by—election tonight on the show by—election bombshell is sunak snookered immigration without integration is bound to fail. >> why free speech is now under threat and why we should not be sending shoplifters to prison . sending shoplifters to prison. >> why greatest support for hamas shows that she doesn't care about the climate at all. it's 8 pm. and this is the. saturday five. >> welcome to the saturday five. come the next election. this is the only show which is going to have more presenters than there are tory mps. i'm joined by albion benjamin as but albion benjamin as usual, but emily weekend and so emily is off this weekend and so we're joined by the ever dynamic reem ibrahim from the institute of economic and the of economic affairs and the never dynamic leo kearse from the institute of winding up left wingers . you know the drill. by wingers. you know the drill. by now, each host gets 60s to outline their argument about a

chosen topic . then we're all chosen topic. then we're all piled in and eventually agree that benjamin is wrong. and of course we want to know your views on all the topics as well. get in touch by email and gbviews@gbnews.uk . com get in touch by email and gbviews@gbnews.uk . corn and don't gbviews@gbnews.uk. corn and don't forget your chance to flummox the five with two hours. again this week. so get your questions in now for the end of the show. nothing is off limits. everything from leo's dress sense to tory election prospects though both may be equally dire. but before we start tearing each other apart , it's your saturday other apart, it's your saturday night news with lisa hartle . night news with lisa hartle. >> i'm lisa hartle in the newsroom. the uk is calling on israel to show military restraint in its war with hamas . restraint in its war with hamas. addressing a peace summit in egypt, the foreign secretary said he's spoken to the israeli government about its duty to respect international law and the importance of preserving civilian lives . james cleverly civilian lives. james cleverly also told the conference that

efforts need to be made to prevent an escalation in violence. >> as we have a duty, a duty to work together to prevent instability from engulfing the region and claiming yet more lives . we must work together to lives. we must work together to prevent the tragic situation in gaza becoming a regional conflict, gaza becoming a regional conflict , because that gaza becoming a regional conflict, because that is exactly what hamas wants . the exactly what hamas wants. the trucks carrying humanitarian aid have now reached southern gaza . have now reached southern gaza. >> it's after the rafah crossing on the border with egypt was opened for the first time in two weeks. israel imposed a blockade preventing the delivery of food, water and fuel. after the hamas terror attack. meanwhile israel's prime minister has vowed to continue to fight until all hostages being held by hamas are freed . it's after two are freed. it's after two american citizens judith raanan and her 17 year old daughter natalie, were released

yesterday. hamas says the decision was made on humanitarian grounds. it's believed more than 200 people are still being held by the terrorist group pro—palestine minion. protests have been taking place in cities across the uk . they're calling for an the uk. they're calling for an end to the conflict in the middle east and demanding the government stop supporting israel's actions . police israel's actions. police estimate up to 100,000 people took part in a protest through central london in salford , a central london in salford, a group marched to the bbc's media city headquarters over the course narrations reporting of the israel hamas conflict and around 2000 people also took to the streets in belfast. rallies were also held in birmingham and cardiff . in other news, tributes cardiff. in other news, tributes are being paid to sir bobby charlton, who has died at the age of 86. he was a key member of england's world cup winning team in 1966 and a club legend at manchester united. his family said he passed peacefully in the

early hours of this morning. in a statement, united described sir bobby as one of the most beloved players in the history of the club. the prince of wales, who president of the fa, called him a true a true great, who will be remembered forever. the environment agency is warning floods are likely to continue near major rivers in england until tuesday . storm england until tuesday. storm babet is dumping heavy rain in parts of the east midlands and south yorkshire. nottingham nottinghamshire county council has declared a major incident with severe flooding warnings in derby. the city council says it's experiencing the highest recorded water levels of the river dennent, with roads flooded across the city. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's back to the . saturday five.

the. saturday five. >> she has lisa now folks, it's your saturday night and you're with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes. and when it's cold and wet outside, you really are best off settling for down the two hours and enjoying the next two hours and enjoying some heated debate from all of us. it's a hell of a lot cheaper than putting the heating on. now let's crack on with tonight's first topic. thousands of people took pro—palestine took part in a pro—palestine demonstration today . demonstration in london today. to the anger of many, it has to be said, just a couple of weeks after the sickening hamas assault on israel. but reem ibrahim says the right to free speech must not be unassailable. even if you don't agree with what they're saying, it's high time we live the dream. >> thank you, darren. now, i believe in the fundamental freedom of expression. i think that when we're looking at across the world in which countries have descended to authoritarianism, they tend to stop allowing freedom of expression. now i completely understand that many individuals are incredibly upset as a result

of various different protests . of various different protests. but this particular phrase that's been used time and time again as during these protests, palestine will be free. and this idea that actually it's from the river to the sea . now, this river to the sea. now, this particular quote has resulted in a lot of hate online. a lot of people saying that this particular phrase should actually be banned. many people that are usually on my side of the argument, many people that actually usually argue for free speech have now descended into arguing for the complete decimation of this kind of individual freedom. now, i would argue that i would like to see any individual that supports potentially proscribed terrorist organisations like hamas . i organisations like hamas. i would like to see them saying those things in open so that those things in the open so that we know where they are . we know where they are. ultimately, if we start to ban different phrases, if we start to tell people that it is illegal to say different things, they are going to continue to talk about these ideas underground and unchall

challenged. i think it's incredibly important that we allow the fundamental right of freedom of expression, whether we agree with those opinions or not. and i would like to see the right to protest be used across the board . now, the metropolitan the board. now, the metropolitan police have also put out a statement calling out for effectively the individuals that are going to those protests to not support that terrorist organisations . well, they have organisations. well, they have said, though, is that they do have the right to protest and they do have the right to call out for these particular phrases . now, this particular phrase from the river to the sea, palestine will be free can be interpreted in many, many different ways. but ultimately if we're going to be banning language, we're going to descend into a slippery slope of authoritarianism . so, leo, i'm authoritarianism. so, leo, i'm particularly interested in what your perspective might be on this. do you think that there should be a limit to free speech? >> well, of course there have to be limits to free speech. i mean, i'm a big advocate of free speech, but free speech can't be

absolute. you can't have jihadis on the streets of london calling for murder, calling for the genocide of jews and really saying having saying it really having an impact going out impact. people are going out there committing terrorist there and committing terrorist atrocities. a few atrocities. we saw just a few days in belgium days ago a guy in belgium driving around on his moped shouting allah akbar and then murdering swedish football fans. so this is this is real world stuff. this isn't some academic discussion. so obviously, we need to limit freedom of speech and i'm fine. you know, these people people can can have people these people can can have their and their their their rallies and their protests wave their isis protests and wave their isis flags, but it do it in a flags, but do it do it in a muslim. do it in the muslim world. do in the arab world. world. do it in the arab world. i i think it's terrible i think i think it's terrible that has been so soft that britain has been so soft and allowed completely alien culture that hate us and hate civilisation and want to destroy us to take root and fester and grow . grow. >> i mean, i would argue that it's not the culture that's doing that. it's actually there are a very small percentage of the population of these individuals that might be attending these protests that would hamas are would argue that hamas are a fantastic that are

fantastic organisation that are supporting the freedom of palestine. think we have palestine. now i think we have to it and say that's to call it out and say that's unequivocally wrong. and actually those actually many of those individuals would be would have their freedom of expression reduced. ultimately when reduced. but ultimately when we're arguing for free speech, it can't just be for ideas that we agree with. we have to do it. >> but this goes beyond an idea. this is incitement to violence. and that's a crime. and i can't believe the police are pussyfooting around and saying, oh, no, call to jihad can oh, no, the call to jihad can have meanings. have several meanings. well, none good. it's not none of them are good. it's not like jihad can sometimes mean a cup of tea. >> actually, i will say . and i >> actually, i will say. and i mean, somebody up mean, i'm somebody that grew up in sort of muslim family, mean, i'm somebody that grew up in sorhousehold. family, mean, i'm somebody that grew up in sor household. the ily, mean, i'm somebody that grew up in sor household. the word muslim household. the word jihad itself does not necessarily mean terrorism. it actually means my struggle. , that struggle. now, of course, that has occupied. hitler has been occupied. hitler >> yeah, hitler had this . >> yeah, hitler had this. >> yeah, hitler had this. >> well, indeed. now it has again been taken by various individuals and various different organisations have taken it to mean many things. i think investigations are perfectly reasonable into people that use phrase because of that use the phrase because of the way it's been defined. i

mean. albee what's your perspective? >> well, i think perspective >> well, i think my perspective is completely is i think it's completely inappropriate to be inappropriate for people to be shouting the chant from the river to the sea. palestine should be free. you know, i think most people interpret that as the israeli state should be wiped face of the world wiped off the face of the world because is what it because that is that is what it means. many people down. that's literally what it means. you listen to jews when you listen to jews to explain what it means . that what they say. and i. . that is what they say. and i. and i and i and i trust them when that is what they are saying. but what i will say is where i do agree with you is where i do agree with you is where people that are calling for the protests themselves to be banned. mean, that's be banned. i mean, that's complete nonsense. of course, you protests, you can't be banning protests, people for people protesting for the freedom or people freedom of palestine or people protesting because they think what going on in gaza and the what is going on in gaza and the humanitarian crisis there is unacceptable. unacceptable i >> reem i just want to test how far you'll go with this, because i think we've got a video show from london's tube today in which there was chant said, so which there was a chant said, so let's have a listen and watch that free palestine .

that free palestine. >> hope you will have a blessed day today and look after yourself that everybody . yourself that everybody. >> so this is interesting because what should he be sacked? so this is interesting. again, i do think i do think that it's inappropriate for a pubuc that it's inappropriate for a public servant, somebody that's being paid by taxpayer money to being paid by taxpayer money to be into political be entering into political discussions. i don't know if you guys saw on the video he used the to talk about the tannoy to talk about palestine being free again, that is an appropriate because it's a pubuc is an appropriate because it's a public sector figure, a public figure, a train driver to use utilising the power that he has on the train to advocate for something political. and i think that's wrong, especially when you think about the history of jews in trains. >> i think it's the worst place you can possibly it. you can possibly do it. >> well, i mean, benjamin, surely this is just for british jews. saying, i don't jews. they're saying, i don't think live sadiq khan's think i can live in sadiq khan's london anymore. >> i mean, look, think >> i mean, look, i think one random driver isn't random tube driver isn't reflective the or of reflective of the mayor or of the city. but look, you know, reem, i'm sure lots of people were cheering you in all

were cheering you on in that all of terrorists. i suspect of them terrorists. i suspect you what? it is incredibly you know what? it is incredibly naive for a protester in london was a terrorist . no, but the was a terrorist. no, but the people would supporting the people would be supporting the right to shout jihad people would be supporting the right to shoutjihad and ban right to shoutjihad and to ban the state of israel and to insult existence of jews. insult the existence of jews. those the people you're those are the people that you're supporting. and thing supporting. and the thing is, you to recognise that you don't seem to recognise that there form of there is no perfect form of freedom. there is no pure freedom. there is no pure freedom. you have to manage it. so the reason that somebody couldn't stand in the street and shout racist abuse at albee, that wouldn't be acceptable because that would take away his freedom to go about his life on a basic level. absolutely not. and that's these people i'm and that's what these people i'm speaking. what these speaking. that's what these people because they people are doing, because they are shouting means are shouting abuse. that means an just an average jewish person just trying their lives trying to go about their lives or an israeli person trying to go lives is go about their lives is threatened unable to feel threatened and unable to feel safe and is where safe. okay. and that is where the is. the line is. >> so talk about this >> so let's talk about this particular phraseology that i mentioned in in the introduction palestine will be free. and this idea that it's from the river to the sea and from the river to

the sea and from the river to the sea, we're talking about a geographic area. the palestine will free where that? will be free where are in that? is there application for is there an application for genocide or an advocation that remediation jewish. remediation of jewish. >> just think you're >> i just think you're incredibly you know, incredibly naive. you know, these jews these people, you're hate jews and you are defending their right to shout that on the streets of london. i think that's disgraceful. >> i know because arguing. >> i know because i'm arguing. >> i know because i'm arguing. >> you like someone from >> you sound like someone from novara iea. novara media, not the iea. >> believe freedom for >> i believe in freedom for everyone, just people. everyone, not just for people. >> no don't. there >> there are no you don't. there are limits to free speech. you must that there are must accept that there are limits free speech. we have limits to free speech. we have libel in this country. we libel laws in this country. we have anti—hate incitement laws in and it is right in this country. and it is right that they enforced, isn't it? >> i believe that every individual in country individual in this country has the to freedom of the right to freedom of expression, as are expression, so long as they are not inciting violence people. >> but that's exactly what these people doing. people are doing. >> they are not there is nothing in that phrase when they say that shouldn't exist, in that phrase when they say that they shouldn't exist, in that phrase when they say that they have.dn't exist, in that phrase when they say that they have when xist, in that phrase when they say that they have when they talk when they have when they talk about paragliders attacked when they have when they talk abojews ragliders attacked when they have when they talk abojews and ders attacked when they have when they talk abojews and they attacked when they have when they talk abojews and they celebrateked when they have when they talk abojews and they celebrate that the jews and they celebrate that those free speech saying the state you can be anti—zionist state of you can be anti—zionist and be anti—semitic. okay. state of you can be anti—zionist ancwe'rewe anti—semitic. okay. state of you can be anti—zionist ancwe're going —semitic. okay. state of you can be anti—zionist ancwe're going —thave:. okay. state of you can be anti—zionist ancwe're going —thave to )kay. state of you can be anti—zionist ancwe're going —thave to move >> we're going to have to move on now. it's been a very heated debate, it's been a very

