how they are operating is and how they are operating and using them. so we're confident we have good intelligence. but the realm of warfare is the it's not the known knowns. it's the unknowns . known knowns. it's the unknowns. unknown knowns. so we know that we have a brutal enemy. we don't know exactly what they're doing . know exactly what they're doing. we have a good grasp of their operational capabilities and we need to confront that. and remove that as if it was a tumour . tumour. >> former head of the palestinian diplomatic mission to the uk, manuel hassassian, says he still believes in a two state solution, even don't try to put us, you know, all in a frame that we are terrorists as palestinians . palestinians. >> there is a difference between the palestinian people who want peace and security and there is a difference between the palestinian authority , which is palestinian authority, which is the legitimate, legitimate represent relative of the palestinian people who believe in a two state solution, who have condemned violence all

along . the question is, can along. the question is, can israel stop state terrorism on equal basis? that's that's the question . question. >> witnesses also say they heard a blast and the sound of ambulances near the rafah crossing. it happened after a second convoy of aid was allowed to enter gaza yesterday . 20 to enter gaza yesterday. 20 trucks delivered supplies to the strip after the border with egypt was opened for the first time in two weeks. as in london and israel. solidarity rally is being held in trafalgar square . being held in trafalgar square. the bring them home protest is calling for the release of all hostages being held by hamas. earlier a man was arrested for allegedly shouting anti—semitic abuse from a car driving past. it comes after days of pro—palestine indian protests and claims some people have been inciting violence. immigration minister robert jenrick says the accusations are being taken seriously . seriously. >> i've written to all chief chief constables across the country saying that they should

refer individuals that come to their attention to the home office. there is a legal process to be followed, but as and when we receive those, we will consider them. and if they meet the legal bar, then we will absolutely revoke and expel them. and the first case is already under consideration . already under consideration. >> in other news, to danger to life . weather warnings have been life. weather warnings have been issued in england in the wake of storm babet a severe flood alerts are in place around the river idle near retford in nottinghamshire, which is expected to reach record levels. the number of people who've died dunng the number of people who've died during the storm has risen to four after police found the body of a woman in her 80s in chesterfield road , manchester chesterfield road, manchester united has opened a book of condolence at old trafford following the death of sir bobby charlton . the legendary charlton. the legendary footballer was a key member of england's world cup winning team in 1966. floral tributes and football shirts are being placed outside the manchester united stadium with his former club ,

stadium with his former club, saying he'll always be remembered as a giant of the game. fans have also been sharing their fondest memories of sir bobby. >> i saw him play maybe 20 times in the early 70s before he retired . the greatest player in retired. the greatest player in the world, really . i mean, he's the world, really. i mean, he's up there with pele. >> i'm very sad to see such a great man and a great footballer pass. >> i'm just shocked, really. you know , he'd been part of my life. know, he'd been part of my life. i get a bit choked while i've been growing up. you know, i've been growing up. you know, i've been following united and all the great things. it's always involves sir bobby charlton . involves sir bobby charlton. >> this is gb news across the uk on tv , in your car, on digital on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying, play gb news now it's time for the camilla tominey show .

show. >> a very good morning to you. it's 930 on sunday morning. i'm tom and welcome to the camilla tominey show. i'm presenting this week. but don't worry, camilla will be back in this seat next sunday. let's turn now to shaun woodward, the former northern ireland secretary under gordon brown for what has been an interesting week . shaun, an interesting week. shaun, i know that you talk to senior figures in and around the labour party leadership and the labour party leadership and the labour party does seem to be rather aheadin party does seem to be rather ahead in the polls . two ahead in the polls. two extraordinary by—election wins in the last week . is this a sign in the last week. is this a sign of things to come? are we heading for a 1997 style labour landslide . landslide. >> pretty good question, tom. good morning to you. i think everybody needs to remember that

we're probably a good year out from a general election happening , and i've been around happening, and i've been around for long enough to know in for long enough to know that in a things can change quite a year things can change quite dramatically . but i a year things can change quite dramatically. but i think what happened this week in those two by elections where a majority of 19,020 4000 were overturned , and 19,020 4000 were overturned, and is that probably we if we're standing back and looking at things and saying what's likely to happen, i don't think this is any longer looking like the 1992 election when john major was up against neil kinnock, nobody quite knew who was going to win and john majorjust quite knew who was going to win and john major just managed to squeak back in and i actually ran that general election campaign lane for him . so i have campaign lane for him. so i have a pretty much a kind of good eye on that one. i think this is looking like 97 something here is happening and listening to your people's panel just then, people are giving up on the conservative party in government and listening to the gentleman who your reporter was

