gets mike lynch. i'll be speaking exclusively to his friend, the former business partner and co—founder of autonomy, the business that mike spent over a decade defending his reputation over. also tonight, the home secretary, yvette cooper she has ordered a review of extremism. how many more reviews of extremism do we actually need this time? under the focus? extreme misogyny. should that be regarded as terrorism? your thoughts and anyone that possesses a zombie style knife or a machete? they've been urged to hand them in to a police station just before a ban comes into force. i've got to say, firstly, good luck even trying to find a police station, but anyway, what do you think to this amnesty then? is it a good step, the right one? will it work? and we all work. i think, i hope, but do you think we should have a right to switch off out of hours? what do you think to

that? all that and more. but first, the 6:00 news. >> good evening. it's just after 6:00. the main news from the gb news centre. emergency services in lincolnshire are at the scene of a rescue operation at a seaside pleasure park. the incident at botton's pleasure park in skegness follows a malfunction of one of the rides. it's reported up to 20 people have been stranded in mid—air as fire service personnel attempt to get them down safely. there are no reports of any serious injuries at the moment. specialist dive teams searching the wreck of a british superyacht off sicily are making slow progress because of the difficult conditions on the

wreck site. the italian coastguard has deployed five patrol boats, a helicopter and divers from specialist units in the region. a remotely operated underwater vehicle is also being used by search teams. the body of one man recovered by dive teams on monday has been formally identified as the vessel chef canadian ricardo thomas. among those unaccounted for is british businessman mike lynch and his daughter morgan stanley, banking chairman jonathan bloomer and senior lawyer chris morvillo are also missing, along with their wives. 15 people were rescued after the vessel capsized in a heavy storm. king charles has visited southport today to meet survivors of last month's stabbing attack in the town, which left three girls dead and others injured . his majesty also others injured. his majesty also took time to meet members of the

pubuc took time to meet members of the public who showed up for the visit. earlier he spoke to some of those who provided support in the aftermath of the attack. and he also thanked emergency service personnel who dealt with both the stabbings and the riots that followed . at least ten that followed. at least ten palestinians have been killed in an airstrike on a school in gaza. israel claims hamas was using the school as a command centre. meanwhile, the israeli military says it's recovered the bodies of six hostages who were captured on the 7th of october attacks. it comes as the us, eqypt attacks. it comes as the us, egypt and qatar are calling on hamas to agree to a ceasefire proposal after it gained the backing of israel last night. joe biden became emotional as he delivered what's widely seen as his farewell speech to the democratic national convention.

the us president wiped away tears as he addressed crowds on the first day of the event in chicago. kamala harris will be formally declared as the party's election candidate later this week. mr biden says she's the right choice for america . well, right choice for america. well, you're right up to date with the headlines. i'll be back in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that, mark. i'm michelle dewberry. this is dewbs& co and i'm with you until 7:00 tonight. now there's lots i want to discuss with you today. yvette cooper. she's ordered another review of extremism. what do you think to that misogyny apparently. perhaps could be regarded as

terrorism. is that the right move or the right direction of travel? also, at knife amnesties for things like zombie knives, machetes? will that work and fix some of the problems that we have in this country? so there's lots i want to talk to you about. but of course, one of the stories, if not the main story, that's dominated the news agenda today. i mean, it's awful as i speak, a serious search and rescue operation is underway in italy. of course, this is after a luxury yacht. a super yacht, seems to be caught up in some kind of freak weather event. i'm going to cross live now to gb news reporter adam cherry. he joins me from the site of that search in sicily. good evening to you, adam. good evening . so to you, adam. good evening. so bnng to you, adam. good evening. so bring us up to speed with what's been happening. >> so i have been i've been i've been moving around throughout the area today. and, there's an area , a small area on the port

area, a small area on the port itself which has been cordoned off and is being used exclusively by emergency services. and, and there's been a helicopter on there which has been circling the area for about every 30 to 45 minutes over the last couple of hours . on the last couple of hours. on the waters itself, there are five ships. there's an underwater vessel, as you heard during the bulletins. and the problem they're having is that despite they're having is that despite the fact that the boat is very close to the shore, it's relatively shallow, although about 50m or so, because of the position of it, the hull has landed on the seabed. and the fact that the entire hull has remained almost entirely intact. it's very, very difficult to see inside the vessel, let alone get inside the vessel, let alone get in there. now, obviously, we're now entering what the what is looking like the third day of this rescue operation. and time is clearly of the essence. there was a statement released by the

italian fire brigade fire service earlier today saying , service earlier today saying, realistically, they feel like this is becoming a recovery mission rather than a rescue mission. although there is some counter to that from engineers who say given the size of this superyacht, it's possible there are air pockets big enough to sustain life for perhaps another day or so . so it's not all. it's day or so. so it's not all. it's not as if hope has been extinguished yet and 15 people have been rescued , albeit they have been rescued, albeit they were rescued almost immediately , were rescued almost immediately, three of them have now been discharged from hospital as well. so there is some good news here, but it's still a very, very tricky situation here. >> feed i've got to say, this is just been released very recently. some breaking news, in fact, that new cctv footage has been released showing the so—called super yacht sinking. apparently during a storm off the coast of italy, i've got to say this . this super yacht is

