a refugee camp , is it? you tell a refugee camp, is it? you tell me. and have fallen foul of the offence brigade for showing . are offence brigade for showing. are you ready? trigger warning . are you ready? trigger warning. are you? sat down in a comfortable place. they've had the audacity. everyone to show some christmas colours as it is apparently deeply offensive because it seems to represent according to some anyway, the palestinian flag and those hats that were christmas colours were being burn . what is this country burn. what is this country literally going insane ? and literally going insane? and speaking of this country, whilst watching those christmas ads, personally i couldn't help but feel that they seem to be chipping away at our traditions and our culture and our family units. the wants needs and feelings of minority groups being prioritised over the majority. am i wrong . well,

majority. am i wrong. well, we'll be debating all of that and more over the next hour. but first, let's bring ourselves up to speed with tonight's latest headunes. to speed with tonight's latest headlines . good evening. this is headlines. good evening. this is the latest from the gb newsroom. northern gaza's coming under intensified airstrike from the israeli military as hamas launches a series of missiles towards israel. our home and security editor mark white is near the gaza border. mark, what's the latest ? what's the latest? >> well, the gloom of the gaza skyline has being regularly illuminated by the explosions from israeli defence force missiles and artillery strikes as troops on the ground continue to push fonnard towards gaza city . to push fonnard towards gaza city. benjamin to push fonnard towards gaza city . benjamin netanyahu, the city. benjamin netanyahu, the israeli prime minister, has confirmed that those troops have reached the outskirts of gaza

city . the plan is to encircle city. the plan is to encircle that city before then , giving that city before then, giving the order to move in and to confront hamas in its stronghold of gaza city. we are also heafing of gaza city. we are also hearing from antony blinken , the hearing from antony blinken, the secretary of state who is on his regional visit now. now, he said that israel has a right to defend itself, but that democracy is have a duty to protect civilians and as well as the battle that is raging here in gaza, israel is also defending its northern border from regular rocket attacks from hezbollah. another barrage of attacks that took place at several points today . the town several points today. the town of kiryat shmona was struck on one direct missile hit into kiryat shmona, caused a major fire in the city centre . fire in the city centre. >> gb news home and security editor there, mark white, near

the gaza border. mark thank you for that update. the prime minister says his safety summit would tip the balance in favour of humanity . would tip the balance in favour of humanity. he speaking at bletchley park this afternoon. rishi sunak said this had been achieved by establishing a shared understanding of the risks and expert panel and reaching an agreement on testing the safety of new ai models before they're released. he says safely harnessing this technology could eclipse anything we've ever known. >> for the first time ever, we have brought together the ceos of world leading ai companies with countries most advanced in using it and representatives from across academia and civil society . and while this was only society. and while this was only the beginning of the conversation, i believe the achievements of this summit will tip the balance in favour of humanity because they show that we have both the political will and the capability to control this technology and secure its benefits for the long term .

benefits for the long term. >> hailstones as big as golf balls have battered parts of england as storm kieron brings with it gusts of more than ioomph, a major incident was declared in hampshire and the isle of wight while flood warnings are in place along the south coast, warnings are in place along the south coast , southern warnings are in place along the south coast, southern rail and southeastern have issued travel warnings and hundreds of schools across the south are closed. a red wind warning has been issued in the channel islands , where in the channel islands, where winds have reached more than 100 miles an hour. the bank of england has held the base interest rate at 5.25. it's the second month in a row it's kept the rate unchanged after 14 consecutive hikes . the consecutive hikes. the announcement will provide some relief to borrowers. however, the bank has downgrade added its forecast for economic growth , forecast for economic growth, saying inflation could stay higher for longer. chancellor jeremy hunt says his autumn statement will set out the government's plan to boost growth. bank of england governor andrew bailey says it's too early for cuts to interest rates

i >> there is absolutely no room for complacency. inflation is still too high. we will keep interest rates high enough for long enough to make sure we get inflation all the way back to the 2% target . we will be the 2% target. we will be watching closely to see if further increases in interest rates are needed. but even if they are not needed, it is much too early to be thinking about rate cuts. shadow chancellor rachel reeves says the figures show britain is heading in the wrong direction on, well, interest rate hikes have been paused today , but they remain a paused today, but they remain a historic highs and for the 1.5 million people looking to refinance their mortgages next yean refinance their mortgages next year, that will mean on average an additional £220 every single month. >> the bank of england today have revised down from low growth. next year to no growth at all. the conservatives have failed on the economy. it is working. people that are paying the price . the price.

>> the covid inquiry has heard that matt hancock wanted to decide who should live or die. who should hospitals become ovennhelmed , and lord simon ovennhelmed, and lord simon stevens, who was chief executive of nhs england at the time, said he discouraged the former health secretary's plan, preferred to leave such decisions to the medical profession. the inquiry is continuing . this is gb news is continuing. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker. by saying play gb news now it's back to . michelle news now it's back to. michelle >> thanks for that. tatiana michelle dewberry till 7:00 tonight. alongside me and my panel tonight. alongside me and my panel, the columnist for the mail on sunday, peter hitchens, and the editor of labour uncut atoll hats. well, good evening to you. you know the to both of you. you know the drill as well, don't you? you can get in touch with me all the usual ways. gb views gb news dot com. or you can tweet me at gb news. got a lot to pack in