debate, but it's been a very difficult rishi difficult week for rishi conservative this week. conservative party this week. and think darren grimes might and i think darren grimes might be an even more be making it an even more difficult them. is difficult week for them. it is high for prime time now. high time for prime time now. >> in the recent by elections of tamworth mid—bedfordshire tamworth and mid—bedfordshire for witnessed for the conservatives witnessed a staffordshire setback thanks to two thirds of their 2019 voters deciding to play truant in tamworth , labour secured in tamworth, labour secured a victory on a 35.87% turnout, with a mere 811 votes more than their previous outing in mid bedfordshire echoed this narrative with a dwindled turnout and labour celebrating despite bagging 156 fewer votes than in 2019. now, sir keir starmer, he's not exactly the pied piper, is he, yet tories are nowhere to be seen rallying behind a man. so power hungry that he twice champion jezza corbyn, a man with a soft spot for britain's foes . for all to for britain's foes. for all to thwart our brexit mandate. i remember the 2019 shift when my birthplace of consett swapped

its labour red for tory blue well had hope, right? we had so much promise, but alas, you fast fonnard to today as you shiver in your abode , eyeballin up your in your abode, eyeballin up your soaring energy bill, courtesy of theresa may and boris johnson. theresa may and boris johnson. there green escapades or their net stupid as i call it, and bolton seems somewhat futile for some people at home with the nhs and your dentist appointments rescheduled more than a footy match. identity politics devour and the nation and the unity of it. and i was sure being a hotspot for illegal migrants and those chanting sinister slogans in our cities, i understood . and in our cities, i understood. and your disillusionment and let's not overlook the tax fiasco. highest rates in decades with nary a clue on where it's all funnelled. yet here we are expected to march to the polls. it's a bleak forecast for the prime minister. if i was him, i'd be tempted to stay in the middle east. he doesn't shake off the timidity . the bold moves off the timidity. the bold moves we when he diluted boris

we saw when he diluted boris johnson's green zealotry or when he thwarted nikki sturgeon's perilous self gender laws . they perilous self gender laws. they need a comeback. that was good stuff with no luxury of time for dilly dally on a—level reforms or banning ciggies for kids. debate and so—called conversion therapy . these are all luxuries therapy. these are all luxuries we don't have. it's a snail's race when we need a sprint to salvage what's left of our great britain. the era of slow and steady is over and it's high time our leaders got the sodden memo. frankly now, benjamin buttennorth, that must be music to your ears. actually, you must agree with every word . agree with every word. >> i swear you get more geordie every week. that's right . look, every week. that's right. look, i mean, full credit to you. you know, you looked at the 2—2 of the three biggest swings from tory to labour in post—war britain and still managed to claim that it was a bad night for labour. well, the turnout was lower than most parties, that throw very good. but

that you throw very good. but look, you know, the fact is that labour's went up labour's vote went up significantly and both those significantly and both of those seats are not seats that the labour party needs to win. to put keir in downing put keir starmer in downing street. if you were to have an equal swing across the country, then seat with with then every seat with a seat with a tory majority of 15,000 would have to go labour mid beds had a 25,000 and tamworth was 21,000. so this says that the tories are leaving government, that they don't have a hope in hell. so actually i'm quite glad that you say things like that and that you dig your heels in and ignore reality because that just guarantees. keir starmer will be in 10. in number 10. >> leo, are you following sir >> so leo, are you following sir keir a sort of lamb keir starmer like a sort of lamb to the slaughter? >> people have described >> well, people have described it as he's trying to carry a ming without breaking ming vase without breaking it. you not to, you know, he's trying not to, not do anything radical, but not to do anything radical, but actually, what we sort of need from to know what he from him is to know what he stands for the moment. he stands for at the moment. he seems to you ask him what he stands for and he's like, leave it he goes and speaks it with me. he goes and speaks to focus groups and

to various focus groups and comes back and says, you know, i like whatever you and we like whatever you like. and we really know what are his really need to know what are his policies does he think? policies and what does he think? because the moment not because at the moment he's not going election. the going to win the election. the tories going to lose it. tories are going to lose it. >> so think his only >> so do you think his only policy right now is not being the conservative party? exactly policy right now is not being the can servative party? exactly policy right now is not being the can sejustive party? exactly policy right now is not being the can sejust say ’arty? exactly policy right now is not being the can sejust say that? exactly policy right now is not being the can sejust say that? exe often >> can i just say that you often get from people on the left get that from people on the left of the labour party who seem to think that anyone, i.e. jeremy corbyn, they corbyn, would win when they wouldn't three people wouldn't look, only three people have a general election have won a general election for the labour party happened the labour party only happened three starmer three times and keir starmer is on the fourth. so on course to be the fourth. so this that he's not really this idea that he's not really impressive, not really impressive, that he's not really changed anyone's mind is complete nonsense. because if it were easy labour win were that easy for labour to win elections, they have elections, they would have won more have more than they would have had more than they would have had more than they would have had more than three leaders do it. >> he should be. he should >> well, he should be. he should be making want to for be making me want to vote for him. and sure i'd want him. and i'm not sure i'd want the labour party. >> the interesting thing i'll be for the well, for the labour >> the interesting thing i'll be for thyou're for the labour >> the interesting thing i'll be for thyou're talking labour >> the interesting thing i'll be for thyou're talking l.little >> the interesting thing i'll be for about're talking l.little >> the interesting thing i'll be for about it�* talking l.little >> the interesting thing i'll be for about it later,1g l.little >> the interesting thing i'll be for about it later, so l.little >> the interesting thing i'll be for about it later, so l. don't bit about it later, so i don't want to spoil what you're going to say, you think the to say, but do you think the civil war within labour that's been promoted the press been promoted in the press recently lot of

recently where actually a lot of the vote are unhappy with the muslim vote are unhappy with its stance on israel, is this going problem for going to become a problem for the moving fonnard the labour party moving fonnard and to be and you're going to be addressing i think it's addressing look, i think it's already a problem for the labour party. we've already seen reports, not reports. we have seen councillors across seen muslim councillors across the country resigning because of keir position on on keir starmer's position on on israel palestine . but actually israel palestine. but actually with the cohort of people who he needs to win over at the next general election i.e red wall 2019 tory voters as his position on on the israel—palestine conflict is actually going to be quite helpful for that group of people who tend to be more pro israel. so that could actually be a net benefit for him. but when it comes to the conservatives, you know, as a conservative myself, been conservative myself, it's been a very week for us. very disappointing week for us. the not buying what the public are not buying what we're and quite frankly we're selling. and quite frankly , needs to get his , rishi sunak needs to get his act together, get the government's together government's act together and start the five start delivering on the five pledges that pledged for the pledges that we pledged for the next general election. at the moment, like any moment, it doesn't look like any of going to of those are going to be achieved. >> to say, i think >> i've got to say, i think benjamin is somewhat overexcited

by prospect these by by the prospect of these by elections, i do think that elections, as i do think that the conservative party, again, haven't of haven't had any kind of ideological direction. i also think, make a very think, darren, you make a very important point here that actually you know, even the actually, you know, even the guardian today guardian front page today admitted swings last admitted that these swings last night were not very big. they were primarily as a result of tory voters staying home rather than they were the second and third swing in post—war history. >> so what you want about so >> so what do you want about so the conservatives on the guardian front that even guardian front page that even admitted majorities admitted that the majorities were swing big. >> sorry, but the majority was very, very small. >> but that's because far fewer people voted. and always people voted. and that always happens exactly. people voted. and that always ha|:so 1s exactly. people voted. and that always ha|:so turnout actly. people voted. and that always ha|:so turnout was. low. tory >> so turnout was very low. tory voters home rather than voters stayed home rather than tory voting my tory voters voting labour is my point. ultimately the conservatives haven't able conservatives haven't been able to five to deliver on their five pledges. the highest pledges. we've got the highest tax burden since the second world we've huge world war. we've got huge amounts of illegal migrants enteringbasis for those kind of basis for those individuals to where they're going or the going to live or the infrastructure. ultimately going to live or the infrilabour|re. ultimately going to live or the infrilabour party ultimately going to live or the infri labour party haven't|tely going to live or the infri labour party haven't been the labour party haven't been able those voters to able to convince those voters to return to their party. >> i mean, you you're a policy wonk, not to sound offensive. do

you actually know what the labour party's policies are? well, i know as much as you do, darren, and i cannot tell you exactly what the what the labour party wants to do. >> what i will say is the labour party have won over on housing. they've promised to build, i think it was 1.5 million houses. the conservative party have failed on housing crisis and failed on the housing crisis and at we're hearing some kind at least we're hearing some kind of what i think is of direction on what i think is the largest political problem facing in this facing young people in this country facing young people in this couokey doke. right folks >> okey doke. right now, folks still tonight, leo is still to come tonight, leo is going to be assessing greta thunberg's latest antics, a glowing review incoming. i've no doubt. glowing review incoming. i've no doubt . and glowing review incoming. i've no doubt. and i'll will be pitching a national integration policy . a national integration policy. but next in the programme, experts are calling for shorter pnson experts are calling for shorter prison sentences to be axed in favour of community punishments. but who needs experts when you've got benjamin buttennorth ? you've got benjamin buttennorth? he'll be giving his verdict on those plans. you with the saturday five live on gb news as

radio. >> welcome back to the saturday five cheers for your company and for your emails about tonight's topics. sherry's written in and sherry made me want a glass of sherry. there's a clear difference between people protest and the human syrian crisis in gaza and actively supporting hamas . it's very supporting hamas. it's very dangerous to paint everyone out. marching in london today with the same brush . now malcolm says the same brush. now malcolm says free speech is okay, but watch out if people start. listen in. now, that's a good point, is it not? because if people start listening to some of the chants out there, then we're all up . i out there, then we're all up. i was going to say something quite a creek without a paddle. well indeed. >> but i think it's that earlier point right? the differences between support for hamas and support for freedom. >> so , susan, though, has >> so, susan, though, has written in and susan, you can

expect your fiver from benjamin in she says benjamin in the post. she says benjamin has answer to the free speech question is the sensible question is the most sensible thing he's ever said. and i don't usually agree with him. >> well, don't get used to it, but thank you, susan. >> your mum. >> your mum. >> exactly . >> yeah, exactly. >> yeah, exactly. >> it's she definitely wouldn't think i'd said something. >> right . >> said right. >> said right. >> folks, it's time for our next debate. up next, it is benjamin and he's to give us his and he's going to give us his verdict on plans to ditch shorter prison sentences . it's shorter prison sentences. it's time for benjamin's bugbear. >> yeah, that's right . time for benjamin's bugbear. >> yeah, that's right. i think it's time to abolish short pnson it's time to abolish short prison sentences. the kind of sentences there are a couple of months or even a couple of weeks . these are handed out to people who commit crimes like shoplifting or non—violent minor incidents. now, those crimes can have a very real effect on society around them. but sending someone to prison for a matter of weeks who's been doing petty theft , well, not only does that theft, well, not only does that cost a fortune, but what it also doesis cost a fortune, but what it also does is socialise often young petty criminals into serious

organised, hardline criminals. and it also often takes away their chances of getting a proper job and earning an honest wage . so that's why i think wage. so that's why i think short sentences should be dropped because they just don't work. look at the evidence. the reoffending rate for people that have been to prison for a couple of months opposed to a couple of months as opposed to a couple of months as opposed to a couple of is double. 50% of of years is double. 50% of people on short sentences go to on reoffend. so clearly it's not teaching them a lesson. what i say is that we should spend that money on having people that can rehabilitate these people , rehabilitate these people, better probation officers to try and integrate them back into the community, because short sentences don't work. let's spend the money on rehabilitation for petty thieves and not integrating them into hard line criminals for a couple of months behind bars. now, darren, what do you think ? darren, what do you think? >> i think that's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard in my entire life . you are in my entire life. you are basically saying that you want

to turn this country into san francisco. a democrat ran hellhole, which is crime ridden and which in which people there is lawlessness like you wouldn't believe. you basically want to us be a lawless hellhole in which people can shoplift readability station, pull the other one. they've got about as much chance of that as someone who is totally and utterly addicted to drugs . it is a very, addicted to drugs. it is a very, very hard ask. you think that getting someone in to deal with these people on god knows how much in the way of taxpayer cash is going to sort them out? the only reason you don't make any sense, these people on the streets is so they can vote laboun >> what a load of nonsense. look, 50% people who go into look, 50% of people who go into pnson look, 50% of people who go into prison go on to reoffend. so this means that there are this system means that there are more because they're not more crimes because they're not getting and getting out of those habits and they who often drag they meet people who often drag them further that world. so them further into that world. so that work . and when you that doesn't work. and when you talk about lawless hellhole , i talk about lawless hellhole, i mean, a terrible mean, america is a terrible example they incarcerate example because they incarcerate more people than any democracy in world and they have very

