gb news saturday. >> i'm emily carver. >> i'm emily carver. >> for the next three hours i'll be keeping you company on online and digital radio. so coming up this hour, the most prolific killer of babies in modern times . why wasn't lucy letby stopped sooner? >> and did hospital bosses , as >> and did hospital bosses, as one whistleblower put it, potentially facilitate a mass murderer and suella braverman under pressure to to stand up france over its lack of action on channel crossings, so does the home secretary need to get tougher to stop the boats? >> then donald trump cancels a press conference and skips the first republican debate of the primaries . primaries. >> will he remain the front runner? but first, let's get the news headlines with tamzin . emily >> thanks very much. good afternoon from the newsroom. it's 12:00. the families of it's12:00. the families of babies murdered or harmed by lucy letby say their search for answers continues as

investigations into her case widen. the countess of chester hospital has come under scrutiny over whether more could have been done to stop the serial killer sooner. an independent inquiry will examine the hospital's handling of the case. police will also investigate the care of 4000 babies who passed through the neonatal wards at the two hospitals where she worked yesterday. she was convicted of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others. she'll be sentenced on monday. psychotherapists lucy beresford says her personal ity may have helped her avoid suspicion . helped her avoid suspicion. >> her colleagues found her very warm and approachable and likeable and the paediatrician who tried to raise the alarm about her allegedly at one point thought to himself, oh about her allegedly at one point thought to himself , oh gosh, not thought to himself, oh gosh, not nice lucy, because there was a side to her that was very genial and that's what makes her crimes so doubly shocking that she could have this exterior of normality and pleasantness. but

actually be capable of these crimes . crimes. >> police investigating the murder of sarah sharif in woking are still searching for her family. the ten year old body was found at her home last thursday morning after police received a call from her father. irfan sharif from pakistan. did say she suffered extensive injuries over a sustained period of time . her father, stepmother of time. her father, stepmother and uncle are wanted for questioning. they travelled to islamabad along with five children a day before sarah's death age uk says hundreds of thousands of older people missed out on financial support for their energy bills. the charity claims more than 700,000 households didn't receive help from the energy bills. support scheme alternative fund. it was set up for people with non direct supply arrangements, such as those living in care homes. mobile homes or on boats. but age uk says the fund had completely flopped due to a

complicated application process and a lack of publicity . a and a lack of publicity. a protest over the closure of railway ticket offices will be staged outside downing street later this month. the rmt union says it will stage a mass rally on the 31st of august, which is the last day of the consultation process . it warns the move to process. it warns the move to close up to 1000 offices will put more than 2000 jobs at risk. the planned action comes as crosscountry train workers stage the first of four strikes over working conditions. rmt members will also walk out over the next three saturdays, a state of emergency has been declared in canada's western province of british columbia , where british columbia, where wildfires are threatening homes. thousands of people have been evacuated from the area as fires burn in the hills and mountains above west kelowna . strong winds above west kelowna. strong winds are fanning the flames with the fire service warning the blaze could reach the outskirts of the

city by this weekend . canada is city by this weekend. canada is facing its worst season on record with more than 1000 active fires burning across the country . the manager of the country. the manager of the lionesses says her team is buoyed by the level of support ahead of tomorrow's world cup final. england take on spain playing to win the trophy for the first time. manager sarina wiegman says the team has everything it needs to perform at the highest level. lauren james, who served a two match suspension following her red card against nigeria, could start tomorrow. former football manager harry redknapp says the team needs to keep relaxed about the whole country's willing them to win. >> so i think you've got to keep it relaxed and have a, you know, have a bit of fun around the place as much as you can and really not get them too hyped up.and really not get them too hyped up. and 2/10 about the game just go and play. do what you've go out and play. do what you've done so far to get us to this final. if we do that, we'll win the that's to be the

the game. that's got to be the message , don't know? message really, don't you know? just relax . and it's just just relax. and it's a great opportunity to go out and make history . great opportunity to go out and make history. in >> this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now though it's back to emily and gb new . saturday new. saturday >> thank you very much tamsin. so questions are being asked about whether killer nurse lucy letby could have been stopped soonen 5001191“. >> soonen >> hospital bosses are under fire. >> that's after it emerged they failed to act when doctors raised the alarm on numerous occasions about letby. >> the government's ordered an inquiry into the case after the nurse was found guilty of murdering seven babies and trying to kill six others. she's the uk's most prolific killer of babies in modern times. so i'm joined now by gb news political correspondent cath forster.

catherine thank you very much. >> we know that lucy letby is guilty of murdering seven babies. >> the attempted murder of many more questions have been raised over how this hospital dealt with it or didn't deal with the accusations against this woman. and what has the political reaction been ? reaction been? >> yes. so the government wasted no time at all in announcing that there would be an independent inquiry. they announced that within literally announced that within literally a couple of hours of the verdict coming out. now, it's going to be a non—statutory inquiry, which means it has fewer powers , but it will be faster because helen whately, the health minister, was saying they're acutely aware that these parents have been waiting already 7 to 8 years for answers and justice. these are murders that were 2015, 2016. so they want the inquiry to get on with it as soon as possible . now, we don't soon as possible. now, we don't have the details of who's going to lead it yet, etcetera . but

to lead it yet, etcetera. but it's clear that as well as looking into exactly what happened, there will be a real focus on what hospital bosses knew or didn't know and why action wasn't taken. so sooner to stop her. one son of the father of two children who'd been attacked by her but not killed . i had said that , you killed. i had said that, you know, had higher management aren't held to account more more swiftly would have prevented many deaths and certainly we're now hearing, aren't we have multiple paediatric consultants around seven of them that say they raised warnings repeatedly in late . 2015 and they weren't in late. 2015 and they weren't listened to. she went on to kill two further babies in 2016, and at that point , two further babies in 2016, and at that point, one of two further babies in 2016, and at that point , one of the at that point, one of the consultants says, you need to pull her off the ward. and still

that request was refused for almost another week. so i think huge questions now for the hospital and it will be interesting to see going forward the executives in question are generally no longer there, but some of them are still in very, very senior positions elsewhere in the national health service . in the national health service. >> yes, huge questions for them to answer. and a lot of people would like to see them held to account. i mean, the descriptions that some of these whistleblowers have said, those who paediatricians who were working on the unit at the time who essentially begged the hospital bosses to listen to them, they were so sure that something was going on and they felt like they couldn't that they heard they weren't being heard essentially at all. >> so there are questions for the government. and of course the government. and of course the the whistle blower the nhs about the whistle blower process protection for whistleblowers is the process completely not working as it should? that seems to be the

case undeniably here, that they were essentially told to shut up and leave it. >> they were they were told to apologise to lucy letby because the hospital bosses sided with her basically . she was her basically. she was considered so nice that it seems like they just couldn't believe it possible . one of the very it possible. one of the very senior executives had a meeting with her and her father and was just completely convinced that she had no to case answer. but of course, it doesn't work like that. if somebody seems nice, that. if somebody seems nice, that doesn't mean that they're innocent . but yes, they they innocent. but yes, they they were told to apologise . she was were told to apologise. she was moved eventually to an admin role. still in charge of very sensitive info and working alongside people who were supposed to be looking in to what had gone on. and so these warnings just went unheeded for months and months and months. but in terms of the inquiry , of but in terms of the inquiry, of course, we've been here before, haven't we, because beverley allitt in the early 90s, who

murdered four babies, attacked nine further there was a big inquiry at the time. virginia bottomley was health secretary. there was a lot of talk of you know, lessons needing to be learnt so that it could never happen again . and not only has happen again. and not only has it happened again, but on an even worse scale because lucy letby is now the most prolific child killer in british modern history . history. >> yes, and one more question for the government that has come up in well, in in since february , i think it was dominic raab, the justice secretary, he said that it convicted killers should have to go to the dock for their sentencing. >> they should stand there and face the music again. of course, this has come up again in public debate . where are the government debate. where are the government with this one? >> they are still making those noises . alex chalk, the current

noises. alex chalk, the current justice secretary, is saying similar that they need to change the law to make it. we've had a succession of horrific killers referred refusing to come and publicly sit when their sentences are are red. so the government are saying they want to change the law , but it hasn't to change the law, but it hasn't happened. to change the law, but it hasn't happened . and yet and has happened. and yet and has lawyers have pointed out it isn't as easy as that because if they force somebody to go and sit there, they might shout, they might scream, they might hurl accusations at the families . and how would you make it harder for them not to go? you could say , well, you're going to could say, well, you're going to get a longer sentence in jail. but of course, somebody like lucy letby , you have to assume, lucy letby, you have to assume, is going to get a whole life sentence. so a lot of these people are never going to get out of jail in the first place. so i think it's completely understandable. i think the vast majority of the public are horrified to think that lucy letby will not be sitting there

on monday morning when the sentence is read out. but it's not as simple as it sounds. and yeah , the government are making yeah, the government are making noises about changing the law, but that's been happening for some time. labour have been calling for similar. it has of course see the action. course got to see the action. >> cashman murder of >> thomas cashman murder of olivia corbell and jordan mcsweeney killer of zara , lena. mcsweeney killer of zara, lena. lots of calls. a lot of people feel like it is a final insult to the victims , to the victims to the victims, to the victims families. if the convicted criminal is not there for their sentencing. but thank you very much indeed. catherine force gb news, political correspondent . news, political correspondent. now, joining me now is the former police and crime commissioner for dorset, martin underhill. martin, thank you very much indeed for talking to me this afternoon . you heard me this afternoon. you heard from catherine. there are lots of questions for the hospital bosses to answer . bosses to answer. >> absolutely. and rather like the baby inquiry , i think that the baby inquiry, i think that the baby inquiry, i think that the public anger at this case means that these previous

executives , because very few are executives, because very few are still in post, will be pursued. >> i do wonder why we don't use the offence of misconduct in pubuc the offence of misconduct in public office against senior hospital executives . we use it hospital executives. we use it in the police. we use it in the fire service. we don't use it in any in the nhs. no nowhere near enough. any in the nhs. no nowhere near enough . and actually some of enough. and actually some of these people should be held to account. but of course, as we saw with shipman , by time this saw with shipman, by time this case gets to court and the pubuc case gets to court and the public inquiry takes place, or the non—statutory in this case, all of these people have moved on and the families and the pubuc on and the families and the public want to see someone held to account. but they've all retired. so it is a real quandary for the government and one that i think there's two things should happen. one is there needs to be a new protocol between the nhs and the police because too many times we've seen a 2 or 3 year delay before policing is brought into what is a clinical matter , i.e. shipman a clinical matter, i.e. shipman and the 27 deaths, or let these

case, all of the children dying or being seriously injured . and or being seriously injured. and there's got to be a quicker way through that without the hospital worrying about his own reputation because the other thing that's come out of this is wokeism i mean, unbelievably, wokeism. i mean, unbelievably, this woman is moved after seven different clinical experts have asked for her to be moved and she's reinstated. and receives a written apology because of wokeism in the nhs. written apology because of wokeism in the nhs . we had to wokeism in the nhs. we had to think about her feelings. i mean, it's just madness. there's got to be a better way of running the nhs than this and actually the thing that stands out to me apart from the fact that there isn't a protocol with the police in the to the police in the nhs to identify problems is the identify problems earlier is the fact that all of these decisions makers, as we've seen, they're not clinical, they're directors , they're chief executives who used to work in local authorities. they're not clinical people. and if you look at america, most chief executives of hospitals in america are clinical experts . america are clinical experts. and that's where this went wrong. clinical experts are looking up the ladder, talking

to non—clinical people , saying to non—clinical people, saying we've got a major problem here. this woman has to be removed and then wokeism takes over and it doesn't happen. and that in itself is frustrating. but we've seen, as you've just heard from your other correspondent, other children died and was seriously injured after these clinical experts said we need to do something . yes. and that's not something. yes. and that's not acceptable. not acceptable at all? >> no, not at all. you make a string of very , very good points string of very, very good points there. one of the consultants who blew the whistle on letby tried to get the attention of hospital bosses , as he said that hospital bosses, as he said that they should apologise for in quotes , potentially facilitating quotes, potentially facilitating a mass murderer. what sort of crime could those in management be guilty of? you said something there about her conduct , a crime there about her conduct, a crime related to conduct misconduct . related to conduct misconduct. >> there's a victorian offence of misconduct in public office

which still stands today and has started to be used a lot in the last 20 years, particularly in policing. >> but actually it applies to any person working for the pubuc any person working for the public purse and misconduct in pubuc public purse and misconduct in public office would easily capture a non—clinical chief executive or a non—clinical director of an nhs trust. and until we start prosecuting these people and making them realise that wokeism isn't more important than looking after their clients, looking after their clients, looking after their service users and making sure they're safe. this is going to carry on as we've already heard this morning, this is a repeat of another case that happened seven years ago and lessons were going to be learnt and haven't. and the one people who come out of this really well, in my view, is the police. once they were consulted, they acted had a team acted well. they've had a team for six years bringing a ten month trial with the longest criminal trials in british history . do the police history. i do think the police have of this very well. have come out of this very well. the nhs has got to learn lessons and not good enough to say

and it's not good enough to say we'll non—statutory choir we'll hold a non—statutory choir and learn the future . the and learn for the future. the law needs to be changed. protocols need to be brought in to stop other parents going through this night. >> only police had >> yes, if only the police had been sooner , maybe been consulted sooner, maybe more would have been more deaths would have been prevented. just very quickly, before i let you go, in terms of letby herself, is life in prison enough ? uh, well, it's going to enough? uh, well, it's going to be a whole life tariff. >> i cannot see any other sentence than that. um, rather like whiting who killed sarah payne and shipman. whole life tariff means he will never, ever walk again on the streets of this country. in my view, that is enough. there will be lots of people watching your programme who that. who don't agree with that. you know, are some heinous know, there are some heinous crimes. shipman is another example where actually you could argue this has gone so past the pale that the death sentence should be considered. i don't share that view, but the whole life tariff minimum for me on monday, if it isn't that , i'll monday, if it isn't that, i'll be very, very disappointed .

be very, very disappointed. >> thank you very much indeed. martin underhill, former police and crime commissioner for dorset. thank you very much for your time. now we're going to move on to a different subject thatis move on to a different subject that is causing the government a huge more than 25,000 huge headache. more than 25,000 people have crossed the channel since became prime since rishi sunak became prime minister just last year. that comes amid reports france is stopping fewer migrants crossing compared to the same period last yeah compared to the same period last year. that's despite an extra £480 million in funding from the uk , pledged the home secretary uk, pledged the home secretary is, of course, now under pressure to tell the french it's simply not good enough. what are they doing for all of that money? should suella braverman stand up to france and demand are our money back? joining me now is the immigration lawyer, ivan sampson . ivan, thank you ivan sampson. ivan, thank you very much indeed forjoining me on this . people are tearing on this. people are tearing their hair out. on this. people are tearing their hair out . they're seeing their hair out. they're seeing us give huge sums of money, hundreds of millions of pounds of money to the to french, police that border to help us

intercept boats, to stop the boats from crossing over to doven boats from crossing over to dover. and it doesn't seem to be working . working. >> no, it isn't. and what's extraordinary is who who negotiated that deal? >> i mean , effectively, it >> i mean, effectively, it should have been performance based on the number of people that actually stop and that would have encouraged the french to stop people from coming across the channel. but it wasn't. it was basically a blank cheque saying we trust you to do it, but do we trust the french and we don't? i mean, they've shown time and time again their reluctance to properly patrol their borders, to stop people disembarking from france to the uk. look, we can't control the french territory. we can't. the french territory. we can't. the french have to do it . french have to do it. >> and the only way forward is to do a deal with the eu when make it eu law force the french to do it . to do it. >> it needs a radical plan by rishi sunak . rishi sunak. >> yes, it does. ivan and it's

not particularly helpful when you have a former french ambassador saying that rishi sunak's pledge to stop the boats is totally delusional. >> i don't know if you saw that, but essentially saying that even trying even attempting to stop all the boats crossing the channelis all the boats crossing the channel is deluded . channel is deluded. >> well, look, it can be done if the french pull up their socks and get get on with tackling the smuggling gangs and stopping people from disembarking. it can be done to a level where the smugglers will give up . the smugglers will give up. the point is this, is that we need an agreement with the eu. >> that is the way forward, something akin to the dublin convention and i think the radical plan for rishi sunak is to come out the refugee convention in its entirety and replace it with domestic legislation which reflects and protects our country. >> that's the way forward. and

what it could mean is . what it could mean is. >> so ivan, do you think that suella braverman should stand up to france essentially and say , to france essentially and say, you know what, if you don't get results, we are taking back all of that money that we've sent you and we will do this purely based on results. so if you stop x amount of migrants from crossing the channel yes, we'll we'll give you this much money, but it has to be based on results. otherwise we're just throwing away hard earned taxpayer money and getting absolutely nothing in return . absolutely nothing in return. >> i think what has shown over the last two years is that french do not want a deal. >> they do not want to stop the boats. they've shown it time and time again . their reluctance to time again. their reluctance to property properly patrolled time again. their reluctance to propeborderserly patrolled time again. their reluctance to propeborders .rly patrolled time again. their reluctance to propeborders . no,»atrolled time again. their reluctance to propeborders . no, the lled time again. their reluctance to propeborders . no, the deal has their borders. no, the deal has to be done with the eu itself making it eu law. >> then the french will be bound to do it under eu law or face sanctions from the eu commission thatis sanctions from the eu commission that is going to be the way forward. >> i propose that we come out of

the convention, replace it with our own domestic legislation , our own domestic legislation, which requires a refugee to claim asylum in the first safe country which the refugee convention doesn't. >> it doesn't . you don't have to >> it doesn't. you don't have to claim asylum under current law in the first safe country. and then we take our fair share . then we take our fair share. >> the eu, the objection to the eu is that we're not taking our fair share . we're 17th eu is that we're not taking our fair share .we're17th on eu is that we're not taking our fair share . we're 17th on the fair share. we're 17th on the list. germany is taking about 125,000 a year. >> france is taking over 100. we're getting about 50. so what the eu's beef with the uk is you're complaining about asylum seekers, but you're taking half the numbers that we are and so we've got to take our fair share. so controlling our borders may mean that we may have to take more than 50,000 a yeah >> but the point is we must control our borders. we can't have borders being determined by the weather, which is what's happening at the moment. >> exactly . and it means that >> exactly. and it means that our resources don't necessarily go to those with the most genuine claims, but rather those

who have the thousands of euros it costs to pay a people trafficker to get you in a dinghy and across the channel, which seems utterly unfair. and i think most brits see that just looking at the home office figures that have come out recently in terms of the britain's national crime agency , apparently they are actually doing a betterjob than in the past terms disrupt meeting past in terms of disrupt meeting the groups themselves , the the crime groups themselves, the organised crime groups that are facilitating these crossings. they've 237 disruptions they've made 237 disruptions compared with 63 last year. these aren't massive numbers, but it does show an upward trajectory . so in terms of the trajectory. so in terms of the crime agency, we are attempting to tackle these gangs, but yet they continue to operate with what seems to be complete freedom . freedom. >> i don't know about you, emily. do you know a single smuggler of human human trafficking smuggler who's been convicted in british courts in the last 12 months? >> do you know one? no

