woman for you. and speaking of conservative women, keir starmer has been in hot water today for apparently removing a portrait of margaret thatcher from a room in number 10. does that bother you at all or not.7 and in germany, they're apparently planning to limit benefits to migrants who have arrived from other eu countries to just bread, bread and soap. do you think we should follow suit? and we've discussed two tier policing, two tier justice and so on. and now it's time for us to look at two tier health. jess phillips has bizarrely announced that she reckons she got preferential treatment from the nhs because of her support for a ceasefire in gaza. what on earth is that all about? we'll have all of that and more . lots to

all of that and more. lots to get through . get through. >> good evening. from the gb newsroom. it'sjust >> good evening. from the gb newsroom. it's just gone 6:00. your top story this hour. police say they are following active lines of inquiry after launching a murder investigation following the death of a 13 year old boy found stabbed to death at a house in the west midlands. the teenager was treated by paramedics but died at the scene in oldbury yesterday afternoon. no one has been arrested so far and police have called his death absolutely tragic. local youth worker darius ryman told us he's in shock . in shock. >> i'm feeling really sad and i march. prosecutors accepted the 33 year c.d's plea and in shock. >> i'm feeling really sad and i don't know whether to blame don't know whether to blame ourselves or our service or our ourselves or our service or our government. are we failing? it's government. are we failing? it's

going to be really sad for the going to be really sad for the family as well to live with family as well to live with that. their child is not normal that. their child is not normal and for the community as well . and for the community as well . and for the community as well. it's going to have a very effect and for the community as well. it's going to have a very effect on the whole of the community on the whole of the community that it's actually come to our that it's actually come to our doorstep now because you hear doorstep now because you hear about it in other areas. about it in other areas. somebody's been stabbed. some somebody's been stabbed. some child has been stabbed, some man child has been stabbed, some man has been stabbed. today. it's has been stabbed. today. it's happened at our doorstep in our happened at our doorstep in our area, on our street. area, on our street. >> now, a woman has been >> now, a woman has been arrested on suspicion of murder arrested on suspicion of murder after the death of a child in after the death of a child in swansea. police were called to a swansea. police were called to a home in the town last night. a home in the town last night. a 41 year old who lived with the 41 year old who lived with the child is being questioned in child is being questioned in bridgend. detectives aren't bridgend. detectives aren't looking for anyone else. a looking for anyone else. a mother has pleaded guilty to mother has pleaded guilty to stabbing her ten year old stabbing her ten year old daughter to death in the west daughter to death in the west midlands. jaskirat kaur admitted to manslaughter on the basis of diminished responsibility after the child was found with fatal wounds at their home back in march. prosecutors accepted the

33 year old's plea and

my dedicated party members and my commitment for our party to serve the nation and the british people with professionalism and integrity. >> now the government says it won't impose a four day working week , but does support flexible week, but does support flexible working options. labour says it's focused on compressed hours , it's focused on compressed hours, allowing employees to work longer over fewer days , not longer over fewer days, not reducing total hours. the conservatives have criticised the proposals, claiming businesses are concerned about potential costs in the us. kamala harris has defended changing her mind on some policies since becoming the democratic presidential nominee. speaking in her first major interview since announcing she was running for the white house, the vice president told cnn her values haven't changed. it comes as a new poll suggests she has a four point lead over donald trump. >> we have set goals for the united states of america and, by extension, the globe around when we should meet certain standards

for reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. as an example, that value has not changed my value around what we need to do to secure our border. that value has not changed. i spent two terms as the attorney general of california prosecuting transnational criminal organisations, violations of american laws regarding the passage, illegal passage of guns, drugs and human beings across our border. my values have not changed. >> meanwhile, labour are demanding donald trump's presidential campaign remove videos featuring their songs. the group claims hits including the group claims hits including the winner takes it all and dancing queen were used at an event without their permission. but the republican team insists they have a license . and back in they have a license. and back in they have a license. and back in the uk, extinction rebellion have started three days of protesting in home park, near windsor castle. the climate activist said they chose to have windsor castle as a backdrop , activist said they chose to have windsor castle as a backdrop, as it perfectly symbolises an out—of—date system in urgent need of change. protesters at

the windsor camp have, however, said they have no plans to storm the town's castle. those are the latest gb news headlines for now, i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> hello there, i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight. i'm so excited it's friday! i do love a friday. don't you ? love a friday. don't you? alongside me this evening i've got lord daniel moylan, the conservative life peer in the house of lords, and jonathan liz, the political commentator. good evening to both of you. what did you think to the upper story? did you just hear that in the headlines? abba, have told donald trump not to use their music. what do you think to that? >> oh, i think it's very pompous of them, isn't it? i mean , so do

