or. or or. or or. or. hello and welcome to news sunday. >> i'm emily calvin. and for the next two hours, i'll be keeping you company on tv, online, and digital radio. so coming up this houn digital radio. so coming up this hour, all eyes are on the world cup final as england try to find a way to draw level with spain in the very final minutes. we'll be you up date on be keeping you up to date on that. be going to aidan that. i'll be going to aidan magee one moment. and magee in just one moment. and yet another tory civil war. the home office is set to be split, divided suella braverman and divided as suella braverman and robert argue over the robert jenrick argue over the migration crisis. is this why they're not stopping the boats and hospital bosses are in the firing line as police are urged to investigate those who fail to act over baby killer lucy letby . what can we learn about the nhs bosses who treated letby as the victim.7 i'll ask a psychotherapist then coming up at the end of the hour, france is failing to stop small boat crossings. they've stopped fewer than last year despite £480 million from the uk. should we demand our money back? i'll ask a frenchman what he thinks and

do. get in touch. send us your thoughts on gb views at gb news. tweet me at gb news. but first, let's get the news headlines with . tamsin with. tamsin >> emily, thank you and good afternoon from the gb newsroom. at 1:01, well, the women's world cup has gone to the wire , a nail cup has gone to the wire, a nail biter for england fans watching at home and away. well, let's go live now to our south—west of england. reporter jeff moody, england. reporterjeff moody, who's at ashton gate stadium in bristol. and jeff , what's bristol. and jeff, what's happening ? happening? >> two malaysians are not alive. well it's not good news, is it? >> we're literally in the last few seconds of the game. still could go anyway. i suppose we could go anyway. i suppose we could get a draw, but it's not looking likely. but what i can tell you is that the beers are flowing and it's a great atmosphere. it's having talked to some of the fans here, hello , guys. are you enjoying the game? yeah england aren't

winning, are they ? winning, are they? >> that's a bit of a shame, isn't it? >> yeah . madam what do you >> yeah. madam what do you reckon? to the match? it was very, very intense. >> it's such a shame that i don't think we're going to win. it is . it is. >> i'm not sure what's happened there, but it looks like it might be good news. back to you . a goal , jeff? . a goal, jeff? >> i don't. i don't think so just yet. just there's just a few minutes left of that match. but we will, of course, bring all the analysis when it's finished with aidan magee. well for tv viewers , are we going to for tv viewers, are we going to go to the scene in london, have a look now? >> but as wembley. there you go i >> hundreds hoping they're in the last few minutes that england might be able to pull a goal to equal eyes on the right there hundreds of people also at there hundreds of people also at the fanzone at victoria park and we have just heard it's full time space have won the world

cup final 1—0 lots of disappointed, disappointed fans . no doubt they're at home. and also for those who've flown out in sydney to watch that match would of course bring you, as i said, all that analysis with . said, all that analysis with. aidan magee in just a moment. so 1—0 to spain, very disappointed . and all the children there who who've come out to support the lionesses and no doubt they took there, there'll be lots of disappointment in their camp. also, they were hoping to make history, but it wasn't meant to be. today sarina wiegman side were hoping to bring that cup home as we all were in england. bitter disappointment there says they're on the faces of those fans, not much to say at this point as they're taking in the news that england have lost that world cup final in sydney. more analysis to come on gb news in other news now, the british medical association is calling for hospital managers to be

regulated in a similar way to medical staff. the call comes in the wake of lucy levy's conviction. the bma says it's deeply worrying that consultants who repeatedly raise concerns about the former nurse weren't listened to. letby, who was found guilty of the murder of seven babies in the attempted murder of six others, has indicated she won't attend her sentencing tomorrow . former sentencing tomorrow. former justice secretary robert buckland says she should be forced to listen . forced to listen. >> my suggestion have been to make sure that there was a live link beamed into the cell, either sound or sound and pictures to ensure that letby had nowhere to hide and that she, in effect, has to listen to what the judge is saying about the case and most importantly, the case and most importantly, the victim. personal statements , those impact statements that will really bring home, i think, to the wider world, the appal ing devastating impact of the loss of these innocent children, these innocent babies have had upon dozens of families . upon dozens of families. >> a 50 year old man will appear

in court tomorrow following the major police data breach in northern ireland. he's been charged with possessing documents to be useful to documents likely to be useful to terrorists. it's after the details of 10,000 officers and staff were published online by mistake . police believe the mistake. police believe the information is now in the hands of dissident republicans as a new brit school is set to open in bradford in west yorkshire . in bradford in west yorkshire. the government has confirmed it'll be based on the award winning performing arts brit school in south london. it helped launch the careers of some of britain's best known artists and actors, including adele , amy winehouse and tom adele, amy winehouse and tom holland. schools minister nick gibb says it's an exciting project . project. >> we wanted young people to have the same opportunities in the north of england as they have in the brit school in south london without having to travel all way so this is a all the way south. so this is a school for 516 to 19 year olds specialising in drama dance . the specialising in drama dance. the technical side of and singing and the technical side of theatre production as well. so it's very exciting project. it

should be open 3 or 4 years should be open in 3 or 4 years time . time. >> russia's luna 25 spacecraft has crashed on the moon. a rocket carrying the craft launched on the 11th of august. the country in a space race against india , whose chandrayaan against india, whose chandrayaan three is due to land on the satellite south pole this week. this was moscow's first mission to the moon in 47 years. the failed attempt is a blow to the country, which was hoping to return with the first samples of frozen . water this is gb news frozen. water this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now, though, it's back to . emily >> thank you tamzin. what a disappointment. devastation for the lionesses. they've been sad. if you're just tuning in now, they've just been defeated by they've just been defeated by the spanish in the world cup final with a result of 1—0 to spain . so with me to give us his

spain. so with me to give us his top analysis is sports broadcaster and journalist aidan magee. i was looking forward to, you know, popping the champagne at the start of this show, but alas, it wasn't meant to be. we're so used to being disappointed, aren't we? >> we are. but in truth, emily england was simply not good enough on the day. that's the cold, harsh reality. that's the reality of level reality also of top level sport. sometimes goes for you, sometimes it goes for you, sometimes it doesn't. now women opted to go with the same team that won the semi final. that meant that lauren james, who was a star performer earlier in the tournament but was suspended due tournament but was suspended due to petulant kick out against to a petulant kick out against argentina, against nigeria argentina, so against nigeria rather, in the first knockout stage, she missed stage, it meant that she missed out she was eligible out because she was eligible again the suspension, again following the suspension, she bench. and so, as she was on the bench. and so, as i say, unchanged from the previous match. but previous previous match. but they to me. they just lacked energy to me. there was no conviction in the passing . the movement wasn't passing. the movement wasn't good. looked overrun in good. they looked overrun in midfield, hard really, midfield, which is hard really, because of because it wasn't a lack of numbers that caused the overrunning but it was overrunning by spain, but it was just movement, if you like.

just the movement, if you like. spain just seemed much more accomplished in possession. england in the 15th england hit the bar in the 15th minute. that was lauren hemp. and you thought that maybe galvanise england into doing something different. but then olga carmona 29 minutes a really well—worked goal down the left hand side. lucy bronze had come into she'd vacated into the middle. she'd vacated a space. this is what the top sides do. they the space sides do. they spot the space where england player where the england player had vacated. the play vacated. they switched the play from there was from right to left. there was a massive overload on the left hand side, massive gap and spain scored good a scored a really good goal. was a goal to a to a worthy of goal to win a to a worthy of winning a world cup final in the second half. you can't say the changes weren't bold. they went to brought to four for two. they brought two chloe. kelly two substitutes on chloe. kelly came on who won the euros last year with the winning goal against at wembley and year with the winning goal agcourse, at wembley and year with the winning goal agcourse, lauren at wembley and year with the winning goal agcourse, lauren james,|bley and year with the winning goal agcourse, lauren james,|bley wej of course, lauren james, who we mentioned moment ago. but mentioned a moment ago. but they had impact whatsoever. had no impact whatsoever. there was major was no there were no major chances out for england, chances carved out for england, really. spain missed a really. and spain missed a penalty. have been penalty. it could have been worse england. it took a worse for england. it took a long to realise for long time to realise that for the referee, perso the the referee, sorry, perso the american make the decision. the referee, sorry, perso the ameri(leads make the decision. the referee, sorry, perso the ameri(leads you e the decision. the referee, sorry, perso the ameri(leads you to he decision. the referee, sorry, perso the ameri(leads you to think cision. the referee, sorry, perso the ameri(leads you to think via)n. the referee, sorry, perso the ameri(leads you to think via var which leads you to think via var that was probably the on that it was probably the on

field decision was probably right, as penalty, but it right, as in no penalty, but it was judged to be handball. but was judged to be a handball. but hermosa missed the penalty. mary up with the up saved it. well even with the 13 of added time, emily 13 minutes of added time, emily england with england didn't do enough with the they were lumping the the ball. they were lumping the ball the opposition ball into the opposition half, which really done which they've not really done earlier tournament . they earlier in the tournament. they were vacating were kind of vacating their principles way, not principles in a way, but not nervous. it was nerves. nervous. i think it was nerves. it was it was fatigue as well. look, it's a long long look, it's a long it's a long tournament. that's the seventh game out in one, two and a half, three weeks. i think it is. so it's marathon. it's the same it's a marathon. it's the same for as well. and have for spain as well. and you have a squad. well, ten, 11 a big squad. well, ten, 11 substitutes the as substitutes on the bench as well. you've that. ijust well. so you've got that. i just wonder whether they'll have regrets because wonder whether they'll have regrewasn't because wonder whether they'll have regrewasn't the because wonder whether they'll have regrewasn't the england ecause wonder whether they'll have regrewasn't the england we'd e that wasn't the england we'd seen earlier the tournament. seen earlier in the tournament. as said quite often over as i've said quite often over the last few days, they tend to get the job done and they didn't get the job done and they didn't get the job done and they didn't get the job done today. but lessons still lessons learned, hopefully still great progress getting to the world that's what world cup final. that's what you'd look with you'd have to look at with the bigger picture. but disappointment day, disappointment on the day, absolute disappointment on the day, absandz course, there was so >> and of course, there was so much made of this final here in this celebrity ,

this country. every celebrity, everyone in the public talking about it, really talking about it . and we haven't spoken about it. and we haven't spoken about women's football that much in previous time it previous years. and this time it really excitement there. really was the excitement there. i we've got pictures on i think we've got pictures on the screen now. i'm not sure where is, we've got where this is, but we've got where this is, but we've got where is it? van park . it's the where is it? van park. it's the box park in london. ah yes. wembley. oh, it's in wembley . wembley. oh, it's in wembley. it's in wembley. so these are people they're watching with their friends, meeting new people . i mean, it really has people. i mean, it really has brought people together and brought people together and brought girls to the sport brought young girls to the sport who hadn't considered who probably hadn't considered it it was a game for it and thought it was a game for seven, 6 or 7 years ago. >> emily, that scene just wouldn't have happened. no, as simple as that. i mean, we saw a bit for the euros last year. one, of course, that was on home soil. but yeah, not seeing soil. but yeah, we're not seeing those those pictures before. that's new ground. that's that's new ground. and i think normal. think that will be normal. i remember happening in the men's game. i remember back euro game. i remember back in euro 96, suddenly started being 96, suddenly pubs started being packed game. it packed watching the game. it became thing it's became a cultural thing and it's never really dissipated. and i think the same. now. think that'll be the same. now. any out and have a any excuse to get out and have a

few beers well, well, exactly. >> any excuse. and it's nice to see that there's lots of men there out cheering. it's not just event that's just a women's only event that's successful tournament. just a women's only event that's successveryournament. just a women's only event that's successveryournant0|t. just a women's only event that's successveryournanto go down >> it's very tough to go down under australia and knock out under to australia and knock out the hosts, of course. and every time they ask questions, they came spain are just a came back. and spain are just a really decent side and they adjusted themselves adjusted and acquits themselves to occasion, to to the day, to the occasion, to the even better than the conditions even better than england is by no england did. but this is by no means a disaster. >> a disappointment. you >> what a disappointment. you know, they know, i really thought they would i don't would win. i mean, i don't i don't have much to back that up. apart from a sense. well, i told you. >> i think i told you they'd win as well. >> eden, you did. eden did tell me were to win when i me they were going to win when i bumped in it. sacked i bumped into aiden this morning. he had the up watching show, the screen up watching the show, making the show making his notes, the show watching football match, watching the football match, making his notes as the professional. is with cup professional. he is with a cup of he said, we were of tea and he said, we were definitely but definitely going to win, but alas, i he said definitely alas, i think he said definitely not 100. but you know, the odds were and sadly, it wasn't were on. and sadly, it wasn't the disappointed, but the case. very disappointed, but you they've done a you know what? they've done a fantastic job of getting to where it's lovely.

