gb news. it's saturday night and this is the saturday five. i'm darren grimes, along with albie amankona emily carver, benjamin butterworth and lynn me tonight on the show. >> well, why are we in britain paying >> well, why are we in britain paying for illegal migrants who have abused police officers in france? with 1 in 5 schoolchildren regularly skipping school? whatever happened to parental responsibility? >> have brits turned into work? shy lazy losers? >> if sunak thinks he could win an election , why won't he call an election, why won't he call one? >>i one? >> i think it's about time we scrap the archaic, out—of—date term race. >> it's 8 pm. and this is the

saturday five a . well saturday five a. well, come to the saturday five. it's very hot outside and it's likely to get pretty heated in here as well over the next hour. so grab yourself a cold drink or two and get ready for some feisty debate . but as you know, every week i'll be emily benjamin and myself are joined by a guest star. tonight , it's none star. and tonight, it's none other than lynn. me? yes >> now, the premise of the show is each us gets 60s is simple. each of us gets 60s to outline our argument about our chosen topic. then we all pile in and the discussion starts. as always, please do let us know what you think. get in touch by emailing gbviews@gbnews.com. but before we start tearing each other apart, it is your saturday night news with aaron armstrong . news with aaron armstrong. >> very good evening to you.

let's get you up to date with the headlines from the gb newsroom. escaped terror suspect daniel caliph has been apprehended bringing an end to his days the run. he was his four days on the run. he was pulled from a bicycle by a plainclothes officer canal plainclothes officer on a canal towpath in northolt, west london, 12 miles from wandsworth prison. and that's where he escaped from on wednesday. the search focussed on chiswick earlier after witnesses placed him in the area. the prime minister praised efforts by the police and commander dominic murphy, the met's counter—terror terrorism chief, says the public played an integral role . played an integral role. >> we've had a significant number of counterterrorism detectives working on this and officers and staff from across so15 here, but also a huge amount of support from the wider metropolitan police who have been utterly dedicated to trying to find daniel. and so at the moment, at that moment in time, there were a large number of officers in the south—west london searching for london area all searching for daniel. and i'm pleased to say that's to his capture that's what led to his capture this morning. media the this morning. the media and the pubuc a this morning. the media and the public a very, very public have paid a very, very substantial role, and that

cooperation so cooperation has been so significant daniel significant in finding daniel and sure that he's back and making sure that he's back in today . in custody today. >> more than a thousand people have killed and hundreds have been killed and hundreds more after more are injured after a powerful earthquake central powerful earthquake in central morocco. the scale of the damage can be seen in these pictures from amizmiz, a town at the foot of the atlas mountains around 40 miles southwest of marrakesh, which was the epicentre of the quake. and many of the deaths are understood to be in these remote areas. further complicating rescue efforts, the 6.8 magnitude earthquake is the strongest to hit the north african country in a century . african country in a century. relatives of ten year old sarah sharif have been detained for questioning by police in pakistan. her father and his partner and their children fled the uk for pakistan after sarah was found dead at her home in woking last month. a post—mortem examination found she had suffered multiple injuries over an extended period of time . an extended period of time. rishi sunak says he's optimistic that the uk and india can overcome any final hurdles in

negotiations and conclude a free trade deal . the prime negotiations and conclude a free trade deal. the prime minister held talks with his indian counterpart, narendra modi at the 620 counterpart, narendra modi at the g20 summit of the world's leading economies. it was in delhi earlier. delegates have agreed on a joint declaration , agreed on a joint declaration, including a strong statement on the war in ukraine, although the statement didn't directly criticise russia. president vladimir putin and indeed the chinese leader xi jinping, were not at the summit . this is gb not at the summit. this is gb news across the uk on tv, on your digital radio and on your smart speaker to just say play gb news. now it's back . to the. gb news. now it's back. to the. >> thanks, aaron. it's saturday night. you're with the saturday five. i'm emily carver and i can promise you are in for a very lively hour this evening. so let's crack on tonight's let's crack on with tonight's first debate. now, then, darren is going tell us about why uk is going to tell us about why uk taxpayers are footing the bill for crimes committed on french soil. yes, you heard it is grime time. >> absolutely . emily, this story

>> absolutely. emily, this story makes me as red as your dress. last week i was in israel. last week and i was right in the eye of the storm as as really police squared off with eritrean migrants . now, this sparked a no migrants. now, this sparked a no nonsense declaration from israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu . netanyahu. >> what happened yesterday crossed a red line. it's a riot . it's bloodshed. these are riots we cannot accept. therefore the first thing i do is to wish recovery to the police officers who were injured dunng police officers who were injured during the attempts to restore order. we asked for strong measures against the rioters, including the immediate deportation of those who took part in it. >> now, you at home might well be thinking fair enough, but enter the london based keyboard warriors quick to racism warriors quick to shout racism and absolutely anything. now, in my opinion , netanyahu is my opinion, netanyahu is a leader who stands his ground right defending israel's borders without apology. not just without apology. he's not just talking about deportations. he's actually pledging fences across its border with jordan, for example, to thwart illegal migration to israel . now, here's

migration to israel. now, here's the kicker. israel isn't a country that surrendered its border security to some pontificating european court that loves to school britain on human rights. i was reminded of this when yesterday's headlines declared that to channel migrants who dared to assault french police are now behind bars now , now, wait a second. bars now, now, wait a second. because you might think they're in behind bars in their own countries such as iraq or sudan, where they hail from . but where they hail from. but they're not they're not even in france. they're serving time at his majesty's pleasure . all on his majesty's pleasure. all on your dime. and let's not kid ourselves here. they'll be out faster than you can say britain. the soft touch nation. can you picture a uk prime minister labelling these thugs as infiltrators and swearing to defend our borders come hell or high water? in comparison to netanyahu, our current parliament is a gaggle of parliamentary pussycats , not a

parliamentary pussycats, not a single roaring british lion among them. and as for emmanuel macron's $0.02 on britain's potential exit from the strasbourg ec court or his stance maybe on migrant returns to france , frankly, i couldn't to france, frankly, i couldn't care less because, mark my words , rishi sunak your own macron level rugby world cup embarrassment is just around the corner . for embarrassment is just around the corner. for emmanuel macron . corner. for emmanuel macron. and he could . be bornu he could. be bornu. to i mean, emily, do you agree that rishi sunakis emily, do you agree that rishi sunak is going to have somewhat cooked his goose if he's not going to be actually robust on this and actually do something because so many viewers are writing in saying , because so many viewers are writing in saying, i because so many viewers are writing in saying , i cannot for writing in saying, i cannot for the life of understand why we the life of me understand why we as taxpayers are putting as british taxpayers are putting these people up in our prisons.

