hereditary peers remaining 92 hereditary peers are to be kicked out of the house of lords. but is this really the kind of reform that we need for the lords, or should we need for the lords, or should we be going a lot, lot further.7 because i think we ought before all of that, let's get the news with sophia wenzler. >> nigel. thank you. good evening. i'm sophia wenzler with your headlines just after 7:00. the prime minister has said he is deeply saddened by the death of a member of the royal navy after a merlin helicopter ditched in the english channel. the incident occurred during operations with hms queen elizabeth. no other fatalities or serious injuries have been reported , the ministry of reported, the ministry of defence has confirmed. the family has been informed and a full investigation is now underway. the home office has confirmed it will not use raf scampton to house asylum seekers. labour has scrapped the former conservative government's plan to house asylum seekers at

the former raf raf base in lincolnshire. home office minister dame angela eagle said the plan, which has already cost £60 million, fails to deliver value for money for the taxpayer . value for money for the taxpayer. meanwhile, it's being reported that germany is considering their own rwanda scheme using uk facilities. germany's special representative for migration agreements, joachim stamp, said the eu could use facilities set up the eu could use facilities set ”p by the eu could use facilities set up by the last uk government. labour cancelled the rwanda scheme, which was intended to deter migrants planning to cross the english channel in small boats when they entered office. downing street said it would not comment on the discussions between two foreign governments . between two foreign governments. the government has admitted not all buildings with the same dangerous cladding as grenfell tower have been identified. that's following the damning findings published this week. the prime minister has pledged to review all 58 recommendations from the inquiry, with a full response due within six months. the report heavily criticised

firms like arconic and kingspan , firms like arconic and kingspan, with families and survivors calling for a swift punishment for those found at fault. meanwhile, the metropolitan police are continuing to investigate potential criminal charges, which could take up to 18 months. in france, the eu's former brexit negotiator michel barnier has been appointed as prime minister. president emmanuel macron made the announcement in a bid to resolve the political gridlock after the summer's snap election. at 73, barnier will be the oldest prime minister in france's modern political history, taking over from gabriel attal, who was the youngest . and in the us, donald youngest. and in the us, donald trump has a job for billionaire supporter elon musk. if he wins the november 5th election. the republican candidate laid out his economic vision for the country today, including the creation of a government efficiency commission that he said elon musk has agreed to lead. if the former president is weekend the afd winning a state electi if , nearly ”hf” * ' ~ ~ weekend the afd winning a state electi if the arly ”hf” * ' ~ ~ weekend the afd winning a state electi if the formermijf m~ ' ~ ~ weekend the afd winning a state electi if the former president mm m , ~ ~ elected. musk responded on his weekend the afd winning a state electi if the former president ismm m , ~ ~ lead. if the former president is elected. musk responded on his social media platform x, saying, social media platform x, saying,

i look forward to serving i look forward to serving america if the opportunity america if the opportunity anses. america if the opportunity arises . those are the latest gb anses. america if the opportunity arises . those are the latest gb arises. those are the latest gb arises. those are the latest gb news headlines for now. i'm news headlines for now. i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> hello there! well, if you forward slash alerts. >> hello there! well, if you think we've got a problem with think we've got a problem with illegal immigration, it's illegal immigration, it's nothing compared to what's nothing compared to what's happenedin nothing compared to what's happened in the european union happenedin nothing compared to what's happened in the european union since 2015. with huge numbers since 2015. with huge numbers crossing the mediterranean and crossing the mediterranean and also coming into europe from the also coming into europe from the east. and it's really east. and it's really interesting that in germany, a interesting that in germany, a country that has always tried to country that has always tried to be very liberal and tolerant be very liberal and tolerant about these things, politics is about these things, politics is changing very, very quickly. we changing very, very quickly. we saw over the course of the saw over the course of the weekend the afd winning a state weekend the afd winning a state

election, nearly election, nearly winning a second state election in the old east germany and now today, a proposal that comes from germany's migration commissioner joachim stamp, germany's migration commissioner joachim stamp , who germany's migration commissioner joachim stamp, who is saying what we ought to do is to send people to come to germany illegally to wait for it , illegally to wait for it, rwanda, to go into the same blocks that have effectively been built and paid for with british taxpayers money. so what's actually happening? and you can go to scandinavia, you can go to denmark, you can go to germany, you can go down to the south of europe, where you'll find that talk on illegal immigration. political talk is getting very, very tough indeed. and much being said about removing benefits and indeed only this week the deaths of those 12 people just off cap gris—nez was blamed by a french politician on the british for being too generous. but in the light of this german proposal, ask yourself a question. have we gone soft? what do you think?

