>> good evening. you're with gb news. the top story tonight, the us secretary of state, antony blinken has been underlining four key objectives as the us is sticking he continues with sticking to as he continues with his diplomacy his round of shuttle diplomacy in the middle east. he repeated the position that it stands the us's position that it stands by as expressing by israel, as well as expressing the the conflict the hope that the conflict would not over any other

not spill over to any other parts of the region. he also said the us working to effect said the us is working to effect the israeli hostages the release of israeli hostages taken hamas well as taken by hamas as well as ensuring the humanitarian ensuring that the humanitarian crisis doesn't worsen. crisis in gaza doesn't worsen. he's due to return to israel on monday israel prepares for a monday as israel prepares for a ground the gaza ground offensive in the gaza strip israeli prime strip with the israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu today convening an emergency cabinet meeting and vowing to demolish today, demolish hamas. well, today, the european union's backed israel's right to defend itself as long as that is in line with humanitarian and international law. as he left cairo, anthony blinken stressed the us's continued support for israel actually doing, including the deployment of these aircraft carrier battle groups. >> again and not to provoke anyone but to send a very clear message of deterrence that no one should do anything that widens this conflict in any way or that furthers aggression against israel from any other direction . direction. >> well, other world leaders are talking as well. king abdullah of jordan has travelled from the middle to east london to meet

the prime minister today , rishi the prime minister today, rishi sunak welcomed king abdullah, the royal household in amman, saying he was there hoping to discuss the deteriorating and dangerous situation in gaza. this comes after a further round of crisis talks by world leaders with others as they try to inject diplomacy into the conflict between israel and hamas. meanwhile all four government flights carrying britain's have left israel today, two more are expected to arrive later on the foreign office telling british nationals in gaza to be ready to move in case the rafah border crossing with egypt that's in the south is opened . it's currently the is opened. it's currently the only route out of the territory. the foreign secretary james cleverly telling us at gb news the uk government is doing everything it can to get british people trapped in gaza out, out. meanwhile here at home, hundreds of people have gathered at a vigil in central london to commemorate israeli victims of the hamas terror attack. many

were draped in israeli flags holding posters saying bring them home and handing out flyers featuring names and faces of those taken hostage by hamas. a strong police presence patrolled the event that took place in westminster in central london. well away from the israeli hamas conflict . well away from the israeli hamas conflict. england are through to the last four of the rugby world cup after a 3024 victory over fiji in their quarterfinal in marseille today, steve borthwick's men will now face france or south africa in the tournament semi—finals. that means england are now into the semis for the second world cup in a row as they seek a second win in the tournament. in a row as they seek a second win in the tournament . you're win in the tournament. you're with gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news this is britain's news channel .

britain's news channel. >> jewish schools close in london due to fears of anti—semitic attacks. a man wins attitude magazine's woman of the year award and labour's new hate crime policy could see citizens jailed for two years for the crime of misgendering . this is crime of misgendering. this is free speech nation . welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics. and of course, we'll have the latest from those lovable culture warriors. as long as we don't get cancelled ourselves between and 9:00. coming between now and 9:00. but coming up show tonight, one up on the show tonight, one consequence tragic consequence of the tragic violence gaza has violence in israel and gaza has been significant in been a significant rise in anti—semitism britain. tom anti—semitism in britain. tom slater, the editor of spiked online , will be here to discuss online, will be here to discuss this major problem and what we can to combat it. it's just can do to combat it. it's just a couple of weeks until the battle of ideas festival in westminster on 28th 29th of october. on the 28th and 29th of october. co—convenor ella whelan be co—convenor ella whelan will be here tell us what to expect here to tell us what to expect from year's celebration of from this year's celebration of free speech and debate. a former

doctor at tavistock trust doctor at the tavistock trust will here to tell us about will be here to tell us about his concerns vulnerable his concerns that vulnerable teenagers confused about teenagers who are confused about their being directed their gender are being directed towards as towards what he describes as trans zing factories and greg lukianov and ricky schlott will join us from america to discuss their new book, the cancelling of the american mind. and of course, i've got my fantastic panel here to answer questions from our studio audience, my comedian this evening are comedian guests this evening are paul cox and lewis schaefer . paul cox and lewis schaefer. hello, both. hello. welcome back .thank hello, both. hello. welcome back . thank you, paul. how are you? >> i'm good, thank you, andrew. thanks for having me back for another week. >> any interesting anecdotes from the week? >> no, nothing interesting this week, had an week, actually. i had an interesting one last week, and that's for the month, basically. >> all you do? >> that's all you do? >> that's all you do? >> yeah. one a month is >> yeah. yeah. one a month is what muster. what i can muster. >> interesting life, louis. this is shame. is a shame. >> i do. i'm doing free speech nafion >> i do. i'm doing free speech nation today. yeah, nation on sunday today. yeah, you're today. you're doing that today. >> but also you're doing headliners tonight. >> schaffer, double headliners tonight. >> on schaffer, double headliners tonight. >> on newsxffer, double headliners tonight. >> on news as�*r, double headliners tonight. >> on news as well. |ble bill on gb news as well. >> i'm with paul cox. >> i'm with paul cox. >> with cox. >> with paul cox. >> with paul cox.

>> he's tag teaming on >> so he's like tag teaming on louis schaffer. he thinks i'm you know, he's making me a star. those tails i never those are the coat tails i never wish to ride. >> absolutely. i do apologise for overdose louis for the overdose of louis schaffer nevertheless, schaffer tonight. nevertheless, let's from schaffer tonight. nevertheless, let': audience. from schaffer tonight. nevertheless, let': audience. we've from schaffer tonight. nevertheless, let':audience. we've got from the audience. we've got a question now from ryan. where's ryan? hi, hi ryan? hi, ryan. hi >> is labour >> good evening. is labour really to jail people for really going to jail people for misgender ing? >> article in the >> so this was an article in the mail sunday and it was quite mail on sunday and it was quite a provocative title. it talks about how under labour there is about how under labour there is a jail a potential two year jail sentence once misgendering. sentence once for misgendering. now interesting, now this is interesting, paul, because is because what's happening is labour to sort of labour are pledging to sort of bolster their existing the existing crime that existing hate crime laws that would aggravation towards would bring aggravation towards trans people within the category of other forms of hate crime. and of course critics have said well, that misgendering well, within that misgendering could be part of it. so some people saying, well, this people are saying, well, this won't then won't actually happen. but then on hand, people have won't actually happen. but then on arrestediand, people have won't actually happen. but then on arrested ind, people have won't actually happen. but then on arrested in thiszople have won't actually happen. but then on arrested in this country ve been arrested in this country for kate a for misgendering. kate scottow a good there was ended up good example. there was ended up in a prison cell because she referred a man as a woman referred to a man as a woman online. so this isn't trivial, is it? >> it's not trivial. it's a proposal. and, you know , i think proposal. and, you know, i think

we are right to talk about this because labour just keep because if labour just keep pushing with this type pushing fonnard with this type of ideology and saying we're going to group these things together, to know what together, they need to know what the consequences are . the knock on consequences are. it's all very good to look in the short term. and you know, if we look at the hate laws as they the short term. and you know, if we now, at the hate laws as they the short term. and you know, if we now, most�* hate laws as they the short term. and you know, if we now, most ofite laws as they the short term. and you know, if we now, most of them vs as they the short term. and you know, if we now, most of them ares they are now, most of them are ridiculous. let's be honest. i i believe they are and believe they are anyway. and they around they sort of centre around religion and sexuality and things like this. if you're going to put misgender ring on top of that, you're going to end up with a lot of people in prison. >> well, the problem is that these sort of laws be these sort of laws can be exploited easily. know, exploited very easily. you know, if you say it is a criminal offence to cause distress, which is some of the is effectively what some of the hate laws say, then hate speech laws say, then anyone i could anyone can say that. i could say, i feel distressed by say, well, i feel distressed by something that you've said. i'm often things that something that you've said. i'm ofte but things that something that you've said. i'm ofte but you're things that something that you've said. i'm ofte but you're wrong|ings that something that you've said. i'm ofte but you're wrong becauset you but you're wrong because because the operative word there is delivered hate. because the operative word there is candzred hate. because the operative word there is cand it's hate. because the operative word there is cand it's likes. like >> and it's like it's like shouting fire a fire in in shouting fire in a fire in a in a crowded theatre . in crowded a crowded theatre. in a crowded theatre. it's saying if theatre. yeah. it's saying if you deliberately try to aggravate somebody and there's a

and there's the problem , how and there's the problem, how does the state possibly know what is going on inside your head? >> it doesn't. so that's why you have to legislate against crimes, not what you crimes, not against what you think were motivations think were the motivations behind othennise, behind the crime. othennise, that's crime. that's just thought crime. >> because the >> no, because the judeo—christian or basis judeo—christian ethic or basis is what's in your heart. if you run over somebody by accident , run over somebody by accident, yes, you don't get penalised to the same degree as if you run over by somebody deliberately. that's the distinction. so they're going after and murder. >> but even in a murder case and you hit on it, really not even manslaughter, if an manslaughter, if it's an accident, not manslaughter. manslaughter, if it's an acc no, t, not manslaughter. manslaughter, if it's an acc no, t, it'sat manslaughter. manslaughter, if it's an acc no, t, it's manslaughter. er. manslaughter, if it's an acc no, t, it's manslaughter. if >> no, but it's manslaughter. if it's an accident, it's an accident. yeah. if you if you've done everything your power accident. yeah. if you if you've dontoeverything your power accident. yeah. if you if you've donto runrthing your power accident. yeah. if you if you've donto run somebody)ur power accident. yeah. if you if you've donto run somebody over. wer accident. yeah. if you if you've donto run somebody over. i'm not to run somebody over. i'm afraid so. not to run somebody over. i'm afreyeah, that is the case, lewis. >> but but but nevertheless, he does hit an important point does hit on an important point with irish hate crime bill with the irish hate crime bill that's through now. that's coming through now. >> same >> they're saying the same thing. saying they're thing. they're saying they're going work out the going to have to work out the intention. and can't do intention. and you can't do that. you absolutely cannot that. >> people misgendering >> people are misgendering people place at the people all over the place at the moment because the amount of genders exponentially by

moment because the amount of genweek. exponentially by moment because the amount of genweek. yeah.xponentially by moment because the amount of genweek. yeah. so. nentially by moment because the amount of genweek. yeah. so. so tially by moment because the amount of genweek. yeah. so. so how by moment because the amount of genweek. yeah. so. so how on' the week. yeah. so. so how on earth? i'm still piggy trotter. >> well, but that's just >> well, okay, but that's just this week, tony. >> okay. but the trouble is, you can never know someone's intention because, a, they might not know their intention themselves because they don't know misgendering. know they're misgendering. b, they the state they could lie. c the state making a decision about what people is terrifying . yes. people think is terrifying. yes. he's just essentially got to add tolerance into society, which is continually being taken out . continually being taken out. >> so here's my problem with it mostly is that really mostly is that i'm really against the idea of compelled speech. someone wants to speech. so if someone wants to say about me, as say something rude about me, as i do all time, they i say, do all the time, they should able to do that should be able to do that without me going to the police and saying, these people need to speak so speak differently about me. so when someone says when i say when someone says you've the pronouns you've got to use the pronouns that i decide that you use about me, compelling someone me, that is compelling someone to a certain way, that to speak in a certain way, that way, tyranny lies. >> i happen to with you on >> i happen to agree with you on that the of it, that point. but the rest of it, i you're wrong. you can't i think you're wrong. you can't you can't tell you can try to tell. and they do this every single day in court. they look for motive behind every single case. they try to do so.

>> they try to do so. >> they try to do so. >> yes, they and whether >> yes, they do. and whether it's murder or getting into an automobile whatever, automobile accident or whatever, they it. they do look for it. >> paul well, people come up to me all the time and say, what did lewis when he said that did lewis mean when he said that on headliners >> i don't know. on headliners >> no, i don't know. on headliners >> no, no,on't know. on headliners >> no, no, because v. on headliners >> no, no, because he doesn't know nobody does. >> okay. we're going to move on to a question peter. to a question now from peter. where is peter? peter? >> what should we about >> hi. what should we do about the rise anti—semitism? um, yes. so obviously we've seen lots >> so obviously we've seen lots of examples of this this week in fact, for jewish schools in london closed. that was on thursday evening until tomorrow morning . this all come , morning. and this has all come, obviously, in light of these protests in london. people not just flying palestinian flags. i've seen signs and flags which are supportive of isis , are supportive of isis, supportive of hamas support of terrorists. that's a that's a development that very few people would have thought we'd see on the streets of london in such mass numbers. yeah there's so many multifaceted things here. >> of all, you need >> first of all, you need education, education about the situation , an education, about

situation, an education, about the difference between palestinians and hamas . palestinians and hamas. >> why is that so difficult for people to grasp? >> because. because. because there others, aren't they? there are others, aren't they? they're foreign. and therefore to people on the far left, anyone who's other or foreign is good. anything outside of white and british is good no matter what it is. irrespective of the fact that hamas are clearly the worst thing to happen to the palestinian people ever. >> i mean, they are. they are. >> i mean, they are. they are. >> well, this is where they will use them as as shields. >> they will ensure that the death of their civilians. death of their own civilians. and care. and they don't care. >> no, exactly. they put >> no, exactly. and they put they put their civilians in harm's know, make harm's way. you know, they make sure are in are sure that civilians are in are wherever statues weapons wherever the statues of weapons are. so when the israelis attack, so they do. the attack, so they do. and if the israelis is israelis say, look, this is where we're coming, we're coming for this area, they'll say, please out, coming please get out, we're coming tomorrow. hamas tomorrow. whereas whereas hamas will no, that's just will go, no, no, no, that's just propaganda. there. will go, no, no, no, that's just pro why nda. there. will go, no, no, no, that's just pro why does there. will go, no, no, no, that's just pro why does this there. will go, no, no, no, that's just pro why does this havelere. will go, no, no, no, that's just pro why does this have this knock >> why does this have this knock on effect? because a lot of people were this week people were surprised this week when matter, an when a black lives matter, an official lives official black lives matter account out a tweet in

account put out a tweet in support of palestine, but with an one of the terrorist an image of one of the terrorist paragliders from the attacks last week. so now, of course, people who have known about black lives matter from the start or who read what they actually said on their website, are not surprised by the support for terrorism. yeah, but a lot of have been surprised. of people have been surprised. and this conflation of terrorists with palestinian terrorists with with palestinian civilians, on? civilians, why is that going on? >> that's going on because >> well, that's going on because once upon a time, jews were considered to be like black people or as or black people. hitler killed the jews because they were the other and they weren't aryan. and i think and i think over time, jews have become more and more in the white camp and black lives matter is having a war with white racism. >> this doesn't make sense because israel, as you know, is ethnically diverse. there's all sorts of colours . sorts of skin colours. >> it is ethnically diverse, but israel was the last ethnic european ethno state and it was created by europe liens. it doesn't even matter if there were jews living there, if there were jews living there, if there were french people or germans or