>> well, i think it's because they manage to after they tried to beat up the french police, they managed get on a they managed to get on board a dinghy over uk dinghy and cross over to uk waters. so probably why. waters. so that's probably why. but what can't understand is but what i can't understand is that these two guys have been charged with attempting to arrive in the uk illegally, but from what i can see and what from what i can see and what from everyone can see, many tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands have done the same thing. so i'm wondering why they haven't been sentenced with a crime. is it simply because they were aggressive on the french border? i'm very , very confused border? i'm very, very confused about that one. >> i mean, benjamin, you must, as a zionist yourself, i think you may self—declare as that . you may self—declare as that. would you would you agree with benjamin netanyahu's comments ? benjamin netanyahu's comments? >> no, because i think it's a slightly different point to the one you make. but i think supporting the state of israel and incumbent and supporting the incumbent israeli is not israeli prime minister is not the . and i'm been to the same thing. and i'm been to israel times. big israel many times. i'm a big supporter right exist supporter of its right to exist . it but you know, . it but look, you know,

netanyahu says a lot of things, but his country is in a bit of a mess domestically. so i'm not sure greatest leader sure he's the greatest leader going. don't going. now, what i don't understand these people understand with these people being that being in british prisons is that if committed a crime if you have committed a crime and you are a foreign national, you should back that you should go back to that country. that's the same reason you same you nod. but that's the same reason begum reason why i think shamima begum should and not should be in prison here and not in a camp in northern syria because country where people are from is where they should in prison. >> so do think it was wrong >> so do you think it was wrong then for keir starmer be then for keir starmer to be against the prisoner deportations when he when he was one the 50 signatory of that one of the 50 signatory of that letter trying to get letter who was trying to get people to stop being deported to the countries that they were from they'd from because of crimes they'd done in the uk. >> depends slightly >> well, it depends slightly on when here. does it when they came here. so does it . why? because i think some of these here when they . why? because i think some of theselike here when they . why? because i think some of theselike seven here when they . why? because i think some of theselike seven years re when they . why? because i think some of theselike seven years old. hen they . why? because i think some of theselike seven years old. andthey were like seven years old. and so that say they were like seven years old. and so from that say they were like seven years old. and so from ghana, say they were like seven years old. and so from ghana, for say they were like seven years old. and so from ghana, for example, were from ghana, for example, the idea that you would send them for committing a them to ghana for committing a crime they here crime at 25 when they came here at five old, would not be at five years old, would not be reasonable if you came here as a child, no connections, child, you have no connections, maybe language skill the maybe no language skill from the country i think

country you're from. i think thatis country you're from. i think that is a moral. it's unethical. but if you came here as an adult and a crime, then you and you commit a crime, then you should be out the door. >> but turning to you, do should be out the door. >> ithink turning to you, do should be out the door. >> ithink there 'ning to you, do should be out the door. >> ithink there is1g to you, do should be out the door. >> ithink there is any» you, do should be out the door. >> ithink there is any argument you think there is any argument that suggests maybe something there's a nuance between benjamin's argument and my own argument , or benjamin's argument and my own argument, or do you benjamin's argument and my own argument , or do you actually argument, or do you actually side with one over the other? >> the thing i'm quite balanced on but thing that on this, but the thing that annoys me mostly about this immigration debate is how people feel in england when they say, we need to do something about migration. stigmatised, migration. they are stigmatised, they racists. if they are called racists. but if you at some of the you look at some of the countries around the take countries around the world take from for from where i'm from, for example, and nigeria , example, barbados and nigeria, saudi arabia, their immigration policies are far harsher than ours . so why? why do we never ours. so why? why do we never criticise them? every country should have right to protect should have a right to protect their but at the same their borders, but at the same time, i include some time, where i include some nuance and some context is that many of us now enjoy joy going to, let's say turkish deaneries and indian restaurants and so on and indian restaurants and so on and so forth. and we have to understand that many of these people did actually come here illegally not

illegally because there's not safe routes of passage. if there were routes come here, were safer routes to come here, then we wouldn't see in great. we've not seen so many people come here illegally. so i'm not going to say it's right. i do think we need to do something about it. however, when you close so many routes, close so many legal routes, you're get illegal you're going to get illegal immigration and ask immigration and i always ask people hugely critical. people that are hugely critical. i'm of our i'm more critical of our government opposed to the government as opposed to the people that are coming here, because you, had because wouldn't you, if you had an life, wouldn't try an awful life, wouldn't you try and somewhere? an awful life, wouldn't you try and thinknewhere? an awful life, wouldn't you try and think you're'e? an awful life, wouldn't you try and think you're wrong about >> i think you're wrong about that, though, you could that, though, because you could get the and get on a flight to the uk and then try and claim asylum. people coming this way people are coming in this way because it's and can because it's easier and you can get the protocols. get around the protocols. so even so many safe and even if we had so many safe and legal , people would still legal routes, people would still take ways . so for take different ways. so for example, people coming now, people from india, we example, people coming now, peop|so from india, we example, people coming now, peop|so many from india, we example, people coming now, peop|so many visas india, we example, people coming now, peop|so many visas available to have so many visas available to people coming from india, yet they choose on dinghy they choose to come on a dinghy because want circumvent because they want to circumvent that. can't get my that. but what i can't get my head one's head around and no one's answered this. perhaps have answered this. perhaps we have to judgement and to look at the judgement and look sentencing remarks. look at the sentencing remarks. but these two sent but why were these two sent first now imprisoned for first and now imprisoned for trying to enter this country

illegally? surely that applies to anyone coming in. i am confused about this. can it only be because of the violence? >> i think the french, it makes no sense. they've committed an offence here in france. you've got lads and get got to get these lads and get them out. but i'll on that. them out. but i'll be on that. lin mei made a point there that i really want your opinion on, which is the fact of israel itself, what israel is doing with eritrean migrants, for example . why does it always seem example. why does it always seem like when britain, which doesn't have rhetoric as strong as that by netanyahu, when britain ever says something like, well, you know, we need robust controls here, why is it britain that is renowned as some kind of unique evil for wanting border controls ? >> 7. >>i ? >> i think 7— >> i think it's em 7 >> i think it's very bizarre when you hear these arguments coming from the left most of the time against having tough border controls . and there is controls. and there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying we need a controlled immigration policy. that should be something which all political parties, the parties, perhaps apart from the green , can agree upon. we green party, can agree upon. we

do want open borders. that green party, can agree upon. we do beint open borders. that green party, can agree upon. we do be chaos�*n borders. that green party, can agree upon. we do be chaos . borders. that green party, can agree upon. we do be chaos . so rders. that green party, can agree upon. we do be chaos . so we 's. that green party, can agree upon. we do be chaos . so we needat would be chaos. so we need a strong border with a strong immigration policy is both immigration policy which is both controls migration, but allows the migration in that we the skilled migration in that we need to plug the employment gaps in economy. in our economy. >> well , i in our economy. >> well, i think we'll end >> yes, well, i think we'll end it but benjamin, i never it there. but benjamin, i never knew benjamin send him knew you'd be. benjamin send him home. anyway , the home. butterworth anyway, the only open border party is the one that's in government because they're the ones that are letting hundreds of thousands. >> well, exactly whose identity we don't into the country. we don't know into the country. well what? we don't know into the country. we“ actually what? we don't know into the country. we“ actually agreet? we don't know into the country. we“ actually agree with that. >> i actually agree with that. and up next, it's and he's and up next, it's albee and he's going talking going to be talking about parental responsibility or perhaps more accurately, the apparent take it apparent lack of it. take it away, albee data published this week found that 1 in 5 school children are regularly skipping school. >> that equates to about 1.8 million british schoolchildren are skipping school on a regular basis. this is up from 1 in 10 school children since the advent of the pandemic. now why is this happening ? some people are happening? some people are saying it's because these children are more anxious, they're depressed after the pandemic, or they simply fell

