named is that the right decision? i can tell you that one has split opinion . and over one has split opinion. and over in wales, the welsh parliament has been criticised for potential plans to allow men who self—identify as women to get themselves onto their all women quotas, which are designed to encourage, you guessed it, more women into parliament as the welsh gone mad? or is this basically the right move? and king charles, he is off to kenya and he's under pressure to apologise for the horrors of the past. apologise for the horrors of the past . should he? you tell me . past. should he? you tell me. yes, we have got a lot to get through. tonight's feisty debate

coming your way. but before we get stuck into all of that, let's cross for the live headunes let's cross for the live headlines with aaron armstrong . headlines with aaron armstrong. >> very good evening to you. it's minute past six. i'm aaron armstrong, the israeli prime minister says there will be no ceasefire in gaza and that this is a time for war. but benjamin netanyahu promised to stand against the forces of barbarism until victory is achieved , until victory is achieved, describing hamas as part of an axis of evil being formed by iran, he added, even the most just wars have unintended civilian casualties, and he argued, israel's ground operation creates the possibility of getting hostages out because hamas only reacts to pressure, describing october the seventh as a turning point . seventh as a turning point. >> israel will not agree to a cessation of hostilities with hamas after the horrific attacks of october 7th. calls for a ceasefire are calls for israel to surrender to hamas, to

surrender to terrorism, to surrender to terrorism, to surrender to terrorism, to surrender to barbarism that that will not happen . will not happen. >> well, the israeli government has also confirmed 14 british nationals were among those murdered during the hamas attacks on the 7th of october. two others are still missing and they may still be hostages in gaza. they may still be hostages in gaza . meanwhile, the israel gaza. meanwhile, the israel defence forces say a female soldier has been rescued. private ori megadisc was freed dufing private ori megadisc was freed during a ground operation in gaza and has been reunited with her family . gaza and has been reunited with her family. hamas has also posted a video of three hostages being held asking for a palestinian prisoner swap. their relatives who've seen the footage say the proof of life gives them hope. it feels good to know that some of them are okay and i don't i can't say what this video means , but to what this video means, but to see that there is a chance that

our beloved people are alive gives us a lot of hope to see the deal still alive . the deal still alive. >> and we haven't given up on them yet. we know they're alive and we're going to do anything we can to bring them back . and we can to bring them back. and we're not going to stop here. >> the home secretary has described pro—palestinian protests across the uk as hate marches earlier today , the marches earlier today, the government and the police held an emergency cobra meeting to discuss the threat of terrorism unked discuss the threat of terrorism linked to the israel hamas conflict. the meeting follows a rise in anti—semitic and islamophobic incidents across the country since the 7th of october. suella braverman is urging police officers to take a zero tolerance approach . zero tolerance approach. >> as we've seen now, tens of thousands of people take to the streets following the massacre of jewish people. the single largest loss of jewish life since the holocaust. chanting for the erasure of israel from the map. to my mind , there's

the map. to my mind, there's only one way to describe those marches as they are hate marches . what the police have made clear is that they are concerned that there's a large number of bad actors who are deliberate operating beneath the criminal threshold in a way which you or i or the vast majority of british people would consider to be utterly odious . be utterly odious. >> the conservative mp paul bristow, has been told to leave his government job as a parliamentary private secretary at the department for science , at the department for science, innovation and technology. after urging rishi sunak to back a permanent ceasefire in gaza, downing street says his comments are consistent with the principles of collective responsibility in other news, the police officer charged with murder following the fatal shooting of chris kaba will be named publicly. shooting of chris kaba will be named publicly . the officer's named publicly. the officer's named publicly. the officer's name and date of birth will be made public on the 30th of january. their home address, or any image of them, cannot be published. mr kaba died when he was shot through the windscreen of a car in south—east london last year. i'm afraid . say more

last year. i'm afraid. say more wet weather is set to bring disruption to several parts of the country ahead of the arrival of storm kieran this week. there's potential for flooding and transport disruption in northern ireland amid an amber rain warning and heavy rains also expected in the south and southeast england . the met southeast of england. the met office warning of winds up to 90 miles an hour in some areas . miles an hour in some areas. just stop oil activists who climbed a motonnay gantry on the m25 five have avoided jail to protesters were handed suspended sentences for deliberately defying an injunction, while a further ten others were not given any penalty after a high court judge found they weren't aware of the injunction by just stop oil protest organisers . it stop oil protest organisers. it comes as 62 activists were arrested at a demonstrate in london this morning after lying down on the road near parliament square . this down on the road near parliament square. this is gb news on tv, on digital radio and on your smart speaker too. that's it for me. now it's over to . michelle

me. now it's over to. michelle >> thanks, aaron. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00. alongside me, the deputy leader of the reform party, ben habib, and the former labour adviser, scarlett mccgwire. good evening to both of you. nice to see you. you know the drill as well, don't you? you can get in touch with me in all the usual ways. vaiews@gbnews.com is how you get hold of me. or you can tweet me at gb news. now now, i have to say, one of the conversations that everybody is having, one of the most important topics is here on the streets of this country, of course, is what's going on in relation to the, i would say, increasing conflict. now with israel and hamas. suella braverman, she has been speaking out today. let's just have a little listen to what she had to say . had to say. >> as we've seen now, tens of thousands of people take to the streets following the massacre of jewish people. the single largest loss of jewish life since the holocaust . chanting

