gb news. >> good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey show. there's a word for this show today is big because today and it is big because we've got a big lined up. we've got a big show lined up. we've lots and lots we've got lots and lots happening. i mean, the news agenda been really busy, agenda has been really busy, hasn't it.7 obviously with the fugitive terror suspect daniel kalief after being on the kalief caught after being on the run for three days, apprehended yesterday . we're going to be yesterday. we're going to be speaking ministry of speaking to the ministry of justice. chief alex justice. this is chief alex chalk, the justice secretary, to ask him, look, is there a problem with the prison service? is your department to blame for this perhaps fault with this? perhaps it's a fault with the security services not necessarily with necessarily communicating with each other with regard to this

man's incarceration? so we're man's incarceration? an so we're deaung man's incarceration? an so we're dealing that dealing with all of that a little later in the show. also, after a ruthless labour reshuffle, this keir reshuffle, this week by keir starmer, blairite into starmer, which put blairite into a number of key roles, i'll be speaking to tony blair's former right hand man, then right hand man, his then political secretary, john mcternan. also be speaking mcternan. i'll also be speaking to lord theodore agnew. you're probably remember him because he resigned and house of resigned and in the house of lords over the shambolic treatment by the treasury of the covid loan crisis . since the covid loan crisis. since the fraud crisis, which cost us billions of pounds and the government didn't really do anything be anything about it. so i'll be speaking to him about whether the treasury fit for purpose, the treasury is fit for purpose, what should happen the treasury is fit for purpose, what taxes, should happen the treasury is fit for purpose, what taxes, whetherd happen the treasury is fit for purpose, what taxes, whether we're)en the treasury is fit for purpose, what taxes, whether we're being about taxes, whether we're being productive enough productive and growing enough and finally, in an exclusive interview , i'm going to be interview, i'm going to be joined in the studio by the legendary broadcaster alastair stewart, who'll be revealing all about his decision to step back from gb news earlier this year. trust me, you won't want to miss it. so we'll delighted to see it. so we'll be delighted to see al the studio he al back in the studio that he knows of all, knows best. but first of all, let's run through some of the front as i say, it's been front pages as i say, it's been a agenda this

a very busy news agenda this weekend . the sunday weekend. the sunday telegraph goes with that story of daniel kalief terror suspect laughed after arrest . sunday times kalief terror suspect laughed after arrest. sunday times has got a very good story on the front, which we'll be dealing with in just a moment. commons chinese spy arrested . be chinese spy arrested. be speaking to my paper reviewer about that momentarily . the about that momentarily. the observer revealed new natwest boss linked to saudi scandal firm . so that's the newly firm. so that's the newly appointed chairman often seems to be in a degree of hot water. already the mail on sunday spooks, bugs, phones to nail jailbreak spy this is about how the security services mi5, mi6 and others all collaborated to try and catch daniel califf, the sunday express again goes with that story. police catch fugitive on canal bike ride . fugitive on canal bike ride. this is him being, i think in chiswick and then trying to make his way to northolt sun on sunday simply says got him which isuppose sunday simply says got him which i suppose is a tabloid way of summing story . and then summing up the story. and then again, the mirror. same story.

terror fugitive bragged i'll escape. just watched me . well escape. just watched me. well without further ado, let me bnng without further ado, let me bring into the conversation sam lister. she's political editor of the daily express. lovely to see you this morning, sam. you've had busy week, haven't you've had a busy week, haven't you, first week back? you, with first week back? >> yeah, week. it was a >> yeah, first week. it was a busy one. >> concrete crises. we've got rishi india . we've got rishi sunak in india. we've got this who's now being this escapee who's now being caught. let's talk about that story, sunday express, story, which the sunday express, your paper has splashed. your sister paper has splashed. he's found . and but having he's been found. and but having mentioned concrete and other matters, it's not been the greatest look for the government this week, sort of losing control of this terrorist suspect. >> it hasn't. and the first week back of a new parliamentary kind of usually is a point back of a new parliamentary kind of the sually is a point back of a new parliamentary kind of the governmentoint back of a new parliamentary kind of the government tries to where the government tries to set the agenda and actually what's happened is with the school's concrete that school's concrete crisis that dominated the first few days, and obviously caliph's and then obviously with caliph's escape, that's that's dominated the back of week . now, the back end of the week. now, the back end of the week. now, the for the government the problem for the government is this just even is that this just even though technically not be the technically it may not be the fault, be fault of

fault, it may be the fault of the prison and the the prison governor and the people working in people who were working in wandsworth on a on a kind wandsworth jail on a on a kind of very practical front. it plays into that greater sense of this government is losing control of things. and that's a real problem them now. alex real problem for them now. alex chalk is obviously on your show later he say, well, later on. he will say, well, look, investigate look, we've got to investigate options. can't say options. we can't really say anything report back. anything until they report back. but of people are but actually a lot of people are saying this is a wider problem. this is something that's been around for a decade. this is we've the prison service, we've had the prison service, the prison problems in the prison service problems in the prison service problems in the service . and the prison service. and actually, i a quick look actually, i had a quick look back chris grayling when he back at chris grayling when he was in in charge, nicknamed failing grayling. absolutely. and he obviously imposed cuts at the time of austerity obe and evenin the time of austerity obe and even in 2014, he was having to denyin even in 2014, he was having to deny in 2014 that the prison system was in crisis because there was a rise in suicides , there was a rise in suicides, there was a rise in suicides, there was a rise in suicides, there was an increase in prison violence and, you know, these things did not look great at the time. a decade on, obviously, you kind of reap what you say on these things. so i think it is a

problem for the government, but actually also the i think one of the big problems is and i know you touched on it earlier, that the number experienced police the number of experienced police officers prison officers officers, prison officers diminish that greatly around that time . and it left a lot of that time. and it left a lot of younger prison officers. >> grayling brought in his reforms. to squeeze reforms. he tried to squeeze the workforce of them just workforce and a lot of them just said, sod this, i retire. said, oh, sod this, i retire. and then that's an and then that's left an inexperience at younger people trying inmates that trying to deal with inmates that might criminals. might be hardened criminals. they've inside longer they've been inside for longer than officers. than the prison officers. exactly >> longer than they've >> yeah. longer than they've been occasions. >> yeah. longer than they've beerthey occasions. >> yeah. longer than they've beerthey are occasions. >> yeah. longer than they've beerthey are green. occasions. >> yeah. longer than they've beerthey are green. they:asions. >> yeah. longer than they've beerthey are green. they are)ns. and they are green. they are more open to kind of being threatened by those prisoners . threatened by those prisoners. so, you know, they are not they don't have the experience to deal with those hardened criminals. >> we're once again going to have an investigation because we've got questions answer we've got questions to answer that doubt lessons that will no doubt say lessons have been until the next have been learned until the next person escapes prison. person escapes from a prison. indeed, other are not indeed, the other are not particularly great story for the government that's in the front of the sunday times. we've called it spy the ointment. called it spy in the ointment. i mean, that's to put mildly,

mean, that's to put it mildly, right? idea that we've had right? this idea that we've had 1 or chinese. well chinese 1 or 2 chinese. well chinese spies acting as researchers, i mean, the fact that they've penetrated the security systems at the house of commons is one thing. but equally, the fact that they've got close to two key mps explain the significance of who they may have been working for and what they might have found out. >> well, is the thing. it's >> well, this is the thing. it's tom tugendhat, who is the security minister, alicia kearns, chairs the kearns, who is chairs the foreign select committee foreign affairs select committee . people who are . and these are people who are very hawkish china. very kind of hawkish on china. yeah and the researcher apparently is very close to or was very close to those two mps. now, i think tom tugendhat people have made it clear that actually once he became security minister, there was no contact with this particular researcher i >> -- >> but then you don't know what the researchers managed to pick up out of of the up out of any of the governmental or other files. >> actually, >> indeed. and actually, although researcher >> indeed. and actually, althouin researcher >> indeed. and actually, althouin parliamentsearcher >> indeed. and actually, althouin parliament aren'tar >> indeed. and actually, althouin parliament aren't so based in parliament aren't so they don't have access to government secrets and that kind

of thing. it is somebody who will be well placed to pick up all the gossip. yes that's a key thing. and also the direction of travel that these mps who object to our current relationship with china the way they want to kind of proceed on that. and so this person was in a key position really to get that information. you're right about the kind of ear to the ground, because actually , if you're just and actually, if you're just in and around mps , yeah, you're picking around mps, yeah, you're picking up so much stuff that isn't written it might be in written down and it might be in portcullis some of portcullis house hearing some of the what different the gossip and what different mps each other, mps think about each other, which damaging of our which could be damaging of our reputation overseas. >> i'm interested by rishi sunaks reaction to this this morning because we had the briefing from the spokesman saying, yeah, taken this saying, oh yeah, he's taken this up chinese premier up with the chinese premier and then that then he adds that into a broadcast . what's trying to broadcast. what's he trying to achieve that, think? achieve with that, do you think? >> appease >> well, he's trying to appease the very china mps in the very hawkish china mps in his party. he said that he took this premier li. he's this to premier li. he's confronted premier about confronted premier li about this. premier li is attending in the place of president ji , who

the place of president ji, who has refused to go to the g20. so but rishi sunak has had this meeting. he has raised this with him. he wants to show he's not soft on china. but by the same token , he also is defending the token, he also is defending the government's position . he says government's position. he says there's no point not engaging with china. you have to deal with china. you have to deal with the realities of the world. china is a huge, important yeah, he's a global player, more pragmatic about it than, say, some. he really is. >> and others who would rather we didn't have any relations at all. one of many all. but then he's one of many mps have been placed under mps that have been placed under sanctions by so what do sanctions by china. so what do you we must talk about you do? we must just talk about the earthquake tragedy in morocco. the sun's headline there pretty much summing it up. it was like someone picked up the hotel room and shook it . i the hotel room and shook it. i mean, in many respects , of mean, in many respects, of course, we're always obsessed with domestic matters and our own politics. this is the own politics. but this is the biggest of the weekend biggest story of the weekend really . thousands of deaths, really. thousands of deaths, 2000, least 2000 people. 2000, at least 2000 people. >> i mean, absolutely >> i mean, it's absolutely tragic. think the sun, the tragic. i think the sun, the picture, they've got a picture

