how white children have fared so much worse than their chinese or indian classmates and rapists and burglars could be spared. pnson and burglars could be spared. prison due to a lack of space. that's reassuring . all of that that's reassuring. all of that and more after the news with polly middlehurst. >> beth, thank you. well, the top story this hour is that some breaking news, in fact, to bring you regarding stansted airport. essex police have confirmed they're responding to an incident at the airport after a flight that was on its way from nairobi in kenya to heathrow, had to be diverted there . raf, had to be diverted there. raf, fighter jets, we understand typhoon jets reportedly intercepting that kenya ainnays flight. the plane later landing safely and guided to a parking area for investors nation. some reports online that there was a

security incident on board. we'll bring you more on that, of course, as it comes to us. now, in other news today, the palestine president has been commenting on the violence between israel and hamas. and he's condemned the violence against civilians . mahmoud abbas against civilians. mahmoud abbas said the killing or abuse of civilians contravenes morals, religion and the international law. his comments come as vital medical supplies run danger low in gaza with the international red cross warning now the situation is deteriorating fast . the only remaining power station stopped working yesterday in gaza. fuel supplies for generators are dwindling and could run out very soon. we understand more than 1300 israelis have been killed since saturday's attack, including over 200 soldiers. meanwhile more than 1400 palestinian have been killed in israeli strikes . been killed in israeli strikes. well, the united states secretary of state has described the hamas terror attack as

depravity in the worst. he was speaking during a trip to israel where he reassured the israeli prime minister that as long as america existed , israel would america existed, israel would never have to defend itself alone . israeli never have to defend itself alone. israeli prime never have to defend itself alone . israeli prime minister alone. israeli prime minister benjamin netanya , who insists benjamin netanya, who insists hamas should be treated in exactly the same way as isis. anthony blinken said he knows the terrorist group does not represent the palestinian people or their legitimate aspirations. he said what he's seen in the country defies comprehension. a baby , an infant riddled with baby, an infant riddled with bullets . soldiers beheaded . bullets. soldiers beheaded. young people burned alive in their cars or in their hideaway rooms . rooms. >> i could go on, but it's simply depravity in the worst imaginable way. it it almost

defies comprehension . defies comprehension. >> anthony blinken, the loss for words describing what he's seen so far in his middle east trip and also saying he is trying to secure the release of hostages. kid napped by hamas. more than 100 israeli and foreign hostages have been taken by the terrorist group into gaza . nadhim zahawi group into gaza. nadhim zahawi is a british israeli whose mother is among the hostages right now . right now. >> i was supposed to go and be on my way to pick her up and she was very much looking fonnard to come here and celebrate with her. you know, it's just heartbreaking . every picture heartbreaking. every picture i see, it's people i grew up with. it's people i know. my main message today is for the immediate release of all the civilians, especially the underage 18 and the over 65 .

underage 18 and the over 65. >> well, here the government's organised flights for british nationals in israel, with the first due to leave tel aviv today . the foreign secretary, today. the foreign secretary, james cleverly urging british citizens who want to get out of the region to register their presence. those eligible for that flight have been told not to go to airports unless instructed to do so . meanwhile instructed to do so. meanwhile here at home, his majesty, the king has met with the chief rabbi to express his support for the jewish community in the uk. king charles and sir ephraim mirvis discussed events in israel and how to support interfaith harmony in britain . interfaith harmony in britain. it comes amid a 300% rise in incidents of anti—semitic in the uk since hamas's attack on israel last weekend . the israel last weekend. the community security trust recording 89 separate incidents , including assault damage to jewish property and abusive behaviour in the last few days .

behaviour in the last few days. now, judges in england and wales are being to told postpone jail sentences for some offenders because prisons are too overcrowded. it comes after the government said it plans to rent pnson government said it plans to rent prison spaces from foreign countries in an effort to address chronic overcrowding here. the ministry of justice says the government has done more than ever before to protect the public and keep offenders locked up for longer . the public and keep offenders locked up for longer. bernie ecclestone has been handed a 17 month suspended sentence today after pleading guilty to fraud . after pleading guilty to fraud. and the ex—formula one boss will also have to pay £652 million to the hmrc . he appeared at the hmrc. he appeared at london's southwark crown court this morning after failing to declare for more than £400 million of overseas assets to the british government. the billionaire turns 93 later this month. he had been due to face trial in november after he'd previously denied the charge . previously denied the charge. and lastly, an mp for the

scottish national party has defected to the tories today amid reports of a toxic and bullying culture in the party's westminster group. lisa cameron's defection comes as she was facing a selection battle to be the candidate for a seat in the west of scotland. she says she's been the victim of group bullying at westminster and has even suffered panic attacks as a result. well, the prime minister, rishi sunak, said today he's delighted ms cameron has joined the scottish conservatives as that's the news. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news this is britain's news channel . this is britain's news channel. >> thank you, polly. it is 6:07. thank you for joining >> thank you, polly. it is 6:07. thank you forjoining me. it's thank you for joining me. it's bev turner in for michelle this week . so my panel are here. i'm week. so my panel are here. i'm delighted to say, because it wouldn't be very interesting with just me talking at you for