interviewing in the cafe in his remarks, he thought that the party was going to get trounced . party was going to get trounced. and i have to say with huge respect to people who will be looking at this and trying to find a reason to justify how rishi can manage it, it's looking very hard to me for him to win this election. >> i suppose it is a difficult position for the government to be in. but sir keir starmer has perhaps been a lucky general in the last two years. is opponents have run into big, big problems, whether it's the snp and their internal turmoil or indeed the conservative party and their civil war. has the labour party done enough to distinguish sir keir starmer to bring about positive votes for the labour party? or is this just secure winning by default look good question, tom. >> but i mean, you are a seasoned political analyst here and i think what you and i would be saying to each other is that

basically in a general election government doesn't lose elections. opposition is never win them. it's a question of how badly the government loses and therefore how well the opposition wins . now an opposition wins. now an opposition wins. now an opposition can contribute to its defeat and i would say that jeremy corbyn frighten and people at the last general election . so boris johnson did election. so boris johnson did even better than people were expecting him to do. but what's happened now is that the cost of living crisis that again, your panel referred to the problems that people are seeing in the nhs with 7.5 million people waiting for treatment , people if waiting for treatment, people if they have a cardiac arrest, probably quite unlikely in some parts of the country to have an ambulance in time before they die. these things are contributing to a sense that the government doesn't have answers and i think what that means is that you're seeing just like your people's panel, people talking about a cliff edge, if they're a swing voter. but that's an interesting phrase,

isn't it? a cliff edge isn't like nearly there. it's a massive jump. and i think what we're probably going to see is a victory for keir starmer . that victory for keir starmer. that is very big. but it will also be because the country's given up on 13 years of a conservative party, which they think is economically bankrupt. >> and yet some big problems for a labour government. if it were to take office, it says it would stick more or less to tory spending limits. that's the big plan that labour has for the nhs is to spend a whole half of a% more on its budget. that's not going to fix the waiting lists. is the labour party setting itself up for just as unsuccessful? arguably a period of government giving these enormous international headwinds ? >> no, i think what the labour party is rightly doing is ensuring that you don't frighten people because most people are pretty intelligent out there. i mean, when i used to be the boss of that's life programme with

esther rantzen, esther always used to say, assume that most people are incredibly smart and bnght. people are incredibly smart and bright . they just don't have the bright. they just don't have the information . so the information information. so the information that the labour party is giving people is , look, it's going to people is, look, it's going to take a long time to fix these problems. there's no sudden large amount of money to do it. we need to change some of our goals. we need, example , to goals. we need, for example, to move from something move the nhs from something that's constantly trying to fix people to trying prevent them people to trying to prevent them becoming ill in first place. becoming ill in the first place. so doing cancer scans on people at an early stage rather than waiting for them to have stage four metastatic cancer . now four metastatic cancer. now that's a very expensive thing to treat in here because we are short on time and i don't want to miss your view on this next very important subject, which is, of course, the situation in the middle east. >> you were northern ireland secretary overseeing the peace process in a difficult and previously war torn part of this country. what's your view on how there could possibly be peace

now between israel and palestine ? we well, i always travel in hope, tom. >> i mean, i think if we travel only in despair, then we have a danger of fulfilling the worst of our imaginations and ultimately the fact that the rest of the world wants to engagein rest of the world wants to engage in the problems of the middle east is the best sign of hope because they don't have a solution that works there right now , because the situation both now, because the situation both in israel and in gaza is so catastrophic. it's catastrophic for all of those families. whether you're a mum in jerusalem or a mum in gaza, you are terrified for what's happening to your family. are terrified for what's happening to your family . but happening to your family. but and i think this is a big but, the fact that we've seen the president of the united states fly in, the fact that we're seeing the involvement of saudi arabia, middle eastern countries , is the fact that we're seeing european countries coming in to want to help ultimately , me is a

want to help ultimately, me is a sign of hope because as ultimately, as we found in northern ireland, most people living in gaza , living in living in gaza, living in jerusalem, tel aviv, don't want this. and so long as most people don't want this, there's hope for a resolution. but it won't be tomorrow morning. >> sign of hope. shaun woodward, former northern ireland secretary. i'm afraid we're going to have to leave it there. thank though, for thank you so much, though, for your views and perspective. now, don't go anywhere. we're going to the to be speaking to the immigration minister, robert jenrick, .

