him? mr shapps no, i haven't. to him? mr shapps no, i haven't. >> i haven't managed to speak to him. i understand he is okay. and, you know, clearly he shook him and we have seen i'm him up and we have seen i'm afraid , some some pretty afraid, some some pretty appalling behaviour. you talked about the banners , but the about the banners, but the chants as well , saying , you chants as well, saying, you know, from the river to the sea, things like this, which are clearly anti—semitic tropes. now michael gove has spoken against that kind of anti—semitism and he seems to be being targeted because he spoke against hate crimes. yes, it's pretty despicable to see that kind of behaviour . behaviour. >> mr shapps, i know you're jewish. i know that your constituency has got many jewish voters in it , constituency has got many jewish voters in it, but how are your community feeling at the moment? how does it feel to be defence secretary and a jew and witness what's been going on on the streets of london over the last four weeks? as you. >> yes, i'd say i'm sort of british i'm jewish, as you british and i'm jewish, as you say, i that one of the say, and i think that one of the great things about britain is

that broadly speaking, a that we are, broadly speaking, a very tolerant country. in fact, i'd say probably of the most i'd say probably one of the most tolerant democracies, the tolerant democracies, if not the most the world. and i would most in the world. and i would hate to that brilliant part hate to see that brilliant part of our society lost, which is why a day like today when we're remembering the war dead, remembering the war dead, remembering those who serve our country in the military, but actually also in the civilian services , i think is really, services, i think is really, really important . services, i think is really, really important. i'm services, i think is really, really important . i'm very, very really important. i'm very, very proud to be british and i'm proud to be british and i'm proud to be jewish. i think that this country is a great place to live. it's only around the margins as you see some of these very extreme activities. and the way deal with that is to way to deal with that is to clamp it and make clamp down on it and make examples of people who do or wantonly break the law and support, for example , scribed support, for example, scribed terrorist organisations like hamas. and if you do that, then i think we'll find we'll get back to the things which make us so brilliant and so tolerant as a nation. >> in would you like to see groups, groups like hizb ut—tahrir , which have been some ut—tahrir, which have been some of the groups that have been

leading some of the chants that have been offensive to jews? have been so offensive to jews? you from the to you mentioned from the river to the also seen hizb the sea, we've also seen hizb ut—tahrir here be talking ut—tahrir to here be talking about jihad on streets of about jihad on the streets of london. is it time for some of those groups to be banned because banned in other because they are banned in other european countries? shapps european countries? mr shapps yeah , and i know that there's yeah, and i know that there's constantly sort of review that constantly a sort of review that takes place into all of these different organisations and, and that's right to happen. >> i'm sure when , when the >> i'm sure when, when the analysis of these marches and these protests have been carried out, there'll be more information to decide. so look, i leave that to a very proper system that's in place to decide which organisations are banned and which are allowed. but you know, as i say, you know, people going around and shouting jihad. i've seen this sort of idea that somehow it can be okay. i don't see how it can ever be okay, to be perfectly blunt. and i think that we need to make sure that examples are made where people don't feel they can do that with

impunity . impunity. >> i mean, so you disagree then with the police because the police response to calls police response to the calls for jihad a recent protest was to jihad at a recent protest was to say, oh, there are very many different meanings of jihad. what's your interpretation of the word jihad? >> think that was >> yeah, i think that was entirely wrong and it wasn't clearly intended intimidate, intimidating language, deliberately designed to stir up hate and hate crime itself is a crime. so i, i don't agree with that particular interpreted version, but i do i just want to put on record my thanks to the police who do an incredibly difficult job trying to arbitrate between all of these different groups and factions and say a lot of it is takes us away from the main point of this weekend. and i'm here in the ministry of defence, just across the road from the cenotaph , the road from the cenotaph, where i'll be returning in a moment because all here to moment because we're all here to remember the bravery of people who've provided the ability for us have free speech. but free us to have free speech. but free speech does not include celebrating the murder of men,

women and children or intimidating other sections of society. and that is where we draw the line quite properly . draw the line quite properly. and it's why we want to see action that is firm and proper taken to prevent and to create examples that you can't do that on the streets of this country and get away with it . and get away with it. >> final question, mr shapps, because i know you have to leave now and go to the cenotaph. do you think we're doing enough in our schools to educate children about poppy day? there was some research in research this morning in the sunday suggest that sunday papers to suggest that children necessarily children don't necessarily understand the meaning of remembrance. to be remembrance. do we need to be doing more in the national curriculum? perhaps not just on that, also affairs in the that, but also affairs in the middle seen a middle east? we've seen quite a lot displayed by lot of ignorance displayed by younger people on the streets of london weeks. younger people on the streets of lon i on weeks. younger people on the streets of loni think weeks. younger people on the streets of loni think valways a good >> i think there's always a good argument more and more argument for doing more and more of things. quite of these things. i'm quite reassured. i went to a school on friday in my own constituency in welwyn city, and was a welwyn garden city, and it was a primary school and they were learning in learning all about poppies. in fact, designing and fact, they were designing and drawing when i entered drawing poppies. when i entered

the classroom. so actually one of the good things i think that has happened over the last several years now is that poppy day has become or remembrance has become, i think, a notably bigger thing in our society. has become, i think, a notably bigger thing in our society . and bigger thing in our society. and it's quite right that it should be and fantastic that people remember the sacrifice . nice of remember the sacrifice. nice of people who've laid down their lives. children should definitely learn about that, as well as my own constituency . i well as my own constituency. i was pleased to see they were just was pleased to see they were jusimr shapps, thank you so much >> mr shapps, thank you so much for time out of what for taking time out of what i know is a very busy morning for you as defence secretary. now i'll be back with you in just a moment remembrance sunday moment with a remembrance sunday special. let's get special. but first, let's get the weather. >> hello there. very good morning jonathan vautrey morning. i'm jonathan vautrey here gb news weather here with your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office and foggy office it's a frosty and foggy start for some us, but it is start for some of us, but it is going to turning increasingly going to be turning increasingly wet thanks to this wet and windy. thanks to this area low pressure in the area of low pressure out in the atlantic and its associated fronts that are pushing their way from southwest. way in from the southwest. already heavy already bringing some heavy areas spreading

areas of rain spreading into parts wales and parts of england, wales and northern ireland. some of the fog northeast england fog across northeast england into linger into into scotland could linger into the first part of this afternoon. but once it does clear, will see sunny clear, we will see some sunny spells here. spells developing here. temperatures generally in the realms of 7 to 13 c. but feeling quite cold where the fog does unger quite cold where the fog does linger and underneath the most persistent cloud and rain for this evening, we'll watch this band of rain push its way northwards , eventually reaching northwards, eventually reaching areas but we've got areas of scotland. but we've got another rain pushing another area of rain pushing in from southwest. again , from the southwest. this, again, turning wet across turning things very wet across england into northern england and wales into northern ireland. later with some ireland. later on and with some very winds pushing in very strong winds pushing in across as well. amongst across this as well. and amongst all and rain, it's all the cloud and rain, it's going be a milder night for going to be a milder night for most us. but still across most of us. but still across parts scotland, getting parts of scotland, getting down into single figures, into mid or low single figures, the of this rain for the detail of this rain for monday is still a bit uncertain, so worth up to so it is worth staying up to date with the forecast, but it will be a widely unsettled will be quite a widely unsettled morning that area of heavy morning with that area of heavy rain moving some sunshine rain moving in, some sunshine and feeding in for areas rain moving in, some sunshine an england feeding in for areas rain moving in, some sunshine an england feewales1 for areas rain moving in, some sunshine an england feewales1 for .on1s rain moving in, some sunshine an england feewales1 for .on in of england and wales later on in the but a swathe of the afternoon. but a swathe of gales pushing through here. so still very unsettled showers and

quite northern areas still very unsettled showers and quscotland northern areas still very unsettled showers and quscotland as northern areas still very unsettled showers and quscotland as well. hern areas of scotland as well. temperatures chart temperatures on the chart between and 15 c. hold on between 10 and 15 c. we hold on to unsettled theme the to the unsettled theme into the middle week as well middle part of the week as well with more sunshine and showers by . by. by >> good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey show. we've got a special programme for you this morning to mark remembrance sunday. be with you until sunday. i'll be with you until 1130 as well as a host of big political guests, i'll be speaking to veterans, our reporters across the uk and of course, we'll be bringing you the coverage of ceremony at the coverage of the ceremony at the coverage of the ceremony at the a little later. i'm the cenotaph a little later. i'm going be speaking to sir iain going to be speaking to sir iain duncan the former duncan smith, the former leader of the conservative party, who's a veteran himself, having served in ireland of in northern ireland and of course, asking him for course, i'll be asking him for his take what happened in his take on what happened in london yesterday and indeed the suella braverman saga , as well suella braverman saga, as well as reaction to everything

as his reaction to everything that's been on this that's been going on this morning . we'll also get a view morning. we'll also get a view from labour party. i'll be from the labour party. i'll be speaking formerveterans speaking to former veterans minister caplin, i'll minister ivor caplin, and i'll be by liz mcconaghie. be joined by liz mcconaghie. she's got an astonishing story. she's got an astonishing story. she's raf veteran who served she's an raf veteran who served in afghanistan and in both iraq and afghanistan and she's basically the longest serving female chinook helicopter crewman in the history. but since leaving the military, she's struggled with ptsd . so we'll be hearing all ptsd. so we'll be hearing all about her journey as, let's be honest, today is about the veterans and former defence secretary michael portillo . my secretary michael portillo. my fellow gb news presenter , and fellow gb news presenter, and nicholas owen will be with me in the studio as we bring you the live coverage of events at the cenotaph. now nicholas owen joins me now to have a look through the papers. he of through the papers. he is, of course, former bbc news and course, a former bbc news and itn presenter. nicholas, lovely to see you this morning. thank you for taking the time. um, we're going to do the paper review a little differently and give remembrance give a kind of remembrance weekend a way, the weekend digest in a way, the sunday express summed up what happened very well in happened yesterday very well in its dignity and

its headline dignity and dishonour. give us a summary of what we've seen so far. nick. yes well chosen words indeed . yes well chosen words indeed. >> and i'll tell you something that struck me this morning with the spread of newspapers that that we can see. it's one of those quite rare occasions when every paper had the same story on its front page. yes, there wasn't any descent into the fripperies of news, if you like. everybody agreed this was the major story of the day. the scenes to be expected. i think once we knew that we're going to have big demonstrations by those in favour of the palestinian cause , i don't think anybody cause, i don't think anybody quite realised what was going to happen at the cenotaph itself . i happen at the cenotaph itself. i was driving back home last night. i'd been at an event and people had been hearing things and seeing things on their phones. they said the palestinians have stormed the cenotaph. i thought, oh my goodness , i do hope that is not goodness, i do hope that is not the case. and of course, it turned out not to be the case. it's of it's this other rabble of nutters i call them that ?