an hour. former editor, daily star dawn neesom. great to see you, dawn and former adviser to jeremy corbyn and who just jeremy corbyn and who i just described patrick's described on patrick's show is the handsome that the most handsome man that appears news. james appears on gb news. james schneider. you're not offended, appears on gb news. james schneidejames?5 not offended, appears on gb news. james schneidejames? no,t offended, appears on gb news. james schneidejames? no, no, iended, appears on gb news. james schneidejames? no, no, no. ed, are you, james? no, no, no. okay. don't sue me. >> no, i won't see you. okay, good. >> right. you get in touch this this evening with of your this evening with all of your views well, please. views as well, please. vaiews@gbnews.com or twitter vaiews@gbnews.com or on twitter at israeli—hamas vaiews@gbnews.com or on twitter at continues israeli—hamas vaiews@gbnews.com or on twitter at continues into israeli—hamas vaiews@gbnews.com or on twitter at continues into its raeli—hamas vaiews@gbnews.com or on twitter at continues into its sixth-hamas vaiews@gbnews.com or on twitter at continues into its sixth daylas war continues into its sixth day with a death toll well over 2000. it doesn't look like there's going to be an end to this any time soon. well, i'm delighted that delighted to say that we're joined melamed, an joined now by avi melamed, an israel middle east israel and middle east intelligence joins israel and middle east intfrom ence joins israel and middle east intfrom tel joins israel and middle east intfrom tel aviv. joins israel and middle east intfrom tel aviv. and joins israel and middle east intfrom tel aviv. and avi,)ins israel and middle east intfrom tel aviv. and avi, good us from tel aviv. and avi, good evening . thank you so much for evening. thank you so much for joining us. i really wanted to tap into your expertise this evening to explain to our viewers and our listeners, because i think this has been a very steep learning curve for a lot of us over a short period of time. this conflict is ancient, ancient, and yet we are all having to understand it in detail in a very short space of time. so in a nutshell for you,

what do you think has happened here with hamas invading israel? is it a short term victory? they're looking for? is it part of a longer term, bigger plan . of a longer term, bigger plan. >> bev, thank you for having me. i'll try to do it as concise as possible. hamas and islamic jihad are militant islamic organisations. hamas ruled gaza strip since two thousand and seven. they both vote to eliminate the state of israel . eliminate the state of israel. they don't want compromise. they don't want peace, and they just want to keep on with destruction and death and despair. want to keep on with destruction and death and despair . the and death and despair. the terrorists that butchered babies and mothers and parents and old people and raped women last saturday. hamas and islamic jihad militants , terrorists. jihad militants, terrorists. however, the mastermind is in iran. it's important to understand that hamas and islamic jihad are part of a structure of arrays of armies, of terror that iran deploys

across the middle east from yemen, iraq, syria, lebanon , yemen, iraq, syria, lebanon, gaza. iranians are sacrificing land. gaza. iranians are sacrificing land . israelis, palestinians, land. israelis, palestinians, syrians and all of their interests . and so we have to interests. and so we have to understand that the danger and they're barbaric fette that hamas and islamic jihad present is not only to israel, it's also to their own brothers, the palestinians , as president biden palestinians, as president biden said himself very clearly to the rest of the world. >> if i could just ask you to speak a little more slowly, please, because we're just struggling a little bit with with the audio here. and i really want to hear what you have to say. okay. what do you think gravest threat think is the gravest threat right now to that whole area? where that come from ? well where does that come from? well lviv the greatest threat to the whole area is coming from the iranian regime. >> it's not only about the nuclear program of the iranian regime that we all know that he is trying to advance . but it's is trying to advance. but it's not less about the armies of

terror and death and destruction that the iranian regime has deployed across the middle east. the iranian regime is actually sacrificing lebanese , israelis, sacrificing lebanese, israelis, palestinians , iraqis, syrians at palestinians, iraqis, syrians at the altars of the iranian regime . in that context, we have to understand the role of the barbaric terror groups that is called hamas and islamic jihad. they are a very significant component in a structure that the iranian regime established, which is known by the name of the ring of fire. which is known by the name of the ring of fire . this is an the ring of fire. this is an array of armies of terror, starting with the hezbollah based in lebanon, going on through syria with iraqi and afghan and pakistani shiite militias that are backed by the iranian regime and ending up in gaza strip in the shape of hamas and islamic jihad in palestine. the purpose of the ring of fire that the iranian has established is to, in the end of the day, eliminate the state of israel through the use of conventional

weapon targeting, particular directly and indiscriminate . the directly and indiscriminate. the israeli civilians . we had this israeli civilians. we had this saturday a terrifying , saturday a terrifying, horrifying example of what we are facing , this militants that are facing, this militants that are facing, this militants that are backed by the iranians are or are basically the face of evil. as president biden say, as secretary of state of the united states of america. very clearly said this is what we are dealing with. the iranian regime butchered hundreds of thousands of people across the middle east, hundreds of thousands of people across the middle east. let me tell you something that is enormously significant to know . many people in the arab know. many people in the arab world, including many palestinians, including many palestinians, including many palestinians in the gaza strip, hold hamas and islamic jihad responsible for the dire and

gloomy reality of gaza strip. hamas took over gaza strip via hinckley in two thousand and seven. terminal dating the rule of its own brothers. the palestinian authority . and ever palestinian authority. and ever since hamas dragged gaza strip to help disaster and despair and death. and many people in the arab world rightly so, called hamas response . for that, we hamas response. for that, we have to understand something significant. any one in the world who really wants to help israelis and palestinians to have future of hope, of prosperity, more must stand very clearly and say the force of evil of hamas and islamic jihad must be eliminated when we eliminate the military capacities of hamas and islamic jihad , then we could have the jihad, then we could have the

conditions for stability because then hamas and islamic jihad and their mastermind, the iranian regime, will not be able to continue and to fuel the flames of the israeli—palestinian conflict at will. this is interest not only of israelis and palestinians who look for future of hope. this is the interest of the region , of the interest of the region, of the whole region and this is the interest of the international community. >> but how do you do that, avi? how do you eliminate jihad ? how how do you eliminate jihad? how do you eliminate people with that ideology in their hearts and their heads? that's not possible . possible. >> there are two different things that we have to initiate between there is the ideology and the political structure and the set of beliefs , distorted the set of beliefs, distorted beliefs. and there is the military asset . in the end of military asset. in the end of the day , hamas based its rule on the day, hamas based its rule on gaza strip and based its ability

to dictate death and destruction. it is based upon, first and foremost, its military power . hamas has first and foremost, its military power. hamas has. some first and foremost, its military power . hamas has . some 35,000 power. hamas has. some 35,000 military massively armed, massively equipped and trained by the iranians and the hezbollah . this is the spine of hezbollah. this is the spine of hezbollah. this is the spine of hezbollah , the military power of hezbollah, the military power of hezbollah, the military power of hezbollah enables him to rule gaza state and enable him to dictate the trajectory of the israeli—palestinian conflict as israeli —palestinian conflict as it israeli—palestinian conflict as it wants . once you break that it wants. once you break that spine and that spine, can be break and the state of israel is determined to eliminate the military capacity of hamas. one, once you do that, as i said before, you will deprive hamas regardless of his extreme ideology and wishful thinking. you deprive hamas from the