listening to gb news radio. >> welcome back. you're watching the camilla tominey show with me, tom hannood. now our next guest is robert jenrick , the

guest is robert jenrick, the immigration minister. and of course , member of parliament for course, member of parliament for newark . robert, thank you so newark. robert, thank you so much for joining newark. robert, thank you so much forjoining us this much for joining us this morning. let's dive straight in with something that you have done this week. two days ago, you wrote to every chief constable in england and wales saying to refer people who have spoken out in support of the proscribed terrorist group hamas, to refer them to the home office to potentially revoke the visas of those who support this organisation . how many people organisation. how many people have been referred ? have been referred? >> well, good morning, tom. yes, it's very important to me and the home secretary that people who spread hate or support proscribed terrorist organisations like hamas have no place in this country a visa is a special privilege. it's not an entitlement. and if you commit comments that create hate or or

spread anti—semitism, then you forfeit that privilege and you should have that visa revoked and you should be expelled from the uk. i've written to all chief, chief constables across the country saying that they should refer individuals that come attention to the come to their attention to the home office. there is a legal process to be followed, but as and when we receive those, we will consider them. and if they meet the legal bar, then we will absolutely revoke and expel them. and the first case is already consideration . an already under consideration. an was that the first case or the first cases? >> should i should i take from that that one referral has been made ? made? >> no, there have been a number of referrals and the first cases are being considered by the home office. i can't comment on the individual cases, but please be individual cases, but please be in absolute no doubt of how strongly we feel that those people who commit these crimes, people who commit these crimes, people who commit these crimes, people who spread hate in our country, they should be removed. they shouldn't have a right to live in the uk and harm our

citizens and british values that was very clear. >> thank you for that. now, was very clear. >> thank you for that . now, the >> thank you for that. now, the jewish community in the uk, particularly perhaps the jewish community in london, has been the victim of some terrible , the victim of some terrible, terrible instances of open hatred on the streets of london. it's led some people to suggest that the remarks of your boss, suella braverman perhaps weren't that wide of the mark when she suggested that multiculturalism in the united kingdom has failed i >> well, firstly , we are going >> well, firstly, we are going to do everything we can to support eight british jews and to fight anti semitism. that's why we've given further funding to the community security trust, who helped to protect synagogues and jewish schools. that's why we're working closely with the police and the crown prosecution service to encourage them to figour service to encourage them to rigour and robustly enforce our laws so that individuals who

fall below them are brought to justice. but it is more than justice. but it is more than just a question of legality . we, just a question of legality. we, as you say, it's also a question about values and some of the things we've seen over the course of the last two weeks do speak to a failure of some people in our country to live up to british values of civility and common decency , kwasi and and common decency, kwasi and have shown that there are issues of integration in in our country and it would be foolish of to us deny those or to bury our heads in the sand. we've got to confront them head on and ensure that we are a united and cohesive society. >> do those failures of integration and failures of some individuals to live up to the british values that you speak about , or british values that you speak about, or does that in your book reach the level of a failure of multiculturalism . multiculturalism. >> well, i think that the uk is broadly one of the most successful multiracial

democracies in the world. but as i say , we would be doing i say, we would be doing ourselves a disservice if we fooled ourselves into thinking that there weren't pockets of serious failure of integration and individuals who fall well below the standards that we should expect. diversity is not a strength in and of itself . if a strength in and of itself. if it is good in moderation , fine. it is good in moderation, fine. but we've got to ensure that we can successfully integrate individuals into our country so that there is a common sense of what it is to be british and a common sense of british values . common sense of british values. that's what i want to see. and i think the pace of immigration in over recent decades has been too fast. and we've struggled as a country to do integration as well as we should have done. that, i think, is what suella braverman was saying. and i fully support her. >> well on from migration now to refugees, another part of your brief because the first minister

of scotland, humza yousaf, has called on has said that he would be willing and able for scotland to take in refugees from gaza. would the united kingdom do the same across the country ? well, i same across the country? well, i think that's premature. >> the first step is to help british nationals out of gaza and into safety. we're working extremely hard, the foreign office and the home office, to secure the safe passage of those british nationals working with egypt and other neighbouring countries that is critical at the moment. the second task, of course , alongside that is to get course, alongside that is to get humanitarian aid into gaza. and we've had the first welcome step in that regard yesterday with some trucks going through the rafah crossing, provide essential food and medical supplies. we've got to ensure that they aren't diverted by hamas and they have a history of doing that . we need to get more doing that. we need to get more suppues doing that. we need to get more supplies through to gaza. and i

don't think that the first thing we should leap to whenever there is a crisis in the world is migration . the uk should be a migration. the uk should be a big hearted nation that plays an important role in supporting people in difficult situations. but usually it is best to do that through diplomacy and through development aid. >> now you say you say that it's premature to talk about this, but i note the uk, i note robert jenrick that you're not ruling out taking non—british refugees from gaza . well, i say we don't from gaza. well, i say we don't have a plan to do that. >> and the point i just made was that i don't think that that is the right approach . what we the right approach. what we should be doing is using the assets of the uk , which is our assets of the uk, which is our relationships with countries like egypt and israel and our development aid to support as many vulnerable people as possible in gaza rather than creating small schemes to privilege a small number of people. the priority is to get the british nationals out and

