mid should there have been? should it be illegal to climb all over these memorials and disrespect them in this way? you tell me. and ulez les low emission zones, clean air zones, whatever you want to call them. quite frankly, they are popping up absolutely everywhere . let's up absolutely everywhere. let's face it, we know by now that's because they've become a cash cow milking us motorists to help prop up failing councils who don't seem able to manage the basics of a balance sheet . basics of a balance sheet. anyway, good news. some common sense at last, because over in stoke on trent, the council have apparently ruled them out. good should more follow suit or not? and did you see this week the youngest member of the house of lords made her maiden speech. she has been given a life peerage. now, i don't mean to be

disrespectful, but i think this is pretty disgraceful . and if is pretty disgraceful. and if you ask me, it's time to introduce both age criteria and term limits in the house of lords. am i wrong . well, we've lords. am i wrong. well, we've been debating all of that and more. but before we get stuck in, let's cross live for tonight's latest news headlines . tonight's latest news headlines. >> thanks , michelle. good >> thanks, michelle. good evening. our top stories tonight, the chance lawyer says the government can't guarantee rwanda deportation flights will begin next year. that's despite the prime minister saying he was aiming for the spring. downing street says emergency legislation will be produced in the coming weeks. that's after the coming weeks. that's after the supreme court ruled that it was unlawful. jeremy hunt says the government is doing all it can to the boats , but we can to stop the boats, but we are hopeful that because of the solutions that the prime minister announced yesterday, we

will be able to get flights off to rwanda next year. >> we can't guarantee that. we have to pass legislation, emergency legislation in the house of commons. we have to sign a new international treaty with rwanda . but our commitment with rwanda. but our commitment to the british people is that although the supreme court ruling was a setback , look, we ruling was a setback, look, we will not allow anything to get in the way of delivering the prime minister's pledge to secure our borders by stopping the boats. >> lord cameron has made a surprise visit to ukraine on day two of his first overseas trip as foreign secretary, he travelled to the black sea port of odesa. whilst there, he announced more support, including providing essential winter supplies for people evacuated from frontline areas . evacuated from frontline areas. earlier video was released of lord cameron's meeting with president zelenskyy, where they discussed kiev's military needs. i am delighted that my first visit as foreign secretary is here in ukraine and my message

is very clear that we will continue to give you the moral, the economic , the political and the economic, the political and the economic, the political and the diplomatic support and of course, the military support in your fight against this unjustified and unjustifiable russian aggression for five serving and three former met police officers are being investigated following failings investigated following failings in the case of a serial killer, stephen port, murdered four men in east london between june of 2014 and september of 2015. the police watchdog says they're being investigated for gross misconduct . a lawyer for the misconduct. a lawyer for the victims families is urging investigators to be full and fearless . downing street has fearless. downing street has confirmed that civil servants will now need to spend more time in the office as they're required to come in to work for a bare minimum of three days a week. meanwhile more senior managers will have to be in the office for longer. gb news is

political editor christopher hope says it's shows it's reduced for the post—covid remote working culture victory here. >> in a sense, forjacob rees—mogg, the former business secretary who pressed very hard against this working from home culture. a hangover really since the covid pandemic. so going forward, the government is going to make very clear that civil servants place is not at home, but mainly at work. >> up to 10 million appointments could be freed under new government plans. the new health secretary says that pharmacies will be given more powers to help people directly as part of an nhs proposal to cut waiting lists from next month. millions of women in england will be able to access contraception to access free contraception without to see a gp. without having to see a gp. victoria atkins says it will ease the pressure on doctors surgeries through pharmacy first, not only are we expanding the existing services that are available to members of our community, both in terms of blood pressure checks and contraception services , but

contraception services, but we're also going to be rolling out powers new powers for pharmacists to help people with seven of the most common and bafic seven of the most common and basic conditions. >> so really freeing up, up to 10 million gp appointments. >> meanwhile, the scottish health secretary has apologised for incurring an £11,000 data bill whilst using an ipad abroad. michael matheson ran up huge roaming charges while on houdayin huge roaming charges while on holiday in morocco last year. the falkirk west msp told parliament his son's used his ipad to watch football and he admitted that mistakes were made i >>i -- >> i want to apologise to the chamber for the cost of the roaming charges as i set out in my public statement on friday. i accept that the charges have come about as a result of not updating the sim card in my ipad two. the new contract provider . two. the new contract provider. i also recognise that i should have informed parliament it of my holiday plans in advance of

travelling and that i would be taking two devices. is that was my responsibility and i accept it in full. the prince of wales has visited a youth project in manchester. >> prince william has given the manchester peace together alliance £50,000 through the royal foundation with the city's mayor, andy burnham, doing the same. the funds will be used to create an employment skills and training programme for young people at risk of violence . this people at risk of violence. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now let's get back to . michelle get back to. michelle >> thanks for that rare that story about that £11,000 roaming bill. >> very fascinating listening to the explanation, the headlines there, wasn't it? what was the end outcome, though? i hope that fella is paying back every

single penny of that. i'm sure that he will be, isn't he? you tell me . anyway, hello. good tell me. anyway, hello. good evening to you. i am michelle dewberry, of course, till seven. and alongside me tonight, i've got daniel moylan , a got daniel moylan, a conservative life peer in the house of lords, and a new face, everybody. we like those, don't we, dr. richard johnson, a senior lecturer at queen mary university of london. good evening . especially to you. evening. especially to you. definitely. also, of course to you, but to a new face. would you, but to a new face. would you like that on this programme? you're very welcome. tonight but you know the drill as well, don't you? on dewbs& co. it's not just about us three. it's very much about you guys at home. on your mind home. what is on your mind tonight? can in touch tonight? you can get in touch with all the usual ways. with me. all the usual ways. vaiews@gbnews.com email. with me. all the usual ways. gb you s@gbnews.com email. with me. all the usual ways. gb you can bnews.com email. with me. all the usual ways. gb you can tweet.com email. with me. all the usual ways. gbyou can tweet me1 email. with me. all the usual ways. gbyou can tweet me at email. with me. all the usual ways. gbyou can tweet me at gb email. with me. all the usual ways. gbyou can tweet me at gb news. l. or you can tweet me at gb news. by the way, i do make an effort to try and read all of your emails. obviously i can't get round to them all whilst we're live on air, but i do try my best to read them all. so on that note, i do want to wish dave a very happy you dave a very happy birthday. you got in touch yesterday and said

