making it and working out whether or not anything will actually get done or is it all just more talk and more bluster 7 just more talk and more bluster .7 also, i want to squeeze a few other bits in as well if i can tonight. mental health. so many people are off work now because apparently they're struggling. should employers do more .7 and should employers do more.7 and prisons apparently i in 10 of them are not fit for purpose. i mean , come on, there is a cost mean, come on, there is a cost of living crisis. should refurbishing prisons be at the top of the list, if not at the top of the list, if not at the top , then where.7 when it comes top, then where.7 when it comes top, then where.7 when it comes to your priority, as you tell me before we get into all of that, and i can tell you now there's going to be some robust debates . we've got kelvin mackenzie and joe to get into. joe phillips. lots to get into. but do it, let's grab but before we do it, let's grab tonight's latest headlines .

tonight's latest headlines. >> michelle, thank you. well, good evening to you. michelle is right. today's top story is the home secretary has been saying migrants are arriving in small boats, has put an unsustainable pressure on the uk's asylum system and that the british taxpayer delivering a speech in washington earlier on today. suella braverman also argued that being discriminated against for being gay or a woman was not enough to qualify for asylum. where individuals are being persecuted . persecuted. >> and it is right that we offer sanctuary, but we will not be able to sustain an asylum system if, in effect simply being gay or a woman or fearful of discrimination in your country of origin is sufficient to qualify for protection in. but the shadow home secretary, yvette cooper, has commented on the speech and accused the government of failing to set out any new plans to tackle the small boats crisis and says the government is looking for a scapegoat to try and target

lesbian and gay people from countries like uganda, where they face serious persecution when they also only make up around 2% of asylum applications in the uk is just trying to distract people from her own failure where she should instead be getting a grip rather than ramping up the rhetoric and focusing on her failure to tackle the criminal gangs or to sort out the chaos in the asylum system . system. >> well, also in the news today, the mayor of greater manchester says he could take legal action against the government if the northern section of hs2 is scrapped. andy burnham says labour will build hs2 if it wins the election because a failure to do so would have massive implications for the north. the prime minister is reported to be alarmed by the runaway cost of the high speed rail link believed to exceed £100 billion. as for 15 years or more, kind of many people in the greater london system have been working

hard at the government's request to bring through these plans. >> we've devoted hours and hours and hours of time . all of our and hours of time. all of our development plans are linked to it. if they pull the plug, they are kind of ripping the heart out of the economic development plan for greater manchester and parts of the north. so all opfions parts of the north. so all options would absolutely be on the table . so sir ed davey says the table. so sir ed davey says his party would make nhs and cancer treatments a top priority if the liberals were in power. >> the leader told his party's conference they will rescue the nhs with more gp's and carers and greater investment in technology . he says he'll ensure technology. he says he'll ensure cancer patients will start treatment within two months of an urgent referral and that they'd been let down under the current government. >> i still think we could be doing so much better on cancer. far too many people are still waiting far too long for a diagnosis or to start treatment

after being diagnosed . and i'm after being diagnosed. and i'm afraid to say they've been let down and forgotten by this conservative government . conservative government. >> there's going to be a higher police presence in brighton, in sussex over the coming days after a string of rapes and sexual assaults , police were sexual assaults, police were called to an incident taking place on the beach just after 530 in the morning . on the 10th 530 in the morning. on the 10th of september, a man was arrested at the scene and charged with rape. and then just days later, another man was arrested on suspicion rape near brighton suspicion of rape near brighton pier investigations into pier while investigations into further assaults are continuing, sussex police are saying patrols in the area will be extended and they encourage anyone with any information on the attacks to come forward and contact them . a come forward and contact them. a hospital trust has failed to send out 24,000 letters from senior doctors to their patients and gp's after they became lost in a new computer system. newcastle hospitals has apologised for any anxiety or

inconvenience caused. as a result, the health care regulator has sought urgent assurances over patient safety . assurances over patient safety. most of the letters explain what happens when a patient is discharged and some crucial tests and results may have been missed by patients. we're told. but the trust says the unsent letters accounted for less than 0.3% of all patient contacts . 0.3% of all patient contacts. water companies will have to return £114 million to customers after falling short on set standards . the regulator, ofwat, standards. the regulator, ofwat, says most companies are failing to meet key targets on reducing pollution leakages and supply interruptions, while customers satisfaction has continued to fall, thames water has to return the most £101 million, followed by southern water , which has by southern water, which has been told it must pay back £43 million. vehicles scams have soared by 74. costs victims almost £1,000 each on average .

almost £1,000 each on average. potential buyers are often being duped by fake posts on social media or online marketplaces advertising vehicles that don't exist. they'll often be encouraged to pay a deposit or even the full amount up front. despite not seeing the car in person. people aged between 25 and 35 are those most likely to be stung. the findings were based on the analysis of scams reported by lloyds banking group. customers between january and june of this year. that's the news you're with gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and now on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. this is britain's news. channel >> thanks for that, polly. well, i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight, right alongside me. something tells me this is going to be a bit of a feisty one. i've got the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and the political commentator joe

phillips. sometimes when i have a panellist chuntering as a panellist that's chuntering as i it during the i like to call it during the news headlines, come news headlines, i normally come straight and say, what straight to them and say, what was you're but the was that you're saying? but the chuntering involved chuntering today involved a little of swearing. so little bit of swearing. so i can't do that today, which is fine because there's a lot going on in town for us get on in town today for us to get straight wasn't that straight to. it wasn't joe that was swearing anyway. was doing the swearing anyway. you the drill, don't you? you know the drill, don't you? on is not just about on dewbs& co is not just about us guys here. it's very much about you at home. what's on your mind tonight? vaiews@gbnews.com is how you reach tweet me at vaiews@gbnews.com is how you reainews. tweet me at vaiews@gbnews.com is how you reainews. but tweet me at vaiews@gbnews.com is how you reainews. but let's tweet me at vaiews@gbnews.com is how you reainews. but let's get weet me at vaiews@gbnews.com is how you reainews. but let's get straight at gb news. but let's get straight in, shall we? because at the top story of the day, i've just been heanng story of the day, i've just been hearing about it there in the headunes hearing about it there in the headlines of course, suella braverman. addressed an braverman. she has addressed an audience in washington, dc. she's basically all she's talking basically all about the global whatever you want to call it, asylum crisis, refugee crisis, taking the mickey of systems crisis ipsis other people are calling it lots. she had to say lots for us to unpick. we're going to try and get into it as much as we can. so let's start with a