ability to continue and to dictate a trajectory of their terror, horror and destruction. so it has to be clear hamas military capacities has to be eliminated for the sake of israelis and not less so for the sake of the palestinians and the region. >> all right. okay. thank you, avi melamed there. israel and middle east intelligence analyst james schneider. let me come to you. it sounds a wonderful ambition, of course, to eliminate the concept of jihad , eliminate the concept of jihad, but i see no solution to that . but i see no solution to that. >> well, you're not to going eliminate the people striving for national liberation and independence are colonised people by by bombing their homes into rubble. the idea that the palestinian people will just accept that their eternal destruction and subjugation is

nonsense . but do you draw the nonsense. but do you draw the distinction between the palestinian people and hamas? >> presumably ? >> presumably? >> presumably? >> well, yes, but hamas, we heard a lot of things that are not factually accurate in that presentation for example, i mean , hamas won an election in gaza . i mean, point of fact, in 2005. >> and because they presume the palestinian people would be kept safe by hamas and. >> well, because of the i mean, the primary reason that they won the primary reason that they won the election, to according experts at the time, was because of the frustration of the palestinian people with the in gaza, with the failure the of fatah and the palestinian authority in getting a two state solution, because they were being strung along by the strung along by israel . now the israeli along by israel. now the israeli government and security services were happy that hamas took over . in fact, the israeli defence intelligence chief, amos yadlin , in two thousand and seven said

israel will be happy if hamas took over gaza because hamas is seen as not a legitimate actor and therefore more violence can be done again against against gaza. you know, we're talking about now 16 years of the most extreme blockade in the world and in probably the most densely populated place in the world. you know, when the defence minister announced the coming israeli war crimes the other day by saying that there was to going be a total siege, no food, no water and so on and so forth, this is an intensification of an already existing 16 year long siege, which is why gaza has been referred to and again been referred to again and again by the un and others, by the un and many others, including our former prime minister as an minister david cameron, as an open prison , because that is open air prison, because that is what we heard none what that is. now, we heard none of that context whatsoever in that presentation. instead, we heard this theory that it heard this this theory that it was all to do with iran , which, was all to do with iran, which, you know, some intelligence sources and some of the reporting this week have said that iran was actually surprised just like the us was surprised. and israel was surprised the.

and israel was surprised by the. >> don't believe that. do >> you don't believe that. do you believe that? >> you don't believe that. do you i )elieve that? >> you don't believe that. do you i )elievtthere? well be >> i think there may well be true. i don't know. but if the if the israeli authorities were caught unawares and the us was caught unawares and the us was caught unawares, i don't think it's outlandish that other other powers in the region would also have been caught unaware. >> i want to bring you in. dawn before we have to go to a break. it seems unlikely, does it not, that iran were not aware that hamas were going to stage such an extraordinary invasion ? an extraordinary invasion? >> i it's but who knows? i mean, who knows what's going on in that region at the moment. all we know is that people on both sides are dying. and i think we have to be very, very careful to separate palestine indian separate the palestine indian civilisation , palestinian civilisation, palestinian population action and hamas, who are a terrorist organisation. they don't want peace. they want jihad the world over. they don't even care. i don't think about their own people and the population of palestine are a very young population. i think

over 50% of them are under 18. 70% of them haven't voted yet. so what you've got here and an awful lot as james has alluded to, an awful lot of our israeli people don't back what netanyahu, netanyahu is doing . netanyahu, netanyahu is doing. you have here you've got two very young population ones who are being kept apart by rich, old men. one, i mean, the leader of hamas is in qatar at the moment. they're not even in the firing line. they're putting young people in the firing line for their own ends. and their own ends aren't the people of israel. and i don't think they're the people of palestine either. okay >> right. good place to take a pause , guys. lots to get pause, guys. lots more to get through, don't go through, though. don't go anywhere, will you? we are going to be discussing about the fact that truth first casualty that truth is the first casualty of war. ministers have been meeting tech bosses to discuss the misinformation being propagated the war. propagated online about the war. do you think they have a place to do that? don't go anywhere, this is

>> you're listening to gb news radio .

radio. >> good evening. it's 623. this is dewbs& co with me bev turner tonight. and keeping me company until 7:00. former editor of the daily star dawn neesom and former adviser to jeremy corbyn, james schneider. has it been a tough week to be described as the former adviser to jeremy corbyn? no. >> why would be? >> why would it be? >> why would it be? >> well, why? come on, >> well, why? come on. come on, james. i've never met you before. you're doing this very good. like, not fake naive thing. you know why? would be thing. you know why? it would be a week. what do you mean, a hard week. what do you mean, represented? you're like. you're like. you're like his representative earth on representative on earth on political shows, aren't you? representative on earth on politijeremy ws, aren't you? representative on earth on politijeremy ws, arerdoesn't do just. jeremy corbyn doesn't do anything . people you to anything. people come to you to say , what would jeremy corbyn say, what would jeremy corbyn think in this situation? that's not why have you here. yeah not why i have you here. yeah >> no, i mean, he's perfectly capable speaking for himself >> no, i mean, he's perfectly ca|hele speaking for himself >> no, i mean, he's perfectly ca|he has speaking for himself >> no, i mean, he's perfectly ca|he has this�*aking for himself >> no, i mean, he's perfectly ca|he has this week. for himself >> no, i mean, he's perfectly ca|he has this week. i'mlimself as he has this week. i'm speaking for myself, and you can listen to what i say and see what you think. >> but at the labour party conference, obviously he was doorstepped by all of the reporters wanting to know if he

