vigils and after the tragedy in dubun vigils and after the tragedy in dublin yesterday, where three children and two adults were stabbed in broad daylight, mobs rioted later in the evening, burning and looting the beautiful city of dublin. why let's talk about that. what are those men so angry about .7 let me those men so angry about? let me know your thoughts. weren't you on email? and black friday has thrust itself upon us once again, just like many american imports. but amazon workers around the world have chosen today to strike for better pay and conditions. is black friday and conditions. is black friday a con and is it harmful to workers or is it a good day to get a deal? and do parents trust teachers anymore? the head of ofsted says that the social contract between teachers and

parents has been broken . is she parents has been broken. is she right? and if so , why . so all to right? and if so, why. so all to come in the next hour, get in touch with me. vaiews@gbnews.com is the email address or on twitter at gb news. but first, the very latest news headlines with tatiana sanchez the newsroom . bev turner. >> thank you very much. this is the latest, as you've been hearing, 13 israeli hostages released by hamas are back in israel. that's to according the israeli defence forces . these israeli defence forces. these pictures show the hostages being transferred in red cross cars via the rafah crossing a short time ago. more aid is being allowed into gaza, which is expected to continue over the coming days. there was also a further group of thai hostages released by hamas following separate mediation efforts by eqypt separate mediation efforts by egypt and qatar . those released

egypt and qatar. those released today include 13 israelis, some of whom are dual nationals, ten thai citizens and a filipino national. we can take you live now to the hatzerim airbase, where that group of israeli hostages is due to arrive soon. qatar's foreign ministry says 39 palestinian women and children have also been released from israeli prisons as part of the deal israeli prisons as part of the deal. a temporary pause in fighting came into force this morning, expected to last four days. now margalit moses. daniel aloni . amelia aloni adina moshe , aloni. amelia aloni adina moshe, ohad munda and ruth munda just six of those israeli hostages who've been released today, a full list of israeli israelis who've been freed has been released by the prime minister's office. they include one male and a range in age from 85 to as young as five. the israeli prime minister has said we're committed to the return of all of our hostages , to other news

of our hostages, to other news now. 34 people have been arrested after riots and violent scenes in dublin yesterday. a clean up was under way this morning in the city centre after cars were set alight and shops were looted. a number of police officers were also injured. the violence was sparked after three children and a woman were stabbed close to a school in the city yesterday . a five year old city yesterday. a five year old girl is said to be in a serious condition. taoiseach leo varadkar said the people involved in the unrest brought shame on the country. those involved brought shame on dublin , brought shame on ireland and brought shame on their families and themselves . and themselves. >> these criminals did not do what they did because they love ireland . they do not do what ireland. they do not do what they did because they wanted to protect irish people. they did not do it out of any sense of patriotism. however warped out. they did so because they're filled with hate . they love filled with hate. they love violence. they love chaos , and violence. they love chaos, and they love causing pain to others i >> -- >> oscar pistorius will be freed from prison on parole in january

, almost 11 years after killing his girlfriend , reeva steenkamp, his girlfriend, reeva steenkamp, on valentine's day in 2013. the former paralympic champion, who's now 37, claimed that he fired the gun through a bathroom door after mistaking his partner for an intruder, saying he feared for his safety. he was initially jailed for five years, but an appeal saw him sent back for six years in 2016. less than half of the 15 year minimum term that had been sought by prosecutors . nissan has prosecutors. nissan has announced a £1.2 billion plan to build electric versions of two new cars at its sunderland plant . the japanese automaker's new electric qashqai and duke models will be manufactured at the site . it's also expected to bring wider investment in the industry, including the construction of a new giga factory to make more batteries . factory to make more batteries. rishi sunak is facing a backlash from senior members of his own party after new figures revealed migration is at an all time high

record reports suggest mps are demanding action to reduce the number of people coming legally to the uk. net migration peaked at 745,000 last year, a record high. work and pensions secretary mel stride says measures to reduce the number are already in place. >> we accept that the figures are too high and that's why for example, recently we announced that in the case of 150,000 student visas , we'd be clamping student visas, we'd be clamping down on them , bringing down on them, bringing dependents in line with them. we're putting up the cost of visas , a number of different visas, a number of different measures . and the obr, who are measures. and the obr, who are the independent forecaster , the independent forecaster, actors who look at the kind of impacts of these steps , impacts of these steps, recognise that this will in itself start to bring the level of migration down. but there is more to be done and a familiar face is returning to london's oxford street as music shop hmv reopens its doors. >> the historic retailer returns today after a four year absence

reclaiming its old flagship location in what's hoped to be a boost for the popular shopping strip. gb news reporter ray anderson is there. >> hmv has returned to profit means that new owner doug puttnam has been able to reopen the brand's flagship store four years after it shut down here on oxford street. he's going to be hoping that it can once again become a mainstay of the high street . now over the years, street. now over the years, influential acts such as michael jackson, the spice girls and the beatles, no less, have all performed formed it's also performed formed here. it's also been used as air raid shelter been used as an air raid shelter in world war ii and burnt to the ground and been rebuilt. now it will have to survive the tough economic many economic conditions as many shoppers tighten their belts . shoppers tighten their belts. >> this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio, and on your smart speaken radio, and on your smart speaker. by saying play gb news now back to . bev turner.

now back to. bev turner. >> very good evening . welcome to >> very good evening. welcome to dewbs& co with me bev turner tonight while michelle takes a friday night off joining me until seven my panel conservative life peer in the house of lords, daniel moylan and writer and trade unionist paul embery. make sure that you get in touch with us this evening. vaiews@gbnews.com or on twitter at gb news. gentlemen, we have brand new stools tonight , so there will be stools tonight, so there will be very little squeaking . how very little squeaking. how comfortable is it this evening? >> i can't believe that i've been given the privilege of being the first person to be allowed to sit in is excessively stool . stool. >> @ i might carry over >> they are. i might carry over to the next show as well. yeah, that's gb is that's all right. gb news is going up in the world. >> have brand new stools, >> we have brand new stools, right? little glimpse right? it was a little glimpse of good news today. the first 13 hostages hamas have hostages held by hamas have been released. handed released. they've been handed over the cross as part of over to the red cross as part of a deal for a temporary ceasefire with israel. looking at with israel. we're looking at the from just the pictures here from just a little was a little earlier. there was a pause in fighting between israel little earlier. there was a paurhamasihting between israel little earlier. there was a paurhamas that] between israel little earlier. there was a paurhamas that came een israel little earlier. there was a paurhamas that came intoisrael little earlier. there was a paurhamas that came into force and hamas that came into force this morning as you say, it is a

