appointed, if that's which has appointed, if that's the right word, a chat bot, an ai presence as a principal headteacher. all that and lots of chat with my amazing panellist and friend , tom buick. panellist and friend, tom buick. but first, an update on the news headunes but first, an update on the news headlines with radisson . headlines with radisson. >> thanks, neil. our top stories tonight, fresh weather warnings for snow and ice are in force until midday tomorrow for many parts of the uk, forecast as, say, temperatures could drop to minus 12 in parts of scotland. the met office has also issued an amber warning for cumbria , an amber warning for cumbria, saying some areas could see up to 15cm of snow. meteorologist jon hammond says the cold temperatures won't last that long, though the focus of the cold shifting northwards, something a bit milder, trying to push in from the south. >> then the cold air sweeps back south again later on monday into tuesday. so we're not waving goodbye to this cold spell just yet. i think through the middle

of potentially further of the week, potentially further severe frosts . and then later on severe frosts. and then later on this week into next weekend, a complete transformation. it's going to turn mild, wet, windy, soggy and horrible . soggy and horrible. >> a british soldier killed in kenya was just days from finishing his tour of the country . major kevin mccall was country. major kevin mccall was off duty when he died on wednesday . off duty when he died on wednesday. his off duty when he died on wednesday . his father says he wednesday. his father says he was shot while on a motorbike trip. the 32 year old had served in europe , the middle east, the in europe, the middle east, the falklands and africa. joseph mccall paid tribute to his son, described him as special, and his family's incredibly proud of his family's incredibly proud of his achievements . an 84 year old his achievements. an 84 year old man who died following a huge house explosion in edinburgh has been named locally as james smith. the blast, which happened in the babaton area last night, was heard from several miles away. mr smith is understood to have been in a neighbouring property. the 43 year old woman

and a 54 year old man were taken to hospital. police say there are no suspicious circumstances . are no suspicious circumstances. football fans who were charged following clashes in birmingham on thursday night have now been granted bail. a special court session has been taking place after violence erupted ahead of the aston villa match against legia warsaw . almost 30 of the legia warsaw. almost 30 of the defendants were granted conditional bail, including a 22 year old polish woman who pleaded not guilty to violent disorder . west midlands police disorder. west midlands police saying that five officers were injured after several polish fans were told they wouldn't be allowed into the stadium . train allowed into the stadium. train drivers have been braving the cold to attend picket lines across the country as they begin across the country as they begin a week of industrial action over pay- a week of industrial action over pay. commuters are facing seven days now of travel disruption . days now of travel disruption. know east midlands trains are running today and there's a limited service between london and scotland on lner as left members recently voted to

continue walkouts for the next six months. the rail delivery group saying that they should accept an 8% pay offer, but shadow culture secretary thangam debbonaire says the government needs to start negotiating strikes, help . strikes, help. >> none of us know the working people who want to get to work, people who want to get to work, people who want to get to work, people who want to get to visit family and friends. it's really important that these strikes are settled possible , and settled as soon as possible, and i that the i really hope that the government and the unions can negotiate a fair negotiate that and a fair settlement as soon as they can. >> the says it will not >> the us says it will not permit the forced relocation of palestinians from gaza or the west bank under any circumstance . aces vice president kamala harris made the comment on the sidelines of cop28 in dubai. she also says the us won't allow the besiegement of gaza or any redrawing of borders . redrawing of borders. >> the united states is unequivocal international humanitarian law must be respected to many. innocent palestinians have been killed. frankly the scale of civilian

suffering and the images and videos coming from gaza are devastating as israel pursues its military objectives in gaza. we believe israel must do more to protect innocent civilians . to protect innocent civilians. >> and finally , boris johnson is >> and finally, boris johnson is expected to admit that he made mistakes during the pandemic when he appears before the covid inquiry next week. however, the former pm is expected to argue that he got the big decisions right , that he got the big decisions right, helping to that he got the big decisions right , helping to save that he got the big decisions right, helping to save tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives by preventing the nhs from being overwhelmed. some of his senior staff have already given evidence as they've been criticising him for indecision and poor leadership . this is gb and poor leadership. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. now let's get straight back to . neil straight back to. neil >> santa is making his list

about now checking it twice , about now checking it twice, finding out who's naughty or nice . sad to say, those lists nice. sad to say, those lists are already being compiled not by mr claus or esquire, but by those in assumed positions of power. a glance across the water at ireland makes plain the putting together of the naughty list is well underway. legislation in hustled through parliament. there in the aftermath of riots after the stabbing of children and their teacher outside their school gifts. authorities astonishing new powers of surveillance of the irish people with a view to seeing who's naughty or nice . seeing who's naughty or nice. but the genesis of the theft of freedom predates any recent unrest . back freedom predates any recent unrest. back in freedom predates any recent unrest . back in 2022, politician unrest. back in 2022, politician pauune unrest. back in 2022, politician pauline o'reilly talked openly about how she and her colleagues were working to shorten the leash. quote, that's exactly what we are doing here, she said . we are restricting freedom, but we're doing it for the common good. the common good for the common good, like no other state cover for theft of your rights. santa sees you when you're sleeping. he when you're sleeping. he knows when you're sleeping. he knows when you're knows when you're awake. he knows when you've good. be

