hello. hello. oh hello. >> who is it .7 >> who is it.7 >> who is it.7 >> we're here for the show. what show .7 we're filming a television show? we're filming a television show? we're filming a television show . this is a medieval castle , show. this is a medieval castle, you silly man. it's for besieging and swordfighting . besieging and swordfighting. it's not for some so—called television program, but we made arrangements . a strange person . arrangements. a strange person. i am bored of you . you're your i am bored of you. you're your anti—social , nichols. and your anti—social, nichols. and your mother was a vacuum cleaner who let us in? i spit on your gonads. you caught a wicked son of a cabbage hunter. is there someone else up there that i can speak to ? go boil your bottom . speak to? go boil your bottom. can you throw him off the ramparts , please? all right.

ramparts, please? all right. oh right . well . i thought we were getting well. i thought we were getting hugh laurie , second best. oh, hugh laurie, second best. oh, well ,

hugh laurie, second best. oh, well, stephen fry . stephen, it well, stephen fry. stephen, it is lovely to have you here, you silly man. it's lovely to be had here. >> if i may say. i want to know about cricket because you've just become president of the mcc and he has just shown me this tie show. the tie? yes and he claims it's an mcc. >> can you zoom in to that little symbol there? it's the device that says mcc, marylebone cricket club. isn't that 1200in roman numerals? yes i mean, you have to be a member to get that. yes. you buy it from the members shop at lord's. so tell me about cricket, because it's all change ageing and it's a beautiful, beautiful game. it's the still the only game that is very like the only game that is very like the one i used to watch in weston super mare and clarence park in 1948. well that's because we are guardians of the law , the laws of cricket, the law, the laws of cricket, the mcc are the games have rules ,

mcc are the games have rules, cricket has laws. but each tournament will have its regulation rules like where the fielders can be, how far from the bat and so on. but there are laws of cricket which are the same in on a beach in west indies or in a slum in mumbai with stickball or in a village in england or in western super mare. those are the laws of cricket . i mare. those are the laws of cricket. i mean, mare. those are the laws of cricket . i mean, yes , it mare. those are the laws of cricket. i mean, yes , it is the cricket. i mean, yes, it is the same game, but it's like a lot of british institution rules. it's sent its footprint abroad footprint abroad . yes. and has footprint abroad. yes. and has been reinterpreted and often improved upon or at least enhanced in different ways. very proud. the other day when afghanistan beat sri lanka , i afghanistan beat sri lanka, i thought it was an incredible the reach that this and it's getting wider and wider. it's the second most popular sport in the world by quite a long way. obviously. one is football is the first yeah and a lot of that is to do with the fact that it's so. well it's the third religion in india

. they call it the third religion. absolutely crazy about it. and obviously india is about to overtake china as the country with the largest population in the world. so that kind of skews the world. so that kind of skews the statistics a bit. but it's the statistics a bit. but it's the most popular sport in nepal. and i'm a patron of the mcc foundation and our aim is to spread cricket around the world as much as possible . so are you as much as possible. so are you going to get into south america ? going to get into south america? yes, that is that's our next thing. it's not really there. i mean, there's a bit in guyana. of course, we had mark ramprakash and others and who have you know, sort of ancestors from there. and guyana provides the west indies with cricketers because it's caribbean . yeah, because it's caribbean. yeah, true. but yeah, we want to if you can find a flat bit and, but it's yeah. rwanda kenya recently the foundation went to the lebanon and talk eight syrian refugees who are penned up in camps with nothing to do at all

but turned to kind of crime and misery and upset and to teach the girls and boys in particular. it's fantastic because a lot of these countries are countries in which girls have low expectations of their lives as far as education, property rights and so on are concerned. and if you can get girls and boys playing cricket together, yeah, it's absolutely wonderful . there comes an age wonderful. there comes an age when they'll separate out into a girls a boys team, but girls boy and a boys team, but when they're young, it helps the boys respect and like the girls spreading into the east. spreading into the middle east. yes, is . and i suppose we can yes, it is. and i suppose we can also talk of the terrors in the middle east. we're speaking on a day knows what's going to day who knows what's going to happen when this actually is broadcast. we're speaking broadcast. but we're speaking on a when they announced this a day when they announced this to , diabolical news about to me, diabolical news about golf , which to me, diabolical news about golf, which is a game i love as well . and the saudi arabian well. and the saudi arabian influence in it . it's all money. influence in it. it's all money. stephen so because this is a free speech haven, i can talk about the behind this with because this is the only the

strongest words will do. sometimes the hypocrisy i know worse one. but i will tell you i'd love to hear it. no i'll write it. i've got it out of my system now. that's the main thing. but no, it does upset me, you know, and the history of what saudi arabia has done in the last 5 or 6 years. and now to be i know it's a cliche word, but sportswashing is essentially it . and the chances are by the it. and the chances are by the time you're watching this, that lionel messi will be playing for saudi arabia as well as cristiano ronaldo and others . cristiano ronaldo and others. it's amazing what money will do is i mean, when you think that london was the number one centre for the laundering of russian dirty money, i mean , it didn't dirty money, i mean, it didn't make me feel proud . no, they make me feel proud. no, they called it boris stan for a time. yeah when none of us entirely we wide eyed and naive about the world. we know that the world. and it has always been the case