farage gbnews.com. well, i'm joined down the all

farage gbnews.com. well, i'm joined down theall hundreds but what about all the hundreds more important than eu regulations or e all partly, more important than eu regulations or e all the tly, more important than eu regulations or e all the hundreds but what about all the hundreds of thousands that have joined or of thousands that have joined or come into germany in the come into germany in the european union in the meantime? european union in the meantime? so there is no plan. there is. so there is no plan. there is. this is a very desperate this is a very desperate proposal. >> yeah. as you say , hundreds of proposal. >> yeah. as you say , hundreds of >> yeah. as you say, hundreds of >> yeah. as you say, hundreds of thousands crossing the thousands crossing the mediterranean every single year, mediterranean every single year, 2 to 300,000 every single year. 2 to 300,000 every single year. but i wonder also, so we, of but i wonder also, so we, of course, as you know, had a course, as you know, had a conservative government who conservative government who proposed sending people to proposed sending people to rwanda. and we had a day when rwanda. and we had a day when there was an aeroplane on the there was an aeroplane on the tarmac with people on it , tarmac with people on it , there was an aeroplane on the tarmac with people on it, and a there was an aeroplane on the tarmac with people on it, and a judge in strasbourg from the judge in strasbourg from the european court of human rights european court of human rights said, no, no, no, no, no, you said, no, no, no, no, no, you can't do that. you must think can't do that. you must think again. i mean, what i'm saying again. i mean, what i'm saying is that it's a political gesture, is that it's a political gesture, but would the german government but would the german government even be allowed to do this? even be allowed to do this? >> well, i think we are >> well, i think we are currently in a state of currently in a state of emergency. >> a state of emergency? that is , emergency. >> a state of emergency? that is , >> a state of emergency? that is, more important than eu >> a state of emergency? that is, more important than eu regulations or even partly, regulations or even partly, the

constitutional regulations. so in a state of emergency, the government's utmost

in a state of emergency, the gov debate t's utmost in a state of emergency, the gov debate aboutrost in a state of emergency, the gov debate about water the debate about water today. but let's just begin with this your native country, greece, you know, there's been such anger at the numbers coming that the greek forces have done push back, have turned boats around. we have the germans talking about sending people to rwanda, you know, german politician there saying there's a state of emergency. that means forget what the echr has to say. have we just gone soft in this country with a new labour government compared to everybody else? >> no. i think while the rest of the european union right now is looking at the wrong direction , looking at the wrong direction, the uk is exactly at the right path. what i find very funny about the afd is that suddenly the right wingers in europe are copying each other's wrong answer, and because they don't have a genuine answer to people's problems and they are suggesting they are reheating a plan that has already been proven to be bad because, as we

know, the rwanda policy is too expensive. it's not working. the only reason they are suggesting it is because these conversations have already been taking place with the rwandan government. the uk has thrown off millions of pounds to the rwandan government, so of course , rwandan government, so of course, the rwanda. >> i mean, you think you don't think , stella, that illegal think, stella, that illegal immigration is a problem, do you? >>i you? >> i think it is a problem. i agree, i think it is a problem. i just think that the rwanda plan was an ineffective, extremely expensive plan that would have costed us £150,000 per person. that's an insane amount of money. >> well, ronald, you know the claim that comes now from labour is that rwanda cost the british taxpayer 700 million. whether that's true or not, i don't know. but it was certainly several hundred million. but if i'm a gb news watcher right now and a taxpayer and i'm thinking the germans are going to use accommodation that we've basically paid for, i'd be pretty blooming angry. >> yeah. and i am too. i mean, the truth is the left talk the talk on this and say , oh, it's

talk on this and say, oh, it's a bad thing that there's illegal migration, but they don't do anything about it. and we've seen that from this government. they say that they're going to clamp down on it. they've got no plan on doing that. it's really bad politics for them. of course, having cancelled rwanda, if they believe that it wasn't going to work and we've spent all the money already, why don't they do it and prove that it doesn't work? i happen to believe it will. and this is proof it will because the germans are taking our plan and using it themselves. it's a problem for all of europe. >> it's going to be fascinating to see whether the echr do intervene, and whether germany just chooses to ignore them if it comes to pass. >> exactly. and this is what countries across the european union and indeed across the european continent as a whole, have done. the french are the best example of this. they are part of the echr. we are to the differences. we follow every single diktat from this foreign court, whereas they don't. they ignore it. >> that's because we're british. >> that's because we're british. >> yes, yes, we play by the rules. >> if we're british, we join a club. we play by the rules. the last conservative government was hurt enormously by the english channel hurt enormously by the english channel, hurt politically, much more than it was by the legal

numbers of people coming to britain, despite the fact that the legal numbers had a bigger impact on lives. but it was just the it's the visual impact of the it's the visual impact of the channel of the small boats. it's the sense of unfairness that people are going to get put up in hotels or private accommodation. i don't think that starmer and the labour government have any credible plan at all, do you? >> i have a genuine question for you. if the chances of dying on the channel crossings is not enough to deter illegal immigrants who are asylum seekers, so you do not know how many of these people are illegal immigrants? a lot of them are genuinely well, they're all coming illegally. they are using the only method that's available to them. so under the current law , technically under the law, technically under the current law, they are asylum seekers. so if the chances of them and their children dying on these journeys not enough to deter them, what makes you think that sending them to rwanda