your birthday is today. you very kindly well to kindly invited me as well to your party. why your birthday party. ross on why i you said on saturday i think you said on saturday night i can't attend but it night i can't attend it, but it was kind offer and i'm was a very kind offer and i'm very pleased with your dedication, watching on your birthday. it? birthday. that's good, isn't it? if was your birthday , i if it was your birthday, i would. >> i would be watching tubes. yeah. good. that's all i look forward to you watch is forward to. to you watch is sitting there watching tubes. even not my even when you're not my birthdays so birthdays come around so frequently michelle, frequently nowadays. michelle, do you that do you find that you get a little they happen little bit older? they happen all so there isn't all the time, so there isn't a lot of exciting anymore, but there is sort of tubes to keep you going. well, i find the older get, i actually lose older i get, i actually lose track own age. track of my own age. >> but anyway, i digress. shall i back onto with the i get back onto track with the top of course of the day? top story? of course of the day? you noticed the you might have noticed the goings parliament last goings on in parliament last night. sir keir starmer. he suffered biggest rebellion night. sir keir starmer. he suffereleadershipest rebellion night. sir keir starmer. he suffereleadershipest rnighton night. sir keir starmer. he suffereleadershipest rnight as of his leadership last night as ten labour front benches, eight of roles, of of them very key roles, of course defined him. of revert for immediate ceasefire in for an immediate ceasefire in gaza.56 for an immediate ceasefire in gaza. 56 labour mps, of course voted in favour of that. pretty

much a quarter of the mps that he has now. you've written a variety of books actually, but one in particular as well about labour being in opposition and all the rest of it, never mind being in opposition, but actually going forward potentially to being in government perhaps by a slim majority, which is what a lot of people are predicting . what do people are predicting. what do you think, if anything, the result last night shows? do you think that keir starmer has got a on his mps? do you a good handle on his mps? do you think could potentially see think we could potentially see rebellion going forward? >> shows that a lot >> i think it shows that a lot of labour have no experience of labour mps have no experience of labour mps have no experience of government. they're not used of labour mps have no experience of being1ment. they're not used of labour mps have no experience of being1ment. uncomfortable ad to being put in uncomfortable positions as taking tough decisions that may be unpopular with the public, but an agreed party line and, and i think keir starmer, i've had my criticisms of, of keir starmer , but i think of, of keir starmer, but i think he's shown leadership actually on this issue and i think he was absolutely right to, to, to, to, to say if you can't back our position on this, then you're out of the out of the front bench. >> and was you surprised at by

the number so the 56 number and then the eight of the top roles at that number surprised you? did you expect to more or less? >> well, actually, i mean, of the eight, i mean, there weren't the eight, i mean, there weren't the sort of the really heavy weight in the shadow cabinet leaving. i mean , jess phillips leaving. i mean, jess phillips was probably the highest, the most prominent, and she wasn't even a senior shadow cabinet figure. so actually, it if you know someone like david lammy or wes streeting or someone like that had had resigned, i think that had had resigned, i think that could have been much more destabilising for starmer. what what we're seeing really is a lot of labour mps don't like getting on a high volume of emails and tweets and everything else. criticise sizing them in such strange strong terms. we've, you know, and the reality is they've got to toughen up if is they've got to toughen up if is going to go into government, they've got to be prepared to face a whole raft of different

issues where they won't have the comfort of opposition in to just oppose. they will actually have to take responsibility for the decisions they're making. >> well, yeah, in public life, i mean, you all know yourself. pubuc mean, you all know yourself. public life is not an easy place to people will not be to be because people will not be backwards forwards and backwards in coming forwards and telling what they expect of telling you what they expect of you, what they want you to do and all the rest of it. and is it line to it therefore a fine line to tread between between, you know , tread between between, you know, being a delegate or a representative toeing the party line or or backing and representing the people in your constituency ? see. constituency? see. >> well, here's a fine line to tread. i just think with starmer, you know, he had a very good conference in only a month ago since he had a very, very good conference in liverpool and i him for that on i gave him credit for that on the at the time on this the time at the time on this show. and really show. and it's really interesting to how so interesting to see how so quickly the fragility of the quickly see the fragility of the labour coalition has been exposed by this issue that's come out of nowhere . nobody come out of nowhere. nobody could have expected this hamas attack. it's really attack. oh, no. and it's really blown the labor party in a

blown up. the labor party in a way that shows that a lot of that stuff at liverpool really was now the really was was show. now the really interesting is , does it interesting question is, does it finish starmer now ? clearly not. finish starmer now? clearly not. i mean, he's not he's not finished now. he's still the leader and he will be the leader. but the really interesting question for government, he government, i think, is how he treats the people who have left, because talk about, you because there's talk about, you know, ways letting know, finding ways of letting them shadow them back into the shadow cabinet for the election. there had be absolutely fatal to a labour government . there has to labour government. there has to be a cost to rebelling against the whip and it has to be visible and what it means is and previous prime ministers have understood this if you stay out, you're out and you stay out. and that's the only way of keeping the others in because boris made this mistake. if there's no cost to rebelling against the whip , to rebelling against the whip, it'll happen all the time . it'll happen all the time. >> i'm just going to bring up on screen in case you're not familiar with some of the people who we are talking about . just who we are talking about. just to show you some of those people who did rebel, i've got to say,

i don't mean to be rude , but not i don't mean to be rude, but not massive names really . you'll be massive names really. you'll be familiar perhaps with naz shah. of course , jess. jess phillips . of course, jess. jess phillips. do you know some of the others? everybody at home. paula barker, rachel hopkins , assaf elkin rachel hopkins, assaf elkin khan. sorry. sarah owen . andy khan. sorry. sarah owen. andy slaughter as well. one of the things i find interesting is out of the ten people that resign and four of them, i think it was, had resigned previously over the was it spycops situation ? and to your point situation? and to your point about , you know, if you're out about, you know, if you're out whether that's by choice or by being shoved , should you be able being shoved, should you be able to then literally , i don't know, to then literally, i don't know, give or take a few months or whatever, be straight back in again ? again? >> well, rebels want the political science literature shows that once someone rebels once, then they will rebel again. they becomes a habit forming . and so if you're an forming. and so if you're an effective leader, you do want to try and nip that in the bud. and

one way to do that is to demonstrate that there are real penalties for doing that. one of the problems i think keir starmer at the moment starmer might have at the moment at is that the talent at least, is that the talent pool on the plp is relatively shallow and so he has, yes, removed some people from the front bench and then they've had to come back. but part of that is because of a capacity issue. now if after the next election there are many more labour mps and perhaps there will be some newly mps , who are you newly elected mps, who are you know, of interesting backgrounds and talent and skill, then he has to spend some time cultivating them, yes, but he might be able to boost his ranks . but at the moment he if you talk to people who are close to the plp, they sort of say particularly the 2015, 17, 19 intakes, there are exceptions to this. of course , there are a lot this. of course, there are a lot of mps who aren't particularly impressive, and that limits the kinds of people that he can have on his frontbench team .