in the world and they have very high crime rates. so clearly, there a great correlation there isn't a great correlation when we have twice as many people prisons in this people in prisons in this country today than we did 30 years and yet petty crime years ago. and yet petty crime is rise. is on the rise. >> benjamin i've got to say, >> the benjamin i've got to say, i mean, i know you don't like short sentences because your monologues always go on too long for but if you are saying for me, but if you are saying that 50% the people who go that 50% of the people who go into with a short into prison with a short sentence re—offend , that means sentence re—offend, that means 50% don't. for 50. it totally works. 100% of the time. >> i mean, that's a very expensive way to do things. and one the problems we have with one of the problems we have with our system is that we our prison system is that we don't them to leave don't prepare them to leave prison. so you have somebody who's probably to crime who's probably turned to crime because don't any because they don't know any better . you know, they've not better. you know, they've not been taught the kind of boundanes been taught the kind of boundaries and morals that we should not guessing should have. it's not guessing at are these are at all. these are these are absolutely people the absolutely what people in the sector know better. >> pretty sure. >> i'm pretty sure. >> i'm pretty sure. >> clearly don't know any better. >> do know better. but i think actually you're insulting the criminals that they're criminals by saying that they're not intelligent enough to know what they're many them not intelligent enough to know wheultimately, many them not intelligent enough to know wheultimately,let'smany them

not intelligent enough to know wheultimately, let's think them do. ultimately, let's think about reality of this. we about the reality of this. if we completely you know, about the reality of this. if we comjthan.y you know, about the reality of this. if we comjthan a you know, about the reality of this. if we comjthan a year you know, about the reality of this. if we comjthan a year prisonrou know, less than a year prison sentences, that you're sentences, that means you're taking away that choice from judges. also means that there judges. it also means that there will crimes did have will be crimes that did have a pnson will be crimes that did have a prison that now won't. prison sentence that now won't. when taking away that when you're taking away that crime, taking, taking crime, you're taking, taking away you're away that punishment, you're effectively that those away that punishment, you're effectiv are that those away that punishment, you're effectiv are completely those crimes are completely okay to happen, you're at all happen, but you're not at all because they should have community punishments make community punishments that make them behaviour. >> the goal of prison is to get someone to learn lesson and someone to learn the lesson and to behaviour. if to change their behaviour. if they're changing their they're not changing their behaviour, your behaviour, you're wasting your money. the goal of money. i think the goal of pnson money. i think the goal of prison some cases be to prison can in some cases be to change behaviour, but it can also to be remove also just to be remove problematic from society problematic people from society and everyone else can and so that everyone else can just punish just live their lives and punish them. there is an them. i think there is an important point that maybe you're missing, which is the you're missing, which is at the moment don't have enough moment we don't have enough space . i think space in prisons. i think there's was going there's only about i was going to under the tories and to say 50 under the tories and 50 tories. we don't 50 under the tories. we don't even up rapists. i'm making even lock up rapists. i'm making the point for you, benjamin, and that lock even that we don't lock up even serious criminals. so what? alex chalk secretary, is chalk the justice secretary, is proposing we reduce the proposing is that we reduce the number of sentences that we give

out petty crimes so we number of sentences that we give out lock etty crimes so we number of sentences that we give out lock up' crimes so we number of sentences that we give out lock up actuals so we number of sentences that we give out lock up actual criminals. 'e number of sentences that we give out lock up actual criminals. i can lock up actual criminals. i actually we to actually think that we need to just be building more prisons and up people for a and locking up people for a longer of time because longer amount of time because actually see less. can actually i want to see less. can ijust actually i want to see less. can i just say this is a ridiculous thing to say, because one of the reasons is going to reasons why someone is going to return to stealing because return to stealing is because they option they don't have another option available to them. they probably don't education don't have a serious education once been prison. it once they've been to prison. it makes even harder to makes it even harder to get a job if you're cornering them to keep you're keep behaving like that, you're not society . you're not benefiting society. you're just good about being mean. >> infantilise and patronise and nonsense. they don't have any other option. don't put things that aren't yours in your pockets. that's an option. >> i mean, darren, it's not only theft. we're talking about burglary. we're talking about people that are going enter people that are going to enter somebody else's home and take things i do think things from them. i do not think that people should be that these people should be walking without walking the streets without having prison. having been to prison. >> example, benjamin, >> so, for example, benjamin, you unfortunately were mugged in london. not gone london. should he have not gone to prison? >> that violent >> well, that was a violent incident strangled incident because they strangled me and threatened me with a knife. so i don't think violent

incidents this knife. so i don't think violent incidentsthat's this knife. so i don't think violent incidentsthat's more this knife. so i don't think violent incidentsthat's more serious. but because that's more serious. but ijust because that's more serious. but i just think this idea that you can someone a can simply throw someone in a cage weeks and then cage for a few weeks and then expect that they're going to be a person when they a different person when they come is clearly come out is clearly preposterous. very preposterous. and it's a very expensive to 50% of the time. >> so then arrest >> so then if you arrest somebody, again, it's 75% of the time. and then again, you know, but, our reoffending but, you know, our reoffending rates in this country much rates in this country are much higher many of our european counterparts. >> so clearly, we've got stuff worth nicking every time someone does 40 grand a year for them what, 40 grand a year for them to prison . to be in prison. >> hey, could have went on >> hey, we could have went on and that one, but and on with that one, but unfortunately haven't the unfortunately we haven't the time. still ahead, leo is time. now. still ahead, leo is going to continue with his shameless adoration of greta thunberg your questions in answer all your questions in flummox five. so keep flummox the five. so keep emailing but next, some emailing them in. but next, some people say multiculturalism has failed. albee's got a plan to prove them wrong. you're with the saturday five live on .

knows you're listening to gb news radio .

news radio. >> welcome back to the saturday five as always cheers very much for all of your emails. now chris has written in and chris says it's worth remembering that the reform party got more votes than the conservative and lib dems. aren't they? the ones to watch? they got more than the lib dems, think in one of them lib dems, i think in one of them in the by elections, but not more than the conservatives. >> more the >> not more than the conservatives. was conservatives. what was interesting about reform uk is that got more that in both seats they got more votes labour majority. votes than the labour majority. so would suggest if so it would suggest that if reform standing, maybe reform weren't standing, maybe the have won the conservatives would have won those seats. >> okay, so richard got >> okay, so richard tice has got the dancing in the the conservatives dancing in the heat now. rob says , oh well, let heat now. rob says, oh well, let everyone out of prison if it's cruel to have illegal migrants on a barge, then it follows that we should not lock up anyone in a prison. he's given benjamin buttennorth some ideas. i'm sure they're all jolly nice and have just been misunderstood and probably probably misgendered as well. rob who knows? but thank

you very much for your emails. it's time for our next debate. now, though . up next, it's now, though. up next, it's albion he's given himself a pretty hard task here. admits rise in community tensions and claims that multiculturalism has failed. he's going to pitch a national integration policy. it's time for albee's argument. >> absolutely right. look, it's become abundantly clear to me that immigration without integration has been a complete disaster for this country. whether or not that is the parallel societies that we've seen emerge in our great northern towns like rochdale and oldham and rotherham , or if it's oldham and rotherham, or if it's the community tensions that we've seen in flame after the after the after the awful war that we're seeing in israel. and palestine, we're seeing it spill out onto the streets of london, manchester and birmingham. it's simply unsustainable for us to continue on this path without out a specific government policy on integration. i was pretty horrified to learn that there is not a uk wide national

integration policy and we've seen these huge levels of migration after the blair government and continued under subsequent conservative governments . but no one has governments. but no one has stood still and thought how do we integrate all of these people? how do we make sure everyone rubs along and we have a cohesive, safe and prosperous society ? that's why i'm calling society? that's why i'm calling for a government focus on integration. now now, what could this look like ? i think for this look like? i think for prospective immigrants and asylum seekers, at the very least , we asylum seekers, at the very least, we should be asylum seekers, at the very least , we should be expecting least, we should be expecting them to have a basic level of english. i think that all employers that sponsor visas for international workers should have a duty to make sure that their employers , their their employers, their employees, are trained in british integration . i think british integration. i think that when people are applying for visas into the united kingdom, there should be a values based psycho metric test to ensure that the people who are coming to our countries adhere to and want to adhere to

british values and we should not be scared of rejecting those who fail for the rest of society because it's not just a problem with new immigrants, it's a problem with immigrant communities who have been here for decades. we need to be looking a statutory duty on looking at a statutory duty on local authorities to promote integration and not just social integration and notjust social cohesion. and i also think we need a national a national citizenship survey s with the express mission of integrating our races , cultures, religions our races, cultures, religions and classes. now, these are just some ideas from about integration for this country. other people will have other ideas. it's not going to be an easy task. it is going to take time . but there's one thing i am time. but there's one thing i am certain of and that is that multiculturalism will fail unless we have a focus on integration . darren, i know that integration. darren, i know that you are very passionate about reading using the level of immigration in this country. reading using the level of immigration in this country . and immigration in this country. and i think, look, i agree. immigration has been too high in

this country for too long 1.2 million net migration is not a sustainable number of people. and i'm pro saying that. but when it comes to the issue of integrating people, are you not shocked that the conservatives over the last 13 years have not thought, well, maybe we should make a national integration policy? do you know what it reminds me? >> that every thing that's just been said there reminds of been said there reminds me of when i went to cover the when i went up to cover the batley spen by—election and batley and spen by—election and george stood that george galloway stood in that by—election the most by—election and it was the most divisive, race baiting religion , divisive, race baiting religion, foreign conflicts , trying to foreign conflicts, trying to evoke all of these things. it was genuinely horrible to see and all the campaigning material was i just thought, are we campaigning in a part of britain or in a part of somewhere else? this just feels utterly absurd. so i think you've got an unenviable task on your hands for this national what was it, the national the national citizenship service, citizenship service . i

citizenship service, citizenship service. i perhaps citizenship service, citizenship service . i perhaps i citizenship service, citizenship service. i perhaps i do citizenship service, citizenship service . i perhaps i do worry service. i perhaps i do worry about that. but my answer would be if you stand on britain's streets like we've seen people do today and shout jihad streets like we've seen people do today and shoutjihad , jihad, do today and shout jihad, jihad, jihad, i have no idea if i can do that. if that's ofcom compliant. but if you do that, get out. right? why are you here? leave. >> but then we also have to give people something to buy into. so it's not just a stick, it's also a carrot. we've got to say to people who come to this country like my grandparents, come here. if you don't want your ancestors, your ancestors ancestors, your your ancestors will done, though it's will have done, even though it's probably not that far back to use the word ancestor. but you know mean. we've got to know what i mean. we've got to give something give them people something positive and at the positive to buy into and at the moment we have that. moment we don't have that. >> why? yes. and what i will say is that there a huge is that there is a huge difference between the generations come to generations that have come to this grandparents generations that have come to this to grandparents generations that have come to this to this grandparents generations that have come to this to this country|randparents generations that have come to this to this country from )arents generations that have come to this to this country from north; came to this country from north africa came to this africa and they came to this country. felt honoured to country. they felt honoured to come this country to work, to come to this country to work, to control route to the british economy contribute economy to and contribute to the labour are labour market. now, there are far too people come to far too many people that come to this and feel as

this country now and feel as though it is their right to do so. it is their right to take a taxpayer money from other taxpayers through the benefit system. right to system. it is their right to enter into social housing. and i think that there is a huge difference there. now, i would argue the welfare state act as a magnet for many of those types of migrants. people don't come to this anymore the way to this country anymore the way my grandparents did and think it's honour do so, to it's an honour to do so, to contribute. they come here it's an honour to do so, to contribuitheyley come here it's an honour to do so, to contribuithey think he here it's an honour to do so, to contribuithey think they are it's an honour to do so, to contribuithey think they have the because they think they have the right so . right to do so. >> well, benjamin i actually met a fellow gay man last weekend who that he moved here. who told me that he moved here. what from ? he said, he said that what from? he said, he said that he moved here from greece because he wanted to live in a more in a more diverse and tolerant and open society. and he did feel honoured to he actually did feel honoured to come to this country. so he actually did feel honoured to come to this country . so there come to this country. so there are still that move here, are still people that move here, i the right reasons. i think, for the right reasons. but is it that we integrate but how is it that we integrate them into british society them better into british society ? i mean, look, first of all, i don't accept what reem just said. you know, people aren't automatically to the automatically entitled to the benefits or i might be benefits that you or i might be when to this country.