little bit of background, shall we? in january, the world economic forum said that migration will become one of the top five global risks in the next decade ahead of national resource crisis. >> geo economic confrontation and environmental disasters . a and environmental disasters. a 2021 gallup poll found that 16% of adults worldwide and around 900 million people would like permanently to leave their own country . 4% of those polled by country. 4% of those polled by gallup approximately 40 million people named britain as their preferred destination . preferred destination. >> now, she really was talking tough, but one of the focuses of her primary frustration was the global framework . let's listen . global framework. let's listen. >> one of the most significant but underappreciated factors contributing to the global migration crisis is the global asylum framework . by this, asylum framework. by this, i mean the various well—intentioned legal

conventions and treaties that say, in effect , if you are say, in effect, if you are fleeing persecution somewhere where you are entitled to make a claim for asylum anywhere and irrespective of whether you arrived illegally or pass through multiple safe countries along the way , a country must along the way, a country must consider it seeking refuge in the first safe country. you reach or shopping around for your preferred destination are not the same thing . the extent not the same thing. the extent to which the global asylum framework enables the obscuring of these categories creates huge incentives for illegal migration. >> she really was. i'll start with you, kelvin, on this . she with you, kelvin, on this. she really was talking tough. she was talking about basically non—paris phrasing this un convention. she's saying it's all well and good. it was set up with the best of intentions, but now life has changed. things have moved on and basically a lot of lawyers have got a hold of this now and it is being

squished and stretched and interpreted, interpreted within an life. and some an inch of its life. and some would been abused. where would argue been abused. where are on it? are you on it? >> well, as she says in her speech, by the way, this this is the this is a great the speech. this is a great speech, probably the most interesting on the interesting speech on the subject has ever been made. subject that has ever been made. first of all, because it takes the out and puts the the emotion out and puts the stats in. the are stats in. the stats are horrendous . so to your stats in. the stats are horrendous. so to your point, in 1951, when the refugee convention was first introduced, thought it was going to affect about 2 million people. now according to a policy study i saw yesterday that same convention now is 780 million. our country , as far as i know, our country, as far as i know, and perhaps my socialist friend over there will disagree with me, is full up. over there will disagree with me, is full up . where are the me, is full up. where are the schools? where are the doctors ? schools? where are the doctors? where are the space? where are the where? where is going to be the where? where is going to be the work? the reality is we do not want anybody else . i don't i not want anybody else. i don't i don't want boat people. i don't want illegals of any kind. there will be people who are being pursued by horrible countries .

pursued by horrible countries. right? we're not talking about these kinds of people. after all, as she points out in ms braverman points out in there, this can apply to women , right? this can apply to women, right? well, as far as i know , they well, as far as i know, they aren't under the cosh any more than the rest of us. and the gay community. the idea we're going to the entire gay to take on the entire gay community of the world who feel oppressed is ridicule. yes, we have to change the rules . and have to change the rules. and i'm pleased that somebody a home secretary, makes this point and i'll tell you what was even more shocking was yvette cooper the idea that when labour get in, what they're say is, what they're going to say is, i'll you what, about i'll tell you what, forget about braverman on down. braverman said, come on down. that will be a vote loser for them. more important than them. and more important than that, the wrong thing to do i >> -- >> and i might be able to get a clip of that yvette cooper thing at some point. one of the things that she was saying is that and it got a lot of criticism because this all leaked as these things tend to before the actual event. that event. she's saying that actually comes to the actually when it comes to the law and how law being law and how the law is being interpreted around some of these conventions, there's been a

shift persecution. shift away from persecution. you're have a you're supposed to have had a well—founded you were well—founded fear that you were going persecuted for going to be persecuted for reasons race, religion , reasons of race, religion, whatever. now she's saying it's moved away from this persecution on to this. if you feel that you might be discriminated against, then you know you can progress claiming asylum. >> well, i would love her. love to see what evidence she's got to see what evidence she's got to back that up. there is no evidence to suggest that other than more countries signing up to the convention. there are now 150 countries signed up to the convention. there's no evidence to suggest that its framework has in fact, changed or be amended . now, just to go back, amended. now, just to go back, if i may , to kelvin's point if i may, to kelvin's point about women in what do you think about women in what do you think about women in afghanistan? well i feel i feel sorry for them, but they actually chose actually the country people chose to throw their hand in. >> so as the taliban came over the hill. right. not only did the hill. right. not only did the americans leave, not only did the british leave, actually

the african afghan army left as well. and they said, come on down, we're going to allow you to run our country now, what can we do about that? that is not thatis we do about that? that is not that is not our responsibility. see what happens within borders , as you're not suggesting, are you ? because on basis, are you? because on that basis, are you? because on that basis, are you suggesting that the whole of afghanistan come or the afghanistan come here or the whole or whole of whole of niger or the whole of parts of africa, wherever there is to be a war, a civil war? >> simple question . >> simple question. >> simple question. >> simple. my simple answer is. but you, and their menfolk but you, they and their menfolk have to fight for what they believe in. so it's that's what they've to deal with. it's they've got to deal with. it's not my responsible party, i can tell you that right . tell you that right. >> so in short, i think it's not, you know, that's not on the list the kelvin priorities. list of the kelvin priorities. can go on? can i just go on? >> well, just to make the point that, you know, women in afghanistan being persecuted afghanistan are being persecuted . they're not allowed to go to school. allowed school. they're not allowed to socialise. are threatened socialise. they are threatened with lengthy imprisonment if they are not properly dressed. so what are you suggesting? >> you suggesting we take >> are you suggesting we take them all on? >> i if you would, maybe let me