you've been bad or good. so be good goodness sake , santa. good for goodness sake, santa. surveillance the least of it. surveillance is the least of it. more and more , it's clear an more and more, it's clear an unholy alliance of governments, banks, big tech and intelligence agencies is making a reality of round the clock surveillance of citizens . they'll know what citizens. they'll know what you've been reading. they'll know you've said. know all that you've said. they'll decide you've been they'll decide if you've been bad good and they'll put the bad or good and they'll put the mockers on your bank account and generally your life generally make your life unliveable. you in unliveable. or throw you in jail. you tour of line jail. if you book a tour of line a in another life, what feels like hundred years ago like a hundred years ago was part a team british part of a team at british telecom taking care of content on the company's website. but back the mid 1990s it was back in the mid 1990s it was only exist only the third website to exist in britain . i found the internet in britain. i found the internet even more confusing then than i do now . and among a slew of do now. and among a slew of questions i had was how and why everything was free. free software , free access. millions software, free access. millions of pages of information about anything and everything . i anything and everything. i couldn't out why. something couldn't work out why. something so was free to all so amazing was free to all comers as cui bono, you might say . more recently, i realised say. more recently, i realised it was all about baiting a trap. all that convenience. so much

for nothing in return forjust for nothing in return for just handing over more and more personal data to persons unknown . and here are. flies stuck . and here we are. flies stuck on one big web with spiders that know more about us than we know about ourselves is genius. really. but then it was the idea of the military . for the of the us military. for the longest the internet was longest time the internet was a place of anonymity. no names, no pack drills. now that anonymity has been identified by the powers that be as the final obstacle standing in the way of total control. which reminds me of else i learned at of something else i learned at bt in the early days of the telephone in the us, an undertaker called almon brown strowger was convinced he was losing business to a rival undertaker whose wife was the operator at the local telephone exchange. whenever anyone called looking for an undertaker , she looking for an undertaker, she always connected them to her husband's business. and so strowger invented an automatic exchange that took human operators out of the loop. now, the connections were made by an unthinking machine and no human could watch or interfere . now,

could watch or interfere. now, 140 odd years later, it seems to me the authorities would prefer they could step in again. see who's talking to who. what they're saying, whether it's right, think or wrong, think. the new legislation in ireland gives the state unprecedented power to pry into what people are reading, writing and saying online. if a policeman wants to see what an irish man or woman has been looking at online reading online, he can demand access to mobile phones, computers , tablets, whatever. computers, tablets, whatever. with that kit is protected by a pin . the policeman is empowered pin. the policeman is empowered to demand it. failure to comply could lead to prosecution. and a yearin could lead to prosecution. and a year in jail. stop and think about that. no more privacy and flunkies of the state deciding in advance of any evidence of wrongdoing . whether you or i are wrongdoing. whether you or i are likely suspects, a judge decides if you seem likely to circulate a document , a if you seem likely to circulate a document, a meme, a link , and a document, a meme, a link, and so makes a judgement about whether a hate crime might be committed in the future. here we have nothing less than the advent of thoughtcrime or even

pre—crime as it was imagined in the sci fi movie minority report. santa checks. if you've been bad in the past. now we face future mermaids face a future where mermaids organs of the state can decide arbitrarily. if you might be bad in the future. in ireland , as in the future. in ireland, as elsewhere, the necessary legislation for the prosecution of so—called hate speech has beenin of so—called hate speech has been in place for decades, and in cases where such has been appued in cases where such has been applied being shown to work perfectly well. the new legislation is only about surveillance, the right to pry and to punish in advance . and it and to punish in advance. and it goes without saying this will hardly be limited to ireland . if hardly be limited to ireland. if the past three years have taught us anything, it's that small, well regulated populations are used as test beds for the next great idea from the authoritarian us. i'm thinking about how israel sees australians and new zealanders , australians and new zealanders, for example, were made the lab rats of the most draconian steps taken during the covid debacle . taken during the covid debacle. what is seen to empower the state in ireland will surely spread like a virus that really

does put everyone at risk. populations in societies where state reach is already powerful, what they call strong state capacity. as in israel , capacity. as in israel, australia and new zealand, to name but 3rd may be regarded as pre—programmed to trust authority more than they ever should. i say the meek accept by too many of restrictions and measures that ought to put the fear of god into every freedom loving human being is manifesting now as something akin to stockholm syndrome , akin to stockholm syndrome, where captives sympathise with and so take the side of their captors in dependent us journalist whitney webb talked this week about her recent research into the coming together the marrying in hell of us government, big banks and intelligence agencies with plans to cope with the latest thing we're being prepped to fear, which is cyber attack. the world economic forum is already talking openly about and actually predicting a catastrophic cyber attack in 20 2425. this is the same lot that

predicts, along with bill gates, world health organisation, imminent pandemics, worse than covid. ask yourself how it is these unelected, unaccountable bureaucrat s know all this is coming and when it will arrive. ask yourself if perhaps they know it's coming because it's they like santas evil twin who will deliver it to our doors under cover of night. webb has pointed out, and she's hardly alone , that a catastrophic alone, that a catastrophic financial crash must lie in our future. trillions upon trillions of dollars pounds and euros of debt are suspended over all our heads and must surely collapse . heads and must surely collapse. s how to subtract all the money from every private citizen in the world and still have all the fabulously rich left over . fabulously rich left over. according to webb, the authorities in the us and throughout the world cannot allow the blame for all the attendant harm to arrive at the doors of wall street and the rest of the financial institutions . they saw the institutions. they saw the global anger narrowly diverted back in 2008, when the banks were gifted hundreds of billions of taxpayers money and have

