>> very good evening to you. i'm martin daubney and this is gb tonight. well tonight's show the metropolitan police have admitted they didn't get everything right when it came to policing the protest, but they rejected calls that its policing has been too tiered. well, i've been on the ground during the majority of these protests. as you can see there. that's me getting handcuffed at the cenotaph a few weeks ago, and i've seen two tier policing with my own eyes in plain sight. and now, ahead of tomorrow's crucial winter fuel vote, a report has claimed that thousands will die if the winter fuel payment is scrapped. and it seems the labour party forgot they wrote that report themselves back in 2017. plus, the national crime agency, which is at the centre of the prime minister's plan, of course, to smash the gangs, is reportedly on its knees. now this comes just days after the

home secretary hailed success in the drop in small boats after 12 died in the deadliest small boat tragedy so far this year. well, to show pleasure to have your company with an action packed show ahead of all of that to come. so do get in touch with your thoughts on any of tonight's topics. of course, by going to gbnews.com/yoursay. but first, here's your news headunes first, here's your news headlines and it's sophia wenzler . wenzler. >> martin. thank you. good evening. i'm sophia wenzler with your headlines just after 7:00. the princess of wales has finished her chemotherapy treatment and said her focus is to stay cancer free. she made the announcement in a heartfelt family video showing her spending private time with prince william and her children. princess catherine revealed in march that she was undergoing

cancer treatment and has been out of the public view since then. she is now set to carry out a few engagements this year, which could include remembrance events in november and her annual christmas carol concert. now, downing street says sir keir starmer's cabinet is united behind plans to cut winter fuel payments to millions of pensioners. it comes after leaders of two of the biggest unions have put further pressure on the government to soften its policy. unite and the pcs union have both criticised the plan, while pawel nowak, head of the trades union congress, says the government should rethink the plan and reconsider other lines of support for pensioners. mps will vote tomorrow on the plans to scrap the payment. speaking at the tuc conference in brighton, paul nowak said he'll work with the government to rebuild public services. >> play our part in recasting britain's industrial future and above all, will work with the government to face down those on the right who wish to sow

division and discord in our communities and our message to the tinpot politicians, the street thugs and any rag tag group that tries to promote their message of hate is clear. not in our workplaces, not in our communities, not on our watch. >> meanwhile, the metropolitan police says it's very likely a rest will be made more quickly when it handles large protests in the future. assistant commissioner matt twist also admitted the force didn't get everything right when policing recent demonstrations, frequent protests and counter—demonstrations have been held since last october, including by environmental campaigners and from groups calling for a ceasefire in the israel—hamas conflict. protests also developed into rioting and disorder after three girls were killed in an attack in southport in july , and hollywood actor in july, and hollywood actor idris elba has joined the prime minister in downing street to launch a new effort to tackle

knife crime. elba, an anti—knife crime campaigner, joins the keir starmer this morning as he launched the coalition, which aims to stop young people from being dragged into violent gangs. the coalition will bring together campaign groups, families of people who've lost their lives to knife crime and young people who've been affected by it, as well as idris and the home secretary, yvette coopen and the home secretary, yvette cooper. sir keir starmer says he wants to make it harder to buy dangerous weapons online. idris says it's time to put ideas into action. those are the latest gb news headlines . action. those are the latest gb news headlines. for action. those are the latest gb news headlines . for now, action. those are the latest gb news headlines. for now, i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> thank you sophia. now tonight's top story. the assistant commissioner of the metropolitan police has admitted

the force made mistakes in its policing of pro—palestine protests, particularly in the early stages back in october. speaking to the think tank policy exchange, matt twist cited the decision not to immediately arrest demonstrators , immediately arrest demonstrators, shouting jihad as an example of the met's not acting decisively enough. during those protests. however, he also insisted that police tactics had since developed as strongly rejected any accusations of two tier or differential policing . well, differential policing. well, join me now in the studio is one of the authors of that report of the head of crime and justice at the head of crime and justice at the policy exchange, david spencen the policy exchange, david spencer. and of course, i'm joined by my panel. and tonight that's gb news senior commentator nigel nelson and the former conservative mp michael brown. gentlemen, welcome to the studio. let's start with you, if brown. gentlemen, welcome to the studio. let's start with you, if we could, david. so the report we could, david. so the report came out and many people came out and many people watching the show might say, watching the show might say, well, thank god the report is well, thank god the report is

