. and that's a matter of record. and you know what? i think that that that may be because across the world, the memory and the lesson of that appalling crime and 6 million died. the memory may be starting to fade and it may be that what we're really seeing now in some of these as these marches and the and these demos and the unthinking way people are talking about this issue, well, we're starting to see perhaps i really hope this isn't the case. but you're seeing more and more evidence of anti—semitism . anti —semitism. >> anti—semitism. >> humza anti —semitism. >> humza yousafs anti—semitism. >> humza yousafs in—laws have arrived back in scotland after being trapped in gaza for more than three weeks. the first minister posted a photo on ex saying he's glad they're back home safely. the foreign office is pressing for the rafah crossing to reopen to allow uk nationals to escape from gaza. egypt announced the suspension of evacuations following a deadly attack on an ambulance . deadly attack on an ambulance.

anthony blinken is in turkey to continue humanitarian talks with foreign ministers after the us secretary of state met with the palestinian president in ramallah in the west bank. president abbas told him an immediate ceasefire is needed. the pair also discussed getting more aid into gaza and efforts to restore stability to the west bank. prime minister rishi sunak and home secretary suella braverman have expressed concerns about further pro—palestine protests during armistice day. the met police commissioner, sir mark rowley, has promised to take a robust approach and to use all available powers to ensure commemorative events are not undermined . deputy pm oliver undermined. deputy pm oliver dowden says that armistice day should be about honouring the sacrifices made by previous generations . i have really grave generations. i have really grave concerns about this and i think that certainly representing a large jewish community as i do, but it's broader than the jewish

community. >> we should be honouring and respect, >> we should be honouring and respect , noting the sacrifice respect, noting the sacrifice made by previous generations and certainly shouldn't have the kind of intimate nation that you see in those marches . see in those marches. >> well, meanwhile, shadow defence secretary john healey says we live in a democracy and we must balance the right to protest. it's an operational decision for the police . decision for the police. >> they are talking to the protest organisers who want to show their solidarity with palestinians and they're looking at a different place in london at a different place in london at a different place in london at a time. two hours after the remembrance service at the cenotaph and i hope we'll be able to get to a situation where we're not banning the right of protest, but we're absolutely ensuring that the remembrance rec cognition and honour of those people who've served and fallen to defend us in this country is fully respected. >> this is gb news across the uk on television, in your car, on digital radio, and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news.

now it's time for. camilla good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey show >> what a show we have got lined up for you today. i'm hoping that the deputy prime minister can hear me and is joining us from central london as we speak . from central london as we speak. mr can you hear me? mr dowden, can you hear me? thank very, much indeed thank you very, very much indeed for time this morning. i've for your time this morning. i've just been speaking michael just been speaking to michael portillo these portillo about some of these allegations in the mail on sunday. need to ask you, sunday. i do need to ask you, because party chairman because you were party chairman at the time. it's been suggested that the tory party covered up a rape claim or several alleged rape claim or several alleged rape claims paid made for a complainant to be sent to a private hospital rather than speak to the police. you were party chairman before jake berry wrote this letter alerting the

authorities to what had gone on. what knowledge do you have of these events, mr dowden ? well, these events, mr dowden? well, first of all, i should factually clarify that i wasn't the immediate predecessor of jake berry. >> i don't recognise these these reports, and it certainly wasn't the case when i was party chairman that there was any kind of cover up. indeed, i take exceptionally seriously these reports and allegations. first of all, they should be a matter for the police. but also there was an independent party complaints procedure that can be zero tolerance of this kind of activity . activity. >> but did the party pay for the private bill of a rape private hospital bill of a rape complainant? >> well, that's certainly not something that i signed off as i as chairman of the conservative party. i didn't have knowledge of that. i can't say for certain to you simply because i don't know the name of the complainant in question. i don't think it has. sorry, the name of the person whose fee have meant to have been paid by the party.

>> but i mean, surely there can't be that many people whose private hospital fees might have been paid by the party. >> well, as i say, i don't recognise this from my time as as chairman of the conservative party and i certainly didn't sign off something like that. so you've got no knowledge of this. >> do we think? nadine dorries, your former conservative colleague, or colleague, is making it up or there's no truth to it because we've got a letter from jake berry. have been berry. it seems to have been quoted in mail quoted extensively in the mail on . on sunday. >> well, my understanding is and i haven't read every last line of the report that the person hasn't been named, but that's a matter for the mail on sunday from nadine dorries and for others, well, the person might not have been named , but did it not have been named, but did it happen? >> this letter has been written by jake berry, your successor. you're suggesting the tory you're suggesting that the tory party has paid the private hospital bill of a rape complainant rather than necessary sending her the necessary sending her to the police station ? police station? >> well , all i

police station? >> well, all i can police station? >> well , all i can say to police station? >> well, all i can say to you is, as i've said, camilla, i didn't sign off anything like that. >> and i don't recognise it. my myself . myself. >> so you don't have any knowledge of this having happened ? happened? >> no. >> no. >> like i said , i you know, i >> like i said, i you know, i was chairman of the conservative party. i did not sign off something like that. >> but did you have any knowledge of it having happened? >> no , no, i'm sorry. i've i've >> no, no, i'm sorry. i've i've not made that clear to you. >> no. so you don't have any knowledge of this story at all? >> i don't have i don't know who the person is because they haven't been named. and i've also said to you that in respect of both a cover up, i have zero knowledge of that and we would not have covered up at all. and i certainly didn't sign off any kind of support in the way that has been described there. kind of support in the way that hasokay, described there. kind of support in the way that hasokay, let'sribed there. kind of support in the way that hasokay, let's move here. kind of support in the way that hasokay, let's move on e. kind of support in the way that hasokay, let's move on to the >> okay, let's move on to the controversy around this pro—palestinian march on armistice day. do you think this march should take place ?