since moved heaven and earth to make sure that when it happens again it will happen again, again and it will happen again, banks governments aren't banks and governments aren't left can. what left carrying the can. what better cover.7 what better way to shift the blame than a global cyber attack that shuts down those banks energy grids, closes the hospitals and disables the emergency services , disables all emergency services, disables all that's been made dependent upon the internet. and if that cyber attack can be blamed on, well, let's wonder who that might be. russia, china, north korea , russia, china, north korea, iran, any of those will do for a scapegoat . and with the scapegoat. and with the populations of the world quaking in fear, in the face of chaos and shivering and hungry, what better time for centralised agencies , a cabal of banks, ngos agencies, a cabal of banks, ngos , ceos and compliant politicians and the rest to step in with the solutions in the us , the patriot solutions in the us, the patriot act was rushed through just 45 days after 9/11 under the guise of making us all safer in the face of terrorism. it gave the us government the right to monitor phone calls and email exchange and collect banking and

credit records and to track the activity of americans on the net. in britain, the online safety bill has handed big tech the power to decide what might be misinformation, disinformation or mal information being true, things that the authorities don't want you to know. big brother watch described it as a frankenstein's monster of a bill that will set free expression and privacy back decades. free expression and privacy back decades . as i've quoted us decades. as i've quoted us president herbert hoover before and will again , every and will again, every collectivist revolution rides in on a trojan horse of emergency . on a trojan horse of emergency. it was the tactic of lenin, hitler and mussolini and emergency became the justification of the subsequent steps. this technique of creating emergency is the greatest achievement that demagoguery attains . what better demagoguery attains. what better opportunity to explain to us how the solution depends upon making the solution depends upon making the internet a fully regulated space safe from anonymous hackers? that the road to utopia is paved with digital ids , that is paved with digital ids, that every person's access to the internet to email, to social media, to their bank accounts, must depend on them. offering up

a digital id that dispenses with their anonymity and their privacy and enables the state to monitor in real time anything and everything a person might read or publish or do online. once the digital ids are accepted by desperate, angry , accepted by desperate, angry, frightened populations, what do you think the state might do next? dec and social credit scores. anyone amazon and microsoft are among the tech giants standing ready to unite with government banks , with government banks, intelligence agencies and entities like the united nations , the world economic forum and the world health organisation . the world health organisation. all of that's my opinion. of course . and you're free to course. and you're free to disagree . disagree. joining me this evening is tom buick, friend of the show. tom, what do you make of my assertion that more people should be worried about what's happening in ireland? >> it's good to be back. merry

christmas to you, neil. any rush legislation , in my view, is legislation, in my view, is folly. i mean, you mentioned the patriot act there, but just listen to your monologue , listen to your monologue, although it's been a while , you although it's been a while, you know, it hasn't lost any of the potency that i've come to hear from you. neil but as ever , you from you. neil but as ever, you take quite a gloomy view of human nature. i think you take a slightly quasi conspiratorial view of the technology and some of the people that might be behind it. that's not to say i don't think there are some real worries about what a surveillance society, whether that's the new laws, draconian laws, in my view, that have come out of the irish republic. but we need to look at this, in my view, as a glass half full and a glass half empty. you know, there's technology in your pocket and my pocket on my wrist that could monitor my health if my daughter not that she's, i hope, listening turns up a little bit late and i'm worried about her. i can track through my phone and her phone where she

is. in other words, you know, as edward snowden said, we are all of us walking around with a spy in pocket in the surveillance. >> these are technologies, though, are adopting though, that you are adopting for your own reasons. and out of choice. what i'm my contention is why when these measures are, for example , being run through for example, being run through the parliament in ireland, why aren't more people utterly aghast and up in arms ? is that aghast and up in arms? is that any government would seek to have the police able to demand the pin to see what you might have been looking at on your phone that you might choose to circulate to somebody else? i mean, what of level of mean, what kind of level of intrusion are people going to finally push back against it? >> well, we have the same huge intrusion. mentioned the intrusion. you mentioned the online. what was the safety bill? it's now an act of parliament. we've had previously the regulatory investigative powers act in this country , powers act in this country, which gives gchq and our intelligence agencies probably more sweeping powers actually,

than the intelligence agencies have in ireland. but your point is about at what point do we push back on this surveillance society ? and i think the answer society? and i think the answer to that is about how do we democratise this digital age? how do we ensure that whether it's the big tech firms, whether it's the big tech firms, whether it's the big tech firms, whether it's the banks , whether it's it's the banks, whether it's elites in our governments around the world, that actually they are subject subjected to our are we are we though , not walking, we are we though, not walking, sleepwalking into situation where we are guilty until we prove ourselves innocent? >> the concept of a zero trust society where the onus is somehow on us, the law abiding tax payers, to demonstrate to the myrmidons of the state that we are going about our private business. >> yeah, well, look , i mean, >> yeah, well, look, i mean, we're both very keen students of social history. you go right back to the magna carta , this back to the magna carta, this idea of, you know , free born idea of, you know, free born people being free from arbitrary