nutters may i call them that? who came up with the most of the trouble ? but not only then. trouble? but not only then. let's be clear . there was also let's be clear. there was also trouble by people who wished to draw attention to the palestinian cause and the light of what's happening in gaza. letting off fireworks . yes, letting off fireworks. yes, i think it was in belgravia. another part of london, and several policemen were hit in the face. i have a policeman son in the metropolitan police who has done his share of this sort of duty, not doing it now, i'm so pleased to say, and always awful when policemen get hurt. but in the big scale of things, you know , when we look back, i'm you know, when we look back, i'm old enough very much to remember the poll tax riots back in margaret thatcher's days. they were really serious disorder on the streets . but what we saw the streets. but what we saw yesterday, whatever you think of the palestinian cause and so on and this fringe , people in that and this fringe, people in that saying awful things but but based hinckley, you had a peaceful demonstration by 300,000 people, which actually and actually the policing

operation , as you say, to operation, as you say, to basically cordon off the cenotaph seemed to work quite well. >> i appreciate that there was that incursion by some of the far right groups, but at the same time, the cenotaph itself was remained sacrosanct and there was a degree of dignity to there was a degree of dignity to the events around that in comparison to some of the mob marauding that we witnessed. and also, as you say, some of the anti—semitism that formed a part of the palestinian side . there's of the palestinian side. there's still a conversation, of course, about suella braverman . nick i about suella braverman. nick i mean, is that a distraction ? mean, is that a distraction? should we still be talking about the home secretary i'd be intrigued, not least because you're the father a policeman you're the father of a policeman or met policeman. do you or former met policeman. do you think a policeman today still a met policeman? she was very critical the met, saying that critical of the met, saying that they play they pick favourites, play favourites . also. she has been favourites. also. she has been accused by labour politicians, including keir starmer , this including keir starmer, this morning inflaming the morning of inflaming the tensions. what do you think ? tensions. what do you think? >> to be honest, i didn't. i thought suella braverman. sometimes she comes out and she provokes and gets that sort of

discussion going, which is important to do about all sorts of difficult issues. i think she was wrong on this one, to be absolutely honest. i know so well partly because what i've done for a living over the years had of dealings the had lots of dealings with the police, mostly the right police, mostly on the right side, also talking to my son side, and also talking to my son a great deal about all these sorts always a sorts of things is always a very, difficult thing for very, very difficult thing for the a home secretary the police, for a home secretary to attack the police plans in public. i don't think that was a very , very clever idea at all. very, very clever idea at all. i've seen home secretaries in front of police federation, asian police union, if you like , asian police union, if you like, closest they come to it. i've seen them having a very tough time being sort of booed and everything else that's understood that's all understood because that's all about conditions and about pay and conditions and so on. but it comes to the on. but when it comes to the operation leave it to the operation side, leave it to the police. mark rowley , i know him police. mark rowley, i know him well . i police. mark rowley, i know him well. i remember police. mark rowley, i know him well . i remember him when he was well. i remember him when he was chief constable of surrey, which is where i live, and i interviewed him when he was there. he's a most impressive commissioner. we've had a succession of commissioners who've been controversy about them. weren't frankly very

who've been controversy about them at weren't frankly very who've been controversy about them at all. weren't frankly very who've been controversy about them at all. cressidafrankly very who've been controversy about them at all. cressida dick ly very who've been controversy about them at all. cressida dick hadery good at all. cressida dick had a difficult time for various other reasons. yes, this is the best guy for the job at the moment. yes it looked to me as though there was in danger of undermining him. i mean, he's a tough he'll through tough fella. he'll get through it. he will. but it. of course he will. but i don't think it was a clever but there will be always people who will argue. >> think duncan smith >> and i think iain duncan smith was this side of the was on this side of the argument. we're going to be speaking in just moment speaking to him in just a moment that the march just that actually be the march just should not have ahead. should not have gone ahead. and even wasn't for the police even if it wasn't for the police to use the powers that have been given to them by the government to action, one has to try and take action, one has to try and take action, one has to the organisers the to ask the organisers of the pro—police union march why they decided do this when they decided to do this when they knew going to knew that it was going to inflame tensions. they could knew that it was going to inflarmarched ns. they could knew that it was going to inflarmarched on they could knew that it was going to inflarmarched on othercould knew that it was going to inflarmarched on other days. have marched on other days. >> well, suppose could. >> well, i suppose they could. i'll honest with you, i'll be very honest with you, camilla. discussion camilla. this discussion has gone much all our homes gone on so much in all our homes and wherever you go people and wherever you go and people stop the streets to talk stop me on the streets to talk about this. yes. my view is we live a democracy, the live in a democracy, but the people who the people who people who died, the people who served own my own served my own father, my own father second world war,

father in the second world war, my in the first my grandfather in the first world war. what was that world war. what what was that all their service. all about? their service. and for who it was about for those who died, it was about having democracy where you do having a democracy where you do have which often have opinions, which very often you violently as you disagree with violently as long people do it in a long as people do it in a peaceable way and don't break the that is fine with me. i the law, that is fine with me. i know an awful lot of your viewers particularly won't agree with to let's get with that, but to me, let's get on it . let's be with that, but to me, let's get on it. let's be thankful on with it. let's be thankful that we can do this in this country. you go to somewhere like even somewhere just across the channel, you go to france. demonstrations there are deliberate , violent in the most deliberate, violent in the most appalling way. deliberate, violent in the most appalling way . and police appalling way. and police behaviour very often terrible behaviour is very often terrible as well. >> well, the focus of this morning and going to be morning and you're going to be joining a bit later, nick, joining me a bit later, nick, you're joining me. joining me a bit later, nick, you' michael joining me. joining me a bit later, nick, you' michael portilloining me. joining me a bit later, nick, you' michael portillo will] me. joining me a bit later, nick, you' michael portillo will be e. joining me a bit later, nick, you' michael portillo will be on and michael portillo will be on the events this morning. and indeed veterans. and with the events this morning. and inde in veterans. and with the events this morning. and indein mind, veterans. and with the events this morning. and indein mind, cameroni. and with the events this morning. and indein mind, cameron walker, ith that in mind, cameron walker, who's gb royal who's gb news is royal correspondent, is in whitehall. what's the atmosphere there like ? cameron well , camilla, what's the atmosphere there like ? cameron well, camilla, i think there's certainly a sense of calm, rajouri solidarity and

remembrance here on horseguards parade , just shy of 10,000 parade, just shy of 10,000 veterans from across the country have travelled to horseguards parade to mark remembrance sunday and of course take part in that veterans march past different organised actions, including the royal british legion, but also scottish little soldiers, an organisation which supports children who have lost a parent who has died in conflict because they are a member of the armed services and the princess anne the princess royalis the princess anne the princess royal is expected to give the royal salute for that veterans march past. >> following the two minute silence at 11:00. and of course , silence at 11:00. and of course, the royal family has a huge role to play today. it's a very important day in the royal calendar. his majesty the king is commander in chief of the armed forces, both here in the united kingdom and the other realms and territories in which he is head of state. now his wreath is actually going to be very similar to king george, the

sixth wreaths wreath. his grandfather , he's going to be grandfather, he's going to be laying it at the cenotaph, 41 open style poppy petals made from bonded fabric, an arrangement of black leaves, which is tradition traditional for the sovereign . and the for the sovereign. and the fibbons for the sovereign. and the ribbons will be bearing the king's racing colours again as is tradition. scarlets purple and gold. as for her majesty, the queen's wreath, that is going to be laid on her behalf by her equerry. ollie plunkett of the rifle regiment. and that's going to resemble queen elizabeth, the queen mother's wreath as well. so it's kind of harking back to 70 odd years ago when you know, it was kind of almost the last time that that a king laid a wreath at the cenotaph. course, king cenotaph. but, of course, king charles did lay a wreath at the cenotaph this is cenotaph last year. but this is the since the the first time since the coronation so we're also expecting the prince wales expecting the prince of wales to lay the princess of lay a wreath. the princess of wales, duke and duchess of wales, the duke and duchess of edinburgh and the gloucesters are going be here are also going to be here on whitehall the remembrance whitehall for the remembrance sunday service . sunday service. >> thank you very much for that and we'll be coming to you later in the show. and i said,

in the show. and as i said, we're going to be bringing you live all of the coverage from the cenotaph before do the cenotaph now, before we do that, to sir iain that, let's speak to sir iain duncan former leader of duncan smith, former leader of the conservative for the conservative party mp for chingford, green, chingford, and woodford green, and veteran himself. sir ian, and a veteran himself. sir ian, i'll you how on i'll ask you how you feel on a weekend like this , because i weekend like this, because i know served in northern know you served in northern ireland, rhodesia. you lost men, you lost friends. what are your reflections this weekend ? well reflections this weekend? well this this weekend is a peculiar weekend in a way, because although we have remembrance sunday regularly , it's very sunday regularly, it's very rarely, you know, that the 11th falls on the same weekend . falls on the same weekend. >> so on the saturday. so we have had two days in which this is a special a couple of days we've done remembrances up in chingford, where i am at the moment. and more to come later on. i always end up thinking of those who served with me, but also those that didn't come back. my father was a fighter pilot during the last war. five gallantry medals used to talk

