interior today, france's interior minister says this britain is responsible for the boat setting off in the first place. he's accusing us of being a soft touch. do you know what i think? i agree with him and we've had the first round of voting in the utterly uninspiring tory leadership contest . dame priti leadership contest. dame priti patel, the former home secretary, she is the first casualty. plus angela rayner, the deputy prime minister. she's looking to scrap the very scheme which put her on the property ladderin which put her on the property ladder in the first place. while labour say they're going to hike the triple lock, which will see pensioners even worse off. all that to come. first the news though, with sophia wenzler. >> andrew thank you. good evening from the gb newsroom. it's just gone 7:00. your headlines. the grenfell tower fire, which killed 72 people, was the result of decades of failure. that's according to a

long awaited report over almost 1700 pages. the grenfell report reveals how missed opportunities by the government building companies, contractors and council staff turned grenfell into a death trap. families and survivors of the deadly blaze seven years ago say today's final damning report shows they were failed by calculated dishonesty and greed . rishi dishonesty and greed. rishi sunak, now leader of the opposition, has attacked labour's move to axe the winter fuel allowance for millions of pensioners. he faced off with sir keir starmer at the first prime minister's questions since parliament returned from the summer recess. the conservative leader accused the prime minister of taking money from low income pensioners and ploughing it into inflation busting pay rises for union workers. however, prime minister sir keir starmer defended his decision to cut the winter fuel payments, saying it's essential to stabilise the economy . to stabilise the economy. hundreds of migrants have attempted to cross the channel

just hours after 12 people, including a pregnant woman and six children, died when their boat sank. earlier, french police stormed a beach to stop around 200 others from attempting the crossing. dramatic footage also showed people wading out into the water, many not wearing life jackets, before pushing away from the shore. those migrants have now made it over to the uk as exclusive gb news footage reveals. now in the us, it's understood four people have died and 30 have been injured after a shooting at a high school in georgia. these are pictures of apalachee high school in barrow county, which was put on lockdown this morning after reports of gunfire there. georgia state police say one person is now in custody after the shooting. the white house has also now been briefed on the incident and priti patel has become the first tory mp to be voted out of the party's leadership contest, with only 14

votes from 121 tory mps. meanwhile robert jenrick came top of the ballot with 28 votes. mps cast their opening votes this afternoon, reducing the number of candidates from 6 to 5. the contenders now include james cleverly, robert jenrick, tom tugendhat, mel stride and kemi badenoch . those are the kemi badenoch. those are the latest gb news headlines for now. i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com. >> forward slash alerts . >> forward slash alerts. >> forward slash alerts. >> well, we got that terrible news, didn't we, yesterday about the deaths of 12 migrants in a boatin the deaths of 12 migrants in a boat in the channel, including a pregnant woman and three children. it's potentially now the deadliest year for illegal migrant crossings, with 25 people dying so far this year

alone. that's up from the 2023 toll of 12. the french interior minister has added to it all by saying that the prime minister should sign what he calls a migrant treaty with the european union in a further push to what he says will end the scourge of the illegal smuggling across europe. so what needs to be done to solve this crisis? and is it in the gift of keir starmer? well, tonight i'm asking you this question is the french interior minister right? are we a soft touch? is that why so many migrants head here and don't stay in france? tell me what you think. email farage @gbnews .com. well, joining me now is kevin saunders. he's a former chief immigration officer who led the border force immigration team in calais. kevin, evening. i suspect this french interior minister has got a point. we are a bit of a soft touch, aren't we? >> good evening. andrew. yes, we are. he's totally right, and until we toughen up, this is going to continue, and the french have been very right in

what they're saying for example, if you come to the uk, you can work in the unregulated economy very easily because you don't have an id card. nobody. and nobody bothers to check who you are, unlike europe, to where go to work in europe, you have to produce an id card. even if you're digging spuds in a field. so the french , unfortunately, so the french, unfortunately, are dead right? we're making it. we make it too nice for the people when they arrive. >> and what about the french? i saw the french police today. just one day after 12 people perished in the channel. they were. there were lots of migrants rushing into the water to get in a dinghy. and we saw some french police officers, i would say at best, sauntering in so—called pursuit after them. they didn't give a hoot. >> well, i think i think what we need to look at is how the

french reported yesterday's disaster and in fact, some french channels didn't report it at all. it was only headlines, really , in on regional really, in on regional television in northern france and a little bit on france three. other than that, it wasn't reported at all. the french have got their own problems. they've got a wobbly french government, they've got riots over there. they've got all sorts of problems. they're not interested in what's happening in the uk. and in fact, the french public just want shot of the migrants. they see them as a nuisance , a big see them as a nuisance, a big nuisance in calais. and if they're going to go to the uk, all well and good, >> you, you you've been there, you've done the job. why is it going? why are we losing control here? what's the problem in your view? and what does the prime minister, this new team that say

