before the tory party conference in manchester next month . in manchester next month. downing street has sought to play downing street has sought to play down reports the prime minister is drawing up plans to slash inheritance tax. the sunday times claims rishi sunak is considering reducing the current rate in march in that budget, despite a warning by chancellor jeremy budget, despite a warning by chancellorjeremy hunt, he would have no headroom for tax cuts. death duties charged at 40. but the vast majority of estates fall below the threshold. so married couples can pass on £1 million to their kids without being taxed at. the liberal democrats are calling on the government to triple tax for social media firms to fund having a mental health worker for all schools in england. the proposal would see the digital services levy raised from 2 to 6% of company revenues . deputy 6% of company revenues. deputy leader daisy cooper told her party conference earlier today that mental health has dropped off the political radar. she introduced a wider package of

proposals, including regular check ups on the nhs . for those check ups on the nhs. for those at risk . and finally, nasa has at risk. and finally, nasa has successfully landed the largest asteroid sample ever collected back on earth. the specimen is a remnant of our early solar system , which scientists believe system, which scientists believe can shed light on how the planets formed and life on our planets formed and life on our planet began, which is estimated to be 4.5 million years old. it was checked for any damage and wrapped in thermal blanketing before recovered by before being recovered by helicopter using cargo . net helicopter using a cargo. net ulez gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's over to free speech nation . the over to free speech nation. the house of lords passes a bill that threatens our free speech. >> rishi sunak backs down on his net zero plans and a woman of colour is excluded from an otherwise all white panel in the name of diversity . see, this is

name of diversity. see, this is free speech nation . welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics coming up on the show tonight. should rishi sunak have backed down on net zero plans? down on his net zero plans? we're to going feisty we're to going have a feisty debate shortly from the leaders of climate party and fair of the climate party and fair fuel uk and as the video platform rumble rumbles on after rejecting calls to rejecting government calls to demonetise russell brand , we'll demonetise russell brand, we'll be talking free speech online with co—founder of fair cop, sarah phillimore. plus, we'll be speaking to a women's health writer who's been censored for using word woman when she using the word woman when she was asked to contribute expert quotes to an article on periods . and of course, myself and my fantastic panel will be answering questions from our rather studio rather beautiful studio audience, my studio guests this evening are comedians paul cox and cressida wetton, who . and cressida wetton, who. fighting week for you, cressida

because i dunno if our audience knows, but you have been living on a boat for a long time. >> five and a half, very long years. andrew and this week, sort of cartoon character, like a cartoon character, a rosie cartoon character, like somebody who's who's somebody with a plan who's who's working towards the property ladden ladder. and i live in a flat now. a flat. it's been a it's now. a flat. so it's been a it's been a really nice week having very long showers. yeah, it's the gb news money has enabled you to claim your grifter, right? >> what about you, paul ? >> what about you, paul? >> what about you, paul? >> you know, you're living in you know, you're in london when someone cheered for living someone gets cheered for living in . oh, that madness. in a flat. oh, that is madness. well in a flat. oh, that is madness. weicome on, then. us about >> come on, then. tell us about your lawn. how's that? >> great. and does >> my lawn is great. and does anyone about my lawn? anyone know about my lawn? >> no one knows, paul. >> no one knows, paul. >> well, check out. no >> no. well, check me out. no one but let's talk about one cares. but let's talk about it anyway. it's kind of it anyway. yeah, it's kind of green. and at back my green. and at the back of my house. yeah. green. and at the back of my h0lis. yeah. green. and at the back of my h0lis that h. green. and at the back of my h0lis that it? >> is that it? >> is that it? >> yeah. yeah. is that the back of your. you can see it on instagram once a month. >> okay, enough of paul's >> okay, paul, enough of paul's wild anecdotes. i don't think your able to your audience will be able to cope. get some cope. let's instead get some questions the audience. our questions from the audience. our first question is roger. hi first question is from roger. hi rogen first question is from roger. hi roger. your question?

first question is from roger. hi roger. canyour question? first question is from roger. hi roger. canyour > yeah, it's an interesting question. this is because a porpoise well, paw patrol question. this is because a porrthere's well, paw patrol question. this is because a porrthere's a well, paw patrol question. this is because a porrthere's a welof’aw patrol question. this is because a porrthere's a welof spin’atrol question. this is because a porrthere's a welof spin off)l has there's a sort of spin off to paw patrol kids like it's a kids show and they've created a new character who is a non—binary , i think, non—binary, i think, skateboarder skateboarding dog. now do you have any views on this? >> oh yeah, i have some views on this. okay, go on. i mean, there's a lot to take in, isn't there? skateboarding dogs? i mean all all dogs are non—binary to me. i mean, i never. well they are aren't they. i walk a lot. i do, i like to walk. i mean i know the appearance would suggest otherwise, but just imagine if i didn't and, and when out walking often when i'm out walking i'll often like dog and talk to the like pet a dog and talk to the owner end owner and i'll end up misgendering the all the misgendering the dog all the time. i how is she or he? time. i go, how is she or he? and they get quite upset. so i think most dogs get upset. no, the dogs don't care. no the dogs don't just want a bit don't care. they just want a bit of a bit of a ruffle. of a ruffle. a bit of a ruffle. yeah. >> but i don't think they are actually non—binary. >> no, the dogs aren't non—binary. don't care. non—binary. they don't care. and i is i

non—binary. they don't care. and i isi need non—binary. they don't care. and i is i need to i guess my point is i need to make one andrew. because that's why asked me here. my why you've asked me here. my point that shouldn't point is that it shouldn't really matter. this is a cartoon at the end of the day. so these are these that are these are dogs that are fighting crime skateboards. fighting crime on skateboards. so leap anyway. so that's quite a leap anyway. so that's quite a leap anyway. so mean, so we can take two so i mean, so we can take two views on this. one is that it doesn't matter. and one is that it's ridiculous continually it's ridiculous to continually get children involved in this debate get children involved in this dcome down on at the end. i come down on at the end. >> that's my point about this, is i think it's this is that i think that it's this weird indoctrination right? which i find bit mean, which i find a bit odd. i mean, it'd be like the dogs sitting down and discussing queer theory or something and you or something like that, and you would odd for the would think that's odd for the dog. odd. it's for adults, >> it is odd. it's for adults, isn't for or at least isn't it? it's for or at least you know, people are a lot later than people watching cartoons. i think that is far too early. i'm happy skateboarding happy to introduce skateboarding dogs dogs questioning happy to introduce skateboarding dogs gender. dogs questioning their gender. >> this constant >> why why this constant politicised an because politicised an is it because activists after kids activists are going after kids effectively? looking that way, >> well, it's looking that way, isn't it? >> i mean, it's an interesting there was that you know that cartoon yes. there was cartoon bluey yes. there was a big article in the pink news about complaining that about bluey complaining that there enough well, queer

there weren't enough well, queer characters. described characters. and they described there weren't any dogs of colour. and is about colour. and this is about a there's a blue dog on bluey. bluey yeah. there bluey is blue. yeah. so there were colour. i mean but were dogs of colour. i mean but for to be dogs of colour for there to be dogs of colour they'd have to give some other attribute so that they view as of colour. >> well exactly. other than colour racist. >> they would i i just colour racist. >> tiit'swould i i just colour racist. >> tiit'swcbit, i i just colour racist. >> tiit'swcbit, it's i just colour racist. >> tiit'swcbit, it's a i just colour racist. >> tiit'swcbit, it's a bit just think it's a bit, it's a bit ridiculous but do you have any views on this yourself. you just think you think it's just rubbish. that's fair enough. fair enough. well said. you basically covered all of it. >> yeah, in one sentence. >> yeah, in one sentence. >> and we spent the last two minutes rabbiting on. okay well, let's get a question from andrea . where's andrea? hi, andrea. .where's andrea? hi, andrea. sorry i thought you were an italian man, but actually, you're not. >> should schools pander to the wishes of a pupil who wants to be treated as a member of the opposite sex? >> this is a big deal, isn't it? this is the. the news this week. the equalities watchdog, the equality human rights equality and human rights commission, hrc , has commission, the hrc, has basically said that they made a mistake to say mistake. so they used to say that you refuse to refer to

that if you refuse to refer to a child by their chosen name and genden child by their chosen name and gender, that that was a form of direct discrimination. that's what they said. people what they said. lots of people pointed lot pointed out, didn't they? a lot , lots of campaigners said. but that's the law. and often that's not the law. and often these bodies get law wrong. these bodies get the law wrong. and because and that's a problem because people these to people look to these bodies to find out what the law is. that's now being clarified. now, i think this really important, think this is really important, paul think this is really important, paul, i know of paul, because i know lots of teachers. they used to be a teacher. i have one teacher friend who's been told that he needs to the school reports, needs to in the school reports, use birth of the pupil. use the birth name of the pupil. but classroom, speak to but in the classroom, speak to the name that she the pupil with the name that she now wants to called by. in now wants to be called by. in other lie to the parents. other words, lie to the parents. and that's coming from the headmaster of the school. so that's headmaster of the school. so tha well, of course it's a >> well, of course it's a problem. i mean, first of all, we should never pander to kids. no no, no, we shouldn't. you know, this, you know, i mean, i say this, you know, i mean, i say this, you know, i mean, i say this, you know, i gave my daughter £40 this afternoon to go shopping. i don't she's going to don't know what she's going to buy but there you go. buy with it, but there you go. me about money again. me talking about money again. sorry guys. >> out of elm-- >> she was out of the house. >> she was out of the house. >> she was out of the house. i don't know she is now. don't know where she is now.

yeah, gave her a and yeah, i gave her a vape and said, on your way. i'm going to do gb news. >> and now there'll be food on the but yeah, it's this the table. but yeah, it's this is serious matter. is a very serious matter. >> the and at heart >> and at the and at the heart of it is gender dysphoria. and it might as well not be because we the whole debate has been taken becoming taken over by everybody becoming whatever to be at any whatever they want to be at any given time. you get given time. how can you get someone's right when someone's gender right when people gender fluid people that are gender fluid wake up with different gender wake up with a different gender every the week? every day of the week? how are we supposed guess? and this we supposed to guess? and this does if does does happen. and if it does happen when you're in when happen and when you're in when you're school situation, you're in a school situation, surely you're just teaching the pupils really pupils and you shouldn't really matter they come matter anyway. and if they come in they're geoffrey, in and they're called geoffrey, let's a boy. let's just assume they're a boy. well, sure. >> it's actually difficult >> it's actually very difficult as teacher. i know because as a teacher. i know because every year you have to learn every new year you have to learn 100 new names. you have to learn. and school, used learn. and my school, they used to like little to give you like little photographs names so photographs with the names so you'd them you'd so you'd learn them quite quickly. to learn quickly. if you have to learn a whole set of pronouns as well, then it's going to be basically impossible, yeah exactly. >> p- p" >> i mean this must be a huge relief teachers and down relief for teachers up and down the country. they're walking a tightrope before this is. this

is isn't it? what we've is great, isn't it? what we've been calling for? it's taken a long time. yes, but finally, it's one less thing to worry about. >> w t— >> well, also, it's clearly largely you know, largely a trend, you know, particularly amongst teenage girls, identifying particularly amongst teenage girls, opposite identifying particularly amongst teenage girls, opposite sex, dentifying particularly amongst teenage girls, opposite sex, which (ing particularly amongst teenage girls, opposite sex, which and as the opposite sex, which and it's escalated absolutely hugely. but shouldn't hugely. but you shouldn't necessarily pander to that, should you? >> absolutely well, >> no, absolutely not. well, it's you it's a crude analogy, but you don't anorexic. yeah, don't tell an anorexic. yeah, you're you're pretty you're right. you're pretty porky. you know, you don't you don't that. that's. don't do that. no that's. well, have schaffer? have you met lewis schaffer? well, at school. no i met well, we did at school. no i met lewis. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> lewis. that's exactly he >> lewis. that's exactly what he does. but yeah, i mean, it's does. no but yeah, i mean, it's not appropriate, is it? does. no but yeah, i mean, it's not andropriate, is it? does. no but yeah, i mean, it's not and it'siate, is it? does. no but yeah, i mean, it's notand it'siate, isis? does. no but yeah, i mean, it's notand it'siate, is is difficult >> and it's and it is difficult for parent, i'm glad for the parent, but i'm glad this getting clarified. the this is getting clarified. the government to government has still yet to pubush publish their guidelines on this. don't why this. i mean, i don't know why they're dragging their heels on this. so schools basically this. so schools are basically making it up. they don't know what to do. >> yeah, and really >> yeah, and that's really unfortunate. think when unfortunate. and i think when you do, you you don't know what to do, you should back to common sense. >> yeah, good idea. okay well, we're to go on to a we're going to go on to a question from nigel. nigel. question from nigel. hi, nigel. >> as rambling racist is rambling >> as rambling racist is ran nigel, know if you've >> nigel, i don't know if you've noficed >> nigel, i don't know if you've noticed every week noticed this, but every week there a story about this, how there is a story about this, how there is a story about this, how the side is racist, how the country side is racist, how are gardens at kew

are the botanical gardens at kew aren't sufficiently homosexual royal all all this aren't sufficiently homosexual royé of all all this aren't sufficiently homosexual royé of true. all this aren't sufficiently homosexual royéof true. it's all this aren't sufficiently homosexual royéof true. it's just:his sort of stuff. true. it's just sort of stuff. true. it's just so actually, no , i kind so stupid. actually, no, i kind of think. when will this just stop? i mean, when it stops, i won't show. won't have a show. >> i that's a price worth >> i think that's a price worth paying, >> i think that's a price worth paying, be honest. it's so paying, to be honest. it's so ridiculous . ridiculous. >> there was e there was a ridiculous. >> there was a pink >> there was. there was a pink news article news again. they did an article about queer hikers. about a group of queer hikers. right. they call themselves queer and they said queer hikers. and they said because until access to because up until now, access to the has really the outdoors has been really difficult people. i'm difficult for gay people. i'm like, no , we can walk outside. like, no, we can walk outside. wow we've been doing it for years. in fact , gay people are years. in fact, gay people are particularly that. i particularly good at that. i would say . would say. >> i wouldn't like to comment because when i go hiking, i don't know the person is gay don't know if the person is gay or no, i don't think about or not. no, i don't think about ethnic diversity. >> anyone walk >> i mean, look, anyone can walk in and it's i in the countryside and it's i worry really worry that this is really patronising. it's very patronising. it's very patronising. people suggesting there's a barrier there. >> absolutely . yeah. patronising >> absolutely. yeah. patronising is word, isn't it? if not is the word, isn't it? if not full full on racist. i mean, the idea that you would tell somebody their lives are somebody that their lives are going different, know, going to be different, you know, to just absurd to that level, it's just absurd to that level, it's just absurd to me. >> you won't be able to get a