of them, isn't it? i mean, so do i. does anybody really care about why is it. >> why can't they, why can't they decide which politicians use their songs? >> because why would you want to? this is what i don't understand. if i was a singer, which, luckily for everyone's eardrums, i am not. i would just want to make people happy with my music and quite frankly, sell as many copies of my songs as i possibly could. why do you then feel the need to start alienating vast swathes of the population based on their political opinions? why? >> it's about brands, isn't it? it's about brand contamination. it's about brand contamination. i think that's what it comes down to. you want to protect your brand. if you're a valuable company or person or brand. i think it's quite normal, actually. you know, there are right wing bands who might tell the democrats not to use their songs as well. there are not that many of them, admittedly, but and i was just thinking, who if i was ever going to be a leader, who would my walk on music be? >> and i'm going to ponder that throughout the programme, because i was going to say, under pressure, you know, by david bowie. queen. i like that one. i like that version. >> it's actually really sad song

if you listen to the lyrics. >> well, i just love it. i find it, you know, when they do like the whole kind of drumming and it all kind of comes to a crescendo, a crescendo. i absolutely love it. i think that would be my song, but i'm going to work on that. >> wouldn't you be something more classical? like what? like like the entry of the queen of sheba or something from handel. wouldn't that be you? >> i think you're confusing me with someone that's a tad bit more sophisticated than i actually am. i've got to be honest. there i will apply my thinking cap there to my song, and i'll come up with a better one before the end of the programme. but look, i can't just talk music. there's lots we need to discuss tonight. and you know the drill. it is about you at home as well. you can get in touch all the usual ways. i want touch all the usual ways. i want to talk to you about some of the plans in germany, what they're doing when it comes to benefits. two tier health system. have you seen what jess phillips had to say? very weird. we'll look at that also. but, in a minute i will talk about priti patel. so get in touch with me. let me know your thoughts on everything. gb views @gbnews. com is the email address you can go to the website gbnews.com/yoursay and reach me there. or of course you can

tweet or text me, but should we just kick off then with priti patel because she launched her leadership bid today? let's just have a little listen to some of it. >> under my leadership, i will bnng >> under my leadership, i will bring our party experience and strength and i will get us back to winning ways. but before i say more about my offer to members of parliament, my plans to empower our loyal and dedicated party members and my commitment for our party to serve the nation and the british people with professionalism and integrity . integrity. >> does that convince you or not? daniel moylan, is she the woman for you? >> oh, i haven't made my mind up yet. i mean, priti patel is a very impressive and interesting woman, but she suffers along with the other candidates, from the fact that the conservative government lost because it failed in a number of respects, and it failed in terms of immigration, certainly, which we're going to discuss shortly. >> yeah, she's defending herself. she's saying that's because of the pandemic and

ukraine. she's saying it's all she. >> of course , was home secretary >> of course, was home secretary when in when legal migration increased very dramatically. and she took decisions that facilitated that. there may have been reasons for it, but she needs to argue that, it also failed in terms of, i think most people felt in terms of what you might call basic competence, you know, can are there potholes in the road? can you get an appointment at the hospital? can you get to the hospital? things like that. basic competence. they failed in that. and so far the leadership candidates, first of all, most of them are very implicated in that because they were ministers in the government following the last rishi reshuffle, which was back last christmas. she wasn't priti patel, wasn't she? she'd gone by then. she wasn't in the government , but the others. most government, but the others. most of the generic wasn't either, but the others largely were. and none of them has actually come up with a coherent story as to why this went wrong in a way thatis why this went wrong in a way that is credible, and that , i

that is credible, and that, i think, is a sort of essential step not for winning the election, because one of them has got to win the election for the leadership of the party, but for carrying credibility with voters. and we say the conservatives have to look very hard at what went wrong. and i'm saying i agree with that. and we need to, but we're not doing it at the moment. >> yeah . jonathan. >> yeah. jonathan. >> yeah. jonathan. >> well, i actually agree with what a lot of what daniel just said, that the conservatives have so far not been very honest with themselves about what went wrong. i would add to the list that you just gave also the, you know, the major crises in trust, the first thing that actually knocked the conservative polling was the owen paterson scandal, which is now largely forgotten. but that was what first sort of set in motion remind people what that is. that was when there was a conservative mp who was being disciplined by the standards committee and boris johnson tried to sort of basically change the rules so he wouldn't be disciplined . and the polls

be disciplined. and the polls took a major tumble and never recovered. its the last moment the conservatives were ever ahead. and after that, very soon afterwards, you had partygate, which i still think was a defining scandal of the last of 15, 20 years. and what solidified it was then, obviously liz truss and that disastrous seven weeks in office. and the conservatives never recovered. and i agree they probably would have lost, even with the factors that you mentioned about this general sense of incompetence. obviously concerns about the national health service, some people immigration as well, but it was also about trust. and until the tories get to grips with that, they're not going to win an election. i happen to think that no one can say for sure, michelle, who's going to win the next election? and i think any of us would be foolish to do so. but i don't think that any of the current conservative candidates will be the next prime minister. that takes us into that election. i think that whoever it is will probably take the conservatives in for a couple of years. but there's just such a mountain to climb, and all of them are so implicated as daniel just said, i don't see the party staying with them for the next five