when they get to this country. and earn and pay and immigrants earn and pay more, earn more, and pay more tax the average british tax than the average british born citizen. so if you took them out of the scenario, our economy, public finances economy, our public finances would be in a much worse position . you know, i went to, position. you know, i went to, as albie did , the london school as albie did, the london school of economics, where i also went there. there we go, three other alumni on the on the panel. and so, as you all know, 70% of students at that university, 80% when i was there from when i was there are from countries world. it countries around the world. it has many nationality as as has as many nationality as as the united nations. and it works fantastic mystically. for me, it's an example at it's an example of britain at its you have the its best because you have the talent from around the world coming i the coming here. and i think the idea multiculturalism has idea that multiculturalism has failed because we have failed is wrong because we have issues. britain is a very issues. but britain is a very successful multicultural nation. the kind of problems we have compared to france or america or, heaven forbid, the middle east, they're nothing like the scale that very similar countries. >> but let's be honest, there is a big difference between a bunch of students that have received top grades the of top grades and the kids of

diplomats immigration diplomats and mass immigration that seeing at the moment. that we're seeing at the moment. there is a big difference. >> thing, which >> i'd say one thing, which is that think shouldn't you that i think you shouldn't you should to learn english. should have to learn english. you know, i remember i've you know, i remember when i've gone hamlets and you gone round tower hamlets and you have, you have women in particular. there who have lived here for many decades and they've never learned the language and they don't have agency to look after themselves. and they're not integrated. and agency to look after themselves. athinkey're not integrated. and agency to look after themselves. athinkey're should egrated. and agency to look after themselves. athink ey're should egrated. your i think that should change your view this very briefly. view on this very briefly. >> no, i think i think we covered it. i mean, when you look at you're not you're not taking representative taking a representative sample. it's all it's ridiculous. and for multicultural multiculturalism, you to say multiculturalism, for you to say it's a success, what about it's been a success, what about grooming gangs? what about terrorist about terrorist bombings? what about the seeing today? the riots we're seeing today? >> people that have >> well, most people that have been grooming, that been been grooming, that have been convicted country are convicted in this country are white men. so isn't it white british men. so isn't it your 87% we should have an 87% white country, or at least it was last time somebody checked. >> imagine people >> she'd imagine the people coming channel coming across the channel unchecked. that's changed. but so you'd expect over 50% of the grooming gangs or the organised

to be white in an 87% white country. we're talking about proportions 80 you've got a tiny proportions 80 you've got a tiny proportion of the population vastly overrepresented in this. most horrific crime. and i think it's sick that the left has covered it up. and that's why the left lost me. >> to be honest, i think britain is a lot richer for its multiculturalism. >> right on that bombshell. still ahead, we're going to be giving our verdict about those stunning by—election results last and considering rishi last week. and considering rishi sunak ban sunak potential ban on conversion therapy in more detail. but next up, it's our regular meeting of the greta thunberg appreciation society. president leo kearse is with us. you'll hear more from him imminently. you're with the saturday five live on

on mark dolan tonight. >> in my big opinion, royal mail is now royal mail checks missing in the post birthday cards disappearing waiting days on end for that important invoice post,

pat would be spinning in his grave . it pat would be spinning in his grave. it might take a ten comedy writer richard curtis apology quizzes for fat jokes and his un—pc movies. remember the good old days when films were allowed to be funny? plus, mark meets the pundits and tomorrow's papers . we're live . tomorrow's papers. we're live. at nine. >> welcome back to the saturday five. your emails have been flying in as ever. cheers very much for them. tucker has written in. i wonder if it's tucker carlson. he says, oh, it's definitely not. it's not multiculturalism that's gone wrong. multiculturalism has worked , says tucker. britain's worked, says tucker. britain's a multicultural country. what has gone wrong , seriously wrong is gone wrong, seriously wrong is into grecian that has really, really failed. antonio says. don't forget prison is where criminals are locked up. so society is safe from them. i know i say we should put benjamin buttennorth in one. maybe that's the answer for

this. now, though, it's time for our next debate. and that isn't on or not benjamin on whether or not benjamin buttennorth in prison. buttennorth should be in prison. it's lovable youngster it's on the lovable youngster greta thunberg, who are all great fans of now. she's had her say on the conflict in the middle east because obviously the entire section between climate and gaza, they're one and the same. lee aukus is very unimpressed, though. and i wonder why it's time for leo's lament. >> so yeah, as darren said, the eternally irritating doom unit great attenberg came out in favour of islamic jihad. this week. i mean, i'm not surprised everybody under 25 seems to have as well. but why is she supporting hamas? why is she siding with these terrorists ? i siding with these terrorists? i mean, she doesn't like it when we burn coal, but somehow hamas burning rocket fuel, burning people's homes , even burning people's homes, even burning civilians themselves is fine by her. she posted an image on social media with her holding up a sign saying, i think it said free gaza or i stand with gaza ,

free gaza or i stand with gaza, although she is sitting down and it interestingly in the corner, you can see there, a blue octopus , the significance of octopus, the significance of which was seized upon by some as an example of a dog whistle. it echoes propaganda that showed a blue octopus taking over the world, supposedly only standing for the for the jewish people. but what i want to know is why is greta thunberg taking sides on divisive, divisive issues such as the conflict in israel and the trans debate? her core issue should be climate change, so she shouldn't be pushing away people who who should be who could be on her side. people who who should be who could be on her side . israelis could be on her side. israelis buy cars. jews buy cars, civilised people buy cars. so don't alienate those people. don't push them away. it really just shows that she's not interested in saving the climate at all. she's just a desperate , at all. she's just a desperate, fame hungry grifter . like like fame hungry grifter. like like so many other people in the left. sorry, benjamin . and. and

left. sorry, benjamin. and. and she's just trying to reinvent herself like madonna. but like madonna , she needs to go out for madonna, she needs to go out for retirement now. so greta, sling your hook . your hook. >> well, well, well , benjamin, >> well, well, well, benjamin, you've got to have right to reply to being a fame hungry grifter . grifter. >> yeah, i'm not desperate, but the rest is true . i mean, look, the rest is true. i mean, look, i don't agree with greta thunberg on this, and i can't stand people that that talk of free palestine. well the people that run palestine don't believe in any sort of freedom. so, you know, i issue with the know, i take issue with the conclusion she comes to. but she is someone who has built one of the of anybody the biggest platforms of anybody in world. she's incredibly in the world. she's incredibly influential. ten of millions of young people listen to her. and i think it's perfectly reasonable that she'd have an opinion lots of things . you opinion on lots of things. you know, there's plenty of stuff that lecture about that you that you lecture about that you know nothing of. i hardly think you off. you can pull greta off. >> think know more about >> i think i know more about most things than than a 14 year old child. >> 20 now, i think. >> she's like 20 now, i think. >> she's like 20 now, i think. >> well, she still looks about

14. don't know what's going 14. i don't know what's going on. and honestly, there must be 14. i don't know what's going on.many1onestly, there must be 14. i don't know what's going on.many scientists, 1ere must be 14. i don't know what's going on.many scientists, soe must be 14. i don't know what's going on.many scientists, so manyt be so many scientists, so many climate scientists who've climate change scientists who've slaved away. they've put the hours they've got the phds, hours in, they've got the phds, and they could be giving these lectures. and instead, you know, this little girl . this this, this little girl. >> surely you don't think only experts on topics should have opinions on certain topics. othennise what are we all doing here? talking about things that we actually don't. >> think ridiculous >> you think it's a ridiculous idea to turn to experts idea for us to turn to experts for what they think instead of asking child, your inference asking a child, your inference is that no one other than experts on a topic should have an my my point an opinion. my point, my point is she cares about is that if she cares about climate shouldn't be climate change, she shouldn't be supporting like taking sides on divisive issues that will push away people. like i was away people. like if i was a civilised person, which i'm not, then i'd be i'd be saying, well, she's supporting hamas. i'm not going to i'm not going to listen to her. on climate change. you know what? i'm going to get a five litre car. i'm going to do doughnuts the car park. screw doughnuts in the car park. screw you, greta. >> it sounds as though you want to be greta thunberg's campaign manager

to be greta thunberg's campaign managtthis advice about what her all this advice about what she should and shouldn't do. but i think you're arguing i don't think you're arguing that shouldn't these that she shouldn't have these opinions saying opinions at all. you're saying that was a better that if she was a better campaigner, if she was little campaigner, if she was a little bit intelligent the bit more intelligent in the way that strategized, if she that she strategized, if she cared about cared about cared about if she cared about climate change, she would only talk about climate change. i mean, lots of mean, i care about lots of things. i don't just talk things. and i don'tjust talk about the things care about. i about the things i care about. i talk about things. >> a issue campaigner. >> no, that's true. but i don't think she has to be. well but you know, if you did actually genuinely believe every you know, if you did actually genu ofly believe every you know, if you did actually genu of your lieve every you know, if you did actually genu of your being, every you know, if you did actually genu of your being, which )ry you know, if you did actually genu of your being, which she fibre of your being, which she professes to do, you know, she's been quite few times been arrested quite a few times in climate alarmism. in the name of climate alarmism. >> those short sentences >> it's those short sentences not working. >> she's re—offender yes, >> she's the re—offender yes, indeed. >> saying things indeed. >> the saying things indeed. >> the world saying things indeed. >> the world sa�*aboutlings indeed. >> the world sa�*about to gs indeed. >> the world sa�*about to end. like, the world is about to end. if we don't action right if we don't take action right now. well sorry, love, now. well i'm sorry, love, but i don't think fire rockets don't think fire and rockets into every hour of the into israel every hour of the day is doing much for, i think the will be very clear. the big will be very clear. >> her saying palestine >> her saying free palestine will stand with gaza does not necessarily supports necessarily mean she supports hamas. got to hamas. and i think we've got to be clear about this. you be very clear about this. you can say palestine, can say free palestine, palestine dream.

can say free palestine, palyou're dream. can say free palestine, palyou're being. can say free palestine, palyou're being you're being >> you're being you're being naive. we're is it where is our outrage? our didn't outrage? where is our why didn't she i stand with israel when she say i stand with israel when the were killed ? the civilians were being killed? but then all of a sudden she's she's with she's she's standing with gaza. she's she's standing with gaza. she's she's and she's she's taking a side and she's taking side barbarianism taking the side of barbarianism and know if she and terror. i don't know if she did she didn't condemnation did say she didn't condemnation to hamas or if she did say , i to hamas or if she did say, i stand with the israeli people that have been have been that have been that have been massacred terrorist massacred by the terrorist organisation hamas . organisation that is hamas. >> be very clear. you >> but let's be very clear. you can i support the can say i support the palestinian without palestinian people without supporting palestinian people without supp think the bigger concern is >> i think the bigger concern is people who are around greta's age generally to be more age generally seem to be more pro—palestine than than pro—israel. in the rest west and what that mean future what does that mean for future western support the state of israel? >> well , yes, indeed. >> well, yes, indeed. >> well, yes, indeed. >> i mean , it is a really >> i mean, it is a really important point that how do we actually stop young people from being as indoctrinated as greta? >> oh, that's so patronising. >> oh, that's so patronising. >> just because >> people just because they don't to same far right don't come to the same far right conclusions that you come doesn't they don't know doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about. >> got up. >> i've got to wrap up. fortunately right. loads more to come tonight on show,

come tonight on the show, though, verdict on though, including our verdict on a new leader for the a possible new leader for the tories . who could it be? it's tories. who could it be? it's not.leo tories. who could it be? it's not. leo kearse is rishi sunaks ban on conversion therapy a good idea? have men forgotten how to dress? answer all your dress? and we answer all your questions in flummox a5 keep your emails coming. you're with us saturday five live on

gb news away. it's saturday night.

welcome back to the saturday five. i'm darren grimes along with albie amankona reem ibrahim benjamin buttennorth and leo kearse. more to come the kearse. lots more to come on the show. to be spinning show. we're going to be spinning through the big stories through some of the big stories of week in bunch of five. of the week in bunch of five. and a great guest and we'll have a great guest here discuss. rishi sunaks here to discuss. rishi sunaks plans to ban conversion therapy. now to be asking now we're going to be asking if men forgotten to dress men have forgotten to how dress smartly were smartly because leo shown were all tonight. pay all up tonight. and we'll pay a tribute the football legend tribute to the football legend bobby charlton, who sadly passed away folks , away today. now folks, do forget about your emails. do not forget about your emails. i coming in because i want them coming in because you to flummox and you need to flummox the five and we're flummoxed, i'll we're easily flummoxed, i'll tell anything you tell you that much. anything you want answer, we'll it want us to answer, we'll do it towards the of the show. towards the end of the show. it's guaranteed to be non scripted, prepared and scripted, non prepared and nonsensical, just like a benjamin column benjamin buttennorth column hit us with absolutely everything you've got. gb at you've got. gb views at cbnnews.com. but before the chaos get chaos restarts now, let's get your latest news with the lovely lisa hartle . lisa hartle. >> i'm lisa hartle in the newsroom . the uk is calling on newsroom. the uk is calling on israel to show military restraint in its war with hamas.