would be enough? and i'm fine with something like the agreement we have with the albanian government. my problem is specifically with this plan, with the rwanda plan. so tell me, why would that be a deterrent? >> well, the idea was that it would be a deterrent, because why would you pay a trafficker ,5,000 or more if your feet wouldn't touch sides once wouldn't touch the sides once you arrived in the uk? and the funny thing is, we had a lot of illegal immigration during the last labour government and people like david blunkett, other labour foreign secretary, other labour foreign secretary, other labour foreign secretary, other labour home secretaries were ruthless. we deported tens of thousands of illegals in at the time of the last labour government. even now and it did stop for some time. the numbers coming. i mean, this is the point, isn't it? you know how is it that a labour government could get rid of people who came illegally in those days, not by boats, in the backs of lorries, literally. and this is where the echr has changed everything, isn't it? yeah. >> i mean, the echr has become more and more political. it's, you know, not alone in the judicial sense of making law and

judges are now taking powers that should be reserved for lawmakers , elected lawmakers. lawmakers, elected lawmakers. i might not like the current government, but they have a mandate to do that. no, i agree with that. and so they've decided, and the people have decided, and the people have decided that the rwanda plan should be scrapped. it's equally open to the people of this country to change that at the next election. but what they can't change are the judges in the european court of human rights. no, no, i'm afraid not how. >> now. >> politics in france. extraordinary. what a mess. what a mess president macron has made of the whole bloomin thing . he's of the whole bloomin thing. he's been struggling. it's been the biggest impasse since 1945. struggling to get a prime minister that the assemblee nationale will accept. and guess who he's picked? michel barnier. yes, the former european commissioner. the man, of course , commissioner. the man, of course, who absolutely ran rings around the british civil service. idiots. and we finished up with the brexit deal . there's nothing the brexit deal. there's nothing like really what many of us voted for. stella i think that the labour government are going to be thrilled with this because they want closer relationships with the european union. they'll

see him as an ally, the one better relationship with the european union. >> they want they want france and the rest of the european union to cooperate, as they have said they are going to do repeatedly, because how else are we going to solve the immigration crisis, as you say? it's not. it's a matter of all of these people coming here. so we need to have very close cooperation with them, whether we like it or not. look i do not like some of these european politicians either. you saw how they treated greece. i do not think they are always logically. i do not think that they are always thinking in a rational way. long term planning for, for the whole of europe. but you do need to be diplomatic with them. you cannot go and tell them in yourin you cannot go and tell them in your in their face that you don't like them. >> we've never said that. we've never brexiteers have never said, you know that south of calais, the whole thing is absolutely ghastly. we've never, ever said it, have we? i mean, we don't believe that either. no, we love europe. >> no, that's right, we love europe. we love europe. we have concerns about the european union. we can't stand. that's right. >> barnier i mean he's quite

clever. >> you've got to admire him and you've got to love his style. you know at every, you know, difficulty that the european union or the french government in this case face, they call for barnier. and you know, he is the indestructible politician . good indestructible politician. good luck to him. but you're right that labour are going to now sees this as an opportunity. and, you know, they've done what barnier said before. they'll do it again. >> they'll see it as an opportunity. but barnier being clever will make them jump over some pretty high hurdles to get what they want, is what i suspect. that, of course, is if barnier survives french politics is in such a mess at the moment, mostly because of the rise of marine le pen's party and they head towards a presidential election in a couple of years time . which, and i've said this time. which, and i've said this before, i think she will probably win. goodness knows what that's going to mean for european politics. final thought on barnier i must tell you this that whenever i was in the tea room, i'm using that euphemistically, you understand. but whenever i was in the tea room in strasbourg, barnier

would always unfailingly cross the room. hello, nigel. i'd stand up, we'd shake hands, we'd exchange pleasantries. really the most incredibly polite, well—mannered , educated man. well—mannered, educated man. just wrong about everything , in just wrong about everything, in my opinion. but, but, but he is a very, very smart operator. in a very, very smart operator. in a moment. well, we're being promised more new, even tougher laws about water bosses that have giant, absolutely enormous bonuses over the years. whilst the levels of sewage spills into our rivers and seas are at a level that is totally unacceptable and really worrying millions of us. and i think this policy campaigning on this perhaps explains why the liberal democrats have got 72 seats in parliament this time round. i'm enraged about what's going on, but i wonder , do tough new laws but i wonder, do tough new laws really change anything? and what do we to do in future to make our

as we scrap rwanda and the german start considering it, i asked you, have we gone soft ? asked you, have we gone soft? john says yes, nigel, the uk have always been soft since maggie was the pm. the asylum seekers no , their chances of seekers no, their chances of their claims being approved are much greater in the uk than in france. and even if their claims are rejected, it's highly unlikely they will be deported. you're absolutely right. it's the fact that they're not going to get deported . it's the fact to get deported. it's the fact that they've got benefits for them. accommodation for them. and that's actually what the french government are saying. there is something in what they say. helen says how interesting the germans see their migration issue as a state of emergency. and keir starmer resorts to name calling millions of his own citizens far right for being seriously concerned. well, i think we'll hear much more about that over the course of the coming months. fair enough. if you listen to the bbc in the morning, virtually every government in the world is now far right. there we are. it's

