in the been another huge week in the middle east as the israel—hamas war has continued, with some suggesting we could see a larger regional war if other powers get dragged in. that's certainly what the prime minister has been suggesting travels abroad suggesting in his travels abroad and closer to home. it's been a devastating week for the conservatives after those two by—election losses in both tamworth and mid beds today. there will of course be reflecting on all of that in the show today i'll be joined by robert jenrick , the immigration robert jenrick, the immigration minister. now what does he make of the scottish first minister? humza yousaf call for the uk to take in gazan refugees . and take in gazan refugees. and after those two by elections i'll be speaking to the former labour big hitter, sean woodward, who served, of course , woodward, who served, of course, in gordon brown's cabinet. now israel's former ambassador to the uk, daniel taub, will also join me live from gaza. and i'll also be joined by the former palestine representative to the uk , manuel hassassian. he's been

uk, manuel hassassian. he's been the he had been the representative of the palestinian authority for 15 years to this country . and with years to this country. and with this wednesday marking a year since, a year since the day rishi sunak became prime minister although to some it might feel a little bit longer than that. who better to speak to than the man who literally wrote the book on prime ministers? esteemed ministers? the esteemed political historian, sir anthony seldon? well that's all to come in the show , but first let's in the show, but first let's have a look. what's in the papers today. joining me now is the spectator columnist and former member of the european parliament, patrick o'flynn . parliament, patrick o'flynn. let's have a little run through of the papers first. so patrick, you've picked out the sunday times front page as as perhaps the most predominant story this morning. >> well, yes, in old fashioned newspaper man parlance , they've newspaper man parlance, they've got something of a marmalade dropper , something that kind of dropper, something that kind of arrests the attention of the average person over breakfast, i

would suggest, which is hamas chief lives in british council house. so sort of story that's really got everything and represents multiple failings by the british state. first of all, that this guy, mohammed kassim suella, got to britain then was able to get british citizenship, able to get british citizenship, able to get a council house, even able to buy the council house under the old discount scheme , saving over £100,000. scheme, saving over £100,000. and to top it all off, the house he's got is smack in the middle of london borough of barnet which is the, the borough where 1 in 5 british jews lives . so 1 in 5 british jews lives. so it's a really multiple shocking failure and underlines, i think , failure and underlines, i think, great public unease about our controls on exactly who comes to our country, whether they have our country, whether they have our country's interests at heart, and also whether they're able to access public resources

and welfare resources. i know that , for instance, the that, for instance, the government minister, neil o'brien recently put out a set. he said that 48% of the entire london housing council housing stock is now occupied by foreign born tenants . yes, which is born tenants. yes, which is quite astonishing in general that i think that will cause immense resentment among british taxpayers. but for us actually to have an enemy of the west , to have an enemy of the west, arguably of britain itself, obviously, and somebody who was quite a senior player in hamas, this isn't just a foot soldier, as it were. this is someone who's represented the group in trips to see vladimir putin that sat on its so—called polyp bureau. this is one of the main guys and to have him sort of sail through like this for a large number of years , make large number of years, make people think, you know, has this country either got a handle on its own security or any sense of

decency about supporting its own citizens and keeping them safe . citizens and keeping them safe. >> it's absolutely extraordinary because no doubt anyone sitting around the cabinet table would say this is a disgrace and shouldn't have happened . and of shouldn't have happened. and of course, to neil course, you point to neil o'brien, the government minister, , isn't it minister, saying, isn't it a disgrace that 48% of council housing is going to foreign born nationals, these are the nationals, yet these are the people in charge? >> yes. you'd think you'd think people in charge? >>1theyou'd think you'd think people in charge? >>1they wouldiink you'd think people in charge? >>1they would haveou'd think people in charge? >>1they would haveouhandle: people in charge? >>1they would haveou handle on that they would have a handle on this. would. there's this. you would. there's something going wrong, isn't there, the political there, between the political leadership the country . leadership of the country. there's no transmission mechanism . down to ideas and mechanism. down to ideas and policies and priorities being actually driven through on the ground. you know , something's ground. you know, something's gone badly wrong. and whether the tories have just taken their eye off the ball, whether there's been too much high pressure stuff going for on them to concentrate on boring things like delivery, well, like delivery, who knows? well, let's move on now the front let's move on now to the front page the mail, which is page of the mail, which is talking these middle east talking about these middle east regional tensions , the potential regional tensions, the potential for spill—over .

for spill—over. >> what do you make of this? >> what do you make of this? >> well, they have a very, you know, alarming headlines that were setting israel for a war were setting up israel for a war against iran. and they have an interview with i think it's nir barkat, the economy minister, where he is basically warning iran here, if you send hezbollah your proxy from lebanon into northern israel, spreading the war, then we'll strike back at you.so war, then we'll strike back at you. so it's a sort of deterrent comment, but i think it does very much underline the potential of the whole conflict to go regional and underlines iran's not very hidden primary role. you know, iran was looking at israel, normalising , having at israel, normalising, having relations with a lot of arab countries . and the next big one, countries. and the next big one, we were told, was saudi arabia. but by provoking a full on war between muslims and jews , iran between muslims and jews, iran has been able to scupper that because the feeling in the muslim world is currently a light against israel and has knocked that process back. so equally , the west is hoping that

equally, the west is hoping that iran public opinion is beginning to peel away from that regime. so i think that that is the real geopolitical game that's afoot. >> really fascinating context there, of course, for the prime minister's meetings , not just minister's meetings, not just with the leader of the palestinian authority and benjamin netanyahu, but also with saudi arabian leadership and with egyptian leadership. clearly worried about the wider effects in the region. we will march on fonnard, though, because tensions also in britain on the telegraph front page today talking about how police were are criticised for allowing jihad chant at protest. what's the what's the detail here? well it is pretty much thought that, you know, the that his book tahnr you know, the that his book tahrir group for instance, is proscribed organisation hamas supporting hamas as a terrorist organisation should be against the law and doing it in terms of let's have a jihad to wipe out. >> israel would seem to be

against the uk law, but the metropolitan police has put out a very wishy washy statements about this and what it looks like is simply that they feel they don't. i think , have the they don't. i think, have the physical capacity to impose the law of the land in central london on a saturday because there are so many in islamic radicals. you know, far left people supporting the palestinian cause in unqualified fashion. the really we've lost control of the streets and we've become a country where effectively hamas and its supporters can demonstrate at, for instance, next to the cenotaph with no comeback . and, cenotaph with no comeback. and, you know, and there's other stories as well. there's an instance of a tube driver leading chants in favour of palestine over the tannoy . you palestine over the tannoy. you know, we talk about a refuge crisis. it seems to me now we're getting to the point where a lot of jewish british citizens who live in london are feeling, you know, they may be leaving the

leaving the capital. i would suggest it's got to such either for another country or out into somewhere, which feels safer for them. and i think this is highly worrying for the government. the potential for a long ground war or a conflagration to feed into the really, really nasty clashes on the british streets , on the british streets, potential terror plots that will be clouding rishi sunak kind of horizon. and normally you expect a swing to the governing party. but i think keir starmer has has positioned labour very well on this issue. and if we have, for instance, people who've come over on the small boats who then get involved with islamist islamist activities, i think the buck stops there with the conservative party. yeah. >> really interesting how labour's seem to have neutralised. it's in its potential pitfalls. there with a number of people quitting the labour party in protest of starmer's stance on israel , i starmer's stance on israel, i should think that keir starmer is probably quite happy that those quitting .

