good evening. >> you're with gb news. the top story this hour. the home office says it does have robust plans in place for migrant flights to rwanda . following reports that rwanda. following reports that some airlines are refusing to take part in the government's illegal migration policy. it comes after the deputy prime minister said rishi sunak was right to warn that illegal migration could over whelm. european states . oliver dowden european states. oliver dowden insisted the government's rwanda plan will work and is an essential step towards getting a grip on the problem. >> we will make sure that we have the right piece of legislation . it's not about legislation. it's not about keeping one part of the party happy or another part of the happy. look, i'm i'm confident that the prime minister has looked at this very carefully and has got the best possible measures. but if there ways measures. but if there are ways of improving further, just as of improving it further, just as with piece legislation, with any piece of legislation, we will work with backbench with any piece of legislation, we will wof. with backbench with any piece of legislation, we will wof parliament,3nch members of parliament, including

conservatives . if we can make it conservatives. if we can make it even better. of course we'll do that, oliver dowden, now baroness michelle mone, has admitted she failed to reveal her links to a company that suppued her links to a company that supplied ppe gowns to the nhs dunng supplied ppe gowns to the nhs during the covid 19 pandemic. >> medpro is the company currently being investigated by the national crime agency , while the national crime agency, while the national crime agency, while the department of health is taking action over a breach of contract. she told the bbc that she made an error by not revealing her links to the company, which led to her husband's trust receiving around £60 million of taxpayers money. but she insisted that lying to the media wasn't a crime . the media wasn't a crime. international news and there's been growing pressure on israel, with david cameron joining germany's foreign affairs minister in calling for a ceasefire in gaza. in a joint article for the sunday times newspaper today, the new foreign secretary warned that too many civilians have been killed and

he said it was time for a sustainable ceasefire. the intervention is a significant shift in the government's tone on israel's war against hamas terrorist . it's a senior network terrorist. it's a senior network rail manager has had to resign after hundreds of passengers were left stranded for more than three hours on a stationary train outside london. michelle handforth had been the managing director for the wales and western region since 2021. her departure comes after hundreds of passengers were stuck in darkened carriages after a fault with an overhead cable meant all trains were held without power or explanation. outside paddington in west london. earlier this month, passengers complained that they were given no information and, more critically, no access to toilet facilities . footballer tom facilities. footballer tom lockyer remains in hospital today after suffering a cardiac arrest during a football game yesterday. the luton town fc

captain is in stable condition. he's undergoing tests and scans in the second half of yesterday's premier league match in bournemouth was abandoned after he collapsed on the field . after he collapsed on the field. the 29 year old was unresponsive before being taken to hospital and lastly , the northernmost and lastly, the northernmost point of the shetland islands has become home to the uk's first licensed spaceport ready for vertical rocket launches. the first take offs from saxavord aud are due next year. that's after the civil aviation authority gave the go ahead. the privately owned site will host up to 30 launches every year for companies looking to send satellites into space, the transport secretary says it will help put the uk at the forefront of space innovation . that's the of space innovation. that's the news on gb news as across the uk, on tv , in your car, on uk, on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. this is britain's news channel .

this is britain's news channel. >> british airways removes a jewish sitcom from its inflight entertainment activities . it's entertainment activities. it's pledged to ignore new government guidelines on kids who claim to be trans, and the mayor of boston holds a racially segregated christmas party this is free speech nation . welcome is free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics. and of course, we'll have the latest from those lovable culture warriors. only week culture warriors. only a week left for them to get left now for them to get christmas cancelled. let's see how do. coming up on the how they do. coming up on the show tonight, educator show tonight, vegan educator ed winters he's going winters will be here. he's going to about his new book, to tell us about his new book, how to argue with a meat eater and win every time. louis schaefer cannot wait that schaefer cannot wait for that one. as we lewis, i'm doing one. and as we lewis, i'm doing the introduction the show. the introduction to the show. don't as we reached don't interrupt as we reached

the myers the end of 2023, fraser myers from spiked will be here to discuss this year's biggest stories regarding free speech and what we can expect for 2024. and we end the year with a victory for free speech. we're going to be hearing about a teacher who won teacher in america who won a landmark victory after landmark legal victory after being for avoiding the use being fired for avoiding the use of personal pronouns when speaking of speaking to a student. and of course, myself and my fantastic panel will answering of panel will be answering lots of questions studio questions from our studio audience and my comedian panellists are jonathan panellists tonight are jonathan kogan louis schaefer, who . kogan and louis schaefer, who. welcome. thank you. >> thank you, thank you, thank you. welcome to you, louis. >> i'm disturbed that you're wearing striped socks because i think it's a bad look for you. >> oh, well, let the audience decide. you're wrong about many things. >> i am wrong about many things. >> i am wrong about many things. >> i am wrong about many things. >> i mean, that's only in this country is the only country in the gay men have the world where gay men have horrible sense. horrible fashion sense. >> that's. and that's me. is >> and that's. and that's me. is it? >> and that's. and that's me. is it.7 yeah. it.7 that's you.7 yeah. unbelievable friend it? that's you? yeah. unbelievable friend mine unbelievable friend of mine described ursine the described you as ursine the other day. i think that's a good description. like like description. like bear, like like bear.

like a shaved bear. >> need to use to >> you didn't need to use to define that word me. oh, no. define that word for me. oh, no. >> know what it meant. >> you know what it meant. >> you know what it meant. >> i didn't know what it meant. >> i didn't know what it meant. >> well, now you do. this is like an education. how you, jonathan? >> i'm pretty good. >> i'm pretty good. >> had a week? >> have you had a good week? yeah. good week. >> the gb party night? >> that the gb party last night? >> that the gb party last night? >> at the gb news >> you were at the gb news christmas party. was very christmas party. was that very raucous? fun. raucous? yeah, it's good fun. >> if you think the one in boston segregated, you boston was segregated, you should them. it should have seen them. no, it was lot more latex was good fun. a lot more latex than thought. liz truss was than i thought. liz truss was there. than i thought. liz truss was the yeah, two things aren't >> yeah, those two things aren't connected. well if connected. no. well if the rumours allegedly brazier rumours are allegedly brazier louis, on. very louis, let's move on. very quickly from quickly to some questions from the we've a the audience. so we've got a question hi, mary. question from mary. hi, mary. >> white people >> hello. should white people be banned christmas yeah. >> mary's on it straight away. this is what jonathan was alluding is this is what jonathan was alll mayor is this is what jonathan was alll mayor of is this is what jonathan was alll mayor of boston, is this is what jonathan was alllmayor of boston, michelle the mayor of boston, michelle wu, and she, uh. well, apparently has been apparently boston has been holdingevery year for a few parties every year for a few years now. and but the mistake that the mayor, the current mayor that she sent out mayor made was that she sent out invitations to white guys as invitations to the white guys as well council. right. and well in the council. right. and they're the they're only meant to invite the non—white is they didn't non—white guys is they didn't invite the white women , because

invite the white women, because that sounds like an all right party. >> i'm just saying no. >> i'm just saying no. >> look, i was saying, guys, in a gender neutral sense, okay? >> fair enough. a gender neutral sense, okay? >> what fair enough. a gender neutral sense, okay? >> what do r enough. a gender neutral sense, okay? >> what do you ough. a gender neutral sense, okay? >> what do you make of this, jonathan? mean, it's racial jonathan? i mean, it's racial segregation isn't segregation is bad, isn't it? i thought we'd decided that few thought we'd decided that a few decades think was >> yeah, i think there was a word for racial segregation. i couldn't remember what it is. >> can't put my finger on that one. >> no, i mean, what u one. >> no, i mean, what i think? >> no, i mean, what do i think? it's. obviously very it's. it's obviously very divisive. a libertarian divisive. um, from a libertarian perspective, should be perspective, they should be able to who want a to invite who they want to a party. but at the same time, this is a government official. yeah. >> the mayor. yeah it's not really that's that's really i mean, that's not that's not is it? we've actually not good, is it? we've actually got her apology. got some footage of her apology. let's at this. got some footage of her apology. let'i at this. got some footage of her apology. let'i think at this. got some footage of her apology. let'i think we've at this. got some footage of her apology. let'i think we've we've s. got some footage of her apology. let'i think we've we've had >> i think we've we've had individual conversations with everyone. understand everyone. so people understand that honest that it was truly just an honest mistake in mistake that went out in, in typing email field. and typing the email field. and i look forward celebrating with look forward to celebrating with everyone holiday parties everyone at the holiday parties that besides this everyone at the holiday parties that as besides this everyone at the holiday parties that as well. besides this everyone at the holiday parties that as well. so besides this everyone at the holiday parties that as well. so um, sides this everyone at the holiday parties that as well. so um, ities this everyone at the holiday parties that as well. so um, it is; this everyone at the holiday parties that as well. so um, it is mys one as well. so um, it is my intention that we can again be a city that lives our values and creates space for all kinds of communities to come together . communities to come together. >> you know, i really don't care. i mean, if people want to

host a non—white party or a, you know, a jewish only party or a gay only party, i don't care. but the point is that that's the mayor the that is very bad mayor and the that is very bad to segregate to racially segregate as a mayor. it's it's not mayor. it's not. so it's not like in our own time, this is an official right. official council party, right. >> well, if, if, if the government if the whatever the state, the, you state, the government, the, you know, is paying state, the government, the, you kncit, is paying state, the government, the, you kncit, it's is paying state, the government, the, you kncit, it's really is paying state, the government, the, you kncit, it's really bad.; paying state, the government, the, you kncit, it's really bad. it'sying for it, it's really bad. it's terrible, it's bad. but the irony is, is she's a white irony of it is, is she's a white woman and laugh . right. but woman and you laugh. right. but in , people of chinese in america, people of chinese east, whatever it's called, east asian people are in the white category, considered white. >> now that's right. now, a lot of critical race theorists have sort of said that asian pacific people jason, sort of said that asian pacific people they jason, sort of said that asian pacific people they havejason, sort of said that asian pacific people they have because . they because they have because. they succeed, because they do very well. and they, they, uh, you know, in fact, it's harder for people from, from that origin to get ivy league universities get into ivy league universities because the so because they set the rates so much. is much. and that is institutionalised racism. much. and that is instsurelyalised racism. much. and that is instsurely ourzd racism. much. and that is instsurely our jews ism. much. and that is instsurely our jews white because much. and that is ilgeturely our jews white because much. and that is i|get aaly our jews white because much. and that is i|get a lotour jews white because much. and that is i|get a lot of' jews white because much. and that is i|get a lot of tweets vhite because much. and that is i|get a lot of tweets on e because much. and that is i|get a lot of tweets on twitterlse i get a lot of tweets on twitter telling that i'm not so it'd telling me that i'm not so it'd be nice to know. >> well, think that's very >> well, i think that's very much you. okay. as as

jew. >> all right. i'm off white. okay >> there we go. you've made you've made your decision there. >> there we go. you've made you'velmade your decision there. >> there we go. you've made you'vel do de your decision there. >> there we go. you've made you'vel do thinklr decision there. >> there we go. you've made you'vel do think generally, there. okay. i do think generally, i think it's bad. racial segregation the segregation is bad. that's the moral you moral of tonight's story. you save christmas. there we save christmas. yeah. there we go. a question go. let's get a question from nicholas. hi. yeah. >> could airlines in the >> could airlines show in the jewish escalate the jewish sitcoms escalate the middle east conflict? >> yeah, now, this is an middle east conflict? >> �*story now, this is an middle east conflict? >> �*story becauselow, this is an middle east conflict? >> �*story because this this is an middle east conflict? >> �*story because this hasn't an odd story because this hasn't had near as much had anywhere near as much traction suspect. traction as one would suspect. british airways , you know, they british airways, you know, they have their in—flight entertainment they've have their in—flight entertai|to ent they've have their in—flight entertai|to take they've have their in—flight entertai|to take a they've have their in—flight entertai|to take a sitcom. they've decided to take a sitcom. it's called hapless. uh, it's a sitcom about jewish people. it's a british sitcom. our friend josh apparently in it. josh howie is apparently in it. i haven't seen the show, but apparently he's he's in that show. and they've said this show. uh, and they've said this because want because they don't want to appear sides in the appear to be taking sides in the war between israel and hamas. now, louis, this sitcom has got absolutely nothing to do with the war in in israel. it's to do with it's just about jewish people. yeah >> uh, no, that's not true . >> uh, no, that's not true. >> uh, no, that's not true. >> what do you mean? >> what do you mean? >> because the war is all about jewish people. it's all about. okay it's all it. but do you think the british airways should be taking this show off? do you

think anybody in this country be taking this show off? do you think (careidy in this country be taking this show off? do you think (care aboutthis country be taking this show off? do you think (care about the country be taking this show off? do you think (care about the war�*ntry be taking this show off? do you think (care about the war iny would care about the war in israel if it wasn't jews . um, israel if it wasn't jews. um, there were millions. there were hundreds of thousands of people killed in syria. right next doon killed in syria. right next door. lebanon has had incredible wars. there's wars all over wars. there's been wars all over what's in yemen right what's going on in yemen right now? cares now? yeah um, okay. nobody cares about they only care about about it. they only care about it because it's about jews. so it because it's about jews. so it is the only thing about that, louis, uh, i read an awful louis, is, uh, i read an awful lot syrian conflict. lot about the syrian conflict. >> to be papers >> it seemed to be in the papers every day, so i'm not so sure what all these the what all these people, the people hoi, hoi polloi, the people hoi, the hoi polloi, the uneducated and unwashed masses, the . the proles. >> gb news. you're already >> watch gb news. you're already regretting inviting you tonight . regretting inviting you tonight. >> um, jonathan, what do you make of this? i mean, so josh is in show, right? josh? harry is. >> we've actually got him down the line now. he's. >> haven't. don't and >> no we haven't. don't try and take show jonathan. oh, sorry. >> no, i thought he was okay. um, well, i can do a josh impression. >> no, please. please don't do think. >> yeah. no, it's obviously it's the same. we're taking the same. we're not taking a side. very clearly side. they're very clearly taking side. they're very clearly tak now are by taking. >> now they are by taking. >> now they are by taking.