march should take place? >> i have really grave concerns about this. and i think that certainly representing a large jewish community as i do, but it's broader than the jewish community, the remembrance sunday is about and indeed remembrance day on the day this march is planned, is about remembering the sacrifice of previous generations and is a solemn moment in our nation's history. and i don't personally feel that that would be appropriate . feel that that would be appropriate. i also feel that that would be appropriate . i also have appropriate. i also have concerns about the potential for violence and other misconduct . violence and other misconduct. but in the end, the law of the land is that the police are operationally independent, and that's a decision for the commissioner of the metropolitan police. >> i know, but we've heard from sir mark rowley in the week saying that he doesn't think he has adequate powers to stop the march. if the government march. so if the government wants to be stopped, wants the march to be stopped, if suggests that the if polling suggests that the pubuc if polling suggests that the public the march be public want the march to be stopped, why doesn't a conservative government the conservative government stop the march, . march, which. >> well, there's a very simple

process in law , and indeed it's process in law, and indeed it's happened before. it happened when theresa may was home secretary, when there was an engush secretary, when there was an english defence league march, the commissioner of the metropolitan police applied for that march to be banned and she provided the authority as home secretary. the law sets out that it is a matter for the commissioner of the metropolitan police to request of the home police to request it of the home secretary. i think you've seen from the home secretary's comments inclined to comments where she's inclined to be on it. but it's a it's a that is the way that it works. that's how the law works. >> so if suella braverman going to be saying the metropolitan to be saying to the metropolitan police commissioner this week, you this you you must stop this march, you have the powers, so can you stop it, please ? it, please? >> well, i think you've seen from suella comments how grave her concerns are about it . and i her concerns are about it. and i think both in terms of the signal it sends about about our society, our british society, we should be honouring and respecting the sacrifice made by previous generations. and we certainly shouldn't have the

kind of intimidation that you see in those marches. and so i think her view is pretty clear on this. >> we know her views. we know your views. we know rishi sunak's but it's all talk sunak's views. but it's all talk and no action. are you going to try and put influence on the police commissioner if he says he has the powers or he needs the powers either you say to him you've got the powers, so can you've got the powers, so can you please stop the or you you please stop the march or you say you don't have the power. so we're to introduce we're going to introduce emergency through emergency legislation through the house as the house the house as soon as the house gets back sitting after the king's speech make sure that king's speech to make sure that this can be stopped on saturday? >> well, the there may be questions about that for the longer term, but the law as it stands is that it is for the met to make that judgement. >> you've seen both the comments of the prime minister and the home secretary. i very strongly agree with that as well. i simply don't think this is appropriate. we've made that clear, that position clear to appropriate. we've made that cleemetropolitan )n clear to appropriate. we've made that cleemetropolitan police r to appropriate. we've made that cleemetropolitan police .to appropriate. we've made that cleemetropolitan police . but the metropolitan police. but ultimately we have to respect the operational independence of the operational independence of the police. that's how policing

works in this country and that's how the law is set up under policing acts and others going back, i think, to 1986. >> you've quoted the home secretary there. do you agree with her that homelessness is a lifestyle choice? is well , i lifestyle choice? is well, i want to be in a position where we have zero rough sleeping and to deal with that, we have to deal with both the push and the pull. we all do. but is it a lifestyle choice? >> people who themselves in >> people who find themselves in a they're when if a position where they're when if you just let me explain the position , deal with the factors position, deal with the factors that lead people on to the street, whether drug or street, whether it's drug or alcohol and we've alcohol addiction. and we've committed over £2 billion to addressing that. now, if ultimately people are still on the streets after that and we're having disruption having the kind of disruption that you've seen with these tents and all these other things, we don't want a situation where those spring up across it's right to across the uk. so it's right to look taking those powers. and look at taking those powers. and that's what we're that's that's that's what we're doing. part our doing. and as part of our legislative considerations. >> lifestyle choice the >> but is lifestyle choice the right way to refer to

homelessness ? dowden . homelessness? mr dowden. >> well, i think that ultimately, if there are other places you can go and the government has made sure that there are there are safe places for people to go and people continue to be on the street , continue to be on the street, then we should be able to take those powers them. those powers to remove them. each individual minister is going to choose their exact words. but i agree with the sentiment of what the home secretary is saying, which is let's make people aren't on let's make sure people aren't on the the first place, the street in the first place, because we dealt with the underlying causes of it. if people choosing to people are still choosing to be on the streets, think the on the streets, i think the government should be able to take powers as we take those powers as indeed we had vagrancy act previously. >> should be taking rough >> but should we be taking rough sleepers, well sleepers, tents away? well i think you're talking about measures in extremis. >> what i would much rather our focus to be and indeed our focus as a government has been, is about dealing with the underlying causes, dealing with drug addiction, helping people with with alcohol addiction. but as an extremist power, it's

something that is certainly worth exploring in the way that the home secretary described . the home secretary described. >> let's talk about artificial intelligence, because you're quoted in a press release this morning talking about how we might a future where we're might see a future where we're seeing handing seeing ministers handing over their boxes to a bot. should their red boxes to a bot. should we worried about these we be worried about these developments? i know there's been expressed at been a few fears expressed at the ai summit that the prime minister hosted in week with minister hosted in the week with elon about people losing elon musk about people losing their ai . and their jobs because of ai. and we're now saying that the bots are over the are going to take over the running government. dowden running of government. mr dowden well, first of all, i think we should first of all see ai as an enormous opportunity, the potential to transform humanity, whether it's challenges like diagnosing cancer, alzheimer's and so on. >> we do have to address the risks. and we made progress with that at the summit this week. i think government, though , should think government, though, should also adopt artificial intelligence. it shouldn't be the case that artificial intelligence is driving efficiency across the private sector and the government doesn't do the same thing

