>> well . >> well. >> well. >> good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey show. it's fair to say it's been a tumultuous week across the country amid golden moments at the olympics. there's been mass unrest at home. is this the start or indeed the middle of a summer of discontent? i'm going to be speaking to the reform uk mp rupert lowe for his take on the southport riots. riots everywhere in fact, and why the government is keen to lay the

blame on the far right. i'll also be speaking to lord clive soley, former labour mp and probation officer. does he think that the government has handled the situation well? robert jenrick the bookies favourite to cunch jenrick the bookies favourite to clinch the tory leadership race, will be here in the studio to outline why he's the right person to take on the big job in opposition. he'll also be commenting on the unrest we've witnessed in recent days and lord walney, the government adviser on political violence and disruption, will be for here his perspective on this week's events and i'll be speaking to sir david davis, the former brexit secretary, who will be here to share his view on who he thinks should take over as tory leader. the other shows might not be on, but we are here to give you 90 minutes of punchy politics this morning, so do not even think of going anywhere . even think of going anywhere. james price joins me now. former senior government special adviser to discuss the morning's papen adviser to discuss the morning's paper. james, lovely to see you

on this nearly sunny sunday. thank you for having me . anarchy thank you for having me. anarchy in the uk is the sun on sunday's page. in the uk is the sun on sunday's page . one headline, i mean, it's page. one headline, i mean, it's looking dicey, and i suppose i'm quite surprised that this is all going on. cobra hasn't been called yet. we've got parliament in recess . called yet. we've got parliament in recess. mps called yet. we've got parliament in recess . mps therefore on in recess. mps therefore on their holidays. i think even talk that the prime minister is going to be on his holidays this week. >> yeah, that doesn't seem like a very sensible thing. i understand there's been a gruelling election campaign. i understand the need for politicians to have private lives, to keep family lives and that that helps them make good decisions and stay in touch with the world from the people i've advised. and you've got to take those things on board as well. but to, to come into this kind of very, very dangerous thing that could get a lot worse with some of these riots going on. the fact that the prime minister came out, gave a press conference that, as far as i can see, made matters much, much worse, blaming one side of things and not another, inflaming things, calling people thugs, upsetting a vast number of people as well. >> what could he have done differently though, james? i

mean, i'm bearing in mind you're coming from a position because you used to advise tory ministers. so what could the prime minister have done a bit differently? >> so it's not that old joke, isn't it? someone stops and asks for directions and the person says, well, if i were you, i wouldn't start from here. yes, but when? when he went out and paid respects at the sight of this just awful attack, something i mean, these three girls, i haven't been able to begun processing. how horrible this is. >> you see their little beautiful faces on the front of the papers. it's just impossible to process. heartbreaking. >> and so he goes out there along with, i think the home secretary was there as well, and other local representatives, and laid some flowers down and nodded his head, and he got heckled, people shouting, how many more kids are going to die, and some other things like that. and he just ignored it and wandered off. i think that was probably the wrong thing to do. it makes it look like he's just there for a photo op, especially when you can hear these people doing it. if instead he had certainly gone to those people, didn't argue with them, he could have just let them vent, let these local people. there was a woman screaming that she knew one of these kids and that she used to babysit her, and she was terrified. and all these things he did just said, look, i can't begin to know your pain on this.

i've only been in this job five minutes, but trust me, i'm going to make things better. i'm going to make things better. i'm going to make things better. i'm going to make these streets safe again. i'm going to fix these things. i'm a conservative, but that would have made him go down as a pretty great prime minister if he had managed to do that. look, there is a complete disconnect, i think, and there are kind of different issues being muddled up here. >> we've got this attack on this taylor swift dance class in southport. we can't say much about the suspect because he's now been charged. there was misinformation which then to led riots there, which were completely unhelpful because you got people pelting rocks at the very police that are there with the victims families trying to help them through this abject tragedy. that is odd. there's obviously no justification whatsoever for people torching buildings in sunderland or going on the rampage in any of these places, aldershot, liverpool, wherever. right. so we condemn that. but you aren't happy about the labelling of everybody involved in this unrest as far, right. >> yeah, i think it's an unhelpful term. i think there's some talk about proscribing the engush some talk about proscribing the english defence league, which is

i actually understand it hasn't really been properly active as an organising organisation for some years now . and what does some years now. and what does far right mean? i think that we need to have some proper decent explanations as to what these things are. is there intelligence that there have been people organising specifically to go and cause violence and whip things up? if so, we should know about that. but i think the root problem here is that it's very difficult to have the kinds of conversations about our society, about culture in britain today that we're going to need to have if we're going to fix these things. it's much easier to label these idiot knuckledraggers attacking police and setting fire to things. call them all a name , move on and them all a name, move on and that's it. and we can label the bogeymen and don't worry about the broiling social tensions that are actually causing this under the surface. >> but then the adverse approach to that is the nigel farage approach. let's record some videos. let's at times share some of the misinformation . he's some of the misinformation. he's then being accused. i mean, peter hitchens has written in the mail on sunday and lots on the mail on sunday and lots on the left have obviously said this. oh, you're the one stoking tensions. this is partly your fault. i mean, that seems to me to be an overreach and unfair. has he handled himself well in

the last week? >> no, i don't i don't think so. i mean, that peter hitchens piece you mentioned in the mail on sunday is excoriating. it's really it really goes for the jugular on on nigel farage. i just think when you do these things, you hold yourself a hostage to fortune by by speculating and by suggesting and hinting and wink wink, nudge, nudge when certain bits of it get disproven, it happens on both sides, by the way, and we can do both sides isms. the guys from hope not hate who's attacked everybody for fanning the flames of this was then talking about, oh, i hear reports that there was an acid attack happening in middlesbrough, which then the police said didn't happen ehhen police said didn't happen either. so both sides can do this. and why? because it makes you look stupid. and instead, you look stupid. and instead, you know, there are some people who do very well in these sorts of short form videos and what we needis of short form videos and what we need is people to sit down and have long, boring press conferences. that explains what's going on. and long, bonng what's going on. and long, boring explanations of why it is that people feel so disenfranchised just after a general election in so many different ways. and there are multiple bits of this. there's bits of religion involved, there's bits of immigration, there's bits of immigration, there's bits of immigration, there's bits about assimilation ,

there's bits about assimilation, about general kinds of culture, about general kinds of culture, about areas that have been left behind. you see where a lot of these attacks have been happening. >> that's an irony here, james, though, because the place where most people have these sorts of open debates from a left and right perspective is, funnily enough, on somewhere like gb news and yet we're castigated because apparently we're one sided, and yet i haven't ever had a debate about this where we haven't had contrary views, criticism of farage, support of farage. so there's an irony there. let's move on from our channel to the bbc not covered itself in glory. we've got this extraordinary revelation from tim davie that they knew that huw edwards was under suspicion andindeed huw edwards was under suspicion and indeed had been arrested for serious offences, and they even know the category of the indecent images , which is indecent images, which is category a, the worst. i'm not actually going to say what those images feature, because it's sunday morning and people are having their breakfast, but category a is the most serious and yet still they decide that he should get a pay rise. i mean, i think legally you have to suspend somebody pending an investigation on full pay, but the pay rise has tim davie now got questions to answer. also