>> do you know one? no >> so for them to turn around and say we're doing a better job, it's just not good enough . job, it's just not good enough. no, we've got to stop it by putting the resources working with the eu. and i say the eu again , we think the french we again, we think the french we cannot work with them. >> they're not on our side . >> they're not on our side. they're actually quite happy for people to come from france to the uk. then they don't have to deal with the problem. it becomes our problem . becomes our problem. >> so we've got to do a deal with the eu we've got with the eu itself. we've got a horse trade with them and if they don't do a deal with us and let's just say we come out the convention, we send helicopter convention, we send a helicopter back to france with the refugees , take them back , and then the , take them back, and then the eu will have to come to the table. >> it needs radical decisions , >> it needs radical decisions, radical plans. >> we can't do that currently because we're committed on the refugee convention. >> we do that. but if we >> we can't do that. but if we had domestic legislation , we could. >> well, there you go . thank you >> well, there you go. thank you very ivan samson , very much indeed. ivan samson, immigration lawyer. react to, well, demands on suella

braverman, the home secretary, to stand up to france and demand our money back if they don't essentially do what we're paying them to do. it is quite incredible quite how much money is going over there. let me know what you think at home and also let me know about what we were talking about previously in terms letby case, how terms of the letby case, how should nhs bosses who ignored the allegations, who ignored the accusations , who ignored the accusations, who ignored the warnings of whistleblowers within the hospital? how should they be held accountable? you're watching a listening to saturday with me, emily carver. still ahead, there's been a record drop in top a—level grades. are we witnessing the true cost of lockdown on young people? but first, let's take a look at the weather with greg. the temperatures rising , boxt solar, temperatures rising, boxt solar, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello there . i'm greg >> hello there. i'm greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast . so over the next 24 hours or so, we will see further showers

largely focussed toward the northwest. the winds are easing as storm betty generally eases and moves away from the uk, allowing high pressure to build in from the south. so the best of the sunshine over the next few days be towards the few days will be towards the southeast of the uk into this evening time. still fairly breezy across parts of northern ireland, northwest scotland with frequent showers here. overnight, spells overnight, clear spells developing across parts of the midlands, eastern england . and midlands, eastern england. and despite will still be a despite this, it will still be a warm night to come. still breezy around some western coast temperatures, generally 15 or 16 celsius in towns and cities , celsius in towns and cities, evenin celsius in towns and cities, even in the countryside holding up in double so sunday up in double figures. so sunday morning , a bright start. there morning, a bright start. there will scattering of showers will be a scattering of showers from go across western from the word go across western parts as we move parts of the uk as we move through the morning. the best of the across parts the through the morning. the best of the midlands|cross parts the through the morning. the best of the midlands into; parts the through the morning. the best of the midlands into east:s the through the morning. the best of the midlands into east anglia,e east midlands into east anglia, south—east england into the afternoon. we will see. we will see some scattered heavy showers develop , but lots of places will develop, but lots of places will stay . still breezy across stay dry. still breezy across the north—west temperatures the far north—west temperatures high low 20s, around 25

high teens to low 20s, around 25 or 26, perhaps towards the south—east of england into monday. the similar start to the weekend, really, we'll see showers across the west. best of the sunshine across central and south eastern parts and through the day, temperatures will lift into the low 20s. it stays fine and dry tuesday and wednesday for many of us. >> the temperatures rising , boxt >> the temperatures rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> thank you very much, greg. so still to come up on the show, donald trump's legal woes continue to mount. but could the former president be showing signs cowardice recently? signs of cowardice recently? we'll find out that in more to come. i'm emily carver and you're watching and listening to gb news . gb news, britain's news. channel earlier on gb news radio , earlier on gb news radio,

joining us right now is former nhs trust chairman roy lilly. >> hello there again. roy, good to see you. what are your. >> good morning to you both. good morning. yeah i mean, what are your thoughts on this? >> i mean, what would you like to get a grip on here? >> well, look, i can go through what i think has happened and how it's happened. >> i mean, the overarching role of senior managers as they see it is to protect the reputation of the organisation . the last of the organisation. the last thing they want is public grief. like this because they get the regulators crawling all over them to see qc turn up the regional apparatchiks turn up. so they'll want to kind of keep the lid on accusations . now what the lid on accusations. now what happens is a phenomenon in management called cognitive bias takes over . management called cognitive bias takes over. so what has happened here is and during the trial , here is and during the trial, nurse letby was was referred to as nice . leesa she was popular

christys on gb news. i'm gb news radio . radio. >> hello . good afternoon from >> hello. good afternoon from the gb newsroom . it's 1232. >> hello. good afternoon from the gb newsroom . it's1232. i'm the gb newsroom. it's1232. i'm tamsin roberts with the headlines. the families of babies murdered or harmed by lucy letby say they search for answers continues as investigate into her case. widen police are looking into the care of 4000 babies who passed through the neonatal wards at the two hospitals where she worked at

the countess of chester hospital is under scrutiny over whether more could have been done to stop that sooner. yesterday, she was convicted of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others. she'll be sentenced on monday . huge says sentenced on monday. huge says more than 700,000 households missed out on financial help for their energy bills as a support scheme was set up for people with non direct supply arrangements, such as those living in care homes, mobile homes or on boats. the charity claims the fund completely flopped due to a complicated application process and a lack of publicity . a protest over the of publicity. a protest over the closure of railway ticket offices will be staged outside downing street later this month . the rmt union says it will stage a mass rally on the 31st of august, which is the last day of august, which is the last day of the consultation process . it of the consultation process. it warns the move to close up to 1000 offices will put more than 2000 jobs at risk. the planned

action comes as crosscountry train workers staged the first of four strikes over working conditions as the manager of the lionesses says her team is buoyed by the level of support ahead of tomorrow's world cup final . ahead of tomorrow's world cup final. england take on spain playing to win the trophy for the first time, manager sarina wiegman says the team has everything it needs to perform at the highest level. lauren james, who served a two match suspension following her red card against nigeria , could card against nigeria, could start tomorrow . well you can get start tomorrow. well you can get more on all of those stories by visiting our website, gb news. now, though, it's back to . emily now, though, it's back to. emily >> welcome back to gb news saturday. with me, emily carver on your tv, online and digital radio. we're going to go all on your tv, online and digital radiway we're going to go all on your tv, online and digital radiway overe're going to go all on your tv, online and digital radiway over toe going to go all on your tv, online and digital radiway over to america.» go all on your tv, online and digital radiway over to america. now. ll the way over to america. now. donald has reportedly donald trump has reportedly cancelled conference cancelled a press conference where he claimed he'd prove he

didn't attempt to overturn the 2020 election in georgia. the former president is currently facing dozens of criminal charges and will go on trial several times in the next 18 months, while also campaigning for the presidency. now he's reportedly going to skip the first republican debate of the primaries. joining me now is chair of republicans overseas, greg swenson . greg, thank you greg swenson. greg, thank you very much indeed coming into very much indeed for coming into the it's been the studio. so it's been reported that donald trump has chosen to be interviewed by the former fox news host tucker carlson over taking part in this republican primary debate. why might he do that? >> yeah, well, tactically , it's >> yeah, well, tactically, it's a good move. you know, first of all, there's a little scar tissue for both of those men with with fox. right. you know, obviously with tucker being fired and then and then they've sort of fallen out of love with trump in the last year or so. and so but but tactically, it's a good move. he's he's he's got such a lead in the primary polling right now that it's very little upside and possibly

nothing but downside. if he if he's on the debate stage as the leader or as the frontrunner . leader or as the frontrunner. and then just getting criticised from the from the entire pack. and secondly , this will make ron and secondly, this will make ron desantis the frontrunner on the stage, even though he's a distant second to trump. so they'll be all over him and treat him hostile, you know, in some ways as the frontrunner. so it's probably a smart move tactically from the trump campaign. >> so presumably trump does not believe that he needs even fox news on side because you would have thought that having fox news on side would be of utmost importance when it comes to becoming the republican candidate. >> yeah, it's true. for the most part are generally speaking, it's true. but you know, it's changed. the dynamic has changed in the last year. murdoch clearly soured on on trump. but but also he gets so much attention and especially with these indictment , it's he these indictment, it's he basically has the mainstream media, even though they detest

him and really hate him. they they are giving him all the airtime he could possibly want. so he doesn't really need fox as much as he did that is very true. >> where trump goes, what trump says, what trump wears will always make international news. now he's complaining to fox two about the pictures they use of him. so apparently fox news has been using a big orange photo of him . that's what trump has said. him. that's what trump has said. and one of him with his chin sort of down in a in an unattractive position, not looking his best, essentially. so he's demanded they stop using it. i imagine fox won't heed that request. >> it's funny. i mean, he's his ego is not small. >> it's funny. i mean, he's his ego is not small . and so you're ego is not small. and so you're not you shouldn't be surprised. nobody's surprised with his sort of vanity. but i could understand that, though we all hate those bad pictures and studios are not kind sometimes, but the president is unfiltered. so he just can't help himself. and it's not surprising that he that he made those comments.

>> and, of course, there are mounting indictments. many allegations, criminal allegations, criminal allegations against donald trump. yet it doesn't seem to be having the impact that many thought it might on his potential to be the next republican candidate. >> exactly right, emily. it's counterintuitive , but the first counterintuitive, but the first indictment, especially had a huge bump for him, not only in the polling, but in the fundraising. and it's not quite linear . it's fundraising. and it's not quite linear. it's been a fundraising. and it's not quite linear . it's been a lower the linear. it's been a lower the marginal return for each indictment is not significant. but he got a massive bump from alvin bragg and then a little less smaller bump with the second indictment, third, fourth, maybe only flat to a point on the fourth one. so it's probably capped in terms of what it does for elevating his campaign. but, you know , it's campaign. but, you know, it's clearly helping him. there's no doubt about it. >> and ron desantis is as well. one more question just on that . one more question just on that. there's a huge distrust, particularly among republican voters of the justice system in america. and well, concerns that

it is by no means in no way a political no. >> it's been weaponized , >> it's been weaponized, clearly. i mean, going after trump, i mean , two of these trump, i mean, two of these these days , the fulton county these days, the fulton county and then in new york, they both ran on get trump . that was their ran on get trump. that was their campaign slogan. and they would brag to their during their campaigning, brag to their during their campaigning , they would brag campaigning, they would brag that i'll be the best at getting trump or i've got trump before . trump or i've got trump before. so it's really not a good look . so it's really not a good look. and course, the federal and then, of course, the federal indictments , know, the indictments, you know, the entire department of justice, the fbi , and entire department of justice, the fbi, and in in entire department of justice, the fbi , and in in addition to the fbi, and in in addition to the fbi, and in in addition to the irs, have really been weaponized. so they're going after trump. and of course, waited until he declared his candidacy . so it's election candidacy. so it's election interference by the department of justice. i have to agree with trump on that, because he calls them out on it all the time. and then you have at the same time a basically protection racket. basically a protection racket. both media the doj have both the media and the doj have been protecting the biden family cartel. and you rarely hear

about it here. >> it's a it's a drip feed of allegations and presumably there is a hope that some of them, if not all, will stick and will bnng not all, will stick and will bring him down wrongly or rightly in terms of in terms of where we currently stand. right. it is looking very much like donald trump will be the next republican candidate for now with the numbers, can you do you have the numbers to hand? >> it's really early, but and again, he was only 12 points over desantis before the alvin bragg indictment. now he's up 40. so every indictment has helped. right now you have trump at 54, desantis at 15. vivek ramaswamy , who's gotten some ramaswamy, who's gotten some attention. he's getting a lot of press, but he's still only at seven. and then mike pence at five. seven. and then mike pence at five.the seven. and then mike pence at five. the rest of them are all under five. so it's still a two man, possibly three man race. i don't think pence has a chance. the five points are coming from evangelical and i don't think that grows very much. and the trump voters really dislike pence. so it's really trump,

desantis and vivek and you'll nofice desantis and vivek and you'll notice all three of them are sort of anti—establishment, new republicans. pence is not really anti establishment, but he's very conservative. so you have 3—3 candidate plus plus pence who who with the exception of trump, vivek and desantis, are filling movement conservatives . filling movement conservatives. they're tea party type republicans . and pence, to a republicans. and pence, to a certain degree, the country club republican, the establishment republican. it's over. they're all polling under five. and i don't see any way that they they they should probably just drop out. >> it's very interesting. >> it's very interesting. >> it's very interesting. >> it's a three man race. >> it's a three man race. >> it's very interesting . and of >> it's very interesting. and of course, was there was course, there was there was huge amounts at least it amounts of momentum, at least it seemed for ron desantis. that seemed so for ron desantis. that seems well petering out a seems to be well petering out a little. thank very much. little. thank you very much. >> temporary. >> temporary. we >> temporary. we shall >> temporary. we shall see >> temporary. we shall see what happens. actually happens. i haven't actually asked who you support. asked you who you support. >> desantis. >> desantis. >> desantis. >> sounds a lot to. so >> this sounds like a lot to. so but i would look for desantis to bounce here once he starts

getting some attention . the getting some attention. the debates wednesday. i'll be debates are wednesday. i'll be there milwaukee. you'll be there in milwaukee. you'll be there. i will. there in milwaukee. you'll be the well,rill. there in milwaukee. you'll be the well, enjoy. i hope it's very >> well, enjoy. i hope it's very thoroughly entertaining and informative like this show. thank very indeed, greg thank you very much indeed, greg swenson, republicans swenson, chair of republicans over seas, giving the latest over seas, giving us the latest on that republican candidate campaign. so lots of you have been getting in touch on the topics we've been discussing today on the letby case and whether the nhs should be held accountable. nhs bosses at that hospital, ted says the horrible saga shows the rot that exists in the whole of the nhs management too many managers all afraid to make decisions that could affect their index linked pensions as well. a lot of people would agree with you. clearly they ignored these allegations , ignored the allegations, ignored the warnings that children were dying at the hands of lucy letby . but there you go. jim says, i would like to say that britain surely needs to think seriously of reintroducing the death penalty . we need a deterrent now penalty. we need a deterrent now to stop these serial killers. how dare she that to those how dare she do that to those

little babies ? and david has little babies? and david has written it. and he says one problem explains why she got away so it was away with it for so long. it was her happy personality her pleasant, happy personality . hollywood always portrays the pretty men and girls as heroines and the lesser attractive actors as criminals and baddies. as the criminals and baddies. yes, something that has strikes me is just how ordinary she was. she was described as one of the geeky girls at school , but geeky girls at school, but totally kind hearted by those who knew her in her school days and in her university days and at the hospital itself. it is how did this happen? how does someone become a serial killer? please do keep your views coming in. watching and in. you're watching and listening saturday listening to gb news saturday with carver. coming with me, emily carver. coming up, results are in and up, a—level results are in and they thousands of students they saw thousands of students miss top marks as the miss out on top marks as the government tried to reverse grade inflation the grade inflation from the pandemic. it all fair on pandemic. is it all fair on students and will gcses be the same that are more coming your way? i'm emily carver. this is gb news, britain's news .