proving what we kind of all proving what we kind of all suspected. all along, the suspected. all along, the evidence seemed to be manifest evidence seemed to be manifest that the police were standing that the police were standing off against the palestine off against the palestine protesters, but they were protesters, but they were putting the boot in or worse, to putting the boot in or worse, to those on the other side. tell us those on the other side. tell us about your report. thanks very about your report. thanks very much. much. >> good evening. the. i think >> good evening. the. i think one of the big findings that we one of the big findings that we have when we look at have when we look at particularly the mood of the particularly the mood of the public, what do what do the public, what do what do the british people actually think british people actually think about protests? and we look at about protests? and we look at the way the police are operating the way the police are operating and the legal regime itself, the and the legal regime itself, the law we see there's a really big law we see there's a really big gulf. there's a big gap between gulf. there's a big gap between the law and the way the police the law and the way the police are operating and the mood of are operating and the mood of the public. so, for example, we the public. so, for example, we asked people, would you come asked people, would you come into central london or another into central london or another town and city if there's a major town and city if there's a major protest going on and a huge protest going on and a huge proportion over two thirds of proportion over two thirds of people said they would defer people said they would defer their plans, they would not come their plans, they would not come into london if there was a major into london if there was a major protest going on. and protest going on. and interestingly, when we broke the interestingly, when we broke the data down, we actually looked data down, we actually looked and we saw that that was more and we saw that that window. likely to be the case for women and older people. the second thing that we particularly found

when we looked at ff ,to the

seemed to go out of the window. there was particular fear. many people believe , of putting the people believe, of putting the bootin people believe, of putting the boot in to the pro—palestine protesters. and yet we didn't see that. for example, at the cenotaph or the enough is enough protest ones that i went to. does this report in particular you spoke to matt twist, the assistant commissioner of the metropolitan police. do they admit that they can improve, or was this a kind of. yeah, we acknowledge some of the things you're saying, but we're going to carry on as normal. >> i think my first thought is i really credit the assistant commissioner, matt twist, because he says, and he said he was quite open to me that they'd not got everything right. and i think to have a public servant, a very senior public servant who's willing to go on the record and say, actually, we didn't get everything right, that's no bad thing. and to be honest, we could probably do with more of that sort of thing, and we might not have some of the difficulties we have. so i actually think all credit to matt twist for being willing to, to be open about that. i think the real issue, when we look at

the real issue, when we look at the sort of two tier discussion or we call it differential policing in the report, the real issue is it's very difficult to get to grips with what's actually going on, because so much of this is behind closed doors by the police. so, for example, we have no idea often who the community leaders they're consulting with. we have noidea they're consulting with. we have no idea what the advice is that they're receiving, no idea about what these meetings are like. and what what action the police are taking as a result of the advice they're receiving. so the real problem is the lack of transparency here. and the first step that needs to happen is the police need to be far more open, far more transparent about the advice they're receiving from different groups. >> and david spencer , some of >> and david spencer, some of the data you mentioned, there is pretty eye opening. i mean, there's a direct admission by there's a direct admission by the general public here. they give these protests a wide berth, not only through sense of perhaps their own, their own fears. and i wonder what the jewish community would have said if you'd have told them, but also evidence of clear economic damage to our cities and our towns. when these protests are going on, people are simply

staying away. >> undoubtedly. and although it's not in the report, certainly in some of the research conversations we had with businesses, with retailers, hoteliers, these sorts of organisations, they say they've been really heavily affected by major protests and they're very, very concerned about the economic impact, both on their businesses, but more broadly as well. it's a really serious problem. and one certainly that the mayor of london should be getting to grips with as well. yeah, he's been he's been notably silent on a lot of this now , david, before i bring in my now, david, before i bring in my panel now, david, before i bring in my panel, can i just show a few clips of protests that i got involved directly in myself? >> here's one here. this was last. this was some time ago. this was. do you remember that projector? that's the projector, right there projecting onto big ben.and right there projecting onto big ben. and it put the image onto big ben of from the river to the sea. you can see that there. i'm stood right by this projector. those images were beamed around the world on this protest. i was going right up to coppers and saying, that's an offence to project onto that building is an offence. that's an insulting image. many believe , to be

image. many believe, to be clear, anti—semitism. will you go and do something about it? they had no interest whatsoever. not a sausage. i also got egged at that protest because men were in full ski masks, and these were the palestine protesters. and i was saying to them, to the coppers, go and nick those blokes. and in return for that i got egged. and guess what? nobody got arrested. let's go on to the next clip. this was at the cenotaph just a couple of weeks ago. a few weeks ago. this was enough is enough protest. i got handcuffed by protesters here. i was simply doing the same job as before. i was filming the unrest there. section 14 order. i got handcuffs on my wrist. mercifully, i was the recipient of two—tiered policing because one of the coppers recognised me and they said no, that's he's from gb news and they let me go. but about 115 people didn't get let go that night. they got nicked under a dispersal order. and i was just i just maintain david spencer that this kind of thing is direct evidence. and i've been at these ones, at the protests at the cenotaph in

