whose ego has butterworth, whose ego has gotten so big . after he took the gotten so big. after he took the knee on air last week that we've given him some time out . given him some time out. >> yes. and i'm sorry if we look like a bit of a westlife tribute act this evening. lots of white shirts going on, but i'm bringing some colour now. the premise of show is simple. premise of the show is simple. each gets about 60s to each of us gets about 60s to outline argument about our outline our argument about our chosen all in and chosen topic. we all pile in and the starts to fly. of the first starts to fly. of course, as always, we to course, as always, we want to know your views as well. please do in touch emailing gb do get in touch by emailing gb views news, but before we views at gb news, but before we blow it is time for blow the whistle, it is time for your saturday night news with tatiana sanchez . tatiana sanchez. >> emily, thank you and good evening. this is the latest from the newsroom. lawyers representing the families of two of lucy levy's victims have called the independent inquiry into adequate. the government ordered a non—statutory investigation after the former nurses conviction yesterday . nurses conviction yesterday. it'll look at the circumstances surrounding the deaths, including how concerns raised by clinicians were dealt with . the

clinicians were dealt with. the prosecution's key medical expert has told the observer police should investigate hospital bosses for corporate manslaughter, calling them grossly negligent for not acting on fears about lucy's actions. let these actions at the time she was found guilty of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others. she'll be sentenced on monday . a she'll be sentenced on monday. a 50 year old man has been charged with possessing documents or records likely to be useful to terrorists. and the possession of articles for use in terrorism . he'll appear in court on monday. it's in relation to last week's psni data breach, where the details of 10,000 police officers and staff were published online by mistake . published online by mistake. it's after police officers in northern ireland revealed they're also investigating the loss of an officer's laptop and notebook, which fell from a moving vehicle on thursday. that contained details of 42 officers and staff . pakistan police are and staff. pakistan police are seeking to arrest the father of saira sharif in connection to

her murder. the ten year old's body was found at her home in woking last thursday morning after police received a phone call from irfan sharif from pakistan. police believe he travelled to islamabad with sara stepmother, uncle and five children a day before her body was discovered. detectives say she'd suffered extensive injuries over a sustained period of time . criminal gangs have of time. criminal gangs have been condemned by maritime experts for pushing small boats out into the english channel dufing out into the english channel during storm betty. coastguard and border force vessels have been called to deal with reports of migrant boats in the sea in treacherous conditions. at least three were intercepted in uk waters this morning. gb news understands around 100 people were . on board. now, the prime were. on board. now, the prime minister has told the lionesses that the whole nation is rooting for you ahead of tomorrow's world cup final. in a letter , world cup final. in a letter, rishi sunak wished england boss sourav egmond good luck for the final thing . you've made us final thing. you've made us proud. england are taking on

spain, playing to win the trophy for the first time. lauren james, who served a two match suspension following her red card against nigeria, could start tomorrow. meanwhile, the prince of wales apologised prince of wales has apologised for being able to attend for not being able to attend that person . but a that final in person. but a video on social media that he posted. he princess posted. he and princess charlotte wished lionesses charlotte wished the lionesses good just want good luck. lionesses just want to send you a huge good luck for tomorrow. >> we're sorry you can't be there in person, but we're so proud of everything you've achieved the millions you've achieved and the millions you've inspired around the inspired here and around the world. out there tomorrow world. so go out there tomorrow and yourselves. and really enjoy yourselves. good says . good luck, lioness says. >> this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now it's back to the . saturday five. back to the. saturday five. >> yes, it's saturday night and you're with the saturday five. i'm emily carver and we have got quite the show for you lined up tonight. so let's blow the whistle and kick off the first debate. now then darren is going

to tell us why in the wake of lucy conviction , he thinks lucy letby conviction, he thinks serial killers should face serial child killers should face a different fate . take it away. a different fate. take it away. >> yes. so what i'm about to say has gnawed at me all day long. but i do have to issue a warning to listeners and viewers that there will be some distressing language used and themes relating to the murder of infants . picture a scene that infants. picture a scene that i doubt could be even dreamt out by a writer of the most trouble in fiction . the day is august in fiction. the day is august 3rd, 2015. a mothers recovering from a c—section and has produced two angelic baby boys . produced two angelic baby boys. this mother momentarily stepped away in a neonatal unit, leaving her week old twins behind so that she could procure breast milk for them. the setting couldn't be more serene with the father excitedly preparing for their return home. but a soul shattering cry disrupts the

peace as she returns to this intensive care unit and one baby gasping and bleeding her baby gasping, bleeding . the commander gasping, bleeding. the commander nurse in the unit reassures the mother , trust me, i'm a nurse, mother, trust me, i'm a nurse, she says. fast forward manchester crown court, the mother explains to a silent courtroom she was an authority . courtroom she was an authority. i trusted her completely . we i trusted her completely. we then learn that it was this very nurse. this trusted authority, who mortally wounded that precious baby boy by placing a medical tube down his throat with force. now this is but a snapshot of the trial that has disturbed this entire nation. nurse lucy letby slaughtered seven innocent beans as her demeanour in that entire case. chillingly indifferent. any hint of emotion whatsoever . only for of emotion whatsoever. only for a doctor's voice for whom she

was totally infatuated . the was totally infatuated. the wickedness in my eyes is unparalleled . do we, as unparalleled. do we, as taxpayers wish to fund such vile hospitality at his majesty's pleasure .7 a haunting confession pleasure? a haunting confession scribbled on post—its read i killed them on purpose . yes. and killed them on purpose. yes. and the harrowing . i am evil. i did the harrowing. i am evil. i did this in capital letters . now this in capital letters. now britain, i say this in my book. we face a grave question for such malevolence. shouldn't the ultimate punishment be the only punishment that fits such an unspeakable crime ? emily i want unspeakable crime? emily i want to start with you . you have been to start with you. you have been reporting on this. you've read this . i reporting on this. you've read this. i mean, i can think of nothing that i've read in the accounts by the parents who lost babies . anything more troubling, babies. anything more troubling, frankly , that i've read? do you

