the right move from rishi or not, and labour's 28 billion a year on green investment will it happen once it happened? well now it seems apparently that no, it won't, but it's rishi's fault that it won't. of course it is. and sunak. speaking of him, he was asked whether or not he'd ever bring rishi sunak back to the cabinet a la david cameron . the cabinet a la david cameron. i've he didn't rule i've got to say he didn't rule it out. i meant boris , by the it out. i meant boris, by the way. so should he bring boris johnson into the cabinet or not? and do you think we need new measures to clamp down on face coverings fireworks coverings, fireworks and climbing war memorials during climbing on war memorials during protests ? yes or no? and last protests? yes or no? and last but not least, should passengers be weird when getting on a plane? and if so, to what end .

plane? and if so, to what end. i'll have all of that to come and more. but before we get stuck in, let's cross live to polly middlehurst for tonight's latest news headlines . latest news headlines. >> michelle, thank you and good evening to you. well, labour has confirmed today it is axing billions of pounds from its commitment to environmental issues. sir keir starmer said this afternoon the pledge, one of the party's flagship policies, will be scaled back to almost £24 billion instead of the original 28 billion. he says the original 28 billion. he says the savings have been made by cutting back on an ambitious warm homes plan to insulate millions of houses over the next decade. he went on, though, to blame the tories for a very broken economy, adding he didn't want to have a row about the size of a chequebook or the reason for that is because since we announced the 28 billion, the tories have done terrible damage

to our economy , not just the liz to our economy, not just the liz truss budget cut, but also now the government briefing that it's going to max out on the government credit card . government credit card. >> reckless. but i have to anticipate the circumstances as they are now not as i would wish them to be under sir keir starmer. >> well, the chief secretary to the treasury, laura trott , says the treasury, laura trott, says today's announcement confirms that labour doesn't have a plan for britain now. >> for months, labour have been saying that their 2030 energy policies are going to cost £28 billion. and all that's happened today is that they confirmed that they don't have a plan to pay that they don't have a plan to pay for that, not having a plan inevitably means imposing higher taxes on working people, and thatis taxes on working people, and that is why labour would take britain back to square one. >> now , in other news today, >> now, in other news today, armed police have searched two addresses in newcastle in their hunt for a chemical attacker. abdul ezedi. it's understood the search warrants included his place of work, but no arrests were made. azides believed to be

suffering from severe facial injuries which could be life threatening if left untreated , threatening if left untreated, and the last recorded sighting of the suspect was near vauxhall bridge in london just after 11:00 last week . anyone with any 11:00 last week. anyone with any information should come forward and speak to police now. protesters who cover their faces to avoid arrest could face tough penalties under new laws unveiled today. demonstrators would also be blocked from climbing war memorials or letting off flares , citing the letting off flares, citing the right to protest will no longer be an excuse for causing major disruption as the home office seeks to crack down on what it calls dangerous disorder. critics say the new powers represent a threat to civil liberties . the prime represent a threat to civil liberties. the prime minister says it's sad and wrong to link a comment he made about transgender people in the commons yesterday with the murdered trans teenager brianna ghey. murdered trans teenager brianna ghey . rishi sunak is facing ghey. rishi sunak is facing calls to apologise for making what brianna's father described

as a dehumanising remark. concerns the correct definition of a woman . it's understood the of a woman. it's understood the family's been invited to meet the prime minister and he told reporters today he was making a very clear point. >> like everyone , i was >> like everyone, i was completely shocked by brianna's case. to have your child taken from you in such awful circumstances is almost impossible to come to terms with. to use that tragedy to detract from the very separate and clear point i was making about keir starmer's proven track record of multiple u—turns on major policies, because he doesn't have a plan, i think is both sad and wrong, and it demonstrates the worst of politics. now the minimum unit price for alcohol in scotland is said to be raised from £0.50 to £0.65, that means shops in scotland won't be able to sell a bottle of wine for less than £6 a £0.09. >> the price hike will be subject to parliament approval

and won't take place until the end of september. deputy first minister shona robison says it shows scotland remains world leading in improving public health. natwest bank has appointed a former ubs executive to lead its high net worth banking arm, coutts. emma crystal will take the top job, reporting directly to natwest's interim chief executive, paul thwaite. it's understood she'll also join the board . it comes also join the board. it comes more than six months after the resignation of peter flavell in the wake of nigel farage's coutts de—banking ing scandal. and snow is blanketing parts of the country today as a new cold spell settles in dozens of schools were closed today and forecasters warn that up to 25cm of snow could fall in some elevated areas. amber warnings for snow are in place in parts of northern england and northern wales. yellow warnings across the rest of the uk as well the

met office is saying the worst of the weather is expected later today, and snowy conditions will then move further north tomorrow . so for the very latest stories , do sign up for gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. commens dirt's . thanks for that poly and dirt's. thanks for that poly and michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside me , i've got tonight alongside me, i've got the head of public policy at the institute of economic affairs, mark leech, and the contributing editor novara media, michael walker. >> good evening to both of you gents. and you know, the drill, don't you? it's not just about us. it's about you guys at home as well. what's on your mind tonight? you can get in touch with me all the usual ways. vaiews@gbnews.com. or you can text gb news. i'm trying text me at gb news. i'm trying very hard. my viewer yesterday told me off for still calling it twitter, so i decided to call it x now. just don't sound right though. you can me mean

though. you can x me i mean i just sounds very odd, but anyway, whatever you want to call at gb news is how call it at gb news is how you reach me. there i do want to talk about the fact you just heard there in the heard it. there in the bulletins. fact this bulletins. the fact that this suspect chemical attacker abdul ezedi is still out there. he's still a lord only knows where. yesterday there was conversations met conversations from the met police he might police that perhaps he might have up in the river have ended up in the river thames. what? that tells me is, quite they quite frankly, they have absolutely no idea where on earth. for we've just been earth. for years we've just been heanng earth. for years we've just been hearing that one of the last sightings was, um, vauxhall bridge. not bridge. now, if you're not familiar vauxhall bridge familiar with vauxhall bridge in london, story short, almost london, long story short, almost at the end of it, like pretty much literally not far off the side , you've got mi6 much literally not far off the side , you've got m16 and i mean, side, you've got m16 and i mean, if we can't track this fella when you're literally meandering past the highest security past one of the highest security , um, establishments in this country, then what hope have we got ? got? >> so, yeah, it's pretty shocking from the met. i think there was a comment yesterday along of, he could be along the lines of, he could be north, south—east or west, which doesn't down the doesn't exactly narrow down the search mean, the whole search field. i mean, the whole argument around basically

turning out the streets of london of london into a mini kind of surveillance state was to be able to tackle precisely this kind situation. so i'm kind of situation. so i'm genuinely quite shocked that it hasn't found yet, hasn't been found yet, especially the especially considering the massive his face as massive injury to his face as you just raises so many questions . questions. >> um, it is. and people say, oh, michelle, don't bash the police, and the police have a hard enough job. and i agree with that because i do try my absolute best actually, to give praise is due to the praise where it is due to the police. on this they police. but on this one, they took long time to even took such a long time to even release an image a release an image or a description of this fella that i kind think, well, if you'd kind of think, well, if you'd have done that, perhaps sooner, you might be this you might not be in this position you're position now where you're offering taxpayers money as rewards to and track him down. >> yeah. it's possible. mean, >> yeah. it's possible. i mean, i say, how he i suppose you say, how is he still out i mean, he still out there? i mean, he might dead right? that that might be dead right? that that would be. well, i wish i wouldn't mind if he was, quite frankly. yeah. i mean, with this many cameras the capital many cctv cameras in the capital city, thought city, you would have thought that have found him that they would have found him by but the same time, by now. but at the same time, you if you're on you know, if you're thinking on a perspective, the a historical perspective, the expectation anyone

