doing. hs2 will be invested there instead . do you believe there instead. do you believe that you tell me. also, smoking is going to be phased out. is that a good health policy or the nanny state gone mad? and today there was lots of talk today about being tough on crime. and get this, the policing minister has suggested that you and i, the great british public, we need to start getting out there, getting more involved and starting to make citizens

arrests. would you do that ? oh, arrests. would you do that? oh, i really want to get into that. i'm fascinated to hear whether or not you actually would intervene and whether or not you would even know how to do a citizen's arrest . and if you're citizen's arrest. and if you're wondering where are the police, why can't they get involved? well, to be at well, half of them seem to be at lauren fox's house. lauren laurence fox's house. anyway, going to get anyway, we're going to get into all that. i also want to all of that. and i also want to know from tonight, rishi know from you tonight, rishi sunak introduced to the sunak was introduced to the stage the at the conference stage at the at the conference today by his wife. what about that? it great teamwork or that? was it great teamwork or just bit weird ? we've just a little bit weird? we've got all to come. but before got it all to come. but before we do that, let's grab tonight's latest news headlines as. michelle >> thank you and good evening to you. well, as you've been hearing, the prime minister has confirmed the northern leg of hs2 is being scrapped . speaking hs2 is being scrapped. speaking after weeks of speculation , after weeks of speculation, rishi sunak told the conservative party conference in manchester that he's ready to make tough decisions for the country and he's defended the move, saying the money will be

better spent developing projects in the north and the midlands. hs2 will still run from london. euston but current management will no longer be responsible, he said . he said. >> we will reinvest it every single penny. £36 billion in hundreds of new transport projects in the north and the midlands across the country . midlands across the country. this means £36 billion of investment in the projects that will make a real difference across our nation . across our nation. >> well, the former prime minister, david cameron , has minister, david cameron, has criticised that announcement, saying that a once in a lifetime opportunity has been lost and the mayor of greater manchester, andy burnham, has also said the new investment plan doesn't create a coherent network when money is given to projects. >> you want to support those projects , but the question is do projects, but the question is do they form a coherent int'l transport plan? because if you to make the most out of investment, you've got to make

sure it all it all knits together and it makes a coherent network. and i don't think this plan does that . they've plan does that. they've localised what was a coherent plan and we've now got to try and kind of make sense of the good bits and work together with other mayors and leaders across the north to turn it into something will actually the north to turn it into somefong will actually the north to turn it into somefor us. will actually the north to turn it into somefor us. well ill actually the north to turn it into somefor us. well the ctually the north to turn it into somefor us. well the mayor of work for us. well the mayor of the west midlands, andy street, says the new plan is a great compromise . compromise. >> so obviously i'm very disappointed that he announced that today. as you know, i fought for it to be maintained. i think fought hard valiantly on behalf of my region. so, of course, disappointed . but course, disappointed. but remember, the line is going to run from euston to handsacre, where it will join the west coast main line. so compared to what could have happened, this is a good compromise position well away from hs2. >> in his speech , the prime >> in his speech, the prime minister also reaffirmed his commitment to stop small boats crossing the english channel. >> our new law will ensure that

if you come here illegally , you if you come here illegally, you will be detained and swiftly removed. now, i am confident that once flights start going regularly to rwanda, the boats will stop coming . just look at will stop coming. just look at how our returns agreement with albania has seen the numbers coming from there. fall by 90. i am confident that our approach complies with our international obugafions complies with our international obligations , but know this obligations, but know this i will do whatever is necessary to stop the boats. well a raft of other policies were also announced in rishi sunaks keynote speech, which lasted nearly an hour . nearly an hour. >> more on education. he said he'd bring together a—levels and t levels to create a new advance british standard with students studying five separate subjects . he also said he's going to bnng . he also said he's going to bring fonnard measures to restrict the available of vapes to children. an ad he proposed raising the smoking age now away

from the tory party conference. the countess of chester hospital is under investigation for corporate manslaughter . it corporate manslaughter. it follows lucy letby murder convictions. the former nurse jailed for life after killing seven babies and attempting to murder six others at the hospital's neonatal unit. cheshire constabulary has confirmed it will be focusing on the period between june 2015 and 2016, when it says it's considering investigating areas , including senior leadership , , including senior leadership, to determine whether or not any criminal had taken place . a criminal had taken place. a british army investigation believes a 19 year old soldier who took her own life after relentless sexual harassment by one of her bosses , royal one of her bosses, royal artillery gunner james beck was found dead at larkhill camp in wiltshire in december 2021. a report describes an intense penod report describes an intense period of unwelcome behaviour and says it's almost certain this was a causal factor in her

death. and a murder investigation has been launched after a dog believed to be an xl bully killed a man in sunderland last night. police responded just before 7 pm. following reports a dog had injured a 54 year old and a 44 year old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder. the dog was destroyed at the scene. a second dog has been seized and a sixth person has been arrested in connection with the crooked house pub fire in staffordshire . a 23 year old in staffordshire. a 23 year old man from leicestershire was arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit arson with intent. he's been released on conditional bail while the investigation continues . four investigation continues. four men and a woman were previously arrested in connection with the fire that destroyed the iconic pub in august last year with gb news across the uk on tv , in news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. this is britain's news channel .

news channel. >> thanks for that, polly and michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me. richard tice the leader of the reform party and peter edwards, a former editor of labourlist. good evening to both of you gentlemen . an you know the drill gentlemen. an you know the drill as well, don't you? it's not just about us three. it is very much about you guys at home as well. so what's on your mind tonight? you can get in touch with all usual ways. with me all the usual ways. vaiews@gbnews.com is how your email you tweet at email me or you can tweet me at gb of course, the gb news. now of course, the story again dominating the headunes story again dominating the headlines , the ainnaves, of headlines, the ainnaves, of course, the tory party conference over in manchester, its final day today and rishi sunak, of course, dom donating the stages. we've just been heanng the stages. we've just been hearing his speech for about an hour. hearing his speech for about an hour . many hearing his speech for about an hour. many people are making lots of kind of noise about how how his speech was actually introduced. i'll show you who introduced. i'll show you who introduced him . introduced him. >> she and i are each other's best friends . we're one team and

best friends. we're one team and i could not imagine being anywhere else but here today . anywhere else but here today. >> yeah, there you go. very sweet. that was his wife. she took to the stage. she gave quite the performance, actually saying about, as you just said, her friend and talking her best friend and talking about how they've met and their daughters and their and daughters and their family and the teamwork all the rest of the teamwork and all the rest of it. fascinating stuff . but it. very fascinating stuff. but has got any place on a has it got any place on a political stage? you tell me, richard, did you make to richard, what did you make to that? >> actually, i thought it was great. that great. i thought it shows that they're a strong team. and look, being politics really being in politics is really difficult. it's brutal. it's tough. and someone , you tough. and having someone, you know, a close partner by your side, i thought it was it showed real strength and all credit to us. not easy going up on a stage like that. i thought it was i thought it was a good opener. good intro for him. and yeah, all credit to him. >> warm words from richard. peter, do you agree with that? i quite like it because all politicians are human beings and we argue about policy