november, where a man was bashed on, several men were back on and there was blood all over the place. the images are actually too distressing to show on tv at this time of night. so the evidence of those who actually go there and go on the ground points the clear two tier policing. and yet in this report , policing. and yet in this report, noble, laudable report, they still reject claims of two tier policing. >> and this is the problem, as i say, about transparency, is that we simply have no idea or no clear idea how the police are making these judgements, how they're making the decisions , they're making the decisions, what the advice they're getting from lawyers, from community groups, from the crown prosecution service. and without getting the insight into what they're actually thinking , i they're actually thinking, i don't mean that in a pejorative way, but what they're actually thinking, how they're making their decisions. we simply can't . their decisions. we simply can't. it's very difficult to diagnose just what the problem is and how we solve it. so we need that transparency from the police. great. >> let's bring my panel in now. nigel nelson and michael brown. nigel nelson and michael brown. nigel perhaps i could start with you. i suspect you will echo

matt twist, the assistant assistant commissioner of the met's. sentiments when he says there is no such thing as two tier policing. yet the evidence and this report seems to intimate. that's not the case. >> well, i mean, what matt twist told david, which actually really struck me, was that no, there isn't a two tier policing. there are infinite tiers of policing and what it depends on is what it depends on is the threat, the threat that the that the protestors pose, the harm that they might cause and the risk to the public. and so what the police do is change their ways of policing depending on what the circumstances are now. okay. i think it was great that he admitted there were mistakes made, that they should have arrested people for shouting jihad, earlier than they did. they had a bit of a problem. i think, about the legal definition of whether they could do it, but the important thing is that the police are operationally independent, and what they were doing there is saying, right, we must actually

police proportionately and we must put public safety first. >> michael brown, do you buy that this intimation that the police is policing without fear or favour, or does the evidence suggests to you that there's clear fear of one community and favour towards that same community? >> well, i'm afraid i disagree entirely with nigel. i live just south, a few hundred yards south of vauxhall bridge road, and when these protests were really going full pelt in october, november up to christmas, if you lived in my street , lupus lived in my street, lupus street, which which joins vauxhall bridge road , no vauxhall bridge road, no civilian sensible person would be able to go shopping in the sainsbury's in vauxhall bridge road, which is where i do my shopping, usually on a saturday afternoon. can't do that when any of those protests are going on. so it's two tier policing to this extent. the ordinary citizen going about their business, who lives in my area of pimlico, who wants to go shopping or wants to go to

victoria station. nobody in their right mind if they're my age would go anywhere near the protesters . there's no police protesters. there's no police doing. it's two tier policing to this extent. while the police are tied up dealing with or rather not dealing with these protesters . we don't have any protesters. we don't have any policing whatsoever . when the policing whatsoever. when the spill—over takes place on their way to the american embassy. that's why they're going along vauxhall bridge road. as far as the police are concerned, it's all done and dusted when it's finished at parliament, but it's not done and dusted when you when you're in my street. about half an hour later. >> david spencer, can i bring you in for a quick final comment? we're of course, approaching the anniversary , approaching the anniversary, october the 7th of that terrorist invasion that prorogue by hamas into israel. and these protests aren't going anywhere soon. a particularly sensitive moment, that first anniversary, there's likely to be a big protest around that date. do you get any inclination or sense that the met are prepared for this, or preparing for this could be a huge flashpoint. >> i'm very sure they will be

preparing for it. i've got no doubt that it's in their minds and certainly based upon the conversation that i had with assistant commissioner twist from the met, that we've already talked about, how they police these protests and the decisions they make is undoubtedly uppermost in their mind. they'll be very concerned about how october 7th goes and the policing of it. no doubt at all. >> do you think that the police operate under a sense of i mean, i've been to the protests and they get tooled up, they put the batons in, they kettle people, you might call them right wingers, the police might call them far right, but they don't. police like that on the pro—palestine protests. and that precipitates far fewer arrests. can we expect to see the police on occasions like that? do you think actually getting tooled up and going into that crowd with the same vim? >> i mean, there have been incidents where we have seen that, but it is as as nigel said, it , the police are dealing said, it, the police are dealing with different situations and are dealing with, in fairness, what is a very challenging

situation. certainly the legal regime, as we cover in the report doesn't help them at all in this and this is something the new government really needs to take seriously and look at. otherwise they will find themselves in the same mire that their predecessors found themselves in. it's really difficult for the police. i think they'll be really concerned about october the 7th. >> superb report. thanks for sharing with us david spencer and thanks to my panel, of course, michael brown and nigel nelson. thank you very much indeed. now coming up next. kensington palace has issued an update, of course, on the princess of wales's cancer treatment, an incredibly emotional video it is too. plus, the agency at the centre the prime minister's the gangs plan is in serious danger.

