>> good evening. i'm ray addison in the gb newsroom. our top story tonight, the prime minister, rishi sunak, says the uk is ready to provide any support that israel needs after it was attacked by the terrorist organisation hamas . now, those organisation hamas. now, those of you watching on television can see live footage of gaza now where israel says 800 hamas targets have been hit, killing hundreds of fighters with dozens more captured. earlier, israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu said they will turn anywhere. hamas terrorists are hiding into, quote , an island of hiding into, quote, an island of ruins. he also urged the people of gaza to leave those areas. now, more than 700 israelis were killed and more than 1500 injured in yesterday's surprise attack. nathaniel young , a 20 attack. nathaniel young, a 20 year old british man serving in the israeli army, was also killed. at least 330 palestinians have died after hamas fired thousands of rockets

and gunmen stormed the border . and gunmen stormed the border. >> the scenes that we've seen in israel over the past 36 hours are truly horrifying . i want to are truly horrifying. i want to express my absolute solidarity for the people of israel . now is for the people of israel. now is not a time for equivocation , and not a time for equivocation, and i'm unequivocal. hamas and the people who support hamas are fully responsible for this appalling act of terror , for the appalling act of terror, for the murder of civilians and for the kidnapping of innocent people, including children. i've just spoken with prime minister netanyahu to assure him of the uk steadfast support rishi sunak giving his full support. >> now, lieutenant colonel richard hecht is the idf's international spokesperson. he described the scene on the ground . ground. >> the visuals are isil visuals . in a way, this is our 9/11. this is our 9/11. and, you know, even more than that, i mean, it wasn't it crashing into a building . it's also much building. it's also much oscillating and attacking a

party that was happening around the gaza strip , a nature party the gaza strip, a nature party attacking civilians , kidnapping attacking civilians, kidnapping attacking civilians, kidnapping a grandmother . father and a grandmother. father and finally, gb news understands that labour plans to appoint a covid corruption commissioner if the party wins the next general election. >> the new role is designed to help recoup billions of pounds of taxpayers money lost during the pandemic. labour believes there were cases of waste, fraud and flawed contracts. shadow chancellor rachel reeves is expected to make the announcement shortly . this is gb announcement shortly. this is gb news across the uk on tv , in news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now let's get back to free speech nation . on to free speech nation. on >> rishi sunak gets in hot water over a joke about nicola sturgeon . a new poll predicts sturgeon. a new poll predicts a labour landslide side in the

next election and picasso is about to get cancelled. this is free speech nation . hey welcome free speech nation. hey welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle and rather enthusiastic studio audience . enthusiastic studio audience. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics and of course, we'll have the latest those we'll have the latest from those lovable culture and lovable culture warriors. and we're to try and keep you we're going to try and keep you up to date with everything. they're get cancelled, they're trying to get cancelled, although do only have although we do only have two hours. on the show hours. but coming up on the show tonight, the great cleese tonight, the great john cleese will be here talk his will be here to talk about his brilliant dinosaur brilliant new show, the dinosaur houn brilliant new show, the dinosaur hour, gb news. hour, which starts on gb news. later month. we'll also be later this month. we'll also be joined by professor eric kaufmann. launching he kaufmann. he's launching what he describes of common describes as a faculty of common sense the university sense at the university of buckingham to buckingham in an attempt to protect free speech. i'll be speaking to andrew boff, the london member who was london assembly member who was ejected from the home secretary's speech at the tory party supposed party conference for supposed heckling . and we'll be debating heckling. and we'll be debating whether the prime minister , whether the prime minister, rishi sunak's, to phase out

rishi sunak's, plan to phase out smoking laudable attempt to smoking is a laudable attempt to combat a public health scourge or an example of the state going beyond its remit. and of course i've got a fantastic comedian panel tonight answer the panel tonight to answer the questions our audience. questions from our audience. we've devlin paul we've got bruce devlin and paul cox . and bruce we've got bruce devlin and paul cox. and bruce is in a very happy mood because he's going to see madonna soon. i am. next week. next week . so next week. next week. so next saturday, that will be the pinnacle of your life experience. i think , sadly, you experience. i think, sadly, you know, i'm a very busy person. >> i have forgotten the beerschot festival in edinburgh because lumo to because i came on the lumo to come see you. okay. and yes, come and see you. okay. and yes, madonna next saturday. you madonna is next saturday. you are a professional homosexual, aren't you? >> this point, don't my >> at this point, don't tell my mum because she doesn't know. >> know she just >> she doesn't know she just thinks awkward. >> she doesn't know she just thinks everyone'ard. >> she doesn't know she just thinks everyone watching. just >> so everyone watching. just keep a secret. whatever you keep it a secret. whatever you do. are you? what have do. paul, how are you? what have you been up to? thanks. >> i've been a lot. i've >> i've been up to a lot. i've been here few this week. been here a few times this week. it's my dad's 70th birthday today. happy birthday, today. oh, happy birthday, dad. >> come on, dad. >> come on, dad. >> i didn't invite into the show, but he doesn't like it.

>> he doesn't like it. >> he doesn't like it. >> he's not interested. okay fair but happy birthday fair enough. but happy birthday anyway. to start anyway. so we're going to start by some questions from by getting some questions from our audience. and our by getting some questions from our question:iience. and our by getting some questions from our question is nce. and our by getting some questions from our question is from and our by getting some questions from our question is from tim. ur by getting some questions from our question is from tim. tim first question is from tim. tim hello, tim. what's your question? >> after nigel farage was treated a rock at the treated like a rock star at the recent conference, would he recent tory conference, would he make a good tory leader? >> this is very interesting. i've seen a lot of debates about this, tim, online. a lot of people saying, well, maybe he's the person for the i the right person for the job. i mean, look, they're definitely the right person for the job. i meigetting, they're definitely the right person for the job. i meigetting, th next definitely the right person for the job. i meigetting, th next time, tely the right person for the job. i meigetting, th next time, are not getting in. next time, are they? maybe someone they? so maybe they need someone like you think that like that. do you think that nigel farage would be a good leader? tim yeah, you do. >> possibly. possibly leader? tim yeah, you do. >> okay.)ly. possibly leader? tim yeah, you do. >> okay. paul, ssibly leader? tim yeah, you do. >> okay. paul, do le leader? tim yeah, you do. >> okay. paul, do you have any thoughts? i mean, obviously he's he's, he's a gb news he's, you know, he's a gb news presenter, have presenter, so he might have a bit bias here. but what do bit of bias here. but what do you think? >> there's a of >> yeah, there's a couple of ways to look at this. think ways to look at this. i think the to look it is the first way to look at it is he would be the first conservative leader since margaret thatcher. conservative leader since maithere thatcher. conservative leader since maithere was cher. conservative leader since maithere was chwoman wasn't >> there was a woman i wasn't expecting. woman. >> there was a woman i wasn't epr�*ting. woman. >> there was a woman i wasn't epr woman. woman. >> a woman. >> a woman. >> would because we've not >> he would be because we've not really a conservative really had a conservative leader since also, does since then. and also, it does seem what we're seem to me that what we're

seeing this is all coming seeing is, is this is all coming from the left. i mean, he's not even said that he would want to rejoin member the rejoin as a member of the conservative rejoin as a member of the con so vative rejoin as a member of the con so vatiivery premature, rejoin as a member of the conso vatiivery premature, isn't it? >> so it feels to me like there was was an element of the was there was an element of the left the conservative left that saw the conservative conference how much fun left that saw the conservative conferwase how much fun left that saw the conservative conferwas having how much fun left that saw the conservative conferwas having and)w much fun left that saw the conservative conferwas having and thought, fun left that saw the conservative conferwas having and thought, we nigel was having and thought, we don't just don't like this. we're just going things that just going to say things that just emotional they were emotional things they were saying. it felt. saying. that's how it felt. >> think cope with >> i don't think i can cope with another mean, we've another leader. i mean, we've had the course of one. had three in the course of one. but thing. but that's the thing. >> say what you like about starmer. in the job, starmer. he's kept in the job, whether he's watched however starmer. he's kept in the job, wheth others watched however starmer. he's kept in the job, wheth other people, ed however starmer. he's kept in the job, wheth other people, and nwever starmer. he's kept in the job, wheth other people, and obviously starmer. he's kept in the job, vithinkither people, and obviously starmer. he's kept in the job, vithink farageeople, and obviously starmer. he's kept in the job, vithink farage likes and obviously starmer. he's kept in the job, vithink farage likes a that'siously i think farage likes a that's not i think he's a not a euphemism. i think he's a heavy smoker. yes. rishi's against it would against that. so it would be interesting to have someone that was a chain smoker. >> well, we're to talk >> well, we're going to talk we're going to have a debate later the smoking bans. we're going to have a debate latewe'll the smoking bans. we're going to have a debate latewe'll ttintotoking bans. we're going to have a debate latewe'll ttinto that.) bans. we're going to have a debate latewe'll ttinto that. okay.. oh, we'll get into that. okay. it's interesting one. okay. it's an interesting one. okay. we're move on to we're going to move on to a question is question now from alan. where is alan? alan. alan? hi, alan. >> there, guys. well, nigel >> hi there, guys. well, nigel did night at the reform did say last night at the reform uk conference that he was not going the conservatives. >> ruled out >> oh, he's ruled out absolutely. >> oh, he's ruled out absolutelruled it out. thank you >>100% ruled it out. thank you for making me look like i don't know i'm talking about down there.

>> that's what we need. the audience for. >> question well, >> well, my question is. well, some tories have told me some senior tories have told me they percentage chance they think the percentage chance of them the next general of them winning the next general is are we is about 30. yeah. so are we going to see a labour landslide victory, so. >> well, there was a poll this week . i saw it in the >> well, there was a poll this week. i saw it in the guardian, so i don't know how much it can be trusted, but it was talking about labour getting a landslide victory and they're talking about conservative cabinet about 12 conservative cabinet ministers about 12 conservative cabinet minithats about 12 conservative cabinet minithat the tories would not and that the tories would not retain the red wall seats retain any of the red wall seats that they had acquired in the previous election. that's quite a major. >> it felt like the guardian was trying to manifest that when, as i read that story, that's just what it felt like. yeah, but they lie. they can't lie. >> i mean, the polls got to be real, know? real, you know? >> it depends who they >> yeah, but it depends who they are. all polls real, aren't are. all polls are real, aren't they? just, if you are. all polls are real, aren't they ask just, if you are. all polls are real, aren't they ask three just, if you are. all polls are real, aren't they ask three people if you are. all polls are real, aren't they ask three people thatu are. all polls are real, aren't they ask three people that agree just ask three people that agree with you. >> don't know though, because >> i don't know though, because a lot of it, even conservative supporters and i do supporters don't don't and i do agree i certainly do agree with them on that fact. >> i'm not sure i see the evidence for a landslide. and yet on the basis that the yet on the basis that all the labour party keir starmer in

labour party and keir starmer in particular are offering is not tory. that win. tory. yeah but that can win. >> will i mean, biden tory. yeah but that can win. >> and will i mean, biden tory. yeah but that can win. >> and not i mean, biden tory. yeah but that can win. >> and not trump.nean, biden tory. yeah but that can win. >> and not trump. he n, biden tory. yeah but that can win. >> and not trump. he was den tory. yeah but that can win. >> and not trump. he was stuck won and not trump. he was stuck in for the whole campaign. >> oh my god. was he a victim of fritzl? >> oh, no, no. he was just keeping himself to himself. >> well, very the same. >> well, i'm very much the same. >> well, i'm very much the same. >> i mean, bruce, the >> so listen, i mean, bruce, the thing i'm convinced that the thing is, i'm convinced that the tories really stand tories don't really stand a chance next election. and tories don't really stand a cwould next election. and tories don't really stand a cwould have next election. and tories don't really stand a cwould have liked election. and tories don't really stand a cwould have liked to zction. and tories don't really stand a cwould have liked to zctithe and i would have liked to at the party conference rishi had party conference if rishi had gone said, we're party conference if rishi had gon going said, we're party conference if rishi had gon going to said, we're party conference if rishi had gon going to get d, we're party conference if rishi had gon going to get in. we're party conference if rishi had gon going to get in. let's we're party conference if rishi had gon going to get in. let's juste not going to get in. let's just have you know? have a laugh. you know? >> you think he's capable of >> do you think he's capable of actually saying something like that? >> i'm sure he's capable of >> i'm not sure he's capable of joy, could have joy, but i think he could have feigned it. >> no. yeah, well, i his wife could said it. could have said it. >> go. she went out >> there we go. she went out first and she could just first and she. she could just said seems very prolific. >> yeah. yeah, she's like this country's obama. country's michelle obama. yeah. >> british do you country's michelle obama. yeah. >> that british do you country's michelle obama. yeah. >> that there's3ritish do you country's michelle obama. yeah. >> that there's going do you country's michelle obama. yeah. >> that there's going do yoa think that there's going to be a landslide for labour? >> i'm. i don't know. so in scotland, which is i'm scotland, which is where i'm from, was from, i'm they had the it was rutherglen and hamilton and typhoid margaret typhoid mary margaret ferrier that with . do you that was that woman with. do you know something. right. even a woman above that. she went on a train with covid. why would you dye that she dye your hair that dark? she

just she just looked so hellish like she really did need to focus on the question. well, no, no. question. well, no, no, no, no. i labour got i am. but then. so labour got in, but it wasn't a huge aim. i think it was like about 30,000 of the electorate. so where massive are they labour really. >> no, i think they're on the rise, to be quite honest with you. it'll be interesting. you. yeah, it'll be interesting. but then the tories are nowhere you. yeah, it'll be interesting. buscotlande tories are nowhere you. yeah, it'll be interesting. buscotlande toriesso.) nowhere in scotland either, so. >> they the opposition >> well they are the opposition party. yeah. at this moment in time. >> okay. interesting. >> yeah. okay. very interesting. okay, to another okay, we'll move on to another question is question now if we may. this is from david hello . from david. david hello. >> of tack >> hi, guys. change of tack here. is there any demand for open categories in sport art? >> yes. so this is this news story about story this week about transgender swimming transgender world cups swimming races. and set up an open races. and they set up an open category. and this is seen very much as a kind of a sign of easy fix for the problem of the debate surrounding trans athletes sports. athletes in women's sports. the open anyone athletes in women's sports. the ope|compete anyone athletes in women's sports. the ope|compete . anyone athletes in women's sports. the ope|compete . so anyone athletes in women's sports. the ope|compete . so however anyone athletes in women's sports. the ope|compete . so however youme can compete. so however you identify, you compete . and identify, you can compete. and they those categories . they set up those categories. and problem one and the problem is no one entered this the world entered and this was the world cup berlin. no swimmers cup event in berlin. no swimmers wanted it. now, paul, this wanted to do it. now, paul, this suggests to me, well , what does

