can. author alex epstein to talk about the president of cop20 88, saying there is no science behind demands for a phase out of fossil fuels and that it would, quote, take the world back into caves. i'll then be joined by the chairman of third generation environmentalism , tom generation environmentalism, tom burke, who says we need to act now to avoid a climate catastrophe . and finally, i'll catastrophe. and finally, i'll be talking to a group of amateur archaeologists who came across a 15th century tudor palace in northampton shire after a five year search. amazing stuff . all year search. amazing stuff. all of that and lots of chat with my panel list and friend ingrid tarrant. but first, an update on the headlines with sophia wenzler . wenzler. >> thank you, neil. i'm sophia wenzler in the newsroom. a 16 year old boy has been charged with the murder of leon gordon, who was shot dead in east london on tuesday evening. the boy has

also been charged with attempted murder of a 20 year old man and a 16 year old boy. he was also charged with possession of a firearm and possession with intent to supply class a drugs. he will appear at barkingside magistrates court on monday. he will appear at barkingside magistrates court on monday . met magistrates court on monday. met police have arrested two protesters at a pro—palestine march in london today. thousands of people gathered to call for a ceasefire in gaza. the met police arrested a man on suspicion of a racially aggravated public order offence for allegedly displaying a placard compared israel to nazi germany . a second man was germany. a second man was arrested for carrying an offensive placard . un officials offensive placard. un officials say there's enough food aid available in egypt and jordan to reach a million people in gaza amid fears of humanitarian aid collapsing under a new system. a suppues collapsing under a new system. a supplies would come to the kerem shalom crossing on the border between israel, gaza and egypt for the first time. the un says trucks need to be allowed to

enter gaza directly to alleviate any increasing , desperate any increasing, desperate situation in the enclave . israel situation in the enclave. israel has so far rebuffed pleas from the united nations to access the crossing. deputy executive director of the world food programme , carl skow, says programme, carl skow, says operation is critical. >> we need kerem shalom to open . >> we need kerem shalom to open. you know, yesterday i think we were trying to use kerem shalom for the first time for verification , but not for entry. verification, but not for entry. we need that also so that we can have more order around the un convoys coming in and to some degree separate them from from the rest of the aid that is flowing in through rafah . and of flowing in through rafah. and of course we need a humanitarian ceasefire so that there is the space and the operation environment inside to deliver to all those that need it. and in a controlled and orderly way . controlled and orderly way. >> the lib dems are calling for an investigation to see whether the prime minister breached the ministerial code for failing to declare £100 million payment to

rwanda . it was sent to kigali in rwanda. it was sent to kigali in april on top of the 140 million already paid . that brings the already paid. that brings the total to 240 million. writing in the daily telegraph former immigration minister robert jenrick has warned rishi sunak to vanderbilt doesn't go far enough.the to vanderbilt doesn't go far enough. the times reports the rwanda legislation has been given only a 50% at best, chance of success getting flights off the ground next year. members of multiple unions met today to argue against anti—strike laws after 18 months of industrial action. hundreds of thousands of workers have taken action over pay workers have taken action over pay and conditions. it's as regulations to ensure minimum levels of service came into force yesterday. this is the first time in 40 years the tuc assembled a special national conference. tuc general secretary paul nowak says the strike act is unfit for modern day workers going on strike is a bafic day workers going on strike is a basic protection that working people have relied on for generations.

>> but today we've got a tory government that that feels threatened by that basic protection threat and by the organised working class threatened by workers having the temerity to stand up and their response is reach out for that old thatcherite playbook, slap more restrictions on unions and bully working people into keeping quiet . keeping quiet. >> court documents reveal the late queen wanted protection for the duke and duchess of sussex after they abstained from royal dufies. after they abstained from royal duties . an extract from a letter duties. an extract from a letter written by the late queen's private secretary, sir edward young states it is imperative that the family continues to be provided with effective security . in a statement, prince harry said he feared for his family's safety and felt forced to leave the uk . he is suing associated the uk. he is suing associated newspapers limited over an article about his legal challenge against the home office following a decision to change his security arrangements and a rare white alligator has

been born for the first time in captivity . the female reptile is captivity. the female reptile is one of only seven leucistic alligator in the world, according to officials at the theme park in florida, where she was born. they are the rarest genetic variation in the american alligator differing from albinos, which have pink eyes and a complete loss of pigment . this is gb news across pigment. this is gb news across the uk on tv , in your car, on the uk on tv, in your car, on your digital radio, and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now it's back to . news now it's back to. neil >> i received this letter this week from a viewer in the netherlands about her experience of the past three years and how much she came to count on independent media online. quote, it's been a strange , scary, but it's been a strange, scary, but also wondrous journey for me, she wrote. and at times i really felt like i was losing my marbles . finding those voices marbles. finding those voices onune marbles. finding those voices online has helped me immensely

in keeping myself grounded just by knowing i wasn't the only one seeing what i thought i was seeing. and oddly enough, it was finding those voices that made me give myself permission to trust intuition . looking trust my intuition. looking back, wonder why and how back, i wonder why and how i ever became that person that doubted their own judgement. trusting myself made me refuse the and not participate in the vax and not participate in the vax and not participate in the qr code for admission foolery. i'm so grateful i did and relieved. i'll never have to look back and feel ashamed for not sticking to my principles. amen to all that sister with those words in mind, i want to start by offering some early christmas cheer. and if not, cheer exactly encouragement to those who've spent years putting up with the dog's abuse for standing in the face of ruthless and relentless state propaganda and relentless state propaganda and lies and propaganda and lies that are still pushed. now, if i could take my most sincere love and admiration and put it in a big red box tied with a golden bow, it would go first and foremost to all those who found their voices and spoke . i raise