they're going to smash the gangs, what do they need to do? and how quickly can they do it? >> well, they're not going to smash the gangs. let's be realistic, we have a hope in hell of smashing the gangs as we go after one gang. if we're fortunate in wrapping up one gang, another two spring up. and we've seen that this year in france already, the french have taken out 30 odd gangs , but it taken out 30 odd gangs, but it hasn't stopped it one little bit. so no, we're not going to. we're not going to win this war by smashing the gangs because we can't smash the gangs. how do we win the war then? sorry. >> how do we do it then? how do we how do we stop this? >> well, what what you've got to do is you've got to convince the french that they've got to get rid of this stupid idea that they won't intercept people in they won't intercept people in the channel as you so rightly said, the french made an effort on the beaches yesterday and

today. on the beaches yesterday and today . but they won't do today. but they won't do anything. once the people are actually in the water. so even if that boat is only in six inches of water, they won't stop it , their view is that once it, their view is that once they're in the water, that's it. it's not their problem anymore. all right ? all right? >> okay, kevin, thanks for joining me. that's kevin saunders, who was the chief immigration officer who led the border force team in calais. the panel tonight delighted to say sir conor burns, former conservative mp, was a conservative mp, was a conservative mp, was a conservative mp until rishi sunak's deranged decision to call an early election. and joe phillips, who worked for paddy ashdown and worked with me many years ago, many years ago, many years ago, many years ago, many years ago, many years ago, many years ago on a radio programme and a very experienced broadcaster. let me ask you first, conor, the first thing keir starmer's government did and they made a big thing about it was scrap the rwanda plan. look, we never did get a plane in the air. but as we probably invested 400, was it 500, maybe even £600 million of public money on the rwanda plan? should he not have at least, perhaps

tried to see if we could get a plane in the air, if it would act as a deterrent? >> yes. it's the short answer to that. and i think you've got to look at why rwanda was not a perfect scheme by any means at all. and from what you've just heard, there are no easy solutions to this. but rwanda was an attempt to send a signal that if you come here illegally, you may not get to stay here. and one of the great magnets of this illegal migration is this reality that we send almost no one back in my own former constituency, we had four hotels in the town, in the centre that were previously used for hospitality, accommodation, tourist accommodation given over tourist accommodation given over to people claiming asylum. in this country. and one of the challenges we had, apart from a few bonehead tory mps who kept trying to appeal to the london liberal dinner party circuit about how pro they were. well,

you know , i can think of a few. you know, i can think of a few. there were a few not that far away from my own area in bournemouth, but the problem was that because the opinion polls were so consistent that we were going to be thrown out, the civil service had gone on a go slow on this. so even if we got all the legislation through. the chances of getting the flights into the air were zero. yeah, i think the prime minister was very. the then prime minister was very frustrated. but what starmer has done, we saw before the election, do you remember, andrew, were the they were interviewing some of these migrants in france who said, well, we're waiting. we're waiting for mr starmer and then we'll come across of course, we should have kept it. it wasn't perfect, but at least it was something. >> you're part of that liberal dinner party. >> hardly, hardly. and i certainly am not in london. no, as you know. so let's get that out of the way. to start with, rwanda was as daft and as expensive as any other idea and gimmick. i mean, part of the problem is. and i think the, the point that the interior, the french interior minister made today is that there needs to be

some sort of agreement, which isn't just about britain sending yet more millions of pounds to french police. nearly 500 million so far, it needs to be an agreement about returns and about interception , because about interception, because since we left europe, we have no right of return because we left the dublin agreement. we didn't leave europe. >> of course we left the eu. >> of course we left the eu. >> well, we left the eu, but we're no longer part of the eu. so we don't we're not part of the dublin agreement. we don't have any safe legal borders or legal ways for people to cross. and, you know , the idea that and, you know, the idea that it's a soft touch, i mean, kevin is right in a sense that if you get a cross and you can disappear into the underground economy, then you probably can go and work for a pittance and live in a garage or, you know, live in a garage or, you know, live in a caravan or something like that and take your chances that way. but part of the problem is the huge backlog of processing asylum claims. as you know , conor, i mean, there were know, conor, i mean, there were millions and millions and part of that obviously was to do with

covid. but of course, covid stopped people travelling as well. but people have been sitting. you know, waiting for months when actually they could either be deported if they are not legally entitled to stay or they could be working. i mean, you can't even work legally in this country until you've been here as a year for a year. and you can't do that unless your claim has been processed. >> what are we, a soft touch? >> what are we, a soft touch? >> well, you have to ask yourself the question. a couple of questions, actually, on this, the tory leadership, which we may touch on later, they're all obsessing about the echr. what a lot of nonsense. yeah, there are many other countries that are fully subscribing members of the echr who send a very high proportion of people who arrive illegally in their jurisdictions, but because they're processing them more quickly , but they send them quickly, but they send them back, we don't. right. we don't. and that's why a lot of people want to come here. we immediately put them into hotels. yeah. how many hotels in france are they in before they come here? not very many. the conditions in calais are pretty.