endlessly about the people that never returned. young men . et never returned. young men. et cetera. and i, a particular friend i remember, didn't return back from ireland, was very badly treated. was bodies never been found. these sorts of things go through your head as you as you go through these ceremonies. and that's what they're there for their for their to give thanks to their sacrifice. and at the same time to be able to explain to your children and others why people fought to protect freedom. and that's really critical, i think very critical. >> now, i know you were very critical indeed of the pro—palestinian marches taking place this weekend. from what you witnessed yesterday, do you think it was an error by the police to let them take place ? police to let them take place? well i think the police will obviously have to stand by their decision and decide whether they want. >> and i particularly didn't want that march to take place then. it wasn't a case of saying no to marches. you know, they have freedom to march. have the freedom to march. i know that. that's what many know that. and that's what many fought those freedoms. but fought for. those freedoms. but

i over this peculiar and i think over this peculiar and rather weekend, i would i think over this peculiar and rather have weekend, i would i think over this peculiar and rather have hoped kend, i would i think over this peculiar and rather have hoped that, i would i think over this peculiar and rather have hoped that we'd uld rather have hoped that we'd postponed the postponed it. why not on the monday? not on the tuesday? monday? why not on the tuesday? that my concern. wasn't that was my concern. it wasn't a case of pointing fingers. it's just that thought that this just that i thought that this would take away what was would take away from what was a solemn occasion yesterday on armistice day and today, of course, which is remembrance sunday. but i thought that was the right thing to do. and i had rather hoped the police on that ground, on those grounds would actually say, look, not not on this day of days, but by all means march in two days time or three days time, if you wish, and you're at liberty to do so . and you're at liberty to do so. others i know around europe have taken a different view from from us in this regard. and many of them have banned all marches outright i'm asking outright, which i'm not asking for. never have done. it for. i never have done. so it was up the police. i hope was up to the police. i hope that will. this your that they will. this your colleague suella braverman has been criticised that been criticised for saying that the police play favourites. >> she's referencing during covid lockdown, objectors were given no quarter by the police, which we remember .

given no quarter by the police, which we remember. some police officers kneeled in favour of black lives matter and yet this is the stance that they've taken on these pro—palestinian or some say anti—israel marches. are the met police playing favourites ? met police playing favourites? >> i know a lot of police in my constituency and elsewhere who genuinely work hard for everybody in the community and try and protect them all. so i don't think they play favourites over this sort of stuff at all. i think there is frustration that in the earlier marches that took place when there were very much lots of very anti—semitic and pro—hamas placards and there were yesterday , by the way, i were yesterday, by the way, i know others who've seen the marches and said there were quite a lot of anti—semitic posters. and you know, there were of concern, were elements of concern, fireworks . you said all that fireworks. you said all that earlier on. so but the police dealt with both , i think, and dealt with both, i think, and they dealt with i hope and they dealt with them. i hope and believe handed . my view believe evenly handed. my view and concern is a march like that was always a problem in terms of provocation and i know it should be free to march regardless of

whether others dislike it. but i just thought on that day of days we should just postpone that sort thing and just have time sort of thing and just have time to contemplate think about. to contemplate and think about. as i say, those who came as i say, those who never came back, having up their back, having given up their lives country. lives for their country. >> do you make the >> what do you make of the criticism of home secretary criticism of the home secretary from the conservative from within the conservative party fraser nelson wrote an interesting piece for the telegraph friday where he telegraph on friday where he said, are we witnessing the break up of the conservative party are we seeing . party are we seeing. >> no, no. i mean , political >> no, no. i mean, political parties in the uk are coalitions completely , obviously slightly completely, obviously slightly different views, generally coalescing around the main principles about what they believe the same goes for laboun believe the same goes for labour. look at how many labour mps have come out against their own leaders refusal to call for an absolute ceasefire, but instead for humanitarian aid moments. and i think that is critical. first, past the post means you have to arrive with a party ready to govern, whereas pr means you do all that after

the election . so we've always the election. so we've always been a coalition i don't think it's a break up. i think there will be criticisms and there'll be defenders. but i think the main thing is, is the government able to deliver a stable economy and country? and i and a stable country? and i think the key issue think that is the key issue that's going to be at next that's going to be at the next election. but no, i don't think that's going to be at the next ele(conservative i don't think that's going to be at the next ele( conservative party 't think that's going to be at the next ele( conservative party 't “about the conservative party is about to up time soon. but to break up any time soon. but what's your analysis of suella braverman whole situation? >> i mean, you've been in a leadership role, some people even earlier today even grant shapps earlier today on the show has talked about questioning some the language questioning some of the language she's questioning some of the language shewell, i'm a great believer in >> well, i'm a great believer in teddy roosevelt's great view, which is you speak softly and carry a big stick . but i can carry a big stick. but i can understand suella braverman frustrations because she was worried. i had conversations with her before she was genuinely worried that the provocation of 1st march would lead to other incidents and therefore there would be issues and so i think to that degree and so i think to that degree and by the way, the prime minister was very clearly of a very similar opinion, he said that he thought it was disrespectful that maybe

that he thought it was disreshouldl that maybe that he thought it was disreshould be that maybe that he thought it was disreshould be postponed. be that he thought it was disreshould be postponed. and they should be postponed. and i thought pretty much the thought that was pretty much the right to take. so right decision to take. so i don't you get down to don't think when you get down to essentials, was any great essentials, there was any great difference between two of difference between the two of them, that matter, in the them, or for that matter, in the party's general let's party's general view. let's touch events currently touch on the events currently undennay in gaza. >> when the israeli talk about destroying hamas , do you think destroying hamas, do you think that's operationally possible in the short term and indeed politically possible in the long term ? term? >> hamas is a brutal terrorist organisation that is dedicated to the eradication of jews . but to the eradication of jews. but jews in palestine, particularly the chant from the river to the sea is not a nice, gentle chant. it is about eradicating jews from palestine , hamas, from palestine, hamas, hezbollah, all these organisations are dedicated to that. organisations are dedicated to that . one of the problems that that. one of the problems that we've got and we'd all want to see the fighting stop, whether the israelis are able to clear out hamas, i suspect they will do. it's a huge amount of damage to their ability to fight, having wrecked many of their command centres and also destroyed many their tunnels .

destroyed many of their tunnels. whether person will whether every hamas person will be eradicated is highly unlikely . but i think the key thing is that we don't see incidents like we saw at the beginning, back in october hamas was able at october when hamas was able at will to mercilessly kill , will to mercilessly kill, decapitate, burn jewish people, israelis who were peacefully settled or partying , that must settled or partying, that must never happen again . and i think never happen again. and i think thatis never happen again. and i think that is israel's purpose. but whether they can absolutely eradicate hamas, i don't i don't believe so. but there will be many eastern states that many middle eastern states that will quietly will be very, very quietly behind closed angry with behind closed doors, angry with the of hamas . and i the behaviour of hamas. and i think this may be the beginning of hopefully of the of the end, hopefully of the funding support that takes funding and support that takes place, particularly from qatar. >> there going >> but equally there are going to concerns, not least in the to be concerns, not least in the western world, about proportionality and how israel reacts this without too many reacts to this without too many civilian casualties . as we civilian casualties. as we appreciate the argument about hamas using people human hamas using people as human shields. but what does the western world need do to western world need to do to ensure that there isn't too much bloodshed? ian we well keep bloodshed? sir ian we well keep on asking israel is to make sure

that they do absolutely everything to avoid civilian casualties, even altering their targeting if they have any doubts at all. >> and i believe, by the way, that they are trying to do that. i really don't believe that they're in any way wish to target civilians. the brutality of war what is and it is of war is what it is and it is a terrible thing. every time you start fighting in built up areas , you will always have a civilian casualties. i would love, like anybody else, to see an ability to have a ceasefire. but the problem, of course, is that how do you have a ceasefire with an organisation that refuses to accept, to lay down its arms stop killing the its arms or stop killing the other side, that is hamas. hamas has not abide by has said they would not abide by a ceasefire. so that would mean the israelis putting down their weapons only to find they were then shot at more then being shot at and more atrocities take place. so the key is it's a two way key problem is it's a two way process to have a ceasefire. you must have parties willing must have both parties willing to stand by it. i think the best thing we can do at the moment is have pauses and get

have humanitarian pauses and get that in, which is absolutely critical. >> sir ian duncan smith i know you have to now go to commemorations at your local cenotaph in chingford. so thank you for me you very much for joining me this morning. you very much for joining me thispleasure. >> pleasure. >> pleasure. >> there's lots >> thank you. now there's lots more come on today's in more to come on today's show. in a i'll be getting the a moment, i'll be getting the view the labour party and view from the labour party and i'll also be speaking to the veterans minister, ivor

patrick christys on gb news. i'm gb news radio . gb news radio. >> welcome back to our

remembrance sunday special . lots remembrance sunday special. lots more to come as we build up to events at the cenotaph. don't forget in this hour, i'm going to be speaking to a really inspirational veteran, liz mcconaghie. she went to iraq when she was just 21 years old and went on to do ten tours of afghanistan. an you'll be able to hear her astonishing story soon. but first, here's the news with tatiana sanchez . with tatiana sanchez. >> kamila, thank you very much and good morning. this is the latest from the newsroom. the king will lead the nation in honounng king will lead the nation in honouring fallen soldiers during a remembrance day service at the cenotaph . a two minute silence cenotaph. a two minute silence will be observed at 11:00 and wreaths will be laid by members of the royal family. the prime minister, along with other dignitaries from around the country and the commonwealth, a major policing operation remains in place after the disorder on armistice day. defence secretary grant shapps says today is not

about politics. >> there's a legitimate concern at home secretary is perfectly within her rights to call for strict action to be taken for the full force of the law to be used . i'm not really keen on the used. i'm not really keen on the idea that in retrospect, whether it's the leader of the opposition or the labour london mayor, that they then come in and try and politicise this weekend of all weekends should not about politics. it should not be about politics. it should be the and women be about the men and women who've of themselves for who've given of themselves for this is what we this country and that is what we should about. this should be talking about. this weekend . weekend. >> meanwhile, the met police says actively investigating says it's actively investigating possible of hate crime possible cases of hate crime following yesterday's demonstration, hundreds of thousands of pro—palestinian protesters marched through central london, which led to pockets of violence . nine pockets of violence. nine officers were injured, 126 people arrested, including 92 right wing counter—protesters , right wing counter—protesters, as the force has also released images of individuals they're seeking who were pictured carrying anti—semitic stick placards . now the king has

placards. now the king has unveiled bronze sculptures of his late parents at the royal albert hall. the moving tribute to the late queen elizabeth and duke of edinburgh was made as they arrived for the royal british legion festival of remembrance. the life sized bronze artworks were installed as part of its 150th anniversary. the couple was joined by nine other members of the royal family including the prince and princess of wales and the duke and duchess of edinburgh . and finally, a lion edinburgh. and finally, a lion was seen roaming the streets of an italian seaside town after escaping from a circus. the feline sparked panic among the locals when it calmly strutted through residential roads last night after a seven hour effort. it was eventually caught and sedated . this is gb news across sedated. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now back to . camilla wow.