finish one sentence. finish with one sentence. >> explain to the viewers, >> just explain to the viewers, explain the what are >> just explain to the viewers, explsaying?1e what are you saying? >> because there because >> because there is because because the point that you made, michelle, about the difference between persecute and discrimination, what discrimination, which is what suella was trying suella braverman was trying to make about, would make a point about, i would argue women in afghanistan argue that women in afghanistan are being% looted. >> presumably would say >> she presumably would say that's discrimination . i would that's discrimination. i would say gay people in many countries in africa are being persecuted because they face lengthy jail sentences. life sentences and even the death sentence . in some even the death sentence. in some countries . now, at what point countries. now, at what point does discrimination and persecution meet suella braverman criteria for allowing anybody to want to flee a country ? country? >> do you think that there's a lot of people cottoning on very quickly and they have been for a while now that actually if i say that i'm gay, well, that is a one way kind of fast track to getting on to this kind of asylum seeking process as well, yvette cooper said there was a

figure of 2. >> the home office is own figure is 1.5% of people coming to this country seeking asylum because of their sexual orientation. so i don't think so . i don't think so. >> let's listen to some of what yvette cooper has to say with reference to a couple of times now we want to see proper international cooperation , both international cooperation, both on tackling illegal migration and also on supporting refugees , those who fled persecution and conflict. >> but at the moment the tories are totally failing to get any grip on the asylum chaos on the criminal gangs that are running along our border, on the hotel use that is now costing the taxpayer over £8 million a day and instead of setting out any practical plans, all the home secretary is doing is ramping up the rhetoric and looking around for someone else to blame. we should have a proper grip rather than the rhetoric and gimmicks that we always get from this home secretary. i think the home secretary has so badly lost any grip on the tories asylum chaos

which has been getting worse in the 13 years that they have been in power. but instead she is just lashing out, looking for other people to blame , to target other people to blame, to target people who are lesbian and gay, who face persecution in places like uganda where they have been threatened with the death penalty. isjust threatened with the death penalty. is just looking for scapegoats and targets rather than recognising her responsibility to get a grip of the asylum system to tackle the chaos that we face and to go after the criminal gangs that are operating along our border. >> when you listen to that and she's basically saying, look, suella, she's not got any response . she's not got any response. she's not got any solutions here, she can't stop these boats. so now she's just basically right, basically saying, right, it's you there. this kind you over there. this kind of global , is there a part global entity, is there a part of you that thinks she might have a point? >> no, she's got no point at all. i don't even know what her point what seems to be point is. what she seems to be saying this is what i suspect saying is this is what i suspect they're going to do. they're going allow various embassies going to allow various embassies across across the

across europe and across the world to be places where actually a potential quotes refugees , which is the point of refugees, which is the point of bravermans speech, basically, which is said under under the present circumstances . by the present circumstances. by the way, everybody is a refugee . way, everybody is a refugee. everybody, everybody in africa, everybody in the middle east, everybody, everybody . so everybody, everybody. so basically she's going to say, why don't you queue up over there and we'll allow you in from over there. can i can i tell you what that'll mean? you think you think that's bad now, if you think the 40 odd thousand coming over on their boats right now, that number will be into the two 300 or 400,000 a year every year. we can't do it. we have to simply say we don't want it. where i do agree with her and way, the idea that and by the way, the idea that labour are going to have any solution to this except come on down, it's ridiculous. is that the are fearful of doing the tories are fearful of doing the tories are fearful of doing the right thing. i'm never wrong to do the right thing, the right thing to have done was actually my idea, which of course the big row at the time, which is actually the we have the

actually the reason we have the sas the sbs is to go in and sas and the sbs is to go in and literally take out the smugglers. it is a war. it's a war. it's a war. what else are we going to do? don't you view it as a war? >> obviously we do condone rounding and shooting rounding people up and shooting them, what would them, but obviously, what would you what would you do? >> do if the >> what would you do if the country they're operating >> what would you do if the count we they're operating >> what would you do if the count we say they're operating >> what would you do if the count we say belgium operating >> what would you do if the count we say belgium orerating >> what would you do if the count we say belgium or france from, we say belgium or france for either find them or from, we say belgium or france for ei'know find them or from, we say belgium or france for ei'know to find them or from, we say belgium or france for ei'know to what them or from, we say belgium or france for ei'know to what doem or from, we say belgium or france for ei'know to what do with' from, we say belgium or france for ei'know to what do with them don't know to what do with them when they do get them, what would you do then? well, how are you deal this? you going to deal with this? somebody has do something dramatic. >> the problems of this society. i to hear from joe. i just want to hear from joe. let me very quickly before let me just very quickly before i to the the point i go to the break. the point that are making is there that people are making is there is a lot people right across is a lot of people right across the that live in different the world that live in different societies to ours where i don't know, don't regard know, they don't regard education for women the same way that world that we as the western world do. are saying, therefore, that are you saying, therefore, that actually the should open actually the west should open its to those tens and tens its door to those tens and tens of of people? its door to those tens and tens of i'm of people? its door to those tens and tens of i'm of peande? its door to those tens and tens of i'm of peand i think that >> no, i'm not. and i think that the language that is used and the language that is used and the hyperbole from suella braverman and particularly from kelvin congratulating braverman and particularly from kelv about congratulating braverman and particularly from kelv about of congratulating braverman and particularly from kelv about of hundreds ulating braverman and particularly from kelv about of hundreds of iting talk about of hundreds of thousands of people not

everybody wants to leave, but there is a truth that an awful lot, 40 million, according to braverman, according to the research there, 40 million said we'd like to we'd like to be there tomorrow. >> and that comes out only out of africa. >> this is what she's quoting in sps polls, 16% of adults sps 2021 polls, 16% of adults worldwide 900 million worldwide around 900 million people to permanently people would like to permanently leave country. people would like to permanently lea' it country. people would like to permanently lea' it doesn't country. people would like to permanently lea' it doesn't mean ntry. people would like to permanently lea' it doesn't mean ntnsay >> it doesn't mean to say they're to. well yeah, they're going to. well yeah, what they're saying is approximately 40 million of those britain their those named britain as their preferred destiny . but let us preferred destiny. but let us see the context of the actual question. and in context it question. and in what context it was put. but when kelvin talks about thousands of about hundreds of thousands of people coming here and talks in terms of we've got to close our borders, it's a war, let's take them out, it is vile , it is them out, it is vile, it is hatred . hatred. >> okay, let's told you it was going to be a feisty one. let's just deal with that. the times editorial write earlier in the week right. said that if we were to be included in the eu, you know, this idea of parcelling