suggests to me, well, what does it suggest to you? i won't say yet. what do you think? >> swimming is binary? >> is it swimming is binary? yeah. yeah. basically you've got men and women mean, i'm men and women and i mean, i'm not this at i not surprised by this at all. i think of thing think it's the sort of thing i probably would have suggested we think it's the sort of thing i proiin)ly would have suggested we think it's the sort of thing i proiin the vould have suggested we think it's the sort of thing i proiin the past. have suggested we think it's the sort of thing i proiin the past. wee suggested we think it's the sort of thing i proiin the past. we shouldested we did in the past. we should probably have a trans category. did in the past. we should probaibut1ave a trans category. did in the past. we should probaibut1ave thing1s category. did in the past. we should probaibut1ave thing that'segory. yeah, but one thing that's demonstrably true about the trans debate is it only really seems to affect in the media's eyes, trans women. so we don't talk about trans men competing in weightlifting or why is that? well, because men are physically different, so they can absolutely pound women to death and win championships. well, this is the point, because if someone who is biologically male, who identifies female , male, who identifies as female, enters into a category with women, going to women, they're probably going to do if they enter the do pretty well if they enter the open category, much . open category, not so much. >> i mean, think that's why >> i mean, i think that's why they enter. >> and i don't think that's cynical point out. i think cynical to point out. i think that's what happened. cynical to point out. i think that's unless what happened. cynical to point out. i think that's unless theyt happened. cynical to point out. i think that's unless theyt hajallied. yeah. unless they just all collectively that collectively decided that they didn't third didn't want this separate third category. believe that. >> well, it's interesting, bruce, because the bruce, isn't it? because the whole why we have whole reason why we have sex, segregated that segregated sports was so that women compete in a women could compete in a professional capacity. that's why first

place. >> well, we've about this >> well, we've talked about this before, haven't we? the fact of the matter some people the matter was that some people believe women going believe that women weren't going to against men. so they to compete against men. so they had women had to have women only categories . i mean, personally, categories. i mean, personally, because sport zero because it's sport zero interest. well, yes, know that interest. well, yes, i know that . it's for me , but . you know, it's not for me, but you surprised me. bruce, do i? that's the thing. yeah that's that's the thing. yeah i'm an enigma. yeah. >> not even backgammon. >> not even backgammon. >> no . i find that >> no, no, no. i find that confusing. i'm dyslexic , so. confusing. i'm dyslexic, so. yeah, and i don't like strange textures . textures. >> another >> okay, let's get another question now. this one is from finn. where is finn ? hi. finn. finn. where is finn? hi. finn. >> should rishi sunak be arrested? yes . plain and simple. arrested? yes. plain and simple. >> let's do it now . >> let's do it now. >> let's do it now. >> should he be arrested for making that joke about nicola sturgeon? yes >> a police scotland have said that they're not taking action. there was a complaint about a comment it was comment he made. well, it was a joke, it? what did he joke, wasn't it? what did he say? well, do you remember what he something say? well, do you remember what he the something say? well, do you remember what he the lines something say? well, do you remember what he the lines of something say? well, do you remember what he the lines of because hing along the lines of because obviously just obviously she's just been released. >> said, just like >> so he then said, just like the going down or she the uk's going down or she wanted to go down, maybe

wanted the uk to go down, maybe she's going down. yes. >> bruce, careful you >> bruce, be careful what you say here, but i mean even that, like it's so obviously it's so obviously structured as a joke . obviously structured as a joke. and even if you don't find the joke funny, it is still a joke. the problem is, i mean, what did you think of that? i mean, some of the jokes you tell bruce could a lot of trouble. >> i don't think i've ever told a joke in my life. i think people need to a grip. yeah. people need to get a grip. yeah. and think we need to focus on and i think we need to focus on bigger than people, you bigger issues than people, you know, saying something for a laugh. know, saying something for a lau i1. it was quip, >> i mean, it was just a quip, wasn't it? >> i mean, it was just a quip, wasyeah,’ >> i mean, it was just a quip, wasyeah, exactly. that's >> yeah, exactly. that's the whole sure. nicola, whole thing. i'm sure. nicola, she'll camper she'll be in the camper van. she'll be in the camper van. she'll be in the camper van. she'll be she'll be right she'll be fine. she'll be right in book and all kind of in her book and all that kind of stuff. she loves an audiobook. she'll be listening podcasts. she'll be listening to podcasts. she's very she's busy. she's got very busy. she's busy. she's got very busy. she's learning drive . is that she's busy. she's got very busy. she's yeah.1g drive . is that she's busy. she's got very busy. she's yeah. god drive . is that she's busy. she's got very busy. she's yeah. god lovee . is that she's busy. she's got very busy. she's yeah. god love her.; that she's busy. she's got very busy. she's yeah. god love her. in|at right? yeah. god love her. in the wake of our climate emergency, what do you think about this one? >> well, mean, can't imagine >> well, i mean, i can't imagine police it police scotland taking it particularly seriously. unless unless misgendered unless he'd misgendered her in some then oh, well , that's, some way. then oh, well, that's, you know, i mean, the thing is,

police scotland have got a database of jokes of jokes that people have made online, which they and don't notify they keep and they don't notify they keep and they don't notify the made them . the people who've made them. >> we get access? >> yeah, can we get access? there's real mean, not there's a real i mean, i'm not blaming but there is blaming you, bruce, but there is a problem a real problem with authoritarianism among the scottish there really scottish police. there really is. there's a genuine problem scottish police. there really is. there's wow.1uine problem scottish police. there really is. there's wow. they'reoblem scottish police. there really is. there's wow. they're veryn there. oh, wow. they're very they tweets saying, they put those tweets saying, make don't anything make sure you don't say anything offensive online or we'll be knocking your well, knocking on your door. well, i find that offensive. knocking on your door. well, i find thinkffensive. knocking on your door. well, i find thinkffen whole was >> i think the whole thing was relatively cynical. and the reason that is because reason i think that is because it was the alba party that reported it to police reported it to the police alba party salman, who's party being run by salman, who's not exactly. >> you think this >> oh, you think this is a political opportune ism? >> think because it was >> i think it was because it was never to lead anywhere, never going to lead anywhere, was because read the was it? because if you read the joke, lot of there was it? because if you read the jok(a lot of there was it? because if you read the jok(a lot lot of there was it? because if you read the jok(a lot of lot of there was it? because if you read the jok(a lot of sort lot of there was it? because if you read the jok(a lot of sort oft of there are a lot of sort of noncommittal words in there like may and should. and it never it never anything never actually said anything really a laugh? >> just. well, yeah, yeah. sort laugh? >> raised well, yeah, yeah. sort laugh? >> raised aell, yeah, yeah. sort laugh? >> raised a tittereah, yeah. sort laugh? >> raised a titter in , yeah. sort laugh? >>raised a titter in areah. sort laugh? >> raised a titter in a way sort laugh? >> raised a titter in a way that. of raised a titter in a way that raising a titter at the conservative party is about as much as you expect. much as you can expect. >> exactly. much as you can expect. >> they're not a fields of wheat much as you can expect. >> tithat's|ot a fields of wheat much as you can expect. >> tithat's right.ields of wheat much as you can expect. >> tithat's right.ields go nheat much as you can expect. >> tithat's right.ields go on�*at field. that's right. let's go on to pavel. where is pavel? hi, pavel. microphones being pavel. oh, the microphones being passed out. oh, wow. hi. >> hi, andrew. >> hi, andrew. >> great to be on your

show. >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> my flatmate and i watch gb news religiously. >> glad . >> well, i'm glad. >> well, i'm glad. >> my question recently , >> my question is recently, rishi sunak made a controversial decision about hs2. yeah, so is it a good thing that they stop wasting money on it? >> okay. yeah. i mean, this is a tricky one, isn't it? they've spent so much money on hs2 and it's, you know, now going it's, you know, now it's going to you know? to stop at birmingham. you know? i do think, i mean, what do you think, pavel? do you think that's. i mean, what do you think, pavil? do you think that's. i mean, what do you think, pavi think you think that's. i mean, what do you think, pavi think you twastedat's. i mean, what do you think, pavi think you twasted at's much >> i think they wasted so much money they should just money on it. they should just finish it. do you think they should just through should just go through and finish a penny, finish it in for a penny, investigate went? investigate all the money went? >> see, some >> well, you see, some people say sunken cost say that's the sunken cost fallacy, friends etcetera . fallacy, friends and etcetera. okay. paul. so the okay. well, okay, paul. so the thing is, it was meant to be about improving infrastructure right up to the north up to manchester, over to leeds. you know, if you're just going to stop birmingham, mean, stop at birmingham, i mean, effectively means that effectively it just means that people to people from london can get to birmingham quicker. yeah. >> again, there are two >> i mean, again, there are two who wants that? well, not me . who wants that? well, not me. there are some decent comedy clubs up there, but not many. not enough to justify the cost of the travel. however,

of the travel. exactly however, what that at the. what i would say is that at the. what was the question ? well just what was the question? well just generally, should hs2 have been, i believe, or should it go up all the way to leeds? forgive me. i don't know what happened there, hs2 probably there, but i think hs2 probably should delivered. i mean, should be delivered. i mean, i think britain would think a great britain would deliver think it's not deliver it. i think it's not about what we deliver now. it's about what we deliver now. it's about we're delivering about what we're delivering for future all future generations. also, all pubuc in future generations. also, all public in arguably public spending in arguably could be seen as a waste of money because it all depends on your perspective. you're your perspective. if you're interested in rail or not. but for me , if it connects the for me, if it connects the country in in in a much better way, then it's a good idea. but however, i do see what rishi sunak has done as a good thing because he's concentrating on connecting the north better. i don't we have this don't know why we have this fascination connect fascination on having connect the north south the the north with the south all the time, best time, like the south is the best place which you and place to be, which you and i know it is. but we want know it is. but we don't want everyone. don't. we everyone. we don't. we don't. we don't. don't want everyone don't. we don't want everyone down we? down here, do we? >> okay, that's nice. that's really nice. >> speak someone who's very really nice. >> north. someone who's very really nice.

>> north. yessomeone who's very really nice. >> north. yes do ieone who's very really nice. >> north. yes do you who's very really nice. >> north. yes do you feelj's very really nice. >> north. yes do you feel thatzry up north. yes do you feel that this is unfair? that really they should have just gone through with it irrespective of the expense? >> i they should actually >> i think they should actually just it, be just delivered on it, to be quite you. my quite honest with you. but my point would be you're only getting to birmingham. it ten getting to birmingham. is it ten minutes would getting to birmingham. is it ten minu here? would getting to birmingham. is it ten minu here? there's would from here? and there's a selfridges there's selfridges here, there's a selfridges here, there's a selfridges birmingham. you selfridges in birmingham. you can this can shop online. what is this all about? needs to stop. so all about? it needs to stop. so just do it and shut up. >> is this really all about selfridges, though? >> necessarily. >> not necessarily. i mean, that's of it. andrew. that's a big part of it. andrew. and don't realise and i think if you don't realise that quite ignorant, that you're quite ignorant, well, told. well, that's me told. >> have we got time for another question? we do this is from jeremy. where's jeremy? hi, jeremy. >> hi. good evening. come >> hi. good evening. how come there many female rapists there are so many female rapists all of a sudden? it's quite a dark question. >> you're asking, jeremy, but this is to give some background. there's been a freedom of information from the information request from the telegraph revealed that the telegraph that revealed that the police have wrongly labelled hundreds of suspected rapists as women. paul did you read this article? did you see this? what do you make of this? >> well, i assume this is and having the article,

having read the article, i believe it to be the case. this is all about the transgender issue. be. i mean, issue. it has to be. i mean, isla et cetera. yes. it isla bryson et cetera. yes. it can't be anything else. so we've isla bryson et cetera. yes. it can people ything else. so we've isla bryson et cetera. yes. it can people that|g else. so we've isla bryson et cetera. yes. it can people that are lse. so we've isla bryson et cetera. yes. it can people that are identified.ve got people that are identified. we've got men that are identifying women and raping women. >> yeah, i mean, i think law >> yeah, i mean, i think by law , possible a woman , it's not possible for a woman to rapist. this is the to be a rapist. this is the point. it's so it's very interesting that i mean, there's obviously opportunism obviously a level of opportunism there. the there. and when it came to the adam stroke, bryson adam graham stroke, isla bryson case, that is explosive. case, i mean, that is explosive. i mean , pretty there's i mean, that pretty much there's an that that brought an argument that that brought down delicious piece down was such a delicious piece of serendipity that time , of serendipity at that time, because what the argument was about so that it was just about so far is that it was just about so far is that it was just a very small amount of chance that this could happen. >> the very next week, >> and then the very next week, the story is bryson the biggest story is isla bryson . well, it doesn't . it's like, well, it doesn't matter chance matter how small the chance is, if happens a if it happens once, it's a problem need consider. and problem we need to consider. and that the point. we were just that was the point. we were just parking the problem, saying, well, a small well, it's only a small percentage, don't need to worry. >> i mean, this is the point, isn't bruce, you know, isn't it, bruce, that, you know, it's well being it's all very well being sensitive the way sensitive to people's the way people et cetera. but people identify. et cetera. but when it comes to people have when it comes to people who have committed assault, committed sexual assault, they have the in the

have to be housed in the in the pnson have to be housed in the in the prison with their own biological sex. i remember on question >> well, i remember on question time, her name time, i can't remember her name . education secretary . she's the education secretary in . and she wouldn't be in scotland. and she wouldn't be drawn because it was to do drawn on it because it was to do with the fact that this individual, this individual i don't the correct don't know what the correct answer is, but if someone has raped someone , they should be raped someone, they should be punished accordingly. right? surely >> and i think it was such a big story, bryson, i think story, the isla bryson, i think as it was the timing as paul says, it was the timing of it that really of it as well that really brought it down. but of course, no because of the no wonder because some of the women are among the women in prison are among the most in most vulnerable in the population. course, they population. and of course, they should anyway. should be protected anyway. look next nation next up on free speech nation comedy cleese will comedy legend john cleese will be about his new be here to talk about his new show, the dinosaur hour. and that starts on gb news on the 29th of october. so please don't go anywhere. we'll be back in a couple of minutes .