now back to. camilla wow. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show on remembrance sunday. i'll be joined by the former labour mp and former veterans minister ivor caplin in just a moment. i'm also going to be speaking liz mcconaughey. be speaking to liz mcconaughey. she has quite an she really has quite an inspirational story. she's the longest female chinook longest serving female chinook helicopter crewman in raf's helicopter crewman in the raf's history . we'll also be getting history. we'll also be getting updates from the remembrance service at the cenotaph in london and others across the uk as up to the two minute as we build up to the two minute silence at 11 am. now gb news reporter jack carson is at a remembrance event at saint philip's cathedral in birmingham. jack, what's the atmosphere there? i can hear the band playing in the background. hopefully you can speak it. hopefully you can speak over it. jack yeah , yeah. jack yeah, yeah. >> good morning to you. camilla that's the salvation army band. that's the salvation army band. that's short while ago that's just a short while ago marched up here and you can hear playing music in the playing that music in the background people start background as people here start to gather, comes to gather, birmingham comes together every year this together every year for this remembrance sunday service. of

course, people will not, of course, people will not, of course, just in the city, but the surrounding areas as well. the city itself has had a long standing history , not only, of standing history, not only, of course, with military, with course, with the military, with over 8000 in the first world over 8000 men in the first world war going fight in war going over to fight in france belgium in the france and belgium in the trenches , but also in world war trenches, but also in world war two. course, was of two. of course, it was part of the beating heart of britain's industry, as we of course, we fought for freedom the fought for freedom on the continent. of course, here continent. now of course, here in birmingham, as a city, when people are coming together, of course, more recent course, it's more recent conflicts as well, particularly for so many people here around me, i can already see me, that i can already see around me here. the veterans wearing wearing wearing that proudly wearing their ensure that their medals who ensure at that 11:00 silence have a very 11:00 silence will have a very deep and personal moment of reflection , as well as the reflection, as well as the community here. does come together. we are expecting a big military parade. quite the military parade. it's quite the sight when we had the rehearsal earlier of members the earlier of members of the marines royal air force, marines of the royal air force, of and the and the navy of the army and the and the navy as take the salute as well. they'll take the salute from lieutenant and of from the lord. lieutenant and of course, after that course, after after that service. sure to be one service. and it's sure to be one of the spectacles, of course, of

birmingham is the second city as well. so, of course, all those events down in london, events happening down in london, but of course, here in birmingham well, events birmingham as well, those events really people to pay really key for people to pay their personal homage and their own personal homage and personal very much personal respects very much indeed. >> for that. jack, who is at the saint philip's cathedral in birmingham, let's bring ivor capun birmingham, let's bring ivor caplin into the conversation now. he's the former labour mp for hove, who is serving his constituents from 1997 to 2005. also served as veterans minister. he's a former chair of the jewish labour and he's a patron of lgbt+ labour. ivor, thank you very much indeed for your time this morning . you were your time this morning. you were in a government that did good morning. you're in a government under tony blair that did send troops to war. you must have been involved in those operational decisions . that must operational decisions. that must be difficult for a politician . be difficult for a politician. you're sending lads and lasses out. you might not them come out. you might not see them come back. out. you might not see them come back . what you think about on back. what do you think about on remembrance weekend and remembrance weekend and remembrance weekend and remembrance weekend is one of the most important weekends, in my view , in the whole year, and

my view, in the whole year, and i think it's become bigger and better, i think over the last few years because people really do want to attend remembrance events , but at the same time, events, but at the same time, they want to be part of the past and the future. >> and i and i think that's create covid the remembrance day into such an important event as it was yesterday, as well on on armistice day . armistice day. >> reflect on recent events. i know you had this role in jewish laboun know you had this role in jewish labour. you are jewish. some of the scenes that we've witnessed not just over the past four weeks, we saw again, anti—semitic tropes on the streets of london. what's your reaction to that? mr caplan yeah . i think it's disgusting. >> and i think the i think the met police have done a fantastic job in the last 48 hours. i think the key thing for the met police is to try and find the

people who've carried out things that we've seen online in social areas. we've seen on on your broadcast this morning. you know, with with banners that are absolutely 100% anti—semitic, and that is an offence and it needs to be dealt with and it needs to be dealt with and it needs to be dealt with soon and as soon as possible. yes i'll actually flag right now , mr actually flag right now, mr caplan, for our viewers and indeed our listeners, that the metropolitan police on their twitter feed on the website have got images of people they would like identify are like to identify who are carrying these offensive carrying some of these offensive banners . banners. >> there's also a dialogue and a debate about some of debate to be had about some of the representatives the the representatives of the edl disrupting things and making life very difficult for the police yesterday. but from a jewish perspective, mr kaplan, this is very , very difficult this is very, very difficult because community is under because your community is under attack from the left. i've got left wing friends who are hanging their head in shame at those on the left who aren't condemning people who seem to be

glorifying what hamas did on october the 7th. >> well, i think in particular that what we're what we've seen is groups of people saying really rather strange things in relation to what actually happened on the 7th of october. and it seems absolutely wrong that anyone should think that in some ways you can be supporting hamas as and we saw some of that yesterday in the parade in london and we've seen it over the last few weeks. it's not acceptable behaviour by anyone. they are a they are an organisation that has been long banned from the united kingdom and therefore now we all have a duty, irrespective of politics. we all have a duty to understand that and to make sure that what we are saying to , to the wider we are saying to, to the wider world is this is where britain

is and this is what we will do and we will not support in any way hamas . and therefore , we do way hamas. and therefore, we do support what israel has been doing in order to try and stop hamas ever doing this again. that's the key thing. >> do you worry about a resurgence of anti—semitism on the left? i mean, we thought that those days were over with the evisceration of jeremy corbyn at the 2019 general election. then obviously he's had to take a step back from the labour party. but do you worry about this ? because i know that about this? because i know that jews are feeling very unsettled. some even spoken of the some have even spoken of the idea that they would feel safer right now in israel than in parts of north london. >> well, north london obviously has a huge jewish community and has a huge jewish community and has done for years as we all know. >> i, i genuinely think i mean, i you know, i live in hove and we have a sizeable jewish community who we will see this afternoon on at the event there.

but we want to make sure that jewish people can operate in the right way, that they want to do as individuals. now, the right way, that they want to do as individuals . now, the way as individuals. now, the way that this is being carried out by in particular some people is to really try to suggest that in some way , you know, this this, some way, you know, this this, this the palestinian thing is part of this. well, it is part of this. but the key to this is a two state solution . this has a two state solution. this has been labour policy since 1997, and it will remain labour policy as it remains conservative policy for the future and the way that we have to get to that is to bring together the two parties and that's the palestinian authority and israel. i believe we can do that. i'm not sure we can do that. i'm not sure we can do that while netanyahu is prime minister of israel, because he doesn't really believe in that. but for me, as someone who

passion wants to see a safe israel and a safe palestinian authority and that means no, hamas , but it means the two hamas, but it means the two places us working together for the longer term future, not just of the israeli people, but also for the palestinian authority people. >> what's your analysis of sir keir starmer's handling of some of the rebels in his own party who are calling for ceasefires seemingly not able to explain how they would actually work in progress in actual practice ? s progress in actual practice? s when you're dealing with hamas , when you're dealing with hamas, a terrorist group that will never put down its weapons. yeah >> look, there's no question you can't just put down your own weapons and let hamas off the hook. that's what we would be doing if we did that. it's not acceptable. it's not something that the wider international community has any thought for at all. i think the way that it is being handled by the us in

particular has been very good. i think the opportunity for humanitarian breaks in what israel are trying to do in getting rid of hamas, i think is a step fonnard. and i think we should support that. butjust should support that. but just laying down israel's challenge to hamas is not the way to do it. and i think what we have seen in the labour party and we're perfectly comfortable with this is we've seen people who actually didn't really want to be in the labour party . that's be in the labour party. that's changed so much since 2019. i think that's really the heart of this issue . this issue. >> final question, mr kaplan grant shapps, the defence secretary , was on the show secretary, was on the show earlier today accusing the likes of keir starmer and indeed london mayor sadiq khan of playing politics in their criticism of suella braverman's handung criticism of suella braverman's handling of this weekend. do you agree with them? >> i agree with keir starmer and the mayor of london. i don't agree with grant shapps. i don't

think this is about politics. this is about ministers behaving properly and she has mis misled a lot of people in the conservative party. that's up to her and the prime minister to deal with. but from a labour point of view , i think it's point of view, i think it's right and proper to say that the comments she made in the in the lead up to the yesterday were inappropriate for a for a home secretary. i saw that michael heseltine has has also joined in and said that he takes that view and said that he takes that view and i tend to agree with that view that you can't be the home secretary if you want to be a commentator or a pundit in terms of what is going on in politics. that's not how it behaves and it shouldn't be part of what happens in such a crucial week of armistice day remembrance sunday and allowing such a demonstration on although there are some in the jewish community