humanity an aid in in a way which means it is not diverted and abused by the terrorist organisation hamas . organisation hamas. >> well, robert jenrick, that's all we have time for. but thank you very much for speaking to us here on gb news on the camilla tominey program that was robert jenrick the immigration minister, course. well there minister, of course. well there is so much more to come this houn is so much more to come this hour. and don't forget, of course, in this enormous week in middle eastern politics, i'll be speaking to both the former middle eastern politics, i'll be speaki ambassadorle former middle eastern politics, i'll be speaki ambassador to former middle eastern politics, i'll be speaki ambassador to theier middle eastern politics, i'll be speaki ambassador to the united israeli ambassador to the united kingdom and the former head of the palestinian diplomatic mission to the united kingdom as well .

radio. >> now i'm going to be speaking to a former representative to the uk of both israel and the palestinian authority . see,

palestinian authority. see, first, let's hear from daniel taub, who served as israeli ambassador to the uk from 2011 to 2015. he joins me from tel aviv. and thank you so much for making the time for us today , making the time for us today, and i hope you're staying safe there in israel. first of all, do you have a message for the british people this morning from israel and perhaps particularly for the jewish community in the united kingdom ? united kingdom? >> hi, tom. good to be with you. just to clarify, i'm speaking to you from jerusalem, not from tel aviv, just down the road. just down the road. um i think my message to the jewish community and to the general british population is actually the same message we are going through one of the darkest times that israel has had, but one of the one of the points of light is the absolute moral clarity that we are seeing from our friends and leaders throughout europe , the

leaders throughout europe, the united states and so on. um, there's a tremendous amount, a tremendous amount of suffering and grief within israel. and we know that palestinia are also suffering , but there is no , no suffering, but there is no, no equivalence, no no way of making a comparison between israelis who are doing everything they can to save the lives of israelis and limit the damage to civilians in the gaza strip. and hamas is terrorist organisation that targets civilians in the israeli side and brutally abuses palestinians on the other side . palestinians on the other side. so we really call for people to hold fast to that clarity . we at hold fast to that clarity. we at this point in time there of course, can be no equivalence made between the proscribed terror group hamas and the democratic state of israel. >> there have, however, been criticisms of the way in which israel has been conducting its response , particularly when it response, particularly when it comes to cutting off water and electricity supplies. politicians in the united

kingdom have sort of flip flopped on their support for this measure. is it going too far , as you know, we have been far, as you know, we have been working very closely with the international community to try and make sure that supplies humanitarian access , reaches the humanitarian access, reaches the palestinians of the gaza strip, particularly in the south. >> but we're also aware that to date, in the 16 years since israel pulled out of every inch of the gaza strip humanitarian aid, and that's including european aid has been and abused by the hamas terrorist organisation. and i don't know any any country that would continue to supply electricity to a territory where terror organised nations are using that same electricity to build manufacture to and fire the missiles that's in firing on israeli civilians . israeli civilians. >> i suppose the problem here is it's so difficult to tell the embedded hamas terror groups

within gaza from . the hundreds within gaza from. the hundreds of thousands aren't civilians . of thousands aren't civilians. and isn't it isn't that the crux of the problem that given the right of israel to defend itself and the strikes that have been made, there will, of course, be innocent civilians tied up in this? how does israel navigate that path ? that path? >> so, first of all, the crux of the problem, sadly, is that we have an iranian sponsor, a terrorist organisation embedded in the gaza strip, taking its own popular and hostage. but you're right, um, to focus on the fact that not only does it abuse our civilians, the atrocities that we've seen, the abuse of firing people within shooting people sight, shooting of people within sight, ambulances, in the gaza ambulances, but in the gaza strip, it claims have strip, it claims to have 100,000, 100,000 militants, none of them wear uniforms, none of them separate themselves from them separate themselves from the civilian population . in the civilian population. in those circumstances, we do everything we can to try and separate the civilians. we've been urging the civilians to move south so they'll be out of

the area of entrenched terrorist occupation in their in the gaza strip. so sadly, we know that hamas is forcing many of them to stay. it's locking some of them up. i heard this morning that it is actually throwing away people's car keys. i mean , people's car keys. i mean, that's a horrendous situation , that's a horrendous situation, one, but we cannot allow these tactics to succeed. and we need to keep our minds on the fact that after this war is over, the situation not for just israelis, but for the people of gaza , will but for the people of gaza, will be infinitely better if hamas , be infinitely better if hamas, this terrorist brutal organisation , is not embedded organisation, is not embedded within this area . within this area. >> i suppose one of the problems here is that there is a genuine sense of fear from people in gaza, perhaps people who have been driven to more extreme means, because the progress towards a two state solution simply hasn't been being made in many ways things have been going backwards , as does israel. still