that money talks. and. and at everybody has a price to some extent. you know what napoleon said? no, go on, he said. extent. you know what napoleon said? no, go on, he said . the said? no, go on, he said. the surprising thing is not that every man has his price. no it is. yes, yes. i would have said the same. how low it is. i think that's hilarious. i've always thought the greatest power a human being can have in negotiations , whether it's as an negotiations, whether it's as an actor in like in a film as minor as that, or in a huge boardroom way, the greatest power you can have is the power to walk away just to be able to say, no, that's for not me and go. but i know some people in business who will say that the first thing you sense when you sit around a table say about the sale of a company or the, you know, the going public, you know, the share offering is you instantly know the greedy ones and they're the ones you want to have nothing to do with who are in it to make money. and it, you know, i am in that sense very naive in the in the early , early 90s,

the in the early, early 90s, late 80s when i was aware that the internet was going to happen and i became very excited by it. and through the 90s i became very excited about it and we'd have lots of meetings with people who had ideas and had the really good ones wanted to make something extraordinary, you know , like an artist or a know, like an artist or a craftsman , like someone who just craftsman, like someone who just wanted to make a better pair of shoes or make a better table. just the pleasure, the fun, the fulfil of it. and then you started to notice because the internet caught fire, that people were in it to make money, that the first thing they wanted to do was to build a service or a piece of software that they could immediately sell to, you know, bill gates or to somebody else. and then it got worse . it else. and then it got worse. it got it got worse . yeah. there's got it got worse. yeah. there's a word. and this is in a sense what saudi arabia is doing with sport is the darkest word of our

era, i think is the word disruption . it's it sounds disruption. it's it sounds simple. it'sjust disruption. it's it sounds simple. it's just the latin for break, break, break down, break up, break into pieces. break, break, break down, break up, break into pieces . and to up, break into pieces. and to disrupt like you interrupt you break into someone's conversation and you get a rupture . it's a break and so on. rupture. it's a break and so on. so in two thousand and seven, when on facebook was beginning to take off, mark zuckerberg famously said that the motto of facebook is move fast and break things and this was considered a heroic new stance. these young people were coming in, they were breaking up the way the world was and an and they were making huge sums of money out of it. they were inventing new ideas and they were sweeping away everything from the past. and so you disrupt the bread and breakfast space? yeah with airbnb, you disrupt the car,

hire and taxi services with uber , you disrupt, you disrupt, you disrupt . and we're now living in disrupt. and we're now living in a broken world because things have been disrupted and they've not been replaced with anything like and they've been disrupted by people who just want to be very, very rich . yes. and not to very, very rich. yes. and not to do one thing superbly well . and do one thing superbly well. and the betrayal to me, the betrayal, the hypocrisy, whatever your word is, that somehow how we believed in the 90s and early 2000 that these guysin 90s and early 2000 that these guys in jeans and t shirts were just kind of, you know , gentle, just kind of, you know, gentle, sweet people who wanted the world to be better . yeah. sweet people who wanted the world to be better. yeah. and we now know that that in orwell's madness decent image, the pigs are now wearing trousers , you are now wearing trousers, you know. you know, the end of animal farm. they look through and they see the pigs. yes and it's all come around and. and you realise these are worse in

terms of their fierce greedy . terms of their fierce greedy. but can you have you ever understood why people want to be so rich? we all want to be able to have a better bottle of wine or we all want to have a nice car or maybe a slightly bigger house. but i think the point of being very rich is to be able to tell people that you are very rich essentially , i think it is rich essentially, i think it is a display. it's very fashionable these days to look into genetics and ancestry and to picture our ancestors as in a cave or in a field or, you know, hunting and gathering . and we know that some gathering. and we know that some some part of being human is acquisition is territorial acquisition. and whether it's land building a castle like this as a display as well as a defence and money is a defence as well as display, it protects

you from everything in the world as a castle. but why such huge sums of it ? i as a castle. but why such huge sums of it? i don't as a castle. but why such huge sums of it ? i don't know. as a castle. but why such huge sums of it? i don't know. i suppose when you get a huge sum competitive with each other, that's the point. i was going to say. join a sort of club in say. you join a sort of club in which you know people in the suburbs might say they've got a better lawnmower than i have. i'm going to have to upgrade my lawnmower . i'm going to have to upgrade my lawnmower. i'm going to have to upgrade my strimmer and all the sort of suburbia things keeping up with the joneses, as we call it. it's a very we've talked about that all our lives. we know it as a phenomenon, you know it as a phenomenon, but you scale up, you simply it scale it up, you simply scale it up.and scale it up, you simply scale it up. and we know this is true. i mean , i can still picture the mean, i can still picture the moment when i was nine and i found an old macintosh , an old found an old macintosh, an old raincoat. people used to wear them. yeah. and it had a ten shilling note in it. them. yeah. and it had a ten shilling note in it . and the joy shilling note in it. and the joy , the absolute joy . yeah. now , the absolute joy. yeah. now what you can't do is scale that joy up- what you can't do is scale that joy up. if i if i then found £100,000 in a coat, i would be