>> newsradio. welcome back to free speech

nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. >> so make a note in your diaries for the 29th of october, because the dinosaur hour is coming to gb news. >> this is a ten part show. it's going to be on at 9:00 on sunday evenings. and the host is a certain john cleese , who's been certain john cleese, who's been given carte blanche to create the type of show that he's always wanted to watch. and we can unveil the promo . this is can unveil the promo. this is the time it's been the first time it's ever been played now. let's have played right now. let's have a look who is it? >> we're here for the show for energy this time. >> welcome to the dinosaur hour. >> welcome to the dinosaur hour. >> i was married to a therapist i >> and you survived. >> and you survived. >> i thought we were getting hugh laurie, second best. my bellissima. you interviewed saddam hussein. what's that like? i was terrified. i'm playing strip poker with these three. >> oh, no, thank you. >> oh, no, thank you. >> my cds need to be put in alphabetical order. oh are you going to be problematic again ? going to be problematic again? >> the dinosaur for our sunday

the 29th of october at 9:00 on . the 29th of october at 9:00 on. gb news. so, john, since you're here, can you tell us about the show? >> yes, i can. >> yes, i can. >> well, it's on the 29th, which is two days after my 84th birthday. thank you . and so i birthday. thank you. and so i will be celebrating it. i'm on tour in akron , ohio. it's tour in akron, ohio. it's a dream come true, john. it is . dream come true, john. it is. i'm taking a flying in all my friends and relatives to akron for the. >> it's a good idea. did you plan it that way? you wanted to be in akron? >> what a dump. i hate. no, i hate ohio. it's just that all cleveland is the worst . cleveland is the worst. >> i've been to cleveland. it was quite bad. >> yeah, it's extraordinary thing about cleveland is that people live there. they don't have to know. >> they do it voluntarily . it's

>> they do it voluntarily. it's very, very strange . very, very strange. >> there's no sort of guards or why netting or anything. they could leave any time they want. i said to my i said to i said, one of the guys, i said, this is awful , this place. why do you awful, this place. why do you live here? and he said, i can't sell my condominium . and then he sell my condominium. and then he said, we have a joke here. what's what's the difference between a cleveland condominium and gonorrhoea ? the answer is and gonorrhoea? the answer is you can get rid of gonorrhoea. >> well, luckily , people from >> well, luckily, people from ohio probably aren't watching tonight . so i ohio probably aren't watching tonight. so i think we're i think we're pretty safe because you've still got tickets to sell ultimately. oh, absolutely. you've still got tickets to sell ultimibut'. oh, absolutely. you've still got tickets to sell ultimibut but|, absolutely. you've still got tickets to sell ultimibut but the solutely. you've still got tickets to sell ultimibut but the showzly. you've still got tickets to sell ultimibut but the show is. you've still got tickets to sell ultimibut but the show is coming yeah. but but the show is coming out of course and i've been out and of course and i've been working this you, working on this with you, obviously in capacity of obviously in the capacity of producer for there are some producer for and there are some amazing stephen fry, amazing guests. stephen fry, trevor mcdonald, tim rice. amazing guests. stephen fry, treithere'sonald, tim rice. amazing guests. stephen fry, treithere's also i, tim rice. amazing guests. stephen fry, treithere's also atim rice. amazing guests. stephen fry, treithere's also a lot rice. amazing guests. stephen fry, treithere's also a lot ofce. amazing guests. stephen fry, treithere's also a lot of very >> there's also a lot of very good guests aren't good guests who aren't celebrities. yes you you've celebrities. yes you see, you've got a certain number of got to have a certain number of celebs. get people to celebs. ortiz to get people to turn on. but then you can you can interview people who are

really acting. and it's really into acting. and it's very hard in this world. well, it's well, you know, you know, it's well, you know, you know, it's awful. lot of celebrities aren't interested thing at all, you know, and as i say, this this show is all about it's for the out of touch . you see all the out of touch. you see all the out of touch. you see all the dinosaurs who are out of touch because you can be out of touch because you can be out of touch for two reasons, right ? touch for two reasons, right? you can be voluntarily out of touch because you give it up, which is a very sensible point of view . or you can be out of of view. or you can be out of touch without knowing it. but it's for those sort of people. yeah. and it was a lot of fun filming because we did huge fun. >> we did it in a norman castle. so i think people were quite confused about that. but it was it interesting. it was interesting. >> extraordinary. it was interesting. >> i extraordinary. it was interesting. >> i mean extraordinary. it was interesting. >> i mean , extraordinary. it was interesting. >> i mean , thextraordinary. it was interesting. >> i mean , the setting nary. it was interesting. >> i mean , the setting iary. it was interesting. >> i mean , the setting i wanted but i mean, the setting i wanted to make look like a very, very strange gentleman's club, you know, a little bit like the bar on on what was that great space? um, the star wars . the first um, the star wars. the first star wars. oh, yes, the bar. i know exactly. >> the bar, you mean? yeah

>> the bar, you mean? yeah >> so i wanted it to be a little bit like that because it seems >> so i wanted it to be a little biimee that because it seems >> so i wanted it to be a little biime thatt because it seems >> so i wanted it to be a little biime that television it seems >> so i wanted it to be a little biime that television fallsems >> so i wanted it to be a little biime that television falls into to me that television falls into cliches so easily. you look at every now, what every news show now, what happens is you this very happens is you get this very elaborate animatronic to start with. yeah, right. and then suddenly , as everyone's sitting suddenly, as everyone's sitting at a desk, which looks pretty much the same on any show that you're looking at, i just wanted to create something that looked different because i thought that would start people out by saying , about? yeah , oh, what's this about? yeah and i don't want to give too much but the range much away, but the range of topics that you in depth topics that you cover in depth and have these very long, and you have these very long, interesting conversations with various like say, various people and like you say, people that we won't know speakers, matters is do speakers, what matters is do people well have some very people talk? well have some very bnght people talk? well have some very bright people just don't talk well, they're not interest ing other people. and we got several on, like matthew said, and if you read his column in the sunday times, it's about the best thing in the sunday times. we've him in a couple of we've got him in a couple of programs you get get people interested in the subject because the normal thing on television these days, if you go

on a show like what the one show which is a nice happy little show, the thing you're show, but the first thing you're not long and then they not on for long and then they tell you they want you to play some in nobody can. some game. nobody in nobody can. television trusts the fact that two people talking might be interesting. >> okay, well, we'll cancel the dart board, but. but sorry about that, john. but it has been very interesting because, you know, normally when it comes on michelle dewberry show the other day talking about how gb news said to you, what you to said to you, what do you want to do? whatever want, do? just do whatever you want, because done very little because as i've done very little television, because i'm completely out of touch with the people who are running television , you know, and i television, you know, and i mean, early on i went to netflix and i gave them six ideas all of which i thought i thought two were really good and two were good and two were. >> they never even called my >> and they never even called my agent back. and you kind of think, well , what art are agent back. and you kind of think, well, what art are you looking for? >> but are they looking for quality or innovation, or are

they looking for no idea. >> and i don't think they know either. mean i mean, the either. well, i mean i mean, the main thing is, you know, as you get as you realise that get older, as you realise that very few people any very few people have any idea what doing, you know, what they're doing, you know, right . it's true. i what they're doing, you know, right. it's true. i mean, what they're doing, you know, right . it's true. i mean, the right. it's true. i mean, the worst case of that was when i went off. i went on a weekend once with an old friend who who used to run the playboy club here, who put all the money up for the very first python film, which is how i knew him. and i met somebody american television people. they said, oh, people. and they said, oh, i justi people. and they said, oh, i just i just bought the rights for fawlty towers . we're going for fawlty towers. we're going to make fawlty towers in america . it's about 15 years ago. and i thought, ching, you know, thought, ching, ching, you know, ching, ching. and i said, have you made any changes? and they said, not really, no . they said, said, not really, no. they said, well, made one. we've written well, we made one. we've written basil out . and they did. basil out. and they did. >> they wrote basil out and gave all his lines to bea arthur, who also had all of sybil's lines. >> and, you know, it didn't work.

>> what a surprise . >> what a surprise. >> what a surprise. >> oh, well, how could they have such a truly terrible idea? >> that's incredible. i mean . i >> that's incredible. i mean. i mean, is itjust that >> that's incredible. i mean. i mean, is it just that you >> that's incredible. i mean. i mean, is itjust that you get mean, is it just that you get these committees together, these executives and they and they sort of don't know quite what they want, but they want to duplicate has duplicate success that has happened end happened in the past. so you end up no taking, i suppose. >> that's right. people try always do what's been always to do what's been successful in the and successful in the past, and i think another thing that happened rhys happened here and griff rhys jones wrote a very good piece about this, a long ago, about this, a long time ago, maybe 15 years ago, is that the top executives now want to be the stars . you see, they want to the stars. you see, they want to take the credit for the ideas of the program and what they need to do. if i was in charge of the bbc, i'd say, who do i think is really good, really great? eddie izzard , for example. i'd say, izzard, for example. i'd say, eddie , what do you want to do? eddie, what do you want to do? yeah. and is there anyone you've always wanted to work with? because if there is, we'll send you off for a free weekend and. and you can just sit and have a nice time and see if there's a

show you want to do. in other words, you want the creative 80 to come from creative to come from the creative people, but on the whole, they don't trust you. and sometimes they a show and then they give me a show and then they give me a show and then they immediately ask me what i'm going to be doing. and i say, i don't know yet because i believe creatively you mustn't make your mind up too soon. i suppose if they did that and they just trusted the creative years, you'd end up with the occasional trusted the creative years, you'd that up with the occasional trusted the creative years, you'd that up vdidn'tz occasional trusted the creative years, you'd that up vdidn't work. sional trusted the creative years, you'd that up vdidn't work. oh ial thing that just didn't work. oh yes, you try to be yes, because if you try to be creative, you're going to make mistakes. whole creative, you're going to make mista is 5. whole creative, you're going to make mista is when whole creative, you're going to make mistais when you're whole creative, you're going to make mistais when you're creating point is when you're creating something haven't been something new, you haven't been there yeah. so you don't there before. yeah. so you don't know . you're to have a know. so you're going to have a few but you're also few failures, but you're also going to have some real successes. successes. >> but you've about this >> but you've talked about this before, had this kind before, that you had this kind of opportunity with the monty, with python with the first monty python series. insofar series. it was fantastic insofar as whatever wanted. >> went to see them >> well, we went in to see them because i'd suggested to the guys, others who were doing guys, the others who were doing a show called do not adjust your set, which was a kids program, went out at 6:00 and graham chapman and i were writing for peter back in those peter sellers back in those days, we rang them up and

days, and we rang them up and said, let's a show together. said, let's do a show together. and feldman's and then marty feldman's writing partner fixed up an interview with a guy called michael mills, who was the head of light entertainment, and we went in to see michael, and he said, i gather you'd like to do a series. and we said, we'd love to. and he said, well, why? what do you propose doing ? and he do you propose doing? and he won't this . we hadn't won't believe this. we hadn't discussed it . can you believe discussed it. can you believe that going into a pitch meeting and you haven't actually. so we kind of said, well, we're going to try and make a humorous programme with jokes, you know, to make people laugh and, and 93951 to make people laugh and, and gags, very specific . very gags, very specific. very specific. and we went on like this for a bit and he said, you're to going have are you going guest stars? we going to have a guest stars? we said , are we are we going to said, are we are we going to have guests ? what about music? have guests? what about music? we oh, music . that's we said, oh, music. that's a good idea. it was a bizarre style. and he looked at us pityingly and he said, go away. and make 13 programmes unbuilt ,

achievable. >> but then when it comes to fawlty towers, that seems like something that was very planned or very structured and very fairly or very structured and very fair i' i or very structured and very fairi' i went out to dinner >> i mean, i went out to dinner with jemmy gilbert, directed with jemmy gilbert, who directed me report with the me in the frost report with the two ronnies and david frost. yes. he he said, what do you yes. and he he said, what do you want to do after python? and i said, i'd like to do something with my wife , connie booth. and said, i'd like to do something witsaidr wife , connie booth. and said, i'd like to do something witsaid ,wife , connie booth. and said, i'd like to do something witsaid , what? ionnie booth. and said, i'd like to do something witsaid , what? innie booth. and said, i'd like to do something witsaid , what? i said,300th. and said, i'd like to do something witsaid , what? i said, i)oth. and said, i'd like to do something witsaid , what? i said, i don't\nd he said, what? i said, i don't know. and he said, well, go back and talk and let me know and i'll commission it. >> isn't that incredible? that level of trust, extraordinary. mean. >> and then i said, we >> and then i said, well, we stayed torquay . we stayed in a hotel in torquay. we like about that . so he like to write about that. so he said, okay. and he commissioned like to write about that. so he saandnkay. and he commissioned like to write about that. so he saandnkaymade he commissioned like to write about that. so he saandnkaymade it. commissioned like to write about that. so he saandnkaymade it. butmissioned like to write about that. so he saandnkaymade it. but they oned it and we made it. but they trust us. they trusted us, except after the first show, he said to me , john, you're going said to me, john, you're going to have to get them out of the hotel. more terrible idea. >> i mean, we were talking about this the other night, but i did find it astonishing when you told me that so many of the critics were against fawlty towers when out. towers when it came out. >> oh, they like it at all. >> daily mirror said long john

short on jokes. yes the spectator hated it. but spectator hated it. but spectator magazine . yeah. and it spectator magazine. yeah. and it was it was some time because if you do anything very new, it does make some take some time for people to get used to it and decide, oh, i like it or i don't like it. but at the beginning it was like monty python, the critics couldn't couldn't make anything of monty python. so they describe what happened in they describe what happened in the programme without saying whether it was good or bad . and whether it was good or bad. and yes, and then after the first series, a lovely guy called alan coren, he used to be the editor of punch . he wrote a very nice of punch. he wrote a very nice review in the times and suddenly everyone decided it was a good show . so it's all very random. show. so it's all very random. and there's a lot of luck involved. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> is that the case with your films as well? with fish called wanda and that kind of thing? >> yes. no, mgm told me >> oh, yes, yes. no, mgm told me it was the most terrible title and seriously, really ? oh yes. and seriously, really? oh yes. they were completely against. >> what did they want to call

it? >> i can't remember. i cannot . >> i can't remember. i cannot. but this is the problem. this is a very few people know what they're doing. and takes you they're doing. and it takes you when you get older. it takes you some time to realise that most people don't know know what they're talking about, you know? so then what would you suggest to sort of young up and coming comedy writers just do their own thing, or do they have to play the game? >> extent, i would say >> to an extent, i would say murder everyone at the bbc and star again start again with people who understand a little bit about creative liberty and then you'll have a chance. >> yeah, othennise it's all done by committee because there are people at the bbc now, they only have one thought when they go into work in the morning, they have one thought, which is to day i must not get fired. you see, i will. i will come out of it at the end of the day, they've still got their job. they've had a good day. they

should be in the business of making the best possible programmes british public. >> i should point out that you public. >> i speaking)int out that you public. >> i speaking figuratively you were speaking figuratively about murdering that murdering the bbc, but even that wasn't even 150,000 people die every day. >> a few more from the bbc, but actually this is a key point. >> literal mindedness in a sense.i >> literal mindedness in a sense. i have to point that out because someone will be watching. they'll complain, they'll say he's actually calling violence against the calling for violence against the bbc and you have to kind of you have to explain it, of course, othennise, the there are othennise, because the there are always literal minded people amongst us. >> you know , and they're not >> you know, and they're not playing with the full deck. but we but we have to sort of humour them. it was a great example of recently oxfam put out a pamphlet advising the people who work for oxfam about to how talk to people. and they said , don't to people. and they said, don't if you support their ideas, don't say that you stand with them because it may upset at

people who are unable to . stand people who are unable to. stand well , john, on that note , i'm well, john, on that note, i'm afraid that's all we've got time for. >> but dinosaur, our 29th of october, i'm really looking fonnard to that. >> going out. yes. and give it a chance. have a look at the first two. and the first one is particularly good because it is critical of the press. the right wing press. and i did that first because some people thought that because some people thought that because i was doing a show for gb news, i'd always been a closet . closet. >> well, there we are. that's the bit that's going to get cupped the bit that's going to get clipped and put online. but thank you very much. john cleese

radio. and welcome back to free speech nation. >> now my next guest is

professor eric kaufmann , who professor eric kaufmann, who faced calls to be cancelled from students and other staff members when he was professor of politics at birkbeck university of london, where his research focussed on immigration, nationalism and religion . nationalism and religion. >> professor kaufmann has now decided course at the decided to start a course at the university of buckingham, which he calling faculty of he is calling a faculty of common sense. centre for common sense. the centre for heterodox social science will offer a 15 week online course about the woke ideology. professor eric kaufmann joins me now. welcome to the show. >> great to be here. thanks so , >> great to be here. thanks so, eric, firstly , what do you mean eric, firstly, what do you mean by woke ideology ? by woke ideology? >> because there's a lot of confusion around the term, right? >> i always say woke one sentence. it's making sacred of historically marginalised race, gender and minority gender and sexual minority groups a groups that is woke in a sentence. so you buy groups that is woke in a sentthat, so you buy groups that is woke in a sentthat, anything you buy groups that is woke in a sentthat, anything that'ou buy groups that is woke in a sentthat, anything that might! into that, anything that might offend the sensitive offend the most sensitive hypothetical member of any of these groups becomes cause for blasphemy. must be excommunicated. >> well, it also an >> well, it also has an authoritarian component, which is those cross the is that those who do cross the line have be shut down and line have to be shut down and silenced rather than argued with. i suppose, of course, because committed