pretty abysmal. and then once you get here, then eventually you get here, then eventually you start to bring all family and all sorts of other things. and the and the illegal working. there's all sorts of stuff that has been written about about people acting as deliveroo drivers and taking somebody else's, ponying somebody else's identity . and the police, i have identity. and the police, i have to say, are pretty woeful on some of this stuff we saw in bournemouth a very standoffish attitude by the police. some of thatis attitude by the police. some of that is a terrified of being accused of racism because of the colour of some of the people's skins, who are coming in. but i think we are a soft touch and that's why so many more people want to come here than want to. france is a safe country. it is. so you're looking at me aghast at this terrible thing that i'm saying. france is a perfectly safe country, so why aren't they claiming asylum in france? >> who knows? you know, but you know, this is a very pertinent question. >> that is the point, isn't it? >> that is the point, isn't it? >> that's a really pertinent question. >> it is a point that i don't know the answer to because they

know the answer to because they know what i a nice warm hotel here rather than a campsite in france. i don't think they they're nice, warm hotels. i mean, i think the idea that they come here and they're put up in four star hotels, you are getting into a boat, risking your life to cross a dangerous stretch. >> tells you how desperate they are. >> well, connor. >> well, connor. >> hang on. whoa, whoa. let's reverse up. here they are fleeing persecution. many of them. by the way, you don't nofice them. by the way, you don't notice many women or children getting off these boats, do you? >> there were a lot of women on that boat that capsized fleeing persecution. was pregnant, and there were ten children. >> and they're in france. a safe country, a member of the beloved eu. why do they then want to get on a boat? >> you would have to ask and come across a dangerous stretch of channel of water to claim asylum in the uk. >> yeah, i think, i think the french foreign minister is onto something. there are questions. >> why are so many of these? why are so many of these desperate people, joe, coming from turkey, what persecution are they fleeing from? >> turkey, i don't know, and i don't where of those figures these figures are. >> these are official figures. turkey is increasingly high numbers. >> iran is the highest number. >> iran is the highest number. >> vietnam and turkey are both

on 10%. arrivals from vietnam, turkey, turkey. but turkey, where we go on our holidays. >> so turkey presumably we have got a return agreement, as we do with albania or as we did with albania. now, do we sign one government with albania? so but i mean, you've got somebody coming from iran, let's say you've got somebody fleeing gaza, you've got somebody fleeing sudan. you know, there are many, many reasons why people are absolutely, utterly desperate. >> there are very few people fleeing from gaza because you can either get in or get out of gaza. >> do you not accept a lot of these economic migrants? look at these economic migrants? look at the age of these. they're young men. >> some are, some are. but they weren't on that boat yesterday. >> that's true. >> that's true. >> there were women there. and actually, when you look at the figures from the home office, the numbers of asylum claims are pretty evenly split between briefly back to where we started this rwanda. >> if a if starmer had allowed a plane to go to rwanda, if it had taken off, do you not think that might have been a deterrent? no, i don't think it would have deterred a single no, i don't and i think the only thing that deters people and i've had this conversation with nigel farage, is the one thing we agree on because we're both sailors.

>> the only thing that stops people crossing the channel is the weather. what's happening now? and this makes it much more problematic, is that they're moving further along the coast, away from calais and away from, i mean, this one yesterday was berlin, but they're also starting up in the canals, you know, near etaples and places like that. so they're going under cover of darkness down these canals. the smugglers are taking the thwarts out of the boat , which taking the thwarts out of the boat, which is why taking the thwarts out of the boat , which is why they sink. so boat, which is why they sink. so there's absolutely, you know , there's absolutely, you know, and one of the things that keir starmer was discussing when he went to germany with oliver schultz was about the fact that germany is where most of the boats are stored and come from . boats are stored and come from. so, you know, everybody has got a role to play in this, all of this to leave a safe country, all of this to leave a country. >> i'm going to thank my panel. they're staying with me. coming up next. then there were five in this extraordinarily exciting tory leadership contest. priti patel is the first to be eliminated in the first round. now we have to wait for the thrilling instalment till next tuesday. we're going to

break. welcome back. well, i've been asking you, is britain a soft touch for asylum seekers? a lot of you are getting in touch. firstly cynthia says, is it too simple to just stop paying illegal migrants, housing them, giving them phones ? what else giving them phones? what else they're encouraged by? and leslie says this of course, britain's a soft touch. that's why we're a magnet . they know why we're a magnet. they know once they hear, they won't be deported. the french want to shunt their migrants over here. we would, if we could do it the other way round. now, the results of the first round of voting amongst tory mps to select rishi sunak successor was announced today. dame priti patel, the former home secretary, was the first of the six candidates to be knocked out of the race. obviously she got the fewest votes. the former immigration minister, robert jenrick, topped the ballot with 28 votes. the next round is scheduled for tuesday for the five remaining candidates will be whittled down to four. finally it'll be. there'll be a shortlist of two, which will be

sent to the membership of the tory party. the number of which we don't know. the current remaining candidates are robert jenrick, james cleverly, mel stride , kemi badenoch, kemi stride, kemi badenoch, kemi badenoch and tom tugendhat. over to my panel. sir conor burns, former tory mp for bournemouth west, and joe phillips , who west, and joe phillips, who pressed former press secretary and journalist conor to you first, of course, if you were an mp today, i know who you'd voted for. badenoch, because i saw you at her launch . at her launch. >> no, i'd have voted for kemi badenoch btec because you keep pronouncing she rightly says there is no quite right, quite right. >> touche, i stand corrected. look, the first thing i would reflect on if i was a tory mp today is the person who came first, got 28 votes. >> if that doesn't tell people very graphically about how diminished the conservative party is tonight, that figure gives it to you . and i think my gives it to you. and i think my colleagues in parliament have