reports that edwards should be stripped of his baftas. >> it's there's two different bits of it the bafta stripping and the fact that the beavers apparently going back through its archives and deleting him from everything. now, you know, if the guy popped up on on doctor who episodes and things like that, that's going to get cut out. what about services? you know, when he was reporting on, i don't know, william and kate's wedding, those sorts of things. it feels slightly dystopian that those things go away because by hiding these people away, we don't get rid of the problems that were caused. that's not a healthy way to deal with these things. in the same way that, you know, you can't just tear down statues that you don't like, you should be applying context to it. i think on the issue of the bbc, the real problem with it, huw edwards was such a well—known face, a well—known voice, that that the bbc feels like it's been covering up something. and this fear of a cover up again , this fear of a cover up again, protecting him, protecting things like protect another employee who wasn't on a fat six figure salary and fronting up major news events . and the same major news events. and the same thing with the rumours around people like jimmy savile being protected and whatever the rights and wrongs and truths of

it in the world of social media now, as we've just said, that these sorts of misinformation can fly around it gives fuel to the fire of people who think these things are being covered up and going on. and this is the real danger that you get now that people stop trusting the bbc. and we know that he does things wrong anyway, davey gave that sort of interview in a bid to sort of try and dampen everything down a bit like the keir starmer situation, actually, and then he's like raised more questions than he's answered. >> well, if you knew that they were serious category a images, what on earth were you thinking anyway. that one will run and run because i think there'll be demands for, for at least that money to be paid back to the bbc. questions about edwards 300 grand a year pension as well. nice work. if you license fees, isn't there, isn't it just. let's talk about the tory leadership latest because obviously you used to advise government ministers and so you're quite well entrenched with the conservative scene, we've had priti patel talking about parliament being recalled. we've got joint op eds in the telegraph this morning. we've got, is francis maude who's supporting kemi badenoch. and then we've got gareth davies

supporting jenrick. it's feeling to me. but it's very early days andifs to me. but it's very early days and it's a marathon, not a sprint. that jenrick, who's coming in the studio shortly to talk to us but also badenoch are the two front runners in this but are we going to end up with like a with two righties fighting it off? that would be extraordinary, james, for the membership to decide between two righties rather than typical kind of sunak and truss centrist and righty offering that they normally get in a leadership. >> yeah. well hopefully the fact that there's going to be a long, battle through all of this, through the summer into the autumn, passed the conservative party conference in october. we'll see a lot of these things and we can tease out, well, what does righty mean? what does right wing mean? >> does it has moved? is it centre ground or common ground. >> well, it's exactly the right kind of questions. we should be asking these sorts of people. and i think long contests will tease out these guys who have got really sensible, deep thoughts about whether it's best policy, but also philosophy. you go through lots of different leaders. the party has to lurch between. is it a kind of buccaneering, free market, reaganite style that it was under truss? was it very

sensible, slightly tech bro, but not actually very effective as it was under sunak? was it kind of caring conservatism under theresa may? was it whatever different position boris johnson woke up thinking he felt ? or was woke up thinking he felt? or was it the kind of hug a hoodie compassionate but fiscally conservative conservatism of david cameron? and this is this is very difficult demonstrating why i mean, they talk about the conservatives and being a broad church in terms of the mps that belong to the party. >> but you've just succinctly outlined the different machinations of toryism that have kind of landed them in this mess, don't you think? >> yeah, i think that's true. i think you you say a broad church is one thing. i think richard dawkins said, once upon a time, you can be so open minded that your brain falls out and you can't necessarily have a party that some people on one wing of it don't know what a woman is, and the other side wants to pull you out of the echr and don't care and lock everybody. and this is, this is too broad. so it's good that we can have these kinds of things. but you made the point there. it's not about the point there. it's not about the centre ground because most people will hold very widely different views. they'll want to have lots more funding for the nhs, and they'll want

potentially capital punishment for paedophiles, for example. right. and they'll be considered a sort of centrist because they've got one very left, one very right opinion. what does this do? i think you're right, though, when it comes down to these two frontrunners, i think kemi badenoch and robert jenrick, they both got the ability to say that they're not. so right on some issues, and to throw red meat where it is and surely the person who lands the leadership just has to take a position and stick to it. >> okay, if you want to recreate the glory of thatcher, it is. i know what i stand for. my ideology is clear. if you don't like it bad luck. and i say that not just to my party, but also my country. some of what you i say you'll agree with, some you disagree with. but this is my position. what's happened is all of the prevarication that we've witnessed over recent years . witnessed over recent years. >> yeah, absolutely. right. when mrs. thatcher first got in, she threw down a copy of friedrich august von hayek's the constitution of liberty down onto the cabinet table. and she said, this is what we believe. now, i've read that book. so some of your viewers don't have to. it's pretty dense going, but it's fantastic. and it gave her that kind of guiding principle all the way through her premiership. so when an issue

comes along, you've got ideological, philosophical first principles that you can go to the question i would ask all of these people is, what one book would you throw down onto the cabinet table and say, this is what we believe. >> maybe i need to read this book over summer, as we are hoping to have all of the different leadership candidates on this show. james price, starting with robert jenrick, who will be up well in half an hours who will be up well in half an hour's time. so stay tuned for that. james price, thank you so much for joining that. james price, thank you so much forjoining me this much for joining me this morning. lots to get through in the papers. we missed a couple of stories just because anarchy has obviously dominated. and we'll be discussing that with rupert lowe, who's reform uk's mp for great yarmouth. he's going to be joining us. interestingly, he's given his mp salary away to charity and i'm going to ask him whether other reform mps or indeed mps in general should be doing the same, not least if they're independently quite wealthy. so stay tuned for that. and as i say, we've got robert jenrick coming into the studio too. don't go anywhere

welcome back to gb news. you're watching the camilla tominey show. i'm delighted to be joined now by rupert lowe, reform uk's mp for great yarmouth. lovely to see you, mr lowe. thank you for sparing the time on a sunday morning. priti patel has suggested that parliament be recalled over this unrest that we're witnessing across the streets of britain. what do you think about that? i mean, we've got nobody from the government on the round today on my show, keir starmer is apparently going on holiday this week. i know you've had quite a tough few weeks because you've been fighting an election campaign. and congratulations on your election, but don't we need our elected representatives now here, back in parliament, deaung here, back in parliament, dealing with what seems to be a summer of discontent? >> well, i think it's a very fair question, camilla. and i do think that starmer's misreading the room. i think a lot of this,

sort of accusation of it being a far right , sort of accusation of it being a far right, sort of issue is wrong . this is an issue that wrong. this is an issue that originates with tony blair, you know, he and his, as i call them, the four horsemen of the apocalypse. mandelson, campbell and brown, they basically have undermined the british constitution. they effectively have laid heffalump traps like the will. the echr is embedded within the human rights act, the equalities act, and effectively, what they did was open the floodgates to effectively divorcing the relationship between the directly elected mps and the people. and what you've now got is loads of quangos, which have been disintermediated between us, the elected mps, and we are the elected part of government effectively, you know, in, in 1688, one of the greatest moments of british history. we embedded all this in, in the glorious revolution and the declaration of rights.