those people are quitting. >> music as he is. >> yes. music to as he is. >> yes. music to as he is. >> we jump to tory >> should we jump across to tory to oil and the observer , which to oil and the observer, which has a story buried on page 15 about about the chancellor of the exchequer. what's this about? >> yes. so the political editor of the observer, toby helm, has got a story suggesting jeremy hunt will not fight the next general election . now, you would general election. now, you would expect that story to be on page 1 2, but it's on page 15. go 1 or 2, but it's on page 15. go into the detail. the sourcing is probably not the strongest that i've ever seen. and there's a there's a lot in the story which coincides with the liberal democrats having adopted their candidate and it's slightly got the whiff for me of a classic lib dem dirty tricks campaign. now that's not to say that jeremy hunt might not drop out at the 11th hour, but i think his story is coming about now . his story is coming about now. >> just we have not long left, but we should reflect on england's greatest, perhaps best reflected on the front page of the sun today . hey, sir, bobby the sun today. hey, sir, bobby

was such a hero to so many people . and this really does people. and this really does feel like the end of an era . feel like the end of an era. >> it absolutely does. you know, in the 1960s, england was known around the world for beatles around the world for the beatles and charlton . bobby's gone and bobby charlton. bobby's gone and bobby charlton. bobby's gone an incredibly modest, brilliant person who didn't see the need to go on about himself. you know , he wasn't covering himself in tattoos , was like modern tattoos, was like modern footballers. he wasn't kind of having scandals around wags. he was just a thoroughly decent human being and magnificent footballer. >> well, no. excellent words to end on there , i suppose. patrick end on there, i suppose. patrick o'flynn, thank you so much for talking us through the papers this morning. but let's now cross to here from this week's people's panel. olivia utley is in farnborough with the panel this week. and olivia, what questions have the panellists got for our guests today . got for our guests today. >> hello, tom. yes, i am here in sunny, but rather chilly hampshire this morning and i've got a fantastic people's panel who've got some really searching

questions for the politicians who you'll be interviewing later on. we're very lucky today to be hosted in the poppins cafe in the middle of farnborough. they do some great tea cakes. and i'm going to introduce you now to mcdermott , who's the manager of mcdermott, who's the manager of the cafe . and how do you feel the cafe. and how do you feel business is going slowing down? >> everything will be changed has changed after corona. you know, rent bill for everything . know, rent bill for everything. now price up and i hope so . now price up and i hope so. we'll be better soon. but we're feeling not good because people are salary . no inflation in are salary. no inflation in inflation. yeah. yeah >> i think that the problem with inflation is , is what you're inflation is, is what you're talking about and that seems to be causing big problems for talking about and that seems to be calbusiness problems for talking about and that seems to be calbusiness ownersrs for talking about and that seems to be calbusiness owners upor talking about and that seems to be calbusiness owners up and small business owners up and down country . let's let's down the country. let's let's hope the government can do something about it. but thank you so much for having us and your lovely cafe . i'm here today

your lovely cafe. i'm here today with ian and sharon . thank you with ian and sharon. thank you so much forjoining us so early so much for joining us so early on a sunday morning. and ian , on a sunday morning. and ian, i'm going to start with you. obviously, this has very obviously, this has been a very difficult sunak difficult week for rishi sunak with two crushing by—election defeats. is there anything that the conservatives could do at this stage to win your vote ? do this stage to win your vote? do you think the general election is lost for them? >> i think the election >> i think the general election is for i think they is lost for them. i think they probably are in for a good trouncing. frankly is there anything they could do? they could stop the boats , for one could stop the boats, for one thing. like they said they would . sign that . but there's no sign of that happening . so, no, i think happening. so, no, i think conservatives are finished. they've had their day. i think it's a pretty message. it's a pretty stark message. >> there . no saving >> there. no saving the conservatives as ian's conservatives as far as ian's concerned. and sharon , what concerned. and sharon, what about you? were talking about you? we were talking earlier that earlier and you said that that you're usually. you're a swing voter usually. have you decided what you're going to vote this time round ? going to vote this time round? >> i think i'm a bit on the edge at moment. stick at the moment. if they stick to the of what they say the policies of what they say they're going it's like, they're going to do, it's like, stop they're going to do, it's like, st°p everything stop the boats and everything else. then it may may swing. i

don't know. but at the moment i'm sort of on a cliff edge. don't know. but at the moment i'm sort of on a cliff edge . but i'm sort of on a cliff edge. but i'm sort of on a cliff edge. but i think the best thing they should do is start listening to what the public want, what the people want, and perhaps the government should be doing some people's panels rather like this. >> ian , we've got the >> ian, we've got the immigration minister robert jenrick coming on the show a little bit later. you've both mentioned stopping the boats as an area . ask the immigration an area. ask the immigration minister . minister. >> well , i'd minister. >> well, i'd like minister. >> well , i'd like to know what >> well, i'd like to know what his plans are. i just just oh, i think we're having a few little problems there with the connection in farnborough . connection in farnborough. >> but we did get the gist of much of what the people's panel was saying, particularly on stopping the boats. we'll be back with the people's panel, of course, a little bit later in the programme. but thank you to olivia for talking us through that there. let's turn now to

shaun woodward , the former shaun woodward, the former northern ireland secretary under gordon brown for what has been an interest ing week. shaun i know that you talk to senior figures in and around the labour party leadership and the labour party leadership and the labour party does seem to be rather aheadin party does seem to be rather ahead in the polls to extra ordinary by—election wins in the last week. is this a sign of things to come? are we heading for a 1997 style labour landslide . landslide. >> pretty good question, tom. and good morning to you. i think everybody needs to remember that we're probably a good year out from a general election happening, and i've been around for enough know that in for long enough to know that in a can change quite a year things can change quite dramatically . but i a year things can change quite dramatically. but i think what happened this week in those two by elections where a majority of 19,020 4000 were overturned , and 19,020 4000 were overturned, and is that probably we if we're

standing back and looking at things and saying what's likely to happen, i don't think this is any longer looking like the 1992 election when john major was up against neil kinnock, nobody quite knew who was going to win and john majorjust quite knew who was going to win and john major just managed to squeak back in and i actually ran that general election campaign lane for him . so i have campaign lane for him. so i have a pretty much a kind of good eye on that one. i think this is looking like 1997, something here is happening and listening to your people's panel just then , people are giving up on the conservative party in government and listening to the gentleman who your reporter was interviewing in the cafe , his interviewing in the cafe, his remarks, he thought that the party was going to get trounced . party was going to get trounced. and i have to say with huge respect to people who will be looking at this and trying to find a reason to justify how rishi can manage it, it's looking very hard to me for him to win this election. i suppose

it is a difficult position for the government to be in. >> but sir keir starmer has perhaps been a lucky general in the last two years. his opponents have run into big, big problems , whether it's the snp problems, whether it's the snp and their internal turmoil or indeed the conservative party and their civil war has the labour party done enough to distinguish sir keir starmer to bnng distinguish sir keir starmer to bring about positive votes for the labour party? or is this just secure winning by default look good question, tom. >> but i mean, you are a seasoned political analyst here and i think what you and i would be saying to each other is that basically in a general election, governments lose elections, oppositions never win them. it's a question of how badly the government loses and therefore how well the opposition wins . how well the opposition wins. now an opposition can contribute to its defeat and i would say that jeremy corbyn frightened people at the last general

election. so boris johnson did even better than people were expecting him to do . but what's expecting him to do. but what's happened now is that the cost of living crisis that again your panel referred to the problems that people are seeing in the nhs with 7.5 million people waiting for treatment, people if they have a cardiac arrest, probably quite unlikely in some parts of the country to have an ambulance in time before they die. these things are contributing to a sense that the government doesn't have answers and i think what that means is that you're seeing just like your people's panel, people talking about a cliff edge, if they're a swing voter . but they're a swing voter. but that's an interesting phrase, isn't it? a cliff edge isn't like nearly there. it's a massive jump. and i think what we're probably going to see is a victory for keir starmer . that victory for keir starmer. that is very big. but it will also be because the country's given up on 13 years of a conservative party which they think is economically bankrupt and yet