rambling because you're the wrong tone. wrong skin tone. >> ridiculous. >> utterly ridiculous. that's never is it? and the never happened, is it? and the idea within this idea i mean, when within this article was written this idea i mean, when within this articleit was written this idea i mean, when within this articleit talksas written this idea i mean, when within this articleit talks aboutten this idea i mean, when within this articleit talks about the this week, it talks about the geographical in geographical locations in some way been contrived , way that it's been contrived, that they've deliberately put footpaths that 3000 years footpaths that are 3000 years old, cases in places old, in some cases in places they knew in 3000 years time would be mainly occupied by white people. right. and then and then on the other hand, they say, well, isn't many in say, well, there isn't many in the southampton. the middle of southampton. you're like, no one goes rambling middle of rambling in the middle of southampton. nothing southampton. it's got nothing to do the colour the people. >> just it's this >> yeah, it's just it's this sort of hyper racialized society >> yeah, it's just it's this s it: of hyper racialized society >> yeah, it's just it's this s it was1yper racialized society >> yeah, it's just it's this s it was nonsense.lized society . it was nonsense. >> looking looking >> it's looking for looking for problems any. problems where there aren't any. >> got >> absolutely. okay. we've got a question solomon. hi, solomon. >> hi, sir. you're right. my question is it okay for question is, is it okay for parents take their children parents to take their children out of school? >> is a big well, >> yeah, this is a big well, this debate goes on and on. i mean, about school mean, this is about school holidays. tricky, holidays. and it is tricky, isn't because sticking holidays. and it is tricky, isn' school cause sticking holidays. and it is tricky, isn' school holidays cking that , the school holidays means that, well, expensive. the well, it's more expensive. the holidays as because holidays aren't as good because everyone their kids everyone else takes their kids away. solomon, do think away. solomon, do you think parents punished if parents should be punished if they in during parents should be punished if they time? in during term time? >> not sure about that, but it just depends on like the

particular reason. like if it depends on the reasoning , like depends on the reasoning, like if it's to do with sickness or if it's to do with sickness or if it's to do with like emergency reasons or something, but not just to money, but not just to save money, then you it depends you save money. but it depends on like the on the reason. like what the teacher like what on the reason. like what the tea> i mean when i was a kid, we didn't day unless our didn't get a day off unless our arm broken or something. arm was broken or something. >> you had break your arm. >> you did. >> you did. >> that's we did. andrew >> that's what we did. andrew yeah, just think it's yeah, i just i think it's hilarious parents have kids hilarious that parents have kids and save £200 or something and then save £200 or something by the date. it's like by changing the date. it's like kids expensive, aren't they? kids are expensive, aren't they? how much does cost? how much does a child cost? i think quite a lot in the think it's quite a lot in the course its lifespan. course of its lifespan. >> it's something like £1 million >> it's something like £1 milion you get a very >> i think you could get a very nice if you didn't have nice property if you didn't have a child. is yeah, that's the alternative. >> yeah. now you've had how many children? >> one. just one. yeah that

you're aware of. there we go. >> the problem with >> yeah. and the problem with that is, you know, you are now poorer as a result and your life is depleted and well, it's not. >> have you been reading my diary? andrew >> i'm just saying you would have a more wholesome, enjoyable existence if it weren't for your child . child. >> well, that's not true at all. no, not for me it's not. no. because you actually like yours. yeah, i really do love my daughter. and she does enrich my yeah, i really do love my daugl mean,d she does enrich my yeah, i really do love my daugl mean, shee does enrich my yeah, i really do love my daugl mean, she drives enrich my yeah, i really do love my daugl mean, she drives meich my life. i mean, she drives me nuts, she costs a lot of nuts, and she costs me a lot of money in vapes. as i said earlier. but this debate has come because the come around because of the pandemic . that's why come pandemic. that's why it's come around, because were told around, because kids were told and as well were told and parents as well were told just to go and then they just to go home and then they stayed home for ages. and it seemed okay. now seemed to work. okay. now they're we need to they're going, why do we need to bother back been bother going back and it's been difficult cultural difficult to change the cultural view on this. >> i see. i see interesting. although have although if you'd have had a whippet . oh, i'd love whippet instead. oh, i'd love a whippet. you could wearing whippet. you could be wearing ermine. just be whippet. you could be wearing ermi dripping just be whippet. you could be wearing ermi dripping in just be whippet. you could be wearing ermi dripping in jewels.jst be like, dripping in jewels. >> would be, yeah. yes. and >> i would be, yeah. yes. and that's what how you that's what this is how you imagine. just me

with. >> i imagine you dressed like a west african pimp. that's how i always you. always see you. >> again? you've been >> you again? you've been reading andrew. reading my diary, andrew. >> yeah. okay. well, we'll get another from another question now from our audience. alan. audience. this one from alan. where's alan? hi, alan. >> hi, andrew. guys with the media reporting the perfect storm, um, for the anti—establishment politics in europe, could we see the rise of anti—establishment established politics in the uk? >> well, we probably could. i mean, this is an interesting one. this study this week was quite astonishing . they're quite astonishing. they're saying one third of european voters are now voting for populist parties and by that they mean far right or far left. just anything on the on the extremes. right. i i'm not so sure about that because often the media misunderstand what far right and far left means. and they sort of they bracket all sorts of quite moderate parties within that . but is it could it within that. but is it could it happenin within that. but is it could it happen in the i mean, the question from alan is if it could happen here. but actually our parliamentary kind our parliamentary system is kind of fixed so that you could you

couldn't have smaller parties rise up. we've got this first past the post system unless we had proportional representation, we'd never get the rise of smaller parties and more coalitions, we? coalitions, would we? >> never say never. no, >> well, never say never. no, not not as things are now. i mean. but i want to go back and define terms, know, define our terms, you know, what do by far right do we mean by by far right before we start arguing? because do we mean by by far right bedoesne start arguing? because do we mean by by far right bedoes seem rt arguing? because do we mean by by far right bedoes seem that, uing? because do we mean by by far right bedoes seem that, well, because do we mean by by far right bedoes seem that, well, evenuse it does seem that, well, even populist, what do we mean by populist? >> right. because because that word is so mistrusted. but what it political it really means is a political party that appeals to the people sounds a lot like democracy, sort like democracy. sort of sounds like democracy. alan do you have any thoughts on this populism is actually becoming more popular. >> i a friend who's >> yeah, i have a friend who's so far on the left actually. she refers to the bbc as a far right organisation . well, it does organisation. well, it does depend on your position within the spectrum to start with . the spectrum to start with. >> that's hilarious. a lot of people also say that the bbc is far left. in fact, that's that's the complaint i more often i think that's normal. >> depends where you're >> it depends where you're starting you're starting place. if you're starting place. if you're starting then yes. >> so if

$- $— & knows what these >> so if no one knows what these terms then i mean, people terms mean, then i mean, people have the current have referred to the current conservative as far conservative government as far right. i've genuinely heard that people was the people just think it was in the article. makes me laugh. >> i just it makes me laugh. that's don't know what that's so don't know what they're about. they're talking about. >> no idea. >> absolutely no idea. >> absolutely no idea. >> that >> and isn't it just awful that people books? people should read more books? >> oh, that would be great. yeah. did more yeah. if people did read more books. but books take a long time to and people like to time to read and people like to receive information in 25 second chunks now. so just get receive information in 25 second churin now. so just get receive information in 25 second churin those so just get receive information in 25 second churin those 25 just get receive information in 25 second churin those 25 secondjst get told in those 25 second chunks, something you like to hear, you'll that. something you like to hear, you do that. something you like to hear, youdo you that. something you like to hear, you do you want at. something you like to hear, you do you want there to be lots >> do you want there to be lots of smaller parties? because i actually the coalition actually think the coalition system pretty across system works pretty well across europe. see europe. i don't i don't see i don't everyone's so don't see why everyone's so afraid the people afraid of this. the only people who to want parties who tend to want smaller parties are are on the fringes are those who are on the fringes and want small parties raise and want small parties to raise up, very up, which is which is very interesting up, which is which is very intelasting up, which is which is very intel mean, would be better to >> i mean, it would be better to have than maybe four have more than two, maybe four parties, for instance. and we do have than parties. but have more than two parties. but well, did have well, no, i mean, we did have the lib dems. do you remember them? >> really. them? >> i really. them? >> i think|lly. them? >> i think i.y. them? >> i think i think they'll be back during the back in play during the next election. ones. >> the yellow >> yeah, they were the yellow ones. yeah >> okay. >> okay. >> bloke called >> the bloke called tim's in charge now. >> you know, but i'm

>> yeah, but you know, but i'm talking serious parties, talking about serious parties, you it would be you know, so i think it would be quite get smaller quite good to get some smaller parties running. parties up and running. well, the benefit of smaller parties as well they can scare as well is they can scare whoever's power, can't whoever's in power, can't they? >> can something and >> they can raise something and bang h >> they can raise something and bang it and bang the drum about it and have a and brexit party did that. >> that's right. yeah, exactly. >> that's right. yeah, exactly. >> and actually did make a radical difference the radical difference to the country so more country by existing. so more of that be interesting. country by existing. so more of tha let's be interesting. country by existing. so more of tha let's not be interesting. country by existing. so more of tha let's not forgetbe interesting. country by existing. so more of tha let's not forget there's'esting. country by existing. so more of tha let's not forget there's lots|g. >> let's not forget there's lots of factions within the parties that there's of that we got. there's lots of factions within the tory party and there's huge amounts of factions labour party. yeah, party. ye... >> yeah, well, the labour party seems to be two parties in seems to me to be two parties in one at the moment, but you know, anyway, for anyway, that's a question for a different look, that's what got >> well look, that's what we got time for, this section of time for for, this section of the next free the show. but next up on free speech video speech nation, after the video platform, rumble rejected platform, rumble has rejected government demonetise government calls to demonetise russell to russell brand. we're going to be talking free speech online with the co—founder of fair cop, sarah after sarah phillimore. that's after the

radio. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle, the video platform good evil affected and mps call to

demonetise . the actor and demonetise. the actor and comedian russell brand . caroline comedian russell brand. caroline dinenage the concert live chair of the culture, media and sport committee, wrote to rumble's chief executive chris pavlovski to express concerns that brand may be able to profit from his content on the platform . but content on the platform. but rumble responded . rumble says rumble responded. rumble says it's inappropriate and dangerous for parliament to attempt to control who makes money from content . now, obviously we're content. now, obviously we're not going to speculate on the allegations that have been made against brand . and i should against mr brand. and i should add, any wrongdoing. add, he denies any wrongdoing. but have the co—founder of but i do have the co—founder of fair cop and the lawyer, sarah phillimore, joining me now today . sarah a lot of people have reacted very badly to this. the idea of a conservative mp writing to rumble and basically putting pressure on them to suggest that he ought to be demonetised . and what you demonetised. and what did you make that letter ? make of that letter? >> with a lot of >> well, i along with a lot of other was other people, thought it was appalling. thought it was appalling. i thought it was state and interference state overreach and interference . and i then went on to have some interesting some very interesting conversations with people on social media going, oh, don't be

silly. not an agent of silly. an mp is not an agent of the state. and this just the state. and this was just this was just, know, it was this was just, you know, it was just casual inquiry, you know, just a casual inquiry, you know, having little chat. having a little chat. and i said, look, on with said, look, it's on paper with the portcullis . it says the portcullis. yes. it says from the uk parliament. i mean, rumble certainly thought was rumble certainly thought it was a missive from the state, of course. just course. and it wasn't just rumble, was youtube, rumble, was it? it was youtube, it was facebook, it was gb news. rumble, was it? it was youtube, it was everybody. t was gb news. it was everybody. >> it went everywhere. now, youtube actually demonetise >> it went everywhere. now, youtubebrand.:tually demonetise >> it went everywhere. now, youtubebrand. now,' demonetise >> it went everywhere. now, youtubebrand. now,' dem0|a tise russell brand. now, this is a well, rumble's point was that, you know , this is someone who you know, this is someone who hasn't charged , hasn't gone hasn't been charged, hasn't gone through there through due process. there hasn't . and so hasn't been a trial. and so for them assume guilt, it would them to assume guilt, it would be all of our be to bypass all of our fundamental values when it comes to legal process. >> again some of the >> right. again some of the arguments was having, you arguments i was having, you know, hasn't assumed guilt. know, she hasn't assumed guilt. don't well, she used don't be silly. well, she used the she she talked the word victims. she she talked about upset by about people being upset by inappropriate behaviour. i think the word allegation slipped in there . but no, i think there somewhere. but no, i think you're right. this you're absolutely right. this was an assumption of guilt. therefore a correct punishment is remove his contact or is to remove his contact or demonetise it. yes and that i am just flabbergasted that people

think that that is acceptable . think that that is acceptable. well, because what they're doing is on individual is focusing on an individual that we can't that they don't like. we can't speculate about the allegations, but what but of course, from what i've heard, looks as though he has heard, it looks as though he has crossed a criminal on crossed a criminal line on a number the number of occasions. the question is, do do with question is, what do we do with that information ? is that that information? is that actually to be with actually going to be dealt with in court it in a criminal court where it should or it going should be, or is it going to be deau should be, or is it going to be dealt the of dealt with in the court of twitter yes. twitter? yes. >> we should emphasise >> well, we should emphasise that denies any that russell brand denies any criminality whatsoever. so ultimately, and he is as entitled to due process as everyone else, isn't he? mean, everyone else, isn't he? i mean, this idea that just because he's a we all in a celebrity, we can all weigh in with opinion. i mean, we with our opinion. i mean, we haven't we haven't seen the evidence. we don't haven't seen the evidence. we dorit's something so ugly has >> it's something so ugly has been happening in the last couple of days on my timeline. >> certainly, because it seems to boiling the fact to be boiling down to the fact where he's rich, he can just for to be boiling down to the fact whelibel.s rich, he can just for to be boiling down to the fact whe libel. well, he can just for to be boiling down to the fact whe libel. well, he cnot ust for to be boiling down to the fact whe libel. well, he cnot going sue libel. well, he's not going to rich if you've to be that rich if you've completely prevented him from earning a living. and there's. well, you believe the well, you know, you believe the victims. been a rape victims. i've been called a rape apologist now countless times saying dispatches. was saying dispatches. oh, it was a wonderful investigation. well, dispatches has form. i mean, they previous documentary they did a previous documentary about the family justice system,

something and something i know inside out. and that not an impressive piece that was not an impressive piece of journalism . but the bottom of journalism. but the bottom line remains, it's a one sided inaya investigation into the accounts of people with a particular narrative. i understand that brand was given eight days to respond to allegations that went back almost a decade. now, that isn't fair. that isn't right. and for people to say, well, he's horrible, he's slimy, i don't like the way he looks, we'll think about christopher jefferies. basically jefferies. he was basically called and a because called a murderer and a because he had odd hair. yeah it's just and was on the front cover of papers and all sorts of things. >> and it's just so frightening. >> and it's just so frightening. >> it's not just that people are content , but >> it's not just that people are content, but for this to happen, they're actively cheerleading for and that's where i just for it. and that's where i just begin to feel very, very frightened because, okay, it's fine when it's somebody you don't but but what happens don't like, but but what happens if it's your brother, your husband, so are we husband, your father? so are we moving into a culture where people are just assuming guilt or has this come about maybe i mean , just to give the other mean, just to give the other side, you know, we do live in a