frankly, that i've read? do you think there is a case to say this should be an option to the courts ? courts? >> well, as you say, it's been deeply disturbing and upsetting to report on and hearing, as you said, from the victims families and from lucy letby herself. are those writings that you showed, those writings that you showed, those post—it notes that showed what an evil crime she committed? i certainly wouldn't shed a tear if she were to pass, let me put it that way. but i don't not support capital punishment, not for this crime , punishment, not for this crime, nor any crime . i don't think nor any crime. i don't think that it nor any crime. i don't think thatitis nor any crime. i don't think that it is the right punishment. i don't think that the state should be able to kill someone due to a crime, however heinous the crime may be. but as i said, i certainly would not shed a tearif i certainly would not shed a tear if she were to pass on string her up. >> i know absolutely no problems with doing it whatsoever. i think actually the only problem would be how slowly we could do

it. in my book, this is the most disgusting crime. i tell you else be strung up in my else needs to be strung up in my book is the people who book as well is the people who worked hospital in worked at that hospital in positions power who covered worked at that hospital in posi thing power who covered worked at that hospital in posi thing up.ower who covered worked at that hospital in posi thing up. theywho covered worked at that hospital in posi thing up. they had covered worked at that hospital in posi thing up. they had numerous this thing up. they had numerous doctors coming to them saying, we this woman is we think that this woman is killing and what killing babies. and what happened? protected her. happened? they protected her. they apologise they made them go and apologise to her. made them go and to her. they made them go and have mediation with have mediation meetings with her. have mediation meetings with hen on have mediation meetings with her. on the her. they put her back on the ward. they took off the ward. when they took her off the ward, they put in a ward, then they put her in a position of safety. it's an absolute died absolute disgrace. babies died because too afraid of because they were too afraid of someone going to air and saying, oh, feel like i'm being oh, i feel like i'm being victimised . victimised. >> agree more on the >> i couldn't agree more on the entire nhs bureaucracy. think entire nhs bureaucracy. i think there's of there's a case there of corporate manslaughter. i think they allowed something to they have allowed something to take they have allowed something to takiwell, one which is going >> well, one of which is going to be investigated. one of the whistleblowers said that the nhs bosses potentially facilitated a mass murderer and the evidence does show that that may well be the case. well, it was the case and the guardian are reporting tonight saying that actually the police are calling for an

investigation they're investigation and they're absolutely should an absolutely should be an investigation . investigation. >> but i guess the question is, is what should the punishment is what should be the punishment for crimes that been for the crimes that have been committed? more with emily committed? i'm more with emily than i am with patrick on this. i support the death i do not support the death penalty any circumstances, penalty in any circumstances, but i do think the strongest possible punishment should be administered for this crime. save the death penalty , solitary save the death penalty, solitary confinement. you know, awful conditions. if we're allowed to do that. but i don't think it is right that any state has the power to decide who lives and who dies. it makes you just make the state just as bad as the murderer. >> i mean, louis, if i can if i can be slightly personal for a second. you're a dad . yeah. do second. you're a dad. yeah. do you look at this case and do you think there should be a special exception made when it's children who have been murdered, when actually in essence, infants , beautiful to babies, infants, beautiful to babies, they're attacked . in that one they're attacked. in that one case, i mentioned many more . we case, i mentioned many more. we have no idea how many. >> look, i agree with you. this case, you know, since becoming a

dad, these i mean, i can't even really read these stories too much. it just it gets to you because you just think, what would you even do if this happened to you? i don't agree with capital punishment because i actually think even though in this instance, it's like, yeah, get rid of it. i don't want my taxes to be spent on this. but capital punishment is a slippery slope. you know, you start with child's 20 years child's killers and 20 years down line you went over your down the line you went over your carbon, you could regulate that there. >> you could literally say it's only for these crimes. >> but i think that also the thing is there are miscarriages of now, probably of justice. now, that's probably not happening but not what's happening here, but if were to legalise that , if we were to legalise that, there would undoubtedly be people put away and people that are put away and killed and then 20 years later, new dna , there would have to be new dna, there would have to be absolute unshakeable proof . absolute unshakeable proof. >> but are you confident of the judicial system that every time capital punishment was administered, that it would be right? i don't trust the state enough to make definitive

decisions . decisions. >> you know what i think i am not confident in this state of british justice right now at all. i think, frankly, far too many people get away with some of the most horrendous things. and actually, really and actually, i'm really worried that woman is going to turn that this woman is going to turn around and allowed to go around and be allowed to go into, a mental hospital. into, say, a mental hospital. but, know what? but, you know, you know what? >> i think one life has to mean life. know, i think i think life. you know, i think i think thatis life. you know, i think i think that is what her punishment should and will no the should be. and it will be no the victims the families, i'm not victims or the families, i'm not sure whether they will feel justice, the justice, whether they the families whether families of the victims, whether they justice. that they will feel justice. but that is want to have is i know i want to have patrick, though, exactly what you said. you just said. >> i want her feel the fear. >> i want her to feel the fear. frankly, i'm going to say it. i want her to feel the fear and anguish that those parents felt when they were watching their children make their arms. >> look, you make a good point. i think in cases like this, i could add another caveat to it, which is if the families of the victims decide that they do want the death penalty punishment, then would go with that. you then i would go with that. you can get another caveat, too,

because i know a lot of people say, don't. there's a lot say, no, i don't. there's a lot of that to of people that managed to forgive people done the forgive people who've done the most heinous things. a lot of people don't someone to people don't want someone to suffer penalty. but suffer the death penalty. but i think should certain think there should be certain crimes victim of crimes that if the victim of that or the families of that crime or the families of the victims of the crime are okay with that death penalty, i will out. will dish it out. >> i do not think it is appropriate for the family of victims be involved victims of crime to be involved in a judge decides. in what a judge decides. a penalty a criminal. penalty will be for a criminal. i think that is a very slippery slope away from a judiciary which works which actually normally works quite well. i don't think families involved families should be involved in deciding though, deciding balance, though, because think thing here because i think the thing here is like justice is people feeling like justice is people feeling like justice is being right. is not being done right. >> if people justice is >> and if people feel justice is not they will take not being done, they will take the it's possible with the law. it's very possible with families involved in families being involved in judges not trusting judges decisions, not trusting people, some of people, but in some sort of factor. >> t e“- f the jury saying >> what about the jury saying having option to say having this option to say actually, this case, actually, i think in this case, the that we've seen the evidence that we've seen over 22 days, was it, patrick, a long time case? >> wouldn't have been all of >> it wouldn't have been all of this evidence. >> we actually think that the ultimate punishment is necessary