expectation we have that anyone who crime will who commits a crime will instantly is, you know, instantly be found is, you know, we potentially a bit we are potentially being a bit unfair on the cops. there you know, usual even know, it's not usual even disguising himself. >> right. you know, people >> right. you know, when people talk north—south divide talk about a north—south divide right. say, well, right. and people say, well, what mean you can tell what do we mean to you can tell that this is in london because there meandering there is this guy meandering around half of around literally with half of his face hanging off and in supermarkets, etc. nobody even his face hanging off and in supe|a|arkets, etc. nobody even his face hanging off and in supe|a double etc. nobody even his face hanging off and in supe|a double take.iobody even his face hanging off and in supe|a double take. if»ody even his face hanging off and in supe|a double take. if»ody1was does a double take. if that was a tesco north, i'm absolutely a tesco up north, i'm absolutely sure that would be sure that people would be looking him , trying to looking at him, trying to engage, find out what's going on on by by the way, on the screen by by the way, you've pizza place. um, you've got the pizza place. um, apparently work or apparently used to work there or something. that's um, something. that's what um, i think there's been a warrant. uh, a warrant out and a search of that place . but anyway, i of that place. but anyway, i interrupted. sorry, michael. >> other thing was >> i mean, the other thing was that was told not to that everyone was told not to approach him, right? i approach him, right? so i suppose, did mean when approach him, right? so i sup policeiid mean when approach him, right? so i sup police got mean when approach him, right? so i sup police got a mean when approach him, right? so i sup police got a tipiean when approach him, right? so i sup police got a tip off, when approach him, right? so i sup police got a tip off, it when approach him, right? so i sup police got a tip off, it was/hen the police got a tip off, it was always just that little bit too late something, i don't know. late or something, i don't know. >> yeah, but i mean, >> well, yeah, but i mean, i remember this when it happened. i very well was i remember very well it was about half past seven or so on the wasn't and i'm the night wasn't it? and i'm sure descriptive, um, sure the descriptive, um,

information come out information didn't come out until 2:00 the until about 1:30, 2:00 the next day. they saying, has day. and they were saying, has anyone a ring doorbell? you anyone got a ring doorbell? you know, you've anything. know, if you've seen anything. well, what if i don't know what i'm looking for other than a vague description of a man? well, is you think i'm well, what is it you think i'm going look for? especially at going to look for? especially at the common, the end of clapham common, which, if you're not familiar with clapham it's with clapham common, it's basically like a massive green park. absolutely park. uh, and it's absolutely packed runners. anyway, packed full of runners. anyway, i think police have got, uh, i think the police have got, uh, serious questions answer. and i think the police have got, uh, se course,iestions answer. and i think the police have got, uh, se course,ie do ns answer. and i think the police have got, uh, se course,ie do need answer. and i think the police have got, uh, se course,ie do need to swer. and i think the police have got, uh, se course,ie do need to point and of course, i do need to point out a note to the victims. the mom, uh, the lady there, she still not in a fit, uh, still is not in a fit, uh, position even to talk to the police she's police properly. she's under sedation, we of sedation, and that we know, of course, that has got course, now that she has got life injuries . uh, life changing injuries. uh, maha. and everyone else is her. of course, goes out to the mum and there's two little girls affected. and wherever this fellow is, uh, if anyone's harbouring you think harbouring him, do you think anyone's harbouring him? >> i absolutely no idea >> i have absolutely no idea whatsoever . but, yeah, i >> i have absolutely no idea whatsoever. but, yeah, i mean, it would be criminal to harbour him. i mean, if you had been sort of hiding this guy from the cops, you would also be now cops, and you would also be now

a suspect. >> if you are harbouring >> well, if you are harbouring him and you happen to be watching me on gb news, i want to that you are pretty to tell you that you are pretty damn disgraceful. anyone that could even nanosecond could even have a nanosecond thought about sheltering someone that apparently has has it in them an like that, or them to do an act like that, or several acts like that. quite frankly, you're an absolute. you're lower and you're lower than low. and i can't you what i actually can't tell you what i actually think i get kicked off think of you. i get kicked off television, you never see my face again. so how about i move on different uh, on to a different story? uh, you'll familiar. i'm sure, by you'll be familiar. i'm sure, by the fact rishi sunak. uh, the fact that rishi sunak. uh, did all of this going on did you see all of this going on in yesterday? if you in pmqs yesterday? if you did not, lucky are you? because not, how lucky are you? because i've got a little clip to remind you of exactly what went on, and then we're discuss it. then we're going to discuss it. >> week, the >> mr speaker, this week, the unwavering brianna unwavering bravery of brianna ghey has touched ghey mother, esther, has touched us father, i can't us all. as a father, i can't even imagine the pain that she is going through, and i am glad that she is with us in the gallery here today. that she is with us in the galdefining today. that she is with us in the galdefining a>day. that she is with us in the galdefining a woman. although, >> defining a woman. although, although in fairness, that was only 99% of a u turn that the list goes on. but the theme is the same. mr speaker, it's empty

words, broken promises, and absolutely no plan of all of all the work of all the weeks to say that when briana's mother is in this chamber , the shame parading this chamber, the shame parading as a man of integrity when he's got absolutely no responsibility i >> -- >> well, i've got to tell you right off the back of that there has been an immense pressure campaign aimed at rishi sunak everywhere. quite frankly, people have been saying to him it was awful, it was disgraceful. you said that keir starmer shame on you, starmer saying shame on you, he's under huge amount of he's come under a huge amount of pressure basically say sorry. pressure basically to say sorry. well he is not well rishi sunak, he is not having any of that. let's listen to what he had to say today. thatis to what he had to say today. that is not rishi sunak that is brianna ghey. his father. he was basically calling on rishi sunak to apologise . that's what pops to apologise. that's what pops up on your screen. there rishi sunak responded let's listen in. >> like everyone , i was

>> like everyone, i was completely shocked by my brianna's case. to have your child taken from you in such awful circumstances is almost impossible to come to terms with. to use that tragedy to detract from the very separate and clear point i was making about keir starmer's proven track record of multiple u—turns on major policies. because he doesn't have a plan, i think is both sad and wrong , doesn't have a plan, i think is both sad and wrong, and it demonstrates the worst of politics, the worst of politics. >> well, there you go. as i said, huge pressure campaign. brianna jai's dad there saying it was about dehumanising language and all the rest of it. where are you on it, matthew? >> look, i don't think there's a justification for rishi to apologise . it's quite a standard apologise. it's quite a standard attack line that he's used across whole of across a whole bunch of different it different question times. it obviously whatsoever obviously had nothing whatsoever to brianna and to do with brianna and apologising. now would be effectively saying that he doesn't stand by the underlying point, which is whether or not, um, keir has this tendency to do

u—turns on this question of the way he talks about trans people. now, undoubtedly, from a political perspective, wasn't political perspective, it wasn't the comment it the wisest comment to make it the wisest comment to make it the and shows some the wisest time and shows some level poorjudgement the level of poor judgement on the prime minister's part. but i think just speaks to think it's also just speaks to this point that, um, the this broader point that, um, the prime minister gets caught in these because lacks these masses because he lacks any like, broader any kind of like, broader purpose reason and to purpose or reason and able to focus and direct the agenda day to day. so we ended up falling foul of these kind of rhetorical back and forths with the opposition rather than opposition leader, rather than actually something that actually having something that he's he can talk he's doing and he can talk about. positive about. that's kind of positive or meaningful any of or meaningful or any kind of policy focus on, really. >> do you think that at home, do you think that actually, uh, rishi is tripping up left, right and centre because actually he's got nothing or successful got nothing robust or successful or point to? that or positive to point to? is that fair feedback? tell me, fair feedback? you tell me, michael , fair feedback? you tell me, michael, where are you on it? well, think where i disagree well, i think where i disagree with you, matthew, that this with you, matthew, is that this did have something to with did have something to do with brianna, right? >> a politician or >> whenever a politician or a journalist sort of up and journalist sort of stands up and tries trans people the tries to make trans people the butt that is about butt of a joke, that is about every trans person the