their voices and spoke. i raise their voices and spoke. i raise the next of several glass eyes to those who said no to the covid jabs products pushed by the unholy alliance of governments and big pharma and cheered on by supine media, flat on its face and crawling in hope of reward. we were right at every one of us who started with a simple no thank you towards those jabs. and then in the face of non—stop bullying, ridicule , of non—stop bullying, ridicule, hatred, exclusion from here, there and everywhere, inability to travel and finally loss of employment and kept going with our efforts to keep safe ourselves and infinitely more important, our children . to all important, our children. to all those, i say we were right and that that simple knowledge must be its own reward, for there will be no other on account of the fact that no good deed ever goes unpunished. we were right. you were right. a war was waged against you. it's still being waged. but you outnumbered and embattled. have won that war in every way that matters . every way that matters. regardless of what might happen next. standing ground and holding firm when every evil

trick in the book was pulled eagerly aided and abetted by that mainstream media, quote, it's time to punish britain's 5 million vaccine refuseniks . million vaccine refuseniks. remember that one.7 and million vaccine refuseniks. remember that one? and countless comments online calling for the unjabbed to be held down in the street and dealt with, refused medical care, shrugging all that off and keeping on was a damn tough bullet to chew. but you did it. and you were right. we are right. by now, the astrazeneca offering pumped into countless millions of arms, has been withdrawn and labelled defective . and the state of defective. and the state of texas is suing pfizer. imagine that texas is one of only two us states with a population in excess of 30 million. the size of a medium country and the state prosecutor there is taking pfizer to court, alleging amongst much else that their jab pushed into billions more arms around the world was , get this, around the world was, get this, just 0.85% effective against covid, less than 1, for god's sake . and that's without getting

sake. and that's without getting into the deaths and harms undeniably resultant from all those products marketed and pushed as vaccines . pfizer now pushed as vaccines. pfizer now accused of misleading the people long ago , admitted they didn't long ago, admitted they didn't test to see if their product would stop the passing of covid from person to person because they weren't asked to. and yet safe and effective was the mantra of all mantras . take this mantra of all mantras. take this now or you'll be murdering granny. safe and effective . a granny. safe and effective. a ho, ho, ho . all those months ho, ho, ho. all those months when just mentioning the jabs in a negative light was like saying voldemort's name out loud when independent media channels faced censure and worse, just for asking questions about them . and asking questions about them. and now here we are, the astros zeneca jab is withdrawn and called defective , and pfizer are called defective, and pfizer are being sued by the state of texas. all those accusations of misinformation , disinformation misinformation, disinformation and mal information levelled at anyone who so much as put their hand up and asked a question and yet even now with pfizer in court, ceo albert bourla is empty, boasting of 95%

effectiveness for his company's product is still out there. officially unchallenged. no apologies for false claims and with endless testimony from the likes of joe biden on down, still chanting the safe and effective nonsense . we know now effective nonsense. we know now that when big pharma found itself with lakes of unsold product in the face of what they called hesitancy, biden's white house told big tech to silence any questioning of the jabs and google and facebook and others obuged. google and facebook and others obliged . and we know this. we obliged. and we know this. we can say this now without fear of contradiction . those who stood contradiction. those who stood and continued to stand in the face of all that raise a glass to you and with you and wish you good cheer to those of you who called out in the face of more propaganda the war in ukraine. another raised glass. it was about saving democracy. we were told it was nothing to do with nato expansion . we were told nato expansion. we were told putin had to be stopped in the ukraine or he would invade the rest we were told rest of europe. we were told there nothing useful to know there was nothing useful to know about the of russia and about the story of russia and ukraine the russian

ukraine before the russian military the border on military crossed the border on the 24th of february 2020 to open brackets. don't mention the coup engineered by the us coup d'etat engineered by the us in 2014, when a democratically elected pro—moscow president was ousted in favour of a pro—washington offering for showed by the better part of a decade of murderous attacks on russian citizens of the donbas closed brackets, there might have been an early end to the ugliness , but our own form of ugliness, but our own form of prime minister boris johnson was dispatched by nato to scupper the fledgling peace deal . and so the fledgling peace deal. and so the fledgling peace deal. and so the corpses of more than half a million ukrainian and russian men, women and boys are cold now in ukrainian clay. to all those who had questions about all that from the start, who wanted to know more about ukraine and its tortured history about nazis and baba yar, about how much money was made by arms manufacturers that lobby ceaselessly and successfully for war without end. about blatant corruption that sees billions made while millions die . to all those who millions die. to all those who had questions about all of that

and thought it better to ask them than to stay quiet while generations were harvested like grass. to all those, i say you were right to those who look on helplessly at horror heaped upon horror in the middle east, at that benighted so—called holy land, to those whose stomachs are turned and hearts broken by unspeakable unforgiven evil visited upon women and children and just want it all to stop . i and just want it all to stop. i see. you're right to keep speaking up. i remember the line from the talmud. he who saves one life saves the world entire to those who watch slaughter far away, slaughter that only brings the slot of the threat of slaughter closer to our undefended borders, to troubled communities . shaken and stirred communities. shaken and stirred here at home, i say, keep asking why it must always be this way . why it must always be this way. i say that now. right now . i say that now. right now. asking questions is more important than ever, because always underlying all the most obvious malevolent and manipulative manoeuvrings, the horror shows that boil the blood simmers. another narrative of a quite different sort . it's the