country where rape convictions are women feel they >> a lot of women feel they can't even go to the police because know odds because they know that the odds of getting to court of their case getting to court are infinitesimal. are pretty much infinitesimal. so this idea believe the so this idea of believe the complainant, even though they use the word victim, they mean complainant. there's a there's an you can understand why people want to do . want to do. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> there's an inevitable backlash against a criminal justice has failed justice system which has failed and why it's failing and is failing. why it's failing is another massive question. part of the reason it's failing is it's been systemically starved of resources for over 20 years. so i, i don't for a moment doubt that women feel well, there's no point in taking this to the police. it will drag on for years. i'm going to be treated like crap. i'm going to have to hand over my phone. my entire digital history revealed. have to hand over my phone. my entire true.|l history revealed. have to hand over my phone. my entire true. butstory revealed. have to hand over my phone. my entire true. but that revealed. have to hand over my phone. my entire true. but that doesn'ti that's true. but that doesn't mean that what are mean that what people are advocating good, advocating for now is good, because what they're advocating for now will each and every for now will hurt each and every one of us, any one us could one of us, any one of us could be of a malicious or be the victim of a malicious or false accusation . false accusation. >> now, well, activists will say the allegations are

the false allegations are incredibly rare . and if we don't incredibly rare. and if we don't believe people make these believe people who make these allegations, it allegations, we're making it harder people who have been. >> they may rare, but they're >> they may be rare, but they're not impossible. >> look eleanor i >> look at eleanor williams. i myself have been subject of myself have been the subject of false and malicious accusations . and are people going to turn around say, well, sue around to me and say, well, sue them for libel then. >> i we this with >> so i mean, we saw this with operation where you had >> so i mean, we saw this with op absolute where you had >> so i mean, we saw this with op absolute fantasist here you had >> so i mean, we saw this with op absolute fantasist here volupid an absolute fantasist making up lies leading political lies about leading political figures that i mean, i saw him and knew it was false. >> and i was surprised that people could potentially even have believed it for a second. but came out and but scotland yard came out and said they credible and true said they were credible and true now ruined people's now and it ruined people's lives. so we have to be aware that false allegations can happen and do happen for all sorts of reasons. happen and do happen for all sonas»f reasons. happen and do happen for all sonas a reasons. happen and do happen for all sonas a culture, we're losing >> as a culture, we're losing sight of what thought sight of what i thought was always lodestone . always the police lodestone. assume nothing, believe nobody , assume nothing, believe nobody, investigate everything. and it's really sad and surprising that the henriques report appears to have buried. i can't find have been buried. i can't find it online, and that was a direct response to operation midland going, look, this is crazy. you can't believe victims. can't just believe victims. but then that's all tangled up with

then that's all tangled up with the movement. the metoo movement. again, i understand where that's coming from. long time were from. women for a long time were not believed, were taken not believed, were not taken seriously . but not believed, were not taken seriously. but as not believed, were not taken seriously . but as always seriously. but as i've always repeatedly , the moment any repeatedly said, the moment any investigator starts with a premise of belief that investigation is fatally flawed and corrupted. >> but even the language you've highlighted , the fact that we highlighted, the fact that we now victim rather now say victim rather than complainant i believe complainant. but i believe that's keir starmer that's a legacy of keir starmer time as director public time as director of public prosecutions, the language was changed during his tenure and of course that does presuppose guilt if you if you start using that language, even psychologically, even if it is just a shorthand for complainant, it does psychologically change things, doesn't psychologically change things, doewords really do matter. >> words really do matter. >> words really do matter. >> of course, victim is immediately inspires us to think of a very particular situation. and another argument i've been having people online is having with people online is i'm allowed a rapist. if allowed to call him a rapist. if i rapists like i want, but rapists like murderer has a very specific context, and that's from the criminal law context. so i think thatis criminal law context. so i think that is disingenuous to say i have a right to call him x, y, z , when those are concepts of the criminal law i think is

disingenuous . a lot of people disingenuous. a lot of people are saying, oh, well, due process meaningless process is meaningless until it's i don't think it's in a court. i don't think so all. not with allegations so at all. not with allegations that serious and also, that are so serious and also, russell brand has raised the spectre of the online safety bill and has suggested that these allegations and the fact that a conservative mp wrote to rumble that tied with rumble that it's tied up with this new culture, that the that the government wants to push through. >> do you have any thoughts about that? because that passed this week, didn't it? >> there must be >> i, i think he's there must be some truth in that because from what i understand of the online safety and i'm ashamed to safety bill and i'm ashamed to say really had the say i haven't really had the time into it and suddenly time to dig into it and suddenly i find it's just waiting for i find it's law just waiting for royal assent is what it seems to be shoving all be doing is shoving all accountability off to ofcom. >> ofcom will decide who they investigate and who they find and this is terrifying because this comes from a political culture where, as we know, hate is given such broad and is given such a broad and a woolly meaning that really anybody who offends somebody can said to be hateful. so that's when it starts getting really worrying. when mps are writing

letters that people who letters asking that people who haven't even been charged , let haven't even been charged, let alone convicted of anything , are alone convicted of anything, are to be demonetised and we should emphasise these are allegations at this point strenuously denied allegations . allegations. >> and the way people are talking online, though, is as though they've made a decision already minds. already in their minds. >> like you cannot >> well, it's like you cannot now disbelieve a woman who complains offending complains about sexual offending from because that is from a man because that is apologising for rape. i can understand why people feel so strongly women haven't strongly because women haven't been still we been listened to. and still we see convictions are so see rape convictions are so tiny, it's almost as if rape has been decriminalised. but 99% of women are raped this year women who are raped this year are not going to have a dispatches crew them dispatches crew following them about. tell women about. i think to tell women this only way you can this is the only way you can achieve justice by appealing to mob is utterly mob rule is utterly irresponsible because most women are not raped by minor tv celebrities they won't get celebrities and they won't get that of coverage. so that kind of coverage. so i think we've got to look at why is the criminal justice system so distrusted , so ineffective is the criminal justice system so dtry usted , so ineffective is the criminal justice system so dtry andd , so ineffective is the criminal justice system so dtry and do so ineffective is the criminal justice system so dtry and do somethingve is the criminal justice system so dtry and do something about and try and do something about that, not usher in mob rule. we will suffer from that .

will all suffer from that. >> thanks so >> sarah phillimore, thanks so much . and coming much forjoining me. and coming up on free speech nation, should rishi sunak have backed down on net zero plans? we're going to have a debate shortly from the leaders of the climate party and fair fuel uk. don't go anywhere

radio. >> welcome back to free speech nation. later in the show, i'll be turning agony uncle with the help of my panel, paul cox and cressida wetton. and we're going to help you deal with your unfiltered dilemma. if you've unfiltered dilemma. so if you've got problems email got any problems at all, email us gbviews@gbnews.uk . com and us at gbviews@gbnews.uk. com and we'll do our best to answer your problems . so we'll do our best to answer your problems. so the prime minister appears to have listened to the masses this week and announced a revised set of green policies, including the pushing back of the ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars by five years. rishi sunak says the original

goals to reach net zero emissions would impose unacceptable costs on hard pressed british families , but pressed british families, but also insists the uk can still meet climate targets. many experts disagree. so is this the right way to go in the current economic climate, or should we be putting the environment above all to battle all else? well, here to battle it out is leader of climate it out is leader of the climate party ed gemmell and founder of fair fuel uk, howard cox . thank fair fuel uk, howard cox. thank can i come to you first about this? >> so is rishi sunak right that this the net zero plans would have disproportionately impacted the poorer in society ? the poorer in society? >> i don't think he's right on that, but i think he's utterly, completely missed the point. what people in britain want is they industrial strategy they want an industrial strategy that's going us of that's going to get us out of the living get the cost of living crisis, get rid inflation, having rid of inflation, see us having money our social money to invest in our social services, our nhs and everything else consideration, he's else from my consideration, he's no longer rishi sunak. he's a rishi he's sunk rishi sunak. he's sunk everything doing. everything he's doing. it's pathetic, gutless and without ambition . what he should have ambition. what he should have doneis ambition. what he should have done is he have gripped done is he should have gripped the should have the moment and we should have got it. should

got forward on it. we should have forward have brought forward our industrial . 149 industrial strategy. 149 countries of the world have set net zero targets. we don't have to agree with it just is to agree with that. it just is a reality. and if we want to get out there and play, we need to bnng out there and play, we need to bring forward and bring our targets forward and get serious, invest in this and see leading this new see britain leading this new clean industrial revolution, making money for britain rather than away what little than giving away what little advantage had. advantage we had. >> howard , you any >> okay, howard, do you have any thoughts >> okay, howard, do you have any tho very; >> okay, howard, do you have any tho very much i the >> very much so. and i love the fact you actually think about industry, because the problem with the in with industry at the moment in time haven't time is they haven't been thought and i rishi thought about and i give rishi sunak like or 7 out sunak something like 6 or 7 out of tend to agree you of ten, i tend to agree with you that he's actually ducked the real idea. you noticed real idea. and have you noticed there's year? there's an election next year? yeah there's, know, yeah and there's, you know, there's 37 million uk drivers in this country and they all vote yes. and i'm afraid something like 93, at least 93% drive diesel or petrol cars. yes. well we've we've seen the backlash with as well and the sort with ulez as well and the sort of the vandalism cameras and of the vandalism of cameras and this thing. this kind of thing. >> these net zero >> it's these these net zero policies aren't necessarily popular everyone, popular with everyone, but they're whatsoever they're not popular whatsoever. >> clean >> everyone wants a clean planet. wants to

planet. everyone wants to breathe air. we want breathe clean air. we all want that. you do it by that. but you don't do it by hitting pocket. hitting people in the pocket. and happening and that's what's happening with this the we've got this at the moment. we've got a budget in two months budget coming up in two months time, i'm hearing that time, and i'm hearing that jeremy putting jeremy hunt might be putting fuel up all to actually fuel duty up all to actually placate the green side argument. >> a reality , ed, >> so is this a reality, ed, that comes to being that when it comes to being re—elected, think that when it comes to being re-money d, think that when it comes to being re-money most think that when it comes to being re-money most of think that when it comes to being re-money most of all. think that when it comes to being re-money most of all. that's1ink of money most of all. that's what people are voting for. they want better don't they? >> well, ml wnenln they? >> well, when you're >> well, i think when you're talking and talking about election and electioneering, i mean, howard's absolutely was absolutely right. look, this was gutless self serving and selfish . it wasn't doing anything for our country at all. howard and i may disagree on the car part, but don't think we disagree but i don't think we disagree on that say it's that bit of it. you say it's cowardly, it isn't he cowardly, but isn't it isn't he responding to concerns of the electorate? don't think responding to concerns of the electresponding don't think responding to concerns of the elect responding to on't think responding to concerns of the elect responding to on't real< he's responding to the real concerns the electorate. he's responding to the real concetos the electorate. he's responding to the real conceto say, the electorate. he's responding to the real conceto say, the ethere ate. have to say, yes, there are a lot of car drivers, but there's also 82% of people wanting action zero. but more action on net zero. but more than that, think that's a second, howard? i don't know more than that. more than that. 82. >> time, please. one at >> one at a time, please. one at a time. >> ipsos mori poll. more >> ipsos mori poll. but more than wants money than that, everybody wants money to in our services. and to invest in our services. and the only way we do it is by increasing our industrial

capacity. howard capacity. exactly as howard said, since 1970 we have said, look, since 1970 we have about 30% of our gdp was created from manufacture and that's dropped to under 10. we're dropped to under 10. today we're moving down rapidly down the scale of those that do have a trade deficit been trade deficit that's been running import running on goods that we import and 1983. it's and export since 1983. it's costing us money all the time. we don't have anybody here with a proper strategy to move this country out of it. and we're looking the most obvious looking at the most obvious economic reality everyone is economic reality is everyone is going to net zero, whether they going to net zero, whether they go 20, 30, 2050, 20, 70, 2060, like chinese, they're going there. and the chinese have stolen a march there ahead of us. on manufacturing . everything us. on manufacturing. everything they're pouring out the evs, they're pouring out the evs, they're in control, building coalin they're in control, building coal in control of. but yes, i'm not saying they're doing it right. that's a different thing. howard. agree that maybe howard. we can agree that maybe they're the wrong way, they're doing it the wrong way, but doing but what they're doing is gripping it, grabbing it, and they're leading this new industrial look, they're leading this new indust got look, they're leading this new industgot heritage. look, they're leading this new industgot heritage. wenok, they're leading this new industgot heritage. we started we've got heritage. we started the original industrial revolution . we can lead revolution. we can lead this one. just go for one. we've just got to go for it. howard is it true we're it. howard is it true that we're just off inevitable? just putting off the inevitable? i i mean, i don't think we are. i mean, he's moved 20, 20, 35. yes

he's moved 20, 30 to 20, 35. yes to fall in line with europe . to fall in line with europe. right. why? boris got up one morning and said, i think i'll make it 2030. you know, he obviously had a hangover or something that. the simple something like that. the simple thing the moment, all of thing is at the moment, all of what saying is what you're saying is undemocratic . i what you're saying is undemocratic. i didn't for undemocratic. i didn't vote for this. and ask the audience this. and i can ask the audience here, you vote this? no here, did you vote for this? no that's undemocratic that's right. it's undemocratic to want an industrial strategy that money for britain, that makes money for britain, which you you're which bit you about. you're a bit about 80 odd% of people ipsis the net zero, the 100 and whatever countries and all that sort of thing. i don't think anyone's voted for this yet. we all want clean but do all want clean air, but let's do it let's it together and let's incentivise industrialise wise clean fuel technology. it doesn't have electric doesn't have to be electric vehicles not vehicles because they're not as green think from out of green as you think from out of the lithium taken out of the of the lithium taken out of the of the ores in the countries all the ores in the countries all the way to disposal and getting rid of the battery, they're not that much cheaper. >> i mean you mentioned that no one voted for this. in your view , do you feel has been a , do you feel there has been a lack clarity generally when lack of clarity generally when it comes to politicians making pledges for subsequent elections when pledges for subsequent elections wheabsolutely right. and one of