since the holocaust. chanting for the erasure of israel from the map . to my mind, there's the map. to my mind, there's only one way to describe those marches . they are hate marches . marches. they are hate marches. >> well, i can tell you right now that that description has really divided opinion. what do you make of that description? accurate or inflammatory or your thoughts on that? but when it comes to actually policing extremism , there's been a lot of extremism, there's been a lot of focus and conversation about whether or not we've got the balance right. where do you stand on it? >> well, i completely endorse everything suella braverman just said, and it's so refreshing to have a member of cabinet calling these things out unequivocally . these things out unequivocally. she made a brilliant speech on how multicolour terrorism in this country was failing in washington. and a few weeks ago and i'm delighted to see her following up absolutely , following up absolutely, unequivocally at the moment on this issue . so there can be no this issue. so there can be no way to describe what we've seen on the streets of london other than an incitement to obliterate israel. and that is a hate

crime. and i disagree with the metropolitan police that it's not clear when they said jihad what they meant. they said emphatically , we calling for an emphatically, we calling for an intifada between london and gaza to wipe israel off the map. there was a leader of a group who whose name i couldn't pronounce actually until scarlet gave me a tip on how to say it. but it the english version, the way to remember it is to say hizb ut—tahrir and if you say that fast enough, it has a slightly comical meaning. but anyway, this chap who heads up hizb ut—tahrir, which is an organisation that is banned in very many muslim countries but somehow tolerated in the united kingdom, was asking people to decide which side of the battle they were on because one side was going to be victorious and people would be held to account. this is happening on the streets of london. this is illegal. there is no new law required. it's illegal under the racial and religious act 2006 and a

whole load of other acts as well. and you know, we've seen this, haven't we, michel ? all this, haven't we, michel? all when it suits the metropolitan police to make arrests for example, people protesting against lockdowns, people laurence fox advocating that those cameras ulez cameras should be taken down. they act in force. if you if you have there was that wonderful lady who was praying in silence outside an abortion clinic and she was arrested and yet you've got over 100,000 people on the streets of london advocating the obliteration of a nation which is an ally of the united kingdom. and no action is taken. and i find that absolutely offensive. suella spot on now. >> i mean, can we get some facts into this ? right. most of those into this? right. most of those people who were who were on the march were not calling for the obliteration of israel. i think it's really, really important to say that most of the people who are pro—palestine who actually

believe in a two state solution right . that believe in a two state solution right. that is that believe in a two state solution right . that is that there is a right. that is that there is a palestinian and an israeli and an israeli state. it is unfortunate that at the moment the people running israel , in the people running israel, in particular netanyahu , do not particular netanyahu, do not believe in a two state solution. right. and are doing their best. i mean, netanyahu actually encouraged hamas because it would split the palestinians so let's have that. most of those people . people. >> and you said let's deal in facts, scarlett. where's your evidence to suggest netanyahu was was promoting hamas, which, by the way , does not believe in by the way, does not believe in a two state system either. its stated policy is from the river to the sea. >> i'm not. what i'm saying is , >> i'm not. what i'm saying is, is i could find you the quote. i mean, he's made no secret of it is that the thing about hamas is a terrorist organisation . there a terrorist organisation. there is absolutely no question about that. what happened to that massacre was unforgivable and inexcusable. i'm not saying anything about hamas. what i'm saying is that netanyahu, which

is why there is such divisions in israel , is is why there is such divisions in israel, is that is why there is such divisions in israel , is that netanyahu has in israel, is that netanyahu has made no secret. right. that he thinks encouraging hamas split the palestinians because because of because of fatah. but can i say, it's really, really important that we get this right. most of those people on that march , i mean, i would have that march, i mean, i would have said 99% do not support hamas. most of those people on that march support a two state solution and they are worried about the palestinians and being worried about the palestinians does not make you anti—israel. absolutely >> but if you're calling for jihad, if you're calling for an intifada between london and gaza, if you're calling for the wiping out of the state of israel , all you need to be israel, all you need to be arrested. the head of this his butts are rare is going around completely unabashed , disclosing completely unabashed, disclosing his cards completely and not being taken to task at all by law enforcement. yet a woman praying in silence in her head outside an abortion clinic can

be arrested. and how that tells you that tells you how politicised the police are. >> i know, i know. and that's what the people who who , who who what the people who who, who who are anti—monarchy found out on the day of the coronation. how many people were arrested? 70 were no charges were arrested. okay. no charges made. i mean, yes, the police the police decide every day what they want to do. but it isn't always it isn't always on my side or your side. i mean, they can be all over the place. and the reason the woman was arrested was because there's a buffer zone for abortions. right. is that actually outside abortion clinics, you are not allowed to go too close because it really , really upsets the it really, really upsets the women going in there. but to do a perfectly legal thing, standing there silently, it doesn't matter. it doesn't matter. but she was standing there trying to , you know, there trying to, you know, respond to the people having the abortion, which is not not really permitted in that zone. >> but let's get back on the topic. you say, scarlett, that majority of people on majority of those people on those are peaceful. those marches are peaceful. laura hiding. they want