out of the habit of going to school. so they don't want to go anymore . and now whilst that anymore. and now whilst that might all be true, i can't quite get my head around the prospect that today's children , they ask that today's children, they ask their parents, they don't want to go to school and their parents response is, oh, don't worry darling , if you stay at worry darling, if you stay at home then i find that absolutely absurd . and i'm in my 20s. absurd. and i'm in my 20s. granted my late 20s, it wasn't that long ago that i was at school the thought of me saying to my mother in the morning, mummy, i don't fancy going to school today. and letting me school today. and her letting me off just for the birds. even off is just for the birds. even more for the birds was stella creasy. this week on politics live when i simply stated what i thought was the obvious choice. i think this whole idea that oh, you know, it's just that kids are feeling a little bit more anxious and we've got to give them more support in schools. yes, that might be true . but yes, that might be true. but we've also to give the we've also got to give the parents in posterior parents a kick in the posterior to you need to get your to say, you need to get your children to school . this to say, you need to get your

children to school. this is your responsibility. it's a partnership between school and parents. and the parents have got to obe that might sound great on gb news, but the actual reality of dealing with families, families families, especially families who working 2 3 who are probably working 2 or 3 jobs how work with them jobs and how you work with them like have all the like you can have all the rhetoric reality rhetoric you want, the reality on ground and you have on the ground and you have you've know, it's just you've just, you know, it's just about parents to do about telling the parents to do better. >> that was my parents my >> that was my parents in my community >> that was my parents in my contheirity >> that was my parents in my contheir kids. >> that was my parents in my contheir kids . they're facing a for their kids. they're facing a number of barriers can number of barriers and we can either rhetoric at the either have this rhetoric at the top and ignore can top and ignore it or we can watch this and think, watch films like this and think, how get more of those how can we get more of those people to think it's people to i think it's everyone's responsibility . everyone's responsibility. >> albion know stella . it is >> albion i know stella. it is not everyone's responsibility to send children to school. it is the parents responsibility to send their children to school . send their children to school. now, i don't know why that has to only sound good on gb news it seems like plain old common sense to we children sense to me. we have children going to school today, going to reception who are unable to turn pages and books, who aren't potty trained , who can't read at potty trained, who can't read at the that you would expect the level that you would expect children reading at when

children to be reading at when they're school the they're going to school for the first hmm. when did such first time. hmm. when did such low standards become so acceptable in public society ? we acceptable in public society? we need to be getting tougher on the parents who aren't doing the right thing for their children. and absolutely nothing and there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that parents need to kick in the posterior to do thing for their do the right thing for their children . benjamin you're a pal children. benjamin you're a pal of stella's, aren't you? do you think she was right? is it everyone's responsibility to get children to school? >> i think she's dealing with the reality of those families lives far more accurately than you were. you know, it's easy to say that, oh, just force the kid to go to school. well, actually, especially once get especially once you get to teenage, you know, can be teenage, you know, it can be pretty hard to control some of these young people. you know, they sorts of they might have all sorts of issues, especially after covid. and so think, you know, you and so i think, you know, you have at why is it that have to look at why is it that someone go to someone doesn't want to go to school? being bullied school? are they being bullied and they having a wider and are they having a wider mental problem? know, mental health problem? you know, are having with are they having an issue with the think you're the teacher? i think you're better off to look at the issues rather just shouting at

rather than just shouting at a kid. bullied at school, kid. i was bullied at school, lin and i often want lin mei and i often didn't want to school, but my mother to go to school, but my mother always sent me school. to go to school, but my mother alwlys sent me school. to go to school, but my mother alwlys senthat school. to go to school, but my mother alwlys senthat sare ol. to go to school, but my mother alwlys senthat sare from a >> i know that you are from a west background . if you west indian background. if you went your parents. went to your parents. oh, i don't fancy going school don't fancy going to school today feeling today because i'm feeling anxious. do you think they would have stay at home? well, have let you stay at home? well, i that. i often did do that. >> and mother couldn't force i often did do that. >> tod mother couldn't force i often did do that. >> to go mother couldn't force i often did do that. >> to go to mother couldn't force i often did do that. >> to go to school. couldn't force i often did do that. >> to go to school. coul(sheforce i often did do that. >> to go to school. coul(she had me to go to school. and she had to father's heavy hand to have my father's heavy hand to have my father's heavy hand to come and and put the fear to come and say and put the fear of and problem of god in me. and the problem with that is i'm a bit older than i'm 30s and now than you. i'm in my 30s and now we're children empowered we're seeing children empowered to saying no to their parents. we're tock videos, we're seeing tick tock videos, you them from you know, preventing them from even communicating with their parents, think about their mental health and i don't think this is something that we just look at the parents with. this is society issue where is a society issue where children being empowered children are being empowered to have control over their parents. now, we can see so much policy that we cannot discipline our children . we are regularly children. we are regularly seeing them to go on to things like childline for the most minor of things. so i'm going to pose this question to you, albie. if you were to have a 13

year old, that's says unequivocally, i am not leaving the house today, would you the house today, how would you get to school? get them to go to school? >> would up >> i would pick them up physically, in the car physically, put them in the car and there. darren, and drive them there. darren, what do? what would you do? >> well, i said physically, oh, i think the police will be i think the police will not be happy i think the police will not be hapl'd them up the >> i'd kick them up the posterior. , i posterior. but listen, i actually think this is and it's going to get on to what emily's talking later on. talking about later on. actually, i think this is a wider personal wider issue of personal responsibility. if you have kids, a massive response kids, that is a massive response ability. the greatest gift, perhaps anyone will ever know. but if you're not willing and the royal foundation, which was the royal foundation, which was the then duke and duchess of cambridge, now prince and princess of wales, they found had loads of stats saying that actually 59% actually reckon it's the schools responsibility to teach a kid to read and write. for example . now that to write. for example. now that to me is a pretty indictment on where we are as a country where it says, and i did think that was a really interesting point actually, where kids feel emboldened to just say no , we emboldened to just say no, we are raising a generation of

