really necessary for the to was really necessary for the to couple have a seven car motorcade made to go one block. and with the cost of living continuing to rise , many couples continuing to rise, many couples are finding themselves forced to live together despite ending their relationships as they simply cannot afford to move out and find new homes. we'll be asking a psychologist all about the reality of living in such situations . jones and the situations. jones and the historian martin whittock will join me to discuss his new book, all about the origins and history of the vikings is fascinating stuff. all of that and more coming up. but first, here's an update on the latest news from ireland. armstrong . hi there. >> very good evening to you. it's a minute past six here in the gb newsroom. i'm the israeli defence forces has just announced their troops are preparing to expand their operations on the ground in gaza . it comes shortly after the israeli prime minister, benjamin

netanyahu , confirmed the next netanyahu, confirmed the next stage of their assault against hamas. is coming. he visited troops stationed near the gaza strip with that ground offensive thought to be imminent. that comes as an extended deadline for palestinians to flee safely to the south of the enclave passed several hours ago. tanks and more than 300,000 reservists have been mobilised in the south of the country , and mr netanyahu of the country, and mr netanyahu has vowed to annihilate the hamas militant group, which controls gaza , in retaliation controls gaza, in retaliation for the deadly attack by its fighters in the south of israel last weekend as well, as i mentioned , thousands of mentioned, thousands of palestinians have been fleeing northern gaza. that evacuation window has now closed. they along with foreign nationals, have been heading south towards the rafah border crossing with egypt. the rafah border crossing with egypt . it's the only route out egypt. it's the only route out of gaza that's not under israeli control , but has been closed control, but has been closed over the last few days because of israeli airstrikes. the

united states says it's working to get that crossing open and has advised its citizens to go there. although a us state department spokesman has confirmed that the window may only be open for a short amount of time. a young british girl who's trapped in gaza says she fears for her life like really in fear and like every every time i just have to have the thought of me dying in a bomb in gaza like it's not a good thing . gaza like it's not a good thing. >> like every place i go, i go run away and i just find bombs and i find dead people and, like , maybe one day i'll end up like them . but it's a really scary them. but it's a really scary thing for me . thing for me. >> well, israel is continuing its total siege of gaza. suppues its total siege of gaza. supplies of electricity and food and water have been cut off and airstrikes are continuing . hamas airstrikes are continuing. hamas says nine captives, including four foreigners, have been killed because of israeli airstrikes overnight. hamas is

understood to still be holding at least 120 hostages as the amount of people killed in gaza has risen to at least 2215, with more than 8700 wounded. those figures, according to the local palestinian health minister. meanwhile, the israeli defence forces have been carrying out localised raids into the territory as they search for terrorists and the hostages that they are holding. gb news reporter charlie peters has more from tel aviv. >> as night falls on gaza and hundreds of thousands of civilians flee south from the north of the gaza strip, the idf prepares to shape the ground for that likely ground invasion in the next 24 to 48 hours. nobody knows when the israeli defence forces will launch that eventual invasion, but it is imminent. and before they can do that, they need to ensure that as few hamas military capabilities are available to the opposition ,

available to the opposition, they need to remove anti—tank teams, they need to remove air defence assets. and the way they need to do that is through airstrikes. this is what the idf have been saying for the last few days as they have launched relentless barrages on the gaza strip . but at two charter strip. but at two charter flights have left israel as part of a uk government effort to get british nationals out of the country. >> the foreign office say more flights are expected to run in the coming days. count terrorism. police in the uk are reviewing 55 new cases of potentially harmful online content amid the ongoing conflict. the metropolitan police say there has been a significant number of referrals from the public. the force is encouraging people to report content that appears to incite terrorist violence or activity. the police say they will also work with tech companies to remove that content that's been that's been judged to breach uk terrorism legislation . france is terrorism legislation. france is deploying 7000 soldiers to

increase secured city after a school teacher was killed and three other people were injured. it's been linked to the conflict that's ongoing between israel and hamas . france has raised its and hamas. france has raised its security alert to the highest level . the suspect has been level. the suspect has been arrested. police say he is a russian born chechen and a former student of the high school. and in paris this morning, the louvre was evacuated after it received a written threat . australia has written threat. australia has voted no in a controversial referendum to officially recognise indigenous people in its constitution . more than half its constitution. more than half of the votes have been counted and the no vote appears to have 57% of those votes . australian 57% of those votes. australian broadcasters project that at least four of the six states will vote against altering the 122 year old constitution. but the prime minister, anthony albanese, who has championed the plan, says the country must seek a new way fonnard following the defeat. >> at the outset , what i want to >> at the outset, what i want to say that while tonight's result

is not one that i had hoped for, i absolutely respect the decision of the australian people well, and the democratic process that has delivered it. when we reflect on everything happening in the world today, we can all give thanks that here in australia we make the big decisions peacefully and as equals . with one vote, one value i >> well, this is . gb news us on >> well, this is. gb news us on tv, digital radio and on your smart speaker too. that's it for me. now it's over to . me. now it's over to. darren >> thanks, aaron. of course, we're broadcast here from grand old london, known for big ben, the royal buckingham palace, and now, alas , for throngs chanting