laura beddow hiding. they want a two solution. fine for the two state solution. fine for the minority of people that are not peaceful, that don't want a two state solution, that absolutely do want to see jewish people obliterated. i mean , there's obliterated. i mean, there's it's in russia. so i don't want to try and frighten people by suggesting that anything similar is happening here because it's not. you see those not. but when you see those scenes of that airport , it's scenes of that airport, it's disgraceful. i've got some of that footage . that footage. >> it was absolutely disgraceful what happened in that airport. i mean, whether mean, trying to find out whether somebody is jewish, i mean, whether somebody is israeli is bad enough . and we've had this bad enough. and we've had this in the old days of i mean, look at this , guys. at this, guys. >> is what i'm showing you >> this is what i'm showing you on i just want to on the screen. i just want to reference seeing reference what we're seeing here. people who are here. this is people who are i mean, i want to call them people, but at the same time, they're acting in an animalistic way, in my mind. then people are saying, michelle, don't insult animals. barbaric. animals. well, they're barbaric. yeah, yeah yeah, that's the best word. yeah they barbaric. i dread to they are barbaric. i dread to think what they would have done if they'd have found someone that met their definition of

being wrong person. whether being the wrong person. whether that's israeli or whether that's an israeli or whether that's an israeli or whether that's an israeli or whether that's a jewish person. because i my bottom dollar they i can bet my bottom dollar they would got hold of that would have not got hold of that person said, hi there. can person and said, hi there. can we have a rational debate about what there? to me what is going on there? to me look like people that were intending to harm. so my question to you, scarlett. question is to you, scarlett. yes, fair enough. the majority of people on the marches in this country wrong country peaceful, nothing wrong and all the rest of it great. but the minority of people that are not in that camp that are wanting to cause harm to british citizens, whether that's jewish or beyond. do you think the approach to those people is strong enough now? >> i mean, the reason i can't stand those people is because of what they do to the marches right . is you what they do to the marches right. is you have i mean, that's not my question. >> no, no, no. i'm asking whether or not the police response is i think the police should be saying we don't have hate crime on. >> but i think they have to do it on every march telling someone, to whip someone, trying to whip up people go around people to go around beheading people to go around beheading people , standing there we

people, standing there saying we don't have hate crime, you don't have hate crime, not you fix you you know what fix it. you what you know what you you're not allowed to you say is you're not allowed to say not allowed to say that. you're not allowed to shout those things. you say shout those things. and you say that whether it's they are shouting those things . shouting those things. >> i know. >> i know. >> and but i wish the police is are the police responding properly to those people that are intent on trying to whip up people ? people? >> i would argue to commit acts of terrorism, um, on innocent people country . people in this country. >> yeah. and i would be happy to see those people taken out. i mean , not, not. do you mean by mean, not, not. do you mean by sorry , take it out of the march. sorry, take it out of the march. she's not messing around. >> take it out of the march. >> take it out of the march. >> but i think but what i'm saying is it's not only on those marches that you get. >> why don't you answer my question? my question. i'm saying question? my question. i'm say i'm question? my question. i'm sayi'm saying question? my question. i'm say i'm saying yes. question? my question. i'm sayi'm saying yes. but question? my question. i'm say i'm saying yes. but let me >> i'm saying yes. but let me just an example. just give you an example. >> many times do i have to >> how many times do i have to say, yes, the police not say, yes, the police are not acting appropriately to the people causing . people that are causing. >> okay. >> okay. >> saying is i i'm >> but what i'm saying is i i'm not . i'm not there when it not there. i'm not there when it happens. right i haven't seen it. >> come on. that fellow

scarlett, this fella wandering around jihad . he's not around chanting jihad. he's not calling for whatever it was in a struggle described as the other day. a struggle, he stood day. and in a struggle, he stood in him. stood in in front of him. he stood in front a banner talking about front of a banner talking about a muslim armies, chanting jihad. and then you get this kind of linguistic analyse thing linguistic expert analyse thing going, yeah, i think he's talking about the inner struggle. mean , come on. yeah. struggle. i mean, come on. yeah. >> and not just calling for jihad, but demanding that people choose side they're on. choose which side they're on. i mean, it is absolutely divisive, but important but there's one really important example to give you. sadiq khan, who's been calling for a ceasefire against party policy. labour against labour party policy against british national policy, which is to cause for pause as humanitarian pauses. sadiq khan is a friend with a guy called mohammed kozbar, may or mohammed kozbar, who you may or may not heard of. he is the may not have heard of. he is the senior most or one of the top people in the muslim council for britain, an organisation which the government refuses to do business with. he sits on the crown prosecution , crown crown prosecution, crown prosecution service . this prosecution service. this private prosecution service for

on the panel of hate crimes . on the panel of hate crimes. this is a man who has praised the founder of hamas and he sits on the crown prosecution services panel to deliberate on hate crime . and there you have hate crime. and there you have sadiq khan , who has a very large sadiq khan, who has a very large influence on the metropolitan police , is calling for police, is calling for a ceasefire , is against policy, ceasefire, is against policy, against labour party policy. >> are you. just a minute. we keep talking about sadiq . and keep talking about sadiq. and this is because because i'm joining the dots between kozbar, who's on the cps , on the who's on the cps, on the committee for the cps scrutiny of hate crime. please, let's not. >> and sadiq khan, who's calling for ceasefire, which is basically undermining israel's ability to take hamas to task . ability to take hamas to task. and this is what we're seeing on the streets of london. >> ben, the reason sadiq sadiq, as you quite rightly call him i'm sorry, always call him i'm sorry, i always call him sadiq. reason he calling sadiq. the reason he is calling for ceasefire is because for a ceasefire is because i mean, a the aims of israel, i mean, a the aims of israel, i mean, anybody is now saying this is never going to be met. at the