spread . and i think that really spread. and i think that really sums it up. the picture just shows the in her hands. shows the head in her hands. yeah absolute yeah shows the absolute devastation . really devastation. it really is a tragedy . and it is at times like tragedy. and it is at times like this that the uk and other nafions this that the uk and other nations will obviously be there assisting morocco in this time of need . of need. >> and let's talk about the opposition now . we're calling it opposition now. we're calling it a keir crackdown. it's not necessarily an interview he's given to the sunday times, but let's be honest, tim shipman seems to have had fairly seems to have had a fairly generous briefing. i think it's fair the labour fair sources close to the labour leader in which he is saying that only he can bring order to the border. do you believe him, sam? well i'll i mean, this is the big question. >> is it will voters believe him? that's that's the truth. i think it's interesting. they've gone for for order the border. they're obviously trying to ape the motives the conservative motives with obviously the conservatives over the a very the last few years have a very successful based successful elections based around slogans, take back around catchy slogans, take back control , for example. it's control, for example. it's interesting. >> it might be an appeal. it might be an appeal to this viewer listenership. gb viewer and listenership. gb news. and i'd like to give a

message now to the labour leader if you want to come on and address the audience, direct. he is lovely seat for you is a lovely warm seat for you here. you can have a nice q&a session, maybe do a or no session, maybe do a yes or no game we quite like playing game that we quite like playing with politicians, with top politicians, so please do you're always welcome. >> i think actually there >> and i think actually there will be a point, camilla, where he does take on that will be a point, camilla, where he does he'll on that will be a point, camilla, where he does he'll have on that will be a point, camilla, where he does he'll have to.n that will be a point, camilla, where he does he'll have to. thist will be a point, camilla, where he does he'll have to. this is because he'll have to. this is the thing our audience demands it it. and also but it and deserves it. and also but the they the labour party, they are desperate they they want desperate to win. they they want to win. and they are now engaging with the parts of the media that they certainly under the era, did not engage the corbyn era, did not engage with because know that they with because they know that they have to reach out to particularly red wall voters, people who don't or haven't trusted them in the past on immigration. ian. so i think it's very interesting that they immigration. ian. so i think it's now interesting that they immigration. ian. so i think it's now tryingsting that they immigration. ian. so i think it's now trying torg that they immigration. ian. so i think it's now trying to showt they immigration. ian. so i think it's now trying to show theyy immigration. ian. so i think it's now trying to show they are are now trying to show they are tough i think what the tough on it. i think what the conservatives will is conservatives will say is actually a man who has actually this is a man who has in 2020, he signed a letter against the deportation of foreign criminals , is to put him foreign criminals, is to put him in the lefty lawyer. absolutely he that he opposes the rwanda policy. for example, talking of

lefties, former tory mp rory stewart given an interview to this esteemed channel in which he's talked about anguish. >> mps trying to kill themselves. just very quick themselves. just a very quick word because time word on that, sam, because time is of the essence. spoken is of the essence. he's spoken to gloria del piero. going to gloria del piero. it's going to gloria del piero. it's going to playing michael to be playing in michael portillo's show after my show at 11. portillo's show after my show at h. does portillo's show after my show at 11. does he have a point? 11. but does he have a point? mps suicidal ? is social media mps suicidal? is it social media to pressure that to blame and the pressure that they public scrutiny, they face from public scrutiny, do think? they face from public scrutiny, do i think? they face from public scrutiny, do i thirthink it's actually >> i don't think it's actually social really. mean, social media, really. i mean, that terrible of the that is a terrible part of the job. it is, is job. but what it is, is parliament a pressure cooker job. but what it is, is pand ment a pressure cooker job. but what it is, is pand particularly'essure cooker job. but what it is, is pand particularly since; cooker job. but what it is, is pand particularly since brexitzr . and particularly since brexit and covid and mps being and covid and mps were being forced vote for things that forced to vote for things that they agree with and they just didn't agree with and they've put up under they've been put up under enormous pressure and they've really struggled. actually, i think some people have had a really time. all right. really tough time. all right. >> tuned that >> well, stay tuned for that because good because that'll be a good interview show. but interview in the next show. but for stick with my for now, let's stick with my show and let's see what the people's panel is up to. because today we tooting today i think we are in tooting and olivia utley there, and and olivia utley is there, and i'd love to know olivia not least because got least because i've got the justice chalk, justice secretary, alex chalk, on your panellists on with me what your panellists would ask him and all would like to ask him and all the guests i've got coming on

the guests i've got coming on the show today . the show today. >> hello. yes, i am in sunny tooting this morning. the traders are just opening up the market and i think people here in wandsworth are breathing a big sigh of relief that daniel califf back behind bars. and califf is back behind bars. and we're very lucky today to be hosted in the brickwood cafe right in the middle of glorious tooting market. now, i used to live around here and i can vouch for your superb banana bread, but generally, how are you finding businesses going? >> it's it's getting hard >> it's hard. it's getting hard times , especially hit by times, especially being hit by big bills . utilities are killing big bills. utilities are killing us. we pay overjust big bills. utilities are killing us. we pay over just over £5,000 a month on electricity. that's just three times over the rent . just three times over the rent. so and ever since brexit, it's even harder . even harder. >> thank you very much. and i'm sure lots of small businesses will really sympathise with that. £5,000 on electricity. that really feels unsustainable. i wonder what rishi sunak will do about that in the coming yeah do about that in the coming year. but thank you again for having us. here. it is really

great to be in tooting. and now i will introduce you to our brilliant people's panel. today. we've tony. we've ollie, brilliant people's panel. today. we'\we've tony. we've ollie, brilliant people's panel. today. we'\we've got 1. we've ollie, brilliant people's panel. today. we'\we've got kirsten ollie, brilliant people's panel. today. we'\we've got kirsten and ollie, brilliant people's panel. today. we'\we've got kirsten and tony. and we've got kirsten and tony. i'm going to start with you now . now, obviously, everyone is very, very pleased that daniel cliff is back behind bars. but there has been some criticism of this conservative government that he was able to escape in the first place. some people are saying that the state of britain's aren't up britain's prisons just aren't up to scratch . now, camilla is to scratch. now, camilla is going to be talking to alex chalk, the justice secretary, later. what you have to say later. what do you have to say to about state to him about the state of britain's well we've britain's prisons? well we've been a lot about prisons been hearing a lot about prisons and in particular the local mp highlighted the fact that at one point at wandsworth, there was only on for a only seven warders on for a night duty of 1500 prisoners and i think that's where some of the concern lies, that where money is being allocated to things. >> but it doesn't seem to be employed correct or employed in the correct or effective way. thank you very much. >> that's really interesting. so perhaps it's not not just about

how much money is being spent, it's about the way it's being allocated now. ollie, what do you make of that? do you think it's a funding issue? you know, labour perhaps labour have said that perhaps there might be enough money there might not be enough money going into the prison sector altogether, you think it altogether, or do you think it is more a question of allocation ? >> 7. >>i ? >> i think it 7_ >> i think it is ? >> i think it is more 7 >> i think it is more of a question of allocation. i mean, there's £4 billion, i believe that government is spending that the government is spending on and on the prison service and creating new prison creating 20,000 new prison places in a new building programme . so it is more about programme. so it is more about how we get more out of the workforce that actually have workforce that we actually have . and i think, yes, it . and also i do think, yes, it is a terror suspect and it is very bad that he was able to escape have remember, escape. but we have to remember, i only been four i think there's only been four escapee since 2017, escapee prisoners since 2017, four, not hundreds like the pubuc four, not hundreds like the public might think. four. so i think we do need to maybe think we don't need to do wide scale reform, just over one escapee. >> that's a really interesting point. and i'm sure alex trott will be will be very pleased that you've made it. and what do you think about that, kirsten? i mean, ollie is suggesting there you think about that, kirsten? i mea that lie is suggesting there you think about that, kirsten? i mea that lie is sugthis:ing there you think about that, kirsten? i mea that lie is sugthis isg there

you think about that, kirsten? i mea that lie is sugthis is moree that that perhaps this is more of a one off than than the pubuc of a one off than than the public sort being to public are sort of being led to believe moment. do you do believe at the moment. do you do you that? and is you sympathise with that? and is there would there anything you would like to say the justice say to the justice secretary about the prison about the state of the prison sector and this escape particular? >> i think that, you know, >> so i think that, you know, one of the elements related to what happened, you know, here in wandsworth recently is, you know, it will happen at the prison, seems to represent a lot of more broadly of what's happening more broadly within whether it's within the country, whether it's prisons or it's schools or it's our you know , there's our hospitals. you know, there's clearly mismanagement and lack of funding and or mismanagement may be a combination of both . may be a combination of both. and so clearly, there's an issue with the way that this government has been running it. and this has been going and i think this has been going on long time . and i think on for a long time. and i think people want change and i'm hoping that's the hoping that that's what the general reflect. general election will reflect. but one of the things that i wanted to come back briefly wanted to come back to briefly and, know, relation to, and, you know, in relation to, you the prisoner escape you know, the prisoner escape this this week is, you this week, this week is, you know, the police obviously did an him know, the police obviously did ana him know, the police obviously did ana really him know, the police obviously did ana really short him know, the police obviously did ana really short period him know, the police obviously did ana really short period of him in a really short period of time. so just commend time. so just wanting to commend them and obviously m15 for the work done, because them and obviously m15 for the vllhink done, because them and obviously m15 for the vllhink they done, because