britain's news . britain's news. channel >> welcome back to gb news. saturday with me, emily carver on your tv, online and digital radio. so this week we saw anxious teenagers received their a—level results . it was a—level results. it was a disappointment for thousands with a record drop in top marks as the government tried to reverse the effects of pandemic grade inflation. so are we now witnessing the true cost of lockdown and these decisions that were made on young people

is it fair on students? this year? joining me now is editor in chief of the good schools guide, lord ralph lucas. thank you indeed , rafe. very you very much indeed, rafe. very difficult year for students because the government's right to end the grade inflation that we saw during the pandemic. but that doesn't make it easier for those who have received grades that well, not as good as they'd hoped and may not get them into their university of choice . their university of choice. >> no, we're back to the situation that we always had, that exams are not exact. people will underperform on the day for all sorts of reasons, and particularly those kids who had a hard time in the pandemic may well have underperformed substantially. so we need to be saying, what do we do to help those kids back to where they should be? industry is very good at that. industry really likes kids who are kids and puts less weight on on exact exam results. but universities find that quite

difficult to do . difficult to do. >> rafe do you think too many students, too many sixth formers are getting the top grades ? it are getting the top grades? it seems to me that not a quarter of pupils should be getting a's and a's stars . what do you what and a's stars. what do you what do you think of that? surely they should be a little bit tougher when it to tougher when it comes to marking. how you marking. otherwise, how do you differentiate it? >> i rather like the swiss system, which is divided into percentages. so you can be you've got 100 different grades and there are the difficulty of the cut off between one grade and the other disappears because it's all a continuum. and people are much more sophisticated at the same . well, really, there's the same. well, really, there's no difference between 79 and 78. it's not the difference between an a and a b and what can we expect when it comes to gcse results . results. >> i believe they're due next week . i we had >> i believe they're due next week. i we had the same grade inflation. i believe . so inflation. i believe. so presumably there will now be a reckoning in the same way as the a—level results ? yes, i expect

a—level results? yes, i expect that. a—level results? yes, i expect that . we're getting back to a that. we're getting back to a real assessment of how children have done. >> i think that's really important . >> i think that's really important. but we do need to reform the whole business of how we look at maths and english qualifications as gcses are not fit for deciding whether a person speaks good english, understands english, knows the maths they need for the world. we need different and better qualifications for that. their academic qualifications about proceeding to a—level, they're not the sort of information that employers need . employers need. >> i'd love to dig in, dig into that a little further with you. what kind of exams we should be having types of having, what types of assessments. sadly , that's assessments. but sadly, that's all got time thank all we've got time for. thank you indeed for your you very much indeed for your time. lucas, who is time. lord rafe lucas, who is the in chief of the good the editor in chief of the good schools guide. so he knows what he's about. from he's talking about. but from grade inflation life grade inflation to real life inflation, in a shocking twist, inflation, in a shocking twist, inflation in the uk did drop to 6.8% in july. that was down from

7.9% in june. that's the second month in a row the rate of inflation has dropped and it's now at a 15 month low. so is rishi sunak proving the haters wrong? well, with me to discuss this is co—founder of investment service. regionally, justin urquhart stewart. thank you very much indeed . justin, is he much indeed. justin, is he proving the haters wrong then? >> well, it's unfortunate at the moment he's promised something he can't actually deliver because actually the inflation isn't caused domestic isn't being caused by domestic expenditure woeful expenditure or a woeful consumers going out, spending too much . too much. >> actually coming from >> it's actually coming from overseas . the supply overseas. all the supply chains, all areas . so promising all those areas. so promising something he has control something he has no control oveh something he has no control over. that's not a very clever thing do , but there is quite thing to do, but there is quite a bit of good news with inflation through. it inflation coming through. it has another . but what another effect. but what it also means is now means is the chancellor is now going get more income coming going to get more income coming in course that's in because of course that's happened. prices have been rising rise. rising because prices rise. therefore people will be spending, spending more . that's spending, spending more. that's more in, say more so more vat coming in, say more so with wage rises running at around about 8% something with wage rises running at arouthatbout 8% something with wage rises running at arouthat fort 8% something with wage rises running at arouthat for then something with wage rises running at arouthat for the private1ething with wage rises running at arouthat for the private sector| like that for the private sector , that means income tax,

, that means more income tax, more national coming in. now very roughly , those figures very roughly, those figures could mean that the government, chancellor could have 40 chancellor hunt could have 40 billion extra before for next yeah billion extra before for next year. that's quite a little package to put in your in your budget. >> well, that sounds rather nice, but i can't get too excited because last time i checked, our debt was standing at about a trillion. yep >> and the amount we pay on our debt. >> we used to be about 50 billion a year, which is round about what the defence budget was. >> it's now going to be 100 billion a year and so maybe even higher . but billion a year and so maybe even higher. but of course inflation does have effect on it. it does have one effect on it. it actually devalues over time. >> that's true. >> that's true. >> yeah. but nonetheless, yes, we're woefully indebted. >> we have to is get the >> what we have to do is get the economy moving. >> actually, he does have >> so actually, if he does have this it's not 20 this 40 billion, it's not 20 billion doesn't really matter. use that. not just cuts use that. not just tax cuts because tax a relatively because tax cuts a relatively inefficient but tax incentives for investment into businesses . for investment into businesses. and so that's enterprise investment schemes, all those sorts things, encouraging sorts of things, encouraging pension funds put more money pension funds to put more money into businesses into domestic businesses here, given to help

given direct incentives to help them do that, that would actually start getting the economy moving and gives it the one word the tory one word that the tory government try and win government needs to try and win an election, which is confidence. me some confidence. give me some confidence. give me some confidence . confidence. >> lastly, justin, how >> and just lastly, justin, how concerned that concerned should we be that pubuc concerned should we be that public sector pay increases are now outdoing wages in the private sector, so wages are increasing faster in the public sector than in the private sector? >> yeah, and it's interesting to see that that's the power of the negotiations. >> we've seen some of the unions being able to do so in order to try and get these things try and get get these things through. it's not sustainable. and what you need able and so what you need to be able to actually try and hold to do is actually try and hold back that. should back on that. what this should be is actually negotiating back on that. what this should be than:tually negotiating back on that. what this should be than one ly negotiating back on that. what this should be than one year. jotiating back on that. what this should be than one year. so ating back on that. what this should be than one year. so ifing back on that. what this should be than one year. so if you on more than one year. so if you say the senior doctors or junior doctors are actually falling behind, don't make it a one year change, make it change over behind, don't make it a one year changthatake it change over behind, don't make it a one year changthat wayt change over behind, don't make it a one year changthat way you :hange over behind, don't make it a one year changthat way you spread over behind, don't make it a one year changthat way you spread the time. that way you spread the pain give what they pain, but give them what they want some of what they want want or some of what they want over time, not immediately. >> wonder wages >> yes, i do wonder if wages aren't particularly aren't going up particularly high private sector , then high in the private sector, then how we afford big public

how can we afford big public sector pay increases? thank you very much for your time. very much indeed for your time. justin stewart there, justin urquhart stewart there, co—founder of regionally, an economics . let me know economics expert. let me know what you think. does that sound like justin like good news from justin there? watching and there? you're watching and listening news saturday listening to gb news saturday with carver. more with me, emily carver. lots more coming today's show. but coming up on today's show. but first, look at the first, let's take a look at the weather with greg. >> looks like things are heating up. boxed boilers proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> hello there. i'm greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast . over the next 24 hours or so, we will see further showers largely focussed towards the northwest. the winds are easing as storm betty generally eases and moves away from the uk, allowing high pressure to build in from the south. so the best of the sunshine over the next few days will be towards the south—east of the uk this south—east of the uk into this evening time . still fairly evening time. still fairly breezy parts of northern breezy across parts of northern ireland, north—west scotland with showers here with frequent showers here overnight. spells overnight. clear spells developing across parts of the

midlands , eastern england. midlands, eastern england. and despite this, it will still be a warm night to come. still breezy around some western coast temperatures, generally 15 or 16 celsius in towns and cities , celsius in towns and cities, evenin celsius in towns and cities, even in the countryside holding up in double figures. so sunday morning, a bright start. there will a scattering of showers will be a scattering of showers from across western from the word go across western parts the uk as we move parts of the uk as we move through the morning. the best of parts of the uk as we move throsunshine norning. the best of parts of the uk as we move thro sunshine norningparts best of parts of the uk as we move throsunshine norningparts bethef the sunshine across parts of the east midlands into east anglia, south england into the south east england into the afternoon. we will see. we will see scattered heavy showers see some scattered heavy showers developing, but lots of places will dry. still breezy will stay dry. still breezy across far north—west. across the far north—west. temperatures high teens to low 20s, around 25 or 26, perhaps towards the south—east of england into monday. the similar start to the weekend, really, we'll see showers across the west. best of the sunshine across central and southeastern parts and through the day, temperatures will lift into the low 20s. it stays fine and dry tuesday and wednesday for many of us. >> looks like things are heating

up. boxed boilers, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> thank you very much, greg. so we've got lots more coming up on today's show. the families in the lucy letby case vow to search for answers. hospital bosses have come under fire for ignonng bosses have come under fire for ignoring warnings about the killer nurse . we've got more killer nurse. we've got more details on that shortly

or. or or. or or. or or. or or. 0r— or. or or. or or. or or. or or. or or .

or or. where welcome to saturday. >> i'm emily carver for the next two hours, i will be keeping you company on tv, online and digital radio. so coming up this houh digital radio. so coming up this hour, the most prolific killer of babies in modern times. why wasn't killer nurse lucy letby stopped sooner? and did hospital bosses , as one whistleblower put bosses, as one whistleblower put it , potentially facilitate it, potentially facilitate a mass murderer? edinburgh fringe festival goes woke cancelling a comedian's shows over his views on transgender issues is cancel culture killing comedy. and despite the government's push for a clean, green motoring future , a majority of councils future, a majority of councils don't actually have any plans for on street electrical vehicle charging . is for on street electrical vehicle charging. is this the end of for on street electrical vehicle charging . is this the end of the charging. is this the end of the road for evs ? but first, let's road for evs? but first, let's get the news headlines with . tamsin >> emily, thanks very much. good

afternoon from the gb newsroom. it's 1:01. the afternoon from the gb newsroom. it's1:01. the families of babies murdered or harmed by lucy letby say they search for answers, continues as investigate locations into her case. widen the countess of chester hospital has come under scrutiny over whether more could have been done to stop the serial killer sooner. an independent inquiry will examine the hospital's handling of the case. police will also investigate the care of 4000 babies who passed through the neonatal wards at the two hospitals where she worked yesterday, letby was convicted of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others. she'll be sentenced on monday. psychotherapist lucy beresford says her personality may have helped her avoid suspicion . suspicion. >> her colleagues found her very warm and approachable and likeable, and the paediatrician who tried to raise the alarm about her allegedly at one point thought to himself, about her allegedly at one point thought to himself , oh, gosh, thought to himself, oh, gosh, not nice. lucy because there was a side to her that was very

genial and that's what makes her crimes so doubly shocking. that she could have this exterior of normality and pleasant this, but actually be capable of these crimes . crimes. >> police investigating the murder of sarah sharif in woking are still searching for her family . the ten year old's body family. the ten year old's body was found at her home last thursday morning after police received a call from her father, irfan sharif from pakistan. detectives say she suffered extensive injuries over a sustained period of time. her father, stepmother and uncle are wanted for questioning. they travelled to islamabad along with five children a day before sarah's death was discovered . sarah's death was discovered. criminal gangs have been condemned by maritime experts for pushing small boats out into the channel during storm betty. just a week after six migrants drowned attempting the crossing, coastguard and border force vessels have been called to deal with reports of migrant boats in

the sea during treacherous wind and conditions. the sea during treacherous wind and conditions . at least five and conditions. at least five small boats have made it to uk waters today, where they were picked up by the dungeness lifeboat and border force vessel. ranger gb news understands at least 100 people were on three of the boats . age were on three of the boats. age uk says hundreds of thousands of older people missed out on financial support for their energy bills. the charity claims more than 700,000 households didn't receive help from the energy bills support scheme alternative fund. it was set up for people with non direct supply arrangements such as those living in care homes. mobile homes or on boats . but mobile homes or on boats. but age uk says the fund had completely flopped due to a complicated application process and a lack of publicity . and a lack of publicity. a protest over the closure of railway ticket offices will be staged outside downing street later this month. the rmt union says it will stage a mass rally

on the 31st of august, which is the last day of the consultation process . it warns the move to process. it warns the move to close up to 1000 offices will put more than 2000 jobs at risk . the planned action comes as cross country train workers staged the first of four strikes over working conditions. rmt members will also walk out over the next three saturdays as state of emergency has been declared in canada's western province of british columbia, where wildfires are threatening homes . thousands of people have homes. thousands of people have been evacuated from the area as fires burn in the hills and mountains above west kelowna. strong winds are fanning the flames with the fire service warning the blaze could reach the outskirts of the city. by this weekend. canada is facing its worst season on record , with its worst season on record, with more than 1000 active fires burning across the country . the burning across the country. the manager of the lioness says her team is buoyed by the level of support ahead of tomorrow's world cup final in england. take

on spain playing to win the trophy for the first time. manager sarina wiegman says the team has everything it needs to perform at the highest level. lauren james, who served a two match suspension following her red card against nigeria, could start tomorrow. former football manager harry redknapp says the team needs to keep relaxed . team needs to keep relaxed. >> the whole country's willing them to win. so i think you've got to keep it relaxed and have, you know, have a bit of fun around the place as much as you can and really not get them too hyped too tense about the hyped up and too tense about the game play, do game. just go out and play, do what you've done so far to get us to this final. if we do that , we'll the game. that's got , we'll win the game. that's got to message, really, to be the message, really, don't you just just relax. and you know, just just relax. and it's a great opportunity to go out and make history. >> this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio, and on your smart speaker by saying, play gb news. now,

though, it's back to emily and gb news . saturday gb news. saturday >> thank you tamzin so questions are being asked about whether nurse lucy letby could have been stopped sooner. hospital bosses are under fire after it emerged they failed to act when doctors raised the alarm about letby numerous times , as the numerous times, as the government has ordered an inquiry into the case after the former nurse was found guilty of murdering seven babies and trying kill six others, she trying to kill six others, she is the uk's most prolific killer of babies in modern times . of babies in modern times. joining me to discuss this is gb news political correspondent catherine forster. catherine, thank you . the distraught thank you. the distraught parents, well, we know that lucy letby is guilty of the murder of these babies and the attempted murder of many others. the parents of the victims are now asking many questions and the spotlight is on the hospital itself. and why so many warnings

were essentially ignored, covered up even, and whistleblower were essentially told to be quiet. >> yes, it really is. it's quite astonishing the details that have been emerging since we had the verdict yesterday . today, in the verdict yesterday. today, in terms of multiple warnings by consultant paediatricians going from the murders that she's been convicted of date from june 2015 to june 2016. now these doctors were raising warnings in the autumn of 2015. they were not listened to. two further babies went on to subsequently die. lucy letby, we now know, attempted to kill three more as well, while these warnings were being ignored . now, the father being ignored. now, the father of two children that she tried and failed to kill has said that higher management need to be

held to account and that if they had listened , they could have had listened, they could have prevented more deaths. so i think the inquiry , the think the inquiry, the non—statutory inquiry that the government announced yesterday , government announced yesterday, non—statutory means it will be quicker though it will have fewer powers than a statutory increase . jury will will all be increase. jury will will all be trying to find the answers obviously, and particularly to, i suspect, a focus on who knew what at the hospital, what action was or was not taken when, what lessons can be learned. and you would hope what changes will be made to mean that this can't happen again because we have been here before. we had the nurse, beverley allitt, in the early 90s. she murdered for children, attacked nine more. there was a big inquiry then they said lessons would be learned so such things couldn't happen again . things couldn't happen again. but here we are . but here we are. >> yes, here we are. and it's

quite incredible actually that nhs management, quite incredible actually that nhs management , the management nhs management, the management within the hospital would have ignored warnings from consultant paediatricians. these are people who are experts in their field . who are experts in their field. these are people who well , the these are people who well, the pubuc these are people who well, the public trust their patients , public trust their patients, trust nhs bosses should trust. yet they actually asked them, a number of them to apologise to drop it and apologise to letby when they hadn't even investigated the claims properly i >> exactly. and it now turns out when the first three deaths are occur , which were between occur, which were between january 8th and the 22nd, so literally in the space of a fortnight three babies died . fortnight three babies died. worth saying that in the seven years since lucy letby left that neonatal world ward, there's only been one in baby has died since then. so at that time there was an agreement that there was an agreement that there would be some independent investigation that never

happened. and this went on and on.and happened. and this went on and on. and the consultants who tried to flag this and did flag this were effectively punished , this were effectively punished, but they were ultimately made to write a letter of apology to lucy letby for upsetting her. and they were to told drop it. they suggested that they referred the hospital, referred itself to the police. they were told no when the police finally were brought in, it only took the police ten minutes to realise that this was something huge that did require a criminal investigation. so you know, huge, huge failings by people earning a lot of money who are now in other roles or who have moved abroad , but no moved abroad, but no consequences for them as yet. you do wonder whether consequences may have come further down the line . further down the line. >> yes, one of the consultant paediatrician who has been criticising publicly hospital bosses and how they how they

behaved , how they failed to take behaved, how they failed to take action, he said there are people out there still earning six figure sums of taxpayers money or retired with their gold plated pensions who need to stand up in public to explain why they did not want to listen and right thing. well and do the right thing. well they may have to do more than explain. and know that an explain. and we do know that an investigation is taking investigation is still is taking place. the cheshire police have confirmed they are investigating the entire period letby was working at the hospital. so i imagine that will uncover more of this and more of the failures of this and more of the failures of the bosses themselves. but it doesit of the bosses themselves. but it does it does make people concerned about how the nhs functions , how whistleblowers functions, how whistleblowers are dealt or not dealt are dealt with or not dealt with, and how this type of thing can happen. as you say, it is not the first time that someone in the health care field has abused position in this abused their position in this way. very indeed, way. thank you very much indeed, catherine political catherine force. our political correspondent at gb news. correspondent here at gb news. so joining me now is the former police sergeant, harry tanguy. thank you very much indeed for joining me , harry. you're just joining me, harry. you're just listening what catherine had

listening to what catherine had to say there about the response. so question is about how so many question is about how this was allowed to happen within the nhs and why nhs bosses did not take these claims. these concerns more seriously when they were flagged. time and time again . flagged. time and time again. >> yes, indeed it is quite horrendous, hasn't it? and it's sort of gripped the nation about how alarming this actually has been. >> babies now who would be 7 or 8 years old, they would be enjoying going to school and developing their lives and giving all that joy to their families . families. >> so they're not statistics. >> so they're not statistics. >> and it's so important we remember that. >> and of course, just because babies collapsed and fortunately they were safe and some of those have got some problems. >> so it's not just the question of writing those off as they're fine as well. so yeah, we have a huge problem here. >> i personally think it's every institution has one.