moment. they are there are there is a child being killed every 15 minutes. there is no there is. so little humanitarian aid getting in that people are starving. what he is saying, yes, it's against labour party policy, but but everyone is doing it for humanity reasons. >> no, everyone is calling for humanitarian pauses. >> i happen to know sadiq , i >> i happen to know sadiq, i happen to be speaking to him is i was speaking to him about yesterday. >> she's been talking. i was speaking to him about it yesterday. >> right. we were talking about the palestinian . he he he does the palestinian. he he he does not understand why hizb ut—tahrir was was not outlawed under blair. right. don't say that. this man is an extremist, sadiq khan. >> chaka khan put up a poster the other day. his office put up a poster of for white people on on on his website saying that these people, white people , do these people, white people, do not represent london. this man has a direct influence over the met police. he's good mates with a guy called mohammed kozbar,

who is who has praised in the past the founder of hamas. hamas is an organisation which wants to wipe out israel. we don't need to do a lot of joining of the dots to get to the conclusion this isn't true and well, it is true. no. and there's a difference between there's a big difference between calling a ceasefire and calling for a ceasefire and calling for a ceasefire and calling for a ceasefire and calling for humanitarian pauses, which is an agreed policy at the un. n0 which is an agreed policy at the un. no problem with humanitarian pauses. i've got a real issue with sadiq khan and other leading politicians calling for a ceasefire, which is basically asking israel to give up its right to pursue hamas . right to pursue hamas. >> no, it's not. it's actually asking israel to stop killing. >> no, that's a humanitarian pause. >> please tell me. stop telling me what i know . the reason i me what i know. the reason i mean, a you know, we you can look at sadiq one way. i can say that when i first met sadiq, many years ago, he was working with jews and with christians. he's always worked across the faiths right there is absolutely no question that that's what he's done. that and that's why, you know, the weekend that he

was elected , he went to was elected, he went to a synagogue and he and he had a he had a service in a cathedral . had a service in a cathedral. right. because he is he he is crossfit. he really, really believes in that. and the reason he's calling for a ceasefire is not about, you know , i don't not about, you know, i don't know what israel is going to achieve with hamas. right. and actually , all the military actually, all the military people don't either . but what we people don't either. but what we do know is that is that is that innocent palestinians in gaza are being killed all the time . are being killed all the time. >> well, you know, what is certainly a very emotional topic. you know, what is the answer? because nobody of course, innocent people to course, wants innocent people to die side the fence die. whatever side of the fence you're on. surely that all seems wrong, doesn't it? and of course, sadiq khan is not here to respond to some of those allegations. i suspect that he might dispute some of what is being said tonight. your thoughts are open to you, as always. vaiews@gbnews.com is how you can join the conversation now again, a topic

that has divided opinions. should police officers that have been accused and perhaps charged of wrongdoing be allowed? anonymity? yes or no. see you

radio. >> hi there. i'm michelle dewberry till 7:00 tonight alongside my deputy leader of reform, ben habib and the former labour advisor scarlett mccgwire . i'm quite passionate. debate before the break, if you've just tuned in, you missed it about the situation in well, i would say on the streets here of britain and the impact that the scenario well the situation the war now with israel and hamas is having here on the streets. archie says the home secretary is correct. they are hate crimes, pure and simple . while crimes, pure and simple. while liz says, i agree 1,000% with suella as statement , it has to suella as statement, it has to be stopped and heavy prison sentences applied . she's suella.

sentences applied. she's suella. in case you've missed it, is describing some of those marches as hate marches. the point that scarlett was making is, you know, not everyone on that march, the vast majority of people on that march are peaceful people that want a two state in palestine. peaceful people that want a two state people in palestine. peaceful people that want a two state people gettinglstine. peaceful people that want a two state people getting upset . many people getting upset. suella is a description. there mark rowley says. mark rowley , mark rowley says. mark rowley, sort yourself out, says my viewer george. he reckons he could do a better job than him . could do a better job than him. spencer says there is no way 99% of the people marching are anti hamas . mark says the police are hamas. mark says the police are outnumbered. they can't arrest anybody there because they will be mobbed. the police have no chance. mix as i agree with what ben is saying, this has been made into a religious thing rather than allowing the country the right to defend itself, divided opinions at home. what's yours? get in touch and let me know. now, again, this is a topic that i know will divide people . and i have to be people. and i have to be absolutely clear. this is an ongoing case, so i do have

ongoing legal case, so i do have to exercise some caution with the details of what i'm about to describe to you, because i don't want to prejudice any outcome. but firearms officer but the police firearms officer that been charged with the that has been charged with the murder set to murder of chris kaba is set to be public, be named now, needs to be clear. he has been charged with a trial, has not commenced to look at whether or not he's innocent guilty. is what innocent or guilty. this is what i'm saying. so it's a live investigation . but this whole investigation. but this whole premise that a police officer would be named pre—trial in this way because he's set to be named. so his name and date of birth will be made public in january, but not his address and not his image. january, but not his address and not his image . so where are you not his image. so where are you on it, ben? >> well, i think it's a mistake to make his identity known. this is who , rightly or wrongly is a man who, rightly or wrongly yet to be determined, was carrying firearm , um, rightly carrying a firearm, um, rightly was carrying a firearm . but the was carrying a firearm. but the way he used it was yet whether that right or wrong remains that was right or wrong remains to determined. had a trial to be determined. had a trial yet he hasn't had a trial yet yet so he hasn't had a trial yet but he was carrying a firearm and undertaking discharging his duty at and he should be

