good evening, fellow travellers . good evening, fellow travellers. it's lovely to have you with me for another episode of the neil oliver show on gb news tv online and on radio. this week i'll be talking to one of the lead campaigners of the infected blood scandal that affected tens of thousands of people between 1970 and the early 1990s. jason evans lost both his father and his uncle to transfusions and has worked tirelessly for justice ever since. i'll be asking why some american politicians are keen to take control of the tiktok platform. is it ethical .7 what does it mean is it ethical? what does it mean for free speech? associate director at the academy of

ideas, alastair donald, joins me to discuss plus plenty of discussion with my panellist, political commentator and intellect, frank furedi. but first, an update on the latest . news. >> good evening from the gb newsroom i'm sam francis. 6:01. and our top story tonight. russia's black sea fleet is now functionally inactive. according to the uk's defence secretary. that's after a massive ukrainian missile strike on sevastopol. for those watching on tv , this for those watching on tv, this was the moment that the russian navy vessels in the area were targeted and struck . security targeted and struck. security sources have told gb news that uk supplied storm shadow missiles were used in that strike, and we understand a major military communications centre has also been damaged. it marks the largest attack on the

russian controlled port in the war, so far, as tensions in the region continue to escalate . region continue to escalate. meanwhile, four suspects have been taken to russia's investigative committee headquarters following friday's terror attack. the islamic state group has claimed responsibility for the shooting, which we now know has killed more than 130 people. the us has backed that claim, but russia is continuing to suggest that ukraine was involved. allegations, though kyiv has denied . well, tonight kyiv has denied. well, tonight we've learned that a boy aged just 12 years old has been charged with attempted murder after a teenage girl was stabbed in kent. the incident happened in kent. the incident happened in sittingbourne shortly before 4:00 on friday afternoon. we know that the victim was taken to a london hospital to receive treatment. she is now , we treatment. she is now, we understand, in a stable condition. the boy , who cannot condition. the boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, will appearin be named for legal reasons, will appear in court tomorrow. in other news, simon harris has been confirmed as the new leader

of fine gael party in ireland , of fine gael party in ireland, paving the way for him to become the country's youngest premier it follows the surprise resignation of leo varadkar on wednesday of this week for what he described as personal and political reasons. mr harris is expected to become ireland's youngest taoiseach after the easter recess , and he said today easter recess, and he said today that the politics should be a force for good. oh enterprise. >> equality of opportunity, integrity and security. i have beenin integrity and security. i have been in this party since i was 15 years old, and those values mean and meant everything to me because i believe in public service. i believe in the power of politics to make a difference. i believe that politics as a profession can make people's lives better. >> the british museum was forced to close today as hundreds of pro—palestine and environmental protests gathered outside. activists were seen waving banners and palestinian flags

and shouting hands off the middle east! the group calling itself the energy embargo for palestine, says they will keep targeting the museum until it ends its £50 million partnership with bp . and finally, fast food with bp. and finally, fast food was given a new meaning in paris today as cafe staff took part in the traditional waiters race. the famous course de cafe returned this afternoon after a 13 year break. around 200 waiters raced through the city streets carefully balancing a tray with a pastry cup of coffee and a glass of tap water on top. well, it was first held in 1914 and even today, waiters are still expected to dress in their sunday best, with, of course, paris being the city of style . paris being the city of style. this year's winners went home with a complimentary meal and tickets to the paris olympics opening opening ceremony. tickets to the paris olympics opening opening ceremony . those opening opening ceremony. those are the headlines for more. you can sign up to gb news alerts. just scan the qr code on your screen or go to

gbnews.com/alerts. >> it's been a bad year for poor people inadvertently occupying desirable beachfront property. it would appear that acquisitive eyes have recently turned towards gaza, where the rubble of palestinian homes rests on valuable real estate overlooking the sapphire blue waters of the mediterranean sea. us president joe biden's proposed port construction on the coast there, ostensibly to enable delivery of humanitarian aid, will apparently be built in part with that rubble rubble salted with the bones of gazan men, women and children, tens of thousands of them killed so far in the war, described as plausible genocide by the international court of justice . any of it court of justice. any of it might be bulldozed into the sea as foundations for that new

harbour, giving convenient access to that open air prison. that's some monument in prospect, buried at sea at a special meeting of the knesset foreign affairs and defence committee, benjamin netanyahu is reported to have said that that port can facilitate the exit of palestinians from gaza, so the military operations in gaza are either about making war on terror or preparing the ground for brownfield development , or for brownfield development, or perhaps both. who could say? gaza has been inhabited for thousands of years. president joe biden and his rival donald trump are both older, however, than the modern state of israel. but that's just a detail of the unimaginably long timeline of that ancient tortured landscape. in any event, in the modern world, everything of note is just business. jared kushner, son in law of president donald j. trump and sometime senior policy adviser to that president on matters middle eastern, spoke at harvard university in