where they were and it's lovely. it's lovely see all it's really lovely to see all the support out there the support there was out there for and you know, it's for them. and you know, it's only lots of time to only 1:00. lots of time to celebrate what they've accomplished by accomplished and they've been by decent well. decent side as well. >> let's be fair. >> let's be fair. >> they were beat by the spanish who are a very decent who usually are a very decent team, they? well, team, aren't they? well, there you go, onwards upwards. you go, onwards and upwards. i say. we're going to move to say. now we're going to move to on the world of politics because civil war is reportedly breaking on the world of politics because civiiamong reportedly breaking on the world of politics because civiiamong reportedly once ling on the world of politics because civiiamong reportedly once again, on the world of politics because civil thisng reportedly once again, on the world of politics because civil this time aortedly once again, on the world of politics because civil this time overdly once again, on the world of politics because civil this time over the )nce again, and this time over the small boats crisis. so we're seeing fractures in home fractures appearing in the home office, and office, suella braverman and robert jenrick, the immigration minister over minister are arguing over migration, , migration, over policy, communication, media and so on. tensions have boiled over after small boats. week didn't go the way the government had hoped. yes, remember small boats week it seemed to be car crash after car crash, ending with the horrific tragedy in the channel. so joining me now is gb news political correspondent catherine forster . catherine, catherine forster. catherine, thank you very much indeed . yes, thank you very much indeed. yes, there have been reports out this morning delving into what's been going on in the home office is hardly surprising really. but it

seems there are three camps. there's suella bravermans team, there's robert jenrick team and then there's also the top mandarins . and there seems to be mandarins. and there seems to be a lack of community action. perhaps . perhaps. >> yes, i think lack of communication is possibly putting it rather kindly. emily we know, don't we, that rishi sunak's pledge to stop the boats by the time of the next election is going very badly indeed. currently we heard last week didn't we? how? since he came to office in october last year some 25,000 people have crossed the channel into this way. 25,000 people have crossed the channel into this way . and today channel into this way. and today reports of real civil war within the home office. now the home office is a government department with a vast reach. it's known as being fairly dysfunctional at the best of times. but as you said, three camps, really, the civil servants themselves, then the home secretary suella braverman

supporters and then the immigration minister, robert jenrick, a huge amount of blame being thrown around small boats. week was pretty much a disaster as we know now. suella bravermans, people are saying , bravermans, people are saying, well, i told you not to go ahead with this. what was the point when there were no new announcements? why would you do this? the government wanted to push the fact that actually small boat crossings are down on where they were this time last yeah where they were this time last year. they feel that they are making some progress, but then that was totally undermined , that was totally undermined, wasn't it, by the fiasco really of the bibby stockholm barge? they'd put a handful of migrants on. they'd only been on a couple of days when legionella bacteria was found in the water and they had to be take out. now, suella braverman supporters are blaming the immigration minister, robert jenrick , and also deep divisions jenrick, and also deep divisions in cabinet and in the home office about what they should do

if there plan a to help stop the boats crossing the plan to send people to rwanda does not work. now suella braverman is very gung and she would be up for potentially pulling out of the echr . that's not the position echr. that's not the position that the immigration minister takes. so all in all, a huge mess . and if the department mess. and if the department who's trying to supervise this, who's trying to supervise this, who's trying to make crossing the small boats, you know, these crossings stop, can't agree amongst themselves. no no wonder the policy seems to be in such chaos at the moment. >> it sounds fundamentally, catherine, as if they have totally different priorities when it comes to how to stop the boats and also how to speak to the public, what to announce, what to hand to the press even i'm going to be speaking to charles henry galois later, who's a leader of the francis

generation frexit group, in asking him about the £480 million that's going to the french, because lots of questions coming from tory backbench viewers over where that's where that money is going and why we're not seeing the results. we might expect . but results. we might expect. but can we move on to something rather different because sadiq khan in the once again khan is in the papers once again this morning. there are accusations , as the telegraph accusations, as the telegraph has seen , emails that show that has seen, emails that show that khan may well have tried to silence or at least his team may have tried to silence scientists who questioned some of the claims over ulez do you know about this, catherine? >> yes. so this is in the paper today, the ulez , the ultra low today, the ulez, the ultra low emission zone in london, started in 2009. i mean, initially in central london, only then it was expanded in 2021 to between the north and south circulars. it's due to be expanded again to cover the whole of greater london at the end of this month.

and it has emerged that imperial college , sadiq khan's mayor's college, sadiq khan's mayor's office has paid £800,000 over the last couple of years to imperial college for research on the environmental impact. now it's emerged that they published a couple of years ago research indicating that the original ulez scheme had had very little effect on reducing emissions. in fact, it had cut nitrogen dioxide by less than 3. and so . dioxide by less than 3. and so. the mayor's office had then got in touch with imperial college, say they were very disappointed that this had been published . that this had been published. and of course, the concern of councils around the edge of london that have been trying to get the expansion stopped get the ulez expansion stopped has that this is proof has said that this is proof that, you know, this relationship between the scientists and the mayor's office and that sadiq khan is trying to suppress science

information that is not his advantage. and they personally think that this stinks . think that this stinks. >> yes, it all sounds a little bit too cosy, i'd say. thank you very much indeed for your time, catherine. there are political correspondent down in westminster bringing us up to date on all the latest politics. but in the studio with me is the deputy editor of spiked fraser. now, i want to get your view on both of these topics. hopefully we have time . in terms of the we have time. in terms of the home office, hardly home office, it's hardly surprising, really, that there is in there. suella is a conflict in there. suella braverman very big braverman is a very big character. she has her way of doing things. and then robert jenrick , was the job of jenrick, he was given the job of immigration minister. therefore, he that he he probably thinks that he should be in charge of immigration. and then you have the also deal the civil servants also to deal with. the civil servants also to deal witiyeah, there's two sort of >> yeah, and there's two sort of schools thought emerged here schools of thought emerged here that of fighting out that are sort of fighting out against other. suella against each other. so suella braverman sort braverman is very keen on sort of stopping the boats they of stopping the boats as they arrive kind of thing. she wants arrive kind of thing. she wants a deterrent. she wants to use the rwanda she even the rwanda scheme. she even briefed idea that we could briefed this idea that we could send ascension

send migrants to ascension island in the south atlantic , island in the south atlantic, which isn't government policy, which isn't government policy, which kind of scuppered up their small boats week , whereas robert small boats week, whereas robert jenrick thinks the way to do it is do these kind of is to do these kind of multilateral deals or to do deals with different countries. so announced a deal with deals with different countries. so the nounced a deal with deals with different countries. so the othered a deal with deals with different countries. so the other weekieal with deals with different countries. so the other week tol with turkey the other week to repatriate people, but also to get a grip on some of the criminal gangs and what's interesting is the question of the echr kind of fits in the middle of that, where braverman wants us to get out of the echr if we can't implement the rwanda scheme, whereas generic sees that as detrimental to the uk's image. he says that no, our partners won't want to cooperate with us. essentially, if we go through with that, i think most of the viewers are probably on bravermans side on this one. >> it sounds like suella braverman wasn't particularly happy about the whole small boats week and all these announcements because she seemed to that they weren't big enough. >> yeah, they were able to have one. >> i'm sorry. we're going to have to stop there, but we'll

come back and of come back to that. and of course, because very course, because it's very interesting indeed to see what's going on in office going on in the home office itself maybe itself and why things maybe aren't way we hoped, aren't going the way we hoped, the they planned anyway, the way they are planned anyway, you're listening to you're watching and listening to gb news sunday with me, emily carver. we've more carver. we've got lots more coming today's show. but coming up on today's show. but before let's a look before we do, let's take a look at weather with danny. looks at the weather with danny. looks like up . like things are heating up. >> boxed boilers, proud sponsors of on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> hello . i am dan stroud and >> hello. i am dan stroud and this is your latest gb news forecast from the met office. so we currently have high pressure to the south of the country and further to the north we have this big area of low pressure and that is helping to keep it generally unsettled. the further north and west you are. we currently have thicker cloud with outbreaks of rain pushing in across parts of northern ireland and northwest scotland and further to the south and east across much of england and wales, largely dry. and with those clear skies overnight,

temperatures dipping low enough for some mist and fog patches to actually form by dawn. but these figures, these temperatures largely staying in double figures overnight. so largely staying in double figures overnight . so that's largely staying in double figures overnight. so that's a bright start to monday morning. we have any mist and fog across the extreme south and east, quick to actually lift further to the north. we do have that thicker cloud and rain starting to actually push in during the course of the day across parts of scotland and northern ireland. and the winds will also be freshening up through the irish sea . and with those irish sea. and with those slightly breezier conditions , slightly breezier conditions, despite the fact that these temperatures are higher than the values saw sunday, it will values we saw on sunday, it will feel slightly chillier out there. so on tuesday, that band of cloud and rain will continue to push southwards into england and wales and that changeable theme continues for the rest of theme continues for the rest of the week with temperatures peaking on wednesday. bye for now . how. >> now. >> looks like things are heating up. boxed boilers, proud

sponsors of weather on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> thank you, dan . so up next, >> thank you, dan. so up next, i'll speak to a psychotherapist about what could possibly have led killer nurse letby to commit such horrific crimes and why nhs bosses appeared so eager to suppress whistleblowers and treat letby as the victim. all of that and more to come. i'm emily carver and you're watching and listening to gb news, britain's news .

>> britain's news. channel >> britain's news. channel >> welcome back to gb news sunday with me, emily carver on your tv, online and digital radio. i must say condolences to the lionesses once again, losing 1—0 to spain . a big 1—0 to spain. a big disappointment, but they did a good job in getting there . but good job in getting there. but moving on to one of the top stories of the week, it's been revealed that when doctors warned lucy letby could be a killer, hospital bosses not only failed to act, they even took her side. the sunday times reports that health service managers offered to support her with a master's degree and find her a role at a top children's hospital and made those whistleblowers appealing to her. so why was letby treated like the victim ? joining me now is the victim? joining me now is psychotherapist lucy beresford . psychotherapist lucy beresford. lucy, thank you very much indeed for joining me this afternoon. obviously a tragic, tragic case,

a hideous case, really . obviously a tragic, tragic case, a hideous case, really. i'm quite interested in the psychology of these nhs bosses. it is their job to help manage it is theirjob to help manage the way the hospital runs to make big decisions and presumably to listen when accusations are made, when serious allegations are made within their remit, serious allegations are made within their remit , within their within their remit, within their hospital. why do you think from a psychology perspective, these nhs bosses were so keen to not only sweep it under the carpet , only sweep it under the carpet, but also to treat lucy letby as a victim ? a victim? >> well, the picture is more complicated because we know so little about the individuals concerned. so it could be, for example, that there was a personality clash. there could be different factions within a hospital whereby the managers and the clinicians don't see eye to eye. but there could also be something very beguiling about lucy letby herself that makes

people respond to her in a very sympathetic, a very perhaps protective way. she is 33, but some people have commented about the fact that she doesn't actually look 33. she looks quite young for her age. and what we do know is that colleagues often spoke about how willing she was to come back onto the neonatal unit despite all these traumas happening . and all these traumas happening. and some colleagues took that as a sign of her professionalism and her dedication to the job. so one can imagine that within the very complicated psychological family of a hospital that there are going to be different personalities shining and different personalities strengthening. but what we see is one camp the managers being perhaps much more , much more in perhaps much more, much more in control of a situation rather than the clinicians who perhaps had been sidelined , perhaps to