quite different sort. it's the room to which all twisted roads lead and which, more than any other, will be our undoing. if we don't see it for what it is. the so—called climate crisis is. and while we are deliberately distract by all the rest, by pandemic , by mis sold medical pandemic, by mis sold medical products , by politicians, lies products, by politicians, lies by war, by atrocity, we are bled of all our freedoms and rights. and it's those wounds that will hurt us most of all to all those who use their voices to question the suicide note that is net zero and do so in the face of ridicule and condemnation. we know that we, the human species , know that we, the human species, are the carbon to be reduced . i are the carbon to be reduced. i salute you to last week the front pages of the relic media were lit up by the revelation that in november, during a video call with a former un special envoy for climate change, some al jabr of the united arab emirates, president of cop 28 and chief executive of uae state oil company adnoc , said there oil company adnoc, said there was no science indicating a phase out of fossil fuels is

needed to restrict global heating to 1.5 c, and that to take away oil and gas would take the world back into caves. the sultan's remarks sparked outrage from the usual suspects, but his choice of words was important. back into caves, out of the mouths of babes and sultans, it turns out, comes truth. those dismissive of any crisis suspect the intention of the suicide note of net zero is precisely as al jabr says, to so impoverish the developed industrialised west that a new dark age ensues a global neofeudalism that will see a tiny group of unimaginable wealthy people reign over the billions as we scramble for scraps . look around now as the scraps. look around now as the nights draw in, as they always do at this time of year in the north and the sun is absent and the wind doesn't blow. i know that turbines and solar panels ain't going to cut it for the peoples of the northern hemisphere. that , peoples of the northern hemisphere. that, claims hemisphere. no to that, claims of are stick of climate crisis are the stick with are beaten into

with which we are beaten into submission to digital ids and programmable tokens in place of the freedom to save or spend our earnings as we see fit without the surveillance and permission of state to all those who of the state to all those who know this, who have been speaking out about this for years , i say your voices are years, i say your voices are more powerful than perhaps, you know, the as the know, here's the thing. as the author of the letter i quoted at the top makes clear, even the the top makes clear, even in the darkest of times, we should know we are on a wondrous journey. and truth is that more and and the truth is that more and more fellow travellers are joining every day . the more you joining every day. the more you speak, the easier it becomes to say more. i say no, you are right. don't doubt that you are right. don't doubt that you are right . joining me tonight right. joining me tonight is the broadcaster and tv personality, the wonderful ingrid tarrant . the wonderful ingrid tarrant. good evening. >> good evening, neil. >> good evening, neil. >> how do you feel at this time of year and listening to what was said in recent days about

the climate crisis? >> i'm on the same page as you every single page . climate every single page. climate change. i've always thought it was a nonsense . even before they was a nonsense. even before they started getting rammed down our throats, i understood cyclical changes, experience extreme climates from lots of snow one year to not others. i remember in norway there was snow up to the first floor window as i woke up one morning and there it all was. and that was quite rare. we've been able to walk the fjords on ice. sometimes it's warmer, sometimes it's really cold and this has been something that i've been quite passionate about. i don't know why , but for about. i don't know why, but for years and years, because of nature. nature . so of nature. i love nature. so of course, when this started to come out and be rolled out and we were kind of the brainwashed thing started as they so cleverly do, i just thought, this is absolute rubbish . and in this is absolute rubbish. and in fact, i did a little look , now fact, i did a little look, now i'm going to show you this. i went to the museum of london

some time ago. the it's missing there because somebody was standing in front of the there's a there's a head there. so i don't quite know what how what happens see the pattern. happens there. see the pattern. but can see pattern. but you can see the pattern. this the current climate this is the current climate change. we're going back to 400 bc to 50,000, 400,000 b.c. sorry. yes. to 50,000 bc. and that's it. and then it's going up and up and up. this demonstrates very clearly that it is completely normal, but we're not helping . i agree. we're not helping. i agree. we're not helping. and we've got to start taking responsible steps. i want i want to talk about when it comes to green revolution, it's things like the pollution that we are carelessly responsible for. >> all over the world. and as part of that, i would say that the use of rare earth minerals, rare earth metals , plastics and rare earth metals, plastics and all of the rest of it for the turbines and the rest of the so—called green energy is part of the problem because it is it absolutely care about the

greening of the planet want more c02 greening of the planet want more co2 in the atmosphere because it's plant food, of course. >> absolutely. and this is this is the stupidity of all they look at the end product. ah look wind turbines and solar panels forgetting what goes into it. it is it is sucking the earth more and then they don't last. and then you can't dispose of them. recycle. so they end up as landfill fill. so the whole thing is a complete nonsense . thing is a complete nonsense. what i'm very concerned about and another thing i have been for years and years and years is a massive deforestation , because a massive deforestation, because that is, of course sort of creating a big imbalance of the c02. the creating a big imbalance of the co2. the trees are another carbon sink. yes, it's there's your balance. and we've always talked about this sort of like the ecosystem and the delicacy of it and the balance of it. and there is so that deforestation has been going on for decades and decades and decades, and it contains continues to do so now ,

contains continues to do so now, i know steps are being made to reduce it because of the palm oil getting rid of the palm oil. i really can't stand the people that are saying let's get rid of all the cows because that's we're ruining it all to feed the cattle. >> but yes, i see the green revolutionaries are not good for the planet . but after the break, the planet. but after the break, i'll be joined by american author alex epstein to talk about the comment made by sultan al—jaber, cop al—jaber, the president of cop 28. claimed there no 28. he has claimed there was no science indicating that a phase out fuels is needed to out of fossil fuels is needed to restrict global heating. don't go .