entitled little brats. >> yes . >> yes. >> yes. >> but we it's our generation . >> but we it's our generation. who are these children's parents? is there anything about how we've been brought up the things that we've been consuming, emily, that make people or a little bit people our age or a little bit older , worse parents than people our age or a little bit older , voura parents than people our age or a little bit older , vour parentss than people our age or a little bit older , vour parents or1an grandparents? >> oh, a lot of a lot of my peers at school were allowed to do wanted . and i do whatever they wanted. and i had if she's watching, had a mum, if she's watching, i had a mum, if she's watching, i had mum who would get in the had a mum who would get in the car and drag me out of a house party if she didn't approve or if she found out that there weren't parents there or something. i mean if no men. no in household and that was in my household and that was pretty much how things were done. there was absolutely no way be able not way that i'd be able to not go to school. understand and to school. but i understand and i that , you know, i understand that, you know, some people have extremely difficult home lives. i think the problem also is that a lot of parents of these children who aren't going to school probably don't care for school either. and that's maybe the issue. they don't it's worthwhile don't think it's worthwhile ehhen don't think it's worthwhile either. why would you why either. so why would you why would force child go either. so why would you why wc school, force child go either. so why would you why wc school, gone child go either. so why would you why wc school, gone up child go either. so why would you why wc school, gone up fromild go either. so why would you why wcschool, gone up from 11 go either. so why would you why wcschool, gone up from 1 in go

either. so why would you why wcschool, gone up from 1 in 10 o to school, gone up from 1 in 10 before the pandemic to 1 in 5 after the pandemic? before the pandemic to 1 in 5 aftel the pandemic? before the pandemic to 1 in 5 aftel wonderrdemic? is, >> i wonder why that is, benjamin once benjamin i did try at once i because gordon brown was delivering the budget. >> oh, my god, i hate . oh, god, >> oh, my god, i hate. oh, god, how exciting . in the spare how exciting. in the spare bedroom to watch it on the television. oh, my god. >> it's the only time i ever true. >> well, there's an education, benjamin. >> school to watch gordon brown sell off our nation's gold. still ahead, benjamin thinks sunak should approve that. actually, the people would pick him for pm and lynn. sick of race baiting on both sides . and race baiting on both sides. and emily carver, well, she's asking whether or not we're all turning into work. shy

radio. >> welcome back to the saturday five. so you've been sending in your emails. frank says, i hate to disagree with darren. oh but we have to pay for it if we don't, nobody will. well, there you go . debbie says when in you go. debbie says when in doubt, the french. oh, doubt, blame the french. oh, that's one for you, right? let's

get to our next debate. what have we got on the cards? >> yes. up next, sunak says the people want him. benjamin butterworth says prove it . butterworth says prove it. >> right. this >> yeah, that's right. this week, rishi sunak called in all of his special advisers in downing street, and he said to them, you can only if you them, you can only stay if you believe i could win the election. well, shortly after that, his head of comms quit. election. well, shortly after that, his head of comms quit . so that, his head of comms quit. so that, his head of comms quit. so that a great sign , but that wasn't a great sign, but it's a bit him hoping he can win the election is a like me the election is a bit like me holding hope that i can holding out hope that i can still clooney. it's still marry george clooney. it's really very likely . of really not very likely. of course, is a year course, this week is a year since rishi sunak lost his last election against a woman who lasted less time in downing street than a lettuce lifespan. so i'm not sure his election winning history is very good. but he said , look, i've got five but he said, look, i've got five pledges that i will meet , that pledges that i will meet, that i will stop losing everything . so will stop losing everything. so he said he'll halve inflation and stop the boats. well, i don't want to ruin the end of the story, but he's doing nehhen the story, but he's doing neither. now he has said that if he's got the confidence , he said

he's got the confidence, he said on the flight to the g20 in india to say that he is going to win the election and that he should have confidence in him and that he's going to turn it around. well, i think i'd sooner take hr advice from i take hr advice from lizzo that i would election winning advice from sunak at this stage. from rishi sunak at this stage. the that we've had the truth is that we've had years of floundering and bluster from tory pms who don't know why they're there, don't know what they're there, don't know what they're doing and don't have support of the country for almost 12 months, labour has been 20 points ahead in the polls , which is the biggest long polls, which is the biggest long lead that has ever been recorded in modern polling. even tony blair didn't get that in the 1990s, so rishi sunak is going to go around journalists and advisers saying, i'm going to win this. the people want me . win this. the people want me. and i'll tell you what, rishi, why don't you go to the people now? i'll be the only safe seat. >> i knew you were going to come to me first. i wonder why that was. well, the only seat was. well, the only safe seat you're desperate for than you're more desperate for than the stool sat on is a the stool you're sat on is a

tory seat. tory safe seat. >> tell me, how do you think >> so tell me, how do you think rishi sunak can win? >> look, i think the general election yet election is not yet decided yet . and only that matters . and the only poll that matters is poll on polling day. and is the poll on polling day. and you'll forgetting that it is a very big feat for any political party to turn around an 80 or so seat majority that the conservative party is currently have. that would require a bigger swing for labour than we saw with tony blair against major in 1997. i'm not saying it's impossible , but i'm just it's impossible, but i'm just saying it's very difficult and it's never actually been done before . i think maybe the most before. i think maybe the most i'll be no, i'm not embarrassed at all. >> embarrassing. but you know, you hear a lot of people on this channel who are for the right of the or right of the conservatives or right of the conservatives or right of the cause they're the conservatives cause they're furious. the conservatives cause they're furi�*middle who are furious the middle who are furious because getting the middle who are furious becauslike getting the middle who are furious becauslike education.atting the middle who are furious becauslike education. right. things like education. right. the are crumbling. the the schools are crumbling. the waiting nhs are waiting lists for nhs are a nightmare. you not look at nightmare. do you not look at this and think, god, i'm ashamed. >> i'm not embarrassed anymore. i was certainly embarrassed last yeah i was certainly embarrassed last year. i think the last couple of months johnson months of boris johnson was a disaster . the

months of boris johnson was a disaster. the time months of boris johnson was a disaster . the time that months of boris johnson was a disaster. the time that liz truss was in office was just days air. i actually still think ihave days air. i actually still think i have trauma and ptsd from that period. so that was an embarrassing and difficult penod embarrassing and difficult period to be a conservative. but now that rishi sunak at the now that rishi sunak is at the helm, confident that we're helm, i'm confident that we're on right track. on the right track. >> darren, you're from i think you support the brexit party in the is that right? you support the brexit party in the i is that right? you support the brexit party in the i have s that right? you support the brexit party in thei have . that right? >> i have. >> i have. >> i've do you know what, benjamin? i can't actually remember ever voted for remember if i've ever voted for the party . yes, i have. the brexit party. yes, i have. in the european elections on the brexit party. yes, i have. in tballjropean elections on the brexit party. yes, i have. in tball aspean elections on the brexit party. yes, i have. in tball as ever. elections on the ball as ever. >> me , do you think >> but tell me, do you think voters like that are likely to return to sunak as tory voters like that are likely to return when sunak as tory voters like that are likely to return when it sunak as tory voters like that are likely to return when it comes as tory voters like that are likely to return when it comes to tory voters like that are likely to return when it comes to the leader when it comes to the election? >> actually would argue >> well, i actually would argue that voters are looking at both parties and saying i don't want them because they're both two cheeks of the same behind . cheeks of the same behind. because you've got talk because you've got you talk about rishi with the list about rishi sunak with the list that not delivering. well, about rishi sunak with the list thatlabourot delivering. well, about rishi sunak with the list thatlabour party, vering. well, about rishi sunak with the list thatlabour party, they're well, about rishi sunak with the list thatlabour party, they're doing the labour party, they're doing more u—turns than they're going to up in the u—bend they've to end up in the u—bend they've committed so u—turns. committed so many u—turns. jeremy clarkson's looking on with at them at this point. with envy at them at this point. you've got 28 billion a year on

