rumbles on now . rumbles on now. iain rumbles on now . iain duncan rumbles on now. iain duncan smith has essentially said it's okay for people to vandalise cameras there or thereabouts . cameras there or thereabouts. what do you think? do you agree with that or not? and what is going on in this country when it comes to crime? the absolute state of people running around with machetes. i noticed as well at notting hill carnival, with machetes. i noticed as well at notting hill carnival , the at notting hill carnival, the number of stabbings that took place. some people say now it's time for that carnival to be

cancelled. is it or not? and something i need to get off my chest tonight is something that happened to me on london underground a couple of days ago. i took to twitter to share it, describing the madman that threatened the innocent passengers on the tube, including me, who was with my son, a labour councillor is very unhappy with me , taking me to unhappy with me, taking me to task about using words like madman when describing a violent perpetrator of crime. i reckon that we have got our priorities all wrong in this country when it comes to the victims of crime versus the perpetrators. fair play versus the perpetrators. fair play to her. she's agreed to debate me on tonight's programme, so we've got it all to come with. martin daubney and alan miller. but before we get into it, let's cross to the . news >> michelle, thank you very much and good evening. this is the latest from the newsroom. the prime minister says those hit by new ulez charges shouldn't expect any more financial assistance from the government.

speaking to gb news, rishi sunak said he understands the frustration felt by residents forced to pay a daily charge due to the expansion of the mayor of london's clean air scheme. he also urged the labour party to explain why they it's the explain why they think it's the right to do to go ahead right thing to do to go ahead with the when families are with the plan when families are struggling cost struggling with the rising cost of living. >> this is solely the responsibility of the labour party and the labour mayor sadiq khan and starmer. it's for khan and keir starmer. it's for them to explain think them to explain why they think this right thing to do this is the right thing to do and they should do that. i don't think the right priority. think it's the right priority. people views people have made their views very now it's up to very clear and now it's up to them to explain themselves and very clear and now it's up to thentheyexplain themselves and very clear and now it's up to thenthey think] themselves and very clear and now it's up to thenthey think this mselves and very clear and now it's up to thenthey think this isselves and very clear and now it's up to thenthey think this is thees and very clear and now it's up to thenthey think this is the righti why they think this is the right thing to do. >> judges will be given the power an offender to power to order an offender to attend sentencing hearing attend their sentencing hearing under new legislation planned by the the ministry of the government. the ministry of justice says law will enable justice says the law will enable force to be used necessary . force to be used if necessary. it comes after serial child killer lucy letby refused to attend her sentencing and hear the testimony of her victims families . the testimony of her victims families. hurricane idalia has

made landfall on florida's gulf coast. according to the us national hurricane centre. the storm had intensified to category four, prompting florida's emergency to chief tell residents to drop what you're doing and get to safety. it's now been downgraded to a category two, but remains extremely dangerous. speaking earlier today, governor ron desantis warned residents not to underestimate the danger. >> national hurricane centre expects storm surge to reach up to 16ft in some areas of the big bend region. that level of storm surge is life threatening. do not go outside in the midst of this storm if it's calm where you are , it may be because you you are, it may be because you are in the eye of the storm and those conditions will change very, very quickly . so wherever very, very quickly. so wherever you are, hunker down. >> easyjet's carrying out three days of repatriation flights after an air traffic control fault left thousands of british

tourists stranded abroad. the first from palma and faro are flying into london gatwick while additional flights will take place tomorrow and friday. the airline is also deploying larger aircraft on key routes to accommodate 700 more people. more than a quarter of a million holidaymakers are thought to have been affected by the disruption on james cleverly has become the first foreign secretary to visit china in five years. during the visit, mr cleverly held face to face talks with vice president han geng and told broadcasters the uk's clear eyed that china will not change overnight. mr cleverly also said it's important to maintain regular dialogue as we seek to influence the country. the trip has been met with criticism from some tory mps who want a tougher stance against beijing. former tory party leader sir iain duncan smith told us the government need to decide what it wants from china . it wants from china. >> so this is the real problem . >> so this is the real problem. what are we going over for or is it more business? is it more

trade with them or is it to tell them that unless they get their act together and stop abusing people using slave labour? et cetera, then we won't trade with them. but we're not doing any of that. >> met police commissioner sir mark rowley has welcomed government plans to ban zombie style knives. according to the home office , works underway to home office, works underway to increase the maximum sentence for their importation , for their importation, manufacture, possession and sale to two years. police will also have greater powers to tackle offenders who use them. sir mark said the weapons are doing awful damage in the capital full and finally home sales in the uk are expected to be around a fifth lower this year than last year. property website zoopla found only around a million house sales could be completed and that's the lowest total since 2012. and equates to the average household moving once every 23 years. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news

now it's back to . michelle now it's back to. michelle >> thanks for that. tatiana. i'm michelle dewberry right through till 7:00 tonight. keeping me company. i've got the journalist and former brexit party mep martin daubney and the co—founder of together declaration, alan miller . i've declaration, alan miller. i've not seen you for a long time, but i have seen you popping up. you seem to be all over the place at the moment, doing very well with some of your campaigning and protesting. one of issues ulez i think we of the issues ulez i think we will be touching on that at some point program. that point later in the program. that was can you that was a topic i can tell you that got you all talking last night. so interview with so it did the interview with sadiq i have to say sadiq khan. i have to say i still have questions remaining about sadiq khan's ulez thing around, why is it okay? around, about why is it okay? apparently to use these polluting cars , but only if you polluting cars, but only if you pay polluting cars, but only if you pay it made no sense to me yesterday. i've slept on it . it yesterday. i've slept on it. it still make any to still doesn't make any sense to me today. things are me today. these things are either okay or they're not very odd when basically what you're saying is they're okay as long