here. >> well, juries just decide whether someone is guilty or not. judge decides the not. the judge decides what the punishment be, be able to. punishment would be, be able to. and i don't as i mentioned before, i think the death penalty i would penalty is something i would ever support, even in this circumstance. life should circumstance. but life should mean life, as emily has said. and just a quick one. >> we want to back to >> we don't want to go back to the times people were, you the times where people were, you know, cheering on, people being hung market. just a quick one. >> just a quick one on this before we move on, which is that i you're likely i think you're more likely to get guilty if there is get a guilty plea if there is the threat of a death penalty. i am convinced that lucy letby and others like her have been others like her would have been more to have plead more likely to have plead guilty. to go guilty. and we've not had to go through rigmarole of a through the rigmarole of a trial. victims families wouldn't have to be through it, have to be put through it, etcetera. knew that if etcetera. if she knew that if she guilty, she would have she pled guilty, she would have the penalty removed as the death penalty removed as opposed not guilty opposed to pleading not guilty because knows getting opposed to pleading not guilty bec.anyway. knows getting opposed to pleading not guilty bec.anyway. kn�*her getting opposed to pleading not guilty bec.anyway. kn�*her lawyers etting opposed to pleading not guilty bec.anyway. kn�*her lawyers will] opposed to pleading not guilty bec.asaid|y. kn�*her lawyers will] opposed to pleading not guilty bec.asaid chancesr lawyers will] opposed to pleading not guilty bec.asaid chances aren'tzrs will] opposed to pleading not guilty bec.asaid chances aren't point.l] have said chances aren't point quickly criminal punishments. have said chances aren't point qui�*it's criminal punishments. have said chances aren't point qui�*it's to criminal punishments. have said chances aren't point qui�*it's to deternal punishments. have said chances aren't point qui�*it's to deternalcountryments. have said chances aren't point quit it's to deternalcountry with s. >> it's to deter in country with with death penalty and only with the death penalty and only less crime. >> and that is the argument against don't have to against it is they don't have to move but i'm sure the move on. but i'm sure the

audience is going to have a hell of lot views on that of a lot of views on that particular up next, it's particular topic. up next, it's patrick and he's going to tell us he thinks it's us why he thinks it's a disgrace, that footie fanatic and deputy medical and former deputy chief medical officer tam is officer jonathan van tam is cashing covid. take it cashing in on covid. take it away, patrick. >> i think is >> yes, i do think it is a disgrace that chris whitty is fluffer and of course full time covid jonathan covid fear mongering. jonathan van—tam is now for van—tam is now working for vaccine giants. modern during the pandemic. he was our deputy chief medical officer who is also on the covid task force, which helped to decide which vaccine companies got contracts. moderna was awarded million moderna was awarded 17 million doses , and we were doses initially, and we were told that it was okay for use in the under 30s. jvc was happy to stand to now widely stand next to now widely discredited modelling , which in discredited modelling, which in my view terrified people and made it more likely that they would go out and get a vaccine. he very quick and very he was also very quick and very keen to tell us how effective the vaccines were at stopping the vaccines were at stopping the and the spread the transmission and the spread of the coronavirus crisis, which in turn would have also made it more likely that people would have gone out and got the

vaccine. i believe we've got a little clip of actually , little clip of this actually, what have done is what the vaccines have done is they've now total they've prevented now in total since we got them 22 million cases of covid infection . and cases of covid infection. and 60,000 deaths. >> so you know, that's truly massive . now in the wake of the massive. now in the wake of the oxycontin scandal in america, it is very clear to me at least, that big pharma cares more about profits and selling its product than it does about public health. >> and it is very, very okay with blurring the lines between the regulators and politicians in to order get there. now, it's important to say that jonathan van—tam has not done anything illegal and there's no indication that he's been compromised whatsoever. but for me, and smells me, this looks and smells absolutely terrible . and the absolutely terrible. and the next time that there is a public health and mark my health emergency and mark my words, there will be one. the public, you, me, everyone we know to be absolutely know needs to be absolutely certain . the bloke standing on certain. the bloke standing on that telling you take

that stage telling you to take a vaccine is not going to end up working the company that working for the company that sells in a couple sells those vaccines in a couple of time. those are my of years time. those are my views . i'll toss it over to you. views. i'll toss it over to you. darren. yeah i think the point you on oxycontin is a you made, they on oxycontin is a really important because we really important one because we actually happened really important one because we actua then happened really important one because we actua then where happened really important one because we actua then where the happened really important one because we actua then where the guypened really important one because we actua then where the guy thatd since then where the guy that actually approved oxycontin for use on the market then went on to work for the pharmaceutical company in order to make billions out of selling this product. >> now, people have got so hooked up to that. on opioid that they can barely function as human beings or they've died . human beings or they've died. now, are we comparing the vaccine to opioids? no no, no, i'm not. >> i know i'm not getting golden handshakes, but i'm i'm glad you said that, because it's something i want to make very clear. i'm not comparing the two, but what i am saying is that there is a simple why do why did you why did you come to you together? because there's big that often will look big pharma that often will look at are in positions at people who are in positions of influence and those of political influence and those people positions political people in positions of political

influence decision influence will have a decision making something making power over something that affects i don't affects the public. and i don't think then think those people should then be go and work for be able to go and work for pharmaceutical companies and thatis pharmaceutical companies and that is the similarity. >> don't issue with >> i don't have an issue with jonathan van—tam going to work for moderna. it is. you for moderna. i think it is. you know, are these people that know, what are these people that work services supposed work in public services supposed to after they decide they've to do after they decide they've had enough that job? you had enough of that job? you know, is a man who has know, this is a man who has a distinguished career in science and medical healthcare. i think it's perfectly natural that he would then go to work in the private sector in a company. i don't think. do you think it was right? >> do you think do you think the thing is it's tricky one, because according to reports moderna signed a ten year deal just last year with our government future proof our government to future proof our country for the next pandemic, which involves the sale of 250 million vaccines. so i think it is fine, pretty prudent. >> it is fine for people to question whether there are conflicts between the personal and the business and the governmental here because , you governmental here because, you know, there's money being handed