got a decision to make. do they want to elect someone who wants to challenge why we failed in government in so many places? ask really uncomfortable questions and start to lay the foundations from first principles of a programme that we can put to the british people to get back into government. i believe we're more volatile now electorally than we've ever been.the electorally than we've ever been. the electorate are much more promiscuous with their voting than they have ever been before. i don't think that this government necessarily is nailed on in the way that blair's was for two or maybe even three terms, or do we want to elect somebody who's going to make us feel good and give us false hope? now pretty i have a great admiration for her. she's a friend. her platform was one of unity. let's all unite you can read that in a cornflakes packet. unite around what? belief in what? what is the alternative? we want to develop? what are the big challenges facing our country in the

decades ahead that we want to help provide solutions to this contents clearly is now absolutely still wide open. yeah. and i hope they'll get into a more substantive debate about what went wrong and what we need to do differently. >> they have to talk about what went wrong. but don't they also have to tell us what they need to do differently to take the party forward? because the party is in an existential crisis? >> well, it is. and when you went and talked to people they didn't recognise, i remember i haven't spoken about this publicly. let me just tell you, a guy i used to do all these house meetings where we'd invite everyone into a neighbour's home who was willing to open their home, and i remember sitting in a garden of a former council house that people had bought , house that people had bought, and this guy looked at me and he said, connor, i think you've been a good mp. but let me ask you this. he said, i'm waiting for a hip operation and i've been waiting for nine months. my wife was told yesterday that it

would be five weeks before she could see her gp. i'm paying more tax than i've ever paid before . our roads are full of before. our roads are full of potholes. the police couldn't catch tadpoles and we don't control our borders. what makes you think that you deserve another term in government? and it was a very challenging question. yeah. and to simply say, well, the other lot would be worse. and i think they're demonstrating that already is not a good enough answer. the conservative party divorced itself from the things that it fundamentally believes in, which is trust for people. the belief that people's money is first and foremost their own. and the state has an obligation to take as little as possible to do a small number of things as a state. well, and we were bribing people with their own money on a huge range of things free child care, all these other things. we lost touch. >> joe phillips, they lost touch . >> joe phillips, they lost touch. is the tory party doomed? is it? >> it is. if it carries on chasing reform . and that is the

chasing reform. and that is the big problem that ever since ukip and the in my view, ill decided referendum chosen by david cameron to, you know, be the memorial of his government, they have been moving further and further, and we've seen it with the shrieking and the shrillness of suella braverman and kemi badenoch and various other people along the way. we've seen it in the chaos and the appalling behaviour of boris johnson, who not only brought the party into disrepute, he brought parliament and democracy into disrepute and we saw it writ large, but not for very long. mercifully in liz truss, whoever takes over as leadership andifs whoever takes over as leadership and it's really important that there's a strong opposition in this country. i mean, i was quite surprised to see rishi sunak, who is the leader of his majesty's opposition, because he's been very, very quiet for weeks. >> 13 tweets since the general election. >> i mean, it is astonishing there has been a lot going on, and the only people who've been

tweeting or commenting are mainly the tory leadership candidates. it's really important to have strong opposition. it's really important to hold government to account. but you can't do that if you're chasing the shadow over there of nigel farage and lee anderson, and you can't do it by by wasting time and energy on woke wars and stoking hatred when actually what you need to do is to deal with the potholes and the hip replacements. >> very good point on that. we're going to have to move on because earlier today, the long awaited final report of the grenfell tower inquiry was published, exposing a torrent of failings. remember 72 people died as a result of a combination of incompetence, dishonesty and greed, according to that official report, 1700 pages of it, with some blame apportioned to government, deregulation of building safety requirements. the inquiry chairman, sir martin moore—bick, said the simple truth is that the deaths that occurred were all avoidable and that those who lived in the tower were badly fell by those who were responsible for ensuring the safety of its building and its occupants. how was this disaster able to happen? how can we

prevent it happening again in the future? joe phillips, we now know that there is no possibility whatsoever of any criminal prosecution before the end of 2026. is that good enough? >> no. it's not. and what we but what we do know, which is, i think, very significant and very swift and i would say , actually, swift and i would say, actually, that both the prime minister, keir starmer and rishi sunak, i thought, spoke very well in the commons today and apologised on behalf of, you know , various behalf of, you know, various governments. well, it's been going on since 19 because it's been going on for such a long time. yeah i as you may remember, andrew was involved in the lakanal house inquest, at which just remember about what year that was . so that was 2006, year that was. so that was 2006, i think. yeah but the coroner and the inquest happened a long time after, after the actual fire. and that was six people died in a not anywhere near a taller building in south london. and the coroner wrote to the then, he was the local