some big problems for a labour government. >> if it were to take office, it says it would stick more or less to tory spending limits. the big plan that labour has for the nhs is to spend a whole half of a% more on its budget. that's not going to fix the waiting lists. is the labour party setting itself up for just as unsuccessful? arguably a period of government giving these enormous international headwinds ? >> no, i think what the labour party is rightly doing is ensuring that you don't frighten people because most people are pretty intelligent out there. i mean, when i used to be the boss of that's life programme with esther rantzen, esther always used to say, assume that most people are incredibly smart and bright. they just don't have the information. so the information that the labour party is giving people is, look, it's to going take a long time to fix these problems. there's no sudden large amount of money to do it. we need to change some of our goals. we need, for example, to

move the nhs from something that's trying fix that's constantly trying to fix people, to trying to prevent them because being ill in the first doing cancer first place. so doing cancer scans on people at an early stage rather than waiting for them have stage four them to have stage four metastatic cancer . now that's metastatic cancer. now that's a very expensive thing to treat in here because we are short on time and i don't want to miss your view on this next very important subject, which is, of course, the situation in the middle east. >> you were northern ireland secretary overseeing the peace process in a difficult and previously war torn part of this country. what's your view on how there could possibly be peace now between israel and palestine ? we well, i always travel in hope, tom. >> i mean, i think if we travel only in despair, then we have a danger of fulfilling the worst of our imaginations and ultimately the fact that the rest of the world wants to engagein rest of the world wants to engage in the problems of the

middle east is the best sign of hope because they don't have a solution that works there. right now, because the situation both in israel and in gaza is so catastrophic , it's catastrophic catastrophic, it's catastrophic for all of those families, whether you're a mum in jerusalem or a mum in gaza , you jerusalem or a mum in gaza, you are terrified for what's happening to your family. are terrified for what's happening to your family . but happening to your family. but and i think this is a big but, the fact that we've seen the president of the united states fly in, the fact that we're seeing the involvement of saudi arabia, middle eastern countries, the fact that we're seeing european countries coming in to want to help us ultimately is a sign of hope, because ultimately, as we found in northern ireland, most people living in gaza living in jerusalem, tel aviv , don't want jerusalem, tel aviv, don't want this . and so long as most people this. and so long as most people don't want this, there's hope for a resolution. but it won't be tomorrow morning.

>> sign of hope. shaun woodward, former northern ireland secretary. we're secretary. i'm afraid we're going to have to leave it there. thank you so much, though, for your perspective . now, your views and perspective. now, don't we're to don't go anywhere. we're to going be speaking the going be speaking to the immigration robert immigration minister, robert jenrick,

welcome back. >> you're watching the camilla tominey show with me, tom hannood. now our next guest is robert jenrick, the immigration minister and of course, member

of parliament for newark . of parliament for newark. robert, thank you so much for joining us this morning. let's dive straight in with something that you have done this week. two days ago, you wrote to every chief constable in england and wales saying to refer people who have spoken out in support of the proscribed terrorist group hamas, to refer them to the home office to potentially revoke the visas of those who support this organisation . in how many people organisation. in how many people have been referred for? >> well, good morning, tom. yes, it's very important to me and the home secretary that people who spread hate or support proscribed terrorist organisations like hamas have no place in this country a visa is a special privilege . it's not an a special privilege. it's not an entitlement. and if you commit it, comments that create hate or spread anti—semitism, then you

forfeit that privilege and you should have that visa revoked and you should be expelled from the uk. i've written to all chief chief constables across the country saying that they should refer individuals that come to their attention to the home office . there is a legal home office. there is a legal process to be followed, but as and when we receive those, we will consider them. and if they meet the legal bar, then we will absolutely revoke and expel them and the first case is already under consideration in was that the first case or the first cases is should i should i take from that that one referral has been made? >> no , no. >> no, no. >> no, no. >> there have been a number of referrals. and the first cases are being considered by the home office. i can't comment on the individual cases, but please be individual cases, but please be in absolutely no doubt of how strongly we feel that those people who commit these crimes , people who commit these crimes, people who commit these crimes, people who commit these crimes, people who spread hate in our country , they should be removed. country, they should be removed. they shouldn't have a right to live in the uk and harm our citizens and british values .

citizens and british values. >> that was very clear. thank you for that. now, the jewish community in the uk particularly perhaps the jewish community in london, has been the victim of some terrible, terrible instances of open hatred on the streets of london. it's led some people to suggest that the remarks of your boss suella braverman perhaps weren't that wide of the mark when she suggested that multicol naturalism in the united kingdom has failed . has failed. >> well, firstly, we are going to do everything we can to support british jews and to fight anti—semitism . and that's fight anti—semitism. and that's why we've given further funding to the community security trust , to the community security trust, who helped to protect synagogues and jewish schools. that's why we're working closely with the police and the crown prosecution service to encourage them to rigorously and robustly enforce our laws so that individuals st giles' who fall below them are

brought to justice. but it's it is more than just a question of legality. as you say . it's also legality. as you say. it's also a question about value , values. a question about value, values. and some of the things we've seen over the course of the last two weeks do speak to a failure of some people in our country to live up to british values of civility and common decency and have shown that there are issues of integration in our country . of integration in our country. and it would be foolish of us to deny those or to bury our heads in the sand . we've got to in the sand. we've got to confront them head on and ensure that we are a united and cohesive society . cohesive society. >> we do those failures of integration and failures of some individuals to live up to the british values that you speak about, does that in your book reach the level of a failure of multiculturalism in. >> well, i think that the uk is broadly one of the most successful multiracial democracies in the world. but as

i say , we would be doing i say, we would be doing ourselves a disservice if we fooled ourselves into thinking that there weren't pockets of serious failure of integration and individuals who fall well below the standards that we should expect diverse diversity is not a strength in and of itself. it is good in moderation. but we've got to ensure that we can successfully integrate individuals into our country so that there is a common sense of what it is to be british and a common sense of british and a common sense of british values. that's what i want to see. and i think the pace of immigration action over recent decades has been too fast. and we've struggled as a country to do integration as well as we should have done. that, i think, is what suella braverman was saying. and i fully support her. well on from migration now to refugees, another part of your brief, because the first minister of scotland, humza yousaf, has

called on, has said that he would be willing and able for scotland to take in refugees from gaza. >> would the united kingdom do the same across the country ? the same across the country? >> well, i think that's premature. the first step is to help british nationals out of gaza and into safety. we're working extremely hard. the foreign office and the home office, to secure the safe passage of those british nationals working with egypt and other neighbouring countries thatis other neighbouring countries that is critical at the moment. the second task, of course , the second task, of course, alongside that is to get humanitarian aid into gaza and we've had the first welcome step in that regard yesterday with some trucks going through the rafah crossing, providing essential food and medical supplies. we've got to ensure that they aren't diverted by hamas and they have a history of doing that. we need to get more suppues doing that. we need to get more supplies through to gaza and i don't think that the first thing

we should leap to whenever there is a crisis in the world is migration. the uk should be a big hearted nation that plays an important role in supporting people in difficult situations . people in difficult situations. but usually it is best to do that through diplomacy and through development aid. >> now you say you say that it's premature to talk about this, but i note the uk , i note robert but i note the uk, i note robert jenrick that you're not ruling out non—british refugees out taking non—british refugees from gaza . from gaza. >> well, i say we don't have a plan to do that. and the point i just made was that i don't think that that is the right approach. what we should be doing is using the assets of the uk , which is the assets of the uk, which is our relationships with countries like egypt and israel and our development aid to support as many vulnerable people as possible in gaza rather than creating small schemes to privilege a small number of people. the priority is to get the british nationals out and humanitarian aid in in a way