welcome back to gbn tonight with me. martin daubney now. earlier today, kensington palace released a touching and quite beautiful video of the princess of wales and her family

announcing that she has completed her chemotherapy treatment. the video shows the prince and princess of wales and their beautiful children spending time as a family, with the princess looking very well indeed. let's take a look . indeed. let's take a look. >> you lead the way. as the summer comes to an end. i cannot tell you what a relief it is to have finally completed my chemotherapy treatment . doing chemotherapy treatment. doing what i can to stay cancer free is now my focus. although i have finished chemotherapy, my path to healing and full recovery is long and i must continue to take each day as it comes . each day as it comes. >> well, joining me now to discuss this is the royal commentator, caroline aston. caroline, welcome to the show. i think it's an astonishing video. it's beautiful. it has so many vignettes that people can relate to of the princess and the prince with their children playing cards, having a picnic. the sunshine on her face, the moments of life we all treasure.

and i think we would all agree. the royal family have never seen anything like this from them. it's an incredible video. what are your thoughts? >> absolutely. so, you know, watching that, i was thinking back to earlier royal glimpses of life . you think about the of life. you think about the wartime morale boosting films made of george vi and our future queen, princess elizabeth and her sister princess margaret rose to polish little princesses , rose to polish little princesses, but pretty formal, pretty staid by today's standards. and then, of course, the queen herself, our late queen as a young mother. beautifully photographed pictures. but this this is more like, isn't it, the most gloriously filmed and produced family holiday film? and it's glossy, it's beautifully done, but it's the words, isn't it? accompanying these marvellous images, the optics are superb, but the words my goodness me, here we have someone telling us about the long, hard struggle for the family over the last

seven months of chemotherapy and but how life at times like this gets stripped back to loving and being loved. the innate vulnerability that really, i suppose the message is whether you be king or commoner, duke or dustman, this disease, the six letter word that strikes, chills into everyone's heart. cancer is a great leveller and i love the princess's words at the end that although she's come to the end of her treatment and hopes to kind of pick up the reins of her job that she's done so well since 2011, when she married into the royal family, that she's in sympathy with all those people. and there will be people watching this who may have been given that diagnosis today or be undergoing chemotherapy, who will very much appreciate what she says about walking hand in hand , side by side. and of hand, side by side. and of course, most memorably, that out of great darkness can come

light, a bright light shining so memorable words, superb images with, of course , prince louis with, of course, prince louis stealing the scene rather by pushing his face into the camera. we'd expect nothing else from him. and going forward, i'm sure we're hoping perhaps to see her at the remembrance day commemoration in november and maybe just maybe, at that stunning carols at christmas event together at christmas. it would be great to see her there . would be great to see her there. but and it's a big but she's well aware to stay cancer free or to keep away from a recurrence or whatever is going on. i don't think the word kensington palace is used. the words cancer free. she's well aware this is an ongoing journey that she invites us to join her on, i suppose, and does it in a very uplifting way, i loved it, great piece of work and so, so different. this is the way forward for the royals. you can't have too much formality. you have to relate to the people out there to be seen, to be

believed, to speak and to be as open as you can. it can do a great deal of good. >> one of lippert, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. caroline aston, thank you. now a swift topic change a damning new report has unveiled unwelcome news for the prime minister, as the agency at the heart of his plans to smash the gangs and tackle the small boats crisis is on its knees. the national crime agency is reported to be suffering from a brain drain, with dwindling staff numbers, high turnover and subparit staff numbers, high turnover and subpar it systems, leading to a lack of resources and low morale amongst underpaid staff. the nca is planned to work closely alongside starmer's new border security command to stop the boats , but today's findings boats, but today's findings reveal that without proper and swift reform and fast action, there could be potentially catastrophic repercussions for the nation . how on earth has the nation. how on earth has this been allowed to happen, and what does it mean for the country's safety? well, i'm joined, of course, by my panel now in the studio, and that's gb

news senior political commentator nigel nelson and the former conservative mp michael brown . gents, welcome back, brown. gents, welcome back, michael, i'll start with you if i can. michael, i'll start with you if ican.so michael, i'll start with you if i can. so the national crime agency on friday was the lynchpin the a team, the master plan to smash the gangs. today we learn it simply seems unfit for purpose. >> and it's not going to achieve the desired effect as a consequence of the fact that it's got no staff, the staff turnover is utterly horrendous. they don't get paid nearly enough. they're supposedly akin to civil servants, but they're not even on civil service rates. the morale is a disaster and the government are not going to get anywhere if they're relying on this organisation in the current state. it is frankly , i think state. it is frankly, i think it's window dressing. anyway, the french have come to the conclusion that there is only one reason that everybody doesn't want to stay in france and wants to come to britain, and wants to come to britain, andifs and wants to come to britain, and it's because we have this black economy which enables so many of these migrants who won't be sent back anywhere. most of

them, even though the government says, oh, we're going to establish a returns policy there, you might as well have a sign on the white cliffs of dover saying everybody welcome. because the organisation that this ngo is having to deal with the circumstances it has to deal with will not be able to achieve anything. and frankly, until we introduce i used to be against them until we introduce national identity cards such as they have in france, we are going to have a pull factor that will never end. >> nigel nelson, you have to admit it is an embarrassment for the government. on friday, this was the a team today seems like the z—list to be to be to be absolutely frank, 25% of senior staff are leaving annually. 9% of posts are unfulfilled, seriously hampered in its ability. it's not just to tackle people trafficking, but also child abuse, and also hostile states from overseas. we can't attract the best talent. nobody