backwards, as does israel. still believe in a two state solution in. >> so, tom, i think we need to get the history right here. you know, if you remember, israel pulled out of the gaza strip entirely at that time. there were no restrictions on the gaza strip. the border with egypt was run by an eu mission with the eu mission . you know, palestinians mission. you know, palestinians had had free, free passage of trade and so on and so forth. and it was only the fact that hamas used the territory that we put up, pulled out of to launch a repeated attacks against us that actually meant that that restriction were necessary. um the original plan when israel pulled out of the gaza strip was that was to lead to further withdrawals to try and advance a peace treaty or peace arrangement between the israelis and palestinians. but i think you're right. when israelis look today and they see that every area that israel has pulled out of whether it's the gaza strip, whether it's in south lebanon, and we've pulled out in return

for a promises from the international community and the hope that the local populations will actually use this as an opportunity for prosperity and instead , we've seen the iranian instead, we've seen the iranian sponsored proxies actually using these areas as bases for repeated attacks against israel. ihave repeated attacks against israel. i have to say the prospects for further withdrawal don't look promising . promising. >> now, of course, you conduct bid negotiations with the palestinian authority around the time of that withdrawal from gaza. time of that withdrawal from gaza . do you now see that gaza. do you now see that withdrawal all as a mistake , withdrawal all as a mistake, given it clearly led to the rise of hamas ? of hamas? >> um, if you remember, it didn't immediately lead to the rise of hamas. you know, it was two years later the hamas actually had a sort of fictitious win in elections. and then brutalised the regime through the palestinian authority official off the roofs and so on and so forth. the fact is, a peace will not keep itself a peace needs to be maintained with effort from both sides. sadly, we haven't seen the will

from the palestinian authority to take a firm hand. both against the hamas terrorist organisation and against the indoctrination of its own children. sadly, we know that there are a generation of youngsters that have been taught that jihad, that suicide bombers, is one of the is one of the highest values mean it's a horrendous form of child abuse that you send your child to school and the people that are held up as its heroes are these jihadi suicide bombers. when we see young palestinians brought up to actually hold up construct models of heroism , people who models of heroism, people who have tried to build their society rather than pull down ours, i think israelis will have a greater confidence in the possibility of peace . possibility of peace. >> it seems peace in the middle eastis >> it seems peace in the middle east is a lot further away today than was perhaps a month ago. than it was perhaps a month ago. ironically, it might well have been the march towards normalisation of relations with israel and surrounding countries and extension of those abraham accords that sparked this

horrific hamas terror attack in the first place. likely promoted by iran in can you see in your lifetime any normalisation, any any any de—escalation of the clear tensions that have come so, so forthright in the last two weeks? so i think we do have to hold fast to the possibility of hope. >> i mean, i think if you look in our region , one of the in our region, one of the lessons that we can learn is that it's very hard to reach peace. but when you do reach peace, it's more resilient than you might have thought. we have peace treaties egypt and peace treaties with egypt and with jordan, which have held fast the arab spring and fast despite the arab spring and all sorts of upheavals in the region . we have, as you pointed region. we have, as you pointed out, tom, we have peaceful relations with a number of gulf states. have a very important states. we have a very important rapprochement process with saudi arabia , which may itself have arabia, which may itself have been part of the iranian calculus. it is so clear to anybody who who looks at the region that if you are fonnard

looking, if you care about your children, peace brings such extraordinary dividends in terms of cooperation, in terms of shared resources. we just need to try and strengthen those people who care more about their children than destroying ours . children than destroying ours. >> well, daniel taub , thank you >> well, daniel taub, thank you so much for your participation in the program this morning, live from jerusalem , not from live from jerusalem, not from tel aviv. as we originally said . tel aviv. as we originally said. really interesting stuff there. but let's see if we can get the other side. the other perspective now from manuel hassassian , the former head of hassassian, the former head of the palestinian diplomatic mission to the united kingdom. he joins me this morning from copenhagen . thank you so much copenhagen. thank you so much for making the time for us this morning. i do want to start off by putting to you directly, lee, a claim made there by daniel taub that that perhaps the palestinian authority has missed a trick by not getting a firm

hand on on hamas, by not controlling the palestinian territory in a way that perhaps it should. has it the palestinian authority been too weak on hamas ? weak on hamas? >> the question is not being too weak or strong . what happened is weak or strong. what happened is that hamas was created actually by the consent of the israelis to concoct an alternative leadership to the plo, and that took place during the first intifada where hamas started , intifada where hamas started, you know, developing its military power, its political impact, its getting, you know, control of civil society to a certain extent. and unfortunately , we in the year unfortunately, we in the year 2008, we had , you know, the coup 2008, we had, you know, the coup d'etat, which made hamas took over gaza . and since then, the over gaza. and since then, the palestinian authority does not have any control over hamas . and have any control over hamas. and of course, hamas acts as a military wing and we cannot