this green investment that they then turned around and said, oh, actually, we're not sure we'd be able to fund that. and then you've got abolishing vat exemptions on school exemptions on private school fees, meaning more kids end up in schools . that means you in state schools. that means you as a taxpayer has to foot that bill and then they go on and on and on. and the labour party has taken more positions than the sodden kamasutra era. it's absurd. benjamin i always find it hilarious when people say keir starmer, u—turns. >> this from a party that u—turned on who should prime u—turned on who should be prime minister three times in three months. on. the level of absurdity. >> he's so dup solicitous when he became leader was he became labour leader he was left wing economically. now suddenly he's a blairite. or actually conservative when it comes to tax and spend. he said he was a massive greenie. now he's rolling back on those . he he's rolling back on those. he really is. no one knows who he is. and the reason why i don't want general election is want a general election is because the only more because the only thing more horrifying because the only thing more horrifyiigovernment. have is a current government. we have is a keir government because keir starmer government because looking at that bunch, they did

this video that went out on social media and i mean, what did they look like? seriously, they're not ready for government. >> exactly. why should the >> exactly. so why should the british him? british people trust him? because himself british people trust him? be farse himself british people trust him? be far up. himself british people trust him? be far up. jeremy himself british people trust him? be far up. jeremy corbyn's himself so far up. jeremy corbyn's bottom at one point. well, exactly . lived there. now, he exactly. lived there. now, he says he's a horrible thing and got rid of him. so it's so interesting because the question was, sunak win as he claims was, can sunak win as he claims he cant was, can sunak win as he claims he can't offer any he can and you can't offer any of you can only attack of sunak you can only attack ideas of the opposition ideas of what the opposition might. but that's problem might. but that's a problem though , benjamin because i think though, benjamin because i think he win. he could win. >> i think he win. i tell >> i think he could win. i tell us if he was given a little more time, which i know we don't really have, but actually really have, but but i actually think sunak is what the party needsin think sunak is what the party needs in terms of stability. he's experienced, he understands, manage movement of money, the economy, the only shame is that he's been left with such a disaster to try and turn things around. but i'm with you like, yes, i think the conservative moves are absolute shambles and must all political commentators would tell you that no government should be in power longer than ten years. they're

tired, they've had their run. however, can we really see any form of success under a labour government? i mean, yes , you government? i mean, yes, you know, i always find it remarkable . well, under keir, remarkable. well, under keir, yeah, absolutely . yeah, absolutely. >> i mean when you last had a labour government, were labour government, taxes were lower, higher, lower, growth was higher, waiting shorter , waiting lists was shorter, illegal immigration was lower, all of those things that the tories claim they're to going do because you inherited issues, because you inherited issues, because inherited perfect because blair inherited perfect conditions and sir conditions from clarke and sir john major. >> that's why blair was able to do everything that he wanted to do everything that he wanted to do and john major, right? >> well, yes, that's enough of that. still come tonight, lin that. still to come tonight, lin mei divisive race mei tackles divisive race baiters. and i'll be asking why we've workshy we've become such workshy layabouts. you're with the saturday on gb news. saturday five live on gb news. but your weather , but first, it's your weather, that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> good evening. my name is rachel ayers and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast brought to you by the met

office. so it's been another very warm or hot day, especially across the southeast today. and that's because we've still got a bit of a southerly component to our winds bringing that warm to hot air across us from the continent. south was, as we've seen through today, will slowly ease as we go through tonight. but another area of heavy showers and thunderstorms will start to push north eastwards from the southwest . so if you from the southwest. so if you are in the southwest tonight , are in the southwest tonight, you might be woken up by the odd thunderstorm . and this is all thunderstorm. and this is all dunng thunderstorm. and this is all during another warm and humid night . so as we go into the night. so as we go into the start of sunday, those showers will slowly make their way north eastwards into wales , the eastwards into wales, the midlands, northern england , midlands, northern england, northern ireland and later into for southern scotland. and these showers could band together, bringing some heavy rain and thunderstorms as well as the risk of some hail and some strong gusty winds. but it will be another very warm day, especially in the southeast , especially in the southeast, with highs of 30 to now to start

the new working week . plenty of the new working week. plenty of low cloud mist and fog in the north and west. to start with, some showers breaking out later . but this rain erratic , making . but this rain erratic, making its way south eastwards , marking its way south eastwards, marking a change to something slightly cooler as we go into next week where it will feel quite changeable and autumnal with those temperatures closer to average . average. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news don't go weather on. gb news don't go anywhere because still to come, emily says we need to get our behinds in gear or we're now a work shy nation here with the saturday five live on .

radio. >> welcome back to the saturday five, as always. cheers very much for your emails about tonight's topic. much for your emails about tonight's topic . paul's written tonight's topic. paul's written

in, he says that's the first time i've ever agreed with benjamin . time i've ever agreed with benjamin. he's right. sunak is toast. well, there we are . now toast. well, there we are. now it's toast. well, there we are. now wsfime toast. well, there we are. now it's time for our next debate . it's time for our next debate. it's emily. and emily's going to be asking, why do brits hate work so much ? it's time for the work so much? it's time for the carver palaver . carver palaver. >> yes, brits don't like work. according to a poll of 24 countries with a least likely to think it's important. we're also the least likely to say it should take priority over having fun. and only 39% of us believe that hard work will bring us a better life in the long run. let that sink in. only a little more than a third of us actually think hard will benefit think working hard will benefit our lives . if think working hard will benefit our lives. if you think working hard will benefit our lives . if you have that our lives. if you have that attitude, if you're thinking grafting isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference to your , would even your life, why would you even bother to get on? let's bother trying to get on? let's face a lot brits would face it, a lot of brits would rather feet up a rather have their feet up with a cup a pint of beer cup of tea or a pint of beer than bother trying crack on. than bother trying to crack on. but why are we all just lazy work shy losers who care far too much about the live part of the work life balance and hope