engush were french people or germans or english people, the palestinians , the people who were living there, the population there, the muslim population would them out. so you would want them out. so if you look at the map, you just see israel and it says israel was created in 1970 by the balfour declaration in 1947 by independence. and they're considered to be an alien group in in israel . considered to be an alien group in in israel. uh, the considered to be an alien group in in israel . uh, the hatred of in in israel. uh, the hatred of the jews is set bit. right. but, but on that question though, louis, the anti—semitism question, i think what's shocked a lot of people this week, i mean, it's no surprise to anyone that hamas are anti—semitic. >> yeah, it's anti—semitism in the , it's schools closing in the uk, it's schools closing in the uk, it's schools closing in the mean, what make the uk. i mean, what do you make of that? well, because of all that? well, because because, one, there's because, number one, there's a tremendous number of people who've brought into the who've been brought into the country share english country who don't share english values . country who don't share english val|and they hate they hate >> and so they hate they hate the jews. other side of the jews. is the other side of it. is that because you can hate the jews , because the british the jews, because the british people are living are sort people are living here? are sort of with hatred for of not filled with hatred for the jews? that doesn't mean the rest of the world. >> do you think we need a more global sort of understanding of

this ? this? >> no, i think and i know many jews well, my parents. yeah. and i know many jews . and the i know many jews. and the problem of the jews is not like as paul lovely. he's a lovely guy , paul, but he's wrong all guy, paul, but he's wrong all the time . you can be wrong and the time. you can be wrong and lovely, but he's. he's like saying, we need more education. we need this, we need that. the fact is, is that the jews, jews are like a starfish on the beach is when the water is too high, they drown . when the water is they drown. when the water is too low, they bake in the sun. it's a very weird position for the jews to be in. there will always be anti—semitism from one side or the other . and it just side or the other. and it just it just happens to flow. and that's i'm not saying it's good anti semitism. >> that's interesting though on both anti—semitism, both sides like anti—semitism, people with the far people associate with the far right are used to be but now very much the left are sort very much the far left are sort of taking the lead on this and then change and then and then it'll change and then and then it'll change and then and then it'll change and then and then it'll change. >> go back again. >> it'll go back again. >> it'll go back again. >> education though. that's >> and education though. that's interesting because paul, i don't comes to don't think when it comes to some the statements i've

some of the statements i've heard this and seen on heard this week and seen on social i think these social media, i think these people beyond i people are beyond reason. i think who that think people who think that jewish people or who would jewish people are or who would excuse mass murder, the decapitation of babies, these horrors , i think you've lost horrors, i think you've lost your humanity at that point. if your humanity at that point. if you if you can find an excuse for that kind of thing. and i don't think you can reason with someone who's allowed their humanity to fall to that extent. >> no, because they don't they don't wrong. they don't want to be wrong. they want the other person to be wrong. they're they're so wrong. they're so they're so invested right, invested in being right, irrespective what the irrespective of what the question unbelievable. question is, is unbelievable. i said this the said on twitter this week the hamas terrorist group. hamas were a terrorist group. there there were many there were there were many comments saying i'd got comments on there saying i'd got that hamas is not that wrong. hamas is not a terrorist group and i haven't commented on any of them because what you say? you can't you what do you say? you can't you can't say, to at can't say, we need to look at this situation. i've said this all need look at all week. we need to look at this particular situation in isolation, because you start isolation, because if you start to whataboutery, you to bring in whataboutery, you say were say things like, oh, there were 40 slaughtered and 40 babies slaughtered and somebody says, what about somebody says, well, what about all a sudden the 40 babies all of a sudden the 40 babies slaughtered just parked over

there start another there and we start another discussion? it's madness. discussion? yeah, it's madness. we focus on what's gone we have to focus on what's gone on and why this is why i say even though i'm wrong, according to education. to lewis, we need education. >> offended by >> i wouldn't be offended by that. yeah because lewis is often wrong well, so he's often wrong as well, so he's probably wrong about you being wrong. yeah, what wrong. yeah. yeah, that's what neither right? neither of us are, right? >> it's like simultaneous equation. >> i think he's like. he's a lovely guy. is a lovely lovely guy. paul is a lovely guy, he's, you know, it's guy, but he's, you know, it's not about loving and, like, you say, their say, hamas, they've lost their way. they never lost their way. this this is they this is what this is what they believe in, way the way the believe in, the way the way the way islam spread. i hope i'm right this. islam right about this. the way islam spread would go across spread is they would go across to a town and they'd say, you either join us or we're to going you know, we're going to kill everybody. and the way everybody. and this is the way christians did it, too, back in the this is the way the day. this is the way everybody did it. they used to say, we're to going kill you all unless us. unless you join us. >> the mediaeval >> well, that's the mediaeval idea of the world, isn't it? right. when people are right. but when some people are stuck that kind of mediaeval stuck in that kind of mediaeval barbarism, that's a huge problem. know i don't know if

>> do you know i don't know if they're stuck in it. i think that doing what they that they're doing what they think mean, think is necessary. i mean, i don't think what they're like, don't i think what they're like, paulis don't i think what they're like, paul is right. you can't if someone see that killing someone doesn't see that killing babies there's babies is wrong, then there's nothing to them. but nothing you can say to them. but at the same time, they're thinking that there's equivalence. they think there's equivalence. they think there's equivalence way equivalence in the same way people country think people in this country think what is what israel is doing in gazais what is what israel is doing in gaza is equivalent. >> but there is also that issue of indoctrination. i saw a very chilling video of children in gaza talking about how when they grow to stab jews, grow up, they want to stab jews, talking about how their teachers tell them jews are vermin tell them that jews are vermin and all this kind of stuff. there is an indoctrination issue when a culture that is when you have a culture that is so of twisted in that way, so kind of twisted in that way, then young people will grow up with those horrible ideas embedded in them and what do you do? how do you break that cycle? >> that's not just happening in those countries. it's happening in country and across the in this country and across the west got a 14 year west as well. i've got a 14 year old daughter and spoken to old daughter and we've spoken to her this and her opinion her about this and her opinion based seen on based on what she'd seen on social was she was on the

social media was she was on the palestine side because that's the information that's being fed to course, our our job to her. of course, our our job as speak to her as parents is to speak to her better understand thinks better understand why she thinks that. give us some of the information, her some information, educate her in some way of way without terrifying her of course. it just goes to course. but it just goes to prove that even at that level across the west , there are across the west, there are people who are encouraging children to support palestine. and what they're not saying is, is there is a differentiation between hamas and palestine . between hamas and palestine. >> it's so important, though, isn't it? so key? it is important. lewis it is important, but they don't see the difference. >> i think paul to say >> and i think for paul to say that hamas is the worst thing to hit i think is wrong . hit palestine, i think is wrong. >> well, they haven't done them any favours, they? any favours, have they? >> don't know. >> you don't know. >> you don't know. >> of the aid that >> i mean, all of the aid that has gone to hamas who were elected into power in, what, has gone to hamas who were electe all|to power in, what, has gone to hamas who were electe all the|ower in, what, has gone to hamas who were electe all the aider in, what, has gone to hamas who were electe all the aid has. what, has gone to hamas who were electe all the aid has gone., has gone to hamas who were electe all the aid has gone into 2005, all the aid has gone into producing rocket launchers. and that's why they have that's why they don't have a sanitary sanitation system. that's why don't have water supplies. >> yeah, but you're judging it based on own what >> yeah, but you're judging it basipalestine own what >> yeah, but you're judging it basipalestine needs what >> yeah, but you're judging it basipalestine needs likewhat >> yeah, but you're judging it basipalestine needs like is1at the palestine needs is like is like in maslow's hierarchy . if like in maslow's hierarchy. if i remember correctly , you know, at

remember correctly, you know, at some point other things are more important than a sewer system. your own price guide. and i think what hamas has given these people is pride . it sounds like people is pride. it sounds like crazy, but we have to move on to another question. >> this one is from michael hall. where is michael? hi, michael . hi. michael. hi. >> our lloyds bank staff particularly sensitive. >> you would think. i >> yeah. you would think. i mean, so this is the lloyds bank's been in the news because one of the bosses of lloyds bank basically emailed was basically emailed i think it was up members of staff up to 30,000 members of staff and they were offering therapy. they were offering free counselling who counselling for staff who were traumatised by what rishi sunak said at the conservative party conference. now what he said was a man is a man and a woman is a woman. so apparently you need therapy that. that right? therapy for that. is that right? >> right. it's >> no, it's not right. it's absolutely not right. i mean, the i've the story and the fact i've read the story and it's clear to me, but i'm it's not clear to me, but i'm going to make an assumption that they this before they offered this help before anyone or one anyone came to them or one person to them. person came to them. >> it was the director human >> it was the director of human resources, would be why. resources, which would be why. so justification of

so this is justification of their own job. >> what's there. >> that's what's happened there. it's a surveyor going into it's like a surveyor going into your house you're trying your house before you're trying to they've find to sell it. they've got to find something. othennise on something. othennise what on earth paying them for? earth are you paying them for? so the director has to so the director of hr has to say, crikey, are you affected say, oh crikey, are you affected by what rishi sunak said? and then they'll will be then they'll will inevitably be people couple people going, i'd love a couple of work. so yes, i'm of days off work. so yes, i'm terribly affected. yeah, but look, i know i saw of look, i know i saw a lot of people online about people commenting online about how upset they were, about what happened party, what happened at the tory party, what was party was said at the tory party conference, i don't conference, and i don't disbelieve but then, you disbelieve them, but then, you know, supporters know, conservative supporters are likely to be upset what are likely to be upset by what they hear at labour party conference. >> we just have hr >> right? we can't just have hr departments saying need departments saying that we need counselling someone counselling every time someone says something, we disagree with. you can run, but you >> well, you can run, but you can't say it. what's the point? louis point is, as paul louis the point is, as paul points one guy points out, it's just one guy pressing send button to pressing the send button to 30,000. very easy to do. 30,000. it's very easy to do. and it's of pathetic, and it's kind of pathetic, though, isn't it? is though, isn't it? it is pathetic. as i've said many pathetic. but as i've said many times, we're in a war. we're in a war. and once the big war is the war between team, the war between world team, world between world and localism, between individual rights and localism

and team world, which is like we all have feelings and we've got to care about everybody. and we, you know, everybody's kumbaya and gets so it is crazy . and gets along. so it is crazy. but i understand where it comes from . and the truth is the truth from. and the truth is the truth is, i've listened to some of these party conference bosses. they are really horrible no matter what it is. the labour, the conservatives, the lib dems, probably the worst, less boring more than anything . more than anything. >> yeah, exactly. except for the lib conference. tim farron lib dem conference. tim farron got booed. was quite exciting. >> but i was listening to the tory conference and you know, rishi is not going do rishi sunak is not going to do anything that needs to do. anything that he needs to do. he's to something and he's got to do something and he's anything. he's not doing anything. >> nothing. he said that was controversial. asking controversial. i was asking for it. there nothing he said >> there was nothing he said that controversial. but the that was controversial. but the but but conservative are but the but the conservative are shouting action shouting out for action on. yeah. he's giving them yeah. and he's giving them basically keir starmer's line. well something. >> okay. we've got time for just one quick question from julie. where's julie? hi, hi where's julie? hi, julie. hi >> sacked for >> should you be sacked for criticising road signs ? criticising road signs? >> yeah, this is a professor.

this sounds made up. it's not nigel hunt. oh, he's lost his position . he was a visiting position. he was a visiting psychology professor at wrexham university, and it was just a comment he made on social media and he was talking about road signs specifically he signs specifically, he was talking the that in talking about the fact that in wales, signs are wales, the road signs are bilingual , wales, the road signs are bilingual, which means, of course, read them in a course, you can't read them in a hurry it can a little bit hurry and it can be a little bit confusing. he was just saying that there danger related that there is a danger related to and he lost his job. to that and he lost his job. isn't that odd? >> well, if you'd asked me that five ago, would have five years ago, i would have said it's very odd, andrea. said yes. it's very odd, andrea. but , sat here seems but today, sat here seems perfectly normal , doesn't it? but today, sat here seems perfe(|t( normal , doesn't it? but today, sat here seems perfe( it seems1l , doesn't it? but today, sat here seems perfe( it seems likeioesn't it? but today, sat here seems perfe( it seems like the n't it? but today, sat here seems perfe( it seems like the sort? but today, sat here seems perfe( it seems like the sort of yeah. it seems like the sort of thing that would happen on a daily basis and does. it's daily basis and it does. it's absolutely crazy. of course, this is another i mean, i'm going to this. i feel like going to say this. i feel like lewis infected some lewis has infected me in some way. but but this is this way. but this but this is this is this is team world because it is. i'll tell you why it is because lewis has no what because lewis has no idea what it means i'm just he it means yet. but i'm just he keeps telling me i should use it. my image. it. it'll improve my image. okay. because this is this okay. it's because this is this is feelings over science and fact again. so all this guy fact once again. so all this guy

is you're in a is arguing is if you're in a situation where you're stressed and driving need to make and driving and you need to make and driving and you need to make a decision easier, a quick decision in half easier, if is 5% of you speak english if 95 is 5% of you speak english to read english on the sign. okay. >> well, this is the point about this everyone who speaks this is that everyone who speaks welsh also speaks english. yeah. so really no it so there's really no when it comes and safety comes to health and safety issue, really reason. issue, there's really no reason. now, i welsh speakers, now, i know welsh speakers, there real zealotry there is a lot of real zealotry about these kind things. you about these kind of things. you know, down signs if know, people tear down signs if they're bilingual. i no they're not bilingual. i have no problem with bilingual signs. if you're going to the theatre, if you're going to the theatre, if you're going to the theatre, if you're going to you're going, if you're going to a where there a waiting room where there are signs that's an issue. signs up, that's not an issue. have bilingual sign a road have a bilingual sign on a road where need a split second. where you need a split second. you to be able to see you need to be able to see something very quickly. then surely ideology be surely your ideology should be subsumed the idea of, of subsumed to the idea of, of course, someone safety, because before they'll before you know it, they'll start ideology to start applying ideology to health regulations health and safety regulations which are bonkers anyway. >> to >> but if you want feelings to health and safety, we are in a whole world of trouble. we'll all be walking in all be walking around in protective all be walking around in prolewis�* all be walking around in pro lewis any thoughts on >> lewis any thoughts on bilingual road signs? >> i do have thoughts on >> yeah, i do have thoughts on it. what they it. it's basically what they want. want the people

want. they want the welsh people want. they want the welsh people want their want to bring back their language and is well, language and which is well, that's actually true. that's not actually true. >> i mean, for instance, i have a welsh friends who don't speak welsh to welsh and what they've said to me out to me is that me and pointed out to me is that actually predominantly the welsh speakers middle class, speakers are upper middle class, they're the posh people because they're the posh people because they to those they were able to go to those posh schools that teach welsh and working class. posh schools that teach welsh and peoplevorking class. posh schools that teach welsh and people generallyiss. posh schools that teach welsh and people generally don't welsh people generally don't speak sure speak welsh, so i'm not sure you're right about that. >> i meant as a generalisation, as the state, the welsh state, the people, let's say, the welsh people, let's say, yes, to it back, yes, they want to bring it back, but already there. but it's already there. >> speak welsh. >> people can't speak welsh. >> people can't speak welsh. >> i know, but it was >> no, i know, but it was basically a dead language because the english stopped them from from using it. >> true. historically. yes >> it's true. historically. yes >> it's true. historically. yes >> seems like a good >> and so it seems like a good idea their point view. idea from their point of view. in the way that when the in the same way that when the jews re birthed yes, it jews re birthed hebrew, yes, it was good idea to create a but was a good idea to create a but i'm objecting to the idea i'm not objecting to the idea that rejuvenation that the rejuvenation of a language that i am. >> okay. okay. louis i'm talking specifically about road signs and what and about the pragmatism of what happens are put at happens when people are put at risk anyway. look, haven't risk anyway. look, we haven't got more in this got time for any more in this section, next on speech section, but next on free speech nation, earlier, nation, as mentioned earlier,