them and obviously m15 for the vllhink they did done, because them and obviously m15 for the vllhink they did you»ne, because them and obviously m15 for the vllhink they did you know, cause them and obviously m15 for the vllhink they did you know, they; i think they did you know, they did great catching him. there aren't many . when there did great catching him. there are|obviouslyany . when there did great catching him. there are|obviously puts, when there did great catching him. there are|obviously puts, you nhen there did great catching him. there are|obviously puts, you know, here are obviously puts, you know, a whole so whole borough at risk. and so i think they great job on that. >> thank you very much. really nice to end with a positive message. sure that lots message. and i'm sure that lots of and the of people up and down the country will be echoing that sentiment. our sentiment. so that's what our people's panel here in wandsworth say this wandsworth have to say this morning. coming to morning. we'll be coming back to us heard from us after we've heard from camilla's this morning. camilla's guests this morning. but now, to you in the studio. >> great job, olivia. thank you so and thank you all of so much. and thank you to all of our panellists. now, so much. and thank you to all of our delightedianellists. now, so much. and thank you to all of our delightedian be sts. now, so much. and thank you to all of our delightedian be joined w, i'm delighted to be joined by alex , the justice alex chalk, the justice secretary conservative alex chalk, the justice sec cheltenham. inservative alex chalk, the justice seccheltenham. lovelytive alex chalk, the justice seccheltenham. lovely toe alex chalk, the justice seccheltenham. lovely to speak for cheltenham. lovely to speak to you morning, minister. to you this morning, minister. i know had a very busy week know you've had a very busy week andindeed know you've had a very busy week and indeed weekend. let's start with daniel califano with the daniel califano recapture we had charlie recapture now we had charlie taylor, the inspector of prisons, recommending that wandsworth prison be closed down. i understand you've moved, what is it, 42 prisoners from wandsworth. surely if you're having to move prisoners because of concerns about the prison, then itself isn't fit then the prison itself isn't fit for purpose . for purpose. >> well, can i start, first of all, by echoing something that came from your people's panel,

which to thank police for which is to thank the police for having exceptional job which is to thank the police for havi also exceptional job which is to thank the police for havi also to exceptional job which is to thank the police for havi also to iterate :eptional job which is to thank the police for havi also to iterate these|al job which is to thank the police for havi also to iterate these are ob and also to iterate these are very, very rare incidents and much rarer than incidentally, than about 20 years ago. >> but we take it extremely seriously , which is why i've seriously, which is why i've instituted two investigations. first, into the circumstances of what happened and specifically the alleged escape. and second, in terms of the categorisation. and i asked for preliminary conclusions to be on my desk by the end of the week, which is today. and what i can tell you are your gb news viewers is that the protocols that you would expect to be in place, in other words , to ensure that physical, words, to ensure that physical, for example , that physical head for example, that physical head counts are taken before the call is made to the control office? those were in place and about searching and so on. and also so the security staff were in place. what really remains to be decided or remains to be established is where those protocols followed. and that's what getting to the bottom what we're getting to the bottom of. there's also for an of. and there's also for an added layer of clarity, an independent investigation

mission to ensure those findings are absolutely crystal clear. >> have you moved these >> but why have you moved these 40 of wandsworth? 40 prisoners out of wandsworth? then >> so. so look , plainly this is >> so. so look, plainly this is because we take this so seriously out of an abundance of caution, we've done a number of things to surge resources into wandsworth, as you would expect. for example , there is an for example, there is an additional governor support. so somebody who has experience of working as a governor, but also specific security expertise, additional staff down there to support the prison service. but also as out of an abundance of caution, we've taken 40 out to move elsewhere just as we get to the bottom of what happened. now, that is a sensible interim precautionary step. and i just also want to make the point about about wandsworth. you know, there have been issues with crowding, which i accept , with crowding, which i accept, which goes back for not just five years or 25, 30 years, but the we are doing the difference is we are doing something about it. so very, very investment very significant investment going prisons . 3 or going into prisons. 3 or 2 already built 1—1 currently under construction . and these

under construction. and these are big, big jails. >> but but then there will be people who are listening to that who kind of incredulous who will be kind of incredulous because has because a lot of this has happened tori's watch . and happened under tori's watch. and chris grayling, famously nicknamed failing grayling when he justice secretary , he he was at justice secretary, he was the was criticised was the one who was criticised for bringing these measures, was the one who was criticised for bri effectively ese measures, was the one who was criticised for bri effectively forced zasures, was the one who was criticised for bri effectively forced more s, which effectively forced more experienced prison officers out of work. they decided to retire. it was too all much inexperienced officers came in and you had a situation in some prisons when the inmates seemed to in control. so this has to be in control. so this has happened under tory governance, hasn't ? well, well . hasn't it? well, well, well. >> on the political thing, i think that's i think it's an unfair attack. and say why unfair attack. and i'll say why that last 13 years the that in the last 13 years the number of escapes is around about 20. in the 20 years before, in the 13 years before that, it was about 170. so that's the first point that these are very , very rare. these are very, very rare. that's the first thing. but the second thing is, if this is really, really important, is that the investment that is going in now and has gone on over recent years, incidentally , authorised by prime , authorised by this prime minister chancellor , is the

minister as chancellor, is the biggest investment biggest programme of investment since the victorian era. so it's not just new prisons important though these are it's refurbishing blocks in hmp liverpool, hmp birmingham , in liverpool, in hmp birmingham, in stockton hill. it's stockton and rye hill. it's about rapid deployment. so vast investment going in. and this is the important point, not in response a khalifa incident, response to a khalifa incident, but been going for on but this has been going for on very many years and is really starting a difference. starting to make a difference. >> unfortunately , >> okay. but unfortunately, there this perception, there is this perception, rightly wrongly , that rightly or wrongly, that actually the conservatives haven't been tough on crime or indeed, if i may use the phrase the causes of crime. i look in the causes of crime. i look in the mail on sunday at the moment, mr chalk, and they've had to launch a campaign on to get the police to do more about shoplifting items worth less shoplifting of items worth less than £200. there's this phrase going around called low level crime. the police aren't dealing with low level crime, no crime is low level to the person who's a victim of it, is it? there's this perception that under tory governance and the stance on crime has become softer, not tougher. could you address that,

please , as well ? please, as well? >> that would be wrong and i'll explain why, if i may. so first, there are more police officers than at any time in our history. that's the first thing. but second, if i look at offences which did not exist when we came into power, so i'm particularly passionate trying to passionate about trying to address violence against women passionate about trying to add|girls. olence against women passionate about trying to add|girls. let1ce against women passionate about trying to add|girls. let meagainst women passionate about trying to add|girls. let me saynst women passionate about trying to add|girls. let me say coerciveen and girls. let me say coercive and girls. let me say coercive and controlling behaviour did not exist. non—fatal strangulation was not a specific separate offence. revenge didn't exist. stalking wasn't a crime. so we've created these offences also. it's something dear to my heart that stalking we doubled the maximum sentence. >> no death by dangerous driving. >> it used to be 14 years. now life. so. so all i'm saying is sorry, i've been the victim of going in and the sentencing lengths are there. >> if you're the victim of a burglary, as i have been, and effectively the police says, well, get insurers to well, just get the insurers to deal with it. we're not going to investigate doesn't inspire investigate it doesn't inspire confidence. , can i confidence. well, look, can i just say i'm incredibly sorry that you are a victim of burglary? >> it's a it's a horrible, brutal, violating crime . and,

brutal, violating crime. and, you know, i don't know what happenedin you know, i don't know what happened in your specific case, but it an appalling offence but it is an appalling offence and expect it to be and i would expect it to be investigated. i've been victim investigated. i've been a victim of burglary well, so of burglary as well, so i absolutely that. but all of burglary as well, so i abs> so it's it is 7 >> so it's it is around 60 to 63,000. i think it's important to just put a couple of things in context . no, that's right . in context. no, that's right. but it's important to understand this. first of all, 93% of all crime is actually prosecuted and tried in the magistrates court. that's the first thing. and they're they've snapped back really quite, quite well . as for really quite, quite well. as for the crown court, which you're referring to, we inherited a caseload of around 48,000. it was then about 40,000 before the

pandemic. and then it ticked up. and that's because , you know, and that's because, you know, frankly, there are few systems and our jury system is and ourjury system is incredibly precious and it safeguards rights and liberties and that guilty are and ensures that the guilty are convicted innocent walk convicted and the innocent walk free was very, free and so on. but it was very, very affected covid, very badly affected by covid, which we're working our which is why we're working our way we've huge way through. we've put huge resources . that's we've resources. that's to say we've got nightingale which got nightingale courts, which are 1000 additional are still open, 1000 additional judges for up to £141 million more into legal. so we are working through it. we're putting the downward pressure on that. the final point i want that. and the final point i want to make, if may, is we have to make, if i may, is we have quadrupled victim quadrupled funding for victim services so that those people who are perhaps like you or others who are victims of crime get the support they deserve. >> but we have concluded that the backlog is still as big as it one more it was pre covid. one more question this chinese question on this chinese pie story, i'm sure you've story, which i'm sure you've seen sunday, just very seen on sunday, but just very quickly, went down, it's quickly, it went down, but it's gone up. gone back up. >> go ahead, please. >> yeah, go ahead, please. >> yeah, go ahead, please. >> on the sunday times. >> on the sunday times. >> that's because the >> that's because we had the industrial action. had industrial action. we had industrial action. we had industrial action. we had ind we've action. industrial action. we had ind we've had)n. sunak today. industrial action. we had ind says e had)n. sunak today. industrial action. we had ind says e haitaken sunak today. industrial action. we had ind says e haitaken on|nak today. industrial action. we had ind says e haitaken on this today. industrial action. we had ind says e haitaken on this case i. he says he's taken on this case of chinese spy infiltrating

of this chinese spy infiltrating the with the the house of commons with the chinese premier li. what's your reaction to this story? because this chinese spy appears to have got not only to the got close not only to the security minister also the security minister but also the chair foreign affairs chair of the foreign affairs select ? select committee? >> yeah, well, of course it's significant. it's important. and the parliamentary authority is andindeed the parliamentary authority is and indeed other agencies will no doubt wish to get involved. and that's got to take its course and proceed in stages in the normal way. the general the normal way. but the general point make is that point that i would make is that the prime minister been very the prime minister has been very clear china is an epoch clear that china is an epoch defining challenge. we stand up for values, engage. but for our values, we engage. but we do so with caution and calibration. >> alex chalk, thank you so much for me this morning. forjoining me this morning. thank come thank you for lots more to come on don't forget, on today's show, don't forget, i'll speaking to legendary i'll be speaking to legendary broadcaster stewart, broadcaster alistair stewart, who's all about broadcaster alistair stewart, wh(decision all about broadcaster alistair stewart, wh(decision to all about broadcaster alistair stewart, wh(decision to step all about broadcaster alistair stewart, wh(decision to step back about broadcaster alistair stewart, wh(decision to step back fromt his decision to step back from gb news earlier this year. you won't want that. don't won't want to miss that. don't go i'll be back in go anywhere. i'll be back in just jiffy. the temperature's just a jiffy. the temperature's rising . rising. >> boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news.

