>> good afternoon britain. it's 12:00 on tuesday the 10th of september. i'm tom harwood and i'm emily carver crunch vote. the government insists it has no choice but to cut winter fuel payments for pensioners , despite payments for pensioners, despite huge spending pledges elsewhere. keir starmer prepares to face down an enormous coalition of opposition in parliament and beyond this afternoon, and convicts released party atmosphere outside prisons as newly released criminals praise labour's get out of jail early policy. >> we're going to be live outside hmp wandsworth and hmp hull . hull. >> prince william is out and about this afternoon following the news his wife, princess catherine, has ended her chemotherapy treatment. we'll

have the very latest pictures from wales and the us secretary of state, antony blinken. >> he's in london this afternoon following the government's decision to suspend some arms sales to israel. the americans are reportedly furious. could the special relationship be on the special relationship be on the rocks .7 the rocks.7 >> it's going to be a really interesting programme , interesting programme, completely jam packed. i mean, we've had a real problem this morning, i can tell you, with trying to just decide what fits in the show. >> yeah, absolutely. so much going on, particularly in this first hour. we've got antony blinken in central london. we've got winter fuel debate. people are mobilising outside parliament to protest this move. pensioners silver voices . you've pensioners silver voices. you've got a coalition of politicians from all sections. >> almost every minute a new prisoner gets released from our prisons as well. we're going to

be live, as we say, outside two high security prisons in the uk. it is just such a busy news day, but we're interested in what you think about all that's going on. the prisoner releases the winter fuel cuts and indeed the american visit. how testy might that press conference be.7 questions that press conference be? questions for the foreign secretary and us secretary of state. >> tricky day for keir starmer. and of course, he's been at the tuc tuc congress as well. so gbnews.com/yoursay is the way to get in touch. but let's get the headunes get in touch. but let's get the headlines with sam francis . headlines with sam francis. >> very good afternoon to you. it's just after 12:00. and the top story this lunchtime, as we heard there from emily, sir keir starmer has been warning that economic challenges will he says shape future pay deals and that tough decisions lie ahead as he took to the stage at the trades union congress earlier as the first prime minister to address the tuc since gordon brown, he thanked those who ended the burden of what he called tory rule in the this year's general

election. but he warned that rebuilding britain will be a difficult and long term task, pointing to a £22 billion black hole left by the conservatives around 1700 prisoners in england and in wales are being released early today as the government attempts to tackle overcrowding in jails. the prisons watchdog is warning that some released prisoners may reoffend or end up homeless because of inadequate preparation. but despite concerns from victims and from charities, downing street is defending that move, saying it's vital to prevent unchecked criminality caused by lack of prison spaces. our reporter, anna riley, has been speaking to one inmate who's been released from hmp hull this morning. >> horrible. but the staff are pretty good because, and i don't like it in there, but the staff have looked after me and i have

bad mental health problems , so bad mental health problems, so they didn't put me in a double cell. the rats were massive. they? yeah. they need the hygiene in. there needs to be better . better. >> mps are set to vote later on. a controversial government plan to remove winter fuel payments for most pensioners. it's being defended, though , by labour as defended, though, by labour as a tough decision to address a £22 billion deficit and will see around 10 million people lose up to £300 in support. the chancellor, rachel reeves, argues the move is necessary to fix public finances after what she calls reckless conservative spending. the shadow work and pensions secretary, mel stride, told us this morning he thinks labour are picking the pockets of pensioners. >> this is a choice. they took a choice when they first came in to give in to their trade union paymasters. when it came to wage settlements , so 22% for the settlements, so 22% for the junior doctors, 14% for the train drivers and so on. and it is entirely wrong that they

should be doing those kind of things on the backs of some of the most vulnerable pensioners up and down the country . up and down the country. >> the public inquiry into the crimes of convicted child serial killer nurse lucy letby has begun today at liverpool town hall. the investigation is scrutinising how letby, now serving 15 life sentences, was able to murder to and harm babies at the countess of chester hospital despite repeated warnings to hospital bosses. this week , opening bosses. this week, opening statements will be heard there, with evidence expected to continue until at least december . continue until at least december. pensioners could see a boost of £460 to their state pension next april, with the full rate set to rise to more than £11,900. a yeah rise to more than £11,900. a year. the increase comes under the triple lock guarantee, with wage growth of 4% driving that change, according to the ons. well, while welcome news for many, experts are still warning the rise could fall short for those losing winter fuel payments . and it edges the state payments. and it edges the state pension closer to the personal

tax allowance. meanwhile, this morning, wage growth has slowed and unemployment's dropped slightly to 4.1%. but job vacancies continue to fall . the vacancies continue to fall. the foreign secretary is meeting america's top diplomat, antony blinken, in london, for strategic talks aimed at boosting the special relationship between the two nations. those discussions are expected to focus on deepening economic and security ties, ongoing support for ukraine and promoting peace in the middle east well ahead of the talks. david lammy reiterated the uk's bond with the us, calling it our greatest friendship and vital in a volatile world. at least 40 people have been killed and 60 wounded in an israeli airstrike on a camp for displaced palestinians in southern gaza. reports suggest the tents were hit by multiple missiles early this morning, sparking fires and leaving deep craters. israel has confirmed that strike, targeting what it described as a hamas command centre. but hamas have condemned the attack as a brutal

act of genocide and a violation of international law. and finally, some space news for you. four astronauts have launched into space on a spacex rocket, kicking off the polaris dawn mission this morning. the five day journey will test new spacesuits and feature the first private space walk with astronauts tethered to the spacecraft in the mission's riskiest manoeuvre. so far. the mission marks a significant step in private space exploration, taking that crew further from earth than anyone since the apollo moon program . those are apollo moon program. those are the latest gb news headlines for now. i'll be back with you in half an hour for the very latest gb news direct your smartphone. >> sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gb news. com forward slash alerts .

alerts. >> okay good afternoon britain. it is now 12:07 and what a crucial day it's going to be for keir starmer. he's just been addressing the tuc congress the trade union congress there. he's now heading back to london. and christopher hope is with him ahead of this winter fuel payment vote in parliament. there you are, christopher. how did the speech go at the tuc congress? and how crucial is this day for keir starmer ? this day for keir starmer? >> well, it's a crucial day, no question, emily, for sir keir starmer, two months in, he's got quite a challenge here. next week, the 16th of september is the date when this cut to the winter fuel payment for 10 million or so pensioners comes through. and that's why the government has allowed a vote on the measure in parliament today. they didn't have to. to be fair to them, they are allowing it to happen on the same day as the pm has been addressing the tuc down here in brighton, and many union leaders are not happy. we've heard from the unite union, the union are not happy about this

cut on benefits. but the pm made clear they are making tough choices. he wasn't actually quizzed directly or even talked about directly the cut to the winter fuel payment just now in his speech. but he did say that and he did warn them that he can't keep in future honour a big, big pay settlement if they're called for. but he said there will be, there'll be there'll be a difficult decision to be made on the horizon about and pay will be shaped by that. so i found it quite a muted speech. he did about 20 minutes and then at the same time for questions , partial standing questions, partial standing ovations. one heckler who shouted tax the rich a couple of times. but generally i think it was a warm welcome, but not an overwhelming to hail the conquering hero. as you might expect, just 2 or 2 months after that huge election win by the labour party. so interesting. i think he goes now back to london. i'll be travelling back, following him up there for this big vote around 3:00. on whether on the on the scrapping of the

winter fuel payment. we know it will go through that won't stop anything. the question is how many labour mps may not support it and even vote against it. and so early in a government that is quite a difficult position for starmer to be in so soon, it'll be a very testy moment. >> now, we know that the house of commons is overwhelmingly laboun of commons is overwhelmingly labour. he's got 174 seat majority in that chamber, but he won that on just 33.9% of the vote. so perhaps what's more interesting is this coalition of support or opposition, i should say , we're seeing from civil say, we're seeing from civil society, from groups representing pensioners, from even trade unionists and people on the left of the labour party, the green party, the lib dems, the green party, the lib dems, the tories, all the rest of it. it won't feel like a lot in the house of commons, but i'm sure they will feel the pressure that sort of is creating this crucible within the house of commons. on those green benches, feeling the pressure from all sides, all the way around that

building . building. >> and that's right, tom and i was i was outside the meeting of the parliamentary labour party last night. rachel reeves addressed it, a packed meeting room of hundreds of mps, cabinet ministers and peers. they had an overflow room where rachel reeves was beamed next door. 24 questions taken. only three of them were critical of the decision. but behind the scenes, people are very , very worried. i people are very, very worried. i think a lot of labour mps who weren't maybe even expecting to be mps just two months ago. before that landslide, are not used to receiving the kind of hostility they're getting in their email inboxes about a difficult choice they're making. they're saving £1.3 billion by making this cut. but of course, if 800,000 people sign up for their pension credit, that may wipe out the saving made. so the politics of this is very difficult. and that's known by by rachel reeves and her team. we spoke to her spokesman last night outside the meeting, and he pushed back very strongly against claims that this is a

plan all along. of course, there's no guarantee this fuel payment wouldn't be cut in the in the manifesto in july. but there had been in previous manifestos. but they made very clear all this happened after they came into office was announced on july 30th, when he saw the scale of what they say is a £22 billion unfunded black hole. others say to me who aren't labour mps or labour supporters that maybe this could be labour trying to demonstrate to the obr the office for budget responsibility, to the bond markets, that they can be tough on spending and are making tough choices. but the people who will suffer this winter are pensioners. >> okay. well, thank you very much indeed, christopher. hope we'll let you go before you miss your train back to westminster. speak to you soon. thank you very much. >> well, joining us now is kieran pedley, the director of politics at ipsos. the polling organisation. kieran, thank you for joining us this afternoon. i'm interested to get a view of where the public sits on this issue.i where the public sits on this issue. i think it's pretty clear we can we can guess the view of

most pensioners. but of course where where on earth is the pubuc where where on earth is the public on this big issue? and doesit public on this big issue? and does it have the cut through that that i suspect it does. >> so good afternoon to you both. i think when ipsos when we asked the public where they stand on this issue of means testing the winter fuel allowance, i mean, fundamentally they're split. we find 39% of they're split. we find 39% of the public support the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, 42% oppose. but as you alluded to, there are sharp differences by age. so when you ask those under the age of 55 more support than oppose, 46% support, 32% oppose, so almost half supporting their , though half supporting their, though not quite a majority. but of course, as you might expect amongst those aged over the age of 55, you've got 58% in opposition. so a strong majority opposed. so the public pretty much split down the middle. but strong divisions by age, which i guessis strong divisions by age, which i guess is to be expected . guess is to be expected. >> that's very interesting isn't it? well, i mean , it stands to it? well, i mean, it stands to reason that obviously people who will be directly impacted by this policy will be most opposed

to it, but how will this go down in terms of the labour membership? can you break down those figures for us in terms of labour voters, in terms of labour voters, in terms of labour supporters, in terms of even labour politicians? how's the picture looking that way ? the picture looking that way? >> so if you look at labour supporters, i don't have polling numbers for the membership itself, but labour supporters, people that voted labour a couple of months ago, a majority support this measure 52%, whereas 3 in 10 oppose it. i think that the when we're looking sort of into our crystal balls, looking into the future, i think the important point is where this policy sits in the in the round, in the aggregate of , the round, in the aggregate of, pubuc the round, in the aggregate of, public opinion more generally, i think the point is that the people that voted labour in july did so because they wanted change and because they wanted to fix public services. that's the consistent message that we get long term. when we look at how secure that voting coalition is in the future. i suspect labour's ability to deliver on both of those things is what will determine how successful they are . so ultimately, this is

they are. so ultimately, this is one measure, but it should be seen in the context of a wider picture where the public want pubuc picture where the public want public services to be fixed. if labour can do that in the long term, then they'll stand a good chance of keeping that vote in coalition together. but we've seen with the conservatives in 2019 to 2024, if you don't deliver for the people that put you into office and clearly things can go south very quickly. >> now, of course, we know how poorly the conservatives did in the in the election just two months ago. but one group that they did better with of course, was pensioners. the older you get, the more likely you were to vote conservative. could it be that the calculation the labour party has made here is that they don't need the vote of pensioners ? they're not going to pensioners? they're not going to sort of chase after the votes of pensioners in the way that the conservatives might have done , conservatives might have done, because their coalition, as these numbers suggest, 52% of them in support, but also that number that the younger you are, the more likely you are to be in support of means testing. this benefit, frankly, they're looking at their electoral coalition and thinking we can make cuts for the elderly, but

not necessarily for the young . not necessarily for the young. >> so i suspect, and i'm not suggesting you're saying this, i suspect that any party doesn't want to write off vast swathes of the electorate, particularly ones that we know older voters tend to be the most likely to show up. but as i've alluded to a moment ago, i think that there was a very clear message when we asked people that voted labour in july why they did so, which was to fix public services and deliver change. and so if labour is able to do that through these, these measures and others, then you've got a better chance of keeping that, that coalition together. i suppose the balancing act, labour have got in the coming months and years is to strike a balance between setting expectations as to the pace of change, which i think both keir starmer and rachel reeves have tried to do, alluding to difficult choices in alluding to difficult choices in a budget, but whilst also maintaining confidence that that change is coming eventually. because one of the things we saw at the general election, i don't think it's a surprise to anybody, is there's a lot of pubuc anybody, is there's a lot of public negativity and pessimism around that still exists just because there's been a change of government. so you know, keir starmer and rachel reeves will

want to make sure that that doesn't engulf their government in the way that it engulfed the previous one. >> well, they've kind of played into that misery with some of the recent speeches, but kieran, thank you very much indeed. kieran pedley, director of politics at ipsos, the polling experts company. it's quite interesting. nigel farage is making this very personal indeed. they've picked out the example of a 99 year old world war two hero, one of the last living lancaster bomber pilots. he's among one of the 9 million, 9 million or so, 10 million pensioners who will be affected by this cut, it's very easy to hit keir starmer over the head on this issue. nobody wants to see older people suffering in wintertime. we've got that survey out about how, you know, about half of people are going to use less heat as a result. and we know that that can really impact vulnerable people. it's a messy one. and the tories are hitting back saying, how come you can get rid of this when you can spend x on foreign aid? you can spend x on foreign aid? you can spend x on foreign aid? you can spend x on climate change abroad. what else? great british energy , above inflation, pay

energy, above inflation, pay rises for train drivers and the like. >> and of course, the lost tax receipts from not doing new licences in the north sea. so you're foregoing that revenue and also making cuts to sort of make up for it. it's a strange set of choices, but yes, it's right. nigel farage has referenced this constituent of his, this 99 year old constituents of his, i expect he will be trying to make an intervention in the debate this afternoon. we will bring you to the house of commons and bring you to that intervention and any other very notable ones in the debate as it gets going a little later on this afternoon. >> yes. and what exactly are we expecting? we're expecting at 1230 for the debate to kick off. it might be a little later. >> there's an urgent question now, so it might be a little bit later than that bit of a moveable feast, and then a vote around 3:00, 3:00. >> so there you go. it's going to be a packed day in the house of commons today. please do get your views in. what do you make of it all? i mean, there are some people out there as we said, younger people who are