ourselves . and that is what we ourselves. and that is what we are doing, whether it's in relation assessing, say , relation to assessing, say, benefit or in helping with benefit fraud or in helping with ministerial red boxes. and what that really means is there's huge amounts of information coming in, condensing that, getting to the facts of it. and then of course, ministers make their decisions the proper way. >> mr dowden, thank you very much indeed joining me this much indeed for joining me this morning. next the morning. now, up next on the show, going be speaking show, i'm going to be speaking to defence secretary to shadow defence secretary labour's he'll labour's john healey, and he'll also hear my also be able to hear my exclusive interview the exclusive interview with the renowned psychologist renowned canadian psychologist and conservative jordan and conservative thinker jordan peterson . on this

radio. this . first, as promised, let's this. first, as promised, let's bnng this. first, as promised, let's bring john healey into the conversation now . conversation now. >> he's the shadow defence secretary. mr healey, it's

lovely to have you on the show. i think it's the first time we've spoken, so welcome to the camilla tominey show. nice to see this morning. keir see you this morning. now keir starmer thought, very starmer gave, i thought, a very confident and courageous speech in week where he talked in the week where he talked about the fact that he did not want call for a ceasefire want to call for a ceasefire because he didn't think that was the right solution israel the right solution for israel and . but he's coming and indeed gaza. but he's coming under increasing pressure, isn't he, some own he, from some of his own backbenchers? others, we've got 250 labour councillors threatening to resign over this issue. threatening to resign over this issue . it's very difficult for issue. it's very difficult for him to , i would say, enforce him to, i would say, enforce collective responsible , even collective responsible, even though he says himself that it's very important he does so in the party. how does he navigate this? mr healey . look, war is this? mr healey. look, war is difficult, as you say. >> keir starmer made a very important speech. it was a speech of a leader he was wanting to take people with him. he was making the big arguments. he was making the big arguments. he said, look, i understand why people are calling for a ceasefire . but first and ceasefire. but first and foremost, that israel has the

right to self—defence . and that right to self—defence. and that means going after hamas fighters as and their missile systems and their command centres so that they can't pose the same terror risk to israel again in the future. but secondly, there's a very strong practical argument and he said not a ceasefire for now is not the right way because the best chance of getting what everybody wants to see a reduction in the civilian casualties and alleviation of the palestinian suffering is by word calling for humanitarian pauses. word calling for humanitarian pauses . it's what the us is pauses. it's what the us is doing. it's what the european union is doing. it's even the un aid chief has called for the same, saying it's the only viable option. and so keir starmer is making a big issue to take people with him. and in the end there is a single common concern in the labour party , concern in the labour party, which is to see the alleviation of palestinian suffering reduce the civilian deaths and get more aid into gaza . i appreciate that aid into gaza. i appreciate that much more likely to achieve that through pauses and not as simply

a call for ceasefire . a call for ceasefire. >> i appreciate that he is trying to keep the party together, but it's not working very well, healey, is it? we very well, mr healey, is it? we read in the mail on sunday today that there are some mps that there are now some mps calling for a vote on a ceasefire. so there's a significant rebellion going on within the labour party on this issue , isn't there ? there isn't issue, isn't there? there isn't a significant rebellion there is a significant rebellion there is a range of different views that keir starmer recognises, but keir starmer recognises, but keir starmer recognises, but keir starmer is not a protest leader. >> he's making the arguments of a national politician concerned to see the best way of achieving what is a common concern about the palestinian suffering and loss of innocent lives. more steps need to be taken to protect those , and it's a leader protect those, and it's a leader who wants to take people with him. but in the end, a collective responsibility, a degree of discipline is required i >> -- >> cd ah, okay. so if a degree of discipline is required because you're obviously looking fonnard, perhaps to leading the country after the next general

election, you're to going have lots of matters of foreign affairs to deal with and you're going to have a number of contrarians within own contrarians within your own party. should they be party. so how should they be disciplined likes of disciplined if the likes of claudia webb this claudia webb keep up this campaign , which goes against campaign, which goes against what the leader is what the labour leader is saying, should she and others lose whip ? well claudia webb lose the whip? well claudia webb is not a labour mp at the moment i >> she's been suspended from the labour party and is under investigation . so look , look, investigation. so look, look, you know, i've been a labour mp, i've been around a long time. i've been around a long time. i've seen and been a part of the labour party when it's been divided and i have to tell you, if you go back one month at our labour party conference in liverpool, that was a unified conference, totally determined and unified in solid parity with ukraine behind . a plan to help ukraine behind. a plan to help people with the cost of living crisis and a determination to get rid for this country of 13 years of a failing infighting government. and underneath both

the difficulties the the current difficulties and the differences over this differences of view over this hard breaking conflict in israel and gaza is a labour party determined to give britain a fresh fruit. >> i know, but i suppose what i'm asking is should others face losing the whip like webb if they express similar sentiments on palestine , on which are not on palestine, on which are not in accordance with the labour leaders, is ? leaders, is? >> well, claudia webb was nothing at all to do with. i know, but she's also expressed. >> she's also expressed some interesting views on the conflict. so i'm using her as an example for some on the hard left of the party. why should people who adopt kind of people who adopt that kind of stance, who go against the labour party actually be disciplined losing whip? disciplined by losing the whip? you've away the whip from you've taken away the whip from a number people, including a number of people, including webb jeremy webb mcdonald lately. jeremy corbyn and others. there are all of the same groupthink. should other mps that express these views against what the labour party leader is saying face similar discipline and sanction .