tonight. there's lots of quite sensitive topics that i want to try and unpick and unpack tonight. often related to the israel hamas conflict, but much broader as well. some of the goings on in our society here and certainly some of the changes that we seem to be experience ing. so i really want to bring you to in this conversation with all your thoughts on that. scott, you were one of my first emails of the night out asking me whether or not my nana has got in early with her knitted christmas present for me . no, she has not. present for me. no, she has not. i'm just so cold today. it was. there's only one thing for it. there's only one thing for it. the wool , isn't it? there's only one thing for it. the wool, isn't it? in this kind of weather, how are you all faring up, by the way, with a bad weather? are you okay? anyone out there impacted? get in touch and let me know what's going you are. but going on. wherever you are. but of the top story that of course, the top story that i want explore with you tonight want to explore with you tonight , is all of these kind of , it is all of these kind of palace opinion, pro—palestinian protests that seem to be erupting over the uk in erupting all over the uk in recent weeks. these things are not slowing down. absolutely

not. and actually some of the behaviour would argue is behaviour i would argue is absolutely escalating. now you've some of this. i'm you've seen some of this. i'm absolutely sure we've spray absolutely sure we've had spray painted mice being thrown into mcdonald's . we've had different mcdonald's. we've had different shop windows put through. we've now had situations where train stations, people seem to think they can go and sit among their main kind of ticket hall concourses to argue for free palestine situation . as we've palestine situation. as we've had people spray painting on different buildings and we've just had so much stuff going on. i mean, one of the things that i always find quite fascinating and some of the people that think it's okay to get on top of these buildings, spray painting it with whatever they it with whatever message they feel the day, why they feel fit of the day, why do they conceal their if they are conceal their faces if they are so loud and massively so loud and proud and massively into course that they are into the course that they are celebrating? why not show your face then? never understood that. have you ? peter hitchens that. have you? peter hitchens these process s they are not going away . they will be ramping going away. they will be ramping up. if anything , over the coming

up. if anything, over the coming days, weeks , probably months. days, weeks, probably months. this conflict is not going to be solved any time soon. that's the gulf- solved any time soon. that's the guy. look, i was just mentioning . i mean, if you feel so passionately about your cause, why do you look like you're about go rob bank halfway about to go rob a bank halfway on way to a football match? on your way to a football match? >> well, you know, i have to agree on that. i think agree with you on that. i think you can't make i suppose, you can't make it, i suppose, illegal for people to wear masks. but it does diminish your opinion of them. it's just like people on the internet who insult a insult you from behind a pseudonym. it's not very brave or very or very convincing. well, that person you will have just seen as well, if you're not watching, if you're listening to me radio, basically just me on the radio, basically just showing top of showing someone on the top of one the buildings that one of the buildings that they've spray painting and they've been spray painting and he escorted off that rooftop he was escorted off that rooftop by the police. >> and subsequently >> and he was subsequently arrested. and point is, is arrested. and my point is, is just completely balaclava up. you see his eyes. and you can only see his eyes. and my point there is why, if you're so about your cause and so proud about your cause and you every to be proud you have every right to be proud about the cause that you're protesting, of it protesting, but be proud of it

then, don't conceal then, and don't conceal your face. where you on this face. but where are you on this broader of the protests at broader point of the protests at all? think there's a balance all? i think there's a balance to be struck. >> the right to protest is a sacred right and one to be cherished. i think for the people organised in the protests with good intent , they should with good intent, they should look really closely at how their cause is being portrayed because these are huge protests and it's very hard to manage those . but very hard to manage those. but we see a sort of different strands of provocateurs participating from kind of people who are very adjacent to islamism to actually members of the far right protesting to whip up anti—semitic hatred . and the up anti—semitic hatred. and the organisers of the protesters , organisers of the protesters, it's incumbent on them to work with the police to make sure that some of the slogans that we hean that some of the slogans that we hear, some chants , some hear, some of the chants, some of the behaviour is managed more appropriately because right now they're harming their own cause more than supporting it. >> are they harming their own cause? because will cause? because many people will actually feel and will come on to this in a second. they really

want to expand this. they want to get a million people taking to get a million people taking to a lot of to the streets. and a lot of people feel very that people feel very passionate that actually together, actually by coming together, showing solidarity if showing this solidarity, even if you have these kind fringe you have these kind of fringe pillocks kind pillocks doing these kind of things will think things, people will still think that this is a positive, productive , collective action. productive, collective action. there's a difference between generating publicity and bringing more people who are already committed to your cause onto the streets and persuading the people the silent majority. >> and let me just draw an analogy here or or draw a comparison before the last election , the people's vote election, the people's vote campaign. and i was a you know, i was a supporter of a second referendum, put a got a lot of people on the streets. and what happened basically at the election in an absolute trouncing for all the parties and all the parties that were in favour of a second referendum. and i just there are people whose livelihood needs and who kind of make money out of the media and clicks, who want people on the streets because it

generates income for them. and it's personally lucrative . there it's personally lucrative. there are people that are kind of little groups of calls like the socialist workers party who want people in the streets because they attract they think they can attract people. are not trying people. but they are not trying to the majority. it to persuade the majority. and it is hijacking of a just cause is the hijacking of a just cause by people, by groups and individuals with their personal agendas to try to polarise and make more radical. that is the problem . problem. >> i'm i've expressed on my program already. i have a lot of sympathy for what people are saying. thousands and thousands of children now are being killed in gaza. that doesn't show any signs of slowing down. and so i kind of listen to what people are calling for, which is to stop innocent babies and children being killed. i mean, it's very difficult to disagree with that sentiment, but i never seem to see any criticism of hamas or i'm just racking my brain. see, have i seen any at all at some of these protests? yes. it's all about free palestine. it's all about stop