small piece of good news in an otherwise horrendous war. now, gentlemen , we're seeing nothing gentlemen, we're seeing nothing but division at the moment. it feels in this country partly because of the war in the middle east. but it started if you go back , it started before, i think back, it started before, i think you would put brexit into that category. we'd also put lockdowns in there. then we had ukraine, and it feels like in all of these instances, we're encouraged to pick a side pick a side, you're either right or you're wrong, and then you turn against who don't agree against people who don't agree with you . on a day like today, with you. on a day like today, though, i think it's worth considering how we move forward. paul without everybody hating each other, without there being violence on the streets , would violence on the streets, would you like to see this in a sense be the start of people moving towards that direction? yeah >> i mean, i welcome this very strongly. you do have to sides, including in britain , at each including in britain, at each other's throats, whether they're the pro—israeli side, the pro—palestine side. and we need

to remember that this is not a binary conflict. actually, this is a conflict where both sides have got a just cause to a certain degree . i'm not talking certain degree. i'm not talking about hamas. i have no time for hamas. they are terrorists. but the israelis and the palestinians more widely , both palestinians more widely, both sides in that dispute have got legitimate causes . they've got legitimate causes. they've got legitimate causes. they've got legitimate grievances historically. and i've been really disappointed by the way in which some people have adopted binary positions on what is a complex conflict . is a complex conflict. >> why do you think that's happened, though ? i have happened, though? i have a suspicion it's because there was largely an ignorance about the situation in israel and palestine. october the 7th happened. it was broadcast all over social media and therefore instantly the it was the palestinians were the good guy. and therefore there's a confusion about the difference between the palestinians and hamas as a terrorist organisation, particularly maybe amongst young, which not amongst the young, which is not to say that there isn't you know, there is nuance here. >> yeah, palestine has always been a cause that's been

associated on associated with many people on the left and of course many people on the left see israel as an enemy because it's so closely unked an enemy because it's so closely linked to america, which on the left is public enemy number one, although interestingly , israel although interestingly, israel has had historical support on the left. you know, the labour party itself, labour party friends of israel, trade union, friends of israel, trade union, friends of israel, a group that i've been involved in in the past. so it's not like everyone on the left is anti—israel, but in interestingly, just as there is a dichotomy on that issue across wider society , that's across wider society, that's very much the case. on the left as well. i've seen people on the left at each other's throats over this issue, whether they're pro—israeli or pro—palestinian. and i just think and i've argued on the left that the only way we're going resolve we're going to resolve it, whether we like it or not, i don't think one side is going to beat in this conflict. beat the other in this conflict. israel is clearly more powerful than the palestinians than hamas. got than the palestinians than hafactor got than the palestinians than hafactor in got than the palestinians than hafactor in the got than the palestinians than hafactor in the fact got than the palestinians than hafactor in the fact that got to factor in the fact that hezbollah potentially hezbollah is potentially involved. potentially hezbollah is potentially involved. so potentially hezbollah is potentially involved. so i potentially hezbollah is potentially involved. so i don't entially hezbollah is potentially involved. so i don't thinkly hezbollah is potentially involved. so i don't think one side is necessarily going

necessarily to defeat the necessarily going to defeat the other, because the reason being from of view, you from israel's point of view, you can't all an ideology. this can't kill all an ideology. this is the key thing. you might be able degrade hamas i'm able to degrade hamas and i'm sure they're achieve sure they're going to achieve that greater or lesser that to a greater or lesser extent . but you have to extent. but then you have to think what comes next, extent. but then you have to think the what comes next, extent. but then you have to think the idea comes next, extent. but then you have to think the idea thatas next, extent. but then you have to think the idea that the ext, because the idea that the palestinians if see hamas palestinians, if they see hamas gone , are going to and allow gone, are going to and allow kind of israel to occupy the place for whatever period of time are then going to say, oh, well, that's that's fine, that's the the dispute. we've no the end of the dispute. we've no longer protecting us. the end of the dispute. we've no l> daniel. it's we could get we could all night here could spend all night here talking rights talking about the rights and wrongs particular wrongs of this particular conflict . but you think wrongs of this particular conflict. but you think one conflict. but do you think one of reasons, as i saying, of the reasons, as i was saying, that there such a it has that there is such a it has become so divisive, particularly amongst really amongst people who didn't really have on this until have an opinion on this until recently, is because there a recently, is because there is a kind ignorance what kind of ignorance about what the history conflict a

history of this conflict with a lot of british people. well there's a history about about abroad generally in britain, and people don't know as much as they should. >> and i'm sure that contributes to something. it's very difficult to disagree with what paul has in very paul has said in the very general terms in which he's said it, and that there is right and wrong on both sides. and there is a history that's absolutely true nonetheless, fact true. but nonetheless, the fact is a ceasefire in itself is is that a ceasefire in itself is a military objective for hamas. that there has to be as a goal of this conflict, there has to be an idea that hamas, as an organisation is going to be operationally eradicate , hated operationally eradicate, hated and that that is going to take military action. and that is something that the israelis are not only entitled to, in my view, but they're doing it also on behalf of the west. so the idea it's all want idea that it's all we all want to get together and love each other and so on and find solutions that simply isn't possible while have an possible while you have an organisation is organisation there that is dedicated of organisation there that is ded israeli of organisation there that is dedisraeli state of organisation there that is dedisraeli state and of organisation there that is dedisraeli state and willing of organisation there that is dedisraeli state and willing to the israeli state and willing to undertake and willing to undertake and willing to undertake terrorism against grannies and children in order

to achieve their ends. boasting of it. >> but if we just think, do you think, daniel, then that you disagree with me then and you believe that there can be a military solution this military solution to this historical complex, multi—layered there can be a military solution to the eradication of hamas that doesn't solve in the long term. >> no. but then there is a you know, the ira is no longer operative. and so conditions are created in which you can have some form of peace and some form a ceasefire. >> before we reached the and some form of peace and some form, wasn't there. >> yeah, but it was a ceasefire based, frankly, on the utter degradation the ira by by degradation of the ira by by penetration by british, by british mean, they british agents. i mean, they were were utterly were utterly they were utterly gerry haven't gerry adams said they haven't gone come on. gone away, you know, come on. they defeated. and they were utterly defeated. and if they haven't away, if they haven't gone away, utterly defeated, know, utterly defeated, you know, they were as were utterly defeated as a military force. >> look at this. this is >> but look at this. this is kind of qed. this is what i'm talking about. we have two people, very intelligent , people, very intelligent, articulate, informed people everywhere. but in the absence