because they've committed blasphemy and therefore they must excommunicated . and must be just excommunicated. and you've direct experience you've had direct experience of this i've spoken this and you know, i've spoken to number of academics who to a number of academics who do tell situation is tell me that the situation is worse imagine. worse than people even imagine. is is. is that right? yes, it is. >> right. mean, higher >> right. i mean, higher education west, including education in the west, including britain, heavily corrupted by britain, is heavily corrupted by woke ideology . and that can take woke ideology. and that can take a number of different forms . it a number of different forms. it seeps into the administration. but more particularly into the kind of peer pressures over what you're to research, what you're allowed to research, what perspectives to perspectives you're allowed to hold on those research. so if we're talking about a race or gender gap, can be gender gap, that can only be explained by discrimination, right? if you can't identify right? and if you can't identify it, structural it, it's structural discrimination. what of discrimination. but what of course, that means is we're not necessarily getting the necessarily getting at the truth. what are the real truth. right? what are the real reasons why there might be a gap which might be interesting and we able to fix that? we might be able to fix that? well interesting because well that's interesting because when the when you had the report, the committee, on race committee, the committee on race and disparities, they and ethnic disparities, and they found of structural found no evidence of structural racism within, say, the education were education system, they were accused racist for accused of being racist for denying the truth of structural racism. >> right. racism. >> so jht. racism. >> so if .. racism. >> so if you are anti anyone who

wears the label anti—racist or anti—trans , whatever, or pro anti—trans, whatever, or pro trans, sorry, then you become immediately labelled as a racist or transphobe or whatever. and so that is the sort of way this game is played. >> can that work in >> but how can that work in terms freedom? terms of academic freedom? because study because if you can't study something on honestly and objectively without being branded of branded hateful, it kind of limits the of what higher limits the scope of what higher education can achieve. exactly. >> of truth seeking >> so the sort of truth seeking mission of academia, both in research and teaching, is being systematically corrupted by these being systematically corrupted by the: up being systematically corrupted by the:up by being systematically corrupted by the:up by woke being systematically corrupted by the:up by woke ideology. weing systematically corrupted by the:up by woke ideology. sog set up by woke ideology. so you're not allowed to step. s0 you're not allowed to step. so an example or it might be just very difficult. an example might be, have been very difficult. an example might be, papers have been very difficult. an example might be, papers that have been very difficult. an example might be, papers that look ve been very difficult. an example might be, papers that look at been many papers that look at discriminatory discrimination against women in academia , against women in academia, academic publishing, whatever you know, one study found some anti female discrimination and most of the studies find either anti male or no discrimination. the one study, which is quite low powered that found discrimination against women has been cited vastly more than any of the others. and that's again what i mean about the skewing of the systematic skewing of this

perspective and if you want to be promoted, published, etcetera, avoid taking etcetera, you just avoid taking an unpopular stance. but you didn't, did you know, and it's a bit like gb news sort of forging against the grain of the existing ecosystem. i mean , 181 existing ecosystem. i mean, 181 institutions in britain , institutions in britain, university of buckingham is the only one that elevates academic freedom above, say, social justice and all other values. and so that is the only place it's a small institution, but it's a small institution, but it's the only place that can be independent and a free university. people will be surprised at that, though. >> what >> the idea that from what you're saying correct me if you're saying and correct me if i'm i'm wrong, that i'm if i'm wrong, that universities effectively universities are effectively captured ideologically and are passing to students , passing that on to students, which really what they're which is not really what they're there is it? there for, is it? >> no, i mean, they should be truth seeking institutions, but they social they are morphing into social justice so justice first institutions. so we'll as long as it we'll do truth as long as it doesn't bump into social justice, in which case we're going to put truth back in its place. right. so that's so what will you be doing then at the university of buckingham? >> faculty. >> you've got this new faculty. uh, deal

there? >> yeah, there's a couple of things this 15 things going on. first, this 15 week on woke, week online course on woke, which anybody the world can which anybody in the world can take. yes. so that's the one thing we're starting in january. they can do it online as well. they can do it online as well. they can do it online as well. they can do it online. is fully online. and so if you go to my twitter, see the sign twitter, you can see the sign up. going doing up. then i'm going to be doing a launching this new research institute, going institute, which is going to be called centre for heterodox called the centre for heterodox social science. we're social science. so we're just going truth. we're going to pursue the truth. we're going to pursue the truth. we're going make up for all going to try and make up for all those of that have those lines of inquiry that have been down, we been shut down, right? so we want actually reorient. want to actually just reorient. we're to we're happy to have counter—arguments, want counter—arguments, but we want to have the arguments put to have all of the arguments put onto the table so that we can evaluate scientifically. evaluate them scientifically. >> mean, it sounds like >> well, i mean, it sounds like a endeavour. you must be a great endeavour. you must be looking it. looking fonnard to it. >> i mean, i've >> very much so. i mean, i've kind been looking fonnard kind of been looking fonnard to this long time, this freedom for a long time, you so it's really you know, and so it's really kind able to do it kind of nice to be able to do it and just to say, let's and actually just to say, let's put out it's going put this out there, it's going to of hopefully be to to sort of hopefully be help to i won't revive academia, but i won't say revive academia, but at least inject a little more diversity into it. absolutely. at least inject a little more divnericy into it. absolutely. at least inject a little more divneric kaufman,ibsolutely. much >> eric kaufman, thanks so much for thank you. forjoining me. thank you. appreciate right. thank appreciate it. all right. thank

you . so next on free speech you. so next on free speech nation, i'm going to be asking why environmental activist are targeting works of art to try and highlight their cause. see you in a few moments .

woo woo . welcome back to free woo woo. welcome back to free speech nation. with me, andrew doyle. this week, activists from just stop oil charged onto the stage at the sondheim theatre in london during a performance of les miserables. here's a clip . les miserables. here's a clip. take your chance. >> the blood of the martyrs, the has made us cry. dup. >> the blood of the martyrs, the has made us cry. dup . the >> the blood of the martyrs, the has made us cry . dup . the people has made us cry. dup. the people sing. singing the song of freedom . now you might be freedom. now you might be thinking, what has this musical adaptation of victor hugo's classic novel got to do with climate change? >> nothing all. but for

>> well, nothing at all. but for some environmental some reason, environmental activists are now routinely targeting a means, a targeting the arts as a means, a means raise awareness of means to raise awareness of their this their cause. in may of this yean their cause. in may of this year, activists climbed into the their cause. in may of this year, fountain climbed into the their cause. in may of this year, fountain inmbed into the their cause. in may of this year, fountain in romeinto the their cause. in may of this year, fountain in rome and the trevi fountain in rome and poured vegetable charcoal into the water. and this could have caused permanent damage to the stonework this beautiful 18th stonework of this beautiful 18th century baroque construction on. but didn't care but apparently they didn't care . and in october year, just . and in october last year, just stop. oil activists threw tomato soup over van goghs sunflowers at the national gallery in london and then glued themselves to the wall. here's what they had to say . had to say. >> what is worth more art or life ? is it worth more than life? is it worth more than food? worth more than justice. >> are you more concerned about the protection of a painting or the protection of a painting or the protection of our planet and people ? people? >> she sounds quite posh , >> she sounds quite posh, doesn't she? it's no great surprise there. we have grown accustomed to being hectored about oppression by some of the most privileged people in society, irrespective of society, but irrespective of that, her argument does seem to

me to be a bit tenuous. of course, we might well say that in the in targeting the arts, the activists guaranteeing activists are guaranteeing publicity for their and publicity for their movement and their . i mean, i'm talking their right. i mean, i'm talking about right now , but perhaps about it right now, but perhaps what they fail appreciate is what they fail to appreciate is that every stunt of this kind just more people off their just turns more people off their cause. just turns more people off their cause . i'm just turns more people off their cause. i'm all just turns more people off their cause . i'm all peaceful cause. i'm all for peaceful protest , even, and especially protest, even, and especially when i don't agree with the protesters beliefs. but vandalism and criminal damage isn't something i can accept. and the desecration of great art is, to my mind, unforgivable. all but why arts of all all but why the arts of all things the choreographer, rosie kaye, has an interesting theory about this. she said it's a very nasty attack on people's psyche . when you go into a space such as a theatre a gallery, you as a theatre or a gallery, you open up a part of your imagination that allows you to be sabotaging everyone be free by sabotaging everyone in safe space. in the genuinely safe space. they are savaging your spirit of discovery, which is an excellent point. there is something essentially anti—human about the more extreme environmentalist cause and indeed the same is true of culture warriors more

generally . it's as though they generally. it's as though they see western civilisation itself as a cancer that must be destroyed . and so of course destroyed. and so of course there's no harm in attacking a painting by van gogh. he was just an oppressive, straight white after all. although white male after all. although given that suffered from given that he suffered from psychiatric throughout psychiatric illness throughout his life, probably manic depression and eventually committed i'm not so committed suicide, i'm not so sure that his white privilege was any consolation. many of today's environmental activists are products of identity are products of this identity obsessed worldview. it's why extinct rebellion co—founder stuart basden argued that his movement isn't about the climate . he said it was concerned with overturning white supremacy, the patriarchy eurocentrism heteronormative city and class hierarchy . and so if you have hierarchy. and so if you have that mindset, why should the arts be respected, seen through the lens of identitarian monomakh via the mona lisa is little more than oils and pigments daubed onto poplar wood by a powerful white male for the benefit of other powerful white males . art, literature, culture. males. art, literature, culture. these things are now perceived

as a kind of elaborate power grab , which is why museums and grab, which is why museums and libraries are so often targets for what they call decolonisation . so we shouldn't decolonisation. so we shouldn't we shouldn't really be surprised that an activist smeared cake on the mona lisa in may of last yean the mona lisa in may of last year, while shouting about the destruction planet . and destruction of the planet. and if thinking to yourself, if you're thinking to yourself, well masterpieces have well, these masterpieces have protective glass , there's no protective glass, there's no harm. again , because harm. well, think again, because the who attacked the mona the vandal who attacked the mona lisa actually tried to break the glass first in an effort to damage the artwork itself. we are with are dealing with a catastrophizing mindset that sees art as little more than a futile hobby, a distraction from the greater cause . of course, the greater cause. of course, jumping on stage during a production of les murs is hardly comparable to destroying the mona lisa, but it does reveal something disturbing about a worldview that doesn't recognise the importance of artistic endeavour. the importance of artistic endeavour . for great art endeavour. for great art represents the height of human achievement , offering us those achievement, offering us those rare glimpses of the numinous that enliven our existence. but the activists , they can't see the activists, they can't see that for them, humanity is

itself a curse on the planet and our artistic creations are therefore meaningless . how long therefore meaningless. how long will it be before an activist sets fire to a titian or carves political slogans into a botticelli with a pen knife? the destruction of art is always an authoritarian act, and if you don't believe these activists would ever stoop so low , you would ever stoop so low, you really haven't understood the soulless ness of their creed . soulless ness of their creed. okay, so we've got some time here. let's see what our panel makes of that. paul, do you have anyinkung makes of that. paul, do you have any inkling as to why it is that environmental activists go after artworks all the time? it seems to be their thing now. >> yes. and i mean, that was a really evocative monologue . well really evocative monologue. well done, really. it really done, andrew. really. it really did me think on the spot did make me think on the spot about a number there did make me think on the spot acan'ta number there did make me think on the spot acan't reallyber there did make me think on the spot acan't really grasp there did make me think on the spot acan't really grasp the there did make me think on the spot acan't really grasp the tofre i can't really grasp the idea of why and would have why, why, and i would have thought bastion of the thought the last bastion of the people would have supported people that would have supported just were the white just stop oil were the white middle classes that would have gone to the theatre to see

lamia's . yeah. and they've lamia's. yeah. and they've essentially attacked them now. so whilst i don't, i met i essentially attacked them now. so whilst i don't, i meti meet so whilst i don't, i met i meet many people who don't like just stop oil, but i don't meet lots of people who want to see the earth burn, but they just cannot stand people to the point stand these people to the point that i've actually spoken to someone who said i'd rather the earth burned than these people win. mean , that's quite extreme. >> but then other hand, extreme. >> buiithen other hand, extreme. >> buii know other hand, extreme. >> buii know a other hand, extreme. >> buii know a lot other hand, extreme. >> buii know a lot ofher hand, extreme. >> buii know a lot of people d, bruce, i know a lot of people who are concerned about the who are very concerned about the planet, concerned about planet, very concerned about climate change, but can't climate change, but they can't stand doing this stand these activists doing this sort because the stand these activists doing this sort is, because the stand these activists doing this sort is, first because the stand these activists doing this sort is, first of because the stand these activists doing this sort is, first of all,ause the stand these activists doing this sort is, first of all, a se the stand these activists doing this sort is, first of all, a hammer thing is, first of all, a hammer should to these people should be taken to these people seriously . seriously. >> that's my personal. >> that's just my personal. >> that's just my personal. >> we're not being >> of course, we're not being literal >> of course, we're not being lite i ll >> of course, we're not being litei just have to emphasise that. >> more art. >> more art. >> oh, no, i am. but the fact of the matter is people like what is what is the cost of a west end ticket? why are you going into cost of living into it? in a cost of living crisis? people want to go out crisis? if people want to go out and enjoy themselves, i understand all understand your aims and all that go that kind of stuff. go and target that can actually target people that can actually make a change in this situation. >> so i suppose their argument is everyone does end up talking

about it because it's so upsetting because like you say, people have spent so much money. upsetting because like you say, peo but have spent so much money. upsetting because like you say, peo but then spent so much money. upsetting because like you say, peo but then spent was nuch money. >> but then there was that thing. did see on x or thing. did you see that on x or twitter or whatever it's called? there a stop oil person there was a just stop oil person sitting their t shirt on sitting in their t shirt on a plane. ibiza. plane. yes. going to ibiza. >> there's >> are you saying there's a degree hypocrisy in the. degree of hypocrisy in the. >> i am. i'm saying seriously that one. take it to them. >> well, you can have a conversation without inciting violence. don't you tell me violence. why don't you tell me what you think about kind what you think about that kind of i mean, is that of hypocrisy? i mean, is that the people the thing that's putting people off course it is. and the >> of course it is. and the whole thing is hypocrisy, at least greta thunberg. god bless her. boat when her. she took a boat when she went didn't didn't she went to, didn't she? didn't she sail one sail to the states one time? yes, did. and you know, yes, she did. and you know, i mean, must have regretted mean, she must have regretted it. she didn't it. i'm surprised she didn't change mind after she got change her mind after she got there, that's what there, but at least that's what she these who there, but at least that's what sh(on these who there, but at least that's what sh(on planes 1ese who there, but at least that's what sh(on planes were who there, but at least that's what sh(on planes were just who there, but at least that's what sh(on planes were just upvho sit on the planes were just up all t shirts. you know, if you said them, we're just to said to them, we're just to going putting the going stop putting oil in the aeroplane, they'd a panic. aeroplane, they'd have a panic. >> course. and >> yeah, of course. and you know, can't. i mean, i suppose know, i can't. i mean, i suppose it's bit low for me to point it's a bit low for me to point out posh that girl was. but out how posh that girl was. but on can't help on the other hand, i can't help but they're all but notice that they're all really really really posh and really privileged of course, if

privileged because of course, if you all of the demands you implement all of the demands that requiring the that they're requiring or the net going to net zero things, it's going to affect society. net zero things, it's going to affe most society. net zero things, it's going to affe most they society. net zero things, it's going to affemost they they society. net zero things, it's going to affemost they they thinkty. net zero things, it's going to affemost they they think they >> most they they i think they genuinely don't understand hand how a normal person to how it is for a normal person to survive. can't survive. i know you can't actually say what a normal person is, let's just say person is, but let's just say for argument of debate, for the argument of this debate, a class a working person of any class that has to pay bills and is not independently wealthy and doesn't independently wealthy and does are those people there want they are those people there want to save the earth as well . to save the earth as well. however, you know, it comes at a big cost. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> okay. well, look, that's the end of our first hour on free speech nation. but please don't go there's lot go away because there's a lot more between now and more to come between now and 9:00. to be speaking 9:00. we're going to be speaking to london assembly member to the london assembly member who is kicked the tory who is kicked out of the tory party conference after heckling suella braverman do not go anywhere .