somehow things will work out in the reckon there's the end. i reckon there's certainly truth to that, certainly some truth to that, but perhaps it's a tad simplistic . hear me but perhaps it's a tad simplistic. hear me out. but perhaps it's a tad simplistic . hear me out. could simplistic. hear me out. could the towards work the indifference towards work actually be a rational decision for a lot of people? work simply doesn't pay, or at least not enough to make working hard worth . you work your 9 to 5, worth it. you work your 9 to 5, you to the end of the month. you get to the end of the month. the tax man has slashed your payslip to payslip in half and you think to yourself, point in yourself, what's the point in doing more than bare doing any more than the bare minimum? a minimum? perhaps you're a graduate faces the graduate who now faces the equivalent a 55% marginal tax equivalent of a 55% marginal tax rate and you don't a hope rate and you don't have a hope in getting the in hell of getting on the property anyway. even property ladder anyway. and even those to those lucky, luckily enough to be on £100,000 a year, why bother putting your nose to the grindstone, more hours grindstone, taking on more hours trying a promotion when trying to get a promotion when you'll about 40% of you'll see only about 40% of whatever take home. whatever extra you take home. and on top of all that, you're fed up at seeing our taxes squandered incompetent squandered by incompetent politicians. into a politicians. it all feeds into a feeling of what's the point? i'm not sure. a kick up the bum is going to solve this conundrum. so there you go . i think that so there you go. i think that was a nice, balanced perspective from who should i go to?

from me. so who should i go to? may? what do you think? now i've seen tweets of here seen a few tweets of yours here and there that suggest you might think are some think that there are some workshy about. think that there are some worno,( about. think that there are some worno,( thinkibout. think that there are some worno,( think there are. i >> no, i think there are. and i think we always are massively critical of specifically economic migrants. but then i've got a couple of properties and recently i've had a lot of migrants wanting to view my properties and i asked them, you know, well, what were you in your country? and i have things such as science artists and teachers and lecturers and accountants, like, well, accountants, and i'm like, well, what doing here? and what are you doing here? and they're carers. and think when they're carers. and i think when i in welfare work, i used to be in welfare to work, i used to be in welfare to work, i constantly see british i would constantly see british people they people refused jobs because they think either think they're either too qualified, good , can't be qualified, too good, can't be bothered, the right hours or bothered, not the right hours or just don't fancy it. so we always wonder, okay, why should we migrants to come in and we allow migrants to come in and take jobs? but don't even take our jobs? but we don't even want ourselves ? want these jobs ourselves? >> yeah, i think that's a really good point. benjamin think good point. benjamin and i think there of brits who there are a lot of brits who maybe have a bit of an arrogance. they think they think they're going to start on loads of money and they don't have to

climb the ladder and, you know, think know all? think they know it all? >> no, i don't think that's fair. i mean, for a start, brits work some the longest hours work some of the longest hours of any western economy and we're one of the least. i'm not sure that's true. one of the least. i'm not sure tha yeah,e. one of the least. i'm not sure tha yeah, that's not. that's >> yeah, that's not. that's true. >> e also e.- e of the least >> we're also one of the least efficient in europe. so the hours we and the hours we work and the productivity that comes out of it do not correlate just a bit. >> rubbish then. it >> rubbish then. well it suggests a lot people at work suggests a lot of people at work are that much. are not doing that much. >> and that's broader >> right. and that's a broader problem. you're problem. i think you're absolutely the absolutely right to say that the reward for work does not make absolutely right to say that the reward if r work does not make absolutely right to say that the reward if you rk does not make absolutely right to say that the reward if you look es not make absolutely right to say that the reward if you look es the make absolutely right to say that the reward if you look es the costa sense. if you look at the cost of housing, particularly in big cities south—east, then cities in the south—east, then it's difficult to get on it's very difficult to get on that ladder for lots of that housing ladder for lots of salaries moment. and you salaries at the moment. and you can that puts people off can see why that puts people off pursuing same way. pursuing work in the same way. >> work is not >> yeah, but work is not just about monetary gain. it's about well—being. about feeling well—being. it's about feeling fulfilled. it's about making your mark in the world to get up in the morning say, i'm in the morning and say, i'm adding this. i'm being adding to this. i'm being success my role. and success within my role. and i think just look at money, think if we just look at money, we're to satisfied. >> i mean, let me just say, which is i agree with you. first of slightly easier to

of all, it's slightly easier to say if you've managed to the say if you've managed to get the security few security of owning a few properties to feel like that. right. advantage of right. you have the advantage of because i've worked butt off because i've worked my butt off multiple many jobs have had? >> how many jobs have you had? >> how many jobs have you had? >> have several >> i've had well, i have several jobs now. oh, amazing. so jobs right now. oh, amazing. so why can't people do the newspaper? of. exactly. >> p.- >> benjamin, you are a shining example who will get example of someone who will get up the morning, up early in the morning, whatever whenever. whatever day, weekend, whenever. stay up late to do. >> you know, i'm full of a cold today. whatever you need, you're still going to still here. i'm just going to say, actually to agree with lynn that i was 16 and i was that when i was 16 and i was raised my grandparents raised by my grandparents and they even they were very clear, even though maybe they had the finances for whatever was finances to pay for whatever was needed, going needed, they were not going to give the you go out give me the money. you go out and get a job and pay and you get a job and you pay for yourself. and i got a job in a centre 16 and it built a call centre at 16 and it built my confidence and socialised me in has changed the in a way that has changed the rest of my life. and that's why i think, you sell anything? rest of my life. and that's why i tiout you sell anything? rest of my life. and that's why i tiout and you sell anything? rest of my life. and that's why i tiout and get sell anything? rest of my life. and that's why i tiout and get aell anything? rest of my life. and that's why i tiout and get a job.1ything? go out and get a job. >> did you to sell anything? >> i was number one. i worked in two number two call centres. i was number one sales of all time, one telly sales of all time, gift of gab. gift of the gab. >> that was probably great experience for journalism. absolutely gab.

absolutely gift of the gab. albie, think? are we albie, what do you think? are we work ? work shy? >> well, think what's really >> well, i think what's really interesting this survey is >> well, i think what's really irthinkting this survey is >> well, i think what's really irthink they this survey is >> well, i think what's really irthink they surveyed survey is >> well, i think what's really irthink they surveyed ajrvey is >> well, i think what's really irthink they surveyed a number i think they surveyed a number of different countries europe of different countries in europe . and actually, i think we can probably that taxation . and actually, i think we can proba)ly that taxation . and actually, i think we can proba lot that taxation . and actually, i think we can proba lot of that taxation . and actually, i think we can proba lot of otherat taxation . and actually, i think we can proba lot of other economiction and a lot of other economic situations going on at the moment, most the european moment, most of the european countries similar. yet countries are quite similar. yet brits to be the ones that brits seem to be the ones that don't think work is going to pay off the end . and why is off in the end. and so why is that equivalent economies off in the end. and so why is that france, |uivalent economies off in the end. and so why is that france, germanyzconomies off in the end. and so why is that france, germany and)mies off in the end. and so why is that france, germany and they; like france, germany and they seem to think working does pay even though there's similar or higher taxation. but higher levels of taxation. but in britain , we don't think in britain, we don't think work is pay off. i can't is going to pay off. i can't quite my finger why that quite put my finger on why that might be. >> i think innately us as brits, we to moan . i think we like to have a moan. i think also feeds into the current also it feeds into the current culture, especially with gen z and millennials, that and younger millennials, that when people overnight when we see people overnight becoming a success, whether it's on the internet , it and such and on the internet, it and such and such things like that, it makes you why should i get up and you feel why should i get up and go to my 9 to 5 when mr so—and—so has made 20,000 being on instagram for like a year ? i on instagram for like a year? i think this is feeding into a lot

of people, but they don't see the that goes into that. the work that goes into that. >> most will >> i mean, most people will roll their they think of their eyes and they think of instagram influencers, but most instagram influencers, but most instagram put instagram influencers do put in a of graft working in a lot of graft while working in other begin with. that's a lot of graft while working in oth

