are i've got drop in brits who are i've got to say, quite frankly, it paints quite a bleak picture when it comes to our satisfaction levels in areas such as immigration, nhs and trust in the government. your thoughts on that? also, a rise of populism is said to be sweeping across the eu , and it's sweeping across the eu, and it's been suggested that this could soon affect keir starmer and politics here. could it also, do you reckon that council tax now could be the potential latest victim of labour's economic hit list? deputy prime minister angela rayner has refused to rule out scrapping an exemption for people living alone. goodness me. do you support that or not? and get this a group of children, some as young as 12 and primarily girls, have been arrested for allegedly murdering an 80 year old. i've got to ask an 80 year old. i've got to ask a simple question. what is going on when it comes to children? are they becoming more violent? if so , what do you think is if so, what do you think is behind it? and crucially, what do we do about it ? all of that

do we do about it? all of that and more. but first, the 6:00 news headlines . news headlines. >> thanks, michelle. your top stories this evening. french prosecutors have opened an investigation into the deaths of 12 migrants in the english channel. the french interior minister has confirmed the deaths after a boat with dozens of migrants capsized in the engush of migrants capsized in the english channel. it's believed ten of the 12 are women, with most of them migrants from eritrea. gerald darmanin added that the coastguard rescued more than 50 people during its search and rescue operation. border and security minister angela eagle said that the gangs facilitating the crossings must be stopped . the crossings must be stopped. >> these dangerous boat crossings have been facilitated for financial reward by smuggling gangs who don't care

about the safety of the people that they are cramming onto boats. often overcrowding onto boats. often overcrowding onto boats and causing these dangerous crossings. and it's that that we've got to stop happening in the future . happening in the future. >> the scottish government is to make half a billion pounds in cuts, according to its finance secretary, shona robison told msps scotland cannot ignore the severe financial challenges it faces in announcing the £500 million worth of savings , she million worth of savings, she claimed the uk has entered a new era of austerity under the labour government. here's shona robison speaking in holyrood today. >> a range of measures to support the 20 2425 budget, totalling almost £1 billion, of which up to £500 million are direct savings . the savings direct savings. the savings include up to £60 million of

further savings that will be realised through the implementation of the emergency spend controls, particularly targeting recruitment , overtime, targeting recruitment, overtime, travel and marketing . travel and marketing. >> at least 41 people have died in a missile strike in ukraine. the deadliest this year, more than 180 people were wounded on tuesday when russia hit a military institute in the central town of poltava. that's according to president volodymyr zelenskyy. he said in a video that putin's forces struck two ballistic struck with two ballistic struck with two ballistic missiles, damaging a military building. ballistic missiles, damaging a military building . there's been military building. there's been backlash over the decision by the government to suspend some arms sales to israel, including from former prime minister boris johnson, who's accused keir starmer of abandoning the ally. foreign secretary david lammy says the decision follows a review which found that there was clear risk that weapons

could be used to commit a serious violation of international humanitarian law. mr lammy says around 30 of the 350 licences will be suspended , 350 licences will be suspended, stressing it's not a blanket ban andifs stressing it's not a blanket ban and it's not an arms embargo. however, former defence secretary grant shapps has told media this morning that the suspension was akin to student politics. energy secretary . ed politics. energy secretary. ed miliband says the government will always support israel while holding it accountable. >> we've always said, and we believe that israel has an absolute right to defend itself, but within international law. and the foreign secretary took advice as he said he would . on advice as he said he would. on whether there was a risk that british arms sales would be used in breach of international law. that's why he made the decision he did to ban the export of some arms to israel .

arms to israel. >> to the tory leadership race now. and tom tugendhat has thrown his hat into the ring. the shadow secretary minister says he's been setting out his vision for the future of the party and the nation. mr tugendhat is one of six tory mps vying to be rishi sunak's successor. he says he will promise to reset the party's relationship with the public and to return to honesty in politics. five children have been arrested over the murder of an 80 year old man in leicestershire. he was walking his dog in franklin park when he was seriously assaulted by a group of young people on sunday, and died in hospital. a boy and and died in hospital. a boy and a girl , both and died in hospital. a boy and a girl, both aged 14, one and more boy, plus two girls aged 12, have been arrested on suspicion of murder. police are appealing for witnesses to come forward due to prior contact with the police. the force

between the force and the police . between the force and the police. the force, sorry. the force and the victim . the police will be the victim. the police will be making a referral to the independent office of police conduct the inquest of steve dymond , now a guest on the dymond, now a guest on the jeremy kyle show, has heard that the 63 year old died of an overdose of morphine and a heart problem. he is suspected to have taken his own life seven days after filming for the itv programme in 2019. he'd taken a lie detector test for the show after being accused of cheating on his ex—fiancee. steve stone carl woolley says his father had continued to be very upset in the following days and would call him up to six times every day. those are your latest news headlines. at 6:06, i'm will hollis with more in one hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr

code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that. well, i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside me. i've got my panel, mike goodwin , the got my panel, mike goodwin, the pollster and academic. also judy da silva, the broadcaster. good evening to both of you. you're very welcome tonight, as are each and every one of you at home. you can get in touch with me all the usual ways. you can email gb views @gbnews. com you can go to the website gbnews.com/yoursay or of course you can tweet or text me. don't forget as well. in case you might not be aware of this, we're also on your radio. so if you're sitting there thinking, oh, i've got a conundrum, i want to watch the debate, but i want to watch the debate, but i want to go out. you can do both. take me with you in your car. what a treat for your ears. but look, i'm asking you tonight, do you feel proud to be british? lee, you're not messing around.