government secretary. pickles and said you need to take note of this, this, this, this and this. and nothing happened . what this. and nothing happened. what has been done today was, i think is significant is that the government has announced that none of the companies that were involved in this will be allowed to put a tender in bid for government contracts, which is, you know, it's something. but shouldn't they be pursued for money? of course they should. but you know , why should the but you know, why should the taxpayer we've seen and why this has taken so long is the buck passing or the merry go round of oh, well, it wasn't me. it was the council. i mean, there are so many people to blame on this, andrew. and what is so shocking that at the end of it all, it comes down to the simple thing that nobody was listening to the residents, nobody. whether they were the council, the tenants management organisation, the councillors . councillors. >> what i think this says to me as well, this is another major institutional failure. we've we've seen it with the post

office, a major institutional failure. we saw it with the infected blood scandal, another major institutional failure. and this again, whether it's local government, central government. no wonder people are losing faith in this country. i've literally was just going to say post office, there we are. >> there is something about the way that we do business in this country as the state, as government, different arms, government, different arms, government that is dysfunctional. and you're right, the fire in 91 was the point at which things should have happened. i think i'm right in saying that the grenfell tower was built in 1974. so this is not the fault of a single government. this is a collective institutional failure. but institutions don't make decisions. people make decisions. people make decisions. people make decisions. people fail to respond to things. we've had multiple housing ministers. we've had fewer permanent secretaries, for example, and chief executives of councils dunng chief executives of councils during these periods , and during these periods, and permanent secretaries the power of the civil service and this

should not be underestimated. the civil service, as we saw through the post office ones who are the ones who channel the information to the ministers and they're the ones with the institutional memory because they're there . and i think we they're there. and i think we should. i was listening to quentin letts on the programme before this saying we really ought to be hearing a little bit more cross examination of some of these people who, by the way, will have all, i imagine, without besmirching anybody individually because i don't know, their names disappeared off to serve on boards, to become advisers and consultants, much more low profile than the ministers who were there for very short periods of time. >> many of those people will have been at local level as well. yes, indeed. >> chief, chief, when i say chief executive, i meant the council. absolutely. >> yes. we're under pressure on time. i'm afraid we're going to move on. next up, could angela raynen move on. next up, could angela rayner, the prime minister axed beloved right to buy scheme of conor

next. well, the labour government is yet again facing allegations of hypocrisy after it's been revealed. the deputy prime minister angela rayner, was. she's drawing up plans to end the flagship thatcher era right to buy scheme and remember angela rayner, back in 2001, bought her former council house in manchester at a 25% discount and she made good luck to her. a very tidy profit. well, it's tricky. rows over home ownership goes the government is also facing a significant backlash overits facing a significant backlash over its decision to axe the winter fuel allowance in to order fill that alleged is it 20 order fill that alleged is it 20 or £22 billion black hole? but of course, they're finding plenty of public cash to fulfil trade union public sector pay demands. so joining me now is the author and broadcaster rebecca reed. rebecca, a flagship policy for mrs. thatcher. it brought lots of working class people on council estates up and down the land to vote tory for the first time back in the 80s. i think you were in a council house at one point. or maybe you still are.

do you think the labour government are right to ditch it? >> unfortunately, yes, because it's the kind of policy that is really immediately lovely for a small number of people, but long term leaves you with depleted resources. and if we had the money to be building homes to replace the ones we were selling off, then perhaps because it would be lovely for everybody to be able to own their own home. but unfortunately, we don't have the ability to build the amount of housing that we need. therefore, selling off valuable assets doesn't work and so i live in an ex—council house, which was sold off in the 80s, i'm not the target person who that house was intended for in the first place, though. i am a single parent, so i would be eligible for some council housing. but on the terrace i live, every other house is owned by a private landlord and on both sides they are house shares, where young people in their 20s are paying about £1,000 each a month to live there, and these are houses that were built to be affordable, accessible housing for people who worked in local industry . and £1,000 a month industry. and £1,000 a month when you were in your mid 20s. is not that so? ultimately what ends up happening with a lot of

these houses is that they are sold off privately, and then they get into the into the hands of landlords and then they end up being, like one of the houses on my row is owned by a guy who owns 15 houses. like, that's not good or socially progressive. that's making one man very rich. and it means that other local teachers, nurses, etc. can't live in this area cheaply because of course, one of the great arguments for this is it's about increasing social mobility. >> it gave people who've been renting in the council house sector for decades, for instance, a chance to own their own home and better themselves. and i was brought up in a council estate in swindon, and i have to say, the estate was improved after the right to buy because people invested money in their homes and they looked nicer, and that created jobs. and i'm not aware of that mistakes. i still go back there that landlords have got their gnps that landlords have got their grips, they've got their muddy paws on those properties. but i hear what you say, but do you accept that was one of the benefits of right to buy in the first place?