out. >> there are things he said. what did he say? 200,000 people? yeah, he was he was rattling off a lot of things. >> firstly, how does he know that as patrick said, the modelling was always sometimes out of date, but also sometimes completely off the mark. >> he was very much selling that product. >> it's the next time for me, it's i do completely acknowledge that. it's i do completely acknowledge that . jonathan van—tam seems that. jonathan van—tam seems like a nice enough chap and it doesn't really necessarily say that there's anything that's been compromised here. but for me it would about the next me it would be about the next time, next time there time, the next time that there is thing. i think is a health thing. i think i want to know the bloke is want to know that the bloke is telling me to go and take a medical procedure isn't going to end up working for company. end up working for the company. it's going sell me that it's going to sell me that procedure couple years time. >> well, i've got to say, for me, this is like the least shocking story of year. like shocking story of the year. like politician someone in the politician or someone in the government. over government. he has mates over here and now he's helped them out and he's got nice out and now he's he's got a nice cushy or money coming in. do cushy job or money coming in. do you helped them out? you think he helped them out? well, did in his well, he obviously did in his thing and his role as deputy

chief medical officer, he gave them he set them loads of money. he set those contracts. them loads of money. he set tho he:ontracts. them loads of money. he set tho he didn'tts. them loads of money. he set tho he didn't say was obvious. >> but this is the thing. that's the thing. well, i will say i lead more on up than conspiracy. i can totally see how you were deaung i can totally see how you were dealing with these people day to day they know day pandemics over they know you. oh okay. you. you know them. oh okay. we've a job here. oh, we've got a job over here. oh, okay. i'll come and do okay. well i'll come and do that. you know, that's probably maybe how down, guess. maybe how it went down, i guess. but it be allowed? i just but should it be allowed? i just don't know. but what if he knew that might be coming up? that job might be coming up? >> done hell of a well, >> he's done a hell of a well, good time out i just good time out of it. i just don't buy into this whole conspiracy pharma companies conspiracy that pharma companies are trying are evil and they're all trying to pharma companies. >> didn't say a company. i >> i didn't say a company. i didn't say invented didn't say that invented a vaccine saved millions of vaccine which saved millions of people the world and people around the world and enabled our lives enabled us to live our lives normally in what was a really quite serious global pandemic. did life normally? did you live your life normally? >> god for pharma companies. did you live your life normally? >> okay,)r pharma companies. did you live your life normally? >> okay, look, rma companies. did you live your life normally? >> okay, look, undoubtedly es. >> okay, look, undoubtedly without pharma companies, we were possibly dead were quite possibly all be dead by right? so there is no by now, right? so there is no doubt about that. there is doubt about that. but there is also massive, massive, massive corruption comes pharmaceuticals. >> it all. patrick. how >> stop it all. patrick. how

would you stop this happening? >> well, i say that if >> well, i would say that if somebody has in position somebody has been in a position of a government that of power in a government that has able to or to has been able to procure or to help terms of the rollout of help in terms of the rollout of a particular product, i think it should be a prerequisite of being public official being a public health official that shouldn't then be able that you shouldn't then be able to into is essentially to go into what is essentially a glorified lobbying position . glorified lobbying position. >> then the problem is >> i guess then the problem is that off taking that will put people off taking those it's a tricky one. i those jobs. it's a tricky one. i just hope the british public, you know, were of you know, that were kind of taken in at the time because they were being thrown all of these and of these these models and all of these scare stories can just sometimes these models and all of these scenextories can just sometimes these models and all of these scenext time can just sometimes these models and all of these scenext time maybet sometimes these models and all of these scenext time maybe take1etimes these models and all of these scenext time maybe take atimes these models and all of these scenext time maybe take a step; as next time maybe take a step back like, you know what back and be like, you know what this telling me? but is this guy is telling me? but is he coming the table with he coming to the table with clean he coming to the table with cle.it's a tricky one because it >> it's a tricky one because it was a bit of a sweetheart of the pandemic in many eyes, pandemic in many people's eyes, at least the mainstream media decide those football decide he had those football analogies. was on our screens analogies. he was on our screens nearly day, he? and nearly every day, wasn't he? and he bit of star. there he became a bit of a star. there were about him maybe doing were talks about him maybe doing strictly, sure strictly, although i'm sure those were tongue in cheek. those were were tongue in cheek. but to come but anyway, still to come tonight carver palaver, tonight in the carver palaver, it's tonight in the carver palaver, wsfime tonight in the carver palaver, it's time stop paying the it's time to stop paying the

french the boats. alby french to stop the boats. alby is it's been too is going to argue it's been too long he's seen prince long since he's seen prince willy and up next in willy down under. and up next in oakleys, outrage is it safe to be britain? you're the be gay in britain? you're the saturday five

radio. oh >> welcome back to the saturday five. as always, cheers very much for your emails about tonight's topics on whether child serial killers should get the death penalty . anthony says the death penalty. anthony says when we had the death penalty, there were dramatically fewer murders because it acted as a deterrent. i agree that it should only be used when there is irrefutable evidence that someone is guilty. maggie has the opposite view. she says as much as i'm distressed at letby for killing those babies, i do not support the death penalty. why let her have a quick get out? i'd rather she live a life incarcerated in prison. her freedom lost never to be near baby again and never to be

respected again. now, finally, on christie's kick off, leslie says van tam believed in the vaccine , so why not go and work vaccine, so why not go and work for what he believed in? that would be albee's point . now it's would be albee's point. now it's time for our next debate, though . up it's lewis and lewis . up next, it's lewis and lewis . go on. tell us why after recent homophobic stabbings , recent homophobic stabbings, he's concerned britain is becoming less tolerant. take it away, lewis. >> so britain is undoubtedly one of the best places in the world to be lgbt. i don't think there's any debate about that, but with two gay men having a happy night out with friends with viciously stabbed in a homophobic attack, it has raised some questions and a lot of lgbt people this week have been sharing how they feel they have to tone it down in public. you know that maybe if they are wearing something that has a pride flag on, they put a coat on as they travel to wherever they're going. maybe it's that they're going. maybe it's that they feel comfortable they don't feel comfortable holding hand holding their partner's hand in public. they even public. maybe they even avoid going certain areas for fear going to certain areas for fear of attack statistics will show