would hamas. do felt would condemn hamas. do you felt he in strongest he did it in the strongest sufficiently terms? sufficiently strong terms? >> i, i mean, i'll just >> i mean, i, i mean, i'll just say what i would have said and what i have said beforehand, which is that it is easy to condemn atrocities , that we have condemn atrocities, that we have nothing to do with. we have nothing to do with. we have nothing to do with. we have nothing to do with the atrocities committed by hamas. it is much more difficult to oppose crimes that we are connected to and we are connected to and we are connected to and we are connected to the war crimes that are carried out now by the israeli state against the palestinian people, which they announced that they were going to carry because to carry out because our government providing government is providing them with support it has with military support as it has done a long time and is done for a long time and is providing with diplomatic cover i >> but wouldn't have to be >> but we wouldn't have to be doing if people who doing this if those people who were about their business were going about their business on saturday, being music on saturday, being at music festivals family festivals and having family gatherings hadn't been startled , told by men with machine guns arriving in their garden. yes, of course. >> that's that's horrific . and >> that's that's horrific. and no one should say that it isn't horrific and no one should be

defending the killing of civilians. but but if we are to look at this from the point of view of where we are currently sitting and what crimes are we connected to, and can we have some role in trying to bring an end to we are more or we have a responsibility because we are connected. we're sitting here, we are citizens of the uk and we are involved. therefore in the you can describe in the most emotive terms you want the crimes that are being committed right now in gaza and will carry on for a very long time. now, why ? where do you draw the why? where do you draw the starting point line of, you know, for a cycle of atrocities you have ? we early in our you have? we early in our conversation , we were talking conversation, we were talking about 2006 and how there's been about 2006 and how there's been a siege on gaza for this period of time . daum was talking about of time. daum was talking about how many what a large percentage of the population of gaza will have only known that period. >> but it does sound i don't it sounds a bit like there's an equivalence here. and from where

i'm sitting, even with a modicum of knowledge of what's happened over last few decades, there over the last few decades, there is right now. is no equivalence right now. >> i just the way people >> i just i just the way people talk about this , i mean, not talk about this, i mean, not justjames. talk about this, i mean, not jusii'mnes. talk about this, i mean, not jusii'm not talking james, but >> i'm not talking james, but the way people can. that's the way people talk can. that's why he said, i know, the way why he said, i know, but the way people about what hamas people talk about what hamas have a terrorist have done, they are a terrorist organisation now recognised as such. they in their charter they state that the day of judgement, all jews will be killed. this isn't about israel, this is not about palestine . this is about about palestine. this is about eliminating all jewish people. do you recognise you do recognise them as a terrorist? >> there's no doubt about that. >> there's no doubt about that. >> on the i mean, i recognise that they're actions are atrocities, that if apply atrocities, that if we apply a standard definition of terrorism falls under terrorism, do you apply that as a definition? i, i yes, but only consistently. so l, yes, but only consistently. so i, i think that israel also carries out terrorist state actions again against the palestinian people in gaza and is carrying out war crimes under international law. i think these

things should be applied. >> do you think there's war crimes are happening now, though? >> yes, the war crimes are happening right now. war crimes are this very are happening at this very moment collective moment at this at collective punishment. hold on. this is extremely under extremely important under international , collective international law, collective punishment is a war crime. what they have done is to is to collectively punish, to point 3 million people, half of whom are children for hamas atrocities thatis children for hamas atrocities that is a war crime by definition. now, that's even without out that's even without looking at the indiscriminate bombing that is even without having netanyahu say that he wants to turn gaza into. >> i'm sorry, james, but you do actually sound like you're making excuses for them. >> i'm not making excuses. >> i'm not making excuses. >> i'm not making excuses. >> i'm sorry. i'm really sorry. please please sound like please listen to every word that i'm saying i'm making saying because i'm not making i'm anything. i'm not i'm not making anything. i'm not i'm not making anything. i'm not i'm not making anything. i'm not i'm not making any excuses. >> can't in fact, >> you can't say. in fact, i would i would turn it around and

say exactly the other way around. i think people are making excuses for these war crimes on the of other crimes on the basis of other crimes. think should crimes. i think we should be able to these atrocities are able to say these atrocities are atrocities and these crimes are crimes, started crimes, as i started out. >> yes, absolutely. many, >> yes, absolutely. and many, many many jewish many israelis, many jewish people not agree with people do not agree with what their country is doing. many palestinians do not agree with what hamas are doing. but i can't get head around when can't get my head around when we're talking about hamas, the atrocities, murders , the atrocities, the murders, the beheading of innocent babies in their cots, that there is even a butt to that conversation . but butt to that conversation. but israel have done this. but the world have done this. there is no but two wrongs don't make right. >> how is that? how is of course, two wrongs don't make a right. the two wrongs make a right. the two wrongs make a right is precisely the argument thatis right is precisely the argument that is being made by our government and keir starmer and the bench of the labour the front bench of the labour party. >> they are asked, is this >> when they are asked, is this a war crime? do you support this war and they israel war crime? and they say israel has every right to defend itself. >> you do not. have a right >> you do not. you have a right to yourself. to defend yourself. >> you have no right whatsoever for crimes against

for to commit war crimes against other people. >> but they're not condoning the war they're saying war crimes. they're saying israel a right to defend israel has a right to defend itself. oh, yes. >> put but in when >> you always put a but in when we're about we're talking about the atrocities, murders of atrocities, the murders of babies have babies that hamas have committed, i'm i am not committed, i guess i'm i am not comfortable with the fact that there are babies now being murdered in gaza. >> and think that's >> and i think that's effectively what you're saying. you that two wrongs you are saying that two wrongs don't a right. what is don't make a right. but what is the alternative, because the alternative, james? because as dawn says, the point of as as dawn says, the point of this invasion was not to just take back a little land and maybe wave off the jewish people and like this maybe wave off the jewish people and it like this maybe wave off the jewish people and it is like this maybe wave off the jewish people and it is the like this maybe wave off the jewish people and it is the annihilationis maybe wave off the jewish people and it is the annihilation of land. it is the annihilation of all jews on the planet that is clearly the stated aim. sir, how do you how do you manage that sort of threat? >> i'm sorry , i, i really think >> i'm sorry, i, i really think that the leap from , um, the this that the leap from, um, the this , these atrocities that were committed over the weekend to the wipe out of all jews, which includes me , by the way, the includes me, by the way, the wiping out of all jews on earth is a nonsense . and it's a sort is a nonsense. and it's a sort of thing that sort of language helps to clear the path for

