video message as well. the princess is set to begin a gradual return to public engagements while doing what she to can stay cancer free, and sir keir starmer insists his cabinet backs the decision to cut winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners. but with a growing rebellion from his own mps, the trade unions and the public, will the vote tomorrow shake his determination and forget the pressure in parliament? what about pressure on our jails? tomorrow is the day . 1700 tomorrow is the day. 1700 prisoners are set to be released

early in england and wales. where will they go and what happens if they reoffend? and we've made mistakes. the met have finally admitted they got things a tad wrong with the policing of pro—palestine protests. they still claim there's no such thing as two tier policing and some news from down under. i wonder what you make of this. the australian government is set to impose a nationwide ban on children accessing social media. should the uk follow suit . well, that's the uk follow suit. well, that's all to come in the next hour with you until 7:00, but let's get the latest news headlines . get the latest news headlines. >> good evening. i'm sophia wenzler with your headlines just after 6:00. as you've been hearing, the princess of wales has finished her chemotherapy treatment and said her focus is to stay cancer free. she made the announcement in a heartfelt

family video showing her spending private time with prince william and her children. princess catherine revealed in march that she was undergoing cancer treatment , and has been cancer treatment, and has been out of the public eye since then. she is set to carry out a few engagements this year, which could include remembrance events in november and her annual christmas carol concert . christmas carol concert. meanwhile, gun salutes are marking the anniversary of the king's accession today. a 62 gun royal salute was fired by the honourable artillery company at the tower of london and marks a two year anniversary of king charles taking to the throne. earlier, the 41 gun salute took place in hyde park in london. that salute fired by the king's troop royal horse artillery. it also marks the passing of the late queen elizabeth the second. in other news, stephen ling, who raped and stabbed joanne tulip 60 times in a sadistic murder in northumberland 27 years ago, should be freed from prison .

should be freed from prison. that's according to the parole board. stephen ling was jailed for life in december 1998 after admitting his horrific attack on joanne, who was 29 years old. ling was sentenced to life with a minimum term of 20 years, which was reduced to 18 years by the high court. transport secretary louise haigh said her thoughts are with joanne's family first and foremost. >> all my thoughts are with joanne tulip's family and everyone who loved her. this is an appalling situation for them to have lived through and now be worrying about. i know the justice secretary is considering whether that decision can be appealed and whether it can be reconsidered , whether she can reconsidered, whether she can request for the parole board to reconsider it. but it is an independent parole board now. >> downing street says sir keir starmer's cabinet is united behind plans to cut winter fuel payments for millions of pensioners. it comes after leaders of two of the biggest unions have put further pressure

on the government to soften its policy. unite and the pcs union have both criticised the plan, while paul nowak, head of the trades union congress, says the government should rethink the plan and consider other lines of support for pensioners. mps will vote tomorrow on the plans to scrap the payment. speaking at the tuc conference in brighton, paul nowak said he'll work with the government to rebuild public services. >> play our part in recasting britain's industrial future and above all, we will work with the government to face down those on the right who wish to sow division and discord in our communities and our message to the tinpot politicians, the street thugs and any rag tag group that tries to promote their message of hate is clear. not in our workplaces, not in our communities, not on our watch. >> now, hollywood actor idris elba has joined the prime minister in downing street to launch a new effort to tackle knife crime. elba, an anti—knife

crime campaigner, joined sir keir starmer this morning as he launched the coalition which aims to stop young people from being dragged into violent gangs. the coalition will bring together campaign groups, families of people who've lost their lives to knife crime and young people who've been affected by it, as well as idris and the home secretary, yvette cooper. and the home secretary, yvette cooper . meanwhile, the cooper. meanwhile, the metropolitan police says it's very likely arrests will be made more quickly when it handles large protests in the future. assistant commissioner matt twist also admitted the force didn't get everything right when policing recent demonstrations, frequent protests and counter—demonstrations have been held since last october, including for environmental campaigners and from groups calling for a ceasefire in the israel—hamas conflict. protests also developed into rioting and disorder after three girls were killed in an attack in southport in july , and a man who took his in july, and a man who took his own life after appearing on the jeremy kyle show was left

distraught and broken, an inquest has heard, after he returned from filming steve diamond's landlady michelle thaxter, said she had never seen a man cry so much after he recorded an episode of the itv programme. the 63 year old was found dead a week later in his room in portsmouth, from the combined effect of an overdose and a heart condition split up. those are the latest gb news headlines. for now, i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code , alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> thanks, sofia and welcome to dewbs& co with me emily carver. i'm standing in for michelle dewberry this evening and with me until seven. my panel ben habib, former deputy leader of reform uk and also ella whelan,

journalist and commentator. thank you very much indeed. and please do at home get in touch as always. gbnews.com/yoursay is the way to do so. you can also tweet us @gbnews or at javier milei if you want to get in touch, now we are going to show a beautiful video message from the princess of wales . the princess of wales. kensington palace has released this in relation to her cancer treatment. let's have a watch . treatment. let's have a watch. >> you lead the way. as the summer comes to an end. i cannot tell you what a relief it is to have finally completed my chemotherapy treatment . the last chemotherapy treatment. the last nine months have been incredibly tough for us as a family life. as you know, it can change in an instant , and we've as you know, it can change in an instant, and we've had to find a way to navigate the stormy waters and road unknown . the waters and road unknown. the cancer journey is complex, scary and unpredictable for everyone, especially those closest to you .