us that 64% of lgbt people say that they have experienced a hate crime with just 1 in 8 people reporting it to the police. so i'm asking, is acceptance peaking in the uk ? acceptance peaking in the uk? has there been a change? have we got to the best we're ever going to get to? and are we all paying ourselves a bit too hard on the back? we're thinking that we're one of the most progressive leading countries world. leading countries in the world. is more work to do ? is there more work to do? >> there's always more work to do . but yes, we are one of do. lewis but yes, we are one of the most progressive and accepted accepting countries when it comes to lgbt rights. it is absolutely disgusting what we saw happen. i think it was last weekend in clapham at the two brewers, but but you get a lot of people on twitter saying it's because of channels like this and because of the right wing media that we're seeing this this increase in hate crimes against gay people. and i just i completely disagree. i have not heard a conservative politician say anything homophobic for a

very long time. let's remember , very long time. let's remember, it was the conservative party that introduced same sex marriage into the united kingdom, which has apologised for being homophobic in the past to people in the army issuing formal pardons. so yes, there's more work to be done , but i more work to be done, but i don't think there's ever been a better time to be gay in britain. >> can i just make a quick point on this, which is that i have massive concerns going forward about certain demographics in this country and what that might mean for lgb rights. it appears to me that there is a rapid rate of immigration, both legal and illegal, from certain parts of the world where it is illegal to be gay, where it's considered total blasphemy, where there are no gay rights, where people are executed for being gay. and we don't seem to be doing much about that. i'm not sure what the homophobia is like at the moment, but i don't see it getting better by virtue of us doing that. >> i don't think it's getting better. and i think to your point about changing demographic

, i've a 14 year , you know, i've got a 14 year old and we obviously chats old and we obviously have chats and he's saying, you and stuff and he's saying, you know, being gay still know, well, being gay is still seen as an insult in the playground. and also the generation coming now, generation that's coming up now, i everyone oh, i think everyone thinks, oh, they're they get it they're woke and they get it and they're woke and they get it and they're the they're progressive. the generation that's made andrew tate , you someone tate famous, you know, someone really controversial and i think some the i'm seeing some of the content i'm seeing is like, you know what? i think that it's more so it's that it's now more so it's almost turning . and even this almost turning. and even this year with pride, i feel like i saw more backlash to pride this year than ever. i kind of feel like there is a change in the air. darren, do you not feel that been a bit of a that there's been a bit of a change the air? change in the air? >> there two things. i would >> there are two things. i would say that first of all, on that stubborn think is stubborn front, i think there is pressure, this little conversation about conversation going on about that. you know, that. and actually, you know, the the description the putting out the description of person the police were of the person the police were reticent to do that. i wonder why we're not having the conversation about perhaps certain communities in britain not being comfortable with with gay people or indeed trans people, but the second point i

would make is that i actually think if you're worried about the acceptance of gay people, gay relationship or bisexual people in britain, then you need to advocate splitting off the lgb from the lgbt, x, y, z, or whatever the acronym is these days, because i actually think that the radical identity idea folks who want us to basically accept that biological sex isn't an immutable fact and have you wander into single—sex spaces just because you decide to office all of a sudden? martha i think that's harming the acceptance of gay people because we are grouped in with this radical ism. >> but i mean , the debates >> but i mean, the debates around trans and gender, like i understand, it's an issue of our times. and you know, we're going through that debate . it's not through that debate. it's not a for justification obviously, some of the more horrific attacks that are happening at the moment. can i just say something that i think we're talking about two different

things. >> homophobe , stabbings of these >> homophobe, stabbings of these two men outside a bar has nothing to do with what with the backlash against pride . i don't backlash against pride. i don't think i genuinely do not think those two are necessarily that linked. i think the backlash against pride. yes there will be some homophobic bigots who hate pride because they want to they would like to see no gays exist in this country. yes, there will be people like that. but other people, i think, have got a bit tired of it being an lgbt month . they may not agree with the t in terms of gender. they may be gender critical. for example, they may not agree with drag for children , which of course has children, which of course has beenin children, which of course has been in the news and i don't think those views. so that kind of backlash against pride events has anything to do with the stabbings of these two gay men. >> i think the conversation we're not having enough are what darren patrick raised, which darren and patrick raised, which is about are there certain communities in britain that have more with the lgbt more problems with the lgbt community than others? and the answer is yes, are. you

answer is yes, there are. you know, of course we're to going expect communities who have recently emigrated from countries where gay people face the death penalty. for example , the death penalty. for example, are going to be more homophobic than other communities. of course , communities which are course, communities which are devoutly religious and in those religious, ancient scriptures, it says gays should be, i don't know, stoned or disavowed from society . we can expect people society. we can expect people from those communities to be more homophobic and transphobic , and we shouldn't be scared to have that conversation. so why do why do some people on the left and members of the lgbt community, why do they find it hard to recognise ? because they hard to recognise? because they all think, you know, that the people who are oppressed are all part of the same battle and that black and brown people and gay people are all holding hands and fighting patriarchy . it's fighting the patriarchy. it's not good point. still ahead , >> good point. still ahead, though, going to though, i'll be is going to be back because he's back for more because he's desperate willie down under desperate for willie down under and the carver palaver . it's and in the carver palaver. it's time to stop paying the french. just stop. not stop the bulls.

you're with the saturday five live on . gb news that warm live on. gb news that warm feeling inside from boxed bowyer's proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello there. i'm greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. as we move through into the second part of the weekend, we'll see further showers, particularly across the north—west of the uk and sunny spells towards the southeast. and this area of low pressure still brings in the showers and brisk winds towards the northwest. but further south and east, pressure builds in east, high pressure builds in for rest of the evening and for the rest of the evening and overnight. we have a few overnight. we still have a few showers across northern ireland. parts scotland, 1 or 2 for parts of scotland, 1 or 2 for western parts of england and wales, largely dry for most wales, but largely dry for most of spy's especially of clear spy's skies, especially towards the east of the uk. temperatures overall , generally temperatures overall, generally 15 or 16 celsius in towns and cities, a little lower in the countryside. so a fairly warm start to sunday morning. plenty of sunny spells, a few showers