quite extraordinary. now, water. this really, really matters . as this really, really matters. as i said before the break, you know, i spend my free time on the sea fishing, boating , the sea fishing, boating, whatever. i love the british seaside. i think actually we've seen a resurgence in love for the seaside , particularly since the seaside, particularly since the seaside, particularly since the pandemic. but the idea, the idea and we had a particularly wet last year, the idea that our water systems simply can't cope with excessive rainfall, that we get these outflows of sewage into our rivers and seas that happen on an astonishing scale. i think appals pretty much all of us. i have to say, one of the reasons this is happening, of course, nobody else will say this is the exploding population means the infrastructure we have simply can't cope. that 10 million increase in population since blair was there. but what is clear is that many people running water companies have made really substantial sums of money whilst polluting our environment . money whilst polluting our environment. ranil money whilst polluting our environment . ranil jayawardena environment. ranil jayawardena you were the environment

secretary. you had to face this problem and now it's basically outdated infrastructure, not big enough to cope with where we are. >> yeah, i mean, this infrastructure that we have in this country is basically victorian . and you know, the victorian. and you know, the victorians were streets ahead of the rest of the world. the trouble is we've not done anything since. and you know, when you see even things like reservoirs being blocked by local councils, it's not only the sewage, it's even the water supply that we've not done anything about. but the only reason, of course, we know that there is a problem is that because in the last few years we've started monitoring this. so this has been happening potentially since victorian times, right? yes. the population has grown so that may have created a pressure. yes. you know, the rainfall last year was particularly bad and so on. but this has been happening for a long time. and it's right that we sort this out. so, you know, when i was at the department for the environment, we did put forward hikes to the fines because the fines had been £250,000 under labour, not hiked the entire time that labour was in charge. so i lifted that and

said, we're going to lift that to £250 million. the government then went further to have an unlimited fine to make clear to water companies. and now this must change. >> now they're saying maybe up to two years in prison. well, correct. >> and it's important we look very closely at the definitions here, because we've got to make sure it's actually purposeful. we don't want to lock up people unnecessarily, and i think what's going to happen is if people block investigations, then they are liable for criminal prosecution. fine let's look at the definitions very closely on that. but the important thing here is we've got to make sure that the firms that run water around this country put the investment in, because that's what we actually want to see. we want to see waterways cleaned up. >> we do, we do. but stella, the only way that we get new investment from these firms is if our bills go through the roof, presumably. >> well, yes, that's exactly the problem that i have with public utilities not being owned by the government, not being owned by the people who will have to actually use these utilities. you have private investors who are going to completely asset strip thames water and then the

government will have to come and make do with what we have, which will mean eventually higher bills for the consumer. and we cannot live without water. so we really have very, very limited solutions. >> would you like the government to step in and take control of our water supply? >> i would like utilities to be publicly owned. i think that utilities that we cannot go without, they need to be publicly owned. and i would think the same about energy. i'm not saying that right now. we need to nationalise every single energy company, but in the long term future, it does not make sense to allow private investors what they're going to do, what they do and what they have done. time we see it over and over again. they are going to cut as much as they can. they're not going to invest and they're going to invest and they're going to invest and they're going to make as much profit as possible. >> you know, i know, ronald, that you want to get in on this because you because you think the state runs things very badly and it costs too much and it doesn't work. >> it'll lead to shortages. and yet the failures of these companies mean that stella's line of argument is becoming tempting for more and more people. >> it's worrying that it is becoming tempting. but the truth

is, again, coming back to the point, victorian infrastructure, the state when it owned this infrastructure, did nothing. and you know, when the chancellor, whoever it is, labour, conservative, when the choice is putting more money into schools and hospitals or investing in sewers, they're going to choose the former. but how are we going to solve this problem? >> well, i think and surely it's going to mean much higher bills for many, many years to come. >> it doesn't have to. i mean, first of all, we've got to make sure the sector remains investable. and if firms perform poorly, then i actually do believe that they should be allowed to fail. that's the point of having private sector investment. so people have to take. so do i people have to take. so do i people have to take risk on this. >> they should lose their money. i mean, isn't that the point? >> yes. >> yes. >> the point is they should lose their money. the problem is that you are allowing a public utility company to fail. so this is going to impact their consumers. it's not as simple as having government. >> no, that's not the way it works. so the consumer gets looked after. the water remains in people's pipes and taps. the

government steps in. but the difference is that the private sector is the bit that's lost the money. but here's the thing you've got to retain investability in the sector, which means not putting too many restrictions on things like planning for reservoirs. and we've got to make sure that people do have we built any reservoirs? >> i mean, none we've not built any. >> and, you know, if you look at the one in oxfordshire, for example, this has been planned for decades. there's one in cambridgeshire that's been planned for decades. no one allows them to happen. those are the things that we need to get changed. it's not all about bills. it's also about making the system work better. >> maybe the new planning laws that labour may bring in maybe will make it easier to build reservoirs. >> i hope so, you hope so. >>— >> i hope so, you hope so. >> there we are. hope is there that a labour government can do something good? well, of course, and that's the point actually, that even though you fight against each other at elections, you do actually genuinely hope that the government of the day does the right thing. now, just a little minor victory. you'll remember when it was first proposed that raf scampton was to be used as a migrant site, and that many of the historic artefacts that were there at