which means it is not diverted and abused by the terrorist organisation hamas. well robert jenrick, that's all we have time for . for. >> but thank you very much for speaking to us here on gb news on the camilla tominey programme that was robert jenrick the immigration course immigration minister, of course as well. there is so much more to come this hour. and don't forget, of course, in this enormous in middle eastern enormous week in middle eastern politics, i'll be speaking to both former israeli both the former israeli ambassador to the united kingdom and former head of the and the former head of the palestinian diplomatic mission to the united kingdom as well . to the united kingdom as well. but before all of that, let's get your update sophia get your news update with sophia wenzler . wenzler. >> it's 1002. wenzler. >> it's1002. i'm sophia wenzler. >> it's 1002. i'm sophia wenzler in the newsroom. israel has issued an urgent warning to residents in northern gaza, telling them to move south. it follows another night of airstrikes with medical sources saying more than 50 palestinians were killed . leaflets and phone were killed. leaflets and phone

messages warn those who stay in the north could be seen as sympathisers with a terrorist organisation and are putting their lives in danger . their lives in danger. meanwhile, the united nations says a second convoy of aid could be delivered to gaza today. 23 trucks were allowed to enter the strip when the rafah crossing on the border with egypt was opened for a few hours yesterday . the un says 100 yesterday. the un says 100 trucks are needed each day to meet the essential needs of palestinians . as in ukraine, palestinians. as in ukraine, russian missiles have hit a postal distribution centre in the north—east of the country. six people were killed and a further 16 injured when the building in kharkiv was targeted overnight , president vladimir overnight, president vladimir zelenskyy posted a video on social media showing the extent of the damage. ukraine's air force also said its defence systems managed to destroy six russian drones and a cruise missile . parts of the uk are missile. parts of the uk are facing major floods following storm babet. the affected areas include yorkshire, scotland, east anglia and the east midlands. the environment agency

says there are three severe flood warnings in place in derbyshire , manchester united derbyshire, manchester united will open a book of condolence for fans at old trafford following the death of sir bobby charlton . he was a key member of charlton. he was a key member of england's world cup winning team in 1966. his family said he passed peacefully in the early hours yesterday after being diagnosed with dementia in 2020. united players wore a black armband for their game against sheffield united last night. the club says he will always be remembered as a giant of the game and former england manager sam allardyce paid tribute to his kindness. >> he was a great ambassador for manchester united and a great ambassador for football and england and such and such a kind person . i think that's what person. i think that's what everybody is tribute is. explain to what a great, great guy he was, what a contribution he made to football for england and for manchester united. and of course , as a youngster, i watched him in the world cup final on my black and white tv at the time,

all those years ago. but it was all those years ago. but it was a pleasure to know him. every time i went to old trafford, he'd and have chat with you. >> this is gb news across the uk on tv , in your car, on your on tv, in your car, on your digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's back to . tom now it's back to. tom >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show with me , tom tominey show with me, tom hannood. camilla is, of course, back in the hot seat next sunday. well, we've got lots more to cover on the programme today. i'll be speaking to daniel taub, the former israel ambassador to the united kingdom. and we'll also hear from his former counterpart, the former head of the palestine mission to the united kingdom with rishi sunak nearing a year in office, we'll also get the thoughts of sir anthony seldon , thoughts of sir anthony seldon, the man who's literally written the man who's literally written the book on every british prime minister since john major. well, except for liz truss, but who

knows? perhaps that's in the works. but first, after those two crushing by—election defeats for the tories, i'll get the thoughts of former tory bigwig national treasure and my gb news colleague michael portillo . colleague michael portillo. michael, thank you for joining us this morning. lovely to see you, tom. extraordinary by elections on thursday night, almost unprecedented , the scale almost unprecedented, the scale of these majorities , almost of these majorities, almost 25,000 vote majority in mid bedfordshire overturned in an instant . instant. >> but sorry , both those by >> but sorry, both those by elections had swings of more than 20, which is catastrophic. and we have seen in this parliament some of the greatest swings against the conservatives that have ever been recorded in our history . that have ever been recorded in our history. now, this is important because labour, to win the next general election, needs an extraordinary swing, even more than tony blair achieved in 1997. it needs to gain, i think, 124 seats in order to be the party with an overall majority .

party with an overall majority. see now what these by elections are telling labour is that this is possible . well, and what it's is possible. well, and what it's telling the conservatives is obviously first of all, that they face defeat. but also that after the uxbridge by—election, which the conservatives held on to when some conservatives thought that just by making some shifts of policy on, for example , environmental matters, that they could offer a new package to the electorate that would be attractive. it seems that in these by elections, there is no hint of success in that new strategy because rishi sunak did indeed make a lot of changes after uxbridge, and some of them seem to go down quite well with the electorate. but that is not reflected by—election reflected in the by—election results at all. >> interesting. it seems >> it's interesting. it seems like no what the like people, no matter what the government saying , just are like people, no matter what the gov inclined saying , just are like people, no matter what the gov inclined to saying , just are like people, no matter what the gov inclined to believe just are like people, no matter what the gov inclined to believe the. are not inclined to believe the government in terms of these transport projects in network north all the rest of it. north and all the rest of it. it's sort of it's sort of like people don't really want to give the government a hearing. they're sort of fed up. we they're sort of fed up. have we just reached that tradition , just reached that tradition, pendulum british

politics? >> i rather suspect we have. i should be asking that question myself on the next show after yours. but but certainly i had the feeling in 1996 when i was a cabinet minister that the government had made up i'm sorry that the public had made up its mind that the government was doomed and 1996 could be instructive because we've been listening a lot to the conservative party in the last 3 or 4 days saying, oh, look at the labour vote. >> it held. it's the tory >> it just held. it's the tory vote that collapsed, the vote that collapsed, not the labour grew in these labour vote that grew in these by yes but but by elections. yes but but i suppose the same could be said in the 1996 by elections that we saw. >> yes, i'm very amused that the conservatives point. conservatives make this point. so saying all so what they're saying is all that's happening all the that's happening is that all the people to vote people who used to vote conservatives not turning conservatives are not turning out to vote conservative again. well, okay, that is the case. well, okay, if that is the case. but that is as but but that is just as destructive. that the way destructive. that is the way that lose elections if the that you lose elections if the people vote for you people who used to vote for you don't vote for you any more, that's way you go to your that's the way you go to your doom. so think probably doom. and so i think probably the writing is on the wall. i mean, i would still expect a

narrowing polls narrowing of the polls between now election. now and the general election. that's what i would expect. but so conservatives, so many conservatives, it seems to a pretty defeatist to are now in a pretty defeatist mood. mean, i think when mood. i mean, i think when i think to 1996, i was busy think back to 1996, i was busy being a minister. i had the feeling it was a sort of closing down sale. i was i was defence secretary, so i was rushing around the world doing diplomacy, having a whale of a time because i thought that it wasn't going to last and how right i was. >> it's funny you mention rushing around the world doing diplomacy has diplomacy because where has rishi sunak this week? rishi sunak been this week? a whistle stop tour to israel , whistle stop tour to israel, saudi arabia, egypt . whistle stop tour to israel, saudi arabia, egypt. is this someone who is doing the traditional thing of when there's domestic problems at home, prime ministers and indeed other ministers do rather like the world stage. >> yes. and it's his closing down sale to at least that's probably what he thinks. yes. so, i mean, he has the opportunity to be involved in epic world events. this is considerably more attractive than cancel ing hs2. you know, it seems much more worthwhile .