>> it down. what they mean. >> that's the. that's the irony, isn't it? they said that they wanted to avoid wanted to take it off to avoid the perception of taking side, the perception of taking a side, but they clearly but by removing it, they clearly are. is a clear, you >> and that is a clear, you know, conflation between, you know, conflation between, you know, is know, jews and zionists. is there jewish like there anything jewish is like zionist is just we zionist and zionist is just we all it's like a whistle all know it's like a dog whistle saying, we like jews as zionist. >> i mean, it does feel a bit anti—semitic. does anti—semitic. it does anti—semitic, doesn't it? anyway, uh, so that's british airways let's on airways for you. let's move on to question from alan. where's to a question from alan. where's alan? alan. to a question from alan. where's ala hi alan. to a question from alan. where's ala hi alguys. well, >> hi there guys. well, considering gender ideology considering the gender ideology raises the raises its ugly head under the tenure party should tenure of the tory party should they ban children from they now ban children from changing gender? >> so it's. well, they're going to publish the guidance. think to publish the guidance. i think it's published it's going to be published tomorrow, but they've been dragging on this. dragging their heels on this. haven't haven't they? um, alan, what's about do haven't haven't they? um, alan, whathink about do haven't haven't they? um, alan, whathink that about do haven't haven't they? um, alan, whathink that they»out do haven't haven't they? um, alan, whathink that they should do haven't haven't they? um, alan, whathink that they should just» you think that they should just say no to social transitioning in schools? >> government funded body, >> any government funded body, anything which comes from the pubuc anything which comes from the public should not have any public purse should not have any gender ideology there at all. full stop . it's very clear cut full stop. it's very clear cut for me. >> and is that because you're you take the view that it's a kind of faith based system ? it's

kind of faith based system? it's undermining secularism. >> it's more that, uh , the way >> it's more that, uh, the way it's being done with the tavistock and recently it's actually promoted and pushed upon people. yes. and, you know , upon people. yes. and, you know, there are people some people do have issues here and they should be looked after, but not the other way around. it's not let's force these issues onto people . force these issues onto people. yeah, it's completely inverse to the way it should be. >> it's very difficult for teachers as well. i mean, i've got a teacher friend who contacted me to say that he was informed there was one, a child informed there was one, a child in his class who to be in his class who wanted to be known of the opposite known by a name of the opposite sex, and he was told to refer to her by the chosen name. but when writing or writing to the parents or filling reports the filling out reports to use the old in other words, to lie old name in other words, to lie to parents. so. so, you to the parents. so. so, you know, guidance is well overdue because a lot of schools just don't know what they're doing in this situation. should this situation. ian, i should say the cass review say as well that the cass review did say that social did say that the social transitioning, which is when you treat someone as the opposite sex names and

sex and use the names and pronouns that they desire, the cass said that that was cass review said that that was not are not a neutral act. there are ramifications to it can ramifications to that. it can further engage in feelings of gender dysphoria, leading to puberty blockers and cross—sex hormones, and in some cases, irreversible surgery. so there is a danger to reinforcing a child's perception of themselves . um, but there's this added problem, which is about alerting the parents. i mean, some activists, jonathan, are saying that to ignore that they're going to ignore the government guidelines and that if comes to them and if a child comes to them and says want to be trans says that they want to be trans or want to transition, they're not the parents, not going to tell the parents, they're to tell anyone. >> well, the thing i find alarming that school alarming there is that school teachers know better teachers think they know better than the parents right than the parents what's right for right. exactly for the child. right. exactly i don't like that. that feels like government overreach even government overreach and or even if government if it's not government guidelines, it's institutional overreach because you have the teachers doing that. like i think in, you know, especially in important scenario like in an important scenario like this, the parents in an important scenario like th to the parents in an important scenario like th to say the parents in an important scenario like th to say we're the parents in an important scenario like th to say we're doing parents in an important scenario like thto say we're doing something clandestine. >> think, also , and i >> i think, well, also, and i should emphasise this, because obviously did teach obviously i did teach a training, so i know what i'm talking here. don't

talking about here. uh, don't laugh louis. laugh at me, louis. >> was that show? >> uh, was that a show? >> uh, was that a show? >> it's true, did. i used >> no, it's true, i did. i used to teacher, and i know that to be a teacher, and i know that one of the first things you get taught teacher is you can taught as a teacher is you can neven taught as a teacher is you can never, diddle, uh, no. never, ever diddle, uh, no. jonathan you can never, say jonathan you can never, ever say to tell me to a child, you can tell me a secret and it's going to be confidential. can't. that's confidential. you can't. that's just no, it's a just absolute. no, no, it's a deeply it's deeply unprofessional. it's a safeguarding can safeguarding issue. so that can never activist never happen. these activist teachers are saying that's exactly going exactly what they're going to do. they should be fired. >> yeah . right. yeah. if they if >> yeah. right. yeah. if they if they're going to go behind, um, what's best parents. teachers. yes. exactly. >> yeah. thank you. good. lewis say something sensible. i disagree. there we go. >> i disagree because every single day teacher teachers lie to parents. yes, they lie to parents when they say , oh parents when they say, oh johnny, he's he's he's he's a genius. he's a very bright child. he's got a bright future. >> you know what, lewis? i never did that at the parents evening. >> but very common to do. >> but that's very common to do. it's to do the other it's also common to do the other side where they'll tell. they'll tell know what? tell the parents. you know what? your student is pretty is a poor student. >> pu

em- student. >> i don't think that's >> no, no, i don't think that's a way go. did the reverse. a way to go. i did the reverse. and i think a lot my teacher, and i think a lot of my teacher, you know, i would say to a parent, child terrible, parent, your child is terrible, al, and blame you because it's al, and i blame you because it's al, and i blame you because it's a genetic yes. al, and i blame you because it's a gmytic yes. al, and i blame you because it's a g my first, yes. al, and i blame you because it's a gmy first, do yes. al, and i blame you because it's a gmy first, do you think. >> my first, do you think. >> my first, do you think. >> but do you agree with me is that there's so much lying going >> but do you agree with me is thati here's so much lying going >> but do you agree with me is thati here's with|uch lying going >> but do you agree with me is thati here's with you. lying going >> but do you agree with me is thati here's with you. the| going >> but do you agree with me is thati here's with you. the whole on? i agree with you. the whole trans crazy. love gb trans thing is crazy. i love gb news because it's all trans all trans thing is crazy. i love gb nevtime:ause it's all trans all trans thing is crazy. i love gb nevtime and; it's all trans all trans thing is crazy. i love gb nevtime and but; all trans all trans thing is crazy. i love gb nevtime and but but trans all trans thing is crazy. i love gb nevtime and but but it'sns all the time and but but it's teachers lie to parents. >> well they shouldn't is the point. they shouldn't be lying to parents. they should be communicating with parents. clearly, child has medical. >> first kiss was with my >> my first kiss was with my history when in history teacher when i was in year eight. >> is yeareight. » a year eight. >> a serious >> jonathan, is this a serious anecdote? telling anecdote? you're telling now? yeah dark yeah okay. it's got very dark all of a sudden. do you know what's amazing? >> is that jonathan >> amazing is, is that jonathan actually makes me seem a actually makes me seem like a serious person. >> i look the pair of. you're as bad as each other. i don't know what i was thinking. let's move on to another question. now this what i was thinking. let's move on tisanother question. now this what i was thinking. let's move on tis from. r question. now this what i was thinking. let's move on tis from. let's stion. now this what i was thinking. let's move on tis from. let's stionfindw this what i was thinking. let's move on tis from. let's stionfind the1is one is from. let's just find the name where's john? hi, john. >> hi. good evening. my question is, are diverse programs being phased out . phased out. >> yeah, this is really interesting. now we saw that

craze. we, uh, footage of congress where the three presidents of harvard and penn and asked you know, is and mit were asked you know, is it against your code conduct? it against your code of conduct? hateful conduct to call hateful code of conduct to call for genocide of jews? and for the genocide of jews? and they all struggled? well, it depends context. yeah. depends on the context. yeah. that's why they saying that's why they kept saying depends it was depends on the context. it was the ridiculous but depends on the context. it was thea ridiculous but depends on the context. it was thea result diculous but depends on the context. it was thea result of ulous but depends on the context. it was thea result of that, but depends on the context. it was thea result of that, we've but depends on the context. it was thea result of that, we've had as a result of that, we've had a major backlash against die departments in american universities. and inclusion . diversity, equity and inclusion. and a lot of people are just saying no more to this because it's effectively institutionalises the institutionalises racism in the name racism. now name of phasing out racism. now in oklahoma , the governor, kevin in oklahoma, the governor, kevin stitt, has this week said he's he's to sign an executive he's going to sign an executive order, which basically says that die departments will not receive any more funding. they'll be phased out of public universities , not just oklahoma, universities, not just oklahoma, by the way. that's florida , by the way. so that's florida, texas, iowa. it looks like die is dying, right. that wasn't is dying, right. and that wasn't a deliberate pun, but it looks like going, think like it's going, which i think is great. >> well , i is great. >> well, i think not there >> well, i think not only there i and i could be talking i think and i could be talking out school here, i think out of school here, but i think i've that companies like i've heard that companies like disney, of them disney, they're a lot of them are firing their die. um, the

people in charge of within people in charge of that within those doesn't people in charge of that within those to doesn't people in charge of that within those to be doesn't people in charge of that within those to be just, doesn't people in charge of that within those to be just, educational seem to be just, uh, educational institutions. seems to institutions. it also seems to be as well. be big businesses as well. i mean, are people just waking up to i mean, we saw the recent >> i mean, we saw the recent south episode which took south park episode which took the this, where the mick out of this, where people are waking people like you are waking people like you are waking people so people give people up so people don't give me, patronise me, don't patronise me, jonathan. me, don't patronise me, jon honestly, fighting >> honestly, you're fighting the good doing. >> honestly, you're fighting the goo if doing. >> honestly, you're fighting the goo if you doing. >> honestly, you're fighting the goo if you have doing. >> honestly, you're fighting the goo if you have to doing. >> honestly, you're fighting the goo if you have to ask1g. >> honestly, you're fighting the goo if you have to ask for >> if you have to ask for a round of applause, it doesn't count one more time. no, no, no. absolute silence in the studio. um, become like school um, now i become like a school teacher this teacher again. this is ridiculous. i'm not gonna kiss you. don't . don't you. don't. you don't. don't come near me. you tell me. tell me, louis, what you of me, louis, what you think of this? well what side am i supposed to take? louis, why don't tell me your don't you just tell me your opinion? than contrarian? >> that america is the >> a sign that america is the greatest country in the world? >> a sign that america is the gre because ntry in the world? >> a sign that america is the gre because you in the world? >> a sign that america is the gre because you always norld? >> a sign that america is the gre because you always sayd? >> a sign that america is the gre because you always say that. >> because you always say that. but so sure. but i'm not so sure. >> i'm sure because there >> well, i'm sure because there are separate are 50. there are 50 separate little nations control little nations that have control over own their over their own education. their own their stuff. and that's own their own stuff. and that's okay. one of them. and okay. here is one of them. and uh, they're states uh, and they're blue states and red what's uh, and they're blue states and red as what's uh, and they're blue states and red as you what's uh, and they're blue states and red as you as what's uh, and they're blue states and red as you as you at's uh, and they're blue states and red as you as you brought happening as you as you brought up the silo up on this program, the silo thing, people, people and of course, what we were describing earlier know, asian

course, what we were describing earlier students know, asian course, what we were describing earlier students finding, asian course, what we were describing earlier students finding itisian pacific students finding it harder to get into these universities. >> that's because of these dei departments. the ones >> that's because of these dei depesay,ents. the ones >> that's because of these dei depesay, oh, the ones >> that's because of these dei depesay, oh, you've the ones >> that's because of these dei depesay, oh, you've gote ones >> that's because of these dei depesay, oh, you've got to nes >> that's because of these dei depesay, oh, you've got to make who say, oh, you've got to make it difficult for asian it more difficult for asian kids. it's not just kids. you know, it's not just about that. >> there's the departments >> there's not the departments that controlling. and that's that are controlling. and that's something all that are controlling. and that's sontime.g all that are controlling. and that's sontime.g always all that are controlling. and that's sontime.g always think all the time. you always think there's people there's a small group of people who are controlling everything. it deep. it goes very deep. >> clearly goes to the >> well, it clearly goes to the president. exactly. president. yeah, exactly. >> being led the >> and they're being led by the students. any students. it's not it's not any i it's being led by i don't think it's being led by the students. >> think lot it's hr, >> i think a lot of it's hr, a lot it's middle management. lot of it's middle management. you know, we have a lot of this problem. i mean we saw with problem. we i mean we saw with those talking those presidents talking about the right. the hate speech codes. right. but by but that's been implemented by various administrators by various administrators by various that's various dei departments. that's where it's come from. and they've they've they've just well, they've bought they've just well, they've b0l no, i don't think so. i think >> no, i don't think so. i think i think you're you're a university president and believe it you're afraid of it or not, you're afraid of your students. well, that's that. >> no, actually do take >> no, no, i actually do take that i think that's that point. i think that's right. i think ultimately that point. i think that's righ can't i think ultimately that point. i think that's righ can't be hink ultimately that point. i think that's righ can't be calling:imately that point. i think that's righ can't be calling:imithe' you can't be calling for the death. really death. and it's really interesting, that they interesting, isn't it, that they claimed that it was context dependent they're calling dependent where they're calling for jews should be for the death of jews should be allowed on on campus, but these are people that were are the same people that were

punish people for microaggressions. they'll say they'll kick people out inadvertently . or halloween inadvertently. or halloween costumes. so i don't costumes. exactly. so i don't buy any of it. i think it's utterly ridiculous. these are the most censorious people on the most censorious people on the suddenly claiming the most censorious people on the free suddenly claiming the most censorious people on the free speech|ddenly claiming the most censorious people on the free speech masters. .aiming to be free speech masters. absolute let's move to be free speech masters. ab�*nowe let's move to be free speech masters. ab�*now to let's move to be free speech masters. ab�*now to a let's move to be free speech masters. ab�*now to a question let's move to be free speech masters. ab�*now to a question from; move to be free speech masters. ab�*now to a question from judy.e on now to a question from judy. where is judy? hi judy. hello. >> hello. should ceos have to sign off? non—diverse hires ? sign off? non—diverse hires? >> oh, this was a favourite story. this week. we covered this on headliners. it was the chief executive of aviva, amanda blank. she says that she's got to say any, white male to say if any, any white male gets appointed in a senior position. she said she's got to sign it off. uh, the name is blank and her name is actually blank. >> yeah. kidding >> yeah. kidding >> writer. no. couldn't write it. absolutely now, lewis, you were quite exercised about this the other night. you were saying that she should be fired. and then after said then the night after you said she shouldn't be fired. do you have on anything? have an opinion on anything? >> an opinion. no, >> i do have an opinion. no, i have an opinion on it. and i think you know, first think i think, you know, first of exactly the of all, she looks exactly the way she was going to

way i thought she was going to look like liz look like liz truss. like liz truss, looks. exactly. but truss, she looks. exactly. but the personal but she the nothing personal but she looks like one of the i think she looks great. >> she does the she >> she does well the issue she looks issue. looks the issue. >> this is that >> the issue is this is that private should be private companies should be allowed to decide who they think is their company. is best to run their company. i believe that i'm a total libertarian they libertarian that way. if they want, they white men want, if they think white men are should not be are bad, they should not be forced government organisation. >> believe that >> do you not believe that racial discrimination ought to be outlawed? >> believe it should >> i don't believe it should be outlawed. >> that's quite >> no, no, that's quite a controversial position to take. >> believe in, in in freedom >> i believe in, in in freedom of action. if you don't want to hire, if you don't want to work with somebody for whatever reason, if you want to fire them immediately and you know reason, if you want to fire them imme(|ately and you know reason, if you want to fire them imme(| don'tand you know reason, if you want to fire them imme(| don't like you know reason, if you want to fire them imme(| don't like your'ou know reason, if you want to fire them imme(| don't like your glasses. what? i don't like your glasses. i don't the jumper you're i don't like the jumper you're wearing. it is, you wearing. whatever it is, you should them. but should be able to fire them. but but same time, we should but at the same time, we should not be doing business a not be doing business with a company we shouldn't company like aviva. we shouldn't be they're going be because they're not going to hire my children or your hire me or my children or your children. so . let me get this straight. >> so you're you're your view. is that anyone there shouldn't be any racial discrimination

policy. should to policy. anyone should be able to hire on a whim. hire or fire, even on a whim. even that um, even if that means, um, segregating people race. but segregating people by race. but you're response you're saying that the response to criminal to that is not criminal prosecution is for us to boycott those particular companies. >> vote with your wallet essentially. >> do think of that, >> what do you think of that, jonathan? interesting jonathan? it's an interesting idea. jonathan? it's an interesting ide.it's interesting >> it's an interesting idea. i understand where you're coming from. let's uh , from. um, yeah. let's say, uh, you know, there were those law cases in america are legal cases in america where bakers didn't want to make a gay wedding cake. right. >> well, the cake wasn't gay. the cake. the cake depicted a gay image. yeah, yeah , yeah. gay image. yeah, yeah, yeah. >> fair enough. it could have been a fruit cake. now that's not funny. um. that fine. not funny. um. wow that fine. i don't know if that's or don't know if that's okay or not. it's okay. not. i think it's okay. >> yeah, check with ofcom >> yeah, i'll check with ofcom afterwards. on. afterwards. go on. >> they stop watching. >> yeah. uh, they stop watching. um, no. it's, the idea um, yeah. no. so it's, the idea is well, yeah, it's your is like, well, yeah, it's your business. you should be able to do whatever you want to do. and if you are racist or homophobic or whatever, i personally wouldn't then frequent them, i wouldn't then frequent them, i wouldn't i think wouldn't pay. and i think they should be effectively boycotted and out of business. but and put out of business. but i don't they be don't think they should be compelled don't think they should be compelthat also happened in