similar discipline and sanction. >> look, jeremy corbyn is no longer a labour mp either. the mainstream of labour opinion is with keir starmer . i think the with keir starmer. i think the speech and the arguments he made last week will help reassure many others that our single common concern within labour and more widely for people who are anguished by what we see on our tv screens and in the on social media is to see a reduction in civilian casualties, more aid going into gaza. yes and more hostages out . and by that, hostages out. and by that, creating some sort of space and confidence that allows further diplomacy in the long run to try and settle this conflict . and settle this conflict. >> mr healey, i wondered if you might be perhaps more equivocal than, say , unequivocal rather than, say, unequivocal rather than, say, unequivocal rather than, say, unequivocal rather than, say, oliver dowden was when i asked him this question earlier , should this march on earlier, should this march on armistice armistice day on saturday be stopped? yes or no ? saturday be stopped? yes or no? it it will be utterly

unacceptable . unacceptable. >> well, if the march interferes with and disrespects the remembrance service at the cenotaph, so it should go ahead. but we're in a democracy , so but we're in a democracy, so we're in a democracy . we have to we're in a democracy. we have to balance the right of free speech and to protest . it's balance the right of free speech and to protest. it's an operational decision for the police. they are talking to the protest organisers who want to show their solidarity with palestinians, and they're looking at a different place in london at a time. two hours after the remembrance service at the cenotaph . and i hope we'll the cenotaph. and i hope we'll be able to get to a situation where we're not banning the right of protest, but we're absolutely ensuring that the remembrance , recognition and remembrance, recognition and honour of those people who've served and fallen to defend us in this country is fully respected. why do you think that keir starmer seemingly felt the need to take off his poppy when he addressed the muslim community of this country in a

video ? i've absolutely no idea video? i've absolutely no idea whether that's happened or not. if keir starmer was without a poppy at if keir starmer was without a poppy at any stage in this present period, it will be because of something basic like having the wrong jacket or something fell out. so i'm not even sure that what you're telling me is correct . but keir telling me is correct. but keir starmer has a huge and deep respect for our armed forces. they keep us safe and he knows, like i do. we've both served in government, but the first duty of any government it is to keep the country safe and protect our citizens . and very soon after he citizens. and very soon after he became leader three and a half years ago, he declared that never again will labour go into an election not trusted on national security. mr healey, thank you very much indeed for joining for first time on joining us for the first time on the camilla tominey show this morning. >> lovely speak to you .

radio. welcome back to the camilla tominey show. >> now, as i have said throughout the show earlier this week, i spoke to the canadian clinical psychologist and conservative thinker, dr. jordan peterson , who sold the o2 peterson, who sold out the o2 arena for a speech. peterson is an international bestselling author. his 2018 self—help book, 12 rules for life, has sold more than 5 million copies worldwide, and many people, particularly young men, credit peterson with helping them turn their lives around. but he's also attracted controversy with many on the left accusing him of promoting toxic masculinity and even misogyny , misogyny, either way, misogyny, misogyny, either way, he's built a wide and loyal following with millions of followers around the world on his social media platforms . and his social media platforms. and he's become an important figure

on the right of international politics. the other good thing about him is if you ask him a question, he answers it pretty straight. i caught up with him earlier in the week before his speech. see you. thank you for your today. spoken your time today. you've spoken about tilt the world about trying to tilt the world towards heaven and away from hell. life feels a bit hellish at the moment. if you think about the war in ukraine, recent events in israel, we've had a lot of divisiveness on the streets of london in recent days and weeks . do you streets of london in recent days and weeks. do you think that there's a way of reversing the sort of tribalism as associated with, say, identity politics? >> well , we're we're >> well, we're we're experimenting with how to do that on a large scale. this week here in london. so at the conference that that's occurring around us and do i think it's possible to reverse it? i think it's always possible to reverse it. i mean, look, the soviet russia dumped the soviet union, you know, and maybe you're not very happy with russia at the moment, they did decide that moment, but they did decide that that totalitarian was

that totalitarian experiment was inappropriate. it we that totalitarian experiment was inappropriate . it we locked inappropriate. it we locked ourselves miserably for two ourselves down miserably for two years, absolutely pointlessly toying with totalitarianism, copying china, in essence, very rapidly. but we decided that maybe that wasn't such a good idea and backed off. and so i don't think things are ever set so miserable that there's no hope. so and certainly i don't think that's the case with the world right now, because the honzon world right now, because the horizon of opportunity that's in front of us is at least as vast as the horizon of catastrophe . as the horizon of catastrophe. and say . vaster because and i would say. vaster because i think in the final analysis, good triumphs over evil. i think it's more powerful in the final analysis that truth is more powerful than falsehood. virtually by definition, although we do live in this post—truth world, i mean, we've seen around some of the debate around israel this week of people perpetuating falsehoods . people perpetuating falsehoods. >> we also live in this society