weather on. gb news. >> good morning . my name weather on. gb news. >> good morning. my name is rachel ayers and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast brought to you by the met office . so it was another hot day yesterday . and will we see some yesterday. and will we see some more of that today ? well, more of that today? well, there's already showers going on across the southwest and those are moving north eastwards throughout today into wales. the midlands and northern england and later northern ireland and southern scotland . these could southern scotland. these could band together across some of the northern regions. there and that could bring some heavy downpours or thunderstorms, hail and some strong, gusty winds. it will still be a very warm day in the southeast, though, with highs once again getting into the low 30s. as we go into this evening, those showers will continue for a time. so do expect further heavy showers and thunderstorms. but gradually as we go towards monday , they will start to clear monday, they will start to clear away into the north sea, leaving clear spells for much of eastern england, though low cloud mist and fog developing further north and fog developing further north and west. and it will still be a

generally night, though generally warm night, though starting cool down from the starting to cool down from the northwest east. so to start the new working week, any low cloud mist and fog will lift and break to allow for some sunshine through the morning . best of through the morning. best of that will be across the southeast before showers develop and bands of rain erratically make their way south eastwards from scotland throughout the day. but still remaining warm in the southeast . so not as warm as the southeast. so not as warm as recent days with highs into the mid 20s . mid 20s. >> the temperatures rising , boxt >> the temperatures rising, boxt solar power and sponsors of weather on

away . away. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. now, don't go anywhere, because in just a minute, i'll be quizzing tony blair's former right hand man, john mcternan. what does he think about his party are think about how his party are doing starmers doing after keir starmers ruthless reshuffle this week? stay tuned for that please. after with tatiana after the news with tatiana sanchez. >> camila, thank you very much and good morning. this is the latest from the gb news room. more than 2000 people have died in what's described as the deadliest earthquake in morocco

since 1967. never slept in the open for the second night after the 6.8 magnitude quake struck remote areas of the atlas mountains yesterday . many fear mountains yesterday. many fear their homes are no longer safe to return to with the impact being felt right across the country . more than 2000 people country. more than 2000 people have also been injured . half are have also been injured. half are in a critical condition . the in a critical condition. the prime minister says he's confronted chinese premier li keqiang at the g20 summit in new delhi over beijing's alleged spying by two men in westminster . the sunday times reported. a man in his 30s and a man in his 20s were arrested in march under the official secrets act. one of the official secrets act. one of the men was a researcher with links to several tory mps, including foreign affairs committee chairwoman alicia kearns and security minister tom tugendhat. both mps denied any contact with the researcher. the prime minister says if this is true, it's totally unacceptable right approach is to engage with people, but to raise the

concerns that we have. >> that's what our allies do and our strategy is completely augned our strategy is completely aligned with our closest allies, whether that's america , china, whether that's america, china, canada, australia, japan , you canada, australia, japan, you know, all these countries engage with china, raise areas of disagreement, as i did today on a different a range of different topics, but in particular to register my very strong concern about any interference with parliamentary democracy, which is unacceptable . all is obviously unacceptable. all the justice secretary says around 40 inmates have been moved out of wandsworth prison amid an investigation into daniel khalife escape . daniel khalife escape. >> the former soldier was on the run for four days after strapping himself to the bottom of a food delivery van. he was tackled from a bicycle on a canal towpath in northolt by an officer. yesterday, alex chalk says the prison is overcrowded but promises the government is doing all it can to improve this i >> -- >> as out of an abundance of caution, we've taken 42 to move elsewhere. just as we get to the bottom of what happened. now, thatis bottom of what happened. now, that is a sensible interim

precaution every step. and i just also want to make the point about about wandsworth, you know, there been issues know, there have been issues with crowding, which i accept, which goes back for not just five years or 25, 30 years, but the difference is we doing the difference is we are doing something about it. so very, very significant investment something about it. so very, very sintoicant investment something about it. so very, very sinto prisons.estment something about it. so very, very sinto prisons. threent something about it. so very, very sinto prisons. three well, going into prisons. three well, two already built, one currently under construction . and these under construction. and these are big, big jails. >> justice secretary alex chalk speaking there . this is gb news speaking there. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's back to . camilla >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. i'm going to be speaking to tony blair's former right hand man. his former political secretary, john mcternan, just a moment. i'm mcternan, in just a moment. i'm also to going be joined by lord theodore he theodore agnew. last year, he resigned as a treasury minister in house of lords over the in the house of lords over the government's lack action on government's lack of action on covid is the government

covid fraud. is the government still here? in an still failing here? and in an exclusive interview, i'll be speaking to the legendary broadcaster alastair stewart, who will reveal about his who will reveal all about his decision to step back from gb news earlier this year. you won't to miss it, trust me. won't want to miss it, trust me. now, mcternan political now, john mcternan and political secretary joins me secretary to tony blair joins me now. speak to you this now. lovely to speak to you this morning, i want to morning, john. now i want to start perhaps with keir starmer's reshuffle and perhaps what you made of it. i mean, he's installed a number of blairites. he's sidelined his leadership rival, lisa nandy. is this him pandering to the right, do you think, john, in a bid to win the next general election? >> well, look, he's given a massive job to his deputy leader, angela rayner . she's now leader, angela rayner. she's now in charge of building, building, planning and local government, regional inequality. and on top of that, she's going to have to deal with devolution and the plans for a labour government devolving power to councils and more power to scotland and wales . gigantic responsibility . so a gigantic responsibility for somebody who is as from the

soft left. he also kept ed miliband in place. so i think the idea is to shift to the right is to misunderstand it. it's a shift to promote those who are talented and those who performed well and people who've shone in their posts, whether in the cabinet or in in ministerial roles, have been moved up orang orang. and you see that with liz kendall's promotion, see it kendall's promotion, you see it with carles promotion to with peter carles promotion to science , and you see it science minister, and you see it the sense of a shadow cabinet ready to go. we are an alternative government, which i think is the answer to all the troubles the government is having is well, troubles the government is having is well , there is an having is well, there is an alternative to people who can't seem to sort anything out. and it's this team and i think he's got his team for the next election. >> now, i was just surprised by lisa nandy because i think she's quite accomplished quite an accomplished media performer. of performer. she's got clarity of thought ideology and she's performer. she's got clarity of thouga: ideology and she's performer. she's got clarity of thouga strongieology and she's performer. she's got clarity of thouga strong player and she's performer. she's got clarity of thouga strong player on d she's performer. she's got clarity of thouga strong player on thate's quite a strong player on that shadow front bench, but equally sheisnt shadow front bench, but equally she isn't the angela rayner promotion , just a case of keep promotion, just a case of keep your friends close and your enemies well no, because enemies closer. well no, because the deputy leader is opposed to

electing its own right, so they're not rivals . they're not rivals. >> they have separate mandates and what you have to do, you know, margaret thatcher understood, she said about willie whitelaw, her deputy prime minister every prime minister needs a willie . i mean, minister needs a willie. i mean, everybody needs a deputy who's a contrast to them. and that's the that's the thing. i think that keir's understood . and angela keir's understood. and angela needs a front and centre role shadowing the cabinet office was not a big enough position for her. not a big enough position for hen he not a big enough position for her. he didn't bring her talents to front and the way she used to frighten boris johnson when she stood in for keir at pmqs. i think he's going to frighten michael gove. he won't quite know what to do with it. i don't think any tory minister quite knows to handle angela knows how to handle angela rayner know, lisa nandy is a rayner you know, lisa nandy is a great politician at the wrong point view, very strong view point of view, very strong view of world, very good of the world, very good communicator i think can communicator and i think she can restore the reputation the uk restore the reputation of the uk in international affairs during the difficult part of the portfolio. it's really critical

for an incoming government. >> you talked about pmqs there. i was in the house of commons for pmqs on wednesday, and i sort of thought this was the perfect opportunity for keir starmer to basically score in an open goal. the concrete crisis escaping prisoners. open goal. the concrete crisis escaping prisoners . you know, escaping prisoners. you know, everything else that you might mention. and really mention. and he didn't really land a blow on rishi sunak are you concerned about starmer's performance in the house of commons compared to, say, tony blair's ? blair's? >> look, i think the thing was that keir gave rishi the opportunity, which he followed through on rishi. the opportunity land blow after blow after blow on himself, because basically the prime minister's position on everything is everything's going well and nothing that's bad is my fault and this sense that the government don't want to take responsibility about anything, you know, gillian keegan's may be the person who's the absolute emblem of it with her off mic , emblem of it with her off mic, but well, on mic off camera remarks about why doesn't she

get any credit for what she's doing. i think that sums up the government at the moment and rishi is strange , confident rishi is strange, confident about everything's going fine, is completely at odds where the country is. and i think voters who haven't switched off from listening to the government at all are going, what are voters? >> john? are voters, john, necessarily lining the streets saying, hooray, starmer for pm? i note that you wrote recently in the ft and i quote the uk labour party has a commanding lead over the conservatives of the past 20 months, yet there is consensus between its leadership, its membership and political commentators that the party and its leader , keir party and its leader, keir starmer, have not yet sealed the deal with voters . starmer's deal with voters. starmer's approval rating is currently on —14. admittedly sunak's is worse on —34, but he's not exactly sort of engendering the electorate to come out and vote in the way that people did for blair in the run up to the 1997 election. well