>> but that also happened in belfast. ashers belfast. there was the ashers cake belfast a gay cake bakery in belfast and a gay guy tried to get them to make a cake with who the gay cake with who were the gay puppets sesame street, bert puppets from sesame street, bert and an and ernie. yeah with, with an image a little bit. >> oh no. >> oh no. >> bisexual, i think, but but bert and ernie were on cake bert and ernie were on the cake and it was pro marriage and it was a pro gay marriage cake. well, we cake. and they said, well, we couldn't make this because it's against our values. kind against our values. and i kind of both that, but of i saw both sides of that, but i kind of thought, just make the cake. a cake. it's not cake. it's just a cake. it's not a big deal, it? this went on a big deal, is it? this went on for it was ridiculous. a big deal, is it? this went on for then it was ridiculous. a big deal, is it? this went on for then on was ridiculous. a big deal, is it? this went on for then on the ridiculous. a big deal, is it? this went on for then on the otherlous. they but then on the other hand, they weren't weren't refusing weren't they weren't refusing him was gay. they him because he was gay. they were because they were refusing him because they disapproved yeah. >> or even puppets. the idea of somebody. >> might be the puppet issue. >> it might be the puppet issue. absolutely. yeah, yeah. we didn't is i mean, what i'm saying it saying is right now, aviva, it used union . used to be norwich union. >> i actually have an a policy with that has about with them that has about five years a life years left to run a life insurance policy and something you and i'm thinking i'm thinking, what? i'm thinking, you know what? i'm feeling going to feeling fit. i'm not going to need so maybe i should trade need it. so maybe i should trade it but but it is despicable, >> but but it is despicable, isn't she. mean, she isn't it? what she. i mean, she did what she did. >> she. aviva needs to be

punished. they need lose 10 punished. they need to lose 10 or of their market value. or 20% of their market value. >> but by boycotting rather than by criminal prosecution, by boycotting . boycotting them. >> so when people see the name aviva, just get disgusted. aviva, they just get disgusted. if happening a black if this was happening to a black person , every white person would person, every white person would say, do say, i'm not going to do business they're business with them. they're prejudice black people. prejudice against black people. well, you should a campaign. >> lewis. look forward it. >> lewis. i look forward to it. >> lewis. i look forward to it. >> campaign >> i'm not starting a campaign because care that much. >> i'm not starting a campaign becokay, care that much. >> i'm not starting a campaign becokay, well, care that much. >> i'm not starting a campaign becokay, well, look, that much. >> i'm not starting a campaign becokay, well, look, that's|uch. >> okay, well, look, that's that's don't care that much. that's you don't care that much. you've just been ranting about it, could change my mind tomorrow. >> i know you probably will let the i'm going to the people. lewis. i'm going to have a break now. sorry. yeah. okay. next speech okay. next on free speech nation, author and nation, best selling author and award ed award winning filmmaker ed winters to tell winters will be here to tell us about new how to argue about his new book, how to argue with eater. i can't wait

>> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> welcome back to free speech nation. ed winters is a strong

advocate of veganism who has become a best selling author, a hugely successful public speaken hugely successful public speaker, and a content creator whose videos have been viewed millions of times. known as earthling ed, he has spoken at a string of top universities around world, including around the world, including cambridge and harvard, and his short , about the short film milk, about the reality of the dairy industry, won this year and his won an award this year and his debut book was a best seller. his second is how to argue with a meat eater, which will be released this month, and released later this month, and ed winters joins me now . welcome ed winters joins me now. welcome to the show, ed. >> thank you for having me. so let's start with chicken run two. >> right. so this is a new film that's come out now. apparently it is about chickens being rescued a well i suppose a rescued from a well i suppose a battery farming situation where they would eventually be turned into nugs . yes. i think the into nugs. yes. i think the subtitle of the film is dawn of the nuggets. that's right. yes, yes. think that film yes. do you think that that film is encourage more is going to encourage more children meat? children to turn off meat? i mean , i think there's a good mean, i think there's a good argument but there argument for it, but there again, came 23 again, chicken run came out 23 years so. again, chicken run came out 23 yea um, so. again, chicken run came out 23 yeaum, and so. again, chicken run came out 23 yeaum, and was a similar theme. >> um, and was a similar theme. so not necessarily holding so i'm not necessarily holding

out it will change out hope that it will change lots i think it lots of minds, but i think it will people into will influence people into hopefully thinking a little bit more origins more deeply about the origins of their is the their food. i mean, is the problem that it's just people think is too good? think the taste is too good? i think the taste is too good? i think biggest think taste is the biggest driver culture. think think taste is the biggest driiof culture. think think taste is the biggest driiof those culture. think think taste is the biggest driiof those thingere. think think taste is the biggest driiof those things are think think taste is the biggest driiof those things are the nk all of those things are the biggest we biggest driver in why we continue to harm animals unnecessarily. >> a way i'm >> yes. now, in a way i'm playing devil's advocate advocate a advocate here because i am a vegetarian. the is, a vegetarian. but the point is, a lot of people will say, well, we have omnivores as you have evolved as omnivores as you know, we as a species eat meat and vegetables, even the formation of our teeth is related to that. so why should we go against our nature? i suppose many herbivorous animals do have canine teeth, and i'm not saying that we're strictly herbivores necessarily, i do herbivores necessarily, but i do think choice. think we have choice. >> and the evidence seems to suggest quite strongly . so >> and the evidence seems to sthinkt quite strongly. so >> and the evidence seems to sthink that quite strongly . so >> and the evidence seems to sthink that when; strongly. so >> and the evidence seems to sthink that when; stronglyto so >> and the evidence seems to sthink that when; stronglyto our i think that when we look to our history, been history, we've been opportunistic ate opportunistic omnivores. we ate what could survive. but what we could to survive. but now in a time where we now we live in a time where we have nutrition information and we have availability and accessibility of all different types we actually types of foods. so we actually have and with choice have choice. and with choice comes response to comes the response ability to make decisions. so what make ethical decisions. so what is key ethical argument is is your key ethical argument is it rights .

it really about animal rights. yeah i mean the reason i went vegan and the main pillar of veganism, which i promote, is that to reduce that of trying to reduce animal suffering and death, because what animals for food, what we do to animals for food, we don't have to do, you know , we don't have to do, you know, we don't have to do, you know, we put 90% of pigs in gas chambers in this country. we we put 90% of pigs in gas chanbabiesi this country. we we put 90% of pigs in gas chanbabiesi this ifrom ry. we we put 90% of pigs in gas chanbabiesi this ifrom their; take babies away from their mothers. macerate mothers. we macerate newborn baby chicks the in the egg baby chicks in the in the egg industry male. industry when they're male. so we a whole truly we do a whole host of truly terrible and we do a whole host of truly terrimportant and we do a whole host of truly terrimportant thing and we do a whole host of truly terrimportant thing is and we do a whole host of truly terrimportant thing is we and we do a whole host of truly terrimportant thing is we don't the important thing is we don't have to do those things. so we should them. have to do those things. so we shouldfor them. have to do those things. so we shouldfor you them. have to do those things. so we shouldfor you , them. have to do those things. so we shouldfor you , anthem. have to do those things. so we shouldfor you , an animal life is >> so for you, an animal life is as valuable as human life, not as valuable as a human life, not necessarily, an animal's necessarily, but an animal's life worthy enough be life is worthy enough to not be reduced meal on my dinner reduced to a meal on my dinner plates. in plates. now, it's interesting in your is really your books, your book is really about rhetoric. about about rhetoric. it's about persuasion. about persuasion. you're talking about to meat eater, to how argue with a meat eater, right? key elements right? what are the key elements of you give us of your book? can you give us any of the tips? i'm not sure how many vegans watch the show. well, i hope, yeah, maybe not so many, but, um, the thing i always think is vegans often have an optics problem, right? >> that of >> and i know that viewers of this may at me a this show may look at me as a vegan think, well, vegan vegan and think, well, a vegan activist is going to be judgemental and militant and forceful. so know that forceful. and so i know that

vegans optics problem. vegans have an optics problem. and actually way and i think actually the way that create genuine that we can create genuine conversations meeting each that we can create genuine convewhere s meeting each that we can create genuine convewhere we're meeting each other where we're at and dissecting other's dissecting each other's views, because that because i don't think that the idea veganism is idea behind veganism is something all odds something that we're all at odds at. everyone here says they were against cruelty, but how at. everyone here says they were againswe cruelty, but how at. everyone here says they were againswe put cruelty, but how at. everyone here says they were againswe put that|elty, but how at. everyone here says they were againswe put that into but how at. everyone here says they were againswe put that into practice about we put that into practice and well, it's wrong to and say, well, if it's wrong to kick dog, should we? must kick a dog, should we? it must be force pig be immoral to force a pig into a gas that throat gas chamber so that the throat of an animal. >> that's interesting >> that's a very interesting approach. the view approach. so you take the view that and you're right, there is a isn't there? people a consensus, isn't there? people are when are always outraged when an animal that animal is harmed. remember that footballer for footballer hurt that kitten for instance. it's just a instance. so people it's just a consensus you start from consensus. so you can start from that sort of bring it that point and sort of bring it out a little bit. but but ultimately, will people be open to it's such to persuasion because it's such a of established way of a big sort of established way of life, isn't it ? life, isn't it? >> i mean, it's a hard task. don't get me wrong. sometimes it feels i'm, know, feels like i'm, you know, rolling up hill to rolling the rock up the hill to rolling the rock up the hill to roll down on top me roll back down on top of me again. ultimately again. but i think ultimately people well—intentioned . people are well—intentioned. they do about animals, and they do care about animals, and it's about encouraging it's just about encouraging people to think more deeply about food connect about their food and to connect with their plate. with the animals on their plate. so a hard task. but change so it's a hard task. but change is i am confident. >> so when you talk the

>> so when you talk about the perception of vegans right now, i there been i think right there have been i've evidence, some i've seen some evidence, some very militant, uh, vegan behaviour. i think a lot of behaviour. and i think a lot of people are concerned because it comes across sometimes as a bit authoritarian. in other words, the that make the choices that they make about their lifestyles, want their own lifestyles, they want to everyone else. do to impose on everyone else. do you that's right? well, you think that's right? well, i don't think that's actually the case. >> i think vegans can be very, you know, we be you know, vocal. we can be passionate, can't force you know, vocal. we can be passionto e, can't force you know, vocal. we can be passionto do can't force you know, vocal. we can be passionto do anything. t force you know, vocal. we can be passionto do anything. thece anyone to do anything. the decision audience decision that the audience makes tonight they have dinner or tonight when they have dinner or breakfast morning, is breakfast tomorrow morning, is a decision that they make. however, about however, when we talk about authoritarianism, authoritarian ism, being forceful, when we buy meat, dairy and eggs, we're forcing to have their forcing animals to have their lives taken from them be lives taken from them to be mutilated harmed, to mutilated and to be harmed, to be impregnated. and if be forcibly impregnated. and if you a vegan and a non you compare a vegan and a non vegan, more vegan, the non—vegans far more forceful a non vegan forceful because a non vegan makes the animals tens of billions of animals every single year terribly for the year suffer terribly for the food choices they make. >> but as a vegan activist, do you ever despair at some of the tactics of of your tactics of some of your colleagues? sometimes, colleagues? i mean, sometimes, for see for instance, peter, i can see it can extreme in the

it can be quite extreme in the way they approach certain things and they they almost become self—satirising. and not self—satirising. and i'm not sure they're helping their sure if they're helping their own cause by taking that approach. >> think there are >> no, i think there are definitely tactics which >> no, i think there are definitnecessarilylctics which >> no, i think there are definitnecessarily overall1ich aren't necessarily overall helpful, the word extreme helpful, but the word extreme is interesting. i think the language we use quite language we use is quite telling. again, think to cause telling. again, i think to cause harm someone else is the harm to someone else is the extreme and some extreme position, and some tactics to everyone. but when effective to everyone. but when we words and we look we view these words and we look at of them, we think at the origins of them, we think about what word extreme about what the word extreme means. extreme to about what the word extreme mear animals extreme to about what the word extreme mear animals into extreme to about what the word extreme mearanimals into gas(treme to about what the word extreme mearanimals into gas chambers force animals into gas chambers than it is to on the than it is to stand on the street provocative street with a provocative placard people to stop. placard telling people to stop. have success have you had any success in converting to the converting carnivores to the herbivorous life ? i mean, i hope herbivorous life? i mean, i hope so, yeah. i've had people signing up to different things. people leave me nice messages. obviously get obviously it's hard to get a true gauge of the influence that, you know, we as individuals have. certainly that, you know, we as ilthinkuals have. certainly that, you know, we as i|think there'sve. certainly that, you know, we as i|think there's been certainly that, you know, we as i|think there's been lot ainly that, you know, we as i|think there's been lot of|ly i think there's been a lot of changes , hopefully changes, hopefully as a consequence of my work. >> chosen >> and is that why you've chosen to this book? to write this book? >> i mean, i yeah, i mean, to write this book? >> of i mean, i yeah, i mean, to write this book? >> of the nean, i yeah, i mean, to write this book? >> of the work i yeah, i mean, to write this book? >> of the work thatah, i mean, to write this book? >> of the work that i], i mean, to write this book? >> of the work that i do mean, a lot of the work that i do is centred around conversations, pubuc centred around conversations, public and i've had centred around conversations, pqupportunity and i've had centred around conversations, pqupportunity to and i've had centred around conversations, pqupportunity to stress i've had centred around conversations, pqupportunity to stress test had an opportunity to stress test a lot of arguments, people lot of my arguments, meet people from walks of

from all different walks of life, farmers, life, hunters, farmers, ranchers, be, and ranchers, whoever it may be, and have conversations like what we're and so it's we're having now. and so it's really putting really about putting that information book and information into a book and hopefully vegan hopefully giving it to a vegan or and at the end or a non vegan. and at the end of it, hopefully they have a more favourable impression of veganism. >> i mean, i'd be very fascinated you to fascinated to see you talking to someone who makes their living from, industry. from, uh, the farming industry. yeah, and perhaps i should have ianed invited someone from that perspective have perspective as well. but have you those direct you had many of those direct conversations, or is it mostly a kind online oh, i've kind of online thing? oh, i've had on had many direct conversations on tv the streets and tv, you know, on the streets and in in different formats. >> and i've had many conversations with farmers, some farmers partially farmers who you know, partially disagreed, but we had good conversations. met lot of conversations. we met a lot of common and also common ground and also a farmers. met farmers who farmers. i've met farmers who used farm animals who've now used to farm animals who've now transitioned and so transitioned out of that. and so there little transition there is a little transition happening within the happening even within the farming community. and importantly, we still have importantly, we can still have productive and effective conversations, even with people productive and effective convfundamentally with people productive and effective convfundamentally disagree ple productive and effective convfundamentally disagree with us. >> us. >> i think that's really important to able to disagree important to be able to disagree politely get somewhere politely and to get somewhere civilly, up civilly, and maybe to end up persuading someone, i persuading someone, um, but i just imagine mean, maybe it's just imagine i mean, maybe it's my about farmers, but my prejudice about farmers, but i imagine they'd be quite annoyed they do

annoyed by you and that they do get annoyed by vegans generally. well, sometimes. >> it's >> and i think it's understandable. vegans understandable. i mean, vegans are criticising are in a way criticising what they of they do quite passionately, of course. asking for course. and we're asking for them and can them to change. and so i can understand farmer might understand why a farmer might feel but ultimately, feel that way, but ultimately, what want farmer, vegan, what we all want farmer, vegan, whoever which is, you whoever is a world which is, you know, more sustainable, where we can food to feed can produce more food to feed more and a more more people and a more accessible affordable price, accessible and affordable price, and veganism . that and veganism. is that so? actually, about encouraging actually, it's about encouraging farmers re—evaluate way farmers to re—evaluate the way they land , the way they look after land, the way that they make their and that they make their money, and ultimately, we can create a transition a and more transition to a fairer and more equitable system together. equitable food system together. >> the farmers who >> so what about the farmers who will to you, but we go out will say to you, but we go out of to ensure the of our way to ensure that the animals killed humanely animals are only killed humanely and that they are looked after throughout their life , and that throughout their life, and that there's where there's no situation where where cruelty is exercised. i understand point in understand your point that in some is some circumstances there is horrible in abattoirs horrible cruelty in abattoirs and the like, but some farmers will absolutely they will say, absolutely not, they do that. do you accept do not do that. do you accept that that's the case? >> absolutely not, because >> no, absolutely not, because the or the word humane means having or showing or showing compassion or benevolence. showing compassion or be cutolence. showing compassion or becut someone's showing compassion or be cut someone's throat? showing compassion or becut someone's throat? is it to cut someone's throat? is it benevolent into benevolent to force someone into a and take their a gas chamber and take their life from them?