gb news radio. >> well , i'm gb news radio. >> well, i'm back now. >> well, i'm back now. >> my first guest tonight is alex epstein, who advocates for the expansion of fossil fuels and rejects the scientific consensus on climate change. alex is the author of the moral case for fossil fuels and fossil

future , in which he argues for future, in which he argues for the expanded use of fossil fuels like coal , the expanded use of fossil fuels like coal, oil and natural gas. i'm told that alex is not quite ready to take part in this conversation yet. ingrid we can pick up with our shared indignation. >> yes, about the way in which we are browbeaten rather than having our questions entertained in an adult fashion. but they can browbeat us because they have the money when i say they, it's the people that are wanting to take control . to take control. >> we've got him. we've got alex. i can't wait to hear him. alex. i can't wait to hear him. alex joins me now. >> hello, alex. thank you for joining me once again. we've spoken before your yeah , great spoken before your yeah, great to be here alex sultan al—jaber, head of cop26 eight and his comments about how the retreat from fossil fuels will force the people of the world back into caves. what say you about such a person saying such a thing at such a place and time ? such a place and time? >> well, i think the part about

the caves is 100% true. the other thing he said is not quite true, but it's let's talk about the caves part first. so fossil fuels provide 80% of the world's energy. they're still growing. they're growing because they're uniquely cost effective. that's why china has 300 new coal plants in developed development. more that , actually. and more than that, actually. and human beings need energy to use machines to prosper. and flourish. and the world needs way more energy. so getting rid of fossil fuels means putting us back in the cave. no question at all. now, what he said, the other thing he said, though, is we don't need a phase out of fossil fuels to go back to one point to avoid 1.5 degrees c, but what he's arguing there is that we can keep using fossil fuels and somehow capture all the c02. fuels and somehow capture all the co2. this is what he's pretending. and there's no science for this whatsoever right now in the us, if you burn $30 worth of coal, we subsidise you $150 to put it underground . you $150 to put it underground. thatis you $150 to put it underground. that is not a scalable thing.

that's not going to happen around the world. so he's trying to his cake and eat it too. to have his cake and eat it too. he's that this movement he's right that this movement wants send us to the cave, wants to send us to the cave, but he's abetting them by pretending it's compatible pretending that it's compatible with fossil to be with using fossil fuels to be net 2050, whereas you're net zero by 2050, whereas you're totally right. i think you said it was, what, a death wish or death like. yeah, something like that. death like. yeah, something like that . that's what it is. suicide that. that's what it is. suicide note. that's exactly what it is. and that's message that and that's the message that needs spread. that, needs to be spread. not that, oh, it's not a suicide note. as long as we do my expensive carbon capture, that's bs. >> about cop 28 that >> the thing about cop 28 that always bothers is as we see always bothers me is as we see thousands of private jets landing in what may arguably be the air conditioning capital of the air conditioning capital of the world, or if not the caphal the world, or if not the capital, one of them, how can we take it seriously? you know, when kings and princes, quite literally gather to pontificate about how the little people and the poorest people in the world should put up with less, wouldn't it be more credible if, just as a simple starter for ten, they conducted this gathering by video conferencing ?

gathering by video conferencing? >> i think it reveals a lot about the nature of their goal because what they say is, well, this is really important . and this is really important. and what they're recognising is to do really important things. you need fossil fuels. and i agree. but i think 8 billion people should be free to do important things, not just the important things, not just the important things that these people think are important . and but the other are important. and but the other thing that's revealing they thing that's revealing is they have against the have an argument against the hypocrisy charge, is right hypocrisy charge, which is right in certain way. they say if we in a certain way. they say if we fly this distance and use all this private jet fuel, then we're going to stop enough people from using fossil fuels where it'll offset it. but that basically means you're going to kill a lot of people and make them suffer. but that's the whole goal of net zero. are are there cracks in the climate crisis? >> the boiling point narrative ? >> the boiling point narrative? you know, if on the one hand you're saying we're you know, we're agreed that the cutting off of fossil fuels puts millions, billions of people

back into caves, but it's you can't have your cake and eat it and that there are issues that need to be addressed . is there need to be addressed. is there is there a way to balance those books and say can we just take literally the heat out of all this crisis talk ? this crisis talk? >> yeah, 100. i mean , we're >> yeah, 100. i mean, we're seeing this happen in the united states where some presidential candidates are making starting to make a point that i've been making for years, which is that fossil fuels, on balance , are a fossil fuels, on balance, are a climate good because the energy we get from fossil fuels allows us to protect ourselves from any form of climate imaginable. that's why in the us we can flourish, whether it's coal or alaska or swampy florida or scorching , it doesn't scorching arizona, it doesn't matter. so temperature changes don't matter that much . what don't matter that much. what matters is having the energy to master temperature. the other thing is that in terms of warmth and cold, the world is way too cold for most people. we have far more people dying of cold than of heat. so the only reason

this is viewed as a crisis to warm slowly with a lot of energy in a world where far more people die of cold than of heat is just the moral perspective that it's wrong for us to impact things. theidea wrong for us to impact things. the idea that the climate that preceded us was somehow perfect and we're change and that we're evil change agents can do no right. agents that can do no right. that's a primitive anti—human religion. >> bear with alex. that's the anti—humanist. ingrid, how do you feel hearing that we can regard fossil fuels as a climate good as alex says, it makes absolute sense. >> you know? alex oh, i don't know if it still did. alex i'd like to ask you something . we like to ask you something. we talk about the cars and all things from the past and aeroplanes and so on, but everything's got much cleaner , everything's got much cleaner, hasn't it? our emissions, our c02 hasn't it? our emissions, our co2 emissions on all the cars, the aircraft , etcetera, the aircraft, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. so i'm even questioning when you put that in context of how it used to be before when the buildings were