>> absolutely right. and one of the ones local the biggest ones is a local election. you sadiq khan election. you know, sadiq khan here had a public here in london, he had a public consultation out of consultation with two out of three not want three people, did not want the ulez but he's still ulez extension, but he's still going ahead with it. our politicians are lying to us, except comes up to except when it comes up to an election. need honesty please election. we need honesty please from. and that's one good thing he he said we've got to he did say. he said we've got to be honest with the electorate. i i for that. that's i thank him for that. and that's why him 6 or 7 out of why i give him 6 or 7 out of ten. but isn't the reality that we address these we do have to address these environmental concerns? >> they're not going anywhere, are i don't >> yeah, but i don't believe there's change crisis. there's a climate change crisis. there's can can happening. can we can we rephrase i mean, rephrase this? i mean, we're looking you keep saying looking at it. you keep saying we're these these we're addressing these these concerns. where this altruism. where is this altruism? i have to do it altruism? why do i have to do it for the world? got to do altruism? why do i have to do it fo forie world? got to do altruism? why do i have to do it fo for us. orld? got to do altruism? why do i have to do it fo for us. and’ got to do altruism? why do i have to do it fofor us. and i'm got to do altruism? why do i have to do it fofor us. and i'm even» do it for us. and i'm not even talking about children's talking about for our children's futures. it's going to make money. the world is going money. look, the world is going there, sake. it's there, for goodness sake. it's so obvious. and i was in the election in uxbridge and i was on street talking people election in uxbridge and i was oand street talking people election in uxbridge and i was oand whennt talking people election in uxbridge and i was oand when you king people election in uxbridge and i was oand when you put| people election in uxbridge and i was oand when you put it people election in uxbridge and i was oand when you put it to neople election in uxbridge and i was oand when you put it to the le election in uxbridge and i was oand when you put it to the man . and when you put it to the man on street, the 40 years on the street, the 40 years we've offshored of we've offshored all of our industry, anything industry, we don't make anything here. have here. that's why we don't have any in anything any money to invest in anything anymore. got to an

anymore. we've got to get an industrial that's industrial strategy that's clear, that's obvious, that's moving is moving us forward and this is quite world quite clearly where the world is going. or not, going. like it or not, democratic or not, they're going they're 92% of the world's gdp is controlled by those countries that on these that have taken on these targets. it's going there. we can behind we can be left behind as we are now, 2035 weakening on the now, the 2035 weakening on the car target isn't the biggest now, the 2035 weakening on the car tainzt isn't the biggest now, the 2035 weakening on the car tain the n't the biggest now, the 2035 weakening on the car tain the world, biggest now, the 2035 weakening on the car tain the world, butjest now, the 2035 weakening on the car tain the world, but in.t thing in the world, but in actual fact, it shows the problem of intent. we have had flip politicians. flip flopping politicians. you've sunak you've given up. rishi sunak gone back on it. he's now moved it to 2035. what next is he going to do? and it won't just be on net zero, it'll be on other things. we won't have an industrial can't other things. we won't have an indlthe al can't other things. we won't have an indlthe investment. can't other things. we won't have an indlthe investment. thean't other things. we won't have an indlthe investment. the city get the investment. the city will ground. already will lose ground. it already is. whereas move our whereas if we move forward, our target this target get serious. this government the city government is serious. the city gets ahead, invests in it, puts the money we can benefit. >> let's have howard come in and respond to that. >> at this point, i find >> now, at this point, i find your monologue is very passionate. >> everything you said, it >> everything you said, but it doesn't have to be for electric vehicles. be. vehicles. it doesn't have to be. we to have edicts 20, we don't have to have edicts 20, 35 or a 2050 target. let's work together in industrial sense and but bring the people with us to get clean fuel

get through with clean fuel technology . i'm just talking technology. i'm not just talking about i'm about petrol and diesel. i'm talking believe in talking about gas. i believe in fracking those of fracking and all those sorts of things do this things as well. let's do this together. cheaper energy together. we need cheaper energy . cheaper you get, . the cheaper energy you get, the prosperous every the more prosperous every economy right. can i you economy is, right. can i ask you , then? okay. going away , howard, then? okay. going away just pet which just from your pet topic, which is cars . and let's talk is clearly cars. and let's talk about general economy what about the general economy. what is britain ? is your mission for britain? what actually take us what would actually take us forward ? what's going drive forward? what's going to drive us from 10 to 10% terms of us from 10 to 10% in terms of industry contribution to gdp, back to 25 or 30? what have back up to 25 or 30? what have you got in your bag you got in your in your bag that's get us there? that's going to get us there? well my bag, as i've well what's in my bag, as i've always said, and i've been campaigning low campaigning for 14 years on low taxation, money into taxation, i put more money into people's them people's pockets and allow them to spend it . i to choose where they spend it. i think all agree on that, think we'd all agree on that, wouldn't think we'd all agree on that, wotyes,t think we'd all agree on that, wotyes, but mean, to some >> yes, but i mean, to some extent, though, to extent, though, we've got to earn the money, we? earn the money, haven't we? >> all >> so we've got to have it all you're talking about. you're talking taking, paying, you're talking about. you're talkingfrom taking, paying, you're talking about. you're talkingfrom peterng, paying, you're talking about. you're talkingfrom peterng,pay ing, you're talking about. you're talkingfrom peterng,pay paul. you're talking about. you're talki are om peterng,pay paul. you're talking about. you're talki are om igoing g,pay paul. you're talking about. you're talki are om igoing toway paul. you're talking about. you're talki are om igoing to what|ul. how are you going to what your industrial take industrial strategy to take britain out the doldrums to britain out of the doldrums to put us on front, to give us put us on the front, to give us ambition what is your strategy? ambition? what is your strategy? net zero is an obvious direction. better direction. is there a better one? i'm sorry, you're

one? well, i'm sorry, you're trying actually distort what trying to actually distort what i'm . i'm telling you now i'm saying. i'm telling you now that country, sitting on that in this country, sitting on incredible energy reserves , incredible energy reserves, we've people here, we've got people over here, i believe , in electric vehicles. believe, in electric vehicles. we that. but they we can invest in that. but they shouldn't get a free ride with no taxation getting ban no taxation and getting a ban that actually gives them unfair things over the competition. i don't believe in those sorts of things. what we need to do is work together to and i repeat, people like you and i should be talking on same hymn sheet, talking on the same hymn sheet, proverbial and saying proverbial hymn sheet and saying how we will actually work together for clean fuel technology. get that right. we'll have money pouring in it. >> doesn't that appeal to you, ed, the i totally agree with the last there's point last bit, so there's no point saying that. >> right. howard, on >> absolutely right. howard, on that. but what i do here is we're the fact we're coming back to the fact that the problem we're coming back to the fact that most the problem we're coming back to the fact that most of the problem we're coming back to the fact that most of ourhe problem we're coming back to the fact that most of our politicians, with most of our politicians, they proper they don't have a proper macro strategy. then they strategy. i agree. and then they drop details. and drop back down to details. and we on the details. drop back down to details. and wefact, on the details. drop back down to details. and wefact, i on the details. drop back down to details. and wefact, i don't on the details. drop back down to details. and wefact, i don't thinkthe details. drop back down to details. and wefact, i don't think we details. in fact, i don't think we disagree on what disagree particularly on what you said. need you just said. now, we do need to in every to invest in energy in every single my single format. from my perspective, be perspective, it's got to be clean be clean energy. we should be investing in everything and we should targets should be bringing our targets forward that

forward so that we get that momentum, investment momentum, get the investment into our into it, that we make our environmental eco tech, tech companies generally innovative. we one we should be forced into one direction. should the direction. should we? that's the problem getting. we're problem we're getting. we're saying electric saying only buy electric vehicles . vehicles. >> that's it. ed, can i just ask you, though, your concern is very much with the development of you of an industrial strategy so you don't share the concern of activists this is about activists who say this is about climate disaster, incoming impending climate disaster, incoming imfso ding climate disaster, incoming imfso , ng climate disaster, incoming imfso , look, i'm not going to >> so, look, i'm not going to stick myself to the road and block traffic and i'm not going to put a drain prime to put a drain on the prime minister's house. okay? that's why i lead political party and why i lead a political party and that's why we do what do . that's why we do what we do. yes. here to yes. but we're mainly here to say , whatever all say, look, whatever we all believe on the science and whether people here agree whether people here all agree with me on the science or not is irrelevant. is a irrelevant. but this is a massive opportunity. and china is raking it in at the moment. and we're paying them well. >> we don't we don't much >> we don't we don't have much time, ed, so i do have to give the final word to howard, if that's word to that's all right. final word to you, it's very >> well, i'm saying it's very simple. the simple. let's listen to the people. put more money into their really their pockets and let's really frack i'm serious

frack away and let's i'm serious . we've got to get aggressive. no, no , no. i'm sorry. we've got no, no, no. i'm sorry. we've got to do this. we've got to reduce the cost of our energy. this country. become more country. we've become more competitive . and to get competitive. and i'd like to get to situation where we export to a situation where we export the rather than import to a situation where we export the gas rather than import to a situation where we export the gas .ather than import the gas. >> i wish we had time. >> i wish we had time. >> our gas. >> 80% of our gas. >> 80% of our gas. >> wish we had a time to go >> i wish we had a time to go into debate. into the whole fracking debate. we at the we don't have that at the moment, edgar howard moment, but edgar and howard cox, much cox, thank you both so much for coming cox, thank you both so much for comi really appreciate. and >> i really appreciate. and still to come on free speech nation, be speaking nation, we'll be speaking to a women's writer who women's health writer who has been for using the word been censored for using the word woman when she was asked to contribute expert quotes to an article menstruation in article on menstruation in first, let's get your latest . weather >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers, proud sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello there. welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. i'm craig snell. well, looking ahead to the week ahead, it is certainly going to remain unsettled , especially middle of unsettled, especially middle of the potentially turn the week, potentially turn very windy some of back to the windy for some of us back to the here now. and have

here and now. and we have got low pressure, dominating here and now. and we have got low atlantic., dominating here and now. and we have got low atlantic. that's dominating here and now. and we have got lowatlantic. that's going minating here and now. and we have got lowatlantic. that's going to nating the atlantic. that's going to bnngin the atlantic. that's going to bring in bands of rain as we go through the next 24 hours. and note that the tightly packed isobars indicating it's going to note that the tightly packed isovery indicating it's going to note that the tightly packed isovery indicatiso it's going to note that the tightly packed isovery indicatiso here'sing to note that the tightly packed iso very indicatiso here's the to be very windy. so here's the situation end sunday got a situation as we end sunday got a band of rain spreading its way across the country. heavy across the country. some heavy pulses it's going to pulses on it. and it's going to be fairly windy night, be a fairly windy night, especially across the northern half of the country, turning a little bit drier and clearer across end the across the south as we end the night. and all of us, it's night. and for all of us, it's going a fairly mild one. going to be a fairly mild one. temperatures in double temperatures staying in double figures. monday off figures. so we start monday off on fairly sunny note across on a fairly sunny note across many of england and wales. many parts of england and wales. still some overnight still maybe some overnight rain to across the very to contend with across the very far and really the far southeast. and really the day be a mixture of day is going to be a mixture of sunshine and scattered showers. the focussed the showers mainly focussed across northern of across more northern parts of the country , could see the country, could see some heavy for scotland and heavy showers for scotland and northern ireland, too, and quite a especially again a breezy day, especially again in the north. that may temper the temperatures somewhat up here, but towards the here, but down towards the south—east warm. south—east feeling quite warm. highs 23 tuesday , highs of 23 degrees tuesday, another day of sunny spells and scattered showers could see some heavy showers. initially across

the east. then later on, the east. and then later on, this more organised band of rain spread going from the west as spread going in from the west as we go through the course of the day that up for day. and that sets us up for a very windy middle part of the week. watch out for wednesday. warnings force for the warnings are in force for the north west . north and west. >> looks like things are heating up for boxt boilers proud sponsors of weather on gb news as

>> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle a women's health author says some expert quotations she contributed to an article about menstruation have been censored because she used the word woman. well millie hill joins me now. millie, welcome to the show. so can i ask you what happened here? what were you asked to do ? >> well, 7 >> well, because ? >> well, because i've 7 >> well, because i've written a

book for young people, for girls about periods, and i was asked over the summer if i would give some what they call kind of expert quotes for the article. so just, you know, a few things in my own words to help the journalist out. and she would then payment then there was no payment involved. but she would then quote and, you know, give my quote me and, you know, give my book a plug, basically. so that's what i did. >> now, this was a website that was sponsored by always who create sanitary pads, obviously . so you would have thought that the word woman would naturally come up in this kind of article. yes >> well, yes. i mean, obviously it's an article about periods, but i mean, i'm well used. you know, i actually keep quite a close eye on what's happening with the erasure of women from language. so it wasn't an unusual thing for me to anticipate that there might be some gender neutral language used in the article. but what was shocking was that they made my gender neutral without my words gender neutral without my words gender neutral without my consent . my words gender neutral without my consent. in my words gender neutral without my consent . in fact, it was my consent. in fact, it was against my specific consent. so i'd actually spoken to them

about this issue and because i'd noficed about this issue and because i'd noticed another article that they'd done, which was also sponsored by always, and the website is called good to know, by they've done another by the way, they've done another article also sponsored by always about talking to people about talking to young people about talking to young people about they taken all about periods and they taken all mention and girls out mention of women and girls out of it. so i said to them, i don't mind being involved in your article, but i don't want your article, but i don't want you erase , you know, sex from you to erase, you know, sex from my words. and yet they still went ahead and did it. >> so they did this without your consent, without you consent, without letting you know not realise? know, do they not realise? >> particularly you've >> and particularly when you've got always who are got a group like always who are sponsoring this, are they not troubled what they're troubled that what they're effectively doing here is insulting customer base ? insulting their customer base? >> yeah , it's strange. it's hard >> yeah, it's strange. it's hard to understand , but it seems to to understand, but it seems to be so widespread. i mean , that's be so widespread. i mean, that's the important point, i think, is that this wasn't an isolated for me. this isn't an isolated incident at all. it's quite unusual for to be placed so unusual for me to be placed so right in the middle of it, because normally i'm watching other doing then other people doing it. and then it actually to my own it actually happened to my own words. but every website about

menstruation and periods , loads menstruation and periods, loads of the websites about birth , of the websites about birth, loads articles and content on loads of articles and content on the topic of women's health, have the language changed like this so standard , but this now it's so standard, but it doesn't seem to happen to men i >> -- >> they don't start talking about men as prostate harbours and that kind of thing . why do and that kind of thing. why do you this is so clearly you think this is so clearly targeted women ? targeted towards women? >> because i'm afraid to say i think this is a men's rights movement. what's wanted here is the is they want it to be possible for men to be women . possible for men to be women. and in order for that to be possible , you have to detach the possible, you have to detach the concept of female biology from the concept of women. and in order to do that, you have to work linguistically, linguistically, and you have to target these specific areas which to female biology which belong to female biology like periods , like childbirth, like periods, like childbirth, like periods, like childbirth, like even menopause. and once you've done that, once you've got people like me to admit, oh, all of this female biology has actually got nothing to do with being a woman. and you're laying the path open for self—id for

men to say, i'm a woman because you've removed that barrier, that complex , and it must that very complex, and it must be quite frustrating barrier for men who want to be women , you men who want to be women, you know, because that's the one thing do . so they thing they can't do. so they have linguistically least have to linguistically at least try to uncouple those two concepts of women and female biology. i think that it's biology. so i think that it's very deliberate and i think it's there's a very it's obvious that it's happening because it's only happening women's language. it's happening because it's only hapobvious women's language. it's happening because it's only hapobvious that men's language. it's happening because it's only hapobvious that men islanguage. it's happening because it's only hapobvious that men is aboutige. it's obvious that this is about men's rights to identify as women and, and biology is the barrier to that . barrier to that. >> well, meanwhile , i'm afraid >> well, meanwhile, i'm afraid that's all we've got time for. but thank you for speaking out on this, because i it's on this, because i think it's a very issue. so much very important issue. so much appreciated. thanks for having me so that is the end of the first hour of free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. but please don't go anywhere because we've got an awful lot to come please don't go anywhere because we've go now awful lot to come please don't go anywhere because we've gonow andrl lot to come please don't go anywhere because we've gonow and 9:00.:o come please don't go anywhere because we've gonow and 9:00. we'll|e please don't go anywhere because we've gonow and 9:00. we'll be between now and 9:00. we'll be talking about the online safety bill and we'll be getting more questions from our lovely audience. but first, how's that weather looking in the