that welcome her description of the protests as hate marches . the protests as hate marches. >> you know, some people are saying it's a pro—palestinian march, others are saying march, others are just saying it's anti—israel anti it's an anti—israel only anti jew march . jew march. >> well, i've commented on some of that already with with you, camilla. but i of that already with with you, camilla. buti understand of that already with with you, camilla. but i understand why people why people say that. i don't i would never use the phrase hate march , but i have to phrase hate march, but i have to say. but the home secretary did. that's not acceptable. and let's be honest , it irrespective be honest, it irrespective surely the prime minister has to deal with this matter tomorrow morning. and that means sacking her if she won't leave. okay >> thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. forjoining us this morning. ivor caplin . now we're going to ivor caplin. now we're going to go back to cameron walker, who's in horseguards parade , soaking in horseguards parade, soaking up the atmosphere there , soaking up the atmosphere there, soaking perhaps being the operative word . cameron. but guess that . cameron. but i guess that well, the crowds there are building up and we're not now , building up and we're not now, 45 minutes out from the minute's silence, the two minute silence. cameron what are people saying

down there to you ? down there to you? >> well, there's certainly a sense of camaraderie and solidarity here, camilla. we're expecting just shy of 10,000 veterans from all three armed services here at horseguards parade waiting to line up to go on to whitehall to, of course, line up for the two minute silence at 11:00 today because, of course, today is remembrance sunday. and i'm joined by two raf veteran booths gus murray and nicky burdette. welcome to gb news. thank you so much for speaking to me. gus, have you come to you first? first of all, you were born on an raf base. why don't you just tell me about that? >> yes, i was so both my parents were officers in the royal air force. they were based at raf northolt at the time, but i was born at raf halton med centre hospital before it was torn down. so going back there for a basic training, when i joined in zero four was was something quite special. >> it's quite coming from quite a family then. >> it's quite coming from quite a indeed family then. >> it's quite coming from quite a indeed .mily then. >> it's quite coming from quite a indeed . soy then. >> it's quite coming from quite a indeed . so both n. >> it's quite coming from quite a indeed . so both my parents,

>> indeed. so both my parents, as i said, were officers. my father a pilot, my mother father was a pilot, my mother was finance officer. my wife was a finance officer. my wife is also a training officer. wing commander in the royal air force at minute. so a lot of a lot at the minute. so a lot of a lot of military history in my in my family. >> and did you serve in afghanistan? >> i personally did not. i supported military operations from oman for afghanistan. but that's as close as close as i got to it. >> see, and you were deployed to the falkland islands, i believe, for the 30th anniversary of that conflict. >> i was indeed. so i went down in 2012, missed the london olympics here, but took part in the freedom of stanley parade down in the falklands in 2012. yes. and just tell me about what happens when you were medically discharged and how perhaps challenging it was, that transition military to transition from military to civilian life. so i was medically discharged , said medically discharged, said january 2016. and it was a bit of a tumultuous time , was of a tumultuous time, was suddenly thrown into the unknown . i've got to be a civilian . suddenly thrown into the unknown . i've got to be a civilian. but it was a little bit of help from

the royal british legion. certainly helped point me in the right direction to the help that ineededin right direction to the help that i needed in that transition. >> so how important was the royal british legion to you and that and transition ? that and that transition? >> important to me. so they >> very important to me. so they pointed towards the veterans pointed me towards the veterans uk and everything regards to support that i can get and certainly the support that they still lend to families and those who are leaving the service and those is really important work that needs carry on. definitely. >> and tell me about your school friends, jamie hutton . what was friends, jamie hutton. what was he like? >> jamie was was a right cheeky chapin >> jamie was was a right cheeky chap in school and he joined the royal marines. but unfortunately was killed in a training accident down in plymouth where he was with 42 commando in was a really lovely guy, really sorely missed. but to be able to attend his funeral was a right privilege to go in there with a sea of royal marines was just one big family coming together. that's lovely. >> yeah. you were telling me about camaraderie you

about the camaraderie that you have armed forces have in the armed forces particularly. that's such a sad moment like that. >> we're all >> definitely. we're all brothers one brothers and sisters. one big family. all come together family. we've all come together to serve our our monarch and our country . and we've all been country. and we've all been there in the fight and still still fighting this day . it's still fighting this day. it's lovely to come together as one, to remember those who have fallen and, nikki, you were inspired to join the by visiting a museum , i believe with with a museum, i believe with with your parents at aged eight mean what was it about the museum that inspired a career so early on? >> that's right. karen yeah. so i went to the imperial war museum with my mum when i was around eight years old, and there was a waaf in the bunker and looked really glamorous, and she looked really glamorous, perfect perfect makeup, perfect hair, perfect makeup, looked glamorous and sort perfect hair, perfect makeup, lotreally glamorous and sort perfect hair, perfect makeup, lotreally beenjlamorous and sort perfect hair, perfect makeup, lotreally been able)rous and sort perfect hair, perfect makeup, lotreally been able to us and sort perfect hair, perfect makeup, lotreally been able to coped sort of really been able to cope under i thought under pressure. and i thought i quite fancy that, you know, i think could do this job, i can think i could do this job, i can sit have a cup of tea and sit and have a cup of tea and look glamorous under pressure. and in fact, the reality was something yeah something quite different. yeah >> going to say was >> so i was going to say was that the reality? but obviously not. what your first in not. what was your first job in the like? not. what was your first job in

the my like? not. what was your first job in the my first a? not. what was your first job in the my first job was at ten >> my first job was at ten squadron brize norton, so squadron at brize norton, so i worked with 200 engineers and i did air or admin for them did the air or admin for them and it was really, really eye opening. i was i knew opening. i was 21. i knew nothing about anything, be nothing about anything, to be honest, with honest, and working with the engineers frontline engineers was at the frontline of wide aircraft activity was really quite something for a young girl . young girl. >> and what was your highlights? what the highlight of what was the highlight moment of your career ? your career? >> i think it's hard to say really, been really, because there's been moments this , moments like moments like this, moments like the 100, where you really the raf 100, where you really get chance to celebrate and get a chance to celebrate and celebrate sorry, and commemorate . highlights for me . but actually highlights for me are the things that we've done right at time. and that's right at the time. and that's things like evacuating people from afghanistan , that's things from afghanistan, that's things like people from like repatriating people from afghanistan because you don't get to do that twice. get a chance to do that twice. you don't get to go again. if it didn't go right, the first time. so sad so whilst they're very sad moments, they're real moments of privilege and that evacuation from you're talking from afghanistan, you're talking about happened in 2021, about what happened in 2021, quite, quite a challenge, of course, as you say, you have to really kind of get it right,

don't you? absolutely. yes. so we went fonnard to minhad in the uae to bring back the military people after the civilian evacuation was finished. we were as prepared as you can be in the military. and i said aftennards, actually, that a job that i actually, that was a job that i was least for prepared and actually most for . prepared we actually most for. prepared we didn't know what was coming, but we had the skills we knew we had the skills training the teamwork training and the teamwork to do the that needed to be done. the job that needed to be done. >> now, nikki, you have a lot of medals on. why don't you explain to me just perhaps a few of them, i won't ask you to name them, i won't ask you to name them all. it's not a test, but what what the medals that what what are the medals that you've on chest here? you've got on your chest here? >> with the long >> so we start with the long service and good conduct medal with i'm very old with the clasp. so i'm very old and served for 27 years, so and i served for 27 years, so that's after 25 years service. then the meritorious service medal, medals medal, then some jubilee medals from her majesty, the late queen and then we've got iraq, afghanistan , kosovo and afghanistan, kosovo and yugoslavia . yugoslavia. >> wonderful. well done to both of you . so you mentioned the of you. so you mentioned the jubilee medals. of you. so you mentioned the jubilee medals . you've got jubilee medals. you've got nikki. how important is the

royal family's relationship with the armed forces? do you think? >> i think it's quite something, really. i mean, ultimately , when really. i mean, ultimately, when we join up, we pledge our service to the monarch and to the nation . so, you know, the nation. so, you know, without pledging to that monarch, you've got nothing . it monarch, you've got nothing. it forms the basis of your commitment, of your sacrifice for yourself to you and your country . country. >> and it's 11:00 today. who will you both be remembering? let's start with you. >> for me , everyone who has >> for me, everyone who has fallen before, it's a time to remember all the sacrifices that we've made. but as i said , jamie we've made. but as i said, jamie and another friend of mine, stephen, will both be dear to me and i'll be remembering them. >> brit school and what about you, nikki? >> i'll be remembering all our friends and from the friends and family from the military family, but particularly the people we particularly the people that we repatriated. in repatriated. when i was in afghanistan and important is afghanistan and how important is it younger generation it for the younger generation who do not remember, who perhaps do not remember, obviously the wars or the obviously the world wars or the subsequent conflicts since i mean, even the younger generation might not even remember iraq and

afghanistan. >> how important is it to get the younger generation involved in in these of in remembrance in these kind of commemorations in remembrance in these kind of coninemorations in remembrance in these kind of coninem0|it's ns in remembrance in these kind of coninem0|it's really important >> i think it's really important . i mean, veterans come in all shapes and sizes. and what what we don't often see on the news is the work that the military people are doing in the background all our background and all of our security services, actually, we often don't see they're often don't see what they're doing the background. so it's doing in the background. so it's important remember just important to remember just because it because you can't see it, it doesn't not happening. doesn't mean it's not happening. and mean that people and it doesn't mean that people aren't on aren't putting their lives on the every single day. the line every single day. >> thank you much >> nikki guss, thank you so much for speaking us on gb news. for speaking to us on gb news. really really appreciate it. well the king's troop, royal horse artillery will be firing their the start the their guns at the start and the end of the two minute silence here on horse guards parade. as i veterans will i said, 10,000 veterans will be taking in that veterans taking part in that veterans march past as they go on to whitehall, the cenotaph. whitehall, to the cenotaph. >> very much indeed whitehall, to the cenotaph. >> that very much indeed whitehall, to the cenotaph. >> that , very much indeed whitehall, to the cenotaph. >> that , cameron. much indeed whitehall, to the cenotaph. >> that , cameron. we'll indeed whitehall, to the cenotaph. >> that , cameron. we'll beieed for that, cameron. we'll be coming back to you a little later horse guards later in horse guards as the atmosphere mounts. as atmosphere there mounts. just as i listening to angus and i was listening to angus and nikki's story there and how much they've by the they've been helped by the royal british thought british legion, i just thought i'd look up our colleague,