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us >> there's plenty more still to come on free speech nation this

week, including some more questions from this fantastic studio audience. but let's get a news update first from ray addison . addison. >> good evening. our top story tonight, the prime minister rishi sunak, says the uk is ready to provide any support that israel needs after it was attacked by the terrorist organisation hamas. now, those of you watching on television can see live footage of gaza where israel says 800 hamas targets have been hit, killing hundreds of fighters with dozens more captured . earlier, israel's more captured. earlier, israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu said they will turn anywhere hamas terrorists are hiding into an island of ruins and urged the people of gaza to leave those areas. now more than 700 israelis were killed and more than 1500 injured in yesterday's surprise attack. nathaniel young, a 20 year old british man serving in the israeli army, was also killed . israeli army, was also killed. and at least 400 palestinians

have died after hamas fired thousands of rockets and gunmen stormed the border . stormed the border. >> the scenes that we've seen in israel over the past 36 hours are truly horrifying . i want to are truly horrifying. i want to express my absolute solidarity for the people of israel . now is for the people of israel. now is not a time for equivocation , and not a time for equivocation, and i'm unequivocal. hamas and the people who support hamas are fully responsible for this appalling act of terror for the murder of civilians and for the kidnapping of innocent people, including children . i've just including children. i've just spoken with prime minister netanyahu to assure him of the uk's steadfast support . uk's steadfast support. >> well, that was rishi sunak sunak lieutenant colonel richard hecht is the idf's international spokesperson . he described the spokesperson. he described the scene on the ground and the visuals are isil visuals . visuals are isil visuals. >> in a way, this is our 9/11. this is our 9/11. and you know, even more than that, i mean, it wasn't crashing into a building. it's also so mutilating and

attacking a party that was happening around the gaza strip. nature party , attacking nature party, attacking civilians, kidnapping a grandmother. >> and finally , gb news >> and finally, gb news understands that labour plans to appoint a covid corruption commissioner if the party wins the next general election . in the next general election. in this new role is designed to help recoup billions of pounds of taxpayers money lost during the pandemic. of taxpayers money lost during the pandemic . bc labour says it the pandemic. bc labour says it believes they were cases of waste, fraud and flawed contracts. shadow chancellor rachel reeves is expected to make the announcement shortly this is gb news across the uk on tv , in your car, on digital tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now let's get back to free speech nafion.

nation. in welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. >> we have a wonderful studio audience here tonight so we don't want them to go to waste. let's get some questions. and our first question is from chris. where chris? hi, chris. >> should there be sensitive to readers? yes >> so a story this week >> so there's a story this week about novelist ian mcewan, about the novelist ian mcewan, who wrote atonement various who wrote atonement and various other the garden other things, the cement garden . called new . and he's called for new authors to be brave this week. he wants them not to be afraid of offending people with their writing and he specifically has criticised sensitivity readers. pauli criticised sensitivity readers. paul i think a lot of people might but basically might not know, but basically publishing hire for these publishing houses hire for these readers. submit a novel. readers. so you submit a novel. a sensitivity reader will tell you whether offensive or you whether it's offensive or not, should not, which bits you should change. going on? change. farage what's going on? >> , all nonsense is what's >> well, all nonsense is what's going on in terms of historical books. absolutely not. at no point should it ever be touched. it should be just as the writer wrote it and published it whenever that might be in in all its glory. yes. and you know what? i don't even think we should apologise in should apologise for anything in there. is

there. we should say this is a measurement the time. it took measurement of the time. it took place. this is how people felt . place. this is how people felt. you can be offended by it, but we care. now if what about we don't care. now if what about new novelists? that's he's new novelists? that's what he's talking about. that's so i talking about. so that's so i think much more think that's much more interesting. an interesting. now. we live in an environment now where this is inevitable . so you couldn'tjust inevitable. so you couldn't just write you lived in the write as if you lived in the 18th century. in fact, you probably 18th century. in fact, you pr(because 18th century. in fact, you prtbecause we've 18th century. in fact, you pr(because we've learned to because we've learned and we've progressed then, we've progressed since then, somebody some people would say culturally sure that we culturally, i'm not sure that we have. however i culturally, i'm not sure that we have. howeveri don't culturally, i'm not sure that we have. however i don't think that even if i was to sit here now and say we definitely shouldn't have that, that that would make any difference, i think this is inevitable. this we're inevitable. we're on this we're on journey now where on this journey now where everything's be everything's going to be measured against woke ideology . measured against woke ideology. >> bruce, isn't the point of writing sometimes that you are writing sometimes that you are writing about characters and places and people you don't know that you? because that aren't you? because othennise would othennise everything would be an autobiography you're going autobiography, so you're going to offence to risk causing offence sometimes, to risk causing offence sorbutnes, to risk causing offence sor but then just being alive >> but then just being alive risks causing offence doesn't it? and why are people so scared of a surprise? why people of a surprise? why do people need what they're need to know what they're getting you know, the

getting into? you know, read the book. it, you book. if you don't like it, you don't it's not really don't like it. it's not really going to impact on your life. yeah, i can see. so yeah, as far as i can see. so i'm just a bit like really? >> well, even had the poet >> well, we even had the poet kate a was using kate clanchy who had a was using it. a poet, so she uses it. she's a poet, so she uses metaphor here was metaphor here and she was talking about deformity within a landscape. she was describing a landscape. she was describing a landscape. sensitivity landscape. and the sensitivity reader be reader said that would be offensive people who have offensive to people who have disfigured everything is offensive and where do you offensive to and where do you draw the line the fence? draw the line with the fence? >> you know, it's an ongoing thing. do you agree? thing. do you not agree? >> absolutely. the >> no, absolutely. the sensitivity there, i'm sensitivity reader there, i'm offended by his slacks. >> haven't said anything. what >> i haven't said anything. what do you have bruce ? well, do you have now, bruce? well, you know, but i'm not i'm not triggered. it's funny, i'm going on australia . the i'm on tour in australia. the i'm the up for kylie and we had the warm up for kylie and we had to fill out this thing for whatever festival. or is there anything in the show that will trigger people? yeah, me. you know , that's, that's the whole know, that's, that's the whole thing. that's interesting because touring because aren't you touring with mary burke? >> . >> yes. >> yes. >> and mary, of course, was on this show because she had she was from a performance was cancelled from a performance at club brighton at a comedy club in brighton because a few activists had

basically contacted the venue and we're offended some and said, we're offended by some of she would upset of her jokes and she would upset us. so they pulled gig, us. and so they pulled her gig, cost you know, this us. and so they pulled her gig, cosyou you know, this us. and so they pulled her gig, cosyou know, you know, this us. and so they pulled her gig, cosyou know, it's’ou know, this us. and so they pulled her gig, cosyou know, it's not(now, this us. and so they pulled her gig, cosyou know, it's not good this us. and so they pulled her gig, cosyou know, it's not good fors is, you know, it's not good for the arts, is it? >> that possible? what >> how is that possible? what sort art or or sort of art or comedy or anything would you want anything creative would you want to see that's created by somebody who ticks all the boxes? imagine how dull that would be. >> really dull. really dull . >> really dull. really dull. okay. right. well, let's move on to question now. this to another question now. this one from alex. is alex? hi. >> should the nhs grant paid leave for the male menopause ? leave for the male menopause? >> yes. yes >> yes. yes >> this is interesting. so it's an nhs trust . >> this is interesting. so it's an nhs trust. it's >> this is interesting. so it's an nhs trust . it's allowing an nhs trust. it's allowing staff members to take a year of paid leave for the male menopause. but i paid leave for the male menopause. buti don't paid leave for the male menopause. but i don't think the male menopause is recognised clinically , is it? it's more clinically, is it? it's more a kind of state of mind, isn't it ? >>i ? >> i don't know what you want me to say. i want . i >> i don't know what you want me to say. i want. i don't understand the question and i won't respond to it. i'm i am not sure what the male menopause is meant to be. >> that's because you're suffering from it. >> do you think i'm going? i'm going through my own personal

summer. i don't if summer. yes. so i don't know if it's flashes do with jen it's hot flashes to do with jen or hormones or it? or hormones or what is it? >> we've covered on >> we've covered this on headliners essentially headliners and it's essentially manifests itself in a belly and moobs. so i fear i fear . well, moobs. so i fear i fear. well, you're well in there and i'm. >> well, you can't have time off for that, can you? >> you're not going to give me any time off here. if i call up and say, andrew, sorry, i can't do. i've got my boobs. do. fsn yes, i've got my boobs. you're to say, just you're going to say, just get in, mate. you're going to say, just get in, yeah, of course, and rightly so. >> and i think the trouble with this is what we've what we've seen who have seen this week is women who have the menopause complaining the real menopause complaining and saying, look, we've just starting to get some recognition for our condition. yeah. which is two demonstrably, demonstrably true . and now demonstrably true. and now you're saying just because you're saying just because you're a little bit sleepy and ovenneight, need some time ovenneight, you need some time off that doesn't not off work. that doesn't it's not going it's not going to work, going to it's not going to work, is it? >> all right. so let's move on to a question from leslie. where's hi, leslie. hello. is picasso about be >> is picasso about to be cancelled ? cancelled? >> yeah. so this is a new bbc documentary. i've quite a documentary. i've heard quite a lot picasso the last

lot about picasso over the last year hannah lot about picasso over the last year did hannah lot about picasso over the last year did something hannah lot about picasso over the last year did something han|how gadsby did something about how offensive was her offensive picasso was in her special and there's been lots of. i wouldn't that far, but of. i wouldn't go that far, but there lots of sort of stuff there were lots of sort of stuff about picasso. this is a new documentary. bbc. they're documentary. the bbc. they're exploring side exploring the darker side of pablo and, know , he pablo picasso. and, you know, he did was promised guus. did have he was promised guus. he did have lots of lovers. he was there were reports of his misogynistic attitude . does that misogynistic attitude. does that matter when it comes to his art? in other words, this is the old question of do we separate the art artist ? art from the artist? >> it matters , no. >> i don't think it matters, no. and the reason i paused there is you can think of a million people. i've not got any rolf harris i think harris art at home, and i think we probably should be we should be to separate in some way. >> but because you sold it all on ebay. well, yeah. >> and so. but with >> yeah. and so. but with picasso, right. okay. he was. he was a man of his time, wasn't he? say this with some he? now i say this with some jeopardy about jeopardy because i've read about him a little bit recently. and he he was a womaniser and at he was he was a womaniser and at least two of his lovers committed suicide as a result of being relationships him. being in relationships with him. he lots of women.

he impregnated lots of women. i mean, he sounded like he was having time. but but but mean, he sounded like he was hatoday's time. but but but mean, he sounded like he was hatoday's within ne. but but but mean, he sounded like he was hatoday's within today's but but in today's within today's against today's paradigm, shall we say , it's not cool. no. we say, it's not cool. no. >> i mean, bruce, can you separate the art from the artist? if someone said to you , artist? if someone said to you, dannfi artist? if someone said to you, dannii minogue in her spare time has been beating badgers to death with a club, could you still listen to her greatest hits? do you know? >> i could , because club disco >> i could, because club disco was one of her best albums ever. so yeah, i think that's the thing i think you have to give up your level of hypocrisy. i don't think danny would do that. she's a vegetarian, so i don't think she'd club it well. but that's the thing. you don't lead with mass with the fact that a mass murderer or that you harm animals that kind of animals and all that kind of stuff. but no , i'm not stuff. but no, i'm not suggesting for a second that. >> danny no, no, for goodness sake. >> no, absolutely. >> no, absolutely. >> she's a saint. >> she's a saint. >> the woman is an absolute angel >> she absolutely is morally pure in every respect. >> i think so. but don't you think know, think but, you know, we're talking artists the talking about artists from the past, do past, you know, didn't do particularly you particularly nice things. you know, a lot of them. christopher marlowe someone

marlowe killed someone in the street. burroughs, marlowe killed someone in the street. burns, burroughs, marlowe killed someone in the street. burns, burrotahs, marlowe killed someone in the street. burns, burrota partner, robert burns, he was a partner, a philanderer. >> know , used women for >> and, you know, used women for his own gain and all that kind of allegedly . yes. of poet allegedly. yes. >> yes. how do you feel about that? >> i am always very keen to hear both sides of the argument . okay. >> do you think that's a fair point, that he shouldn't be the national poet anymore because of what he did or. >> i don't. i think his body >> no, i don't. i think his body of work speaks for itself. >> very interesting. i think this of debate to this sort of debate is going to go on and on, isn't it? but it's always interesting. going always interesting. we're going to question from to move on to a question from edward. is edward? edward. where is edward? >> the axe newsnight? >> should the bbc axe newsnight? >> should the bbc axe newsnight? >> basically they had a >> yeah, so basically they had a debate on newsnight this week about gb news. and it was very unbalanced. actually, it was last week, wasn't it? the debate was last but week was last week, but this week they've admitted, that it they've admitted, ed, that it was . it it wasn't it was not comply. it it wasn't it was not comply. it it wasn't it was it wasn't sufficiently impartial. they basically had three people all of them three people on all of them attacked and two of attacked gb news and two of them, a conservative them, including a conservative mp, news be taken mp, said gb news should be taken off now, for me , when off the air. now, for me, when politicians are calling for new stations to be taken off the

air, that's soviet, isn't air, that's a bit soviet, isn't it? it's very telling. yeah, air, that's a bit soviet, isn't it? very t's very telling. yeah, air, that's a bit soviet, isn't it? very telling. telling. yeah, it's very telling. >> i mean, i don't think it should be axed in the same way. i don't think anything really should be axed. i think it should be axed. i think it should just we should just be more about it. they more honest about it. they should honest about should be more honest about it. they know, they should say, look, you know, we are we are completely we are we are we are completely leaning this way. and this is the getting. well leaning this way. and this is the said getting. well leaning this way. and this is the said couldn't. well leaning this way. and this is the said couldn't find.l they said they couldn't find anyone to defend the channel. bruce available. available. >> available. thank >> i wasn't available. thank you. reason i wasn't you. and the reason i wasn't available was because i work as available was because i work as a fiona bruce lookalike. so i'm very, i've just very, very busy. i've just fallen . fallen off a horse. >> your commitment to your art is quite astounding. >> no idea. >> no idea. >> yeah, absolute >> yeah, it's absolute incredible. >> think you know, when >> do you think you know, when they have a debate, a supposed debate saying and debate about gb news saying and they same way at they all think the same way, at least they admitted it. least least they admitted it. at least they've it wrong. >> yeah, true. and >> yeah, no, that's true. and i think can have a think you can have a conversation. but be honest about conversation. about the conversation. that's the whole thing. >> we've got question now >> but we've got a question now from where's tommy? from tommy. where's tommy? >> hi, tommy. hi. >> hi, tommy. hi. >> brother. >> he's my twin brother. >> he's my twin brother. >> he's my twin brother. >> he's twin brother? no hello. >> are you identical twins ? >> are you identical twins? >> are you identical twins?