protected all the way through until there's a judgement either in his favour or against him. this is not a man who went out wilfully to commit a crime. this is a man who was fulfilling his duty to the country. and i think if we're going to ask police officers to carry firearms , we officers to carry firearms, we then have to afford them the protection of their identity until , you know, until there's until, you know, until there's a to resolution any judicial process that follows them using a firearm. and also, i would say that in the use of their firearm , they should also be afforded protections if you're going to ask them to take a gun out and use it, then they have to know that when they follow those instructions, they're not going to be hauled up in front of a court unless, of course, there's been a complete abuse of the law enforcement process. >> scholar we have no idea whether there was a was abuse of the law enforcement process in this. >> that's what i mean. this

example. general, i. >> no, no, no. that's what i'm saying. i'm saying that i think it's absolutely right that his named at the trial. and i think that what we have we have a real problem, um, of trust with the metropolitan police and we've got to do something about it. and in this particular case, the people a lot of people in brixton feel that what happened was wrong to then protect the policeman in a special way that is not afforded to anybody else. would be wrong. i think that you know, in a much wider context that we desperately need to that. and i know mark rowley is trying to do it, but very slowly see that he's the that we have police officer after police officer. i mean, there are real problems with police officers and the black community. i mean, we've had two people sacked last week because they they they they they they said that there was they they said that there was they thought there was cannabis when they took these two people out of a car. they there are massive problems with women. you

have police officers. actually i mean there are the big, big ones where it's rape and it's and murder. but but but if you read the daily mail about every two weeks, there's a police officer who's been done for taking advantage of a of a vulnerable woman. so you think the met is pretty useless? no i think they have to improve. i think they have to improve. i think they have to improve so that we can trust them. right. and i think that that london needs to be able to trust the met and one of the things is that when somebody goes into court, we have to know who they are. their address is being kept , their face is being being kept, their face is being kept. nothing will be done unless the person is found guilty. oh, come on. >> i once said this >> i mean, once you've said this person's date birth, person's name and date of birth, that'll very easy to find. that'll be very easy to find. i just want to bring in somebody else. a third voice into this conversation, if i may, because joining now is a former joining us now is a former police officer who 31 police officer who served 31 years in the police and is now founder of protect the

protectors. norman brennan, good evening to you. i'm interested in your take on this, whether or not anonymity should be granted or not. >> yeah, i'm going to try and give you a much more unbiased view than the guest that you've got to the left . i'll tell you got to the left. i'll tell you exactly what the situation is, is that officers are law is that police officers are law enforcers and they're people protectors that is their primary role. men and women that carry firearms are volunteers and let me just reassure everybody this is that they are exceptionally well trained, highly trained , well trained, highly trained, and there isn't a force in the world al fayed that can hold a light to the met and other uk police forces when it comes to firearms . in the past year firearms. in the past year alone, we've attended 18,000. in fact, more 18,000 firearms incidents and discharge the firearm on for occasions and officer when they're acting in accordance with their duty and their training should an incident occur where they may

face an answer to what they did in a court of law. i think it's only right and fair that that individual is not named until the court case or in particular any conviction. and let me reassure everybody listening to this program now since world war ii, not one single police officer in britain has been convicted of shooting dead unlawful lee somebody they shot . unlawful lee somebody they shot. >> and what do you think this will do, this kind of ruling when it comes to naming the officer, what will that do to morale ? morale? >> well, i already know what it's likely to do. i'm in touch with firearms officers behind the scenes . um, there are the scenes. um, there are certainly dozens, hundreds, if not thousands, and we only have thousands in britain of firearms officers that are now seriously considering handing in their permits . the morale is the worst permits. the morale is the worst i've ever seen. the metropolitan police in particular, and uk

policing all round is being slated day in and day out. yes, there's been some dreadful mistakes, but the thing is we are we are talking about men and women . the police are the women. the police are the public. women. the police are the pubuc.the women. the police are the public. the public are the police. you haven't got robocops. you've got people that get up each day and do their to keep society safe. and it appears now because of the errors and some absolutely disgusting and appalling errors by a few police officers , every by a few police officers, every single police officer now is being thrown under the bus. i had i was one of the main people that pushed the campaign over the past four days where the pubuc the past four days where the public donated almost £150,000. and the reason they did that is because they saw , as i did last because they saw, as i did last week, one of the most perverse decisions that i've seen in policing in 45 years. two officers that were sacked and i hear what your guests say. but the long and short of that is that the individuals concerned, if they just stopped and done what you and me and everyone

else would have been requested and rightly done, this matter would have been dealt with in minutes. but it's cost hundreds of thousands of pounds and it's caused a big divide. but you know what the public have said enough's enough . we think the enough's enough. we think the police been kicked and police have been kicked and enough, because if you treat the police like some people do, a relationship, you treat them and them. day out, 24 them. day in and day out, 24 over seven. one day they get up and go , who's going to protect and go, who's going to protect society? then when that happens ? society? then when that happens? >> i think that's a very poignant question to end on. norman, i'm going to throw that open to my panel, but for now, thank you for joining open to my panel, but for now, thank you forjoining us. what's thank you for joining us. what's your response to that? >> well, i think we do have to remember that it this you remember that it was this you know, this century that jean—paul was killed an jean—paul melendez was killed an electrician because he was he was the wrong person. i mean, i because because the police screwed up . so things do go screwed up. so things do go wrong , right? i mean, i would wrong, right? i mean, i would love i mean, how does naming this person , you know, before this person, you know, before the trial properly starts, what