say this. this super yacht is estimated to be in the region of £30 million, six cabin, 12 passengers, ten crew, apparently, is what it would normally have on, it's now thought to be marooned 164ft below the surface. we've just been hearing about some of the complexities of that rescue operation, divers have been struggling to spend more than ten minutes when they're on their search. i've got to say , their search. i've got to say, joining me live now in the studio is, a friend of mike lynch, also the co—founder of the business autonomy. we'll come on to discuss autonomy. and i just i wonder, come on to discuss autonomy. and ijust i wonder, how are come on to discuss autonomy. and i just i wonder, how are you feeling today , david, among feeling today, david, among this, it's a horrendous situation. it seems to have come out of nowhere. we've just had the news that mike was acquitted after spending over a decade of his life fighting for his reputation, over those fraud

charges relating to, autonomy. the company that you guys co—founded, way back when. i mean, how has today been like for you ? for you? >> awful. i mean, mike is a very human man. he's he's probably the most resilient human being i've ever met in my life, i've never heard him tell a lie, i think he has an incisive personality. if anyone could still exist in these terrible physical circumstances, if there is an air pocket, he'd have found it . so is an air pocket, he'd have found it. so let's just keep our fingers crossed. first of all, i don't want to talk about him. in the past tense. no. >> absolutely not. and i think it is just i mean, nobody knows what the future holds. it can. life can change. literally on a sixpence. and i was listening to an interview that mike gave very recently, actually, after he was acquitted and the strength of his character was so clear then because when it comes to federal criminal cases, i think acquittal happens in something like 0.5% of those cases . and i

like 0.5% of those cases. and i think that to think about the result that mike got shows that strength of character that you've just been describing. so tell us about him . what is he tell us about him. what is he like? >> he's , he's one of the rarest >> he's, he's one of the rarest beasts you'll ever find . he is a beasts you'll ever find. he is a great scientist. he's a teacher. he's a good communicator. he's a businessman. and unlike most entrepreneurs, he can get the big idea. right. but also manage everything. he has an intense , everything. he has an intense, focused energy and i think a real sense of equity. he's there are 3 or 4 entrepreneurs of our generation steve jobs, jeff bezos. i wouldn't put elon musk in that category who can do everything and he can. he can. and it's been an honour to work with him and know him the last 30 years. >> and have you spoke to his family? >> no, i have not been. the last time i spoke to him, we were

swapping messages earlier on. well last week talking about meeting up at his place in suffolk , talking about hearing suffolk, talking about hearing aids. yeah. we've both suffered some hearing loss and he was talking about, maybe using ai talking about, maybe using al to, to look at ways of accelerating the effectiveness of these devices . and the of these devices. and the important thing here is that autonomy was probably the first big artificial intelligence company on the planet, let alone in britain. >> yeah. i mean, tell us about that. so how did you guys come together? how did you form autonomy? >> well, what happened is i'm a technology entrepreneur who also was a writer, and i was involved in investment banking. but i loved the internet. so we started probably the country's first internet service provider, which was called de—man might use that. and we both had a passion for video games. and at the time, his venture capitalist was a company called apax partners, a very big british success story . and i said, look, success story. and i said, look, i'm getting really obsessed with al and in particular, something

ai and in particular, something called artificially intelligent, autonomous agents. it's quite a mouthful, but these are little pieces of software that represent you and talk to each other on the internet. and we're just beginning now, 30 years later, to see these. and i said, i've got these ideas. and they said, well, you must come and meet doctor lynch. we've got a stake in his business. and we got drunk a few times and came up with something. and then we're both dog fans and, we came up with the idea. bear in mind, there was no google. this was pre search engine. we invented a dog that ran around the internet and sniffed and barked every time it found something . and you time it found something. and you know what? within 6 or 7 years the business was worth $10 billion. and i was very, very proud of that business and being involved in it. >> and i think obviously autonomy, that's when many people, perhaps outside of the tech industry, would perhaps have become familiar with mike's name because , of course, he then name because, of course, he then sold the business for $11 billion to hp, within about a year or so. hp were then having to write down that investment

by, i think, about eight point something billion pounds, and then lots of allegations then came about. and i think one of the kind of tragedies, in what's been unfolding over the last kind of 48 hours or so is whenever we're reading this story, we're now hearing all about these allegations and what happened to mike was actually really quite staggering. and incredibly scary. he was extradited, of course, to the us. he describes being put in chains. i mean, it's really quite unfathomable. house arrest . quite unfathomable. house arrest. for a long time, all of this went on for over a decade. how was he during that time? >> well, i kept in touch and offered support. i hadn't been involved in autonomy since the late 90s, but i can tell you this, we live in a the time on the planet at the moment. we've got massive, massive changes going on in technology, and i don't think the institutions that govern countries are keeping up with this. so in a