especially those closest to you. with humility, it also brings you face to face with your own vulnerabilities in a way you've never considered before . and never considered before. and with that, a new perspective on everything . everything. >> it just filming . hello, hello . >> it just filming. hello, hello. >> it just filming. hello, hello. >> this time has above all, reminded william and me to reflect and be grateful for the simple yet important things in life which so many of us often for take granted of simply loving and being loved . doing loving and being loved. doing what i can to stay cancer free is now my focus . although i have is now my focus. although i have finished chemotherapy, my path to healing and full recovery is long and i must continue to take each day as it comes . i am, each day as it comes. i am, however, looking forward to

being back at work and undertaking a few more public engagements in the coming months when i can. despite all that's gone before i enter this new phase of recovery with a renewed sense of hope and appreciation of life . thank you so much . of life. thank you so much. william and i are so grateful for the support we've received and have drawn great strength from all those who are helping us at this time. from all those who are helping us at this time . everyone's us at this time. everyone's kindness, empathy and compassion has been truly humbling . don't has been truly humbling. don't forget that in your head to all those who are continuing their own cancer journey, those who are continuing their own cancerjourney, i remain with you side by side, hand in hand. with you side by side, hand in hand . out of darkness can come hand. out of darkness can come light . so let that light shine light. so let that light shine bright .

>> well, there we go. there's the personal message from the princess of wales, from kensington palace, and we can now go live to kensington palace and speak to gb news royal correspondent, cameron walker. cameron, a very moving personal message there from the princess of wales, beautifully created and of course , wonderful news and of course, wonderful news that she has completed her chemotherapy treatment. we also have an idea of when we may see her. >> yeah, absolutely. emily, it was a deeply personal and really intimate insight into the

princess's world over the last nine months or so. and what a nine months or so. and what a nine months or so. and what a nine months it has been. first, that major abdominal surgery in a central london hospital, followed by a cancer diagnosis and then a course of preventative chemotherapy. but i think what that video showed us was the also the deep love and support that her immediate family have given her over the last nine months or so through that recovery and the sanctuary that recovery and the sanctuary that nature has given her. prince william, of course, her husband, prince george, princess charlotte and prince louis, even the family dog orla and the princess of wales to two parents, mike and carole middleton , featuring in that middleton, featuring in that video there. this is clearly good news. it's a positive step , good news. it's a positive step, but the princess, i understand, is not completely out of the woods yet. she is focused on her recovery. she is focused on being cancer free. she is no longer having chemotherapy, but there is no sign from kensington palace that she is completely clear from cancer. at this stage. but there is cause for a lot of optimism actually, because the princess confirms in

that video message that she is expected to carry out a number of public engagements this autumn, a handful of public engagements is how it was described to me, and there are there is planning, i understand, for the annual traditional carol concert at westminster abbey in december , and for the princess december, and for the princess to attend the remembrance sunday service at the cenotaph in central london in november. amongst a number of other engagements, perhaps including some early childhood engagements as well. a deep passion of the princess of wales. but none of thatis princess of wales. but none of that is confirmed, and what i can read into that is that are still very much good days and bad days with her health, and i think it's going to be much closer to the time when kensington palace feel comfortable enough, when the princess feels well enough to confirm that she will be attending those engagements. that video, shot in norfolk by a very trusted independent videographer for the prince and princess of wales will war. he also shot the behind the scenes video of the prince and princess and their children during the coronation in may 2023 that behind the scenes video we've also had a update from the king

and queen this afternoon who have expressed that, who have both said that it is very good news, according to a spokesperson from buckingham palace , it is wonderful news palace, it is wonderful news that the princess has finished her chemotherapy and that they will continue to give the princess the love and support she needs to get through and to become cancer free, which clearly is her. her goal. so baby steps cause for optimism. she has finished her chemotherapy not quite out of the woods yet, but certainly it looks like she is very much planning for the future here today. >> thank you very much indeed . >> thank you very much indeed. catherine walker, our royal correspondent. so tentatively, some very good news there from kensington palace , and we may kensington palace, and we may well see the princess of wales at the cenotaph on remembrance day. and also for that carol service in the run up to christmas. so fingers crossed for that. but we are going to turn now our attention to politics, because around 50 labour mps could refuse to back the government's controversial plan to cut the winter fuel allowance tomorrow. the health