now where the prevailing attitude is, if you don't agree with me , then you're not just with me, then you're not just wrong, but you're a bigot and a racist and deserve to be cancelled. so or worse or worse so i think there's a perception that western governments particularly have been weak on woke . they've been weak on the woke. they've been weak on the so—called tolerance, who are actually extremely intolerant. how does the silent majority cope with this? >> well, usually we often too often, perhaps by putting their headin often, perhaps by putting their head in the sand. i mean, that's certainly the case in my country because it's taken multiple dismal turns for the worst in the last eight years. but it's led the liberals there were led by very charismatic leader who is extraordinarily narcissistic and who has used compassion . and who has used compassion. look, if you're really narcissistic and manipulative, the best disguise is compassion. and you can get very good at acting that out. and if you're very good at it, it's very hard to stand against you because you're constant excuse is, well, i'm this for good i'm just doing this for the good of someone else and only of someone else. and not only for the good of someone else,

but for the good of the most oppressed and suffering . you oppressed and suffering. you know, i when i first came know, when i when i first came to some political trouble, let's say in canada in 2016, i spoke up against a bill that i thought was an unwarranted intrusion into the realm of free speech and free thought, which is what it was. but it was guised in the cloak of, well, we're just caring for the least of the lesser which who was in this case people confused about their sexual city and their gender. trans people , let's say. and the trans people, let's say. and the you know, the immediate accusation towards me was that i was hateful and a bigot. well, you know, it's why did you choose this hill to die on? why why don't you care about these poor suffering people? can't you just use the language that would make them feel better? and then if you are also, you know, why are the government's weak on that sort of thing? like i talk to conservatives and classic liberals all over the western world, individual by individual . world, individual by individual. and although this is starting to

change to some degree, they were all terrified of being torn apart by the bloodthirsty mob and no wonder. >> but then that suggests that politicians may have lost their courage . and i'm wondering what courage. and i'm wondering what your analysis is of rishi sunak the mob just got more effective. well, maybe. but you've met with some conservative mps this week. i has rishi sunak i mean, has rishi sunak conservatism lost its way ? conservatism lost its way? >> well, he inherited a mess to, you know, to be fair . and how you know, to be fair. and how bofis you know, to be fair. and how boris johnson got enticed down the net zero road is just beyond me. i think it probably had something to do with his young wife, you know, but he swallowed hook, line and sinker. the apocalyptic that apocalyptic narrative that implied that the only way fonnard into the future was to decimate poor people to and make energy polluting and ten energy more polluting and ten times as expensive, which is rather a preposterous plan as we can see by how it's laid itself out in the uk. and even more stunningly, in germany . and poor stunningly, in germany. and poor sunakisin stunningly, in germany. and poor sunak is in a position where he has to go that looks like it was

a mistake, which isn't really a glorious vision of leadership and i don't really know what he's supposed to do with that mess. now what he's been doing is rolling it back to some degree and you might say perhaps not fast enough. and i suppose i would incline to agree with that. but by the same token, i'm glad not in shoes . what glad i'm not in his shoes. what the conference here this week was designed to suggest, at least in part was a broader vision than the mere vision of oops, it looks like we made a mistake on the energy and environment front , although environment front, although there are some conservative voices . voices. >> you've just touched on this in this interview who feel like they are muted. you know, you hear miriam cates or danny kruger talk about the value of family. and then there are people waiting wings to people waiting in the wings to clamp down on that. you're being sexist. being derogatory sexist. you're being derogatory towards women by referencing their role in a family. towards women by referencing their role in a family . you've their role in a family. you've been scapegoated by the left, some could argue, once described , some could argue, once described i , some could argue, once described , i think as how was it a pseudo intellectual hero to the incel community? yeah because that was

a pretty good line , that one. a pretty good line, that one. >> i mean. >> i mean. >> but what's your reaction to those sorts of criticisms, which must be very hurtful? >> well, they were hurtful for a good while, but after a while they just sort of became comical because more and because they just got more and more and look , every more absurd. and look, every category has a an ideal at the centre and a margin at the fringe and if the centre is destroyed , the margin will be destroyed, the margin will be demolished as well. now the radical think that you can bring the margin to the centre, but that's preposterous because a margin is a plurality and if you bnng margin is a plurality and if you bring the plurality to the centre then you demolish the demolish everything , you demolish everything, you demolish everything, you demolish the category . well, demolish the category. well, look, if you have the nuclear family as the minimal ideal, obviously you simultaneously exclude to some degree those people who aren't in that constellation. now so that bnngs constellation. now so that brings up a real problem which the leftists point out too, is like, how do you have a category, say, with the family, the nuclear family as the

minimal without being minimal ideal without being prejudiced against other people? and something like an and it's something like an informed and humble tolerance . informed and humble tolerance. it's, you know, like there's divorce in my immediate family. you know, and certainly in my extended family , my sisters extended family, my sisters being divorced, my brothers being divorced, my brothers being divorced, my daughters being divorced, my daughters being divorced, my daughters being divorced , every family has being divorced, every family has people in it who are single or who widowed or or or who are who are widowed or or or who are in gay relationships. i mean, the family is an ideal that's breached more than it's adhered to. but that doesn't mean you get to sacrifice the ideal and the ones who are most vulnerable and victimised by the breakdown of the nuclear family are 100% children. so it's plain and absolutely simple. children without fathers, for example, do way worse, way worse. and that if the evidence that's being accrued on that side isn't convincing to you , then no convincing to you, then no evidence about anything ever would be convincing about anything. >> although the alternative view to that would be that you are

stigmatising single mothers by saying that because actually you could have an extremely i am stigmatising single mothers. is that a problem though? if you have empowered have a strong and empowered woman bringing woman who is bringing up a family absence of family in the absence of a father who actually maybe their absence is welcome, maybe the dad wasn't a good influence, you'd arguably off you'd arguably be better off with strong mother than two parents. >> well, we there's obviously exceptional cases where the exceptional cases where the exception is the preferable alternative . alternative. >> yeah, i've certainly had couples for example, or people in my clinical practise for whom the divorce was clearly the right alternative and they were married people were married to people who were narcissistically psycho pathic who making their lives who were making their lives absolute hell. that doesn't absolute hell. but that doesn't mean that you get to escape from the ideal without the price of stigmatise ization. you can do a good job as a single mother, but that doesn't make it an ideal . that doesn't make it an ideal. you not a societal idea. >> you mentioned ignacio ism again. >> i mean, do think that >> i mean, do we think that individual into individual ism has turned into narcissism and that there is a greater prevalence narcis ism? >> june 20th, jean twenge has