as you pay a bit weird. have i missed something? i don't know. you touch and you tell me you get in touch and you tell me you guys are smart cookies. you know what you're on about? gb views. is how get views. gbnews.com is how you get hold email. now hold of me over email. now i want start with a personal want to start with a personal oil story, you will indulge oil story, if you will indulge me on monday, a bank holiday monday returning home from home, i'd visited my family. i got on the london underground with my little boy. you all know i've got a little toddler in a pram when i boarded the tube carriage, i have to say there was a big group of people sucking on whatever. i dread to think what it was in their balloons. and i moved down the passageway or whatever you call it, the platform to get on the london underground at the very end tube doors closed end when the tube doors closed within seconds, it felt like basically it all kicked off this absolute madman on the tube threatened passengers for absolute no reason whatsoever . absolute no reason whatsoever. it was. i have to say, i am quite a tough cookie if i say so myself. but being in that

situation on a packed tube carriage is very, very enclosed . this guy ranting, raving, going up and down the carriage, threatening people. i don't mind admitting i was absolutely petrified side. the main reason i was petrified was i had those images of that awful situation that happened in annecy where that happened in annecy where that guy was going around stabbing children in their prams. and i panicked and i found myself moving my child to get him positioned as far away from this guy as possible, which trust me, was not far because we were there packed in. anyway, i bent over my little boy's pram and this lady crossed. she got off her seat and she came and stood right next to me and she helped me shield my son. and she was shoulder to shoulder with me. and she said to me, don't worry, i'm going to help you . worry, i'm going to help you. we'll look him. and we'll look after him. and i can't even tell how much it can't even tell you how much it touched the whole shook touched me the whole thing shook me over very quickly. me up. it was over very quickly. tube stops for anyone that knows there'll be about two minutes long. was two

long. so it was about a two minute incident. i've been minute incident. but i've been thinking ever since. thinking about it ever since. and took twitter yesterday and i took to twitter yesterday actually to describe my feelings mainly to thank the person involved. i'll just get that tweet back up for you because it popped tweet back up for you because it popped and then it popped up and then it disappeared. i said, the disappeared. and i said, the following tube carriage following of my tube carriage yesterday, madman was yesterday, a madman was threatening passengers. i tried to shield my toddler who was in his pram, and a lady crossed the carriage to alongside carriage to stand alongside me to protect him . luckily, to help protect him. luckily, the did not reach my son, the guy did not reach my son, but it was so scary and i am so grateful to that lady. so thank you. and there you go. i thought that was the end of it, but no, i had a huge response to that tweet, including one from a labour councillor who took me to task about my language. so the first thought wasn't about the safety of me and my two year old son. it was actually about the language that i'd use to describe the perpetrator, she said. the following a better description would have been on a man suffering with mental health problems threatening problems who became threatening towards passengers was

dehumanising someone just continues negative stereotyping towards those with mental health conditions . lions, especially conditions. lions, especially when access to mental health service is limited . well, i've service is limited. well, i've got to say , dear listeners and got to say, dear listeners and viewers, that infuriated me because i feel and i don't know about you that in this society, in this day and age, there seems to be this shift, get away from the victims of crime, away from what's what those guys are experiencing and more towards the perpetrators of crime certainly feels that way to me. so when i saw that tweet, i certainly was not happy. anyway, a little bit of back and forth followed on twitter and i ianed followed on twitter and i invited the lady to join me on my show to actually debate this with me. and i'm pleased to say that she accepted that invitation and joins me down the line as we speak. this is elizabeth roberts . she is elizabeth roberts. she is shrewsbury town councillor. so firstly, thank you very much for taking up my offer to come and

debate me, my first question to you, i guess is upon hearing a story about a lone female travelling with her toddler and being terrified because of an act of violence on the tube why is your first thoughts your primary response to express concern about the language used to describe the perpetrator ? to describe the perpetrator? >> firstly , can i say that >> firstly, can i say that i also commented that i was glad that you and your son were safe, that you and your son were safe, that this lady interjected. yeah, that was your second thought. >> i'm asking you why your first thought was about the perpetrator. >> let me continue, please. and that as a parent that i would feel as worried as you. um, when i was contacted by your program , i was told that you wouldn't be using the fact that i'm a town councillor because i'm talking to you not as a role as a town councillor. my name is elizabeth roberts, not elizabeth . and yes , yes, i did comment . and yes, yes, i did comment with regards to your

inflammatory adjective . right? inflammatory adjective. right? so let me be i work with young people who are autistic . they people who are autistic. they have adhd and other neurological neurological conditions , as neurological conditions, as which deems them very vulnerable. they have approximately between 3 and 5 attempts at mainstream education. and by the time they get to us, they are traumatised and they are struggling . now and they are struggling. now moving on to an adult in society. if they haven't had that support and they and education hasn't supported those for the last 13 years, um then they may well end up very frustrated . now, i would never, frustrated. now, i would never, ever condone anybody's behaviour that you experience . michelle that you experience. michelle that's truly horrific . and i'm, that's truly horrific. and i'm, i'm glad that you are okay and i hope your son is okay and not left with any long lasting issues. my concern is that targeting people that who are vulnerable is a continuation

that's happened over the last couple of years and it's really hard to keep sitting back and listening and reading people saying, well, actually , they're saying, well, actually, they're a mad man. they're nuts . saying, well, actually, they're a mad man. they're nuts. um, they're anything that you portray, obviously that's not the behaviour of somebody that is of clear mind. the behaviour of somebody that is of clear mind . you see, this is of clear mind. you see, this is of clear mind. you see, this is where you see, this is where itake is where you see, this is where i take issue. >> no, no, no, hold on. i've listened to you intensely. have this is where i take an issue. firstly regarding your description a labour description as a labour councillor, that's your description your public description on your public twitter. the account that you're using me. so hence using to contact me. so hence i'm you the that i'm describing you the way that you yourself publicly you describe yourself publicly 0.10.2 be honest , when 0.10.2 i have to be honest, when i look around in society, i am sick and tired of people not having to face responsibility for their actions. personal responsibility seems to have got lost into the aether. yes i concur with you. actually, i share your concern and your frustrations about the lack of mental health support in this country, especially you're