it seems much more worthwhile. and when you go abroad, everybody is so nice to you. they're so respectful . they call they're so respectful. they call you prime minister. there are press conferences where people don't ask tiresome questions about you know, the misdemeanours of backbench members of parliament and so on. it is marvellous to abroad it is marvellous to go abroad and seriously see, you know, you may feel that you're doing good. i was defence secretary during the, the collapse of the former yugoslavia and the wars that followed there and i felt that i was doing good and surely rishi sunak going around the middle east he has something east feels that he has something to bring to the party. i think possibly particularly as a british prime minister with a dark skin. you know, he's a different sort of politician who may be able to play a different sort of role from the traditional british prime minister. absolutely fascinating that saudi that the leaders of saudi arabia, egypt and the palestinian authority all met with rishi sunak when none of those men met with joe biden over the same timeframe. yes. i mean, obviously , the united mean, obviously, the united states is in a particular position, but i mean, i

states is in a particular position, buti mean, i don't position, but i mean, i don't know what lies behind this. and i don't want to make too much of it, but let's just say anyway that rishi is having a diplomatic success. will this mean any difference at all to the general election result? no, it it, but it will make it will not it, but it will make some very interesting chapters in and in his biography and autobiography and it will make us think differently of rishi sunak when the time comes to assess his performance as prime minister there will now be a couple of important chapters about rishi the diplomat. >> really, really interesting stuff. michael portillo, thank you so much for talking us through those issues of through with those issues and of course join you for your course we will join you for your programme. watching programme. we'll be watching that soon this one ends. that as soon as this one ends. thank you. now on the other thank you. now on to the other issues today . let's go issues of today. let's go through to olivia in farnborough with our people's panel now, before the news we heard, of course , from labour's shaun course, from labour's shaun woodward and the immigration minister, robert jenrick . minister, robert jenrick. olivia, what have the panel made of what our guests have said so far ? i hello? far? i hello? >> yes, me and the people's

panel here in farnborough have been watching your politicians with eagle eyes. i've seen quite a lot of shakespeare , the head, a lot of shakespeare, the head, a lot of shakespeare, the head, a couple of nods, but let's find out what they have to think. ian, i'm going start with ian, i'm going to start with you. jenrick made it you. robert jenrick made it quite clear there that the uk at the moment isn't planning to take refugees in from israel take any refugees in from israel and gaza. do you think that's the right decision? >> do it's the right >> i do think it's the right decision. i think the british pubuc decision. i think the british public have plenty of public have had plenty of refugees . has had it not been refugees. has had it not been for the influx of the illegal immigrants over the channel then the british public might feel a little bit differently. but i think we've had enough. people are struggling to pay their bills. we really cannot afford any more. i don't think. >> thank you very much. another another bleak answer for our politicians . sharon, what about politicians. sharon, what about you?i politicians. sharon, what about you? i think i saw you shaking your head. >> yes , i think the uk should >> yes, i think the uk should bnng >> yes, i think the uk should bring them in from gaza to be on the basis is to me a refugee is

someone who's fleeing from a war, not somebody that's just getting on a dinghy. i think, what, 60% of males are just getting on a dinghy and coming over to britain to me, gaza shouldn't your side should be able to come over. >> so you think finding space for them? we should be making sure the boats go back. but taking in more legal refugees. thank you very much. that's an interesting way of putting it. ian, i'm to going go back to you there. tom was asking robert jenrick if he thinks that multi culturalism has failed and he didn't quite give a straight answer, but i think we sort of got what he was driving at. what do you make of question? do you make of that question? what you think? what do you think? >> failed is too strong >> i think failed is too strong a word but then again , i a word really. but then again, i wouldn't say it's been a roaring success. it it's somewhere in the middle. i mean, you look around at the different ethnicities in the uk and i suppose it's good that we as a

country can accommodate different different people . but different different people. but i don't think that there's been a lot of non integration of those different cultures and i think that's led to a lot of unrest in different pockets , you know? >> thank you. yes unrest that we've definitely been seeing on the on the streets of london over the last few days in particular. and what about you, sharon? feel that sharon? do you feel that that multiculturalism failed? yes multiculturalism has failed? yes >> yes, i do. i think it's failed on a big level. we all should just be able to . how can should just be able to. how can i put it? we should all sort of live together as one, not not whatever colour is skin or what religion you've got . we should religion you've got. we should just be able to live as a whole community. >> so. so you feel that there's a problem with immigrants integrating into this country? is that it? >> i think a lot of it is, because obviously you've got quite a lot of illegal immigrants coming in anyway, and the public is really getting

that side. i think that's what mainly it is. >> thank you very much. and final question for both of you. quick question. we don't have much time left, but robert jenrick talks a little bit there about the conservatives immigration policies, policies for illegal immigrant action. you before that you don't you said before that you don't think the conservatives immigration is working. immigration policy is working. have mind? haven't. >> i'm afraid not. they've had 13 years of this and prior to that, labour and we've just getting more of the same time after time. so no, i don't think it's working straight talking for me in there. >> and what about you, sharon? >> and what about you, sharon? >> i'm still on the fence. i'm still on that cliff edge. i think there both sides have got to do something pretty impressive for me to say. i'm going to vote for one. either one of them. >> thank you very much. so from both of our people's panellists here, it sounds like the conservatives and labour have quite a lot of work to do. if they want to win over our people's panels votes. thank you very much. thank you, john, for

having us and thank you to the wonderful poppins back to wonderful poppins cafe back to you the studio. you now in the studio. >> thanks, what >> thanks, olivia. what forthright we have on the forthright voices we have on the people's panel. always a delight to hear. now, don't go anywhere. after the break, i'll be speaking to a former representative to both the uk of both israel and the palestinian authority . it will be authority. it will be a fascinating series of discussion is back very .

patrick christys on gb news. i'm gb news radio . welcome

gb news radio. welcome back to the camilla tominey show my name is tom and i'm standing for in camilla. >> she's back next week . now i'm >> she's back next week. now i'm going to be speaking to a former representative to the uk of both israel and the palestinian authority. first, let's hear from daniel taub, who served as israeli ambassador to the uk from 2011 to 2015. he joins me from 2011 to 2015. he joins me from tel aviv. and thank you so much for making the time for us today, and i hope you're staying safe there in israel . well, safe there in israel. well, first of all, do you have a message for the british people this morning from israel and perhaps particularly for the jewish community in the united kingdom? hi tom. >> good to be with you. just to clarify, i'm speaking to you from jerusalem, not from tel aviv, just down the road, just down the road. um i think my message to the jewish community and to the general british

population is actually the same message we are going through. one of the darkest times that israel has had, but one of the one of the points of light is the absolute moral clarity that we are seeing from our friends and leaders throughout europe , and leaders throughout europe, the united states and so on. um, there's a tremendous amount, a tremendous amount of suffering and grief within israel. and we know that palestine is, are also suffering , but there is no , no suffering, but there is no, no equivalence, no no way of making a comparison between israelis who are doing everything they can to save the lives of israelis and limit the damage to civilians in the gaza strip. and hamas is a terrorist organisation that targets civilians in the israeli side and brutally abuses palestinians on the other side . so we really on the other side. so we really call for people to hold fast to that clarity at this point in time . time. >> there, of course, can be no equivalence made between the proscribed terror group hamas

and the democratic state of israel. there have, however, been criticisms of the way in which israel has been conducting its response , particularly when its response, particularly when its response, particularly when it comes to cutting off water and electricity supplies. politicians in the united kingdom have sort of flip flopped on their support for this measure. is it going too far , as you know, we have been far, as you know, we have been working very closely with the international community to try and make sure that supplies humanitarian access , reaches the humanitarian access, reaches the palestinians of the gaza strip, particularly in the south. >> but we're also aware that to date, in the 16 years since israel pulled out of every inch of the gaza strip humanitarian aid, and that's including european aid has been and abused by the hamas terrorist organisation . and i don't know organisation. and i don't know any any country that would continue to supply electricity to a territory where terror