the in israel the tragic violence in israel and has had profound and and gaza has had profound and sad implications british sad implications for british jews spiked jews. tom slater from spiked will to discuss the will be here to discuss the shocking rise in anti—semitic incidents. anywhere incidents. do not go anywhere near

gaza to gb news radio show. >> welcome back to free speech nafion. nation. >> the biggest news story of the week has obviously been the devastating violence which has occurred in the middle east, which began when the terrorist group hamas launched an unprecedent on israel unprecedent assault on israel last around 1300 people last weekend around 1300 people were killed by group. dozens were killed by the group. dozens taken hostage, prompting retaliatory airstrikes by israel into gaza , which has killed over into gaza, which has killed over 2000 people in israel, is now preparing for a ground invasion of the strip. the violence in israel and gaza has had terrible consequences people consequences for jewish people here at home. there's been a quadrupling in anti—semitic incidents in the week. some incidents in the last week. some jewish schools closed on friday due to concerns over the safety of pupils. and seems that of pupils. and it seems that anti—semitism remains a problem in britain. tom slater has been

writing about this subject for spiked this week. he joins me now. tom, to the show. now. tom, welcome to the show. thank obviously, this is thank you. obviously, this is a horrible story. there seems to be of certainty amongst be a degree of certainty amongst some the comments i've seen some of the comments i've seen online, the things that online, some of the things that protesters been saying. protesters have been saying. they this very much they have reduced this very much to a narrative of good versus evil. is it that that young evil. why is it that that young people certain about this people are so certain about this incredibly political incredibly complex political situation? i think it's a combination of things. >> i guess i think what we've seen out onto our own seen spill out onto our own streets in recent days terms streets in recent days in terms of celebration hamas in of open celebration of hamas in some mocking some instances almost mocking nods to the killers, people walking around london with stickers their backs of stickers on their backs of paragliders which obvious paragliders, which is an obvious nod the people who were paragliders, which is an obvious nod into people who were paragliders, which is an obvious nod into southern 'ho were paragliders, which is an obvious nod into southern israelre paragliders, which is an obvious nod into southern israel in flying into southern israel in order to murder people. i think there's on the one hand, there is a kind islamist is a kind of islamist anti—semitism, which is obviously something which we need seriously. need to take very seriously. that's ingrained, it? that's ingrained, isn't it? exactly only been exactly and it's not only been what's attacks, what's fuelled these attacks, but fuelled of but it's also fuelled some of the whataboutery and excuse making celebration in making and even celebration in the think that's with the uk. i think that's met with a kind woke anti—semitism, if a kind of woke anti—semitism, if you a kind of way in which

you like, a kind of way in which identity politics has rehabilitated or provided cover for anti—semitism because of these crude hierarchies of victimhood in some bizarre way, the jews who have been so incredibly, historically oppressed, slaughtered and so on, have been just assigned as whites , even hyper white, whites, even hyper white, according to the of pyramid according to the sort of pyramid of and oppression of victimhood and oppression that exists. and as a consequence of that, people genuinely struggle to see the slaughter of innocents, including infants . but even including infants. but even outside of that framework, it's really racial. >> i mean, there are many, many brown israelis , so it just brown israelis, so itjust doesn't work this. oh, no , these doesn't work this. oh, no, these people are ignorant as much as anything else actual anything else of the actual conflict that they're talking about. >> as you say, israel is an incredibly diverse country. it really in terms of really doesn't work in terms of the it also doesn't the framing. it also doesn't work how are you work insofar as how are you talking about these people being oppressors meaningful oppressors in any meaningful way when at a when they were gunned down at a music festival or in own music festival or in their own homes. this doesn't make any sense. were civilians, but sense. these were civilians, but these are the sorts of ideologies we're dealing with. >> think a lot of this does >> i think a lot of this does expose the power of ideology to

sort of rob of our basic sort of rob us of our basic humanity, because i've humanity, right? because i've really this week to really struggled this week to understand mean, know understand and i mean, i know that very passionate that people are very passionate views israel—palestine. and views on israel—palestine. and even that even if you take the view that the palestinian have been the palestinian people have been oppressed and subjugated, et cetera, people do, how cetera, as many people do, how can you then leap from that to justifying the actions we saw last week? i can't square it. i don't understand how you can do that and still retain your humanity. >> i think the problem here is the fact that especially when you talk about people in the west are watching west who are watching this conflict safety conflict from the safety of their london engaging their london flats, engaging with the basis of a with it only on the basis of a screen, think of the screen, i think one of the things that we've really got to confront here is this proves that has never been about that this has never been about palestine in palestine for these people in the place. yeah, the first place. yeah, anti—semitism has in many anti—semitism has come in many different historically. different forms historically. originally religious originally it was a religious hatred, it became a racial hatred, then it became a racial hatred. it's very much hatred. now it's very much projected israel itself. projected on to israel itself. you anti—semitic you see classic anti—semitic tropes controlling tropes about jews controlling the delighting in the the world or delighting in the murder of babies, is murder of babies, which is grimly ironic the context of grimly ironic in the context of what talking about being what we're talking about being a classic anti—semitic slurs which are now just presented onto

israel i when you israel. and i think when you have who are rushing out have people who are rushing out into to celebrate into the streets to celebrate the murder of israeli civilians who jewish, who predominantly jewish, israeli , what israeli civilians, what conclusion draw other conclusion can we draw other than the fact that the world's oldest made a grim oldest hatred has made a grim comeback that sense? comeback in that sense? >> the other thing that >> and the other thing that we've seen i mean, a lot of people have struggled to understand deny understand how anyone can deny the right. the holocaust, right. because the holocaust, right. because the there. so the evidence is just there. so ovennhelming. mountains of books have charting and have been written charting and documenting of documenting the full evidence of the the holocaust. documenting the full evidence of the yet the holocaust. documenting the full evidence of the yet tihavelocaust. documenting the full evidence of the yet tihave persisted in and yet people have persisted in denying but this week we've denying it. but this week we've seen people deny what hamas have done, though done, even though they've they've own they've released their own videos did and videos of what they did and boasted it. and yet you've boasted about it. and yet you've still saying, well , still got people saying, well, no, weren't killed still got people saying, well, nothis weren't killed still got people saying, well, nothis didn't weren't killed still got people saying, well, nothis didn't happen.n't killed still got people saying, well, nothis didn't happen. thisilled still got people saying, well, nothis didn't happen. this iszd or this didn't happen. this is fake news. what's happening there? >> there an absolute >> there was an absolute grotesque which took >> there was an absolute grotesthis which took >> there was an absolute grotesthis week, which took >> there was an absolute grotesthis week, which hich took >> there was an absolute grotesthis week, which hich over place this week, which was over this question infants this question about infants being again, a couple being murdered. again, a couple of not of claims which were not actually a particular actually made by a particular journalist were manned, mangled together, the together, misrepresented the claim. therefore, they said that these journalists line they're claiming 44 have been claiming 44 babies have been beheaded. journalist had ever beheaded. no journalist had ever

claimed incidentally. but claimed that, incidentally. but essentially this essentially it became this incredibly discussion, essentially it became this incred is y discussion, essentially it became this incred is to discussion, essentially it became this incred is to say, discussion, essentially it became this incred is to say, well, ision, essentially it became this incred is to say, well, they which is to say, well, they might have been murdered, but they weren't beheaded. and you think if we're getting into a situation we're quibbling situation where we're quibbling about method about the number and the method through children through which jewish children were killed, you are getting into kind of holocaust denial territory. of territory. it had such echoes of the say, don't don't the people who say, don't don't get wrong. i'm sure it get me wrong. i'm sure it happened and it was bad, but it wasn't 6 million. has very wasn't 6 million. it has a very similar to i think similar tenor to it. and i think we need to take that very, very seriously. >> and what about the question of anti—semitism within britain and schools and of anti—semitism within britain and kind schools and of anti—semitism within britain and kind of schools and of anti—semitism within britain and kind of thing? schools and of anti—semitism within britain and kind of thing? ichools and of anti—semitism within britain and kind of thing? i mean, and that kind of thing? i mean, people are genuinely scared at the moment. and it's as say, the moment. and it's as you say, you know, on the streets you know, people on the streets openly terrorism. it openly celebrating terrorism. it doesn't secure as doesn't make you feel secure as part community. part of that community. >> it doesn't. and i think gentiles, were, needs to gentiles, as it were, needs to take responsibility for take a lot of responsibility for allowing get bad. allowing things to get this bad. and making sure that and also for making sure that our british jewish brothers and sisters feel a lot safer and supported point because supported at this point because this on a this has been going on for a very long time. one of the fascinating things about britain and other countries that and many other countries is that we about racism, we talk endlessly about racism,

often point of often to the point of triviality, microaggressions and so day so on. things you talk about day in, in terms of where in, day out in terms of where the left is going wrong and anti racism, yet anti—semitism. the left is going wrong and anti racismost yet anti—semitism. the left is going wrong and anti racismost historically semitism. the left is going wrong and anti racismost historically vicious m. the most historically vicious form racism, is still a form of racism, is still a genuine problem in this country. and don't about it and yet we don't talk about it at their point 5% of at all. their point 5% of the population, victims 25% population, the victims of 25% of religiously motivated of the religiously motivated hate when i say hate hate crimes. and when i say hate crimes, i don't mean people saying things on the saying mean things on the internet. talking about internet. i'm talking about jewish cemeteries being desecrated. kent desecrated. there's one in kent that's eight desecrated. there's one in kent that's in eight desecrated. there's one in kent that's in ten eight desecrated. there's one in kent that's in ten years. eight desecrated. there's one in kent that's in ten years. people|ht times in ten years. people aren't aware of these stories. so of course, come to a so of course, it's come to a head now and really vicious fashion. is something fashion. but this is something that's time and that's been flaring up time and time recent and time again in recent years, and yet it's been ignored. >> is it such a blind >> but why is it such a blind spot? i mean, i don't understand. for the people who claim be on side of claim to be on the side of social justice, how can this as you say, the history is clear, so they those who claim so how can they those who claim to justice and to be for social justice and progressivism such a blind progressivism have such a blind spotin progressivism have such a blind spot in this case? >> think a whole mix of >> i think it's a whole mix of things. i it's the jews things. i think it's the jews don't phenomenon, as david things. i think it's the jews don't hasphenomenon, as david things. i think it's the jews don't has talked1enon, as david things. i think it's the jews don't has talked about as david things. i think it's the jews don't has talked about it, david baddiel has talked about it, which is that we seem to care about every identity group apart

from identity from every oppressed identity group, apart from group, i should say, apart from this i think, this particular one. i think, you know, there might be a background just being background of people just being unaware is taking unaware that this is taking place. very place. it's a very small community, but think we've got community, but i think we've got to recognise that there been to recognise that there has been a has been a downplaying of what has been going on because the treatment of jewish people not of the jewish people does not fit script and fit the identitarian script and therefore to kind be therefore it has to kind of be pushed to one side. and that's something really to something which really needs to stop think what stop right now. i think what about debates surrounding multiculturalism? >> lot of >> because this week a lot of people said, look, we are people have said, look, we are seeing people openly celebrating the mass murder civilians on the mass murder of civilians on the mass murder of civilians on the this is proof that the streets. this is proof that multicultural failed. do multicultural ism has failed. do you connecting you think they are connecting the a a way there? >> i think it's definitely a part of this discussion. i think it's important that when it's important to say that when we're about the we're talking about the phenomenon in phenomenon of anti—semitism in britain, exclusively phenomenon of anti—semitism in britairbritish exclusively phenomenon of anti—semitism in britairbritish muslims.usively about british muslims necessarily. this is not exclusively about one particular group. all group. if you think about all the anti—semitism in the the kind of anti—semitism in the labour which existed, the kind of anti—semitism in the labnthere which existed, the kind of anti—semitism in the labnthere is which existed, the kind of anti—semitism in the labnthere is clearly existed, the kind of anti—semitism in the labnthere is clearly a existed, the kind of anti—semitism in the labnthere is clearly a problem i, but there is clearly a problem with a kind of form of islamist anti—semitism, has been anti—semitism, which has been propagandised you can see that muslim youth. you can see that on streets london, some on the streets of london, some of protests, we can't of these protests, we can't ignore that. and i also think

there's a tremendous racism to assuming that this these issues can't necessarily be tackled. you in some of you saw it even in some of the discussions the attacks you saw it even in some of the discusessentiallye attacks you saw it even in some of the discus essentially , attacks you saw it even in some of the discus essentially , the cks you saw it even in some of the discusessentially , the problem itself, essentially, the problem with is not with multiculturalism is not the fact in a diverse fact that we live in a diverse society there are british society where there are british muslims people muslims and jewish people and hindu that's hindu people and so on. that's not criticising . not what people criticising. most criticise most people criticise multiculturalism most people criticise multi(isturalism most people criticise multi(is aralism most people criticise multi(is a wayn most people criticise multi(is a way in which we have mean is a way in which we have essentially introduced a kind of non—judgmental ism that if that one person's supposedly kind of authentic cultural beliefs , even authentic cultural beliefs, even if they're deeply reactionary, shouldn't be challenged in any meaningful sense , that we should meaningful sense, that we should issue any of shared values issue any sense of shared values that we have in common, which i hope at least that hope would at least include that murdering a bad murdering babies is a bad thing. and problem and i think that's the problem that debate, that we've got in this debate, is people say is that when people say multiculturalism, think, multiculturalism, people think, oh, the oh, you're just criticising the fact diverse britain. not fact of a diverse britain. not in slightest. the issue in the slightest. the issue is that non—judgmental that that non—judgmental ism that destruction of of a kind destruction of a sense of a kind of set values we of shared set of values that we can around, and that can all rally around, and that inability to take seriously these prejudices when they arise because a nervousness because there's a nervousness about tackling them depending on which coming from. well, suppose people see >> well, i suppose people see it as they're nervous about the idea islam

idea of attacking islam generally. and, you know , when generally. and, you know, when trevor phillips did his survey of british muslims and found that a small, slight majority believed that homosexuality should be illegal, well, that's not trivial. that's actually a significant thing that ought to be addressed, not for gay be addressed, not least for gay muslims, way . but muslims, by the way. but suddenly were denying it suddenly people were denying it and is just and saying, no, this is just islamophobic. and saying, no, this is just islamophobic . surely there is islamophobic. surely if there is a a community of a problem within a community of a problem within a community of a form of bigotry, it's a certain form of bigotry, it's worth addressing at the very least, rather than denying it, it is worth addressing. >> think it's also important >> i think it's also important that these people >> i think it's also important tha'part these people >> i think it's also important tha'part of these people >> i think it's also important tha'part of own lese people >> i think it's also important tha'part of own community. are part of our own community. is is nation, are is this is our nation, these are our fellow citizens, our neighbours friends so our fellow citizens, our neigso ours friends so our fellow citizens, our neigso this friends so our fellow citizens, our neigso this is friends so our fellow citizens, our neigso this is not�*iends so our fellow citizens, our neigso this is not somethingso on. so this is not something that we compartmentalise at that we can compartmentalise at the where there is a the same time where there is a specific problem, we specific problem, of course we should on. and should tackle it head on. and when essentially equate when we essentially equate it hardline religiously conservative or even kind of islamist position with if we equate criticising that with islamophobia , you're throwing islamophobia, you're throwing liberal muslims under the bus, you're throwing, as you say, gay muslims under the bus. you're throwing ex—muslims under the bus because you're suggesting that these people who are potentially going out in the

streets of london saying yesterday glorifying hamas streets of london saying yesthe ay glorifying hamas streets of london saying yesthe authenticnrifying hamas streets of london saying yesthe authentic ,ifying hamas are the authentic, quintessential voice of british muslims . that's a deeply muslims. that's a deeply reactionary racist position reactionary and racist position to hold it almost assumes that, of course, they're never going to be liberal and enlightened. it's dna. it's it's just not in their dna. it's a ugly prejudice, in a really ugly prejudice, in fact, politically fact, packaged in politically correct form, i think. >> very interesting . >> okay. well, very interesting. i'm a lot more to i'm sure there's a lot more to talk this future weeks. talk about this in future weeks. tom thanks much for tom slater, thanks so much for joining tom slater, thanks so much for joirthank you . and next on free >> thank you. and next on free speech nation in two weekends time, we'll once again be at the battle of ideas for our annual special program . special program. >> the co—convener of the event ella whelan , will be here to ella whelan, will be here to tell us what to expect from this years tell us what to expect from this year's festival of free speech and debate. don't go anywhere . and debate. don't go anywhere.