control them . we have as plo control them. we have as plo succumbed to the fact that the political reality imposed on us to have peace with the israelis. so we went ahead with political accommodation and for the last 30 years we have been talking about a two state solution and that two state solution. unfortunately lately has been now obliterated by the fact of the israelis building settlements and moving settlers. today we have 750,000 settlers in the west bank and the ongoing occupation , you know, of the occupation, you know, of the daily lives of the palestinians not making it easy by killing them. extrajudicial building settler huts. and what have you had made it worse for the last 13 years, there had been a total stalemate in the peace process . stalemate in the peace process. yes. since the advent of netanyahu , nothing happened on netanyahu, nothing happened on the ground . and we still, you the ground. and we still, you know, hope for a two state

solution, a two state solution cannot really be, in fact, implemented if we have non contiguity in the west bank where, you know, if you look at the west bank, it's like a swiss cheese map where it is like archipelago islands with no geographical integrity. how on earth can we have our you know, sovereign state with east jerusalem and let alone gaza, which has its own unique circumstances , to have an circumstances, to have an independent state within the concept of the oslo agreement. so things are getting more difficult with the latest onslaught now on gaza , i don't onslaught now on gaza, i don't think there is a light at the end of the tunnel so far. >> of course, what daniel taub was saying there was that israel's withdrawal ring from the west bank in the mid 2000 is what made or at least created from gaza. i mean, is what created the conditions whereby hamas could come about. and to

that extent, a similar withdrawal from the west bank would risk a similar situation occurring on the other side of the country . ms3 does he have the country. ms3 does he have a point at. >> well, actually, when they withdrew from gaza , it was withdrew from gaza, it was a unilateral pullout. it was not negotiated by the palestinian authority . in order to know authority. in order to know exactly how to deal with it and how to connect that to the west bank. it was unilateral . and bank. it was unilateral. and once they move , what they once they move, what they created is a besieged people. you know , everybody you know, you know, everybody you know, i started talking about 30 years ago about open air concentration camp in gaza. no i mean, the connection between gaza and the west bank was totally curtailed by the israelis . so there was no by the israelis. so there was no connection. first and second, when the coup d'etat took place , when the coup d'etat took place, the palestinian authority, as an authority was not there anymore .

authority was not there anymore. now, we're not talking about factions being there, but and what have you. but we're talking about authority. so hamas is over. >> oven >> is it right to refer to, given the particular history of the jewish people, is it right to refer to gaza as a quote unquote concentration camp? >> isn't that a bit of a crass comparison, given that one of the borders is of gaza ? is with the borders is of gaza? is with egypt an arab country which also refuses to open the border because it doesn't want to let in many, many gaza refugees ? in many, many gaza refugees? well actually, egypt has the right not to accept refugees . right not to accept refugees. >> that's they are sovereign . >> that's they are sovereign. and they made their decisions and they believe that, you know , and they believe that, you know, opening the borders, meaning another displacement of the palestinians going into sinai, another extra burden for them. and they don't want their a sense of guilt, of decimation .

sense of guilt, of decimation. the entire palestinian people, through another nakba, which has been taking place since 1948. so the egyptians out of political position , they don't want to be position, they don't want to be engagedin position, they don't want to be engaged in such a venture where eventually it will be attacked by the arab world, by the palestinian, by everybody, by opening the borders. it means that you are consenting to the fact of israel, to forcefully diaspora. 1 million palestinian, if not to a country , to the if not to a country, to the desert where they don't belong. >> and just quickly, before we finish this interview , i want to finish this interview, i want to give you an opportunity to, of course, condemn the horrific attacks that we saw from hamas and would you perhaps, unlike some broadcasters in the united kingdom, declare these as terrorist attacks . terrorist attacks. >> can i ask you a question?

because you asked me a question. you didn't ask ambassador taub to condemn what state terrorism is inflicting today on gaza. and don't compare the occupied with the with the occupation, with the with the occupation, with the occupied, and don't try to put us, you know, all in a frame that we are terrorists as palestine, because there is a difference between the palestinian people who want peace and security . and there is peace and security. and there is a difference between the palestinian authority, which is the legitimate, legitimate representative of the palestinian people who believe in a two state solution, who have condemned violence all along the question is, can israel stop state terrorism on equal basis ? equal basis? >> yes, of course. of course . >> yes, of course. of course. >> yes, of course. of course. >> i did question the former israeli ambassador at length in terms of what would be a proportionate response and whether it was right or not to be cutting off water or indeed electricity. i asked him detailed questions. there i note