>> let me know. let me know. but i remember my granddad saying, you know, he was born in 1930. he's god rest him. but he's gone now. god rest him. but he used to say when he a he used to say when he was a kid, he cycle out and go kid, he would cycle out and go look for work. norman tebbit said same thing get your said the same thing get on your bike, your bike. lost bike, get on your bike. lost that that that generation. we've lost that spirit , that sort of idea of spirit, that sort of idea of going out and doing it. so what i would say, emily, is that we need to back national need to bring back national service need to service now. it doesn't need to look doesn't need to look look it doesn't need to look like did in the past. do like what it did in the past. do it first. >> like to see that where >> i'd like to see that where they actually have to take up some of work a community some form of work in a community where to be around where they have to be around people actually build up skill. >> i think that's so good. i mean, just looking at both of you, benjamin and darren, you said did these call centre said you did these call centre hairdresser that is just can be life changing, right? just having those conversations, building confidence a building that confidence as a teenagen building that confidence as a teenager. so many teenagers now can't string a sentence together, can't pick the together, can't pick up the phone , can't to someone in phone, can't talk to someone in a the problem. a shop. is the problem. >> young people work or a shop. is the problem. >:the ung people work or a shop. is the problem. >:the ung peopolder work or a shop. is the problem. >:the ung peopolder peoplek or a shop. is the problem. >:the ung peopolder people who is the problem older people who are economically inactive? >> true, too. >> well, that's true, too. >> well, that's true, too. >> these >> when we have these

conversations who >> when we have these con out ations who >> when we have these con out ofons who >> when we have these con out of work. who >> when we have these con out of work. actually, who are out of work. actually, it's not necessarily younger not necessarily the younger people. it's the older people that decided don't that have decided they don't want to go back into work. well, at least them do at least many of them do actually at least many of them do act|butr at least many of them do act|but i think we need to >> but i think we need to encourage employers in employing >> but i think we need to enc�*olderz employers in employing >> but i think we need to enc�*older generations in employing >> but i think we need to enc�*older generations ,�*| employing >> but i think we need to enc�*older generations , because ing the older generations, because oftentimes up against oftentimes if they're up against some these young some of these chatter, young people whiz on people that are whiz on technology, just dismiss technology, they just dismiss them when they have a wealth of experience and knowledge. so i think employers need to employ more people couldn't agree more. i think that's very true. >> i think that's very true. there's ageism in there's so much ageism in recruitment . yes. recruitment. yes. >> but do you actually think, though, get though, that we're going to get anywhere on do you think anywhere on this or do you think actually be actually we're destined to be a nafion actually we're destined to be a nation rac? nation of rac? >> know, because we're >> i don't know, because we're pumping people with i pumping young people with i don't if it's propaganda or don't know if it's propaganda or just constantly. just bad news constantly. they're be getting they're not going to be getting on want on so many young people want to move countries clearly move countries because clearly they that's easy way they think that's the easy way out. to going be out. it's not to going be greener you know, out. it's not to going be greecrack you know, out. it's not to going be greecrack on, you know, out. it's not to going be greecrack on, work you know, out. it's not to going be greecrack on, work hard, now, out. it's not to going be greecrack on, work hard, do v, well. >> it's the reward for work is much greater in countries like australia or canada at the moment than it is in britain. well, and i think the labour well, i and i think the labour party taxes, party cutting our taxes, benjamin lower under benjamin so do i. lower under the ahead? the last labour ahead? >> mei is going have her

>> lin mei is going to have her say she reckons are say on those. she reckons are dividing country . are you dividing our country. are you with the saturday live on

gb news. >> welcome back to the saturday five. >> welcome back to the saturday five.thank >> welcome back to the saturday five. thank you for your emails to connor says no i'm not having it emily you can keep sticking up your type if you wish. up for your type if you wish. but once generation of but once this generation of greedy have it alls are done, there'll left for the there'll be nothing left for the kids no matter how kids of tomorrow. no matter how hard they work. gosh, depressing. are they? lot depressing. are they? a lot of people feel like that, but at people do feel like that, but at first it's what we've got to move on. i'm flabbergasted by that one. i got it completely wrong, clearly. but it's time for debate. for our next debate. >> next, it's lin mei >> yes. up next, it's lin mei who will be taking on those who create divide us where she reckons none ought to exist. take it away. lynn may may i say, i think it's about time that we eradicate the whole ideology of race and we all want racism to be completely wiped

off the face of the earth. >> what better way to do it than to actually get rid of the ideology of race? there is oftentimes so many people, you know, white, this, black that. and if we look historically at race, it was created around the 16005. race, it was created around the 1600s. doesn't really mean anything. let's even look at the term white. what does white mean 7 term white. what does white mean ? who is actually even white? go into the sun for ten minutes. you're no longer white, even though you weren't initially were to begin with. black. though you weren't initially were does to begin with. black. though you weren't initially were does blackgin with. black. though you weren't initially were does black mean?|. black. though you weren't initially were does black mean? andick. though you weren't initially were does black mean? and for what does black mean? and for people online, they people who are online, they often create massive divide often create this massive divide and often to try and make money and often to try and make money and forward their own careers with the likes of, say, kehinde andrews, who is a professor of black studies, who what black studies, who knows what that means for the likes of sophie corcoran, who likes to now be the ambassador for white people where doesn't people where she doesn't actually represent many white actually represent so many white people out there. and of course they're not to defend they're not here to defend themselves. obviously themselves. these are obviously my on what i see, but my opinions on what i see, but if we want to unite britain , why if we want to unite britain, why are trying to are we constantly trying to barrage with this whole stupid out of date, redundant term

race? now let's look at the different groups in the world. i won't be able to finish all of them, but let's say, for example, scots, english, ukrainians , russians. there is ukrainians, russians. there is a diverse amount of people who we would once upon a time would have just said, are all white, they're all culturally different , all have their own different ways of living. the same with black people, people from, let's say, from nigeria do not necessarily relate to those from jamaica. so let's completely get rid of race. >> ooh, interesting. >> ooh, interesting. >> hello . i want to start with >> hello. i want to start with darren and i've often seen you chat spinning and there's nothing actually wrong with it. i think we should be proud of who we are, but when i see you say, you know, often times white people in, let's say seaside areas are now not finding the benefits of being in the uk and there are forgotten group. do you think that terms like white actually makes any sense?