february. quote, gaza's waterfront property could be very valuable, kushner lamented the money spent building the tunnels under gaza, and said it could have been better used instead for education and innovation . quote, it's a little innovation. quote, it's a little bit of an unfortunate situation. there but from israel's perspective, i would do my best to move the people out and clean it up. he said he didn't think israel had publicly stated it, didn't want the locals to move back towards their former homes, but but he said that if he was in charge of israel, his number one priority would be moving gazans out of the southern city of rafah, and that it might be possible to shovel those displaced souls already displaced souls already displaced more often in one lifetime than a person might count onto a spot somewhere in the negev desert in southern israel. quote i would just bulldoze something in the negev, he said. i would try to move the people in there. i think that's the better option so you can go

in and finish the job. i'm not picking on kushner particularly. he just happened to be recorded speaking the truth out loud . speaking the truth out loud. what he said at harvard is what many others think anyway . clear many others think anyway. clear out the gaza strip, ready for something else ? some one else. something else? some one else. business is business. and in the property business, as we have learned to say, it's all about location, location, location. it's not just the ruins of the middle east that offer opportunity for men and women of fertile imagination and iron will. before westerners arrived in hawaii, the place was a sovereign kingdom with its capital at lahaina on the emerald island of maui. last yean emerald island of maui. last year, the worst us wildfire in a century incinerated the place, killing around 100 people and destroying at a stroke 3% of the island's housing stock, much of it featuring the sort of sea views and beach access desired by some of the world's wealthiest people. native hawaiian residents, working class among them, had fought for

decades to resist development. but in a matter of hours, they lost everything anyway. in the aftermath , they were displaced. aftermath, they were displaced. but while their homes were gone, their mortgages were not, and those still had to be repaid . those still had to be repaid. many struggled in all sorts of ways, taking refuge in all sorts of temporary accommodation. suicide rates went up. there was a spike in the number of calls to a hotline for victims of domestic violence. many also fear big time developers will move in on lahaina and build the kind of luxury homes and condos they cannot afford. many questions remain about the maui fire, how it started, how it was handled or mishandled. many wonder who will buy those latter day palaces. business is business. and now, out of the mouths of individuals like kushner, mouths of individuals like kushner , we hear it clearly said kushner, we hear it clearly said war is too . business indeed a war is too. business indeed a racket. according to major general smedley butler , that general smedley butler, that most decorated us marine who said war was no more and no less than the oldest, most profitable

and most vicious racket of them all, a racket being the business of organised crime, of organised criminals. and now, in the 21st century, we see the business of war, the racket of war exposed in all its hawkish splendour as never before. the war in ukraine is also for profit , of course, is also for profit, of course, hundreds of billions of dollars, pounds and euros worth of profit for boeing, raytheon , lockheed for boeing, raytheon, lockheed martin, northrop grumman and the rest of the international arms industry and everyone else with access to the great money laundry service that is ukraine from washington to london to paris and back again. the cash tills are ringing . the human tills are ringing. the human traffickers are making record profits too. in ukraine, in borderless america, money, money everywhere. unless you're poor. and then there's the prospect of hundreds of billions more profit for the big business interests, standing ready and willing to harvest the proceeds of the inevitable rebuild of shattered ukraine down half a million citizens and counting. think of

all the vacated properties there, the brownfield sites ripe for do overs, not to mention the exploitation of the shale oil and the fortunes to be made from the richest farmland in europe. i wonder just who has snapped the richest farmland in europe. i wonderjust who has snapped up those prospects. who is waiting patiently in the wings, ready to set do with more bulldozers and drill rigs, and the rest where there's muck and blood , there's there's muck and blood, there's brass. the west has already lost the ukraine war in every way that matters, even if the likes of immanuel macron of france continue to sabre rattle to pretend otherwise. it's all just business. war torn lands are also lands of opportunity for those with money to invest and profits to recoup. all of which explains why businessmen and the politicians who work for them, finding it uncomfortable , all finding it uncomfortable, all the brightly lit exposure of their recent dealings to the scrutiny of millions of ordinary people, enabled by the internet and independent journalists and social media, are presently moving heaven and earth to take full control of that other 21st

century business. that business that, as well as enabling the sharing of truth, also promises wealth beyond the dreams of avarice, which is to say, the information business which is also the control of information. and so the censoring and silencing of inconvenient truth . silencing of inconvenient truth. most recently, it's the video hosting platform tiktok that has been the subject of scrutiny, attracting the attention of avaricious types excited by the prospect of acquiring control of it acquiring, more to the point, perhaps the ability to silence and censor its contents. tiktok is in large part the chosen platform of the young, and right now the young are making it plain they don't approve. not one little bit of what's happening in gaza. general allen z and the rest young american jews among them, want the killing of gazans to stop using tiktok to share tens of millions of messages and videos about how just how furious they are, how much sympathy they have with the people of gaza and palestine , as people of gaza and palestine, as well as about business and money. the aggressive move on