arrest . it seems to me we've arrest. it seems to me we've lost some of these basic liberties, these basic principles that, frankly, our ancestors fought for. the question i come back to is what is the mechanism there for democratising doing this digital age ? how do we ensure that age? how do we ensure that actually these intelligence agencies and others cannot collect huge amounts of data on us without asking for our permission? i think that's one aspect of it. but what i wouldn't want to do is to lose sight of the fact that with 2 billion people on this planet who have no access to any digital technology, bank accounts, for example , or any accounts, for example, or any financial services live on less than a dollar a day . sure. i than a dollar a day. sure. i think of as decamping here and going off to outer mongolia and living in a yurt. i don't see what the alternative is to connecting with this new technology . technology. >> say no to digital ids. that's my number one message after the break, which is upon us now. i'll be joined by dr. jay bhattacharya, professor of medicine, economics and health

research, to talk the research, to talk about the case of versus biden and of missouri versus biden and look at why the first amendment is a powerful idea that shouldn't be going anywhere . our shouldn't be going anywhere. our

you get to cook, you're listening to gb news radio . listening to gb news radio. >> welcome back to neil oliver live. my first guest tonight is dr. jay bhattacharya, joining me from the states to discuss a new documentary by leighton woodhouse and michael shellenberger called the censorship files , which asks how censorship files, which asks how much we would pay for our own freedom. let us take a look at the film moments of real terror at what's going on and the potential for tyranny to see it happening is it's shocking . happening is it's shocking. >> if the supreme court says that the government can coerce pressure to work with tech companies to censor speech, i

don't think that the first amendment has any meaning anymore, especially when you have a crisis situation that you need the first amendment, the so—called counter—disinformation units , have basically become units, have basically become counter dissent units, the powers of the state and silicon valley are merging , hopefully by valley are merging, hopefully by the wonders of technology. >> dr. bhattacharya joins me now. are you there, dr. bhattacharya ? bhattacharya? >> i am, neal. thank you for having me. >> oh, it's good to see you. good to hear your voice as well. you were one of the authors of the of the document that's gone down in legend now is the great barrington declaration. and it advocated well targeted protection vulnerable protection of those vulnerable to rather than the rest of to covid rather than the rest of the measures. when you published it way back when, how did you expect leaked it to be received ? expect leaked it to be received? >> i expected that it would be an honest discussion among pubuc an honest discussion among public health professionals about how better how to better protect vulnerable older people .

protect vulnerable older people. i expected there to be an open schools. i expected there to be an acknowledgement that what we had been doing, the lockdowns, had been doing, the lockdowns, had been doing, the lockdowns, had been tremendously damaging. instead neil, what we got was censorship , smearing, censorship, smearing, suppression . it was really and suppression. it was really and absolute a disgusting attack, a propaganda attack on the great barrington declaration and its authors . authors. >> and after all, i think i'm right in saying it ended up with tens of thousands, not just thousands, but tens of thousands of names associated with it. nobel , all sorts of nobel laureates, all sorts of eminent people , all had put eminent people, all had put their names to it. eminent people, all had put their names to it . and as you their names to it. and as you say, this this campaign of ridiculing silencing and the ridiculing and silencing and the rest. but you are fighting back. can you tell us a little bit about how your your finally pushing back . pushing back. >> yes, tens of thousands of doctors signed it. the attack on it. i think it really in reality was because tens of thousands of doctors, including nobel prize

winners, signed it. we had shattered the illusion that there was a consensus in favour of lockdowns . the what happened of lockdowns. the what happened afterwards was essentially a campaign to smear us and make sure the public never heard of us.the sure the public never heard of us. the head of the national institute of health wrote an email to tony fauci calling us fringe calling for fringe figures and calling for a devastating of us. what devastating takedown of us. what we found later on, a about a year later , i was contacted by year later, i was contacted by the missouri and louisiana attorney general's office. they had the idea that the biden administration was coordinating some of the censorship efforts in this lawsuit against the biden administration. this missouri versus biden case. we had the right to read the government emails to social media companies and to depose people like tony fauci. and what we found was that the idea that we found was that the idea that we were being censored was not a conspiracy theory, but was actually happening. in fact, what the government essentially was saying was telling the social media companies that if you don't censor these people

and these ideas, you know , ideas and these ideas, you know, ideas that were true, things like the vaccine doesn't stop transmission , that it has some transmission, that it has some side effects that the lockdowns are harmful. all of these like bafic are harmful. all of these like basic facts, scientific facts the government found inconvenient. and so they what they did was they said to the social media companies , if you social media companies, if you don't censor these people and these going to go these ideas, we are going to go after with regulatory after you with regulatory action. threatened the action. they threatened the business social media business of the social media companies. absolutely was companies. it absolutely was a violation of our free speech rights. i was put on a blacklist at twitter the day i joined in august 2021. simply for the crime of posting the link to the great barrington declaration. >> dr. bhattacharya , bear with >> dr. bhattacharya, bear with me while i bring in my guest in the studio, tom, that is quite some testimony , isn't it? some testimony, isn't it? >> it's absolutely outrageous that there are eminent scientists and academics that have been put on blacklists and that should never happen. but we've seen it, haven't we, in terms of our own government here with the cabinet office trawling twitter accounts just in