gb news radio. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me. andrew doyle. this year's battle of ideas festival will be held at church house in westminster on the 28th

and 29th of october. october followed by another event at devonshire dome in buxton on the 25th of november for the westminster event will feature over 100 debates, almost 400 speakers and debate is the key word because all sides of the argument are heard from and free speech is definitely the order of the day. no question of anyone being no platformed or cancelled the audience will be a huge part of the debates with time aside at the for time set aside at the end for people to ask questions and give their views. so the third their views. so for the third year free speech year in a row, free speech nafion year in a row, free speech nation will be filming a special episode festival. be episode at the festival. i'll be there will co—convenor there and so will co—convenor ella who now. ella whelan, who joins me now. ella, show . tell ella, welcome to the show. tell us about it. battle of ideas us all about it. battle of ideas festival this now? festival. what year is this now? how have you been doing? >> 17, i believe. 16 or 17. okay. it's been you know, we've gotten and bigger gotten bigger and bigger and bigger each year, taking on shows yourself, shows like yourself, we're delighted going to delighted that this is going to be year of free speech be the third year of free speech nation, and you're going to be in conversation with graham nation, and you're going to be in conveasition with graham nation, and you're going to be in conve asition ers graham nation, and you're going to be in conve asition ers very am linehan as well. yes very exciting. tom slater, who exciting. and tom slater, who you just from, going to you just heard from, is going to have podcast there. you just heard from, is going to have last podcast there. you just heard from, is going to havelast orders podcast there. you just heard from, is going to havelast orders and :ast there. you just heard from, is going to havelast orders and thingsere. you just heard from, is going to havelast orders and things like

and last orders and things like that. also , as you that. but also, as you mentioned, got this sort mentioned, we've got this sort of the battle becomes this sprawling event that covers, you know, all different kinds of areas of public life, whether it's your standard politics sort of sessions like what's going to happenif of sessions like what's going to happen if labour gets into power after a general election speculative kind of session like that. speculative kind of session like that . economy strands looking at that. economy strands looking at what's happening in the world of business with edi and diverse initiatives and all the rest of it to whether or not the uk is a basket case when it comes to the economy and then sort of, you know, things that are very of the moment. we've got whole the moment. we've got a whole strand and what we're strand on. i and what we're really in looking at really interested in looking at is or not our sort of is whether or not our sort of the government seems to be moving being the best in moving towards being the best in the world at regulating ai. and we question of we want to ask the question of whether really or whether whether that's really or whether that's making full that's really making full advantage of ai's potentials or whether of whether that's kind of pessimistic, whether it's going whether that's kind of pessirtheic, whether it's going whether that's kind of pessirtheic, wof:her it's going whether that's kind of pessirtheic, wof:her it's things to be the end of art and things like there's sort of like that. so there's sort of more niche things like looking like that. so there's sort of m(the1iche things like looking like that. so there's sort of m(the world hings like looking like that. so there's sort of m(the world ofigs like looking like that. so there's sort of m(the world of neurodiversityj at the world of neurodiversity and asking questions about

whether we're all neurodiverse now we've got someone called david swift working that's really exciting and arts sessions around and know balloon debate on what's the best screen adaptation. so there's really something for everyone there. but the kind of ones i wanted to mention was , you know, the part mention was, you know, the part of the difficulty in planning a festival like this, because we start course, and start last year, of course, and we've had this, you know, previous years where you think you might have one session on russia and suddenly the war russia and then suddenly the war happens ukraine. and so we're happens in ukraine. and so we're sort thinking on our sort of used to thinking on our feet. this year has been feet. but this year has been there's it's been there's been it's been particularly volatile in politics, , as it happens, politics, which, as it happens, we think good thing because we think is a good thing because , change is always , you know, change is always there's always something to talk about to change. and about in relation to change. and stagnation the big stagnation is sort of the big evil of our time, i think. but if take an issue like if you take an issue like conversion yes, mean, conversion therapy, yes, i mean, we've to fro in that in we've been to and fro in that in this country for last, you we've been to and fro in that in this c(well, for last, you we've been to and fro in that in this c(well, for months:, you we've been to and fro in that in this c(well, for months now . the know, well, for months now. the government's saying they will ban though they won't ban it, though they won't ban it. this loophole, it. there'll be this loophole, though. there won't be this loophole. scrapped loophole. then it gets scrapped and then the labour party anneliese dodds in and her

anneliese dodds comes in and her speech says, speech at conference and says, we scrap we we will absolutely scrap it. we will make sure there's will we will make sure there's no loopholes at all. so we're having on which having a session on that which we previously thought maybe we wouldn't. are going to wouldn't. but we are going to talk that. we're also talk about that. we're also going be talking some going to be talking about some of that we've of the issues that we've previously whether previously planned, like whether or how far protests should go , or how far protests should go, which previously we envisaged as something that would look at just oil extinction just stop oil extinction rebellion. but of course now it's going look at some of it's going to look at some of the, know, pro—palestine the, you know, pro—palestine protests. you know, thinking protests. yes you know, thinking about whether it's the right thing for emmanuel macron to ban pro—palestine protests in france. i don't think it is . or, france. i don't think it is. or, you know, where does protest end and hate speech begin and all that stuff that you're very familiar with talking about on free speech nation, we really want to get into this is the great thing the festival great thing about the festival is sort of cover everything. >> you and a lot of >> you know and what a lot of people haven't been before people who haven't been before might know, might not realise is, you know, it's weekend. you turn it's a whole weekend. you turn up any given time during the up at any given time during the day, there what, up to ten day, there are, what, up to ten different can different debates. you can choose attend. you can

choose to attend. so you can really for really sort of decide for yourself what experience you have and the have of the weekend and the other love other great thing, which i love is session built is that every session has built into it the idea that the audience get involved. they audience can get involved. they stand make arguments. audience can get involved. they starget make arguments. audience can get involved. they starget a make arguments. audience can get involved. they starget a back make arguments. audience can get involved. they starget a back and e arguments. audience can get involved. they starget a back and forth.|ments. audience can get involved. they starget a back and forth. iients. audience can get involved. they starget a back and forth. i mean, audience can get involved. they starwist a back and forth. i mean, audience can get involved. they starwis really:k and forth. i mean, audience can get involved. they starwis really:k ancis)rth. i mean, audience can get involved. they starwis really:k ancis so]. i mean, audience can get involved. they starwis really:k ancis so needed n, this is really what is so needed at moment. at the moment. >> yeah, well, mean, actually, >> yeah, well, i mean, actually, with respect to our with the greatest respect to our speakers and for speakers who come and do it for nothing and they're, you know, experts , the experts in their field, the audience we're most audience is what we're most interested speakers interested in. so the speakers get bit of time at the get a little bit of time at the start, maybe five minutes set start, maybe five minutes to set out and then it's out their stall and then it's straight of town straight into a kind of town hall debate of we don't hall style debate of we don't just ask people to ask questions . some of the best . in fact, some of the best speeches ever heard much speeches i've ever heard as much as it gets you know, as a chair, it gets you know, you have to stop people from making but the making manifest those. but the best i've i've best speeches i've i've encountered have been from audience and think audience members. and i think there's feeling in sort of there's this feeling in sort of there's this feeling in sort of the country right now where there's a lot of shouting at the television and there's a lot of political apathy or despondency, a of, you know, desire to a kind of, you know, a desire to be in something, but an be involved in something, but an unwillingness your unwillingness to give your support these sort of support to any of these sort of fairly useless sides of political, political parties .

political, political parties. and i think people come with a kind of desire that they have to have heard . yes, we have their voices heard. yes, we think you know, the think that's, you know, the heart of populism, the heart of democracy, free democracy, the heart of free speech idea that you have speech is the idea that you have an open public debate. so come and have your say. and you know, free speech allowed. as we say, it's not encouraged. it's it's not just encouraged. it's central to all of our work. >> yeah, absolutely brilliant. as say, i'll hosting free as you say, i'll be hosting free speech on the speech nation live there on the saturday which will saturday afternoon, which will then the also, then go out on the sunday. also, i'm talking to graham linehan, creator ted , about his creator of father ted, about his new book. so there's all sorts creator of father ted, about his nestuff)k. so there's all sorts creator of father ted, about his nestuff)k. so on.'e's all sorts creator of father ted, about his nestuff)k. so on. brilliantyrts of stuff going on. brilliant discounts for school pupils. they barely pay nothing anything really day . really free day. >> and then the next day it's if you're a student or you work in stem £27.50, which is a stem, it's £27.50, which is a huge discount. yeah, we've got all kinds of different promo codes and discounts for any kind of campaign groups that you're organised most organised with. but most importantly reason came importantly, the reason i came in rather flattering getup in this rather flattering getup is if you want to, if you is that if you want to, if you don't have any which lots don't have any cash, which lots of us don't at the moment, and you can't afford the tickets, that barrier stopping

that isn't a barrier to stopping you to festival. you from going to the festival. you can volunteer with us. you get these fancy outfits get one of these fancy outfits and us run the and you help us run the microphones. and it really is just a few hours for just a few hours help for a complete free pass to the entire festival. >> it's great way to the >> it's a great way to see the debate know, meet debate and, you know, meet speakers, members. speakers, meet audience members. >> think we have >> and also, i think we have this the festival this thing at the festival called market, where this thing at the festival cal i�*d market, where this thing at the festival cali mean market, where this thing at the festival cali mean campaigniet, where this thing at the festival cali mean campaign groupsere this thing at the festival cali mean campaign groups from all i mean campaign groups from we've coming down, we've got feed coming down, which organisation looking which is an organisation looking at formula provision for poverty stricken families. we've got sex matters, got all kinds of matters, we've got all kinds of free, free speech, union loads of different organisations. we throw into tight space throw them into a tight space and of wander around and you kind of wander around the stalls and meet people. >> yeah, >> brilliant. yeah, it's a fantastic people go to w fantastic so people can go to w battle dot org .uk and battle of ideas dot org .uk and you can buy a pass for one day or both days. it's a brilliant event. ella, thanks much event. ella, thanks so much for joining . and next joining us. thank you. and next on free speech nation women's rights group filia managed to hold a conference in glasgow this week despite an intimidation campaign waged by trans activists to try and shut the conference down. one of the conference attendees will join

us to explain what happened. see you in a moment

welcome back to free speech nation. an event organised by women's rights group filia successfully went ahead in glasgow this weekend despite attempts to shut it down by trans activists. susan smith, a director of for women scotland , director of for women scotland, attended the event. she joins me now. susan, can you hear me ? now. susan, can you hear me? thanks for joining now. susan, can you hear me? thanks forjoining me. now. susan, can you hear me? thanks forjoining me . yes. thanks for joining me. yes. could you tell us a little bit about the event, the filia event that it took place in glasgow this weekend ? this weekend? >> so filia is the largest feminist conference in europe, possibly the world, but the data is not there. but it's huge. and there were 1500 women there this weekend . um, there were another , weekend. um, there were another, i think 800 on the waiting list. you couldn't get tickets . so you couldn't get tickets. so it's a massive event . it

it's a massive event. it features women from all over the world covering lots of topics. so you've got people coming in from countries like iran and afghanistan talking about specific issues in their countries, talking about things like fgm , about forced marriage , like fgm, about forced marriage, about, you know, male violence, all these things. it's um, but it's about women's issues and women's rights and because of that, it's been targeted by people who don't actually like the idea of women having a conference to talk about things that affect women, which is shocking because filia is not out there to talk about trans issues, but they've decided to target it anyway . target it anyway. >> and we saw footage of people outside the conference screaming abuse at women going along to discuss their rights. it was quite shocking . did you see any quite shocking. did you see any of the protest ? s i quite shocking. did you see any of the protest? s i didn't. >> i didn't get there on on

friday morning, but i saw i saw the footage of it. and i know the footage of it. and i know the individual people who was leading that. he has protested events that we have done. he protests did an event at glasgow sorry, at edinburgh university, not so long ago. he shouts abuse . you know, he just he was shouting fyou at women in the shouting f you at women in the line. he the university. i remember he was shouting ages comments. he was saying you all smell you know, he's he's childish and stupid and offensive of um an and he then went on because he'd been kind of caught out because people came back and said but actually this conference is about a very broad range of topics. what issue do you have with some of the organisations? and they were cited at him who were there , who cited at him who were there, who he would probably pretend he

supports. he said , oh no, supports. he said, oh no, i wasn't shouting at them, i was just shouting at the bigots . just shouting at the bigots. >> well, i mean, that's interesting, isn't it, being there in a queue. >> know which one of them is being abused. when blake with a microphone is yelling at them? >> i mean, this kind of thing suggests misogyny still suggests that misogyny is still very doesn't very much a problem, doesn't it? and that's of reasons and that's one of the reasons why conference so needed. why the conference is so needed. yeah absolutely. >> but, you know, to me, the thing that was i think the most shocking because i expected idiots like that to do this because they're stupid and they don't know what they're about. but there were two glasgow counsellors standing next to him now one of them is trans, um, and was quoted in the press as saying, well , i want this saying, well, i want this conference to go, but it was the language of abusers really , i language of abusers really, i want this to happen, but i want them to do it my way , right? and them to do it my way, right? and then i'll let them . so that was, then i'll let them. so that was, that was one thing. but then there was a woman who has said

she wants to make glasgow the feminist city . she's sits as the feminist city. she's sits as the chair of the partnership glasgow violence against women . um, and violence against women. um, and she was outside protesting when she was outside protesting when she could have been inside engaging and that was to me, that was the most awful thing. and i mentioned in my speech this morning the fact that these councillors have been there and a woman came up to me aftennards and she was really upset because she'd been working with this council this councillor she'd been working with this coursaid this councillor she'd been working with this coursaid , this councillor she'd been working with this coursaid , i this councillor she'd been working with this coursaid , i careis councillor she'd been working with this coursaid , i care about1cillor she'd been working with this coursaid , i care about issues, had said, i care about issues, about violence against women. yeah and she was, she was absolutely devastated to hear that she, she just had taken this knee jerk reaction. she's you know, she's an elected representative. she should not have been doing that. this is an amazing event and she should have been there engaging. >> absolutely . so i mean, there >> absolutely. so i mean, there needs to be more dialogue effectively is the message of this story. susan smith, thanks so much forjoining me tonight. so much for joining me tonight. really appreciate it . so that's

really appreciate it. so that's the end of the first hour on free speech nation. but please don't go anywhere because there's to come there's a lot more to come between now and 9:00. don't leave .