way, the really dangerous part of modern society is when government and big business and the law become intertwined. so you can't tell where one starts and the other begins. so in britain we have the post office scandal and all those hundreds of postmasters. i mean, it's terrible . mike lynch was terrible. mike lynch was a billionaire. he's a billionaire with the most extraordinary intellect and with the most extraordinary resilience he dug down. and undoubtedly he would have been in prison if it weren't for his wealth, his intelligence, his commitment. but who wants to lose 10 or 12 years of your life doing that? but he did that. and i think thatis but he did that. and i think that is a lesson that we have to learn now on both sides of the atlantic. when business gets into government and owns the law, we're all of us vulnerable, all of us. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and this is something that mike was actually speaking out. quite passionately about very recently after he was committed, sorry, acquitted. he was saying and i quote directly, it has to

be wrong for a us prosecutor to have more power over british citizens in england than us, than uk police do. he was talking about what he sees and feels passionately about an imbalance between a uk us extradition treaty and this was something that he seemed to be very passionate about. campaigning to change. >> but what we had after, after 911 governments realised they needed more clarity, they needed more information and then we got a kind of creeping malaise where power is unilateral. powers were granted to authorities around the world, and the extradition treaty, which quite properly allowed the us to extradite potential terrorists from the uk, was meant to be a reciprocal two way agreement. but the senate, well, no , this is a senate, well, no, this is a breach of our human rights. so we have this one way extradition treaty and, you know, as long as a us court can actually, get a grand jury approval, which is really easy, they can they can command an extradition. and in

the states, you know, if you are, if you have charges against you. federal charges against you, basically, it's game over unless you've got hundreds of millions of dollars, there's a less than 1% acquittal rate because they want everybody to enter a plea bargain. so there's a lot of injustice in the world. there always has been. but mike stands to me as a champion of free will and, really should be celebrated in this country as a leading entrepreneur and as a as a freedom fighter in a way. i know that's a little, dramatic, but i to me, he's a hero. >> yeah. and i think i've got to say to a lot of people, i've been watching a lot of tributes actually being paid to him. there's a lot of people, former colleagues, former business partners, because he's, i mean, he he is incredibly innovative from what i understand him to be. and when he was interviewed very recently and he was asked, well, what's next for you? innovate to continue innovating. so he despite everything he'd gone through, he hadn't lost

that spirit to keep on creating, doing the things that entrepreneurs like yourself. it makes you tick. i imagine. >> yes, but i mean, he's he's exceptional because there was there were there was no there is no intellectual weakness to the man. his character is strong . man. his character is strong. his focus is laser like, but right now we have to have our economic sovereignty back. we have to have we should be encouraging and celebrating our entrepreneurs . that is what's entrepreneurs. that is what's going to drug us out of our drag, us out of our current malaise. >> and do you think we do enough? >> because in america, there's this whole kind of sense that , this whole kind of sense that, you know, business and success and wealth and all the rest of it, it's celebrated, it's admired. whereas here we do tend to have this kind of, mindset of he's really wealthy or she's really wealthy. we must attack them, batter down their wealth. you know , kind of spread out all you know, kind of spread out all of this and that and the other. do you think we need to have a more encouraging mindset of entrepreneurial ism? >> i think if we don't, we're just going to become a third

world country. we have to show people that the way to get out of this economic malaise is by digging in, by being ambitious, by being positive, by understanding to how create capital and by and by, basically making sure that our governments understand this and don't throw a brain drain right in our faces, which, which could, could basically lead the country into decades of near poverty. listen, this is a wonderful country full of the most exciting innovation . of the most exciting innovation. we have to build a consensus that creates wealth. and mike lynch is probably britain's greatest businessman of the last 35 years. >> indeed. and of course, so many people are watching. this will be praying for mike, not just mike, of course. his daughter, she is also missing on that yacht. his wife, angela, was rescued, from that . i mean, was rescued, from that. i mean, she apparently is in a wheelchair. she's had some injuries. hopefully she will make her a quick recovery . but, make her a quick recovery. but, i mean, just to imagine what she's going through.