black with the soot from the emissions, at what point are we greener now than we were way before? do we get credit for that which has been accomplished? >> alex rather than just constantly being beaten over the head ? head? >> well, my perception active and i talk about this a lot in my book fossil future, is that kind of everything we do with energy improves our environment. the natural environment is not a hospitable place . it's naturally hospitable place. it's naturally very deficient in resources and it's very dangerous . and one it's very dangerous. and one thing we do with energy is we make ourselves masters of climate. and so we're 50 times safer in terms of deaths than we were 100 years ago from all the climate related dangers combined. so this is one thing. now you have to make a distinction between that and pollution . we've drastically pollution. we've drastically reduced pollution because that really, really matters to us. so that's when you're talking about the soot and other things. we have increased the amount of co2 in atmosphere i'm in the atmosphere and i'm totally and good with totally okay. and good with finding that

finding alternatives that are cost effective. but we should not be reducing at all in not be reducing energy at all in a world where far more people die, far more people need energy . we have 3 billion people using less electricity than a typical us refrigerator . we should not us refrigerator. we should not be restricting fossil fuels whatsoever to stop those people from developing such an important point . important point. >> alex epstein, thank you so much . we've spoken before. i'm much. we've spoken before. i'm sure we will speak again, but thanks so much for what you've had to say so far this evening. a masters of climate . that's how a masters of climate. that's how we should see ourselves. >> yeah. yes >> yeah. yes >> fossil fuels give us the >> the fossil fuels give us the control. well, yeah. rather than us . yeah, but us being victims. yeah, but going another break, after going to another break, after which, i'll be joined by the chairman third generation chairman of third generation environmentalism, tom burke, who says, contrary, we must says, on the contrary, we must take against climate take action against climate change right now. don't go anywhere .

radio.

>> welcome back. my next guest this evening is the chairman of e—3g , an independent climate e—3g, an independent climate change think tank with a global outlook. tom burke has dedicated his life to working to combat climate change and says we must act now to get rid of fossil fuels or we will regret it later . tom joins me now. thank you for being here again. evening, neil. the chairman of cop28 suggesting that cutting fossil fuels as you require would put unknown numbers of people back into the dark ages, back into caves. how would you have responded if you had been in the room? >> if i'd been in the room, i'd have agreed with him that if there's a real chance of putting people back into the dark ages and the caves, but only if we don't stop burning fossil fuels, he's got it the wrong way round . he's got it the wrong way round. the is the kind of the real problem is the kind of destruction that will do to bafic destruction that will do to basic food security , water basic food security, water security, all the things that make life safe for us with a changing climate really will mean it won't be quite the dark

ages and the caves, but it really will be very bad for people. >> do accept that the >> do you accept that the hypothesis or the notion that we are very vulnerable to climate as a species, that ten times as many people die of cold every yean many people die of cold every year, for example, than die of heat and that the reliable sources of energy upon which we have dipped depended have made us safer in the face of climate . it. >> well, i think it was perfectly right for people to do what they did when they didn't know what they now know. so of course, course, it's right course, of course, it's right for look after for people to look after themselves. but we have got lots of ways to make sure that of better ways to make sure that we actually do exactly what we can actually do exactly what you're concerned about. stay safe, of those safe, stay warm. all of those things need to do without things we need to do without putting the risk that all of that will be taken away from us. >> and that, do you mean >> and by that, do you mean wind? so yeah, yeah. >> energy efficiency , wind, solar. >> and you believe that in the northern hemisphere, in the winter example, can winter, for example, we can realistically . yeah, absolutely. realistically. yeah, absolutely. persuade me. >> well, i don't know if i can,

neil. i'm prepared to take on difficult things, but persuading you would be asking a lot. >> persuade me because it >> but persuade me because it seems it's much of what i read says it's not realistic to give people reliable energy around the clock. >> put it like this. we won't do it if it's not affordable it if it's both. not affordable and reliable. think and not reliable. do i think it's affordable and it's both affordable and reliable? do . we spent reliable? yes, i do. we spent half a billion a year in this country turning off wind power. we've in the north we've got available in the north sea because we can't use it because we haven't built the right grid to do it. >> we can't store it. >> we can't store it. >> yes, we can. you know what we do to store it? we turn it into hydrogen and we can use hydrogen, something quite like our existing fired power our existing gas fired power stations cope for those stations to cope for those penods stations to cope for those periods the wind doesn't periods when the wind doesn't blow doesn't shine. blow and the sun doesn't shine. >> and there are side effects to splitting water into seawater, for example, into to get hydrogen in there. it generates massive amounts of chlorine, which is toxic like is everything in place. >> so i think sorry, neil, that's not right. >> when you split water, you get hydrogen and oxygen and

hopefully you get oxygen. we hopefully you get the oxygen. we keep when you split seawater, keep it when you split seawater, when you desalinate when you when you desalinate water, you're exactly right about if you if you if you about that. if you if you if you try to decolonise seawater in order to get drinkable water, you create very nasty brine, which is very poisonous and toxic to move on a little when it comes to the predictions of extreme danger. >> we've heard all of it before , >> we've heard all of it before, have we? not all my life. i'm 56 and i'm old enough to remember when there was when the modellers said it was going to be an ice age, which didn't happen. now the successors happen. and now the successors to the same modellers are saying the world is on point of the world is on the point of catching fire. the melting of the no, no ice at the poles, the loss of the polar bears . none of loss of the polar bears. none of it's happened. the sea levels rising. none of it's happened . rising. none of it's happened. why should we believe the latest catastrophes ? catastrophes? >> well, i'm i'm 77, so i've been around as long as you and i've been listening to these stories a bit longer than stories for a bit longer than you nobody's saying the world >> and nobody's saying the world is going to catch fire. nobody's