years. >> did you see that poll the other day, the number of i think it was tory members that were saying that they wanted a merge, basically with reform. do you see that you agree with that? >> no. why? no, i don't think that's the right route . i think that's the right route. i think that's the right route. i think that response, the idea of a merger with reform is an understandable reaction to what? to a very serious situation. but i don't think it's the right. i don't think it'll work. i think it'll work, won't work for a number of reasons. one of them is that, i mean, being frank , i is that, i mean, being frank, i don't know nigel farage very well. i meet him round your studio and he's always been polite and courteous to me. i've got no complaints about him, but i understand it's very difficult to work with nigel farage and that if you're, you know , that if you're, you know, thinking of a merger, it's going to be a merger. on his terms, hostile takeover. i think he's in charge and he can decide everything. i don't think that's the best basis for any sort of merger, i just don't think

that's going to work. but i do think that, you know, there is definitely something happening in british politics, and it's perfectly possible that the next election will not be. i'm sure it will not be won by the labour party, absolutely sure of that. but it's possible it won't be won by the labour party. >> how are you so sure already? you've got like half a decade. >> they've only had their first two months. they've lost most of their advantage and they're not. >> only you can say what we can say one thing about the last ten years that politics is uniquely unpredictable and volatile. >> no, i can't i'm not going to say that labour is going to win, but i can't say they're not going to. >> i can absolutely say that. >> i can absolutely say that. >> okay. well, let's let's put a wager on it. come back in five years and see who won. >> personally confident that we'll discuss the bits afterwards. yes, if you want to. i'm not really a betting person. i'm not really a betting person. i give predictions, not bets, not odds. but i'm mystic meg rather than the bookie. but i also think it's perfectly possible the conservatives won't win the next election. because i think we could easily be moving to the sort of situation they have in france, where you've got an extreme sort of leftist green

coalition on one side and you've got the national. it's not called the national front , but, called the national front, but, you know, the, the, the le pen party, not called the national front anymore, but rally, national rally on the other side. and the traditional parties , the republicans, who parties, the republicans, who are now what the conservatives call themselves, and the liberals, who are macron's little group and so on. and the old social democrats squeezed into a sort of middle because they haven't responded to the changes in voter attitudes, over that period. but there's a really you might say that's harder because we've got first past the post, but the french don't have pr either. >> okay, fine. but the fundamental point, which i think we're sort of skirting around , we're sort of skirting around, is that you need coalitions in modern british politics. in all politics, you need coalitions. and what you have in british politics is coalitions of voters. and the labour party very, very effectively harnessed a coalition of voters. and so if you look at what the

conservative party does going forward, and obviously there are a lot of people in the conservatives who think that, you know, you see how many votes reform got and how reform denied the tories so many seats that went to labour because labour snuck through the middle. the temptation is to kind of sort of pal up with reform and to go further towards reform and their voters. but that's going to be absolutely lethal for the conservatives because so many of their seats in the south of the country and the home counties, the west are lib dems, are the main challenges. and, you know, in the in the sort of home county, surrey, etc, you have sort of more, much more liberal minded conservatives who also were flirting with the liberal democrats in large part and labourin democrats in large part and labour in east anglia. and those people are just not interested in reform at all. so what you'd have is the conservatives going further and further towards this base and alienating all the people they need to win any future majority? >> well, do you think? >> well, do you think? >> i have lots more to say about that, but we won't. >> what is your key point that you want to say back? >> key point is, i don't think

labour did put an effective coalition together. i think it happened for them because people were voting to get rid of the tories. and i don't think that the conservatives in the lib dem facing seats are necessarily more liberal. i think they're open to practical solutions to the issues of the day, the analysis of which many of them actually share doesn't mean to say they're comfortable with reform and farage, which is another reason for not having a merger, which i do agree with you about. but the third thing is that, of course, reform is now also a threat to labour. in many of the red wall seats, which i think labour is doing its very to best lose almost deliberately over the last two months, and will have lost completely by the time of the next general election, i think. >> by the way, you mentioned, french and you mentioned coalitions and things like that. one of the things i find really interesting is just how many kind of, twisting and turning so many politicians are doing at the moment to try and thwart the will of so many people. so you've seen in france, marine le pen's party got huge surges in

voters . and then what you saw is voters. and then what you saw is a desperate political reaction to that, to try and block that party gaining momentum when it comes to seats and votes. so then they're all desperately clambering around to try and create coalitions to block the success of those party. you're talking in germany. you've got elections coming up there, people getting paranoid and anxious about the votes that people are afd are going to get. so already looking at how can we try and thwart the votes there, many of the parties coming out saying they won't get into coalition with them. and actually, if you ask me, all it leads to is a collection of verses that are feeling very frustrated that yet again, the will of them, their voices, the direction of travel that they want the country to go in is being blocked by the politicians. >> but they're a minority of voters, though they have the answer to what you're saying is that more people can vote for the afd, or more people can vote for marine le pen. they didn't do they didn't do so in france. that's the whole that's the whole reason they didn't get. >> i think if there was a general election in this country tomorrow, which luckily for