>> horrible. and, you know, my prayers are with the family. and, you know, i just hope there's a miracle coming. and if anyone can pull it off, it'll be mike lynch. >> yeah. i mean he is hoping and praying. oh he just it makes you it makes one fill with goosebumps because we never really know what's around the corner. i've got to ask you about this as well, someone else , about this as well, someone else, steven chamberlain. he was a co—defendant who was also acquitted. in the trial that concluded in june. now he's also. well, not also. but he very sadly was in an accident over the weekend and now has lost his life . there's a lot of lost his life. there's a lot of people and a lot of speculation. i don't want to. i'm not really a, you know, i don't want to go down a path of conspiracy and all the rest of it, but a lot of people are pointing out that this is very peculiar, that these two men, both of them acquitted of now ones, confirmed to have lost their life . and to have lost their life. and

another one is feared to. what do you think? to that? >> well, let's look at the facts, on saturday night , there facts, on saturday night, there were two co—defendants that autonomy had at this point, they both were acquitted and they both were acquitted and they both had . let's hope it's not both had. let's hope it's not a fatal accident, but they've both essentially been eliminated within 24 hours. now, that is a ghastly coincidence. and i think we should let the facts emerge , we should let the facts emerge, but it's an extraordinary coincidence. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> let me ask you this as well. you. when mike was acquitted, you said that priti patel should essentially hang her head in shame. i think. >> i think i think we have to defend our business people. i think we have to defend the rights and the sovereignty. i think it was pretty clear, look, autonomy again, i wasn't involved in the last 12 or 13 years of the business. but, you know, mike will tell you, it may

in the year that hewlett—packard, wrote this down, this company down and accused him of mis selling the business. this was a company making 360 million profit. that's not a ponzi scheme. now maybe there may have been 1 or 2 million of, you know, bad debts or something, but it was making 360 million. and as i say , the, 360 million. and as i say, the, the, the inability to defend their own people when the senous their own people when the serious fraud office has said no, no case to answer, this isn't right. it isn't right. and one of the things we now have to do as a country, what do we stand for and how do we defend our people? how do we stand up for what's right? because this nafion for what's right? because this nation is brilliant, but to do that, we need to understand the rule of law and how it applies to our own population . to our own population. >> indeed, and i will, if you are just joining us, i will just replay that cctv footage. you can see there the so—called super yachts apparently sinking

dunng super yachts apparently sinking during what many are calling a freak weather event off the coast of italy. now italian rescuers, david, they're saying essentially this is a it's a rescue. you know, it's a search. and they don't really seem to hold out much hope. another expert apparently says that the next 24 hours are critical and that hopefully your friend and colleague and everyone else that's trapped in that yacht might have found air pockets. and just i do just want to finish again. just final words about mike. how will he if he is fortunate enough? we know he's a fighter. we know he's come through horrendous. situations so far in his life and he's come out triumphant. let's all hope that this is the case now. you know he's a strong man from what you say. so how will he be trying to kind of i mean, how does one even operate in this environment to try and keep positive? >> well, i mean , if he's if >> well, i mean, if he's if there's any chance of him

surviving this, he has the strength, the strength to do this. and i hope that we aren't talking in the past tense. he is a remarkable man. and if you've had the blessing and the honour to have worked with him or known him, this is he's a force of nature and somebody who i think , nature and somebody who i think, will become a business, an intellectual and scientific legend in the decades to come. >> well, here's hoping, sir gb news all of us. our thoughts are with mike. of course. there's six people, including mike, currently trapped, very intense rescue operation underway in italy as we speak. of course, we'll all be praying for a successful, safe outcome. david tabizel thoughts with you all of his friends, and of course, all of mike lynch's family. thank you very much for your time . you very much for your time. okay. i mean, as i've just been saying that to david tabizel , saying that to david tabizel, none of us know what tomorrow may bring. we ultimately only

have today. coming up after the break, there's lots want to talk to you about. i'll be

hello there. michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me is my panel. the former chairman of the conservative party, sir jake berry , and the former labour mp berry, and the former labour mp steve mccabe. good evening. welcome to both of you. it's nice to have you this evening. you know the drill as well. it's just it's not about us three. it's about you at home. get in touch all the usual ways. you know them by now. look, a simple question. how many more reviews and all the rest of it about extremism do we need in this country? your thoughts? have any of them essentially been very effective in the past? well, now there's going to be another review conducted this time considering things like whether or not extreme misogyny should be treated as terrorism. of course , this would be the first course, this would be the first time for that to be. so. let's

just cut straight to the chase on this. is this what we need, another review and is it kind of going in the right direction in your thoughts? jake. >> so absolutely not. you know, reviews are an excuse for governments to do nothing. i've been involved in enough government reviews in my time to know that it's actually an alternative to actually doing something. and is it going in the right direction? i'm really uncomfortable, michel, about this stretching of terrorism legislation. in fact , in your legislation. in fact, in your last bit, you were talking about it, the terrorism legislation brought in after 9/11 is what's all this poor man who's missing in from his yacht, dragged over to the usa? i'm concerned about it. what we're now doing is just stretching it to say, not only is it doing acts of terror, doing appalling things, which we all want to see stopped, it's also thinking things, saying things, believing in a believing in misogyny. as appalling as that. you know, that belief system is, it's not one i subscribe to. i don't think it's the same as an act of terrorism. i think it's lazy government. i think it's using these things to

