around them. inmates when she's around them. >> you. graham >> graham thank you. graham watson , their police watson, their former police officer, , now an officer, and indeed, now an author writes, i'm patrick christys . this is, of course, christys. this is, of course, gb news. we have got news. still ahead, we have got that bring that debate. should we bring back penalty child back the death penalty for child killers? than killers? it's cheaper than looking after people, isn't it? for the rest of their lives? how looking after people, isn't it? forth does of their lives? how looking after people, isn't it? forth does ocostir lives? how looking after people, isn't it? forth does ocost to .ives? how looking after people, isn't it? forth does ocost to keep how much does it cost to keep somebody in prison in somebody alive in prison in definitely, you know, something like grand year isn't like 40 or 50 grand a year isn't it? do they deserve is it it? do they deserve it? is it the easy way out, though? do the families it? is families actually want it? is that deterrent? loads to get that a deterrent? loads to get stuck into another debate. and that's .

the people's. channel patrick christys here on gb news. >> now we are the people's channel and it's fascinating. if you look at the people's polling . latest of . okay, so the latest round of opinion polling would say that 55% of brits thinks that child killers should face the death penalty . it killers should face the death penalty. it is even higher when it comes to terrorists and it is even higher as well when it comes multiple murderers. comes to multiple murderers. obviously in the case of lucy letby, she is a multiple child

killer now, isn't she? she's britain's worst ever serial killer in modern times, anyway, of children, seven babies deaths. the attempted murder of six others. and it raises the death penalty question. it does. and i'll just be asking whether or not it is time now to actually bring back the death penalty. i'm talking about kevin hurley, former chief police commissioner for surrey, and peter kirkham , a former met peter kirkham, a former met senior investigating officer. both you, you both of you, thank you very, very i understand you very much. i understand you do have different views on have slightly different views on this, kevin i'll this, which is good. kevin i'll start with you. should we bring about the death penalty for child killers ? child killers? >> i think there's always a judgement call in all these cases, and one of them is to make sure we're not driven by emotion . for me, the deciding emotion. for me, the deciding point on whether or not a death penalty should be implemented is really if we can demonstrate that true premeditated action on the part of the offender. there's another argument, of course, here is that societies

are judged on how they treat their prisoners . so there's their prisoners. so there's always a question there . the always a question there. the bottom line on this particular case and the word that everyone seems to have missed, this is classic psychopathic behaviour . classic psychopathic behaviour. no one has yet mentioned that deliberate act , reckless as to deliberate act, reckless as to the law or a complete lack of empathy , complete lack of empathy, complete lack of feeling towards the consequences of it . but i think the key thing of it. but i think the key thing when we assess the death penalty is we should not make a view on it on an emotional moment like this. i personally would favour it for pre—med murders of crown servants such as police prison officers or border force officers. yeah. or murder committed in an act of robbery or indeed, premeditated murder of children. >> okay . all right. peter, where >> okay. all right. peter, where are you on this ? the argument are you on this? the argument against it, of course, would be people who are wrongfully convicted, it ? but i convicted, wouldn't it? but i think it's a cut think if it's a if it's a cut and dry case, why should the

taxpayer pay to these taxpayer pay to keep these people ? people alive? >> there's such thing as a >> there's no such thing as a cut and dried case. there are cases where it certainly looks like there's no chance of a mistake having been made here. >> but unfortunately, history is littered with examples of where time shows that mistakes have in fact been made . fact been made. >> they might be made through malice on the part of investigators . they might be investigators. they might be made through inadvertent mistake. they might be made by honest and truthful witnesses who are just mistaken about identity or something like that. >> and so we know that mistakes are made. >> and for me, that is the practical reason why not. i understand the argument for the death penalty and i've certainly met plenty of people that i wouldn't shed a tear over. >> but but we don't always get it right and we can't take that risk. >> i don't think i can completely understand that. >> kevin, i think you're right about you don't want things just

based you see based on raw emotion. you see someone essentially someone there essentially slaughtering children and you said human or think a said something human or think a bit isn't there about bit in you, isn't there about wanting them wanting to finish them off yourself, for me, there's yourself, but for me, there's the side it, which the other side of it, which is, is deterrent? because it's is it a deterrent? because it's one thing, mediaeval life and justice. does it work as a deterrent , though? kevin i would deterrent, though? kevin i would say the kind of people who commit crimes against, should we say, prison officers, police , say, prison officers, police, border force type people , border force type people, although it might be premeditated , i doubt very much premeditated, i doubt very much that there's a deterrent effect in those particular cases, although historic , there are although historic, there are indications when people carried out armed robberies in the uk, when there was a death penalty , when there was a death penalty, many criminals would say do not. oh it's all right, don't worry. this is why sometimes it's always good to have two guests because i can just immediately bnng because i can just immediately bring peter kirkham into bring peter kirkham back into play. peter thank you very much. yeah, i'll just ask yeah, i'll take i'll just ask you question actually. you the same question actually. peter you is peter do you think it is a deterrent people at . all