you've been in touch with me already. one of my viewers said. michelle, the question is, what does being british actually mean anymore? that is indeed a good question. why i'm asking this question, by the way, is because a survey has come out which basically shows that pride in britain seems to have fallen sharply in the past decade. but apparently we are a lot more inclusive nowadays in our attitudes. this is a social attitudes. this is a social attitude survey, in case you are wondering, i can bring a graph up actually, because it does show that brits, when you look at this as decades have gone by, it shows that brits are apparently discontent with areas such as politics and immigration. but apparently we're still proud to some extent of our achievements in sport and art. so do you make to all of this mark goodwin yeah, so i think when we when we think about our identity and our history, you have a what researchers call a civic conception, which is about our achievements, the rules, the institutions. >> and then you have what we often call an ethnic traditional conception of our identity,

which is about our ancestry, our roots. where are we from? and what the survey is showing is that basically, over time, britain is becoming a more civic nationalist society, so people are less focused on their shared history, ancestry and so on. now, of course, the million dollar question here, michelle is well , why dollar question here, michelle is well, why is that trend happening now? if you lean on to the right and you're a conservative, you probably say, well, this is happening because well, this is happening because we are now spending every day denigrating our history. we're encouraging and teaching children to basically hate their history. if you're on the left, you probably say, well, actually, this is a reflection of how diverse our society is becoming. we have more people from minority backgrounds. we have more university graduates who tend to be more liberal. and so over time, that's pushing us in a more civic direction. but what's clear is, you know , this what's clear is, you know, this isn't going away anytime soon. these different conceptions of who we are . who we are. >> i want to ask you at home that question i started with, are you proud to be british? and what does that even mean to you anyway? get in touch and tell me

about your thoughts. >> i think the point that your guest made is really bang on when he goes, what does it mean to be british? and different people define it different ways, because what you will find is younger generations will look towards achievement and what collectively makes us unified and what have you. what has made you feel exceptional? do something with the badge of coming where you're from or where you're from. on the on your chest. but as opposed to history because i think it's kind of is inevitably going to happen when you have a shift in generations younger generations view nationalism differently to older generations. so when you take a litmus test like this now, you would have a shift in sentiment because younger people see being british a different way, because they have a global perception of what it is to operate as a community. >> just, just briefly, there is something i want to pick up on, though, because let's say, you know, london liberals will say britain is now being redefined as a diverse , multicultural, as a diverse, multicultural, pro—immigration nation . as a diverse, multicultural, pro—immigration nation. i'm influenced by some of the

writing on on identity, which says, well, to say that a nation is welcoming of diversity is fine. it might be true to say that a nation is defined by its embrace of multiculturalism. it's fine. it might be true. but to say that the only thing that defines a nation is its embrace of diversity is like saying that nafion of diversity is like saying that nation doesn't have an identity of its own. and there are lots of its own. and there are lots of people, do we? well, there are lots of people who will say we have a very distinct, unique and proud history as england or britain or london or hull or whatever, and we want to celebrate that distinctive identity. liberals are now saying, well, actually, what we want to do is repackage your identity around universal themes like diversity, which, to be honest, don't really have anything distinctive about them at all. like every nation could be welcoming of diversity. it doesn't actually tell us anything about their distinctive identity. lots of brits watching this show will be saying, well, actually there is something really special about being

british or being english, and it's not a race thing. it's simply saying we have a unique and proud history and we should celebrate that. >> should we celebrate our history like that? >> yeah, you definitely. when you you look at history, what what you find pride and you find pride because i don't think it's literally limited to we are measuring it by diversity or multiculturalism. when you look at all the different, like the different niveaux that they actually tested, they said there had been dips in some and there have been elevations in others. and i think that comes from like even when you've asked people, young people say, i'm proud in proud of britain because and what happens to be their barometer of measurement is different from an older person saying, i am proud of britain because. so this this survey isn't saying that there are a bunch of people who are not proud of britain. they're saying they are proud of britain for different reasons. and that's reflected generationally. >> i'll just tell you a couple of other points that came out of this that i thought were interesting. you might agree. in 2013, 86% of people apparently said they were proud of britain's history, that figure is on the decline. as i said,