you haven't responded to the question in terms of whether or not this should be condemned as a terrorist attack. the actions of hamas two weeks ago , violence of hamas two weeks ago, violence breeds violence and the situation in gaza was on a powder keg. >> and what happened basically is a retaliation on the daily atrocities that the israelis with the settlers are committing against our innocent civilians in the west bank in jerusalem , in the west bank in jerusalem, in the west bank in jerusalem, in gaza and what have you. so you want me to condemn violence while state terrorism 56 of occupation , killing people, occupation, killing people, extrajudicial . now you woke up extrajudicial. now you woke up to that. the other side is terrorists and violent and not israel , which terrorists and violent and not israel, which is an occupying power . i israel, which is an occupying power. i don't israel, which is an occupying power . i don't think israel, which is an occupying power. i don't think this is a fair question . fair question. >> okay. you don't think it's a fair question? that's clear enough. manuel hassassian ian, thank you so much for your time. we really appreciate your perspective as well this morning

we well, we've had a huge array of guests so far this morning. but one thing that we haven't yet touched on is an anniversary thatis yet touched on is an anniversary that is coming up on wednesday . that is coming up on wednesday. thatis that is coming up on wednesday. that is one year since rishi sunak became the prime minister of the united kingdom. so who better to talk through this topic with than sir anthony seldon , the esteemed political seldon, the esteemed political historian . he's written historian. he's written a biographer of every prime minister since john major except for liz truss. i suppose have to first ask you, sir anthony, is a biography of liz truss on the way or does 49 days perhaps not merit one? >> oh oh? it definitely merits

one. i mean, it's fascinating how how could somebody who i think was very talented and who had more experience than most prime ministers coming to the office, she'd been around a lot. she knew what she wanted to do. how did it go so catastrophically wrong after just 49 days? this is a real story there. i mean, it's half the length of the shortest serving prime minister who was george canning with nearly 120 days. and what happened? i love it. i mean, that's because i suppose i just love. oh, i don't know , british history . know, british history. >> so perhaps that's the next book on the way. but turning to perhaps a longer term perspective, you wrote earlier this year that king charles is perspective is wiser and deeper than that of rishi sunak or keir starmer. their horizons will always be tribal and short term . always be tribal and short term.

why do you think it is that king charles is perhaps has that deeper and more substantial vision than either the leader of the labour party or or the prime minister ? minister? >> well, it's nothing against those two particular people, both of whom are, i think, obviously very talented. but king charles started thinking about the country and its place in the world and how to get the best out of education and health and the environment before either of those leaders were born. and so and he learnt from the very best in the land. one of the best in the world. the best maybe. who was his mother? the queen, and that kind of mentoring really matters. so that was the reason i said that. but look, i think that rishi sunakis but look, i think that rishi sunak is just coming into power on an impossible wicket and i think he's made some significant errors, but he's done some good things too. but above all, i don't think anybody would be

doing any better than him. that's interesting. >> and perhaps it leads some some analysis or pre analysis of what a first term keir starmer administration might look like. perhaps very, very similar to what we've seen over the last 12 months. but but you've also written this about rishi sunak that he has been micromanaging for too long and needs to think more strategically . he you say more strategically. he you say the best prime minister is have been inspirers and liberators, setting the direction on rather than getting tangled up in the little details. is that still your view of rishi sunak ? your view of rishi sunak? >> well, he has tried, hasn't he , with his latest initiatives that the party conference scrapping hs2. that the party conference scrapping hs2 . and scrapping hs2. and redistributing that money into regional transport and his decision on climate change and putting less immediate pain and pressure on on tax payers now

and on drivers now. and his reforms for the a—levels, i mean , these are all good things, but it falls short of telling a story. the great prime ministers, i mean, we think of churchill, we think of clement attlee, we think of margaret thatcher, all had a story to tell. now the story he told at the party conference was quite a lot about his own personal story, which i think personally is admirable. he needed to tell a story, though, with real bite and purchase on the nation about why the conservatives uniquely are the party to take the country fonnard for the next five years, and why labour are not. and he's missing that macro picture and the macro picture he alighted on was really to granular and to divisive. but i think it's very difficult for him. i think he's got many of the qualities is ironically were he to serve a second term, which

i think now is less and less likely. i think he would blossom in time to be a really good prime minister, knowing what to do in power. but at the moment, coming into power when you are seven, party for nine down. if he's a cricket analogy or similar analogy with the rugby last night, he just doesn't have a hope. >> it's so interesting to look at how rishi sunak is trying to pitch himself now as a new man as a change candidate. have we seen in the history of the office of prime minister ever such an audacious about turn rebranding midway through a term to say that you should vote to stick with me if you want to change things ? change things? >> well, the truth is , and this >> well, the truth is, and this will come as a shock horror to party strategists and pollsters, is that rebranding never works . is that rebranding never works. >> you've either got it. i mean,