tiktok is about control of the narrative. the antipathy of the us and others in the west towards tiktok is not new. it's been years now. in 2022, meta, parent company of facebook, sought to discredit its rival as a proxy for the chinese communist party, alleging tiktok was washing american brains in chinese propaganda. nothing came of it, though influential voices in the us spoke in defence of free speech and the first amendment, many suggest it's only since the events beginning only since the events beginning on october 7th that the anti tiktok sentiment has suddenly become the focus not just of the us president and his administration, but of bipartisan support. republican and democrat, bipartisan support. republican and democrat , for seizing and democrat, for seizing control of the platform. and so last week, the house of representatives passed a bill demanding the sale of tiktok to a company in the us. failure to submit failure to do so would incur a us national ban of the platform. the bill is yet to pass the senate, but the die is

surely cast, paving the way for the us. the us president, to designate as threats to national security any non—us social media, any such apps not just tiktok, but all social media apps with ties to any nation state the us decides is an enemy would have six months to sever that tie. it's no exaggeration to say that if the bill passes, then all at once any notions of then all at once any notions of the freedom of the internet will be undone and erased. in the us. so much for the first amendment. the government will have awarded itself the ability to censor, not misinformation , but the not misinformation, but the truth, only increasing its power over coverage of whatever happens next. there's no disguising what's really going on, what it's really all about. it's about money and the control money buys. it's about the centralising of power in all its forms. the pursuit of profit facilitated by war, by the abuse of people, abuse without consequences . this is a filthy, consequences. this is a filthy, rotten business and it stinks to high heaven . it certainly high heaven. it certainly doesn't look good when the necessary dealings are exposed for all to see. here's the thing

any righteousness the west ever had is dead. a corpse of a thing you can boot lipstick and perfume on it, but it's still ugly and it still stinks . the ugly and it still stinks. the powerful care not a jot for democracy, for the rights and freedom of the people they care about money control and power. and so now the necessity for the powerful is to take ultimate control and for all of the control once and for all of the information, means taking information, which means taking control of internet. this control of the internet. this week tiktok, but that's week it's tiktok, but that's just the template for something bigger, all bigger, something all encompassing . if they succeed, encompassing. if they succeed, then it's over . encompassing. if they succeed, then it's over. i'm joined then it's game over. i'm joined this week by the emeritus professor of sociology, frank furedi. frank the feeling all the time i get is that one government after another demonstrably doesn't trust the people and so needs to take control of everything that the people do and how they share information. >> yeah. i mean, i think they kind of given up on the people and from their point of view, the people are regarded as uneducated and, slightly unable

to understand the complexities of life. they, they kind of look down on the people in such a strong, patronising way . but not strong, patronising way. but not just that they blame the people for their own mistakes . so for their own mistakes. so whenever something goes wrong within governments, it's never their fault. within governments, it's never theirfault. it's within governments, it's never their fault. it's somehow the people misunderstood it. the people misunderstood it. the people didn't follow the right orders. and what you now have is a situation where they've changed their vocabulary to the point at which they call, they use the word populist, and populism as a shorthand for saying, that the people somehow are , are bad. they they cannot are, are bad. they they cannot be trusted. we need to almost insulate ourselves from the people in order to get on with the business of governing. and one of the i don't know if you noficed one of the i don't know if you noticed this, something new has happened which is that historically, governments were in the business of passing laws that were demanded by the people they passing new things they were passing new things that people wanted, whereas today , whenever new laws are today, whenever new laws are passed and whenever there are new things that are put on the

statute books, it's not the people that have asked for it. they have decided that this is what people need, that's what the people need, and that's a totally development where a totally new development where their reforms are their so—called reforms are something they invented for themselves. not by not from the people. >> in what sense can that be described meaningfully as democracy? >> well, you know, it is democracy because democracy is imperfect and unfortunately it's not really working all that well . but you can see hints of democracy coming to the fore . democracy coming to the fore. take the irish referendum recently there, the government imagined that they can just carry on and, you know, shove down people's throats their view of the world. they basically said that the family is not what we used to think, a man and a woman and marriage. it's what they call it, any durable relationship. and they thought, well, the irish people are too stupid to pick up on this. well, the irish people are too stupid to pick up on this . let's stupid to pick up on this. let's have a referendum. and of course, the people listened and the referendum gave them a chance show democracy chance to show that democracy can actually work.