>> in june 20th, jean twenge has made that case. >> she's quite a quite a good social psychologist. social personality psychologist. >> described >> i mean, you've described trudeau a narcissist. >> i mean, you've described truiwould a narcissist. >> i mean, you've described truiwould youiarcissist. >> i mean, you've described truiwould you describe, for >> would you describe, for instance, and meghan instance, harry and meghan as narcissists i, i have to tread narcissists? i, i have to tread lightly with such categories . lightly with such categories. >> station being a clinical psychologist, you know, i'll leave myself to speculation . leave myself to speculation. well, twangy is the best source on this. and she believes and i think there's some truth in this is that the hyper emphasis, for example , on development of example, on the development of self—esteem at costs in the self—esteem at all costs in the education system, which was a pathology generated by the faculties of education, you know , their has produced , their hides has produced a more a generation of young people who are tilted more in a narcissistic direction. >> can i just ask you about multicultural ism, because we have witnessed some extraordinary scenes on the streets of london. we've had the call for an intifada from london to gaza. we've got a huge amount of division at the moment between some sectors of the muslim community and jews as we've seen an uplift in

islamophobia and in anti—semitism in recent times. does that suggest that multiculturalism has failed ? multiculturalism has failed? well, there was no such thing as multicultural philosophy. >> it's so it's so puerile and what moralise thing and un sophisticate hated that. it's kind of a miracle of stupidity. i mean, first of all, we've always had a multicultural world. that's why there's been wars . all right? so along with wars. all right? so along with multiculturalism , um, goes wars multiculturalism, um, goes wars when the cultures don't get along. so what happens when you import that? well two things. you either import that under a unifying rubric , which would be unifying rubric, which would be something like the melting pot in the united states, or you retain the multicultural divisions. okay and you might say, well, we benefit from the diversity, which is arguably true. know, mean, true. you know, i mean, when i came to london in the 1980s, i went to a reasonably good restaurant and i was fed canned spaghetti . you know, the food spaghetti. you know, the food here was to call it dismal was

an absolute compliment. and so one of the benefits of multiculturalism has been a radical diversification, let's say, in in cuisine. and that's a huge benefit . but if you say, in in cuisine. and that's a huge benefit. but if you think you can import a multitude of cultures without a unifying rubric and not import the problem of interpersonal and social conflict, you're either you're either blind or stupid or both . both. and both is both. both. and both is a dreadful combination . and so, dreadful combination. and so, like, what on what basis does multicolour pluralism become peace? you wave some magic wand and all of a sudden everybody gives up their cultural differences and can live in harmony . differences and can live in harmony. harmony differences and can live in harmony . harmony defined by harmony. harmony defined by what? is there some unifying harmony ? well, if there's some harmony? well, if there's some unifying harmony , then unifying harmony, then multiculturalism isn't the solution . then it's like unity solution. then it's like unity through diversity , you know, through diversity, you know, peace through war or, you know, it's a preposterous it's a preposterous claim . it's foolish preposterous claim. it's foolish andits preposterous claim. it's foolish and it's extreme . and so and and it's extreme. and so and then when there's tension , like

then when there's tension, like there is in the world now, you see the rifts emerge. and why wouldn't they? especially if you're telling people, you know, adhere to the dictates of your previous culture. yeah so it's just a couple more quick questions because i know we're pushed for time. >> um, would a biden or trump administration next time round be for western . world be better for the western. world i mean, if someone put a gun to my head, i'd pick trump . my head, i'd pick trump. >> if there was a gun to my head. track record , you know , he head. track record, you know, he no war under his administration . no war under his administration. and he brought in the abraham accords. yeah, well , i would be accords. yeah, well, i would be pretty happy with another four years of no war and an extension of the abraham accords. does that mean that trump would be my preferred candidate? right. no. and i'm not pleased with biden for a variety of reasons, not least. this is something least. and this is something particularly salient the particularly salient at the

moment at the saudis. i believe , moment at the saudis. i believe, and i have reason to believe this. i believe they would have signed abraham accords two signed the abraham accords two years biden would years ago. yeah if biden would have willing to give trump have been willing to give trump some credit and i believe the democrats didn't pursue saudi arabia that point because it arabia at that point because it would have been inconvenient to give credit. and so they give trump credit. and so they isolated and alienated him when they could have given him some credit. he might have just fidden credit. he might have just ridden off into the sunset if he'd got some credit for what he had done. but they turned him into the monster they needed to fumigate against. and now they have back. and now have the monster back. and now we the situation israel we have the situation in israel right where iran using hamas right where iran is using hamas to agitate the islamic world against saudi arabia, essentially , as far as i can essentially, as far as i can tell, that's what's going on. yes. so i'm not very happy with the biden administration because of that. and i'm also not happy with the democrat in ability to deal woke left . you deal with the woke left. you know, when the squad run by aoc was was promoting the pro—hamas demonstrations in new york. the

