cars and in baltimore, sending cars and people plunging into the river below. we'll bring you updates and ask, how did such a tragedy happen? >> and two israeli survivors of the october 7th hamas attack have accused uk border staff of anti—semitism after they were allegedly detained for hours and subjected to aggressive questioning . a home office questioning. a home office investigation is now underway and war of russia's air. >> the russian soldier who severed the ear of one of the alleged isis terrorists, is auctioning the knife he used to cut it. bids are reportedly flooding in. it comes as putin is accused of brutal treatment of the suspects. >> now, what questions do you have regarding the baltimore bridge collapse? it is astonishing that in the richest

country in the world, something so dramatic could have happened from one simple ship crash. we're going to be speaking to a range of experts over the course of this program, but we want your questions. do get in touch. gb views. at gb news.com. yes. >> what could have happened? are you concerned about the construction of the bridge itself? perhaps who was driving the ship and how they're going to go about their search and rescue? of course, this happened very early this morning about 1:30 am. over in baltimore. the city will be waking up to this destruction and wondering how on earth this could happen. let us know your thoughts. we'll speak to a range of experts , from your to a range of experts, from your bndge to a range of experts, from your bridge construction bridge experts, construction to search . and of search and rescue. and of course, we'll be covering lots of other news domestically here as well. gb views at gb news. com should we get to your headlines? >> emily, thank you and good afternoon. the top stories a

state of emergency has been declared in the us city of baltimore after a bridge collapsed early this morning. if you're watching us on tv, you can see this video showing the moment a cargo ship crashed into the bridge. it happened at around 130 in the morning. multiple people were on the four lane bridge at the time. two people were recovered from the water. one is now in a serious condition . we can take you live condition. we can take you live now to baltimore, where you can see the devastation in the aftermath of that collapse. rescue efforts are continuing . rescue efforts are continuing. officials say more than seven people may still be unaccounted for. authorities say the cause is not believed to be terror related. the mayor of baltimore, brandon scott , says now is the brandon scott, says now is the time to focus on all of those who've been impacted . who've been impacted. >> this is a unthinkable, a tragedy . we have to first and tragedy. we have to first and foremost pray for all of those who are impacted, those families are pray for our first responders and thank them , all responders and thank them, all of them working together, city,

state, local, to make sure that we are working through this tragedy, this is an ongoing, active , research, that we're active, research, that we're having right now . we're going to having right now. we're going to continue, as you heard from chief wallace to throughout as long as we have to be doing that, we will do it. >> but we have to be thinking about the families and people impacted. >> the health watchdog has flagged what it calls ongoing concerns at the nhs trust, which treated a man who killed three people in nottingham last year. barnaby webber and grace o'malley kumar, who were both 19, and school caretaker , 65 19, and school caretaker, 65 year old ian coates, were stabbed in june in it's review, the care quality commission says steps must be taken to improve processes and protect the public from the risk of harm. it comes after the health secretary, victoria atkins, called for a rapid review of the trust in january . rapid review of the trust in january. three children who rapid review of the trust in january . three children who were january. three children who were killed in bristol last month

died from stab wounds, according to an inquest. the bodies of faris bash, aged seven, jerry bash, who was three, and nine month old mohammed bash, were found in the sea mills area . a found in the sea mills area. a 42 year old woman was arrested on suspicion of murder earlier this month. she was taken to hospital for injuries that were non—life threatening and was detained under the mental health act , the high court has ruled. act, the high court has ruled. wikileaks founder julian assange can appeal against his extradition to the us on charges of espionage. us authorities have been asked to provide assurances on whether mr assange can rely on the first amendment, which provides a right to free speech, or whether he might face the death penalty . a further the death penalty. a further heanng the death penalty. a further hearing will now be held in may. it's over an alleged conspiracy to obtain and disclose national defence information following the publication of leaked documents relating to the afghanistan and iraq wars . afghanistan and iraq wars. britain and the united states

are accusing china of carrying out a global campaign of malicious cyber attacks. it's an unprecedented move, with britain publicly blaming china for targeting the electoral commission watchdog and the email accounts of mps and peers. british intelligence services believe that chinese spies are likely to use hacked information to target critics of xi jinping's government. shadow paymaster general jonathan ashworth says a full review of china's relationship with britain is needed. >> we will, in the labour party , >> we will, in the labour party, always prioritise national security and prioritise our democratic integrity. we do believe that we need to continue to keep all of these matters under review. in fact, if we were elected, we would do a full audh were elected, we would do a full audit of all uk china relations to fully understand our exposure to fully understand our exposure to china and indeed give certainty to those businesses who trade with china . but we do who trade with china. but we do support what the government announced yesterday. but we would continue to work on a

cross—party basis with them to ensure that the right action is taken in response to any threat to our national security . to our national security. >> the un security council has passed a resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in gaza . an immediate ceasefire in gaza. it was passed after the us abstained from voting , a shift abstained from voting, a shift in its position on the conflict, which prompted israel to cancel a meeting in washington. it comes as the uk airdrops food suppues comes as the uk airdrops food supplies into gaza for the first time. part of international efforts to provide life saving assistance to civilians and the king and queen are to attend the easter matins service at saint george's chapel , easter matins service at saint george's chapel, buckingham palace says the royal couple will spend the easter celebration at windsor castle this sunday, shortly after the easter bunny completes the delivery of chocolate eggs . delivery of chocolate eggs. that, of course, being the king's most significant appearance his cancer appearance since his cancer diagnosis . for the latest diagnosis. for the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr

code on your screen or go to gb news common alerts. now back to tom and . tom and. emily. >> it's 1207. you're watching listening to good afternoon britain . now, first to the britain. now, first to the developing situation in baltimore , where a bridge baltimore, where a bridge collapsed very early this morning after it was hit by a cargo ship. >> yes. the maryland governor has declared a state of emergency, and authorities say they're facing a race against time to rescue at least seven people in the water amid freezing temperatures in baltimore. well, our homeland security editor, mark white, joins us now. >> mark, can you tell us the very latest what have we heard from the emergency services over the scale of this incident? and how many lives are we looking at, potentially? >> well , they're saying it's >> well, they're saying it's still very much an active search and rescue operation at the moment. now, they believe that there were seven people, at

least on the bridge, involved in construction efforts that were concrete repair work that was taking place on the bridge overnight. that's not unusual. you see, on these huge bridges, overnight, when traffic is much lower than it is during the day, then you will get construction teams involved in the day to day maintenance of a bridge. so there were at least seven construction workers who the authorities believe were thrown into the water. they may revise that upwards if they get more information about anyone else on the bridge. what that doesn't include , though, is the number include, though, is the number of vehicles that were on the bndge. of vehicles that were on the bridge . you can see for those bridge. you can see for those who are listening on radio, we're looking at images at the moment of the time of the impact of this container ship on the bndge of this container ship on the bridge , and it suffered a total bridge, and it suffered a total structural collapse , with the structural collapse, with the vast majority of this truss bridge, disintegrating and

ending up in the patapsco river. and the vehicles that were on that bridge will of course, ended up in the river as well. we're told that marine rescue units from the police , from the units from the police, from the fire service are in the river and from the coastguard as well. and sonar has detected vehicles on the riverbed. but at this stage, they have not given an indication of how many vehicles may be down there. thankfully, at 130 in the morning when this incident took place , there's incident took place, there's going to be far fewer vehicles on the bridge than there would be during the day, but it's still a major highway heading up towards philadelphia and new york and new jersey that handles 11 million vehicles every year. >> and mark, this is still very much an active search and rescue mission, do we know any detail about who has been recovered, and who , frankly, might not have

been? >> well, only two people so far have been recovered from the water, one person who, remarkably, didn't suffer much in the way of injuries and declined medical attention . declined medical attention. another person who was less fortunate, impacted the water and suffered serious injuries. they've been transferred to hospital. the search and rescue is underway to find other potential survivors or indeed, sadly, those who may have succumbed to the water to their injuries. and that will mean not just searching that immediate area because , the patapsco river area because, the patapsco river is a fast flowing river, but it's also tidal. so you're going to be looking down river and potentially up river, depending on what the tidal conditions were, and not just the river, but the river banks will be searched as well , looking for searched as well, looking for anyone that may have been taken and drifted by the tide and currents, towards the, the river

banks. and then, of course, there are those that may still be trapped in their vehicles. i think there's little of any hope that anyone still inside a vehicle down on the riverbed would have survived this amount of time in the water mark. >> is this so far being treated as a freak accident? i know that we've been told that this is not terrorists terror related, so an accident. so far? >> well, they haven't completely ruled out terrorism , but what ruled out terrorism, but what they are saying is that they found nothing to suggest that this was a deliberate act, found nothing to suggest that this was a deliberate act , that this was a deliberate act, that it was indeed an act of terrorism. instead they're looking at the potential for there being some kind of accident or fault with the container ship itself. now, to that end , there is video that that end, there is video that emerged that has been speeded up, that shows this container ship at night, heading towards this central column on the

bridge. and in that footage, we can see that on two occasions the ship appears to go black. it appears to lose power. and abc news in the states is reporting that they've seen, from sources, suggestions that the crew had contacted the coastguard because of power failure. now, for those listening on radio, we're looking at that footage at the moment of this container ship heading towards the bridge , and heading towards the bridge, and at one point you see the lights of the container ship going out there. now, this is important because if you lose light, you're losing power. if you lose power , you lose propulsion. power, you lose propulsion. propulsion is what is the vital component in a ship being able to steer without that ability to steer , then it's the mercy of steer, then it's the mercy of the prevailing tide and currents

on the river. and clearly in this case, that drove the ship towards that central concrete column. and this is a ship of about 100,000 tons, also doing a bit of a speed, heading towards that central column. it clearly had a devastating impact on the column. but what will also be examined by structural engineers is why that impact caused this complete structural disintegration, this collapse of the bridge with these devastating consequences is just stunning footage. >> mark and i honestly have seen this, ripple so many times now and every single time still shocking that that this sort of seemingly slow moving disaster, this sort of disaster film style event could actually take place. mark white thank you so much for joining us. we'll be back with you, of course, later in the

program. >> absolutely. and it will be very interesting to find out what was happening inside the ship in terms of the steering , ship in terms of the steering, what happened? how could it have collided like this ? was it an collided like this? was it an accident? did something catastrophic go wrong on board? >> now, as mark says, this was a 100,000 ton vessel. and i think to some extent, the very zoomed out images that we've seen of it bumping in doesn't quite emphasise how heavy this boat was. perhaps that had something to do with the fact that what was a substantial bridge, a bndge was a substantial bridge, a bridge that had been there for a long time, a landmark of baltimore , could just collapse baltimore, could just collapse like that. i like a lot of questions. >> is there any bridge that could have, stood that kind of pressure on it, or was this bridge, was this bridge a fit and healthy bridge? as far as we know? well, it might be useful to talk to a professor of construction engineering and materials. >> indeed, the professor of construction engineering and

materials at the university of loughborough, doctor chris goodyean loughborough, doctor chris goodyear. chris, thank you so much for joining goodyear. chris, thank you so much forjoining us today. much for joining us today. i think a lot of people will be watching this footage over and over again thinking, my goodness, are the structures that we rely on in our day to day lives really this fragile ? day lives really this fragile? >> yes. >> yes. >> i've been watching myself several times , also, i built a several times, also, i built a bndge several times, also, i built a bridge similar to this at the start of my career here in the uk . uk. >> and really , i think the >> and really, i think the question is, would any bridge respond to a crash against one of its support struts like this question. >> so i think you made the point. it's about 100,000 tonnes the container ship. and you can see by the sheer size. so just the laws of physics , newton's, the laws of physics, newton's, law of motion force equals mass times acceleration. is this a sheer mass ? you don't have to go sheer mass? you don't have to go very fast to create a tremendous

force. and my estimation would be the almost any man made structure, with that amount of force applied, would have an impact. if you were building it on a small rock island, you'd have a chance resisting that force. but if it's a man made caisson or pontoon, you see, what is the bit in the water? i think most, most bridges would not withstand that type of force appued not withstand that type of force applied to it. >> and you say you, helped design a bridge like this one. what is special about this particular bridge? how is it built ? how is particular bridge? how is it built? how is it particular bridge? how is it built ? how is it constructed? built? how is it constructed? what does it rely on to keep it, in shape? >> it's a it's a fairly common design. you've got it's quite a long bridge . so the bits at the long bridge. so the bits at the end are actually very small spans. so the bits that didn't collapse a very small spans. and if it hit one of those smaller spansit if it hit one of those smaller spans it would still collapse , spans it would still collapse, but only a small portion. the reason it was a big collapse is hit one of the two main supports. and the reason you

have two big supports is to create one very large span in the centre, which is where all the centre, which is where all the shipping is meant go, the shipping is meant to go, through this was through which this boat was trying do , because of that, trying to do, because of that, it it , it trying to do, because of that, it it, it caused the trying to do, because of that, it it , it caused the whole of it it, it caused the whole of the steel truss to, to collapse in one go. but i was surprised how fragile it did appear as a progressive collapse. and it brought the whole of that centre section down, not just a small proportion. >> and the speed of how it collapsed. judging from the footage we've seen, it was very quick . quick. >> it was very quick, which makes these bridges very structurally efficient, as in there's less material there. it's what we call a balanced cantilever. it's kind of balanced on one end. so the weight on one end helps carry the load on the other end. but if you take out one support, there then it literally tips over like that. so not just one side of the bridge collapse. it caused the other side of the bndge caused the other side of the bridge to collapse a bit like a seesaw. that's the whole seesaw. and that's why the whole section and we're just

section came down and we're just looking at live pictures here, andifs looking at live pictures here, and it's exactly as you described . described. >> the smaller struts of the of the bridge going to land. they're still intact, but it's those two larger struts that were very wide apart to allow that wide berth for big ships to come through. they are what have suffered this catastrophic event. and i suppose the question becomes there are lots of bridges that have these wide central sections to allow for shipping in almost every major port city of the world. these type of bridges exist . could the type of bridges exist. could the similar situation that we've seen in baltimore happen in many other parts of the world? >> you drive a ship that heavy , >> you drive a ship that heavy, into one of the key supports that , then? yes. and i think the that, then? yes. and i think the difference is this bridge was built in the 70s where when ships were generally smaller, with globalisation, we have much more of these kind of mega size ships, container ships carrying goods all around the world. and

we're going to be increasingly having bigger ships that are heavier. and also our bridges are getting older and older. some of them are poorly maintained . but i don't think maintained. but i don't think this this was not a poor maintenance problem . it was the maintenance problem. it was the sheer force, applied to that single crucial span. if it appued single crucial span. if it applied to one of the smaller ones, you'd still get a collapse, but more localised sized collapse, because they're the smaller spans are structurally independent, whereas those two main pillars , whereas those two main pillars, are interconnected structurally. so taking out one has caused the other side of the bridge to collapse there. so you're hitting it just in the very worst point . worst point. >> now, chris, i know you say that the, the state of the of repair of this bridge was not was not the issue here, but just from your experience and knowledge, what is the state of our bridges in this country ? are our bridges in this country? are they state disrepair or they in a state of disrepair or how they looked at and how often are they looked at and checked and repaired if necessary ? necessary? >> question. we in this country, we regularly , inspect all our

we regularly, inspect all our bndges we regularly, inspect all our bridges and tunnels and critical national infrastructure on a regular basis. but we have a very ageing infrastructure here. we have the, victorian infrastructure . we were the infrastructure. we were the first in the world to build a lot of this. so we have some of the oldest, but at the same time, some of it was very overdesigned and, and is extremely robust and will be here for a very long time. but if you drove a ship of 100,000 tons into most of it, it would collapse. most of it . collapse. most of it. >> i suppose it is that that that fundamental law of motion that fundamental law of motion that you so neatly introduced at the beginning of this segment, doctor chris goodyear, thank you so for joining doctor chris goodyear, thank you so forjoining us and so much forjoining us and talking the structural talking through the structural engineering, construction and materials particular materials of this particular event. really, really very interesting indeed. >> and the fact he helped design a very similar bridge, very useful his knowledge on useful to get his knowledge on this back school sequels, this back to school for sequels, mass acceleration . mass times acceleration. >> important to remember. >> important to remember. >> important to remember. >> i remember that, yes. very good. well, coming up, two israeli survivors of the october