general, looking for anyone that doesn't go along with, if you like, the government's narrative, not just on the vaccines, but on a whole range of issues. and they've been de—platformed from conferences where government ministers and others are appearing. so so much for free speech. and i think your guests there , i mean, dr. your guests there, i mean, dr. bhattacharya indeed, so much for free speech. >> what was your worldview or has your worldview been changed by what you saw and what you experience just over the last few years ? few years? >> i mean, i'm a naturalised us citizen. i had had the idea of the united states as the civic religion of the united states is free speech. i have been absolutely stunned . and neil, absolutely stunned. and neil, it's not simply just that it happenedin it's not simply just that it happened in the past when i've testified in front of congress . testified in front of congress. what i've found is that major elements of the democratic party view this as a social good to

keep the censorship apparatus in place . i mean, i can understand place. i mean, i can understand that my opinions about the pandemic were controversial, but science often involves that kind of controversy. and certainly when you're talking about some of the most consequential decisions that governments have ever made in my lifetime regarding public health policy, we needed a debate. we needed an open discussion. the government did the public a disservice by not allowing that debate. i mean , i believe very firmly that the science was on my side during the pandemic, that closing schools was damaging, didn't do much for protecting anybody, that we should have protected vulnerable older people better. i think that would have won i think that we would have won that but think that that debate. but i think that that debate. but i think that that fundamental reason that is the fundamental reason why censorship effort was why the censorship effort was needed because the needed was because the government would have lost that debate had it been allowed to take place in open in open air. instead, they needed to use these underhanded methods to make sure that people didn't hear about me, or if they did, they would hear about me or sunetra gupta martin

sunetra gupta or martin kulldorff or other others the kulldorff or other others of the tens thousands people, tens of thousands of people, scientists great scientists who signed the great barrington declaration if we barrington declaration as if we were figures rather were a fringe figures rather than, you know, eminent scientists. do you think it scientists. why do you think it happened when it did? >> you know, i mean , since time >> you know, i mean, since time immemorial , you know, immemorial, you know, emergencies have have have befallen societies and governments have acted and so on and so on and scientists and other experts and people from many fields have have offered their opinion why, in response to this particular event, what did the suddenly see the glove, the mask came off and we were confronted with what was perhaps the reality of government all along . along. >> i mean, i think a relatively small group of scientists has somehow convinced the public, and particularly the politicians, that if they weren't adhered to, listen to that, the public would be would be would be harmed, that the

millions of people would die. and i think as a result of the pandemic, the problem was that what this group of scientists did not actually have a consensus behind them, but now, once politicians became convinced that these scientists were were were were on to something that that you had to impose these extraordinary measures. well, how do you keep a lockdown in place? how do you keep, you know, a family from sending their kids to school? how do you keep tell people that they they should it's good for society that they lose their jobs or that they stay isolated or can't visit their their or they can't visit their their mother in a nursing home or or your father while he's dying, that you can't hold a funeral. the only way you do that is by convincing them that every scientist agrees that there's a consensus behind this and really is for the social good. and so they needed the censorship apparatus to destroy the possibility that possibility for the public to learn that there were scientists, eminent scientists, that disagreed with those relatively small group of

scientists that control government policy . government policy. >> astonishing testimony. dr. bhattacharya , i've run out of bhattacharya, i've run out of time, i'm afraid, but i hope we'll be able to pick up and continue with this conversation in another opportunity. thank continue with this conversation in very�*ther opportunity. thank continue with this conversation in very much.)portunity. thank continue with this conversation in very much. so rtunity. thank continue with this conversation in very much. so rturthisthank you very much. so far this evening, another break then after which i'll be joined by the and creator of the the director and creator of the censorship files, michael shellenberger. don't go anywhere

radio. >> welcome back to neil oliver live we were just discussing the film, the censorship files, and my next guest is the man who wrote, directed and produced the documentary along with leighton woodhouse, michael shellenberger , twitter files, journalist and founder of public, joins me to discuss the international censorship industry complex. good evening, michael . thank you good evening, michael. thank you for joining us. >> it's forjoining us. >> it's good to finally be able

to meet with you and talk with you. >> oh, me too. the feeling's mutual now, michael. the first amendment to the american constitution . the amendment constitution. the amendment about free speech. is it just words on a piece of paper or doesit words on a piece of paper or does it still mean something ? does it still mean something? >> well, that is the maybe the most important question that should be asked right now. you know , our founding fathers, the know, our founding fathers, the people that created the united states of america, they wanted to do things differently than it had been done in europe. we did not the king to decide what not want the king to decide what we be allowed to say or we would be allowed to say or not wanted speech to not say. we wanted speech to come before our government in a certain way. and that's why i became the first amendment of the constitution. fine. but the people that created the united states of america, they knew that first amendment only that the first amendment only worked long as the american worked so long as the american people in it. people really believed in it. and one of the things and that's one of the things that's been challenged. we saw the democrats who the percentage of democrats who want the government to be involved in censoring false information online rise from 40%