now, alas, for throngs chanting from the river to the sea, palestine must be free. a melody to many jews in britain and across the world. as sweet as a hornet's nest. so what's been beckoned on the streets today? a full scale erasure of israel. is that the answer ? the butchering that the answer? the butchering of thousands more israel citizens for the mere crime of being jewish and of course, the spectacle of labor party conference this week was a sight to behold. a middle class left wingers touting for their for justice palestine stall was right beside the lgbt plus labour stall . the irony, labour stall. the irony, i doubt, will be lost on many viewers tonight . have any of viewers tonight. have any of these ninnies ever set foot in palestine, for example? i mean, you declare you're non—binary or fond of the same sex in gaza and the only intersectionality you'll be acquainted with is being flattened at an intersection in gaza city. so why don't these revolutionaries on our streets screech into free palestine , kickstart a palestine, kickstart a crowdfunder ? i'm certain that

crowdfunder? i'm certain that many would happily chip in for a one way ticket to send them off to their cherished valhalla of gaza. i'm absolutely mortified by the scenes unfolding in britain. it actually breaks my heart to see it's this is a land that i adore, a batley grammar school teacher dives into hiding for showcasing a cartoon, presumably he's going to be in hiding for some time to come. there was an autistic child threatened over a scuffed quran and now jewish schools are fastening their bolts quaking at the thought of being next on the list for an anti—semite. lytic violent crime . is this the violent crime. is this the melting pot of cultures that we're peddling here? the calls for the military to shield schools in britain are actually being seriously suggested. isn't it high time to admit that we're in quite the quagmire here in britain, not just in israel ? i britain, notjust in israel? i mean, it should rankle every brit that our schools are bolt and doors are in dread, particularly admits the spike in

vile anti—semitic incidents of late. i mean, picture the chaos if a different crew was spewing such vile slogans against a minority as diminutive as britain's jewish community, fancy their chances of strolling away scot free because i certainly don't, and rightly so. now let's broaden the view a smidgen. a french teacher was just stabbed to death in a case. president macron dubbed islamist terrorism . um, russia, china, terrorism. um, russia, china, iran. they each scheming to topple the west. yet here in britain where tongue tied unable to utter terrorist when it comes to utter terrorist when it comes to the bbc's narrative for example al hamas, the so—called freedom fighters are discussed in description . in my view, the in description. in my view, the bbc skirt around their the isis of palestine , a retrograde death of palestine, a retrograde death cult itching to yank us all back to the dark ages. so if you consider these blokes freedom fighters, i'd dare say endure

two minutes under their rule and then we'll talk the harsh reality hamas reality is that hamas is no saviour since saviour for palestine. since commandeering. saviour for palestine. since commandrocket. saviour for palestine. since commandrocket arsenals opted for rocket arsenals over schools, for military tunnels, over hospitals, and the gall to use shields, use their own as human shields, as freedom as does this echo freedom fighters. you? is this fighters. to you? is this justice is merely weeks ago. i was in israel, a nation encircled by foes. on each side. yet here we are hesitating to actually take a decisive stand and call a spade a spade. britain ought to assure its jewish populace and indeed the world which side of history it augns world which side of history it aligns with with these hamas in iranian cheerleaders in britain should be dealt the same frosty treatment were handed those isis aficionado was confiscate their passports and boot their citizenship and show them the exit. the shamima begum treatment. our island isn't a stomping ground for those views. cheers very much the last call

should have been sounded and it's about time britain ceased being a refuge for the mouthpieces of malevolence . and mouthpieces of malevolence. and don't get us started on the football association action. the spineless cowards that they are. they can drench wembley and black lives matter. hughes over the appalling end of one man in america . but they can't light up america. but they can't light up the arch for over 1300 slain israelis is what twisted morality . me is that so ? don't morality. me is that so? don't be hoodwinked by these factions. what palestine what the world craves is liberation from the wickedness that is hamas . i wickedness that is hamas. i don't think that's a topic really . we ought to be up for really. we ought to be up for debate. it's a stark reality. so let's slice through the gibberish. confront these adversaries of our values. and for the love of god, start calling a spade a spade when all of that is my opinion. of course , and you're free to disagree. so please do keep your tweets and emails coming in throughout the show. you can email

gbviews@gbnews.com. you can also tweet us at gb news. i'll try to get to some of your comments later on in the show. i'm delighted to say. i'm joined now, though, and throughout the show by the former adviser to the labour party, scarlett mccgwire . now, scarlett, as i mccgwire. now, scarlett, as i say , everyone is free to say, everyone is free to disagree . why did you disagree disagree. why did you disagree with that ? with that? >> i think what hamas did was it was a war crime. absolutely it was a war crime. absolutely it was atrocious. it was absolute inexcusable. it's been a difficult week. people who say , difficult week. people who say, you know, that there were it's absolutely not. however, i do not think that that justifies israel killing up to now 2200 palestinians, most of whom are civilians. they bombed people leaving gaza after they told gaza to war crimes do not they don't fit each other. right. both of them should be stopped. and what we should be doing is we should be going for peace. of

course we should utterly and as frankly . be 99% of britain, if frankly. be 99% of britain, if not more, have done utterly condemn those killings. what hamas did, i'm not sure anybody does call them freedom fighters. i think they call them militant. i think they call them militant. i think the bbc calls them militants. right. what hamas did was absolutely inexcusable. and terrible. but that doesn't mean that you that you then can can bomb other people. >> yes, but i mean, the a lot of what we hear is tit for tat, you know, that actually israel should has murdered more than the 1300 of israelis that were killed last weekend. now can we really argue that , you know, really argue that, you know, should israel have gone into gaza and murdered women , gaza and murdered women, kidnapped old holocaust survivors, of course, which there are none. but should the revenge have been exactly the same scarlet as what israel perpetrated is what the hamas perpetrated is what the hamas perpetrated in gaza . in israel,