7 mass terror attack have accused uk border force staff of anti—semitism after they were allegedly detained for hours and subjected to aggressive questioning . is there more to questioning. is there more to this than meets the .

eye? >> good afternoon. britain. it's 12:24. and manchester airport has become embroiled in controversy after two survivors of hamas's attacks on the 7th of october were seemingly singled out by the uk border force. >> yes, the jewish representative council for greater manchester says the two israeli nationals faced aggressive questioning. they were visiting the country to share their experiences of being at the nova music festival , at the nova music festival, where more than 360 partygoers were shot .

were shot. >> an investigation has now been opened by the home office , but opened by the home office, but let's have a little look at a short clip of what was said to these two men. >> chaps, we need to conduct . >> chaps, we need to conduct. >> chaps, we need to conduct. >> okay. >> okay. >> nobody's saying that. nobody has said that once. so not the attitude of we've made the decision and you coming in. so just let us do the checks we need to do and keep quiet. look at me. okay. you clear with that 7 at me. okay. you clear with that ? okay, good. we're the bosses, not you. all right, right . not you. all right, all right. >> is this normal behaviour from the uk border force? is it what you'd expect, or is something else going on here? does it show a level of discrimination in. >> yeah, it seems to have divided opinion online. many people saying this is discrimination. other people saying the border force are usually quite curt, quite rude, but there is a big question, i suppose. and that is what is more than the video. what is said in a letter that has been written and has been shared

widely. but let's get more on this with the former chief immigration officer at uk border force , kevin saunders, kevin , force, kevin saunders, kevin, quite often border force don't have the politest reputation in the world, could it have been that this incident was simply people with short tempers ? people with short tempers? >> good afternoon. well, i think it's quite important that that we know what the background to this is. and we don't know what the two people arriving at the desk actually said to the officer. we've only got a little tiny bit of what the officer said to them. >> so we don't know if, if, if they what they said. but let me tell you what actually happens. these two gentlemen, are seeking leave to enter the united kingdom because they're on israeli passports . so they're israeli passports. so they're controllable. so they will arrive at the desk and the

immigration officer will say to them, hello, how are you? nice to see you. why have you come to the united kingdom ? what are you the united kingdom? what are you going to be doing here? and then they will have told him the story about how they were , story about how they were, victims of the hamas attack and everything else. now, that's somewhat of an unusual story to hean somewhat of an unusual story to hear, at an airport. so the immigration officer will have said, okay, well, that's fine. we need to check your story out. who's invited you? where are you going ? who's meeting you? going? who's meeting you? whatever. would you mind just sitting down for a few minutes while we check your story out? he would then have gone and reported this to his boss, and his boss would have confirmed that these two people were being held up until we could verify their story, because it's a very unusual story. it

their story, because it's a very unusual story . it really their story, because it's a very unusual story. it really is. so that's why. that's why they were held up while the immigration service or sorry, while border force actually checked the story. and then when they checked the story , they, as you checked the story, they, as you can see in that , that clip, the can see in that, that clip, the officer actually says it's okay, we're going to allow you in. so they had been granted leave to enter and you can see that the other officer is actually stamping the passports to say they've been allowed in. what we can't see is, is what these people were saying to the border force officers before all that happened. now, on the other hand , the border force officer shouldn't have said what he did say to them. that is totally unprofessional. he shouldn't have said we're the bosses, we're in charge. you'll do as we tell you. that's that's just totally and absolutely unacceptable . but we don't know unacceptable. but we don't know what was said to him in the

first place. >> so it's quite it's quite easy to imagine that there might have been some abrasive back and forth before we reached this point. but perhaps the most concerning thing about this whole story isn't what's in this video . in a letter written by video. in a letter written by the jewish representative council , the jewish representative council, complaining about this incident is something that, to be fair, we don't have direct evidence of. this is only what one side of the dispute has said. but they said they were detained for two hours and when finally released , the border finally released, the border police officer said they had to make sure that you are not going to do what you are doing in gaza over here now , if that was said, over here now, if that was said, that would very clearly be beyond inappropriate , beyond beyond inappropriate, beyond stereotyping and likely anti—semitic . nick, stereotyping and likely anti—semitic. nick, is it likely that there would have been a record thing in a in an interrogation room? will there ever be any evidence that something like that was said or

not? >> well, we don't know where it was said . so. so if that if it was said. so. so if that if it was said. so. so if that if it was actually said and there is evidence that that was actually said, i think this border force officer will be looking for another job officer will be looking for anotherjob because officer will be looking for another job because that officer will be looking for anotherjob because that is another job because that is totally and absolutely unacceptable, but was was it said it's the question did anybody witness it? well, we don't we don't know, there was most people have had pretty curt conversations with border force in a number of countries, not just the united kingdom . just the united kingdom. >> i mean, we've all been on houday >> i mean, we've all been on holiday and had, you know, less than enjoyable experiences. sometimes officers , less than sometimes officers, less than cheery officers. but it does appear as though this perhaps did cross the line. the home office james cleverly has been very clear that this will be investigated . investigated. >> yes. you're right. i mean, have you ever tried flying into jfk because the immigration

staff there are are not exactly the world's , most polite the world's, most polite officers or i, for example. but our officers tend to be genuinely nice people, and they are actually trained to engage with people because we want to hear passengers talk to us. the whole reason that we talk to them and try and engage them. because if you're presenting a british passport but you can't speak a word of english, then we want to know, hang on, how come you've got a british passport but you can't speak english? so we will engage with you and try and talk to you. even if it's only. how? how are you? have you had a nice flight? and after you've been stuck at somewhere for eight hours, it's the last thing you want but we thing you want to hear. but we will try and talk to you, to ascertain who you are. we have to establish nationality and identity . and establishing

identity. and establishing nationality is the best way of, of talking to people to find out where they are and if they've come back from their two weeks in, in on the costas. that's absolutely super. we won't hold you up or get rid of you as quickly as we possibly can. we don't want to hold you up on the other hand, if you are a little bit dodgy, we do want to find out who you are and what we are. and i have plenty of those. when i was at work and we did hold people up and i've been called everything under sun for everything under the sun for holding people up, but i've never found be wrong . never been found to be wrong. >> yes, i wonder if a lot of people, a lot of the british pubuc people, a lot of the british public would prefer the uk border force was safe rather than sorry , although we'll have than sorry, although we'll have to await to hear the evidence from this investigation because it does look, pretty concerning to say the least. but thank you very much. kevin saunders . very much. kevin saunders. really great to get your perspective on all of this. in your , yes, it's your experience, yes, it's interesting because i can

totally see both sides here. >> if what was written in that letter was said. this is a very , letter was said. this is a very, very serious situation. if it's just that video that we've seen where they were just a bit look, hold on, don't speak. we're just going to get you through. don't please be respectful. if it was just that. did you like my impression? >> i mean, i hate whole >> i mean, i hate the whole airport and airport experience anyway, and i hate asked questions hate being asked questions by people that's people i don't know, but that's just how it works, isn't it? >> just how works. well, >> it's just how it works. well, lots and of lots more to learn there. and of course, home course, that home office investigation being investigation is being undertaken coming up, undertaken now. but coming up, british must ensure british universities must ensure relationships with foreign countries do not undermine free speech. that's according to the government's free speech tsar. we'll have much more on that after your latest headlines. this is good afternoon, britain . this is good afternoon, britain. >> tom. thank you. the top stories this hour. a major search is underway in the us city of baltimore. after a bndge city of baltimore. after a bridge collapsed early this

morning . if you're watching on morning. if you're watching on tv, you can see this video showing the moment a cargo ship crashed into the francis scott key bridge . it happened at key bridge. it happened at around 130 local time. multiple people were on the one and a half mile long bridge at the time . two people were recovered time. two people were recovered from the water. one is now in a serious condition. we can take you live now to baltimore, where you live now to baltimore, where you can see the aftermath of that collapse in this morning's tragedy. the authorities say the cause is not believed to be terror related. rescue efforts are continuing . officials say are continuing. officials say more than seven people may still be unaccounted for. the health watchdog has flagged what it calls ongoing concerns at the nhs trust, which treated the man who killed barnaby webber. grace o'malley kumar and ian coates. valdo calocane received treatment at the nottinghamshire trust in its review. the care quality commission says steps must be taken to improve processes and protect the public from the risk of harm. it comes

after the health secretary, victoria atkins, called for a rapid review of the trust in january . rapid review of the trust in january. britain and the united states are accusing china of carrying out a global campaign of malicious cyber attacks . it's of malicious cyber attacks. it's an unprecedented move, with britain publicly blaming china for targeting the electoral commission watchdog and the email accounts of mps and peers. shadow paymaster general jonathan ashworth says a full review of china's relationship with britain is needed . and the with britain is needed. and the king and queen are to attend an easter service at saint george's chapel easter service at saint george's chapel, buckingham palace says the royal couple will spend the easter celebration at windsor castle this sunday, shortly after the easter bunny completes his delivery of chocolate eggs. it's, of course, the king's most significant appearance since he was with cancer . for was diagnosed with cancer. for the latest stories , sign up to the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to

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i >> -- >> good afternoon. britain. it's 12:39. and british universities must ensure relationships with foreign countries don't undermine free speech. that's what the government's free speech tsar has advised. >> yes . so universities could be >> yes. so universities could be told to terminate or rewrite their arrangements with a foreign country. such as admitting international students on scholarships, stopping that if the relationship with a certain country prevents legitimate debate. so we want to find out what exactly a relationship between a university and a foreign state, how might that impact free speech, joining us now is tom

harris, a representative from the free speech union . varne. the free speech union. varne. tom, when we're talking about the relationship between universities , cities and foreign universities, cities and foreign countries, are we talking about specific relationships with specific relationships with specific foreign countries? because i'm trying to think about how this could impact free speech on campus . speech on campus. >> well, it's draft guidance thatis >> well, it's draft guidance that is not actually specific as we would expect. it covers all countries . but i think by and countries. but i think by and large, it's clear that we're probably mainly talking here about china. the intelligence and security committee has actually warned the confucius institutes are in universities are being used to manipulate teaching and research about china. so there has been a lot of concern from that. and there's a huge dependence now, from universities financially on foreign students who pay a lot more . so although it's not more. so although it's not explicitly china, it's clear that a lot of the concerns have ansen that a lot of the concerns have

arisen from that. and we do have arisen from that. and we do have a case that we at the free speech union, we've helped someone called, professor michelle skipworth , who was michelle skipworth, who was actually suspended from her teaching her own course, because there were concerns that it was about, alleged , it was a data. about, alleged, it was a data. it was a data analysis course, actually, and a chinese student was concerned by the provocative question that, why are there so many slaves in china ? and as many slaves in china? and as a result, she was investigated and ucl , stopped her teaching her ucl, stopped her teaching her own course. so there is a lot of concern, particularly from china. >> and china is a very , very >> and china is a very, very interesting country when it comes to this because there are what's known as students and scholars associations in, in uk universities, all uk universities, all uk universities, i believe . and universities, i believe. and they're they're basically an arm of the chinese embassy. and that's sort of how chinese students come to study in the uk. it's through the chinese embassy. they're very interlinked. and sometimes it means that there can be embassy,

organised protests , thoughts or organised protests, thoughts or complaints. and these can have a real, real effect on, on free speech in universities here. >> that's absolutely right. there's sort of two networks of confucius institutes. and as you say, the csas, there's at least 100 of those, all based out of the embassy, and they link back and report back to beijing. and it's not great for chinese students, frankly . they want to students, frankly. they want to come over to britain and have a liberal education. they want to to, enjoy one of our greatest sectors, which is higher education, but because their own students, chinese students are spying on other chinese students, they're denied that . students, they're denied that. so they're paying more, potentially being denied a great education because of it. so it's not even great for chinese students. >> and, tom, why should the average brit care about free speech on campus and care about the influence of foreign states

on our education system? if you're not a university goer , if you're not a university goer, if you're not a university goer, if you don't have children at university or grandchildren at university or grandchildren at university , you have absolutely university, you have absolutely no links to our academic institutions. should we institutions. why should we care, i think we should all care about a sector that , is in all about a sector that, is in all likelihood is going to lead to tomorrow's leaders in business, tomorrow's leaders in business, tomorrow's leaders in politics are higher education sector is a renowned worldwide renowned gem, in our cultural landscape. and i think if that is under attack and there's a potential conflict of interest there between where the cash comes from and the quality of the research and the quality of the research and the quality of the academic freedom, that's absolutely a freedom issue and a freedom of speech concern. so i think we are all impacted by that. and actually in our case, work about 25, nearly 25% of our cases at the free speech union relate in some way to educational institutions

which , as i say, are at the which, as i say, are at the heart of what we will be and the direction of our of our travel as a country. >> lots of censorship going on. thank you very much. tom harris, a free a representative from the free speech union. thank you very much. you imagine if, much. can you imagine if, professor was tutors at a university, were looking through their syllabus and they thought, oh gosh, we can't do that? well, you know, you can't do that. we can't we can't cover that topic because might the because it might upset the chinese state. >> you know what? i've experienced it. >> on. >> go on. »- >> go on. >> i >> go on. - >>-i was >> go on. >> i was president of the >> when i was president of the durham union, oh yes. yes. in 2016, 17, i was hosting a debate. which was the question this house sees china as a threat to the west. now, it wasn't saying that. that's what we believed . that was the that we believed. that was the that was a question up for debate on on one side, we had the former foreign secretary, malcolm foreign secretary, sir malcolm rifkind, side, we rifkind, on the other side, we ianed rifkind, on the other side, we invited by the name of invited a woman by the name of anastasia lynn. now she's someone who's been expelled from china her human rights china for her human rights activism. she's a former miss