out right at 13, which is the size of our population, that number be 180,000. and at number would be 180,000. and at that , at that number would be 180,000. and at that, at that starmer immediately threw his hand in and said, actually, having seen that number or actually always knew it was that number, we're not going to do that. we're not going part of the eu grip. going to be part of the eu grip. so that is just the times editorial. so you may have a view about views, but surely view about my views, but surely you're not going to taking you're not going to start taking on eyes. on the times editorial eyes. >> but 175,000 right now are sitting, waiting in limbo, costing the taxpayer. >> well, i don't want them here ehheni >> well, i don't want them here either. i don't want them here ehhen either. i don't want them here either. you will know, kelvin, that most of them are about 75 to 80% actually get their asylum . i do know that. and that has got to change. why that has got to change. valid because we are going to change the way that we view the world. let's talk refugee. >> let's talk about the impact here domestically in this country after the break. there's lots to unpick there. again suella was talking very tough, so we'll look at that bit in

just a couple of minutes

is. you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> hello there . i'm michelle >> hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. kelvin mackenzie and joe phillips remain alongside side me kelvin was saying round about now i imagine there'll be loads of people emailing in saying kelvin for prime minister. that's what like minister. that's what i like about your modesty. about you kelvin. your modesty. i know say i've been on such i know i say i've been on such shows before. yeah, we've sorted it during the break. i it all out during the break. i just told him to it in, just told him to pack it in, pointing at her. he said he's not going to point at her anymore, so we're good. we ended that friends, alex that segment as friends, alex said. world will said. hopefully the world will take the crisis that's take notice of the crisis that's enveloping of enveloping the free nations of the west . it doesn't matter what the west. it doesn't matter what she says, says david. we have a globalist pm in rishi sunak enoch. david says that speech was the first time anybody in government has said anything

sensible in months. let's hope they're the right people were listening and are willing to embrace the issue , andy says. embrace the issue, andy says. suella braverman speech was perfect. said what the majority of us brits think. yvette cooper well, she was always going to disagree. patricia i'm so proud of suella she's got what it takes. she has a spine. there you go. she got what it takes when it comes to your thoughts. now, whatever you might think of that situation we've just been discussing about the global framework and all the rest of it, you know, you cannot dispute that actually when it comes to the impact domestically, not this not just in the uk. there's lots of arguments breaking out all the place it comes all over the place when it comes to of not quotas, who to kind of not quotas, but who gets how many people, who gets to be sent where and received where because the impact domestically on huge influxes of people can be huge . let's listen people can be huge. let's listen to some of the things that suella was saying on that. more than 1 in 5 births are to foreign born mothers due to

immigration and high birth rates among foreign born mothers in english, secondary schools will need to find an extra 213,000 places by 2026. >> compare to 2020 and then , of >> compare to 2020 and then, of course, there are the direct financial costs. a 2014 study by university college london concluded that almost no illegal migrants end up paying in taxes . what they gained from the state in benefits . state in benefits. >> so that's something to pay attention to , isn't it? the attention to, isn't it? the impact on this countries infrastructure? >> it's choosing the words, isn't it? you know what? more than 1 in 5 births are to foreign born mothers. that doesn't mean to say they're refugees. they could be australian, they could be new zealanders, they could be south african, they could be french, polish. they could be people who are here are working here, living here perfectly legally that we need in all of our services . so that in all of our services. so that is fuelling an anti—foreigner.

anti it's just it's just horrible. it's horrible language. suella braverman if she's listening to this which i doubt because she's in washington would be so delighted because this is her pitch for leadership pushing herself further and further to the right of rishi sunak with the rhetoric and the red meat that that part of the conservative party want . of the conservative party want. but, you know, you're she's taking things out of context and i'm not taking out of context. >> not literally her words. no no said she is you know, and due to immigration and high birth rates among foreign born mothers in english, secondary schools will need to find an extra 213,000 places. >> we need more secondary school places anyway, not least because of the houses that are being built all over the place and they're not being built for refugees. they're for five bedroom houses for people . bedroom houses for people. >> are you suggesting that immigration doesn't have a burden on infrastructure? no i'm not. >> i live and work and come in

from kent, where? >> kent. whereabouts in kent? >> kent. whereabouts in kent? >> i'm down on the kent coast. i but i just, you know, we know perfectly well kent county council has struggled hugely to deal with unaccompanied children, unaccompanied migrant children. we know the pressures hugely . i mean, i think you're hugely. i mean, i think you're in kent or you were kelvin. >> no, no, that was. >> no, no, that was. >> oh, you can meet up for a coffee after the show if you birth close by. >> no, i think i'm closer to nigel actually, in terms of geographically, geographically, ho. 110. >> no. >> i live in i live in weybridge, in surrey. >> okay. i think was some >> okay. i think that was some wives ago. well, now that we've played everyone lives, played out where everyone lives, what do you think to the personal? >> the what do you think? to the point that she's making about the demands infrastructure? >> mean, the >> well, actually, i mean, the truth matter is, of truth about the matter is, of course, the indigenous course, that the indigenous population, the number of children is going population, the number of childrebut is going population, the number of childrebut being is going population, the number of childrebut being rebalanced. down. but it's being rebalanced. you would have thought you could i would have thought you'd economic you'd made the economic argument, say we argument, which is to say we need to have we need to have the youngster come through youngster to come through because population youngster to come through bec not; population youngster to come through bec not having population