temperature's rising, but first, solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello there. welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. i'm craig snell. well, looking ahead to the week ahead, it is certainly going to remain unsettled, especially middle of the turn very the week, potentially turn very windy for some us. back to windy for some of us. back to the and now and have got the here and now and we have got low generally dominate low pressure generally dominate in going to in the atlantic that's going to bnng in the atlantic that's going to bring of rain as we go bring in bands of rain as we go through the next 24 hours. and note tightly packed note that the tightly packed isobars it's to isobars indicating it's going to be very windy. so here's the situation . and we sunday, situation. and as we end sunday, got of spreading got a band of rain spreading its way country . some way across the country. some heavy pulses it it's heavy pulses on it and it's going to be a fairly windy night, especially the night, especially across the northern half the country, northern half of the country, turning drier and turning a little bit drier and clearer the south as we clearer across the south as we end the night. and for all of us, a fairly us, it's going to be a fairly mild temperatures staying mild one. temperatures staying in double figures. so start in double figures. so we start monday off on a fairly sunny note across many parts of england wales. note across many parts of england wales . still maybe england and wales. still maybe some to contend some overnight rain to contend with across the very far southeast . and the is

southeast. and really the day is going mixture of going to be a mixture of sunshine scattered showers. sunshine and scattered showers. the focussed the showers mainly focussed across northern parts of across more northern parts of the could see some the country, could see some heavy showers for and heavy showers for scotland and too . northern ireland and quite too. northern ireland and quite a day, especially again a breezy day, especially again in the north. may temper in the north. that may temper the somewhat the temperatures somewhat up here, the here, but down towards the south—east feeling quite warm. highs tuesday. highs of 23 degrees tuesday. another day of sunny spells and scattered showers could see some heavy showers. initially across the east. and then later this the east. and then later on this more rain more organised band of rain spreading in from the west. as we go through the course of the day . and that sets us up for day. and that sets us up for a very windy middle part of the week. watch out for wednesday. warnings are force for warnings are in force for the north . north and west. >> the temperatures rising . boxt >> the temperatures rising. boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on

gb news away. >> there's plenty more still to

come on free speech nation tonight. this brilliant studio audience will shortly have more questions for myself and my panel questions for myself and my panel. paul cox and cressida wetton. but first, let's get a news update from tatiana sanchez i >> andrew, thank you and good evening. this is the latest military personnel who could be drafted in to cover for metropolitan police firearms officers after dozens are thought to have withdrawn from armed duty . the protest is thought to have withdrawn from armed duty. the protest is in response to a colleague being charged with the murder of chris kaba. suella bravermans ordered a review into the situation. 24 year old kaba was unarmed and died when he was shot in his car in south london last year. former transport secretary grant shapps says it would be irresponsible to keep ploughing money into hs2 plans. the government has failed to deny reports claiming the manchester leg is set to be scrapped. the east midlands parkway line is also under threat , but the

also under threat, but the sunday telegraph claims the potential cost of the high speed . rail scheme has increased by £8 billion. the cuts could be made before the tory party conference in manchester next month . downing street has sought month. downing street has sought to play down reports the prime minister is drawing up plans to slash inheritance tax. the sunday claims rishi sunak sunday times claims rishi sunak is reducing the is considering reducing the current the budget current rate in the budget in march, a warning march, despite a warning by chancellor jeremy he would chancellorjeremy hunt. he would have for tax cuts, have no headroom for tax cuts, death duties charged 40. but the vast majority of estates fall below the threshold. so married couples can pass on £1 million to their kids without being taxed . the liberal democrats are taxed. the liberal democrats are calling on the government to triple tax for social media firms to fund having a mental health worker for all schools in england. the proposal would see the digital services levy raised from 2 to 6% of company revenues . deputy leader daisy cooper told her party conference

earlier today that mental health has dropped off the political radar . she has dropped off the political radar. she introduced a wider package of proposals , including package of proposals, including regular check ups on the nhs. for those at risk . and nasa has for those at risk. and nasa has successfully landed the largest asteroid sample ever collected back on earth. the specimen is a remnant of our early solar system, which scientists believe can shed light on how the planets formed and life on our planets formed and life on our planet began, which is estimated to be 4.5 million years old. it was checked for any damage and wrapped in thermal blanketing before being recovered by helicopter using a cargo . net helicopter using a cargo. net this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car , on digital radio tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by simply saying play gb news now it's back to free speech nation

i >> welcome back to free speech nation. >> with me, andrew doyle. so we've got this beautiful studio audience . it would be a shame to audience. it would be a shame to see them go to waste. and i mean that, more that, you know, much more attractive weeks. attractive than previous weeks. let's get some questions. so our first is from abs. first question is from abs. where's ? hello. where's abs? hello. hi. >> my question is, what is >> yes, my question is, what is it about men and the roman empire ? empire? >> yeah, i love this story that all these videos that were circulating this week on social media, women across the world are saying, why? why is the roman empire such an obsession for this why is it, do you for men? this why is it, do you think i mean, i'm a bit obsessed i >>i -- >> i know. lam >> i know. well, because i thought of you when i heard this. exactly. not a week goes by when you don't discuss rome with our producer, richard. it's your favourite rome. >> yeah, exactly. >> yeah, exactly. >> might be the wrong >> i mean, i might be the wrong person the panel to but person on the panel to ask, but is because it's the fantasy is it because it's the fantasy escape ? it's very hyper escape? it's very hyper masculine. and you're all about the hyper masculinity. >> well, i've often said it. >> well, i've often said it. >> andrew well, it's, i think men generally are the abs.

>> are you into roman empire? are you interested? not no, not. okay. well, maybe it's just me. is it? i mean, there is something about it does appeal, doesn't do with the doesn't it? is it to do with the masculine quality of, of . masculine quality of, of. >> well, as a spokesperson >> well, as a as a spokesperson for alpha male. yeah. for the alpha male. andrew yeah. yeah i don't think i do. you know what i read the article and i reading article i started reading the article and i don't think about and think, i don't think about the and then they the romans at all. and then they mentioned things like straight roads and viaducts. and i thought, in things. exactly >> favourite emperor . >> favourite roman emperor. >> favourite roman emperor. >> have one. right. >> i don't have one. right. juua >> i don't have one. right. julia sees her. >> wasn't a roman emperor. yeah. >> i don't know anything about roman caesar. yeah, just made it up. julius caesar. i did that for rigid woman stuck in the back for . so i was saying that back for. so i was saying that as a joke . and now i just feel as a joke. and now i just feel like the whole nation believes . like the whole nation believes. i think that julius caesar is an actual person . yeah, and she was actual person. yeah, and she was actually. she shouldn't be forgotten. don't think. you don't think julia >> you don't think of julia domna . i'm >> you don't think of julia domna. i'm thank >> you don't think of julia domna . i'm thank you. >> you don't think of julia domna .i'm i'm thank you. >> you don't think of julia domna .i'm not. thank you. >> you don't think of julia domna .i'm not. i thank you. >> you don't think of julia domna .i'm not. i know|ank you. >> you don't think of julia domna .i'm not. i know veryyou. >> and i'm not. i know very little about it other than viaducts roads. and viaducts and straight roads. and those were the those were the words remember associated words i can remember associated to rome. words i can remember associated to ithere's something appealing

words i can remember associated to ithereand mething appealing words i can remember associated to ithereand methingthinkzaling words i can remember associated to ithereand methingthink youg about it. and i don't think you see, this article about it. and i don't think you see, this this article about it. and i don't think you see, this this this article about it. and i don't think you see, this this theseis article about it. and i don't think you see, this this these videos. a about this this these videos. it's nostalgia because it's not about nostalgia because the had a terrible louis schaefer. >> isn't that no no, but >> isn't that old? no no, but no, but i mean, they say you're harking back ancient , harking back to an ancient, perfect society. >> romans absolutely >> the romans had absolutely terrible morals. you know, the life expectancy of your average emperor nothing emperor was basically nothing because constantly be killing because it constantly be killing each or each other, you know, or sleeping with their mothers and their generates a lot their sisters generates a lot of testosterone, doesn't it? >> achievement and doing >> lots of achievement and doing stuff being out there and stuff and being out there and whatever you're into. >> who's your favourite emperor ? >> 7. >>i 7_ >> i haven't ? >> i haven't even seen 7 >> i haven't even seen that film with the australian chap because i'm worried it's going to be too violent for me . which film is violent for me. which film is this gladiator ? the gladiator. this gladiator? the gladiator. gladiator. the australian chap. that's right, isn't it? i think. >> well, the emperor in that is commodus and commodus was one of the worst emperors. absolutely right. one of the most hideous. i thought i did see caligula once, years and regretted once, years ago and regretted regretted that. >> so anyway. it's not >> so anyway. yeah, it's not it's horrible film , isn't it? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> it's really grim. caligula, you the caligula. that

>> it's really grim. caligula, you not the caligula. that >> it's really grim. caligula, you not trname. caligula. that >> it's really grim. caligula, you not trname. caligula a. that >> it's really grim. caligula, you not trname. caligula means was not his name. caligula means little boots. really cute, isn't it? it's like nickname. little boots. really cute, isn't it? it'slike nickname. little boots. really cute, isn't it? it's quite. nickname. >> it's quite. >> it's quite. >> he's quite cute. >> he's quite cute. >> wasn't cute. no, >> but he wasn't cute. no, he wasn't cute at all. from incest. yeah >> murder and stuff. >> murder and stuff. >> he liked all that, didn't he? >> murder and stuff. >> he didd all that, didn't he? >> he did. >> he did. >> he did. >> he a bit of incest. >> he loved a bit of incest. anyway, let's move on before it gets dark. got gets too dark. we've got a question luca. where's question from luca. where's luca? luca. luca? hi luca. >> question is, are our >> my question is, are our police paid to dance with drag queens ? queens? >> yeah, well, we keep seeing these videos of police dancing with drag queens and humberside police . police. >> they've now banned their officers from wearing glitter and face paint at pride events . and face paint at pride events. and this comes after suella braverman , who said that she braverman, who said that she used the phrase, she said, officers aren't paid to dance with drag queens . technically, with drag queens. technically, she's wrong . she's wrong. >> exactly. technically, she's wrong. i mean, i have to say, i get a bit annoyed about all of this, you know, because when you see the police sort of in their sort colours, dancing, sort of pride colours, dancing, the macarena and stuff, i just keep crime , you keep thinking knife crime, you know, sort that out. >> you're starting to feel

tempted yourself. >> what's been it. >> what's been gauge in it. >> what's been gauge in it. >> just think, know, >> no i just think, you know, solve crimes. then solve the crimes. come on then do macarena . do the macarena. >> i think they've got it the wrong way round. >> i completely agree. then wrong way round. >> couldiletely agree. then wrong way round. >> could use ly agree. then wrong way round. >> could use the gree. then wrong way round. >> could use the macarenathen wrong way round. >> could use the macarena inen you could use the macarena in celebration celebration celebration as a celebration when solved the when they've solved all the crimes all crimes. when they've solved all the crirthen all crimes. when they've solved all the crirthen you crimes. when they've solved all the crirthen you can rimes. when they've solved all the crirthen you can dance much as >> then you can dance as much as you do anything. you want. you can do anything. pump jam technotronic you want. you can do anything. pi mp jam technotronic you want. you can do anything. pi have jam technotronic you want. you can do anything. pi have no jam technotronic you want. you can do anything. pi have no super technotronic you want. you can do anything. pi have no super preference.ronic . i have no super preference. well, wonderful track . well, it's a wonderful track. >> it is a wonderful track. >> it is a wonderful track. >> follow up better. >> their follow up was better. >> their follow up was better. >> called up the >> it's called get up before the night over. night is over. >> i know will. >> i don't know that i will. i'll be listening to on the way home. would see home. yeah, i would love to see a sweeney in this a remake of the sweeney in this sort era where the sort of modern era where the sweeney go around dressed as sweeney go around dressed up as drag and. beating up drag queens and. and beating up geezers. oh the sweeney did. >> the other problem with this, of course, is that it is the progress pride flag, you know, the ugly new pride flag, the really ugly new pride flag, which on it. which is all that rubbish on it. that seen by a lot which is all that rubbish on it. th gay seen by a lot which is all that rubbish on it. th gay people seen by a lot which is all that rubbish on it. th gay people aseen by a lot which is all that rubbish on it. th gay people as anti by a lot which is all that rubbish on it. th gay people as anti gay. lot which is all that rubbish on it. th gay people as anti gay. at which is all that rubbish on it. th gay people as anti gay. a lot of gay people as anti gay. a lot of gay people as anti gay. a lot of women misogynistic. of women see it as misogynistic. there's these cultural there's all of these cultural issues and debates are issues and debates that are going think the going on that i don't think the police going on that i don't think the poliflying these flags, they're are flying these flags, they're definitely taking a side in the culture wars. >> i don't know. are >> i don't know. they are ehhen >> i don't know. they are either. and either. they don't know. and

that's . you know, that's the trouble. you know, this terrible optics because this is terrible optics because there probably about 50 there are probably only about 50 police people in the world's history they've ever danced to the macarena whilst dressed as a drag queen covered in in glitter. that's the ones we glitter. but that's the ones we remember. it is. and i'm glad you called them police people . you called them police people. well, i've had my training . well, i've had my training. yeah, that's very good. >> would you own more dog >> would you own any more dog incidents ? incidents? >> i don't know what that means i >> genders, dogs, but not genders. dog police. >> thank you for the clarification . clarification. >> so requested a broadly speaking, the police should be policing dancing. policing rather than dancing. >> ideally think. i think. >> ideally i think. i think. yeah ignorance defence yeah and ignorance is no defence saying know which saying oh, they don't know which flag why don't flag it is. well why don't you just use any flags? how just not use any flags? how about that? how about stick to what be? what you're supposed to be? >> okay let's >> very good point. okay let's get this gene get a question from is this gene or ? or gene? >> gene. >> gene. >> gene, where's gene ? hi, gene. >> gene, where's gene? hi, gene. >> gene, where's gene? hi, gene. >> hi . can cpr be sexist? oh, yes. >> so this was a study this week. it's found that women are less likely to be given cpr than men in public places. and this is very much seen because it's

considered creepy or at least i think it's that men feel that they might be open to accusations if because cpr is, of course, is an intimate, extremely intimate, isn't it? >> yes. although it's also entirely legitimate. >> well, saving someone's life , >> well, saving someone's life, i would have thought. >> yeah, i think fair. >> yeah, i think that's fair. i mean, banging on about mean, i've been banging on about this ages, that if we don't this for ages, that if we don't think the consequence of think about the consequence of all hypersensitive all this sort of hypersensitive cavity with with and women cavity with with men and women and this is one of the consequences, isn't it? so you don't blame the men say don't blame the men who say they're going the they're not going to take the risk? i don't, risk? to be honest, no, i don't, because in a busy because if you're in a busy street got option street and you've got the option of or walking who's of helping or walking on, who's going to the difference? going to know the difference? i mean, it's tragic. >> this right, i >> so is this a right, paul? i mean, that mean, is it the case that that you know, when feminists have raised problems raised awareness about problems through like the metoo through things like the metoo movement, are actually movement, there are actually downsides to that. and this is one of course. one of them, of course. >> and i'm going have >> and i'm going to have to start caveats these start putting caveats on these things, because if people are going lives going to lose their lives because ideology, it's because of ideology, it's ridiculous. it's the of ridiculous. it's like the end of humanity. from my perspective. i mean, you've got to check a few