world who's a great world contestant who's a great speaken world contestant who's a great speaker. but we started getting loads of complaints into the into my inbox from chinese students at durham university, and they started to say , why are and they started to say, why are you hosting this debate? why have you invited anastasia lynn? she is banned from china. you can't host this woman. you can't host her. you can't have her. well, they copy and paste jobs. they were all very, very similar. and we were sort of thinking, well, this is a union thatis thinking, well, this is a union that is hundreds of years old, founded on the principles of free speech. we're not going to listen because students are listen because some students are upset. got to the upset. and then it got to the point where i was pulled out of a thati point where i was pulled out of a that i was in, told a tutorial that i was in, told to go to the union office and take a phone call from the chinese embassy. and so i was taking a phone call here from diplomats in the chinese embassy saying, you have to cancel this debate, you have to cancel this debate. crazy. at one point, they even threatened the uk's trade terms with china. i think they thought that i was perhaps a representative of the british state. i wasn't i was a student,

but i ignored them and i said, no, we're going to we're going to host this debate. we hosted the debate. it was a massive success. heard strong success. we heard strong arguments either side, and arguments on either side, and frankly , you know what? frankly, you know what? >> i, you know, it's a good thing that you were there to make sure that your university and upheld the values and its union upheld the values of britain and our liberal democracy. other universities democracy. if other universities are taking a weaker approach to this sort of thing allowing this sort of thing and allowing foreign students from wherever to an influence on to have such an influence on what debated in our chambers what is debated in our chambers at our universities, then that is ridiculous . good thing you is ridiculous. good thing you were there, tom. >> well, i like to think that other people would the other people would have done the same, but it is intimidating when you pulled out. >> know when you're >> you don't know when you're pulled a tutorial. pulled out of a tutorial. >> you the chinese >> and you said the chinese embassy the phone you. embassy is on the phone for you. i goodness i was i was i mean, goodness me, i was i was a little 18 year old tom little, 18 year old tom harwood by 18 year old tom harwood 19 by that a little that time, were you a little intimidated, grown up? >> intimidated? only >> little bit intimidated? only a a touch. anyway, a touch, only a touch. anyway, coming vladimir putin's coming up is vladimir putin's treatment alleged treatment of alleged isis terrorists, much? it comes terrorists, too much? it comes as a knife used to cut the ear

off. one of the suspects is put up for auction. apparently bids are flooding

in. it's 1250 in the afternoon. you're watching . good afternoon. you're watching. good afternoon. britain. now is vladimir putin's treatment of alleged isis terrorists a bit too much ? terrorists a bit too much? >> well, this comes as one of the suspects who was carried. who carried out or allegedly carried out the moscow concert attack, reportedly had his ear cut off before being forcibly fed it by a russian soldier. >> so essentially he was forced to eat his own ear. >> well, now the knife used in this gruesome bit of interrogation is going to be auctioned off. we're asking, is this a step too far? >> what? they're cutting off the ear or the auctioning off of the

knife that cut the ear? well, both . the above. both. joining both. the above. both. joining us now is former head of the national counterterrorism security office, chris phillips, is this what we'd expect from putin's russia ? putin's russia? >> well, i mean, they make no bones about the fact that they kill people. >> and, you know, it's, we they kill people abroad as well as on their own soil. >> so you can imagine what they would do to these, these people that are suspected at the moment of, terrorist attack . of, a terrorist attack. >> i suppose, chris, there will be people in russia who feel like this is absolutely what should happen. these are alleged monsters who killed over 100 people. i'm sure there were people. i'm sure there were people in the united states of america who felt, get the people behind 911 and absolutely mutilate them. i'm there mutilate them. i'm sure there were people after seven over seven felt like there is seven who felt like there is that of almost an eye for that sense of almost an eye for an eye level of revenge, but i suppose we don't do that in the west. there are good reasons west. and there are good reasons why we don't. >> yeah, well, first and foremost, of course you're not

guilty until, until you've been proved so in court, but but the way you treat prisoners, it says a lot about your society. and, i mean, i would probably say that, the way we treat our prisoners, as in their sentencing is very, very poor in this country. and we've become too soft, but , of we've become too soft, but, of course, you don't want to see this kind of thing going on, which, seems to be the norm in, in russia. and as you say, you know, many people when they hear of a paedophile whatever , of a paedophile or whatever, being in the, in the being beaten up in the, in the prison, they, they're quite happy about that. but, it's very difficult. for a, for a civilised society to, to stomach this kind of, treatment. >> the west have the west have been accused , though, of, been accused, though, of, mistreating terror suspects in the war of terror, of taking a very tough approach . accusations very tough approach. accusations of have gone even so far as to torture , yeah, absolutely. and torture, yeah, absolutely. and i'm sure that did take place. >> you know, the difficulty is, of course, these these are people within the, within the country. >> they're not, terrorists that,

that have been repatriated into different countries, etc. you know, i've sat next to paedophiles, i've sat next to murderer , in court and in the, murderer, in court and in the, in the custody suite and the one thing that the police are expected to do and the military are, is to show control, and control , is are, is to show control, and control, is something are, is to show control, and control , is something that control, is something that generally i think in the uk, we do and, and you know, we've got to the silly stage now where even when police officers handcuff prisoners, they get criticised , which is, you know, criticised, which is, you know, if you go to france and you go on to a riot, you're going to get beaten up by the by the police. really doesn't police. that really doesn't happenin police. that really doesn't happen in the uk. mean, there happen in the uk. i mean, there are instances, but very rare, very overreact. >> perhaps >> so do you think perhaps there's a, there's a middle ground? i can't believe i'm quite saying this, but obviously not, so perhaps we're too soft in this country, but obviously the russians and perhaps even the russians and perhaps even the french go too far. where? where is the goldilocks zone here? >> well, listen, what we want. i think , and what society wants.

think, and what society wants. what the police want is decent sentences for those that are convicted of crime. that's not happening in the uk. you know, we're we're releasing terrorists. unbelievable we we're releasing terrorists back into society in the uk. i just want justice. >> just want justice to be served essentially. thank you very much, chris phillips. really great to get your perspective on this. former head of the national counter terrorism security office. i think going to back to think we're going to go back to baltimore now, where a search and rescue is very much underway . after that collision with the main there . main bridge, there. >> yes, we'll be looking at these pictures and delving into what precisely happened after these messages. this is good afternoon, britain. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hi there. welcome to the latest forecast for gb news from

the met office. some places will get away with a dry day today, but many others will see another spell of heavy and persistent rainfall with snow . for upland rainfall with snow. for upland parts of scotland, we've got low pressure centred across southwestern parts, a few showers still going in the far southwest , as well as for parts southwest, as well as for parts of wales. also showers into the northeast of scotland for a time, with these falling as snow over the hills . but it turns over the hills. but it turns increasingly damp across northern into the northern ireland into the midlands and the southeast. by the middle of the afternoon . the the middle of the afternoon. the rain persistent and it's going to feel quite cold under that wet weather, and it's going to be a cold day for scotland and northern england, with temperatures in the mid to high single figures that cold single figures with that cold air then the rain air in place, then the rain moves north into much of northern england , north wales northern england, north wales through the midlands, east anglia and then as it reaches southern and central scotland, it will be falling as snow above 2 or 300m, settling with a few centimetres hills and centimetres over hills and mountains. it's going to feel cold in the north. further

south, temperatures down to 5 or 6. first thing some clear spells, but a wet start for many , especially for northern ireland into much of scotland as well, and then another band of rain sweeps through southwestern parts as well as wales , turning parts as well as wales, turning to showers as the day goes on and these showers be and these showers will be lively. gusty lively. hail, thunder, gusty winds well in between some winds as well in between some brighter interludes, but it will continue to feel on the cold side. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers, sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good afternoon. britain it's 1:00 on tuesday, the 26th of march. >> an enormous search and rescue mission is underway after a cargo ship crashes into a bridge in baltimore, sending cars and

people plunging into the river below. we'll bring you updates and ask, how on earth did such a tragedy happen? >> as the uk delivers food aid to civilians in gaza, the government faces a backlash from some tory mps after britain votes for an israel ceasefire without conditions at the united nafions. nations. >> hugh grant reveals a possible shock career move into politics. of course, he's played the role of the prime minister in the past, so could brits fall in love actually with him as leader? very . leader? very. good. >> now, i've suspected that , >> now, i've suspected that, hugh grant might want to dabble in a little bit of politics. he's very vocal on the old social media. he seems to detest the government. >> he participated in the 2019

election. yes. i, went along to a press conference with hugh grant when he supported the liberal democrat candidate for the cities of london and westminster in 2019, and he stood in, in one of the garden in one of the squares in, in westminster, and there was a sort of gaggle of us journalists around all sorts of slightly. wow, it's hugh grant talking about canvassing . and it was all about canvassing. and it was all slightly odd, but i think everyone remembers his role in love actually as a slightly a slightly cameroonian prime minister, a cameroonian prime minister, a cameroonian prime minister before david cameron was he's not really like that, though, according to his social media profile. >> he's more of wing >> he's more of a left wing agitator these days. >> think he sees himself >> well, i think he sees himself as a centrist. he sees as a as a centrist. he sees himself as a liberal democrat. not that . not sure about that. >> brexit, brexit might >> i think brexit, brexit might have him a little. have radicalised him a little. >> although he back the >> yes, although he did back the lib 2019. the one thing lib dems in 2019. the one thing that i disliked most about that film, though, is when i went

into downing street for the first time and i was sort of walking through the doors and looking up at the pictures on the staircase and, and william basking the william basking in the glory. william pitts writing desk right there, and all the all of the history and all the all of the history and the one thing i couldn't get out of my head was his stupid dance. >> well, anyway, let us know at home. not about dance, but home. not about the dance, but about whether you hugh about whether you think hugh grant a good leader , grant would be a good leader, yes, that's the question. hugh grant for prime minister gb views at gv news.com. but let's get your headlines. >> emily. thank you. the top stories this hour a major search and rescue operations underway in the us city of baltimore after a bridge collapsed early this morning. if you're watching on tv, you can see this video showing the moment a cargo ship crashed into the francis scott key bridge . it happened around key bridge. it happened around 130 local time this morning . 130 local time this morning. multiple people were on the one and a half mile long bridge at the time. two people were

recovered from the water. one is now in a critical condition . we now in a critical condition. we can take you live now to baltimore, where you can see the aftermath of that tragedy. this morning, authorities say the cause is not believed to be terror related. rescue efforts continue. officials say more than seven people may still be unaccounted for. the mayor of baltimore, brandon scott, says now is the time to focus on all those who've been impacted. >> this is an unthinkable tragedy. we have to first and foremost pray for all of those who are impacted. those families are pray for our first responders and thank them, all of them working together city, state, local , to make sure that state, local, to make sure that we are working through this tragedy , this is an ongoing, tragedy, this is an ongoing, active , research, that we're active, research, that we're having right now . we're going to having right now. we're going to continue, as you heard from chief wallace to throughout as long as we have to be doing that, we will do it.

>> but we have to be thinking about families and people about the families and people impacted . impacted. >> the watchdog has >> the health watchdog has flagged calls ongoing flagged what it calls ongoing concerns at the nhs trust, which treated the man who killed barnaby webber. grace o'malley kumar and school caretaker ian coates. waldo calocane received treatment at the nottinghamshire trust in its review. the care quality commission says steps must be taken to improve processes and protect the public from the risk of harm. the health secretary, victoria atkins , called for a rapid atkins, called for a rapid review of the trust in january . review of the trust in january. three children who were killed in bristol last month died from stab wounds, according to an inquest. the bodies of faris bash, aged seven. jerry bash, who was three, and nine month old mohammad bash, were found in the sea mills area. a 42 year old woman was arrested on suspicion of murder earlier this month. she was taken to hospital for injuries that were not life threatening and was detained under the mental health act . the

under the mental health act. the director of russia's security service says the us, britain and ukraine are responsible for last week's terror attack at a concert hall near moscow . at concert hall near moscow. at least 139 people were killed when gunmen stormed the venue on friday, islamic state has claimed responsibility. russian president vladimir putin has admitted that radical islamists carried out the attack, but continues to insist that ukraine was involved. allegations kyiv denies . the was involved. allegations kyiv denies. the high court has ruled. wikileaks founder julian assange can appeal against his extradition to the united states. us authorities have been asked to provide assurances on whether mr assange can rely on the first amendment, which provides a right to free speech, or whether he might face the death penalty. a further hearing will now be held in may. it's oven will now be held in may. it's over. an alleged conspiracy to obtain and disclose national defence information . following defence information. following the publication of leaked documents relating to the afghanistan and iraq wars.

julian's wife stella, who attended the court hearing today, said she found the decision to delay her husband's appeal against extradition to the bizarre . the us utterly bizarre. >> but the courts have done have been to invite a political intervention from the united states to send a letter saying it's all okay. i find this astounding five years into this case, the united states has managed to show the court that their case remains an attack on press freedom and an attack on julian's life . julian's life. >> britain and the united states are accusing china of carrying out a global campaign of malicious cyber attacks. it's an unprecedented move with britain publicly blaming china for targeting the electoral commission watchdog and the email accounts of mps and peers . email accounts of mps and peers. british intelligence service believe that chinese spies are likely to use hacked information

to target critics of xi jinping's government, and the king and queen are to attend an easter service at saint george's chapel easter service at saint george's chapel, buckingham palace, says the royal couple will spend the easter celebration at windsor castle this sunday, shortly after. the easter bunny, of course, completes his delivery of chocolate eggs. it's the king's significant king's most significant appearance was appearance since he was diagnosed . for the diagnosed with cancer. for the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts now back to tom and . back to tom and. emily. >> good afternoon britain. it's 1:07. now i must say we will be live in baltimore in the next few minutes, where we're expecting a press conference. but back closer to home, rishi sunak's grilling by the house of commons liaison committee. those are the committee chairs of each

of those committees. they're all in this super committee and he's sitting before them right now. he's being grilled over the economy, public services, global issues and strategic thinking in government. very exciting. yes. >> is anything missing there is that practically every area of policy is this very specific, this is a bi annual event. >> it's a bi annual event. so these are only half the committee chairs in parliament. the in six months time, the other half the committee other half of the committee chairs grill him. but it's chairs will grill him. but it's very prime very different from prime minister's less minister's questions. it's less theatrical . it's sort of, theatrical. it's less sort of, you know, and forth. this you know, back and forth. this is more forensic in its is much more forensic in its grilling of the prime minister, presumably this is something that the prime minister will have been preparing for quite a while at the top of agenda. while at the top of the agenda. >> expecting the prime >> we're expecting the prime minister questioned over minister to be questioned over china's cyber attacks and china's recent cyber attacks and also the sanctions that we may be imposing on the nation. so there he is, rishi sunak , being there he is, rishi sunak, being questioned, beginning his questioning. we'll bring you highlights, of course, and as