ensure that the police have enough powers to deal with it. but we should be honest, if the police don't have the powers to deal with misogyny, give them more powers to do that. do not call it terrorism, because i don't think it's the same thing. steve. >> well, it's actually quite a long time since the prevent terrorism strategy was examined and looked at. and i think there is a perfectly valid reason a lot has changed since the last time. so i think there is a valid reason for saying, have we got this right? i was to talking quite a senior police officer not that long ago, who told me we'd be shocked if we knew the ages of some of the young people they were looking at at the moment. so i think there is a perfectly valid argument for looking for youngsters who are in danger of being radicalised and becoming extremists. these are the future people who will plant the bombs and who will create the terrorism. so i think there is an argument for trying to make sure that the people that we're looking at, we've got the right people and the right approach in terms of, extreme

misogyny as well. i mean, if your object is that you hate any women or any particular women, so much that what you want to do is set out to plan, to murder, to torture, to terrorise her, then you should be treated in much the same way as we would any other extremist. but that's already a crime . already a crime. >> it's already a crime to plan to kill someone. i think anyone suggests that it should be a new crime. it's a crime. >> i think. i think the comment was that it should be looked at in the same way. not that it should be a new crime. >> i've got to say, you say that it's already a crime. this whole violence against women and girls, domestic violence is a cancer on society. it has been for a very long time. the number of women that are killed each week by current or former partners is eye—watering. but do you think it's ever been taken as seriously as it should? because it's all well and good saying, oh yeah, it's a crime. it's always been a crime. it seems that you can't go a week in this

country without listening to a story about a woman being murdered in some horrific way by some fella. well, in fact, no, it hasn't been as treated as seriously as it should. >> it should be treated much more seriously. the point i would make is i don't think you need a review because you say, quite correctly, this should be treated much more seriously. we see all these appalling stories. i don't think you need a review within government, which will take several years potentially, and then you'll have to pass the legislation, which bucha another couple of years to start taking violence against women seriously. i think when you've had a general election, the labour party has come in with a massive majority. it's about leadership. they could come in and say, like you've just said, michelle, this should be treated much more seriously. we will pass new laws to ensure that the police have the powers to do it. i go back to the point that it is a crime. maybe we need new laws to. it's dealt with more severely. i don't think that's the same as designating it terrorism. i think that is lazy. if you are concerned that this is not treated importantly enough by the police, give them more power, give them more resources, make sure they prioritise it. you don't need to. i think you should do that

tomorrow. >> i think you've missed the point. it's not about designating it as terrorism. it's seeing as if it is comparable with terrorism in the way they plan, execute and try to transact this horrendous offence. then it should be treated in much the same way. that surely is true . that surely is true. >> but in that case, you know, the powers already exist to deal with it. i yeah, well, no one's saying that the law needs to were arrested. >> what we're saying is we need to find out why it's not being deau to find out why it's not being dealt with. seriously. >> but people were arrested dunng >> but people were arrested during covid under anti—terrorism powers because they breached things like lockdown, you know, i just concerned in this country that we seem to be stretching these the, the most extensive laws that the police have quite correctly to deal with any issue are covered in the terrorism act. if you start stretching that act to cover things like breaching lockdowns , you know, breaching lockdowns, you know, misogyny, you effectively, you're not having an honest debate, you're not having passed the emergency powers, you're not

having an honest debate. you're not saying we have a problem against violence with women in this country. we need to do something about it. >> well, response to his point is just made. then are you saying it was your government that that passed all of those, passed all those emergency? >> i was quite glad to be on the team. i be be a rebel on many of the covid lockdown and covid. i thought most of them were completely unnecessary. that's why i didn't vote for many of them. >> there was also talk about when he was talking about extremism to start trying to charge some of these rioters under terrorism offences as well. >> what would your thoughts be on that? >> well, if the if the terrorism offence fits, then why not? i mean , rioting is a pretty mean, rioting is a pretty serious criminal offence . it's serious criminal offence. it's a deliberate act to subvert the normal rule of law. and it is designed to create mayhem in the country . country. >> is it an act of terrorism, though? i mean , i just i said if though? i mean, ijust i said if it fits the terrorism legislation, why not you? >> like me, there isn't a single person that has been charged under the after the recent

rioting who hasn't been charged under existing legislation. so we have the legislation to deal with these people. if it extends to terrorism . and i with these people. if it extends to terrorism .and i guess with these people. if it extends to terrorism . and i guess the to terrorism. and i guess the circumstance would be if you were deliberately organising and perpetuating the rioting and enticing others to take part in it for a specific purpose , then it for a specific purpose, then that probably would fall within terrorism legislation , wouldn't it? >> will you, like me, have been? unfortunately, i think we were there in the house of commons together when there was the appalling terrorism attack on parliament. i guess you were there that day to me, that sort of you know, lone wolf actor coming in shooting police officers and in that case, a radical islamic terrorist. to me, that that that is terrorism. i don't i just, i just think, look, you know, lots of reviewers. michelle might disagree with me, but, you know, i don't think it's quite the same thing as, you know, being a misogynist online and saying to people that, you know, women are