seems to want to work there. no. >> and what it is, is it's a lesson of what happens if you neglect public sector pay. i mean, what has happened here is in the last ten years, the nca , in the last ten years, the nca, the real terms loss in pay has been 16.3%. that's a lot of money. people will go elsewhere. so only by giving them the right amount of pay, you're actually going to be able to recruit and retain . also what it comes down retain. also what it comes down to, to stopping the boats that this is the nca are one of the agencies involved. bear in mind that that m15 agencies involved. bear in mind that that mi5 are now being added to it. it'll also include border force and there will be 100 dedicated nca, nca officers actually doing the job of trying to trying to break the gangs. >> they can't recruit anybody. >> they can't recruit anybody. >> well, i mean, this is this is the question that labour have got to sort out because they've got to sort out because they've got to sort out because they've got to recruit those 100 people to be able to do that job. that's what they promised in the manifesto and that's what they've got to achieve. >> but it's saying here they're short of key staff in mission critical areas, don't you think

that if the nca was a central plank of smashing the gangs , plank of smashing the gangs, they might have thought this through and got this shipshape before now? >> well , i before now? >> well, i don't before now? >> well , i don't know if the if >> well, i don't know if the if labour knew before they won the election that the nca was in this mess. the important thing is to i mean, this government has criticised a lot about pubuc has criticised a lot about public sector pay, but in this particular case, one of the ways of getting this back on track again is to give them, is to give them a pay rise. >> so it's the tories fault. >> so it's the tories fault. >> well, obviously it is. i mean labour have only been there two months. so this is 14 years of built up . so, while i appreciate built up. so, while i appreciate blaming the tories for everything has got to stop somewhere in this particular bit. it doesn't stop here. >> okay. thanks very much, michael and nigel. and we have a spokesperson. we have a statement from the home office and the statement reads this, this government is committed to investing in the national crime agency and its people to ensure that it has the capacity and the capability to tackle growing threats. last month, we announced 100 extra national

crime agency officers on top of the 50% uplift in nca officers stationed in europol and a spokesman for the nca said this. we are committed to working with government to ensure that the agency has the right structure and is able to attract, retain and is able to attract, retain and support a talented workforce. it is imperative that we deliver for value money while achieving our mission of protecting the public from serious and organised crime. now and as the threat evolves , well, and as the threat evolves, well, coming up next word experts have warned that criminals may be left homeless as nearly 2000 prisoners are set be freed the government's early prisoner release

welcome back to elianne tonight with me, martin daubney. now our next story, the controversial scheme to release some prisoners from jail early has hit yet another roadblock as a senior

source from the ministry of justice warns that the initiative may be undermined by an increase in recalls as the level of reoffending risks going up. as a result, to just remind you, nearly 2000 prisoners are recalled each month for breaching licence conditions and the plans to set criminals free even earlier has set off alarm bells for many within the system . bells for many within the system. are we headed for a major prison and reoffending crisis? well, i'm joined now by the professor of criminology at staffordshire university, james treadwell. james, welcome to the show. 2000 cons being released early. what could possibly go wrong? well, the probation service seem woefully underprepared. claims today they were only given a day's notice instead of three months notice. they're already warning us. they've got 70 cases each per officer . they feel each per officer. they feel unable to cope . domestic unable to cope. domestic violence charities. meanwhile, in friendly media such as the guardian saying domestic violence victims survivors may

be having sleepless nights tonight. james treble what could possibly go wrong? >> an awful lot could go wrong, martin. and you know, sts 40, which is going to play out both tomorrow and then in october, which is the government's policy of releasing prisoners 10% of their sentence early has a lot of risks attached to it. and i don't think we've necessarily been honest about the risks as as yet, prisoners tend to reoffend now. okay. our reoffending statistics may say that that's quite low, but we also need to be alert to the fact that reoffending statistics , fact that reoffending statistics, at a time where there's court backlogs, where the justice system is in disarray and so on, tell only a partial picture and what does also tell a picture is, is who we're releasing. i think there's been an almost kind of narrative that's come out about this that we're releasing sort of norman stanley fletcher and lennie godber type lags. whereas in reality, 50% of those in prison custody have at least 15 previous offences. very

often , even if their current often, even if their current offence isn't violence, there is violence in that past. they're being released to an overstretched probation service that we've seen highlighted and for concern time and time again , for concern time and time again, partly because of low staff numbers, partly as well because probation officers are making the wrong assessments around the risk individuals present. so if we look at some of the kind of notorious murder cases we've seen recently, the killing of law graduate zara aleena in 2020 22 by, by jordan mcsweeney, for example, probation failures highlighted there. he had 28 previous offences for 69 crimes, many of them violent. he'd been assessed as medium risk, hadn't been recalled. those sorts of crimes show you what can go wrong when things go wrong in the management of offenders. >> and james treadwell to recall your porridge metaphor from earlier. this will be thin gruel to those who live in working