had been sidelined, perhaps to the detriment of the care in many hospitals . but the detriment of the care in many hospitals. but in this case particularly so , and presumably particularly so, and presumably there may well be there may well have been an instinct from the nhs bosses to protect their organisation , to protect their organisation, to protect their hospital from well, potentially very damaging reputational accusation there. >> so perhaps instinctively they didn't want this type of thing to happen . they didn't believe to happen. they didn't believe it could happen and therefore they were very slow to deal with it . it. >> that may very well be part of the problem that they there were people who weren't trusting their gut instinct or they were being demanding in terms of how much evidence was presented in front of them. and as you say, there could also just be from a professional reputation , professional reputation, personal point of view and a resistance to bringing in the police, for example , although

police, for example, although one would imagine that if you really did want to get to the bottom of something and come out with your reputation enhanced, you would want marshal all you would want to marshal all the resources at your disposal to that that happened. to make sure that that happened. and many cases , that would and in many cases, that would mean bringing in police . if mean bringing in the police. if you were absolutely certain that there problem, then there wasn't a problem, then people beginning to ask people are beginning to ask questions to you wouldn't questions as to why you wouldn't bnng in questions as to why you wouldn't bring in and that bring the police in and that certainly perspective that certainly the perspective that the clinicians had, which is we've really got to get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible because it's disrupting. it's not only leading to tragedy , leading to further tragedy, which to prevent, but which we want to prevent, but it's limiting ability it's also limiting the ability of many of our members of staff to feel that they're being listened to or being heard in this dreadful trauma. >> and lucy , just finally , it >> and lucy, just finally, it seems that lucy letby was able to manipulate those she worked with, at least when it comes to management . she accused the management. she accused the doctors. it's being revealed of finger pointing, claiming she was being wrongly blamed . she

was being wrongly blamed. she seems on the surface , obviously seems on the surface, obviously we don't know exactly what happened, but from the evidence that we have seen, she a manipulative person , able to manipulative person, able to make people feel that she was the victim . the victim. >> that's right . the more we >> that's right. the more we find out about her as an individual, the more intriguing her psychology is and manipulation and the way in which she could get people to believe her side of the story. despite repeated examples of the facts. perhaps not bearing that out is really quite astonishing . and the difficulty is, particularly within organisations , we often speak of organisations, we often speak of sick syndrome, which is where people are not really paying attention or they're not really listening to the evidence , but listening to the evidence, but they're more stuck in their own pre—existing bias. and i my fear thatis pre—existing bias. and i my fear that is that she was able to use

this to the advantage not only in terms of her own activity, that people didn't really suspect her, but also once these murders had taken place and increasingly , they are more and increasingly, they are more and more grotesque , the more one more grotesque, the more one reads about them that actually she was able to give the impression that she was not that person , that she was the angel person, that she was the angel and not the angel of death. that's now some people are calling her. >> yeah, a lot of biases there. she didn't look like a killer on the of it, but we now know the face of it, but we now know that she very much was. thank you very much indeed. lucy beresford psycho beresford there. psycho therapist, the therapist, talking about the very it comes to very latest when it comes to what's been revealed within that nhs hospital and why nhs bosses may not have acted. so up next, i'll see what my panel makes of all that. you're watching and listening to gb news sunday with me. emily carver. but first, let's the news headlines let's get the news headlines with . tamsin with. tamsin >> emily thank you. here are the headunes >> emily thank you. here are the headlines at 133. england have

missed out on world cup glory, losing the final to spain 1—0. well this is the scene at box park in wembley in northwest london where fans gathered to watch the game in sydney on the big screen . the lionesses came big screen. the lionesses came agonising close to becoming the first england senior side to win the trophy since the men's team in 1966. the prince of wales has tweeted, saying they've done themselves and this nation proud . and the prime minister, rishi sunak , said while it wasn't to sunak, said while it wasn't to be, they've already secured their legacy as game changers. well we spoke to some pretty gutted fans in bristol who'd been watching . been watching. >> i still think we're better than the man, basically, and they've made us they've made the nafion they've made us they've made the nation proud . yeah. and they nation proud. yeah. and they give. you could see it right up until the last minute. they give everything so well everything they got so well done, england. i'm feeling a little bit sad because they lost , but they did do really good

and tried really well to go into the final put. >> they deserved more. they could have given more, but at the end of the day, with some many to the final and what's to do in it is the story of the british life . win or lose, get british life. win or lose, get on the booze. we're going to go get on the booze . get on the booze. >> in other news, the british medical association is calling for hospital managers to be regulated in a similar way to medical staff. the call comes in the wake of lucy lepage's conviction. the bma says it's deeply worrying that consultants who repeatedly raised concerns about the former nurse weren't listened to . a 50 year old man listened to. a 50 year old man will appear in court tomorrow following the major police data breach in northern ireland. he's been charged with possessing documents likely to be useful to terrorists. it's after the details of 10,000 officers and staff were published online by mistake . a new brit school is

mistake. a new brit school is set to open in bradford in west yorkshire . the government has yorkshire. the government has confirmed it'll be based on the award winning performing arts brit school in south london. it helped launch the careers of some of britain's best known artists and actors, including adele , amy winehouse and tom adele, amy winehouse and tom holland . well, you can get more holland. well, you can get more on all of those stories by visiting our website, gb news. com .

britain's watching. >> welcome back to gb news sunday with me, emily carver on your tv, online and digital radio. we've migrated to the sofa , so this means i've got sofa, so this means i've got a chance to talk with my panel. so before the break, we were discussing when doctors warned lucy letby could be a killer and the fact that hospital boss is not only failed act, they not only failed to act, they even took her side and even offered good things like offered her good things like a placement at another hospital and they also ordered an apology from those whistleblowers. i want to know, what does this tell us about the processes within the nhs? scarlett what's going wrong when you can have numerous whistleblowers sounding the alarm and they get told essentially to shut up or they'll get into trouble themselves? >> okay. so one of the things i think is that the chief executive who once saw a video of him long before this happened

saying how he would protect his staff and he saw the problem as being a problem of bullying . being a problem of bullying. right. and that that that sort of came down was cascaded down is we've got to stop bullies . is we've got to stop bullies. what i also wonder about is, is the relationship between the consultants and the management. i've dealt with that sort of a thing before. i was at a london hospital where they thought they had a baby killer. and what happened was that a consultant, she told me she held a dead baby in her arms and she thought, this is the second time this has happened. and i'm really worried. so what happened? they did an immediate investigation and they called me in to do the media. the media handling actually, it you know, it was it was a tragedy . but but it was was a tragedy. but but it was a baby. nothing untoward had happened. nothing untoward. but actually, they did the right thing. and the problem is, that's what you have to do is you have to say there's

something wrong and you have to trust a consultant instincts to at least look at it. and i really worry about whistleblowers, whistleblowers , whistleblowers, whistleblowers, not just in the nhs. everyone there have a really, really tough time and they have an equally tough time after they've blown the whistle. >> fraser does this tell us something about our culture or at least within organised nafions at least within organised nations where they were more worried about a potential hr issue , that they treated this issue, that they treated this whole thing if the bullying whole thing as if the bullying was the was the focus? >> yeah , and it's a complete >> yeah, and it's a complete tragedy. it's, you know, putting backside covering above the jobs to protect people's lives. i mean, you know, someone like lucy levy, we're never going to understand what motivated her to do it. i don't think she understands herself. what motivated it. you motivated her to do it. you know, she famously this know, she famously wrote this letter i am evil. i letter saying, i am evil. i killed them . you know, someone killed them. you know, someone who thinks themselves evil is who thinks themselves as evil is a of extraordinary thing to a kind of extraordinary thing to get but we get your head around. but we rely on institutions to put a stop to things, to notice these patterns early on. and when people up for them to be

people speak up for them to be listened to . again, you see this listened to. again, you see this all the time . institutions close all the time. institutions close ranks against criticism rather than taking it on board, rather than taking it on board, rather than at least exploring the possibility that it could have been true. >> yeah, that's exactly the right turn phrase. they right turn of phrase. they closed that does appear right turn of phrase. they cloifed that does appear right turn of phrase. they cloif that's that does appear right turn of phrase. they cloif that's exactly does appear right turn of phrase. they cloif that's exactly what appear as if that's exactly what happened. and it's also a case of self preservation , isn't it? of self preservation, isn't it? scarlet? we can't possibly have these allegations. we must sweep them under the carpet for fear that this reflects badly on our hospital and us. and we have our six figure salaries to protect. >> well, yes, i think i think it's actually i think it's worse than that. and i don't think it's just this particular government. i think it's i think it's been true decades that it's been true for decades that the nhs is a political football . and basically every hospital is kind kindly, i would say encourage. i mean, they are absolutely forced to try and show figures to show how well they're doing and anything that goes wrong is seen as their

fault and actually some years ago under blair, there was there was a an organisation set up ago under blair, there was there was a an organisation setup, i was a an organisation set up, i mean, within the health service to look at what are serious mistakes and, and they reported the press went mad and off because we cannot report serious mistakes saying there have been serious mistakes and this is what we have to do about it. and the problem is that until we understand that mistakes are made loose letby thank goodness , vanishingly small, we can never , ever, ever make things to never, ever, ever make things to make sure there's never another lucy letby . but we can actually lucy letby. but we can actually look at things that go wrong and what we have to understand is mistakes are made and how can we put systems in place. they'll never be perfect. but to try and do it. but until people can admit to making mistakes, you can't do it. >> this is why people are saying that the investigation, the government inquiry at least, should have the power to pull these people in front of the

inquiry they get questioned. inquiry so they get questioned. but it goes to the police investigation will also be doing this. but it's not just the managers are also being managed by the department of health. >> i mean, what we have to understand is this is a systemic thing. and as long as we have the blame culture, well, lots of you have been getting in touch on the topics we've been discussing today, amanda, on the lionesses. >> moving on to a very different subject there. why should the lionesses sing lionesses be obliged to sing god save king the royals save the king when the royals don't them? maybe don't support them? maybe the result have been different result would have been different had they more support. yes had they had more support. yes prince lots of prince william, lots of criticism he didn't turn criticism that he didn't turn up. the of course, up. and the king of course, kathy, what a fantastic kathy, says what a fantastic game lionesses gave. yes, we game the lionesses gave. yes, we wasn't so good at the start, but boy, did we do well in the end. well done, lionesses. we heard in the news bulletins how one lady, she'd had a few lady, i think she'd had a few said or lose, on the said win or lose, we're on the booze. there you go. there's booze. so there you go. there's the attitude. on. the british attitude. crack on. have time. anyway they have a nice time. anyway they did to where they were, did well to get where they were, didn't and on the home didn't they? and on the home office, civil war over migration class, braverman's time is

class, says braverman's time is up. ruthless to up. she's not ruthless enough to stop migrants. stop illegal migrants. well, this difficulty because this is the difficulty because i think jenrick, it seems think robert jenrick, it seems maybe she's a little too maybe think she's a little too ruthless. there's the split ruthless. so there's the split in office and david in the home office and david says, first foremost, says, first and foremost, government ministers should be competent manage the competent enough to manage the civil within their civil servants within their respective to respective departments to deliver the requirements of the manifesto beyond manifesto we voted for beyond doubt. not. they are doubt. they are not. they are incompetent . a mixed bag of incompetent. a mixed bag of views. some frustration , views. there some frustration, some for the lionesses. some delight for the lionesses. keep them coming in. subscribe to our youtube channel and follow socials. we're at follow us on socials. we're at gb news. moving on, a french gb news. so moving on, a french diplomat has said that rishi sunak stopped the boats plan is totally delayed . visionary. totally delayed. visionary. well, there you go. france is stopping fewer migrants crossing compared to the same period last year. compared to the same period last year . the compared to the same period last year. the home compared to the same period last year . the home secretary is, of year. the home secretary is, of course, under huge amounts of pressure to tell the french it's simply enough. so simply not good enough. so should braverman stand up simply not good enough. so sh france braverman stand up simply not good enough. so sh france and braverman stand up simply not good enough. so sh france and potentially stand up simply not good enough. so sh france and potentially demand) to france and potentially demand some of the money back ? so some of the money back? so joining now is leader of joining me now is leader of france's generation frexit group , charles henri galois. there we go. charles, thank you very much

indeed for joining go. charles, thank you very much indeed forjoining me. now now, a lot of people over. thank you very much. a lot of people over here in britain are concerned that the government is sending huge amounts of money, £480 million to the french government to help us solve this problem and to stop boats moving from the french coast across the channel to dover. what is your perspective on this ? hello emily. >> thank you . what i want to say >> thank you. what i want to say is it's not very surprising that the french government is not doing that much about illegal migration because they are not doing that much in all the french borders. so no, we are not really struggling against illegal immigration in france. so i it's quite the same in in the in the channel. if you look at gerald darmanin , it's not at gerald darmanin, it's not someone you can really trust.