>> well, tony was a politician for a different era when most things were going right and people were just kind of had a sense that we could you know, with the economy booming, we didn't have to have such bad pubuc didn't have to have such bad public services. we didn't have such such waiting lists in the nhs. now, i think there's a much more difficult feeling around people a cost of living people in a cost of living crisis. see not just one crisis. they see not just one problem in hospitals with the waiting list, they see another problem the delayed of problem the delayed discharge of social care and social care of older patients. they see in ability to get to see a gp. everything seems to be breaking down in that situation. it's really hard to engender the same kind of sense of hope and optimism for the future . now, optimism for the future. now, i think the reason keir reshuffled the team was to get a lot of communication. who could give more sense ? and also more of that sense? and i'd also think what he's going to think that what he's going to say party conference is going say at party conference is going to set out that sense of why have we got to here? why do we feel like will we go feel like this will work? we go as country . feel like this will work? we go as country. i think that's the as a country. i think that's the necessary bit to seal the

deal >>i deal >> i was going to ask you, john, what should he say at conference? because there is this interesting briefing to the sunday where he's sunday times today where he's talking cracking down talking about cracking down on our borders being our open borders and being tougher that. sort tougher on that. and i sort of interpreted little bit interpreted that as a little bit of appeal to this audience, of an appeal to this audience, to news viewers and to the gb news news viewers and indeed listeners who are kind of crying out for a labour policy on he on stopping the boats should he shift the right to re shift more to the right to re captur the red wall that they lost in 2019. so the thing is, there's not much space for labour to occupy anymore. >> labour is on 4,445% in the polls. labour is on a 20 to 25 point lead. it's really hard to imagine how you could get those if votes are still with the tories. now what would take them to come off them ? i think the to come off them? i think the issue on the borders is an appeal to all voters, which is the core issue about this is suppose suella braverman is the emblem of this for me. she's cruel, but she's incompetent , so cruel, but she's incompetent, so she wants to really be punitive

towards refugees. but then she she wants to give them legionnaire's disease as well. there's something very about the cruelty and incompr pittance and what glasgow is defending our borders, securing our borders, having safe routes for asylum seekers . these are fundamental seekers. these are fundamental things for britain and something really un—british about the current crisis over the small boats. but it needs a new deal with france, a new deal with the european union. it needs a new team in charge , a new team in charge, a new government. i think by saying we'd have a policy on that, we've actually had five point policy for the summer. he policy for over the summer. he wants to come again to it wants to come back again to it to explain it's not just gb news voters who are very important for labour and we do want gb news voters labour news voters to vote. labour is for voters who just go, what for all voters who just go, what is government about? they is this government about? they seem to have lost the focus, lost they really care lost and they don't really care about getting the job done. well yeah. >> how important is scotland's performance going to be? is labour's performance? sorry going to be in scotland? obviously we've got this

by—election coming up in rutherglen and hamilton west following the resignation of snp mp ferrier over the mp margaret ferrier over the covid rule break. and clearly, if labour reclaims some of their territory in scotland , they're territory in scotland, they're going to be a massive threat to the snp. well i think the problem facing the snp is in a way the same problem facing the tory government . tory government. >> nicola sturgeon was very like bofis >> nicola sturgeon was very like boris johnson, that she used government to campaign campaign politically for independence for her independence was the answer to everything, whether it was poor policing or nhs waiting or all the or any problem that people raise. now she's gone. it feels as though a veil has been lifted. people are going to know what the government in scotland are meant to deliver. core pubuc are meant to deliver. core public services, good schooling , good education, good transport, good trains, regular trains, good bus services, good policing and all of these things. and people are going well. actually, i'm not getting

that. and every time you ask, you raise question about it. you raise a question about it. the snp go, well, if we were independent, we'd be better. the best that independence independent, we'd be better. the best workhat independence independent, we'd be better. the best workhat indepebeing e would work would be being competent within the devolution settlement. so labour has got a great opportunity. i've been talking to people who've been out on the doors in rutherglen. my out on the doors in rutherglen. my is one of them, former my sister is one of them, former labour councillor she's been labour councillor and she's been saying open saying people are open to laboun saying people are open to labour, to labour . so labour, listening to labour. so scotland's bit like the red scotland's a bit like the red wall. people do need , labour wall. people do need, labour needs to deal, but i think labour will win rutherglen and that we're back in that will show we're back in contention we can pick up contention and if we can pick up seats there then we're then we're a national party again. that's keir. that's important for keir. >> thank very >> john mcternan, thank you very much joining me this much indeed for joining me this morning. stay tuned , folks, morning. now stay tuned, folks, because later on i'm going be because later on i'm going to be speaking alastairstewart, speaking to alastair stewart, who'll why he made who'll be revealing why he made the earlier this the decision earlier this year to call time on regular broadcasting and in just a minute, from lord minute, i'll hear from lord theodore the former theodore agnew, the former anti—fraud minister who resigned in house commons last in the house of commons last year a lack action on year due to a lack of action on covid fraud. but first, it's going to be hot again. here's

the weather . the weather. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers. proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello, my name is rachel ayers and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast brought to you by the met office. so some of you have woken up to heavy showers and thunderstorms and these will continue throughout much of today. and these brought from these are being brought up from these are being brought up from the so through the the continent. so through the engush the continent. so through the english channel making their english channel and making their way northeastwards with a cold front, some rain front, just bringing some rain cloud outbreaks of drizzle cloud and outbreaks of drizzle to far northwest scotland to the far northwest of scotland . and heavy showers and . and so heavy showers and thunderstorms really name of thunderstorms really the name of the throughout the rest of the game throughout the rest of today. could bring today. these could bring some pretty torrential and pretty torrential downpours and frequent hail and also frequent lightning hail and also some strong, gusty winds at times. but we are still looking at temperatures getting into the low 30s across the southeast once again today as we head into this evening. those thunderstor and showers will continue to make their way north eastwards, lingering for a time into the

early hours of monday across southern parts of scotland, but drying up elsewhere with the best of any clear spells in the east, a bit of low cloud mist and fog, though in places especially for western coasts. and it's looking like another warm and humid night. so to start the new working week, some brightness, especially in the east at first, but cloud and outbreaks of rain making their way south eastwards throughout the day with some heavy showers and potentially some further thunderstorms developing just ahead of this. but still feeling pretty pleasant in any of that sunshine , though. temperatures sunshine, though. temperatures not climbing quite as high as we've throughout the we've seen throughout the weekend . and that warm feeling weekend. and that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers. >> proud sponsors of weather on

gb news. radio. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. lovely to have your company this sunday morning . i'm delighted to be joined in the now by lord agnew, the studio now by lord agnew, who anti—fraud minister who was the anti—fraud minister in the cabinet office from 2020 to 2022. prior to that he was schools minister. for now, lord agnew perhaps be best known agnew will perhaps be best known to many our viewers your to many of our viewers for your dramatic your dramatic resignation from your role anti fraud minister role as an anti fraud minister in the house lords. last in the house of lords. last january, you that the january, you said that the government had been too lax in awarding covid bounce loans awarding covid bounce back loans and doing enough to and were not doing enough to investigate let's just retrospectively. let's just

remind ourselves of that moment i >> -- >> total fraud loss across government is estimated at 29 billion a year. of course , not billion a year. of course, not all can be stopped, but a combination of arrogance, indolence and ignorance freezes the government machine and action taken today will give this government a sporting chance of cutting income tax before a likely may 20th, 24 election. if my removal helps that to happen, it will have been worth it. so it leaves me only to thank the noble lord, lord tunnicliffe, for his courteous but attentive role as my shadow minister of my portfolio, and to thank noble friends, many of whom i know will carry on their scrutiny of this important area. thank you and goodbye . and goodbye. >> it's the closing of the book. right? i'm off. you were clearly incensed by what you saw as treasury inaction over covid loan fraud . what went wrong ? loan fraud. what went wrong? >> well, it was it was panic initially. they were very worried that the productive economy would be destroyed by

the forced closure of millions of businesses with covid, which was a perfectly reasonable reaction . but they then just reaction. but they then just closed their ears to sensible suggestions that could have dramatically reduced the amount of fraud that emanated from the loan schemes that they put in place . place. >> why do you think they did that? was it a case of, oh, well, you know, we've got bigger fish to fry, we're just going to have to just close our eyes to what's going on because it's too big to solve. >> well, i honestly don't know because i literally had shouting matches i was matches with them. i mean, i was so frustrated at the time when they loan structure in they put the loan structure in place i warned them that place and i warned them that they were creating an absolute nightmare for the future and that the excuse was a few credit checks would unreasonably delay getting money these getting the money out to these businesses, total businesses, which is total rubbish . i mean, it would have rubbish. i mean, it would have delayed it by a few hours, literally. these now , there were literally. these now, there were there something like 15,000 there were something like 15,000 duplicate loans. so businesses were applying on multiple occasions . as for the loan when

occasions. as for the loan when they only entitled to one loan, that just malady ministration by the treasury, is it just total ineptitude rude? yes. well, that's i in my that's what i said in my resignation speech. >> mean, obviously >> i mean, it's not obviously something that's done on something that's been done on purpose, just of purpose, but it's just a lack of checking, a lack of oversight and of auditing. how much and a lack of auditing. how much do we think tax payers lost dunng do we think tax payers lost during period ? during this period? >> it's very difficult to >> well, it's very difficult to quantify it because do you call a duplicate loan a fraud ? so a duplicate loan a fraud? so i don't know how they are , how don't know how they are, how they're calculating this, but how many of those who received more than one loan have paid them back? >> so do we have an answer to that question? >> well, to my knowledge. >> well, not to my knowledge. >> well, not to my knowledge. >> practically none be my guess. >> i suspect very few. so. so you've got those and then you've got those who are actually crooked. so there were 1500 loans to companies loans that went out to companies that weren't even trading when covid again, of covid hit because again, of naivety . so, so there were naivety. so, so there were a whole range of these issues. and then i did fight rearguard then i did fight a rearguard action try to recover this by action to try to recover this by getting additional resources. i only wrote one letter to the

then chancellor for as my boss in the treasury asking for more resource to go after this. >> you wrote a really lengthy letter explaining the problems. what was happening, what was going wrong. correct and you laid it all out very early on. what was the response ? what was the response? >> it's not interested really , >> it's not interested really, other than, well, departments need to find the money from their own resources. >> is and why do you think he took that approach? because he was overly concerned with furlough and his own performance dunng furlough and his own performance during the pandemic. eat out to help out. well, i think he was overwhelmed by the crisis . overwhelmed by the crisis. >> and i mean, i can't blame the government for that because it was unprecedented in peacetime. but but it was frustrating that there weren't prepared to listen to someone with a business background who who actually understood how this stuff worked i >> -- >> did you ever have any face to face discussions with him or is it all by letter? well, and we met i mean, we met as a ministerial team on a probably a fortnightly basis. >> but but i couldn't get the