class communities. that's where these lags will be dumped. they won't be going into the policymakers neighbourhoods. they won't be living near the liberal elites. they'll be dumped on working class communities to start re—offending, and that no inmates in my backyard attitude. it will directly hammer the working class communities the hardest. >> yeah, the places that people who are released from prison tend to go to, you know, partly because of how we release them and where they come from in the first place tends to be back to urban city centres. so so a number of them will be heading to towns and cities like birmingham, liverpool, manchester, stoke on trent, london, you know, and of course there hasn't been an awful lot of time to look at the housing arrangements with them. so even if we're not releasing people, no fixed abode, even if they're going back, having given an address that might not necessarily be particularly stable, it might be that things break down very , very quickly, break down very, very quickly, fuelling homelessness, crisis and so on. and the areas that offenders do tend to return to do tend to be crime high areas.

so if they do go back and begin to reoffend, that isn't evenly distributed while they can present a risk to anybody and everybody and disproportionately, we do know that most crime blights the lives of the poorest in the working class the most, and that is well worth remembering. and it's in exactly those sorts of places and in those urban centres that you also tend to find the probation offices that have the capacity to supervise people as well. so they'll be they'll be being directed in many ways to those types of towns, cities and places. >> okay. superb thanks very much for joining us. that's james forjoining us. that's james treadwell, the professor of criminology at staffordshire university. thank you very much. now back to my panel. now, of course, gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson and the former conservative mp michael brown. why don't we start with you, nigel? politically, this is happening on the same day as our next topic of conversation. the winter fuel allowance. almost certainly being voted out of existence this could be a

political headache for keir starmer. just like the fuel allowance, if people start re—offending, if, if, if people start meeting the person who caused them trauma, this could be a disaster for the labour party. >> well, yeah. i mean it's not something they wanted to do. they're forced into it by the tories again. well actually by just no prison places. we haven't been building prisons that they're the prisons are overcrowded. the result is there are no places. and now you've actually got to release people. so that's the first thing. this wasn't actually a decision that a government wanted to take, but any government would want to take. but they did. the second point is that it's important when they come out , important when they come out, important for every prisoner. when they come out, they need a roof over their head, because if they end up homeless, what they will do is re—offend just to get back into jail and get a roof back over their head. and you need some kind of employment for them. now, we've got a prisons minister, james timpson. not heard much of him yet, but when heard much of him yet, but when he was running, running his shoe

repair shops, he employed hundreds of ex—offenders. now if you can give people a job, they're much less likely to re—offend. >> isn't the point, though, michael, is that, you know, give ex—cons a job, give ex—cons a home. if only we could do that . home. if only we could do that. unemployment's through the roof today. there's practically no housing left for people. seems to be mostly given to asylum seekers. these days. is this just another accident waiting to happen? oh there's definitely going to be an accident. >> there's definitely going to be reoffending, and somebody's going to get metaphorically, if not actually, somebody's going to get hurt, now, on this, i agree with nigel. this is not of the government's making. if there had been a tory government re—elected two months ago, they would have been doing exactly the same. and we are going to find that the homelessness issue is going to be the problem. i was reading an article by somebody who was discharged from prison some while ago. he did

manage to turn his life around. the reason he was able to turn his life around on day one is because the probation officers were able to provide accommodation for him, he said . accommodation for him, he said. most of his friends reoffend from day one because they are literally dumped on the street the next day, but i'm afraid that's going to happen now. i'm not going to blame directly the government for this because it's been a cauldron, an accident that's been waiting to happen. but accidents are definitely going to happen. as james implied in his interview with you just now. >> and nigel, quickly, the probation service has been speaking out, saying it's already woefully overworked. 70 cases per officer and once again , cases per officer and once again, they're going to be expected to manage these people. they've been given very short notice. again, it's a political action. but the consequences on the ground level just don't seem to have been thought through. >> well, i mean, we haven't got enough probation officers. and what we need is, is to hire more of them because you've got more prisoners anyway, if the prisons

minister gets his own way, what he said is that a third of people in prison shouldn't be there if he can. if in his new job, he can clear out prisons of 1 in 3 prisoners. a you'll solve the overcrowding crisis and one would hope you might solve the reoffending crisis too. >> maybe it won't solve the crowding crisis in the houses anyway, nigel. michael, thank you very much. superb. let's move on now. coming up next, thousands will die if the winter fuel payment is scrapped, which looks likely. according to a report

welcome back to gb news tonight with me martin daubney. now thousands will die if the winter fuel payment is scrapped. and this is according to an old labour report published in 2017. but are they right ? at the time, but are they right? at the time, labour cited that there was a decrease in excess winter deaths after the winter fuel payment was implemented, and this comes