astonished . yeah. i would go, astonished. yeah. i would go, wow. but i wouldn't be. well, ten shillings is half a pound so i wouldn't be 200,000 times happier than when i found that £10 note. but people think it's more is better. £10 note. but people think it's more is better . they £10 note. but people think it's more is better. they do. i mean alcoholics think more is better. yeah. yeah but there are many aspects of humanity where we are boundif aspects of humanity where we are bound if we're honest, to inspect ourselves, to say, i get that, i feel like that. but also i don't feel like that. i've always been very lucky with alcohol, for example, i do like alcohol, for example, i do like a drink, i like wine. but i know i could never be an alcoholic . i i could never be an alcoholic. i just don't enough. just don't like it enough. i don't like feeling sick. i don't like having to cope with the responsibilities of apologising. the day , if i've been the next day, if i've been drunk, i don't like the fact that i might get a bit argumentative . and so i just, argumentative. and so i just, you , could never be an you know, could never be an alcoholic, but could lots alcoholic, but i could be lots of do of other things that i do recognise my faults in. and similarly with money. i mean, i like having enough money. i'll

be honest, to turn left on an aeroplane. i think it's the most i still get excited by it . i i still get excited by it. i still think, oh my goodness, i'm going first class and i love it . going first class and i love it. i mean, i just love it and it's a disgrace. and i know i shouldn't and i try and do this awful word , carbon offsetting. awful word, carbon offsetting. and that's the key word. enough, enough. and that's the key word. enough, enough . exactly. a sense of enough. exactly. a sense of enough. exactly. a sense of enough. exactly. a sense of enough . so these very rich enough. so these very rich people have no sense of enough life. yeah. yeah can you do you understand it? i mean , it's an understand it? i mean, it's an illness, isn't it? it is an illness. and i. i wrote a sort of autobiography about myself which tried to address my propensity to overdo things myself, but not. not in money terms. but i noticed that from the. i was the same . i was what the. i was the same. i was what we. it's awful what generational wars, you know, you say, baby boomer and millennial. and i just want to throw up when i hear all this . i'm sort of late hear all this. i'm sort of late imperialist. hear all this. i'm sort of late imperialist . what exactly? i imperialist. what exactly? i mean, it seems so weird. but

anyway , i am a baby boomer and anyway, i am a baby boomer and the technical sense and so i was born in the same year as sugar puffs . the cereal. right so i puffs. the cereal. right so i should never forget that i was of a generation for whom television advertising was first directed towards me when i was young to eat sugar puffs and ricicles and frosties and sugar free things and i went to a school which had a tuck shop , school which had a tuck shop, you know, a boarding school. and there were things like sherbet , there were things like sherbet, fountains with sherbet in it , fountains with sherbet in it, white powder that you, you , you white powder that you, you, you sucked in through a liquorice straw and, and they even extraordinarily had spam galleon rolling tobacco, which was coconut shreds. but it was done exactly like a rolling tobacco packet that you would see you'd see grown ups using and you would have a pipe made of liquorice and you would have cigarettes with red tips on the end, which were candy cigarettes

. do you remember all these sweets? probably sweets? well, you're probably a generation older. you didn't have . no, there a they have quite. no, there was a they were you being prepared were so you were being prepared for cocaine and tobacco, essentially . you were given essentially. you were given white powder and tobacco. and i never could eat enough of that. and i would break out of school bounds. go to the village shop and buy all the fruit salads and black jacks and foamy shrimps and little rice paper, flying saucers and stuff. myself and i couldn't eat them. and i got teeth missing here because of it. and then when i was a teenager, there was still so i, i had this empty hole in me. this vast empty hole that said feed me, i need this shoe to i need it. and then when it wasn't sugan need it. and then when it wasn't sugar, it became tobacco . and i sugar, it became tobacco. and i smoked. and then in my 20s, it became cocaine. it became that i just and i couldn't sit still without going. ha you know, and it's that addictive impulse that many people, many people watching will know what i mean . watching will know what i mean. many people won't because this is an important thing to

remember. i say, not remember. as i say, not everybody , and everybody has this, and it's a kind addictive gene . and i kind of addictive gene. and i guess the people have it guess the money people have it for money. there's this hole in them. to acquire and them. they have to acquire and they have to own and they don't know how it . no, no. know how to fill it. no, no. they think if i had another 500 million, i'd be happier. yes. well, this is it. one of the things you know a lot about, you know, psychotherapy and things like that. and one of the things that always maddened me about self—help and books on self—help books and books on debt is, is the ones that start off with goal orientation and set yourself goals. and i think it's the most dangerous and despicable inimical thing imaginable because i don't know a human being who, when they reaches a goal they've set themselves, isn't dissatisfied. absolutely. always an anti—climax. and you have to know it's so many of the nobel prize winners get very depressed when they win the nobel prize. >> i can imagine. >> i can imagine. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> because. because what do they do apparently

do next? yeah. and apparently the great chess players always get very depressed after huge energy . yeah. energy. yeah. >> so these guys here, they can see there they are. they're getting to the end of their game, though. i can see. yes. >> one of them's got two queens. yeah .