the occupation or whatever . but the occupation or whatever. but where is the criticism from these people who understandably want innocent children to stop being killed? where is the criticism for the people that are causing a lot of this, i.e. hamas? >> well, i agree with you. i haven't seen it. and not haven't seen it. and that's not to say because i haven't to say that because i haven't seen it doesn't exist, but seen it. it doesn't exist, but it seem to be very it doesn't seem to be very prominent. part of the process. so be more so there would be more persuasive they if they made persuasive if they if they made it placards that it plainer in the placards that they carried and the slogans that shouted they were that they shouted that they were against the killing of innocents by whoever did and also, it by whoever did it. and also, it does seem to me i don't defend and in fact have opposed from the start and criticised the israeli bombardment of gaza . i israeli bombardment of gaza. i think it's both wrong and a political mistake. but i think there is a concern , visible there is a concern, visible difference between what happened on october the seventh as to say the deliberate personal face to face murder of innocent people and the bombardment of a of a of and the bombardment of a of a of an area full of israel's armed enemies, which i don't myself

take as a justification for a bombardment. but if you look at the laws of war in general, and if you look at the behaviour of this country and of the united states in extinguishing the islamic state in mosul and raqqa particularly a few years ago, the same method was used by them. i didn't wasn't particularly keen on it then either, but it is accepted generally as something which you do in war. i don't i'm not here defending it. but there is a difference between that and bursts into civilian settlements and killing women and children and killing women and children and an and because they are who they are are who in many cases are unarmed and are not at all human shields for military establishments or military operations. so there is a difference . so i would agree difference. so i would agree with you. i would like to see much more from the free palestine, as they call it,

demonstrations about the initial october the seventh killings than i have. so far noticed. and i would make one small comment, which i always make about the slogan free palestine. if there is ever such a nation, it doesn't seem to me to be very likely that it will be free given the current situation of the palestinian authority , where the palestinian authority, where i think the president was was elected for a four year term, 19 years ago, where the freedom of speech and the liberty of the media is not exactly guaranteed. whatever such a state will be free is not what it will be. the people who chant that slogan should wonder very much what it is that they're saying. >> you say about what >> what do you say about what they're saying? i some they're saying? i saw some protesters being interviewed the other guy asking other day and the guy was asking them question. when them a simple question. when you're shouting from the to river sea, palestine will be river the sea, palestine will be free. you free. which river are you talking about and which sea you're about? the you're talking about? the guy didn't know. not even didn't even know. i'm not even kidding . he didn't even know. i'm not even kidding. he didn't didn't even know. i'm not even kidding . he didn't even know kidding. he didn't even know what river and what sea . and i what river and what sea. and i think to myself, if you want to

involve yourself to the point where you're going to be taking to the streets because a lot of people are intimidated by what's going on on the streets, they really are. and if you want to be of that, which you know, be part of that, which you know, that's right and all the that's your right and all the rest of least understand rest of it, at least understand what it is that you're calling for, would like a for, at least i would like a little of gumption you little bit of gumption about you to have the bare basics that you're campaigning off the back of, mind, and this of, fresh in your mind, and this kind of a emission criticism kind of a emission of criticism using hamas by the people that want. understandable. want. and it's understandable. i can't this is can't stress enough this is understandable to not want innocent children to be killed. i mean , i say this and people go i mean, i say this and people go mad when i say it as a mom, my heart really feels that and i feel it passionately . i don't feel it passionately. i don't want innocent children, whoever they are, wherever they live and whoever's killing, whoever's doing the killing, i want stop. but but it is want that to stop. but but it is a glaring omission, not to criticise hamas and not to be encouraging hamas . show encouraging hamas. show yourselves, out of here. yourselves, get out of here. leave us alone. let palestine move on without you. it's. it's a ridiculous omission.

>> and again, it's the to the people who organise these protests with with good with with good intent. it's incumbent on them to try and manage this and ensure that there are signs there are the voices that would criticise hamas are prominent because at the moment these protests are taking over largely and i don't think this applies to the majority of people protesting, but the most voluble and the ones who are covered in the media are the most polarised and extreme. and this and the most extreme. and this this kind of discussion on from the river river to the sea, to an extent, the semantics don't matter. jewish people in this country feel intimidated. they feel like that is a call to genocide. don't do it. it's not that hard. it's just takes some basic empathy in the same way, there are multiple phrases that for any minority community, you can say and which technically are okay but have been used in acts of violence and bear and have a laden meaning for them just don't empathise, don't do

it . it. >> well, you lead me to an interesting point actually. i'm going to cover it after the break, which is the political response to this, because you're saying that chant, we've saying about that chant, we've seen mp losing his seen that labour mp losing his whip essentially for literally making whilst on the making that chant whilst on the stage. also seen david stage. we've also seen david lammy shadow foreign secretary, he's been tying himself up in knots about whether or not it's okay to bomb refugee camps. i've got some clips of him coming up, but what do you think to how the politicians are dealing with this situation ? have they got it this situation? have they got it right? have they got it wrong? i also talk to you as well also want to talk to you as well about the weekend the 11th of about the weekend of the 11th of november what's planned to november and what's planned to be happening and whether be happening there and whether or be allowed to or not they should be allowed to be quite be protests at that quite sensitive part . well, in our sensitive part. well, in our country, certainly for a lot of people, it is. so don't go anywhere. and i'll see you .

listening to gb news radio .

listening to gb news radio. >> hi there, michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, the columnist for the mail on sunday, peter hitchens, the editor of hitchens, and the editor of labour uncut at all. well, we've just been talking about protesting ian says. why does peter hitchens say we can't ban masks? he says france have banned masks to stop that kind of stuff. well i think it's an unwarranted interference in personal liberty to start telling people what they can and cannot wear. >> i said so during the during the attempt to force people to wear masks during the covid panic. and i stick to the same line. now, there are limits on what you can do and telling people what they can and cannot wear is, is something outside of france is not, in my view, anything like as free a country in its traditions or actions as we police are too we are and its police are too powerful its state is too powerful and its state is too powerful. wouldn't want to powerful. and i wouldn't want to emulate in that way or emulate france in that way or many others. it doesn't many others. so it doesn't matter we shouldn't it i >> -- >> do you agree with that, that we shouldn't that we should allow people to conceal their faces during these like i would