so this has all been undermined by blair. you've got to look at the root causes of what's causing this. and i put out a tweet this morning. obviously, we want peaceful demonstrations . we want peaceful demonstrations. we don't want people to be violent. but the police have got to police everybody equally and fairly and they've got to apply the same rules to every part of our society. so i think, i think this is a crisis of the elites making. it started with blair and it continued under the tories, under may, under boris, under under , you know, with an under under, you know, with an 80 seat majority singularly failed to deal with these issues that blair and his, his mob had put in place. so i think this is a systemic problem. and for starmer to deny that , camilla, starmer to deny that, camilla, he is going to make matters far worse. he's got to be honest. i did ask him a question at prime minister's questions and this is important. the other day i got a pmqs and he disagreed with my numbers because i said since 97, millions of illegal and legal

migrants have come into the country. and he said he disagreed with my numbers. well, i don't know what part of my numbers he disagrees with, but conservatively, 10 million and arguably 13 million people have come into the country since then and often they're not interned. >> but that has happened. i mean, i appreciate what you're saying about tony blair, sort of initially opening our borders and that we've had those numbers coming in, but they are here now. so what is the solution? because presumably, mr lowe, you're not suggesting that you send people home who have got settled status here? >> i didn't say that. camilla but what i am saying is that people who come here need to respect the fact that we are a christian country. we have our own laws, we have our own history. and at the end of the day, i'm afraid a lot of them are not integrating into our society. they don't like our society. they don't like our society. they don't like our society. they don't like what we stand for. and what we've got to do is if people are going to come here, they have to integrate with us. >> so how do you make them? >> so how do you make them? >> police have to police our

country fairly and equally. camilla. otherwise you are. we are heading a systemic crisis and starmer will not be prime minister for very long if that happens. >> but mr lowe, how do you make people do that? how do you make people do that? how do you make people integrate? well that is a problem that the post—war elite or the since 97 elite, as you call them? >> i don't call them elite. most of them don't know which way is up. but the fact of the matter is, camilla, that they have brought these people in in an untargeted way and it's built up a massive problem. and just look at, look at the sort of plumes of volcanic magma that keep bursting out, whether it's southport , whether it's southport, whether it's katharine birbalsingh, whether it's people stealing rolex watches and being let off, whether it's people who are let off because they can't speak english. no, we have to deal with this from the and it has to be dealt with fairly and correctly. and they have to remember the fact that people in this country are not racist. they're very fair minded, they are decent people. but when they get angry, camilla, they don't

stop being angry very quickly because it takes an awfully long time to get them fired. >> but but mr lowe, are you saying that the majority of migrants into this country don't integrate? because i think we've all got examples in our own lives of people . people lives of people. people assimilate very well into this country, this is why we are multicultural. we've got plenty of examples of that. so how are you saying people should integrate further? >> people ? >> people? >> people? >> some people integrate. well, camilla and our chairman is an example of that. you know, zia yusuf came here. he's contributed he's built up a business. but have you been to parts of bradford ? i used to be parts of bradford? i used to be chairman of a football club. i went to all these places. and. do you. are you telling me that's integrated in and accepts the christian? >> i'm asking you , but i'm >> i'm asking you, but i'm asking you in regulations . i'm asking you in regulations. i'm asking you in regulations. i'm asking you. >> i don't know, that's not what you're saying. >> but, mr low, i'm asking you for solutions . we can talk about for solutions. we can talk about why it's happened, how it's happened. we can blame previous

governmental, you know , leaders. governmental, you know, leaders. we can look at all of that. but i'm asking you , because kemi i'm asking you, because kemi badenoch has identified this idea that people aren't integrating. what would you do to make communities integrate with each other more? is there religious service to do the first thing to do? >> camilla, which is no sign of labour doing, is to stop legal and illegal immigration severely restricted because immigration is a good thing if it's targeted. and as i say, pre 97, britain knew who we were. we had a very strong economy. we had not much national debt because we'd had margaret thatcher. and at the end of the day, you know, we, we, we had migration that was manageable, 50,000, give or take each year. and it added to our economy, i guess, as a yusuf would have been an example of that. but what we're seeing now is we're seeing illegal migrants coming in by boat and we're seeing the equivalent of a city of bristol net migration with three quarters of a million people last year. that is a city the size of bristol each year.

thatis the size of bristol each year. that is not sustainable. all our pubuc that is not sustainable. all our public services are failing as a result of it. most of our problems emanate from immigration. camilla. and until people sit down, immigrants working for our public services as well. >> though, mr low aren't there, there's lots of immigrants working in the nhs. there's lots of immigrants working on frontline public services. so i appreciate what you're saying about the numbers we are losing. >> we are losing our entrepreneurs. we're losing our wealth creators. 9000 of them have left this year. they've gone. have left this year. they've gone . they're the people who gone. they're the people who take risk. they build businesses. they employ people. they take risk. they are contributors. and they are going. they can vote with their feet. that's what can't happen. they're going to italy. they're going to dubai. they're going to all all over the world. and why, why, why would you blame them? they're being taxed into oblivion. they're being regulated out of sight, you know. so give you an example of tony blair's legislation. the fsma, the financial services market act of 2000 that destroyed our capital markets

through the creation of regulators like the fca, the pra, originating with the fsa. i've written articles on it. it's destroyed london as a capital markets centre. that's happening throughout our country, and people need to start discussing the real causes of what's going on. >> we are discussing it. >> we are discussing it. >> but mr low, hang on a second. we are discussing it. we're literally discussing it on this show. but i still haven't heard an answer to you . people who are an answer to you. people who are here legally, first generation, second, third who you think aren't integrating adequately, what can be done ? what can be done? >> i didn't say, i didn't say integrate more . integrate more. >> i said some people are not integrating correctly in our country. >> how do we make them integrate more? >> how do we make them integrate more ? more? >> what we need to do, camilla, is those people who engineered this blair. and as you know, keir starmer himself has made money out of human rights law. that's what his job was. you know, he actually, i think was the barrister who fought for , the barrister who fought for, for effectively benefits for people who came into this

country both legally and illegally, which, which was a disastrous decision. but look, at the end of the day, he he's conflicted. he makes money. he made money out of human rights law, as did cherie blair. so at the end of the day, what we need is an honest debate. i don't have a golden bullet for years and years of the elite's mismanagement of our of our immigration policy. but we've got to have a frank and honest discussion about it. there isn't always a sort of one one line answer to these things. it's extremely complex, but what we can't go on doing is undermining the foundations of this great country. and not listening to the people who are now concerned about it, because they're right to be concerned. they've got every right to be concerned about what's happening to their country. >> okay. and i share that concern. >> i understand thank you very much indeed for speaking so in such a forthright manner. rupert lowe , thank you very much lowe, thank you very much indeed. that's the reform uk mp for great yarmouth. well, coming up next, i'm going to be speaking to the former labour mp, sir clive soley, and the tory leadership candidate, robert jenrick, who's got a lot

to say about the civic unrest we've witnessed too. i'll be back in two. don't go

welcome back. a lot more to come in the next hour , including an in the next hour, including an interview in the studio with the man who wants to be the next tory leader, robert jenrick, also a former immigration minister, to some of the responsibility for this week's unrest lie with him. but first, here's the news with ray addison gilded water . gilded water. >> thanks, camilla. good morning. it's exactly 10 am. our top stories this hour. police warn further violence is likely after dozens of people were arrested yesterday as protests took place across england and northern ireland. many towns and cities saw clashes between anti—immigration demonstrators and counter—protesters, with police

officers attacked and injured. it comes after three girls were killed in a knife attack at a dance club in southport on tuesday . 14 arrests were made in tuesday. 14 arrests were made in bristol, 11 in liverpool, 20 in lancashire and ten in staffordshire amid reports of looting and the setting of fires. speaking earlier on, gb news former scotland yard detective peter bleksley didn't mince his words. >> no matter what somebody's concerns are, if you pick up a brick or you pick up a bottle and you try it at a police officer, you are an idiot. end officer, you are an idiot. end of story . and unfortunately, we of story. and unfortunately, we face yet another evening of violence when more police officers were injured, something quite dramatic is going to have to happen here, because i see no sign at the moment of this unrest diminishing. in fact, i see it escalating and spreading . see it escalating and spreading. >> well, many more arrests have been promised in the coming days. as the prime minister said, the police have his full