it's fallen to just 64%. just 49% of people apparently said that they'd rather be a citizen of britain than anywhere else. that figure was 62% in 2013. only 53% of people say that they take pride in the way our democracy works. again, that's down. it was 69% in 2013. i found this interesting. the proportion of people who think that to be, quote, truly british, it is important for someone to have been born in britain that's fallen. it was 74%. it's now 55%. again, the proportion of people who think it's important for someone to have british ancestry has dropped from 51% to 39%, but 86% are keeping up with these stats. the hopes that i'll test you at the end. 86% of people say it's important that somebody respects british political institutions and laws. >> just just quickly on that. i've just finished a great book and he'll like me plugging it. frank furedi, who's a professor and he's written this great

book. he's been on this show, he's been on this show, and frank has just written a great book called the war against the past, in which he says, actually, one of the challenges facing western societies is not just about how our societies are changing, and they're becoming, you know, more diverse, more complex. he argues that the real challenge here is actually about a political ideology that is invested in deconstructing, in repudiating our history and our past. and it's interesting that these survey results come out. michel, just a week after, we also learned that children in british schools are being taught about things like white privilege and the idea of whiteness, the idea of white guilt, which comes from a theory called critical race theory, which essentially argues that western nations are institutionally racist. now, if children are being taught this stuff in the classroom and then we're seeing survey findings that are saying, well, actually, on balance, they're less proud of their history than earlier generations, people like frank would say, well, what this reflects is the ideological war thatis reflects is the ideological war that is now raging against

western societies . western societies. >> blimey. >> blimey. >> what do you think to that? >> what do you think to that? >> i disagree to some extent, because i think it's kind of it does a disservice to, to people's individual thoughts and critical thinking of the individual, because you can provide someone with information which you should always do, how they digest it, it's down to them. and there's also the added stimulus of what your life is like, what your family is like, what your culture is like. and an example i would give is this is i had a meeting, i went to birmingham new street station when i went out and just looked at the station. it's possibly the most eclectic collection of people i had ever seen, and it was brilliant. like you had a chinese guy with a black girlfriend, a black guy with a white girlfriend, a jewish girl with a muslim boyfriend. and i was just like, that's what the world looks like to younger generations. that's why i said the point of they have a globalised perspective of what community is. globalised perspective of what community is . so when you have community is. so when you have a world like that, your stimulus is if everyone around me is multicultural , multi—ethnic. multicultural, multi—ethnic. when i go to school and learn

about histories that treated that demographic, a certain way, i question it. i pursue accountability, i ask why that accountability, i ask why that accountability never came. so this is coming organically from people feeling that my world is populated a certain way, and i want to live in it with recognition of everyone equally. >> so the counter to that would be, the way that we teach children in the west about their history only goes one way. so we teach, for example, british kids about, britain's empire and some of the things we got right, mainly some of the things we got wrong in our history as our educational system teaches it. because i would argue it's slightly lopsided. we don't really teach kids about slavery and imperialism. that's still going on in non—western parts of the world, in parts of africa, for example, in china, for example. and i think many people's sense that the ideological project that is rumbling through schools, museums, galleries , universities museums, galleries, universities really goes one way and it is at root, it is anti—western. and in this case, anti—british.

>> you're a stats man, and i would love to ask you to ask you for the numbers on how many schools do that. because i was never taught british history that way. >> so there's a campaign group sometimes they come on this show called don't divide us. they're independent centrists, run by a remarkable woman who's been tracking this. now. they sent freedom of information requests to schools across the uk , and to schools across the uk, and they found that 1 in 4 schools who responded to their surveys, and this was both private and state, not a majority. i think this was state schools said that they were teaching concepts drawn from this critical race theory. so the idea that britain is systemically racist, or the idea that the west is institutionally discriminating against minorities, and i guess where i get concerned and probably lots of people viewing your show and on the show is, your show and on the show is, you know, have we got this balance right ? because it's fine balance right? because it's fine for kids in birmingham new street station to say , wow, look street station to say, wow, look at this diversity. isn't it incredible? but actually, what is it that's holding them

together? because celebrating diversity isn't enough. it's a very thin identity where i think we've gone wrong in the west is we've gone wrong in the west is we don't really teach kids now about the thicker forms of unity that we have about our shared values, our culture, which is why i think you see kids, you know, from minority communities and white british communities kind of rebelling against the system because they don't feel attached to the system anymore. they don't feel a sense of belonging to the system anymore. so how can we get back to that, teaching them what what we got right in our history as well as some of the things we got wrong? >> i think it's again, i would say that that is all contingent on the area the school is and the community, because the school i went to, the schools, my friends, my family all went to, we never had history taught that way at all. the mention of slavery and all that never came into it. other countries never came into it. it was literally toeing the line of the of great britain constantly. right. so i think it's the schools that you probably do exhibit what you've said have a more ethnically diverse, tapestry because in my