message through. but what are you saying? >> that was fingers ears? >> that it was fingers in ears? we to hear this? we don't want to hear this? >> much, yeah. >> pretty much, yeah. >> pretty much, yeah. >> it's depressing that i mean, as a term, long serving as a long term, long serving tory, must have been quite tory, you must have been quite upset. >> well, and the problem is it's the amount money that's lost, the amount of money that's lost, which this in a which will come to this in a moment we talk about moment when we talk about economic growth and how we can create that if we're losing this money, which could be so much better used. and i mean, the national audit office put the figure at 30 billion a year in fraud loss in government before covid. so i mean, it's just an astonishing about now you're not going to get all of that before covid. yes. yes. so the problem has been endemic for a long time. so that's why the thing needs a real focus. >> and you know what will incense our viewers and listeners is that if there's some problem, some slight anomaly with your return, anomaly with your tax return, hmrc will be down your throat before you can say, oh my goodness, where are my bank files is and yet at the same time a blind eye has been turned

to based hinckley widespread fraud worth millions and billions . billions. >> it was also promise of a fraud bill in this parliament. >> what happened to that? >> what happened to that? >> well, it's disappeared . >> well, it's disappeared. >> well, it's disappeared. >> so. okay, so , look, let's >> so. okay, so, look, let's talk about growth. and i know you want to talk about sort of what more we could be doing for productivity, particularly you said at time, look, i'm said at the time, look, i'm resigning if you did resigning because if you did claw back some of this money, we could have income tax cuts. i take it still think we take it you still think we should income tax cuts? should have income tax cuts? >> we have be very >> well, we have to be very careful moment because we careful at the moment because we are perilous financial are in a very perilous financial position. we have a position. so we have a structural deficit each year where spending 85 billion where we are spending 85 billion more we are generating in more than we are generating in revenue from taxes. so of course, i would like to see tax cuts, but we cannot this is why the truss government fails so quickly, she announced unfunded tax cuts and the gilt markets, the internal markets who lend us the internal markets who lend us the money to keep going. they didn't like it and that's why we

have a point about trying to fight treasury orthodoxy changing the status quo, trying to stimulate more growth than this sort of flatlining figure that we've grown used to, that many describe as managed decline. now 100. she was on the right track and getting rid of the then head of the treasury . the then head of the treasury. tom scholar was a good move. >> was it because people say that part of the reason the that was part of the reason the markets were spooked and that kwasi kwarteng arrogance kwasi kwarteng showed arrogance in that? in doing that? >> well, was a main >> well, he he was a main blocker to i mean, i had to deal with him when i was a scholar. was. yes. >> what do you mean? >> what do you mean? >> well, he was simply managed the status quo managed decline and bring all this control of the to the centre. and the finances to the centre. and in a short term way. and we'll discuss a little bit about that on the school buildings later. >> so just tell me about the attitude, obviously >> so just tell me about the attitudihad obviously >> so just tell me about the attitudihad this obviously >> so just tell me about the attitudihad this kind/iously >> so just tell me about the attitudihad this kind/i0lfront you've had this kind of front row seat inside the treasury and we've much criticism we've heard so much criticism over from people who over the years from people who are on right people who are more on the right people who are more on the right people who are a brexit persuasion are more of a brexit persuasion , saying that there's groupthink. what's wrong groupthink. why what's wrong with the treasury as a whole ?

with the treasury as a whole? well, their left wing, they're economically completely opposed to kind of thatcherite economics . what's the deal? the first thing is the average age is 29, right? >> so you have very bright people with very, very little lived experience. so they haven't been out in the front line of business creating wealth. they've never been there. they've been to a smart university. and then they go into the treasury and the turnover of staff there is colossal. it's 25% or something like that. so you're losing so you don't get the traction of people who become experts in the way in their portfolios because they're moving so quickly . on they're moving so quickly. on top of that, they try to micromanage the whole of government. so tiny sums of money will end up with them being scrutinised , whereas they being scrutinised, whereas they lose sight of the big picture. >> so they block policies all the time and they looking for the time and they looking for the bottom line. we're fast running out of time because it's been so fascinating speaking to you , let's just talk about

you, let's just talk about briefly. you were schools minister. did you know that this concrete was a problem waiting to in the day? it's to happen back in the day? it's been agenda for years . been on the agenda for years. should the government have done more about it? pre—emptive because down because obviously closing down school classrooms two days before term seemed before the start of term seemed a little bit after the event ? a little bit after the event? >> well, could have done it >> well, they could have done it at the beginning the at the beginning of the holidays, couldn't they? well, couldn't don't >> but why don't they? >> but why don't they? >> you'll ask them that. >> you'll have to ask them that. i've been of for i've been out of the for department a long time, but i again, i had probably only ten meetings treasury. meetings with the treasury. i was the capital schools was also the capital schools minister. so i had the envelope of capital when i was of schools capital when i was there trying to get there and i was trying to get them to give me a long term envelope. so i said, give me a ten year envelope of money. it doesn't be any more, but doesn't have to be any more, but then i can go out to the building industry and say, here is a ten year program. so that you tool up dealing with you can tool up for dealing with these refurbishments and. well, they wouldn't. they wouldn't. they within they said it has to sit within the review . but i said the spending review. but i said to them, well, we not going to them, well, are we not going to them, well, are we not going to have any schools the end to have any schools at the end of spending review? said,

of the spending review? i said, what's happen after the what's going to happen after the year three year spending year or the three year spending review? course , review? and they, of course, they an answer to they don't have an answer to that. you seem to be saying that. so you seem to be saying that. so you seem to be saying that a lot of these roadblocks when comes the government when it comes to the government trying enact own policies trying to enact its own policies or you or indeed ministers like you coming ideas to solve coming up with ideas to solve problems constantly being problems are constantly being blocked by the treasury continually, why continually, which is why one thing i for when truss thing i pushed for when truss was in power was you was briefly in power was you need to take a responsibility for economic growth from the treasury have a small team treasury and have a small team directly responsible, answerable to prime minister who to the prime minister who deliver on that because that's the most important agenda. and i know we're running of time, know we're running out of time, but camilla just important to give couple of numbers. so give you a couple of numbers. so the share of if you compare us to america over the last 20 years, our percentage of per capha years, our percentage of per capita income has fallen steadily. so we now, as a country rank just above alabama for so and we have fallen progressively over the last 20 or 30 years. and if we could

increase per capita gdp by 3% within 15 years, that would be another £650 billion a year in revenue. forget inflation. but just to take simple numbers. so there would give there you'd get your tax cut. so that would allow you to cut taxes by 35. yeah and continue to properly fund public services. but then the trouble to conclude, lord agnew is the bring in a chancellor that wants to challenge the status quo or indeed a prime minister >> and they last what a matter of days. >> and they last what a matter of (yes, but she could have >> yes, but she could have handled it a lot better. but you're right, we need but we need. >> hunt similarly taken hostage, i suspect so. lord agnew, thank you very much indeed for your expertise this morning. thank you. speak you. very interesting to speak to there's more to you. well, there's lots more to you. well, there's lots more to come on today's show. and we're going go back to olivia we're going to go back to olivia now, who is in tooting with the people's panel find what people's panel to find out what they've made the interviews they've made of the interviews that conducted that i've conducted this morning. hello . morning. olivia hello. >> yes, i am still in tooting

market, where we're all slightly distracted because a large box of kittens has just turned up. so that's pretty exciting. but before that we were watching your eye. your interviews with a hawk eye. and going to start with and i'm going to start with kerstin here now, kerstin, kerstin over here now, kerstin, you earlier about you were talking earlier about mismanagement at the top of the prison sector, i.e. quite a lot of changes within the government. do you think alex shaw could address that point in his interview with camilla? >> my take away from that interview is that one of the core issues within the ministry, which to deliverjustice to which is to deliver justice to people in the uk, has just not been resolved. the number of court cases pending trial is still remain the same. and so for me, there's an issue around , you know, the fact that he's had five jobs in the last three years and i don't know how many justice secretaries we've had in such a short period of time. and there has to be there just has to be accountability at the top when the when it's not when they're not delivering british not delivering for the british people. that's the people. so i think that's the greatest disappoint moment. and, you know, let's there are you know, let's hope there are less reshuffles the future less reshuffles in the future and ministers able

and actually ministers are able to stay in role long enough to actually carry through their policies. it's great to hear policies. so it's great to hear from the minister and to hear everything he's putting in everything that he's putting in place , you know, but i'd like place or, you know, but i'd like to see him. i'd like him to see it actually for longer it through actually for longer than months, hopefully. but than 12 months, hopefully. but there's general election there's a general election coming maybe not. who coming up, so maybe not. who knows? that's really, knows? i think that's a really, really kirsten. >> just did a little touch up >> i just did a little touch up now, quick look. and there now, had a quick look. and there have been eight changes of justice. secretary the last justice. secretary in the last eight which , as you eight years, which, as you say, must things pretty must make things pretty difficult for the civil servants trying to enact government difficult for the civil servants trying and nact government difficult for the civil servants trying and make overnment difficult for the civil servants trying and make prisonient difficult for the civil servants trying and make prison reform policy and make prison reform very difficult indeed. now, olly , what about you? when we talk last sympathetic last year, a pretty sympathetic to government, pointed to the government, you pointed out is just prison out that this is just one prison escape. only been escape. there have only been four years . alex chalk four in recent years. alex chalk listed there. quite a lot of changes that he's going to make to wandsworth prison. already 40 inmates been moved out . do inmates have been moved out. do you still that the you think still that the government is doing enough to address problems like this and more generally problems in the prison ? prison sector? >> i think you've just sort of

said i was going to say he is doing he is actioning things. he is putting things in place. he's doing internal reviews. he's asking questions. he's making sure are answering sure that people are answering to what they've done and what has wrong and trying, you has gone wrong and trying, you know, moving prisoners that probably to be you probably need to be moved. you know, actually a know, he is actually doing a good believe. and, you good job. i believe. and, you know, think necessarily, yes, know, i think necessarily, yes, itake know, i think necessarily, yes, i take continuity points in i take the continuity points in terms you're there longer, terms of if you're there longer, you brief more, you learn the brief more, etcetera, however, you etcetera, etcetera. however, you know, a good person know, if you have a good person in the job, which i believe alex chalk is, i think you can actually get with things. actually get on with things. i think thing me would be think the thing for me would be when comes terrorism and when it comes to terrorism and other crimes like other really big crimes like that, we do to speed up that, what can we do to speed up the being putting them the sentence being putting them through courts, making through the courts, making bringing justice, bringing them to justice, bringing, you know, i think his case november. bringing, you know, i think his case november . let's case was set for november. let's do to bring them before the do more to bring them before the judge and get them into prison , judge and get them into prison, into a, know, a more secure into a, you know, a more secure prison faster. >> thank you very much. i think thatis >> thank you very much. i think that is a very big problem. that long, waiting list for long, long waiting list for trials actually reach the trials to actually reach the courts. now, tony, i wanted to