>> yes. goodness me . >> yes. goodness me. >> yes. goodness me. >> yeah. do you have a question or are you just here to. >> yeah. yeah. well like a kind of double act. what could be done to stop cancel culture, hurting public figures ? cancel culture? >> what do you think, tommy ? >> what do you think, tommy? >> what do you think, tommy? >> well. >> what do you think, tommy? >> well , well. it's a sensitive >> well, well. it's a sensitive issue. i think we should separate people's professional and personal lives. yes i agree. >> i mean, woody allen married his adopted daughter, but, you know . know. >> do you still like woody allen's films? >> yeah, right. >> yeah, right. >> well, what do you think, bruce? because this goes back to the danny conversation really? >> well, in a way, you know, when you have mean, tommy when you have i mean, tommy makes point that, you know, makes this point that, you know, people will try and cancel artists for moral but artists for moral behaviour, but it's just is it? it's not just that, is it? >> sometimes try and cancel >> sometimes they try and cancel artists and creatives for their opinions. jk is very opinions. jk rowling is a very good course, they good example. of course, they can't rowling can't cancel j.k. rowling because successful , but because she's so successful, but they of they do try and they do sort of push for it. >> what interesting a lot >> what is interesting is a lot of i do a of gay of and i do have a lot of gay friends, know that's a friends, i know that's a surprise to everyone in the room, i remember was

room, but i remember it was a game come out about game that had come out about harry and was a harry potter and it was a playstation game. and a lot of these guys were gamers, but they wouldn't that wouldn't publicly say that they'd the it is they'd bought the whatever it is to if you to put in the machine, if you see i because they see what i mean. because they wanted as on the wanted to be seen as on the right side of whatever the argument. >> so they can't even admit to playing. >> yes, that's the whole thing. so of, you know, so they're kind of, you know, they're that enjoy they're man that should enjoy being in a tolerant being out and in a tolerant society, closeted society, but they're closeted by the playstation. is the love of the playstation. is there a sense in there a way is there a sense in which, yeah. >> is there a sense in the >> is there a sense in which the creatives ignore creatives should just ignore all this yes, you know, this stuff? and yes, you know, well, yeah, bruce right. well, yeah, bruce is right. >> is yes. and you >> the answer is yes. and you know, the only way you can get rid of cancel culture to rid of cancel culture is to return back to return tolerance back to society. but every tolerance has gone now. there used to be a plus and —1% of each opinion. you know, either way you could. you know, either way you could. you could accept it. >> yeah, we had plurality of ideas, marketplace of ideas, and we have that anymore. we just don't have that anymore. >> all the time it is >> and all the time it is literally binary ones and zeros bad and good. you will get cancel culture because you will get two factions and one will

say good and one will say bad and one will out the other. >> and that's why you have to tolerate people of different views. mean, tolerate people of different vieanswer mean, tolerate people of different vieanswer question,nean, tolerate people of different vieanswer question, tommy, to answer your question, tommy, from my perspective is i think we have acknowledge we have to first acknowledge that many that it exists, right? so many people culture people say cancel culture doesn't exist. and, you know, i've jillian philip, i've spoken to jillian philip, children's longer a children's author, no longer a children's author, no longer a children's she children's author, because she said with jk rowling said i stand with jk rowling on a and was it. she a tweet. and that was it. she was ditched by agent, her was ditched by her agent, her publisher. retrained publisher. now she's retrained as driver. so that is an as a truck driver. so that is an example cancel culture. and example of cancel culture. and if it doesn't if you say that it doesn't exist, you have to explain why that happened. just is another example artist who had all example of an artist who had all all her items. the stuff she'd created removed from the royal academy gift shop. she was dnven academy gift shop. she was driven out soho theatre driven out of the soho theatre where worked. so so this where she worked. so so this stuff does happen right? and i think first stage. think that's the first stage. admit that it happens. stop saying it ? admit that it happens. stop saying it? stop saying it, doesn't it? stop saying it, doesn't it? stop saying j.k. rowling saying because j.k. rowling hasn't . cancel. hasn't been cancelled. cancel. culture doesn't you can't hasn't been cancelled. cancel. culturesomeone. you can't hasn't been cancelled. cancel. culturesomeone. who'syu can't hasn't been cancelled. cancel. culture someone. who's that?i't cancel someone. who's that? who's that successful cancel someone. who's that? valthough that successful cancel someone. who's that? valthough still|t successful cancel someone. who's that? valthough still not ccessful . although it's still not forgivable to be sending her threats the time, is threats all the time, which is what the activists do. >> had she not had >> had she not had she not had that money. right. she not that money. right. had she not had that legacy, she would be cancelled? absolutely. because

if was a 10th of the if she if she was a 10th of the success is now and she success that she is now and she wanted to make a comeback with a new a character or whatever new a new character or whatever it might be, itjust new a new character or whatever it might be, it just be it might be, it just wouldn't be possible wouldn't possible now. they wouldn't pubush possible now. they wouldn't publish so we've question >> okay. so we've got a question now helen. where is helen? now from helen. where is helen? hi, helen. hi. hi >> intends to have teeth >> labour intends to have teeth cleaning lessons for young children . what else? can the children. what else? can the nanny state interfere with? >> you know, i'm glad you raised this. i only heard about this today. so is it actually true? supervised tooth brushing brought into schools across? >> is that a bad thing? because i remember when i was at school, you got the disclosing tablets and you saw where the and then you saw where the plaque . does this mean we. plaque was. does this mean we. yeah i so did you go to a comprehensive live ? comprehensive live? >> it made a difference. >> it made a difference. >> it made a difference. >> i turned up. i don't know. i'm no. >> so you think. you think actually oral hygiene is important? yes. >> if there's one thing i can't abide, it's halitosis and manky teeth. >> there's no need. >> there's no need. >> i think, honestly, because the thing is, as well, when you wake with bad you're wake up with bad breath, you're aware breath. do

aware you've got bad breath. do you yes, is the you not agree? yes, is the answer. thank you. clean your answer. thank you. so clean your teeth. i don't see the teeth. so i don't see the problem with this at all. >> not that bad, is it? no. >> not that bad, is it? no. >> what's happening? well, yeah. i mean, we what's happening >> what's happening? well, yeah. i meethough, hat's happening >> what's happening? well, yeah. i meethough, ist's happening >> what's happening? well, yeah. i meethough, is we're)pening >> what's happening? well, yeah. i meethough, is we're talking here, though, is we're talking about the nanny state. we're talking labour forcing talking about labour forcing teachers to clean to help children clean their teeth at school. yes but it's to mask something else . and it's this something else. and it's this dentistry desert , as they call dentistry desert, as they call it. yes. the nhs to find an nhs dentist in the uk is like trying to find the wizard of oz. >> you can't. it is difficult. >> you can't. it is difficult. >> you can't. it is difficult. >> you seriously can't find one. >> you seriously can't find one. >> so gone private. >> so i've gone private. >> so i've gone private. >> well, exactly. >> so i've gone private. >> yeah. exactly. >> so i've gone private. >> yeah. oh ctly. >> so i've gone private. >> yeah. oh wow. >> yeah. oh wow. >> we've got the gb news money, andrew. >> we've got the gb news money, an(yeah , we as bougie. yeah, >> yeah, we as bougie. yeah, we're all on. >> it pays so much and. but what's happening is it's kind of, it's masking what the real problem is . they're saying, problem is. they're saying, look, if we teach kids to brush their teeth, we won't need to worry so much about whether dentists because dentists around because actually, statistically, children admitted children under six are admitted to much more often to hospital. much more often because their dental health because of their dental health than other health than they are any other health issue. a lot about

than they are any other health issue paul. a lot about than they are any other health issuepaul. i a lot about than they are any other health issuepaul. i did a lot about than they are any other health issuepaul. i did it| lot about than they are any other health issuepaul. i did it ont about this, paul. i did it on headunes this, paul. i did it on headlines the other night. oh, that's fine. >> well, another >> okay. well, let's get another question break. >> we've got a question from pauline. where's pauline? hi, pauline. where's pauline? hi, palum, well , pauline. where's pauline? hi, palum, well, i have the pauline. where's pauline? hi, palum, well , i have the bedbugs >> um, well, i have the bedbugs beenin >> um, well, i have the bedbugs been in the news this week? >> bedbugs? oh yuck. this is the. yeah, the paris bedbugs. >> so paris has been apparently plagued with these bedbugs, and people are worried. they're going to cross the channel can they swim? >> i've no idea . >> i've no idea. >> i've no idea. >> is that how will they come overin >> is that how will they come over in a boat? >> small boats? >> small boats? >> is that what it is? >> is that what it is? >> unbelievable. is this just a horrible racist metaphor? is that what i don't think it's meant to be? >> is, then we're just >> if it is, then we're just about so come about to indulge in it. so come on, yeah, i mean, what on, mate. but yeah, i mean, what i couldn't find in this story is exactly it manifests itself i couldn't find in this story is ex paris it manifests itself i couldn't find in this story is ex paris of it manifests itself i couldn't find in this story is ex paris of it places. its itself i couldn't find in this story is ex paris of it places. andself i couldn't find in this story is ex paris of it places. and the in paris of all places. and the reason saying might in paris of all places. and the reasnits saying might in paris of all places. and the reasnits way saying might in paris of all places. and the reasnits way to saying might in paris of all places. and the reasnits way to london might in paris of all places. and the reasnits way to london because find its way to london because if you're paris, you're only if you're in paris, you're only going to london. you're going to go to london. you're not going to go to portsmouth or southampton, guess. but is southampton, i guess. but it is that carry that people are going to carry it them. you're going to go it with them. you're going to go for a weekend. for a dirty weekend. >> but not bedbugs >> but that's not how bedbugs work. is it?

>> no, i don't think so. i haven't any i've never seen haven't got any i've never seen any. actually, >> i don't know actually, i don't any bedbugs, but i'm don't know any bedbugs, but i'm pretty sure don't on pretty sure they don't jump on you. they stay the you. they they stay in the bed. >> never been stricken by >> i've never been stricken by lice any kind. yeah, lice of any kind. yeah, absolutely and believe absolutely not. and believe me, i've done the legwork. so you know, that know, i've come out of that unscathed. oh, it's just revolting. and again, it's to do with are manky. with people that are manky. >> it's hygiene? >> you think it's hygiene? >> you think it's hygiene? >> it's different with bedbugs. >> you can be as >> no, because you can be as clean as and the clean as you like. and the bedbugs, are, they are bedbugs, they are, they are deeply embedded within bed. deeply embedded within the bed. >> format, >> is this a memory format, chns? >> is this a memory format, chractually, maybe they can't >> actually, maybe they can't get memory foam. there you go. you mm- go. you you think i'm stupid? >> can't borrow way >> can't borrow their way through heavy through sponge. i can't. heavy >> i think we've got the male menopause . menopause. >> right. that is such an interesting image to end on. >> let's go to a break now. but next on free speech nation, london assembly member andrew boff was escorted out of a speech at the tory conference this week, and he's going to be here to tell us why. don't go anywhere .

>> newsradio.

welcome back to free speech nation. >> with me, andrew doyle. the conservative party conference took place in manchester this week, and one of the speeches that made the headlines was home secretary bravermans . at secretary suella bravermans. at one braverman described one point, braverman described gender as poison , which gender ideology as poison, which prompted a response from london assembly member andrew boff, who then himself removed from then found himself removed from then found himself removed from the auditorium security. the auditorium by security. so to us about this, i'm to tell us more about this, i'm delighted to say that the conservative assembly delighted to say that the conserva'andrew assembly delighted to say that the conserva'andrew fijoins bly delighted to say that the conserva'andrew fijoins me now. member andrew boff joins me now. good evening, andrew. thanks very joining me. i want very much forjoining me. i want to talking about the to start by talking about the heckle . people describe heckle itself. people describe it heckle, but was very it as a heckle, but it was very quiet. you think the reaction quiet. do you think the reaction or do you think it was an overreaction , an um, well, overreaction, an um, well, i think they think that themselves i >> but yeah, it was an overreaction . lots of people overreaction. lots of people were making noises in the auditorium , mostly in favour to auditorium, mostly in favour to be honest, but they weren't thrown out when i raised an

objection against some of what suella was saying , i was suella was saying, i was similarly frogmarched out by the police security guards . and yeah police security guards. and yeah , well, i think actually we have some footage of that so people know what we're talking about. >> let's have a quick look at this. >> my name is andrew boff, a member of the london assembly . member of the london assembly. >> you're a tory, aren't you? >> you're a tory, aren't you? >> i'm a loyal tory for 50 years. so why were you saying why do you say that to you? >> why gb news why? >> why gb news why? >> why gb news why? >> why are you saying trash about gender? >> ideology is making our conservative party look transphobic and homophobe . this transphobic and homophobe. this is not what the conservative party is about. >> we film, as you want, standing up . standing up. >> now that's very interesting to watch because it looks like you're being frogmarched out of there. but like you say, it was a it was a quiet heckle. is there . mean, used to there. i mean, i'm used to parliamentary debates where people parliamentary debates where pe0| all of parliamentary debates where pe0|all of stuff. is there and all sorts of stuff. is there and all sorts of stuff. is there a of rule at the at the a kind of rule at the at the conference you're just conference that you're just not

meant say anything? is that meant to say anything? is that right? not either . right? no no, not either. >> i haven't read the manual properly , but, you know, my properly, but, you know, my first conservative conference was 1975. mrs. thatcher's first conference. absolutely wonderful experience, which i'll never, ever forget . um, experience, which i'll never, ever forget. um, and experience, which i'll never, ever forget . um, and debate was ever forget. um, and debate was common there. you know, you come together not, not, not not just together not, not, not not just to be, you know , photographed to be, you know, photographed next to the leader and all the rest of it. you actually come there to exchange ideas and obviously not in this case. >> so this is obviously this is a very sensitive topic, which i would argue requires debate . would argue requires debate. >> what specifically was your objection to what suella braverman was saying ? braverman was saying? >> well, it wasn't just on the gender ideology issue. there was a general feeding frenzy , as far a general feeding frenzy, as far as i could see, against vulnerable people, asylum seekers, for example , now the seekers, for example, now the majority of whom who come to this country are actually judged to be quite entitled to be here.