>> do you draw a distinction, though, between the some very bad practices of bad practices in terms of the slaughter the and slaughter of animals and the and the animals, and slaughter of animals and the and the who animals, and slaughter of animals and the and the who do animals, and slaughter of animals and the and the who do try animals, and slaughter of animals and the and the who do try to animals, and slaughter of animals and the and the who do try to pursues, and slaughter of animals and the and the who do try to pursue what those who do try to pursue what they describe as the more humane approach? legal, approach? well, the legal, regulated standards are horrifically cruel. >> the that >> they're the ones that allow forced mutilations. the impregnations of animals, the separations of babies, gas chambers, all of these things are law. on are regulated by law. sure, on some may be animals some farms there may be animals who are kicked and punched, but i'm things foie i'm thinking of things like foie gras you know, where. gras and where, you know, where. >> that's a form torture . >> that's a form of torture. >> that's a form of torture. >> but animal products are a >> but all animal products are a form think form of torture. when we think of to these animals of what happens to these animals and the legal, and we look at the legal, regulated practices, foie gras is do in is terrible. but what we do in this to the animals here this country to the animals here is things is also terrible. the things that as well as that we do legally as well as illegally. so actually, i think that when you look the word that when you look at the word humane, humane to humane, what's more humane to kill to kill, how kill or not to kill, how successful think will be? >> i mean, where are we the >> i mean, where are we at the moment in terms numbers? moment in terms of numbers? like how that how many? i know that there's been an upsurge of veganism and people based people moving to plant based diets. have any sense diets. do you have any sense of how of increase we've seen? >>i seen? >> i mean, it's hard to know what population, you know, growth is and different things.

generally, growth is and different things. generaltrend hard to upward trend and it's hard to know that know exactly what that translates to real translates translates to in real terms. are seeing, terms. what we are seeing, i think strongly, is an uptake in people conscious think strongly, is an uptake in pe0|aware. conscious think strongly, is an uptake in pe0|aware. even conscious think strongly, is an uptake in pe0|aware. even this nscious think strongly, is an uptake in pe0|aware. even this word us and aware. and even this word flexitarian bandied around flexitarian gets bandied around a don't necessarily a lot. i don't necessarily know how everyday how it applies to the everyday person, but i think we are person, but what i think we are seeing growing seeing is a growing shift towards people thinking more consciously about their food choices ultimately making changes. >> okay, well, ed winter's book is called how to argue with a meat eater, and that is available now, believe. is meat eater, and that is avaiiright?iow, believe. is that right? >> w e 28th >> it's published in the 28th of december, available for december, but it's available for pre—ordering now. >> ed, so >> fantastic. ed, thanks so much for me. welcome. thank forjoining me. welcome. thank you. you. and next on free you. thank you. and next on free speech nation, fraser myers from spiked online will be here. we're going to discuss the big free speech stories from 2023 and what we can hope for in 2024. d0 and what we can hope for in 2024. do not go anywhere .

life. your listening to gb news radio show . radio show. >> welcome back to free speech

nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. so with just a couple of weeks to go until the end of the year, what better time to reflect on the current state of free speech in the uk and around the world? our advocates free speech are our advocates of free speech are starting win the argument. or our advocates of free speech are sta|the win the argument. or our advocates of free speech are sta|the forces] the argument. or our advocates of free speech are sta|the forces1tirepression,t. or are the forces of repression, censorship culture censorship and cancel culture are only getting stronger and stronger. has stronger. spike online has always advocate always been an advocate of freedom of expression, and deputy fraser myers joins deputy editor fraser myers joins me welcome to the show, me now. welcome to the show, fraser. thanks for having me. so free speech. where are we at the moment? every i kind of moment? every year i kind of think, are we getting better? are more people becoming alert to the problem? i'm not so sure. >> yeah, i think picture >> yeah, i think the picture is quite actually. quite grim, actually. i think it's fair to say for us in the uk can be arrested for uk you can be arrested for posting agenda critical tweet. you have protest shut you can have your protest shut down even starts down before it even starts on suspicion of causing a public nuisance . you can have your bank nuisance. you can have your bank account removed from you if you hold a contentious political views and around the world, social media down your social media can take down your posts. they are so—called posts. if they are so—called misinformation . yes, that could

misinformation. yes, that could even encompass things that are true, but that the authorities have decided are wrong in some way . way. >> why don't people understand why this is a bad thing? i mean, i survey that i saw a survey that said that a quarter of labour voters think it's fine for a to bank debunk you disagree with what you if they disagree with what you if they disagree with what you say. in the wake of the nigel farage case, why can't they that this is going they see that this is going to bite eventually? think bite them eventually? i think that's the issue. that's i think that's the issue. >> i think a lot of the time people think, well, it's only wrong'uns being affected people think, well, it's only wrongpeople being affected people think, well, it's only wrongpeople who being affected people think, well, it's only wrongpeople who don'tg affected people think, well, it's only wrongpeople who don'tg affe

there this sort of for tat there is this sort of for tat when speech. when it comes to free speech. people don't. if it's people just don't. if it's happening to the other side, they don't really care. >> that really worries me. i think have think you just need to have a consistent stance. i mean, particularly when it comes to protest art. you know, i've been i the way i was very worried about the way in government in which the government snuck through sort of through that sort of anti—protest measure before the coronation, and then this, this recent in recent one that they've put in so they effectively ask so that they can effectively ask anyone to leave for whatever reason. they don't, they anyone to leave for whatever reasthen they don't, they anyone to leave for whatever reasthen arresthey don't, they anyone to leave for whatever reasthen arrest them. n't, they anyone to leave for whatever reasthen arrest them. i't, they anyone to leave for whatever reasthen arrest them. i mean, can then arrest them. i mean, this kind of thing this this kind of thing shouldn't on in a shouldn't be going on in a free society, should it? >> dangerous. >> it's incredibly dangerous. and with coronation and we saw with the coronation that immediately that law came immediately into use of use and, you know, sort of anti—monarchy protest, voters were protests would were told their protests would be because they were, were told their protests would be know, because they were, were told their protests would be know, there ecause they were, were told their protests would be know, there was;e they were, were told their protests would be know, there was;e suspicion , you know, there was a suspicion that they cause public that they might cause a public nuisance. a law nuisance. uh, there's a law which kind of understandable which is kind of understandable against on where of against locking on where lots of extinction protesters extinction rebellion protesters in have tied in the past have sort of tied themselves. you know, using bike locks things. so there was locks to things. so there was a specific but specific law put into that. but the protests were the republic protests were accused locking on accused of having locking on devices had some devices because they had some sort that were just sort of ties that were just actually hold actually just being used to hold their together. right their placards together. right so was taken as, as so already that was taken as, as evidence you know, their ill

evidence of, you know, their ill intent. meanwhile, on the other hand , you you there's hand, you know, you see there's an enormous standard over an enormous double standard over these protests . so you have the these protests. so you have the huge kind pro—palestine huge kind of pro—palestine protests, there elements protests, and there are elements of , you know, of that that are, you know, genuinely anti—semitic and genuinely anti—semitic and genuinely quite hateful and they are kind of given a free pass by the police. you know, the police have people might have seen the metropolitan well, metropolitan police say, well, there meanings there are different meanings of jihad. not necessarily an jihad. it's not necessarily an arrestable i don't arrestable offence. now i don't think people should think those people should be arrested. i think they have every their every right to express their views, how hateful. views, no matter how hateful. but think when you know, but i think when you know, censorship does make hypocrites of all. yes, i've heard a lot of us all. yes, i've heard a lot about two tiered policing. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> it does drag the police into being political yeah. being political actors. yeah. and very and the police have been very guilty arresting people guilty of, of arresting people investigating people, sending threatening investigating people, sending threjustling investigating people, sending threjust they do seem to believe >> just they do seem to believe that it's their job to police our thoughts and our words. absolutely >> and in particular, you've seen that the police , the seen that the police, the british police have effectively become the armed wing of gender ideology. um, you know, recently a woman before the a woman was hauled before the police. you know, told she would

have interview or be have to do an interview or be arrested she tweeted arrested because she tweeted things women things as simple as trans women are . she said that trans are women. she said that trans women are not trans women women are not sorry. trans women are yeah. um and she said are men. yeah. um and she said things like it's, you know, it's mutilation to transition a child. these are perfectly normal opinions for people to hold. legal . normal opinions for people to hold. legal. opinions. hold. these are legal. opinions. but even if they even if they weren't, even if they were extreme opinions, surely in a free have to be able free society, we have to be able to stand up everyone's right to stand up for everyone's right to stand up for everyone's right to they think. that's to say what they think. that's absolutely right. and and absolutely right. and i and i think, you the challenge think, you know, the challenge for speech advocates, for us as free speech advocates, i in many ways, we've sort i mean, in many ways, we've sort of game on easy of been playing the game on easy mode long because so mode for a long time because so many cases that we see many of the cases that we see are absurd. everyone are so patently absurd. everyone can see that. hang that can see that. hang on, that person should have been person should not have been arrested. person arrested. hang on. that person should something relatively saying something relatively normal expressing normal for expressing a relatively view relatively normal political view . to get better at . but we have to get better at fighting the more difficult cases. fighting the more difficult casand do fighting the more difficult cas and do you fighting the more difficult casand do you make of a lot >> and what do you make of a lot of people stick by this of people will stick by this idea that there is problem idea that there is no problem with culture that with cancel culture and that there is no problem, particularly universities particularly on universities with what do with free speech. what do you make of that? >> it's just delusional.

>> i mean, it's just delusional. i mean, you can it doesn't matter how many cases bring matter how many cases you bring to attention, they will to their attention, they will just it. just refuse to accept it. i think people do is they think what people do is they will find ways saying, oh, will find ways of saying, oh, this a free speech case, this isn't a free speech case, because about safety this isn't a free speech case, be something about safety this isn't a free speech case, be something that, it safety or something like that, right? this speech case this isn't a free speech case because it's really about discriminate mission. so you have be wary of that. have to be very wary of that. when people try and drag things off of speech, off the terrain of free speech, when essentially or it's when people essentially or it's harassment is another harassment is a is another one when essentially say that when people essentially say that words to pretend that words or try to pretend that words or try to pretend that words actions when they words are actions when they clearly course, clearly are not, of course, actions dealt with actions should be dealt with completely differently, the completely differently, and the final will final challenge, i suppose, will be won't it ? be big tech, won't it? >> what you make of it at the >> what do you make of it at the moment ? moment? >> big tech? i mean, there's some pros and cons. i mean, elon musk's takeover twitter has musk's takeover of twitter has been for free been a net positive for free speech. i'm going an speech. i'm not going to be an elon musk cheerleader and pretend the speech pretend that the free speech issue on or issue is solved, even on x or twitter , because it plainly issue is solved, even on x or twitterbeen,ause it plainly issue is solved, even on x or twitterbeen, um, it plainly issue is solved, even on x or twitterbeen, um, it pithatl issue is solved, even on x or twitterbeen, um, it that has hasn't been, um, but that has been positive. one thing been a positive. and one thing that's of it is the that's come out of it is the twitter files. now this year we saw that what's been going on for a couple of years, different things out. but for a couple of years, different thin year out. but for a couple of years, different thin year something out. but for a couple of years, different thin year something really)ut. but this year something really interesting where

this year something really intesawing where this year something really intesaw how where this year something really intesaw how twitter where this year something really intesaw how twitter was where this year something really intesaw how twitter was working we saw how twitter was working with stanford university. this and to determine what is mis and disinformation. and often some of the things that they were considering , disinformation or considering, disinformation or misinformation plainly misinformation were plainly true. they just had the wrong political outcome. so anthony fauci's genuine emails, for instance , caused a lot of instance, caused a lot of concern among these academics because they might undermine distrust in science, not because they're actually wrong, but because they're right. and it might give impression might give the wrong impression to people. >> that's >> i mean, that's very dangerous. ultimately, we >> i mean, that's very dang> i mean, that's very dang> i mean, that's very dang

untenable situation, entirely mainstream . opinions are being mainstream. opinions are being censored. >> absolutely. very scary stuff. all right, fraser myers, thanks so for joining all right, fraser myers, thanks so forjoining me tonight. so much for joining me tonight. thank next on free thank you. and next on free speech nation we're going to be heanng speech nation we're going to be hearing good news for free hearing some good news for free speech end 2023. after speech to end 2023. after a teacher in america won a landmark case, having fired landmark case, having been fired because avoided referring landmark case, having been fired b

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation . there was a win for free nation. there was a win for free speech in america this week when the virginia supreme court ruled it would reinstate a lawsuit alleging it was a violation of teacher peter fleming's right s to fire him for avoid the use of personal pronouns to describe one of his students, peter fleming was represented by adf international and lois mcclatchy , the senior legal communications officer at adf

uk, joins me now. lois, welcome to the show. oh, she hasn't turned up quite yet, but we will get lois on the line shortly. do you know about this case, jonathan? have you heard about this peter fleming? went this one? peter fleming? he went out of his way, actually, because social because of the social transitioning of the student to actually avoid saying pronouns at all. now, that strikes me as quite a cunning way of dealing . quite a cunning way of dealing. with it, right? >> it is quite a funny, passive aggressive, quite funny way. it's like almost like a sketch, isn't it? like not saying any , i isn't it? like not saying any, i suppose a bit, but, but, but what's worrying case what's worrying about the case was that in a sense, therefore he for he wasn't being punished for what he being what he said he was being being punished for what he did not say, which compelled speech, say, which is compelled speech, which and which is compelled speech. and i don't compelled which is compelled speech. and i don't man. compelled speech, man. >> that's that's how i learned about peterson. about jordan peterson. >> supposed to be >> that was supposed to be a jordan peterson person. can jordan peterson in person. i can do shapiro. do ben shapiro. >> actually, is >> well, actually, my name is ben i don't think ben shapiro, and i don't think you be driving very you should be driving very conservative down this height. that's as good as okay. that's about as good as okay. >> isn't an >> all right. this isn't an impersonation show, jonathan.

so, uh, luis, now, the thing about bill cosby. >> lewis schaffer. what do you make i mean, do you make of this? i mean, do you think you know, if you're think that, you know, if you're in a if you're a teacher in a, in a if you're a teacher in a, in a if you're a teacher in a, in a class and a pupil says, can you something you call me something else? and can are can you use pronouns that are inaccurate teacher, inaccurate for me as a teacher, you should able to say no, right? >> you should be able to say no. but should be able but also you should be able to say thing to say what is the nice thing to do? end of the day, do? at the end of the day, i know i seem like a horrible person. i do, but person. you do, i do, and but at the the day, if somebody the end of the day, if somebody wants to call you and you can, you call them they to wants to call you and you can, yotcalled. |em they to be called. >> say one your sons came >> so say one of your sons came home dad, i you home and said, dad, i want you to would you mind? >> um, you ponder on that. >> um, you ponder on that. >> going get >> we're going to get lois mcclatchey in from r.e.m. >> he's just happy they've called. >> f hear gm hear em." >> can you hear me? yes yes. hi, lois. apologies for the lois. uh, apologies for the technical there. technical difficulties there. can what just can you tell me what just happened? in the case of peter fleming, a bit fleming, it does seem a bit disturbing because had disturbing because he had actually way, actually gone out of his way, uh, so that uh, to avoid pronouns so that this an issue. isn't this wouldn't be an issue. isn't that right? >> well, the >> that's right. well, the government should be government should not be requiring that teachers affirm something they don't believe to be so simply to keep their be true. so simply to keep their jobs. that's definitely not a good situation for to us be in.