>> i think it's comparing apples and oranges though. so yes, absolutely. in a world where we have kind of fecund financial resources, everybody being able to own a home is really wonderful. but actually the council system works fairly well in the sense that you can't be you're not going to be kicked out of it. so you can live there with your family. and i understand that most councils will allow you to, pass your tenancy to on your children. so much so that, of course, they're not inheriting the actual shell of the house, but you are able to make sure that your children will be able to stay in the family home functionally. admittedly, not owning it and not making money on an asset, but still safe and able to remain in their community. and if those houses go and then they get back into the kind of public, into private ownership, that ability to make sure that people on lower incomes can stay living in specific areas is stripped away. and that's particularly bad in cities like london and manchester and bristol, where housing is increasingly expensive. and what you end up with is that people who, for instance, nurses can't afford to live near the big hospital near me because everyone around it is too expensive. and then then you have staff shortages because no one can work there. so while it is a really nice ideal for

everybody to be able to buy their own home, unfortunately their own home, unfortunately the country is not in the same state that it was in the 1980s, so we can't have the same policies. >> all right, rebecca, well, thank you very much for that. well, let's go straight to the panel well, let's go straight to the panel. conor burns, you were very close to margaret thatcher. this was one of her defining policies in the 1980s. and there's no doubt it transformed her, the position of the conservative party with the working class vote. did they get it wrong? is the problem with with the policy that some of the receipts from the sales were not ploughed back into building more council housing? if they had have been, would this policy still be viable? >> so let me say something that you'll find controversial, naomi, as you do. this wasn't margaret thatcher's idea or policy. this was michael heseltine's policy. and given that it's vanishingly unlikely that it's vanishingly unlikely that michael heseltine views this channel. yeah, he won't hear me paying that compliment. but it was a very good policy. yeah. and it was part of, of margaret thatcher's belief of giving people control over the destiny of their own lives . i

destiny of their own lives. i remember in the later years of lady thatcher's life when we would go to receptions and people would come up and say to her, i started my own business because of the enterprise allowance scheme, and i just want to thank you. i now employ x number of people and she always said to them, it should be me thanking you, because without people like you, thatcherism would just have been a theory. she was about the empowerment of the individual, and she believed that society as and she believed that society as a whole would benefit when people acquired property and wealth and were able to pass on. however, you are absolutely correct, and i think she latterly agreed that there was a mistake, that the receipts weren't used to replenish the stock, so that the cascading of opportunity would continue. now, one of the reasons they weren't is because if you remember at the time, you all remember better than i a little, little how old i am, little age gap, we were in the we were in the grip of the real militant hard left. we were london and nationwide labour local authorities and she was very worried what they would

do with the money. so it had to be. yeah, they had to be stopped from, from using it. there was a lot of interesting stuff in the interview you've just done. i mean, you could say within that interview that we should have all future social housing, ring fence for nurses . interesting fence for nurses. interesting proposition. you could also say that the nhs should be doing more with the vast banks of land that it has, that it's not using to go into joint ventures with developers to create affordable housing. very close to hospital sites, particularly in inner cities. you could have said from that interview, we should get rid of the private rented sector altogether. i think what's wrong with this is rather than recalibrating the policy to increase the supply and continue selling to tenants, we're talking about getting rid of the policy altogether. that's wrong. it's also wrong. by the way, do remember, dear old bob crow. the crow. well, he lived in a council house despite being on about £90,000. the leader of his trade union. >> yeah he did. >> yeah he did. >> that's not right either.

>> that's not right either. >> no, joe, we're so short on time. just tell me quickly. is they right to scrap it? labour? >> yes, i think they are. and i completely agree with everything that conor said. if the money had gone to councils and they could have spent it and i don't know why, that it wasn't overturned at some point later on. >> on. >> right now we have got coming up for our what the farage moment this evening in true orwellian fashion, venezuela's socialist president nicolas maduro, who a lot of people think, fixed the election, says that christmas celebrations in venezuela will start on october the 1st. critics and political opponents in the catholic majority nation have accused maduro of trying to rewrite history in order to divert pubuc history in order to divert public attention and anger away from disputes over his recent election win . because people say election win. because people say he fiddled the outcome. as george orwell stated in the 1984. it's a cautionary tale warning of the dangers of totalitarian socialist regimes, but changing to christmas day .

but changing to christmas day. do you think we should make christmas day as a moveable feast kind of birds? on it's wonderful that a socialist president is talking about christmas at all as something that we seem to struggle about with seasons, greetings and all the rest of it that we do in in this country. >> the wtf moment. i'm not so sure we're in any position to lecture any other countries on wtf moments. when we made liz truss prime minister >> oh truss prime minister >> on very good. thank you to my panel >> coming up next, the latest royal standoff in the battle the windsor brothers. >> stay tuned. >> sir william rmt, the duke of

sussex. prince harry, apparently is now saying he wouldn't consider a move back across the pond unless his big brother apologises. well, that's not what happened, is it? he would, however, be keen to help out if his father, the king, asked him to. this comes after reports that prince harry is apparently losing faith in his hollywood publicists, and his hollywood lifestyle. so let's talk to