brenda from bristol, is not going to be, i think the turnout would be really interesting figure because so many people , figure because so many people, particularly in this last election, they're so disconnected now they've got to the point where they just think, you know, they're all the same. what's the point? they're not going to do what they say they're going to do. so i won't turn out and vote. but i bet my bottom dollar if there was an election tomorrow. so many people that were disenfranchised previously would now turn out and vote. i'd be very interested to see that. but it's not going to see that. but it's not going to happen. it's almost like saying if my auntie had wheels, she'd be a bus, but she hasn't and she isn't. you get my point. anyway. look after the break overin anyway. look after the break over in germany, get this everybody. olaf scholz, there he is now, considering when it comes to asylum seekers, migrants, he now actually wants to slash their benefits if they have arrived via a different european union country. and back overin european union country. and back over in this country. he won't believe your ears when i tell you the amount of money that's economically inactive. unemployed migrants in this country are costing us the taxpayer. i'll see you in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you till 7:00. alongside me, lord daniel moylan. it says lord in capital letters. oh is that you insisting that i say lord and i add it? >> no, no no no no i haven't. they never asked me anything. and i'm really well anyway. >> lord moylan is alongside me and jonathan. liz? not yet. lord. >> i don't, i don't think, probably bound to happen. >> never say never. >> never say never. >> that's what we say. look, we've just been talking about germany a second ago over in germany. the chairman, the chancellor, olaf scholz. he has been looking at. of course, we all now know that horrendous attack on that diversity festival that has really kind of sharpened people's minds and their thoughts when it comes to actually talking about some of the issues that they're facing in germany. now, the chancellor, he, has been looking at whether

or not you can prevent now migrants that are in germany that have entered via a different european union country, whether or not you can start slashing some of their benefits that they receive bread , benefits that they receive bread, bread and soup. was it the other one? soap. soap. there you go. bed. bread and soap. that's tncky bed. bread and soap. that's tricky for my accent. that's what. that's what he wants to restrict the benefits to. should we be following suit? what do you think? to this? >> well, i think first of all, it's very interesting what's happening in many european countries. and i think when, the labour government see what many of these countries are starting to do and they've already started doing, in some countries, we're going to look very, very soft and they'll be horrified at what their european brethren, whom they're trying to get close to, are doing, this latest attack just at a time immediately before quite sensitive elections in the eastern lender of germany, the old communist bloc's bloc states has had a profound effect. and i

think what we're seeing is governments moving away from a penod governments moving away from a period during which they tacitly welcomed, immigration and refugees, illegal or otherwise, because they thought they had an economic problem. and they saw this as essentially an economic solution to an economic problem, to one where they realise that actually people are not goods. people are not just economic units, and that they have the migration of populations can have profound effects on the way in which societies see themselves and behave. and their reaction to that is going to be much harsher towards migrants. now i'll get shot completely for saying this, but, you know, if you if you're living in the middle east and you flee because of some terrible war, or you're in parts of the horn of africa and you flee because of some terrible war into another country, what will normally happenis country, what will normally happen is that the country there and the united nations will set up a camp in which you will be able to live, and you'll be given sustenance and able and

education for the children and so on. if it's a longer term thing, because eventually the idea is you should be able to return to your own country when it's safe. that's what refugees are. they're people who've dnven are. they're people who've driven out, who are meant to be, you know, returning to their own country when it's safe. we don't have that attitude here at all. we say if somebody is a legitimate asylum seeker, they get permanent residence and from day one, and they can live in the country, and maybe we should be thinking in the way that schultz is obviously thinking about something more like that, where people who are displaced, are very unfortunately , because are very unfortunately, because of these terrible incidents are looked after in camps for as long as they need to be and then can return to their own country when they're when they're i don't think he's planning to deport anybody after a certain penod deport anybody after a certain period of time, though. >> he is. >> he is. >> he's already announced he's deported a whole load of people back to afghanistan to people who've been people who've been granted , you know, no, no, i granted, you know, no, no, i don't think anyone is suggesting that people who've already been given permanent residence, he's saying that people who arrive in the future, who have come from another eu country, a safe

country, which would be in germany's case, nearly all of them, because they come in through the mediterranean and arrive in germany later. the great majority that those people will no longer get any benefits. the problem is then, is what are you going to do with them? because if all you do give them is bread, soup and bread, soap and whatever, then you know they're not going to be able to live. they've got to be housed somewhere. >> vera baird is what the other thing the other thing, the clue is in the bed bit, it would be given a bed if you were having this conversation in greece or italy, the conversation would be a little different. if you're having it in germany or indeed britain. and for those countries who bear the brunt, and malta as well , for those countries who well, for those countries who bear the brunt of this crisis because they're the first port of call, the dublin convention, which means that you that asylum seekers have to stay or are meant to stay in the first eu country. they arrive in, is very unfair because they are shouldering the most the biggest burden. and in greece's country, in greece's case, it's not a