addressing a peace summit in egypt, the foreign secretary said he's spoken to the israeli government about its duty to respect international law and the importance of preserving civilian lives . james cleverly civilian lives. james cleverly also told the conference efforts need to be made to prevent an escalation in violence . escalation in violence. >> we have a duty , a duty to >> we have a duty, a duty to work together to prevent instability from engulfing the region and claiming yet more lives . we must work together to lives. we must work together to prevent the tragic situation in gaza becoming a regional conflict because that is exactly what hamas wants. trucks carrying humanitarian aid have now reached southern gaza . now reached southern gaza. >> it's after the rafah crossing on the border with egypt was opened for the first time in two weeks. israel imposed a blockade preventing the delivery of food, water and fuel after the hamas terror attack . meanwhile terror attack. meanwhile israel's prime minister has

vowed to continue to fight until all hostage is being held by hamas are freed . it's after two hamas are freed. it's after two american citizens judith raanan and her 17 year old daughter, natalie , were released yesterday natalie, were released yesterday . hamas says the decision was made on humanitarian grounds . made on humanitarian grounds. it's believed more than 200 people are still being held by the terrorist group propane opinion protests have been taking place in cities across the uk . they're calling for an the uk. they're calling for an end to the conflict in the middle east and demanding the government stop supporting israel's actions . police israel's actions. police estimate up to 100,000 people took part in a protest through central london in salford, a group marched to the bbc's media city headquarters over the corporation's reporting of the israel hamas conflict around 2000 people also took to the streets in belfast . rallies were streets in belfast. rallies were also held in birmingham and cardiff . in other news, tributes cardiff. in other news, tributes are being paid to sir bobby charlton , who has died at the

charlton, who has died at the age of 86. he was a key member of england's world cup winning team in 1966 and a club legend at manchester united. his family said he'd passed away peacefully in the early hours of this morning . in a statement, united morning. in a statement, united described sir bobby as the most one of the most beloved players in the history of the club and the prince of wales, who's president of the fa, called him a true great who will be remembered forever . the remembered forever. the environment agency is warning floods are likely to continue near major rivers in england until tuesday. storm babet is dumping heavy rain in parts of the east midlands and south yorkshire . nottinghamshire yorkshire. nottinghamshire county council has declared a major incident with a severe flood warning in derby . the city flood warning in derby. the city council says its experience the highest recorded water levels of the river dennent with roads flooded across the city. this is gb news across the uk on tv , in gb news across the uk on tv, in your car and digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying

play on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's back to the . saturday five. the. saturday five. >> thanks lisa. now it's saturday night folks, and you're so with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes and i can promise that this next hour is going to be even more lively than the first we're going to climax with flummox the so please keep flummox the five. so please keep your questions flying in. but now, though, it's time for bunch of five where we spin through five of the week's big stories and give our always well considered and thoughtful opinions . considered and thoughtful opinions. now gb news considered and thoughtful opinions . now gb news presented opinions. now gb news presented nigel farage set tongues wagging when he suggested that he could be leading the conservative party by 2026. even benjamin buttennorth said i'd vote for him. the former brexit party leader was a prominent fixture at the conservative party conference earlier this month , conference earlier this month, but later told politico he made the comment in jest . but later told politico he made the comment in jest. but bearing in mind this week's by—election results is nigel farage as tory

leader really such an unlikely scenario ? so i'll be if the scenario? so i'll be if the tories are heading for opposition, do you reckon, nigel, would you be happy to serve under nigel farage led conservative party ? conservative party? >> look, i think nigel and i is quite obvious to everyone watching that we're quite different people on the right wing of british politics and i've got lot of respect for i've got a lot of respect for nigel. i think what he with nigel. i think what he did with brexit was really quite impressive. we've got impressive. but also we've got to remember was deemed to remember that he was deemed to remember that he was deemed to toxic to front the official vote leave campaign. so the idea that the same person could front the most successful british political party in history , i political party in history, i think is for the birds. i think he's certainly had a very influential impact on the conservative party , but i think conservative party, but i think i would be very surprised if he ever became the leader of the conservative party. >> benjamin, you're very excited about prospect about the prospect act. >> have some >> yeah, you better have some libel after all, libel lawyers. after all, support us. it's obviously support for us. it's obviously never going to happen. i think there'd be the most amazing

internal war in the tories if there was a serious move to do it. i think even people that share farage style politics wouldn't want him in the tories because they know he'd beat them in a leadership election with tory suspect. but tory members, i suspect. but look has been look, his whole career has been about shouting about shout, shouting at problems, problems . problems, not solving problems. you know, he was very influential on persuading people to did to brexit, but he never did anything. he never had any answers . and so i can't imagine answers. and so i can't imagine this bloke that earns a very nice income and has a very nice life is going to want to do the actual hard graft of solving problems prime minister problems by being prime minister or tory leader. >> i mean, i'm not just >> i mean, leo i'm notjust saying this because we with saying this because we work with them, like everything from them, but like everything from them, but like everything from the to of the de—banking crisis to of course his europol scepticism, which became very popular with the whole country, of course , or the whole country, of course, or 52% of it at least that that is a sign of a successful politician, is it not? >> yeah. you can see where trends are going. and i mean, it might take a bit longer than 2026 for, know , where he's 2026 for, you know, where he's seeing the country is going to actually get there and for

people to be sick of where it's going. but it could happen. and also the conservative party, they've really sort of been lured into the trap of becoming a really centrist, quite, quite a really centrist, quite, quite a large , quite socialist a large, quite socialist government. and it's like the great comedian geoff norcott says, you know, people say to him, do you voting him, do you regret voting conservative? says , no, conservative? and he says, no, but regret not getting but i regret not getting a conservative party >> you agree with those sentiments? >> i do. i do. also really , >> i do. i do. also really, really love nigel. i think he's fantastic communicator. i think he really does depict what it means to be pro brexit, but also pro free trade . and he, you pro free trade. and he, you know, he really his definite sign of what brexit should have looked like isn't the one that we have at the moment. ultimately, the conservative government delivered on brexit. they they they took back control, but they we've policies that we've implemented policies that have negatively impacted the british . i will say british economy. i will say albee makes a very, very good point. leave campaign point. the vote leave campaign deemed too toxic to lead deemed nigel too toxic to lead it to be the face of it. and the reason why is because they thought he was too radical. the

people that did already believe in brexit had believed in that and actually in order to get the centre people side, the centre people on side, the centrists nigel would centrists on side, nigel would have for that have been too toxic for that kind environment. kind of environment. >> all right. >> all right. >> we'll let the viewers decide because we asked you >> we'll let the viewers decide becausvote we asked you >> we'll let the viewers decide becausvote for we asked you >> we'll let the viewers decide becausvote for rishi rsked you >> we'll let the viewers decide becausvote for rishi sunaks you would vote for rishi sunaks conservative party next conservative party in the next general election. in now, 42% of you yes, 58% of you said no you said yes, 58% of you said no . so there goes albee's prospects of being the next conservative mp. >> then i thought, do you think so? >> i would. are you quite surprised? >> i would have thought it would have been a lot higher for no than yes. >> well, that's not a ringing endorsement, is it? >> no. >> no. >> next up, folks, the closure of the only bank left on oakham high has made residents high street has made residents fearful they'll no longer fearful that they'll no longer be able to access notes and coins. that's another issue that nigel farage has been good on. rutland locals are largely retired and favour independent retailers and cafes , preferring retailers and cafes, preferring to pay with cash. but acts in the final local bank might mean businesses have to stop accepting cash altogether . so

accepting cash altogether. so does the closure of high street banks mean that a cashless future is inevitable now? benjamin plenty of cash in your bank account. there's another liability statement, but do you ever carry any around? no >> no, i don't even, you know, a long time since i've even had a wallet that would take coins, for example. i don't know where you'd even get such a thing. but look, you know, i think this thing of trying to thrust cash back into people's lives doesn't make . because the reason make sense. because the reason that cards and that people use their cards and people ages use a card to people of all ages use a card to pay people of all ages use a card to pay with things or someone younger often use apple younger people often use apple pay phones and pay on their phones and equivalent versions because equivalent versions is because it's equivalent versions is because its and equivalent versions is because it's and it's safer for it's easier and it's safer for a lot of these cafes to not have all the cash in the store. there's no way it's easier to set up an online account. >> remember all the past words know all this. these things are doing. >> i'm going to confess. and here is where friends and i do have friends think crazy. i have friends think i'm crazy. i only internet banking last only got internet banking last week, 31. what i. i always week, aged 31. what i. i always

gone into the bank physically to do it and i have to say now i've got it. i mean, i really don't know what i was doing before. it's brilliant. and so if you can use it, it does, it does make more sense. >> but isn't it about allowing individuals to have that choice? i people enjoy i mean, many older people enjoy going bank. i know many, going to the bank. i know many, many people family, the many people in my family, the only time they really have any kind of human interaction is when the bank and when they go to the bank and when they go to the bank and when meet people and when they go to meet people and they enjoy that human interaction. made interaction. you've made the choice, to take some choice, i'm willing to take some rich the bank if rich old people to the bank if they want. >> okay. well. well, i'm sure you enjoy selflessly. do that selflessly. >> well, you've made the choice to banking, and to switch to online banking, and that's you. and do that's great for you. and i do agree that much more agree that it's much more efficient many people. but efficient for many people. but equally, there are many people that do and that don't wish to do that. and many are worried many people are worried about the tracking the government tracking where they're spending. >> exactly. a good >> well, exactly. that's a good point, a lot of point, leo. there are a lot of viewers who say, hang a viewers who say, hang on a minute. you know, i don't trust the government and all the rest of after what happened during of it after what happened during the lockdown. the years of lockdown. if we hand them control over of the years of lockdown. if we han money, control over of the years of lockdown. if we han money, are trol over of the years of lockdown. if we han money, are trol ogoing of the years of lockdown. if we

han money, are trol ogoing to be our money, are they going to be able say, we can't just bank able to say, we can't just bank you, we're going to ensure that you, we're going to ensure that you have any to you can't have any money to spend whatsoever? >> exactly. seeing digital >> exactly. we're seeing digital currencies being mooted that would which are would cbdcs. yeah. which are which horrific. it means which are horrific. it means that, you get given that, you know, you get given money only spend it money and you can only spend it and say a certain geography area within time limit. within a certain time limit. it's sort of like a record vouchen it's sort of like a record voucher. where's that? that's absolutely rubbish. >> britain. >> it's happening in britain. >> it's happening in britain. >> coming. albee >> this will be coming. albee it's happening it's happening. happening in china. want know china. and if you want to know what looks like, what your future looks like, look china. look at china. >> well, think we're >> well, i don't think we're actually going end like actually going to end up like china. benjamin on china. i'm with benjamin on this. it is easier to do online banking. it is very easy to use your bank card on your your digital bank card on your apple pay. i do still think there is place cash there is a place for cash because if we do look older because if we do look at older people, visiting my people, i was visiting my grandmother outside of grandmother just outside of manchester after conservative party paying party conference. she was paying for cash. there's party conference. she was paying for way cash. there's party conference. she was paying for way she's cash. there's party conference. she was paying for way she's going sh. there's party conference. she was paying for way she's going to there's party conference. she was paying forway she's going to starte's no way she's going to start using an iphone and using apple pay. >> and it's not just got to be it's just old people. it's it's not just old people. it's also i mean, tory politicians, what are they going to snort their through? their cocaine through? >> you that is >> well, you know, that is a very gallant concern that you

have politicians who do have for tory politicians who do not how kind of you. >> right. anyway rishi sunak rac survey has found that a third of drivers have been forced to swerve lanes to avoid a pothole. in the past year. the findings also highlight a growing dissatisfaction with britain's roads, with 49% saying it was their top concern. the highest figure since the annual survey beganin figure since the annual survey began in 2015. so why are britain's roads fallen apart and failing motorists? leo do you still take your ferrari out for a spin? are you worried about potholes? >> i don't think i'd invest in a ferrari with the roads. the state they're in, honestly. you drive around glasgow, you'd think you're driving across a rutted field. like. it's rutted field. it's like. it's like being in war torn somalia. just shelled. you go just freshly shelled. you go down one pothole, you're not sure if you're going to come out the other side. it's ridiculous. no everybody's getting no wonder everybody's getting four fours. and four by fours. you can't. and it's only going to get worse with getting electric with people getting electric cars battery cars because the battery is so heavy is until it blows up. >> course is that nicola

sturgeons campervan. yeah. >> yeah, i'll be. >> yeah, i'll be. >> i mean you do >> are you worried i mean you do you get people talking to you in local politics and all the rest of it about potholes. absolutely local politics and all the rest of i i about potholes. absolutely local politics and all the rest of h mean, )otholes. absolutely local politics and all the rest of h mean, )otia les. absolutely local politics and all the rest of h mean, )otia cyclist, olutely local politics and all the rest of h mean, )otia cyclist, ilutely local politics and all the rest of h mean, )otia cyclist, i know >> i mean, as a cyclist, i know everyone cyclists, but everyone hates cyclists, but i do a lot. if you cycle do cycle a lot. if you cycle over a pothole , you can over a pothole, you can ruin your bike. could fall over your bike. you could fall over and really hurt. well, that's a shame. >> i want. >> i want. >> but seriously, it's a serious issue. cyclists get seriously injured potholes . issue. cyclists get seriously injured potholes. horses issue. cyclists get seriously injured potholes . horses also injured by potholes. horses also don't like it when there are those and of those police horses and of course, cars can get course, people's cars can get damaged potholes well. damaged from potholes as well. but is our but the question is, is our council is being given enough money or raising enough money from in order to fix from council tax in order to fix this? because this is actually a local government problem, not a national government problem. and we talk about local we don't talk about local government we don't talk about local governmelvery true. we don't talk about local governme|very true. think >> that's very true. and i think it's important point. it's a very important point. national government is not responsible potholes. it's responsible for potholes. it's the councils that are the local councils that are i would argue, if we were to reform the tax system and make local councils responsible for raising revenue , a raising their own revenue, a this could actually come some way in solving the housing crisis because councils will be