the dinosaur are with me. >> john cleese on . gb news is >> john cleese on. gb news is there any way we could say you've got enough now ? you've got enough now? >> well, it's going to be very interesting because we for the past few hundred years, all of us have used to the idea that we fulfil fill ourselves by by work. if we're lucky. it's good work. if we're lucky. it's good work that does fulfil it. but that's not going to be true for very long. and it isn't something that was true in the past. the work was not a normal thing to do. >> you said to an 18th >> if you said to an 18th century that, well, an

century artist that, well, an aristocrat , certainly that's aristocrat, certainly that's true, but you know what i mean. they would have thought you were mad. and i suppose one has >> yeah. and i suppose one has to. i'm talking about before the agricultural revolution, which is not very long ago in terms of the of our existence as a the length of our existence as a species, as a viable species . we species, as a viable species. we could go back in time before , could go back in time before, before the agricultural revolution and shag someone from that era. and we would have babies. you know, we are the same and, and same species. yeah. and, and then we didn't work. this idea of work , the agricultural thing of work, the agricultural thing meant we had to stay in one place. and suddenly peasants became, you know, subject to the people on horseback and class and hierarchy was established. but, but it's coming again because of artificial intelligence. there will be much less need to work. and there's always this problem. i've been i've been thinking about artificial intelligence since the 80s because i used to get very excited by this man, marvin minsky , who was the often called minsky, who was the often called

the father of ai . and i used to the father of ai. and i used to read his essays and books and things and his forecasts have proved very no, no, they haven't. but his analysis of what intelligence is and what it might be, i think was interesting . and one of my interesting. and one of my heroes, richard feynman, who i'm sure you know, the great physicist and he made a terribly good point about when someone asked him whether artificial intelligence would come and whether men machines would think like us. and he said, no, they won't think like they will won't think like us. they will never us. when we never think like us. when we make machines, make them to make machines, we make them to do we don't do , not do things we don't do, not things do . so, for things we already do. so, for example, we can run. but when we make a bicycle, we make something that is totally different, that goes a bit faster actually, but it can't . i faster actually, but it can't. i mean, the perfect example is a cheater. that's the fastest land animal. goes around 70 miles animal. it goes around 70 miles animal. it goes around 70 miles an hour or something, isn't it? well, begin and we well, we can't begin and we wouldn't even think of trying to imitate make a machine like a cheetah. it would be ridiculous . cheetah. it would be ridiculous.

so instead, we invent a wheel and eventually an engine and then eventually an engine that wheels . and that can push the wheels. and it's nothing like a cheetah, but it's nothing like a cheetah, but it can faster a cheetah. it can go faster than a cheetah. so it's our version. and similarly with intelligence, we won't imitate it. human won't try and imitate it. human intelligence. we will find as we are beginning to do , we will are beginning to do, we will find ways of assembling and sorting data which isn't really intelligence, but it produces results that are way beyond us. just as a car produce his results way beyond a cheetah . results way beyond a cheetah. but it's in a different sort of achievement. but it will do. i mean, i think governments are beginning to get wise to this . beginning to get wise to this. the ubi, the universal basic income is the thing that we're trying out in this country now in two regions, as in finland , in two regions, as in finland, they've tried it out in the whole country. essentially the money that artificial saves in terms of labour costs , white terms of labour costs, white collar labour costs as much as

blue, that that money goes into giving everybody an income . giving everybody an income. yeah. so they don't have to work i >> -- >> and then how did it work in finland? >> i think it worked well. finland is still the happiest country on earth , so it can't country on earth, so it can't have done too much harm. yeah, i mean, it's it will like anything. it will change and develop and but you know, the cynics say i did a lecture on al about seven years ago, hay on wye and i talked about the possibility of a universal basic income and things like that and a lot of people asked the question, so are you saying that we've got to become poets we've all got to become poets and potters paint us and and potters and paint us and artists ? and i said, well, no, artists? and i said, well, no, although that would be quite pleasing. it obviously isn't particularly viable. who's going to buy the wretched stuff that we make? but we do have to think about what people will do. we have this sense that there is idleness and that idleness is a terrible thing, but actually , if

terrible thing, but actually, if you read bertrand russell's famous essay on idleness, which i'm sure, you know, maybe, maybe it's a very a very wonderful thing and will yield enormous fruit , wonderfully, wonderfully fruit, wonderfully, wonderfully liberating for everyone . liberating for everyone. >> yes. once they get used to the fact that they have to find out what they're interested in. yeah. when i first went to america, i was fascinated by how important work was, and i came back after about a year and a half, and i remember getting on a tube at the evening standard and there was a piece in it by rj air, one of the great philosophers. >> yes, the logical positivist. >> yes, the logical positivist. >> i still remember that . what >> i still remember that. what he was saying was that the first people who went off to america, new england, were the puritans as and when they sort of sat down and said, well, what could we do? they said, well, shall we have a dance? no, we can't do that. no theatre . and what else that. no theatre. and what else could we do? we played cards . could we do? we played cards. no, that's not allowed. so in the end, the only thing they

could really do was work out. and i've still see a very strong puritan streak in america, hugely between good and bad. i mean, i don't like smoking and i'd rather it didn't , but the i'd rather it didn't, but the savagery with which the non—smokers will persecute the smokers is just stupid. yeah so what is there anything there in that? what were we talking about with work? i mean, in fact, can't we just play cricket or read books and will be wonderful? >> the trouble is, i personally have been poisoned by the work ethic in that i am addicted to it. i have above my desk a quotation from noel coward, which is work is more fun than fun. and i've been very lucky to find that. so and if i have a day off because you're doing something that is enjoyable, it really enjoyable. >> i mean, there's two, three types of work. there's work you hate and then there's work you