particularly rich country by eu standards. so it's absolutely fair. i think that you can have something along the dublin convention if all member states agree to it, but also there's something called solidarity, which means that countries are meant to shoulder their fair share of , of a meant to shoulder their fair share of, of a problem, and so germany has to be fair done that. very well over the last ten years. and we know that angela merkel let in a lot of syrian migrants and a lot of people criticised her for that. now, i think it was an act of great political courage, and i think it was the right thing to have done, given what was happening in that country at that time. so, look, you will always have a tiny, tiny minority of people of all ethnicities and backgrounds who will do terrible things. and i don't think it's right that after one person does something terrible that that should therefore dictate policy. and because if you do, do that, then that's a form of collective punishment. i think that's always wrong . always wrong. >> jonathan, can i don't think you're quite on the point. >> can i just respond, though,

to one of your points that you just made because you were just saying that, you know, angela merkel when she was in like, come on, come on. >> and she expanded and welcomed loads of people from syria and syria and so on and so forth in order to plug her own gaps in her own labour market. i will just say there will be people screaming at their television sets and talking about things like those mass sex attacks on new year's eve, for example. so whilst you might think that there'll be a lot of people celebrating that move, there'll also be a lot of people that will raise a humongous question marks about what did that actually do domestically to safety within germany, that move. so i do want to just make that point. but anyway, carry on. what is it you wanted to say? >>i say? >> i don't think i jonathan, i think is not quite on the point . think is not quite on the point. the point is not, are people going to arrive as a result of being displaced? i mean, a lot arrive not because they're displaced, but because they just they're willing to pay through, in our case, 3 or £4000 for a trip across europe and over the channel because they see better

opportunities. but there will be some. and syria might have been an example at the time that angela merkel was , chancellor, angela merkel was, chancellor, where people had driven out because their their lives were intolerable and they're in a condition of danger because of a civil war that's going on. and the question is , when they the question is, when they arrive, do you acknowledging that they are genuine refugees from a serious crisis , do you from a serious crisis, do you then say the result of that is that you can not only enter our country, but you can have permanent residence and become part of the labour force and settle here permanently ? or is settle here permanently? or is it what they would do if they arrived in, say, jordan, a peaceful country , and they peaceful country, and they would, where they would no doubt be put in camps and supported and sustained with a view to going back to syria at the end of the crisis . now that that is of the crisis. now that that is the that is the point. i think ,

the that is the point. i think, because what what has happened is that up until now, the former has been happened driven, not not merely by compassion and solidarity , but driven by an solidarity, but driven by an economic attitude which saw them as substitute workers for a falling birth rate. the social consequences of that are now becoming apparent. and i think and i'm not talking about simply individual crimes of murder, as individual crimes of murder, as in solingen , but the social in solingen, but the social consequences more broadly are now becoming apparent. and i think people are having a very different view. >> i think that economic migration is a good thing, and we can have a conversation about that. but actually the majority of people who come here are granted are considered to be legitimate asylum seekers. some 76% of the last count. so actually , i think it's a false actually, i think it's a false debate. and i do also encourage you to i do also encourage you to look at the history of migration. my own great grandparents, great great grandparents, great great grandparents were what you might call them, refugees from eastern europe who are suffering

pogroms. you might call them economic migrants. they were, in fact, both. but the idea that they were the idea, no, they were not tiny numbers at all. the waves of migration. you. i'm sorry. you know, the waves of migration at the end of the 19th century were absolutely enormous. and you had people fleeing from very difficult circumstances, racial discrimination and also economic migrants. the idea that those people should have somehow gone back to eastern european countries or indeed after the second world war, the idea that they should have gone back to poland or germany or whatever is completely not in keeping with any kind of reality of lived experience. >> can i give some say? >> can i give some say? >> the waves you know you are not. you are not claiming that by, say, 1910 at the end of the 19th century, once it is all, over 10% of the population of the united kingdom had been born abroad. >> well, i don't know whether those are the sorts of figures we're talking about. >> well, hang on, never mind, 19. nothing like that. let me move forward into 2020 force wave. because in this country right here in the in the here

and now, get this everyone. 1.6 million migrants apparently live in britain that are unemployed, not actively looking for work. they cost the taxpayer , you and they cost the taxpayer, you and l, they cost the taxpayer, you and i, an estimated £8 billion per yeah i, an estimated £8 billion per year. what do you think to this? well, i don't think it matters that they are matters to me. it matters to lots of the viewers that they are paying for people that they are paying for people that are not here. >> i'm probably going to be on the same side as jonathan. i don't think it matters that they are migrants. once we've decided as in my view, was wrongly decided on fundamentally economic grounds because you know, we can't think of people as people. we only think of them like in the same box as if there were a box of a box of goods onceit were a box of a box of goods once it was decided to let them in and they were legitimately allowed to stay here permanently and to work inevitably they are then going to be passing through penods then going to be passing through periods of unemployment and eventually into retirement . and eventually into retirement. and to say that they're economically inactive. >> these are not asylum seekers,