say, these are quite heightened times you think times right now. do you think you completely you should be able to completely cover face in like a cover your face in like a balaclava, like that fella did? >> really? i'm going to agree with i don't think with peter. i don't think basically i think there's in basically i think there's a in peace time and i didn't make a distinction to when . war or distinction to when. war or emergencies like covid people can wear what they like, what is incumbent on the state is to enforce the law so you can wear what you like. but if you're on top of a building, painting graffiti over it, setting off a flare, the police are there, should be there to nick you and you should be charged. >> disagree pair of >> i disagree with the pair of you. i think when things are when tensions heightened when tensions are so heightened at yes, fine. go and at the moment. yes, fine. go and protest and all the rest of it, but be accountable for your actions. so if i was, you know, looking street and looking down the street and i could see people with their balaclavas and the rest of balaclavas and all the rest of it, do think you should be it, i do think you should be stopped. i don't think you should think should be allowed i think you should be allowed i think you should mean, i say a false should be. i mean, i say a false and then you're going to ask me how i would enforce it.

>> but this is the law of unintended consequences which parliament times parliament passes about 20 times a if you once establish a year. if you once establish a principle that you can tell people they can cannot people what they can and cannot wear, can be wear, imagine how it can be extended what sort of things extended and what sort of things it be used to do to you in it could be used to do to you in future, you might find future, which you might find oppressive. is oppressive. the making of law is complicated. you shouldn't offer hostages to fortune and you shouldn't without shouldn't do things without working implications is, working out the implications is, to implications a law to me, the implications of a law telling people what they can't, what wear what they what they can't wear is, is implications are is, is those implications are very worrying and would greatly reduce the liberty of the individual and increase the power of some future dictatorship to do things which it shouldn't be allowed to do. >> well, context matters. you won't be able to go into a bank with a balaclava on your face, would you? so why be able to walk down the streets in times like this? offer open you like this? offer it open to you to have final say on that to have the final say on that one? but also, i can't help. >> you're not the same as streets. >> um. well, actually, some would we had the kind of would argue we had the kind of security you've got in security that you've got in banks the streets and the banks on the streets and the streets a bit of a

streets might be in a bit of a better position. look, i want to talk you about politics, talk to you about politics, weapons their handling weapons and their handling or not mishandling, say, of not mishandling, i might say, of certain because certain situations, because a lot people do be lot of people do seem to be tying themselves up in knots. the that's come tying themselves up in knots. the the that's come tying themselves up in knots. the the spotlight1at's come tying themselves up in knots. the the spotlight is.'s come tying themselves up in knots. the the spotlight is the)me under the spotlight is the shadow foreign secretary, david lammy. let's listen to what he had say. was talking had to say. and he was talking about of that about the bombing of that refugee camp that you'd be familiar with i'm sure. familiar with in gaza, i'm sure. let's because it's let's listen in, because it's clear to me that it's to clear to me that it's wrong to bomb a refugee camp . bomb a refugee camp. >> clearly, if there is >> um, but clearly, if there is a military objective , it can be a military objective, it can be legally justifiable. it's for israel to explain its actions . israel to explain its actions. >> well, that was on the bbc today programme. he hastily . today programme. he hastily. then, i have to say, followed up with a tweet. i think it might be able to show you that tweet. he's saying, as i said on radio four, it's morally wrong to bomb refugee camps. i'm appalled by the deaths. i the civilian deaths. and i called on and would continue to called on and would continue to call on israel to explain how it conforms to international law and how it qualifies as proportionate very proportionate. well, very quickly people responded quickly at all, people responded to that tweet saying that's not

what you said at all. and i've just you what he'd said. just played you what he'd said. and argue his tweet and i would argue his tweet didn't reflect everything, that he'd the but it was he'd said the word. but it was very and what he very significant. and what he said do you think said on the radio, do you think that labour party are that the labour party are handung that the labour party are handling because keir handling this well because keir starmer big spotlight starmer is got a big spotlight on him over the moment, on him over this at the moment, hasn't he? >> i think keir starmer has done exceptionally well. think back exceptionally well. i think back to what a mess the labour party could have been under jeremy corbyn like this , corbyn on an issue like this, keir starmer's line is the right line , which compassion and line, which is compassion and humanitarian pauses, but in terms of trying to support the flow of aid into gaza , but we flow of aid into gaza, but we have to recognise what happened on october 7th. it's a pogrom and it was not and it was instituted by hamas and hamas are in gaza and we have to recognise israel's right to proportion . response 1400 people proportion. response 1400 people were butchered and it is in all the calls for ceasefire and all the calls for ceasefire and all the calls for ceasefire and all the calls and outrage about

what's happened. and these are terrible , ghastly, awful terrible, ghastly, awful consequences . no one says, well consequences. no one says, well explains, well, how does that remove hamas? how do we have accountability for the pogrom that happened on october the 7th? and until that's answered and i see david lammy was sort of backtracking a bit there in probably on the weight of pressure from within on social media, from activists in the party. but this is one of those times. and keir starmer is exemplified it where we must and the labour party must hold to the labour party must hold to the line and keir starmer has the line and keir starmer has the right line. >> well, i don't think they're holding to the line. are they? not conforming not everyone's conforming to that seem to that line. people seem to be able to say whatever they want to. are you at with it? to. where are you at with it? >> peter that's an >> peter well, that's an intrusion into private grief as >> peter well, that's an intras on into private grief as >> peter well, that's an intras the nto private grief as >> peter well, that's an intras the labourvate grief as >> peter well, that's an intras the labour party'ief as >> peter well, that's an intras the labour party isf as far as the labour party is concerned. what i'm interested in consistency what in is the consistency of what people and the and the people say and the and the meaning of it. first of all, anybody who's familiar with gaza as i am , will understand the use as i am, will understand the use of the term refugee camp is itself probably intended to give