every trans person in the country brianna i mean country and brianna ghey, i mean tragically killed. now was a trans person . so if you are trans person. so if you are constantly trying to politicise this you this issue and say, aha, you can't define a woman, then every trans in this country trans person in this country sees that essentially an sees that as essentially an attack them, which it is. and attack on them, which it is. and isupposei attack on them, which it is. and i suppose i was interested to discuss topic with you discuss this topic with you because topic because we discuss this topic often say, i'm often in relation to say, i'm a trans who's maybe gone to trans person who's maybe gone to prison or committed a crime, who's very unsympathetic. i who's very unsympathetic. and i mean, where mean, in this context where we're talking about brianna ghey and everyone will agree, and i think everyone will agree, and i think everyone will agree, a sympathetic person a very sympathetic person who had a tragic fate had a, you know, a tragic fate in is it is it fair to had a, you know, a tragic fate in is it is it fairto sort had a, you know, a tragic fate in is it is it fair to sort of say, is she a woman? is she a man? you know, i mean, where would you stand on that? >> well, where would i, where i would stand is not to get involved. a child has been murdered. and what i think is absolutely damn disgusting. and that's happening in this society, that child's society, is that that child's murder been weaponized murder has been weaponized for political you're political gain. and what you're trying with me and it's trying to do with me and it's not going to happen. i'm afraid you're trying to to say, you're trying to get me to say, do child was a boy, do i think that child was a boy, or do think that child was a

or do i think that child was a girl? well, what i actually think is that is a child. that's been horrifically murdered and you know i just want to you know what? i just want to let lie. lie? it's let that child lie. lie? it's not to start attempting not for me to start attempting to what that child was or to say what that child was or wasn't. so i'm going to get wasn't. so i'm not going to get involved in that dialogue. >> this idea as well, >> so this this idea as well, i think this idea that this is being sort politically being sort of politically exploited, rishi sunak exploited, i mean, rishi sunak is saying this the kind is saying this is the worst kind of politics. he's not just talking starmer there, talking to keir starmer there, he's talking to brianna ghey father, clearly brianna father, because clearly brianna ghey father this, thinks ghey father thinks this, thinks this to his daughter. >> what steve humanising about saying have saying a woman doesn't have a penis because i think there are many people in society who were born as males who can only live happily in society. >> we as women brianna ghey was one of them. >> what does that mean? what doesit >> what does that mean? what does it mean? >> so i think, how do you live in society as a woman? well, so you a society being you live in a society being referred to as a woman. you'll probably take hormones, which changes body looks changes what your body looks like. i mean, that's going to be a one, isn't it? so you move a key one, isn't it? so you move

around you a woman or around as if you were a woman or as you were a female, let's as if you were a female, let's say. and that's clearly the case with many, many people in society. you around society. how do you move around as female? as though you're a female? >> you even talking about? >> well, people, it means that people refer to you as a woman. people treat you as a woman. i mean, i think when i walk around, treat me as around, people treat me as a man. and i think there is a difference how people treat difference to how people treat me as a man and how people treat me as a man and how people treat me man. uh, how do people me as a man and how people treat me me man. uh, how do people me as a man and how people treat me me asin. uh, how do people me as a man and how people treat me me as a uh, how do people me as a man and how people treat me me as a man? ow do people me as a man and how people treat me me as a man? well, people me as a man and how people treat me me as a man? well, they)le treat me as a man? well, they refer to me as he, um, which i think is a key one. and then when i, i mean, especially when you're i think it makes you're dating, i think it makes a big difference who whether people treat me as a or not. people treat me as a man or not. gay men tend me more gay men tend to find me more attractive than straight men. um, a way in which i um, which is a way in which i move around world as man, move around the world as a man, and that's sexuality. and that's their sexuality. yeah, what doing is i'm yeah, but what i'm doing is i'm explaining you makes explaining to you how it makes a difference to me that i'm moving around a man. if around the world as a man. if everyone suddenly started referring to me as a woman, i'd probably right? it might referring to me as a woman, i'd probaime right? it might referring to me as a woman, i'd probaime feel right? it might referring to me as a woman, i'd probaime feel a right? it might referring to me as a woman, i'd probaime feel a little? it might referring to me as a woman, i'd probaime feel a little bit might make me feel a little bit uncomfortable, think uncomfortable, but and i think there are people who are there are some people who are

born where for them, me born trans where for them, me walking everyone walking around and everyone referring me as a woman referring to me as a woman would be them walking be a bit like them walking around everyone referring to around and everyone referring to them you see what i them as a man. do you see what i mean? >> yeah, and i mean, you can walk around, um, with whatever pronouns that's none pronouns you want. that's none of my business, quite frankly, as that as everyone can. but that doesn't fact that you doesn't change the fact that you can't your biological can't change your biological sex. if you a man and sex. so if you were a man and want suddenly become a want to suddenly become a biological it ain't biological female, it ain't happening. no matter many happening. no matter how many wigs you put on dresses, you can't change your chromosomal sex. >> sex. >> but that's that's why i think there's difference between there's a difference between woman right. woman and female. right. and i suppose talk about this suppose we can talk about this concretely well. and, you concretely as well. and, you know, don't want to this know, i don't want to make this about um, child know, i don't want to make this abotwas um, child know, i don't want to make this abotwas murdered.jm, child know, i don't want to make this abotwas murdered. but child know, i don't want to make this abotwas murdered. but let's say who was murdered. but let's say there are many children around there are many children around the are brianna the country who are like brianna ghey, you know, who feel very deeply that they woman, deeply that they are a woman, even were born as a male. >> well, it worked for like they're a woman. if they're a child, they're woman. if child, they're not a woman. if they're child or girl child. they're a child or a girl child. >> and then many of them will grow up to believe or to feel deeply that they are a woman and they look like women. they will look like women. they'll hormones, their

they'll have hormones, their bodies will change, voices bodies will change, their voices will not, haven't really >> i hope not, i haven't really not these children full not pumping these children full of. mean, actually, i might of. i mean, actually, i might need break in a need to take a break in a second. come to this second. i'll come back to this because something because there is something happened and i can't happened in society and i can't quite put my finger on what it is, there this now is, but there is this notion now that can become a woman that a man can become a woman biologically and vice versa. and if don't adhere to that, and if you don't adhere to that, and if you don't adhere to that, and if don't hold heartedly if you don't hold heartedly believe you are believe that, then you are abused. called every name abused. you're called every name under the you pressure under the sun. you have pressure campaigns. like what? for example, rishi just experienced there when pointed there when he pointed out a simple women don't simple fact that women don't have think it's have penises. and i think it's absolutely absurd. let's absolutely absurd. so let's explore a second, explore it in a second, because i want to come back on i know you want to come back on me, and i shall let you. um, let's come back in two minutes. give me your thoughts this, give me your thoughts on this, particularly whether or not you think

news radio show . news radio show. >> hi rishi sunak here. join me for a special gb news people's forum live on monday the 12th of february. i want to hear about the issues that matter to you

for your chance to be part of the audience and to put your questions to me. >> scan the qr code on screen or go to gb news. com see you there i >> -- >> hi there michelle dewberry. >> hi there michelle dewberry. >> this is dewbs& co. if you were just listening then to rishi sunak. yes indeed, we are going to be in the north east on monday. is your opportunity and i repeat that your opportunity to put your questions to our prime minister. it is not about the presenter and rishi. oh no , the presenter and rishi. oh no, it's about you guys and rishi. so if you're in the north—east come along and if you're not in the north—east, you know what, have a day out. why not a, uh, get your camera, take a picture of the qr code. uh, scan it. it will give you all the details. i will give you all the details. i will be there, and i'm much will be there, and i'm very much looking forward it. i hope looking forward to it. i hope you join us anywhere in the you can join us anywhere in the studio today. i've got the head of public policy the of public policy at the institute affairs , institute of economic affairs, mark the contributing

mark leech, and the contributing editor of media, michael editor of novara media, michael walker. we were just speaking, um, before the break about whether not sunak , um, whether or not rishi sunak, um, should apologise for what he said pmqs. les on twitter , said at pmqs. les um on twitter, said at pmqs. les um on twitter, said michelle. he got completely sidetracked there. you guys, you started talking about how people identify the question was whether or rishi sunak whether or not rishi sunak should apologise. but you see, um, oh, it's actually not les. it's all linked because the reason people are saying that rishi sunak should apologise because they're suggesting because what they're suggesting is that was disrespectful , is that he was disrespectful, uh, to the family of brianna ghey who were in the public gallery. and the reason that they think he was disrespectful was because he was basically, um, saying that keir starmer can't quite fathom what a woman is. so actually , that is. so actually, that conversation about identity, etc. is at the heart of italy. michael anyway, you to michael anyway, you wanted to respond . respond. >> um, yeah. i'm not sure exactly where you were. >> i suppose where i stand on this and i want to be clear about this, is i think there is about this, is i think there is a lot of uncertainty in this issue. right. i feel that we are