very happy for this to be means tested this winter fuel payment because they're not getting the money on the same day as a 1700 prisoners are being let out early. it sort of looks like a you know, they're all saying we're going to be lifelong labour voters. fantastic. >> well, this is good afternoon britain on gb news. coming up next. as we alluded to, prisoners are being released early today after serving just 40% of their sentences. we're heanng 40% of their sentences. we're hearing from convicts fresh out of jail. don't go anywhere

good afternoon britain. it's 12:22 now, around 2000 prisoners in england and wales are being freed today. all this in an attempt to ease the overcrowding crisis. yes. >> so the offenders, all of whom

are serving sentences of less than five years, are being released afterjust 40% than five years, are being released after just 40% of their sentence, rather than the usual 50%. >> it comes with reports that hundreds of victims were unaware that perpetrators of crimes against them are being freed , against them are being freed, all amid warnings that the pubuc all amid warnings that the public are being put at heightened risk today. >> well, let's get more with our national reporter, charlie peters, who's outside hmp wandsworth and our yorkshire and humber reporter anna riley , humber reporter anna riley, who's outside hmp hull. charlie, i'll start with you now. you've been speaking to some of the prisoners who have been released. what have they had to say to you ? say to you? >> good afternoon. emily. tom? yeah, we've been here since 7 am. this morning and several prisoners have been coming out of these gates of this victorian prison since then. many of them saying that they were being released under the early release scheme brought in by the new labour government to ease overcrowding, because this is, by any metric , one of the worst

by any metric, one of the worst prisons in the country. in england and wales it has chronic overcrowding. the cells are dirty , they are cramped and they dirty, they are cramped and they are crumbling. many of the cells here, built in 1851, meant for single occupancy, but instead you've got several prisoners stacked up inside them. this has led to a culture and an environment of drug taking and violence. serious violence in some cases. behind these victorian walls. so, unsurprisingly, many of the people coming out of prison here today are extremely happy about it, especially because they're getting out earlier than they would have under the previous government. one man i spoke to earlier called liam fitzpatrick, a 34 year old who was being released after being convicted for gbh section 18. that's grievous bodily harm. he said. he was very grateful to sir keir starmer and the new labour government for this early release scheme. >> it's to good be out today, i'm happy to be out. and you're grateful to keir starmer for this release scheme? no, keir

starmer i am, because i'm a big laboun starmer i am, because i'm a big labour. oh really. yeah. yeah i'm out with the old, in with the new. it's been too long anyway i think. yeah everyone's everyone's been happy today i'm sure coming out there wouldn't they. yeah. there's been a lot of happy people faces in there. yeah, yeah, yeah. so you're, you're grateful to labour and you're grateful to labour and you're grateful to the 100%. yeah i'm a labour vote. labour. all my life. yeah. labour's labour's one. >> well since 2015 every prisoner being released has to meet with a probation officer. it doesn't matter how long the sentence is now, the probation services in england and wales are critically underfunded and under—resourced. that's what they say. they've got staff shortages of over 2000 personnel. but luckily for some here at hmp wandsworth, the people who are waiting outside to greet them weren't from the probation services, but their friends. there was something of a party atmosphere here this morning with corks of champagne ready to burst. for those coming out and loud music playing and actually some joints being smoked between friends as they were let out. we'll.

smoked between friends as they were let out. we'll . be the were let out. we'll. be the dream that god told me to cup last week, and ever since then hit me baby. >> i got a bad feeling about last week. i'm still trying to hit it off. she wanted a friend. i got a friend and ever since then. >> come with me now. i told you baby like a friend. >> there is a crisis in our criminal justice system. there's no doubt about that. with the amount of overcrowding in prisons and concerns that probation services have about their ability to keep on top of so many people being released, not only today, but in the coming weeks, there's a second wave of people set to be released under this scheme in october. there are additional concerns not only for victims but also for prisoner welfare . but also for prisoner welfare. lots of people not necessarily having a place to stay tonight very much indeed. >> charlie peters , our national >> charlie peters, our national reporter. astonishing to hear that prisoners, upon being released, joining this party atmosphere, lighting up or smoking cannabis, isn't that immediately? i'm pretty sure it is against the law outside of a prison. it's brazen , absolutely

prison. it's brazen, absolutely brazen. well, anna riley is outside hmp hull. and what's the atmosphere where you are, anna? >> good afternoon. well, not that party atmosphere that charlie's just described . charlie's just described. there's been no champagne corks popping there's been no champagne corks popping or joints being sparked popping orjoints being sparked here, but there's been about ten or so prisoners that we've seen released early as part of this scheme. they did look pleased to certainly be leaving, but not all of it was as coordinated as it could potentially be. we don't know how much notice these prisoners may have been given. one, in fact, asked to borrow my phone so that he could ring his dad to come and give him a lift. now, this prison here, similar to hmp wandsworth, it's also a victorian prison built in 1870. it's a category b prison. so it does have some prisoners here who are serving shorter sentences, some prisoners that are on remand or waiting to be sentenced and some that are waiting to be moved to other

prisons. and like other category b prisons, it does have a problem with overcrowding. in its last report, overcrowding was mentioned as an issue as well as a rat infestation. now, earlier i spoke to a prisoner who gave his name as bill. he'd been serving time for assault. he was for in four years, and he was released after a year and a half. this is what he had to say. what would you say to some of the victims that are saying you've not served your full time? >> i think it's a difficult one because. right. i don't think anyone really gets a lot out of prison. you get get some people. so this is my first time and then you get other people who are in and in and in, in, in and in and they're not you don't get anything productive from being in. i've spent the last, you know, near enough two years just in my cell . so know, near enough two years just in my cell. so i've not gained anything from it. i tried to get on an open uni course and i

couldn't . so it's i think in couldn't. so it's i think in here it's hard to rehabilitate. so no one's winning at the end of the day . of the day. >> bill, they're saying that no one's winning, but that he didn't feel there was enough rehabilitation in this prison to equip him after life out on the inside, but certainly will be here throughout this afternoon watching and waiting, speaking to people as they're leaving the prison on this early release scheme. >> well, thank you very much indeed, anna priti. extraordinary to hear a recently released convict bill. was it saying that no one's winning? i suppose if we asked the families orindeed suppose if we asked the families or indeed the victims of these crimes, they would say that they're winning. but criminals are being removed from society , are being removed from society, to charlie and anna, thank you very much for those reports. >> it's fascinating, actually, to see this policy that we've been talking about in the abstract come to life with those

interviews of the people who are actually leaving, seeing that atmosphere very different from wandsworth to hull. jubilations in wandsworth. as a result of this, lots of people saying there was one person who'd been reported in the daily mail. i think it is as saying i'm now a lifelong labour voter. thanks, keir starmer. this isn't the press that he's going to want to want to have on a difficult day, as it is extraordinary. >> listening to, mr fitzpatrick, who, who charlie was speaking to, he said he was in there for gbh. i've looked up the details. he had ten previous convictions for 12 offences. now i don't want to suggest that he's completely unreformed, but if he had ten previous convictions, this would have been the 11th conviction that he was in for. and now has been early released for. why on earth does anyone think this man is unlikely to again commit grievous bodily harm? >> well hang on, tom, we're told

that no violent offenders would be released and that would be managed in such a way that no such criminals would be released early. it's outrageous. it's a lie. >> and imprisoned for he was in the smoking area of a bar. he asked for a cigarette from someone who didn't give him one, at which point he punched him to the floor and delivered heavy blows to the side of the victim's face, repeatedly set about the stricken man punched him another eight times as he lay defenceless on the floor. a bouncer intervened and pulled the attacker off the victim. and that was only the latest . after that was only the latest. after ten previous convictions for 12 offences of common assault. this man sounds violent. how on earth? well, he is . man sounds violent. how on earth? well, he is. is this man being released? i mean, the last two years in prison. is that supposed to have completely changed him in society? safe now? is it fine now? hang on, what about a trust in the government? >> they said no violent offenders will be released. well, there's one in question there. we've also been warned of domestic abusers who will be released and the victims haven't

been told. told that there will been told. told that there will be an increased rate of re—offending as a result of this sudden early release scheme. it's a it's a it's a pretty depressing picture actually, isn't it? >> a very depressing picture. and the government is pretending they had no other option. that's that's what's really gruelling. we spoke to christopher hope yesterday on this program . who yesterday on this program. who said who revealed that not a single cabinet minister at yesterday's cabinet meeting brought this up. we know that estonia, the country of estonia, offered their prison places to the uk. the government did not take them up on that offer. we could have sent prisoners abroad. we could have used other services. we could have deported people . they chose to do none of people. they chose to do none of that. instead, violent criminals are being released onto our streets today . streets today. >> emergency space in the bibby stockholm, the raf bases that were going to be used for asylum seekers that are no longer surely something could have been better than this. anyway, we've got much more coming up on today's show, not least that crucial vote for starmer on winter fuel payments. here are live pictures from the commons. we're expecting the debate to

start very shortly indeed. but first, let's get the news headunes first, let's get the news headlines with sam. >> very good afternoon to you. it's 1232. the top stories from the newsroom this lunchtime. sir keir starmer has warned that economic challenges will shape future pay deals, and the tough decisions lie ahead. as he took to the stage at the trades union congress . earlier as the first congress. earlier as the first prime minister to address the tuc since gordon brown, he thanked those who ended the burden of tory rule in this year's general election . but he year's general election. but he warned that rebuilding britain will, he says, be long and difficult, pointing to a £22 billion black hole left by the conservatives hundreds of prisoners are being released early in england and wales to tackle overcrowding in jails. around 1700 inmates will walk free today in addition to the usual weekly releases, as prison populations reach a record high. downing street insists the move was necessary to prevent unchecked criminality due to

lack of available cells. however, critics fear the early releases could lead to reoffending, with some inmates unprepared and facing homelessness . justice secretary homelessness. justice secretary shabana mahmood is insisting that that measure is temporary. she says it's giving the government time to reform the prison system . prison system. >> if we had not done this, we faced courts unable to hold trials, police unable to make arrests and a total breakdown of law and order. this is not the long term solution. there is more that we must do, but it was the necessary first step that we had to take following the disgraceful dereliction of duty by the previous government . by the previous government. >> the government is facing backlash over its plan to slash winter fuel payments for most pensioners. the controversial move , defended by sir keir move, defended by sir keir starmer as a tough decision, will see 10 million pensioners lose up to £300 in support. critics, including some labour mps, are warning it could leave pensioners choosing between heating and eating. the chancellor, rachel reeves,

insists the cuts are necessary to address a £22 billion deficit, blaming reckless conservative spending. she says the public inquiry into the crimes of convicted child killer nurse lucy letby has begun today at liverpool town hall. the investigation is scrutinising how letby, now serving 15 life sentences, was able to murder and harm babies at the countess of chester hospital despite repeated warnings to hospital bosses this week. opening statements will be heard with evidence expected to continue until december and at least 40 people have been killed and 60 wounded in an israeli airstrike on a camp for displaced palestinians in southern gaza . palestinians in southern gaza. reports suggest that tents were hit by multiple missiles earlier this morning, sparking fires and leaving deep craters. israel has confirmed the strike, targeting what it described as a hamas command centre. emergency crews are still working to recover casualties from the scene . those casualties from the scene. those are the latest gb news

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>> good afternoon britain. it's 39 minutes past midday and we're going to take a quick break from all of the politics. and there is a lot of politics today. but the princess of wales of course has finished her chemotherapy treatment and said her focus is now to stay cancer free. >> she made the announcement in a heartfelt family video which showed her spending private time with prince william and their children. now she is set to carry out a few engagements before the end of the year. there's lots of planning going along which could include the remembrance events in november and her annual christmas carol

concert. >> well, let's get the very latest with our royal correspondent, cameron walker, who joins us in the studio . who joins us in the studio. cameron, i don't think anyone was expecting this announcement yesterday, but what does this mean? going forward? >> i think there's certainly cause for optimism. the fact that she has completed her chemotherapy is clearly good news. but i think a note of caution it's only a handful of engagements she's going to be carrying out until the end of the year, which suggests to me she still has good days and bad days with her health. i think what's also telling is that kensington palace appear to be not refusing to confirm stuff in advance, but i'm getting the impression that if the princess is going to be attending an event such as a remembrance sunday, such as the carol concert, it won't be confirmed until much nearer to the time, because i suppose from their point of view is if they announce it in the usual way a week or so in advance, and she has to pull out last minute because she has a particularly bad day the day before we will all panic. the public will all panic, and there'll be a lot of speculation and what they learnt from march is they really want to keep control of the narrative

here. >> yes. and it was, it was a wonderful video last yesterday evening. it, it came out about 430 in the afternoon and very unusual to have a three minute video so beautifully curated, very professional indeed, showing the intimacy of their family life and their relationship as partners . relationship as partners. cameron, though the prince of wales has been seen out and about today, has he not? >> yes he has. and apologies. apparently my microphone wasn't on just then, but hopefully you got the gist of it from tom and emily's mc, but yes, he is currently at a primary school in llanelli. he's meeting a ten year old ruby davies, who went viral in may this year after winning the category for welsh learners at the 2024 prize. and he's meeting some pupils and seeing performances. he's also been doing a bit of a walkabout, as you can see here, he has been handed so many get well soon cards for the princess of wales dunng cards for the princess of wales during that walkabout. in these photographs you can see on your screen, you just see him being handed a get well soon card there on your screen. for those of you watching on television, i think he truly is touched. i think he truly is touched. i think by the support of the welsh people and indeed across

the united kingdom and the commonwealth and the world. >> interesting facial hair. he's rocking there, styling like his great grandfather know his grandfather, his grandfather . grandfather, his grandfather. >> yes, indeed he does look grandfather. great great grandfather, george vi, all the great great grandfather george v, perhaps as well. yes. he first had this beard during the good luck to the olympic athletes in the summer, and we all thought it was just a bit of a summer houday it was just a bit of a summer holiday fad. but then he came back with that beard. during his visits to the saatchi gallery in london last week. so. and he's clearly got it here today. so maybe it is to here stay. i mean, i don't know some people onune mean, i don't know some people online saying it's scruffy, some people loving it. so i suppose it's you love it a ginger beard. >> yes. >> yes. >> are we are we are we for in perhaps another bearded. there was, there was this time around the first world war, you know, where you had nicholas ii, the tsar of russia, with his glorious beard. and, was it george? george the fifth, george the fifth had a beard.