an impression which is not entirely accurate . these are not entirely accurate. these are not lines of tents full of people who've recently fled from disaster. the places referred to as refugee camps are now towns made of solid buildings , and as made of solid buildings, and as such they are like most other urban areas in the middle east and i've said again, because it's important, very similar to the city of mosul, which british and american jet bombers pounded with high explosives for many days while they were full of civilians in an attempt to eradicate islamic state . and i eradicate islamic state. and i don't remember the labour party offering very much opposition to that. i myself was doubtful about it because i am i believe that the bombing of populated areas is simply morally wrong in practically all circumstances. but the british establishment of both major parties, as far as i recall, it was perfectly happy to do it. so to criticise israel for doing what the americans and the british did in mosul is odd to me. i'd say i'm not defending it. i'm just saying if you want

if you want to get involved in these things, know what you're talking about, be consistent. >> yeah. but yeah, and that's the problem. they don't they? the problem. they don't do they? look, talking about look, so we're talking about these one of the these protests. one of the things caught my i'll things that caught my eye. i'll just a picture just show you a picture actually, a person that's been circulating doing the rounds on social because, course, social media because, of course, we're with the we're very familiar with the fact people want fact that people want to repeatedly but should repeatedly protest. but should there as to when and there be a line as to when and where they can do that? i'm asking because as armistice day, the 11th of november, this calls now for the million march for palestine. there's been various of different organisations organising coach trips , £20 organising coach trips, £20 a p0p- organising coach trips, £20 a pop. if you're interested, that they will bus you in on the 11th of november to do this protest just now. of course, i'm mrs. day is something that's very well, very key, very important and all the rest of it to people in this country to respect and take moments of silence. two minutes of silence and all the rest of it. do you think that's

a dare, then, when these protests should allowed to be protests should be allowed to be had? well the intent of organising protest a day as organising a protest on a day as sensitive that perfectly sensitive as that is perfectly obvious, polarise , obvious, which is to polarise, create incident and drive people into camps which are black and white and where everything is there is no middle ground. >> the response, i think what the response that they want is to be banned to an extent because that is a that's a that's something that the likes of these organisations can recruit against. they can fundraise against talking heads , fundraise against talking heads, can get clicks on their youtube channels. the right response is to allow a protest but ensure it is well away from anywhere where thatis is well away from anywhere where that is sensitive and this is a broader point. the way to disincentivize these protests is to rob them of any media coverage . no one none of these coverage. no one none of these organisations will organise a contentious and adversarial legal process and a sensationalist protest like that if they didn't think they were

going to get lots of clicks and lots of media coverage. >> armistice day, do you think they should be able to have pro free marches on day? >>i day? >> i think it's unwise for them from their own point of view to get mixed up in it. and would get mixed up in it. and i would strongly anybody involved strongly advise anybody involved not it because it's not to do it because it's because of the extreme bad manners really, which are involved in doing so. and in trying to eclipse s and perhaps get in the way of commemoration of a of a major national act of solemnity . i know the main solemnity. i know the main commemoration is on sunday, but quite a lot of events will take place, i'm sure, around the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month itself. and i think if any of them were to be disrupted by a march, it would be it would be deeply wounding to the people involved and upsetting to many people in the country. so i would i just think it's foolish to it i would discourage to do it and i would discourage anyone from taking part because it's whatever your position , it's whatever your position, what is gained by upsetting and

insulting people with whom you have no quarrel, one has to point out that many of the people who whose deaths and losses are commemorated on armistice day and the day after were themselves muslims. >> what i found quite interesting is this whole kind of notion of who can offend who because if you have the audacity to mishandle a quran, which is a book that many, many people doesn't have any significance to them, they're not islamic. they don't follow that faith. so to those people, it's just a book. but actually, if you did anything to a quran then that would understandably impact and offend. and a lot it all the offend. and a lot of it all the muslim in. but then muslim population in. but then on the flip side, what you've got things like armistice day and all the rest of it, which absolutely means a lot to a lot of people, then the same expectation to not cause offence isn't there, is it the met police says we're absolutely committed to ensuring the safety and security of anyone attending commemorative events. we know that this year there's concerns

about demonstration by pro—palestinian campaigners , as pro—palestinian campaigners, as they say the organisers of the process have not indicated any plans to protest. on remembrance sunday. they do intend to hold a significant demonstration on the saturday, but they're engaging with our officers and have said they are willing to avoid the whitehall area, recognising the sensitivities around that date. they also go on to say this is a weekend with huge national significance. we will use all the powers available to us to ensure anyone intent on ensure that anyone intent on disrupting it will not suck. seed. well, time will tell as to how that one plays out. what what do you make to all gbviews@gbnews.com speaking of fence and all the rest, have you seen that marks and spencer's have now come out and apologised . are you ready? you've got to brace yourself because this is very sensitive trigger warning coming your way. they've had the audacity, and gents, to audacity, ladies and gents, to display traditional christmas colours. why has that been colours. why why has that been offended? well, apparently represents the palestinian flag. goodness gracious me. what's

going we'll that and going on? we'll have that and more the .