perpetrated in gaza. in israel, for example? >> no , but i do not think that >> no, but i do not think that that means that israel can cut off the electricity , cut off the off the electricity, cut off the food that they are causing people to die and then bomb them and then actually bomb people who are trying to leave, as israel have told them. of course, one understands that israel is hurt and furious. course, one understands that israel is hurt and furious . but israel is hurt and furious. but as lord william hague said, right, no apologists for anybody is rail will fall into the hamas trap. hamas wants to cause trouble. i mean, what they did, what they did in israel, well, they knew that what it would mean is that is thousands of palestinians would die of it. so let's not pretend that hamas is good for palestine, right? it is a terrible, terrible force . what a terrible, terrible force. what happened was absolutely inexcusable. but that doesn't mean that israel should then kill palestinians . right? that's

kill palestinians. right? that's all i'm saying. >> and what did you think about that particular display last night ? that particular display last night? that's the that particular display last night ? that's the football night? that's the football association where at wembley, you know, they they just they basically had a blackout where they had a sign saying that they stand in a stand of solidarity, peace . peace. >> look, by the time the football match happened right at over 2000 palestinians had been killed by israeli forces, it was absolutely right that the fa said, we for stand peace. we don't want we don't want any israeli flags, we don't want any palestine flags. what we stand for is peace and actually , for is peace and actually, that's what that's what we should be trying to get. and that's what we should have been trying to get for the last 50 years. i mean, that is the problem. problem is what is problem. the problem is what is going what has been going on in israel, gaza and the west bank. right. and it's . and it's been right. and it's. and it's been it doesn't help anybody to sort

of be cheerleaders on one side to because what we need what we need, i mean , this sounds really need, i mean, this sounds really terrible, but we need negotiation. and that's what i'm hoping the americans are going to do. >> okay, scarlett. well, as we say on this show, both sides of the debate, of course. so thank you much, scarlett maguire you very much, scarlett maguire there. the break, there. folks, after the break, we're to be joined by we're going to be joined by professor in political science and economics vienna and economics at vienna university, ralph schollhammer. what to discuss how the what a name to discuss how the conflict in the middle east could into europe . we'll could spill into europe. we'll be back in just a mo

radio. on mark dolan tonight in mitake at ten, a lloyds bank boss has condemned the prime minister for pointing out there's a difference between a man and a woman. britain's corporation laws are now institutionally woke what utter bankers. plus the top rabbi who's resigned from the fa over their israel stance. channel four's kim woodburn on the departure of holly willoughby from this morning and the extraordinary story of the woman

who suffers rare who suffers from a rare condition that turns her into a statue. we're live from . statue. we're live from. nine >> welcome back . i'm darren >> welcome back. i'm darren grimes, in for the brilliant neil oliver on gb news tv and on radio. now we're already seeing the fallout from the israel—hamas conflict here in europe. we've had demonstrations on city streets just today , and on city streets just today, and the home office has drawn up plans to expel foreign students. academic and workers who commit anti semitic acts or praise hamas , which is, of course, hamas, which is, of course, a proscribed terror list organisation. similar moves have already been made in france. so just to discuss and chew the fat on this, i'm joined now by professor in political science and economics at vienna university, ralph schollhammer. ralph, thank you very much for your time today. >> thank you so much for having me. now now, what do you make of

what we've seen on the streets of today? of london today? >> got a fair chunk of >> you've got a fair chunk of people right out the streets . people right out on the streets. what do you think this is something that we're going to see are going to be see more are they going to be more calls for this kind of action to combat it, people being the streets after being out on the streets after these of acts being these kinds of acts being perpetrated ? perpetrated? >> well, i think if you look at the immigration policy and the general demographics all over the west, the muslim population is . since have is increasing. since we have failed most countries with failed in most countries with our efforts of integration and assimilation, it is likely that all the conflicts that take place region, in the place in the region, in the middle east will gradually bleed over i think this over into europe. i think this is unless we really is unavoidable unless we really change when comes to change course when it comes to assimilation so assimilation and integration. so this problem that this is a problem that most likely will worse and not likely will get worse and not better we must not better because we must not forget, everybody who forget, not everybody who sympathises with hamas and these views out the streets and views is out in the streets and yells hamas, hamas, jews to the gas. those who do gas. right. so if those who do it in the open like this, it out in the open like this, fine, you can deport them. and let's see how many people will really deported, because really be deported, because it's

not be easy not going to be that easy because many them, least because many of them, at least in it's in germany, but i'm sure it's the same britain as well. the same in britain as well. hold citizenships, right? it's not going that easy. not going to be that easy. >> you say to the >> what do you say to the argument that argues against what have in banning what france have done in banning outright? they would outright? because they would argue that actually sunlight is the you the best disinfect. and if you actually the views of actually hear the views of someone, someone shows you someone, when someone shows you who are, believe them, you who they are, believe them, you know, there's this idea that actually to know actually it's important to know that these are the views held by a group of british people who are have come here and hold these views that most would consider quite abhorrent like that, that chant you've just said there. i think that is true. >> and i also think that if people want to voice their opinion in a country that holds free speech, there, they should have the right to do so. but i think we have a tendency to forget what free speech and you kind mentioned in your kind of mentioned it in your question was religion to question was a religion meant to be disinfecting in be like a disinfecting in sunlight? we have done sunlight? but what we have done in the west, i argue at least, is these people came is that these people came here. we had a good sense of what