secretary, wes streeting, says he's not remotely happy about the plans but insists it's a necessary move. number 10 also insists that every member of the cabinet are behind this move. but there are many rumblings rebellions even from these mps, but also from the trade unions and of course, from the public and of course, from the public and lots of age related charity groups. so what's going to happen here? should we bring in ben habib first? i mean, ben , ben habib first? i mean, ben, why do you think sir keir starmer is picking this particular battle? >> well, i think it's obvious in a way, isn't it? they've chosen the remarkable thing here is that the unions have come out and criticised starmer. but of course, you know, public spending by the government is a matter of making choices. and what this government has chosen to do, amongst other, spending pledges, is to reward the unions it has given in to aslef, it gave in to the junior doctors. it spent a lot of money on settling those those , you know, settling those those, you know, those those strikes and it now

faces the difficult , difficult faces the difficult, difficult position of having to balance the books. and they've chosen to target, i think , quite target, i think, quite cynically, what they would regard as conservative party voters. and you know, they can politically, they can lose a few pensioner votes. >> is that what you're saying? >> is that what you're saying? >> well, i mean, you know, yeah, i think that they're targeting typically conservative voters who they don't think, you know, won't result in a political backlash for the for the labour party. but it's the unions who they rewarded through the, through, you know , settling through, you know, settling these, these strikes with high wage settlements that have also come out against the government andindeed come out against the government and indeed 50, at least 50 labour mps. the other striking thing i just want to highlight, while we're while we're on the subject, is we locked down the entire economy in order to protect very significantly the elderly and that's what caused

the cost of living crisis. that's what caused the massive budget hole that we now find. the united kingdom in. and they are now going to let, by their own calculations, 4000 pensioners die in order to save 1.5 billion. so we spent 500 billion locking the economy down. and now we're going to save 1.5 billion by letting old people die. well, that's a pretty strong point, ella. >> do you think there's a contradiction there? >> quite possibly. i mean, it's been very embarrassing, sort of 24 to 48 hours for the labour party because those figures did come from their own calculations in 2017, the 4000 number. and that was before we had the sort of significant fuel crises that we've had in the last few years related to the war in ukraine, but also related to inefficiencies here, you know , inefficiencies here, you know, people forget that this all this talk about, you know, the environment and net zero and all the rest of it, people forget that this country gets very cold

in the winter. it's just a simple fact and that it is a big problem. that and it's always been a sort of almost accepted fact that old people do die in the winter and rather than putting in some kind of measures to make that fact different or to make that fact different or to change it, and to maybe reduce those numbers, the labour party does seem to have gone after this particular group, but for me, the problem isn't necessarily the i don't think we should fetishise the winter fuel payment. you know, we should . a payment. you know, we should. a government should be focused on, you know, making pensions better, making it so that people don't have to have this subsidy. how about putting in some policies that don't, you know , policies that don't, you know, that make fuel cheaper or a bigger sort of emphasis on energy rather than ed miliband sort of projects to make us all freeze rather than just pensioners. yeah, but. >> well, well said ella. can i just endorse that ditch net zero? absolutely. right. >> which is, which is a popular it's a popular opinion the labour party is being tended to. but for me, the biggest, the sort of weirdest thing about this is how performative starmer and the labour party are being.

i mean , it's not like this is an i mean, it's not like this is an ideological announcement saying we decided that out of all the things we could cut, we've decided to go for this thing . decided to go for this thing. you know, every single mp that's been quoted, you know , quite been quoted, you know, quite infamously, diana johnson this morning, i think embarrassing her own party by saying it's not our fault. it's almost like liz truss has got a, you know, has got a hold on everyone . got a hold on everyone. >> yes. >> yes. >> and it absolutely is their fault . but >> and it absolutely is their fault. but just the point is, either you say that this is something that we've decided to do as a government in control with a mandate. all the stuff they say all the time or you say, we've got no control here and the tories are leading us. i mean, it's completely performative. >> that's a very interesting point, isn't it? because there are some ministers who are trying to argue that this isn't a choice. now, everything is a choice when it comes to down politics. there are trade offs. if you choose to pay train drivers, for example, or at least offer them 15% pay increase. well funnily enough, that may well mean that you don't have enough money to spend on winter fuel payments or

anything else, or 11 billion on foreign climate change projects , foreign climate change projects, which ed miliband has resolved to do. >> or 3 billion a year. whether or not we agree with it on the ukrainian war or all the billions that, as i've mentioned, you know , settling mentioned, you know, settling these pay, these pay demands, it's a matter of choices. and one other big elephant in the room , paying the banks £35 room, paying the banks £35 billion a year on the pool of cash that was created for the banksin cash that was created for the banks in order to rescue them. you know, they could save 35 billion a year like that by switching off that interest payment. yet they won't do it. and then they then complain that they've got a £22 billion black hole so they can push through these changes, which actually are shocking when you think about the hypocrisy of starmer getting up in parliament, challenging the conservatives to confirm that they will not remove the winter fuel benefit. >> exactly. well, you can make