maybe you remember the french national stadium with liverpool fans on the big lies. he told gerald darmanin talks a lot. it's the same about illegal or even legal immigration in france. it talks , he talks. but france. it talks, he talks. but then if you look at the figures , you have never been that much legal on illegal immigration in france over the last years. so that's the main issue. i think if we france at the also a good plan and were really about struggling against illegal immigration. there is a very easy plan. all the people that are waiting in calais to go to england are there illegally migrants in a normal country? normally france should send them back to the country. and you you wouldn't have that much people trying to go over the channel >> well, yes , but why aren't why >> well, yes, but why aren't why do you think is a lot of people

think that maybe the french authorities are quite happy to see the migrants who are in calais get on boats to england because then they can wash their hands of the problem. so you see claims of french boats escort eating migrants across the channel to this country. and there is the feeling that maybe it's because they want to essentially rid themselves of the problem . the problem. >> it can be an answer because if you if you remember well, since brexit and the pro—eu government of macron, they have tried to demonise a brexit and maybe it's an easy solution for them to let people go and to say, look , brexit, you cannot say, look, brexit, you cannot take back control of immigration because i'm not doing it in france. of course, within the eu you cannot struggle really against illegal immigration. so maybe it's a way as well for them to blame brexit towards

their ends and to bring a bit of illegal immigration from france to the uk. if it's the case, we can only, you know , say it, but can only, you know, say it, but if it's really the case, it will be it will be a shame and normally a proper government, what what it would do, it would be to struggle first in your own country against illegal immigration. and doing that, it will be a direct struggle and help for the uk to prevent illegal immigrants getting in the uk. yeah >> thank you very much indeed charles henry galois. their leader of france's generation and brexit group. thank you for joining us so reaction. he clearly thinks that france isn't helping us because they're facing exactly the same problem in france and therefore it's almost impossible. fraser to solve this problem. >> yeah, it's also it's not in france. it's interest to solve this problem as as he was suggesting, you know, going from there all these migrant there are all these migrant camps in calais and they'd love them in england instead .

them to be in england instead. and of the attitude and this is kind of the attitude that the whole of the western world is taking to immigration. now to now let's outsource it to somewhere maybe france somewhere else. so maybe france is surreptitiously outsourcing its illegal immigration to the uk. we want to send our illegal migrants rwanda . if you migrants to rwanda. if you land in the you get sent to in the eu, you get sent to turkey. or you know, the turkey. so or you know, the mediterranean is patrolled by the libyan government, not by european governments. so again, we have this issue where we're all kind of outsourcing this problem to someone else rather than kind of taking direct control of our own borders . control of our own borders. >> scarlett, what do you think when you hear from henry when you hear from charles henry there? the french are there? he thinks the french are useless at patrolling their own borders, not going to borders, so they're not going to be to stop boats coming to be able to stop boats coming to the essentially. the uk essentially. >> in your introduction, >> i mean, in your introduction, you french are you said the french actually are stopping boats this year stopping more boats this year than last year. stopping more boats this year than last year . any time you've than last year. any time you've seen report , including from gb seen a report, including from gb news reporters who go along, they say is impossible to they say it is impossible to seriously police that beach and to stop all they're stopping fewer in the january to mid

august this year. >> they've stopped fewer than they did in the same period. >> okay. >> okay. >> so it's not what you'd expect with amount money we're with the amount of money we're throwing problem. throwing at the problem. >> but, but but it >> but but, but, but but it isn't impossible. i mean, i think when he says that it's all about about brexit and you think this problem has been going on for decades. right i mean, there was sandgate in the 90s, right? i mean i mean just they used they used to they used they used to lorries they now go to go on lorries and they now go on boats. there's nothing new. and also when he talks about sending back, six of the sending people back, six of the people, the six people who drowned were afghans. we can't send actually send afghans back. actually really? i mean, the problem with afghans is that we should have got them out legally. is there not illegal migrants there ? not illegal migrants there? refugees? the problem is a lot of those people can never be sent back . and that that that's sent back. and that that that's a problem for france . it's a problem for france. it's a problem for europe. and it's why it's actually massive problem. it's actually a massive problem. but biggest problem and but our biggest problem and i keep on saying it when i come here is that we do not have an

asylum process. so people people get here and then they spend years in hotels costing us millions pounds instead of millions of pounds instead of being processed. and if they're illegal, they sent back. and illegal, they get sent back. and if they're refugees, can if they're refugees, they can then to work. and we are not then get to work. and we are not at the moment, we're spending £6 million day on things that are million a day on things that are ridiculous. the hotels , instead ridiculous. the hotels, instead of actually putting in a decent asylum system and processing these people within weeks, which is what we should do. and if they know they're going to be sent back, that's when they're not going to. well, think it's not going to. well, i think it's more complicated that more complicated than that because system , because the processing system, as is very complicated i >> -- >> you will have the right to appeal. if miss out appeal. so even if you miss out first time, can then appeal appeal. so even if you miss out firslegale, can then appeal appeal. so even if you miss out firslegal aid can then appeal appeal. so even if you miss out firslegal aid iscan then appeal appeal. so even if you miss out firslegal aid is given en appeal appeal. so even if you miss out firslegal aid is given .1 appeal appeal. so even if you miss out firslegal aid is given . lawyers it. legal aid is given. lawyers will in the interests of the will act in the interests of the of the migrant in question. the asylum seeker in question . so asylum seeker in question. so these are very prolonged these things are very prolonged and so it's not as easy. we've never been a big one for deporting people , even if they deporting people, even if they oh, we have on their asylum. >> oh we have oh, i mean we have for years and years and years we

would get through that and not most of them didn't appeal well. fraser well, you know, it's no secret . secret. >> it's no secret that there is ridiculous large backlog . you ridiculous large backlog. you know, this system is failing at every end of it. you know, we're failing to keep people out. we're failing to process people when they arrive . this is bad when they arrive. this is bad news for people who live here. it's terrible news the it's terrible news for the asylum because asylum seekers as well because they're living in limbo. you know, even if they are approved, they might spend a year waiting until they approved, until until they get approved, until they a job, until they they can get a job, until they can move on with their lives that, you know, that leaves people hanging around places, you , it's not conducive to you know, it's not conducive to them integrating into society. so on every level, there is just a failure. >> well, i think for me with the afghan question, if you it would be far fairer to take people from where they are rather than those who managed to pay a people smuggler. thousands and thousands euros. of course , thousands of euros. of course, emily, make it over. >> but we didn't. didn't. >> but we didn't. but we didn't. well, taken afghans . well, we have taken afghans. >> that's not true.

>> that's not true. >> we a few. we took a few. >> we took a few. we took a few. >> we took a few. we took a few. >> how many people would ask how many because there are. >> how many did we employ ? how >> how many did we employ? how many we owe? right? many many do we owe? right? how many did promises to, do you did we make promises to, do you think? did we make promises to, do you thirthousands . >> thousands. >> thousands. >> when i was in afghanistan , >> when i was in afghanistan, there already have been thousands. >> i have to check 2 or 3 to check. >> honestly, honest . we. we know >> honestly, honest. we. we know that we did not get the people that we did not get the people that we did not get the people that we made promises to out. i think there is no question about that problem is that while we can be you know , wanting to help can be you know, wanting to help people from across the world, there is there is a limit. >> scarlett, i come back. you're watching . you're watching. and watching. you're watching. and we'll come back to it. you're watching listening to watching and listening to gb news me, emily news sunday with me, emily kabul news sunday with me, emily kabul. lots more kabul. we've got lots more coming on today's show. but coming up on today's show. but first, the with dan , first, the weather with dan, looks like things are heating up i >> -- >> boxed boilers , proud sponsors >> boxed boilers, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> hello. i am dan stroud and this is your latest gb news

forecast from the metre office. so we currently have high pressure to the south of the country and further to the north we have this big area of low pressure and that is helping to keep it generally under settled. the further north and west you are. we currently have thicker cloud with outbreaks of rain pushing in across parts of northern ireland and northwest scotland. further to the south and east across much of england and east across much of england and wales, largely dry . and with and wales, largely dry. and with those clear skies overnight, temperatures dipping low enough for some mist and fog patches to actually form by dawn. but these figures, these temperatures largely staying in double figures overnight. so largely staying in double figures overnight . so that's largely staying in double figures overnight. so that's a bright start to monday morning with any mist and fog across the extreme south and east, quick to actually lift further to the north. we do have that thicker cloud and rain starting to actually push in during the course of the day across parts of scotland and northern ireland. and the winds will also be freshening up through the irish sea . and with those irish sea. and with those slightly breezier conditions ,

slightly breezier conditions, despite the fact that these temperatures are higher than the values we saw on sunday, it will feel slightly chillier out there . tuesday , that band of . so on tuesday, that band of cloud and rain will continue to push southwards into england and wales. and that changeable theme

well.

hello and welcome to gb news sunday. >> thank you forjoining us this >> thank you for joining us this lunchtime. i'm emily carver. for the next hour, i'll be keeping you company on tv online and digital radio. so coming up, heartbreak sadly for the lioness is as they lost to spain. one nil in the world cup final. we'll bringing you all the we'll be bringing you all the latest that. latest reaction to that. condolences to them, but they did a pretty good job getting there, they? yet there, didn't they? and yet another war. it's another tory civil war. it's been reported that the home office has become fractured and separated three gangs as separated into three gangs as suella braverman and robert jenrick argue over the small boats crisis. then at the end of the hour, more brits think that the hour, more brits think that the younger generation would do better in life by moving abroad rather than staying in the uk. do they have a point and do get in touch? send us your thoughts on gb views at gb news. tweet me at gb news. but before all of that, it's the news headlines with . tamsin emery thank you and

with. tamsin emery thank you and good afternoon from the gb news from it's 2:01 england have missed out on world cup glory losing the final to spain 1—0 the lionesses came agonisingly close to becoming the first england senior side to win the trophy since the men's team in 1966. >> the prince of wales has tweeted, saying they've done themselves and this nation proud. and the prime minister , proud. and the prime minister, rishi sunak, said while it wasn't to be, they've already secured their legacy as game changers. well we spoke to some disappointed fans in bristol. >> i still think we're better than a man, basically . and than a man, basically. and they've made us they've made the nafion they've made us they've made the nation proud. yeah. and they give you could see it right up until the last minute. they give everything they got. so well done, england. i'm feeling a little bit sad because they lost, but they did do really good and tried really well to go into the final put.