youngster to come through bec not having them. population youngster to come through bec not having them. theulation youngster to come through bec not having them. the truthn are not having them. the truth about the matter is, as you well know, this is rather a side issue to it is the schools. there aren't enough schools or there aren't enough places in schools and there aren't enough hospitals and aren't hospitals and there aren't enough doctors to treat people. and a financial burden and so it's a financial burden to us. and if we take the point that the home secretary made, which last of which was the last piece of research fact, that research there was in fact, that when come here as illegals, when they come here as illegals, actually don't their actually they don't pay their way either . so it's not a good way either. so it's not a good it's not a good trade. the truth is the matter, she is making her political point as you are counterweight . what i am counterweight. what i am delighted about and i suspect gb news gb news viewers are delighted about, is that somebody at the top of government is making an argument which they because for too which they feel because for too long we've had the david cameron's of their kind who by the way, said that weasel words weasel words in agreement with merkel back in the 2010, 2012 era. and what happened ? he era. and what happened? he hasn't he didn't do one single thing. why he's a posh boy with

a big house and a big career and his missus has got loads of money. they do not live alongside the issues that ordinary people face. >> i agree that it is important to have a debate, but it needs to have a debate, but it needs to have a debate, but it needs to have a debate based on fact, not emotion, not hatred , and not not emotion, not hatred, and not fuelling you don't like the facts? >> come on, be honest. you don't like them. you don't like them putting this way. this is a i'm just looking at this speech here. this is a 25 page speech . here. this is a 25 page speech. and she's speaking in america where they face an even bigger issue than we do. right. so i am so pleased and so will the viewers be that somebody sometime who is in power says something that we fully understand? and so this is where you and i come at it from different directions. >> well, do you know what i said? that there would be very little. i thought that these guys agree on tonight. and guys might agree on tonight. and i right. but i want to i was right. but i want to squeeze some other topics in on this can, before this program, if i can, before the the show. but also, the end of the show. but also, there is one thing that remains to discussed, which is suella

to be discussed, which is suella braverman talking about braverman was talking about multiculturalism, braverman was talking about multiculturalisrthat works. so whether or not that works. so we'll pick up on that. but first, let's get the weather that warm feeling from that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello there. >> hello there. >> and greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. we have storm agnes on the way, bringing some very strong winds, some disruptive weather, heavy rain in places too, so we can see that on the bigger picture, this deep area of low pressure will push across the uk as we head through wednesday. large coastal waves, some strong winds, particularly across the north and the west of the uk. heavy rain to this evening, fairly quiet out there. some clear spells remaining, showers gradually clearing as we head overnight. the cloud thickening from the southwest as that approaches . but most that storm approaches. but most places under the clearer places dry under the clearer skies. northern ireland and scotland dipping into single figures. most , 12 to 14 figures. but for most, 12 to 14 celsius to take us into wednesday morning. so a dry start , but it won't take long

start, but it won't take long before the cloud thickens. the wind picks up and the rain starts into western starts to move into western areas. pushing north areas. this pushing north eastwards day. eastwards through the day. best of sunshine holding of the sunshine holding on across scotland and also across north scotland and also south—east england. but we could see gusts of possibly 80 see gusts of 70, possibly 80 miles hour towards the north miles an hour towards the north and west, combined and the west, combined with heavy rain, will lead to some disruption. metal risk warnings in day in force. cool feeling day here, but sunshine, but in any sunshine, temperatures lifting around temperatures lifting to around 22 celsius into thursday. that storm system moves out the way andifs storm system moves out the way and it's a mixture of sunny spells and showers across the north and the west. some heavy bursts possible elsewhere, generally some generally quite cloudy, some sunny spells between. and sunny spells in between. and then on, rain arriving then later on, rain arriving from west as we end the week from the west as we end the week and go into the weekend, it looks like further showers are possible, perhaps drier as we head to saturday. that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers >> proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> please will you tell joe that we cannot police the world? says

danny. we simply cannot save everybody . there is not enough everybody. there is not enough room . that's danny's point. karl room. that's danny's point. karl says. what a breath of fresh air. suella is . supports pretty air. suella is. supports pretty much everything she says. colin says , why are you only says, why are you only mentioning illegal migration? what about all the strain that legal migration puts on resources ? et cetera. well, keep resources? et cetera. well, keep your thoughts coming in as a final point from that speech. i want to look at before the end of the programme, i'll come to it in a second. multiculturalism um. is working in this um. is it working in this country not? you tell me

radio. hi there. >> i'm michelle dewberry with your little 7:00 tonight. the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, alongside me as as is the political commentator joe phillips. i have to say there is an awful lot of support for suella braverman and some of the things that she was saying in her speech in washington town today. you listen to it and

today. did you listen to it and be. i don't know , repulsed or be. i don't know, repulsed or appalled you heard? she appalled by what you heard? she has been criticised quite wildly for all manner of things . i for all manner of things. i mean, you know, you know how you know how the rhetoric goes these days, don't you? if you even dare to even suggest perhaps that you might want to control immigration, never mind. take it. some of the lengths that suella did in her speech today, if happy with what if you're not happy with what you had, get in touch and tell me as well. i'm fascinated to hear thoughts that. but hear your thoughts on that. but one issues that she one of the issues that she focussed on was around multiculturalism whether multiculturalism and whether or not it can not it's realistic and it can work. have a listen. work. let's have a listen. >> multiculturalism , um, makes >> multiculturalism, um, makes no demands of the incomer to integrate. it has failed ed because it allowed people to come to our society and live parallel lives in it. they could be in the society, but not of the society . and in extreme the society. and in extreme cases they could pursue lives aimed at undermining the stability and threatening the

security of our society. we are living with the consequence of that failure today. you can see it play out in the streets all over europe from malmo to paris, brussels to leicester. >> one of my viewers, harry, says as a woman of colour herself, suella is a national disgrace. what do you mean? what she was saying there about multiculturalism? >> well, in some areas it's kind of integrated and so i think i disagree slightly with that. however there are chunks of say , east london where you feel that another nation has almost grown up with with its own culture and its own schools. it's you know, parts of birmingham would be the same . it's you know, parts of birmingham would be the same. i don't know what the answer to that is. by and large, i think we get on well with each minority . we i think i don't minority. we i think i don't think we're we're quotes at war