saying that boiling point. >> there's a lot of hyperbole. saying that boiling point. >> sorry's a lot of hyperbole. saying that boiling point. >> sorry ,. a lot of hyperbole. saying that boiling point. >> sorry . let ot of hyperbole. saying that boiling point. >> sorry . let mef hyperbole. saying that boiling point. >> sorry . let me be yperbole. saying that boiling point. >> sorry . let me be clear.le. saying that boiling point. >> sorry . let me be clear. some >> sorry. let me be clear. some people are saying that, right? they're wacky. they're quite a lot people about lot wacky people talking about this so i'm not this subject. so i'm not surprised that you're going to run them from time to time. run into them from time to time. but not what the but that's not what the scientists are saying. what the scientists are saying. what the scientists is if we scientists are saying is if we go like this we can track go on like this and we can track the of change, actually the kind of change, actually quite lot are quite a lot of them are happening already. we probably put everybody's bill put £600 onto everybody's bill in country simply because put £600 onto everybody's bill in cchange;imply because put £600 onto everybody's bill in (change is|ply because put £600 onto everybody's bill in (change is makingause put £600 onto everybody's bill in (change is making itse climate change is making it harder food we need . harder to grow the food we need. >> ingrid, it's very difficult for and i. >> ingrid, it's very difficult for i and i. >> ingrid, it's very difficult for i knowj i. >> ingrid, it's very difficult for i know non non scientists. >> i know non non scientists. yes. yes >> but you've got you've got much more knowledge than i have. >> we listen on the one hand to alex and then we listen to tom andifs alex and then we listen to tom and it's pulls apart how are you, how do you and i navigate between these extremes. >> it's very difficult, >> well, it's very difficult, but to say , this is the but i have to say, this is the beauty of being able to have an open mind because it's i listen to what you say and i listen. i know where i stand on this, but i'm not would never dismiss what you say. and you have your

scientific backup. but can i just ask you something like the northwest passage that is opening up now where it wasn't before, where it was completely iced over, but it wasn't before. so this is a this. >> sorry, i've lost . i've lost. >> sorry, i've lost. i've lost. where are you going with that? >> well, what i'm where i'm going with this is that you know, the polar melt and everything is melting and the sea waters. right. obviously. which with ice which it will do with. with ice and snow melt. but that has happened before. yeah, we know that. >> yeah, that's. you're completely right about that. just civilisation just wasn't civilisation wasn't around weren't around at the time. we weren't around at the time. we weren't around that was around at the time. that was true. so yeah, it has, but it's always actually been, but it's really . really maintained. >> think i might have >> and i think i might have mentioned this to you before about graham hancock, where he's taken deep, taken sample oils deep, deep into cores into the ice. they've got cores and see the oxygen and you can see the oxygen levels and you can see the balances of the of the gases and everything . and it hasn't everything. and it hasn't changed. wonderful changed. nature has a wonderful way it, but what about way of doing it, but what about then, deforestation, do you not think we stop doing that and think if we stop doing that and stop houses and in stop building houses and in permeable surfaces that that is

the way really to stop it and then we can live comfortable side by side with fossil fuels , side by side with fossil fuels, with like taking taking medicine for diabetes, which is a good idea. >> so both those things are good things to do. but what you better do is stop actually eating sugar so your diabetes gets and worse. or gets worse and worse. okay? or otherwise, you've got problem. otherwise, you've got a problem. but you know a bit about but neil, you know a bit about this because you're an archaeologist and you know about, you know, we've had civilised nations that civilised nations before that have the have collapsed because the climate went wrong and all that's different about now is not that something that hasn't happened to civilisation before climate, we're kwasi have climate, but we're kwasi have been climate arguably have been a climate may arguably have been a climate may arguably have been in, in the change been a factor in, in the change in the success or failure of, of civilisations. >> but what about what about co2 or the great bete noire of, of the climate, the climate crisis. now i read a great deal about how rising levels of co2 follow are a consequence of a warmer planet, and they're not the

driver of the warming of the planet that we're not. is that true? no. >> so part of it. >> so part of it. >> sorry. let me be more clear, neil. it's partly true. in other words , if we warm the planet and words, if we warm the planet and the permafrost melts and the permafrost can heinz really vegetation that hasn't rotted , vegetation that hasn't rotted, basically. and if that vegetation rots , then you'll put vegetation rots, then you'll put even more co2. so you get a vicious spiral or a lag. >> it's about 800 years after the planet begins to warm, which it does from time to time that the cause and the rest show an increase in the presence of co2. it would be analogous to looking at a horse and cart from a distance and imagining the cart was pushing the horse , when in was pushing the horse, when in fact it's the horse pulling the cart. >> if what you're doing is taking a kind of very gigantic view from outer space over the over the history of the planet, then you will get periods like that. are driven by that. those are driven by changes in the earth's angle of in relation to the sun. how it spirals around changes in geology . so changes spirals around changes in geology. so changes in spirals around changes in geology . so changes in the way

geology. so changes in the way a volcanic eruptions. those things do make change, but they make them on very, very long timetables. what we're talking aboutis timetables. what we're talking about is changes that are happening inside my lifetime and your lifetime . your lifetime. >> and different. >> and that's different. i that's different than anything i find myself constantly lost because listen , i just listen because i listen, ijust listen to alex speak and he speaks persuasively and then and then 30s later, i find myself listening to tom. >> i know. and it's and it's so credible on both sides. my instinct tells me that i want to. i don't want to follow you, tom, although it's a completely scientifically backed . up scientifically backed. up because something just, just doesn't quite. >> but i'll tell you what i think. listening to neil, i caught a bit of your monologue before that bit. i understand quite seems to me to quite a lot that seems to me to be something that matters to you a which is freedom to you . a lot, which is freedom to you. want people to be free to do things. and i understand that. i like to be free to do things as well. but you can't be free to do anything if you're not free