we can argue about the policy and substance we're and the substance that we're going to do in a moment. >> but to just remind everyone, listening there is listening at home, if there is anyone listening at home that these human what these are human beings, what do you there's anyone listening >> if there's anyone listening that's tory that's outrageous. tory conference. are one the conference. we are one of the fastest growing. a fastest growing. that's a reference tory conference. >> was a reference tory >> that was a reference to tory conference with head. conference with his head. >> go on. >> go on. >> that was a reference tory conference, not to your show. so i think it's a good thing because it shows the human side of know, we'll of anyone and you know, we'll argue policies, but argue about the policies, but politicians terrible politicians do get terrible abuse. but the i'd make is abuse. but the point i'd make is actually whether actually the spouse, whether male female , tends to come on male or female, tends to come on stage leader is losing stage when the leader is losing or in polls . or behind in the polls. >> i think that gordon brown's wife, and she wife, she did the same and she did great. >> she did great. and i think theresa may's husband, philip may , made 1 or 2 interventions. may, made 1 or 2 interventions. i can't remember were at i can't remember if they were at party but it's party conference, but it's generally a sign when a leader is the back foot. is on the back foot. >> well, again, i am a lone voice on this panel because i thought very sweet and thought it was very sweet and it's to have it's wonderful to have a supportive partner. and yes, if you're in a team and all the

rest of it, but i personally thought it was a little bit weird. your of having weird. your wife kind of having to talk for you. i just to do this talk for you. i just thought like, it's like thought it was like, it's like your mum going into school and like, don't know, sticking up like, i don't know, sticking up for you because you're not doing a good job something. a good job or something. i personally thought it was a little you can be little bit odd, but you can be the final judge of that. let's get into the main thrust of it, though, of the though, because one of the key things found fascinating things that i found fascinating today speech today from rishi's actual speech was of the political was the state of the political system in this country. let's listen system in this country. let's list the feeling that westminster system in this country. let's lisa the feeling that westminster system in this country. let's lisa broken .ing that westminster system in this country. let's lisa broken systemt westminster system in this country. let's lisa broken system and stminster system in this country. let's lisa broken system and stmisame is a broken system and the same goes for holyrood cardiff bay and stormont. it is an anger , and stormont. it is an anger, it's an exhaustion with politics in particular politicians saying things and then nothing ever changing . and you know what? changing. and you know what? people are right again , i have people are right again, i have a puzzled look on my face because sometimes when i'm listening to the stages today and previous days on the tory party conference, i do find myself asking the same question . asking the same question. >> but you've been in power for

the last, what is it, 13 years? and some people on these stages over the last couple of days have been talking as though they've literally only just walk and walked to that stage and grasp power for the first time. and know rishi has only and yes, i know rishi has only just become prime minister, but notwithstanding that the tories have control for have had the control for a decade plus anyway. think decade plus anyway. do you think the political is broken? the political system is broken? yeah, do. yeah, i do. >> and think but it is >> and i think but it is laughable that it comes from a conservative native leader. there party's been in charge for 13 years. he's been in the cabinet for about three and a half years. and being responsible for much of the catastrophe that we face. catastrophe that we now face. what we need actually is proportional representation so what we need actually is prop everyal representation so what we need actually is prop every vote)resentation so what we need actually is prop every vote counts rtion so what we need actually is prop every vote counts ,ion so what we need actually is prop every vote counts , every that every vote counts, every vote is equal, and then you get far democratic engagement . far more democratic engagement. that's the real reason that politics is broken this politics is so broken in this country, because too many country, because for too many people, their vote doesn't count. they don't get listened to. this two to. you've got to in this two party system , you've too party system, you've got too many seats and there's many safe seats and there's a lack of competition, lack of lack of competition, a lack of new entrants. and i think that's what the majority of the country

wants. i think we should wants. and i think we should have referendum pr as soon have a referendum on pr as soon as which combat as possible, which shall combat you but peter, do you agree? >> but peter, do you agree? >> but peter, do you agree? >> i it shows the >> i think it shows the difficulties of running as a change candidate you've change candidate when you've beenin change candidate when you've been in government so long change candidate when you've beerrishiovernment so long change candidate when you've beerrishi sunak|ent so long change candidate when you've beerrishi sunak is|t so long change candidate when you've beerrishi sunak is very so long change candidate when you've beerrishi sunak is very young,| and rishi sunak is very young, he's very energetic he's he's very energetic and he's quite it's the quite intelligent, but it's the buy in that will be above and beyond conference in the beyond party conference in the year election where year before the election where he's about he's saying, i'm all about changing the country. but every time he mentions that a journalist someone on journalist or someone on doorstep say here are the doorstep will say here are the things that your government has done. agree with. and done. i don't agree with. and that's with that's why he's ended up with the policies today, which are the policies of today, which are kind their tweaks or kind of their tweaks or cancellations hs2 and cancellations around hs2 and a—levels not radical a—levels. they're not radical reforming said reforming gestures. and he said politics broken . well, i politics is broken. well, i mean, a bit of an empty mean, that's a bit of an empty statement. he didn't how statement. but he didn't say how he'd it. he'd fix it. >> this pr thing. he'd fix it. >> this pr thing . i mean, we had >> this pr thing. i mean, we had a referendum in 2011 and it was i think i've got the stats here, actually, in terms of who voted and the outcome. the final result was yes to pr, we only got 32. it was no to pr, so it was to keep keep the same. yes, same system. yeah. yeah. the yes

vote was 32% and the no vote was 67.9. so people ovennhelmingly rejected proportional representation . representation. >> but that was a long time ago. michelle politics and the country was in a very different place then and it was a it was a pr system, frankly , i don't pr system, frankly, i don't think people wanted either . and think people wanted either. and i think, frankly, if you've got a big question like that every 15 years, you should re—ask the question. and i think that more and people recognise that and more people recognise that this party system is this two party system that is supposed bring us a strong, supposed to bring us a strong, stable government actually stable government has actually brought exactly the opposite. brought us exactly the opposite. it's brought us chaos in competent government and what we needis competent government and what we need is we need new entrants, we need is we need new entrants, we need more people to get need far more people to get involved in the democratic debate. here's key thing. debate. here's the key thing. >> but pr, the pr, the >> but the pr, the pr, the pushback people will be pushback to that, people will be saying, talking saying, well, you're talking about chaos. you're going to probably coalitions. probably see more coalitions. there's probably more chaos under pr system almost every under a pr system almost every developed nation has some form of pr. >> the only other country in europe that has first past the post, bella is not great company and the average turnout under pr