incentivised to want more taxpayers their council to taxpayers in their council to raise more money. equally it raise more money. but equally it would that their response would mean that their response bill potholes and their bill for potholes and their actually engaged actually actively being engaged with taxpayers like that because i'm you'll you'll be aware with taxpayers like that because i'rrmatterou'll you'll be aware with taxpayers like that because i'rrmatter how you'll be aware with taxpayers like that because i'rrmatter how many be aware with taxpayers like that because i'rr matter how many times (are with taxpayers like that because i'rr matter how many times people no matter how many times people complain about potholes, it doesn't make doesn't really make a difference. >> on. didn't >> well, hang on. didn't margaret try something margaret thatcher try something like with poll tax? yes like that with the poll tax? yes but the poll very well. >> the poll tax is slightly different because means that, different because it means that, you know, every every individual is the same, matter is taxed. the same, no matter what their house what the value of their house is. but actually, what does is. but actually, what this does is. but actually, what this does is local councils is it means that local councils are incentivised try and are incentivised to try and engage more tax payers and engage with more tax payers and they're just more accountable to them. >> on potholes. one of the shocking i remember shocking things that i remember from coronation don't know from the coronation i don't know if saw, but they if any of you saw, but they actually to fill the actually had to fill the potholes on pall and on the potholes on pall mall and on the procession route with sand to ensure that was ensure that that was a conservative council into ensure that that was a c0|thelative council into ensure that that was a c0|the labourouncil into ensure that that was a c0|the labour council into ensure that that was a c0|the labour council this to ensure that that was a c0|the labour council this is. it. the labour council this is. >> but at the time it was a conservative. westminster was conservative. >> whoever was in charge of that council was not doing their job at filling the potholes and it meant on of the most

meant that on one of the most important days in this nation's history, we to fill up history, we had to fill up potholes sand so horses potholes with sand so horses wouldn't well wouldn't fill into it. well benjamin, you're benjamin, on this show, you're good at digging holes. >> so what do you care about filling them? >> i've never driven a car, which interests of which is in the interests of everyone who does drive a car. but, this is one of but, you know, this is one of the things that in the real world people's world really affects people's quality . it's kind quality of life. it's the kind of basic disrupts and, you of basic that disrupts and, you know, tax has never been higher for working age right for people of working age right now. everything britain now. and everything in britain is shouldn't be a is broken. so it shouldn't be a surprise the roads too . surprise that the roads are too. but you do look at the amount of money people paying tax and think can't even fill think you can't even fill a pothole. yes. >> what you spending pothole. yes. >> monethat you spending pothole. yes. >> money ihat yarchitect ing the money on now? architect emily blunt has apologised for a fatphobic remark made in a video from 2012. it's been circulating again on twitter this week . again on twitter this week. let's have a listen . let's have a listen. >> the girl who was serving me was enormous. you know, i think she got freebie meals at chilli's. >> nothing wrong with that. >> nothing wrong with that. >> and she comes out and she goes, did anyone ever tell you you look a lot like emily blunt? >> jonathan or was he

>> jonathan ross, or was he there taking the moral high ground? what now, did ground? what a world now, did those require an those comments really require an apology? and ten years on or over ten years on 12 years, 12 years on, does that require an apology again? >> absolutely not. and i think that this is where we starting to wrap people in cotton wool was starting to become more sensitive. and as a society, i mean, i actually don't think you should apologising should be apologising for anything with that length of time anyway, unless it's incredibly egregious. but this really ultimately, really is not. and ultimately, these of very offhand these kind of very offhand comments. now as a result of this kind of break down in society where people feel as though they need to be protected by everything , i mean, for by everything, i mean, for goodness sake, pair. well goodness sake, grow a pair. well i'll be you're probably with goodness sake, grow a pair. well i'll be blunte probably with goodness sake, grow a pair. well i'll be blunt on'obably with goodness sake, grow a pair. well i'll be blunt on this)ly with goodness sake, grow a pair. well i'll be blunt on this because the emily blunt on this because the way on sometimes you way you go on sometimes you would people the would have fat people in the stocks certainly have fat stocks and i certainly have fat people more and people doing more exercise and eating eating moving more. >> look, i think we can't be scared of calling people fat. and to be saying that it is a bad thing to be fat. now a days you have people put fat phobia on the level as racism or

on the same level as racism or homophobia sexism . it's not homophobia or sexism. it's not it is bad to be fat. if someone is fat. it's not a hate crime to describe them as enormous. so i think emily blunt being dragged free, speech being dragged over the coals for something she said 12 years ago, describing someone as having to as enormous and having to apologise ridiculous. apologise for it is ridiculous. >> mean, leo, the truth >> and i mean, leo, the truth is here, if blunt has to here, if emily blunt has to apologise for that, then you really are done for. >> oh, yeah. these are fence archaeologists who go dig archaeologists who go back, dig back through somebody tweets until 12 years ago. they until like 12 years ago. they find outline of a fat find the faint outline of a fat phobic slur. it's ridiculous. yeah, should dig through yeah, they should dig through mine. just need go back mine. you just need to go back to yesterday. >> i'm benjamin. to yesterday. >> i'm benjamin . you must have >> i'm benjamin. you must have said some offensive things once or ithink said some offensive things once or i think emily blunt is right >> i think emily blunt is right to apologise . oh, come on. to apologise. oh, come on. because it's so incredibly rude. you know, i don't want to see an extremely rich, you know , extremely rich, you know, unbelievably attractive, skinny woman lecturing some minimum wage person who's a bit ovenneight on national television . i think that's just television. i think that's just rude. fat people. no, they're fat. don't need to make

fat. they don't need you to make a joke out of it. >> i don't think the woman >> and i don't think the woman was saying anything bad to emily blunt. was she was blunt. right. she was she was just a nice conversation just having a nice conversation with telly . with her national british telly. she's called fat. >> terrible she was >> it was a terrible she was saying describing what she saying was describing what she saw situation. but saw in that situation. but imagine similar that story imagine similar to that story last about fiona bruce when last week about fiona bruce when she black bloke over she said that black bloke over there was forced there and she was forced to apologise that. and apologise because of that. and i said, i thought that was ridiculous. that that a ridiculous. that that was a black man. that was a fat it's not actually the big deal. can i just you know, imagine just say that, you know, imagine you're know, you're that person. you know, you're that person. you know, you struggling with you might be struggling with your weight. you're having a really time and then really hard time and then someone is just broadcast that insult people. insult to millions of people. i think gratuitous just think it's gratuitous and just quite yes. think it's gratuitous and just qui'wow. yes. think it's gratuitous and just qui'wow. finally a climate expert >> wow. finally a climate expert has been fired after turning down flight and taken 50 days down a flight and taken 50 days to research to reach his research destination. gianluca destination. now gianluca grimaldi , i'm sorry if i've got grimaldi, i'm sorry if i've got your name wrong. there refused a flight and asked to be allowed to travel by other means to reduces carbon emissions. his route, which included travelling by cargo , ship, ferry, bus and by cargo, ship, ferry, bus and train , took 50 days. grimaldo

train, took 50 days. grimaldo was warned that he'd be dismissed if he refused to get on the plane, but said if he had to comply with such demands to keep his job, he'd rather lose it. now benjamin , you've been it. now benjamin, you've been known take a few flights once known to take a few flights once or twice in your life. would you be name of climate be in the name of climate change? i'd be willing to give it all up. >> i think given he works for a climate research group , it's climate research group, it's incredible hypocrisy. >> you go on about it. >> but you go on about it. >> but you go on about it. >> they made him get the flight when he was doing ethical when he was doing it on ethical grounds. definitely with grounds. i'm definitely with this i think. you know, i this guy, i think. you know, i don't know how it takes 50 don't quite know how it takes 50 days papua new days to get from papua new guinea. don't think it should guinea. i don't think it should take that long. >> but i've taken you 50 to >> but i've taken you 50 days to go jungle wherever it go to the jungle or wherever it was he went. >> well, that was actually i was quite near new guinea and quite near papua new guinea and it 16 hours to get it took about 16 hours to get back. so there is quicker option. >> but you on a flight. >> but you were on a flight. yes, exactly. >> you were on a flight? i was. yes now, whose side are you on? >> yeah. i mean, this guy as much as a slam climber, activists, that have activists, the ones that have some are guys like some respect for are guys like this. emma thompson, emma

thompson first thompson would have flown first class, chucking cigar class, you know, chucking cigar butts as went butts out the window as she went entailing, know, little entailing, you know, the little people have to cut people that they have to cut their flights so she can their easyjet flights so she can enjoy her life of luxury. this guy is actually living he guy is actually living what he says, to say, says, although i've got to say, cargo ships don't run in zero. carbon cars don't run on zero carbon. he's still burning carbon. he's still burning carbon you carbon to get there. can you just research by zoom? just do the research by zoom? >> all right. we'll have to end it now still to come, it there. now still to come, though, forgotten how though, have men forgotten how to as i say, leo to dress properly? as i say, leo kearse showing us the way. and we're answer we're going to answer your questions five. questions in flummox the five. so them coming in. so please keep them coming in. next up, we'll be discussing prime minister rishi sunak's plans ban plans to potentially ban conversion therapy. and we've got help got a guest along to help us chew on one. you're chew the fat on that one. you're with the saturday five live on .

listening to gb news radio show. >> welcome . back to the saturday five. >> as always, cheers very much

for your emails about tonight's topics. richard's written in about leo and he says leo is the voice common sense, not less voice of common sense, not less sense. there are very sense. well, there we are very true, says most of our true, rob. rob says most of our knowledge of the israel—palestine conflict is spotty best. however, there spotty at best. however, there needs to be balance . violence needs to be balance. violence will not end the situation, stop the violence . regardless of who the violence. regardless of who you support . the violence. regardless of who you support. but philip, i think, has my favourite email and he says that i love how benjamin stands his ground and takes the jibes . he's still takes the jibes. he's still wrong, but i drink wine on a park bench with him now. he is often found on a park bench with a bottle of wine. >> so if you buy the wine, i'll turn up to the bench now, folks, next up, it's our next discussion . discussion. >> prime minister rishi sunak is reportedly set to move fonnard with a bill to ban conversion therapy in the king's speech, including for transgender people. or is he? the times reported this week that the prime minister will include a draft bill in the king's speech in november, which will make it

a criminal offence to attempt to change someone's sexuality and gender identity in england and wales . but now other reports are wales. but now other reports are claiming that this may not be the case. and another u—turn may well be on the way. we've got jayne ozanne , the chair of the jayne ozanne, the chair of the ban conversion therapy coalition. she spoke to the i this week about this topic and she's been kind enough to speak to us now i'll be you're going to us now i'll be you're going to speak to jane. take it away. >> jane, thank you so much for joining evening. you joining us this evening. you know , i understand that you've know, i understand that you've actually understand that actually been i understand that you've through you've actually been through this therapy process, this conversion therapy process, jane, maybe to us a little jane, maybe talk to us a little bit about what conversion therapy actually is and why the government to ban it. in government needs to ban it. in your opinion . your opinion. >> thanks, abby. well, conversion therapy is an umbrella term that mean any umbrella term that can mean any practise that seeks to change, cure or suppress a person's sexual orientation or gender identity. and it can take any form from in religious settings, prayers and exorcisms through to more violent forms of people

being physically threatened to sadly even forced rape to verbal forms. frankly, anything that has the predetermined purpose , a has the predetermined purpose, a mindset by the perpetrator that says that who you are is not acceptable either. in our religion or in our culture. and that you must somehow change or suppress who you are . and we suppress who you are. and we know that that causes such really deep mental health problems to the point that the level of attempted suicide and completed suicide is really very high. and jane, what would you say to people perhaps from the religious community who would say, if someone wants to take part in this sort of thing and it's not coercive , then that it's not coercive, then that should be allowed. >> and actually, if we were going to ban that, that would be an infringement on people's liberty . what would say to liberty. what would you say to people had that opinion on? people that had that opinion on? >> well, all forms of conversion therapy are , by their very

therapy are, by their very nature, coercive . in fact, the nature, coercive. in fact, the truth is the fact that someone's grown up in an environment where they're told as i was, that who you are is sinful, wrong and abomination meant that i willingly went out and sought for 20 years people who would pray for me, people who would deliver me from what we thought were various spirits, people who would give me counselling and heaung would give me counselling and healing prayer. and it meant that i ended up in hospital fighting for my life with my body, tracking up under the strain. and i know so many others haven't actually survived that. so all forms are coercive and need to be banned. but if we put in a coercive clause, which is what we understood the prime minister was thinking about, it puts all the onus on the vulnerable victim to prove that they were coerced rather than on they were coerced rather than on the perpetrator who gets away with carrying on as they always have. so when you hear when you hear ministers like kemi badenoch talking about