with anybody on quotes. but i think if we allow the numbers to come in at the rate that they're going in right now as people start feeling aggrieved that we literally appear to be living in a borderless society , i think a borderless society, i think the situation could get worse. so i am actually quite proud of our country in in relation to multiculturalism. so i'm not quite sure i agree with her on that. yeah. >> and i mean, you know, one of the things she's talking about is national identity and she's talking about whether or not, you everyone's welcome to you know, everyone's welcome to society part of society as society to be part of society as long essentially become long as you essentially become a part of society and not a parallel entity at the side of it, do you agree with any of what she has to say? >> there? no, not particularly. i think, as kelvin says, that, you know, by and large, people get on reasonably well. it is inevitable, whether it was hauans inevitable, whether it was italians going to scotland and you know who people link together, they meet up with friends or somebody that they knew from back home or auntie so—and—so or, you know, polish

people living in in wiltshire , people living in in wiltshire, different communities living in parts of london who have their own particular religion , aukus own particular religion, aukus and other customs and their own food and their food shops and all of that sort of stuff. so i think actually, you know, it's fairly natural that you would mix together . but when she talks mix together. but when she talks about aimed at undermining and threatening thing, i don't think thatis threatening thing, i don't think that is true. and again, i go back to this language that she uses, which is so incendiary and it is just fuel saying such unpleasant attitudes amongst people all to other people who are here paying their taxes, working hard, doing their bit. >> i mean, i'm just looking at what's coming through in the inbox. i'm fascinated about this whole multiculturalism . where do whole multiculturalism. where do you live and what is it like there? i'm really interested . there? i'm really interested. >> i think that's what defines whether multiculturalism works . whether multiculturalism works. now. i live in in weybridge, which is , you know, a

which is, you know, a predominantly white or vastly white town and a successful town or kind of financially successful anyway. and therefore , we don't face any of the potential points of conflict which might come out through religion , for instance. however, religion, for instance. however, if i lived in parts of birmingham and i was of the dominant sort of majority white majority , i might feel slightly majority, i might feel slightly different about it or i might feel i might not care about in leicester. i mean, you take leicester, the points of conflict there are between two different sides of religion , different sides of religion, even, although one of them, one of them might be hindu and the other might be might might be muslim . so i think those are muslim. so i think those are those are the. so it's bizarre that where there is real conflict doesn't seem to be white. and the minority one of my viewers, other minorities, one of my viewers says i live in a small village and includes people from africa, asia and other parts of and they

other parts of europe, and they all fit in very well. >> we all come together. we take part village activities. part in most village activities. it people who driving it is people who are driving wedges between us all that are at fault. it's the person i'd like her to name that village ask. >> ask that lady who's watching. ask her to name that village . ask her to name that village. and i'd be very interested to know whether you yourself know, there you go. >> you've asked yourself, probably you, kelvin. probably hear you, kelvin. >> you're on yeah. >> you're on telly. yeah. >> you're on telly. yeah. >> you're on telly. yeah. >> you're you're not quiet >> you're not. you're not quiet and don't there's and timid. i don't think there's any they're sitting any danger that they're sitting there the questions there not hearing the questions that you pose. >> if you're if you're if you're still watching. madam, could you tell us the village is? tell us where the village is? i love it. >> assumed it's a lady. >> i've assumed it's a lady. it's a lady. by the way, i love how you assume that. that's the lady, that been in touch. lady, that she's been in touch. i noidea lady, that she's been in touch. i no idea if it's a man. i have no idea if it's a man. >> it sounds very gentle. >> it sounds very gentle. >> general. >> it sounds very general. >> it sounds very general. >> it sounds very general. >> i took it. you know, it's astonishing, kelvin. >> there are who are >> but there are men who are actually quite quite actually quite kind, quite thoughtful, quite considerate. no,yes, there are not. that >> yes, there are not. not that i know, anyway. >> no. >> no. >> well, well, what can i say? look, i want try move on look, i want to try and move on from will bring some

from this. i will bring some more of your comments in though, before the programme. before the end of the programme. um, going go what am um, but i'm going to go what am i going to go? mental health or prisons? you what you prisons? what do you what do you want to about? prison. want to talk about? prison. pfison want to talk about? prison. prison oh, there you go. he's not back. mental health. is he? just awkward? you know just a bit awkward? you know what? prisons. what? let's just do prisons. we've talking about all we've been talking about all this let's kind of this stuff. let's. let's kind of stick you know what? stick on theme. you know what? i think 1 in prisons in think it's 1 in 10 prisons in this country now needs some kind of reform. apparently, they're not when it not fit for purpose when it comes pecking order comes to the pecking order of priority. where we need priority. is that where we need to focusing and spending

ed, in liverpool, you make a good point. actually you're talking about multiculturalism and you're saying, well, why? why does no one talk about that? batley grammar school teacher anymore? what happened him? anymore? what happened to him? anyone that thinks multiculturalism is working and a sitting here a lot of people sitting here saying does work well saying it does work well wherever why isn't he wherever did he go, why isn't he allowed return back to allowed to return safely back to his job? >> that's a shocker. that is a

particularly shocking case that batley that that that that teacher out , driven teacher was driven out, driven out of batley, driven out of his job, of his council job, driven out of his council flat actually, right to the point i happen to know this because i carried on following it especially through a friend of right. the truth about of his right. the truth about that, kid because i've that, that kid that because i've got prisons in a got to talk about prisons in a minute. hold on second. that minute. hold on a second. that family family today can't family that family today can't reveal where they came from, where their geography was or what their name is. and he hasn't got a job, as far as i know, in the education system anymore, driven out by a muslim mob is the truth. >> the one that i always remember. now i'm going off topic because i always remember that kid that had messed that school kid that had messed around quran or whatever around with a quran or whatever it then the more matter it was. and then the more matter put and she put a headscarf on and she addressed this as like, apologise. all very odd. apologise. it's all very odd. so that a very good point. that is a very good point. actually in liverpool that actually ed, in liverpool that you look, i'm you raised there, look, i'm going to try and squeeze on another topic before end of another topic before the end of the chief the programme. i'm the chief inspector basically inspector of prisons basically has 1 in 10 prisons in has said that 1 in 10 prisons in england and wales are barely fit for apparently