their views were. we have plenty of recently did one of polls. we recently did one with university in austria, with the university in austria, for example. know that for example. so we know that anti—semitism the muslim anti—semitism among the muslim population, population, population, the arab population, is a very, very presence. is a very, very strong presence. but talk is a very, very strong presence. but it talk is a very, very strong presence. but it because talk is a very, very strong presence. but it because attitude( is a very, very strong presence. but it because attitude is about it because the attitude is and we actually kind of i kind of this later, right? and of show this later, right? and we publish this. and we wanted to publish this. and the authorities you the authorities said, do you really this? really have to publish this? right? let's keep a lid on this whole topic because treat whole topic because we treat this of, you know, it's this as kind of, you know, it's just part local flavour, just part of the local flavour, right? the swiss like cheese and the wine and the the french like wine and the arabs anti—semitism. it arabs like anti—semitism. it really that much a really is not that much of a difference. so never really difference. so we never really countered right. there countered them. right. there was never say never an effort made to say these views are unacceptable. it's only when something happens like everybody like now that everybody says, oh, do something. oh, now we have to do something. but think at some but i think at some point, right, this again, just a right, if this is again, just a spark now for two, three, four weeks, everybody is very outraged. it's going to outraged. but then it's going to fade background like fade into the background like everything does everything in the west does right? now 21 years right? 9/11 is now 21 years ago, we never really got a grip on how to deal with muslim minorities in the west. >> i'm going to bring in >> i'm just going to bring in the labour adviser the former labour adviser scarlett here, scarlet,

the former labour adviser sciyout here, scarlet, the former labour adviser sciyou agree here, scarlet, the former labour adviser sciyou agree with here, scarlet, the former labour adviser sciyou agree with that scarlet, do you agree with that sentiment? you we're sentiment? do you think we're going about this too going to forget about this too all quickly? >> no, don't think we're going >> no, i don't think we're going to about but think >> no, i don't think we're going to reallyibout but think >> no, i don't think we're going to really importantjt think >> no, i don't think we're going to really important thathink >> no, i don't think we're going to really important that that it's really important that that many, many, if not most, if not the majority of muslims are the vast majority of muslims are not mean, in not anti—semitic. i mean, in this country, we for start, this country, we for a start, most muslims arab. most muslims are not arab. right? muslims are right? most most muslims are come from pakistan and bangladesh , bangladesh. and i bangladesh, bangladesh. and i think to start talking about a muslim minority in this way is as dangerous as talking about a jewish minority. is that actually i mean, you know, there's tell mama, which is where where the jews have their anti—semitic thing, which is the cst, the community security trust, and the muslims have tell mama the anti—muslim things. things have risen massively in this week as well . and i think this week as well. and i think it's very, very important that we don't start talking about groups like that is that people a lot of people on that march would not have been muslim or

let alone arab. right there are an awful lot of people in britain who actually agree with with freeing palestine . but that with freeing palestine. but that doesn't mean that they support hamas. so, ralph , listen to what hamas. so, ralph, listen to what scarlett said there. >> and knowing that actually conflicts like this generally do lead to more extremism elsewhere , do we worry for british jewish people in this country ? people in this country? >> well, before i answer that, can i just have a quick. of course you can. two points a little bit. i feel like i'm in a time machine because this is exactly what we heard after 911. right. it's almost always the argument. very, very argument. it's just a very, very small minority. and is small minority. and it is nothing do the vast nothing to do with the vast majority. and that is true. but i would say something else, and i would say something else, and i is where the rubber i think this is where the rubber hits road. it is the case hits the road. if it is the case that let's say hypothetically, 98% entirely 98% of all muslims entirely disagree hamas supporters disagree with hamas supporters and that they take, and the position that they take, for jews in for example, on the jews in israel, assume that israel, i would assume that these the community these 98% of the community have a those 2% who a grip on those 2% who apparently hold positions that

none of them shares. but apparently they don't. so there is those who speak openly about it. there who it. then there is those who ignore are those who ignore it and then are those who tentatively and silently agree with them. kind of do with them. and we kind of do have the polls about this. i mean, this is what happens, for example, randomly mean, this is what happens, for exarrsomebody randomly mean, this is what happens, for exarrsomebody shoots randomly mean, this is what happens, for exarrsomebody shoots upandomly then somebody shoots up tourists. you had beheadings in the you have the streets of france. you have beheadings street of beheadings in the street of london. you had the ariana grande manchester. so grande thing in manchester. so i think always do then said, think we always do then said, oh, nobody really wants to do this. to why this. then i have to ask, why does the majority that does the majority of that community that radical community not get that radical minority control? minority under control? >> actually, >> well, actually, after 9/11, there lot work between there was a lot of work between there was a lot of work between the muslim community and the police and the government the police and the government at the time about i mean, time to talk about i mean, particularly when people started actually 9/11. it was actually, it wasn't 9/11. it was it the syria. it was going it was the syria. it was going to syria to fight with isis. and they got together what they got together because what they got together because what they all agreed with was that was that was that young people should not go and fight with isis and they worked together really well. and now, i mean, if you talk to serious counter—terrorism people, the muslims are not a problem. right