across western areas. and then as we go through the day, many will have a fine day to come. plenty of sunny spells, just a few showers bubbling up as we move through the afternoon . move through the afternoon. showers frequent across showers most frequent across parts and northern parts of scotland and northern ireland. 1 or of them could be ireland. 1 or 2 of them could be heavy here, still rather breezy around the temperatures around the coast. temperatures reaching 20s, perhaps 25 reaching the low 20s, perhaps 25 towards the far southeast into monday . little change for monday. little change for england and wales. 1 or 2 showers around, though. we will see more persistent rain returning across parts of northern ireland into western scotland as we move through the day. some of rain turning day. some of this rain turning heavy times. the wind heavy at times. the wind starting pick up two and starting to pick up two and temperatures in the low 20s, tuesday and wednesday largely tuesday and wednesday, largely dry. just a few showers in the north temperatures north and temperatures above average that that warm feeling average. that that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers >> proud sponsors of weather on

radio. welcome back to the

saturday five. >> let's have a look at our inbox. what have you been saying on oakley's outrage? mary says, i think the aggression against gays has been exacerbated by the homophobic rhetoric of the trans lobby that any child showing a non stereotype preference needs to be the opposite sex, hence doing away with homosexuality altogether . well, that's an altogether. well, that's an interesting one. steve says people are being stabbed, left, right and centre throughout the land. no matter who you are . land. no matter who you are. well, that's also a good point . well, that's also a good point. now it's time for our next debate. >> yes. up next, it's emily herself, and she thinks we deserve a refund from monsieur macron. it's time for the carver palaver . palaver. >> yes. what precisely are we paying >> yes. what precisely are we paying the french for back in march, the government agreed to send £480 million of our money to the french government to help stop the boats. perhaps if they stop the boats. perhaps if they stop the boats. perhaps if they stop the boats, we might consider this value for money. but what's happened instead?

well, it turns out that the french have actually stopped fewer migrants this year to date than did in the same period than they did in the same period last year . so again, i ask what last year. so again, i ask what exactly are we paying them for? it seems clear to me that the french authorities have little intention nor the application to prevent these dangerous and sometimes deadly crossings . now, sometimes deadly crossings. now, i understand it's not an easy job, but surely the money must be contingent on results. i say if they don't make progress in stopping the boats , then surely stopping the boats, then surely we should get our money back. well there you go. short and sweet . ah, i go on one. former sweet. ah, i go on one. former french ambassador even had the cheek to say the pledge to stop migrants crossing the channel is totally delusional. why bother? then?i totally delusional. why bother? then? i guess if we're totally deluded to even want to stop the boats, the government seems to be addicted to throwing good money after bad, be it the barges , the hotels, the french. barges, the hotels, the french. and it's not good enough. let's remember this is our money, not

theirs . well, there you go. theirs. well, there you go. i think we deserve a refund. and maybe some compensation thrown in to patrick. >> yeah. i mean, surely we know how to get the refund. we just show some form of military force towards the french and watch them scatter. but yeah, we're not going we're not going to get i mean, it's just not just i think you'll find those basic history. but no, i mean , we're history. but no, i mean, we're not going to get a refund. but seriously, should be having a seriously, we should be having a look on we have look at what on earth we have actually been paying for. i mean, not getting mean, we're not getting the results that we would expect from this all. and can i also from this at all. and can i also just say, because the french treat these people than treat these people worse than we do they're perfectly happy do and they're perfectly happy for in absolute for them to live in absolute squalor as abysmal squalor and make it as abysmal as possible and facilitate the transportation people right transportation of people right across the channel and escort them out to guarantee that they are put in a deadly position. by the that why they're all the way, that is why they're all coming the french are not coming here. the french are not our friends this. our friends on this. >> i think we've got a graphic of from tony abbott, who was the former prime minister former australian prime minister who had comment piece in the

who had a comment piece in the telegraph where he said that when official advice emerged that the turn backs might be illegal under the international law, i demanded we seek better advice. a country that can't stop people entering without permission is suffering a form of peaceful invasion. now, his point there was that, frankly, emily, we've rolling over and said right , emily, we've rolling over and said right, come on, president macron, scratch our belly, get our taxpayer teat and milk it dry. >> well, i mean, a former french ambassador did come out this week to say that we're delusional. we're totally delusional. we're totally delusional. we're totally delusional. we were the words for even thinking that we could stop the boats. so that rather shows that, a, they're not that bothered. b, they don't think it's possible. and c, i would ask, why are we paying so much money for no better results than we were getting when we were paying we were getting when we were paying far less to the french outlook? >> i think all that this shows is and recently this week we

also saw the eu say that they didn't want to agree to a returns deal between the uk and the migrants crossing the channeli the migrants crossing the channel i think it shows channel i just think it shows that we have make the rwanda that we have to make the rwanda plan because the europeans that we have to make the rwanda plainot because the europeans that we have to make the rwanda plainot interested; the europeans that we have to make the rwanda plainot interested in1e europeans are not interested in cooperating with us to stop the boats. we've got to look our boats. we've got to look at our alternative options and i am not an advocate for leaving the echr it's not a decision that i would like the government to take lightly. if the europeans lightly. but if the europeans aren't cooperate aren't to going cooperate with us, choice do we have other us, what choice do we have other than to leave the echr change the law and send the migrants to rwanda who crossed the channel illegally? >> i think this situation has been going on for so long, though, and i think that no matter where you are on the argument. right, whether you think we should be letting people them people in and giving them £100,000 in, or £100,000 to settle in, or whether you think that we should be boats be like shooting at the boats or something. it this is not working for anyone. right. okay. these being these people are being trafficked. a nice trafficked. it's not a nice situation. to your situation. but i think to your point like, well, what should point of like, well, what should we the french? so we do about the french? so i looked it up. the statistics are that they they are saying

that they they, they are saying that they they, they are saying that stopped 45% the that they stopped 45% of the crossings. if then pull that crossings. if we then pull that money, got an even money, then we've got an even bigger with. so we bigger issue to deal with. so we have keep paying them. but have to keep paying them. but i do think they have got a vested interest if they actually stop it, then we stop paying them. >> is when >> the problem is, is when they say stop crossings, i'm say they stop the crossings, i'm not if that doesn't mean not sure if that doesn't mean that people have just got that those people have just got on the next day or on a dinghy the next day or a few days later. i don't know if they are actually doing anything with they've with those people once they've stopped that boat from actually, would that you would you measure that if you don't how many don't even know how many crossings place? crossings is taking place? >> well, exactly. >> well, exactly. >> just make a very quick >> can i just make a very quick point, that the thing point, which is that the thing to watch in all of this, whilst we're staring at france, is we're all staring at france, is actually italy, where they have had arrivals had around 200,000 arrivals recently. also got recently. they have also got a right government that's right wing government that's trying with the trying to do a deal with the third nation in tunisia, a bit like do with like we've tried to do with france and said they wanted to stop the boats and it has not been but those been able to happen. but those numbers coming through numbers of people coming through italy heading one they italy are heading one way. they are heading way. and i think are heading our way. and i think it time that went directly it is time that we went directly to italians and try to do