scampton, things that were owned by guy gibson, his office, were being moved and put into storage, frankly, at the royal air force museum in hendon. i went immediately up to scampton. i broadcast this programme live from the dambusters pub and if you're ever in lincolnshire, you really ought to go and visit it. and i was just appalled that we were going to do this with something that i thought was so historically significant. well, the plan has been scrapped. but before you cheer, before you cheen before you cheer, before you cheer, i'm afraid what it'll mean is the people that would have gone to scampton will be going into social housing or the private rental sector, and frankly, an historic site may have been saved, but nobody will be that much better off. and an interview, dame alison rose, do you remember her? dame alison rose, she was the absolutely the wonder star of british banking. well, that's until i came along and she she's done an interview, and she she's done an interview, a podcast in which she insists that her leadership was

courageous and honest . yes, for courageous and honest. yes, for me, it's always about acting with integrity, empathy , respect with integrity, empathy, respect and treating people well as they join you and as they leave you. oh, yesterday , madison. and yes, oh, yesterday, madison. and yes, of course you question net zero and don't think actually that open borders are a very good idea, in which case then you simply get de—banking courageous and honest. sorry don't believe and honest. sorry don't believe a single blooming word of it. well, there were 92 hereditary peers left in the house of lords, and the proposal is simply to get rid of them. that is what labour want to do. will that give us a better. give us a smaller house of lords? will it give us a better house of lords? is that really the kind of reform that we need, or should we be thinking much, much more deeply about the important second lord strathclyde joins me in

well unsurprisingly, the labour government is set to banish the last 92 remaining hereditary peers. now the house of lords has become absolutely gigantic. there are 805 members of it and don't forget they did this back in the 1990s. they got rid of hundreds of hereditary peers. and what do they do? well, blair appointed 374. cameron appointed 245.so appointed 374. cameron appointed 245. so they got rid of the hereditaries and filled it up with their mates and party donors. and i don't think the standing of the house of lords has ever been lower in british pubuc has ever been lower in british public opinion than it is today. people can see it , public opinion than it is today. people can see it, sadly for what it is, it's being used simply for patronage. in my case, a totally corrupt attempt to try and buy us off. a few years ago, before the 2019 general election, which i refused, but quite disgusting. tom strathclyde, lord strathclyde, former leader of the house of lords, 92 of you

survived the last cull. this is the end of the road. >> well, i very much like your introduction because you laid out exactly what the problem is that the hereditaries got kicked out at the end of the last century, 92 were sent behind and all the blairites did was to stuff the house with their cronies, with their placemen. and that's what they're going to do. again, it is too rich a target. and so they want to get rid of 40 odd conservatives, 30 odd crossbenchers and, and, and that's the opposition. and then they will replace them with their own people. i fully expect 50 new peers to be created over the next few months by starmer and his gang . that's why it's and his gang. that's why it's important. and then we will never get the kind of proper reform that would really serve the interests of this country. >> i mean, clearly you'd like to stay in the house of lords. you've been a very active member of it and held senior position in it. but if we are going to have a wholesale reform or a

reform of the house of lords, what do you think the right thing to do is what i said this morning when we were we weren't discussing because they didn't want to discuss it. >> i managed to get the lords speaker to drag them to the despatch box and make some kind of a statement was if it's all about numbers and you just want to get rid of a few people, why not get rid of the 100 200 people who hardly ever come to the house of lords because they are disinterested, because they've got nothing to say, because they're doing other things, or they're 93. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> well , yes. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> well, yes. i mean, it's labour who have proposed an age limit, but there's nothing in this bill or , toughening up the this bill or, toughening up the appointment system. i mean, we're going to have a second chamber where the only way in is because the prime minister has ticked your name in a box. yeah. i mean, i'm not many countries that do that . so should we move? that do that. so should we move? >> should we move to should we move to an elected chamber with expert committees? is that is that perhaps the way to go? >> there are there are a few choices. one is elected and i'm

actually quite keen on an 80% elected house, 20%. i respect are not are people who do not want to be elected, perhaps civil servants, trade unionists, captains of industry, ambassadors, you know, blah blah blah. i'm sure you don't like that, but not much. but they do have a place and a purpose in government . government. >> but but but predominantly elected. yes. >> i mean, what's wrong with people electing their political representatives? no. other countries do it . countries do it. >> i think lord strathclyde makes a very powerful point. i mean, this is not really reform stellar, is it? i mean, i mean, it's not is it? >> no, i think i think i agree, i think i think that you are you're making some very good, some very good points about having elected representatives, although i still think even though i even though it is a very it is a very foreign bizarre system. >> i do think there is a value to knowing that you're going to have experts. and the problem i see with experts is that very often they are not very good at doing politics, so they're not going to be very good at getting