a lesser human being. it's a view. it's an appalling set of views. i just don't think it's quite the same thing as the terrorism attack that you and i were the victims of , someone who were the victims of, someone who organises and provides materials and information to specific individuals so that they will carry out an act designed to harm and damage and kill people , harm and damage and kill people, is guilty of a terrorist offence. >> surely that that's not. >> surely that that's not. >> i don't disagree with you. i'm just not sure. saying misogyny or you know, should should be covered by terrorism. >> i don't think anyone's calling misogyny terrorism. what we're seeing is where the act in exactly the same way that could be compared to the actions of a terrorist. it should be treated as it is a terrorist, seriously as it is a terrorist, seriously as that, and it should be dealt with appropriately, of course. >> well, i can tell you a lot of people, you're quite clear in your views. you're saying that this is absurd, that extreme misogyny would be regarded as terrorism. david says , can i terrorism. david says, can i just say, michelle? he feels

that keir starmer is some kind of tyrant, and that we're essentially being dragged back to the middle ages. what do you think to that? >> well, i think after 14, 49 days, it's a bit rich to call anyone a tyrant, but i think thatis anyone a tyrant, but i think that is an example of people not understanding what's being proposed. >> i think that is an example of how easy it is to dismiss the vile attacks on women by pretending that people who are trying to do something about it are trying to equate it wholly with terrorism. i think that's a total misunderstanding. >> one of my viewers as well says, they thought that misogyny was an extreme hatred of women, and they ask a simple question . and they ask a simple question. labour struggled to define what a woman is . so how will they a woman is. so how will they define misogyny then? >> well, i'm not aware that labour has struggled to define what a woman is. >> where have you been? >> where have you been? >> you've not been hiding under a rock for god knows how long, you know. >> no. i think i'm pretty sure of what a woman is.

>> yeah, but the labour party has been criticised by many, and i find this a very serious issue that they have repeatedly failed or just that they have repeatedly failed orjust refused point blank, to or just refused point blank, to actually be clear about women and what is actually a woman. and if you don't even have it in you to even be clear and honest about what a woman is and how on god's green earth can you even start to pretend that you're going to, then somehow protect those people that you can't even define? anyway, i think dan raises a very good point. what do you think at home? i'll leave that to you. to ponder over the break. look, i want to talk to you about people that have machetes and zombie knives and so on and so forth. they are being urged to hand them into a police station. good luck finding one of those. anyway, it'll be an amnesty, no questions asked, apparently. is this what we need to do to start to the scourge of knife crime in this

oh, that conversation continued into the break, i can tell you

that i'm sure you've got strong opinions about it at home. as well. alongside me, the former chairman of the conservative party, sirjake perry, and the former labour mp steve mccabe. welcome back everybody. look, we've all seen the horrendous outcomes of knife crime in society. i just want to cut to the chase on this one. now we've got this amnesty. the chase on this one. now we've got this amnesty . anyone can got this amnesty. anyone can wander in to a police station. you can hand over your zombie knives and machetes. no questions asked. this is, of course, a head of a ban that will start taking place on september the 24th. i've got to say, i find it pretty pathetic , say, i find it pretty pathetic, jake, that all of these zombie knives and machetes haven't been banned on british streets already. why not? >> well, i mean, the last the last government had several attempts to do it. and the challenge is that you put something in law which says that a blade over a certain length or a blade over a certain length or a hilt of a certain length, or they're not allowed to have statements written on them, and then the manufacturers change sort of one wash on it almost, and then suddenly they're not covered by it. so there were

several attempts to do it . they several attempts to do it. they all failed. i really hope now that this latest attempt will succeed. but looking at the issue itself, my view about this knife amnesty is a good idea because any knife off the street has got to be good for keeping our young people and people safe in this country. steve. >> well, i'm in favour of amnesties as well. there's a long tradition of them in this country. i remember the late singer frankie vaughan being responsible for one with the glasgow gangs back in the late 60s. so there's a strong tradition for it. they're useful as a starting point, but they're not enough in themselves and that's the point. they will flush out some material that's lying around. as jake says, they'll get some of it off the street, but we should take a much tougher line on the people who are selling these things, particularly the online sales . particularly the online sales. anyone who's selling this stuff, we should take a much tougher line. and anyone who's caught in

possession after the deadline, you know , whatever our concerns you know, whatever our concerns about sending people to prison, we should make it clear that it's going to be a penalty for carrying weapons like that. >> is it going to be because everyone with a brain cell knows that we've barely got any prison spaces at the moment. we're having the situations already where we're keeping people in cells, in police stations, putting people out on bail. so when you're talking tough and people will be going, yeah, well done, tough, let's get more in prison. there ain't no prison spaces for them. >> no, i mean , acknowledging >> no, i mean, acknowledging that we have a problem with prison. but what i'm saying is, if you want a strategy to deal with people carrying weapons, then amnesty is one thing. the sale is another . then amnesty is one thing. the sale is another. but then amnesty is one thing. the sale is another . but there then amnesty is one thing. the sale is another. but there has to be a penalty for people who carry them . and there has to be carry them. and there has to be a process of building sufficient prison capacity. as i said earlier , labour seat 49 days, earlier, labour seat 49 days, the previous law had 14 years. >> well, we did build two brand new prisons, which were open and another one that's opening within the next couple of years.