to 70% between 2018 and 2023. so it's very scary now. now the switch , of course, is that many switch, of course, is that many conservatives, because they've been censored, are now more supportive of free speech. so we're in a very strange situation, which you've talked a lot about, but i think the potential here is for free speech to have support from the political right in the united states and to gain support from a minority of people on the left who still believe in free speech, which you might say classical liberal types like myself and so but yeah, that's the test. and that's obviously why we want the documentary. there's a big supreme court case in states that's in the united states that's being we testify in front being heard. we testify in front of congress. there's of our of congress. there's all of our journalism. but ultimately, it's just you said, that people of just as you said, that people of the states believe the united states must believe in have in free speech for us to have free speech protections . free speech protections. >> now, you talk in the trailer and i played the trailer earlier in the show. you talk about moment of real terror in the face of the tyranny. you see being assembled. and that's

strong language . and i feel your strong language. and i feel your pain . um, strong language. and i feel your pain. um, talk me down strong language. and i feel your pain . um, talk me down off the pain. um, talk me down off the roof, if you will give me reasons to, you know, to have some kind of confidence of being able to push this terror away . able to push this terror away. >> well, i think the strongest reason to have hope is that we can see so many people around the world want to come to live in britain. they want to come to live in the united states. they want to come to live in free countries. and people would rather have freedom than not freedom . now, i think there's freedom. now, i think there's some percentage of people on the left in the united states and in other western countries, including britain and europe, that were temporarily willing to sacrifice some of those freedoms in the case of a pandemic. that's often the instinct that people have during other crises. we think it's the wrong instinct that in a crisis you need free speech to be able to understand what to do. and that's the conversation you just had with

with stanford professor jay bhattacharya free bhattacharya that we need free speech in order to solve crises . speech in order to solve crises. but the elites use fear to get people to give up these fundamental freedoms . people to give up these fundamental freedoms. i think we have to slow people down a bit. there's this distinction that the famous psychologist daniel kahneman talks about between fast thinking and slow thinking . fast thinking and slow thinking. when people think about it, it would rather have freedom. they would rather have freedom. they would rather have speech, would rather have free speech, free expression . they would free expression. they would rather able to their rather be able to speak their mind. why so many people mind. that's why so many people are to come to the united are trying to come to the united states and to get into europe from not from countries that do not respect those fundamental freedoms. and i think that ultimately we have ultimately is what we have to remind of. have to remind people of. we have to remind people of. we have to remind people of. we have to remind people that this is an existential question, an existential question, an existential liberal, existential moment for liberal, all democratic civilisations in the west, and that it starts with a defence of free speech. >> now, you tweeted recently , >> now, you tweeted recently, this week, i think you said today we have ripped back the veil of the censorship industrial complex and are on the cusp of defunding and

dismantling it. now that's bold and heartening language , age are and heartening language, age are you are you as confident as that that we can do enough to save our traditional freedom of speech , which . i do? speech, which. i do? >> i actually feel more optimistic than i have in the year since we've discussed offered that mil arbitrary intelligence and other security organisations in the united states and other five eyes nations, including britain, first and foremost in britain, because of our special relationship , i feel much more relationship, i feel much more optimistic now than i did when we first discovered this. i think that the high point of the censorship industrial complex is power was in april of 2022 when the us department of homeland security announced a disinformation governance board, which was rightly criticised as orwellian , both in name and in

orwellian, both in name and in purpose. and there was an enormous backlash by the public against that. the twitter files emerged eight months later and we're now a year since that point. and i think that i think that we see people advocating censorship on the defensive . i censorship on the defensive. i just tweeted earlier this morning that one of the people that testified , the lead witness that testified, the lead witness for the democrats who testified on thursday denied in her testimony that she had called government censorship a conspiracy theory , even though conspiracy theory, even though she had done so just an hour earlier in her testimony. she had done so just an hour earlier in her testimony . and i earlier in her testimony. and i think that's testament to the fact that both people are struggling to defend censorship when confronted publicly on it, and also that they are now starting to even deny by their own claims that it had just been a one of our conspiracy theories . of course, i don't need to tell you . and many of your tell you. and many of your listeners, but there was no

theorising. we were discovering evidence of a conspiracy kc to secretly censor people. and we believe break the first amendment of our constitution , amendment of our constitution, break the not just any law , but break the not just any law, but arguably the most important law in the country, the most important law in the country. >> tom buick do you it seems to me that the whole problem is expose and at least now, whether there are grounds for optimism, whether we can dismantle it, be right to say , wouldn't it, that right to say, wouldn't it, that we can see that the censorship that was dismissed as conspiracy theory was absolutely the case? >> absolutely. and i think most of the population know that we live in a mass surveillance society. and i think they take some time steps to ensure , some time steps to ensure, whether it's writing via email or whatever they do, they they look to try and protect their privacy. but i think what michael is talking about there in terms of course, we don't have a first amendment right here in the united kingdom , but here in the united kingdom, but nehhenit here in the united kingdom, but neither, it seems to me, do we have as yet the mechanism

actually to democratise freedom of speech and ensure that there are limits actually to the powers that the state can take to surveil us? it seems to me that all the legislation goes one way. it's always through emergency type legislation taking further and further liberties away from us. and, you know, i was looking at the democracy report, the latest one, neal, just earlier, ten years ago, the world's population, less than half the world's population, were living in authoritarian states. that's now gone up to 70. so you know, more and more of the world's population are being led by autocrats and tyrannical leaders. and i wonder to what extent we in the west are fuelling that surge because of the activities of our own governments . governments. >> michael, while i still have you, my central concern in many respects is do you think enough people care? do enough of us proper pay attention to the absolute essential nature of the