deterrent for people at. all i believe we'll bring him in. all right . all right. look, do you right. all right. look, do you know it doesn't actually know what? it doesn't actually really matter, because got really matter, because i've got michelle me. michelle dewberry here with me. who be just teeing up her who will be just teeing up her show. think we might have show. i think we might have peter back. we? very peter kirkham back. do we? very quickly? do. peter, peter kirkham back. do we? very quicklyou do. peter, peter kirkham back. do we? very quicklyou . do. peter, peter kirkham back. do we? very quicklyou . sorry. io. peter, peter kirkham back. do we? very quicklyou . sorry. yes,3ter, peter kirkham back. do we? very quicklyou . sorry. yes, go, peter kirkham back. do we? very quicklyou . sorry. yes, go on. thank you. sorry. yes, go on. you're on, peter, you're on. do not swear. no do you think the death penalty be death penalty will be a deterrent ? deterrent? >> i don't think it would. i mean, in cases like this, you have plainly got mental health issues going on. and that raises another issue . should we put another issue. should we put people to death who are ill effectively or psychological illness ? but no, the there's the illness? but no, the there's the other category of murders which are not falling to our spur of the moment ones where, no, there's not going to be a deterrent impact . things as it were. were. >> were. >> look, thank you very , very >> look, thank you very, very much. it was great to oh we've got both of you back. now, i tell you what. there we go. all right. okay kevin, i'll let you finish. that were finish. the point that you were making it would

finish. the point that you were making of it would finish. the point that you were making of a it would finish. the point that you were making of a deterrent it would finish. the point that you were making of a deterrent tot would finish. the point that you were making of a deterrent to people be much of a deterrent to people who the way that we who are minded the way that we strongly suspect letby has strongly suspect lucy letby has minded . minded. >> i doubt it would do. and i think there's an issue there with with this particular person. she's a psychopath in terms of her behaviour that that arguably is not in fact a mental illness in terms of how it's diagnosed . this is someone who diagnosed. this is someone who just does not care about the consequences to other people or have any empathy or can or cares about the law. it's actually , if about the law. it's actually, if you like, a behavioural disorder as opposed to a mental disorder in terms of deterrent , as opposed to a mental disorder in terms of deterrent, i'm not sure it does . i favour the death sure it does. i favour the death penalty from a point of view of an eye for an eye for certain types of crime. how would you do it ? hang them types of crime. how would you do it? hang them , hanging types of crime. how would you do it ? hang them , hanging them the it? hang them, hanging them the way in which we've always done, which arguably causes death within about 15 seconds from the hangman going into the cell, i

would have no. i personally would have no. i personally would have no qualms for in example, going and executing former pc cousins for the murder of sarah everard . that might be of sarah everard. that might be because he disgraced the police, but that kind of person is not fit to live amongst us, even in prison , there would quite prison, there would quite possibly be a queue there, i think. >> but both of you, look, we are going to draw a line right now. thank very know thank you very much. i know it was that but was a bit disjointed that but a pleasure both on. was a bit disjointed that but a pleaswas both on. was a bit disjointed that but a pleaswas hurleyoth on. was a bit disjointed that but a pleaswas hurley there, . that was kevin hurley there, former police commissioner former chief police commissioner former chief police commissioner for surrey, peter kirkham, for surrey, and peter kirkham, former met senior investigating officer. is officer. michelle dewberry is here for dewbs& co. here with me now for dewbs& co. coming next, you right? >> f or shouting? right? >> or shouting? yeah go >> shouting or shouting? yeah go on. talk to me quietly, though, just case my microphone was hacked. >> your views on. hacked. >> what/iews on. hacked. >> what/iews think? don't >> what do you think? don't interrupt that chat. but when he was when said was saying when you said about a clear cut case in terms of the death penalty, then he said there's no such thing as a clear cut case. i was shouting, yeah, what about like lee rigby then? >> yeah , well, yeah. >> yeah, well, yeah. >> yeah, well, yeah. >> i mean. >> i mean. >> i mean , there's a video of >> i mean, there's a video of it, you know? >> what mean when >> yeah, that's what i mean when you, when you've got a guy