>> it makes you wonder what is the future of referenda , because the future of referenda, because obviously a brexit delivered a result that the authorities did not seem to be ready for. and you cite another example in the in the recent irish referendum, surely, surely the state will be learning that referenda are problematic, to say the least. >> it is, and i think for our part, we have to really promote the idea of referendum. so whenever something new comes through, we should insist that. okay, well, if you think this is important, well, okay, well, if you think this is important, well , why don't you important, well, why don't you consult the electorate? let them decide. yay! or nay? and it seems to me that one of the ways in which the democratic deficits in which the democratic deficits in western europe can be corrected or or minimised is by allowing the people to have more access to referendums. i think that's the way forward here. >> here. we're on a break already , after which i'll be already, after which i'll be joined by the founder member of factor eight, a group set up by jason evans to try to get some sort of justice for all those affected by the infected blood

handed out in the early 1990s. you're watching the neil oliver show on gb news. don't go away

welcome back to the neil oliver show. to give you a little bit of background to my first guest this evening. jason evans lost his father, jonathan, when he was just four years old. back in october of 1993, jonathan was infected both hepatitis infected with both hepatitis c and hiv from infected factor eight blood products. jason also had an uncle who was infected with both viruses and died in 1996. this led jason to begin his investigative and campaign leading journey, and what followed was two decades and two decades of daily research, campaigning and lobbying, which, with the help of others, culminated in the announcement of the infected blood inquiry by theresa may in july 2017. now, jason has continued to work on

the campaign and inquiry ever since, and was responsible for proposing and leading the campaign for the infected blood compensation framework . jason compensation framework. jason joins me now. jason, thank you so much . great to be with you so much. great to be with you for joining us. it's half a forjoining us. it's half a lifetime ago when i was reading about the fact that it happened in the 80s. but can you can you give us your personal experience? sure. starting as early as you can really. >> so i mean, my first kind of direct memories at all are seeing my dad alive for the last time, which was my fourth birthday in 1993. he'd chosen to die at his parents house. he was, you know, dying of aids at this point, in that summer of 93. and i can remember being stood in that room holding , you stood in that room holding, you know, the first game boy with the purple buttons on it and having no sense, you know, that my dad was dying, but he was in the bed, you know, lots of wires, lots of. and then really,

you know, after that, i kind of have this vague memory of being at funeral and everyone at the funeral and everyone crying and the casket, and you know that those are my first memories. they're not happy memories. they're not happy memories. they're not happy memories. they're devastating memories. they're devastating memories. and so, yeah, i mean, i was, you know, born into the aftermath of this scandal, really. but it would be a learning curve me growing up learning curve for me growing up as to the true depths of how that all happened. >> and were the elders around you, you know, you're a little boy at this point. were the elders around you as energised as as angry and as as as as demanding of explanations? >> well, you know, before , >> well, you know, before, before my dad actually died, i have, i have a letter at home in 1990. so i would have been one, my self and my dad went to see his then mp david lightbourne, conservative mp at the time, and the letter says, you know, it's from that mp to my dad saying thank you for coming to see me at my surgery with your child the other day. and my dad was

campaigning compensation campaigning for compensation at that , so was that time, so he was campaigning. but honest campaigning. but to be honest with you, think when my dad with you, i think when my dad died, i think everyone was just so devastated by what had happened. there think happened. there was i think there was little sense at that time, you know, within my family that people were going to start campaigning. to be honest, i think everyone was just so distraught, especially the distraught, especially with the stigma at time . oh, stigma of aids at that time. oh, i mean, something that we're literally with the literally dealing with at the moment , even literally dealing with at the moment, even over literally dealing with at the moment , even over the last week moment, even over the last week i've speaking to. i've been speaking to. >> there's so much >> but there's so much attribution blame around attribution of blame around hiv attribution of blame around hiv at that time, it was so misunderstood. exactly what it was and how people had come to be in that predicament. especially someone like your dad who received it purely from a medical procedure that he was assured by all of the relevant authorities, was going to prolong his life. well well, that's right. >> i mean, at the time there was the famous quote from i think it was the chief of the manchester police at the time who said that aids victims were swirling in a cesspit of their making. cesspit of their own making.

that many, that was the attitude of many, many people , all, at the time, many people, all, at the time, you know , in my dad's personal you know, in my dad's personal case, i know before i was born, there was all kinds of it had a knock at the door one day, my parents from, a neighbour that lived on their cul de sac saying, that she had informed all of the neighbours that my dad , had aids or hiv after dad, had aids or hiv after they'd confided in her because she felt it was her moral duty to let everybody know. my mom , to let everybody know. my mom, was sacked. she worked at a bakery , and she was sacked from bakery, and she was sacked from herjob because bakery, and she was sacked from her job because the bakery, and she was sacked from herjob because the guy that ran her job because the guy that ran the bakery said she was a risk to staff and customers. >> frank, this is a tragedy. and a scandal in every possible sense of the word. is it not? >> it is. i mean, when you think about it, you know, some you wake up in the morning and you probably don't even know why this happens to you. and you kind of wonder, well, where is it going to lead to? and you realise that somehow these

forces beyond your control have turned your world upside down and are going to lead to your death? that's just a that is the almost like a greek tragedy in the making. >> where are you with the campaign now? i mean, it's been decades. where has anyone been compensated or is there any worthwhile development in the story? i think, you know, story? so i think, you know, just picking up there about things being outside of people's control, i think it's really important to important for people to understand with the blood scandal, what's really the scandal, what's really at the centre it isn't it's not centre of it isn't it's not blood transfusions. >> this blood product >> it was this blood product called factor eight, which was made together tens of made by mixing together tens of thousands of plasma donations from often high donors. you from often high risk donors. you know , we know i'm sure people know, we know i'm sure people have from american have heard from american prisons, row locations , prisons, skid row locations, etc. all together. etc. mixing them all together. and drug addicts and other and some drug addicts and other people who'd been who had been mixing their blood . exactly. and mixing their blood. exactly. and then it's then turned into this freeze dried white powder, which can be then dissolved. and the problem is you get one infected donor infects the whole batch in