tom said, he's going to be asked questions on everything from the economy to public services to global issues, strategic thinking. >> but we must say he is being grilled by around half of the select committee chairs. one of the select committee chairs who isn't grilling him right now is sir robert goodwill. and the reason he's not grilling rishi sunak right now is because he's, joining us live. but of course, sir robert , you get your chance sir robert, you get your chance in the other half of the, of the, liaison committees that occur every six months. just, how how intense is this for the prime minister >> well, you know, certainly you talked about prime minister's questions. i remember when i was a minister, you know, when you had questions across the floor of house, you gave of the house, you gave an answer. it was a lame answer. and if it was a lame answer. and if it was a lame answer that didn't really matter. if you're actually matter. but if you're actually in a select committee in front of a select committee or the liaison or in front of the liaison committee in this stage, you know, follow up. and if know, they can follow up. and if you so you will you give a layman so you will be held account. is much held to account. so it is a much more difficult but more difficult situation. but having rishi do this

having seen rishi do this a couple of times, he does tend to take it in his stride. and unlike his predecessors, he really is top of the detail . really is on top of the detail. you know he doesn't need to have really is on top of the detail. y(bignow he doesn't need to have really is on top of the detail. y(big brief1e doesn't need to have really is on top of the detail. y(big brief ofdoesn't need to have really is on top of the detail. y(big brief of notes. need to have really is on top of the detail. y(big brief of notes. he ed to have really is on top of the detail. y(big brief of notes. he knowsiave a big brief of notes. he knows all the he knows all the all the facts, he knows all the facts and figures. so think facts and figures. so i think rishi has nothing to worry about in situation. in this particular situation. i think first one i did was think the first one i did was when prime ministerjohnson , he when prime ministerjohnson, he was the day before when prime ministerjohnson, he wa resigned the day before when prime ministerjohnson, he wa resigned afterie day before when prime ministerjohnson, he wa resigned after the ay before when prime ministerjohnson, he wa resigned after the chris ore he resigned after the chris pincher and really did pincher affair and he really did feel at that particular session. >> yes. as he was, as you were grilling him, robert, there were dozens ministers resigning. dozens of ministers resigning. i mean, perhaps mean, that was perhaps the most dramatic committee ever . dramatic liaison committee ever. >> it was it was the first one i attended, actually. and i thought, well, you know, is he going to be like this every time? but no, i think i think, rishi, it's important that the prime get to prime minister does get to do this. departmental prime minister does get to do this. will departmental prime minister does get to do this. will do epartmental prime minister does get to do this. will do epartmeatal ministers will do this as a matter of course. we've got steve barclay coming into my committee afternoon to give committee this afternoon to give his sort of work of his department session. we'll be asking sorts of asking about all sorts of things, including security, things, including food security, animal all the sort animal welfare and all the sort

of issues within his department. but of course, prime but of course, the prime minister has be across all minister has to be across all the departments in government. you to you know, he needs to know what's going on in health, education, everywhere education, in defra, everywhere else. is a much else. so, you know, it is a much tougher job being prime minister. course, tougherjob being prime minister. course, you minister. and of course, you know, other ministers, he know, unlike other ministers, he he flanked of he isn't flanked by lots of officials passing him notes. you know, he's there his own. know, he's there on his own. and, i think that that shows and, and i think that that shows just a job is being just how tough a job it is being prime minister to be honest. >> now, rishi sunak last appeared the liaison appeared before the liaison committee in december. i understand it dominated. if understand it was dominated. if you remember, by the conflict in gaza, do you imagine that will be again today ? be raised again today? >> i imagine it will be. i mean, i made a point of not reading the briefing notes for the meeting because i thought you know, that's a matter of parliamentary privilege. so any speculation about what's speculation i make about what's being asked isn't because i've read it in the notes. yes, read it in the notes. but yes, i'm sure will come out. in i'm sure that will come out. in fact, an urgent question fact, there's an urgent question in afternoon on in parliament this afternoon on that particular well. that particular issue as well. but the economy will but i'm sure the economy will come the post come up. maybe the post office horizon last time i was horizon scandal, last time i was there, i asked about food security, which is big issue.

security, which is a big issue. you farmers very much you know, farmers are very much under cosh. we had under the cosh. we had a demonstration in london yesterday farmers worried yesterday from farmers worried about substandard goods. >> yes. and of course, you chair the defra committee , the the defra committee, the department for environment, food and rural affairs, as you mentioned, you'll be grilling the minister, the secretary of state, steve barclay, later today , what is your assessment today, what is your assessment of just how angry farmers are in this country at the moment? we saw their protest in westminster yesterday. the tractors that came down, millbank , is there came down, millbank, is there a sense that there is a growing sense that there is a growing sense of anger from farmers, as we've seen with those protests on the continent at. >> i think it's a different issue here in britain because we've known for a long time that we're going to change the way that farmers are supported by rewarding for delivering rewarding them for delivering environmental goods. the reason that we're all demonstrating in europe just europe is because that's just been them , we've also been sprung on them, we've also seen, course, demonstrations been sprung on them, we've also

se�*walescourse, demonstrations been sprung on them, we've also se�*wales where demonstrations been sprung on them, we've also se�*wales where the nonstrations been sprung on them, we've also se�*wales where the welsh |tions been sprung on them, we've also se�*wales where the welsh labour in wales where the welsh labour government have been doing some terrible things to farmers . and terrible things to farmers. and indeed, i think that worries farmers that we farmers in england that if we were have government were to have a labour government later this they would have later this year, they would have a of policy. it later this year, they would have a important of policy. it later this year, they would have a important of |wecy. it later this year, they would have a important of we hold it is important that we hold ministers account. we'll ministers to account. we'll be talking a variety talking about a whole variety of issues and maybe, you issues and i hope maybe, you know, not everybody will want to watch the liaison committee. they might into our they might tune into our committee well this afternoon. >> robert, what happens >> so, robert, what happens after liaison committee. so after the liaison committee. so the ask all the committee heads ask all these in detail questions of the prime minister and what he's doing about various topics and issues that concern our country. what happens? is there essentially a scorecard you say he's held to account? is he told you need to improve in this area or that area ? or that area? >> i think you guys in the media are the ones who do the scorecarding and deciding how people have performed and how the minister, across his the prime minister, across his brief and of course, you know, these are broadcast live. so everyone can watch it and understand what's happening. and

then of course, if there were particular issues affecting a certain department, then of course, those particular select committees would committees themselves would take it ministers and, and it up with ministers and, and make that part of their agenda. but it looks like rishi looks fairly comfortable to me. sat there answering questions. as i say, he is across most of the brief should never cease brief and i should never cease to amazed how he can. to be amazed how he can. >> robert, you think he >> sir robert, do you think he should feel comfortable sitting there all the big there considering all the big issues that are facing the country ? and of course the country? and of course the conservatives polling rather badly at the moment. last time i saw only 1 in 5 voters are thinking about voting conservative, or at least planning to vote conservative. you've got illegal immigration, you've got the cost of living still biting . you've got the still biting. you've got the economy pretty much stagnant when it comes to growth . should when it comes to growth. should he sitting there feeling he be sitting there feeling comfortable? really >> well, i think we should be comfortable that we're doing the right thing for the country. we've seen inflation come down dramatically . we've got those dramatically. we've got those cuts in national insurance being fed so i think, you

fed through. so i think, you know, looking to the future, things to get better things are going to get better over the summer. we may well be able flights into rwanda, able to get flights into rwanda, which think will be a game which i think will be a game changen which i think will be a game changer. but you look closely changer. but if you look closely at you'll see there at the polls, you'll see there are of people out there are a lot of people out there still undecided. that's why still undecided. and that's why i are quite nervous i think labour are quite nervous because undecided because of those undecided people, where to go. if people, not sure where to go. if you look previous general you look at previous general elections the elections where, you know, the conservative always conservative position has always improved, up to polling improved, going up to polling day, particularly during the campaign. remember that 92 campaign. i remember that 92 campaign. i remember that 92 campaign major campaign when john major got out his and people , you his soapbox and people, you know, looked at, you know, better the devil they know than maybe they don't. so, maybe the one they don't. so, you think, you know, the you know, i think, you know, the result of the general election is conclusion. is not a foregone conclusion. and it's up to rishi to, and i think it's up to rishi to, you know, a considered and you know, take a considered and thoughtful approach to the policies and make sure that, you know , people can see we're doing know, people can see we're doing the right thing for the country. we through some pretty we come through some pretty tough with pandemic tough times with the pandemic and the energy crisis after the invasion of ukraine. and i think that rishi has shown that he's got a steady hand on the tiller, both in the treasury when he was

chancellor as prime minister. >> well, robert goodwill, >> well, sir robert goodwill, thank much for your thank you very much for your experience views. indeed on experience and views. indeed on what going right now in what is going right now on in the liaison committee. of course, we will bring course, as i say, we will bring highlights this committee, highlights from this committee, but dry detail, now we but not every dry detail, now we are expecting a press conference live in baltimore in just a few minutes time. >> yes, we are the developing situation there. a bridge , of situation there. a bridge, of course, collapsed early this morning after it was hit by a cargo ship, we're going to get the very latest , i believe we the very latest, i believe we have marc white, our homeland security editor here with us, who joins us now, mark, do we have any update over how exactly this happened , well, the theory this happened, well, the theory certainly points to some kind of mechanical failure on board this container ship. there's no indication of any link to terrorism. in fact, the fbi has said just in the last hour there is no evidence pointing to a

deliberate act here. and the evidence that's come out in terms of some of the video that's been posted, does show this container ship as it moves towards that central column on the bridge appears to go dark. a couple of times, indicating that there may well have been a loss of power. and to that end, abc , of power. and to that end, abc, the news channel in the united states , has reported that they states, has reported that they have heard evidence that the skipper of the container ship had contacted the us coastguard to report power failures on board the vessel, and that the vessel was indeed drifting towards the bridge. so clearly thatis towards the bridge. so clearly that is a key focus for the investigators. but in tandem with that slow time investigation is the fast time search and rescue operation that is still underway and some unanswered questions. there as

well, about how many people have been caught up in this, what they've said in the last news conference is that at least seven people all have fallen into the water. these seven people, we believe, were construction workers who were on the bridge carrying out maintenance work overnight on sections of concrete on the bndge sections of concrete on the bridge itself , sections of concrete on the bridge itself, but it may be that that figure grows . and what that that figure grows. and what that that figure grows. and what that figure doesn't take into account, we understand , is the account, we understand, is the number of vehicles that were on this bridge. now it's a very busy bridge. normally during the day it in the course of a year, deals with about 11 million vehicles that cross that bridge . vehicles that cross that bridge. but at night, obviously 130 in the morning , then the number of the morning, then the number of vehicles is going to be vastly reduced. having said that, there would have been multiple vehicles on the bridge at the

time. >> mark, i should just say we are looking at astonishing pictures now that show the real scale of what has happened here. it's we've seen we've all seen the very far away shots of this bndge the very far away shots of this bridge sort of collapsing, and it looks like something out of playmobil. but this, is an playmobil. but this, this is an enormous ship, 100,000 enormous cargo ship, 100,000 tonnes containers , all across tonnes containers, all across that ship. and just the twisted metal of the bridge that has collapsed all around it. it's astonishing to see. >> yeah, we'll be interesting to see just what damage that ship has sustained below the waterline as well, because clearly it has collided with a central column, a concrete column of that bridge that resulted in this loss of structural integrity , in this structural integrity, in this almost complete collapse of this bridge. now, if there is significant damage to the hull below the waterline, then as

they attempt to remove this container ship, then there could be more significant problems ahead with trying to get that vehicle. that container ship back to port. and in the meantime, of course, we can see from the images you've got the twisted metal that you describe there from the bridge superstructure strung across the river and while that is in place, and that is likely to be in place for many weeks to come, then that shipping port in baltimore , the container port, baltimore, the container port, is going to be closed to traffic. that is going to cause obviously significant disruption to that container port, which is one of the us, one of the us's busiest shipping and container ports in baltimore. and of course, it also is going to disrupt the flow of traffic because that's a main arterial route across this river up

towards philadelphia, new york, and new jersey. always busy dunng and new jersey. always busy during the day, but even at night, certainly a number of vehicles, it would have been on that bridge. sonar. that the emergency services have on a number of their rescue craft in the river at the moment has detected vehicles on the bottom on the riverbed, but they're not as yet saying how many vehicles we might get more of an indication with this next news conference that is due to start imminently . imminently. >> well, thank you very much, mark. and, we've been told considering the temperatures of the water there, discovering and rescuing the seven people that we know may well be in the water, it's going to be very difficult. >> yes, indeed. i mean, it's, nine degrees. is the temperature

overnight in this river. so given that anyone in the water for more than ten, 20 minutes is going to become hypothermic and of course, once you become hypothermic, then that really leads to a loss of your sort of ability to cling on to anything , ability to cling on to anything, to swim to the shore. you just lose your strength, so if people are in the water for any period of time, it doesn't bode well at all. the hope is that perhaps people have managed to cling to some of the bridge superstructure, which is still above the water line, or perhaps have been carried down by the currents in the river, by the flow of the river, or indeed the tidal flow towards the river bank. so as a lot of the effort is continuing around the river area where that bridge has collapsed, there is also

searches that are taking place up and down the river and on both banks of the river. >> it's important to say that the federal aviation authority has now instituted a no fly zone around this entire bay of baltimore. no drones, no flights. they say they might interfere with the ongoing, rescue operation, interesting to see that this is an ongoing operation. and they believe that perhaps there might be people in the water there. but mark white, thank you very much for bringing us the very latest around these. and just to absorb these astonishing pictures here in, in, in the harbour there. i mean, it is just staggering, almost, almost, defies words there. it's also important to note that there are going to be political implications for this. the infrastructure agenda is a huge issue in the upcoming election in november. and indeed, the secretary of state

for transportation in the united states, in biden's cabinet, is a man that might be familiar to a number of people who followed the, the last primary set of elections. that's secretary pete buttigieg. this could be a real break or make a moment for the man that was once known as mayor pete . he did surprisingly well pete. he did surprisingly well in the primary elections against biden four years ago, but is in his cabinet. and how he responds to all of this will be really fascinating. >> absolutely. and white house will very much be monitoring this this with the potential loss of life, unfortunate . but loss of life, unfortunate. but of course, many questions to be asked of the authorities , how asked of the authorities, how this could happen, how this could happen in such a massive major port. >> it's good you ask that, emily, because after the break, we'll be discussing precisely how this could have happened with a structural expert. more on

i >> -- >> it is 128. you're watching or listening to. good afternoon , listening to. good afternoon, britain. well, let's return to those astonishing pictures from baltimore. and we're going to be speaking to sean keys , the ceo speaking to sean keys, the ceo of civil and structural engineering firm sutcliffe . engineering firm sutcliffe. we're also awaiting a press conference, which will be imminent, sean, thank you very much for coming on the show. lots of people concerned with how this could happen in such a major port. this ship was only 20 minutes into its journey. could there have been something structurally unsound with this bndge structurally unsound with this bridge , or is this just bridge, or is this just something that would have happened to any bridge? considering the weight and size of this ship . good morning. of this ship. good morning. thank you for having me today. >> so there's the scale and size of this, ship is enormous. >> i think it weighs something in the order of 165,000 tons. >> and if a heavy goods vehicle