these like gaza, a place of 2.2 million people reduced to rubble. look at the footage from there. look at the look at the things that are being done to the being done to those people there. none of it is correct. >> no one. >> no one. >> it. none of it is >> none of it. none of it is correct. and the response correct. and so the response from israel should not be to commit war crimes and should not be this disproportionate. >> of course it should. and our government and the other governments of the world should be calling for restraint and pushing to return to peace talks, which israel has not been engaging since 2014, which engaging in since 2014, which the government , its key the israeli government, its key figures, for example , its figures, for example, its finance minister, smotrich , has finance minister, smotrich, has said that palestinians living in the occupied territories, they have three choices personal subjugation to israel. >> they can leave or they can die . this is >> they can leave or they can die. this is not >> they can leave or they can die . this is not a government die. this is not a government thatis die. this is not a government that is interested in peace and there needs massive there needs to be massive outside pressure to put them . outside pressure to put them. >> and and hamas are >> and hamas and hamas are saying that israel does not exist , saying that israel does not exist, should saying that israel does not exist , should never exist, saying that israel does not exist, should never exist, and nor should all jewish people.

and james, as just said, and james, as you've just said, that includes you. that is actually in their charter, article seven. have article seven. they have put that writing. article seven. they have put tha right. iting. article seven. they have put tha right. and as have very >> right. and as have very similar things have said, members of the israeli government going the other way, basically denying that the palestinian people exist. >> and yet these two groups are the very groups that are going to be required to speak for peace in order field that over over the last few decades that israel has tried , you know, israel has tried, you know, about five occasions, the famous camp david meeting with clinton, that they've tried on multiple occasions to have it pushed back i >>i >> i might be wrong. i can say this is not my area of expertise. >> that was 30 years ago. and since for the last 20 years is has repeatedly undermined any chance of peace, including those quotes i was reading earlier about support arming the hamas takeover of gaza and the undermining of the palestinian authority so they won't have a negotiate partner and they haven't been in any talks since 2014. and they have government

officials who call for the annexation , even of the occupied annexation, even of the occupied territories, and they support the expansion of the illegal settlements, making a palestinian state de facto impossible. that's what the israeli ambassador to britain has has said on record in the past as well. so you know, no, that hasn't that's not making good efforts towards peace. and again, where do we in britain and in other countries have a role ? we have some influence . we role? we have some influence. we have some influence. and it should be used to say these illegal settlements are wrong. they are illegal and they must not happen. you will not have our diplomatic support. you will not have our money. you will not have our military technology. you will not have our bombs and our bullets carry your our bullets to carry out your continue ing occupation of these people and apartheid because there will be no more. there can be no long term peace with the continued occupation, dispossession . dispossession. >> but hamas, they don't. but

there is so many vested interests and they're not being long term peace , it seems to me. long term peace, it seems to me. and we've got to take another break as well . sorry. we're break as well. sorry. we're going to have to take a quick break, dawn neesom and james schneider will be with me. we're not going anywhere. and don't you go anywhere. got a lot you go anywhere. we've got a lot more get through between now more to get through between now and we'll be checking and 7:00. and we'll be checking the vaiews@gbnews.com and 7:00. and we'll be checking the in vaiews@gbnews.com and 7:00. and we'll be checking the in aibviews@gbnews.com and 7:00. and we'll be checking the in a minutngbnews.com

>> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> welcome back to gb news bev turner in for michelle dewberry . tonight, we're debating whether to carry on this conversation, aren't we, about the war in israel? because there is so much. i do want to go on to this story about. while pupils have slipped behind in covid. but before we do that, can we just quickly bottom out this idea misinformation this idea of misinformation on social the war? social media with the war? do the government place? the government have a place? there sentence that i read there was a sentence that i read today dawn neesom that made my blood cold, which about blood run cold, which was about

michelle technology michelle donelan the technology secretary. in secretary. here it is hauling in ex twitter, meta, google, tiktok and snapchat to demand that they act remove content act quickly to remove content about about the conflict . how about about the conflict. how dare they? i understand the onune dare they? i understand the online safety safety in inverted commas, bill, which will make nobody any safer . it has been nobody any safer. it has been introduced for this very reason , but it terrifies me at a time because the first thing that goes during war is truth. >> it is, yeah. that was, that was coined the first was coined during the first world by an american world war by an american politician statement politician that statement wasn't it? it is true. it was true it? and it is true. it was true then and it's true now. the problem with the online safety bill, are all of bill, there are all sorts of issues with it about the freedom of we completely of speech. we completely understand that. however, i think in situations like this and seen it with the and we've seen it with the ukraine war as well, the amount of misinformation out there that is it's you know, it's not just lies . it's lies that cost lies. it's lies that cost people's lives. >> in what way, though? how well , because people believe it. >> i mean, if you if you look back over some of the misinformed action that's been put during situations, put out during war situations,

mainly the ukraine, mainly including the ukraine, but not necessarily just the ukraine, going then, it ukraine, but going back then, it people believe it and people get angry and people behave in a way they wouldn't necessarily it's impossible , james, surely, to impossible, james, surely, to make sure that everything is factually accurate. >> we've seen here debating for 38 minutes the situation in israel. there is no necessarily one truth. there is never one truth narrative to any situation, particularly truth narrative to any situation, pas.icularly truth narrative to any situation, pas complex as this. something as complex as this. >> also, this implies that what we are getting in the rest of our media is accurate, which i mean, let's take for example , mean, let's take for example, all the story which bev referenced in passing. that was on the front pages of most of our newspapers yesterday, which is the horrifying idea that babies were beheaded. now, clearly , children have died, but clearly, children have died, but the idea that they beheaded, which is particularly barbaric and gruesome , disgusting, and gruesome, disgusting, depraved. now, this this bev referred to at dawn. sorry, sorry . sorry. >> all right. >> all right. >> you can call me bev. i'd rather i'd rather look like bev