school, i was the only black kid there . so what you're going to there. so what you're going to see is that on the law of averages, depending on where you are, history is tailored to meet the appetite of who is populating your school. so then again, isn't that a good thing to have because you want a history that's reflective of the people studying it, so they feel recognised and feel that you have an attachment to the history in some way and a stake in it, i guess. >> i guess i would argue that what we need is a national curriculum that that that teaches kids consistently , not teaches kids consistently, not just to things that are wrong with their society, but also what are some of the things that we've got right in our history and what are some of the things that we should be proud of because we i think we're quite bad at talking about britishness, because what tends to happen at every sporting event and tournament is you know, the commentators rush out and they say, oh, the great thing about britishness and englishness is diversity. and multiculturalism. and there's lots of people at home scratching their heads saying, but, well, yes, okay, we're fine. we celebrate that. but there is also something incredibly unique and special. as i said before, about coming from these islands, you know,

the home of individual liberty, magna carta, you know , staring magna carta, you know, staring down nazism and taking on communism and shakespeare and the arts and culture and our language . and we want to language. and we want to celebrate these distinctive, unique things that make us who we are. we don't just want to say, well, we're like any other society that welcomes diversity and multiculturalism because that's not enough. it's not really enough to hold a nation together. i actually completely agree with you on that, that i've always said, and i've never changed. >> my tune on this is teach history . just teach it in full history. just teach it in full and don't do a disservice to the capacity of young minds to absorb everything. and make an educated decision of where they stand on it. >> one of the things i've always found very peculiar, i'm quite lucky. i've travelled quite a lot, and i find that when you do visit a lot of different countries, they seem to really proudly fly their nation's flag all over the place . in some all over the place. in some countries we very, very rarely do that. and on very special occasions, i don't know, maybe like the coronation or whatever, we perhaps wheel it out, then . we perhaps wheel it out, then. but why do we only do that? why

don't we fly our flags much more proudly in this country? why don't we sing our national anthem, more frequently and proudly in this country? what are your thoughts on things like that? get in touch and let me know after the break, we touched on this a bit yesterday about the afd and the rise there in germany. well, the suggestions now that this so—called, wave of populism could have kind of impacts for keir starmer here and politics in this country. what do you think to that? also, i want to ask you as well, have you seen the news today that a group of children have been arrested, primarily girls, for now, the murder of an 80 year old. do you feel like children are becoming more violent? if so , are becoming more violent? if so, why do you think that is? i'll see you in

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you till

seven. mark goodwin and peter de silva remain alongside me. lots of interesting conversation coming in from you guys about that. former topic about how proud you are to be british. i'll bring you into the conversation. worry not. but i also want to expand it a little bit because if you watched the show yesterday, you'll be familiar by now with what's happenedin familiar by now with what's happened in germany. there, the rise of the afd. it came first place in one state, very, very close, second in another. and there's been so much commentary, and kind of drilling down into this and the potential ramifications. there's lots of suggestions that this so—called wave of what people call populism that's sweeping europe, because it's not just in germany, many people suggesting that actually this is going to have an impact on uk politics for a few reasons. perhaps the direction of travel that the tory party need to go into, whether or not it's going to tory party need to go into, whether alter the rhetoric from keir starmer and some of the policy decisions that he goes on to make. what do you think? >> well, i think it is because

national populism as a movement is attracting people who are utterly fed up with what we might call. >> can you explain? >> can you explain? >> i mean, you are a professor of this stuff. so if anyone's sitting at home going, what is national populism? michel, can you just tell him? >> so i actually wrote a book called national populism. or did you? you can get it. >> you can get it from all good bookstores. >> it's on amazon. give me the quick version. >> so we define national populism as a movement that prioritises the interests and the values of the majority group against an elite that it argues is corrupt, corrupting the country, is neglectful, is not responding to the people. and the interesting thing about what's happening in germany, the afd, the alternative for germany, like what happened in france with marine le pen, the netherlands with gerhard wilders, the us with donald trump, the uk, the uk, arguably with the reform party, although there are differences between these movements, is that what we're seeing are rising numbers of people, including , by the of people, including, by the way, lots of young people. the afd in germany was the most popular party among young people, saying we've had enough of uncontrolled immigration. we've had enough of broken borders, we've had enough of

islamist terrorism. remember this, these elections came in the aftermath of those horrific mass stabbings in germany. and what's also really profound, i think michel, is already the mainstream are changing. we've got mainstream politicians in germany saying, right, we're going to they've actually deported afghan and syrian criminals out of germany. the centre right is saying we want a blanket ban now on some illegal migrants. i think what these parties are going to end up doing, and i've been watching them for 20 years, they're going to end up pushing the entire system further to the right. on this immigration question, because elites have not been listening to voters on this issue. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and i mean, i think what's interesting, what we talk about interesting, what we talk about in germany when you're talking about them deporting the rhetoric is very tough. so what they're saying is, yeah, we're going to we've deported these, criminals back to afghan. i mean, it's only about 28 of them, and they have to they've had to make these payments of about ,1,000 to these people as well. so the rhetoric is there, and they're trying to kind of appeal to people. but if anyone's got a couple of brain cells once you