coming to a new understanding of what it means to be a trans person. right? didn't used to person. right? we didn't used to have trans people have so many trans people around. were lots of around. there were lots of people around people who i think moved around the uncomfortably the world quite uncomfortably and comfortable and are now more comfortable because be out. because they can be out. >> why aren't those people called transvestites before? and i be rude, but if i don't mean to be rude, but if someone in clothes, someone was dressing in clothes, that would typically defined that would be typically defined as alternate gender, then as the alternate gender, then typically would as the alternate gender, then typic'been would as the alternate gender, then typic'been called would as the alternate gender, then typic'been called transvestite. have been called transvestite. yes, yes. >> but would have >> but that would not have involved sort of a full transition on. suppose transition on. so i suppose a transvestite, you wouldn't normally sort of take hormones and you would sort spend and you would sort of only spend part your dressed the part of your time dressed as the opposite sex. so a transgender person, the difference is you sort of take steps such as taking hormones, live taking hormones, and you live your entire life as the opposite genden your entire life as the opposite gender, to dressing gender, as opposed to dressing up gender, which up as the opposite gender, which is a transvestite would be. is what a transvestite would be. i might be the i mean, it might be the case that of people who had that sort of people who had similar needs urges similar needs and urges expressed that in different ways. when it wasn't sort of ways. so when it wasn't sort of deemed socially acceptable to be trans people would have been transvestite s you know, transvestite s or, you know, i think it's also it's also possible that there were a set

of people who were trans, but there wasn't. there just wasn't. >> this obsessive political focus on it that we have today. and i think, you know, i think you're in a you're right that in a fundamental it's not fundamental sense, it's not really per se. you really about biology per se. you can't your biology, but can't change your biology, but you how you choose to you can change how you choose to present yourself. we present yourself. and then we have decision as a society. have a decision as a society. we're we're going to accept have a decision as a society. we'rei we're going to accept have a decision as a society. we'rei thinke're going to accept have a decision as a society. we'rei thinke're gsomeone:cept have a decision as a society. we'rei thinke're gsomeone like: that. i think with someone like brianna, was obviously doing that. i think with someone like bri harm was obviously doing that. i think with someone like bri harm to was obviously doing that. i think with someone like bri harm to anyone bviously doing that. i think with someone like bri harm to anyone else, sly doing that. i think with someone like bri harm to anyone else, who oing that. i think with someone like bri harm to anyone else, who was no harm to anyone else, who was causing problems causing no problems by presenting i fully presenting as trans, i fully respect her right to go by whatever pronouns she wants to go by, and for us to respect that as their identity. now, there issues when this there are issues when this starts up against starts butting up against certain and access to certain rights and access to spaces and people abuse the spaces and people who abuse the system . um, as we know, does system. um, as we know, does happen. but at a fundamental level, if there are going to be some people who want to present differently in a different way, i can't see why we want i can't see a reason why we want to stop that. >> just want to clear as >> i just want to be clear as well, um, that actually everyone's shouting shame at rishi that rishi sunak and saying that actually he was doing was actually what he was doing was i quote, dehumanising. um, actually rishi sunak , if to actually rishi sunak, if you to listen um, jacob rees—mogg

listen to, um, jacob rees—mogg last night, in fact , i'll play last night, in fact, i'll play you the clip of what he was saying because suggesting saying because he was suggesting actually rishi. sorry, actually it was rishi. sorry, keir um, that had keir starmer, um, that had broken commons rules. >> did he make a mistake >> listen, did he make a mistake or is it a storm babet. i am appalled by the leader of the opposition's abuse of parliament procedure. so if you look at paragraph 2130 of erskine may, it says that members in debate should be brief and directly relate to proceedings , and relate to proceedings, and should not be phrased so as to be way intimidate or seek be in any way intimidate or seek to influence debate when referring in the referring to people in the galleries and mr sir keir starmer tried to influence the debate by referring to people in the galleries. this is strictly disorderly and i think sir keir should apologise to the house tomorrow. what do you the tomorrow. what do you think the chances are that happening? chances are of that happening? >> do you think >> very briefly. do you think keir should be the one keir starmer should be the one to apologise? >> no, absolutely not. mean >> no, absolutely not. i mean i think is there because >> no, absolutely not. i mean i tiyou is there because >> no, absolutely not. i mean i tiyou know, is there because >> no, absolutely not. i mean i tiyou know, if is there because >> no, absolutely not. i mean i tiyou know, if there's'e because >> no, absolutely not. i mean i tiyou know, if there's a because >> no, absolutely not. i mean i tiyou know, if there's a debate; , you know, if there's a debate on a particular piece of legislation you don't want to try sort change how mps try and sort of change how mps vote based on is in the vote based on who is in the chamber, what keir starmer was

pointing was that rishi pointing out was that rishi sunak something which sunak had said something which i believe dehumanising to trans believe is dehumanising to trans people dehumanise. people in front of dehumanise. >> do not want to make >> i mean, i do not want to make my about this, but my program all about this, but it about said that to point it is about said that to point out an actual fact that a woman doesn't have a penis, that that is somehow dehumanising. >> well, so i don't think that is an actual fact, right? i think that there's actually a lot of uncertainty around this and sort as a society, we are and sort of as a society, we are negotiate what it makes, negotiate ing what it makes, what it means to be what it what it means to be a woman, what it means to be a man. now, obviously female and male female, female and male people female, female and male people female, female and male is a scientific categorisation. male and an aduu categorisation. male and an adult a social adult man and woman is a social is categorisation, you is a social categorisation, you know, is adult know, and woman is an adult human female. >> that's that's one. >> that's one, that's one. >> that's one, that's one. >> that's one definition. so yeah, appalling. yeah, but it's appalling. >> have to stretched >> but so you have to stretched to, to accommodate a woman is an aduu to, to accommodate a woman is an adult human human female. what's happened these happened is that all these activists have grabbed a hold of that they have stretched that word. they have stretched it inch of its life it to within an inch of its life to try force it to to now try and force it to include men. but so do you. >> when you meet someone who's who's trans woman who sort of

who's a trans woman who sort of lived lived person, lived their lived person, lived for a trans for years, that person, a trans person. pronouns would you use? >> well, if they wanted me to be respectful to them, i would call them whatever wanted them whatever they wanted me to call them. >> so we're now just >> but so. so we're now just talking about language here. so i would when you're talking i would say when you're talking about pronouns, she how we about pronouns, she is how we refer right? but refer to a woman, right? but you're now saying doesn't you're now saying she doesn't just to him and she also just refer to him and she also refers to what i'm is refers to what i'm saying is person pronouns to me are absolutely irrelevant. >> the simple >> you cannot change the simple fact. i do need to move on fact. and i do need to move on in otherwise my whole in a minute. otherwise my whole program be on this issue in a minute. otherwise my whole progwe're be on this issue in a minute. otherwise my whole progwe're never on this issue in a minute. otherwise my whole progwe're never on thi to ;sue in a minute. otherwise my whole progwe're never on thito agree. and we're never going to agree. um, ultimately um, and ultimately everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but ultimately an adult human female adult female is a woman and an adult male a man . and you cannot. male is a man. and you cannot. and i don't this to be and i don't mean this to be rude. don't wish anyone any rude. i don't wish anyone any harm. mean to harm. i don't mean to be disrespectful anybody, disrespectful to anybody, but i do believe in biological fact, and i do believe that biological fact. and the respect of that is absolutely crucial to a smooth, functioning, decent society . functioning, decent society. >> but i think many people would read that as inconsistent . read that as inconsistent.