>> yes he did. george the sixth did not. >> in in in the uk. and of course, they were cousins. and so you could really see the family resemblance and i suppose i'm, i'm looking at these pictures of prince william here and i'm thinking, goodness me, this is rather casual. it's no, i don't think, i think i think this is looking sort of harking back almost to 100 years ago and that time of royalty. >> yeah. and remember the role of the monarchy or the monarchy even as head of the armed forces, what role did the armed forces, what role did the armed forces have for 100 years? they had to be clean shaven. what rule has suddenly not is not happening . they now can have a happening. they now can have a beard if they so wish. so perhaps. i mean, this is just me speculating here, but perhaps prince william is a taking after a few of the soldiers who we've seen, perhaps on display over the last year or so who do have beards. and prince william is thinking, hold on, i'm going to try and look a bit cool here with the beard too. >> i hope he grows a big lord kitchener style moustache that would be. that would be impressive. >> maybe he looks a bit more chiselled . chiselled. >> i'm not sure about. >> i'm not sure about. >> only if it's sort of a twist.

yes, exactly. a sort of. your country needs you moustache. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> all the tradition. >> all the tradition. >> we have an idea of where that beautiful video was set. >> yes, it was filmed in norfolk and it was last month. so on nonh and it was last month. so on north norfolk coast and also on their anmer hall estate for sandringham estate as well . so sandringham estate as well. so in the end, it was all about nature and the princess really keen to get across how she found sanctuary in the natural world. and of course, spending time with her closest family as well, not taking each day as it comes and not taking anything for granted. >> they are rather beautiful, aren't they? as a family picture perfect. >> it's so lovely to see the sort of family time , even though sort of family time, even though we haven't been able to see her for the country. she's there for her family and that's really important. >> thank you cameron cameron walker, our royal correspondent. now we've got lots more coming up on today's show. david lammy on foreign secretary and antony blinken, the us secretary of state, are currently in a bilateral before a press conference there you go. setting up there at the foreign office in central london. just how testy could this press conference be? been a bit of a conflict over arms

>> good afternoon britain. it is 47 minutes past midday, and the foreign secretary, david lammy, is about to host a press conference with america's top diplomat, secretary of state antony blinken. this following bilateral talks aimed at boosting that famous special relationship between the two nations. although the relationship has been tested recently, it has indeed not least over arms sales to israel . least over arms sales to israel. >> but the discussions will focus on deepening economic and security ties. also ongoing support for ukraine, and also promoting peace in the middle east. now, they do tend to take questions at these types of press conference, don't they ? press conference, don't they? >> so we can see the room filling up with not only sort of officials, but also there are journalists there. there will be

questions after what i'm sure are meticulously prepared diplomatic speeches that sort of speak in a round about the issues to make everyone seem like they're happy families. i suspect i suspect it will be the question and answer session after the statements. that is the actual sort of meat of what goes on today. >> yes, absolutely. well, we are joined by political correspondent at the spectator, james heale james, tell us while we're waiting for the two men to appear behind those lecterns with the flags flowing in the background, tell us what we can expect . expect. >> well, emily, obviously at these kind of occasions, it's all about smiles and niceties. the two nations talking about their historic ties and their work they're doing. and the truth is that regardless really, of who's in number 10 and who's in the white house, the strategic relationship between these two countries is so deep that they can kind of withstand any temporary ups and downs. but the one thing every journalist in that room will want to ask about is, of course, the middle

east. and following the suspension of some arms to israel by the foreign secretary a fortnight ago, there have been reports of a rupture between the two countries. so we will wait to see what's going to happen there. and i think that it's going to be very clear that there'll be some kind of agreement worked out in between the two countries. and i suspect that david lammy and antony blinken will be saying that they have much more in common than divides them. but i think that that's going to be the key thing. everyone will want to ask aboutin thing. everyone will want to ask about in that room. >> it's interesting listening to the uk government's line on this , the uk government's line on this, very different to the reports that we've been reading over the last week or so of the americans being furious with the united kingdom, and the uk government has this repeated line that the united states has different legal tests. they are they acknowledge, the uk has a different legal system. i think that's the word that keir starmer keeps on using acknowledge, which is a very clever sort of diplomatic word, because it sort of skirts the issue of whether they're happy

or otherwise. james. of course they're going to want to appear like they're happy families today. but beneath the surface, there has been real anger. >> yes, there's certainly been angerin >> yes, there's certainly been anger in some circles in washington. the key question, of course, is how much is that reflected at the top of the government in the white house over there? i thought it was really striking that interview that the prime minister did at the weekend with laura kuenssberg on the bbc on sunday in which she said of course there's been some tension, some rupture . and he very quickly rupture. and he very quickly went, no, there hasn't, and sort of slapped that down, so i think the key thing to be drawn out in this press conference, tom, is going to be the way in which david lammy answers those questions, conscious of his domestic audience versus how antony blinken, very aware of the democrats and their re—election prospects in just 50 days. now, how they're going to choose to answer that? because, as you say, there's sort of ways in which you can tiptoe around the legal language about all of this, the diplomatic niceties. but both know this is very, very political. this matters hugely to their different respective electorates. and i think it could be a potentially tricky

one, given that on most other issues, actually, the labour government and democratic government and democratic government are broadly in lockstep, whether that be ukraine or other security issues as well. >> yes, david lammy has been quite a loose lipped in the past with how he's spoken about previous presidents and presidential candidates . now to presidential candidates. now to of course, i'm thinking about donald trump. oh, he has just appeared david lammy and antony blinken. let's listen in. renee thank you. >> you've been a great support to me in my early weeks as foreign secretary, and i'm very grateful . i think we've spoken grateful. i think we've spoken almost every other week since i took office. so it's a pleasure took office. so it's a pleasure to welcome you to here london. and clearly we're meeting at a critical moment, a critical moment for securing a ceasefire in gaza with the shocking deaths

in gaza with the shocking deaths in khan yunis this morning only reinforcing how desperately needed that ceasefire is , and a needed that ceasefire is, and a critical moment for supporting ukraine as we enter the third winter of putin's illegal war. it's also a critical moment addressing the climate crisis as we head towards unga and to cop as the closest of friends and allies , our response is clear allies, our response is clear we're united in our desire to address these challenges together. we just opened a new uk, us strategic dialogue, a forum which i believe can help us remain strategically aligned in tackling these challenges on

russia and ukraine. today, i can confirm that tony and i will be travelling to kyiv this week. the first joint visit of this kind for well over a decade. we are the closest of allies, so i'm delighted that we will travel together, demonstrating our commitment to ukraine and on the middle east. we are completely aligned on the need to secure that ceasefire , to secure that ceasefire, completely aligned on the need to get the region onto a path to peace and reconciliation with a two state solution at its heart and completely aligned too, on the need to tackle iran's malign activity in the region and beyond . we're seeing beyond. we're seeing a

disturbing pattern of greater iranian support for the kremlin's illegal war, and we discussed today our shared commitment to holding tehran to account for their undermining of global stability . last month, we global stability. last month, we also saw a historic breakthrough in defence innovation between our two countries, the so—called itar exemption is a landmark export control change which will benefit the us and aukus partners, covering up to £500 million worth of defence exports a year and finally, we discussed today our cooperation on global challenges ahead of unga in new york. we share a desire to see ambitious global action on climate, to see secure global supply chains for critical

minerals, to and see relations with global majority countries prosper on the basis of mutual respect. the uk us relationship is special . respect. the uk us relationship is special. it's respect. the uk us relationship is special . it's special to respect. the uk us relationship is special. it's special to me personally and it's special to so many brits and americans. only a few weeks ago we saw the arsenal women's team head over there for their pre—season. they were following of course, the tottenham hotspur women's football team. but tony, it's a pleasure to welcome you here today. thank you so much for spending the time . spending the time. >> david. thank you so much for not just your warm hospitality today , but the extraordinary today, but the extraordinary engagement that we've had ever since you've been on the job. and i said earlier that foreign secretary hit the ground at a full sprint and that is not an exaggeration. i think, given the multiplicity, the complexity and the urgency of the challenges we're facing, we are so grateful

to have such a strong partner. and david and the government, the prime minister. and today and in the days ahead, we're continuing to deepen the work that we're doing together , we that we're doing together, we talk about the special relationship . i like to call it relationship. i like to call it essential . essential for relationship. i like to call it essential. essential for our nations, essential for our people, essential for people. well beyond our shores , and well beyond our shores, and that's why, on david's first visit to the united states, we agreed to launch this strategic dialogue to even more effectively advance our enduring shared priorities, our interests, our values, priorities that will be at the heart of the decision that our teams are having. but also that prime minister starmer and president biden will have later this week in washington . those this week in washington. those priorities, of course, include our resolute support for ukraine. faced with the ongoing russian aggression, the united states, the united kingdom are leaders in providing security assistance to ukraine and

together from day one continuing together from day one continuing to this day, we stand strongly with our ukrainian partners . as with our ukrainian partners. as david said, we'll be travelling together to kyiv this week and i think it's a critical moment for ukraine, in the midst of what is an intense fall fighting season with russia continuing to escalate its aggression, aggression against civilians, against critical infrastructure and of course, against ukrainian forces, we see it ramping up its attacks on cities on people in particular targeting the energy infrastructure, electricity, all infrastructure, electricity, all in advance of the coldest months. putin's winter playbook of weaponizing energy and electricity . this joint trip electricity. this joint trip reflects strong transatlantic support, aligned also with our nato allies, with our indo—pacific partners , with the indo—pacific partners, with the more than 50 countries that continue to strongly and resolutely support ukraine.

together we're working to make sure that ukraine can defend its territory against the ongoing aggression that it will be able to stand strongly on its own two feet militarily, economically , feet militarily, economically, democratically and that it will remain on the path that the ukrainian people so desire. it to be on, of closer integration with europe, with transatlantic institutions, ukraine is clearly on that path. together we're going to continue to help it move along that path . now, one move along that path. now, one of the reasons that putin is able to continue this aggression is because of the provision of support from the people's repubuc support from the people's republic of china, the biggest suppuer republic of china, the biggest supplier of machine tools, the biggest supplier of microelectronics, all of which are helping russia sustain its defence industrial base . our defence industrial base. our countries are aligned in holding accountable prc entities that are engaged in these practices, fuelling the russian war machine .

fuelling the russian war machine. we also discussed joint efforts to ensure peace and stability across the taiwan strait and freedom of navigation and overflight in the south china for sea both of us, maintaining peace and stability , preserving peace and stability, preserving the status quo is essential, and it's essential not just to us. it's again essential to countries all around the world. we also agree on the importance of continuing to seek ways to cooperate with china on global challenges. that affect our mutual interests and affect people everywhere, like the climate talks that the us. team held in beijing just in recent days, in advance of the next cop now to wage this war of aggression on ukraine, putin is also relying increasingly on help from iran and the dprk in these instances to get actual weapons in clear violation of multiple un security council resolutions. now tehran has long suppued resolutions. now tehran has long supplied deadly drones. it's

built a drone factory in russia. it's trained russian personnel on how to operate them for some time. the united states has warned of an additional threat. the provision by iran of ballistic missiles to russia for use in ukraine. we've warned tehran publicly . we've warned tehran publicly. we've warned tehran publicly. we've warned tehran privately that taking this step would constitute a dramatic escalation. dozens of russian military personnel have been trained in iran to use the fata 360 close range ballistic missile system, which has a maximum range of 75 miles. russia has now received shipments of these ballistic missiles and will likely use them within weeks in ukraine against ukrainians. russia has an array of its own ballistic missiles, but the supply of iranian missiles enables russia to use more of its arsenal for targets that are further from the front line, while dedicating the front line, while dedicating the new missiles it's receiving from iran for closer range

targets . this development, and targets. this development, and the growing cooperation between russia and iran threatens european security and demonstrates how iran's destabilising influence reaches far beyond the middle east. for its part , russia is sharing its part, russia is sharing technology that iran seeks. this is a two way street, including on nuclear issues, as well as some space information . so as some space information. so as iran's destabilising activities spread, so does russia , sowing spread, so does russia, sowing even greater insecurity in their regions and around the world. in recent days, we've been sharing intelligence behind these findings with our allies and partners , and working together partners, and working together to ensure that there will be significant economic consequences for tehran's actions. the united states will be announcing further sanctions on iran later today, including additional measures on iran air. we expect our allies and partners will be announcing their own new measures on iran as well. iran's new president and foreign minister have

repeatedly said that they want to restore engagement with europe . they want to receive europe. they want to receive sanctions relief , destabilising sanctions relief, destabilising actions like these will achieve exactly the opposite. as david mentioned , we also discussed mentioned, we also discussed efforts by russia to interfere in our democracies . we agree in our democracies. we agree that deepening cooperation with our partners in europe to push back against the kremlin's efforts to use disinformation and lies to polarise our societies, distort the public debate. >> well , we've been debate. >> well, we've been listening to us, secretary of state antony blinken and uk foreign secretary david lammy announced, amongst other things, their joint visit to ukraine. a big show of solidarity, of friendship between these two countries which after a week of a fairly testy reports about their relationship, seems like a big repair plan. >> yes, i believe that would be the first uk us joint visit to ukraine. we're going to drop

back in to the foreign office dunng back in to the foreign office during the q&a. we're going to be listening in to find out any highlights for you. but in the meantime, we are going to cross back to brighton because mps are going to be voting this afternoon on labour's controversial plan to scrap winter fuel payments. well, the plan will see around 10 million pensioners losing up to £300 to help with their energy costs. now the prime minister is set to receive a mini rebellion, with some mps refusing to vote with the government. >> our political editor , >> our political editor, christopher hope, has the very latest for us because , latest for us because, christopher, we're not expecting the government to lose this vote, but we are going to sort of get a sense of where the country is and where the passionate arguments really are . passionate arguments really are. >> tom. that's so right. i'm still here in brighton, heading off on the train back to london following sir keir starmer, the prime minister, who's been speaking for the first time for a labour leader to a tuc conference here in brighton in 15 years since 2009. you might i might have expected an outpouring of emotion about that

moment from the delegates there, but it's much more workmanlike. i thought i was quite surprised by the lack of passion, the lack of acclaiming. this conquering prime minister that you may have expected in the hall there. maybe that's because i think the hand that they've been dealt with, they've got to play now with, they've got to play now with the debt, a debt. so high with the debt, a debt. so high with tax take so high is so difficult for any government, not least a labour government. and that's why the vote today is so important that the government's doing is cutting this £300 payment. as you said , this £300 payment. as you said, to around 10 million pensioners, saving £1.3 billion. that vote happens around 3 pm. today. we're expecting maybe a dozen or so abstentions. i would say 3 or 4 might vote against, but i think that barely scratched the surface on the concern and fury behind the scenes amongst labour mps. labour mps who were not meant to be mps before the before the landslide, who are now seeing what it's like to govern and the hard choices you have to make. but we heard from sir keir starmer earlier. he also had some tough words on

p331- also had some tough words on pay. he told the tuc that the government will not risk its reputation for economic stability and given there will be difficult decisions , he said be difficult decisions, he said on horizon and pay will be shaped by that . so he made very shaped by that. so he made very clear warnings going forward that the very generous pay deals we saw just a few months ago when labour won power, may not be repeated again . be repeated again. >> indeed, christopher hope there live in brighton, about to make his way back to london, one of the most attractive train stations is very beautiful, actually. you always notice the architecture i do. >> i really liked hmp wandsworth as well. beautiful prison 1851 lets us speak now to the former labour mp for knowles, george howarth . george, you were in the howarth. george, you were in the house of commons until about five minutes ago, but this is a very different house of commons to the one that we've seen for the last 14 years. the prime minister is very obviously going to win this vote, but nevertheless it will be a big test of his leadership . test of his leadership. >> it will. and, you know,

there's no pretending that it's not a difficult time for the government, and it's probably the first big problem they've had since they came into power only a matter of weeks ago. but i think he's got to try and balance two things. the first is to cement the government's reputation for stability in the way that they run the public finances and the effect that has on the economy and at the same time, to give hope to people that the appalling situation they faced with the last tory government, and particularly the £22 billion black hole, they left, will be addressed . so it's left, will be addressed. so it's a really difficult balancing act. for what it's worth, my view is that before this is finished, there will be some

more money put into the system to ensure that those who are likely to be affected by the cold in the coming winter will be properly cared for. >> so you think there will be some? we may well see some george howarth. we may well see some kind of compromise, maybe come the budget. but keir starmer is very much trying to push the narrative that labour have absolutely no choice but to cut these winter fuel payments in order to balance the books in order to fill this financial black hole. but the public can see for themselves that decisions have been made. and it's all about political choices, isn't it ? 9 it's all about political choices, isn't it? 9 billion for pubuc choices, isn't it? 9 billion for public sector pay rises. you've got 8 billion on gb energy. lots of other money going on foreign aid, climate change. et cetera. et cetera . so this is a choice et cetera. so this is a choice that the government has made. they didn't have to make it. and it's not necessary. >> well, i wouldn't accept that.