the problem actually at the moment is the far right. and they do not know how to deal with so actually, it with them. so actually, it is it is not enough to start is not good enough to start saying, oh, these muslims are a problem. mean , obviously problem. i mean, obviously people should not be. i mean, you know, i find it abhorrent, somebody who could can excuse hamas for what they did last week. right absolutely abhorrent. but you can't write off a community. >> nobody has come back to that point because we've only got a minute left so you can come back to that point. >> but i do you know, that point on the terror threat, for example, what do you think of the situation in britain today ? the situation in britain today? >> i think that the threat has never really disappeared. it is definitely greater than it was in the past. we'll see what is going to play out. butjust a going to play out. but just a quick thing. for example, the times reported times of london reported a couple of ago, more couple of years ago, more british joined isis than british muslims joined isis than british muslims joined isis than british joined the british muslims joined the british muslims joined the british forces. i'm not british armed forces. so i'm not saying muslims are the saying the muslims are the problem the muslim problem that within the muslim community, the community community, within the community of faith, there are of the islamic faith, there are certain there are

certain tendencies. there are certain tendencies. there are certain systems certain belief and value systems that problematic. and that are problematic. and i think have now for 21 years, think we have now for 21 years, closed our eyes to this. and i have sense that we're doing it have a sense that we're doing it again. we again say, oh, this is just a very, small number just a very, very small number of but apparently the of people. but apparently the number is big enough that jewish schools, jewish institutions have don't schools, jewish institutions have in don't schools, jewish institutions have in public don't schools, jewish institutions have in public that don't schools, jewish institutions have in public that you're don't show in public that you're jewish. honestly, in britain jewish. and honestly, in britain it's germany, it's different. but in germany, i think it's even more of a problem given the history that we jewish communities we have with jewish communities in that is abhorrent. we have with jewish communities in shouldhat is abhorrent. we have with jewish communities in should that; abhorrent. we have with jewish communities in should that should'ent. we have with jewish communities in should that should never that should that should never have again. it is have happened again. and it is happening again. >> well i mean, >> okey doke. well i mean, scarlet, do you want a quick one line coming back to that? >> just think the people who >> i just think the people who are mean, people who are are i mean, the people who are attacking jewish communities are completely wrong. it's not completely wrong. but it's not just arabs. i mean, let's not let's not say it's not just about muslims , right? that's all about muslims, right? that's all i'm saying. and of course , the i'm saying. and of course, the jewish community, as as should the muslim community should be safe. right. that's what that's what we all agree. okay >> well, look, ralph, we're going to have to end it there.

but ralph and scarlet, thank you very much. that was ralph ralph schollhammer. ralph, i've changed your name three times schollhammer. ralph, i've chanatd your name three times schollhammer. ralph, i've chan at vienna1ame three times schollhammer. ralph, i've chan at vienna university. times schollhammer. ralph, i've chanat vienna university. thank now at vienna university. thank you very much for your thoughts. now, folks, coming up, we have a treat for you because we're going live to new york for the fallout from harry and meghan's latest trip to manhattan. and we'll have a look at what it really means to be stuck sharing a with your once your a house with your ex once your relationship has ended . can't relationship has ended. can't imagine. i'll see you .

>> he made ten changes. >> he made ten changes. >> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> well , come back to radio. >> well, come back to neil oliver live with me, darren grimes. now i want to talk to you about this pair , harry and you about this pair, harry and meghan. they're really keen to clean up their image and, of course, clean up the environment . but perhaps they need a better pr team because they gave their critics another auburn goal. this week when they used gas

guzzling seven car convoy to take them on a journey around one single oil block to attend an event in new york city to discuss this, i'm joined by the new york based journalist, the award winning nelson aspen. nelson thank you very much for your time today. look, there'll be viewers here in the uk who won't know new york for their benefit . how far is a single benefit. how far is a single block ? block? >> i mean, it would take them less than two minutes to walk that distance , but i'm sure she that distance, but i'm sure she had very high heels on. in fact, i can confirm that she had very high heels on. but yes, you were right to go to this event for part of the mental wellness in a digital age discussion that they were having. they enlisted seven suvs that had blacked out windows and they also had a new york police department escort. so it was quite a parade . and as so it was quite a parade. and as if manhattan congestion on the

roads isn't bad enough, this further exacerbated it. but they got there safely. and i guess that's the important thing. and no one was able to get a picture of them through the blacked out windows. darren i mean, nelson we associate don't we, visually at least at a motorcade with a presidential candidate or a presidential candidate or a president in office? >> we don't associate it perhaps with reality television stars . with reality television stars. >> well, it's funny, you mentioned politics and i think thatis mentioned politics and i think that is really meghan's latest cause celebre. she's really thrown the thrown herself at everything , trying to see what everything, trying to see what sticks. oh, i'll write a children's book. oh, i'll do a podcast past. oh, i'll release a fashion line. she's she's really trying to find her way. and politics is, i suspect, where she wants to end up. she was very quick to get her photograph taken with political figures. she met vice president kamala harris's husband and made sure there was a photo op there. she

does an awful lot of hugging. i think if she wants to be a presidential candidate, she needs to shake more hands and do a little less hugging. but whatever. yorkers are whatever. new yorkers are not very impressed celebrities to very impressed by celebrities to begin with. harry's mother, diane , was an exception when she diane, was an exception when she made her first solo visit here in the late 80s. she really charmed new york city. of course , harry and meghan don't have that effect on new yorkers. >> but then if meghan has these delusions of grandeur to become a political candidate, for example , is there not a certain example, is there not a certain amount of a faux pas here where actually she driving in such a massive motorcade whilst you're also arguing that people need to be greener and cleaner is somewhat hypocritical ? well, somewhat hypocritical? well, that's that's hollywood hypocnsy that's that's hollywood hypocrisy at its finest. >> no one is more green than leonardo dicaprio, and yet he is constantly on private jets with his model du jour. >> yes, exactly. so, i mean , >> yes, exactly. so, i mean, this is going to harm them, isn't it, in america, right. this isn't there. the polling ,