of them, we put those two. but you know, you know, and this is and instantly the tensions go right. this is what it does. it makes everybody be divided . and makes everybody be divided. and i don't want that in this country. and i just want to look at a couple of initiatives that are going on, because that's what we have to be. that's what we think we have to be mindful of, is how we don't allow this conflict over there to cause more division in this country. this was to a this weekend was going to be a record. people poised record. 40,000 people are poised to walk in solidarity at the national against national march against anti—semitism, to anti—semitism, according to organisers. we've had these pro—palestinian marches every single on single weekend, even on remembrance weekend, and there's an organisation open now called together for humanity, which is brendan cox. you will remember the mp jo cox, who very sadly lost her life, was killed by by a far right terrorist. and brendan has set up an organisation and they're going to have a mass vigil on the 3rd of december where they want to bnng of december where they want to bring people together from all sides. brendan cox is quotas. many people feel paralysed

because they're scared that they're going to be called anti semitic islamophobic or semitic or islamophobic or pro—palestinian or pro—israeli, or to get wrong in some pro—palestinian or pro—israeli, or we're|et wrong in some pro—palestinian or pro—israeli, or we're looking)ng in some pro—palestinian or pro—israeli, or we're looking ati in some pro—palestinian or pro—israeli, or we're looking at a1 some pro—palestinian or pro—israeli, or we're looking at a picture way. we're looking at a picture of no doubt you of brendan there. no doubt you will his face. we need will recognise his face. we need more of this as well, don't we, here in this country? we? >> yeah. look, first of we >> yeah. look, first of all, we don't need be divided in don't need to be divided in this country because broadly speaking, country wholly speaking, this country is wholly irrelevant happening irrelevant to what's happening in gaza and israel . in gaza and israel. >> and tell that to the west end at the weekend. and we palestinians, you know, we could all thing and all ignore the whole thing and it would make no practical difference to the outcome. >> um, so if we choose, you know, want a know, if people want to make a fuss about it and go virtue signalling and go on marches, that's good if that's fine. is it good if people together and don't people come together and don't and more united about it? and are more united about it? well, course, that's well, of course, that's absolutely good idea. and absolutely a very good idea. and i praise the motives of the people organising these marches. but marchers don't don't actually create unity . marchers actually create unity. marchers are for people who go on marches , but they create unity for that particular day. >> it sends a very >> and it sends out a very powerful of division. powerful message of division. i mean, labour party is

mean, the labour party is tearing apart this tearing itself apart over this issue. yeah, as i say, issue. paul yeah, as i say, that's a reflection the that's a reflection of the historic on the historic differences on the israel—palestine, an issue i don't agree with daniel necessarily that marches don't achieve anything. >> i mean , look apartheid in >> i mean, look at apartheid in south africa , for example. the south africa, for example. the reason that apartheid came to an end simply because of the end was simply because of the huge international pressure and the international anti—apartheid movement that campaigned for sanctions that put people on the streets, that boycotted south africa. although on the face africa. and although on the face of it, you don't necessarily think at the time and i've been on plenty marches in my time on plenty of marches in my time as an activist on left, as an activist on the left, trust you think the trust me. and you think at the time not necessarily time you're not necessarily having you're not necessarily making difference. in making a difference. often in the scheme of things you the greater scheme of things you are. look, when david cameron wanted go to war in syria ten wanted to go to war in syria ten years ago or whatever it is now, and the labour party and most mps voted against it and stopped it from happening, stopped that military action from taking place . i think that was place. i think that was a hangover from the iraq war years previously because of the

fallout of that and the huge pressure on the government at the time. not to go to war and the time. not to go to war and the massive criticism it got afterwards . i think that lots of afterwards. i think that lots of mps thought, hold on a second, we could be doing exactly the same thing again. so it's like throwing a pebble into a pond. you know, it can have a ripple effect a long, long time effect for a long, long time afterwards. yeah. so don't write off demonstrations and protests . yeah. >> you're not going to create unity by demonstrations and protests. you're not going to create unity. what creates unity in a country is adherence to institutions and adherence to institutions. adherence to institutions. adherence to institutions. we've spent the last 40 years totally last 30 or 40 years totally trashing institutions as the trashing our institutions as the only things people feel united about the monarchy. about now are the monarchy. thanks to the late queen and the way she the way she conducted herself in that , i would say i'd herself in that, i would say i'd say the monarchy is broadly a unifying thing. and in some cases to national sports teams, although they have turned out to be tremendously woke and useless when it comes to anything to do with to do with the current

conflict . everything else we've conflict. everything else we've sort of trashed. but that's what actually makes people feel they're part of something. they're part of a bigger thing. and we really do need a program of nation building, not marching up and down whitehall by sort of, you know, sort of bleeding heart. >> no, but which i'm just going to interrupt you because daniel moylan, that is the most beautiful trail to my advert break, because you've pretty much exactly what we're much set up exactly what we're going to be talking about after this very quick break. we're going to be discussing what happened ireland yesterday. happened in ireland yesterday. it tragedy followed it was just tragedy followed by another go another tragedy. but don't go anywhere. .