talking about teenagers. i think that things like access to camhs is absolute lutely appalling. and i think many people need to hang their heads in shame when it comes to how we fail. people in society that experienced mental health challenges. so we concur on that. however however, that not what i'm describing. that is not what i'm describing. what i'm describing is my experience of being in a tube scenario, which was absolutely terrifying , dying. and for the terrifying, dying. and for the life of me, i cannot fathom why somebody first response of the left . because it was your first left. because it was your first response. yes. as a secondary point, you did express concern. your first response is to protect the perpetrator. and tell me what i should be using, what descriptive terms i should be using in order to soften my description of this guy who i stand by was an absolute madman. if you want to take that descriptive term and then extrapolate that out to meaning that someone's got mental health issues, i would say that the person then that is kind of criticising and putting everyone

with mental health issues into a basket is you rather than me. because if i drove fast or whatever and hurried around to get somewhere a to b quickly , i get somewhere a to b quickly, i would say, oh god, you know, i travel like a madman to get here. i was rushing around. i was hurried. i wouldn't use that as a term to say that somebody has mental health issue and has a mental health issue and that wouldn't be taken either, because that's not in the same context. >> um, with regards to. but you don't get to tell me the context of my descriptive terms . of my descriptive terms. >> you and this is the issue that i have with people in society now, we are told how to use words and communicate . use words and communicate. >> dating as a town councillor , >> dating as a town councillor, i am communicating one as a person who has great understanding and knowledge of people, young people and adults with neurological conditions that can seem to . be angry in that can seem to. be angry in some cases and not have the right support. um. yes yes. this person should come up , be person should come up, be confronted with consequences .

confronted with consequences. there should be. this is behaviour that is not acceptable . all to frighten general people in such a close environment as the tube is, is very frightening. and i totally agree with that. my point is to use such inflammable language just continues to target our young people and older people who do have mental health conditions . have mental health conditions. if there was at the access to mental health support and this young man had got that , he may young man had got that, he may well not have been on your tube. how do you may have got mental health issues perpetrated? as i said, i'm not condoning the his behaviour. how do you know he's got mental health issues right? access and the right funding for mental health support. there are far less opportunities and chances for people to get into that state. >> how do you know he's got mental health? >> kate and they do, which is another thing that i mentioned to you on twitter. um, people with um, who are struggling to

cope then go on to self—medicate through alcohol and addiction, which what also mentioned which is what i also mentioned on media. and then that on social media. and then that escalates. they have that snowball so that people have to fund . and by funding that, fund that. and by funding that, they often get themselves into petty crime that snowballs again and they get worse. and our prison population is then increased dramatically because these people go in for two, three weeks when what actually would be cheaper in the long run would be cheaper in the long run would be cheaper in the long run would be to support the mental health services properly and then reduce this dramatically reduces . so you, michelle and reduces. so you, michelle and your your toddler would not have been um put forward in. well i will try. i will try for the fourth time because i am i'm giving you the respect of letting you talk as much as possible, but it's a two way exchange. >> how do you know that this person has mental health issues? because i certainly didn't. and i was stood in a tube carriage with him. so how do you know that? >> how do you know that? he's a mad man? >> because that's the man that i

chose describe him based on chose to describe him based on his erratic , aggressive, his erratic, aggressive, ridiculous , threatening violence ridiculous, threatening violence behaviour. that is how i chose to describe him. and i stand by that. to describe him. and i stand by that . so what to describe him. and i stand by that. so what i'm to describe him. and i stand by that . so what i'm fascinated by that. so what i'm fascinated by because i see this all over society , something bad happens society, something bad happens and the first thing that many people do from the left, they immediately do what i would call playing the mental health card. why because mental health isn't supported. >> so from my perspective, what all those adjectives that you have described confirm to me that that person has may have an underlying problem. as i said , i underlying problem. as i said, i find that if i had mental health issues, i would find what you're saying pretty offensive, not go around doing that. but i was suffering with mental health issues . issues. >> i would find what you're saying pretty offensive because what you're saying is if someone acts in a violent , aggressive, acts in a violent, aggressive, impulsive , threatening manner, impulsive, threatening manner, then therefore they must be in

this basket of somebody that has a mental health condition . and i a mental health condition. and i would reject that if i was one of those true sufferers, as which you say that that person approached you and the rest of those commuters with a sound and safe mind . i don't know. and can safe mind. i don't know. and can i be completely honest as well? and you weren't like this. i couldn't care less. i could not care less about his state of mind. i care about my safety, but primarily my two year old safety and beyond that, the safety and beyond that, the safety of everyone else in the carriage. this fella's state of mind. i genuinely couldn't care less about, and i find it fascinate . and i guess this is fascinate. and i guess this is the point i'm trying to get to. yes, we all can care for that. mental health services and all the rest of it need to be funded better. we're on the same page with that. yes we can care that people are being let down. but i'm fascinated when there i'm fascinated that when there is society, why is wrongdoing in society, why is the immediate primary first response to blame it not on the

individual, not on the individual's choices and actions , but instead on this mythical third entity of mental health? i can't understand it . can't understand it. >> then i would turn that around and say, why is it that those on the centre and the centre right then jump on the bandwagon and use it as a prod to keep having a go at certain groups ? which is a go at certain groups? which is another thing i mentioned on social media. was i having a go at which certain groups are having a go at criminals, violent individuals, but you do . you're known for it. myself when you were on did have a go at criminals and i would continue to inflammatory and language to get you this pubuchy language to get you this publicity when actually we should be caring about our fellow human being. right. we should be thinking, well, actually, yes, i was frightened. my actually, yes, i was frightened. my god, and we're safe. but what what should have happened for that person who could have helped before they helped that person before they got me on the tube? so that got to me on the tube? so that that didn't need to happen because if too many of our

people are falling through the net, know own child at net, do you know my own child at six was illegally six years old was illegally expelled from a primary school after a diagnosis and statement of autistic spectrum disorder and that evening i found him hanging . i caught and that evening i found him hanging. i caught him by a minute school of a minute before i'd lost him because he's a mom. >> i must i must. i must express sympathy for that because that would be horrendous for children to older people if they're not supported and that funding is not there , then we end up with not there, then we end up with a society that is angry that will then attack others and as i said before, there should be consequence. >> but my god, this government needs to start funding properly and supporting others. the only reason why i became a labour councillor for was supporting 3000 families who have got children with neurodiversities and had to organise a protest march when our local mp signed off on a 40% reduction in the child and adolescent mental