an ideological argument to or a practical argument. pragmatic argument to means test winter fuel payments. there are, of course, wealthy pensioners who don't need the money, but that doesn't seem to be what they're trying to do, does it? how do you think the trade unions are behaving? i'm going to show a little clip of paul nowak, who's the general secretary of the trade union congress. absolutely. going to town on nigel farage. but before that, just generally because obviously they're getting very angry at this, then they're saying we're going to be working very closely with the government on workers rights and all this. then they've got the pay offers, the increases there. it's all seems to be a bit jumbled. well look, the labour party has always got on pretty well with the unions because they, you know, neither are in any way sort of pushing for working class interests. >> and they haven't for a very long time. i mean, that's the sort of certainly the lie about the labour party and it's become over the last few decades, increasingly obvious about unions who are much more

comfortable, you know, speaking in the realm of culture wars, which i think are important part of politics. but, you know, tuc, high ups talking about, cancel culture and, you know, what their members should and shouldn't be allowed to say on social media and, you know, all the rest of it, they're far more interested in all of the politics. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> doing doing that rather than arguing for the sort of bread and butter of workers issues, which is wages and things like that. and, you know, the actually paul nowak has been less effusive about the winter. he's sort of sort of skirted around the winter fuel payment thing when he was making his announcement, because there's a, there's a the point here is what you can see overarching is there's the message that starmer and the labour party want to get out is that we're a successful government that can do things. there's a again, there's a performative element to this. they want to go into party conference mode and be really boosterish. but do you not think the unions are working with them on that? do you not think every step of the way since they took office? >> and admittedly, you know, grant starmer, his his excuse

that he makes that he's only beenin that he makes that he's only been in office for nine weeks or whatever it is, but every step, everything they've done has revealed them to be largely incompetent. no, no, better than the tories before them. and how long can this performative. >> well, i think the important point to note is that this all is to me, very unsurprising because from, you know, pre pre—election campaigning, the labour party was very open and saying that they were pro—austerity they didn't quite use the a word, but i mean a lot of the time there was very little difference between the sort of things george osborne used to say and what keir starmer was now saying in terms of their, you know, basically saying there's nothing we can do, there's no money. and so don't look to us for anything. you know, that was almost without the positive message. >> i mean, keir starmer is standing there saying things are going to get worse before they get better. it's all misery. we're going to have to make all these nasty decisions. but without any kind of optimism at the end of it, i'm going to show you this clip of paul nowak absolutely kicking off about nigel farage. it was quite the rant, i believe, for one moment

that most of those who voted reform at the last election are racist. >> but let me say this clearly and unequivocally nigel farage isn't a friend of the working class. he's a fraud , a public class. he's a fraud, a public school educated, private equity loving, nhs , privatising putin, loving, nhs, privatising putin, apologist fraud . apologist fraud. >> right? well, it did go on. there was more, but i won't show it all. well, i think there was all that about . it all. well, i think there was all that about. is it it all. well, i think there was all that about . is it because all that about. is it because there are members of trade unions who actually are quite taken by the reform policy platform? i mean, at the heart of reforms, i mean reforms signature economic policy is to reduce taxes on the working and middle classes, how he can stand there and say that nigel farage is against the working class is completely wrong. >> it at the heart of reform is the promotion of the british working class. that's partly why reform wants to reduce immigration, because it undermines the ability of the working class to get a fair wage in this country, because cheap

imported labour has kept a lid on wages. but so he's he's fundamentally wrong about all of that. the other thing that's quite interesting though, just going back to what you were saying before we listened to his message, his unite came out today forecasting that there's going to be a £4 billion black hole in local authorities across the country next year and rising to 8 billion in the year after that. effectively, we're going to see a collapse in local government. it's going to make 1979 look like a walk in the park. if you can remember, you probably can't remember 1979, but we are heading into deep economic trouble under this government, and they're doing it at the rate of knots. >> i may as well all give up then. ben, you know, a little bit of optimism wouldn't go amiss. i'll have to bring you in because we have to go to a break very shortly. but why do you think he's saying that? is he worried? do you think that quite a lot of working class people are taken by the message of

nigel farage, or is it just a bit of farage mania? >> it'sjust bit of farage mania? >> it's just a cheap win to do that kind of thing. i mean, nigel farage is not a working class hero, but the working class hero, but the working class don't need a hero. and this sort of patronising. that's so true. it's he's for me, farage is kind of like the trump the trump phenomenon. he represents an anti—establishment view which is a substantial political issue that the working class of this country are interested in. i mean, you know, if you in the one way he was a hero was that he was one of the few politicians or people involved in political life that spoke up for the one time in recent british political history that the working class made their voice heard, which was brexit. and, you know , certainly brexit. and, you know, certainly the tuc weren't interested in working class views and interests and politics when it came to the b word. so, you know, we don't need a hero, but we do need some kind of political force that will that will listen to us and put forward our views. >> and, and by the way, the position of nora forster. >> yeah. sorry. okay. we are running late and i've got to stay on time like michelle