getting elected. at the same time, you do have to do to politics be picked by the government of the day, but you can in the house of lords, you can in the house of lords, you can through committees, appoint whatever experts you want from whatever experts you want from whatever field it may be. >> the same. and they can't, they can't. >> they can't be ministers. >> they can't be ministers. >> yes, yes, exactly. >> yes, yes, exactly. >> i don't know . >> yes, yes, exactly. >> i don't know. i think anyone can be a minister. >> there is value in having ministers who are in the house of lords who, you know, they're not elected members of parliament. >> well, general, i mean, you know, your lot, you know, i mean, you've actually the conservatives have appointed more peers than tony blair did. now, if you add them all up over the years, i mean, it just looks corrupt as hell. >> well, look, i mean, i think the point is, doesn't it? well, clearly there have been many stories on that sort of line of thought . but the stories on that sort of line of thought. but the bigger point here is, given all the problems that this country is allegedly facing, to according the labour party, why are we going to expend a huge amount of political time right now on removing 90 people from the house of lords? if the situation

is as bad as rachel reeves keeps saying it is, if they have a plan on on migration , which plan on on migration, which yvette cooper says she has, why aren't we dealing with those problems? why are we bringing forward a bill now? >> well, you could have argued that back in the 90s. correct. but, but, but i think the government would view this as being a popular measure. i don't think anyone cares, but. well, it's not it's not top of the list. yeah yeah, it's a bit of envy creeping in there too. but here's the argument i've always heard over the years against an elected house of lords or predominantly elected house of lords, and it is that it would then become a very direct competition to an elected house of commons, and that you might finish up, you know, with a situation where nothing was accepted by the upper house that had gone through the lower house because of different election cycles, how would you how would we perhaps do it differently and have a one year, seven year term or something like that? >> very possible. i mean, i think there are lots of different ways of looking at it. and in 2012, there was a proposal for an 8020 house,

which ultimately didn't get through the house of commons precisely for the reason that you laid out. and that's a perfectly good point. but the more serious point is that constitutional change in this country is normally managed on a cross—party and consensual basis people getting together, working out what the problems are and deciding on on what the right way should be for doing it. there is. that's what happened. 25 years ago when the then lord chancellor, lord irvine of lairg, megxit solemn undertaking that the 92 would remain behind until labour came up with their proposals for change and they had a royal commission . had a royal commission. >> we haven't got any. >> we haven't got any. >> no, nothing happens and nothing will happen again. if the hereditary peers are flung out. >> i sense that that is absolutely right. he's right, isn't he? >> no. >> no. >> i think that this is a very good first step, and it's small enough so that it doesn't waste too much time. >> it's. >> it's. >> but but what's to come? >> but but what's to come? >> well, i mean, it's interesting that if they feel so

strongly about reform of the house of lords, they're not deaung house of lords, they're not dealing with the age limit. they're not dealing with the bishops in the house of lords. i mean, i might have a different position to labour on this, but if they believe in this, these are the things they tackle right now. and expend a huge amount of political time in doing that is they're going to fill it up with party donors and mates, aren't they? >> come on, stella, that's what's going to happen. you know, you want them to spend too much time on this, or do you want them to spend less time on this? >> because there are more important problems. they shouldn't do it at all. surely the people why bother? they definitely should not be in the house of lords. are hereditary peers and then you can go ahead and look at other reforms. but surely we can all agree if your dad or your granddad was a peer, you do not deserve to be in the house of lords just because they're the elected ones. >> of course. well, ironically, the reason, and this is perhaps explained to the audience how oddly the 92 are elected, it is very odd. >> but in 1998 they were basically all flung out. the labor party agreed that 92 should stay behind, and they were elected by their peers to

do so . so arguably they're the do so. so arguably they're the most democratic party. you now house of lords, you now have by elections. well yes they do. >> yeah. yeah. i mean they have now been suspended because, you know , so there's no hereditary know, so there's no hereditary peers . peers. >> i have no means of passing on to my heir. my seat in the house of lords. not now. so that doesn't happen. so it's all gone. and that's why the labour party are making a mountain out of a molehill. it is an old fashioned political scam. it is partly class based, and it's a desire to get rid of the opposition in the house of lords so they can control the second chamber as effectively as they control the first. >> well, i'm afraid they have a whopping great majority in the house of commons, and i think this will simply happen. lord strathclyde, thank you very much. stella randall, thank you for joining me in a moment. i've forjoining me in a moment. i've been joined by energy expert clive moffatt. we're going to take a deep dive into gb energy . take a deep dive into gb energy. what the legislation actually says. will it work? and in

particular, what i want to focus on is this promise that more renewables will give us cheaper energy for the future. because got to tell you r i ,iam , i am very, very sceptical indeed

it's an issue that's going to get bigger and bigger over the course of the next few years. it is, of course, about the cost of energy. it is about energy security. it's even at times a debate about whether the lights will stay on. and that's all because gb energy is being launched by the new labour government, and they've really gone back to the boris days of saying, let's become the saudi arabia of wind. well, i'm joined, i'm very pleased to be joined, i'm very pleased to be joined by energy analyst, founder and chairman of the uk energy security group and friend of this program , clive moffatt. of this program, clive moffatt. clive, first things first. there was you came in about 11 months ago when we chatted. there was