tonight. believe me. >> sorry. you're not the first handsome man to get my name wrong on a first date. don't worry. >> i've got his name wrong. i know you're wrong, but it's been a long day. >> come on. sorry. >> come on. i'm sorry. >> come on. i'm sorry. >> and. and don't refer to it. and understandably so. it on and understandably so. it was on the front of all of our the front page of all of our newspapers. almost our newspapers. almost all of our newspapers. almost all of our newspapers. and no real newspapers. and there's no real source it it came from. source for it. it it came from. it came first from an i 24, which is an english language israeli newspaper . which is an english language israeli newspaper. it which is an english language israeli newspaper . it was israeli newspaper. it was sourced from one major who had told them that now it didn't appearin told them that now it didn't appear in any of the hebrew press at and when sky news and anadolu news agency from turkey both made requests to for confirmation of it to the israeli authorities, they they didn't get it. now, of course, there have been atrocities to there have been atrocities to the committee. this is not me saying there haven't been atrocities committed, but that's atrocities committed, but that's a piece of information that goes round, round a very round, goes round in a very large goes round in the on large it goes round in the on the on our newspapers. >> social media. >> that's not social media. >> that's not social media. >> mean and, and so , so if we >> i mean and, and so, so if we are going to talk about

government control over information , we do need to look information, we do need to look at it in a much broader way. and also in what we i mean, we all remember the iraq war and the dodgy dossier and the things that are told. it was the same in even the best in the us. even the best newspapers, new york times, newspapers, the new york times, you know, the supposedly most rigorous fact checking rigorous, most fact checking they were they had journalists that were fed stuff the security fed stuff by the security services to build the case for war, which turned out to not you really getting to it has been confirmed today by the jerusalem post, by the who have got post, by the way, who have got the pictures. >> because work for >> and because i work for a newspaper for a long time, i've seen pictures and yes, baby seen the pictures and yes, baby jews were beheaded. but i can't believe baby were killed in there. cuts. okay we've there. cuts. right. okay we've got to the fact that we are got down to the fact that we are debating they were killed . debating how they were killed. like issue. it doesn't like that's an issue. it doesn't matter whether beheaded. it matter whether we beheaded. it doesn't they were shot doesn't matter if they were shot in head. didn't matter if in the head. it didn't matter if they throat slit. there they had the throat slit. there were babies killed on a saturday morning cots. so, morning in their cots. so, yes, you know, misinformation and it does get in the mainstream press. i completely appreciate that. but the fact that so many

people days would rather people these days would rather believe talking as a believe i'm talking as a newspaper obviously believe i'm talking as a newsp rather obviously believe i'm talking as a newsp rather believe obviously believe i'm talking as a newsp rather believe obviwthey would rather believe what they read online when so much of misinformation is out there , misinformation is out there, dangerous misinformation and so much so that we end up debating whether the baby was shot or beheaded . what do you mean? beheaded. what do you mean? >> do you mean do mean when >> do you mean do you mean when you there's so much you say there's so much misinformation opposed you say there's so much misiranrmation opposed you say there's so much misira in|ation opposed you say there's so much misira in a:ion opposed you say there's so much misira in a newspaper opposed you say there's so much misira in a newspaper paperosed you say there's so much misira in a newspaper paper and to in a in a newspaper paper and i'm a fan of newspapers. dawn, you write for you know, i write for newspapers. the loss of newspapers. i think the loss of newspapers. i think the loss of newspapers be a huge loss newspapers will be a huge loss in this country. but that's certainly looks like often the in this country. but that's certithat looks like often the in this country. but that's certithat things.ike often the in this country. but that's certithat things are often the in this country. but that's certithat things are heading. but way that things are heading. but when online, do just when you say online, do you just mean citizen mean sort of citizen journalists? you mean twitter journalists? do you mean twitter people on twitter? but yeah, the social media, i mean, of the social media, i mean, all of the platforms you can put platforms that you can put whatever want there whatever you want and there doesn't despite the doesn't still seem, despite the onune doesn't still seem, despite the online both here online safety bills both here in europe america, there europe and in america, there still doesn't seem to be any checks and balances. >> to be fair to elon musk, he said. we have people doing said. we do have people doing it. we are taking down as it. we are taking it down as fast as we can, it's still fast as we can, but it's still getting put up there. >> but but this is what baffles me. the pandemic, the

me. during the pandemic, the social could social media companies could find you weren't find words that you weren't allowed ivermectin. allowed to say, like ivermectin. as potential they as a potential drug, and they would that post would take down that post straight away. those youtube sites had a video that sites went. i had a video that got taken off youtube got taken down off youtube within minutes. so come within 90 minutes. so how come they do for certain they could do it for certain things, suddenly we need all things, but suddenly we need all of given to the government. >> to be honest, i while i completely appreciate that there is a problem with is a big problem with disinformation and social media makes it much worse. i'm extremely uncomfortable about giving the authority to governments to decide what is reality and what is and what is not. okay. yeah, because yes, there will be plenty of terrible things that should be taken offline, that will be taken offline, that will be taken offline, and it will also go silence. some things that potentially shouldn't be and i think that, you know , if you're think that, you know, if you're going to have those powers, it needs to be so much oversight and so much transparency. >> just briefly, i completely believe that this should be doing to take down the doing more to take down the graphic images. how they graphic images. how can they dawn like as a newspaper editor, with that with your understanding of that