to the italians and try to do something that. something like that. >> tell you what, >> well, i'll tell you what, you'll people on the you'll have people on the streets that all starts to streets if that all starts to come to britain. but we shall see. ahead in albee's see. still ahead in albee's argument , wants know argument, albee wants to know why prince is staying closer why our prince is staying closer to than sydney. hear to sussex than sydney. to hear our lionesses roar. you're with the saturday five live on

gb news. >> welcome back to the saturday five. >> welcome back to the saturday five.thank >> welcome back to the saturday five. thank you for getting in touch by email. sarah says frankly , we are paying the frankly, we are paying the french to give channel migrants a into our country. a free pass into our country. short and sweet. stephen says. your panellists stated these immigrants are being trafficked. they not. they are willingly they are not. they are willingly taking illegal route , but taking this illegal route, but they are paying people smugglers. now it's time for smugglers. but now it's time for our next and final debate . our next and final debate. >> indeed, last but not least , >> indeed, last but not least, it's alby, and he's a bit peeved at the president of the far doing sweet for the lionesses down under . take it away.

down under. take it away. >> i'll be a very simple question for britain. this evening. is prince william sexist for not flying to australia to support the lionesses in the first england final in the world cup since 1966? the answer is yes. let's face it, we all know that if it was the men's final prince william rishi sunak and the entire royal family and british british establishment would be there to support the english lions. so why aren't they there to support the english lionesses ? i put it down to sexism. pure and simple. these women, these amazing women have delivered one of the best sporting results that we have seen in decades. they've inspired millions of girls up and down the nation. you get some people saying perhaps it's because of his carbon footprint. i think that's complete nonsense. he came out earlier on today with a video on instagram that i think we can get for you. but i just didn't think it was good enough. but let's let you decide on that . if let's let you decide on that. if we can get the video lionesses, i want to send you a huge good

luck for tomorrow. >> we're sorry. can't be there in person, but we're so proud of everything you've achieved and the you inspired the millions of you inspired here around the world. here and around the world. so go out there and really out there tomorrow and really enjoy luck, enjoy yourselves. good luck, lionesses , gruel . lionesses, gruel. >> thin, thin gruel . william, >> thin, thin gruel. william, you should be there . like the you should be there. like the queen of spain and princess sofia of spain, who have flown over from spain to australia to go and support the spanish women's team. why can't you fly to down madrid and then hop on the plane with them? it would have been like a family. get together. william from me together. prince william from me together. prince william from me to you. i think your team has made a massive error of judgement on this and it's extremely disappointing that not only have we had to be quite critical of your prince critical of your brother, prince harry, channel now we're harry, on this channel now we're having to be critical of you. i hope lessons are learned from this here, here i'll be. do you think i've been a bit overdramatic? what? >> you know, never . >> you know, never. >> you know, never. >> never. i'll be. never. no. >> never. i'll be. never. no. >> look, i find this very, very

conflicting because i love prince william , and i kind of prince william, and i kind of wish he was king. if the tragedy that would have to unfold for that would have to unfold for that to happen didn't have to happen. but i think he's messed up i do not, because up here. i do not, because i think women's football is particularly great. it lags way behind the men's game. it's not as etcetera, as good a product, etcetera, etcetera, but we are etcetera, etcetera. but we are in we're in a world cup in a final we're in a world cup final. and to say that in any way, shape or form that he's not going because change, going because of climate change, if is being said is a if that what is being said is a lie and everyone can see through that, think it's that, i just don't think it's good i also do think good enough. i also do think actually, from being actually, aside from being future do it's his future king, i do think it's his job really, the president of the fia, you should be there. it should be. i can understand rishi extent, rishi sunak to an extent, because might not want to be because he might not want to be associated failure we associated with failure if we lose. lot of lose. i know a lot of politicians do that. you know what i think might be though? what i think it might be though? quickly. want quickly. he wouldn't want to get booed increasingly booed by an increasingly republican. booed by an increasingly repaussies something, emily. >> you know, you're the resident woman on panel this weekend woman on the panel this weekend and do feel that and every week. do you feel that it case of sexism that the it is a case of sexism that the royals going to support royals aren't going to support the sydney?

the lionesses in sydney? >> well, you know what, i was talking to aidan magee earlier about says, no, about this and he says, oh, no, it's not sexism. it's just that they don't care about as they don't care about it as much. well, why don't they care about as much? possibly about it as much? possibly because the because it's very good. the women's actually i've heard women's well actually i've heard quite people know quite a lot of people who know more than i do more about football than i do say actually it's a very say that actually it's a very different game watch, but different game to watch, but it's interesting fun it's very interesting and fun to watch different ways. yes, watch in different ways. yes, it's little bit slower. it's a little bit slower. >> not as good. i >> it's not as good. well, i don't know because they sounded like telling the truth. >> i'm delighted. you know, what? do you know what, though? prince this prince william, he does this little he could little 15 second video. he could have it a bit longer. have made it a bit longer. >> yeah, it was, to be honest. and he could have had the boy there join in. there to join in. >> darren grimes. >> darren grimes. >> been completely shown >> has he been completely shown up royal family up by the spanish royal family because of spain and because the queen of spain and princess flying princess sofia are flying out and prince william couldn't even be bothered, though he's a be bothered, even though he's a president faa. be bothered, even though he's a pre look, faa. be bothered, even though he's a pre look, i'm faa. be bothered, even though he's a pre look, i'm just aa. be bothered, even though he's a pre look, i'm just not getting my >> look, i'm just not getting my knickers twist, sort of knickers in a twist, sort of speak this. neck is all speak over this. my neck is all twisted. i actually you know, i think we're losing our minds twisted. i actually you know, i thinkthis.�*e losing our minds twisted. i actually you know, i thinkthis. i'vesing our minds twisted. i actually you know, i thinkthis. i've heardjr minds twisted. i actually you know, i thinkthis. i've heard peoples over this. i've heard people saying women's team deserve saying the women's team deserve to be paid same as the men.