ask you about that interview with lord agnew, who resigned from his position as a government minister he government minister because he was about covid was so concerned about covid fraud. what did you make of that? >> i think that is a very serious issue, sitting in the country. we've clearly seen some clear issues with regard to procurement, clear issues with regard to procurement , nepotism, cronyism procurement, nepotism, cronyism . um, and i think if the government is serious about running a nation and moving a nafion running a nation and moving a nation forward in the 21st century, one of the things it needs to do is not just to be concentrating on the big scale projects which catch media attention. there's the small and medium sized business sector, which suffered greatly. which has suffered greatly. and if money's being lost to fraud, it means then effectively money cannot be employed effectively in country to make things in the country to make things better and think that might better. and i think that might better. and i think that might be the overriding factors be one of the overriding factors with regard issues with regard to the issues surrounding what has happened at wandsworth in general. >> that's really, really interesting. yeah big, big problems procurement problems in the procurement sector. as you say, i mean sector. and as you say, i mean fraud. a deep, deep issue which doesn't seem to be being systematically addressed . that

systematically addressed. that is it from our brilliant people's panel in tooting this morning . so thank you all. morning. so thank you all. really, really to great have you on. i'm sure i'll see you next week, camilla. but for now, back to you in studio. to you in the studio. >> thanks much for that, >> thanks so much for that, olivia. brilliant people's panel there opinions, as there with great opinions, as even you there with great opinions, as ever. you want ever. don't forget, if you want to go to gbnews.com to apply, go to gbnews.com forward now i do forward slash panel. now i do not even think of moving a muscle because after a glittering career in tv, which has spanned six decades, alastair stewart has decided to call time on regular broadcasting. earlier in the year. broadcasting. earlier in the year . but why broadcasting. earlier in the year. but why has one of the most recognised faces in the news made this decision news business made this decision 7 news business made this decision ? be revealing all in just ? he'll be revealing all in just a minute

company right through until 7:00 this evening. gb news is the people's . channel people's. channel >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. well, it's the moment i've been waiting for. i'm sure you have, too. we've got alastair stewart back in the studio. legendary presenter studio. legendary news presenter at gb news, of course, at itn and gb news, of course, alastair, lovely to you this alastair, lovely to see you this morning. great be back. i'm morning. great to be back. i'm sure it is. >> it is absolutely terrific to be and i was sitting out be back. and i was sitting out there having coffee with with there having a coffee with with friends chatting to steve friends and chatting to steve and like and and people like that and watching the programme. great programme. thank you so far. i hope will to maintain hope i will be able to maintain the standard you are the standard. >> you the benchmark here >> you are the benchmark here that all aspire to. look, you that we all aspire to. look, you stood down your role at gb stood down from your role at gb news in march. did release news in march. you did release a statement at the you want statement at the time. you want to that a bit more clarity to give that a bit more clarity . would you like? . what would you like? >> i wanted to give it >> i did and i wanted to give it a bit more clarity. a here at gb news. but with you because

news. but be with you because you have interviewed me before now in telegraph days and now in the telegraph days and i think you are one of the absolutely top best. thank you interview viewers. seriously and any of the politicians who've sat down, including our mutual friend charles walker , will will friend charles walker, will will vouch for that . and the reason i vouch for that. and the reason i wanted it to be here at gb news rather than anywhere else was because gb news have looked after me phenomenally well. the headune after me phenomenally well. the headline story and it is relatively dramatic , i suppose. relatively dramatic, i suppose. is that about about six, nine months ago. so i began to feel one of my favourite words a bit discomposed tabulated. i wasn't becoming forgetful , but discomposed tabulated. i wasn't becoming forgetful, but things like doing up your shoelace properly. that's how i wear these lovely moccasins now, making sure your tie was straight. remembering that the call time for your program is 4:00 and not 5:00. not turning up early or late and stuff like

that. up early or late and stuff like that . and i then decided at my that. and i then decided at my ripe old age of late 50s, early 60s that i might have something wrong up here. so i went to see my gp, who's brilliant, and i said, look, i'm really worried that i might have dementia , that i might have dementia, early onset dementia and the gp to his credit, said, i don't know, i've no idea . sometimes know, i've no idea. sometimes people of your age, particularly if they've had a really fascinating active life , try to fascinating active life, try to find excuses because they can't quite cope with old age. but the only way you can find out is have a scan. and i had a scan and then it was like a scene from casualty or emergency ward ten because the results came back and i had indeed had a series of minor strokes that are called infarct strokes, not the big one where your face falls down and your arm goes doolally. but it's like pepper shots and that the cumulus effect of that was that i had a diagnosis of early onset vascular dementia

and so gb news didn't then say, oh god, well, that's hopeless. we can't you can't have you on screen or anything like that. quite the opposite. gb news is across the spectrum and my team and i just bumped into a couple of them outside, which was lovely. they were amongst those who saying, sure who were saying, are you sure you're we're bit worried you're okay? we're a bit worried about just drew together as about you just drew together as one and backed me, so i remain one and backed me, so i remain on the books. yes, i have a what's called a contributor contract. so i can come and do stuff like this. had a lovely interview with cameron walker about the death of the late queen and the accession of king charles. and i'm hoping other things will crop up time. things will crop up over time. but they were just so totally loyal to me when the gp kind of broke that bombshell news. >> was your >> alastair, what was your reaction? were you surprised? were horrified ? were you horrified? >> it all of the above , but also >> it all of the above, but also relieved because i knew that there was something amiss. but i didn't know what it was . and to didn't know what it was. and to be crystal clear , it's not like

be crystal clear, it's not like sitting opposite a man or a woman in a blue or a white coat with a stethoscope around the neck saying, i'm sorry, i've got some bad news for you. you've got cancer you've probably got cancer and you've probably only months to live only got six months to live quite the opposite with dementia, is a dementia, alzheimer's is a totally different argument. but with with dementia, you with with vascular dementia, you can't it, but you can can't cure it, but you can immediate weight it. we were chatting about what a lovely word that was early on, before before we started the conversation. so, for example, i've given up smoking. and i've given up smoking. yeah. and the nhs have been brilliant on that as well. the nhs have actually been brilliant throughout a throughout it and there's a little bit of central government money to the nhs money that went to the nhs saying, look, let's try and help people stop smoking want to people stop smoking who want to genuinely , because i'm obviously genuinely, because i'm obviously costing the nhs money. if i got cancen costing the nhs money. if i got cancer, god forbid i'd cost them even more. so i've stopped smoking. that helps. i take the dogs for a purposeful , slightly dogs for a purposeful, slightly longer walk than i used to and my diet is okay. i don't drink

heavily and haven't done for quite some time, but there are bits and pieces that you can do to stop it getting worse. >> word searches, trying to keep the brain active, people watching this interview and listening to it on the radio will think , you sound like the will think, you sound like the alastair stewart of old, 45 years in the business, longest serving broadcaster in this country . you're totally lucid . country. you're totally lucid. people's impression of dementia is you get a diagnosis like that andifs is you get a diagnosis like that and it's game over. but you haven't had that. >> now quite the opposite. and so kind of you to say that and i do hope that's how people feel because my two consultants, i have a i have a cardio consultant to try and figure out why blood pressure is so why the blood pressure is so high because that's what causes these little strokes in most cases then i have cases is and then i have a stroke consultant who's working with how to ameliorate the with me on how to ameliorate the condition. them said to condition. both of them said to my who comes to all of my my wife, who comes to all of my appointments, you know, it's really because we know really weird because we know exactly you are we've exactly who you are and we've kind grown up with you and it kind of grown up with you and it would be impossible to diagnose you dementia from sitting

you with dementia from sitting down and having a conversation with you. quite the opposite. you'd think, there's nothing wrong with this bloke. he's just, know, he's spinning just, you know, he's spinning a yarn. but it will. it will progressively get worse , but it progressively get worse, but it won't ever get to that point of you becoming completely doolally . and that's, that was the other reason i wanted apart from to say thank to gb news quite say thank you to gb news quite genuinely was publicly say genuinely was to publicly say that is out there. it's that the nhs is out there. it's having a tough i don't having a tough time. i don't support the strikes . i'm very support the strikes. i'm very upset the strikes . but those upset by the strikes. but those who've been working, who've still been working, who've still been working, who've been looking after me. gp nurses occupational therapy . the nurses occupational therapy. the consultants have all been utterly brilliant. although one of the consultant phoned up, the other day of an evening just to say, are you okay? everything all right? and don't forget you're coming to see us on tuesday or whatever. and my wife said, aren't you supposed to be on strike? which fortunately that the that was the reaction at the other end of the phone, as well as in the house. >> a of humour throughout