manages to do in just an hour, because coming up, the met has admitted they made some mistakes over pro—palestine protest policing . is this an admittance that there is two tier law and order or

welcome back. this is dewbs& co welcome back. this is dewbs& co with me emily carver. i'm with me emily carver. i'm standing in for michelle this standing in for michelle this evening and keeping me company evening and keeping me company tonight is ben habib, former tonight is ben habib, former deputy leader of reform uk and deputy leader of reform uk and ella whelan journalist and ella whelan journalist and commentator. now before the commentator. now before the break, we were talking about break, we were talking about keir starmer's decision to cut keir starmer's decision to cut winter fuel payments for 10 winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners and the million pensioners and the subsequent rebellion, or indeed subsequent rebellion, or indeed the rebellion we may see the rebellion we may see tomorrow. there will be a vote. tomorrow. there will be a vote. for a while we thought there for a while we thought there wasn't going to be a vote, but wasn't going to be a vote, but there will be a vote whether it there will be a vote whether it will make any difference. i will make any difference. i don't know, but lots of you have don't know, but lots of you have beenin don't know, but lots of you have beenin don't know, but lots of you have been in touch. i mean, dylan been in touch. i mean, dylan says, please launch an appeal says, please launch an appeal for blankets and fleeces to help for blankets and fleeces to help keep our pensioners alive this keep our pensioners alive this

winter as our government doesn't winter as our government doesn't care. lots of people writing in saying this that the government just simply doesn't care about older people. this is definitely having cut through. but whether they care about the pensioner vote, i don't know, i don't know. that's the point you made ben. tory voters. yeah. richard says anyone with money in the bankis says anyone with money in the bank is now a target for the modern politician. that's interesting too, as well,

twist interestinn too, as welt, twist said the exchange and matt twist said the force didn't get everything right, particularly in the early stages in october, where demonstrations like this took place from the prescribed hizb ut—tahrir group. >> what is the solution ? >> what is the solution? >> what is the solution? >> yeah, so that shocked many of you at the time, i remember, and much of the country really that that was just allowed to take place on the streets of london calling for jihad place on the streets of london calling forjihad and the like. calling for jihad and the like. the met do , however, strongly the met do, however, strongly reject the existence of two tier policing. but is there one, ella, what do you make of this, well, these comments from this senior scotland yard officer that yes, we got things wrong . that yes, we got things wrong. >> well, i mean, obviously they did there was a, there has been for quite some time, not just in relation to the, the pro—palestine marches, a two

tier policing, if that's what you want to call it. you know, think about comparing the way in which police handled lockdown sceptic protests during the covid years . extremely. you covid years. extremely. you know, people being body slammed to the ground and, you know, very , very severe, kind of baton very, very severe, kind of baton wielding policing going on there, in relation to the sort of therapeutic light touch handung of therapeutic light touch handling of just stop oil protesters, comparisons between for example, black lives matters protesters and other groups or even, you know, going way back to the brexit years. the difference between the way in which the large scale remain protests were handled versus the sort of couple of the brexit gatherings that i went to in parliament square, you know, people could feel the difference. so this has been a problem for quite some time. the problem for quite some time. the problem i have with the these recent announcements from the met is that rather than, you know, rather than saying, admitting that there's a level of sort of, dis i suppose maybe political discrimination going

on here that the solution is just to crack down on all fronts. so, you know, the, you know , twist is cited as saying know, twist is cited as saying that the decision to not immediately arrest demonstrators, shouting jihad was an issue. now, if you look at that, the clip that we just saw, where there is an obviously an organised bunch of people who are calling for action, that was a, you know, that was using the word jihad as a call to action with placards of knives and things like that. that's that to me, seems pretty obvious case of speech crossing over into incitement to violence and would be a police matter. but you also had people, you know, holding placards that said jihad, or for example, the two women who had you know, to me, an odious display of anti—semitism, the pictures of the paragliders and sellotaped to their lapels, overt support for hamas. yeah, but and that, i don't think, is a police matter despite it being morally, politically disgusting, it's a matter of free speech, evenif it's a matter of free speech, even if, even if you have to