>> right? so because many people who are trans . right, so, so who are trans. right, so, so they can only be happy living as they can only be happy living as the opposite gender, right? if you're saying you cannot be that opposite gender, you must be the genderin opposite gender, you must be the gender in which you are. you can wander around. you were saying you can. you're then saying they're all deluded you they're all deluded and if you want, it's real, it's just deluded. >> if think all trans people >> if you think all trans people are deluded, a woman if you are are deluded, a woman if you are a who thinks that you're a man who thinks that you're a woman the only thing that woman and the only thing that makes happy wearing makes you happy is wearing a dress. you can wear 17 dresses at once if you want, you can throw on a couple of wigs, some lipstick and a bit of perfume and handbag. i don't and carry a handbag. i don't care, i wish you no ill harm. you yourself whatever you can call yourself whatever you to call yourself. but i you want to call yourself. but i don't blunt, but i'm don't mean to be blunt, but i'm going because it needs to going to be because it needs to be said. you are a woman. be said. you are not a woman. you are a man. sorry but it is a fact. well, i don't think that is a fact. >> i think man and woman, that's a category. then we can a social category. then we can have about what we have a discussion about what we should or should define as a man or a woman, but that you can't sort of really refer to biological fact because that's the realm of

male female, which is the male and female, which is the realm you're talking realm of biology. you're talking about categories. about social categories. we can debate it's if that's debate them. it's fine if that's your as to who you your position as to who you should treat. >> very strongly i feel >> i feel very strongly i feel that women's women's rights are being setting up being eroded. you're setting up all children schools all these children in schools onto hormones, onto these pathways of hormones, of mutilation, on of body mutilation, delusion, on mental issues, just so mental health issues, just so you accommodate these people you can accommodate these people that believe that there's something are not. something that they are not. >> say, if i've got a friend >> so say, if i've got a friend who's lived as a woman for five years, you would recognise them in street, essentially in the street, essentially as a woman a woman. okay. woman lived as a woman. okay. well, let me, let me let well, let me, let me, let me let me, let me end the question. right. so this is this a fact is that they have you if you that they have if you if you walk, pass them live a woman walk, pass them live as a woman because people think they're a woman. them in woman. if you walk past them in the would think the street, you would think they're a woman. do you think that they should have use that they should have to use a male changing room? >> if you're a man, yes. >> well, if you're a man, yes. >> well, if you're a man, yes. >> you do think that. so you >> so you do think that. so you think that people if think that people who think if you've have taken you've got to have taken hormones, they've. mean, hormones, they've. i mean, i feel bodies have changed. feel their bodies have changed. >> i uncomfortable having >> i feel uncomfortable having this conversation because there's people having their dinner their tea with their dinner and their tea with their

children. and i'm not really sure appropriate sure how appropriate all of this is i'm talking is for this time. i'm talking about and pieces, but at about bits and pieces, but at the end of the day, if you are a man and you have a penis, yes, get into the man's changing room, isn't you will never room, isn't it? you will never change my mind this. and change my mind on this. and likewise, i'm not sure i'll ever change yours. >> i think the only change yours. >> that i think the only change yours. >> that mighthink the only change yours. >> that might change only change yours. >> that might change your thing that might change your mind became close mind is if you became close friends trans person and mind is if you became close frie|not trans person and mind is if you became close frie|not sayingtrans person and mind is if you became close frie|not saying that person and mind is if you became close frie|not saying that becauseind i'm not saying that because i think you're, bigoted and think you're, like, bigoted and you don't know them. >> just that for me >> i'm just saying that for me as well. you know, there's lots of issues that i was confused about. then became good about. then i became good friends people, and friends with trans people, and now i very differently friends with trans people, and now i it. very differently about it. >> w- about it. >> doesn't seem e doesn't seem no, no, >> i mean, doesn't seem no, no, no, we'll never we're never going respectfully >> um, let's respectfully disagree, conscious >> um, let's respectfully ddo gree, conscious >> um, let's respectfully ddo gree want conscious >> um, let's respectfully d do gree want my conscious >> um, let's respectfully ddo gree want my entire )us >> um, let's respectfully ddo gree want my entire program i do not want my entire program to this matter. to be caught up on this matter. so something so let's talk about something else. i'll stick with politics, though, don't mind, though, if you don't mind, because he was asked because rishi sunak he was asked today he would today whether or not he would potentially bring back boris johnson into the cabinet. sir alan, what's happened with david cameron? he cameron? and i've got to say, he didn't necessarily straightly rule that out. what would you makethink he probably should >> i think he probably should have just ruled it out. it does >> i think he probably should have _like ruled it out. it does >> i think he probably should have _likeruibit it out. it does >> i think he probably should have _likeruibit ofout. it does >> i think he probably should have _likeruibit of an. it does >> i think he probably should have _likeruibit of an absurdity >> i think he probably should haithe ikeruibit of an absurdity >> i think he probably should haithe ikerloft of an absurdity >> i think he probably should haithe ikerlof it.f an absurdity >> i think he probably should haithe ikerlof it. it's absurdity >> i think he probably should haithe ikerlof it. it's quite �*dity on the face of it. it's quite clear that boris and rishi don't

get boris clear that boris and rishi don't get into boris clear that boris and rishi don't get into the boris clear that boris and rishi don't get into the cabinet, boris clear that boris and rishi don't get into the cabinet, it boris clear that boris and rishi don't get into the cabinet, it would back into the cabinet, it would be a huge distraction have be a huge distraction to have another minister in another former prime minister in there. would there. the question would be repeated is boris about to go back is back into number 10? is a challenge to be mounted? challenge about to be mounted? i mean, the, you know , mean, perhaps in the, you know, uh, 1 in 1,000,000 worlds where rishi wins an election and in rishi wins an election and is in a powerful kind of political position, back position, he could bring back someone suppose someone like boris. i suppose you have to also have you then have to ask. also have to say, is boris particularly popular? he's popular amongst some people, but a lot of people still partygate still hate him. and partygate did a damage to his did a lot of damage to his reputation and on top of that, would a competent would he be a competent minister? think boris minister? i don't think boris was be to was ever seen to be able to manage kind department or manage a kind of department or a brief, well. maybe brief, particularly well. maybe there's do there's some roles he could do well kind like well as more of kind of like a spokesperson as a public figure, but doesn't seem like he's really put in really someone you put in a department to department because you want to see major reform see some kind of major reform done. ever been boris done. that's not ever been boris focus on some specific policy detail. >> uh, would you welcome boris back into the bosom of cabinet? >> i think this is a much less controversial topic than the last one, isn't it? i think it seems kind of desperate, the sort to suggest you might sort of to suggest you might have boris johnson back, although, to be honest, reading this think rishi

this story, i don't think rishi sunak did even suggest that. i think just trying to think he was just trying to avoid question. that avoid the question. isn't that he of a he seems maybe a bit of a non—story telegraph, non—story from the telegraph, who fill some who were trying to fill some column find column inches, but what i find quite interesting, though, about politicians an politicians is they have an absolute special knack of avoiding questions. >> when you politician >> so when you see a politician ask more >> so when you see a politician ask than more >> so when you see a politician ask than not more >> so when you see a politician ask than not they more >> so when you see a politician ask than not they justore >> so when you see a politician ask than not they just go, ah, often than not they just go, ah, all the and you're all around the houses and you're sitting there going, what's that got with issue got to do? with the issue in hand? what hand? and what i find interesting about sunak interesting about rishi sunak is on issues. he on some controversial issues. he doesn't took doesn't do that. like he took that day with, that bet the other day with, i think was morgan. think it was piers morgan. i think it was piers morgan. i think it was £1,000 or whatever. i'll get uh, you know, i'll get someone, uh, you know, asylum the plane to asylum seekers on the plane to rwanda. and there rwanda. and i sit there and i think, wouldn't have think, why wouldn't you have just piers morgan, just said to piers morgan, you know what? i'm not going to give you soundbite , but it's not you that soundbite, but it's not going happen. passionate going to happen. i'm passionate and, committed to my, and, you know, committed to my, um, you know, my strategy. and i'm going everything that i'm going to do everything that i'm going to do everything that i can to make it possible, speak to a year, how to me in a year, see how i've got on. to me in a year, see how i've goti»n. to me in a year, see how i've got i »n. you've to me in a year, see how i've goti»n. you've got to me in a year, see how i've got i »n. you've got to >> i mean, you've got to remember, i think you know, rishi career, which rishi sunaks career, which was that getting over that he kept getting vastly over promoted, you know, he only became chancellor because became chancellor and because sajid got sacked, because sajid javid got sacked, because dominic couldn't pick dominic cummings couldn't pick