every bottle of factory every single bottle of factory was with hepatitis was infected with hepatitis c through the 70s, and then a large portion in the 80s. but where we are with the campaign now , so people who were infected now, so people who were infected who are still alive, or, bereaved widows in october 2022 received an interim compensation payment of £100,000, which was welcomed but, payment of £100,000, which was welcomed but , the problem with welcomed but, the problem with that was two thirds of bereaved families are from where a person died, not in a relationship. so, for example, 380 of the hiv victims were were children , victims were were children, varne and more than half of those have died. so basically, if you died and you weren't in a relationship when you died, so far your family has got nothing. and we're talking about some of the very worst cases. just one example. it's truly heartbreaking , in our community, heartbreaking, in our community, there's a guy sam rushby, there's a guy called sam rushby, his father was infected with hiv, unwittingly infected his mother who was pregnant, gave

birth to a hiv positive daughter who the daughter died at three months old. but his whole family was dead from aids by the time he was three years old. no compensation in that case. >> and the fight just goes on, on and on, grinding away daily. >> the government right now, their position is they're not doing anything more until the inquiry publishes its final report on the 20th of may. but the inquiry is very clear. last april, in 23. don't wait for the final report. sir brian langstaff, the chair, said to the government do this now. get on with the compensation, make interim payments to the bereaved families. but the government haven't i'm running at a haven't moved. i'm running at a time now. haven't moved. i'm running at a timi now. haven't moved. i'm running at a timi will. haven't moved. i'm running at a timi will hope that you can come >> i will hope that you can come back and update us on this story again, but thank you for bringing attention at bringing it to our attention at the evans, thank the moment. jason evans, thank you. break, which is you. another break, which is what it's about. i have to what it's all about. i have to keep breaking. i will be keep on breaking. i will be joined afterwards by author and social alistair social commentator alistair donald to talk about whether tiktok america may on tiktok in america may be on borrowed you're watching borrowed time. you're watching neil news. don't go

neil oliver on gb news. don't go anywhere.

welcome back to the neil oliver show. tick tock, tiktok. no i haven't gone mad. but that could be the sound of time running out for gen z's favourite app this week. the us house of representatives passed a bill that will require the tiktok owner, bytedance, to sell the social media platform or face a nationwide ban. lawmakers argue it's because beijing based bytedance is a national security threat. true or not, things don't look great for tiktok. joining me to discuss its future , associate director of the academy of ideas author and social commentator alastair donald. thank you forjoining donald. thank you for joining me, alastair. thank you. what do you make of it? i'm very interested in this, not least because tiktok is the communications platform of the young. >> yes, and about 100 million

americans, i think. so, obviously it's quite a big deal. >> how do you read this sudden and it is sudden. this is an attitude towards tiktok that's been floating about for years and getting no traction. now there's bipartisan support. >> yeah, well, about four years ago i think trump was talking about banning it. it's come back because of the bill going through the house, just now, which is obviously under biden and has very much got bipartisan support in terms of the vote that went on last week. so it's not one party or the other. it seems to have cross—party support, and there seems to be quite a firm desire to deal with it. >> and why now ? i mean, it's >> and why now? i mean, it's a leading question, but always the attitude has been that it was a means by which china and the chinese communist party were were washing american brains in propaganda . yeah. and that propaganda. yeah. and that wasn't getting anywhere. now now, given recent events in the middle east, it seems to have

come back because people are upset at the way in which the young tiktok's main users are sharing information about the war in gaza. >> well, that might be one of the circumstances just now in which the bill's been considered. i mean, it's been under consideration to come back for quite a few months and presumably been timetabled through the through the american political system to come back. so i'm not sure that it's, it's that immediate the circumstance that immediate the circumstance that has brought it. that immediate the circumstance that has brought it . but what is that has brought it. but what is it about chinese? >> is it about chinese control of tiktok, which is alleged but neven of tiktok, which is alleged but never, never proven? no evidence for it? or is it about something else? >> i mean, the bill is called the protection bill against foreign ownership of apps , foreign ownership of apps, locations and lots of the people who've tried to justify the bill have talked about the dangers of chinese ownership of tiktok. that is, i think , overcooked.