background of how those pictures appear on the feeds and appear on the on the feeds and on sources editors , can on the sources for editors, can can x can companies like x and instagram and twitter, can they take those images down? >> well, they seem to be able to monitor hardcore quite well at the moment, to be honest with you.so the moment, to be honest with you. so you can't you can'tjust you. so you can't you can't just stumble across and to stumble across that. but and to be with you, i did be honest with you, i did a search before you came on tonight and i couldn't find the image that i seen from image that i have seen from a newspaper which no newspaper feed, which no newspaper feed, which no newspaper publishes. but i haven't on social haven't seen them on on social media. okay. and the people running things be find running these things can be find now. even prison. now. and even in prison. >> we need take another >> so we need to take another quick break. talking to social media, send us little message media, send us a little message on at gb on twitter, won't you, at gb news. whilst we take this quick break, when we come back, break, cause when we come back, white and black caribbean pupils are in are lagging behind massively in academic england. academic attainment in england. we will be discussing

break good evening. it's 647. this is dewbs& co with me. bev turner keeping you company while

michelle takes a break this week. dawn neesom still here week. dawn neesom is still here with and james schneider with me and james schneider right this is a really interesting piece of research about education. and we all know that education attainment suffered country post suffered in this country post pandemic. that tried to pandemic. anybody that tried to homeschool their kids, i was one of them. we'll know that they didn't during didn't learn an awful lot during that period time. but that period of time. but interest research from interest thing, research from the education policy institute , the education policy institute, which is a think tank, has found that children are often classed as persistently disadvantaged and eligible for free school and so eligible for free school meals at least 80% of their meals for at least 80% of their schooling are than a year schooling are more than a year behind their peers. by the end of primary school and almost two years behind the end of years behind by the end of secondary but if you secondary school. but if you look at attainment in look at the attainment in schools the schools in england in the year before the pandemic, british white children have fallen behind other ethnic groups. dawn and also black caribbean pupils have also fallen behind. they have also fallen behind. they have this education gap . chinese have this education gap. chinese and indian children ace in it. the asian kids with the pushy parents are doing brilliantly. >> tiger mums. >> tiger mums. >> it's the tiger moms. what's

happening? >> and it's mainly boys, isn't it? we're talking about a girls constantly outperform boys as well. i think like obviously there's an awful lot going on here. it's a class thing. it's quite clearly a class thing. and i think that white working class boys are the one group now that don't have anyone really shouting loudly for them . they shouting loudly for them. they don't have anyone going these group are being picked on. these group are being picked on. these group are being let fall through the net here. there are lots of people defend ing other groups, but i think white working class boys are the ones that are literally we're forgetting about at the moment. no one really seems to care. the demonise us as and things like that, and it's like, why ? why? what is it's like, why? why? what is going on here? and i also and i have to say this, i know it's a class issue and there is poverty involved. poverty has an awful lot to do with. but i also think we talked about asian children doing well. i think there

doing very well. i think there is parental responses ability as well. exactly. well. well, exactly. >> somebody wouldn't >> see somebody it wouldn't matter if anybody was matter really if anybody was cheerleading my kids. now cheerleading for my kids. now it's up to me really whether they're doing any good at school . and it is a complex issue. but what do you think is happening here, james? >> well, i mean, covid clearly deepened already pre—existing. i mean , we have an extremely mean, we have an extremely unequal society in loads of in in lots of ways. and you can see why. i mean, if kids are not going to school and if you're in a cramped flat that's overcrowded, that's loud , where overcrowded, that's loud, where life is more chaotic , like, say, life is more chaotic, like, say, then it's going to just be impossible to learn versus, you know, maybe another another family . they've got parents family. they've got parents working from home, home office, fast broadband , and they've got fast broadband, and they've got a computer, you know, so you can really see how those things, those things happen. and of course, this all of this is obviously the intersection between class and culture, which is what makes it a tricky, but also interesting. and we should

engage with and i mean, i think dawn is right that particularly and it is particularly for boys and it is particularly for boys and there is something particularly about what our culture here tells boys about what they should and shouldn't do. >> this particular report actually doesn't seem to differentiate between and differentiate between girls and boys, enough . boys, funnily enough. >> report doesn't. >> perhaps this report doesn't. but. you're right. do but. but you're right. you do look at the bottom of the pile. >> are white working class boys. >> are white working class boys. >> so there is something about the way our young boys are socialised, particularly young boys from some you know, some groups are is bad for educational attainment and again, i agree with dawn. that is something that steady on james but well it is i mean it's something it's something that i mean every every kid from every background that is struggling at school for whatever reason requires more support. and that and they'll have different reasons why they need support . reasons why they need support. and that should be given in the way that's most likely going to

going to do it. and i think there's also an issue with a lack of male teachers, strong male role models. >> if you are from the broken home that we always use as an excuse . but if you offer excuse. but if you offer a broken home and you don't have a strong father male role model in your a male teacher is a your life, a male teacher is a good thing. there's a definite lack of them at moment. lack of them at the moment. there's something i there's something about, i guess, what it might be. guess, what what it might be. >> i suppose if you think about these children who are at these children who are now at primary and secondary primary school and secondary school, maybe school, they would be that maybe their were the their grandparents were the first immigrants into first generation immigrants into the parents were the country. their parents were the country. their parents were the that the second generation. and that work had nothing work ethic of having had nothing and aspire this story and having to aspire this story for me is about aspiration . and for me is about aspiration. and we to ask ourselves why are we have to ask ourselves why are the kids and the caribbean the white kids and the caribbean kids black, black, caribbean kids black, black, caribbean kids in this country, why do they not? why are they not aspiring? there a complaint agency? >> i don't think it's i mean, there's been lots of studies about this to do with reading and so on and so forth, like the more books that your parents have at home, regardless of whether they read them and

regardless of whether you read them, is correlated with better, better education attainment. and i mean these cultural things you see, and they're not about race or anything else like that. they're they're all about culture. it's culture because something that that a particular society values people will get good at it. like why are sprinters from amazing from jamaica? it's really, really valued . they're no sprinters valued. they're no sprinters from brazil, but they're footballers from brazil . so footballers from brazil. so let's take the nigerian origin community in britain. here book learning is massive, massive . or learning is massive, massive. or let's take my you know, my family , my great grandparents family, my great grandparents came here as refugees and because within judaism there's your literacy is very important . books are very important. so you can see how that develops. so there's the intersection between these two things. >> why are you clever or i'm not clever? well you are. i'm not. you're very clever and you're