fleeing% nation. then she went on to trash the human rights that we've been building up in this country for well, since magna carta. really, you know , magna carta. really, you know, bill of rights, habeas corpus . bill of rights, habeas corpus. but all of that was dismissed as luxury beliefs . and then she luxury beliefs. and then she moved on to the subject of gender ideology. now, nobody's ever explained to me what gender ideology is. but what i do know, it's a term that's used by people who don't much like trans people who don't much like trans people in order to in in order to vilify them. and you know, the reason they use these terms, i've done some research in eastern europe, for example all about the term lgbt ideology where you get for example, in poland, you get villages and towns setting them up as lgbt free zones, and they're excuse is that they want to oppose lgbt

ideology. and when i quizzed them what that was, nobody seemed to know. it's just they didn't like gay people and they wanted to come up with an excuse. but do you do you seriously believe that suella braverman like gay people? >> uh, i beg your pardon. >> uh, i beg your pardon. >> sorry, but you're not seriously suggesting that suella braverman just simply doesn't like doesn't like like gay people or doesn't like trans people? >> is that what you're claiming ? >> believe words that were >> i believe the words that were probably written for her. well, ihope probably written for her. well, i hope they were written for her and she doesn't believe and that she doesn't believe them somebody them were written by somebody who quick browse of who done a quick browse of psephological prejudices and thought, well, we'll get a clap for that, won't we? because these people are slightly different from us. and therefore they must be the problem. and that's not my conservative party. never has been since party. it never has been since i've party. it never has been since pve you party. it never has been since i've you know , a member at i've been, you know, a member at a very young age. but can ask a very young age. but can i ask you, andrew, when comes to you, andrew, so when it comes to what suella braverman refers to as gender ideology or as gender, gender ideology or gender ideology, gender identity, ideology, she she's talking about very specific concerns that individuals have about the erosion of women's rights and

their spaces . yeah, but which their spaces. yeah, but which specific concerns ? because that specific concerns? because that term gender ideology i know of noidea term gender ideology i know of no idea ideology. i mean the only the only thing i know about lgbt ideology is that generally speaking, it's against people wearing cargo shorts. and as far as that , you know, there is no as that, you know, there is no none of these. well, which which incidentally, i'm fully signed up to that may say. but but i just don't see that it even exists what it is. >> andrew okay, so if i, if i put to you what i think suella braverman means by gender ideology , perhaps you can ideology, perhaps you can address it. i think she's talking belief system talking about the belief system that there are that suggests that there are dozens that we each dozens of genders that we each have innate gendered essence have an innate gendered essence or a kind of subconscious self which can be at odds with our bodies and specifically that society needs to be reorganised so that gender self—identification supersedes biological sex, even when it comes to single—sex spaces and then in addition to that, that anyone who doesn't believe that should be censored publicly

shamed, fired from their jobs, and even criminalised. is that not what she means ? not what she means? >> no, she might mean it. who believes that rubbish . believes that rubbish. >> lots of activists do . andrew >> lots of activists do. andrew and i can. i can. i can. i can send you all sorts of documents and training manuals from people who believe specifically that . who believe specifically that. and this is why women are worried about their own their single—sex spaces. do you accept, for instance, give you a specific ? jenny watson specific example? jenny watson i had on show a lesbian who set had on my show a lesbian who set up a lesbian speed dating night. i had her on the show because activists were insisting that biologic males should be able to attend that lesbian dating event. and she was inundated with threats. someone sent her a noose or an image of a noose. that's surely a problem, isn't it? when lesbians can't can't assemble without men forcing their way in? well, it certainly is. >> and nobody should. intimate date anybody. and those entities modation should probably be followed up and we should

probably embark upon persecution from people who are doing that intimidation . from people who are doing that intimidation. but one of from people who are doing that intimidation . but one of the intimidation. but one of the things that i don't know that specific case, but of course the 2010 equalities act fully allows you to set up a space for that's based upon assigned gender assigned sex at birth fully entitles you to you to do that as long as it's proportionate. we always has been. it's never a problem . why is it a problem problem. why is it a problem now? well, i think it's a problem because i think problem now because i think i think actually trying to think actually we're trying to mask more inherent mask some other more inherent problems . and i don't know why. problems. and i don't know why. you know, we've had transgender people in this country forever . people in this country forever. uh, you know, one of our greatest one of our greatest travel writers , jan morris, she travel writers, jan morris, she transitioned in the 60s. she was never a problem. >> no, i agree with you, ashley i >> why was there not a huge fuss at the time of april? ashley and you know, trans women and trans men have been using facilities

appropriate to their gender for years. why is it all of a sudden become a problem ? become a problem? >> um, i understand. >> um, i understand. >> i understand your point, andrew. i suppose what, what feminists are concerned about is that have shift, that we have had a shift, a cultural shift where more and more individuals are identifying as the other sex and exploiting that system in order, for instance , to end up in a women's instance, to end up in a women's pnson instance, to end up in a women's prison . as we saw with the prison. as we saw with the double rapist isla bryson. so thatis double rapist isla bryson. so that is a legitimate concern, isn't it? and that's something that we should having that we should be having a discussion now. discussion about. right now. >> they knew any >> nobody thought they knew any gay are you being gay people till. are you being served on the telly and then served was on the telly and then all of a sudden, you know, they suddenly realised, well, we suddenly realised, oh, well, we do people. do know gay people. >> know, i suppose, what >> they know, i suppose, what i'm saying, andrew, is i don't think don't think the think i don't think the feminists with think i don't think the femirpeople. with think i don't think the femirpeople. i've with think i don't think the femirpeople. i've never with think i don't think the femirpeople. i've never metth think i don't think the femirpeople. i've never met a trans people. i've never met a feminist who has an issue with trans about their trans people going about their lives in existing and having equal the equal rights. their worry is the nofion equal rights. their worry is the notion of self—identification being policy being applied in public policy and women's and law that affects women's sports, women's prisons, women's single on

single sex accommodation on hospital wards and domestic violence refuge centres . you can violence refuge centres. you can surely that's not surely see that's not transphobia that's attempt transphobia. that's an attempt to existing rights. to preserve existing rights. yes, yeah , but. yes, yeah, but. >> but self—id has been effective , active in most cases effective, active in most cases apart from anything that apart from legally has been . it's been from legally has been. it's been effective in most cases since the 2010 act. you know, discrimination against people because of gender identity has been has been wrong there and gender identity is established by the person themselves . the by the person themselves. the only area where we don't have self—id is where you want to get a gender recognition certificate. now, almost nobody looks at gender recognition. you know, uses a gender recognition certificate. it's very bureaucratic, but only then for a generation , a gender a generation, a gender recognition certificate does it become , you know, effectively become, you know, effectively changes your birth certificate. and that's effectively all agenda recognition certificate does nothing else. everything

else about a trans person's lives, they have rights to self id because they know what gender they are. you know , just just they are. you know, just just finally on that, though, andrew, do you accept telling us who we are? you know, do i have to pass are? you know, do i have to pass a test in to order be considered a test in to order be considered a gay man ? i do hope not. and it a gay man? i do hope not. and it would be quite interesting to see what that test might be. no, i don't. >> i don't think you have to pass whatsoever. but pass a test whatsoever. but but but do you accept, though, the possibility people can possibility that people can exploit a system of gender self—identification as has been the case in prisons? i mean, there's ovennhelming evidence that that has happened . that is that that has happened. that is something that i mean, is that something that i mean, is that something you? something that concerns you? >> isn't that ovennhelming of >> it isn't that ovennhelming of evidence of that happening when you bear in mind the number of people that are prisons, the people that are in prisons, the number who are number of people who are transgender prisons , and what transgender in prisons, and what they is they up with they do is they come up with about 1 or cases now in about 1 or 2 cases now in prisons. they tend to a lot prisons. they tend to be a lot of bad people . and so the it is

of bad people. and so the it is the duty of those prison authorities to keep people safe. and that's a failure of those pnson and that's a failure of those prison authorities of keeping people. i think, andrew, with respect , it is people. i think, andrew, with respect, it is a lot more than just a 1 or 2 cases. >> i think there's ovennhelming evidence. i mean, at the moment, to just give you some stats on this, i appreciate you. >> we won't do it now, but you just send me a list aftennards because i'd be fascinated to see the evidence that you have because it flows . take, for because it flows. take, for example, this moral panic about trans women using , uh, using trans women using, uh, using women's toilets, which they've been doing forever . been doing forever. >> okay, but let me just. okay. well, specifically on prisons . well, specifically on prisons. >> andrew no, no, let's look at that , because that's >> andrew no, no, let's look at that, because that's a common trope. well, let do you know how many cases there are of women being attacked by trans gender, women in toilets ? do you know women in toilets? do you know how many there are?

>> i do know that the research has shown that attacks in unisex toilets are much more common than in single sex toilets. >> no, no, that's not the question i asked. you can answer another question. the question i asked was in women's toilets. how many people have been attacked by trans women? >> i don't think that's the point . i >> i don't think that's the point. i don't i don't think that's the point. >> the point is about the principle of single—sex spaces and you made you made the case that prisons us that there aren't cases of prisoners self—identifying in order to be transferred. so i would ask you to explain, andrew, why it is let's give the stats one in every 250,000 women in this country are convicted sex offenders and one in every 2500 men are convicted. sex offenders and one in every 585 trans women. males who identify as female are sex offenders. so is it the case that they are exploiting a system of self—identification or are the only other alternative is that your contention that trans people are just five times more likely to be sexual predators because it's got to be one or

the other? >> what we what we do know, they aren't. and what we do know, however, that people however, is that trans people are likely to be are much more likely to be victims of crime. in fact, are much more likely to be victims of crime. in fact , last victims of crime. in fact, last yean victims of crime. in fact, last year, we don't know that the home office, those statistics are not confirmed all. are not confirmed at all. >> andrew, we could on for >> andrew, we could go on for ages i suspect we're going ages and i suspect we're going to to this, but to return to this, but unfortunately, of unfortunately, we're out of time. please do come time. but but please do come back the show. i would back on the show. i would love to this conversation to continue this conversation with you. think really with you. i think it's really important to stop me. with you. i think it's really imfand nt to stop me. with you. i think it's really imfand you to stop me. with you. i think it's really imfand you call to stop me. with you. i think it's really imfand you call thiso stop me. with you. i think it's really imfand you call thiso :freeme. >> and you call this a free speech nation. >> and you call this a free speyeah, ation. >> and you call this a free speyeah, butn. >> and you call this a free speyeah, but we also have >> yeah, but we also have timings and breaks and things timings and ad breaks and things like andrew i'm afraid like that. andrew i'm afraid we do schedule adhere to do have a schedule to adhere to . all well, next on . okay. all right. well, next on free speech nation, pm rishi sunak seems hell bent on wiping out smoking, but is this an area where the government should be intervening? to be intervening? we're going to be debating two great debating that with two great guests who hopefully will keep to don't away

radio. who . welcome back to free speech

who. welcome back to free speech nation. >> so addressing the conservative party conference on wednesday , rishi sunak pledged wednesday, rishi sunak pledged to create a smoke free generation by raising the legal age for buying cigarettes each yearin age for buying cigarettes each year in england, the prime minister said this proposed legislation would mean a 14 year old. legislation would mean a 14 year old today will never be legally >> today will never be legally sold. a cigarette. while many health charities have come out in support of sunak's plan to increase the smoking age, others say is going say the government is going beyond joining beyond its remit. so joining me now the prime now to discuss the prime minister's i'm minister's proposal, i'm delighted joined head minister's proposal, i'm delifestyle joined head minister's proposal, i'm delifestyle economics head minister's proposal, i'm delifestyle economics thead of lifestyle economics at the iea, christopher snowdon dr. iea, christopher snowdon and dr. lawrence gerlis. thank you both. ever so much for joining me. lawrence gerlis. thank you both. ever so much forjoining me. i'm going to come to you first, lawrence rishi sunak is effectively saying that we'll have two tiers of citizens. one's who, when they're older, will be able buy cigarettes will be able to buy cigarettes and that won't. do and ones that won't. do you think way think that this in any way a threat to liberties ? threat to liberties? >> well, leaving aside the practicalities of this, because people can go abroad and buy cigarettes, presumably, and there's already an alternative market in the uk for cigarettes leaving that aside, i gb news

viewers know that i'm anti the nanny state. i was anti—lockdown. i don't believe in sugar taxes. i'm pretty much a libertarian . i've been accused a libertarian. i've been accused of being a libertarian . having of being a libertarian. having said that, the problem is cigarette smoking is unique , cigarette smoking is unique, highly damaging to health, uniquely me. the problem is that message gets lost because we're told that sugar is bad for us. fat is bad for us, red meat is bad for us. and smoking is just thrown in with it. but it is in itself the worst thing for health outcomes. and let me say this again, i'm not you know, i'm not a sort of over liberal person , but there are huge person, but there are huge health inequalities in this country that is high income people have better health outcomes than low income people . and some people use that data to say, well, let's let's just redistribute wealth and that will solve the problem. the reality is it's all down to lifestyle and mainly due to cigarette smoking. that is , low

cigarette smoking. that is, low income. people smoke far , far income. people smoke far, far more than high income people. and so i actually applaud a new attempt to address the issue of smoking because i still think it's an issue. >> okay, christopher, is it worthy of applause ? worthy of applause? >> no, it's a preposterous, terrible idea. >> i mean, i actually am a libertarian. i just don't get accused of being one and smoking is not uniquely dangerous. it's just like i said, it's the most dangerous of the things that have been mentioned. >> but it's not there's nothing unique about it, is why unique about it, which is why all the who are going all the people who are going after and alcohol after sugar and alcohol and ultra, processed food have ultra, ultra processed food have felt emboldened this felt very emboldened by this because it showed that the government would will go even further they imagined . further than they imagined. >> i'm not saying that alcohol is at any is going to be prohibited at any moment will see it moment soon, but it will see it will make various anti alcohol policies more reasonable policies look more reasonable and moderate . and moderate. >> but, i mean, let's get into the practicalities of very the practicalities of it very briefly. it's absurd . in briefly. i mean, it's absurd. in ten years time, you're going to have buy them. >> 24 year olds can buy them or rather the other around,

rather the other way around, 26 year buy them . it's year olds can buy them. it's just it? of course just daft, isn't it? of course it's going to increase the black market. i think a lot of it being you might the being what you might call the grey a 26 year old buying >> right. a 26 year old buying cigarettes for their year old friends. >> no one's going respect the >> no one's going to respect the law laughable in law because it's laughable in the you're to law because it's laughable in theyou're to going feel >> you're not to going feel guilty like you would >> you're not to going feel guibuying like you would >> you're not to going feel guibuying cigarettesou would >> you're not to going feel guibuying cigarettes forwould >> you're not to going feel guibuying cigarettes for anlld >> you're not to going feel guibuying cigarettes for an 11i do buying cigarettes for an 11 year old. and it will also increase the black market, which year old. and it will also inwindeed:he black market, which year old. and it will also inwindeed sizeable. market, which is indeed sizeable. >> tobacco is sold >> 18% of tobacco is sold illegally according to the government's figures moment. >> and prohibition doesn't work so as people buy >> and prohibition doesn't work so productseople buy >> and prohibition doesn't work so productse0jquestion buy >> and prohibition doesn't work so productse0jquestion . buy the products in question. >> issue aside >> so leaving that issue aside of the of the black market, lawrence, you're talking very much about people's health. might way of dealing might the better way of dealing with this to be to raise awareness, to inform people more about the health risks that everyone agrees is associated with smoking. >> we've done that for 50 years. andrew listen, the biggest achievement in medicine over the last 50 years nothing to do last 50 years is nothing to do with me doctor other with me as a doctor or other doctors, nothing to do with drugs or treatments. it was the banning smoking indoors . now banning of smoking indoors. now this was terrible for the pub

trade , but know from firsthand trade, but i know from firsthand experience patients in experience from my patients in the sort of wealthy south—east of england that that made a huge reduction in the number of cigarette smoke . and listen, cigarette smoke. and listen, fraser nelson, the spectator has said there's no point bringing in this ban because smoking is on the way out. well, it's on the way out because of initiatives like that banning smoking indoors. and i think it was a huge public health achievement that has saved a lot of lives. i just think it's time to go a bit further whether this is the right way or not. we can debate. i just think there is still a of smoking among low still a lot of smoking among low income education is income groups. education is clearly doesn't work. so we've got to perhaps for this for smoking only be part of the nanny state and instruct people to make it essentially illegal to make it essentially illegal to buy cigarettes at some point in the future. >> i mean, christopher, we do ban harmful substances. you know, this isn't unprecedented and everyone does agree that smoking can absolutely devastate lives. so isn't there a case for

simply lumping tobacco in with these other substances that we already have a ban on? >> no, i think there's a for case taking some of the illegal drugs and making them legal, and that's a debate for another day. >> but i mean , do we really want >> but i mean, do we really want to a new front in the to open up a new front in the war on drugs, knowing what that involves in terms of criminality and, you know , disrespect for and, you know, disrespect for the law apart from anything else? i mean, this law is so preposterous, is bound to bring all law into disrespect. i don't want to open up another front in the war on drugs. as a non—smoker, want to be non—smoker, i don't want to be paying non—smoker, i don't want to be paying smokers paying more tax because smokers are tax. and i don't are paying less tax. and i don't want be paying for want to have to be paying for border force to seizing border force to be seizing millions cigarettes as indeed millions of cigarettes as indeed we already it's just it we already do. it's just it seems to me a completely unforced error. we don't need to do are we trying to do do it. what are we trying to do here? to stop adult here? we're trying to stop adult smoking, basically. it has always basis of always been at the basis of government's tobacco control strategy , as draconian as it's strategy, as draconian as it's beenin strategy, as draconian as it's been in many respects . the been in many respects. the adults at the end of the day have a right to smoke tobacco . have a right to smoke tobacco. >> well, this debate could go on

endlessly. it's very interesting. unfortunately, interesting. but unfortunately, we time . christopher we are out of time. christopher and thank much and lawrence, thank you so much for joining me tonight. really forjoining me tonight. really appreciate so next up on appreciate it. so next up on free speech nation , should rishi free speech nation, should rishi sunak be arrested for saying a man is a man ? and are all white man is a man? and are all white households racist ? so we're households racist? so we're going to have a look at these in social sensations. so don't go anywhere there's help for households. are you over state pension age? if your weekly income is below £201.05,

or £306.85 if you live with a partner, you could be eligible for pension credit, even if you own your home or have savings. it's worth, on average, £3,500 a year, and you could get help with heating bills and more, plus cost of living payments.