is 10% higher. that's another 3 million people in the uk that would feel it's worth getting involved in the democratic process. and i think all of us who support and treasure democracy , we should we should democracy, we should we should absolutely enhance that. and it encourages new ideas, new people, disruptors. and that's a good thing for democracy . good thing for democracy. >> and so i'm sure at the last labour party conference, correct me if i'm wrong, there was a motion put there and ovennhelmingly, as i understand it, labour members voted in favour of having pr would be one of would you support that? of them. would you support that? >> it's a bit of a >> i think it's a bit of a quagmire. i see a labour leaderships generally not leaderships have generally not been pr and been in favour of pr and obviously if you're one of the two parties, you're two biggest parties, you're running you wouldn't two biggest parties, you're runnito you wouldn't two biggest parties, you're runnito let you wouldn't two biggest parties, you're runnito let in you wouldn't two biggest parties, you're runnito let in without| wouldn't two biggest parties, you're runnito let in without wishing 't want to let in without wishing to be rude. the smaller guys over fringe parties. over here, the fringe parties. but members are but yeah, labour members are increasingly of pr increasingly in favour of pr but bear mind, when we had the bear in mind, when we had the referendum which was think referendum which was i think 11 or years that was not or 12 years ago, that was not for pr, that was for for pure pr, that was for a particular strand. and without getting down that now getting bogged down in that now the alternative alternative vote. exactly. it wasn't for pure but i think it's worth

pure pr, but i think it's worth having debate, but not having that debate, but not right now . now, because we've right now. now, because we've got cost living crisis. we got cost of living crisis. we got cost of living crisis. we got a war in europe record nhs. >> never a good time. >> there's never a good time. you've got to challenge this stuff. and the thing stuff. and here's the thing about always lead about this. i will always lead to devolved to coalition wales devolved assembly pr assembly is elected under pr scotland. holyrood is elected under pr, you've had the snp dominating for a decade. you've had labour dominating for 20 years in labour. so it doesn't necessarily need you if that's what the people want, that's what the people want, that's what they'll get. so actually that completely trashes the idea that completely trashes the idea that it will always lead to coalition. not quite right. >> very briefly, in scotland, right. >> snp briefly, in scotland, right. >> snp rely ily, in scotland, right. >> snp rely on in scotland, right. >> snp rely on the cotland, right. >> snp rely on the support of the snp rely on the support of the snp rely on the support of the greens to a tiny degree, but they've controlled holyrood for at least ten years, if not 15. >> so i think actually sort >> so i think that actually sort of completely kibosh his of just completely kibosh his the that it always leads to the idea that it always leads to a coalition but is it ever really going happen? really going to happen? >> say i don't >> because say like i don't know, labour win well before know, say labour win well before you've your you've even won in your manifesto, if you put pr labour surely not benefit from surely would not benefit from that. if you have a pr referendum erm at the next

election. so not the first one, you're going to get elected in the next one, labour would lose seats to that and so would the tories. >> well i'd be really surprised if it was in a labour manifesto this time around. say labour did get elected as you mentioned, the party members seem to be turning a bit more in favour of pr, don't rely purely on conference because that's the system of delegates. it's not hundreds thousands of labour hundreds of thousands of labour members. into members. but if labour got into power there'd be big power i think there'd be a big internal debate and internal debate about pr and it's possible it might four it's possible that it might four years down the track, pop up in the but don't, the manifesto. but, but don't, don't movement don't expect to see a movement in next 12 months. i'd be in the next 12 months. i'd be amazed wasn't. amazed if there wasn't. >> that's what i mean. so then how would that proposition? >> because >> quite easily because if labour have a very small working majority they have majority or if they have some form another form of coalition with another party, say, for example, party, let's say, for example, the it will in the the lib dems, it will be in the lib dems manifesto and the same way it'll be in our manifesto and, then it's part of the and, and then it's part of the negotiating that's negotiating leverage and that's how came about negotiating leverage and that's how time came about negotiating leverage and that's how time because came about negotiating leverage and that's how time because theame about negotiating leverage and that's how time because the lib about negotiating leverage and that's how time because the lib dems. last time because the lib dems demanded it as part of the coalition with the conservatives back 2010. back in 2010.

>> optimistic >> you're very optimistic because you have to be because i just you have to be optimistic in politics. optimistic to be in politics. i'm not sure that can ever i'm not sure that i can ever imagine because the imagine a scenario because the two people that could put two main people that could put that referendum is that referendum to us, it is literally against best literally against their best interests that. i just interests to do that. so i just i know you're saying about i know what you're saying about oh, you can have this oh, yeah, you can have this coalition and all the rest of it, i just maybe i'm being it, but i just maybe i'm being pessimistic also as well. he was not talking about potential not just talking about potential . well, he talking about . well, he wasn't talking about pr actually, as i was pr at all, actually, as i was talking and if we talking about that. and if we didn't go down the pr route, how else you political else could you fix the political system country ? system in this country? >> it's a really good question. and think people are sick and i think what people are sick and of actually is and tired of actually is politicians saying politicians standing up saying they're something they're going to do something and then not doing it. so the tories have every manifesto. for the 13 years they've said the last 13 years they've said they're going to reduce immigration done immigration and they've done exactly so exactly the opposite. and so people and more people get more and more disheartened. that's disaster disheartened. that's a disaster for because people for democracy because people either voting, say it's either give up voting, say it's not worthwhile. and that's that's an absolute tragedy. so and take today he's talked about changing the a—level system and t levels. look at the detail ten

years down the track. he's going to be long gone. not i mean , to be long gone. not i mean, there's abandonment there's a complete abandonment of ambition. you want to of any ambition. if you want to do get on it. do something, get on with it. don't wait ten years to change something. you agree with that? >> a—level reform is only for part of the united kingdom, i.e. england only. i don't think will make much difference on the doorstep. it's baffling why it's ten years time and i'm not sure it's going to change educational standards. and it goes back to my know want to wrap up, my i know you want to wrap up, but first which is but my first point, which is where's story from rishi where's the story from rishi sunak speech? it's bits and bobs here there that don't add up here and there that don't add up to very much. here and there that don't add up to \well,|uch. my viewers, >> well, one of my viewers, james, said, please, can you james, has said, please, can you ask the following ask richard the following question? if he thinks we should re—ask questions pr re—ask the big questions like pr every also every 15 years, does he also apply that to eu membership? does think we should does he think we should have another on another referendum on eu membership in 2031? >> have problem. >> i would have no problem. after 15 and 20 years. and as long job's been done long as the job's been done properly the interim, we properly in the interim, we would win absolute would win it by an absolute landslide. no doubt at all. >> so if you do indeed get elected, then you will be

campaigning for a second referendum. >> first of all, we'll do brexit properly and the country properly and then the country will grateful and it will be hugely grateful and it just be an issue. will be hugely grateful and it jusithey be an issue. will be hugely grateful and it jusithey go,> an issue. will be hugely grateful and it jusithey go, james, ue. that >> they go, james, did that answer your question? get in touch. after the break. touch. tell me after the break. we've been speculating for we've been speculating now for some about hs2. some weeks probably about hs2. we the answer , the we finally know the answer, the northern to manchester has northern leg to manchester has indeed been scrapped . the indeed been scrapped. the northern network will take its place. what do you make to that? get in touch. you tell me