you this morning. thank you very much indeed. >> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> good evening . it's dewbs& co >> good evening. it's dewbs& co with me bev turner tonight, keeping me company until 7:00. conservative life peer in the house of lords, daniel moylan and the writer and trade unionist paul embery. okay. it

was almost exactly 24 hours ago. we saw the tragedy of three children and two adults stabbed on the streets of dublin after rumours that the perpetrator was not born in ireland. there were mass riots. people setting fire to their own city and police officers being attacked. ireland's asylum system is currently bursting at the seams. there's a housing crisis that is making homeless. can this making people homeless. can this help to explain the underlying angerin help to explain the underlying anger in irish society? daniel let me come to you first. what do you think was behind these riots? >> well, i don't know . and i >> well, i don't know. and i don't i don't know what's behind the riots. and i don't know anything about the person who is alleged to have committed these offences or the rioters. that hasn't been put on television. and of course, there'll be police investigations and trials , and charges , presumably, and charges brought. so one needs to be careful about what one says. but i do think it's clear that the dubun i do think it's clear that the dublin elite has played this absolutely wrong from the first moment. first is the head of moment. the first is the head of the garda siochana comes on television tell the television and will not tell the truth. will not be honest

truth. he will not be honest about what he knows about the alleged perpetrator. >> the police. >> and that's the police. >> and that's the police. >> the police. >> that's the police. so he won't won't that. the won't he won't do that. the second thing is that he he he characterises the rioters as radicalised by the far right. now, this is a phrase that is intended to exclude issued any sort of understanding or wish to understand what is motivating them. if you're radicalised , them. if you're radicalised, that's effectively you're brainwashed . you can't have an brainwashed. you can't have an intelligent conversation with someone who's been brainwashed and if you radicalised by the far right, this sort of iconic, mythical far right, far right, this sort of iconic, mythical far right , then frankly mythical far right, then frankly you're basically a zombie with sort of blood coming out of your mouth as you froth around. and so using that is an attempt to shut down discussion right from the outset. an and of course then the t shirt comes on and he says, we have got some of the most draconian anti—hate laws in the anti—hate speech laws in the whole of the european union. and our response to this is going to be to make them even more draconian. so they're playing it

completely wrong and they will they from this , in they will suffer from this, in my view. >> we're looking the pictures >> we're looking at the pictures here, vandalism here, just mindless vandalism and hooliganism and damage . but and hooliganism and damage. but i'm interested in the why, paul, why these predominantly men felt the need to do this last night. what do you think it is ? and do what do you think it is? and do you have an understanding of what the phrase far right means? >> well, the ireland is famous for supporting for its support for supporting for its support for immigration, not least because so many of its own citizens have emigrated across the years. you know , we've seen the years. you know, we've seen the years. you know, we've seen the irish diaspora and so on. but i think this is the consequence of an excessively liberal immigration policy. that's the truth of it. i mean, the figures are that something like 112,000 non—irish because some irish citizens returned but non—irish citizens arrived into the country last year , the the country last year, the second highest on record . i second highest on record. i suspect that, you know, we may see those figures again going forward and everybody , even the

forward and everybody, even the irish, i think, has got a certain tolerance level we're talking about here, a country of 5 million people. so it's not a big country, which was only 3 million a few years ago . so its million a few years ago. so its population has risen dramatically. it has there is a housing crisis in dublin and pressure on public services. and what have you. and the truth is that most people, i suspect in ireland just as in britain, are welcoming of immigrants and you know, pro—immigration in a broad sense. but just understand that actually, look, it is a numbers game in many respects. and if the numbers are too high and i'm manageable and we know from history that immigrants will often settle in already pressed, hard pressed working class areas, then people do start worrying about that rapid demographic change. the big cultural changes that take place quickly in their society. on the economic side of things, if there's an oversupply of labour, there's an oversupply of labour, the impact that that can have in terms of downward pressure on wages. and so on. and i often

think of immigration bit like think of immigration a bit like a like wine, you know, in a bit like wine, you know, in moderation. it's a good thing. but go glug it and if but if you go glug in it and if you use it to excess, then it can have negative impacts. and that's something we that's that's something that we don't understand in this don't seem to understand in this country the nuance country that what the nuance that you've communicated that you've just communicated there , that just there, that you've just described is a political hot potato . potato. >> it is a conversational hot potato . so there are some dinner potato. so there are some dinner party tables in north london where you would be kicked out for making such a radical sentiment as i'd like to have us limit the number of people who come and live here. how did that happen, daniel? that we can't have that? >> i don't know. i don't get ianed >> i don't know. i don't get invited to dinner parties. >> me neither. >> me neither. >> london, we host >> in north london, we host them. we sit here instead. >> kicked out the north london. >> you know what mean? there >> you know what i mean? there is. is. i'm a usual. is. there is. i'm a usual. >> ireland is different. ireland is us. because although is not like us. because although he , know, ireland is he says, you know, ireland is famously welcome welcoming immigration, is immigration, that's that is a very, very recent phenomenon . very, very recent phenomenon. okay. ireland was absolutely not a country of immigration until i

agree, until 20 or so years. so years ago. can i finish, paul? ireland. >> ireland. let me go on to correct the point. >> i say generally there's support for the concept of immigration in ireland, not necessarily large numbers coming in, but because the irish generally with immigrants . generally with immigrants. that's the point that i'm making. go on, daniel. >> yeah, i got the point we're making. i'm making a different point. making a point which point. i'm making a point which says very, very recent says that is a very, very recent phenomenon, that ireland is a country in which there was practically no immigration until 20 years ago. 30 years 20 or 25 years ago. 30 years ago, would hardly ever see ago, you would hardly ever see a black person in in in ireland. nobody moved there. it was a country of emigration . so a lot country of emigration. so a lot of this is new for the irish. a lot of it started. latin americans came and came for contract workers and things like that years ago. now you that 25, 30 years ago. now you have a large number of people who are asylum seekers and i imagine you have some illegal asylum seekers. of course you've got legal asylum seekers like they've generous they've been very generous in welcoming refugees welcoming ukrainian refugees

into but i imagine into the country. but i imagine there's illegal asylum as well because the borders are relatively open and irish society is not used to this and it's being changed in a very dramatic way and it's very, very different from what's been happening in this country in our experience, which is much longer experience, which is much longer experience of people coming to this country as immigrants. right to the 19th century right back to the 19th century with jews coming. so in with jews coming. and so on in the late 19th century and so on. so i think ireland is in a very stressed condition about this. the housing crisis in dublin, which is chronic. i mean, you could say there's been a housing crisis in dublin since the 19th century. there is a major, major housing crisis in dublin which can be made worse, i can only be made worse, i assume, the pressure of assume, by the pressure of immigration. people blame immigration. and people blame politicians for it . and rightly politicians for it. and rightly or wrongly, blame the or wrongly, they blame the politicians and clearly they're going to blame the immigrants. >> they're going to blame them a damn sight more for to blame them sight as them a damn sight more as a result of this. >> but it is interesting, isn't