it's not necessary. because if you've got the sort of deficit we're faced with and, yes, some things have to be done straight away, settling these long running public sector pay disputes was important, running public sector pay disputes was important , for disputes was important, for example . but the crucial thing example. but the crucial thing is to stabilise the economy, create growth, and then be the sort of government people are hoping to have in the years ahead.so hoping to have in the years ahead. so as i say, it is a difficult balancing act . difficult balancing act. >> did train drivers earning £60,000 a year have to be given £10,000 a year more so that pensioners can get £300 a year less ? less? >> yeah, i mean, it's an important point to make and you know, people are starting to have that conversation, but we're not at the end of it yet.

as i said earlier , i'm fairly as i said earlier, i'm fairly confident that mitigations will be put in place so that those who could be worst affected aren't. but by the same token, you know, there are a lot of people who've said to me over the last few days , well, the last few days, well, actually, i don't need it . and actually, i don't need it. and it's dealing with that issue as well that, you know, subsidies are being given on energy costs to people who themselves admit they don't need it. so you've got to get that right, as well as the other end of the spectrum, those who would be adversely affected . right as well. >> okay. well, thank you very much indeed. george howarth, former labour mp for knowsley. thank you very much indeed for your time. well, he thinks there's going to be a little bit of a compromise, made a bit of money bunged. i mean what would be the point of that. >> i think you're still going to where have you make the line there are going to be losers

here. yeah. and the tory mp neil o'brien has done some pretty extraordinary data work because the government isn't releasing the government isn't releasing the data on who will be affected. they've done the numbers. parliamentary questions have been tabled and written and normally the government would release the work that they've done. they'd make that public. they're not doing that in this instance. so this conservative mp has had to go and crunch the numbers himself. it turns out that in the most marginal labour constituencies, the ones that labour won by the least number of votes, you have the most number of people affected , number of people affected, 20,000 pensioners being affected in some of these very marginal. >> so they are hitting their voters, >> it depends. maybe none of these people voted labour. i doubt it, i doubt it. i think quite a lot of people would have chosen to vote labour, or maybe to stay at home. i think probably more people would have chosen to stay at home, who might now be motivated to vote at the next election. i think it is extraordinary that the labour party or the government, i should say, is trying to hide some of this data, perhaps because if they were to publish

it and people were to see the official data from the government, some of these labour mps would think twice about how they voted in the next two hours. >> i just don't think it washes that this is all the tories fault, and that this is the only way to balance the books. when there's so much spending going elsewhere. anyway, we're going to cross back to central london, where antony blinken and david lammy are now taking questions from the media. that's after they confirmed they will be doing a joint visit to kyiv together later this week . together later this week. >> and this is a threat not only to ukraine and to the ukrainian people. it's a threat to all of europe. i think if you ask any of our european colleagues, they see russia posing the greatest threat to european security since the end of the cold war. so countries that are playing into this , by supplying russia, into this, by supplying russia, they are fuelling a threat to europe more broadly, not just ukraine. and they have to take that into account, particularly in their own relationships with europe . europe. >> as you would expect , tony europe. >> as you would expect, tony and ihave >> as you would expect, tony and

i have discussed ukraine now since taking office nearly every other week, and we had a fruitful discussion today. it's hugely important, i said in my opening that this was a critical moment. it's hugely important that we're travelling together, to hear from our ukrainian counterparts. and president zelenskyy, their assessment of the situation on the ground and their needs, on the ground. it would, however, be quite wrong to comment on the detail of operational issues in a forum such as this, because the only person who could benefit is putin, and we will do nothing , putin, and we will do nothing, to give him any advantage in his illegal invasion. on the transfer of ballistic missiles from iran. this is a troubling pattern that we're seeing from

iran. it is definitely a significant escalation , and we significant escalation, and we are coordinating action and we'll have more to say on that very shortly . thank you. very shortly. thank you. >> patrick wintour, the guardian , >> patrick wintour, the guardian, >> patrick wintour, the guardian, >> thank you very much . >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> secretary of state, the israeli defence minister galant, this week warned that israel had reached a strategic junction in its war with hamas, where it must choose between the risk of a broader escalation and a hostage deal with hamas. >> do you agree with that assessment ? and secondly, is it assessment? and secondly, is it not really the case that these ceasefire talks are at a deadlock? and could you in any way give any assurances to benjamin netanyahu about the philadelphia corridor and the there is no need for israeli forces to be there. and israel's security will be preserved and foreign secretary, you were in the uae last week . the uae is

the uae last week. the uae is one of the few countries that has said it's willing to put troops into gaza as a peacekeeping force, would you welcome that? would you like to see other arab states make the same offer ? same offer? >> on the ceasefire? here's what i can tell you . more than 90% of i can tell you. more than 90% of the issues have been agreed . the issues have been agreed. decided? so we're down to a handful of issues, not even a handful of issues, not even a handful of issues that are hard, but fully resolvable in our judgement. and as we've said before, when you get down to the last 10%, the last ten metres, those are almost by definition the hardest ground to cover . but the hardest ground to cover. but we believe that these are fully resolvable. right now. we're working intensely with our egyptian and qatari counterparts

to work together to bridge any any remaining gaps and in the coming time, very soon, we'll put that before the parties and we'll see what they say. i think what is evident, though, is the strong interest that everyone in the region has in being able to get the ceasefire concluded. it's clearly in israel's interest. it's in his interest to get hostages home. it's in his interest to turn down the temperature in gaza. it's in its interest to have possible off ramps in the north with hezbollah and lebanon, that a ceasefire in gaza would make more possible. it's in its interest to also further enable us to calm the situation in the red sea, with the houthis, and

it's in its interest because it opens other prospects that could fundamentally alter israel's security for the long term, including the prospect of normalisation of relations between saudi arabia and israel, we saw back on april 13th when israel was attacked directly by iran for the first time, something unprecedented . and something unprecedented. and that was other countries coming to its active defence. and this showed in embryonic form what the future could be, a future in which israel is integrated into the region in which it enjoys normal relations with other countries, something it sought from day one of its existence and which it's protected against the aggression coming from iran or its proxies, and in which iran and those proxies are isolated . that's very much isolated. that's very much possible in the future, but it requires resolving gaza, ending the conflict there. it requires , the conflict there. it requires, as david said, a credible pathway for the palestinians to a state of their own. and these

are very hard issues. but that future is very powerful and very positive. the alternative is a perpetuation of conflict, a perpetuation of conflict, a perpetuation of conflict, a perpetuation of insecurity and multiple fronts at the same time, not only in gaza, but we see what's happening in the west bank and growing insecurity there. we see what's happening in the north and the possibility of conflict with hezbollah and even broader conflict with iran. from day one, our purpose has been not only to make sure that israel can effectively ensure that october 7th never happens again, but also that the conflict doesn't spread. and we're intent on that . but the we're intent on that. but the longer all of this goes on, the greater the risks of just that happening. so i think for israel, for clearly for the palestinian people and especially palestinians in gaza who desperately need this conflict to be over so that they can get the help that they need

and begin to rebuild their lives for every country in the region, the interest is clear. i can't speak to what's in the mind of mr sinwar and where his interests lie, he will have to make those judgements for himself . but make those judgements for himself. but we remain resolute in working to bring the ceasefire over the line, because it would open up so many more positive prospects , and let's positive prospects, and let's see where we are in the coming days. >> could i just say , patrick, >> could i just say, patrick, that tony's assessment that 90% of the deal is there is completely correct , and in the completely correct, and in the end, what you need are partners for peace and that is now in the hands of bibi netanyahu, and sinwar to get us over the line and to take that deal that is on the table. and we've now been talking about that deal for weeks, it was important to go to

the uae as it's important to speak to arab partners across the region. and the focus of your question is on the day after , and clearly it's on the after, and clearly it's on the security guarantees that are important for israel to have, and arab partners and certainly the uae are showing some forward leaning, in their commitment to securing that. but what i think is absolutely essential, and they all say this is that there has to be a pathway to two states. that has to be present, or they cannot give that, commitment. and then there's also discussion of both the security in gaza and the administration. and clearly we have to see a reformed and

renewed palestinian authority. and there can be no role for hamas going forward . so we're hamas going forward. so we're very focused on the day after. but let's remember that when we talk about the deal, it is a phased deal. let us get over the line to get to that first phase. and let us see that pathway to security on both sides . security on both sides. >> and shane tandon from afp , >> and shane tandon from afp, >> and shane tandon from afp, >> thank you, mr secretary. >> thank you, mr secretary. >> okay . there we are watching >> okay. there we are watching antony blinken, secretary of state us, and also david lammy. there are foreign secretary answering a few questions from the press, specifically that question about the path to peace. a gaza ceasefire. they say they 90% of the way there. but the last 10% is the hardest. >> i'm just wondering, listening to that, how much media training these because they were in a

meeting before this press conference. i think they've been told to dull it down as much as humanly possible. after all of these, reports of sort of his testy relationship. and, and the americans aren't happy with the british attitude towards arms sales. and there's been all of this sort of consternation. this is operation happy families. >> this is operation monotone. >> this is operation monotone. >> this is operation make everything smooth, everything over make everything. we're going to do a joint visit. we're going to do a joint visit. we're going to do a joint visit. we're going to make everything seem fine. why are they doing all of this? because under the surface , this? because under the surface, there has obviously been tension. >> yes, there's lots of. i agree, i agree, tony, but there we go . we go. >> tony. >> tony. >> tony, first name tony, tony and david. besties. okay, well moving on, germany . germany. moving on, germany. germany. have you seen what's going on over there? they've announced plans to impose tougher controls at all land borders in a mass crackdown on what they're calling irregular migration. >> well, the new regulations are due to start next monday and be in place for an initial six months before being reviewed.

now this comes after the islamic state group claimed responsibility for a knife attack in the western city of soungen attack in the western city of solingen that killed three people just last month. >> well , people just last month. >> well, we're joined now by the editor in chief at the magazine ni us, julian reichelt. >> julian, thanks so much for joining us on the program. a lot of people will be thinking, will be looking at headlines like this saying, hang on, border controls. we thought germany was slap bang in the middle of something called the schengen area, with no border controls at all. what's going on? >> well, the schengen deal from the beginning was very simple controls on the outer borders and no controls on the inner borders of europe. and this deal borders of europe. and this deal, you know, has never materialised. there are no effective borders on, you know, countries like spain or italy or greece on the outer borders of the eu. and finally, it seems after ten painful years, it's been ten years, almost since the initial refugee crisis started, that brought millions of people

to germany , millions, and is to germany, millions, and is still bringing 300,000 per year. that finally an administration is willing to do something about it and initiate these total border controls on all german borders with other countries , borders with other countries, which then effectively may mean, i say, may because we still don't know yet. that will be decided today , which may mean decided today, which may mean actual pushbacks of people coming from safe. third country states. so everyone coming in from poland, from the czech republic, from france, would actually be pushed back by german border control, which obviously would have a huge, huge trickle down effect to all other european countries. and that, i believe, will be, you know, the most interesting story of the next hours to come. it's really , you know, illegal really, you know, illegal immigration crunch time here in germany because today, most likely the administration will decide, is this just a show of force? is it just a symbol or are they really willing to push back all refugees that are

trying to come into germany illegally ? illegally? >> well, the reports sound like they're taking this seriously. i wonder why they're doing this now, though. is this because of recent islamist terror attacks inspired by islamic state, or is this more about the political pressure from the afd? the alternative for deutschland ? alternative for deutschland? >> it's not afd pressure anymore. it's coming from the conservatives. it's coming from within reasonable social democrats. they still exist. it's coming from the liberals that are part of the administration. the only party thatis administration. the only party that is going against it, and that is going against it, and thatis that is going against it, and that is within the administration. so you may even see a breakdown of the german government today. if the greens do not agree to go with, you know , pushbacks on the borders, know, pushbacks on the borders, they are the only ones who are disagreeing with this. the reason why this is happening right now is not only the terrorist attack that you have already mentioned that killed three by an islamist who should have never been in germany, who should have been deported, a while ago. it is the everyday

crime we are witnessing now. there is a new website that is basically mirroring the numbers that we, you know , obsessively that we, you know, obsessively used to look at during the covid years, but that is now not showing new infections, but new knife attacks . it's called the knife attacks. it's called the masca incidence. and the knife incidents. and you see, you know, 1315, 17, 20 knife attacks per day overwhelmingly coming from, from immigrants. and, you know , we have another very know, we have another very important election coming up in a, you know, in a state of germany, brandenburg, the governing spd, social democrats are tanking. they're completely collapsing in numbers there. and they are scared. they are scared. they are really running for their lifeboats. and that's why they are. you know, it seems, deciding to take these extreme measures that for years and this is interesting, have said they would not they would not be legal and they would not be possible. and it would, you know, change europe forever. and now after many people killed many people raped suddenly, you know, they admit it's very

possible. >> this is extraordinary because this also echoes a story that we were covering just a week or so ago about the idea that the german government is now looking at the facilities the united kingdom government built in rwanda to process illegal migrants, couldn't make it up. now, of course, we were told that that was illegal, that that was impossible. and now germany is looking at it again. you say that the social democrats have said that this border control mechanism was illegal and impossible, and now they're doing it fundamentally. what does this say about international law? and what does this say about perhaps the stability of the mechanisms of the european union, of the european court of human rights, of all the rest of it? is it is it weakening? >> i think it is saying two things. the big political questions of our times, of all times, are always about political will. is there a government that has the

political will to basically execute what the popular demand is? and popular demand has been for years now to do something about the border situation again? 300,000 people from mainly islamist countries coming into germany each year. that is just unbearable, would be unbearable for, for, for any country . so the question is country. so the question is just, is there political will? and now this political will seems to materialise because, polling numbers and, you know, are tanking for those in power. the second very important thing i think here is what we've seen over the past decade, and i think the uk has suffered from it. many european countries have suffered from it . is illegal suffered from it. is illegal immigration nationalism here in germany we are the number one pull factor for all illegal immigration coming to europe because of the german welfare state. people are migrating into the german welfare state through other european countries, and those who don't make it, other european countries, and those who don't make it , maybe those who don't make it, maybe then continue to other countries or stay there . and i think the