but actually, you know , if we but actually, you know, if we want to get knives off the street, we need to be serious and use stop and search powers. now, keir starmer has consistently resisted the expansion in his time as prime minister. only 49 days. i accept that the expansion of stop and search powers, well, you'd have to ask keir starmer. he might come on and explain. well, because i think it's naturally something that the labour party has historically been against, because it has been abused in some cases. but the truth is, if you want to get knives off the streets, you have to stop and search and you have to target it. there are certain demographic of people, basically young men in certain parts of cities, and you need to target it at those demographics. the young men, let's cut to the chase because stop and search is it disproportionately affects young black men . that's that's young black men. that's that's the point that we're trying to and that i think i think it's that concern that has stopped keir starmer. he was pressed to do it during these riots from expanding the use of stop and search by police. and sadiq khan's been quite resistant against it as well. and i told you the other thing is when we pass legislation, we need to make sure it's enforced. so one

of the things that we did pass in my time in government is if you buy a bladed item from a pair of scissors to i don't know, a knife, you have to be over the age of 18. if you buy it online, you have to produce id when some when it's delivered to your house. now, i knew this. i bought a pruning knife to use in the garden and it said quite clearly on the email when this is delivered, you need to come with your driving licence or passport. my eight year old son, seven year old son answered the front door and the package was handed over to him, >> it's all very odd. what do you think to this? is this amnesty going to work, do you even check your children's or grandchildren's bedrooms? because where do these kids even keep these things ? some of them keep these things? some of them are like this long. do you check? tell me your thoughts. see you in two.

hi there. michelle dewberry with

you till seven. jake berry and steve mccabe alongside me. welcome back everybody. many of you getting in touch on twitter saying , michel, we've had loads saying, michel, we've had loads of knife amnesties in the past. you guys saying essentially they don't work. one of my viewers says what we need is mass stop and search and automatic prison sentences for possession without the right to parole. yes answer my question then. where are these prison places that you're going to put all these in? because everyone seems to be at risk of going to prison these daysif risk of going to prison these days if you tweet something that you shouldn't. so yes, i'm not against what you're suggesting, but where are these prison places? if you know the answer to that, please do get in touch and enlighten me. thank you very much. let's talk then, shall we? about productivity in this country. there's a lot of conversation now about having the right to switch off, i.e. say when you finish your work, your boss essentially won't be able to keep messaging you after hours . also, back in the radar hours. also, back in the radar as well is working from home, particularly when it comes to things like the civil service. jake berry, where are you on

these issues? >> well, i think everyone should get back to work. i mean, covid let's this was brought in as an emergency measure in 2020 for health reasons, to keep people apart from each other. that was four years ago. if you work in aldi or asda or any any of these other businesses where you have to go to work, why should you go to go to work, why should you go to work to pay taxes, to pay people out of the public purse, to not go into the office and actually not going into work, i think is bad for workplace. you don't get that camaraderie. you don't get that camaraderie. you don't get that shared learning. it's particularly bad for young people who are at the start of their career, who don't work out how to be in an office environment and also for young people, they often don't have anywhere to go. they might be in anywhere to go. they might be in a shared house. they have nowhere to work. the last government said, we expect you to come into the office three days a week, as soon as the labour party came in, they got rid of that. they watered it down and we're now going to have a situation where civil servants paid by the taxpayer, mainly working in whitehall, are not going to have to come to the office. and i don't think that's right. i don't want to pay my

taxes, to pay someone to sit at home and work. steve >> well, first of all, i think you should have the right to switch off. you're only paid for so many hours a week, and i don't think it's unreasonable to think you have some free time to yourself after you've worked yourself after you've worked your hours. i'm not sure jake is entirely right about the civil service contracts. my understanding is that some of these contracts were issued post—covid and in fact, have a clause in them that allow working from home, and it's actually much more difficult to alter some of them than the clauses. so i think there is a problem with what he's just said. but look, the truth is the genie is out of the bottle. if you honestly think you're going to stop home working now, you're kidding yourself, right? well, the reality is, if the job permits it, then you're going to have to negotiate the charges just put to me. >> so they allow flexible working. they expect you to be in the office 60% of the time, i.e. three days a week. and what we've seen from the labour party and keir starmer is doubled down on it today. look we don't