>> when you're dealing with hundreds of thousands of people , you are going to get your wayne cousins is in the police, you're going to get your bs as in here and fortunately there are few and far between . but are few and far between. but that's why it's all so important that's why it's all so important that we have these safeguards here. and you need unfortunate . here. and you need unfortunate. i'm finding it in these institutions i've known in 30 years policing some cracking leadership, brilliant leadership i >> -- >> but it also realised that because of the grievance procedure i'm wearing, i've seen good sergeants chastised about the way they've dealt with stuff and they're the ones in the dock, not at the officer who needed to be taken a grip of . needed to be taken a grip of. >> and i think it's career management rather than leadership that is far too common now. and i think there's this thing called moral cowardice and moral coufgqeoushess. >> courageousness. >> it's managers desperately trying to reduce the negative effect against their unit and

their department, which is moral cowards , rather than actually cowards, rather than actually sorting the problem out . i will sorting the problem out. i will throw it in there because i was speaking to a male teacher of a primary school and he said, harry, i wonder if this would have been the same if this individual had a man. it's individual had been a man. it's a controversial one, but our managers more worried about accusations of bullying, which is more likely to be headed towards a female being a victim of bullying . not all the time, of bullying. not all the time, but have we got to really just let all our guards down and start being honest with each other ? and that's really other? and that's really bringing leadership back. >> that's a really interesting point you make. the difference between management and leadership and also whether the fact that she was a woman , nhs fact that she was a woman, nhs bosses were more likely to view her as a potential victim of bullying. they clearly protected her for a long time. they made the whistleblowers the consultant paediatricians who were telling them something is not right here and we think it's

letby . and they didn't . they letby. and they didn't. they didn't listen. they wanted to cover this up. by the looks of things. so it is really quite extraordinary . extraordinary. >> maybe because this is such an unusual occurrence , these unusual occurrence, these managers thought, well, it can't possibly be happening. just put it to a mathematician, 25 out of 25 occasions of deaths . and call 25 occasions of deaths. and call them, if you like , 25, 100% of them, if you like, 25, 100% of those were with lucy letby. there the next largest figure was six. and there were quite a few, about 4 or 5, six, 25. so it's those obvious clues that must say, look, we owe it to not hide it under the carpet, but we think i think perhaps it was these people thinking what can't possibly the be the case? and is it easier to get rid of the accusations then easier to sort the problem? the problem probably isn't right. anyway, that's well, we've seen issue we've seen just how many people

from her childhood have been staggered by the allegations. >> and now the fact that she's been found guilty of these crimes. you know, she was a geeky girl at school, kind hearted. no one thought she'd hurt a fly. she always wanted to be a nurse. but it just shows how we know so very little about some people who walk our streets and some people who work in health care, which is where we need to trust nurses. need need to trust nurses. we need to trust doctors . we need to trust our doctors. we need to trust our doctors. we need to trust nhs. bosses will trust the nhs. bosses will listen to accusations like this and will listen to concerns and do something about this . in do something about this. in terms of the investigation that is now taking place, cheshire police have confirmed they're investigating the entire period she was working at this hospital. what should they be looking out in? what should they be looking in terms of the be looking at in terms of the nhs bosses themselves . nhs bosses themselves. >> it's a good question because there's some culpability there and they're going to be taking having a lot of, shall i say, meetings with the cps and that

side of things to really build a case, build the evidence, because policing investigations , quite simple really. you collect the facts, you don't have to make decisions and presume and you just collect as many facts as you can. and it goes to other people, such as the cps, to then decide whether it's there's a sufficient evidence to proceed to court. and when it's in court, it's up to jury to decide. so i've to a jury to decide. so i've always said in policing, my job is easy, is to collect the facts . and so their job is to make . and so theirjob is to make sure they that . and it seems sure they do that. and it seems like they're extremely highly motivated. and in fact, i think it was ten minutes into being having a discussion with the head consultant . dr. brewer head consultant. dr. brewer isn't it, that they thought, blimey , there's a case, there's blimey, there's a case, there's a job here? without a doubt. ten minutes. >> and just very quickly, harry, is a life sentence enough for this type of crime ? this type of crime? >> i'm always a big as far as you get a lot of people saying, oh, it's mental health, mental

health. so insulting with for people with mental to health be accused that, well, you're potentially going to murder babies . this potentially going to murder babies. this absolutely logically, clearly and without emotion . and then i think it's emotion. and then i think it's really it's for the for the jury and judge to decide what the sentence is. i'm keeping out of that. but they do seem to be rather lenient. don't they? >> enough. thank you >> yes, fair enough. thank you very indeed. thank very much indeed. harry, thank you former police you for your time. former police sergeant giving us his view on what unfolded . so but now what has unfolded. so but now let's move on to completely let's move on to a completely different cancel culture. different topic. cancel culture. father ted creator graham linehan has had not one but two of his shows cancelled at the edinburgh fringe festival. that's views on that's because of his views on transgender issues . he says he transgender issues. he says he says he turned to comedy after his gender critical view saw him struggling to find any writing work. but venues are work. but now venues are cancelling shows as they cancelling his shows as they don't with their views. don't align with their views. joining comedian and joining me now is comedian and news leo kearse, and news presenter leo kearse, and we also have co—founder of novara media, aaron bastani . leo novara media, aaron bastani. leo is this proof that cancel culture does exist? it's not a

right wing myth . right wing myth. >> yeah, of course it exists . it >> yeah, of course it exists. it doesn't just exist. >> existed twice in one week to the same person, one venue cancel, then the next. >> and you cancelled and i mean, the concern here is that there's a big backlash , a big outrage a big backlash, a big outrage over the cancelling and then the venueis over the cancelling and then the venue is possibly going to be subject to legal challenges because under the equality act, you know, gender critical beliefs are protected. you're allowed to think that, you know, if you're if you're a uncles, you know, got a vagina, he's he's not he's your aunt and but what's going to happen is these venues are just going to push the cancellation further up the chain. so they're going to they're going cancel people they're going to cancel people before even been booked. before they've even been booked. and this and that's why i'm to me this yeah and that's why i'm to me this year, mature promoter couldn't and that's why i'm to me this year,enough promoter couldn't and that's why i'm to me this year,enough theatres r couldn't and that's why i'm to me this year,enough theatres to ouldn't and that's why i'm to me this year,enough theatres to slotn't and that's why i'm to me this year,enough theatres to slot my find enough theatres to slot my show into because they said, no, this guy's this guy's problematic. to problematic. so we're going to see complete stultifying of see a complete stultifying of comedy and it's going to become incredibly dull and worthy, even

even now . yeah. even worse than it is now. yeah. >> i mean, arun , some people say >> i mean, arun, some people say and you hear this quite a lot, oh, this venue has every right to decide who performs there . to decide who performs there. are you relaxed about this ? are you relaxed about this? >> well, i mean, that's partially true . partially true. >> and i think it's important to say that there are some things that shouldn't be platformed in, you , in somewhere like the you know, in somewhere like the comedy club, somebody for instance, who is advocating paedophilia . paedophilia. >> think most sensible people >> i think most sensible people would probably would say, yeah, that probably shouldn't is shouldn't be something which is openly advocated. >> thresholds . the >> so there are thresholds. the question is wait, hold on, hold on. >> what can we do? let me finish. our advocate here, if you haven't finished, might agree, obviously the question is, has that threshold been met here? >> i think clearly this is in no way equivocal to paedophilia, but i think the idea that people can say anything like can say anything they like anywhere, push back anywhere, i would push back gently against that. >> there's an interesting parallel between this and parallel here between this and the de—banking thing with farage. >> so for me, the big issue with farage necessarily that farage wasn't necessarily that natwest give natwest wouldn't give him a business although business account, although that's bad. >> with

that's bad. >> i disagree with it. it was the that i think 8 or the fact that i think 8 or 9 other banks also wouldn't provide services and provide those same services and as leo said, the problem isn't necessarily 1 or places in the necessarily 1 or 2 places in the abstract . abstract. >> yes, it is their right to say who they wish and don't wish to give to. give a platform to. >> but if that percolates through to a systemic norm where a professional can earn a living anywhere, then that's a categorically different kind of thing. and definitely thing. and it's definitely something we should vigilant something we should be vigilant about and is not really healthy in a in a democratic, free society. >> okay, leo, you were shaking your head jumping in there. your head and jumping in there. what were you going say ? what were you going to say? >> i ended up >> well, actually, i ended up agreeing yeah agreeing with them, so but yeah , i mean, i think it's a fallacious it's a fallacious point to say that there are views that shouldn't be platformed in comedy clubs or whatever, who gets to whatever, because who gets to decide? we've already got decide? and we've already got laws against, against hate speech, against incitement to violence, against incitement to crimes paedophilia . so, crimes such as paedophilia. so, you somebody saying that you know, somebody saying that kind wouldn't, wouldn't you know, somebody saying that kinallowed, wouldn't, wouldn't you know, somebody saying that kinallowed, not»uldn't, wouldn't you know, somebody saying that kin allowed, not that 't, wouldn't you know, somebody saying that kin allowed, not that anybody n't be allowed, not that anybody would the would see it. and that's the thing. performed in thing. comedy is performed in front a jury. we've got the

front of a jury. we've got the audience there. people have bought and see, bought a ticket to come and see, and members of the and they're members of the pubuc and they're members of the public and they've got every right decide for themselves right to decide for themselves what going spend that what they're going to spend that money of having it money on instead of having it having decide for having gatekeepers decide for them dictate what they're them and dictate what they're allowed to see. >> is what i find difficult >> this is what i find difficult because i wouldn't like to go to a comedy show where there were racist, anti—semitic , racist, anti—semitic, paedophilic content . of course, paedophilic content. of course, i wouldn't . but i find it hard i wouldn't. but i find it hard to know who should be the arbiter when it comes to these things. as leo says , who draws things. as leo says, who draws the line? who decides what we are able to view? who decides what? we are able to see at a comedy venue? it is pretty tncky. tricky. >> it is tricky. and i think you're right to say, look, there are lots of comedians who i don't like or don't find funny or sort of disagreeable or just outright vulgar or yeah, saying horrible things. >> i just don't go and watch it. it's a very simple thing. nobody's forcing you to go and watch or listen to anybody else.

i think at the same time, look obviously certain venues, they have the right to, you know, to allow certain people to perform or perform . that might a or not perform. that might be a business decision. >> a political >> it might be a political decision. a personal decision. >> they might say, i work with this they this person. in the past, they were in the backside. were real pain in the backside. so i can understand you so i can understand why you reserve right? reserve that, right? >> say, there should >> but like i say, there should be very high threshold to be a very high threshold to disqualify because of be a very high threshold to disquolitical because of be a very high threshold to disquolitical views. because of their political views. >> very, very the >> should be very, very the problem . problem. >> though . sorry to >> the problem, though. sorry to interrupt the problem, though, leo, is that there isn't a high threshold because we live in a world where a few accusations and complaints on social media ignite a twitter mob and venues , businesses, people, etcetera , , businesses, people, etcetera, etcetera are so scared of their own reputation being destroyed that they just want to wash their hands of whoever it is. and it doesn't matter who, you know, loses out as a result. so with this case, with graham linehan, i imagine the second venue that cancelled was just thought, oh, we can't be bothered with this. we don't

want our reputation besmirched. let's just get rid of him so there's no one standing up to cancel. culture, really, is there? because everyone worries about reputation ? about their own reputation? >> yeah, absolutely . and also, i >> yeah, absolutely. and also, i mean, the people doing all the cancellation, they insist that there are somehow marginalised voices. i wish i was so marginalised that i could just cancel whoever i want and force everybody to believe what i believe is creating a real monoculture in comedy and the fringe. the whole ethos of the fringe. the whole ethos of the fringe is it's supposed to be a audiences and acts can take risks. and you can see crazy stuff that you wouldn't see anywhere else now. you wouldn't see anything that you wouldn't see anything that you wouldn't see in an advert oven chips see in an advert for oven chips . there's the left . you know, there's the left have become the establishment. certainly in the arts at least . certainly in the arts at least. >> but then the right also have , you know, said they're going to boycott brands for various reasons. the dylan mulvaney fiasco. the right are doing fiasco. so the right are doing it to or at least small conservatives thank you very much. sadly that's all we've got time for. aaron bastani there

from media and leo kurz, from novara media and leo kurz, comedian news presenter , comedian and news presenter, debating cancel culture . does it debating cancel culture. does it exist? how pernicious is it? you're watching and listening to saturday with me, emily carver. but time for a look at the weather with greg now . weather with greg now. >> looks like things are heating up . boxed boilers, proud up. boxed boilers, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello there . i'm greg >> hello there. i'm greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast . over the next 24 hours or so, we will see further showers largely focussed towards the northwest. the winds are easing as storm betty generally eases and moves away from the uk, allowing high pressure to build in from the south. so the best of the sunshine over the next few days will be towards the southeast of the uk into this evening time. still fairly breezy across northern breezy across parts of northern ireland, scotland ireland, north—west scotland with frequent showers here overnight , clear spells overnight, clear spells developing across parts of the midlands, eastern england and despite this, it will still be a warm night to come. still breezy

around some western coast temperatures 15 or 16 temperatures generally 15 or 16 celsius in towns and cities , celsius in towns and cities, evenin celsius in towns and cities, even in the countryside, holding up in double figures. so sunday morning, a bright start. there will a scattering of showers will be a scattering of showers from word across western from the word go across western parts the uk as we move parts of the uk as we move through the morning. the best of the of the the sunshine across parts of the east midlands east anglia, east midlands into east anglia, south england into the south east england into the afternoon. we will see. we will see scattered heavy showers see some scattered heavy showers developing, lots of places developing, but lots of places will dry. still breezy will stay dry. still breezy across far north—west. across the far north—west. temperatures high teens to low 20s, around 25 or 26, perhaps towards the south—east of england into monday. the similar start to the weekend really , start to the weekend really, we'll see showers across the west. best of the sunshine across central and southeastern parts and through the day, temperatures will lift into the low 20s. it stays fine and dry tuesday and wednesday for many of us. >> looks like things are heating up. boxed boilers, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news.

sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> thank you, greg. so lots more coming up on today's show. gb news helps save cash after handing our don't kill cash petition to downing street . why petition to downing street. why is cash so important? we'll be speaking whose speaking to people whose livelihoods on it. all of livelihoods depend on it. all of that and more to come. i'm emily carver you are watching and carver and you are watching and listening britain's listening to gb news, britain's news .