by the way. no no, just to be clear about those. >> no, these are people who've been legitimately let into the country at their request with our permission. and we have given them we have given them that permission, but they fit into a bigger box, and the bigger box is the number of people who are economically inactive, who are both migrants and not migrants, people who are not migrants at all. and we have far too many people who are economically inactive, whether they're migrants or not. and that's the issue that we need to address. and again, it's one where the conservatives, you know, we have mel stride canvassing to become leader of the party. he was in charge of work and pensions, but nothing was done to , as far as i could was done to, as far as i could tell in the last year to try and address this problem, even though it was very well flagged up and i have every expectation that labour is going to run away from the problem as fast as it can, because they'd rather have more immigration than get people who are living here back into back into work. many of them can do that, can go back. >> i mean, the first thing to say, it's nothing to do with

migrants, thing to say about this, michel, is that the figure you're quoting comes, as i understand it, from, a think tank. there's no evidence. the centre for migration. yes so that's what they that's what they've estimated. but there are some people who don't work who don't cost the taxpayer anything at all because they have independent means, or they are raising a family and their partner is bringing in across for them both. a lot of these people are dependents or partners of migrants. a lot of them, actually. i think it's these are non—uk citizens. so there are actually people who are born here who are born to people who are migrants, who still don't have uk citizenship. they have permanent right to indefinite leave to remain, etc. so the figures , i always so the figures, i always mistrust them. and also i agree and i agree with daniel. of course he was right on this that it doesn't actually matter. i think it's a false boundary between sort of a non—uk citizen and a uk citizen. it doesn't matter. there are lots of reasons why people may not be working for the reasons i've already given. also, a lot of people have caring responsibilities. a lot of people, yes, may be in long term

sickness. it happens. >> do you think that anyone, irrespective of their background, whether they're, you know, whatever background is irrelevant if you're working age and you're able bodied, able minded and you're physically able to go to work, do you think you should ever be able to live on welfare as a choice? >> well, i just disagree with the premise of the question. i really don't think there are a lot of people in this country who are living a great question. well, i'm it may be a great question. i'm disagreeing with the premise of it, which is that not a lot of people are treating benefits as a lifestyle choice. >> no, wait a minute, jonathan. we know we know that after after covid, there was a very significant jump up in the number of people of working age who were claiming benefits. and that number has stayed at an elevated level since covid. so that's what you need to address. it is almost certain that many of those people could work. >> i'm conscious of time. we've got to go to a break in a second because i need to talk about two tier nhs. don't worry about that. but just as a principle,

do you think anyone that's able to work physically, mentally able to work so you're not caring for or whatever, do you think you should ever be able to live on welfare ? michelle. live on welfare? michelle. >> over half of people who work or are on benefits or it's over half. yes, i think half the is it half? the people who are on benefits are actually working. >> but i'm not talking about i'm talking about people, you know. you know what i'm asking you? do you think you should ever be able to choose not to work, not to be self—sufficient, and instead choose to rely on the state? if you're able to provide for yourself? >> i just don't think there are people who are doing that. well, i think you need to get out more. there are a lot of there are. there is a tiny list. obviously there are. obviously there are. this is very, very there are. this is very, very there are. this is very, very there are very, very small numbers of people. >> this is how the system operates. >> let me put it this to you this way. if there are people who are abusing the system, they should obviously not be abusing the system. i just disagree with the system. i just disagree with the scale that is kind of so present. >> i didn't give you a scale. i just asked you a simple question. >> i don't think that people should be cheating. i don't

think that people should be cheating the benefits system. absolutely. >> the principle was always that if you came, if you lost your job, you got unemployment benefit for a limited period. >> there used to be i mean, you were old fashioned. there used to be a bit of shame, and then you were on your own with having to go down and rely on the jobcentre or whatever. anyway, look, i do have to go to a break. i would have carried this conversation all night long, quite frankly. but i want to tell you the bizarreness that seems to be going on in our nhs when it comes to the treatment that you get based on your position when it comes to israel and gaza . stay tuned. i'll see and gaza. stay tuned. i'll see you in

hi there, i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me, daniel moylan and jonathan lis wimereux. look, it is friday. i'm doing this a bit earlier than normal, but what a what a week it's been. jul tavern is open, so cheers. look, cheers to

the start of the weekend. cheers to each and every one of you here. and also to you at home. can't lie. my favourite part of the week. look we've talked to policing today. justice. now i want to talk to you about a very bizarre concept. two tier healthcare. have you seen this. the labour party's jess phillips very very bizarre and she seems quite proud to tell people that she went to an nhs hospital in birmingham. long story short, there was this huge queue and all the rest of it. she reckons that she got fast tracked because get this everybody, the doctor actually agreed with her stance on gaza. i quote she says the following i got through because of who i am, and also the doctor who saw me was palestinian. as it turns out, almost all the doctors in birmingham seem to be like, i like you. you voted for a ceasefire. therefore i got through quicker. you will all also remember the story of the little boy in manchester who was jewish, and he had the complete opposite treatment. so apparently nurses wearing