or stay there. and i think the uk is number two. congrats and, you know, many european countries have warned us that we are doing this to other european countries. so what i think you will see now, if germany actually does something about is actually does something about is a reverse. the other european countries will then start implementing those tough border controls on the sea borders, because they know that migrants will not just go on and continue to germany . so it's important to germany. so it's important that germany takes this role because it cannot be stopped by a greek decision. it can only be stopped by a german decision not to open up the german welfare for state everyone in the world. and as long as we do that, of course, the poor people in greece will say, you know, let them go. let them proceed, they will go to germany anyhow. so if you want to do something about julian, sorry, we're running out of time. >> and i just want to get in one last question, because of course, keir starmer was with olaf scholz and keir starmer was talking about how the progressives have to come

together to fight off the far right. is this the kind of policy coming from germany that he's going to have to stand up against? is this a far right policy ? policy? >> it was deemed a far right policy until, well, i would say like six hours ago. and now it's a social democrat olaf scholz policy. so, you know , the keir policy. so, you know, the keir starmer does not have, you know , starmer does not have, you know, the olaf scholz he met a few days ago, left olaf scholz is a changed man now with a policy he deemed far right only a few days ago . ago. >> situation. what a world. juuan >> situation. what a world. julian reichelt, thank you so much for joining julian reichelt, thank you so much forjoining us and talking much for joining us and talking us through a curious state of affairs in germany. and i wonder, i it does seem so, so interesting that something is impossible until it isn't, isn't it interesting? i mean, the things that are outside the realm of political possibility until they're not. >> when did having a simple border become so controversial or managing your borders? anyway, this is good afternoon britain. we've got lots more coming up on today's show. we're

going to be back outside. not one, but two prisons where convicts are being set free early today. that's after your headunes early today. that's after your headlines with sam francis . headlines with sam francis. >> very good afternoon to you. it is exactly 130 and the top story from the newsroom. well, thousands of prisoners could be placed in taxpayer funded hotels as more than 1700 inmates are walking free today in an effort to cut overcrowding in jails. the justice secretary says probation staff have been authorised to use budget hotels if needed. it's after concerns were raised about re—offending because some inmates are unprepared and could face homelessness . shabana unprepared and could face homelessness. shabana mahmood insists the early release scheme is temporary , giving the is temporary, giving the government time, she says, to reform the prison system. >> if we had not done this, we faced courts unable to hold trials , police unable to make trials, police unable to make arrests and a total breakdown of law and order. this is not the

long term solution. there is more that we must do, but it was the necessary first step that we had to take following the disgraceful dereliction of duty by the previous government, disgraceful dereliction of duty by the previous government , the by the previous government, the foreign secretary and the us secretary of state will travel to kyiv this week , in the first to kyiv this week, in the first joint visit there in over a decade. >> david lammy and antony blinken made that announcement just moments ago after strategic talks in london aimed at boosting the special relationship between the two nations. their discussions also centred on promoting peace in the middle east and on deepening economic and security ties . 31 economic and security ties. 31 people have been charged over last year's cardiff riots, sparked by the deaths of teenagers kyrees sullivan and harvey evans. the two boys died in a crash involving an e—bike after being followed by a police vehicle . 27, facing charges of vehicle. 27, facing charges of riots , while four are charged riots, while four are charged with causing or threatening criminal damage. the defendants aged between 15 and 53, are expected to appear at cardiff

magistrates court in the coming weeks . mps are preparing to vote weeks. mps are preparing to vote on a controversial government plan to remove winter fuel payments for most pensioners. it's being defended by labour as a tough decision to address a £22 billion deficit, and will see around 10 million people lose up to £300 in support. the chancellor, rachel reeves, is arguing the move is necessary to fix public finances after what she calls reckless conservative spending. but the shadow work and pensions secretary, mel stride, told us he thinks labour are picking the pockets of pensioners . pensioners. >> this is a choice. they took a choice when they first came in to give in to their trade union paymasters. when it came to wage settlements, so 22% for the junior doctors, 14% for the train drivers. and so on. and it is entirely wrong that they should be doing those kind of things on the backs of some of the most vulnerable pensioners up and down the country . up and down the country. >> and it wouldn't be a gb news

bulletin without something on the weather or space this time. space for private astronauts have launched into orbit on a spacex rocket kicking off the polaris dawn mission. the five day journey will test new spacesuits and feature the first private spacewalk, with astronauts tethered to the spacecraft in the mission's riskiest manoeuvre. so far, the mission sparks marks a significant step in the private space exploration , taking the space exploration, taking the crew further from earth than anyone since the apollo moon program . those are the latest gb program. those are the latest gb news headlines for now. i'll be back with you in half an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward alerts

>> good afternoon britain. it's

1:37. now the public inquiry into convicted child serial killer nurse lucy letby begins today. >> yes it does. the investigation will look into how letby was able to murder and harm babies at countess of chester hospital, well north—west of england. >> reporter sophie reaper has been at the inquiry at liverpool town hall and joins us now. and sophie, what did we learn today ? sophie, what did we learn today? it seems like we're having a little bit of a problem trying to connect there to sophie. it's a bit windy, doesn't it, in liverpool . look a bit windy. liverpool. look a bit windy. it's been. we're on the 10th of september this time last year. it was glorious sunshine. >> we were told that by meteorologists yesterday, weren't we? john kettley 31 degrees. it was last year. interesting but this lucy letby inquiry. it's interesting. timing isn't it, when there's all these questions from various people about the evidence that was given at the court hearings. et cetera. et cetera. but we'll

come back to sophie reaper when we re—establish that line to find out what has happened in that public inquiry, whether they'll find out how this was allowed to happen. >> well, in other news today, around 2000 prisoners in england and wales are being freed in an attempt to ease the overcrowding crisis . crisis. >> yes, the offenders, all of whom are serving sentences of less than five years, are being released after 40% of their sentence, rather than the usual 50%. it comes as reports that hundreds of victims were unaware that the perpetrators of crimes against them are being freed, all amid warnings that the pubuc all amid warnings that the public are being put at heightened risk. okay, well, let's get more with our national reporter, charlie peters, who is outside hmp wandsworth and our yorkshire and humber reporter anna riley outside hmp hull. charlie, tell us, what's the atmosphere like and who have you met there? who's been released ? met there? who's been released? >> well emily, it's been quite a surreal atmosphere here at hmp wandsworth. we arrived at around 6 am. this morning. it was very

quiet here, but as dawn started to rise we saw party vans arrive , to rise we saw party vans arrive, awaiting to accept those being released under this early released under this early release scheme. it was a celebration for some of those coming out of hmp wandsworth today, and gb news sources are telling us this morning that 100 have now left hmp five wells, which is a category c prison in northamptonshire . we're northamptonshire. we're expecting some 400 prisoners to leave various prisons in london today. we've seen about two dozen come out of hmp wandsworth over the course of today. and earlier i spoke to one of those who had been released on this early release scheme, liam fitzpatrick, who said that he was grateful to the labour leader, sir keir starmer, for bringing in this scheme. >> it's good to be out today. i'm happy to be out and you're grateful to keir starmer for this release scheme? no, keir starmer i am because this release scheme? no, keir starmeri am because i'm this release scheme? no, keir starmer i am because i'm a big laboun starmer i am because i'm a big labour. oh really? yeah out with the old, in with the new. it's been too long. anyway i think .

been too long. anyway i think. yeah everyone's everyone's been happy today i'm sure coming out though isn't it. yeah. there's been a lot of happy people faces in there. yeah yeah yeah. so you're, you're grateful to labour and you're grateful to the 100%. yeah. labour's labour vote. labour all my life. yeah. labour's labour's one. >> well that was some praise from a man leaving hmp wandsworth here he says on charges related to fighting and driving offences. but i've also heard some criticism of this scheme, even from prisoners leaving this prison today. one man pointed to the fact that he'd been let out earlier than anticipated amid considerable concerns about the probation services and the availability of apps approved premises for people moving between prison and free civilian life . there's a free civilian life. there's a lot of concerns from watchdogs and charities that many of the prisoners leaving today amid this early release surge could end up homeless. and this comes as the justice secretary, shabana mahmood, told the commons earlier today that some of the people being released from prison could end up in

taxpayer funded budget hotels. so quite a remarkable situation for the government to be in when they bring in this , this policy they bring in this, this policy to early release prisoners . now, to early release prisoners. now, as you can imagine, there's also been a lot of criticism from victims groups and those involved in supporting victims of crime about who's being released, particularly some concerns around domestic abuse perpetrators being released on concurrent and separate sentences, sneaking through the system in a loophole there. but broadly, this is a day of great concern for the criminal justice system in england and wales, with many prisoners being released early. >> well, thank you , charlie, for >> well, thank you, charlie, for that. we're going to cross straight to the commons now, where the debate on winter fuel payment, he is going to see thousands and millions of pensioners dragged into income tax, spent many of them for the first time. >> we were prepared to stand up and say that we would not do that. and say that we would not do that . but and say that we would not do that. but madam deputy and say that we would not do that . but madam deputy speaker, that. but madam deputy speaker, the party i how could i not give up ? up? >> can i commend the honourable

right hon. gentleman for bringing this forward? and to be fair to his party as well, this is a massive issue for my constituents and across the whole united kingdom, quite simply. what and i say with respect to the labour party on the far side, this does not conform with any of the labour party policies that i know of. the past. i think all the, all my, pensioners who have contacted me say they are concerned simply because, first of all, the threshold is to is too low. the pension credit will take nine weeks to process, even if they get to all of the 20th eligible , 28% eligible people in eligible, 28% eligible people in northern ireland, and also the £400 that government labour government has has approved, which will not come to spring of next year. three reasons why this policy today, this motion today has to be supported . today has to be supported. >> the honourable gentleman is of course, entirely right, as always, and i completely agree with every word that he has just said. so, madam deputy speaker, we are the party of the triple lock. we were the party of the

triple lock. plus we were the party that has raised the state pension by £3,700 since 2010. and we are the party that has seen 200,000 fewer pensioners in absolute poverty since we came to office. that that is now that is now going to go into reverse, so can i. madam deputy speaker , so can i. madam deputy speaker, now rather more gently, rather more quietly make an impassioned plea to those sitting opposite. look to your conscience. these measures , you know, you know, in measures, you know, you know, in your heart. no, i will not give away you know in your heart that these measures are wrong. you know, in your heart that you have the party opposite has broken their promises and that these measures are going to lead to untold hardship for millions of elderly and vulnerable people right up and down this country.

you now have an opportunity to join with us and put a stop to it . it. >> the question is motion number one as on the order paper, and i call dame meg hillier. thank you, madam deputy speaker . you, madam deputy speaker. >> and before i start, i would like to thank the house for putting its confidence in me to chair the treasury select committee for the term of this parliament. >> i am the servant of this house, and i will question without fear or favour those who appear before us, and i look forward to engaging with the new members i have yet to get to know. i should also, before this debate, declare an interest in that. my husband has been in receipt of the winter fuel allowance. but of course, if the vote changes that today, he will no longer receive that. i should add for his own vanity, the lower limit . but the decision we lower limit. but the decision we are asked to make today. madam deputy speaker, is a difficult one, but sadly it is not going

to be the only difficult decision that faces this new labour government. before the last general election, i had the privilege of having chaired the pubuc privilege of having chaired the public accounts committee for this house for the last nine years, and in that role, i saw all of the impacts on the public finances, current, past and future. and when people often i would hear my colleague, the member, the right hon. member for leeds west and pudsey talk about the challenges ahead and the dire consequences. >> i would say. >> i would say. >> and you think it's that bad? i know it's a lot worse . we've i know it's a lot worse. we've heard of the chuckle brothers . i heard of the chuckle brothers. i described us as the misery sisters because when she said it was bad, i say it's going to be worse than that. and that is the reality that the chickens are coming home to roost on the money and the spending of the previous government . so we saw a previous government. so we saw a

number of problems, which i laid out in my last annual report as chair of the public accounts committee . factually accurate, committee. factually accurate, of course, information . the fact of course, information. the fact that the nhs capital budget was raided today pay for day to day expenses, but that the backlog of capital expenditure in the nhs was £10.2 billion in the year ending 2022. >> on that point, i would certainly as i as i served with her on the pack , i warmly her on the pack, i warmly congratulate her on her election as chair of the tsc. >> the house has effectively made a very good choice. the rayleigh and rochford association of voluntary services, who i met with last friday, were genuinely worried about this. in a nutshell, their argument was if people on very modest incomes are now frightened to heat, that could lead to illness by many of those people who then will present themselves to hospital and increase the winter pressures on a&e. so by that method it would be a false economy . the game be a false economy. the game isn't worth the candle. what

does the right hon. lady who i respect say to that well done . respect say to that well done. >> well, i thank the right hon. gentleman who i had the pleasure of serving with on the public accounts committee, and an example of how this house works closely together, because i don't think most people would think we would agree on many issues, but on the public accounts committee, we produced every report in tandem. but he will know that the pressures on the nhs are legion, that many of the nhs are legion, that many of the same people who will be suffering this cut to their income, though we'll come on to some of the measures to ameliorate it in a moment. will also be the same people queuing and waiting for a hospital appointment. and i know too many pensioners who, if they can't afford it, don't get that hip replacement, but that many who are cashing in their savings where they have it in order to pay where they have it in order to pay for a hip replacement so they can have a quality of life thatis they can have a quality of life that is not the nhs that i do not think he or i want to see in this country. and so we need to make choices. and one of those choices that this government is making is to make sure that we pull those waiting lists back. but i could digress into the nhs for a very long time, and if he

will forgive me, i will move on because we look at our schools, estate again, capital funding, the department for education itself. under the last government, asked the treasury for capital funding for schools of £5.3 billion in 2020, it was allocated only £3.1 billion. so there's a big backlog there. if you look at the defence sector again, many examples, but let me just pick a couple. decommissioning nuclear submarines. >> we've been listening to meg hillier, the labour mp and former chair of the public accounts committee, speak in favour of this cut to winter fuel allowances for pensioners. of course, just before her we were listening to mel stride, the conservative shadow work and pensions secretary, joining us now is the conservative member of the former conservative member of parliament, miriam cates. we're going to dip back into the debate as and when there are significant contributions. but miriam, this is a profound moment in the house of commons. >> it really is. and it's, i

don't envy at all my colleagues, former colleagues on the conservative benches, because this is going to be a very difficult debate. >> i also don't envy labour backbenchers who were elected. they thought on promises to pensioners, which now do appear to be being broken . but having to be being broken. but having said that, i do think there's a lot missing from this debate about our ageing population and the fact that our spending on pensioners is completely unaffordable, and that that is the root cause of why we do have these financial black holes. we're not the only western country facing these issues . country facing these issues. >> but what i haven't heard discussed at all is the fact that, there are only 9 million pensioners just a few years ago how. >> now. >> there's 11.7 million now. >> there's11.7 million in 5 years time, i think there'll be 14 million. and of course, pensioners by far use the nhs. the most pensioners are now half the social security budget. this is the fact of an ageing population and the truth is we cannot go on and on funding these age related spending