this isn't there. the polling, if you look at public polling, the pair are actually aren't as popular as they once were . and popular as they once were. and of course, they went to america for the fame and fortune. surely >> that's correct . and i think >> that's correct. and i think she's she and i'm referring to meghan here. i don't i don't want to bring harry into this so much. he really is becoming a bit of a handbag. but meghan really is a rather, i dare say, a control freak. she always has a control freak. she always has a list of expectations that one of their visits here to new york, they went to a school in harlem and there was a long list of demands that eventually became public of what she expected. and she wanted meghan and harry friendly media in attendance. so she does want to control the narrative. and now she's got a new high powered talent agent in hollywood . and talent agent in hollywood. and i'm sure they're trying to guide her, but i think they need to be clearer on what her end game is , clearer on what her end game is, because she really does seem to because she really does seem to be trying her hand at everything. >> well , nelson, i

everything. >> well, nelson, i can't everything. >> well , nelson, i can't say >> well, nelson, i can't say it's been money. well spent. i don't know about you, but we'll have to leave it there. nelson thank you very much for your time today. now, folks, what i want is this want to talk about next is this really intriguing article that appeared the big issue appeared on the big issue website this week. now, this was anissue website this week. now, this was an issue that was highlighting another consequence of a cost of living crisis. it was discussing single people who've recently broken up with their partners, and they're being forced to continue living together for simply because they can't afford to move out . well, could think to move out. well, could think of no one better to discuss this than the psychotherapy artists from tavistock relationship . dr. from tavistock relationship. dr. marianne o'connor. dr. marianne , marianne o'connor. dr. marianne, thank you very much for your time today . can i start by time today. can i start by asking you, have we had a real insight into what this does to a person from lockdown, for example? i'm sure there were couples that up during couples that broke up during that period perhaps seeking divorce and all the rest of it, but were forced to continue living together. >> yes, i think that we've often we have known about couples

who've divorced with children or who've divorced with children or who want to divorce with children , and they can't afford children, and they can't afford to move from the home where their bedroom is enough for the children unless they both sell up and both live in bedsits or both leave their rented accommodation and live in very small places. but i think there's this new phenomenon of young people who may be in a shared house sharing a room with their boyfriend or girlfriend , their boyfriend or girlfriend, and then they break up and they don't have the money for deposit on a new flat . there are very on a new flat. there are very few reasonably priced accommodation available and they have to not only endure living with their boyfriend or girlfriend ex, but they have to share a bed. it's very difficult . and when couples want to start new lives or want also to forget, you know , if your forget, you know, if your partner has left you because they found someone else, it's pretty hard to come back to them every evening. >> and surely this >> exactly. and surely this precludes future relationships,

because go on a date with because if you go on a date with someone, i assume, and tell them, oh, actually i still live with my ex, they're to be with my ex, they're going to be saying, on a minute, saying, well, hang on a minute, i've got alarm bells ringing here. >> they well, of course >> they can well, of course they're to be suspicious. they're going to be suspicious. yes. very yes. and also, it's very difficult form a new difficult to form a new relationship when you're relationship ukip, when you're or you don't have your own bedroom for example. so it's tough for young people at tavistock relationships, we see people from , you know, different people from, you know, different situations, different economic backgrounds . and we see we see backgrounds. and we see we see some young people who are attempting to patch up the relations because it's so difficult to leave one another. in some cases , it's really in some cases, it's really unsuitable for them to stay together. there may even be a sort of feeling of coercive control or they want to escape and they have to rely on the kindness of strangers. often in order to find a friend of a friend who can put them up. but it's not easy with the housing present housing crisis. >> indeed. and this is a problem

that's only going to get worse, i'm afraid. right? because we're not building enough houses and people are struggling like you wouldn't believe. i mean, i can't imagine the number of people in london, for example, looking to move out and find their own place but are simply preclude added from the market place from being able so. place from being able to do so. >> there's very little >> yes, there's very little social housing being built anywhere in england at the moment. and in london it's particularly acute. this problem i >> -- >> so do you see this getting worse then? do you see is it is there almost an infantilization of the next generation where they're either having to stay home with mother and father or they're having to stay with an ex—partner ? it just can't be ex—partner? it just can't be good for human development, can it, to be in that situation ? it, to be in that situation? >> yeah. i mean, a lot of the people who are in this situation are from backgrounds where it's not easy to stay at home with mother and father. they may not be accommodation available at

their own home. they they may live in a completely different part of the country. it isn't that easy if you've got a parent, people actually regard having a parent who lives in the towns that you're working as quite a gift these days. if you get on with them , you can move get on with them, you can move back. but that isn't the case for most people living in london. >> scarlett mccgwire bringing you in on this. do you think politicians are taking the issue seriously enough as in housing itself ? itself? >> well, they they haven't been for decades. i mean, it's just been getting worse and worse. i completely agree with marion. i mean , you know, for a lot of mean, you know, for a lot of couples who break up, it has meant quite and it's normally the man who who leaves and goes back to his parents and i can tell you, knowing many people who've suddenly discovered that, you know, their children have come back , it's not good for come back, it's not good for them. it's not good for the son. but it's also i mean, and daughters obviously do it as well. but it's also not great