for purpose. apparently they should closed down. lots of should be closed down. lots of talk now about what we do about it. do we spend a fortune refurb doing do we need build doing them? do we need to build more prisons? >> what's your thoughts if you're to prisons, you're going to have prisons, they've to be safe. they've got to be safe. >> got to able to >> they've got to be able to contain the people, not just the prisoners, but the people who work there, the staff. obviously, it's not going to be a popular spending thing. >> the government's been in power when when you say if power when you when you say if we're to prisons, you we're going to have prisons, you wouldn't not suggesting wouldn't you're not suggesting that no, i'm not. >> but but if you are going to have places of detention in prisons, to be prisons, they need to be adequate in the same way as if you have schools and hospitals. they to be adequate. if you they need to be adequate. if you have courts buildings like have courts and buildings like that, need to adequate. that, they need to be adequate. if falling if these buildings are falling apart many of them are apart and many of them are victoria an and have got all sorts of , you know, sewage leaks sorts of, you know, sewage leaks and water leaks and everything else. but you know, there's not going to be any appetite with this government spend this government to spend any money should been money that should have been spent on keeping the you spent out on keeping the you know, the national estate is it is a difficult sell in,

is it quite a difficult sell in, though, you've a cost though, when you've got a cost of crisis, you've got of living crisis, you've got finances, public finances being squeezed here, there and everywhere as everywhere to come out as a government and say, right, okay, what now got what we're doing now has got this big spend programme, beanng this big spend programme, bearing time seem to bearing in mind the time seem to sort out the concrete in the schools. >> for example. but you know what we're do? we're what we're going to do? we're going set up this programme, going to set up this programme, um, spending prisons. um, of spending within prisons. would that a vote winner? would that be a vote winner? >> of course it wouldn't. but they have done it, you they could have done it, you know, ago, years know, ten years ago, 13 years ago. they've it. they've ago. they've left it. they've left. with the schools. left. same with the schools. they've to they've let everything go to rack and now they're rack and ruin, and now they're going, oh, well, we're not going to money prisons. to spend money on prisons. >> well, it's not all gone to rack and ruin, it? if 1 in 10 rack and ruin, is it? if 1 in 10 is not fit for purpose, that means 10 so they're means 9 in 10 are. so they're not all gone. >> so but to me, that's the shame that the number is not. 9 in 10 are in shocking state. i mean, like the idea. it mean, i like the idea. it cheered me up no end when i when i saw that that that they were in condition the in shocking condition and the rats for rats were fighting for domination there. of the domination in there. some of the people in those jails want to be in jail because they get three

meals day and all going meals a day and it's all going rather well. i would like them to rather bad shape, the to be in rather bad shape, the jails and remain in bad shape. and if there are sewage and if they if there are sewage leaks it leaks and water leaks, then it cheers no end. what cheers me up no end. but what about all kelvin, aren't you? well, should we worry about well, why should we worry about prisoners, it's prisoners, for god's sake? it's supposed somewhere where supposed to be somewhere where you've you've done you've gone because you've done something disgusting. i sit there sometimes read. read there and sometimes read. read those have those cases where people have gone they've gone to gone to jail. they've gone to jail four years. they've jail for four years. they've committed bodily harm, committed grievous bodily harm, attempted they've committed grievous bodily harm, attemptepeople's they've committed grievous bodily harm, attempte people's lives. "ve committed grievous bodily harm, attemptepeople'slives."ve go changed people's lives. they go in out in two in there, they're out in two years. know , they've got go years. you know, they've got go off prison. off to an open prison. everything's fine. like to everything's fine. i'd like to see have have some see them actually have have some kind equivalent to the kind of pain equivalent to the pain the people that they pain of the people that they they they beaten up in the first place. why is that a shocking thing to say , to say about thing to say, to say about somebody who actually has tried almost half kill somebody outside a pub on a friday night? thatis outside a pub on a friday night? that is not what everybody is in prison for. >> no, but a good chunk of them are vile. >> you know that as well as i do. >> do you know do you have any sympathy for those that are in

prison that are not vile? so, i don't say like a woman don't know, say like a woman that's been abused for the last don't know, say like a woman that decadesibused for the last don't know, say like a woman that decades bysed for the last don't know, say like a woman that decades by herfor the last don't know, say like a woman that decades by her abusive ast two decades by her abusive husband, that's finally, finally snapped, a bad snapped, you know, not a bad person, but just someone that's been pushed within their limits. what don't want what about those? you don't want those people. what about those? you don't want tho everybody who's pushed to >> everybody who's pushed to their up their limits doesn't end up knifing to death somebody. so i would are exceptions would say there are exceptions and seems to happen in and what seems to happen in these is finally these these cases is finally these people jail or people don't go to jail or they're in jail for a very short penod they're in jail for a very short period of so society has period of time. so society has got i actually have had got empathy. i actually have had an bypass, actually. an empathy bypass, actually. i'm pleased of the pleased that a load of the prisoners have a vile time. >> one of my viewers, joe paul, says our prisons are overcrowded. there is nothing to help just an help offenders. it's just an awful up exercise. why awful locking up exercise. why can anyone bothered about helping people get an education in helping them get back into society perhaps not society and then perhaps not re—offending? absolutely. re—offending? yeah, absolutely. >> mean , you know, the >> and i mean, you know, the whole about is it's whole point about it is it's supposed not just supposed to be not just punishment it's rehabilitation. punishment, it's rehabilitation. if people in appalling if you put people in appalling conditions, we know perfectly well that more people come out of prison worse , worse and more

of prison worse, worse and more likely to reoffend or get involved in worse crimes. and when they went in. so actually, if you have a criminal justice system that works now, let's see which which department does that come under ? i think it's the come under? i think it's the home secretary. well i'll tell you what. >> what about andy coulson? he ends up getting 18 months as the editor of the news of the world today. he's giving advice to the good the great, probably good and the great, probably £10,000 an so he's £10,000 an hour. so he's a perfect a prisoner perfect example of a prisoner who has done rather well in their lives. so i'm very pleased for andy because he's a friend of mine. >> rich has said, one of my viewers, rich says, my son is currently serving a two year sentence. and every time he fings sentence. and every time he rings me, it's simply to ask me for drug money. the for more drug money. he says the system is broken . dave says it's system is broken. dave says it's supposed to be prison, not a hotel. the clue is in the name. it shouldn't be appealing . harry it shouldn't be appealing. harry says if suella hates immigrants, so much as she seems to, why doesn't she invest in prisons and put people there as opposed