organised nations are using that same electricity to build manufacture to and fire the missiles that's in firing on israeli civilians . israeli civilians. >> i suppose the problem here is it's so difficult to tell the embedded hamas terror groups within gaza from the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians . thousands of innocent civilians. and isn't it isn't that the crux of the problem that given the right of israel to defend itself and the strikes that have been made, there will, of course, be innocent civilians tied up in this? how does israel navigate that path ? that path? >> so, first of all, the crux of the problem, sadly, is that we have an iranian sponsor, a terrorist organisation embedded in the gaza strip, taking its own popular and hostage. but you're right, um , to focus on you're right, um, to focus on the fact that not only does it abuse our civilians, the atrocities that we've seen, the abuse of firing within abuse of firing people within shooting of people sight, shooting of people within sight, ambulances, in the gaza

ambulances, but in the gaza strip, claims have strip, it claims to have 100,000, 100,000 militants, none of them wear uniforms, none of them separate themselves from them separate themselves from the civilian population . in the civilian population. in those circumstances, we do everything we can to try and separate the civilians. we've been urging the civilians to move south so they'll be out of the area of entrenched terrorist occupation in their in the gaza strip. so sadly, we know that hamas is forcing many of them to stay. it's locking some of them up. i heard this morning that it is actually throwing away people's car keys. i mean, that's a horrendous situation , that's a horrendous situation, one, but we cannot allow this tactic to succeed. and we need to keep our minds on the fact that after this war is over, the situation not for just israelis, but for the people of gaza , will but for the people of gaza, will be infinitely better if hamas this terrorist brutal organisation , is not embedded organisation, is not embedded within this area . within this area. >> i suppose one of the problems here is that there is a genuine sense of fear from people in

gaza, perhaps people who have been driven to more extreme means because the progress towards a two state solution simply hasn't been being made in many ways things have been going backwards , as does israel. still backwards, as does israel. still believe in a two state solution in. >> so, tom, i think we need to get the history right here. you know, if you remember, israel pulled out of the gaza strip entirely at that time. there were no restrictions on the gaza strip. the border with egypt was run by an eu mission with the eu mission . you know, palestinians mission. you know, palestinians had had free, free passage of trade and so on and so forth. and it was only the fact that hamas used the territory that we put out, pulled out of to launch a repeated attacks against us that actually meant that that restriction were necessary. um the original plan when israel pulled out of the gaza strip was that was to lead to further

withdrawals to try and advance a peace treaty or peace arrangement between the israelis and palestinians. but i think you're right. when israelis look today and they see that every area that israel has pulled out of whether it's the gaza strip, whether it's in south lebanon, and we've pulled out in return for promises from the international community and the hope that the local populations will actually use this as an opportunity for prosperity and instead , we've seen the iranian instead, we've seen the iranian sponsored proxies actually using these areas as bases for repeated attacks against israel. ihave repeated attacks against israel. i have to say the prospects for further withdrawal don't look promising . promising. >> now, of course, you conduct id negotiations with the palestinian authority around the time of that withdrawal from gaza. time of that withdrawal from gaza . do you now see that gaza. do you now see that withdrawal all as a mistake , withdrawal all as a mistake, given it clearly led to the rise of hamas ? of hamas? >> if you remember , it didn't >> if you remember, it didn't immediately lead to the rise of hamas. you know, it was two years later the hamas actually

had a sort of fictitious win in elections. and then brutalised the regime through the palestinian authority. officials off the roofs and so on and so forth. the fact is, a peace will not keep itself a peace needs to be maintained with effort from both sides. sadly, we haven't seen the will from the palestinian authority to take a firm hand. both against the hamas terrorist organisation and against the indoctrination of its own children. sadly, we know that there are a generation of youngsters that have been taught that jihad, that suicide bombers, is one of the is one of the highest values mean it's a horrendous form of child abuse that you send your child to school and the people that are held up as its heroes are these jihadi suicide bombers. when we see young palestinians brought up to actually hold up construct lviv models of heroism , people lviv models of heroism, people who have tried to build their society rather than pull down ours. i think israelis will have a greater confidence in the

possibility of peace . possibility of peace. >> it seems peace in the middle eastis >> it seems peace in the middle east is a lot further away today than it was perhaps a month ago. ironically, it might well have been the march towards normalisation of relations with israel and surrounding countries and extension of those abraham accords that sparked this horrific hamas terror attack in the first place. likely promoted by iran . can you see in your by iran. can you see in your lifetime um any normalise ation, any, any de—escalation of the clear tensions that have come so forthright in the last two weeks. so i think we do have to hold fast to the possibility of hope. >> i mean, i think if you look in our region, one of the lessons that we can learn is that it's very hard to reach peace. but when you do reach peace, it's more resilient than you might have thought. peace, it's more resilient than you might have thought . we have you might have thought. we have peace treaties with egypt and with jordan, have held with jordan, which have held fast spring and fast despite the arab spring and all sorts of upheavals in the

region . we have, as you pointed region. we have, as you pointed out, tom, we have peaceful relations with a number of gulf states. we have a very important rapprochement process with saudi arabia , which may itself have arabia, which may itself have been part of the iranian calculus. it is so clear to anybody who who looks at the region that if you are fonnard looking, if you care about your children, peace brings such extraordinary dividends in terms of cooperation, in terms of shared resources. we just need to try and strengthen those people who care more about their children than destroying ours . children than destroying ours. >> well, daniel taub , thank you >> well, daniel taub, thank you so much for your participation in the program this morning . uh, in the program this morning. uh, live from jerusalem , not from live from jerusalem, not from tel aviv. as we originally said . tel aviv. as we originally said. uh, really interesting stuff there, but let's see if we can get the other side. the other perspective now from manuel hassassian , the former head of hassassian, the former head of the palestinian diplomatic mission to the united kingdom. he joins me this morning from copenhagen . thank you so much copenhagen. thank you so much for making the time for us this

morning. i do want to start off by putting to you directly, ali, a claim made there by daniel taub that that perhaps the palestinian authority has missed a trick by not getting a firm hand on on hamas, by not controlling the palestinian territory in a way that perhaps it should. has the palestinian authority been too weak on hamas ? >> the question is not being too weak or strong . what happened is weak or strong. what happened is that hamas was created actually by the consent of the israelis to concoct an alternative leadership to the plo, and that took place during the first intifada where hamas started , intifada where hamas started, you know, developing its military power, its political impact, its getting, you know, control of civil society to a certain extent. and

unfortunately , we in the year unfortunately, we in the year 2008, we had, you know , the coup 2008, we had, you know, the coup d'etat, which made hamas took over gaza and since then, the palestinian authority does not have any control over hamas. and of course, hamas acts as a military wing and we cannot control them. we have as plo succumbed to the fact that the political imposed on us to have peace with the israelis . so we peace with the israelis. so we went ahead with political accommodation and for the last 30 years, we have been talking about a two state solution and that two state solution. unfortunately lately has been now obliterated by the fact of the israelis building settlements and moving settlers. today we have 750,000 settlers in the west bank and the ongoing occupation in, you know, of the daily lives of the palestinians not making it easy by killing them. extrajudicial building

settler huts. and what have you had made it worse for the last 13 years. there had been a total stalemate in the peace process since the advent of netanyahu. nothing happened on the ground and we still, you know, hope for and we still, you know, hope for a two state solution . a two a two state solution. a two state solution cannot really be, in fact, implemented if we have non geographic contiguity in the west bank, where, you know, if you look at the west bank, it's like a swiss cheese map where where it is like archipelago islands with no geographical contiguity. how on earth can we have our you know, sovereign state with east jerusalem and let alone gaza, which has its own unique circumstances , to own unique circumstances, to have an independent state within the concept of the oslo agreement. so things are getting more difficult with the latest onslaught now on gaza , i don't onslaught now on gaza, i don't think there is a light at the end of the tunnel so far.