>> this is gb news radio. >> this is gb news radio. >> hi there. i'm michelle dewberry till 7:00 richard tice a leader of the reform party alongside me, as is peter edwards , a former editor of the edwards, a former editor of the labourlist . you guys have been labourlist. you guys have been getting in touch . debbie says. getting in touch. debbie says. oh, come on, michelle, what's the matter with rishi's the matter with you? rishi's wife did a fabulous job introducing her husband. it was not weird at all, she says. in fact , actually it was a not weird at all, she says. in fact, actually it was a nice personal insight to rishi, and it's made debbie warm to rishi

even more than he did. richard said, michelle, can you stop being so cold and so cynical, please? it was a lovely human touch for rishi's wife to introduce him. barbara says yes, rishi's wife was great. gordon brown. gordon brown's wife. did the same, but that didn't end well at all. and joe says, michelle, i'm with you . yes, michelle, i'm with you. yes, i am a conservative, but i found sunaks wife's appearance odd and a little bit weird. well that one divides opinion. it's weird, isn't it? the things that get people talking. lots of responses. well, on that pr one, and i'll bring you into that conversation in a couple of minutes. now, listen, we minutes. but for now, listen, we finally the answer we finally got the answer that we were wondering about the hs2 and whether not northern leg whether or not that northern leg up would be up to manchester would be scrapped. have to scrapped. let's have a listen to what to say . what he had to say. >> reinvest every single >> we will reinvest every single penny. £36 billion in hundred pounds of new transport projects in the north and the midlands across the country . we this

across the country. we this means £36 billion of investment in the projects that will make a real difference across our nafion real difference across our nation . nation. >> see hs2 really does divide a lot of people and he's come in. it's like he's if he does and if he doesn't really, because there's some people that just you've said you're going to do it, so stick to what you're doing and just do it, whatever the cost and all the rest of it. then the side of people then the flip side of people will be like, look, if it doesn't make sense, then just get of my viewers is get rid. one of my viewers is asking, can you ask peter if labour the next election, labour win the next election, would they reinstate that northern would they reinstate that nor i |ern would they reinstate that nori believe labour >> i believe not. and labour leadership relatively mixed leadership had relatively mixed messages till today. messages on that up till today. personally i was agnostic. there's no way. i believe they've not said there's only been a few hours, but there's no way i'd be amazed, ed, if labour came out tomorrow and said they'd bring back hs2 to manchester because it's a massive spending massive infrastructure spending commitment. the money's been reallocated. and remember, labour biggest labour is labour's biggest commitment up to the commitment is to work up to the 28 a year green 28 billion a year on green spending. so labour aren't going to tomorrow to contradict this tomorrow morning, come they've not

morning, so how come they've not come championing what come out then championing what he celebrating and he said and celebrating it and high his policy ? high fiving his new policy? >> well, it's interesting. >> well, it's interesting. >> talk for a minute >> can we talk for a minute about the media management of this? traditionally the other this? so traditionally the other party your party goes quiet when your rivals having party rivals are having their party conference for exactly that reason. whatever you reason. you think whatever you say be drowned out by say will just be drowned out by the prime minister the noise of the prime minister or leader of the opposition. or the leader of the opposition. my is this that my other puzzle is this that rishi sunak it could be his only conference as party leader, depending election depending on when the election is later and tories is it later lose and the tories have been slick in terms of have been very slick in terms of the back but they go the back office, but they go into week with their into this week with their number one in manchester about one story in manchester about scrapping a railway to manchester and that was leaked out last week. so the top line of his speech today was something that upsets the north and we've known about for a week. i mean, you have to be highly questioning how that ends up being top story today, we're in manchester scrapping a scheme to manchester and it's a week old. let's listen to andy burnham . burnham. >> his response, does this country have the will within it

to actually prioritise the north of england and sort out its transport problems? >> does this country have it within it to stop treating people here in the north as second class citizens when it comes to transport and put them at the front of the queue rather than the back of the queue when it comes to investment, these are still open questions and they've been answered by the they've not been answered by the prime minister today. >> i and i would answer >> see, i and i would answer andy's question by saying no, actually i don't think the government are up in government are headed up in westminster. does have the will to prioritise these the north. and i know by the way, there'll be loads of at home be loads of people at home saying calling manchester saying stop calling manchester the north. because the north. michelle because to them i hear them it's the midlands. i hear you. actually think you. but do you actually think this billion, they're going this £56 billion, they're going to what they they will to do what they say they will and actually hundreds these and actually hundreds of these wonderful going wonderful new projects are going to speed up, quicken up, to kind of speed up, quicken up, connect north. connect the north. >> look once again. actually, the copying the tories are copying half of a reform policy because we said in june 2019, as the brexit party, you should scrap the whole of hs2 and spend £50 million now listed out. even the london

birmingham. absolutely. and i listed out dozens of projects in the midlands and the north. that should be done. they should have listened to me rather than listened to me then rather than waste tens billions of waste tens of billions of pounds, scrap the pounds, you should scrap the existing poor good existing one. never. poor good money. the money. after the bad. the existing from to existing scheme from houston to a suburb of birmingham that no one's ever heard of. frankly is useless. it'll be far too expensive. achieve expensive. it won't achieve what's necessary. and i still think that they will delay and prevaricate on these projects in the north. and they've got to accelerate that and properly go for it. >> do you think there's enough political kind workings political kind of workings together? of the together? because one of the things worries me is that things that worries me is that you'll hear about like you'll hear about people like andy stuff saying andy burnham and stuff saying we're in this, we're barely consulted in this, of because he's the of course, because he's in the opposition. and kind of think opposition. and i kind of think there's a of me and yes, i there's a part of me and yes, i understand how politics works and understand government and yes, i understand government versus opposition . but on some versus opposition. but on some of these things really are of these things that really are going to impact people's lives for and decades to come, for decades and decades to come, i there was a lot more i wish that there was a lot more cross—party working. do you think that's really stick? do you just think i'm away with the

fairies wanting? >> no, no, i don't think we'll have the fairies too. i think it's a very good question. i mean, in leeds and mean, i've lived in leeds and york carlisle, england's york and carlisle, england's most northerly town, and transport infrastructure is a real and it's worse. real problem and it's worse. further north you get in cumbria, particularly george osborne's was this kind osborne's big idea was this kind of alliance, this of northern alliance, this northern partnership . and after northern partnership. and after leaving up leaving office, he set up a think tank. but that was 6 or 7 years ago. and since then there seems decelerate seems to have been a decelerate of progress and fallings out among borough leaders in the north. and then between people like andy burnham, who's a regional mayor with greater powers because of osborne having a fall out with central government. and not all of this is about left right dividing lines. it's about the detail of execution in and delivery and infrastructure commitments, allen says . allen says. >> i live in the north of england and i think scrapping hs2 is a sound idea. the opportunities to improve transport in the north now will be much more benefit able, tyron says. i'm glad it's been scrapped. one of the single best

improvements to the rail infrastructure in the north would be to electrify and increase capacity on the transpennine line and increase capacity. the whole way. >> that's what a lot of people in the north think. electrification from the east all the way across to manchester, that is hugely popular. >> but then i thought, popular. >> but then i thought , no, popular. >> but then i thought, no, this is when labour was in power. they didn't do that they didn't do much of that electric . electric electrification. >> they did do one. i think it might have been in yorkshire or the north east. i'm someone the north east. i'm sure someone will in and tell us, but i will write in and tell us, but i think electrification technology has in the has moved on enormously in the 15 years since. yeah, the 15 years since. yeah, it's the greatest thing. 15 years since. yeah, it's the gre holding1g. the is the >> holding back the north is the lack infrastructure from east lack of infrastructure from east to and up to newcastle and to west and up to newcastle and carlisle and places . it's carlisle and places. it's a disaster. anybody commuting up there knows just how bad getting a train from scarborough to manchester and many of these fun, these projects are fun, many of these projects are semi and should get semi oven ready and should get on them hard and fast. on with them hard and fast. >> who's this? ollie says. what about, do you reckon the government will tram government will build a tram line the river humber line across the river humber that and that links east yorkshire and lincolnshire ? he quite rightly. lincolnshire? he quite rightly. obviously you've got the humber