support to take action against extremists . sir keir starmer support to take action against extremists. sir keir starmer is accusing protesters of attempting to , quote so hate by attempting to, quote so hate by intimidating communities. the home secretary, yvette cooper, said people involved in the clashes will pay the price and that, quote, criminal violence and disorder has no place on britain's streets. protests are expected to continue across the country today. reform uk mp rupert lowe told camilla tominey the pm needs to listen to the people. >> obviously we want peaceful demonstrations, we don't want people to be violent, but the police have got to police everybody equally and fairly and they've got to apply the same rules to every part of our society. so i think this is a systemic problem . and for systemic problem. and for starmer to deny that camilla, he is going to make matters far worse . woi'se. >> worse. >> the public is being warned not to approach a suspect after a man was fatally stabbed in nonh a man was fatally stabbed in north london. 33 year old kamaal williams, from the isle of dogs,

is believed to be connected to the murder of 53 year old derek neil thomas on the 30th of july, mr thomas died from a stab wound to the chest. the met police arrested a 30 year old woman on saturday on suspicion of assisting an offender. a 66 year old woman has died and three other people were seriously wounded after being stabbed by a palestinian attacker in the centre of israel. the stabbings took place during the morning rush hour in the city of holon, just outside of tel aviv. the other victims were two senior citizens and a young man. israeli authorities say the suspect was shot dead by police in the united states. florida is bracing itself as tropical storm debbie is expected to turn into a hurricane before hitting landfall. this evening. governor ron desantis has called up 3000 national guard and placed most of florida's cities and counties under emergency orders. evacuations are taking place in those counties most likely to be

affected. the national hurricane centre has described it as a life threatening situation, with winds expected to build to 70mph and two metre high waves, and former us president donald trump's son eric trump has accused the us media of biased reporting when it comes to vice president kamala harris. here he is speaking to gb news ben leo in aberdeenshire. >> yeah, it's funny, the media was mocking her. they spent the last four years mocking her and then all of a sudden, you know, biden's forced out and all of a sudden she walks on water. it's really an amazing thing. and but generally speaking, in our country, you know, people don't trust the media anymore. they don't, you know, for the last three and a half years, they've talked about how joe biden was a vibrant, articulate, well—spoken, healthy man. he walks out on stage at a debate and everybody realises that that's just not true. and they knew it wasn't true. but he walks on the stage and it just reinforces the fact that wasn't true. they really realise two things that kamala harris was lying to them and that the media was lying to them. >> those are the latest gb news

headunes >> those are the latest gb news headlines for now. i'm ray addison moore. in an hour's time for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> welcome back. we've got a fun packed hour ahead because in just a minute i'm going to be speaking to the former labour mp and party chairman and former probation officer, lord soley. what does he make of the first month of the new labour government? as keir starmer, given the right response to the southport riots, i'll also be joined by the man that could take over leading the tories throughout their time in opposition, robert jenrick. can he reunite the right? and i'll be joined by lord walney, who's the government's independent adviser on political violence and disruption, to share his insider knowledge . and sir david insider knowledge. and sir david davis, the former brexit secretary, will be rafe weighing in on the riots, as well as the tory leadership race. well, i'm

delighted to be joined, first of all by the former labour mp and peer lord soley. lovely to see this morning. hopefully you can hear me. okay, i don't know if you caught my previous brilliant. i don't know if you heard my previous interview with rupert lowe, who's a reform uk mp, but he's laying the blame for some of this unrest at tony blair's door , lord soley saying blair's door, lord soley saying that under the blair government too many people were let into the country. mass immigration has caused people not to assimilate and integrate properly and that's why we're where we are today. is that fair criticism? do you think ? criticism? do you think? >> no. not wholly. i mean, there's certainly and tony blair would say this himself that i think he, he enabled free movement in europe quicker than we should have done. so we had a lot of polish people come at that time. but as you all know from your news generally and people generally, people are not talking about polish people coming. it's not about that anymore. and we're out of the european union. so it's not

about that anymore, no, i think this is different. and i think we need to address it with a recognition of present problems. >> what do you think is sparking the present problems and the unrest we've had? kemi badenoch the tory leadership contender talk about how people haven't properly integrated into the uk. i mean, do you agree with that analysis? and why do you think thatis? >> no, i don't think i don't wouldn't agree with that . i wouldn't agree with that. i think he makes some intelligent comments. so i'm not knock it all together. but i don't think that's right. i think what's happening and the whole world is seeing this mass movement of people. it's not just britain . people. it's not just britain. now, we do have a problem of managing immigration policy, and i do have to say that the last government, in a way lost control of it. so they come out of the european union, and that had reduced european immigration. but they then didn't seem to have a policy on immigration at all. so you've got this much greater increase. and of course, it has involved

people from other cultures. so you get this sort of combination of racism , culture and just of racism, culture and just genuine fear of change, which i think we have to listen to, which is why we do have to do something about the numbers. numbers do matter. >> but lord soley was keir starmer right in the week to basically castigate anyone involved in any unrest as far right, some people have said that that's only made things worse. not better. >> i don't think it's made them worse or better, but i think yes, i would, i would be the first to say, look, this is not just the far right, but i do think they are playing an absolutely critical role in it. they are playing a leadership role. and i think that what keir starmer was indicating in a way, we do have to deal with that so that there is intelligence involved here, policing, intelligence and so on as to who the leaders are and how they're organising. because if you look at what happened in the last couple of days, last night intruded, that's got to be some

serious thinking going on by some leaders somewhere in that outfit. and that will attract ordinary people who are worried and scared, and probably also quite a few of them upset by the last election because they didn't. you know, a minority of them didn't get what they wanted . them didn't get what they wanted. and, you know, you have to live with that for a democratic politics. you do anyway . politics. you do anyway. >> are you surprised under the circumstances? i mean, we've seen sort of places alight, set alight in sunderland, a police station. we've seen police vans on fire. we've seen this unrest, not just localised to southport, but also in other areas of the uk. are you surprised that parliament hasn't been recalled? we haven't had a cobra meeting yet by the new government and indeed we learn that prime minister keir starmer is due to go on holiday this week . go on holiday this week. >> well, yeah, but the main thing is that the ministers are grabbing it and yvette cooper the home secretary will be in charge of this at the moment. that's right. this is and it is also right that both keir

starmer and the government generally have set conditions for what must be done, i.e. the rule of law must be enforced. you have to deal with those riots, you don't make excuses for them. and then at the same time, you need to have an ongoing policy about how we deal with immigration and the numbers involved. >> but should parliament be recalled, do you think, should there be a cobra meeting, you've got the british public sort of waiting for solutions, and yet it seems to me that our mps and indeed perhaps some members of government, are going to be absent over the course of the next few days. >> i think you're not quite at the stage where you would recall parliament. it is possible that might have to be done, but i think everybody is hoping at the parliamentary and other levels actually, that this can be dealt with first of all by the police getting full control of the situation and the rioters giving up the, you know, the supporting behaviour. and then at the same time, the government has got to get on with the policies it's

doing on immigration because those policies have started . but those policies have started. but of course, people won't see that. so the frustration and angeris that. so the frustration and anger is there and simply recalling parliament doesn't solve that. although as i say, it might become necessary not solely. >> thank you so much forjoining me this morning. lovely to speak to you. well, let's see what robert jenrick the tory leadership candidate has to say about what's been going on on the streets of britain and indeed, whether he has got a chance of becoming the next tory leader. he's to be with in the studio to discuss it all. i'll be back in

welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news well, robert jenrick is in the studio. tory leadership candidate , the tory leadership candidate, the mp for newark. for the first of a start of our big, juicy leadership interviews. robert. so we've got quite a lot of time to try and drill into some of