>> well, i mean, first of all, you said there that, you know , you said there that, you know, white people, you go into the sun for a little bit. i could go. i could live on the sun. i still wouldn't get tan. how still wouldn't get a tan. how did get your tan now? did you get your tan now? >> i was about to say, based on that fake talent, i think you are talent. are a fake talent. >> quickly point if >> i just quickly point if we just this you just see here this is what you would white, would you say would call white, would you say that's the same colour? because i wouldn't. well yeah, i wouldn't. well i mean, yeah, right, fine. >> white? well, i think >> are you white? well, i think i am. yes, i think so. >> but do you think the term colour to reduce ourselves to a colour. >> well i don't think it's useful a metric for what i, useful as a metric for what i, what i've probably been talking about you mentioned about, which you mentioned there, been there, which would have been white working class kids, you know, like know, from communities like that, come from but not know, from communities like that that, come from but not know, from communities like thatthat, up come from but not know, from communities like thatthat, up andie from but not know, from communities like thatthat, up and down] but not know, from communities like thatthat, up and down the�*ut not just that, up and down the country actually do think country who actually i do think have been forgotten and who are doing significantly worse in education than their black counterparts. now, that's it's great that black counterparts are doing so well at school, are fantastic. but how do we actually talk about getting white working class kids to do

better at school? but then without mentioning them, speak about without mentioning them, speak abo because without mentioning them, speak abobecause if without mentioning them, speak abo because if we just say white, >> because if we just say white, there are multitudes of, let's say middle to upper class people that have idea of the that have no idea of the experience of a white working class individual. why not get rid of the term white? >> i think we need to get rid of the term bame and it does seem to have got less fashionable now. black and minority ethnic because there are so many disparities between different groups and you can't just pit one massive blob . against the white. >> why not white if we're going to get rid of bame? because as well. >> it's just factual, though, isn't it? what's factual? well, there are white people and there are people, but there's are black people, but there's so many people in. >> i think i think i think >> but i think i think i think the question is, why we the question is, is why do we hold gravity terms like hold such gravity to terms like black and white when actually it is no more important than blonde or ginger or brunette or black hair? we don't divide people based on their hair colour. so

why does it make sense to divide people based on you? >> want to go back to what? emily? sorry if it's factual, why then are there so many people actually people that don't actually belong so you have belong to a colour? so you have black and white. what are asian then? brown. then? they're not called brown. you have chinese you have arabs, you have chinese people. not called any people. they're not called any colour. people. they're not called any colotcompletely agree with you. >> i completely agree with you. and agree with you to and that's i agree with you to an extent, because don't an extent, because i don't think that at to all call that it's helpful at to all call someone has dark skin, black someone who has dark skin, black and group people together under the umbrella of black. when we have afro—caribbean , we have have afro—caribbean, we have mixed race, we have african, we have so many different countries where people can have dark skin . and then of course, you have asian people you all asian people and you have all sorts. don't think sorts. i mean, i don't think it's good to lump in it's good to lump people in together, often together, but i think we often talk about disparities between groups within black or within asian in this country. groups within black or within asian in this country . and so asian in this country. and so it's useful to be able to delineate between people, even if not based on white or black. >> yeah. what do you think, ben? because emily's because i see that emily's placing heavy emphasis not placing heavy emphasis on not calling black people or asian people, but i'm still if we're

going not call black people going to not call black people that because there's so much different know, nuances, that because there's so much diffe|i nt know, nuances, that because there's so much diffe|i think know, nuances, that because there's so much diffe|i think white w, nuances, that because there's so much diffe|i think white should|ces, that because there's so much diffe|i think white should be ;, that because there's so much diffe|i think white should be the then i think white should be the same. ukrainians , they're same. scots ukrainians, they're all the same. would you all not the same. would you agree disagree? agree or disagree? >> it would rewriting >> i think it would be rewriting history to pretend that the terms as terms don't mean anything or as though equivalent though it is equivalent to being ginger brown, but ginger or blonde or brown, but biologically it quite literally is. yes. but that's not the reality of society, only reality of human society, only because ideology. go because of ideology. if you go to pretty recent history in the us, people that had all sorts of fundamental rights taken away who held as slaves , that who were held as slaves, that was because they had black skin. and so i think you can't pretend that that isn't way in which that that isn't the way in which lots of people have come about in world, family in the world, their family history, experience of how history, their experience of how they're treated. of course, it's irrational all a variety of irrational all in a variety of ways , but it is real. ways, but it is real. >> but then we do rewrite the term race because when was term race because when there was a people that came a lot of polish people that came into had a into this country, we then had a box said white other. i was box that said white other. i was initially referred to as black, then in 2001, there was a consensus formulated and now i'm mixed. so now it keeps changing.

>> it's all very confusing , but >> it's all very confusing, but cheers very much . cheers very much. >> lynn, me there with a very thought provoking one. one last email mark says, has benji had a bang on the head? i've agreed with him twice tonight. we are next up tonight it's the brilliant mark dolan. cheers very much for watching. we'll see you again next week where you might agree with benjamin again. who knows ? again. who knows? >> the temperature's rising . >> the temperature's rising. boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> good evening, my name is rachel ayers and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast brought to you by the met office . so it's been another very warm or hot day, especially across the southeast today. and that's because we've still got a bit of a southerly component to our winds bringing in that warm to hot air across us from the continent. showers we've seen through today will slowly ease as we go through tonight. but another area of heavy showers and thunder storms will start to

push eastwards from the southwest. so if you are in the southwest. so if you are in the southwest tonight, you might be woken up by the odd thunderstorm . and all during another . and this is all during another warm and humid night. so as we go into the start of sunday, those showers will slowly make their way north eastwards into wales , the midlands, northern wales, the midlands, northern england , northern ireland and england, northern ireland and later into the southern scotland. and these showers could band together, bringing some heavy rain and thunderstorms as well as the risk of some hail and some strong gusty winds. but it will be another very warm day, especially in the south—east with highs of 32. now to start the new working week. plenty of low cloud mist and fog in the north and west to start with. some showers breaking out later. but this rain erratically making its way south eastwards, marking a change to something slightly cooler as we go into next week where it will feel quite changeable and autumnal with those temperatures closer to average . and the temperatures

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gb news. >> it's 9:00 on television, on radio and online in the united kingdom and across the world. this is a sweltering, hot burning , hot mark dolan tonight burning, hot mark dolan tonight in my big opinion, as creepy activists try to make all university students go vegan . we university students go vegan. we will be next. those forcing plant based down our neck can burger off in a special edition of dial dolan, in which i'll be taking your video calls live on air. i'll be asking, as the chancellor plans major cuts is britain's welfare bill now too high? plus, should eco anxiety be recognised as a mental health condition known also as dominic cummings is rumoured to be

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