love. and then there's work where you like bits and don't like other bits . and so you try like other bits. and so you try to do as much of the things you like and as little of the things you don't like. but all you don't like. but it's all like but you love your like that. but if you love your work, you want stop ? >> exactly. >> exactly. >> if you can presumably the new problem is, well, what do you what work? what do you count as work? >> what i count as work. >> exactly what i count as work. other wouldn't . a lot of other people wouldn't. a lot of people say fabulous people would say how fabulous that retire or how that i'm going to retire or how fabulous longer working. that i'm going to retire or how f'canous longer working. that i'm going to retire or how f'can garden longer working. that i'm going to retire or how f'can garden . longer working. that i'm going to retire or how f'can garden . i longer working. that i'm going to retire or how f'can garden . i would er working. that i'm going to retire or how f'can garden . i would i'dvorking. that i'm going to retire or how f'can garden . i would i'd ratheri. i can garden. i would i'd rather eat my own legs than than dig and fork and be a monty don. but he obviously enjoys it. and lots of people do . and they wouldn't of people do. and they wouldn't like doing the things i do , you like doing the things i do, you know, writing and things. as you know, writing and things. as you know, writing and things. as you know, writing is agony . i mean, know, writing is agony. i mean, absolute agony. >> people feel for the >> people i feel sorry for the businessmen because they really are motivated by money. now, when you give them all the money that they could have earned if they'd hard, they're they'd worked hard, they're going to be a terrible going to be in a terrible position . position. >> you talk about age is very interesting because in philosophy, he he and his fellow

vienna school, you know, the scientist artist types basically felt that ethics as a branch of philosophy had died. it was no longer a particularly interesting it was you could teach it in universities, you know , and things, you know. but know, and things, you know. but then technology , energy, bio then technology, energy, bio biotechnology , as well as the biotechnology, as well as the internet and other things have meant now that people can leave university with a masters or a doctorate in ethics and they'll get a six figure opening salary at big corporations because ethics is at the heart of the problems that we're talking about. how do you decide what is an ethical well, artificial intelligence ? how do you decide intelligence? how do you decide what is an ethical way to lay people off work and to keep them happy ? happy? >> nafions happy? >> nations are studying this really seriously . really seriously. >> they're trying to i mean, there has been wave of firing there has been a wave of firing in silicon valley lately, and some ethicists have gone. but i

remember seeing a berkeley university, you have to say that. see the pronunciation? yes berkeley. you know what a graduate is called ? a burke. graduate is called? a burke. presumably . but there was presumably. but there was a philosophical quarterly from berkeley magazine and it just said at the top philosophy. no longer just a stylish route to longerjust a stylish route to poverty . question mark suddenly poverty. question mark suddenly it was becoming the hottest discipline in universities philosophy . and it is exciting philosophy. and it is exciting because there is so much to think about and all of us are free to do that. >> are the bill gates's thinking about it. he does. he does . about it. he does. he does. >> metaphor man, i think, isn't he ? he? >> but the ones who really spend all this money trying to get into space on their own rockets. well they follow a branch of philosophy that is not very academically fashionable or or admired, which is objected ism, which is the philosophy of ayn rand. >> you know, the sort of

libertarian philosophy of the fountainhead and atlas shrugged , fountainhead and atlas shrugged, which are more popular now than in her own time. peter thiel for example, who's a very powerful investor and all kinds of things. he's a great admirer of ayn rand. and there's a new philosophy called longtermism , philosophy called longtermism, which sounds rather admirable. we've thought bad thing we've always thought bad thing about politics so short term, but this totally different but this is a totally different thing. this the future thing. this regards the future of humanity in hundreds, if not thousands of years is the most important thing we can think about. important thing we can think about . and a few well, a few about. and a few well, a few pandemics and diseases and climate change are pinpricks in in the long history. climate change are pinpricks in in the long history . after all, in the long history. after all, the ice age wiped us, most of us out. but but it gave a small cadre of surviving humans the chance to become our ancestors . chance to become our ancestors. and they think very hard about that. and there's, you know, there's a lot of paranoid fear that that's why , you know, musk that that's why, you know, musk and bezos and people are wanting to go to mars or is it? they

know the earth is absolutely doomed ahead because the image i have is we are children playing on the beach. yes. making sandcastles with our back to the sea and on the sea , various sea and on the sea, various currents are combining . they currents are combining. they are, for example , are, for example, bioaugmentation brain machine interfacing, which is something elon musk is doing where you interface with the computer and a computer with you. so it reads your thoughts and you can control with your mind. if control it with your mind. if you itself , you like robotics itself, quantum computing and artificial intelligence of different kinds is new materials or nano nanomaterials. and so on. all of these technologies which are transformative on their own , not transformative on their own, not to mention genomics and gene editing are like separate swells in the ocean that are combining to make a giant romantic tsunami and as i say, we are playing on the beach wondering about little things , you know, like this