these issues. should we start with this sense of anarchy on the streets of britain? i mean, that might be overstating it, but that was the sun on sunday's headune but that was the sun on sunday's headline this morning. priti patel, your leadership candidate rival, has called for parliament to be recalled. there are concerns, aren't they, that elected representatives aren't really present as people are greatly concerned about police stations going up in flames in sunderland, there seems to be no end to the unrest. keir starmer is going on holiday this week. we understand. what's your reaction to that ? reaction to that? >> well, look i think it would be completely wrong for the prime minister to go on holiday whilst parts of britain are burning. >> i'm sure he's had an an election campaign. >> he's got a family. he deserves some time off doesn't he. >> well, i'm sure that the government, like the whole country, sees the severity of this situation. i know that they're trying to get a grip on it, and i welcome some of the measures that they've already taken, like having more prosecutors, having the courts sit at weekends. but this is a

very serious situation, and we need the prime minister to be leading the country. we, the police, need our full support and they need to know that he is there supporting them , making there supporting them, making sure that this situation is being handled from the very top. >> but he's got a deputy, hasn't he? i mean, that's what angela rayneris he? i mean, that's what angela rayner is there for. can't she hold the fort in his absence this week? >> i think this is a situation which is so serious that it needs the prime minister's personal attention. >> what do you think of what he said last week with regard to far right thugs tearing up some of these communities? i mean, he's right, isn't he, to denounce those who are? i mean , denounce those who are? i mean, quite inconceivably, frankly, in southport, when you've got emergency responders, including the police, trying to help the families of the victims through a heartbreaking and desperate tragedy, you've then got thugs throwing stuff at them, setting cars alight. we then see that

echoed across the uk. what do you think of what he said about the far right's involvement in this unrest? >> well, look, can i just say to start that what we saw in southport was absolutely heartbreaking. i'm a dad of three young girls and i just cannot imagine what those parents and that community is going through right now. my mum grew up down the road from southport. she takes my kids into southport from time to time and she phoned me and said, these could have been your children , robert. and so i think children, robert. and so i think the whole country is in anyone's shoes. it could have been, it could have been any of our children. exactly. so it's an absolutely heartbreaking situation, but i'm appalled by what's happening across the country right now . you've got country right now. you've got some far right thugs . you've got some far right thugs. you've got groups of, yobs, morons joining in, marauding around the streets, smashing up shops, attacking communities, attacking

attacking communities, attacking a mosque. in one case, this isn't great britain , you know, isn't great britain, you know, this is anti—british. we are a civilised , decent country. and civilised, decent country. and then you've got these retaliatory mobs as well. smaller scale, from those communities out on the streets brandishing knives, bats , brandishing knives, bats, weapons. you know, we've got to get a grip on this. weapons. you know, we've got to get a grip on this . we need to get a grip on this. we need to back the police to the hilt so that they can restore order to our streets . and these people our streets. and these people should be being arrested. they should be being arrested. they should go to jail for a very long time. we've got to get order on your question about how you describe these people. there are some far right people involved in this . absolutely. involved in this. absolutely. but we must ensure that this is policed even handedly. and the policed even handedly. and the police and politicians should be calling out whoever is responsible for this from whatever quarter. and the police must be seen to be doing so

fairly for all groups in all parts of the country and politicians, whether it's been unfair, do you think that they've been disproportionately aggressive towards those who, for instance, were protesting outside downing street in the week compared to those who have been on pro—palestinian marches spewing hatred towards israel and even jews? no, i think the police are doing their best in a very difficult situation, but we as politicians should not be squeamish in addressing this issue and calling out whoever is responsible for it, wherever we see it. and i'm now very worried about what's happening on the streets, because in two and a half weeks , we've seen, attacks half weeks, we've seen, attacks in whitechapel, we've seen a british army officer attacked in kent, we've seen people with machetes in southend , we've seen machetes in southend, we've seen these terrible riots and disturbances in leeds and now in south southport. >> is your other leadership

rival , kemi badenoch, who says rival, kemi badenoch, who says that it speaks to a lack of integration. are we in danger of confusing different issues here? there's an issue with lawlessness, if i may say, with regard to backing the police, did the conservative government over the last 14 years and beyond back the police enough? you had theresa may, the former conservative prime minister, cutting police numbers at the home office, undermining the police. you've got the police still not forgiving her for that? >> well, there are more police officers today on our streets than at any time in our history, but i think the point that you make is a valid one. i want the police to respond to this lawlessness in the strongest possible terms . possible terms. >> zero tolerance. >> zero tolerance. >> absolutely. and they should know that their politicians will have their backs. the public are absolutely aghast at what is happening right now . they want happening right now. they want law and order restored to the streets and they need to know that the prime minister and in fact, the opposition, are going

to support them in taking the action that's needed. >> and yet we have had criticism of the police by figures like former home secretary suella braverman. i mean, that in itself could have been said to have undermined the police, suggesting that they've got a two tier approach. then the pubuc two tier approach. then the public looks at that and thinks, goodness me, if the person who was once running the home office thinks this, what am i to think? thinks this, what am ito think? and that then leads people to think that they can take liberties with the police, hurl bncks liberties with the police, hurl bricks and rocks at them , shake bricks and rocks at them, shake police cars and turn them upside down and torch the police station in sunderland. >> no, i disagree, there's no justification whatsoever explanation. but there's no justification for doing that. i think it is right that we hold the police to account, and that we ensure that they are even handedin we ensure that they are even handed in the way in which they enforce the law, whether that is in the disturbances, the terrible disturbances in harehills in leeds, a week or two ago, or indeed here in westminster, when you had the anti—semitic, the hate marches

on the gaza issue. but that neven on the gaza issue. but that never, never justifies the on the gaza issue. but that never, neverjustifies the kind of violence, the brawling with the police that we're seeing on the police that we're seeing on the streets right now justifies it. >> and i totally agree with you, but it is an explanation. if the pubuc but it is an explanation. if the public thinks they can run rings around the police, well, there is a worrying loss of respect for the police. harehills was the police were in retreat and then you had a feeding frenzy. you had people of all different. it wasn't about race that it was about thuggery. we just can set fire to a bus because the police aren't here to police it. they've had to head away. we've got the numbers. they haven't. i mean, that was what was depressing about that. that's what contributes to this idea that people can go and loot shops. you know, if you have an environment, well, there's no policing, there's no just think they can thieve. >> i agree up to 200. >> i agree up to 200. >> there's no justification for those actions. >> people's rolexes off them in broad daylight. you then breed an environment where people think they can run, run rings around the force . around the force. >> well, disturbance breeds disturbance. if people think they can get away with

something, then it spreads elsewhere in the country and thatis elsewhere in the country and that is what you're seeing right now. and that is why we need to back the police. we need to ensure that they are working as hard as possible and are stamping out this kind of protest. that's why you need the prosecutors. you need the courts to be hearing these cases as quickly as possible. and i want these i want these, these morons, these thugs to be being banged to rights and going to jail for a long time for what they're doing. >> i appreciate there's a new government in now. we've had a tory government for the last 14 years. isn't this in part a reflection on the tories abject failure on mass immigration? we had rupert low, the reform uk mp, talking about tony blair and under blair, 97 and onwards, too many people came into the country open border policy. we then had lord soley saying, well, yeah, that was the case for european integration. we then have a tory government that repeatedly broke its promises on keeping mass migration down into the tens of thousands. so you