absolutely covered in blood with you, when you've got a guy thuge ely covered in blood with you, when you've got a guy thuge no covered in blood with you, when you've got a guy thuge no knife ed in blood with you, when you've got a guy thuge no knife in in blood with you, when you've got a guy thuge no knife in his)lood with you, when you've got a guy thuge no knife in his hand, with a huge no knife in his hand, having tried to do god knows what to a guy that many people had mean, would had seen, i mean, i would say that's had seen, i mean, i would say tha and dry. but do know ? >> and dry. but do i know? >> and dry. but do i know? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> so what what's on your show? i mean, we've had the vast majority three about i mean, we've had the vast majcwas three about i mean, we've had the vast majcwas thig about i mean, we've had the vast majcwas thig breaking out i mean, we've had the vast majcwas thig breaking news, that was the big breaking news, one biggest stories one of the biggest news stories of in a so we've one of the biggest news stories of with in a so we've one of the biggest news stories of with that| a so we've one of the biggest news stories of with that for so we've one of the biggest news stories of with that for three yo we've one of the biggest news stories of with that for three hours.e run with that for three hours. what was plans? yeah what was your plans? yeah i mean, i i how can mean, i think i mean, how can you up on story? you not pick up on that story? >> absolutely >> because it is absolutely horrific. to my horrific. so i want to get my paneps horrific. so i want to get my panel's views on that, of course. separately to course. and then separately to that, i want to ask whether that, i also want to ask whether or not britain now afford or not britain can now afford tax cuts. yes. you know, we've spoken long and hard about the negatives of britain's economy at the moment, but people would say we're perhaps turning a corner. so is it time now to do tax cuts? who should get them? what would that look like? i also, well want to talk about also, as well want to talk about free speech. we've seen that situation at the edinburgh fringe where you've had gigs cancelled. do we really have free speech? and this whole nofion free speech? and this whole notion that if you believe a man free speech? and this whole ncaon that if you believe a man free speech? and this whole nca man at if you believe a man free speech? and this whole nca man and you believe a man free speech? and this whole nca man and a)u believe a man free speech? and this whole nca man and a womanve a man free speech? and this whole nca man and a woman is a man free speech? and this whole nca man and a woman is a woman, is a man and a woman is a woman,

you really , is that not you know, really, is that not you know, really, is that not you you've identified two you know, you've identified two really interesting about really interesting bits about british really interesting bits about britthere, is think >> there, which is that i think that if you it's now in our society , it's impossible to say society, it's impossible to say without getting massive pushback that some people should get tax cuts and also that , you know cuts and also that, you know gender exist. but michelle are you going to get stuck onto all of that lionesses. >> i can't finish my show without teeing up lionesses without teeing up the lionesses at the weekend. >> exciting stuff, isn't it? >> exciting stuff, isn't it? >> and glad >> exciting stuff. and i'm glad that you finished with that because actually filling because i am actually filling in for tonight . okay, so for mark dolan tonight. okay, so i dolan tonight i will be on mark dolan tonight at 9 to 11 pm. and i am going to be talking about whether or not william should be not prince william should be going over to australia to watch our lionesses in the world cup final. i think he absolutely should. but make sure you stay tuned. dewbs& co coming your way . next looks like things are heating up . heating up. >> boxed boilers proud sponsors

of weather on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> hello again . it's aidan >> hello again. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast. storm betty arrives through the rest of friday and the start of the weekend bringing gales for some heavy rain and a few rain for many and a few thunderstorms thrown in as well. now betty named by met now betty was named by met eireann, the irish service eireann, the irish met service because that's where the strongest winds are strongest of the winds are expected friday evening . expected during friday evening. nevertheless, it's a wet and windy for much of the uk windy spell for much of the uk as irish sea coast seeing as well. irish sea coast seeing gales and the risk of 70 mile per hour wind gusts for the far southwest england , especially southwest of england, especially around as heavy around exposed beaches as heavy rain sweeping through thunderstorms potentially for eastern england could cause some impacts. and that wet weather with us we off with us as we start off saturday. not only is it noisy night, a warm night and night, it's a warm night and comfortable sleeping . 17 or comfortable for sleeping. 17 or 18 celsius as we approach dawn on saturday and saturday begins with that storm bringing strong winds to western and northern coasts as well as further heavy rain for scotland and northern

ireland. risk of localised flooding. it does brighten up through the afternoon for england spells england and wales. sunny spells a showers, but actually a few showers, yes, but actually plenty of fine weather and feeling . we've got this feeling warm. we've got this southwesterly airflow and 26 celsius is possible in east anglia , but not feeling anglia, but not feeling so pleasant and pleasant for scotland and northern ireland. see northern ireland. we will see further weather. at times, further wet weather. at times, much that's out of the way much of that's out of the way for sunday. all in all, a brighter with less of brighter day with less of a brisk wind . it's also going to brisk wind. it's also going to be increasingly warm in the

is to come. why? because she, as today, have been unveiled as the uk's most prolific child serial killer in modern times. seven babies murdered , multiple babies murdered, multiple others. she attempted to murder two. this raises so , so many two. this raises so, so many questions, not least what on earth was going on in that hospital? how on earth was all of this allowed to happen? some people now saying this is why we need things like the death penalty . why is it you tell me. penalty. why is it you tell me. and in other news today, i'm asking , can and in other news today, i'm asking, can britain now and in other news today, i'm asking , can britain now afford asking, can britain now afford to give tax cuts? and if so , to to give tax cuts? and if so, to whom? you tell me . and the whom? you tell me. and the creator of father ted, of course