health service, which meant we had one consultant that covered shropshire and telford and wrekin well at that point, let's end this on a point of agreement because for time reasons, that is all i've got time for. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> threatening suicide? >> threatening suicide? >> well, look, i think let's end on point of agreement. as on a point of agreement. as i said, as a mum for mum to mum, what you've just described with your son is horrific and i'm your own son is horrific and i'm very as a family, you've very sad. as a family, you've experienced agree on experienced that. we agree on the health services being the mental health services being reduced. both agree that that reduced. we both agree that that is wrong. that's however, is where meeting of the minds where our meeting of the minds stops. i do , however, respect stops. i do, however, respect you for taking the time to come on and debate with me because many know what? in many people you know what? in this age, they all this day and age, they throw all kinds stuff over the twitter kinds of stuff over the twitter and they don't have the kahunas to back up. so respect there to back it up. so respect there to back it up. so respect there to that labour councillor for coming that coming on and debating that issue. what you issue. you tell me what you think. i think this mental health being way too health card is being way too overplayed in society. it's being as excuse as to being used as an excuse as to explain away wrongdoing wherever it seems to occur. am i wrong? you tell me. vaiews@gbnews.com

is how you get hold of me

news radio. >> hello there. i'm michelle dewberry, keeping you company till 7:00 tonight. the journalist and former brexit party mep , martin daubney party mep, martin daubney alongside , as is the alongside me, as is the co—founder of the together declaration , alan miller. if declaration, alan miller. if you've just tuned in, you've just missed our earlier conversation, which was me debating with a labour councillor about some of the things that she took me to task on over twitter when i was describing a really scary situation that me and my toddler experienced the weekend at. experienced at the weekend at. and the lady's primary concern was with the word the use of the word madman. to be fair to her, she does want me to make the point she's not speaking on behalf party, but behalf of the labour party, but notwithstanding she is notwithstanding that she is a labour councillor. but i have to say respect to her because a lot of people, don't want to of people, they don't want to debate so debate different opinions. so respect due. but

respect where it's due. but i have to say i've come away from my exchange with my mind still in the same position is in the same position which is i feel that mental health is used repeatedly over and over again to get people off the hook for their behaviour . their bad behaviour. >> it a fascinating >> it was a fascinating exchange. initially it felt like trying to jehovah's trying to talk to jehovah's witness evidence . witness about fossil evidence. you're never going to convince her of your differing viewpoints. she was focusing on on semantics , on linguistics and on semantics, on linguistics and taking away from your experience, your very real lived experience, your very real lived experience and taking offence on behalf of other people . but then behalf of other people. but then as time went on, i think it became quite clear that here's an individual who's been through an individual who's been through a traumatic personal experience, who with with great justification , is angry at the justification, is angry at the system and the lack of support for her son. but then that became a problem with you and your language. and she was projects her own hurt , her own projects her own hurt, her own pain and her own frustration at the at the system and the lack of support. on to you. very, very unfair plea. i think that's part of the problem with

identity politics and the liberal left. they take something specific which makes them angry about anything and everything that everything to do with that topic, particularly about someone like yourself. you know, you're a high profile individual. you're a target , and individual. you're a target, and she's into you, i think, she's laid into you, i think, very unfairly. think very unfairly. but i think i think both of you came out well. there it it was there and i think it was it was actually refreshing to hear a debate opposite , you know, debate of opposite, you know, agreeing and parting. >> yeah. like i said, respect to her for coming on. >> well, firstly, i want to say i'm very sorry you had that experience and that you're okay. you was listening then because i was criticising that not being the first response. >> so done. the first response. >> well, done. the first response. >> well, and )ne. the first response. >> well, and also i want to say a brilliant shout out to the woman stood in solidarity woman who stood in solidarity with and like we've seen with you and like we've seen with you and like we've seen with the terrorist attacks, the great bravely great british public bravely have and stood and have come out and stood and fought and defended one another. and i think that's what's so great about the public. that's the first point. the second point, think, is it's become point, i think, is it's become very problematic. i agree very problematic. so i agree with your here more that with your point here more that everything terms everything is described in terms

of vulnerabilities. khan of vulnerabilities. sadiq khan said what we used to said all these what we used to call violent criminals, they're all vulnerable people are all vulnerable people who are at risk . now, read, define risk. now, if you read, define everyone from children to all adults as all being vulnerable and at risk, you can't actually define people in any way. and then the argument that she was making, which i think very making, which i think is very unfair, was then extrapolate unfair, was to then extrapolate it as you made point and it as you made the point and apply all people with apply it to all people with mental i think when you mental health. i think when you have agree with martin on have and i agree with martin on this, you have a this, i think when you have a competing of being competing sense of being ostracised, becomes the ostracised, that becomes the medium through which people exchange saying exchange rather than saying we're we we're all citizens, we have a common interest together. there are some people do things are some people that do things that terrible. people talk are some people that do things that safe rrible. people talk are some people that do things that safe spaces'eople talk are some people that do things that safe spaces allle talk are some people that do things that safe spaces all the alk are some people that do things that safe spaces all the time , about safe spaces all the time, yet in this yet you've been in this experience and we've people experience and we've many people have this experience. have been in this experience. some people are actually scared now to be public areas. we've now to be in public areas. we've seen of things happen. seen all sorts of things happen. the and i'd the good thing, and i'd encourage to do this encourage everyone to do this because british because i know the british pubuc because i know the british public fantastic the most public is fantastic for the most part. there are a few people and i them rotten apples, i would call them rotten apples, right? people don't like that term either. but for the vast majority, insulting to