from things that really destroy your possibility for life. and that's in climate that's the tension in climate change. people change. that's why people can listen when don't know listen to when they don't know the they're not the science, when they're not sure to trust. all those sure who to trust. all those things human beings things that normal human beings that's at the basis of it. judgement everybody is going to make is make for themselves, which is which more important. freedom which is more important. freedom to from no of choice. >> i would my, i think my, my ultimate to you to ultimate question to you has to be, is it morally right to imperil the lives of bill simmons alive today ? simmons alive today? >> hypothetically , to improve >> hypothetically, to improve the chances of people who don't yet exist, sometime in an unknown future? >> i have no idea. i to unknown future? >> i have no idea . i to tell you >> i have no idea. ito tell you what i do think is morally right. >> people from the i think it's morally right not to do something today that will mean our children have a good chance to live. >> think that would be that >> i think that would be that would wrong. not to would be morally wrong. not to do we can do something do that. and we can do something because i think climate change i'm worried about what i'm not worried about what happens but happens well after i'm gone, but i about what happens i am worried about what happens to grandchildren of to children and grandchildren of people alive now and if we don't

solve this problem, there lives will be impaired. and i think it would be morally irresponsible not do. i'm going to i'm not to do. i'm going to i'm going to i'm going to let you have that last word because it comes place. comes from an honest place. >> you very much for >> thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with us this you. sadly, sharing your thoughts with us tihave you. sadly, sharing your thoughts with us tihave to you. sadly, sharing your thoughts with us tihave to go you. sadly, sharing your thoughts with us tihave to go to you. sadly, sharing your thoughts with us tihave to go to a you. sadly, sharing your thoughts with us tihave to go to a break|. sadly, sharing your thoughts with us tihave to go to a break and dly, sharing your thoughts with us tihave to go to a break and then i have to go to a break and then after that, time for something completely they completely different, as they used another show, used to say on another show, amateur archaeologist have found amateur archaeologist have found a was a lost tudor palace that was once the grandmother of once home to the grandmother of henry eighth. don't go away .

welcome back to neil oliver live. my final guest this evening is the chairman of collyweston historical preservation society in northamptonshire . the group is northamptonshire. the group is made up of amateur archaeologists who have discovered buried walls and foundations of the collyweston royal palace, which fell into

disrepair around 1650 when it was bought by the dutch tryon family, who built another house on the site. chris close joins me now to talk about this amazing find. hi, chris. i'm chris. i'm always hesitant. oh, no, i'm always hesitant about putting amateur in front of archaeologists as though it suggests that, you know, less than other archaeologists. i like one big family of archaeologists who are all just in the business of trying to find out what on earth was going on before. how did you go about doing what you've done? you know, if the if the if the establishment archaeologists couldn't find this thing, how and why did you . and why did you. >> well, we've had obviously technology on our side , neal. so technology on our side, neal. so really , when it comes down to it really, when it comes down to it , you know, the technology side of things, modern day technology like ground penetrating radar , like ground penetrating radar, access to internet files and the like , has given us a distinct

like, has given us a distinct advantage compared to people that have tried in the past to find the palace. >> what what was the moment when you realised that what you were doing , that that your endeavour doing, that that your endeavour was , you know, was bearing was, you know, was bearing serious fruit . serious fruit. >> well, there wasn't really what i would call a eureka, a eureka moment where we said, you know, we've now found the palace. it was really a culmination of many years of investigations and speaking to various different experts over the time , um, i guess the ground the time, um, i guess the ground penetrating radar is the thing thatis penetrating radar is the thing that is really shining a light to where the palace was and ultimately how big it is, what will your ongoing work there bnng will your ongoing work there bring to let's say, our understanding of and our interest in your figures, figures from the past? >> you know, we're talking about the grandmother of henry, the eighth, mother of henry, the seventh. how do we what will be

added to the sum of our wisdom ? added to the sum of our wisdom? >> well, the records have actually helped us change the national narrative and understand of lady margaret beaufort, who , you know, was the beaufort, who, you know, was the person most prominent of owning collyweston palace, you know , i collyweston palace, you know, i think many of the documentaries that we see on tv have always shown this lady as being some sort of, you know, wicked stepmother type character . one stepmother type character. one thing that we can see from the palace records is that, you know, was actually a very know, she was actually a very caring person . she cared deeply caring person. she cared deeply for poor . she would caring person. she cared deeply for poor. she would buy them for the poor. she would buy them shoes and this is something that doesn't always come across in national about her. yeah. >> ingrid , what what we're >> ingrid, what what we're heanng >> ingrid, what what we're hearing there is so right. margaret beaufort. she was she was 12 when she was married off. she was 13 when she had her first child. >> how her only child , you know, >> how her only child, you know, she she suffered so much during that, you know , such an early that, you know, such an early pregnancy that she never had any more children . more children. >> and yet, you know,

tenaciously she remained there. you know, she looked after her son. she looked she was lived long enough see henry the long enough to see henry the eighth the throne. eighth on the throne. >> it's amazing, isn't it? >> it's amazing, isn't it? >> you know, these these figures as you know, they as we're hearing, you know, they can and so misrepresented. >> oh, completely. well, especially women especially the women back in those mean, it's those times. i mean, it's getting a better now, but getting a lot better now, but it's not where really it's still not where it really ought be. that respect isn't ought to be. that respect isn't really there. i am so excited about finds like this. i love the tudor times. i love hampton court palace and i remember when it was burnt down and just sort of seeing how it was all constructed and even shells that were used for fireproofing and soundproofing, all the things that they used, it's extremely exciting . exciting. >> chris will this will anything that's being revealed remain revealed? are there long term, you know, plans for it to be something that tourists and history lovers could visit and see something of this missing treasure . treasure. >> yes , absolutely.