patrick christys poppy appeal i'd look up our colleague, patrnow hristys poppy appeal i'd look up our colleague, patrnow raised poppy appeal i'd look up our colleague, patrnow raised forppy appeal i'd look up our colleague, patrnow raised for the appeal i'd look up our colleague, patrnow raised for the royall i'd look up our colleague, patrnow raised for the royal . has now raised for the royal. british legion £234,202. that appeal is still open. you go onto his justgiving page if you just google patrick christys and poppy, just google patrick christys and poppy, you'll find it. find it. wouldn't it be wonderful if we could try and get that up to 250,000 and try and get a quarter of a million for our veterans? so do go and look up that online. it's also on the gb news website, of course. now, don't anywhere because we've don't go anywhere because we've got come as we got lots more to come as we build to the two minute build up to the two minute silence at 11 am. we'll

christys on gb news and gb news radio . radio. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. i'm delighted to be joined in the studio for the rest of this remembrance sunday special by nicholas owen, who reviewed the papers for me brilliantly former bbc reviewed the papers for me brillitle former bbc reviewed the papers for me brillitn presenter former bbc reviewed the papers for me brillitn presenter and her bbc reviewed the papers for me brillitn presenter and michael and itn presenter and michael portillo, my fellow gb news presenter, but importantly the former defence secretary. before we go to both of them, let's speak to gb news northern ireland correspondent dougie beattie, who's in enniskillen in northern ireland, covering events there. dougie . well, good events there. dougie. well, good morning and welcome to a very wet and windy enniskillen . wet and windy enniskillen. >> this town has had many big relationships with the military over the years. just out the road in castle archdale was the flying boats, the sunderlands, the canadian regiments that were there, lots of polish regiments here in the second world war. they will be represented they will both be represented here along with the here today along with the american consulate and the

taoiseach from the republic of ireland, the irish premier he will also be laying a wreath here. but really today, as much as it's remembering the war dead, it is also remembered because in 1987, the ira put a vicious bomb in here that killed 12 people and injured 63. and the scars have stayed with this town for ever since then. it is very hard thing to get over that someone would have had so much intolerance for the property that they decided to carry out such a heinous terrorist attack at the time. so today will be really all about remembering those that fell , but also those those that fell, but also those that perished during that horrific terrorist attack . horrific terrorist attack. >> okay. thank you very much. that's dougie beattie reporting live there from enniskillen in northern ireland. let me bring in my two very special guests. we've got a special panel for remembrance sunday. michael portillo, defence portillo, former defence secretary, and nick owen, formerly of the bbc and itn.

lovely to see you this morning, chaps. for your time. chaps. thank you for your time. michael, go to you because michael, let's go to you because you've and done it you've been there and done it when were defence secretary, when you were defence secretary, preparing , i would preparing for what is, i would say, one of the solemn say, one of the most solemn events political and events of the political and indeed calendar as you indeed military calendar as you prepare cenotaph . tell us prepare at the cenotaph. tell us what happens behind the scenes because got because right now we've got rishi and other key rishi sunak and other key members of cabinet gathering with the royals at the foreign office. >> well, i think those who gather are very aware of the honoured position in which they are. went along defence are. i went along as defence secretary. it's not it's not even an event for all the cabinet. it's certain people are selected . and of course it's not selected. and of course it's not just the government either . the just the government either. the leader of the opposition is there, the leader, leaders of there, the leader, leaders of the other parties, any party that has more than six mps will have a representative at the cenotaph . so you go into the cenotaph. so you go into the foreign office. this is clearly even for people who are in the cabinet, quite an unusual experience. so there's a certain amount of excitement as well as preparing for the solemnity of

the you want to make the moment. you want to make sure that you look the part at many, many years ago , michael many, many years ago, michael foot, labour leader, turned foot, the labour leader, turned up dressed since up improperly dressed and since then people have had a kind of phobia they want to make sure that they look the part the that they look the part of the royal goes , i think, into royal family goes, i think, into one room. ministers and the one room. the ministers and the other party leaders go into another room. certain amount of excitement. there because you don't often have don't necessarily often have contact the leader the contact with the leader of the snp or leader of the liberal snp or the leader of the liberal democrats so there's a certain democrats. so there's a certain amount of or maybe amount of banter or maybe exchange information , even exchange of information, even maybe little of maybe doing a little bit of political and then in political business and then in comes the matter of getting the, the ducks in a row because it's very important that people should emerge in the right sequence so that they fit neatly into the positions that have been set for them by the cenotaph. prime minister, first, of course, and i think cabinet ministers and party leaders are not the easiest people to bring to order like herding cats. >> i would imagine so. >> i would imagine so. >> so, so all this happens and of course it all happens on an

absolutely precise schedule. i can't remember now exactly , but can't remember now exactly, but it's something like 9 or 1052 that we will see the politicians emerge and then we'll see his majesty the king emerge at 1058. but it's all to the minute timing, and we'll be bringing all of those live images from the cenotaph as they happen later on in the show . later on in the show. >> nick, i'll bring you in because i know you've covered a lot of these sorts of events in your career, but there's also a personal significance for you, your father and your grandfather both in the armed forces. both served in the armed forces. >> that's right. yes. go back to my grandfather for my mother's father. the cavalry father. he was in the cavalry in the world the british the first world war. the british cavalry in a good position, cavalry was in a good position, really, were really, because others were still rushing across still sort of rushing across with sabres and doing terrible suicidal missions . the british suicidal missions. the british army cavalry's job was to pull the guns into position , and he the guns into position, and he would do that. he always loved horses, so ideal job for him horses, so his ideal job for him , set the guns and say , you'd set up the guns and say thank very chaps. and thank you very much, chaps. and he off back. and that's why he was off back. and that's why i'm here today, because of course, survived the course, he survived the experience. then my father

experience. and then my father was the second world war. my was in the second world war. my father been royal father had been in the royal navy before the war, and navy reserve before the war, and so was drafted straight away, so he was drafted straight away, 1939. . he was in 1939. off he went. he was in every theatre that mattered. he was atlantic convoys. wow he was at normandy off the beaches of normandy. all sorts of experiences he had. he was wounded very badly at one stage, at the very end of the war, he was in australia preparing to go to join what was thought to be needed.then to join what was thought to be needed. then the invasion fleet to go and topple the japanese. but that was finished by. >> did he speak to you a lot about it? because i know lots of veterans kind kept their veterans kind of kept their counsel. a certain counsel. it's a certain generation, isn't it, that don't necessarily share war necessarily share their war experience necessarily share their war epres nce necessarily share their war epres ,:e necessarily share their war epres , is necessarily share their war epres , i wouldn't say my father >> yes, i wouldn't say my father didn't talk about it because he had a son who always knew he wanted to be a journalist, who always everybody questions always asked everybody questions and my dad was among so and my dad was among them. so i did quite a lot about my did know quite a lot about my father and he had done, father and what he had done, what i didn't really appreciate. and as well. he and he left diaries as well. he weren't supposed diary

weren't supposed to keep a diary on board but my dad did on board ship, but my dad did like a lot did, and i've read those as well. but what i didn't know died know about until he died way back in 1981, far too young. my dad, his mother, my. my other grandmother. grandmother on the other side. and a surviving aunt have told me the real stories about the traumas that my father suffered, not only being wounded and all the things that happened , but the difficulty he felt actually going to war. they were very open about it. my dad didn't go sort of happily marching off to war and all jolly good. he was bloody frightened, frankly. yes. and it showed in the family. that's the sort of thing that tends to get forgotten about. yes >> it's interesting >> i mean, it's interesting because look at family because i look back at my family history. grandfather, ron , history. my grandfather, ron, was a submariner. and i'm going to you about your tie in to ask you about your tie in just a minute, michael, because my grandfather, remember my grandfather, i never remember a didn't wear his a day where he didn't wear his royal tie. he a uniform royal navy tie. he had a uniform even after he left the services. and granddad would be in his grey trousers in his blue shirt with naval tie and a blue

with his naval tie and a blue v—neck jumper every single day. he went on to be a woodwork teacher in hertfordshire . and teacher in hertfordshire. and equally, there's a story on my other side of my family. my stepmother's mother, was stepmother's mother, ruth, was a auschwitz survivor and, you know, we tried to build up a picture of what she had gone through, the horror of what she went through. and i went to auschwitz for the 75th anniversary of the liberation. there and to piece there and we tried to piece together story, she was together her story, but she was too traumatised to much too traumatised to say much about it at all. how extraordinary. but michael, i know that recently you've been doing your work with the commonwealth's graves commission , actually , war graves commission actually , i was filming in normandy a few days ago and i had the occasion to go to the commonwealth war graves commission war grave at baor , commission war grave at baor, which is the most moving thing. >> it's rather vast at many, many headstones and in common with all the 23,000 sites around the world. i think i can say certainly all the ones that i've visited, it is superb kept. so

every tombstone stone is the same. apart from what is engraved upon it. same. apart from what is engraved upon it . they are engraved upon it. they are arranged in absolutely precise lines and only certain flowers and plants are planted and the grass is left a little long so that it doesn't become muddy with the visitors, the gardens are beautifully kept and there is a central monument, but as you walk along the lines of the tombstones, what was so striking was the names of each person killed . and so often aged 19, killed. and so often aged 19, aged 20, age 21, killed . on the aged 20, age 21, killed. on the 6th of june 1944, or on the 7th of june 1944. these these men were killed as they as they hit the beaches for the liberation of europe. and the work that is done by the commonwealth war graves commission in maintaining these these graves, all around these these graves, all around the world is exemplary . and i the world is exemplary. and i think they mean a great deal to

people because so many go to visit the graves of their fathers, their grandfathers. this is an enduring interest and i think they are so gratified when they arrive there and find that these places are perfectly tended with enormous respect for the dead. >> also, i think when you see the scale of how this goes, this is quite something, isn't it? we're just hearing there the military bands piping up as crowds gather . as you can see on crowds gather. as you can see on the radio, we've got the white horse scene is building now as we prepare for the two minute silence at 11:00. now, i'd like to bring into the conversation an extraordinary woman. we're delighted to have her on the show. as i said earlier, remembrance sunday really is about speaking about veterans and what we'll be talking about remembering today. she was a chinook helicopter crew member and is a veteran of the wars in iraq and afghanistan. she first served at the age of 21. liz, i hope you can hear me. we're so delighted to speak to you this morning. i'd like to begin by