for parents suddenly having a grown up in the house. yes i mean, we need to build more houses. need, as marion says, houses. we need, as marion says, we need social housing. so that people can afford i mean, i think they've now discovered that you live in rented that if you live in rented accommodation, that you that your lifespan is shorter because of the stress , because of of the stress, because of everything. and in this case, both , both. i mean both the both, both. i mean both the tories and the labour, which is why i say 30 years, i mean it did begin with selling off council houses and then the worst thing was that the councils were not allowed to use the money to build more housing. we just, we gave away a golden asset. we just, we gave away a golden asset . it was appalling. asset. it was appalling. >> okay, well , yeah, that's >> okay, well, yeah, that's another conversation . we'll get another conversation. we'll get onto that during the break. but marion, i want to ask you, is there are there any positives to this? because divorce rates are going up and actually break downs in family relationships actually mean you harm basically

actually mean you harm basically a child's development in life? you know, children who live in broken homes are more likely to get into a life of not doing very well at school of maybe ended up in crime. et cetera . et ended up in crime. et cetera. et cetera. the stats are pretty clear on that. is there a positive news story here that says, well, more couples staying together is actually pretty good for society writ large ? for society writ large? >> if only that was true, that would be great. but actually , i would be great. but actually, i think that people who break up amicably and can be good co—parents can remain a couple as parents and can talk about their children and work well together. i think the children of those parents who break up do very well indeed. i think the difficulty is that some children are stuck in a very hostile environment where they hear their parents arguing. they feel a sense of anxiety and threat , a sense of anxiety and threat, not not physical threat . but not not physical threat. but will my parents leave ? will one will my parents leave? will one of them get upset? will one of

them bang the door? it's a constant level of stress that isn't good for children. >> yeah, well , i build more >> yeah, well, i build more homes, folks. i think we all agree on that one. but marianne o'connor there, thank you very much for your time of tavis talk relationships, of course. and that was scarlett mccgwire just before there. now, folks , what before there. now, folks, what we've got coming up after the break, i'll be joined by the amazing historian martin whittaker to discuss his latest book. it's called american vikings. i bet you didn't know that. don't go anywhere . we'll that. don't go anywhere. we'll be back in just a moment.

welcome back, folks . i'm still welcome back, folks. i'm still darren grimes and i'm still for in the wonderful neil oliver. now we're going to ask where exactly did the vikings come from? how did they arrive and what were they actually like? because my next guest has

actually discovered some archaeology , me and a new book archaeology, me and a new book that suggests that actually they got as far as america. can you believe so? martin whittock , believe so? martin whittock, thank you very much for joining me today . good evening. how did me today. good evening. how did they end up? are they the first yanks, as it were? well the evidence is that they're the first europeans that made it to america. >> of course, christopher columbus, when he got to the caribbean, a bit of central america, bit of the northern part of america. but the part of south america. but the actual first europeans that got to we now certain to america, we are now certain were scandinavians who had come from greenland . from greenland. >> and your book you're >> and in your book you're talking about well, talking about it. well, we obviously the influence of obviously know the influence of the in europe. right? the vikings in europe. right? it's documented. cetera. it's well documented. et cetera. et you learn that at et cetera. you learn that at school, in history classes and all the rest of it. but vikings in it it's a nice in north america, it it's a nice popular myth, hasn't it been in america ? you've mentioned some america? you've mentioned some nfl teams which are named the vikings, the minnesota vikings, i believe. indeed. >> that's right.

>> that's right. >> but they're not the vikings didn't get to minnesota . no, but didn't get to minnesota. no, but they did get where newfoundland to sagas written in iceland in the 13th century. >> erik the red's saga saga of the greenlanders tells this story about people who sailed from iceland to greenland and then place they called then to a place they called vinland, which we now know to be north america for a long time it was thought to be legend. but in 1960s, archaeologists archaeological 1960s, archaeologists archaeolturned up at a place actually turned up at a place called lanser meadow in north eastern newfoundland. actual evidence from the 11th century and as late as 2021 on the dendro chronological, chronological dating of that, the wood that was cut there said the wood that was cut there said the wood, the wood was cut in 1021. so we know they were there in 1021 cutting wood make their stockade making their settlement . but the key point is they weren't there for very long. the archaeology was very thin. it clearly was a staging point. there were some things found there butternuts, which are white which come from white walnuts, which come from new which suggest that new england, which suggest that the archaeology for them in

newfoundland land is actually a signpost pointing where they signpost pointing to where they went that . so somewhere went beyond that. so somewhere there sites in newfoundland, there are sites in newfoundland, in new brunswick, maybe , or in in new brunswick, maybe, or in maine maybe connecticut , maine or maybe connecticut, where will have left where the vikings will have left more . but the hunt is on. >> on. >> and what was the influence? what surviving impact of what was the surviving impact of the vikings , not just in europe, the vikings, not just in europe, but maybe across other places as well? how much did they actually influence? who we are today? well, they made a big impact on this country. >> i mean, basically by the 11th century, this was an anglo scandinavian . they are scandinavian land. they are among the four formative people who created kyiv rus, you know, the early russian state, which was a scandinavian slavic state based at kyiv, or kyiv, which is part of the contested story of ukraine today. part of the contested story of ukraine today . and in north ukraine today. and in north america, it was assumed to be just a legend. but in the 18th century, americans began to explore what deep story was there as they broke away from britain. and they began to