commitments. but nobody seems to be being honest about that . be being honest about that. >> so, miriam, do you think, do you suspect that quite a lot of conservatives are just jumping on the bandwagon here and using this to beat up the new prime minister when actually, ideologically, they may well be in favour of means testing these types of benefits ? types of benefits? >> i don't want to disparage my former colleagues, but essentially, yes, i think the honest argument is that we can't afford ever increasing rises to the state pension to means tested benefits. >> when you think about the fact that child benefit is now means tested, all sorts of things for families are means tested. why should pensioners, of whom 1 in 3 are millionaires , get this on 3 are millionaires, get this on means tested benefit? now of course , there are arguments course, there are arguments about the cost of means testing. there are arguments about people on the edge between being poor and, you know, people on the cliff edge. i suppose, of where where this will be cut off. of course there are. but that appues course there are. but that applies to every single benefit tax you can think of . so i do tax you can think of. so i do think that we need to have a

much more honest argument and debate about the costs of an ageing society and the fact that we just can't afford these commitments anymore. and if you look at our pension commitments, our public sector pension commitments, all the major economic think tanks say these are completely unfunded. we just don't know where the money is going to come from in 20 or 30 years time. we need to have an honest debate about this. and, you know, credit to rachel reeves. i do think this is something that has to happen. >> of course, it's also one of the reasons we've had sky high immigration in the last few years, because the only way to fund the unfunded pension commitments is to grow the population. >> and we haven't been doing that naturally. so you have to do it artificially, i suppose, is the is the consideration that governments have made. but miriam, this is this is very peculiar. watching this house of commons debate , you've got commons debate, you've got a labour mp there in meg hillier speaking about fiscal responsibility and reducing expenditure. and then you had mark francois and, and mel stride and other conservatives standing up saying that actually

more money should be spent on benefits . i more money should be spent on benefits. i mean, more money should be spent on benefits . i mean, have i entered benefits. i mean, have i entered some sort of alice through the looking glass sort of world here? >> but perhaps swapping sides of the house has meant that they've swapped sides of the debate, i don't know. but again, in making a speech, i mean, again, i have a speech, i mean, again, i have a lot of respect for her. she's a lot of respect for her. she's a very well respected member of the house, but she wasn't honest about the causes of the financial difficulties. one of the major causes of the financial difficulties is the huge amount of money that the government borrowed, and spent dunng government borrowed, and spent during covid that did push up national debt, that pushed up interest rates, that caused huge spike in inflation and that expenditure. the labour party in opposition, called for more and more and more. they wanted longer lockdowns, they wanted longer lockdowns, they wanted longer furlough payments. they wanted more money given out to everybody they could think of, had they had their way, the financial black hole, the interest rates, the inflation would have been much, much w0 i'se. woi'se. >> worse. >> miriam, sorry to interrupt, but may i just pick you up on something you said before because you're arguing that perhaps this benefit should be means tested and that actually

we need to have a debate about this. but how can you argue, how can the labour party reasonably argue that when there's so much money being spent elsewhere? i mean, you've got 8 billion on this gb news idea, you've got 9 billion on these public sector pay billion on these public sector pay rises. they are making a decision to punish pensioners instead of reducing expenditure elsewhere. i mean, the money on climate change, the money on foreign aid, etcetera , etcetera. foreign aid, etcetera, etcetera. >> yeah, i think that's a completely fair point. on their other spending commitments. they are , in my view, wasting money, are, in my view, wasting money, and in all these spending commitments, they're doing things that they didn't even mention in their manifesto just two months ago. and i think that is where the problem lies, that they were not honest about what they were not honest about what they were not honest about what they were going to do. so yes, of course, if you had to pick one group to take money away from and give it to someone else, you wouldn't pick pensioners. i completely concede that. but if you look at this as a standalone measure, laying the groundwork for the fact that we can't afford these commitments anymore, these age related commitments, then i do think it's a valid measure in and of

its own right. but yes, you're absolutely right. if the choice was, increase train driver salaries for no increase in productivity or cut pension, pensioners fuel allowance, then of course you wouldn't choose what the labour party had chosen. but i think in a standalone measure, if you are looking to save money, i do think that's a valid choice. >> this is, of course, a fascinating, sort of alliance network that we're seeing build up here, earlier today, the conservative, the parliamentary conservative party staged a protest just outside parliament. on college green that was attended by green party mps and reform mps. i think some of the dup were there as well. it seems that it's sort of everyone against keir starmer and rachel reeves at this moment in time. but of course they've got a massive, massive majority. i mean, what the country thinks potentially for the next five years doesn't really matter . years doesn't really matter. >> well, potentially that's true. and i think if starmer and

reeves hold their nerve, they will have a very, very strong mandate for the next five years. and of course, what went wrong, if you like, from a political point of view in the last conservative government, is that far too often the government did concede so, particularly boris johnson did give in to political pressure from backbenchers. now, you could argue that's brilliant. that's how parliament should work. or you could argue that that means that the manifesto won't be delivered and it just looks like the prime minister's weak. now, if starmer and reeves hold on, if they don't concede at all, if they do, knock 30 mps out of the whip or something like that, whatever they feel that they have to do, then i think they will have an iron grip for the next five years. perhaps they're learning the lessons of boris johnson. >> goodness me. that's a really interesting thing to say , interesting thing to say, because there will be many people who think that actually, really irritating the powerful group that pensioners are . the group that pensioners are. the grey vote, if you like, might weaken this government. but but

you're saying that actually if theyif you're saying that actually if they if they stick to what they're saying now, even though it wasn't in the manifesto, even though no one voted for it, it could strengthen, keir starmer's hand, i suppose it might through discipline. but this this could be a strong government for five years, but no longer if then they're booted out at the next election . election. >> absolutely. and certainly that will be the backbenchers concerns, you know, especially those fighting marginal seats, is that if these measures do go through , if they prove to be through, if they prove to be unpopular, if there are more measures where these came from, then they will be very, very worried about their seats. and so, of course, they will be putting pressure on the prime minister. but what i'm saying is, if he wants to avoid having this kind of fight, every single time he introduces a new policy that maybe not popular with the public, then showing an iron level of discipline. now, i'm not saying that's right or wrong. i'm just saying that if he does do that, it will tighten his grip on power. but you see, this is the problem with with

politics in a democracy is that you have this election every five years and you find out who wins and you know, whether or not you have the majority of the popular vote. he has now a majority in parliament. but then you also particular in a particularly in a mass media age, constantly listening to what polls say to what said on twitter, to what the media says. and governments are becoming increasingly sensitive and nervous when they do something unpopular about what it will mean. but how are we going to solve these age related problems? how are we going to solve big issues that involve costly, short term policies? if every time people react and say, oh no, we don't like that, oh no, you can't offend that group of voters, we are never going to make any progress. and we are just going to stagnate. and i'm afraid that is what happened over the last five years. >> i think you might well be right there that sir keir starmer will be good at managing those closest to him will be good at, i guess preventing too much disagreement outwardly. anyway, to the public, he's shown that in the way he

restored control over the party following jeremy corbyn. perhaps he will have a cast iron grip over dissenters. >> goodness me. a sort of stalinist presence over parliament. >> potentially. again, i'm not saying whether it's a good or bad thing. there are different styles of leadership, and my preference would be to have these policy debates in public. i think it's a mistake when parties say that anyone who disagrees with a particular policy is disloyal and should lose the whip, i think the pubuc lose the whip, i think the public want us to see us having these debates, and i think it should be much more about policy and politics and not personalities. but obviously different leaders have different styles. and i imagine starmer will have looked at the shambles of some of the leadership of the last five years and thought, i don't want to go down that route by the end of the last parliament. although on paper the conservatives had a majority of 60 or so, the reality was that they could the government could not win any controversial vote because people didn't agree about the policy. and that's what he's trying to avoid, for good or ill. >> well, thank you very much indeed. miriam cates former

conservative mp. thank you for talking us through everything that's going on in the house of commons. should we dip back in to have a listen to what's being said? >> now let's listen to sir edward lynn. >> and this surely is a question of public trust. darren jones , of public trust. darren jones, an absolute guarantee . and this an absolute guarantee. and this is why i think people are so upset. now i know that some people will say and here i declare an interest. why should somebody like me receive the winter fuel allowance? all right , winter fuel allowance? all right, all right, let's have a serious debate about that. but what about the people and this is the sort of people that i feel so strongly about who have worked hard all their life to serve the country. they've served their country. they've served their country . they receive a very country. they receive a very small occupational pension. they don't receive pension credit . don't receive pension credit. they are looking after every penny. and suddenly, because they don't receive pension credit and can't receive pension credit and can't receive pension credit because they have a very small occupational pension, their winter fuel allowance is

taken away and this will make a real difference to them. so i think that we've really got to consider them and have a serious debate about how we are going to protect these people. and if i may make one suggestion to the government, and this was alluded to by the honourable member who's just spoken, there should have been some serious debate about tapering or anything else. no, i tell you what this is all about. this is about a punishment beating the new labour government decided a punishment . labour government decided a punishment. beating the new labour government decided they had to make their case to the public. finances were in a dire state. there was this 22. hang on. there was this 22 billion black hole. he spent it. >> he spent it. >> he spent it. >> we spend we spend £1,200 billion every year. this 22 billion every year. this 22 billion so—called black hole is a mere accounting device. and this whole debate, what the

labour government are now trying to do is to make the political point that the conservative party ran the country into the ground, and therefore we've got to punish the pensioners. it's absolute and complete rubbish . absolute and complete rubbish. yeah. and what those we represent can't understand these people who've worked hard all their life, who've done their bit for the country, who their total package is perhaps 13 or £14,000 a year. they what they can't understand is that this so—called saving of public money is actually going to go to the train drivers who earn £70,000 a yeah train drivers who earn £70,000 a year. they just don't understand it . 9 million. so for god's it. 9 million. so for god's sake, let's have a serious debate. let's try and unite on this issue and let's let's not keep taking away benefits from people just above the pension credit limit. and of course, there are many pensioners who are entitled to pension credit

for all sorts of reasons , will for all sorts of reasons, will never claim it. they are suffering and so they will be even worse off. and there's another point to be made is i know the government will argue that the total package will be worth more after the increase in the triple lock next year . but the triple lock next year. but actually, if you are a pensioner who has drawn your pension before 2016, by the time you've had this cut, you will probably be even worse off the first cut in the state pension for years. this is not acceptable. this is not the right way to go about things. we should unite around a sensible package that rewards pensioners for their hard work, but does not just indulge in a political gesture and thank you, madam deputy speaker. >> i recognise the serious economic context for the debate today. >> the ifs for example, has

estimated that 320,000 people have been pushed into poverty because of mortgage interest rate rises triggered by the disastrous autumn 2022 mini—budget, and of course, there were many unfunded policies that the then prime minister made. so while i recognise the policy measures in the king's speech will go a long way to reduce household costs and increase incomes in the medium term , tackling the medium term, tackling the appalling poverty that we're seeing, they will not come in time for this winter. >> i'm proud that labour continue with the triple lock on pensions, something that will be worth an estimated £460, an extra £460. >> but this won't happen until next spring. the setting up of a new energy production company, great british energy, again, alongside making homes more efficient, is a fantastic initiative, but and it will contribute to our net zero targets and reduce the energy energy bills for millions. but

again, this won't be in time to offset the 10% increase in energy bills. this winter. i support our focus about growing our economy, but again, this will not happen overnight. the joseph rowntree foundation estimated in their report earlier this year that there are 2 million pensioners living in poverty, about 1 in 6 of all pensioners in areas like my oldham constituency, poverty rates are much higher. we have 1 in 2 children living in poverty and from the figures we estimate that that will also be the same for pensioners. we know that 4 in 10 older people in oldham east and saddleworth have a disability, and almost half have a long term health condition. we also know that even before the escalation of energy costs, over 1 in 6 households were living in fuel poverty . although pension fuel poverty. although pension credit provides extra financial support for the poorest pensioners, pensioners and opens up help such as housing benefit and council tax discounts for

those who are eligible for it. only 5500 of the 8000 out of the 9000 households in oldham are eligible for claiming to claim it . again, i welcome the it. again, i welcome the automatic linking of pension credit to housing benefit to increase the uptake, but this again won't happen in time for the next in the next few months . the next in the next few months. and what about i'm not going, we're just going to dip into debbie abrahams, the labour mp, giving a speech which she appears to be mainly reading from sheets of paper. >> that ticks you off, doesn't it? >> it really irritates me. backbench members of parliament should speak from their heart , should speak from their heart, not from a4. pieces of paper. i mean, did we see sir edward leigh speaking from pieces of paper ? did we see any of the paper? did we see any of the interventions, people speaking from from pieces of paper? do we see jim shannon speaking from pieces of paper? no. if you know what you're going to say, if you believe what you're going to

say, you should say it without reading word for word, like some sort of inept primary school child . child. >> well, there you go. it used to be banned, didn't it? >> it did. and it used to be so. so banned that if someone started reading something from a piece of paper as recently as the 90s, it's all changed. it all changed under blair. but, but but when a member of parliament would start reading something from a paper, all of the colleagues around him would shout, reading , reading, get out! >> and it's not. >> and it's not. >> it's not acceptable. but now it's become acceptable. >> it has become acceptable. i guess that's a loss in standards that will never be able to return to probably our politicians dumbing down. so dumbing down, it's just it's just a lower grade. >> yeah. compared to i mean i'd understand if you're talking about something very, very complicated like an eu regulation or something like this that you have to get. >> absolutely. but even then, even then, anyway, shall we speak? we'll keep an eye on what's going on in parliament because it does at times get a very interesting indeed. >> but the next person to not read their speech from a piece

of paper. >> all right, anyway, joining us now is rebecca o'connor, who is the pensions doctor at the telegraph. sorry you had to listen to tom's little rant there, but he does raise a good point, i think sometimes, rebecca, tell us, how is this, playing out with pensioners? firstly, this decision to cut these winter fuel payments and how many are going to be affected ? affected? >> well, it's playing out quite badly. i think we tend to think of pensioners as this homogenous group and they really are not they're they are people of very different income levels with different income levels with different state pension entitlements. there's the basic state pension and the new state pension. and of course , not pension. and of course, not everyone gets the full amount of both either . there are both either. there are pensioners who rely on just the state pension for their income, or maybe just pension credit, which is a benefit that is designed to top up people who are entitled to their on low incomes, and it tops them up to something that's more liveable, and then there are those who

have workplace pensions on top of their state pension entitlements . so it's a very, entitlements. so it's a very, very disparate group who will be very disparate group who will be very differently affected by the cuts to the winter fuel allowance payments. so it is hugely controversial and very difficult for those poorer pensioners who may be not entitled to pension credit because they do have, some state pension income and maybe a small amount of private pension income. but they are still in hard times and they're finding, you know , managing the basic you know, managing the basic bills difficult. the cut will affect them very badly. and you know, we don't we don't know exactly how many there are of those pensioners. we know how many people will continue to receive the winter fuel payments, though. and there's currently about 1.1 million people in receipt of pension credit and a further 880,000 who are probably eligible but are not yet claiming. and we know actually, since the announcement, more people have

been claiming pension credit or getting those applications in because they recognise that they are they are going to need that money and that has spurred them on to claim the credit. >> and rebecca, this could be the real false economy of this. cut to winter fuel payments because if that 800 or so, 880, perhaps 1000 people entitled to pension credit now choose to claim it, that will actually cost more. if i if i do correct me if i'm wrong than the cost of winter fuel payments . winter fuel payments. >> so pension credit tops up somebody's weekly income to just over £200, which is clearly less than the full amount of the new state pension. if they're not already claiming it, then yes, you're right. you know there is going to be a cost to the government of that. so, you know, perhaps they're banking on people, you know, not going ahead and claiming the pension credit or, or claiming it and then finding that they're not actually eligible for other reasons because it's a benefit andifs reasons because it's a benefit and it's a means tested. so perhaps many people will try and

then fail to claim the credit. but the point is, the winter fuel payment cuts are very, very blunt instrument, as some mps have raised today, and they will create hardship, unnecessary hardship for a group of people who will neither, you know, be eligible for them but are still struggling on the pension income that they do have. so it doesn't seem that the nuances of pensioner incomes and who is poor and who isn't poor in retirement have really been considered with this, with this allowance cut. >> yes. and i think most people do understand that the public finances are in a bit of a state and that there is a need to at least try and balance the books. but when taxpayers see money being squandered here, there and everywhere, they do wonder why this has been chosen as a cut. thank you very much indeed. rebecca o'connor pensions doctor at the telegraph. really great to get you. you on about all of this? >> yes. well, we're going to cross now to our political edhon cross now to our political editor, christopher hope. live from the train from brighton to

london. christopher of course, you've been down at the tuc congress , but we've been congress, but we've been listening in to some of the debates in parliament, over the last few minutes. and, it is a passionate debate . people are passionate debate. people are speaking with real passion tonbridge change here. >> we have got a four minute. >> we have got a four minute. >> oh, we're trying to get our audio connection there to the train, it seems to be a relatively slow moving train, but perhaps a train of limited signal. but of course, it is a passionate debate here in the house of commons because, it's interesting to see how this is a first test and it's not an external test. it's a self—imposed test. >> perhaps government. absolutely. and let's bear in mind that mps will be being lobbied very hard indeed. their mailbags will be full. but, christopher, hope we can regain your connection on the train from brighton to westminster. christopher, take it away . christopher, take it away. >> emily. tom. that's right. i'm arriving shortly in westminster.