that is, i think, overcooked. it's largely an international company owned by venture capitalists with a relatively small amount of state ownership, but also , it's quite interesting but also, it's quite interesting that the justifications for doing it these days kind of fuse into discussions about the general , more general dangers of general, more general dangers of tiktok. so it is a little bit like those that want to ban it or change the ownership situation so that a chinese company can't own it, are a little bit confused about the justifications for it. >> so probably, frank, how do you read it ? >> so probably, frank, how do you read it? you >> so probably, frank, how do you read it ? you know, i >> so probably, frank, how do you read it? you know, i mean, just just recently us intelligence had to admit that it had it could produce no evidence that tiktok had ever coordinated with beijing. and when asked for evidence of tiktok's actual threat, an fbi spokesman said, we have nothing to add. so if it's not about the threat from china, i think it's basically a protectionist measure to defend the american technology industry against

foreign competition, because some of the people that have beenin some of the people that have been in the forefront of pushing for this have been leading people in the tech sector who regard tiktok and its success as a rival that they would rather do without. >> and i think that's really been the really important thing. the american technology sector is really, really important, it's the most dynamic industry in the united states. and they are , you know, they are very are, you know, they are very much concerned about the fact that places like china have become formidable rivals for market shares. and i think that's really what has led, led, led to this over the years. >> that hasn't changed in recent years, even tiktok and all it represents as a, as a as a foreign presence has always, one would presume pose that same, threat to the tech industry. why now suddenly it garners bipartisan support and it's all guns blazing to take ownership or shut it down? >> well, you know , before all >> well, you know, before all this, i mean, the last 12

months, there's been non—stop hysteria about tiktok, not just about china, but about the fact of what it's doing to young people in america . so the main, people in america. so the main, panic that's been created about tiktok, the main justification for banning it in terms of censoring it has been on the grounds of the fact that people need to be particularly young people need to be protected from this. and i think what has happenedis this. and i think what has happened is that the cumulative effect of these panics about what what it's doing to young people has created a dynamic. if you read the newspapers, even here in britain , time and time here in britain, time and time again, we hear stories that young people are committing suicide . and time time we suicide. and time and time we hear that young people hear stories that young people are cutting themselves. they're doing things doing all these horrible things because of tiktok influencers. and i think that's really it is that which has really reached a peak point now that's been at stake here. >> what is the future, then, of freedom of speech? alastair? i mean, these are the means by

which, you know, facebook, google, tiktok, instagram , these google, tiktok, instagram, these are the means by which people share ideas , pass information share ideas, pass information back and forth. if the us government is going to take control of one of these platforms, does that not provide the blueprint for big state, just taking control of these information sharing platforms. >> yeah, i think tiktok and all the other social media are the new form of public square in many ways. so you want the freedom to be able to express yourself on these platforms. and over the last few years , we've over the last few years, we've seen more and more attempts to take control both in europe and the uk , but also in america. and the uk, but also in america. and the uk, but also in america. and the irony, i suppose , is that in the irony, i suppose, is that in some ways the controls that have been exerted or hoped to be exerted on social media in america, you know, in some ways mimic some of the controls that have have been exerted in china.

so they're not exactly defending a free public space or a free social space. >> where do people go? i mean, frank and i were talking earlier about democracy, you know, which in essence is the people, you know, and the people make their decisions and call for change based on their understanding of situations. and if they can't freely choose between platforms from which to garner information, getting formed and make decisions, then you know, what is the what is the future of democracy? if people are only given access to information as sanctioned by their government? yeah >> and obviously something like the twitter files, which were was the publication of all the data and information about what had gone on at twitter in the run up to elon musk taking over. obviously, that was quite revelatory about the way that constraints are exercised over various different social media platforms and that happens in

various different ways. it's sometimes it's been the big tech companies themselves. sometimes it's been in collusion with state organisations. but quite often what we're seeing just now is attempts to almost set up these independent regulators, as if that makes it somehow better because they're portrayed as being independent, but actually they're quite influential. >> and you don't think it has anything to do with timing that after all these years of, let's say it was a challenge to the tech sector, let's say it was it was posing this potential for the chinese communist party to be, you know, pushing propaganda that was contrary to american interests. you don't think it's got anything to do with the fact that that generation z are using tiktok to make plain their dissatisfaction with what's happening, their displeasure with happening. in gaza. with what's happening. in gaza. that's not that's not what the legislators have decided to move on, not an enemy, but because an ally is not getting the support they want from tiktok . they want from tiktok. >> no, i don't see it that directly. to be quite honest, i

don't see it as as, lots of people say it's, because , the people say it's, because, the chinese owners are scared of criticism of china or that the americans want to defy and the platform from the influence of chinese business and allied to the state. i don't i don't think that's the reason because, people who have looked into it, some of whom have, as far as i can see, very little time for tiktok, still can't find any evidence of that. so i, i think it's much more the general situation in the west just now . situation in the west just now. that's a nervousness about open discussion and debate , and that discussion and debate, and that is causing us to take a direction where those in control want to just put a lid on some of the things and have a bit exercise, a bit more control in terms of what's said and how people interact and surely interesting in america, home of the first amendment. >> you know, the that that tells the of america that the the people of america that the government shall not abridge freedom of speech. i mean, that's unequivocal that's a fairly unequivocal statement .