>> they deserved more. they could have given more, but at the end of the day , with so many the end of the day, with so many to the final and what's to do in it is the story of the british life. why win or lose? get on the booze. we're going to go get on the booze . on the booze. >> two other news now. the british medical association is calling for hospital managers to be regulated in a similar way to medical staff. the call comes in the wake of lucy letby conviction. the bma says it's deeply worrying that consultants who repeatedly raise concerns about the former nurse weren't listened to. letby, who was found guilty of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others, has indicated she won't attend her sentencing tomorrow. former justice secretary robert buckland says she should be forced to listen. >> my suggestion had been to make sure that there was a live link beamed into the cell, either sound or sound and pictures to ensure that letby had nowhere to hide and that she, in effect, has to listen to

what the judge is saying about the case. and most importantly, the case. and most importantly, the victim . personal statements, the victim. personal statements, those impact statements that will really bring home, i think, to the wider world the appalling, devastating impact of the loss of these innocent children , these innocent babies children, these innocent babies have had upon dozens of families i >> -- >>a50 >> a 50 year old man will appear in court tomorrow following the major police data breach in northern ireland. he's been charged with possessing documents likely to be useful to terrorists . it's after the terrorists. it's after the details of 10,000 officers and staff were published online by mistake . police believe the mistake. police believe the information is now in the hands of dissident republicans. information is now in the hands of dissident republicans . a new of dissident republicans. a new brit school is set to open in bradford in west yorkshire . the bradford in west yorkshire. the government has confirmed it will be based on the award winning performing arts brit school in south london. it helped launch the careers of some of britain's best known artists and actors, including adele , amy winehouse including adele, amy winehouse and tom holland . schools

and tom holland. schools minister nick gibb says it's an exciting project . exciting project. >> we wanted young people to have the same opportunities in the north of england as they have in the brit school in south london without having to travel all way south. so this is all the way south. so this is a school for 516 to 19 year olds, specialised in drama dance . the specialised in drama dance. the technical side of and singing and the technical side of theatre production as well. so it's very exciting project. it should be open 4 years should be open in 3 or 4 years time . time. >> russia's luna 25 spacecraft has crashed on the moon. a rocket carrying the craft launched on the 11th of august. the country in a space race against india , whose chandrayaan against india, whose chandrayaan three is due to land on the satellite's south pole this week. this was moscow's first mission to the moon in 47 years. that failed attempt is a blow to the country , which was hoping to the country, which was hoping to return with the first samples of frozen water. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your

smart speaker. by saying play gb news now it's back to . emily news now it's back to. emily >> thank you very much , tamsin. >> thank you very much, tamsin. now, before we get on to more important political news, the hard hitting stuff, i'd like to get the reaction of my wonderful panel to the unfortunate loss that we have all suffered with the lionesses. i've got scarlett mccgwire here and fraser meyers with me for the rest of the show. scarlett, your reaction ? show. scarlett, your reaction? is it because prince william and rishi sunak didn't bother turning? >> what obviously. i mean, you know, there was nobody to play for. no, i think it's dreadful that they didn't turn up . and we that they didn't turn up. and we know that had it been the men, they would have done. i think it's a real shame. i mean, i think they they they played their hearts out. but actually , their hearts out. but actually, spain did play better. but one of the things i want to say is, is wretched nike, who refused to do a goalkeeper's shirt, i mean

, the english goalie was just fantastic. and the way she saved that penalty was absolutely brilliant. >> she was the star of the show, really, wasn't she? fraser although i'm not sure if you actually watched the match, but you must have heard some of our top analysis from aidan magee. >> i was on my way here >> i did. i was on my way here dunng >> i did. i was on my way here during unfortunately. but during it, unfortunately. but i mean, devastating, isn't mean, it's devastating, isn't it? i mean, one it? it's really sad. i mean, one thing been nice, it's thing that's been nice, it's brought together way brought people together in a way that hasn't had any of the that it hasn't had any of the kind of cultural nonsense that surrounds game. it has surrounds the men's game. it has genuinely quite unifying. genuinely been quite unifying. i don't fraser, don't know about that, fraser, because were going show because we were going to show a clip, but thought, you know, clip, but i thought, you know, maybe miserable maybe a bit miserable considering lionesses lost. >> but there was one commentator who said the first thing he thought when he saw the picture of the lionesses was that there's much diversity there's not much diversity there. so, you know, we still do get some. >> there's always one, isn't there? there's always there's always there? there's always there's alehere's always but good >> there's always one. but good job getting to the final. job for getting to the final. that doesn't happen every day. now civil reportedly now civil war is reportedly breaking out among tory ranks once over the small boats

once again over the small boats crisis. we've got fractures appearing here, there and everywhere in the home office. suella jenrick suella braverman robert jenrick at loggerheads over essentially what to do about migration. what policies to pursue, what to brief to the media, and whether they should be in the media at all. it seems. and tensions have boiled this. the small boiled over this. the small boats week didn't go the way anyone planned , not anyone really had planned, not least suella braverman and robert . so i believe we robert jenrick. so i believe we now have gb news political correspondent catherine foster. catherine, thank you very much indeed. this big split in the home office unsurprising, perhaps, but it's interesting to get a bit more detail on what exactly is going on in there . exactly is going on in there. >> yes , it is, isn't it? of >> yes, it is, isn't it? of course , suella braverman, the course, suella braverman, the home secretary, and robert jenrick, the immigration minister, come from very different wings of the party. suella braverman really is on the right . rishi suella braverman really is on the right. rishi sunak kept her largely her support was part of

the deal to get him into number 10, although in some ways they'd like to move her on. it would be pretty much a nightmare for rishi sunak if she was making trouble on the backbenches. so they need to keep her. meanwhile, the immigration minister, robert jenrick , is minister, robert jenrick, is very much a loyal supporter of rishi sunak and it has emerged in the papers today that there's pretty much civil war in the home office. three camps suella braverman camp , robert jenrick braverman camp, robert jenrick camp and the civil servants themselves and it all seems to have erupted over the fiasco of small boats week. the week before last, which was pretty much a disaster. i mean, we had the farce of the barge . they'd the farce of the barge. they'd only put a dozen or so migrants only put a dozen or so migrants on there. they'd only been for on there. they'd only been for on a couple of days when legionella bacteria was found and they had to be taken off. then only a day or two later, six migrants drowned in the

channel and then late last week it emerged that rishi sunak, since he's been in office, some 25,000 people have crossed the channel illegally . and it really channel illegally. and it really seems like the home office dysfunctional at the best of times, that there's very little agreement on the best approach to take of course, it's complicated . it's a multifaceted complicated. it's a multifaceted issue too. robert jenrick is much more interested in trying to break the criminal, much more interested in trying to break the criminal , the to break the criminal, the smuggling gangs up stream, stop them making the journey in the first place. suella braverman is very much focussed on getting those flights to going rwanda and there's lots of divisions in the conservative party that are once more reigniting because of course this is one of rishi sunak's five key pledges . it's sunak's five key pledges. it's not going very well, sunak's five key pledges. it's not going very well , to put it not going very well, to put it mildly, and you know, if the home office are fighting amongst themselves, what hope do they have of really getting these numbers down significantly

before the next election? >> well, quite, catherine. and just very quickly, there seems to a little bit of to be a little bit of dysfunction, maybe in sadiq khan's london office, too. there are emails that have got into the press. they show that siddiq khan's deputy tried to silence scientists who questioned some of the claims around ulez. what's going on there ? what's going on there? >> yes , this is a story in the >> yes, this is a story in the telegraph today. basically imperial college have been paid over £800,000 in the last couple of years by the mayor of london's team to do research into the environment. the effect of the ultra low emission zone. now it's emerged that a couple of years ago they released findings which indicated that the original ultra low emission zone in central london had had a negligible effect on pollution. that's it had cut nitrogen dioxide by just 3. and the mayor's office had got in touch

with imperial college and said that they were very disappointed that they were very disappointed that this informal version had been released. then there's other emails in dictating how the mayor's office had pretty much leant upon imperial college to put a sort of favourable spin on its research . so it does on its research. so it does really speak to a rather cosy relationship. you might say. and of course the expansion of the ultra low emission zone due to happenin ultra low emission zone due to happen in just over a week to greater london is massively contentious . there are the contentious. there are the cameras are being vandalised all over the place. there's five conservative councils that tried to have this stopped , but at the to have this stopped, but at the moment it's going ahead. but a lot of people are very, very unhappy about this. indeed. >> yes. thank you very much indeed, catherine force. there are political correspondent live from westminster. thank you very much. so with me in the studio is the deputy editor of spike frazer myers and we also have scarlett mccgwire here with us

two. so frazer , let's go on this two. so frazer, let's go on this khan story because obviously ulez is a very controversial policy . we're within days of it policy. we're within days of it coming into effect. the expansion , which is the which is expansion, which is the which is the particularly controversial bit, of course, expanding this further and further out of london. lots of stories have been coming out questioning whether some of the science and the data that sadiq khan has been relying on in his in his press in how he's been relating this to to the the public, questioning it. this to to the the public, questioning it . and then we find questioning it. and then we find out that perhaps they were trying to silence some of the science artists who quite science artists who didn't quite agree with some of their ideas . agree with some of their ideas. >> it's interesting, this ulez is a classic case of what you might call finding policy based evidence . so people always want evidence. so people always want to have evidence based policy. here we have this idea of ulez. they go to scientists and say , they go to scientists and say, give us research that shows give us some research that shows it's a good idea. and then when some scientists dissent , people some scientists dissent, people from the mayor's office send some very angry emails saying you're to going correct this,

let's it out . i mean, even let's sort it out. i mean, even if you read the original paper that sadiq khan used to justify ulez , what that sadiq khan used to justify ulez , what it that sadiq khan used to justify ulez , what it actually says is ulez, what it actually says is that if we reduce nitrogen levels by a significant amount, then over the next 106 years, we might extend our life expectancy by about eight days each . now, by about eight days each. now, that doesn't seem like a very effective policy, and that's the that's the research that khan has been using other research from imperial showed that actually ulez isn't even to going reduce nitrogen levels that much. so probably couldn't even have that effect. so really , everyone knows why this policy has been put in place is because it's to raise for money tfl but khan has made it his own kind of personal thing. he's in a sense it's funny because it's been imposed on him from central government and yet he wants to be the one fronting it. he's written a book called breathe about problems of air about the problems of air pollution in london. he's been on crusade saying pollution in london. he's been on either crusade saying pollution in london. he's been on either you're usade saying pollution in london. he's been on either you're with; saying pollution in london. he's been on either you're with; sayorg that either you're with me or you're on the side of air pollution diseased lungs

pollution and diseased lungs and dead children. >> the interesting point. >> that's the interesting point. frazer scarlett, he very much has tried to this policy frazer scarlett, he very much ha�*if:ried to this policy frazer scarlett, he very much ha�*if you're this policy frazer scarlett, he very much ha�*if you're a this policy frazer scarlett, he very much ha�*if you're a “person icy frazer scarlett, he very much ha�*if you're a “person .:y frazer scarlett, he very much ha�*if you're a “person . you as if you're a good person. you support ulez because you don't want small children to be dying of asthma. and if you're if you're a bad person, then you don't care about those those children. and you just want to drive your filthy car around . drive your filthy car around. >> i have to say, i'm not sure i agree with sadiq on the messaging. i do understand. i mean, i think talking about 100 years or whatever , i mean, years or whatever, i mean, there's certainly and he is one of them that people who suffer badly from asthma do have real problems in inner london. and i live off the holloway road and i do notice the difference. and actually, i went to istanbul and started coughing terribly. and somebody said it's the pollution, of course. and i was actually weirdly , i used to i'm actually weirdly, i used to i'm somebody who had to get rid of my car because of ulez. what's interesting about ulez is you get very cross about it and then it just goes away because now we

do have to remember, i mean, i do have to remember, i mean, i do think they got the messaging wrong because actually most people are not affected . i mean, people are not affected. i mean, that's that's the truth is that nobody's going to be talking about i do agree that about it. i do agree that i think that they should that that it should have been done differently . but as fraser said differently. but as fraser said this was imposed by central government. this wasn't siddiqui's idea. right he just tookit siddiqui's idea. right he just took it up. >> no, not the latest. as i understand it, not this latest controversial expansion that was not ordered by central, the original ulez. >> was there always controversial ? i mean, for those controversial? i mean, for those of us who live in central london and used to drive our cars in central london, it was controversial in central london. i mean, it's just that they're making more of a fuss at the moment. nobody's talking about birmingham or bristol the birmingham or bristol or the other places where actually the government put in millions government has put in millions for scrap. for the scrap. >> are actually talking about >> we are actually talking about that this channel because of that on this channel because of course party as well course the labour party as well rolled back on their proposal, which was in their policy plan to have sort of ulez style