>> a sense of humour throughout all this, which is great for your wife sally and i know you've four children, you've got four children, but the the family, the impact on the family, alastair, have alastair, i mean, it must have been substantial. been quite substantial. >> huge and the family >> it is huge and the family have been utterly brilliant. my daughter, who's been gb daughter, who's been on gb news and mentioned and my team who i mentioned earlier, who said, are you sure you're no her well. you're okay? no her as well. she's working saudi arabia at she's working in saudi arabia at the facetime the moment, but we do facetime very regularly we chat very very regularly and we chat very regularly. my eldest son, regularly. and my eldest son, alex, i've often talked alex, who i've often talked about the programme about on the programme when i used as well, who is used to do it as well, who is utterly brilliant on sport and particularly football analysis , particularly football analysis, he's sitting outside, they've been brilliant. i think to me you said about the shock and the impact upon you. the thing i have found most difficult to deal with genuinely is the impact it's had on sally, my wife. we've been married for nearly half a century and you know your life partner or your lover, all of those descriptions , ones that are personal and intimate , that person is intimate, that person is reduced. i choose my words very carefully, almost to a carer. yes. so like this morning long,

we'd had long conversations about what i wanted to say to you and you were kind enough and we had a lovely conversation on the phone the other day as well. and alex and clem, but her role this morning was to make sure that i was ready for when the car that the tie was up car came and that the tie was up done properly, that the suit shirt tie matched and what have you. and for a woman who spent nearly as long as i did in this industry as a top technician, brilliant production assistant, i find that tricky because you are your health through no fault of your own, is reducing this person who is the most important single person in your life to the role of a carer. and so if you do think that there's something wrong with you, go and see the gp. listen to what he or she says. but also do remember that the people you work with and the people you live with and share your life with are the most important people in the entire world and they are there . if you're lucky enough, as i was to you, say with was to help you, you say with sally helping you with, say,

your tie and your socks and things, how are the symptoms manifesting themselves? >> we've talked >> because we've talked about you perfectly lucid . you you being perfectly lucid. you know, thinking straight, know, you're thinking straight, but i'm getting the impression that really affected some that it's really affected some of your motor skills perhaps of your motor skills and perhaps tell us whether it's tell us about whether it's affected your memory as well. >> yeah. motor skills is which was a was a description. i wasn't totally familiar with, familiar with, but that was one of the things that clem said. but yes, you're like shoelaces and ties and stuff like that. and being a teacher, obviously she the development of she notices the development of motor and motor skills with children and some as quick as others. some are not as quick as others. and the rest of it, the memory long term and medium term memory is not a problem at all, period. so so i'm as excited as you are about the relative imminence of about the relative imminence of a general election , ian and i've. >> well, you've covered so many. >> well, you've covered so many. >> i've been doing general elections since since the 60s. in fact, it's the dawn of time. yeah, since the dawn of time. since the invention of democracy and fortunate me, my memory of

constituencies and who won and who didn't win. and score draws like the coalition is , is fairly like the coalition is, is fairly good. like the coalition is, is fairly good . my very short term memory good. my very short term memory sometimes is a bit slow and i tend to write a lot more down in little notebook or on the blackboard in the kitchen . blackboard in the kitchen. >> just writing yourself notes. >> just writing yourself notes. >> just writing yourself notes. >> just yeah, just so that i'll remember what am i doing tomorrow. but when it's things that matter, like medical that really matter, like medical appointments, sal, bless her heart , does all of that. so if heart, does all of that. so if the gp phones up or one of the consultants or a letter comes saying, you know, you're due to come and see us for x, y or z, then i just hand over the letter or the phone to sal because obviously that's something that's important and that, that i don't want to get wrong and i can't afford to get wrong. so very, very short term memory is tncky very, very short term memory is tricky mode skills definitely tncky. tricky mode skills definitely tricky . one of the things

tricky. one of the things fortunately , which if you read fortunately, which if you read all the literature on it, it talks about spatial awareness. so things like remember thinking spatial awareness . i was worried spatial awareness. i was worried that when the floor manager brilliant another camilla brought me in, you know , make brought me in, you know, make sure you don't trip over well, if lavrov can trip up on his way to go and meet modi and biden can trip up on the way down, i'm in good company. if that happens, but i haven't had that spatial awareness problem at all. one weird thing is old fashioned clocks . if i glance fashioned clocks. if i glance down at a digital clock, that's not a problem. but if i glance down at this one old fashioned analogue one or the big one in the kitchen at home, it sometimes takes me a while. or if i'm not allowed to set it anymore because i always get it wrong and the digital clocks are brilliant. and that's much wrong and the digital clocks are brilliarso and that's much wrong and the digital clocks are brilliarso that'sat's much wrong and the digital clocks are brilliarso that's a�*s much wrong and the digital clocks are brilliarso that's a perception better. so that's a perception thing that whatever little bit of my brain looks at it and says, right, if the big hands there and little ones there, it's 8:00 or whatever. so that's

obviously had a stroke at some stage. yes. so i'm not as sharp on that infarct strokes, obviously, you had no idea at the time was happening? none the time it was happening? none at all. long conversations with the stroke consultant and he occasionally will say, you know, have you had any neurological episodes or anything like that? and i said, what do you mean? he said, like sudden shocks, headaches or things like that, or things that have happened in your been very your life that have been very disruptive very upsetting or disruptive or very upsetting or anything that. and anything like that. and fortunately , the answer both fortunately, the answer to both of questions no. look of those questions is no. i look back at what happened when i left itn and when i moved on to a pension and i had a punch up with an accountant over various bits and pieces to do with my pension that we i've talked about that with the consultants and high pressure episodes like that. and high pressure episodes like that . stressful, very stressful that. stressful, very stressful , yeah. because again , i knew , yeah. because again, i knew a little bit about it, but i've read as you can imagine, because you know me and i do, i read as much as i can anyway. but the

connection with blood pressure is, is, is absolutely the headune. is, is, is absolutely the headline . yeah. and that's why headline. yeah. and that's why if you think you've got what i've got or that you might develop it then right now now alastair stewart to camera stop smoking if you have an occasional glass of wine fair enough. if you regularly get completely out of it, stop . completely out of it, stop. >> yes. >> yes. >> and if you do go for a walk, occasionally do it more frequently. because if you can get your blood pressure under control and it is most likely to be lifestyle style things rather than something pathologic , you than something pathologic, you may never know what caused them , but the end of the day, you , but at the end of the day, you have spent years in front of have spent 45 years in front of the camera and that is at times a really stressful job. >> mean, we look through >> i mean, we look through obviously i sort of revised once again your illustrious cv and we look at some of the things you've obviously, the you've covered. obviously, the miners strike back the day, miners strike back in the day, the of the berlin wall. you the fall of the berlin wall. you went first gulf war and went to the first gulf war and you reported there from kuwait reporting from kuwait city. you fronted up every itv news program that there was obviously

, you then had a change of career quite late on in your life, as you say, late 60s to come news. that's a lot of come gb news. that's a lot of stress for man cope with stress for one man to cope with performance careers are by performance of careers are by very definition pretty stressful. >> yes, i think sometimes folk at home who are kind enough to watch us or or listen to us on on digital radio or online or however they do it . if we do it however they do it. if we do it or hopefully touch wood as well as you do. and i used to and others like steve this morning think that it's not quite a walk in the park . think that it's not quite a walk in the park. but but but we do a lot of homework. you've got a lot of homework. you've got a lot of homework. you've got a lot of it in front of you now. so that when you go into the studio, you are prepared to do it. yes. but you've got an earpiece in. the director is saying, okay, fine, we've got about minutes on this about four minutes to go on this now. and don't forget that you're talking next when you're to talking next or when you're to talking next or when you to alex chalk you were talking to alex chalk earlier the escape and earlier on about the escape and you were going to be to you were then going to be to talking the minister about fraud

and stuff like that that's constantly coming in. but you mentioned 1 or 2 of the things. so like berlin, berlin's a classic example. i was ill, i wasn't ill then. i was absolutely fit as a fiddle, totally on top of my game. but you've got to remember the history of the berlin wall. you've got to remember the history of the soviet union, the cold war . history of the soviet union, the cold war. you've also history of the soviet union, the cold war . you've also got to cold war. you've also got to remember what your dad in my case said to me as a serving bomber , command senior officer bomber, command senior officer about what the berlin wall meant and what the cold war was really about. and i can remember i absolutely remember every word of all of that and what i'd read . and if you and i then pause and we then go on to do something else and suddenly from india, we get word that that that sunak has decided that the trade talks have gone so well. he's going to call a snappy election, which of course he can do now then we've got to move on that and we'd be ready and we'd both be ready to do that. >> i know. well, in light of the

fact that you've always been ready to do that, and in fact, you said in your biography for gb you first started, gb news when you first started, you a little piece and you you wrote a little piece and you said the biggest compliment that was made to is that was ever made to you is that people hope al was if people used to hope al was in if a story broke because you're a big story broke because you're such a safe pair of hands now, we wanted to make an announcement today announcement on the show today because you know, we because as i think you know, we are launching a new of are launching a new set of westminster studios in westminster. we're in westminster. yes we're here in paddington and that's great. but when mps and when i'm interviewing mps and chris hope is interviewing them and the of we need and all the rest of it, we need and all the rest of it, we need a studio close house of a studio close to the house of parliament. yeah we are parliament. yeah now we are going naming our main going to be naming our main westminster alastair westminster studio, the alastair stewart studio in your stewart westmin studio in your honoun stewart westmin studio in your honour. and we wanted to tell you that this morning. >> did you also want to reduce me because have me to tears because you have just cameron showed me just done so? cameron showed me around the studio complex when i did the interview with him about the and the king, and it's the queen and the king, and it's utterly and you utterly fantastic. and you mentioned in passing mentioned there just in passing a a part of the team. >> now, you're pleased with this, alastair, i've got someone, as you know, now

winding me up in my ear, but i'm deeply honoured. >> i'm deeply honoured and deeply touched that. i deeply touched by that. and i look forward to working from there closer to the election. >> alastair, i hope see you >> alastair, i hope we see you again the studio because we'd again in the studio because we'd love to see you back on gb news and wish all the very and we wish you all the very best with your health following this diagnosis. thank you so much camilla. much for camilla. >> very much indeed. >> thank you very much indeed. and the line, and again, down the line, straight the thank straight to the camera. thank you, news the whole team you, gb news and the whole team for looking after and for here looking after me and being really employers and being really good employers and don't forget, thank you, nhs as well . we'll be fine. i'll see well. we'll be fine. i'll see you soon. good

>> good morning and welcome to sunday with michael portillo. but this week with me, emily carver . i will but this week with me, emily carver. i will aim of course, to fill michael's mighty shows for the next two hours, bringing you a mixture of politics, arts, culture and world affairs. so kicking off with politics. first, i'll be joined by madeline grant the telegraph madeline grant of the telegraph and researcher laurie madeline grant of the telegraph and to researcher laurie madeline grant of the telegraph and to discuss'cher laurie madeline grant of the telegraph and to discuss a|er laurie madeline grant of the telegraph and to discuss a chaotice laban to discuss a chaotic resumption of the parliamentary calendar for the government after the summer recess with dodgy concrete in schools. a controversial trade deal with india all on rishi sunak's

plate. now after that, we'll be