raise about £180,000 at the moment. >> we're hoping for 200 grand. i think i think it might be doable the way things are going. just a quick message for them, if that's all right. yeah >> look, thank you so much for your generosity. >> i'm michelle >> hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with useful 7:00 tonight. conversation , one tonight. the conversation, one of the topics that's really got you guys talking about this you guys talking is about this marks spencer's advertising. marks and spencer's advertising. have seen what's gone on have you seen what's gone on today? keeping me company to discuss this, peter hitchens atoll will remain . now, in case atoll will remain. now, in case you've missed it, i shall i shall bring you up to speed. so basically proudly marks and spencefs basically proudly marks and spencer's has showcased their christmas advert and i can tell you there's a lot to unpick in this. and i'm going to get into the broader topic about what on earth they are doing with this advert because it received a lot of criticism people were saying about how work it is us and all the rest of commenting on the the rest of it commenting on the make or the missing make up or the missing components, should say, of

components, should i say, of that advert. but the bit that's really got people hot under the collar , i don't know if you just collar, i don't know if you just saw because it was all flying by quite quickly , but there was a quite quickly, but there was a part of it which was a scene which was i might be able to bnng which was i might be able to bring it back up for you, this one. so you've got a lady, i'll describe it if you're listening, not watching. and she's sitting there in a living room, christmas tree. she's got a dress on. nice festive scene. look what look at that, everybody. what then that marks and then happened is that marks and spencer themself decided to zoom in showcase the fireplace. in and showcase the fireplace. can you see this? so if you're watching not listening shall describe it again. so you've got a few christmas hats . you've got a few christmas hats. you've got red silver , they say, and green red silver, they say, and green christmas hats for over a fire. and the fire is lit. what's then gone on is that people have said , hang on a second, this red presents a palestinian flag being set on fire. marks and spencers have absolutely panicked. they've removed that bit from their advert and they've issued grovelling statements basically saying that

they didn't want to cause offence to anybody . now, forgive offence to anybody. now, forgive me . right. so there you go . in me. right. so there you go. in case you're not familiar with the palestinian flag by now. yes it's got black, white, green and red in it. yes. nothing wrong with your colour vision, if you can see that. but so is a lot of other countries. got those colours? does this represent it to you, peter? the burning of a palestinian flag and wear marks and spencer's right to remove this from their advert and apologise ? apologise? >> well, no, it doesn't represent the burning of palestinian flag, obviously. doesn't the film was made, as i say, in august before all this blew up. and the idea that someone would thought, someone would have thought, right, secret right, let's insert the secret burning palestinian flag in burning of a palestinian flag in marks spencer's christmas marks and spencer's christmas advertisement so advertisement is absurd in so many different ways is that i don't know who could believe it. but the problem is that there are in our society people who will the fantastic will believe the most fantastic things and i can see what went through the minds of marks and spencers through the minds of marks and spencer's when they when they were accused of this. and i don't it's not what can i say?

i'm not defending it. it is absurd. but you can see why when you're up against beliefs of that kind, you panic. >> what do you make to it? >> what do you make to it? >> i'd probably agree. i think it's absolute tripe that this was any deliberate act. there's no intent there. as peter said, it was filmed in august and it sort of spotlights the extent to which it idiotic conspiracism pervades as so many of the filter bubbles online. i do, however , think that marks and however, think that marks and spencers however, think that marks and spencer's i utterly and completely understand why they took that. still, that instagram shot or that bit of the ad down because they've explained . but because they've explained. but the thing is online you've got a little group of people who are going to attack you and it's going to attack you and it's going to attack you and it's going to divert their trying to roll out their christmas ads. you spend all year you know, they spend all year preparing it and there's preparing for it and there's other discussions they want to have it out , get it, have just get it out, get it, remove it and kill the kill the conversation. but and i understand why they did it, but it is insane that anyone can

think there was intent. there when it was filmed in august. >> but so many people are desperate to be offended. absolutely desperate. they spend their lives. >> people for hundreds of >> people come for hundreds of miles offended. some miles to be offended. in some cases, particularly in northern ireland, a ireland, people would go for a very distances to be very long distances to be offended orange marches offended by orange marches at drumcree things that. drumcree and things like that. it's enjoy. the it's something people enjoy. the one chief pleasures in one of the chief pleasures in life is to be offended by things, but righteous rage is very affirming, particularly when you don't have to march anywhere. >> you can just do it at home in front of a laptop. well there is that too. >> but it's but if marks and spencers >> but it's but if marks and spencer's hadn't deleted it, who knows what might have happened next? >> well, so you see, this is the thing, because they were thing, because i think they were pretty to have deleted pretty pathetic to have deleted it, by deleting what it, because by deleting it, what you're saying is, you're basically saying is, yeah, yeah yeah. maybe it yeah, okay. yeah yeah. maybe it was the palestinian flag . was the palestinian flag. >> let me delete it in my in my early years in journalism, there was can't remember was a famous i can't remember his or his paper, but he his name or his paper, but he was famous at the time editor of a home counties evening a of a home counties evening newspaper whose motto was

apologise a reader and apologise and keep a reader and his journalists, of course, hated but would, hated this habit, but he would, if was attacked by if ever he was attacked by readers for anything in the papen readers for anything in the paper, would apologise for it paper, he would apologise for it and he kept his readers and that is basically principle is basically the principle at work not it's not work here. it's not it's not particularly nice and it's not particularly nice and it's not particularly courageous, but in the world of commerce, people will often do it because you can sometimes lose very heavily by standing for principle. >> but you see, i actually think it's pretty dangerous because if you allow in this what i want to move into after the break in a second, if you allow these minority groups to tell you what you what you intended so you know, marks and spencer's, they didn't shoot an advert in august with christmas colours , thinking with christmas colours, thinking to themselves, oh, maybe , just to themselves, oh, maybe, just maybe, they might be a bit of an escalation in the israel—palestine conflict. so let's get ahead of that by lining up these flags. that didn't happen in nobody with a sane man thinks it happened. so when you then start going, oh yeah, delete it , when you then start going, oh yeah, delete it, i'll yeah, i'll delete it, i'll delete you're giving delete it, you're giving credence then to that.