britain's news. channel

>> good afternoon. this is gb news. i'm tamsin roberts. here are the headlines at 131. the families of babies murdered or harmed by lucy letby say their search for answers continues as investigate options into her case widen . police are looking case widen. police are looking into the care of 4000 babies who passed through the neonatal wards at the two hospitals where she worked. the countess of chester hospital is under scrutiny over whether more could have been done to stop letby sooneh have been done to stop letby sooner. yesterday, she was convicted of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others. she'll be sentenced on monday . of six others. she'll be sentenced on monday. criminal gangs have been condemned by maritime experts for pushing small boats out into the channel dunng small boats out into the channel during stormy betty, coastguard and border force vessels have been called to deal with reports of migrant boats in the sea in treacherous conditions at least five were intercepted in uk

waters this morning. gb news understands around 100 people were on, three of them. it comes just a week after six migrants drowned attempting the crossing age uk says more than 700,000 households missed out on financial help for their energy bills, a support scheme was set up for people with non direct supply arrangements, such as those living in care homes. mobile homes or on boats. the charity claims the fund completely flopped due to a complicated application process and a lack of publicity . the and a lack of publicity. the manager of the lionesses says her team is buoyed by the level of support ahead of tomorrow's world cup final . england take on world cup final. england take on spain playing to win the trophy for the first time, manager sanna for the first time, manager sarina wiegman says the team has everything it needs to perform at the highest level . lauren at the highest level. lauren james, who served a two match suspension following her red card against nigeria , could also card against nigeria, could also start tomorrow . well you can get

start tomorrow. well you can get more on all of those stories by visiting our website, gb news. now, though, it's back to . emily now, though, it's back to. emily >> welcome back to gb news saturday with me, emily carver on your tv online and digital radio. now, a lot of you have been getting in on all the been getting in touch on all the topics discussing topics we've been discussing really today. lesley had to say about the migrant crossings and suella braverman she get suella braverman should she get tougher french tougher on the french we're giving much money to the giving so much money to the french stop boats in french to stop the boats in theory, it doesn't seem to theory, but it doesn't seem to be they're be happening. in fact, they're stopping they were stopping fewer than they were last says the only way last year, she says the only way to this to say to to stop this is to say to france, you honour your france, until you honour your deal these deal by stopping these crossings, honour crossings, we will not honour our deal with french fishermen and revoke fishing licences and revoke all fishing licences until france treats us fairly . until france treats us fairly. yes, we are. well, we don't need another war over fishing. but i take your point, jules says these migrants should be put in a centre. no a secure detention centre. no exit. they are illegal, should be deported, processed . be deported, not processed. validity. broken the

validity. they have broken the law and mark has written in. he says, why? when people compare numbers of immigrants that we take in comparison france and take in comparison to france and germany , does ever raise germany, does nobody ever raise the is not a fair the point? this is not a fair comparison. france, for instance, considerably larger instance, is considerably larger than the uk and has a smaller population . we're full. yes. population. we're full. yes. ivan sampson, the immigration lawyer, earlier was saying that we new deal with the we need a new deal with the european so that it is european union so that it is fairer and the boats fairer and so that the boats stop . jackie fairer and so that the boats stop .jackie says fairer and so that the boats stop . jackie says it's about stop. jackie says it's about time brought up that time someone brought up that france not doing the job. france are not doing the job. they're being paid for. i think we for each we should find them. for each migrant reaches shore migrant that reaches our shore illegally, knock it off the millions we're them. yes millions we're paying them. yes we've pledged £480 million to the french over the next couple of years. and yet the boats keep crossing and there are fewer interceptions. so go figure . interceptions. so go figure. what should suella braverman do? keep your views coming now . keep your views coming in now. now moving on. can busking survive in a cashless society? for many in the entertainment industry, such as ed sheeran , industry, such as ed sheeran, rod stewart, street performances are the first step in their career, but it's an industry that relies heavily on cash. so

will we see this tradition completely disappear if people stop money in their stop carrying money in their pockets? london reporter pockets? our london reporter lisa all of the lisa hartle has all of the details street performers have details. street performers have entertained crowds in london's covent garden since the 1660s, but could the demise of people carrying cash see this tradition fade from the streets ? fade from the streets? >> pete colucci stage name, heavy metal. pete has been a street performer for 20 years, drawing crowds with his act . oh drawing crowds with his act. oh a bit contortion juggling knives, do some tricks with a bullwhip, and i finish with a stunt i like to call a sandwich of death, which is a bed of nails, which i lie on sandwiched between two sets, and then a volunteer from the audience stands on top . stands on top. >> 30 stone is my record . so >> 30 stone is my record. so what do street performers bring to an area just for bringing area to life? attracting tourism and building links with a community as well as an accessible way into the performing arts? >> pete says most people in his audience still carry cash .

audience still carry cash. >> like, personally, i resisted getting a card reader for a very, long time . in the very, very long time. in the end, i caved because kind of robbing really. but robbing myself really. but i think performers covent think most performers at covent garden similar that most garden find similar that most people carry cash at the people still carry cash at the moment . well, if society was to moment. well, if society was to go completely cashless, it would be devastating for our art form. and because it's just the card readers, too cumbersome , it just readers, too cumbersome, it just doesn't lend itself to a spontaneous, spontaneous street street performance at the end. it's like not like people can just come up, drop something in the hat and off there's a fiddling with the machine, there's the internet signal. whether it works, it's just far too cumbersome and it's not practical . practical. >> so the public if they >> so i asked the public if they would pay street performer would pay a street performer using bank cards or cash only. >> i would only tip with cash. i wouldn't use a card. no dispersion on them, but it just wouldn't use a card. >> i just don't really know when it's be cloned, where it's going to be cloned, where it's going to be cloned, where it's cloned, if it's going to be cloned, if that's, you and then we that's, you know, and then we don't come to london very often.

i so to be able i don't. so it's nice to be able to feel that you can what to feel that you can trust what you've you and keep it you've got on you and keep it safe. i would i would do safe. really i would i would do cashifi safe. really i would i would do cash if i had cash, but i just never carry cash. >> would with both. >> i would tip with both. i would it's so easy to tip would say it's so easy to tip with your phone now because you have and phones have have apple pay and phones have cards, have contactless payments . so you do both just as . so you could do both just as easily getting of easily as getting money out of your pocket . your pocket. >> the company >> link is the company responsible for connecting the atm network in the uk. they also run a financial inclusion programme ensuring every high street has access to cash in terms of most people's use of cash. >> yes, it's dropping, but we found that our research showed that 70% of people use cash in the last two weeks. >> so although it's dropping is not disappearing completely, it's important it's also really important that if the systems fail and sometimes you need to go somewhere where they got connection the systems down, connection all the systems down, then when cash comes in. then that's when cash comes in. and is as a and so cash is there as a fallback. is fallback. if there is a contingency of systems contingency of digital systems fail. used less , but fail. so cash is used less, but still very important . still very, very important. >> so for the time being, as long as people access to

long as people have access to cash people become more cash or until people become more comfortable with card readers , comfortable with card readers, the of covent garden the streets of covent garden will continue to be brought to life performers. hartle life by performers. lisa hartle gb news london. >> thank you , lisa. yes, the >> thank you, lisa. yes, the amount of times i walk past a busker and wish i had a pound in my pocket to throw them because they are terrible good at least in some of the london tube stations and out and about. but these readers, i do feel these card readers, i do feel a bit anxious to tap my card on someone's reader. you never someone's card reader. you never know they might put, you know if they might put, you know, £500 take that out of know, £500 and take that out of your account. know, your bank account. but you know, technology pace . technology is moving a pace. you're watching listening to you're watching and listening to gb saturday me, gb news saturday with me, emily carville. more carville. we've got lots more coming will the lionesses coming up. will the lionesses bnng coming up. will the lionesses bring and will be bring it home and will we be able celebrate pint at able to celebrate with a pint at the will prince william the pub? and will prince william should prince william turn up at the i think he probably the event? i think he probably should. will be getting into the world spirit. you're world cup spirit. you're watching gb watching and listening to gb news, britain's news .

evening. gb news the people's. channel >> welcome back to gb news saturday with me, emily carver on your tv, online and digital radio. now despite the government's green push, more than 70% of councils don't actually have plans to install electrical vehicle charging points. the government aims to have 300,000 of these points running by the end of 2030, but with councils only intending to install around 14,000 this year,

critics are warning this is well behind the rate required to hit the target. so joining me now is james taylor, who is the managing director of vauxhall motors, actually submitted motors, which actually submitted a freedom of information request to hundreds of councils to gather these figures charging gather these figures on charging points. very much for points. thank you very much for joining were shocked by joining me. were you shocked by how few councils actually have plans to install these electrical vehicle charging points while the government is saying everyone should shift in this way ? this way? >> yeah, i mean, we found that as you say, 70% currently don't have a strategy published strategy for residential charging and that's really important to address because currently 80% of charging of electric vehicles happens at home because it's the convenient and most cost effective way of charging your vehicle . charging your vehicle. >> and 40% of uk house olds don't have a driveway. and it's really important that these people aren't left behind and they're able to choose an electric vehicle the same way electric vehicle in the same way as their own as someone who has got their own off parking. as someone who has got their own off so parking. as someone who has got their own off so that's'king.we've launched >> so that's why we've launched electric scope . electric street scope. >> and that's two things. >> and that's two things. >> firstly , it's a website where

>> firstly, it's a website where anyone can go in and register their interest for on street charging. >> and secondly , an enablement >> and secondly, an enablement fund work with some of our fund to work with some of our chargepoint partners to chargepoint provider partners to help educate and enable local councils to actually get these strategies in place. >> yeah, because the government can't really have a ban on new sales of petrol and diesel cars scheduled for 2030 and then not have the infrastructure ready at the local level for people to actually charge their electric vehicles. it doesn't quite make sense, does it? but there's also the issue of electricity supply . some experts are saying that we need to treble the amount of electricity we have if we're to going move everyone to electric vehicles over the next few years. what do you think to that ? >> well, 7- >> well, i 7 >> well, i guess there's two points for that in terms of the charging point. >> there's enough electricity . >> there's enough electricity. >> there's enough electricity. >> i think the national grid have confirmed there is in fact, electric vehicles often get charged at night where that's one lowest demands on the one of the lowest demands on the grid. actually, good grid. so actually, it's a good way our energy

way of balancing out our energy required points. and then in terms then the vehicles, terms of then the vehicles, i mean, currently there's around about just over a million electric vehicles on the road. >> are the fully electric or plug >> are the fully electric or plug electric . plug in electric. >> important that >> so it's really important that the you say, the infrastructure you say, grows at the same rate as the number of vehicles on the road. and this residential and clearly this residential charging is absolutely key charging is an absolutely key point that. so all people can point of that. so all people can choose electric vehicle as a choose an electric vehicle as a viable option for them. and obviously that's why we've launched streets .co.uk launched electric streets .co.uk so i just encourage anyone, if you an interest in you have got an interest in having vehicle to having an electric vehicle to register need, because register your need, because currently there's national currently there's no national database type database for this type of information . by this information. and by using this along councils , we can then along with councils, we can then make the right make sure the right infrastructure goes into the right place. >> infrastructure is >> the infrastructure is expensive, i think a lot expensive, though. i think a lot of like it if it of people would like it if it was the private sector investing in these charging points rather than taxpayers money being spent on it. if electric vehicles are the future and companies car companies are making lots of money out of selling these vehicles to people, surely they can put the money in for the

infrastructure to allow them to run ? run? >> well, i think the private sector, obviously, i think we're on the main routes around the country. >> clearly, there's a lot of demand. so that creates a need. and market to degree will and the market to a degree will then fix that issue. i think the challenge is, as identified , challenge is, as we identified, as charging, challenge is, as we identified, as most charging, challenge is, as we identified, as most of charging, challenge is, as we identified, as most of itcharging, challenge is, as we identified, as most of it happens today, where most of it happens today, obviously very convenient for people. also with some of our chargepoint providers, some very low tariffs available low overnight tariffs available as and some of the as well and some of the installations are very simple. as well and some of the insin lations are very simple. as well and some of the insin terms; are very simple. as well and some of the insin terms of'e very simple. as well and some of the insin terms of converting ole. as well and some of the insin terms of converting aa. as well and some of the insin terms of converting a lamp so in terms of converting a lamp post, a 30 minute an post, it's a 30 minute to an hourjob. you're not hourjob. so you're not necessarily looking a big necessarily looking at a big amount investment to actually amount of investment to actually build in build this infrastructure in these areas. these residential areas. >> how happy are people with >> and how happy are people with their vehicles ? their electric vehicles? because, you know , you do see because, you know, you do see quite a lot of people coming in, coming out who are in the press and just talking to people who've invested in these electric vehicles , which often electric vehicles, which often are more expensive or more expensive replacement from their petrol or diesel car. and then they find that they have range anxiety. so they're not sure if it's going to get them from a to

b, they worry about the resale value . they about value. they worry about the battery , how long it's going to battery, how long it's going to last. battery, how long it's going to last . it's not all plain last. it's not all plain sailing, it, james? sailing, is it, james? >> well, the good thing about electric vehicles is that the research shows the vast majority of people who've chosen electric vehicle wouldn't go back to a petrol or diesel for all the benefits. we know the zero tailpipe obviously tailpipe emissions obviously much quieter, much smoother , much quieter, much smoother, faster acceleration, etcetera. so there's lots of benefits. and in terms of the costs, i think in terms of the costs, i think in terms of electric vehicles and this is where as an industry we have to educate the public is that we have to look at the cost on this total of ownership on this total cost of ownership basis. lifetime of the basis. so the lifetime of the vehicle, you're right, basis. so the lifetime of the vehi(are you're right, basis. so the lifetime of the vehi(are more you're right, basis. so the lifetime of the vehi(are more expensive ight, basis. so the lifetime of the vehi(are more expensive upfront. they are more expensive upfront. but we're very low charging costs, particularly if you have access to overnight tariffs lower maintenance costs because there's , lower there's less moving parts, lower vehicle excise duty . so road tax vehicle excise duty. so road tax exemptions for congestion charge areas that total cost of ownership can very similar to ownership can be very similar to a diesel . so electric a petrol or diesel. so electric cars a viable a viable cars are a viable a viable opfion cars are a viable a viable option most people . option for most people. >> well, there you go . thank you

>> well, there you go. thank you very much indeed. james taylor , very much indeed. james taylor, managing director at vauxhall motors. you for your time motors. thank you for your time . now, at have been . now, you at home have been getting touch on cancel getting in touch on cancel culture. we had culture. that debate we had between bastani and leo between anna and bastani and leo kearse . mel has a question for kearse. mel has a question for me . you posed the question of me. you posed the question of who arbitrate between what is acceptable and what is not easy. the criminal law decides if it's legal. you should not be able to cancel it. if it's illegal, the law will cancel. well, yes, because gender critical views, which is what graham linehan espouse , those are protected espouse, those are protected under the equality act. last time i looked. so there you go, tony says it isn't cancel culture, it's actual consumer power . that is the difference. power. that is the difference. the silent majority having their say. not a few activists on twitter . tony's referring there twitter. tony's referring there to what i said about dylan mulvaney. how maybe conservatives using cancel conservatives were using cancel culture to for bud light to stop bud light. but yes, it is. it is a little bit different. you're right. that is consumer power. rather than trying destroy rather than trying to destroy the altogether, although

the brand altogether, although maybe not. keep your views coming subscribe our coming in. subscribe to our youtube us on youtube channel. follow us on socials. at gb news. now, socials. we're at gb news. now, tomorrow will be a momentous day for the lionesses. they will take on spain in the world cup final. last time in england final. the last time in england side the was in side reached the final was in 1966, that, of course, was 1966, but that, of course, was the men's team. so with me is aidan magee. sorry , a little aidan magee. oh, sorry, a little fly in my face. aidan magee is a sports broadcaster and journalist and gb news favourite .thank journalist and gb news favourite . thank you very much indeed. now i want to focus on why prince william and other assorted important people aren't going to this match. is this a blatant case of sexism, misogyny , disrespect to our female players ? players? >> no, i don't think it's misogyny. i don't think it's sexism any way. just don't sexism in any way. i just don't think that the think they believe that the event enough to event is important enough to warrant. why? warrant. no. why? >> women? >> because it's women? >> because it's women? >> as women. because >> no, not as women. because it's sporting it's not a big enough sporting event. a men's event. it could be a men's event. it could be a men's event. be it could be event. it could be it could be shot putting in australia. it could be olympic event which could be an olympic event which involves sport or discipline involves a sport or discipline that's as, that's not as high profile as, say , men's cup final, say, a men's world cup final, for i mean, to fair,

for example. i mean, to be fair, he at the games in he wasn't at any of the games in qatar. this prince qatar. however, this is prince william talking about william we're talking about here, any member of here, or indeed any member of the went the the royal family went to the games in qatar. but they would, isn't yeah, exactly. i isn't he? well, yeah, exactly. i mean, probably be there. >> it's harsh, isn't it? >> it's a bit harsh, isn't it? >> it's a bit harsh, isn't it? >> bit harsh? it's not it's >> a bit harsh? it's not it's not no, no, i agree. >> no, no, i agree. >> i think he should be there. i think i do. i do. but it's because he doesn't think the think i do. i do. but it's becau is he doesn't think the think i do. i do. but it's becau is important: think the think i do. i do. but it's becau is important enough.|e event is important enough. that's it's not that's the reason it's not going. it's not only blamed on climate change, is what climate change, which is what everyone the everyone else seems to do in the 21st century. >> just believe that is >> i just don't believe that is the reason. because if it if it were the men's if it were were the men's team, if it were the team australia. the men's team in australia. >> bigger but >> but that's a bigger but that's respect. that's a that's a bit respect. that's a much, much bigger event. >> basically the women have much, much bigger event. >> achieveically the women have much, much bigger event. >> achieve what the women have much, much bigger event. >> achieve what the men's] have much, much bigger event. >> achieve what the men's team�* to achieve what the men's team have notin to achieve what the men's team have not in terms of have in order not in terms of sales, terms of interest in sales, in terms of interest in terms sales, in terms of interest in terryes, exactly. i mean, it's >> yes, exactly. i mean, it's not would much, much not it would be a much, much bigger if the bigger event today if it was the men's final if it men's world cup final than if it was women. but the women's games still we're not there was women. but the women's games still it's we're not there was women. but the women's games still it's only we're not there was women. but the women's games still it's only really not there was women. but the women's games still it's only really we've|ere was women. but the women's games still it's only really we've only yet. it's only really we've only really it seriously yet. it's only really we've only retthis it seriously yet. it's only really we've only retthis country it seriously yet. it's only really we've only retthis country for it seriously yet. it's only really we've only retthis country for the eriously yet. it's only really we've only retthis country for the last|sly in this country for the last commercially anyway for the last 5 yeah. because earlier this >> yeah. because earlier this week was little bit week i was a little bit dismissive of lionesses and dismissive of the lionesses and