but in the case of peter fleming, treated very, fleming, he was treated very, very poorly. now he was a popular french teacher in his school. ironically, french being one of the languages we're getting gender right is very, very important. and he was a popular teacher. a student came to him and said that they wanted to him and said that they wanted to be referred to in a different genden to be referred to in a different gender. uh, they worked out a plan together where he would add, uh, address her in the name , um, uh, that was chosen, but he would not be able to change the language that he used to affirm a different ideology to which he believed both parties are very happy with this arrangement, but unfortunately, later down the line, when the school board got involved, they gave him an ultimatum. and they said, either you must, uh, change the way that you use pronouns to affirm something that you don't believe or essentially be fired. and he was not able to violate his conscience to change that. fortunately now, five years later and it's been a long haul

and long drag through the courts, through which time he has not been able to resume his teaching remember, teaching career. remember, finally , we have great finally, we have this great ruling from court which has ruling from the court which has upheld the right to religious freedom has given a very, freedom and has given a very, very strong ruling in favour of teachers being able to exercise their rights to freedom of speech. so that is a great ruling today. obviously, we wish that poor peter had never had to go through had never had go through this, had never had his destroyed by this his career destroyed by this moment. hope going forward moment. so we hope going forward that this can be a meaningful ruling that will impact many more teachers . more teachers. >> well, lois mcclatchy, thanks for being so concise on that. i'm sorry we're out of time, but thank you for joining i'm sorry we're out of time, but thank you forjoining me on the thank you for joining me on the show tonight . so there's plenty show tonight. so there's plenty more to come on free speech nafion more to come on free speech nation between now and 9:00. so please do not go anywhere at . all >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb

solar sponsors of weather on. gb news. hello there . news. hello there. >> good evening. i'm jonathan vautrey here with your gb news weather forecast provided by the met is plenty of met office. there is plenty of weather to keep us occupied over the course of this coming week, and starts off even and that starts off even on sunday evening this sunday evening and night. this band its way band of rain spreading its way across parts northern across parts of northern ireland, england, ireland, northern england, southwest scotland, even into parts of wales as well. the southeastern areas of england parts of wales as well. the sout hold em areas of england parts of wales as well. the sout hold on areas of england parts of wales as well. the sout hold on to eas of england parts of wales as well. the sout hold on to eafew england parts of wales as well. the sout hold on to eafew clearerd will hold on to a few clearer spells, and also the spells, and also in the northwest will see northwest of scotland will see some clear spells overnight that will allow temperatures to drop off single off down into mid. single figures you are figures also. but where you are stuck all that cloud stuck underneath all that cloud and be another mild and rain will be another mild night , not and rain will be another mild night, not seeing and rain will be another mild night , not seeing lower night, not seeing much lower than to 12 c. that rain will than 10 to 12 c. that rain will slowly push its way southwards as we head throughout the day, so some early so there will be some early brightness southeast, but brightness in the southeast, but the will tend to thicken the cloud will tend to thicken up here and into the up its way in here and into the afternoon. it's going to be parts into parts of northern ireland, into central that central areas of scotland that start to the sun poke its start to see the sun poke its way in, and the winds will also be easing in the north, but be easing out in the north, but still blustery england be easing out in the north, but stillwales blustery england be easing out in the north, but stillwales onceery england be easing out in the north, but stillwales once again. england be easing out in the north, but stillwales once again. generally, and wales once again. generally, temperatures for temperatures above average for the between 10 and

the time of year between 10 and 13 c. tuesday, our attention 13 c. on tuesday, our attention to next area of frontal to this next area of frontal systems that are going push systems that are going to push their way in the southwest, their way in from the southwest, so wales and so it's looking like wales and england that going to bear england that are going to bear the the rainfall on the brunt of the rainfall on tuesday very wet rush tuesday could be a very wet rush hour on hour period. first thing on the day. spray on the roads day. lots of spray on the roads when you are travelling. that will eventually clear its way off, behind you'll see off, and behind that you'll see those pushing in those sunny spells pushing in from northwest, but also from the northwest, but also with scattered showers. with some scattered showers. they wintry over the they could be wintry over the higher scotland . higher ground areas of scotland. it's sunshine and it's that theme of sunshine and showers will continue into showers that will continue into the half of the the second half of the week, with strong still with some strong winds still around at well. by around at times as well. but by that inside from that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers , sponsors of boxt boilers, sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> join us every night on gb news at 11 pm. for headline winners, which is three top comedians going through the next day's news stories . which is day's news stories. which is exactly what you need. because when the establishment has gone crazy , you some craziness crazy, you need some craziness to sense of it. so join us

to make sense of it. so join us at 11 pm. night on gb at 11 pm. every night on gb news the people's channel, britain's news. channel. >> there's plenty more still to come on free speech nation . this come on free speech nation. this week we'll be discussing the row in france over the showing of a painting of a nude woman to muslim pupils. and we're also going to talk about the concerning rise holocaust concerning rise in holocaust denial. and there'll another denial. and there'll be another chance wonderful chance for this wonderful audience grill myself, audience to grill myself, jonathan and louis. but let's get a news update first from polly . polly middlehurst. >> andrew, thank you and good evening to you. well, the top story from the newsroom tonight is that the home office says it does have robust plans place does have robust plans in place for flights to go to for migrant flights to go to rwanda, following reports that some airlines are refusing to take the government's take part in the government's illegal migration policy. it's after the deputy prime minister

said rishi sunak was right to warn that illegal migration could overwhelm european states. oliver dowden insisted the government's rwanda plan will work and is an essential step towards getting a grip on the problem . problem. >> we will make sure that we have the right piece of legislation. it's not about keeping one part of the party happy or another part of the happy or another part of the happy look, i'm i'm confident that the prime minister has looked at this very carefully and possible and has got the best possible measures. but if there are ways of improving further, just as of improving it further, just as with of legislation , with any piece of legislation, we'll backbench we'll work with backbench members parliament, including members of parliament, including conservatives, we can make conservatives, if we can make it even better. course we'll do even better. of course we'll do that. >> oliver dowden now >> but oliver dowden now baroness michelle has baroness michelle mone, has admitted that she failed to reveal her links to a company which supplied ppe gowns to the nhs during the covid 19 pandemic. medpro is the company concerned its currently being investigated by the national crime agency and the department of health is taking action over

a breach of contract. she told the bbc that she made an error by not revealing her links to the company, which in the end meant her husband's trust received around £60 million of taxpayers money. but she also said that lying to the media wasn't a crime in international news, and there's been growing pressure on israel, with david cameron joining germany's foreign affairs minister in calling for a ceasefire in gaza . calling for a ceasefire in gaza. in a joint article in the sunday times newspaper today, the new foreign secretary warned that too many civilians have lost their lives . and he said it's their lives. and he said it's time for a sustained ceasefire. the intervention is a significant shift in the government's tone on israel's war against hamas. government's tone on israel's war against hamas . a couple have war against hamas. a couple have become one of the first same sex partnerships to receive a blessing at a church of england service, the prayers of love and faith , now allowed to be used in faith, now allowed to be used in general services were given to catherine bond and jane pierce

this morning the house of bishops sanctioned the blessings just days ago, but there's been no legislative change. it remains a voluntary decision for ministers , as wet weather is on ministers, as wet weather is on the way for scotland. the met office issuing an amber weather warning that means there could be a danger to life . up to eight be a danger to life. up to eight inches of rain was forecast for this weekend. more is on its way and experts are saying it will cause travel disruption, flooding and possible landslides . people are being urged to take great care . and finally, great care. and finally, a cheese that's been dubbed brutal for its smell is proving very popular this christmas. it's called . the minger. it's made in called. the minger. it's made in the highlands of scotland. it's now on sale in british supermarkets for the first time. despite its extreme smell . while despite its extreme smell. while the maker of the cheese agree there's no objective way to know if the minger is the punchiest cheese ever made. he thinks it pretty much could be this is gb

news across the uk on tv , in news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play on your smart speaker by saying play gb news this is britain's news channel . news channel. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. so let's get some more questions from this delightful studio audience. our first question comes from marcus. where's marcus? hi. marcus? hello hi. >> uh, was elon musk right to reinstate alex jones? well this has been an interesting one. >> uh, we all remember alex jones was kicked off twitter, which has now become ex, um, and he's considered a very controversial figure. now, i believe that elon musk put up a sort of poll and sort of said to the crowd, you know, what do you think? and would make any think? and he would make any decision that decided decision that we decided and people infowars people said that the infowars star, come star, alex jones should come back. is controversial, back. but this is controversial, isn't it, jonathan? because alex

jones has advanced some jones has said has advanced some very conspiracy very strange conspiracy theories, some quite horrible ones , about how the hook ones, about how the sandy hook massacre happen , things massacre didn't happen, things likeyeah, sandy was >> yeah, the sandy hook was a real misstep. absolutely. that misstep exaggeration , misstep was under exaggeration, that but i've that that was bad. but i've been, you know, and so should not have brought him back. >> um, i don't necessarily think so. 50. >> so. >> i not that i think i'm really struggling today , aren't you. struggling today, aren't you. yeah. no. okay. i'll slow down. i think it's okay that they brought him back. you know, you don't have to follow him you brought him back. you know, you don't like; to follow him you brought him back. you know, you don't like; to f(|fow him you brought him back. you know, you don't like; to f( if yomim you brought him back. you know, you don't like; to f( if you think you brought him back. you know, you don't like; to f( if you think his don't like him. if you think his opinions right opinions are. he's been right about things. right about some things. he was right about some things. he was right about epstein's island ten years ago. bnng about epstein's island ten years ago. bring that ago. he was trying to bring that to attention. to people's attention. >> isn't the >> well, i suppose, isn't the point. whether you point. not whether whether you agree not, agree with alex jones or not, because think that's because i actually think that's irrelevant. i the point is irrelevant. i think the point is that say you're a social that if you say you're a social media to media platform that is open to anyone, to anyone anyone, then be open to anyone and be to all opinions. and be open to all opinions. >> . and if he's not >> sure. and if he's not breaking any laws, then yeah, it's a a private platform. it's a it's a private platform. elon them back he wants. >> but but elon knew that >> but but elon musk knew that by he would actually >> but but elon musk knew that by the he would actually >> but but elon musk knew that by the potentiald actually >> but but elon musk knew that by the potential for:tually >> but but elon musk knew that by the potential for twitter >> but but elon musk knew that be the potential for twitter >> but but elon musk knew that be to the potential for twitter >> but but elon musk knew that be to accrue )tential for twitter >> but but elon musk knew that be to accrue advertisers. “witter or x to accrue advertisers. so actually he's taking a

principled stance here isn't he? whether you agree with alex jones which say, jones or not, which like i say, i don't think is relevant here. >> he, think that >> um, i think he, i think that advertiser battle is lost . well, advertiser battle is lost. well, it is lost now because elon musk has said in a recent interview to advertisers who threatened to boycott him, he said, go f yourself, right? >> no way they're going >> there's no way they're going to to the platform now. to come to the platform now. >> there they >> well, there might be they might like might just think, well, we like the platform. the thing about this, it's lost. it's this, i think it's lost. it's similar to here at news it's similar to here at gb news it's like we're trying to be nice to the advertisers . sainsbury's the advertisers. sainsbury's isn't with us, so isn't advertising with us, so why should we try to be nice. so please come and advertise on gb news should, should news now. we should, we should be like elon musk and just say screw . yeah. we don't need screw you. yeah. we don't need your we'd your money. yeah, well we we'd like know, well like it. and you know, well actually very different actually that's a very different issue i think issue lewis, because i think the advertising this advertising boycott against this channel is completely unjust and has by crazy has been stirred up by crazy activists who have that activists who have claimed that the is something that it the channel is something that it isn't. >> i mean, they never watch it. it's like they don't what it's like they don't know what it criticising. it's it is they're criticising. it's absolutely it is they're criticising. it's absolutetwitter because >> and twitter is unjust because twitter is just a platform. there are horrible people. there

are good people on it. well, that's right. so it's also that's right. and so it's also unjust with them the when all unjust with them at the when all the chickens have been plucked, the chickens have been plucked, the fact is, is that twitter x is way more interesting than any other, any other platform except for gb news, except for gb news. yes. and let them have a go at it. no one's, no one's talking about what's on threads which is facebook. >> and elon calls himself a free speech absolutist and he is shown that he is . and so yeah. shown that he is. and so yeah. okay. >> interesting. well let's move on to a question from phil, on now to a question from phil, where is phil? hi. >> um, support declining for >> um, is support declining for lgb plus groups ? lgb plus groups? >> i'm glad you said the whole thing. well you did. it should be lgbt. q plus two s plus. anyway, don't worry about it. >> what's a2s2s2s is two spirit. >> what's a2s2s2s is two spirit. >> yes. anyway, this is actually an interesting story that broke this week apparently , this week that apparently, according report from the according to a report from the pubuc according to a report from the public religion research institute, support for gay and transgender people is declining amongst the american public. i

don't think we should be all that surprised about this personally. i mean, the problem is we've let's is that we've had, well, let's call tcu , plus activists call it tcu, plus activists pushing incredibly divisive policies being really hostile activists have been threatening people with violence. police have been arresting people for misgendering and all sorts of stuff. when you get activists behaving like this, turns behaving like this, it turns people from cause . people away from their cause. we've this just stop we've seen this with just stop oil, same . same sort oil, haven't we? same. same sort of thing. >> um, uh, matey over there was saying about the veganism thing is that when you have very sort of argumentative is that when you have very sort of it's argumentative is that when you have very sort of it's goingjumentative is that when you have very sort of it's goingjurturnative people, it's going to turn people, it's going to turn people you. so it's an people off you. so it's an opfics people off you. so it's an optics thing. >> i mean, that's thing. >> i mean, that's the thing. i mean, so many, you know, whenever i get a tweet that either threatens death whenever i get a tweet that eit says hreatens death whenever i get a tweet that eitsays something death whenever i get a tweet that eitsays something really, death whenever i get a tweet that eitsays something really, really or says something really, really horrible, they're horrible, i know that they're going to have pronouns in their bio. click bio. i don't even have to click through. absolutely. through. it's just absolutely. it's the case, right? it's always the case, right? i've proven wrong i've never been proven wrong with is something with that. so there is something essentially within essentially aggressive within the trans activist movement . the trans activist movement. there's a of a relishing of there's a kind of a relishing of bullying , there's a kind of a relishing of bullying, and that puts there's a kind of a relishing of bullying , and that puts people bullying, and that puts people off. and the problem with that is then also they're pushing is then and also they're pushing within really sexually within schools really sexually explicit and explicit material for kids and stuff like that. and the problem