balance the rights of, say, jewish people who will feel uncomfortable. >> i mean, you know, spoken to many people who have felt this way that they can't really go into central london on a saturday, surely. i mean , other saturday, surely. i mean, other countries have have dealt with this differently, and perhaps france came down too heavy. i don't know, they appeared to just ban them from happening. but if you've got to balance the rights of people, don't you? and if jewish people are feeling so uncomfortable and i won't say all jewish people, there were some jewish people on these marches, but i imagine not many. >> no, it's very evident that large sections of these marches are overtly anti—semitic. and if i was a jewish person, i would i well, you don't have to imagine what it'd be like for a jewish person. it's a lot of it's very intimidating. >> but you still have the placards. the question is, when you have a political issue of anti—semitism and moral issue of anti—semitism, whose job is it to deal with it when it's in the realm of speech? >> for me, it's not the police's job, and the problem with scotland yard's approach is

either to have been sort of hang back or even actually, as we remember , accosting jewish remember, accosting jewish people who were coming, there was one case of a man who was saying that he was the problem. i know people from the group are fight who are pro—israeli, anti—hamas fundamentally who have been manhandled rather than the pro—palestine marches. but the pro—palestine marches. but the issue is rather than just the issue is rather than just the solution to this being a blanket ban or a blanket crackdown, the police need to be present and proper where they need to be when it crosses into violence and when it's in the realm of free speech. back off. >> is that being too liberal here? i think should we have clamped down on them in a in a big way from, from the start really or on the, on the pro—palestinian anti—israeli marches? well, on, on what we've seen on these marches. yeah. >> i mean, i, i completely endorse everything ella said. actually, there is a fine line between incitement to violence and just repugnant speech . and and just repugnant speech. and police shouldn't be policing repugnant speech, but they did police it on the same day that they were allowing the palestinians to do whatever the

palestinians to do whatever the palestinian pro—palestinian marches were doing. they clamped down on what they called right wing football thugs who were singing england forever, which i find actually a perfectly encouraging, satisfactory sentiment. england forever. why? why is that somehow right wing? anyone with a saint george's flag gets targeted, and i think it's just easier for the police. >> i think they find it incredibly difficult, perhaps. and speaking to a former police officer earlier today, i find it very difficult to differentiate between what is hate speech when it refers to foreign conflicts and what is beyond the pale when it refers to things like jihad and all of that. >> but you can hit your own as hard as you like, but it's easier when it's hit. >> those who we know best because they're thugs, they're one of us, so we can just target them. i don't know, but can i just want to say one thing political decisions that are not for the police? >> absolutely. and i just want to make that point. but they have to the police, the criminal justice system, not the not just

the police is now politicised. we know it because we saw starmer directing the entire criminal justice system against those who write it. and i'm not forgiving the riots just before anyone condemns me on social media for saying so . but media for saying so. but starmer, as a prime minister of this country, got up. he castigated everyone his far right. he couldn't possibly know the political disposition of all those people who were rioting, who, in my view, were more likely to be labour voters than they were, you know , fascist they were, you know, fascist voters is the way that he was. he was categorising them and he directed the entire criminal justice system to nail them. >> and ben, i sense when he's talking about issues on the continent and that europe are facing , he's continent and that europe are facing, he's far more comfortable talking about the threat of the far right than he would ever be, about talking about the threat of islamism taking hold in europe. so i think that's just. sorry. taking hold in europe. so i think that'sjust. sorry. i'm think that's just. sorry. i'm going to have to cut you off. okay? ella spoke too long. they're coming up. nearly 2000 prisoners are set to be released early tomorrow to help with overcrowding. 1700 tomorrow, england wales. is

the best solution? is

okay. welcome back. thank you for joining me. i'm standing in forjoining me. i'm standing in forjoining me. i'm standing in for michelle dewberry emily carver now. keeping me company still is ben habib and ella wheeler. now we're going to move down under actually because the australian government is planning to ban social media accounts for teens up to the age of 14. now, they haven't actually decided exactly what age limit they want to put. but 14 is about what they're looking for, so they're saying enough is enough. too much harm is being caused to young people by using things like tiktok , snapchat, things like tiktok, snapchat, instagram, facebook and the like . instagram, facebook and the like. so we're hearing quite a lot of murmurs from our own government and from our own politicians about this sort of thing clamping down on social media, how bad it is for children, etcetera, etcetera. so should the united kingdom follow suit? ben. >> so before answering the

question, just to be sure, we're not conflating this with a general clampdown on social media because i'm just charlie rowley just children to that, to that. yeah, stick to that. for that. yeah, stick to that. for that. i am completely in favour. there is masses of evidence that social media is damaging to children , and i could see it in children, and i could see it in my own children when they were playing on their iphones in a very benign way, without any of the having to put up with the vitriol and the and the sort of hate that permeates social media, just the distraction of it, the immediacy of it, the short term nature of it all, the buzz that they get from a one minute tiktok video which prohibits them, then from being able to read a 500 page book because their mind can't take that kind of concentration. by the way, i have trouble myself with 500 page books, but people do now . do now. >> many people very reason. >> many people very reason. >> yeah, and even i'm kind of hooked on it. so i'm completely in favour of if you can protect children from alcohol, smoking, sex before a certain age, not