schemes across the country, which as you know, we have in some areas anyway . but they some areas anyway. but they rolled back on this because there's a problem and the extinction rebellion the co—founder of extinction rebellion, he even came out against that that says everything that i feel about extinction on progressive grounds , though he said that grounds, though he said that it's not fair to target people who can least afford to change their cars. and that is what a scrappage scheme is about. >> it's about giving people , >> it's about giving people, giving the poorest people with the worst money coming from those scarlet well, it's coming from city hall. i mean, you know, that actually that and actually the people who are driving really bad cars, very polluting cars. i mean, they're not making themselves well ehhen not making themselves well either. it would be really good if they could get a better call. >> i think a lot of people watching this are just so sick of mr sadiq khan knows best. you're watching and listening to sunday emily. we've sunday with me, emily. we've got lots on today's lots more coming up on today's show. but it's for the all show. but it's time for the all important with dan . important weather with dan. >> looks like things are heating

up. boxed boilers , proud up. boxed boilers, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello. i am dan stroud and this is your latest gb news forecast from the met office. so we currently have high pressure to the south of the country and further to the north we have this big area of low pressure and that is helping to keep it generally unsettled . the further generally unsettled. the further north and west you are . we north and west you are. we currently have thicker cloud with outbreaks of rain pushing in across parts of northern ireland and northwest scotland for further to the south and east across much of england and wales, largely dry . and with wales, largely dry. and with those clear skies overnight temperatures dipping low enough for some mist and fog patches to actually form by dawn. but these figures, these temperatures largely staying in double figures overnight. it largely staying in double figures overnight . it sets a figures overnight. it sets a bright start to monday morning with any mist and fog across the extreme south and east, quick to actually lift further to the

north. we do have that thicker cloud and rain starting to actually push in during the course of the day across parts of scotland and northern ireland. and the winds will also be freshening up through the irish sea. and with those slightly breezier conditions, despite the fact that these temperatures are higher than the values saw on sunday, it will values we saw on sunday, it will feel slightly chillier out there. so on tuesday , that band there. so on tuesday, that band of cloud and rain will continue to push southwards into england and wales. and that changeable theme continues for the rest of theme continues for the rest of the week with temperatures peaking on wednesday . bye for peaking on wednesday. bye for now . how. >> now. >> looks like things are heating up . boxed boilers proud sponsors up. boxed boilers proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> we've got lots more coming up on today's show. why do young people think they'd be better off abroad ? we'll find out. off abroad? we'll find out. we'll speak to an expert on that. and civil war in the home office, all of that and more to

come. i'm emily carver. you're watching and listening to gb news, britain's news

britain's news . channel britain's news. channel >> welcome back to gb news sunday with me, emily carver , my sunday with me, emily carver, my panel on your tv online and digital radio. it has been a bit of a heartbreaking end to the lionesses world cup campaign. they lost the final to spain. one nil. they did put up a bit

of a fight, though. and despite the disappointing result, tributes are pouring in for the england women's side. king charles released a message. charles has released a message. he while i know how sore he says while i know how sore today's result must be, let none of you feel defeated for to have reached the finals at all is an immense tribute to your skill, determination team spirit in determination and team spirit in the finest sporting tradition . the finest sporting tradition. the prince of wales has also posted on social media all the royals are doing it. lionesses you have done yourselves and the nafion you have done yourselves and the nation proud your spirit and drive have inspired so many people and paved the way for generations to come. and we've got the prime minister, he said. you absolute nothing out you left absolute nothing out there, lionesses. it wasn't to be, but you've already secured your legacy as game changers. we are all incredibly proud of you. i wonder if they write these things themselves. joining me now is south—west of england now is our south—west of england reporter who's at reporter jeff moody, who's at ashton stadium in bristol. ashton gate stadium in bristol. jeff, how are people taking the loss? one woman earlier said win or lose, we get on the booze .

or lose, we get on the booze. >> she did indeed. and that's absolutely right . i mean, absolutely right. i mean, they've been getting on the booze since quite early doors, to be honest with you, because, of course, we've got that issue of course, we've got that issue of bars not legally being able to serve alcohol until 11:00, but trying to pass a law that meant that people could drink a little bit earlier and get their dnnks little bit earlier and get their drinks lined up before kick off. there wasn't time for mps to come back from their holidays and pass new legislation, so the police have they'll turn police have said they'll turn a blind so certainly blind eye. so certainly everybody in bristol really everybody here in bristol really enjoyed that illegal drinking hour that they experienced . and hour that they experienced. and then once it was legal and the game began in plenty of hope, which as we know, as the match developed, that hope sort of whittled away. but by the end of it, some people didn't want to speak to me at all because they were so disappointed. but the ones that did are fairly magnanimous. ones that did are fairly magnanimous . this is what they magnanimous. this is what they had say . had to say. >> i still think we're better than man, and than a man, basically, and they've made us made the nation

proud . yeah. and they give you proud. yeah. and they give you could it right up the could see it right up until the last minute. give last minute. they give everything so well everything they got so well done, england. i'm feeling a little bit sad because they lost , but they did do really good and tried really well to go into the final hurt. >> they deserved more. they could have given more, but at the end of the day , with so many the end of the day, with so many to the final and what's to do in it is the story of the british life. win or lose, get on the booze. life. win or lose, get on the booze . we're going to go get on booze. we're going to go get on the booze . the booze. >> and i think that's the whole point. it doesn't really matter whether we win or lose. it's the point is that we've had a really good game . everyone's enjoyed good game. everyone's enjoyed themselves. they've drunk plenty of alcohol and we got through to the final. what can be better than that? well, one thing could be better if we'd won it. >> well, there is that, jeff, but it's nice to see the support remains. no getting to remains. no one's getting to upset or angry with the

lionesses so there you go. there you go. medals, all around. thank you, jeff moody. now joining me is sports broadcaster and journalist aidan magee aden. you think they just weren't up to it ? to it? >> well, no, they weren't. they were clearly not known. well, i wouldn't the wouldn't say nowhere near the mark, were significant, mark, but they were significant, less decent on day than than less decent on the day than than spain, where there's no question about that spain from the about that spain attack from the off didn't change their off england didn't change their team the right team which i felt was the right decision. didn't think it was decision. i didn't think it was right to bring lauren james right to bring in lauren james after two match suspension after a two match suspension because have because i think it would have sent the message to the sent the wrong message to the rest the although ella rest of the squad. although ella toone, who played in her place, didn't really make much difference. affect the game to heavily on the day. and then they conceded the goal after 29 minutes a well—worked minutes and it was a well—worked goal it was what top sides goal but it was what top sides do. spain had possession do. emily spain had possession on right side. they've on the right hand side. they've seen the left seen the space on the left vacated lucy bronze, who been vacated by lucy bronze, who been ordered lost ordered into midfield and lost the they switched to the ball and they switched to play the ball and they switched to play very cleverly from right to left. that created right in left. and that created right in that vacated lucy that space vacated by lucy bronze that, bronze. and then after that, which overloads on the which just overloads on the left hand side olga carmona was

hand side and olga carmona was the, was the player who knocked the, was the player who knocked the net. it was the ball in the net. it was a goal worthy of winning the world cup and half time you cup final and then half time you can't that sarina wiegman can't say that sarina wiegman wasn't that's she's wasn't bold. that's what she's famed she brought on famed for doing. she brought on two chloe kelly one two players. chloe kelly was one of them. she scored the winner in the in the euro final last year against germany at wembley. and lauren year against germany at wembley. and came lauren year against germany at wembley. and came on lauren year against germany at wembley. and came on as lauren year against germany at wembley. and came on as well. lauren year against germany at wembley. and came on as well. butren james came on as well. but again, affected again, neither really affected the are a couple of the game. there are a couple of half chances there was crucial half chances there was a crucial penalty given midway penalty decision given midway through against through the second half against england. seven england. it took about seven minutes that minutes to the side that accounted for 13 minutes of accounted for the 13 minutes of added saw at the end added time. we saw at the end mary earps, had her mary earps, who's had her critics, the goalkeeper earlier in particularly in the tournament, particularly against other day, against australia the other day, and colombia. game before and colombia. the game before that. outstanding that. she was outstanding throughout the game, well worthy of golden glove, of winning the golden glove, having four goals of winning the golden glove, havgame, four goals of winning the golden glove, havgame, she four goals of winning the golden glove, havgame, she saved four goals of winning the golden glove, havgame, she saved foupenalty. all game, she saved the penalty. but enough to but it wasn't enough to galvanise england forward to get that momentum going the that momentum going into the final when flag when final stages when the flag when the up and says 13 the board goes up and says 13 minutes. normally you've not minutes. normally if you've not played only played well and you're only losing nil, that's losing by a goal to nil, that's usually the signal to really have last and it didn't have one last go. and it didn't really that. spain held firm really do that. spain held firm

and i do that on the day i and i do think that on the day i don't think necessarily spain the better side overall. i think on day england could on a different day england could have but on the have won this game. but on the day today on the day. so on the on the day of the big event, spain significantly spain was significantly better noise, supporting noise, disappointing, supporting england, it? noise, disappointing, supporting engrazor it? noise, disappointing, supporting engrazor yeah.t? >> razor yeah. >> razor yeah. >> always sad, but at >> always ends up sad, but at least always get so excited though. >> and there's tremendous support. then always support. and then we're always let down. >> well, as long as, as long as you're at the pub, that's what this is. >> the thing, you know, i feel a bit alarmed by our drinking culture sometimes because had culture sometimes because we had this about where this whole debate about where the pub open at 10 am. the pub should open at 10 am. and be serving shots . and be serving shots. >> scarlet we are a little bit booze obsessed. >> we are completely booze obsessed. we're famous throughout the world for being booze obsessed, but actually today think it was worth it. today i think it was worth it. and i think i think great. and there's going be an awful lot there's going to be an awful lot of people very drunk by of people who are very drunk by now. well just gutted now. well i'm just gutted because forward to because i was looking forward to an to pop open the an excuse to pop open the champagne on this very show on this seat. >> but unfortunately, it wasn't

to be. >> i popped into a pub earlier on paddington for on in paddington just for breakfast, for anything breakfast, not for anything alcoholic, i alcoholic, but i noticed i was with martin daubney, actually one presenters. i noticed one of our presenters. i noticed that the were that some of the tables were reserved. you didn't have a pint with martin? no, no, absolutely not. tempt me not. no, he tried to tempt me because he's had a long run of cheers. but i said, no, i've got to keep professional. i'm to keep it professional. i'm seeing on and with seeing emily later on and with your analysis. your astute analysis. >> thank you very much for remaining sober us. there's remaining sober for us. there's aidan fraser, and aidan magee fraser, nelson and scarlett mccgwire fraser. nelson fraser myers. >> sorry. fraser myers and scarlett mccgwire. >> and listening >> you're watching and listening to sunday emily to gb news sunday with me, emily carver. lots more carver. we've got lots more coming on today's show, but coming up on today's show, but first, let's get the news with . tamsin >> emily thank you. here are the headunes >> emily thank you. here are the headlines at 229. england have missed out on world cup glory, losing the final to spain 1—0. the lionesses came agonisingly close to becoming the first england senior side to win the trophy since the men's team in

1966. the prince of wales has tweeted, saying they've done themselves and this nation proud and the prime minister, rishi sunak, said while it wasn't to be, they've already secured their legacy as game changers. the british medical association is calling for hospital managers to be regulated in a similar way to be regulated in a similar way to medical staff . the call comes to medical staff. the call comes in the wake of lucy letby conviction . the bma says it's conviction. the bma says it's deeply worrying that consultants who repeatedly raised concerns about the former nurse weren't listened to. a 50 year old man will appear in court tomorrow following the major police data breach in northern ireland. he's been charged with possessing document likely to be useful to terror lists. it's after the details of 10,000 officers and staff were published online by mistake . a new brit school is mistake. a new brit school is set to open in bradford in west yorkshire. the government has confirmed it will be based on

the award winning performing arts brit school in south london. it helped launch the careers of some of britain's best known artists and actors , best known artists and actors, including adele, amy winehouse and tom holland . well, you can and tom holland. well, you can get more on all of those stories by visiting our website, gb news. com .