the but the women's world cup. but actually tune. actually i've changed my tune. i think it's fantastic that it's encouraging, you know, girls to continue sport because continue on with sport because i mean, i know all well. mean, i know it all too well. i went to girls school and when went to a girls school and when girls becoming girls start, you know, becoming teenagers, on teenagers, they often give up on the sport focus on other the sport and focus on other things. whereas the boys continue on. and if that changes, that's fantastic because, know, are because, you know, people are healthy. i mean, participation, they healthy. i mean, participation, the yes , it is. participation >> yes, it is. but participation is measured over a longer period of mean, were told of time. i mean, we were told back in in the olympics at london, 2012, olympics back , london, 2012, olympics back, what, 30, 11 years ago. now, we were told that everything would change in terms of participation in actually went in participation actually went down what all the down despite what all the corporates were us, corporates were telling us, despite sport england was despite what sport england was telling despite the telling us, despite what the politicians were saying. hugh robertson and people like that. so whether can so i'm not sure whether we can say. so far there's say. we can say so far there's been small uptick. having been a small uptick. but having said look at the said that, if you look at the wessels gone up wessels figures, they've gone up slightly , but you're talking wessels figures, they've gone up slight|from it you're talking wessels figures, they've gone up slight|from a you're talking wessels figures, they've gone up slight|from a very'e talking wessels figures, they've gone up slight|from a very'e ta|base at to about from a very low base at to start we need to judge start with. so we need to judge over long term. it's easy to fill stadium for fill a fill a stadium for a showpiece event. you need to demonstrate you can gather demonstrate that you can gather numbers bread butter numbers for the bread and butter matches week matches from a week to week bafis matches from a week to week basis november, december and

january. >> can't force people go >> you can't force people to go and that they and attend matches that they have in. have no interest in. >> no, you can, but you can do things try and get people things to try and get people along. pricing along. you can make the pricing competitive, which they can they can seen some can do. and we have seen some outstanding games. >> well, what, aiden? >> well, you know what, aiden? i once school football once joined my school football team as a teenager. and team as a teenager. yeah. and i remember scoring a goal in the middlesex girls tournament under 15 or something like that. if i remember, everyone's got a story about goal. about a goal. >> scored ten years ago. >> they scored ten years ago. are you sure? not making this up are football? are making this football? >> impressed, but are making this football? >> it impressed, but are making this football? >> it downhill.sed, but are making this football? >> it downhill from out then it went downhill from there. it was one. it there. i think it was one. it was hit for me, but was a one hit wonder for me, but i had other talents. aiden i had had other talents. aiden so just i was actually a downhill skier , believe it or downhill skier, believe it or not. but the what was i to going say? oh, yes, tomorrow. what should we expect? are the lionesses in for win ? lionesses in for the win? >> i think they probably are, actually. mean, predicted actually. i mean, i've predicted early that it early on in breakfast that it will be 2—1 to england after extra time. i think it'll a extra time. i think it'll be a tight that tight game. my worry is that spain score a lot of spain do score a lot of goals. i mean, it's 14 5 matches so mean, it's 14 in 5 matches so far . also having said that, they far. also having said that, they did against against japan.

did lose against against japan. no, it's actually 14 and six matches. so they lost against japan in second game when it japan in the second game when it was lost so was important. they lost 4—0. so they're conceding they're capable of conceding as well. only conceded well. england have only conceded three goals. also england just seemed get the job seemed to be able to get the job done. they've got stronger as seemed to be able to get the job dontournament's: stronger as seemed to be able to get the job dontournament's gone|ger as the tournament's gone on. they've selection they've got a nice selection dilemma because they've got lauren the lauren james waiting in the wings she's now, wings. she's eligible now, having match having served two match suspension. so she suspension. yes, exactly. so she was kicked out three games was she kicked out three games ago in the i can't remember which game it was. it was a third game of the of group third game of the of the group stage. was that she stage. i think it was that she was who stamped on. was the one who stamped on. >> yes, that's right. >> yes, that's right. >> and it it was >> yeah. and it was it was needless reckless. needless it was reckless. she served i don't served a two game ban. i don't think go back straight think she will go back straight into the first team. i think platoon slightly at platoon would slightly be at risk but toon scored risk there. but ella toon scored the against australia the first goal against australia that be that day, so i think it might be right sarina wiegman. right for sarina wiegman. i think if she's thinking the same way put way i am, she'll probably put lauren james on the bench. if there's no matter what score there's no matter what the score is, or is, whether you're winning or losing. be losing. lauren james would be great take the bench and great to take off the bench and train, stretch train, maybe stretch the spaniards pace. spaniards with with her pace. but say. they've spaniards with with her pace. but they've say. they've spaniards with with her pace. but they've hit;ay. they've spaniards with with her pace. but they've hit four'hey've spaniards with with her pace. but they've hit four fourse scored. they've hit four fours and five so far this tournament. so they can't be dismissed. i was listening to some >> i was listening to some people

>> i was listening to some peopl�*people are saying that some people are saying that there the there are more goals in the women's game. >> mean, think >> i don't know. i mean, i think there was in previous there was there was in previous tournaments. we've tournaments. but what we've actually this actually seen, emily, in this event good for the event is and it's good for the competitive of the event. competitive nature of the event. you've seen the one you've not seen the one sided matches we've seen in matches that we've seen in previous tournaments, in previous tournaments, even in the there the euros last year, there was a 9 10 9 or 10 nil. >> all be watching, >> we'll all be watching, i'm sure. are watching sure. but you are watching and listening to gb news saturday with carver . that was with me, emily carver. that was aidan magee. thank you very much indeed. more indeed. we've got lots more coming today's but coming up on today's show. but before it, let's take before we get to it, let's take a the weather with greg. a look at the weather with greg. >> like things are heating >> looks like things are heating up . boxed boilers, proud up. boxed boilers, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello there. i'm greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest news weather forecast over the next 24 hours or so, we will see further showers largely focussed towards the northwest. the winds are easing as storm betty. generally eases and moves away from the uk , allowing high away from the uk, allowing high pressure to build in from the south. so the best of the sunshine over the next few days will be towards the southeast of the uk into this evening time.

still breezy across parts still fairly breezy across parts of northern ireland, northwest scotland with frequent showers here , clear spells here overnight, clear spells developing across parts of the midlands, eastern england and despite this, it will still be a warm night to come. still breezy around western coast around some western coast temperatures 15 or 16 temperatures generally 15 or 16 celsius in towns and cities , celsius in towns and cities, evenin celsius in towns and cities, even in the countryside, holding up in double figures. so sunday morning, a bright start. there will a scattering of showers will be a scattering of showers from word go across western from the word go across western parts of the uk as we move through morning. of through the morning. the best of the across of the sunshine across parts of the east midlands into east anglia, southeast into the southeast england into the afternoon. we see. we will afternoon. we will see. we will see some scattered showers see some scattered heavy showers developing, but lots of places will dry. still breezy will stay dry. still breezy across the far northwest . across the far northwest. temperatures high teens to low 20s, around 25 or 26, perhaps towards the southeast of england into monday . the towards the southeast of england into monday. the similar start to the weekend really , we'll see to the weekend really, we'll see showers across the west. best of the sunshine across central and southeastern parts and through the day, temperatures will lift

into the low 20s. it stays fine and dry tuesday and wednesday for many of us. >> looks like things are heating up. boxed boilers, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> thank you, greg, for the forecast. so we've got lots more coming up on today's show. the parents of babies killed by nurse lucy letby

or or. or or. or or. or or . or .

where >> welcome to saturday. i'm emily carver. for the next hour, company on tv , online and company on tv, online and digital radio. so coming up, the most prolific killer of babies in modern times. why wasn't killer nurse lucy letby stopped sooner? and did hospital bosses , as one whistleblower put it, potentially facilitate a mass murderer? artificial intelligence is set to be fast tracked into hospitals as nhs chiefs vow to speed up the rollout of new medical technologies. could i fix the health service ? and i want to health service? and i want to know why on earth prince william , the head of the english fa, won't be in us to watch the lionesses in the world cup final, but first, before all of that, the news headlines with . tamsin >> emily, thank you. good afternoon from the gb newsroom . afternoon from the gb newsroom. it's 2:00. the families of

babies murdered or harmed by lucy letby say their search for answers continues as investigators into her case widen . the countess of chester widen. the countess of chester hospital has come under scrutiny over whether more could have been done to stop the serial killer sooner . an been done to stop the serial killer sooner. an independent inquiry will examine the hospital's handling of the case. police will also investigate the care of 4000 babies who passed through the neonatal wards at the two hospitals where she worked yesterday day. she was convicted of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others. she'll be sentenced on monday. psychotherapist lucy beresford says her personal may have helped her avoid suspicion on her colleagues found her very warm and approachable and likeable. >> and the paediatrician who tried to raise the alarm about her allegedly at one point thought to himself, oh her allegedly at one point thought to himself , oh gosh, not thought to himself, oh gosh, not nice. lucy because there was a side to her that was very genial

and that's what makes her crimes so doubly shocking that she could have this exterior of normality and pleasantness , but normality and pleasantness, but actually be capable of these crimes . crimes. >> pakistani police are seeking to arrest the father of saira sharif in connection to her murder . the sharif in connection to her murder. the ten year old's body was found at her home in woking last thursday morning after police received a call from irfan sharif from pakistan . irfan sharif from pakistan. police believe he travelled to islamabad with sara stepmother, uncle and five children a day before sarah's body was discovered. detectives say she had suffered extensive injuries over a sustained period of time . criminal gangs have been condemned by maritime experts for pushing small boats out into the channel during storm betty. coastguard and border force vessels have been called to deal with reports of migrant boats in the sea in treacherous conditions. at least three were intercepted in uk waters this morning. gb news understands

around 100 people were on board. it comes just a week after six migrants drowned attempting the crossing . eight uk says hundreds crossing. eight uk says hundreds of thousands of older people missed out on financial support for their energy bills. the charity claims more than 700,000 households didn't receive help from the energy bill support scheme alternative fund. it was set up for people with non direct supply arrangements such as those living in care homes. mobile homes or on boats. but age uk says the fund had completely flopped due to a complicated application process and a lack of publicity . a and a lack of publicity. a protest over the closure of railway ticket offices will be staged outside downing street later this month. the rmt union says it will stage a mass rally on the 31st of august, which is the last day of the consultation process . it warns the move to process. it warns the move to close up to 1000 offices will put more than 2000 jobs at risk.

the planned action comes as a cross country train workers staged the first of four strikes over working conditions. rmt members will also walk out over the next three saturdays. a state of emergency has been declared in canada's western province of british columbia, where wildfires are threatening homes. thousands of people have been evacuated from the area as fires burn in the hills and mountains above west kelowna. strong winds are fanning the flames with the fire service warning the blaze could reach the outskirts of the city by this weekend . canada is facing this weekend. canada is facing its worst season on record with more than 1000 active fires burning across the country . the burning across the country. the manager of the lionesses says her team is buoyed by the level of support ahead of tomorrow's world cup final . england take on world cup final. england take on spain playing to win the trophy for the first time. lauren james, who served a two match suspension following her red card against nigeria, could

start tomorrow. manager sarina wiegman says it's the same as any other game . any other game. >> i never take anything for granted , but also now playing granted, but also now playing another finals. yeah, what i said is really special, but we're just preparing for a game and yes it is a final, but we don't do anything different than we do normally . we do normally. >> this is gb news across the uk on tv , in your car, on digital on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now is back to . emily thank you tamzin back to. emily thank you tamzin so questions are being asked about whether killer nurse lucy letby could have been stopped sooner. 5001191. >> sooneh >> hospital bosses are under the spotlight after it emerged they failed to act when doctors raised the alarm about letby on numerous, numerous occasions . numerous, numerous occasions. the government has ordered an inquiry into the case after the former nurse was found guilty of murdering seven babies and trying six others. she

trying to kill six others. she is the uk's most prolific killer of babies times . with of babies in modern times. with me to discuss this is gb news political correspondent catherine forster. catherine across all of the papers, really the spotlight is on the nhs. why did they ignore warnings within the hospital and why was the nurse free left free to kill again ? again? >> well, that will be the remit of the independent investigation , which the government announced within a couple of hours of the verdict coming out yesterday. now it will be non—statutory, which means that they cannot compel people to come and talk to it. they can't force people to it. they can't force people to talk to it. but the government's thinking is that these parents have already waited seven and eight years for answers and for any sort of justice because these deaths and attempted murders took place in 2015, 2016. so the government is keen that answers are found and found fast. but i think

certainly, as you say, the focus will be on what seems like very serious failings at that hospital and the nhs trust, because we know that there were several deaths in 2015, in the autumn of that year, consultant paediatricians raised concerns with hospital bosses. they were ignored. two babies went on to die. the following year, three more. lucy letby, we now know, attempted to kill and the father of two children that she tried to kill. but did not manage to have said that higher management need to be held accountable and that if they'd acted, it would have prevented many deaths . a have prevented many deaths. a lawyer speaking on behalf of two of the families have said, we are determined that lessons are learnt by the countess of chester hospital, the nhs and the wider medical profession. so that no babies or parents are put in harm's way like this again. yes because some of these

nhs bosses to whom the whistleblowers came are on fat salaries. >> they're on six figure salary. some of them, as you said earlier, are working at different hospitals now. they seem to have left this hospital . they may be living completely elsewhere , away from what elsewhere, away from what happened.i elsewhere, away from what happened . i think most people happened. i think most people would agree that these nhs bosses who ignored these warnings should be held accountable, should be forced to take part in an inquiry and should be part of a police investigation. >> really ? yes. and the police >> really? yes. and the police investigation is ongoing. operation hummingbird , it's now operation hummingbird, it's now been broadened out. they're going to look into the care of the 4000 babies that went through neonatal wards that lucy letby worked on. so who's to say there may not be other, you know , deaths attributed possibly to

her going forward, but certainly these bosses, some of them have retired, some of them have moved abroad with very nice pensions. others are still elsewhere in the nhs. but at emissions coming out now , that not only could out now, that not only could bosses not see it, didn't want to see it, but were concerned about the optics , were concerned about the optics, were concerned that if they involve the police , it would make the hospital look bad. now it took the police ten minutes when they were finally involved to see that there was something very serious going on here. and the consultants had asked boss is to refer the hospital to the police. the bosses had refused. basically told them to stop making a fuss , had actually made making a fuss, had actually made them apologise to lucy letby for upsetting her when they were actually raising . they suspected actually raising. they suspected she was the common factor. there were 25 incidents all together

and in some cases she was found not guilty or they didn't reach a conclusion. but in every one of these 25 incident, the only common factor was that lucy letby had been on shift and i was speaking to a police officer earlier in the show, a former police officer, and he said that maybe these nhs bosses were more concerned about being accused of allowing bullying to take place within the hospital. >> bullying of letby as a woman, a young woman in there under their remit. then they were about these accusations because it really is the cover up and the sweeping under the carpet. and as you say , asking them to and as you say, asking them to apologise , essentially forcing apologise, essentially forcing them to apologise for these accusations. that is just mind blowing. these people seem to have been looking out for themselves . themselves. >> they do. they seem to have been lied , told, i suppose, by been lied, told, i suppose, by the fact that lucy letby appeared very nice and sweet. they didn't believe it. they

didn't want to believe it. they'd rather not believe it because how it would reflect on the hospital would be so bad if it was true. but of course it is true . and not only is the true. and not only is the situation far worse than it needed to have been, if they'd acted sooner , but also now the acted sooner, but also now the hospital looks absolutely terrible. and of course we have been here before . beverley been here before. beverley allitt murdered babies in the 90s. there was a big inquiry. they said that lessons would be learned, but it's all very well saying lessons need to be learned. but what actual changes will be made going forward to make sure that when people, experts , paediatricians that experts, paediatricians that understand exactly what was happening with babies, what's normal, what's not, we're not listened to and not just one, not just two, but seven of them were lot not listened to. surely changes need to be made . changes need to be made. >> and it's a reminder, of course, to all of us that there is no one profile for a serial

killer. there was no one profile for someone who can commit evil acts like this . of course there acts like this. of course there is. this has opened up a renewed pubuc is. this has opened up a renewed public debate over whether the killers, those accused, those found to have committed heinous crimes, should have to go to the dock for their sentencing. we've saw that thomas cashman killer of olivia practical bell, jordan mcsweeney killer of zara aleena, also refused to sit there in the court and take their sentence . court and take their sentence. are the government doing anything about it? >> well, they're talking about doing something about it now. dominic raab, the former justice secretary, said earlier in the year they wanted to change the law to come impel killers to have to sit and hear their sentence , read out and face the sentence, read out and face the relatives. and alex chalk, the current justice secretary, is making similar noises. but what we haven't actually seen is a change of legislation , no being change of legislation, no being brought forward. but of course ,

brought forward. but of course, it is problematic because if you haul somebody in, they might kick and scream. they might be abusive. and also threats to sort of lengthen their sentence. if they don't cooperate . well, i if they don't cooperate. well, i think they'll be absolutely outrage if lucy letby is ever allowed. >> irrelevant in this case, almost surely. >> surely so it's very difficult. but clearly, the public, i think any reasonable person would feel that it was the final insult to these families. for lucy letby , having families. for lucy letby, having committed these unimaginable crimes to be allowed to hide away, you know, it really is just the most terrible end to an incredible and we saw her parents are clearly in utter denial about it. >> refuse to believe and friends of hers also were refusing to believe . it just shows that you believe. it just shows that you can be, on the surface a sweet, even a geeky, studious type of person . and actually, you're person. and actually, you're capable of these kind of crimes. now, you've been getting in