serving in the armed forces, not voting, and so on, i think is absolutely right that you should protect them from social media. >> and a strong case from ben. >> and a strong case from ben. >> no, i completely disagree. not because i think that social media is a great thing for a 13 year old to be getting up to, but because it's what this message sends about parental authority, which is that it's the state's job to parent your child rather than the parent's job. and the reason why that is a problem is because i think we've, you know, social media is can be damaging if your child is spending a lot of time looking at weird or age inappropriate stuff. it also, you know, i agree with ben, the sort of, drive for likes and all the rest of it is, you know, a 13 year old doesn't have the same amount of self—restraint as a 33 year old self—restraint. so that that all is negative. but policing this in terms of, you know, as a

parent is not rocket science. you just do that and take the phone away. >> not so easy, though, but on sort of that sort of crass generalisation. >> but you can just do that and you can also, as any good mum or dad does have a sense of and by the way, we do this, have , as the way, we do this, have, as most people have a sense of what is right and wrong in your own household and have conversations with your kids. boundaries, boundaries. i think there's this idea that children just grow up external from us, without any of our forces or our influence , and our forces or our influence, and that there are these sort of ticking time bombs that the state has to intervene into to correct. and that's a problem because it undermines parents confidence. we've got lazy parent authority. >> but can i just say, ben, as a matter of principle, i completely agree with you, ella. the state needs to get out of our private lives. so why do you back this? well, because i think there is masses of evidence that social media is bad for children. and, i mean, would you make it legal for children to dnnk make it legal for children to drink alcohol or to smoke , buy drink alcohol or to smoke, buy fags before a cigarettes, as you

call them nowadays , you know, call them nowadays, you know, before a certain age, would you legalise that ? because it's legalise that? because it's a parental choice. i think there are boundaries that the state can put in place where i would like to see the state going to be enforceable, though. >> is it? i mean, children, that's a i look at tiktok and i spend far too much time looking at it. it is very addictive. i think it is contributing to our attention spans getting shorter and shorter and also us getting stupider, i think. well i completely agree. and also being fed so much propaganda from god knows who it affects adversely affects adults too. children see adults addicted to their own phones. so there's a bit of hypocrisy there too. but that's okay. it's do as i say, not as i. i do for parents, i think. yeah, but mostly or it should be. but how on earth can this be enforced? >> but i think i agree enforcements are completely different issue by the way. and i nearly said in my opening comments that, you know, you can make the law and in principle the law may make sense, but don't let enforcing it they do in order in order to be a practical, sensible law, they have to be enforceable. but, you

know, the way the areas i'd like to see the state get out of parents lives is the way that, for example, mothers are incentivised to go back to the workplace as fast as possible through social care contributions for children as young as the age of nine months to get them back into the workplace, i'd like to see more tax cuts, actually, for married couples so that the parental, the ability to parent is promoted. i'd like to see less teaching of ideology at school and leave that to the parents. yeah. >> i mean, there'll be a there'll be a lot of mums scoffing out there. ben. there may be lots of us go back to work, at least even part time, and put our kids in nursery at ten months. >> but, you know, mothering is a critical component. >> and actually most, most families want more childcare provision rather than less. but i think you're missing the sort of existential point here, which is who's meant to be in control of what our kids can see. slippery slope, the state or is it mum and dad? >> yeah, i think that's a good point. michelle agrees.

disagree. she thinks it's a great idea. and about time. social media could be policed by government issuing a code to of age children, which then allows them access. ijust age children, which then allows them access. i just think children will be able to get around it, particularly at school. they've all got phones. i think if you want your child off social media, you'd have to just not allow them a phone, and even then they'd probably find a way of getting one. but i don't know. i'm not a parent yet. anyway, coming up, we'll be talking law and order as labour are to release up to 1700 inmates tomorrow, apparently to help with

>> it's biological. >> it's biological. >> welcome back. well, that discussion about social media being banned for children in australia developed into a bit of a debate about parenting, which is always a bit of a thorny topic, a bit of a thorny topic about what a mum should be doing, whether a mum should be sending her child to nursery, whether it's possible, whether dads are useless. >> ben well i was no well i was

making the, the salient point that actually, if ella rightly wants the state to get out of parental control of their children , what you should not be children, what you should not be doing is sending off your children to third party care at a very tender young age. they need to be in the family unit being looked after by their parents. >> you missed. hang on. what you missed of your of your nice speech in the break was that it wasn't that men were staying at home. no, i think women were staying. >> i think mothers do it a lot better than fathers do. fathers come in. the fathers are much better. once children have got to a certain age at a at a very tender young age, it is the mother that is the primary caregiver . mother that is the primary caregiver. and children get much more succour from their mother than they do from their father at that age. later, it changes and there's a different role for fathers. but that's how i see it. >> yeah, that's how you see it. and that's how the 1950s saw it. but i think maybe, you know, there are men at this day and age, my husband included, who have a much more progressive