have to bear some responsibility for this, not least, by the way, because you yourself were an immigration minister. >> well, well, first, i say this. there is no justification for the violence that we're seeing on the streets and the millions of people in our country who feel angry at mass migration should not be tarnished with the brush of what is happening in those towns and cities right now. >> however tory failure. you are right. >> you're absolutely right to say that this conservative government like ones before it failed in its promise to the british public to control and reduce migration and to stop illegal migration that is ultimately why i resigned from the government at the end of last year, because i had fought relentlessly for changes that would have brought down illegal migration, like the rwanda scheme, which would have reduced legal migration. i did actually secure by threatening to resign. i personally secured from the

prime minister at the time the biggest ever set of reforms to our legal migration system. but it wasn't enough . and so that's it wasn't enough. and so that's why i took the decision to resign, because i felt that was the right thing to do in the national interest. >> if you were a tory leader, let's talk really specifically, what is the top policy that you would employ if you were the next prime minister come 2029 to clamp down, first of all, on legal immigration day one, i would bring to parliament a proposal for a legal cap on migration. >> what would that be? >> what would that be? >> that would be the tens of thousands or lower. >> okay, so not 100,000. >> you're saying lower, lower , >> you're saying lower, lower, lower than lower than 100,000. >> and what if people in the health care sector or in hospitality said, don't be ridiculous, we haven't got enough nhs doctors and nurses . enough nhs doctors and nurses. we don't have enough chefs to staff the kitchens of our pubs. we actually don't have enough home grown talent to do some of the front service jobs that the immigrants come in to fill, because we can't get our own

people to do them. i don't pretend that ending mass migration will be plain sailing, but i do think it's in the national interest to do it. >> i think it has to be linked to welfare reform. i believe in a safety net, but i think far too many people are on welfare and we need to help our own people back into the dignity of work . get those people working work. get those people working in those sectors care exemption for instance. >> what about social care? >> what about social care? >> no. most nurses. no, i wouldn't staffed by overseas. no, that's not correct. >> eight out of ten people working in social care are british people. okay. and what we've seen in recent years is that because we haven't been prepared to pay british workers a bit more, we're bringing in people from overseas , displacing people from overseas, displacing those british workers can afford to pay more when they've already been crippled by covid and are closing down in their droves. well, i think we should be paying well, i think we should be paying more through the taxpayer because it's a false economy to instead of paying a british person a bit more to be doing that difficult job, we're bringing in somebody from overseas, often with their family, who then need to be

housed education, the health service, the cost to the taxpayer is greater by doing that. so it's a very short termist approach we've had in recent years policy on legal immigration. >> and thank you for your clarity on that illegal immigration. you'd bring back rwanda. you've said that. yes. what if it's challenged in the in strasbourg? >> well , i believe we should >> well, i believe we should leave the european court of human rights even though you're going to have huge opposition from within your party, this so—called broad church is suddenly going to lose its religion over this. >> well, happy with that? >> well, happy with that? >> well, happy with that? >> well, i don't come to this ideologically. i come to it practically because i have seen as a minister in the home office how difficult it is. in fact, it's impossible to secure our borders, to remove dangerous people from our country like foreign national offenders, rapists, murderers , and to rapists, murderers, and to survey and remove terrorists from the uk whilst we're still a member of the european court of human rights. so i think we have to do this. i want to persuade people in the country as to why it's a necessity. i don't think it's a necessity. i don't think it can be reformed. that's akin

to david cameron's attempt to reform our membership of the eu. that was doomed. i'm afraid this would be as voted remain. yeah, i did , and do you regret that? i did, and do you regret that? i think it was a mistake with hindsight, because you're talking about clamping down on immigration. >> but you are quite happy to vote, remain and have free movement across europe into the uk for time. in memoriam, memoriam . memoriam. >> well, i think today more than even >> well, i think today more than ever, now that it is clear that we are living in an age of mass migration , and this is going to migration, and this is going to be one of the defining issues of our time that we need to secure our time that we need to secure our borders . and the good thing our borders. and the good thing about brexit is that for the first time in my lifetime, we have control of the levers of migration. you just haven't pulled them well, we did, but we pulled them well, we did, but we pulled them well, we did, but we pulled them in the wrong direction immediately after the referendum. so the ministers at the time made serious mistakes. i've said that. i've been clear. i've said that. i've been clear. i've been painfully honest about that. now we've got to repent for those mistakes and do something fundamentally different. >> you're repositioning yourself

as a righty. >> i mean, it is fairto say >> i mean, it is fair to say that, like you had this nickname back in the day, robert jenrick , back in the day, robert jenrick, you know, you weren't that ideologically wedded to different sort of ideas. you perhaps been a little bit of a shape shifter. you can tell me if this is unfair. you've now been on this journey. you know, you regret voting remain, and now you're voting for brexit. you were supportive of rishi sunak, but you resigned on the bafis sunak, but you resigned on the basis you didn't think he honoured the manifesto when it came to immigration. what is this journey that you're on? are you credible? are you a credible righty ? you seem to be righty? you seem to be a centrist that has gone right because, you know, it's more popular with the membership, perhaps? >> no, i don't think that's fair. i've always been on the right of british politics. i've always been a eurosceptic. i was always been a eurosceptic. i was always on the sceptic. >> i was always , well, i was i >> i was always, well, i was i was always a moron. >> it's not an oxymoron. and i was very concerned about british sovereignty. i did, in the end decide to vote because i was concerned about some of the you would have voted disruption. but i've always been on. i've always been on the economic right of

the conservative party. in every job that i've done, i've tried to slash red tape. >> can i just clarify this? because people watching and listening will want to know a fully fledged eurosceptic would have voted for brexit. >> well, i took the view in the referendum. it's very finely balanced for me, but i took the view that there would be significant disruption and i was worried . i think this has been worried. i think this has been borne out that the british state would not enact the kind of brexit that i wanted to see, which was one which was driving a country, would be more dynamic, lower taxes, pro—business. >> you stood on that manifesto promise. >> boris johnson and others saying that we were going to deliver all of these brexit opportunities and that suddenly we were going to head towards sunlit uplands away from the eu, and none of it's been delivered by a tory government. well well, well, in my trust issue, in my case, i have fought relentlessly to do exactly that. >> when i was a minister at the treasury, i started freeports. when i was community and housing secretary, i tried to deregulate to help small businesses and high street shops prosper. when i was immigration minister, i

was the only person in government or suella and i were the only people fighting to reduce the amount of migrants coming into the country. but you asked me about the journey that i've been on, what i have seen in recent years is a british state that is not working for the british people. i saw that dunng the british people. i saw that during the pandemic , where the during the pandemic, where the state was overbearing, but also powerless. i saw it when i was housing sector. we couldn't get energy and transport infrastructure built, and as immigration minister, i saw that we simply were not able to deliver the most basic function of the state, securing our border and keeping the public safe. and so i feel the system, the british system, is broken. >> you're sounding like liz truss. >> it is completely nigel farage. well i've come to this through my own, my own views, but i think that the british system is contributing to our national decline, and we've got to do something totally different now, which means confronting hard truths and we as conservatives have to be the one party which has serious

answers to these problems. that's why i'm standing to be leader of the conservative party. that is what i want to deliver. if i'm able to win the next general election . next general election. >> okay, quick, quick, quick. >> okay, quick, quick, quick. >> couple of extra questions on housing. what target would you set? the government has set 300,000. that's the same as david cameron. i've seen your video that you recorded with your conservative colleague neil o'brien, suggesting that a house needs to be built, i think every five seconds to keep pace with mass migration. that's right. so what should the target be, >> well, i would do at least 300,000, but i do two things differently. firstly labour are cutting the number of homes being built in our cities. that's crazy. >> they're cutting. these are the. these are the places i know well to help sadiq khan rather than the rest of the country. >> and just secondly, you'll never get a grip on the housing crisis unless you fix the immigration crisis. because, as you rightly say, there's so many people coming into the country that we could never build enough homes to house them. >> and i need a rapid fire answer to this. what's the first

tax you'd cut if you were in charge of? indeed, the party and in government ? in government? >> oh, i we'll have to think carefully about that in the years ahead. but things that i feel very frustrated about today are stamp duty, which is a bad tax, which is make it hard for people to move to home downsize. i think the overall tax burden is far too high. and so income tax thresholds need to start going up with inflation. and i think corporation tax is you'd unfreeze the tax bands . well unfreeze the tax bands. well look we're 4 or 5 years away from the next general election . from the next general election. so it would clearly be wrong for me to say that. >> but you can understand my direction of travel taxes are too high, growth is too low. >> and i want to make the uk more competitive. >> economy again. yes. >> economy again. yes. >> no answer required . nigel >> no answer required. nigel farage, could there be a place for him in the conservative party? >> no, i don't believe he wants to be a member of the party. >> and then final question who do you hope wins the us election, trump or harris? >> well, it's not it's not for me to say, but if i were an american citizen, i would be voting for donald trump.