start kind of scratching beneath the surface of that, it doesn't really all stack up to some people. but anyway, what do you think that's the point. >> i was actually going to start with where what you've got is a sentiment that exists, that is justified amongst a large portion of the people, and what you need is somebody who's kind of going to be a lightning rod that's going to speak to how they feel, but how is that going to translate into actually effective governance or power? that's a different discussion. so what you have with these parties, like the brothers of italy or the national rally and so on, some parties which have roots in fascism , it's you will roots in fascism, it's you will always find with politics that the leaders to be to be effective or to gain power, you have to fluctuate. you play to one side to galvanise the party. you play to another side to galvanise the people. any effective leader, whether you are left or right, at some point, it's almost like what biden said when he won the election against trump. he said, even though i represent one party, i'm going to be a president of all people. to do that, you must gravitate towards

the centre because it shows you're effectively being pragmatic enough to recognise the sentiments of all people. you do not play to just one party because the country isn't populated by people who only support one party. so saying that, oh, you want someone who's going to be a leader that only represents you. that's not how leadership works. leadership is universal. so to be practical and to function properly, you have to have a universality in your approach. >> and what do you think about this notion then, where you've just been explaining, about the wants, needs, desires or whatever of the majority group and sometimes that is chipped away, chipped away, chipped away. yeah, and it seems to be that every single minority group in the entire land, the needs and wants and desires of that group is prioritised over the main majority. what would you say to that? do you think there's any truth in that sentiment? >> i don't think that it's being prioritised. what's happening is the sentiment you have. it has to be pointed enough to be practically resolved, because what you'll have is most likely the average person. i'll say how i feel about something, but how can i make change happen where

i'm not working to a point that alienates everyone else to my pleasure? like they say, your convenience stops where the next person's inconvenience begins. i do agree that the right has a problem, because what you have is you're creating this fervour within the extreme right sentiment, and the centrists are not doing what is necessary to say. we're listening and we're adapting to accommodate . but as adapting to accommodate. but as far as the left goes, what you've seen even with in germany or with marine le pen, when it gets to a point where they feel you are a threat, they say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. the rest will rally around to mount a defence against you. it may not be effective long term, but what they're showing is that when you act a certain way that is so alienating of so many other people , all those others other people, all those others will work together to fight against you. >> can i just come in briefly? because i think sometimes when we talk about these policy issues, we're led to believe they're minority positions. but if you look at the uk as an example, you know, we had polling by yougov this week that showed 67% of brits want to increase the deportation of

illegal migrants out of the country. we've got two thirds of the country saying immigration has been too high over the last decade. has been too high over the last decade . we've got record low decade. we've got record low numbers of people feeling as though immigration overall has been good for britain's economy , been good for britain's economy, pubuc been good for britain's economy, public services and the nhs and so on. and i think what we're seeing here is basically an elite class that has radicalised over the last 15 years, has basically defined itself through its liberal values, its liberal views, its it likes to say nice things about immigration. it likes to be openly liberal because it wins more status points, among other members of the elites, because they don't really have to live with the consequences of these decisions. i mean, if you are, you know, belonging to the political class, you know, chances are your life is pretty good and you're not really going to suffer the consequences of some of these disastrous policy decisions . of these disastrous policy decisions. but most of of these disastrous policy decisions . but most of these decisions. but most of these parties are tapping into views that are held by large majorities of people in europe. and the elite find this really threatening. they find it uncomfortable, which is why they instinctively then rush to

censorship as an answer. so you see keir starmer saying, well, let's narrow this marketplace of ideas. let's shut down this pubuc ideas. let's shut down this public square , let's have, you public square, let's have, you know, non, non, you know, was it non—hateful a non—crime hate non—crime hate incidents. let's have legal. but harmful speech. let's control the conversation , let's control the conversation, and many people are saying, well, actually what we want are just you know, we want lower levels of immigration. we want strong borders , and we want strong borders, and we want foreign nationals removed from the country . like, we've had a the country. like, we've had a discussion about prisons over the last three weeks. here's one thing we haven't discussed. we've got 10,000 foreign nationals in our prisons. why don't we remove those folks from the prisons so we can have some more space for actual criminals and keep actual criminals in prison? >> i just find it so peculiar that so many governments, it seems like globally, this is a global issue point blank , refuse global issue point blank, refuse to acknowledge people's concerns on this core topic. for so many people and anyone that watched my show regularly, you'll hear me repeat this saying all the time. but i believe that

censorship is the midwife of extremism. so when you sense the people's what i would argue legitimate concerns, you don't make those concerns disappear. people don't wake up one day and say, oh, keir starmer told me, i can't think that. so i better not think it. those concerns don't go away. what happens is you bury them and bury them and bury them and people go, oh, well, maybe i shouldn't say that. some voice pops up over here that then starts reflecting your thoughts, albeit perhaps a bit more extreme than you would you started off, and then you start gravitating. so you do find yourself pulled to more extreme positions, which it should never have been the case, because legitimate concerns, particularly around safety. we talk about this often. if you live in, say, i don't know, hartlepool , where you've just hartlepool, where you've just seen that this random dog walker was killed by someone who shouldn't have even been in the country in the first place. you're going to therefore potentially be concerned about , potentially be concerned about, well, are we safe here, you know what safety checks have been done on people, you know, so on and so forth. but you're not even allowed to say that anymore? potentially. no.

>> i think i completely agree that there are certain things that there are certain things that i don't even understand how to wrap my head around the way political leaders are approaching it, because it seems so counterproductive. there are justified concerns around safety. there are justified concerns around immigration. but what you have is that certain voices representing that point of view use a mode of articulation that is antagonistic and too combative. just what what how you articulated yourself just then makes complete sense. it's clear it's pointed. these are where the problems lie. this is what you should address. most people who are riling up sentiment don't speak the way you do. and so a perception is projected. it's kind of like what they say about minority groups. the people who shout the loudest tend to be the most extreme and give a perception that that's how everyone else feels when they don't. if you speak to a lot of ethnic minorities, they think the same way and say, i feel unsafe here. that's true. i am worried about this. immigration troubles me there because i've said there are different kinds of immigration

students who come here, skilled workers who come here, come for a purpose, do a job, earn a wage, pay a tax. many of them intend to retire and go back home, look after their elderly families. there is a trajectory trajectory for their existence here. it's not all immigration, but what we will have is people putting out a clarion call that immigration is wrong. and then the rest of the people hear that and go, wait, that doesn't apply to me. you've created enemies instantly. be pointed in your rhetoric around where your discontent lies , and you'll have discontent lies, and you'll have a more productive move towards change. what do you think to that? >> do you agree with that? is that a fair sentiment? tell me your thoughts. lots of you. in that first section, i was asking you, are you proud to be british? one of the things that i'm finding quite interesting, so many people are coming in and saying, i'm not proud to be british. i'm proud to be english or scottish or welsh or whatever it is that you're saying, which part of the land that you're from? i find that quite interesting. there's a lot of pride among you guys to your nation, but not the collective as a whole. i wonder why that is, michael, says michel, i am

very proud of being british. every single day, leslie says, i always used to be proud to be british, but not so anymore. jill says she feels that we're constantly just drip fed a narrative that we should be ashamed, and she says she feels it's led by people in the academia and the arts. she feels that that sentiment is coming very much from those sectors. christina, though, says i am very, very immensely proud of my country. mary says, yes , michel, country. mary says, yes, michel, please can you point out to everyone, we have a beautiful country that has so much to be proud of and so many achievements that absolutely should be lauded. she says. coming up, i want to talk to you about a couple of different things. council tax. do you think that is going to be under the line of fire when it comes to labour's tinkering plans and children? what's going on? a group of kids arrested for murder. i mean, are kids getting

more violent? if so, what do we do about this? see you in

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry till seven mcgoodwin de silva alongside me. alice says interesting. first conversation. michel, please point out the uk voted left when the rest of europe seems to be voting rights. is that fair, matt? >> well, i think in terms of the national breakdown, i don't think, you know, labour might have won a majority, but they only got about 20, 25% of the overall share of adults in the country. it's very soon before the end of the programme. >> i want to talk to you about council tax and potential labour plans there. but before i get to that, a story caught my eye. you might have seen this, an 80 year old man. he has been murdered. it turns out that a group of children are predominantly girls. i don't know why that kind of stopped me in my tracks

a little bit more, but it was predominantly. girls have been arrested for this man's murder. now it's an active case, but i don't want to get too much into the specifics of this. but so many headlines these days seem to centre around criminal, violent acts of very, very young children, do you think children are getting more violent? are we just getting exposed to it? more like what's going on? >> yeah, there's a desensitisation desensitisation that has come with social media because social media, the internet is like the wild west. it's unbridled. it's free, and anything goes. and because of that, on policing that exists, it's almost like when the cat's away, the mice will play where your parents are not watching, when the grownups are not watching, you can do whatever you want to do. and the more you do that and get away with it, you keep pushing the boundaries. that's human nature. so when you look at where social media is today, you have situations where people stream themselves committing crimes and they get thousands of people watching and clicking and liking and

following them and going viral. >> that then you just can't police that amount of constant information going because it's multiple people streaming and multiple people streaming and multiple times in different places. >> you can't i mean, you have to get to if someone wrote a tweet and said something like, i don't want migrants at the end of my road, you can bet your bottom dollar they'd be able to find that among the sea of social media posts. so why not this? there's probably hundreds of thousands of other people tweeting the same thing that aren't being caught in the net, but that's the whole point of it. they feel like anything goes. and when you actually think of the literal wild west and how savage it was, that's the reflection of what's going on now in social media. and young people are finding that i can live according to my own rules without consequence. i can do things with impunity, and thatis do things with impunity, and that is a drug. and if i do it and it gets me attention, attention is the most valuable commodity today. and people who hone it, who harness it and control it feel like they have power . power. >> it's sad. but there are other trends, though. >> there are other. i mean, you

know, i agree. i agree with much of what you're saying. i mean, john hiatt's book the anxious generation, you know, he's arguing that we've got two things colliding. you've got this explosion of social media, which is giving kids access to stuff outside of the household and the family. stuff outside of the household and the family . but you've also and the family. but you've also got this mental health epidemic , got this mental health epidemic, particularly among young women. and listening to you describe the story, michelle made me think of some of the cases in places like toronto, where you've had so—called swarming, where gangs of kids will swarm around a homeless person or whatever, and basically attack them and assault them. oh, it makes me feel ill on the streets. it's a sort of lord of the lord of the flies. and i think, you know, again, we've got an abdication. abdication of aduu got an abdication. abdication of adult responsibility. where are the parents? you know, do you agree with people like john haig, miriam cates and others who are saying, actually, we should be banning all smartphones among children until the age of 16 or 17? i'm probably in favour of that looking at the evidence on it. but what is clear, michel, is the social contract. as we've set it up , isn't working right.

set it up, isn't working right. it's not working for kids and it's not working for parents, andifs it's not working for parents, and it's not working for these people who are being assaulted. >> see, the flaw in the plan is anyone can have a child these days. but i do think like parents rights are being relegated more and more to the side where you're getting to a point where even some parents, some not all are saying they're kind of leaving their kids to raise themselves, thinking that giving my child autonomy is good parenting, where i just don't think it is. i think that's lazy because anyone can be a parent, but i think to be a good parent, it really takes time. you have to. it doesn't matter how much money you've got or whatever, it's your time. you've got to invest your time. you talk about social media and all the rest of it. your parents, i think parents and grandparents, whoever's got the children, you've got to look at the phones. you've got to look at the kids telephones and see what it is they're doing. another story caught my eye as well. a 12 year old boy, he was up in court involved in the rioting. get this everybody. where was his mum? so this kid is 12. his mam is on holiday in a beefer. she's flown out to a beefer the day before. apparently her 12

year old is in court for rioting. i just think. come on. i mean, if you're going to have these kids, which is of course everyone's free choice, you do actually have to put a bit of graft into this. it's not always easy. it takes time and effort. but i mean, come on guys, we do actually have to parent our own children. don't we? look, after the break i want to talk to you about council tax because there's so much in the line of vision now for labour when it comes to cut, cut cuts. what about these single parent discounts then? sorry single person discounts on council tax. is this the next thing to be adjusted? your thoughts? see you in

hi there michelle dewberry mike goodwin andrzej duda da silva tools seven g data, which is telling me in the break a story about some singer. i can't

remember the name now and she is all over social media and her perspective on the world is if it didn't, if it doesn't happen on social media, it's not happening. full stop. i mean, how sad it's actually, i bet it is actually quite challenging to be a very young person growing up in all of this. the very best way to sort it all out, if you ask me, just take the phones off them, stop them using social media. i think you'd solve some of the problems overnight anyway. look, councils, they are now lobbying, lobbying rachel reeves, apparently to scrap a council tax exemption for people living on their own. angela raynen living on their own. angela rayner, she has refused to commit to keeping the discount . commit to keeping the discount. matt goodwin your thoughts so here's a prediction. >> i think this is going to come to be known as the widow tax . to be known as the widow tax. and the reason that i say that is it's going to, i think, hit widows really hard. if you're living alone and you're not going to get the single person discount, the council tax discount, the council tax discount, i used to get that when i was living alone as a young professional in manchester, and you pay less council tax than you do if

you're in a couple. i mean, it's going to hit people hard and it's kind of interesting, isn't it? you know, labour, the foot is off the brake when it comes to immigration. so we've got more demand for housing, house pnces more demand for housing, house prices going up, rents going up. we have got no long term vision around that in the country. and now we've got another tax being put on people simply because they happen to live alone . and they happen to live alone. and that inevitably will hit. i think , widows and single think, widows and single pensioners very hard indeed, coming on top of the winter. fuel tax as well, literally as you started talking, no word of a lie. >> it was happening real time. you were talking a lady called sue was getting in touch saying, michelle, it might be worth thinking that so many single people are also pensioners, as she says she is. she says she is a widow and this would help her. and she calls it another sneaky attack on pensioners. so you and matt, your brains are so aligned it's magic. >> it's sue who gave me the idea. >> actually, it's sue, your mum that planted the seed. told you to say it on telly. >> so you mentioned it to me on

twitter. >> oh. was it. oh, what do you think to it all, >> yeah, i think i can't actually disagree because it's a case of, you know, that phenomenon that people talk about squeezing the middle, you refuse to tax the very wealthy, you cannot tax the very poor. so all the strain goes on the middle. in this case, even though you've said that it's going to be painful decisions that have to be made with this budget, that it's you, it's necessary. that's understandable. when you want change, you've got to find the money. the money's got to come from somewhere. but when you put people who should be your priority for protection in danger because you happen to have a blind spot with this policy, you have to rethink it . policy, you have to rethink it. and what you said, i actually didn't even think about when you said the widowmaker. it's like, for instance , women who have you for instance, women who have you have a home that you had with your spouse. he's passed away. so now your your property lies within a bracket. you're now going to functionally have to pay going to functionally have to pay even more money, even though you're sustaining that, that cost singularly. that's unfair. that's something they shouldn't have to go through. >> i don't i don't want to make it personal, but there's someone

in my in my family who was already rocked by the winter fuel increase under labour because it's not what you expect. if you're a if you're a struggling pensioner, it's not what you expect from a labour government. and now that same person will potentially be hit by losing the financial benefit that comes with the council tax reduction. so when you put it all on top, it's actually having quite a substantial impact upon that person's monthly income. and i think, you know, that's where labour are going to if they're not careful, you know, people are going to be looking at angela rayner getting drunk at angela rayner getting drunk at nightclubs in ibiza that cost, you know, ,200 to get into and ,30 a drink. and comparing and ,30 a drink. and comparing and contrasting with the experience of these pensioners struggling to get by from the point of like the politics of optics, labour is in a dangerous position because the tenants that hold the image of what the labour party represents, you're chipping away at that. >> absolutely. because these are people who have held the labour party in a kind of esteem that was established by historical positions you have held. you are breaking those down. now. if you lose a base that doesn't believe

in you, you will end up like the conservatives. >> gary, one of my viewers, he's come up with an idea, he says, rather than taking the single person discount away, they should be looking at increasing the tax for households that have multiple adults living there. oh, gary , you'll divide opinions oh, gary, you'll divide opinions at home on that one. one of my viewers has got in touch talking about that first topic about pride in britain and britishness and all the rest of it, he says, how come nobody ever focuses on the kind of ebbing away at christianity in this country ? christianity in this country? that conversation, he says, neven that conversation, he says, never, ever seems to happen. i think that's quite interesting. many of you not happy with the pensioners, the impacts that the pensioners, the impacts that the pensioners will be feeling from some of these cuts. there's a picture going around on social media. it's a dinghy full of pensioners, and it's a bit of a joke saying that at this rate you're going to have a dinghies full of pensioners trying to arrive on the shores of britain to be put up in hotels this winter to try and stay warm. i mean, i do realise it's pretty

much borderline illegal to laugh at things these days, but it did make me smile. but then it also made me sad because i really do worry for a lot of pensioners as the cold weather does draw in. keep your thoughts coming in on all of that. but for now, that's all of that. but for now, that's all i've got time for. thanks to my panel. thanks to you at home. nigel farage is up next night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on gb news . news. >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news. weather update brought to you from the met office. through tonight there will be a few showers but for many of us, clear skies and it will turn quite chilly across northern areas, but through the rest of this evening a weather front still to push south and eastwards through parts of scotland, northern ireland into areas of northern england and wales. so cloudy skies will start to develop here through this evening. a risk of some showers across northwestern england, wales and the southwest. the showers, though moving away from the south and east, so we'll turn drier for many of us overnight tonight,

but still a few showers lingering on across parts of western scotland in particular. but clearer skies inland will allow temperatures to fall away to 2 or 3 degrees. in rural scotland, a fresher night than last night as well. across southern areas of england too. but despite the chilly start, it will be a bright start for northern and western areas of scotland , particularly across scotland, particularly across the highlands and the islands in the highlands and the islands in the west. in the east, though, the west. in the east, though, the risk of showers as well as in the southwest, some of these showers could turn quite heavy, particularly across northern ireland. throughout the middle part of wednesday there's a few risk of a few showers across central areas of england, too, but still some sunny spells around and wednesday will be a day of sunshine and showers, generally across the uk. any in any sunshine it won't feel too bad the winds are fairly light after the chillier start. temperatures aren't going to quite reach as high as they have donein quite reach as high as they have done in the past few days, but it will feel pleasant enough with those lighter winds. showers, though, could turn quite heavy , with a risk of hail quite heavy, with a risk of hail and thunder across parts of

northern ireland and western scotland. but it's across the south and east where we see the heaviest rain develop through wednesday evening that will likely linger into thursday morning. so is a rain warning in force through rush hour on thursday across many southern areas of england and parts of south wales as well. so take a look at our website for more information on that. but looking ahead to the weekend, it looks like it will turn much drier and warmer across northern areas, with rain lingering across more southern areas. have a good evening, bye bye. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> good evening. as the government suspends some arms exports to israel, i asked the question can israel still be

considered as an ally and pride in britain's history is collapsing, especially among young people? is this all because of a left wing educational establishment? i rather fear that it is. it looks like the government may well be forced into a vote on the cutting of the winter fuel allowance . what, why and how allowance. what, why and how were they trying to deny that in the first place? before all of that, and some furious debate, let's get the news with will hollis . hollis. >> thank you. nigel your news updates at 7:00. french prosecutors have opened an investigation into the deaths of 12 migrants in the channel. dozens more were on board when a boat capsized in northern france, with some 50 rescued by the coastguard it's believed that ten of the 12 are women with most of the migrants on board from eritrea . the border board from eritrea. the border and security minister angela

eagle , said that the