>> there's plenty more still to come on free speech nation this week, including more questions from our wonderful audience. but let's a news update first let's get a news update first from polly middlehurst. >> andrew, thank you. will the top story today is that the us secretary of state, antony blinken, has been underlining four key objectives. the us is sticking to as he continues his round of shuttle diplomacy in the middle east. he repeated the us's position that it stands by israel as well. it's expressed the hope that the conflict would not spill over into any other parts of the region. he also said the us is working to affect

the release of israeli hostages taken by hamas , as well as taken by hamas, as well as ensuring that the humanitarian crisis in gaza does not worsen. he's going to return to israel on monday as the country prepares for a ground assault on the gaza strip. israeli troops massing now on the border and the prime minister benjamin netanyahu, vowing to demolish hamas. well, today the european union has backed israel's right to defend itself as long as that's in line with humanitarian and international law . and as and international law. and as the news came through from the white house, that water had been turned back on in southern gaza , turned back on in southern gaza, anthony blinken stressed the us has continued support for israel. actually doing including the deployment of these aircraft carrier battle groups is again not to provoke anyone but to send a very clear message of deterrence that no one should do anything that widens this conflict in any way or that furthers aggression against

israel from any other direction . israel from any other direction. >> well , the prime minister and >> well, the prime minister and king abdullah of jordan have spoken about the diplomatic efforts to prevent further escalation in the wider middle east. >> rishi sunak welcoming king abdullah to downing street today. the leaders also agreeing on the importance of taking measures to protect civilians in gaza in including british and jordanian citizens , caught up in jordanian citizens, caught up in the violence. this comes after a further round of crisis talks by world leaders with others as they try to inject diplomacy into the conflict between israel and hamas . now, for government and hamas. now, for government flights carrying britain's did leave israel today . two more leave israel today. two more expected to leave this evening. the foreign office is telling british nationals in gaza to be prepared. get ready in case the rafah border crossing with egypt in the south is opened. it's currently the only route out of the territory the foreign secretary james cleverly telling gb news the uk government is doing everything it to can get

british people trapped in gaza safe passage out and hundreds of people gathered at a vigil in central london to commemorate israeli victims of the hamas terror attack . many were draped terror attack. many were draped in israeli flags, holding posters saying bring them home and handing out flyers featuring names and faces of those taken hostage by hamas. strong police presence patrolled the event, which took place in parliament square in london and away from the israeli hamas conflict. sports england are through to the last four of the rugby world cup after a 3024 victory over fiji in their quarterfinal in marseilles . steve borthwick's marseilles. steve borthwick's men will now face france or south africa in the tournament semi—finals. that means england are into the semis for the second world cup in a row . you second world cup in a row. you with news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. this is

britain's news channel . britain's news channel. >> welcome back to free speech nation. with me, andrew doyle. let's get some more questions. our first question is from our email account. this came in from sarah. and sarah has said, why has a man been named woman of the year? okay this is attitude magazine. attitude magazine is a gay magazine, very long standing . they've named dylan mulvaney as woman of the year. now, dylan mulvaney, of course, is the tiktok star who now identifies as female . attitude magazine has as female. attitude magazine has never had a woman of the year award in its 30 year history. suddenly, they decided to have one.the suddenly, they decided to have one. the first time they do it, they get it wrong. >> well, patently wrong , haven't they? >> yeah, i would have thought the one a sort of qualifying makes you question why they did it. >> yeah. and it makes you

question why anyone involves >> yeah. and it makes you questi mulvaney yone involves >> yeah. and it makes you questi mulvaney yone iroflves >> yeah. and it makes you questi mulvaneyyone irof their dylan mulvaney in any of their campaigns or anything that they're doing anymore. because she absolutely destroy she seems to absolutely destroy anything she touches. and quite frankly, there's 51% of planet earth that's female born. female. yeah and we seem to have ignored them. now for years. i don't understand . i don't don't understand. i don't understand what's so difficult about not choosing a biological man as woman of the year. but it's interesting because you referred to dylan mulvaney as she and i won't do that because i think dylan mulvaney is quite clearly the out of womanhood. >> it's a who's pretending, >> it's a man who's pretending, who's using all of the who's basically using all of the most regressive stereotypes of womanhood effectively mock womanhood to effectively mock women. i think that's what the joke is. think he's a troll joke is. i think he's a troll and i'd and they just they it is incredible, isn't it? >> it's like when you're a kid, i was when i was a kid i was surrounded by girls. the whole of my family girls and of my family were girls and i got play mommy and daddy's got to play mommy and daddy's quite a and was often the quite a lot and i was often the daddy sometimes i had be daddy and sometimes i had to be pretend. louis pretend. i sound like louis schaefer had

schaefer now. sometimes i had to pretend the mummy. and you pretend to be the mummy. and you know, when you're faking be know, when you're faking to be a woman child. yeah, that is woman as a child. yeah, that is what people do. yeah. and what these people do. yeah. and i've how going what these people do. yeah. and i'vspend how going what these people do. yeah. and i'vspend hnlives. going what these people do. yeah. and i'vspend hnlives. yeahjoing to spend their lives. yeah i mean, kind of mean, that is kind of incredible, isn't it? >> dylan mulvaney just >> like dylan mulvaney just embracing these. i've >> like dylan mulvaney just embrsome these. i've >> like dylan mulvaney just embrsome of these. i've >> like dylan mulvaney just embrsome of ivideos 've >> like dylan mulvaney just embrsome of ivideos where >> like dylan mulvaney just emb like,e of ivideos where >> like dylan mulvaney just emb like, i'm ivideos where >> like dylan mulvaney just emb like, i'm a ivideos where >> like dylan mulvaney just emb like, i'm a womans where >> like dylan mulvaney just emb like, i'm a womans whnand he's like, i'm a woman now and he's like, i'm a woman now and he's of around and sort of he's sort of around and sort of falling ditzy way falling over in a ditzy way because that's what all women are yeah, well, a lot of are like. yeah, well, a lot of them are. i you'd say that. them are. i knew you'd say that. >> of are. some of >> a lot of them are. some of them be. some them them should be. some of them shouldn't mean, women of shouldn't be. i mean, women of the year, though. >> louis it's much. >> louis it's a bit much. >> louis it's a bit much. >> isn't a much. it's >> no, it isn't a bit much. it's a it's gay magazine. and gay a it's a gay magazine. and gay people want to people can do what they want to do and i wasn't do nowadays. and i wasn't suggesting they can't. >> i merely criticising the >> i was merely criticising the decision. mean, first all, >> but i mean, first of all, it's number one. here is the problem. the problem is, is the similarity in the in the type. there's a word for it. i don't know what the type is. genotype phenotype, but the phenotype of the male female, they're so similar that it's for easy a man like me can get confused . and like me can get confused. and you i think would you see, i think you would be confused saw dylan

confused if you saw dylan mulvaney. fair she's mulvaney. fair enough. she's he has beautiful. and has become very beautiful. and in a way, he's more feminine. and maybe what he's doing is what they want this. what men want. they want this. this what a man wants . and if this is what a man wants. and if this is what a man wants , well, this is what a man wants, well, that's the point there, isn't it? is the woman of the year, it? he is the woman of the year, but he's not the point that women are sort of a bit sick of men what they want. women are sort of a bit sick of me like, what they want. women are sort of a bit sick of me like, you what they want. women are sort of a bit sick of me like, you know, .hey want. women are sort of a bit sick of me like, you know, .hey wa the >> like, you know, this is the thing. like, know, if you're thing. like, you know, if you're going to have a woman of the year award. yeah. at give year award. yeah. at least give it woman. it to a woman. >> got news you, >> i've got bad news for you, aiden are not getting what aiden men are not getting what they i know think they want. i know you think that men they want, men are getting what they want, but with women, we're not getting. >> i don't think you can divide humanity men and women in humanity into men and women in these homogenous blocs. then i get it. get upset about it. >> just doing that. >> you're just doing that. >> you're just doing that. >> upset, criticised? >> no. but you're saying he should. should be should. it should really be a woman. you going to woman. what are you going to check woman's genitalia woman. what are you going to ch something?woman's genitalia woman. what are you going to ch something? wom because italia or something? just because we. >> no, i'm just saying like if someone you a award the someone gave you a award for the most woman, i most muscular black woman, i would probably say, yeah, i think wrong . think that's probably wrong. >> know what? >> but you know what? >> but you know what? >> would let you the >> but i would let you get the award i'm not. award right. i'm not i'm not. >> have to what each

>> you have to decide what each of those terms what does of those terms mean. what does it be muscular? what it mean to be muscular? what does to be black? does it mean to be to be black? what mean a woman? what does it mean to be a woman? i we need you know what it i think we need you know what it is. i agree with you the whole time is ridiculous. time is totally ridiculous. right? it's right? of course it's ridiculous. ridiculous. right? of course it's ridi it'snus. ridiculous. right? of course it's ridi it's just ridiculous. right? of course it's ridi it's just daft. diculous. >> it's just daft. >> it's just daft. >> have a bit. know >> but have a bit. you know what? i'm going associate what? i'm going to associate whatever i do next is going to be with mulvaney the title. >> oh, you know what? if do >> oh, you know what? if you do it a huge i mean, i'm it will be a huge i mean, i'm going to change my name to dylan mulvaney. >> schaefer, and i'll more >> schaefer, and i'll get more twitter followers. >> schaefer, and i'll get more twi oh, followers. >> schaefer, and i'll get more twi oh, iyllowers. >> schaefer, and i'll get more twi oh, i actually you will >> schaefer, and i'll get more twithis.| actually you will >> schaefer, and i'll get more twithis.| actuii ly you will >> schaefer, and i'll get more twithis.| actuii mean, you will >> schaefer, and i'll get more twithis.| actuii mean, you know, do this. louis i mean, you know, it sounds flippant, but i believe through with believe you will go through with it. question it. right. we've got a question now andy, hello. now from andy. andy, hello. >> hi. does let me ask following the recent vote in no vote in australia. yes. is it fair to say that the nation is still a long way away from any sense of reality , equality? i'm sorry? reality, equality? i'm sorry? well it's interesting. >> so a lot of people might not know about this, andy. so the australians, they had a referendum and this was to do with what they call the voice referendum and what it would have done effectively . yes, vote

have done effectively. yes, vote would created an advisory would have created an advisory sort of lobbying rep representation of indigenous people in government . and the people in government. and the basically australia said no to that. basically australia said no to that . but is basically australia said no to that. but is that about equality or is about democracy? andy see, this is the question i'm interested in insofar as what you that case is having you risk in that case is having unelected people all having a say in governance . yes. so say in governance. yes. so that's actually a democratic issue, isn't it, paul it is. >> and australia do a lot of referendum and they do so in a way that enables the result to stand on its own two feet. there are six states, yeah . provinces are six states, yeah. provinces or whatever, other states out there, other states. and you have to, you have to achieve four yeses to get a yes or four nos to get nana or whatever it might be. and i knew straight away just the exit polling away just from the exit polling that they weren't going that that they weren't going to get it. >> but all of these sort of >> but but all of these sort of politicians the class it's politicians the media class it's a brexit they a bit like brexit in that they were yes . yes. were all saying vote yes. yes. and they win. in other and they didn't win. in other words said, we don't words, the demos said, we don't want do this sort of racially want to do this sort of racially divided. no. and they've made

it. >> they've made it a question of race. it's not question of race. and it's not a question of race. and it's not a question of race. you can take race out of this. course, the aboriginal this. of course, the aboriginal people different race people are of a different race to people have to to the people that have come to australia were australia since they were there. however you know why would it be right to separate a group of people and then for every single decision you had to make and you know how difficult it is to make decision by committee and then go and what do you think? >> well, that was the concern. louis a lot of people louis is that a lot of people were what does as were saying what this does as a society is it divides us even more into two classes of citizens based along racial lines. though is lines. so even though it is ostensibly thing , ostensibly a progressive thing, it actually does the opposite. do you that's right? it actually does the opposite. do yes, that's right? it actually does the opposite. do yes, that'shat's right? it actually does the opposite. do yes, that's true, right? it actually does the opposite. do yes, that's true, because you >> yes, that's true, because you have to remember australian , the have to remember australian, the supposedly immigrant australians, people who moved to australia, white people, whatever country they're from, are different than the are so different than the aboriginal australians in temperament, more different than any i think any two ethnic groups , more different than, groups, more different than, say, the english people when they moved to america versus the

indians who were the native americans i know living. yes, yes, yes. that they're so different. and fact is, is different. and the fact is, is there's no such thing. the aboriginal people have lived in australia as long as the quote unquote immigrant people have lived. >> well, they they were there before. >> no, they weren't there before the, the people who were living there who are who was an aborigines , they were living aborigines, they were living there for 20, 30, 50 years in there for 20, 30, 50 years in the day that they were born, which is the same length of time that i see what you're saying. >> i see what you're saying is suddenly some kind suddenly to give them some kind of rights for people suddenly to give them some kind of they rights for people suddenly to give them some kind of they don't|ts for people suddenly to give them some kind of they don't know people suddenly to give them some kind of they don't know and jle suddenly to give them some kind of they don't know and they who they don't know and they don't and happened in don't remember and happened in the think. >> i think. >> i think. >> it's interesting, isn't >> well, it's interesting, isn't it? actually some it? because actually some aboriginal they aboriginal people have said they didn't want this. no. and they were actually accused were they were actually accused of the of being effectively what the equivalent saying this, equivalent of for saying this, which a racist thing. which to me is a racist thing. if saying don't if they were saying we don't want divided as a society, want to be divided as a society, we this kind of we don't want this kind of paternalistic thing saying that we're forevermore. we're victims forevermore. but they sort of attacked they were sort of attacked by, well, white elites. yes. >> always the people who want

integration then fight against it. instance, you it. so, for instance, you imagine the situation. now, if i said to you we should have a referendum says white, referendum that says all white, nafive referendum that says all white, native should native british people should have an additional vote on all policy that goes through government, we'd all think that was nuts. it's the same thing whether or they like whether we like it or they like it they would say. it or not, they would say. >> because aboriginal >> but because aboriginal aboriginal individuals are a minority, not the same. >> well , have you seen london? >> well, have you seen london? >> well, have you seen london? >> i have seen london. i mean, right now. >> yeah. and you know, and there is argument now that white is an argument now that white people are becoming a minority in over in london and they will do over the next couple decades. the next couple of decades. >> say you can say >> can i say you can say whatever you want. paul is totally right. if reverse totally right. if you reverse it, you're saying always it, you're saying he's always wrong. always wrong. except wrong. he's always wrong. except for now he's shocking me. is it's . is it true? you just it's true. is it true? you just reverse it and say and say that engush reverse it and say and say that english people have greater english people have a greater vote who comes to vote than anybody who comes to the recently as a the country recently as a principle of democracy. >> just be person, >> it should just be one person, one irrespective one vote. yeah irrespective of who they are. >> that's exactly it. >> that's exactly it. >> so that's how that's the solution, isn't it?