bridge, quite rightly bridge, but he quite rightly points out it's a nightmare to even get from a to b there and i would completely back you on that. but i ask you again, are you manchester when you you north of manchester when you hear us talking about the north? do you sit there screaming at your saying, what about your screen saying, what about us? your transport? how us? how is your transport? how do you think anyone actually takes you guys seriously? do you think need a little bit think you need a little bit more? touch and tell me. more? get in touch and tell me. vaiews@gbnews.com. after the break, talk to you break, i want to talk to you about cigarettes. do you think it's right that rishi sunak is basically phase them basically trying to phase them out? year old today will out? a 14 year old today will not ever be able to legally buy cigarettes. it's good health policy or nanny state gone mad. you tell me . there's help for households. are you over state pension age? if your weekly income is below £201.05, or £306.85 if you live with a partner, you could be eligible for pension credit, even if you own your home or have savings.

it's worth, on average, £3,500 a year, and you could get help with heating bills and more, plus cost of living payments.

believer that local live across the uk. >> this is gb news radio . >> this is gb news radio. >> this is gb news radio. >> hi there, i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me richard tice the leader of the reform party and peter edwards , a

party and peter edwards, a former editor of labourlist . and former editor of labourlist. and lots of you guys getting in touch again. you're really quite divided on this. who's to situation? sylvie says , can situation? sylvie says, can everyone who moans about hs2 being cancelled? can you tell them all to not worry? because apparently there are some people will say that conservatives are not get elected next not going to get elected next yean not going to get elected next year. so can leave it for year. so you can leave it for the labour party reintroduce the labour party to reintroduce use it. but as we've just been hearing, that hearing, i suspect that that will not be the case. neil says again, i'm a northerner and i see this as a win win situation . ian, you do believe that rishi and the rest of them will follow up with what they're saying and spend what? £36 billion on transport in the north? you're a trusting man. i'll give you that. now let's talk cigarettes, shall we? because is the age at which people can buy cigarettes and tobacco in england is basically only looking likely to be risen by one year every year they follow me. the essence will be that ultimately save your 14 year old kid. now, you would never be able to legally buy

cigarettes . i think he's nicked cigarettes. i think he's nicked this policy. rishi from new zealand, jacinda ardern that was something that they were into over there. but let's have a listen to what he had to say . listen to what he had to say. >> smoking places huge pressures on the nhs and costs our country . £17 billion a year. we have a chance to cut cancer deaths by a quarter since significantly ease those pressures and protect our children . and we should take it i >> see the number of people smoking is actually massively. i mean, when you look at any graph, it's such a stark decline in 20, 22, 13% there or thereabouts of people over the age of 18 smoked. it's rapidly declining. do we need this policy? >> of course not. i mean, this is this is sort of nanny state, not essence that people just don't don't need. it really is. and do you know what it'll do is it'll drive it underground. guess what'll happen if you're a 15 year old now and you can't buy cigarettes in 3 or 4 years

time, then you'll either pretend you're of a different age or you'll get your mates to buy it or maybe it'll increase the likelihood that go and smoke likelihood that you go and smoke drugs something else. that's drugs or something else. that's what happens and bury what happens if you try and bury something stop it. it'll go something and stop it. it'll go underground better to keep underground much better to keep banging the health message . it's banging the health message. it's bad for you, but actually, do you know what individual responsibility good thing responsibility is a good thing used a conservative thing, used to be a conservative thing, but now apparently nanny but now apparently not. no nanny knows but now apparently not. no nanny knolvs but now apparently not. no nanny knoi don't why anyone >> i don't know why anyone smokes. i think it's absolutely gross. i've lost my sense of smell. so i've not i've not been able to smell for a couple of years for a couple of years now. but i can always remember you smell great. don't worry. oh, thank you. yeah. good. i take your word for it, but i can always remember a particularly before in before they banned smoking in pubs, home from pubs, you would come home from a night out. you'd take your clothes next morning night out. you'd take your clotheyou next morning night out. you'd take your clotheyou pick next morning night out. you'd take your clotheyou pick your morning night out. you'd take your clotheyou pick your clothesg night out. you'd take your clotheyou pick your clothes up. when you pick your clothes up. they absolutely stank. and i've never anyone never understood why anyone would to would voluntarily choose to inhale smell like inhale this stuff. smell like that richard's point, that. but to richard's point, isn't it just a free choice? i think it's a good policy

actually. >> by rishi sunak today, because ijust >> by rishi sunak today, because i just think there isn't a case for allowing or even encouraging people to smoke. you know, i smoked a bit as a teenager at university and it's kind of a social thing. you pick it up, it's on around you, you it's going on around you, you join in. but i don't think this the policy announcement today, i don't think will be seen as contentious in ten years time. and your minds back about and cast your minds back about 15, 16 years to when labour banished smoking indoors in england and the scottish administration did the same. there was a big debate about that in the country and internally within the labour party, john said something party, john reid said something about it was a pleasure for working class folk. not working class folk. it's not contentious accepted. >> a retailer going to >> how's a retailer going to enforce ? someone who walks in enforce it? someone who walks in their 23, another person walks in their 25 and he has to say, can isee in their 25 and he has to say, can i see your id please, to check whether the 25 year old can a pack of and you, the can buy a pack of and you, the 23 old. no, you can't. it's ludicrous. >> that's what they now with >> that's what they do now with booze. exactly. >> that's what they do now with boo there actly. >> that's what they do now with boo there are y. >> that's what they do now with boothere are lots of age >> there are lots of age restricted products you're restricted products when you're in 20s. in your mid 20s. >> yeah, but they do.

>> yeah, but they do. >> so for example, i tried to buy, i don't know, paracetamol or to or whatever today the guy had to come over and check the contents that i had made sure i didn't have than two bags or have more than two bags or whatever was at my age whatever it was looked at my age when you buy knives a shop, when you buy knives in a shop, when you buy knives in a shop, when you buy knives in a shop, when you shouldn't be to when you shouldn't be able to buy knives a shop. but buy any knives in a shop. but people kitchen you people buy kitchen knives, you buy need a knife. buy knives if you need a knife. i'm not saying a zombie knife just a normal kitchen knife. there's on age wise there's restrictions on age wise on loads of products. >> but just think you're >> yeah, but i just think you're just increasing that role of just increasing that role of. of nanny state. you make it harder for the retailers and i just think drive it think you're going to drive it underground. if someone wants to smoke when they're in mid smoke when they're in the mid 20s their 30s in half a dozen 20s or their 30s in half a dozen years time, will find a years time, they will find a way. doing just way. all you're doing is just driving stuff underground. and i don't this stuff about don't buy all this stuff about it'll save the this and it'll save the nhs. this and that. the tax that. you've got the tax revenues it. yeah. if you revenues from it. yeah. if you want really brutal about want to be really brutal about it on the side of the it on the other side of the argument, you're foolish argument, if you're foolish enough all life, enough to smoke all your life, yes. know well that yes. you know full well that you're probably going to die early. >> what about vaping? because in 2023, so far, 20.5% 2023, apparently so far, 20.5% of have vaping. of children have tried vaping. how focusing on