to hotels ? well, i mean, even to hotels? well, i mean, even i think you've even lost kelvin mackenzie . you've even lost. mackenzie. you've even lost. that's too soft , harry. you've that's too soft, harry. you've even lost kelvin mackenzie on that one, aren't he ? he's lost that one, aren't he? he's lost your kelvin auntie. well, he's ahead. >> he's ahead of the curve on me on that one. but i hadn't actually thought about that one. but it's not bad. is it a bad idea? it's giving you ideas. >> harry's giving you ideas as lots well are lots of people as well are making point about making that point about rehabilitation. all well rehabilitation. it's all well and good, punishing people to within of life. within an inch of their life. but if they're going but if all they're going to do is come out and mess is then come back out and mess around again and around the cycle more victims, cycle goes and more victims, then hasn't it? then it's failed, hasn't it? >> but they've been >> yeah, but they've been talking this. i talking about this. i mean, i have literally. i'm sorry. i'm so old. i've been listening to this argument now my life, this argument now all my life, and i've seen is crime grow, and all i've seen is crime grow, right? the idea, the reason you go jail is not actually so go to jail is not actually so that you come out with a phd. you there to be be have a you going there to be be have a rather life and rather horrible life and actually off from actually be sectioned off from society doing something society for doing something really sorry, go really vile and the sorry, go on, do you think you've set him

off now harry do you think is there part of you actually there a part of you actually that thinks, well, you know, prisons clearly not bad prisons are clearly not bad enough because they were, enough because if they were, then to then people would never want to go again. then people would never want to go but again. then people would never want to go but yetain. then people would never want to go but yet people reoffend, >> but yet people do reoffend, don't i think there are don't they? i think there are some desperate people for some very desperate people for whom provides roof, whom prison provides a roof, some routine and some some sort of routine and some sense of belonging. >> but think are people >> but i think those are people who are absolutely desperate . i who are absolutely desperate. i have i'm sure all of us have been inside prisons and worked in prisons . and, you know, we in prisons. and, you know, we know what they look like. they're not hotels . they're not hotels. >> well, no , they're not hotels. >> well, no, they're not hotels. but then i guess the argument would be and it's an argument for another day because i've only got about 20s left, but it's should the core purpose of prison be punishment or rehabilitation it be a rehabilitation or should it be a blend the two? which of the blend of the two? which of the two, any, take priority? you two, if any, take priority? you guys touch and tell me guys get in touch and tell me your thoughts. perhaps do your thoughts. perhaps i'll do that another but for that one. another day. but for now, mackenzie , thank you now, kelvin mackenzie, thank you very for your time. joe very much for your time. joe phillips as well. thank you for yours. know if we met

yours. i don't know if we met agreement at any point, did we? i don't know. i'm sure we'll carry on the conversation. but for now, future. yes, that's for now, the future. yes, that's all got time for. thank all we've got time for. thank you very much. don't go anywhere, richard tice. up next, the temperature's rising . the temperature's rising. >> boxt solar power sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello there and greg dewhurst. and welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. we have storm agnes on the way, bringing some very strong winds. some disrupt live weather, heavy rain in places to see so we can see that on the bigger picture, this deep area of low pressure will push across the uk as we head through wednesday. large coastal waves, some strong winds, particularly across the north and the west of the uk. heavy rain to this evening, fairly quiet out there. some clear spells remaining, showers gradually clearing as we head overnight. the cloud thickening from as that storm from the southwest as that storm approaches us. but places approaches us. but most places dry under the clear skies. northern ireland and scotland dipping into figures. but dipping into single figures. but for at 12 to 14 celsius to

for most at 12 to 14 celsius to take us into wednesday morning. so a dry start, but it won't take long before the cloud thickens. the wind picks up and the rain starts to move into western areas. this pushing north eastwards through day. north eastwards through the day. best on best of the sunshine holding on across scotland and also across north scotland and also south—east england. but could south—east england. but we could see of 70, possibly 80 see gusts of 70, possibly 80 miles an hour towards the north see gusts of 70, possibly 80 milethei hour towards the north see gusts of 70, possibly 80 milethe west, towards the north see gusts of 70, possibly 80 milethe west, combined1e north see gusts of 70, possibly 80 milethe west, combined with rth and the west, combined with heavy rain , will lead to some heavy rain, will lead to some disruption. risk warnings heavy rain, will lead to some disforce. n. risk warnings heavy rain, will lead to some disforce. cool risk warnings heavy rain, will lead to some disforce. cool feeling warnings heavy rain, will lead to some disforce. cool feeling day nings heavy rain, will lead to some disforce. cool feeling day here, in force. cool feeling day here, but in any sunshine, temperatures to around temperatures lifting to around 22 into thursday. that 22 celsius into thursday. that storm system moves out the way andifs storm system moves out the way and it's a mixture of sunny spells and showers across the north and the west. some heavy bursts possible elsewhere, generally some generally quite cloudy, some sunny and sunny spells in between. and then later on, rain arriving from the west as we end the week and go into the weekend, it looks like further showers are possible, perhaps

gb news and a very good evening. >> and yes, it's 7:00 and it's farage on gb news. but once again, i've been allowed back because nigel is still fishing and we have got a huge show ahead. and we have got a huge show ahead . we've got a look at the ahead. we've got a look at the reaction to the home secretary's speech in washington in which she. right. was she wrong? and as part of that speech, the second thing is, should you be granted being gay , granted asylum for being gay, for a woman? also we've for being a woman? also we've got to look at an extraordinary report about whether or not solar and wind could power the whole of the uk by 2050. seriously what happens when the wind doesn't blow? but first, the news with polly middlehurst i >> richard, thank you . good >> richard, thank you. good evening. the home secretary says migrant s arriving in small boats has put an unsustainable pressure on the uk's asylum system and the british taxpayer . delivering a speech in washington , suella braverman

washington, suella braverman also argued