unintended consequences and then it cannot be right that therapists who are having challenging conversations with people suffering from gender distress about transitioning cannot be criminalised. >> what do you say to that? because surely it cannot be right that therapists and families having those difficult conversations are banned from doing so, doing so as a result of this legislation ? of this legislation? >> well, it's complete hogwash. i'll be nobody's banning those conversations. and kemi knows that this is purely a ruse by those who have a different agenda, who don't like trans people, who don't think that young people should be exposed to trans what they call ideology. all conversations, whether they're in the therapist chair, whether they're in the ministry of a religious leader or a parental home that challenges a young person, are good and right and proper. but it's when they're told that they can never be trans or they can never be gay because it doesn't fit with their culture. that

predetermined purpose , which is predetermined purpose, which is what the lawyers around the world have come together to recommend to the government they need to conclude the definition of this phrase predetermined purpose. that's when we have a problem . but having you so much problem. but having you so much for joining us this evening on what is a very thorny issue for some people. >> jayne ozanne, thank you very much. >> now, leo, i want to come back to that point that albee made there about kemi badenoch. now she would argue that she is an anti—trans , i'm quite sure. were anti—trans, i'm quite sure. were she here now that whole the premise of that question, though, was saying she's worried that actually being able to say to a young person, i mean, would you be worried about your child, for example, not being able to have a conversation with them for fear being accused of for fear of being accused of conversion therapy? >> exactly. and the danger >> yeah, exactly. and the danger that seen tavistock that we've seen at the tavistock and in gender clinics in the in the usa is that children are almost railroaded into into transitioning. there's not

enough sort of questions asked. and there are obviously young they're impressionable , so they're impressionable, so they're impressionable, so they're vulnerable . i see the they're vulnerable. i see the some of the doctors who fervently believe in this transgender ideology and believe that any display of the other gender is evidence that this person must be trans and must be must be transitioned and put on puberty blockers, which are a pathway 98, i believe. then go on to further hormones and surgery and all the rest of it. i think the danger is that they're actually converting , they're actually converting, getting people to trans and the conversion therapy ban would ban any therapist from having the difficult conversations that might that might stop people from from converting to trans. >> leo it's not just about trans issues. it's not just about trans people. this is an lgbt conversion therapy ban, which the government actually committed to in the 2019 manifesto. and i think it was actually quite disgraceful that we tried to u—turn that. we tried to u—turn on that. so i'm happy that i'm actually quite happy that we are seeing this come back into the policy sphere. do the policy sphere. but i do think that it's important that

there are mitigations to guard against unintended consequences . against unintended consequences. it's totally wrong. but with regards to be sent, but with regards to be sent, but with regards to be sent, but with regards to gay to be that regards to gay to be told that they're not but does that they're not gay. but does that happen? with that? >> yeah, of course. but that happened that happened in the 19505. happened that happened in the 1950s. yeah happened like 1950s. yeah it happened like last mean, on. does last week. i mean, come on. does that that happen in modern that does that happen in modern britain? >> yes. yes, it does. >> yes. yes, it does. >> does happen. but i do >> it does happen. but i do think that the unintended consequence of this kind of policy to mitigate policy are important to mitigate and banning and ultimately banning conversion is a threat conversion therapy is a threat to free speech. >> oh, well, come off it. >> oh, well, come off it. >> it's not conversion therapy. it's state sanctioned torture. and should be disgraced by and you should be disgraced by yourself for agreeing with benjamin. >> what if an individual would like to see? >> there's a reason why no straight has ever wanted straight person has ever wanted conversion to be gay. conversion therapy to be gay. it's not about them. it's about being they're wrong. being told that they're wrong. in place and you're in the first place and you're supporting torture of gay supporting the torture of gay people. the people. if you oppose the torture gay people . because, torture of gay people. because, as you know, jane, just jane just described after she had just described how after she had conversion and she's conversion therapy and she's been the of england been in the church of england her how she ended up

her whole life, how she ended up in because she'd been in a hospital because she'd been so as a so seriously ill as a consequence of that. you should be ashamed of yourself. >> okay. calling time. i'm >> okay. i'm calling time. i'm calling for some calling time. i'm off for some conversion. i will be still you. >> wonderful viewers, get to flummox the five and there is still time for your questions. >> so get them in now and we'll go through them at the very end. but next, though, our sales of trainers skyrocket while those of formal shoes decline will be asking, can't men dressed smartly anymore? likely you'll curse. why would anyone think that? i wonder, benjamin buttennorth, you're with the saturday five live on .

>> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> welcome back to the saturday five. we're going to talk about anissue five. we're going to talk about an issue close to all of our hearts, fashion or in this case, the lack of it. now, traditionally , men would wear traditionally, men would wear smart shoes. of course, i'm sure

a lot of you are used to seeing your dad, perhaps with smart shoes to the workplace . but shoes to the workplace. but recent sales figures indicate that actually we're becoming a nafion that actually we're becoming a nation of slobs . as people nation of slobs. as people strut around offices around the uk in trainers and other types of casual wear . trainers and other types of casual wear. now makers of formal footwear are losing millions a year. and even leading american politicians are strolling around the senate in shorts and trainers. is this an outrage ? are you outraged? leo outrage? are you outraged? leo i want to start with you. first of all. oh, i'm going to ingrid, actually, i'm to going the wonderful ingrid tarrant. actually, i'm to going the wonderful ingrid tarrant . so wonderful ingrid tarrant. so here to discuss and the lamentable decline in standards is the tv personality and broadcaster ingrid tarrant . broadcaster ingrid tarrant. ingnd broadcaster ingrid tarrant. ingrid men can't dress properly these days. what do you think's gone wrong? >> well, first of all, can i just ask you men to just put up put your best foot fonnard for me ? me? >> well, i mean , if i put my >> well, i mean, if i put my shoes up , i've got i have shoes up, i've got i have actually got a pair of trainers

on, i'm afraid. but leo's got lovely brown shoes on size 41. they're like bolts. ingrid well, actually , i've been looking at actually, i've been looking at your footwear , and 50% of you your footwear, and 50% of you are wearing trainers . are wearing trainers. >> so there's you and benjamin and albie and leo are wearing shoes. and albie and leo are wearing shoes . but on the whole , most shoes. but on the whole, most men are wearing trainers, and thatis men are wearing trainers, and that is the end, really kind of the end of the lovely polished shoe, which love, i have to say. and i'd you know, i know what started this. it has to be david beckham because he made all these trainers fashionable and everything and, you know, was looking . the figures are looking. the figures are absolutely shocking how much they've lost in revenue , £23 they've lost in revenue, £23 million in lost revenue by churches. remember, churches ? churches. remember, churches? yes. and trickers have lost £300,000 in the last year . so £300,000 in the last year. so they need to do like a thing with david beckham and get him to wear the lovely old brogues. and you know, get that back on

track. well you know, ingrid, actually, i read that tony blair used to wear a pair of church's shoes at prime minister's questions every week. >> so maybe that's what's done it for poor churches. >> oh, you're right. think of that. >> oh, you're right. think of that . oh, yeah. well, let's that. oh, yeah. well, let's blame him. >> and if we're saying tony blair is the sort of icon of fashion, then we're all just going off on a tangent to nowhere, aren't we? >> well, there's just absolutely no hope. but talking about footwear, which we started off because that was the story today, paper is rightly said in the senate also. the other thing is it's not just the shoes, it's the attire. i'm talking about men and just recently, well, on the 4th of october, to be precise, i feel like i'm going to be like a detective here taking notes on the 4th of december. the cardiff universe students union. um banned or a temporary ban , i should say, on temporary ban, i should say, on chinos and blue shirts because

of and quote, dangerous behaviour portrayed by groups of individuals wearing chinos and blue shirts in the. yolo. yolo is a nightclub few on the 4th of october. so now they've put a temporary ban on that. so i'm looking again at you guys and what you're wearing. i mean, leo, you look fantastic. he does on the court. if i was on the pull, i'd go for you. >> oh, well, there we are. >> oh, well, there we are. >> there we are. that's a ring. and endorsement. ingrid >> my time would you say. >> my time would you say. >> would you say actually that you would go as far as to say we need to start doing what that university and start university has done and start banning from wearing banning people from wearing these of clothing that are these items of clothing that are too relaxed ? too relaxed? >> no, because this was smart . >> no, because this was smart. >> no, because this was smart. >> that was smart. casual, right . okay. so you draw the line at trainers , though, or you draw trainers, though, or you draw the line trainers , the preppy- >> pfeppy- >> it was preppy- >> it was kind of the preppy look. i think it was . how dare look. i think it was. how dare you a privileged, preppy type you be a privileged, preppy type of ingrid , then of attitude. so, ingrid, then just to end on that, who is your ideal man to model the nation

on? well, tonight i'd say leo but, leo, you got me off the top there. >> leo. leo cursed. look at that. look at that thing. >> all right, ingrid, thank you very much for your time. >> i do appreciate it. that's ingnd >> i do appreciate it. that's ingrid tarrant there, the tv personality and broadcaster . personality and broadcaster. now, leo, i want to start with you. you don't normally dress so lovely, do you? you're in for a special. >> yeah . i had to film special. >> yeah. i had to film a special. >> yeah . i had to film a promo >> yeah. i had to film a promo before this show. not that this show isn't important to me, but i did dress up for the boys in a great shirt. >> oh, he is. >> oh, he is. >> but he doesn't normally make so much of an effort, what so much of an effort, is what i'm saying. so much of an effort, is what i'm it'sing. so much of an effort, is what i'm it's called the waist coat >> it's called the waist coat and the suit. >> i got married. i got married in this suit. oh, wow. did you actually. >> yeah. wow. and she's still with shocked? with you? are you shocked? shocked that he got married or that suit? that it was in that suit? >> both. >> both. >> i mean, look, it's lovely of ingnd >> i mean, look, it's lovely of ingrid to say you're the best dressed. if you look just out of shot. she guide dog, shot. she has a guide dog, though, so not quite the same. >> look, i actually ingrid >> look, i actually think ingrid

makes good point. we've makes a very good point. we've seen decline in the way men seen a decline in the way men dress. want see. i'm very dress. i want to see. i'm very attracted men that wear attracted to men that wear lovely and i think lovely suits. and i think i'd like see men walking like to see more men walking around suits. we see them around in suits. we see them nowadays track or even nowadays and track suits or even at office. you see you at the office. you see men, you know, longer a tie. i know, longer wearing a tie. i would to see more men dress would like to see more men dress more if you go would like to see more men dress moreto if you go would like to see more men dress moreto the if you go would like to see more men dress moreto the 19th if you go would like to see more men dress moreto the 19th century, u go would like to see more men dress moreto the 19th century, this back to the 19th century, this was normal. people even working class would dressed was normal. people even working clithis would dressed was normal. people even working clithis way. would dressed in this way. >> i mean, my granddad always used to he was down the pit and he used to always dress up in a suit he went out. so suit every time he went out. so it have tricky on the it must have been tricky on the top part. >> not the top whilst i go look for me top hat and tails. >> coming up next, we'll be answering questions answering your questions in flummox far more flummox the five. but far more importantly that will be importantly than that will be paying importantly than that will be paying tribute footballing paying tribute to footballing legend who legend sir bobby charlton, who sadly away you're sadly passed away today. you're with on