things. you can't just wander up to a woman laying the ground to a woman laying on the ground and start kissing her on the lips trying to lips and saying, i'm trying to save because trust save your life. no because trust me, get you in me, that will get you in trouble. me, that will get you in trotyes, but you i wouldn't i >> yes, but you i wouldn't i wouldn't shy away from it. >> i've done the of the >> i've done the saving of the life part of this equation , but life part of this equation, but i've done safety. sorry first aid training recently . yes. and aid training recently. yes. and i think, you know, once you understand how how you could potentially save someone's life, you shouldn't worried about you shouldn't be worried about that is you that anyway. the danger is you should be kind immune from should be kind of immune from prosecution . and course, by prosecution. and of course, by saying basically we've just saying that basically we've just opened the floodgates, the opened up the floodgates, the floodgates we've all got to be grown ups and be sensible. >> i'm trying to i mean, that should motto. should be our motto. >> just be >> shouldn't it just be sensible, grown sensible, just be grown up? okay well, a question now well, we've got a question now from is margarita? >> hello. hi should the >> hello? hello. hi should the second half of the hs2 rail line be scrapped? >> yeah , this hs2 goes on >> yeah, this hs2 thing goes on and isn't it? it really and on. isn't it? it really does. that's the trouble. it doesn't. that's the point . no, doesn't. that's the point. no, because. a bit of white because. is it a bit of a white elephant? you know, now we're talking about scrapping the

whole second thing. so is it going go any further than going to go any further than archway? oh my god, it's terrible. >> it's when terrible. » n-e >> it's like when you've gone out you've already out and you know, you've already bought too new stuff bought too much new stuff and you get bought too much new stuff and you shoes get bought too much new stuff and you shoes to get bought too much new stuff and you shoes to go get bought too much new stuff and you shoes to go with get bought too much new stuff and you shoes to go with ge dress. some shoes to go with the dress. and you just can't stop, you know? where do you the line? >> well, would mam-- >> well, what would you do? i mean, sunk much, >> well, what would you do? i nmean, sunk much, >> well, what would you do? i nmean, the sunk much, >> well, what would you do? i nmean, the sunk sunk much, >> well, what would you do? i nmean, the sunk cost|k much, >> well, what would you do? i nmean, the sunk cost fallacy, |ch, i mean, the sunk cost fallacy, isn't so much money isn't it? we put so much money into hs2. now they're saying it's the way it's not going to go all the way up leeds. up to leeds. >> well, no, apparently there's going northern going to be furious northern tories, brought tories, which i was brought up by what that by one of them. i know what that feels it's terrifying. feels like. it's terrifying. >> a furious northern tory. >> so tory. » so >> so they are the worst. there's to be consequences there's to going be consequences either way, aren't there? and paul rishi trying out i >> k- k— 5—- >> so what would you do? would you just plough with it? you just plough on with it? >> don't think i would. i >> no, i don't think i would. i think i'd stop. i think stop think i'd stop. i think i'd stop now. i don't think it's appropriate any appropriate to be spending any more money now. >> we've got device device. >> we've got a device device. it's a vehicle that is effectively shaving five minutes off a journey to birmingham . i off a journey to birmingham. i mean, it? exactly mean, isn't that it? exactly that's cost millions. yeah the idea. >> yes . you birmingham, you can >> yes. you birmingham, you can need to get there quicker. you can you can of course boil it down to that . but the bigger

down to that. but the bigger picture is that this was supposed you know, this is supposed you know, this is supposed to be connecting the north the south. the north with the south. the south—east has always had has always where the actions always been where the actions happened. you know, there's happened. and you know, there's big action going on there happened. and you know, there's bigyouion going on there happened. and you know, there's bigyou know.ing on there happened. and you know, there's bigyou know. andrew. there happened. and you know, there's bigyou know. andrew. well,1ere as you know. andrew. well, especially and especially when you live and where a lawn and got where i i've got a lawn and got a lawn. the idea that the idea that i think they should continue, think think continue, i think this i think this this bigger than this i think this is bigger than politics. the idea that this wasn't going cost of wasn't going to cost a lot of money the idea money is ridiculous. the idea that understood that that they understood what the in the first the cost of it in the first place is also ridiculous. this is about for me, this about is about for me, this is about creating something for generations currently don't generations that currently don't exist. so making sure that we have public transport and i don't in a green, don't mean this in a green, fluffy, way . i mean, don't mean this in a green, fluffy, way. i mean, is fluffy, wuffy way. i mean, it is good to have it is good have good to have it is good to have these the, the country connected in a modern way like they do in france and spain. in a modern way like they do in fra|and|nd spain. in a modern way like they do in fra|and|n mean n. in a modern way like they do in fra|and|n mean not just that, you >> and i mean not just that, you know, been endless know, there's been endless pledges in pledges about infrastructure in exactly idea north exactly this idea that the north is you know, they haven't is behind you know, they haven't even wi—fi, have up in even got wi—fi, have they up in the north? >> i wouldn't know, andrew. >> i wouldn't know, andrew. >> i've been >> i don't know. i've been briefly. know. maybe >> i don't know. i've been briefly right. know. maybe >> i don't know. i've been briefly right. maybe> i don't know. i've been briefly right. maybe> i don't know. i've been briefly right. maybe

ror exactly. tomorrow, you're right. maybe this is the ror exactly. yeahwmorrow, >> exactly. yeah >> exactly. yeah >> back to the romans. i can't help it as a man. it's all about the romans . anyway, let's. let's the romans. anyway, let's. let's move on. we got a question from via email now. who's this from? greg. hello greg. greg says, do you mps still not know what a woman is ? okay. this has come woman is? okay. this has come about because there's a new campaign group and it's fronted by sharon davis , the olympic by sharon davis, the olympic swimmer who's a fantastic person, great new book, by the way, called unfair play. do check that out. but this campaign group there intention is to ask all mps the question, what is a woman? and those responses will then be uploaded onune responses will then be uploaded online for the public to see. so that means they'll turn up at, you hustings and those you know, hustings and those kinds of things. ask the question now we keep hearing kinds of things. ask the queridea now we keep hearing kinds of things. ask the queridea that we keep hearing kinds of things. ask the queridea that the keep hearing kinds of things. ask the queridea that the questioning kinds of things. ask the queridea that the question what this idea that the question what is a woman is a gotcha question , don't think it's , right? i don't think it's a gotcha question because all it's doing testing the doing is really testing the honesty of people in power, honesty of the people in power, because everyone knows that everyone knows what a woman is. so you're willing say so if you're not willing to say that, if you're too scared of a

handful of activists, what can we trust you on? >> basically, yeah. great point. great. if somebody he says adult, human, female, that's a it's a shorthand for. >> yeah true truth. >> yeah true truth. >> yeah true truth. >> yeah yeah . >> yeah yeah. >> yeah yeah. >> well are they willing to speak the truth? i mean that's the question here. when you know, keir starmer was asked whether a woman could have a penis and he obfuscated for about a minute like he couldn't answer the question. and the problem that is we all know problem with that is we all know that the answer to that that he knows the answer to that question. and worse, he knows that. that he knows the that. we know that he knows the answer that question much answer to that question much worse. so the problem there is he's look, he's effectively saying, look, i'm you know, i'm lying here and you know, i am. hopefully you'll let me am. but hopefully you'll let me get now, i know get away with it. now, i know he's he's since he's since apparently he's since worked out what a woman is, which good. well done. which is good. well done. if he's prime minister, which is good. well done. if he'sgood prime minister, which is good. well done. if he'sgood he prime minister, which is good. well done. if he'sgood he knowsminister, which is good. well done. if he'sgood he knows that ;ter, it's good that he knows that because there women in because there are women in society and some of them vote right now. so it is an issue, isn't it? and i think this campaign , of course, is an issue. >> and, you know, this is a

brilliant way of sort of sorting the wheat from the chaff in this argument . it's very direct. you argument. it's very direct. you have to answer it. and if you if you don't get it right first time, shouldn't get a second time, you shouldn't get a second bite of the cherry you bite of the cherry ever. you should right. should just get it right. i mean, it's mad. >> well, it's also mad the lib dem going dem conference, which is going on they've passed on at the moment, they've passed a saying that a motion saying that menstruation is not just a woman's issue . i sort think woman's issue. i sort of think it kind is . i woman's issue. i sort of think it kind is. i don't worry it kind of is. i don't worry myself about menstruation , you know? >> well, no, i mean, there are there are peripheral issues, aren't there, that that men have to deal with around that time. but i largely agree with you. >> but what's interesting is there was actually an interview today on gb news camilla tominey, who has a show on gb news put this question on to the lib dem mp for north east fife, wendy chamberlain . this was wendy chamberlain. this was earlier today. let's have a look at this. >> is this phrase people who menstruate, also menstruate, isn't that also known as women , women and people known as women, women and people who are trans? >> it is a very small proportion

of the population. but what am saying to you is, is that policy was poverty. and was about period poverty. and i'm pretty sure i get that you and the need i'm pretty sure i get that you an address. the need to address. >> no, but have you removed women and changed it to people who menstruate? because why not say women moved ? say women moved? >> we have not removed women at all. i mean, i know women and girls struggle with this issue, but i think we also have to make sure that we are inclusive and we make sure that we are considering everybody in our policy making. considering everybody in our policy youing. considering everybody in our policy you ing. many considering everybody in our policy youing. many men considering everybody in our policy you ing. many men who >> do you know many men who menstruate, though , camilla? menstruate, though, camilla? >> we're talking about period poverty. i think it was a really strong, powerful, and i really wish you had been there. you should it back on youtube should look it back on youtube to the debate, because we to hear the debate, because we were that were very focussed on that challenge . challenge. >> i mean , they talk about being >> i mean, they talk about being inclusive and they're excluding 50% of the population. >> when women get really annoyed about this and i understand why. if you're eliminating the words woman even woman, mother, even breastfeeder, becomes breastfeeder, which becomes chest feeder, which makes it sound some alien speech, chest feeder, which makes it sourknowne alien speech, chest feeder, which makes it sourknow ,a alien speech, chest feeder, which makes it sourknow , i alien speech, chest feeder, which makes it sourknow , i mean, alien speech, chest feeder, which makes it sourknow , i mean, it'snn speech, chest feeder, which makes it sourknow , i mean, it's and eech, chest feeder, which makes it sourknow , i mean, it's and these you know, i mean, it's and these phrases, people who menstruate

tampax had people who bleed or bleeders . and you just think bleeders. and you just think these sound like misogynistic euphemisms for women. well that's exactly what someone who hates women would say. >> well, yeah, just it tells you so much about the way the person sees world, doesn't it? sees the world, doesn't it? and the you to the things they want. you to come no, thank you. come in on. and no, thank you. >> i mean, look. we had >> no, i mean, look. so we had millie show and she millie hill on the show and she was this feels like was saying that this feels like an attack on women. it feels like misogynistic. it like a misogynistic. i mean, it is, it? got to be, right. >> what it is. misogyny of course it because it's it is course it is. because it's it is a dislike of women because it's excluding women from women excluding women from being women , which is the weirdest thing i've said today. and i've said some weird today. some weird things today. you have. some weird things today. you have . but these people are lying have. but these people are lying to themselves . so. so if they're to themselves. so. so if they're lying themselves , who are lying to themselves, who are they telling the truth to? yeah i fair, it's the lib dems. >> so yeah, but i mean, she kept arguing the point and then obfuscating in such a weird way that she never answered the point at all. >> she kept talking about period poverty , which can only be poverty, which can only be suffered by women.

>> stumbling. suffered by women. >> when stumbling. suffered by women. >> when stumble ing. suffered by women. >> when stumble ,|g. suffered by women. >> when stumble , i. suffered by women. >> when stumble , i mean, >> and when you stumble, i mean, that's that the that's that's something that the police would say, like, oh, what are hiding? you know? right. are you hiding? you know? right. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> when you stop your >> when you stop in your speeches because you sometimes don't the don't quite want to say the thing the tip of your. thing that's on the tip of your. yeah, just embarrassing to watch. >> anyway. okay that >> anyway. okay so that is all we've time this part. we've got time for in this part. but on free speech but next up on free speech nafion but next up on free speech nation , going be nation, we're going to be discussing controversial discussing the controversial online bill why it online safety bill and why it might pose a threat to free speech. be talking to speech. i'll be talking to journalist and author ella whelan that in just few whelan about that in just a few minutes. anywhere .

>> you're listening to gb news radio . on mark dolan tonight in radio. on mark dolan tonight in my big opinion, a sensible approach to net zero has moved the dial for rishi sunak whilst windmill loving keir starmer is running out of puff in my take a ten prince harry has been rendered homeless by the palace and he's only brought this on himself at last. some tough love from his father, the king plus election guru sirjohn from his father, the king plus election guru sir john curtice from his father, the king plus election guru sirjohn curtice , election guru sir john curtice,

top lord john taylor, an and ann widdecombe. we're live . widdecombe. we're live. at nine. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. so the house of lords passed the online safety bill this week, which effectively outsources state censorship to unelected regulators. children's charity nspcc said the law would mean a safer online world, but critics argue it will allow a regulator and tech firms to dictate what may or may not be said online. so is this a troubling threat to free speech? journalist and author ella whelan joins me now . hello, welcome to the show . . hello, welcome to the show. >> now you've been talking about this for a long time on spiked and in various other publications we've been talking about it on this show. >> but for a people, it's >> but for a lot of people, it's appeared out nowhere. appeared out of nowhere. suddenly a lot of suddenly it's law and a lot of people don't what people really don't know what it's are the it's about. what are the dangerous implications this bill? >> well, the entirety of the

bill is pretty bad because it it's in principle, it's founded upon the idea that the public square of the online world should be controlled primarily by government , should be controlled primarily by government, but by big tech. >> yes. and that social media, you know, twitter , facebook, you know, twitter, facebook, youtube and should have powers to be able to one prevent what we see. and control what what it is that's the kind of content that's put out . it's done in that's put out. it's done in terms of what's considered illegal. so part of that is kind of no brainers , child, you know of no brainers, child, you know , extreme violence, terrorism , , extreme violence, terrorism, but also linked into what's considered illegal is sort of hate crime. whatever that means. yes. abuse whatever that means, coercion, controlling behaviour, whatever that means. and so essentially what it's doing is setting up a relationship between the public and the internet , which between the public and the internet, which is incredibly censored , incredibly controlled. censored, incredibly controlled. and in a new world where, you know, particularly post pandemic, a lot of political