to be paid the same as the men. >> i know. hang on a minute. they are, my understanding is. and this, my and don't act me on this, my understanding is that the appearance for women's appearance fee for women's internationals is the same as the gareth the £3,000 saying that gareth southgate should receive exactly the as the england the same salary as the england manager the same salary as the england ma isger the same salary as the england ma is your son quite excited >> is your son quite excited about football, as excited about the football, as excited about the football, as excited about game as he is about the men's game as he is the women's game? you know, i don't think he to be honest. don't think he is, to be honest. >> you know, i think that, >> but you know, i think that, look, men's football is different to the women's football. is. don't football. it just is. you don't get grown crying because get grown men crying because they get tickets go they couldn't get tickets to go and their women's and see their favourite women's team. it is where it is. team. it just is where it is. and i that it will change. and i think that it will change. but right now, the males football is just more, you know, it's got that history, it's it's just got that history, it's got it's got got that emotive stuff, it's got the but i will i do the money. but i will say i do think that he should have gone not because we'll call him sexist doesn't, but i sexist if he doesn't, but i think it's more britain could really use a win right now. so you something is going you know something good is going on here. make on over here. let's go make a big deal. >> why isn't i just don't >> why isn't it? i just don't see isn't it? it makes no see why isn't it? it makes no sense for him not to go prince william, you know, he always has

nice things to say about women's rights talk nice things to say about women's rights things talk nice things to say about women's rights things like talk nice things to say about women's rights things like that. talk about things like that. >> and you know, if they want to show that, they mean it, why not go and support the england women's it just seems you women's team? it just seems you know, i honestly know, i don't think i honestly don't he's sexist don't think he's sexist or anything that. anything like that. >> it's honestly >> i think it's honestly just think terrible advice think this is terrible advice and really bad pr move. and it's a really bad pr move. you know? yeah. and yeah , i just you know? yeah. and yeah, i just think unfortunately we'll think it's unfortunately we'll never saying never know that. you're saying i would hesitate say anything. never know that. you're saying i woufuture tate say anything. never know that. you're saying i woufuture king say anything. never know that. you're saying i woufuture king is say anything. never know that. you're saying i woufuture king is genuinelyng. our future king is genuinely sexist think he's taken sexist. i just think he's taken really advice . really bad advice. >> but is actually true. >> but it is actually true. well, be that william the well, be that william and the king witter on ad nauseum about climate change so it could actually be true that they don't want to go to australia , which, want to go to australia, which, let's not forget, has the same head of state because it's too far away. this is the ludicrousness of the argument and the risk frictions of net zero that were happen to dally around then. >> that would be an argument to say they should never travel anywhere at all and obviously not the case as far as i'm concerned. it is the job of the

royal family in situations like this, if are the this, especially if you are the president the football president of the football association to be supporting an engush association to be supporting an english football team in a world cup final . and think it is cup final. and i think it is disgraceful that not a disgraceful that not even a minor royal flying over to minor royal is flying over to support lionesses in what support the lionesses in what could be a world cup win for england tomorrow. >> exactly that if there was even the remote, if england win the tomorrow, there the world cup tomorrow, there will would will be pictures. there would have of our have been pictures of our future. with a world in future. king with a world cup in his hand a load of very his hand and a load of very happy women, and if we'd happy women, right? and if we'd have well, there's not happy women, right? and if we'd have to well, there's not happy women, right? and if we'd have to be fell, there's not happy women, right? and if we'd have to be a.l, there's not happy women, right? and if we'd have to be a picture 's not happy women, right? and if we'd have to be a picture thatt going to be a picture that reigns through eternity of him looking miserable in the stadium is would forgotten is that we would have forgotten that ever there. actually that he was ever there. actually so was a win win for us. so it was a win win for us. >> it was a win win. >> it was a win win. >> i all of with all on >> i think all of with all on a collective note, a cheery note to end it. i think all of were cheer on the lionesses want cheer on the lionesses and want them incredibly well them to do incredibly well tomorrow, of willy tomorrow, regardless of willy being or of the being down under or all of the rest of that, we're all very happy thank you much happy now. thank you very much to guests tonight. next up, to our guests tonight. next up, though, the brilliant leo though, it's the brilliant leo kearse for mark dolan. kearse who's in for mark dolan. cheers for watching. cheers very much for watching.

i'll week. i'll see you next week. >> we. >> we. >> temperatures rising. boxt >> the temperatures rising. boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello there. i'm greg hurst and welcome to your latest news weather forecast . as we move weather forecast. as we move through into the second part of the weekend, we'll see further showers, particularly across the northwest of the uk and sunny spells towards the southeast . spells towards the southeast. and this area of low pressure still brings in the showers and brisk winds towards the northwest. but further south and east, high pressure builds for in the rest of the evening and overnight . we still have a few overnight. we still have a few showers across northern ireland, parts scotland, 2 for parts of scotland, 1 or 2 for western of england and western parts of england and wales, largely most wales, but largely dry for most of clear skies , especially of clear skies, especially towards the east of the uk . towards the east of the uk. temperatures overall, generally 15 or 16 celsius in towns and cities, a little lower in the countryside . so a fairly warm countryside. so a fairly warm start to sunday morning. plenty of sunny spells , a few showers of sunny spells, a few showers across western areas . and then across western areas. and then as we go through the day, many will have a fine day to come.

plenty of sunny spells, just a few showers bubbling up as we move through afternoon . move through the afternoon. showers across showers most frequent across parts scotland and northern parts of scotland and northern ireland. 1 of them could be ireland. 1 or 2 of them could be heavy here, still rather breezy around the coast. temperatures reaching 20s, perhaps 25 reaching the low 20s, perhaps 25 towards the far south—east into monday. little change for england and wales. 1 or 2 showers around, though . we will showers around, though. we will see more persistent rain returning across parts of northern ireland into western scotland as we move through the day. some this rain turning day. some of this rain turning heavy times. the wind starts heavy at times. the wind starts to pick two and temperatures to pick up two and temperatures in low 20s, tuesday and in the low 20s, tuesday and wednesday, dry. wednesday, largely dry. just a few showers the north and few showers in the north and temperatures above average . temperatures above average. >> the temperatures rising . boxt >> the temperatures rising. boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on .

>> good evening. i'm tatiana

sanchez.