view of women's freedom. and maybe you should have, but the freedom of women comes at the cost of state interference in families. >> and you were making the point that you wanted the state out of families. >> ben. there is just a pragmatic argument, isn't there, that because of the basic cost of living , you need to have two of living, you need to have two salaries? well, a lot of people need to have salaries and staying at home for god knows how long isn't always an option. and sometimes i would say women do give up perhaps too much when they have children and men. nothing seems to change for the man's life. but i don't know, i don't know. should we move on to one last topic? well, do we have time? do we have time? we have two minutes just to talk about this, this news that 1700 people are going to be released from prison tomorrow, from prisons in england and wales. now, this is very worrying. you've got a domestic abuse commissioner coming out to say this is giving some women sleepless nights. ella >> yeah, because we don't know the exact details of some of these prisoners. and it look, these prisoners. and it look, the crisis in prisons is serious. there is a literally a physical problem of there being too many people, too many bodies

in cells. something has to be done about that. and that's the labour party is being honest. that something needs to be done about it. the problem is, rather than looking, it's a bit like what we were saying at the start. it's rather than making an ideological case for saying these people shouldn't be in jail because, you know, they could be serving community services or something like that. to timpson himself when he first got appointed, said, i would you know, by a third, reduce the amount of people in prisons for these reasons, petty theft or whatever it is. but instead of that, we've got this very light on detail, sort of just release valve pull on the numbers. >> well, this is the thing, ben, very quickly, because we're running out of time, but we don't know which prisons. we don't know which prisons. we don't know which prisons. we don't know who's being released, mixed messages about whether they could be serious offenders or not. >> i mean, you know, the state of government government suggests to me that they won't ever know who they're releasing. they're just going to pull this lever, as you say, and people who've served 40% of their sentences will be released. and we're going to put dangerous people back into the public, and we'll be locking up people who've tweeted things that. keir starmer finds offensive. and this comes back to the two tier

policing criminal justice system. we were talking about before. and by the way, while i'm on the topic, there are 10,000 foreigners in our in our prisons. we have about 100,000 people in prison at the moment, 10,000. they should be deported immediately. why are they still in this country? >> it is crazy. such a large proportion of our 10% are crazy. well, we're going to end on that note, sorry if i disturbed your your dreams this evening. your sleep this evening with the with that news that's hitting us tomorrow. but thank you very much for tuning in. thank you to my panel, ben habib and ella whelan. now up next is gb news tonight. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news . news. >> hello and welcome to the latest update from the met office for gb news. some clear spells overnight and a cool night compared with recent nights, but it is turning

increasingly unsettled towards the north of the uk, with weather systems arriving from the atlantic. it's not something we've seen for a week or so and that means heavy and at times persistent rain across scotland, northern ireland, northern england and north wales through the night. cloudy skies sinking south as well. but we keep some clear spells towards the east midlands, east anglia, southeast england, 11 or 12 celsius. first thing here, but high single figures , low double figures figures, low double figures typically elsewhere and lower humidity compared with the last week or so. so a more comfortable night for sleeping, even if it is an unsettled start to tuesday with wet and windy weather sweeping through northern scotland. i think shetland and orkney could see some disruption from heavy rain and strong winds during the day, as well as blustery weather for western scotland. northern ireland heavy showers and gusty winds. an area of rain sinks south during the morning across northern england , reaching north

northern england, reaching north wales and parts of the midlands by lunchtime. ahead of that, we've got thickening cloud for southern parts, with a few showers moving into wales and the southwest, perhaps 1 or 2 developing later in the southeast. so effective it's a showery day, but with some longer spells of rain at times. for example, the end of the day across southern parts 19 celsius in the south, 11 in the far north and northeast with 50 mile per hour wind gusts and the wind coming from the arctic. now that arctic wind is going to sweep across all parts by wednesday, that means it's going to feel cold in the wind. unusually so for the time of year. frequent showers moving through as well , showers moving through as well, particularly in the north and northwest. but some sunshine in between. so it's not going to be a complete washout. fewer showers on thursday and friday. more rain in the north this weekend looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb. >> very good evening to you. i'm

martin daubney and this is gb tonight. well tonight's show the metropolitan police have admitted they didn't get everything right when it came to policing the protest, but they rejected calls that its policing has been too tiered. well, i've been on the ground during the majority of these protests. as you can see there. that's me getting handcuffed at the cenotaph a few weeks ago, and i've seen two tier policing with my own eyes in plain sight. and now, ahead of tomorrow's crucial winter fuel vote, a report has claimed that thousands will die if the winter fuel payment is scrapped. and it seems the labour party forgot they wrote that report themselves back in 2017. plus, the national crime agency, which is at the centre of the prime minister's plan, of course, to smash the gangs, is reportedly on its knees. now this comes just days after the

home secretary