discourse happens online. yes. a lot of organising of people's private happens online private lives, happens online in. and it's a really, really big problem. >> well, the nspcc talks about child safety in that kind of thing. mentioned example child safety in that kind of thichild mentioned example child safety in that kind of thichild andientioned example child safety in that kind of thichild and evenned example child safety in that kind of thichild and even things example child safety in that kind of thichild and even things like mple of child and even things like death threats and that kind of thing. those are already illegal and those are things that are already routinely removed by social media. it's not as though twitter kind twitter is awash with this kind of stuff . yeah, so but what of stuff. yeah, so but what they're conflating with this online things online safety bill is things that what they've that people. well what they've used the term legal but harmful speech things that are psychologically emotionally psychologically or emotionally distressing that's the worry isn't it here. yeah. >> they specifically the >> and they specifically use the term psychological harm term sort of psychological harm and causes and hate that causes psychological harm, which is interesting because it's sort of there's harm and then there's psychological harm . the emphasis psychological harm. the emphasis on mental health in this bill is quite explicit in a way that sort of takes for granted the idea that it's a given that if people interact with what they call hateful content content , call hateful content content, that there will be psychological harm . so it's completely denying harm. so it's completely denying any sort of robustness among the

public. but the thing about sort of , you know, public. but the thing about sort of, you know, combating things that are bad, like i said, child , extreme violence , terrorism , extreme violence, terrorism and things like that, or take, for example, stuff like children seeing suicidal content, which is a kind of dark new feature of the modern world. and obviously there was the case of molly russell and you know, kids seeing some pretty bad stuff. theidea seeing some pretty bad stuff. the idea that that is going to be that sort of trend in society of children being able to see things that that are age inappropriate, whether it's or or these kind of violent things is to is one, responsibility is to is one, the responsibility of tech firms or to be solved by trying to get tech firms to clamp down on us completely misunderstands the fact that this is a cultural problem. yes. that it's the duty of you know, we have to ask about what parents are doing, what kind of people talking about in people are talking about in their it's their peer groups. it's a cultural yes. it's a cultural issue. yes. it's a cultural issue. yes. it's a cultural not cultural political issue, not a technical can fixed technical one. that can be fixed by a bill that forces tech companies to intervene into our

private there two private lives. and there are two things to consider terms of things to consider in terms of who is going to be responsible for the one hand, >> so on the one hand, outsourcing some outsourcing it to ofcom or some unregulated some regulator unregulated or some regulator who hasn't . been elected. now, who hasn't. been elected. now, of course, we know that these bodies are often ideological captured. they tend to have a particular view the world. if particular view of the world. if you of you give them that kind of power, to power, isn't it open to exploitation ? exploitation? >> yeah, well, definitely. i mean, question ofcom, >> yeah, well, definitely. i meanis, question ofcom, >> yeah, well, definitely. i meanis, you question ofcom, >> yeah, well, definitely. i meanis, you know:ion ofcom, >> yeah, well, definitely. i meanis, you know ,)n ofcom, >> yeah, well, definitely. i meanis, you know , they've com, >> yeah, well, definitely. i meanis, you know , they've made there is, you know, they've made some, i'd say, pretty dodgy decisions in the past, certainly politically loaded ones. we know that there was a kind of an issue around links to stonewall or the way in which it treated gender critical content in the past . but also there is this row past. but also there is this row over encryption . so whether or over encryption. so whether or not ofcom can be can essentially give people notice , give give people notice, give platforms notice to say that they have to mine their content to prevent things that are illegal terrorism, child, but breaking encryption and enforcing , say for example, enforcing, say for example, whatsapp is forced to read its

users messages as you can. anyone can make the argument and say, well, wouldn't you want that if it just saves one person from viewing child ? what you from viewing child? what you know what that kind of you can do that zero sum game of say it has have to has to happen. we have to sacrifice this . and i think we sacrifice this. and i think we forget all benefits , forget all of the benefits, rights the pros of rights and all of the pros of privacy encryption, whether that be of political activism, be sort of political activism, price , private lives, you know, price, private lives, you know, private in terms of our ability to differentiate our public and our public lives and our lives at home. yes you know, and i think we forget all of the we sort of almost throw the baby out with the bathwater, which is that these big fearful things are down on are used to clamp down on freedom that actually is necessary for so much of our lives. and you know, the online safety bill has been framed in terms about protect terms of being about protect kids, which who who's going to sit here and argue that that kids shouldn't be protected. right but in actual fact, when you scroll down the gov.uk website , you see that actually website, you see that actually most of it is about adults and most of it is about adults and most it is about saying sort

most of it is about saying sort of be able to ask of adults will be able to ask big tech to filter out hate for them or what the hell. >> what does mean though? exactly >> yeah and you know that that but actually bill but it's actually the bill infantilizes us. it treats the whole society like we're whole of society like we're children and the internet is not primarily a child, a children's space. yes, it isn't. it's meant to be an adult space. >> what about this idea we have tested what happens when big tech are given the power to censor? we've seen since the release of the twitter files that the staff silicon that the staff at silicon valley were censoring were very much censoring opinions they didn't agree with that were perfectly legal, and they were doing it routinely and sometimes the behest of sometimes at the behest of government officials. right. so that's happens when you that's what happens when you give the power to do give big tech the power to do this. so it's surely we should have learned our lesson now. have learned our lesson by now. >> sort of >> this idea that sort of everyone involved in everyone who's involved in twitter or youtube or, you know , sat in lovely offices in , sat in the lovely offices in google and stuff that are google and stuff like that are sort a perfect example of sort of a perfect example of the, you know, public a demographic representative that sort of has left and right and everything in between. and they

all have to sit around in their editorials decide editorials when they decide what to hang on to censor and say, well, hang on a minute. you know, andrew has been, very fair his been, you know, very fair in his opinions be. opinions and let's leave him be. that's nonsense . in fact, in that's nonsense. in fact, in fact, it's sort of fact, actually, it's sort of it's kind of a much more benign censorship , which it's kind of a much more benign censorship, which is that it's kind of a much more benign censorship , which is that there censorship, which is that there isn't there isn't a kind of political weight behind it. it's just expressive of this kind of knee jerk anti risk reaction, which is that any political opinion boat out opinion that pushes the boat out , political opinion , any political opinion that might be challenging a consensus tends just get whether it's tends to just get whether it's shadowbanned or whatever gets pushed down. and i think underneath all of this is a real kind of misanthropy, particularly from politicians and the house of lords. the idea that if given freedom , if given that if given freedom, if given liberty online, to be able to talk freely, all that will happenis talk freely, all that will happen is we'll end up in a cesspit. and that's not to underestimate the nasty side of twitter in particular. yeah i think everybody knows that that exists . but i think everybody knows that that exists. but i think this we really have to back the really have to push back on the kind founding principle of kind of founding principle of the safety bill, is the online safety bill, which is that freedom awful. freedom

that freedom is awful. freedom is dangerous. given freedom is dangerous. and given freedom online, people will become disgusting . and i just don't disgusting. and i just don't think that's true. >> also , isn't there the >> so also, isn't there the issue if say to the big issue that if you say to the big tech firms there be tech firms there will be financial major financial penalties, major financial penalties, major financial fail financial penalties, if you fail to remove hateful content, are they just going to censor everything? and about it later? >> yeah, there there will >> yeah, there is. there will be. again, these be. you know, again, these companies, big business, you know, big tech is not sort of into assisted in bettering the i wish it were the academy of ideasis wish it were the academy of ideas is you know interested in bettering political discourse or opening up free spaces for debate . it's actually really debate. it's actually really insidious how much the language of freedom, the language of liberty is used and twisted by both the government and these institutions to say , you know, institutions to say, you know, we these 25 different codes we have these 25 different codes of conduct that control you and what you can say in various ways to empower your free speech. it's just such it's so annoying andifs it's just such it's so annoying and it's such a load of bs, but it's, you know, the again, you have to come back to the idea of

who is to best or who is best to decide for you, for you as an adult, what you interact with online. is it mark zuckerberg or whoever ? elon musk? is it you whoever? elon musk? is it you know, your local mp is it an unelected member of the house of lords or is it yourself ? right. lords or is it yourself? right. and actually, i think we have to get a lot better at saying that we take responsibility to if we want to make change the want to make change on the onune want to make change on the online world. i do want online world. because i do want to know, kind of the to stop you know, kind of the nasty that happens nasty stuff that happens there of, treat it like the real of, of treat it like the real world, which is that when you see wrong, see something that's wrong, you're try you're interact with it, you try and you don't call the and stop it. you don't call the police and say, you go knock police and say, can you go knock on because she's up on her door because she's put up something online. on her door because she's put up sonokay.g online. on her door because she's put up sonokay. very online. on her door because she's put up sonokay. very interesting >> okay. very interesting message. much >> okay. very interesting mejoining much >> okay. very interesting mejoining me much >> okay. very interesting mejoining me today. much >> okay. very interesting mejoining me today. really much forjoining me today. really appreciate . appreciate it. >> next up on free speech nation, i'll be talking to academic and author alka sehgal. >> cuthbert, who has no platform this week from the rethinking education conference after other delegates claimed that her opposition to critical race theory made them feel unsafe ,

theory made them feel unsafe, safe. but first, let's get your latest weather. >> looks like things are heating up. box boilers, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> hello there. welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. i'm craig snell. well, looking ahead to the week ahead, it is certainly going to remain unsettled , especially middle of unsettled, especially middle of the potentially very the week, potentially turn very windy of us. back to windy for some of us. back to the and now. and we have the here and now. and we have got low pressure generally dominating the atlantic. that's going in bands of rain going to bring in bands of rain as we through next 24 as we go through the next 24 hours. the tightly as we go through the next 24 hours. isobars the tightly as we go through the next 24 hours. isobars indicatingtightly as we go through the next 24 hours. isobars indicating it'stly packed isobars indicating it's going to very windy. so going to be very windy. so here's the situation as we end sunday a of rain sunday got a band of rain spreading way across the spreading its way across the country. pulses on country. some heavy pulses on it. and it's going to be a fairly windy night, especially across the northern half of the country , turning little country, turning a little bit dner country, turning a little bit drier clearer across the drier and clearer across the south the night. and south as we end the night. and for all of it's going to be for all of us, it's going to be a one. temperatures a fairly mild one. temperatures staying so we staying in double figures. so we start monday off on a fairly sunny across many parts sunny note across many parts of england still england and wales. still maybe some overnight rain to contend

with very far with across the very far southeast . and really the is southeast. and really the day is going mixture of going to be a mixture of sunshine and scattered showers. going to be a mixture of sunsshowersi scattered showers. going to be a mixture of sunsshowersi scatte|focusseders. the showers mainly focussed across parts of across more northern parts of the country, could see some heavy showers for scotland and to northern ireland and quite a breezy especially again in breezy day, especially again in the may temper the the north. that may temper the temperatures somewhat up here, but towards the south—east but down towards the south—east feeling warm. highs of 23 feeling quite warm. highs of 23 degrees to stay. another day of sunny spells and scattered showers could see some heavy showers. initially across the east. later on, this east. and then later on, this more organised band of rain spread in from the west as we spread in in from the west as we go through the course of the day . and that sets us up for a very windy middle part the week. windy middle part of the week. watch wednesday. watch out for wednesday. warnings force the warnings are in force for the north . north and west. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers, proud sponsors of weather on

radio.

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation , an academic who opposes nation, an academic who opposes critical race theory has been turned away from an education conference over concerns that she threatens the psychological safety of other speakers. >> alka sehgal cuthbert, director of don't divide us, was to speak this weekend at the rethinking education conference in london. but they didn't like that people complained , said that people complained, said they made her feel unsafe and that was the end of that. so alka sehgal cuthbert joins me now. welcome to the show. >> so alka, thank you. >> so alka, thank you. >> you're obviously a very dangerous , frightening person as dangerous, frightening person as you can see. as i can see. so you can see. as i can see. so you were there as as your role as an educator an lot as an educator with an awful lot of experience and qualifications to speak a panel. of experience and qualifications to speak a panel . what was to speak on a panel. what was the panel about the panel was going discussing going to be discussing indoctrination in education and what can schools do to avoid it. okay, now now, ironically , yes. okay, now now, ironically, yes. so isn't this an example of what you were to going be talking about, this kind of mentality?

>> well, that would mean, that >> well, that would i mean, that would up for would have come up in it for sure . mean, it was the sure. i mean, it was it was the other panellist are educators themselves , an academic, a very themselves, an academic, a very respected philosopher of education. and a tutor in a sixth form college. and myself . sixth form college. and myself. yes. you know , out out of yes. you know, out out of a conference with with many, many, many sessions on all sorts of things. i would say this was probably the most intellectually and politically challenging session and exactly the one that teachers and educators need to be engaging with. so i'm very saddened that it didn't go ahead i >> -- >> and 5mm >> and what is it about your views that make people feel unsafe? what is it that you believe? >> okay. okay so, well, you know, it is a bit ironic, you know, it is a bit ironic, you know, a kind of a company called rethinking education, led by two white directors , disinvite me , a white directors, disinvite me, a woman of colour who argues that not all white people are racist . so that's a little bit odd, but. but there you go . what it but. but there you go. what it is, is they felt that they've never met me. i've never met.

there were seven anonymous people here and i think it's a bit shameful on them, really, that they haven't come public on this , not even offer support this, not even to offer support to organiser that stood up to the organiser that stood up for yes but so . but please for them. yes but so. but please come public if you want to . we come public if you want to. we the sorry , what was your question? >> well, they effectively said that. >> well, because it's so ridiculous. i'm not surprised. what do they object to ? what do they object to? >> well don't they. the central tenets of don't us. the tenets of don't divide us. the two main things that we don't believe structurally believe britain is structurally racist and we don't think that, you know, people fall into white privilege, black oppression, oppressor, victim thing . right. oppressor, victim thing. right. yeah. and obviously that has implications for schooling and education because we don't believe that schools should be teaching those ideas as if they were facts like critical race theory. >> so contested theories basically. >> so , you know, now the fact is >> so, you know, now the fact is , is this is really much more about race and it's much more than just me being cancelled or , you know, the james manion

feeling discomfited. this is about about those tenants. a majority views , right? yes. poll majority views, right? yes. poll after poll shows the majority of people do not think agree with us. they do not think britain is structurally racist and they don't agree that it should be that should be taught as fact to children in schools. so when they cancel when they cancelled me, they weren't just denying the other . 473 people at the the other. 473 people at the conference a chance to hear that debate . yes, they were actually debate. yes, they were actually siding with an aspect of an ideology that is seeking to delegitimize majority public opinion. yes, that is hugely that has huge democratic implications. right. because it's a discussion we need to be having, isn't it? >> i mean, absolutely. and you've made clear in your writing before that racism is something tackle. we something we must tackle. we must against. must stand up against. >> absolutely . you know, of >> absolutely. you know, of course, i would you know, it's you know, if you're in a school

and you think there's racism, you are morally, ethically, politically and professionally bound to address that. yes. what you are not morally, ethically, politically , only professionally politically, only professionally bound bound to do is to accept the claims without reasons given. yes. for making a huge assertion that stigmatise causes assertion that stigmatise causes a whole the beliefs of a whole majority of people, as if that were fact. you know, that's what doesit were fact. you know, that's what does it do to the kids, though? >> i mean, i've got a teacher friend, they a visiting friend, they said a visiting speaker came in, took all the black children out just by looking them, decided who she looking at them, decided who she would then took would take out and then took them to room explain to them to a room to explain to them to a room to explain to them always be them how they'll always be oppressed will always oppressed and they will always be. effectively be. they were effectively being oppressed be. they were effectively being oppress