>> thank you very much for that unequivocal answer . robert unequivocal answer. robert jenrick, thank you very much indeed for joining jenrick, thank you very much indeed forjoining me in the indeed for joining me in the studio. thank you. good luck with this marathon. not sprint of a leadership race. and getting it. when do we get this settled? >> november. >> november. the >> november. the third. >> november. the third. best >> november. the third. best of luck with all of that. >> thank you very much. thank you very much. >> good to see you. so generous with your time as well. well, coming up next, i'm going to be speaking to lord walney, who's the government's independent adviser on political violence and disruption. stay

us. welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news. we're hoping to speak to lord walney, the independent adviser to the government on political violence and disruption. we're just waiting for that connection to be stabilised so that we can have a good conversation down the line. as we say in the trade. i thought that interview with robert jenrick was quite interesting, wasn't it? i mean, he has been on a political

journey. that is the journey he wants to take. the party on. interesting to be a remainer that wanted to have backed brexit. i don't know whether that's for political expediency or not, but i'll be intrigued to know who you are backing for. tory leader i mean, maybe you've disengaged, you vote for reform, you've had enough of the conservatives, but if you want to get in touch, you can go to gb news shownotes.com and then it's forward slash yoursay and get in touch. also get in touch with us on our socials @gbnews uk, but just in general i think it's interesting. we spoke to kemi badenoch before the election. she came in and wanted to make this direct appeal to reform voters, particularly sort of bring them back in the tent. said she was personally affronted that people didn't want to vote conservative. and it will be interesting if robert jenrick is another fellow righty, as he's now repositioned himself and kemi badenoch end up in the final two, because that is very much the parliamentary party saying, come what may, we can't have a centrist, we have

to have a righty. and whoever the membership decides will be on that side of the party rather than in the one nation group, sort of associated with tom tugendhat. i just think that would be an interesting thing to watch over the course of the summer. now, i believe lord walney is with us now. lovely to see you this morning. it's been a very, very busy week, particularly on your patch and issues that you're interested in.john issues that you're interested in. john because, i mean, we've been seeing britain go up in flames. you've said something interesting in a previous interview and i just want to question you on it. you've sort of suggested that we might want to reintroduce covid measures to deal with that. does that what you mean, or have you been misconstrued slightly explain what you mean. >> no, no. and i'm glad you've asked me about this , camilla, asked me about this, camilla, no, not at all. the point i was making is that that, at points of national emergency , the, the of national emergency, the, the british public, such as, as we had in covid, the british public have shown that they are prepared to accept different and

unusual approaches. and i think that in that context, if, if greater powers are needed for the police to be able to crack down on the troublemakers who are inciting these and inflaming these riots, i think there would be broad support for that, i think some of the people who never wanted lockdown in the first place and have been very cross about it , have first place and have been very cross about it, have sort of misconstrued either deliberately or unintentionally, what i was saying. so thanks for giving me the chance to make that clear. >> okay, i understand, what do you make of keir starmer's description of those involved in the unrest as being far right? many people who, for instance, turned out outside downing street because they wanted to show some solidarity with the victims, for instance, and their families in southport are rather aggrieved that they've been sort of lumped with the kind of edl faction of these protests. >> well, i mean, i think they they would be if that is what he

is saying. but i think, look, there is a lot of many attempts to try to control and distort narratives in this last week. i suppose there is in, in any situation of conflict, but it's been felt really keenly here. i'm sure the prime minister would never want to suggest that people who who hold, feelings very deeply, either grief for what has happened to those poor girls in southport or concerns about a range of issues from from to immigration integration are far right, but it is actually been those, i think, who sometimes been trying to stir the pot and helpfully this week, who are suggesting that he's, he is labelling all of those all those people far right. he's not. but you know, look it we've had debates, on, far left activism and may day and, and actually there have

been people who've made actually really cogent points that if you had when the, if you have a demonstration, or a protest or a gathering or whatever it is that turns violent and has the kind of awful scenes that you've seen, then clearly there is a problem with that whole demonstration. and, and, and action needs to be needs to be taken. and i think we probably need to see what has been happening this week in that context. >> i mean, maybe people are aggrieved because, for instance, they saw what happened in bristol with the colston statue just being thrown into the water there, and it seemed as if there was a sort of the police were standing off that maybe because it's involving left wing students and those sorts of groups, whereas if you get white working class blokes draped in union flags, causing havoc, i'm saying that both should be policed appropriately. there's this sense to which perhaps that

the police have a different approach. if people are wearing the flag as some kind of symbol, then they might. if perhaps the protest seems a bit more intellectual. is that fair? lord walney ? walney? >> well, there i've been critical of the police in the past over some times , standing past over some times, standing off and i don't think actually that they, that they do and i've questioned them strongly on this. i don't think they do that for ideological reasons. i think sometimes there has been a mistake in the past that they have been unwilling to enforce the law in certain circumstances for fear of the situation getting out of control there does need to be even handedness. but look, i think you are on to a loser if your argument i'm not saying you personally come over, but if your argument is, that you want to protest against two tier policing by setting fire to citizen's advice bureau and

smashing stuff up and throwing yourself at the police, then you're not really going to win a great deal of sympathy. and i think people need to back off from that position. >> yeah. no, i totally agree with you. i mean, it's just thuggish, moronic and ridiculous . thuggish, moronic and ridiculous. the whole thing, the idea of taking on the police when the police are trying to help people, particularly in southport , seems so southport, seems so inappropriate and wrong headed just on this issue of mp and prime ministerial accountability. bit of criticism bubbung accountability. bit of criticism bubbling up this morning that keir starmer is due to go on houday keir starmer is due to go on holiday this week. people have said why hasn't cobra been convened? why hasn't parliament been recalled briefly? lord walney, what's your reaction to those statements? >> well, keir starmer, you can see, is absolutely on it, as is a home secretary and, and his, his minister. >> if he's on holiday this week, to be fair, he was well look he was clearly working all the way through yesterday. >> and i imagine that even if, you know, formally he is spending some time with his family , next week he will be

family, next week he will be properly plugged into it. i'm sure that is a that is an issue which they are keeping a roving brief and prime ministers are never fully off duty as as we know . even if they have, they've know. even if they have, they've gone somewhere. they take with them the full apparatus to be fully, fully switched on briefly. >> john, should parliament be recalled at least, or should cobra be convened very quickly, i would imagine. >> cobra , may well be convened >> cobra, may well be convened if this goes on parliament. well, look, let's see if this continues and we are into the space where potentially an emergency suite of powers or changes may be considered, then, of course, i think parliament will want to be recalled in those circumstances. >> lord walney, thank you very much indeed for your time this morning. we're going to continue to discuss this and the tory leadership with david davis in just a moment. the former brexit secretary will be with me to talk about that. and indeed, i think whether we are actually i think whether we are actually i think the tory party has got a question to answer. is it

actually trying to elect the next prime minister or just an next prime minister orjust an interim tory leader? stay tuned for that. don't go anywhere

welcome back sir david davis, the conservative mp for goole and pocklington joins me now. sir david, thank you very much for your time this morning. maybe you can help me with something because we've been debating this for the whole show, this issue of integration or the lack thereof, the problems on the streets. britain burning with all these summer riots. and there's been lots of theories on why it's come to this. we've had rupert lowe, the reform mp, blaming tony blair. i've had robert jenrick in saying, well, is it the tories fault for not controlling immigration? what's the solution to this issue, david? i mean, do you agree with the analysis that some parts of the country haven't integrated as well as they could ?