it? because when you see flashpoints like this and the tinderbox just tinderbox that you've just described, slightest described, that the slightest thing off, that thing can set things off, that feels relatively new, i would say. >> i suspect there were far right elements in that riot last night, actually. i mean, i don't know for sure. but i think know that for sure. but i think if ask somebody who, you if you ask somebody who, you know, what happened know, because of what happened yesterday of the yesterday in terms of the stabbing, as them stabbing, you go as some of them did, some of these protesters did, some of these protesters did set fire to a hotel did, and set fire to a hotel which was housed in migrants. and we saw the pictures on social media. there may have been kids in that hotel. yeah then, frankly, you deserve exemplary. >> but why ? >> but why? >> but why? >> why do you? no sympathy. you deserve no sympathy from what? >> but what does what do you mean by far? right? what is your definition of. >> well, we can all agree they deserve exemplary punishment. >> absolutely . i >> i accept absolutely. i accept. been an accept. there's been an inflation the far right inflation of the term far right to point where it's almost to the point where it's almost become meaningless. these days. i you get this government, i mean, you get this government, the tory government called far right, think is a right, which i think is a complete i mean, my complete nonsense. i mean, my understanding right

understanding of far right and i think my generation has understanding right are understanding of far right are skinheads nazi sympathisers skinheads and nazi sympathisers and people in bomber jackets and and people in bomberjackets and doc marten boots with, you know, tattoos and swastikas and that's that's. but what's the definition of far but what you've just described fashion like you've described predominantly their outfit as opposed ideology. opposed to their ideology. >> , i don't think you would >> no, i don't think you would don an outfit like that. >> bev, unless you unless you had that ideology. >> but i could i could wear doc marten boots and shave my head, but it wouldn't make me a far right. pope to right. the old pope used to wear doc marten. >> so john paul second >> so john paul the second i just, i just want to pressure on the definition a more the definition a bit more because like you say, it does get even agree with left >> i don't even agree with left and right anymore. think those and right anymore. i think those are meaningless are absolute meaningless political 20. political terms. in 20. >> i accept people can >> no, look, i accept people can wear doc martens myself. of course you can. what wear course you can. what you wear doesn't always define it. but the point that i'm making is if you far right and you've got you are far right and you've got that and that you know that ideology and that you know that ideology and that you know that dress code, you like, that dress code, if you like, then you're someone, then then you're someone, i think, deserves to be think, who deserves to be banned. >> do mean banned. » no banned.

>>oo >> do you mean more like a white supremacy? be supremacy? that might be a better way of saying it or just a racist? >> well, think think until >> well, i think i think until fairly recently, i think the fairly recently, i think far the term far right was well understood and well defined and was, know , essentially, as i was, you know, essentially, as i defined it, you go back 10 or defined it, if you go back 10 or 20 years and you use that term in political discourse, i think most people would have shared my definition . i mean, i went to definition. i mean, i went to the labour party conference and see delegates getting up and describing brexit as a far right project. i've seen , as i said, project. i've seen, as i said, trade union leaders describe this government as a far right. >> we get called a far right channel. i've never seen a pair of doc marten boots in this building problem is, the people who genuinely are far right. >> you know, the people with the swastika know, swastika tattoos and, you know, the whatever . it the skinheads and whatever. it allows it allows them to get away with it because. because they just because. because then they just seep wider crowd. was seep into the wider crowd. was there you understood there a time when you understood what right was? what far right was? >> but now that meaning >> daniel but now that meaning has changed? >> yeah, there were a couple of parties, 20, 30 years ago, like the british national party, and

there was another one, national front. >> national front? >> national front? >> yeah, that's right. which you would category of would put into a category of sort heirs to mosley's , if sort of heirs to mosley's, if you like. and i'd and they never attracted any significant electoral support. and and they never did any real damage or harm. you could largely ignore them. now we see this sort of threat as if they're somehow if you're not watching the far right the whole time, they're going to come and get you and they'll swamp the country and we'll all be wiped out by the far right because they're so but i think they've any i don't think they've got any more they than they more support than they than they had back then. >> it's a way of dismissing, if you like, tradition, small c conservative that are conservative opinions that are actually by millions actually held by millions of people yeah people in this country. yeah now, know, like in ten, now, you know, just like in ten, 20 those 20 years ago, like those opinions not provoked opinions would not have provoked any kind contentious debate any kind of contentious debate at all in terms of whether they would be how they would be branded. but nowadays they often get being on far get dismissed as being on far right on the far right. i mean, it's insane, actually. it needs

right on the far right. i mean, it':be sane, actually. it needs right on the far right. i mean, it':be challenged.ly. it needs to be challenged. >> okay. >> okay. >> i want carry this on after >> i want to carry this on after the break. so i don't think we really scratched surface of really scratched the surface of that. it's issue. and that. it's a big issue. and especially having a conservative peer well, peer here because why? well, because that is being because what is it that is being conserved this conservative conserved by this conservative party? because clearly the people reacting last people who were reacting last night and we're seeing it with this right gets this idea of far right gets thrown at people who thrown around at people who actually want to see more of what they recognise great what they recognise as great britain whether what they recognise as great britéis whether what they recognise as great britéis the whether what they recognise as great britéis the demographic whether what they recognise as great britéis the demographic of1ether what they recognise as great britéis the demographic of the er that is the demographic of the population , our institutions, if population, our institutions, if you like , as well. but anyway, you like, as well. but anyway, don't go anywhere. we're going to be talking about that in just a moment. tis dewbs & co with bev a moment. tis dewbs& co with bev turner this evening .

>> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> good evening bev turner here, sitting in for michelle, just for tonight, i've got paul embry and daniel moylan with me. we were talking just before the

break about the riots last night in dublin and why that might have happened and the idea that the instantly the t shirt came out said, these are far out and said, these are far right media have right protesters. the media have all described them as far right protesters . we kind of touched protesters. we kind of touched on daniel before the break. on it. daniel before the break. but i'm interested in what those young angry about. and young men are angry about. and it is to do with immigration and the and the tearing down of the social fabric and what they might see as a country that they want to conserve thing rather than change in such a rapid way. we had huge immigration figures, record immigration figures into the uk this week. record immigration figures into the uk this week . just over the uk this week. just over 700,000, 600,000 the year before was rounded up to seven 45,000. it was hardly a rounding up. >> it was an extra 140,000 people. >> where did they come from? >> where did they come from? >> by the way? why did that figure suddenly did that figure get rounded up just order to get rounded up just in order to make year look better? make this year look better? >> don't just to deal >> i don't know. just to deal with i can't speak for with dublin. i can't speak for what people who were what those people who were rioting like you, i rioting thought. but like you, i think should interested.

think we should be interested. and even we're wholly and even if we're wholly unsympathetic, should unsympathetic, like we should want know and the irish state want to know and the irish state doesn't appear to want to know. and that will be to their detriment. it really will. more i'm obviously happy are talking about my own country where i know a little bit more about things. >> well, please do. >> well, please do. >> and of course the figures are in defensible and a leading backbench member of parliament, i believe sirjacob rees—mogg has appeared on your channel and apologised for them personally and i think there should be a lot of apologies for them because are completely because they are completely indefensible. driven by indefensible. they are driven by the for budget the office for budget responsibility model l, which basically . seems to be responsibility model l, which basically. seems to be running the country now and running the budget, which says the more immigrants you've got, the better off you are and the more you afford tax but of you can afford tax cuts. but of course you might be better off as a country because you've got more people and more economic activity. you might be richer as activity. you might be richer as a a country, but a bigger as a country, but you're bigger necessarily as you're not bigger necessarily as per head. and in fact, you might

be worse off per head, which is how a lot of people feel. and understandably, because incomes are down, not up. are going down, not up. >> so do you think that it is as simple that when we talk simple as that when we talk about doesn't seem to be about that doesn't seem to be will the home office, doesn't will in the home office, doesn't seem to a will at the height seem to be a will at the height of government, the top of of government, at the top of government to control immigration think immigration figures. you think it is simply they're it is simply because they're looking balance looking at numbers on a balance sheet that sheet and deciding that immigration money? immigration equals money? >> think there's a mixture of >> i think there's a mixture of things. one of them. things. that's one of them. that's very powerful driving that's a very powerful driving force. there's the force. but there's also the question of whether organs question of whether the organs of are fit for purpose. i of state are fit for purpose. i mean, ask the home office mean, if you ask the home office to something radical and to do something radical and dramatic reduce immigration, dramatic to reduce immigration, would actually it? are would they actually do it? are they it? would they willing to do it? would they willing to do it? would they on strike? would they go on strike? would their trade the government trade unions sue the government and would they be capable? even if they were willing to it? if they were willing to do it? would be capable of doing would they be capable of doing it? are serious it? and these are very serious questions that nobody at the top seems particularly engaged with. >> and of course , we'll land on >> and of course, we'll land on on if keir starmer wins, the election will land on his desk

as well , because even though as well, because even though there'll be more sympathetic to there'll be more sympathetic to the labour party, it still doesn't make them more competent. >> do you think also, paul, when we have this debate about immigration, we spend i say immigration, we spend and i say we a channel or the whole we as a channel or the whole media, every media media, actually every media outlet spend so much time outraged about the small boats crossing that this huge legal number a city, the number of people , a city the size of people, a city the size of cambridge arriving in a year, we lose sight of the bigger picture. >> and i always say to my colleagues on the left, i try and persuade them that look rapid and large scale movements of labour have got the same ability to cause social and economic disruption in local communities as rapid and large scale movements of capital are. and that is a lesson that the left simply doesn't understand. most of them. these days are in favour of the kind of utopian open borders position, which is actually an inversion of what it was 30 or 40 years ago, where it was 30 or 40 years ago, where it was understood on the left that actually it was important for governments to have control of

the labour supply because the labour supply is ultimately a market dynamic which so easy to forget that like all market dynamics. but it needs to be regulated. >> which kind of brings us back to our previous conversation about the fact that the left right paradigm just utterly meaningless. >> now the open borders position, which is now so dominant was once dominant on the left, was once the left the preserve of the far left trotskyists and anarchists and hyper call them, hyper liberals, as i call them, and i say, the position that and as i say, the position that i articulate still the left, i articulate still on the left, which you know, strong which is, you know, strong border controls, regulation of the labour supply as to be the labour supply so as to be able around housing and able to plan around housing and welfare employment welfare and employment to prevent on prevent downward pressure on wages so on. you articulate wages and so on. you articulate that on left. that position on the left. nowadays, as do , even nowadays, as i do, and even though it was entirely though it was, it was entirely a traditional position on the left, so long you're left, not so long ago, you're now upon as some sort of now looked upon as some sort of extreme native ist, you know. yeah. and there's no there's no you know, that's part of the reason why why , why it's part of reason why why, why it's part of the reason why hashtag be kind paul >> you're on the left. you should be nicer than that. and that's what they're thinking, isn't it a big reason, by the

way, the left have lost the way, why the left have lost the support many working class voters? >> that's not a coincidence that at the same time as that position has developed as the dominant left, dominant theme on the left, they've gradually lost the position, vote position, lost the vote of working voters. working class voters. >> yeah. comment from >> yeah. one last comment from you, you don't mind, you, daniel, if you don't mind, on particular issue. in on this particular issue. in terms of where on when are we going to start seeing the people who night , not who were rioting last night, not feeling the need to do so anymore? and i'm not excusing that behaviour. was that behaviour. it was ridiculous. stupid. it ridiculous. it was stupid. it was thuggery, but something to figures a situation figures them in a situation where feel like someone who where they feel like someone who wasn't has done wasn't born here has done something those something bad. when are those people easier? people going to sleep easier? >> again, i can't talk >> well, again, i can't talk about the people in dublin because we have idea what because we have no idea what they thinking. they were thinking. >> well, people who. whatever. >> but but, but but i think people feel and i think people here feel and i think this is the small boats are this is why the small boats are important, though are not important, though they are not numerically as as the legal numerically as big as the legal migration long they're migration by a long way. they're a it. and that is a fraction of it. and that is that people also feel that the small boats illustrate is unfairness . it's a queue small boats illustrate is