somebody who knows all about the royals, the former royal butler grant . they've got you down as grant. they've got you down as grant. they've got you down as grant butler. i can't believe your name is grant butler. it's grant harrold. of course it's grant harrold. of course it's grant harrold. of course it's grant harrold. this is this is the deliberate error of the day in the autocue. the royal butler, grant butler. how about grant? harry grant, very nice to talk to you, grant. prince harry, there's no way prince william is going to apologise to his brother. shouldn't it be the other way round ? harry wrote the other way round? harry wrote the rude book. >> yeah. this is becoming very confusing, isn't it? because one minute we're hearing he's going to come back, then he's not going to come back. he wants apologies. i mean, i think i've said before a million times, the families have fallouts and there's always two sides to an argument. but is prince william going to make a public apology, as you said? what would that apology be for? i don't really understand why he'd make the apology. obviously harry is the one that's kind of done. the things that royals don't typically do. so you'd have thought it would be the other way. the other way around. i mean, it's one thing if he wants to do that, fine. if that's the

way he wants to play it and he wants to kind of do the kind of royal celebrity route that's up to him. but then to ask his brother to apologise. i don't really understand. >> if he came back, he couldn't carry on with a commercial life at all. if he wanted to be doing any royal engagements. as the late queen famously said, you can't be half in and half out. it's all or nothing. >> it's absolutely true. i mean, the queen would not have any of that kind of thing, you know. as you said, it was it was completely in or not in. there was no kind of half measure. and the kings from my memories are around him very similar to his late mother, very similar. and he'll have the same view that if harry does come back, he can't do this. media commercial route and be a royal. as i said, a celebrity royal. it's not something that they'll want to support or endorse or have any kind of connection to. i mean, royals, of course, have friends that are in the media and they've got a close relationship with the media. they work with the media. but but this is very

different. this is an actual member of the family, you know, kind of get involved in kind of television. and we've had it before. i think even, you know, it hasn't worked historically with other members of the royal family. it's a bit of a disaster. so i think the king will, if he was to ask harry to come back and support or to be involved, he wouldn't want him dillydallying he'd want him to be focused on royal duties. >> all right. well, that's grant harold, not grant butler, who was a royal butler . thank you so was a royal butler. thank you so much for joining was a royal butler. thank you so much forjoining us, grant. let's just ask the panel briefly. joe phillips, i know what a staunch monarchist you are. do you want to harry come back in glorious. >> i'm more interested in christmas in october in venezuela, but since they've putting christmas goods in the shops here, presumably they've got christmas goods in the shops from easter time in venezuela . from easter time in venezuela. or is that moving as well? >> that's going to move. so conor burns, i think we're incredibly lucky in this country to have the royal family. >> and when the late queen passed on, there was some debate about whether it would move on in the same way. and the king

has done an absolutely superb job, ably supported by his eldest son. and we're seeing continuity play out before our eyes and anyone. there are always family disputes. i don't get on very well with one of my brothers, but if you try to small the best way to settle family disputes is in private. yeah, i think that's really all i'd like to say about it. >> yeah, well, that's absolutely. jacob rees—mogg is here. i mean, you must. your thoughts on your fine program, but let me ask you about harry. i mean, i cannot see how he comes back. i think the damage is done. >> i think it's difficult. i think the real difficulty is that anything that people have said to prince harry has then appeared in a book, and it's very hard to rebuild that trust. on the other hand, he is a charismatic figure. he is popular still, particularly with younger people. not not perhaps as much as the old brigade like us, but with the younger people . us, but with the younger people. and it's going to be very

difficult if he wants to come back because the monarchy is the fount of mercy as well as of justice. and i just wonder what the british people will think in ten years time if no mercy is shown. so i think there may be a way back for him in due course, and that a very hard nosed royal family may find that that didn't maintain popular support. but he's got to come back in a very measured way that means that when they have lunch with him, they're only talking about the front page of the daily mail rather than their innermost secrets, because they won't want it to appear in a book because it's how do you rebuild that trust? it was very difficult. i mean, unlike conor, i get on with all my siblings. i'm very lucky to do so. and i think that's so important. i mean, for families, that is a point about families, that is a point about families, isn't it? >> yes, absolutely. >> yes, absolutely. >> and you don't you absolutely don't air your dirty linen in public. and you know, what did the late queen say ? never

the late queen say? never complain, never explain. you know, you put people in a ridiculous position. and i'm afraid that even if you know , if afraid that even if you know, if jacob is right and there was a way for harry to come back, i think meghan has now lost an awful lot of love and trust. i remember when they came, they would announce their engagement and they were in south london and they were in south london and they were in south london and the queues were 12 deep from 7:00 in the morning and mainly mainly black communities who were out there to see her. she threw that away, that genuine affection , that genuine love. affection, that genuine love. you know, the queen gave her patronage of the national theatre and various other things, and she threw that all away. and i think although mercy might exist in the royal family, i think the british public have got far more respect for charles and william and kate and camilla. >> jacob, what's happening in state of the nation? well we're going to be talking about angela rayner's extraordinary hypocrisy , rayner's extraordinary hypocrisy, classic socialist. >> you allow people to buy their council houses when it's you. as