on his frontbench team. >> yeah, you know, i find this quite interesting as well. so say like there's been a lot of conversation. there was a resignation letter that i read a few days ago actually stopped me in my tracks. so it did. so this is a this is a council. so he's called kezia hussein . you might called kezia hussein. you might be familiar with story . called kezia hussein. you might be familiar with story. he be familiar with this story. he represented walsall near birmingham. his first line was that, you know, i'm leaving, i'm resigning from the labour party with immediate effect . the with immediate effect. the labour party has now become a place that is not safe for anyone with muslim beliefs or anyone with muslim beliefs or anyone who supports the oppressed. he then goes on to say things like the muslim community is being played by the labour party and so on and so forth. of course , jess phillips forth. of course, jess phillips she represents a big constituency . she that is constituency. she that is heavily muslim. what do you think to this? well i think this is a pattern that you've seen throughout the history of immigration into the uk. >> if you go back to my parents generation coming here from ireland, the irish people who

came over in that generation all voted solidly for labour because labour was the party that appeared to welcome immigrants and appear be and the tories appear to be hostile what hostile to immigrants. but what happens you go through second happens is you go through second and third generations people and third generations and people that to dissipate and that all starts to dissipate and it away. now, the it splits away. now, with the muslim community, inevitably there'll be a degree of that splitting happening just on splitting away happening just on historical if it awaits historical grounds. if it awaits an issue to revoke it. and gaza is the issue . now, the real is the issue. now, the real interest, i think , is a slightly interest, i think, is a slightly different question is how comfortable are we as a country be with people with such very strong views that we can't share. but for as far as the labour party is concerned, they should have seen this coming because it was going to happen anyway through intergeneration change. >> yeah, you know, i've got to say, want to in say, did you want to come in very briefly? >> well, i just say, i mean, one interesting side note to this is that 100 years ago it was jewish immigrants the immigrants who came into the labour were very, very labour party and were very, very pro labour. and in the 1960s and

19705, pro labour. and in the 1960s and 1970s, over 10% of the parliamentary labour party were jewish mps. in the last election, just five jewish people were elected as labour mps. but that reflects the way in which that community has now changed and that was a much more working class, poorer community when they arrived and now much more integrated into british society and so so you see society and so on. so you see these , see these differences. these, see these differences. >> well, andrew, one of my viewers says hats off to keir for sticking to his guns . many for sticking to his guns. many people i mean, dave just says basically we're just witnessing the death of the main parties. they're both now too divided to continue. he says. do you agree with that ? after break, did with that? after the break, did you absolute state of you see the absolute state of some of the some of the goings on night where you on last night where you had protesters ing over protesters climb ing all over war memorials ? should that be war memorials? should that be illegal in this country ? should illegal in this country? should those have been arrested those people have been arrested straight me .

>> you're listening to gb news radio .

radio. >> hello there. i'm michelle dewberry sl7 o'clock tonight. the conservative life peer in the house of lords, daniel moylan, alongside me, as is doctor richard johnson, a senior lecturer at queen mary, university of london. welcome back, everybody . billy, i like back, everybody. billy, i like this email. you say i'm watching your show from india. you say it's almost midnight here. please can you say hello to my mum? irene? she watches your show every night and she'll be watching you right now in that nice bit of dual family watching on different continents. i like it. do. i have to say it. i really do. i have to say this , jan, i think this email this, jan, i think this email speaks for a lot of people. you say , i wish both the tories and say, i wish both the tories and labour would stop acting like schoolkids squabbling and trying to get one over on each other. i have to say i do kind of agree with you. did you see what happened last night? i'm going to show you some footage in case i don't know. you've been under a rock for the last 24 hours because as peter pan estonian

protesters, they're climbed on war memorials last night. protesters, they're climbed on war memorials last night . look war memorials last night. look at this. if you're listening, not watching, it's just absolutely disgusting, quite frankly . and you can see them frankly. and you can see them there or on these monuments and of course, i mentioned this is london. you've got the police there. they're nice and politely asking them , would you mind asking them, would you mind awfully if you could come down? this is a bit in a second that gets me look at him trampling all over that soldier there. do you see it now? when i watch this, a few things pop into my mind. the first thing is, i think to myself, can you imagine if person wearing a if that person was wearing a football shirt ? he wouldn't be football shirt? he wouldn't be having a nice, polite chat with him. he be off that him. would he be yanked off that statue quicker than i don't know. if know. what can you imagine if that guy had the audacity? brace yourself. warning to yourself. trigger warning to misgender someone , he wouldn't misgender someone, he wouldn't be having a nice, polite chat with him, would he? that's the royal artillery memorial, by the way, at hyde park. in case you're wondering . now, these

you're wondering. now, these people were not arrested. in fact , actually, what i think fact, actually, what i think i might do is switch. now to the mark rowley , of course, head of mark rowley, of course, head of met police. if you listen, because he's faced a lot of criticism, why weren't these fellows arrested and people like them? et cetera. listen to what he had to say. >> the explicit things about it last night. it is it is not illegal to climb on to a statue. i think that might be something that government may may consider . but that's for them to decide. not for me. the officer recognised that whilst it wasn't illegal, it was sort of it was unfortunate, inflammatory in certain ways by the officers at the scene, asked them to get down and they did. so i've got to say, suella has been absolutely lambasted for having the audacity to suggest that there's two tier policing in this country. >> i make are absolutely right. but anyway, is it illegal to climb on these things like that? these memorials like that? should it be illegal? >> if not, well, i'm going to start by saying that for me, that royal artillery monument is