white house spokeswoman did come out and denounce them. that was the first time in years, six years. i've talked to many democrats where i actually saw the democrats draw a line. i've asked 40 democrats that i've talked to some on my podcast , talked to some on my podcast, when does the left go too far? not one of them would answer. not one of them would answer. not one, not even robert kennedy. he said, i'm not trying to run a divisive campaign. it's like fair enough, you know, but you could draw a line between you could draw a line between you the communist you and the communist psychopaths, you know , so that psychopaths, you know, so that would be a good start. >> well, hey, final question. >> well, hey, my final question. >> well, hey, my final question. >> of your 12 for >> which of your 12 rules for life do think is the most life do you think is the most important? >> tell the truth or at least don't lie. yeah you know, if people are wondering, even people are wondering, even people who who labour under the burden of genuine oppression, if they're wondering what they can do to set the world right, one of the things you can do to set the world right that you could do is you could stop lying, stop lying . lying. >> good advice to our

politicians . i think that was politicians. i think that was the clinical psychologist and bestselling author, jordan peterson , speaking to me earlier peterson, speaking to me earlier in the week . you can watch an in the week. you can watch an extended version of the interview on gb news youtube channel or .

welcome back to the camilla tominey show now, as promised, i'm joined now by top tory veteran tory david davis. he's the mp for haltemprice and howden. david, i wanted you to reflect, first of all on the covid inquiry. it made the headunesin covid inquiry. it made the headlines in the week most notably for dominic cummings, fruity use of language, but are you like me, a bit worried that this inquiry isn't going to really deliver the findings that we need? it seems to be obsessed with sort of the triviality of the infighting in number 10 and

not really answering any proper questions on our pandemic preparedness . yes, whether we preparedness. yes, whether we would be able to avoid a similar crisis in the future and whether indeed the modelling that was relied upon for the decisions made around lockdown was accurate . it and should have accurate. it and should have been relied upon . should we have been relied upon. should we have taken a more swedish approach? i haven't heard any of these answers yet. i don't know about you. >> well, the one person who's i think talked about it at all is mark woolhouse is the best evidence anywhere . and i evidence anywhere. and i recommend your your your viewers to look up mr woolhouse w o l h o to look up mr woolhouse w o l h 0 us . he's a professor of 0 us. he's a professor of epidemiology in scotland, in edinburgh, and he's actually very sensible. but you're dead right. i mean, this case. i've forgotten his name. who? who's doing all the cross questioning is strong on theatre and completely absence on forensic analysis. i mean, he deals with witnesses really from a very

polar point of view. he was very nice to the deputy deputy cabinet secretary. he was ferocious in his questioning . if ferocious in his questioning. if it was really questioning of cummings now, look, i am absolutely the least the last person in the world to be a fan of dominic cummings. but i don't think it was an intelligent cross questioning at all. all it was about was swearing. was about was his swearing. well, frankly, what does that matter? i mean, know. all matter? i mean, you know. all right. it makes great, great tv. and fun to watch . but and it it's fun to watch. but actually, this inquiry is about stopping us making the same mistakes next time . yes. you mistakes next time. yes. you know, i mean, inquiries always want to pass all the blame . yes. want to pass all the blame. yes. and if you can do that, it's the wrong way to do it anyway. but but it's about stopping it happening again to the tune of hundreds of thousands of lives. that's what rides on this. and it's done not a single thing to actually advance that cause you're right. actually advance that cause you're right . where's the you're right. where's the analysis of the of the previous

preparation? i was in cabinet when operation cygnus, i think it's called, was reported back on. it was a hopeless exercise and only spent about 20 minutes in cabinet. i actually said i think i was the only other cabinet minister than jeremy hunt who spoke and the prime minister and i just said, we need whole day on need to spend a whole day on this, not 20 minutes. you know, i mean, i know you're no fan of i mean, i know you're no fan of i know you're no fan boris i know you're no fan of boris johnson. but at the same time, >> david, but at the same time, with such a lack of preparedness, wouldn't any prime minister themselves minister have found themselves in it to in a pickle when it came to actually handling this pandemic ? actually handling this pandemic? >> yes, they would . there's no >> yes, they would. there's no doubt about it, because nobody's prepared for it. the rest of the world was essentially copying china . i'd never thought i'd china. i'd never thought i'd ever say those words. yeah, it was essentially copying china. we very nearly . and if we'd gone we very nearly. and if we'd gone on our sort of previous scientific advice, we very nearly followed the swedish route . um, nearly followed the swedish route. um, but, but we

nearly followed the swedish route . um, but, but we buckle. route. um, but, but we buckle. we panicked for about ten days. we panicked for about ten days. we panicked for about ten days. we panicked . and if i want to we panicked. and if i want to blame boris for anything, it would for be that. it would be for. for letting his people panic. the truth is , a lot of panic. the truth is, a lot of this has been posed, by the way, as a lockdown versus nothing . as a lockdown versus nothing. and of course, that in itself is stupid because actually it's a whole range of options. you know , the swedes didn't go on partying every day throughout throughout covid. they they behave with common sense . they behave with common sense. they stopped mass gatherings , you stopped mass gatherings, you know, big sports events and whatever . and they made some of whatever. and they made some of the same mistakes as us. but, you know, they went a common sense route. we could have sold that to the public. you know , that to the public. you know, the argument, of course, the other argument, of course, being oh, well, we just being put is, oh, well, we just followed the public, which is probably could have probably true. we could have sold public, sold the argument. the public, look, don't this, don't do look, don't do this, don't do this. let's just protect the elderly. let's just protect the people homes . you know, people in care homes. you know, that would be good idea. for that would be a good idea. for a start, let's let's make sure we do proper research and do what