his, and rishi sunak his, his adviser and rishi sunak got put in that position because dominic cummings thought he would more pliable to would be sort of more pliable to his and rishi sunak has his demands and rishi sunak has suddenly found himself prime minister experience suddenly found himself prime mibeing experience suddenly found himself prime mibeing politician experience suddenly found himself prime mibeing politician and.perience of being a politician and without the nous that one needs. i mean, he also does just seem socially strange. you socially quite strange. you know, even in that sort of interview we watched before where about, you where he was talking about, you know, death of know, the tragic death of brianna , he wasn't really brianna ghey, he wasn't really managing to perform sincerity. he almost looked like he was sort of cracking a smile , like sort of cracking a smile, like he's he's a strange person. this is not i don't think he's the manifestation of evil, right? i mean, quite an mean, maybe he's just quite an awkward but he doesn't awkward person, but he doesn't seem someone who's seem to me someone who's particularly adept at coming across of human and across as sort of human and a good guy. >> do like him? uh rishi >> do you like him? uh rishi sunak. i'll throw it open to you. i can almost hear you. i can almost hear you shouting at the screens, because know that can almost hear you shouting at the screans, because know that can almost hear you shouting at the scr

the next tory leader. well, what do you make to that one? john says. why on earth would he come back? rob says, um, boris johnson is the only person who can now save the tory party. and wayne says, look, stop beating around the bush . the bush. boris around the bush. the bush. boris would never take the pay cut. where do you stand on it all? get in touch gbviews@gbnews.com is how you reach me . after the is how you reach me. after the break, i want to talk to you about protesters. think about protesters. do you think we rules to we need even tougher rules to clamp people who wear clamp down on people who wear masks war memorials, masks, who clam war memorials, etc. or do you think the rules we are already enough? tell we have are already enough? tell me

>> you're listening to gb news. radio. >> hello, this is dewbs& co with me . michelle dewberry. i could me. michelle dewberry. i could tell you we're still carrying on this conversation . michael and this conversation. michael and l, this conversation. michael and i, we can't help ourselves about what is a woman. every time i see this guy, we always have this. >> i never bring up the topic. >> i never bring up the topic. >> i never bring up the topic. >> i always. anyway, you know what? hopefully we do

respectfully that's what respectfully debate. that's what this program all about anyway this program is all about anyway . the head public policy, . the head of public policy, institute economic affairs, institute of economic affairs, mark me , as mark lester, is alongside me, as is. been mentioned, is. i've just been mentioned, the editor at the contributing editor at novara media, michael walker. let's protest, shall we? let's talk protest, shall we? apparently now the police are said to have more powers to arrest protesters if they're wearing a mask, if they're climbing on memorials , or if climbing on war memorials, or if they're of taking , um, they're kind of taking, um, these flares. basically these flares. so basically a form of fireworks to protest. what do you make to this, matthew? do you think this is the is it necessary? the right move? is it necessary? look, a premise , we look, i think as a premise, we should respect the right to protest and people should be able to express on able to express themselves on the there's obvious need to >> there's an obvious need to here balance that with the level of disruption that caused. here balance that with the level of ddon'tion that caused. here balance that with the level of ddon't haveiat caused. here balance that with the level of ddon't have an caused. here balance that with the level of ddon't have an unlimited you don't have an unlimited right block the streets in right to block the streets in central infinite central london. um, and infinite p nor do you have a right to disrupt certain public spaces or climb on war memorials. i mean, it's unclear to me why the police necessarily need new powers. this quite lot powers. we have this quite a lot from government, where from the government, where there's some public authority not a way not quite performing in a way they'd rather than they'd like. and rather than

sorting the managerial sorting out the managerial issues that, sorting out the managerial issue say that, sorting out the managerial issue say we're that, sorting out the managerial issuesay we're going that, they say we're going to create a new power. we're going to enforce, we're going to change the than ensure the the law rather than ensure the existing enforced. existing laws are enforced. i think someone is being think if someone is being disrupted there are disrupted or protest, there are already of that can already plenty of laws that can be used against them. i'd be used against them. and i'd like laws used like to see those laws used before additional ones to before adding additional ones to the statute books. >> michael . >> michael. >> michael. >> i mean, some of these seem impractical. >> so in terms of face covering, what do you do if someone's, you know, very worried about covid and a face mask know, very worried about covid anif a face mask know, very worried about covid anif winter a face mask know, very worried about covid anif winter and a face mask know, very worried about covid anif winter and someone's;k or if it's winter and someone's wearing being wearing them to stop being so ridiculous ? ridiculous? >> w- w“ >> well, i mean, sorry i'm being facetious. apologise. >> there clearly practical >> there are clearly practical problems with that because i think at the moment. think so at the moment. >> the that the >> it is the case that the police um , the police can be given, um, the right to say you should take off your face covering and then if your face covering and then if you , then arrest you refuse, then they can arrest you. already that you. they've already got that right. will be right. so what this will be doing if you're doing is saying if you're covering face, they can covering your face, they can immediately arrest you because you've now you've committed a crime. now you've committed a crime. now you see how that would be. you can see how that would be. >> what about religious ambiguous? what about a protest wearing face covering? >> mean , that's going to >> yeah. i mean, that's going to be incredibly difficult to police, isn't it? >> i'm how practical

>> so i'm not sure how practical this is. i would say at the same time, because, you know, i actually agree everything actually agree with everything matt think , you matt said there. i do think, you know, i think people have the right people right to protest, but people also have right about also have the right to go about their is there limit? >> because usual way sort >> because usual way and we sort of society where of debate as a society where that line should be, but where is line? that line should be, but where is because i know that you're >> because i know that you're quite, , passionate about the quite, um, passionate about the pro—palestine protest that happened every happened pretty much every single weekend. now, uh, should there line , should people there be a line, should people be police are be saying, the police are saying, right, you know what? enough every enough now you've done it every single or not? single weekend or not? >> difficult >> well, i think it's difficult to enough when what i to say enough now when what i think is a genocidal war is still on. so, still going on. right? so, i mean, is the international mean, this is the international court justice. i don't know court of justice. i don't know why did that. why they did that. >> genocide. they >> there's a genocide. they haven't. deluded i >> -- >> they've said it's plausible. >> they've said it's plausible. >> they can you can say >> well, they can you can say anything is plausible. but it's anything is plausible. but it's an absolutely absurd claim. if something no something is no, there is no urban in human urban warfare in human history that to deaths that has led to fewer deaths than going on in gaza than what is going on in gaza right israeli military right now. the israeli military spends more than anyone right now. the israeli military spenensuring than anyone right now. the israeli military spenensuring civiliansyone else ensuring that civilians have the opportunity to get away from others. gunfire. if you want to blame anyone for a genocide palestinian people,

want to blame anyone for a genhamas palestinian people, want to blame anyone for a genhamas palestirliterally3le, it's hamas who are literally hiding them and firing hiding beneath them and firing rockets civilians and when in rockets at civilians and when in october 7th and in an effort to mass murder jewish people, now mass murderjewish people, now thatis mass murderjewish people, now that is attempted genocide. that is an attempted genocide. >> think when yoav galant >> do you think when yoav galant said that we didn't matter what yoav galant says? >> well, it's actually it does matter what you say because he is secretary. it matter what you say because he is in secretary. it matter what you say because he is in ofcretary. it matter what you say because he is in of international does in terms of international law. no, but he not one law. no, but he is not the one managing gaza. managing the operation in gaza. he's not the charge of he's not the one in charge of the defence secretary. he's not the one in charge of the defhe's secretary. he's not the one in charge of the defhe's se(defence >> he he's the defence secretary. is in charge of secretary. he is in charge of what's going in gaza rhetoric. >> his rhetoric is what >> his rhetoric is not what matters here. what matters here is actually happens. is what actually happens. okay. >> so what's actually happening on people on the ground? 26,000 people have killed, 11,000, 11,000 children. >> on many those hamas >> on how many of those hamas fighters? probably about 10,000. how hit how many of those have been hit by. rockets, 11,000, by. so those 11 rockets, 11,000, 11,000 children varne have been killed , about 70, 70, according killed, about 70, 70, according to hamas, 70% of buildings in gaza have been completely destroyed. >> now the hamas figures, right. or the figures from the gaza ministry of health, they are accepted by the un. they're actually accepted. this was in an israeli newspaper recently. they're by israeli