weighs between 10 and 40 tons, it means we're we're somewhere in the range of four for 4000 ish type plus vehicles, hitting it all simultaneously . it all simultaneously. >> so if a ship of this size hits a bridge column or a bridge structure of this size, which is largely unprotected, the bridge is highly unlikely to survive. >> this is literally like a human being walking into a pack of cards. the pack of cards is just not going to survive, so i suspect that there's nothing wrong with the bridge. the bndgeis wrong with the bridge. the bridge is being designed to american standards, which is slightly different to uk standards, but it's virtually impossible to design a bridge to resist a full impact of such a huge, huge , structure. if you if huge, huge, structure. if you if you look at the size of the cargo ship, it's, it's enormous. and to actually design a bridge to resist that type of impact,

it would probably have to be 100 or 1000 times stronger , which or 1000 times stronger, which would obviously mean that the cost for constructing that bndge cost for constructing that bridge would be 100 or 1000 times greater. >> those are staggering numbers, really staggering numbers . sean, really staggering numbers. sean, we were reminded a little bit earlier about newton's second law in all of this, and people who have once upon a time done a physics gcse might remember it that force is equal to mass times acceleration. this thing didn't have to be going particularly fast. the acceleration did not have to be that great. if the mass, if the weight of this thing was was so heavy. >> no, absolutely. it's almost like the equivalent of an ant. it climbs over your toe or a car drives over your toe. the ant makes no difference at all. but the car is huge that the force from just the sheer mass of it. the conservation of momentum is just off the scale. and if you

look at all the containers on the on the ship , there's so many the on the ship, there's so many containers on that ship, and each one of those, could be on the back of a heavy goods vehicle. so you get the feel for the size of the falls from, as you say, newton's second law. and this momentum, it can only be transferred into the into the structure of the columns, which is supporting the bridge, but it's a really, really sad day . it's a really, really sad day. won a couple of other little statistics america's got on the order of 600,000, bridge structures . and this is an structures. and this is an incredibly rare event i was trying to recall the last time i can remember seeing something like this, but it's such a rare event, and then when it does happen, it really does hit the headunes happen, it really does hit the headlines , but there's clearly headlines, but there's clearly been a problem that's happened with the boat and not the structure. >> yes. essentially what you're saying is this bridge didn't stand a chance. not at all. >> i mean, what's more common?

and i've come i regularly investigate. this is where a vehicle on a british road loses control . and if a heavy vehicle, control. and if a heavy vehicle, heavy goods vehicle loses control and then drives into a building, the building has no chance of survival. and the same appuesin chance of survival. and the same applies in this instance , even applies in this instance, even though the bridge is much stronger. the sheer weight of the cargo vehicle is huge. if this had been a tugboat or a much smaller vehicle, a much smaller boat, much smaller vehicle, a much smaller boat , then you would the smaller boat, then you would the bndge smaller boat, then you would the bridge would have would have survived. typically in the uk we design for accidental impacts on bndgesin design for accidental impacts on bridges in the range of 50 tons. so 50 tons is a huge, huge figure that's bigger than, than you'd expect if it was hit by a heavy goods vehicle at speed. so this is in the range of four 4000 times greater than that. so it really didn't stand. it really didn't stand a chance . really didn't stand a chance. it's like a, you know, you've got an elephant in your front room and the elephant decides it

wants to go through the door. the is not going stop the door is not going to stop it. yeah. >> it's really, really impressive think about impressive to just think about the of of tight the idea of all of those tight what like tiny little what look like tiny little containers on the back of that ship. each those is a big ship. each one of those is a big old in effect, extraordinary. >> it was only 20 minutes into its journey . its journey. >> yes. no, indeed. >> yes. no, indeed. >> thanks, sean. really great to speak to you. sorry. >> we're going to have to leave it. >> i hope the day goes well for you. >> thank you. thank you very much. thank you very much, sean keys, ceo of civil and structural engineering firm sutcliffe. >> well, we are still waiting for that press conference. and as we will as soon as it begins, we will bnng as soon as it begins, we will bring and they'll as soon as it begins, we will bring updates and they'll as soon as it begins, we will bring updates on.nd they'll as soon as it begins, we will bring updates on the :hey'll as soon as it begins, we will bring updates on the search and have updates on the search and rescue operation. but coming up, as uk delivers food aid to as the uk delivers food aid to civilians in gaza, the government from government faces a backlash from tory for its votes at the tory mps for its votes at the united nations. more on that after your headlines with tatiana . tatiana. >> tom thank you. the top stories this hour. a major search and rescue operation is

underway in the us city of baltimore after a bridge collapsed early this morning, a cargo ship crashed into the francis scott key bridge at around 130 local time this morning. multiple people were on the one and a half mile long bndge the one and a half mile long bridge at the time . two people bridge at the time. two people were recovered from the water. one is now in a serious condition. we can take you live to baltimore, where you can see the aftermath of that tragedy. this morning, authorities say the cause is not believed to be terror related. rescue efforts continue. officials say more than seven people may still be unaccounted for. than seven people may still be unaccounted for . the health unaccounted for. the health watchdog has flagged what it calls ongoing concerns at the nhs trust, which treated the man who killed barnaby webber. grace o'malley kumar and ian coates. valdo calocane received treatment at the nottinghamshire trust in its review. the care quality commission says steps must be taken to improve processes and protect the public from the risk of harm. the

director of russia's security service says the us, britain and ukraine are responsible for last week's terror attack at a concert hall near moscow . at concert hall near moscow. at least 139 people were killed when gunmen stormed the venue on friday. islamic state has claimed responsibility . russian claimed responsibility. russian president vladimir putin has admitted that radical islamists carried out the attack, but continues to insist that ukraine was involved. allegations kyiv denies . and the king and queen denies. and the king and queen are to attend an easter service at saint george's chapel , at saint george's chapel, buckingham palace says the royal couple will spend the easter celebration at windsor castle this sunday, shortly after . the this sunday, shortly after. the easter bunny, of course, completes his delivery of chocolate eggs . it's the king's chocolate eggs. it's the king's most significant appearance since with since he was diagnosed with cancer. since he was diagnosed with cancer . for the latest stories, cancer. for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com

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i >> -- >> good afternoon. britain. it's 20 to 2, and the royal air force has now dropped over ten tonnes

of food supplies into gaza . this of food supplies into gaza. this for the first time as part of international efforts to provide assistance to civilians. yes. >> the move comes as the un security council passed a resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire for the month of ramadan, but according to the telegraph, the government has faced some backlash from some tory mps after britain helped pass the resolution, with lord cameron reportedly being challenged by four conservative mps behind closed doors at a 1922 committee meeting. >> well, let's get more on this from our political correspondent, olivia utley and this seemed like it was a fairly bolshy 1922 committee meeting of the backbench conservative mps last night. olivia, i hear, i hear one backbench tory mp accidentally called lord cameron , prime minister >> well, easily done, i think bolshie is absolutely the word for it. >> last night, lord cameron, essentially allowed this un

resolution calling for a ceasefire to pass . 14 of the 15 ceasefire to pass. 14 of the 15 un countries voted for the ceasefire and the us abstained, meaning that it could pass if the us had vetoed it, then it would have been blocked. netanyahu is very angry with biden about this for allowing the resolution to pass, but britain actually voted with the resolution. so calling for a ceasefire, i mean, that does seem like a shift in uk policy. yes the uk has said that. it always has always said that it wants to be working towards a long term ceasefire in israel and gaza, a two sided ceasefire. but this un resolution seems to go a little bit further than that. and as you say, tom, there was a big backlash from conservative mps. four conservative mps. four conservative mps. four conservative mps have gone on the record saying that they are criticised david cameron directly for deserting the us and voting in favour of this motion. so for so long we've seen splits on the labour side in terms of policy towards israel and gaza, and now it seems like we might be beginning

to see the very first cracks in conservative policy on israel and gaza. two the raf has also just dropped this ten tons of aid on gaza. i mean, that doesn't really come as a surprise. it's been long accepted in the uk that there is accepted in the uk that there is a humanitarian crisis in gaza , a humanitarian crisis in gaza, and most countries are doing everything they can to try and avoid a famine situation in that gaza enclave. so those ten tons of aid don't really come as a surprise. but the shift seeming shift in uk policy at least, did come as a bit of a surprise, at least to some tory mps. i mean, is this call for a ceasefire still, conditional on the release of hostages by hamas ? release of hostages by hamas? >> and also the united states abstained, didn't they? so their position is shifting, which gives more room for countries like our own to shift. >> well, exactly. and that's that's what netanyahu, feels sort of betrayed by. the us abstained previously, they have vetoed all un resolutions

calling for an immediate ceasefire. david cameron maintains that the uk position has not changed, that the ceasefire would still be dependent on the release of hamas hostages, but it's not exactly clear how far that un resolution went. so it feels as though, as you say, there is a bit of a global shift away from israel in terms of policy. and thatis israel in terms of policy. and that is certainly how the israeli government is feeling at the moment. they are feeling betrayed by israel, by, by the us.and betrayed by israel, by, by the us. and of course , by the us. and of course, by the nations, which actually voted like ours in favour of that ceasefire and presumably increasingly isolated . increasingly isolated. >> and yes, yes, it seems so. i mean, it seems that lord cameron has actually done some pretty profound and shifting of the uk policy there. perhaps without all too much debate in parliament. but, olivia , thank parliament. but, olivia, thank you very much for bringing us the very latest there, it's interesting because whilst, lord cameron is sort of gallivanting

around the world, perhaps not. i mean, he's, he's a he's a fairly strong representative for the uk. he's listened to in countries around the world, and he seems to be visiting more countries than most foreign secretaries. >> dozens hasn't he already? >> dozens hasn't he already? >> been all over the place. >> he's been all over the place. he's to, i, i can't count he's been to, i, i can't count how many continents every continent he was australia continent he was in australia last week. he's been in the middle east. he's been down to the falkland islands even, and across to the united and across to the united states. and i think perhaps because he's a former minister, he is former prime minister, he is listened to. and i wonder if it was perhaps it was less the americans moving to abstaining that made us then vote for we shifted from abstaining to voting for. perhaps the americans didn't want to be left out as the only p—5 member permanent member of the security council, which the uk is the. the us is france, russia and china are. these are the five most important countries in the un, given that we shifted, perhaps that shifted the

americans to. >> what i don't understand is if you're calling for a ceasefire, thatis you're calling for a ceasefire, that is conditional on the release of hostages, then are you really calling on israel? you're not really. then asking for israel to put their arms down? no, you're it's conditional on hamas to release the hostages. and that doesn't look like it's going to happen. or are you able to or hamas, are you able to negotiate hamas , so what negotiate with hamas, so what exactly you for ? is exactly are you asking for? is it grandstanding? >> yeah. is it is it sort of delicate balance of politicking. but whilst all this is going on, the prime minister is facing a grilling in the house of commons. this is the liaison committee the chairs of various committees of the house of commons, all getting to ask the prime minister far more detailed and perhaps, intensive questions than goes on at prime minister's questions. this is a biannual event. >> yes. and one of the areas where he's going to be asked is about china and the cyber attacks. we heard yesterday from

iain duncan smith and others who have been targeted by the chinese state. even impersonated. yes, and for, for perhaps a nefarious, goals . but perhaps a nefarious, goals. but yes. rishi sunak they're being asked lots of different questions are grilling you might call it an in—depth grilling, far more so than pmqs anyway. >> some of it's really rather dry. they're going through numbers and numbers, we numbers and numbers, and we promise there is a moment promise when there is a moment of, of perhaps intensity will bnng of, of perhaps intensity will bring that straight to you. but for now, for now, that's not so much. but we'll be right back. and we're still expecting. we're still expecting this press conference in baltimore. so please do not go anywhere. as soon as that begins, we'll bring it to you. live

>> okay. it is 10 to 2 in the afternoon, and we're going to bnng afternoon, and we're going to bring you some live pictures from baltimore. because we're expecting a press conference very shortly indeed. there, you're looking at a picture of the huge ship. 100,000 tons is what we've been told. it weighs collidin with the bridge in baltimore. they're huge . large, baltimore. they're huge. large, this was only 20 minutes into the journey, and there is now a huge search and rescue investigation ongoing. so we'll be bringing you that press conference live when we have it. we're likely to hear from the governor. we may hear from the mayor. we may hear from emergency services to yes, we're expecting to hear from wes moore , who's the democratic governor of, maryland , and of course, of, of maryland, and of course, there will be big political questions about this. this is an election year in the united states. infrastructure has been a large part of the political conversation. you often hear donald trump talking about the

crumbling infrastructure of the united states. is this a vivid metaphor of that, or is this a freak accident that could have happened to even the strongest , happened to even the strongest, most well constructed bridge? >> well, i think that might be a bit harsh. i mean, we have heard from a number, a number now to , from a number, a number now to, engineers saying that no bridge could have withstood this type of, impact. >> it doesn't mean it won't be used. >> no, no, you're absolutely right. >> debate and conversation . and >> debate and conversation. and as we gear up for november for that tightly contested presidential election, i'd be surprised, frankly, if i didn't see this in some tv ads. >> campaign literature. yeah, yeah, yeah , biden's biden's yeah, yeah, biden's biden's america, however unfair that is . america, however unfair that is. yeah, but something a little lighter now because we were talking about earlier hugh grant and a potential move into politics. a shock reveal from from the actor he says he's considering. or he probably may considering. or he probably may consider a career swap to entering the world of politics. of course , the actor there he is of course, the actor there he is has played political figures on screen before the prime

minister, no less in love actually, love actually divides, doesn't it? some people like it, some people hate it. film. >> it's a great film, great film, says tom. >> great film . but some of you >> great film. but some of you have have opinions on this. patricia says, please , no, no, patricia says, please, no, no, no, hugh grant is so full of himself and cares only about his own image. graham says hugh grant or any body would be a good leader compared to keir starmer and rishi sunak. well, barbara in bromley, says another sanctimonious lefty, lovey , sanctimonious lefty, lovey, another trump in the making. well, not sure about that. >> well, i think i see where she's coming from because jane says, no, no, no, let's not turn into america , where anyone into america, where anyone famous is somehow considered to be intelligent and presidential material. hugh grant is a lefty liberal lovey, although the whole country has no faith left in our government, i still wouldn't see him as suitable, but it's quite interesting how many of you at home, have been keeping an on hugh grant's politics? >> he has been quite vocal in recent years, particularly since

the brexit vote. yes, i'd say he had a very strong opinion on that, endorsing anti—brexit candidates . candidates. >> yes, in 2019. but it's not just the prime minister. he's played on our screens in love actually . he also played jeremy actually. he also played jeremy thorpe in a very british scandal. the former liberal party leader who who ended up embroiled in a scandal about a male lover, and a and a dead dog, but that's a story, perhaps. well, i loved i loved hugh grant in, bridget jones's diary . diary. >> there you go. >> there you go. >> he was a snake in bridget jones's diary . >> he was a snake in bridget jones's diary. he >> he was a snake in bridget jones's diary . he was >> he was a snake in bridget jones's diary. he was a cad. >> well, yes, he played his character very well. i thought. >> oh, i thought you were trying to say that the character was somehow. i'm just hearing somehow. oh, i'm just hearing that press conference is that the press conference is about to start more substantial matters now than hugh grant's career. we're to be career. we're going to be crossing baltimore , crossing live to baltimore, where that conference is where that press conference is taking . taking place. >> take this moment to speak directly to the people of our