the finest and the most moving war memorial in the whole of london. >> so when you see him trampling on that fallen soldiers leg like that. yeah. what does that make you feel? >> well, i'm thinking the fallen soldier is made of bronze, and if he fell on it on him, it would hurt the soldier. the dead soldier would win in any battle with him. so i'm not that worried about that. it is offensive they do it. but offensive that they do it. but the is, it illegal? the question is, is it illegal? and you're asking the wrong the question is, is it illegal? and yo because 1g the wrong the question is, is it illegal? and yo because i] the wrong the question is, is it illegal? and yo because i nevervrong the question is, is it illegal? and yo because i never claimed person because i never claimed to be a lawyer, but there are plenty of people out there who are willing say that there is are willing to say that there is adequate available adequate legislation available through order and through public order acts and other types of legislation. >> well, mp, neil >> well, a tory mp, neil o'brien, said exactly that. section order act section five public order act 1986 makes its absolutely illegal. >> and that would have and that would have been available and so on.and would have been available and so on. and hard put this on on. and it's hard to put this on a particular policeman who i don't know what rank he had, who was in charge, but probably not very senior, who was actually present in charge. present on the scene in charge. and expect him to know the and to expect him to know the law of detail, law in that level of detail, that's a different matter for

the commissioner of police to come say it's not come out and say that it's not illegal if he has the opportunity better legal opportunity to take better legal advice. what does he advice. so what does he want? he wants an is going to make it wants an act is going to make it illegal. okay. again, but illegal. okay. so again, but will he then enforce it? that's the other they're not the other thing. they're not willing it if the willing to enforce it if the object of policing these demonstrations have demonstrations is to is to have a time by a nice peaceful time by compromising with people, even those who behaving in an a those who are behaving in an a in a way that is illegal or potentially it potentially illegal, then it won't be enforced. we know won't be enforced. but we know that other things it will that with other things it will be richard yeah, i think be richard yeah, well, i think that the law probably does provide them with the ability to act and the thought i have in my mind is the town that i live in in oxfordshire has a war memorial in it. >> and last week someone was acting disorderly and urinating on the war memorial. the police were called out. they tasered the man . the man. >> what was it? just a drunk, random fella. >> i don't know the details beyond what was reported in the local press, but probably something like that . and the something like that. and the police were called out, tasered

the individual to subdue him and took him away. and so i don't think it's necessarily a case that we need a new law. i think it is about how different police forces interpret and operationalise that law. and there does seem to be a difference from police force to police force. >> so do you think, suella, when she was on about two—tier policing, do you think she was right? well not there right? well it's not just there to this was about to cheer because this was about this is about thames valley police versus the met. >> so could be that >> and so it could be that different people who are in charge different police charge of different police forces given different forces have given different instructions to their their officers at and also has been said , we're not necessarily sure said, we're not necessarily sure about the particular individual police officers there at that particular moment. and how they reacted in that moment might be different from how another police officer in the met might have reacted. >> so what is going on, ladies and gents? i shall ask you that second clip that i played, you had all those officers running

to the cenotaph to try and protect the cenotaph in as a massive crowd in london as a massive crowd came towards them. this was in advance the vote in advance of the vote in parliament. you know, i suspect there's bit there's a little bit of something going on here because to became down to a face to me, it became down to a face off between mark rowley and suella, who was going to be right which right after that weekend, which head roll? it was head was going to roll? it was in the interest to make in the police's interest to make out the troublemakers the out the troublemakers were the so—called called far right people and perhaps people, wasn't it? and perhaps in suella interest to make out it was the opposite. but you can't watch those videos and then look back at what happened on day tell me on armistice day and tell me with straight face, seriously, with a straight face, seriously, that two tier that we don't have two tier policing in country . see? policing in this country. see? am wrong? get touch and am i wrong? get in touch and tell me. i'll see you in two. lots way. ulez. is lots coming your way. ulez. is it to scrap it time to scrap

>> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> hi there michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. if you just tuned in, you've missed us having conversations about the labour party and what to do with people that actually think

it's okay to completely disrespect the war memorials in this country can watch back on the app or youtube if indeed you did just miss that. the app or youtube if indeed you did just miss that . but did just miss that. but alongside me, daniel moylan, the conservative life peer in the house of lords, and dr. richard johnson, a senior lecturer at queen mary university of london. i want to talk about life peers, because i've got to be honest, i do not no offence, daniel, think that should such that there should be such a thing and i'll be coming on to that before end of the that before the end of the programme because a year old programme because a 30 year old has given a peerage. what has been given a peerage. what for? life do you think? that is absolutely ridiculous . we'll be absolutely ridiculous. we'll be coming on to that. but before we do, i want to talk to you about ulez or whatever they're called in your area because they're all over the place. these zones, they different names. ulez they have different names. ulez les air zones, whatever les clean air zones, whatever you things are you call them. these things are raking absolute fortune you call them. these things are rak councils. absolute fortune you call them. these things are rak councils. many jte fortune you call them. these things are rak councils. many of fortune you call them. these things are rak councils. many of whiche you call them. these things are rak councils. many of which are for councils. many of which are absolutely failing at their most bafic absolutely failing at their most basic task, which is to manage and balance their books. i feel that motorists are seen as cash cows anyway . i'm pleased because

cows anyway. i'm pleased because a council now stoke on trent. i think it is, have said that they're not going to be rolling one of these out in their area. i think it's great news. i hope that other cities follow suit. do daniel? do you, daniel? >> i think there's >> yeah, i think there's a dishonesty here and tried dishonesty here and i've tried to expose before in the work to expose it before in the work i do in the house of lords. the dishonesty that is dishonesty is that there is a policy that is in place to reduce motor vehicle traffic by 30, especially in cities by 2030. but it's policy that nobody really admits to the government says nothing to do with us. it's all to do with local authorities. we talk to all the local authorities. they all the local authorities. they all agree with the same figure of where come from? of 30. where does it come from? you pin it down. nobody's you can't pin it down. nobody's ever discussed it with the public. ever asked is ever discussed it with the publi