they're accepted by the israeli intelligence. that's the best numbers and in numbers they've got. and in every conflict, they have every past conflict, they have turned be true. right. so turned out to be true. right. so this idea that we can people are seeing as well. this idea that we can people are see it's as well. this idea that we can people are see it's 26,000 as well. this idea that we can people are see it's 26,000 civilians. this idea that we can people are see it s 26,000 civilians. this idea that we can people are see it is 26,000 civilians. this idea that we can people are see it is a 26,000 civilians. this idea that we can people are see it is a large 00 civilians. this idea that we can people are see it is a large numberans. >> it is a large number of military fighters, including those 11,000 of them are children. >> right. >> right. >> no one is disagreeing that 11,000 of children . if 11,000 of them are children. if you carnage to stop in you want the carnage to stop in gaza, actually very simple. gaza, it's actually very simple. >> needs a handbag. >> hamas needs a handbag. >> hamas needs a handbag. >> what describing now >> so what you're describing now is what you're describing now is collective is what you're describing now is col|no,ve no no. that the >> no, no no no. that is the punishment going on. there is the uses the fact that hamas uses children as shields they as children as shields as they as well. to fight, so well. there isn't to fight, so there isn't actually evidence about them using them as shields. . absolutely. shields. there is. absolutely. evans obviously, it's evans the music, obviously, it's obviously warfare, but obviously urban warfare, but i think also mis sort of think you're also mis sort of misaligning or misrepresenting what is the stated ambition of these israeli politicians because netanyahu isn't standing up there and saying, i want to get rid of these terrorists so we have two state solution. >> netanyahu is saying, we want to hamas. to completely destroy hamas. so the place can israel. the whole place can be israel. that stated policy. that that is his stated policy. that is his stated policy. he stood up united nations and up at the united nations and held the whole

held up a picture of the whole of and palestine and of israel and palestine and said, all be quite said, this will all be quite clear which to remove clear here, which is to remove the threat against israelis. so you had an advisor the you had an advisor to the defence secretary what defence secretary who said, what would is if we would be a good idea is if we allow diseases to spread , allow diseases to spread, because will hasten the because that will hasten the process whereby everyone leaves gaza. process whereby everyone leaves gaza . you've got the defence, gaza. you've got the defence, not the defence. sorry the interior minister and the economy minister. so two very high positions in in the government are both speaking government who are both speaking at conventions where they talk about resettling gaza now , that about resettling gaza now, that is absolutely against international i don't agree international law. i don't agree with any of that. >> i think that is extremely. do you think they should be fired from the cabinet? i do, i think they should be from they should be fired from advocate why don't advocate for the and why don't you don't think you why don't you think they have been fired from the cabinet? because it's a democratic policy that requires a what if a broad coalition. and what if what if, what if the what if, what if, what if the policy israel, what if the policy of israel, what if the israeli want to kill lots israeli people want to kill lots of the of palestinians because all the polls want. >> e'm- >> they want to go even harder. >> they want to go even harder. >> is interesting >> hang on. that is interesting point there to make interesting time going

oh, and so it continues . oh, and so it continues. i'm michelle dewberry till seven. the head of public policy at the institute of economic affairs, mark lester, alongside me, as is the contributing editor of novara mike walker, lots novara media. mike walker, lots of you guys have been getting in touch. there's a lot of love for bofis touch. there's a lot of love for boris to make a return to cabinet. i've got to also say, though, there's a lot of people that are not having absolutely any . um, the rishi sunak any of it. um, the rishi sunak debate again , you've got debate again, you've got different opinions on whether or not he should apologise. um, the starmer u—turn was people are suggesting whether or not labour is still going to commit to this 28 billion a year on green policies . by now, seems policies. by now, it seems apparent is not going apparent that that is not going to that's to happen. apparently that's rishi fault for putting rishi sunak's fault for putting the such mess , the country into such a mess, and less money and therefore we have less money to . and, um, natalia , to spend. and, um, natalia, we're talking about protests and whether or not we need additional powers. additional protest powers. if you're your face, you're going to cover your face, if going to climb war if you're going to climb war memorials, to

memorials, or are you going to have these flares, you have these flares, should you be clamped natalia clamped down harder? uh, natalia says that the protests the says that the protests in the country , in the have got out country, in the uk have got out of control and that something needs done on, uh, that needs to be done on, uh, that then sparked a conversation between two about whether, between us two about whether, sorry, two whether or not, sorry, these two whether or not, um , the pro—palestine protests um, the pro—palestine protests should be clamped down a little bit over the weekends. they're taking aren't they? taking place now, aren't they? every weekend now, which every single weekend now, which of wants pick up? because of you wants to pick up? because we quite a heated we were having quite a heated debate i we'd return debate then i said we'd return to shall . um, i to it. and so we shall. um, i don't had the final don't know who had the final word . was it? do you want to word. was it? do you want to pick back up? >> well, i going >> well, yeah. i mean, going back to these protests. >> think is this >> so i think there is this a right protest? you know, right to protest? you know, i don't right don't begrudge their right to protest, though. i think we should the should be very careful about the where to. there where this is getting to. there have obviously cases where, have been obviously cases where, um protests arrested um, protests have been arrested over remarks over their comments and remarks and, levels and, and kind of extreme levels of anti—semitism. but it kind of bnngs of anti—semitism. but it kind of brings us back to this point about what are the protesters protesting about? and it's this rhetoric river rhetoric around from the river to want to the sea. now, if you want to talk about genocide, that is a genocidal call saying that there should for all should be a mahyar tousi for all the time river to the the time from a river to the

sea, netanyahu said sea, benjamin netanyahu said that weeks ago, that about two weeks ago, saying, palestinian that about two weeks ago, sayin from palestinian that about two weeks ago, sayin from the estinian that about two weeks ago, sayin from the sea. ian state from river to the sea. >> you say >> what about if you say you want state? want an israeli state? >> you say want >> what if you say you want an israeli river israeli state from the river to the well, israeli state from the river to thewell, don't israeli state from the river to the well, don't think there >> well, i don't think there should be an but that's that's what minister what the prime minister of israel wants. no. >> we supporting his war? >> right. that's what i'm saying. is saying. bibi's war. this is about whether israel should have about whether israel should have a or about whether israel should have a talk or about whether israel should have a talk over or about whether israel should have a talk over each or about whether israel should have a talk over each other, or not talk over each other, because no one can hear either of your points. >> carry on. >> emm- emm— >> and whether or not hamas should >> and whether or not hamas shoso >> and whether or not hamas sho so know >> and whether or not hamas shoso know this from >> so i want to know this from you, michael. juan do you think hamas existing you, michael. juan do you think ha gaza? existing you, michael. juan do you think ha gaza? think existing you, michael. juan do you think ha gaza? think they ;ting in gaza? do you think they should be the governing authority should be the governing aut i )rity should be the governing auti don't choose >> i don't get to choose who's going to be the governing authority. no, you got to govern it. >> no, no, you got to govern it. you control israel you don't want to control israel in no. okay. and in an ideal world. no. okay. and do should do you think the hostages should be okay. so you want both of >> okay. so you want both of those things to happen. >> do you >> how do you how do you functionally how do we get there. >> well, so there's a difference between ideal >> well, so there's a difference betweeso ideal >> well, so there's a difference betweeso i ideal >> well, so there's a difference betweeso i don't ideal >> well, so there's a difference betweeso i don't think deal world. so i don't think completely destroying is completely destroying hamas is a realistic for a war. and i realistic aim for a war. and i think if you set the destruction of your aim for a war, of hamas as your aim for a war, what will doing is what you will end up doing is destroying entirety destroying the entire entirety of which is what they are. of gaza, which is what they are. well, on the way doing , well, on the way to doing, right? 26,000 right? they've killed 26,000