that? >> it's a really good question and i do think there are real issues about vaping. but again, if of this stuff, if you ban all of this stuff, it'll underground. it'll just go underground. you've it more open, you've got to keep it more open, more aware . and with education more aware. and with education i think thing, as think that's the thing, as opposed just saying, nah, he opposed to just saying, nah, he knows about that and knows best about this, that and the other thing. >> i think richard's point is much more conceptual and ideological. i think richard's someone from the libertarian side who doesn't banning side who doesn't like banning things. i think on the specifics of this, there's no evidence that smoking will go underground. and think the underground. and i think the declining revenue of cigarette manufacturing will decline a much quicker rate . as any much quicker rate. as any economist will tell you, supply will go down, consumption will go down, demand will go down. i don't think we'll be driven underground. and i think richard's entitled to his view. but i it's much more just but i think it's much more just ideological. the libertarian side banning side doesn't like banning things, like me things, whereas people like me would trade off would say it's a trade off between our own liberty and government intervention. i'm government intervention. and i'm happy with this trade off because will save us. it will because it will save us. it will save our relatives. perhaps if smoking is pretty ghastly and it

will save the state money, where do you draw the line in terms of not stuff that would you not banning stuff that would you sit and right, well, sit there and say, right, well, heroin should legal heroin should be legal then? >> i think you have to you >> no, i think you have to you have to have an open, genuine debate about this stuff. but what know is the more you what you know is the more you ban, stuff goes ban, the more stuff goes underground. know how underground. you know how easy it for example, to get it is, for example, to get cannabis, and all the cannabis, marijuana and all the stuff yet can get stuff is banned. yet you can get it within. that do hasten it within. not that i do hasten to you sound very to add, but you sound very knowledgeable this i'm told, michelle, you can get it michelle, that you can get it very and very easy very quickly and exactly the same will happen with people with cigarettes if people want to they're their to smoke and they're in their 20s they're not allowed to, 20s and they're not allowed to, that's what they'll do. so i just think, yeah, ideologically i'm reduce the amount i'm trying to reduce the amount of that you ban. i think of things that you ban. i think it's wrong. but nevertheless, you've with education and you've got to with education and you've got to with education and you've to say, drugs you've got to say, look, drugs are you're much are bad for you. you're much more likely to get addicted and frankly up dead way early frankly end up dead way early with with drugs and people. with with hard drugs and people. i think no, the same with cigarettes. it's a it's a serious personal choice. >> would you legalise cannabis in? >> i think the country should have a open debate about

have a proper open debate about that. have a proper open debate about that . there problems that. there are huge problems with drugs , but we've got at the with drugs, but we've got at the moment we've got the we've got we've got your position in a debate. got worst of debate. we've got the worst of all worlds at the moment, which is 40 years we're fighting is for 40 years we're fighting a drugs and everybody knows drugs war and everybody knows we're so can't we're losing it. so you can't keep on something that you keep on doing something that you know failing. your know is failing. what would your position be if you having position be if you was having that position be if you was having tha where you sit on it? >> where would you sit on it? >> where would you sit on it? >> i'm actually at the moment, i'm i'm still quite i'm still i'm still quite undecided was quite undecided and i was quite thoughtful now thoughtful about it. i'm now very anxious it . but thoughtful about it. i'm now very anxious it. but i very anxious about it. but i think got to have think you've got to have a proper grown up national debate and let and actually maybe let the people rather than people decide rather than politicians ones. >> but mean, would >> but i mean, you would spend your having never ending referendum. >> i love referendums. we're quite them. michelle. we quite good at them. michelle. we tend them, but that's why tend to win them, but that's why they a referendum on they don't want a referendum on net it's why don't net zero. it's why they don't want a referendum on other stuff because once get there, because once they get there, they of things done in they get lots of things done in sweden in states in america sweden and in states in america where lots and lots of where they have lots and lots of referendums. where they have lots and lots of referen(then isn't it your job as >> but then isn't it your job as the politicians to actually make decisions for us rather than getting you've just you've just said and the

said at the beginning and the prime said politics is broken. >> why is it broken? because the politicians, politicians so politicians, politicians are so out touch people, out of touch with the people, trust more. ask them trust the people more. ask them more, them involved. trust the people more. ask them mo is them involved. trust the people more. ask them mo is thatthem involved. trust the people more. ask them mo is that what involved. trust the people more. ask them mo is that what you lved. trust the people more. ask them mo is that what you want you >> is that what you want you guys at home? how politically engaged sitting engaged are you? are you sitting there sign me up. there going, yes, sign me up. i want to the referendums. want to do all the referendums. you for will at me or do you sit there going, pack it in politicians. you you make the decisions. decide lots of decisions. you decide lots of you're in touch asking you're getting in touch asking a question. michelle, you're question. michelle, if you're going why don't going to ban smoking, why don't you alcohol as well? you ban alcohol as well? whoa there, whoa, that's what there, whoa, there. that's what i on, steady on. you i say. steady on, steady on. you can't my away from me, can't take my tea away from me, right? i can tell you there's a very interesting topic. up next, you, the public. you, me, members of the public. do we should be do you think we should be getting involved more in fighting crime? would you make a citizen's if you saw citizen's arrest if you saw something unfolding in front something bad unfolding in front of is suggestion of you? that is the suggestion from the policing minister. we'll into that after

break hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till seven richard

tice. peter edwards still alongside me. stewart says , alongside me. stewart says, michelle, just because you enjoyed a crafty behind the bike sheds doesn't mean that you should be encouraging today's youth to smoke. it's like the planet of the apes out there as it well first and foremost, it is. well first and foremost, i think ever had i don't think i've ever had a crafty behind the bike sheds, and i don't think i'm encouraging anyone to smoke, helen says. i'm 21, and i would say that 90% my friends vape say that 90% of my friends vape but of have ever tried but none of them have ever tried smoking. you think that the policy is ridiculous? simon says peter is a hypocrite . how come peter is a hypocrite. how come he was allowed to try smoking before he opted out? but if he had way, the youth would not had his way, the youth would not be even allowed to try it. and make own decisions . as make their own decisions. as michael michelle, you michael says. michelle, will you stop smokers ? i've stop attacking smokers? i've smoked since i was 14 years old and i've had no problems at all. it's not my policy . and i've had no problems at all. it's not my policy. i'm and i've had no problems at all. it's not my policy . i'm merely and i've had no problems at all. it's rjust1y policy . i'm merely and i've had no problems at all. it's rjust to policy . i'm merely and i've had no problems at all. it's rjust to debate i'm merely and i've had no problems at all. it's rjust to debate it] merely and i've had no problems at all. it's rjust to debate it. it'serely and i've had no problems at all. it's rjust to debate it. it's not' here just to debate it. it's not me up with these ideas . me coming up with these ideas. anyway, referendum anyway, on this referendum situation , paul said, what are situation, paul said, what are you going do next? a you going to do next? have a referendum having referendum about having referendums. don't put ideas