i'll be straight to parliament to report on this key vote at 3 pm. today we're looking at how many labour mps might withdraw, support or withhold withhold support or withhold withhold support from the government's plans to axe this winter fuel payment. the reason why there's a debate today is this comes into force on september the 16th. so today, to be fair to the government, is a last chance for a vote of mps. there's no need to have it. so they are doing it because they're trying to do right by their own mps. but it will be a very difficult time. i think, for this government. so far we've heard from mel stride, who's a shadow work and pensions secretary, who's also running for leader and he said to labour mps, look to your conscience. he said from the despatch box, he says that you know in your heart you have the party, that this party has broken its promises. you have the opportunity to join us and put it right, we heard similar join us and the opportunity to join us and put it right, we heard similar remarks in the tuc conference in remarks in the tuc conference in brighton, where i've just been brighton, where i've just been we've heard there from sharon we've heard there from sharon hodgson . she's the leader of the hodgson . she's the leader of the hodgson. she's the leader of the unite union, dave ward, the hodgson. she's the leader of the unite union, dave ward, the leader of the post office leader of the post office workers union. lots of people workers union. lots of people

down there are saying you've got to get on with it and not go ahead with this. cut to sir keir starmer. but for keir starmer andindeed starmer. but for keir starmer and indeed rachel reeves last night at the meeting of backbench labour mps, they are saying we can't do anything. we must go ahead with this cut. but tom, as you said there, this cut will save 1.3 billion this year. 1.5 billion next year. but if everyone signs up, who can sign up for pension credit, it will wipe out the savings altogether . wipe out the savings altogether. so for many people, this is a cut that they are doing to show the obr to show bond markets. this labour government will take tough decisions in the interests of the economy, but many pensioners watching gb news today are deeply upset with this cut coming in november. >> it is extraordinary, given the choices that the government could create any energy.

won't even create any energy. and of course the clamping down on north sea oil and gas that's going to cost a lot in terms of tax receipts. there is so many things that the government is willing to spend money on. it's very interesting that they've chosen pensioners as the ones to clamp down on. >> yes, entirely. and i wonder whether this may be an albatross that goes around the necks of this government through the five years. we think back, don't we? to the lib dems when they, they hiked, tuition fees in 2012. and if you ask anybody now what what are the lib dems do in government. they mention to you tuition fees. it's dogging them. 12 years later, and i wonder whether pensioners just won't forget this. the problem is this is 10 million people can vote and they're losing this money. and of course, we're still waiting for the promise to be delivered on. you mentioned gb energy there, didn't you, emily? well, that's £300 off bills by the end of the decade. pensioners losing £300 in november and going forward every

year. november and going forward every year . so it's november and going forward every year. so it's a very, very difficult position to be in again , the labour government, again, the labour government, sir keir starmer told quite a hushed tuc conference earlier where i was that they have to make tough choices. and he warned, actually looking forward , warned, actually looking forward, they can't be as generous on pay as they have been saying that the hand dealt them, dealt them by this tory government . they by this tory government. they claim that the £22 billion black hole means they can't afford big pay hole means they can't afford big pay rises. >> no, it's so interesting. you mentioned that that totemic tuition fee vote, just as the lib dems wendy chamberlain is speaking and sort of matching it on the screen there. but of course there will be a victory for the government today at 3:00. we know that. we know the scale of the labour majority in the house of commons. what are the house of commons. what are the actual things to look out for in this vote in 45 minutes time? >> well, i'm expecting maybe two dozen or so labour mps to withdraw support. >> maybe 2 or 3 might rebel. and

it's how those are treated. they will almost certainly lose the whip. we saw that happen with a vote before the summer break, didn't we? with those six labour mps who lost the whip in a in a different vote, i think that will happen again, but the fights they're taking on here are difficult. i think there was no ground laid that we heard yesterday from rachel reeves spokesman. he made very clear that they were not planning to do this cut. they only could do it when they saw the books and how bad they were. the tories say there was no guarantee to keep the winter fuel allowance in the 2024 manifesto, and there had been in previous manifestos. so they smell a rat that is strongly denied, categorically denied by rachel reeves. people so it's a test again for this government. they have not got the kind of the bounty which is given to the previous labour government in 97 by the tory chancellor, ken clarke. i think thatis chancellor, ken clarke. i think that is part of the problem, but as things stand, it should pass off. but this is causing more problems down the line for this government, i expect. >> well, thank you very much indeed. >> well, thank you very much indeed . christopher hope's safe indeed. christopher hope's safe journey from brighton to

westminster. we'll catch up with you later, no doubt. there's been quite a lot of reaction in the inbox to your little outburst earlier of people reading, yes, yeah, tom doesn't like it when people read from their note cards. >> quality of politicians has declined markedly in the last 25 years. completely. >> yes . someone here, i've lost >> yes. someone here, i've lost it. yeah. martin says you're a bit unpleasant for this. some people get very nervous about pubuc people get very nervous about public speaking. it doesn't make them a bad mp. >> if you get nervous about pubuc >> if you get nervous about public speaking, why on earth are you standing for parliament? i don't what why why would you put yourself in front of hustings and everything about being an mp is being a confident speaken being an mp is being a confident speaker. if you're not a confident speaker, don't be an mp. there are lots of otherjobs for you. >> okay, well jeff agrees. he says, well, said tom for that comment on labour mps reading from sheets of paper, it's time to stop mps second home heating allowance. they don't really need it. okay, so shove two arguments in there. so there you go . sounds like a yes. anyone on go. sounds like a yes. anyone on top of their briefs should be able to contest or argue without notes. it's terrible to see this regarding such a contentious issue. some people are saying how sure of your argument can

you be if you need the notes? so there you go. you sparked a debate there? >> no, i think so. but perhaps i want to clarify a little bit. i think, oh, here we go. i think the occasional note card is okay, you know, like so a fact a fact or yeah, a bullet point, date. >> it's when they have an a4 sheet of paper and they read word for word and hold it up against their little face and say, why are you why are you politician? >> why do you think this is the this is the career for me? if you can't speak in public, that's your job. >> yeah. you're probably right. you're probably right. i mean the odd allowance maybe, i don't know . no, no, no. anyway keep know. no, no, no. anyway keep your views coming in on that. and of course this debate over the winter fuel payments to. but coming up next prisoners. yes. prisoners are being released early today after serving only 40% of their we' re we're going to be hearing from convicts fresh out of jail. they're rather happy about it

>> good afternoon britain. it is 2:22 now. around 2000 prisoners in england and wales are being freed today in an attempt to ease the overcrowding crisis. >> yes. so the offenders, all of whom are serving sentences of less than five years, are being released today after 40% of their sentence, rather than the usual 50. >> well, it comes with reports that hundreds of victims were made unaware that perpetrators of crimes against them are being freed, all amid warnings that the public are being put at heightened risk today. >> yes. so you've got commissioners to deal with domestic abuse essentially coming out to say that people who've been victims of domestic abuse are having sleepless nights as a result of this, and there have been at least two cases, i believe, of men who are being released under this scheme who have committed pretty

vicious domestic abuse crimes. and we were told that no, no, violent offenders would be released. but there you go. anyway, let's get more with our national reporter, charlie peters, who's outside hmp wandsworth and our yorkshire and humber reporter, anna riley outside hmp hull. anna, we'll start with you. have you been speaking to some of the people who have been let out early ? who have been let out early? >> yes we have. it's mainly this morning that we've seen prisoners released. i'd say around ten came out of here. hmp hull. it's a category b prison. it means it houses people who are on shorter sentences. but also people that are waiting to be sentenced , prisoners that are be sentenced, prisoners that are here on remand and also prisoners that have been waiting to be transferred to other categories of prisons. category b prisons are notoriously overcrowded, including hmp hull. it's got a capacity for 1044 prisoners, but there's lots of

reports. the most recent report that came out showing that it's overcrowded with prisoners sharing a room for two for two people, that's actually meant for one person, and also reports of rats in this victorian prison and of course, this early release scheme that's been brought in today with the release of around 1750 prisoners today is all to ease that overcrowding in prisons . we've overcrowding in prisons. we've seen from reports in the last week that the prisoner numbers are up within a week by 1025, and that numbers have been steadily rising since september 2011. and we've got the highest number of prisoners in prisons at the moment. and just not enough space to house them. so that's why this scheme has been brought in by the government. but as you mentioned earlier, it's brought a lot of, upset for victims who may not have been told that prisoners are going to be released. i spoke to andrew earlier. he's a prisoner who was

released a few months early from his sentence . andrew mason. he his sentence. andrew mason. he broke his bail conditions and that's why he was brought back to prison. this is what he told us about the early release and what would you say to victims who are saying, you know , who are saying, you know, prisoners need to serve their time. they shouldn't be coming out early, depending on what their crime crime is, >> it depends on what they've what they're for . in what they're for. in >> and how does it feel to you now sort of having to go back into society? have you got a plan? yeah >> keeps up myself and, just ignore people . ignore people. >> and how long were you in for, >> and how long were you in for, >> a year and one month. >> a year and one month. >> and how long were you meant to be in for, >> i was meant to be until, this november . november. >> so that was the view from andrew mason. they're released a few months early from his

sentence. and of course, there's going to be pressure put on rehabilitation services for prisoners. i spoke to another prisoners. i spoke to another prisoner earlier. he was in for assault. released early from his sentence. he said that he didn't feel there had been enough rehabilitation in prison before his release. and of course, this is going to put a strain on probation services as well for up to 12 weeks after prisoners are released. probation need to help them, finding new accommodation, getting them signed up for gp's and continued medical care, as well as finding them new jobs and roles in society. >> well anna, thank you very much for bringing us that from , much for bringing us that from, yorkshire. and let's go now to charlie peters outside hmp wandsworth . wandsworth. >> hi, tom. well, yes , there has >> hi, tom. well, yes, there has been a slow trickle of a few dozen prisoners being released today from hmp wandsworth. by any metric, this category b prison is one of the worst in

the country. it cells are squalid, they're dirty, they're cramped and they're also crumbling. this prison, built in 1851. most of those cells built for single occupancy. but this prison, with its population over 1500, has several prisoners stacked up in single occupancy rooms . now, with people being rooms. now, with people being let out from those conditions, it might not surprise you that there was something of a party atmosphere outside this morning. as friends of people being released from the prison gathered to celebrate the upcoming release of their friends and associates. a couple of those i spoke to outside said they had formerly been in hmp wandsworth themselves . they wandsworth themselves. they showed me footage of the scenes inside . they showed me mobile inside. they showed me mobile phones, drug taking, which is rife in this prison and indeed across the prisons estate. some people coming out of prison, though, were not delighted. they pointed to the probation service under enormous pressure. there's a shortage of about 2000 probation officers, many

prisoners do not end up in settled accommodation within three months of release. but those people who gathered outside, well, they were popping champagne bottles when their friend daniel was released a few hours later, a scene of great celebration as he was released, they recognised a couple of their friends who had come out earlier, shared some cigarettes and some spliffs and a few dnnks and some spliffs and a few drinks with them while the police watched on down the road. but that's been the story here at hmp wandsworth. a steady release of some prisoners for a variety of offences. some had breached their bail conditions. one man said he was being released early, having been in for driving and fighting offences. he said that he was grateful to sir keir starmer and the labour government for bringing in this scheme, and it comes as the prison population in england and wales hits a record high 88,521. it's an intolerable situation, but after today, with some people

receiving their early release, it will be reduced and that overcrowding burden will be lessened very much indeed. >> charlie peters and also to anna riley outside hmp hull and charlie outside hmp wandsworth there. interesting to see the celebrations outside. i mean i mean i suppose it makes sense if you're freed early. >> i mean you think you're going to be in there for years and you're in there for months or you're in there for months or you think you're going to be in there for 50%, you're in there for 40%. of course you'd celebrate. >> i mean, the question of where they're going to go, whether they're going to go, whether they're going to reoffend, whether there's going to be any help and support at all, whether they're going to find accommodation. and that's a big question. big question. do we have the resources anyway, coming up on today's show, we still have the latest from the comments where the winter fuel debate is very much underway. lots of impassioned speeches. but first,