people, they've destroyed 70% of the buildings. so not the buildings. so it's not a question whether question of whether or not i want hamas to in control of want hamas to be in control of gaza. is, what are gaza. the question is, what are the of this and is the aims of this war and what is this you this war doing? also, you mentioned the hostages there. of course, the course, everyone wants the hostages released hostages to be released now. i think everyone recognises, including parents of the including the parents of the hostages in israel the moment hostages in israel at the moment that are going that the only way you are going to hostages be released is to have hostages be released is some of deal with hamas, some kind of deal with hamas, right. so the idea that the retrieving the hostages and having a ceasefire are sort of two things in, in, in opposition , the only way you can retrieve the hostages is by having a ceasefire, is by a ceasefire, is by coming to a deal with hamas. >> you need if you're going deal with hamas. >>comelou need if you're going deal with hamas. >>come to need if you're going deal with hamas. >>come to aieed if you're going deal with hamas. >>come to a dealf you're going deal with hamas. >>come to a dealf you hamas,; to come to a deal with hamas, which an end which you might want as an end goal which you might want as an end goal. i don't think that's >> i don't i don't think that's necessarily way this will necessarily the way this will will in short will end. but in the short tum, there with hamas. there will be deals with hamas. it position it needs to come from a position of israel is already if >> i mean, israel is already if israel doesn't have if it doesn't have strength. doesn't have any strength. i just to this just want to go back to this point hamas. we didn't point about hamas. we didn't say thiswe didn't say, oh, islamic >> we didn't say, oh, islamic state going there state is going to be there forever. was terrible. and forever. we it was terrible. and awful awful very forever. we it was terrible. and awflthings awful very forever. we it was terrible. and awflthings a\during very forever. we it was terrible. and awflthings a\during war. y bad things happen during war. but islamic state is

but we said islamic state is a threat to world, is a threat threat to the world, is a threat to our safety, and therefore it needs be removed. after needs to be removed. now after what happened, there was a ceasefire october ceasefire in october, october 6th. unfortunately hamas broke that ceasefire a mass that ceasefire through a mass murder campaign and murder and rape campaign and therefore it's no longer viable for hamas continue governing for hamas to continue governing in gaza. and i'd like to a in gaza. and i'd like to see a two the two in gaza. and i'd like to see a two solution the two in gaza. and i'd like to see a two solution can'tthe two in gaza. and i'd like to see a two solution can't involve state solution can't involve hamas . hamas state solution can't involve hamas. hamas has stated intent state solution can't involve hilo as. hamas has stated intent state solution can't involve hilo destroy1as has stated intent state solution can't involve hilo destroy israels stated intent state solution can't involve hilo destroy israel . stated intent state solution can't involve hilo destroy israel . they're ntent is to destroy israel. they're not state solution party. not a two state solution party. they're a genocidal party. they want destroy israel. they're a genocidal party. they warso destroy israel. they're a genocidal party. they warso dereason,'ael. they're a genocidal party. they warso dereason, iel. they're a genocidal party. they warso dereason, i mean , the >> so the reason, i mean, the islamic hamas comparison, islamic state, hamas comparison, islamic state, hamas comparison, i think is interesting. and it's also incredibly incorrect also incredibly wrong, incorrect . so isis were basically an international jihadist movement , international jihadist movement, right? they didn't have deep roots where they were. so you actually could bomb them out of existence weren't existence because they weren't really speaking to an underlying injustice. they didn't have widespread the widespread support among the people. been in people. they'd only been in control for sort of six months. when them. control for sort of six months. when you're them. control for sort of six months. when you're talking them. control for sort of six months. when you're talking about them. control for sort of six months. when you're talking about hamas , when you're talking about hamas, they up movement, they are a bottom up movement, which is very popular in gaza because gazans have been under illegal occupation for 56 years, 56 years. >> so gaza hasn't been occupied since 2000. it has, according to

international law and according to the has. to the un, it has. >> they pulled out the settlers, but control the borders. >> not that >> hamas is not that popular in gaza. hamas has won a single election through election and then through anyone from palestinian authority election and then through anyone frorbuildinglestinian authority election and then through anyone frorbuilding tops|ian authority election and then through anyone frorbuilding tops and authority election and then through anyone frorbuilding tops and hasn'tty election and then through anyone frorbuilding tops and hasn't had election and then through anyone fro electioni tops and hasn't had election and then through anyone fro election since.and hasn't had election and then through anyone fro election since. they're1't had election and then through anyone fro election since. they're not ad an election since. they're not a democratically chosen authority. that be there forever. that must be there forever. >> go . look, you know, >> there you go. look, you know, you probably get sense as you probably get the sense as well. we could on this well. we could carry on this conversation, this debate for a very but very long time. but unfortunately, is all i've unfortunately, that is all i've got time for very different opinions . got time for very different opinions. some of you will, like some of will dislike . you've some of you will dislike. you've got minds at home, got your own minds at home, so i shall it with you to shall leave it with you to decide and you decide what and who you agree with. michael with. but for now, michael walker, time. walker, thank you for your time. matthew . thank for your matthew laza. thank you for your time. know, you? time. and you know, don't you? you important so you are very important to me. so thank you very much spending thank you very much for spending your i very your last hour with me. i very much appreciate it. have a fantastic don't fantastic night. don't go anywhere nigel farage is up anywhere. but nigel farage is up next . a brighter next the night. a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> hello again. it's aidan

mcgivern here from the met office with the gb news forecast hill snow continues in the north dunng hill snow continues in the north during the next 24 hours. spells of rain at lower levels and further south across the country as milder atlantic air starts to take over. that's been pushing up against cold arctic air in the north, and in between we've had a spell of rain, sleet and hill snow. some significant snow continues to build up from the peak district into the southern uplands, and also for the tops of the hills in northern ireland could some disruption could cause some disruption overnight in places, but elsewhere, well, really at lower levels it's rain and certainly in the south a very mild night to come. ten celsius with heavy showers for parts of wales, the south and southwest. those continue during friday. further bouts of rain or showers moving through parts of england and wales. some brighter interludes at times, but a gusty wind . at times, but a gusty wind. meanwhile, the rain, sleet and snow pushes north, increasingly affecting eastern scotland, where significant snow will build up during the second half of friday and into the start of

the weekend. 20cm over the grampians, for example. but rain generally at lower levels as we begin the weekend for the north and east of scotland. elsewhere brighter spells for many on saturday morning. certainly some sunshine for the north, central and eastern parts of england, but further showers come through from the west later on and it's going to be much milder across most of the uk through the weekend, the far weekend, except for the far nonh weekend, except for the far north of scotland . north of scotland. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> good evening. well, keir starmer u turns on a big green pledge . i'll be asking is there

pledge. i'll be asking is there really any difference now between the two parties? it was over 50 years ago, but a british soldier is now up on a murder charge for what happened in northern ireland in 19 1972. isn't we drew a line isn't it time we drew a line under the whole thing? an extraordinary story of a migrant living on dover beach. that wants to leave country. but wants to leave the country. but the authorities won't let him . the authorities won't let him. and tucker carlson has interviewed putin. it'll be out at 11 pm. tonight, uk time. interviewed putin. it'll be out at 11 pm. tonight, uk time . was at 11 pm. tonight, uk time. was he right to go and do the interview? all of that and much more after the news with polly middlehurst . nigel middlehurst. nigel >> thank you. good evening. well, the top story from the gb newsroom tonight is that labour has it's axing has confirmed it's axing billions of pounds from its commitment to environmental issues. sir keir starmer said today the pledge, one of the party's flagship policies, will be back . to almost £24 be scaled back. to almost £24 billion instead of the original 28 billion. he says labour has

had to