just asking you , what do you just asking you, what do you think about and what do you remember on remembrance sunday? liz >> well, for me, you know, i served for ten operations in op herrick in the chinook force as a whole. we deployed there the entire duration of that campaign. and part of that duty was in hartford, connecticut , was in hartford, connecticut, something we collectively , the something we collectively, the veterans of the sorry, a lot of the soldiers off the battlefield who had been injured and many of course, who paid the ultimate price. so my thoughts always turn on remembrance sunday to them, who . 403. i think them, to those who. 403. i think it was the end soldiers that lost their lives in helmand. we saw them all. and i thought generally , always in that generally, always in that direction . direction. >> and you had an extraordinary role to play, didn't you, liz, because you were in the medical emergency team and you emergency response team and you had ten deployments to afghan than you had to iraq . there was than you had to iraq. there was one point in 2008 where you were based at camp bastion and you made 14 been one for sorties out to bring an injured service

personnel back. it was highly traumatic for you, liz yeah, and that's in the early days in op herrick actually the it was fairly quiet because we didn't have that many british boots on the ground. >> but as the years went on, we injected more and more british troops into helmand valley. and that meant that there was obviously more more obviously that the more and more fanatic. the busiest fanatic. so that was the busiest year. fanatic. so that was the busiest year . and the busiest time was year. and the busiest time was that the 14 shouts one day. that the 14 shouts in one day. and my darkest day and we picked up five guys who had all been killed in one go from the rifles. and i think, you know, we started to normalise we we started to normalise what we were it certainly were saying and it certainly took its form in the end. you know, was like scenes from know, it was like scenes from mash at one point. for many mash at one point. and for many of people who were out in of the people who were out in camp bastion, would bring any camp bastion, we would bring any of injured fallen of those injured and fallen soldiers at oh, i soldiers to the ulez at oh, i think we've just lost liz. >> we will try and get her connection back. now. she's still back. liz, can you hear me? >> yeah, yeah, i can still hear you. camilla yeah. we bring the we bring the soldiers into the

nightingale helicopter right there . and of the other people there. and of the other people walking around, camp bastion would know when the aircraft were coming in because we'd go to that specific landing site. and think it always used to and i think it always used to hit every soldier in camp bastion quite hard when they saw them yeah i can imagine. >> i mean, i suppose at the time you're you're trying to be completely focussed on the task in hand. you're doing what you need to do. you're possibly even behaving in a quite robotic manner order to just get manner in order to just get through from to day. but liz through from day to day. but liz , as wrote in your book, , as you wrote in your book, chinook chick, which was published in 2022, you did find that all of this caught up with you. tell us about how you suffered with ptsd and you did attempt to take your own life dunng attempt to take your own life during the pandemic. >> liz yeah. and that's it. when we were doing the job, we had a job to do and we couldn't think about who was inside the body bag. they were just the most precious piece of freight that we had to back to camp we had to get back to camp bastion. and many years bastion. and then many years

later, the later, whenever i guess the world got quiet, that's when my thoughts started to get loud and one whenever i'd one night, whenever i'd developed during developed insomnia during lockdown, myself looking lockdown, i find myself looking up lot those soldiers who up a lot of those soldiers who had ultimate price on had paid the ultimate price on the my aircraft and the back of my aircraft and looking up with my logbook looking them up with my logbook and google to humanise and through google to humanise them find if they were them and find out if they were married, were they fathers? were they sons? had got they sons? one chap had got engaged before he deployed. i can never actually made it home and knew all the warning signs and i knew all the warning signs were there that i wasn't in a good way, but i didn't reach out for help. i think that's the case with a lot of veterans is that we feel like we need to do it on our own and we don't want to people because we feel to burden people because we feel like able to solve like we should be able to solve our own problems. so i never reached help. and then reached out for help. and then in august in 2020, i in the august in 2020, i actually took a huge overdose and my life just to and tried to end my life just to get rid of the noise that was just bouncing around in my brain. >> i mean, that must have been absolutely awful. you subsequently out that you subsequently found out that you had. obviously you were had. i mean, obviously you were in time, but thank in a haze at the time, but thank goodness you'd the

goodness you'd called the emergency services. and i believe samaritans they believe the samaritans and they came you. but to reach came and saved you. but to reach rock and to where you rock bottom and get to where you are liz, how have you done are now. liz, how have you done that? because you've an that? because you've had an extraordinary time extraordinary difficult time since the armed forces . since you left the armed forces. have supported enough ? have you been supported enough? do you think the veterans do have support? have enough support? >> and it was very >> liz yeah, and it was very lucky.i >> liz yeah, and it was very lucky. i don't remember making any calls. actually i any phone calls. and actually i think that there's think that proves that there's a will inside us to want to will inside us all to want to survive matter where you are survive no matter where you are in terms depression or ptsd. in terms of depression or ptsd. there something there was something subconsciously that phone subconsciously made, that phone call my life and call that saved my life and yeah, been a battle since i yeah, it's been a battle since i left hospital. i remember thinking, it can't get any lower than this the day try to end than this the day you try to end your life. and actually was your life. and actually i was completely wrong i was about your life. and actually i was co starttely wrong i was about your life. and actually i was co start the wrong i was about your life. and actually i was co start the hardest i was about your life. and actually i was co start the hardest battleas about your life. and actually i was co start the hardest battle ofabout to start the hardest battle of my life by putting it my entire life by putting it back there's back together. and there's no two about i've learnt two ways about it. i've learnt more myself in the last more about myself in the last three years, putting life back together than i did in the 17 years in military. because, years in the military. because, you i've learnt more about you know, i've learnt more about who i am as person the who i am as a person without the uniform. are uniform. and there are there are so many great forces charities out there that help me do that. certainly heroes and

certainly help for heroes and combat been combat stress. they've been instrumental and it's a instrumental in that. and it's a shame fall to the shame that doors fall to the charities, but i feel quite privileged respect privileged in that respect because know the civilian because i know that the civilian system so quick. system isn't quite so quick. >> think that there is >> do you think that there is enough support, particularly for younger i younger veterans? and i appreciate remembrance appreciate on remembrance sunday, about sunday, we usually think about older and those older veterans and those involved first world war older veterans and those invo indeed first world war older veterans and those invo indeed second yrld war older veterans and those invo indeed second yrld wewar. and indeed the second world war. but , people but do younger veterans, people who the armed forces who have left the armed forces in more recent times, do you think supported enough think they're supported enough by liz that's a by the state? liz that's a really good question . really good question. >> and actually, you know, i find it harder and harder every yean find it harder and harder every year. actually i've seen year. and actually i've seen someone, a good friend of mine posted that today on his social media said, does media that he said, why does remembrance harder remembrance sunday get harder every when should with every year when it should with the of time, get easier? the passing of time, get easier? and a younger and i think there's a younger generation from iraq and op herrick, definitely think herrick, who definitely think it's still very raw for them . it's still very raw for them. and are certainly, you and there are certainly, you know, what veteran know, repackaging what a veteran looks because i was looks like because i was a veteran at the age of 37. and i think, you know, just don't meet the typical what a veteran looks like at the side of the cenotaph. and i think there

needs to be a bit more support in terms of just, you know, helping people bond as helping those people bond as well. look at what well. and equally look at what happened yesterday, noise in happened yesterday, the noise in london drowning london yesterday was drowning out and that was out the silence. and that was shameful, that yesterday we shameful, that yesterday all we did day looking at did was spend all day looking at what going on instead of what was going on instead of actually embracing actually like embracing the stories of veterans and celebrating of those those celebrating a lot of those those positive come out positive stories that come out from military as well. from the military as well. >> thank very much for >> well, thank you very much for sharing difficult, but sharing your very difficult, but in end, very positive story. in the end, very positive story. liz thank because i know liz thank you. because i know it's very important for it's a very important time for you to remember the you today to remember the colleagues lost. so you today to remember the collea you; lost. so you today to remember the collea you very lost. so you today to remember the collea you very much lost. so you today to remember the collea you very much indeed,io you today to remember the collea you very much indeed, liz thank you very much indeed, liz mcconaughey. and as i say, her book, chinook chic, is really, book, chinook chic, is a really, really quite astonishing and extraordinary read. let me bring nicholas owen, the former bbc anditn nicholas owen, the former bbc and itn presenter, back into the conversation with michael conversation, along with michael portillo, defence portillo, the former defence secretary. michael, you secretary. now, michael, you spoke earlier about what is happening right let's just happening right now. let's just take through take the audience through the time table. so right now we have members family members of the royal family arriving at the foreign office. they're going to be joined by politicians, politicians , as politicians, key politicians, as you imagine. the prime you would imagine. the prime minister the leader of the

opposition , the leader, as you opposition, the leader, as you say, michael , of all of the main say, michael, of all of the main political parties in westminster that have secured six or more seats , the procession is going seats, the procession is going to begin at 1052. that will leave the front door of the foreign office building to take up around the cenotaph up positions around the cenotaph that's by the cross bearer. that's led by the cross bearer. we're just looking at these live pictures now and we can see rishi sunak wife there. she's on the balcony overlooking the events , joined by i believe i'm events, joined by i believe i'm squinting to see, but i think that might be the duke and duchess of gloucester there waiting , waiting for the king, waiting, waiting for the king, of course, who's going to be leading these commemorations. michael, it is a different penod michael, it is a different period now . we're in the period now. we're in the carolean era. we are associate these events so closely with her late majesty elizabeth ii. and having said that, the king with his own military history with two sons, one who served operationally in afghanistan , he operationally in afghanistan, he is carrying on the mantle . and is carrying on the mantle. and we know that this event today,