into his head. that's what i would say to you . who's this? would say to you. who's this? martin says , michelle, please, martin says, michelle, please, can you just let the politicians decide on our behalf? we don't need ongoing referendums. well again, that one is dividing opinions because. who's this phil ? he says, yes, yes, yes . in phil? he says, yes, yes, yes. in capital letters, he says, we could have. we could have a monthly referendum and we could all vote by app. cor blimey, can you imagine the states our country would be in then. i don't know if some of you might say being an even better state. keep your thoughts coming in now let me ask you this. if you saw a, i don't know, a shoplifter, something going on that shouldn't would in shouldn't be, would you step in and intervene, do a citizen's arrest? chris arrest? perhaps, because chris philip, the policing minister, he is basically called on retailers to ask people to get their security guards to intervene where safe as possible, as members of the public. perhaps we could be chipping in and doing citizen's arrests as well. what do you

make to it? yeah, actually, do you know what i think? >> if i saw a shoplifter, i'd like i would intervene like to think i would intervene and that's. you're breaking and say that's. you're breaking the no and stop it. i mean, the law. no and stop it. i mean, in an ideal world, that would tell richard you tell them richard tice you with your your family pack of cheddan >> you're breaking the law. stop it. okay? >> no, it's not that. when. >> no, it's not that. it's when. it's when you know, it's when they're, you know, taking loads taking off shelves, loads of stuff. feral gangs stuff. and these feral gangs have used. i think we've got to stop now in ideal world, stop it now in an ideal world, the would be there, the police would be there, would be and would be a be there and there would be a proper deterrent and people would illegal. but would know it's illegal. but here's the thing, michelle. it's because of police because the lack of police presence, lack the presence, complete lack of the justice away justice system, putting away shoplifters. people shoplifters. if people trusted the real the fact there was a real deterrent, then lot of this deterrent, then a lot of this nonsense, the shoplifting, the knife disappear knife crime would disappear should policing priority? >> should there be in shock, broken windows? >> absolutely should >> absolutely. you should have police the high streets, not police on the high streets, not behind desks , because behind their desks, because you've to have the of you've got to have the sort of new york broken window style policy where you have zero tolerance shoplifting , for tolerance for shoplifting, for graffiti, for antisocial behaviour . graffiti, for antisocial behaviour. yeah. and then that

actually if you deal with that, then you get a sense of respect and know if you're caught and people know if you're caught shoplifting, you're taken away, you're streets , you're you're off the streets, you're out, you're gone. and your mates too. you get respect too. then you get some respect and your mates to see and your mates. then your mates know that there's proper deterrent , there's a proper deterrent, there's a proper deterrent, there's a proper consequence to your illegal action. >> look at this. what i'm showing you on the screen. everyone, if you're listening, not my word for not watching, take my word for it. you're seeing it. right. what you're seeing is absolutely these absolutely disgusting. these are young people. sorry to young people. they are sorry to be rude, but they are like animals. of you animals. and then some of you will in touch saying don't will get in touch saying don't install animals. but don't install animals. but i don't know think you are. know who you think you are. they're into this shop. they're going into this shop. they're going into this shop. they're around on they're jumping around on whatever unit is whatever display unit is thinking they can nick whatever it is that they feel like grabbing and off they running grabbing and off they go running off guard there. i off the security guard there. i mean , you know, i don't mean to mean, you know, i don't mean to be him, he's not be rude to him, but he's not really doing much stopping of the people there. what do you make of it all? >> well, people of all ages commit crime. i wouldn't single out one demographic group like young people. i think my

young people. but i think my worry is a couple of things. >> first, the pensioners are going display going out and jumping on display units and trying to nick plasma screens. >> i agree it's unlikely, but but but one video doesn't amount to a whole. that's not. to a whole. oh, that's not. >> on, come on, peter. >> oh, come on, come on, peter. >> oh, come on, come on, peter. >> it's all over the place. everybody's seeing it in every high in the country. it's high street in the country. it's a disaster for. high street in the country. it's a dyeah,�* for. high street in the country. it's a dyeah, shoplifting is >> yeah, shoplifting is increased. but increased. that's a fact. but i'm i've idea which i'm saying i've no idea which demographic carries out most. anyway, about what? demographic carries out most. anywe actually about what? demographic carries out most. anywe actually a about what? demographic carries out most. anywe actually a bottom what? we're actually a bottom dollar. >> not pensioners. >> it's not the pensioners. >> it's not the pensioners. >> oh, of course not. >> oh, well, of course not. anyway, let's talk about what we're going to about it. so i we're going to do about it. so i think we'd like to be have think we'd all like to be have a go. heroes and if we see someone breaking the law, we'd all like to intervene. that's perfectly reasonable. clip reasonable. but as your clip showed well. reasonable. but as your clip sho oh, well. reasonable. but as your clip shooh, do well. reasonable. but as your clip shooh, do you well. reasonable. but as your clip shooh, do you think you are he's >> oh, do you think you are he's opening bag. everyone, if opening a bag. everyone, if you're watching, you're listening, not watching, he's hold old thing. he's got like a hold old thing. my eyesight. i've got four eyes. i'm looking at and i can't i'm looking at this and i can't see what those items are, but it's in fridge and it's in a fridge picking and choosing whatever he wants, filling with look at him. >> but michelle, would it be fair to say that shoplifting, which is often covert, is kind

of within i would of over within seconds? i would imagine quietly in imagine if you're quietly in a supermarket shopping supermarket doing your shopping and kerfuffle and and there's a kerfuffle and someone the whole someone running off, the whole incident be over 30 or incident could be over in 30 or 60s i suspect people are going incident could be over in 30 or 6c be suspect people are going incident could be over in 30 or 6cbe preoccupied.|le are going incident could be over in 30 or 6cbe preoccupied. but re going incident could be over in 30 or 6cbe preoccupied. but takening incident could be over in 30 or 6c be preoccupied. but take a g to be preoccupied. but take a step back to the actual politics. know, david politics. you know, david cameron, if in 2010 he said, oh, we're having austerity, we we're cutting closing cutting spending, we're closing police it's police stations, but it's all right you can the right because you can do the arresting yourselves. i think we'd our head off we'd have laughed our head off that , wouldn't we? that that, wouldn't we? >> well, i bet you know, i bet there's a segment of society out there's a segment of society out there that quite like to there that would quite like to get involved, actually, that would joining would quite like joining the police, it yourself. >> no, actually, no. >> no, actually, no. >> but this has been you can have citizen's arrest. it's have a citizen's arrest. it's been the law since, i think, 1967, actually. know 1967, actually. do you know what? it's a bit of a what? i think it's a bit of a sort of a social community thing. you want your community, your high street, your local folk you want folk to feel safe. you want these that are doing these scumbags that are doing this, and want them this, stealing and you want them actually the actually to feel the consequences actions. consequences of their actions. what we've got we've got, again, nanny state. if you touch someone no, someone that's an assault. no, if you're breaking the law, if you're stealing, you're thieving, feel thieving, someone might feel