state. so our first responders, i'm in awe of you. i'm in awe of your courage. i'm in awe of your strength. i'm in awe of everything you do for each and everything you do for each and every one of us. you saw a crisis and you said, what can i do to help ? and our response do to help? and our response teams are doing everything in our power to rescue and recover the victims of this collapse, literally as we speak , people literally as we speak, people who as we speak are out. there are divers , our air assets, are divers, our air assets, people who right now are working to save lives and are doing it because the state asked . and we because the state asked. and we will update the public as the work continues . so will update the public as the work continues. so our will update the public as the work continues . so our partners work continues. so our partners inside and outside of government. i know this has been a long night . we started a long night. we started coordinating immediately after the key bridge collapsed. we've been standing together every step of the way from our county leadership to our city

leadership, to our state leadership, to our state leadership , to our federal leadership, to our federal leadership, to our federal leadership . and i'm grateful to leadership. and i'm grateful to call each and every one of you not just colleagues, but i'm grateful to call you friends . grateful to call you friends. and to the people of baltimore and each and every one of the 6.3 million marylanders who call our state home. i recognise that many of us are hurting right now . i recognise that many of us are scared right now, and so i want to be very clear about where everything stands. we are still investigating what happened, but we are quickly gathering details . the gathering details. the preliminary investigation points to an accident. we haven't seen any credible evidence of a terrorist attack . our terrorist attack. our administration is working closely with leaders from all levels of government and society to respond to this crisis, and not just by addressing the immediate aftermath , but also by

immediate aftermath, but also by building a state that is more resilient and a state that's more safe . that is our pledge more safe. that is our pledge and that's our commitment. and we're going to keep that commitment . and lastly, to the commitment. and lastly, to the victims of this tragedy and their loved ones , all of our their loved ones, all of our hearts are broken . we feel your hearts are broken. we feel your loss . we're thinking of you. and loss. we're thinking of you. and we will always be thinking of you. we pray for the construction workers who are on the key bridge, and we pray for everyone who has been touched by this tragedy and their families and all of their loved ones . but and all of their loved ones. but maryland, we will get through this because that is the maryland spirit , this because that is the maryland spirit, and that's what maryland spirit, and that's what maryland is made of. maryland spirit, and that's what maryland is made of . we are maryland is made of. we are maryland is made of. we are maryland tough and we are baltimore strong . so in the face baltimore strong. so in the face of heartbreak, we come together.

we embrace one another, and we come back stronger. that's what we've always done . that's what we've always done. that's what we've always done. that's what we will continue to do. and that's what we're going to get done together. and we're going to pray for baltimore. and i'd like to turn this over to senator van hollen, who's done a remarkable job on our delegation in providing support. so thank you, senator . thank you, governor. >> as the governor said, we come together. >> we come together in baltimore. we come together in maryland . first of all, our maryland. first of all, our hearts go out to all those who were on the bridge and their loved ones. we pray for them. our gratitude goes out to the first responders who, as we speak, are out there continuing to conduct search and rescue operations. i want to thank the governor the local, the mayor, the county executive , all the

the county executive, all the people gathered here as part of team baltimore and team maryland and the federal government is with them as a partner. the coastguard, as we speak, is also part of this mission. coast guard cutters , coast guard, guard cutters, coast guard, aviation assets. i spoke twice today with secretary of transportation pete buttigieg. pete buttigieg has pledged that they will do everything they can to very quickly release emergency response funds for this important project. the national highway transportation administration administrator is on his way to baltimore. if he's not here already, they will be releasing those early funds once all the parties are fully engaged. second, the national transportation safety board . i transportation safety board. i talked to the chair this morning. she and her team will be conducting an investigation of what happened. and finally,

the army corps of engineers naval assets for looking below the surface and clearing all of this is going to be part of the effort the governor is leading team maryland, the mayor and the county executive, of course, team baltimore. but i'm just here to say, together with ben cardin, senator cardin, and congressman fume and others, the federal government is your partner in this effort . thank partner in this effort. thank you. and again, to the people of our state and the people of this great city, we're with you. we love with you. we will get through this together. thank you. governor . you. governor. >> good morning again. paul wiedefeld, secretary of transportation. just a few updates since our meeting this morning, the crew that was out there working was basically repairing potholes. just so you

understand , that had nothing to understand, that had nothing to do with a structural issue at all on the facility, at this time, one person has been rescued and so far and our continue our efforts continue in terms of that, engineers are on site right now determining both some of the structural issues obviously some of the debris field. and we'll start to work that, but we'll work hand in hand with the ntsb before we take any further action in that area. with that, i did want to introduce for introduce the fbi for a few comments well. thank hello. comments as well. thank hello. >> my name is bill delbono . >> my name is bill delbono. >> my name is bill delbono. >> i'm the special agent in charge of the baltimore field office. >> first and foremost, i want to say that our hearts go out to everyone that is impacted by this tragedy, especially the victims and their families . on victims and their families. on behalf of the fbi , i would like behalf of the fbi, i would like to say that we are with you . we to say that we are with you. we are with baltimore, and we're with the partners. every step of

the way . the fbi, on with the partners. every step of the way. the fbi, on very with the partners. every step of the way . the fbi, on very first the way. the fbi, on very first looking at and assessing this matter from an investigative standpoint. i want to be clear that there is no specific or credible information to suggest that there are ties to terrorism in this incident. that there are ties to terrorism in this incident . the fbi has in this incident. the fbi has been part of this response from the beginning. we came within one hour to the command post and quickly lashed up with our very strong partners. all along the way. we will bring whatever resources that the fbi has to bean resources that the fbi has to bear. we've already brought our crisis response , our victim crisis response, our victim services, and just recently our underwater search evidence recovery teams are on site and we will continue to provide all those resources as long as it takes. those resources as long as it takes . and as the investigation

takes. and as the investigation goes on, we will take it to its logical conclusion along with our partners , to the people of our partners, to the people of baltimore, to the public. i actually be patient as we go through this and as information becomes available to us. and lastly, i want to say thank you. thank you to our partners . thank thank you to our partners. thank you to everyone who , in the fbi you to everyone who, in the fbi and counts on the fbi . we will and counts on the fbi. we will always bring what we need to the people of baltimore, and we are with you. next, i'd like to introduce the coastguard . introduce the coastguard. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> the coastguard is still actively searching at this time . actively searching at this time. we are using response boat crews from two of our local coastguard stations . as one of helo stations. as one of our helo crews from air station. crews from an air station. atlantic city , and also one of atlantic city, and also one of our cutter crews on one of our 87 foot boats. we will 87 foot patrol boats. we will continue work with local , continue to work with our local, state and federal partners dunng state and federal partners during thank you .

during this tragedy. thank you. governor. governor. governor. from this side, we're going to start from this side as far as you are aware, was the collapse of that bridge inevitable as that ship hit that part of the bndge that ship hit that part of the bridge ? bndge? >> no, we're still in the process of investigating exactly what happened. so we don't have any further details about whether or not it was inevitable or not. >> no structural issue with the bndge? >> no. there was in fact, the bndge >> no. there was in fact, the bridge was actually fully up to code. we have no further code. so we have no further information what was what information about what was what happened during that time. >> all shipping, >> governor, is all shipping, all in and out the all shipping in and out of the port stopped completely. port now stopped completely. >> have any estimate? >> and do you have any estimate? very how long it very early on as to how long it will before shipping can will be before shipping can resume port baltimore? resume to the port of baltimore? >> we have we don't >> yeah, we don't have we don't have estimates on timeline, have any estimates on timeline, because our exclusive because right now our exclusive focus saving lives. our focus is on saving lives. our exclusive is on and exclusive focus is on search and rescue. everyone. everyone in the middle. >> can you give us a better sense the number? sense for the number? >> we've heard.

>> because we've heard. >> because we've heard. >> i know, mr wiedefeld said one have rescued, earlier have been rescued, but earlier from we heard that two from baltimore we heard that two have rescued. have been rescued. >> tell us the total >> can you tell us the total numbers talking about? numbers we're talking about? that may be that you're searching for and how many have been rescued? >> well . >> well. >> well. >> there are eight individuals. six are being searched for right now. one is at was taken to the hospital and one is not in the hospital and one is not in the hospital that we're speaking to. >> so six unaccounted for? yes. and does that involve individuals that may have been individuals that may have been in vehicles that went in the water, or is that just the construction? >> no, we believe it's the construction crew. >> so we don't think there's anyone in in vehicles in the water. >> no, we do not believe so. thank you. >> okay. we'll take questions right here. take this question here, governor. >> two questions quick. how quickly did you find out about what happened here? and what was your when you heard the your reaction when you heard the scale what just at scale of what just occurred at that bridge today ? that bridge earlier today? >> well, i it was, >> well, i mean, i it was, i think it was probably within

minutes of, of, of everything less than an hour when i know that my phone first rang, and, you know, first from the mayor of baltimore and also from our chief of staff, and it was, we know the key bridge i've written over the key bridge countless times. so many of us know the key bridge because it is our normal commute. this is a place thatis normal commute. this is a place that is a normal commute route for over 30,000 marylanders every single day. and so to hear the words that the key bridge has collapsed, it's shocking , has collapsed, it's shocking, and heartbreaking. and immediately, the first thought and the first ideas go back to what happened to the people. where are we? what was the impact on, on, on on human life, but for every single one of us who are marylanders, the words that the key bridge is gone. it it still shakes us because for

over for 47 years, that's all we've known . and so this is, we've known. and so this is, this is this is, not just not just unprecedented from what we're seeing and what we're looking at today. it's heartbreaking. governor, can you confirm that the crew on the ship, alerted authorities that it had lost propulsion and was in trouble , we can we can in trouble, we can we can confirm that, that the crew , confirm that, that the crew, notified, notified authorities of a power issue. yes. >> and that they had lost power on the ship? >> yes, sir. was there any ability to shut down the bridge before we gonna take the question right here, i'll get the number for you. >> were looking for seven people and two have been rescued. and now you are looking for six people, but one has been rescued. >> so three people has invested in total, a total of eight. excuse a total of eight. one excuse me. a total of eight. one rescued in hospital, one in, not in hospital, but it has , we have

in hospital, but it has, we have communicated with that person and then six that we are searching for and working on the problem with all eight of them. the. yes, they were all related to the construction program. yes. >> we heard that multiple vehicles went into the water. >> any word on how many vehicles went into the water and the condition of those people that were the vehicle? condition of those people that wernot the vehicle? condition of those people that wernot ate vehicle? condition of those people that wernot at this1icle? condition of those people that wernot at this time. well there >> not at this time. well there we've been hearing from the governor the state of governor of the state of maryland, wes moore, senator maryland, wes moore, the senator for , christopher van for maryland, christopher van hollen jr, the fbi, the coastguard, and many others, too, on the search and rescue operation. >> what they just describe as the exclusive focus of their efforts at this time on this search and rescue operation, with six unaccounted for individuals? yes >> and reiterating that they don't believe this to be terror related . as it stands, shall we related. as it stands, shall we get some analysis from our homeland security editor , mark homeland security editor, mark white, who's been listening in on this press conference, mark, what have we learned? >> well , the most interesting

>> well, the most interesting part was right at the end there with confirmation on some of the numbers . so with confirmation on some of the numbers. so eight with confirmation on some of the numbers . so eight construction numbers. so eight construction workers had fallen into the water. one recovered uninjured, one critically injured and six still missing. these construction workers were carrying out maintenance on the bridge, filling potholes effectively on the bridge when it collapsed , interestingly, the it collapsed, interestingly, the governor others were asked about the vehicles that were on that bndge the vehicles that were on that bridge and whether there was any information on the number of vehicles or persons involved . vehicles or persons involved. and they said that they didn't have that information at that time. so we're looking for six people who are missing potentially , who have drowned potentially, who have drowned now after all of these hours . now after all of these hours. but no word yet on just how many vehicles were on this bridge, beanng vehicles were on this bridge, bearing in mind it was 130 in

the morning. so a lot less busy than normal. but i've seen some of the security camera video from the bridge in the moments before this container ship collapsed and collided with the bndge collapsed and collided with the bridge itself. and you can see there are certainly vehicles zipping across the bridge , a few zipping across the bridge, a few at a time. so there would have been numbers of vehicles, not potentially high numbers of vehicles, but numbers of vehicles, but numbers of vehicles on that bridge that ended up in the water. and we heard earlier at a news conference from the emergency services that the marine, element of the police and the fire service who are out there in boats , have with them sonar, in boats, have with them sonar, those sonar devices have detected vehicles on the bottom of the river on the riverbed. but again , they couldn't say how but again, they couldn't say how many vehicles at this stage .