touch with us. thank you. by the way, katherine, you've been getting in touch at on our getting in touch at home on our big the day , lucy big topic of the day, lucy letby, of ron says nurse letby, of course, ron says nurse lucy letby is clearly a highly disturbed young woman who has rightly prosecuted . the rightly been prosecuted. the same should await the same fate should await the managers were concerned managers who were more concerned about of their about the reputation of their hospital about hospital than they were about the safety of the babies in their care . yes, the cheshire their care. yes, the cheshire police investigation continues, so we may well see some of those nhs managers held accountable. darryl says. let's have a petition to reintroduce the death penalty for these crimes. while darryl were just about to have a debate on that very matter indeed. of course, when there are these types of crimes , people do call for the return of capital punishment. audrey says the procedure is not working in the nhs. says the procedure is not working in the nhs . management working in the nhs. management will do anything to avoid investigate signs going on. people are unsuitable to people who are unsuitable to work vulnerable people who work with vulnerable people who redeployed making redeployed rather than making them face justice. yes, this is this a problem in the way the nhs and hospitals are run in this country? that these things can be allowed to happen ? now

can be allowed to happen? now keep your views coming in. please subscribe to our please do subscribe to our youtube on youtube channel. follow us on all of our socials. we're at gb news. so joining me now to debate whether the punishment is fitting for lucy letby for the crime , social policy analyst crime, social policy analyst ricky bazan and former conservative adviser claire pearsall . thank you very much pearsall. thank you very much indeed to you both. a very difficult thing to discuss, of course, a heinous crime serial killer of babies at their most vulnerable . these types of vulnerable. these types of crimes , as it often rear ignites crimes, as it often rear ignites the debate around capital punishment, is a life sentence enough for this type of crime ? enough for this type of crime? or would you see the return of capital punishment in these cases as well? >> firstly , emily, we just have >> firstly, emily, we just have to say that these are thoroughly unimaginable crimes committed by someone who is in a position of trust. >> ultimately, this is someone who exploited her position as a nurse and we could see that

these crimes here, they've they've had a profound impact on wider society. >> now , in terms of talking >> now, in terms of talking about the reintroduction of the death penalty, it's very interesting that according to yougov polling last month, the majority of british people, 55, would support the reintroduction of the death penalty for those who kill a child . who kill a child. >> now, in this case, we're talking about a serial killer who's been found guilty of murdering seven babies. so it's not a fringe position to think that lucy letby is deserved of the death penalty. in fact , it's the death penalty. in fact, it's very likely that that's the mainstream view in wider british society . society. >> it's quite interesting, isn't it, claire, because in most of the mainstream media, you would not think that was the case, that actually the return of capital punishment for these types of crimes, specifically these types of crimes where babies are killed, that they should deserve capital punishment . you wouldn't punishment. you wouldn't

necessarily think that were the case. >> well, i think ricky is right when it is a crime as heinous as this , where you are talking this, where you are talking about defence, small babies who are newly born and very poorly and very vulnerable, then i think that people will automatically say that the person responsible still deserves the death penalty . we deserves the death penalty. we don't need them in prison. they need to be gone. but i think if you actually discuss the bringing back of capital punishments in a sort of wider sense, i think people wouldn't quite be so keen. i don't trust that the state would would make the correct decision in every single case. and as we've seen recently, not comparable. but andrew malcolmson, who was in jail for 17 years for something he didn't do . and it's things he didn't do. and it's things like that, i worry that the state would get it wrong. somebody would lose their life and then be found be innocent i >> -- >> so -- >>so| >> so i don't support coming back of death penalty at all. >> i think it was right that we

got away, that we got rid of it , and it was debated, i believe, last in sort of 1998, 1999, in the house of commons and was voted that they wouldn't even discuss bringing it back again. so i do think that people want some kind of justice. they want immediate justice and they want a harsh punishment . but i don't a harsh punishment. but i don't think that we're ready to see this come back . this come back. >> ricky claire makes the point very strongly there that , well, very strongly there that, well, firstly , what's to say that the firstly, what's to say that the judgement is always correct , judgement is always correct, that if someone is found guilty , it is 100% the case? can we ever be 100% sure in these cases that someone is guilty? and also , is it workable practically ? , is it workable practically? would it be workable? i can imagine legal challenges we see in the us that people are on death row for years , years and death row for years, years and years and years at the cost of the taxpayer . it's not really the taxpayer. it's not really going to happen. it's not really worth even debating . maybe ricky

worth even debating. maybe ricky well, i wouldn't say that it's not worth debate . not worth debate. >> i mean, we're having the debate right now , but i agree debate right now, but i agree with claire in that that risk or that miscarriage of justice, if there was one mistake made, it's a devastating mistake. and the irony is, of course, is that this particular case is a case of fundamental state failure in itself . so i think that maybe itself. so i think that maybe what could be the compromise is that the likes of lucy letby firstly, i think there should be a strong psychological, psychological, psychological and psychiatric evaluations of lucy letby to really understand how on earth a human, human being can even behave this way . and i can even behave this way. and i think that there has to be the guarantee that there is that whole life order that this life means life. and i think that's part of the problem, really, that we see many of these sentences where we say this. this a imprisonment this is a life imprisonment sentence. but all too often that doesn't that's not the case. and then people are released. so i think that along with that , i

think that along with that, i think that along with that, i think that along with that, i think that we need to have there needs to be a thorough investigation when it comes to the managers who have clearly failed in their duties to respond effective to concerns over lucy letby i think all too often we have too many public sector officials. they're more interested in prioritising organisational reputation over patient safety in the nhs. and they funded, they failed to protect the very most vulnerable in society and we should have a stronger law and order approach when it comes to those kind of individuals as well. >> yes, absolutely . claire rikki >> yes, absolutely. claire rikki neave makes a very good point there in terms of the fact that life doesn't always mean life, and that may be one of the reasons why people are keen to see a of capital see a return of capital punishment in some particular cases , because criminals are cases, because criminals are often let out. well, a long time before it was intended, their sentence stay ated well , that's right. >> and i think that's the worst of all of the justice system , is of all of the justice system, is when you see somebody convicted

of a heinous crime and sentenced to life imprisonment and then suddenly after 15, 20 years, they're allowed back out into they're allowed back out into the population. i think that really angers the public. it doesn't give people any confidence in the justice system. i suspect that it will not happen in this case. i suspect that lucy letby will be given a whole life sentence plus some added on for not being in court to receive that sentence, and i can't see her ever being let out of prison. but i think ricky makes a really valid point about the psychology and psychiatric testing that needs to take place, because i think we owe it to the families to understand also what that person's motives were and also how we can notice that in other people , again, because we can't people, again, because we can't allow these situations to continue and we never want to see a crime like this happen again in nhs hospitals completely . completely. >> as it stands, we don't know the psychology of this woman at all. we don't know what her motivations were. there's a lot

of conjecture, of course, and people have different hypotheses, but we don't know for sure. it be very for sure. and it would be very important for to that important for us to find that out for victims to be out and for the victims to be able to have even an element of closure element of closure on this even element of justice. rikki neave just on the point people are point that many people are raising, should have raising, whether she should have to face sentence in the dock to face her sentence in the dock on monday morning, should she be there, do you think it should be written into law that criminals must face their sentence in person ? person? >> oh, absolutely. i think it's cowardice that the this particular individual and she's not the only one many serious criminals who haven't actually faced and there's the victims, the families that are there . the families that are there. they should be in a position where they have to look at them or they have to at least at the very least, share the same courtroom. i think that not being not attending being there, not attending the sentencing , i think that's sentencing, i think that's unacceptable. and i think the government should really look into that that no into making sure that that no longer is the case and pass legislation to ensure that that

doesn't happen again, especially when it comes to serious criminals such as this one. >> and claire, some would say, well, she could cause a scene, there be screaming and there could be screaming and shouting, which could be distressing to those in the court . but there must be ways court. but there must be ways around that. it does not seem right that someone convicted of such a heinous crime doesn't sit there and face the music, for want of a better phrase , is want of a better phrase, is absolute . absolute. >> and ideally, i would like to see these people in the dock facing up to the crimes that they have committed. but all of they have committed. but all of the arguments against it, which i do understand , why can there i do understand, why can there not be a middle ground such as a holding cell in prison or wherever they are kept present at the time and made to listen to the judge's summing up now thatis to the judge's summing up now that is always given on a live stream at the moment. and i think there's a really, really good advancement in the justice system . so why can't they be system. so why can't they be made to sit ? they're made to made to sit? they're made to listen . isn't that going to be

listen. isn't that going to be a better way? rather than forcing the spectacle of dragging somebody into court and potentially gagging and binding them? i don't think that's solves anybody's purpose here. and i think that we can find a middle ground to make sure that justice is served. yes i think there must be aware. >> and if the government says they're supportive this, they're supportive of this, then they're supportive of this, then they something they should act and do something about thank you very about it. but thank you very much a sound social much indeed. a sound social policy analyst and former conservative adviser claire pearsall . thank you very much pearsall. thank you very much indeed. pearsall. thank you very much indeed . you're watching and indeed. you're watching and listening to gb news saturday with me, carville. we've with me, emily carville. we've got up got lots more coming up on today's before get today's show. but before we get today's show. but before we get to take a look at the to it, let's take a look at the weather greg. weather with greg. >> the temperatures rising , boxt >> the temperatures rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello there. i'm greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast . over the next 24 hours or so, we will see further showers largely focussed towards the northwest . the winds are easing northwest. the winds are easing as storm betty generally eases and moves away from the uk,

allowing high pressure to build in from the south. so the best of the sunshine over the next few days will be towards the south—east of the uk into this evening time. still fairly breezy across parts of northern ireland, north—west scotland with showers here with frequent showers here overnight. spells overnight. clear spells developing across parts of the midlands , eastern england. midlands, eastern england. and despite this, it will still be a warm night to come. still breezy around some western coast temperatures , generally 15 or 16 temperatures, generally 15 or 16 celsius in towns and cities , celsius in towns and cities, evenin celsius in towns and cities, even in the countryside, holding up in double figures. so sunday morning, a bright start. there will a scattering of showers will be a scattering of showers from across western from the word go across western parts of uk as we move parts of the uk as we move through the morning. the best of parts of the uk as we move throsunshine norning. the best of parts of the uk as we move throsunshine across]. the best of parts of the uk as we move throsunshine across parts best of parts of the uk as we move thro sunshine across parts ofest of parts of the uk as we move thro sunshine across parts of thef the sunshine across parts of the east midlands into east anglia, southeast into the southeast england into the afternoon . we will will afternoon. we will see, we will see scattered heavy showers see some scattered heavy showers developing, but lots of places will stay dry. still breezy across far northwest. across the far northwest. temperatures high teens to low 20s, around 25 or 26, perhaps towards the south—east of england into monday. the similar start to the weekend really ,

start to the weekend really, we'll see showers across the west. best of the sunshine across central and south eastern parts . and through the day, parts. and through the day, temperatures will lift into the low 20s. it stays fine and dry tuesday and wednesday for many of us. >> the temperatures rising , boxt >> the temperatures rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> we've got plenty still coming up. let me know what you think about the debate we just had. is about the debate we just had. is a life sentence enough for this type of crime that letby committed ? should life always committed? should life always mean life ? or would you look to mean life? or would you look to another form of punishment? we'll also be looking at the number of students doing music a—levels . it's almost in a—levels. it's almost halved in the decade . quite the last decade. quite extraordinary. could sunak extraordinary. could rishi sunak some maths and science push to be blame? i'm emily carver and you're watching and listening to gb news .

news. the people's channel. britain's news . news. the people's channel. britain's news. channel >> you're watching gb news. i'm tamsin roberts with the headunes tamsin roberts with the headlines here at 230. the lawyers representing the families of two of lucy letby victims have called the independent inquiry inadequate. the government ordered a non—statutory investigation into the cases after the former nurses conviction yesterday. letby was found guilty of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others.

in a statement, attempted murder of six others. in a statement , the lawyers said in a statement, the lawyers said the inquiry doesn't have the power to compel witnesses to provide evidence or produce documents and therefore lacks real teeth . letby will be real teeth. letby will be sentenced on monday . pakistani sentenced on monday. pakistani police are seeking to arrest the father of saira sharif in connection with her murder. the ten year old's body was found at her home in woking last thursday morning after police received a call from irfan sharif from pakistan . police believe he pakistan. police believe he travelled to islamabad with sarah's stepmother , uncle and sarah's stepmother, uncle and five children a day before sarah's body was discovered. detective say she had suffered extensive injuries over a sustained period of time . sustained period of time. criminal gangs have been condemned by maritime experts for pushing small boats out into the channel during storm betty. coastguard and border force vessels have been called to deal with reports of migrant boats in the sea in treacherous conditions . at least three were

conditions. at least three were intercepted in uk waters this morning. gb news understands around 100 people were on board. it comes just a week after six migrants drowned attempting the crossing . the manager of the crossing. the manager of the lionesses says her team is buoyed by the level of support ahead of tomorrow's world cup final. england take on spain playing to win the trophy for the first time. lauren james, who served a two match suspension following her red card against nigeria , could card against nigeria, could start tomorrow . well, you can start tomorrow. well, you can get more on all of those stories by visiting our website , gb by visiting our website, gb news. now, though , back to . emily >> welcome back to gb news. saturday with me, emily carver on your tv, online and digital radio. now, it was a—level results day this week and it came with a staggering statistic the number of pupils studying music has almost halved just in the last decade, dropping by a

massive 45% since 2010. rishi sunakis massive 45% since 2010. rishi sunak is pushing us to become a more stem centric country, isn't he? and capping the number of students on low value arts degrees. that was in quotations, by the way . are we stifling by the way. are we stifling british creative and talent ? british creative and talent? joining me now is the principal of the london college of contemporary music, anthony hammer hodges. thank you very much anthony for joining much indeed. anthony for joining me is this is quite sad, me this is this is quite sad, isn't it, to see that fewer and fewer students are taking music up to a—level level? well there's a good mark twain quote, never let your schooling get in the way of your education. >> and i think that whilst it's obviously been government policy and perhaps systematic kind of devaluing of the arts, it's a real shame because britain has always punched above its weight culturally, but we've got to be careful we're not cutting off the talent pipeline at source and other countries will will dominate . in the last ten years dominate. in the last ten years we've seen that decline at

schools. but in that period we've had three british artists as the best selling artist globally in a day, ed sheeran and harry styles one direction. so we've got to make sure we are producing the headline artists of the future . of the future. >> now you don't obviously need an a—level in music to become a fantastic musician and to do well in that field. but it does show that there's less of an interest in it in an academic way. at least now i remember that. i remember being school that, you know, some students would think that, oh, they can sing and they can play an instrument. so therefore they'd be able to excel at an a—level in music. but it's not the same skills. is it necessary for an a—level in music isn't simply just being able to play the violin a bit or being able to sing, is it? it's so much more . sing, is it? it's so much more. >> no, i mean, obviously the london college of contemporary music, we are almost like a conservatoire on the commercial, the contemporary side of music, not classical and i think that's part of the problem in a way.

when you look at how music is taught the heavy taught at schools, is the heavy emphasis on classical repertoire and there is an attempt to be more inclusive with with global cultures , but there's not really cultures, but there's not really a tapping in of the current pop music and the current classics. the young people are going to be most interested. so do you think there should we should be, there should be we should be, you studying in in you know, studying rap in in a—level music or drill music or, you know, more r&b? well, you've got to think about what the purpose of education is . it's purpose of education is. it's not just about a trans national, a kind of a technical training . a kind of a technical training. it's about the practise and the improvement of oneself, the preparation for life as an adult of navigating an uncertain world. and first of all, you have to harness passion and interest before you can then impart knowledge and see that gradual progress over time. so perhaps rap is the entry level entry point into a study of music and a love of the practise of music. >> i mean, i'm sure a lot of parents and pupils would agree with you. i'm not so sure. i

think maybe we need more classical music taught in schools and appreciation of it, because i think quite a lot of young people may turn their noses up at it. you know, why would i be interested in opera? why be interested why would i be interested in bach or mozart? why would i be interested in bacwell,viozart? why would i be interested in bacwell, i)zart? why would i be interested in bacwell, i think i think, again, >> well, i think i think, again, you have to look at where the relevance is for who is relevance is for someone who is 16 years old and perhaps if it's the study of classical music where it's been used really powerfully in movie , a tv powerfully in a movie, a tv series or a video game that could really connect with someone. you know, and we someone. yeah you know, and we see you know, young people are more open minded about music than i think any generation have been was growing been before. when i was growing up, all about genres and up, he was all about genres and scenes. you have the world's scenes. now you have the world's recorded music at your your fingers 24 over seven and people are getting into classical music, but they're discovering it in novel ways of discovering it in novel ways of discovering it via social media. they're discovering it via video games and tv, as they say. so it's teaching it within context rather remote . rather than remote. >> that's very true, actually. there's some beautiful classical

music find now on video music that you find now on video games , which is quite games, which is quite remarkable. it's not first remarkable. it's not the first place necessarily look for place you'd necessarily look for classical is classical music, but it is certainly there. that certainly there. and if that captures imagination of captures the imagination of children, then can only be children, then that can only be a thing because wouldn't a good thing because i wouldn't like see a—level music dumbed like to see a—level music dumbed down to just fit in with contemporary culture. >> it's not dumbing down, it's finding the relevance so that it can be the practise of music on a daily basis. that's one of the incredible things . another quote incredible things. another quote this from aristotle that music is essential in the formation of character , and it is one of character, and it is one of these things that almost everyone is universally passionate about. and it's also one of the most demonstrates what ways you can improve on a daily basis. these habits of positive practise where you dedicate yourself, even if it's small and often to improving yourself music, whether is piano, whether it's singing, whether it sounds rough , it whether it sounds rough, it reminds me of me scratching away at my violin. >> my poor parents had to listen to me. butcher what ever it was