we know that this event today, we actually saw him looking quite emotional last night at the festival of remembrance at the festival of remembrance at the royal albert hall, because they unveiled bronze statues of both of his parents. this is of huge significance to the king, isn't it, michael? >> whatever questions people isn't it, michael? >> wihaveer questions people isn't it, michael? >> wihave aboutitions people isn't it, michael? >> wihave about the s people isn't it, michael? >> wihave about the succession might have about the succession of charles following elizabeth , of charles following elizabeth, no. one, i think questions that the military element is absolutely solid. the royal family in the in the person of the king his majesty the king and his sons, and indeed the king's brothers and indeed the king's brothers and indeed the king's sister . they have all king's sister. they have all absolute attached themselves to the military. they are devoted to the military . so there is no to the military. so there is no question mark there whatsoever. there's absolute continuity in this respect. and that the armed forces will feel absolutely inspired to see his majesty the king laying his wreath today. and a wreath being laid on behalf of her majesty the queen as well . as well. >> and interestingly , nick, the >> and interestingly, nick, the queen is going to be here. she's

going to get an equerry. a man called oliver plunkett to lay her wreath for her. we have seen that in the past. sometimes older members of the royal family don't necessarily lay their own wreaths because the their own wreaths because at the end day, the queen 76. end of the day, the queen is 76. also, duke of kent. now, he also, the duke of kent. now, he typically, again , a military man typically, again, a military man would laid own wreath. would have laid his own wreath. he's leaving that to an equerry because he's one of the because he's now one of the oldest the royal oldest members of the royal family. what's interesting, oldest members of the royal f.think, what's interesting, oldest members of the royal f.think, is what's interesting, oldest members of the royal f.think, is this at's interesting, oldest members of the royal f.think, is this passingresting, oldest members of the royal f.think, is this passing down |, i think, is this passing down the we're not going the generations, we're not going to prince and prince, to see the prince and prince, princess wales's children to see the prince and prince, princright wales's children to see the prince and prince, princright walbut children to see the prince and prince, princright walbut atildren to see the prince and prince, princ right walbut at them to see the prince and prince, princ right walbut at the same here right now. but at the same time, it's important that those younger members the royal younger members of the royal family carry these traditions fonnard, ? fonnard, isn't it? >> is. and just talking about >> it is. and just talking about birthdays , of course, king birthdays, of course, the king himself be 75 on tuesday . himself will be 75 on tuesday. yes. our oldest monarch and all of that . yes. interesting. i of that. yes. interesting. i mean , the queen in her later mean, the queen in her later years, often wasn't able didn't feel able to actually lay the wreath herself . but as michael wreath herself. but as michael was saying, this very, very strong connection runs right the way through the cenotaph itself . way through the cenotaph itself. very, very interesting. and the word comes from the greek means

empty tomb . and of course, it is empty tomb. and of course, it is to the you know, the soldier whose remains could not be identified , a reminder that identified, a reminder that particularly the first world war, that the number of people killed was absolutely colossal and so ever since 1920, when the cenotaph was first brought into service , or if you'd like to put service, or if you'd like to put it that way. king george the fifth was there. monarchs have always paid their respects , and always paid their respects, and it was then for the soldiers from the united kingdom and the british empire, as it was then. thenin british empire, as it was then. then in just after the war, second world war 1946, it was rededicated and eventually , of rededicated and eventually, of course, became for the for what we now call the commonwealth, so that that stone there represents so many millions. i mean, i think it tends to get forgotten just what a proportion of this country's young men , almost country's young men, almost exclusively young men , and of exclusively young men, and of course quite a few women as well, perished in the in those

those terrible wars that we have seen and subsequent wars to we've been fighting wars . let's we've been fighting wars. let's let's face it. yes almost ever since . i let's face it. yes almost ever since. i don't think we're involved in anything just at the moment. and let's pray that we are not involved in although in the future it's taking on more significance. >> i think michael, significance. >> i think michael , because of >> i think michael, because of what's going on in ukraine and because of what is now going on in the middle east. >> but yes, i mean, this remembrance weekend, i think, is unlike that we've unlike any that we've experienced for some years because of those two wars and also of the events in also because of the events in britain the last week. britain over the last week. >> and i liz mcconnachie, didn't make this point a moment ago, but i think in a way it was implicit. you know, we're quite happy as a nation to remember the first and second world war, but we're kind of keen to but we're kind of less keen to talk iraq and afghanistan talk about iraq and afghanistan and yet, you know, our service people made the sacrifices in just the same way as it was demanded of them. yes. in iraq and afghanistan. and it is terribly important to remember them. and not only to remember

them, but also those who bear them, but also those who bear the scars like miss pogonoski. i thought her testimony of the work that she was doing, bringing back the bodies of the fallen and what she had suffered since was really moving. and she's she's a relatively young woman and she's a veteran. and it is obviously affected her life in the most the most terrible way, the most extraordinary way. >> you're hearing the sounds at the cenotaph there. we're watching images of the cenotaph . watching images of the cenotaph. we're about three minutes out from the procession leaving the front of the foreign office front door of the foreign office building that's going to be led by the cross bearer . we are by the cross bearer. we are going to be seeing, of course, the prime minister, the leader of the opposition , the snp , of the opposition, the snp, westminster group leader stephen flynn , the leader the liberal flynn, the leader of the liberal democrats. also going democrats. we're also going to be dup jeffrey be seeing dup leader jeffrey donaldson. going to be donaldson. we're going to be seeing, of course, as well the former prime minister. so john major's going to be joined by tony blair. gordon brown, david cameron, theresa may, boris johnson and albeit briefly, liz

truss and others . i mean, it's truss and others. i mean, it's an interesting sort of image of, i think , public life this i think, public life this nicholas, because we're obviously seeing people in official positions. we talk about members of the royal family and indeed politicians being public servants, but also seeing once again this military spectacle of people gathering to remember. and these are people who are giving their lives and their times to king and country. >> absolutely. i mean, look at all those all the military people, all those soldiers there, as michael was saying , there, as michael was saying, there, as michael was saying, the wars that have been fought since , who knows we might since, who knows what we might be upon them in be calling upon them to do in the future . and so you're quite the future. and so you're quite right. the other thing you don't very often get is the institution of monarchy and the institution of monarchy and the institution of monarchy and the institution of politicians that are coming together in this way, something that we're all agreed upon. >> i'm just going to just give some description of what's happening just there at the entrance to the foreign office. those younger people there who

are lining and basically producing of honour producing a guard of honour there for the vips that are just about to come the kings about to come out are the kings scouts. they perform a traditional role. my understanding is the scouts in general have a huge presence here today. and those who are the kings scouts are the ones who have done the most service in the scouts and they get a special award because they're so dedicated to cause . so dedicated to the cause. so that's they're there . now. that's why they're there. now. it's we're about 30s off. we believe , from the procession believe, from the procession leaving for the door as we can see there, people just gathering, waiting a bit of nerves in the background, i'd imagine, michael, as people just get in line and make sure they're in the right place, the music, of course, provides some of cues. of the cues. >> think we're hearing >> i think we're hearing elgar's, nimrod yes, the music is becoming more and more sombre as approach the moment when as we approach the moment when the two minute silence will begin. and so everyone inside the building is, as it were, called, to order by the strains of the music that they're heanng of the music that they're hearing playing from whitehall .

hearing playing from whitehall. >> and just to recap as well, the service today, the service of remembrance is going to be conducted by the dean of the chapels royal. that's bishop sarah mullally. she's was appointed bishop of london in 2018. she became a privy councillor and took her seat in the house of lords in 2018. she's got a really interesting history. dame sarah and here we see the cross bearer leading the procession . now we can see the procession. now we can see the king's choristers there who are from the city of london school. these are the same choristers that sang at the coronation and we see the clergy there leading the procession out of the door of the foreign office . of the foreign office. >> after the two minute silence. they will, of course, be a brief service of remembrance led by the bishop of . london the bishop of. london >> if you're just tuning in, this is the gb news remembrance sunday special. we are seeing live images now from the foreign office door now as this solemn

procession begins to enter the area at the cenotaph , we're area at the cenotaph, we're about to see members of the royal family and indeed, key politicians and party leaders assemble for this ceremony . i assemble for this ceremony. i was just saying dame sarah has this extraordinary background because she used to be the chief nurse of the nhs. so she went from being ordained from nursing to being ordained and she will be carrying out today's service. we're now listening to purcell's . listening to purcell's. >> as i was laid , i think one of >> as i was laid, i think one of the most sad pieces of music that's conceivable . at the end that's conceivable. at the end of his, dido and aeneas . of his, dido and aeneas. >> thankfully, it looks as though rain has held off. earlier on we saw umbrellas . you earlier on we saw umbrellas. you don't see any there. now >> yes. so we've just seen the lord bishop of london, as i say, and the chapel royal choir, the general officer commanding london district, and his staff leaving the foreign office. they're going to take their places in the north—east of the cenotaph and then momentarily ,

cenotaph and then momentarily, we just in seconds, we're going to see the procession led by the prime minister leaving the foreign office onto whitehall for the refrain of the music is remember me, which is, of course , what the day is about. and here, of course, we see rishi sunak. the prime minister accompanied by keir starmer, the labour leader . this isn't a day labour leader. this isn't a day for party politics. yes, this is a day for politicians to come together. ed davey the leader of the liberal democrats behind him with stephen flynn, who's the scottish national party. westminster group leader . a very westminster group leader. a very smart, if i may say so. >> they've they've learnt their positions and they've come to order in an almost military

fashion. >> we can also see there jeffrey donaldson, the leader of the dup, he's joined next to him. there is the speaker of the house of commons, sir lindsay hoyle. we can also see lord mcfall, who is the lord speaker to next him is james cleverly, the secretary and next the foreign secretary and next to james cleverly is a woman who has courted some controversy. this suella this week, home secretary suella braverman . in the second row braverman. in the second row there, we can see our former prime minister as boris prime minister there as boris johnson, as ever . johnson, as distinctive as ever. he's joined by sir john johnson, as distinctive as ever. he's joined by sirjohn major johnson, as distinctive as ever. he's joined by sir john major. he's joined by sirjohn major. sir tony blair is also there . sir tony blair is also there. and the right honourable gordon brown . he is alongside david brown. he is alongside david cameron . we just saw theresa cameron. we just saw theresa may. she's on the second row next to boris johnson , then liz next to boris johnson, then liz truss also there. despite her brief moment in office. and then behind them, we're going to be seeing key members of the cabinet. we're going to be seeing the secretary of state for defence grant shapps and others .

prime raise come.

less than a minute. now to the two minute silence as the king and fellow members of the royal family arrive at the cenotaph .