many vehicles at this stage. >> so that's interesting that they weren't able to identify so far, how many vehicles were on that bridge, i would have thought that there would be some way of finding that out through, cctv or some kind of security. i don't know, mark. >> yeah. i mean, sometimes, you know, it's an imperative for us to find out things like this in numbers . it to find out things like this in numbers. it isn't to find out things like this in numbers . it isn't necessarily numbers. it isn't necessarily for them to start counting on cctv. the number of vehicles that crossed the bridge prior to the collapse. i'm sure they do know that for whatever reason, they've decided not to share that kind of information with us at the moment. but you're right. like any, piece of big infrastructure, there will be security cameras in play because they will want to know how many vehicles are on the bridge at any given time for just security reasons. so there will be security cameras , i'm sure. security cameras, i'm sure. counting vehicles on and off

that bridge. so they probably have an idea of how many vehicles were actually on at the time and how many vehicles therefore ended up in the water. but for whatever reason, they're not sharing that with us. as i say , i looked at the feed just say, i looked at the feed just pnor say, i looked at the feed just prior to the container ship colliding in about 30s or so before that collision, and i could see about a dozen vehicles that were zipping across the bndge. that were zipping across the bridge . so there's certainly bridge. so there's certainly vehicles on the bridge, that may well have been caught up in this. >> and mark, it was fascinating to hear from wes moore, the governor of maryland, saying, what an icon this bridge has been for half a century. what an icon this bridge has been for half a century . see, been for half a century. see, you can't have imagined, baltimore without it, and he used that that , that turn of used that that, that turn of phrase that i can imagine will be repeated again and again, maryland. tough baltimore strong. >> yes, indeed . i mean, an >> yes, indeed. i mean, an iconic bridge, of course, named

after francis scott key, who wrote the us national anthem, the stars and stripes , and, you the stars and stripes, and, you know, it was named in his honoun know, it was named in his honour. a couple of bridges named in his honour. but the key bndge named in his honour. but the key bridge , over, this river in bridge, over, this river in baltimore is an iconic bridge , a baltimore is an iconic bridge, a very busy bridge that deals with about 11 million vehicles every single year because it's a main highway up towards philadelphia to new york and new jersey, luckily, as i say, at 130 in the morning, far fewer traffic on that bridge. but it is a busy bridge. it will, without doubt, cause very significant issues in terms of traffic flow and disruption in terms, in that area and add to that the situation with the port, the main container port in baltimore is a huge container port, one of

the us's busiest shipping ports thatis the us's busiest shipping ports that is now effectively closed to all shipping because right across this river at the moment are the remnants of this bridge, the tangled wreckage that we're looking at here that ended up in the river and that is going to take days, weeks, months , years, take days, weeks, months, years, for the authorities to be able to recover that wreckage and remove it from the river. and while it's there, there is no route right through for the shipping because you can't really divert the shipping, to the areas of the bridge on either bank because there are a lower level. so you can't have big shipping going underneath those bridge sections. and also it's nearer the banks of the river. it's shallower and not the draft, that a big container ship would need to be able to passage, make passage through that particular area . so while

that particular area. so while that particular area. so while that main structure of twisted wreckage remains in the central channel of this river, then you are going to have the shipping container port in baltimore effectively closed. and all of the container ships that would normally go there diverting to other ports on the eastern seaboard. >> yeah, it's really interesting how when wes moore, the governor, was asked whether or not, they've, they've done any assessments about when this very important port could be reopened. he he simply said no, that this was an exclusively , that this was an exclusively, focused search and rescue operation as things stand and that his teams have not been , that his teams have not been, assessing when this could be cleared as a wreckage or the ports could be reopened . ports could be reopened. >> no, because all of the activities , as you say, as activities, as you say, as search and rescue. but in terms of recovery as well, the

vehicles that are on the bottom of the river, on the riverbed will be the first priority to be recovered. so the efforts involving technical crews to go down to lift up those vehicles , down to lift up those vehicles, that will be the primary focus long before they start looking at lifting and recovering wreckage from the riverbed. and indeed, that wreckage that's jutting up from the river. >> well, mark white, thank you very much for bringing us that latest information. as, of course, that conference course, that press conference has now wrapped up in baltimore. >> this is interesting to hear. you know, how the americans respond to situations like this, a huge outpouring of support for the emergency services . there's the emergency services. there's lots of love, lots of love, lots of talking about love and support. and in the face of tragedy and how, you know, where's, more the, the, the governor there talking all about

how, he wants to build a more resilient and safer state to the extent that, maureen has written in to ask, was the governor of maryland making a political speech because he's up for election or in charge of an emergency ? emergency? >> well, he's not up for an election this year. he was elected two years ago in november 2022. he's halfway november 2022. so he's halfway through his four year terms in office. no doubt, the eyes office. but no doubt, the eyes office. but no doubt, the eyes of the country, the eyes of the world, will have been on him at this stage. he's a newly elected governor, he did speak governor, although he did speak for at some the for barack obama at some of the dnc conventions, in in his rise to power. so maybe he was thinking of bigger office. yes. >> he'll want to be seen as very much stepping up to the challenge. >> he's got an interesting political background. he was a captain in the us army. he fought afghanistan then fought in afghanistan and then went new york after he went off to new york after he after he completed his tours of duty to become investment duty to become an investment banker , made a of money, banker, made a lot of money, donated lots of political donated to lots of political causes and charitable causes before governor of

before becoming the governor of maryland. a really interesting journey there, but it's also interesting. >> sure, there are similar journeys. no going into investment banking, then back into politics. no. >> yes. although, i mean, having the military background always does help, does help. it does help, certainly , but it is interesting certainly, but it is interesting seeing of different seeing all of the different integrated elements of government got the government here. you've got the state government, federal state government, the federal government, all of these federal agencies, the fbi, the coastguard and the senator there saying he's spoken to the secretary of state for transport, pete buttigieg, as well. seems like an well. it seems like it's an enormous effort, and it just reminds us the vast scale of the united states with the resources they deploy. they can deploy. indeed. >> but coming up, we're going to be bringing you news closer be bringing you some news closer to home. we're going to be having a debate about child benefit and whether the cap the two child benefit cap should actually be scrapped. the children's commissioner has come out to say that perhaps we need to rethink this, considering the cost of living crisis, but also perhaps because, fewer of us, fewer of us are having fewer

children or more of us are having fewer children. so should it be scrapped?

right. well, it is 221 in the afternoon. and the children's commissioner, dame rachel de souza, is calling for welfare reforms to try and reduce child poverty in britain. >> she believes child poverty would be eased if families with more than two children can access benefits. currently, this isn't available to anyone born after april 2017, so considering this , we're asking should the this, we're asking should the two child benefit cap be scrapped altogether? >> would this help alleviate child poverty and would this help families potentially have more children? joining us now is the ceo and founder of the cost of living platform now's greg marsh, who says the cap should

be scrapped, and the director of popcorn, mark littlewood, who says it absolutely should not be scrapped. okay, mark, give you the you've got the, potentially the you've got the, potentially the least popular position here. i don't know, we'll see what our viewers have to say. so why do you think it should not be capped , having children is capped, having children is a personal choice, not a choice that i really want nationalised and made a matter for the state, probably. i'd like to eventually move to no child benefit at all. and i understand the arguments about cost of living , and i understand the arguments about cost of living, and things are tough, and economic times are tough, and economic times are bad . all of that's true. but are bad. all of that's true. but of course, the biggest cost of living for a majority, an overwhelming majority of households in the uk is their tax bill. and i would actually like us to focus more on getting taxes down, finding other ways to cut the cost of living. the government does an awful lot to make property expensive, food expensive. the day to day necessities expensive. let's get those down rather than assuming

that the way of dealing with a cost of living problem for any particular type of household is always more welfare, this is already 1% of total government spending. to me reasonable spending. seems to me reasonable pragmatic to say we'll help you out your first two kids. out for your first two kids. after that, you're on your own. well, that's a good point, isn't it, greg? >> there are other ways of alleviating the cost alleviating alleviating the cost of living crisis than subsidising people's children through the benefit system. as you as mark said, you could cut taxes instead . taxes instead. >> certainly a government can can can, can stand for election on the platform of cutting taxes. >> and i can see arguments in both directions on that. >> i think the point here that mark glosses over is there is already in practice an incentive in the system and the incentive in the system and the incentive in the system is up to two children and there is state support more than two children and you lose the benefit of that state. >> support for subsequent children. and the consequence of thatis children. and the consequence of that is that larger families are an increasing proportion living in poverty . resolution

in poverty. resolution foundation data suggests that by 2028, more than 50% of children in larger families will be living in relative poverty. the proportion of children in absolute poverty has also now increased the highest level in a generation. so one way or other, there is a serious problem which there is a serious problem which the children's commissioner has identified that the current policy is having the effect of making what should be a prosperous and a wealthy economy, one that is neither prosperous nor fair for larger families, particularly those who grew up on that statistic. >> that sounds incredible. that statistic you just cited. so over 50% of children in larger families will be living in poverty by when ? poverty by when? >> by 2028. is the resolution foundation data point. >> can that be true? >> can that be true? >> let's do that. to mark littlewood . littlewood. >> i'd be a little sceptical about these poverty measures, especially relative poverty, which is usually how you're doing compared to the average.

so if people on the average income suddenly get a lot richer and those just behind average income get a bit richer, suddenly actually people are ficher suddenly actually people are richer but have fallen into poverty because it's typically measured a proportion of the measured as a proportion of the average . absolutely average income. absolutely ludicrous way of measuring it. i would right ? i ludicrous way of measuring it. i would right? i mean, i would say this right? i mean, i don't want to come across as a complete curmudgeon, but you know, kids is expensive, know, having kids is expensive, very . i've, i've seen very expensive. i've, i've seen sort of, you know, could cost hundreds of thousands of pounds to bring up a kid over the course of their sort of nought to 18. and beyond that, if you're wanting to help them onto the property ladder. so my basic view you can't afford to view is if you can't afford to have a third, fourth, fifth, sixth or seventh child, don't have them. and it doesn't seem to me to be the fault of the government or the welfare state that larger families might be struggling. it a choice , a struggling. it is a choice, a personal choice. whether you choose to have kids look on the margins. i'd probably accept if you have triplets as a surprise, you have triplets as a surprise, you should probably qualify for,

you should probably qualify for, you know , child benefit for you know, child benefit for three kids. but by and large, the state isn't there to pay for people's lifestyle choices . and people's lifestyle choices. and this is a lifestyle choice and a family choice made by individuals. >> let's just focus on this for a second, because no one's forcing people to have more children than they would want to. and wasn't this brought in initially to stop the perception that some people would have children simply in order to get more benefits ? more benefits? >> of course, the opposite is also a risk, which is if you make it economically disadvantageous to have children, people may have fewer of them. and let's be really clear, the effect of that, you know, the uk is seeing declining birth rates at the moment. the uk population is growing, but it's growing because of it's growing only because of economic migration. absent that, at current demographic rate, at the current demographic rate, the uk population will start shrinking on a native birth basis. so you might say you want the population to shrink, but you don't have a growing economy with a shrinking population . the with a shrinking population. the other it's not just the

other thing is it's not just the parents children who we parents of these children who we need to think about, it's the kids themselves. so third kids themselves. so the third child, child in a child, the fourth child in a family, or not you might family, whether or not you might have the decisions in have made the same decisions in their or not, the children their shoes or not, the children are the ones suffer as are the ones who suffer as a result of their parents impoverishment or their parents lack of capital. so the issue here is it's a welfare issue . here is it's a welfare issue. it's a humanitarian issue. and it's also bluntly , an economic it's also bluntly, an economic issue. if we don't ensure that britain is a country where people want to have larger families, we're not talking about seven kids, we're talking about seven kids, we're talking about 2.4 of your it's not 2.4 today. at the current rate, we'll start shrinking. greg isn't there a difference, though, economically speaking , though, economically speaking, behind a family that chooses to have more children? >> because they can afford to, and a family that will have more children that will be a greater net drain on public spending, on economic resources than they would be. on the one hand, one of these families is a net positive for the uk economy . on positive for the uk economy. on the other hand, that's taking

resources . fesoui'ces. >> resources. >> but i mean, children in time will be productive members of society and pay tax. so demographic issues like this take 20, 30, 40, 50 years to play take 20, 30, 40, 50 years to play through, you know, ask china about the effect of its one child policy, which, having pushed so hard to discourage second children in families, china now faces its own demographic time bomb as its population faces the prospect of shrinking. so to the uk, if we don't make sure that there is on the margin a productive environment and a fair environment and a fair environment for families who choose to have more children to bring. >> mark because has the context changed for this question? because the issue of people not having enough children to sustain our economy and sustain our society is a huge one. and now people who may have been free market conservatives and have an eye on a small state and don't want people to be living off welfare for their entire lives, are sort of shifting in

their view on this and thinking , their view on this and thinking, actually, we need people to have more children. and if the financial situation of families is one of the reasons that's preventing people from having more, then we need to do something it, even if it something about it, even if it means more welfare . means more welfare. >> i'd be very, very sceptical about state planning here. i mean, i don't want to compare anything the british government's doing to china, to china's horrific one child policy. but the idea there should be a central planner who's worked out that we're going to bring in a welfare system such that the average woman exactly 2.4 children, woman has exactly 2.4 children, or rather, that's the aggregate i think is a very, very dangerous approach to central planning. own planning. left to their own devices and their own responsibilities , people tend to responsibilities, people tend to make the smartest decisions and those in aggregate start to add up and produce the best possible aggregate outcome. and i would say this about child benefit . i say this about child benefit. i mean, mark, we're not though £1,000 a year. this is a very small amount of the overall cost of a kid , but we're of bringing up a kid, but we're not replacing ourselves, so

we're making the right we're not making the right decision i emily, you decision. i mean, emily, you might know what the exact optimal population of the united kingdom is. i'm afraid i don't, and i don't believe a government knows that the exact optimal population of the united kingdom. and there are, as we've already heard, otherwise , the already heard, otherwise, the population changes, other than just, birth, you know, people enter the country, people exit the country. and i think left to their own devices, you tend to get the best possible outcome rather a central planner in rather than a central planner in whitehall trying to work out exactly how people will respond to to what's a fairly to respond to what's a fairly minor incentive. >> started the with >> we started the debate with you. going finish with you. we're going to finish with greg marsh. greg perhaps we do need more children to encourage people to have more children, but is the answer always giving tax payer cash to them is the answer always benefits ? might it answer always benefits? might it not be making housing more affordable by reforming the planning system? might it not be deregulating the childcare

sector? so it's much cheaper to have childcare for your children? couldn't there be other ways in which we boost this without costing the state? >> well, in the short term, a lot of those moves would also cost the state, it doesn't necessarily mean that's not an investment well made, and i think mark's rather, squirrelling the argument by saying that, you know, either it's being centrally planned or sort of radical libertarianism. the is that tax does the reality is that tax does have a marginal effect on people's life decisions, and it certainly has a marginal effect on people's prosperity, both in the short and the long term. but i think the most compelling argument for me this debate argument for me in this debate is a long term demographic is not a long term demographic argument. it's current argument. it's that the current policy is actively distorted. and it was introduced, i think, largely for political optical reasons. but the reality is what it's doing is it is distorting the economics for families . it's the economics for families. it's doing so in an arbitrary way. and the consequence of that is, let's be clear, it's children who suffer, particularly

children of larger families. however you measure poverty, absolute poverty levels have also risen. they're now risen at the highest rate for 30 years. so we're not just talking about relative poverty, we're talking about absolute poverty rates rising, and it's children who suffer. and if you think that the state has no role to play in alleviating that suffering , alleviating that suffering, that's fair enough. but that's not my view. my view is it's about time that corrected about time that we corrected this injustice. about time that we corrected this injusthere you go. thank >> well, there you go. thank you very that a very very much. that was a very interesting debate, actually. greg littlewood , greg marsh and mark littlewood, thank you your time. oh, thank you for your time. oh, i remember the debate around remember all the debate around around the cap on benefits when it was brought in. and yes, it was that people were thinking that were having more that people were having more children just so that they could live benefits. live off more benefits. >> never have incentive >> you'd never have an incentive to bring life into this to sort of bring life into this world just advantage world to just advantage yourself. that seems yourself. right? that seems like a odd incentive to have, a very odd incentive to have, especially if that's just going to of a cash cow. but to be sort of a cash cow. but there's a legitimate debate in terms of how much that was actually happening and how much terms of how much that was acwas.y happening and how much it was. >> let us know what you think.