with is people with that is gay people get tagged people this is tagged in. people think this is gay this. it's not gay people doing this. it's not it's at all. it's the it's not that at all. it's the activists. activists activists. it's trans activists who, also who, by the way, also don't represent people, should say. >> right, right. and you've also seen have like the lgb seen, um, you have like the lgb alliance s they've tried to almost distance themselves because of negative because of this negative association right to association and their right to do so. >> e because interest >> right. because the interest of same sex attracted people is not interest not the same as the interest of people they people who believe they have a gendered soul. it's a totally different. even connected. >> found it connected. >> i've always found it a bit cunous >> i've always found it a bit curious how so different, curious how so many different, um, are being contained um, things are being contained into yeah, it's very into one group. yeah, it's very odd. feels a bit, odd. that almost feels a bit, um, patronising to say that. oh, you guys are all the same. you all the interest. all have the same interest. well, not. well, of course not. >> exactly. >> no, exactly. >> no, exactly. >> two people. >> no, exactly. >> do two people. >> no, exactly. >> do knoweople. >> no, exactly. >> do know that, . >> no, exactly. >> do know that, don't you, >> do you know that, don't you, lewis? it. lewis? i mean, i know it. >> yeah, i it. it's like. >> yeah, i know it. it's like. it's like raisins, love it's like i like raisins, i love raisins, i mean, i try not to eat because they're so eat them because they're so addictive moorish, addictive and they're moorish, but in but i don't like them in my fresh salad. and i'm fresh fruit salad. and i'm sensing metaphor here. and sensing a metaphor here. and that's, it is a metaphor. and that's, it is a metaphor. and that's what the whatever is , that's what the whatever it is, whatever all those letters are, is the tea is basically raisins

being lumped in with the fresh fruits or vice versa, or the fresh fruit. >> you're calling me a fruit? >> you're calling me a fruit? >> yes. i'm using you said it. there >> i know exactly what you're trying to say here. yeah, i was just to. trying to say here. yeah, i was justi'm to. trying to say here. yeah, i was justi'm making your point. >> i'm making your point. i'm making i your making my point. i made your point. of the point. but at the end of the day, household, we're more point. but at the end of the day,friendly. ousehold, we're more point. but at the end of the day,friendly. you hold, we're more point. but at the end of the day,friendly. you are i, we're more point. but at the end of the day,friendly. you are . we're more gay friendly. you are. >> i'm glad to hear it. anyway let's move on to another question. now. this is from matthew. where's matthew? yeah. hello. good evening. >> uh, do you think great britain should return the elgin marbles to greece? >> interesting, >> that's very interesting, matthew . i had conversation matthew. i had a conversation with jenkins , an with tiffany jenkins, an academic, the show. academic, last week on the show. she was making. was being she was making. she was being very actually, very balanced, actually, but i think that very balanced, actually, but i thi|should that very balanced, actually, but i thi|should not that very balanced, actually, but i thi|should not return that very balanced, actually, but i thi|should not return them.it very balanced, actually, but i thi|should not return them. do we should not return them. do you about this? you have a view about this? >> i'm not sure really, but >> um, i'm not sure really, but i correct me if i'm wrong . i i correct me if i'm wrong. i thought lord elgin, uh, actually purchased them from the ottomans , so he he. >> yes, absolutely. he had permission . yeah well, it's a permission. yeah well, it's a tncky permission. yeah well, it's a tricky one, isn't it? because the ottoman empire were also colonisers and, you know, they at the time had the rights .

at the time had the rights. i suppose you'd call them in modern parlance. and they did give lord elgin the right to, to take marbles. so there's take the marbles. so there's a big debate, but this is big sort of debate, but this is all up again because all cleared up again because lord former lord frost, who's the former brexit minister, saying brexit minister, is now saying that should hand the elgin that we should hand the elgin marbles to greece . i'm torn marbles back to greece. i'm torn on this. uh, louis, i genuinely am, because the one hand, am, because on the one hand, i recognise having them in recognise that having them in the british museum wonderful the british museum is wonderful because them because we can go and see them whenever want. are whenever we want. they are incredible you incredible things to see. you see a really interesting see them in a really interesting context the context within within the british fact , had british museum and in fact, had elgin the marbles, elgin not taken the marbles, they have been they would have been quite severely there's severely damaged. and there's all sorts of arguments for why we them the uk. we should keep them in the uk. but other hand, i've been we should keep them in the uk. buthe other hand, i've been we should keep them in the uk. buthe acropolisr hand, i've been we should keep them in the uk. buthe acropolis museum ve been we should keep them in the uk. buthe acropolis museum in been to the acropolis museum in athens the gaps . athens and i can see the gaps. you know, they have they have sort of plaster casts to show what's missing. and i kind of felt would be if they felt it would be nice if they were all together again, and i might to appreciate them might be able to appreciate them more in athens, know, with more in athens, you know, with the acropolis from the view of the acropolis from the view of the acropolis from the acropolis museum, it artistically, would artistically, i think that would be satisfying . where do you be more satisfying. where do you stand well, i, i stand stand on this? well, i, i stand on being nice and they. but

what's nicer to keep the marbles here so that they can be, uh , here so that they can be, uh, seen by so many people or return them to greece so they can be seen by people there. >> greek people, we >> they these greek people, we need them as our friends. yes. they're one of our few friends. there right next to us. every single olympic games , great single olympic games, great britain, greece . so we're gonna britain, greece. so we're gonna have to deal with them. >> so your argument is we return the marbles, we need them. >> they were. they were >> and they were. they were taken by the ottomans, who were the greek people. the enemies of the greek people. so ottomans have a right so did the ottomans have a right to first place? to take them in the first place? maybe didn't . the to take them in the first place? maybe didn't. the end . maybe they didn't. at the end. yes, yes, we should . we should yes, yes, we should. we should return the marbles. we should. we should do is we should give it back to them and then say, can we hold on to it for a little bit longer? >> but louis. okay, but if you start doing that and saying, why don't you listen? >> because the people can sense some reason they're no. >> because the people can sense sonyeah.son they're no. >> because the people can sense sonyeah. there'sy're no. >> because the people can sense sonyeah. there'sy're nothere's >> yeah. there's some there's a glimmer reason in what you're glimmer of reason in what you're saying. it's a saying. but louis but it's a slippery slope, isn't it? because you that because if you say that all museums repatriate museums have to repatriate

everything have, the everything that they have, the british would be empty, british museum would be empty, for they for one thing, because they plundered right. plundered quite a lot. right. and we so many and that's why we have so many great look at. right. great things to look at. right. so you think that every great things to look at. right. so y0|worldwidet every great things to look at. right. so y0|worldwide should return museum worldwide should return everything that it owns or taken? >> you making me change my >> are you making me change my position on this? i'm making position on this? i'm not making you. with you that it's you. i agree with you that it's better at the british museum. the reason why the parthenon. first of all, they called the elgin marbles, which a elgin marbles, which is such a misnomer. it'sjust, um, named misnomer. it's just, um, named after guy on the after some guy there on the parthenon. everybody knows parthenon. yeah. everybody knows the this the parthenon. screw this guy, elgin. and i've got. elgin. whatever and i've got. i have family members up in elgin. and screw those people. >> now, that's a different. that's a place. >> sorry. there's >> oh, sorry. there's a guy. >> oh, sorry. there's a guy. >> but you are right. >> and but you are right. >> and but you are right. >> it's actually the fact that they are at the british museum is like a travelling road show for greece. it makes greece actually seem like an important place . still, when they're place. still, when they're totally even more relevant than we english people are. >> okay, there we go. that's lewis's idea that, uh, english people are irrelevant, and greeks too. >> what if the greeks had them every other weekend? that could .

every other weekend? that could. be a thing. >> actually, no, that might be a way to do it. like with the divorced family. with the kids? way to do it. like with the divor> that's interesting. >> you can have anybody alive or dead except except dead except churchill, except churchill, except churchill. >> who would you bring back? >> who would you bring back? >> oh, macmillan . >> oh, harold macmillan. >> oh, harold macmillan. >> okay. >> ah, okay. >> ah, okay. >> you never so good. he >> you never had it so good. he should have said you will never >> you never had it so good. he shoulit have said you will never >> you never had it so good. he shoulit so ve said you will never >> you never had it so good. he shoulit so good.i you will never have it so good. >> well, i think i would quite like the duke of wellington to come you he was an come back. you know, he was an oddball. , uh, he kept a oddball. he had, uh, he kept a dagger umbrella. had dagger in his umbrella. he had an umbrella disguise. >> disraeli. good one. >> benjamin disraeli. good one. >> benjamin disraeli. good one. >> yeah. the jewish guy . >> benjamin disraeli. good one. >> yeah. the jewish guy. eddie. >> yeah. the jewish guy. eddie. >> yeah. the jewish guy. eddie. >> yeah. ah i changed my mind. i thought that's why you were

suggesting. no, ijust thought that's why you were suggesting. no, i just wanted to sound smart. >> oh, okay. uh, chaucer. liz truss , liz truss. truss, liz truss. >> yeah, she's a buddy of mine now. yeah >> you met her the other night. >> you met her the other night. >> yeah, yeah, yeah, i think liz truss actually should be given another bad truss actually should be given anc her. bad for her. >> she did not have enough time to really get to grips with the with, was with, you know. yeah. she was chased implementing chased out just for implementing that that mini—budget, which i think worked think actually could have worked out. they'd have stuck out. yeah. if they'd have stuck with it. >> and know, actually >> and you know, i actually agree because, agree with you, andrew, because, you get in and she'd you know, she'd get in and she'd be angry . she, she'd be as angry be angry. she, she'd be as angry as donald trump is today, and she'd be she, she'd be she would do all the things that a conservative party should do and all the things she might not have the time where they have done at the time where they think wrong. have done at the time where they thirshe wrong. have done at the time where they thirshe was wrong. have done at the time where they thirshe was she vrong. have done at the time where they thirshe was she was]. have done at the time where they thirshe was she was too >> she was she was too conservative. yeah. >> favourite, favourite >> my favourite, my favourite is golda that be. >> my favourite, my favourite is golshe that be. >> my favourite, my favourite is golshe was that be. >> my favourite, my favourite is golshe was athat be. >> my favourite, my favourite is golshe was a tough be. >> my favourite, my favourite is golshe was a tough woman. the >> she was a tough woman. the president of israel. yeah. a different country. >> yeah, was right. >> but yeah, i was right. >> but yeah, i was right. >> say. >> you did say. >> you did say. >> you did say. >> you say prime minister >> you did say prime minister you minister. you didn't say prime minister. >> , um, uh, you didn't say prime minister. >> , um, uh, gordon >> what about, um, uh, gordon brown? >> what about, um, uh, gordon brow mean , would be quite >> i mean, would be quite interesting. used interesting. you know, he used to eat four kit—kats a day. >> did . >> he did. >> he did. >> and i think for that reason

alone, we should give him another go. alone, we should give him anothat's). made his eye all wonky. >> let's get a question from alan. are same alan. where's alan? are same alan. where's alan? are same alan before. hi, guys. alan as before. hi, guys. >> again ? uh, to >> me again? uh, uh, sorry to put this one on you. i know your comedians got a serious political question you. now political question for you. now uh, was actually uh, if rishi sunak was actually the cat in number 10, how many political lives would he have left? >> yeah , it's interesting >> yeah, it's interesting because it does. >> it does strike me that rishi sunak stays a number, i think. i just think i just don't think he has any like, believes in reincarnation. >> right. as part of his part of his religion. does he. yeah. he's celebrating hindu. he's he's celebrating a hindu. >> know about his >> i don't know about his personal beliefs, but if you say so, jonathan. >> that's. well, you heard it here first. yeah. think here first. yeah. yeah, i think i could be wrong. think he's i could be wrong. i think he's he's he? uh, as he's made, hasn't he? uh, as rishi made a lot of mistakes , rishi made a lot of mistakes, um, lot of money um, printed quite a lot of money dunng during the lockdown. okay. that was know, a bit. was you know, a bit. >> he behaved like a proper socialist lockdown. >> he behaved like a proper soc he st lockdown. >> he behaved like a proper soc he st he lockdown. >> he behaved like a proper soc he st he went down. >> he behaved like a proper soc he st he went .own. >> he behaved like a proper soc hest he went. he|. >> he behaved like a proper soc he st he went . he went full >> he did. he went. he went full helicopter ride . yeah. it was helicopter ride. yeah. it was a it was a tough time for him but. and what do i think i was about

to do a of norcott to do a bunch of geoff norcott jokes. i decided against it because his that his jokes. because they his that his jokes. >> so don't do that . no. >> so don't do that. no. >> so don't do that. no. >> richie's i don't really >> richie's fine. i don't really know much about him, but >> richie's fine. i don't really knovbless much about him, but >> richie's fine. i don't really knovbless him] about him, but god bless him. >> he seems like a guy. >> he seems like a nice guy. but what is, i just don't what i mean is, ijust don't think been a particularly think he's been a particularly successful think he's been a particularly successtdon't think so. i think >> no, i don't think so. i think he sort of walking into a he was sort of walking into a losing well, losing battle, though. well, also, know, you also, he's not you know, you need charge need a conservative in charge of the i need a conservative in charge of thei don't that's >> i don't think that's controversial. is it? >> not it's not >> no, it's not and it's not that he's done some wrong things. he is wrong. he is wrong for conservative party. he's things. he is wrong. he is wrong fohe's conservative party. he's things. he is wrong. he is wrong fohe's azonservative party. he's things. he is wrong. he is wrong fohe's a globalist.e party. he's a he's a globalist. >> team world. >> eu— f you would say world. >> you would say that >> i knew you would say that for. >> the for. >> of the day, >> and at the end of the day, the republican, the the people, the republican, the conservative want the people, the republican, the c> yeah. that's what i was >> yeah. that's not what i was asking. thrown asking. you've completely thrown me field me there with his left field prognostication. trump prognostication. i think trump i think trump is how the two of them. >> you think trump's going to die? yeah i was going to say i

don't know. >> well, not that received a >> well, not that i received a phone about this. phone call about this. >> well, you know, if something happens the are happens to trump, the fbi are going giving you a phone call. >> i know, as i said, really, it's possible they're already outside his house. >> i have a my gut >> ijust have i have a my gut feeling it's not it's not feeling is it's not as it's not going it's not going to be going to it's not going to be what even if even because everyone's focusing on the democrats, are the democrats, what are the democrats, what are the democrats do? yeah, but democrats going to do? yeah, but there's a lot of room there's a there's a lot of room in game. it's over a year in this game. it's over a year before the election or almost a yeah the before the election or almost a year. the might be >> before the it might not be biden then. >> before the it might not be biden tiif1. >> before the it might not be biden tiif you look at donald >> and if you look at donald trump mean doesn't look trump i mean he doesn't look that he's a he looks that healthy. he's a he looks all he all right all loaded. he looks all right compared exactly compared to biden. yeah. exactly >> but because biden can't speak . yeah. >> can't speak. but that doesn't mean isn't you know mean that trump isn't you know trump's the golf course. mean that trump isn't you know tru1well, the golf course. mean that trump isn't you know tru1well, whye golf course. mean that trump isn't you know tru1well, why do olf course. mean that trump isn't you know tru1well, why do they)urse. mean that trump isn't you know tru1well, why do they always have >> well, why do they always have elderly why not just elderly statesmen? why not just get younger? elderly statesmen? why not just get not younger? elderly statesmen? why not just get not saying younger? elderly statesmen? why not just get not saying like younger? elderly statesmen? why not just get not saying like someone nger? i'm not saying like someone in their someone in their 30s or 40s, but someone in their 30s or 40s, but someone in their do it. someone their 60s would do it. someone a bit run desantis. bit spry. uh, a run desantis. >> unfortunately . >> unfortunately. unfortunately. when you have sort of an open democracy, it doesn't work out. the way. no, we want it to. no.