>> would thought >> right. i would have thought so. anyway next question. this has from twitter always has come in from twitter always makes nervous, but this makes me a bit nervous, but this is from june. june says makes me a bit nervous, but this is kevin from june. june says makes me a bit nervous, but this is kevin spacey ne. june says makes me a bit nervous, but this is kevin spacey been ne says makes me a bit nervous, but this is kevin spacey been cancelled has kevin spacey been cancelled again is interesting . again? now, this is interesting. so there was a world premiere of kevin spacey's first film since his acquittal . and this is a his acquittal. and this is a it's been scrapped by a west end cinema. the cinema actually put a statement saying it was a statement out saying it was horrified associated with horrified to be associated with the but spacey was the actor. but kevin spacey was found not guilty. right does due process not count anymore? is it just does the accusation stay with you forever more? is that what we're saying now? >> yes, it does. but that's historically always been that way. isn't it isn't a way. and it isn't it isn't a cancel question , is it? they cancel question, is it? they don't want associate with don't want to associate with kevin whether the kevin spacey whether he won the case them decide. case or not. let them decide. you know, there's libertarian ideas are part of the ideas which are part of the whole free speech thing. yes. >> and you believe that? >> and you believe that? >> it's a private >> and i believe it's a private business if they don't want to have there. have kevin spacey there. i personally kevin spacey. personally like kevin spacey. everybody kevin everybody knew about kevin spacey. been found spacey. well, he's been found not that's the point, isn't it? >> that's the point, isn't it? i mean, aukus of mean, shouldn't we aukus of guilty don't know if he's

>> i think i don't know if he's guilty. don't think he's guilty. i don't think he's guilty. >> he's found not guilty. guilty. >> that's found not guilty. guilty. >> that's a found not guilty. guilty. >> that's a matteri not guilty. guilty. >> that's a matter 0th guilty. guilty. >> that's a matter of notjilty. >> that's a matter of not guilty. a people have guilty. but a lot of people have been found innocent and then they've then. then they've gotten away. then. then but but judge. but but still. but we can judge. but even your even if you take your libertarian say they libertarian views and say they have not to screen it have the right not to screen it in a free speech society, we have a right criticise have a right to criticise it. >> and that's >> right? yeah and that's potentially what we're doing now. you think? now. paul what do you think? >> yeah. i actually agree >> yeah. well i actually agree with largely, which is with louis largely, which is something that makes feel something that makes me feel a little however little bit unwell. yes. however it's, are, it's, you know, they are, they're there is this they're is this there is this argument are an argument that they are an independent they independent business and they should to make their own should be able to make their own decisions. however their decisions. however their decisions have been on decisions have been made on something accused something that he was accused of, been acquitted of. something that he was accused of, this been acquitted of. something that he was accused of, this brings een acquitted of. something that he was accused of, this brings usi acquitted of. something that he was accused of, this brings us right|itted of. something that he was accused of, this brings us right back of. something that he was accused of, this brings us right back to so this brings us right back to the beginning of the the very beginning of the process where somebody can accuse anybody and say it's them irrespective of proof. it can go all the way to court, still be found not guilty. and you are just tarnished with that brush for the rest of your career. yeah. so that very nub of yeah. so that is the very nub of cancellation. yeah. so i think i don't think that every theatre in the world should have kevin spacey, but they can't kick him out the basis that he's

out on the basis that he's whatever they're accused of. they have done that. >> but anyway. okay, let's >> but anyway. okay, well, let's move a question. this move on now to a question. this has emailed jason and has been emailed in by jason and jason says, will i take jobs away from teachers ? as you might away from teachers? as you might have seen this, this week, there was a story about a prep school that appointed an ai robot as a principal head teacher. i'm not joking. it's a school called cottesmore school, which is a boarding school in west sussex. and it basically worked with this developer to create this this ai developer to create this robot has a name. the robot. the robot has a name. the robot. the robot has a name. the robot abigail bailey. robot. the robot has a name. the robot abigailabigail bailey. robot. the robot has a name. the robot abigail there.l bailey. robot. the robot has a name. the robot abigail there. ibailey. robot. the robot has a name. the robot abigail there. i mean, there's abigail there. i mean, that's chilling because that looks like a real person to me. but robot, apparently. but that's a robot, apparently. and is to support the and the role is to support the school's headmaster to get advice and consultation. and i mean , i look, i know you're to mean, i look, i know you're to going accuse me of being a luddite, lewis, but i find that kind of thing a bit scary. >> i don't find it scary. no no, i don't find it scary. >> it's terrifying. >> it's terrifying. >> yes. because every i remember when i was in high school and there was the principal and the principal probably the principal was the probably the

same school , like same in every school, like a robot no, wasn't . robot anyway. no, he wasn't. well, he was of like a well, he was kind of like a robot. was super, super robot. he was super, super friendly and super nice. and then he the assistant then he hired the assistant principal, helm, he was principal, mr helm, and he was totally nasty. and the assistant principal was like a robot. he was like, his job was just to be nasty to people and to be the enforcer. while principal enforcer. while the principal everybody what this is. so everybody knows what this is. so in a way, is this is brilliant. >> these robots are to going i mean, i don't trust them, right? i don't trust robots. of i don't trust robots. first of all, be my prejudice, all, this might be my prejudice, lewis, but i've too many lewis, but i've seen too many sci know. i know sci fi films. i know. i know what want. yeah they're not what they want. yeah they're not going to educate that's going to educate you. that's like saying you're like saying, i puppet. like saying you're like saying, i don't puppet. like saying you're like saying, i don't trust puppet. like saying you're like saying, i don't trust theypet. like saying you're like saying, i don't trust the puppet . >> i don't trust the puppet. >> i don't trust the puppet. >> don't trust puppets. i >> yes, i don't trust puppets. i don't that they freak me out. >> but yeah . >> but yeah. >> but yeah. >> have you seen that film magic with anthony hopkins? >> very well. >> yes, very well. >> yes, very well. >> there we have seen >> there we go. have you seen the films? >> there we go. have you seen the yes, films? >> there we go. have you seen the yes, they're is? >> there we go. have you seen the yes, they're very scary. >> yes, they're very scary. >> yes, they're very scary. >> let's not talk about andrew is it's real. >> it's not real. >> it's not real. >> it's not real. >> say it's not real. >> say it's not real. >> so he's. i erg is real. >> so he's. i erg is real. >> ai is happening, paul. it is. and not mongering , but and i'm not fear mongering, but they're going to all. they're going to kill us all.

>> are. >> of course they are. >> of course they are. >> by way, there are >> by the way, there are versions of and we're at versions of ai and we're at versions of ai and we're at version chatgpt is at version four talking four and they're talking about version which version 4.5 coming out, which tells away that tells you straight away that two, three and four weren't good enough. therefore, got two, three and four weren't good e|principal therefore, got two, three and four weren't good e|principal theratnre, got two, three and four weren't good e|principal therat a, got two, three and four weren't good e|principal therat a boarding ot school. >> yeah. yeah >> yeah. yeah >> who would normally get >> okay. who would normally get paid the order of £100,000 a paid in the order of £100,000 a year chat gpt is about a five or a week. >> so there we go. there's the other issue. taking jobs other issue. it's taking jobs from beings, who from human beings, people who actually robots actually need the money. robots don't need money. >> don't money. that >> robots don't need money. that should that'll on should be on our that'll be on our l, our placards when you and i, because i'm you completely because i'm with you completely on this. should be scared of on this. we should be scared of puppets should puppets and we definitely should be ai . yeah, we should be scared of ai. yeah, we should be. that is terrifying. louis and can remember and the fact you can remember high is testament to your high school is testament to your memory, right? high school is testament to your me we're right? high school is testament to your me we're going to question >> we're going to get a question now >> we're going to get a question nothere is michael? hi, >> where is michael? hi, michael. hi. >> do you think jeremy corbyn should of london? >> okay. jeremy corbyn has suggested that he might run for london mayor he apparently he told party guests , you're told some party guests, you're going be me around. going to be seeing me around. and that sounds like a threat to me. but he was me. absolutely. but he was banned from standing a labour

banned from standing as a labour mp. . this birthday mp. he was. this was a birthday party. a diane abbott's party. it was a diane abbott's birthday this was the birthday party. so this was the statement he made. do you think do you think he's referring to that? because it's an implication, isn't it? it's not. >> might he might just be >> he might he mightjust be playing. but face it, playing. but let's face it, anybody anybody be anybody could anybody can be london point, london mayor at this point, couldn't jeremy corbyn couldn't they, if jeremy corbyn comes might well just comes in, we might as well just knock door of broadmoor knock on the door of broadmoor and anyone available. >> but. >> but. >> well, a minute, michael, >> well, wait a minute, michael, do you want jeremy corbyn >> well, wait a minute, michael, do be you want jeremy corbyn >> well, wait a minute, michael, do be mayorju want jeremy corbyn >> well, wait a minute, michael, do be mayor not ant jeremy corbyn >> well, wait a minute, michael, do be mayor not really. my corbyn >> well, wait a minute, michael, do be mayor not really. not corbyn to be mayor not really. not really. i mean, but this is the thing. i think, like sadiq khan has criticism. you has had a lot of criticism. you know, looks like know, i mean, but it looks like you have to be you don't have to be particularly at the to particularly good at the job to stay the job. stay in the job. >> no, it's a popularity contest. >> exactly. yeah, exactly. contest. >> and, :ly. yeah, exactly. contest. >> and, :ly. yknow, xactly. contest. >> and, :ly. yknow, in:tly. contest. >> and, :ly. yknow, in all truth, >> and, you know, in all truth, i could quite easily see someone like mayor like corbyn being london mayor and labour party and sadiq and the labour party will be worried about that if that's the case, because he will garner lot, of votes. garner a lot, a lot of votes. >> running as an independent >> so running as an independent for sure, because you know , you for sure, because you know, you think could win ? think he could win? >> i do believe i do believe that the people of london would like to see him as mayor. that the people of london would likewhatle him as mayor. that the people of london would likewhat doiim as mayor. that the people of london would likewhat do youis mayor. that the people of london would likewhat do you think,or.

that the people of london would likewhat do you think, louis? >> what do you think, louis? >> what do you think, louis? >> the mayor of london >> i think the mayor of london is it's the most important developer position in the world, is this as a city about building and the powers that be will not allow someone like jeremy corbyn who is but they can't control it because ultimately it's about the vote. yes, they can. they can control it. they've got the evening and all the evening standard and all the newspapers up on jeremy corbyn. >> who who are talking >> who who are you talking about? controlling it? >> thinking the. the >> i'm thinking the. the government. do you mean the business of london? business elite of london? >> they won't want corbyn. >> they won't want corbyn. >> but do they sidique >> but do they want sidique khan? yes they do. >> sadiq khan is the biggest developer in the past 100 know people he's failed on things people say he's failed on things like knife crime and those kind of yeah, but nobody but >> yeah, but nobody but rich people knife people don't care about knife crime. rich person gets >> no, no rich person gets knifed. rich people rich knifed. rich people care. rich people are they are we people care. are they are we being allowed to build a 30 story in elephant? story building in elephant? that's that's that's what they castle. that's what . are they what they care about. are they allowed to build more council houses they still doing houses or are they still doing that elephant and castle? that in elephant and castle? >> yeah. that in elephant and castle? >> they're yeah.

that in elephant and castle? >> they're totally. >> they're totally. >> what, louis? you >> you know what, louis? you should mayor. think. should run for mayor. i think. >> same way. i'm >> no, i'm the same way. i'm totally development, but that's. >> yeah, but you should run. i think it'd be fantastic. you should it on this should launch it on this channel. already channel. yeah you've already got your your catchphrases. your slogans, your catchphrases. you've mostly of women. following, mostly of women. >> know >> do you want to know something? know something? you want to know something? yeah >> like to say i'm going to. >> i'd like to say i'm going to. i'm for corbyn. i'm going to vote for corbyn. would confusing me by would you stop confusing me by talking to anyway? talking to me anyway? >> we've a question >> look, we've got a question now from andy. andy this now from andy. is andy oh, this is an email question. so andy said, are white male actors going out of fashion in the theatre ? yeah. so this was theatre? yeah. so this was a gregory doran, who was the former artistic director of the rsc, the royal shakespeare company. he says white male actors are struggling to find work. isn't really work. uh, this isn't really surprising, it? surprising, though, is it? because all productions now have to be colour—blind that is now sort an edict from on high. sort of an edict from on high. i actually graham linehan's actually read graham linehan's book his biography, book recently. his biography, and about tom and he was talking about tom stoppard, who'd written a play specifically jewish specifically about a jewish community, and the producer of the , n0, community, and the producer of the , no, he's the show had said, no, he's going to have black actors in it, likes it or not. it, whether he likes it or not. so even though it was completely

ahistorical and kind of ahistorical to do so and kind of detracted point the detracted from the point of the play, is happening now, play, this is now happening now, of course, i don't if of course, i don't care if a production wants to do a colour—blind it colour—blind thing, but when it kind and takes you kind of detracts and takes you out moment the out of the moment of what the piece is about, i think that is an issue. >> it is. >> yeah, it is. >> yeah, it is. >> you imagine as >> you imagine this as a pendulum. it's swung far. pendulum. it's swung very far. one it whenever one way now. it always whenever i see stories like this that always animal farm always invokes animal farm and communism in my head, because what happens is once they get a sense and that taste of power, they take it way beyond equality and they keep going until it benefits them, whoever them might be, whatever cultural background or whatever, whatever there might be inevitable because it is a pendulum. it's going have to come back at going to have to come back at some point. >> mean , what i my problem >> i mean, what i my problem with it is it's boring. >> effectively every >> i mean, effectively every theatre to now theatre production you go to now is a sermon dressed up as a play. it's basically pushing is a sermon dressed up as a plajequalityiically pushing is a sermon dressed up as a plajequality equity.|ushing is a sermon dressed up as a plajequality equity. sorryg edi equality equity. sorry diversity inclusion mantra , and diversity inclusion mantra, and it's just hectoring you, lecturing you. it's boring. >> yeah. so don't go to the theatre. don't go to the theatre and then do do our own private

little mean, what are little plays. i mean, what are you suggesting here, lewis? we got audience here. you got got an audience here. you got me. you. you're. well read. me. and you. you're. well read. you probably. me. and you. you're. well read. youokay,|bly. me. and you. you're. well read. you okay, well, write me. and you. you're. well read. youokay, well, write a >> okay, well, i'll write a script for next week, and we can. >> and we can do our own play. and will fight get and people will fight to get into it. i mean, you might be overestimate our skills. >> you're no thespian, you know , >> you're no thespian, you know, i'm a very good actor. >> i was in indiana jones. >> i was in indiana jones. >> you were? now, i haven't watched it yet. >> i was superman. i was >> i was in superman. i was leaning against a wall when the train coming the station. >> you did it very well. >> you did it very well. >> yes, i was unnoticeable. you're method you're a method actor. >> lot of >> you leant against a lot of walls prepare for the tories. walls to prepare for the tories. >> they're all the same. white people are doomed. we're doomed . people are doomed. we're doomed. we . we do. >> i wouldn't go that far. >> i wouldn't go that far. >> you don't think. see, that's the thing. you've got hope. i have no hope. >> okay, well, on that bleak note, we're going to take a break. but look, next on free speech nation, i'm to going be interviewing a former tavistock trust doctor. he's very concerned about the advice being given by the nhs to teenagers who are confused about their

genden who are confused about their gender. see you shortly

listening to gb news radio. welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle, a doctor who worked at the tavistock and portman foundation for years, has raised for 12 years, has raised concerns that the nhs is steering vulnerable young people towards organisations, which he describes as transient factories. >> dr. as hakim, who now works on harley street , says teenagers on harley street, says teenagers aged 17 and over are being guided towards the trans charity gendered intelligence, which he believes propagate contentious affirmation techniques that encourage the youngsters to think they are in the wrong body. dr. hakim has written a book about this subject called trans when transition is not the solution, and he joins me now. welcome to the show and thank you for bringing your dog buster, who is lying on the floor splayed at my feet . floor splayed at my feet. >> he's an avid gb news, is he? >> he's an avid gb news, is he? >> indeed? >> indeed? >> he'd be terribly upset if he didn't come. >> well, thank you for coming. and this is new book,