discover these myths again, these sagas again in the 19th century, scandinavians emigrated to north america and began to look for evidence, including fabricating runestones, which we find, for example, in minnesota, one found in 1898, because the vikings have got into the cultural dna of the usa. this idea of muscular, strong adventurers . and we even find adventurers. and we even find a guy covered with viking tattoos. the guy with the horned helmet. yeah at the capitol on january, the sixth, everyone looks at the horned helmet, the horned hat. nobody looks at the body covered with viking tattoos now picked up. also by the alt right in america , this idea of muscular america, this idea of muscular white settlers, right? so everything from marvel comics, you know, through to viking merch through to january the 6th, american vikings are still there. the journey isn't over. so how many history books have you written so far? this is my 56th. >> and what motivates you to do it? >> i love engaging with the past and exploring something of our deep stories, the things that help explain the people we are

today help explain the people we are tod and about the vikings in particular? >> i find the vikings. you like the hats? yeah. no, no horns, right? no, no. sorry i'm really sorry. so not a single horned helmet found? not a single winged helmet found in scandinavia. there are carving and paintings of beings with horned and winged helmets. right. which were clearly gods or deities. people assumed they were warriors. it's quite clear they did not have horned helmets. in fact, if you were striking someone with a sword, the last thing want is your the last thing you want is your blade thing might want is blade or thing you might want is your catch on their your blade to catch on their horned helmet. they don't want your catch on their your blade to catch on their horned helmet. it's glance horned helmet. it's got a glance off their heads. so we must put the behind. no the horned helmets behind. no horned the horned helmets behind. no horled the horned helmets behind. no hori mean, scarlett, are you as >> i mean, scarlett, are you as distressed as i am to learn that? actually this entire mythological image that we've drawn of vikings drawn up in our heads of vikings is wrong. is all wrong. >> the next thing >> and the next thing you're going saying is they going to be saying is they didn't come over in these beautiful ships. >> the are good, good. >> the ships are good, good. >> the ships are good, good. >> the ships good will not steal anybody's longship. right. but actually, viking something

actually, viking was something you rather than who you you did rather than who you were. technically. we should call norse. if you went call them the norse. if you went viking, a bit of muscular viking, it was a bit of muscular free enterprise although the free enterprise as although the people receiving end people at the receiving end tended it tended to describe it in slightly negative terms. slightly more negative terms. but to say viking now but we tend to say viking now for the people of the viking for all the people of the viking age. but actually we should technically, technically call them but vikings is them the norse, but vikings is them the norse, but vikings is the label. we it all the the label. we use it all the time now. but they were violent, you know, things like eric bloodaxe called that bloodaxe wasn't called that because the because he was good with the children, know, thorfinn children, you know, thorfinn skullsplitter on orkney. these are want to are people you'd not want to mess with on saturday night, but they lots and lots of viking. >> i mean, they must have. they raped of women, and raped lots of women, right? and maybe not always rape, but actually be lots of actually there must be lots of viking children . i mean, must viking children. i mean, we must be part viking. >> the key thing is the period of raiding soon turned to a penod of raiding soon turned to a period of settlement. right. and then we find people coming over who not technically vikings, who are not technically vikings, i.e, not warriors, i.e, they're not warriors, they're not coming to raid and attack. they are men and women. they're all across they're farmers. all across lincolnshire, east anglia, yorkshire . so the vikings are

yorkshire. so the vikings are there and they're in the dna today. >> in my experience, i always go back saint and the way back to saint bede and the way in which he was chased after by the vikings and all the rest of it. goes back. he was it. so it goes back. he was actually the previous generation, but they would have chased generation, but they would have cha they generation, but they would have chathey caught him chased if >> they caught him chased if they caught him. >> myths. >> see more viking myths. dismissed. thank dismissed. sorry martin. thank you very much. and i hope people check the latest book check out the latest book because that fascinating because that is fascinating stuff whittock stuff already. martin whittock there. scarlett there. and of course, scarlett mccgwire that's all mccgwire before him. that's all from on neil oliver live for from me on neil oliver live for this week. you'll be delighted to learn that neil is in to learn that neil is back in his chair saturday. cheers his chair next saturday. cheers very i'll see for the very much. i'll see you for the saturday five .

n ext next it's saturday night and this is the saturday five. i'm darren grimes, along with albie amankona emily carver , benjamin amankona emily carver, benjamin buttennorth and alex armstrong. tonight on the show , the high tonight on the show, the high priestess of covid is gone. welcome concert relatives in new zealand. it's time for just stop oil to just shut up. >> jewish people must feel safe in britain. >> we must stop tax handouts for private schools. is it game over for the snp and scottish independence? >> we shall see. it's 8 pm. and this is the .

this is the. saturday five. welcome to the saturday five. now they do say that all god doctors recommend you get your five a day and here we are for all to all hours again tonight i'll be in emily are alongside me as usual and we also welcome back the self styled wokeist man in great britain, benjamin buttennorth. and our special guest tonight is alex armstrong. yes. >> as usual, in the first hour of this evening's show , each of of this evening's show, each of us will get around 60s to outline our argument of the day . outline our argument of the day. then the rest of us tell them what utter tosh they're talking. then lots more fun in the second houn then lots more fun in the second hour, including bunch of five and our brand spanking new feature the yes feature. flummox the five. yes as well. your views on all of our topics tonight are always welcome. we want your questions to which will all be read out live and unfiltered later in the show do want to know if show. do you want to know if albie amankona is looking to defect labour party or defect to the labour party or does darren grimes wish he campaigned sometimes campaigned for remain? sometimes and has benjamin buttennorth ever worn an item of clothing less offensive than