expect you to be in the office three days a week if we are paying three days a week if we are paying people's wages, whether it's in a local authority, the driving licence agency, the passport agency, i think there's a reasonable expectation as an ordinary taxpaying member of the pubuc ordinary taxpaying member of the public that when you phone them, they're in the office and they take the call, they're working normal office hours. >> the reasonable expectation is they've got access to the information you're seeking, and they're able to provide it, whether that's from an office or whether that's from an office or whether it's from their front room. >> you speak to anyone who's tried to get in touch with them recently. you can't get hold of this thing is, of course, one of the things the last government did was cut down the amount of office space that we employ. >> more civil servants than we have office space for far too many of those as well. >> we need to get rid of some of those. we need to get rid of some of them, >> i disagree with you, by the way, on this legal right to switch off. i think it's fair enoughif switch off. i think it's fair enough if your entry level in your career or whatever, but if you're someone that's in senior management, in an organisation, you're getting paid the big bucks. you know what? unfortunately whether you like it or not, i think you do take

your work home with you. i think if you want to progress and get on in the world, i think that you shouldn't be turning around to your boss and going, oh, mate, it's 5:04. don't contact me until monday morning. >> well, if you're a senior manager, you're in a position to make that choice. >> but if you're a much poorer paid administrator, you're entitled to work for the hours you're paid. if you give people the right to switch off and they exercise it and they sit to next someone at work and that person gets promoted and they don't, i can tell you they'll stop switching off. >> well, i shall be getting switched off in a minute. you said that you were saying we should work for nothing. look let me bring some of my viewers in before we say good night. vicky says michelle, please can everyone remember that knife crime is performed by the perpetrator, not the knife itself? russell says the only way you're ever going to stop knife crime is national service. ooh, that was rishi sunak's idea. do you remember that one? it didn't go down well again, jaw—jaw said. this is stupid. banning zombie knives because ultimately a kitchen knife can be just as lethal, nicole says, i am hopeful that this amnesty

would work. labour are finally going to be tough on crime, and thatis going to be tough on crime, and that is what she thinks that the country needs. that conversation about misogyny and how it's going to be applied when people can't even define what a woman is, has got many of you talking about that. don't get me started again. look, that's all i've got time for. thank you to my panel. thank you to each and every one of you at home. have a fantastic night. i'll see you tomorrow night. i'll see you tomorrow night . night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on gb news >> good evening. here's your gb news. weather update from the met office. most of today's showers are going to ease and clear away as we go through this evening and overnight, but our attention is turning to a weather system that is out in the atlantic and is actually the remnants of hurricane ernesto. it's heading towards the uk and is going to bring some wet and windy weather to north western

parts tomorrow, but for the time being, like i said, many of today's showers will be easing some continuing though, especially across parts of scotland and western parts of england and wales. otherwise, a lot of dry and clear weather around. and with those clear skies , temperatures turning skies, temperatures turning a little bit on the cool side, particularly towards the east southeast, towards the north and west, a bit more cloud here and some brisk winds. so temperatures holding up that little bit higher perhaps as we go through tomorrow morning. thenit go through tomorrow morning. then it is going to be turning quite quickly, quite cloudy and a bit wet. across the far west of scotland, a brighter, drier part for eastern parts of scotland and north—east england. two cloud quickly spilling across northern ireland. so a grey start here and a bit damp in some parts as well. some showers down the western side of england and wales for more central and eastern parts. it is going to be a mostly bright start, though there could be some high level cloud making the sunshine a little bit hazy across central and eastern parts of england. it is going to turn a bit cloudier as we go through the day, but staying largely dry. however, towards the north

and west we have that feature i mentioned at the start and this is going to bring some very wet and windy weather turning really pretty unpleasant. feeling unpleasant then towards the northwest, but in the southeast, temperatures getting into the low 20s. so warm enough in any sunshine. more wet weather to come as we go through thursday, the system will gradually make its way southeastwards, but it breaks up, diminishes a little bit as it goes. so in the southeast, just seeing a bit of cloud, bit of rain, it won't be as intense or as impactful as the wet and windy weather we're going to see in the north west. another spell of wet weather coming through on friday, but signs of something drier through the long weekend. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. away. >> good evening, i'm christopher hope and this is gb views.

tonight we have a shocking story for you this evening. ministers are planning to release 2000 prisoners in less than three weeks time. and we've been looking at who might be set free. our analysis shows that it will include those convicted of violent crimes and even manslaughter. in one instance, a killer on early release has been identified as a foreign national. how will labour ensure that public safety can be guaranteed on our streets? and bombshell claims in a newly released book, say our late queen thought the former president, donald trump to be very rude when they met. plus, welsh librarians have been advised to avoid holding meetings in racist buildings. that's one which has an association with britain's historical involvement in the slave trade. this is all part of a plan by welsh labour to eradicate systemic racism by 2030.