you know, what has happened here is that james manion has presented the dilemma he was faced when he was he's the director of the conference. he's the director. so he was faced with seven anonymous complainants visibly complainants who were visibly shaking at the thought having shaking at the thought of having to be share a space with me. yes um, and he then had to make a decision right? he had to decide whether to believe them. yes. or gently talk them through like you would a child, that there was no objective reason to fear me . yes. they didn't have to me. yes. they didn't have to come into the same room as me if they didn't want to. but you know, maybe, you know, actually the way of overcoming fear is to engage , you know, in controlled engage, you know, in controlled environments which are public for, you know, a public event is with ideas that you disagree with. >> they don't mean it, do they? they don't really feel unsafe by your presence. >> sure. >> sure. >> i mean, you know , i'm going >> sure. >> i ma n, you know , i'm going >> sure. >> i ma goodj know , i'm going >> sure. >> i ma good faithw , i'm going >> sure. >> i ma good faith readingjoing >> sure. >> i ma good faith reading ofng to give a good faith reading of that. i don't know. i mean, it could that they felt scared could be that they felt scared or that, you know, or it could be that, you know, there certainly the

there was certainly among the delegates , there delegates and speakers, there are people who belong or are affiliated with groups that we have criticised in our reports. right. so but i don't know. i don't know who it was . i would don't know who it was. i would welcome them. i really wish they would come public. i'd love to discuss with them. >> well, i would invite them on this show and can have this show and we can have a discussion about this because it would because would be brilliant because my instinct know, if instinct is that, you know, if you either you complain to either an employer or someone organising an event like this and say, i don't like hearing different views, you please the views, can you please ban the views? with? views? i don't agree with? they'll we're not going they'll say, no, we're not going to but you in to do that. but if you go in saying, i'm now unsafe, then they have a kind of health and safety obligation to do something about it. it feels like tactic. like a tactic. >> like, you there >> like, well, you know, there isn't if not even a isn't even if it's not even a health thing, we just isn't even if it's not even a healtiella thing, we just isn't even if it's not even a healtiella whelan:hing, we just isn't even if it's not even a healtiella whelan on g, we just isn't even if it's not even a healtiella whelan on talking|st heard ella whelan on talking about the psychological arguments but you see arguments used. but you see those safeguarding protection arguments. they apply to interaction between adults and children , right? we are adults . children, right? we are adults. we are equal citizens. children, right? we are adults. we are equal citizens . so what we are equal citizens. so what is happening here is and you're

morally autonomous. that's a central tenant of don't divide us. what is happening here is that there is an informal pressure being exerted to treat us as if to be good. you have to be morally compliant. yes and thatis be morally compliant. yes and that is the real authoritarian kernel at the heart of this. so i would really urge anybody in james mannion's situation in senior leadership in schools or on, you know, management teams in business places. if you are if you feel that pressure from people within your workplace. i'm not saying disregard it, but i'm not saying disregard it, but i'm saying you really have to 6my i'm saying you really have to apply your reason to it and not be swayed by an emotional reaction because what james did and, you know, i feel sorry for him in many ways, but the problem isn't a logistical one of how you're going to fill in. you know, people not turning up the problem is a kind of a moral and a political one. and a kind of one of public responsibility , because there has been an apology today. >> there has been an apology. >> there has been an apology. >> yes. and accept that gratefully. but i really , really gratefully. but i really, really

would would press the point that you know, it's not just personal inqu you know, it's not just personal insult to me . it's not even insult to me. it's not even possible . you know, kind of i possible. you know, kind of i don't know about defamation legally, but kind of delegitimize housing. don't divide us. it's not even the free speech within the context of that event . this is of that event. this is delegitimizing popular public opinion that is authoritarian, very important. >> and finally , did they never >> and finally, did they never consider the irony of , you know, consider the irony of, you know, taking the only non—white person on the panel so you end up with an all white panel, all for the sake of diversity ? well this sake of diversity? well this this is what this, this, this is the authoritarian paradox of the edi agenda is , yes, diversity edi agenda is, yes, diversity means conformity . means conformity. >> equality means treating people unequally and inclusion means exclude asian. >> okay, well, i'll tessa jowell cuthbert thanks very much joining mean and i should say that james manion, the

conference organiser, did say in a statement we've been contacted by seven people, a combination of speakers and delegates who communicated very clearly they would speak at would not feel safe to speak at or attend the conference alongside a representative of don't when someone don't divide us when someone tells you they feel unsafe, you need to but there has need to listen, but there has been an apology since we should say there has been an apology since to come on free since still to come on free speech nation, top social speech nation, the top social sensations have gone viral sensations that have gone viral this do not go this week. please do not go anywhere

okay. welcome back to free speech nation. >> so it's this last part of the show. >> so it's time for social sensations. that's when we look at what's been going viral this week on social media. first up is this video recorded that all people are made in the loving image of god , no matter who they image of god, no matter who they are or how they dress and express themselves as or who

they. express themselves as or who they . love they. love >> this is the diversity in the visibility of voices of the . visibility of voices of the. lgbt community and related spaces where everyone from drag queens are often targets of hate and violence. >> but we know that they are powerful and resilient people who us what means be who show us what it means to be truly authentic and expressive. >> church >> okay, so that's a church in texas a there's a texas. and there's a there's a cluster drag all very cluster of drag queens all very elaborately made up and people chanting their support in church . and i don't know what to say. like, what do you say to this? >> well, they really have rewritten play, rewritten the nativity play, haven't mean, haven't they? they're i mean, unbelief the that this unbelief, all the idea that this is a cult is basically is not a cult is basically destroyed by that video. is not a cult is basically desthisnd by that video. is not a cult is basically desthis isby that video. is not a cult is basically desthis is just|at video. is not a cult is basically desthis is just it video. is not a cult is basically desthis is just i watched >> this is just i watched that. i there's more i think there's nothing more i can say about this. this is self satirising. is palpably satirising. it is so palpably nonsense . nonsense. >> in this name of >> it's all in this name of inclusivity, isn't it? i know we discuss all the time, but discuss it all the time, but there's a reason you don't there's a reason why you don't get everyone in everything. >> yeah, there is that. >> yeah, there is that. >> it . >> and that's it. >> and that's it.

>> also drag used to be cool >> but also drag used to be cool and own thing. and its own thing. >> must be some drag >> there must be some drag artists out there thinking what has drag. artists out there thinking what hasdrag. drag artists are not an >> drag. drag artists are not an oppressed minority . oppressed minority. >> they're used to just watch rupaul because he makes me feel i >> -- >> he reminds me i could bring the power of drag into my everyday life. i think he's fabulous and he doesn't strike me as oppressed. no. as an oppressed person? me as oppressed. no. as an oppress exactly. wn? >> no, exactly. >> no, exactly. >> burning drag >> people weren't burning drag queens stake the queens at the stake in the mediaeval period because they just changed their clothes and they'll be fine. so, so ridiculous. we've got ridiculous. okay, now we've got this anyway. this this one this video anyway. this this one

next this guy winds me up. so the thing is, we give him way too much airtime. he's on. he's on this show all the time. this guy dresses up as a dog now. he's looking for love. wants looking for love. he wants someone dresses up as someone else who dresses up as a dog am i the only one dog like, am i the only one who's getting with this? who's getting fed up with this? >> he's absurd, but good >> i think he's absurd, but good luck it. i mean, luck to him. i hope it. i mean, god, does find the one, god, if he does find the one, they're going the one, they're going to be the one, aren't they? that's pretty special. going to find the aren't they? that's pretty specilet's going to find the aren't they? that's pretty specilet's be)ing to find the aren't they? that's pretty specilet's be honest. ind the aren't they? that's pretty specilet's be honest. it'sthe aren't they? that's pretty specilet's be honest. it's not one. let's be honest. it's not looking like they're going to looking like they're going to look and what look at that and think, what the hell you? hell is wrong with you? >> eventually will >> you know, eventually it will be teaching kids at school anyway. are you dressing anyway. why are you dressing like what what? like that? what what? yeah, that's only that is the only that's the only that is the only possible explanation. >> comment what's >> really. or comment is what's going on. yeah, i understand. people have fetishes . i get it. people have fetishes. i get it. fine. that's quite fine. and that's quite convincing. costume. fine. and that's quite convirwas.. costume. fine. and that's quite convirwas. do costume. fine. and that's quite convirwas. do younstume. fine. and that's quite convirwas. do you know. fine. and that's quite convirwas. do you know what? >> it was. do you know what? >> it was. do you know what? >> no, beg to differ. oh, come on. >> on. >> it would have taken a scrapple and a ruffle. worries. >> you can't you wouldn't >> you can't tell you wouldn't know difference. doesn't the know the difference. doesn't the motion upset you? the fact that he he can only roll . >> yeah, he can only roll. >> yeah, he can only roll. >> he. he needs a really good vet . vet. >> there are decent dogs out there. look at that. thinking.

this is appropriation. >> look , we've got time >> okay, look, we've got time for one unfiltered dilemma. i think this came in from denise. denise i recently got denise said, i recently got asked on a date by a man who is five years younger than me. he's lovely, i'm this is lovely, but i'm worried this is too an gap. advice? too big an age gap. any advice? five years isn't too big an age gap. >> it depends how old they are. >> it depends how old they are. >> we didn't hear her age. that's a crucial piece of information. if she's information. so yeah, if she's there some boundaries, there are some boundaries, aren't there, that if they fall beneath below , there'll be beneath them below, there'll be a but on. a problem. no, but come on. >> mean, most have >> i mean, like most people have a gap between i mean , unusual, a gap between i mean, unusual, isn't it that way round . isn't it that way round. >> but it's 2023. you can do what you like. you can be a dog in a costume, do what you like. >> doesn't matter. what do >> it doesn't matter. what do you paul? you think, paul? >> wife is three years >> to be? my wife is three years older >> to be? my wife is three years old well, there we go. >> well, there we go. >> well, there we go. >> when i was 18 and she was >> and when i was 18 and she was 21, cool. when you're 21, that was cool. when you're 43 and 46. >> not so cool. how 43 and 46. >> but not so cool. how 43 and 46. >> but there 3 cool. how 43 and 46. >> but there are ol. how 43 and 46. >> but there are married lovely. but there are married couples year gap. >> it's nothing to do with us. >> it's nothing to do with us. >> no. >> no. >> do you know what could >> do you know what you could start every week start the whole every week with that, you? this that, couldn't you? this is nothing with good

nothing to do with us. good night it . >> that's it. >> that's it. >> no, we can't do that. but thanks for joining us this week. this was the week when a new campaign was launched to determine elected determine whether our elected mps know what is. mps know what a woman is. a non—binary a dog appeared on children's tv and drag queens were being worshipped at a church texas. thank you to my church in texas. thank you to my panel church in texas. thank you to my panel. paul cox and cressida wetton and to of my guests wetton and to all of my guests this and want to this evening. and if you want to join in the studio and join us live in the studio and be part of our wonderful studio audience, dead the audience, that's dead easy. the website is on the screen right now. you apply at ww dot sro now. you can apply at ww dot sro audiences.com. we have food we have drink. we have joy. stay tuned for mark dolan tonight that's coming up next. and don't forget. headliners is on every night at 11:00. that's the late night at 11:00. that's the late night paper preview show where comedians you the comedians take you through the next top news stories . next day's top news stories. thank for watching. free thank you for watching. free speech next week speech nation. see you next week i >> -- >> the temperature is rising . >> the temperature is rising. boxt solar, proud sponsors of

weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello there. welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast . i'm craig snell. well, looking ahead to week ahead, it is ahead to the week ahead, it is certainly remain certainly going to remain unsettled, especially middle of the , potentially turn the week, potentially turn very windy some of us. back to windy for some of us. back to the here now. and we have the here and now. and we have got low pressure generally dominating atlantic. that's got low pressure generally dominto ng atlantic. that's got low pressure generally dominto bring atlantic. that's got low pressure generally dominto bring abands. that's got low pressure generally dominto bring abands of1at's got low pressure generally dominto bring abands of rain going to bring in bands of rain as go through the next 24 as we go through the next 24 hours. and that the tightly hours. and note that the tightly packed indicating packed isobars indicating it's going so going to be very windy. so here's the situation as we end sunday got a band of rain spreading way across the spreading its way across the country. heavy pulses on it country. some heavy pulses on it and to be fairly and it's going to be a fairly windy night, especially across the half the the northern half of the country, little country, turning a little bit dner country, turning a little bit drier the drier and clearer across the south end the night. and south as we end the night. and for all of it's going to be for all of us, it's going to be a one. temperatures a fairly mild one. temperatures staying figures. staying in double figures. so we start monday off on a fairly sunny many parts of sunny note across many parts of england and wales. still maybe some overnight rain to contend with far with across the very far southeast. the day is southeast. and really the day is going mixture of going to be a mixture of sunshine scattered sunshine and scattered showers. the focussed the showers mainly focussed across parts of across more northern parts of

the . we could see some the country. we could see some heavy for scotland and heavy showers for scotland and northern too, and quite northern ireland, too, and quite a especially again a breezy day, especially again in the north. that may temper the temperatures somewhat up here, towards the here, but down towards the southeast, feeling quite warm. highs tuesday , highs of 23 degrees tuesday, another day of sunny spells and scattered showers could see some heavy showers. initially across the east. and then later on, this organised band of rain this more organised band of rain spread going from west as spread going in from the west as we go through the course of the day . and that up for day. and that sets us up for a very windy middle part of the week . watch for wednesday. week. watch out for wednesday. warnings in force the warnings are in force for the north west . north and west. >> the temperatures rising. boxt solar the proud sponsors of weather on .

gb news. good evening. >> this is the latest from the newsroom . police searching for newsroom. police searching for a missing mother have arrested a

31 year old woman who attended an east london police station . an east london police station. the woman was also taken to hospital as a precaution to children reported missing from a centre for vulnerable mothers and children in london were found safe and well in harwich earlier today. officers were looking for 31 year old jamie lee kelly, who left the facility on tuesday with her three year old daughter and her newborn baby boy . so rogers could fill baby boy. so rogers could fill in for armed police after dozens of metropolitan police officers stood down from firearms duties following a murder charge against one of their colleagues . scotland yard requested military support for counter—terrorism duties if armed officers are unavailable . armed officers are unavailable. the officers have turned in their weapons after their colleague was charged with murder of chris. suella braverman ordered a review into the situation which met police commissioner sir mark rowley has this evening welcomed 24 year old kaba was unarmed and died when he was shot in his car in

south london last year. former transport secretary grant shapps says it would be irresponsible to keep ploughing money into hs2 plans. the government has failed to deny reports claiming the manchester leg is set to be scrapped. the east midlands parkway line is also under threat. the sunday telegraph claims the potential cost of the high speed rail scheme has increased by £8 billion. the cuts could be made before the tory party conference in manchester next month . downing manchester next month. downing street has sought to play down reports the prime minister is drawing up plans to slash in inheritance tax. the sunday times claims rishi sunak is considered eyeing reducing the current rate in the budget in march, despite a warning by chancellor jeremy march, despite a warning by chancellorjeremy hunt . he would chancellorjeremy hunt. he would have no headroom for tax cuts. death duty is charged at 40, but the vast majority of estates fall below the threshold. so married couples can pass on £1 million to their kids without being taxed . and finally, nasa