and this is your new book, d trans. i think a lot of people won't know what is meant by transition d transition and what is a d transition. >> d transitions are the people that not to know that you're not supposed to know about. the people who >> so they're the people who at one believed they one point believed that they should they should be another gender. they may have through social, may have gone through social, hormonal, physical, surgical changes to their body and at some point realised actually this wasn't the right thing to do. and so they revert back to their original gender. they transition. >> yes. now i've spoken to some people who fall into that category on this very show and the same story keeps coming out is that they feel like they were misinformed, were even misinformed, that they were even pressurised make these pressurised to make these irreversible changes their irreversible changes to their bodies and they regret it. i mean, it's a really kind of shocking situation, isn't it? >> terrible. and the for 12 >> it's terrible. and the for 12 years, i set up a specialist adult gender dysphoria psychotherapy service. the only one in the country, and that was at clinic. and at the portman clinic. and 26% of i saw were of the patients i saw were regrets. and they talked about this stage of gender dysphoria and then transgender euphoria and then transgender euphoria

and then transgender euphoria and then a bit later, transgender dysphoria . yeah. and transgender dysphoria. yeah. and there was a sense of inauthentic about themselves, which then lingered and what people don't talk about is actually trans isn't a thing. it's lots of things which are now unhealthy labelled as trans. in the book i talk about what on earth is this thing called trans? because nobody talks transvestites nobody talks about transvestites anymore. always been anymore. but there's always been far transvestites and but far more transvestites and but they're all trans now, so they're all trans now, so they're all trans now, so they're all the same. >> you're talking about the >> but you're talking about the gender affirmative model care gender affirmative model of care where comes along and where someone comes along and says and they can a child and says and they can be a child and say, you know, i that i'm say, you know, i feel that i'm in body or something in the wrong body or something like specialist like this. and the specialist that paediatrician is that the paediatrician is expected that expected to merely affirm that belief that they have about themselves. now activists say that you don't affirm that that if you don't affirm that belief, there's a high risk of suicide. >> so in the book i debunk loads of myths. so the myths are people are born in the wrong body, people are trans from birth. if you don't give a trans identifying person affirming

affirmatively interventions, they'll kill themselves . this is they'll kill themselves. this is all nonsense. there's no data suggest any of that. there's also this myth that only 1% of people who transition regret it. there are no follow up studies. you know, if you have an operation on your little finger, there'll evidence there'll be tonnes of evidence based but in based follow up studies. but in gender sex gender dysphoria, sex reassignment, there so reassignment, there isn't so there's hope if you give there's a hope that if you give someone they want, they'll someone what they want, they'll be with and my be happy with it. and my patients who are regretted and detransition owners, they all said the thing. they all said the same thing. they all said, well, when i decided that i be opposite sex, i should be the opposite sex, that everyone just affirmed me. and when they regretted it and they to their they went back to their families, employers , their families, their employers, their friends, were saying, friends, they were saying, why didn't ask why i was didn't you just ask me why i was thinking all thinking this? and they all said, being said, because we were being supportive. that's what we thought meant do . thought were meant to do. >> well, that raises another issue that labour issue is that the labour government that they government are saying that they want to ban what they call trans conversion by that want to ban what they call trans convetheyi by that want to ban what they call trans convetheyi is by that want to ban what they call trans convetheyi is they by that want to ban what they call trans convetheyi is they wantit want to ban what they call trans convetheyi is they want to what they mean is they want to ban this kind of therapeutic explorative. so, so the therapy i did was merely be a thoughtful

thinking with someone and a bit like with, you know, with my maths a—level, which i was terrible at, you know, you think in a series of, you terrible at, you know, you think in a series of , you know, in a series of, you know, sequential process and if you get a bit wrong, you might end up over here rather than over here. >> so what i do with my patients is they come with the solution of i should be the other sex. and all you try and do is say, okay, fine, how did you get there and where did you start with how did to that with how did you get to that conclusion? and what you'd hope with how did you get to that cothatsion? and what you'd hope with how did you get to that cothat ifwn? and what you'd hope with how did you get to that cothat if youind what you'd hope with how did you get to that cothat if you had vhat you'd hope with how did you get to that cothat if you had vh child,'d hope is that if you had a child, let's say five year old or an let's say a five year old or an eight year says, oh, eight year old who says, oh, i think i should be a girl or a boy, you'd hope is someone boy, what you'd hope is someone clinical say, really? how clinical would say, really? how did how did come to like the did how did you come to like the maths? did you come to that maths? how did you come to that conclusion? you're not. conclusion? not no, you're not. but how get there? help but how did you get there? help me understand how you got there and affirmation therapy doesn't do that. affirmation says to the young child, yes , you are born young child, yes, you are born the wrong body. and myself and a number of clinicians are a part of a group of canister clinical advisory network for and advisory network for sex and genden advisory network for sex and gender. we're really concerned

about this proactive nation model because affirmation sounds good, doesn't it? but but actually , it's grooming, it's actually, it's grooming, it's colluding with a false notion. and grooming a child into thinking that there's something we're not they're not. whereas we're not they're not. whereas we would say no body is wrong. you know, if you feel you don't fit in, help the child, fit in and understand that they can be whatever they want to be, don't convince them that their body is wrong and they need to mechanically, surgically, hormonally change body. hormonally change that body. >> have always been, >> but there have always been, haven't there, individuals who, for do in order for whatever reason, do in order to feel happy in society , do to feel happy in society, do need to either present as the opposite sex or to undertake surgery to reach that point? and there are many people who fall into that category who who say that are don't regret that they are they don't regret that. it was it actually that. and it was it was actually life saving do you life saving for them. do you accept that? >> know whether >> well, we don't know whether it's they might it's life saving. they might they regret it, but they might not regret it, but they might not regret it, but they was they don't know whether it was life saving. it's life saving. it's a it's a symptom thinking, believing that you're another sex symptom. you're another sex is a symptom. it's it's a bit it's not a condition. it's a bit like a cough. if have

like a cough. if you have a cough, you might have something stuck throat. you might cough, you might have something stucklung throat. you might cough, you might have something stucklung cancer, it. you might cough, you might have something stucklung cancer, it. ynmight ht have lung cancer, you might have a infection. the a chest infection. but the presenting a cough. presenting symptom is a cough. so patient has a presenting so if a patient has a presenting symptom of thinking they're the wrong sex, that's that's not necessarily condition. necessarily a condition. it's a symptom. want to symptom. and what you want to find out is how they got there, what we do know that there's what we do know is that there's massive conditions massive coexisting conditions like trauma , internalised like autism trauma, internalised homophobia. if i look at the sample of patients that i had, 100% of my males were on the spectrum and they had a sense of on the autistic spectrum or on the autistic spectrum. sorry. yeah. and they had a sense of something not being quite right with them, probably because they were and were a bit different and not fitting in in. and then they came the idea that maybe they came to the idea that maybe they were wrong sex. and ones were the wrong sex. and the ones who seemed to be happy with the outcome were the more autistic ones. right because they believed that i look like a believed that if i look like a woman and people call me, she and they must think and her, then they must think i'm a woman. >> so in that case, if we do, if we go along this line of what they call social transitioning.

so the idea that when a child says they're in the wrong body, the teachers and the peers all refer to as the other sex colluding. >> yes. >> yes. >> that can actually have an effect in terms of it's terrible because you're colluding with this notion. this false notion. >> so rather than saying to the child, there's nothing wrong >> so rather than saying to the child, the let'siothing wrong >> so rather than saying to the child, the let's trying wrong >> so rather than saying to the child, the let's try and wrong >> so rather than saying to the child, the let's try and work with you, let's try and work with you, let's try and work with and help happier with you and help you be happier and why you're and find out why you're so unhappy. because their unhappiness is lodged. they believe their body and their believe in their body and their sex. but actually, let's try and work out why they're so unhappy. it's symptom underlying it's a symptom of an underlying problem needs to looked it's a symptom of an underlying pn rather needs to looked it's a symptom of an underlying pn rather than 1eeds to looked it's a symptom of an underlying pn rather than presuming looked it's a symptom of an underlying pn rather than presuming that(ed at rather than presuming that the child knows everything about what is male or female. what it is to be male or female. children don't children are learning time. children don't children are lea why time. children don't children are lea why is time. children don't children are lea why is it time. children don't children are lea why is it you :ime. children don't children are lea why is it you think so many >> why is it you think so many of these ideas of what it means to male or are to be male or female are connected to old fashioned gendered why gendered stereotypes? what? why is thought we is that? because i thought we left all that behind. >> going back to autistic >> so. so going back to autistic thinking and autistic minds, they're and they're very rule based and i talk about people being gender confident and gender underconfident so the gender confident person can be subversive, can can say, well, if i don't fit in with whatever

framework you've got, then you know your framework is rubbish. whereas the gender under confident person says if i don't finish your framework, then i must be wrong and need to must be wrong and i need to change myself fit the change myself to fit in the framework and all these children who are suddenly saying that they're non—binary trans. they're non—binary and trans. in they're non—binary and trans. in the i talk about how the book i talk about how actually this is just a youth subculture. >> well, to what extent is it a social contagion? because used social contagion? because i used to and saw this to be a teacher and i saw this sudden explosion anorexia, sudden explosion of anorexia, that kind of thing, which appears to have subsided the appears to have subsided in the book, about how how rapid book, i talk about how how rapid onset gender is for draghi is a subculture here. >> and i liken it to goth mark five, which i'm well known for saying because when we were a teenager, you know, my friend jenny turned up with backcombed hair and purple lipstick, and she was the coolest thing ever. we said, are goth? and we said, what are you, goth? and there epidemic of goth in there was an epidemic of goth in this north wales private school. now, just the now, someone looking just the same to school. they'll same will go to school. they'll say, you? i'm say, what are you? i'm non—binary trans. whole non—binary trans. the whole school. like covid they school. it's not like covid they haven't caught it. it's just a cool subcultural thing to do,

which then mistake as having which we then mistake as having a medical condition. >> there also a darker >> and there is also a darker side know, at the side to this. you know, at the tavistock was a joke among tavistock there was a joke among staff that there would be staff that soon there would be no left hannah barnes no gay people left hannah barnes in has in her book on the tavistock has pointed out that between 80 and 90% adolescents sex 90% of adolescents were same sex attracted activists attracted a lot of gay activists are concerned that what's happening young gay happening here is that young gay people being effectively people are being effectively heterosexual ized by this. >> absolutely. because gay people , when they're growing up, people, when they're growing up, are more likely to be gender non—conforming. when was non—conforming. and when i was at tavistock, i said to one of the people working there in the kids department, i said, isn't what doing mad ? and what we're doing a bit mad? and the said to me , is it any the person said to me, is it any more mad than if they were to grow be gay? really grow up to be gay? really >> yeah. i mean, that's an openly homophobic comment. well yeah, they thought it was a bit psychotic to gay. psychotic to be gay. >> so. so. >> so. so. >> i mean , i've that >> so i mean, i've heard that there kind endemic there was a kind of endemic homophobia there. absolutely. and sometimes who and sometimes from parents who just happy the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa happy the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa gay happy the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa gay childippy the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa gay child and the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa gay child and the the idea and sometimes from parents who jusa gay child and the thing dea of a gay child and the thing that i refer to is the trans housing by proxy or the or the

trans sex eugenic parent. >> the parents who are bringing in five year olds and convinced the child should have been the other gender because they're gender rather gender non—conforming rather than well, it's than just saying, well, it's gender non—conforming . gender non—conforming. >> because we >> i mean, finally, because we don't have much time. but but i'm fascinated because i'm fascinated by this because i've always taken the liberal view that adult should be view that any adult should be able whatever want able to do whatever they want with whatever with their bodies, make whatever choices even if choices that they want, even if that ill informed. that choice is ill informed. right. stick that. right. i just stick by that. i think live like that think we have to live like that in a society. but it comes in a society. but when it comes to children, have reached to children, why have we reached this where sudden this point where all of a sudden we've decided children can we've decided that children can consent to puberty blockers to medication lead to medication that can lead to sterilisation can't medication that can lead to stera sation can't medication that can lead to stera tattoo, can't medication that can lead to stera tattoo, chemical can't get a tattoo, chemical castrations, you we and castrations, you we go and watch films alan turing and films about alan turing and saying how awful it is that we can castrated gay men in the war we exactly the same chemical we use exactly the same chemical castrations children, how we use exactly the same chemical casttheyis children, how we use exactly the same chemical castthey consent ldren, how we use exactly the same chemical castthey consent to 'en, how we use exactly the same chemical castthey consent to that how we use exactly the same chemical castthey consent to that ? how we use exactly the same chemical castthey consent to that ? howv can they consent to that? how have we that that's also have we decided that that's also a child? >> a child doesn't know that if they have puberty blockers, there's a very high chance they're never going to have a sexual. um, hopefully children haven't hadn't had sexual. >> they don't know it means.

>> how can they give informed consent to having that? >> how can they give informed conwellto having that? >> how can they give informed conwell ,) having that? >> how can they give informed conwell , dr. having that? >> how can they give informed conwell , dr. hakim,ing that? >> how can they give informed conwell , dr. hakim, thankit? >> how can they give informed conwell , dr. hakim, thank you so >> well, dr. hakim, thank you so much joining me. book is much forjoining me. the book is called trans. that's out now, i believe, this thanks for believe, this week. thanks for coming the show and thank coming on to the show and thank you bringing buster you to bring for bringing buster as it. >> oh, he loved it. >> oh, he loved it. >> you tell absolutely can >> you tell i absolutely can tell. dr. hakim, thank you very much. thank you . we did reach much. thank you. we did reach out to gendered intelligence . we out to gendered intelligence. we haven't heard back, but we have got a statement from them. they've said we're not a health care provider and don't treat any way we anyone . we provide any way we anyone. we provide youth groups, education and outreach and support of the trans community in the uk, the nhs does not refer anyone to us for assessment of any kind, any other kind of treatment . other kind of treatment. families support their families want to support their young and young young people and young people deserve supported. we'll deserve to be supported. we'll keep for our young keep standing up for our young people, carers people, parents and carers and families everyone families so that everyone can have they have the safety and care they deserve . and next up on free deserve. and next up on free speech nation authors greg lukianoff and ricky schlott will be here to tell us about their important new book. the council ling of the american mind. don't go anywhere .