persecute motorists and where possible, from possible, to extract cash from them. wholly dishonest them. it is wholly dishonest that will not that people in power will not have discussion with the have this discussion with the people britain. do you agree people of britain. do you agree with that? >> well, i'm not against having some ulez or however you want to call it in certain circumstances in in central cities where there might be a real issue with pollution. >> but yeah , but hold on. >> but yeah, but hold on. london, for example, it's got the congestion charge for that. so why do you need a second charge? >> right. so so then the issue is that what we have seen is that this policy has has proliferated much further beyond where it might make sense. and then the question is, is this being done? because councils see it as a as a revenue making opportunity. what i would say is that if people don't like these policies, then they need to vote out the councillors that put them in if that's what they care about. we have a problem in this country where people don't vote in local elections. we have turnout a third turnout of at best about a third at local election time. if there is this silent majority against

it ulez then people need to the majority actually need to go out and vote and actually make their make their position known on this. >> i think you make a good point, though, because turnout is very, very poor. but a lot of this stuff gets rolled out without consultation of the electorate, those that did electorate, even those that did vote place. i'm vote in the first place. i'm thinking for example, the thinking of, for example, the expansion london. we talked expansion in london. we talked there glasgow in three there about in glasgow in three months. they raked half £1 months. they raked in half £1 million of these things . million because of these things. so it's of yes , people can so it's kind of yes, people can wait for their next local elections. but in the meantime , elections. but in the meantime, um, should they just put up with being fleeced like this? because last time the councils were so poor that they didn't engage them get them to turn out and them to get them to turn out and vote no? >> think people should >> i think people should organise, should campaign, organise, they should campaign, they local campaigning they should do local campaigning activity . his getting the local activity. his getting the local press, getting the national press. we're talking press. what we're talking about now, of the figures in in now, some of the figures in in in the stories about about glasgow are quite staggering and i think this is all part of local democracy, though. i mean, we hear all these people talk

about the importance of devolution or localism. and so on. but then actually when we see it in action, people kind of withdraw from the process , get withdraw from the process, get involved. and if you don't like it, go to your councillors, tell them and put pressure on them either to get rid of the policy or if they don't get rid of the policy, then you can get rid of them at the next election. >> i've got to confess this won't be news to any of my viewers, but i don't vote at the local elections. i never have been ever, because been all my life ever, because i just they're all great just think they're all great failing of you. >> in fact, i think no, it's not a great failing of me. >> it's a great feeling of people. no it's a great feeling of in local government of people in local government that arouse me, they that they don't arouse me, they don't and don't don't engage me, and they don't convince engage in the pi'ocess. >> process. >> it's not an entertainment show. local government. not show. local government. it's not something to something that's meant to attract you're meant to attract you in. you're meant to be to do. you be telling them what to do. you should there voting. i don't should be there voting. i don't want to go go too far down this road, i i'm correct in road, but i think i'm correct in saying that socrates or somebody had the literal greek word for

someone wouldn't take part had the literal greek word for so politics, wouldn't take part had the literal greek word for so politics, what)uldn't take part had the literal greek word for so politics, what)uldn't he le part had the literal greek word for so politics, what)uldn't he call rt me? >> what would he be calling me? >> what would he be calling me? >> that's exactly what >> i think that's exactly what the origin of the word would be. >> an idiot because >> calling me an idiot because i think idiot are so think local idiot are so ridiculous. want someone who ridiculous. i want someone who refuses in refuses to engage in the political forum. >> i would say socrates, >> well, i would say socrates, you'd there, you'd have been down there, girl, got a thick skin i girl, i've got a thick skin i can cope with being called an idiot. >> right. >> right. >> well, socrates wouldn't have let anyway because you let you in anyway because you were not when you were a girl. not. not when you came but that's another story. >> part of. part of the reason why these schemes can sometimes be put in. and then people local people say didn't like them is people say i didn't like them is because there is this disengagement this one of disengagement and this is one of the think, of the risks. i think, of devolution further localism the risks. i think, of de people�*n further localism the risks. i think, of de people don'trrther localism the risks. i think, of depeople don't pay r localism the risks. i think, of depeople don't pay attention| the risks. i think, of depemuchion't pay attention| the risks. i think, of depemuch t0|'t pay attention| the risks. i think, of de pe much to whatr attention| the risks. i think, of depemuch to what happensn| the risks. i think, of depemuch to what happens in that much to what happens in their local council. and dare i say, we had regional say, if we had regional councils, really councils, people wouldn't really be paying that much attention where action where most of the action actually and where actually happens and where people attention in people do pay attention is in parliament. to be parliament. so we've got to be careful about about careful actually about about taking much responsibility taking too much responsibility out of parliament to areas of the country that, yes, are closer technically to people, but they're not what people pay

attention when they think attention to when they think about how vote and how they about how they vote and how they relate politics and political decisions. >> do you think that there are too many councils this too many councils in this country now that they are so poon country now that they are so poor, the management is so poor that they cannot do the basics of managing their own books? hence we're seeing all of these bankruptcy notices being scheduled the rest of scheduled and all the rest of it. you think that what they it. do you think that what they are sitting there are now sitting there is thinking, know, what a sigh thinking, you know, what a sigh of relief? i don't need of massive relief? i don't need to out. i can just to sort myself out. i can just fleece the motorists and plug my budget. black holes in that way instead. think that's instead. do you think that's what's it? what's driving it? >> well, two things to >> well, i've got two things to say that. and i have say to that. and i have a background in local government. >> all, i know you do. >> first of all, i know you do. that's why i'm asking. >> first of all, i'm going that's why i'm asking. >>stick first of all, i'm going that's why i'm asking. >>stick fiforof all, i'm going that's why i'm asking. >>stick fi for local. i'm going to stick up for local government. local government. most local government. most local government in this country is actually pretty professional. and the officers are really quite they and quite good at what they do. and of course, parish councils of course, it'll parish councils know what's going on. but any of the principal councils in this country largely run by country are largely run by professional effective professional and effective people. we don't have huge corruption. we don't we have a few councils have gone bankrupt,

but very few. they do but very, very few. they do manage books. i don't manage their books. so i don't want knock. want to want to knock. i don't want to knock government because knock local government because there isn't any basis for doing it a class. in general, it as a class. but in general, yes it is. when, when the when the or the finance the treasurer or the finance director of a authority director of a local authority says, you know, we have this says, oh, you know, we have this new power and we could this new power and we could do this and would bring in a load of and it would bring in a load of money, and we've got severe pressure the council tax, pressure on the council tax, it's for councillors it's very hard for councillors to and say we're not to stand up and say we're not going to do that. we're going to refuse source revenue refuse as that source of revenue and once you get it baked into the budget, this is talking about richard's vote voted about richard's point vote voted out later at the next election . out later at the next election. once baked into the budget, once it's baked into the budget, it difficult it becomes very, very difficult for councillors to take it out later. even if they're promising to so. to do so. >> i think that the organisation of local government in this country is mess. think in country is a mess. i think in some parts of the country we have like in oxfordshire, we have like in oxfordshire, we have district councils and county councils and some parts of the country have unitary councils. i would have bigger unitary councils across the country with fewer councillors ,