>> of course, what daniel taub was saying there was that israel's withdrawal ring from the west bank in the mid 2000 is what made or at least created from gaza. i mean, is what created the conditions whereby hamas could come about. and to that extent, a similar withdrawal from the west bank would risk a similar situation occurring on the other side of the country . three. does he have the country. three. does he have a point at well, actually, when they withdrew from gaza , it was they withdrew from gaza, it was a unilateral pullout. >> it was not negotiated by the palestinian authority in order to know exactly how to deal with it and how to connect that to the west bank. it was unilateral and once they moved, what they created is a besieged people. you know, every body, you know, i started talking about 13 years ago about open air concentration

camp in gaza . you know, i mean, camp in gaza. you know, i mean, the connection between gaza and the connection between gaza and the west bank was totally curtailed by the israelis. so there was no connection first and second, when the could it took place , the palestinian took place, the palestinian authority as an authority was not there anymore . so now we're not there anymore. so now we're not there anymore. so now we're not talking about factions being there, but and what have you. but we're talking about authority . so hamas is over. authority. so hamas is over. >> is it right to refer to given the particular history of the jewish people, is it right to refer to gaza as a quote unquote concentration camp? >> isn't that a bit of a crass comparison, given that one of the border is of gaza ? is with the border is of gaza? is with egypt an arab country which also refuses to open the border because it doesn't want to let in many, many gazans , refugees ? in many, many gazans, refugees? >> well, actually , egypt has the >> well, actually, egypt has the right not to accept refugees. that's they are sovereign and

they made their decisions and they made their decisions and they believe that, you know, opening the borders, meaning another displacement of the palestinians going into sinai, another extra burden for them. and they don't want their a sense of guilt of decimation. the entire palestinian people, through another nakba , which has through another nakba, which has been taking place since 1948. so the egyptians , jews out of the egyptians, jews out of political position, they don't want to be engaged in such a venture where eventually it will be attacked by the arab world, by the palestinians, by everybody, by opening the borders. it means that you are consenting to the fact of israel, to forcefully diaspora. 1 million palestinian, if not to a country , to the desert where a country, to the desert where they don't belong. they belong to gaza . it's their country. and to gaza. it's their country. and they have been totally besieged by the israelis since since 16

years. and that's why when we talk about open air concentration camp, where is the vent for the gazans to move ? vent for the gazans to move? they cannot move to egypt and they cannot go to israel . and they cannot go to israel. and how how do you want the 2.2 million people to survive such a besiegement for 16 years? so this created a certain kind of frustration in this created a certain kind of extremism . um, certain kind of extremism. um, about you know, having like hamas supporting hamas. but the entire palestinians in gaza are not supporting hamas. >> so some people might raise an eyebrow collective punishment on 2.2 million people because you have one portion, a militia that is controlling, you know , gaza is controlling, you know, gaza in order to collectively punish 2.2 million. >> and this is what israel is doing. >> so some people might raise an eyebrow as to why all the criticism is with israel for not

opening its border with gaza . opening its border with gaza. and almost no criticism at all is placed on egypt for precisely the same policy. i do want to move on to something that is affecting the united kingdom, though, because we have seen many, many protests in recent days, large marches . and one of days, large marches. and one of the chants that has been made by pro—palestinian protesters on these protests , this is from the these protests, this is from the river to the sea, palestine shall be free. a chant that seems to imply that these protests us want to wipe israel off the face of the map is that an appropriate chant to be making ? making? >> well, let me tell you this. i was 13 years ambassador to the uk and i have participated . in uk and i have participated. in half a million protesters. let me tell you. and you have to be very blunt about this , out of very blunt about this, out of

300,000, 299,000 are pakistani muslims , indian muslims, bengali muslims, indian muslims, bengali muslims, indian muslims, bengali muslims and what have you. so don't try to stigmatise from river to the sea . palestinians, river to the sea. palestinians, palestinians have accepted you know, a mini state on the borders of 1967. and that is our official position and our people have accepted that in the west bank and gaza. so we cannot try to say that we, the plo or what have you want palestine from the river to the sea. and that's my simple answer to you. >> and just quickly before we finish this interview , i want to finish this interview, i want to give you an opportunity to, of course, condemn the horrific attacks that we saw from hamas and would you perhaps, unlike some broadcasters in the united kingdom, declare these as terrorist attacks .

terrorist attacks. >> can i ask you a question? because you asked me a question. you didn't ask ambassador taub to condemn what state terrorism is inflicting today on gaza. and don't compare the occupied with the with the occupation, with the with the occupation, with the occupied, and don't try to put us, you know, all in a frame that we are terrorists as palestine, because there is a difference between the palestinian people who want peace and security . and there is peace and security. and there is a difference between the palestinian authority, which is the legitimate, legitimate representative of the palestinian people who believe in a two state solution, who have condemned violence all along the question is, can israel stop state terrorism on equal basis ? yes. equal basis? yes. >> now, of course, of course , i >> now, of course, of course, i did question the former israeli ambassador at length in terms of what would be a proportionate response and whether it was right or not to be cutting off

water or indeed electricity. i asked him detailed questions. there i know you haven't responded to the question in terms of whether or not this should be condemned as a terrorist attack. the actions of hamas two weeks ago , violence hamas two weeks ago, violence breeds violence and the situation in gaza was on a powder keg. >> and what happened basically is a retaliation on the daily atrocities that the israelis with the settlers are committing against our innocent civilians in the west bank in jerusalem , in the west bank in jerusalem, in the west bank in jerusalem, in gaza and what have you. so you want me to condemn violence while state terrorism 56 of occupation , killing people, occupation, killing people, extrajudicial . now you woke up extrajudicial. now you woke up to that. the other side is terrorists and violent and not israel , which terrorists and violent and not israel, which is an occupying power . i israel, which is an occupying power. i don't israel, which is an occupying power . i don't think israel, which is an occupying power. i don't think this is a fair question . fair question. >> okay. you don't think it's a fair question? that's clear enough. manuel hassassian ian, thank you so much for your time.

we really appreciate your perspective as well this morning. former representative of the palestinian authority to the united kingdom speaking there now this wednesday will mark a year since rishi sunak became prime minister. one year on, we'll get the thoughts of sir anthony seldon, the man who's written the book on every british prime minister since john major. it's cept for liz truss. but first, here's a look at the weather. >> good morning. welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. i'm craig snell. well, looking ahead to today is a much drier and brighter day right across the country, but especially so for scotland. we do have some showers contend with, showers to contend with, especially across more western parts. may at times just parts. they may at times just creep a little bit further east, but i think the further east you are, greater chance of staying dry throughout the day. are, greater chance of staying dry of throughout the day. are, greater chance of staying dry of theroughout the day. are, greater chance of staying dry of the sunshinethe day. are, greater chance of staying dry of the sunshine williay. are, greater chance of staying dry of the sunshine will also best of the sunshine will also be towards parts . could be towards eastern parts. could still be quite blustery at times across the very far north of scotland. and it's here where we probably see the most frequent showers. many

showers. and for many temperatures to temperatures very similar to what of days. what we've seen of recent days. so highs around 10 to so highs reaching around 10 to 12 across scotland, potentially up to about 15 degrees across the south coast england into the south coast of england into the south coast of england into the evening. any showers across england and wales generally fading away . we could see some fading away. we could see some showers just then moving into parts northern ireland as we parts of northern ireland as we go through the course of the night. across scotland night. but across scotland especially quite chilly, especially turning quite chilly, could touch of frost come could see a touch of frost come down south, actually down further south, actually some higher cloud just keeping temperatures up around 8 to 9 degrees. so we start monday off on a fairly dry note across the board. still the risk of some showery outbreaks of rain for northern ireland and maybe the very far north of scotland, but the best of sunshine on monday will across mainland parts of will be across mainland parts of scotland because later on in the day, and some day, some thicker cloud and some outbreaks of will arrive outbreaks of rain will arrive into the south coast of england. temperatures for most of us, again, very similar, around average for the time of year