majority, it's insulting to apples. majority people majority, it's insulting to appdecent. majority people majority, it's insulting to appdecent.they)rity people majority, it's insulting to appdecent. they support)eople majority, it's insulting to appdecent. they support one. e are decent. they support one. and everyone to be and i'd encourage everyone to be brave then and i'd encourage everyone to be brav�*that then and i'd encourage everyone to be brav�*that reinforces then and i'd encourage everyone to be brav�*that reinforces itself. then and i'd encourage everyone to be brav�*that reinforces itself. andn that that reinforces itself. and i would love it if the woman that actually was there with you did make herself known . but did make herself known. but congratulations to her. >> and that was actually the congratulations to her. >> arof that was actually the congratulations to her. >> arof my was actually the congratulations to her. >> arof my tweetictually the congratulations to her. >> arof my tweet in jally the congratulations to her. >> arof my tweet in the! the congratulations to her. >> arof my tweet in the first point of my tweet in the first place, because i can't even explain how frightened i was. and it's embarrassing saying that because i am a tough cookie . i would like to think i can defend myself. but when you add your child into the mix and because i had it locked in my head, stabbings the head, the stabbings of the children bush, i was children in the bush, i was terrified. anyway do you know what lots of reaction, lots of response to that. i ended up on the point, actually, where of cuncumen, whatever it is, that word it is. yeah. it is conquered the point that we both conquered the point that we both conquered on is whatever side of the political landscape you are on, it's undeniable that there is a woeful lack of kind of funding , availability, services,

funding, availability, services, etc. for people that genuinely are struggling from mental health issues. you've got police officers being used as some kind officers being used as some kind of like extended social services system. you've got people that teenage children we've just been discussing it there. you've got teenagers that are desperately in need mental health support in need of mental health support , but good luck trying to get hold of camhs, by the way, because if you do try and get hold of there's a waiting hold of them, there's a waiting list as arm . the list as long as my arm. the issue that i have , well, it's issue that i have, well, it's twofold, i suppose it's firstly that this whole label mental health, whenever you hear anything bad happening, you just know you can count. you can count seconds on your small count the seconds on your small hand of your watch because you know, within seconds there'll be someone, somewhere that says, oh yeah, mean to him yeah, but don't be mean to him because that guy, he's just got mental that's the mental health issues. that's the first secondly, the first point. and secondly, the compelled issue. i don't compelled speech issue. i don't like told. martin what like being told. martin what words i should and shouldn't use . i don't like ordinary words being captured by this kind of ideology and being twisted to

mean something that they're not. and for other people. my final rant is for other people to dictate the context and the meaning and the intention by what you say. so you can say whatever and then someone else can say, well, i've interpreted that in this way. it's a hate crime and you are this and that and the other. this whale's going mad. >> yeah. i mean, there's a moral hierarchy and she obviously placed herself above you in terms judging by your use terms of judging you by your use of linguistics as opposed to judging this guy. it's not by his actions. >> not about me in this >> it's not about me in this lady. it's about, think, lady. it's about, i think, society got society in general. it's got this whole of repositioning this whole kind of repositioning of purchasing of words. of repair, purchasing of words. people think. people are told what to think. they're what to say and how they're told what to say and how to speak. >> but also people can just be off their wrong ends, off their heads wrong ends, idiots. , words i can't idiots. you know, words i can't use tv. doesn't mean use on tv. it doesn't mean they've got a mental health issue. you can issue. it's like you can actually know, actually just be you know, somebody out to cause somebody who's out to cause trouble . trouble. >> well, can you. is that >> well, yeah. can you. is that fair these days? >> absolutely. think thing >> absolutely. i think the thing is, when you try and repose everything as a mental health issue, we're dangerous

issue, we're in really dangerous territory because also means territory because it also means that everyone needs interventions that one that everyone needs inte have ons that one that everyone needs inte have responsibility one that everyone needs inte have responsibility , one that everyone needs inte have responsibility , you; can have responsibility, you know, responsibility under engush know, responsibility under english law in particular, you are responsible for your actions. there might be circumstances about what's influenced that, but that's the context . and we shouldn't let context. and we shouldn't let people off responsibility , but people off responsibility, but we do all the other we should do all the other things make sure things in society to make sure they and participate properly. >> yeah, and i also find it interesting to be lectured about use from people use of language from people representing a party who thinks it's fine to use it's absolutely fine to use appalling from the very appalling language from the very top down actually to describe people who simply just have a political view that's different to theirs anyway. vaiews@gbnews.com let me know your thoughts. lots to unpack there, but there's also lots more to discuss. i want to ask you about strikes ing workers. if you go on strike, should you be eligible to receive a bonus? yes or no? your thoughts that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers >> proud sponsors of weather on

gb news. hello it's aidan mcgivern. >> here with the latest forecast from the met office here at gb news. clear at first over the next 24 hours, clouds then increase aukus rain spreading up from southwest at many from the southwest at for many of later we've got a gap of us later on. we've got a gap in between systems for in between weather systems for the time being. low pressure pushing the north sea. but pushing into the north sea. but the on the way, the next low is on the way, bringing a series weather bringing a series of weather fronts particularly fronts that will particularly affect northern ireland, wales and south—west the end of and the south—west by the end of the night. already the clouds are thickening western are thickening across western areas and areas through the evening and overnight. spells for overnight. clear spells for scotland and central and eastern england at first and actually quite a fresh feel here first thing thursday with temperatures widely in the single figures not quite so fresh further west where got cloud where we've got the cloud keeping bit milder and keeping things a bit milder and we've got the rain moving we've also got the rain moving in first some heavier in first thing, some heavier pulses across parts of northern ireland during as ireland during the morning as well and the well as wales and the south—west. that slowly south—west. that rain slowly pushes the rest of wales, pushes into the rest of wales, the midlands, south east england, but it largely avoids scotland where we just see 1 or 2 light showers in the

afternoon. likewise for the north northeast england, north and northeast of england, feeling warm where we do get some sunshine through, some sunshine coming through, feeling cool feeling disappointingly cool across the central slice of the uk 16 to 17 where we've got the outbreaks of rain, further rain to come across northern england into parts of north wales, northern ireland during friday morning. heavy showers clear the south—east, but further downpours are likely into the afternoon . then the weather afternoon. then the weather settles down. this weekend. high pressure builds plenty of warm sunshine . sunshine. >> that warm feeling inside and from boxt boilers proud sponsors of weather on

radio. >> hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight alongside with the journalist and former brexit party mep martin daubney and the co—founder of the together declaration , alan miller. right