country with fewer councillors, but those councillors who do remain. i would increase the pay for those councillors to what? well, at the moment if you're a district councillor, you , you district councillor, you, you get maybe £3,000 a year, something like that . i mean it's something like that. i mean it's not a lot of for money if you do do it well it can be very time consuming. and so that means that people who are a very good, you know, have busy jobs, busy lives are not going to, you know, take days out of their week to be a councillor. and so thatis week to be a councillor. and so that is sometimes the problem that is sometimes the problem that we have is either people who retired or people who who are retired or people who who are retired or people who who are retired or people who who are otherwise busily employed can't be a councillor. so i would i would actually increase what councillors get paid, but i'd have fewer councillors. so the, the net cost would be the same . but, but cost would be the same. but, but actually you would hopefully attract better people into local government. >> yeah. every reorganised version of local government that's taken place over the last, since the 1970s has consumed a huge amount of time, a huge amount of money. it's

normally accompanied by new town halls. it's been extremely expensive and it hasn't improved anything the last thing local government needs is a massive reorganisation of boundaries and responsibilities and absolutely no in places where they have two tiers, it's usually because they want it in places where they have one tier, they've usually got some support for it. having fewer councillors paying fewer councillors and paying them more, that's them a bit more, that's a different argument. the two tier obscures accountability and most people parts of the people in two tier parts of the country don't really what country don't really know what what's the county council responsibility versus the city council? quickly find out if they want engage them. they want to engage with them. >> are a lot of issues >> there are a lot of issues where it's not obvious to people that road is the county, but that the road is the county, but the verge is the city. you know, i mean, it just it's not it's not something that unless you're a real local politics nerd, then you're not going to know those things. then you don't know who to call when you need to engage with it. >> you will find out quite quickly because you'll be told, well, well, if you have the means, the time and the

resources that, yes. but resources to do that, yes. but otherwise write an email, otherwise you write an email, you the means, and you have the means, time and resource an email and resource to write an email and the sends it back and the person sends it back and says, i'll, that's how you contact councillor contact their councillor thinking, is the person thinking, oh, this is the person who help this. who can help me with this. >> the city councillor or district and it district councillor. and it turns the county turns out it's the county council bounces and council and it bounces back and forth. don't think that forth. i don't think that improves service for anyone. improves the service for anyone. i just one local i would just have one local councillor elected for each ward in in unitary in the country in unitary councils think would councils and i think that would be simpler for, for, for be much simpler for, for, for voters. and then you know who to blame, who to out blame, you know who to vote out at election when you at the next election when you don't what the council has done. >> well, there you go. let me ask you this at home. do you vote in your elections? vote in your local elections? because of us does or because hardly any of us does or do, shall i say? and can i just end this segment with with a pearl wisdom? socrates , pearl of wisdom? um, socrates, are you ready? everyone? this is are you ready? everyone? this is a nice learning curve. socrates also said the unexamined life is not worth living. and michel, you spend every evening examining life. so socrates would be very impressed by you. he would, says my fellow

presenter bev turner, who's watching. thank you for that little pearl of wisdom . i little pearl of wisdom. i appreciate it . guys, do you vote appreciate it. guys, do you vote in your local election? if not, why not? after the break, is it time to get rid of daniel moylan? no offence, but he is a life peer in the house of lords. do we need them? i don't think we do. see you . in two on we do. see you. in two on patrick christys tonight . patrick christys tonight. >> 9 to 11 pm. i expose more pro—palestine protest madness as kids are now being taken out of school to go on marches . school to go on marches. princess diana's closest confidante, paul burrell, delivers his exclusive verdict on the crown's controversial final season. former sun editor kelvin mackenzie tucks into breaking headlines in the most entertaining paper review anywhere on telly. patrick christys tonight kicks off 9 pm. you have to be there

>> hi there. michelle dewberry till seven. daniel moylan, a conservative life peer in the house of lords, alongside me as is doctor richard johnson, senior lecturer at queen mary, university of london. listen, guys, i want to talk to you about the house of lords, right this week , the youngest life this week, the youngest life peerin this week, the youngest life peer in the house of lords, charlotte owens, made her maiden speech. charlotte owens, made her maiden speech . so let's just have speech. so let's just have a little listen to some of this. >> my lords, i was born in 1993. george michael was still at number one. and the spice girls were about to set in motion a wave of girl power . i were about to set in motion a wave of girl power. i must also thank the former prime minister, bofis thank the former prime minister, boris johnson, who put a great deal of trust in me , and i will deal of trust in me, and i will be forever grateful not only for this, but for his kindness and encouragement . i now look encouragement. i now look nothing against the individuals concerned, but a few things going on in my mind right now. >> what on god's green earth is

a 30 year old doing being awarded a life peerage in the house of lords? and secondly , house of lords? and secondly, why a life peerage is even a thing. i think they're disgraceful. daniel you're one of them. i don't think you should be able to hold such a role without being rude to you or to charlotte or all the rest of them. what gives you guys the entitlement to have this job for life? being able to clock in 300 odd quid as it currently is tax free? why why are there no term limits in this? >> well, i don't see why they should. why you need term limits, but only impose restrictions what members of restrictions on what members of the lords could do. but the house of lords could do. but if to have term limits, if you want to have term limits, you have limits. you could have term limits. that's you could that's an something you could do. you have life, do. the reason you have life, piers, is that we move from a system of having hereditary peers but peers which would pass down. but all those hereditary peers were members the rest of their members for the rest of their lives. right. would be lives. right. and then would be followed their followed by their their successors, heirs. so we successors, their heirs. so we moved having those moved from having those predominantly to having life peers who would serve only for their life. if you want to make