company right through until 7:00 this evening. >> gb news is the people's . channel >> welcome back. this is the camilla tominey show and my name is tom hannood. camilla is back next week . well, we've had a next week. well, we've had a huge an array of guests so far this morning. but one thing that we haven't yet touched on is an anniversary that is coming up on wednesday . that is one year wednesday. that is one year since rishi sunak became the prime minister of the united kingdom. so who better to talk through this topic with than sir

anthony seldon , the esteemed anthony seldon, the esteemed political historian . he's political historian. he's written a biographer of every prime minister since john major except for liz truss. i suppose have to first ask you, sir anthony, is a biography of liz truss on the way or does 49 days perhaps not merit one? >> oh oh? it definitely merits one. i mean, it's fascinating how how could somebody who i think was very talented and who had more experience than most prime ministers coming to the office, she'd been around a lot. she knew what she wanted to do. how did it go so catastrophically wrong after just 49 days? this is a real story there. i mean, it's half a length of the shortest serving prime minister who was george canning with nearly 120 days at. and what happened ? i love it. and what happened? i love it. i mean, that's because i suppose i just love. oh, i don't know, british history . british history. >> so perhaps that's the next book on the way. but turning to

perhaps a longer term perspective, you wrote earlier this year that king charles, his perspective is wiser and deeper than that of rishi sunak or keir starmer. their horizons will always be tribal and short term . always be tribal and short term. why do you think it is that king charles is perhaps has that deeper and more substantial vision than either the leader of the labour party or or the prime minister ? minister? >> well, it's nothing against those two particular people, both of whom are, i think, obviously very talented. but king charles started thinking about the country and its place in the world and how to get the best out of education and health and the environment before either of those leaders were born. and so and he learnt from the very best in the land, one of the best in the world. the best may be who was his mother,

the queen, and that kind of mentoring really matters . so mentoring really matters. so that was the reason i said that. but look, i think that rishi sunakis but look, i think that rishi sunak is just coming into power on an impossible wicket and i think he's made some significant errors. but he's done some good things too. but above all, i don't think anybody would be doing any better than him. that's interesting and perhaps it leads some some analysis or pre analysis of what a first term. >> keir starmer administration might look like. >> keir starmer administration might look like . perhaps very, might look like. perhaps very, very similar to what we've seen over the last 12 months. but but you've also written this about rishi sunak that he has been micromanaging for too long and needs to think more strategically . he you say the strategically. he you say the best prime minister is have been inspirers and liberators, setting the direction on rather than getting tangled up in the little details. is that still

your view of rishi sunak ? your view of rishi sunak? >> well, he has tried, hasn't he , with his latest initiatives that the party conference scrapping hs2 and redistributing that money into regional transport and his decision on climate change and putting less immediate pain and pressure on on taxpayers is now and on drivers now. and his reforms to the a—levels i mean these are all good things but it falls short of telling a story. the great prime ministers i mean, we think of churchill, we think of clement attlee, we think of margaret thatcher, all had a story to tell. now the story he told at the party conference was quite a lot about his own personal story, which i think personally is admirable. he needed to tell a story, though, with real bite and purchase on the nation about why the conservatives uniquely are the party to take the country

fonnard for the next five years, and why labour are not. and he's missing that macro picture and the macro picture he alighted on was really to granular and to divisive. but i think it's very difficult for him. i think he's got many of the qualities is ironically were he to serve a second term, which i think now is less and less likely. i think he would blossom in time to be a really good prime minister, knowing what to do in power. but at the moment, coming into power when you are seven for nine down, if he's a cricket analogy or similar analogy with the rugby last night, you know, he just doesn't have a hope. >> it's so interesting to look at how rishi sunak is trying to pitch himself now as a new man as a change candidate. have we seen in the history of the office of prime minister ever such an audacious about turn

rebranding midway through a term to say that you should vote to stick with me if you want to change things? well the truth is, and this will come as a shock, horror to party strategists and pollsters, is that rebranding never works. >> you've either got it. i mean, we got thatcher at the beginning. we got blair at the beginning. we got blair at the beginning. we got churchill at the beginning. we got clement attlee, lloyd george. at the beginning, they didn't go in for rebrand fibre of rebrand because every fibre of their personality, their backstory, their life on earth tells a story. it's authentically true. and i think if rishi sunak could maybe been able to study more history, history is always something that the great prime ministers have an intuitive understanding of or indeed spent more time just to stand back and reflect on what his opportunity was taking over from that very low moment . after

from that very low moment. after liz truss , he could have come up liz truss, he could have come up with a more coherent story , with a more coherent story, which he then could have stuck to his five targets that he had were too micro and were obviously ill advised because he's not able to achieve them . he's not able to achieve them. we need to. it's about politics and success and politics. it's about emotion. it's about being able to get somebody . and it's able to get somebody. and it's hard at the moment to get what rishi sunak still more the conservatives stand for now . conservatives stand for now. they can still win it or labour could win with a minority or a small majority only. but it i think much of this is down to the opposition losing this general election rather than what rishi sunak does. i was rishi sunak had hold it very steady. i'd be much more optimistic, much more open and he's done really well on in the middle east, showing a quality

of leadership superior to biden . of leadership superior to biden. he's been bold. he's been courageous . why has he done courageous. why has he done that? because he's been listening to historians like john bew in number 10, always the historians are the people who understand how the system works, how the world works, what britain's opportunity is, and how to make the most of your position as prime minister. do not learn about it when you write your memoirs, learn about it before you open your mouth. >> first time. >> first time. >> of course, you must must read history. othennise you'll be doomed to repeat but you doomed to repeat it. but you obviously history . it's obviously read history. it's interesting, though, that you say that there hasn't been a prime minister who has had a successful rebrand and all of the great prime ministers have been who they were from the start. that made me think of a certain leader of the opposition who seems to have had several different positions since he entered frontline politics. first, pretending he was a corbynista to get elected by the labour party membership and now describing himself as the heir

to blair. does this pose problems for sir keir starmer? well, i think it does, and there have been two great challenger labour leaders in the last 70 years harold wilson , who was years harold wilson, who was superb at the job, took over from hugh gaitskell in 1963 and was just an extraordinary speaker . speaken >> he understood the nation , he >> he understood the nation, he understood the mood of the nation, and he articulated it and then tony blair again , an and then tony blair again, an extraordinary community hater and understanding of the nation. now, keir starmer is neither of them. he has flip flopped . but i them. he has flip flopped. but i think it's true that you can do that before you come to power. you can't. you can reinvent yourself as the opposition leader. it's much harder to do that once you're in number 10. as the prime minister. >> well, we only have 10s left, sir anthony, but i just want to ask in a word, who was your

favourite prime minister to write about? >> john major? that might come as a surprise , but i suppose he as a surprise, but i suppose he also has a very thick book. >> we have run out of time

good >> good morning and welcome to sunday with michael portillo luxuriate and a late morning lather of arts culture politics and good conversation . we'll and good conversation. we'll start with our weekly politics review examining the entrails of two seismic by elections for clues as to what might happen at a general election next year . a general election next year. labouris a general election next year. labour is celebrating the chancellor of the exchequer, jeremy hunt, is said to fear a portillo moment in the newly formed constituency of godalming and ash that means the humiliation of a cabinet minister being ousted from the commons , a phenomenon linked to commons, a phenomenon linked to my name after an unfortunate incident back in 1997. we'll look at the horrendous conflict in the middle east, where the death toll is bound to get worse. a ground invasion of gaza is, we're led to believe, imminent. are we speaking to a reservist, idf commander about that prospect ? and will the war that prospect? and will the war against hamas distract western attention from russia's invasion of ukraine? the biden administration and our own boris johnson seek to link the two