your you your shoulder and, you know, frankly, have to frankly, people have got to understand that communities up and country are sick and down this country are sick and down this country are sick and tired of it. we don't want it. and we want it sorted. >> but would you sort it? that is million dollar question is the million dollar question that like that i'm asking, because i like to i mean, i put to think that i mean, i put myself in the way of stuff that i perhaps shouldn't do, but since become mum, i do since i've become a mum, i do sit now and i think sit there now and i think because a very a strong because i've got a very a strong sense of right and wrong and i don't like to see people doing what's, you know, criminally wrong rest of it. wrong and all the rest of it. but there a small part but then there is a small part of me now that actually, of me now that goes, actually, michel, got a little boy, of me now that goes, actually, micyes, got a little boy, of me now that goes, actually, micyes, you got a little boy, of me now that goes, actually, micyes, you can ot a little boy, of me now that goes, actually, micyes, you can rescue tle boy, of me now that goes, actually, micyes, you can rescue thatoy, so, yes, you can rescue that pack cathedrals sitting in pack of cathedrals sitting in your tesco, but might your local tesco, but you might not home your son as a not get home to your son as a result. if you get stabbed. and i that this is in people's i think that this is in people's minds now because people seem to be getting more be anyway getting more and more violent. to be, you. violent. they seem to be, you. no at all pulling no qualms at all about pulling out knife and stabbing you. out a knife and stabbing you. and on the flip side, you do and if on the flip side, you do decide, actually, i'm not having this, i'm going get hold of this, i'm going to get hold of him. if you dare somebody him. if you dare touch somebody in wrong way, within two in the wrong way, within two minutes, they're running off to whoever that

whoever it is saying that they've been assaulted by you. >> exactly. and so those sort of what assault what i call pathetic assault laws, , need reassessing, laws, frankly, need reassessing, because you committing because if you are committing a crime, if it's on video, it's clear as day. and then frankly, you're suffer the you're going to suffer the consequences. the consequences. and here's the point crime. again point about knife crime. again one you should be one strike and you should be taken away for 4 or 5 years, locked up. and guess what? knife crime, are full. build crime, prisons are full. build some more detention centres. the people knife crime stopped. people want knife crime stopped. and a that's a frankly a and that's a that's a frankly a feeble excuse for not getting people who carry knives off the streets. >> well, that's the point. mel's making as well, that prisons are indeed full. mark says again, michelle, you would interrupt someone , you'd hurt someone, someone, you'd hurt someone, you'd stop them, and then you yourself would end up in prison again . i hear you lots of people again. i hear you lots of people saying that if they were security guards, would they want to get involved? because ultimately you could then lose your you would then lose your your you would then lose your you wouldn't if you're doing it under the powers of a citizen's arrest, which you're allowed to

do under i think it's section three of the 1967 criminal law act. >> frankly, that should be broadened . why not make it broadened. why not make it a positive part of community action? you're going to stop these toerags ruining people's societies, causing antisocial behaviour. i think the country would love it, frankly. >> do you do you share that enthusiasm? >> no. and i think you've really answered why, which is the public, which are ordinary folk like us, not always trained like us, are not always trained to judge we're certainly to judge risk. we're certainly not trained in how to kind of wrestle someone to the ground. and as you said, anyone who's got we love, is, got someone we love, which is, you know, all of us, they'd think, want put think, would we want to put ourselves in harm's way. so i would to think i'd do would like to think i'd do something about it. but it's entirely reasonable. people do have that moment hesitation have that moment of hesitation saying, single saying, you know, i'm a single parent. a knife parent. what if i get a knife somewhere nasty? >> do you know what? >> but then do you know what? there is something to said there is something to be said about together about coming together as a collective because these collective because some of these people, around thinking people, they run around thinking they could do whatever it is that they like doing. and that they feel like doing. and actually, if there was a collective people that collective of people that said, you know what, a community, you know what, as a community,

as unit, we're going to stand as a unit, we're going to stand and to say, no, and we're going to say, no, we're having we'll we're not having that. we'll stand there a stand together. there is a collection of us. then some of these people are behaving in this way. might just might this way. they might just might think you think twice. and i'll tell you what would to do. i'd what i would love to do. i'd like to be the cctv operator in a because you can spot some a shop because you can spot some of a mile off. and of these people a mile off. and i there going right. i would be there going right. you aisle two with your grey you on aisle two with your grey tracksuits and your brown hair. put pack of bacon back. put that pack of bacon back. i've we're not having i've seen you. we're not having it. humiliate shame it. and humiliate them and shame them bacon back. >> and frankly, michel, there's no reason to have a hood up or a mask on in shops. no hoods, no masks. the cctv can see you. the evidence there. evidence is there. >> you go. we're watching >> there you go. we're watching you, certainly you, richard tice certainly is. anyway edwards, anyway look, peter edwards, thank for your company. thank you for your company. richard you for richard tice. thank you for yours we will this yours as well. we will keep this conversation going again tomorrow. time is tomorrow. but for now, time is up. nigel farage up next. have a good night. night. hello there. >> i'm jonathan vautrey here of your gb news weather forecast provided by met a provided by the met office a bit of picture as we end off of a mixed picture as we end off the day we've got rain lingering across parts of northern

ireland, will ireland, southern scotland will just sink its way southwards into of northern england into parts of northern england as before generally as well before generally petering off into second petering off into the second half the night, some half of the night, though some other just other areas of rain just beginning way into beginning to push their way into parts northern ireland parts of northern ireland throughout as throughout the early hours as well. good amount of cloud well. a good amount of cloud around hold the around will hold up the temperatures places temperatures for most places around but parts around 11, 13 c. but parts of northern scotland will off northern scotland will drop off a touch more down into those single figure values under the clearer here, this clearer skies we have here, this rain then spread its way in rain will then spread its way in as we throughout thursday. as we head throughout thursday. quite to day quite a damp start to the day for northern ireland, then into western western western scotland. western england and wales also seeing a fair throughout fair amount of rain throughout the day past southeastern areas of england, staying of england, though staying largelyhere. so a relatively spells here. so a relatively fine day across the board. we'll be quite for most of us, be quite breezy for most of us, taking the off some of taking the edge off some of those a touch, but those temperatures a touch, but 19 c possible in the south, generally to generally more around 16 to 17 c. further north into friday. this mixture of low pressure and high pressure continues. generally high pressure stuck towards helping towards the south, helping to keep fine and keep things relatively fine and dry. trailing frontal dry. but this trailing frontal system across areas system across northern areas will continue outbreaks will continue to bring outbreaks of times could turn of rain at times could turn quite persistent into

quite persistent really into areas of scotland, particularly once this next pulse moves in later on in the day. but further towards the south, again, a good amount of sunshine as

by while it was the big rishi sunak speech at manchester today where he decided to scrap the hs2 extension to bring in a smoking ban to make it illegal for anybody born after 2009 to smoke anybody born after 2009 to smoke a cigarette and he's going to change a—levels. >> but was it enough? did it inspire ? and were you at home inspire? and were you at home satisfied? i'll be discussing all of that in detail with a great panel after the news with polly middlehurst. nigel thank you. >> good evening to you. well, as you've been hearing, the prime