we got thatcher at the beginning. we got blair at the beginning. we got blair at the beginning. we got churchill at the beginning. we got clement attlee, george . at the attlee, lloyd george. at the beginning, they didn't go in for rebrand fibre of rebrand because every fibre of their personality, their backstory, their life on earth tells a story. it's authentic , tells a story. it's authentic, fully true. and i think if rishi sunak could maybe been able to study more history, history is always something that the great prime ministers have an intuitive understanding of or indeed spent more time just to stand back and reflect on what his opportunity was taking over from that very low moment . after from that very low moment. after liz truss , he could have come up liz truss, he could have come up with a more coherent story , with a more coherent story, which he then could have stuck to his five targets that he had were too micro and were obviously ill advised because he's not able to achieve them . he's not able to achieve them. we need to. it's about politics and success and politics. it's

about emotion. it's about being able to get somebody and it's hard at the moment to get what rishi sunak still more the conservatives stand for a. hello there. >> welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. i'm craig snell. well, looking ahead to tonight, for most of us it should be largely dry, but it's going to turn quite chilly. could see some icy patches could even see some icy patches across north. that's all across the north. that's all down to this ridge of high pressure, which is just building in for a brief settling in for a brief time, settling the down all albeit very the weather down all albeit very briefly. you see, this briefly. as you can see, this next of low pressure just next area of low pressure just waiting out in the atlantic. so as we end sunday, most of us will a largely dry and will end on a largely dry and clear the risk of a clear note. still the risk of a few showers across some western parts, but under clear parts, but under the clear skies, especially across parts of far north of of scotland, the far north of england, could just see a few england, we could just see a few icy so just aware icy stretches. so just be aware if out and about and

if you are out and about and just take a little extra just take a little bit extra time journeys. so we time on your journeys. so as we start monday most of us start monday morning, most of us starts off on a fairly bright note, few mist and fog patches note, a few mist and fog patches possibly first thing. but for most us it's going to be most of us it's going to be a largely and bright day risk largely dry and bright day risk of at times for of some rain at times for northern maybe the far northern ireland. maybe the far west wales, southwest england west of wales, southwest england too. and time the best too. and all the time the best of the sunshine up across of the sunshine really up across parts and for most parts of scotland. and for most of temperatures throughout of us, temperatures throughout the very to what the day very similar to what we've weekend into we've seen over the weekend into tuesday. a very different day for a large part of the uk, rather cloudy with some outbreaks of rain. some of that rain potentially be fairly rain could potentially be fairly heavy eastern of heavy across eastern parts of england , burst of sunshine into england, burst of sunshine into the down towards the afternoon, down towards southwest england and actually a good scotland today and good part of scotland today and largely really largely dry. but that really sets us for an unsettled sets us up for an unsettled middle part of the week . middle part of the week. temperatures generally around average is what you get for breakfast is something that if we do our jobs right, you will wake up to news that you didn't know the night before. >> it's a conversation. it's not just me and eamonn. >> we want get to know you

>> we want to get to know you and want to get to know and we want you to get to know us six. us from six. >> it's breakfast with eamonn and isabel monday thursdays and isabel monday to thursdays on gb news, britain's news channel

>> i'm lisa hartle in the gb news room. gaza has been hit with a fresh strike of fresh wave of airstrikes . a number of wave of airstrikes. a number of explosions have been seen after israel issued a warning to residents to leave the area . residents to leave the area. leaflets were dropped in the north of the strip, saying if they stayed there , life was in they stayed there, life was in danger and they may be identified as terrorists sympathisers. earlier, prime minister benjamin netanyahu told troops the war against hamas is do or die for his country. troops the war against hamas is do or die for his country . a do or die for his country. a second convoy carrying humanitarian aid had to abort a delivery into gaza. earlier,

witnesses say they heard a blast and the sound of ambulances near the rafah crossing yesterday. 20 trucks delivered supplies to the strip after the border with egypt was opened for the first time in two weeks. in london. and israel, solidarity rally was held earlier in trafalgar square. the bring them home protest called for the release of all hostages being held by hamas. the israel defence forces now says there are 218 people being detained in gaza . the being detained in gaza. the earlier a man was arrested for allegedly shouting anti—semitic abuse from a car driving past. it comes after days of pro—palestine minion protests and claims that some people have been inciting violence. immigration minister robert jenrick says the accusations are being taken seriously . being taken seriously. >> i have written to all chief, chief constables across the country saying that they should refer individuals that come to their attention to the home office . there is a legal process office. there is a legal process to be followed, but as and when