does that achieve? because because what we're trying to do , because what we're trying to do, too, is, is i think what norman doesn't understand is i think there needs to be trust. the trust between the police and ed and people and i certainly know that in that area of london, in brixton, when that happened, because i've talked to the mps involved naming someone pre—trial who may or may not be guilty, i'm not going to guess because it's not my place and that's not the proper thing. but most people, almost everybody, right? everybody else is named pre—trial . and what we're saying pre—trial. and what we're saying is we're not going to name him now right? we're going to name him on the day the trial starts. >> hang on. just to be >> no. so hang on. just to be absolutely clear, so he was charged on the of charged on the 20th of september. the plea and trial heanng september. the plea and trial hearing to take place on hearing is due to take place on the december. the trial the 1st of december. the trial then is planned to start the 9th of september and anonymity of september 2024, and anonymity will lifted on the 30th of will be lifted on the 30th of january. that's the current timelines, as i understand it.

i'm interested in your views on that one at home. very different opinions coming from the guests and the panel. opinions coming from the guests and the panel . where do you and the panel. where do you stand on it? get in touch. vaiews@gbnews.com and let me know. now in wales as of course, there's conversations focusing on about how many women are in parliament. is the answer then to have all women shortlist? would that help quotas? if you think that would help, should men who self ideas women be allowed on those lists? you tell me .

events on a different continent that have riled up terrorist sleeper cells . in sleeper cells. in >> hi there, michelle dewberry tl7, deputy leader of reform uk, ben habib, alongside me as is the former labour advisor scarlett mccgwire for that conversation just then about whether or not the police officer should have anonymity as really again divided up ole richard says no way should that police officer be named ed at

all. shortens simple. john says he should be named the same as any other individual. why should he get special treatment? barry says police are upholders of the law. they should not be above the law. they should be treated the law. they should be treated the same as everybody else. if a pubuc the same as everybody else. if a public of the name of a public individual would be made available , then sir barry says available, then sir barry says should the police officers literally be? yvonne says he should remain anonymous . again, should remain anonymous. again, you are just literally, probably , i would say a 5050 on that one. keep your thoughts coming in. have you heard this story over ? when we talk about over? when we talk about parliament pretty much anywhere really in the land, the conversation about how many women are in there seems to be something that we have a conversation about quite often now. wales, the now. over in wales, the government there been government there has been criticised because it's been leaked apparently they are leaked that apparently they are very keen to get more women into parliamentary roles and therefore are looking at gender quotas. all women shortlists,

that of thing. but it looks that kind of thing. but it looks likely if a guy likely that if a guy self—identifies as a woman and therefore is a transgender woman, that person should be allowed onto the all women shortlist . do you agree with that? >> no, completely disagree with it. i mean , a man may wish to be it. i mean, a man may wish to be called jane and he may think of himself as a woman, but that doesn't make him a woman. and it's you know, it stands about two seconds worth of scrutiny to determine . what i've said is determine. what i've said is absolutely right . and no determine. what i've said is absolutely right. and no amount of pander ing to this ideology makes it right. indeed, i would go so far as to say, michel, that you shouldn't call him a trans woman. he's a man and he's trans. he's a trans man, and he should stay on the men's list . should stay on the men's list. women are women and if they wish to transition, if they think of themselves as men, then they're trans, they're still trans, they're still women. and they're now trans women. and so , you now trans women. and so, you know, i think the important point here, the serious point

here, is that our language is being undermined by the way that these labels are used and it's part, i think, of a much bigger , part, i think, of a much bigger, a much bigger hollowing out of the nation state than it is a united kingdom. you know, in language, language is being habitually to make ideological cases. habitually to make ideological cases . so, for example, calling cases. so, for example, calling a man who's wishes to be a woman, a trans woman, is pandenng woman, a trans woman, is pandering to the hijacking of the english language . the english language. >> do you agree? >> do you agree? >> no, i think so. i think, first of all, we have to say that all women shortlists came in as a way. so in a parliamentary seat or in a council seat or in this case in wales, in a senate seat, when you're selecting the person that you're selecting the person that you want to stand, you you you only have women to choose from because and the labour party brought it in because we just were not getting women and that's why they came in. so and it did work. i mean, in 1997

there were 101 labour women. it was, it was the highest that ever been. and that was because of all women shortlists. so that's why that happened. i think. i don't mind if transgender women and we can have another argument about transgender women go on the see, it's very difficult to get selected. the odds of a transgender woman being selected very, very low. i mean, most people will go they'll go for somebody they know. there is a women problem. i mean, but i somebody they know. there is a women problem. i mean, buti am women problem. i mean, but i am one of these women. i do not feel threatened by transgender women. right at all. i mean, i'm quite happy that if one is was born a man and is very , very born a man and is very, very unhappy, being that that that they can become a woman and frankly, this has been going on for centuries. right is there's been but it's just been quieter. and now and now it's loud. >> oh, i've got so much i want