i trying to play, it was i was trying to play, but it was good for commitment, for learning to commit practise learning to commit to a practise and learning to excel at something that isn't your usual academic work or something like that. i think it is very important, but hopefully with this push for stem, it won't mean that we abandon music , mean that we abandon music, which of course is so important. >> how dull would society be if we were all accountants? >> well, there go. but >> well, there you go. but accountant sir. important accountant, sir. very important too, . too, anthony. >> well, need to count the >> well, they need to count the money hopefully counting money and hopefully counting the money and hopefully counting the money some major british superstars. >> well, yeah, at sheeran, counting his money and counting all his money and all his thank much his houses. thank you very much indeed, anthony . hema hodges, indeed, anthony. hema hodges, you the principal of the you are the principal of the london college contemporary london college of contemporary music. thank very much music. thank you very much indeed time. and coming music. thank you very much indethe time. and coming music. thank you very much indethe studio time. and coming music. thank you very much indethe studio now,�*. and coming music. thank you very much indethe studio now, lotsd coming music. thank you very much indethe studio now, lotsd cyou1g into the studio now, lots of you at home have been getting in touch letby, zeenat says touch on lucy letby, zeenat says lucy letby does deserve capital punishment if she claims mental illness. it should be noted if she well enough act she was well enough to act innocent job without innocent and do herjob without anyone was anyone noticing something was amiss , then she was well enough amiss, then she was well enough to seek help. yes, we haven't actually seen that. as a

defence. i don't believe mental health defence by her health was a defence by her lawyer. i think it was more incompetence that was provided as a defence. roger says the underlying nhs culture must bear much of the blame that this individual was allowed to continue for so long. i'm not sure what you're referring to there. perhaps there. roger but perhaps the fact concerned fact that they were concerned about she was about bullying, that she was being bullied, that letby being bullied, that lucy letby was bullied more than the was being bullied more than the whistleblowers , what they were whistleblowers, what they were saying, margaret, says letby has been found guilty of these murders should murders and therefore she should be sit in the dock be made to sit in the dock for the sentencing. she the sentencing. i think she should of her should spend the rest of her life prison that better life in prison. that is better than punishment. she than capital punishment. she will punished enough in will be punished enough in prison. would tend to agree prison. i would tend to agree with you there. leigh says with you there. and leigh says doctors nurses staff doctors, nurses and staff shouldn't administer shouldn't be able to administer anything alone. there should be anything alone. there should be a two always a minimum of two people always checking that there can't be errors or foul play. i guess i don't know exactly what the rules are around around that, but you make a lot of sense. it's just resources, though , it's just resources, though, isn't it? please do keep your views in. this is, of views coming in. this is, of course, gb news saturday with

me, coming up , me, emily carver. coming up, could intelligence could ai artificial intelligence save the nhs health service bosses have vowed to speed out speed up the rollout of this new technology in hospitals . will it technology in hospitals. will it make a difference? all of that and more to come. you're watching and listening to gb news, britain's news

this evening. gb news the people's channel. britain's watching . watching. >> welcome back to gb news saturday with me, emily carver

on your tv online and digital radio. now could artificial intelligence fix the nhs? the government has plans to fast track this technology into hospital calls, so who better to talk to then? tech journalist wil guyot, thank you very much indeed, wil, for joining wil guyot, thank you very much indeed, wil, forjoining me . indeed, wil, for joining me. now, the nhs is often accused of being quite slow when it comes to technological development and advancement. we all know stories of old, outdated phone systems in gp practises and data going amiss or going awry. should i be introduced? and why hasn't it so far? or has it ? far? or has it? >> well, ai is now slowly being introduced into the world of the nhs , mostly in diagnosis at the nhs, mostly in diagnosis at the moment . there's a great deal of moment. there's a great deal of tests going on and a great deal of research to see if i can help diagnose certain types of breast canceh diagnose certain types of breast cancer. it's also being used in tests at the moment to find most suitable organs for donation. >> but the risk we face here,

emily, and the thing that concerns me the most is i suddenly becomes the magical fix for all of the issues we have in the nhs. talking of the tech issues, you've talked of old technology in the nhs, there's still over 8000 pages. pages were pretty much made redundant everywhere else before the year 2000, there still using machines in the nhs , there's lots of in the nhs, there's lots of problems that need to be fixed before you can really get ai problems that need to be fixed before you can really get al to start shaking up some of the kind of bigger medical issues. i was speaking to a consultant just a week ago. >> i was my mum was getting some treatment he had for different computer record systems and none of them talk to each other in one hospital. >> so you've got all of these problems in the nhs that need to be simply is not going be fixed. i simply is not going to fix. >> so will the government are talking cutting red tape, talking about cutting red tape, introducing this new technology. but actually you've got consultants, doctors , staff consultants, doctors, staff still using pages and faxes . are

still using pages and faxes. are we jumping the gun a bit here? >> i think we are. i also witnessed a consultant in the last year filling something out on three sheets of paper because they didn't even have a piece of carbon paper to put between them, to copy it between forms they still to order things they still use to order things like scans. so you're in this situation where i really can have a transformer effect on the nhs. it's going to basically be an additional support for the medical specialists in other areas of society . we worry about areas of society. we worry about artificial intelligence taking people's jobs, but just imagine if in the nhs this can be an extra set of supportive eyes understanding, you know , complex understanding, you know, complex medical diagnosis. some of the research they're doing with artificial intelligence. now, emily suggests that some of these algorithm that they're creating and now as wise as doctors who've got 30 plus years experience in diagnosing certain conditions so there's a nice kind of development and pace going through in this world of artificial intelligence. but it's not going to fix all the

other problems. at the same time. we could still have those if isn't spent and the if the money isn't spent and the investment isn't made properly. >> absolutely not. but >> no, absolutely not. but we can't the falling too can't have the nhs falling too far behind other comparable health systems around the world. we know that patient outcomes aren't where they should be in the i worry that perhaps ai the nhs. i worry that perhaps ai is being used in private hospitals. perhaps it's being used all over the world in in better health services and we're still still using paper which is a bit of a shame. but you know, i'm optimistic about the use of ai if it can if it can cut down waiting times, diagnoses , if it waiting times, diagnoses, if it can improve the care that people have, then all guns blazing . i have, then all guns blazing. i say thank you very much indeed. will guyot tech journal they're talking about how the ai could be used in the nhs. talking about how the ai could be used in the nhs . but are we be used in the nhs. but are we actually ready it ? it actually ready for it? it doesn't sound we are. maybe doesn't sound like we are. maybe let know you think now, let me know what you think now, prince william is under fire for failing to attend the women's world final in australia. world cup final in australia. i think he should. he is the president the football president of the football association , but he's decided

association, but he's decided not australia to cheer not to fly to australia to cheer on lionesses some have on the lionesses some have questioned whether the same decision would have been taken if it was the men's team in the final. so joining me now is former royal correspondent at the sun, charles rea charles. charles, charles, thank you very much indeed for your time. sorry for mispronouncing your name. so we're endlessly prince william. he should be there, shouldn't he ? >> absolutely, 7 >> absolutely, 100. >> absolutely, 100. >> he should be there. >> he should be there. >> the semi—final was played on wednesday. there was plenty of time for him to get on a plane. and let's be honest, it's 22 hours to get there. i understand all that. but he would be travelling in first class now. there's been an awful lot of comment saying things like, comment made saying things like, oh, the security would have to go the other arrangements would have to be made. >> who'd be paying? >> who'd be paying? >> that's not the point. the point is he is president of the fia and the queen of spain is going to support the spanish, which is quite right. and he should be there purely on the

bafis should be there purely on the basis that he's president of the fia. listen if it had been the men in this world cup final, the people sunak and prince people at rishi sunak and prince william everyone else would william and everyone else would be scrambling tickets to be scrambling for tickets to make that were there, make sure that they were there, they there and support they should be there and support they should be there and support the same fashion. the women in the same fashion. >> well, there you go. charles has , but do you has spoken, but they do you know, he does open himself up to fairly or unfairly , the fairly or unfairly, the accusation that he's a little bit sexist , maybe not turning accusation that he's a little bit sexist, maybe not turning up to see the women play. it's not a great look . a great look. >> i don't i don't think he's sexist in any in any way. >> i, i think he's been advised wrong . wrong. >> i think he has. as you're captioned says and it's an own goal for them and you know to send james cleverly the foreign secretary and lucy frazer , the secretary and lucy frazer, the culture secretary it does that doesn't amount to very much. i'd just like to point out that i'm sure that james cleverly will have security go with him as well, because he is the foreign secretary. know, secretary. but, you know, william , they should have had william, they should have had a rethink this . he have rethink on this. he should have gone.

>> yeah, i guess the defence is that it's very, far away. that it's very, very far away. but yes, i do agree with you that he should have made the effort. he who flies around the world all the time. why not for the lionesses to see them the the lionesses to see them in the cleverly james cleverly is getting on the same plane. >> i'm assuming he would have got. there. he's got. so he's going there. he's going support the lionesses. going to support the lionesses. i he's doing it because i know he's doing it because it's government minister it's a government minister that's going there, but it should prime minister should be the prime minister there. it should be prince william president f. william as president of the f. yeah i think that's right. >> now, moving on to other matters, apparently the king is to hold an urgent summit with william and catherine over the future of the monarchy. what might be said ? might be said? >> right. well, apparently he's going to call william and catherine into a meeting. it's supposed to be at balmoral on monday . i'm sure that monday monday. i'm sure that monday could have been moved to allow william to get to australia . but william to get to australia. but they're going to have this meeting to discuss mainly the

commonwealth, to try to shore up the commonwealth because we've got countries who have already left the commonwealth and some who are thinking of leaving the commonwealth and so they'll be talking about various visits to the commonwealth countries, not just that, but the future of the monarchy. we've now got a very slimmed down monarchy in this country and you know, charles knows only too well that he needs william and catherine, you know, as young royals and who are very, very popular. you know, i know i've been a bit critical of william , but i'm a critical of william, but i'm a big supporter of william and catherine in the main. and i think that's the sort of thing they'll be at for the they'll be looking at for the future. >> there are a lot of >> well, there are a lot of difficulties , aren't their difficulties, aren't their popularity? might be popularity? they might be talking how keep the talking about how to keep the british public when it british public onside when it comes to the monarchy. does that mean slimming further? mean slimming it down further? does mean shaking it up in does that mean shaking it up in one way or another? i'm not sure how you can slim it down.

>> you know that much further, to be perfectly honest. you've got wait now george, got to wait now for george, charlotte louis to join the charlotte and louis to join the family, for him to get on that work but at the work treadmill. but at the moment you've you've got because you've got edward and sophie in there now the places of . there now taking the places of. i did see it, the montecito muppets who are now in america who are not doing anything. so they've stepped into the breach. so you will need a few people . so you will need a few people. and the nucleus is there already . and of course, as they all get older and let's not forget, the king queen are in the king and queen are in the mid 70s. you know, others need to 70s. so you know, others need to come in and help. and i think you're right about the popularity and the popularity. it is dependent on it depends is dependent on william catherine. william and catherine. >> yes. and what's the point of having a having a monarchy at all if it's so tiny and has so few family members involved? one could argue that. thank you very much indeed, rea, royal much indeed, charles rea, royal correspondent at the sun, bringing latest royal bringing us the latest royal news. time up for me. news. so that's time up for me. that's all you've got from me today. but tuned because today. but stay tuned because dawn up next she's dawn is up next and she's appeared studio in hot appeared in the studio in hot

pink dawn. what's coming up on your show? >> like green goddess, my >> like a green goddess, my lovely . lovely good together. >> we do, actually. >> we do, actually. >> we do, actually. >> we look good together, don't we? show we? we've got cracking show coming following coming up in guiding following on charlie was just on from what charlie was just saying exclusive on from what charlie was just saying prince exclusive on from what charlie was just sayingprince harry exclusive on from what charlie was just sayingprince harry and:lusive on from what charlie was just sayingprince harry and the ve on from what charlie was just sayingprince harry and the royal about prince harry and the royal cup . the world cup. ooh cup. the world cup. ooh absolutely . so not just that absolutely. so not just that we've got a packed show, really have. >> we've also got we're going raving in ibiza . raving in ibiza. >> wow. well, why wouldn't you ? >> wow. well, why wouldn't you? unfortunately, we're going with angela but you can't angela rayner. but you can't have everything in life and we have everything in life and we have a cracking have also got a cracking exclusive with michael jackson's former who's got the former bodyguard who's got the most incredible story. >> emily so you really you've been speaking to been to going be speaking to him. michael jackson's him. yes. michael jackson's former . wow. you won't former bodyguard. wow. you won't want to miss that . definitely want to miss that. definitely sounds a fantastic show. sounds like a fantastic show. you know what? we've been talking , of course, about you know what? we've been talk horrific , of course, about you know what? we've been talk horrific lucy: course, about you know what? we've been talk horrific lucy letby;e, about you know what? we've been talk horrific lucy letby case.)ut the horrific lucy letby case. lots of questions to be asked of nhs bosses, lots of things to find out. we also talked about the royals, course, with find out. we also talked about the roy' rea. course, with find out. we also talked about the roy' rea. we've;e, with find out. we also talked about the roy' rea. we've spoken about charles rea. we've spoken about all sorts. we've talked about al in it's a goer in the nhs, whether it's a goer . apparently doctors are still using pages . in 2023 machines.

using pages. in 2023 machines. yeah, in fact, fax machines. i mean, really , you know, it is mean, really, you know, it is 20, 23, a little bit of . i 20, 23, a little bit of. i wouldn't go amiss would it. dawn well, provided they don't have any security breaches, what happens. any security breaches, what happens . well, yes, there. is happens. well, yes, there. is that true. i shouldn't laugh at that. but you've been watching and listening to gb news saturday with me. emily carver, and listening to gb news saturdyou/ith me. emily carver, and listening to gb news saturdyou veryne. emily carver, and listening to gb news saturdyou very much|ily carver, and listening to gb news saturdyou very much|ily yourer, thank you very much for your company sending so company and for sending in so many emails and tweets. don't go anywhere, though dawn ready many emails and tweets. don't go any\waiting.iough dawn ready many emails and tweets. don't go any\waiting. she's dawn ready many emails and tweets. don't go any\waiting. she's upawn ready many emails and tweets. don't go any\waiting. she's up next. ready many emails and tweets. don't go any\waiting. she's up next. butdy and waiting. she's up next. but first, let's take a look at the weather with greg. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello there. i'm greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast . over the next 24 hours or so, we will see further showers largely focussed towards the northwest. the winds are easing as storm betty generally eases and moves away from the uk, allowing high pressure to build in from the south. so the best of the sunshine over the next

few days will be towards the southeast of the uk into this evening time . still fairly evening time. still fairly breezy across parts of northern ireland, northwest scotland with frequent overnight. frequent showers here overnight. clear spells developing across parts the midlands , eastern parts of the midlands, eastern england. despite this, it england. and despite this, it will still be a warm night to come. still breezy around some western coast temperatures, generally 15 or 16 celsius in towns and cities , even in the towns and cities, even in the countryside holding up in double figures. so sunday morning, a bright start. there will be a scattering the scattering of showers from the word across western parts of word go across western parts of the uk as we move through the morning. of morning. the best of the sunshine the sunshine across parts of the east into east anglia, east midlands into east anglia, southeast england into the afternoon. we will see. we will see some scattered heavy showers developing, but lots of places will dry. still breezy will stay dry. still breezy across the far north—west. temperatures high teens to low 20s, around 25 or 26, perhaps towards the south—east of england into monday. the similar start to the weekend, really, we'll see showers across the west. best of the sunshine

across central and southeastern parts and through the day, temperatures will lift into the low 20s. it stays fine and dry tuesday and wednesday for many of us. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers proud sponsors of weather on

gb news. well.

hello and good afternoon. >> welcome to gb news on your tv, on your digital radio. i'm dawn neesom filling in for the lovely nana akua having a well—deserved rest and for the next three hours, me and my wonderful panellist be wonderful panellist will be taking the big taking on some of the big topics, hitting the headlines right now. >> this show all >> this show is all about opinion in mind. >> but most importantly >> there's but most importantly yours, not actually that yours, we're not actually that important reading. yours, we're not actually that importan beading. yours, we're not actually that importan be debating, discussing >> we'd be debating, discussing and times disagreeing in a and at times disagreeing in a nice though. nice way, though. >> me for the next hour >> joining me for the next hour is broadcaster and columnist lydia sandy. looking gorgeous , lydia sandy. looking gorgeous, as always, political commentator matthew stadlen probably looking equally gorgeous, very moody equally gorgeous, yet very moody and in a few moments i'll be mucking up the week with comedian frances foster , who comedian frances foster, who also gorgeous. also looks gorgeous. >> gorgeous panels today. also looks gorgeous. >> before gorgeous panels today. also looks gorgeous. >> before we jeous panels today. also looks gorgeous. >> before we get s panels today. also looks gorgeous. >> before we get starteds today. also looks gorgeous. >> before we get started , today. also looks gorgeous. >> before we get started , let'sy. but before we get started, let's get the latest news headlines with the gorgeous tamsin with the very gorgeous tamsin roberts . roberts. >> dawn, thank you so much. good

afternoon from the