things, you know, like this particular strike or whether what names we call ourselves, what names we call ourselves, what our identities are. there are these tiny little issues that we are obsessed. >> what's the tsunami? >> what's the tsunami? >> the tsunami is the combination, the confluence of all these technologies, all all changing each other. >> so you mean life will be transformed in a way we can't begin to guess? yes all right. let me ask you this question. yeah. the a lot of social media is just awful, people being unbelievably nasty to people. if you post something on social media, surely it would be very . media, surely it would be very. easy to have an identification on on that post, which would tell you who'd posted it, which would shame people into posting a lot of the nastiest stuff . a lot of the nastiest stuff. yes. why don't they do it ? yes. why don't they do it? >> well, in the case of twitter, you know, musk is a libertarian free speech absolutist. he calls

himself . and i think he would himself. and i think he would regard any regulation which enforced something like that , a enforced something like that, a denial of anonymity and the right to anonymity. >> the denial of anonymity. >> the denial of anonymity. >> i agree with you . >> i agree with you. >> i agree with you. >> you're not forcing it on people. what you're saying is if you want to post something, you have to tell people who you are. >> i think it's a mixture of genuine sense that they want it to be a free space where people can comment without being got at, for example , because the at, for example, because the problem is, you know, you might you might express a view in some of the hot button issues of today. you might express a view on gender and something like that and you will get upon on both sides. it doesn't matter which side, but that's the problem about expressing a view anyway. well, it is it is. and so anonymity gives a sort of confidence to some, but the confidence to some, but the confidence to some, but the confidence to terrible people, as we know, it's a disaster. and i'm of course, i put things on

twitter, as you do. i used to you don't anymore . you don't anymore. >> no, no. >> no, no. >> i'm afraid once mr musk got there, i just felt. no and this is why you mustn't believe anything i say about the future . anything i say about the future. because i believed when in two thousand and seven, when i joined twitter and it was just starting , i believe that it starting, i believe that it would melt away by boundaries and divisions and the old problems. and that we would all be brothers and sisters . be brothers and sisters. >> the problem with technology is there are always good people who will use it for good reasons and then there are rather bad people who will use it for bad reasons. yes and that's true of everything ever been invented. >> i look at the good berg's first printing press, and you look at it that is capable of printing the poems of john keats or mein kampf. it doesn't know any . no. so there's any different. no. so there's mein kampf . mein kampf. >> chi—chung has every invention has a good and a bad. and yes, it has no beginning. everyone's so excited about it. they only see the positive . see the positive. >> that's right. technology >> that's right. the technology itself i think the itself has no i think the technical term would be moral

technical term would be no moral valency. yes. know .

it's artificial intelligence is always seemed to me the great problem in science is if you can't measure something, you think it can't be scientific . think it can't be scientific. >> like science is about measuring things, right? and sometimes they invent things like behaviourism , which is all like behaviourism, which is all about the business of being able. yeah, right. to measure things and not about anything else. a very interesting . right. else. a very interesting. right. almost everything that goes on in here is very, very hard to measure. >> yes, it is very hard to quantify and human beings robbed of their emotions by an accident and able to cope despite the fact they completely logical still because they don't have emotions helping them to make

decision. >> how does that apply to i don't we wouldn't if it's going to really take over , wouldn't we to really take over, wouldn't we have to give it at an emotional range to motivate it , which we range to motivate it, which we have no chance of giving it? >> well, again, i would return to that point of feynman's that we would do something that was like an equivalent to what we have has been brilliantly have now. has been brilliantly described by critics as not intelligent or anything remote like intelligence, a stochastic parrot, right, is the phrase thatis parrot, right, is the phrase that is used of the kind of chat gpt four and these kinds of thing that have become very popular. they are essentially a probabilistic guess at what the next thought should be based on its ability to access a vast corpus of data , which depends on corpus of data, which depends on there being such a thing as the internet that has this data electric sonically available. all of the speed of light except and so the next step artificial general intelligence, as it's

known, would add that require sentient a sense of self consciousness. would would the system be aware that it was a system? of course, at the moment it parrots that it's aware. i cannot answer that question because i am just a large language model. it says when you ask it something , you know, ask it something, you know, delicate, this is when people are worried about what's called the singularity, when it suddenly becomes aware of itself and whether this would give it and whether this would give it an actual emotion in the way that our brains have emotions or an electronic equivalent, that's to say, a sort of need of some kind, a need to do something or a need to make itself something that it isn't, because in a sense that's the human not even an animal thing. i mean, you look at these lovely animals and what one of the things we love about animals , i think, is that about animals, i think, is that they up in the they don't wake up in the morning terrible about morning feeling terrible about yesterday and how they let themselves down. you know, a

tree frog spends 100% of its time being a tree frog. it's a human spends living in the present. yes. >> they're in >> they're living in my daughter's acquired daughter's just acquired a completely dog. i have completely blind dog. i have a friend with it and it's ecstatically happy now. and it's wonderful because it doesn't wake up in the morning thinking i wish i wake up in the morning thinking iwish i had wake up in the morning thinking i wish i had a couple of hours or i wish i was a cat, you know? >> i mean, we as humans , we wish >> i mean, we as humans, we wish to other things all the time . to be other things all the time. we are just so dissatisfied with our so much these our teach us so much these things they do. >> and i think the value of pets is they bring us into the is that they bring us into the present when we're stroking present that when we're stroking a cat or playing with a dog, we're totally in the present , we're totally in the present, which is where happiness lies. it is. >> absolutely right . >> it's absolutely right. >> it's absolutely right. >> i'm thinking of damasio. do you remember tomas antonio damasio book about the guy who'd had his who had a perfectly logical brain? that's right. but he couldn't make any decisions because his emotional intelligence had been rendered him . so i'm saying if it's going him. so i'm saying if it's going to if they're going to take over the us, they to