as the commons is set to vote on whether to cut the allowance tomorrow, with the prime minister said to be facing a rebellion of up to 50 mps. well, joining me now to discuss this is the former pensions minister, baroness altmann, a crossbench peer who tabled a fatal parliamentary motion to kill off the government's controversial plan to limit winter fuel payments. thanks for joining plan to limit winter fuel payments. thanks forjoining us on the show, baroness altmann, an absolute pleasure to have your company. so tell me about this intriguing notion of a fatal motion to kill this bill. >> well, if the house of lords were to pass this fatal motion, it would mean that the legislation would be annulled so that the government could not then go ahead and take away the winter fuel payments from the vast majority of pensioners. this year. the house of lords can't amend this. the way the government has laid the legislation. it's not a normal bill, so we only have a choice

of either saying, yes, it's fine. off it goes or no, it's not fine, and then it would in theory, not happen. this is a very unusual parliamentary procedure . it hardly ever procedure. it hardly ever happens , and it certainly hardly happens, and it certainly hardly ever gets carried. but there are some precedents, and it tends to be on these issues of social justice and helping the poor that are the ones in which the house of lords really does make a stand and try to help mps realise if they have made a mistake that could seriously damage a particular group of people in the economy. for example, who can't defend themselves. >> and baroness altmann, it seems astonishing to most people looking at this that the labour party themselves cited data in 2017 warning that cutting the winter fuel allowance would lead to 4000 excess deaths . then it's

to 4000 excess deaths. then it's colder now , expensive, more colder now, expensive, more expensive for energy, and there are more pensioners. presumably that means if this is voted through, there'll be 4000 or more deaths this time around. first of all, is that a price you think the labour party is willing to pay? and secondly, is that the kind of emotive language you'll be using in your proposed fatal motion? >> well , proposed fatal motion? >> well, given this analysis that has surfaced today, which i bet labour wish they hadn't published in 2017, it makes a mockery of the government's wording in the legislation, which says that it hasn't done a proper assessment of the risks of introducing this policy because it doesn't believe that it will have any significant impact on anybody. now, 4000 deaths cannot be considered to be having no significant impact on anybody at all. this doesn't stack up. none of the reasons that the government has given

for ploughing ahead in the face of huge opposition from all over the place , including its own the place, including its own party, including the unions, you know, lots of charities who are saying this is terrible. it's going to be so risky. the reasons that they're giving just don't stack up. first of to all, say that nobody will be harmed is ludicrous. say that nobody will be harmed is ludicrous . secondly, to say is ludicrous. secondly, to say that they're protecting the poorest, which would be a noble aim. but it's just not true. the poorest are those who the government already knows are eligible for pension credit, but not yet getting it. and that's over 800,000 households. in addition to which there are those who have very little income, maybe from a private pension above the means tested threshold, they are poorer than people on pension credit, but they're still going to lose the winter fuel payment. so this is the wrong policy at the wrong

time. if it was next year and there was time for measures to mitigate the damage , that's mitigate the damage, that's okay. that's more responsible government taking it away just from the well—off pensioners. i have no problem with that. at all. like child benefit, maybe limit anyone who's on higher or top rate tax from getting any money. that's fine, but there's no time to arrange any of these kinds of alternatives in the short order that the government is taking the money away, which is taking the money away, which is actually just in a few weeks time when pensioners who desperately need that money are simply not going to get it. and one fears they will have to choose whether or not to keep the heating on. and that is something that otherwise their health will be at risk from. if it doesn't happen enough. >> okay. thanks forjoining us. baroness altmann, crossbench peen baroness altmann, crossbench peer, who's tabling that fatal parliamentary motion to kick off the government's controversial limits to winter fuel payments.

thank you very much. and i'm joined in my studio still by the gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson and the former conservative mp, michael brown. i'm also joined by jacob rees—mogg. of course, state of the nation is next. i'd like to get all of your takes on this. if i could, nigel, starting with you. what does it say about a government by their own reckoning, 4000 people could have died if the tories have brought this in. now they're bringing it . yeah, they're bringing it. yeah, they're bringing it. yeah, they're bringing it. yeah, they're bringing it. surely that says they don't care about 4000 people dying. >> well, i'm not sure. i'm not sure that's true. but the. well, the government says they don't recognise the figure, but that it wasn't a government figure. it wasn't a government figure at the time. it was a labour party. it was obviously a labour party figure, but when it comes down to what ross has just been saying, i think she's right. i think this should be paused, what i'd like to see is that is pensions increase by 200 to £300. that would preserve the winter fuel allowance or the value of it for poorer pensioners. and then richer pensioners. and then richer pensioners would give an awful