a further change to bring it down to 15 years, say something like that. you could do it. but what you really have to start with is asking yourself the question what is the house of lords do? and who would do it if you have the house of you didn't have the house of lords doing it? it's lords doing it? if it's worthwhile and spend all our worthwhile and we spend all our time, nearly time time, nearly all our time scrutinising legislation, 10,000 amendments the amendments were debated in the last session to government legislation. 3500 of those came from the government alone . so from the government alone. so the uses the house of the government uses the house of lords in order to amend and tidy up legislation that's been through commons through the commons, commons has stopped the stopped doing this since the blair that sent blair brown reforms that sent them all home at tea time on family friendly grounds. so we doing all that work now, do you think you're going to get an elected house to do that work? elected politicians to elected politicians want to do it when they want to be it when they really want to be out in front of the out there in front of the cameras. we don't want to be out there in front the cameras there in front of the cameras because we're looking because we're not looking for re—election. we're doing that work. do it and work. who's going to do it and how is it going to cost? how much is it going to cost? you know, you talk about the attendance allowance with a 30 year wait

year old. yeah, but wait a minute. you had a reddit minute. when you had a reddit repairs, you had 20 year olds. yeah, i remember they're yeah, but i remember they're gone now. no, they're still yeah, but i remember they're gone are i. no, they're still yeah, but i remember they're gone are '. no,903y're still yeah, but i remember they're gone are '. no,9o of'e still yeah, but i remember they're gone are '. no,9o of them. yeah, but i remember they're gone are '. no,9o of them in there are still 90 of them in there are still 90 of them in the of one of them the house of lords. one of them i to his maiden speech, i went to his maiden speech, which he made just after his 21st birthday, because his father young. but father died young. yeah, but he's of lords he's been in the house of lords for years and he's been for 40 years and he's been a great contributor. >> yes. but that stopped now. >> yes. but so that stopped now. so stopped. there so it has stopped. yes. there are residual. so it has stopped. yes. there are residlhave you got against >> what have you got against young people, michelle? we've got nothing. we've got got nothing. we've got we've got a lords now that's a house of lords now that's predominantly up of the predominantly made up of the elderly time when you have elderly at a time when you have real intergenerational tension and there's opportunity and there's no opportunity for the represented the young to be represented in it, fine with it, and you're fine with that. >> i've nothing against >> i've got nothing against young people, i've young people, but i've got everything point everything against you. point out it's not because, out she's 30. it's not because, of course it's a gravy train. it's a gravy train. what business as a 30 business have you got as a 30 year that's barely achieved year old that's barely achieved anything? about anything? you've only just about left university having a job for life. paid my viewers life. paid for by me. my viewers , all of us. taxpayer funds currently at £300 plus a day tax free. but it'd be okay if she was business having that role.

you know, theresa may put another woman into the house of lords was a little bit older. >> 32, and she became a minister quite quickly. one of the most effective and popular ministers in the house of lords. i won't say who i'm talking about, but you know, she would nobody objected whatsoever. but because it's boris and because they wanted make insinuations, wanted to make insinuations, i know doing. no, know you're not doing. no, no personal . they've personal insinuations. they've had a go at charlotte owen, whom inever had a go at charlotte owen, whom i never met before. she came into house of lords. but into the house of lords. but i have, like other people made a point rallying her point of rallying round her a bit she's had so much bit because she's had so much abuse to put up with, and it's because she's 30 and good looking. and really what looking. and that's really what all has been about. not all of this has been about. not your what it's your case, but that's what it's all about. all been about. >> going to say, i don't >> i was going to say, i don't care if someone's good looking or don't think you or not. i don't think she you do. or all the rest of the hundreds of you should be paid for rest of your life. for the rest of your life. >> paid if we don't turn up and lots people you can walk lots of people can. you can walk through barrier, stick your through the barrier, stick your card in get your money and card in and get your money and go home. that's not quite right. lots of do. who do

lots of people do. who do turn up, don't claim allowances. those of london those who live outside of london have hotel have to pay their hotel and accommodation of those accommodation out of those allowances and so forth. we get no , no secretaries, no staff, no secretaries, we don't the violins out. don't get the violins out. >> no, there's no violins. >> no, there's no violins. >> we are running house of >> we are running the house of lords. costs 20% of running the commons . commons. >> richard. and i will say, i mean, had an elected upper mean, if we had an elected upper chamber, be more chamber, it would be much more expensive the taxpayer than expensive to the taxpayer than an unelected chamber because you would them proper would have to give them proper salaries, get far salaries, right? mps get far more than than lords rightly , more than than lords rightly, but but they would have to have staff, they would have to have their own offices, they'd have to have all these expenses that mps get paid for quite again, quite rightly for running an office lords don't get paid office that lords don't get paid for. the house of lords is very unusual, but i think it is a rather special chamber. i mean, this is the chamber where you can have in it former prime ministers, laureates, can have in it former prime ministersleaders laureates, can have in it former prime ministers leaders ,aureates, can have in it former prime ministers leaders , trade es, can have in it former prime ministers leaders , trade union business leaders, trade union leaders, who have run leaders, people who have run local authorities . it's a pool local authorities. it's a pool of experts and people with

relevant experience . yes. now relevant experience. yes. now charlotte owen is on the youngest side of that, but she did work at the heart of government. you know, i probably wouldn't have made this particular appointment at the heart of government. yeah, she was working for boris johnson. and so we have a long tradition, quite a low level. we have we have a we have a tradition of advisors to prime ministers entering the house of lords. >> one particular that's our jacket is that our jack arlene foster in the back there . i foster in the back there. i can't see it. it's quite small. but our jack arlene foster and by the way, i'll be saying exactly same to jack exactly the same thing to jack arlene if she was sitting arlene foster if she was sitting next me well. so this is next to me as well. so this is not about individual people. this is something this for me, there is something very about awarding very wrong about awarding someone a job for life. >> why did you hook it to on charlotte owen but also you could have this debate. >> let me answer this on to a story like that about an individual. >> no, no, no. let me attacked so much. >> so let me explain exactly why i've hooked it to on charlotte.