ridiculous. >> i think they got they got i think are they the think you are they got out the truth. i think what they're worried about is that the lie will because even with will persist because even with the truth there the lie persists and it will get kicked on and kicked on. and the simplest thing just try remove thing to do is just try remove this they want have this because they want to have other want to have other know. they want to have another conversation about their ad well, probably they're more terrified, frankly. terrified, quite frankly. >> gone on >> they're seeing what's gone on with mcdonald's. >> they're seeing what's gone on with seeing mcdonald's. >> they're seeing what's gone on with seeing mcd(gone s. >> they're seeing what's gone on with seeing mcd(gone on they're seeing what's gone on with of starbucks. and with the likes of starbucks. and they probably sitting there thinking, to get thinking, do i want to get my windows in? do i want to windows smashed in? do i want to find my staff at risk? probably not. why not. and that's probably why they've one of the they've done it. one of the things that's really you things that's really got you guys talking ad is guys talking about that ad is not the ridiculous ness of not just the ridiculous ness of those hats, says. i'm those hats, dawn says. i'm furious this advert. how furious about this advert. how dare they take the christ out of christmas? people, you'd be christmas? many people, you'd be surprised, actually, at all. many, many people are offended by this advert because they saying it's basically offensive to the festive season. this is what linda's saying is offensive to the festive season and the meaning of christmas . if

meaning of christmas. if anything, it should be the crystal ian community that they are apologise ing for undermining this concept of christmas in the first place. so i want to ask you that, are they undermining the concept of christmas? what is going on in this society? are people chipping at some of the chipping away at some of the traditions ? is the christian traditions? is the christian heritage ? and you tell me. we'll heritage? and you tell me. we'll explore that in just a couple of minutes

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till seven. alongside me, the columnist for the mail on sunday, peter hitchens, and the editor of bronco, athol hatwell. a few of you are getting in telling that getting in touch telling me that i've wrong end of the i've got the wrong end of the stick. the people were not offended marks and offended by the marks and spencer because the spencer advert because of the palestinian they were, palestinian flag. they were, sheila for people sheila says. for example, people were the ad because were insulted by the ad because it was just banning simple traditions. it wasn't about palestinian i palestinian ads, she says. i need to go and watch the ad.

someone says it was the someone else says it was the banning of the christmas cards and christmas elf and batting the christmas elf into oblivion that offended people. the people. it wasn't the palestinian flags . you've palestinian flags. you've respectfully , you guys, there is respectfully, you guys, there is two sides to this. i completely agree. and this is the element i want to explore with you guys about whether or not the tradition of christmas and all the rest of it is being eroded. i completely agree with you. i hear it. that's offended a lot of people. and spencer's of people. marks and spencer's didn't care about they didn't care about that. they were bothered about were not bothered about offending of offending the majority of people. it was only when the minority minority minority people, a minority of people said about people came along and said about the flag, was people came along and said about the element flag, was people came along and said about the element thatag, was people came along and said about the element that they was people came along and said about the element that they then as people came along and said about the element that they then went on changed. so there two on changed. so there was two separate being separate groups of people being offended different offended for two different reasons. only one them caused reasons. only one of them caused marks and spencers to properly change although change their ad, although someone's touch saying someone's been in touch saying they've added the word christmas on now because on the end of it. now because apparently was missile apparently it was this missile or are or whatever it was. where are you on this? what people are saying about whole erosion saying about this whole erosion of and of christmas of christianity and all rest of what happened all the rest of what happened a long time ago, didn't it?

>> i mean, this i don't recollect marks spencer's recollect marks and spencer's christmas recollect marks and spencer's christ|about recollect marks and spencer's christ| about the recollect marks and spencer's christ|about the birth of christ being about the birth of christ in bethlehem or choirs of angels or anything of that kind. it's all about consumer of goods and buying stuff at marks and spencer's. and for many, many years in this country, the christmas has largely been about celebrating miraculous birth celebrating the miraculous birth of in back room in of television in a back room in soho. been nothing to soho. it's been nothing to do with christianity at all. so i don't feel as somebody who does celebrate christmas as the birth of particularly of our lord, are particularly bothered . if the sort of tacky bothered. if the sort of tacky commercial christmas of elves and santa claus and all the rest of it is mocked, or if people are tired of playing board games or paper hats. i hate paper hats myself and christmas cards seem to me to be on their way out because the price was stamped no more or less the same price as the price of a tin of caviar. so i don't think that it's offensive to christmas . i don't offensive to christmas. i don't even feel particularly worried about christmas elves because i don't believe in them .

don't believe in them. >> peter bah humbug at all. >> peter bah humbug at all. >> i think if one's sense of christmas is defined by an elf on a shelf or a paper hat, which i also detest, paper hats in common with peter here, if that defines one sense of christmas, that's fine , but you will be that's fine, but you will be offended by this. marks and spencer ad if your sense of christmas, however, is defined by by being with people, you love, maybe there's a religious aspect to it. then this ad has really, you know, this . how can really, you know, this. how can this ad possibly threaten those tenants, your family , your tenants, your family, your faith? it's a commercial organisation selling pies and puddings. how on earth does that impact the broader sense of christmas ? christmas? >> because many people will say actually that this is just the latest example of the fabric of society being undermined because actually christmas , it is actually christmas, it is traditionally a time where it's not about you , it's about not about you, it's about someone else. it's about coming together with other people ,

together with other people, buying gifts for other people to try and spread joy, whatever that gift looks like, trying to spend quality time with other people. that advert for me completely undermines all of that. basically says, you that. and basically says, do you know all about you and know what it's all about you and what you want? stuff. everybody else stuff, the collective stuff. long as you're stuff. but as long as you're happy that's what m atters. >> matters. >> that's how i saw that >> that's not how i saw that ad at all. saw that ad about at all. i saw that ad about about being comfortable . you about being comfortable. you know, they're all in social settings. they're making settings. so they're making food, they're it's not just for one. but what that ad said was some of the rituals which can become a drag writing christmas cards, putting a paper out, the things expect of things other people expect of you you're there with your you when you're there with your loved ones, you don't have to do it christmas is about being it christmas is about you being comfortable with your people and you know, and no, the tyranny of having to wear a christmas hat, you know, that doesn't have to be part of it. having to send a thousand cards that doesn't have to be part it. you do. you to be part of it. you do. you and enjoy and respect christmas with family your loved with your family and your loved ones. saw that out.