soon as you've got up the ladder , soon as you've got up the ladder, you pull the ladder up so nobody else can join you. so you're going to be talking about that. desperate unfairness will also inevitably going to be talking about the tory leadership. the surprise result that priti patel has fallen out. did that surprise you? >> did you think it was. >> did you think it was. >> i thought, mel stride, that it would be mel stride, but it was pretty, i think so highly of pretty. so i'm sorry to see her. >> if you were still an mp, which you've had your vote. >> i don't know, actually, because i didn't need to decide. i didn't decide and i'll wait till, till the final round, but that throws everything up in the air. the second to fifth place had, i think, six votes within them. it is very close. so the race is becoming exciting. >> but conor burns made a very good point , >> but conor burns made a very good point, didn't he? the >> but conor burns made a very good point , didn't he? the fact good point, didn't he? the fact that the top ranked mp had only 28 votes, it's a measure of how far this tory party has fallen. >> oh, i mean that. we've only got 120. whatever it is, mps is not encouraging. >> can i ask you, as a staunch roman catholic boy, like me, moving christmas to october the 1st, has he gone completely mad?

that venezuelan mad? >> well, he can't. don't worry. oh, good. he can say what he likes . but the date of christmas likes. but the date of christmas is set by the magisterium of the church. it's not sent by some random crackpot dictator. i wouldn't worry about it. >> oh , that's such a relief, >> oh, that's such a relief, isn't it? i didn't think you'd put. we can all sleep easily tonight. yes, yes. >> and just 10s more on your programme . programme. >> what else are we going to do? oh, the national trust. national trust seems to be losing lots of members as it becomes woke, go woke, go broke is apparently the populist saying they deserve it. >> i'm afraid they really do. that's jacob rees—mogg. that's it from me. i hope you've put up with me this evening standing in for the fine nigel farage. thank you to my panel, the wonderful joe phillips, the wonderful sir conor burns. i'll be back in my usual spot on gb news tomorrow morning from 9:30 am. from britain's newsroom with bev turner and me. it's britain's favourite morning news show. oh, who wrote that? can i really say that? only here on gb news. i hope you can join us first though. the weather with annie shuttleworth coming up , it looks

shuttleworth coming up, it looks like things are heating up. >> boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update at the start of a pretty wet period across southern areas with a warning in force, all the way through until the end of friday, but it will remain quite dry actually across north and western areas we've got high pressure starting to build in from the north and west. we will develop an easterly wind over so that's going to drag in some cloud across eastern areas of scotland, northeastern england as well. overnight tonight further north and west though staying dry and clear across northern ireland and western areas of scotland, as well as some northwestern areas of wales into the south, though some outbreaks of very heavy rain starting to develop and we do have that warning in force. so potentially a bit of a fresh start to the day across northwestern areas of scotland, but it's across the south with plenty of cloud around and

outbreaks of heavy rain. we could see some travel disruption where we have got that warning in force. not everywhere is going to see the rain all day, but where you do see it is likely to bring some surface water. could be quite a murky start to the day across eastern areas of scotland as well as north eastern england, but plenty of sunshine across northern ireland, the western highlands as well as the islands throughout thursday. and it will feel quite warm in that sunshine with light winds. much better weather than we've had lately across these areas. and in fact, temperatures could climb higher than they have done since may. by than they have done since may. by friday, across parts of the nonh by friday, across parts of the north west. very different story though, in the south, with outbreaks of heavy rain developing most likely to turn quite heavy across south western areas of england, south wales as well. so pretty dull day across the south. quite a big difference from the north—west and a similar day to come on friday. further outbreaks of rain across the south. so we'd like to see further flooding issues and surface water easterly wind will continue to bnng easterly wind will continue to bring some cloud to the coast of the north—east but it will burn

back a little more, so there will be more in the way of sunshine on friday, more widely in northern areas. another fine day to come saturday and sunday in the north, with further outbreaks of heavy rain across southern areas. but by a brighter outlook, with boxt solar sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> hello. good evening, it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nafion jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation tonight. angela rayner is preparing to scrap one of thatcher's great legacies the right to buy scheme . socialists right to buy scheme. socialists will always climb up the ladder and pull it up after themselves. it's a shock result in the first round of the tory leadership election, with the former home secretary dame priti patel being eliminated from the race. for those of you anxious to hear my views on the oasis ticket saga tonight, i will be exclusively

breaking my silence on the dynamic pricing controversy. plus, yet another example of going woke going broke. the national trust has seen a slump in membership following its relentless campaign of britain bashing and self—flagellation. state of the nation starts now . state of the nation starts now. i'll also be joined by my panel tonight. a battle of the historians is upon us. david aldridge, bolt of the danube institute and state of the nafion institute and state of the nation regular tessa dunlop. as evenl nation regular tessa dunlop. as ever, i want to know your views. it's a crucial part of the programme. mailmogg@gbnews.com. but now it's your favourite part of the day. the news bulletin with sophia wenzler. >> jacob thank you. good evening from the gb newsroom . it's just from the gb newsroom. it's just gone. 8:00. your headlines. from the gb newsroom. it's just gone. 8:00. your headlines . the gone. 8:00. your headlines. the grenfell tower fire, which

killed