very successful. and i find that really interesting because i was state educated. you were state educated. did we did in the break speculate to whether break speculate as to whether james state james schneider was state educated. and decided, educated. and we decided, no, he definitely wasn't. and it was all the apparently all in the hair. apparently >> well, that's what you said. i didn't. i i wasn't being. >> thank very much. well, thanks. >> yeah, but went to >> yeah, but you went to winchester where our winchester college where our prime minister went. >> now that, as you say, you were were the grand. grand were you were the grand. grand child immigrants. clearly child of immigrants. but clearly that that work ethic, that drive was there to you to do well was there to push you to do well and get a education. and to get a great education. your parents, my parents education everything was education was everything i was going well matter what. going to do well no matter what. and drove lorries for and my dad drove lorries for a living. >> cleaned people's >> my mum cleaned people's houses there was in the houses there was no books in the houses there was no books in the house all. the closest we got house at all. the closest we got to a book was a tabloid racing pages. and my mum and pages. and i loved my mum and dad bits, by the way, but dad to bits, by the way, but they wanted better for us, so they wanted better for us, so they did encourage me and my sister to work hard school . sister to work hard at school. they gave us that basis. they weren't educated themselves. in fact, niece, who's now 26, fact, my niece, who's now 26, was the first person in our in our family to go to university.

>> but how did they do it? what did they do? it was a work ethic, think. come home, ethic, i think. just come home, sit down, do your homework. i want what you've done. want to see what you've done. >> think it was it was a it's >> i think it was it was a it's going back to the culture. and the class thing is the the class thing again is the working generation. working from that generation. i think there's a generational gap as but from that as well here now. but from that generation just generation where, you know, just after where you were after the war where you were poon had after the war where you were poor, had a work ethic and poor, you had a work ethic and you on with it, there also you got on with it, there also might be another factor here, which we've we've got which is we've got to we've got to stop. >> wasn't long enough, was it? no, we talked about so much. thank you. at home for watching. i'll back on britain's i'll be back on britain's newsroom tomorrow newsroom at 930 tomorrow morning. farage. morning. here's nigel farage. >> hello, i'm alex burkill. here's your latest gb news weather update. it's going to turn wet and windy as we go through tonight into tomorrow . through tonight into tomorrow. but then something colder is on the way as we go into the weekend. we have an area of low pressure to the south—west of the and it's this that's the uk and it's this that's going to track across england and go through and wales as we go through tonight friday, bringing tonight into friday, bringing some rain and strong some heavy rain and strong winds further north. there will be

some showery rain pushing its way southwards and with low pressure nearby northern parts of scotland are going to be blustery and windy as we go through the night as well. could be bit chilly for some be a little bit chilly for some parts scotland. milder parts of scotland. milder further temperatures in further south, temperatures in the teens celsius, but it is the mid teens celsius, but it is going a wet and windy going to be a wet and windy start to friday and staying wet and as we through much and windy as we go through much of the heavy rain could of the day. the heavy rain could cause some problems on the roads. some spray quite roads. some spray is quite likely. you factor in likely. and when you factor in those strong we're likely those strong winds, we're likely to bit of disruption. the to see a bit of disruption. the high totals rain, high totals of rain, particularly welsh particularly over the welsh mountains, some mountains, could lead to some flooding there's a risk of flooding and there's a risk of some thunder across southern flooding and there's a risk of some asunder across southern flooding and there's a risk of some as well, across southern flooding and there's a risk of some as well, saying southern flooding and there's a risk of some as well, saying quite ern flooding and there's a risk of some as well, saying quite warm parts as well, saying quite warm in though. in the south, though. temperatures the 20s temperatures in the low 20s here, further north, even here, colder further north, even though it will be brighter and sunnier some showers into sunnier with some showers into saturday, a chilly, perhaps frosty start for many of us. then plenty of showers feeding down on cold northerly winds. so it's particularly towards the north—east of scotland where they'll most frequent and they'll be most frequent and heaviest. they going to heaviest. but they are going to become more widespread as heaviest. but they are going to becgo e more widespread as heaviest. but they are going to becgo through nore widespread as heaviest. but they are going to becgo through the widespread as heaviest. but they are going to becgo through the afternoon.d as we go through the afternoon.

even the chance of some wintry we go through the afternoon. even overchance of some wintry we go through the afternoon. even over scotland some wintry we go through the afternoon. even over scotland before wintry we go through the afternoon. even over scotland before sunday ness over scotland before sunday and looks dry, but and monday looks mostly dry, but chilly

>> the former boss of hamas has called for a day of rage tomorrow. now it's designed to be for muslim and arab states . be for muslim and arab states. but could there be a spill—over into this country as well? we'll debate the bbc. why on earth will they not call hamas terrorists ? and they refer to terrorists? and they refer to them often as fighters , as as if them often as fighters, as as if there is something noble in what they're doing. we'll talk about they're doing. we'll talk about the fact that our jails are completely full and rapists may not be sent there. and i'll ask, why the do gooders trying to why are the do gooders trying to ruin the grand national? but before all of let's get before all of that, let's get the news with polly middlehurst

. nigel thank you and good evening to you. >> well, the top story tonight is the developing story. it is that the uk is sending spy planes and two royal navy ships on deployment to the eastern mediterranean in new plans have been announced by downing street in the last ten minutes to support israel. the aircraft will begin patrols tomorrow to track threats to regional stability , such as the transfer stability, such as the transfer of weapons to terrorist groups. we are told prime minister rishi sunak saying the british military will be supporting and preventing further escalation in the conflict between israel and hamas. the british armed forces will be on standby to deliver practical support to israel and partners in the region and offer deterrence , deterrence and deterrence, deterrence and reassurance. so that news just into us that the british are deploying to the eastern mediterranean in support of israel and indeed finding a more peaceful settlement to the middle east conflict . now the