people. channel yeah . yeah. >> welcome back to sunday with me emily carver on your tv, onune me emily carver on your tv, online and digital radio. now lots of you have been getting in touch about the world cup. some of you aren't so excited as others. alan has written in. he says, why do footballers fall to pieces if they don't win these tournaments ? it's like silver tournaments? it's like a silver medal the olympics. they've tournaments? it's like a silver medaisecond olympics. they've tournaments? it's like a silver medaisecond in ympics. they've tournaments? it's like a silver medaisecond in theyics. they've tournaments? it's like a silver medaisecond in the toughest ve come second in the toughest tournament stop tournament in the world. stop weeping. be at your weeping. be elated at your achievements. weeping? achievements. who's weeping? maybe weeping, maybe they are weeping, actually. know, it's actually. but you know, it's emotional, isn't it? actually. but you know, it's emotional, isn't it ? getting emotional, isn't it? getting that far in a competition and then and then losing it right at then and then losing it right at the last, last moment ? it's the last, last moment? it's going to be emotional . the last, last moment? it's going to be emotional. i'm the last, last moment? it's going to be emotional . i'm sure going to be emotional. i'm sure they're not feeling the victims . and tea says . take tom says . and tea says. take tom says take the knee, pay the fee. i don't think anyone was taking the knee at least we will not be heanng the knee at least we will not be hearing about it for decades to come. like 1966, if they had won, well, matthew says no. mark says. he says, congratulations for winning us. our world cup today. for winning us. our world cup today . i'm for winning us. our world cup today. i'm not for winning us. our world cup today . i'm not sure we saw the

today. i'm not sure we saw the results , mark, but perhaps he results, mark, but perhaps he won in his they won in his heart . so there you go. that's very nice . that's very nice. but nice. that's very nice. but we're going to be moving on to something that is rather concerning actually . we're not concerning actually. we're not really seeing a baby boom , are really seeing a baby boom, are we? we're seeing quite the reverse official figures show the number of babies in the number of babies born in england dropped last england and wales dropped last year lowest two year to the lowest level in two decades. the ons says follows decades. the ons says it follows the of decrease the recent trend of decrease live births seen before the pandemic. so joining me now is statistician and political commentator jenkins . commentator jamie jenkins. jamie, thank you very much indeed for joining we spoke indeed forjoining me. we spoke earlier about these stark figures that people figures showing that people simply aren't having enough babies potentially replace babies potentially to replace the population . the population. >> yeah. good afternoon, emily. so basically what you've got is a total fertility rate number which to replace the population. you need 2.1 births for every couple to replace the population. and that has been steadily falling now for decades. the current estimates closer to 1.6. so what that means is over time, the number

of people in britain would fall. but what actually we have been seeing now for quite a while and increasingly in more recent years is increasing in immigration. so we actually needing more immigration to come in because of the lack of birth, not just in the latest figures. this is something that's been going on for a long period of time ultimately when you time because ultimately when you got population like the uk and got a population like the uk and other many countries across the west that are living you west that are living longer, you kind people of that kind of need people of that working age population to kind of do the jobs, to pay the taxes , to of fund looking after , to kind of fund looking after the older people as well. so it's a big conundrum, really. and it's not surprise when you and it's not a surprise when you consider the prices and consider the house prices and how they've gone up how much they've gone up in relation wages over the last relation to wages over the last 25 means kind of 25 years, which means kind of tend to see couples living in kind of a kind of a apart from each other in terms of you can't have the children as much earlier because they don't kind of their first house until of get their first house until a bit and then women are bit later. and then women are generally having their first child well, which means child later as well, which means we children overall.

we have less children overall. >> yeah and it is a concern and >> yeah. and it is a concern and it's actually quite sad because a of women, they're a lot of women, when they're polled say want to have polled say they want to have children they want to have children or they want to have more but the cost of more children. but the cost of living often cited. living is often cited. obviously, need partner as obviously, you need a partner as well. have more and more well. and we have more and more single living alone in single people living alone in this country . single people living alone in this country. so single people living alone in this country . so what single people living alone in this country. so what kind of pronoun policies? that's quite a controversial term sometimes, but what could the government be doing to enable women who do want to have children and men as well, who want to have children, to have them because it's all well and good relying on immigration. but of course , immigration. but of course, migrants get old too. >> no, indeed . i migrants get old too. >> no, indeed. i think migrants get old too. >> no, indeed . i think one of >> no, indeed. i think one of the policies that we do have is that i think child benefit only goes up to two children. so if you've got an average where you need to get more than, say, 2.1 children overall, some people will have zero, some will have one, some will have more. so there's potentially a policy where could look in terms of where you could look in terms of the benefit system. the child benefit system. i think ultimately, it think ultimately, though, it comes to that

comes back down to that affordability and affordability of the housing and the successive governments. now it's not just the conservatives the labour party in the past as well to make well. you've really got to make it affordable so that you know, the other stats that the ons publish, look at publish, where you look at children living with their parents, that's increasing year on, year year , because as we on, year on year, because as we discussed, they can't get out of the home and you only got to go back the ratio of earnings to house prices. so that's when you look at the average price look at the average house price to in 1997 was to earnings back in 1997 was about three and a half. in 2022 is and a half the is eight and a half to the affordability for people to get on housing ladder and then on that housing ladder and then have family is just completely have a family is just completely out of control . yeah, the out of control. yeah, the government needs to get government really needs to get a hold of that bit. >> think yeah, i think so. thank you very much indeed. jamie jenkins there, statistician, statistician political statistician and political commentator on those waning birth rates . fraser, you and commentator on those waning birth rates. fraser, you and i were about the same age. we probably should had kids by probably should have had kids by now were our parents now if we were our parents generation, then yeah, that's true. >> i mean, it's interesting because for decades, environmentalists telling environmentalists were telling us problem was

us that the big problem was overpopulation . there's too many overpopulation. there's too many people being born . it's going to people being born. it's going to starve earth resources , starve the earth of resources, all that, that nonsense. now all that, all that nonsense. now we have the exact opposite issue . this is not just a british problem. this is a global problem. this is a global problem. we are predicted to see a massive increase decrease in the global population. so even they're talking about immigration, how long can that plug immigration, how long can that plug the gap? because it's going to be it's only going to be africa, really. that is to africa, really. that is going to be growing population numbers be growing in population numbers in decades . and also, in the coming decades. and also, you know, the fact is that people want to have children and not having as much children as they would like, which is kind of the opposite problem to what we've had in past, where, we've had in the past, where, you know, it's a very good thing that have birth control that we now have birth control and abortion, which gives and legal abortion, which gives people to people choices, allows them to decide how children they decide how many children they will previously will have because previously they had too many. they might have had too many. but now people aren't having enough. think housing enough. and i think the housing thing is probably critical to that. >> i think there's definitely some to that. some truth to that. >> of course, if you partner >> but of course, if you partner up, have cheaper rent per

up, you'll have cheaper rent per person least. but then person at least. but then there's course, maternity pay person at least. but then ther all course, maternity pay person at least. but then ther all of course, maternity pay person at least. but then ther all of that ;e, maternity pay person at least. but then ther all of that to maternity pay person at least. but then ther all of that to think nity pay person at least. but then ther all of that to think aboutay and all of that to think about paternity all of that where paternity and all of that where people a lot of money people don't have a lot of money to keep themselves while to keep themselves going while while baby. while looking after a baby. scarlett came out scarlett something that came out of statistics is that of these statistics is that foreign born mothers seem to be doing quite well in rearing children. so why would it be that british born mothers aren't cracking on? is this something about being in the more likely to be on the career ladder? maybe. i don't know. yeah >> i mean it is it's something like a third of new babies are born to foreign mothers , which born to foreign mothers, which of course the daily mail did is a disaster. whereas actually without them, where would we be? i mean, i think i think there's a tendency we i mean , for people a tendency we i mean, for people from certain countries, i mean, sort of south south asia for instance, to have larger families from africa, to have larger families . so i think but larger families. so i think but i mean, if we go back to why aren't we doing it? i mean, one of the reasons surely is

childcare is women being worried that they can't actually afford to go back to work, that they that they'll be so they have to they have to think about their career. i mean, and the other is, frankly, the two child rule, which means that if anything goes wrong , you don't get any goes wrong, you don't get any money for the for the third and any more children. so i don't know why that would mean why foreign born mothers wouldn't be so. no, no, no. but i'm talking aboutin so. no, no, no. but i'm talking about in general. i mean i mean foreign born mothers, obviously, they come over here quite young . and come over here and have children and they come over here to make a life and to have a family where has those of us who are born here think very hard about having a family ? about having a family? >> yeah, i think i think i can only speak of my demographic. but yes , a ten, 20 years ago, a but yes, a ten, 20 years ago, a lot more of my friends who

pursued different things , pursued different things, different careers and whatnot probably would have had more. there would be more children kicking around. and i do think it is women putting their careers much put at the at the top of their priority list, not finding a partner until much later . these are all cultural later. these are all cultural things that don't necessarily have anything to do with the cost of living or cost of housing. >> yeah, and i think one cultural thing that's often overlooked is the amount of pressure there is on parents these days to be perfect these days to be the perfect parent. you think about parent. so if you think about give an example of a woman who's a career driven woman, she's supposed have it all. supposed to have it all. she's supposed to have it all. she's supposed have perfect job supposed to have the perfect job and the perfect parent. and be the perfect parent. parents you know, parents are blamed. you know, they're this they're told there's all this nonsense the early nonsense about how the early years to a child's years are critical to a child's development. you know, if you're a mother, you have breastfeed development. you know, if you're a mchild you have breastfeed development. you know, if you're a mchild constantly. breastfeed development. you know, if you're a mchild constantly. you aastfeed the child constantly. you have to constant care or all this stuff, which is, i think a bit a bit but people feel like bit bogus. but people feel like , you know, people have had children world wars. , you know, people have had childre|have world wars. , you know, people have had childre|have hadrorld wars. , you know, people have had childre|have had children s. , you know, people have had childre|have had children doing people have had children doing much than now. you much poorer times than now. you know , relatively, if you're

know, relatively, even if you're struggling in london, struggling to make ends meet, you can't afford your rent. you're still better . off than 99.99999999% of better. off than 99.99999999% of the population who have ever lived . and yet we feel that we lived. and yet we feel that we can't, you know, we're not secure enough to have children. there's a lot of truth to that. >> and i think this is quite controversial, but i think probably quite middle probably quite a lot of middle class people late 20s, probably quite a lot of middle class 30s,yle late 20s, probably quite a lot of middle class 30s, probably late 20s, probably quite a lot of middle class 30s, probably don't 20s, probably quite a lot of middle class 30s, probably don't want early 30s, probably don't want to give up some of their luxuries or niceties. so, for example , you know, taking trips example, you know, taking trips when they like or being able to spend their money on dinners out or , you know, luxuries like that or, you know, luxuries like that . yeah, no, but you get to 38 and you're thinking, oh god, can i still have a kid? you know? >> yes, i know. no, i mean, i was sort of the opposite was that suddenly i got these incredible maternal urges for both my children and i would have done anything to have for even the first one was a complete accident. but the second one was much information . but but i mean, i just think