pro—palestine badges. actually, there's a picture of the little boy now , this is according to a boy now, this is according to a family relative. he was actually placed on the floor, treated quite badly in the hospital, had to issue an apology. so what is going on here, daniel? >> well, you remind me there. it's not as funny as it might be. i mean, if it was just jess phillips. i like jess phillips a because she's a brummie and b because she's a brummie and b because she's a brummie and b because she says the silliest things. and this is, this is one of them. i mean , i remember the of them. i mean, i remember the end of animal, you know, george orwell's animal farm, where the communist pigs who have taken over the farm are all dressed up in suits because they've become proper capitalists, really. and, you know , they're now they're you know, they're now they're now the ruling class . and i now the ruling class. and i always think, you know, why shouldn't labour? they're the ruling class. why shouldn't they go to the front of the queue at the nhs and nothing to do with palestine? they should just get smart treatment anyway, like tony blair did when he had his heart attack. >> what's the tory ministers going privately and not using? >> well, going privately is another matter. at least you pay

for it. you're not actually claiming free.

so this is dewbs& co and michelle dewberry and i do apologise. i think we just got cut off, a level with you. i just got to a point where i thought jonathan was talking such nonsense. i decided to

spare you all. quite frankly, i did. i just thought, you know what? we'll just. we'll just go to a break anyway. look we are back. jonathan is still here, as is daniel moylan. this is a very important conversation. this is about, what jess phillips said, and she's suggesting that she got fast tracked in the nhs because of her pro, gaza ceasefire stance. now, i gave you the other example of the hospital in manchester, actually, that had to apologise about a little jewish boy apparently he was treated the exact opposite way by nurses that apparently had pro—palestine badges on this is quite concerning. if the care that you're receiving from our nhs is dictated by your position on any political matter, quite frankly i agree with you. >> if that's what's happened, i don't know anything about that little boy , but if that's been little boy, but if that's been that's reported accurately, then that's reported accurately, then that's a that's a terrible thing that's a that's a terrible thing that happened, as for jess phillips , i saw a doctor on phillips, i saw a doctor on twitter who said that she simply mistaken that phillips herself described an episode where she

was having trouble breathing. my lips had gone blue and i tory or labour or reform, irres had ive of whether tory or labour or reform, irreshad gone whether tory or labour or reform, irreshad gone blue :her tory or labour or reform, irreshad gone blue and couldn't breathe. if you turn up lips had gone blue and i couldn't breathe. if you turn up to a&e in that state, triage to a&e in that state, triage will prioritise you no matter will prioritise you no matter who you are. so i think that who you are. so i think that it's a very unfortunate thing, it's a very unfortunate thing, she said. and potentially got she said. and potentially got that doctor into trouble. and that doctor into trouble. and doctors make polite. i'm not doctors make polite. i'm not saying she's lying . i'm saying saying she's lying . i'm saying saying she's lying. i'm saying that the doctor may have been saying she's lying. i'm saying that the doctor may have been saying the doctors make chit saying the doctors make chit chat with with patients. she chat with with patients. she said the doctor may have said, i said the doctor may have said, i like you. thanks for voting for like you. thanks for voting for the ceasefire or whatever. it the ceasefire or whatever. it does not follow that she was does not follow that she was actually leapfrogged above actually leapfrogged above somebody else who was more needy, who was more worthy of somebody else who was more needy, who was more worthy of treatment , because i do treatment , because i do needy, who was more worthy of treatment, because i do get a needy, who was more worthy of treatment, because i do get a little bit concerned about this, little bit concerned about this, because we are in a situation because we are in a situation now where, you know, we can now where, you know, we can argue about this till the cows argue about this till the cows come home. come home. >> daniel, about whether or not >> daniel, about whether or not there's two tier policing, two there's two tier policing, two tier justice. there's two tier policing, two tierjustice. i would argue that tier justice. there's two tier policing, two tierjustice. i would argue that there is, but when you go in there is, but when you go in your hour of need and you're your hour of need and you're vulnerable, you need to feel vulnerable, you need to feel confident that the person that confident that the person that is going to provide you care is going to provide you care will provide care to you, will provide care to you, irrespective of whether you're a irrespective of whether you're a tory or labour or reform, tory or labour or reform,

irrespective of whether irrespective of whether you're pro—palestine, pro—israel, whatever it is . and i worry whatever it is. and i worry actually that when things like this are happening, it does undermine the trust that people have in the nhs personally , i have in the nhs personally, i think you can be confident that you will be treated without regard to those considerations. >> if that changed, i think that would be a very worrying thing. but i do believe , frankly, if but i do believe, frankly, if you engage with the nhs in a&e, you engage with the nhs in a&e, you might have lots of reasons for complaint, you might have lots of reasons to be satisfied, but this wouldn't be one of the reasons for complaint, except in possibly the most egregious and astonishing circumstances. and let's try and make sure that just doesn't change. >> the most basic principle of the nhs is that people are treated according to need. i think that's, and anyone who goesin think that's, and anyone who goes in to be a doctor or a nurse was ascribed to that view that you treat people who need to be treated. >> so these guys think nothing