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five. now, before we finish the show, we wanted to pay tribute

to the legendary england footballer bobby charlton, who has passed away at the age of 86. so we're going to get more on this from the voice of sport here at gb news. aiden mcgee aiden. cheers very much for your company. we've lost one of england's greatest players of all time here, haven't we? >> good evening, darren, first of all, and to the rest of the saturday five crew. yes, that would be putting it mildly. i mean, there was a dwindling band of players still surviving from the 1966 triumph, and we're now just left with one, and that's sir geoff hurst. bobby charlton, though he was a stellar name throughout his career . and throughout his career. and consider everything. if we strip things the very things back to what was the very beginning him . he born beginning for him. he was born in north—east england in in the north—east of england in ashington, he grew up a ashington, and he grew up in a football family. the great jackie you'll be jackie milburn, who you'll be familiar with as newcastle familiar with as a newcastle united played local united fan, played for the local team. bobby, who you can see team. but bobby, who you can see in there and his man in the picture there and his man united shirt and brother united shirt and his brother jack, they to find

jack, they went off to find fame, fortune and success. jack at and bobby at at leeds and bobby over at manchester united. the of manchester united. the two of them really on them didn't really get on through, through periods of through, through vast periods of their professional lives, not just because they face each other the there were other on the pitch. there were family contend with family rivalry to contend with as if you think that as well. but if you think that bobby charlton part the bobby charlton was part of the busby babes of 1958, most of that team perished on the runway in munich when the team were on their way back from a european tie. european football was quite a fledgling thing back then. manchester united were kind of looked down for taking looked down upon for even taking part competition in. so part in the competition in. so that a that contained that was a team that contained players as players like duncan edwards as well as bobby charlton and they didn't actually get to fulfil what they were destined to do . what they were destined to do. and so to come back from that ten years later be part of that rebuild. darren and , and to rebuild. darren and, and to claim a european cup at wembley for manchester united against benfica for manchester united against benfica and the great eusebio under the twin towers was an extraordinary achievement. to my knowledge, he is the only engush knowledge, he is the only english player to have won both the world cup and the european

cup. you consider his numbers as well. 249 goals in 758 games for manchester united for england , manchester united for england, and it was 49 goals in 106 caps. that record was only broken in 2016 by wayne rooney. that has mean gary lineker got quite close to it in the early 90s, but this was in a period as well where midfielders didn't really score goals. he wasn't a striker. darren this is the important thing to consider here. was a sometimes a deep here. he was a sometimes a deep lying but he lying midfielder, but he actually a an actually got fonnard a lot in an era when midfielders weren't really score goals. really expected to score goals. and he's still surpassed and yet he's still surpassed that same terms of that all the same in terms of his life after football. well, don't underestimate the influence he had on david beckham's career. we saw in the netflix documentary that beckham's huge beckham's father was a huge fan of bobby charlton taught of bobby charlton and taught him to bobby to kick the ball like bobby charlton back garden. he charlton in his back garden. he was also part of the bobby charlton soccer school in charlton soccer school back in the actually won the the 80s. he actually won the thing unbelievably, was thing unbelievably, which was unheard a boy from unheard of for a boy from east london. he taken under london. but he was taken under the of bobby charlton, and the wing of bobby charlton, and beckham awe of beckham was clearly in awe of the and got to know him. the player and got to know him. of later on when he

of course, later on when he played, alex ferguson said played, sir alex ferguson said in clearly, many in his book, quite clearly, many times actually, that when things were bad for sir alex in were going bad for sir alex in the period united, the early period at united, probably 86 to 91, bobby charlton a director, stuck up charlton as a director, stuck up for at every single turn for him at every single turn because to somebody who because he knew to somebody who was doing the right in was doing the right thing in football and was extremely football and he was extremely loyal. counts loyal. sir alex ferguson counts on that friendship a great deal . on that friendship a great deal. don't forget as well, the influence he had over london 2012. i actually interviewed him at the laureus sports award in london we were both london 2012, and we were both living at the living in manchester at the time, in cheshire, time, both living in cheshire, not from each i not too far from each other. i think his house was probably slightly than mine slightly bigger than mine actually, but nonetheless he was. really discuss was. we didn't really discuss much football. much about football. we discussed about life and discussed stuff about life and he generous with his he was very generous with his time a very warm individual time and a very warm individual and absolute darren of and an absolute giant darren of engush english football and international english football and inteaiden nal to we english football and inteaidennal to we go english football and inteaiden nal to we go to >> aiden just to before we go to our next topic i just our next topic there, i just wanted you, some people wanted to ask you, some people feel actually we've lost feel that actually we've lost what was the very best generation of england's footie players. a different players. you know, a different breed, might gents breed, they might say true gents , do you think is that is that sadly true when see man sadly true when you see man

united with their black armbands and things like that, are you feeling a sense of greater loss ? feeling a sense of greater loss? >> remember, i'm old >> well, remember, i'm old enough to remember back in 1993, darren, when we lost sir bobby moore, captain that great moore, the captain of that great side. it was the late millwall chairman, reg burr, said to chairman, reg burr, who said to me phone when i was me over the phone when i was asking tribute, he said, asking for a tribute, he said, aiden, feels we've lost aiden, it feels like we've lost a to better era. 30 years a link to a better era. 30 years on, almost exactly 30 years on, i feel the same, actually. darren i'm sure you do as well. now that we have lost a link to a better era. and don't forget those still stand alone those players still stand alone in team as the side who in that 66 team as the side who won world cup. we've seen so won the world cup. we've seen so many then. we've many times since then. we've gone times, we gone close a few times, but we haven't picked up the haven't actually picked up the trophy are we closest to trophy. or are we closest to doing it closest to it now than we at time in the last we were at any time in the last ten, years? yes would say ten, 15 years? yes i would say so. crossing the line as so. but crossing the line as those guys did 66, remains is those guys did in 66, remains is unchartered territory for our current players. >> aidan thank >> indeed, aidan magee, thank you for that brilliant you very much for that brilliant tribute now, folks, all tribute there. now, folks, all the best. it's time to flummox the best. it's time to flummox the where you wonderful the five where you wonderful viewers set the agenda. so

cheers very much for sending in all your questions for us. i'm going to get the ball rolling with this question from sandy. now has written in and she now sandy has written in and she says, sunak rally the says, will rishi sunak rally the conservative party in time for the next general election or is he just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic? i think i've got to put that one to albie amankona. >> i think he can. i think he can get the conservative party in good fighting order for the next general election. look what people were hearing on the doorstep out in tamworth and in mid bedfordshire was that our voters didn't want to come out and they wanted a reason and vote. they wanted a reason to out and vote to come out and vote conservative, but they just weren't hearing one. so if they do good compelling do hear a good compelling conservative reason to vote for rishi sunak, i believe, i believe our voters will come back out to what are they? but we've got we've to give we've got to we've got to give them we've got to give. them one. we've got to give. >> exactly. exactly. that's the point. what are the point. leo, what are the conservative to vote for conservative reasons to vote for the party? conservative reasons to vote for the well, party? conservative reasons to vote for thewell, think party? conservative reasons to vote for thewell, think partyis kind >> well, i think rishi is kind of unfortunate i think of unfortunate because i think the reason to vote for the

conservatives like conservatives is that he's like the leader in a while the first leader in a while who's conned, competent who's been conned, competent and plausible lied and plausible and hasn't lied and hasn't great mess in a hasn't made a great mess in a short period of time. so, i mean, i trust that rishi is a leader, so it's a shame he's come in the end of a come in in the tail end of a conservative administration. >> i think he's up, you know, the titanic, comparison, the titanic, that comparison, is that i i think the >> yeah, i think i think the conservative party are just tired. they've been in too tired. they've been in power too long. around this long. we see this around this this point same thing happened to labour last round under to labour last time round under under tony blair. >> briefly, >> all right. very briefly, let's rishi sunak was let's not forget rishi sunak was chancellor lockdowns. >> he responsible for the >> he is responsible for the expansion the welfare state, expansion of the welfare state, the of public spending the expansion of public spending and quantitative and ultimately quantitative easing, which resulted in this economic mess. >> benjamin, i know what >> okay, benjamin, i know what you think that he is snookered. >> well, if this happens right after conference when he's had this big pitch to the country and new ideas, and and announced new ideas, and then that then the tories do that badly, that really doesn't . that really doesn't. >> was hardly a big >> well, it was hardly a big pitch. >> i think i'm with benjamin buttennorth on that one, but our next question from christian. next question is from christian. christian says lefties, we see we close open we cannot close our open southern it's not

southern border because it's not compassionate. how about we stop the boats? but simultaneously commit to extra monetary aid directly for countries people are fleeing from? well do you know what, christian? i've been struck by something today because i've seen a lot of people talking about palestine's rights to have secure borders and all the rest of it. but leo kearse they don't seem very keen on us having our own. >> yeah, exactly. and in fact, some people have been saying we should take in refugees from from you know, while, from gaza. and you know, while, you know, a really sympathised with their plight, i don't think given the rising levels of anti—semitism in the uk is the ideal to bring in hundreds ideal time to bring in hundreds of thousands of palestinians. all right. now next, though, we've got this question from robert. >> robert says, do you think our next pm should be under 40? i mean , reem does that. you're mean, reem does that. you're young. >> well, maybe then they'd solve the housing crisis. i mean , the housing crisis. i mean, really, you know, there is nothing . let's think about the nothing. let's think about the current situation. we've got huge amounts of intergenerational inequality.

we've got the triple lock on pensions, which effectively means i know a lot of our viewers won't this, but viewers won't like this, but unfortunately, means that 27% unfortunately, it means that 27% of are millionaires of pensioners are millionaires and they're unable to then go on to buy different houses. i just want to make this very small point. the housing crisis impacts last time buyers much impacts last time buyers as much as impacts first time buyers, as it impacts first time buyers, and it means that many of those family are not being family homes are not being opened up. >> hear that point, but >> and i hear that point, but i don't think the age of a politician denotes on whether or not they're going to be good on housing. true. housing. that's true. rishi sunak is 42. keir starmer is almost got the better? almost 60. who's got the better? who's got the better housing? the the the boomer politician versus the millennial just millennial politician. so i just want i would say that that's good. on housing, age does matter of the us's matter because half of the us's leaders dropping in post. >> well, that's it. >> well, that's it. >> now final question is >> well, that's it. >> nalice final question is >> well, that's it. >> nalice andial question is >> well, that's it. >> nalice and aliceestion is >> well, that's it. >> nalice and alice says, is >> well, that's it. >> nalice and alice says, what from alice and alice says, what do you think of a dress down friday work place? well, friday in the work place? well, i mean, we've got a dress down saturday. it seems like it seems like it's dress down every day these days. >> i mean, i wouldn't be i would be okay with a dress down friday

if monday to thursday was dress up. but unfortunately, that's not the case. >> but it libertarian to >> but is it very libertarian to be telling people what they should shouldn't should and shouldn't wear? well, if owned a company, i if i if i owned a company, i would be well within my right of freedom to tell freedom of association to tell my they should dress. >> but you're absolutely right. the government be the government shouldn't be doing i, can say doing that. but i, i can say that a cultural that from a cultural perspective. i would like to see people dressing better. >> mean. would you >> i mean. leo, would you advocate majesty's advocate his majesty's government printing off government actually printing off a and sending it a picture of you and sending it to and saying to every household and saying this standard. this is the standard. >> today wouldn't want >> only today you wouldn't want to other when i'm to see me on other days when i'm sitting sitting in sitting and sitting in my underpants. >> we're gonna to leave it there. >> what a perfect time to end the show. thanks very much to the show. thanks very much to the ibrahim and the wonderful reem ibrahim and leo being our guest leo kearse for being our guest tonight. and to all of our brilliant viewers. now, folks, the only dolan is the one and only mark dolan is next. fonnard to next. but we look fonnard to seeing next week. next. but we look fonnard to see bye next week. next. but we look fonnard to see bye . next week. >> bye. >> bye. >> hello there. welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. i'm craig snell. well, looking ahead to some day for much of the uk, it's going to be a dry day, especially for parts of

scotland and all of us should see some sunshine. we are still dominated area of low dominated by this area of low pressure, will continue to pressure, so we will continue to see risk some showers, see the risk of some showers, but certainly will lose the but we certainly will lose the heavy persistent rain which heavy and persistent rain which we over the few we have seen over the last few days. the of will move days. the last of that will move up parts of orkney and up into parts of orkney and shetland so of shetland overnight. so most of us seeing drier picture. still us seeing a drier picture. still the risk of some showers across western towards the western parts over towards the east could just see a few mist and fog patches forming and in the countryside could see temperatures falling into mid single figures . so we start single figures. so we start sunday off with potentially a few mist and fog patches, but they will quickly clear and then for it is a much drier and for many it is a much drier and brighter still, the of brighter day. still, the risk of some across western some showers across western parts. may well just creep parts. they may well just creep a little further east from a little bit further east from time to time. but basically the further east are, the further east you are, the greater chance of staying dry throughout temperatures throughout the day. temperatures in the north very similar to what we've recently, tends what we've seen recently, tends to 12 degrees, potentially up to about 15 degrees the south, about 15 degrees in the south, having heading into monday a dry start for most potentially a

frosty start actually for scotland as we go through the course of the day. outbreaks of rain will come close to parts of northern ireland. and then later on, we then see a band of rain working in across southern parts of that really sets of england and that really sets us for another unsettled us up for another unsettled spell towards the spell as we go towards the middle of the week

well . welcome to the show. well. welcome to the show. >> i'm about to give you the menu for the programme, but let menu for the programme, but let me tell you that tonight we will be remembering the sporting and british icon that is bobby charlton , a hero for england, charlton, a hero for england, a hero for manchester united, an irreplaceable figure who we have lost at the age of 86. so tonight's show dedicated to a true great britain, bobby charlton . it's 9:00 on charlton. it's 9:00 on television, on radio and online in the united kingdom and across the world. this is mark dolan

tonight. happy saturday. one and all in my big opinion with some towns missing their post for up towns missing their post for up to two weeks. royal mail has become royal mail . britain become royal mail. britain deserves a better postal service. postman pat would be spinning in his grave. my mark meets guest is the heroic leader of the canadian trucker convoy who stood up to vaccine tyranny dunng who stood up to vaccine tyranny during the pandemic. he tells us about his extraordinary fight for freedom in the big story. why are excess deaths in this country through the roof? we'll be debating that with andrew bridgen, mp , who finally managed bridgen, mp, who finally managed to get it debate in parliament yesterday. plus we hear the views of renowned nhs gp doctor david lloyd . you won't find this david lloyd. you won't find this debate happening anywhere else on british tv and you won't want to miss it and it might take a ten legendary four weddings and a funeral writer richard curtis has apologised for his politically incorrect movies and the fat jokes that were in them . the fat jokes that were in them. remember the good old days when films were allowed to be funny ?