>> that's true. right. i think they should get younger people anyway. being ageist . i anyway. i'm not being ageist. i just know, when just think, you know, when there's of expiring, uh, there's a risk of expiring, uh, you consider an election a harder prospect, doesn't it? okay, look, next up on free speech nation. we'll two speech nation. we'll have two guests discuss the row guests here to discuss the row which erupted in france when muslim pupils were shown a 17th century nude women century painting of nude women in an class. see you in a in an art class. see you in a moment .

at. home >> you're listening to tv, news, radio. welcome back to free speech nation with me . speech nation with me. >> andrew doyle, a teacher . in >> andrew doyle, a teacher. in france, says she fears for her life after showing a 17th century renaissance painting to her pupils during the class. it was a painting of diana and actaeon. it depicts nudes, women , nude, nude women and complaints were made by some muslim parents. meanwhile all staff members went on strike on monday in solidarity with the teacher involved. the incident

occurred in the same, uh, in the same week that teenagers same week that six teenagers were convicted for their role in the 2020 killing of teacher samuel paty , who they identified samuel paty, who they identified to a radicalised islamist. so joining me to discuss this, the human rights activist and businessman shakeel afsar and the artist and author alexander adams welcome both to the show. shakeel, i want to come to you first. a lot of people are concerned because they would say that in an art class, in a school, you would have to show your works of art that will feature nudity, that it's a kind your works of art that will fe.inevitable y, that it's a kind your works of art that will fe.inevitable aspectit's a kind your works of art that will fe.inevitable aspect of, a kind your works of art that will fe.inevitable aspect of, of kind of inevitable aspect of, of western artistic do you western artistic culture. do you take that view or do you think the teacher should have been more mindful of some of the sensibilities of the pupils in the ? the class? >> well, absolutely. i think with the current situation that's happening in france and the that muslims being the fact that muslims are being vilified and discriminated by the government, i think that the school have had a bit school should have had a bit more sensitivity in pushing this forward. fact that we forward. the simple fact that we see this happening the united see this happening in the united kingdom with the extreme lgbt

discrimination that's being forced on our children by individual teachers. unfortunately, the personal beliefs, the personal values and the personal stance of a teacher is not what our children should be privy to. our children should be privy to. our children should be privy to information that shows them about the great society they live in, without infringing on their morals, values, and most importantly , values, and most importantly, religious convictions . religious convictions. >> do you accept the point that when you're learning about art and learning about western art in particular, that some of the most important significant most important and significant artworks nudity ? if artworks do feature nudity? if you take the sistine chapel , for you take the sistine chapel, for instance, michelangelo's david, i mean, surely, uh, children ought to be introduced to great art when the opportunity arises . art when the opportunity arises. >> yeah, well, look, there should be, uh, introduced to >> yeah, well, look, there everything that represents the great societies that we live in. but what we must remember if parents have concerns in regards to age appropriateness, and we must remember that this is not only a muslim issue , this is only a muslim issue, this is actually abrahamic faith actually a abrahamic faith issue. a surrounding

issue. this is a surrounding people who hold their religion very close to their heart, whether they be christians, jews or muslims. you know, we should educate our children. we should, uh, know, them about uh, you know, teach them about the societies that we uh, you know, teach them about the but societies that we uh, you know, teach them about the but like :ieties that we uh, you know, teach them about the but like i;ties that we uh, you know, teach them about the but like i saidthat we uh, you know, teach them about the but like i said before, we have. but like i said before, we must infringe on the must not infringe on the parents, you know, uh, parents concerns and the fact that, you know, the parents, right, for age appropriateness. you know, it's should the children it's we should the children should be learning about everything in a way that is not upsetting the main stakeholders in any school, which is the parents and the students . parents and the students. >> yes. alexander addams, um, do you take shaquille's point that that nude that actually just nude paintings, even it is great paintings, even if it is a great work from the 17th work of art from the 17th century, that that is age inappropriate? do you think that's inappropriate? do you think tha um , not quite. >> um, not quite. >> um, not quite. >> i think that nudity in itself isn't so much of a problem. i think sex realised nudity. so there are certain classical works of art that are paintings or , or um, particularly greek or, or um, particularly greek vases , which are actually vases, which are actually extremely sexually explicit . and extremely sexually explicit. and i would say that these are perhaps not appropriate, but i

think um, uh , paintings think that, um, uh, paintings of, um, myths or biblical scenes, which include aspects of nudity, um, such as you can see on the screen at the moment, they are not, um, sexually explicit. so i think that they should be included. i think that children, , of all faiths need children, um, of all faiths need to be exposed to this kind of art because it helps to explain the situation they're in, because they will go out into their cities , um, and they will their cities, um, and they will see these sculptures out in pubuc see these sculptures out in public forums. they will see them on public they them on public buildings. they will fountains. will see them on, um, fountains. and for example . so they and for example. so they really need know what art these need to know what art these depict and what they mean. they may decide that they are sinful and they may decide that they reject they dislike and they may decide that they reject things, they dislike and they may decide that they reject things, but/ dislike and they may decide that they reject things, but they ike and they may decide that they reject things, but they need to these things, but they need to be educated first, be educated about them first, and their and then they can make their decision to according their own personal beliefs , logic, or just personal beliefs, logic, or just their cultural beliefs, their religion . religion. >> so, shaquille, do you do you accept this point that, you know, when it comes to the causing of offence, which is, i think, partly what you're talking about, that sometimes we

can't provisions can't possibly make provisions of that kind. for instance, some pupils have religious of that kind. for instance, some pupils that have religious of that kind. for instance, some pupils that find religious of that kind. for instance, some pupils that find the gious of that kind. for instance, some pupils that find the theory of beliefs that find the theory of evolution offensive , but does evolution offensive, but does that mean that we ought to not teach the theory of evolution in science schools? no science classes in schools? no no, what i kind of concur with what your other guest is saying, but what my point is that if parents have issues in regards to age appropriateness, i'm not saying that shouldn't be saying that it shouldn't be taught, but it should be taught in a stage way where parents feel that their are feel that their children are at an understand what an age to understand what they're seen. they're being seen. >> lot of the time that what >> a lot of the time that what we understand people from we must understand people from abrahamic , the abrahamic faiths, religions, the jewish the christian jewish community, the christian community and the muslim community and the muslim community and the muslim community a conversation community have a conversation about sexuality with their children at very late later stage than other communities. and this is something that we must respect. the fact that we live in a society where we should be catering for all people. this people. and we've seen this happen before. this the teacher might have felt that she was doing nothing wrong, he was doing nothing wrong, or he was doing nothing wrong, or he was doing wrong. we've doing nothing wrong, or he was dointhe wrong. we've doing nothing wrong, or he was dointhe same wrong. we've doing nothing wrong, or he was dointhe same issue]. we've doing nothing wrong, or he was dointhe same issue with we've doing nothing wrong, or he was dointhe same issue with the 've had the same issue with the rampant lgbt indoctrination

where children, teachers felt that on the on the guise of equality, it was okay to teach children that a boy can become a girl. a girl can become a boy. so this is it's all for me in regards to it's about age appropriateness and most importantly , parental concerns. importantly, parental concerns. if parents have concerns, those concerns shouldn't be likened with extremist terrorist attacks that have took previously. you know, parents have a right to speak without, you know, linking them to incidents that have happenedin them to incidents that have happened in the past. unfortunately, it then leaves the parents to be open to be, you know, discriminated , you you know, discriminated, you know, basis whatsoever . know, under no basis whatsoever. >> i suppose alexander , is there >> i suppose alexander, is there a distinction to be drawn here between, uh, at what shaquille is describing, which is the indoctrination of students into belief systems that their families may not hold, such as the idea that human beings can change sex, which is obviously a belief system. and what it means, what art is all about. i mean, art is not about the propaganda of belief systems . propaganda of belief systems. art is something completely

different, isn't that distinction something that we would be wise to draw ? would be wise to draw? >> um, yes. and no. >>— >> um, yes. and no. >> i mean, i think it's very difficult to divorce politics from art, because you'll find that a lot of was made that a lot of art that was made with reference to supposedly classical, classical myths or portraits are , for example, portraits are, for example, commissioned by very powerful people to display their wealth and to say that, you know, our dynasty is the correct dynasty to rule this particular country and so forth. so there is a there an element of politics there is an element of politics in art. i agree that, um in all art. but i agree that, um , art can be appreciated largely without politics. but you do need that, um, informed information . you do need to be information. you do need to be led into this by an educator, and that it's absolutely . and it and that it's absolutely. and it bleeds out into all areas. so, for example, leonardo da vinci's vitruvian man, which is the drawing of the man with his arms and legs outspread. this is an example . not only of the example of. not only of the renaissance art, but of humanism of the beginning of the scientific method. and so forth. and it's a key image in the history of western culture. so

it needs to be shown . but it needs to be shown. but obviously, um, yes , but it's obviously, um, yes, but it's obviously, um, yes, but it's obviously a nude figure. i think the problem is that once you start taking into account, um , start taking into account, um, the abrahamic faiths , um, which the abrahamic faiths, um, which obviously i'm sort of very sympathetic towards , um, you sympathetic towards, um, you also you come up against something which is that there is a prescription against graven images in all in all the three religions. so it says that you must not depict anything at all. so if you went with the most conservative approach from jews, muslims and christians, then you would not have any art taught or displayed in schools at all, which i think would be a problem. >> i think this would be very difficult. uh, shaquille , can i difficult. uh, shaquille, can i just ask you about that? because i think teacher, would i think as a teacher, i would struggle anticipate that the struggle to anticipate that the kind of that we're talking kind of image that we're talking about, that century about, that 17th century painting and diana and painting of diana and diana and actaeon, i see that picture, and i would never anticipate that that would cause offence because , as alexander says, it's not a sexualised image. um, so what

would your view be? would it be that teachers ought to be hyper cautious, that if there's any nudny cautious, that if there's any nudity whatsoever, they should run that past the parents first? i mean, how would this work on a practical i mean, how would this work on a prawell, a practical basis , >> well, on a practical basis, you know, they could simply if they that they have they can identify that they have a full of abraham faith a class full of abraham faith students, they can be you know, mindful to the religious , uh, mindful to the religious, uh, concerns that those students have. you know, you can show an image without actually showing a certain parts of that image that they might find offensive. so there are ways to depict art, and there are ways to show the children the vibrant art that exists society without exists in our society without actually offending a actually offending them. if a group people are feeling group of people are feeling offended and are feeling that their religious beliefs are not being adhered to by them, looking at a specific picture, surely society, as a, you surely as a society, as a, you know , an open marketplace of know, an open marketplace of views , we would cater for these views, we would cater for these people because they people because what they are only the fact that it only asking is the fact that it is their religion . and i is against their religion. and i understand that teachers are understand that the teachers are only that they want to only asking that they want to show this vibrant art and surely

we meet somewhere in the we can meet somewhere in the midpoint know, shouldn't midpoint. you know, it shouldn't just see this. just be. you have to see this. and that is only it. surely in a society and you know, human society and as you know, human as can learn to live and as we can learn to live and coexist with one another and appreciate understand appreciate and understand each other's . other's concerns. >> does it trouble you at all, shaquille, so often in shaquille, that so often in these cases , uh, it escalates these cases, uh, it escalates into . big arguments where into these. big arguments where there are threats and people feel that their lives are endangered . and we saw this in endangered. and we saw this in the batley grammar school, of course, event and that course, of event and that that teacher in as a teacher is still in hiding as a result of complaints from religious does religious groups. does it concern that we, end concern you that that we, we end up that situation up in that kind of situation where where think that where where people think that that there's possible that there's a possible threat of violence ? of violence? >> absolutely . that >> yeah, well, absolutely. that is concerning. you know, is very concerning. you know, any of, dishearten any any sort of, uh dishearten in our community, any sort of divide in our community is never a good thing. but what you must understand is most christians and jews, unfortunately , across and jews, unfortunately, across the globe, are being persecuted . the globe, are being persecuted. and they're being persecuted in schools under the guise of

equality. so you can only understand when a certain situation comes and this has situation comes up. and this has been last been happening for the last couple especially in been happening for the last cou united especially in been happening for the last cou united kingdom.;cially in been happening for the last cou united kingdom. there in been happening for the last cou united kingdom. there was the united kingdom. there was a major uproar in 2019 when i where taken into where i was actually taken into the high court because i asked where i was actually taken into the nephews rt because i asked where i was actually taken into the nephews head:ause i asked where i was actually taken into the nephews head teacher, sked where i was actually taken into the nephews head teacher, the my nephews head teacher, the wife she was giving my nephew a book that would suggest a transgender lifestyle as being acceptable without consulting his parents. so the point is , i his parents. so the point is, i understand that, you know, both sides of the argument, but what we must understand and what we must grasp is these are people who hold their religious beliefs very their heart. these very close to their heart. these are who are are people who are understanding, i understand understanding, and i understand and condemn any form of extremism. you know, we must not, uh, get on to the most extreme side of things. we must be, you know, a peace loving community, a peace loving nation, but a community who's being continuously vilified. you know, uh, the abrahamic faiths are continuously being battered and, you know, uh, targeted . and and, you know, uh, targeted. and you can only understand for the heightened issues that are happening. but again, they should pushing their concerns

should be pushing their concerns in a respectful and peace loving manner . manner. >> is the problem, alexander, to come to you on this is it is the problem that it is being interpreted attack on interpreted and as an attack on on mean , i have on faith. i mean, i have absolutely doubt that an art absolutely no doubt that an art teacher image teacher showing an image like that not at all attempting to that is not at all attempting to attack anyone's religious belief, but that people are taking it that is taking it that way. is that really the problem here? >> . i mean, you could say >> well. i mean, you could say that they're educating people about the classical religion of greece . greece. >> um, also a lot of, um , >> um, also a lot of, um, western art, of course, is to do with the bible. it comes from the bible. and so a lot of it is sort of do matters sort of to do with matters from the testament . so these the old testament. so these would be familiar for muslim students well. but students as well. um, but i think that there is an assault on religion and there is, um , a on religion and there is, um, a great deal of hostility towards, um, all of the abrahamic faiths . um, all of the abrahamic faiths. um, so i'm, i'm kind of sympathetic. i do understand why muslims feel that, um , their muslims feel that, um, their concerns are not taken as seriously. um, because this is also the art teacher was

attempting to attack anyone's faith by showing this image. i don't know, i don't think i don't know, i don't think i don't the was don't think that the teacher was doing all. they were doing that at all. they were they talking they were simply talking about art they presenting art and they were presenting a good example of classical mythology , oil painting, which mythology, oil painting, which is the sort of thing that, um, children in france would see, um, in, in sort of civic buildings. they would see, you know, like liberty leading the people, which is a painting by delacroix , is a painting of delacroix, is a painting of a woman showing her breasts, and she's the, uh, the she's leading the, uh, the revolutionaries of the, um, across across the barricade in 1848. and this is a national symbol. so this is a symbol of france, a woman with her breasts bared. now obviously, this is a little bit difficult for muslims. and conservative christians to take. um, but but you need to understand what this means and why it's so important to the french people , even if to the french people, even if ultimately you think it's inappropriate or wrong. >> very interesting . i'm afraid >> very interesting. i'm afraid we're out of time, but thank you both ever so much for joining me. shaquille and alexander.

thank and next up on free thank you. and next up on free speech nation, we're going to be discussing a study which shows a very concerning number of young people now think that people who now think that the horrors holocaust are horrors of the holocaust are actually go actually a myth. do not go anywhere .