so time for social sensations . so time for social sensations. that's the part of the show where we look at what's been going viral this week social going viral this week on social media. we've got this media. first up, we've got this video . so earlier on, we video. so earlier on, we discussed the complaint made to police rishi nicola police about rishi sunak nicola sturgeon joke kay sturgeon in joke and now kay burley of sky news also wants him locked up . let's have a listen. >> a man is a man and a woman is a woman. that's just common sense. >> did you cheer with the rest of the hall when he said that ? of the hall when he said that? >> yes. i did.

>> yes. i did. >> interesting, because i've been looking i've taken the opportunity to look at the equality act 2010. this morning , which says that people who are going through a gender reassignment should not be discriminated against. and you can be at any stage in the transition process. so actually, what he said is against the law i >>i >> i really don't think it is against the law to say that a man is a man and a woman is a woman. why don't people know the law? i mean, that's so basic. is it just me or does kate burley always look like she's got severe gout? >> her face, a just. >> her face, a face just. she looks the whole looks in pain the whole time, doesn't if this is >> i wonder if this is a personal ad hominem attack. >> no, it's not. no, it's not. it's always angry it's just she always looks angry with world, and she's with the world, and she's determined to get one over on whoever she's to . talking whoever she's to. talking >> the point here, >> but isn't the point here, though, have though, that she should have researched little bit researched that a little bit better? because obviously rishi sunak law? sunak hasn't broken the law? >> sense what >> doesn't make any sense what she's saying. she seems so self—assured no one self—assured about it. so no one has had the had the

has actually had had the had the guts to tell her that she's completely guts to tell her that she's complete not remember when she >> does not remember when she broke during covid times broke the law during covid times because wasn't . because she wasn't. >> you remember that. >> yeah. you do remember that. yeah >> is this absolutely on record as because. as true because. >> totally hired who >> yeah totally hired and who was i can't was the other woman? i can't remember . i want to say beth remember. i want to say beth digby. is a name? is that digby. is that a name? is that a person? she's got black hair. >> well, anyway, anyway , and i >> well, anyway, anyway, and i think reason that kay is in think the reason that kay is in a lot of pain because that's a lot of pain is because that's not fabric. not a natural fabric. >> poly blend, and that >> that's a poly blend, and that must itchy. >> that's a poly blend, and that mu now, itchy. >> that's a poly blend, and that mu now, for itchy. >> that's a poly blend, and that mu now, for goodness sake. >> now, for goodness sake. >> now, for goodness sake. >> look, now we've got >> okay, look, now we've got this it's bold claim this video. it's a bold claim from author and racial from the author and racial justice robin diangelo . justice expert robin diangelo. let's have look. let's have a look. >> well, me just say, let's have a look. >think.l, me just say, let's have a look. >think all me just say, let's have a look. >think all white me just say, let's have a look. >think all white people's: say, i think all white people's households are racist because we're society . so. we're in a racist society. so. yes. don't actually think yes. so i don't actually think i'm or more racist than i'm any less or more racist than anyone else. and that includes donald trump. right like there's nothing that comes his nothing that comes out of his mouth speaking mouth that he's not speaking a foreign i recognise foreign language. i recognise what he says. i was raised in the same culture. there's a difference between us and that he amplifies and embraces and i seek challenge interrupt. he amplifies and embraces and i seeiit's challenge interrupt. he amplifies and embraces and i seeiit's notllenge interrupt. he amplifies and embraces and i seeiit's not useful interrupt. he amplifies and embraces and i seeiit's not useful for interrupt. he amplifies and embraces and i seeiit's not useful for meerrupt. he amplifies and embraces and i

seeiit's not useful for me to upt. but it's not useful for me to point my finger at him and then exempt myself. it's really funny. >> robin. i'm sure she's well—meaning, but you know, i've read her book white fragility and one of the arguments she makes is that effectively all white people are racist. and if they deny that they're racist, that's proof of their racism , that's proof of their racism, which is a like that. that which is a bit like that. that trap a witch, isn't it? trap about a witch, isn't it? exactly. know, if they exactly. yeah. you know, if they if drown, that proves if they drown, that proves they're a witch. now there's a really thing really interesting thing as well. book where she well. in her book where she talks about racist she is. talks about how racist she is. she herself as racist talks about how racist she is. she says herself as racist talks about how racist she is. she says that;elf as racist talks about how racist she is. she says that she as racist talks about how racist she is. she says that she hasxcist talks about how racist she is. she says that she has allt and she says that she has all these thoughts and that these racist thoughts and that proves that white people are racist. no, it doesn't. it proves that you're racist. >> so isn't this just mass projection? >> what is. >> it's exactly what it is. she's herself millions of she's made herself millions of dollars out it. she's dollars out of it. she's basically written a to say basically written a book to say i'm racist. meaning i'm racist. yeah. meaning her, not way. i know this not me, by the way. i know this on live tv, but yeah, i mean, i think she's got gout as well . think she's got gout as well. >> you just think everyone's got. you're like louis schaefer. >> listen, i would to you, >> listen, i would come to you, bruce, we've to talk bruce, but we've got to talk through our unfiltered through some of our unfiltered dilemmas. we have got from dilemmas. we have got one from amy. has come and

amy. amy has come in and said, the wedding, the day after my wedding, i finally to my finally got added to my husband's family group. husband's family whatsapp group. the are all the problem is they are all poush the problem is they are all polish don't understand polish and i don't understand a word i comments in word when i make comments in english. says anything. english. no one says anything. should subtle exit? but should i make a subtle exit? but if a polish if it's a if it's a polish language whatsapp group, then if it's a if it's a polish langhave whatsapp group, then if it's a if it's a polish langhave wiplacep group, then if it's a if it's a polish langhave wiplace there. p, then if it's a if it's a polish langhave wiplace there. really. you have no place there. really. i mean. i mean, think it's rude. >> i just think can she not just put the messages through google translate put the messages through google trarshe e lazy, put the messages through google trarshee lazy, actually, i >> she sounds lazy, actually, i don't translate don't like google translate though, isn't it? but the thing is why are you moaning either learn language , you lazy learn the language, you lazy woman. she does identify as a woman. if she does identify as a woman. if she does identify as a woman of course. but it's like get over yourself. well, we all should be grateful. you've got a husband. you sound horrible. >> okay. thank you, bruce . >> okay. thank you, bruce. >> okay. thank you, bruce. >> bruce means nothing that he says. >> i'm sure. sure. you're >> i'm sure. i'm sure. you're a lovely human being. >> do, i think, time for >> we do, i think, have time for a dilemma from the audience, which graham's dilemma. which is graham's dilemma. where's graham what's where's graham? graham what's your dilemma? graham i'm trying to do business with a large business, and they ask me a question. oh, sorry. they're asking me to read it because apparently you're not miked. so let me read the you say , before

let me read the you say, before i do business with a large enterprise, i do business with a large enterquestionnaire. they have their questionnaire. they have asked respect asked me, do you respect international proclamations on human the only options human rights? the only options are yes and no. how should i answer ? sorry, i had to read answer? sorry, i had to read that for you. but you're not miked. paul. what do you think of that? >> if you want do >> well, if you want to do a business with them, you're going to say it to have to say yes. but it doesn't mean you have to mean it. the thing about business is it's mate, it's about making money, mate, you lie. say yes, you can lie. just lie. say yes, please, let's do please, please, let's do business. it's a business. of course. it's a ridiculous it's an ridiculous question. it's an absolutely question. absolutely ridiculous question. what's sort of what's that? what sort of business know. jeremy, what's that? what sort of busiyou; know. jeremy, what's that? what sort of busiyou get know. jeremy, what's that? what sort of busiyou get mic?'. jeremy, can you get my mic? >> yeah, you got mic? >> yeah, you got a mic? >> yeah, you got a mic? >> just. just shout. what's. what's business? is it. what's our business? is it. >> business? is it. what's our business? is it. >> i business? is it. what's our business? is it. >> i don't business? is it. what's our business? is it. >> i don't wantusiness? is it. what's our business? is it. >> i don't want to ness? is it. what's our business? is it. >> i don't want to tell? is it. what's our business? is it. >> i don't want to tell you. t. >> i don't want to tell you. >> oh, okay. >> oh, okay. >> well, that's a fake >> well, that's not a fake business. a fake business business. it's a fake business to with him. no, to do business with him. no, i mean, the truth is always the best. >> i think so. >> i think so. >> yeah. you're a very truthful, honest person. sometimes a little too honest. do you think? yeah. open yourself up way little too honest. do you think? yea much. open yourself up way too much. >> it was funny, actually, because someone that i was speaking had said speaking to recently had said that i have employed isn't limiting honesty yes so i don't

limiting honesty. yes so i don't know what that means . know what that means. >> employment, limiting honesty. i think that just means that you. you're unemployable because you're too. you're too frank and brutal. >> being sacked from >> well, i'm being sacked from here . here tonight. >> exactly. well, this is >> well, exactly. well, this is the point. >> you know, this the point >> you know, this is the point i'm make is honesty is i'm trying to make is honesty is the policy. unless you're the best policy. unless you're doing business. the best policy. unless you're doing buswess. the best policy. unless you're doing buswe go. okay. well >> there we go. okay. well it feels like got moral to feels like we've got a moral to the episode there. so thanks for joining us for free speech nation. the week when nation. this was the week when rishi his rishi sunak launched his campaign as campaign against smokers as newsnight up to its newsnight owned up to its impartiality and john cleese announced his new forthcoming show on gb news. that's the dinosaur hour starting on 29th of october. so thanks so much to my panel. paul cox and bruce devlin and to all my guests this evening. want to join devlin and to all my guests this evtlivej. want to join devlin and to all my guests this evtlive in want to join devlin and to all my guests this evtlive in the want to join devlin and to all my guests this evtlive in the studio,vant to join devlin and to all my guests this evtlive in the studio, bet to join devlin and to all my guests this evtlive in the studio, be partoin us live in the studio, be part of our audience. just go to w dot sro audiences.com. please stay tuned for mark dolan tonight. that's coming up right next. and don't forget that headliners is on every night at 11:00. late night 11:00. that's the late night paper show where paper preview show where comedians take you through the next stories. next day's top news stories. thank ever so much for

thank you. ever so much for watching free speech nation and i you here same time i will see you here same time next farewell . next week. farewell. hello there. >> good evening and welcome brought to you here of your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office. >> after a mixed weekend, most of start on of us will start off on a relatively dry if cloudy note for the start of the new working week. still some rain week. there is still some rain around will around across scotland will gradually pushing way gradually be pushing its way southwards parts southwards into parts of northern dumfries and northern ireland. dumfries and galloway. the scottish borders move england move to the far north england as well. dry well. elsewhere, a largely dry night lot of cloud night to come. a lot of cloud pushing into irish sea coastal areas misty and areas will turn quite misty and murky here, but a mild one for many us. temperatures many of us. temperatures not dropping than 11 to dropping much lower than 11 to 15 c. so really quite a mild start to monday morning . but we start to monday morning. but we will see this thick area of cloud for northern ireland, southern scotland, northern cloud for northern ireland, solithiofi scotland, northern cloud for northern ireland, southwof england:i, northern cloud for northern ireland, southwof england could hern cloud for northern ireland, southwof england could bring areas of england could bring some drizzly rain, some drizzly outbreaks of rain, easing the easing off a touch into the afternoon. of cloud afternoon. some of the cloud across coastal areas afternoon. some of the cloud acrosscould coastal areas afternoon. some of the cloud acrosscould lingerastal areas afternoon. some of the cloud acrosscould linger throughout again could linger throughout the as well, but move

the day as well, but move further inland and there be further inland and there will be some to enjoy some sunny intervals to enjoy some sunny intervals to enjoy some cloud around making some wispy cloud around making the at times. but the sunshine hazy at times. but temperatures notably above average of year average for the time of year between and 24 c. into between 17 and 24 c. into tuesday , there is signs that the tuesday, there is signs that the frontal system is going to start pushing its way in from the northwest, gradually sinking south eastwards as we head throughout the middle part of south eastwards as we head throweek. t the middle part of south eastwards as we head throweek. scie middle part of south eastwards as we head throweek. so startsdle part of south eastwards as we head throweek. so starts its part of south eastwards as we head throweek. so starts its way off the week. so starts its way off across scotland , could across northwest scotland, could bnng across northwest scotland, could bring localised flooding bring some localised flooding in places and on top of the rainfall that we've already had, there could be some disruption in places. so just care in places. so do just take care here. elsewhere. for here. elsewhere. again for our irish areas irish sea coastal areas across the as well. there could the channel as well. there could be of mist and fog be a bit of mist and fog lingering but are generally fine day elsewhere for that rain though arrive across though will arrive across central and southern areas as we head and head towards wednesday and thursday.

by it's 9:00 on television, on radio and online in the united kingdom and across the world, this is mark dolan tonight in my

big opinion, woke leftist apology lists are deafening in their silence about the appalling carnage in israel. >> why is it so hard to condemn terrorism? my mark meets guest is the ex tory mp and bestselling chick lit author louise mensch, who's been described as an unhinged british witch by vladimir putin in the big story as they launch their last party conference before the election. is this labour's moment and it might take at ten rishi sunak ban on smoking . is rishi sunak ban on smoking. is the nanny state in overdrive ? the nanny state in overdrive? it's illiberal. it won't work andits it's illiberal. it won't work and it's a waste of police time . stick that in your pipe and smoke it . so two . stick that in your pipe and smoke it. so two hours of big opinion, big debate and plenty of entertainment along the way. a very busy two hours. i'll see you after the news with ray addison . on.