. but but i mean, ijust think and i like when people when young women say to me, you know, ihave young women say to me, you know, i have a really nice life and particularly those who are married , i mean, there are so married, i mean, there are so many single people who who actually and i think quite reasonable , the opportunities reasonable, the opportunities love the opportunity . but lots love the opportunity. but lots i mean, you're right. i mean, married people say to me, we have a great time. you know, we look our friends with look at our friends with children and think, children and we think, well, maybe not. children and we think, well, ma'i)e not. children and we think, well, ma'i just yt. children and we think, well, ma'i just think a lot of young >> i just think a lot of young women are told that they need to have and they're told have it all and they're told that they need to make it up the career ladder and then they put it off put it off and then, it off and put it off and then, you know, doesn't happen, you know, it doesn't happen, which real shame. is which is a real shame. it is a real because for a lot of real shame because for a lot of people that maternal instinct does get very broody does kick in, get very broody indeed. you have indeed. but lots of you have been getting in touch on the topics we've been discussing today. should today. colin says we should spend paying private spend millions paying a private company with the migrant company to deal with the migrant application backlog. home office civil either refuse civil servants either refuse or incapable this. incapable of dealing with this. well certainly slow, well they're certainly slow, that's says that's for sure. anthony says the have the reason we have such a backlog is not sheer

backlog is not just sheer numbers. it's also because they throw their credentials overboard. that's overboard. well, that's difficult they're difficult to. yes, if they're undocumented, it makes it tricky. says english tricky. john says the english goalkeeper game. goalkeeper determined the game. she didn't send the ball forward. players the forward. players have done the best could, despite not best they could, despite not being ball they being given the ball when they were half. good were in the spanish half. good football there. keep football analysis there. keep your in. subscribe your views coming in. subscribe to youtube follow to our youtube channel. follow us our socials at gb us on all of our socials at gb news. now to finish the show, i want talk about why young want to talk about why young people wish to live abroad. people may wish to live abroad. just up sticks and move because they're not happy with things over here. a poll has shown by yougov found that only 12, 12% of 18 to 24 year olds and 10% of 25 to 49 year olds believe young people would have a better life in the uk. that is quite extraordinary. are they right ? extraordinary. are they right? could it be the right time for the young to flee the nation altogether? joining now is altogether? joining me now is political reem political commentator reem ibrahim . reem, i'm being ibrahim. reem, i hope i'm being quite dramatic there. i do hope that most young people don't want to flee the country , but we want to flee the country, but we are seeing more and more of

this, aren't we? >> we are, emily. and unfortunately , it feels as unfortunately, it feels as though the government want though the government don't want to anything about this. the to do anything about this. the government effectively have allowed buy off those votes allowed to buy off those votes with the triple lock on pensions. done numerous pensions. they've done numerous amount of policies implemented to help the older generation and unfortunately, those haven't translated to young people. we've still got the highest tax burdens in the second world war andifs burdens in the second world war and it's about 37.7% of gdp. the is failing. we're paying scandinavian level tax is for effectively what is it, american pubuc effectively what is it, american public services . and what that public services. and what that means is that young people don't feel as though there is that kind of future in this country. your previous conversation was about trying to start a family young people wouldn't be able to afford , or especially gen zers afford, or especially gen zers we'll able to afford family we'll be able to afford a family because crisis is because the housing crisis is so, so bad . you know, young so, so bad. you know, young people can't afford their own homes. the government are actively restricting supply and that that prices are that means that prices are skyrocketing and effectively

that means that young people are really getting the bad end of the deal. really getting the bad end of the but l. really getting the bad end of the but we want to pit >> but we don't want to pit generations against one another, do you mentioned the do we? you mentioned the pension, triple lock and such things . pension, triple lock and such things. surely pension, triple lock and such things . surely there are things. surely there are policies that could be for the benefit of both the older generations and the younger generations, because i think most older people in this country do very much care about the young. seeing the younger generation get on, start a family, get their own home. it's not necessarily young the old, is it ? is it? >> not necessarily . but >> not necessarily. but unfortunately, i think that when it comes to inequality in this country , it isn't necessarily country, it isn't necessarily a class divide , but there is class divide, but there is a generational divide . and gen z generational divide. and gen z is to going be the first generation in the past 100 years that will be poorer than their parents. and then i think is a huge indictment on the state of the country. and i can't bear to see britain decline now, the general is, this general question is, does this mean that young people are going to the flocking to leave the country flocking their the their numbers? i would say the one that is keeping me one thing that is keeping me here, least, is patriotism.

here, at least, is patriotism. and this country. i and my love for this country. i can't bear to see britain in decline. and want to see decline. and i want to see us move forward towards a freer society and one in which young people are able to actually feel excited the future . but at excited for the future. but at the there isn't those the moment, there isn't those kind prospects. the moment, there isn't those kinywell,rospects. the moment, there isn't those kinywell, thatects. the moment, there isn't those kinywell, that is s. the moment, there isn't those kinywell, that is a good attitude >> well, that is a good attitude to yes, i would hate to to have. yes, i would hate to see our young and most ambitious people in this country going to off dubai to make their money. that would be a real shame because there are more and more people looking at it in australia, of course, and many other countries. thank you very much political much indeed. political commentator ibrahim giving commentator reem ibrahim giving her hot on the fact that so her hot take on the fact that so many young seem to think many young people seem to think that off that they'd be better off elsewhere. you going to, you elsewhere. are you going to, you know, get a flight to dubai know, get on a flight to dubai and millions there with no taxes? >> yeah, i'm leaving just after this . this. >> obviously, there are some really serious kind of structural problems with british economy and that is affecting people of all ages, you know, particularly the lack of wage growth is real, a real scandal.

but often, you know , i think a but often, you know, i think a lot of it's talk a lot of people say, i'm going to leave the country and then never actually bother to do it . you people say bother to do it. you people say that whenever an election doesn't go the right way, for instance , you know, it is good instance, you know, it is good for young people to try going abroad. you there are abroad. you know, there are loads opportunities more abroad. you know, there are loadsthey pportunities more abroad. you know, there are loadsthey have unities more abroad. you know, there are loadsthey have everzs more abroad. you know, there are loadsthey have ever been more abroad. you know, there are loadsthey have ever been to. lore than they have ever been to. yeah, to travel. >> i mean, the best ones to go though, you know, you don't want the maybe they try it out for >> maybe they can try it out for a year then come back. a year and then come back. >> thing is the innovators, >> one thing is the innovators, the doctors mentioned patriotism. >> i think one thing, i've lived abroad. i've lived paris, abroad. i've lived in paris, i've lived berlin and other i've lived in berlin and other places. actually living places. and actually living abroad does make you patriotic because all it's because you realise all the it's all things that all all the small things that all the frustrations that the minor frustrations that build up from these kind of cultural clashes. >> quickly, i've >> so just very quickly, i've already email in saying already got an email in saying i'm of people kicking the i'm sick of people kicking the pensioners to try pensioners they need to try living pounds a year. i living on 9500 pounds a year. i try to avoid putting generations against other for very against each other for this very reason. think i think i think >> no, i think i think i think you're completely i mean, you're completely right. i mean, i it's a generation i think it's not a generation

thing , but actually we do need thing, but actually we do need to something with the young. to do something with the young. i completely agree fraser i completely agree with fraser about there's like about there's nothing like living abroad and i've done it to make you want to come home again. and actually, both my children lived abroad and i think it's fine to go to and as long as as long as we get the good ones back. but i mean, actually it is really tough. i mean, it is terribly tough if you're young and you can't afford to buy a house unless your parents give you an awful lot of money, which i mean, a lot of money, which i mean, a lot of money, which i mean, a lot of it is actually about class. i mean, that's what there's a class divide far more than a generation divide. and it's the people, the people who are really, really badly off who the people who didn't get their a—levels, the people who don't get their gcses, those are the ones that we have to worry about . and they can't go abroad. >> right . >> right. >> right. >> and someone just said we shouldn't worry about the older generation getting more. she'll get there you go. get there. oh, there you go. there go. now lots of you at

there you go. now lots of you at home have been getting in touch on the topics we've been discussing today. phil on the nhs says you have it all wrong about senior about the role of senior management in the nhs. they are not make decisions not there to make big decisions to service. they are to improve the service. they are paid salaries to hush paid large salaries to hush things up and fiddle waiting times. there go. mark things up and fiddle waiting time nhs there go. mark things up and fiddle waiting time nhs managers go. mark things up and fiddle waiting time nhs managers don't mark things up and fiddle waiting time nhs managers don't have to says nhs managers don't have to have background . have a clinical background. managers be mediocre managers that would be mediocre in private sector will find in the private sector will find a paid job in the nhs. a very well paid job in the nhs. the patients come last to the bureaucracy . it's a gravy train bureaucracy. it's a gravy train for white collar workers. well yes, it seems like what happened at that particular cheshire hospital was not acceptable at all. keep your views coming in. subscribe to our youtube channel, but in the studio it is esther mcvey , who i did not esther mcvey, who i did not realise was in. now they're exciting. what have you got coming up? >> just snuck in there. just looking to speak to you. >> well, look, of course we're going to start off with the big football of day coming football story of the day coming operations, for the operations, obviously, for the england and me. i'm england team and me. i'm absolutely gutted. i didn't think would that emotional

think i would get that emotional over but i did . so over that game, but i did. so aidan magee will be comforting me talking about it and then me and talking about it and then you're talking about the lucy letby will having a debate on letby will be having a debate on what took the managers in the nhs so long to do a proper investigation and call the police in? you've seen it. now some doctors are calling for corporate manslaughter charges to be brought against them. so we're looking at that too. also, i will be asking, isn't it time for rishi to unleash his inner thatcher? will the real rishi stand up, come forward and take the country by the scruff of the neck and drive it forward ? we're neck and drive it forward? we're going to be debating is he the man to do it? yes. >> all we seem to know about rishi sunak is that he's a fan of maths, maths for everyone. i want him to speak from the heart, find out who the man is. well, he sums his sums. >> need to add up now for the country, though, don't they? >> stay tuned for esther mcvey. >> she'll be for the next >> she'll be on for the next three hours, i believe. and thank you to scarlett mccgwire

and being my and fraser myers for being my wonderful panellist. that's it from today. thank for from me today. thank you for watching. for watching. thank you for watching. thank you for watching. news sunday. >> temperatures rising. boxt >> the temperatures rising. boxt solar. proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello . i am dan stroud and >> hello. i am dan stroud and this is your latest gb news forecast from the met office. so we currently have high pressure to the south of the country and further to the north we have this big area of low pressure and that is helping to keep it generally unsettled. the further north and west you are. we currently have thicker cloud with outbreaks of rain pushing in across parts of northern ireland and northwest scotland. further to the south and east across much of england and wales, largely dry and with those clear skies over overnight, temperatures dipping low enough for some mist and fog patches to actually form by dawn. but these figures, these temperatures largely staying in double figures overnight. so that's a bright start to monday

morning with any mist and fog across the extreme south and east, quick to actually lift further to the north. we do have that thicker cloud and rain starting to actually push in dunng starting to actually push in during the course of the day across parts of scotland and northern ireland. and the winds will also be freshening up through the irish sea . and with through the irish sea. and with those slightly breezier conditions , despite the fact conditions, despite the fact that these temperatures are higher than the values we saw on sunday, it will feel slightly chillier there. so on chillier out there. so on tuesday, that band of cloud and rain will continue to push southwards into england and wales and that changeable theme continues for the rest of the week with temperatures peaking on wednesday by the temperatures rising. >> boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news the live weather on. gb news the live desk with me, mark longhurst. >> amy pip thompson. >> amy pip thompson. >> it's here monday to friday on gb news news.

>> from midday. we'll bring you the news as it breaks whenever it's happening and wherever it's happening from across the uk and around the world. >> refreshing, feisty , but with >> refreshing, feisty, but with a bit of fun, too . a bit of fun, too. >> if it matters to you, we'll have it covered on tv, radio and online. >> join the

or. or or. or or. or or. or or. 0r— or. or or. or or. or or. or or. or or .

or or. >> hello and welcome to gb news on your tv and on your digital radio. i'm esther mcvey , filling radio. i'm esther mcvey, filling in for nana akua for the next three hours. me plus my panellist will be taking on some of the big topics, hitting the headunes. of the big topics, hitting the headlines . right now, the show headlines. right now, the show is all about opinion mine. there's and yours will be debating , discussing and debating, discussing and definitely disagree . agreeing. definitely disagree. agreeing. join me after 4:00 now. broadcaster and journalist danny kelly and broadcaster and author christine hamilton on and in a few moments we'll go head to headin few moments we'll go head to head in clash of the minds with political commentator and former conservative special adviser claire pearsall and former adviser to jeremy corbyn, james schneider. but before we get started, let's get the latest news headlines from . tamsin news headlines from. tamsin esther , thanks very much and esther, thanks very much and

good afternoon from the newsroom.