declaration, alan miller. right i want to get into the conversation. we've just been talking a lot about crime . i was talking a lot about crime. i was actually going to move on and talk about a bit more crime, but i've got to be honest with you, i'm a little bit crimed out now quite instead i'm quite frankly. so instead i'm going to talk to you about striking workers pretty much every sector these days seems to be on strike, doesn't it? and it seems to have going on for seems to have been going on for quite time. but i found quite some time. but i found this quite interesting because network rail have that they this quite interesting because netv be< rail have that they this quite interesting because netv be refusing ve that they this quite interesting because netvbe refusing annualthat they this quite interesting because netvbe refusing annual bonuses will be refusing annual bonuses for staff who went on strike this basically will affect up to about 20,000 members of the rmt union in we're talking about amounts of about £300. but for me the amount is kind of irrelevant. what i want to explore is the principle. do you think it's fair and reasonable ? think it's fair and reasonable? well, for a company to do this totally 100. >> mick the grinch lynch stole christmas. he then stole our summers and now he's like trying to go on about and get the world's smallest violins out because get their end because they won't get their end of bonus. you no, you know, of year bonus. you no, you know, you took part this

you willingly took part in this at cost the economy. £1 at great cost to the economy. £1 billion total, £25 million for every weekday , £15 million for every weekday, £15 million for every weekday, £15 million for every weekend. this strike went on at great personal cost to the individual ulez how many parents out there had to get extra childcare or couldn't even go to work because of train strikes ? work because of train strikes? it's great additional costs. having to reprogramming having to drive reprogramming the way we travel around the country during the train service, a huge dis service. i think they deserve to be penalised like this when they say it's their right to withhold their labour. that's a strikers right ? surely it's an employer's right? surely it's an employer's right? surely it's an employer's right to withhold an annual bonus if you can't be bothered to go to work, cry me a river. >> alan miller well, that's the argument. >> the network rail are making is saying that they were crystal clear in advance that if people did this, performance did this, the performance related bonuses be related bonuses would be impacted and some people may think make the point they've got could make the point they've got a rise and that would not a 9% pay rise and that would not have happened had they withdrawn their labour and challenged it. maybe argument their labour and challenged it. manyou argument

their labour and challenged it. manyou to argument their labour and challenged it. manyou to be argument their labour and challenged it. manyou to be ableargument their labour and challenged it. manyou to be able to ument that you need to be able to withdraw your labour and it should be a right, even though new have been brought new measures have been brought in prevent that, in to try and prevent that, which are very which i think are very disingenuous by the government that should be able to do that you should be able to do that. did 9% pay that. and they did get a 9% pay disingenuous? well, i think the thing that you try and thing is that if you try and prevent democratic vote prevent the democratic vote happening union, right. by happening in a union, right. by putting legislation in place to try and make that problematic so that you can force them to that then you can force them to go work. that is go back into work. that is a problem, right? people should be able now, in this able to vote. now, in this instance. >> em- w- w— e if you don't have >> likewise, if you don't have any people any framework works and people can tools can just literally down tools and for as long as and go on strike for as long as they want, as often as we haven't seen. >> yeah. so we haven't seen that. what we've is that. and what we've seen is that. and what we've seen is that it was a disruption. i think the bigger is think the bigger question is this of this because this with all of this because you get into the kind of you can get into the kind of punch situation, punch and judy situation, there's issue with our there's an issue with our transport infrastructure and transport and infrastructure and logistic there's issue logistic acas there's an issue with there's issue with with pay. there's an issue with investment. was investment. and there was a whole with lockdowns whole issue with lockdowns and all those that have all of those things that have had and i think the had an impact. and i think the reason we're a cost of living reason we're in a cost of living crisis is partly to do with all

those things. and we need a national ambitious debate and a way our way of improving our infrastructure, travel, infrastructure, our travel, logistic, people get logistic, and that people get better . think everyone better pay. i think everyone should pay and should get much better pay and we be able to it we should be able to make it profitable. but the whole thing about needs ambition and about that needs ambition and that commitment that needs commitment by the employers, by the those investing infrastructure, not investing in infrastructure, not just profits with investing in infrastructure, not justway profits with investing in infrastructure, not justway it's profits with investing in infrastructure, not justway it's the profits with investing in infrastructure, not justway it's the whole»fits with investing in infrastructure, not justway it's the whole thing ith the way it's the whole thing about lockdowns was it restricted our right work and restricted our right to work and the unions have been the rail unions have been restricting work. restricting our right to work. >> same thing. and it's >> it's the same thing. and it's also it's also draped in political ambition. for example, you i've i've had ding you talked i've i've had ding dongs with rmt staff on this station and they're nakedly sort of saying is political of saying this is a political argument want to inflict argument they want to inflict maximum against maximum damage against conservative cause conservative government cause a lot trots. you lot of them are old trots. you know like. this isn't know what they like. this isn't just pay, it's about just about pay, it's about polity. they want cause polity. so they want to cause damage. this lot were just damage. and this lot were just stuck the middle. we're the stuck in the middle. we're the mugs who to pay through the mugs who have to pay through the noses get anywhere by the noses to get anywhere by the train. even train. and then we can't even get blooming get to blooming work. >> let you this, right? >> let me ask you this, right? there's a few words. i've got a colourful vocabulary. when i'm not telly, there's very few

not on telly, there's very few words that impact and affect words that impact me and affect me. there's one right? me. but there's one word right? well, few, actually. well, there's a few, actually. but one of them that really creates in me and creates a response in me and thatis creates a response in me and that is the word scab. yeah. so when it comes to striking , there when it comes to striking, there are some people that for whatever reason , they've whatever reason, they've probably got families to support. they physically cannot afford to be on those picket lines. or maybe they just don't want to ideologically, whatever. what do think that notion what do you think to that notion of being scabs? the of people being scabs? well, the funny thing is i've been called that by an rmt former executive on this channel because my dad was miner who initially went was a miner who initially went on strike for three months when the came 84 and the coal strike came in 84 and then didn't. >> reason that >> and the reason that nottinghamshire that was nottinghamshire did that was because arthur scargill wouldn't give a vote. it was give notts lads a vote. it was like, give us a vote and the chances are going to vote chances are we're going to vote to didn't get to strike. but they didn't get a vote. were told to strike. vote. they were told to strike. so that's been lost in the fullness time. but to this fullness of time. but to this day, michel, still i've day, michel, people still i've seen year old coal, coal seen 80 year old coal, coal miners fight other. miners want to fight each other. still i know about this and still all i know about this and that word a particularly