to respond . so, i mean , let's to respond. so, i mean, let's just never mind the trans bit for a second. like i don't agree with all women shortlists. right and you celebrate and you say, well, you know, we ended up with like well, you know, we ended up with uke odd well, you know, we ended up with like odd women and that's, like 100 odd women and that's, you a big tick in you know, to you a big tick in the box. i want to end up with a parliament that has got the best people in that seat. i don't care a man or a woman or care if it's a man or a woman or whatever. just want the best whatever. i just want the best person to represent that area. and if that is a woman, brilliant . and if that is a woman, brilliant. if it is a guy, brilliant. if it is a guy, brilliant. and i think when you start alienating , there are start alienating, there are thereabouts 50% of the population from able to population from being able to stand just so somebody with a scare on can stand. i find that a little bit peculiar . a little bit peculiar. >> yeah, well, i mean, i'm actually not having a skirt these days. >> i was going to say somebody well, i was going to be quite crude with my analogy. i was going quite i was to going going to be quite i was to going be crude. and i softened it to say, if we're going to have an argument women argument over all women shortlists, let's just keep it to all women shortlist. shortlists, let's just keep it to (50 women shortlist. shortlists, let's just keep it to (50 the|en shortlist. shortlists, let's just keep it to (50 the problem .ist. shortlists, let's just keep it to (50 the problem the problem >> so the problem the problem was running

was that women were not running be excellent, were not be excellent, women were not being now why ? well, being selected. now why? well, because it was a boys club. i mean, you know, it was the same in the conservative, but it's the same in in all the parties is how how do you get women is how how how do you get women selected and this was the only way they so they tried it. way we they so they tried it. i mean one of the big opponents of all women shortlist was arthur scargill because he could no longer get his miners people , longer get his miners people, the people he wanted because that's that's how a lot of seats were decided was it was decided in small rooms and it was it was, you know , a man moved on was, you know, a man moved on from that. >> and women are now active in politics. so why do we still now need these all women shortlists? >> because as it doesn't, you still don't get proper representation. >> i mean, what do you call proper representation? about 5050. so you think that parliament should reflect out the sex split in public? and i think parliament should reflect britain actually. i think i think it's really good that and it's interesting that david

cameron with his a—list and you see it rishi sunak suella braverman liz truss terrible mistake but that actually david cameron did it another way and he brought in, he brought in lots of women and lots of people of ethnic minorities and it transformed the conservative party. yeah, i mean there is , party. yeah, i mean there is, there is. >> i just want to say there is so much we can unpick and unpack there. >> always fascinating how it's always a situation where guys can just sell off ideas. a woman to shoehorn their way into power that way it's never the other way round. can a woman sell ideas, a man and get the benefits that come with that? i don't know. you tell me what do you make to it all? we could continue conversation. but continue that conversation. but i to talk to you about i also want to talk to you about the going over to kenya. he the king going over to kenya. he has suggested put it has been suggested to put it mildly, that he should apologise for committed for crimes committed by the british do british government in kenya. do you should or not? tell you think he should or not? tell me .

i can tell you that conversation. i'm just looking at my twitter. i could have continued that conversation for a whole lot longer. that whole conversation about whether or not men selfies , dating as women not men selfies, dating as women should be allowed on all women shortlists. keep your thoughts coming in. deputy leader of reform uk ben habib, alongside me , as is the former labour me, as is the former labour adviser for scarlett mccgwire . adviser for scarlett mccgwire. again, you are divided on this, mark says. i don't care what sex or gender or whatever politicians are, but you should get your job on merit. claire get yourjob on merit. claire says. claire says we don't need 50% women mps. we just want decent mps quite frankly. cynthia says, who cares what sex anyone is? if they do a job, it doesn't matter. surely it is the best person for the job, darren says. do you think there should

be 50% female bricklayers says no because look, the reason no . no because look, the reason no. hey, you've got there, darren. >> no, i don't. i don't care who who lays bricks . who lays bricks. >> i do care who runs my country . me and, and actually the change of women means that child care is taken much more seriously . seriously. >> you know, we've got this diversity, equality and inclusion infecting every aspect of our institutions now, including the armed forces. so the air force is now under pressure to, you know, recruit people from minority ethnic backgrounds, religious minorities , transgender women, minorities, transgender women, whatever. and they are surely we must all agree that our military should only be chosen on the quality of their ability to defend the country, their ability to defend the. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and women and ethnic minorities can do the country but but no i think what's important about parliament right is what they're talking about. it's about it's about things like taking rape seriously. i mean , that's why you need women. mean, that's why you need women. you need women because they see

things differently and because women have said, you know, things like child care are not about a private thing . they are. about a private thing. they are. they are. they're about public services. and actually , women services. and actually, women have changed parliament and they've changed the debates. >> well, i'm a woman with a child, and i actually think childcare the responsibility childcare is the responsibility of parents, not just the of birth parents, not just the woman, but, hey, maybe i'm old fashioned. talk the king, fashioned. let's talk the king, shall got a state shall we? the king's got a state visit kenya starting visit to kenya starting tomorrow. there's been a lot of calls him basically to say calls for him basically to say sorry for past atrocities. do you think that he should ? you think that he should? >> so this is a really interesting one, because unlike most of the other demands of apology that are made, there are some people from this part of history that are still alive. i mean, generally we're being asked and people like the archbishop of canterbury are very willing to apologise for the slave trade that took place 200 years ago. but there are people alive from the 1950s who suffered with the brutal putdown of the uprising in kenya and but