freedom to speak ? freedom to speak? >> well, i think the answer is that we haven't been paying attention to the importance of that. i was asleep to the threat , but i think many of us were. i think many of us were the asleep to the threat of tyranny and that covid really woke us up to that covid really woke us up to that threat. i was also alive to that threat. i was also alive to that threat. i was also alive to that threat around my work on climate change, which has also been used for advancing creeping authoritarianism and even totalitarianism . um, i think totalitarianism. um, i think you've done such important work of communicating this threat to people and explaining it to them. and i think the answer is that things have been changing and people are when they i think this is the key. when you stop to think about your fundamental freedoms , most people don't want freedoms, most people don't want to we take it for to give them up. we take it for granted that have the right granted that we have the right not to just say what we believe, but also to hear what other people believe, because of course, expression is course, freedom of expression is actually it's not actually goes two ways. it's not just that i want to speak my

views , i want that, but i also views, i want that, but i also want to hear your views. and i think we need to come back to basics to some extent to reaffirm these freedoms . i will basics to some extent to reafi rm these freedoms . i will basics to some extent to reafi washese freedoms . i will basics to some extent to reafi was in;e freedoms. i will basics to some extent to reafi was in washington. i will basics to some extent to reafi was in washington . i will basics to some extent to reafi was in washington . i met say i was in washington. i met with a number of members of congress. met with a congress. yes. i met with a senator over the question of how to prevent government bureaucrats from behaving like to libertarians and attempting to libertarians and attempting to censor us is very much alive in congress. there is legislation that would prevent government officials from demanding censorship from social media platforms. we hope for a win in the supreme court next yean win in the supreme court next year, but we shouldn't rely on that. and i also will just add, we need a grassroots movement for this. this is why we do believe and this is why i wanted to speak with you, we think that our relationship between the united states and britain is particularly important in affirming movement for affirming a common movement for free speech. and that's why some of our allies are in of our best allies are in britain . it's why we published britain. it's why we published a free speech manifesto called the westminster declaration, because

we met in westminster area of london and it was an internationally signed document, including signed by john cleese and silkie carlo and ben delo and silkie carlo and ben delo and other winston marshall and other people that were important british leaders for free speech. and we have americans as well . and we have americans as well. we think our movement is growing, but we have to keep keep the fight just running short on time. >> michael but honestly so reassuring to listen to you and actually against my expectations. you have lifted my spirits . you have actually been spirits. you have actually been able see the things that give able to see the things that give me cause for give me cause for optimism. thank you much. optimism. so thank you so much. michael shellenberger. another break, the break, after which the headmaster of a prep school in sussex will tell us why he has introduced a new member of staff to the classroom. this one's a robot. don't go anywhere .

well come back. my final guest tonight is the headmaster of cottesmore school, a boarding prep in west sussex, which has worked with an artificial intelligence developer to create a robot to assist in every conceivable way. the robot is called abigail bailey and has been a total hit with the school, apparently. and tom rogers joins me now. hi, tom. hi. was this your idea ? was this hi. was this your idea? was this your call with other people's input as well? >> but yes , it was it was my >> but yes, it was it was my idea . idea. >> why? why in a school with all of that, with all of that , you of that, with all of that, you know, all those resources, why do you need. why did you perceive a need for artificial intelligence? >> well, just before i say the answer to that question, when we've been talking to a lot of academics and a lot of people who've advised us and actually abigail bailey is a very humanised name and, you know, the various other things, giving

it the title that it has. and you can hear that i'm saying it rather than her. and so we deploy around it and we we've we've created a logo for it. and so it's now more like a siri or an alexa , and it's called abby. now >> but presence does that entity have in the school? can they can the kids see it? can you interact with it in that one on one way? so it's more of a joint head. >> it's more of a co—pilot and i use it for strategic leadership help. you know, my deputy head, you know, he works very long hours, but very often, maybe at 9:30 in the evening, i'll be wanting some strategic help on something. and i can't call upon him. i can, but it would be really bad for me to call upon him. and so what i do is i clarify my own thoughts using this, using this bot . this, using this bot. >> education is your your bread and butter. tom, what do you how

do you respond to this evolution of the educational model? >> first of it's obviously very zeitgeist that you managed to establish the correct pronoun for this chat bot , but in it. so for this chat bot, but in it. so look , i think in terms of the look, i think in terms of the benefits of artificial intelligence, it's what i like to call it actually augmented intelligence. it's because it clearly is a great tool. i mean, i've used it in my day job, organisation, everything from you write lesson plans and you can write lesson plans and you can write lesson plans and you can write job descriptions or rather you get chat. gpt, which is only launched a year ago, by the way, it has 180 million subscribers members already chat. gpt wow. it's the biggest take up ever of an onune biggest take up ever of an online system . so of course this online system. so of course this so—called generative ai, these huge language models, they're very different from google, which just spews out a load of facts . so from that point of facts. so from that point of view of course it's going to augment the educational process. i think the challenge in terms of where the education sector is right now is about 60% of