statement. >> yeah. yes it is. >> and it's happening everywhere. we're having a similar problems in the european union, where the european union is colluding with the tech companies to more or less achieve the same kind of result. it's happening here, and tiktok just happens to be much more prominent in the firing line. but all the tech companies, all the big tech companies are in the big tech companies are in the business of giving in and rolling and allowing speech rolling over and allowing speech to censored . the biggest to be censored. the biggest danger the moment the danger at the moment is the expansion of the meaning of hate speech, and the basically expanding the meaning of hate speech in order to use use it to basically censor any point of view that they dislike and that's becoming institutionalised. so we are having a mega problem here on, on, on these social platforms because democratic open discussion is really a no no. they really are trying to quarantine that in a in a systematic way at the moment. >> be interesting to see where generation z go next. you know, the future belongs to generation

z, and if they cannot share the information that they want shared, then they then they presumably must and shall look for other means by which they can share their message with one another, and they will invent new platforms. >> i mean, you cannot stop the kids from sharing stuff. >> let's hope not. another break. after which , i'll be break. after which, i'll be joined by american political columnist, pundit and former republican john leboutillier to discuss whether it's time to ban tiktok. so another take on the same tiktok don't go away

welcome back to the neil oliver show. now, the us house of representatives has voted through the euphemistically called protecting americans from foreign adversary controlled applications act, which would essentially ban tiktok and the freedom of 170 million tiktok

users to express themselves. it would prohibit the distribution, maintenance or updating of tiktok or another designated app controlled by a foreign adversary within 180 days of the bill's enactment, unless there's a qualified divestiture very complicated . i'm joined now by complicated. i'm joined now by former republican congressman and political pundit john leboutillier. thank you for making time for us this evening, john, thanks for having me. it's a very important topic. and one of the few things in america that has united both republicans and democrats. >> and why is that ? i know i'm >> and why is that? i know i'm aware of the fact that the bill has been around washington for a number of years. why the sudden bipartisan support at this moment in history? >> well, first of all, it's only in the house of representatives. the us senate hasn't taken this up yet. so we don't know that

this will ever become law. but it did pass the house two weeks ago, overwhelmingly in both , as ago, overwhelmingly in both, as i said, both parties supported it. and why ? first of all, the it. and why? first of all, the evidence is clear that the chinese communist party gathers information from the users of tiktok. and this is very alarming in the united states. i'm sure it's alarming in great britain to the idea that , an britain to the idea that, an adversary of the united states , adversary of the united states, has a personal information of a third of the country's users , third of the country's users, and especially young ones, and they can use that to do. i manipulated fake news as we head into an election year. it's extremely worthy. >> can i just jump in at that point, john, isn't it true , point, john, isn't it true, though, that the same data is readily harvested by all social media platforms? facebook google

x and so on, and it's all freely available for sale on the open market. in what way is tiktok able to harvest directly anything that isn't freely available to the in the marketplace anyway? >> well, i don't know that it that the communist chinese aren't getting the same information from facebook. say meta. maybe they are, but they're definitely getting it because they own bytedance, which owns a tiktok. and so when you sign up and fill out the stuff, it all goes to beijing , stuff, it all goes to beijing, for god's sakes. we know that. and it allows beijing to come back through tiktok and manipulate . wait, a third of manipulate. wait, a third of america is watching stuff that could be produced in beijing using ai and could be used to manipulate the elections. this november . john, i know that the

november. john, i know that the name red china, i mean , the name red china, i mean, the pubuc name red china, i mean, the public doesn't hate facebook and instagram the way they hate the chinese communist party . chinese communist party. >> i'll, i'll i'll take that at face value, john. but i have to say that us intelligence has produced no evidence that tiktok has ever coordinated with beijing. and when asked recently for evidence of tiktok's actual threat, an fbi spokesman said we have nothing to add . despite have nothing to add. despite despite all the speculation about chinese propaganda, the fbiand about chinese propaganda, the fbi and others have not been able to point to anything specific and say there it is . specific and say there it is. >> well, something clearly has motivated almost 400 members of the house out of 432. so i have a few vacancies at the moment to vote for this bill. so it's a very popular bill, but it's not the law yet. so we'll see. and maybe senators will ask these

questions that you've raised. but i don't think you're going to find any doubters that when in doubt , to find any doubters that when in doubt, assume the to find any doubters that when in doubt , assume the worst out in doubt, assume the worst out of beijing . of beijing. >> can you? what about the fact that that, it is generation z, it's gen z that use it. it's young minds that are that are interested in tiktok and since october 7th, those 100, many of those youngsters are sharing information about how unhappy they are with what's happening in gaza. and what's happening to palestinians, calling for an end to the to the war. there it's not the timing that since october the 7th, tiktok has provided a platform for young americans, young jewish americans, young jewish americans, among them , to make americans, among them, to make plain that they're not happy with what the state of israel is doing in gaza. you don't think that timing is more than coincidental ? coincidental? >> well, except that of the 380,