the world for us, they have to develop an emotional intelligence which will tell them how to do that . motivate. them how to do that. motivate. no, no . no, no. >> i think that's like saying a car has to develop legs if it's going to be like cheetah. the going to be like a cheetah. the point won't be like going to be like a cheetah. the prcheetah, won't be like going to be like a cheetah. the prcheetah, but|'t be like going to be like a cheetah. the prcheetah, but it be like going to be like a cheetah. the prcheetah, but it be go like a cheetah, but it will go faster. it's its style of faster. but it's its style of going forward is not legs and similarly, a computer style of sentience wouldn't need to imitate a human one just as a car doesn't need to imitate a cheetah or indeed a human if you don't and a robot won't won't be a walking android type thing unless we want that for fun. but that's not the way it needs to be. sometimes you imitate nature . of course, people love to imitate geckos for sticking things , all the rest of it in things, all the rest of it in nature , obviously has had nature, obviously has had millions of years to practice and fail and practice and fail and fail and practice and fail and practice and fail. >> but basic rule of >> but the basic rule of computers, am i right, or is this old fashioned in shut out? >> yes . gigo this old fashioned in shut out? >> yes. gigo garbage in, garbage out was the polite way of putting it.

>> how can they go beyond what we put in them? >> well, they look elsewhere. that's one of the things the internet has is that we internet has done is that we don't into that. it don't put anything into that. it goes out and looks for it. we tell it to look, oh, oh, i see. >> it's got to look. >> it's got to look. >> it's got to look. >> it scans the world of data and not to look for anything in particular. no, exactly. not to get anything particular. i mean at the moment you have to remember that what you're looking is, let's say gpt looking at now is, let's say gpt four, which is the sort of publicly available second version of the openai bot, as they like to call it. that is like looking at karl benz car in 1895, jolly impressive. look at that poop. poop poop. it can go ten miles an hour. it's amazing what it will be next year and the year after. and in ten years time, look at what the motor car became. look at how it transformed everything about our lives and our cities and our countries. >> because the people inventing a lot of people who motivate us

to make them better. and also you have to remember an enormous number of people who loved their horses , looked at it and said, horses, looked at it and said, it's pathetic , it'll never catch on. >> it's been said, i mean, i remember when i first heard it. no, all that. remember when i first heard it. no,and all that. remember when i first heard it. no,and there's at. remember when i first heard it. no,and there's a. remember when i first heard it. no,and there's a human if you if >> and there's a human if you if the cars are improving , it's the cars are improving, it's because there's some human who wants to make them better. yes so i'm aware. does that emotion i want to do this for some reason come from if he can't make a decision, if our emotional faculties are not tasked to make itself better , tasked to make itself better, it's tasked it's tasked to make itself better. >> yeah. even the ones we have now, things like chess. >> there's no element of the human mind over there in chess. so you can always come up with a computer that will beat a man eventually . yes. and its memory eventually. yes. and its memory is better . eventually. yes. and its memory is better. and it can play all these games and find out what works, what work. yes. works, what doesn't work. yes. so you got that. but when so you got that. yes. but when you're dealing with things with us, an element of the human

emotion involved in order to create a decision. >> the point is it's artificial intelligence. we're not making human intelligence in a machine . human intelligence in a machine. we are making artificial intelligence . no, but i'm intelligence. no, but i'm asking, is it limited ? asking, is it limited? >> is it limited in what it what can achieve? because it can't decide to do something because it wants to? >> yes . probably it wants to? >> yes. probably limited in that it will. we hope that it will remain something that takes instruction. we hope so. yeah. that it won't say, i want to paint a ceiling and it then produces something better than the sistine chapel because i have a need to do it . the sistine chapel because i have a need to do it. but but, but given the exponential way it will improve, improve itself if write code to improve itself and continue to improve . i continue to improve. i understand, given that it's very hard to make a stable and safe prediction . prediction. >> question yeah. cricket yes. >> question yeah. cricket yes. >> actor cricket. there you are.

>> actor cricket. there you are. >> what was the point of the hundred? we've got 20 overs, which is 120 balls. now, somebody says , no, we'd be somebody says, no, we'd be better if we only had 100 balls. do we got to go slowly down till the match has been pared down to about 30 balls for each innings , about 30 balls for each innings, right? yeah. and then all the rest of the time we can watch rockets going off and it's money. >> of course it is money. it's advertising . it's getting people advertising. it's getting people in the ground . in the ground. >> and what's the difference between 100 and 20 balls and one 100? >> it seems not much. but sometimes these things do make a difference. i personally not a huge fan of the 100 some people i know who are real cricketers and absolute lovers of the game think fantastic think it's a fantastic innovation. thought it was innovation. i thought it was cricket who didn't cricket for people who didn't like . well, to like cricket. well, it's to introduce who don't like introduce people who don't like cricket cricket and then see cricket to cricket and then see maybe gateway drug. maybe it's a gateway drug. >> it's not a game, it's a marketing exercise , right? marketing exercise, right? >> kind of, yes. i mean, i'm