educators think this is the best thing since sliced bread . about thing since sliced bread. about 40% say this is going to potentially put teachers out of work . this is going to automate work. this is going to automate the whole business or worse still, plagiarism and cheating will be rife. >> how do how the school >> how do how does the school experience this, this, this presence? what do they actually we know of it . we know of it. >> so, abby is only one of the ais that we use . so we have ais that we use. so we have other ais as well . and so what other ais as well. and so what one can do is create , let's say one can do is create, let's say a richard the third bot or a plato bot or a socrates bot and you can use those to deliver the programs that you want to deliver. >> so can can the pupils interact with the so entity? >> so we are more interested in the conversation at the moment. that's, that's where we sit. and so the adults , an adult facing so the adults, an adult facing ai is much more interesting to us. however, we have with a lot of supervision an we have had

these bots in the classroom and it's been completely brilliant. it's so it's a genius piece of kit and i would thoroughly recommend people using it. i think the problem is we need to be careful of gdpr . as be careful of gdpr. as i listened to you before, gdpr and, you know, safeguard thing. and so at the moment i'm more interested in the adult facing ai, and i think this is this is where we are. >> is your schools experience unique or is the same project elsewhere? >> i think a lot of schools, i think we have been leading the fray, as it were . but i think fray, as it were. but i think there are a lot of schools that are using ai. yeah, absolutely . are using ai. yeah, absolutely. and for us, it's been a case of wanting to use as our sort of enthusiasm to help everybody , to enthusiasm to help everybody, to help state school teachers. i'm a member of a group of state school teachers and to help

everyone dodi to benefit from this. and just in case it doesn't, in case we run out of time, um, i wanted to just say the whole point of this generative ai enthusiasm is that want to be able to tell everybody , i'm going to have to everybody, i'm going to have to jump everybody, i'm going to have to jump in, just for want of time. >> sorry, but thank you so much to my panellist tom buick and to all my guests this evening. and to you, tom. i'm sorry we ran out of time. it's a saturday out of time. now it's a saturday five. before that, your five. but before that, your latest weather from early look . latest weather from early look. >> things are heating >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers spot answers of up. boxt boilers spot answers of weather on gb news is . hello weather on gb news is. hello >> welcome to your latest gb news weather. i'm ellie glaser. it was a very cold and frosty start for many of us this morning and there's been quite a few wintry showers across western coasts. these are brought about by occlusion brought about by some occlusion features across western features across parts of western scotland, england into scotland, northwest england into wales southwest england to wales and southwest england to quite a bit of snowfall across parts of northwest with parts of northwest england with an snow warning place.

an amber snow warning in place. some becoming impassable some roads becoming impassable this afternoon, but that snow will gradually start to ease into this evening. elsewhere, though, further south, those showers continue to push in from the turning across the west, turning to snow across parts wales and the pennines parts of wales and the pennines as well, where we could see up to ten centimetres through sunday another chilly sunday morning. another chilly night the uk, perhaps night across the uk, but perhaps just milder across the just a touch milder across the very south. milder very far south. so a milder start across the south, but a much cloudier and showery picture. two showers to picture. two showers continue to push from the west. and with push in from the west. and with those temperatures, perhaps those cold temperatures, perhaps bringing some icy stretches through sunday morning for scotland , though, it will be scotland, though, it will be a much drier and brighter day. plenty of sunshine and blue sky around into the afternoon, but still and cold still feeling cool and cold despite sunshine, one despite that sunshine, minus one in some places further south. and milder picture, but a little bit windier, too, with winds coming up from the southwest. and starts a wet picture and monday starts a wet picture for many hill snow across for many with hill snow across parts of wales into the south of the well. that the pennines. as well. but that will clear its way will eventually clear its way south as we go south and eastwards as we go through the day on monday, further across scotland, further north across scotland, northern

further north across scotland, northerrplenty of sunshine picture, plenty of sunshine around, but that rain and cloud slowly clearing way south slowly clearing its way south and eastwards through monday, leaving brighter but leaving a drier and brighter but colder on tuesday colder day for many on tuesday and wednesday , a brighter and wednesday, a brighter outlook with boxt solar or sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> it's saturday night and this is the saturday five. i'm darren grimes , along with elliot care, grimes, along with elliot care, chloe dobbs, benjamin butterworth and emma webb. tonight on the show , king tonight on the show, king charles is making a big mistake by making himself the poster boy of net zero. >> uk taxpayers have given global quangos £85 billion. are they getting their money's worth? >> it's time to scrap the nhs model. even labour are finally realising it. harry and meghan need to stop talking double dutch and name the royal racists

themselves . themselves. >> the london borough is flip flopping over hanukkah shows how morally perverse we have become. >> it's 7 pm. and this is the. saturday five. welcome to the saturday five, baby, it's cold outside, but it's about to warm up in here as we treat you to an hour of very heated debate. i'm delighted to say i'm joined by three new faces tonight, the brilliant head of campaigns at the taxpayers alliance, elliot kay. fantastic political commentator chloe dobbs, and she's director of the common sense society. so we might finally get some rational discussion around here. welcome. emma webb now, with all these new faces , what you really these new faces, what you really need alongside you is a wise old head full of sage wisdom and helpful advice. but instead, as always, i'm joined by the wokeist man in britain, benjamin

butterworth. this could