some odd numbers of members of the house that voted for this bill, there were people who were pro—israel and pro—palestinian, who voted for it, i don't think i don't think that's the issue that motivated . i think it's red that motivated. i think it's red china and the chinese communist party . that is the china and the chinese communist party. that is the one thing that can unify an otherwise divided political scene in the house of representatives. >> bear with me, john. while i also invite my guest in the studio, frank furedi , to be studio, frank furedi, to be involved. what do you make of what john is saying? you know, very strong on how on on how much opposition there is to red china in the united states of america. >> i think there is. and i think that, red china , serves as a that, red china, serves as a conduh that, red china, serves as a conduit for uniting disparate forces for a very simple reason that there seems to be a real concern about chinese

competition, about the ascendancy of china , a number of ascendancy of china, a number of areas, the fact that china alone is the only economic entity that can seriously compete with the united states. and i think that kind of concern has consolidated over the last few years , and over the last few years, and it's probably the main reason it's probably the main reason it's rather than intelligence or or manipulation or brainwashing, i think it's chinese economic power, that's at the roots of this discussion. and i think that's why we have a situation where both sides of the house have come together on this one single issue , john leboutillier, single issue, john leboutillier, thank you very much for being with us this evening. the clock has beaten us. tick tock, tiktok. as they say . but thank tiktok. as they say. but thank you very much for your insights this evening. can pick up this evening. we can pick up this evening. we can pick up this conversation another time, this evening. we can pick up tihope.1versation another time, this evening. we can pick up tihope. thankion another time, this evening. we can pick up tihope. thank younnother time, this evening. we can pick up tihope. thank you for her time, this evening. we can pick up tihope. thank you for now. me, i hope. thank you for now. you've been watching the neil oliver on gb news. stay oliver show on gb news. stay tuned free speech nation. tuned for free speech nation. that's see you next that's next. i'll see you next

week. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar . sponsors of weather on . solar. sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello. here's your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. we saw a quiet day weather wise across the uk on sunday, but things are turning more unsettled once again during the week ahead with wind rain at times. a ridge wind and rain at times. a ridge of high pressure brought a quieter day sunday, but low quieter day on sunday, but low pressure already gathering pressure is already gathering towards west that will towards the west and that will move the week ahead to move in during the week ahead to return conditions. return to unsettled conditions. wind arriving wind and rain already arriving across and southwest of across the west and southwest of the uk for the overnight period, some of rain turning quite some of that rain turning quite heavy towards heavy in places, whereas towards the it's clearer. the north and east it's clearer. just 1 or 2 showers lingering and certainly a touch of frost possible north east possible in the north and east by of monday by the early hours of monday morning. out towards morning. whereas out towards the west southwest those west and southwest those temperatures start to temperatures will start to climb. monday itself,

temperatures will start to climia monday itself, temperatures will start to climia wet)nday itself, temperatures will start to climia wet days itself, temperatures will start to climia wet days inself, temperatures will start to climia wet days in store, with a very wet days in store, cost some western and southwestern areas, particularly across of across the south—west of england. heavy england. some very heavy rain developing at times, developing here at times, whereas towards and whereas towards the north and east bright picture, at east it's a bright picture, at least time, wind least for a time, before wind and rain to move in from and rain starts to move in from the south—west, turning snow the south—west, turning to snow as reaches colder air across as it reaches colder air across parts scotland, especially on parts of scotland, especially on the hills north of the central belt, and particularly on the hills north of the central betheind particularly on the hills north of the central betheind ptemperatures on the hills north of the central betheind ptemperatures peaking in the day, temperatures peaking at towards the at 12 celsius down towards the south—east colder though south—east a bit colder though towards north northeast. towards the north and northeast. as tuesday , what a very as for tuesday, what a very unsettled day is expected across scotland. rain and snow at times snow on the hills, but snow chiefly on the hills, but some of rain and some of some of that rain and some of that snow could be quite heavy elsewhere. a pretty elsewhere. it's a pretty unsettled showers unsettled day. rain or showers never far and those never too far away, and those temperatures struggling, reaching at reaching an average figures at best pretty best and staying pretty unsettled week ahead with unsettled in the week ahead with showers longer spells of showers or longer spells of rain. again, those rain. and again, those temperatures struggling the temperatures struggling into the low figures that warm low double figures that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers

gb news. >> a very good evening to you. i'm sam francis in the gb newsroom. 7:00. and a quick recap of the headlines this houn recap of the headlines this hour. russia's black sea fleet is now functionally inactive, according to the uk's defence secretary. that's after a massive ukrainian missile strike on sevastopol . for those on sevastopol. for those watching on television, this was the moment that two russian navy vessels were targeted and then struck . security sources have struck. security sources have told gb news that uk supplied storm shadow missiles were used in that strike, and we understand a major military communication centre was also damaged . it marks the largest damaged. it marks the largest attack on the russian controlled port in the war so far, as tensions in the region continue to escalate. meanwhile,