that that word is a particularly loaded word that still to this day gets octogenarians ready to go. >> well, it does. and there is a thing about solidarity, but you have to win hearts and minds to do it. so the point about the nottingham coal miners was that there should have been a proper democratic vote calling people's names because you want to shut that down and you don't think you're necessarily going to win. that vote really massive that vote is really a massive problem. the other thing problem. i think the other thing is is there should is this, is that there should have more of an attempt by have been more of an attempt by the others to win the the rmt and others to win the hearts and more, i think hearts and minds more, i think mick did a fair enough job mick lynch did a fair enough job at making his case, but he didn't win enough hearts and minds. think that there's didn't win enough hearts and mquestion think that there's didn't win enough hearts and mquestion of think that there's didn't win enough hearts and mquestion of the k that there's didn't win enough hearts and mquestion of the private here's didn't win enough hearts and mquestion of the private sector a question of the private sector who quite understandably think, hold have some of hold on, we don't have some of these benefits and we're these other benefits and we're often discarded. often going to get discarded. now that's not for us compete now that's not for us to compete with. another i think with. one another about. i think that's opportunity for all that's an opportunity for us all to couple of things. to insist on a couple of things. one, we need better one, we need far better infrastructure investment infrastructure and investment to everyone's much everyone's pay should be much more. we get that? we get more. how do we get that? we get that by having an ambitious approach, term approach, approach, a long term approach, not short term. >> the public sector the

>> the public sector and the private higher absolutely. >> the way you get higher >> but the way you get higher wages you increase wages is you increase productivity. is sclerotic wages is you increase productivity.is sclerotic in productivity is sclerotic in britain has been for a long. how do you do that if there's no trains well, okay. but trains running? well, okay. but you're it the instance you're taking it in the instance . i'm saying a range of . i'm saying that a range of things there are all sorts things right there are all sorts of we've seen, like of measures as we've seen, like bullet right? there's bullet trains, right? there's all of measures all sorts of measures like proper drilling techniques, proper new drilling techniques, £200 a elephant, hs2, >> it's a white elephant, hs2, if at the drilling if you look at the drilling techniques that now techniques that are now have come with nanoprobes bots. >> if you at some of the >> if you look at some of the measures that elon musk has proposed with his boring and tunnels, look at things tunnels, if you look at things like drones melbourne tunnels, if you look at things likcarry drones melbourne tunnels, if you look at things likcarry droniaroundalbourne tunnels, if you look at things likcarry droniaround , bourne tunnels, if you look at things likcarry droniaround , there's to carry people around, there's a we should have a we a range we should have a we can't even get. i know that's the whole i can't even get that's exactly my i can't that's exactly my point. i can't even to skeggy my point is even get to skeggy my point is about that the whole about this is that the whole discussion is about levelling up, can happen in up, about what can happen in britain. have a future britain. we should have a future festival britain approach festival of britain approach where we have dynamic, creative city investment we're not city investment and we're not squabbling amongst ourselves , squabbling amongst ourselves, which is what this discussion to me has become about.

>> i'm not squabbling with you . >> i'm not squabbling with you. i'm just i'm just i'm just in awe of the fact that we're talking about drones and bullet trains and all the rest of it when literally you try getting from east to west in this country. good luck with that. >> seven hours to get to wales. the other day from from london, from just from a station, there was seven hours. >> everyone. i bet you've all got tales of woe when it comes to a disrupted travelling the to a disrupted travelling on the trains. whole trains. anyway, that's a whole topic whole different day. topic for a whole different day. lots though up. well, lots though to come up. well, i say look at that. look at say lots. look at that. look at the flown. it's almost the time it's flown. it's almost 6:45. everyone anyway, i'll tell you what i do want to talk about. ulez, course, was about. ulez, of course, was expanded and now expanded yesterday and now there's basically there's been people basically tearing down the cameras, trashing the cameras. and one mp is basically said , and it's not is basically said, and it's not too bad to do that there or thereabouts. do you agree or

not hi there. i'm michelle dewberry

with you right through till 7:00 tonight alongside with the journalist and former brexit party mep martin daubney and the co—founder of the together declaration, alan miller. i've had lots of response to some of the conversations tonight , but the conversations tonight, but on whole topic of mental on that whole topic of mental health and all the rest of it, caitlyn says, i suffer from mental health issues and i am sick of people blaming mental health for the behaviour of individuals who the individuals who behave in the manner that do because they manner that they do because they choose she says the work choose to. she says the work world has gone mad. have to say that sentiment is coming through quite a lot in terms of just says i am autistic and i find it offensive that someone would generalise people being aggressive and saying that that is basically mental health. mel says. mental health is the new benefit claim . um, lots and lots benefit claim. um, lots and lots and lots of feedback on that one. when it comes to striking workers and whether or not they should get a bonus, not many people out there, i have to say , are saying that yes, they

should . graham, you're a harsh should. graham, you're a harsh quy- should. graham, you're a harsh guy. you say you'd sack all of them. they're lucky to have a job, never mind a bonus. mike says if you can strike as often as the rail workers have been doing, you're clearly paid sufficiently and you shouldn't get a bonus. john says. these guys are taking the mick even thinking that they should get a bonus. thinking that they should get a bonus . and david says no, the bonus. and david says no, the bonus. and david says no, the bonusis bonus. and david says no, the bonus is a reward given for good work . if you've been out on work. if you've been out on strike, you're not working, never mind working well, you might a different view. and might have a different view. and if if you think if you do and if you think actually, absolutely actually, yes, you absolutely deserve in touch deserve that bonus, get in touch and let me know. very interesting thing happened today. to say. sir ian today. i have to say. sir ian duncan smith , we've been talking duncan smith, we've been talking about the expansion of ulez. is this group that are going this group now that are going around trashing the around basically trashing the ulez cameras because they don't agree so ian agree with it anyway. so ian duncan smith has come out now and said, and i quote, that he's happy for his constituent to destroy cameras because destroy ulez cameras because i also quote there have been lied to. alan miller, you're a very