an auction for commercial companies to bid to put wind farms in the north sea. not a single bid was was received correct this week. 171 bids for onshore offshore, even floating experimental. yeah how how have this government been so successful at getting people to bid? >> well, they put up the guaranteed strike price, almost doubled it to £72 per megawatt hour. doubled it to £72 per megawatt hour . so that doubled it to £72 per megawatt hour. so that got over doubled it to £72 per megawatt hour . so that got over the hour. so that got over the biggest one of the biggest hurdles, which was the cost of caphal hurdles, which was the cost of capital. most of these projects are 80 over 20. in terms of loan versus equity. so attracting big institutional investors is important. and they're looking for since interest rate rise, they're looking for more than 10%. so that plus a lot of supply problems was causing problems for developers. but i even so i still think that it's just the beginning of what will be an increasing demand by developers for an even higher strike price as we go forward at

a higher strike price has got to mean higher energy bills. indeed.so mean higher energy bills. indeed. so exactly right . and indeed. so exactly right. and it's one of the biggest threats, is that the cost of energy will increase because i think we are at a situation where they got only that recent auction that it was five gigawatts of offshore . was five gigawatts of offshore. and greenpeace pointed out that basically half of what you need per year to reach the target of 506w of per year to reach the target of 50gw of offshore wind by 2030, unachievable, isn't it? it's unachievable. it's not going to happen, and so to force the pace, the labour government may well decide, well, we'll throw more money at it. so it would increase the price again. and as you quite rightly say, we are almost at a tipping point between the price of electricity and the price of the strike price. the value of the strike price, where in fact we're going to get into an area of subsidy

and payments into energy bills by customers . so i and payments into energy bills by customers. so i think that is an issue. yes, definitely . an issue. yes, definitely. >> and the concept of gb energy, the concept of this big company that's been set up, have you had a chance to look through this and really, really examine it? >> well, it's at the heart of the dedication of the government to effectively decarbonise fully the electricity system by 2030. but it's very small. it's a drop in the ocean if you compare what in the ocean if you compare what in fact is required in terms of billions of pounds of new investment to meet the volume targets that have been set. the gb energy is actually a drop in the ocean with its 8 billion. right. so effectively and also we don't know the projects or the technologies that they're going to be involved with. but my feeling is that it's not going to make a heap of difference to the actual achievement of the volume target , achievement of the volume target, i think the issue about security is very important. i think there

are two issues here. one is what does that target for 2030 mean for energy security and what doesit for energy security and what does it mean for energy costs now for security, it's a major issue because if we don't achieve the volume target and we basically don't do anything to underpin gas, there are 32 gas stations in the united kingdom which back up. 17 of them have reached the end of their economic life. another seven will reach the end of their lives by 2030, so you could end up with a romp of only seven active operational gas stations, providing essential flexible supply of power with only ten gigawatt of capacity. so we have a serious issue about what happens if we don't have if we have intermittent, we have intermittent problem . so what intermittent problem. so what happens if you have that intermittent problem when you've written off gas into the system ? written off gas into the system? >> i think logic suggests the lights go out. >> energy rationing . and i >> energy rationing. and i understand that there are

certain members of the national grid board who are forecasting that blackouts, rationing may well become , happen by 2028. but well become, happen by 2028. but the so we have a situation where the so we have a situation where the government is taking enormous risks with security. the other option, of course, is to import power. and we have been doing that last winter . we been doing that last winter. we did that. but that can be very expensive. but it might not be available because the rest of europe might want the power as well as us. and you end up with a situation where we're having to pay on a daily rate. that price can rise to £2,000 per megawatt hour, which is and compared to a spot price for wholesale of electricity here of around 130. so you have a security fundamental problem. and on cost there are three cost elements. we've mentioned one, which is the cost of subsidies for renewable generation , the for renewable generation, the second one is the cost of grid .

second one is the cost of grid. how much is it going to cost to reconfigure the grid? to take the wind from us? we have to build. >> we have to build enormous pylons from an essex, suffolk, norfolk, lincolnshire, yorkshire and the national grid have come up with a budget which they consider to be able to fast track offshore wind from the north to the south at 50 billion. >> but nothing's been much spent on that 50 billion so far. so you end up with a situation well , you end up with a situation well, let's assume that ed miliband achieves his volume target for renewables and all that quadrupling of offshore wind , quadrupling of offshore wind, tripling of solar power and doubung tripling of solar power and doubling of offshore onshore wind is achieved. you still might not be able to get it transmitted. so there's a gap. there's a problem with that. and that's that's a cost. somebody's got to fund that cost. and the other problem is market balancing. as we said, these are intermittent supplies. yeah there's two two issues. the

import costs of electricity can be very high. and the other cost is particularly if you can't transmit the power, you've got a constraint problem. you still have to pay the developers . now have to pay the developers. now in 2021 that cost was 400 million. grid are estimating that that could be 2.5 billion by 20 2526. >> if you're somebody who understands this industry inside out , you're understands this industry inside out, you're giving us the warnings of what could happen, what could go wrong. we're not having a proper national debate. are we? >> it's very sad that you and i have been discussing this for a long, what, two years? yeah. and i mentioned, i think we discussed then that advocacy of policy has overtaken robust analysis on this subject and still does. yeah. there was a debate this afternoon in the house, as you know. yeah. and about gb energy and we still haven't had a comprehensive set of estimates which look at the whole thing of the project in