lot of that back in tax. so rachel reeves still saves money. >> michael brown, what's your take on this? >> well, the labour party have got themselves in a right old mess. the fact is there are labour members of parliament after the election representing coastal constituencies like worthing, hastings , bournemouth , worthing, hastings, bournemouth, cleethorpes, seaside resorts , cleethorpes, seaside resorts, cleethorpes. i used to represent in parliament pensioners everywhere and those labour members of parliament. many of them sit on very tiny majorities . them sit on very tiny majorities. if i were them, i would take the view. don't worry about the whip being taken away from me. i'm only going to be here five years if i'm lucky. i have a choice. do i do i act as the member of parliament for bournemouth east, or do i act as a labour stooge and lose my seat at the next election? they are. i have no problems with the winter fuel allowance being means tested, where people like nigel and i are concerned. we have an interest to declare we're pensioners, we don't need it. but there are going to be people

down on 13 or 14,000 a year just over the threshold. they won't get by the way. they're not going to get the pension credit because it's impossible to apply for. i think 38,000 people have appued for. i think 38,000 people have applied during the course of the last couple of months since this announcement was made. so the government are quite happy for them not to get it. it's going to be a political disaster. okay. >> okay, michael, thank you very much. jacob, before we talk about what's on your show, the labour party will undoubtedly win this vote tomorrow. their majority dictates thus. but will they lose the heart of the nafion they lose the heart of the nation in doing so? >> well, they've lost half the nafion >> well, they've lost half the nation by penalising pensioners and giving money to train drivers. so if you're a friend of keir starmer, you get sack loads of gold. and if you're a pensioner likely to vote conservative, you lose your widow's mite. i mean, i think this is pretty shameful. i would just say one thing, though, that might surprise you. i don't think the fatal motion should be passed in the house of lords. i don't think it's constitutionally proper for the house of lords to challenge a newly elected government on a financial matter. in this way, i'd go as far as saying i think

it's unconstitutional. >> okay, suburbs have now quickly. i know you've got an excellent report on your show tonight, state of the nation coming next. >> well, really importantly, i've got trevor wilson on who did the review of the bbc, which showed 1953 occasions when the bbc broke its own guidelines in the reporting of gaza and israel. the bbc is squealing like a stuck pig and saying, oh, the report hasn't been done properly and it's not fair. it was done by ai. as if ai isn't really quite clever, but this is a really important report and shows the underlying bias of the bbc that's going on. >> the state of the nation with jacob rees—mogg next. thank you very much, michael brown, nigel nelson, my panel. thanks for joining me tonight. i'll be back tomorrow 3 to 6 pm. on my show. jacob's up next, but first though, here's your weather with aidan mcgivern. have a great evening. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello and welcome to the

latest update from the met office for gb news. some clear spells overnight and a cool night compared with recent nights, but it is turning increasingly unsettled towards the north of the uk, with weather systems arriving from the atlantic. it's not something we've seen for a week or so and that means heavy and at times persistent rain across scotland, northern ireland, northern england and north wales through the night. cloudy skies sinking south as well. but we keep some clear spells towards the east midlands, east anglia , southeast midlands, east anglia, southeast england, 11 or 12 celsius first thing here, but high single figures, low double figures, typically elsewhere and lower humidity compared with the last week or so. so a more comfortable night for sleeping, even if it is an unsettled start to tuesday with wet and windy weather sweeping through northern scotland. i think shetland and orkney could see some disruption from heavy rain and strong winds during the day , and strong winds during the day, as well as blustery weather for

western scotland, northern ireland heavy showers and gusty winds. an area of rain sinks south during the morning across northern england, reaching north wales and parts of the midlands by lunchtime. ahead of that, we've got thickening cloud for southern parts, with a few showers moving into wales and the southwest. perhaps 1 or 2 developing later in the southeast . so effectively it's a southeast. so effectively it's a showery day, but with some longer spells of rain at times. for example, the end of the day across southern parts, 19 celsius in the south, 11 in the far north and northeast with 50 mile per hour wind gusts and the wind coming from the arctic. now that arctic wind is going to sweep across all parts by wednesday, that means it's going to feel cold in the wind. unusually so for the time of yeah unusually so for the time of year. frequent showers moving through as well, particularly in the north and northwest. but some sunshine in between. so it's not going to be a complete washout . fewer showers on washout. fewer showers on thursday and friday, more rain in the north this weekend. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb

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>> well . >> well. >> well. >> hello. good evening. it's me , >> hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation. tonight the nation braces itself for a cold and poor winter as the labour party is set to hold a vote on the scrapping of the winter fuel allowance. but we will be reviewing labour's own analysis that said such a move could kill 4000 people. the princess of wales has announced she has completed her course of chemotherapy and intends to focus on staying cancer free, with the return of light engagements expected towards the end of the year in a state of the nation. first, i will be talking about association football as the england manager lee carsley turns out to be a republican after refusing to sing the national anthem. plus, the author of a damning new report into the bbc's coverage of the israel—hamas war joins me

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