radio. welcome back to free speech nation. >> as the spectre of cancel culture looms large over politics, the arts, learning institutions and virtually every other aspect of our lives, finding a way to protect freedom of expression becomes ever more important . a of expression becomes ever more important. a book out this month entitled the cancelling of the american mind how cancel culture undermines trust destroys institute actions and threatens us all out lines, the scale of the problem. but it also lays clear steps that we can take to try and eradicate the issue. the authors are greg luciano , a authors are greg luciano, a lawyer and president of the foundation for individual rights and expression and ricky schlott, a journalist, political commentator and co—host the commentator and co—host of the lost debate podcast. thank you both for joining tonight. both for joining me tonight. and, greg, to come to and, greg, i'm going to come to you cancel culture. a lot you first. cancel culture. a lot of people say it doesn't exist. what do you say to those people? >> i'd say i'm not even sure

they believe themselves when they believe themselves when they say that. i mean , i've been they say that. i mean, i've been working on campuses for 22 years and cancel culture. our definition of cancel culture is the uptick in campaigns to get people fired . de—platformed people fired. de—platformed expelled a two to lose their jobs since 2014 due to their opinion and due to their political opinion. do jokes due to their expression and the climate of fear that resulted from that . and what? and it was from that. and what? and it was really obvious even in 2015. but by 2017, 2020, the numbers we started seeing of professors getting targeted and losing their jobs is on getting targeted and losing theirjobs is on an unprecedented scale. i always give the example of during the red scare in the united states dunng red scare in the united states during mccarthyism . at the time during mccarthyism. at the time they were aware of about 63 professors losing their jobs for being communists , about 90 for being communists, about 90 for losing their opinion. overall that's generally rounded up to about 100. it's probably a little more than that, as the decades will reveal. but now we're talking about 200

professors fired . we're talking professors fired. we're talking about and back then, by the way, the law wasn't even clear that you couldn't fire professors for being communist. now, it really, really we're dealing really is. and we're dealing with something a historic with something on a historic scale. so people who say that cancel culture isn't even real, you just shouldn't take them seriously you just shouldn't take them seriricky, ask you about >> ricky, can i ask you about that specifically in higher education? why is the education? why why is it the case it has particularly case that it has particularly impacted universities , cities ? impacted universities, cities? >> i mean, one thing that i can say is someone who was just on a campus two years ago at nyu is that the culture of conformity is really just spiralling and self—perpetuate waiting in a way that i think is really concerning, particularly with young who are just young people who i find are just they want to fit in. i mean, frankly, when i went to nyu as a freshman, i was hiding jordan peterson and thomas peterson books and thomas notebooks because notebooks under my bed because god knew my god forbid, somebody knew my politics. and i think in a world like that, it's really easy to just bite your tongue and assume that everyone else disagrees with but it's really with you. but it's really a tyranny minority. and tyranny of the minority. and that's saw that's something that i saw firsthand. and that's part of

firsthand. and so that's part of my motivation in co—authoring this with greg is think this book with greg is i think that it's to fight and that it's time to fight back and actually up and be actually speak up and be authentic with our values, because soon as i spoke up at because as soon as i spoke up at nyu, then everyone around me, i found actually quietly found out actually quietly thought but thought the same thing, but would to say, hey, would come to me and say, hey, i agree with you entirely, but just anyone that we just don't tell anyone that we had conversation. had this conversation. >> is a fantastic >> it really is a fantastic book. more than that, book. but more than that, i think very, very important think it's very, very important that. you think, though that. greg, do you think, though , you can solve this , that you can solve this problem when so many people are frankly a little terrified of uttering what they believe is going to be the unfashionable view? well we spend about a third of the book talking about solutions. >> but one thing i want to be really clear on this is not easily solved like we've seen on campus, particularly with students coming out and saying that, you know, israel had it coming and hamas was right. and by the way, you know, if you fire those that's cancel fire those people, that's cancel culture, very clear culture, too. we're very clear about take on both the about that. we take on both the right, left, right, the right and the left, but also revealed a single

but it also revealed a single mindedness , a lack of viewpoint, mindedness, a lack of viewpoint, diversity on campus that is very true. and it's made all the worse by the fact that people think that they're to going lose their careers they if they their careers if they if they mildly disavow every mean, mild disagreement these days is, you know full well, andrew, like on particularly on elite campuses, is treated more like blasphemy or . so we spend about a or heresy. so we spend about a third of the book and we go all the way from parenting to corporations k through 12 corporations to k through 12 reform ed reform. and reform to higher ed reform. and we that some these we think that some of these changes have to be big and sustained . and unfortunately, we sustained. and unfortunately, we think it's probably going to get worse in 2024 before it gets better . better. >> well, that is bleak. >> well, that is bleak. >> ricky , can i ask you, there's >> ricky, can i ask you, there's one part of the book where you touch on the idea of comedy, of course. arts more course. and the arts more generally. course, course. and the arts more gesomething course, course. and the arts more gesomething that course, course. and the arts more gesomething that feel:ourse, is something that i feel particularly sensitive about because shocked , because i'm i'm shocked, frankly, that some of the people in who are meant to be in society who are meant to be the thinking of the most free thinking of individuals, artists, the individuals, the artists, the creatives , jesters, creatives, the jesters, that those are the ones that are falling into line with cancel culture. can tell us a

culture. can you tell us a little about that ? little bit about that? >> absolutely. throughout the book, we have different key case studies of different industries , studies of different industries, and most of them are knowledge producing institutions. but we did include comedy for a did also include comedy for a very important reason. and we believe provides believe that comedy provides a space where we can actually acknowledge some of the more touchy and sensitive topics in our culture and laugh about them and confront them in a non—threatening way. and unfortunately, we've seen that complete degrade, particularly on campuses as well. but also just out and about. i mean, i think the dave chappelle controversy at netflix is a perfect example of how campus sensitivity is really launched out into the real world, into corporate culture as well. but i would say that the comedy chapter was one where i had a unique amount of hope at the end after writing it . i think seeing after writing it. i think seeing andrew schulz land on his feet recently was pretty heartening and seeing netflix actually stands behind dave chappelle and change their entire corporate policy to basically say, we are to going say something that you

don't agree with as a company, and if that's a problem for you, this isn't the right company for you. it makes me think you. actually, it makes me think that comedy one the first that comedy is one of the first industry there there industry ways that there there is at least a little bit of a light at the end tunnel, light at the end of the tunnel, in opinion. light at the end of the tunnel, in well,inion. light at the end of the tunnel, in well, i ion. light at the end of the tunnel, in well, i certainly hope you're >> well, i certainly hope you're right. afraid all right. i'm afraid that's all we've for. but the book we've got time for. but the book is of the is called the cancelling of the american is absolutely american mind. it is absolutely fantastic, greg and ricky, thank you forjoining you so much forjoining me. thank on free thank you. and next up on free speech nation , sir keir starmer thank you. and next up on free speeciunexpected r keir starmer thank you. and next up on free speeciunexpected poise starmer thank you. and next up on free speeciunexpected poise underzr shows unexpected poise under pressure in social sensations. and paul cox and lewis schaffer will answer some of your unfiltered dilemmas. join us in a moment .

on mark dolan tonight. >> thousands of woke lefties cheering on the murder and mutilation of jewish people . so mutilation of jewish people. so much for be kind in my take at ten with the ukraine war and the middle east conflict spiking oil and gas prices, net zero is now never zero. also has the bbc

embarrassed britain with its israel stance. plus the papers and my top pundits . we're live and my top pundits. we're live from . nine from. nine >> welcome back to free speech nafion. >> welcome back to free speech nation . it's time for social nation. it's time for social sensations. that's the part of the show where we look at what has been going viral this week on social media. so first up, this video from the labour party conference week . conference earlier this week. leader starmer leader sir keir starmer was probably all be probably hoping we'd all be talking about his speech, but this protester had other ideas true democracy is citizen led politics needs an update. >> we demand a people's . house >> we demand a people's. house >> we demand a people's. house >> any thoughts, paul ? >> any thoughts, paul? >> any thoughts, paul? >> mental . i mean, >> any thoughts, paul? >> mental. i mean, i'll just take a very, very, very quick serious angle on this. how on earth did he get to the stage and still have 3 or 4 seconds with keir starmer ? with keir starmer? >> incredible. incredible. >> incredible. incredible. >> because, know, all

>> because, you know, in all seriousness, extremely seriousness, that's extremely dangerous . so even knew he dangerous. so they even knew he was or very was coming. yes. or they're very bad security. was coming. yes. or they're very bacyeah. curity. was coming. yes. or they're very bacyeah. ijrity. was coming. yes. or they're very bacyeah. i mean, i'm i'm >> yeah. i mean, i'm i'm suspecting the latter . there's suspecting the latter. there's no way should have got that no way he should have got that close. should they? >> looks that >> well, he looks like that malek. guy, malek . malek. what's that guy, malek. it singer who's the smger? singer? >> i have no idea who you're talking about. >> guy. the brother ? no, no. >> guy. the brother? no, no. >> guy. the brother? no, no. >> we could be doing this all night. a point about night. just make a point about the and point about the glitter. >> that british people, our >> is that british people, our people, we've lost all fear for we don't have a fear. we don't have a fear of anything that the other is doing. don't other side is doing. we don't have anything. so you have a fear of anything. so you think we should be tougher on protesters? >> we should we should be >> we should be we should be saying, god, we're saying, oh my god, we're under threat. country is going. and >> this country is going. and if we thinking this, we were thinking this, we wouldn't think, we're going wouldn't think, oh, we're going to and to have a meeting and everything's going be okay. to have a meeting and eveall|ing's going be okay. to have a meeting and eveall right,going be okay. to have a meeting and eveall right, let's be okay. to have a meeting and eveall right, let's do be okay. to have a meeting and eveall right, let's do yourkay. >> all right, let's do your doom. it is. there it is. doom. there it is. there it is. that's what i was for. that's what i was waiting for. and of him and we got it out of him eventually. now look, we're going have a look at your going to have a look at your unfiltered dilemmas. thank you so in so much for emailing in your problems one problems every week. this one comes from tammy , and tammy comes in from tammy, and tammy says, i have a friend who has a

child identifies as a cat. child who identifies as a cat. she's not feeling very well and can't get a doctor's appointment. should i tell her can't get a doctor's aptake.ment. should i tell her can't get a doctor's aptake thelt. should i tell her can't get a doctor's aptake the child juld i tell her can't get a doctor's aptake the child julthetell her can't get a doctor's aptake the child julthe vet her can't get a doctor's aptake the child julthe vet ?>r to take the child to the vet? well, i mean, that's one way of solving it . well, i mean, that's one way of solving it. this is the thing is that obviously when kids are saying this sort of thing, they are of seeking attention are sort of seeking attention or i think paul, they're taking the mick, aren't they? because they i think paul, they're taking the mick, that 't they? because they i think paul, they're taking the mick, that adults? because they i think paul, they're taking the mick, that adults? because along know that adults are going along with this kind. >> course, they are >> of course, what they need are parents weren't when parents that weren't born when we because we were born. andrew because parents born when we parents that were born when we were born, well, actually millennials, after millennials, which are after us, but seriously. but they're taking it seriously. yeah, way . hillary yeah, they are. no way. hillary and my mum and dad would and steve, my mum and dad would have taken any of that from me if was going to be if i said i was going to be a cat. they would have put me down. >> well, quite. >> well, quite. >> about louis? would >> well, quite. >> parentsyut louis? would >> well, quite. >> parents have louis? would >> well, quite. >> parents have takenis? would >> well, quite. >> parents have taken you? ould >> well, quite. >> parents have taken you? didi your parents have taken you? did they seriously? they take you seriously? >> i don't think that they did, which why turned the which is why i turned out the way they didn't pay any way i did. they didn't pay any attention to me, basically. i mean, put kid in a mean, yeah, put the kid in a cage take him to take. cage and take him to take. >> yeah, if he wants it. >> yeah, if he wants it. >> know what this is >> you know what this is sometimes you have to sometimes what you have to do, which i have three which i have. i have three children and you children and. and, and what you have do is you have to

have to do is you have to actually go through with it. you've to say, well, you've got to say, oh, well, we're going it to the vet. >> are you the sort parent >> are you the sort of parent that caught a child that when you caught a child smoking, would force them to smoking, you would force them to eat of cigarettes? eat the packet of cigarettes? >> no. i'm even before >> oh, no, no. i'm even before that, hit yeah well, that, i'd hit them. yeah well, i would to say that i not would like to say that i do not i do not endorse that whatsoever. >> i don't think should hit >> i don't think you should hit children. don't think you children. i also don't think you should them eat packets should force them to eat packets of cigarettes, you know. >> don't either. >> no, i don't either. >> no, i don't either. >> and you're parent, so, you >> and you're a parent, so, you know, wouldn't either. know, i wouldn't do either. >> i mean, you know, i talk about tough kids. am about being tough on kids. i am not daughter. she is not tough on my daughter. she is i'm around i'm completely wrapped around her do whatever her little finger. i do whatever she so she's she says. really? yeah. so she's not pretending to be a cat, though, i hasten to add. >> well, look, afraid >> okay, well, look, i'm afraid on note, is all we've on that note, that is all we've got time for. i'd love to talk about to louis about this more and but we don't have and more, but we don't have time. but do. thanks for time. but do. but thanks for joining for free. speech joining us for free. speech nation. was the when nation. this was the week when another another of another man won another woman of the award . kevin was the year award. kevin spacey was cancelled and a robot was cancelled again and a robot was appointed to be a part of the school's senior management team. thank you so much to my panel,

paul cox and dylan mulvaney, schaefer and to my guests this evening . and if you want to join evening. and if you want to join us live in the studio, be part of wonderful audience. just of our wonderful audience. just go audiences.com. stay go to w sro audiences.com. stay tuned for mark dolan tonight but don't forget headliners is on at 11:00 featuring lewis schaefer and paul cox that's your paper preview show thanks for joining us.see preview show thanks for joining us. see you next week . us. see you next week. >> hello there . good evening. >> hello there. good evening. >> hello there. good evening. >> i'm jonathan vautrey here with your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office. if you enjoyed the fine conditions we've had around this weekend holding on weekend, we will be holding on to the start of the weekend, we will be holding on to week the start of the weekend, we will be holding on to week ashe start of the weekend, we will be holding on to week as well. il'l'. of the weekend, we will be holding on to week as well. a of the weekend, we will be holding on to week as well. a lotthe weekend, we will be holding on to week as well. a lot of nice new week as well. a lot of nice conditions end evening conditions to end this evening with few scattered with as well. a few scattered showers for some coastal districts but most districts in the north, but most of us will be staying dry. some isolated and patches isolated mist and fog patches are possible overnight and temperatures be tumbling temperatures will be tumbling down a to low. single down a bit mid to low. single figures in our towns and cities. rural spots can expect a touch of particularly for of frost, particularly for central scotland down central southern scotland down into quite into northern england. so quite a to morning a chilly start to monday morning . there will also be a touch

more monday more cloud around on monday compared weekend. compared to the weekend. so i can't to wall can't promise the wall to wall sunshine some had sunshine that some of us had throughout saturday and sunday, but brightness still poking but some brightness still poking through. sunshine in there, through. hazy sunshine in there, showers feeding into the far southeast of england. few southeast of england. a few scattered across northern scotland temperatures scattered across northern scotlanc up temperatures scattered across northern scotlancup a temperatures scattered across northern scotlancup adegreezratures scattered across northern scotlanc up a degree ortures scattered across northern scotlanc up a degree or so 5s perhaps up by a degree or so compared to sunday, generally around 11 to 13 c. the winds, though, will be strengthening in the southwest, and that is due to this area of low pressure thatis to this area of low pressure that is gradually going to push its way northwards as we head towards increasing towards tuesday. so increasing we gales develop we starting to see gales develop for wales and southwest for parts of wales and southwest england as we head tuesday. england as we head into tuesday. most of us should dry most of us should stay dry dunng most of us should stay dry during daylight hours, though. just shield of cloud just this shield of cloud gradually pushing its way northward . so again, sunshine northward. so again, sunshine turning in place as this turning hazier in place as this rain, though, will eventually move its in as we head into move its way in as we head into the part of the week. the middle part of the week. potentially heavy and potentially heavy at times and some is possible. so some disruption is possible. so do up to with the do keep up to date with the forecast. bye

>> well, it's coming up to 9:00 on television on radio and onune on television on radio and online in the united kingdom and across the world. this is mark dolan tonight in my big opinion. why has the conflict in the middle east become left versus right? people are dying . what's right? people are dying. what's happening shouldn't become another chapter in the culture wars. after a number of their stars back, hamas and they refused to call them terrorists . refused to call them terrorists. we have the bbc let britain down over there. israel stance and it might take a ten. as the country's former top banker says , the push to decarbonise is getting too expensive. the crazy dream of net zero is running out of gas . to hours of big opinion, of gas. to hours of big opinion, big debate and plenty of entertainment along the way. in my big opinion, in two minutes time i will be calling out the moral blindness of the woke left. you won't want to miss it.

i'm not