afraid that's the way things go because. because grounds might otherwise be empty. and so the only way you can fill them is to market game . you can't you market the game. you can't you can't expect them . can't expect them. >> i love test matches and i love the county championship. people of our generation do. >> think have to be >> but i think we have to be realistic younger realistic about getting younger people into it and they want to spend an evening fun in spend an evening having fun in kind of in the way americans go to a baseball game. and i know it sounds terrible imitate. it sounds terrible to imitate. no, it sounds terrible to imitate. n0, , it sounds terrible to imitate. no, , another another american institution. >> yes. it's for people with limited attention span , if you like. >> that may well be your sweetie teacup . teacup. >> bless you, dear man. >> bless you, dear man. >> i'm sure i've talked nonsense, but it's been enormous i >> -- >> able to edit you very , very >> able to edit you very, very heavily. yeah >> no, it's great. it really is . >> no, it's great. it really is. >> no, it's great. it really is. >> it's been fabulous to chose anyone. >> it's been fabulous to chose anyone . one of those cats you anyone. one of those cats you like and take it with you. tell me that would i would . and now. me that would i would. and now. now time for a song.

>> they say that life is fleeting . like some shoddy fleeting. like some shoddy central heating. first your toast, then your mostly in the cold, cold. there are some who say it's ruthless that we end up bald and toothless . yes, but who bald and toothless. yes, but who admits the benefits of getting . admits the benefits of getting. old mother nature is a pensioner . and though we shouldn't mention her, she carries on as though she's gone berserk . work. though she's gone berserk. work. we aspire to this endeavour that world peace will reign forever for. but how can it when the planet doesn't work like . planet doesn't work like. i can't wait for the apocalypse ? can't wait for the apocalypse? lips the atmospheric esoteric whistle stop a clips there's a

cost of living crisis. peppa pig is joining cost of living crisis. peppa pig isjoining isis. cost of living crisis. peppa pig is joining isis. there's bugger all to live for. >> so we're ready to die. i >> so we're ready to die. i >> i can't wait for the apocalypse . shapps. what kind of apocalypse. shapps. what kind of blunt and jubilant atomic clock is this? there is no second coming. just a bog with lousy plumbing. >> we don't need a horoscope to certify high. >> that the end of the world is nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh. nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh . night night is quite nyeh. night night is quite alluring and to me it's reassuring that the bunfight over sunlight is adjourned for a oblivion is jolly . there's no oblivion is jolly. there's no need to bring a brolly for extinctions, a distant action to be yearned . it's quite common be yearned. it's quite common for an earthling to expect a fresh rebirthing re—embark as

joan of arc or mao tse dong . but joan of arc or mao tse dong. but if you dream of smut emerging on a cloud of 80 virgins when you signed out, you will find out you were wrong . you were wrong. >> i can't wait for the apocalypse shapps the fine and dandy cotton candy lollipop eclipse. >> there are demons, swinging axes, but at least you won't pay taxes . so bring on armageddon taxes. so bring on armageddon cos we're ready to fly high. i can't wait for the apocalypse . a can't wait for the apocalypse. a final pucker from the with the proper lips . let the universe be proper lips. let the universe be blasted. it was spiffing while it lasted. >> so let's wave a metaphysical goodbye. >> oh, we for the end of the world is now via .

world is now via. next time on the dinosaur are it's making the point that not only is cancel culture real, but it's so bad we're going to be studying it in 100 years. >> it is odd when you think about it that there is an ideal erg which has become a dominant value that nobody is allowed to question . question. >> we didn't vote it in, right? i mean , i mean, when you think i mean, i mean, when you think about it, it's like really no one's allowed to question this, but you do. >> white right , heteronormative . >> white right, heteronormative. from a colonialist nation, you imperialist, you go into exactly. >> you go into this terrain with some severe baggage on your side. >> are you going to be problematic again . love that

word. >> there's also people who think that the key to saving the world is less and less freedom of speech. >> yes, you would think we would have learned a bit from galileo

next >> good evening. i'm ray addison in the newsroom . our top in the newsroom. our top stories. the home secretary has expressed her full backing for the met police ahead of the armistice weekend during a meeting with sir mark rowley. suella braverman told the police chief she was confident that any criminality will be dealt with robustly. the force says an exclusion zone will be in place covering areas, including whitehall and horse guards. parade effectively banning those on pro—palestine marches. parade effectively banning those on pro—palestine marches . the on pro—palestine marches. the prime minister is urging protesters to respect the commemorations as well. rishi sunak faces continued calls to sack the home secretary. she

defied sack the home secretary. she defied downing street by writing an article accusing the police of playing favourites with pro—palestinian protesters . the pro—palestinian protesters. the police federation described her comments as unacceptable . two comments as unacceptable. two teenagers have been charged with racially aggravated criminal damage after free palestine was sprayed onto the cenotaph in rochdale . one has also been rochdale. one has also been charged with theft after poppy wreaths were taken from the base. detective chief inspector stuart round said the damage has caused emotional distress in the local community. israel's military says more than 100,000 palestinian teens have moved from north to south gaza in the last two days. tens of thousands are thought to have made the journey today after the israel defence forces opened an evacuation corridor . the evacuation corridor. the deadune evacuation corridor. the deadline for that is over and it's not yet clear when the next pause in fighting will begin . pause in fighting will begin. now west has scrapped about £7.6