>> yes, absolutely. >> yes, absolutely. >> so we've got an ongoing project that we've we've just started working in collaboration , in collaboration with the university of york and the royal palaces at hampton, and for a project called the henry on tour project. so basically what this is trying to work out and find out more about is in 1541, henry the eighth stayed at collyweston and typically he would bring 2 to 300 people with him . and what to 300 people with him. and what we were looking to try and find out more what what did these people eat? where did they live? what happened to the local economy here in collyweston when these full entourages came to these full entourages came to the village? so once we've got more , more, we know more about more, more, we know more about the palace and the layout, then we're hoping to go to 3d mock—ups of the palace and we'll have a permanent exhibition here at saint andrew's church in collyweston. >> i always find that, you know, figures like henry the eighth might even be the best exemplar. >> maybe elizabeth the first. but it's hard to after all this

time really, to invest these people with reality. they've almost become cartoon caricatures of themselves . and caricatures of themselves. and it's so important, you know , it's so important, you know, when you see those those foundations , those low levels of foundations, those low levels of floors that they once walked upon a building that they once knew. it's almost as though a light comes on in your head and you think, oh, gosh, yes, they were real. they did go to houses. they did, you know, they did all the normal things of did all of the normal things of life. oh, absolutely. >> think the one of the >> and i think the one of the bits that we've had the most fun, you know, with this project has been not just the bricks and mortar component palace mortar component to the palace project, all of project, but it's been all of these secondary stories these little secondary stories that human element to that help put a human element to the and bring the palace the palace and bring the palace to life. >> brilliant, to life. >> brilliant , chris, to life. >> brilliant, chris, i can't thank you enough. it's such a it's such a thrill always for me to catch these glimpses because i'm not in archaeological i'm not in the archaeological community thank so community anymore. thank you so much. thanks also, of course, to my brilliant panel. ingrid tarrant, thank you for being with . thanks my guests with me. thanks to all my guests this evening. next, the saturday

five up but first, as five is next. up but first, as i understand it, you're about to get your latest weather from ellie. see you soon. >> looks like things are heating up. >> ”l: up > up. >> up boxt boilers spot answers of weather on gb news is . of weather on gb news is. >> hello. welcome to your latest gb news weather. i'm ellie glaser . so a very unsettled glaser. so a very unsettled picture over the next couple of days with low pressure, very much in charge of our weather. the first system brought plenty of wet and windy weather named storm ellen by the irish met service with storm fergus sat out the west, bringing out to the west, bringing further through further wet weather through sunday. back to saturday evening though, drier picture though, and a drier picture across of england and across parts of england and wales that band of rain has wales as that band of rain has pushed its way into northern england, northern england, scotland and northern ireland as well, where that heavy continues fall on heavy rain continues to fall on some saturated ground. so some very saturated ground. so some very saturated ground. so some is possible here. some flooding is possible here. under clear skies, though, under those clear skies, though, further we could see further south, we could see temperatures or 7 temperatures around 6 or 7 degrees, but perhaps just a little parts of little cooler across parts of scotland . so a cloudy start scotland. so a cloudy start across scotland, sunny across scotland, but some sunny skies begin across

skies to begin with across england wales before the england and wales before the next in from the next system pushes in from the west, bringing some further spells and some spells of heavy rain and some strong to those strongest strong winds to those strongest winds along those irish sea coasts through sunday afternoon. and rain and evening. but that rain continues to push its way north and eastwards into parts of scotland through sunday afternoon temperatures here afternoon. temperatures here generally , but a generally around average, but a little milder again across the southwest around 13 or 14 southwest at around 13 or 14 degrees. it's a cloudy start to monday for most of us with outbreaks light rain and outbreaks of light rain and drizzle times. some drizzle at times. but some heavier rain across parts of scotland in from the scotland pushing in from the east we through into east as we go through into monday afternoon. the best of the sunshine, though, again across wales and parts of england we could see some england where we could see some sunny through sunny skies through the afternoon. temperatures generally around average for the time . and there's some time of year. and there's some hints something bit hints of something a little bit more settled the through more settled on the way through next . next week. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar for sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> who is it? we're here for the

show . welcome to the dinosaur show. welcome to the dinosaur houn show. welcome to the dinosaur hour. with me , john cleese . hour. with me, john cleese. haha, that was married to a therapist and you survived . i therapist and you survived. i thought we were getting hugh laurie, second best man bellissima. you interviewed saddam hussein. what's that like? i was terrified . i'm like? i was terrified. i'm playing strip poker with these three. >> oh , no, thank you. >> oh, no, thank you. >> oh, no, thank you. >> my cds need to be put in alphabetical order. >> oh, are you going to be problematic again ? problematic again? >> the dinosaur our sundays on .

gb news. >> it's saturday night and this is the saturday five. i'm darren grimes along with albie amankona beunda grimes along with albie amankona belinda de lucy, benjamin butterworth and poppy coburn. tonight on the show. if you want

your bends to have houses, reduce mass migrate an suella was wrong about many things, but she was right to talk about the values of migrants crossing the channel. >> it's time to celebrate the stiff upper lip after nigel farage demonstrates it so well in the jungle. >> last night. >> last night. >> why? i agree with her late majesty, we must pay for the security of harry and meghan. and why it's time to end the covid inquiry farce once and for all. >> it's 7 pm. and this is the. saturday five. >> welcome to the saturday five. now, folks. nigel farage might be in the jungle, but it's going to be much more wild in here over the next hour . every week over the next hour. every week join i'll be benjamin and myself along with our guest stars tonight, it's the former brexit party mep belinda de lucy and a new face to the show, the assistant us opinion editor at