>>a >> a very good afternoon from the gb newsroom. tom and emily, up next. first, though, a look at the headlines this hour and thousands of prisoners could be placed in taxpayer funded hotels as more than 1700 inmates walk free today in an effort by the government to cut overcrowding in jails. the justice secretary says probation staff have been authorised to use budget hotels if needed, after concerns were raised about re—offending because some inmates are unprepared and face homelessness. shabana mahmood insists the early release scheme, though, is temporary , scheme, though, is temporary, giving the government time to reform the prison system . reform the prison system. >> if we had not done this, we faced courts unable to hold trials, police unable to make arrests and a total breakdown of law and order. this is not the long term solution . there is long term solution. there is more that we must do, but it was the necessary first step that we had to take following the disgraceful dereliction of duty by the previous government . by the previous government. >> well, mps are clashing in the commons over labour's plans to

slash winter fuel payments for most pensioners, with keir starmer standing firm ahead of today's vote. the prime minister is currently defending that cut, calling it a tough decision needed to tackle £22 billion deficit. but critics, including some labour mps, are warning it could force millions of pensioners to choose between heating and eating this winter. despite that backlash, the government insists those cuts are necessary to secure the foundations of the economy. 31 people have been charged over last year's cardiff riots, sparked by the deaths of teenagers. kyrees sullivan and harvey evans. the two boys sadly died in a crash involving an e—bike after being followed by a police vehicle. 27 of those facing charges are facing charges for rioting, while four are charged with causing or threatening criminal damage. the defendants, aged between 15 and 53, are expected to appear at cardiff magistrates court in the coming weeks. cardiff magistrates court in the coming weeks . america's top coming weeks. america's top diplomat has confirmed that iran

has sent short range ballistic missiles to russia, and predicts they'll be used in ukraine within weeks. antony blinken gave that warning after strategic talks with the foreign secretary in london this afternoon, aimed at boosting the special relationship between the two nations. speaking alongside david lammy , blinken described david lammy, blinken described the development as a threat to all of europe and lammy echoed his concerns, calling the missile supply by russia by iran rather a significant escalation and announced a joint trip to ukraine with blinken later this week . and with just eight weeks week. and with just eight weeks to go before the us election, republican candidate donald trump and the vice president, kamala harris are set to face off in their first debate tonight . off in their first debate tonight. both candidates are neck and neck in key battleground states, but the debate could be critical for harris as polls suggest many voters still don't know much about her. trump's team is urging him to focus on immigration and inflation, while harris is expected to attack the former president's record on abortion and the capitol riots.

well, you can watch all the action live overnight here on gb. news in america decides trump v harris with tom harwood starting at 2 am. those are the latest gb news headlines for now . latest gb news headlines for now. sophia wenzler will have your next update at the top of the hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> well, there's plenty more coming up on today's show , coming up on today's show, including germany cracking down on migration , imposing stricter on migration, imposing stricter border controls. but before that, martin daubney is up at 3:00. martin, what have you got coming up for us then? >> well, of course, all eyes are on the big vote on the winter fuel tax , and the kurds will

fuel tax, and the kurds will have the full reaction to that. >> will be in the chamber. will be grabbing mps as they go past, including lee anderson, who told me this morning 86% of pensioners in his constituency are set to lose their winter fuel allowance. there will be a huge inequality of how this affects different constituencies. i'll also be joined by a gentleman who's in charge of a grassroots movement called the pensioner vote. he's publishing a list of shame of all mps who vote in favour of this cut to encourage shapps old age protesters to take to the streets to make sure their mps understand how angry they are. there's an illegal immigration debate also taking place in parliament. nigel farage speaking at that. and if we've forgotten about the conservatives well, at 5:00 we'll find out who the final four are in their leadership race. does it matter ? does race. does it matter? does anybody care? well, we could certainly do with a decent opposition at the moment. all that coming 3 to 6. >> and a lot happening that vote of course at 3:00.

>> what a way to start your show. >> what a way to start your show. >> yes, indeed. thanks, martin. speak to you later. great. see you later . speak to you later. great. see you later. we're having that thing where we're talking over each other because of the delay. anyway, in other news, over in germany, they've denounced announced plans to impose tougher controls at all of their land borders in a mass crackdown on what they're calling irregular migration. >> well, the new regulations are due to start next monday, and they're in place for an initial six months. after that time, they're reviewed. >> yes. and in recent times, the islamic state group did claim responsibility for a knife attack in the western city of soungen attack in the western city of solingen that killed three people just last month. >> well, delighted to be joined now by the uk correspondent for desert young , jochen bittner. desert young, jochen bittner. thank you so much for joining desert young, jochen bittner. thank you so much forjoining us this afternoon. a lot of people will be thinking, goodness me , will be thinking, goodness me, border controls inside the eu free movement, schengen zone . i free movement, schengen zone. i mean, how does that work ? mean, how does that work? >> well, yeah, it is as you said, a crackdown.

>> so the german government are trying to get tough on immigration. >> but the problem, of course, is if you start these border controls, if you start rejecting people to other countries, how will they react? i mean, austria are is the country that will be most affected by germany rejecting migrants over to the border because, you know, it is located on the route from the balkans to germany. and austria has already said that it isn't happy with this decision, austria has elections coming up next month and the right wing populist party are leading in the polls. so i've i've no idea actually how this will play out in practice. but what the german government is trying to do, at least, is to try to react in some way to, as you mentioned, the murders and stabbing that we have seen over the summer in germany. it has been, if you will, a summer of discontent,

soungen will, a summer of discontent, solingen the murders that you mentioned, they were only part of a series of stabbings and murders committed partly by isis members . so, the german members. so, the german government very much feels that it needs to do something now, or at least signal that it's trying to do something. >> yes , there's a huge amount of >> yes, there's a huge amount of anger over in germany. of course, there is as a result of these, this series of terror attacks or suspected terror attacks, if the eu isn't protecting the external border, then might we actually see other countries like austria adopt the same measures as germany and all of the countries try and strengthen their national borders ? borders? >> yeah. look, this could be this could be part of the calculation. actually, you know, you have to know that the german opposition, the conservative party, they have been pushing, the, the left centre government in germany, to adopt some changes and what they actually hope for is a kind of domino

effect. so if germany starts rejecting migrants, austria should start rejecting migrants. next, next county up in the line could be italy starting to reject migrants, but the big hopeis reject migrants, but the big hope is that you have to do it only for a limited time. and then news will spread that it isn't so easy any longer to enter europe. but but of course. >> olaf. >> olaf. >> olaf. >> olaf scholz was saying not that long ago that this would be illegal under schengen rules, under the eu's rule book , you under the eu's rule book, you can't impose barriers between different countries. it's all one free movement zone. he appears to have really pretty drastically changed his mind, performed a pretty spectacular u—turn on that. but also there's the issue that he might run up against what the eu commission have to say about this. >> yeah, that's that's one big question , concerning the legal

question, concerning the legal question, concerning the legal question as to whether this is legal or not. i mean, if you ask two lawyers, you will get three opinions on this, but the, you know, take the broader picture, the entire idea of the schengen area was that if you manage to control the outer european border, that is actually the precondition for opening up borders within europe. now the protection of the outer borders has not been working for some time. and thus there is no real justification to keep the borders open within europe. and this problem, this problem needs to be fixed. you can only have open borders in europe if the european borders themselves are being protected. and this is what the government in germany hopes for over the course of the next six months. you know that european, border police, frontex will be strengthened, that we will be strengthened, that we will see regime change in a way there, this is all very hopeful, i would say. i think we might

even be in for some some broader changes here. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> it's almost as if the establishment or the politicians in charge just hoped for the best when it came to border control, that there wouldn't be these massive issues. i remember when angela merkel, back in 2010, it was talked about how multiculti is taught, if that's the correct word in germany. and then, of course , you had huge then, of course, you had huge amounts of migration and there was a sort of closed eye attitude to any of the potential issues that might come about after that. now, keir starmer was with olaf scholz. i want to get your view on this. he was talking about how progressives in europe need to unite, including olaf scholz, in terms of, attacking the far right and pushing them out of any, any type of power. i mean , would type of power. i mean, would keir starmer consider what the germans are now doing when it comes to tightening border controls? as far right, >> you would have to ask this question keir starmer directly, but what i can tell you is i think that in order to fight

right wing populists, you have to tackle real life problems. and, i think what we've seen over the summer has been the straw that broke the camel's back, in a way, because the german public just won't have it any longer. they won't tolerate, statements that say it is just not possible to control the borders. and, you know, looking back, even further, i think what you need to understand about the german situation is that 30 years ago, actually, there was a change to the german constitution that many, many germans and actually have forgotten about as well. and this change said that if you enter germany from a neighbouring country , from neighbouring country, from a european country, you are not you are not entitled to claim asylum because obviously you came from a safe third country. now this provision was the result of a huge debate, a

heated debate, including all major parties 30 years ago. and what has happened in 2015 was that this consensus was, was was washed away by by a crisis, by millions of refugees, particularly from syria , particularly from syria, flooding into germany. now. so we have a situation still. we have had it for almost ten years now where this basic provision of the german constitution , of the german constitution, wasn't upheld. and we have to find a big new solution to this problem . of course, germany problem. of course, germany always said, look, we don't want to, to push, to push refugees away. we have to distribute them within europe. and that was the dubun within europe. and that was the dublin system . now, this dublin dublin system. now, this dublin system broke down as well. so we have a completely dysfunctional legal system at the moment. and this needs a big reform, believe. >> absolutely fascinating. and a lot of the issues are you know, similar to what we're experiencing here. of course.

thank you very much indeed. jochen bittner, uk correspondent for zeit . thank you very much for zeit. thank you very much for zeit. thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. now, some breaking news. coroner jason pegg has news. coronerjason pegg has said at a winchester inquest inquest there is no causal link between the appearance of steve dymond on the jeremy kyle show and his death. >> okay, well, ruling out steve dymond's treatment by the jeremy kyle show as a contributory factor to his death, hampshire coronerjason pegg said there is insufficient evidence for me to be satisfied that this was the direct cause of steve's death. >> of course, this was the story that blew up in the media really , that blew up in the media really, the person who appeared on a jeremy kyle programme which was never aired. it was recorded and later committed suicide. a huge, huge story over the course of the last couple of weeks. but just to repeat, the coroner , just to repeat, the coroner, jason pegg, has said at a winchester inquest that there is no causal link between the

appearance of steve dymond on the jeremy kyle show and his death. >> yes, very interesting indeed. so he said there's insufficient evidence essentially, so he can't be satisfied that jeremy kyle show was the direct cause of steve's death. we'll bring you more if we get it. now, this is good afternoon, britain on gb news. we've got lots more coming up, including kamala harris and donald trump. they're going to face face in their first presidential debate, aren't they, tom? >> they are indeed. and i'm delighted to say that right here on gb news, you will be able to watch that debate starting at 2 am. i'm gonna be up very late this evening. >> i'll be asleep. just joking. i'll be watching. >> well, this is the thing. >> well, this is the thing. >> i'm not here tomorrow on this show because i'm doing the overnight. but yes, if you're if you're able to if you're interested, do tune in 2 am. to 4 am. we'll be here. we'll be playing that debate in full reaction in full and analysis too. but we're going to get

good afternoon. britain has just gone 10 to 3. now get out the popcorn. get it ready. make sure your microwave is warming up because the race for the white house moves up a gear. yes, kamala harris and donald trump are going head to head tonight in their first presidential debate. >> it's like christmas morning, isn't it, for you. you can watch all the action live overnight here on gb news with america decides trump v harris starting at 2 am. with tom harwood your host. >> yes , i'll be staying up late, >> yes, i'll be staying up late, but someone who won't be staying up too late because he's in a different time zone is our us correspondent, stephen edgington. stephen, this is going to be a fascinating debate . going to be a fascinating debate. >> this is a crucial moment in the presidential election ahead of november 5th. >> you have to remember that kamala harris and donald trump, they've never debated, they've never actually met in person.

it's a really interesting fact. despite kamala harris being vice president for four years. so this is going to be a very interesting moment for both candidates. i think kamala harris really wants to display her policies on the national stage. many people don't know too much about her. they think she's a bit unfamiliar, whereas donald trump, he'll want to land some blows on kamala harris. she's had a pretty good summer with the dnc. she's had a bit of a boost in the polls. so this is really an opportunity for him to scrutinise her, to criticise her, perhaps in a way that she hasn't faced before. she's had a very light campaign in terms of scrutiny from the media. she hasn't done too many interviews, so this really is an opportunity for both candidates to lay some blows to set out their policies on the national stage. and i think it's one of the only times dunng think it's one of the only times during the presidential election where americans really are tuning in. they're really thinking about politics in a way that perhaps they wouldn't normally do . normally do. >> do that thing where they mute

the mics so that there's no chance of actual, you know, action. there's no there's no debate. they did that, didn't they, when it was biden . they, when it was biden. >> that's right. so the rules will stay the same. both candidates will not be able to interrupt each other while the other candidate is speaking . and other candidate is speaking. and people say they're speculating that this will help donald trump . that this will help donald trump. it certainly helped him in his debate with joe biden. it made him look a bit more presidential, a bit calmer, and kamala harris's team, they tried to change the rules in this debate. they wanted the mics to be on the entire time . and be on the entire time. and again, this is just speculation. but people predicted that the reason they wanted the mics to be on was so that kamala harris can be shown to be interrupted by donald trump, and she can kind of slap him for down that. she was going to sort of do a piece to camera. she was going to look into the camera and say, americans, many of you will have had this experience in various office meetings and so on, where your boss is just talking over your boss is just talking over you and, you know, this is what

donald trump does. he's a bully. so i think the rules will probably favour donald trump tonight. it will make him look a bit more calm whilst kamala harris is going to have to, you know, she's going to have to pull out all the stops here for her campaign. she's not seen as a great debater. she didn't do very well in the democratic primary debates in 2020. so this is a big for test her. >> and stephen. you're so right to say i mean, she's done. what is it? one interview. and in that interview she had to be there by the side of her vice presidential pick. she hasn't had a one on one sort of interrogation at all since she's been the nominee. >> she's done one major television interview . and if you television interview. and if you compare that to donald trump and his vice presidential nominee, jd vance, they've done, i believe , dozens of interviews believe, dozens of interviews with the media and with podcasts and so on. i think the reason for that is kamala harris does not perform well when she's off script , when she's asked script, when she's asked questions by the press, let's say when she's going onto air force two and so on. she doesn't seem to be very articulate. sometimes she can kind of wander

off with her language, and those clips are quite brutal for the donald trump campaign to use in his messaging. so she's not very well when she's off script. when she's on script, when she's reading from a speech and so on. she can be pretty charismatic. donald trump, on the other hand, he's very relaxed about doing media interviews. he does generally. >> stephen, we're going to we're going to be watching it. we're going to be watching it. we're going to be watching it very late, very late over here. but we'll speak to you later. stephen. thank you very much indeed. >> yes. and of course, you can watch all the action live overnight right here on gb news. the official debate broadcasting on british television. this is the place to watch it. america decides trump versus harris. that starts at the ungodly hour of 2 am. with tom, your host. >> that's it from us. well, until 2 am. for tom. i'll be back i'll be with emma webb as my co—host while

away .

away. >> everybody, good afternoon to you. it's 3 pm. and welcome to the martin daubney show. we're on gb news broadcasting live from the heart of westminster all across the uk on today's show. as you can see, these are live shots now of the house of commons, where mps have been debating whether or not to scrap winter fuel payments for pensioners. as you can see there exiting chamber, they're about to vote and we're expecting the results soon and we'll bring you those results live as they happen. those results live as they happen . and around 200 prisoners happen. and around 200 prisoners are being released early from british jails by the labour government today. but probation officers are warning reoffending is inevitable and domestic violence charities say survivors will have sleepless nights, will be live at hmp wandsworth to count the lags on the way out as they enjoy champagne and marijuana cigarettes. and at 5 pm. today, another tory leadership hopeful will be knocked out of the race, leaving the final four to fight it out. can any of the remaining

hopefuls get the tories back on tracks