at lots of views are at home, lots of views are coming in. might get to some coming in. we might get to some of later. but of those a little bit later. but coming investigation is coming up, an investigation is to on why two to be opened on why two survivors attacks on survivors of hamas attacks on the 7th of october were allegedly singled by the uk allegedly singled out by the uk border force at manchester airport. was airport. they claim it was anti—semitism. that's after the headunes anti—semitism. that's after the headlines with tatiana . headlines with tatiana. >> emily. thank you. the top stories this hour a major search and rescue operation is underway in the us city of baltimore after a bridge collapsed early this morning, a cargo vessel crashed into the francis scott key bridge at around 130 local time. we now know that the ship's crew had notified authorities of what's been described as a power issue on board before the collision . we board before the collision. we can take you live now to baltimore, where you can see the aftermath of that tragedy. this morning, multiple people were on the one and a half mile long bndge the one and a half mile long bridge at the time. two people were recovered from the water. one is now in a serious

condition. reports suggest six people unaccounted people are still unaccounted for. the maryland governor says it appears to have been a tragic accident, and our response teams are doing everything in our power to rescue and recover the victims of this collapse. >> literally as we speak, people who, as we speak are out. there are divers , our air assets, are divers, our air assets, people who right now are working to save lives and are doing it because the state asked . because the state asked. >> the health watchdog has flagged what it calls ongoing concerns at the nhs trust, which treated the man who killed barnaby webber. grace o'malley kumar and school caretaker ian coates. valdo calocane received treatment at the nottinghamshire trust in its review. the care quality commission says steps must be taken to improve processes and protect the public from the risk of harm . and gb from the risk of harm. and gb news can exclusively reveal the number of small boats illegally

crossing the english channel so far this year is now 25% higher than at the same time last year. another five small boats crossed the channel this morning with almost 300 people on board. the latest arrivals take the total number of migrants who have made the illegal journey so far this year to just under 4600. for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gbnews.com/alerts

i >> -- >> good afternoon. britain. it's 2:38, and we're going to show you some live pictures. now of baltimore, where the search and rescue operation is still underway around the collapse of key bridge, an enormously significant bridge spanning the entrance to that harbour. now,

we know that there are six unaccounted for individuals. two people rescued, one in hospital. we were hearing from the governor of maryland , wes moore, governor of maryland, wes moore, a little bit earlier, saying that the exclusive focus of the operation right now is on search and rescue. >> yes. and at the moment, they're saying that they don't believe this incident is terror related, although it's very clear there will be an investigation into exactly what happened. investigation into exactly what happened . but as tom said, happened. but as tom said, search and rescue comes first. we also heard from the senator, christopher van hollen. we also heard from the fbi. we also heard from the fbi. we also heard from the coast guard, and it was very interesting indeed to see the response. this is an absolutely huge incident. there was an outpouring of support from the for the emergency services , for getting there so services, for getting there so quickly and helping rescue quickly and helping to rescue those that they have so far, but we await to see how this investigation develops to find out what exactly happened . why

out what exactly happened. why did this ship steer into this bndge did this ship steer into this bridge at that moment? >> but as the governor said , >> but as the governor said, maryland tough, baltimore strong , although perhaps not so much with the bridges , let's perhaps with the bridges, let's perhaps return to this in in some moments when we get more information, we'll bring it to you as it happens, in other news, a little bit closer to home, the home office is opening an investigation into why two survivors of hamas attacks on the 7th of october were allegedly singled out by the uk border force at manchester airport. >> yes, the jets will need to conduct. >> okay, nobody's saying that nobody has said that once. so not the attitude of we've made the decision and you're coming in. so just let us do the checks we need to do and keep quiet. look at me. okay. you clear with that ? okay, good. we're the that? okay, good. we're the bosses, not all right ? right. >> jewish representative council for the greater manchester area says that two israeli nationals

faced aggressive questioning , faced aggressive questioning, meaning they were visiting the country to share their experiences of being at the nova music festival, where more than 360 partygoers were shot . 360 partygoers were shot. >> well, joining us now is political commentator emma webb . political commentator emma webb. emma, thank you very much for joining us. from what we've heard about this incident at manchester airport, what conclusions can we draw? >> well, firstly, i think this is an absolute disgrace. if you remember, it's not that long since james cleverly announced that they were launching a probe because , a six month old babies because, a six month old babies passport had been sent to the home, not passport. sorry. birth certificate had been sent to the home office, and had been returned to the parents. ripped with the father's place of birth scribbled out, which was israel . scribbled out, which was israel. >> so we obviously have a serious, serious problem in this country, from what we can see from that footage and from the witness accounts from those two

israeli citizens, is just absolutely disgusting. and firstly , i think there are firstly, i think there are multiple things to say, as we saw in that clip, just there, i think that this, this border force official is behaving unprofessionally , it's just unprofessionally, it's just frankly rude to speak to them in that way. and he seems extremely aggressive , and also that these aggressive, and also that these two gentlemen were coming over to speak about their experiences, not only as as survivors of what happened on october the 7th, but also as heroes because they were involved in a six hour gunfight and saved a number of people that day , and they they were that day, and they they were coming over post purim to speak to the jewish community in manchester. it's absolutely unacceptable that they would be spoken to in this way, and i think that james cleverly is absolutely right to launch an investigation into this . investigation into this. >> i suppose the investigation is important aspect here, is the important aspect here, because to some extent , yes. if because to some extent, yes. if the if the accounts that is in

that letter is true, i think everyone would be would be absolutely horrified , but from absolutely horrified, but from what we've seen in terms of the video , i it's not that unusual video, i it's not that unusual for a border force agent to be fairly curt with those who are coming in. it's not that unusual for people to be stopped, and indeed even questioned about why they're coming in to any country. i know it's probably happened to many people. it's i think it's happened to me visiting the united states. you know, this is something that does happen in this might not necessarily be in and of itself , anti—semitic. >> well, you know me, tom. i'm very in favour of our border force officials being extremely tough . and i would want for them tough. and i would want for them tough. and i would want for them to have due diligence in, making sure that people who are not supposed to be in the country , supposed to be in the country, don't get in. and unfortunately, it seems that the border force aren't particularly good at doing that those who doing that with those who actually be but actually shouldn't be here, but but i think in this instance, if

it true as these witnesses it is true as these witnesses have said, these two gentlemen say , just after they had say that, just after they had explained that they were victims of what happened on october the 7th, one of these border force officials, i don't know if it was the one in that video there apparently said to them that they wanted to ensure that they didn't do here what they were doing in gaza, that has already been raised in the house of commons, because that is frankly unacceptable. and i and i, i accept and i actually do believe that the border force should be very tough and very authoritative. but i don't think there is any excuse for what i think in that video appears to be complete. a complete lack of professionalism , yes. professionalism, yes. >> i mean, some have argued that, these are two young men coming from israel, which is, of course, involved in a conflict , course, involved in a conflict, not foreign conflict. this might send some, you know, some alarm

bells for the border force. there may have been a little bit of strong words, and it sort of escalated somewhat. or do you think this is likely to be a cut and dry case of discrimination ? and dry case of discrimination? >> well, we'll know from the investigation, but i think it wouldn't have been particularly difficult for them find out difficult for them to find out why were coming here, why these two were coming here, because they were coming explicitly speak at an event, explicitly to speak at an event, and seems they were and it seems that they were unlawfully detained for number unlawfully detained for a number of the basis of hours simply on the basis that were israeli citizens. that they were israeli citizens. and we as and given what we saw, as i described already with the incident in the home office, with the, birth certificate of a of a child warrants a very serious investigation. i think it's concerning because it seems that they were mistreated just simply on the basis that firstly , they are israeli and secondly, that they, are and were spoken to in that way. and it seems in a pretty angry way, because they were victims of what happened on october the 7th, and yes, of course, they are coming from a

place where there is conflict, but all you have to do is look at the border force's attitude towards people who, frankly, probably shouldn't be here, shouldn't be allowed to come in, this seems to be a clear cut case to me of discrimination. but of course , then hopefully but of course, then hopefully the investigation will be very thorough , and i hope and thorough, and i hope and i haven't seen what the whether there have been any results of that probe into the israeli of the child. >> just about to ask emma, have we heard an update on the home office investigation into that passport? that was defaced? >> well, i had a quick look just before coming on to talk to you. i couldn't find anything, so i don't know whether or not they have had results from that yet, but i hope they will be but i hope that they will be both robust and transparent about the message both robust and transparent aborsends the message both robust and transparent aborsends to the message both robust and transparent aborsends to israeli :he message both robust and transparent aborsends to israeli citizens;age this sends to israeli citizens is, firstly, that you're not welcome the uk, that those welcome in the uk, that those who in uniform representing who are in uniform representing this country will behave in appropriate towards you. and they're seeing this in addition to the weekend after weekend

sites of anti—semitism on british streets. and it's completely unacceptable. well emma webb, thank you very much for your analysis. >> there . it certainly will be >> there. it certainly will be an interesting case to follow. and we really do hope that that that report and that investigation can be done swiftly. >> yes. >> yes. >> well , british universities, >> well, british universities, they may have to end relationships with foreign countries altogether if it's seen to undermine free speech, undermine free speech. the government's free speech tsar has advised that which countries might we be looking at and which universities? we'll find out more after the

break. >> good afternoon. britain. it's ten minutes to three. and now british universities. they're being, perhaps undermined by relationships with foreign countries undermining free speech. that's the fear . and speech. that's the fear. and that's why the government's free

speech tsar has advised that there should be a change. >> yes, universities could be told to terminate or rewrite their arrangements with any foreign country. this could be things like admitting international students on scholarships . if the scholarships. if the relationship with a certain country prevents legitimate debate. so what exactly are they getting at? here? are relationships with foreign countries actually undermining freedom of speech in our universities? joining us now is university lecturer in philosophy of religion at the university of cambridge, james or james, thank you very university of cambridge, james orjames, thank you very much or james, thank you very much for joining us. how serious is forjoining us. how serious is these is this issue? are are our relationships with foreign countries actually undermining free speech on a day to day bafisin free speech on a day to day basis in our universities ? basis in our universities? >> well, it's very good to be with you. >> it's difficult to form a kind of clear conclusion because as we know, universities are much, much more reliant on international fees than they used to be. >> and there are lots of different countries that are a

concern. i mean, the first thing to say is that universities rely heavily on international students for , to in order to students for, to in order to ensure that they've got intellectually flourishing cultures. i mean, we have four of the top ten universities in the world. i think we've got 7 or 8 in the top 40. so we are these are international institutions, and we do want to be attracting the brightest and best from overseas. >> but we are seeing some sort of troubling developments, particularly at the level of admissions criteria. >> we're seeing quite stark and frankly, scandalous disparities in the admissions criteria for domestic students as against foreign students in some universities . and so part of the universities. and so part of the problem is that the financial incentive structures are such that universities risks becoming more and more dependent upon foreign regimes , because they're foreign regimes, because they're simply bringing in an awful lot more money, fees, of course, this, this, all of this discussion, we say countries, countries, countries, frankly , countries, countries, frankly, mainly we're really looking at one country, aren't we?

>> china ? >> china? >> china? >> well, china is certainly focus. >> i mean, nearly1 focus. >> i mean, nearly 1 in 3 undergraduate students are from overseas at russell group. universities are were from china. in 2021, 60% of overseas postgraduates come from china , postgraduates come from china, we know from the fbi and the five eyes security chiefs that, china is a master at intellectual property theft, and it presents a serious threat to innovation right across the world, whether it's quantum technology, robotics, biotechnology and artificial intelligence. and of course, there's a whole range of human rights issue. concerns over taiwan, tibet , uyghur rights issue. concerns over taiwan, tibet, uyghur muslims, lockdown, tyranny , sabre lockdown, tyranny, sabre rattling in the south china sea. i mean, all of these are issues about which, you know, researchers and academics should be free to teach and question and probe and prod. and, of course, you know, in universities where there is a

heavily heavy commercial reliance on regimes like china, there are obvious , disincentives there are obvious, disincentives to, ensuring that academics and students are free to speak their mind on those issues. >> james, we'd absolutely love to speak to you again on this. we're going to have to leave it there because we're coming up to there because we're coming up to the end of the show, but i hope we can speak to you again, because i want to find out a little bit more about this issue and are and how how concerned we are should be. you should actually be. thank you very orr, who is a very much, james orr, who is a university in university lecturer in philosophy of religion at the university of cambridge. >> from us >> well, that's it from us today. coming up next, it's today. but coming up next, it's martin what martin daubney and martin. what have us cracking martin daubney and martin. what have fellas, us cracking martin daubney and martin. what have fellas, thanks cracking martin daubney and martin. what have fellas, thanks forcking martin daubney and martin. what have fellas, thanks for handing show fellas, thanks for handing over me. over to me. >> course we'll have the >> of course we'll have all the latest on baltimore bridge latest on the baltimore bridge disaster. are we disaster. and also, are we seeing batley grammar school seeing a batley grammar school breakthrough? we've got some fantastic exclusive news that fantastic exclusive news on that . for your latest . but first time for your latest weather . weather forecast. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb

news. >> hi there and welcome to the latest gb news forecast from the met office. a soggy night to come as rain moves north, falling as snow over scotland's hills and staying cold in the far north. but milder air is coming in to the south and following the main area of rain, which is associated with this feature an occluded front moving north. we've got an area of showers pushing in, so a mixed bag for most of us over the next 24 hours, but the wettest parts will be northern ireland, where there's warning, as well there's a rain warning, as well as northern england into the midlands, wales the south midlands, wales and the south east. evening before. east. during the evening before. dufing east. during the evening before. during early hours that rain during the early hours that rain pushes scotland , pushes into much of scotland, falling as snow above 2 or 300m, settling above 3 or 400m. a cold night to come for scotland, then , but further south it's 5 or 6 celsius by dawn, albeit with another active band of rain moving through southwest england into wales, northern ireland, some heavy bursts and some gusty winds that . the winds associated with that. the first band of rain pushes

through northern scotland , through northern scotland, continuing to fall as snow over the although air the hills, although milder air is mixing with that so the snow could highest peaks and could find the highest peaks and it's wet and windy, it's going to be wet and windy, increasingly for the far increasingly so for the far north scotland, feeling north of scotland, feeling cold here. sunny here. elsewhere, a mix of sunny spells lively showers, hail spells and lively showers, hail and thunder here and there as well, before further bands of rain move north on thursday. one area moving across northern england into northern ireland dunng england into northern ireland during the morning. another zone of rain and showers moving into the southwest by the afternoon. the weekend, though, looks brighter with a mix of sunny spells and heavy showers . spells and heavy showers. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers. sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> a very good afternoon to you.

indeed. it's 3 pm. and welcome to the martin daubney show on gb news. broadcasting live from the heart of westminster. all across the uk. on today's show, the baltimore bridge collapsed . six baltimore bridge collapsed. six people are still missing and eight have been rescued. now we'll have regular updates on this dramatic story throughout the show, and there's been a huge development in the case of the former batley grammar school teacher , who is still in hiding teacher, who is still in hiding today. the prime minister his official spokesman, has said his treatment has been unacceptable. we'll have a full update on this dramatic and fantastic breakthrough . and after the breakthrough. and after the princess of wales announced that she's got cancer , there's been she's got cancer, there's been a huge surge in people visiting websites and giving people advice on the illness , a advice on the illness, a positive spin on that story. that's all coming up in your next hour . welcome to the show.

next hour. welcome to the show. it's always an absolute