prominent voice on this whole ulez stuff. what do you make to what ian duncan smith has said? well a few things. >> i think the first thing is that there is a lot of fury. i think he'll be experiencing that with his constituents. yes. and people taking things into people are taking things into their hands. some people their own hands. some people like they've done with low traffic neighbourhoods and bollards and they've done that. and and and there's fury. and i understand the sentiment understand that the sentiment when people feel like they're being ignored when there's a consultation majority consultation and the majority say they don't want it, the cameras bought anyway. we're cameras get bought anyway. we're told of and people, told loads of lies and people, some go and do that. some people will go and do that. i do think way to achieve i do think the way to achieve things and solve is to things and to solve them is to win hearts and minds to win enough hearts and minds to force the issue, force the force the issue, to force the mps to force government and mps and to force government and to mayor to stop it. to force the mayor to stop it. and to do that, democrats actually and i think sometimes it can be low horizons to think you can not circumvent that. so i think it's also interesting and we shouldn't let the conservatives off the hook because of this, because he's in a that was prominently a party that was prominently promoting some of these ideas around red traffic and around

reduction and around policies. and now understandably , because and now understandably, because a lot of pressure we've all put on the government and mark harper, department of transport, which great lot the which is great a lot of the pubuc which is great a lot of the public and thank you to everyone for doing that. now he and now they keir starmer and they and also keir starmer and others in the labour party are wanting separate themselves wanting to separate themselves from because realise from this because they realise how how much how unpopular it is and how much it people. it damages working people. however, in many ways the conservatives were just as much to blame initially for all of this former prime this and the former prime minister. the question has to minister. so the question has to be how are we going to resolve this and change this issue isn't going fact, it's going going away. in fact, it's going to much worse and it is to get much worse and it is going linked to some of going to be linked to some of the issues we've seen around the country where people have got them like in them taken out, like in warrington elsewhere. warrington and elsewhere. >> a highway >> sadiq khan is a highway robber. he's acting like a feudal clutching feudal baron and he's clutching his peasants are his pearls when the peasants are revolting. we've been ignored on brexit. ignored on the brexit. we're ignored on the consultation for ulez has brought in irrespective no choice. no, no mandate. just got to cough up for it. and when people aren't listening to you

repetitively, we saw with lockdowns and again they end up getting frustrated and bypassing the democratic system, which doesn't work for them. we know we've got a mayoral election coming up there great coming up. there are some great candidates howard cox for candidates like howard cox for reform who wants to get rid of all of ulez. i think that's what is a good to go. the is a good ticket to go. the conservatives, by the only conservatives, by the way, only want expansion. so want to stop its expansion. so they to keep it where it they want to keep it where it is. and the north and south circular in middle. so circular and in the middle. so they're of, i think, a diet they're kind of, i think, a diet con version. poll tax con version. but the poll tax only got through because people took to the streets and did direct action. ulez is sadiq khan's poll tax? >> well, if sadiq khan was here, he'd be telling us all. all he wants to do is help save the lives of children. he would say thatis lives of children. he would say that is busy being busy speaking to bereaved mums plural, and that he feels is doing right. christine says she completely disagrees ulez , but anyone disagrees with ulez, but anyone destroying anything should be severely punished. she thinks it's a shocking thing to condone the behaviour. and that was iain duncan smith doing so. look,

time flies when you've been having fun. alan martin thank you for your company. more importantly , thank you at home. importantly, thank you at home. do not go anywhere. nigel farage. up next, the temperature's rising . temperature's rising. >> boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello. it's aidan mcgivern here with the latest forecast from the met office here at gb news. clear at first over the next 24 hours, clouds then increase, rain spreading up from the southwest. for many of us later on. we've got a gap in between weather systems for the time low pressure pushing time being, low pressure pushing into sea. but the next into the north sea. but the next low the way, bringing a low is on the way, bringing a series of weather that series of weather fronts that will particularly affect northern ireland, wales and the south—west end of the south—west by the end of the night. the clouds are night. already the clouds are thickening areas thickening across western areas through the evening and overnight. for overnight. clear spells for scotland and central and eastern england at first and actually quite a fresh feel here first thing thursday with temperatures widely in the single figures not quite so fresh further west where we've cloud where we've got the cloud keeping a milder and

keeping things a bit milder and we've also got the rain moving in thing, some heavier in first thing, some heavier pulses parts of northern pulses across parts of northern ireland during morning as ireland during the morning as well and the well as wales and the south—west. rain slowly south—west. that rain slowly pushes into the rest of wales, the midlands, south east england, it largely avoids england, but it largely avoids scotland where we just see 1 or 2 light showers in the afternoon. likewise for the north northeast england, north and northeast of england, feeling warm where we do get some coming through, some sunshine coming through, feeling cool feeling disappointingly cool across the central slice of the uk 16 to 17 where we've got the outbreaks of rain, further rain to come across northern england into parts of north wales, northern ireland during friday morning. heavy showers clear the south, the temperatures rising , south, the temperatures rising, a boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> good evening. we now have the full facts from the notting hill carnival . they are ugly figures carnival. they are ugly figures , arrests, knifings and some really shocking behaviour . it really shocking behaviour. it goes on every year, but it seems now to be getting worse. we'll ask should the notting hill carnival continue? we'll update you on ulez. it looks like the protest against that is now turning into a full scale revolt , perhaps the biggest one we've seen since the poll tax all those years ago . and travel those years ago. and travel chaos. brits stranded all over the shop. many having to wait more than a week to fly back to the united kingdom, incurring big costs and being told there will be no compensation. we'll attempt to find out why. but before all of that, let's get the news with tatiana sanchez . the news with tatiana sanchez. >> nigel, thank you very much. and good evening. this is the latest from the newsroom. the

inquiry into