owen. firstly because this is a news debate program . so the fact news debate program. so the fact that literally just on that she is literally just on her maiden speech, i it her maiden speech, i think it was yesterday was it or at was yesterday or was it or at least in the last 48 hours, that is relevant to is the relevant news hook to this story. i don't know this individual. i don't know the range. individual. i don't know the ran last week we've had we've >> last week we've had we've had a succession days, something a succession of days, something about particular, a 38 year about in particular, a 38 year old individual . old individual. >> well, i don't know this girl ehhen >> well, i don't know this girl either. and it's very noble that you're trying to defend her. i'm sure she's individual. sure she's a lovely individual. but years old. and what but at 30 years old. and what business have you got being paid for the rest of your life on taxpayer dime? i argue absolutely none at all. >> well, you you only get paid if you do the job. it's a gig economy. the house. the house of lords is a gig economy. >> if you don't show up, if you don't show up, you don't get anything. >> but if there's no work for you and if there's no work because they've closed it down, you can't turn up showing up mean showing up means you show up some people might up for work as some people might be. a short time be. show up for a short time dunng be. show up for a short time during day. other are

during the day. other people are sitting there or 7 hours in sitting there 6 or 7 hours in one go. well the way, their one go. well by the way, their speech they can't leave. speech is they can't leave. >> it's not just the young people i've got an issue with, by the there's loads of by the way. there's loads of people. of them in is people. one of them in there is about 98, 100 years old. about 98, nearly 100 years old. it's pretty much very it's also pretty much a very expensive retirement home as well. when you say show up, well. and when you say show up, i'm that of what you i'm sure that some of what you mean is you can clock in and have little sleep couple have a little sleep for a couple of hours the chamber and pop of hours in the chamber and pop off again. off go. and do off again. off you go. and do you finish your shopping or whatever it anyway, look, whatever it is anyway, look, look time. it flies, look at the time. it flies, doesn't when you're having doesn't it, when you're having fun. get off my fun. i'll stop and get off my rant, ben, and says, vote in rant, ben, and says, i vote in every election. if you every single election. if you don't, like don't, michelle and anyone like you, complain if they you, you cannot complain if they don't do a good job, i'd better get out and vote them because i do like to complain on my shoulder. kathy says, enjoyed shoulder. i kathy says, enjoyed the like the show. angela says we like the show. angela says we like the he can come back the new guy. he can come back again. you you've got again. there you go. you've got angela's of approval. we angela's seal of approval. we like that's i've got like that. that's all i've got time for. i like daniel moylan. like that. that's all i've got time foi i like daniel moylan. like that. that's all i've got time foi just;e daniel moylan. like that. that's all i've got time foi just don't iel moylan. like that. that's all i've got time foi just don't like roylan. like that. that's all i've got time foi just don't like his an. really. i just don't like his role. anyway, all. i've role. anyway, that's all. i've got for. richard tice. up got time for. richard tice. up next, nana. >> evening, burkill

>> good evening, alex burkill here your latest gb here again with your latest gb news weather forecast. whilst for tomorrow is going be for many tomorrow is going to be a largely we do have a largely dry day, we do have some rain to get of first some rain to get rid of first this evening. that's in association a front that's this evening. that's in associatiits a front that's this evening. that's in associatiits way a front that's this evening. that's in associatiits way from nt that's this evening. that's in associatiits way from nt thito. pushing its way from west to east. it already brought east. it has already brought some heavy rain across parts of northern ireland earlier today and pushing into western and is now pushing into western parts england parts of scotland, england and across heavy across wales to some heavy outbreaks way outbreaks as it makes its way eastwards. the rain should eastwards. but the rain should break up somewhat the break up somewhat through the night. some parts northeast night. some parts of northeast scotland will stay largely dry with mist, scotland will stay largely dry with fog mist, scotland will stay largely dry with fog and mist, scotland will stay largely dry with fog and some mist, scotland will stay largely dry with fog and some mishere some fog and some frost. here elsewhere, skies behind elsewhere, clear skies behind the allow temperatures elsewhere, clear skies behind the a allow temperatures elsewhere, clear skies behind the a bit allow temperatures elsewhere, clear skies behind the a bit of ow temperatures elsewhere, clear skies behind the a bit of av temperatures elsewhere, clear skies behind the a bit of a dip.nperatures elsewhere, clear skies behind the a bit of a dip. so ratures elsewhere, clear skies behind the a bit of a dip. so atures to take a bit of a dip. so a chilly start on friday morning with some patches of fog, perhaps freezing fog perhaps even some freezing fog in to any fog should in some spots to any fog should largely go through largely clear as we go through the and it should be the morning. and it should be a mostly fine day. plenty of sunshine, too. just a few showers, most likely towards western england, western parts of england, perhaps wales. will perhaps wales. but these will ease go into the ease as we go into the afternoon. notice then some more cloud rain pushing its cloud and some rain pushing its way the southwest later way in from the southwest later on. many on. temperatures for many a little higher than today. little bit higher than today. still little of a chilly still a little bit of a chilly feel towards the north, turning

milder towards the south—west, then weather then wet and windy weather spilling across all parts we spilling across all parts as we go overnight into saturday. so it does look like it's going to be fairly unsettled weekend. be a fairly unsettled weekend. the impacts from the the greatest impacts from the rain will be in the south—west where already saturated where we have already saturated ground . then we go ground. but then as we go through sunday and into monday, it's to be bit more it's going to be a bit more showery. drier spells in showery. so some drier spells in between the rain and temperatures dipping after a mild start weekend mild start to the weekend

and a very good evening. >> yes, it's 7:00. it's time for farage. but it's not just a one hour extravaganza. no, it's a two hour special. there is so much to talk about. i'm going to be identifying as myself for the whole two hours, having got a little bit confused last night. but you'll be pleased to know i shall remain the same gender

throughout the whole two throughout out the whole two hours. first hour, hours. now, in the first hour, we've a look protests we've got a look at the protests last night in parliament square. the impact of that , what's the impact of that, what's really on, patrick really going on, patrick christie, he'll be on a bit later with me. he's been getting himself into even more trouble today. himself into even more trouble today . we've got a look at the today. we've got a look at the labour turmoil , more labour turmoil, more resignations. what's the impact ? resignations. what's the impact? what's the real influence on keir starmer? will he hold or will he bottle it? and of course , we've got the first exclusive pictures of nigel. yes, he is down under i'm a celebrity pictures all of that. so much more. but first, it's the news with ray addison . with ray addison. >> good evening. i'm ray addison in the newsroom . our top in the newsroom. our top stories. the chancellor says the government can't guarantee rwanda deportation flights will begin next year. that's despite the prime minister saying he was aiming for the spring. downing street says emergency legislation will be produced in

the coming weeks after the