terms of costs and benefits . terms of costs and benefits. >> but the whole political class, clive, nearly all of them are taken in by net zero. they believe the belief they're saving the world. that's what's really behind all of this, isn't it? >> there's a doctrinaire approach here, and i think mr miliband is an exponent of that doctrinaire approach. i i'd hoped that there are people within the labour movement like the gmb union. gary smith yeah , the gmb union. gary smith yeah, who i know who would have said, hang on, was a warning here. we might not be able to get the grid up and running the way you want it for 15 years, not 20, 30. so we have to take a more cautious, maybe a more balanced approach. but that is not happening. >> clive moffatt as ever, it's always an absolute pleasure to have you on. we always get enormous reaction from our audience whenever clive is on, because he actually knows what he's talking about. and as he says, so much of politics is just doctrinaire, not backed up with facts. now jacob rees mogg

has gone through a slight transformation. in fact, it's miriam cates former conservative member of parliament here this evening . miriam, welcome. evening. miriam, welcome. >> good evening. and yes, i am jacob rees—mogg tonight. >> what are you going to be discussing ? discussing? >> well, we've got an exclusive interview with katharine birbalsingh , britain's strictest birbalsingh, britain's strictest headmistress, talking about the relationship between good discipline in school and great results and her fears for the labour government and the kind of change they're going to bring. of change they're going to bnng.and of change they're going to bring. and sticking with the education theme, we've also got a london mother coming in to talk about her fight, to see what her children are being taughtin what her children are being taught in school. in fact, she's had to go to court to find out more. >> yeah, i mean, i have to say, those figures that were out from the british social attitudes survey earlier this week showing that you know, that a majority of the under 25 seconds think british history is appalling and they're ashamed of it. this is education, isn't it? >> absolutely. and we know that lots of children are coming out of school, having been taught that we should be ashamed of our history. i know not even taught the truth about history. and i suppose the question is, at what point do we have to say we

should be able to see what's taughtin should be able to see what's taught in schools? and enough is enough. >> quite right that parents should thank you. but before that, let's have the weather with aidan mcgivern. >> it looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello again. welcome to the latest update from the met office for gb news. it's been a miserable end to the day for the south and southwest , and we'll south and southwest, and we'll see further spells of heavy rain dunng see further spells of heavy rain during the next 24 to 48 hours. around this area of low pressure that's sitting over the continent. that's pushing some weather fronts up into the south, but they are tending to stall. having said that, overnight, the heaviest of the rain will tend to fizzle away for a time. still, some heavy showers around towards the south—east wales for a time, but otherwise a lot of cloud across the uk, especially in the south and the east. that low cloud will lead to a misty start in places on friday morning, and a mild start 15 to 17 celsius. a muqqy mild start 15 to 17 celsius. a muggy night to come for many of us, but it's not going to be

cloudy everywhere, certainly towards west and scotland. we'll see blue skies first thing on friday. plenty of sunshine out there and already a warm start to the day. it's going to get warmer as the day progresses. northern ireland seeing some decent sunshine, particularly towards the west. likewise for southwest scotland , cumbria, southwest scotland, cumbria, lancashire, north wales these are the areas where we didn't see much summery weather during the summer, but on friday and saturday we'll see plenty of warm sunshine. instead. the midlands, east anglia , some midlands, east anglia, some sunshine for a time, but across south wales into the south of england, mostly around the m4 corridor and southwards, they'll be thick cloud and they'll be heavy outbreaks of rain on and off through the day, increasingly focused across parts of somerset, devon and cornwall . that could cause some cornwall. that could cause some issues. localised flooding , issues. localised flooding, transport disruption, that sort of thing. but elsewhere we've got the sunshine 25 to 27 celsius, even as far north as northwest scotland. now saturday starts off similarly, but as we

go through the day there'll be less rain. i think across southern parts. still some showery outbreaks around, but otherwise a few dry. a few drier interludes to be had as well. a lot of cloud elsewhere, increasingly so through the weekend and becoming a little cooler. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news

>> well . >> well. >> well. >> hello. good evening. i'm miriam cates standing in for jacob rees—mogg on state of the nafion jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation tonight as labour begins an overhaul of the education system , i'll be speaking to two system, i'll be speaking to two women on the front line of the battle to protect our children. britain's strictest headteacher, katharine birbalsingh, joins me in just a moment, followed by london mother claire page, who is appealing a court's decision to block parents from knowing

what is being taught to their children. meanwhile, the bbc has pledged to cut more than 100 jobs while spending tens of millions of pounds of your money on diversity initiatives. plus, as priti patel becomes the first of the tory leadership, candidates to be eliminated, i'll be joined by the former chief brexit negotiator lord frost, once described as the greatest frost since the great frost of 1709, state of the nafion frost of 1709, state of the nation starts now . nation starts now. i'll also be joined later by my panel gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson and lois mcclatchey miller, who is the senior legal communications officer at the alliance for defending freedom . as ever, let defending freedom. as ever, let me know your views throughout the programme. email mailmogg@gbnews.com. now it's time for the news bulletin with sophia wenzler