unfairness. it's a queue jumping type thing that we don't like. and it illustrates also the government is doesn't isn't capable of controlling its own borders on the legal migration side, people i think are a bit more balanced and are willing to say, yeah, we can see that there are some jobs where you actually might need somebody and so on. the nhs care workers and so on. they're more sympathetic on all of that, but they wonder why students are allowed to bring in large families effectively if you come and study here, might large families effectively if you yous and study here, might large families effectively if you you aand study here, might large families effectively if you you a fair study here, might large families effectively if you you a fair amountere, might large families effectively if you you a fair amount of might large families effectively if you you a fair amount of money cost you a fair amount of money to in the first place. to get in in the first place. but effectively you can bring your whole family and stay the rest your life. nobody quite rest of your life. nobody quite understands is. rest of your life. nobody quite uncyeah,1ds is. rest of your life. nobody quite uncyeah,1ds was is. rest of your life. nobody quite uncyeah,1ds was over 100,000. >> yeah, there was over 100,000. i it does the government, i mean, it does the government, to they are trying to their credit, they are trying to their credit, they are trying to push through legislation to stop push through legislation. >> they could have stopped it before, but we have this university sector, which is absolutely large university sector, which is abscwhich large university sector, which is abscwhich is large university sector, which is abscwhich is absolutelylarge university sector, which is abscwhich is absolutely feeding and which is absolutely feeding on these these fees and desperately on these these fees and despera'we to understand >> and we need to understand that that's long standing immigrants in this country themselves. know, second, themselves. you know, second, third , third generation immigrants, they themselves have concern

over the lack of control over, you know, the fact that numbers have been so vast in recent years . there's have been so vast in recent years. there's this have been so vast in recent years . there's this myth, years. there's this myth, i think, that every immigrant or anyone descended from immigrants is automatically in favour of open borders . i speak to is automatically in favour of open borders. i speak to a is automatically in favour of open borders . i speak to a lot open borders. i speak to a lot of people in that position who are equally as concerned as if you pull up the you like to pull up the drawbridge. >> absolutely right. >> you're absolutely right. right. to another right. we've got to take another quick gentlemen. quick break, gentlemen. after the we're going to be the break, we're going to be talking about social talking about the social contract between teachers and parents, never been parents, which has never been more damaged. don't go anywhere .

now, i'm normally on the telly at 930 in the morning, which might explain why i don't normally get handed a glass of this. it would make monday to thursday much more fun. cheers fellas. >> slide it to you. under the normal monday to thursday, don't they? is. well

they? that's what it is. well cheers. >> it's start of the >> it's the start of the weekend. in fact, it's a good job we've got this because we're talking and talking about kids, teachers and schools issues schools and very few issues stressed more than stressed out parents more than this. so the head ofsted, this. so so the head of ofsted, it's her final annual report in the role. and she that the the role. and she said that the unwritten between unwritten agreement between families is broken. families and children is broken. she that respect affecting she said that respect affecting the policies in return for a good education has been fractured. ofsted has also seen an increase in parents complaining about school policies, calling policies, and they're calling for greater central guidance on a number of issues. she's right, paul a number of issues. she's right, paul. you've got kids , right? paul. you've got kids, right? what's happened? because she's absolutely right that when i was growing up , absolutely right that when i was growing up, i'm sure when all of us were growing up, if you did something wrong , your parents something wrong, your parents believed the teacher that you had done something wrong. i remember if i ever got told off at school, i was frightened of the teacher. and then i was frightened of what my mum would say because she would believe the teacher somewhere along the way that's changed that the

parents now believe kids and parents now believe the kids and that only accelerated post that has only accelerated post lockdowns where school was apparently optional and not that important . important. >> it's been a big cultural shift that's the truth of it. parents, i think, often find it difficult to believe that their precious little johnny could possibly anything wrong. and possibly do anything wrong. and i think that comes from a society that is too quick to indulge. children often we treat them as fonts of wisdom , as if them as fonts of wisdom, as if they've got all of the knowledge of life. they know the keys to the secret of the universe. we've got to listen to them the whole time. actually you know, you do have to listen to kids. of course you do. but their life experience is nothing like the average person. and actually, we dismiss talk dismiss elderly people. we talk about as gammon. they've about them as gammon. they've got offer us. you got nothing to offer us. you know, only the young generation can point the way forward. very different they do different to what they do in other societies. places like japan and china places like japan and china and places like that, they genuine only that, where they genuine only value of people value the wisdom of older people and to that and i think correlated to that cultural shift has been this cultural shift has been this cultural shift has been this cultural shift that see in

schools. >> i tend to blame the start of most of society's evils of today i >> -- >> daniel on tony blair most routes can lead back to tony blair's administration. i think , blair's administration. i think, and something i think did change dunng and something i think did change during that time whereby children were treated , as paul children were treated, as paul says, as just little adults . and says, as just little adults. and we've forgotten the idea that children are children. >> i think it goes back further than that. i think, first of all, there's an all, the idea that there's an unwritten that's broken unwritten contract that's broken down wrong way of down is the wrong way of thinking isn't thinking about it. there isn't an that's an unwritten contract that's broken there was broken down. there was a relationship between in most parents teachers , which was parents and teachers, which was essentially one of deference in the past. so you go back to the 1960s and 1970s, the teachers were middle class. the parents came in large numbers from this very large industrial working class that we had at the time. and the parents deferred to and looked up to the teacher in that class sense that started breaking down even before tony blair. and it's been replaced by something which , you know, the something which, you know, the

essential point that we always have to remind ourselves of is that the primary responsibility for educating a child lies on the parent, not on the state. the state is there to facilitate the parent carrying out their obugafions the parent carrying out their obligations and their duties and indeed, in some respects, to force them by insisting you have to send your child to school. i understand all of that. and we'll make we'll make the schooling free and we'll make it really easy for you to fulfil those duties. but that means you need, in the modern age, some form of consultation, some form of bringing the parents in to decision making about the way the school is run. and what we're seeing increasingly in schools, especially on hot button issues like transgender ism and things like that, is that the schools who are confused and perhaps there should be more central guidance and i sympathise with the teachers and the head teachers who are very often confused but are following trends , is that are following trends, is that the parents don't want to follow and they're trying to blank off the parents from actually being