there is there is also another marked difference. and it's this that there was a judicial process that was that went through in 2013 and a court awarded £20 million worth of damages to 5000 survivors from that, you know, from the brutal putting down of that revolt. and that should be the end of the matter. i mean, it's a testimony, actually, to this country that it's able to self—police itself , country that it's able to self—police itself, have a judicial process and award damages and no , i don't think damages and no, i don't think the king should be apologising for what happened in 1950, that it's happened. and what we've got to stop doing is a country is taking the need to the this release atlas pressure that we should be ashamed of our past. we should be very proud of the united kingdom's past. we should be very proud about the contributions that we've made to the world over centuries . the the world over centuries. the agricultural revolution , the agricultural revolution, the industrial revolution, the

exportation of common law , which exportation of common law, which has been so brilliant and beneficial for global trade. and i could go on and on and on, including, of course , the including, of course, the establishment of human rights, abolition of slave trade, and then the enforcing on the high seas of the shutting down of the slave we never get any of slave trade. we never get any of that. no, should not be that. no, he should not be apologising. scholar >> know why people make >> i don't know why people make such a fuss about about about saying sorry. i mean, what is wrong with going there and saying it happened in his lifetime? i mean, it's really as ben said, this is a very different thing. it's it happenedin different thing. it's it happened in our lifetimes. right. and his mother was on the throne when it happened. and if you read about the way the mau mau were treated and this is absolutely appalling, i mean, we're talking about castration is awful. right and all he has to say, all he has to say is, of course, it's sorry , it was quite course, it's sorry, it was quite interesting some years ago, you might remember there was a big investigation, select committee

into children who were sent after the war. they were sent to australia and they were sent to canada. poor children. they were told their parents had died. in particular, they were told they didn't and they didn't have mothers and they were abominably both were treated abominably in both countries. and one of the organisation that sent them was, was the action for children. and i was at the select committee with the woman from action for children and she said and she hadn't been there at the time, right. and she said of course we're sorry about it . it was right. and she said of course we're sorry about it. it was an abominable thing to do. of course we're sorry. it is absolutely terrible. meanwhile all the people from the catholics said it's just like going to boarding school. >> well, there you go. that's again, i suspect is a conversation that will divide you at home. so i shall let you ponder your thoughts of the evening. but look, time flies, doesn't it, when you're having fun . oh, thank you, scarlett, fun. oh, thank you, scarlett, for your company tonight. you've certainly got blood pressures arising over britain. ben habib, thank you, as always , for your

thank you, as always, for your company. and most importantly, thank you. at home for watching, for listening, for joining thank you. at home for watching, for listening, forjoining in for listening, for joining in the conversation. i very much appreciate it. nigel farage. up next, nana . next, nana. >> good evening. it's alex burkill here with your latest gb news weather forecast . first, news weather forecast. first, and whilst for many the unsettled theme continues through the next 24 hours, it's a drier but chillier picture for scotland . and that's because of scotland. and that's because of a brief ridge of high pressure scotland. and that's because of a brieiis dge of high pressure scotland. and that's because of a brieiis quieteningl pressure scotland. and that's because of a brieiis quietening theessure scotland. and that's because of a brieiis quietening the weather which is quietening the weather down a little bit here. meanwhile, the rest of the uk under the influence of a low pressure centred over republic of that's bringing then of ireland that's bringing then heavy many parts heavy showery rain to many parts of england, wales and particularly eastern parts of northern ireland. heavy rain building up here overnight could be perhaps, which is be up to 100mm perhaps, which is why some impacts are likely . why some impacts are likely. drier weather across parts of scotland. a touch of frost likely milder further likely here. milder further south. but with that , a few south. but with that, a few patches of mist and fog are possible first thing tuesday possible first thing on tuesday morning. tuesday then, is going to a changeable day with to be a changeable day with further across further showery rain across parts northern ireland,

parts of northern ireland, northern england into wales, a drier a time before drier slot for a time before more wet and windy weather arrives from the southwest later on. meanwhile across scotland here is looking mostly dry. here it is looking mostly dry. plenty sunshine, too , but plenty of sunshine, too, but quite chilly. temperatures struggling here single struggling here in single digits, milder further south with highs of around 14 or 15 celsius. if you're going trick or through tuesday or treating through tuesday evening, for band of evening, watch out for a band of rain pushing way up from the rain pushing its way up from the southwest drier the southwest but drier towards the north. more unsettled north. but more unsettled weather the way. this week weather is on the way. this week as approaches most as storm kieran approaches most affecting southern areas as we go through wednesday night into thursday , bringing heavy thursday, bringing some heavy rain. exception . rain. but it's the exception. only winds, particularly only strong winds, particularly around coastal around channel coastal parts, which we're most concerned about

>> good evening. tonight we look at the pro—palestine march that took place in london or was it a

pro hamas hate march? and could we be heading towards some form of religious war in our country? we'll look at today's covid inquiry, which shows those at the very top of government had serious , very serious doubts serious, very serious doubts about boris johnson's ability to lead the country during that crisis. and i'm a celebrity. get me out of here. well, it's all over the newspapers, apparently. i'm going into the jungle for a month. well i'll tell you about my decision over the course of the next hour. but before all of that, let's get the news with aaron armstrong . aaron armstrong. >> a very good evening to you. let's get you up to date with the headlines. the israeli prime minister says there will be no ceasefire in gaza and that this is a time for war. benjamin netanyahu promised to stand against the forces of barbarism until victory is achieved. describe hamas as part of an

axis of evil being formed by