we did properly, which was successful on vaccines. and so on. there was a middle way in all this. and actually the middle way would probably have been worth tens of thousands of lives and millions of people's futures. i'm thinking of children and university students all that. none of that. none of thatis all that. none of that. none of that is being covered. no worry at all. frankly, if it goes on like this, i'd cancel blasted inquiry. it really is not. it's going to cost hundreds of millions of pounds and it's not to going do anything. >> and also, let's reflect on the fact that sweden's inquiry has already concluded and lessons have been learned. let's just move on to the mail on sunday. i don't know if you've seen it, david. lots more allegations from nadine dorries. we've from her we've already heard from her talking gove cabal talking about michael gove cabal bringing down ideas. you were obviously one of his opponents for the leadership in those days. so perhaps you've got a comment that's true. comment on whether that's true. also, quite serious also, there's quite serious allegations as to suggest quotes from the headlines . the tory from the headlines. the tory party covered up for serial

rapist mp . do we need an rapist mp. do we need an investigation? oliver dowden was party chairman at the time, claims no knowledge of this . claims no knowledge of this. >> yeah, all i've seen the headlines. i haven't read the actual article but well if there is serious evidence of a cover up, then then it should be exposed. there's no two ways about it. it's a it's a rape case, isn't it? from from from what i heard or. yeah. an alleged case. well, you know, there's no argument in the world that can support covering up such a thing. if it's true . now, such a thing. if it's true. now, i know literally zero about that. but but obviously, if i mean covering up a case like thatis mean covering up a case like that is a criminal offence in its own right. so it's probably a matter for the police, not. yes, indeed. i'm going to be back next week at 9.30. >> but up next it's my paper reviewer extraordinaire michael portillo . portillo.

hello there. >> i'm jonathan vautrey here with your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office are a few showers to watch out throughout this bonfire night, particularly for western could be western areas. there could be still at times pushing still heavy at times pushing their across particularly their way in across particularly north—west england, west and wales the bristol wales through the bristol channel western areas channel as well. western areas of escaping either of scotland not escaping either into the second half of the night. could just see a few night. we could just see a few beginning to skirt their way into sussex and kent, lot into sussex and kent, but a lot of other eastern areas will remain dry with some remain largely dry with some clear underneath clear intervals underneath that, some possible. it some mist and fog possible. it will turn relatively will also turn relatively chilly, so for chilly, particularly so for eastern we can eastern scotland, where we can expect a expect some frost. so quite a chilly start new working chilly start to the new working week here. but as we head into monday, it is a day of sunshine and showers many. those and showers for many. those showers frequent in the showers most frequent in the west again, perhaps west wants again, perhaps a few rumbles maybe some rumbles of thunder, maybe some hail heaviest ones as hail in those heaviest ones as well the afternoon, well into the afternoon, just starting to those showers starting to see those showers progress eastern areas of progress into eastern areas of england. a england. but still with us, a good sunshine in good amount of sunshine in between temperatures between them. temperatures around 10 13 c. so fairly around 10 to 13 c. so fairly pleasant if you are in those sunnier tuesday, it sunnier spots. but tuesday, it will start relatively

will again start relatively showery. but we've got this ridge pressure ridge of high pressure that's going its way in going to be moving its way in dunng going to be moving its way in during the day. that will gradually help off the gradually help to ease off the showers, particularly for western head into western areas as we head into the . so turning the afternoon. so turning dry air again, some sunny air here. again, some sunny intervals watch out and intervals to watch out for and enjoy are out and about. enjoy if you are out and about. the also off the winds also easing off throughout the as well . as throughout the day as well. as we into wednesday, though, we head into wednesday, though, there persistent band there is a more persistent band of will be sweeping of rain that will be sweeping its uk . then into its way across the uk. then into thursday, the showers return once again. enjoy your evening by by join join us every night on gb news at 11 pm. for headliners which is three top comedians going through the next day's news stories which is exactly what you need because when the established has gone crazy, you need some craziness to make sense it. to make sense of it. >> so join us 11 pm. every night on gb news the people's channel night on gb news the people's channel, britain's channel channel, britain's news channel is . is. >> i'm andrew doyle. join me at 7:00 every sunday night for free speech nation. the show where i tackle the week's biggest stories in politics and current

affairs with the help of my two comedian panellists and a variety guests. free variety of special guests. free speech nation sunday nights from 7:00 on gb news. >> the people's channel britain news

channel >> good evening. i'm ray addison in the newsroom. our top story tonight, boris johnson has urged israel's allies to stay the course in their support for israel in its war against hamas. the former prime minister toured some of the communities attacked by terrorists on the 7th of october. in an exclusive live interview with our security editor , mark white, he said he editor, mark white, he said he was horrified by what he saw and called on the entire national community to remember those events. >> look at what happened right. remember, this was sadism . this

remember, this was sadism. this was an orgy of brutality and torture against innocent people. people were chased around and the rooms in their houses and shot. now there's a difference between that and what the israeli soldiers are now trying to do in gaza. soto your your point, mark, about what the international community needs to remember is the difference between what israel experienced, the terrorist attack and what they're trying to do now . what they're trying to do now. what they're trying to do now. what they're trying to do now is make sure that never happens again. >> and you can see more of that exclusive interview with boris johnson tomorrow from breakfast at six. and throughout the day on gb news. now, humza yousafs in—laws have arrived back in scotland after being trapped in gaza for more than three weeks. the first minister posted a photo on x and said he's glad they're back home safely. the foreign office is pressing for the rafah crossing to reopen to allow uk nationals to escape

gaza. egypt