involved . so i think this is a involved. so i think this is a totally different relationship totally different relationship to the one that has existed in the past and it's not working. >> i think the fading of authority has percolated even through to things like school reports. i mean, when i was a kid, the teachers wouldn't hesitate you a negative hesitate to give you a negative school and you know , school report. and you know, you'd home and say and you'd be sent home and say and you'd be sent home and say and you'd would be told, you'd be parents would be told, he done this. hasn't he hasn't done this. he hasn't done disruptive and done that. he's disruptive and what and i got few what have you. and i got a few of those. now a days it of those. yeah. now a days it seems to me reports tend to seems to me that reports tend to be, you know, glistening and, you know, well, that job. >> it's all positive >> well, it's all positive parenting because positive parenting because the positive teachers potentially worried teachers are potentially worried that going held that they're going to be held responsible that responsible for the fact that the isn't performing as he the kid isn't performing as he should be. >> that's interesting. and i think somewhere along line, >> that's interesting. and i thifact,»mewhere along line, >> that's interesting. and i thifact, it'snhere along line, >> that's interesting. and i thifact, it's interesting] line, >> that's interesting. and i thifact, it's interesting that line, in fact, it's interesting that you talk about the 60s and 70s, daniel, became daniel, because parenting became a our parents were a verb like our parents were just parents, whereas no such thing as parents, whereas parenting became a verb. and if it's a verb, you can you can succeed or you can fail at it. yeah and therefore, i think that changed the mindset of parenting

because suddenly the child is a reflection of whether you're any good whereas it good at something, whereas it used be you had a naughty kid used to be you had a naughty kid or you had quite a good kid. >> and we have to be honest, we didn't hold parents. we have to look impacts the look at the impacts of the general breakdown of family life in know in this country. now, i know that terribly sort that sounds like a terribly sort of wing argument, and i'll of right wing argument, and i'll be hammered by colleagues on be hammered by my colleagues on the saying it, but it's the left for saying it, but it's wearing doc martens down here. yeah absolutely true. yeah but it's absolutely true. you there are more you know, there are more fatherless families than ever. if lack of if you have that lack of authority home child authority in the home as a child and you're able to push the boundaries, the truth boundaries, then the truth is, when stupid, they when kids are not stupid, they go school they that go to school and they take that character, if like. and that character, if you like. and that belief that they can push the boundanes belief that they can push the boundaries into school and then the trying to the teachers are then trying to pick pieces. i think that pick up the pieces. i think that general family life general breakdown of family life is consequences and we is a huge consequences and we never talk about it because we think we're going offend think we're going to offend single families. single parent families. >> might daniel, >> but you might think, daniel, that is breaking that if the family is breaking down, those single parents would rely teachers to rely more on the teachers to help with their kids. help them with their kids. >> instead pushing >> but instead they're pushing them it's strange, it?

>> yeah, it's strange, isn't it? because what parents are interested in is expected because what parents are intparents in is expected because what parents are intparents and is expected because what parents are intparents and it's is expected because what parents are intparents and it's a expected because what parents are intparents and it's a good:ted because what parents are intparents and it's a good point of parents and it's a good point you this idea of you make about this idea of parenting as a thing. you know, it has changed over time. it was not that ago back in the not that long ago back in the early part of the 20th century, where concern of where the prime concern of parents with the parents was actually with the physical welfare and survival of their yeah, their children. yeah, from roughly the roughly from the time of the second on, could second world war on, you could bank that. you could say i'm pretty confident my child is going infancy. and going to survive infancy. and they'll they'll be they'll sort of they'll be looked a very low looked at. it was a very low bar, but was quite it was bar, but it was quite it was well, was a low but really well, it was a low but really important part. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and so now i can focus on on the education. what the child's education. what really is pushing and really matters is pushing and sometimes cruel pushing these children right exam children to get the right exam results the right exams, results to pass the right exams, to get into the right schools, to, you know, to make a success of themselves educationally and be move that was be able to move on. and that was the important thing. and the really important thing. and then in a sense, that then and then in a sense, that that so it became, that faded. and so it became, i'm going to this child i'm going to make this child into a person. yes. but into a good person. yes. but that's a sort of immense global activity that can't measure activity that you can't measure in exam grades or school tests

and puts huge strain on parents, many of whom, as paul says, are also struggling. and even if they're married , even if it's they're married, even if it's even if they're a couple, they are struggling with the fact that gordon brown created a labour market in which they're both expected to work a political point. >> and you believe it was >> and can you believe it was a run out of time? >> can you really run out of time? daniel thank you so much. paul time? daniel thank you so much. paul, to see you. cheers, paul, great to see you. cheers, everybody. i'll back everybody. i'll be back on monday have monday morning at 930. have a great weekend. >> hello. welcome to the latest gb news weather update from the met it'll be cold met office. it'll be a cold start on saturday morning, but it's going to be a sunny and dry day for with some lighter day for most with some lighter winds. we've got high pressure in charge bringing that dry weather to a lot of the country. but it is dragging in this northerly breeze. that's why northerly breeze. so that's why we've such a cold we've got quite such a cold start tomorrow morning. but through the evening through the rest of the evening that those will that those winds will stay fairly particularly along fairly brisk, particularly along the east coast. so still still bringing chilly here. bringing a chilly feel here. a bit cloud around here, bit more cloud around here, though, so that'll hold the

temperatures along temperatures up a little along the but across the the east coast. but across the west, it's a different story, as low as minus six degrees in some sheltered scotland and sheltered glens of scotland and as as minus four in rural as low as minus four in rural areas too, to start areas of wales, too, to start tomorrow morning. so a crisp and sunny to weekend. sunny start to the weekend. plenty of sunshine through the day. the cloud will linger across some northern and eastern coasts, but for many of us it will be a dry day. coasts, but for many of us it will be a dry day . though you will be a dry day. though you can't out odd shower can't rule out the odd shower now and again across parts of lincolnshire norfolk . lincolnshire and norfolk. despite the sunshine, it will still feel fairly chilly. highs of 7 or 8 degrees at most. so you will want a couple of layers if you're out and about on saturday through sunday, it will be a chilly start in the east once again. in the west, once again. but in the west, we're starting to see more unsettled weather arrive. bit unsettled weather arrive. a bit more into parts of more rain arriving into parts of wales the south—west, as wales and the south—west, as well as northern ireland. by mid—morning, that rain moves into the south—east on monday and into tuesday and it'll stay dry and bright across scotland

by welcome to the andersons real world tonight on the show, we've got the former labour mp denis macshane. >> we also got the editor of capex. that's alice demby. she's on the show for the first time. well, the trade unions andy macdonald is his second time on the show. looking forward to seeing him. we've got the seeing him. and we've got the former gb olympian and world champion swimmer foster. champion swimmer mark foster. and great tonight. we've and a great guest tonight. we've got towie towie, whatever got the towie towie, whatever that tv star junaid that is. reality tv star junaid ahmed. but first, let's go to the . news

the. news >>