ones. that's how i saw that out. >> martin is very sensible. says please , can we all notice that please, can we all notice that paper decorations were near fire places? that is a serious fire risk. and not to be encouraged. i mean , not many of us have i mean, not many of us have fireplaces anymore, alas. >> well, actually , not really allowed. >> you've got to be. i was just about to say you've got to be careful if you've got fireplaces woodburner, because they will be coming after you and taxing you on honestly, collins on that. honestly, collins says this totally offensive this advert is totally offensive to christians as a loyal customer to m&s, will not be customer to m&s, we will not be shopping until shopping there again until somebody sacked. >> well, i think that's unfathomable. in what way is a defensive to christians? it portrays an entirely secular and religious christmas of decorations, eating and drinking and gathering together without any reference whatsoever to what to me is the central purpose of the festival. so i don't see how it's offensive to christians actually , the commercial actually, the commercial approach to christmas, which was

dominated our culture for so long, has , as has, has pushed long, has, as has, has pushed out the christian aspects of christmas from from our society and from thought. i don't think there's any hint of a christmas carol in the advertisement or any hint of any mention of the of the christmas message at all. and i notice increasingly commercial organisations trying to avoid use of the word to avoid the use of the word christmas they're christmas because they're afraid, wrongly, it afraid, i think wrongly, that it will other will offend people of other religions and there's no religions as and there's no great commitment the great commitment to it. and the i think the thing which the advertisement is supposed to portray as some sort of belief that that many women, particularly women who out to particularly women who go out to work, sick of having go work, are sick of having to go through the fire of through all the fire of decorations and preparing elaborate cakes and puddings . elaborate cakes and puddings. and is the women doing that because the women are the people who are most who are most strongly portrayed in the advertisement, the sophie ellis—bextor and the other actress whose name escapes me the most prominent people in the advertisement . advertisement. >> john says so many people

obsessing about tv advert is a good indicator of what a bunch of idiots social media has made millions of people become. samantha she's absolutely furious about the banning of christmas cards . as ernie says , christmas cards. as ernie says, as michelle, i've got to say, i wouldn't want either of your two panellists, guests round my house at christmas talk about doom and gloom and party poopers. okay well, don't invite me. >> it's all right. i am, in fact, already engaged, but we all got . he's got. we all do all got. he's got. we all do christmas. we all do christmas in our own way. and i trust you'll enjoy yours without me. well >> oh, there you go. he's got plans . what can i say? you know plans. what can i say? you know what? this whole christmas list. don't get me started. the christmas markets are now named winter market. a life at winter market. get a life at all. peter, thank you very much for your company. thank you for yours at home as well. nigel farage. up next, hello again. >> it's alex burkill here with your latest gb news weather

update . and whilst not update. and whilst not everywhere, saw the stormy weather, it was very wet and very windy for some particularly southern parts due to storm kieran. however that feature is now clearing its way into the north sea, still bringing some blustery and very wet weather to eastern parts of the uk , eastern parts of the uk, particularly eastern scotland. north east england. as we go through the night and into friday here we are going to see some further heavy rain, clearer skies towards the west and the south. and here under those clear skies, it is likely to turn little chilly. some turn a little chilly. some places get your low places could get into your low to mid single figures as we go through friday. then we are to going see further wet weather, particularly for eastern parts of scotland and north—east england. could some further england. could see some further flooding here with more disruption to likely as disruption to travel likely as well. elsewhere scattering of showers coming down a north showers coming down on a north northwesterly wind. so particularly across parts of northern but feeding northern ireland, but feeding into wales as well . into england and wales as well. some sunny breaks in between the showers and we're likely to see highs of around 14 15 highs of around 14 or 15 celsius. so a touch higher than

today the weekend and today into the weekend and saturday may start with some mist and fog patches, particularly north. then particularly in the north. then a wet weather and a swathe of wet weather and strong pushes its way up strong winds pushes its way up from the south, affecting many parts of england and wales. also some showery outbreaks across the of scotland, but the far north of scotland, but something brighter in something drier and brighter in between. more showers as we go through sunday into monday. and temperatures staying near normal for of by

by by >> by >> good evening. i must armistice day is coming very soon. and yet in central london on 11 1111. that's special moment there is a pro palestinian march plan with up to a million people. should it be allowed to go ahead. we look at storm kieran , the damage that at storm kieran, the damage that it caused and the flooding especially on south coast especially on the south coast and we'll ask ourselves, is this

exceptional ? john kettley will exceptional? john kettley will join that and i'll be join me on that and i'll be joined on talking pints by a former minister of iceland former prime minister of iceland and a little country that's managed stay of the managed to stay outside of the european union and keep its own fish . should we have learnt from fish. should we have learnt from iceland earlier? but before all of that, let's get the news headunes. headlines. >> nigel, thank you very much and good evening. this is the latest israel defence forces has confirmed they've completed the ground encirclement of gaza city. they've now entered another significant stage in the war. they say that as northern gaza came under intensified airstrikes from the israeli military , as hamas launched military, as hamas launched a series of missiles towards israel. today, at least a dozen combat jets launched missiles at hamas targets while artillery placements opened fire from ground positions. it comes after fresh strikes this morning killed two hamas leaders in jabalya , an area used as

jabalya, an area used as a refugee camp. the united nations