to see here, basically. do you agree with that sentiment or not? look, before i do leave you and send you nicely on your way to the weekend with a smile. i do want to ask you about this. have you seen, keir starmer is coming under fire today? apparently he's removed a portrait of britain's first female prime minister, margaret thatcher, from downing street, it was apparently commissioned , it was apparently commissioned, this painting by gordon brown, he says, and apparently he's called this unsettling, having it hanging there. is that fair enough, daniel? >> well, you know, keir starmer is a funny guy. he did. he did a quick fire interview recently in which he said, what's your favourite book? he doesn't have a favourite book . what's your a favourite book. what's your favourite poem? he doesn't have a favourite poem. and what do you dream about? and he said i don't dream but i bet that's because he has bad dreams and in his bad dreams he sees mrs. thatcher and that is the point. and he comes into that room and he sees that portrait. it's a very good portrait of the greatest prime minister we've had in the last 50 years. looking down on him, he feels his own inadequacy and all those memories of bad dreams come

rushing back. and a toughie like gordon brown, of course, could acknowledge mrs. thatcher's greatness . but keir has to have greatness. but keir has to have the time to capitalise on it. >> he invites her around. >> he invites her around. >> keir has to have a handkerchief or a bag or something put over it before it's taken away and locked in a cupboard. and even then i bet he'll never walk past that cupboard without trembling. >> you make him sound like hamlet or something. >> well, do you think to it? >> well, do you think to it? >> i think it's a very silly non—story, basically this is something that was reported by his biographer who said that he was having a meeting in starmer's personal study, and they agreed that the portrait, which was hanging over them was a little bit unsettling. and so the biographer asked, will you have it removed? and starmer nodded or something, i don't think that starmer has had it chopped up for firewood or anything like that. is it still there? >> i just i think it's just probably the mood. >> it's probably moved somewhere else in the building, like no one hasn't been destroyed. it's his, it's his. it's his house. it's his office. he can decide what you say. >> it's his house. one of my

viewers, dave, has got in touch. he says starmer needs to understand that number 10 doesn't belong to him. it belongs to the people. yeah. so you say it's his home. but actually, dave says it might belong. >> it might belong to the government, but that doesn't mean it has to be displayed in the national gallery, changed its displays all the time. it's a complete non—story, but i'm sure that the iron lady is looking down and incredibly grateful that people are still discussing her legacy, steve says. >> how come none of you are talking about angela rayner in the having a great time in ibiza? good for her because what is there to say about that? have you seen that footage? good for her. >> she's happy. she's, she's she's having a hot. she's having a holiday. having a good time. >> do you care about angela rachel reeves? angela, angela riva i coined that. can i trademark that, please? you think politicians dewbs& co politicians should have holidays? >> i agree with you. it's a nice holiday. >> that's fine and should be allowed to have it without people poking in. >> i think i want to go on holiday, quite frankly, not necessarily to a dj booth. i don't know, maybe to a campsite. i think that would suit me

better. i've got to tell you, simply the best. that's one of the viewers has told me it should be my walk on song. i think i might coin that, actually. i like it. thank you very much. look, that is all we've got. time for. what did you just do? a sharp inhale of breath? >> i didn't, i was about to have a sip. i didn't realise you were just gonna close us off. i was getting ready for the next item i was. >> no, also

around this weekend, but also quite a bit of fine weather because at the moment we do have high pressure still dominating our story, which has settled things down today and will keep things down today and will keep things mostly dry overnight. lots of clear skies for many of us, although a bit more cloud pushing into the southeast through the early hours of tomorrow morning. the breeze picking up a little bit here and 1 or 2 showers are possible as well. otherwise lots of dry, clear weather and under the clear weather and under the clear skies it is going to turn a little bit cool. perhaps not as cool as last night for many of us, but across parts of scotland, temperatures could drop to low to mid single figures. there may also be a few pockets of mist and fog around first thing tomorrow morning, but in the southeast it's going to be a bit of a cloudy start. that cloud is going to spill north and westwards through the day with some showers becoming a bit more widespread as well. however, across central northern parts of england and wales into northern ireland and scotland, apart from any isolated mist or fog patches which should clear away pretty quickly, it is going to be a fine and sunny start to the day. lots more sunshine to

come as we go through the day tomorrow as well , especially tomorrow as well, especially across the northern two thirds of the uk. further south, that cloud is going to become a bit more widespread and do watch out for some showers and they could turn heavy, possibly thundery. most likely towards southern counties of england with some decent sunshine. it is again going to feel pretty warm . going to feel pretty warm. temperatures generally in the high teens or low 20s, possibly reaching around 24 or 25 celsius towards the south. looking ahead towards the south. looking ahead to sunday and there will again be some thundery showers around , be some thundery showers around, most likely down the eastern side of the uk , but they could side of the uk, but they could push a little bit further westwards into more central areas at times, and these could be heavy enough to cause some localised impacts. so do take care. otherwise some more wet, unsettled weather to come as we go through the beginning of next week. whatever your plans this weekend, i hope you have a great one. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather