of labour, that. also speaking of labour, there's rumours now that angela rayner will scrap the right to buy scheme should she.7 also buy scheme should she? also i want to talk about pensions and pensioners in this country. state pension is costing more and more. many people are saying is it time to scrap the triple lock? i personally absolutely do not think it is. what do you think? and priti patel out. that surprised me. did it surprise you? and is it the right move forward . all of that and more. forward. all of that and more. i've got a great. well i say great. you won't believe your eyes when i show you the video of shoplifting. i thought i'd seen it all, but clearly i haven't. look, before we get into all of that, let's cross for 6:00 news headlines . for 6:00 news headlines. >> good evening from the gb newsroom. it'sjust >> good evening from the gb newsroom. it's just gone 6:00. your top story this hour, the

grenfell tower fire, which killed 72 people, was the result of decades of failure. a long awaited report has found . over awaited report has found. over almost 1700 pages, the grenfell report reveals how missed opportunities by the government building companies, contractors and council staff turned grenfell into a death trap. families and survivors of the deadly blaze seven years ago say today's final damning report shows they were failed by calculated dishonesty and greed. met police deputy assistant commissioner spoke a short while ago , emphasising the scale of ago, emphasising the scale of the investigation. >> while criminal investigation into the grenfell tower tragedy is one of the most largest and complex investigation the met police has ever undertaken . our police has ever undertaken. our investigation started in june 2017 and continues to this day. ihave 2017 and continues to this day. i have a team of 180 investigators working on this full time, plus many others who support the investigation , support the investigation, particularly expert witnesses.

it is hugely complex. we've seized over 150 million documents. the interconnectedness of the different companies, the different companies, the different individuals and their actions is something we need to untangle now. >> rishi sunak who is now the leader of the opposition, has attacked labour's move to axe the winter fuel allowance for millions of pensioners. he faced off with sir keir starmer at the first prime minister's questions since parliament returned from summer recess. the conservative leader accused the prime minister of taking money from low income pensioners and ploughing it into inflation busting pay rises for union workers . workers. >> it was his decision and his decision alone, to award a train driver on £65,000, a pay rise of almost £10,000, and it was also his decision that a pensioner living on just £13,000 will have their winter fuel allowance removed . so can the prime

removed. so can the prime minister explain to britain's low income pensioners why he has taken money away from them, whilst at the same time giving more money to highly paid train drivers ? drivers? >> however, prime minister sir keir starmer defended his decision to cut winter fuel payments , saying it's essential payments, saying it's essential to stabilise the economy . to stabilise the economy. >> we've had to take tough decisions to stabilise the economy and repair the damage , economy and repair the damage, including targeting winter fuel payments whilst protecting pensioners. 800,000 pensioners are not taking up pension credit. we intend to turn that around. we are going to align housing benefit and pension credit, something the previous government deferred year after year after year. and because of our commitment to the triple lock , pensioners are projected lock, pensioners are projected to increase by over £1,000 in the next five years. >> now , dame priti patel has >> now, dame priti patel has

become the first tory mp to be voted out of the party's leadership contest, with only 14 votes from 121 tory mps. meanwhile robert jenrick came top of the ballot with 28 votes. mps cast their opening votes this afternoon, reducing the number of candidates from 6 to 5. the contenders now include james cleverly, robert jenrick, tom tugendhat , mel stride and tom tugendhat, mel stride and kemi badenoch . now it's kemi badenoch. now it's understood two people have died and four have been injured after and four have been injured after a shooting at a high school in georgia in the us. these are pictures of apalachee high school in barrow county, which was put on lockdown this morning after reports of gunfire there. georgia state police say one person is in custody after the shooting, and the white house has now been briefed on the incident . the family of an eight incident. the family of an eight year old man who died after being assaulted in a park have said. our hearts have been completely broken. bhim koli was

attacked while walking his dog in franklin park, braunstone town, near leicester, on sunday and later died in hospital. four of the five children arrested over the murder have been released without charge. a 14 year old boy remains in police custody as investigations continue. the group, aged between 12 and 14, were initially arrested on suspicion of murder after a post—mortem revealed koli died from a neck injury. police are urging anyone with information about the attack to come forward , and attack to come forward, and oasis have two new dates for their wembley 2025 tour, after their wembley 2025 tour, after their tour sold out over the weekend. the band said tickets will be sold by a staggered, invitation only ballot process . invitation only ballot process. applications to join the ballot will be opened first to the many uk fans who were unsuccessful in the initial sale, with ticketmaster, and more details will follow . those are the will follow. those are the latest gb news headlines for now. i'm sophia wenzler more in

an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you until 7:00 tonight alongside me and my panel. i've not seen him for a while. i've just asked him if he'd done anything wrong and apparently he didn't. quentin letts, the parliamentary, let me back later at the daily mail. yeah, we have we've let him back in. we'll judge his performance by 7:00 and decide whether he's allowed back in again. also, my wednesday regular. now you are becoming our ambassador. the co—founder of novara media. welcome to both of you, you know the drill, don't you? on dewbs& co, it's not just about us. it's very much about you guys as well. you can get in touch with me all the usual ways. you can email me at gb views gb news.

com. you can go to gbnews.com/yoursay that's not an email address, by the way. many people get in touch and say you've got to bounce back. it's not an email address, it's a website. you can go on there, you can talk to me and each other. what a treat. and you can also, of course, tweet or text me. but wherever you are, you're very, very welcome tonight. there's lots i want to talk to you about this evening, but of course, i must start with the horrendous findings of the report that's been released today relating to the grenfell tragedy. absolutely horrendous situation. 72 deaths, essentially avoidable . i would essentially avoidable. i would argue that i don't think anybody comes out of this. well, whether it's central government, local government, whether it's the organisations involved , organisations involved, everybody, in my humble opinion, comes off pretty badly. >> social murder. >> social murder. >> that's the phrase that john mcdonnell, labour mp, used in the house of commons today, the house of commons today was a strange place. it was very, statesmanlike, i suppose you could say it was very sombre and

all that you'd expect. but for me it really lacked anger. and i was glad that that john mcdonnell talked about social murder. jeremy corbyn was quite good. diane abbott was okay. but on the whole, the house of commons to me was far too tame. and there's a reason for that. perhaps it's seven years. this is seven years. it's taken for this report to happen. and i think £170 million. and there was none of the rawness. do you remember back in 2017 when this terrible event happened? there was a tremendous rawness in the commons that day and in the days afterwards, and all that sort of sense of danger had gone. and i just got a feeling today that the elite, the establishment , the elite, the establishment, sort of looking after itself, making sure that nobody is fingered too much for any personal blame in this. i'd have liked the commons to be much more angry today about the dreadfulness of what has gone on. >> i wonder if one of the reasons that the anger is lacking in your, experience of

being there today is because so many people must look in the mirror and think, i can't really , mirror and think, i can't really, who can i get angry at? because we have known or it's been known? should i say alarm bells have been ringing, concerns have been raised for decades. we've had goodness knows how many governments since then. i've lost count of the prime ministers. we've had since then. this has spanned all different parties. let's have a list of the housing ministers since 1991, for instance, which is when there was a terrible fire of this type in 1991. >> and governments since then have done nothing. let's have a list of the permanent secretaries in charge of the civil service responsible for housing. let's have a real accountability in the elite . accountability in the elite. instead, they're going to go after a few of the private companies, quite rightly, that have been behaving badly on this. and some of the inspectors who have not been telling the truth . but i've just got truth. but i've just got a feeling in the comments today, i'm sorry to sort of intrude on what should have been a very statesmanlike and sombre occasion, but there was just something a little bit off about, there was a bit of

backside covering going on, i felt. >> what do you think to this at home? i'm really, really interested in a question. i'll make this really simple. do you live in a property that's got potentially unsafe cladding? do you live in a high rise building? do you feel safe at the moment? do you feel reassured by what you see and what you hear, and do you trust actually , that a horrendous actually, that a horrendous tragedy like this will never happen again? get in touch and let me know your thoughts. but for now, let me cross live to laboun for now, let me cross live to labour, housing and communities minister rushanara ali. good evening to you. social murder. that's one of the phrases we've heard this regarded as today. do you agree with that? that description . description. >> look, the description that sir martin used in his report is that this was wholly avoidable. and what we need to do is learn the lessons and make sure that we respond to the recommendations. the prime

minister has made a commitment that we will respond to those recommendations within six months. >> but we've known we've had alarm bells ringing now for almost three decades about these kind of incidents. we've had a variety of different governments in place. tory, labour coalitions have lost count of the amount of prime ministers so it's not happening, is it? these learning lessons ? learning lessons? >> the report sets out that successive governments have failed to provide the protection and tackle this issue. and so what's absolutely crucial is that we make sure that buildings that we make sure that buildings that are unsafe, the remediation work happens speedily. it hasn't happened fast enough enough. and, you know, you make a really important point about the fact that people are living in unsafe buildings and they need these buildings and they need these buildings to be remediated. and, you know, as an mp who

represents a constituency with cladded buildings , i have spent cladded buildings, i have spent years campaigning, as many others have , to make sure this others have, to make sure this happens and what we want to do is ensure that we speed up the remediation work. money is being made available for that work to be done , and it's on the be done, and it's on the building owners to do that work . building owners to do that work. >> do you trust that they will? >> do you trust that they will? >> well, there are already, powers that can be used. the regulator has been in place now that was part of the legislation that was part of the legislation that was part of the legislation that was introduced under the last government. we supported the legislation. what we will do is consider the recommendations that have been , have been that have been, have been published today. we will look at what else we can do to speed up action. the prime minister has already made a commitment to ensure that we take action. and of course, you know, there are

existing powers that can be used and we are also making sure that the resources are being made available and where action is not taken , we will want answers not taken, we will want answers and we will hold those, owners who are not doing the work to account to make sure they get the job done. it's really important, as you pointed out, people expect and have the right to live safely in their homes. >> so what would you say then to anyone watching this conversation tonight that absolutely do not feel safe and yet again tonight, going to bed frightened about cladding that they've got on their property , they've got on their property, frightened about plans in place in their high rise and so on and so forth. what would you say to those people to reassure them? >> well, look, we have to take action to speed up the remediation work. what's clear as it hasn't happened fast

enough, and one of the first things that the deputy prime minister made clear is that we will do all we can to speed up that work and remediation so that work and remediation so that people can live safely in their homes and going forward, we will look at the recommendations and respond as quickly as possible. we will use existing powers. we will ensure that the government provides the support that it can to get that work done, so that people can live safely in their homes . live safely in their homes. >> yeah, i mean, we talk about safety, which you're quite right, to bring back. you are a minister then that is responsible for building safety. what's your expertise in that sector ? sector? >> well, look, look, i have campaigned on these issues long before. they're ever since i've been an mp. in fact , because the been an mp. in fact, because the voices of residents have often been left out and, you know ,

been left out and, you know, they're often the ones who see they're often the ones who see the problems early on. and what we've seen is that their voices haven't been central enough. and one of the points that was made is about the deregulation and we for me, what's been really important is highlighting this. when i served on the housing and communities select committee many years ago, in fact , before many years ago, in fact, before the grenfell tower disaster, i raised the concerns that residents were raising with me in my constituency about the fact that the safety issues they were raising on repairs and maintenance, which can then become bigger issues, were not being tackled and i have been a long time campaigner on these issues, on building safety, on remediation. i think i applaud that, you know, i'm determined to ensure i'm determined to make sure that we use the powers that

this government has. we work across party wherever possible to ensure that we address the safety concerns that people have. >> yeah, and i applaud all the work that you're doing there. i think it's really important that people's voices and concerns are listened to, and i applaud that. but my specific question was, if you're a minister that's responsible for building safety, that sounds quite technical to me as a layperson. so i'm just i'm just pondering and trying to understand your expertise specifically when it comes to building safety. if that's your remit . remit. >> well, we have we have access to experts as government ministers. in terms of regulators, i'm asking you about your experience, advice and that is and as i've set out to you, i have worked on these issues for many years as a as an mp on select committees and as ministers , as elected ministers, as elected representatives . we all, of representatives. we all, of course, draw on the expertise of

other institutions and other players and the regulator has a central role in providing the advice and giving input to decision making . that is, that decision making. that is, that is part of our system . is part of our system. >> okay. and also as well, financially, we're talking about resources that we all know that resources that we all know that resources are very tight at the moment and a figure, a report came out a few days ago actually, that puts a cost £340 million on preserving the grenfell sites and building a memorial. your thoughts on that ? memorial. your thoughts on that? >> well, look, the last government made a commitment and we support that commitment to make sure that there's a lasting memorial in memory of all those who died in the grenfell fire tragedy. we are absolutely committed to that and committed to making sure that their voices are brought in and they play a

leading role in making sure that there is a lasting memorial. >> thank you very much. that's rushanara ali, labour, housing and communities minister to you. aaron bastani, your thoughts on all of this. >> it's obviously deeply upsetting the point that rushanara ali made a moment ago about tenants being best placed to determine where there are problems is absolutely true. in the case of grenfell, there were tenants groups trying to reach out to local government, in particular the council. council leadership, etc. council offices for people watching or listening . for people watching or listening. they're not elected, but they work on the behalf of the council repeatedly saying that the building wasn't safe, bringing all kinds of issues up, for instance, fire exits not being appropriate for a building of that size, and scale. they were ignored repeatedly. and of course, people make the assertion that was because of who they were working class people and generally quite affluent part of london. and i think there's a great deal of truth to that. i also have to

say the immediate response to the tragedy in 2017 by local and national government was appalling. it was utterly appalling. it was utterly appalling. people were in temporary accommodation for a very, very long time. you would think when you've got the national spotlight on something like this, that's when government brings its a game. thatis government brings its a game. that is not what happened . that is not what happened. >> and i mean, there's so many i mean actually today, in fact, there was another fire at a high rise. i mean, it must be absolutely terrifying to be in a high rise environment knowing that there is a fire being terrified out of your wits. you're getting conflicting information. do you stay or do you go ? what do you do? the you go? what do you do? the terror that these people must feel. and i think it is just appalling that there is. i mean, even the fact that there is such a thing as unsafe cladding, why does such a thing even exist in the first place? one of the things that i thought was quite interesting was the building research establishment, the brc. there's much criticism of the fact that that was privatised in 1997, and many people are

basically saying that there has been too much privatisation in some of these processes , and some of these processes, and it's corporate greed essentially, that's led to some of this. what do you think? >> well, that's what the report says. and i have no doubt that thatis says. and i have no doubt that that is true. but there's also there was also accusations from there was also accusations from the report or findings from the report, rather that the fire bngade report, rather that the fire brigade was not up to scratch ehhen brigade was not up to scratch either. and, you know, we've always looked up to the fire brigade, haven't we? we've always been told that the london fire brigade is the best. well, it doesn't seem it was. i would have liked a bit more urgency from that minister. i thought she was a bit waffly, and there's been this terrible inertia throughout the establishment and in officialdom and in authority. and there's a labour mp today, clive efford, stood up in the commons and said, hang on, this is just a little bit there are echoes here of hillsborough, of the post office horizon scandal, of the blood contamination scandal and of other scandals where the system has been so bloody minded

and has refused to listen to people, to the public and the pubuc people, to the public and the public saying, look, this is a real problem. and the people in the ministry and in the department and in the council say, oh no, no, don't worry, we've got this all under control and they haven't. so there's a real sense, i think, that this country's official class has really let the side down. >> i mean, you talk about hillsborough as well. i remember, eric pickles when he was talking, i think it was in some kind of select committee or something. and he was talking about the 96 people that had died in grenfell, and he got a lot of criticism then because people were saying, you're basically conflating hillsborough with grenfell. you're lacking empathy. people were saying about, you know, i think he made some kind of comments along the lines of, you know, i'm quite busy. we need to get to the point on the questions and all the rest of it. and there is this whole criticism of a lack of empathy. do you think that's unfair or fair ? fair? >> you know, i think the people

at the heart of this, the people who've struggled through this, they've lost people or they've survived, this appalling event. i think they don't really necessarily want empathy or sympathy. i think they want action. i think they want results. but to your point, they're getting neither, and often politicians are generally quite good at sugarcoating things when they've done a very poor job, but they haven't in this instance. and i think the problem really is that so many people are to blame for what's happened. you know, when everyone's to blame, no one's to blame. i think if it had just fallen a particular layer of individuals, i think there would have been a lot more anger today in the commons than there was. i think social media is a very good way of describing it, precisely because so many different layers the bureaucratic state, elected officials, both local and national building contractors , national building contractors, etc. so many people are to blame here. so many people refuse to listen. >> david, one of my viewers, has said he's sick of everyone basically pointing the finger at all of the building industry. he says he's worked in that industry for 55 years, and he's always been above board and done

everything to the specs and so on and so forth. and he feels that his industry is now becoming the scapegoat. well, i can tell you, little better than crooks and killers. that was a direct quote from some of the lawyers within, the investigation that they pointed the finger at some of those corporations that were actually involved. so certainly nobody would suggest that all builders are behaving in ways that they shouldn't be. but, i mean, there is certainly very strong questions to be answered by some of these corporations, that's for sure. coming up after the break. right. to buy, do you think then it's should it be right that you can do that? or is it time we scrap that scheme? would you support that? i also want to talk to you about pensions. are you a pensioner, triple lock coming under focus again. is it time to scrap it? or i could hear you shouting already. i'll see you in

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you until 7:00. quentin letts, the parliamentary sketchwriter at the daily mail, and aaron bastani, the co—founder of novara media, remain alongside me. lots of you are raising concerns and questions about why all of this with grenfell is taking so long. yeah, exactly. well, yeah, because we've had years of the investigation. we've now got a much longer time frame to wait before the met police conclude. then you're going to have an even longer time frame again for the cps to look at it and decide whether or not they can press charges and so on and so forth. if you have the relative of one of these people, i mean, we've seen all of these lots of relatives speaking out today. i mean, you'd be absolutely furious, but where do you point your fury? where do you point it? >> i think , i don't know, i'm >> i think, i don't know, i'm not not, not in the position of being one of those unfortunate relations, but i suspect that all they would want would be to

have the truth found out and to have the truth found out and to have a sure verdict. well, they've got some of that today. but as far as prosecutions taking another two years, what on earth is going on? and it just seems to me that this is the again, it's the establishment trying to tame the anger by delaying things and also lawyers making a lot of money that this inquiry has cost. it's at £170 million. well, most of that will have gone to lawyers. >> one of my viewers has got in touch saying he's a landlord and he's got a building with the same cladding. he said it's an absolute nightmare. he says he can barely remortgage it, can't sell it. he's got a tenant in there that's not happy either. he says the whole thing is pathetic and insulting the way that they are dealing with grenfell. keep your thoughts coming in. look right to by angela rayner i suspect you'll all remember that she didn't do too badly actually, when she got rid of her right to buy scheme, so obviously she was pretty keen on the scheme. but now there's rumours abound that apparently she might be scrapping that scheme . what do you reckon to

scheme. what do you reckon to that, quentin? >> wonderful, blatant hypocrisy from angela rayner. and she'll get away with it because she's a she's a ballsy sort and you know, we she's the sort of female version of john prescott and slightly better than prescott actually in some ways. >> but she can dance better than him, i'd imagine. sorry, i think she can certainly dance better. >> yeah, but as far as the policy goes, right to buy was brought in by mrs. thatcher undoubtedly as an ideological move, but then it turned out to be one of those ideological things that was terribly popular. and that makes it difficult to use ideology to get rid of it, because uk ideology against ideology, that's fine. that's politics. but when something is popular, it's a it's a brave move politically to get rid of it. so that i think makes it tncky it. so that i think makes it tricky territory for the labour party, not just because of , party, not just because of, angela rayner's hypocrisy, but because, you know, people actually quite like the right to buy. >> well, i don't know if angela rayner has got a right hook like john prescott, but yeah, she probably is a better dancer. bet she has, but it's not

impossible, on the right to buy it. look, it would be great if she paid back the discount. she got on that £79,000 house. i don't think she will, but that would be an amazing gesture if she said that. that would be really, really. i think really cool. >> but why? why would she do that? >> well, she's a politician. politicians make gestures. if she said, you know what, now i've got the cash to pay it back and i'm getting rid of this scheme. i want to look coherent politically, intellectually. that's what i'm going to do. but anyway, park that for a moment. >> she now gets a free country house, doesn't she? >> look, whatever your position on right to buy, the point is we don't really have many houses left to sell. and this is now really a position that's held by councils across the country who are broke. and the thing is, let me provide something of an analogy. imagine you were bankrupt. you were £2,000 overdrawn. you'd maxed all your credit cards, but then you decide to go down the pub and say, you know what, lads? tonight the drinks are on me. that's the equivalent of councils giving these massive discounts or very large discounts or very large discounts on council properties being sold in london. very, very

large discounts more than £100,000. sometimes i believe that's the equivalent. you've got no money, but you're selling these very valuable assets at below market rates. it makes no sense. and i don't think anybody on the left or the right should be arguing for it. we can park those debates from the 1980s, the 1990s. the world we're in today is very, very different. if we want cheap housing. and i think everybody in politics wants cheap housing. i like i like home ownership. i think that's that's a question of supply. we need more housing. we need to look at how we can address that. but right to buy is a different issue. >> so if we had a scenario there where it was one in, one out. so any time we discounted a sale right to buy. and then there was this promise that was actually delivered that an equivalent house would be built. so there was no supply issue. hypothetically, would you support it then? >> still no, because i don't. personally, i think the market is actually quite good at building houses. i don't the idea that councils would have to build homes. i just think that's generally not something i'd be very keen on. you could argue maybe for a publicly owned

national housebuilder, but the idea that each council would procure that stuff. i'm not, i'm not, i'm not a huge fan of that generally, if they want to incrementally build their own sort of council portfolio, that's something else . but doing that's something else. but doing what you're doing, i don't think it makes sense economically, and of course, the system as it stands is the money doesn't doesn't stay local. it goes to national government. so if you have an asset and you sell it below market rates, why would you then build a replacement asset, which you have to pay market rates for the economics of it? don't really make much sense. >> do you think that we've got it about right in terms of eligibility for some of these council houses, social housing? i always remember that union boss. and as i say, i can remember him. i've forgotten his name, but yeah. and he if my memory serves me right and i'm testing it now and i am getting on a bit, wasn't he on a six figure salary? and he still lived in a council house? >> i don't know about his salary. he probably his whole package was probably bordering on six figures. yeah, pension etc. he probably would have been on like £80,000 salary. >> you see, when i think about

that, and i'm using him as an example only because it always sticks in my mind and i think is that the kind of package level of financially that you should be able to get social housing, council housing or whatever, because there's a lot of people that don't earn a fraction of that don't earn a fraction of that that absolutely could not afford to privately rent or anything like that. >> sure. there's a there's a few points here and of course, similar arguments have been raised with regards to apsana begum, who's an mp in east london. i mean, i think with mps it's slightly different because you don't really have that kind ofjob you don't really have that kind of job security, you know, there might be an election in two years and you lose your job and you don't have that kind of income anymore. so i think with mps it's slightly different with a trade union leader or that mp, then they'll be on about 90. >> i've lost track now 99. is it 94, 95, 91? yeah. i mean just shy of 100 grand. and you're getting a house provided, you know, they could lose their seat in a few years. >> so i don't know. i don't know about that. but what i would say is, i mean, on the face of it, somebody on that kind of income, like you say, generally wouldn't be getting council housing if

they applied for it there. and then the argument that somebody like apsana begum would make, or bob crow is that i've been raised in this home. i deserve to stay in this home. if somebody if somebody's got roots in an area and they've lived somewhere for a very long time, i see the argument. but i can also see your point, particularly in london, given the scale of the housing crisis. yeah, it's unbelievable. >> but to own your own home is tremendous, liberating thing. >> okay. you have to take responsibility for it as well. and that was one of the reasons this policy was so successful, because people were liberated, and they also felt that they had to look after the house better. and housing stock was improved by the right to buy policy. i don't really understand why councils have to be in the landlord business, and if you liberated them from from that duty, then you could close council housing departments and save the councils a lot of money that way and allow the housing, the whole housing sector to be done privately. i'd have thought that was perfect. it's not as if the houses go away anywhere. the houses are still there. this theory that housing stock is reduced by private landlords taking over is just not true.

>> i mean, so in response to that, in the 20th century, we had two housing booms. right now the right will generally point to the 1930s. millions of these lovely big houses built in the suburbs. gorgeous. my dad lives in a place like that in bournemouth. lovely. they were almost all built by the market, all built for profit in the 60s. 70s we had a different kind of model, which was lots of private houses being built, but also lots of council houses being built. and so it depends what your ideological lenses are. if you're saying, somebody from the left, they'll often go, well, we need to do what we did in the 60s and 70s. somebody on the right will say, we need to do what we did in the 1930s. i mean, they're probably both, right? right. it depends what kind of what kind of regulatory framework you've got, what are the what are the blockages right now? it seems that the private sector cannot build like the 19305. sector cannot build like the 1930s. and of course, it's a big debate as to why that's the case. >> brian, he's got in touch and he says the right to buy was margaret thatcher's worst mistake ever. he says harsh words. i mean, many people might be queuing up to point out a few

more mistakes. i would hazard a guess at watching at home, but you can tell me whether or not you can tell me whether or not you agree with brian. after the break, i want to talk to you about state pension. also the triple lock as well. do we still need to retain it? and i'm also going to show you a shoplifting video. i honestly doing this job thought i'd seen it all, but no, haven't. i'll see in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till seven. quentin letts and aaron bastani remain alongside me. i'll talk about pensions in just a second, but look at this video. it caught my eye today and i thought, i can't let my show go by without showing it to you guys at home. watch. look at this. i'll describe it on the radio. i'll describe it on the radio. i'll describe it on the radio. i'll describe it if you're listening on the radio. so it's a shop. you've got a gang of masked hooded men and they go into this shop like they own the place.

they jump over the counter and you won't believe it if you're listening on the radio. when i tell you what they brought with them, they are brought with them a wheelie bin. yes, you heard that right. a blue one, which i think is glass recycling. so at least they've got the right kind of wheelie bin because they then proceed to fill it with booze with cigarettes, with anything. they quite frankly feel like taking and off they wheel it. they've got machetes in their hand and it blew me away. our bastani, i think how brazen must you be? i mean, look at him. he's got a machete , at the size he's got a machete, at the size of, i don't know what in his arm, but how brazen must you be to know? you know what? i can do this. i can just do this and get away with it. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> so far, they might yet get caught, but i can't. >> i mean, i can't even maybe i'm just getting old. quentin but he never used to be like this. >> we never used to be your regret. really? you're correct there, michelle. >> wheelie bins behind counters ,

machetes. >> yeah. brazen. >> yeah. brazen. >> absolutely. taking the mick. and, you know, let's hope they get caught. >> i'm appalled, ladies and gents, by what society is becoming. >> honestly, i should say michelle and i agree with you. that isn't that isn't, you know, something we've seen for decades. but in the 80s and 90s, you did have lots of car radios being stolen, lots of handbags and cars being stolen. i remember i remember being a primary school kid and my mum's bag being stolen twice in one yeah bag being stolen twice in one year. so theft isn't new. but i agree with you. the scale of that and the fact that they're taking their time brazier rushing. >> i pinched a lettuce by mistake. the other day. excuse me, i pinched a lettuce by mistake. i realised when i got to my car that i had neglected a lettuce at the bottom of my push trolley. >> and then did you go back and pay >> and then did you go back and pay for said lettuce? i didn't, did you put some fake eyes on it and pretend it was liz truss and start stroking it? what did you do with the lettuce? >> i just stuck it in. i suppose i should have, i should have fessed up, but i mean, i think

you could have admitted to criminal behaviour live on national television. well, it was inadvertent. >> that could have been an anthony worrall thompson moment, you know. >> well, what do you know? >> well, what do you know? >> i've been at a till i'd been at a till with a, checkout person. >> they love you on film. you mention about how it used to be actually. and i've just reminded myself of another incident many years ago. one of my little brothers in hull was in a car accident and he got wedged. this is a true story, everybody. he got wedged in the back of a car. the car was wrapped around a tree. wow. somebody stole the car radio, as you say. but also no endemic, no word of a lie. stole the trainers off my brother. wow. so my brother was trapped in the car and they stole the trainers off him before the ambulance got there. >> vultures it is. >> vultures it is. >> i'd forgotten about that. how revolting. so maybe society is being like this for quite some time. er, anyway, look, before i set myself off having a heart attack or whatever, let me talk to you about pensions. because the treasury now expects the new full state pension to rise by £400 a year in real cash terms, of course, it's been boosted again above inflation. right. i'm going to cut to the chase

and i'll return to this topic after the break. don't worry. triple lock . is it still triple lock. is it still affordable? should it still be in place? continue your thoughts. >> i would love it to continue. i don't think it's affordable. >> aaron bastani michelle i love being popular with the audience, but i'm not going to do it here. >> he's absolutely right. we need to get rid of it. >> i'm not, i'm not. i don't think it will be got rid of either because i think it's politically impossible to dismantle it. >> but when we say it's not affordable, i mean, i get a little bit frustrated by what we deem to be affordable these days, where we deem our priorities to be because we always want people to be decent citizens, contributing to the pot of society. try and kind of provide for themselves, whatever, whatever. and i don't like pensions being referred to as a benefit because it's not a benefit. it's something that people are entitled to, especially having paid into the system. >> okay, let me rephrase it. it is not affordable. while we are giving so much away in foreign aid, it's not affordable. >> keeping an awful lot or keeping within current budgets.

>> but i would have thought that if you asked the public, is it more important to have decent pensions or to give money to away in foreign aid? i'd have thought they might say that pensions are more important. i would. that's where i would make a prioritisation of funds. >> your thoughts ? >> your thoughts? >> your thoughts? >> well, with demographic ageing we are we are literally not getting any younger as a country. you have something called the dependency ratio, which is the number of people in work and out of work that generally refers to older people. there's obviously fewer and fewer babies. it is simply not affordable. and i think you canindex not affordable. and i think you can index pensions to wages. that's quite nice. you can index it to inflation. you could even indexit it to inflation. you could even index it to both. but this this triple aspect to it of the 2.5% as well. what that meant was basically throughout the 2010s when you had low inflation and low wage growth, pensions just went up by 2.5%. so i think you have to change something, it could be a double lock. i personally think it should be indexed to inflation, >> les has got in touch saying, oh, here we go. people saying

that the state pension is unaffordable, basically she says she has such a low pension. is most difficult. she says to live on.she most difficult. she says to live on. she starts telling me about pensions in spain as well and how much they are. she's a chance would be a fine thing, i've worked for, worked and paid national insurance for 44 years, it says sandra, i want the triple lock to be protected at all costs, not for just those pensioners now, but for all future pensioners . and that's future pensioners. and that's one of the things that people do forget. it's all well and good being a young whippersnapper, saying things like get rid of the triple lock . but you one the triple lock. but you one day, my friend, and it'll go so fast in a blink of an eye, you will be that pensioner. six years time, five years time. careful what you wish for. >> look, i declare an interest . >> look, i declare an interest. >> look, i declare an interest. >> oh, i thought you meant me. no, no, no, not you. me? i was going to say i'm not that old. >> you've got 30 more years. >> you've got 30 more years. >> yeah, i've got. yeah. a few. look, after the break, i want to talk to you about tory leadership. the tory leadership

contest. that's got a bit more interesting today for the wrong reasons, though, if you ask me. priti patel out. did you see that coming? what do you, mate? also continue the conversation with you. i'll see

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry alongside me. quentin les and aaron bastani, sandy says michelle, i am a pensioner. and she just thinks. she just thinks that you are coming under massive, unfair attack. whether it's the winter fuel, whether it's the winter fuel, whether it's people constantly giving a prod, about your pensions and all the rest of it , people all the rest of it, people saying, tax. yeah. people say, michelle, why don't people that criticise the pension actually try living on the basic state pension and see how well they actually get on? they go, that could be a good experiment couldn't it? i don't see it happening there. look. former cabinet minister priti patel,

she has been given the old heave ho out of the next tory leadership race. i try very hard to be interested in this topic because i do think it's important who's going to lead the opposition? >> it's nominally important, but in likelihood the person who becomes tory leader won't become the next prime minister. it's likely to be that they're in opposition for ten years. and so it is . it is officially it is. it is officially important. yeah. were we surprised? but priti patel went out? i don't know , i well out? i don't know, i well i thought mel stride, who's a complete unknown person to most of the public, i thought he would go out instead. but pretty. although actually i found i have. i try not to meet politicians, but i have met priti patel and i find her absolutely charming 1 to 1. but she's she's never been able to build up much in the way of support for her leadership aspirations. among the tory mps. and these are the people who are voting at the moment. and they

they plainly didn't go for her. so she's out. >> well, just to give you the contrast there, priti patel was at the bottom. she got 14, robert jenrick at the top, got 28. so that's the difference in scale there. >> aaron bastani i'm curious, is kemi going to make the final two? quentin because i my very glacial understanding of these things is that she underwhelmed on that first round. but i don't know anything about this since i'm asking you. >> well, there are so few of the tory mps that the figures are pathetic, aren't they? but i think, yes, she may have underwhelmed. i think she probably will make the last two, because i think she's got a certain she's got a certain cut through. but, you know, they're all fairly minor characters at the moment. there's certainly room for them to become better known. >> well, i was going to say a lot of viewers won't be able to pick some of these people out in a line—up. quite frankly, i find it the seine would have been said about sir keir starmer two years ago. i find it interesting though. the certainty in which you predict that labour essentially are going to definitely get another term. >> well, i think that's the likelihood. do you? yeah,

definitely. with 180 seat majority, i think it's most unlikely that the conservatives will win. but you know, it's possible. of course it's possible. of course it's possible. but blimey, it's a heck of a, of an everest that they're looking at, >> what do you think. do you think it is quite a certainty. we've got a two term labour government from two tier to two term care, >> there was a poll, a few days ago coming out. i should i should work for. for you. we saw a poll recently which had labour on 30%, the tories on 26. so the tories bumping up a bit, labour down a bit. but it still gave labour a majority of something like 60. and that is the political reality of the situation the lib dems have eaten. i think, quasi permanently into a big chunk of the tory vote in the south. you have reform still fundamentally hurting the tories more than laboun hurting the tories more than labour. of course, that can change. so yeah, i mean, that's still a bad result to form a government on 30%, but it would still mean labour have a majority of 60. >> but it's impossible to talk about. and we're only two months into a new government.

>> so it was you that was talking about it with certainty, because i was asked to talk about it. >> i'm no, ijust about it. >> i'm no, i just do what i'm told. >> look, paula, paula's been in touch. she says categorically labour will not be in power for ten years either. she does not agree. she says with your guest, phil, he's been in touch on twitter. he says michelle getting rid of priti patel basically shows that the tories are going down the same path as they previously gone down before, and that they haven't learned anything, he says, from their embarrassing general election defeat. the members should averted almost instantly. i think he reckons , kjt says i think he reckons, kjt says pensions. what about all the people who have chosen salary sacrifice to focus on things like private pensions? are they going to be the ones to get criticised and punished next? many people criticising the priorities of anyone that would try and slash any spending it seems like, towards pensioners, whilst we are spending eye—watering sums, pretty much everywhere else.

>> i mean the danger for labour michelle is it not to tell me the danger for labour a bit later on? >> because look at the time it flies. oh, sorry. thank you gents, for your company. thank you to each and every one of you at home. a treat for you after the break. andrew pierce. i'll see you tomorrow. see you tomorrow. >> see you tomorrow. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello. good evening . welcome >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news. weather update at the start of a pretty wet period across southern areas with a warning in force all the way through until the end of friday, but it will remain quite dry actually across north and western areas we've got high pressure starting to build in from the north and west. we will develop an easterly wind over, so that's going to drag in some cloud across eastern areas of scotland, northeastern england as well. overnight tonight further north and west though staying dry and clear across northern ireland and western areas of scotland, as well as some northwestern areas of wales into the south, though some

outbreaks of very heavy rain starting to develop. and we do have that warning in force. so potentially a bit of a fresh start to the day across northwestern areas of scotland. but it's across the south with plenty of cloud around and outbreaks of heavy rain. we could see some travel disruption where we have got that warning in force. not everywhere is going to see the rain all day, but where you do see it is likely to bring some surface water. could be quite a murky start to the day across eastern areas of scotland, as well as north eastern england, but plenty of sunshine across northern ireland, the western highlands, as well as the islands throughout thursday. and it will feel quite warm in that sunshine with light winds much better weather than we've had lately across these areas. and in fact , temperatures could in fact, temperatures could climb higher than they have done since may. by friday, across parts of the north—west. very different story, though in the south, with outbreaks of heavy rain developing most likely to turn quite heavy across south western areas of england, south wales as well . so pretty dull wales as well. so pretty dull day across the south for quite a big difference from the

north—west and a similar day to come on friday. further outbreaks of rain across the south. so we'd like to see further flooding issues and surface water. easterly wind will continue to bring some cloud to the coast of the north—east, but it will burn back a little more, so there will be more in the way of sunshine on friday. more widely in northern areas. another fine day to come saturday and sunday in the north, with further outbreaks of heavy rain across southern areas. >> by by looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. well >> good evening. i'm andrew pierce, covering for nigel farage this evening. well yesterday we saw one of the deadliest attempted channel crossings so far this year. but less than 24 hours after the tragedy in the english channel, another 100 migrants made the journey to our shore shores.

today, france's interior minister says this britain is responsible for the boat setting off in the first place. he's accusing us of being a soft touch. do you know what i think? i agree with him and we've had the first round of voting in the utterly uninspiring tory leadership contest . dame priti leadership contest. dame priti patel, the former home secretary, she is the first casualty. plus angela rayner, the deputy prime minister. she's looking to scrap the very scheme which put her on the property ladderin which put her on the property ladder in the first place. while labour say they're going to hike the triple lock, which will see pensioners even worse off. all that to come. first the news though, with sophia wenzler. >> andrew thank you. good evening from the gb newsroom. it's just gone 7:00. your headlines. the grenfell tower fire, which killed 72 people, was the result of decades of

failure. that's according to a long