your listening to gb news radio show . show. >> woo woo woo woo woo woo . >> woo woo woo woo woo woo. >> woo woo woo woo woo woo. >> welcome back to free speech nation, a concert new poll carried out by the economist and yougov suggests there is a worrying rise in holocaust denial . denial. >> the results suggest that more than a fifth of young americans aged between 19 and 29 agree with the statement that the holocaust is a myth , with holocaust is a myth, with a further 30% neither agree nor disagreeing with the statement. so frank ferretti , the emeritus so frank ferretti, the emeritus professor of sociology at the university of kent, has been writing about this study. he joins me now. frank this is incredibly concerning. when i saw those statistics, almost saw those statistics, i almost

didn't believe in their veracity. can it be the case that holocaust denialism is now rife university campuses ? rife on university campuses? yes, i think so. >> i think what's very interesting is that in the old days, holocaust denial was much more linked to people who were uneducated and kind of peasants , uneducated and kind of peasants, working class people who are sometimes drawn towards the far right, whereas now holocaust denial has gone mainstream on many campuses, particularly in the anglo american world and i think what what this really represents ants to me is the corrosive impact of identity politics, because very often . politics, because very often. the key, uh, the key issues which are important for identity politics are the ones that kind of grab the imagination of young people and somehow they've kind of come together with a kind of pro—hamas , anti—jewish , uh, and, pro—hamas, anti—jewish, uh, and, you know, sort of ideal where it's very easy to make that conceptual leap and argue that,

in fact, jews are not victims . in fact, jews are not victims. the holocaust is a myth. it's been all big. one big conspiracy to fool people . to fool people. >> to what extent do you think this is connected with recent events in gaza? because i've seen on social media, of course, but also in the mainstream commentariat , an incredible commentariat, an incredible willingness to, uh, ignore facts that are inconvenient for one's particular perspective . i mean, particular perspective. i mean, i'm not imagining this , am i? i'm not imagining this, am i? >> no you're not. i think one of the interesting things is, is that the holocaust has become weaponized and very often there's almost like a real desire to kind of almost turn the holocaust around and blame the holocaust around and blame the jews for committing holocaust , uh, the jews for committing holocaust, uh, in gaza. so there's an attempt to almost relieve the burden of the old holocaust that somehow, uh, that was just, uh, no different than what's happening in the, in gaza today. and i think this kind of dishonest way of using terms

like genocide and holocaust actually leads to a situation where the moral content of what the holocaust was becomes totally trivialised and this is something that i think has really crystallised into a very dangerous , very corrosive sort dangerous, very corrosive sort ofideal dangerous, very corrosive sort of ideal that allows anti—semitism to, to, to flourish in, in, in many, many domains of our lives. but i should point out that if you look at a number of studies that have been carried out for the last 15, 20 years, you'll see that there's been a steady rise in holocaust denial in many, many parts of europe and also in america. and that's to do with the way in which, uh, uh, hatred for, uh, israel has somehow converged with an attempt to, uh, in a sense , to turn the uh, in a sense, to turn the holocaust into something that is, you know, where jews are dispossessed of their relationship to the holocaust . relationship to the holocaust. >> i mean, it's been very interesting to see because i've always found it baffling that

holocaust denialism could be a thing, given the overwhelming and incontestable evidence for it. but then we've seen in recent weeks people openly denying what happened a few months ago, uh, to jewish people on october the 7th. i mean, do you think that this is partly escalating because of social media? because of the conditions of our time ? or do you think of our time? or do you think that this has always been a tendency ? tendency? >> i think there's always been a tendency on the part of people to see what they want to see, and not to see what's in front of their eyes. if it challenges you know, their their way of being and what's happened now is that kind of blindness to reality is actually, uh, sort of a van—tam promoted through the social media. you have to remember that, uh, the very minute that hamas itself is glorified , all the terrible glorified, all the terrible things it did on october the 7th, the very minute it's doing that, you've got all all these

new videos coming out that suggest that these realists have just invented this, that this is just invented this, that this is just a conspiracy to fool people, that actually the atrocities never occurred . and atrocities never occurred. and what i find particularly interesting is you have all these feminist organisations who . every time a woman says that they've been attacked, say, believe the woman , believe the believe the woman, believe the woman, believe the woman . when woman, believe the woman. when it comes to israeli women being raped in southern, in the southern part of their country and really humiliate hated. all of a sudden you don't believe the women? on the contrary , you the women? on the contrary, you accuse those women who've been horrified , you know, and most horrified, you know, and most horrific way abused of lying and making the story up. so what we've got here is almost like a parallel universe that's being created, uh, in between different sides of the argument . different sides of the argument. and that is something particular very disturbing, because it makes it impossible for us to have any kind of point of contact, any kind of discussion ,

contact, any kind of discussion, because we see two very, very different things, very . worrying indeed. >> frank ferretti, thank you so much for joining >> frank ferretti, thank you so much forjoining me tonight. >> frank ferretti, thank you so much forjoining me tonight . and much for joining me tonight. and next up on free speech nation , next up on free speech nation, michelle mone tries to defend the indefensible . all queers for the indefensible. all queers for palestine shut down manhattan bridge and just stop oil. have a go at ruining christmas. it's almost time for social sensations. don't go anywhere

on mark dolan tonight in my big opinion , labour have no interest opinion, labour have no interest in tackling immigration. >> it might take a ten. gary lineker is destroying the bbc and he doesn't care his modern society forgetting the importance of mothers. i'll be asking edwina currie. plus, would margaret thatcher have stopped the boats? we'll ask her former top adviser and keep the kids up. father christmas joins me live in the studio. see you

at nine. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. so it's nation with me, andrew doyle. so wsfime nation with me, andrew doyle. so it's time for social sensations . it's time for social sensations. that's the part of the show where we look at what's been going viral this week on social media. up, this bbc media. and first up, this bbc interview with baroness mone. it's touched a nerve it's definitely touched a nerve today. so the tory peer has now admitted benefit from admitted she could benefit from admitted she could benefit from a contract to provide ppe during the pandemic. but remains unrepentant. let's have a look , michelle. >> it does feel like the truth has had to be dragged out here. >> not really laura, because the only thing i'd say to you is the only thing i'd say to you is the only area that i have made is say to the press that i wasn't involved. i don't honestly see there's a case to answer. um, i can't see what we've done wrong . can't see what we've done wrong. so she doesn't think lying to the press is wrong or

misrepresenting to the press? >> is that is that what she's saying? was as bad. saying? i was as bad. >> it's not illegal. i think she's right. i mean, it's up to it's up to the people who hired her to have investigated her beforehand. and. >> lying to the press, >> yeah, lying to the press, good or bad? >> bad. >> uh, bad. >> uh, bad. >> we right. let's >> there we go. right. let's move next okay. move on to the next one. okay. we don't have much time. i'm afraid new york afraid we're going to new york next. was next. manhattan bridge was blocked by blocked on monday evening by queers palestine queers for palestine demonstrators, they marched demonstrators, and they marched across it from the brooklyn side. let's have look . kkk side. let's have a look. kkk ideas. >> you're all the same. and nypd, kkk , id and you're all the nypd, kkk, id and you're all the same . nypd, kkk , idf, you're all same. nypd, kkk, idf, you're all the same . the same. >> hey , free palestine , i'm so >> hey, free palestine, i'm so sick of queers for palestine. >> i mean, for goodness sake , >> i mean, for goodness sake, they they're so self—satirising aren't they? the idea, i mean, what they should do if they believe in this movement is go over gaza and the west bank over to gaza and the west bank and wear rainbow lanyards and wear their rainbow lanyards and wear their rainbow lanyards and see how that goes down. >> very well received

and see how that goes down. >i'm very well received and see how that goes down. >i'm yeah.ry well received and see how that goes down. >i'm yeah. openl received and see how that goes down. >i'm yeah. open armsived and see how that goes down. >i'm yeah. open arms it;d , i'm sure. yeah. open arms it would be. >> it would be brilliantly, wouldn't think >> it would be brilliantly, wcthis?t think of this? >> think manhattan bridge. >> i think manhattan bridge. that's a weird choice of that's like a weird choice of a bridge. i mean, it's like, what's wrong with the bridge? >> well, don't know . there's >> well, i don't know. there's that many of them. there's quite a of them. a lot of them. >> from the brooklyn >> one up from the brooklyn bridge. it was the second bridge that built that they built, and they built it. saved money it. they say they saved money and do the they and they didn't do the they didn't the metal didn't wrap the, the metal whatever to it in whatever to make it in protective leaving aside the history of the bridge, which is fascinating , what like fascinating, what do you like the the identity the idea when the identity politics goes far and so politics goes so far and so tribal, these activists tribal, that these activists feel we have support feel we have to support absolutely everything that our tribe should, even tribe says we should, even though the morons homosexuality is , you know, people get killed is, you know, people get killed for it. >> yeah, well , for it. >> yeah, well, a friend of our friend is our enemy. >> that's what this is all >> and that's what this is all about. enemy of our friend about. or an enemy of our friend or of enemy is or an enemy of our enemy is our friend. what is about. >> it's the spirit kane, >> it's the spirit of kane, embodied in the embittered masses. hate masses. and i hate them. >> that's quite grandiose way >> that's quite a grandiose way of well of putting it, jonathan. well done. let's have look done. okay, let's have a look at this video. this one is, this next video. so this one is, um, have look. um, let's have a look. now, christmas is just over

christmas christmas is just over a away. of course. festive a week away. of course. festive cheer will on the cheer will be thin on the ground, though, our old ground, though, if our old friends just stop oil have friends at just stop oil have their way. you wouldn't believe what now what they've been up to. now let's have a look. now look. it's very different than throwing tomato soup at a work of art, which i think is utterly abhorrent, that they're it's just a christmas tree, but it's just a christmas tree, but it's still vandalism . um, what it's still vandalism. um, what i don't understand is don't understand about this is like, peaceful like, i believe in peaceful protest, disagree with like, i believe in peaceful protpeople disagree with like, i believe in peaceful protpeople protesting.|ree with like, i believe in peaceful protpeople protesting. but with like, i believe in peaceful protpeople protesting. but ifth the people protesting. but if you're committing crimes, why is no one arresting them? that's insane. >> why is nobody arresting them? >> why is nobody arresting them? >> never do. they just let >> they never do. they just let them throw soup everything them throw soup at everything and at and then. and then rant at everyone uh, everyone in their think, uh, there's going there i >> k- k they why are there >> why are they why are there a two tier policing, tier policing? >> phrase that keeps >> that's the phrase that keeps coming it? what do you coming up, isn't it? what do you think this, think about this, lewis? shouldn't these people? >> think the death penalty. >> i think the death penalty. >> i think the death penalty. >> . >> lewis. >> lewis. >> that seems quite extreme to me. i don't think that's the way

to go . to go. >> i think a few dead, a few pubuc >> i think a few dead, a few public executions would help. >> i have to say i don't agree with the death penalty under any circumstances. all right. >> you don't with it? >> so you don't agree with it? maybe with it maybe i don't agree with it enhen maybe i don't agree with it either, needs to either, but something needs to be i think arresting for, >> i think arresting people for, uh, the law might uh, for breaking the law might be that be a nice that one. >> old guy, that one >> that one old guy, that one old white guy. >> let's a few more >> but let's arrest a few more anyway. look, this is the part of the where talk of the show where we talk through unfiltered through your unfiltered dilemmas. much through your unfiltered dilem but.. much through your unfiltered dilem but we much through your unfiltered dilem but we have much through your unfiltered dilem but we have got much through your unfiltered dilem but we have got timeiuch through your unfiltered dilem but we have got time for| time, but we have got time for one. one in ian time, but we have got time for one.ian one in ian time, but we have got time for one.ian says; in ian time, but we have got time for one.ian says during in ian time, but we have got time for one.ian says during advent,ian and ian says during advent, i eat out in restaurants 4 or 5 times, i love rose eat times, and i love rose eat turkey. however, i always forget to them to serve it without to ask them to serve it without gravy which it comes gravy, which means it then comes submerged . i really hate gravy submerged. i really hate gravy and the meal is like gravy soup with turkey croutons. so can your panel tell me what to do? you have to be very clear when you restaurants you order things in restaurants and send it back. if you get it wrong, right? >> i think he needs to get help. that the words of a lunatic . that was the words of a lunatic. really? look how like really? yeah. just look how like , sometimes it's like gravy. please my viewers, please don't insult my viewers, jonathan.that's someone who's

>> well, that's someone who's concerned. i mean, you should send it back, right? if it's an inadequate lewis . inadequate meal, lewis. >> no, because turkey always has to have gravy. because it's so dry. it's one of the least healthy of all the meats. >> okay. and you shouldn't it shouldn't be eaten. >> okay. it shouldn't be eaten. >> okay. it shouldn't be eaten. >> coming from the carnivore. lewis schaffer. is an lewis schaffer. that is quite an interesting development. okay, well, for . thank you ever so much time for. thank you ever so much for us for free speech for joining us for free speech nation. this the when nation. this was the week when a 17th century painting caused controversy at a french school, british airways weighed into the israel—gaza conflict , and just israel—gaza conflict, and just stop started attacking stop oil started attacking christmas trees. thank you so much to my panel, jonathan cogan and lewis schaffer and to all of my guests that we've seen this evening. and by the way, if you want to join us live in the studio and be part of our wonderful studio audience, you can easily just go to can easily do that. just go to sro audiences.com. that website address is on the screen right now. you can apply and come along and tuned, by the along and stay tuned, by the way, the brilliant mark along and stay tuned, by the way, tonightthe brilliant mark along and stay tuned, by the way, tonight is; brilliant mark along and stay tuned, by the way, tonight is up illiant mark along and stay tuned, by the way, tonight is up next.: mark along and stay tuned, by the way, tonight is up next. don't dolan tonight is up next. don't

forget every forget headliners is on every night at 11:00. that's the late night at 11:00. that's the late night paper preview show where comedians take you through the next day's news stories. thanks for watching free speech nation. see next week . see you next week. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boiler sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello . there. >> hello. there. >> hello. there. >> good evening. i'm jonathan vautrey here with your gb news weather forecast provided by the met office. there is plenty of weather occupied over weather to keep us occupied over the this coming week, the course of this coming week, and off on and that starts off even on sunday night. sunday evening and night. this band rain spreading way band of rain spreading its way across northern across parts of northern ireland, england, ireland, northern england, southwest ireland, northern england, south of st ireland, northern england, south of wales, as well . the parts of wales, as well. the southeastern areas england southeastern areas of england will to a few clearer will hold on to a few clearer spells, and also in the northwest of scotland will see some overnight that some clear spells overnight that will drop will allow temperatures to drop off figures off down into mid single figures also. are stuck also. but where you are stuck underneath cloud underneath all that cloud and rain another night. rain will be another mild night. not much than 10 to not seeing much lower than 10 to 12 c. that rain will slowly push its way southwards as we head

throughout the day, so there will be some early brightness in the southeast, but the cloud will thicken up its way will tend to thicken up its way in the afternoon. in here and into the afternoon. it's of it's going to be parts of northern ireland central northern ireland into central areas of scotland that start to see its way in, see the sun poke its way in, and the winds also easing the winds will also be easing out but still out in the north, but still quite england and quite blustery for england and wales generally, wales once again. generally, temperatures above average for the between 10 and the time of year between 10 and 13 c on tuesday. our the time of year between 10 and 13 c on tuesday . our attention 13 c on tuesday. our attention to this next area of frontal systems that are going push systems that are going to push their in the southwest, their way in from the southwest, so like and so it's looking like wales and england bear england that are going to bear the brunt the rainfall on the brunt of the rainfall on tuesday a very wet rush tuesday could be a very wet rush hour period first thing on the day. spray on the roads day. lots of spray on the roads when travelling. that when you are travelling. that will way will eventually clear its way off that you'll see off and behind that you'll see those spells pushing in those sunny spells pushing in from northwest, but also from the northwest, but also with some scattered showers. they wintry over the they could be wintry over the higher areas scotland . higher ground areas of scotland. it's of sunshine and it's that theme of sunshine and showers continue showers that will continue into the week, the second half of the week, with some strong winds still around as well. with some strong winds still arowbut as well. with some strong winds still arowbut looks as well. with some strong winds still arowbut looks like ell. with some strong winds still arowbut looks like things are >> but by looks like things are heating up boxt boiler as sponsors of weather on gb news .

it's 9:00 on television, on radio and online in the united kingdom and across the world. >> this is mark dolan tonight, the last mark dolan tonight of 2023. in my opinion. rishi sunak speaks out on the threat of illegal migration and finally shows a political backbone. meanwhile, labour have no interest in stopping the boats. next year will be the immigration election and it's all to play for. immigration election and it's all to play for . this is very all to play for. this is very special . my mark meets guest is special. my mark meets guest is the most famous man in the world. father christmas live in the studio . keep the kids up. we the studio. keep the kids up. we have given him a brandy and a mince pie. father christmas at 945 and he'll be telling me whether you've been good boys or good girls this year in the big story, as ireland's voting on

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