they could? >> well, that's quite probably true, but i don't i don't i don't start by by giving the rioters the benefit of the doubt on this. let's, let's understand they're hooligans. they're criminals. they're people looking for a fight, they're not i mean, lots of people. i think about 80% of the public worry about 80% of the public worry about immigration. i think it's too high. they don't think enough integration is taking place and so on. but none of this, actually really relates to that. remember the riots started with a lie or three lies, and they started after that terrible tragedy in southport, which must have gone to everybody's heart . have gone to everybody's heart. i've got a seven year old who obsesses with taylor swift as well. you know, you you horrifying, occurrence. and what did they do after that? we had people saying it was somebody on mi6 watch list. no, it wasn't, somebody who was an asylum seeker . no, it wasn't somebody seeker. no, it wasn't somebody who was a muslim. no, it wasn't. and if i, i mean, i don't have

that many criticisms of the government or the police on this to be honest. but one, i would say is perhaps they should have been faster to crush all that misinformation to actually say, you know, you could because the youngster was sort of the youngster, the young man, who's alleged to have done this was under 18. they got themselves hitched up in the law. oh, we can't say anything about it. well, you could you could have said he's not a muslim. he could have said he's not a migrant. you could have said, you know, he's not on any watch list of any sort that would have been smarter. so i don't really accept going down the rabbit hole that this is principally about immigration. it's about a political battle which uses immigration as a weapon, but, you know , the 80 odd, maybe more you know, the 80 odd, maybe more percent of the country have worries about immigration and they don't go out and throw bncks they don't go out and throw bricks at policemen. >> yeah. that's right. but also then maybe we haven't discussed this on today's show. then maybe we haven't discussed this on today's show . and it's this on today's show. and it's a good point. should the tech giants be doing more , why do you giants be doing more, why do you get this misinformation not

clamped down on. there's criticism in the observer today. i mean, you could say, well of course there would be elon musk letting people like tommy robinson back onto that platform. i mean, should people be de—platformed should misinformation as soon as it's circulated, just be removed from the internet ? the internet? >> i'm generally not in favour of deplatforming because it very rapidly turns into a sort of general cancel culture problem. and frankly , also it also and frankly, also it also creates martyrs. but i am i am sympathetic to the idea that we should treat these people like publishers . if should treat these people like publishers. if you're a newspaper, your channel publish something, which was an incitement to violence. let's stick with the real crimes. if it's an incitement of violence, it's an incitement of violence, it should be held responsible. you know, they're not exactly poor , these organisations. and poor, these organisations. and yet they tend to say, oh, it's too difficult. well, what if the daily telegraph said it was too difficult to control this terrible woman who writes these

terrible woman who writes these terrible things, saying , terrible woman who writes these terrible things, saying, and we would we would all laugh, not just at the joke. i'm on a very tight leash, as you well know, david. >> no, i agree with you, time is fast running out because i've had robert jenrick your conservative colleague in here, giving me his thoughts on all manner of different subjects. do you like making his making his pitch? do you like the look of robert jenrick? i mean, he's been on some sort of damascene conversion from remainer to brexiteer righty. >> yeah, i mean, my bigger worries with robert is, you know, he was he was in charge of immigration for the period. he is now criticising. >> but look he resigned. >> but look he resigned. >> he resigned on it, >> he resigned on it, >> eventually. >> eventually. >> who do you who do you like the look of? >> i'm not in the business here. i'm not on to criticise any of the candidates. be truthful. i couldn't resist the temptation , couldn't resist the temptation, but, i they've all got in my view, they've all got to prove something. they've all got to prove that they can be a good opposition leader . i prove that they can be a good opposition leader. i mean, none of them. they've all been in government, frankly, for the last x years. and it's an

incredibly diff different job. i mean, look at the tough time. william hague had the most brilliant speaker of his generation, right, fantastic at the despatch box. and after four years of william, we got one extra seat the country can't afford. so what i want to see is how good they are at that. i'm not going to make up my mind until i've seen them strike some blows against labour. >> all right, david, we have to leave it there. but i will have you back on the show when you reveal who you'll be supporting. if we can strike that deal. >> okay. >> okay. >> come september. all right. thank you very much indeed to david davis. and of course, all my guests today. i'm going to be back next sunday at 9:30 am. this show will continue throughout the summer. you'll be pleased to learn while our other rivals put their feet up. coming up next, it's ben leo who's covering for michael portillo. here's a quick weather update to have a great day . have a great day. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb

news . news. >> hello there! welcome to your latest gb news, weather forecast on the met office. well, today most of us should see some sunshine but it's not quite the case for all of us. northern ireland seeing a quite a wet start with some cloud here. that rain also moving into parts of western scotland, maybe at times cumbria too, but away from this zone it should be largely dry. best of sunshine will be across the south and in the sunshine feeling pleasant enough. highs reaching around 21 to 23 degrees but under the cloud in the wind and rain across northern ireland. i think feeling fairly disappointing for the time of year. disappointing for the time of year . so as we disappointing for the time of year. so as we move into the evening, it's going to be a fine end to the day really. across southern parts of the country, some late spells of sunshine to enjoy here and again in the sunshine. i think it still will feel fairly warm, but as we move further north we start to bump up into this area of cloud and rain. the rain quite heavy for a time across northern ireland. some rain also moving into parts of cumbria and western scotland,

where the far east of scotland may well just see some late spells of sunshine. but this rain will push its way eastwards as we go through the course of the night. so quite a wet night to come across the northern half of the uk. that rain actually intensifying as we go through the course of the night across western scotland. a warning will come in force during monday. here. there could be quite a lot of surface spray on the roads, so there is a risk of disruption further south. it's a fairly quiet night with some clearing skies and temperatures falling to down mid—teens, maybe down to the low double figures across the low double figures across the north. so we start monday off, which is a bank holiday across scotland on a fairly wet note here. also, some further rain for northern ireland too, but further south, best of the sunshine will be across the eastern half of england. further further west there'll be a bit more in the way of cloud in the sky. but where we do see the sunshine it's going to be feeling fairly hot, temperatures potentially reaching 27 or 28 degrees down towards the

south—east >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb

>> very good morning to you. hope you're well and enjoying your weekend so far. welcome to sunday with michael portillo with me ben leo. lots going on this morning, including the latest on the tory leadership race with priti patel baring all in the papers about the threat from nigel farage. also, the courts fast tracking prosecutions in a bid to quash the growing riots that have been taking place across britain. and i'll share with you some more of my chat with eric trump, the son of would be us president donald trump , when i met of would be us president donald trump, when i met him in aberdeen yesterday. elsewhere, as russia has released several

us prisoners in a recent